Ukraine

[hibsbollah]

It's been done but.. its a Batallion of less than 900 in an army of 80,000. Ukraine had one of the lowest votes for far right groups in the last election than anywhere in Europe. The isreal Centre estimates 3% of Ukrainians are antisemitic compared to 10% in Russia. Ukrainian was the first country outside isreal to have a Jewish prime minister and president at the same time

There is a lot of total nonsense written by groups with no interest in anti semitism but want to use it as a political tool to silence criticism of Israel’s apartheid state and human rights abuses. How the **** can the ‘Israel Centre’ assess relative levels of anti semitism in Ukraine and Russia populations? The neo Nazi Ukrainian battalion exists, nobody said it formed a majority of its total forces, it’s relative size is irrelevant.

[Moulin Yarns]

There is a lot of total nonsense written by groups with no interest in anti semitism but want to use it as a political tool to silence criticism of Israel’s apartheid state and human rights abuses. How the **** can the ‘Israel Centre’ assess relative levels of anti semitism in Ukraine and Russia populations? The neo Nazi Ukrainian battalion exists, nobody said it formed a majority of its total forces, it’s relative size is irrelevant.

I think it formed to fight the Russian invasion of 2014 and took Mariopol back from Russian forces. After that success they were asked to become part of the Ukraine security forces.

[hibsbollah]

I think it formed to fight the Russian invasion of 2014 and took Mariopol back from Russian forces. After that success they were asked to become part of the Ukraine security forces.

Eastern and Central Europe is a very rich breeding ground for the far right, and has been for decades. Ukraine isn’t unique in having a problem and it would be odd if they were immune from it. I read about that battalion years ago, a sicker misogynistic fascist group of weirdos you couldn’t wish to meet. In some countries like the U.K., extreme right parties do poorly because the electoral system doesn’t favour them or that kind of voter thinks their concerns are well represented by a moderate right wing government. A lot more people vote for Le Pen or Zemmour in France than they would in the U.K., does that mean French people are more racist than Brits? Very doubtful.

[grunt]

The neo Nazi Ukrainian battalion exists, nobody said it formed a majority of its total forces, it’s relative size is irrelevant.Surely it has some relevance to the discussion?

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220317/eab7de5e0ce774f48d73d86452651abf.jpg

Companies still operating in Russia. No Subway sandwiches for me for the foreseeable future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Surely it has some relevance to the discussion?

Of course it does. They were only included because 8 years ago the Ukrainians feared Russia might invade their nation and put themselves in war footing, all men needed. They even are releasing prisoners with military experience just now to protect their cities from slaughter, I doubt anyone would say they are pro criminal but needs must.

To frame it as a reason to conquer a country lead by a Jew is ridiculous

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/adambienkov/status/1502718709944786947?s=21

Thread on Johnson links with Lebedev.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[greenginger]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220317/eab7de5e0ce774f48d73d86452651abf.jpg

Companies still operating in Russia. No Subway sandwiches for me for the foreseeable future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60733389

There are many companies can’t halt their name continuing to trade because of franchise agreements and third party operators.

These obstacles to ending operations in Russia may apply to some companies on the list.

[hibsbollah]

Surely it has some relevance to the discussion?

I think it’s something we absolutely should be discussing. There just seems to be a subtext that ‘there’s only 900 folk in this neo Nazi battalion so that makes it understandable ’, which is just a very strange, apologist type argument if you ask me.

[Stairway 2 7]

I think it’s something we absolutely should be discussing. There just seems to be a subtext that ‘there’s only 900 folk in this neo Nazi battalion so you have to see it in context’, which is just a very strange, apologist type argument if you ask me.

Nice sitting here safe watching netflix eating breakfast with our feet up telling a nation who were fearful of being conquered and their kids slaughtered, what they should be doing. As I said I doubt they are pro prisoner but they are releasing them to fight. Things can change when they are safe from literal slaughter

[hibsbollah]

Nice sitting here safe watching netflix eating breakfast with our feet up telling a nation who were fearful of being conquered and their kids slaughtered, what they should be doing. As I said I doubt they are pro prisoner but they are releasing them to fight. Things can change when they are safe from literal slaughter

I’m not telling anyone to do anything, I’m not sure where you get that from.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-60733389

There are many companies can’t halt their name continuing to trade because of franchise agreements and third party operators.

These obstacles to ending operations in Russia may apply to some companies on the list.

They need to everything they can to halt business in Russia. Most franchise deals can be terminating by the company if their brand is being harmed and it is in this case. Not interested in their excuses. If they are operating in Russia then I’m not interested in using their services.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[stokesmessiah]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220317/eab7de5e0ce774f48d73d86452651abf.jpg

Companies still operating in Russia. No Subway sandwiches for me for the foreseeable future.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don’t honestly see the point in this as it’s not just as easy as some people think. My employer does business in Russia and has scaled back operations massively but can’t just switch it off completely. They are not on this list but I have seen their name on other ones…

[Stairway 2 7]

I’m not telling anyone to do anything, I’m not sure where you get that from.

Discussions about it from our safety, when their bairns are getting blown up is ivory towers stuff

When they are not in a war footing they can hopefully do something. They don't have a far right problem compared to many nations around them and are Infact very inclusive, them having a Jewish pm and president at the same time shows this

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/gabriel_pogrund/status/1504173481637949441?s=21

BBC says source confirmed Johnson ignored security advice on lebedev.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WhileTheChief..]

They need to everything they can to halt business in Russia. Most franchise deals can be terminating by the company if their brand is being harmed and it is in this case. Not interested in their excuses. If they are operating in Russia then I’m not interested in using their services.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There was a bit bout this on Newsnight last night.

Some of these companies want to stop trading in Russia but can't.

It's not excuses, it's real world laws etc!!

[hibsbollah]

Discussions about it from our safety, when their bairns are getting blown up is ivory towers stuff

When they are not in a war footing they can hopefully do something. They don't have a far right problem compared to many nations around them and are Infact very inclusive, them having a Jewish pm and president at the same time shows this

When you say ‘do something’ do you mean disband the battalion? I think that’s very unlikely. The war is only 23 days old and the battalion has been in existence for 7(?) years.

[Moulin Yarns]

There was a bit bout this on Newsnight last night.

Some of these companies want to stop trading in Russia but can't.

It's not excuses, it's real world laws etc!!

Is invading a neighbouring country not against world laws etc?

[Stairway 2 7]

Even at this conservative estimate and the average is 3 to 1 injured to dead. 16% of Russia’s troops will be gone

ELINT News
@ELINTNews
·
NYT: “More than 7,000 Russian troops have been killed in less than three weeks of fighting, according to conservative US estimates.”

“Ukrainians intercepted a (Russian) general’s call, geolocated it, and attacked his location, killing him and his staff.” https://nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/

[Stairway 2 7]

When you say ‘do something’ do you mean disband the battalion? I think that’s very unlikely. The war is only 23 days old and the battalion has been in existence for 7(?) years.

And they have been in a war footing all that time with the fear of Russia slaughtering them. This all might be a surprise to the west but Ukraine were waiting for the inevitable. Just like the prisoners freed to fight, they need every man they can.

[Stairway 2 7]

Even at this conservative estimate and the average is 3 to 1 injured to dead. 16% of Russia’s troops will be gone

ELINT News
@ELINTNews
·
NYT: “More than 7,000 Russian troops have been killed in less than three weeks of fighting, according to conservative US estimates.”

“Ukrainians intercepted a (Russian) general’s call, geolocated it, and attacked his location, killing him and his staff.” https://nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/
Probably somewhere in between

NEXTA
@nexta_tv
·
2h
The General Staff of the Armed Forces of #Ukraine reports that about 14,000 #Russian soldiers have been killed

[hibsbollah]

And they have been in a war footing all that time with the fear of Russia slaughtering them. This all might be a surprise to the west but Ukraine were waiting for the inevitable. Just like the prisoners freed to fight, they need every man they can.

Really? Everything I’ve read suggests that most Ukrainians never saw an invasion like this in their worst nightmares. Nothing like this has happened since Soviet tanks rolled into Czechoslovakia and Hungary in the 50s, even then there wasn’t indiscriminate shelling. Nobody expected it.

[JeMeSouviens]

Even at this conservative estimate and the average is 3 to 1 injured to dead. 16% of Russia’s troops will be gone

ELINT News
@ELINTNews
·
NYT: “More than 7,000 Russian troops have been killed in less than three weeks of fighting, according to conservative US estimates.”

“Ukrainians intercepted a (Russian) general’s call, geolocated it, and attacked his location, killing him and his staff.” https://nytimes.com/2022/03/16/us/

For context, that's about the same number as the US lost in 20 years in Iraq - in 3 weeks.

[Stairway 2 7]

Really? Everything I’ve read suggests that most Ukrainians never saw an invasion like this in their worst nightmares. Nothing like this has happened since Soviet tanks rolled into Czechoslovakia and Hungary in the 50s, even then there wasn’t indiscriminate shelling. Nobody expected it.

All the Ukrainian military were expecting and waiting for this. Hence they were dug in in positions all around the country. Also why the uk have been training thousands of Ukrainian soldiers for the last 5 years. Giving them thousands of nlaws in the last few years and training snipers. Russia tried their luck in Georgia and have been using their same Syrian play book page by page in Ukraine.

It was a huge surprise to Russia how ready the Ukrainian military were and left them wondering why they are getting decimated

[Kato]

Really? Everything I’ve read suggests that most Ukrainians never saw an invasion like this in their worst nightmares. Nothing like this has happened since Soviet tanks rolled into Czechoslovakia and Hungary in the 50s, even then there wasn’t indiscriminate shelling. Nobody expected it.Your last line is over-egging that situation. They have been fighting the Russians since 2014, many people have been given military training. They may not have expected the ferocity and sheer cowardliness of some the attacks but its been on cards for years.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

For context, that's about the same number as the US lost in 20 years in Iraq - in 3 weeks.

It's unbelievable, first word war style losses. What were they thinking using tanks against a nation with thousands of nlaws. Very soon wars will be a battle of drones, missiles and air defenses

[hibsbollah]

All the Ukrainian military were expecting and waiting for this. Hence they were dug in in positions all around the country. Also why the uk have been training thousands of Ukrainian soldiers for the last 5 years. Giving them thousands of nlaws in the last few years and training snipers. Russia tried their luck in Georgia and have been using their same Syrian play book page by page in Ukraine.

It was a huge surprise to Russia how ready the Ukrainian military were and left them wondering why they are getting decimated

You’re using hindsight. Have you got any links from say 2019 or 2020 to articles suggesting Ukrainians thought Russia was likely to invade? The overwhelming consensus was that it was just sabre rattling.

[Lendo]

It's unbelievable, first word war style losses. What were they thinking using tanks against a nation with thousands of nlaws. Very soon wars will be a battle of drones, missiles and air defenses

It does look like Putin gambled on keeping his main air assets in reserve in anticipation for NATO involved that never materialised. Now having not established air supremacy he’s utterly ****ed it and convoys, tanks and supply lines are just sitting ducks.

[Stairway 2 7]

It does look like Putin gambled on keeping his main air assets in reserve in anticipation for NATO involved that never materialised. Now having not established air supremacy he’s utterly ****ed it and convoys, tanks and supply lines are just sitting ducks.

They thought it would be a 4 day war. I don't think Putin knew how badly funded the army was, didn't think Ukraine would be as well trained as they were also. It might have been different if they managed to take Kyiv, but it seems unlikely they ever were

[Stairway 2 7]

You’re using hindsight. Have you got any links from say 2019 or 2020 to articles suggesting Ukrainians thought Russia was likely to invade? The overwhelming consensus was that it was just sabre rattling.

16,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died in the last 8 years fighting with Russia. CIA have been training Ukraine since then also. They have been training the general public all over the country in weapons training since 2016. Russia started heavily amassing most of its troops round the border over a year ago

[hibsbollah]

16,000 Ukrainian soldiers have died in the last 8 years fighting with Russia. CIA have been training Ukraine since then also. They have been training the general public all over the country in weapons training since 2016. Russia started heavily amassing most of its troops round the border over a year ago

There is no dispute about those facts. That doesn’t mean Ukraine expected Russia to invade.

[Stairway 2 7]

Not just France, Ital, Germany and Spain were supplying Russian weapons that they are now using on Ukraine. There was supposed to be an embargo on

https://www.investigate-europe.eu/en/2022/eu-states-exported-weapons-to-russia/

EU member states exported weapons to Russia after the 2014 embargo
Missiles, aircraft, rockets, torpedoes, bombs. Russia continued to buy EU weapons until at least 2020. Despite the ongoing embargo, ten member states exported € 346 million worth of military equipment, according to public data analysed by Investigate Europe. Some of these weapons could be used against the Ukraine now

Our destinies are linked. Ukraine is part of the European family. Vladimir Putin’s aggression is an aggression against all the principles we hold dear” said EU Commission president Ursula von der Leyen. Last week’s Versailles summit showed how the European Union is trying to unite after the Russian invasion of Ukraine.

Yet, just over a year ago, Vladimir Putin and his army were still good customers of the European arms industry. A third of the European Union’s member states exported arms to the Russian Federation, according to data from the official Working Party of the Council on Conventional Arms Exports (COARM), analysed by Investigate Europe.

This data from all EU-27 official arms exports registers shows that between 2015 and 2020, at least 10 EU member states have exported a total of €346 million worth of arms to Russia.s. France, Germany, Italy, Austria, Bulgaria, Czech Republic, Croatia, Finland, Slovakia and Spain – to different extents – have sold “military equipment” to Russia. Our investigation shows that the term “military equipment” is broad and can include missiles, bombs, torpedoes, guns and rockets, land vehicles and ships.

[Stairway 2 7]

There is no dispute about those facts. That doesn’t mean Ukraine expected Russia to invade.

Why did they set up defensive positions all along the Russian and Belarusian border, to protect against alien invasion. They have been at war with Russia for almost a decade. They were thankfully ready and waiting

[Stairway 2 7]

NEXTA
@nexta_tv
·

#NATO will not intervene in the conflict in #Ukraine, said #German Chancellor Olaf Scholz

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/zelensky-scolds-germanys-olaf-scholz-for-dragging-his-feet-qznq36l75#Echobox=1647512998

Zelensky tells Germany’s Scholz to stop dithering and ‘tear down this wall’

President Zelensky has urged Germany to stop dithering and prioritising “business, business, business” in a scathing speech to the Bundestag that evoked memories of the Third Reich and the Berlin Wall.

Addressing German MPs via videolink from Kyiv, the Ukrainian leader said a “new wall” was rising in the heart of Europe and Germans would be “ashamed” of themselves if they did not do more to help Ukraine.
He accused Germany of ignoring years of warnings about the Kremlin’s malign intentions, dragging its feet on sanctions such as an embargo on Russian fossil fuels, and hindering Ukraine’s efforts to joint the European Union. Germany’s reticence suggested that it had failed to learn the lessons of the crimes carried out by the Nazi regime


Röb Schmitz
@rob_schmitz
German Twitter in full schadenfreude after Zelenskyy's scathing address to Germany's parliament this morning in which he essentially accused those assembled of being complicit bystanders to Russia's war through their Russian business ties, indecision, & lack of leadership

[Stairway 2 7]

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
·

Over 40,000 Syrians have registered to travel to Ukraine and fight for Russia, according to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights

[Stairway 2 7]

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
·

After last-minute changes, 100 miniature-sized loitering munition “Swtichblade” drones were added to the list of weapons that President Biden yesterday announced will be sent to Ukraine - CNN

[cabbageandribs1875]

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
·

Over 40,000 Syrians have registered to travel to Ukraine and fight for Russia, according to the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights



i hope every single one of them makes it back home







in a bodybag

[grunt]

https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1504440205352349700?s=20&t= (https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1504440205352349700?s=20&t=zwHS9rciIkN3MpcXpIgsZQ)

Three independent sources report that the deputy chief of Russia's Rosgvardia (a unit of RU's interior army which has had tremendous losses in Ukraine), Gen. Roman Gavrilov has been detained by FSB. Gavrilov had also previously worked in FSO, Putin's security service.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1504440205352349700?s=20&t= (https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1504440205352349700?s=20&t=zwHS9rciIkN3MpcXpIgsZQ)

Three independent sources report that the deputy chief of Russia's Rosgvardia (a unit of RU's interior army which has had tremendous losses in Ukraine), Gen. Roman Gavrilov has been detained by FSB. Gavrilov had also previously worked in FSO, Putin's security service.

Arrest your generals mid battle due to losses, sure that will breed confidence

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/zelensky-scolds-germanys-olaf-scholz-for-dragging-his-feet-qznq36l75#Echobox=1647512998

Zelensky tells Germany’s Scholz to stop dithering and ‘tear down this wall’

President Zelensky has urged Germany to stop dithering and prioritising “business, business, business” in a scathing speech to the Bundestag that evoked memories of the Third Reich and the Berlin Wall.

Addressing German MPs via videolink from Kyiv, the Ukrainian leader said a “new wall” was rising in the heart of Europe and Germans would be “ashamed” of themselves if they did not do more to help Ukraine.
He accused Germany of ignoring years of warnings about the Kremlin’s malign intentions, dragging its feet on sanctions such as an embargo on Russian fossil fuels, and hindering Ukraine’s efforts to joint the European Union. Germany’s reticence suggested that it had failed to learn the lessons of the crimes carried out by the Nazi regime


Röb Schmitz
@rob_schmitz
German Twitter in full schadenfreude after Zelenskyy's scathing address to Germany's parliament this morning in which he essentially accused those assembled of being complicit bystanders to Russia's war through their Russian business ties, indecision, & lack of leadership
Totals sold
25681

[Stairway 2 7]

Horrible chocolate and coffee anyway

https://twitter.com/Denys_Shmyhal/status/1504384528806297604

Denys Shmyhal
@Denys_Shmyhal

Ukraine government official
Talked to
@Nestle
CEO Mr. Mark Schneider about the side effect of staying in Russian market. Unfortunately, he shows no understanding. Paying taxes to the budget of a terrorist country means killing defenseless children&mothers. Hope that Nestle will change its mind soon

[Coco Bryce]

Horrible chocolate and coffee anyway

https://twitter.com/Denys_Shmyhal/status/1504384528806297604

Denys Shmyhal
@Denys_Shmyhal

Ukraine government official
Talked to
@Nestle
CEO Mr. Mark Schneider about the side effect of staying in Russian market. Unfortunately, he shows no understanding. Paying taxes to the budget of a terrorist country means killing defenseless children&mothers. Hope that Nestle will change its mind soon

Not just chocolate & coffee.

25682

[Lendo]

Arrest your generals mid battle due to losses, sure that will breed confidence

Stalin would have just given them a pistol and told them to get on with it.

[WhileTheChief..]

Is invading a neighbouring country not against world laws etc?


Grow up. Or put me on ignore.

Either way, please don't quote me in future.

[WhileTheChief..]

i hope every single one of them makes it back home







in a bodybag

Syrians??

The very country where we were expected to take unlimited refugees from. Couldn't make it up.

[Stairway 2 7]

Harwood is a prat but decent idea. I wonder how many would agree to an afghani, hopefully similar although I'm doubtful. Plus majority of Ukrainians will be women and children which more would be happy to home I suspect

The New Statesman
@NewStatesman

With 120,000 applications from British people in its first day alone, the project has the makings of a big success story

Tom Harwood
@tomhfh
·

Currently 12,000 Afghan refugees are stuck in hotels, costing the taxpayer £1.2 million every single day.

Let's open the Homes for Ukraine scheme to them too. It's an integration promoting, money saving, compassion boosting no brainer

[Stairway 2 7]

Syrians??

The very country where we were expected to take unlimited refugees from. Couldn't make it up.

All Syrians aren't pro regime soldiers. Most are just mums dads, butchers, bakers and candlestick makers ect

[lapsedhibee]

I wonder how many would agree to an afghani, hopefully similar although I'm doubtful.

Would have thought everyone would agree to that, as an afghani is money.

[Stairway 2 7]

Be some droopy faces in St Petersberg


Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
·

U.S. drugmaker AbbVie, which owns the cosmetic medicine Botox, announced that it is halting operations inside Russia.

The company joins a growing list of pharmaceutical companies leaving Russia after Putin’s invasion of Ukraine

[Stairway 2 7]

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
·

I can confirm that he has gone voluntarily to defend Ukraine and to fight against the occupiers of the whole free world, including the defense of democracy in Latvia,

says the Latvian Minister of Justice
@Bordans
about MP Jurašs leaving for Ukraine

[WhileTheChief..]

All Syrians aren't pro regime soldiers. Most are just mums dads, butchers, bakers and candlestick makers ect

I know, but 40,000 is a pretty large number I'm sure you'll agree :aok:

[Stairway 2 7]

I know, but 40,000 is a pretty large number I'm sure you'll agree :aok:

It's probably nonsense apparently only 150 have travelled so far. 40,000 is probably most of asads infantry

[Stairway 2 7]

Hugo Gye
@HugoGye
·

Western allies are no longer sure whether or not Russia will launch an all-out attack on Kyiv: "There is a question as to whether Moscow now intends to try to assault Kyiv or not," official says.

[Stairway 2 7]

Russian advisor to Zelensky

NEXTA
@nexta_tv
·

Podolyak: A meeting between Zelenskyy and Putin may take place in the next few weeks, when the peace treaty will be finished

[Stairway 2 7]

Hugo Gye
@HugoGye
·

Western allies are no longer sure whether or not Russia will launch an all-out attack on Kyiv: "There is a question as to whether Moscow now intends to try to assault Kyiv or not," official says.
@Hugogye
Putin's army has failed to take full control in any Ukrainian cities so far, Western officials say: "Russians in any complete way have not yet taken over any Ukrainian cities." Continued fears about possible "Grozny-fication" of cities which resist

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/schwarzenegger/status/1504426844199669762?s=21

Brilliant from Arnie.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

https://twitter.com/schwarzenegger/status/1504426844199669762?s=21

Brilliant from Arnie.

:agree:

[WhileTheChief..]

https://twitter.com/schwarzenegger/status/1504426844199669762?s=21

Brilliant from Arnie.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Very impressive.

Hopefully the message gets through to as many Russians as possible.

[Lendo]

https://twitter.com/schwarzenegger/status/1504426844199669762?s=21

Brilliant from Arnie.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

He’s such a charismatic man. I sincerely hope it works.

[grunt]

https://twitter.com/schwarzenegger/status/1504426844199669762?s=21

Brilliant from Arnie.
Agreed.

[He's here!]

Those joining the Ukrainian 'international platoons'...brave or reckless?

Scots parents return from holiday to find son is at war in Ukraine - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-60779278)

[Lendo]

Those joining the Ukrainian 'international platoons'...brave or reckless?

Scots parents return from holiday to find son is at war in Ukraine - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-60779278)

Is it just me that thinks this is a weird thing to say?

“He has no military background, but Brian said he was not completely inexperienced.


"He is fit boy and he has some rifle experience," said Brian. "He's a crack shot. There's more to it. He knows how to handle weapons.”

[Stairway 2 7]

Those joining the Ukrainian 'international platoons'...brave or reckless?

Scots parents return from holiday to find son is at war in Ukraine - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-60779278)

It's up to them I suppose, good on them. Like the boys that went from all over to fight Franco. If you tolerate this then your children will be next

[grunt]

Hibs playing their part with a collection of items to be donated to people in Ukraine

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOEUZAlXIAwddqA?format=jpg&name=medium

[stu in nottingham]

Seems the 48 evacuated Dnipro Kids currently in Poland are stranded there unless the UK government address the 'paperwork' issue to allow them to travel. There's a plane set up to bring them to safety in Scotland tomorrow (Friday) which will be travelling empty if this is not resolved. Raab blames it on 'Safeguarding' concerns. Unreal.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukraine-refugees-orphans-scotland-snp-b2037084.html

[lapsedhibee]

Seems the 48 evacuated Dnipro Kids currently in Poland are stranded there unless the UK government address the 'paperwork' issue to allow them to travel. There's a plane set up to bring them to safety in Scotland tomorrow (Friday) which will be travelling empty if this is not resolved. Raab blames it on 'Safeguarding' concerns. Unreal.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/ukraine-refugees-orphans-scotland-snp-b2037084.html

:tsk tsk: Only right and proper that orphans have their parents' permission before they leave Poland. :crazy:

[JeMeSouviens]

Hibs playing their part with a collection of items to be donated to people in Ukraine

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FOEUZAlXIAwddqA?format=jpg&name=medium

I think we should send the Goram picture to Russia tbh.

[Stairway 2 7]

Paul McLeary
@paulmcleary
After the Russian invasion of Ukraine, “European security has fundamentally changed. There will be no going back to February 23,” a European diplomat just told reporters in a frank briefing

NEXTA
@nexta_tv
·
8m
Since the beginning of the war, more than 320,000 Ukrainians have returned to #Ukraine. Most of them are men.

[Jones28]

Those joining the Ukrainian 'international platoons'...brave or reckless?

Scots parents return from holiday to find son is at war in Ukraine - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-60779278)

Brave beyond belief imo.

[w pilton hibby]

Dnipro orphans coming to Scotland 😀

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/dnipro-kids-ukrainian-orphans-will-touch-down-in-scotland-on-monday-after-green-light-from-uk-government-3616496

[He's here!]

Is it just me that thinks this is a weird thing to say?

“He has no military background, but Brian said he was not completely inexperienced.


"He is fit boy and he has some rifle experience," said Brian. "He's a crack shot. There's more to it. He knows how to handle weapons.”



Yes I thought that was a curious comment too.

[Santa Cruz]

Dnipro orphans coming to Scotland 😀

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/dnipro-kids-ukrainian-orphans-will-touch-down-in-scotland-on-monday-after-green-light-from-uk-government-3616496

Great news finally! Will be a massive relief for Stevie and his team.

[WhileTheChief..]

Yes I thought that was a curious comment too.

There's more to him being there than being able to fire a rifle.

As in, you don't need experience with guns to be able to help.

[Stairway 2 7]

Private Eye Magazine
@PrivateEyeNews
IT company Infosys “does not see any impact on delivery or services” from its Moscow operations as a result of UK sanctions - which is good news for its £500m-investor, chancellor Rishi Sunak’s wife! Full story in the new Private Eye, on sale now.

[Stairway 2 7]

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
·
The US citizen who was killed in Ukraine today, James Whitney Hill, had traveled to Chernihiv in December last year for his partner - a Ukrainian - to be treated for multiple sclerosis - NYT

[Stairway 2 7]

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
·

Moldova has called on Russia to withdraw it troops from Transnistria.

President Maia Sandu demanded a “complete and unconditional withdrawal of Russian forces” from the unrecognized breakaway region during yesterday’s UN General Assembly meeting

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/17/tory-mp-backs-calls-for-marks-spencer-to-shut-stores-in-russia?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1647545534

M&S still not closed it’s Moscow stores. Disgrace. Their taxes in Russia will be funding Ukrainian deaths.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibernian Verse]

What was the outcome of all those military planes leaving Moscow earlier today for the mountains?

[Ozyhibby]

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
·

Moldova has called on Russia to withdraw it troops from Transnistria.

President Maia Sandu demanded a “complete and unconditional withdrawal of Russian forces” from the unrecognized breakaway region during yesterday’s UN General Assembly meeting

I’m sure Georgia will be looking at taking their break away regions back as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

he's Cuckoo :loser:Putin Says Russia Must Undergo a 'Self-Cleansing of Society' to Purge '*******s and Traitors' | Military.com (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/03/16/putin-says-russia-must-undergo-self-cleansing-of-society-purge-*******s-and-traitors.html?fbclid=IwAR0FpmQ4fjC7uUAJB0S7STSmuaL I8knyQFk1WVVftBo6JGTcZUp0PAukt9I)

Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a speech Wednesday that Russia should undergo a "self-cleaning of society" to get rid of the "b******s and traitors" as thousands of Russians try to flee the country amid its invasion into Ukraine.

[Stairway 2 7]

he's Cuckoo :loser:Putin Says Russia Must Undergo a 'Self-Cleansing of Society' to Purge '*******s and Traitors' | Military.com (https://www.military.com/daily-news/2022/03/16/putin-says-russia-must-undergo-self-cleansing-of-society-purge-*******s-and-traitors.html?fbclid=IwAR0FpmQ4fjC7uUAJB0S7STSmuaL I8knyQFk1WVVftBo6JGTcZUp0PAukt9I)

Russian President Vladimir Putin said in a speech Wednesday that Russia should undergo a "self-cleaning of society" to get rid of the "b******s and traitors" as thousands of Russians try to flee the country amid its invasion into Ukraine.

Good old fashioned fascist talk that

[WeeRussell]

Good old fashioned fascist talk that

Just ticking off the final few things left on his ‘utter c***’ list.

[WhileTheChief..]

Going back to the Soviet days and building walls to stop anyone leaving?

How far can he go before someone stops him?

[Stairway 2 7]

NEXTA
@nexta_tv
·

Apple will not sell the new iPhone SE and other devices in #Russia from the spring presentation

[WeeRussell]

Going back to the Soviet days and building walls to stop anyone leaving?

How far can he go before someone stops him?

It’s obviously not good the way he’s going on, but I wonder if a slight positive we can take from it is that Russia are starting to feel enough backlash for him to want to comment?

Still hoping for that assassination date.

[Ozyhibby]

M&S singled out for criticism on Question Time tonight. I think they won’t be able to hold their line much longer and we’ll find out those contracts were able to be terminated after all.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Lots of anti nestle memes online tonight, pressure on all the companies is good

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
·

Russian rubbles are more important than the war, says the graffiti on this French owned supermarket in Poland.

Auchan is one of the supermarket groups that has not chosen to exit the Russian market

[Ozyhibby]

Lots of anti nestle memes online tonight, pressure on all the companies is good

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
·

Russian rubbles are more important than the war, says the graffiti on this French owned supermarket in Poland.

Auchan is one of the supermarket groups that has not chosen to exit the Russian market

I’d say by the weekend there will be demonstrations outside M&S.


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[Hibrandenburg]

Totals sold
25681Interesting that the UK is not represented in that chart.

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[cabbageandribs1875]

Harrods caught selling 1.5-litre bottles of Russian vodka 'under the counter' for £100

Selfridges have £150 Russian spirits on the shelf


Abramovich flying Bermuda's red ensign flag on two superyachts allowing him british protection on the high seas, also allows him british consular assistance and protection of the Royal Navy.....ffs just parade him outside No10 shaking hands with Big Dog

[lapsedhibee]

Interesting that the UK is not represented in that chart.


:agree: A Brexit benefit. You can produce a chart of Member States' activities which you think might make the EU look bad without including the UK's activities.

[He's here!]

Lots of anti nestle memes online tonight, pressure on all the companies is good

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
·

Russian rubbles are more important than the war, says the graffiti on this French owned supermarket in Poland.

Auchan is one of the supermarket groups that has not chosen to exit the Russian market

https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/marks--spencer-unable-shut-26489139

I read that several companies (among them Burger King and M&S IIRC) can't physically close the stores due to the franchise set-up. They can only stop supplying them. Think it was a BBC report, but this was in the Mirror yesterday.

[Stairway 2 7]

Interesting that the UK is not represented in that chart.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

Because they didn't sell any to Russia 😃 they gave thousands to Ukraine mind over £100 million in nlaws pre war alone.

The same investigation team that found Germany and France illegally sold hundreds of thousands of arms to Russia recently, also done a great piece on dodgy Russian money in London

https://www.investigate-europe.eu/en/2022/londongrad-a-citys-addiction-to-russian-oligarchs-and-easy-money/

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/marks--spencer-unable-shut-26489139

I read that several companies (among them Burger King and M&S IIRC) can't physically close the stores due to the franchise set-up. They can only stop supplying them. Think it was a BBC report, but this was in the Mirror yesterday.

Mercedes and BMW said the same as m and s. But they have stopped supplying cars and parts so will soon grind to a halt

[Jack]

Because they didn't sell any to Russia 😃 they gave thousands to Ukraine mind over £100 million in nlaws pre war alone.

The same investigation team that found Germany and France illegally sold hundreds of thousands of arms to Russia recently, also done a great piece on dodgy Russian money in London

https://www.investigate-europe.eu/en/2022/londongrad-a-citys-addiction-to-russian-oligarchs-and-easy-money/

A simple Google check will show that is not true although sales of arms has reduced since Crimea.

[Stairway 2 7]

A simple Google check will show that is not true although sales of arms has reduced since Crimea.

It's basically nothing since the embargo, just fulfilled orders and non lethal and completely zero since 2017

[hibsbollah]

They have been at war with Russia for almost a decade

:dunno: I mean, they factually, indisputably haven’t.

[Stairway 2 7]

:dunno: I mean, they factually, indisputably haven’t.

Are you trying to say the separatist aren't Russian withRussianweapons?

[Stairway 2 7]

Unbelievable thread on the war, Russias poor upkeep of their military and Ukraines getting ready for this. Was written two weeks ago and is still spot on ,some bit bellow

https://twitter.com/kamilkazani/status/1497993363076915204

Kamil Galeev
@kamilkazani
Why Russia will lose this war?

Much of the "realist" discourse is about accepting Putin's victory, cuz it's *guaranteed*. But how do we know it is?

I'll argue that analysts 1) overrate Russian army 2) underrate Ukrainian one 3) misunderstand Russian strategy & political goals🧵

First, Russian invading force is small. It has LOTS of artillery ofc. But it's not numerous enough to win. Pro-Russian analysts compare their advance with Barbarossa. But unlike Wehrmacht in 1941 Russian invaders have only *ONE ECHELON OF TROUPS

But on a deeper level Putin is absolutely correct. His declaration of "special operation" in Ukraine is sincere, because he didn't expect the war. He doesn't know how to do wars. For all of his life he's been organising and launching the special operations

Later he initiated conflicts each time his had to boost his popularity and tough image. Chechnya, Georgia, Syria. But neither of this was a war. Every conflict was a Special operation waged:

1) for political goals
2) against small force which had no chance to win against Russia

Putin decided to repeat this little trick again. Hence, not that numerous army of invasion, only one echelon of advance, etc. But Ukraine is much bigger - it has 44 million people. What was Putin thinking? Apparently he was expecting zero resistance from the Ukrainian army

Putin had a good reason to believe so. Indeed, in 2014 Russian regulars ("ихтамнеты" = "there aren't any of them there") easily destroyed Ukrainian forces in Debaltsevo and Ilovaysk. He saw that Ukrainian army is weak and he can easily route them simply sending Russian regulars

Strategically speaking Putin ****ed up. He defeated Ukraine, inflicted pain and humiliation. Anyone with an IQ above the room temperature knew the war is not over and Russians would strike again. But - Putin didn't finish Ukraine back then. He thought he'd always have a chance

What happened next was quite predictable. Inflicting a painful but not critical defeat on your enemy is risky. Yeah, they kinda became weaker. But the balance of power within them changed. Court politics maxing interest groups lost and efficiency maxing upstarts get a chance

Nothing motivates as hard as an existential threat. First, Ukrainians admitted the truth:

«I'll be frank. Today we have no army. Now we can assemble a group of 5 thousand capable soldiers max [out of 125 on paper]"

- reported minister of defence in 2014

In 2014 Ukrainian equipment was awful. Almost 100% vehicle and ammunition were 25+ year old Soviet stocks. Moreover, most of it just expired. Like vehicles existed on paper but were never checked or used since 1991. Their radiators, accumulators all rotten and unrepairable

Judging by the interviews with insurgents who were disappointed to find that rockets, shells, grenades taken from Ukrainian warehouses were 99% dysfunctional (ofc, they were 25+ years old) it's not surprising Ukraine lost to Russia in 2014. It's surprising they could fight at all

A lot has changed. First, Ukraine has had six drafts. Men were drafted and sent to Donbass. Then most demobilised and returned to civilian life. This Donbass contingent was around 60 thousand soldiers and constantly rotated. So now Ukraine has 400 000+ veterans of Donbass war

Many of them were in combat. Thus Ukraine has huge number of veterans with combat experience. Probably more than Russia. Yes, Russia has been fighting in Syria. It never published the size of its force but it's estimated to be 2-3 thousand. Most Russian soldiers have not seen war

Furthermore, combat they've seen is different. Russian soldiers are used to fighting only when they total superiority. In Syria they would just level cities to the ground with bombers. Meanwhile, Ukrainian soldiers have fought only against far stronger and better equipped enemy

However, Ukrainians got a number (unpublished) of American-produced Javelins and M141 Bunker Defeat Munition, & British-Swedish produced MBT LAWs. Together with Ukrainian produced anti-tank weaponry such as «Stugna-P», RK-3 "Corsar" and «Barrier» it helps to fight Russian tanks

Ukrainian troops hadn't received many new tanks by the time Putin attacked. But they got new armoured vehicles, such as domestic-produced Cossack-2 with Turkish produced Aselsan fighting modules and a number of American armoured vehicles, humvees, etc
Finally, Ukraine created a new type of troops - the troops of territorial defence, whose number is estimated in 60 000. It's a copy of the Polish troop type. These are civilians who get military training and can be mobilised in a day to fight only in their own town and region

Why? Well, that's pretty obvious. If Russia made a proper Blitzkrieg with several echelons of attack, Ukraine would lose anyway. But Russia didn't. And Ukrainians bet that they wouldn't. First - it's costly and difficult for a state security regime which isn't landmaxing

Second, Putin expected Ukrainian army to run away or surrender in the first day. Like most of foreign observers expected. Now they're of course changing the narrative, but if you look at their posts few days ago they didn't believe that Ukrainians would make any real resistance

So Putin attacked with only one echelon. Troops pushed forward leaving many non-destroyed Ukrainian regulars and levy behind. In a proper Blitzkrieg a second and third echelon would have come to finish Ukrainian defenders. But they didn't. These additional echelons didn't exist

Which immediately created the supply and replenishment problem. The first echelon pushed forward. It needs a supply in ammo, in fuel and well, in people. But these supply convoys are being attacked by the regulars and territorial defence troops left behind

These people would be unable to stand against the Russian columns but they can attack convoys. Consider that Ukraine has many veterans with combat experience among civilians

Putin is apparently concerned. In the video of 25 Feb he called for Ukrainian military to do a coup d'erat. He wouldn't need it if his plan worked in the first place


The defeat in this operation will inflict enormous consequences for Putin and his regime. They are unlikely to survive this defeat. Meanwhile, it's unlikely that Putin wins by the same methods

hat Putin can do?

1. Start destroying infrastructure (done)
2. Blockade cities (done)
3. Simply level cities with bombers and artillery like in Chechnya or Syria (may be)

The first two would inflict humanitarian catastrophe and as he hopes break the will

Third one is more problematic. Unlike Chechnya or Syria where you could easily justify the open genocide with "fighting jihadees" which is a fair play in the "war on terror", here it would be more difficult and actually might draw the NATO response. Still, I can't exclude this

So my prognosis is: if the fight continues and victory is not achieved Russian ability and willingness to fight will be disappearing quickly. Putin doesn't have a choice but many of his subordinates

Even in case when Russia doesn't technically lose and some source of armistice/agreement is achieved, Ukraine already won. Why? Many describe this conflict as kinetic. Bull****. Human conflicts or interactions are not kinetic. They are mythological and run by myths

[Dalianwanda]

My friend and next door neighbour is doing some unbelievable work in such a short turn around time. I met him last night as he tried to decompress before he goes again, his story is humbling heartwarming and surreal https://fb.watch/bQ22_wjy_u/

[Moulin Yarns]

Article on STV news about the difficulties of getting Ukranians here.




More than 150,000 people had registered their interest in the UK’s Homes for Ukraine scheme ahead of its launch on Friday, but concerns have been raised about how it will work in practice.
The programme aims to match refugees with individuals, charities and other organisations who can provide accommodation for at least six months, enabling Ukrainians without family ties in Britain to enter the country.
But concerns have been aired about red tape, safeguarding and resourcing, with one major charity warning the Government is “unleashing chaos” with the scheme and that refugees could die before they are matched with a sponsor and can safely reach the UK.
Labour said the programme’s “excessive bureaucracy” and “DIY nature” are the greatest barriers to its success, and urged the Government to “cut unnecessary paperwork and play an active role in matching sponsors to refugees”.
More than 150,000 people in Britain had registered their interest by Thursday, and refugees who have found a sponsor can apply from Friday.
Robina Qureshi, director of Positive Action in Housing, claimed the scheme is a “smokescreen” and distraction from what really needs to happen, which she says is the removal of the visa requirement for Ukrainians to come to the UK, as other European countries have done.

She accused the Government of putting charitable organisations in an “invidious” position and foisting the scheme on them without prior consultation, adding that she expects just a “trickle” of refugees to arrive through the scheme because they will have to find people to become sponsors while abroad before they can apply, and then make their own way to the UK.
She told the PA news agency: “Are some of the people going to be alive by the time the process has been gone through?
“They should be letting people in now, but the Government is doing to refugees what they’ve done to the Syrians and to Jewish refugees fleeing the Holocaust, and what they’re doing is to reduce to an absolute minimum the number of refugees making their way to the UK in the midst of the worst refugee crisis since World War Two.”
Positive Action in Housing, which runs Room for Refugees – the UK’s longest running refugee hosting programme which has been in place since 2002 – is receiving around 40 calls and up to 150 emails an hour from Britons who want to offer accommodation to Ukrainian refugees.
Almost 70 Ukrainian refugee families have registered with the charity, including 60 children and several heavily pregnant women currently in Ukraine, France, Poland, Belgium and Germany.
Ms Qureshi questioned how many people who have expressed an interest via the Government’s website will have to withdraw because they later realise they do not have “the physical or mental room”.
She said: “We do not have half a hosting program in place.

“All they’ve got is expressions of interest – they have not identified individuals to match them up… this is an illusion of people helping because they’re distracting from the fact that they haven’t lifted visa restrictions.”
The Refugee Council also voiced concerns about the scheme, with its head of advocacy, Andy Hewett, saying it could be “too slow and complex” to help the most vulnerable, adding that it favours those who already have a contact in the UK, who may not necessarily be the most at risk.
Shadow levelling up and housing secretary, Lisa Nandy, welcomed the scheme’s launch but said there remains a “worrying lack of engagement with local councils and charities”.
She said: “They stand ready to do their job but, unless the government steps up and provides clear guidance, we risk squandering the amazing generosity of people who have offered to open their homes.
“Getting Ukrainian families here quickly is vital so they are secure and there is certainty for those welcoming them. The biggest barriers are excessive bureaucracy and the DIY nature of this scheme. The Government needs to cut unnecessary paperwork and play an active role in matching sponsors to refugees.”

[Dalianwanda]

Article on STV news about the difficulties of getting Ukranians here.

Think the video i shared about touches on that. Through direct response we have already rehomed 18 families in Sligo (about the size of musselburgh) with another load coming shortly. I’ve not even had a response from red cross (not a knock at red cross just highlighting logistical nightmare/red tape they are hampered with)

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60785754

Putin's apparent demands. Ties in with most of the Russian efforts going to Donbass. I think they have gave up on taking Ukraine and now looking at the separatist regions. Should be humiliating defeat but he'll try to frame it as a win

[Stairway 2 7]

A horrifying account of a family escaping Mariupol. Ukranian needs weapons now

https://twitter.com/rshereme/status/1504579756221558792

[Stairway 2 7]

Illia Ponomarenko 🇺🇦
@IAPonomarenko
·

Confirmed: Colonel Sergey Sukharev, Russia’s 331st Airborne Regiment commander, has been eliminated in Ukraine.
He was directly responsible for the Ilovaisk massacre of 2014

[Stairway 2 7]

Mykola Vorobiov
@komitet2012
Funny thing. 🇷🇺troops in Ukraine use outdated maps of 1987. It doesn’t consider “de-communication” applied in 🇺🇦after the Euromaidan in 2013-2014. This means renaming of the Soviet era. After entering Oleshky village 🇷🇺still searched for its old name Tsiyrupinskisk. Same place

[Stairway 2 7]

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
·

Russia's central bank kept its key interest rate at 20% on Friday following an emergency rate hike in late February and warned of an imminent spike in inflation and a looming economic contraction

[Stairway 2 7]

Володимир Зеленський
@ZelenskyyUa

Ukraine government official
·
Had substantial conversation with EC President @vonderleyen.
EC opinion on UA application for #EU membership will be prepared within few months.
UA Government and EC are instructed. Moving to our strategic goal together

[WhileTheChief..]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60785754

Putin's apparent demands. Ties in with most of the Russian efforts going to Donbass. I think they have gave up on taking Ukraine and now looking at the separatist regions. Should be humiliating defeat but he'll try to frame it as a win

Appreciate it's easy for me to say here, and these things are hugely complex, but I really hope Ukraine knocks back every one of his demands.

Any concession now will simply lead to more demands in the future.

Putin only understands strength. If Ukraine can keep doing what its been doing, they won't need to concede anything.

[WhileTheChief..]

A horrifying account of a family escaping Mariupol. Ukranian needs weapons now

https://twitter.com/rshereme/status/1504579756221558792

Horrifying indeed, but everybody should be reading these first-hand accounts.

Man, I wish NATO / UK / USA / Anybody would just go "stuff this, we're going in to help put a stop to this, we'll deal with whatever the consequences are in future".

[Green Reaper]

Am I right in remembering, from the start of this atrocity, that only 3rd of the Donbas regions are separatists who favour Russia? If so and it is given over to Russia then 2/3rds of that region will be totally against it. Hopefully Ukraine stand firm and give them nothing in regards to territory.

[hibsbollah]

Am I right in remembering, from the start of this atrocity, that only 3rd of the Donbas regions are separatists who favour Russia? If so and it is given over to Russia then 2/3rds of that region will be totally against it. Hopefully Ukraine stand firm and give them nothing in regards to territory.

There is a considerable Russian speaking minority in the Donbas, 40% according to wiki, they voted overwhelmingly against Zelensky at recent elections as I posted at the start of this thread. What that means post bombing is up for debate. What everyone would want to avoid is a balkanisation (or Northern Ireland?)of the region…it’s not just as simple as the majority rule, rights of minorities have to be respected in any post war scenario.

[Green Reaper]

There is a considerable Russian speaking minority in the Donbas, 40% according to wiki, they voted overwhelmingly against Zelensky at recent elections as I posted at the start of this thread. What that means post bombing is up for debate. What everyone would want to avoid is a balkanisation (or Northern Ireland?)of the region…it’s not just as simple as the majority rule, rights of minorities have to be respected in any post war scenario.
Thanks for that clarification HB

[WhileTheChief..]

How do you accommodate a minority of your population that wants to be part of another country?

Crimiea is part of Ukraine and should remain so if the Ukrainian gov wants it to.

If people living there would rather live in Russia, what’s stopping them moving? Russia would welcome them with open arms.

If Ukraine bows to what a minority of the populace in these regions wants, what message does that send to the majority?

I hope they stand firm and reject anything Putin has to say.

[Moulin Yarns]

How do you accommodate a minority of your population that wants to be part of another country?

Crimiea is part of Ukraine and should remain so if the Ukrainian gov wants it to.

If people living there would rather live in Russia, what’s stopping them moving? Russia would welcome them with open arms.

If Ukraine bows to what a minority of the populace in these regions wants, what message does that send to the majority?

I hope they stand firm and reject anything Putin has to say.

Maybe have a referendum once the war is over. 🤔😉

[WhileTheChief..]

Why do you try to bring everything back to Indy?

I have zero interest in discussing it with you and it’s got absolutely nothing to do with the topic some of us are trying to discuss here

Please ignore me, or at least stop quoting me. I don’t care for anything you’ve got to say.

[JeMeSouviens]

How do you accommodate a minority of your population that wants to be part of another country?

Crimiea is part of Ukraine and should remain so if the Ukrainian gov wants it to.

If people living there would rather live in Russia, what’s stopping them moving? Russia would welcome them with open arms.

If Ukraine bows to what a minority of the populace in these regions wants, what message does that send to the majority?

I hope they stand firm and reject anything Putin has to say.

For the first question - something like the Good Friday Agreement is a good starting point?

Crimea is a bit different in that it only got put into Ukraine via an internal Soviet re-org in 1954. I don't think there's anything like the same feeling of attachment to the Ukrainian state in Crimea as there is even in the other separatist controlled areas. To all intents and purposes they are living in Russia now and I think it's generally accepted that most of the population are happy with that - https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/03/20/one-year-after-russia-annexed-crimea-locals-prefer-moscow-to-kiev/?sh=982287e510db

The Donbas otoh, considered as a whole (ie. both pro-Russian controlled and Ukrainian controlled), I think it's pretty clear the pro-Russians are in the minority.

[Ozyhibby]

For the first question - something like the Good Friday Agreement is a good starting point?

Crimea is a bit different in that it only got put into Ukraine via an internal Soviet re-org in 1954. I don't think there's anything like the same feeling of attachment to the Ukrainian state in Crimea as there is even in the other separatist controlled areas. To all intents and purposes they are living in Russia now and I think it's generally accepted that most of the population are happy with that - https://www.forbes.com/sites/kenrapoza/2015/03/20/one-year-after-russia-annexed-crimea-locals-prefer-moscow-to-kiev/?sh=982287e510db

The Donbas otoh, considered as a whole (ie. both pro-Russian controlled and Ukrainian controlled), I think it's pretty clear the pro-Russians are in the minority.

In the 1991 referendum in Ukraine, a majority of people in Crimea voted for Ukrainian independence.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220318/4d5c93df8ff37d3fa4299da5663a722b.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

In the 1991 referendum in Ukraine, a majority of people in Crimea voted for Ukrainian independence.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220318/4d5c93df8ff37d3fa4299da5663a722b.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's what I thought, so holding a referendum once the war is over would determine what the people of crimea want their future to be.

Absolutely nothing to do with Scottish independence referendum at all, for anyone who thinks otherwise!

[Ozyhibby]

That's what I thought, so holding a referendum once the war is over would determine what the people of crimea want their future to be.

Absolutely nothing to do with Scottish independence referendum at all, for anyone who thinks otherwise!

Agree, last thing we want is people in Crimea deciding Scotlands future.


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[JeMeSouviens]

In the 1991 referendum in Ukraine, a majority of people in Crimea voted for Ukrainian independence.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220318/4d5c93df8ff37d3fa4299da5663a722b.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I wasn't aware of that. However, turnout in Crimea was only 60% vs c85% in rest of Ukraine, so it's possible some opposed in Crimea didn't bother with it? Also, that's 30 years ago, a lot has changed.

[18Craig75]

This is scarily accurate. From one of Zelenksyy’s senior advisers. Speaking in 2019.

https://twitter.com/visegrad24/status/1504237351941324802?s=21

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Don't think putins giving up crimea any time soon. Massive rally / concert in the Olympic stadium to celebrate 8 years of the reclaiming of it
It's a bit like a Nuremberg rally for the 20th century

[hibsbollah]

Don't think putins giving up crimea any time soon. Massive rally / concert in the Olympic stadium to celebrate 8 years of the reclaiming of it
It's a bit like a Nuremberg rally for the 20th century

Its pure Trump Rally if you want to look modern day. But did you see state TV cutting away from Putin's speech mid broadcast? Weird. Looked less like a technical glitch than something deepfakery...

[Renfrew_Hibby]

Its pure Trump Rally if you want to look modern day. But did you see state TV cutting away from Putin's speech mid broadcast? Weird. Looked less like a technical glitch than something deepfakery...

I'm thinking the first purge of society will be focusing on the media methinks.

[Ozyhibby]

If they partition off Crimea then you are just saving up trouble for later. Although people in Crimea didn’t vote for Zelensky, doesn’t mean they wanted to be part of Russia.


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[JeMeSouviens]

If they partition off Crimea then you are just saving up trouble for later. Although people in Crimea didn’t vote for Zelensky, doesn’t mean they wanted to be part of Russia.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Although not internationally recognised, Crimea has already been partitioned off since 2014. There's no negotiated way Russia gives it back, imo, so you're in war for the long haul if that's your red line.

[Hibrandenburg]

:agree: A Brexit benefit. You can produce a chart of Member States' activities which you think might make the EU look bad without including the UK's activities.How very Farage like.

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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220318/43b1898e5555c3dec05f46f0ba1c9113.jpg

Handy reminder of all the Nestle brands which are helping fund Putin’s war machine.


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[grunt]

The UK's refugee hosting scheme seems to be a bit of a mess so far ...

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/mar/18/questions-mount-amid-eagerness-in-uk-to-help-ukraine-refugees


The refugee hosting scheme launched this week has offered hope that the UK response to the humanitarian crisis may in time improve, but refugee organisations are cautious, uncertain whether to view the initiative as an inspirational drive to harness a burst of popular goodwill towards refugees or as an underwhelming attempt by the government to construct a “big society” approach, outsourcing its duties towards refugees to under-prepared, unsupported members of the public.

[500miles]

I wasn't aware of that. However, turnout in Crimea was only 60% vs c85% in rest of Ukraine, so it's possible some opposed in Crimea didn't bother with it? Also, that's 30 years ago, a lot has changed.

You think Russian aggression has made them more popular?

[Stairway 2 7]

You think Russian aggression has made them more popular?
This is Ukrainian wide but Putin's popularity has plummeted even in Russian speaking areas
25684

[Hibernian Verse]

This was a good thread for keeping up to date with what’s going on in Ukraine till the bickering started. Possibly the longest thread on Hibs.net before it started? 80 odd pages! Haha

[JeMeSouviens]

You think Russian aggression has made them more popular?

No, quite the opposite in all of Ukraine under attack including the Russian speaking areas that are getting some of the worst of the shelling.

But that’s different to Crimea which has de facto been part of Russia for 8 years and will be getting the same Russian propaganda as Russia proper.

[WeeRussell]

Why do you try to bring everything back to Indy?

I have zero interest in discussing it with you and it’s got absolutely nothing to do with the topic some of us are trying to discuss here

Please ignore me, or at least stop quoting me. I don’t care for anything you’ve got to say.

Isn’t he simply and innocently talking about a Ukrainian vote, once things have settled down? I think the word ‘referendum’ may have triggered you in the wrong direction?

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-60800439

Abramovich’s plane grounded.


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[Hibbyradge]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220318/43b1898e5555c3dec05f46f0ba1c9113.jpg

Handy reminder of all the Nestle brands which are helping fund Putin’s war machine.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I've not been following the thread in detail.

Why are Nestle being criticised?

I'm particularly interested because Nestle are an important employer in York, although much less so than they used to be. KitKat is made here. I can't remember what else, tbh.

[Ozyhibby]

I've not been following the thread in detail.

Why are Nestle being criticised?

I'm particularly interested because Nestle are an important employer in York, although much less so than they used to be. KitKat is made here. I can't remember what else, tbh.

They are refusing to withdraw from the Russian market.


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[1875godsgift]

I've not been following the thread in detail.

Why are Nestle being criticised?

I'm particularly interested because Nestle are an important employer in York, although much less so than they used to be. KitKat is made here. I can't remember what else, tbh.

Yorkies? :dunno:

[cabbageandribs1875]

LG Electronics have announced the suspension of all deliveries to Russia



Ivan Katchanovski on Twitter: "Official report of casualties by Kyiv City administration today: Since beginning of #RussianUkrainianWar, 222 people were killed in #Kyiv, including 60 civilians, 4 of whom were children. There were 889 wounded in Kyiv city, including 241 civilians, 18 of them children. #Ukraine" / Twitter (https://twitter.com/I_Katchanovski/status/1504991631338049540) official report of casualties by Kyiv administration today since beginning of War :

222 people were killed, including 66 civilians, 4 of whom were children. 889 wounded in Kyiv city, including 241 civilians, 18 of them children.

[McD]

This was a good thread for keeping up to date with what’s going on in Ukraine till the bickering started. Possibly the longest thread on Hibs.net before it started? 80 odd pages! Haha


Coronavirus thread I would have thought

[CropleyWasGod]

I've not been following the thread in detail.

Why are Nestle being criticised?

I'm particularly interested because Nestle are an important employer in York, although much less so than they used to be. KitKat is made here. I can't remember what else, tbh.

The smell of the baby milk scandal has never really gone away. So they are an easy target when they don't go with the general flow.

[Hibrandenburg]

When this is all over and the people of Russia have turned on Putin and his henchmen, then the international community should only start removing sanctions once he's been handed over to Den Haag.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

When this is all over and the people of Russia have turned on Putin and his henchmen, then the international community should only start removing sanctions once he's been handed over to Den Haag.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

Agree. If the make a deal then lift sanctions immediately then he's learn nothing. I worry all the worldwide companies that are leaving due to pressure, will jump right back to making cash when they can though.

[Bridge hibs]

When this is all over and the people of Russia have turned on Putin and his henchmen, then the international community should only start removing sanctions once he's been handed over to Den Haag.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using TapatalkTherein lies the problem though with regards war crimes and Den Haag, Putin appears to be an absolute control freak who thus far has not shown one single bit of remorse. He is not going to walk up with arms out stretched and say cuff me and I would expect his henchmen to be likeminded. Putin is an evil little ******* and my fear is he would rather go with all guns blazing

I honestly hope to **** Im miles off and this can be resolved with peace talks but I doubt that little ****er is for budging

[Jones28]

Therein lies the problem though with regards war crimes and Den Haag, Putin appears to be an absolute control freak who thus far has not shown one single bit of remorse. He is not going to walk up with arms out stretched and say cuff me and I would expect his henchmen to be likeminded. Putin is an evil little ******* and my fear is he would rather go with all guns blazing

I honestly hope to **** Im miles off and this can be resolved with peace talks but I doubt that little ****er is for budging

Someone will shoot him.

Or he’ll be hung in streets of Moscow.


We can but hope.

[Stairway 2 7]

NEXTA
@nexta_tv
·

#Bellingcat created a map tracking probable war crimes during the war in #Ukraine.

The researchers promise to update the map until the end of the conflict.

https://ukraine.bellingcat.com

[Stairway 2 7]

Both a war crime

NEXTA
@nexta_tv
·

#Russia used thermobaric weapons, also known as vacuum bombs, in #Ukraine, according to the #British Ministry of Defense

Cluster bombs and vacuum bombs have been spotted in Russia before, but #Russian authorities have, of course, denied using them

[Stairway 2 7]

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24

The U.K. has sent more than 4200 NLAW anti-tank missile systems to the Ukrainian Army - NYT

[Stairway 2 7]

Victor Kovalenko
@MrKovalenko
·
The #Ukraine Army claims that they eliminated the fifth in a row Russian General - a commander of the 8th Rus. Army of the South region Lt. Gen. Andrey Mordvichev. He was eliminated in #Chornobaivka township near #Kherson city airport.

[Ozyhibby]

Victor Kovalenko
@MrKovalenko
·
The #Ukraine Army claims that they eliminated the fifth in a row Russian General - a commander of the 8th Rus. Army of the South region Lt. Gen. Andrey Mordvichev. He was eliminated in #Chornobaivka township near #Kherson city airport.

That’s a lot. You don’t often hear about Generals dying in front lines.


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[Stairway 2 7]

That’s a lot. You don’t often hear about Generals dying in front lines.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's unbelievable. Apparently due alot to their communication systems being so old fashioned and getting jammed. They need to literally go to the front and direct like the first word war. Snipers delight

[Moulin Yarns]

Isn’t he simply and innocently talking about a Ukrainian vote, once things have settled down? I think the word ‘referendum’ may have triggered you in the wrong direction?

👍

Thank you. I've no idea what I've done to warrant the tirade from the poster.

[Stairway 2 7]

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24

At the next EU summit, Poland’s Prime Minister Mateusz Morawiecki will propose that the EU imposes a total blockade on trade with Russia both by sea and land - Reuters

[CropleyWasGod]

Are there gulags in space?

BBC News - Russians board International Space Station in Ukrainian colours
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-60804949

[hibsbollah]

Both a war crime

NEXTA
@nexta_tv
·

#Russia used thermobaric weapons, also known as vacuum bombs, in #Ukraine, according to the #British Ministry of Defense

Cluster bombs and vacuum bombs have been spotted in Russia before, but #Russian authorities have, of course, denied using them

I’m sorry if it seems like I’m picking you up on factual inaccuracies because I enjoy it, but the use of thermobaric weapons isn’t itself a war crime, or against international law. The use of all weapons against civilian populations is prohibited under UN, but that applies to conventional weapons in the same way.

Used widely during the Syrian war on innocent civilians by Assad and Putin, to general media silence and political tolerance. (Corbyn raised it in the HoC demanding action against Putin and asking questions about Russian Tory funding, also not much reported).

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/russia-ukraine-war-jeremy-corbyn-right-putin-oligarchs

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-would-prime-minister-corbyn-have-done-about-ukraine-/amp

[Lendo]

I’m sorry if it seems like I’m picking you up on factual inaccuracies because I enjoy it, but the use of thermobaric weapons isn’t itself a war crime, or against international law. The use of all weapons against civilian populations is prohibited under UN, but that applies to conventional weapons in the same way.

Used widely during the Syrian war on innocent civilians by Assad and Putin, to general media silence and political tolerance. (Corbyn raised it in the HoC demanding action against Putin and asking questions about Russian Tory funding, also not much reported).

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/russia-ukraine-war-jeremy-corbyn-right-putin-oligarchs

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-would-prime-minister-corbyn-have-done-about-ukraine-/amp


Is the US’s MOAB weapon not also thermobaric? The largest non-nuclear weapon on earth. Think it was used a few times on ISIS.

[Stairway 2 7]

I’m sorry if it seems like I’m picking you up on factual inaccuracies because I enjoy it, but the use of thermobaric weapons isn’t itself a war crime, or against international law. The use of all weapons against civilian populations is prohibited under UN, but that applies to conventional weapons in the same way.

Used widely during the Syrian war on innocent civilians by Assad and Putin, to general media silence and political tolerance. (Corbyn raised it in the HoC demanding action against Putin and asking questions about Russian Tory funding, also not much reported).

https://www.middleeasteye.net/opinion/russia-ukraine-war-jeremy-corbyn-right-putin-oligarchs

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-would-prime-minister-corbyn-have-done-about-ukraine-/amp

The war crime is they have been used against civilian population deliberately. Bellingcat have sent a number of incidences to the Hague to be looked at. They should have been up in the Hague for the atrocities in Syria but got away with blootering civilians in the name of anti terrorism.

The only other fact you've checked is saying they haven't been at war with Russia since Crimea got annexed. 16,000 dead Ukrainian soldiers at the hands of Russia since then would disagree

[Ozyhibby]

The war crime is they have been used against civilian population deliberately. Bellingcat have sent a number of incidences to the Hague to be looked at. They should have been up in the Hague for the atrocities in Syria but got away with blootering civilians in the name of anti terrorism.

The only other fact you've checked is saying they haven't been at war with Russia since Crimea got annexed. 16,000 dead Ukrainian soldiers at the hands of Russia since then would disagree

Collecting the evidence of war crimes is the easy part. The real trick is getting the perpetrator into custody.


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[Stairway 2 7]

The sad thing about this all is countries including the uk will buy more weapons increase and military budget 😕. What it should show is Russia isn't taking a nation by force, the West can be united in defence. Soldiers cannon fodder more than ever and tanks are useless. A joint eu army with Scotland would be decent .

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
·

European governments have approached USA with a shopping list of arms including drones, missiles and missile defenses as the Russian invasion of Ukraine drives renewed demand for U.S. weaponry.

Thee Pentagon has re-established a team to respond to the increased demand

[Ozyhibby]

The sad thing about this all is countries including the uk will buy more weapons increase and military budget [emoji53]. What it should show is Russia isn't taking a nation by force, the West can be united in defence. Soldiers cannon fodder more than ever and tanks are useless. A joint eu army with Scotland would be decent

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
·
14m
European governments have approached USA with a shopping list of arms including drones, missiles and missile defenses as the Russian invasion of Ukraine drives renewed demand for U.S. weaponry.

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
·

European governments have approached USA with a shopping list of arms including drones, missiles and missile defenses as the Russian invasion of Ukraine drives renewed demand for U.S. weaponry.

Thee Pentagon has re-established a team to respond to the increased demand

True enough on tanks. Johnson got a lot of flack earlier this month when an old video of him saying large tank battle were a thing of the past in Europe. IMHO he was right although maybe not in the way he meant.
When a £20m tank can get taken out by a £20k hand held rocket then I don’t see much future for tanks.
Air defence, drones and strong sea defence is what the UK (or Indy Scotland) needs.


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[Stairway 2 7]

True enough on tanks. Johnson got a lot of flack earlier this month when an old video of him saying large tank battle were a thing of the past in Europe. IMHO he was right although maybe not in the way he meant.
When a £20m tank can get taken out by a £20k hand held rocket then I don’t see much future for tanks.
Air defence, drones and strong sea defence is what the UK (or Indy Scotland) needs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If he was right I'm sure it was a mistake. Totally agree with your post though. Multimillion pound fighter jets will probably go the same. Battles will be done by remote control in the future

[Stairway 2 7]

If you read one piece on the war let it be this. Brilliant from the ft. Cool interactive article, videos and maps pop up as you scroll down. Really well done but informative too

https://ig.ft.com/russias-war-in-ukraine-mapped

[Jim44]

Watching a depressing programme on Channel 4 just now about ‘what if Putin uses nuclear weapons’. The fact this is now being openly discussed suggests it is becoming a huge possibility. One Russian expert says that Putin can and will use Nuclear weapons when he feels it is necessary. The folk on this programme are discussing things which will put the fear of death into any rational thinker. Anyone who believes that Putin can’t and anyway won’t resort to nuclear weapons is in cloud cuckoo land. A guy just now is saying that we should be embarking on mass public education of trying to cope with imminent attack. I’d like to think this programme is just alarmism, but I fear that we really could be heading for global annihilation. Mind you, they’re giving cold comfort saying that it won’t be ‘total’. Who the ‘fck’ would want to survive nuclear attack.

[cabbageandribs1875]

sorry if already reported, 5th Russian General killed

Fifth Russian general killed as ‘planes and helicopters shot down’, Ukraine claims | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/ukraine-fifth-russian-general-killed-b2039617.html)

[Bridge hibs]

Watching a depressing programme on Channel 4 just now about ‘what if Putin uses nuclear weapons’. The fact this is now being openly discussed suggests it is becoming a huge possibility. One Russian expert says that Putin can and will use Nuclear weapons when he feels it is necessary. The folk on this programme are discussing things which will put the fear of death into any rational thinker. Anyone who believes that Putin can’t and anyway won’t resort to nuclear weapons is in cloud cuckoo land. A guy just now is saying that we should be embarking on mass public education of trying to cope with imminent attack. I’d like to think this programme is just alarmism, but I fear that we really could be heading for global annihilation. Mind you, they’re giving cold comfort saying that it won’t be ‘total’. Who the ‘fck’ would want to survive nuclear attack.I couldnt watch it, Im recovering from illness and beside myself with anxiety, Im actually feeling physically sick . I get a lift when I read Stairways posts about peace deals then things change so very quickly, I would rather take myself out than suffer, I cant feel any lower now 😔

[Stairway 2 7]

I couldnt watch it, Im recovering from illness and beside myself with anxiety, Im actually feeling physically sick . I get a lift when I read Stairways posts about peace deals then things change so very quickly, I would rather take myself out than suffer, I cant feel any lower now 😔

There will be a deal now that it's obvious he can't take the country. Some evidence of this is him just about stopping supplies to the Kyiv fight and throwing everything to the Donbas. The arguments now will be how to pose it as both sides winning. It will all come down to what happens in Donbas post war. The Russian demands just now whilst won't be agreed, aren't that bad a starting place.

Get well soon mate ggtth

[Bridge hibs]

There will be a deal now that it's obvious he can't take the country. Some evidence of this is him just about stopping supplies to the Kyiv fight and throwing everything to the Donbas. The arguments now will be how to pose it as both sides winning. It will all come down to what happens in Donbas post war. The Russian demands just now whilst won't be agreed, aren't that bad a starting place.

Get well soon mate ggtthThanks mate, Im normally a positive person but due to being ill my anxiety has come back tenfold and its a difficult cycle to get out of, thats me though, I think those poor residents of Ukraine must be feeling that a hundred times worse

[Jim44]

There will be a deal now that it's obvious he can't take the country. Some evidence of this is him just about stopping supplies to the Kyiv fight and throwing everything to the Donbas. The arguments now will be how to pose it as both sides winning. It will all come down to what happens in Donbas post war. The Russian demands just now whilst won't be agreed, aren't that bad a starting place.

Get well soon mate ggtth

After the destruction and desolation he has imposed on Ukraine, how can there possibly be a deal with a megalomanic murderer and war criminal? If a deal is proffered, Putin will have won and, that being the case, he will continue his assault on NATO and the Western World. Remember that the vast majority of ignorant and hoodwinked Russians are completely behind him, and his unlikely deposition or, more acceptable, assassination is the only hope for world peace. He will never be be satisfied with his ill-gotten theft of former USSR countries and territories and will become an even greater obstacle to world peace for the foreseeable future.

[Stairway 2 7]

After the destruction and desolation he has imposed on Ukraine, how can there possibly be a deal with a megalomanic murderer and war criminal? If a deal is proffered, Putin will have won and, that being the case, he will continue his assault on NATO and the Western World. Remember that the vast majority of ignorant and hoodwinked Russians are completely behind him, and his unlikely deposition or, more acceptable, assassination is the only hope for world peace. He will never be be satisfied with his ill-gotten theft of former USSR countries and territories and will become an even greater obstacle to world peace for the foreseeable future.

Not in a million years does Russia set foot in nato soil. They a tenth of their soldiers in 3 weeks and probably around a fifth of their heavy armour. They couldn't take Ukraine nato would squash Russia with ease. Everyone outside Russia will know its been one of the most humiliating battles of the last 100 years, regardless of any deal

[SaulGoodman]

After the destruction and desolation he has imposed on Ukraine, how can there possibly be a deal with a megalomanic murderer and war criminal? If a deal is proffered, Putin will have won and, that being the case, he will continue his assault on NATO and the Western World. Remember that the vast majority of ignorant and hoodwinked Russians are completely behind him, and his unlikely deposition or, more acceptable, assassination is the only hope for world peace. He will never be be satisfied with his ill-gotten theft of former USSR countries and territories and will become an even greater obstacle to world peace for the foreseeable future.

I know it’s difficult Jim but you really need to stop thinking about the worst case scenario here. It can’t be good for your mental health.

Watching TV programmes about Putin launching nukes and having these scenarios in your head about him invading NATO countries will put your mind in overdrive.

I can’t see any Nukes being launched, just like no Nukes have been used on another country since WWII. The media will love these doomsday predictions as people will click on the headlines.

[Jim44]

I know it’s difficult Jim but you really need to stop thinking about the worst case scenario here. It can’t be good for your mental health.

Watching TV programmes about Putin launching nukes and having these scenarios in your head about him invading NATO countries will put your mind in overdrive.

I can’t see any Nukes being launched, just like no Nukes have been used on another country since WWII. The media will love these doomsday predictions as people will click on the headlines.

Thanks for your concern about my mental health, Saul, and despite it being a wee bit patronising, it’s completely unnecessary. ( no offence intended btw. 🙂 ) I’m in total control of all my faculties and sentiments as I can be in this world catastrophe, and maybe it might be that your mind is as much in ‘underdrive’ as mine is, as suggested, in ‘overdrive’. I think you underestimate the insanity of Putin and the depths of depravity he is capable of. And again, don’t underestimate the control and domination he has over the vast majority of Russians ( Trump doesn’t have a look in, in a US context ) If nuclear weapons are his last resort, he will use them, with the consent or at least acceptance of his nation, in full knowledge of the consequences. By the way, I think your use of historical precedence is a weak argument in this scenario.

[1 8 7 5]

I know it’s difficult Jim but you really need to stop thinking about the worst case scenario here. It can’t be good for your mental health.

Watching TV programmes about Putin launching nukes and having these scenarios in your head about him invading NATO countries will put your mind in overdrive.

I can’t see any Nukes being launched, just like no Nukes have been used on another country since WWII. The media will love these doomsday predictions as people will click on the headlines.

Thats a lovely well written and well intended post mate:agree:

I was just going to tell him he was being a bit hysterical. You did it much better.:aok:

[Stairway 2 7]

Thanks for your concern about my mental health, Saul, and despite it being a wee bit patronising, it’s completely unnecessary. ( no offence intended btw. 🙂 ) I’m in total control of all my faculties and sentiments as I can be in this world catastrophe, and maybe it might be that your mind is as much in ‘underdrive’ as mine is, as suggested, in ‘overdrive’. I think you underestimate the insanity of Putin and the depths of depravity he is capable of. And again, don’t underestimate the control and domination he has over the vast majority of Russians ( Trump doesn’t have a look in, in a US context ) If nuclear weapons are his last resort, he will use them, with the consent or at least acceptance of his nation, in full knowledge of the consequences. By the way, I think your use of historical precedence is a weak argument in this scenario.

So your speaking for the Russians when you say they will accept nuclear war, righto

As we've talked about on this thread before, you need about 100 people to set of a nuke. One of them would say no I don't fancy ending all our nationals lives. Just like Stanislav Petrov did when he said no to his commander in 1983.

Although that's miles away both sides have said a deal is likely

[SaulGoodman]

Thanks for your concern about my mental health, Saul, and despite it being a wee bit patronising, it’s completely unnecessary. ( no offence intended btw. 🙂 ) I’m in total control of all my faculties and sentiments as I can be in this world catastrophe, and maybe it might be that your mind is as much in ‘underdrive’ as mine is, as suggested, in ‘overdrive’. I think you underestimate the insanity of Putin and the depths of depravity he is capable of. And again, don’t underestimate the control and domination he has over the vast majority of Russians ( Trump doesn’t have a look in, in a US context ) If nuclear weapons are his last resort, he will use them, with the consent or at least acceptance of his nation, in full knowledge of the consequences. By the way, I think your use of historical precedence is a weak argument in this scenario.

Apologies, I wasn’t trying to sound patronising. I was genuinely concerned from reading your posts in this thread that you were seriously worried about things (naturally).

My mind maybe is in “under drive” but I prefer to keep it that way, I try not to worry about a nuke landing in the back garden the same way I don’t worry about the fact I could die from hundreds of other reasons any second. It’s not healthy.

[Ozyhibby]

So your speaking for the Russians when you say they will accept nuclear war, righto

As we've talked about on this thread before, you need about 100 people to set of a nuke. One of them would say no I don't fancy ending all our nationals lives. Just like Stanislav Petrov did when he said no to his commander in 1983.

Although that's miles away both sides have said a deal is likely

There will be a deal. Putin knows they won’t take Kyiv now which is why they are no longer focusing on it now. They are trying to consolidate in the south so they have something to trade away.


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[WhileTheChief..]

So your speaking for the Russians when you say they will accept nuclear war, righto

As we've talked about on this thread before, you need about 100 people to set of a nuke. One of them would say no I don't fancy ending all our nationals lives. Just like Stanislav Petrov did when he said no to his commander in 1983.

Although that's miles away both sides have said a deal is likely

There was a thing on the news saying that there is a long chain of command for their home based missiles but that Putin has a direct line to their submarines.

Even still, it doesn't worry me in the slightest, never going to happen.

Their 'strength' is all bluff and blunder and is already being exposed.

[Stairway 2 7]

There was a thing on the news saying that there is a long chain of command for their home based missiles but that Putin has a direct line to their submarines.

Even still, it doesn't worry me in the slightest, never going to happen.

Their 'strength' is all bluff and blunder and is already being exposed.

It's cat and mouse with submarines. If they know where they are the missle will get shot down as soon as its out the water. Its whether they know where they are, I know they have the submarines hunter planes out now. They have had warning so I'm sure any shot from Russia won't make it to land.

But aye as you say it's no happening anyway

[Lendo]

It's cat and mouse with submarines. If they know where they are the missle will get shot down as soon as its out the water. Its whether they know where they are, I know they have the submarines hunter planes out now. They have had warning so I'm sure any shot from Russia won't make it to land.

But aye as you say it's no happening anyway

Interesting thing I read about the the Russians rules of engagement with the smaller tactical nuclear weapons was that it was at the discretion of the commander on the ground. At least that was the case in 1962 during the Cuban missile crises. They had authority to release them should the US have invaded Cuba.

[WhileTheChief..]

Does the West know if Russia has maintained / upgraded their nuclear capability?

They've not spent any money on their regular forces by the looks of it, certainly not in modern equipment. Is it likely they have spent the necessary money on their nukes?

I kind of picture them being mothballed, ignored almost. A scary prospect.

[ekhibee]

Watching a depressing programme on Channel 4 just now about ‘what if Putin uses nuclear weapons’. The fact this is now being openly discussed suggests it is becoming a huge possibility. One Russian expert says that Putin can and will use Nuclear weapons when he feels it is necessary. The folk on this programme are discussing things which will put the fear of death into any rational thinker. Anyone who believes that Putin can’t and anyway won’t resort to nuclear weapons is in cloud cuckoo land. A guy just now is saying that we should be embarking on mass public education of trying to cope with imminent attack. I’d like to think this programme is just alarmism, but I fear that we really could be heading for global annihilation. Mind you, they’re giving cold comfort saying that it won’t be ‘total’. Who the ‘fck’ would want to survive nuclear attack.

He will be shot before that happens. Russia can't afford a nuclear war any more than the West.

[Ozyhibby]

https://home.treasury.gov/about/offices/terrorism-and-financial-intelligence/terrorist-financing-and-financial-crimes/kleptocracy-asset-recovery-rewards-program

UK govt should be doing this but won’t.


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[WhileTheChief..]

https://home.treasury.gov/about/offices/terrorism-and-financial-intelligence/terrorist-financing-and-financial-crimes/kleptocracy-asset-recovery-rewards-program

UK govt should be doing this but won’t.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Is this your opinion on something or a fact? :greengrin

[Aldo]

Club and Dnipro Kids mentioned again during the live interview on ITV!


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1505473701315284993

Christo Grozev
@christogrozev
·

An overwhelming percentage of Ukrainians believe Russia will be defeated, and do not support a ceasefire unless Russia fully retreats from Ukraine

NEXTA
@nexta_tv
·

93% of #Ukrainian citizens surveyed by the sociological group "Rating" believe that #Ukraine will be able to repel an attack by #Russia.

[Stairway 2 7]

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
·

Australia has banned exports of aluminium ores to Russia over its invasion of Ukraine.

The new expanded sanctions package will limit Russia’s ability to produce aluminium which is critical to arms and munitions manufacturing.

20% of Russia’s aluminium ores come from AU

[Stairway 2 7]

Guy Elster
@guyelster
·

#BREAKING Zelenskiy's office #Ukraine army it sees a high risk of an attack from Belarus on western Volyn region

[degenerated]

Guy Elster
@guyelster
·

#BREAKING Zelenskiy's office #Ukraine army it sees a high risk of an attack from Belarus on western Volyn regionThat would finish Lukashenko, public support for this is about 3%, I read, and the army are mainly conscripts with no appetite for war in Ukraine.
I would guess that the if this happens then there will likely be a revolt in Belarus.

[Stairway 2 7]

Robin Brooks
@RobinBrooksIIF
·
Russia's financial conditions are easing and the bite of our sanctions is fading, because Russia's energy exports are constantly generating hard currency inflows, so - even though we blocked FX reserves - Russia is generating new ones. A Russian energy boycott would stop this.

Paul Mainwood
@PaulMainwood
·

Still angry about the sheer quantity of performative, self-congratulatory, useless sanctions bull**** from European nations.
While paying €16b for oil, gas and coal since February 24th.

[Stairway 2 7]

That would finish Lukashenko, public support for this is about 3%, I read, and the army are mainly conscripts with no appetite for war in Ukraine.
I would guess that the if this happens then there will likely be a revolt in Belarus.

Belarusian railway workers destroyed all the signal boxes going south to Ukraine yesterday. Lots of talk the army aren't happy with the thought of going to Ukraine, lukashenko is wanting to please his boss though

[Hibrandenburg]

Robin Brooks
@RobinBrooksIIF
·
Russia's financial conditions are easing and the bite of our sanctions is fading, because Russia's energy exports are constantly generating hard currency inflows, so - even though we blocked FX reserves - Russia is generating new ones. A Russian energy boycott would stop this.

Paul Mainwood
@PaulMainwood
·

Still angry about the sheer quantity of performative, self-congratulatory, useless sanctions bull**** from European nations.
While paying €16b for oil, gas and coal since February 24th.European nations self-destructing their own economies would be Putin's wildest wet dream.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

European nations self-destructing their own economies would be Putin's wildest wet dream.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

European countries would take a short term hit but Russia would collapse in weeks, its literally funding his war. A small price to pay for Ukrainian blood. Countries who get higher % of their gas from Ukraine (Lithuania, Poland and Latvia) all want to end Russian gas sales. They worry they could be next I suppose.

[Stairway 2 7]

Bellingcat
@bellingcat
·
Bellingcat has been logging incidents that appear to depict civilian impact or harm since the beginning of the conflict in Ukraine.

We have now visualised this data in a TimeMap feature that allows users to explore what we have found 👇 https://bellingcat.com/news/2022/03/17/hospitals-bombed-and-apartments-destroyed-mapping-incidents-of-civilian-harm-in-ukraine/

[Hibrandenburg]

European countries would take a short term hit but Russia would collapse in weeks, its literally funding his war. A small price to pay for Ukrainian blood. Countries who get higher % of their gas from Ukraine (Lithuania, Poland and Latvia) all want to end Russian gas sales. They worry they could be next I suppose.Nobody can guarantee that.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220320/d84d5b39b0dd21988e0f72a3bdd373ef.jpg
More good news.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

European countries would take a short term hit but Russia would collapse in weeks.

Again with this supreme confidence about likely outcome. There are far too many intangibles and things we haven’t measured, (particularly the reaction of the Russian population, exposed to years of propaganda, to sanctions and financial hardship imposed by The West) to be sure that Russia would collapse within ‘weeks’.

[Stairway 2 7]

Again with this supreme confidence about likely outcome. There are far too many intangibles and things we haven’t measured, (particularly the reaction of the Russian population, exposed to years of propaganda, to sanctions and financial hardship imposed by The West) to be sure that Russia would collapse within ‘weeks’.

Imf estimate their economy will contract 35% this year and 30% of all employed people will lose there jobs, even if there is a deal with Ukrainian. No country has ever experienced sanctions remotely like this.

70% of Russia’s export income is gas and oil. They won't be able to sell it anytime soon elsewhere. Stop there only real source of western income left and it doesn't take a genius to see they are screwed.

[Stairway 2 7]

Bellingcat Retweeted
@EliotHiggins
·

Russia has drones and satellite imagery, so when they claim there's a Nazi Cobra Command Centre under a nursery that just exploded they should be in a position to produce visual evidence, and we can keep calling them out for the pathological liars they are until they produce it.

[Stairway 2 7]

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
Interesting opinion poll from March 18.

96% of Ukrainians say 🇵🇱 is a friendly country

The next places on the list are taken by 🇱🇹🇬🇧🇺🇸🇨🇿

Support for a military-political alliance between 🇺🇦🇵🇱🇬🇧 grew from 61% in Sep. to 85% & is now higher than support for NATO membership (72%)

25689

Russia universally disliked

[hibsbollah]

Imf estimate their economy will contract 35% this year and 30% of all employed people will lose there jobs, even if there is a deal with Ukrainian. No country has ever experienced sanctions remotely like this.

70% of Russia’s export income is gas and oil. They won't be able to sell it anytime soon elsewhere. Stop there only real source of western income left and it doesn't take a genius to see they are screwed.

Firstly, there hasn’t been sanctions regime like this before is precisely why predicting what will happen is foolish.
Secondly, human needs are actually quite basic. Food, heat, water, shelter, law and order. If the Russian people can be persuaded to cut their cloth, and suck up the absence of McDonalds and Apple for a few months, there’s no reason to suppose what you are suggesting.
Thirdly, China are still in the room.

[Stairway 2 7]

Firstly, there hasn’t been sanctions regime like this before is precisely why predicting what will happen is foolish.
Secondly, human needs are actually quite basic. Food, heat, water, shelter, law and order. If the Russian people can be persuaded to cut their cloth, and suck up the absence of McDonalds and Apple for a few months, there’s no reason to suppose what you are suggesting.
Thirdly, China are still in the room.

What. I'm not saying the people are all going to die but the war will be over, the point of this thread. You can't run a war with no money. They can barely run it now logistics are brutal, weapons are old, soldiers are hungry

[Moulin Yarns]

How do you accommodate a minority of your population that wants to be part of another country?

Crimiea is part of Ukraine and should remain so if the Ukrainian gov wants it to.

If people living there would rather live in Russia, what’s stopping them moving? Russia would welcome them with open arms.

If Ukraine bows to what a minority of the populace in these regions wants, what message does that send to the majority?

I hope they stand firm and reject anything Putin has to say.

I'm revisiting this.

Crimea was annexed by Russia in 2014 so is currently not part of Ukraine.

Have you evidence that the Russian speaking populace of Crimea are a minority? Do they want to be part of Russia? I don't know!

A quick look at Wiki suggests 68% of Crimea are russian!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea

Donbas is 57% Ukranian to 38% Russian according to wiki.

I don't think the suggestion that "people living there would rather live in Russia, what's stopping them moving? is even a reasonable suggestion. In all walks of life you generaly live close to where you work (Obviously this has changed in the light of 'working from home' in the last couple of years).

As others have pointed out since you posted, referenda were held on the future governance of Crimea, which Russia ignored. My suggestion, which you decided to dismiss for reasons only you understand, that once peace has settled over Ukraine there is a referendum in Crimea and Donbas to decide who governs the regions. Of course there would have to be legal agreements on the validity of the results regardless of whether Ukraine or Russia are the chosen nation. I certainly don't think such a huge decision should be left to a government because there would still be unrest among the losing side.

Hope you can understand why I replied with more details as to why I think a referendum is a more satisfactory solution than a government makingan unpopular decision.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm revisiting this.

Crimea was annexed by Russia in 2014 so is currently not part of Ukraine.

Have you evidence that the Russian speaking populace of Crimea are a minority? Do they want to be part of Russia? I don't know!

A quick look at Wiki suggests 68% of Crimea are russian!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea

Donbas is 57% Ukranian to 38% Russian according to wiki.

I don't think the suggestion that "people living there would rather live in Russia, what's stopping them moving? is even a reasonable suggestion. In all walks of life you generaly live close to where you work (Obviously this has changed in the light of 'working from home' in the last couple of years).

As others have pointed out since you posted, referenda were held on the future governance of Crimea, which Russia ignored. My suggestion, which you decided to dismiss for reasons only you understand, that once peace has settled over Ukraine there is a referendum in Crimea and Donbas to decide who governs the regions. Of course there would have to be legal agreements on the validity of the results regardless of whether Ukraine or Russia are the chosen nation. I certainly don't think such a huge decision should be left to a government because there would still be unrest among the losing side.

Hope you can understand why I replied with more details as to why I think a referendum is a more satisfactory solution than a government makingan unpopular decision.

They aren't Russians they are ethnic Russian. Kherson and Kharkiv are Russian speaking with a big percentage of ethnic Russians. But both have been flattened polls say vast majority in both cities including ethnic Russian, are now pro Ukraine. Its going to be complicated going forward, but obviously if any region wanted to be in either country, they should if a fair election can be had

[Moulin Yarns]

They aren't Russians they are ethnic Russian. Kherson and Kharkiv are Russian speaking with a big percentage of ethnic Russians. But both have been flattened polls say vast majority in both cities including ethnic Russian, are now pro Ukraine. Its going to be complicated going forward, but obviously if any region wanted to be in either country, they should if a fair election can be had

Agreed. Certainly the Ukraine (or Russian) governments sholdn't be the ones to decide the future of disputed regions, which was my point.

[hibsbollah]

But both have been flattened polls say vast majority in both cities including ethnic Russian, are now pro Ukraine. Its going to be complicated going forward

I used to do polling work. It is incomprehensible that you could carry out accurate polling in the conditions in Eastern Ukraine now during wartime to get those, or any results. What polls? Using what methodology? In general I’d always like to see sources.

I think you could GUESS that they would be more pro Ukraine than before the invasion. But as discussed they voted overwhelmingly against Zelensky before, and might even get their news from Russia :dunno:

[hibsbollah]

What. I'm not saying the people are all going to die but the war will be over, the point of this thread. You can't run a war with no money. They can barely run it now logistics are brutal, weapons are old, soldiers are hungry

You said ‘Russia will collapse within weeks’. I’m saying that’s not by any means certain.

[hibsbollah]

A good listen here on the Wagner group of mercenaries. Probably responsible for some of the worst atrocities.

https://open.spotify.com/episode/6wWIM42uggD7b8GRYZ8d06?si=H6IlbOaVT8iPzlboyTiXKQ

[Stairway 2 7]

You said ‘Russia will collapse within weeks’. I’m saying that’s not by any means certain.

They would most independent estimates say they have a few months of fighting with oil, without they have no chance. They are digging in defensive trenches already and have stopped in Kyiv. It looks like they are just looking for Donbas now as they are getting decimated

[Stairway 2 7]

I used to do polling work. It is incomprehensible that you could carry out accurate polling in the conditions in Eastern Ukraine now during wartime to get those, or any results. What polls? Using what methodology? In general I’d always like to see sources.

I think you could GUESS that they would be more pro Ukraine than before the invasion. But as discussed they voted overwhelmingly against Zelensky before, and might even get their news from Russia :dunno:

This is in Ukranian and the whole of Ukranian. But a disapproval rating of 95% for Russia, no idea how they took the poll. There's loads of others but I've also no idea how the polls were conducted. But I think it's easy to estimate if Russia has flattened your house murdered people you know, there would be a large drop in popularity

[Ozyhibby]

I'm revisiting this.

Crimea was annexed by Russia in 2014 so is currently not part of Ukraine.

Have you evidence that the Russian speaking populace of Crimea are a minority? Do they want to be part of Russia? I don't know!

A quick look at Wiki suggests 68% of Crimea are russian!!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Crimea

Donbas is 57% Ukranian to 38% Russian according to wiki.

I don't think the suggestion that "people living there would rather live in Russia, what's stopping them moving? is even a reasonable suggestion. In all walks of life you generaly live close to where you work (Obviously this has changed in the light of 'working from home' in the last couple of years).

As others have pointed out since you posted, referenda were held on the future governance of Crimea, which Russia ignored. My suggestion, which you decided to dismiss for reasons only you understand, that once peace has settled over Ukraine there is a referendum in Crimea and Donbas to decide who governs the regions. Of course there would have to be legal agreements on the validity of the results regardless of whether Ukraine or Russia are the chosen nation. I certainly don't think such a huge decision should be left to a government because there would still be unrest among the losing side.

Hope you can understand why I replied with more details as to why I think a referendum is a more satisfactory solution than a government makingan unpopular decision.

The people of Crimea voted to be independent of Russia in 1991. There is no way you can have a free and fair referendum in the current circumstances. And partitioning part of a sovereign state is very different from the situation in Scotland anyway.


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[Hibrandenburg]

You said ‘Russia will collapse within weeks’. I’m saying that’s not by any means certain.Iraq had heavy sanctions imposed for well over a decade including a total ban on imports and exports. One of the lasting legacies of those sanctions was that Iraq became more self-sufficient, especially in agriculture where they improved their yields by over 25%. It's optimistic to think that sanctions will bring Russia to its knees within weeks.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

Iraq had heavy sanctions imposed for well over a decade including a total ban on imports and exports. One of the lasting legacies of those sanctions was that Iraq became more self-sufficient, especially in agriculture where they improved their yields by over 25%. It's optimistic to think that sanctions will bring Russia to its knees within weeks.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

Iraq is not Russia though. Russia is far more plugged into globalisation than Iraq ever could be. The change that is about to happen to their economy is the biggest that has ever happened in history.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibrandenburg]

Iraq is not Russia though. Russia is far more plugged into globalisation than Iraq ever could be. The change that is about to happen to their economy is the biggest that has ever happened in history.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkBut the results of sanctions by no means guarantee Putin's downfall within weeks. For all we know it may weld the Russian population's resolve to back their leader in what they see as western aggression. A kind of national Stockholm Syndrome if you like.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

[WhileTheChief..]

A few thoughts on what is happening with the Russian economy...

https://www.themoscowtimes.com/2022/03/18/russian-economy-facing-massive-structural-challenges-central-bank-says-a76992

https://www.wsj.com/articles/russias-push-for-self-sufficient-economy-fails-before-western-sanctions-11647777600

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/03/14/putins-invasion-of-ukraine-will-knock-the-russian-economy-back-by-30-years.html

Sanctions work.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Slovakia starts deploying patriot air defence system Slovakia starts deploying Patriot air defence system - minister (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/slovakia-starts-deploying-patriot-air-defence-system-minister/ar-AAVhNVb?ocid=msedgntp)

https://www.hibs.net/image/png;base64,iVBORw0KGgoAAAANSUhEUgAAAAEAAAABCAQAAAC 1HAwCAAAAC0lEQVR42mNkYAAAAAYAAjCB0C8AAAAASUVORK5CY II=PRAGUE (Reuters) - The Patriot air defence system has started arriving in Slovakia from NATO partner countries and the deployment will continue in the coming days, Slovakia's defence minister said on Sunday.

The system will be operated by German and Dutch troops and will initially be deployed at the Sliac airport in central Slovakia to help reinforce the defence of NATO's eastern flank.
Russia's invasion of Ukraine has prompted the alliance to bolster its defences.
The Patriot system will be part of a new NATO battlegroup in Slovakia, which neighbours Ukraine


i didn't realise the size of these things

[Stairway 2 7]

Iraq had heavy sanctions imposed for well over a decade including a total ban on imports and exports. One of the lasting legacies of those sanctions was that Iraq became more self-sufficient, especially in agriculture where they improved their yields by over 25%. It's optimistic to think that sanctions will bring Russia to its knees within weeks.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

No one is saying Russia as an entity will stop being or even Putin, the country will be here for hundreds of years. But the war the point of this thread is hanging by a thread. Some analysts have said Russia has to do what they want to do by May as they will collapse by then. Sanctions stop them resuppling.

[hibsbollah]

The people of Crimea voted to be independent of Russia in 1991. There is no way you can have a free and fair referendum in the current circumstances. And partitioning part of a sovereign state is very different from the situation in Scotland anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Was it a ‘once in a generation’ referendum though? :stirrer:

[Hibrandenburg]

No one is saying Russia as an entity will stop being or even Putin, the country will be here for hundreds of years. But the war the point of this thread is hanging by a thread. Some analysts have said Russia has to do what they want to do by May as they will collapse by then. Sanctions stop them resuppling.The removal of Putin has to be the aim of sanctions. With Putin at the helm in the Kremlin this current crisis won't end. There's no way that normal relationships can be resumed with Russia until he's gone and even then it will be difficult.

Sanctions need to be aimed at damaging Putin and not vice versa, damaging our own economies will only widen the crisis by destabilising our own societies and that's playing into Putin's hands. We have to plan for the long game because you can bet your house that Putin has.

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[Ozyhibby]

The removal of Putin has to be the aim of sanctions. With Putin at the helm in the Kremlin this current crisis won't end. There's no way that normal relationships can be resumed with Russia until he's gone and even then it will be difficult.

Sanctions need to be aimed at damaging Putin and not vice versa, damaging our own economies will only widen the crisis by destabilising our own societies and that's playing into Putin's hands. We have to plan for the long game because you can bet your house that Putin has.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

I think people attribute too much intelligence and cunning to Putin. If he was that smart he would not have invaded Ukraine last month. That is looking like a catastrophic error already to the point where they could actually lose militarily.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibrandenburg]

I think people attribute too much intelligence and cunning to Putin. If he was that smart he would not have invaded Ukraine last month. That is looking like a catastrophic error already to the point where they could actually lose militarily.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHe's certainly no Rommel but he will have expected sanctions and have contingency plans. How effective they are remains to be seen.

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Putin expected a 5 day war, found plans all say it and the armies supplies also. He will be fuming at how this has panned out. They saw what happened in Crimea and expected the same, but Ukraine was ready and a different animal to 2014.

If there is a 30% drop in employment, gdp going down 35% and almost every western country severing ties, the sanctions are obviously working well

[Stairway 2 7]

Pope Francis
@Ponti***
·
Let us be close to this martyred people, let us embrace them with affection with concrete commitment and prayer. And please let us not get used to war and violence, let us not tire of welcoming them with generosity, not only now, but also in the weeks and months to come. #Ukraine

[Kato]

Putin expected a 5 day war, found plans all say it and the armies supplies also. He will be fuming at how this has panned out. They saw what happened in Crimea and expected the same, but Ukraine was ready and a different animal to 2014.

If there is a 30% drop in employment, gdp going down 35% and almost every western country severing ties, the sanctions are obviously working wellHis people lied to him as to how effective his forces would be. Same thing with any "strong leader", people are scared to tell him the truth so fluff his ego.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

Pope Francis
@Ponti***
·
Let us be close to this martyred people, let us embrace them with affection with concrete commitment and prayer. And please let us not get used to war and violence, let us not tire of welcoming them with generosity, not only now, but also in the weeks and months to come. #Ukraine

😂😂😂


I had to look him up to see why it failed the swear filter!!!!

[Stairway 2 7]

max seddon
@maxseddon
·
Turkey says Russia and Ukraine “have almost reached agreement” on:
– a neutral Ukraine with no plans for Nato
– “demilitarising” Ukraine and security guarantees
– “denazification” (whatever that is)
– lifting restrictions on the use of Russian in Ukraine

[Stairway 2 7]

Visegrád 24
@visegrad24
·

Bulgaria will not renew a long-term natural gas supply contract with Russia that runs out this year.

Deputy PM Assen Vassilev said on Saturday that the country will instead import Azeri gas through the TANAP pipeline and its IGB offshoot from Greece, which is almost completed

[stu in nottingham]

max seddon
@maxseddon
·
Turkey says Russia and Ukraine “have almost reached agreement” on:
– a neutral Ukraine with no plans for Nato
– “demilitarising” Ukraine and security guarantees
– “denazification” (whatever that is)
– lifting restrictions on the use of Russian in Ukraine

I find it difficult to believe that Ukraine would agree to that. If they did I feel like it would be a big mistake.

[Stairway 2 7]

Not Ukraine but

Guy Elster
@guyelster
·

#BREAKING #China has fully militarized at least three of several islands it built in South China Sea, arming them with anti-ship and anti-aircraft missile systems, laser and jamming equipment and fighter jets

[Stairway 2 7]

max seddon
@maxseddon
·

Zelensky: “I requested them personally to say directly that we are going to accept you into NATO in a year or two or five, or just say no. And the response was very clear, you're not going to be a NATO member, but publicly, the doors will remain open

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/ukraine-orphans-evacuated-scottish-football-fans-charity-dnipro-kids-travel-uk

👍 Sir StevieC and the rest of charity

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/christogrozev/status/1505554090000068611

Christo Grozev
@christogrozev
Very good reconstruction on Russia's intentional attack on Mariapul's children's hospital and subsequent lies, from
@CNN

[lapsedhibee]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/20/ukraine-orphans-evacuated-scottish-football-fans-charity-dnipro-kids-travel-uk

👍 Sir StevieC and the rest of charity

That or put him in the House of Lords :agree:

[degenerated]

Kviv independent reporting Ukrainian military intelligence aware of plot to remove Putin, hopefully true.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1505518177932955649?t=ogwephVeIbtcmTeHl3lX7g&s=19

[Stairway 2 7]

Kviv independent reporting Ukrainian military intelligence aware of plot to remove Putin, hopefully true.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1505518177932955649?t=ogwephVeIbtcmTeHl3lX7g&s=19

Would be braw. The middle class won't be happy, no European holidays or western goods

[degenerated]

Would be braw. The middle class won't be happy, no European holidays or western goodsIts the Adidas tracksuits that will swing it. :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

Michael Kofman
@KofmanMichael
Thoughts on the current state of the war and where things might be heading. About 2 weeks ago I suggested that Russian forces have ~3 weeks before combat effectiveness becomes increasingly exhausted. I think that's generally been right, but we're not quite there yet. Thread

The war has broken down into what could imperfectly be called three fronts, and Russian advances have stalled out along two of them. Around Kyiv RU forces are trying to consolidate positions, but I don't think they can make an assault on the city. Kyiv is far from encircled

In the southwest there was a fitful advance around Mykolaiv towards Odesa that had little chance of success given the paucity of forces employed. This has been set back by a UKR counter offensive. I expect little progress there for either side and more of a shifting front

This means we're not going to see an amphibious landing at Odesa, or a Russian march to Transnistria, anytime soon (if ever). At least not in this phase of the war. However, Russian advances towards Kryvyi Rih do threaten UKR lines of communications west of the river

The area to watch in the coming week is the Russian attempt to encircle UKR forces in the JFO. A slowly progressing pincer movement from the north and south

Since inception the Russian military effort has lacked focus. Too few forces, on too many axes of advance, some competing with each other. I think in the next two weeks they are likely to concentrate on UKR forces in the east and the battle for Mariupol

I suspect unrealistic political aims & timetables have driven an unsound mil strategy. Kyiv, Odesa, Donbas, etc. There's a desperation to show progress. Increasingly it looks as though the Russian mil is focusing on the Donbas, and maintaining along other fronts

Depreciating combat effectiveness sets the stage for either a significant operational pause along most fronts or a ceasefire. This does not necessarily imply a political settlement, but a period to reorganize, consolidate, and resupply. An end to the first chapter of this war

I think Moscow is searching for something it can use to declare a victory. Taking the Donbas, and having leverage to attain concessions from Kyiv is probably what they're looking to accomplish at this point. This is at best a guess

Much depends on what Putin knows and thinks about the course of the war, and whether he feels pressured at home. Our impression of the war & reality on the ground might be quite different from his. Its not clear he understands what the prospects for Russian success are

Naturally there is uncertainty about the state of Russian armed forces along different parts of the battlefield, its bound to be uneven, and we know even less about the state of Ukrainian forces

The next chapter in this war could prove even uglier as it will likely turn into a war of attrition, with greater bombardment of civilian areas. Here I am more concerned about the future evolution of this conflict, despite the remarkably poor Russian performance thus far

Generally, I don't see how any military success can add up to something that constitutes a political victory for Moscow. If there is another phase, Russian forces will probably try to compensate for poor performance by inflicting greater destruction

Worth noting, the Russian military is interpreting 'demilitarization' quite literally as a secondary goal in this conflict, going after Ukraine's defense industry and key military infrastructure. It seems they want to substantially degrade Ukraine's military potential

Has the war entered a stalemate? Yes and no. Russian forces may make slow, incremental advances in the Donbas. I suspect UKR military can hold on most fronts and perhaps even counter attack on others. However, attrition is undoubtedly taking its toll on both sides

In general I've tried to be cautious in rendering predictions because I think we don't know if this point in the conflict is near the beginning, the middle, or the end of the war. Few things are as contingent and indeterminate. End

[Since90+2]

Kviv independent reporting Ukrainian military intelligence aware of plot to remove Putin, hopefully true.

https://twitter.com/KyivIndependent/status/1505518177932955649?t=ogwephVeIbtcmTeHl3lX7g&s=19

If that even is true, which I have my doubts about, why on earth would the Ukrainian intelligence make it public? Surely that's going to make it even more difficult to carry out.

[McD]

If that even is true, which I have my doubts about, why on earth would the Ukrainian intelligence make it public? Surely that's going to make it even more difficult to carry out.


exctly what I was thinking, why publicise it? :dunno:

[degenerated]

If that even is true, which I have my doubts about, why on earth would the Ukrainian intelligence make it public? Surely that's going to make it even more difficult to carry out.Or is it to sow division.

[Hibrandenburg]

A decent read on the possible psychology behind Putin's madness from Der Spiegel if you can ge arsed running it through a translation app.




https://www.spiegel.de/wissenschaft/mensch/ukraine-wladimirs-putins-krieg-mit-einer-50-jahre-alten-psychologischen-theorie-erklaert-a-2098f9cb-6c92-4959-b072-5955ddfda749?sara_ecid=soci_upd_wbMbjhOSvViISjc8RP U89NcCvtlFcJ

Sent from my SM-A505FN using Tapatalk

[Kato]

Or is it to sow division.Might not be happening at all. Just an attempt to put the gas fitters up Putin.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[degenerated]

Might not be happening at all. Just an attempt to put the gas fitters up Putin.

Sent from my SM-A528B using TapatalkHe'll be ordering a bigger table as we speak :hilarious

[Kato]

He'll be ordering a bigger table as we speak :hilariousHehe

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[stu in nottingham]

If that even is true, which I have my doubts about, why on earth would the Ukrainian intelligence make it public? Surely that's going to make it even more difficult to carry out.

I think it could undermine Putin's apparent authority. Perhaps more importantly, it might embolden others, including the public to revolt.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

But the results of sanctions by no means guarantee Putin's downfall within weeks. For all we know it may weld the Russian population's resolve to back their leader in what they see as western aggression. A kind of national Stockholm Syndrome if you like.

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With youtube not blocked yet in Russia I have been able to still follow and keep in touch with a couple of vloggers.
While clearly (though not vocally anti war/putin) they view the closed Starbucks or clothes shops with a shrug of the shoulders attitude.
As if 'well you've abandoned us but the reality is we never really needed you' It's an instinctive feeling to rally round indigenous shops or products.
How it plays out in the long run when unemployment goes through the roof or even the local coffee shop chain can't get coffee beans will be interesting but right now even the most ardent shopaholics in downtown Moscow don't seem too bothered.

[Hibrandenburg]

With youtube not blocked yet in Russia I have been able to still follow and keep in touch with a couple of vloggers.
While clearly (though not vocally anti war/putin) they view the closed Starbucks or clothes shops with a shrug of the shoulders attitude.
As if 'well you've abandoned us but the reality is we never really needed you' It's an instinctive feeling to rally round indigenous shops or products.
How it plays out in the long run when unemployment goes through the roof or even the local coffee shop chain can't get coffee beans will be interesting but right now even the most ardent shopaholics in downtown Moscow don't seem too bothered.That's a worry. If a "Blitz" type mentality evolves in Russia, then whoever follows Putin will also have to be an anti-west hardliner.

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[Stairway 2 7]

With youtube not blocked yet in Russia I have been able to still follow and keep in touch with a couple of vloggers.
While clearly (though not vocally anti war/putin) they view the closed Starbucks or clothes shops with a shrug of the shoulders attitude.
As if 'well you've abandoned us but the reality is we never really needed you' It's an instinctive feeling to rally round indigenous shops or products.
How it plays out in the long run when unemployment goes through the roof or even the local coffee shop chain can't get coffee beans will be interesting but right now even the most ardent shopaholics in downtown Moscow don't seem too bothered.

Starbucks Mcdonalds ect is good for headlines. But if it goes to 40% unemployment as some estimates say, then putting food on the table will be the issue for average Russians.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.businessinsider.com/us-treasury-offering-5-million-rewards-information-russian-oligarchs-assets-2022-3?r=US&IR=T

Big rewards available if you know where Russians have stashed their assets.


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[Renfrew_Hibby]

Starbucks Mcdonalds ect is good for headlines. But if it goes to 40% unemployment as some estimates say, then putting food on the table will be the issue for average Russians.

I know it's still early days, workers are on 'holiday leave' and obviously the full consequences are not being explained or fully realised yet.