NO to reconstruction

[Pete]

Honestly, WTF is going on?

I'm completely lost as to who is for and against reconstruction, how it would work and who would benefit.

Crazy, unprecedented times though.

[Clarence]

These articles are little more than click bait. It's in the interest of the tabloids to say one thing one minute and another the next. It keeps readers engaged and needing to know what is going to happen next, when it has largely already been decided. Expect to see another few ups and downs reported in the press before we kick off in the Prem in August and they kick off in the Championship some time after.

[seanshow]

So according to Iain McMenemy the latest proposal for league reconstruction will be decided at the premiership level, saving the lower leagues from tedious group zoom meetings with other ceo's and board members.

As it turned out it was fitting that Hibs cast the deciding vote out of the premiership clubs to end the spfl seeasons over a month ago (meaning the Aberdeen vote was not required) before Dundee changed their vote to finish the act.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/18373159.hibs-vote-yes-spfls-proposal-scrap-season/

Timing is everything, can we have a repeat please during the discussion of the latest Bagpuss proposal for reconstruction and end this thing.



Who knows the fun may only be starting.. next up the legal action - Deans v Spfl/uefa lol

[cocteautwin]

Not surprised you missed it, it was in amongst the long winded waffle of a proposal that the benefactors are supporting them for a further 5 years.

"Foundation of Hearts, has amazingly had over 800 additional/increased pledges. Our benefactors too, continue to stand behind the Club. They have committed to continue to support us, not just throughout this current crisis, but for the next 5 years. Strong clubs are essential for a strong League and a strong Hearts has a big part to play in this."

So the benefactor hasn’t disappeared at all then. Who’d have thunk Budge would be economical with the truth once again. The plea of poverty from Hearts back in March was just an attempt to offload a bunch of poor signings. Tasteless.

[FilipinoHibs]

So the benefactor hasn’t disappeared at all then. Who’d have thunk Budge would be economical with the truth once again. The plea of poverty from Hearts back in March was just an attempt to offload a bunch of poor signings. Tasteless.

Where is the benefactors money? According to CapitalGreen who knows Wallace the person who heads FOH, there is one benefactor and because of the economic crisis, Hearts will not be a priority and well down the list of causes he will be helping. Maybe he could provide some colour. But think it is more bluster from Budge.

[Waxy]

Honestly, WTF is going on?

I'm completely lost as to who is for and against reconstruction, how it would work and who would benefit.

Crazy, unprecedented times though.
The championship needs 8 votes to be for the reconstruction, only heart and ICT seem to be voting for it.
Nevermind that the premier will knock it down first.
We’ll get a media frenzy from now till the weekend saying the universe will explode if we dont keep hearts up.Clubs are all going to fold etc.
Wont happen. Football will be ok.
Hearts do nothing for Scottish football they can only do good for themselves. They are failing at the moment.

[Heisenberg]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/spfl-clubs-warned-failure-thrash-22097900

Not sure I like the tone of that article.

“And Doncaster will attempt to hammer home the message that a radical overhaul of the current league structure - and in particular the lower three leagues - is no longer an option but an absolute necessity.”

Good stuff, leave the Premiership as it is and restructure the lower leagues. Job done.

[HendoDelivered]

I think crowds will be at games in August or very shortly afterwards. They will be lower and socially distanced but there will be people in at games. And we’ll all be wearing masks.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Be good if you’re right. But personally, can’t see it.

[Barney McGrew]

The championship needs 8 votes to be for the reconstruction, only heart and ICT seem to be voting for it

I can’t even begin to understand why any championship team outside those two would vote for it - no promotion or relegation next season (which protects Hertz terrible squad for a second year) and then six teams relegated out it the following year to get back to where we are just now.

But it’s not a plan just to save Hertz, honest guv.

Its the most transparent bollocks they’ve ever come up with and I’m glad it looks like the rest of the clubs are seeing right through it.

[Greenworld]

The establishment club gets as much help as it wants from the media.
People in high places pulling strings like Lithuania.
Doncaster shouldn’t have opinions like this.’There’s certainly nothing wrong with the premier having 12.Something isnt right here. It’s probably just who wrote the article adding his own dramatic twists.In my opinion there is nothing in this story other than a little sensationalism.
The only true part is this is about the lower leagues. Again though i fully believe that once the meeting with scot gov have been had a new air of optimism will be had. Football will be back with the same 4 leagues and Hearts in the championship

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

[Iggy Pope]

Scottish football kinda sucks.

**** me, I’ve woken up in Connecticut or some place!

[CraigHibee]

Hearts - the narcissist's club

An over inflated sense of self entitlement and they don't believe they deserve to be getting relegated although they are bottom for a reason.

Do you think if this proposal gets booted out then poor old rubber face will come back with more plans "just because"

Sick of that bunch of mutants and i'm hoping the end result sees them dropping down where they belong

[Caversham Green]

The family Jambo, who has been really quiet lately, has got a stiffy. If Queen Ann's proposal fails, he thinks Hearts won't get relegated as Hamilton are going bust. "Have you not seen their accounts? He asks." They are 500k in debt and no means to pay it. So we are staying up."

I asked why Hearts would come back up and not Inverness."Because we are a big club" was the reply.

I have a horrible feeling that they will somehow wriggle out it. Horrible club with horrible supporters.

It's a shame, I have enjoyed watching them squirm.

He has several problems there:

1. Hamilton's balance sheet doesn't suggest they are in real danger of administration, but if they were

2. It's unlikely that anyone would force administration in the current climate, but if they did

3. Accies would have a right of appeal against the points deduction and in the current climate the SPFL would almost certainly uphold that appeal, but if they didn't

4. The 2019-20 season has ended so the points would be deducted next season so only liquidation would produce an opening in the Premiership, and if that happened

5. The precedent from the liquidation of the Real Rangers is that the second placed club from the second tier would be promoted - back then Dunfermline were relegated and stayed down and Dundee (the club that HoMFC later screwed over by delaying their own administration) were promoted.

It might be fun to drip-feed your family jambo with those facts.

[Lee Marvin]

“And Doncaster will attempt to hammer home the message that a radical overhaul of the current league structure - and in particular the lower three leagues - is no longer an option but an absolute necessity.”

Good stuff, leave the Premiership as it is and restructure the lower leagues. Job done.

Exactly this. Budges proposal does absolutely nothing to sort the problem that is highlighted in the DR article.

There has to be 'reconstruction' but that may be deciding to mothball league 1 and 2 as well as shortening the championship. This will be the main discussion next week. Its basically crunch time.

[Ronniekirk]

So the benefactor hasn’t disappeared at all then. Who’d have thunk Budge would be economical with the truth once again. The plea of poverty from Hearts back in March was just an attempt to offload a bunch of poor signings. Tasteless.

But that just gets glossed over as The (Self Appointed ) Saviour of Scottish Football ,works Miracles behind the scenes


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[proud_and_green]

Not surprised you missed it, it was in amongst the long winded waffle of a proposal that the benefactors are supporting them for a further 5 years.

"Foundation of Hearts, has amazingly had over 800 additional/increased pledges. Our benefactors too, continue to stand behind the Club. They have committed to continue to support us, not just throughout this current crisis, but for the next 5 years. Strong clubs are essential for a strong League and a strong Hearts has a big part to play in this."I don't quite understand where she gets it that Hearts are a strong club. Quite clearly by her own admission in the above quote they are not. They are being propped up by funds from outwith the structure of the company. That means, take away the prop and they collapse.
Budge needs to look to her club to sort out the mess it's in not outside it. This deflection is a waste of toil and treasure which she should, instead, be using to fix her club.
The issue is, I think, she doesn't know how to fix it it structurally therefore she is doing what many people in her situation do they deny responsibility is their's and deflect.
I also agree with the poster who suggests that the donation of the benefactor is in jeopardy. The fact that it is a single benefactor makes the whole situation so much more precarious for them.

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk

[Waxy]

**** me, I’ve woken up in Connecticut or some place!

Its fine, ya’ll still in Scotchland.

[Caversham Green]

“And Doncaster will attempt to hammer home the message that a radical overhaul of the current league structure - and in particular the lower three leagues - is no longer an option but an absolute necessity.”

Good stuff, leave the Premiership as it is and restructure the lower leagues. Job done.

I think 12-12-20 would do the trick with the option to revert to 12-12-10-10 in two years. The bottom league would play each other twice and it gives some flexibility if any clubs are unable to complete their fixtures. Those clubs are likely to come from the lower leagues in any case. I'd also go for two up two down and no play offs between the second and third tiers. Cove would suffer a little bit but they would be playing a lot of games against third tier clubs. The only other club to suffer would be Hearts which would be a shame. They do seem to be willing to make sacrifices for the good of Scottish football anyway.

[Ronniekirk]

Be good if you’re right. But personally, can’t see it.

Unless there is a second wave we need to get back to a new normal
They are already down south talking about exploring if social distancing can be reduced to one metre Things are changing at speed now
Scotland is a few weeks behind But as of today Lockdown Eases
Once you do that with all the safeguards in place Momentum builds
Are we really going to hang around snd wait on a second wave in the Winter
We have learnt lessons , treatments are improving all the time And if test and trace works , Thier will be mini lockdowns in areas where a spike is developing
They are back saying it’s safer outdoors
So anything is possible


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[brog]

Not surprised you missed it, it was in amongst the long winded waffle of a proposal that the benefactors are supporting them for a further 5 years.

"Foundation of Hearts, has amazingly had over 800 additional/increased pledges. Our benefactors too, continue to stand behind the Club. They have committed to continue to support us, not just throughout this current crisis, but for the next 5 years. Strong clubs are essential for a strong League and a strong Hearts has a big part to play in this."

Ok ta. I did say recently that i very much doubted Benny had gone away.

[The Count]

Leave the Premier League as 12 teams.Then look at helping the leagues below with reconstruction if necessary to allow teams who can/want to play to complete in a league next season.If the SPFL looked at it without the "Hearts angle" to me this would be the best way forward to cope with this pandemic.The Premier League as it stands works so do not destroy it to please one club.

[Greenworld]

I think 12-12-20 would do the trick with the option to revert to 12-12-10-10 in two years. The bottom league would play each other twice and it gives some flexibility if any clubs are unable to complete their fixtures. Those clubs are likely to come from the lower leagues in any case. I'd also go for two up two down and no play offs between the second and third tiers. Cove would suffer a little bit but they would be playing a lot of games against third tier clubs. The only other club to suffer would be Hearts which would be a shame. They do seem to be willing to make sacrifices for the good of Scottish football anyway.That is the Best option I've seen and makes so much sense , ill send that into the SPFL for consideration

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[PatHead]

He has several problems there:

1. Hamilton's balance sheet doesn't suggest they are in real danger of administration, but if they were

2. It's unlikely that anyone would force administration in the current climate, but if they did

3. Accies would have a right of appeal against the points deduction and in the current climate the SPFL would almost certainly uphold that appeal, but if they didn't

4. The 2019-20 season has ended so the points would be deducted next season so only liquidation would produce an opening in the Premiership, and if that happened

5. The precedent from the liquidation of the Real Rangers is that the second placed club from the second tier would be promoted - back then Dunfermline were relegated and stayed down and Dundee (the club that HoMFC later screwed over by delaying their own administration) were promoted.

It might be fun to drip-feed your family jambo with those facts.

Thanks for that. Could be a fun couple of days.

[Since452]

Was only a few weeks ago Hearts fans were crying about self interest from other clubs. Couldn't make it up.

[Bostonhibby]

Was asked a question about the whole mess last night that I just couldn't answer.

If a review and possible restructure of the leagues is genuinely required so quickly why have the authorities allowed it to be led by someone with so much skin in the game?



Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Col2]

I am surprised there isn’t more made of:-

1. Budge incentivising the vote with the commitment to fund / support testing. Surely that is against the rules?

2. Budge claiming they have big financial backing from benefactors yet has pleaded poverty and Armageddon type situation due to relegation. You can’t have it both ways.

3. The open ended (hence its a discussion paper not a proposal) around relegation, 42 or 44 teams, 7 placed play off for new European tournament etc etc. How can clubs sign up to such vague conditions.

4.She indicates that the parachute payment liability for the clubs offsets less distribution of money. But the sun (I know) showed the breakdown and every top tier club will be worse off by thousands. For us we are already taking a £125k hit by supporting the original SPFL proposals to finish the season.

5. At least 30% of the document is Hearts FC propaganda. This used to be about the unfairness to relegated clubs and clubs not getting playoff chance, then it was about Patrick (the most unlucky) and Stranraer and Hearts. Now it’s just about Hearts.

6. The desperate cry on unfairness has been relentless yet Cove Rangers who won league by 12 points after coming up from lower / highland league Previous season find themselves in bottom league and a bad season away from back to where they came from. Poor Stranraer are in the bottom league! Whoops sorry.

It’s a desperate attempt to get buyin from clubs then sort the detail further down the line while she has got her club safe.

Between now and Monday just watch all the hyperbole supported by BBC Radio Scotland supporting this wonderfully innovative ‘proposal’. She is after all a top business woman don’t you know..

[lucky]

Budges antics have been amusing during lockdown. With no football laughing at her attempts to change everything in Hearts favour have been a great watch. I’m loving the fact that lower league teams will kill off her plan as it bonkers and is potentially damaging for so many clubs now and in the future.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

I've favoured a 12-12-20 (2 regionalised leagues of 10) for a while now.

The Premiership and championship play home and away once so 22 games. We then split into 3 leagues of 8 so that's another 14 fixtures so a grand total of 36 league fixtures in the season.

Top 8 fight it out for the title and euro spots.
Middle 8 are fighting it out for promotion and relegation. This would be an very exciting mini league IMO with points reverting back to zero when it starts.
And the bottom 8 would be fighting it out to avoid the drop into one of the regional leagues I would have 3 down from this league to keep it interesting.

The league of 20 would be split into north east and south west divisions. They could be reset at the start of each season say if relegation into them created a geographical imbalance.
The Champions would be promoted automatically and the runners up would play off to take the place of the 3 teams relegated from the bottom 8 (if you catch my drift)
The bottom sides in each division would be relegated and both the Highland and Lowland champions would be promoted.

To put this into place for say next season all you would have to do would be to include Brora and Kelty plus Partick would get to remain in the Championship.

I've probably made it seem very complicated but in reality I don't think it is.

[Caversham Green]

I am surprised there isn’t more made of:-

1. Budge incentivising the vote with the commitment to fund / support testing. Surely that is against the rules?

2. Budge claiming they have big financial backing from benefactors yet has pleaded poverty and Armageddon type situation due to relegation. You can’t have it both ways.

3. The open ended (hence its a discussion paper not a proposal) around relegation, 42 or 44 teams, 7 placed play off for new European tournament etc etc. How can clubs sign up to such vague conditions.

4.She indicates that the parachute payment liability for the clubs offsets less distribution of money. But the sun (I know) showed the breakdown and every top tier club will be worse off by thousands. For us we are already taking a £125k hit by supporting the original SPFL proposals to finish the season.

5. At least 30% of the document is Hearts FC propaganda. This used to be about the unfairness to relegated clubs and clubs not getting playoff chance, then it was about Patrick (the most unlucky) and Stranraer and Hearts. Now it’s just about Hearts.

6. The desperate cry on unfairness has been relentless yet Cove Rangers who won league by 12 points after coming up from lower / highland league Previous season find themselves in bottom league and a bad season away from back to where they came from. Poor Stranraer are in the bottom league! Whoops sorry.

It’s a desperate attempt to get buyin from clubs then sort the detail further down the line while she has got her club safe.

Between now and Monday just watch all the hyperbole supported by BBC Radio Scotland supporting this wonderfully innovative ‘proposal’. She is after all a top business woman don’t you know..

Some good points there.

IMO her real mistake is suggesting a fixed solution when the problem hasn't yet been fully identified. The best case scenario is that we can get back to normal football within an acceptable timeframe to play a complete 20-21 season. In this case the reconstruction is unnecessary and the fact that it's temporary tells us that it's not an optimum setup. We don't really know what the worst case scenario is yet so therefore we don't know if Budge's solution will be the best one.

Instead of making fixed plans now they should be preparing to continue as normal while making contingency plans for what might happen and constantly reviewing those contingency plans. Budge is actively preventing them from doing that.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

So one source in record story has said

"These are going to be very difficult conversations but that's just the reality of the situation Scottish football now faces"

"Doncaster will meet with the Premiership clubs on Monday to discover if there is any consensus among them for what Ann has proposed, in terms of a 14 team top division next season"

Now forgive me, but referring to Neil Doncaster as Doncaster and Ann bUdge as Ann gives you a sense that then source is a bit partisan

[nonshinyfinish]

So one source in record story has said

"These are going to be very difficult conversations but that's just the reality of the situation Scottish football now faces"

"Doncaster will meet with the Premiership clubs on Monday to discover if there is any consensus among them for what Ann has proposed, in terms of a 14 team top division next season"

Now forgive me, but referring to Neil Doncaster as Doncaster and Ann bUdge as Ann gives you a sense that then source is a bit partisan

TBH it was probably a struggle not to refer to Budge as "I".

[Iggy Pope]

Its fine, ya’ll still in Scotchland.

:greengrin

[Mikey]

I've favoured a 12-12-20 (2 regionalised leagues of 10) for a while now.

The Premiership and championship play home and away once so 22 games. We then split into 3 leagues of 8 so that's another 14 fixtures so a grand total of 36 league fixtures in the season.

Top 8 fight it out for the title and euro spots.
Middle 8 are fighting it out for promotion and relegation. This would be an very exciting mini league IMO with points reverting back to zero when it starts.
And the bottom 8 would be fighting it out to avoid the drop into one of the regional leagues I would have 3 down from this league to keep it interesting.

The league of 20 would be split into north east and south west divisions. They could be reset at the start of each season say if relegation into them created a geographical imbalance.
The Champions would be promoted automatically and the runners up would play off to take the place of the 3 teams relegated from the bottom 8 (if you catch my drift)
The bottom sides in each division would be relegated and both the Highland and Lowland champions would be promoted.

To put this into place for say next season all you would have to do would be to include Brora and Kelty plus Partick would get to remain in the Championship.

I've probably made it seem very complicated but in reality I don't think it is.

It's a bit more complicated than a straightforward 12-12-20 but regionalising the lower leagues makes sense. You should send it to Partick Thistle.

[mal]

I am surprised there isn’t more made of:-

1. Budge incentivising the vote with the commitment to fund / support testing. Surely that is against the rules?

2. Budge claiming they have big financial backing from benefactors yet has pleaded poverty and Armageddon type situation due to relegation. You can’t have it both ways.

3. The open ended (hence its a discussion paper not a proposal) around relegation, 42 or 44 teams, 7 placed play off for new European tournament etc etc. How can clubs sign up to such vague conditions.

4.She indicates that the parachute payment liability for the clubs offsets less distribution of money. But the sun (I know) showed the breakdown and every top tier club will be worse off by thousands. For us we are already taking a £125k hit by supporting the original SPFL proposals to finish the season.

5. At least 30% of the document is Hearts FC propaganda. This used to be about the unfairness to relegated clubs and clubs not getting playoff chance, then it was about Patrick (the most unlucky) and Stranraer and Hearts. Now it’s just about Hearts.

6. The desperate cry on unfairness has been relentless yet Cove Rangers who won league by 12 points after coming up from lower / highland league Previous season find themselves in bottom league and a bad season away from back to where they came from. Poor Stranraer are in the bottom league! Whoops sorry.

It’s a desperate attempt to get buyin from clubs then sort the detail further down the line while she has got her club safe.

Between now and Monday just watch all the hyperbole supported by BBC Radio Scotland supporting this wonderfully innovative ‘proposal’. She is after all a top business woman don’t you know..

There's also the lack of any definitive suggestion to what happens if the 2020/21 season cannot be completed. There would be a vote on whether promotion and relegation would happen. That makes the situation less clear than the current rules. Two observations on that: 1) It's probably a deliberate avoidance of including in the document the average points solution that we have adopted this season so that people can't point to the fact that Hearts aren't accepting this solution for the season just ended. 2) If Hearts were in the Championship there's no way they would sign up to a proposal that would allow promotion for the top team to be blocked on a vote.

The promotion of Inverness is also a major hole. They are not in an automatic promotion spot and their second place is formally accepted because of the average points solution that Hearts won't themselves accept. If promotion is to be based on how good for the Premiership the team would be (Hearts' justification for themselves being included) then Inverness is way down the list. Dundee, Dunfermline and Partick all had higher attendances and are more conveniently located for most other clubs to travel to as well as having stadia with higher capacity, which could be important for social distancing.

[cocteautwin]

Was asked a question about the whole mess last night that I just couldn't answer.

If a review and possible restructure of the leagues is genuinely required so quickly why have the authorities allowed it to be led by someone with so much skin in the game?



Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

My view on this is they are giving Budge the chance to actually put it to a formal vote this time (and then she can shut up). The mistake the SPFL made a couple of weeks ago (just before the league was announced) was to accept Budge's view that her proposals wouldn't get passed after her canvassing of potential results so didn't put it to a formal vote. They weren't expecting her to come back with a further complaint. Subsequent to her further complaint they need to now put it to a formal final vote so she has no complaint that her voice wasn't heard.

[CMcP]

I've favoured a 12-12-20 (2 regionalised leagues of 10) for a while now.

The Premiership and championship play home and away once so 22 games. We then split into 3 leagues of 8 so that's another 14 fixtures so a grand total of 36 league fixtures in the season.

Top 8 fight it out for the title and euro spots.
Middle 8 are fighting it out for promotion and relegation. This would be an very exciting mini league IMO with points reverting back to zero when it starts.
And the bottom 8 would be fighting it out to avoid the drop into one of the regional leagues I would have 3 down from this league to keep it interesting.

The league of 20 would be split into north east and south west divisions. They could be reset at the start of each season say if relegation into them created a geographical imbalance.
The Champions would be promoted automatically and the runners up would play off to take the place of the 3 teams relegated from the bottom 8 (if you catch my drift)
The bottom sides in each division would be relegated and both the Highland and Lowland champions would be promoted.

To put this into place for say next season all you would have to do would be to include Brora and Kelty plus Partick would get to remain in the Championship.

I've probably made it seem very complicated but in reality I don't think it is.


I quite like that. Actually has some innovative ideas and the regionalised lower leagues makes sense.

[FilipinoHibs]

I quite like that. Actually has some innovative ideas and the regionalised lower leagues makes sense.

Would Hearts play in the West Lothian division?

[Kojock]

So one source in record story has said

"These are going to be very difficult conversations but that's just the reality of the situation Scottish football now faces"

"Doncaster will meet with the Premiership clubs on Monday to discover if there is any consensus among them for what Ann has proposed, in terms of a 14 team top division next season"

Now forgive me, but referring to Neil Doncaster as Doncaster and Ann bUdge as Ann gives you a sense that then source is a bit partisan

I’m glad I’m not the only one who noticed that. Tom English is one of the worse referring to Dempster or Doncaster but refers to his f*** buddy Budge as Ann.

[Bostonhibby]

My view on this is they are giving Budge the chance to actually put it to a formal vote this time (and then she can shut up). The mistake the SPFL made a couple of weeks ago (just before the league was announced) was to accept Budge's view that her proposals wouldn't get passed after her canvassing of potential results so didn't put it to a formal vote. They weren't expecting her to come back with a further complaint. Subsequent to her further complaint they need to now put it to a formal final vote so she has no complaint that her voice wasn't heard.Letting her fall at the first fence was probably the right thing to do but it's beyond farce that they keep letting her have the time to go on rejigging the illusion in the hope that one day it will work.

Especially as it's left so many others exposed and at a disadvantage for planning ahead.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Kojock]

Letting her fall at the first fence was probably the right thing to do but it's beyond farce that they keep letting her have the time to go on rejigging the illusion in the hope that one day it will work.

Especially as it's left so many others exposed and at a disadvantage for planning ahead.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

But she’s not rejigging the proposal as in her own words.

“This current paper adds some detail to my initial proposition, which is largely unchanged.”

It failed miserably the first time and will once again on Monday.

[Renfrew_Hibby]

It's a bit more complicated than a straightforward 12-12-20 but regionalising the lower leagues makes sense. You should send it to Partick Thistle.

Plus Falkirk would come up with Raith, but Hearts would still be down :)

[Bostonhibby]

But she’s not rejigging the proposal as in her own words.

“This current paper adds some detail to my initial proposition, which is largely unchanged.”

It failed miserably the first time and will once again on Monday.I hear you, and am expecting the same but if it was buried correctly the first time then we wouldn't see the cringeworthy carrot and stick stuff like Covid testing help and ambiguous statements about how Hearts are/aren't in trouble being trotted out in an attempt to influence and intimidate.



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[cocteautwin]

Where is the benefactors money? According to CapitalGreen who knows Wallace the person who heads FOH, there is one benefactor and because of the economic crisis, Hearts will not be a priority and well down the list of causes he will be helping. Maybe he could provide some colour. But think it is more bluster from Budge.

In my own uninformed opinion, I think the benefactor (whoever she might be) never disappeared, and anyway, the stock market has bounced back to pre COVID levels. If the benefactor is financially adept they'll have made some serious money over the past couple of months.

One thing that struck me as interesting is Budge's statement underplaying how much the benefactor has put in. They state it's £9m which sort of adds up to those amounts that are publicly identifiable in the accounts. If one does add up everything (disclosed and implied) the number comes out a lot higher. Amounts disclosed in the accounts paid in by benefactor do actually amount to £9.2m. But, I think we can add on the c£2m put in to date for the STC "sponsorship". Then we need to add in the extra cash they will have needed to see them through to the end of this season after they spent all the early season ticket money before last season ended - that number must have been some £4m as a prudent estimate.

I would say the benefactor number should be closer to £15m rather than the £9m they stated yesterday.

[MacGruber]

I am surprised there isn’t more made of:-

1. Budge incentivising the vote with the commitment to fund / support testing. Surely that is against the rules?

2. Budge claiming they have big financial backing from benefactors yet has pleaded poverty and Armageddon type situation due to relegation. You can’t have it both ways.

3. The open ended (hence its a discussion paper not a proposal) around relegation, 42 or 44 teams, 7 placed play off for new European tournament etc etc. How can clubs sign up to such vague conditions.

4.She indicates that the parachute payment liability for the clubs offsets less distribution of money. But the sun (I know) showed the breakdown and every top tier club will be worse off by thousands. For us we are already taking a £125k hit by supporting the original SPFL proposals to finish the season.

5. At least 30% of the document is Hearts FC propaganda. This used to be about the unfairness to relegated clubs and clubs not getting playoff chance, then it was about Patrick (the most unlucky) and Stranraer and Hearts. Now it’s just about Hearts.

6. The desperate cry on unfairness has been relentless yet Cove Rangers who won league by 12 points after coming up from lower / highland league Previous season find themselves in bottom league and a bad season away from back to where they came from. Poor Stranraer are in the bottom league! Whoops sorry.

It’s a desperate attempt to get buyin from clubs then sort the detail further down the line while she has got her club safe.

Between now and Monday just watch all the hyperbole supported by BBC Radio Scotland supporting this wonderfully innovative ‘proposal’. She is after all a top business woman don’t you know..

Exactly.

Add

7. Budge proposal says 12 SPL teams plus Dundee United and Inverness from Championship. This is incorrect. It should have said 12 SPL teams plus Hearts and Inverness from the Championship. Promotion and relegation have happened. Maybe phrased that way so no questions on the merits of who goes up from the Championship - why Hearts? Inverness because they finished 2nd when Hearts say final places don't count because games to play. Very confusing principals!

At least Budge put a bit of honesty into the proposal saying that this isn't just about saving Hearts, Partick and Stranraer. True - it isn't, Stranraer aren't getting saved!

[brog]

In my own uninformed opinion, I think the benefactor (whoever she might be) never disappeared, and anyway, the stock market has bounced back to pre COVID levels. If the benefactor is financially adept they'll have made some serious money over the past couple of months.

One thing that struck me as interesting is Budge's statement underplaying how much the benefactor has put in. They state it's £9m which sort of adds up to those amounts that are publicly identifiable in the accounts. If one does add up everything (disclosed and implied) the number comes out a lot higher. Amounts disclosed in the accounts paid in by benefactor do actually amount to £9.2m. But, I think we can add on the c£2m put in to date for the STC "sponsorship". Then we need to add in the extra cash they will have needed to see them through to the end of this season after they spent all the early season ticket money before last season ended - that number must have been some £4m as a prudent estimate.

I would say the benefactor number should be closer to £15m rather than the £9m they stated yesterday.

I agree on all counts. The analysis I did previously showed £8.8m of income from Benny over last 3 years & without that they would have made a loss of £1.7m in that period. Discounting profit on sale of players the loss averaged nearly £1m per season for last 3. If your numbers are correct, & I think you're in the ballpark then they're losing up to £3m a year on routine trading activities. No wonder Budgie's in a state!

[FilipinoHibs]

In my own uninformed opinion, I think the benefactor (whoever she might be) never disappeared, and anyway, the stock market has bounced back to pre COVID levels. If the benefactor is financially adept they'll have made some serious money over the past couple of months.

One thing that struck me as interesting is Budge's statement underplaying how much the benefactor has put in. They state it's £9m which sort of adds up to those amounts that are publicly identifiable in the accounts. If one does add up everything (disclosed and implied) the number comes out a lot higher. Amounts disclosed in the accounts paid in by benefactor do actually amount to £9.2m. But, I think we can add on the c£2m put in to date for the STC "sponsorship". Then we need to add in the extra cash they will have needed to see them through to the end of this season after they spent all the early season ticket money before last season ended - that number must have been some £4m as a prudent estimate.

I would say the benefactor number should be closer to £15m rather than the £9m they stated yesterday.

And they have given a five year commitment. All seems very strange.The stick market has made up about 50% of its losses. Any savvy investor knows there is worse to come. Unless they have liquidated all stocks they will suffer more hits. 5 year guarantee sounds like bluster.

[Waxy]

The whole things a shambles.
A proper proposal should have every issue pointed out.
If voted on it will have to be crystal clear and ready to be legally binding.
This is a muddy, bloody mess.
The entire situation is laughable.

[Jakhog1]

It's all just pure waffle from budge, the more I read the more she continues to contradict herself, the people that are advising her must be yes people as no sane person would allow her to go ahead with her proposals and statements, why do they think Scottish football should bend over backwards for them, silly wee wifey that she is

[Carheenlea]

If the majority on here who are simply ordinary football fans are able to spot the flaws with ease, you would have to assume that those charged with the responsibility of running their football clubs and have years of experience doing so will surely see the same and more with Budge’s paper and come to the conclusion that her main priority is simply to retain Hearts’ status in the top 12. That’s not to say some might have more sympathy with that than us of course, but I don’t get the impression that Hearts are as well liked and respected a club with their peers as they might think they are.

[Peevemor]

My view on this is they are giving Budge the chance to actually put it to a formal vote this time (and then she can shut up). The mistake the SPFL made a couple of weeks ago (just before the league was announced) was to accept Budge's view that her proposals wouldn't get passed after her canvassing of potential results so didn't put it to a formal vote. They weren't expecting her to come back with a further complaint. Subsequent to her further complaint they need to now put it to a formal final vote so she has no complaint that her voice wasn't heard.

Budge was jointly in charge of a group tasked to look into the possibilty of reconstruction. A couple of weeks ago the SPFL disbanded the group, basically saying that it was a waste of time continuing as theres no appetite for reconstruction at the moment.

What Budge proposed the other day is entirely different. It's an independent member's motion, prepared and proposed by HMFC.

The two things shouldn't be confused.

We all fell like things are dragging on, but given that Budge sent her document on Tuesday, it was discussed by the SPFL board yesterday who decided that it was apt for further discussion with the clubs. Whether the board thing it's a good or bad idea is irrelevant - if the motion is formulated correctly it's not up to them to refuse it. It will be discussed by the clubs on Monday (who each will have had their own board meetings in the meantime).

So to go from Budge submitting her document on Tuesday, SPFL board meeting on Wednesday and meeting of member clubs Monday - that's acutally amazingly quick.

Once this has been knocked on the head, the SPFL will issue it's fixture list for next season - at that stage it'll be too late for any further proposals.

[Peevemor]

If the majority on here who are simply ordinary football fans are able to spot the flaws with ease, you would have to assume that those charged with the responsibility of running their football clubs and have years of experience doing so will surely see the same and more with Budge’s paper and come to the conclusion that her main priority is simply to retain Hearts’ status in the top 12. That’s not to say some might have more sympathy with that than us of course, but I don’t get the impression that Hearts are as well liked and respected a club with their peers as they might think they are.

Certainly those that run their clubs on just a fraction of what Budge has wasted won't be full of admiration.

[brog]

The family Jambo, who has been really quiet lately, has got a stiffy. If Queen Ann's proposal fails, he thinks Hearts won't get relegated as Hamilton are going bust. "Have you not seen their accounts? He asks." They are 500k in debt and no means to pay it. So we are staying up."

I asked why Hearts would come back up and not Inverness."Because we are a big club" was the reply.

I have a horrible feeling that they will somehow wriggle out it. Horrible club with horrible supporters.

It's a shame, I have enjoyed watching them squirm.

Cav has already answered about the Hamilton accounts in greater forensic detail but just to help you reduce his stiffy further you may wish to direct him to his own team's finances.
1. Hamilton have £648k more current assets than liabilities. Hearts have £11.3m less!!
2. Hearts trade creditors are more than 4 times the value of their trade debtors, ie they owe more than 4 times what they are owed.
3. Hearts are scheduled to repay loans totalling £4m in the next year.
4. Despite just adding the current cost of the new stand, £20m, to their balance sheet, Hearts' total net assets are only £17.5m!!
5. Without anonymous donations of £8.8m in the last 3 years, (not F of H) Hearts would have lost £1.7m.

All the above is only what is transparent in Hearts' accounts. Fill your boots!

[Heisenberg]

Ayr United and Peterhead another couple of clubs to come out and shoot down Budgie’s proposal. Ayr chairman especially doesn’t mince his words.

https://bit.ly/2BayITW

[JeMeSouviens]

Ayr United and Peterhead another couple of clubs to come out and shoot down Budgie’s proposal. Ayr chairman especially doesn’t mince his words.

https://bit.ly/2BayITW


They are bigger than Livingston. They are bigger than St Johnstone. They are bigger than Hamilton. Well, guess what? They finished in last place.”

Ooft!


Jim McInally has slammed Ann Budge’s 14-14-14 reconstruction plan as he called for clubs lower down the SPFL to “show she can’t bully us”.

The Peterhead boss reckons the Hearts supremo’s proposals - which will be debated by the separate divisions next week - show a “total disregard” for clubs further down the tree.

To be fair, they don't show any regard for clubs further up the tree either. :wink:

[Hibeesmad]

Ayr United and Peterhead another couple of clubs to come out and shoot down Budgie’s proposal. Ayr chairman especially doesn’t mince his words.

https://bit.ly/2BayITW

They are spot on.

[jacomo]

The evolution of Budge’s thinking:

1. ‘No club should be financially penalised by Covid 19.’

Perhaps it was pointed out to her that every club is paying a heavy financial price. So...

2. ‘No club should be unfairly penalised...’

It’s the expulsion not relegation theme. Now for the detailed work on reconstruction.

3. ‘F*** Stranraer.’

Turns out that when she said no club should be disadvantaged, she really just meant Hearts.

[Jakhog1]

Ayr United and Peterhead another couple of clubs to come out and shoot down Budgie’s proposal. Ayr chairman especially doesn’t mince his words.

https://bit.ly/2BayITW

Good, I am glad club's are seeing it for what it is

[JeMeSouviens]

This is, as predicted by everybody, deader than a dead dodo on a doornail.

Really, really hope they take it to court though. :aok:

[Bostonhibby]

Ayr United and Peterhead another couple of clubs to come out and shoot down Budgie’s proposal. Ayr chairman especially doesn’t mince his words.

https://bit.ly/2BayITWGood stuff, but I'm sure Mrs doctor Budge said they were all being saved not bullied.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Sioux]

Budge's plan is supposed to be about what's best for football. Reconstruction will make no difference as to whether clubs have the ability to play behind closed doors or not.

If its 14-14-14 or 12-10-10-10, clubs who can't play, cant play, and those who can only commit to something half a season won't be able to play any more than that.

I mentioned earlier that her stated solution for that was for the two lower leagues to sort it out for themselves. The PL will be OK, so she needs to be in it (to win it lol!).

[007]

There's also the lack of any definitive suggestion to what happens if the 2020/21 season cannot be completed. There would be a vote on whether promotion and relegation would happen. That makes the situation less clear than the current rules. Two observations on that: 1) It's probably a deliberate avoidance of including in the document the average points solution that we have adopted this season so that people can't point to the fact that Hearts aren't accepting this solution for the season just ended. 2) If Hearts were in the Championship there's no way they would sign up to a proposal that would allow promotion for the top team to be blocked on a vote.

The promotion of Inverness is also a major hole. They are not in an automatic promotion spot and their second place is formally accepted because of the average points solution that Hearts won't themselves accept. If promotion is to be based on how good for the Premiership the team would be (Hearts' justification for themselves being included) then Inverness is way down the list. Dundee, Dunfermline and Partick all had higher attendances and are more conveniently located for most other clubs to travel to as well as having stadia with higher capacity, which could be important for social distancing.

All very good points, particularly the bit I've bolded. I've love to hear Budge have a go at justifying that. Hopefully Leeann or someone will ask it on the Premiership zoom call on Monday. If I was into Twitter, Facebook etc much I'd be trying to get that circulated.

[vuefrom1875]

This is, as predicted by everybody, deader than a dead dodo on a doornail.

Really, really hope they take it to court though. :aok:

Or a dead parrot 😂

[bringbackbenny]

This is, as predicted by everybody, deader than a dead dodo on a doornail.

Really, really hope they take it to court though. :aok:

So do I. and to be fair they are well used to pi**ing money against a wall and therefore a continuation of their operating model :rolleyes:

[Wakeyhibee]

She has sealed their own fate with this amateurish attempt at a proposal. I don't think you write a more derisory and arrogant proposal if you tried, not to mention the lack of detail, depth or balance.

I'm just glad it's her that's in charge of this and not somebody half way competent.

[Since452]

Ayr United and Peterhead another couple of clubs to come out and shoot down Budgie’s proposal. Ayr chairman especially doesn’t mince his words.

https://bit.ly/2BayITW

Looks like Budge is going to have to add yet another failure to a long, long list of them

[Jakhog1]

She has sealed their own fate with this amateurish attempt at a proposal. I don't think you write a more derisory and arrogant proposal if you tried, not to mention the lack of detail, depth or balance.

I'm just glad it's her that's in charge of this and not somebody half way competent.

She may has well said let us stay in, we are bigger and better than the rest of you and saved herself sometime

[H18 SFR]

Ayr United and Peterhead another couple of clubs to come out and shoot down Budgie’s proposal. Ayr chairman especially doesn’t mince his words.

https://bit.ly/2BayITW

As a resident here in Ayr, can I please be tasked with the job of going up to his house in Ayr just now to deliver a bottle of Whisky on behalf of Hibs.net?

Finally some sense on the matter.

[Since90+2]

Unlucky Hearts. Enjoy the trips to Alloa and Arbroath.

Big team big league wee team wee league.

[brog]

Love Cameron's comment, "We're a Championship club, Hearts are a Championship Club". Ouch!!

[Billy Whizz]

Ayr United and Peterhead another couple of clubs to come out and shoot down Budgie’s proposal. Ayr chairman especially doesn’t mince his words.

https://bit.ly/2BayITW

The maroon pound will be boycotting Somerset Park next season.

[EdinMike]

Ooofft. What’s the exchange rate on that ol’ Jambo pound these days ?!

[Wakeyhibee]

Ooofft. What’s the exchange rate on that ol’ Jambo pound these days ?!

https://www.coursehero.com/file/pbgro4/Maroon-pounds-are-foods-that-an-individual-food-bank-already-has-perhaps-from/

Not a lot going off a google search

"Maroon pounds are foods that an individual food bank already has, perhaps from another source, but for which it may not be the highest value user. It could be that a food bank already has something, but wants something else. (One example could be where a food bank wants quantity over quality, and sells high value chicken or fish to get a larger supply of pasta.)"

Kinda fits !!!

[weecounty hibby]

Ooofft. What’s the exchange rate on that ol’ Jambo pound these days ?!

It's about 20m to 1 unfinished stand. Or about 3m to 1 relegation.

[007]

The Lachlan Cameron interview from yesterday is enhanced by Jambo Martin Geissler's squealing. See 17 mins 30.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000jmhw/the-nine-the-nine

[Mikey]

Ayr United and Peterhead another couple of clubs to come out and shoot down Budgie’s proposal. Ayr chairman especially doesn’t mince his words.

https://bit.ly/2BayITW


They're doing their dinger about it over the road. It's absolutely hilarious :hilarious

[Since452]

Hearts being slapped down to size by Ayr United is wonderful

[supermcginn]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5643355/hearts-budge-bully-spfl-restructure-nonsense-peterhead-mcinally/amp/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Jim McInally absolutely shredding budge.

[weecounty hibby]

Hearts being slapped down to size by Ayr United is wonderful

It will really get to them where he says "we are a championship club and they are a championship club" that will get right into their heads about their bigliness. Them being huge and famous and all that

[Mikey]

Hearts being slapped down to size by Ayr United is wonderful

Well they are above them in the table at the moment, as are Alloa, Arbroath, Dundee and Dunfermline :tee hee:

[Renfrew_Hibby]

The Lachlan Cameron interview from yesterday is enhanced by Jambo Martin Geissler's squealing. See 17 mins 30.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000jmhw/the-nine-the-nine

Confirmation that I shall not watch a minute of the Hearts documentary.
Presented and no doubt edited and produced in some part by Martin Geissler, it will be a gushing, truth twisting promo for Lady Budge.

No Thank You.

[MikeyS]

They're doing their dinger about it over the road. It's absolutely hilarious :hilarious

That website does no favours to "normal jambos"

A bitter, twisted bunch of morons.

Particularly enjoying the ones that are adamant Sky are desperate to save them from the drop as they are too big a draw to lose from the league.

I'd wager the top boy at Sky Sports couldn't name 8 of the teams in our league, they just aren't interested beyond Celtic & Rangers.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5643355/hearts-budge-bully-spfl-restructure-nonsense-peterhead-mcinally/amp/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Jim McInally absolutely shredding budge.

Bout time they got called out!

"McInally believes lower-league clubs are being used as cannon fodder to save the Jambos’ skin, with the likes of Cove Rangers denied going up a level and others risking mass relegations in future."

"“Nobody wants Hearts to be relegated (EDIT Speak for yourself pal), but if it comes down to Hearts being relegated rather than Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar or Stranraer or Cove being denied promotion then we need to fight and show she can't come and bully us.""

[SMAXXA]

The Lachlan Cameron interview from yesterday is enhanced by Jambo Martin Geissler's squealing. See 17 mins 30.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/m000jmhw/the-nine-the-nine

I enjoyed that lol

[jacomo]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/sport/football/5643355/hearts-budge-bully-spfl-restructure-nonsense-peterhead-mcinally/amp/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter&__twitter_impression=true

Jim McInally absolutely shredding budge.


She’s making friends everywhere it seems. It seems the more she talks, the less people like what she’s got to say.

[EI255]

Wonder how much this has cost Jumbos and Budge?

Sent from my LG-H840 using Tapatalk

[EI255]

She’s making friends everywhere it seems. It seems the more she talks, the less people like what she’s got to say.She's got a smokers mooth

Sent from my LG-H840 using Tapatalk

[Renfrew_Hibby]

I think many neutral Scottish football fans are starting to wake up to what we Hibbies have been banging on about for years.
Being a native of Ayrshire and now living in Renfrewshire, your average Ayr, Killie, Morton or St. Mirren fan would be fairly ignorant of all the shenanigans of the last 40 years.
From Mercer to Romanov and now to the Budgie, it didn't matter.
All people saw was an alternative to the old firm, a great example, taking the whitterings of Sportsound for example as gospel and completely not getting my rancour with the whole thing.
Your just upset cause Hearts are bigger and better than Hibs etc.
People are starting to notice just what an entitled and deluded lot they really are.

[Green Blood]

Confirmation that I shall not watch a minute of the Hearts documentary.
Presented and no doubt edited and produced in some part by Martin Geissler, it will be a gushing, truth twisting promo for Lady Budge.

No Thank You.

You must, the stench of scheidt will be so strong it will be transmitted through the tv! No amount of sweet talking and lie telling can cover up the dung heap that is the piggery!

[Brunswickbill]

I think that the SPFL needs to take action to support teams during the Covid crisis. My suggested approch, developed after weeks of consideration and has the benefit of avoiding the needless disruption of restucturing the leagues and is based on maintaining the current 12-10-10-10 league structure. Many teams, particularly in the lower leagues will have difficulty fielding a team which may result in unfair relegation arising from financial issues rather than football merit. What I propose is to stop relegation for two seasons, this would allow teams to bring on young players without the threat of relegation hanging over them. Playing youngsters would minimise wage bills and removing the threat of relegation would lead to open expressive football. Of course if there is no relegation there would be no promotion. The winner of each of the leagues over the two years would take part in play-off to determine promotion after the two-season standstill. The parachute payment from the Premiership would be spread among all teams to provide financial support. Can't see why any team could object to this.:wink:

[Mikey]

They seem to be getting excited about an SPFL rule that allows the board to over rule any vote in an emergency. I suspect that card would have been played a long time ago if the SPFL board were planning on keeping them in the Premiership.

[Ozyhibby]

They seem to be getting excited about an SPFL rule that allows the board to over rule any vote in an emergency. I suspect that card would have been played a long time ago if the SPFL board were planning on keeping them in the Premiership.

How long would the board be the board if they do something the clubs don’t want?[emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ScottB]

The line now seems to be that it’s not about them, it’s about saving Scottish football.

Any idea as to why a 14 team league saves us all, but a 12 team one would mean our doom?

[Col2]

They seem to be getting excited about an SPFL rule that allows the board to over rule any vote in an emergency. I suspect that card would have been played a long time ago if the SPFL board were planning on keeping them in the Premiership.

Just watched the Sky Sports interview. A clear case of threatening the lower league clubs and suggesting they won’t be able to play so vote pointless from them. She looks like she has lost the plot, seriously. She is shaking and I think someone needs to have a word with her and check she is ok.

Could you imagine if the championship, league one and two knock it back but SPFL board just crack on. Oh the irony after them bleated about he legality of the last SPFL vote.

[Heisenberg]

They seem to be getting excited about an SPFL rule that allows the board to over rule any vote in an emergency. I suspect that card would have been played a long time ago if the SPFL board were planning on keeping them in the Premiership.

https://twitter.com/scotlandsky/status/1266049598541434881?s=21

Seems wee Budgie is after that happening too. I don’t see why they’d declare it an emergency just to ensure Hearts stay up this late in the day. It would’ve happened before now if they wanted to save them. It’s up to the clubs to decide.

[calumhibee1]

The line now seems to be that it’s not about them, it’s about saving Scottish football.

Any idea as to why a 14 team league saves us all, but a 12 team one would mean our doom?

Nobody could tell you that. Budgie, Hearts fans, Hibs fans, the SPFL.. nobody actually knows either:

A - why teams are doomed if we stick as it is
B - why it would be any better in a 24 team league

They keep repeating it but there’s been absolutely no explanation as to why EVERYBODY in Scottish football is apparently better off for it or how this new league set up will get everyone playing when the current one wouldnt.

[Mikey]

Donald Findlay has rolled down his trouser leg and got stuck in........

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52840999

[Tattie]

Just watched the Sky Sports interview. A clear case of threatening the lower league clubs and suggesting they won’t be able to play so vote pointless from them. She looks like she has lost the plot, seriously. She is shaking and I think someone needs to have a word with her and check she is ok.

Could you imagine if the championship, league one and two knock it back but SPFL board just crack on. Oh the irony after them bleated about he legality of the last SPFL vote.

Yea this is what gets me. Basically saying, you might not have games next year so save us and in exchange we’ll save Scottish football cause we are the mighty Hearts. Bolt hen.

Hearts: Cowdenbeath's Donald Findlay says reconstruction 'self-seeking' https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52840999

Looks like it won’t even got out the League 1 & 2 vote anyway. SPFL should make this meeting on Monday instead of the Premiership so we don’t waste anymore time on this nonsense.

[Ozyhibby]

Are they still going to try and present this proposal? More than enough clubs have already rejected it. I think it’s cruel to make them present the proposal now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibeesmad]

Donald Findlay has rolled down his trouser leg and got stuck in........

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52840999

Another one bites the dust.

[Ozyhibby]

I make it now

Cowdenbeath
Forfar
Peterhead
Cove
Clyde
Stenhousemuir
Elgin

Who have said they will vote against from L1&L2.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[KDY Hibs]

She is really starting to annoy me now, she has pushed her beloved jumbos to the brink(amusingly) now embarrassingly trying absolutely anything to save them, you wasted millions, were worst team in the league, take your medicine and bolt!

[calumhibee1]

No money for ST refunds I see. Becoming more and more apparent what the real issue is here.

[H18 SFR]

https://twitter.com/scotlandsky/status/1266049598541434881?s=21

Seems wee Budgie is after that happening too. I don’t see why they’d declare it an emergency just to ensure Hearts stay up this late in the day. It would’ve happened before now if they wanted to save them. It’s up to the clubs to decide.

Wonder if that glass wall came in on budget?

[JimBHibees]

Love Cameron's comment, "We're a Championship club, Hearts are a Championship Club". Ouch!!

Cracking line. Heard him speak and seems very sensible.

[Waxy]

The moaning they are doing will be a whisper compaired to what would happen if the SPFL board over ride the vote.
I’m certain they couldnt do that for things like this anyway.
I’m pretty sure she’s talking mince.

[ac1]

Do they not actually realise that insulting and threatening the clubs that they are trying to get to vote for their proposal is not likely to be a winning combination?

[Bobby's Cinema]

Had enough of this dragging on now.

Get their fate sealed so I can relax

[Hibs1969]

The more she speaks, the more she reminds me of this guy..............

23447

[Since90+2]

Wee Hearts are going down. They've sold about 4000 season tickets. Embarrassing.

[tamig]

No money for ST refunds I see. Becoming more and more apparent what the real issue is here.

Whats this about? Hertz for the current season?

[Waxy]

If they’re going into administration it’s their own fault.
They need to sort their club out properly.

[Victor]

English Premier League re-starting on 17th June. Hope Hearts have got their application in. They will be better off out of the ‘diddy’ Scottish League.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Sammy7nil]

A simple question for the Budgie Hearts are fine and have financial resources in place for the next five years. It is imperative we have leagues to return to. Almost every other club in Scotland bar Celtic is struggling therefore for the good of the game and Scottish football as a whole will the Budgie shut the **** up?

Surely at this moment in time that is what is best for our game and it won't have a long-term effect on Hearts as they have lots of money 💰

[easty]

Had enough of this dragging on now.

Get their fate sealed so I can relax

I'm actually quite enjoying watching the utterly desperate show they're providing :greengrin

On the park, they wanted to save themselves from relegation...but that didnae work

Then they say naw naw you cannae send us down, we only played 30 games, so that's not allowed, we don't care about the actual rules...but that didn't work either

Then they say there needs to be restructuring for the good of Scottish football...but nobody wants to vote for it

Then they say the league needs to just decide to save them, it's in the rules (cos they care about the rules now)...but that'll no work

Then they'll threaten court action...and that'll get them nowhere either


Whats not to like?

[Shrekko]

I'm actually quite enjoying watching the utterly desperate show they're providing :greengrin

On the park, they wanted to save themselves from relegation...but that didnae work

Then they say naw naw you cannae send us down, we only played 30 games, so that's not allowed, we don't care about the actual rules...but that didn't work either

Then they say there needs to be restructuring for the good of Scottish football...but nobody wants to vote for it

Then they say the league needs to just decide to save them, it's in the rules (cos they care about the rules now)...but that'll no work

Then they'll threaten court action...and that'll get them nowhere either


Whats not to like?

Threats of legal action have been pretty half hearted from the club itself and it’s not surprising .... they have no chance.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Can just imagine the lower league club chairmen answering their ringing phone, "hello"

"Hi, it's the Hearts supremo Ann Budge again, i was just wondering if you thought any more about saving Hear.....I mean league reconstruction to save Scottish football....................hello................h ello.........."

[Col2]

No money for ST refunds I see. Becoming more and more apparent what the real issue is here.

The contempt she shows the fans is brilliant.

Redirected FOH funds to the club but no refund for season ticket holders.

Suggestion they were in grave financial position then denied onnradio Scotland and followed up with confirmation of benefactors commitment and even willing to fund testing and testing hub for other clubs in the sham of a paper she wrote. Now it’s no refunds and it’s gone from a £3m impac to £4m.

Going by her body language on sky sports clips she is on the edge big time.

[calumhibee1]

Whats this about? Hertz for the current season?

Yup. Hearts have told their fans they couldn’t give afford to refund any of this seasons ST.

From the DR:

Hearts have told supporters they simply can't afford to offer partial season ticket refunds.

The Jambos admit the financial hit of reimbursing fans for unfulfilled fixtures would be too great as they face up to the grim reality of relegation to the Championship.


Owner Ann Budge has submitted plans for league reconstruction which she hopes will keep her club in the Premiership next season.

Dropping to the second tier leaves Hearts facing the harmful prospect of a delayed restart, with some Championship clubs feeling they are unable to return to action until stadium gates are again opened to punters.


Some Premiership sides have offered refunds for the remaining 2019/20 matches but Hearts have confirmed they won't be among them - although existing season ticket holders have been told they will receive a 10 per cent discount next season, as well as 18 games guaranteed. In an e-mail sent in response to fan enquiries, the club insist the decision is in line with pre-existing policy and that the "overwhelming" feedback from fans has been sympathetic given the current, extraordinary circumstances.

The email reads: "The complete shutdown of Scottish football and related revenue streams unfortunately means we are not in a position to offer refunds to season ticket holders for outstanding fixtures.

[Hibeesmad]

Are they dead yet?

[rossevenil]

Poor woman,this reconstruction really is taking its toll on her
https://i.postimg.cc/NjKwtNpq/101223989-1347119885483955-4669021684345339904-n.jpg (https://postimages.org/)

[Eyrie]

I make it now

Cowdenbeath
Forfar
Peterhead
Cove
Clyde
Stenhousemuir
Elgin

Who have said they will vote against from L1&L2.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Budge needs the support of fifteen of the twenty teams in those two leagues. She's doing a superb job so far.

[Hibeesmad]

Yup. Hearts have told their fans they couldn’t give afford to refund any of this seasons ST.

From the DR:

Hearts have told supporters they simply can't afford to offer partial season ticket refunds.

The Jambos admit the financial hit of reimbursing fans for unfulfilled fixtures would be too great as they face up to the grim reality of relegation to the Championship.


Owner Ann Budge has submitted plans for league reconstruction which she hopes will keep her club in the Premiership next season.

Dropping to the second tier leaves Hearts facing the harmful prospect of a delayed restart, with some Championship clubs feeling they are unable to return to action until stadium gates are again opened to punters.


Some Premiership sides have offered refunds for the remaining 2019/20 matches but Hearts have confirmed they won't be among them - although existing season ticket holders have been told they will receive a 10 per cent discount next season, as well as 18 games guaranteed. In an e-mail sent in response to fan enquiries, the club insist the decision is in line with pre-existing policy and that the "overwhelming" feedback from fans has been sympathetic given the current, extraordinary circumstances.

The email reads: "The complete shutdown of Scottish football and related revenue streams unfortunately means we are not in a position to offer refunds to season ticket holders for outstanding fixtures.

Bit premature in guaranteeing 18 games next season? Opening themselves up for even more failure.

[weecounty hibby]

Donald Findlay has rolled down his trouser leg and got stuck in........

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52840999

I am amazed at how much sense he has talked over the last few weeks. Also amazed at how much I'm beginning to like him

[brog]

Are they still going to try and present this proposal? More than enough clubs have already rejected it. I think it’s cruel to make them present the proposal now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I saw a Sun headline that said the proposal may be dropped as it appears it has no chance. Shame!

[Sammy7nil]

Yup. Hearts have told their fans they couldn’t give afford to refund any of this seasons ST.

From the DR:

Hearts have told supporters they simply can't afford to offer partial season ticket refunds.

The Jambos admit the financial hit of reimbursing fans for unfulfilled fixtures would be too great as they face up to the grim reality of relegation to the Championship.


Owner Ann Budge has submitted plans for league reconstruction which she hopes will keep her club in the Premiership next season.

Dropping to the second tier leaves Hearts facing the harmful prospect of a delayed restart, with some Championship clubs feeling they are unable to return to action until stadium gates are again opened to punters.


Some Premiership sides have offered refunds for the remaining 2019/20 matches but Hearts have confirmed they won't be among them - although existing season ticket holders have been told they will receive a 10 per cent discount next season, as well as 18 games guaranteed. In an e-mail sent in response to fan enquiries, the club insist the decision is in line with pre-existing policy and that the "overwhelming" feedback from fans has been sympathetic given the current, extraordinary circumstances.

The email reads: "The complete shutdown of Scottish football and related revenue streams unfortunately means we are not in a position to offer refunds to season ticket holders for outstanding fixtures.

Nobody over on way back is even questioning this it is a non story. They are still very well off and the only team outside Celtic guaranteed to have funds to start next season. They are a strange bunch surely this should have the alarm bells ringing?

[calumhibee1]

Bit premature in guaranteeing 18 games next season? Opening themselves up for even more failure.

I presume they’ll give them 18 games whether it’s over one or two seasons.

[Irish_Steve]

Oh ffs - just thought I`d have a peek on Brokeback to see the seethe - since about this time last night, they have managed to add nearly 70 pages of guff.

I tell you, I`m glad this has happened during lockdown, it`s priceless viewing

Away to see when we are about to go bust - tick tock and all that stuff

[brog]

Nobody over on way back is even questioning this it is a non story. They are still very well off and the only team outside Celtic guaranteed to have funds to start next season. They are a strange bunch surely this should have the alarm bells ringing?

Especially when they said we were in deep doodoo just for asking fans not to request a refund if possible.

[Waxy]

I saw a Sun headline that said the proposal may be dropped as it appears it has no chance. Shame!

It really needs dropped tomorrow.
They are embarrasing themselves so much i doubt they can live this down.

[Joe6-2]

She's got a smokers mooth

Sent from my LG-H840 using Tapatalk

She’s got a big mooth

[GreenCastle]

The funds for 5 years quote is going to come back and bite her in the arse.

Also they are really annoying quite a few clubs in Scotland - not doing themselves any favours.

Becoming more and more like their big hun cousins by the day - saying no one likes us and we don’t care.

[jacomo]

Nobody over on way back is even questioning this it is a non story. They are still very well off and the only team outside Celtic guaranteed to have funds to start next season. They are a strange bunch surely this should have the alarm bells ringing?


Multi-millionaire Budge with wealthy benefactors will happily take the FOH cash but seems unconcerned about Hearts supporters who might be in real financial difficulties right now.

Charming behaviour.

[ferry hibby]

Donald Findlay has rolled down his trouser leg and got stuck in........

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52840999

sticking the boot in but wonder if he would take the cash to represent them in court.

[Irish_Steve]

sticking the boot in but wonder if he would take the cash to represent them in court.

He should and then do a thoroughly useless job of representing them lol

[matty_f]

I think she's missing the fact that it's only get opinion that her proposal is the only thing standing between Scottish football and Armageddon.

It's nonsense - there are loads of things that can and will happen to stop a catastrophe in Scottish football. A ridiculously convoluted 14 team league, with possible play offs for a Euro competition, and extra games which might make up money but realistically won't, and then the prospect of relegating however many teams in two years is probably the LAST thing that we need, never mind the answer to all the problems.

[007]

Nobody over on way back is even questioning this it is a non story. They are still very well off and the only team outside Celtic guaranteed to have funds to start next season. They are a strange bunch surely this should have the alarm bells ringing?

You'd have thought at the very least she'd have offered a refund to the "genuine supporters".

[Kaff]

The big mistake they've made on not offering refunds is the potential that anybody purchasing this seasons ST will be wary about any problems in fulfilling the fixtures for the 20/21 season. At Hibs it's been shown that if there's a shortage on the games played then a commensurate amount will be returned if asked for, therefore buy your ST without the concern that a ridiculously low number of games are played and you've no chance of getting any cash back, no matter how hard up you may be.
At Hearts they haven't got that comfort, will that have an affect on sales? Saving a few quid could ultimately cost them precious cash flow.

[007]

The big mistake they've made on not offering refunds is the potential that anybody purchasing this seasons ST will be wary about any problems in fulfilling the fixtures for the 20/21 season. At Hibs it's been shown that if there's a shortage on the games played then a commensurate amount will be returned if asked for, therefore buy your ST without the concern that a ridiculously low number of games are played and you've no chance of getting any cash back, no matter how hard up you may be.
At Hearts they haven't got that comfort, will that have an affect on sales? Saving a few quid could ultimately cost them precious cash flow.

They did say their season ticket guarantees 18 home games even if it has to be carried forward into season 21/22, which is a decent offer.

[Kojock]

sticking the boot in but wonder if he would take the cash to represent them in court.

He wouldn’t be allowed to. Conflict of interests.

[Kaff]

They did say their season ticket guarantees 18 home games even if it has to be carried forward into season 21/22, which is a decent offer.

Thanks, I had missed that.
Ultimately I do think saving the small amount they'd have had to pay out on refunds will cost them.
Well played to our board in recognising there may be a small number of people with genuine money problems needing the refund and quite often the handful of those that will ask for the sake of it would belly ache and make accusations akin to the 'pyramid scheme', its just a very sensible and fair approach to the situation.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200528/02f63ed6c73afa984efa28492828debe.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[scm70nyd1973]

https://twitter.com/scotlandsky/status/1266049598541434881?s=21

Seems wee Budgie is after that happening too. I don’t see why they’d declare it an emergency just to ensure Hearts stay up this late in the day. It would’ve happened before now if they wanted to save them. It’s up to the clubs to decide.

Is it just me or does she not scarily look like Mercer in that vid 🤭😱

[007]

Thanks, I had missed that.
Ultimately I do think saving the small amount they'd have had to pay out on refunds will cost them.
Well played to our board in recognising there may be a small number of people with genuine money problems needing the refund and quite often the handful of those that will ask for the sake of it would belly ache and make accusations akin to the 'pyramid scheme', its just a very sensible and fair approach to the situation.

It's the boasting about the benefactor and extra foh donators one day and then 2 days later they can't afford to offer refunds that just doesn't seem to add up.

[Greenworld]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200528/02f63ed6c73afa984efa28492828debe.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI've been mentioning this meeting a few times . The Sfa - SPFL can kill everything stone dead if the meeting goes well tomorrow hence the calmness from them on Hearts proposal



Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

I've been mentioning this meeting a few times . The Sfa - SPFL can kill everything stone dead if the meeting goes well tomorrow hence the calmness from them on Hearts proposal



Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

I think we’ll start on time. I think SG will provide testing and I think the clubs will get the stadiums ready for socially distanced crowds.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[greenpaper55]

'Kickbackers are going nuts at the thought of "diddy" clubs as they call them daring to vote down Budge's proposal, i thought the whole point of the exercise was to help the "diddy" clubs as well as Hearts of course through this crisis ?

[007]

They might still have had a chance of getting into the top league under an enforced reconstruction depending on what happens regarding the number of clubs able to play.

However, I'd say the bridges have been burnt on that score due to the arrogance, blatant disregard for other clubs' situation, self-interest, bullying (as stated by Jim McInally) and self-righteously superior attitude. Showing humility and being humble would have been the correct approach but that's not in their character.

If they now get into the Premiership via the back door there will be a massive uproar and not just from Hibs fans. The clubs that have been disrespected will be rocketing up the statement league.

[Hibeesmad]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200528/02f63ed6c73afa984efa28492828debe.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Scottish Cup to be carried out in the next couple of months if this gets the go ahead?

[we are hibs]

I see silly season has begun anyway. Daily Record claiming Harry Redknapp wanted to buy Airdrie 😂

[jacomo]

Scottish Cup to be carried out in the next couple of months if this gets the go ahead?


Nah, I reckon scottish cup will be played August and September.

[Glory Lurker]

Let's just bin the Cup. It's a stick on the Hearts would go and win it.

[Bostonhibby]

I see silly season has begun anyway. Daily Record claiming Harry Redknapp wanted to buy Airdrie [emoji23]Are we talking Airdrieonians here, or buying the whole town of Airdrie?

Might cost about the same and maybe Harry's looking for somewhere to keep his dog now that Monaco's got a bit too hot for it[emoji6]

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Col2]

Yet more drivel. Her argument is based on restriction of trade. How has that got anything to do with relegation. It’s to do with Covid-19.

This is a scatter gun say as much ***** to the press and hope she manages to get something out of it. She knows she has lost.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/ann-budge-i-will-take-legal-action-if-hearts-are-relegated-itd-be-restriction-trade-2868046

[Since90+2]

Heart of Midlothian - It's never your fault.

[Waxy]

Yet more drivel. Her argument is based on restriction of trade. How has that got anything to do with relegation. It’s to do with Covid-19.

This is a scatter gun say as much ***** to the press and hope she manages to get something out of it. She knows she has lost.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/ann-budge-i-will-take-legal-action-if-hearts-are-relegated-itd-be-restriction-trade-2868046

Restricting trade in what? She needs help.
If hearts are relegated? What?
They’ve already been relegated.

[Heisenberg]

So today we’ve had the following from AB;

- Threaten legal action (again)
- Blame the SPFL voting process
- Vaguely stretch for the SPFL to intervene as their relegation is an emergency despite not knowing the rules involved whatsoever
- Made up bid for her club

Good days work, will surely be winning round votes for her proposal by the hour.

[Hibeesmad]

I see silly season has begun anyway. Daily Record claiming Harry Redknapp wanted to buy Airdrie 😂

I watched Redknapp's Home Fixture on Sky the other day and he did mention wanting to buy a small club.

[JimBHibees]

Heart of Midlothian - It's never your fault.

Yep always the victim it's never your fault.

[Waxy]

The “wee” clubs are voting against her silly reconsavehearts anyway.
Time for legal action and the final epic fail.

[easty]

A restriction of trade...that’s an absolute belter.

Even by hearts deluded standards, that’s brilliant.

[hibbyfraelibby]

They did say their season ticket guarantees 18 home games even if it has to be carried forward into season 21/22, which is a decent offer.

They'll get two Championship seasons worth with that offer if her hyped armagedon prophesy is to be believed. Bargain!

[Dashing Bob S]

They should be allowed to compete in the champions league. There were still 8 games to go and Hearts would compete in at least a few of them so never knowing what could happen. At least it wouldn’t be restraint of trade and we don’t want that, no no no

[hibbyfraelibby]

I watched Redknapp's Home Fixture on Sky the other day and he did mention wanting to buy a small club.

There's a Tiny club might be going cheap I know of if he's interested...

[BoomtownHibees]

She’s now threatening legal action if they are in the Championship due to a restriction of trade if games can’t be played. Give it up woman!!!

[Not In The Know]

Wonder if that glass wall came in on budget?
The botanical gardens view suite 🤣

[NC1875]

She’s now threatening legal action if they are in the Championship due to a restriction of trade if games can’t be played. Give it up woman!!!

Someone needs to take her aside and tell her to calm down. Crazy old cow

[Glory Lurker]

I'm beginning to think Hearts are just trying to save themselves, rather than wanting to help other teams. Call me crazy if you want.

[BoomtownHibees]

I'm beginning to think Hearts are just trying to save themselves, rather than wanting to help other teams. Call me crazy if you want.

What makes you think that?

[007]

Yet more drivel. Her argument is based on restriction of trade. How has that got anything to do with relegation. It’s to do with Covid-19.

This is a scatter gun say as much ***** to the press and hope she manages to get something out of it. She knows she has lost.

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/ann-budge-i-will-take-legal-action-if-hearts-are-relegated-itd-be-restriction-trade-2868046

Seems like yet another threat in an attempt to coerce clubs to vote for reconstruction. Can't imagine it will persuade anyone to change their mind. Maybe if it had been a proper proposal and not something full of ifs, buts and maybes then the clubs could have voted on it. Hopefully the outcome from next week will put the reconstruction fiasco to bed and she can kick off the court proceedings on Tuesday morning.

It appears to have switched from the duty of care angle which seems to have been dropped. I wonder what made them see sense and realise that would be chucked out of court. They taking Nicola Sturgeon to court now for restricting their trade are they?

[matty_f]

I wish they'd just **** off already.

Relegation was supposed to be hilarious but it's just tedious now. Boring, cardigan wearing, Rover driving, Duncan *******s take the fun out of everything.

[Hibeesmad]

I see silly season has begun anyway. Daily Record claiming Harry Redknapp wanted to buy Airdrie 😂

The Sun now reporting with quotes from Redknapp that he has no interest in buying Airdrie 😂

[Sammy7nil]

The Sun now reporting with quotes from Redknapp that he has no interest in buying Airdrie 😂

My neighbour tried to buy Airdrie offered 3 kit kats and a bottle of Lucozade. I am told they are still considering the offer.

[RyeSloan]

I wish they'd just **** off already.

Relegation was supposed to be hilarious but it's just tedious now. Boring, cardigan wearing, Rover driving, Duncan *******s take the fun out of everything.

I agree on the reconstruction thing...sooner that’s finally put to be the better.

But I’d be well up for her going down the legal angle, that will be a hoot for sure. Esp. If she is intending on taking the Scottish government to court on restriction of trade!

[scm70nyd1973]

I wish they'd just **** off already.

Relegation was supposed to be hilarious but it's just tedious now. Boring, cardigan wearing, Rover driving, Duncan *******s take the fun out of everything.

It was great fun for a while and then it looked like they had been given a lifeline - since then it has not been good for our stress levels in such difficult and unprecedented times.

Mibbies we Hibbys need to start a class action against them and seek compo for pain,suffering and loss of hilarity.

Let’s face it oor case would have a much better chance of getting off the ground than theirs by way of passing any early law debate on validity.

So -as we are the wee club and only have 399,999 fans compared with theirs, then if we each sue for say a tenner each then we would get a decent sum back which we could donate to one Edinburgh football club - let’s say the one that has won a major trophy since they supposedly died in 2012 ?

PS - warning that any Jambo looking in will be in a panic as they will think that I might actually be serious - but wait a minute maybe ..... 🤔

[hibbydog]

Reconstruction isn’t necessarily a bad idea but when it’s promoted by the very cub it’s designed to save from relegation it loses all credibility.

So it’s not going to happen.

Ann Budge is making a royal fool of herself and looking increasingly desperate.

It’s what you’d expect from them - classless, self interested, undignified, selfish losers.

[cocteautwin]

I agree on all counts. The analysis I did previously showed £8.8m of income from Benny over last 3 years & without that they would have made a loss of £1.7m in that period. Discounting profit on sale of players the loss averaged nearly £1m per season for last 3. If your numbers are correct, & I think you're in the ballpark then they're losing up to £3m a year on routine trading activities. No wonder Budgie's in a state!

Yes, your £8.8m is correct, I then added on an extra £0.5m that is disclosed in the going concern note that was contributed by the benefactor after 30 June to get to the £9.2m (rounded). I'm almost certain that an extra £4m or £5m will need to have been injected in the current financial year to see them to the end of this season. Their club is a financial disaster and it's only going to get worse in the Championship. Some big injections needed.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

I'm beginning to think Hearts are just trying to save themselves, rather than wanting to help other teams. Call me crazy if you want.

But their the saviours of Scottish football and the premier league needs hearts

We’re lucky to have them in our lives...

[Onion]

She’s now threatening legal action if they are in the Championship due to a restriction of trade if games can’t be played. Give it up woman!!!

Who's she going to sue ? The Government ? God ?

So you fully participate in an open democratic process where you're given a key role in framing a proposal. During the process, you threaten the other members with legal action if they refuse to vote it through. After it's presented and rejected for good reasons, you then complain about the voting process and take the fellow members to court - partly because a global pandemic makes games unviable.

You couldn't make it up. Hearts have overtaken Sevco as the most Stupid Club in the World.

Come on Sevco, you're not just going to sit there and allow that :thumbsup:

[Peevemor]

I wish there was a way to expel them for real if they sue the SPFL and lose. Let them apply to the East of Scotland League or whatever it is.

Then we'd see if they really think they have a case.

[southern hibby]

Judge:- So let me get this straight Anne you voted against league reconstruction for the lower leagues as you felt it was unfair and unjust?

Anne:- Yes my Lord.

Judge:- However ( please correct me if I’m wrong ) after this vote was taken and passed by the vast majority of league teams, there was then the following week a vote to end the premier league in Scotland?

Anne:- Yes my Lord.

Judge:- Now my understanding is ( again please correct me if I’m wrong ) the it was a unanimous decision by all voting clubs to end the league and Hearts voted for this to happen?

Anne:- Yes my Lord.

Judge:- So how can you possibly imagine you have a winnable case? in-fact let’s discuss this just a little bit more in my chambers.

Judge ( To Anne’s Lawyer ) :- I don’t think there is a case to answer, in fact you are wasting my time, court time and your own time on this fools errand.

Anne:- But, but, but.

Judge ( back in court ):- Awards fees from Hearts to SPFL legal team.

next day Kick back:- Judge never knew what he was talking about, it’s for the establishment clubs, Judge is a known season ticket holder at Hibs fact as I’m his next door neighbours best mate.

Stendal ( Next Day ):- Anne, so now that we are relegated does that mean I’m free to get a new club?

Anne:- we wern’t Relegated we were expelled, but yes Jurgen your now free to move to another club.

Stendal:- Ya dancerrrrr and one last thing.

Anne:- What’s that?

Stendal:- You canny see the castle from the roof top verandah.


GGTTH.

[Mikey]

She’s now threatening legal action if they are in the Championship due to a restriction of trade if games can’t be played. Give it up woman!!!

That crackpot idea has surely come from the desk of Edinburgh's top lawyer Leslie Deans.

[Waxy]

If all this didn't happen and every fan was asked do we need reconstruction? I reckon a huge percentage (81% or more) would keep the prem at 12 clubs.
Anyone saying yes would bump up the number to 16 or 18 clubs.No one would say 14 (one person might).Wonder what the percentage of leagues in the world have 14 clubs and if so how do they play out the season?


Edit only one i can find is Denmark who seem to have the strange split.I read a bit about it and all i can say is its a bit weird.Split top 6 after 26 games.Bottom 8 go into a strange complicated run of games which end with a series of knockout matches.
Glad we're no them.

[Sir David Gray]

If all this didn't happen and every fan was asked do we need reconstruction? I reckon a huge percentage (81% or more) would keep the prem at 12 clubs.
Anyone saying yes would bump up the number to 16 or 18 clubs.No one would say 14 (one person might).Wonder what the percentage of leagues in the world have 14 clubs and if so how do they play out the season?

Bulgaria, Denmark, Greece, Israel, Luxembourg, Malta and Romania all have 14 team leagues within the UEFA countries.

[JimBHibees]

That crackpot idea has surely come from the desk of Edinburgh's top lawyer Leslie Deans.

Conveyancer :greengrin

[calumhibee1]

Does she not realise how thick she looks bringing up a new grievance/reason for reconstruction every time her previous one gets shot down?

We need reconstruction because it’s not fair, nobody should be punished - shot down, then move onto;

We need reconstruction because Scottish football will collapse without the mighty Hearts in the top tier - shot down, then move onto;

This voting structure is a farce. I’ve never mentioned it before but because it doesn’t suit me now it’s not fit for purpose - now move on to;

You can’t relegate Hearts! That’ll be a restriction of trade.

Stupid auld bat.

[Waxy]

Bulgaria, Denmark, Greece, Israel, Luxembourg, Malta and Romania all have 14 team leagues within the UEFA countries.
Yes, they seem to all have a weird relegation playoff system.If you get caught 7th or down at 26 games you could be in trouble.

[Aldo]

I wish there was a way to expel them for real if they sue the SPFL and lose. Let them apply to the East of Scotland League or whatever it is.

Then we'd see if they really think they have a case.

I just want to see them implode and go Pop! Having read what has been said by her over the last few days it’s clear desperation is kicking into another level. Other clubs ?? Have said they deserve compensation?? Which ones Anne?? Name them??

She doesn’t want to take legal action but this might just drift on and on causing issues with the restart etc..... now this is the bit for me that shows exactly what this shameless and classless club are all about. They will be more than happy to try and halt the season because they cannot get their own way. she is using this threat to get her own way.

Horrible classless club and owner.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Sir David Gray]

Yes, they seem to all have a weird relegation playoff system.If you get caught 7th or down at 26 games you could be in trouble.

Interestingly Greece used to have a 16 team league and reduced it to 14 teams for the 2019-20 season.

[WhileTheChief..]

I wish there was a way to expel them for real if they sue the SPFL and lose. Let them apply to the East of Scotland League or whatever it is.

Then we'd see if they really think they have a case.

Yeah I was thinking along similar lines.

Couldn't a club propose to expel them, like actually expel them from the league altogether, and the rest take a vote?

Or the other clubs take legal action against them for being a royal pain in the ass or whatever the legal term is?!

[Waxy]

Interestingly Greece used to have a 16 team league and reduced it to 14 teams for the 2019-20 season.

Could have been through necessity.
Greece has had weird football problems lately with financial regularities going on.

[El Gubbz]

If all this didn't happen and every fan was asked do we need reconstruction? I reckon a huge percentage (81% or more) would keep the prem at 12 clubs.
Anyone saying yes would bump up the number to 16 or 18 clubs.No one would say 14 (one person might).Wonder what the percentage of leagues in the world have 14 clubs and if so how do they play out the season?

Edit only one i can find is Denmark who seem to have the strange split.I read a bit about it and all i can say is its a bit weird.Split top 6 after 26 games.Bottom 8 go into a strange complicated run of games which end with a series of knockout matches.
Glad we're no them.

It’s not that complicated and if we ended up with 14 one day it’s maybe the way to go.

Top 6 play each other Home and Away - 36 total games and gets the 4 Old Firms 🤢

2nd - Europe
3rd - Europe
4th - European Play off final
5th and 6th - hard luck

Bottom 8 splits into 2 groups of 4. Teams play each other home and away taking them up to 32 games. Within each group the top 2 teams qualify for a European play off (Quarter Final) and the bottom 2 qualify for relegation play offs.

The playoffs are knockout with the 4 European play off teams drawn against each other to play Home and Away before the winner of the Semi Final plays the team that finished 4th.

Seems extremely harsh on 5th and 6th so maybe a way we could play about with it but I think European play offs for the extra spot could be a game changer in Scotland. Attendances will be up for the clubs aiming for a play off spot as the season winds down and then the play offs themselves would likely be near sell outs and great TV games to sell to a broadcaster

Maybe is a wee bit complicated but far superior to the set up here - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_Danish_Superliga

[Waxy]

It’s not that complicated and if we ended up with 14 one day it’s maybe the way to go.

Top 6 play each other Home and Away - 36 total games and gets the 4 Old Firms 🤢

2nd - Europe
3rd - Europe
4th - European Play off final
5th and 6th - hard luck

Bottom 8 splits into 2 groups of 4. Teams play each other home and away taking them up to 32 games. Within each group the top 2 teams qualify for a European play off (Quarter Final) and the bottom 2 qualify for relegation play offs.

The playoffs are knockout with the 4 European play off teams drawn against each other to play Home and Away before the winner of the Semi Final plays the team that finished 4th.

Seems extremely harsh on 5th and 6th so maybe a way we could play about with it but I think European play offs for the extra spot could be a game changer in Scotland. Attendances will be up for the clubs aiming for a play off spot as the season winds down and then the play offs themselves would likely be near sell outs and great TV games to sell to a broadcaster

Maybe is a wee bit complicated but far superior to the set up here - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_Danish_Superliga

What we have now is way way better.

[El Gubbz]

What we have now is way way better.

It’s boring AF but fair enough

[Bostonhibby]

I'm beginning to think Hearts are just trying to save themselves, rather than wanting to help other teams. Call me crazy if you want.You could be onto something here, especially with so many of the Championship, league one and league two clubs saying they prefer not to be "saved" by Mrs doctor Budge.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[weecounty hibby]

It’s boring AF but fair enough

That's just not true. This year has been an exciting season with all of the important places all up for grabs pretty much until the season had to be completed. Last season was ok and the season before was excellent and the most exciting I can remember

[G B Young]

Probably already been posted but Donald Findlay was spot on yesterday with his comments about the yams:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52840999

[nonshinyfinish]

Don't like the European play-off idea at all, it's crap for the 4th, 5th and 6th place teams. 5th and 6th don't even get a shot despite performing better over the season than the teams below them, and 4th can potentially have the reward for a great season snatched away with a single poor performance.

You can argue that the Euro place from the cup is similarly unfair on the team that just misses out in the league, but there at least it's a separate competition, rather than losing out on a league-based Euro place to a team that you have outperformed in the league. And if the cup setup is deemed unfair, you don't improve the situation by awarding another European place in an unfair manner.

Ultimately I think this kind of setup feels contrived precisely because that's what is: an attempt to inject excitement into a league size that just doesn't quite work. For all its detractors, the split in the 12-team league works well, and that's partly because it happens late in the season and so there's no need to artificially add interest to the lower section.

[SideBurns]

Probably already been posted but Donald Findlay was spot on yesterday with his comments about the yams:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52840999

Whatever anyone thinks of Donald Findlay, he's never been scared to speak his mind and hits the nail on the head as you say.

[Keith_M]

Whatever anyone thinks of Donald Findlay, he's never been scared to speak his mind and hits the nail on the head as you say.


What does he have to say about a bigoted lawyer with no scruples taking millions from the Taxpayer?


"The 67-year-old advocate was paid £389,000 for his services between 1 April 2017 and 31 March 2018, a rise of £27,000 from a year earlier.
...
The fees were part of a legal assistance bill to taxpayers totalling £124.4m, down from £135.7m a year earlier.
...
Mr Findlay has taken the top slot several times in his 40-year career, including in 2016 when he was paid £288,000."

The Scotsman (https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/scottish-lawyer-donald-findlay-tops-legal-aid-earnings-list-1425293)


He might claim to be up to his knees in Fenian blood, but he's actually up to his knees in our hard earned money.

[Jdawg]

What does he have to say about a bigoted lawyer with no scruples taking millions from the Taxpayer?


"The 67-year-old advocate was paid £389,000 for his services between 1 April 2017 and 31 March 2018, a rise of £27,000 from a year earlier.
...
The fees were part of a legal assistance bill to taxpayers totalling £124.4m, down from £135.7m a year earlier.
...
Mr Findlay has taken the top slot several times in his 40-year career, including in 2016 when he was paid £288,000."

The Scotsman (https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/scottish-lawyer-donald-findlay-tops-legal-aid-earnings-list-1425293)


He might claim to be up to his knees in Fenian blood, but he's actually up to his knees in our hard earned money.

He is a QC of the upmost quality.

[CapitalGreen]

What does he have to say about a bigoted lawyer with no scruples taking millions from the Taxpayer?


"The 67-year-old advocate was paid £389,000 for his services between 1 April 2017 and 31 March 2018, a rise of £27,000 from a year earlier.
...
The fees were part of a legal assistance bill to taxpayers totalling £124.4m, down from £135.7m a year earlier.
...
Mr Findlay has taken the top slot several times in his 40-year career, including in 2016 when he was paid £288,000."

The Scotsman (https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/scottish-lawyer-donald-findlay-tops-legal-aid-earnings-list-1425293)


He might claim to be up to his knees in Fenian blood, but he's actually up to his knees in our hard earned money.

Despite his questionable song choices in the past, he is actually very good at his job.

[lucky]

What does he have to say about a bigoted lawyer with no scruples taking millions from the Taxpayer?


"The 67-year-old advocate was paid £389,000 for his services between 1 April 2017 and 31 March 2018, a rise of £27,000 from a year earlier.
...
The fees were part of a legal assistance bill to taxpayers totalling £124.4m, down from £135.7m a year earlier.
...
Mr Findlay has taken the top slot several times in his 40-year career, including in 2016 when he was paid £288,000."

The Scotsman (https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/scottish-lawyer-donald-findlay-tops-legal-aid-earnings-list-1425293)


He might claim to be up to his knees in Fenian blood, but he's actually up to his knees in our hard earned money.

His political views maybe a bit sectarian but he is one of Scotland’s top QCs who gets the same going rate as the rest of them but clearly puts the hours in. Interestingly he’s not gave a legal view of Budgies threat to go to court.

[CropleyWasGod]

Despite his questionable song choices in the past, he is actually very good at his job.

Yep.

Legal Aid has its faults, of course, but it does give access to the judicial process for those who can least afford it. I don't think I would be happy to live in a society that didn't have that safety net.

[chippy]

Don't like the European play-off idea at all, it's crap for the 4th, 5th and 6th place teams. 5th and 6th don't even get a shot despite performing better over the season than the teams below them, and 4th can potentially have the reward for a great season snatched away with a single poor performance.

You can argue that the Euro place from the cup is similarly unfair on the team that just misses out in the league, but there at least it's a separate competition, rather than losing out on a league-based Euro place to a team that you have outperformed in the league. And if the cup setup is deemed unfair, you don't improve the situation by awarding another European place in an unfair manner.

Ultimately I think this kind of setup feels contrived precisely because that's what is: an attempt to inject excitement into a league size that just doesn't quite work. For all its detractors, the split in the 12-team league works well, and that's partly because it happens late in the season and so there's no need to artificially add interest to the lower section.

I’ve not heard many before suggesting the 12 club split works well. That aside, arguments for a 14 team league ( not to save Hearts) are often about reducing the relegation fear factor for everyone outside the old firm. Giving teams some breathing space perhaps to play some younger talent and possibly more attacking football. No one can scientifically demonstrate that thought, it would need tested in practice for certainly more than 2 seasons , I’d suggest 4 minimum. If it fails on key targets , then go back to 12 or whatever. Of course the spilt you describe above is contrived. One large league is deemed by many to be be unsustainable and the existential ‘need’ to have 4 old firm games requires a split in anything above a 10 club league. I also take your point re the unfairness of the Euro place play offs, but the same stands for promotion places or relegation play of places. However I think a better solution is for the bottom 8 to continue and play 14 games each. The winner goes into the Euro play offs with 5 and 6. If the Cup winner is from outside the top 4 only then would 4th be in the play offs.

[SideBurns]

What does he have to say about a bigoted lawyer with no scruples taking millions from the Taxpayer?


"The 67-year-old advocate was paid £389,000 for his services between 1 April 2017 and 31 March 2018, a rise of £27,000 from a year earlier.
...
The fees were part of a legal assistance bill to taxpayers totalling £124.4m, down from £135.7m a year earlier.
...
Mr Findlay has taken the top slot several times in his 40-year career, including in 2016 when he was paid £288,000."

The Scotsman (https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/scottish-lawyer-donald-findlay-tops-legal-aid-earnings-list-1425293)


He might claim to be up to his knees in Fenian blood, but he's actually up to his knees in our hard earned money.

As others have pointed out, he is paid from the legal aid fund to defend those unable to finance their own defence to the most serious charges in the High Court. He can't just charge whatever he likes - the fees are fixed under the legal aid regulations which have been passed in Parliament.

[Mon Dieu4]

What does he have to say about a bigoted lawyer with no scruples taking millions from the Taxpayer?


"The 67-year-old advocate was paid £389,000 for his services between 1 April 2017 and 31 March 2018, a rise of £27,000 from a year earlier.
...
The fees were part of a legal assistance bill to taxpayers totalling £124.4m, down from £135.7m a year earlier.
...
Mr Findlay has taken the top slot several times in his 40-year career, including in 2016 when he was paid £288,000."

The Scotsman (https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/scottish-lawyer-donald-findlay-tops-legal-aid-earnings-list-1425293)


He might claim to be up to his knees in Fenian blood, but he's actually up to his knees in our hard earned money.

As someone who was on jury duty when he was the defence lawyer I can tell you that as much as I hate his views I would be delighted to have him defending me

[Brightside]

What does he have to say about a bigoted lawyer with no scruples taking millions from the Taxpayer?


"The 67-year-old advocate was paid £389,000 for his services between 1 April 2017 and 31 March 2018, a rise of £27,000 from a year earlier.
...
The fees were part of a legal assistance bill to taxpayers totalling £124.4m, down from £135.7m a year earlier.
...
Mr Findlay has taken the top slot several times in his 40-year career, including in 2016 when he was paid £288,000."

The Scotsman (https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/scottish-lawyer-donald-findlay-tops-legal-aid-earnings-list-1425293)


He might claim to be up to his knees in Fenian blood, but he's actually up to his knees in our hard earned money.

Thats his job.

[Tom Hart RIP]

Noticed that Ann Budge is citing restriction of trade as her reason for taking this to court. Surely if Hearts Dundee Utd and ICT are in top flight next season that will restrict every other club in the Championship from playing if they can’t get enough teams or am
I missing something?

[Brightside]

Noticed that Ann Budge is citing restriction of trade as her reason for taking this to court. Surely if Hearts Dundee Utd and ICT are in top flight next season that will restrict every other club in the Championship from playing if they can’t get enough teams or am
I missing something?

She is claiming restriction of trade as they have been "forced" down to a lower league without all the games having been completed. Her view is that is unlawful.

[jacomo]

I’ve not heard many before suggesting the 12 club split works well. That aside, arguments for a 14 team league ( not to save Hearts) are often about reducing the relegation fear factor for everyone outside the old firm. Giving teams some breathing space perhaps to play some younger talent and possibly more attacking football. No one can scientifically demonstrate that thought, it would need tested in practice for certainly more than 2 seasons , I’d suggest 4 minimum. If it fails on key targets , then go back to 12 or whatever. Of course the spilt you describe above is contrived. One large league is deemed by many to be be unsustainable and the existential ‘need’ to have 4 old firm games requires a split in anything above a 10 club league. I also take your point re the unfairness of the Euro place play offs, but the same stands for promotion places or relegation play of places. However I think a better solution is for the bottom 8 to continue and play 14 games each. The winner goes into the Euro play offs with 5 and 6. If the Cup winner is from outside the top 4 only then would 4th be in the play offs.


Just accept your relegation with a tiny bit of dignity, eh?

Clubs get relegated every season, but none has acted with less class than Hearts.

[brog]

John Crace in the Guardian today says about Bojo, " the realisation is dawning that he's actually rather dim." Wait until he reads Budgie's ramblings! 😁

[nonshinyfinish]

I’ve not heard many before suggesting the 12 club split works well. That aside, arguments for a 14 team league ( not to save Hearts) are often about reducing the relegation fear factor for everyone outside the old firm. Giving teams some breathing space perhaps to play some younger talent and possibly more attacking football. No one can scientifically demonstrate that thought, it would need tested in practice for certainly more than 2 seasons , I’d suggest 4 minimum. If it fails on key targets , then go back to 12 or whatever. Of course the spilt you describe above is contrived. One large league is deemed by many to be be unsustainable and the existential ‘need’ to have 4 old firm games requires a split in anything above a 10 club league. I also take your point re the unfairness of the Euro place play offs, but the same stands for promotion places or relegation play of places. However I think a better solution is for the bottom 8 to continue and play 14 games each. The winner goes into the Euro play offs with 5 and 6. If the Cup winner is from outside the top 4 only then would 4th be in the play offs.

I'm not saying it's universally popular or anything, but I've seen/heard a decent number of people on here and elsewhere say that they like it or that they think it's the best option within the constraints of Scottish football. In particular I've often heard people (myself included) say they thought it was stupid at first but have come to like it. Playing all the teams around you right at the end of the season makes it more likely that you'll get tight races for the title/Europe/relegation and that there will be big crunch games in the last few weeks. The possible home/away imbalance is annoying of course.

If we're going to have a league of a size that requires a split, then I'm yet to hear any version that I think is better than the current setup.

That said, there are no hard numbers on this, neither of us can demonstrate the relative popularity of any option, so :dunno:

[007]

The botanical gardens view suite 🤣

She was in her maroonhouse.

[JeMeSouviens]

I am amazed at how much sense he has talked over the last few weeks. Also amazed at how much I'm beginning to like him

He was pretty fair about the Rangers liquidation and their replacement by Sevco as well.

[Bostonhibby]

She is claiming restriction of trade as they have been "forced" down to a lower league without all the games having been completed. Her view is that is unlawful.Problem is their trade is football and once the lockdown is sufficiently eased she'll be able to take her team back to playing the same as every other team, just that she doesn't want to play in the league they've qualified for.

Absolutely no special restrictions of trade being applied here.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[RyeSloan]

I'm not saying it's universally popular or anything, but I've seen/heard a decent number of people on here and elsewhere say that they like it or that they think it's the best option within the constraints of Scottish football. In particular I've often heard people (myself included) say they thought it was stupid at first but have come to like it. Playing all the teams around you right at the end of the season makes it more likely that you'll get tight races for the title/Europe/relegation and that there will be big crunch games in the last few weeks. The possible home/away imbalance is annoying of course.

If we're going to have a league of a size that requires a split, then I'm yet to hear any version that I think is better than the current setup.

That said, there are no hard numbers on this, neither of us can demonstrate the relative popularity of any option, so :dunno:

I happen to agree with you. The SPL split concept was roundly laughters at when first floated but I think it actually works quite well and has become at least accepted as an effective mechanism even if it might not be described as popular.

The 14 team split approach described above seems horrendously convoluted and goes more down the road of US play off style endings to a season...not for me in a football league I must admit.

[Mikey]

Is there much happening today? I know the SFA and SPFL want to get the go ahead for a 1st August start but is that it?

[PaulSmith]

Is there much happening today? I know the SFA and SPFL want to get the go ahead for a 1st August start but is that it?

They are meeting with the Scot Govt, today is potentially a huge day in terms of getting the go ahead to start on August 1st. If that doesn't happen then it might strengthen the position of Hearts.

[calumhibee1]

They are meeting with the Scot Govt, today is potentially a huge day in terms of getting the go ahead to start on August 1st. If that doesn't happen then it might strengthen the position of Hearts.

I’d be surprised if we don’t get the go ahead from the SG for closed doors August 1st. Most other leagues are starting in June, I think we’d find it hard to justify holding off longer.

[Mikey]

Cheers.

I see the FA Cup Final has been scheduled for 1st August.

[truehibernian]

Problem is their trade is football and once the lockdown is sufficiently eased she'll be able to take her team back to playing the same as every other team, just that she doesn't want to play in the league they've qualified for.

Absolutely no special restrictions of trade being applied here.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

There are, however they've been applied through emergency legislation cognisant of world health guidelines and expert advice :agree: Football is one industry out of hundreds that have been restricted (and rightly so given the risk to public health) - this over rides everything ultimately and no court in any land would contemplate such an action being progressed/successful.

More interesting is they've moved away from their previous 'duty of care' argument, which as stated, was an ill thought out, 'back of a fag packet' stance which will (or would) never have materialised.

In short, their goose is cooked.

[EI255]

When is the medicine being dished out? Put these tramps out their misery [emoji4]

Sent from my LG-H840 using Tapatalk

[where'stheslope]

Cheers.

I see the FA Cup Final has been scheduled for 1st August.
Any up date on our Semi and Final????
Or have we just torn up the season end off!!!!

[Mikey]

Any up date on our Semi and Final????
Or have we just torn up the season end off!!!!

Last I heard it was still going ahead, no timescale yet though.

We may hear more later today.

[Waxy]

Noticed that Ann Budge is citing restriction of trade as her reason for taking this to court. Surely if Hearts Dundee Utd and ICT are in top flight next season that will restrict every other club in the Championship from playing if they can’t get enough teams or am
I missing something?

And if she wins then all the clubs can then sue each other for restriction of trade? She needs a course of three or four tablets.

[mjhibby]

Surely Doncaster can go to sturgeon and ask if the Scottish govt could cover testing costs for the lower leagues and give the leagues money to get their season started even say 50% of their wages. Hertz would maybe need a different funding structure and of course as they are fine financially.I’m sure clubs would accept half money till they can then play games in front of crowds. It’s not in anybody’s interest for any club to go to the wall given how much it helps local businesses. I’d hope local businesses could help keep the lower leagues going. Seems to be a lack of pro active behaviour going on and more heads in the sand. Scottish football as a whole needs to face up to how we get through this.

[Blaster]

Surely Doncaster can go to sturgeon and ask if the Scottish govt could cover testing costs for the lower leagues and give the leagues money to get their season started even say 50% of their wages. Hertz would maybe need a different funding structure and of course the day they are fine financially.I’m sure clubs would accept half money till they can then play games in front of crowds. It’s not in anybody’s interest for any club to go to the wall given how much it helps local businesses. I’d hope local businesses could help keep the lower leagues going. Seems to be a lack of pro active behaviour going on and more heads in the sand. Scottish football as a whole needs to face up to how we get through this.

I’m sure the SFA said last week they were looking to support the cost of testing and it wasn’t as expensive as they first feared.

[Sir David Gray]

Any up date on our Semi and Final????
Or have we just torn up the season end off!!!!

They still want to complete the Scottish Cup but only with fans so probably won't happen until next year.

[CapitalGreen]

I’ve not heard many before suggesting the 12 club split works well. That aside, arguments for a 14 team league ( not to save Hearts) are often about reducing the relegation fear factor for everyone outside the old firm. Giving teams some breathing space perhaps to play some younger talent and possibly more attacking football. No one can scientifically demonstrate that thought, it would need tested in practice for certainly more than 2 seasons , I’d suggest 4 minimum. If it fails on key targets , then go back to 12 or whatever. Of course the spilt you describe above is contrived. One large league is deemed by many to be be unsustainable and the existential ‘need’ to have 4 old firm games requires a split in anything above a 10 club league. I also take your point re the unfairness of the Euro place play offs, but the same stands for promotion places or relegation play of places. However I think a better solution is for the bottom 8 to continue and play 14 games each. The winner goes into the Euro play offs with 5 and 6. If the Cup winner is from outside the top 4 only then would 4th be in the play offs.

You’ve not heard many people saying the split works well before because for the silent majority the current set up works well. Like a lot of things in life the few people making the most noise are those who are unhappy and wanting change. Just because you see some people making a big fuss about changing the structure, doesn’t mean there isn’t a large majority of people happy with how it currently is.

[Mikey]

They still want to complete the Scottish Cup but only with fans so probably won't happen until next year.

We could easily have a situation where we're 8 or 10 games into the season and our lower league semi final opponents are just out of pre season training :hilarious

[Barney McGrew]

We could easily have a situation where we're 8 or 10 games into the season and our lower league semi final opponents are just out of pre season training :hilarious

We could quite easily have a situation where we get a bye to the final.

[Not In The Know]

Any up date on our Semi and Final????
Or have we just torn up the season end off!!!!


Because of the revenue generated by ticket sales the Semis won't be played until we are allowed full or close to capacity in stadiums.

Id guess it will be January at the earliest

[tamig]

What does he have to say about a bigoted lawyer with no scruples taking millions from the Taxpayer?


"The 67-year-old advocate was paid £389,000 for his services between 1 April 2017 and 31 March 2018, a rise of £27,000 from a year earlier.
...
The fees were part of a legal assistance bill to taxpayers totalling £124.4m, down from £135.7m a year earlier.
...
Mr Findlay has taken the top slot several times in his 40-year career, including in 2016 when he was paid £288,000."

The Scotsman (https://www.scotsman.com/news/crime/scottish-lawyer-donald-findlay-tops-legal-aid-earnings-list-1425293)


He might claim to be up to his knees in Fenian blood, but he's actually up to his knees in our hard earned money.
He defends the indefensible and comes out on top more often than not.

That’s absolutely nothing tondo with this though. He’s spot on in his view of Budge’s proposal.

[jacomo]

I’m sure the SFA said last week they were looking to support the cost of testing and it wasn’t as expensive as they first feared.


I think Budge actually wants other Scottish football clubs to go bust, so she won’t be interested in this. She is bragging about how wealthy they are but will only help other clubs if relegation is reversed.

Best thing would be for Hearts to just accept their fate and then the grown ups can get on with planning for the restart.

[AltheHibby]

He defends the indefensible and comes out on top more often than not.

That’s absolutely nothing tondo with this though. He’s spot on in his view of Budge’s proposal.

Just re-reading the original post. It's a bit 'clickbaitish'. The money would go to the form and he would be paid a percentage. Office and staff costs will be paid from the income.

[Scotty Leither]

She is claiming restriction of trade as they have been "forced" down to a lower league without all the games having been completed. Her view is that is unlawful.

That sounds like the Conveyancer has been in her ear again with that latest pearl of wisdom...honestly, these brilliant legal minds at Tynecastle.

You've got to take your Cossack hat off to them sometimes, you really do.

[NadeAteMyLunch!]

It’s not that complicated and if we ended up with 14 one day it’s maybe the way to go.

Top 6 play each other Home and Away - 36 total games and gets the 4 Old Firms [emoji1785]

2nd - Europe
3rd - Europe
4th - European Play off final
5th and 6th - hard luck

Bottom 8 splits into 2 groups of 4. Teams play each other home and away taking them up to 32 games. Within each group the top 2 teams qualify for a European play off (Quarter Final) and the bottom 2 qualify for relegation play offs.

The playoffs are knockout with the 4 European play off teams drawn against each other to play Home and Away before the winner of the Semi Final plays the team that finished 4th.

Seems extremely harsh on 5th and 6th so maybe a way we could play about with it but I think European play offs for the extra spot could be a game changer in Scotland. Attendances will be up for the clubs aiming for a play off spot as the season winds down and then the play offs themselves would likely be near sell outs and great TV games to sell to a broadcaster

Maybe is a wee bit complicated but far superior to the set up here - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/2018–19_Danish_Superliga

Surely we can’t get in to a situation where the team finishing 8th gets a crack at Europe but the team finishing 5th don’t? That can’t be right

[04Sauzee]

Surely we can’t get in to a situation where the team finishing 8th gets a crack at Europe but the team finishing 5th don’t? That can’t be right

If we do get to that point but have voted for it democratically and we feel hard done by then we could just take the SPFL board to court surely

[easty]

If we do get to that point but have voted for it democratically and we feel hard done by then we could just take the SPFL board to court surely

Can’t we just do that anyway? We were expelled from the top 6, but all the games weren’t played. Mathematically we could’ve finished third. If we’re not put into Europe then it’s an obvious restriction of trade, and I say we take the SPFL and UEFA to court.

[Mikey]

We could quite easily have a situation where we get a bye to the final.

Where's Daffy? :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

Last I heard it was still going ahead, no timescale yet though.

We may hear more later today.

Seen an interview with Ian Maxwell SFA CEO who seemed to be indicating it would likely be with fans so assume initial thoughts are later in the season if poss.

[matty_f]

She is claiming restriction of trade as they have been "forced" down to a lower league without all the games having been completed. Her view is that is unlawful.

The games have all been completed though, the league agreed that.

[JimBHibees]

Because of the revenue generated by ticket sales the Semis won't be played until we are allowed full or close to capacity in stadiums.

Id guess it will be January at the earliest

Exactly this.

[southern hibby]

Genuine Question,

If the government brings in 14 days isolation as they are talking about, how will this effect European games? Will they go ahead or will there be a lot of unhappy Celtic, Newco , Motherwell and Aberdeen fans not watching their teams in Europe because the games can’t go ahead because of the 14 day rule about coming into the country?

Or will the government make an exception for sport and just let players in if the have a test?

GGTTH

[Waxy]

They are meeting with the Scot Govt, today is potentially a huge day in terms of getting the go ahead to start on August 1st. If that doesn't happen then it might strengthen the position of Hearts.

Its not about hearts. They’re a championship side like the other 9.

[green day]

Genuine Question,

If the government brings in 14 days isolation as they are talking about, how will this effect European games? Will they go ahead or will there be a lot of unhappy Celtic, Newco , Motherwell and Aberdeen fans not watching their teams in Europe because the games can’t go ahead because of the 14 day rule about coming into the country?

Or will the government make an exception for sport and just let players in if the have a test?

GGTTH

Its not just the UK govt they need to consider, if they are playing in France (for example) there is 14 days isolation there, play the game then 14 days isolation on return to the UK.

That also applies if you are going on your hols by the way.

[Bostonhibby]

There are, however they've been applied through emergency legislation cognisant of world health guidelines and expert advice :agree: Football is one industry out of hundreds that have been restricted (and rightly so given the risk to public health) - this over rides everything ultimately and no court in any land would contemplate such an action being progressed/successful.

More interesting is they've moved away from their previous 'duty of care' argument, which as stated, was an ill thought out, 'back of a fag packet' stance which will (or would) never have materialised.

In short, their goose is cooked.[emoji106]

Sorry, meant nothing exceptional being done to Hearts that would be actionable. Good luck to them with the costs associated with that litigation.

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[hibbyfraelibby]

Because of the revenue generated by ticket sales the Semis won't be played until we are allowed full or close to capacity in stadiums.

Id guess it will be January at the earliest

Right in the middle of the Winter break. Sounds a goer and cheaper than sending the teams into quarantine after trips to Bahrain etc.

[Ozyhibby]

I’m positive that the Scottish game will go ahead in August but I very much doubt cross border euro comps will go ahead. Logistically just too difficult.


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[ancient hibee]

Surely Doncaster can go to sturgeon and ask if the Scottish govt could cover testing costs for the lower leagues and give the leagues money to get their season started even say 50% of their wages. Hertz would maybe need a different funding structure and of course as they are fine financially.I’m sure clubs would accept half money till they can then play games in front of crowds. It’s not in anybody’s interest for any club to go to the wall given how much it helps local businesses. I’d hope local businesses could help keep the lower leagues going. Seems to be a lack of pro active behaviour going on and more heads in the sand. Scottish football as a whole needs to face up to how we get through this.

With businesses probably going to the wall and rising unemployment I don’t see taxpayers money being ploughed into one of the worst run businesses in the country.