Ukraine

[Stairway 2 7]

I see no need for Scotland to bother with nuclear? Wind is far cheaper and we now have more than we use?


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You need another source for when it's dark and not windy, as storage of the electricity gained isn't there yet

[Ozyhibby]

You need another source for when it's dark and not windy, as storage of the electricity gained isn't there yet

Tidal and hydro can provide more certain sources. I just can’t see why Scotland would need a nuclear plant when we have so much renewable power available? We are not even close to realising the potential we have.
Nuclear is def a solution for other countries, just don’t see it for Scotland. It’s far too expensive.
I’m not against nuclear. It’s far safer than coal or gas. I just don’t see the economic case for it here.


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[Stairway 2 7]

We generate 100% but only 56% of energy consumed in Scotland is renewable. Hopefully one day but I suppose alot of heating and transport isn't renewable power just now

From full fact
The Scottish National Party (SNP) leader and Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has claimed that almost all electricity used in Scotland is from renewable sources. This is not correct.

This might refer to the fact that the Scottish Government estimates that in 2020, Scotland produced 32,063 gigawatt hours (GWh) of renewable electricity, equivalent to around 97% of its entire electricity consumption. But this doesn’t mean that Scotland itself used all this electricity.

Scotland actually produces more electricity than it uses, including a substantial amount from fossil fuels and nuclear energy. In 2019, renewables accounted for 61% of electricity generated in Scotland, nuclear 25%, and gas and oil 13%.

Suggesting that near 100% of electricity used in Scotland is from renewable sources would be true if Scotland used all its renewable electricity and only exported non-renewable.

But that’s not how electricity systems work.

In fact, the Scottish Government estimates that, in 2020, 56% of the electricity consumed in Scotland came from renewable sources, 30% from nuclear and 13% from fossil fuels.

Renewables still account for far more of Scotland’s electricity consumption than in England and Wales.

But to suggest it's almost 100% is misleading.

The Scottish Government told Full Fact the First Minister was referring to Scotland’s gross electricity consumption and it was not her intention to suggest otherwise.

A Scottish Government spokesperson said: “Scotland has a hugely positive story to tell in renewables, which provided the equivalent of 96% of Scotland’s gross electricity consumption in 2020."

[hibsbollah]

I’ve just been watching RT news. Russian speaking pensioners and kids getting on busses escaping to Russia. NATO head Stoltenberg speech sounding hawkish; saying ‘if Russia wants less NATO troops on the border they will get more NATO troops on the border’. Fascinating how the networks are covering it differently.

[StevieC]

I’ve just been watching RT news. Russian speaking pensioners and kids getting on busses escaping to Russia.

These clips are totally staged. During the “covert” invasion of 2014 RT had a film crew going round various Ukrainian cities interviewing “locals” talking about the fascist government and the oppression of Russian speakers. It was the same actors popping up in the various clips, and their identities were traced back to Russia

[Hibrandenburg]

These clips are totally staged. During the “covert” invasion of 2014 RT had a film crew going round various Ukrainian cities interviewing “locals” talking about the fascist government and the oppression of Russian speakers. It was the same actors popping up in the various clips, and their identities were traced back to Russia

Surely wester news stations can either confirm or deny this if it's happening Ukraine.

[hibsbollah]

These clips are totally staged.

Really? All of them? Surely since the Russians ARE running these busses out, and there ARE a Russian speaking, ethnically Russian minority, however big or small you may think they are, feel safer in the motherland than in Ukraine, it follows that SOME people must be taking advantage of them, whether or not you believe it’s all a propaganda exercise?

[StevieC]

Really? All of them? Surely since the Russians ARE running these busses out, and there ARE a Russian speaking, ethnically Russian minority, however big or small you may think they are, feel safer in the motherland than in Ukraine, it follows that SOME people must be taking advantage of them, whether or not you believe it’s all a propaganda exercise?

Yes, really. May not have been 100%, but enough of them were staged (and found out as such) that you can’t trust anything that RT claims to be true.
I have friends in quite a few cities in Ukraine, most of them Russian speaking, some of them ethnic Russians .. NONE of them are jumping on buses to go to the Motherland! To claim that there is a convoy of buses moving huge swathes of people from Donbas to Russia is beyond ridiculous. What is the difference between ethnic Russians in Donbas and ethnic Russians in Dnipro? Why would one feel threatened any more than the other???

Russia said the same thing about protecting Russians when they invaded Georgia.

[Rumble de Thump]

RT is owned by the Russian Government. It's basically their main vehicle of propaganda. The idea that people in Ukraine who speak Russian must be pro-Ruasian is so weird. Everyone in Ukraine speaks Russian. It was formally part of the USSR, controlled by Moscow. How many countries around the world have people living in them who speak English? How many of those people favour England over their own country simply because they speak the language? Probably zero.

[Hibrandenburg]

RT is owned by the Russian Government. It's basically their main vehicle of propaganda. The idea that people in Ukraine who speak Russian must be pro-Ruasian is so weird. Everyone in Ukraine speaks Russian. It was formally part of the USSR, controlled by Moscow. How many countries around the world have people living in them who speak English? How many of those people favour England over their own country? Probably zero.

Erm...........ah forget it.

[Ozyhibby]

Erm...........ah forget it.

[emoji23]


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[StevieC]

As it's the Ukraine thread .. here's something Ukraine related :wink:

February Update (https://mailchi.mp/709183fc3280/dnipro-kids-february-update?e=9aafe80c2b)

[Rumble de Thump]

Erm...........ah forget it.

...

[Stairway 2 7]

Is it mind games or do the expect invasion

BNO News
@BNONews
·
10h
BREAKING: British Prime Minister Boris Johnson says Russia is planning "the biggest war in Europe since 1945" - BBC



BREAKING: All signs suggest Russia plans 'full-fledged' attack on Ukraine: NATO chief -
@AFP

US President Biden says he believes Russian forces will invade Ukraine in the coming days. States that he believes the capital Kyiv will be targeted

[Stairway 2 7]

Ukrainian military has updated the death toll from today's fighting to 2 soldiers dead, 4 wounded, after artillery fire hit their position. Heavy fighting reported by both sides along the contact line.
https://facebook.com/pressjfo.news/

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Russia bussing out women and kids is pure propaganda for their own viewing public.

They are being bussed out because Ukrainian terrorists are planning attacks in these areas and it's for their own protection.

The reality is no such attack will happen. What will and is happening is that the local ethnic Russan militias (think UVF or Real IRA but with official government support) will stage an attack or a 'false flag' and bingo, Russia can't stand back any longer!

A handful of busses (out of literally hundreds of thousands of ethnic Russians in the contested area) for the cameras, got to feel for the kids who are just being used by the Russian state.

[lapsedhibee]

Is it mind games or do the expect invasion

BNO News
@BNONews
·
10h
BREAKING: British Prime Minister Boris Johnson says Russia is planning "the biggest war in Europe since 1945" - BBC

Big Dog talking up the threat of a major war as part of operation Save Big Dog.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Big Dog talking up the threat of a major war as part of operation Save Big Dog.

Very true. If war breaks out then we must have continuity at the top no matter what any party gate investigations might throw up.

What a truly miserable time the world is having right now.

[Ozyhibby]

.

The reality is no such attack will happen. What will and is happening is that the local ethnic Russan militias (think UVF or Real IRA but with official government support)

Exactly like the UVF then. [emoji6]


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[Ozyhibby]

Very true. If war breaks out then we must have continuity at the top no matter what any party gate investigations might throw up.

What a truly miserable time the world is having right now.

Like saying we should have kept Butcher when we got relegated because continuity is important at times of crisis.[emoji849]


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[Mikey]

I wonder if Xi Jinping has asked Putin to hold off until his showpiece event is out of the way before going in. It seems odd that he hasn't done so yet.

[StevieC]

Russia bussing out women and kids is pure propaganda for their own viewing public.

They are being bussed out because Ukrainian terrorists are planning attacks in these areas and it's for their own protection.

The reality is no such attack will happen. What will and is happening is that the local ethnic Russan militias (think UVF or Real IRA but with official government support) will stage an attack or a 'false flag' and bingo, Russia can't stand back any longer!

A handful of busses (out of literally hundreds of thousands of ethnic Russians in the contested area) for the cameras, got to feel for the kids who are just being used by the Russian state.

Spot on.

Except they won’t be bussed any further than a couple of streets away from the staged RT camera crew, and then let off to make their own way home with a few extra rubbles in their pockets.

[StevieC]

I wonder if Xi Jinping has asked Putin to hold off until his showpiece event is out of the way before going in. It seems odd that he hasn't done so yet.

Funnily enough, Putin had to wait until the Sochi Winter Olympics had finished before he could start sending troops into Ukraine back in 2014.

[Just Alf]

Straw clutching I know, if Putin took everyone home after the 'training manoeuvres' then he'd be able to show that NATO/the West were clearly over exaggerating, had an agenda and were jumping the gun.

Not the scenario I see playing out unfortunately.

[Kato]

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-branded-putin-apologist-blaming-eu-ukraine-war-6338

This has aged well. Our, now, Prime Minister spreading Putin's propaganda.

History won't be kind when the amount of Russian money in the Tory Party and in The City is revealed.

[Bostonhibby]

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/boris-johnson-branded-putin-apologist-blaming-eu-ukraine-war-6338

This has aged well. Our, now, Prime Minister spreading Putin's propaganda.

History won't be kind when the amount of Russian money in the Tory Party and in The City is revealed.

We are talking about a guy who gave a knighthood to a KGB generals son not long after he had used the guys villa for a holiday, doubt our current leader or those linked to him will be too bothered, they're thick skinned and tend to get away with worse.

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[hibsbollah]

Spot on.

Except they won’t be bussed any further than a couple of streets away from the staged RT camera crew, and then let off to make their own way home with a few extra rubbles in their pockets.

I think you are overplaying your hand with some of this chat Stevie. Read this article.

‘All you can do is cry’: Donbas evacuees face uncertain future in Russia | Ukraine | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/20/donbas-ukraine-evacuees-face-uncertain-future-in-russia)


"But for the women, children, and others who are being evacuated, the result is undeniably real and traumatic, as they arrive by the hundreds in a neighbouring region that appears unprepared for the tide of evacuees".

[StevieC]

I think you are overplaying your hand with some of this chat Stevie. Read this article.

‘All you can do is cry’: Donbas evacuees face uncertain future in Russia | Ukraine | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/20/donbas-ukraine-evacuees-face-uncertain-future-in-russia)


"But for the women, children, and others who are being evacuated, the result is undeniably real and traumatic, as they arrive by the hundreds in a neighbouring region that appears unprepared for the tide of evacuees".

I read the article, and very little in it suggests I am overplaying my hand .. in fact a lot of it confirms what I am saying.

The article even says that there is evidence that the sudden evacuations were planned.

It also talks of Russian propaganda telling people close to the military borders that a Ukrainian attack is imminent, causing them to panic and flee their homes. Sounds like the pretext for “false flag” attacks from Russian separatists to create an excuse for a full on Russian invasion.

Also interesting that there are no photos of the hundreds that are fleeing, or the alleged tent city that is overflowing at the Russian border.

If you think that Ukrainian troops, that have spent the last 7 years bravely trying to halt Russian advances, are now going to do a major push into Donbas whilst Russia has amassed substantial numbers of troops on the borders .. then I’m not convinced you’ve thought this one through properly.
You are welcome to believe whatever you want though, and believe the same propaganda the Russians are putting out, but don’t accuse me of not being knowledgeable of the RT tricks, the staged TV interviews, the Russian propaganda machine and what has been going on in Ukraine for the past 8 years.

[hibsbollah]

I read the article, and very little in it suggests I am overplaying my hand .. in fact a lot of it confirms what I am saying.

The article even says that there is evidence that the sudden evacuations were planned.

It also talks of Russian propaganda telling people close to the military borders that a Ukrainian attack is imminent, causing them to panic and flee their homes. Sounds like the pretext for “false flag” attacks from Russian separatists to create an excuse for a full on Russian invasion.

Also interesting that there are no photos of the hundreds that are fleeing, or the alleged tent city that is overflowing at the Russian border.

If you think that Ukrainian troops, that have spent the last 7 years bravely trying to halt Russian advances, are now going to do a major push into Donbas whilst Russia has amassed substantial numbers of troops on the borders .. then I’m not convinced you’ve thought this one through properly.
You are welcome to believe whatever you want though, and believe the same propaganda the Russians are putting out, but don’t accuse me of not being knowledgeable of the RT tricks, the staged TV interviews, the Russian propaganda machine and what has been going on in Ukraine for the past 8 years.

Let’s be clear about what was said. You said first that ALL the evacuations of Russian civilians were staged, then you qualified that in the next sentence to ‘maybe not 100%, but…’. (Not sure what you meant by that). A few posts later you are saying something about those families being bussed a few hundred yards before leaving with some roubles in their pockets…Which is fairly extreme and sounds remarkably heartless to be honest.

The Guardian, who has been toeing a broadly pro Western anti Russian stance all the way through this, has pointed out that there is genuine refugees from these areas, heartache, families torn apart etc. You seem to be desperate to not engage with the reality that there does exist a minority in Eastern Ukraine that don’t see everything in the same way as you and your mates do, and instead be more happy to chuck accusations around that I’m somehow falling for Russian propaganda because I’m seeing footage and interviews from the western media and asking questions about those stories. Personally I’m of the view that Putin is taking advantage of these people for propaganda purposes but you are on very shaky ground by suggesting it isn’t happening or that minority is less deserving of sympathy than any other affected civilian.

[WhileTheChief..]

I read the article, and very little in it suggests I am overplaying my hand .. in fact a lot of it confirms what I am saying.

The article even says that there is evidence that the sudden evacuations were planned.

It also talks of Russian propaganda telling people close to the military borders that a Ukrainian attack is imminent, causing them to panic and flee their homes. Sounds like the pretext for “false flag” attacks from Russian separatists to create an excuse for a full on Russian invasion.

Also interesting that there are no photos of the hundreds that are fleeing, or the alleged tent city that is overflowing at the Russian border.

If you think that Ukrainian troops, that have spent the last 7 years bravely trying to halt Russian advances, are now going to do a major push into Donbas whilst Russia has amassed substantial numbers of troops on the borders .. then I’m not convinced you’ve thought this one through properly.
You are welcome to believe whatever you want though, and believe the same propaganda the Russians are putting out, but don’t accuse me of not being knowledgeable of the RT tricks, the staged TV interviews, the Russian propaganda machine and what has been going on in Ukraine for the past 8 years.

Keep the info coming, it’s greatly appreciated.

[LunasBoots]

Five killes in Rostov, Russia claim they where Ukrainian invaders, more Russian propaganda by the sounds of it. Also have basically said Liz Truss is useless.

[StevieC]

Let’s be clear about what was said. You said first that ALL the evacuations of Russian civilians were staged, then you qualified that in the next sentence to ‘maybe not 100%, but…’. (Not sure what you meant by that). A few posts later you are saying something about those families being bussed a few hundred yards before leaving with some roubles in their pockets…Which is fairly extreme and sounds remarkably heartless to be honest.

The Guardian, who has been toeing a broadly pro Western anti Russian stance all the way through this, has pointed out that there is genuine refugees from these areas, heartache, families torn apart etc. You seem to be desperate to not engage with the reality that there does exist a minority in Eastern Ukraine that don’t see everything in the same way as you and your mates do, and instead be more happy to chuck accusations around that I’m somehow falling for Russian propaganda because I’m seeing footage and interviews from the western media and asking questions about those stories. Personally I’m of the view that Putin is taking advantage of these people for propaganda purposes but you are on very shaky ground by suggesting it isn’t happening or that minority is less deserving of sympathy than any other affected civilian.

Deary me.
I never said all RT footage was staged, I said “These clips”. Maybe I should have expanded that a little and said these “type of” clips are staged .. I’m pretty sure that you didn’t really think that I meant ALL of RT footage was staged .. seems like you are going for point scoring regarding my wording, but I could be wrong.

If RT didn’t have form for staging this sort of thing, then yes my comments would be totally heartless. But they do have form, so neither of us could be sure that the people on that bus weren’t dropped off 200 yards down the road. You are accusing me of being heartless based on your belief that it couldn’t in any way have been a staged clip, I’m simply saying that due to past experiences I have my doubts that the clip is genuine.

And regarding your accusation of me being heartless, I would point out that I have spent time with many families that have lost loved ones during the conflict. Spent time with children that have lost their fathers in the areas that are being discussed. Not just a few minutes I might add, but full days with them where they have talked about their loss, shown me photos, talked of how they’ve coped and their feelings towards those (from both sides) that have been involved in the fighting. If you think I can do this and be unaffected (or heartless) then that is disappointing. There is a museum that has opened up in Dnipro that is dedicated to the troubles, and the fallen, and I can tell you that it is a heart wrenching experience.

You mention the Guardian again, but I feel that you have been quite selective in what you have chosen from the article. There are several paragraphs in it that contradict what you are claiming it does. It questions the validity of the claims of mass evacuations, and also questions whether if there are evacuations that they are a direct result of Russian propaganda.

I’ve been to Donetsk. I’ve met evacuees from the area from 2014. I’ve met soldiers that have fought on the front line. I’ve met mothers and children that have lost loved ones to the fighting. I’ve met (and become friends with) ethnic Russians in Dnipro, Kyiv, Crimea .. all with different views, that I have sat and listened to. I’ve seen Ukrainian TV. I’ve seen Russian TV. I’ve seen staged news clips. I’ve seen blatant lies promoted as the truth. I’ve seen bias from both sides.
Whilst my views might not be the same as everyone, and I am happy to accept that I’m not always right, the one thing I don’t think I can be accused of is not being knowledgeable on what I’m talking about.

[hibsbollah]

Deary me.
I never said all RT footage was staged, I said “These clips”. Maybe I should have expanded that a little and said these “type of” clips are staged .. I’m pretty sure that you didn’t really think that I meant ALL of RT footage was staged .. seems like you are going for point scoring regarding my wording, but I could be wrong.

If RT didn’t have form for staging this sort of thing, then yes my comments would be totally heartless. But they do have form, so neither of us could be sure that the people on that bus weren’t dropped off 200 yards down the road. You are accusing me of being heartless based on your belief that it couldn’t in any way have been a staged clip, I’m simply saying that due to past experiences I have my doubts that the clip is genuine.

And regarding your accusation of me being heartless, I would point out that I have spent time with many families that have lost loved ones during the conflict. Spent time with children that have lost their fathers in the areas that are being discussed. Not just a few minutes I might add, but full days with them where they have talked about their loss, shown me photos, talked of how they’ve coped and their feelings towards those (from both sides) that have been involved in the fighting. If you think I can do this and be unaffected (or heartless) then that is disappointing. There is a museum that has opened up in Dnipro that is dedicated to the troubles, and the fallen, and I can tell you that it is a heart wrenching experience.

You mention the Guardian again, but I feel that you have been quite selective in what you have chosen from the article. There are several paragraphs in it that contradict what you are claiming it does. It questions the validity of the claims of mass evacuations, and also questions whether if there are evacuations that they are a direct result of Russian propaganda.

I’ve been to Donetsk. I’ve met evacuees from the area from 2014. I’ve met soldiers that have fought on the front line. I’ve met mothers and children that have lost loved ones to the fighting. I’ve met (and become friends with) ethnic Russians in Dnipro, Kyiv, Crimea .. all with different views, that I have sat and listened to. I’ve seen Ukrainian TV. I’ve seen Russian TV. I’ve seen staged news clips. I’ve seen blatant lies promoted as the truth. I’ve seen bias from both sides.
Whilst my views might not be the same as everyone, and I am happy to accept that I’m not always right, the one thing I don’t think I can be accused of is not being knowledgeable on what I’m talking about.

Some of that is fair, some of it isn’t. If you’re going to make cracks about what appear to be refugees fleeing a war zone doing so for ‘a few roubles’, I don’t think you can act surprised when someone pulls you up about sounding heartless. I don’t think you can make that judgement just because you’ve been to the country-you simply don’t know those peoples individual situations. I’ve read your posts with interest and you are clearly well informed. And I’m well aware RT is biased, i just find it interesting to see what the ‘other side’ is being told.

[StevieC]

Some of that is fair, some of it isn’t. If you’re going to make cracks about what appear to be refugees fleeing a war zone doing so for ‘a few roubles’, I don’t think you can act surprised when someone pulls you up about sounding heartless.

That’s not what I said at all, although I think you know that.

I was stating that, based on previous form, there is a good chance that these were not refugees fleeing the Donbas but paid actors playing out a staged RT clip. I don’t see how flagging this up is heartless, it’s simply providing information to anyone that might not be as versed in Russian/RT propaganda tactics.

[hibsbollah]

That’s not what I said at all, although I think you know that.

I was stating that, based on previous form, there is a good chance that these were not refugees fleeing the Donbas but paid actors playing out a staged RT clip. I don’t see how flagging this up is heartless, it’s simply providing information to anyone that might not be as versed in Russian/RT propaganda tactics.

:dunno: What you actually said is fairly easy for anyone to read, it was yesterday at 2pm and it’s at the at top of this page so I’m not going to get into a to and fro about it.

[Paul1642]

“ The Kremlin says President Putin has decided to recognise the independence of two breakaway areas of Ukraine controlled by Russian-backed separatists.

A Kremlin statement said Putin had told the French and German leaders he intended to sign a decree recognising the Donetsk and Luhansk areas as independent states.”


Certainly doesn’t help matters.

[Stairway 2 7]

The Kyiv Independent@KyivIndependent·3m⚡️

Russian stock exchange drops 14-17% within hours. The worst decline since 2008.

Russia is about to recognize Kremlin-occupied regions as independent states

[Stairway 2 7]

“ The Kremlin says President Putin has decided to recognise the independence of two breakaway areas of Ukraine controlled by Russian-backed separatists.

A Kremlin statement said Putin had told the French and German leaders he intended to sign a decree recognising the Donetsk and Luhansk areas as independent states.”


Certainly doesn’t help matters.
Yup


Ragıp Soylu
@ragipsoylu
· 9m
Russian communist party chief Zyuganov says Russia may use its military to protect DPR and LPR after the recognition of their independence

[Hibrandenburg]

He's ramblings address to the nation sounds unhinged.

[hibsbollah]

He's ramblings address to the nation sounds unhinged.

The sky translator definitely struggling to keep up with him, it’s stream of consciousness stuff.

[Keith_M]

He's ramblings address to the nation sounds unhinged.


I'm beginning to think he's started to lose his mind, and everybody else is going to suffer.

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm beginning to think he's started to lose his mind, and everybody else is going to suffer.

:agree:

Another tick in the (he who cannot be named) box. Rambling monologues about the illegitimacy of historical borders.

[WhileTheChief..]

I'm beginning to think he's started to lose his mind, and everybody else is going to suffer.

Similar to Stalin and Hitler.

It's the Russian people that have suffered the most under the thug. That's all he is.

[Ozyhibby]

Surely it’s fine to partition off part of a neighbouring country? Asking for an Irish friend.[emoji6]


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[Bostonhibby]

Surely it’s fine to partition off part of a neighbouring country? Asking for an Irish friend.[emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAs in annexing the Sudetenland?

Asking for an imaginary ethnic German friend.

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[hibsbollah]

Putin’s breaking news there ‘I have never said this before…’ was that Russia asked to join NATO in the early 90s but was rebuffed by the Americans, the subtext being ‘you guys never wanted peace with us’.

The Pozner lecture someone posted on page 4 of this thread made that exact claim.

[Lendo]

If the West roll over and allow this then it’s clear that it won’t stop with eastern Ukraine. Will only be a matter of time before Estonia, Latvia and Lithuanian are swallowed up to create a land bridge to Kaliningrad.

This will end up like the 1930’s all over again.

[Ozyhibby]

Putin’s breaking news there ‘I have never said this before…’ was that Russia asked to join NATO in the early 90s but was rebuffed by the Americans, the subtext being ‘you guys never wanted peace with us’.

The Pozner lecture someone posted on page 4 of this thread made that exact claim.

It’s true but they are not a democracy so it would not have worked.


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[hibsbollah]

It’s true but they are not a democracy so it would not have worked.


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Is democratic Government a precondition of NATO membership? Genuine question, I’ve no idea. Seems to preclude Turkey who is a member.

[Ozyhibby]

Is democratic Government a precondition of NATO membership? Genuine question, I’ve no idea. Seems to preclude Turkey who is a member.

I think Turkey were a lot more democratic until recently. It’s def problematic now. Not sure if it’s a pre-requisite but all members so far are. I think.


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[Keith_M]

:dunno: What you actually said is fairly easy for anyone to read, it was yesterday at 2pm and it’s at the at top of this page so I’m not going to get into a to and fro about it.


Sorry, mate, but you're not coming out of this very well.

To accuse Stevie, of all people, of being heartless is pretty bad on it's own but the fact that you won't even listen to the reasoning behind what he wrote and seem determined to push your view, then sorry, I just can't understand that at all.

[Lendo]

Is democratic Government a precondition of NATO membership? Genuine question, I’ve no idea. Seems to preclude Turkey who is a member.

Everyone seems to be quite happy to turn the other cheek to Turkey’s slide in to authoritarianism as they have acted a road block for refugees fleeing Syria.

[Hibrandenburg]

If the West roll over and allow this then it’s clear that it won’t stop with eastern Ukraine. Will only be a matter of time before Estonia, Latvia and Lithuanian are swallowed up to create a land bridge to Kaliningrad.

This will end up like the 1930’s all over again.

Unlikely, Ukraine might be no match for Russia but with a modern army they would inflict heavy casualties. Picking a full on conflict with NATO would be suicide for Putin, UNLESS another military superpower somehow got involved.

[hibsbollah]

Sorry, mate, but you're not coming out of this very well.

To accuse Stevie, of all people, of being heartless is pretty bad on it's own but the fact that you won't even listen to the reasoning behind what he wrote and seem determined to push your view, then sorry, I just can't understand that at all.

Well, fair enough. I thought me and Stevie were having a robust exchange of ideas. If I’ve offended anyone or gone too far I apologise, it wasn’t my intention and I’m aware of the good work Stevie has done and continues to do.

[LunasBoots]

Putin and Russia recognise Donetsk and Luhansk as independent furthering the chances of war.

[Stairway 2 7]

Soon Russia will invade annexed parts of Ukraine, to protect itself against Ukraine..

[Stairway 2 7]

Should have been in place years ago

Natasha Bertrand
@NatashaBertrand
·
7m
Just in from Psaki: “President Biden will soon issue an Executive Order that will prohibit new investment, trade, and financing by U.S. persons to, from, or in the so-called DNR and LNR regions of Ukraine

[Stairway 2 7]

All very depressing

max seddon
@maxseddon
They cut to the signing ceremony so fast I didn't have time to tweet Putin's final message – that Ukraine was behind the violence in the Donbas and would be held responsible for "ensuing bloodshed."

This is only the beginning. The speech made it clear: war's on the table

James Forsyth
@JGForsyth
·
1h
The two breakaway republics, which Putin has just unilaterally recognised, only control about a third of the territory they claim which raises an obvious question about what comes next

[Ozyhibby]

Should have been in place years ago

Natasha Bertrand
@NatashaBertrand
·
7m
Just in from Psaki: “President Biden will soon issue an Executive Order that will prohibit new investment, trade, and financing by U.S. persons to, from, or in the so-called DNR and LNR regions of Ukraine

Wooooo, scary. If that’s the West’s response then I think Putin will be congratulating himself on a good day’s work.


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[WhileTheChief..]

Hopefully the USA become fully engaged or it most definitely will only be the beginning.

Putin only recognises strength. He just laughs off anyone who talks with him, he can’t be taken at his word in the slightest.

Got to hear more from Biden soon.

[Pretty Boy]

Reading the contents of that speech by Putin it seems his territorial ambitions don't start and end with Ukraine. I think that's always been fairly well known but this is an undoubted escalation both in terms of rhetoric and action.

The likes of Estonia and Lithuania will be pretty glad of their ties with Europe and Nato tonight. I daresay a few others will be seeking similar.

[WhileTheChief..]

It would be nice if the Chinese spoke out and condemned Russia’s actions. Show a bit of solidarity around the world.

[Smartie]

Reading the contents of that speech by Putin it seems his territorial ambitions don't start and end with Ukraine. I think that's always been fairly well known but this is an undoubted escalation both in terms of rhetoric and action.

The likes of Estonia and Lithuania will be pretty glad of their ties with Europe and Nato tonight. I daresay a few others will be seeking similar.

I expect the likes of Estonia and Lithuania will be particularly anxious about the strength of those ties and what they actually mean tonight.

[Stairway 2 7]

Conflict News
@Conflicts
BREAKING: President Putin orders peacekeeping operation in eastern Ukraine's two breakaway regions, the DNR & LNR

[Ozyhibby]

Lead story on BBC news at Ten was about no longer having to self isolate.[emoji849]


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[hibsbollah]

Lead story on BBC news at Ten was about no longer having to self isolate.[emoji849]


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Weird. Theyve had 4 hours to digest that speech. But instead we have over half the programme already on masks, which no-one in england is doing anyway.

[Ozyhibby]

Weird. Theyve had 4 hours to digest that speech. But instead we have over half the programme already on masks, which no-one in england is doing anyway.

16 minutes in and it’s not been mentioned. Mental.


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[Smartie]

Glad it wasn’t just me who found that weird…

[Stairway 2 7]

Putin's getting the band back together, back in the ussr

Ragıp Soylu
@ragipsoylu
· 10h
Meanwhile Putin and Aliyev will sign a declaration on allied cooperation tomorrow, making Azerbaijan and Russia bilateral allies

[Ozyhibby]

Uk sanctions to be announced after 6.30am Cobra meeting. We’ll see how serious we are then. My money is on a fudge.


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[hibsbollah]

Glad it wasn’t just me who found that weird…

To be fair, they spent a good five minutes on the situation in Ukraine. Before moving on to the high river levels in Tadcaster.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Glad it wasn’t just me who found that weird…

Sky have been all over this for a long time now with 2 reporters in Kiev, one in Moscow and a guy on the front line.
They are giving it full on comprehensive in-depth coverage which is in stark contrast to the BBC who have their man in Moscow and that's about it.
They don't have the resources or manpower to coverage it properly.

Sky news is now the UKs pre eminent and most trusted news source. The BEEB is fast becoming a British RT and I for one will no longer give it the time of day.

[StevieC]

Soon Russia will invade annexed parts of Ukraine, to protect itself against Ukraine..

Russian troops have been in the Donbas since 2014, and have regularly been involved in exchanges along the entrenched borders of the Donbas over the last 8 years. It seems a bit strange to me that they are talking of sending troops into an area where there are already troops. 🤔

I said a while back (and posted an image) that the area of interest for Russia is the land between Donbas and Crimea. It’s no surprise that they are now talking of moving their troops into the Donbas. Expect shelling to start around Mariupol, followed by Russian troops moving their “peace keeping” forces into Mariupol to prevent the Ukrainian terrorists from shelling ethnic Russians in the surrounding areas. 🙄

[Lendo]

I expect the likes of Estonia and Lithuania will be particularly anxious about the strength of those ties and what they actually mean tonight.

The ties exist right now that help protect the Baltic states but the big concern would be Trump being re-elected in 2024 and tearing NATO up or moving US troops out of Europe.

[LunasBoots]

UN meeting underway, lots of statements condemning Russias actions, sanctions being imposed across the board, what effect they will really have im not so sure. Lots of the countries around Russia expressing concern of Russia destabilising the whole area.

[Stairway 2 7]

Russian troops have been in the Donbas since 2014, and have regularly been involved in exchanges along the entrenched borders of the Donbas over the last 8 years. It seems a bit strange to me that they are talking of sending troops into an area where there are already troops. 🤔

I said a while back (and posted an image) that the area of interest for Russia is the land between Donbas and Crimea. It’s no surprise that they are now talking of moving their troops into the Donbas. Expect shelling to start around Mariupol, followed by Russian troops moving their “peace keeping” forces into Mariupol to prevent the Ukrainian terrorists from shelling ethnic Russians in the surrounding areas. 🙄
Like clockwork

Michael A. Horowitz
@michaelh992
Ukrainian Joint Forces Operation (JFO in charge of the line of contact in the Donbas) reports 81 ceasefire violations over the past 24 hours, as 07:00 today.

Two Ukrainian soldiers were killed, and 12 wounded

The Ukrainian JFO notably reports the use of a recon drone, likely a Russian Orlan-10, along the line the line of contact

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/kenyamissionun/status/1495963864004976645?s=21

Good response from Kenya.


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[StevieC]

Maybe this article will give a perspective of what has been happening along the military lines around Donbas. It’s been like this for the last few years, with regular incursions trying to prove Ukrainian lines and grab pockets of land.

With mass Russian troops heading into Donbas, as opposed to the smaller brigades they’ve been sending in for the last 8 years, there is the real possibility that these provocations will see advances that the Ukrainian army will be hard pressed to stop.

If there are any evacuees from Donbas it will be from the areas along this border that Russian troops will be intending to target with heavier artillery and tanks.

https://t.co/R4NYs2NuWe

[StevieC]

I’d like to add that Dnipro is just 120 miles from the nearest point of the front line and is a major military position that supplies troops and equipment, as well as treating the returning injured soldiers.

I’d be worried for my friends there if Russia started incursions into Ukraine and targeted strategic military positions.

[heretoday]

Putin is such a miserable little sod.
Why can't he just relax and enjoy life?

[hibsbollah]

https://twitter.com/kenyamissionun/status/1495963864004976645?s=21

Good response from Kenya.


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Yes it really is. A perspective you don’t really think about. Borders are often arbitrarily imposed when empires collapse, it doesn’t make them invalid years later. Nations have to work with what’s left behind.

[StevieC]

Putin is such a miserable little sod.
Why can't he just relax and enjoy life?

If you've watched the video "Putins Palace" by Navalny, some might say that he is very much enjoying life. 🤔

https://youtu.be/T_tFSWZXKN0

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/ava/status/1495929134685765632?s=21

Hard not to be impressed by this guy.


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[JimBHibees]

https://twitter.com/ava/status/1495929134685765632?s=21

Hard not to be impressed by this guy.


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Wow how impressive is that.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/feb/21/dumb-and-lazy-the-flawed-films-of-ukrainian-attacks-made-by-russias-fake-factory

Dumb and lazy’: the flawed films of Ukrainian ‘attacks’ made by Russia’s ‘fake factory’
Bellingcat founder Elliot Higgins says Russia’s propaganda films have got worse but that Russian viewers, especially the older generation, tend to believe fake TV footage

[AugustaHibs]

Will this put the scotland play off match at risk?

[StevieC]

Will this put the scotland play off match at risk?

Very much so.

The big issue at the moment is that the UK government have made it a no travel zone. That basically means that if you travel there is a good chance that any insurance will be null and void. I had been hoping to make a trip to Dnipro in April (not managed to go there since 2019) but I’m not willing to travel without insurance.

We were also hoping to schedule our Dnipro Kids Autumn trip to Kyiv around the date of the Scotland game, but again it’s all up in the air.

[Ozyhibby]

I doubt any UK teams will be travelling to Russia or Ukraine any time soon. I would say Champions league final will have to be moved.
Ukraine will be keen to play the game though so I would expect a neutral venue.


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[Pretty Boy]

Is it just me who thinks Putin looks really ill?

He was almost grey looking when talking last night, his eyes seemed to be struggling to focus (and this was a guy who had a stare that could freak anyone out) and he looked like he had to steady his hands a few times. His rhetoric around Ukraine was bordering on obsessive as well.

I'm sure there were reports last year he had either Parkinsons or an unspecified dementia and last night he certainly looked and sounded like a man who wasn't fully fighting fit, ironically enough I suppose.

[Smartie]

Is it just me who thinks Putin looks really ill?

He was almost grey looking when talking last night, his eyes seemed to be struggling to focus (and this was a guy who had a stare that could freak anyone out) and he looked like he had to steady his hands a few times. His rhetoric around Ukraine was bordering on obsessive as well.

I'm sure there were reports last year he had either Parkinsons or an unspecified dementia and last night he certainly looked and sounded like a man who wasn't fully fighting fit, ironically enough I suppose.

I wondered that.

He looks a long way away from the bare chested horseback guy of a few years ago.

It’s deeply concerning, given the power he wields. My brother is more knowledgable about geopolitical stuff than me and he says that Putin is actually the best of a bad bunch - generally a statesman who fronts a bunch of nutters. He looked deranged to me, and the translation of his words sounded likewise.

[Onceinawhile]

I doubt any UK teams will be travelling to Russia or Ukraine any time soon. I would say Champions league final will have to be moved.
Ukraine will be keen to play the game though so I would expect a neutral venue.


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Why would a one off game at hampden be moved to a neutral venue?

[Billy Whizz]

I doubt any UK teams will be travelling to Russia or Ukraine any time soon. I would say Champions league final will have to be moved.
Ukraine will be keen to play the game though so I would expect a neutral venue.


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Game is at Hampden, not sure a neutral venue is an option, game is only 4 weeks away too
Although at this tense time football isn’t really important

[Renfrew_Hibby]

The hold he has over the generals and his government ministers is terrifying.

The way he singled out that guy last night on a nationwide live broadcast. Forcing words out of his mouth that he clearly didn't agree with.

Poor guy was stuttering and shaking. The prospect of a novichok cocktail or a bullet in the head obviously playing on him.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Game is at Hampden, not sure a neutral venue is an option, game is only 4 weeks away too
Although at this tense time football isn’t really important

It would be a great opportunity for us to show our support for and unity with the peoples of Ukraine. A pre game display of solidarity by fans and players would be awesome.

[Sir David Gray]

It would be a great opportunity for us to show our support for and unity with the peoples of Ukraine. A pre game display of solidarity by fans and players would be awesome.

Maybe the fans might but I don't see UEFA being happy with the SFA picking a side in a political dispute to be honest.

[JeMeSouviens]

Germany withdrawing sign off on Nord Stream 2 - sehr gut.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Maybe the fans might but I don't see UEFA being happy with the SFA picking a side in a political dispute to be honest.

***** uefa

[JeMeSouviens]

https://twitter.com/ava/status/1495929134685765632?s=21

Hard not to be impressed by this guy.


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It's alright, can he do Doric though? :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

Germany withdrawing sign off on Nord Stream 2 - sehr gut.

It won't affect much now as not completed. They will still fund Putin by buying all their gas from him, in the same way as the UK won't go hard on Russian Money laundering in London

[JeMeSouviens]

It won't affect much now as not completed. They will still fund Putin by buying all their gas from him, in the same way as the UK won't go hard on Russian Money laundering in London

Maybe not, but the Germans have hummed and hawed about it for months. It's a real getting off the fence moment for them.

Very much doubt anything similar will come re the London Laundromat. Tories are awash with Russian cash.

[Smartie]

Maybe not, but the Germans have hummed and hawed about it for months. It's a real getting off the fence moment for them.

Very much doubt anything similar will come re the London Laundromat. Tories are awash with Russian cash.

“Boris” might have had a tough few months, but the next few could be about to get an awful lot tougher…

[Stairway 2 7]

“Boris” might have had a tough few months, but the next few could be about to get an awful lot tougher…

Fingers crossed

[Smartie]

Fingers crossed

Whilst I have no desire for the guy’s political life to be anything other than very difficult and unsuccessful, when the world is edging towards a situation as delicate as this one I’d rather our PM was in a position to “do the right thing” unimpeded by a tangled, compromised mess of money.

That’s before we get onto the shortage of brain cells etc.

[JeMeSouviens]

Whilst I have no desire for the guy’s political life to be anything other than very difficult and unsuccessful, when the world is edging towards a situation as delicate as this one I’d rather our PM was in a position to “do the right thing” unimpeded by a tangled, compromised mess of money.

That’s before we get onto the shortage of brain cells etc.

The argument that "we shouldn't change PM in a crisis" seems totally brain dead. We've got a Russian money compromised idiot who commands zero public trust, is mostly known for being a lying *****bag and treated like the clown he is by all international commentators. How could a change be worse??? :confused:

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1496091500186419206?s=21

Germany stepping up. Let’s see if Johnson willing to go after Russian assets in London? I have my doubts.


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[Smartie]

The argument that "we shouldn't change PM in a crisis" seems totally brain dead. We've got a Russian money compromised idiot who commands zero public trust, is mostly known for being a lying *****bag and treated like the clown he is by all international commentators. How could a change be worse??? :confused:

Not sure what exactly I've said that gave the impression I was making the argument that we shouldn't change PM in a crisis.

I'm concerned about us having the cretin we have for all the reasons you mention, and the point I was making was that I don't particularly relish any UK PM having a tough next few months during a delicate geopolitical situation, as much as I dislike him.

[lapsedhibee]

Whilst I have no desire for the guy’s political life to be anything other than very difficult and unsuccessful, when the world is edging towards a situation as delicate as this one I’d rather our PM was in a position to “do the right thing” unimpeded by a tangled, compromised mess of money.

Particularly when he's already not in a position to do the right thing on anything else, impeded by the tangled, compromised mess of his current position in the Tory party.

[Ozyhibby]

Embarrassing from Johnson. Three people being sanctioned and 5 banks. We are a disgrace.


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[WhileTheChief..]

I wondered that.

He looks a long way away from the bare chested horseback guy of a few years ago.

It’s deeply concerning, given the power he wields. My brother is more knowledgable about geopolitical stuff than me and he says that Putin is actually the best of a bad bunch - generally a statesman who fronts a bunch of nutters. He looked deranged to me, and the translation of his words sounded likewise.

I've often suspected he's just the frontman for the mafia types that actually control the country.

Hopefully this can be the beginning of the end for them and it leads the Russian people towards some kind of normal life.

[Bostonhibby]

Embarrassing from Johnson. Three people being sanctioned and 5 banks. We are a disgrace.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkGuessing he's had to navigate his way around all those Russian donors, especially the ones who've paid for various social interactions like games of tennis with him personally. From this we can possibly deduce that of the thousands who have bought residency here and who do business here there might be 8 where the nasties aren't compromised?

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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220222/542b4371c6d8593dd1b3b933665ff5e1.jpg

EU goes further than UK. What a shock. Germany cancels a gas pipeline while we ban a few banks.


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[hibsbollah]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220222/542b4371c6d8593dd1b3b933665ff5e1.jpg

EU goes further than UK. What a shock. Germany cancels a gas pipeline while we ban a few banks.


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Of all the European leaders, I think Macron has come out of this crisis very well, which is good news if you don't want to see a French far right anti immigrant Government being elected in May.

[heretoday]

The hold he has over the generals and his government ministers is terrifying.

The way he singled out that guy last night on a nationwide live broadcast. Forcing words out of his mouth that he clearly didn't agree with.

Poor guy was stuttering and shaking. The prospect of a novichok cocktail or a bullet in the head obviously playing on him.
They don't have the equivalent of our men in grey suits to drag him away.

[JeMeSouviens]

Not sure what exactly I've said that gave the impression I was making the argument that we shouldn't change PM in a crisis.

I'm concerned about us having the cretin we have for all the reasons you mention, and the point I was making was that I don't particularly relish any UK PM having a tough next few months during a delicate geopolitical situation, as much as I dislike him.

Oh yeah, sorry, I was in slightly tangential agreement - it's an argument you hear from Johnson-supportive-Tories. I didn't mean to imply you thought that.

[hibsbollah]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220222/542b4371c6d8593dd1b3b933665ff5e1.jpg

EU goes further than UK. What a shock. Germany cancels a gas pipeline while we ban a few banks.


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Id imagine most of the money that Russians have tied up in London is in property and in UK banks, not Russian banks, so that's definitely a pain-free sanction for the 'Up to Their Knees in Russian Roubles' Tory Party.

[Hibrandenburg]

Is it just me who thinks Putin looks really ill?

He was almost grey looking when talking last night, his eyes seemed to be struggling to focus (and this was a guy who had a stare that could freak anyone out) and he looked like he had to steady his hands a few times. His rhetoric around Ukraine was bordering on obsessive as well.

I'm sure there were reports last year he had either Parkinsons or an unspecified dementia and last night he certainly looked and sounded like a man who wasn't fully fighting fit, ironically enough I suppose.

My thoughts were similar last night. I thought he looked like he's swollen up and bloated. If he is terminally ill then that would be worrying as it would mean he possibly only has eyes on his historical legacy.

[WhileTheChief..]

Embarrassing from Johnson. Three people being sanctioned and 5 banks. We are a disgrace.


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Is it possible that it’s a little bit more nuanced than Boris just snapping his fingers?

If it’s decades worth of corruption you’re wanting undone it might take a little bit of time?

[Ozyhibby]

Is it possible that it’s a little bit more nuanced than Boris just snapping his fingers?

If it’s decades worth of corruption you’re wanting undone it might take a little bit of time?

Yes, that’s it.[emoji23]


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[WhileTheChief..]

The scheme set up to help wealthy Russians settle in the UK was established under Gordon Brown in 2008.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/60348046

[WhileTheChief..]

Yes, that’s it.[emoji23]


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??

[Ozyhibby]

??

Do you seriously think that is a solid response from Johnson? 5 banks and 3 individuals?


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220222/b96dadf7feb8465092080f8ea6ea7ed8.jpg

What it’s really all about for Johnson and his friends.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220222/ef34601c1e089ad457be4e259142e179.jpg


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[StevieC]

Why would a one off game at hampden be moved to a neutral venue?

My mistake, I think myself and Ozzy wrongly assumed he was talking about the September game in Ukraine.

[Ozyhibby]

My mistake, I think myself and Ozzy wrongly assumed he was talking about the September game in Ukraine.

Yip, I just wasn’t educated enough on it and assumed it was a two leg affair.


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[WhileTheChief..]

Do you seriously think that is a solid response from Johnson? 5 banks and 3 individuals?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think they are probably quite complex issues and I doubt very much if it's down to 1 man's decision.

I'd imagine an army of lawyers would need to be consulted first maybe?

Seems a weird thread to be having a pop at Boris on. Why not just keep it to the Tory hating one?

[Haymaker]

My thoughts were similar last night. I thought he looked like he's swollen up and bloated. If he is terminally ill then that would be worrying as it would mean he possibly only has eyes on his historical legacy.

:agree: he doesn't look well at all

[LunasBoots]

Johnson 'let's look like we are foing something while still accepting Russian dirty money'

Basically Johnson and Co have already accepted Russian blackmail.

[degenerated]

Whilst I have no desire for the guy’s political life to be anything other than very difficult and unsuccessful, when the world is edging towards a situation as delicate as this one I’d rather our PM was in a position to “do the right thing” unimpeded by a tangled, compromised mess of money.

That’s before we get onto the shortage of brain cells etc.Not so easy when the wife of Putin's pal, the ex Finance minister, has donated over 2 million quid to the Tory party in the past 5 years or so.

[Ozyhibby]

I think they are probably quite complex issues and I doubt very much if it's down to 1 man's decision.

I'd imagine an army of lawyers would need to be consulted first maybe?

Seems a weird thread to be having a pop at Boris on. Why not just keep it to the Tory hating one?

Are you saying that this is too complicated for Johnson to deal with?


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[WhileTheChief..]

Are you saying that this is too complicated for Johnson to deal with?


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No.

[speedy_gonzales]

Are you saying that this is too complicated for Johnson to deal with?


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Apparently a hair brush is too complicated for Johnson to deal with 🙄

[Stairway 2 7]

Deborah Haynes
@haynesdeborah
·
18m
BREAKING: Russia’s upper house of parliament has given President Vladimir Putin permission to use military force outside Russia,
@AP
reports. This could pave the way for a broader attack on Ukraine

[JeMeSouviens]

I think they are probably quite complex issues and I doubt very much if it's down to 1 man's decision.

I'd imagine an army of lawyers would need to be consulted first maybe?

Seems a weird thread to be having a pop at Boris on. Why not just keep it to the Tory hating one?

You are aware that:

- Johnson buried the Russia report of Parliament's Intelligence and Security Committee and has not implemented its recommendations
- Johnson blamed the EU for Russia's annexation of Crimea while campaigning for Brexit
- Johnson took a donation of £160K to play tennis with the wife of a former minister in Putin's government
- Johnson gave Evening Standard owner Evgeny Lebedev a peerage against the advice of the Lords' appointments committee due to his father being a KGB agent (Father originally bought the Standard, both Father and Son are Putin supporters).
- Johnson's Tories have taken over £3M of donations from wealthy Russians

?

It would be weird to ignore how heavily compromised Johnson is when it comes to Russia.

[Bostonhibby]

Yes, that’s it.[emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkTo be fair, now the weathers improving maybe he's got a few more £160,000 donations a match tennis games lined up with favoured Russians, so nuanced is the way forward.

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[Ozyhibby]

You are aware that:

- Johnson buried the Russia report of Parliament's Intelligence and Security Committee and has not implemented its recommendations
- Johnson blamed the EU for Russia's annexation of Crimea while campaigning for Brexit
- Johnson took a donation of £160K to play tennis with the wife of a former minister in Putin's government
- Johnson gave Evening Standard owner Evgeny Lebedev a peerage against the advice of the Lords' appointments committee due to his father being a KGB agent (Father originally bought the Standard, both Father and Son are Putin supporters).
- Johnson's Tories have taken over £3M of donations from wealthy Russians

?

It would be weird to ignore how heavily compromised Johnson is when it comes to Russia.

Yeh, but it’s nuanced and complicated so we just have to accept it.


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[Bostonhibby]

Yeh, but it’s nuanced and complicated so we just have to accept it.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkDo you think the same complicated nuances enabled Rees Mogg to dump all those Russian investments by chance as well?

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[WhileTheChief..]

You are aware that:

- Johnson buried the Russia report of Parliament's Intelligence and Security Committee and has not implemented its recommendations
- Johnson blamed the EU for Russia's annexation of Crimea while campaigning for Brexit
- Johnson took a donation of £160K to play tennis with the wife of a former minister in Putin's government
- Johnson gave Evening Standard owner Evgeny Lebedev a peerage against the advice of the Lords' appointments committee due to his father being a KGB agent (Father originally bought the Standard, both Father and Son are Putin supporters).
- Johnson's Tories have taken over £3M of donations from wealthy Russians

?

It would be weird to ignore how heavily compromised Johnson is when it comes to Russia.

Thanks, I didn't know any of that.

I'm not ignoring anything.

My point still stands, you all seem to think that these huge issues are decided on the whim of one man. I don't believe that's the case at all.

[WhileTheChief..]

Yeh, but it’s nuanced and complicated so we just have to accept it.


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I didn't say that.

[WhileTheChief..]

This thread is meant to be about Ukraine.

Why not out your Boris hating posts in the Tory hating thread?!

[Stairway 2 7]

Conflict News
@Conflicts
·
10m
MORE: Putin also recognizes the entirety of the Luhansk and Donetsk regions as being part of the LPR and DPR, including areas currently controlled by Ukraine

[CapitalGreen]

This thread is meant to be about Ukraine.

Why not out your Boris hating posts in the Tory hating thread?!

https://i.imgflip.com/1esuws.jpg

[Ozyhibby]

This thread is meant to be about Ukraine.

Why not out your Boris hating posts in the Tory hating thread?!

We’re talking about Johnson’s weak response to the crisis.


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[Bostonhibby]

This thread is meant to be about Ukraine.

Why not out your Boris hating posts in the Tory hating thread?!On this occasion our PM is pushing himself to the fore as a significant player in the campaign against the outrageous invasion of the sovereign state that is Ukraine so how he, or any head of state reacts in relation to the aggressor here is worthy of comment on a thread talking about the Invasion of Ukraine's territory.

Some of us will expect more, some less, and that's fine but it's reasonable to question where our government's loyalties might lie, and why.

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[LunasBoots]

This thread is meant to be about Ukraine.

Why not out your Boris hating posts in the Tory hating thread?!

Maybe he could release the Russia report and we will all be satisfied he no longer associates with rich Russians funding Putin in his Ukraine moves....

[Smartie]

This thread is meant to be about Ukraine.

Why not out your Boris hating posts in the Tory hating thread?!

As UK citizens we have every right to be concerned about the ability of our elected PM to do his job properly in relation to Ukraine, therefore discussion on Boris and his corruption is as relevant here as anywhere else.

We've got a few levels of sanction to go before we reach telling Putin's mum.

In all fairness - Boris' words so far have been acceptable on the subject, if not his actions.

[Kato]

Do you seriously think that is a solid response from Johnson? 5 banks and 3 individuals?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkImagine the assets and properties getting juggled right now. An incremental approach allows targets to prepare.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[WhileTheChief..]

We’re talking about Johnson’s weak response to the crisis.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Every news outlet is saying that was a first step with more to come though.

Just hang back a little and see what's next?

[grunt]

In all fairness - Boris' words so far have been acceptable on the subject, if not his actions.
His words are meaningless. Pay no attention to what he says - watch what he does.

[grunt]

Every news outlet is saying that was a first step with more to come though.
Just hang back a little and see what's next?
What's he waiting for, do you think? What's the rationale for doing so little?

[WhileTheChief..]

On this occasion our PM is pushing himself to the fore as a significant player in the campaign against the outrageous invasion of the sovereign state that is Ukraine so how he, or any head of state reacts in relation to the aggressor here is worthy of comment on a thread talking about the Invasion of Ukraine's territory.

Some of us will expect more, some less, and that's fine but it's reasonable to question where our government's loyalties might lie, and why.

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Is that even up for question?

Seriously, are you suggesting that Boris or the Tories are somehow in cahoots with Putin??

That's a major leap to be taking. The UK government will be working closely with the USA, EU, Nato etc etc.

To just finger point at Boris feels, as others might say, childish!!

[Bostonhibby]

Is that even up for question?

Seriously, are you suggesting that Boris or the Tories are somehow in cahoots with Putin??

That's a major leap to be taking. The UK government will be working closely with the USA, EU, Nato etc etc.

To just finger point at Boris feels, as others might say, childish!!Nope, I'm suggesting that, pre the invasion of Ukraine we were a bit uncomfortably close to Russian interests and resident Russians generally.

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[grunt]

Is that even up for question?

Seriously, are you suggesting that Boris or the Tories are somehow in cahoots with Putin??

That's a major leap to be taking. The UK government will be working closely with the USA, EU, Nato etc etc.

To just finger point at Boris feels, as others might say, childish!!You are aware that the Tory party has received more than £2m donations from Russian donors since the 2019 election?

Why did Johnson elevate Lebedev to the House of Lords against the advice of his committee?

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/10/21/boris-johnson-and-the-lebedevs-a-funny-peculiar-friendship/

[WhileTheChief..]

What's he waiting for, do you think? What's the rationale for doing so little?

When we're talking about such complex issues I've no idea.

If it was as easy as pushing a wee button that froze all Russian assets in the UK without any consequences for the UK I'd imagine it would be pushed.

What if though, for example, pushing that button resulted in the loss of 10,000 jobs.

That has to be taken into account.

It's easy for Sturgeon to say that Boris should do more. She doesn't need to worry about any consequences of the actions that we take.

Same with folk bumping their gums on here.

All I'm saying is wait and see.

[JeMeSouviens]

Is that even up for question?

Seriously, are you suggesting that Boris or the Tories are somehow in cahoots with Putin??

That's a major leap to be taking. The UK government will be working closely with the USA, EU, Nato etc etc.

To just finger point at Boris feels, as others might say, childish!!

Do you zip up the back? :confused: Of course it's up for question. All that money buys influence.

[WhileTheChief..]

You are aware that the Tory party has received more than £2m donations from Russian donors since the 2019 election?

Why did Johnson elevate Lebedev to the House of Lords against the advice of his committee?

https://bylinetimes.com/2021/10/21/boris-johnson-and-the-lebedevs-a-funny-peculiar-friendship/

Were you all aware of these things 2 weeks ago or have you literally read them today / yesterday?

Amazing how many experts there are today that we never heard a peep from over the last 10 years.

[grunt]

Seriously, are you suggesting that Boris or the Tories are somehow in cahoots with Putin??

That's a major leap to be taking.
Why is Johnson sitting on the Russia report?

[grunt]

Were you all aware of these things 2 weeks ago or have you literally read them today / yesterday?

Amazing how many experts there are today that we never heard a peep from over the last 10 years.
This has been discussed for years.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/isc-russia-report


The most controversial news was the revelation that there had been no examination of whether Russia had sought to undermine the 2016 EU referendum, despite plenty of evidence on disinformation during the Scottish independence referendum and in the public domain. The government’s reluctance to look into this doesn’t look set to change, but the gaping hole in who is charged with countering disinformation will need to be addressed.

[WhileTheChief..]

Why is Johnson sitting on the Russia report?

How can I possibly know the answer to that??!!!

[WhileTheChief..]

This has been discussed for years.

Cool. Guess I'm late to the party and missed all that chat.

I've barely seen Putin or Russia mentioned on this forum until this crisis.

[Paul1642]

What's he waiting for, do you think? What's the rationale for doing so little?

I guess if you go all in when Putin recognises a breakaway region, you have nothing left in reserve when tanks are rolling towards Kiev. The hope is still to prevent the war.

[grunt]

When we're talking about such complex issues I've no idea.

If it was as easy as pushing a wee button that froze all Russian assets in the UK without any consequences for the UK I'd imagine it would be pushed.

What if though, for example, pushing that button resulted in the loss of 10,000 jobs.

That has to be taken into account.

It's easy for Sturgeon to say that Boris should do more. She doesn't need to worry about any consequences of the actions that we take.

Same with folk bumping their gums on here.

All I'm saying is wait and see.He issued sanctions against just 3 Russians. Three people who had been subject to US sanction since 2018.

Loss of jobs??? If Johnson was concerned about the loss of UK jobs he wouldn't have "got Brexit done".

[LunasBoots]

Russian embassy staff to be evacuated from Ukraine for there safety and lives, Russian Parliament approves use of forces on foreign soil today aswell.

[grunt]

How can I possibly know the answer to that??!!!If you don't know why he's not releasing the ISC report on Russian intervention into UK politics (and the Brexit and Scottish referendum in particular) how can you possibly state this (below)?


Seriously, are you suggesting that Boris or the Tories are somehow in cahoots with Putin??

[WhileTheChief..]

He issued sanctions against just 3 Russians. Three people who had been subject to US sanction since 2018.

Loss of jobs??? If Johnson was concerned about the loss of UK jobs he wouldn't have "got Brexit done".

Ukraine to Boris to Brexit.

Indy?

[grunt]

Ukraine to Boris to Brexit.

Indy?
Have a listen to Stewart Hosie giving a press conference in July 2020 on the findings of the review by the Intelligence and Security Committee.

It's not a long video, just over 2 minutes.

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1285516903113527298?s=20&t=XSvfWSlrLdWZeYYG0-xG4Q

[Smartie]

When we're talking about such complex issues I've no idea.

If it was as easy as pushing a wee button that froze all Russian assets in the UK without any consequences for the UK I'd imagine it would be pushed.

What if though, for example, pushing that button resulted in the loss of 10,000 jobs.

That has to be taken into account.

It's easy for Sturgeon to say that Boris should do more. She doesn't need to worry about any consequences of the actions that we take.

Same with folk bumping their gums on here.

All I'm saying is wait and see.

Like all citizens of the UK, she has a right to be concerned that our PM might be forced to appease unacceptable actions on the world stage due to being compromised and corrupted by donations from people close to the head of a belligerent enemy.

That's before we get onto the FM stuff. Whilst it probably helps the cause of Scottish independence to have a hapless, hopeless, corrupted imbecile as PM it won't make her job as FM any easier in any regard.

[grunt]

Ukraine to Boris to Brexit.

I used Brexit as an example of why he would not be concerned about the loss of jobs and why this was not a reasonable excuse for failing to issue meaningful sanctions. But you know that.

[Paul1642]

I used Brexit as an example of why he would not be concerned about the loss of jobs and why this was not a reasonable excuse for failing to issue meaningful sanctions. But you know that.

He didn’t really have a choice on that matter. You can blame the majority of those who voted in the referendum rather than the PM.

[Paul1642]

When we're talking about such complex issues I've no idea.

If it was as easy as pushing a wee button that froze all Russian assets in the UK without any consequences for the UK I'd imagine it would be pushed.

What if though, for example, pushing that button resulted in the loss of 10,000 jobs.

That has to be taken into account.

It's easy for Sturgeon to say that Boris should do more. She doesn't need to worry about any consequences of the actions that we take.

Same with folk bumping their gums on here.

All I'm saying is wait and see.

Also no doubt Russia has the ability to sanction in return which needs to be considered. We don’t want to end up in a situation of cutting of our nose to spite our face. I’m not really clued up on the potential implications but surely if Russia cuts the gas we are in trouble? Also China’s position is probably a factor being considered behind the scenes rather than publicly.

[Hibrandenburg]

Were you all aware of these things 2 weeks ago or have you literally read them today / yesterday?

Amazing how many experts there are today that we never heard a peep from over the last 10 years.

It's common knowledge.

[Kato]

This thread is meant to be about Ukraine.

Why not out your Boris hating posts in the Tory hating thread?!

Because "Boris", the Conservative Party and The City of London are hugely linked to particular Russians, some of them "formerly" having links with Putin himself.

The USA have expressed doubts about the reliability of UK institutions, including the current government, due to these links.

I think that is reason enough for there to be discussion on the matter. Its not about "hating" him or the Govt.

If this were the 1960's and Harold Wilson did have an actual phone line direct to the Kremlin he'd be up on a gibbet by now.

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[Kato]

Were you all aware of these things 2 weeks ago or have you literally read them today / yesterday?

Amazing how many experts there are today that we never heard a peep from over the last 10 years.What would that matter?

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[grunt]

He didn’t really have a choice on that matter. You can blame the majority of those who voted in the referendum rather than the PM.
Without wishing to derail this discussion (I really was using it as an example), the manner in which he implemented Brexit (hard Brexit) resulted in the worst possible outcome for many UK industries and the loss of jobs. But let's not continue this distraction here?

[Smartie]

Also no doubt Russia has the ability to sanction in return which needs to be considered. We don’t want to end up in a situation of cutting of our nose to spite our face. I’m not really clued up on the potential implications but surely if Russia cuts the gas we are in trouble? Also China’s position is probably a factor being considered behind the scenes rather than publicly.

I think we only import 3% or so of our gas from Russia. Not ideal, but not mission critical for us (unlike the Germans).

We get most of our imported gas from Norway.


I suspect there might be some backtracking on past nuclear pledges going on in Germany right now and a few hulking great nuclear plants popped in the pipeline there...

[grunt]

Also no doubt Russia has the ability to sanction in return which needs to be considered. We don’t want to end up in a situation of cutting of our nose to spite our face. I’m not really clued up on the potential implications but surely if Russia cuts the gas we are in trouble? Also China’s position is probably a factor being considered behind the scenes rather than publicly.
The German Chancellor has halted the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, a $12bn project. This will impact Germany but is an example of a meaningful sanction.

[Paul1642]

I think we only import 3% or so of our gas from Russia. Not ideal, but not mission critical for us (unlike the Germans).

We get most of our imported gas from Norway.


I suspect there might be some backtracking on past nuclear pledges going on in Germany right now and a few hulking great nuclear plants popped in the pipeline there...

That’s promising to know however would the knock on effect be equally as bad for us? If Russia cuts of Gas to more dependent counties (Germany) then demand for the Norwegian product will surely rocket, and the price would follow the demand. I am of course ignorant of the practicality’s of this and if pipelines would allow this.

[Paul1642]

The German Chancellor has halted the Nord Stream 2 pipeline, a $12bn project. This will impact Germany but is an example of a meaningful sanction.

As i said earlier, Russia troops haven’t yet invaded. If we want to avoid war then going all out with the sanctions now leaves little reason for Putin to restrain from a full on invasion.

[Smartie]

That’s promising to know however would the knock on effect be equally as bad for us? If Russia cuts of Gas to more dependent counties (Germany) then demand for the Norwegian product will surely rocket, and the price would follow the demand. I am of course ignorant of the practicality’s of this and if pipelines would allow this.

I wouldn't pretend to know much about it, other than to say that everything you mention would make sense to me.

There has definitely been chat in recent years about how sensible it is for so much of Europe to be so reliant on gas from as unpredictable a nation as Russia.

This isn't much use in that it has the UK blanked out, but it's still interesting to see who is reliant on Russia for gas, and to what extent.

https://twitter.com/business/status/1496169678070239241?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1496169678070239241%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.readytogo.net%2Fsmb%2Fth reads%2Frussia-invading-the-ukraine.1566159%2Fpage-110

[Ozyhibby]

Russia will collapse without those gas sales so it works both ways. Fair play to the Germans who took meaningful actions today unlike ourselves.
PM also mislead parliament again today but it’s not an unusual thing these days.

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/no10-admit-boris-johnson-misspoke-26301678?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar


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[Stairway 2 7]

Map of the European gaslines. Germany has no option but to buy Russian gas as decommissioned 3 of its 6 nuclear power plants. The US has been pushing Germany to cancel nordstream 2 for years so will be happy. Apparently the US is trying to get Qatar to release alot more gas to the EU
25563

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1496192950463782915

Video circulating on social media purportedly showing Russian Embassy staff burning documents at the Odessa Consulate

[WhileTheChief..]

I wouldn't pretend to know much about it, other than to say that everything you mention would make sense to me.

There has definitely been chat in recent years about how sensible it is for so much of Europe to be so reliant on gas from as unpredictable a nation as Russia.

This isn't much use in that it has the UK blanked out, but it's still interesting to see who is reliant on Russia for gas, and to what extent.

https://twitter.com/business/status/1496169678070239241?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1496169678070239241%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.readytogo.net%2Fsmb%2Fth reads%2Frussia-invading-the-ukraine.1566159%2Fpage-110

These are hugely complex issues.

I don’t pretend to have any answers at all but I think it’s fair to say an awful lot of work is being done behind the scenes.

To be looking for snippets of blame by some on here seems like petty, political point scoring and jibes at the UK govt.

I think a bit of patience is required and let’s see how it plays out before we hang folk out to dry.

[GRA]

Putin is an idiot on an ego trip. Still trying to show he/Russia has some resemblance of power. Someone needs to tell him that power ended 30 odd years ago with the collapse of the USSR.

[LunasBoots]

https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1496192950463782915

Video circulating on social media purportedly showing Russian Embassy staff burning documents at the Odessa Consulate

Think things are about to hit the fan very shortly.

[WhileTheChief..]

Putin is an idiot on an ego trip. Still trying to show he/Russia has some resemblance of power. Someone needs to tell him that power ended 30 odd years ago with the collapse of the USSR.

:top marks

[Kato]

Putin is an idiot on an ego trip. Still trying to show he/Russia has some resemblance of power. Someone needs to tell him that power ended 30 odd years ago with the collapse of the USSR.He's been doing whatever he wants for the last 15 years. No one has stopped him doing anything.

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[degenerated]

I wouldn't pretend to know much about it, other than to say that everything you mention would make sense to me.

There has definitely been chat in recent years about how sensible it is for so much of Europe to be so reliant on gas from as unpredictable a nation as Russia.

This isn't much use in that it has the UK blanked out, but it's still interesting to see who is reliant on Russia for gas, and to what extent.

https://twitter.com/business/status/1496169678070239241?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5 Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1496169678070239241%7Ctwgr% 5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.readytogo.net%2Fsmb%2Fth reads%2Frussia-invading-the-ukraine.1566159%2Fpage-110If cash counted as an import then that map would show London to be a colour of puce comparable to Andrew Neil's coupon. :greengrin

[Smartie]

Putin is an idiot on an ego trip. Still trying to show he/Russia has some resemblance of power. Someone needs to tell him that power ended 30 odd years ago with the collapse of the USSR.

I wouldn't say that someone whose nation possesses nuclear weapons and whose fuel powers much of a neighbouring continent has no semblance of power, even if I accept that he may well overstate the strength of his hand at times.

[Lendo]

He's been doing whatever he wants for the last 15 years. No one has stopped him doing anything.

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Precisely! On his orders an innocent British National was killed in the botched Salisbury poisoning. What was the UK governments response to an act of war on British soil? Nothing. Literally nothing at all.

[Radium]

Thanks, I didn't know any of that.

I'm not ignoring anything.

My point still stands, you all seem to think that these huge issues are decided on the whim of one man. I don't believe that's the case at all.

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-report-donors-boris-johnson-conservative-party-2020-7

You are right, it is not one man, it is many who have taken the Ruble.


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[Since90+2]

Putin is an idiot on an ego trip. Still trying to show he/Russia has some resemblance of power. Someone needs to tell him that power ended 30 odd years ago with the collapse of the USSR.

Russia holds far more power than we do in the UK. That power and influence has clearly decreased since the days of the USSR but they still hold significant power.

They have the world's largest stockpile of nuclear weapons and one of the biggest armies on Earth, along with the largest reserves of natural resources on the planet.

[Radium]

https://twitter.com/keir_starmer/status/1496143999282909194?s=21

Not a Labour supporter but this is the response that is needed. Not the very limited response from Johnson and his cabinet.


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[Paul1642]

Biden’s sanctions looking fairly in line with ours.

[Kato]

Precisely! On his orders an innocent British National was killed in the botched Salisbury poisoning. What was the UK governments response to an act of war on British soil? Nothing. Literally nothing at all.A month after the poisoning NATO held a conference in Brussels to discuss Russia, Johnson as Foreign Secretary was to represent the UK. Instead he slipped his security detail and sloped off to Peruga to party with his KGB chum. That was the weekend after which he tipped up at an Italian airport looking wasted.

https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/nov/17/boris-johnson-met-alexander-lebedev-without-security-after-nato-summit

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[degenerated]

https://www.businessinsider.com/russia-report-donors-boris-johnson-conservative-party-2020-7

You are right, it is not one man, it is many who have taken the Ruble.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAnd women, let's not forget the 20 grand Ruth Davidson accepted.

[Radium]

And women, let's not forget the 20 grand Ruth Davidson accepted.

Fair point


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[ronaldo7]

It does look like some folk on here have been keeping up with events in Londongrad. :wink:

Those late to the party... well, was it a party...really.

Not directly linked to the OP, however this link shows how the WM parliament operates.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/appgs-scandal-mp-reveals-lobby-firm-tried-influence-parliament-alison-thewliss-snp/?fbclid=IwAR1PC-ZKmFWoTvEcyFjO6l13OKvm6V3x1ihpTh2PbF41QUJ6yovbpiNq A-o

[LunasBoots]

Precisely! On his orders an innocent British National was killed in the botched Salisbury poisoning. What was the UK governments response to an act of war on British soil? Nothing. Literally nothing at all.

I got the feeling at the time that Theresa May wanted to go further but internally the party stopped that.

[Kato]

It does look like some folk on here have been keeping up with events in Londongrad. :wink:

Those late to the party... well, was it a party...really.

Not directly linked to the OP, however this link shows how the WM parliament operates.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/dark-money-investigations/appgs-scandal-mp-reveals-lobby-firm-tried-influence-parliament-alison-thewliss-snp/?fbclid=IwAR1PC-ZKmFWoTvEcyFjO6l13OKvm6V3x1ihpTh2PbF41QUJ6yovbpiNq A-o

Have to keep in mind how much the tone of this country has changed as well. The United Kingdom of the 1960's and 70's was drastically different place with a different set of values. Since putting the "family silver" up for sale everything has been commodified. Once the sales of infrastructure and property run dry a countries institutions and the people who run them are a natural asset to privatise. High on the hog.

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[grunt]

To be looking for snippets of blame by some on here seems like petty, political point scoring and jibes at the UK govt.
.

You think I should be congratulating them?

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60487044


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[StevieC]

The worrying thing about Russia recognising Donetsk and Luhansk as independent states is that they are using the old borders of the oblast/region. Russia only controls about a third of the oblast, and I worry that they invade the other two thirds and push Ukrainian troops to the edges of the regions.

[WhileTheChief..]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-60487044


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The last line…

But it seems highly likely that more sanctions are coming soon.

[Ozyhibby]

The last line…

But it seems highly likely that more sanctions are coming soon.

I think it’s inevitable given how much flack he’s taken from all sides about today’s embarrassment.


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[JimBHibees]

This has been discussed for years.

https://www.instituteforgovernment.org.uk/blog/isc-russia-report

What was the plenty of evidence of misinformation in the Scottish independence referendum?

[Smartie]

The last line…

But it seems highly likely that more sanctions are coming soon.

Why do you think he's waiting?

Surely the line has already been crossed in order to justify a more robust response?

The actions so far are unlikely to prevent Putin from going any further, surely? If anything, the weak response might goad him into going further.

There isn't a sensible justification for Johnson's weakness - other than to afford his pals time to get their affairs in order prior to any other sanctions being enforced. All he's done so far is to make an even greater fool of himself at a time when he can ill afford much more damage to his reputation.

[Stairway 2 7]

Why do you think he's waiting?

Surely the line has already been crossed in order to justify a more robust response?

The actions so far are unlikely to prevent Putin from going any further, surely? If anything, the weak response might goad him into going further.

There isn't a sensible justification for Johnson's weakness - other than to afford his pals time to get their affairs in order prior to any other sanctions being enforced. All he's done so far is to make an even greater fool of himself at a time when he can ill afford much more damage to his reputation.
To be fair Putin isn't going to change his plans on any sanctions the uk put in place

[grunt]

What was the plenty of evidence of misinformation in the Scottish independence referendum?

There's not much detail.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18596334.government-avoided-russia-threat-brexit-despite-indyref-us-warnings/

[Ozyhibby]

To be fair Putin isn't going to change his plans on any sanctions the uk put in place

Might as well not bother then.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/haggis_uk/status/1496195502156746755?s=21

This needs done today.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Might as well not bother then.


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2 plus 2 and getting 10 there. Of course we should be putting in strict sanctions and of course Putin knows he will get sanctions from all countries. But a, he knows they will only do so much as they need the gas and b, he seems to not care at all as thirst for expansion

[LunasBoots]

The last line…

But it seems highly likely that more sanctions are coming soon.

Gives time for oligarchs to get money out of the UK

[Radium]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220223/687ea1c8c710c60ba0d40d1e7aaec364.png

Minister for Foreign Affairs, Ukraine


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[Renfrew_Hibby]

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=023nN-tvADs

An oldie but a goodie. Kinda shows you just how compromised BoJo is and how he has to walk a tightrope regards dishing out the old sanctions.

[WhileTheChief..]

Gives time for oligarchs to get money out of the UK

Or to have a coordinated approach with Western allies?

[WhileTheChief..]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220223/687ea1c8c710c60ba0d40d1e7aaec364.png

Minister for Foreign Affairs, Ukraine


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On the news last night there were a few talking heads from Ukraine. All of them appreciated the actions of the UK gov.

[JeMeSouviens]

Former adviser to Robin Cook when he was Foreign Secretary:


David Clark @David_K_Clark

The US and EU are coordinating sanctions, including now on Russian sovereign debt. Meanwhile the UK appears to be out of the loop with the weakest sanctions package of all. This should be a matter of national embarrassment and concern. What’s holding our Government back?

What indeed? :rolleyes:

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Former adviser to Robin Cook when he was Foreign Secretary:



What indeed? :rolleyes:

International no marks now, soft and open to manipulation from Russia, China and the Saudis ect.

[Ozyhibby]

Former adviser to Robin Cook when he was Foreign Secretary:



What indeed? :rolleyes:

You wouldn’t mind if they hadn’t been doing all the big talking last week and having a go at the Germans, to then find out we are Putins best friend in the west.
We’ve pretty much sanctioned the Russian equivalent of the Airdrie Savings Bank.


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[Bostonhibby]

International no marks now, soft and open to manipulation from Russia, China and the Saudis ect.On the world stage we were pretty much an irrelevance before this kicked off, we have the likes of Johnson and Truss shouting loudly so they appear to be involved for public consumption but whether we participate in events, or to what extent is unlikely to make much difference.

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[JimBHibees]

https://twitter.com/haggis_uk/status/1496195502156746755?s=21

This needs done today.


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So what is the accusation that she is making about the people listed? That they are involved in illegal activity or that they are very rich Russians assuming who support Putin who are in some ways able to influence UK politics/society?

[grunt]

So what is the accusation that she is making about the people listed? That they are involved in illegal activity or that they are very rich Russians assuming who support Putin who are in some ways able to influence UK politics/society?
This is the list of 35 names provided by Alexei Navalny who has accused them of human rights abuses and corruption.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navalny_35

[JeMeSouviens]

EU sanctions 378 Russian individuals. Maybe they're just more nuanced than us? :rolleyes:

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220223/a616a47dab88e4eb32ec5ca5d278de5e.jpg

Johnson is Putin’s lapdog.


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[JimBHibees]

This is the list of 35 names provided by Alexei Navalny who has accused them of human rights abuses and corruption.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Navalny_35

:aok:

[JimBHibees]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220223/a616a47dab88e4eb32ec5ca5d278de5e.jpg

Johnson is Putin’s lapdog.


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That is incredible. Why would Johnson say that about Abramovich in the first place?

[Hibrandenburg]

EU sanctions 378 Russian individuals. Maybe they're just more nuanced than us? :rolleyes:

There's a reason Boris wanted out of the EU and why Russia supported him.

[Smartie]

That is incredible. Why would Johnson say that about Abramovich in the first place?

Because he’s utterly clueless?

[Bostonhibby]

There's a reason Boris wanted out of the EU and why Russia supported him.Not wanting to comply with the new incoming EU anti money laundering regulations was potentially helpful to folk looking to move money around with less scrutiny.

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[Hibrandenburg]

Not wanting to comply with the new incoming EU anti money laundering regulations was potentially helpful to folk looking to move money around with less scrutiny.

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:agree: exactly.

[McSwanky]

On the world stage we were pretty much an irrelevance before this kicked off, we have the likes of Johnson and Truss shouting loudly so they appear to be involved for public consumption but whether we participate in events, or to what extent is unlikely to make much difference.

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Spot on, Brexit and the Tories have done untold damage to the UK's reputation. Compared to the likes of France and Germany, the UK is pretty much a laughing stock. The Tories can shout all they like, but nobody's listening.

Can't imagine Scotland would have much international clout as an independent country, but at least we'd be respected by others. Far rather have it that way.

[Ozyhibby]

Spot on, Brexit and the Tories have done untold damage to the UK's reputation. Compared to the likes of France and Germany, the UK is pretty much a laughing stock. The Tories can shout all they like, but nobody's listening.

Can't imagine Scotland would have much international clout as an independent country, but at least we'd be respected by others. Far rather have it that way.

As a member of the EU and NATO, we would have plenty clout.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/billbrowder/status/1496476388123193347?s=21


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[Bostonhibby]

Spot on, Brexit and the Tories have done untold damage to the UK's reputation. Compared to the likes of France and Germany, the UK is pretty much a laughing stock. The Tories can shout all they like, but nobody's listening.

Can't imagine Scotland would have much international clout as an independent country, but at least we'd be respected by others. Far rather have it that way.It's about what we actually do when it comes to taking a stand, to that extent Scotland could be as influential as it wants to be by doing rather than talking, and maybe not putting itself in a position where other nations or parties might have undue influence?



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[grunt]

Why would Johnson say that about Abramovich in the first place?Johnson announced new UK sanctions against 3 Russians who had already been subject to US sanction for the last 4 years.
Margaret Hodge criticised the weakness of the Govt action, saying he should be sanctioning higher profile oligarchs, such as Abramovich.
Johnson replied that Abramovich was already subject to sanctions.

A lie.

Not his first.

(Johnson also ran out of the HoC when Bryant stood up to ask him to correct his lie. Disappeared like a rat down a drainpipe).

[JimBHibees]

Johnson announced new UK sanctions against 3 Russians who had already been subject to US sanction for the last 4 years.
Margaret Hodge criticised the weakness of the Govt action, saying he should be sanctioning higher profile oligarchs, such as Abramovich.
Johnson replied that Abramovich was already subject to sanctions.

A lie.

Not his first.

(Johnson also ran out of the HoC when Bryant stood up to ask him to correct his lie. Disappeared like a rat down a drainpipe).

Thanks yes seen the video of him scuttling away and avoiding Bryant's question. Talk about bringing his position into complete disrepute. Charlatan of the highest order incredulous he is still in that role

[Bostonhibby]

Thanks yes seen the video of him scuttling away and avoiding Bryant's question. Talk about bringing his position into complete disrepute. Charlatan of the highest order incredulous he is still in that roleAnother low, but it's okay as apparently he "mis-spoke" again. Doesn't explain scuttling off but they seem to just carry on making it up as they go along.

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[Hibrandenburg]

No surprise that US republicans are backing Putin. Like our Tories they've been corrupted by Russian money. Heaven help us if they get back in at the next US elections.


https://twitter.com/djrothkopf/status/1496348077640364035?s=20&t=wU4mUHNYvvO_wVLr1w4iKg

[Ozyhibby]

EU sanctions 378 Russian individuals. Maybe they're just more nuanced than us? :rolleyes:

Does it count as a brexit benefit that we were not involved, so could not try and get those sanctions watered down?


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[McSwanky]

As a member of the EU and NATO, we would have plenty clout.


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Let me clarify. We'd have about the same amount of clout as the likes of Denmark, Norway etc.

Clearly we wouldn't have the influence of a France or a Germany, but we'd be far better off as a small nation in the EU than being part of a bigger, completely isolated, ****ed up nation as per the current situation.

[JeMeSouviens]

No surprise that US republicans are backing Putin. Like our Tories they've been corrupted by Russian money. Heaven help us if they get back in at the next US elections.


https://twitter.com/djrothkopf/status/1496348077640364035?s=20&t=wU4mUHNYvvO_wVLr1w4iKg

Trumpy is fully on board with the Putin invasion:

https://news.sky.com/story/ukraine-russia-crisis-donald-trump-praises-putins-aggression-as-wonderful-and-genius-12549418

[StevieC]

I mentioned a couple of weeks ago about the importance of the city of Mariupol, and its commercial port on the Azov Sea, and how I thought that this would be a target for Putin should there be an invasion.

The announcement that Russia would recognise both Donetsk and Luhansk as independant states is a major development, as the Russian Duma have based their ruling on the original borders of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions (rather than the current Russian occupied territories).

You can see from the image below that this could mean Russian troops having the go ahead, from Putin and the Duma, to forceably take the remaining areas of Donetsk and Luhansk regions, and enveloping the city of Mariupol and its strategic port. It also takes them up to the border of the Dnipro region, and just 90 miles from the city of Dnipro!

25575

[JimBHibees]

No surprise that US republicans are backing Putin. Like our Tories they've been corrupted by Russian money. Heaven help us if they get back in at the next US elections.


https://twitter.com/djrothkopf/status/1496348077640364035?s=20&t=wU4mUHNYvvO_wVLr1w4iKg

Absolutely incredible we have got to this state. Genuinely scary times.

[He's here!]

Sturgeon 'appalled' by Salmond continuing to host show on RT:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-60495467

[WhileTheChief..]

I mentioned a couple of weeks ago about the importance of the city of Mariupol, and its commercial port on the Azov Sea, and how I thought that this would be a target for Putin should there be an invasion.

The announcement that Russia would recognise both Donetsk and Luhansk as independant states is a major development, as the Russian Duma have based their ruling on the original borders of the Donetsk and Luhansk regions (rather than the current Russian occupied territories).

You can see from the image below that this could mean Russian troops having the go ahead, from Putin and the Duma, to forceably take the remaining areas of Donetsk and Luhansk regions, and enveloping the city of Mariupol and its strategic port. It also takes them up to the border of the Dnipro region, and just 90 miles from the city of Dnipro!

25575

Thanks for bringing the thread back on topic.

The thread has moved off the subject completely the last page or so as everyone decides it's better just to knock the UK gov than discuss anything else.

[hibsbollah]

Absolutely incredible we have got to this state. Genuinely scary times.

Ideology trumps National self interest.

edit-totally accidental pun. But the GOP clearly would prefer Putin to give Biden a bloody nose than the US to 'win' this bit of sabre-rattling. Definitely a shift in US politics.

[Ozyhibby]

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/critics-mild-uk-sanctions-russia-match-promises-83062191?cid=social_twitter_abcnp

Other countries noticing our soft response.


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[He's here!]

On the world stage we were pretty much an irrelevance before this kicked off, we have the likes of Johnson and Truss shouting loudly so they appear to be involved for public consumption but whether we participate in events, or to what extent is unlikely to make much difference.

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At least Comrade Jeremy 'let's send a sample of the Salisbury poison to Russia to see if they agree it's theirs' Corbyn isn't in charge :wink:

[hibsbollah]

At least Comrade Jeremy 'let's send a sample of the Salisbury poison to Russia to see if they agree it's theirs' Corbyn isn't in charge :wink:

Thats right, he was supposed to be in the Russians pockets, wasn't he? Or was that someone else?