Ukraine

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/noclador/status/1577324136220839937?s=46&t=xXjYTxVrlv0_c-MPAVAhvQ


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Cracking easy to understand thread

[makaveli1875]

People who are hinting that the west are to blame for Putin’s invasion could be right and I understand their take on it.

However it is completely wrong. If it was about security and the Russian bear has been prodded to much over the years, how does that explain the forced abduction of kids and the killing of innocent civilians.

It is purely an evil act by one man to cement his legacy by the only means he knows how.

His other justification was to protect Russian speaking people . The irony that he’s sent tens of thousands of Russian speaking soldiers to the slaughter and now he’s run out he’s dragging hundreds of thousands of Russian speaking people off the streets and sending them to get slaughtered . He’s got a funny way of going about protecting Russian speaking people .

[Stairway 2 7]

His other justification was to protect Russian speaking people . The irony that he’s sent tens of thousands of Russian speaking soldiers to the slaughter and now he’s run out he’s dragging hundreds of thousands of Russian speaking people off the streets and sending them to get slaughtered . He’s got a funny way of going about protecting Russian speaking people .

He also flattened 90% of buildings in Russian speaking Mariupol. Nothing like being liberated by having your house destroyed and family killed

[Hibs4185]

He also flattened 90% of buildings in Russian speaking Mariupol. Nothing like being liberated by having your house destroyed and family killed

Biden made him do it

[Stairway 2 7]

Dozens of videos like this over the past week. Russia says these people voted 99% for joining Russia 👍

https://mobile.twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1577398639181369355
@visegrad24
Ukrainian soldiers visibly moved as villagers from Bohuslavka, in the Kharkiv region, come to thank them for liberating their village.

They sing the national anthem together and then the villagers start chanting “thank you, thank you

https://mobile.twitter.com/saintjavelin/status/1577243626840915971

[Stairway 2 7]

Another summary of Kherson. It's bad for Russia

https://mobile.twitter.com/ThreshedThought/status/1577406071597314048

[Ozyhibby]

Another summary of Kherson. It's bad for Russia

https://mobile.twitter.com/ThreshedThought/status/1577406071597314048

If Ukraine gets to the dam then the water supply to Crimea will be turned off again.[emoji106]


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[Stairway 2 7]

Going to be a massive hit to the economy losing this many young men. Kazakhstan reported 200,000 have entered in 2 weeks. How many will also settle in their new countries also

RALee85
Forbes Russia is reporting that around 700,000 Russians have left the country since mobilization was announced
https://www.forbes.ru/society/478827-rossiu-posle-21-sentabra-pokinuli-okolo-700-000-grazdan

[CyberSauzee]

Someone who can see into the future?? Amazing foresight from a retired US general.

"I bookmarked this tweet from @MarkHertling from the day after Russia invaded Ukraine.

How many people could have been so prophetic in the 24 hours after Russia first invaded Ukraine. - Extraordinary."

https://twitter.com/AlphaMind101/status/1577417741174067200?t=3I6BwUSr1E3Yp9D2LPyimw&s=19

[Hibbyradge]

Someone who can see into the future?? Amazing foresight from a retired US general.

"I bookmarked this tweet from @MarkHertling from the day after Russia invaded Ukraine.

How many people could have been so prophetic in the 24 hours after Russia first invaded Ukraine. - Extraordinary."

https://twitter.com/AlphaMind101/status/1577417741174067200?t=3I6BwUSr1E3Yp9D2LPyimw&s=19

That's incredible.

[Stairway 2 7]

Someone who can see into the future?? Amazing foresight from a retired US general.

"I bookmarked this tweet from @MarkHertling from the day after Russia invaded Ukraine.

How many people could have been so prophetic in the 24 hours after Russia first invaded Ukraine. - Extraordinary."

https://twitter.com/AlphaMind101/status/1577417741174067200?t=3I6BwUSr1E3Yp9D2LPyimw&s=19

Me and oz in particular have been mocked as being hyper optimistic and nieve, by people who repeatedly say they don't get there information from mainstream media...


But I know we've both linked Mark hertling tweet threads before, plus Philips OBrien and Mike Martin ect. They are hardly mainstream. What they are is very experienced in their field. I wouldn’t trust the BBC or times or guardian for my Ukraine info. They are just opinion pieces, usually taken from these experts tweets and quite a few days out of date by the time they are released.

These guys have been saying all along Ukraine would eventually turn the tide. Even when the main media outlets were getting excited when Russia took severodonetsk, these guys said it was a bad move Russia wasting thousands to take it. These guys are all pretty sure it's inevitable Russia will lose now, I pray they are right again

[Stairway 2 7]

When can we expect the big push to break the land bridge

ThreshedThought
Mike Martin
Lest we get all wrapped up in the south - the Ukr look like they are about to sever the Russian supply lines in the north east (Kremina-Savatove-Troits’ke) which will make the Ru positions around Severodonetsk SUPER difficult to hold

Wonder which will pop first, South or North-East? Don’t forget though: these two fronts are to set the condition for a drive through the centre reaching the coast severing the Russians in two.

[Stairway 2 7]

If Ukraine takes Kherson city in the next few weeks he's really got a cheek saying its annexed

@nexta_tv
·
3h
#Putin officially appointed the gauleiters of the occupied territories:

📌 Denis Pushilin - #Donetsk region;

📌 Leonid Pasechnyk - #Luhansk region;

📌 Yevgeny Balitsky - #Zaporizhzhia region;

📌 Vladimir Saldo - #Kherson region

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/tpyxanews/status/1577704673334636551?s=46&t=-0awgCVE0LBVrUl-uL3cMw

Russian tank (not really a tank) crew surrendering. Interesting video.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221005/7eff0a0fe6fe502263caf37e513cb274.jpg

[emoji23]


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[AgentDaleCooper]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221005/7eff0a0fe6fe502263caf37e513cb274.jpg

[emoji23]


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i personally think there's a sort of glee going on here about Russia falling to bits in Ukraine that is pretty bogging tbh - the soldiers don't want to be there. a huge amount of them are ethnic minorities - i've heard that someone from the Tuvan Republic is x300 more likely to die than an ethnic Russian.

i am genuinely as happy as anyone to see Putin's assault fall on its arse, but it's not a bloody football game, and there are a lot of shades of grey in terms of the cause of the thing, if not the responsibility for the acts perpetrated.

[Ozyhibby]

i personally think there's a sort of glee going on here about Russia falling to bits in Ukraine that is pretty bogging tbh - the soldiers don't want to be there. a huge amount of them are ethnic minorities - i've heard that someone from the Tuvan Republic is x300 more likely to die than an ethnic Russian.

i am genuinely as happy as anyone to see Putin's assault fall on its arse, but it's not a bloody football game, and there are a lot of shades of grey in terms of the cause of the thing, if not the responsibility for the acts perpetrated.

The minute the Russians are out of Ukraine, I’m willing to consider shades of grey.


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[Stairway 2 7]

i personally think there's a sort of glee going on here about Russia falling to bits in Ukraine that is pretty bogging tbh - the soldiers don't want to be there. a huge amount of them are ethnic minorities - i've heard that someone from the Tuvan Republic is x300 more likely to die than an ethnic Russian.

i am genuinely as happy as anyone to see Putin's assault fall on its arse, but it's not a bloody football game, and there are a lot of shades of grey in terms of the cause of the thing, if not the responsibility for the acts perpetrated.

I'm generally gleeful when a genocidal invading army is getting blootered. I know the nazi soldiers were just normal young guys ruled by aresholes, same with the khmer rouge, but you have to have something wrong with you if you aren't happy when there armies were being defeated.

I feel gutted for the men on both sides that are dying, but I'm delighted with every inch of Ukraine that Russia cannot rape any more. I hope Russia fold like a pack of cards and get off Russian soil, its the quickest way they can get back to their families.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1577761861440868352?s=46&t=xHJ_DigDR-ZhPoyz8RfSiA


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[JimBHibees]

i personally think there's a sort of glee going on here about Russia falling to bits in Ukraine that is pretty bogging tbh - the soldiers don't want to be there. a huge amount of them are ethnic minorities - i've heard that someone from the Tuvan Republic is x300 more likely to die than an ethnic Russian.

i am genuinely as happy as anyone to see Putin's assault fall on its arse, but it's not a bloody football game, and there are a lot of shades of grey in terms of the cause of the thing, if not the responsibility for the acts perpetrated.

Can't say I have much sympathy for an invading force who has committed war crimes

[Stairway 2 7]

Extraordinary video of revolting Russian soldiers

https://mobile.twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1577752565839806472

@wartranslated
Russian mobiks, location unspecified, recording an address to the public, saying they were abandoned, they are all sick, they were given weapons which are not registered anywhere, they have to buy their food, and there are mentally unstable people among them

[AgentDaleCooper]

Extraordinary video of revolting Russian soldiers

https://mobile.twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1577752565839806472

@wartranslated
Russian mobiks, location unspecified, recording an address to the public, saying they were abandoned, they are all sick, they were given weapons which are not registered anywhere, they have to buy their food, and there are mentally unstable people among them

Putin really ought to know that p!ssing off your own military like this doesn't end well in Russia. Looks like he's combining the incompetency of Tsar Nicholas with the brutality of Stalin. Utter muff.

[Ozyhibby]

Putin really ought to know that p!ssing off your own military like this doesn't end well in Russia. Looks like he's combining the incompetency of Tsar Nicholas with the brutality of Stalin. Utter muff.

https://twitter.com/tadeuszgiczan/status/1577778132173594631?s=46&t=8KxvdKTLaTHgH108Hh-qaA

Jockeying for position is beginning.


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/tadeuszgiczan/status/1577778132173594631?s=46&t=8KxvdKTLaTHgH108Hh-qaA

Jockeying for position is beginning.


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https://mobile.twitter.com/EliotHiggins/status/1577779335699877888

Seems a war between Prigozhin(wagner) and shouigu(army) could be close, or as he says a fall out a window


And more infighting. This regime won't handle the loss of Crimea and tens of thousands more soldiers
https://mobile.twitter.com/OlgaNYC1211/status/1577786757394767873

[OldEast]

i personally think there's a sort of glee going on here about Russia falling to bits in Ukraine that is pretty bogging tbh - the soldiers don't want to be there. a huge amount of them are ethnic minorities - i've heard that someone from the Tuvan Republic is x300 more likely to die than an ethnic Russian.

i am genuinely as happy as anyone to see Putin's assault fall on its arse, but it's not a bloody football game, and there are a lot of shades of grey in terms of the cause of the thing, if not the responsibility for the acts perpetrated.

Rape, child rape, torture. **** them it's war.

[hibsbollah]

i personally think there's a sort of glee going on here about Russia falling to bits in Ukraine that is pretty bogging tbh - the soldiers don't want to be there. a huge amount of them are ethnic minorities - i've heard that someone from the Tuvan Republic is x300 more likely to die than an ethnic Russian.

i am genuinely as happy as anyone to see Putin's assault fall on its arse, but it's not a bloody football game, and there are a lot of shades of grey in terms of the cause of the thing, if not the responsibility for the acts perpetrated.

:agree: It’s actually embarrassing. War shouldn’t be a fun distraction or a consumer experience. Bloodlust is the only way to describe it. And an inability to see shades of grey is considered something to be proud of, you can park that in the same space as this apparently popular line of thinking that it’s ordinary Russians fault for not overthrowing Putin.

[Ozyhibby]

:agree: It’s actually embarrassing. War shouldn’t be a fun distraction or a consumer experience. Bloodlust is the only way to describe it. And an inability to see shades of grey is considered something to be proud of, you can park that in the same space as this apparently popular line of thinking that it’s ordinary Russians fault for not overthrowing Putin.

It’s ordinary Russians killing Ukrainian children every single day. It’s ordinary Russians torturing civilians. It’s ordinary Russians kidnapping and adopting Ukrainian kids. The things ordinary Russians seem capable of means that I feel entirely comfortable holding ordinary Russians to account. Blaming it all on Putin is letting a lot of ordinary Russians of the hook.


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[Stairway 2 7]

:agree: It’s actually embarrassing. War shouldn’t be a fun distraction or a consumer experience. Bloodlust is the only way to describe it. And an inability to see shades of grey is considered something to be proud of, you can park that in the same space as this apparently popular line of thinking that it’s ordinary Russians fault for not overthrowing Putin.

If your not delighted at the withdrawal of a genocidal invading army that is raping and murdering, you've got a want about you. Everyone is gutted about the poor young men dying, but needs must. We don't want blood we want them to run back over the border with not one death. That's cloud cuckoo land though, so on the battlefield it must be.

Would you say after the d day landings, why are you happy when young Germans are dead.

[hibsbollah]

It’s ordinary Russians killing Ukrainian children every single day. It’s ordinary Russians torturing civilians. It’s ordinary Russians kidnapping and adopting Ukrainian kids. The things ordinary Russians seem capable of means that I feel entirely comfortable holding ordinary Russians to account. Blaming it all on Putin is letting a lot of ordinary Russians of the hook.


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All ordinary Russians? If you just mean Russian military personnel, say so.

Are you as a citizen of the UK, to blame for allowing a mad, unelected PM like Liz Truss loose? Do you feel responsible for her? What are YOU doing as an individual to remove her from power? Are you aware that the Russian state media has a near monopoly on how people get their information?

It might be your habit of writing short snappy single sentences, but I think you’d come across better if you acknowledged somewhere that many Russians are either misinformed about what is going on in their country or are against it but have no power to stop it.

[Stairway 2 7]

New eu sanctions package against Russia

https://mobile.twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1577962597546180608

[Stairway 2 7]

School children left in Kherson are to be given an extended holiday from today and evacuated to crimea for their safety.

https://mobile.twitter.com/niktwick/status/1577941657030377472

[Ozyhibby]

School children left in Kherson are to be given an extended holiday from today and evacuated to crimea for their safety.

https://mobile.twitter.com/niktwick/status/1577941657030377472

Shades of grey?


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/flash_news_ua/status/1577983807839506433?s=46&t=1Y9dLaZB54VAzFlzq0pghA

More internal infighting.


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[superfurryhibby]

All ordinary Russians? If you just mean Russian military personnel, say so.

Are you as a citizen of the UK, to blame for allowing a mad, unelected PM like Liz Truss loose? Do you feel responsible for her? What are YOU doing as an individual to remove her from power? Are you aware that the Russian state media has a near monopoly on how people get their information?

It might be your habit of writing short snappy single sentences, but I think you’d come across better if you acknowledged somewhere that many Russians are either misinformed about what is going on in their country or are against it but have no power to stop it.

Any attempt to blame Russian civilians for the actions of their brutal totalitarian government are very misguided. We have no real idea as to the mood of "ordinary "Russian people, how can anyone gauge this in a state which routinely uses terror to subdue dissent.

I know people who have lived under dictatorship, in Chile and in Spain. Fear of retribution directed against you and your family tends to have a sobering effect on people's willingness to put their heads above the parapet. In both countries tens of thousands "disappeared". I have no doubts that the same thing is taking place in Russia right now. Of course there is a vocal and very public pro-Putin movement, what else could be expected in a dictatorship run by a blood thirsty maniac?

Reference to child abduction, rape etc. Those abhorrent abominations are almost beyond words, but they don't make blaming Russian people any more legitimate. In fact I find it completely tasteless to reference this and the blame thing in the same sentence.

[Stairway 2 7]

Any attempt to blame Russian civilians for the actions of their brutal totalitarian government are very misguided. We have no real idea as to the mood of "ordinary "Russian people, how can anyone gauge this in a state which routinely uses terror to subdue dissent.

I know people who have lived under dictatorship, in Chile and in Spain. Fear of retribution directed against you and your family tends to have a sobering effect on people's willingness to put their heads above the parapet. In both countries tens of thousands "disappeared". I have no doubts that the same thing is taking place in Russia right now. Of course there is a vocal and very public pro-Putin movement, what else could be expected in a dictatorship run by a blood thirsty maniac?

Reference to child abduction, rape etc. Those abhorrent abominations are almost beyond words, but they don't make blaming Russian people any more legitimate. In fact I find it completely tasteless to reference this and the blame thing in the same sentence.

I've lost where people are blaming the Russian public, I think that's only yous two who are mentioning it. Everyone says it's obviously the government's fault, same as Iraq or ww2 ect.

What we are saying is we would prefer Russia just left but they won't. So if its a choice between Ukrainians being raped tortured or removed to russia or Russian soldiers dying to get them removed, then so be it.

Thankfully russia are getting blootered so fast that the deaths are alot smaller than if it was a face to face battle

[Stairway 2 7]

@officejjsmart
·
Since the beginning of October, the Armed Forces of Ukraine 🇺🇦 have liberated more than 400 sq. km of the Kherson region

[OldEast]

Any attempt to blame Russian civilians for the actions of their brutal totalitarian government are very misguided. We have no real idea as to the mood of "ordinary "Russian people, how can anyone gauge this in a state which routinely uses terror to subdue dissent.

I know people who have lived under dictatorship, in Chile and in Spain. Fear of retribution directed against you and your family tends to have a sobering effect on people's willingness to put their heads above the parapet. In both countries tens of thousands "disappeared". I have no doubts that the same thing is taking place in Russia right now. Of course there is a vocal and very public pro-Putin movement, what else could be expected in a dictatorship run by a blood thirsty maniac?

Reference to child abduction, rape etc. Those abhorrent abominations are almost beyond words, but they don't make blaming Russian people any more legitimate. In fact I find it completely tasteless to reference this and the blame thing in the same sentence.

Nobody I can see is blaming the Russian people.

[hibsbollah]

Nobody I can see is blaming the Russian people.

Go back a few pages.

[Stairway 2 7]

Nobody I can see is blaming the Russian people.

Of course they aren't, but there will be 50 posts arguing back and forth about it. Although I'm sure in the next week or so I'll put up more horrors unearthed or war crimes by Russia, there will be near silence.

[hibsbollah]

‘They (Russia) have to have the most stupid population in Europe…you have to wonder when they’re going to wake up…’’they never take control for themselves..’ just after a five minute scan of recent posts. There’s plenty more gems.

[Stairway 2 7]

This conversation has been turned from being happy at Ukrainian winning is sick because it means Russia are dying, to are the Russian population to blame for there politicians actions.

Some people only want to talk about the Gray areas, but are nowhere to be seen when the genocide is uncovered. Everyone has said its the leaders and putin to blame. Thankfully this little thread means nothing in reality and in the real world Russia is getting pushed out. The bad thing is when they get pushed out the horrors they left behind are uncovered

[Stairway 2 7]

Lots of rumours of the big push down the middle to split the land bridge.

WarMonitor3
Summers in Melitopol are the best I hear

[Smartie]

This conversation has been turned from being happy at Ukrainian winning is sick because it means Russia are dying, to are the Russian population to blame for there politicians actions.

Some people only want to talk about the Gray areas, but are nowhere to be seen when the genocide is uncovered. Everyone has said its the leaders and putin to blame. Thankfully this little thread means nothing in reality and in the real world Russia is getting pushed out. The bad thing is when they get pushed out the horrors they left behind are uncovered

Re the genocide etc though - is there really much room for conversation there? Nobody defends it, nobody wants it, nobody justifies it and any conversation makes for being an echo chamber. Plus, much of what has happened has been so horrific as to make it deeply uncomfortable to discuss.

The shades of grey, where differences in opinion may occur, are the bits worthy of discussion.

[Stairway 2 7]

Re the genocide etc though - is there really much room for conversation there? Nobody defends it, nobody wants it, nobody justifies it and any conversation makes for being an echo chamber. Plus, much of what has happened has been so horrific as to make it deeply uncomfortable to discuss.

The shades of grey, where differences in opinion may occur, are the bits worthy of discussion.

It must be discussed in my opinion or they have died silently. It's hardly an echo chamber when some exclusively talk about the azov battalion, is Zelensky a crook, are nato to blame and never once speak or amplify the war crimes.

[Ozyhibby]

It must be discussed in my opinion or they have died silently. It's hardly an echo chamber when some exclusively talk about the azov battalion, is Zelensky a crook, are nato to blame and never once speak or amplify the war crimes.

Got to love the ‘I’m no fan of Putin but…’ brigade.[emoji849]


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[hibsbollah]

Re the genocide etc though - is there really much room for conversation there? Nobody defends it, nobody wants it, nobody justifies it and any conversation makes for being an echo chamber. Plus, much of what has happened has been so horrific as to make it deeply uncomfortable to discuss.

The shades of grey, where differences in opinion may occur, are the bits worthy of discussion.

I agree. And I think it needs to be called out that a)a race of people is being routinely criticised on here for the actions of their leaders and b) glee is being taken at the death of ordinary conscripted soldiers in wartime. Real playground stuff. That’s going down a deeply problematic road that has lots of historical parallels.

[Stairway 2 7]

Russia have hardly any guided missles left, so again are using s300 surface to air missles volleyed randomly in cities.

They can only go so far, so if Russia being pushed back means they can't do this to more residential buildings then good.

https://mobile.twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1578028683268222982

NEXTA
@nexta_tv
5m
The body of a woman under the rubble of a residential building in #Zporizhzhia.

[hibsbollah]

Got to love the ‘I’m no fan of Putin but…’ brigade.[emoji849]


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You’re deflecting from your own problematic posts.

[Ozyhibby]

You’re deflecting from your own problematic posts.

I stand by my posts. I’m proud to be supporting Ukraine.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I agree. And I think it needs to be called out that a)a race of people is being routinely criticised on here for the actions of their leaders and b) glee is being taken at the death of ordinary conscripted soldiers in wartime. Real playground stuff. That’s going down a deeply problematic road that has lots of historical parallels.

It's not playground that's just you name calling because people disagree with you. I'm gleeful for every mile of Ukraine Russia get moved out of, I only wish it was quicker. War is awful but if its between a soldier who signs up or Liza Dmitrieva age 4 walking with her mum then there is no choice sadly

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/world/2022/jul/14/social-media-posts-chart-life-and-death-of-girl-in-russian-strike

The historical parallel is its a shame for the young Germans that died on d day, but I'm glad they were defeated and it helped end the war.

[hibsbollah]

I stand by my posts. I’m proud to be supporting Ukraine.


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‘Russia must be the stupidest population in Europe?’ ‘Why don’t they just overthrow their leaders?’ Isn’t supporting Ukraine. Explain your reasoning there.

[Stairway 2 7]

You’re deflecting from your own problematic posts.

You spent 3 days saying you doubted Bucha happened as it made zero military sense, why would Russians tie there hands behind their back, why would they leave them lying in the street for days. This was after satellite evidence, I'd say that is more problematic.

[Ozyhibby]

You spent 3 days saying you doubted Bucha happened as it made zero military sense, why would Russians tie there hands behind their back, why would they leave them lying in the street for days. This was after satellite evidence, I'd say that is more problematic.

Not to mention spent the first few pages of the thread trying to say East Ukrainians were pro Russian.


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[hibsbollah]

Not to mention spent the first few pages of the thread trying to say East Ukrainians were pro Russian.


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Since you’re not answering the question at all, or making any comment about your blatant bloodlust, let me put it like this. Is my position, which is wanting Ukraine to win the war, detesting Putin but having sympathy for the civilian and military victims from BOTH populations, more sensible than yours, which is to act like a playground cheerleader, post laughing emojis alongside stories of human beings actually dying and misconstruing other posters positions while you’re at it?

[Stairway 2 7]

Not to mention spent the first few pages of the thread trying to say East Ukrainians were pro Russian.


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To be fair Putin was shocked when the locals in Russian speaking Kharkiv met them with molotovs instead of hugs. Every region including crimea voted to stay Ukrainian in the 1991 vote, almost every region voted for Zelensky so its no surprise they were hostile to being invaded

[hibsbollah]

Not to mention spent the first few pages of the thread trying to say East Ukrainians were pro Russian.


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There is a substantial Russian minority in Eastern Ukraine. At least there was. Which is not contestable even by you.

[Ozyhibby]

Since you’re not answering the question at all, or making any comment about your blatant bloodlust, let me put it like this. Is my position, which is wanting Ukraine to win the war, detesting Putin but having sympathy for the civilian and military victims from BOTH populations, more sensible than yours, which is to act like a playground cheerleader, post laughing emojis alongside stories of human beings actually dying and misconstruing other posters positions while you’re at it?

No, because you would trade away parts of Ukraine to Putin and I wouldn’t.


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[hibsbollah]

No, because you would trade away parts of Ukraine to Putin and I wouldn’t.


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I understand the debating style, because it’s pretty common on the internet, I get it. Refuse to engage with a question, properly, ever, and instead deflect by telling me what I think instead of actually reading what I think. It’s a bit boring because it never goes anywhere. I’ll leave you to it.

[James310]

I understand the debating style, because it’s pretty common on the internet, I get it. Refuse to engage with a question, properly, ever, and instead deflect by telling me what I think instead of actually reading what I think. It’s a bit boring because it never goes anywhere. I’ll leave you to it.

At last, we have something in common. Welcome to my world.

[hibsbollah]

At last, we have something in common. Welcome to my world.

Well, if I’ve done that to you in the past, bump the thread and I’ll apologise and engage with your point in an appropriate way :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

The next big battle will be towards melotipol. Sicko that I am, I really hope Ukraine do the business as that will split Russian forces in two. Yes poor Russians need to die for this to happen, yes it will end the war quicker

WarMonitor3
·
Russian columns from Mariupol seen heading towards the southern frontlines near Melitopol

[James310]

Well, if I’ve done that to you in the past, bump the thread and I’ll apologise and engage with your point in an appropriate way :greengrin

Not you no! You are having similar experiences I have....

[Stairway 2 7]

Not you no! You are having similar experiences I have....

Pro growth coalition 🙌

[WhileTheChief..]

All these soldiers were ordinary Russians a few months ago.

Nobody is making them rape, or murder, or pull peoples teeth out, or to castrate anybody.

Evil *******s.

[Bostonhibby]

This conversation has been turned from being happy at Ukrainian winning is sick because it means Russia are dying, to are the Russian population to blame for there politicians actions.

Some people only want to talk about the Gray areas, but are nowhere to be seen when the genocide is uncovered. Everyone has said its the leaders and putin to blame. Thankfully this little thread means nothing in reality and in the real world Russia is getting pushed out. The bad thing is when they get pushed out the horrors they left behind are uncoveredI hear you. [emoji106]

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[WhileTheChief..]

This conversation has been turned from being happy at Ukrainian winning is sick because it means Russia are dying, to are the Russian population to blame for there politicians actions.

Some people only want to talk about the Gray areas, but are nowhere to be seen when the genocide is uncovered. Everyone has said its the leaders and putin to blame. Thankfully this little thread means nothing in reality and in the real world Russia is getting pushed out. The bad thing is when they get pushed out the horrors they left behind are uncovered

It’s been refreshing to hear UKR politicians talk so frankly about killing Russians. It’s what needs to get done to bring this to an end.

I think glee is the wrong term being used here, probably deliberately.

I definitely enjoy reading about each and every UKR advance and success and I care deeply for those UKRs who give up their lives for the cause. I’ll admit that I don’t really care about the Russians that die as a result of it though. It’s on them.

They’re brutal people, carrying out atrocities on a daily basis. The only way to stop them is to kill or capture them.

Yesterday on the news, they showed a box full of gold teeth that had been pulled from civilians. Was worse than the scene from Schindler’s List.

This was done by ordinary Russians dressed in military uniforms. I’ll not lose any sleep when I read about them being killed as UKR fight back.

[superfurryhibby]

Since you’re not answering the question at all, or making any comment about your blatant bloodlust, let me put it like this. Is my position, which is wanting Ukraine to win the war, detesting Putin but having sympathy for the civilian and military victims from BOTH populations, more sensible than yours, which is to act like a playground cheerleader, post laughing emojis alongside stories of human beings actually dying and misconstruing other posters positions while you’re at it?

Well said.

Your position mirrors my own.

FWIW, I haven't read one post that has supported Putin or expressed sympathy with the Russian objectives. People need to stop the hysteria, stop repeating the stuff about killing, raping, child abduction every time they respond to a post that attempts to shift the narrative away from their chosen position and show a bit of dignity in how they engage when people who don't share their views.

Just for clarity, for around the 100th time. Putin is a wicked and dangerous man. Russian military actions have been unforgivable. Their soldiers have perpetrated atrocity. I hope Ukraine continues to resist and that there is a conclusion that ends this conflict soon.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/flash_news_ua/status/1578014010053603328?s=46&t=RnrCU8XF40op-p5NHzGDYw
Russia scrambling about looking for winter clothes for their troops. Pretty short lead time for so many uniforms.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I'm sure I said in all the videos of the rag tag conscripts, I feel terrible for the poor men. Tens of thousands more are going to be killed because that horrible c Putin. Wish they didn't have to die but they aren't leaving on their own accord. If it comes to russia being defeated in battle or them continuing this slaughter, there is only one winner.

War is horrible but the quickest way it ends is as fast a Ukrainian victory as possible

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/antiputler_news/status/1578070453364658177?s=46&t=RnrCU8XF40op-p5NHzGDYw

Romanian military equipment moving into Moldova for exercises with Moldova, Romanian and UK militaries.
Transnistria will return to Moldova soon enough.


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[Rumble de Thump]

Well said.

Your position mirrors my own.

FWIW, I haven't read one post that has supported Putin or expressed sympathy with the Russian objectives. People need to stop the hysteria, stop repeating the stuff about killing, raping, child abduction every time they respond to a post that attempts to shift the narrative away from their chosen position and show a bit of dignity in how they engage when people who don't share their views.

Just for clarity, for around the 100th time. Putin is a wicked and dangerous man. Russian military actions have been unforgivable. Their soldiers have perpetrated atrocity. I hope Ukraine continues to resist and that there is a conclusion that ends this conflict soon.

Could everyone please stop talking about the killing?

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/antiputler_news/status/1578070453364658177?s=46&t=RnrCU8XF40op-p5NHzGDYw

Romanian military equipment moving into Moldova for exercises with Moldova, Romanian and UK militaries.
Transnistria will return to Moldova soon enough.


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Huge links between Moldova and Romania, add in Romania is nato and has modern weapons

[Stairway 2 7]

https://mobile.twitter.com/dwnews/status/1578076117294006274

dwnews
An investigation of the Nord Stream 1 and 2 gas pipelines from Russia to Europe has strengthened suspicions of "serious sabotage" involving explosives that led to four pipeline leaks, Sweden's Security Service has said

[Stairway 2 7]

Polls in Germany and Spain this week showed support isn't waning their also.

https://mobile.twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1577967836428963845
Reuters: Most Americans think US should keep supporting Ukraine, despite Russia's nuclear threats.

A recent poll shows 73% of U.S. citizens agreed for their country to continue to support Ukraine, despite Russia's threats to use nuclear weapons, Reuters reported

[Stairway 2 7]

I think an "accident" at the nuclear power station is much more likely than a nuclear bomb

ChuckPfarrer
·
3h
ZAPORIZHZHIA NUCLEAR PLANT/ 06 OCT/ In a dangerous escalation, RU troops have fired several surface- to-surface missiles from the interior of the nuclear plant toward the nearby city of Zaporizhzhia

[AgentDaleCooper]

ozzy and stairway - you do get that the way you are enjoying this makes it comes across as it sort of being a kind of hobby? it kind of looks like you've found an arena in which there's is a villain against which you can justifiably exercise an interest in battlefield happenings.

i'm sure that's not actually what's going on, but to me it does actually look like that, and it gives me the boke. it's not just 'supporting Ukraine', it's clearly going beyond that. the fact that it's got to the stage of conscription means more than ever that the Russian soldiers are merely pawns. even before that though there have been atrocities committed by Ukrainians - before the war even started, in fact. The Odessa Town Hall Massacre is pretty bleak. I'm 100% not saying that they are 'as bad as each other' etc., however I am very confident that some properly unjustifiable stuff will have happened and be happening currently on both side. No doubt, the Russians will be doing more of it, but the fact is, this war should not be providing thrills to any mentally healthy individual, save fore those being genuinely liberated or re-united with loved ones. Relief, maybe - but that's not what it really looks like on here.

[CyberSauzee]

Russians using chemical weapons?

https://twitter.com/JayinKyiv/status/1578123206111932416?t=E2-SKgNB12eXhC-mNGyo-w&s=19

[Stairway 2 7]

ozzy and stairway - you do get that the way you are enjoying this makes it comes across as it sort of being a kind of hobby? it kind of looks like you've found an arena in which there's is a villain against which you can justifiably exercise an interest in battlefield happenings.

i'm sure that's not actually what's going on, but to me it does actually look like that, and it gives me the boke. it's not just 'supporting Ukraine', it's clearly going beyond that. the fact that it's got to the stage of conscription means more than ever that the Russian soldiers are merely pawns. even before that though there have been atrocities committed by Ukrainians - before the war even started, in fact. The Odessa Town Hall Massacre is pretty bleak. I'm 100% not saying that they are 'as bad as each other' etc., however I am very confident that some properly unjustifiable stuff will have happened and be happening currently on both side. No doubt, the Russians will be doing more of it, but the fact is, this war should not be providing thrills to any mentally healthy individual, save fore those being genuinely liberated or re-united with loved ones. Relief, maybe - but that's not what it really looks like on here.

Don't even compare the mass systematic massacres of Russia with the actions of Ukraine. The Ukrainian side will have committed crimes like every army us in abu ghraib ect. Russia are committing an all out genocide over 100,000 people forcefully removed just from Mariupol, thousands in mass graves, systematic rape as a torture, hundreds of pows set on fire, deliberately flattening civilian buildings, firing on humanitarian corridors.

We've not seen the likes in Europe since the balkans. There is zero enjoyment, I personally can't wait until its over its absolutely horrifying. Like covid it feels like more information can help take in the horrors. I am genuinely delighted when Ukraine takes there land back as it is closer to the end and hopefully the end of this Russian regime. I don't believe any mentally healthy individual can have the information and not be delighted Russia are getting pushed back to russia

[WhileTheChief..]

ozzy and stairway - you do get that the way you are enjoying this makes it comes across as it sort of being a kind of hobby? it kind of looks like you've found an arena in which there's is a villain against which you can justifiably exercise an interest in battlefield happenings.


That's maybe you're take on things but most of us appreciate the links.

I think we're all learning here and nobody is happy about the situation or 'enjoying' it.

What you are seeing is people rightly being pleased at UKRs successes and mocking some of the Russians actions, in amongst the strong condemnation.

Twitter and YouTube is full of UKR military and civilian people celebrating Russian losses and making fun of them. Some of the Tweets from the UKR gov do similar and are fantastic.

[Ozyhibby]

ozzy and stairway - you do get that the way you are enjoying this makes it comes across as it sort of being a kind of hobby? it kind of looks like you've found an arena in which there's is a villain against which you can justifiably exercise an interest in battlefield happenings.

i'm sure that's not actually what's going on, but to me it does actually look like that, and it gives me the boke. it's not just 'supporting Ukraine', it's clearly going beyond that. the fact that it's got to the stage of conscription means more than ever that the Russian soldiers are merely pawns. even before that though there have been atrocities committed by Ukrainians - before the war even started, in fact. The Odessa Town Hall Massacre is pretty bleak. I'm 100% not saying that they are 'as bad as each other' etc., however I am very confident that some properly unjustifiable stuff will have happened and be happening currently on both side. No doubt, the Russians will be doing more of it, but the fact is, this war should not be providing thrills to any mentally healthy individual, save fore those being genuinely liberated or re-united with loved ones. Relief, maybe - but that's not what it really looks like on here.

I can tell you right now that I’m absolutely over the moon every time I read about a Ukrainian battlefield success. It puts a whopping big smile on my face. Every time I read about a Russian ammo dump being blown up, I’m giving myself mental high fives.
The way I see this war, if Putin isn’t stopped now in Ukraine, he will invade another country and that could be a lot closer to home.
I’m going to keep hoping and praying that Ukraine keep on winning. I’m going to keep hoping that the west keep arming them.
If it gives you the boak, then put me on ignore.
I’ll keep posting links to things I think are interesting or newsworthy as some posters don’t bother with Twitter etc. but all the info is out there, you won’t miss a thing for ignoring me.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

Don't even compare the mass systematic massacres of Russia with the actions of Ukraine. The Ukrainian side will have committed crimes like every army us in abu ghraib ect. Russia are committing an all out genocide over 100,000 people forcefully removed just from Mariupol, thousands in mass graves, systematic rape as a torture, hundreds of pows set on fire, deliberately flattening civilian buildings, firing on humanitarian corridors.

We've not seen the likes in Europe since the balkans. There is zero enjoyment, I personally can't wait until its over its absolutely horrifying. Like covid it feels like more information can help take in the horrors. I am genuinely delighted when Ukraine takes there land back as it is closer to the end and hopefully the end of this Russian regime. I don't believe any mentally healthy individual can have the information and not be delighted Russia are getting pushed back to russia

I would agree with this, and it's not mutually exclusive to what I said. I think what I'm really taking issue with (which wasn't you, though I realise I singled you out) was making lols about the state of the Russian army - every single aspect of this war is horrific.

r.e. comparisons though, why not? it's extremely dangerous for either side to be dehumanized while the other is venerated, especially now that conscription has been started in Russia. Those poor people are being forced to go to their own slaughter. Putin is basically carrying out ethnic cleansing in his own country by drafting highly disproportionately from areas such as Dagestan, Tuva and so on. I'm not saying I sympathise with them more than I do the Ukrainians who are suffering untold horrors on a colossal scale, but I certainly still sympathise with their humanity, because they don't want to be there, and did nothing to deserve it. It's horrific.

[AgentDaleCooper]

I can tell you right now that I’m absolutely over the moon every time I read about a Ukrainian battlefield success. It puts a whopping big smile on my face. Every time I read about a Russian ammo dump being blown up, I’m giving myself mental high fives.
The way I see this war, if Putin isn’t stopped now in Ukraine, he will invade another country and that could be a lot closer to home.
I’m going to keep hoping and praying that Ukraine keep on winning. I’m going to keep hoping that the west keep arming them.
If it gives you the boak, then put me on ignore.
I’ll keep posting links to things I think are interesting or newsworthy as some posters don’t bother with Twitter etc. but all the info is out there, you won’t miss a thing for ignoring me.


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i have the same fears about Putin winning, but equally, the whole scenario of 'catastrophic success' is entirely plausible, where he's getting pumped, thinks he's going to lose power, goes '**** it' and then nukes everyone. i know i'm being flippant, i guess that's how i deal with it...but anyway. i'm bored of my own moral dick waving, let alone that of other people. TBH, i'll just ignore the whole thread, and hope we all have a good day on saturday :aok:

[Ozyhibby]

I would agree with this, and it's not mutually exclusive to what I said. I think what I'm really taking issue with (which wasn't you, though I realise I singled you out) was making lols about the state of the Russian army - every single aspect of this war is horrific.

r.e. comparisons though, why not? it's extremely dangerous for either side to be dehumanized while the other is venerated, especially now that conscription has been started in Russia. Those poor people are being forced to go to their own slaughter. Putin is basically carrying out ethnic cleansing in his own country by drafting highly disproportionately from areas such as Dagestan, Tuva and so on. I'm not saying I sympathise with them more than I do the Ukrainians who are suffering untold horrors on a colossal scale, but I certainly still sympathise with their humanity, because they don't want to be there, and did nothing to deserve it. It's horrific.

Which is fine, but I tend to focus my sympathy with the Ukrainian civilians who are dying in their homes.
I’d have more sympathy with these poor conscripts if they chose to fight in Russia against the war than coming to Ukraine to fight. They have a choice, fight Putin at home or fight Ukraine in Ukraine. They are choosing the second option. And they are more likely to die by choosing that option.


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[AgentDaleCooper]

Which is fine, but I tend to focus my sympathy with the Ukrainian civilians who are dying in their homes.
I’d have more sympathy with these poor conscripts if they chose to fight in Russia against the war than coming to Ukraine to fight. They have a choice, fight Putin at home or fight Ukraine in Ukraine. They are choosing the second option. And they are more likely to die by choosing that option.


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the last thing i'll say, i promise, is that it's very easy for us in the west to say this - they aren't exactly making an informed choice.

[Hibbyradge]

the last thing i'll say, i promise, is that it's very easy for us in the west to say this - they aren't exactly making an informed choice.

You're absolutely correct and I feel very sorry for those poor men.

I don't think people are laughing at the inadequately prepared soldiers or conscripts, but the Russian army is an extension of Putin so they're laughing at him.

However, I won't shed any tears for the criminal thugs who commit rape, torture or kill children even though I do oppose the death penalty.

Although I'm certain atrocities have been committed, I'm well aware that as well as the military struggle, there's a hugely important propaganda war being fought so it's very hard to know the full scale of crimes etc.

The fog of war and all that.

[WhileTheChief..]

The UKR gov have set up a phone line to help Russian soldiers surrender.

They dial ”I want to live” and can surrender with confidentiality from the Russian authorities. It’s fully endorsed by the Geneva Convention and apparently thousands of calls have already been made.

In contrast, Russians refusing to fight, or being ‘caught’ surrendering, face 10 years in prison.

It’s been 7 months, 100s of 1000s of men have fled the country, 10s of 1000s are dead or wounded, and those fighting have have been reporting home on what is really happening.

Ordinary Russians can no longer claim they don’t know what is going on.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/wartranslated/status/1578123543820148736?s=46&t=gXja2tFLr5nC6uNGrqya5w

Intercepted call between two Russian soldiers.


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[Bristolhibby]

Two men from Russias Far East have sailed across the Bering straight and landed in Alaska. Looking to defect.

Great news. And fair play for attempting that journey. I’ve seen Deadliest Catch.

https://twitter.com/osinttechnical/status/1578089019883257866?s=46&t=-Kar_L6rXBML5aGewGSlrg

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/saintjavelin/status/1578155497198264322?s=46&t=gXja2tFLr5nC6uNGrqya5w
Interesting thread.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/rikhardhusu/status/1578308226709590017?s=46&t=gXja2tFLr5nC6uNGrqya5w
Good from Finnish PM.[emoji106][emoji122]


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/rikhardhusu/status/1578308226709590017?s=46&t=gXja2tFLr5nC6uNGrqya5w
Good from Finnish PM.[emoji106][emoji122]


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She's amazing

https://mobile.twitter.com/Biz_Ukraine_Mag/status/1578169336430215168

[Stairway 2 7]

Putin will not be amused. A Russian a Belarusian and a Ukrainian organisation win the Nobel peace prize for work exposing Russian human rights violations. I've added a great thread on Movement who done some amazing work in chechnya. One of its founders was murdered by the regime, the award is to her

@officejjsmart

⚡️⚡️⚡️NOBEL PEACE PRIZE AWARDED x3:

- Russian 🇷🇺 human rights org ‘Memorial’. ‘Memorial’ was deemed to be “foreign agents” by the Kremlin & liquidated by the 🇷🇺 Supreme Court;

- Ukraine 🇺🇦 Center for Civil Liberties;

- Jailed Belarus 🇧🇾 human rights activist Ales Bialiatski


https://mobile.twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1578329987882844161

@lanaestemirova
·
1h
My mum was Memorial and Memorial was my mum. She worked tirelessly to help the victims of the Russian war in Chechnya and hold the criminal regime to account. I wish she could be here to share this triumph with her colleagues. But everything we do, we do in her memory

[Stairway 2 7]

Putin doesn’t want a deal

ZelenskyyUa
It's obvious 🇷🇺 doesn’t want any real negotiations.Because if it wanted to,it would have responded to dozens of our proposals and efforts. 🇷🇺 just wants to buy time. It wants to regroup and put together resources to strike again. We've to stop them from doing that

Garry Kasparov
@Kasparov63
·
2h
Putin loves ceasefires, frozen conflicts, etc. because he simply doesn't honor them. It's another asymmetry, abusing Western trust of agreements & the language of diplomacy. When Putin actually wants to negotiate he'll start leaving Ukraine

[Stairway 2 7]

Well said, ridiculous we deal so much with these abhorrent crooks

visegrad24
If Saudi Arabia (…), wants to partner with Russia to jack up US gas prices, it can get Putin to defend its monarchy.

We must pull all US troops out of Saudi Arabia, stop selling them weapons and end its price-fixing oil cartel,

says Senator Bernie Sanders

[CyberSauzee]

And the Kerch Bridge to Crimea has been blown up...

https://twitter.com/olliecarroll/status/1578602609463545857?t=Cep8phgJBwsTcwDJiHQuhQ&s=19

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/08/crimea-kerch-bridge-explosions-russia-ukraine

[Stairway 2 7]

And the Kerch Bridge to Crimea has been blown up...

https://twitter.com/olliecarroll/status/1578602609463545857?t=Cep8phgJBwsTcwDJiHQuhQ&s=19

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/08/crimea-kerch-bridge-explosions-russia-ukraine

Omg that is absolutely huge news

[Stairway 2 7]

On Putin's 70th birthday sections of the Kerch Bridge vote overwhelmingly to be annexed by the city of atlantis. Russia needs rail for its army to function. The troops in the south have two ways of being supplied. The way of the land bridge, but that is pretty much useless as the track goes past the front line and is in Javelin range. The second is the Kerch Bridge

A good thread from a few weeks ago on how important the bridge is for them
https://mobile.twitter.com/noclador/status/1572389840007892992

Some footage of the explosions, any clues on the cause
https://mobile.twitter.com/officejjsmart/status/1578637286115188739

[Bridge hibs]

On Putin's 70th birthday sections of the Kerch Bridge vote overwhelmingly to be annexed by the city of atlantis. Russia needs rail for its army to function. The troops in the south have two ways of being supplied. The way of the land bridge, but that is pretty much useless as the track goes past the front line and is in Javelin range. The second is the Kerch Bridge

A good thread from a few weeks ago on how important the bridge is for them
https://mobile.twitter.com/noclador/status/1572389840007892992

Some footage of the explosions, any clues on the cause
https://mobile.twitter.com/officejjsmart/status/1578637286115188739Hope he chokes on his ****ing cake 🤬

[Moulin Yarns]

Huge fire on the bridge linking Russia with crimea

[Jones28]

Huge fire on the bridge linking Russia with crimea

Road section of the bridge destroyed and the rail bridge was ablaze for a while. I’m no engineer I but I can’t imagine either part of it being usable for a very long time.

[Jones28]

On Putin's 70th birthday sections of the Kerch Bridge vote overwhelmingly to be annexed by the city of atlantis. Russia needs rail for its army to function. The troops in the south have two ways of being supplied. The way of the land bridge, but that is pretty much useless as the track goes past the front line and is in Javelin range. The second is the Kerch Bridge

A good thread from a few weeks ago on how important the bridge is for them
https://mobile.twitter.com/noclador/status/1572389840007892992

Some footage of the explosions, any clues on the cause
https://mobile.twitter.com/officejjsmart/status/1578637286115188739

Bomb carried by a truck seems to be biggest theory going around at the moment.


Now suspecting that it’s been a remotely controlled boat of some kind.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/maxseddon/status/1578649489140699136?s=46&t=-JfaqnBjdN8Kb_35S3CYQw

Some amazing video footage and photographs on this thread.
I’m very surprised at this. I always thought the would leave the bridge as an escape route. If it was a truck bomb then it’s a suicide bomber. There is def a truck crossing at the moment of explosion as seen in the video.
This is huge news.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1578665161246011392?s=46&t=-JfaqnBjdN8Kb_35S3CYQw

I know some on here don’t like this sort of stuff but I’m posting anyway as I thought it funny. Ukrainian govt does like to troll the Russians.


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[OldEast]

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1578665161246011392?s=46&t=-JfaqnBjdN8Kb_35S3CYQw

I know some on here don’t like this sort of stuff but I’m posting anyway as I thought it funny. Ukrainian govt does like to troll the Russians.


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Fine by me 👍🏻

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/noclador/status/1572389840007892992?s=46&t=-JfaqnBjdN8Kb_35S3CYQw

Thread from last month on why the Kerch bridge hit is so important.


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[makaveli1875]

Someone smoking cigarettes on the wrong part of the bridge ?

[Lendo]

In Riga just now and a lot of Russian tourists kicking about, especially out at the beach today in Jūrmala. Their arrogance in the bars and restaurants I’ve been in is astounding. Never seems such an arrogant, stuck-up people. Bit of a generalisation perhaps.

[OldEast]

In Riga just now and a lot of Russian tourists kicking about, especially out at the beach today in Jūrmala. Their arrogance in the bars and restaurants I’ve been in is astounding. Never seems such an arrogant, stuck-up people. Bit of a generalisation perhaps.

Every nationality has their stereotypes but you're right.

[Bristolhibby]

In Riga just now and a lot of Russian tourists kicking about, especially out at the beach today in Jūrmala. Their arrogance in the bars and restaurants I’ve been in is astounding. Never seems such an arrogant, stuck-up people. Bit of a generalisation perhaps.

Generally the ones you meet abroad are rich entitled gangsters (or family of gangsters).

I was skiing a few years back and two chaps had a couple of Roger Moors attending to them. Champagne and shots were flowing (if you’ve gone drinking in an alpine boozer it ain’t for the faint hearted). I thought they were going to screw them at the bar. Unbelievable behaviour.

J

[CyberSauzee]

While we were turning over Motherwell single file traffic has started moving across the bridge.

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1578779645746577408?t=7G4MFDAHhpqYqcapCBw4og&s=19

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/oalexanderdk/status/1578795431697715201?s=46&t=eV5secSMlnMHkaiNr_MUCQ

There has been lots of reports that military personnel in Russia have been getting arrested today.


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[Ryan91]

While we were turning over Motherwell single file traffic has started moving across the bridge.

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1578779645746577408?t=7G4MFDAHhpqYqcapCBw4og&s=19

Unlikely to be anything other than light civilian traffic going over the bridge for a while, so no heavy military equipment is likely to be crossing any time soon, significant disruption to what was for Russia, a relatively safe logistics corridor

[Stairway 2 7]

Russian military runs on train. They haven't got the tens of thousands of trucks ect to run of road. That's why HIMARS targeted rail logistics. Ukraine push back has been take out rail then take out the town that gets supplied by rail.

As long as the rail bridge is closed, the 70,000 soldiers in the south aren't being supplied. They need it fixed or they are done in the south

[Ozyhibby]

Russian military runs on train. They haven't got the tens of thousands of trucks ect to run of road. That's why HIMARS targeted rail logistics. Ukraine push back has been take out rail then take out the town that gets supplied by rail.

As long as the rail bridge is closed, the 70,000 soldiers in the south aren't being supplied. They need it fixed or they are done in the south

Maybe just an accident?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221008/b6f68e04a5571d81d5319db8ebfdd13e.jpg


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[Bristolhibby]

While we were turning over Motherwell single file traffic has started moving across the bridge.

https://twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1578779645746577408?t=7G4MFDAHhpqYqcapCBw4og&s=19

**** going over that bridge.

In fact if I were a Russian Civvie in Crimea I’d be out of their PDQ.

J

[AgentDaleCooper]

https://twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1578665161246011392?s=46&t=-JfaqnBjdN8Kb_35S3CYQw

I know some on here don’t like this sort of stuff but I’m posting anyway as I thought it funny. Ukrainian govt does like to troll the Russians.


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For what it's worth, it seems to me that Putin is the punchline, not poor conscripted soldiers, so entirely fair game.

[Stairway 2 7]

I think it was atacms missles that hit the bridge just like the crimean air bases. But news for Russia is it can be done again. I think they will let the Russians escape first before hitting again after some weeks

https://mobile.twitter.com/noclador/status/1578841265508331520

[Stairway 2 7]

Germany stepping it up


@nexta_tv
·
1h
Up to 15,000 #Ukrainian servicemen will undergo training in the #EU in winter, reports the newspaper
@WELTAMSONNTAG
. The training centers will be located in #Germany and #Poland.

@visegrad24
·
2h
Germany will transfer 100 tanks from Greece and Slovakia and IRIS-T air defense systems to Ukraine,

announces the German Defense Minister Christine Lambrecht, according to CNN

[Stairway 2 7]

Russia hitting cities with untargeted bombs into the middle of residential areas

https://mobile.twitter.com/olliecarroll/status/1578950615719620608

olliecarroll
Horrible. Russian speakers in Zaporizhzha, being defended by Russia once again. 17 dead. 40 injured


Stephen King
@StephenKing
After nine months of killing and in many cases torturing civilians; after razing whole towns; the Russians call blowing up a bridge "terrorism." That takes the ****ing cake

[makaveli1875]

Russia hitting cities with untargeted bombs into the middle of residential areas

https://mobile.twitter.com/olliecarroll/status/1578950615719620608

olliecarroll
Horrible. Russian speakers in Zaporizhzha, being defended by Russia once again. 17 dead. 40 injured


Stephen King
@StephenKing
After nine months of killing and in many cases torturing civilians; after razing whole towns; the Russians call blowing up a bridge "terrorism." That takes the ****ing cake

I often wonder when you see Lavrov and the bespectacled army guy - the Russian comical Ali actually believe the ***** they spout on TV or are they just completely detached from reality

[Stairway 2 7]

I often wonder when you see Lavrov and the bespectacled army guy - the Russian comical Ali actually believe the ***** they spout on TV or are they just completely detached from reality

I wonder that too. I think Putin generally might be detached from it, being fed constant crap. Surely the rest of the intelligent higher ups know they are lying, unless the don't want to believe

[Hibrandenburg]

I often wonder when you see Lavrov and the bespectacled army guy - the Russian comical Ali actually believe the ***** they spout on TV or are they just completely detached from reality

They know fine well what's going on, their job is to keep the lid on the truth.

There's been much said about the complicity of the Russian population, but most of them are being spoon fed their information, add a healthy dose of patriotism and then you have willing accessories, Putin is banking on that but the tide will turn.

[CyberSauzee]

There's a short video doing the rounds currently showing Russians disposing of civilian bodies into pits in Kupyansk. Not a pleasant site.

[Ozyhibby]

There's a short video doing the rounds currently showing Russians disposing of civilian bodies into pits in Kupyansk. Not a pleasant site.

It’s sickening.


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[WhileTheChief..]

Seen a couple of interviews suggesting the bridge thing could have been a genuine accident with trucks carrying ammo that exploded.

Having read about the state and age of some of the Russian equipment it’s feasible, especially when both sides are denying involvement, I think?

Other theories are UKR special forces, UKR insurgents in Crimea, or even a Russian Resistance force that apparently exists there.

I still think HIMARS was most likely. Either way, you gotta applaud the timing and the result.

Russia now needs to go back to ferrying supplies for the military, and everything that the millions of civilians living there need. Prior to the war, it all came from UKR. It just doesn’t seem possible.

[Stairway 2 7]

There's a short video doing the rounds currently showing Russians disposing of civilian bodies into pits in Kupyansk. Not a pleasant site.

I'm not going to try and find it, I've heard people say it reminds them of babyn yar

@Euan_MacDonald
·
1h
There's a video circulating of Russians executing Ukrainian civilians and dumping their bodies in a pit, just like the Nazis did.

Won't repost as it's stuff of nightmares.

But we're dealing with real fascists here - they have to be defeated. Ukraine can do it if it gets help.

[Stairway 2 7]

An indepth thread explaining why it was a missile that got the bridge

https://mobile.twitter.com/truth_tesla/status/1579065791307468800

[Stairway 2 7]

I don't think they will hit it again for a while seeing this

https://mobile.twitter.com/Tendar/status/1579094312058785792

Tendar
The line of cars trying to leave Crimea is now 6km long. #Ukraine #Crimea

[Ryan91]

Putin accusing Ukraine of "terrorism" over the Kerch Strait Bridge Attack.

:kettle:

Hope he enjoyed that late birthday present

[Bridge hibs]

Large explosions being reported in Kiev. Putin meeting his war council this morning to discuss retaliation to the ‘terrorist’ attack on the bridge, the **** just wont go away 🤬

[Jones28]

Russian missiles and kamikaze drone strikes battering Kyiv for the first time
in months. A deliberate effort by Russia to kill as many Ukrainians as possible.

[Stairway 2 7]

If Putin thinks this makes him look strong in retaliation he's mental. Ukraine hit a vital military target with metres precision. Russia as has hardly any guided weapons left so chucks everything at random parts of a city including a park.

Surely a retaliation would be on military targets not bairns walking to school like this. And yes I know for the usual few, I'm sure Ukraine does crimes too blah blah

https://mobile.twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1579356578926710785
@nexta_tv
A girl was recording a video message in #Kyiv and was hit by an explosive wave

[superfurryhibby]

If Putin thinks this makes him look strong in retaliation he's mental. Ukraine hit a vital military target with metres precision. Russia as has hardly any guided weapons left so chucks everything at random parts of a city including a park.

Surely a retaliation would be on military targets not bairns walking to school like this. And yes I know for the usual few, I'm sure Ukraine does crimes too blah blah

https://mobile.twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1579356578926710785
@nexta_tv
A girl was recording a video message in #Kyiv and was hit by an explosive wave

You diminish your contribution to this thread by picking imaginary fights and making childish comments about with people who might dare to disagree with some of your views.

[Ozyhibby]

You diminish your contribution to this thread by picking imaginary fights and making childish comments about with people who might dare to disagree with some of your views.

Don’t think he does to be honest.


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[DaveF]

Don’t think he does to be honest.


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Neither do I. The pathetic attempt to defend Russia by some on here is difficult to comprehend.

[LeithMike]

You diminish your contribution to this thread by picking imaginary fights and making childish comments about with people who might dare to disagree with some of your views.

Disagree. Really appreciate the updates from S27 .


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[Stairway 2 7]

You diminish your contribution to this thread by picking imaginary fights and making childish comments about with people who might dare to disagree with some of your views.

I'm angry this morning. Both sides soldiers will commit crimes that is war its horrible. One side is at least trying to hit military targets. Russia is just throwing unguided bombs into civilian areas like its ww2. Its no surprise as they flattened Allepo and Grozny.

I don't think this will help the Russian war effort in any way. If anything its like he knows the game is up. Ukrainians will never willfully be under Russian subjection after all these war crimes

[OldEast]

You diminish your contribution to this thread by picking imaginary fights and making childish comments about with people who might dare to disagree with some of your views.

Nope, you're wrong.

[Stairway 2 7]

Could be big or could be fearmongering. Lukashenko hinting at greater involvement in the war. Attacks have been staged from Belarus and their barracks are being used, but he's apparently pushed very hard to stop his troops being used. It's two fold he worries the soldiers revolt as his grip on the nation isn't as strong as in Russia. Secondly he only has 40,000 soldiers, if they die a revolution would be unchallenged

https://mobile.twitter.com/maryilyushina/status/1579395643982098432

Mary Ilyushina
@maryilyushina
Breaking: Belarus president Alexander Lukashenko and Vladimir Putin agreed to deploy a joint regional group of troops. Belarus allowed Russia to use its territory as staging ground but claimed it's not sending troops. May change now

Not clear yet where the group will operate but Lukashenko said "once the threat level reaches the current one we begin to use the grouping of Union State forces. The formation of this group has begun, it's been going on, I think, for two days

https://mobile.twitter.com/maryilyushina/status/1579395643982098432

[Bridge hibs]

According to BBC news 75 long range missile strikes fired plus hits in various other Ukranian cities, Putin seems to have a meeting with IAFA or something like that, no doubt they will be a gaggle of his ****ing yes men puppets 🤬

[Stairway 2 7]

According to BBC news 75 long range missile strikes fired plus hits in various other Ukranian cities, Putin seems to have a meeting with IAFA or something like that, no doubt they will be a gaggle of his ****ing yes men puppets 🤬

Only of them were 43 shot down apparently. Which shows 2 things, one they urgently need better air defenses to protect civilians. Secondly the fact that not one was near the front where he needs them militarily, shows he couldn't trust unguided rockets wouldn't hit his own troops.

His meeting has mainly been nonsense

@maxseddon
·
18m
Putin says Russia hit military, energy, and communications targets in response to the Crimea bridge attack.

"If attempts to carry out terrorist attacks continue, Russia's response will be severe and at the level of the threats facing it. Nobody should be in any doubt.

https://mobile.twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1579416620149374978
A precision missiles hit on a kids' playground

https://mobile.twitter.com/officejjsmart/status/1579415989577744384
officejjsmart
Putin’s 🇷🇺 “liberating” college students in Kyiv

[greenginger]

According to BBC news 75 long range missile strikes fired plus hits in various other Ukranian cities, Putin seems to have a meeting with IAFA or something like that, no doubt they will be a gaggle of his ****ing yes men puppets 🤬

Good time to retaliate and completely demolish the Kerch Bridge.

[hibsbollah]

Neither do I. The pathetic attempt to defend Russia by some on here is difficult to comprehend.

Who is ‘defending’ Putin on here and which posts? Or is disagreeing with some of the things posted on this thread the same as supporting Russia in the war?

[Ozyhibby]

Could be big or could be fearmongering. Lukashenko hinting at greater involvement in the war. Attacks have been staged from Belarus and their barracks are being used, but he's apparently pushed very hard to stop his troops being used. It's two fold he worries the soldiers revolt as his grip on the nation isn't as strong as in Russia. Secondly he only has 40,000 soldiers, if they die a revolution would be unchallenged

https://mobile.twitter.com/maryilyushina/status/1579395643982098432

Mary Ilyushina
@maryilyushina
Breaking: Belarus president Alexander Lukashenko and Vladimir Putin agreed to deploy a joint regional group of troops. Belarus allowed Russia to use its territory as staging ground but claimed it's not sending troops. May change now

Not clear yet where the group will operate but Lukashenko said "once the threat level reaches the current one we begin to use the grouping of Union State forces. The formation of this group has begun, it's been going on, I think, for two days

https://mobile.twitter.com/maryilyushina/status/1579395643982098432

Time to offer some serious support to the Belorussian opposition.


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[Ozyhibby]

Who is ‘defending’ Putin on here and which posts? Or is disagreeing with some of the things posted on this thread the same as supporting Russia in the war?

Nobody defending him (apart from skint Hibby) but plenty saying ‘nor defending a Putin but….’. Each to their own I guess.


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[The_Exile]

Looks like the German embassy in Kiev was hit. When a country gets an embassy in another country it's diplomatically widely accepted that the grounds and building are essentially their territory (I'm not sure of the setup in Kiev though, I know consulates can be housed in office blocks etc), so in effect, Russia has hit German soil so to speak. I'm not sure if this will be significant at all, but if Russia are saying their attacks are targeted then does it go down as a purposeful attack on Germany?

[hibsbollah]

Nobody defending him (apart from skint Hibby) but plenty saying ‘nor defending a Putin but….’. Each to their own I guess.


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So these ‘plenty’ people are apparently saying ‘im not(sic) defending Putin…’

In which case, maybe you should take them at their word and accept they are not defending Putin?

If you say ‘I hate Boris but I love the fact his government sent the Ukrainian army some weapons with a cool acronym the name of which escapes me which knocks out Russian tanks’ I’m not going to accuse you of supporting Boris.

[Bridge hibs]

The only way this is going to end is when Putin is gone, whether thats is naturally or by a bullet. He is not interested in peace, dont think he ever was and now I dont think he is even interested in Ukraine other than to kill and cause misery to anyone associated with the place, bombs, nuclear threats, more bombs and nuclear threats

I just wish (Ive said many times) that someone would be brave enough to take him out, Im feeling miserable here, I cant imagine what those poor souls in Ukraine are feeling like

[bringbackbenny]

Strikes inbound as BBC reporter on air


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=8JtY1F5X3ZU&feature=share&utm_source=EJGixIgBCJiu2KjB4oSJEQ

[Stairway 2 7]

Looks like the German embassy in Kiev was hit. When a country gets an embassy in another country it's diplomatically widely accepted that the grounds and building are essentially their territory (I'm not sure of the setup in Kiev though, I know consulates can be housed in office blocks etc), so in effect, Russia has hit German soil so to speak. I'm not sure if this will be significant at all, but if Russia are saying their attacks are targeted then does it go down as a purposeful attack on Germany?

Germany has sent or approved a huge amount of weapons over the last two weeks. Can only assume it will increase their resolve. Just announced one air defense system has arrived but unfortunately to late to save last night's civilians

@BMVg_Bundeswehr
Regierungsorganisation aus Deutschland
2m
Germany delivers the first of four IRIS-T SLM air defense systems to #Ukraine. The recent Russian #missile attacks on Kyiv and other cities shows how important the air defense capability for Ukraine's self-defense is.

[Stairway 2 7]

maxseddon
·
33m
Medvedev says the strikes on Ukraine today were "the first episode" and "there will be more." He says Russia must work to "dismantle Ukraine's political regime

[AgentDaleCooper]

Genuinely don't know how this can end without either Putin destroying Ukraine completely and declaring victory, or Putin being backed into a corner, in Ukraine or at home, and launching nukes. Honestly fear that any Ukrainian progress will be met with even more catastrophic aggression from Putin. The man sees himself as the embodiment of Russia, and Russia as, essentially, the world.

[hibsbollah]

Genuinely don't know how this can end without either Putin destroying Ukraine completely and declaring victory, or Putin being backed into a corner at home, in Ukraine or at home, and launching nukes. Honestly fear that any Ukrainian progress will be met with even more catastrophic aggression from Putin. The man sees himself as the embodiment of Russia, and Russia as, essentially, the world.

The nuclear endgame isn’t being widely discussed but it is extraordinarily close to being a possibility now. When I was a teenager everyone was terrified of nuclear devastation and everyone seemed to realise the implications for the survival of our species. Now we’re closer than we’ve every been (you can argue about 1962) but it’s definitely of that magnitude) and it’s barely part of the debate in relation to Russia and Ukraine. As a poster above alluded to, if some sort of black ops or internal regime change solution was initiated it might take us away from the brink.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/uaweapons/status/1579433829789765632?s=46&t=ZMfv1EEJibPrTv8HcjzDIw


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[Ozyhibby]

Genuinely don't know how this can end without either Putin destroying Ukraine completely and declaring victory, or Putin being backed into a corner, in Ukraine or at home, and launching nukes. Honestly fear that any Ukrainian progress will be met with even more catastrophic aggression from Putin. The man sees himself as the embodiment of Russia, and Russia as, essentially, the world.


The nuclear endgame isn’t being widely discussed but it is extraordinarily close to being a possibility now. When I was a teenager everyone was terrified of nuclear devastation and everyone seemed to realise the implications for the survival of our species. Now we’re closer than we’ve every been (you can argue about 1962) but it’s definitely of that magnitude) and it’s barely part of the debate in relation to Russia and Ukraine. As a poster above alluded to, if some sort of black ops or internal regime change solution was initiated it might take us away from the brink.

Even if you are correct, what would you do differently?


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[JeMeSouviens]

Genuinely don't know how this can end without either Putin destroying Ukraine completely and declaring victory, or Putin being backed into a corner at home, in Ukraine or at home, and launching nukes. Honestly fear that any Ukrainian progress will be met with even more catastrophic aggression from Putin. The man sees himself as the embodiment of Russia, and Russia as, essentially, the world.

I think you can safely rule that out given the performance of the Russian military so far, and sanctions are degrading it further all the time.

The nukes thing is scary, but it would be instantly suicidal for Putin and would quickly lead to the end of the Russian Federation and he/they know(s) it. Admittedly, possibly also the end of the rest of us too. We have to hope that there are enough sensible heads around Vlad to not let it happen. I think this ultimately ends in Russian regime change one way or another.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Even if you are correct, what would you do differently?


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Honestly don't have any answers.

[Stairway 2 7]

Even if you are correct, what would you do differently?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Two choices. Defeat him on the battlefield as they are doing or show a nuclear power it's ok to commit genocide as you have nukes. With the former he might use a nuke but I don't think he wants the end of Russia. In the latter he comes again next time he wants to invade as he knows the west will panic and say please don't nuke.

Luckily Ukrainians and all the Allies are going for the former so we have to assume the EU, US have a better idea than us

[hibsbollah]

Even if you are correct, what would you do differently?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m not in a position to ‘do’ anything, I’m a civilian commentator, not Ukrainian or Russian, with access to the same limited information as you are.

[Bristolhibby]

Looks like the German embassy in Kiev was hit. When a country gets an embassy in another country it's diplomatically widely accepted that the grounds and building are essentially their territory (I'm not sure of the setup in Kiev though, I know consulates can be housed in office blocks etc), so in effect, Russia has hit German soil so to speak. I'm not sure if this will be significant at all, but if Russia are saying their attacks are targeted then does it go down as a purposeful attack on Germany?

Just for balance I seem to remember on opening night of NATO strikes on Serbia we (the NATO coalition) wiped out the Chinese embassy in Belgrade.

Not saying any attacks are done on purpose, but it seems a strange one in both cases.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_bombing_of_the_Chinese_embassy_in_Be lgrade
J

[Stairway 2 7]

Just for balance I seem to remember on opening night of NATO strikes on Serbia we (the NATO coalition) wiped out the Chinese embassy in Belgrade.

Not saying any attacks are done on purpose, but it seems a strange one in both cases.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_bombing_of_the_Chinese_embassy_in_Be lgrade
J

Russias attacks weren't targeted on purpose, unless they think a playpark, museum cafe and middle of an intersection are military targets. They are unguided like the ones that have been chucked at the rest of the cities. They will have wished it didn't hit the embassy probably

[Bristolhibby]

Russias attacks weren't targeted on purpose, unless they think a playpark, museum cafe and middle of an intersection are military targets. They are unguided like the ones that have been chucked at the rest of the cities. They will have wished it didn't hit the embassy probably

I meant hitting the German Embassy. The Russian missiles were just indiscriminate. The fact that they were launched at a major set of cities is proof.

J

[Bristolhibby]

Germany has sent or approved a huge amount of weapons over the last two weeks. Can only assume it will increase their resolve. Just announced one air defense system has arrived but unfortunately to late to save last night's civilians

@BMVg_Bundeswehr
Regierungsorganisation aus Deutschland
2m
Germany delivers the first of four IRIS-T SLM air defense systems to #Ukraine. The recent Russian #missile attacks on Kyiv and other cities shows how important the air defense capability for Ukraine's self-defense is.

We (the West) needs to be doing better. It’s simply not good enough. Spare no expense. The Russians have to be defeated in Ukraine.

Our Rapier air defence system is going out of service. Gift it to Ukraine, train them up and get them shipped out.

J

[hibsbollah]

I meant hitting the German Embassy. The Russian missiles were just indiscriminate. The fact that they were launched at a major set of cities is proof.

J

I read that it hasn’t been operational as an embassy since February (when the invasion began, whether that is coincidental I’m not sure), so probably not the intended target.

[Stairway 2 7]

We (the West) needs to be doing better. It’s simply not good enough. Spare no expense. The Russians have to be defeated in Ukraine.

Our Rapier air defence system is going out of service. Gift it to Ukraine, train them up and get them shipped out.

J

Definitely. There can be really no excuse for not sending them, surely no one would be against defense systems to protect civilians. Its not a surprise to anyone this. Allepo had pretty much no modern military targets, Russia flattened killing thousands, Mariupol too actually

[superfurryhibby]

Neither do I. The pathetic attempt to defend Russia by some on here is difficult to comprehend.

Making things up, like you have just done. is perhaps more of a concern than what you perceive as posters defending Russia, which I have basically seen no one doing


Disagree. Really appreciate the updates from S27 .



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So do I, mostly. It's a good effort from Stairway 27 in terms of sticking with it and sharing a lot of info. Maybe not so much when it comes to making statements about people's beliefs, particularly when they express no such thing.



Nope, you're wrong.

I disagree. Show me a post defending Russia or Putin's actions, just the one will do.

[LeithMike]

Who is ‘defending’ Putin on here and which posts? Or is disagreeing with some of the things posted on this thread the same as supporting Russia in the war?

There might not be a straight out defence or justification of Putin but I have read plenty posts on here and in other spheres blaming others (US and NATO) for his conduct.

Those certainly come across as “defending” or “justifying” aspects of the conflict by blaming others for Putin’s current course of action.

Regardless of anything before, Russia’s attempted conquest is unlawful and terrorising and has to be stopped.


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[hibsbollah]

There might not be a straight out defence or justification of Putin but I have read plenty posts on here and in other spheres blaming others (US and NATO) for his conduct.



OK, just repetitive now, but if you've seen a post 'blaming others' for Putins actions, post a link.

[Hibrandenburg]

I think you can safely rule that out given the performance of the Russian military so far, and sanctions are degrading it further all the time.

The nukes thing is scary, but it would be instantly suicidal for Putin and would quickly lead to the end of the Russian Federation and he/they know(s) it. Admittedly, possibly also the end of the rest of us too. We have to hope that there are enough sensible heads around Vlad to not let it happen. I think this ultimately ends in Russian regime change one way or another.

Vlad is one of if not the richest men in the world, with the money he has he could have done anything he wanted. Instead he decided to oppress his people, invade a sovereign neighbour and start what tantamounts to genocide. That's the actions of a madman so there's no way to know what he's capable of. You just have to look at Hitler, Stalin, Sadam, Gaddafi to see that a population can tolerate unspeakable misery before they risk toppling a dictator, especially when they still enjoy popular support and even after that is depleted.

[AgentDaleCooper]

There might not be a straight out defence or justification of Putin but I have read plenty posts on here and in other spheres blaming others (US and NATO) for his conduct.

Those certainly come across as “defending” or “justifying” aspects of the conflict by blaming others for Putin’s current course of action.

Regardless of anything before, Russia’s attempted conquest is unlawful and terrorising and has to be stopped.


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This is the problem IMO - conflating causation (or contribution to causation) with personal responsibility. IMO, this is, ironically, symptomatic of a western liberal, i.e. individualist, world view.

Putin is 100% responsible for what he has done. The west significantly contributed to creating the environment in which soneone like Putin would come to power and act how he has acted. There is zero contradiction there.

Putin being an evil ******* doesn't absolve the west. It's not a black and white issue - it's shades of very, very dark gray, in terms of the power blocs involved.

I support Ukraine, but i absolutely cannot stomach it when peoole deny the west has done anything to cause this, because western hubris is one of the world's greatest evils.

[Stairway 2 7]

Can see another 3 pages of discussing what amount of blame the west has. Can wee not just copy and paste the last 5 page discussion as the opinions on both sides will be the same I presume.

I don't think anyone in anyway condones putin, but some people's only contribution is to mention nato blame, nazis in Ukrainian forces, Zelensky is dodgy with his taxes, what about Iraq.

Today Russia bombed indiscriminate civilian targets, yesterday videos released of Ukrainians being thrown in pits. Can we have one day where we just say Putin is **** full stop
https://mobile.twitter.com/noclador/status/1579073875593531392

[Ozyhibby]

Can see another 3 pages of discussing what amount of blame the west has. Can wee not just copy and paste the last 5 page discussion as the opinions on both sides will be the same I presume.

I don't think anyone in anyway condones putin, but some people's only contribution is to mention nato blame, nazis in Ukrainian forces, Zelensky is dodgy with his taxes, what about Iraq.

Today Russia bombed indiscriminate civilian targets, yesterday videos released of Ukrainians being thrown in pits. Can we have one day where we just say Putin is **** full stop
https://mobile.twitter.com/noclador/status/1579073875593531392

[emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]


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[AgentDaleCooper]

Can see another 3 pages of discussing what amount of blame the west has. Can wee not just copy and paste the last 5 page discussion as the opinions on both sides will be the same I presume.

I don't think anyone in anyway condones putin, but some people's only contribution is to mention nato blame, nazis in Ukrainian forces, Zelensky is dodgy with his taxes, what about Iraq.

Today Russia bombed indiscriminate civilian targets, yesterday videos released of Ukrainians being thrown in pits. Can we have one day where we just say Putin is **** full stop
https://mobile.twitter.com/noclador/status/1579073875593531392
I agree, but would add to that that people should also be wiser than accusing folk of defending Putin when that is clearly horse ****.

[hibsbollah]

I agree, but would add to that that people should also be wiser than accusing folk of defending Putin when that is clearly horse ****.

:agree: Utter horse ****. And shameful that those involved haven't stepped back from it.

[Stairway 2 7]

I agree, but would add to that that people should also be wiser than accusing folk of defending Putin when that is clearly horse ****.

No one would defend Putin I'm certain, but appeasement and deflection would definitely please him. F him, a bullet or the Hague is needed.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221010/d245778be32186643db03e94865b0c51.jpg


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[AgentDaleCooper]

No one would defend Putin I'm certain, but appeasement and deflection would definitely please him. F him, a bullet or the Hague is needed.

Again, i agree, but i'm not going to drown the truth, or at least what i see as the truth, just to piss him off. That would be almost Putinesque.

[Stairway 2 7]

Again, i agree, but i'm not going to drown the truth, or at least what i see as the truth, just to piss him off. That would be almost Putinesque.

Definitely agree. If someone is subjective they would speak about the bad in both and in this war 90% would be pointing out the constant Russian war crimes. If they only ever pointed to the faults in Ukraine and the West I'd say they are an apologist

[Rumble de Thump]

Sadly there's been a quite a bit of very obvious misinformation and Kremlin propaganda arrogantly regurgitated on this thread. Arrogance does breed ignorance unfortunately. It's not helpful.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221010/d245778be32186643db03e94865b0c51.jpg


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Disagree with this. Ukraine had no nato troops, Russia had 150,000 troops on the border that many said would never invade. Plus the leader they elected did it on a mandate of closer ties with the EU, he then said f u all were siding with Russia. So the people revolted

Winter on Fire: Ukraine's Fight for Freedom
Is a brilliant documentary on Netflix I'd recommend

The Russian speaking Ukrainians are dying fighting Putin, just look at how the treated the Russian invaders in Russian speaking Kharkiv

[makaveli1875]

Can see another 3 pages of discussing what amount of blame the west has. Can wee not just copy and paste the last 5 page discussion as the opinions on both sides will be the same I presume.

I don't think anyone in anyway condones putin, but some people's only contribution is to mention nato blame, nazis in Ukrainian forces, Zelensky is dodgy with his taxes, what about Iraq.

Today Russia bombed indiscriminate civilian targets, yesterday videos released of Ukrainians being thrown in pits. Can we have one day where we just say Putin is **** full stop
https://mobile.twitter.com/noclador/status/1579073875593531392

There’s no excuse for what Putin has done , none at all . Nothing justifies the level of violence he’s unleashed on ordinary people .
He’s turned entire cities to rubble , attacked nuclear power stations , dams , schools , hospitals , shopping centers , peoples houses . He’s a James hunt , pure evil and a pound shop hitler .

[hibsbollah]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221010/d245778be32186643db03e94865b0c51.jpg


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That's my post, pre-invasion. I stand by all of it. Stevie and me argued at that time about what constitutes 'a pro-Russia Govt', but the election results from that time were fairly clear that there was a clear split along regional lines in who voted for who. And at that point NATOs actions in bringing troops were the border were exacerbating tensions, in my opinion.

Its pretty weak to drag up a pre-invasion post to make a case that im defending Putins actions AFTER invasion:greengrin I think we can assume there are no ACTUAL making excuses-for-Putin's actions' posts.

[Ozyhibby]

That's my post, pre-invasion. I stand by all of it. Stevie and me argued at that time about what constitutes 'a pro-Russia Govt', but the election results from that time were fairly clear that there was a clear split along regional lines in who voted for who. And at that point NATOs actions in bringing troops were the border were exacerbating tensions, in my opinion.

Its pretty weak to drag up a pre-invasion post to make a case that im defending Putins actions AFTER invasion:greengrin I think we can assume there are no ACTUAL making excuses-for-Putin's actions' posts.

The point I’m making is that nothing the west has done justifies what Putin has done. Nothing NATO has done justifies what Putin has done. So why do people constantly bring it up. There is zero justification for this war.
There is also only one course of action now for the west to take and that is to make sure Ukraine wins.


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[McSwanky]

Can see another 3 pages of discussing what amount of blame the west has. Can wee not just copy and paste the last 5 page discussion as the opinions on both sides will be the same I presume.

A wee bit rich when you used one of your factual posts to have a dig at those who have suggested there's slightly more to this than simply good vs evil. It had calmed down before your comment!


And yes I know for the usual few, I'm sure Ukraine does crimes too blah blah

[hibsbollah]

The point I’m making is that nothing the west has done justifies what Putin has done. Nothing NATO has done justifies what Putin has done. So why do people constantly bring it up. There is zero justification for this war.
There is also only one course of action now for the west to take and that is to make sure Ukraine wins.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who's 'constantly' bringing NATO up? You've managed to dredge something up from (i think) 9 months ago. I think my last contribution to this thread before this recent spate of snide comments was when I posted a link to something about Russian conscripting minorities en masse from Central Asia.

[Stairway 2 7]

That's my post, pre-invasion. I stand by all of it. Stevie and me argued at that time about what constitutes 'a pro-Russia Govt', but the election results from that time were fairly clear that there was a clear split along regional lines in who voted for who. And at that point NATOs actions in bringing troops were the border were exacerbating tensions, in my opinion.

Its pretty weak to drag up a pre-invasion post to make a case that im defending Putins actions AFTER invasion:greengrin I think we can assume there are no ACTUAL making excuses-for-Putin's actions' posts.

In the 1991 independence election every region voted to stay Ukrainian including crimea. Here's the 2019 election run off results Zelensky horsed it 73% 24%. He won landslides in all of Eastern Ukraine. Do you know why, because a lot happened since 2014 like Russia interference in their politics.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MartiniTower/status/1577845497892687873

Putin thought the same eastern Ukraine are pro Russia. Then they entered and they were met with molotovs and the public standing in front of tanks. Now we see the videos of people in tears when parts of eastern Ukraine is liberated.

Surprised you stand by it because its been proved wrong tbh

[Hibrandenburg]

No one would defend Putin I'm certain, but appeasement and deflection would definitely please him. F him, a bullet or the Hague is needed.

As would infighting and accusations that other allied nations aren't doing enough to help Ukraine.

[superfurryhibby]

Sadly there's been a quite a bit of very obvious misinformation and Kremlin propaganda arrogantly regurgitated on this thread. Arrogance does breed ignorance unfortunately. It's not helpful.

Irony beyond irony bypass.


Definitely agree. If someone is subjective they would speak about the bad in both and in this war 90% would be pointing out the constant Russian war crimes. If they only ever pointed to the faults in Ukraine and the West I'd say they are an apologist

No one has done this, have they?

[Stairway 2 7]

A wee bit rich when you used one of your factual posts to have a dig at those who have suggested there's slightly more to this than simply good vs evil. It had calmed down before your comment!

Genocide and the public getting blootered does that too you. It's Ukraine vs evil. Yes all armies including ours have horrible people, but this is a systematic slaughter. As I've said if the same people commented maybe 50% anti what Putin has done then 50% I wonder if we caused this, then even that would be a huge improvement

[Stairway 2 7]

As would infighting and accusations that other allied nations aren't doing enough to help Ukraine.

Look at my last 4 posts about Germany. All praise they have totally stepped up, pressure from the greens and many in the sdp. Germany today agreed to a huge package including modern air defense. They were slow but are now up there with anybody

[McSwanky]

Genocide and the public getting blootered does that too you. It's Ukraine vs evil. Yes all armies including ours have horrible people, but this is a systematic slaughter. As I've said if the same people commented maybe 50% anti what Putin has done then 50% I wonder if we caused this, then even that would be a huge improvementMaybe 'they' feel their wider points regarding the development of this situation over decades are worthy of discussion or at least consideration. But maybe this thread isn't for 'them.' Who decides?

[hibsbollah]

In the 1991 independence election every region voted to stay Ukrainian including crimea. Here's the 2019 election run off results Zelensky horsed it 73% 24%. He won landslides in all of Eastern Ukraine. Do you know why, because a lot happened since 2014 like Russia interference in their politics.
https://mobile.twitter.com/MartiniTower/status/1577845497892687873

Putin thought the same eastern Ukraine are pro Russia. Then they entered and they were met with molotovs and the public standing in front of tanks. Now we see the videos of people in tears when parts of eastern Ukraine is liberated.

Surprised you stand by it because its been proved wrong tbh

Obviously im not going to argue the toss about the 2019 numbers, or what it did or didnt represent, now. Because then i'd be doing exactly what you're falsely accusing me of, making excuses for his, later, actions.

[Hibrandenburg]

Look at my last 4 posts about Germany. All praise they have totally stepped up, pressure from the greens and many in the sdp. Germany today agreed to a huge package including modern air defense. They were slow but are now up there with anybody

They were slow for reasons you rejected back then. But you can't shake off 70+ years of having a pacifist psyche overnight. Their first reaction was to try and care for the victims, you said it was self interest. I'm not having a go, I'm just hoping you've reconsidered your opinion on how difficult it was for the Germans to come to terms with the fact that their pacifist national identity had to change.

[Stairway 2 7]

They were slow for reasons you rejected back then. But you can't shake off 70+ years of having a pacifist psyche overnight. Their first reaction was to try and care for the victims, you said it was self interest. I'm not having a go, I'm just hoping you've reconsidered your opinion on how difficult it was for the Germans to come to terms with the fact that their pacifist national identity had to change.

I agree but sweeden, Japan and Switzerland and others did too. I think like the tories sdp were far to close to russia. We let them have free reign over London. I just think Germany has a responsibility as a big part of the EU. They are very much stepping up now, the best air defenses so far. It's uk I've heard nothing about in over 3 weeks, probably due to them falling apart

[hibsbollah]

But maybe this thread isn't for 'them.' Who decides?

Maybe two threads is the way to go?

'Ukraine Thread! Only Tweets That Directly Relate to Actual Battlefield Events!'

and

'Other Ukraine Thread! Wider Contextual and Geopolitical Issues and Other Shades of Opinion Welcome Without Being Called A Putin Apologist!'

Probably perpetuating the polarisation, eh naw.

[Stairway 2 7]

Maybe 'they' feel their wider points regarding the development of this situation over decades are worthy of discussion or at least consideration. But maybe this thread isn't for 'them.' Who decides?

It's definitely worth discussing but probably a bit strange if it's your only input. It not about defending the west either as they are guilty as charged on 100 other things, 300,000 dead in Iraq, what happening in Iran is directly due to us overthrowing a government, hundreds of thousands died from UK austerity and thousands will die due to lack of support this winter. I just believe Putin wanted to expand his empire and he's done it by flattening cities and lives and its inexcusable

[hibsbollah]

The point I’m making is that nothing the west has done justifies what Putin has done. Nothing NATO has done justifies what Putin has done. So why do people constantly bring it up. There is zero justification for this war.
There is also only one course of action now for the west to take and that is to make sure Ukraine wins.


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Also back in February you said that Natos actions would be no justification for invading a sovereign country and I said 'of course, that goes without saying'.
Unfortunate that you didn't choose to dredge that post up instead of the other one. It could have saved a bit of time:agree:

[Smartie]

It's definitely worth discussing but probably a bit strange if it's your only input. It not about defending the west either as they are guilty as charged on 100 other things, 300,000 dead in Iraq, what happening in Iran is directly due to us overthrowing a government, hundreds of thousands died from UK austerity and thousands will die due to lack of support this winter. I just believe Putin wanted to expand his empire and he's done it by flattening cities and lives and its inexcusable

The fact that it’s inexcusable makes it less worthy of comment.

The missile attacks on the civilian population are abhorrent. The mass graves and the events may have led to them are truly abhorrent. There’s only so often this point can really be made.

The other stuff is where conversation and difference of opinion is interesting.

There’s always room to ask the question “why”? Why does Putin want to expand his empire? Ego? Greed? Nationalism? Nazism? Fear?

The discussion of which in no way excuses the actions of him, his generals or his army.

The idea that this is all the fault of one man lends itself to the adoption of the highly idealistic solution being that when he goes, the problem goes. Some may believe that to be true, some may believe otherwise.

I find it hard to get my head around how we’ve got to a position like this in the present day - genocide and talk of nuclear Armageddon. It doesn’t feel unthinkable to me that Russia could, and should, be part of a peaceful world with improving living standards for all, yet here we are.

We should welcome conversation and difference of opinion on the subject. It’s one of the many things that we undoubtedly do a bit better than Russia.

[makaveli1875]

This thread has a tendency to blow up from time to time and it must surely be the only thread in the holy ground we’re actually all on the same side . Chill out will yous

[Stairway 2 7]

This thread has a tendency to blow up from time to time and it must surely be the only thread in the holy ground we’re actually all on the same side . Chill out will yous

😆 🤣 good point. I guess during world war 2 it would have been wild. Probably similar to the covid thread in that no one wanted people to die, but it was such a powerful subject that it regularly had big differences of opinions

[Smartie]

This thread has a tendency to blow up from time to time and it must surely be the only thread in the holy ground we’re actually all on the same side . Chill out will yous

Fair shout.

[Stairway 2 7]

Imagine what it would be like if hibs weren't flying and heart's had won more than 4 in 20 games

[hibsbollah]

This thread has a tendency to blow up from time to time and it must surely be the only thread in the holy ground we’re actually all on the same side . Chill out will yous

Fair point.

[James310]

Imagine what it would be like if hibs weren't flying and heart's had won more than 4 in 20 games

I just want to know who is paying you and is it more than me.

[superfurryhibby]

The fact that it’s inexcusable makes it less worthy of comment.

The missile attacks on the civilian population are abhorrent. The mass graves and the events may have led to them are truly abhorrent. There’s only so often this point can really be made.

The other stuff is where conversation and difference of opinion is interesting.

There’s always room to ask the question “why”? Why does Putin want to expand his empire? Ego? Greed? Nationalism? Nazism? Fear?

The discussion of which in no way excuses the actions of him, his generals or his army.

The idea that this is all the fault of one man lends itself to the adoption of the highly idealistic solution being that when he goes, the problem goes. Some may believe that to be true, some may believe otherwise.

I find it hard to get my head around how we’ve got to a position like this in the present day - genocide and talk of nuclear Armageddon. It doesn’t feel unthinkable to me that Russia could, and should, be part of a peaceful world with improving living standards for all, yet here we are.

We should welcome conversation and difference of opinion on the subject. It’s one of the many things that we undoubtedly do a bit better than Russia.

Good post.

Imagine considering the likes of the rise of National Socialism in Germany without context. How else do we learn from the lessons of history (although, I do wonder if "we" ever do anyway) without looking at the why's.

[makaveli1875]

Imagine what it would be like if hibs weren't flying and heart's had won more than 4 in 20 games

Yikes , doesn’t bare thinking about

[cabbageandribs1875]

Poland advising it's citizens to leave Belarus Poland advises its citizens to leave Belarus | Reuters (https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/poland-advises-its-citizens-leave-belarus-2022-10-10/)


"We recommend that Polish citizens staying on the territory of the Republic of Belarus leave its territory with available commercial and private means," the government said in guidance for travellers published on its website.

[AgentDaleCooper]

The point I’m making is that nothing the west has done justifies what Putin has done. Nothing NATO has done justifies what Putin has done. So why do people constantly bring it up. There is zero justification for this war.
There is also only one course of action now for the west to take and that is to make sure Ukraine wins.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

again...


This is the problem IMO - conflating causation (or contribution to causation) with personal responsibility. IMO, this is, ironically, symptomatic of a western liberal, i.e. individualist, world view.


it's not about justifying Putin on any level.

[AgentDaleCooper]

Definitely agree. If someone is subjective they would speak about the bad in both and in this war 90% would be pointing out the constant Russian war crimes. If they only ever pointed to the faults in Ukraine and the West I'd say they are an apologist

I get what you're saying here - I think part of what's going on is both sides feel something along the lines of "I recognise that what the other person is saying has at least some validity, but over stating that is dangerous", and as such, are a bit like a dog with a bone in terms of trying to get people with the other perspective to accept that there is some flaw in how they are perceiving things, and undersell the importance of the other side's perspective (in my case, the reason being that to me it's completely abundantly obvious that Putin is 100% an evil bell end - but I recognise from your point of view, without wanting to put words in your mouth, that it's just as dangerous to understate this because of conspiracy theorists and the like).

I think the place I'm looking at things from is that Western Liberalism is both colossally toxic and colossally unaware of the extent to which this is the case. I think it gives rise to situations like Hitler and Putin, not to mention global warming and the apocalypse in general. I think NATO is essentially a form of soft imperialism, and I think we're all headed for the apocalypse.

I'm not saying any of the above is correct or true, nor am I trying to persuade you of it...I'm just saying, that's where I'm coming from. I'm making zero apologies for Putin. The man is a complete c-word. I just think our global financial system and utterly self-un-aware moral code when it comes to other countries produces the circumstances in which absolute bams appear. I do, also, totally accept that Russia has it's own history, and it's own capacity for creating hellish circumstances and individuals - I just think that we need to get our own house in order too, and urgently, whilst supporting Ukraine however we can.

Anyway...I'm actually seeing that the updates on this thread are interesting, so thanks for those, and I'm genuinely not looking to pick fights :aok:

[Stairway 2 7]

I get what you're saying here - I think part of what's going on is both sides feel something along the lines of "I recognise that what the other person is saying has at least some validity, but over stating that is dangerous", and as such, are a bit like a dog with a bone in terms of trying to get people with the other perspective to accept that there is some flaw in how they are perceiving things, and undersell the importance of the other side's perspective (in my case, the reason being that to me it's completely abundantly obvious that Putin is 100% an evil bell end - but I recognise from your point of view, without wanting to put words in your mouth, that it's just as dangerous to understate this because of conspiracy theorists and the like).

I think the place I'm looking at things from is that Western Liberalism is both colossally toxic and colossally unaware of the extent to which this is the case. I think it gives rise to situations like Hitler and Putin, not to mention global warming and the apocalypse in general. I think NATO is essentially a form of soft imperialism, and I think we're all headed for the apocalypse.

I'm not saying any of the above is correct or true, nor am I trying to persuade you of it...I'm just saying, that's where I'm coming from. I'm making zero apologies for Putin. The man is a complete c-word. I just think our global financial system and utterly self-un-aware moral code when it comes to other countries produces the circumstances in which absolute bams appear. I do, also, totally accept that Russia has it's own history, and it's own capacity for creating hellish circumstances and individuals - I just think that we need to get our own house in order too, and urgently, whilst supporting Ukraine however we can.

Anyway...I'm actually seeing that the updates on this thread are interesting, so thanks for those, and I'm genuinely not looking to pick fights :aok:

That's a great post. 👍

[Stairway 2 7]

https://mobile.twitter.com/noclador/status/1579546354418089984

noclador
Now we also see the russians leading the blindfolded and handcuffed Ukrainians to the execution location

[Ozyhibby]

I get what you're saying here - I think part of what's going on is both sides feel something along the lines of "I recognise that what the other person is saying has at least some validity, but over stating that is dangerous", and as such, are a bit like a dog with a bone in terms of trying to get people with the other perspective to accept that there is some flaw in how they are perceiving things, and undersell the importance of the other side's perspective (in my case, the reason being that to me it's completely abundantly obvious that Putin is 100% an evil bell end - but I recognise from your point of view, without wanting to put words in your mouth, that it's just as dangerous to understate this because of conspiracy theorists and the like).

I think the place I'm looking at things from is that Western Liberalism is both colossally toxic and colossally unaware of the extent to which this is the case. I think it gives rise to situations like Hitler and Putin, not to mention global warming and the apocalypse in general. I think NATO is essentially a form of soft imperialism, and I think we're all headed for the apocalypse.

I'm not saying any of the above is correct or true, nor am I trying to persuade you of it...I'm just saying, that's where I'm coming from. I'm making zero apologies for Putin. The man is a complete c-word. I just think our global financial system and utterly self-un-aware moral code when it comes to other countries produces the circumstances in which absolute bams appear. I do, also, totally accept that Russia has it's own history, and it's own capacity for creating hellish circumstances and individuals - I just think that we need to get our own house in order too, and urgently, whilst supporting Ukraine however we can.

Anyway...I'm actually seeing that the updates on this thread are interesting, so thanks for those, and I'm genuinely not looking to pick fights :aok:

That’s a decent post. I don’t agree with parts of it but it’s a fair point of view to have.
I think democracy is the least worst system of govt available and we have to stick with it while trying to improve. There are democracies out there who do a far better job than what we experience here. We need to try move towards their version of it. Constant improvement is the only way forward.
I’d say the west behaves better today than 50 years ago. And those 50 years ago behaved better than 100 year ago. Every system has its flaws but at least with democracy we can pull back easier from our horrendous mistakes.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/maks_nafo_fella/status/1579540950375768065?s=46&t=X6YDVqTroULdBg-OhioYMA

Back on track. Fair bit of damage to those train tracks.


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[StevieC]

That's my post, pre-invasion. I stand by all of it. Stevie and me argued at that time about what constitutes 'a pro-Russia Govt', but the election results from that time were fairly clear that there was a clear split along regional lines in who voted for who. And at that point NATOs actions in bringing troops were the border were exacerbating tensions, in my opinion.

Its pretty weak to drag up a pre-invasion post to make a case that im defending Putins actions AFTER invasion:greengrin I think we can assume there are no ACTUAL making excuses-for-Putin's actions' posts.

Yanukovych was elected into government and spent the first 3 years pushing to join the EU. During that time he, and his friends in power, fleeced the treasury and set themselves up nicely. When their corruption eventually broke the bank, they turned to Russia for a bung. The condition of that bung was to stop trying to join Europe and to move towards joining the Russian Federation. Obviously, when Yanukovych brought that to Parliament the demonstrations started (and I was in Ukraine when these demonstrations were going on in all the major cities, I was caught up in one on a visit to Zaporozhia). In Kyiv, demonstrations were met by force, and backed up with Russian snipers.

To say that a democratically elected government was overthrown against the will of those that put them there is a very long way off what actually happened.
I’ve personally visited the “Museum of Corruption” that Yanukovych ploughed so much of tax payers money into. An extravagant palace built with corrupt money .. although not a patch on the one that Putin has built 🙄

[superfurryhibby]

https://mobile.twitter.com/noclador/status/1579546354418089984

noclador
Now we also see the russians leading the blindfolded and handcuffed Ukrainians to the execution location

That video is being described by some as fake. Watch closely and see if you see why some people are saying that.

[The Tubs]

I think the place I'm looking at things from is that Western Liberalism is both colossally toxic and colossally unaware of the extent to which this is the case. I think it gives rise to situations like Hitler and Putin, not to mention global warming and the apocalypse in general. I think NATO is essentially a form of soft imperialism, and I think we're all headed for the apocalypse.



A thought experiment: if there wasn’t liberalism, how much would you know about global warming?

[Stairway 2 7]

That video is being described by some as fake. Watch closely and see if you see why some people are saying that.

Literally every video of a war crime committed by Russia has been by Russias thousands of employed trolls. I had to argue for days on here to say Bucha wasn't fake. This was after satellite imagery geolocation, reports with survivors, getman intercepted conversations.

Yesterday when it came out it was half as long and Russians defence was it could be Ukranians. Now the second video has come out showing Russian soldiers leading them there. They have had the dignity to say sorry all our posts Yesterday were clearly wrong. They have moved on to the next line something about it could be azov dressed as Russians killing Ukrainelians or red bands.

Look at the people commenting this nonsense, they all follow about 5 people and they don't have a picture of themselves as an avatar. Put it this way the way the poor guys head bounces around he's clearly unconscious or dead before as he doesn't react. It could be Ukranians in Russian uniform or it could be Russians who have already did it hundreds of times this war.

There's been dozens of bodies of civilians found buried alive by independent inspectors. They aren't all lying, there is now a mountain of evidence

[superfurryhibby]

Literally every video of a war crime committed by Russia has been by Russias thousands of employed trolls. I had to argue for days on here to say Bucha wasn't fake. This was after satellite imagery geolocation, reports with survivors, getman intercepted conversations.

Yesterday when it came out it was half as long and Russians defence was it could be Ukranians. Now the second video has come out showing Russian soldiers leading them there. They have had the dignity to say sorry all our posts Yesterday were clearly wrong. They have moved on to the next line something about it could be azov dressed as Russians killing Ukrainelians or red bands.

Look at the people commenting this nonsense, they all follow about 5 people and they don't have a picture of themselves as an avatar. Put it this way the way the poor guys head bounces around he's clearly unconscious or dead before as he doesn't react. It could be Ukranians in Russian uniform or it could be Russians who have already did it hundreds of times this war.

There's been dozens of bodies of civilians found buried alive by independent inspectors. They aren't all lying, there is now a mountain of evidence

I don’t watch too much of this kind of stuff, it’s too disturbing for me.

There must be a lot of material on social media, so of course some will be faked for propaganda purposes.

With this one, there were a few things. I didn’t get why you would lead someone up a steep slope to then shot them and let the roll down into what was intended as the grave when you could just shot them there and then.

What I did notice is that one of the “corpses” was clearly very much alive. It was clearly visible when the body falls into the sand, one of the bodies already moves its head back and away from the incomer.

I can’t explain it, but it casts doubt on the other events in the clip. I agree that the victim is bouncing around and that it’s impossible to tell who is doing the killing, other than semi uniformed men.

[Stairway 2 7]

I don’t watch too much of this kind of stuff, it’s too disturbing for me.

There must be a lot of material on social media, so of course some will be faked for propaganda purposes.

With this one, there were a few things. I didn’t get why you would lead someone up a steep slope to then shot them and let the roll down into what was intended as the grave when you could just shot them there and then.

What I did notice is that one of the “corpses” was clearly very much alive. It was clearly visible when the body falls into the sand, one of the bodies already moves its head back and away from the incomer.

I can’t explain it, but it casts doubt on the other events in the clip. I agree that the victim is bouncing around and that it’s impossible to tell who is doing the killing, other than semi uniformed men.

Its Russian uniform and a wagner patch on one of them. They have geolocated it to Kherson, but haven't got the correct date which is important I guess. The boy is definitely dead or in a horrible condition, there has need dozens of bodies found buried alive unfortunately.

It will be confirmed in due course. But even if it is Russians I guess it could be put down to soldiers committing atrocities like all wars. I think the Russians firing bombs into cities like yesterday is actually worse, as its from the top

[hibsbollah]

GCHQ chief on radio 4 this morning thinks the Russians still pose a threat; On the recent spate of missile attacks, Russia "still has a very capable military machine. It can launch weapons. It has deep, deep stocks and expertise. And yet, it is very broadly stretched in Ukraine".

[superfurryhibby]

Its Russian uniform and a wagner patch on one of them. They have geolocated it to Kherson, but haven't got the correct date which is important I guess. The boy is definitely dead or in a horrible condition, there has need dozens of bodies found buried alive unfortunately.

It will be confirmed in due course. But even if it is Russians I guess it could be put down to soldiers committing atrocities like all wars. I think the Russians firing bombs into cities like yesterday is actually worse, as its from the top

Ageed, the attacks on cities are random acts of terror and clearly come from senior command rather than psychotic grunts on the rampage.

[Stairway 2 7]

@haynesdeborah
NEW: Russia is running out of weapons for its war in Ukraine and the costs to the Kremlin are “staggering” in terms of soldiers and equipment lost, UK spy chief Sir Jeremy Fleming, head of
@GCHQ
, will say in a speech on Tuesday

The
@GCHQ
director will say Ukrainian armed forces are “turning the tide” on the physical battlefield as well as in cyberspace.
In a speech at
@RUSI_org
, he will call decision-making by President Vladimir Putin “flawed

Russia’s “gains are being reversed”, Sir Jeremy will say, according to exerts of the speech. “The costs to Russia – in people and equipment are staggering. We know – and Russian commanders on the ground know – that their supplies and munitions are running out.

The UK spy chief will say: “Russia’s forces are exhausted. The use of prisoners to reinforce, and now the mobilisation of tens of thousands of inexperienced conscripts, speaks of a desperate situation

Sir Jeremy will add: “And the Russian population has started to understand that too. They’re seeing just how badly Putin has misjudged the situation. They’re fleeing the draft, realising they can no longer travel

“They know their access to modern technologies and external influences will be drastically restricted. And they are feeling the extent of the dreadful human cost of his war of choice

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/10/gchq-head-putin-making-strategic-errors-ukraine-russia?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1665436185

[hibsbollah]

@haynesdeborah
NEW: Russia is running out of weapons for its war in Ukraine and the costs to the Kremlin are “staggering” in terms of soldiers and equipment lost, UK spy chief Sir Jeremy Fleming, head of
@GCHQ
, will say in a speech on Tuesday

The
@GCHQ
director will say Ukrainian armed forces are “turning the tide” on the physical battlefield as well as in cyberspace.
In a speech at
@RUSI_org
, he will call decision-making by President Vladimir Putin “flawed

Russia’s “gains are being reversed”, Sir Jeremy will say, according to exerts of the speech. “The costs to Russia – in people and equipment are staggering. We know – and Russian commanders on the ground know – that their supplies and munitions are running out.

The UK spy chief will say: “Russia’s forces are exhausted. The use of prisoners to reinforce, and now the mobilisation of tens of thousands of inexperienced conscripts, speaks of a desperate situation

Sir Jeremy will add: “And the Russian population has started to understand that too. They’re seeing just how badly Putin has misjudged the situation. They’re fleeing the draft, realising they can no longer travel

“They know their access to modern technologies and external influences will be drastically restricted. And they are feeling the extent of the dreadful human cost of his war of choice

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/oct/10/gchq-head-putin-making-strategic-errors-ukraine-russia?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1665436185

I listened to the entire interview and it was significantly more cautious than that, he was extremely clear that Russias military is still well supplied and stocked and represents a threat.

[Stairway 2 7]

I listened to the entire interview and it was significantly more cautious than that, he was extremely clear that Russias military is still well supplied and stocked and represents a threat.

It's not about being stocked war is basically logistics. Russia needs railways. Ukraine is cutting the railway then taking the ground, constantly the last month. They also can't store ammo within hundreds of miles as HIMARS blow it up

There are a number of articles asking why the cia and Western intelligence agencies over estimated Russia so badly. To be fair ex heads of military like Mark Hertling, Mike Ryan and military experts like Philips OBrien have been much better. They have said since day one that the tide would turn at the end of the summer and Russia would be defeated.

The thing is Russia can't replace anything they use, they are getting weaker by the day, Ukraine on the other hand are getting stronger.

The proof is in when Ukraine started hitting ammo dumps, Russian artillery has fallen of a cliff and ground is being lost at a constant rate.

Of course Russia is dangerous its pretty much so obvious it doesn't need said. Thousands of Ukrainian soldiers will lose their lives but most who got it right all the way along say they will win.

Hopefully Mike Martins run of getting it spot on continues this is how he says it will be won
https://mobile.twitter.com/ThreshedThought/status/1577033853180387328

[hibsbollah]

It's not about being stocked war is basically logistics. Russia needs railways. Ukraine is cutting the railway then taking the ground, constantly the last month. They also can't store ammo within hundreds of miles as HIMARS blow it up

There are a number of articles asking why the cia and Western intelligence agencies over estimated Russia so badly. To be fair ex heads of military like Mark Hertling, Mike Ryan and military experts like Philips OBrien have been much better. They have said since day one that the tide would turn at the end of the summer and Russia would be defeated.

The thing is Russia can't replace anything they use, they are getting weaker by the day, Ukraine on the other hand are getting stronger.

The proof is in when Ukraine started hitting ammo dumps, Russian artillery has fallen of a cliff and ground is being lost at a constant rate.

Of course Russia is dangerous its pretty much so obvious it doesn't need said. Thousands of Ukrainian soldiers will lose their lives but most who got it right all the way along say they will win.

Hopefully Mike Martins run of getting it spot on continues this is how he says it will be won
https://mobile.twitter.com/ThreshedThought/status/1577033853180387328

'It doesnt need to be said' that Russia is still a threat is a matter of opinion isnt it? It depends if you think the celebratory 'Ukraine have it in the bag' tone is dangerous in that its outcompeting other analysis. And thats been going on since the Spring from some sources, as we've discussed. Its when Russia decides to change tactics again, (like the 'limited encirclement' tactics that won them some territory in the summer) that we'll know how the next stage of the war is going.

Its far more interesting how an expansive 10 minute interview has been condensed to a headline which gives (to my ears, anyway) a false impression of what was actually said. I assume its on the iplayer.

[Ozyhibby]

'It doesnt need to be said' that Russia is still a threat is a matter of opinion isnt it? It depends if you think the celebratory 'Ukraine have it in the bag' tone is dangerous in that its outcompeting other analysis. And thats been going on since the Spring from some sources, as we've discussed. Its when Russia decides to change tactics again, (like the 'limited encirclement' tactics that won them some territory in the summer) that we'll know how the next stage of the war is going.

Its far more interesting how an expansive 10 minute interview has been condensed to a headline which gives (to my ears, anyway) a false impression of what was actually said. I assume its on the iplayer.

It’s not in the bag until the day when the war is won. However, what we can say is that there is currently no serious analyst, former general or war expert who can see how Russia can turn this around. These guys are experts in their field and they are saying that the situation Russia is currently in is a losing hand no matter what.
What are the chance that these guys are wrong and the Russian generals are correct? Based on what I’ve seen so far, that has to be a very slim chance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

'It doesnt need to be said' that Russia is still a threat is a matter of opinion isnt it? It depends if you think the celebratory 'Ukraine have it in the bag' tone is dangerous in that its outcompeting other analysis. And thats been going on since the Spring from some sources, as we've discussed. Its when Russia decides to change tactics again, (like the 'limited encirclement' tactics that won them some territory in the summer) that we'll know how the next stage of the war is going.

Its far more interesting how an expansive 10 minute interview has been condensed to a headline which gives (to my ears, anyway) a false impression of what was actually said. I assume its on the iplayer.

It was only you that said the limited encirclement shout and I thought you would try to hide it. Russia went full force head on trying to take severodonetsk, it cost them thousands of soldiers for a strategically unimportant city. Some say it was such a poor decision it massively speeded up the war. It took them over a months to take it. In the last month Ukraine has taken 9000 km.

The sources I mentioned above have been saying since spring Russia will through everything the can until they can't. Then the tide will turn. The pace Ukraine is taking back territory is extraordinary. Russia just can't cope with 18 HIMARS and they are getting 18 more. Please read this thread from mark Hertling from the first days of the war its unbelievable how its panned out

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkHertling/status/1497035826139738125

[hibsbollah]

It’s not in the bag until the day when the war is won. However, what we can say is that there is currently no serious analyst, former general or war expert who can see how Russia can turn this around. These guys are experts in their field and they are saying that the situation Russia is currently in is a losing hand no matter what.
What are the chance that these guys are wrong and the Russian generals are correct? Based on what I’ve seen so far, that has to be a very slim chance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I’m not going by what ‘Russian generals’ think, have they even been speaking publicly about how the wars going? I doubt it. I’m listening to the head of UK spy’s agency, who is being cautious and circumspect.

[Stairway 2 7]

I’m not going by what ‘Russian generals’ think, have they even been speaking publicly about how the wars going? I doubt it. I’m listening to the head of UK spy’s agency, who is being cautious and circumspect.

They have been constantly? Shoigu, surovikin ect have been saying everything is going great constantly, the massive retreats are tactical ect.

Almost every western general and professor of military studies has been remarkably spot on with how this has went. Did you read Mark Hertlings thread from day 1 it's amazing how close the people who should know have been. They were cautious before, they are now saying its inevitable Russia will lose

[hibsbollah]

It was only you that said the limited encirclement shout and I thought you would try to hide it. Russia went full force head on trying to take severodonetsk, it cost them thousands of soldiers for a strategically unimportant city. Some say it was such a poor decision it massively speeded up the war. It took them over a months to take it. In the last month Ukraine has taken 9000 km.

The sources I mentioned above have been saying since spring Russia will through everything the can until they can't. Then the tide will turn. The pace Ukraine is taking back territory is extraordinary. Russia just can't cope with 18 HIMARS and they are getting 18 more. Please read this thread from mark Hertling from the first days of the war its unbelievable how its panned out

https://mobile.twitter.com/MarkHertling/status/1497035826139738125

Nothing wrong with the analysis in the link. My issue with the relentless optimism is it’s dealing with how the war has gone to this point, with conventional forces. Russia has other strings to its bow which frankly, it would be odd if Putin didn’t turn to. Cyber warfare. Chemical weapons were used in Syria. State Terrorism. We’ve seen the chaos that Belarus has already caused by opening and closing borders. And finally, I’m conscious that the Nuclear threat is clearly causing people some anxiety on here but it’s dangerous to ignore these things. It’s a horrible thought but it’s getting closer.

[Stairway 2 7]

Nothing wrong with the analysis in the link. My issue with the relentless optimism is it’s dealing with how the war has gone to this point, with conventional forces. Russia has other strings to its bow which frankly, it would be odd if Putin didn’t turn to. Cyber warfare. Chemical weapons were used in Syria. State Terrorism. We’ve seen the chaos what Belarus has already caused by opening and closing borders. And finally, I’m conscious that the Nuclear threat is clearly causing people some anxiety on here but it’s dangerous to ignore these things. It’s a horrible thought but it’s getting closer.

Why would Russia not have used the other strings to their bow so they wouldn't lose around half their military hardware and men? If they had anyway to stop the crushing loses of men, equipment and land the last month they would have used it. Its not optimism to say that Ukraine will win its a lifetime of experience whether that's in the military or war studies. They have got it remarkably right so far you would bet on them being right again.

Nuclear is been the same risk as day one of the war but I doubt Russia leaders want to end their country or comfortable lives.

@CalibreObscura
Never forget the dunces that claimed Russia would never invade Ukraine, despite massive evidence to the contrary.

Those same people (Usually) then claimed that Ukraine could never take back land, defeat was inevitable.

They now claim that WW3 is imminent, you get the picture

[hibsbollah]

Why would Russia not have used the other strings to their bow so they wouldn't lose around half their military hardware and men? If they had anyway to stop the crushing loses of men, equipment and land the last month they would have used it. Its not optimism to say that Ukraine will win its a lifetime of experience whether that's in the military or war studies. They have got it remarkably right so far you would bet on them being right again.

Nuclear is been the same risk as day one of the war but I doubt Russia leaders want to end their country or comfortable lives.

@CalibreObscura
Never forget the dunces that claimed Russia would never invade Ukraine, despite massive evidence to the contrary.

Those same people (Usually) then claimed that Ukraine could never take back land, defeat was inevitable.

They now claim that WW3 is imminent, you get the picture

That’s quite an unnecessarily aggressive tweet at the end… ‘dunces’ :faf: Going back to the start of this thread, I think I said on the balance of probability I doubted there would be a war, because each country would have too much to lose. (The same rationale you’re using to say you don’t think Russia would go nuclear). I also said that Russias hold on Europes energy supplies would become a key part of the conflict so maybe I did a bit better there.
No one can predict the future. And only a fool does so with confidence. The concern about all the analysis is it’s talking about Russias ‘desperation’. Ie-what are they going to do next.

[Stairway 2 7]

That’s quite an unnecessarily aggressive tweet at the end… ‘dunces’ :faf: Going back to the start of this thread, I think I said on the balance of probability I doubted there would be a war, because each country would have too much to lose. (The same rationale you’re using to say you don’t think Russia would go nuclear). I also said that Russias hold on Europes energy supplies would become a key part of the conflict so maybe I did a bit better there.
No one can predict the future. And only a fool does so with confidence. The concern about all the analysis is it’s talking about Russias ‘desperation’. Ie-what are they going to do next.

All the plans found after the invasion showed Russia thought they would take Ukraine in 3 days then push on to take Moldova. They didn't think they would lose anything. They know they will lose everything if they fire a nuke. Both the US and the EU have said that they have passed on that it will change everything in regards to their support. Chins has apparently made clear nukes is a no go. Invading and using a nuke isn't comparable

Predictions that decent sources have made have been remarkable in how right they have been. I'm sure ex generals and professors of war studies have factored in desperation somehow

[JeMeSouviens]

All the plans found after the invasion showed Russia thought they would take Ukraine in 3 days then push on to take Moldova. They didn't think they would lose anything. They know they will lose everything if they fire a nuke. Both the US and the EU have said that they have passed on that it will change everything in regards to their support. Chins has apparently made clear nukes is a no go. Invading and using a nuke isn't comparable

Predictions that decent sources have made have been remarkable in how right they have been. I'm sure ex generals and professors of war studies have factored in desperation somehow

I think this is key. Russia knows that using nukes will make them just a big N Korea, probably with even less international connection. Not saying Vlad might not lash out with them as a last "f you" to the world, but they're not going to win him his Make Russia Great Again objective.

[Stairway 2 7]

I think this is key. Russia knows that using nukes will make them just a big N Korea, probably with even less international connection. Not saying Vlad might not lash out with them as a last "f you" to the world, but they're not going to win him his Make Russia Great Again objective.

Putins apparently made it clear he thinks the west are weak and will back down, particularly with no gas ect. He could be right in a way. If they successfully took Ukraine and installed a puppet every nation including us, would probably have condemned but done nothing. He probably knows the worst comes to worst, he will be pushed back over the border, he can blame it on nato defeating then to his public, the sanctions will slowly drip away with the promise to never doing it again.

He the oligarchs and the mafia state will then go back to being incredibly rich from dealing with the east. There's no happy ending in war. I doubt he'll get the court case he deserves

[Stairway 2 7]

Second German iris t Air defense arriving in Ukraine. The first came 24 hours too late, probably no coincidence. Reportedly shot down a number of cruise missles today. Ukraine needs more

https://mobile.twitter.com/markito0171/status/1579802500487839744

[Stairway 2 7]

Extraordinary video showing the difference guided artillery can do

https://mobile.twitter.com/JimmySecUK/status/1579817396608831488

Jimmy Rushton
@JimmySecUK
Whilst Russia uses their military to kill Ukrainian civilians, Ukraine uses their military to kill Russian soldiers invading Ukraine.

Here the Ukrainians obliterate a Russian MLRS/artillery column with heavy artillery fire.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://mobile.twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1579819608080801798

@nexta_tv
The big fundraising of Prytula and Sternenko for revenge against the Russians shelling has ended. Ukrainians and citizens of other countries collected 9.6 million USD in one day

[Stairway 2 7]

About $1 million dollars per missile to blow up civilians or see it shot down, whilst millions in your country are in poverty😴. Ukrainian figures so only a baseline, but still

Jimmy Rushton
@JimmySecUK
·
According to the Ukrainian Air Force Russia launched 28
cruise missiles at Ukraine this morning.

20 cruise missiles and 13 Shahed-136 UAVs were destroyed by Ukrainian air defence.

8 missiles and an unknown number of "suicide" UAVs got though

[Stairway 2 7]

Good article on Russian nuclear sabre rattling

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2022/10/11/we-cant-let-putin-win-with-nuclear-bluster-blackmail/

[Stairway 2 7]

This is who Russia is putting in charge

https://mobile.twitter.com/Dywizjon161/status/1579832495209865218

@Dywizjon161
Nothing to see here . Just first governor of DPR " people's Republic" talking openly about his dreams of mass extermination of Ukrainians

Here's "DPR" separatist and terrorist Pavel Gubarev stating he will kill millions of Ukrainians possessed by demons, and even exterminate them all if need to be.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/travisakers/status/1579564316042625024?s=46&t=IsCbgVPls6p-QLy7hVRxyg

Should have been done a long time ago anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.newyorker.com/culture/annals-of-inquiry/how-the-war-in-ukraine-might-end
Article on how the war might end.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[superfurryhibby]

This is who Russia is putting in charge

https://mobile.twitter.com/Dywizjon161/status/1579832495209865218

@Dywizjon161
Nothing to see here . Just first governor of DPR " people's Republic" talking openly about his dreams of mass extermination of Ukrainians

Here's "DPR" separatist and terrorist Pavel Gubarev stating he will kill millions of Ukrainians possessed by demons, and even exterminate them all if need to be.

I listened to that and he is clearly deranged and dangerous. However, I can't find anything to say that he been appointed by anyone as governor of anything, other than his own declaration that he is "people's governor" of Donetsk. Which he first claimed in 2014.

[Stairway 2 7]

I listened to that and he is clearly deranged and dangerous. However, I can't find anything to say that he been appointed by anyone as governor of anything, other than his own declaration that he is "people's governor" of Donetsk. Which he first claimed in 2014.
It says first governor. He was very much front and centre in 2014 in donetsk. No way he would have been allowed to lead all the press conferences and sign the ratification papers for the press,ect without Russias direct say so. Russia likes to paint them as independent but

Regardless it shows the mindset of a prominent voice in the donetsk region, but girkin ect don't fart without the ok from Moscow

[AgentDaleCooper]

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/09/15/they-re-mostly-after-loans

Absolutely fascinating article that gives a very good insight into how things are going with the asian regions of Russia, how people see things there and why.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://mobile.twitter.com/ChrisO_wiki/status/1579809352130891776

@ChrisO_wiki
1/ The independent Russian media outlet Verstka ("Layout") has published a noteworthy piece on the devastating effect that mobilisation is having on Russia's schools. Thousands of teachers have been conscripted or have fled, bringing schools to the edge of collapse. 🧵 follows

[Stairway 2 7]

https://mobile.twitter.com/nexta_tv/status/1580164266191048704

nexta_tv
It's so easy in #Russia that a prisoner becomes not only a free man, but also a proud owner of the medal "For Courage".

Do the Russians understand that these people are returning back to society

Putin's Heroes

In 2013, Stanislav Bogdanov killed a Russian judge with a dumbbell. He was sentenced to 23 years in prison. After almost half of his term, he was send to Ukraine as cannon fodder, where he lost his leg. Today, he was released and awarded the medal "For Courage

[superfurryhibby]

https://meduza.io/en/feature/2022/09/15/they-re-mostly-after-loans

Absolutely fascinating article that gives a very good insight into how things are going with the asian regions of Russia, how people see things there and why.

"Across Russia, Tuva has the highest proportion of the population living below the poverty line, at 34.1 percent, with 6.8 percent of the population living in extreme poverty (in a ranking of Russian regions by income, RIA Novosti ranked Tuva last of 85 regions). According to Rosstat, the average per capita monthly income in Tuva is 20,041 rubles – second to last among all regions of Russia (Ingushetia was ranked lowest).

In the past six months Tuva has attained a new “record” – the number of soldiers killed in Russia’s war on Ukraine. According to Mediazona on September 9, of 6,219 identified military casualties, 94 come from the republic. In absolute terms this is fewer than the 292 casualties from Dagestan, but Tuva’s population is almost ten times smaller. Per capita, more than three times as many Tuvans died as Dagestanis. For every 100,000 people in Tuva, at least 29 have been killed – and that count doesn’t include those missing in action and those whose deaths were not recorded in public sources. This is the highest index across all Russian regions".

The statistics.....more propaganda from the Russians, but the principle is clear, they are exploiting the desperate poverty in the Russian regions and coercing folk into the military, people who wish to escape the dire conditions in their homelands.

[Stairway 2 7]

Bit like Dover

https://mobile.twitter.com/bayraktar_1love/status/1580230919306502151

bayraktar_1love
According to Russian-appointed head of Crimea, waiting at the ferry crossing in Crimea takes about 3-4 days. And there are about 900 trucks in line at the moment