Ukraine

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://abcnews.go.com/Business/wireStory/critics-mild-uk-sanctions-russia-match-promises-83062191?cid=social_twitter_abcnp

Other countries noticing our soft response.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


the CONservative and Russian unionist party

[Stairway 2 7]

Paula Chertok🗽🇺🇦@PaulaChertok · 27m

🚨🚨Ukraine Given New Warning By U.S. of Imminent Russian Attack, "all signs" indicate more urgency about a "full-scale" invasion in region of #Kharkiv (#Ukraine's 2d largest city!) because of changes in #Russia's force posture, reports @mchancecnn

[Ozyhibby]

Paula Chertok[emoji562][emoji1255]@PaulaChertok · 27m

[emoji599][emoji599]Ukraine Given New Warning By U.S. of Imminent Russian Attack, "all signs" indicate more urgency about a "full-scale" invasion in region of #Kharkiv (#Ukraine's 2d largest city!) because of changes in #Russia's force posture, reports @mchancecnn

At which point Johnson will implement sanctions on Russian red wine exports.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

At which point Johnson will implement sanctions on Russian red wine exports.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I for one, will not be buying a single Siberian pineapple until this whole thing has blown over.

[WeeRussell]

Thanks for bringing the thread back on topic.

The thread has moved off the subject completely the last page or so as everyone decides it's better just to knock the UK gov than discuss anything else.

Not COMPLETELY off topic when knocking the UK government in relation to the Ukraine issue? Maybe you get bored of it because it’s their standard incompetence, corruption and general **** behaviour that gets criticised on every other political topic.

I assure you, we’re all sick of it too.

[WhileTheChief..]

Not COMPLETELY off topic when knocking the UK government in relation to the Ukraine issue? Maybe you get bored of it because it’s their standard incompetence, corruption and general **** behaviour that gets criticised on every other political topic.

I assure you, we’re all sick of it too.

Nope, I’m interested with what is happening in Ukraine, not what some of you think of the Uk Government.

There’s plenty other threads to do that, I thought this one might focus on the actual issue, there’s a lot to talk about.

[Bostonhibby]

Sturgeon 'appalled' by Salmond continuing to host show on RT:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-60495467I'm just generally appalled by Salmond, but on this occasion she probably has a point

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

At least Comrade Jeremy 'let's send a sample of the Salisbury poison to Russia to see if they agree it's theirs' Corbyn isn't in charge :wink:You won't get any disagreement with me on that particular point.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

Nope, I’m interested with what is happening in Ukraine, not what some of you think of the Uk Government.

There’s plenty other threads to do that, I thought this one might focus on the actual issue, there’s a lot to talk about.

Maybe you can enlighten us as to whether this story is on topic?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/23/oligarchs-funding-tories

[Smartie]

I'm just generally appalled by Salmond, but on this occasion she probably has a point

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

You could probably argue that by taking up airtime talking his pish, he's preventing it being used for more malevolent purposes.

[WhileTheChief..]

Maybe you can enlighten us as to whether this story is on topic?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/23/oligarchs-funding-tories

There’s really no need for this type of chat.

You could just post the link and suggest I read it.

[WhileTheChief..]

Maybe you can enlighten us as to whether this story is on topic?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2022/feb/23/oligarchs-funding-tories

It’s a list of Russian’s that have donated to the Tories.

It doesn’t mention Ukraine, or the conflict, once.

[grunt]

It’s a list of Russian’s that have donated to the Tories.

It doesn’t mention Ukraine, or the conflict, once.
Do you not wonder whether the fact that the Tories have received all this Russian money, that their response to the Ukraine crisis might be affected?

[hibsbollah]

It’s a list of Russian’s that have donated to the Tories.

It doesn’t mention Ukraine, or the conflict, once.

Do you know what ‘context’ is?

FFS someone brought Corbyn into this thread a second ago, I’d love to see you justify that as on topic.

[Bostonhibby]

You could probably argue that by taking up airtime talking his pish, he's preventing it being used for more malevolent purposes.He can have all the RT airtime he wants in return for taking the Russian rouble and maybe lending them some sort of credibility in their eyes at least, but I'm still generally appalled by him.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[WhileTheChief..]

Do you not wonder whether the fact that the Tories have received all this Russian money, that their response to the Ukraine crisis might be affected?


The gov in Ukraine has been full of praise for the support the UK has given so far.

[hibsbollah]

Anyone remember Trumps first impeachment was relating to him threatening to withdraw military assistance from Ukraine?

[Ozyhibby]

The gov in Ukraine has been full of praise for the support the UK has given so far.

Of course, while at the same time saying they need more. They are not in a position to be critical of any help what so ever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

The gov in Ukraine has been full of praise for the support the UK has given so far.

Didn’t you say that exact thing this morning?

[Hibrandenburg]

Anyone remember Trumps first impeachment was relating to him threatening to withdraw military assistance from Ukraine?

:agree: they're all in cahoots. The Russians have Trump, Boris and Co by the balls. Yet some on here would like us to ignore all that.

[WhileTheChief..]

Didn’t you say that exact thing this morning?

I was replying to someone else.

What’s your problem?

[WeeRussell]

Of course, while at the same time saying they need more. They are not in a position to be critical of any help what so ever.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I was thinking the exact same earlier but couldn’t be bothered replying. They’re hardly going to be telling countries to f*** off for any assistance they do receive. Doesn’t make it enough though.

Anyway, best left there as any mention of the UK government’s response is going off topic.. unless you’re repeating a line of alleged support for them.

[hibsbollah]

I was replying to someone else.

What’s your problem?

No problem. Just a bit odd to repeat the same thing twice in the same day. On topic though.

[WhileTheChief..]

There are so many strands to what is happening, yet some of you are focussing squarely on Boris.

It’s as if you want him / the UK gov to fail at everything and are looking for anything at all to knock them for.

I’d have thought there would be way more condemnation for Putin and Russia’s actions. This seems to me like an issue that everyone could be on the same side about for once.

Let things play out a bit.

Let’s see how effective the UK, along with our allies, are. I doubt very much that we are working in isolation on anything. Same with Germany, or the EU, or the USA.

It’s not a competition between western countries to see who can do the most. It’s collaborative, as it should be.

[WhileTheChief..]

I was thinking the exact same earlier but couldn’t be bothered replying. They’re hardly going to be telling countries to f*** off for any assistance they do receive. Doesn’t make it enough though.

Anyway, best left there as any mention of the UK government’s response is going off topic.. unless you’re repeating a line of alleged support for them.

Give it a rest with the poxy comments, it doesn’t do the thread any good at all.

[cabbageandribs1875]

leave Britney alone


em, i mean leave Boris alone, the scruffy corrupt crooked scarecrow is doing his best

to delay sanctions for the Buddies of Boris to move funds around

[grunt]

The gov in Ukraine has been full of praise for the support the UK has given so far.

Well, since you've brought up the subject of the Ukraine response ...

https://www.scotsman.com/news/world/ukrainian-politician-thanks-scotland-for-support-but-issues-sanctions-warning-3581389

[WhileTheChief..]

Well, since you've brought up the subject of the Ukraine response ...

https://www.scotsman.com/news/world/ukrainian-politician-thanks-scotland-for-support-but-issues-sanctions-warning-3581389

I don’t subscribe.

Everyone knows that more is to come from the Uk and the allies.

As Ozy and others have said, he’s hardly going to say ‘thanks, we’ve got it from here’.

Of course they need more.

[grunt]

The gov in Ukraine has been full of praise for the support the UK has given so far.


As Ozy and others have said, he’s hardly going to say ‘thanks, we’ve got it from here’. Of course they need more.
:confused:

[WhileTheChief..]

:confused:

:confused::confused:

[LunasBoots]

Separatist leaders ask for military assistance, all part of Putins plan.

[WeeRussell]

Give it a rest with the poxy comments, it doesn’t do the thread any good at all.

No. Why is it poxy or off topic when things don’t suit you?

Yet you thanking someone for staying on topic because a couple of posters dared to question your beloved Boris’ pathetic response is fair game.

Cannae have it aw roads.

Oh and Of course Putin is 100% in the wrong. It’s hard to find the words to describe his deplorable behaviour and attitude. I assumed that went without saying. We could really do with strong leadership across the world in order to deal with him as best as possible.

[Callum_62]

No. Why is it poxy or off topic when things don’t suit you?

Yet you thanking someone for staying on topic because a couple of posters dared to question your beloved Boris’ pathetic response is fair game.

Cannae have it aw roads.

Oh and Of course Putin is 100% in the wrong. It’s hard to find the words to describe his deplorable behaviour and attitude. I assumed that went without saying. We could really do with strong leadership across the world in order to deal with him as best as possible.Leadership from the guy who literally ran away from a follow up question on his inaccurate statement regarding sanctions on a wealthy russian

Is running away or hiding in a fridge stronger leadership?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[WhileTheChief..]

No. Why is it poxy or off topic when things don’t suit you?

Yet you thanking someone for staying on topic because a couple of posters dared to question your beloved Boris’ pathetic response is fair game.

Cannae have it aw roads.

Oh and Of course Putin is 100% in the wrong. It’s hard to find the words to describe his deplorable behaviour and attitude. I assumed that went without saying. We could really do with strong leadership across the world in order to deal with him as best as possible.

It’s the smart arse tone I was referring to.

Happy to chat and disagree but I’m not here looking for a fight. Why not just disagree with me in an amiable way? Why you casting up posts between me and someone else.

I’ll bow out and leave you to it.

[WeeRussell]

Why you casting up posts between me and someone else.


It was literally the post that started this exchange, that’s why I’m ‘casting it up’..

And you don’t need me to tell you that that’s how these threads work more often than not, rather than direct exchanges between two posters.. the same way you responded to my post to Oz above.

No hard feelings - have a good night 👍

[The Sundance Kid]

A lot of ominous noises that a full scale invasion will take place overnight

[Ozyhibby]

A lot of ominous noises that a full scale invasion will take place overnight

Russians have just closed all airspace over the Ukraine border.

https://twitter.com/sentdefender/status/1496624074088501255?s=21

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220224/2eb905198b97db7f5b82d0559cd2cb7d.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/anders_aslund/status/1496656178348437504?s=21


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SteveHFC]

https://twitter.com/bnonews/status/1496678892316372993?s=21

BREAKING: Putin orders military operation in eastern Ukraine

[cabbageandribs1875]

any loss of human life is ALL on putin, the little terrorist monster

[SteveHFC]

BREAKING: Putin, in announcing military action, says Russia does not plan to occupy Ukraine

BREAKING: Putin says military action will seek to "demilitarize" Ukraine

BREAKING: Putin calls on Ukrainian service members to 'lay down their arms and go home'

BREAKING: Putin says clashes between Russian and Ukrainian forces are "inevitable"

[SteveHFC]

https://twitter.com/oliverdarcy/status/1496684740597932036?s=21

[LunasBoots]

Hit the airport seemingly and gunfire heard aswell

Airfields military headquarters are being sheeled by Russia in Kiev and Kharkiv

Ukraine is apparently a threat to Russia and must demilitarise, begs the question of other countries in the region aswell, whose next not allowed to defend themselves as a nation.

[LunasBoots]

CNN reporters and witnesses in cities across Ukraine have reported hearing explosions in the early hours of Thursday.

Here's where:

Kyiv: CNN reporters in Ukraine's capital heard explosions from the east in the direction of the city's international airport. Social media users reported hearing several explosions in the Boryspil area to the east of the capital, where the international airport is located about 25 kilometers (15 miles) from the city. CNN has not confirmed that the airport has been targeted.
Kharkiv: A CNN team in Ukraine's second biggest city, in the northeast of the country, heard a "steady stream of loud explosions."
Kramatorsk: Two people in the eastern city, located about 120 kilometers (75 miles) north of separatist-held Donetsk, told CNN they heard at least two massive explosions.
Dnipro: A resident of the central city told CNN they had heard "a few explosions."
Mariupol: Two residents told CNN they heard explosions east of the city, which is located in the southeast of the country.
Odessa: A CNN team in the Black Sea port city heard two groups of explosions about 20 minutes apart.
Zaporizhzhia: A CNN team in the southeastern city said they heard at at least one very distant explosion.

[LunasBoots]

Russian troops are rumoured to have landed on Ukrainian soil off the black sea aswell

[Haymaker]

****ing hell.

[cabbageandribs1875]

putin is going to get whatever he wants here isn't he

[LunasBoots]

putin is going to get whatever he wants here isn't he

Yup sanctions do nothing really he was prepared for them, has also threatened any countries who intervenes will face grave consequences the likes never seen before, guys a madman which we all knew but listening and watching him like others have said earlier in this thread I do wonder if he's a 'well' man

[cabbageandribs1875]

"FULL SCALE" Sanctions on Russia to be deployed by U.S. and Allies on Thursday



even wee kim Jong un will be p*****g himself laughing at that one

[cabbageandribs1875]

Yup sanctions do nothing really he was prepared for them, has also threatened anyone who intervenes will face grave consequences the likes never seen before, guys a madman which we all knew but listening and watching him like others have said earlier in this thread I do wonder if he's a 'well' man


his cyber crime hackers department will be ready to click a few buttons to hack all frozen $$$'s lost back, like north korea does

[cabbageandribs1875]

Belarusian troops involved as well....the ****s

military vehicles and troops entering ukraine from belarus

[LunasBoots]

Belarusian troops involved as well....the ****s

military vehicles and troops entering ukraine from belarus

Belarus should be heavily sanctioned aswell.

Thousands of Ukrainians fleeing cities in Ukraine.

Pentagon tracking troops who entered via Belarusian border

[JimBHibees]

:agree: they're all in cahoots. The Russians have Trump, Boris and Co by the balls. Yet some on here would like us to ignore all that.

Pretty much this. Trump meets Putin without his advisors in Helsinki when president. Our Johnson meets Russians without met police security while foreign secretary. How the fek has this been allowed to happen.

[SkintHibby]

All this could have been avoided if the west agreed to Ukraine becoming neutral but no, NATOs relentless march right to Russias border is more important!

Imagine if Scotland gained its independence and invited Russian troops in? I dont think England would stand idly by!

Without a doubt, this is going to get big!

[SkintHibby]

putin is going to get whatever he wants here isn't he

Yes, any intervention from the west will eventually result in all out nuclear war.

[SkintHibby]

any loss of human life is ALL on putin, the little terrorist monster

I see western propaganda has done a sterling job on you lol.:agree:

What about all the Iraqi loss of life in the illegal war on Iraq? I dont hear you saying much about that and calling American presidents "terrorist little monsters". Total hypocrisy!

[Pretty Boy]

Ultimately this is now a failure of diplomacy and I suppose that means a failure of appeasement on the part of the US, UK and EU. The only option now is to hammer Russia with sanctions. No half measures. The obvious step is to make it nigh on impossible for the Russian state or the individual oligarchs to trade in dollars, pounds or euros. That's something that can be done if there is the political will to do so.

Now that Putin has committed to an invasion in Ukraine he has to win. At this point the west has to look at how far that victory goes. The loss of a couple of regions of Ukraine to allow Putin his gtandstandinh may be a price they consider worth paying if they can cripple the Russian economy to the point further invasions become unpalatable. I'm not saying I agree with that but in an era of mutual assured destruction the options of Europe and the US in terms of military action are limited.

A war like this was inevitable this decade. I said as much on the thread about the very subject late last year. I didn't expect it to happen so quickly though.

[neil7908]

All this could have been avoided if the west agreed to Ukraine becoming neutral but no, NATOs relentless march right to Russias border is more important!

Imagine if Scotland gained its independence and invited Russian troops in? I dont think England would stand idly by!

Without a doubt, this is going to get big!

And what about the people of Ukraine? If they want to align with the west we should just say no?

[hibsbollah]

Ultimately this is now a failure of diplomacy and I suppose that means a failure of appeasement on the part of the US, UK and EU. The only option now is to hammer Russia with sanctions. No half measures. The obvious step is to make it nigh on impossible for the Russian state or the individual oligarchs to trade in dollars, pounds or euros. That's something that can be done if there is the political will to do so.

Now that Putin has committed to an invasion in Ukraine he has to win. At this point the west has to look at how far that victory goes. The loss of a couple of regions of Ukraine to allow Putin his gtandstandinh may be a price they consider worth paying if they can cripple the Russian economy to the point further invasions become unpalatable. I'm not saying I agree with that but in an era of mutual assured destruction the options of Europe and the US in terms of military action are limited.

A war like this was inevitable this decade. I said as much on the thread about the very subject late last year. I didn't expect it to happen so quickly though.

After the Cold War was won, NATO had clear choices about how to be the winner. It chose the path of expansionism, expanding right to the old USSRs borders. The ‘Failure of Appeasement’ was the failure to give appeasement a try. That ignores the reality of course of lots of Bulgarians, Ukrainians, Belarusians wanting a bit of capitalism and consumer fun after years under Stalin and Brezhnev and that weird fossilised existence. But the expansion of NATO to where it is was all was always going to be viewed as a threat, how could it not? The Finland model that was talked about made a lot of sense of non aligned capitalist neutrality made a lot of sense.

But it’s also true to say that Ukraine is a sovereign nation, entitled to choose its own development path. As a sovereign nation that has been invaded for old world imperial reasons by Russia, which can’t be defended or justified by tactical mistakes by the West. Very difficult to predict how this is going to end but extremely worrying. And as usual civilians will be the victims.

[lapsedhibee]

After the Cold War was won, NATO had clear choices about how to be the winner. It chose the path of expansionism, expanding right to the old USSRs borders. The ‘Failure of Appeasement’ was the failure to give appeasement a try. That ignores the reality of course of lots of Bulgarians, Ukrainians, Belarusians wanting a bit of capitalism and consumer fun after years under Stalin and Brezhnev and that weird fossilised existence. But the expansion of NATO to where it is was all was always going to be viewed as a threat, how could it not? The Finland model that was talked about made a lot of sense of non aligned capitalist neutrality made a lot of sense.

But it’s also true to say that Ukraine is a sovereign nation, entitled to choose its own development path. As a sovereign nation that has been invaded for old world imperial reasons by Russia, which can’t be defended or justified by tactical mistakes by the West. Very difficult to predict how this is going to end but extremely worrying. And as usual civilians will be the victims.

:tsk tsk: Truss will have considered all this carefully and will have a solution up her sleeve. Expect to see it later today on Instagram.

[mjhibby]

"FULL SCALE" Sanctions on Russia to be deployed by U.S. and Allies on Thursday



even wee kim Jong un will be p*****g himself laughing at that one

They have been preparing for this for 8 years so arentbothered in the slightest by the sanctions. It will drive up prices here to boot. Its time to stop these empty words either fully support Ukraine with weapons and troops or shut the f... up. It was obvious this was coming and the west hoped it wouldn't happen. Putin knows we won't do anything to really harm him and now of course all of these western countries who are heavily into Russian money look stupid,especially our govt. A tragic day for Ukraine which was formed long before Russia so putin is taking manure saying they are Russian.

[HibsGW]

All this could have been avoided if the west agreed to Ukraine becoming neutral but no, NATOs relentless march right to Russias border is more important!

Imagine if Scotland gained its independence and invited Russian troops in? I dont think England would stand idly by!

Without a doubt, this is going to get big!

You’re kidding right? Key word, Russia’s border. What happens outside of Russia’s border isn’t their business.

[Jones28]

7 people killed by Russian bombs with 19 missing.

[LunasBoots]

Ukrainian tank column seen heading towards port at the black sea.

Border guard currently fighting Russian military

UK to provide weapons to Ukraine.

[Pretty Boy]

After the Cold War was won, NATO had clear choices about how to be the winner. It chose the path of expansionism, expanding right to the old USSRs borders. The ‘Failure of Appeasement’ was the failure to give appeasement a try. That ignores the reality of course of lots of Bulgarians, Ukrainians, Belarusians wanting a bit of capitalism and consumer fun after years under Stalin and Brezhnev and that weird fossilised existence. But the expansion of NATO to where it is was all was always going to be viewed as a threat, how could it not? The Finland model that was talked about made a lot of sense of non aligned capitalist neutrality made a lot of sense.

But it’s also true to say that Ukraine is a sovereign nation, entitled to choose its own development path. As a sovereign nation that has been invaded for old world imperial reasons by Russia, which can’t be defended or justified by tactical mistakes by the West. Very difficult to predict how this is going to end but extremely worrying. And as usual civilians will be the victims.

I was referring to a failure of something resembling appeasement in the last 8 years and particularly in the last couple of months.

The expansion eastwards of NATO and the EU wasn't an entirely one way street. The newly created or reestablished Baltic and other former Soviet states as sovereign nations had a choice as to where to seek assistance and alliances. With the glaring exceptions of Azerbaijan and Belarus most of the others understandably looked west. Of course that doesn't sit well with Russia and their own geopolitical ambitions and desire to protect their military infrastructure. However the events of last night probably leave the likes of Estonia, Lithuania, Armenia and Latvia feeling they made the right choices albeit the response of their supposed allies in the next few days will be telling.

[Ryan91]

You’re kidding right? Key word, Russia’s border. What happens outside of Russia’s border isn’t their business.

I'd just ignore him, doesn't seem to understand that Ukraine is an independent nation and it's people can choose to align themselves with whomever they wish.

[Chorley Hibee]

You’re kidding right? Key word, Russia’s border. What happens outside of Russia’s border isn’t their business.

Imagine America's response if there were Russian missiles based in Canada and Mexico right now.

Look at their response to the Cuban missile crisis for historical proof.

It's more nuanced than simply portraying Russia as the evil empire once again. Blame can be apportioned to both sides, yet the only losers will be the Ukrainian and Russian people.

[Greencore]

This is terrifying.

[Ryan91]

Imagine America's response if there were Russian missiles based in Canada and Mexico right now.

Look at their response to the Cuban missile crisis for historical proof.

It's more nuanced than simply portraying Russia as the evil empire once again. Blame can be apportioned to both sides, yet the only losers will be the Ukrainian and Russian people.

What exactly has Ukraine done to warrant an invasion by Russian forces?

There is no blaming both sides, this is blatant Russian aggression, because Ukraine has dared to look to the future and see's it's future is brighter when it looks Westward

[Chorley Hibee]

I'd just ignore him, doesn't seem to understand that Ukraine is an independent nation and it's people can choose to align themselves with whomever they wish.

Just like the countless countries in South America, Central America, Africa and South East Asia that chose to align themselves to something America and the West opposed.

America and the West then done everything to undermine those countries, including coups, war, mass murder and more.

The hypocrisy of the West, at times, knows no bounds.

[Northernhibee]

This is terrifying.

Very much so.

[bingo70]

This is terrifying.

It really is, watching the videos this morning of the air raid alarms going off in Kiev is something I didn’t think I’d ever see, absolutely chilling.

I’m sorry if this comes across as selfish however in what ways and when is this likely to impact us across here? Putin has said I think he’ll take action against countries getting involved, I’m assuming that won’t come in the form of bombs getting dropped on us but should we expect cyber attacks on our banks or is it more likely to be like the nerve agent drugs like we saw down south a few years ago?

[Santa Cruz]

Would there be any chance Russian citizen's take to the street's to voice their opposition to this and the pressure on Putin comes from his own country while we wait on the time it will take sanctions to have enough effect to eventually drain their financial reserves?

[Scorrie]

I would think cyber attacks are a cert. Also turning off the gas supplies as well. I certainly hope the novichok scenario doesn’t materialise

[Jones28]

It really is, watching the videos this morning of the air raid alarms going off in Kiev is something I didn’t think I’d ever see, absolutely chilling.

I’m sorry if this comes across as selfish however in what ways and when is this likely to impact us across here? Putin has said I think he’ll take action against countries getting involved, I’m assuming that won’t come in the form of bombs getting dropped on us but should we expect cyber attacks on our banks or is it more likely to be like the nerve agent drugs like we saw down south a few years ago?

I don't even want to comprehend what that nutter will do but I honestly fear mass nerve agent attacks more than anything else.

[Pretty Boy]

Would there be any chance Russian citizen's take to the street's to voice their opposition to this and the pressure on Putin comes from his own country while we wait on the time it will take sanctions to have enough effect to eventually drain their financial reserves?

From what I can gather a majority of Russians citizens are broadly supportive of this action, that's based on little more than a couple of hours of online digging though.

Looking past the shiny white elephants large chunks of Russia are still desperately poor and poverty is rife. A family friend of mine was involved in a Scottish relief effort providing humanitarian aid to Russian people in the early 90s post the fall of the USSR. He's in his late 80s now but still has contacts on the ground in and around Novosibirsk and they report that the situation there is worse now than it was 25-30 years ago. Queues for food, sporadic access to healthcare and houses that hasn't been upgraded since the time of Khrushchev. I suppose spending upwards of 5% of your GDP on the military takes it's toll somewhere.

The action from The EU this morning looks fairly robust. A few articles I have read suggest Russia has cash reserves of upwards of $600bn but how long that lasts if this war becomes a prolonged effort and other countries follow suit and restrict their access to financial markets is up for debate.

[Hibernian Verse]

I really hope this doesn't turn out to be this generations watershed moment in European geopolitics. Infact, it might already be unless something materially changes in the next 48 hours.

[hibsbollah]

RT is really fascinating viewing. And their boss has a strange sense of humour, according to the Guardian.

Margarita Simonyan, the newly sanctioned head of RT, wrote in a tweet: “This is a standard parade rehearsal,” she wrote. “Except this year we have decided to hold the parade in Kyiv.”

[Northernhibee]

I hope and trust we will be taking more than our fair share of Ukrainian refugees.

[LunasBoots]

Ukrainians claim they shot down 5 Russian planes and killed around 50 Russian soldiers.

Missle warning alarms going off in Poland.

[LunasBoots]

I don't even want to comprehend what that nutter will do but I honestly fear mass nerve agent attacks more than anything else.
"Whoever tries to interfere with us, and even more so, to create threats for our country, for our people, should know that Russia's response will be immediate and will lead you to such consequences that you have never experienced in your history.

"We are ready for any development of events. All necessary decisions in this regard have been made."
His threats shouldn't be taken lightly, he's completely lost the plot, who knows what he could do if push comes to shove

[SkintHibby]

I'd just ignore him, doesn't seem to understand that Ukraine is an independent nation and it's people can choose to align themselves with whomever they wish.

Just like the west ignored Putin and that is why we are where are today!

The US went to the brink of nuclear war to get Soviet nuclear missiles out of Cuba in the 60's. Russia is not going to let American nuclear missiles get into Ukraine in the first place.

[Rumble de Thump]

Just like the west ignored Putin and that is why we are where are today!

The US went to the brink of nuclear war to get Soviet nuclear missiles out of Cuba in the 60's. Russia is not going to let American nuclear missiles get into Ukraine in the first place.

Ukraine doesn't want nuclear missiles. Your very strong opinion seems to purely be based on fantasy.

[HibsGW]

Just like the west ignored Putin and that is why we are where are today!

The US went to the brink of nuclear war to get Soviet nuclear missiles out of Cuba in the 60's. Russia is not going to let American nuclear missiles get into Ukraine in the first place.

As far as I’m aware there’s been no indication that this is ever going to be attempted? Do you have a source?

[SkintHibby]

Ukraine doesn't want nuclear missiles. Your very strong opinion seems to purely be based on fantasy.

You are naive in the extreme. The US and NATO want to surround and contain Russia.

Imagine if Russian troops were on Americas border in Canada and Mexico. Do you think the USA would just stand by? I think we both know the answer.:agree:

[HibsGW]

You are naive in the extreme. The US and NATO want to surround and contain Russia.

Imagine if Russian troops were on Americas border with Canada and Mexico. Do you think the USA would just stand by? I think we both know the answer.:agree:

Source? You’re making a whole load of huge accusations, I’ve seen nothing to suggest Ukraine will host any missiles from America or Nato.

[Berwickhibby]

You are naive in the extreme. The US and NATO want to surround and contain Russia.

Imagine if Russian troops were on Americas border in Canada and Mexico. Do you think the USA would just stand by? I think we both know the answer.:agree:

As that you Eck Salmond…. Thought you were a Jambo

[Santa Cruz]

Just like the west ignored Putin and that is why we are where are today!

The US went to the brink of nuclear war to get Soviet nuclear missiles out of Cuba in the 60's. Russia is not going to let American nuclear missiles get into Ukraine in the first place.

Ukraine want to join NATO to bolster their defences against Russian aggression. America has not asked them to host their nuclear missiles, quite the opposite, Ukraine has intimated in the past they will acquire their own nuclear missiles if they are denied NATO membership. They have the right to defend their own country!

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021/4/16/ukraine-may-seek-nuclear-weapons-if-left-out-of-nato-diplomat

[LeithMike]

After the Cold War was won, NATO had clear choices about how to be the winner. It chose the path of expansionism, expanding right to the old USSRs borders. The ‘Failure of Appeasement’ was the failure to give appeasement a try. That ignores the reality of course of lots of Bulgarians, Ukrainians, Belarusians wanting a bit of capitalism and consumer fun after years under Stalin and Brezhnev and that weird fossilised existence. But the expansion of NATO to where it is was all was always going to be viewed as a threat, how could it not? The Finland model that was talked about made a lot of sense of non aligned capitalist neutrality made a lot of sense.

But it’s also true to say that Ukraine is a sovereign nation, entitled to choose its own development path. As a sovereign nation that has been invaded for old world imperial reasons by Russia, which can’t be defended or justified by tactical mistakes by the West. Very difficult to predict how this is going to end but extremely worrying. And as usual civilians will be the victims.I have difficulties with the first part of that. I'm not sure it was about NATO expansionism rather than some of the former Soviet nations seeking security guarantees after achieving independence. Ukraine and Georgia both wanted to be in Nato for years but not permitted and the West turner a blind eye when Russia invaded South Ossettia and Abkhazia in Georgia - which are still disputed territories to this day.

The West has done many wrong things around the world but this invasion by Putin has no justification and he has been engineering this for years. It's fairly clear he's starting to implement his desire to turn the clock back and reconstitute the Soviet Union.

Hugely difficult position for the West now with the choice of allowing a sovereign state to fall (with all the potential for grave human losses) or face a direct conflict with a nuclear powered nation. Its no win and that seems to be what Putin is playing on. China will be watching closely too with an eye on Taiwan.

Democracy is far from perfect but autocracies where there is no culture of challenge lead to very dark places.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[SkintHibby]

Source? You’re making a whole load of huge accusations, I’ve seen nothing to suggest Ukraine will host any missiles from America or Nato.

US led NATO has broken every promise they gave to Russia after the breakup of the Soviet Union.

I honestly think the west needs to sit down with Russia or this isnt going to end well.

The US does not give a flying f about Ukraine and they will be the biggest losers in all of this. The Americans have now got what they wanted. Guaranteed lucrative arms sales to European countries and forced buying of very expensive Amercican gas.

Thanks to the wests total lack of wanting to negotiate with Russia, Gas and Petrol prices will go thtough the roof.

Well done.

[Smartie]

US led NATO has broken every promise they gave to Russia after the breakup of the Soviet Union.

I honestly think the west needs to sit down with Russia or this isnt going to end well.

The US does not give a flying f about Ukraine and they will be the biggest losers in all of this. The Americans have now got what they wanted. Guaranteed lucrative arms sales to European countries and forced buying of very expensive Amercican gas.

Thanks to the wests total lack of wanting to negotiate with Russia, Gas and Petrol prices will go thtough the roof.

Well done.

So who and what do you think has been the barrier to this happening thus far?

[HibsGW]

US led NATO has broken every promise they gave to Russia after the breakup of the Soviet Union.

I honestly think the west needs to sit down with Russia or this isnt going to end well.

The US does not give a flying f about Ukraine and they will be the biggest losers in all of this. The Americans have now got what they wanted. Guaranteed lucrative arms sales to European countries and forced buying of very expensive Amercican gas.

Thanks to the wests total lack of wanting to negotiate with Russia, Gas and Petrol prices will go thtough the roof.

Well done.

Give some examples of promises that NATO has broken to Russia?

The west has already sat down with Russia and encouraged diplomacy, it’s been all over the news the past 2 weeks. Russia has denied those appeals and chosen to invade another country. I’m really not sure how you can be sympathising with Russia in this situation and pointing the finger at everyone else, Russia have just invaded an independent country.

[LunasBoots]

Sir Tony Brenton, the former British ambassador to Moscow, says that sanctions placed on Russia will not be effective.

His comments come as Prime Minister Boris Johnson prepares to announce further economic measures on Russia.

Speaking to Sky News, Sir Tony said there will be "lots of sanctions and lots of condemnation" from the West, but that it will "bounce off Russia's back".

"The Russian government, Putin in particular, don't take the sanctions seriously, and not because they dismiss the potential economic damage they can do, but because they take Russian national security much more seriously than... Russian economic welfare," he added.

"The West will be outraged and there'll be all sorts of sanctions and stuff, as there were after the invasion of Crimea back in 2014.

"And then the West will begin to forget and want to resume normal business with Russia, and in a few years, we'll back to where we were before.

"A rather good commentator on television described the West as having attention deficit disorder with regard to international politics. And I think in a sense, he was right."

[SkintHibby]

So who and what do you think has been the barrier to this happening thus far?

Russia just spent the last month talking to the west trying to convey their concerns and come to some sort of agreement.

They got nowhere.

Thats why we are where we are.

I'm not pro or anti Russian but at least I try to look at a situation from the perspective of both sides.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Russia just spent the last month talking to the west trying to convey their concerns and come to some sort of agreement.

They got nowhere.

Thats why we are where we are.

I'm not pro or anti Russian but at least I try to look at a situation from the perspective of both sides.

:faf:

[Ozyhibby]

Ukraine gave up its nuclear weapons. It joins the list of countries who give up nuclear weapons and are then rewarded by being invaded.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Santa Cruz]

Russia just spent the last month talking to the west trying to convey their concerns and come to some sort of agreement.

They got nowhere.

Thats why we are where we are.

I'm not pro or anti Russian but at least I try to look at a situation from the perspective of both sides.

Are you pro or anti democracy? You mention the West and Russia. No mention of Ukraine....

[Ozyhibby]

This is obviously very worrying and it’s being compounded by the fact that the UK appears to be led by complete clowns just now. [emoji35]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Smartie]

Russia just spent the last month talking to the west trying to convey their concerns and come to some sort of agreement.

They got nowhere.

Thats why we are where we are.

I'm not pro or anti Russian but at least I try to look at a situation from the perspective of both sides.

Believe it or not, I don't think the West is whiter than white and I have (to an extent) some sympathies for Putin in feeling promises have been broken and that he has every right to be nervous about NATO creeping closer to Moscow.

That does not justify the invasion of a sovereign nation. Nothing does. His actions here cannot be justified, his words in relation to Ukraine (and other former USSR nations) are disgraceful and it is hard to "do diplomacy" when someone is of that frame of mind.

[makaveli1875]

More sanctions won't stop mad vlad. He's not ****ing around and Biden needs to show he won't **** around either and send Ukraine all the troops and weapons they need to inflict crushing losses on the Russian army.

[StevieC]

Would there be any chance Russian citizen's take to the street's to voice their opposition to this and the pressure on Putin comes from his own country while we wait on the time it will take sanctions to have enough effect to eventually drain their financial reserves?

Highly unlikely given Russian control of the media and what is reported. This will getting spun as western aggression against Russia and a necessary move to protect Russia and its citizens.

[hibsbollah]

I have difficulties with the first part of that. I'm not sure it was about NATO expansionism rather than some of the former Soviet nations seeking security guarantees after achieving independence. Ukraine and Georgia both wanted to be in Nato for years but not permitted and the West turner a blind eye when Russia invaded South Ossettia and Abkhazia in Georgia - which are still disputed territories to this day.

The West has done many wrong things around the world but this invasion by Putin has no justification and he has been engineering this for years. It's fairly clear he's starting to implement his desire to turn the clock back and reconstitute the Soviet Union.

Hugely difficult position for the West now with the choice of allowing a sovereign state to fall (with all the potential for grave human losses) or face a direct conflict with a nuclear powered nation. Its no win and that seems to be what Putin is playing on. China will be watching closely too with an eye on Taiwan.

Democracy is far from perfect but autocracies where there is no culture of challenge lead to very dark places.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Whether you want to call it ‘NATO expansionism’ or you think it’s NATO being some sort of honest broker to the former Soviet republics allowing them membership, selling them arms and carrying out military manœuvres right up to the Russian border, the end result is the same.

Saying there ‘is no justification’ for invasion is fair enough, which I agree with and you can read that in my earlier post. There’s a difference between that and providing historical context. I’m sure there will be certain posters on here who accuse me and others of being ‘apologists for Putin’ or other ridiculous nonsense. Putin’s behaviour has been abhorrent for decades, whether it’s Navalny, Chechnya or internal dissent and LGBT issues. But we’re talking about clash of empires, geo political issues and probably some degree of Stalinesque mental instability. And Trumps role in all this needs some investigation. Chamberlain wasn’t ‘responsible’ for WW2 because of his Munich antics, but his false moves provide context.

[WeeRussell]

Highly unlikely given Russian control of the media and what is reported. This will getting spun as western aggression against Russia and a necessary move to protect Russia and its citizens.

Some of them probably feel safer if Russia go to war than if they were to speak-out against their dictator!

[Sir David Gray]

Ukraine officially severs diplomatic relations with Russia.

Really frightening developments overnight, it's terrifying what the future holds right now for Europe.

[Stairway 2 7]

Sanctions aren't stopping the mad man, he wants users back. Billionaire oligarchs will have plenty in friendly banks. Eu spends $700 each 24 hours to Russia in oil and gas. That's what's funding this and some eu countries can't survive without out it, so he has them by the.. what a strategic f up relaying on Russian gas

Matina Stevis-Gridneff
@MatinaStevis

Diplomats tell us following sanctions are tricky:
- ITA, AUS, DE concerned abt broad banking-sector sanctions
- ITA resistant to sanctions that include railways
- ITA wants carve-out for luxury goods
- BEL wants carve-out for diamonds
+ broad reluctance to sanction energy sector

Diplomats yesterday were calling the 2nd sanctions package "Damocles sword" -that Putin would refrain from invading on the grounds of the threat of massive sanctions. They were wrong.
Tonight 27 EU leaders will seek consensus in a new day where war is a reality

Remember: The toughest sanctions are tough because they hurt Russia AND the EU.

[Radium]

Russia just spent the last month talking to the west trying to convey their concerns and come to some sort of agreement.

They got nowhere.

Thats why we are where we are.

I'm not pro or anti Russian but at least I try to look at a situation from the perspective of both sides.

You’re an apologist for a dictator who is rebuilding the Russian empire. His problem with Ukraine is the people and the politicians that they have elected.

They want to be a working democracy, he wants them to be subservient to him.

I will fall to Goodwins law. This is textbook Sudetenland


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[AltheHibby]

"And Trumps role in all this needs some investigation. Chamberlain wasn’t ‘responsible’ for WW2 because of his Munich antics, but his false moves provide context."

There is no doubt he gave Putin confidence, and continues to support him. It scares me to think what is in the secret documents he took home, and what secrets he has already shared with Putin.

[Ozyhibby]

I was really hoping the three guys Johnson sanctioned would have talked Putin out of this.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[The Harp Awakes]

Just like the west ignored Putin and that is why we are where are today!

The US went to the brink of nuclear war to get Soviet nuclear missiles out of Cuba in the 60's. Russia is not going to let American nuclear missiles get into Ukraine in the first place.

Agreed. Putin is a nutter, but ignore him at your peril.

Russia is clearly the aggressor here, but the US and the UK''s approach to the Ukraine crisis has been shambolic. The Germans and French tried hard to find a negotiated solution, where the US and UK just upped the reteric and did nothing other than issue threats of sanctions.

Now that Russia has invaded, what are the West going to do? The crisis is only ever going to be resolved through a negotiated settlement and having invaded, Russia's position is now stronger than it was previously. Biden and Johnson look weak and out of their depth.

[AltheHibby]

You’re an apologist for a dictator who is rebuilding the Russian empire. His problem with Ukraine is the people and the politicians that they have elected.

They want to be a working democracy, he wants them to be subservient to him.

I will fall to Goodwins law. This is textbook Sudetenland


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly. It's Hitler with nuclear weapons.

On an interesting, and very scary side note, I looked at an American right wing "Christian" website this morning. These guys are rabid Trump supporters and are delighted because this is, in their warped minds, proof that Jesus is coming back and that Trump is definitely "God's man".

Oh, and they blame Jewish financiers for this and all previous wars.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/osinttechnical/status/1496781552994463744?s=21

Useful for those interested in the military side of this.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1496768722580746241

Very good thread to follow updates, quite unbelievable videos. Russia firing cruise missles into Ukraine. Two border towns captured by Russia, Belarusian troops in Ukraine, missile strikes in Western Ukraine, 5 Russian planes shot down

It's like a nightmare happening in real time

[LeithMike]

Agreed. Putin is a nutter, but ignore him at your peril.

Russia is clearly the aggressor here, but the US and the UK''s approach to the Ukraine crisis has been shambolic. The Germans and French tried hard to find a negotiated solution, where the US and UK just upped the reteric and did nothing other than issue threats of sanctions.

Now that Russia has invaded, what are the West going to do? The crisis is only ever going to be resolved through a negotiated settlement and having invaded, Russia's position is now stronger than it was previously. Biden and Johnson look weak and out of their depth.I think the worry is that Putin wants what he wants and is not interested in a negotiated settlement. I don't think we can blame the US and UK leaders for that - the West had to take a stand here.

Thank goodness Trump is no longer in power. Boris' words about breaching international law carry very little weight when he was willing to rip up international law himself when it suited him over Brexit and his complete disregard for the rule of law around Covid and more generally.

History has a way of repeating itself. Financial crisis - discontent - populist leaders - anarchy. Hopefully we've learned something.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[LunasBoots]

So what happens if one of Russias missiles hits say another country in Europe?

[Callum_62]

So what happens if one of Russias missiles hits say another country in Europe?We might add another sanction to someone rich and russian? [emoji108]

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[LunasBoots]

We might add another sanction to someone rich and russian? [emoji108]

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

More than likely 😆, seems that Poland and a few others are becoming increasingly passed off though which could eventually make things interesting.

[LunasBoots]

More strikes hitting Kyiv the last few minutes

[Hibernian Verse]

So what happens if one of Russias missiles hits say another country in Europe?

If they are a member of NATO then Article 5 would be invoked (in theory).

Collective defence means that an attack against one Ally is considered as an attack against all Allies.
The principle of collective defence is enshrined in Article 5 of the Washington Treaty.
NATO invoked Article 5 for the first time in its history after the 9/11 terrorist attacks against the United States.
NATO has taken collective defence measures on several occasions, for instance in response to the situation in Syria and in the wake of the Russia-Ukraine crisis.
NATO has standing forces on active duty that contribute to the Alliance’s collective defence efforts on a permanent basis.

[LunasBoots]

If they are a member of NATO then Article 5 would be invoked (in theory).

Collective defence means that an attack against one Ally is considered as an attack against all Allies.
The principle of collective defence is enshrined in Article 5 of the Washington Treaty.
NATO invoked Article 5 for the first time in its history after the 9/11 terrorist attacks against the United States.
NATO has taken collective defence measures on several occasions, for instance in response to the situation in Syria and in the wake of the Russia-Ukraine crisis.
NATO has standing forces on active duty that contribute to the Alliance’s collective defence efforts on a permanent basis.

Certainly will get interesting if the Russians get as far as Lyiv near to Polands border, already air warning alarms going off in Poland.

[heretoday]

Lyse Doucet is on the scene in Kiev. We're ok now.

[hibsbollah]

"And Trumps role in all this needs some investigation. Chamberlain wasn’t ‘responsible’ for WW2 because of his Munich antics, but his false moves provide context."

There is no doubt he gave Putin confidence, and continues to support him. It scares me to think what is in the secret documents he took home, and what secrets he has already shared with Putin.


:agree:
Even in normally reliable sources, I cant see enough discussion about Ukraine and Trump's ongoing and current connection with and support of with Putin. Its like everyone has forgotten what Trump was impeached FOR :confused:, including blocking almost $400 million US military hardware for Ukraine. Heres the background from 2020.

Trump impeachment: The short, medium and long story - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-49800181)

[Berwickhibby]

All this geopolitics is pointless, Putin is not in the mood to negotiate, the result is simple, lots of people will die unnecessarily, a huge humanitarian crisis with refugees fleeing, resources will become scarce and prices will go through the roof. The only people that will get rich are Arms dealers and manufacturers

[SkintHibby]

Seemingly only one Russian boomer nuclear missile sub being refitted at the moment. All at sea with 2 seen leaving the Barents Sea in the last two weeks.

[StevieC]

It is looking like Putin’s first strike was to take out as many radar systems as he could, throughout the whole of Ukraine (hence the sound of many explosions situated around airports).
This will have been to allow air support for the troops on the ground.
Unfortunately many of these missile strikes were off target and a number of civilian areas have been hit, resulting in deaths and destruction of civilian buildings. One missile reported to have landed within Kyiv. (some horrendous videos circulating of missile damage and human lives lost)

The city of Kharkiv under attack and likely to be the first major city to be taken by Russian troops.

[SkintHibby]

More sanctions won't stop mad vlad. He's not ****ing around and Biden needs to show he won't **** around either and send Ukraine all the troops and weapons they need to inflict crushing losses on the Russian army.

You have lost it lol. You realise that just means more innocents die dont you? Youve been watching too many American war movies.

[Stairway 2 7]

Russia pushes North of crimea so its story about the two regions in the east is rubbish, this is an invasion of Ukraine any way you look at it

Julian Röpcke🇺🇦@JulianRoepcke · 11m

#Breaking #NewsMap
The Ukrainian front in Kherson totally collapsed.
Russian troops reached the Dnepr and do not face any resistance.
I geolocated them 130 km inside Ukraine.
The Ukrainian army says the situation is "difficult". Understatement of the year.
This is unbelievable.

[Rumble de Thump]

You have lost it lol. You realise that just means more innocents die dont you? Youve been watching too many American war movies.

Is it really funny? It's almost as though Russia has started a war.

[SkintHibby]

It is looking like Putin’s first strike was to take out as many radar systems as he could, throughout the whole of Ukraine (hence the sound of many explosions situated around airports).
This will have been to allow air support for the troops on the ground.
Unfortunately many of these missile strikes were off target and a number of civilian areas have been hit, resulting in deaths and destruction of civilian buildings. One missile reported to have landed within Kyiv. (some horrendous videos circulating of missile damage and human lives lost)

The city of Kharkiv under attack and likely to be the first major city to be taken by Russian troops.

Youve been there mate, why did Ukraine not declare itself neutral like Switzerland? This could have been avoided. They could have had the best of both worlds and became rich off it but they were lost to western nonsense.

[hibsbollah]

Just the satellite function on Google maps tells you a lot about the geography, hundreds of miles with nothing but fields and open roads, no cover. Perfect for tanks to get a long way quickly if you avoid any attacks from the air. Which it sounds like the Russians have already done by knocking out the radar systems.

hard to believe whats happening.

[The Harp Awakes]

I think the worry is that Putin wants what he wants and is not interested in a negotiated settlement. I don't think we can blame the US and UK leaders for that - the West had to take a stand here.

Thank goodness Trump is no longer in power. Boris' words about breaching international law carry very little weight when he was willing to rip up international law himself when it suited him over Brexit and his complete disregard for the rule of law around Covid and more generally.

History has a way of repeating itself. Financial crisis - discontent - populist leaders - anarchy. Hopefully we've learned something.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Trump is as crazy as Putin, but I actually believed him this morning when he said on US TV that the invasion would never have happened if he was still in office. For all the bad he did, Trump did make efforts to get on with 2 of biggest threats to world peace, Russia and North Korea.

Trump's slant on Russia's invasion is that Putin was initially looking for a negotiated settlement, but gave up when the US & UK completely ignored him. He also thinks Putin had previously clocked the US's shambolic withdrawal from Afghanistan which he said demonstrated true weakness. Hard not to agree with him on this occasion.

[hibsbollah]

Trump is as crazy as Putin, but I actually believed him this morning when he said on US TV that the invasion would never have happened if he was still in office. For all the bad he did, Trump did make efforts to get on with 2 of biggest threats to world peace, Russia and North Korea.

Trump's slant on Russia's invasion is that Putin was initially looking for a negotiated settlement, but gave up when the US & UK completely ignored him. He also thinks Putin had previously clocked the US's shambolic withdrawal from Afghanistan which he said demonstrated true weakness. Hard not agree with him.

I thought it was an outrageous interview. Fox may as well be RT. There is a second front in America that is actually opposed to the things America, despite its faults, normally stands for.

[Hibernian Verse]

There is a video of a kid killed riding her bike on Twitter.

Anyone still want to justify Putin's actions?

[Ozyhibby]

Youve been there mate, why did Ukraine not declare itself neutral like Switzerland? This could have been avoided. They could have had the best of both worlds and became rich off it but they were lost to western nonsense.

Ukraine is a democracy and is entitled to defend itself however it sees fit so long as the don’t threaten anyone else.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Northernhibee]

You have lost it lol. You realise that just means more innocents die dont you? Youve been watching too many American war movies.

I hate to say it, but this is way past the point of diplomacy now. It doesn't help that we have a really poor president in charge of the US who is only there because he was less worse than the previous, the single worst and weakest Prime Minister in living memory and the likelihood of Russian cash and influence throughout governments around the world. By all accounts, Russia are largely self reliant so sanctions aren't likely to have any immediate impact on them and when they do, it's likely that they will just be met with more aggression.

I don't know what solution there is that doesn't result in a huge loss of life. It's terrifying and absolutely depressing in equal measure.

[StevieC]

Russia pushes North of crimea so its story about the two regions in the east is rubbish, this is an invasion of Ukraine any way you look at it

Julian Röpcke🇺🇦@JulianRoepcke · 11m

#Breaking #NewsMap
The Ukrainian front in Kherson totally collapsed.
Russian troops reached the Dnepr and do not face any resistance.
I geolocated them 130 km inside Ukraine.
The Ukrainian army says the situation is "difficult". Understatement of the year.
This is unbelievable.

They have always wanted a land link to Crimea. It has a strategic naval base at Sevastopol and the Kerch bridge is too vulnerable. I expect Kharkiv, Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporozhia and Kherson regions to be secured and be under separatist control even if Russia eventually withdraws its troops. They may even attempt to annexe Odessa, with one eye on Moldova being their next target.

[Stairway 2 7]

Petri Mäkelä
@pmakela1
· 1h
Russian troops entering Ukraine from Belarus have a TOS-1A Thermobaric MLRSs (Rocket flamethrowers) with them.
Note the circle IFF marking

This. This is a crime against humanity in the making.

And there are many TOS-1A deployed across a number of points.

https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1496783476279975938

[SkintHibby]

Just waiting for the first country to declare war on Russia.

I think it may be a long wait so pipe down keyboard warriors.

[Rumble de Thump]

Youve been there mate, why did Ukraine not declare itself neutral like Switzerland? This could have been avoided. They could have had the best of both worlds and became rich off it but they were lost to western nonsense.

How can a country be neutral if it is being attacked and invaded? Ukraine obviously wanted to join NATO as it would have offered it some protection against Russian aggression. We can see Ukraine was absolutely right to want that, especially as Putin has made it clear he wants to rebuild the Soviet Union. If Ukraine had been accepted into NATO it's unlikely Putin would be invading Ukraine now and this could potentially have been avoided.

[mjhibby]

Trump is as crazy as Putin, but I actually believed him this morning when he said on US TV that the invasion would never have happened if he was still in office. For all the bad he did, Trump did make efforts to get on with 2 of biggest threats to world peace, Russia and North Korea.

Trump's slant on Russia's invasion is that Putin was initially looking for a negotiated settlement, but gave up when the US & UK completely ignored him. He also thinks Putin had previously clocked the US's shambolic withdrawal from Afghanistan which he said demonstrated true weakness. Hard not to agree with him on this occasion.

Usual trumpet fantasy twaddle. Putin would have strung him along and done the same. Trump had set the day of withdrawal and Biden extended it. Like a player who gets better when not playing trump deludes himself on his capabilities now he's out of office.

[Ozyhibby]

I hate to say it, but this is way past the point of diplomacy now. It doesn't help that we have a really poor president in charge of the US who is only there because he was less worse than the previous, the single worst and weakest Prime Minister in living memory and the likelihood of Russian cash and influence throughout governments around the world. By all accounts, Russia are largely self reliant so sanctions aren't likely to have any immediate impact on them and when they do, it's likely that they will just be met with more aggression.

I don't know what solution there is that doesn't result in a huge loss of life. It's terrifying and absolutely depressing in equal measure.

Russia is far from self reliant. They import a lot. Especially when it comes to tech. Their whole economy relies on gas and oil. We can and must hit their economy hard. He will still be able to sell gas to the Chinese but when they are the only ones buying, it will be at a price set by them. We can impoverish Russia. And it’s the only way we can deal with it. We need to make Russians think they will be better off without Putin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Just waiting for the first country to declare war on Russia.

I think it may be a long wait so pipe down keyboard warriors.
Try and keep your pish like above of this thread please. There is an invasion of a European country some of the people on this board have ties to. It would be good if it could be kept grown up and respectful

[Pretty Boy]

Btw watching Putin last night confirms my assertion he is ****ed.

The man looks like he will be lucky to see another Christmas.

[StevieC]

Youve been there mate, why did Ukraine not declare itself neutral like Switzerland? This could have been avoided. They could have had the best of both worlds and became rich off it but they were lost to western nonsense.

Given your posts so far I feel it would be pointless entering into a discussion with you about how we have reached this point. It goes back more than 10 years, and even before the Yanukovitch administration, but I doubt you’ll have any interest in researching that.

You are basically saying that the Ukrainian people, of which I know many, should not have been allowed to choose the path that they wanted their country to go down.

[Stairway 2 7]

Russia is far from self reliant. They import a lot. Especially when it comes to tech. Their whole economy relies on gas and oil. We can and must hit their economy hard. He will still be able to sell gas to the Chinese but when they are the only ones buying, it will be at a price set by them. We can impoverish Russia. And it’s the only way we can deal with it. We need to make Russians think they will be better off without Putin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I don't think this is right unfortunately. Germany ect have no choice but Russian gas, eu buys $700 million a day. But if not the Asian Market looks about just as big and the price is soaring, just went above $100 a barrel

[Northernhibee]

Russia is far from self reliant. They import a lot. Especially when it comes to tech. Their whole economy relies on gas and oil. We can and must hit their economy hard. He will still be able to sell gas to the Chinese but when they are the only ones buying, it will be at a price set by them. We can impoverish Russia. And it’s the only way we can deal with it. We need to make Russians think they will be better off without Putin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My bad, I'd read that it's only certain items of fresh food that they import in that respect and also have large reserves of cash. Genuine fear in the pit of all of our stomachs I think.

[Pretty Boy]

Just waiting for the first country to declare war on Russia.

I think it may be a long wait so pipe down keyboard warriors.

Absolutely no need.

There are a number of people who use this forum with strong ties to Ukraine dating back the best part of 2 decades. Many are well informed on the situation and are fearful for the people they know on the ground there.

'Keyboard warriors' is dismal patter at the best of times but totally out of place here. Your post above just comes across as someone relishing the thought of the west getting a bloody nose with little care for the human cost involved, on all sides.

[SkintHibby]

Btw watching Putin last night confirms my assertion he is ****ed.

The man looks like he will be lucky to see another Christmas.

How can you say that! He is 68 and a great politician and you are 35 and probably an alky. He is anything but fd my friend. :agree:

[HibsGW]

How can you say that! He is 68 and a great politician and you are 35 and probably an alky. He is anything but fd my friend. :agree:

What are your posts all about? Have we got Russian bots even making their way to Hibs.net now???

[Pretty Boy]

How can you say that! He is 68 and a great politician and you are 35 and probably an alky. He is anything but fd my friend. :agree:

:faf::faf::faf::faf:

'Probably an alky'.

[mjhibby]

Agreed. Putin is a nutter, but ignore him at your peril.

Russia is clearly the aggressor here, but the US and the UK''s approach to the Ukraine crisis has been shambolic. The Germans and French tried hard to find a negotiated solution, where the US and UK just upped the reteric and did nothing other than issue threats of sanctions.

Now that Russia has invaded, what are the West going to do? The crisis is only ever going to be resolved through a negotiated settlement and having invaded, Russia's position is now stronger than it was previously. Biden and Johnson look weak and out of their depth.

That's about the size of it. When he has nearly 200,00 troops on Ukraine border its not for excercise. He holds all the aces.Unless Ukraine gets massive help it will only end one way. The longer the Ukraine hold out the pressure mounts on putin.

[Smartie]

I've been watching all of this on Sky News.

Anyone else find it a bit weird that they still have a correspondent in Moscow who is being openly critical of Putin, and that Mark Austin still appears to be presenting live from Kiev, with the odd explosion going off quite near him?

Obviously I've seen war correspondents broadcast with body armour and helmets on from pretty dodgy flashpoints before - but it just feels a bit weird.

[SkintHibby]

Absolutely no need.

There are a number of people who use this forum with strong ties to Ukraine dating back the best part of 2 decades. Many are well informed on the situation and are fearful for the people they know on the ground there.

'Keyboard warriors' is dismal patter at the best of times but totally out of place here. Your post above just comes across as someone relishing the thought of the west getting a bloody nose with little care for the human cost involved, on all sides.

Nonsense. I watched America literally destroy countries in my lifetime with untold suffering and Im supposed to raise an eyebrow when Russia defends its own borders. Get a grip.

[Stairway 2 7]

Javier Blas
@JavierBlas
·
26m
I'm hope to be proven badly wrong on this:

I believe Europe will buy more (no less) Russian natural gas in the next few days. Yes, that's right: more. That's capitalism in times of war. The reason is linked with how Gazprom import contract pricing is structured

[Pretty Boy]

Nonsense. I watched America literally destroy countries in my lifetime with untold suffering and Im supposed to raise an eyebrow when Russia defends its own borders. Get a grip.

So you'll condemn the actions of the US, as many of us on here do, but not Russia? And you call other people hypocrites. Got it.

[AugustaHibs]

Just waiting for the first country to declare war on Russia.

I think it may be a long wait so pipe down keyboard warriors.

**** up

[Moulin Yarns]

The best solution, IMHO is for US special forces to neutralise Putin and the army generals so that Russia is leaderless.

[Paulie Walnuts]

The best solution, IMHO is for US special forces to neutralise Putin and the army generals so that Russia is leaderless.

:agree:

Can someone not just finish him off please.

[Jones28]

Nonsense. I watched America literally destroy countries in my lifetime with untold suffering and Im supposed to raise an eyebrow when Russia defends its own borders. Get a grip.

Pfft.

Ever looked at the Dnipro kids pages? These kids are going to be affected by this along with millions of others.


Get a ****ing grip.

[Hibernian Verse]

**** up

I concur. Best use of **** up I've seen for a while.

[Smartie]

The best solution, IMHO is for US special forces to neutralise Putin and the army generals so that Russia is leaderless.

Sounds easy when you say it like that.

[HibsGW]

Nonsense. I watched America literally destroy countries in my lifetime with untold suffering and Im supposed to raise an eyebrow when Russia defends its own borders. Get a grip.

What a ridiculously insensitive thing to choose to troll on. I can be sure you’re trolling because you’re talking about defending their own borders. They’re outside of their own borders already.

[Stairway 2 7]

OSINTtechnical
@Osinttechnical
·
1m
The Russian have effectively broken through to the south. Securing crossings over the Dnieper river.

[Moulin Yarns]

Nonsense. I watched America literally destroy countries in my lifetime with untold suffering and Im supposed to raise an eyebrow when Russia defends its own borders. Get a grip.

How is Russia defending its borders by invading another country?

[Hibernian Verse]

OSINTtechnical
@Osinttechnical
·
1m
The Russian have effectively broken through to the south. Securing crossings over the Dnieper river.

They're using pontoon bridges. They've got everything they need sadly.

[JeMeSouviens]

Youve been there mate, why did Ukraine not declare itself neutral like Switzerland? This could have been avoided. They could have had the best of both worlds and became rich off it but they were lost to western nonsense.

Swiss neutrality wasn't on offer. The type of "neutrality" on offer to Ukraine is as per Belarus and Georgia, you can have any government you like as long as you run it past Vlad first. That was the whole point of the Minsk accords from Russia's pov, the Donbas regions were meant to get enough autonomy to have a veto over Kiev.

[Berwickhibby]

:faf::faf::faf::faf:

'Probably an alky'.

Ahh so all your running and cycling is trips to the off licence….your secrets out :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

Nonsense. I watched America literally destroy countries in my lifetime with untold suffering and Im supposed to raise an eyebrow when Russia defends its own borders. Get a grip.


I agreed with much of what you said earlier but you're just plain wrong here. Think about the implications of what is happening on the ground and the civilian deaths. Two things can be true at the same time. The West can be hypocrital, but Putin is an autocratic dictatorial nightmare.

[Moulin Yarns]

Sounds easy when you say it like that.

Considering the actions they have taken in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere I don't think Putin should be too difficult to find 😉

[JeMeSouviens]

Russia is far from self reliant. They import a lot. Especially when it comes to tech. Their whole economy relies on gas and oil. We can and must hit their economy hard. He will still be able to sell gas to the Chinese but when they are the only ones buying, it will be at a price set by them. We can impoverish Russia. And it’s the only way we can deal with it. We need to make Russians think they will be better off without Putin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:agree:

We have to recognise that this will come at a cost to all of us, but it's a price worth paying.

[Smartie]

Considering the actions they have taken in Afghanistan, Iraq and elsewhere I don't think Putin should be too difficult to find 😉

Do you honestly think they could get anywhere near him? I'd be very surprised, especially right now.

I'm also not convinced that the US or the UK actually give a ****, in spite of the rhetoric. It's far away from the USA, and a huge proportion of the population there are a bit too Trumpy to want to risk American lives in a far away land any more. Boris Chamberlain is hopelessly compromised and looks ridiculous right now and will look to piffle, waffle, lie and bluster in order to continue to fool his followers at home.

Right and wrong don't really come into it any more, and Putin has chosen his moment well.

[Stairway 2 7]

Crazy video of fighting west of Kiev!

https://twitter.com/johnsweeneyroar/status/1496804965410553858

Ukrainians saying Antonov International Airport in Gostomel, north west suburb of Kyiv was attacked. Multiple choppers in sky. Ukris say they shot down 3 - lots more were they came from

[Stairway 2 7]

Crazy video of fighting west of Kiev!

https://twitter.com/johnsweeneyroar/status/1496804965410553858

Ukrainians saying Antonov International Airport in Gostomel, north west suburb of Kyiv was attacked. Multiple choppers in sky. Ukris say they shot down 3 - lots more were they came from

OSINTtechnical
@Osinttechnical
·
59s
Textbook airborne assault, Mi-8 transport helicopters with gunship support. The Russians are trying to capture an airfield next to Kyiv

[Pretty Boy]

Crazy video of fighting west of Kiev!

https://twitter.com/johnsweeneyroar/status/1496804965410553858

Ukrainians saying Antonov International Airport in Gostomel, north west suburb of Kyiv was attacked. Multiple choppers in sky. Ukris say they shot down 3 - lots more were they came from

It's not something to be made light of but it's almost like the Day Today War episode, without the comedy.

Watching a war develop in real time almost instantaneously. We have obviously all seen horrific imagery from Syria and Iraq in recent years but this could be the first conflict almost fully played out on social media.

[ronaldo7]

They have always wanted a land link to Crimea. It has a strategic naval base at Sevastopol and the Kerch bridge is too vulnerable. I expect Kharkiv, Luhansk, Donetsk, Zaporozhia and Kherson regions to be secured and be under separatist control even if Russia eventually withdraws its troops. They may even attempt to annexe Odessa, with one eye on Moldova being their next target.

Hi Stevie, not sure if you've contacted anyone.
I've just spoken to M. He's on his way out of Dnipro, and on his way to his parents. Struggling to get petrol, but the family are all safe. He'll contact when he gets there.

He'll be moving away from Dnipro permanently, and the company are setting up in Western Ukraine.

[WhileTheChief..]

The best solution, IMHO is for US special forces to neutralise Putin and the army generals so that Russia is leaderless.

Reports are saying that Putin has been holed away for a while now and only sees a couple of dozen or so sycophants.

All ex-KGB, all his age.

Same thing happened with Sadam Hussain, and most other dictators through history when they lose their grip on reality.

The sight of him dressing down his spy chief yesterday shows exactly what is happening there.

The hope is that one of Russia's top generals comes to the fore. Similar to Nazi Germany, apparently a lot of the army top brass are not impressed with Putin at all.

If they can perform some kind of a coup that would be a decent solution to a dire situation.

[AugustaHibs]

Hi Stevie, not sure if you've contacted anyone.
I've just spoken to M. He's on his way out of Dnipro, and on his way to his parents. Struggling to get petrol, but the family are all safe. He'll contact when he gets there.

He'll be moving away from Dnipro permanently, and the company are setting up in Western Ukraine.

Praying for the safety of all these kids.

The work that has been done for the kids of Dnipro by all of you is incredible and it makes me sick what this dictator is doing to these innocent people.

[Stairway 2 7]

It's not something to be made light of but it's almost like the Day Today War episode, without the comedy.

Watching a war develop in real time almost instantaneously. We have obviously all seen horrific imagery from Syria and Iraq in recent years but this could be the first conflict almost fully played out on social media.

Bizarre isn't it

Gostomel 13km from Kiev just beside its ring road

OSINTtechnical
@Osinttechnical
·
9m
Ukrainian interior ministry reports that the Russians have taken Gostomel Airport

I would expect the Russians to reinforce Gostomel with more airborne troops.

Possible combat drop coming

[SaulGoodman]

How can you say that! He is 68 and a great politician and you are 35 and probably an alky. He is anything but fd my friend. :agree:

You’re a bit of a fud aren’t you

[Smartie]

Reports are saying that Putin has been holed away for a while now and only sees a couple of dozen or so sycophants.

All ex-KGB, all his age.

Same thing happened with Sadam Hussain, and most other dictators through history when they lose their grip on reality.

The sight of him dressing down his spy chief yesterday shows exactly what is happening there.

The hope is that one of Russia's top generals comes to the fore. Similar to Nazi Germany, apparently a lot of the army top brass are not impressed with Putin at all.

If they can perform some kind of a coup that would be a decent solution to a dire situation.

That would be lovely, but do you think there is much (any) chance of that happening?

Are they not all of a similar mindset?

I think it's delusionally simplistic to think of this conflict as being the consequences of the wishes of a sole madman.

[Stairway 2 7]

Current situation, Ukraine has no chance

25579

[Jones28]

Combat jets flying over Dnipro on Twitter.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1496813387766013952

Fighter jets over Kyiv

[Jones28]

Also looking like Belarus is complicit and actively deploying troops to fight Ukranian forces.

[Northernhibee]

Also looking like Belarus is complicit and actively deploying troops to fight Ukranian forces.

Need to absolutely hammer them with sanctions too immediately.

[hibsbollah]

China looks to be 'neutral', doesnt use the word 'invasion';

Russia’s invasion into Ukraine (https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) has left western observers disappointed by Beijing’s initial response, writes the Guardian’s China affairs correspondent Vincent Ni. On Thursday, China’s foreign ministry spokesperson, Hua Chunying, insisted the situation has a “complex historical background”. She also refused to use the word “invasion”.
Russia’s act clearly violated China’s own position that sovereignty is sacrosanct. This is a discourse Beijing often deploys when it talks about Taiwan, for example. But on the other hand, Beijing also takes issue with Putin’s opposite side in this crisis: the US and Nato. So far, on Beijing’s scale, the latter appears to be weighing heavier in its messaging.
This dynamic is perfectly illustrated on China’s social media platform. On Tuesday afternoon, at least seven of the top ten “hotly-searched topics” on Weibo are related to the crisis in Ukraine. Of course, Taiwan was also featured on this list.
At the moment, the top searched topic is the situation in Ukraine. The hashtag: #Follow the latest developments in the situation in Russia and Ukraine has been read at least 1.57bn times. The latest entry under this hashtag is Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelenskiy deciding to cut diplomatic ties with Russia (https://www.theguardian.com/world/russia). Factual reporting with users’ comments (although many of them seem pretty pro-Russia).
The second and seventh topics on the list write #NATO still owes China a blood debt and #The US is not qualified to tell China what to do. The two hashtags have now been read for over 200m times. Clearly, Beijing has found a good opportunity to remind Chinese netizens of what happened more than 20 years ago.
On 7 May, 1999, Nato missiles struck the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade and set it ablaze in a predawn strike, killing three Chinese citizens. The US said it was a mistake caused by an out-of-date map, but China was never convinced. Back then, it was a huge event in China that led to rare anti-America protests.
Meanwhile, Taiwan is also under the spotlight on Chinese social media. The future of the democratically-run island has been getting a lot of attention in recent weeks as analysts see parallels to the Ukraine crisis. The related hashtag has received over 600,000 reads so far.
China’s defence ministry spoke about Taiwan today, but its main target was what it called “Taiwanese separatists and independence forces”. The remark followed Taiwan’s president, Tsai Ing-wen yesterday urging her citizens to be “vigilant”. Unsurprisingly, on today’s Chinese internet, such a comment again stoke up much nationalism.

[Lendo]

Get some Ukrainian flags up at our next Home game? Russian Consulate visa centre is within the Easter Road grounds outside of the Main Stand.

[lord bunberry]

**** up
He’s an idiot that thinks he’s on a different level from the rest of us. Sadly there’s a large number of them that have been able to join together due to the internet. Previously they stayed in the house with their parents and no one ever knew they existed, I’d advise putting him on ignore as I suspect he wants to be banned in order to boast about it on the sites he frequents. Ignore him, don’t give him the attention he craves.

[HibsGW]

He’s an idiot that thinks he’s on a different level from the rest of us. Sadly there’s a large number of them that have been able to join together due to the internet. Previously they stayed in the house with their parents and no one ever knew they existed, I’d advise putting him on ignore as I suspect he wants to be banned in order to boast about it on the sites he frequents. Ignore him, don’t give him the attention he craves.

It’s blatant trolling on a huge and sensitive topic, should be banned really. If you’re going to say Russia is defending its borders by leaving its borders to enter another country and attacking it, you’re clearly trolling.

[Jones28]

Get some Ukrainian flags up at our next Home game? Russian Consulate visa centre is within the Easter Road grounds outside of the Main Stand.

I'd advocate for that.

I'd advocate for chucking them at the consulate afterwards as well.

[Jones28]

An apartment block hit by an airstrike in the Kharkiv region.

[lord bunberry]

It’s blatant trolling on a huge and sensitive topic, should be banned really. If you’re going to say Russia is defending its borders by leaving its borders to enter another country and attacking it, you’re clearly trolling.
I think there’s also a way to get your point across that doesn’t involve using the kind of rhetoric he’s been using. I’m not sure how past American actions are relevant to what’s happening in Ukraine, the Americans have acted appallingly in the past, I’m not sure how that justifies Russia invading another country. None of us are American as far as the im aware.

[Hibernian Verse]

It’s blatant trolling on a huge and sensitive topic, should be banned really. If you’re going to say Russia is defending its borders by leaving its borders to enter another country and attacking it, you’re clearly trolling.

Or he actually believes it and is loving the anarchy.

[Pretty Boy]

China looks to be 'neutral', doesnt use the word 'invasion';

Russia’s invasion into Ukraine (https://www.theguardian.com/world/ukraine) has left western observers disappointed by Beijing’s initial response, writes the Guardian’s China affairs correspondent Vincent Ni. On Thursday, China’s foreign ministry spokesperson, Hua Chunying, insisted the situation has a “complex historical background”. She also refused to use the word “invasion”.
Russia’s act clearly violated China’s own position that sovereignty is sacrosanct. This is a discourse Beijing often deploys when it talks about Taiwan, for example. But on the other hand, Beijing also takes issue with Putin’s opposite side in this crisis: the US and Nato. So far, on Beijing’s scale, the latter appears to be weighing heavier in its messaging.
This dynamic is perfectly illustrated on China’s social media platform. On Tuesday afternoon, at least seven of the top ten “hotly-searched topics” on Weibo are related to the crisis in Ukraine. Of course, Taiwan was also featured on this list.
At the moment, the top searched topic is the situation in Ukraine. The hashtag: #Follow the latest developments in the situation in Russia and Ukraine has been read at least 1.57bn times. The latest entry under this hashtag is Ukraine’s president Volodymyr Zelenskiy deciding to cut diplomatic ties with Russia (https://www.theguardian.com/world/russia). Factual reporting with users’ comments (although many of them seem pretty pro-Russia).
The second and seventh topics on the list write #NATO still owes China a blood debt and #The US is not qualified to tell China what to do. The two hashtags have now been read for over 200m times. Clearly, Beijing has found a good opportunity to remind Chinese netizens of what happened more than 20 years ago.
On 7 May, 1999, Nato missiles struck the Chinese Embassy in Belgrade and set it ablaze in a predawn strike, killing three Chinese citizens. The US said it was a mistake caused by an out-of-date map, but China was never convinced. Back then, it was a huge event in China that led to rare anti-America protests.
Meanwhile, Taiwan is also under the spotlight on Chinese social media. The future of the democratically-run island has been getting a lot of attention in recent weeks as analysts see parallels to the Ukraine crisis. The related hashtag has received over 600,000 reads so far.
China’s defence ministry spoke about Taiwan today, but its main target was what it called “Taiwanese separatists and independence forces”. The remark followed Taiwan’s president, Tsai Ing-wen yesterday urging her citizens to be “vigilant”. Unsurprisingly, on today’s Chinese internet, such a comment again stoke up much nationalism.

我敌人的敌人就是我的朋友

[Pretty Boy]

I'd advocate for that.

I'd advocate for chucking them at the consulate afterwards as well.

The consulate is on Melville Street. I daresay it will be targeted by protests at some point over the next few days.

It's the Visa application centre which is on Albion Road. I'd have no objections should anyone decide to stick a few Ukraine flags there on Sunday.

[WhileTheChief..]

That would be lovely, but do you think there is much (any) chance of that happening?

Are they not all of a similar mindset?

I think it's delusionally simplistic to think of this conflict as being the consequences of the wishes of a sole madman.


Maybe not mad, but this whole thing is entirely down to Putin, no one else.

There isn't anyone in the wings in the Russian gov egging him on.

He's doing what dictators do.

There's an excellent series on iPlayer just now that focuses on Hitler and Stalin. It could just as easily be about Putin and his cronies.

[StevieC]

Hi Stevie, not sure if you've contacted anyone.
I've just spoken to M. He's on his way out of Dnipro, and on his way to his parents. Struggling to get petrol, but the family are all safe. He'll contact when he gets there.

He'll be moving away from Dnipro permanently, and the company are setting up in Western Ukraine.

I’ve not spoken to Misha yet, but he will have his hands full if he is evacuating Dnipro.

I’ve had lots of messages, both from Ukrainian friends in Dnipro and from friends in UK offering support.
I’m almost in tears with both worry for those in Ukraine and humbled by the offers of support.

People don’t know whether to flee or to sit tight, it is a hugely worrying time.

[Pretty Boy]

Maybe not mad, but this whole thing is entirely down to Putin, no one else.

There isn't anyone in the wings in the Russian gov egging him on.

He's doing what dictators do.

There's an excellent series on iPlayer just now that focuses on Hitler and Stalin. It could just as easily be about Putin and his cronies.

I'm not sure it's true to say that this is solely down to Putin.

People who rely, in full or in part, on ethnonationalism to maintain power generally surround themselves with similarly hawkish types. I read 'How Russia Really Works' by Alena Ledneva a few years ago and she details how the 'sistema' in Russia operates. It's basically a loose connection of individuals and networks operating in a way comparable to the Mafia, in areas (geographical or political) in which it doesn't work, Putin drops his own man in as a fixer. He's top dog but plenty others hold influence and are confidantes of him. The sistema is so tightly knit that whilst you can drop in a fixer, you can't just ship out everyone else. Everything is done informally and everyone holds their sphere of influence.

Incidentally she quoted Dmitry Medevedev who said it would take 100 years from the fall of the USSR to a functioning Russian democracy that respected the rule of law. One of the people she interviewed said 100 years was optimistic by about 2 centuries!

[Stairway 2 7]

No sanctions are or would have stopped this

Conflict News
@Conflicts
·
11m
BREAKING: UK PM Johnson says Western allies readying 'massive' package of sanctions against Russia, tells people of Ukraine: "We cannot and will not just look away

[Hibernian Verse]

No sanctions are or would have stopped this

Conflict News
@Conflicts
·
11m
BREAKING: UK PM Johnson says Western allies readying 'massive' package of sanctions against Russia, tells people of Ukraine: "We cannot and will not just look away

You can also read that as "We can't look away but we also can't put boots on the ground because the lunatic might unleash nuclear weapons on you".

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/Osinttechnical/status/1496826086646337540

Second airport near Kyiv being attacked

[hibsbollah]

I'm not sure it's true to say that this is solely down to Putin.

People who rely on ethnonationalism to maintain power generally surround themselves with similarly hawkish types. I read 'How Russia Really Works' by Alena Ledneva a few years ago and she details how the 'sistema' in Russia operates. It's basically a loose connection of individuals and networks operating in a way comparable to the Mafia, in areas (geographical or political) in which it doesn't work, Putin drops his own man in as a fixer. He's top dog but plenty others hold influence and are confidantes of him. The sistema is so tightly knit that whilst you can drop in a fixer, you can't just ship out everyone else. Everything is done informally and everyones hold their sphere of influence.

Incidentally she quoted Dmitry Medevedev who said it would take 100 years from the fall of the USSR to a functioning Russian democracy that respected the rule of law. One of the people she interviewed said 100 years was optimistic by about 2 centuries!


Constructing a democracy out of nothing (statebuilding) is a whole academic subject. The reason for so many failed states in Africa (corruption? racism? empire?) is always debated and depends on your political point of view. Then look at a country like South Korea where I have some interest, they had a US backed military dictatorship until the late 80s, democracy in that country is 30 year old and it functions incredibly well; politicians are held to account and imprisoned for corruption because the independent arm of the judiciary is above the executive power of politicians. (The UK could learn lessons in fact, and our democracy is hundreds of years in development.

Russia has never had genuine democracy from the days of the tsars.

[StevieC]

It’s blatant trolling on a huge and sensitive topic, should be banned really. If you’re going to say Russia is defending its borders by leaving its borders to enter another country and attacking it, you’re clearly trolling.

As someone that might be affected more than most by his posts, I wouldn’t want him banned.

He may be trolling for a reaction, but by leaving him to post it highlights the sort of thinking that is out there (albeit a small minority) and to make others aware so it can be questioned.

Banning just sends them scuttling back to the places they “hang out” to spraff about how the “sheep” are getting their minds warped by whatever organisation they claim to be controlling us.

[Moulin Yarns]

我敌人的敌人就是我的朋友

That's one way of bypassing the swear filter 😂

[Ozyhibby]

Still waiting on Johnson’s ‘swift and severe’ sanctions.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1496835431140319232

Mass exodus of refugees from #Ukraine at border with Slovakia

[WhileTheChief..]

Still waiting on Johnson’s ‘swift and severe’ sanctions.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To be announced at 5pm.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-60508671

[Northernhibee]

Dollars and some foreign currencies beginning to run out in Russian banks.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/michaelh992/status/1496838254963924997

Second Ukrainian power station bombed today.

Czech republic withdraw its ambassadors from Russia and Belarus

Poland raises state of alert of its forces

[Stairway 2 7]

Doubt they will win now...

The Independent
@Independent
· 1h
Russia can compete in Eurovision despite Ukraine invasion, organisers say

[ronaldo7]

I’ve not spoken to Misha yet, but he will have his hands full if he is evacuating Dnipro.

I’ve had lots of messages, both from Ukrainian friends in Dnipro and from friends in UK offering support.
I’m almost in tears with both worry for those in Ukraine and humbled by the offers of support.

People don’t know whether to flee or to sit tight, it is a hugely worrying time.

Just got a message from him. They're all safe for now.

[Northernhibee]

Doubt they will win now...

The Independent
@Independent
· 1h
Russia can compete in Eurovision despite Ukraine invasion, organisers say

Ludicrous decision from them.

[hibsbollah]

Still waiting on Johnson’s ‘swift and severe’ sanctions.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He says these massive sanctions are going to ‘hobble Russia’. Can’t wait to see the massive power he wields.

[hibsbollah]

Russia v Poland World Cup playoff in a few weeks will be interesting.
UEFA reported to be taking champions league final from St. Petersburg.

[Pretty Boy]

Doubt they will win now...

The Independent
@Independent
· 1h
Russia can compete in Eurovision despite Ukraine invasion, organisers say

2nd last for the UK this year then. Result.

[lord bunberry]

Russia v Poland World Cup playoff in a few weeks will be interesting.
UEFA reported to be taking champions league final from St. Petersburg.
Russia should be kicked out of the tournament.

[lord bunberry]

A question that has been asked many times in the years after WW2 by generations that didn’t live through it was, why did no one take hitler out. Will future generations be saying the same about Putin?

[Bostonhibby]

He says these massive sanctions are going to ‘hobble Russia’. Can’t wait to see the massive power he wields.He's been hoarding wine from Tesco Express in suitcases for months and he's not about to hand it over to any of his resident Russian cabal.

Guys largely an irrelevance in this crisis so this is about as serious as I can get when the jester is referred to.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Good thread from twitter on where this can go


Andrew L. Croxford@andrew_croxford·40m

🧵Just terrifying, isn’t it? Hard to concentrate on anything. Was having a conversation with a guy who’s pretty clued up on this stuff (in stark contrast to me) - he says it’s ok to post some content of our chat. He makes some interesting points

The UK has sent some 2,000 advanced anti-tank (NLAW) weapons and soldiers to train in their use which should enable Ukraine to better handle tanks & armoured vehicles but there’s not a lot of help for air and sea based attacks

Big concern is if a Russian aircraft strays into NATO airspace and is shot down. How might things escalate? Equally with sanctions, will UK and its firms start facing a wave of cyber attacks or other response? Are businesses / UK infrastructure ready to defend this?"

Another concern is will Ukraine become another Syria style insurgency with local fighters backed by the West and others by Russia. Nobody wants that, and the refugee outflux it would likely cause. Hungary already moving to close its borders to Ukraine reportedly."

Everyone waiting to see sanctions. UK and the West can go massive here if it has the will to do it, though Russia much better positioned than 2014. A few highlights

1) Russia not as reliant on SWIFT as it was. Has a domestic alternative now that handles ~20% of Russia’s transactions. Not nearly as good as SWIFT but can keep critical transactions flowing."

2) Russia has built up some $630b in forex reserve with one of the lowest sovereign debt levels for developed countries (something like 20%). Russia can weather this sanction for the foreseeable, especially if China and indeed the EU keep buying at current energy prices

3)Russia has materially reduced its exposure to USD since the annexation of Crimea

British, US and EU markets list and secondary list many of Russia’s largest firms (Gazprom, Rosneft and Sberbank to name a few). Cutting them off would be damaging to the Russian economy. That’s not even going into cutting off their banks and other financial institutions.

What does this mean for Switzerland which has tried to stay neutral. Will the EU and US allow it, or is it time to pick a side (forced?). Russia is good business, but nothing like the EU or US where Swiss firms will be highly vulnerable to penalties for bypassing sanctions."

That leads to the big question – EU and energy imports. The EU is hugely exposed with some 40% of Gas coming from Russia, though the UK isn’t at only 3%

Other levers are cutting off electronics, semiconductors, aircraft parts etc to Russia. This will cause damage to the Russian economy - stop them modernising. Yes they can retaliate by limiting certain natural resources in their manufacture, but it will hurt them way more."

It comes down to numbers. Russia 140M people with $1.7tr GDP which is 60% or so energy and natural resources. US and EU (inc UK) is some 844M with $37tr GDP, and that’s not including Canada and Japan etc who seem equally pissed about this."

"If we stand together, it’s inconceivable the West will break first. Only possible complication – what will China do? Good chance to get Russian gas & oil on the cheap, prop up struggling financial institutions and exert huge influence over it in the future

Also resurgent interest in South Korea about developing their own independent nuclear deterrent as they watch this, the West’s response and a possible scenario in their part of the world. Be careful the future you wish for." / End

[Lendo]

A question that has been asked many times in the years after WW2 by generations that didn’t live through it was, why did no one take hitler out. Will future generations be saying the same about Putin?

That’s assuming there will actually be a future generation in a few months time. A real danger of things spinning out of control and the warheads start to fly.

[Since90+2]

A question that has been asked many times in the years after WW2 by generations that didn’t live through it was, why did no one take hitler out. Will future generations be saying the same about Putin?

Easier said than done. Would need to be from a Russian close enough to him.

[LunasBoots]

Russia v Poland World Cup playoff in a few weeks will be interesting.
UEFA reported to be taking champions league final from St. Petersburg.

No fans or something like that I'd guess.

Game moved to a neutral venue.

Should be kicked out the tournament

[JeMeSouviens]

A question that has been asked many times in the years after WW2 by generations that didn’t live through it was, why did no one take hitler out. Will future generations be saying the same about Putin?

To be fair, it wasn't for the want of trying - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassination_attempts_on_Adolf_Hitler

Even more than I thought, it turns out!

[Stairway 2 7]

Oleksiy Sorokin@mrsorokaa·21m

⚡️Sirens in Kyiv, people asked to take shelter. The capital is awaiting an air strike on government buildings.

We’re in a bomb shelter. Scared

[Jones28]

https://twitter.com/kwaku_majesty_/status/1496849146438897671?s=20&t=2XKO7o09g55zpcsL3PQXhA

[SaulGoodman]

To be fair, it wasn't for the want of trying - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assassination_attempts_on_Adolf_Hitler

Even more than I thought, it turns out!

Metal how many attempts failed due to the smallest thing.

[SaulGoodman]

That’s assuming there will actually be a future generation in a few months time. A real danger of things spinning out of control and the warheads start to fly.

I can’t see that happening.

[Pretty Boy]

https://twitter.com/kwaku_majesty_/status/1496849146438897671?s=20&t=2XKO7o09g55zpcsL3PQXhA

That is awful to watch.

The girl looks comparable in age to my daughter and I can't even imagine what it must be like trying to cope with that moment.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-23/china-opposes-russia-sanctions-calls-u-s-actions-immoral

China sides with Russia. Time to start unwinding our reliance on China as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[LunasBoots]

Russia has taken Antonov Airport near Kyiv

[Hibee Ryan]

"Whoever tries to interfere with us, and even more so, to create threats for our country, for our people, should know that Russia's response will be immediate and will lead you to such consequences that you have never experienced in your history.

"We are ready for any development of events. All necessary decisions in this regard have been made."
His threats shouldn't be taken lightly, he's completely lost the plot, who knows what he could do if push comes to shove

This is the quote that terrifies me. The words he is choosing to use and his actions really do give you the idea that he is willing and, obviously, able to do the unthinkable.

[Stevie Reid]

Read this a couple of weeks back and it’s pretty depressing - and of course China will soften any effects in any case:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/02/putin-individual-sanctions-difficulty/

[Stairway 2 7]

This is the quote that terrifies me. The words he is choosing to use and his actions really do give you the idea that he is willing and, obviously, able to do the unthinkable.

Uk anti-tank NLAW's sent to Ukraine last week have destroyed dozens of Russian tanks today, wonder if we're in the black book now

[Since90+2]

This is the quote that terrifies me. The words he is choosing to use and his actions really do give you the idea that he is willing and, obviously, able to do the unthinkable.

Similar to the words Trump used against North Korea and fire and fury that the world has never seen ect.

[Ozyhibby]

Read this a couple of weeks back and it’s pretty depressing - and of course China will soften any effects in any case:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/02/02/putin-individual-sanctions-difficulty/

I wouldn’t go after Putins wealth store all. We should leave him alone among those who run Russia not facing any financial pain. Make it so that everyone around him is hurting but he is getting off scott free. Let’s test the loyalty of his underlings and the oligarch’s when it’s only them who being punished.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Russia has taken Antonov Airport near Kyiv

https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1496849053824471041
Natasha Bertrand
@NatashaBertrand
Breaking:
@mchancecnn
with Russian forces at the Antonov airport about 15 miles outside of Kyiv. "These troops you can see over here, they are Russian airborne forces. They have taken this airport

[LunasBoots]

Russians warned of to take to the streets to protest and will be dealt with swiftly

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2022-02-23/china-opposes-russia-sanctions-calls-u-s-actions-immoral

China sides with Russia. Time to start unwinding our reliance on China as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


the only thing we need china for is knocked off/stolen IP designs cheap goods, i started my personal revolt against the chinse economy three years ago :) every little helps


no doubt the Russian terrorist put this off until the Beijing Olympics finished, i felt for Japan when they didn't get income from fans for their Olympic games last year, i didn't feel any sadness whatsoever for the financial loss China will feel, sad for the Chinese public but not their government

god bless Ukraine and god bless Taiwan :)

[Stairway 2 7]

Richard Engel
@RichardEngel
·
6m
Advisor to Ukrainian interior ministry says Russian forces entered Chernobyl and that fighting there destroyed a nuclear waste storage facility 👀

[LunasBoots]

https://twitter.com/NatashaBertrand/status/1496849053824471041
Natasha Bertrand
@NatashaBertrand
Breaking:
@mchancecnn
with Russian forces at the Antonov airport about 15 miles outside of Kyiv. "These troops you can see over here, they are Russian airborne forces. They have taken this airport

At this rate Ukraine will be fully under Russian control very swiftly.

[hibsbollah]

Similar to the words Trump used against North Korea and fire and fury that the world has never seen ect.

Trump, Putin, the UK Defence Secretary Ben Wallace yesterday, Israel, Iran. Seems like dire warnings about how much of a kicking you're going to get are the thing to do as a world leader. Playground stuff. These are countless human lives being reduced to macho posturing. ******s.

[Hibee Ryan]

Similar to the words Trump used against North Korea and fire and fury that the world has never seen ect.

At least with Trump you knew he didn't have the ability to make the decision to launch all by himself. There was/is checks and balances to that power.

Whereas Putin seems to have free will to do whatever he pleases.

[WhileTheChief..]

I have difficulties with the first part of that. I'm not sure it was about NATO expansionism rather than some of the former Soviet nations seeking security guarantees after achieving independence. Ukraine and Georgia both wanted to be in Nato for years but not permitted and the West turner a blind eye when Russia invaded South Ossettia and Abkhazia in Georgia - which are still disputed territories to this day.

The West has done many wrong things around the world but this invasion by Putin has no justification and he has been engineering this for years. It's fairly clear he's starting to implement his desire to turn the clock back and reconstitute the Soviet Union.

Hugely difficult position for the West now with the choice of allowing a sovereign state to fall (with all the potential for grave human losses) or face a direct conflict with a nuclear powered nation. Its no win and that seems to be what Putin is playing on. China will be watching closely too with an eye on Taiwan.

Democracy is far from perfect but autocracies where there is no culture of challenge lead to very dark places.

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

Fantastic post.

There is no comparison at all between Russia’s actions today and anything the West has done in the last 75 years.

It’s scary how many people can’t see that and somehow think America are in part to blame for this mess.

[JimBHibees]

2nd last for the UK this year then. Result.

:greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

At this rate Ukraine will be fully under Russian control very swiftly.

I would think so. The easy bit it taking over a country, the hard bit is holding it.
The US and allies had over 300k troops in Iraq with far more impressive weaponry and couldn’t hold it.

Russia has 200k troops for taking Ukraine and it is a lot bigger and has twice the population. The local population is also better armed and has access to far better weaponry than the Iraqi’s had. They won’t need improvised Road side bombs. I can’t see anyway that Russia can hold Ukraine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

More strong rhetoric from Macron but actual action seems to be subject to squabbling and vested interests so far.

Understandable if not desirable with such a complex situation but it's time for robust leadership and decisive actions, not watered down compromises to protect personal interests.

[Jones28]

That is awful to watch.

The girl looks comparable in age to my daughter and I can't even imagine what it must be like trying to cope with that moment.

Same as me, I've got a 3 year old daughter.

The idea of packing them off on a bus in that situation is just heart breaking.

[Since90+2]

the only thing we need china for is knocked off/stolen IP designs cheap goods, i started my personal revolt against the chinse economy three years ago :) every little helps




If only that were the truth.

[Since90+2]

At least with Trump you knew he didn't have the ability to make the decision to launch all by himself. There was/is checks and balances to that power.

Whereas Putin seems to have free will to do whatever he pleases.

Are you sure? I'm pretty certain the US President as Commander in Chief has first and last decision over a nuclear strike.

[Paulie Walnuts]

So with Ukraine not being in NATO I presume there’s a decent chance that the UKs involvement won’t really stretch and further than sanctions etc.

Basically, do we think there’s a good chance the UK won’t physically be going to war?