NO to reconstruction

[PatHead]

Is it only the Premiership who have to vote by tomorrow or all leagues?

[Spike Mandela]

Is it only the Premiership who have to vote by tomorrow or all leagues?

Doesn’t appear to be a vote. Appears to be yet another information gathering exercise entitled ‘How to get to a 14 team league by hook or by crook’.

[PatHead]

Doesn’t appear to be a vote. Appears to be yet another information gathering exercise entitled ‘How to get to a 14 team league by hook or by crook’.

Thanks but if a majority of clubs are against either option I would expect it to be dead, so a vote in that sense.

[green day]

Doesn’t appear to be a vote. Appears to be yet another information gathering exercise entitled ‘How to get to a 14 team league by hook or by crook’.

I imagine that a number of clubs (including ours going by Keiran P comments) might say "look guys, enough".

Remember, Doncaster is an employee of the clubs - if the clubs say "no plan has the legs to get the required votes" then its over.

Cormack last night said we only have 8 weeks to prepare for the season and that this 5 year temporary cock and bull doesnt float his boat - and he wont be the only voice at tomorrows meeting.

Deoncaster is - reasonably - giving it every chance................and when it does fail, he cant really be hung out to dry by Budge and her Sportsound apologists.

[Waxy]

So they want to ‘work through’ objections? Why isn’t yes or no good enough? Sounds like Doncaster wants this pushed through

Either that or he wants to look like he’s trying, knowing it has zero chance.Its up to the clubs at the end of the day.
It has to be voted on or binned asap.

[Spike Mandela]

Thanks but if a majority of clubs are against either option I would expect it to be dead, so a vote in that sense.

This time though they are being asked what is required to make it more amenable to them. Once this information is gathered, compromises made then and only then will the proposal be put to a vote.

Neil Doncaster is now effectively leading the SPFL reconstruction group doing what Budge’s inept chairmanship of the group could not.

Fuelled by money from the magic money tree if Doncaster can find a way of getting this through he will, no strings attached.:wink:

[CapitalGreen]

Has a club ever had a more cringeing set of supporters than Hearts have? Why are they so obsessed with writing open letters.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-supporter-shareholder-organsations-send-18361617.amp?__twitter_impression=true

[StevieC]

This time though they are being asked what is required to make it more amenable to them. Once this information is gathered, compromises made then and only then will the proposal be put to a vote.

Neil Doncaster is now effectively leading the SPFL reconstruction group doing what Budge’s inept chairmanship of the group could not.

Fuelled by money from the magic money tree if Doncaster can find a way of getting this through he will, no strings attached.:wink:

I think that this is the conclusion I am reaching.

The last time it fell through because some wanted temporary, some wanted permanent and some didn’t want it at all.

We’ve already seen from Cormack, who was happy with temporary but has now said NO to something longer, that it is looking very unlikely that this circle can be squared off.

[Springbank]

I think that this is the conclusion I am reaching.

The last time it fell through because some wanted temporary, some wanted permanent and some didn’t want it at all.

We’ve already seen from Cormack, who was happy with temporary but has now said NO to something longer, that it is looking very unlikely that this circle can be squared off.

Good call from Aberdeen imo

There are arguments for reconstruction, if it is looking at redistribution of money As Well As number of times we play each other per season.

But Budge's 14-14-14 with a bottom 8 split from Feb/Mar onwards fails to address any of these (imo)

It's a discussion for the long term

[Jim44]

So they want to ‘work through’ objections? Why isn’t yes or no good enough? Sounds like Doncaster wants this pushed through

Of course he does. It’ll make his life easier. I think pre-bribe Doncaster is a different animal than than post-bribe Doncaster.

[Mon Dieu4]

Hopefully a few clubs i.e. Hibs simply tell them they are happy with things as they are, stop it all dead in its tracks and put the pressure on to say we need to find out about fixtures etc asap

[Peevemor]

Has a club ever had a more cringeing set of supporters than Hearts have? Why are they so obsessed with writing open letters.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-supporter-shareholder-organsations-send-18361617.amp?__twitter_impression=true (https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-supporter-shareholder-organsations-send-18361617.amp?__twitter_impression=true)

Two things

Firstly

"The groups slammed the lack of leadership shown by the league body, and ask why it’s been left t Ann Budge to find a solution to the current situation caused by the coronavirus pandemic."

A solution has been found - one which was voted for by the vast majority of clubs. It's Budge/Hearts who want to change it.

And secondly

"You can read the full letter bellow:"

Deary me!

[Chorley Hibee]

Has a club ever had a more cringeing set of supporters than Hearts have? Why are they so obsessed with writing open letters.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-supporter-shareholder-organsations-send-18361617.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Asking for "transparent" governance!

That's rich coming from a club propped up by anonymous benefactors.

[Onion]

This time though they are being asked what is required to make it more amenable to them. Once this information is gathered, compromises made then and only then will the proposal be put to a vote.

Neil Doncaster is now effectively leading the SPFL reconstruction group doing what Budge’s inept chairmanship of the group could not.

Fuelled by money from the magic money tree if Doncaster can find a way of getting this through he will, no strings attached.:wink:

There are so many disparate views in the Prem you come up with 6 or 7 alternatives and still not get 11 to vote for one of them. Money will be the key for some, self-preservation and survival for others. Some might just vote against the 14 team league as Budge and ICT have been annoying tits in all of this. And could Hibs be seen to promote Hearts ?

This could go round for ever. Only thing that's changed since the last rejection is that a Hearts fan has flashed his dirty wallet at Doncaster.

[Spike Mandela]

There are so many disparate views in the Prem you come up with 6 or 7 alternatives and still not get 11 to vote for one of them. Money will be the key for some, self-preservation and survival for others. Some might just vote against the 14 team league as Budge and ICT have been annoying tits in all of this. And could Hibs be seen to promote Hearts ?

This could go round for ever. Only thing that's changed since the last rejection is that a Hearts fan has flashed his dirty wallet at Doncaster.

If Doncaster is of the knowledge that the Premier clubs are rejecting it why would he still be pursuing this so vigourously?

[Irish_Steve]

Has a club ever had a more cringeing set of supporters than Hearts have? Why are they so obsessed with writing open letters.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-supporter-shareholder-organsations-send-18361617.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Good to see that they have included the diddy cup for teams outwith the Premiership but forgot to mention the Scottish Cup! Maybe the maroon mutants are going to boycott that too - wallopers

[EdinMike]

Has a club ever had a more cringeing set of supporters than Hearts have? Why are they so obsessed with writing open letters.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-supporter-shareholder-organsations-send-18361617.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Deary me what a load of drivel. I’ll summarise. “Wah, wah, wah. Why are we the only ones trying to find a solution to a problem we’re creating. Also we have money”

[SMAXXA]

If Doncaster is of the knowledge that the Premier clubs are rejecting it why would he still be pursuing this so vigourously?

I’m not sure he is pursuing this vigorously. He’s sent out 1 communicating on the matter likely to show he’s doing something but this doesn’t say he’s desperate to make it happen

[Peevemor]

• We call upon the SPFL to formally ask every member club to submit assurances that they can start and finish season 2020/2021, by which we mean participating in:




o A full league programme (i.e. at least 36 games before play-offs, and 38 in the Premiership)




o The Scottish League Cup




o The Challenge Cup (where clubs play in the Championship, League 1 and League 2)


A bit of a cheek given how they manipulated the dates when they went into administration.

[Onion]

If Doncaster is of the knowledge that the Premier clubs are rejecting it why would he still be pursuing this so vigourously?

Optics ? Doncaster has just agreed to take £2m from a Hearts fan for free. Forget no strings attached nonsense, this is business and Anderson knows that full well. The very least the Hearts fan would expect is a fair hearing for his club.

[Skol]

There is no temporary reconstruction (*) that will get support as the consequences on various groups are too great as the temporary nature is unwound.

Time is too short for a long term solution, but it is doable if clubs want it to happen, but I am not sure the will is there

(*) the exception is if we say for 2020/21 only we will have a one off league with however many teams can put a team on the pitch, The rest of the operation is mothballed until 2021/22 season when we then go with current format and with the current teams as they were at conclusion of 2019/20 and so Hearts get a year in a one off SPFL then are in the Championship. I dont see much support from this but its a possibility

[Peevemor]

I’m not sure he is pursuing this vigorously. He’s sent out 1 communicating on the matter likely to show he’s doing something but this doesn’t say he’s desperate to make it happen

I agree. For me he's been asked to do it by someone putting a fair bit of cash into the game. He can hardly refuse even if he knows the (hopefully) likely outcome.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Optics ? Doncaster has just agreed to take £2m from a Hearts fan for free. Forget no strings attached nonsense, this is business and Anderson knows that full well. The very least the Hearts fan would expect is a fair hearing for his club.

A fair hearing is a strange term considering the threats that have come out of budges mouth in the last few months. Every club signed up to the rules of the league and no doubt had input in to them. What makes hearts the special case that they can't abide with them. They've brought the game into disrepute but have managed to garner sympathy for their cause of their own making through mismanagement. To promote hearts by default would be incredibly stupid

[blackpoolhibs]

I’m not sure he is pursuing this vigorously. He’s sent out 1 communicating on the matter likely to show he’s doing something but this doesn’t say he’s desperate to make it happen

Exactly, people KEEP forgetting he works for the clubs, not the other way around.

He has to give out the information as he receives it, it is then up to the clubs to digest and form their opinions.

Nothing has changed, this is an even worse deal than the last one and the one before that.

The gimps have been relegated, and that is where they will stay, stop wetting yourself folks, Doncaster is only following the rules.

[Tug Wilson]

I just don't get the animosity towards Neil Doncaster on here.

My impression is that he has spoken to James Anderson who has said "Is there no way that reconstruction can work?"

Doncaster has, quite rightly, put this to the clubs. He has worded the question in a reasonably positive manner so that he cannot be accused of bias against reconstruction.

There is no consensus for reconstruction. It falls at the permanent or temporary hurdle straight away. Doncaster knows this.

Once this attempt fails then he can say to Anderson "See we tried. Are you transferring the money direct or sending a cheque?"

Have to say that the £2m quoted is a paltry sum of money. Even the nearly £5m is pathetic. When Budge announced this money tree I thought that we were looking at 10s of millions.

[mal]

This time though they are being asked what is required to make it more amenable to them. Once this information is gathered, compromises made then and only then will the proposal be put to a vote.

The answer to what would make the "proposal" more amenable should of course be a full feasibility study with case studies of how similar structures have worked elsewhere, full consultation with fans, broadcasters, sponsors etc., cost/benefit analysis and so on. Otherwise they're significantly altering the product they are offering with zero market research, which is asking for trouble. And it can't be done in six weeks.

[Andy74]

I just don't get the animosity towards Neil Doncaster on here.

My impression is that he has spoken to James Anderson who has said "Is there no way that reconstruction can work?"

Doncaster has, quite rightly, put this to the clubs. He has worded the question in a reasonably positive manner so that he cannot be accused of bias against reconstruction.

There is no consensus for reconstruction. It falls at the permanent or temporary hurdle straight away. Doncaster knows this.

Once this attempt fails then he can say to Anderson "See we tried. Are you transferring the money direct or sending a cheque?"

Have to say that the £2m quoted is a paltry sum of money. Even the nearly £5m is pathetic. When Budge announced this money tree I thought that we were looking at 10s of millions.

Who is Anderson to be asking the question?

The SPFL appeared to have no appetite for reconstruction and now after a supposed no strings offer of cash we have the Chief Exec of the SPFL practically asking what can be done to agree to reconstruction.

The flak he is getting is for the change of approach. It was one thing having to vote if a formal resolution was proposed but now we have the SPFL encouraging a route to it.

[Waxy]

I just don't get the animosity towards Neil Doncaster on here.

My impression is that he has spoken to James Anderson who has said "Is there no way that reconstruction can work?"

Doncaster has, quite rightly, put this to the clubs. He has worded the question in a reasonably positive manner so that he cannot be accused of bias against reconstruction.

There is no consensus for reconstruction. It falls at the permanent or temporary hurdle straight away. Doncaster knows this.

Once this attempt fails then he can say to Anderson "See we tried. Are you transferring the money direct or sending a cheque?"

Have to say that the £2m quoted is a paltry sum of money. Even the nearly £5m is pathetic. When Budge announced this money tree I thought that we were looking at 10s of millions.Hearts have already said relegation will cost them £3m so bribing with £2m still gives them a profit if they stay up?

I still cant believe the cheek of this.

[Biggie]

Has a club ever had a more cringeing set of supporters than Hearts have? Why are they so obsessed with writing open letters.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-supporter-shareholder-organsations-send-18361617.amp?__twitter_impression=true

They missed the bit about each club should "live within their means" and financial governance. (Submission of annual accounts on time)

[Spike Mandela]

Are clubs that skint that they’d whore themselves out for £47.6k?

J

Hopefully Hibs return this money to the SPFL and ask them to distribute it amongst lower league clubs. Hibs should have nothing to do with it.

[James Stephen]

Hopefully Hibs return this money to the SPFL and ask them to distribute it amongst lower league clubs. Hibs should have nothing to do with it.

Hibs should just pass the money straight over to the NHS campaign we are fundraising for this year.

[Tug Wilson]

Who is Anderson to be asking the question?

The SPFL appeared to have no appetite for reconstruction and now after a supposed no strings offer of cash we have the Chief Exec of the SPFL practically asking what can be done to agree to reconstruction.

The flak he is getting is for the change of approach. It was one thing having to vote if a formal resolution was proposed but now we have the SPFL encouraging a route to it.

Anderson is the guy who is offering a donation to the SPFL. So he has a right to ask questions. The idea that it has no strings attached is laughable.

Personally, I think that Doncaster is cleverly painting Budge and Anderson into a corner.

When reconstruction is rejected (again) then the donation will either have to be made or will be exposed as an attempt at a bribe.

Time will tell who is right.

[Juice-Terry]

"It isn’t a surprise that as Heart of Midlothian supporters we feel strongly that the club currently faces demotion to the Scottish Championship." What does that mean? You have ALREADY been demoted/relegated!

[Andy74]

Anderson is the guy who is offering a donation to the SPFL. So he has a right to ask questions. The idea that it has no strings attached is laughable.

Personally, I think that Doncaster is cleverly painting Budge and Anderson into a corner.

When reconstruction is rejected (again) then the donation will either have to be made or will be exposed as an attempt at a bribe.

Time will tell who is right.

If he is making a donation no strings attached then he has no right to ask questions about reconstruction.

If there are strings attached then it should not be accepted.

Either way he's no right to be pushing this agenda or encouraging the SPFL to do so.

[Waxy]

"It isn’t a surprise that as Heart of Midlothian supporters we feel strongly that the club currently faces demotion to the Scottish Championship." What does that mean? You have ALREADY been demoted/relegated!

They’re getting relegated again tomorrow for the fifth time in the last 12 weeks.
They just cant handle the truth.

[tamig]

If he is making a donation no strings attached then he has no right to ask questions about reconstruction.

If there are strings attached then it should not be accepted.

Either way he's no right to be pushing this agenda or encouraging the SPFL to do so.
Exactly. He is not acting in any capacity as a rep of a member club. He should not be calling any shots here.

[Sammy7nil]

If we are just getting to pick whatever we want, how about a 16 team SPL. 30 games. Top 8 have playoffs home and away 1v8, 2v7 etc to decide champions. Bottom 8 play each other once more in a league format to decide relegation (keeping points from first 30 games).
Would make end of season exciting. Might break the duopoly one year in ten and more often that not, sky will still get it's 4 OF games

What about -

A top league of 2 the OF play each other 36 times and scoop all the TV money and corner the European places. No relegation

League One - Hibs, Hearts, Aberdeen and A. N. Other other play each other 12 times and battle it out for the UEFA league place entering the comp at the 1st prelim round having to play 16 games to get in two the competition proper. No promotion or relegation

League Two - Dundee, Dundee Utd, St Mirren, Killie, Motherwell Falkirk, Dunfermline. Play each other just when they fancy it no promotion or relegation.

League Three - Anyone else who fancies a kick about on an astro turf pitch playing each other when enough folk can get time of their work.

Seems like a win / win situation to me.

[Waxy]

Hearts dont want the clubs making the decisions, hearts want hearts to make the decisions.
This needs in the bin today.

[Wakeyhibee]

Does anyone know where the initial figure of £4.75m came from?

[jacomo]

Has a club ever had a more cringeing set of supporters than Hearts have? Why are they so obsessed with writing open letters.

https://www.edinburghlive.co.uk/sport/football/hearts-supporter-shareholder-organsations-send-18361617.amp?__twitter_impression=true


If they had the courtesy to write a readable letter with proper grammar, it might be received better.

That is just an incoherent mess.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

If they had the courtesy to write a readable letter with proper grammar, it might be received better.

That is just an incoherent mess.

Hearts speciality - on and off the pitch

[Aldo]

Once again another ego trip for them going in about big this etc.... total revamp and those clubs whose supporters make the biggest contribute should be recognised.

What a crock of ****ing *****


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[vuefrom1875]

If they had the courtesy to write a readable letter with proper grammar, it might be received better.

That is just an incoherent mess.

Illiterate ramblings, cobbled on the back of a fag packet.

[Tug Wilson]

If he is making a donation no strings attached then he has no right to ask questions about reconstruction.

If there are strings attached then it should not be accepted.

Either way he's no right to be pushing this agenda or encouraging the SPFL to do so.

Budge made this public.

The SPFL cannot be seen to reject it out of hand.

Doncaster now seems to be going through the canvassing process that Budge should have.

People seem to quick to jump on Doncaster and the SPFL (and for that matter Hibernian FC).

From Dave Cormack's comments it would seem that the 5 year proposal has even less support than the original 2 year version.

Once it fails, Anderson either has to stump up or admit that the offer was only conditional on reconstruction and that Budge lied on Sportsound.

Let's see how it plays out then feel free to come back and tell me what an idiot I was and how I read it all wrong.

[Bostonhibby]

Budge made this public.

The SPFL cannot be seen to reject it out of hand.

Doncaster now seems to be going through the canvassing process that Budge should have.

People seem to quick to jump on Doncaster and the SPFL (and for that matter Hibernian FC).

From Dave Cormack's comments it would seem that the 5 year proposal has even less support than the original 2 year version.

Once it fails, Anderson either has to stump up or admit that the offer was only conditional on reconstruction and that Budge lied on Sportsound.

Let's see how it plays out then feel free to come back and tell me what an idiot I was and how I read it all wrong.There's no doubt in my mind that for whatever reason (maybe just to finally get it over with) Doncaster has had to take a lead as Budge has done everything to avoid producing an actual final proposal with an end date after a vote.

I suspect at Tynecastle she's used to just issuing directives to others to get what she wants done, actual delivery and leadership is what's been totally missing from the "task force".



Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Hibs90]

Would like to hear our owners view on this. Other chairmen are quick enough to comment.

[JimBHibees]

Does anyone know where the initial figure of £4.75m came from?

BBC kheredine idessane tweeted about a figure over 4m

[JimBHibees]

If he is making a donation no strings attached then he has no right to ask questions about reconstruction.

If there are strings attached then it should not be accepted.

Either way he's no right to be pushing this agenda or encouraging the SPFL to do so.

Spot on

[nonshinyfinish]

Would like to hear our owners view on this. Other chairmen are quick enough to comment.

I'm perfectly happy for Hibs to say nothing and just vote it down if it comes to that. They will be voicing their opinions to other clubs in whatever informal discussions are taking place.

The clubs that release a statement every time someone coughs have hardly covered themselves in glory these last few months.

[Waxy]

Would like to hear our owners view on this. Other chairmen are quick enough to comment.

I like how we deal with such issues.
Keeping our thoughts to ourselves until it’s time to speak.
If there’s any need at all.Sometimes it’s best to say nothing.

[JimBHibees]

I'm perfectly happy for Hibs to say nothing and just vote it down if it comes to that. They will be voicing their opinions to other clubs in whatever informal discussions are taking place.

The clubs that release a statement every time someone coughs have hardly covered themselves in glory these last few months.

Agree no need to say anything at present.

[Wakeyhibee]

BBC kheredine idessane tweeted about a figure over 4m

Thanks, I was just wondering if this is a "two stage" donation.

[The 90+2]

Is tomorrow’s vote the final one and that’s it? I’m sick fed up with all of it and now not up to date.

[Hibs90]

I'm perfectly happy for Hibs to say nothing and just vote it down if it comes to that. They will be voicing their opinions to other clubs in whatever informal discussions are taking place.

The clubs that release a statement every time someone coughs have hardly covered themselves in glory these last few months.


I like how we deal with such issues.
Keeping our thoughts to ourselves until it’s time to speak.
If there’s any need at all.Sometimes it’s best to say nothing.

Get your point and usually would agree however it's not always best to say nothing. We could be the catalyst for other clubs to speak out against this for what it is albeit many already speaking out against reconstruction.

[Andy74]

There's no doubt in my mind that for whatever reason (maybe just to finally get it over with) Doncaster has had to take a lead as Budge has done everything to avoid producing an actual final proposal with an end date after a vote.

I suspect at Tynecastle she's used to just issuing directives to others to get what she wants done, actual delivery and leadership is what's been totally missing from the "task force".



Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

It was dead though so there was no need to take any lead. There was never a resolution to vote on either, just a letter from a Club Chairman to other clubs.

There was no need for him to try and facilitate the overcoming of people's objectives to this and it looks very bad that he went down this road the day after having discussions about a donation from Hearts' major financial backer.

[Bostonhibby]

It was dead though so there was no need to take any lead. There was never a resolution to vote on either, just a letter from a Club Chairman to other clubs.

There was no need for him to try and facilitate the overcoming of people's objectives to this and it looks very bad that he went down this road the day after having discussions about a donation from Hearts' major financial backer.

Yep, I can see it that way too.

The whole process has endured for a reason, it's been allowed to get to where it is now and it's still not concluded. I'm hoping he is belatedly bringing it to an end before Budge and the money men hatch another idea to keep the team that finished bottom up, which is what this is all about.

The rest of the clubs need the chief executive to end it so they can prepare for next season and the challenges ahead.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Skol]

If he is making a donation no strings attached then he has no right to ask questions about reconstruction.

If there are strings attached then it should not be accepted.

Either way he's no right to be pushing this agenda or encouraging the SPFL to do so.

If it had strings attached then it’s getting into bribery territory.

[007]

If we are just getting to pick whatever we want, how about a 16 team SPL. 30 games. Top 8 have playoffs home and away 1v8, 2v7 etc to decide champions. Bottom 8 play each other once more in a league format to decide relegation (keeping points from first 30 games).
Would make end of season exciting. Might break the duopoly one year in ten and more often that not, sky will still get it's 4 OF games

Are you suggesting a knockout tournament to decide the league champions where the 1st 30 matches are to decide who qualifies and the seeding?

[007]

Personally I think Budge has been feeding ‘off the record’ quotes to BBC Scotland and DR on a near-daily basis.

She’s almost certainly responsible for the quotes in the latest story.

What amazes me is that she doesn’t seem to realise that other club chairmen know what she’s up to. Some of the on record criticism of her has been pretty excruciating and humiliating - other chairmen are openly questioning her integrity and motives.

I hope she stops before it gets worse.

She's certainly been feeding Tom English who has been doing her bidding on the BBC podcast today, saying she'll almost certainly take out an interdict to stop football starting if reconstruction fails.

Funnily enough their reason is restriction of trade and if they manage to stop football from restarting they'll be restricting everyone's trade so hopefully there will be at least 12 counter lawsuits against Hearts.

[pacoluna]

If hearts somehow find their way Into the top league next season I certainly won't be attending tynie.

[The Count]

She's certainly been feeding Tom English who has been doing her bidding on the BBC podcast today, saying she'll almost certainly take out an interdict to stop football starting if reconstruction fails.

Funnily enough their reason is restriction of trade and if they manage to stop football from restarting they'll be restricting everyone's trade so hopefully there will be at least 12 counter lawsuits against Hearts.

Has to be a bluff even she must know if she stops Scottish football she would make Hearts a hated club for eternity.

[Jim44]

She's certainly been feeding Tom English who has been doing her bidding on the BBC podcast today, saying she'll almost certainly take out an interdict to stop football starting if reconstruction fails.

Funnily enough their reason is restriction of trade and if they manage to stop football from restarting they'll be restricting everyone's trade so hopefully there will be at least 12 counter lawsuits against Hearts.

If the old prune goes to court and happens to win, I don’t think instant promotion would be on the cards. It would likely be some sort of financial compensation which would have to be paid for by the 42 clubs including Hearts. As the bribe has no strings attached, maybe the money from Anderson could be used to pay the bill. She would be really popular.

[Andy74]

If the old prune goes to court and happens to win, I don’t think instant promotion would be on the cards. It would likely be some sort of financial compensation which would have to be paid for by the 42 clubs including Hearts. As the bribe has no strings attached, maybe the money from Anderson could be used to pay the bill. She would be really popular.

The legal thing is an absolute non starter.

[147lothian]

I like how we deal with such issues.
Keeping our thoughts to ourselves until it’s time to speak.
If there’s any need at all.Sometimes it’s best to say nothing.


:top marks

[Gerard]

If it was Hibs that was in the position that Hearts are in; would you still be against reconstruction?

[Skol]

If it was Hibs that was in the position that Hearts are in; would you still be against reconstruction?

I would hope it could be done but realistically know it’s a long shot.

[bingo70]

If it was Hibs that was in the position that Hearts are in; would you still be against reconstruction?

I wouldn’t be against it but I would recognise it’s a ***** deal for the rest of the clubs in the premier league.

[weecounty hibby]

If it was Hibs that was in the position that Hearts are in; would you still be against reconstruction?

Yes 100% as it's is not the thing to do. But I would want Hibs to look at every avenue but would also expect us to be dignified as a club a bit like PTFC. And the complete opposite of the tarts

[Jim44]

If it was Hibs that was in the position that Hearts are in; would you still be against reconstruction?

Probably not but Budge is is getting a bloody good long kick of the ball and is still threatening legal action if she doesn’t get her way.

[Lancs Harp]

If it was Hibs that was in the position that Hearts are in; would you still be against reconstruction?

Harry Swan tried the same thing back in the early 60s when Hibs were struggling against relegation. He suggesed a restructure increasing the number of first division clubs which woud have saved Hibs from a possible relegation (wasnt needed in the end anyway). It was just after a few seasons after the esteemed Chairman put forward plans to actually reduce the number of teams in the top flight.

Lets face it Hearts like anyone else are just acting in their own self interest, as we ourselves have done in the past.

[Alfred E Newman]

If it was Hibs that was in the position that Hearts are in; would you still be against reconstruction?

I would.
I’d be sick at being relegated but the 14 team premier league is no improvement on what we have at the moment .

[Lee Marvin]

If it was Hibs that was in the position that Hearts are in; would you still be against reconstruction?

Nobody on here would, regardless of what they say.

However, what is the purpose of that question?

[The 90+2]

Is tomorrow’s vote the final one and that’s it? I’m sick fed up with all of it and now not up to date.

Anyone? Please?

[Andy74]

Anyone? Please?

There won't be an actual vote until the resolution is put to the members. This is just assessing interest. If there isn't enough support I would think that would be it and it won't get to a vote.

The vote would then need a resolution drawn up and voting to take place. That takes time which everyone is running out of.

[calumhibee1]

Anyone? Please?

There’s not even a vote tomorrow, never mind a final one. It’s just discussions regarding the proposal to gather feedback/potentially get an idea if there’ll be enough support.. yes, it’s that same meeting yet again.

[calumhibee1]

If it was Hibs that was in the position that Hearts are in; would you still be against reconstruction?

I’d probably be happy with anything that didn’t see us relegated. I’d at least be able to see that it was being done for our benefit and that the league structure would be worse off for it unlike Hearts and their fans who think they’re doing everyone else a favour for some reason.

[Andy74]

If it was Hibs that was in the position that Hearts are in; would you still be against reconstruction?

If there happened to be moves towards a well thought out reconstruction that was better than the structure in place and it also saved Hibs from relegation then great, of course I'd be in favour of that.

If you are asking if I'd be in favour of Hibs leading a protracted campaign to force through a badly thought out reconstruction proposal, during a period of severe disruption and uncertainty, to save ourselves after being the worst team in the league for over a year. This campaign to include threats of legal action, referencing other clubs going out of business and culminating in a financial bribe then no, I wouldn't support that.

[JohnM1875]

Raith on reconstruction:

"Mr Clark revealed that the club joined in discussions with other clubs in the Championship on Tuesday to debate the 14-14-14 league reconstruction model proposed by Hearts owner Ann Budge.

Despite going on record as firmly favouring reconstruction in theory, Mr Clark said Rovers would be giving Budge’s plan the thumbs down.

“The clubs had an initial discussion on Tuesday where Rovers Vice-Chairman David Sinton was the Rovers representative,” he said.

All 42 clubs across the divisions have to submit an email to the SPFL by Friday indicating whether they approve it or don’t.

“It’s not an actual vote, it’s just a ‘yes we agree with it’ or don’t.

“The board had a discussion about it yesterday and our view is while we favour reconstruction, we don’t think it’s the right time.

“We would also prefer a permanent solution rather than a temporary solution as this one is.”

Mr Clark highlighted factors which he said left the club “not fully enthusiastic” with the idea.

“For example, what it means at the moment on paper is in two years time, six clubs would be relegated from the Championship. We don’t think that’s good.

We would also like Kelty Hearts and Brora Rangers to be included and 14-14-14 doesn’t allow for that.

“Those are the two reasons really why we would be against it.

“There would be more uncertainty in two years time. Raith Rovers could well be in that bottom six in the Championship.

“That is a huge risk for any Championship club. It’s not one I think we could contemplate really.

“I think there are a number of clubs who are dead set against it, like Ayr United for example."

So no vote. Just to say if you agree with it or not.

[Greenworld]

I see Aberdeen are against a 5 year change so its a no from them

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

[04Sauzee]

Raith on reconstruction:

"Mr Clark revealed that the club joined in discussions with other clubs in the Championship on Tuesday to debate the 14-14-14 league reconstruction model proposed by Hearts owner Ann Budge.

Despite going on record as firmly favouring reconstruction in theory, Mr Clark said Rovers would be giving Budge’s plan the thumbs down.

“The clubs had an initial discussion on Tuesday where Rovers Vice-Chairman David Sinton was the Rovers representative,” he said.

All 42 clubs across the divisions have to submit an email to the SPFL by Friday indicating whether they approve it or don’t.

“It’s not an actual vote, it’s just a ‘yes we agree with it’ or don’t.

“The board had a discussion about it yesterday and our view is while we favour reconstruction, we don’t think it’s the right time.

“We would also prefer a permanent solution rather than a temporary solution as this one is.”

Mr Clark highlighted factors which he said left the club “not fully enthusiastic” with the idea.

“For example, what it means at the moment on paper is in two years time, six clubs would be relegated from the Championship. We don’t think that’s good.

We would also like Kelty Hearts and Brora Rangers to be included and 14-14-14 doesn’t allow for that.

“Those are the two reasons really why we would be against it.

“There would be more uncertainty in two years time. Raith Rovers could well be in that bottom six in the Championship.

“That is a huge risk for any Championship club. It’s not one I think we could contemplate really.

“I think there are a number of clubs who are dead set against it, like Ayr United for example."

So no vote. Just to say if you agree with it or not.

Still loads of shades of Grey here lots of talk about 2 years and nothing with regards to the 5 years mooted by Doncaster and what would make them consider reconstruction?

Glad it's a no at the moment

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

If it was Hibs that was in the position that Hearts are in; would you still be against reconstruction?

No, but what’s that got to do with anything?

What team that’s been relegated in any division would pass that opportunity up to save their skins after a pitiful season of under achievement?

[Paul1642]

Still loads of shades of Grey here lots of talk about 2 years and nothing with regards to the 5 years mooted by Doncaster and what would make them consider reconstruction?

Glad it's a no at the moment

Same principle with a longer timeframe. Raith are on an average season gonna be in or close to the bottom 6 of the championship. Not worth the risk for them and a lot of clubs in similar position.

[04Sauzee]

Same principle with a longer timeframe. Raith are on an average season gonna be in or close to the bottom 6 of the championship. Not worth the risk for them and a lot of clubs in similar position.

Agreed and you would think with Mcormack being so vocal he won't be changing his mind or he'd look silly, looking more and more likely this will be booted out the park

[JohnM1875]

Still loads of shades of Grey here lots of talk about 2 years and nothing with regards to the 5 years mooted by Doncaster and what would make them consider reconstruction?

Glad it's a no at the moment

Think the 5 year suggestion was after there call on Tuesday. But I imagine they'd still be against it. As its not a permanent solution. Hope so anyway.

[The 90+2]

Thanks Andy & Callum. What a load of boring ****.

You would think with the virtual tickets on sale the league would be eager to publish the fixtures enticing folk to buy.

[theonlywayisup]

Surely the term "a donkey is a horse designed by a committee" was made for such occasions.

Can we not all agree that there isn't an option that all agree with, so lets stick with the status quo for the moment.

[bingo70]

Surely the term "a donkey is a horse designed by a committee" was made for such occasions.

Can we not all agree that there isn't an option that all agree with, so lets stick with the status quo for the moment.

Is it not a camel that was a horse designed by a committee? 😃

[Onion]

Thanks, I was just wondering if this is a "two stage" donation.

It is.

£2M to buy Hearts a place at the top table - as they couldn't do it through sporting merit.

£2.75M to Hearts to waste over 20/21 season.

If this turns out to be a strings attached donation from this Hearts fan, Doncaster should call him out publicly and proclaim football cannot be bribed.

[Waxy]

Scottish football doesnt need reconstruction.
We have our best model.
Only hearts want reconstruction.

[Stuart93]

Aberdeen saying no to 5 years
St Mirren previously said no to reconstruction
All we need is a hibs no

Get it done

[Waxy]

There isnt even a proper proposal.
She doesnt know what she’s doing.
It’s anything that will unjustly keep hearts up and stuff what it costs other clubs.
Sickener it has gone on so long that they’re now getting away with bribery like it’s a normal thing.

[Heisenberg]

Scottish football doesnt need reconstruction.
We have our best model.
Only hearts want reconstruction.

Absolutely this. Too many teams are against permanent reconstruction, too many are against temporary, too many want a different number of teams. Its not working.

[Bostonhibby]

Is it not a camel that was a horse designed by a committee? [emoji2]It was meant to be a camel but Gardiner forgot to order one.

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[Onion]

If it was Hibs that was in the position that Hearts are in; would you still be against reconstruction?

Under Butcher, Hibs as a club had lost it's way and was full of underperforming losers. It took relegation to force through the changes (staff and culture) to help re-engage with fans and build from the ground up. Does anyone really think Hibs would have won the cup in 2016 had we scraped past Hamilton ? I don't. Sometimes things are so bad you're best to take your medicine - so yes, if Hibs were as bad as Hearts are now, I'd be ok with relegation. They are a bloated mess of a club which has lost it's way. The only thing they have left is hatred and anger and a tendency to lash out at anything and everything. Sad losers.

[jacomo]

"It isn’t a surprise that as Heart of Midlothian supporters we feel strongly that the club currently faces demotion to the Scottish Championship." What does that mean? You have ALREADY been demoted/relegated!


It’s baffling, but I think it means that they feel strongly that they will be in the championship next season.

They are a bright bunch... everyone else realised this three months ago.

[EI255]

The article was about a number of things - The restart in August, Andersons cash, the virtual tv bit is linked there, and also the potential of reconstruction.

The BBC can pontificate all it wants, but unless 11 clubs vote for it in the Prem it isnt happening full stop.

Aberdeen are against, Hibs, St Mirren, Hamilton, Ross County, Livi etc etc should all be against.

Who is for it in the Prem?It's definitely buggered for Queen Anne. Everyone can move on and she can get back to doing her anti ageing treatment.

Sent from my LG-H840 using Tapatalk

[h1bs4life]

Getting beyond a joke. Pandering to old bagpuss. Get them down and get the fixtures out for next season so all the Premier teams and fans can get on with it.

[nonshinyfinish]

Is it not a camel that was a horse designed by a committee? 😃

Yep – the committee rejected the donkey design but he ended up getting £8k a week at Hearts.

[theonlywayisup]

Is it not a camel that was a horse designed by a committee? 😃

Whilst it's true that camel was used in the original saying, it's donkey that I've heard used more often, at least where I was brought up. Hence why I stated donkey. Others have used the saying too!

https://www.thefulltoss.com/england-cricket-blog/a-donkey-is-a-horse-designed-by-a-committee-day-one-at-the-oval/

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-chat/2489934/posts

[tamig]

Are you suggesting a knockout tournament to decide the league champions where the 1st 30 matches are to decide who qualifies and the seeding?

As a novelty factor, we could sacrifice a European spot to be reserved for one of the bottom four. Bottom gets relegated, second bottom plays off to stay up and the other two play off for a euro spot. Magic stuff 😀

[Logie Green]

Under Butcher, Hibs as a club had lost it's way and was full of underperforming losers. It took relegation to force through the changes (staff and culture) to help re-engage with fans and build from the ground up. Does anyone really think Hibs would have won the cup in 2016 had we scraped past Hamilton ? I don't. Sometimes things are so bad you're best to take your medicine - so yes, if Hibs were as bad as Hearts are now, I'd be ok with relegation. They are a bloated mess of a club which has lost it's way. The only thing they have left is hatred and anger and a tendency to lash out at anything and everything. Sad losers.

Surely the main difference between us under Butcher and them just now is that we were relegated because of results on the pitch whereas they’ve been demoted after a vote.
If we’d been 4 points behind Celtic with 8 or 9 games to go and they’d been awarded the title this thread and others would’ve been slightly different.

[tamig]

If hearts somehow find their way Into the top league next season I certainly won't be attending tynie.

How does the green pound compare to the maroon?

[bingo70]

I assume that as premier league clubs are returning to training on the 11th June then this will all need to be resolved by then so all clubs in the league are able to have the same pre-season?

[nonshinyfinish]

Surely the main difference between us under Butcher and them just now is that we were relegated because of results on the pitch whereas they’ve been demoted after a vote.
If we’d been 4 points behind Celtic with 8 or 9 games to go and they’d been awarded the title this thread and others would’ve been slightly different.

They weren't demoted, they were relegated. Because they were bottom when the season finished, per the league rules.

[Waxy]

Surely the main difference between us under Butcher and them just now is that we were relegated because of results on the pitch whereas they’ve been demoted after a vote.
If we’d been 4 points behind Celtic with 8 or 9 games to go and they’d been awarded the title this thread and others would’ve been slightly different.

Maybe so but the season had to end promptly as everyones life was at risk.
Unlucky for hearts but it was the fairest thing to do.

[tamig]

I would.
I’d be sick at being relegated but the 14 team premier league is no improvement on what we have at the moment .

I’m sure I read a Budge briefing that said it would remove the monotony of playing teams four times a season.

[Skol]

Under Butcher, Hibs as a club had lost it's way and was full of underperforming losers. It took relegation to force through the changes (staff and culture) to help re-engage with fans and build from the ground up. Does anyone really think Hibs would have won the cup in 2016 had we scraped past Hamilton ? I don't. Sometimes things are so bad you're best to take your medicine - so yes, if Hibs were as bad as Hearts are now, I'd be ok with relegation. They are a bloated mess of a club which has lost it's way. The only thing they have left is hatred and anger and a tendency to lash out at anything and everything. Sad losers.

That’s a very good point. You could argue the same under Duff Jimmy. We cane back stronger.

Maybe we should reconstruct and keep hearts from learning from their mistakes

[Onion]

Surely the main difference between us under Butcher and them just now is that we were relegated because of results on the pitch whereas they’ve been demoted after a vote.
If we’d been 4 points behind Celtic with 8 or 9 games to go and they’d been awarded the title this thread and others would’ve been slightly different.

Wrong. Season was declared finished, Hearts were bottom due to results on the pitch and were rightly relegated. Their bleating since then about legal action, reconstruction and now shamefully trying to bribe the league should see them dropped into the 3rd division. But we're a compassionate lot, so languishing in the lower leagues to reflect on their behaviour will do for now. Once they've said sorry, we might let them join the top table again :cb

[Gerard]

Maybe so but the season had to end promptly as everyones life was at risk.
Unlucky for hearts but it was the fairest thing to do.

So would we have to accept this situation as Hearts must accept relegation

[Iain G]

Surely the term "a donkey is a horse designed by a committee" was made for such occasions.

Can we not all agree that there isn't an option that all agree with, so lets stick with the status quo for the moment.

The sooner Budge realises this is the majority vote and not some whatever you want thing and accept they are going down down the better :greengrin

[Hibees1973]

If it is a no vote for reconstruction it is clear Hearts will go to court as their benefactor will foot the bill for it. Will get very ugly if this is their path.

The revelation this week that Doncaster approached other SPFL clubs this for their views on a 14 team leagues gives the impression this was on the back of a meeting with the benefactor who is backing Hearts. Budge said this was a ‘no strings’ donation. I think not. Doncaster lost all the credibility he had overseeing this farce for the last 3 months. However, he has surpassed himself by smelling the Hearts benefactors money and canvassing support for reconstruction, when previously he had absolutely no interest in it.

Which brings me to the Hearts benefactor. Press report have suggested he is incredibly wealthy with a eye for good business. Well he has not got much to show for his £10m charitable donation to Hearts. Gives me the boak that this money could have gone to more worthwhile causes. Child poverty is rife in Scotland for one and all the honest hard working people out of a job due to the coronavirus.

[Sammy7nil]

If there happened to be moves towards a well thought out reconstruction that was better than the structure in place and it also saved Hibs from relegation then great, of course I'd be in favour of that.

If you are asking if I'd be in favour of Hibs leading a protracted campaign to force through a badly thought out reconstruction proposal, during a period of severe disruption and uncertainty, to save ourselves after being the worst team in the league for over a year. This campaign to include threats of legal action, referencing other clubs going out of business and culminating in a financial bribe then no, I wouldn't support that.

:aok: This where I am too, of course you should fight what you see as an injustice but there is a time to look at the bigger picture, listen to those around you, face reality and in the words of our great PM :rolleyes: lets move on.

[hibbyfraelibby]

How does the green pound compare to the maroon?

Everyone knows a green back "trumps" any other currency

[Crazyhorse]

As a novelty factor, we could sacrifice a European spot to be reserved for one of the bottom four. Bottom gets relegated, second bottom plays off to stay up and the other two play off for a euro spot. Magic stuff 😀

The Belgian 16 team model is by far the best model in the world for smaller countries if you want to avoid the so called pointless end of season games.

[CapitalGreen]

I’m sure I read a Budge briefing that said it would remove the monotony of playing teams four times a season.

Under her plan, the teams in 5th and 6th position could face each other 6 times a season once you include her European place play off.

[Cat Stanton]

The Belgian 16 team model is by far the best model in the world for smaller countries if you want to avoid the so called pointless end of season games.

Seems interesting: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_First_Division_A

Let's do that. Once Hearts have a season or two down below.

[Monts]

The Belgian 16 team model is by far the best model in the world for smaller countries if you want to avoid the so called pointless end of season games.

How does it work?

[zitelli62]

How does the green pound compare to the maroon?

I'm sure the pound note was green.

[Kaff]

Under Butcher, Hibs as a club had lost it's way and was full of underperforming losers. It took relegation to force through the changes (staff and culture) to help re-engage with fans and build from the ground up. Does anyone really think Hibs would have won the cup in 2016 had we scraped past Hamilton ? I don't. Sometimes things are so bad you're best to take your medicine - so yes, if Hibs were as bad as Hearts are now, I'd be ok with relegation. They are a bloated mess of a club which has lost it's way. The only thing they have left is hatred and anger and a tendency to lash out at anything and everything. Sad losers.

This is exactly where I'm at, there's a small (very small) part of me that would like to see them stay up and continue this malaise they're in whereas relegation gives that immediate boost to morale of winning games again and the probability of new manager and players too.
We needed the re-set that we got although Leeann may well have managed to do the same in the top tier it did give Stubbs the advantage of less pressured games at times to allow the rebuild. That being said 3yrs was too long if it hadn't been for the great cup form.

Definitely want them down and hope that the transition to playing teams who will all want to sit in will prove difficult for them to adjust to, it seemed to be who they struggled against in SPL?

[Waxy]

Seems interesting: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belgian_First_Division_A

Let's do that. Once Hearts have a season or two down below.

I prefer our top 12 were the bottom team gets relegated most of the time.
Really do think we’ve already got the best format for our top league.
The championship downward could be tweaked to be bigger and add more teams.If they feel it would be better and pass a vote?

[brianmc]

I'm sure the pound note was green.

This comment makes me feel really old.....

[tamig]

I'm sure the pound note was green.

It was indeed and I still have one of the last ones issued.

[Sammy7nil]

Nookie Bear
Gorgie Über Alles
Nookie Bear
Paid Member

20,158 posts
Posted 23 minutes ago
The most shocking aspect of all this has been the fact that not one club- except us and the benefactor we introduced - has shown the slightest desire to save the Scottish game for the short and medium term.


I had zero respect for our rivals anyway but any respect I had for smaller teams trying to get by has well and truly gone.


I am so angry at them all that I don’t trust myself to attend a game for some time so it’s probably just as well we will not be allowed !


Again no irony how the **** are they trying to save Scottish football? Confused dot com :greengrin

[Wakeyhibee]

The Belgian 16 team model is by far the best model in the world for smaller countries if you want to avoid the so called pointless end of season games.

No thanks, just had a look. your still in a playoff for Europe no matter where you finish.

10 points clear of rivals at the split and now you're only 5

[JohnMcM]

If it is a no vote for reconstruction it is clear Hearts will go to court as their benefactor will foot the bill for it. Will get very ugly if this is their path.

The revelation this week that Doncaster approached other SPFL clubs this for their views on a 14 team leagues gives the impression this was on the back of a meeting with the benefactor who is backing Hearts. Budge said this was a ‘no strings’ donation. I think not. Doncaster lost all the credibility he had overseeing this farce for the last 3 months. However, he has surpassed himself by smelling the Hearts benefactors money and canvassing support for reconstruction, when previously he had absolutely no interest in it.

Which brings me to the Hearts benefactor. Press report have suggested he is incredibly wealthy with a eye for good business. Well he has not got much to show for his £10m charitable donation to Hearts. Gives me the boak that this money could have gone to more worthwhile causes. Child poverty is rife in Scotland for one and all the honest hard working people out of a job due to the coronavirus.

Have you considered that Anderson may well be donating to worthwhile causes?

[Sammy7nil]

Have you considered that Anderson may well be donating to worthwhile causes?

I think there is absolutely no doubt he is but you still have to ask why he is donating to a terribly run money munching waste machine like Hearts. To me that is not philanthropic it is moronic. Just my opinion of course.

[Crazyhorse]

How does it work?


Check the link in Cat Stanton’s post.

[duffers]

Nookie Bear
Gorgie Über Alles
Nookie Bear
Paid Member

20,158 posts
Posted 23 minutes ago
The most shocking aspect of all this has been the fact that not one club- except us and the benefactor we introduced - has shown the slightest desire to save the Scottish game for the short and medium term.


I had zero respect for our rivals anyway but any respect I had for smaller teams trying to get by has well and truly gone.


I am so angry at them all that I don’t trust myself to attend a game for some time so it’s probably just as well we will not be allowed !


Again no irony how the **** are they trying to save Scottish football? Confused dot com :greengrin


Nookie bear does seem to be rather upset. He’s just posted a comment saying that no club (Referencing hibs and Aberdeen) should be able to sign players until all current players have had all back dated wages paid. Classic kickback, just ignore the fact that we are actually paying our wages in full, rather than the hearts method of ‘take a wage cut or we’re cutting up your contract’ approach

[Jim44]

I think there is absolutely no doubt he is but you still have to ask why he is donating to a terribly run money munching waste machine like Hearts. To me that is not philanthropic it is moronic. Just my opinion of course.

He donates to Hearts because he is a wealthy man who supports hearts. His gifts to them is not philanthropist, it is an indulgence and his so called philanthropic gesture to Scottish football is to benefit Hearts and nothing else.

[Bostonhibby]

Nookie bear does seem to be rather upset. He’s just posted a comment saying that no club (Referencing hibs and Aberdeen) should be able to sign players until all current players have had all back dated wages paid. Classic kickback, just ignore the fact that we are actually paying our wages in full, rather than the hearts method of ‘take a wage cut or we’re cutting up your contract’ approachBut to be fair on Nookie Bear he is a ventriloquists dummy so is unlikely to have a coherent thought of his own, relying instead on a man with his hand inserted where the sun doesn't shine to control his very existence.



Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[jacomo]

If it is a no vote for reconstruction it is clear Hearts will go to court as their benefactor will foot the bill for it. Will get very ugly if this is their path.

The revelation this week that Doncaster approached other SPFL clubs this for their views on a 14 team leagues gives the impression this was on the back of a meeting with the benefactor who is backing Hearts. Budge said this was a ‘no strings’ donation. I think not. Doncaster lost all the credibility he had overseeing this farce for the last 3 months. However, he has surpassed himself by smelling the Hearts benefactors money and canvassing support for reconstruction, when previously he had absolutely no interest in it.

Which brings me to the Hearts benefactor. Press report have suggested he is incredibly wealthy with a eye for good business. Well he has not got much to show for his £10m charitable donation to Hearts. Gives me the boak that this money could have gone to more worthwhile causes. Child poverty is rife in Scotland for one and all the honest hard working people out of a job due to the coronavirus.


Presumably you are also sick at the thought that Ron Gordon invested in Hibs rather than his local hospital?

Rich people spend their money on all sorts of things.

[Crazyhorse]

No thanks, just had a look. your still in a playoff for Europe no matter where you finish.

10 points clear of rivals at the split and now you're only 5

I would look at it positively. Going for Europe is more exciting than thinking the top six is an achievement. Four different teams have won the Belgian title in the past decade - should have been 5 but Standard Liege blew it and finished runner up on three occasions in that time.
There is also the small fact of the rise of Belgian football overall since they adopted this model and started to churn out international class footballers at an increasing rate. Anyone any idea where Belgium are in the FIFA world rankings?

[duffers]

I think there is absolutely no doubt he is but you still have to ask why he is donating to a terribly run money munching waste machine like Hearts. To me that is not philanthropic it is moronic. Just my opinion of course.

The guy is a multi millionaire, 9 million to him will just be short change to him, and he seems a decent enough guy, I’d imagine he will have given a fair chunk of money to different charities over the years. I think most on this forum would be handing over similar, if not more money to hibs if they had his sort of cash in the bank.

The fact that they have had this amount of cash pumped into them and still finished bottom would have me asking some serious questions on what they have spent the money on though... this is probably about 5x as much as your Hamilton’s, St Johnstone earn in a year, yet both of those teams finished comfortably ahead of them. Which is a great shame

[vuefrom1875]

The guy is a multi millionaire, 9 million to him will just be short change to him, and he seems a decent enough guy, I’d imagine he will have given a fair chunk of money to different charities over the years. I think most on this forum would be handing over similar, if not more money to hibs if they had his sort of cash in the bank.

The fact that they have had this amount of cash pumped into them and still finished bottom would have me asking some serious questions on what they have spent the money on though... this is probably about 5x as much as your Hamilton’s, St Johnstone earn in a year, yet both of those teams finished comfortably ahead of them. Which is a great shame

Aye fine but are they Doon yet 😗

[Billy Whizz]

He donates to Hearts because he is a wealthy man who supports hearts. His gifts to them is not philanthropist, it is an indulgence and his so called philanthropic gesture to Scottish football is to benefit Hearts and nothing else.

Surprised they didn’t name the stand after him

[Glory Lurker]

It was indeed and I still have one of the last ones issued.

Wow. How much do you think it'll be worth?

[Andy74]

Nookie Bear
Gorgie Über Alles
Nookie Bear
Paid Member

20,158 posts
Posted 23 minutes ago
The most shocking aspect of all this has been the fact that not one club- except us and the benefactor we introduced - has shown the slightest desire to save the Scottish game for the short and medium term.


I had zero respect for our rivals anyway but any respect I had for smaller teams trying to get by has well and truly gone.


I am so angry at them all that I don’t trust myself to attend a game for some time so it’s probably just as well we will not be allowed !


Again no irony how the **** are they trying to save Scottish football? Confused dot com :greengrin

If they can save themselves they’ll save us all.

[Andy74]

It was indeed and I still have one of the last ones issued.

Although they stopped regular production in 2001 RBS still issue about 15,000 £1 notes a year. There’s over 17 million still in circulation. They were never officially withdrawn.

[malcolm]

Wow. How much do you think it'll be worth?

Well you could buy a round with one :wink:

[jacomo]

He donates to Hearts because he is a wealthy man who supports hearts. His gifts to them is not philanthropist, it is an indulgence and his so called philanthropic gesture to Scottish football is to benefit Hearts and nothing else.


And how do you know this?

By all accounts, the £2m looks like a gift to be shared amongst all 42 league clubs equally.

Let’s not seethe just because the guy is a Jambo. To me, it appears to be a generous and - yes - philanthropic gesture.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

And how do you know this?

By all accounts, the £2m looks like a gift to be shared amongst all 42 league clubs equally.

Let’s not seethe just because the guy is a Jambo. To me, it appears to be a generous and - yes - philanthropic gesture.

Is it not a tax dodge though or is that too black and white?

[stuart-farquhar]

He donates to Hearts because he is a wealthy man who supports hearts. His gifts to them is not philanthropist, it is an indulgence and his so called philanthropic gesture to Scottish football is to benefit Hearts and nothing else.

That's pretty much right. Giving money to a club you support, no matter that the club might be a snarling bunch of entitled twats and twatettes in an imagined world of enlarged self importance is just being a supporter. But it ain't no philanthropic gesture.

[scm70nyd1973]

The revelation this week that Doncaster approached other SPFL clubs this for their views on a 14 team leagues gives the impression this was on the back of a meeting with the benefactor who is backing Hearts. Budge said this was a ‘no strings’ donation. I think not. Doncaster lost all the credibility he had overseeing this farce for the last 3 months. However, he has surpassed himself by smelling the Hearts benefactors money and canvassing support for reconstruction, when previously he had absolutely no interest in it.

My line of thinking is that when AB's latest ground breaking new league reconstruction submission was accompanied by an offer to introduce a benefactor to Scottish Football as a whole, this surely can only be regarded as bribery (alleged of course 🤔) . Not the usual bribery (by legal definition) that we are used to but bribery by stealth, bribery by psychology, bribery by passing it under the radar and bribery with no paper or money trail.

It stinks but it could be regarded as smart tactics - I wonder who has given her all this advice - seems to be working though. I just can't believe that there have been no casual background chats about how the Poppy Thieves can be helped by all this brokering - the unwritten and undisclosed fee being a place in the top league.

At the very least it will have played mind games with some clubs who were thinking about a "no" vote. Now they might not want to upset the said PTs by way of voting against their plan as - parallel to this - they might also upset the benefactor. They might think that the offer to supply cash with no repayments due might disappear if a "no" vote is cast.

Not that I want this dragged out any longer but maybe if the payments - that are supposedly going to be going to the clubs - are made now and then the votes on reconstruction are lodged after the money is in their bank accounts then matters would be more fair for all. If this is suggested and the benefactor renagues then we will know the real story.

Then the "doomed to fail" litigation will be initiated !

Rant over 😄

PS - for what it is worth I think that it is unfair that the PTs are to (hopefully) be relegated in such circumstances (😂) - but I really don't give a flying one and it has been fun, it fills me with some warmth and you can't beat a bit of schadenfreude 🤗

[hibbyfraelibby]

Aye fine but are they Doon yet 😗

They've been down for weeks and are as likely to resurface as the Kursk...

[hibbyfraelibby]

Surprised they didn’t name the stand after him

I can see it now. The Neon sign lighting up for the first time...The Anderson Shelter

[greenpaper55]

I can see it now. The Neon sign lighting up for the first time...The Anderson Shelter

Ha ha , brilliant. Maybe they will "raid" clubs for new players !

[Andy74]

Wow. How much do you think it'll be worth?

£1

[Wakeyhibee]

I would look at it positively. Going for Europe is more exciting than thinking the top six is an achievement. Four different teams have won the Belgian title in the past decade - should have been 5 but Standard Liege blew it and finished runner up on three occasions in that time.
There is also the small fact of the rise of Belgian football overall since they adopted this model and started to churn out international class footballers at an increasing rate. Anyone any idea where Belgium are in the FIFA world rankings?

I have had a decent look at the set up and the one slightly different, previous to the current set up. Their make up in teams is different with 5 or 6 top teams a lot closer than ours, which may make it work at the top end.

The things I don't like is the halving of points before re-starting after the split. It means teams who have built up a lead can lose it and that has happened whereby if the points carried forward, it wouldn't have been possible, so kind of taking away the significance of the points you've gained. Would Standard have won it if the points weren't halved? I only looked at 5th/6th.

I would guess a lot of teams will play for 7th to 9th rather than go for 6th. A high seeding in your play off group means a lot of easier games until the final 2 sudden deaths. That looks preferable than playing top teams 10 times to jump 2 places (the same number games in the play off group).

It's really hard to compare the two countries as Belgium is twice the size population and travel is a damn site easier and shorter but attendances don't seem to have increased massively, no more than ours in the same period. Scotland overall is still better supported if not in greater depth. They do have a great International side right now but they've been good under both set-ups so I'm not sure if that is down to this either.

I see some positives but I don't think it's a good fit for ours.

[Hibeesmad]

Once this reconstruction pish is put to bed tomorrow, hopefully we can look towards publishing fixtures for the premiership next season. The last two seasons's fixtures have been released on the 21st and 15th June.

[Jim44]

And how do you know this?

By all accounts, the £2m looks like a gift to be shared amongst all 42 league clubs equally.

Let’s not seethe just because the guy is a Jambo. To me, it appears to be a generous and - yes - philanthropic gesture.

That’s me tellt aff! :greengrin Well, I hope you’re right and that, when the final nail goes in their coffin, he has no regrets. If they somehow do a Houdini act and escape from the barrel just before it goes over the waterfall, I’m sure he’ll glibly consider it money well spent.

[Crazyhorse]

I have had a decent look at the set up and the one slightly different, previous to the current set up. Their make up in teams is different with 5 or 6 top teams a lot closer than ours, which may make it work at the top end.

The things I don't like is the halving of points before re-starting after the split. It means teams who have built up a lead can lose it and that has happened whereby if the points carried forward, it wouldn't have been possible, so kind of taking away the significance of the points you've gained. Would Standard have won it if the points weren't halved? I only looked at 5th/6th.

I would guess a lot of teams will play for 7th to 9th rather than go for 6th. A high seeding in your play off group means a lot of easier games until the final 2 sudden deaths. That looks preferable than playing top teams 10 times to jump 2 places (the same number games in the play off group).

It's really hard to compare the two countries as Belgium is twice the size population and travel is a damn site easier and shorter but attendances don't seem to have increased massively, no more than ours in the same period. Scotland overall is still better supported if not in greater depth. They do have a great International side right now but they've been good under both set-ups so I'm not sure if that is down to this either.

I see some positives but I don't think it's a good fit for ours.

You are right of course there are key differences - Celtc and Sevco skew things in Scottish football. Attendance wise and trophy wise (although I expect only the green arse cheek to win anything in the next decade). I think one thing the current system doesn’t seem to do well is bring enough talent through to play at the top level - the mighty John McGinn excluded!
I’m enjoying laughing at the jambos as much as anyone else at the minute but playing in a competition where the winner is known before the start is not a healthy sport.

[Wakeyhibee]

And how do you know this?

By all accounts, the £2m looks like a gift to be shared amongst all 42 league clubs equally.

Let’s not seethe just because the guy is a Jambo. To me, it appears to be a generous and - yes - philanthropic gesture.

On the face it, I would agree. The timing is extremely suspicious though and that's putting it mildly. I'm just wondering if the difference in the figures quoted, £2.75m, will be offered as a further "donation". This along with saved parachute payments could be to pay for the 13th/14th prize fund for 2 years. It's bang on what would be required to sit between 12th now and the Championship winners without affecting any other places. That would make the financial argument a lot easier.

Just a hunch, seems odd the figure quoted is then more than halved. Also on air this fund was for lower division clubs, Budge says it, BM says it back and it's on the strap line of the podcast. What happened there?

Again I smell a rat.

[vuefrom1875]

They've been down for weeks and are as likely to resurface as the Kursk...

Glad that's cleared up...thanks buddy 😎

[Sammy7nil]

You are right of course there are key differences - Celtc and Sevco skew things in Scottish football. Attendance wise and trophy wise (although I expect only the green arse cheek to win anything in the next decade). I think one thing the current system doesn’t seem to do well is bring enough talent through to play at the top level - the might John McGinn exclude!
I’m enjoying laughing at the jambos as much as anyone else at the minute but playing in a competition where the winner is known before the start is not a healthy sport.

I agree of course but Bayern are about to win 8 in a row Juve six that's a guess PSG how many in a row? And bar one season Barca or Real for how many years ? It is the same across Europe.

[Juniper Greens]

Are you suggesting a knockout tournament to decide the league champions where the 1st 30 matches are to decide who qualifies and the seeding?

Yep. American style playoffs

[Wakeyhibee]

You are right of course there are key differences - Celtc and Sevco skew things in Scottish football. Attendance wise and trophy wise (although I expect only the green arse cheek to win anything in the next decade). I think one thing the current system doesn’t seem to do well is bring enough talent through to play at the top level - the might John McGinn exclude!
I’m enjoying laughing at the jambos as much as anyone else at the minute but playing in a competition where the winner is known before the start is not a healthy sport.

Agree with the talent point definitely, not sure whether Sevco wont have a say in the next 5 years though. If you know me previously in recon discussions years back, I've always been for 18 and playing twice only for a number of reasons.

This can't be done now because of the TV and money. Unfortunately this is probably as good as it gets with a league this size. Somewhere in between doesn't sit well with me, even more so now :greengrin As you say the league for us and others is all about, top 6, euro spot, don't go down. Whilst it is and can still be exciting, it's not healthy long term.

[Joe6-2]

As a novelty factor, we could sacrifice a European spot to be reserved for one of the bottom four. Bottom gets relegated, second bottom plays off to stay up and the other two play off for a euro spot. Magic stuff 😀

Magic mushroom stuff 😂

[tamig]

Although they stopped regular production in 2001 RBS still issue about 15,000 £1 notes a year. There’s over 17 million still in circulation. They were never officially withdrawn.

There’s a 2001 RBS one on ebay for £2.99 just now. I didn’t think they still printed them. Is it the 2001 version that’s still printed?

[majorhibs]

How about some statto comes across wi figures for league placings BEFORE eufa changed European competitions to suit big teams, & after stats, cos IMO since eufa changed it it was MUCH MUCH fairer & even, but we aw ken now it’s just for the biggest money boys, while the wee teams drop ever mair behind!

[CB_NO3]

I would look at it positively. Going for Europe is more exciting than thinking the top six is an achievement. Four different teams have won the Belgian title in the past decade - should have been 5 but Standard Liege blew it and finished runner up on three occasions in that time.
There is also the small fact of the rise of Belgian football overall since they adopted this model and started to churn out international class footballers at an increasing rate. Anyone any idea where Belgium are in the FIFA world rankings?

How many of the Belgian team actually play in Belgium? Most play in England, Spain, Italy and Germany.

[GreenPJ]

How many of the Belgian team actually play in Belgium? Most play in England, Spain, Italy and Germany.

So? They have a domestic league that is exciting and unpredictable and they have an international team that is knocking on the door of winning something. Ok the domestic clubs might not do overly well in Europe but as has already been pointed out, other than the odd trip away no one outside of the larger clubs and from the larger leagues will ever do anything significant in Europe.

[mal]

The Belgian format is the most ridiculous I've heard yet. I've read the Wikipedia article several times and I still can't understand it. It does sounds as if you could be both automatically relegated by finishing 16th but qualify for Europe by winning the Europa playoff. You could also finish 6th in division two and qualify for Europe the same way. But if you finish 6th in the Championship playoff you don't even get to participate in the Europa playoff. Deranged.

[greenginger]

They've been down for weeks and are as likely to resurface as the Kursk...


Don’t count your chickens, they used to be owned by a submariner don’t ya know. :greengrin

[Waxy]

Any move to 14 or 16 and it gets stupid, complicated, unbalanced and unfair.
If we had to we’d might as well move up to 18 or 20 and just play twice.

[CB_NO3]

So? They have a domestic league that is exciting and unpredictable and they have an international team that is knocking on the door of winning something. Ok the domestic clubs might not do overly well in Europe but as has already been pointed out, other than the odd trip away no one outside of the larger clubs and from the larger leagues will ever do anything significant in Europe.

I am not saying its not exciting, looks ok tbh. The poster highlighted that Belgium are ranked number 1 in the world and the point I was making is it doesn't matter if their league has 5 teams or 25 teams cause hardly any of their 1st team play there.

[04Sauzee]

Any move to 14 or 16 and it gets stupid, complicated, unbalanced and unfair.
If we had to we’d might as well move up to 18 or 20 and just play twice.

18 is about the only format that woukd work with no split and uneven home and away games. Unfortunately we don't have enough big teams in Scotland at the moment.

[Spike Mandela]

18 is about the only format that woukd work with no split and uneven home and away games. Unfortunately we don't have enough big teams in Scotland at the moment.

If you add another 6 from the Championship to the current setup at least four of these clubs would have bigger fan bases than some currently in the Premiership.

If reconstruction HAD to be done this would be my choice but is dead in the water without 4 Rangers, Celtic games.

[Since452]

Hopefully today is the day it's finally knocked on the head for good

[Pete]

5pm deadline for clubs to reply. I hope ours is something along the line of

'No. Because it's stupid'.

[JimBHibees]

5pm deadline for clubs to reply. I hope ours is something along the line of

'No. Because it's stupid'.

I hope it's No and that vote will remain the same irrespective of how reconstruction is presented.

[JeMeSouviens]

The Belgian format is the most ridiculous I've heard yet. I've read the Wikipedia article several times and I still can't understand it. It does sounds as if you could be both automatically relegated by finishing 16th but qualify for Europe by winning the Europa playoff. You could also finish 6th in division two and qualify for Europe the same way. But if you finish 6th in the Championship playoff you don't even get to participate in the Europa playoff. Deranged.

It's mental. :agree:

And not likely to last, as they expect the Belgian and Dutch leagues to merge by 2025.

[Pete]

I hope it's No and that vote will remain the same irrespective of how reconstruction is presented.

Especially now it's become crystal clear that Budges only care is keeping Hearts in the top flight and the rest of the leagues? They can do what they like.

Any sympathy I had for them has long since evaporated. They'll be fine financially, the lower leagues will be ok too thanks to this philanthropist, so let's just get on with it.

[Crazyhorse]

How many of the Belgian team actually play in Belgium? Most play in England, Spain, Italy and Germany.

Many of those players earned their spurs in the Belgian league as younger players before earning big moves abroad. Having lived there for a time in the 80s in Leuven and again 2011-13 in Antwerp I’ve always had an eye on Belgian football. Of the current national squad I can think of:
De Bruyne played and won title at Genk
Courtois was in the same team as De Bruyne at Genk
Benteke played and won title at Standard Liege
Lukaku played for Anderlecht and I think won the title there.
Others like Mignolet and Witsel also were very successful in the Belgian league before earning big moves abroad. Probably some others too but my point is many world class players were nurtured in the Belgian league. And while the set up may seem a bit odd to us and doesn’t seem appealing to many on here it does bring through a lot of talent.

[Ozyhibby]

Nookie Bear
Gorgie Über Alles
Nookie Bear
Paid Member

20,158 posts
Posted 23 minutes ago
The most shocking aspect of all this has been the fact that not one club- except us and the benefactor we introduced - has shown the slightest desire to save the Scottish game for the short and medium term.


I had zero respect for our rivals anyway but any respect I had for smaller teams trying to get by has well and truly gone.


I am so angry at them all that I don’t trust myself to attend a game for some time so it’s probably just as well we will not be allowed !


Again no irony how the **** are they trying to save Scottish football? Confused dot com :greengrin

Not to mention that it is us that are represented on every one of the committees which are looking at how we restart the game. It’s us who are looking at hub venues, socially distanced crowds, training ground procedures etc. All they are doing is whining like little kids about how unfair everything is.


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[Ozyhibby]

No thanks, just had a look. your still in a playoff for Europe no matter where you finish.

10 points clear of rivals at the split and now you're only 5

More chance of titles being shared around though and god knows Scottish football could do with that. I like their model. I would make it a stipulation that only full time teams could be promoted to the top league though.


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[Crazyhorse]

I am not saying its not exciting, looks ok tbh. The poster highlighted that Belgium are ranked number 1 in the world and the point I was making is it doesn't matter if their league has 5 teams or 25 teams cause hardly any of their 1st team play there.

CB see my other reply. Many Belgian fans did see those world class players playing for their own teams before they went to Spain or England or Germany.

[CB_NO3]

Many of those players earned their spurs in the Belgian league as younger players before earning big moves abroad. Having lived there for a time in the 80s in Leuven and again 2011-13 in Antwerp I’ve always had an eye on Belgian football. Of the current national squad I can think of:
De Bruyne played and won title at Genk
Courtois was in the same team as De Bruyne at Genk
Benteke played and won title at Standard Liege
Lukaku played for Anderlecht and I think won the title there.
Others like Mignolet and Witsel also were very successful in the Belgian league before earning big moves abroad. Probably some others too but my point is many world class players were nurtured in the Belgian league. And while the set up may seem a bit odd to us and doesn’t seem appealing to many on here it does bring through a lot of talent.

I totally get that but if it was a league of 10 or 20 would that talent not exist?

The players are top class players and I am not doubting that but I don't think its to do with the format of the league.

De Bruyne, Lukaku and so on would still be about wether it was a league of 16, 10 or 20.

[Spike Mandela]

I expect a statement from Doncaster along the lines of “ constructive and positive views expressed today with a willingness to move Scottish football forward in a manner that suits everybody”

There will then be more financial inducements in the coming week and a behind closed doors focus on those clubs they think they can accomodate in sufficient fashion to change their vote.

[MacGruber]

5pm deadline for clubs to reply. I hope ours is something along the line of

'No. Because it's stupid'.

Yep

Or

No.
&
How to overcome objection - 14 to be the 12 prem teams plus Inverness & Dundee. Any other Chsmpionship team can earn promotion on the pitch

[weecounty hibby]

More chance of titles being shared around though and god knows Scottish football could do with that. I like their model. I would make it a stipulation that only full time teams could be promoted to the top league though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There is more chance of me being elected the next Pope than there is of any other club bar celtic or rangers winning the league in Scotland any time soon. And it is the same in every league in Europe. Biggest teams with most money win the league, no matter how the league is set up or how many are in it

[Since452]

I expect a statement from Doncaster along the lines of “ constructive and positive views expressed today with a willingness to move Scottish football forward in a manner that suits everybody”

There will then be more financial inducements in the coming week and a behind closed doors focus on those clubs they think they can accomodate in sufficient fashion to change their vote.

Exactly what I think

[04Sauzee]

I expect a statement from Doncaster along the lines of “ constructive and positive views expressed today with a willingness to move Scottish football forward in a manner that suits everybody”

There will then be more financial inducements in the coming week and a behind closed doors focus on those clubs they think they can accomodate in sufficient fashion to change their vote.

Football season starts in 8 weeks better get a move on

[mal]

More chance of titles being shared around though and god knows Scottish football could do with that. I like their model. I would make it a stipulation that only full time teams could be promoted to the top league though.
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But you can "win" the title having, over the course of the season, accrued fewer points than teams below you even though you have played exactly the same fixtures. That's just nuts.

[we are hibs]

The season starts in 8 weeks. At some stage everyone is going to have to get a grip and move on. Clubs should really start saying this too. The whole point of ending the season early was to avoid weeks of uncertainty and all this has done is cause weeks of uncertainty. Its beyond a farce.

[rodhibs55]

5pm deadline for clubs to reply. I hope ours is something along the line of

'No. Because it's stupid'.

Agreed

[Springbank]

I expect a statement from Doncaster along the lines of “ constructive and positive views expressed today with a willingness to move Scottish football forward in a manner that suits everybody”

There will then be more financial inducements in the coming week and a behind closed doors focus on those clubs they think they can accomodate in sufficient fashion to change their vote.

I think Aberdeen's opposition to it will be the quick death knell today, actually.

I'd be more expecting a statement from ND saying "clear there is appetite for further discussion, but this cannot be accomplished in the timescales we have to work with", then announcing a panel to look at plans for season 2021/22 onwards

That way Budge can work on an expanded top flight for this time next year, meaning her EH11 duds have not just one but potentially 2 or 3 promotion places to aim for during the upcoming season.

[Ozyhibby]

There is more chance of me being elected the next Pope than there is of any other club bar celtic or rangers winning the league in Scotland any time soon. And it is the same in every league in Europe. Biggest teams with most money win the league, no matter how the league is set up or how many are in it

Belgian league has had 5 different champions in the last 10 years. How many have we had?


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[Ozyhibby]

But you can "win" the title having, over the course of the season, accrued fewer points than teams below you even though you have played exactly the same fixtures. That's just nuts.

Teams will need to make sure they can finish strongly. Better than watching Celtic stroll it every year. The work done in the first half of the season is still very important. Just brings a bit of excitement to the game, which is good for bringing in sponsors and tv revenue.


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[EI255]

Is today the day we find out that reconstruction has failed, if the lower league clubs vote against?

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[JimBHibees]

Especially now it's become crystal clear that Budges only care is keeping Hearts in the top flight and the rest of the leagues? They can do what they like.

Any sympathy I had for them has long since evaporated. They'll be fine financially, the lower leagues will be ok too thanks to this philanthropist, so let's just get on with it.

Agree completely

[EI255]

I think Aberdeen's opposition to it will be the quick death knell today, actually.

I'd be more expecting a statement from ND saying "clear there is appetite for further discussion, but this cannot be accomplished in the timescales we have to work with", then announcing a panel to look at plans for season 2021/22 onwards

That way Budge can work on an expanded top flight for this time next year, meaning her EH11 duds have not just one but potentially 2 or 3 promotion places to aim for during the upcoming season.Would LOVE to see her ugly sagging face after her epic PLAN FAILS

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[weecounty hibby]

Belgian league has had 5 different champions in the last 10 years. How many have we had?


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We have had 1 as you know well. Belgium has teams who are broadly the same size, Anderlecht, Brugge, Liege with the next batch not all that far behind. And surprise surprise the Belgian league winners are usually Anderlecht Brugge Liege with others thrown in intermittently. We have a situation where two clubs are so far ahead of the rest that it will be them all the time.
Holland is the same, Spain is the same, Germany is the same, Italy is the same

[Carheenlea]

Emails should all be landed. Bound to be a few attention seekers leaving it till last minute but I’m feeling pretty confident the SPFL’s inbox has already received enough correspondence to render the proposals dead.

What happens next if this is the case? Budge sent away to come up with another proposal by end of next week and clubs asked to consider and return their thoughts the following week? Time must be about up for any reconstruction in time what with players returning to training next week.

Reconstruction needs to be taken off the table, concentrate all efforts into resuming competitive domestic football and if the will of enough clubs is still there, return to the discussion at a later date early in New Year to explore any proposals. Perhaps with alternative club administrators to the ones who have failed so far to find a favourable proposal.

[Ozyhibby]

We have had 1 as you know well. Belgium has teams who are broadly the same size, Anderlecht, Brugge, Liege with the next batch not all that far behind. And surprise surprise the Belgian league winners are usually Anderlecht Brugge Liege with others thrown in intermittently. We have a situation where two clubs are so far ahead of the rest that it will be them all the time.
Holland is the same, Spain is the same, Germany is the same, Italy is the same

Wonder if those clubs are not that far behind because they have a chance of winning something?


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[Onion]

5pm deadline for clubs to reply. I hope ours is something along the line of

'No. Because it's stupid'.

Another SPFL vote deadline. What can go wrong :rolleyes:

[Peevemor]

5pm deadline for clubs to reply. I hope ours is something along the line of

'No. Because it's stupid'.

Or "Hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha...WTF?"

[theonlywayisup]

Chelsea have been named winners of the Women's Super League title on a points-per-game ratio, while Liverpool have been relegated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52907395

Wonder if the Liverpool ladies will accept their fate.

[Ozyhibby]

Chelsea have been named winners of the Women's Super League title on a points-per-game ratio, while Liverpool have been relegated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52907395

Wonder if the Liverpool ladies will accept their fate.

Class action with the Hearts. Special relationship and all that.[emoji23]


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[Crazyhorse]

But you can "win" the title having, over the course of the season, accrued fewer points than teams below you even though you have played exactly the same fixtures. That's just nuts.

That’s just different Mal.

[mal]

Teams will need to make sure they can finish strongly. Better than watching Celtic stroll it every year. The work done in the first half of the season is still very important. Just brings a bit of excitement to the game, which is good for bringing in sponsors and tv revenue.
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Finishing the season with 1st place v 12th place in a one-off Title/Relegation playoff would bring excitement to the game. And make a nonsense of it...

[weecounty hibby]

Wonder if those clubs are not that far behind because they have a chance of winning something?


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I think it's more likely that it's because they don't have thousands of folk from Liege and Brugge etc going to Brussels each week to watch Anderlecht and more folk watch their local team. This means that average attendances are much closer than in Scotland. We go from 55/60k to the next best being us at about 17/18k

[The Harp Awakes]

Chelsea have been named winners of the Women's Super League title on a points-per-game ratio, while Liverpool have been relegated.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52907395

Wonder if the Liverpool ladies will accept their fate.

I think Liverpool would have have too much class to follow the coercion, bully boy, bribe and litigation route the jumbos have adopted.

[Spike Mandela]

I think Aberdeen's opposition to it will be the quick death knell today, actually.

I'd be more expecting a statement from ND saying "clear there is appetite for further discussion, but this cannot be accomplished in the timescales we have to work with", then announcing a panel to look at plans for season 2021/22 onwards

That way Budge can work on an expanded top flight for this time next year, meaning her EH11 duds have not just one but potentially 2 or 3 promotion places to aim for during the upcoming season.

It would be good to agree a proposal for what to do in the event of the league being finished early next season should covid 19 disrupt things again. Would save us going through this farce again.

I suggest if the same thing happens next year to have no relegation and no promotion.😎

[nonshinyfinish]

Or "Hahahahahahahhahahahahahahahahahahahaha...WTF?"

Or "We fully support the proposed reconstruction with only one minor alteration: Heart of Midlothian must permanently rename themselves FC Sh*tebag."

[Crazyhorse]

We have had 1 as you know well. Belgium has teams who are broadly the same size, Anderlecht, Brugge, Liege with the next batch not all that far behind. And surprise surprise the Belgian league winners are usually Anderlecht Brugge Liege with others thrown in intermittently. We have a situation where two clubs are so far ahead of the rest that it will be them all the time.
Holland is the same, Spain is the same, Germany is the same, Italy is the same

Genk and Ghent also came through to join that traditional big three.

Belgian football was in the doldrums in the first decade of this century. The league had become stale with nothing much to play for for most teams by the second half of the season and the national team wasn’t qualifying for international tournaments any more.
They decided on a radical shake up and 10 years later they have the most exciting end of season in Europe every year where young talented players get a change to play in pressure games and the national team is number 1 in the world. The two things might be related, I think they are, but I’m always ready to acknowledge that there might be other factors to be taken into account.

[Caversham Green]

5pm deadline for clubs to reply. I hope ours is something along the line of

'No. Because it's stupid'.

I hope Dundee have replied that they'd agree to it if it was three up one down.

[FilipinoHibs]

Agree completely

50k each is not going to do much especially for the championship clubs.

[JimBHibees]

Genk and Ghent also came through to join that traditional big three.

Belgian football was in the doldrums in the first decade of this century. The league had become stale with nothing much to play for for most teams by the second half of the season and the national team wasn’t qualifying for international tournaments any more.
They decided on a radical shake up and 10 years later they have the most exciting end of season in Europe every year where young talented players get a change to play in pressure games and the national team is number 1 in the world. The two things might be related, I think they are, but I’m always ready to acknowledge that there might be other factors to be taken into account.

I think most observers seemed to think the way they reshaped their youth football helped significantly. They play kids teams not based on age but on physical size with the thought that they develop technically rather than bigger kids overpowering rather than outplaying smaller rivals.

[theonlywayisup]

Genk and Ghent also came through to join that traditional big three.

Belgian football was in the doldrums in the first decade of this century. The league had become stale with nothing much to play for for most teams by the second half of the season and the national team wasn’t qualifying for international tournaments any more.
They decided on a radical shake up and 10 years later they have the most exciting end of season in Europe every year where young talented players get a change to play in pressure games and the national team is number 1 in the world. The two things might be related, I think they are, but I’m always ready to acknowledge that there might be other factors to be taken into account.

I'm not 100% convinced, but then again IMO football in Scotland has declined since The Rangers started paying excessive amounts of money to buy league titles. Until the mid-80s, we had Aberdeen and Dundee United winning the Premier League and even Hertz getting with 10 minutes of winning it. So possibly 5 teams capable of winning it. We had some good quality Scottish players coming through from youth level and were doing well in European competitions. That all died when The Rangers, in their opinion, 'saved' Scottish Football, when in fact the opposite is true.

I started a thread a few weeks ago about a radical shake up of Scottish Football. I still believe one is needed. Maybe we could become as good as Belgium, but not if we support the status quo or accept re-construction just for the sake of it.

[Ozyhibby]

I think it's more likely that it's because they don't have thousands of folk from Liege and Brugge etc going to Brussels each week to watch Anderlecht and more folk watch their local team. This means that average attendances are much closer than in Scotland. We go from 55/60k to the next best being us at about 17/18k

Maybe it’s time we gave the glory hunters something a little closer to home to follow then?


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[MrSmith]

End reconstruction talks today by rejecting for this season and then, begin positive talks to revamp and reconstruct all football in Scotland for 2021/22.

[Ozyhibby]

End reconstruction talks today by rejecting for this season and then, begin positive talks to revamp and reconstruct all football in Scotland for 2021/22.

[emoji106]


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[EskbankHibby]

I think Liverpool would have have too much class to follow the coercion, bully boy, bribe and litigation route the jumbos have adopted.

Spot on.

https://www.liverpoolfc.com/news/women/397946-liverpool-fc-statement-on-women-s-super-league-decision

[Irish_Steve]

It`s not actually a proper vote today though, is it - it`s just whether or not you want to accept the proposals, the vote has yet to come - how ******g long can this be spun out for??

[Andy74]

Maybe it’s time we gave the glory hunters something a little closer to home to follow then?


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Bigotry?

Because that's the big differentiator here - we aren't just talking about football success they way then can in other countries unfortunately.

[GreenPJ]

End reconstruction talks today by rejecting for this season and then, begin positive talks to revamp and reconstruct all football in Scotland for 2021/22.

:agree:

[Phil MaGlass]

If ever there was a time to set in motion the total overhaul and revamp of the Scottish game, then it is now, even if it is to the detriment of the so called big 2, sacrifices and input has to come from all quarters, if that means a 14 team league, sellik and huns actually putting money into lower league football then it needs to be done. Christ it will benefit ua all in the long term. Ajax have ploughed millions of their own money into clubs changing to grass from artificial pitches. Theres a willingness in Holland to help each other, its not to help one club, but all clubs, Dutch football will flourish especially if their league amalgimates with the Belgian league(imo).
We need to put aside our rivalries and work on the GREATER good of the game.
Lets see a 12-20 year plan and go for it, some of the SKY money should be put aside for it.

[Peevemor]

It`s not actually a proper vote today though, is it - it`s just whether or not you want to accept the proposals, the vote has yet to come - how ******g long can this be spun out for??

Hopefully enough clubs will state that they're against any restructuring at the present time that the thing will be knocked on the head once and for all.

[RoxburghHibs]

End reconstruction talks today by rejecting for this season and then, begin positive talks to revamp and reconstruct all football in Scotland for 2021/22.

Exactly this!

If these reconstruction talks are for the good of our game then that is what should happen. If these talks are so Hearts can gain access back into the top flight they will continue to push for this now.

[KDY Hibs]

ive got a bad feeling about this, hopefully I'm wrong!

[Waxy]

End reconstruction talks today by rejecting for this season and then, begin positive talks to revamp and reconstruct all football in Scotland for 2021/22.

Do we actually need the league reconstructed though?
The leagues have been pretty exciting the way they are.
Just a team trying to use the situation to get out of relegation, not caring it would leave the league a lot worse and put the cost on another two clubs at a later date.
Been easy to see through them.

[Peevemor]

If ever there was a time to set in motion the total overhaul and revamp of the Scottish game, then it is now, even if it is to the detriment of the so called big 2, sacrifices and input has to come from all quarters, if that means a 14 team league, sellik and huns actually putting money into lower league football then it needs to be done. Christ it will benefit ua all in the long term. Ajax have ploughed millions of their own money into clubs changing to grass from artificial pitches. Theres a willingness in Holland to help each other, its not to help one club, but all clubs, Dutch football will flourish especially if their league amalgimates with the Belgian league(imo).
We need to put aside our rivalries and work on the GREATER good of the game.
Lets see a 12-20 year plan and go for it, some of the SKY money should be put aside for it.

I'm sorry but I couldn't disagree more. There's too much uncertainty about when each league will be able to start and under what conditions (paying customers, etc.).

Even the most brilliant plan ever formulated could fail.

[cabbageandribs1875]

i bet ND is updating that budge woman as each e-mail arrives

[Carheenlea]

Do we actually need the league reconstructed though?
The leagues have been pretty exciting the way they are.
Just a team trying to use the situation to get out of relegation, not caring it would leave the league a lot worse and put the cost on another two clubs at a later date.
Been easy to see through them.

Clubs who are seeking reconstruction for their own gain will be smoked out if the subject arises again at a later date in mid season. Those shouting loudest right now will be muted somewhat I guess.

[TT07]

I think most observers seemed to think the way they reshaped their youth football helped significantly. They play kids teams not based on age but on physical size with the thought that they develop technically rather than bigger kids overpowering rather than outplaying smaller rivals.
That's how Nee Zealand youth rugby is structured they belive in improving the basic skillsets as priority over physicality. There must be something in it as the All Blacks have been the benchmark for decades. Radical change rather than farting around adjusting league sizes to accomodate the unskilled.

[MrSmith]

Do we actually need the league reconstructed though?
The leagues have been pretty exciting the way they are.
Just a team trying to use the situation to get out of relegation, not caring it would leave the league a lot worse and put the cost on another two clubs at a later date.
Been easy to see through them.

In my opinion, yes. Scottish football has stood still for years and is clearly rotten to the core when an investment manager can offer monies that would see his club remain in the top league.

And talking about the top league, there is exactly where the problem lays, insular money grabbing clubs with little thought for the rest of football in Scotland. Is it any wonder our clubs and national team are underachievers on the world stage?

Bigotry plays a role in gaining Sky contracts while insidious entitled clubs think they are they ones who matter.

I want change but proper well thought out and managed change that will see football in Scotland flourish. Kids out in the street with a ball instead of playing FIFA talking about their first team being Man U or Chelsea. We have lost plot here in Scotland through too much pandering to finance and the uglies.

[Col2]

I wonder if Hibs will make a statement later today?

They have to distance themselves and will hope it’s overwhelming feeling by other clubs to kick it into touch but if not they can’t be implicated with the rest given the impact on the club (good will, season ticket sales etc)

[Greenworld]

Emails should all be landed. Bound to be a few attention seekers leaving it till last minute but I’m feeling pretty confident the SPFL’s inbox has already received enough correspondence to render the proposals dead.

What happens next if this is the case? Budge sent away to come up with another proposal by end of next week and clubs asked to consider and return their thoughts the following week? Time must be about up for any reconstruction in time what with players returning to training next week.

Reconstruction needs to be taken off the table, concentrate all efforts into resuming competitive domestic football and if the will of enough clubs is still there, return to the discussion at a later date early in New Year to explore any proposals. Perhaps with alternative club administrators to the ones who have failed so far to find a favourable proposal.I'm with you there is no reason to wait till 5pm .
I would think clubs will be getting informed of the rough lay of the land first.
Hopefully an announcement for fans later today.
This cannot go on beyond today.

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[EI255]

After today, I hope Budge can see sense (ha) and disappear for a bit. She's really bored the pants off Scottish fitbaw over the last few weeks. As I've said before, she should have thought a lot better about where to stick her money when she became Queen of Fartz.

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[EI255]

I'm with you there is no reason to wait till 5pm .
I would think clubs will be getting informed of the rough lay of the land first.
Hopefully an announcement for fans later today.
This cannot go on beyond today.

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using TapatalkHear hear [emoji106]

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[KDY Hibs]

Tom English hinting breaking news on tomorrow Sportsound(mentioned it on today's podcast) I'm nervous!

[04Sauzee]

Tom English hinting breaking news on tomorrow Sportsound(mentioned it on today's podcast) I'm nervous!

Budge must have been on the phone to him.

[Jim44]

I'm with you there is no reason to wait till 5pm .
I would think clubs will be getting informed of the rough lay of the land first.
Hopefully an announcement for fans later today.
This cannot go on beyond today.

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I think it will.
I think enough clubs will declare some sort of interest in reconstruction to allow Doncaster the right to keep the issue open and resolve any problem areas. What other reasons could there be for not having a final vote today?

[KeithTheHibby]

Tom English hinting breaking news on tomorrow Sportsound(mentioned it on today's podcast) I'm nervous!

Well one thing for sure is he wont know the outcome of today as it's only the back of 1!

[Ronniekirk]

Tom English hinting breaking news on tomorrow Sportsound(mentioned it on today's podcast) I'm nervous!

Well if it’s breaking news why wait till tomorrow or is it not Broken yet
Given they set the deadline fir 5 pm tonight I would think they will then be looking at any room fir manoeuvre or issues that can be pursued a further to get more clubs on board if that’s possible
So I don’t expected any clear cut announcement today
But could be wrong


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[Real Emerald]

Tom English hinting breaking news on tomorrow Sportsound(mentioned it on today's podcast) I'm nervous!

No way will this get reported by Sportsound, it will be a direct statement from the SPFL.

[KDY Hibs]

Well one thing for sure is he wont know the outcome of today as it's only the back of 1!

Hope your right, just get a feeling this is a stitch up!

[KeithTheHibby]

Aberdeen have already publicly stated they won't support reconstruction. That only leaves 1 other club from 11 including ourselves, surely the other 11 won't vote this through??

[KDY Hibs]

Aberdeen have already publicly stated they won't support reconstruction. That only leaves 1 other club from 11 including ourselves, surely the other 11 won't vote this through??

Hope not!

[bingo70]

Aberdeen have already publicly stated they won't support reconstruction. That only leaves 1 other club from 11 including ourselves, surely the other 11 won't vote this through??

Clubs have been known to change their mind though.

I want to hear what Hibs have to say on the issue.

[marinello59]

Tom English hinting breaking news on tomorrow Sportsound(mentioned it on today's podcast) I'm nervous!

Breaking news.....in 24 hours time? OK, maybe he can tell us how that works. :greengrin

[Kojock]

Well if it’s breaking news why wait till tomorrow or is it not Broken yet
Given they set the deadline fir 5 pm tonight I would think they will then be looking at any room fir manoeuvre or issues that can be pursued a further to get more clubs on board if that’s possible
So I don’t expected any clear cut announcement today
But could be wrong


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He said "from what Im hearing theres things bubbling and there will be news tomorrow". Take out of that what you will.

[KDY Hibs]

Breaking news.....in 24 hours time? OK, maybe he can tell us how that works. :greengrin

lol hopefully just a ploy to get some extra listeners!

[KeithTheHibby]

Clubs have been known to change their mind though.

I want to hear what Hibs have to say on the issue.

In the space of 24 hours? Dave Cormack was pretty adamant it wasn't for Aberdeen.

[Mon Dieu4]

If there is no definitive answer in the next day or so then Hibs and other clubs have to up the ante and explain that players are due in for training next week and the league is 8 weeks away from starting, it's already went on far too long as it is

[FilipinoHibs]

No way will this get reported by Sportsound, it will be a direct statement from the SPFL.

Budge has been told the proposal does not have enough support and will start legal action.

[Pete]

Well, there will be news either way tomorrow. Doesn't necessarily mean it will be clubs all agreeing to this. Clubs not agreeing will also be news.

The guy is just trying to get some attention

[Real Emerald]

Budge has been told the proposal does not have enough support and will start legal action.

That would fit the Tom English agenda perfectly TBH. 👍

[Waxy]

The last six or seven weeks have been groundhog day.
Reconstruction is meant to get binned, it drags on all week and by the friday something had gotten in the way.
Then we have to go through the whole weekend of radio Budge on heartsound and all the media mouthpieces regurgitating the same guff.

[Wakeyhibee]

More chance of titles being shared around though and god knows Scottish football could do with that. I like their model. I would make it a stipulation that only full time teams could be promoted to the top league though.


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The way things have been allowed to develop you could start everybody on 0 never mind half points after the split and I'd still know where my money would be.

It's far too contrived, get relegated then get into Europe !!! long shot I know but possible when in shouldn't be.

Might work in Belgium because they have 5 top teams that are a lot closer. Doesn't show in attendances either for a country that size with less travel issues.