NO to reconstruction

[hibeerealist]

I am not advocating it, just had a deep suspicion since the second footbsll was suspended that this is what would happen.

You say Yes (it will), I say no (it won't)!!

[Billy Whizz]

So lets say reconcstruction gets approved and 2 teams are to come up and nobody gets relegated,who is the 2nd team to get promoted??? After all ICT are only 4 pts ahead of Dundee who are only 1 pt ahead of Ayr,bearing in mind at the start of the season 2nd 3rd and 4th place was a chance for a crack at promotion,now suddenly Dundee and Ayr get told that rules have changed completely,you have no play off opportunity and you stay down despite being as far behind ICT as Hearts are behind Hamilton yet thats unfair on hearts??

Or promote 4 from Championship and Dunfermline miss out by 1 pt!

I was thinking about this earlier, even Arbroath can get into the play offs

[Onion]

If 9- 3 is all that’s required for a temporary restructure and Aberdeen are voting for it people better prepare themselves for Hibs voting to save Hearts.

As I’ve said all along this IS happening.

The demeanour of Budge should be an excellent barometer for the chances of restructuring.

Going by Wed, Thurs, Fri's unhinged outbursts, think we're definitely sitting at 0 (zero) at the moment :thumbsup:

[Liam978]

If 9- 3 is all that’s required for a temporary restructure and Aberdeen are voting for it people better prepare themselves for Hibs voting to save Hearts.

As I’ve said all along this IS happening.

I honestly hope so, it is so unfair that especially Thistle should be relegated. Can imagine the resolve the Hearts and Jag fans will have if there is a next season. SFA are conspicuous by their absence in all of this.Think maybe it is because they are hellbent on concluding the cup competition. The scenario would possibly be the same as 2016, Champion side wins the cup. So my point is, let's give them no encouragement.

[Billy Whizz]

I honestly hope so, it is so unfair that especially Thistle should be relegated. Can imagine the resolve the Hearts and Jag fans will have if there is a next season. SFA are conspicuous by their absence in all of this.Think maybe it is because they are hellbent on concluding the cup competition. The scenario would possibly be the same as 2016, Champion side wins the cup. So my point is, let's give them no encouragement.

The votes for the Premiership and lower league reconstruction are different, although can’t see them voting for 12-10-10, if there’s only 12 in the top league

[hibeerealist]

I honestly hope so, it is so unfair that especially Thistle should be relegated. Can imagine the resolve the Hearts and Jag fans will have if there is a next season. SFA are conspicuous by their absence in all of this.Think maybe it is because they are hellbent on concluding the cup competition. The scenario would possibly be the same as 2016, Champion side wins the cup. So my point is, let's give them no encouragement.


It is at least 11-1 required to enlarge the league or reconstruct the league so no sweat J, they are doon!!

[Billy Whizz]

https://www.airdriefc.com/reconstruction

Airdrie consulting their season ticket holders
Wonder if Hibs will do similar

[B.H.F.C]

https://www.airdriefc.com/reconstruction

Airdrie consulting their season ticket holders
Wonder if Hibs will do similar

No chance. But can we still have your money please?

[Sammy7nil]

It is at least 11-1 required to enlarge the league or reconstruct the league so no sweat J, they are doon!!

Said today if the prize money stays they only need 9 - 3

[Waxy]

Said today if the prize money stays they only need 9 - 3

Pretty sure any reconstruction in the top league needs 11-1.

[jacomo]

She’d be better just keeping her mouth shut. The bits in here about her wanting a quick fix aren’t going to help her. A temporary reconstruction plan will get very little support but it seems that’s all she’s after.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52338285


What’s best for Scottish football?

Your club getting relegated, Ann.

[Ozyhibby]

Said today if the prize money stays they only need 9 - 3

That only happens is the prize money for the top two in the championship then goes to the premiership with the two extra teams. That reduces the prize pot for each of the three other leagues quite a bit. Can’t see those three leagues being happy with that.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://ayrunitedfc.co.uk/chairmans-message/

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200418/c0cc4202509f834044397467c4f38a06.plist
Can we put Ayr Utd down as a NO?


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[Fifehibby74]

What about European places if the league is reconstructed. Should we just draw that out of a hat of the teams who could have mathematically achieved a European spot?
Things a joke either play the games (which ain’t gonna happen) or send them down as they are bottom.

[Jim44]

Unbelievable! They close Sportsound by saying the newly promoted teams deserve it because of their current position. Surely the reverse about relegation is true? Or am I missing something?:confused:


Just as well sportsound doesnt run Scottish football.

I’m not quite daft enough to think that a radio programme can and will decide how this will all pan out, but, listening to the first 30 minutes of Sportsound, you couldn’t help feeling that it is all about reconstruction and keeping Hearts in the Scottish Premiership. I know that the notion of reconstruction was alluded to in the original vote last weekend, but, listening to the ‘experts’ and pundits ( especially Stewart and English ) on Budgesound, it seems now that reconstruction is a foregone conclusion and only the fine details have to be considered. I just hope that there will be a groundswell of opposition to reconstruction for the sake of it and that the final outcome will be decided by all 42 clubs.

[Waxy]

https://ayrunitedfc.co.uk/chairmans-message/

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200418/c0cc4202509f834044397467c4f38a06.plist
Can we put Ayr Utd down as a NO?


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Exactly how it should be.
If they prove they’ve found the ultimate best solution then fair enough, we can go ahead.

I think we have it already for the spfl.
Its the lower leagues that should be restructured.
The bottom league could almost be doubled in size.
12 12 12 and a bigger bottom league. Protects clubs who’ve been here forever and rewards the ambitious lowland highland clubs.
18 teams playing once home and away.
A huge west of Scotland league is about to begin next season.
If there is a next season.

[B.H.F.C]

What about European places if the league is reconstructed. Should we just draw that out of a hat of the teams who could have mathematically achieved a European spot?
Things a joke either play the games (which ain’t gonna happen) or send them down as they are bottom.

League positions are decided. Reconstruction is a separate issue.

[Waxy]

I’m not quite daft enough to think that a radio programme can and will decide how this will all pan out, but, listening to the first 30 minutes of Sportsound, you couldn’t help feeling that it is all about reconstruction and keeping Hearts in the Scottish Premiership. I know that the notion of reconstruction was alluded to in the original vote last weekend, but, listening to the ‘experts’ and pundits ( especially Stewart and English ) on Budgesound, it seems now that reconstruction is a foregone conclusion and only the fine details have to be considered. I just hope that there will be a groundswell of opposition to reconstruction for the sake of it and that the final outcome will be decided by all 42 clubs.

Its just the agenda of a radio programme.It will never pass the 11-1 vote in the real world.

[ElginHibbie]

League positions are decided. Reconstruction is a separate issue.

I’m honestly starting to think the promise of looking at reconstruction was just a way to ensure they got the votes in lower leagues last week

There’s just no quick solution I can see getting the votes needed to get reconstruction through, especially reconstruction that’s only meant to be short term like Budge wants

[Since452]

https://www.airdriefc.com/reconstruction

Airdrie consulting their season ticket holders
Wonder if Hibs will do similar

If that was the case I'd want a say too and I'm not a ST holder

[Fifehibby74]

League positions are decided. Reconstruction is a separate issue.

Didn’t know that. Cheers.

But that unfairness is the same to the clubs chasing Europe as the proposed unfairness to teams getting relegated and no one is talking about that.

Read somewhere it would cost Hibs around £130k due to league position but what if we could have managed a European spot. You could be talking £500k.

This is about one things Budge saving them from the deserved drop.

[The Harp Awakes]

It is at least 11-1 required to enlarge the league or reconstruct the league so no sweat J, they are doon!!

Did a bit of digging and think you are correct. Any reconstruction proposal which increases the number of clubs in the leagues from the current 42, requires an 11-1 vote in the premiership and 75% in favour over the other 3 leagues.

If however the proposal is to reconstruct the leagues but keeping the number of clubs at 42, then the SPFL can pass an ordinary resolution requiring a 75% pass vote across all 4 leagues.

So unless Budge shafts Kelty Hearts etc, it looks like an 11-1 majority is required in the premiership.

[Billy Whizz]

If that was the case I'd want a say too and I'm not a ST holder

Then it would be open to anyone. Even Hearts fans would have been able to vote

[Waxy]

At the end of the day if hearts get relegated, deep down everyone will know that the fairest outcome possible has happened.
No chance they were staying up after St Mirren pumped them.
Hamilton only drew at tynie because the ref cheated them.

[Billy Whizz]

Did a bit of digging and think you are correct. Any reconstruction proposal which increases the number of clubs in the leagues from the current 42, requires an 11-1 vote in the premiership and 75% in favour over the other 3 leagues.

If however the proposal is to reconstruct the leagues but keeping the number of clubs at 42, then the SPFL can pass an ordinary resolution requiring a 75% pass vote across all 4 leagues.

So unless Budge shafts Kelty Hearts etc, it looks like an 11-1 majority is required in the premiership.

They definitely said 9-3 on Sportsound today, if it didn’t reduce the amount of money the top 12 would get

[Ozyhibby]

They definitely said 9-3 on Sportsound today, if it didn’t reduce the amount of money the top 12 would get

Yip. And the only way to do that is decrease money for the other three leagues.


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[dchibs]

Where are you getting this 9-3 from? Has that just been concocted today because it was 11-1 this morning.

Its always been the yams way, the more they say it the more they believe it.

[tamig]

They definitely said 9-3 on Sportsound today, if it didn’t reduce the amount of money the top 12 would get

Where did they get that from Billy? Everything I’ve heard and read about the Premiership teams vote has been about 11-1. Today is the first time this 9-3 has popped up.

[Ozyhibby]

Where did they get that from Billy? Everything I’ve heard and read about the Premiership teams vote has been about 11-1. Today is the first time this 9-3 has popped up.

It was revealed in the radio today that a 9-3 vote would be enough as long as the money distribution for the top 12 teams did not change.
The only way to do this is take the prize money for finishing 13th and 14th into the premiership.
That reduces the championship prize pot. The same happens to the other two leagues. It actually makes it a lot harder to get passed as the lower leagues are not going to vote for more money for the premier and less for them.


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[Aldo]

It was revealed in the radio today that a 9-3 vote would be enough as long as the money distribution for the top 12 teams did not change.
The only way to do this is take the prize money for finishing 13th and 14th into the premiership.
That reduces the championship prize pot. The same happens to the other two leagues. It actually makes it a lot harder to get passed as the lower leagues are not going to vote for more money for the premier and less for them.


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Even if it’s 9-3 I think it’ll be a no from St Mirren, Ross County, Livi and St J with possibly even Celtic.


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[Peevemor]

Im giving her the benefit of the doubt, but IF she votes to help out Hearts - and lets not pretend for a second that is not what is happening here - then there will be hell to pay for her and the Board, and they will risk unravelling much of the good work that they have done in the past few years.

This isn't about Hibs screwing Hearts over - this is about Hibs not bending over backwards to help Hearts out of a whole of their own making.

She would be a very naive person indeed if she though that a large chunk of the Hibs support would accept that.

Fwiw, i dont think she is that stupid.It's not she, it's we (or the club).

What do you not understand about that?

It maybe you have a problem with Leeann?

[Billy Whizz]

Yip. And the only way to do that is decrease money for the other three leagues.


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Brian McLaughlin on Sportsound this afternoon

The 11-1 vote refers to financial or contractual matters only. If you remove the financial element from any reconstruction proposal, the the vote required is 9-3.

If they were to go for Budge’s proposal (only guessing😄) 14x10x10x10 setup, the teams finishing 13th and 14th in the Premiership would get the same as 1st and 2nd get in the Championship get now.

The teams finishing 43rd and 44th get nought, would you vote for that!

[Hibs1969]

I’m all in favour of reconstruction of the leagues.

1 down from the premiership, 3 up from the championship.

Queen Ann gets her much sought after reconstruction but the Yams still fall through the trap door and get a New Years derby against Raith Rovers. Sorted.

[Billy Whizz]

Where did they get that from Billy? Everything I’ve heard and read about the Premiership teams vote has been about 11-1. Today is the first time this 9-3 has popped up.

See below. If you can listen to the podcast from this afternoon, think McLauchlin was on 1st

[Peevemor]

League positions are decided. Reconstruction is a separate issue.No they're not.

League positions are decided for the lower leagues but not the Premiership.

We have to see what UEFA say (meeting on Thursday?) and also confirm officially that it's impossible to finish the season.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Can’t believe all this turmoil and uncertainty in Scottish football to save 1 crap club from relegation with token gestures for the others affected.

[The Harp Awakes]

What an example of crass journalism this piece is from Tom English:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52338285

Rather than challenge Budge on her position, the loaded questions are cringeworthy and the entire interview comes across as a stageshow.

I used to listen to BBC Sportsound a lot but after last week's fiasco I didn't tune in today. It's like the 2014 referendum all over again with their bias - apologies for launching into politics but it still sticks in the craw:greengrin

[tamig]

See below. If you can listen to the podcast from this afternoon, think McLauchlin was on 1st

That’s bizarre also. The prize money for the top two in the Championship is about half of what you get for finishing twelfth in the top tier. Its a much bigger gap than the one between the other prem places.

[Billy Whizz]

That’s bizarre also. The prize money for the top two in the Championship is about half of what you get for finishing twelfth in the top tier. Its a much bigger gap than the one between the other prem places.

And as I said a bit earlier in the thread, Dundee Utd will push one of the lower teams in the league like Hamilton/St Mirren a bit lower
Hate to say it, but Hearts would do a lot better, can’t do any worse if they stayed in the Premiership next season, so again another team will suffer a much lower payout

[erin go bragh]

Brian McLaughlin on Sportsound this afternoon

The 11-1 vote refers to financial or contractual matters only. If you remove the financial element from any reconstruction proposal, the the vote required is 9-3.

If they were to go for Budge’s proposal (only guessing😄) 14x10x10x10 setup, the teams finishing 13th and 14th in the Premiership would get the same as 1st and 2nd get in the Championship get now.

The teams finishing 43rd and 44th get nought, would you vote for that!
Thought it was only the top flight voting ? Hence the 9-3 .
Still can’t see nine voting for reconstruction myself.

[Waxy]

Hearts would clearly overspend again to get themselves up the league with no levien to drag them down.
So they wouldnt get the championship money (small change) theyd deserve. Some other poor team would.
Wake up. The jambos are conspiring against you.

[Ozyhibby]

Thought it was only the top flight voting ? Hence the 9-3 .
Still can’t see nine voting for reconstruction myself.

No, it needs 75% of all four divisions to be in favour.


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[RoYO!]

Unbelievable! They close Sportsound by saying the newly promoted teams deserve it because of their current position. Surely the reverse about relegation is true? Or am I missing something?:confused:

Really good point. Cant just pick and choose when it suits.

[ronaldo7]

That only happens is the prize money for the top two in the championship then goes to the premiership with the two extra teams. That reduces the prize pot for each of the three other leagues quite a bit. Can’t see those three leagues being happy with that.


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Budge already has an answer for the money. The pot has increased with the new Sky deal, and she'll be telling those in the other divisions it's not a problem as their take will increase.

She's good with other peoples money.

[Joe6-2]

After getting the resolution passed and Hibs voting sensibly, I’m absolutely gutted that we are taking any part in this absolute *****.

This

[Billy Whizz]

Budge already has an answer for the money. The pot has increased with the new Sky deal, and she'll be telling those in the other divisions it's not a problem as their take will increase.

She's good with other peoples money.

Think FOH have just increased their monthly money to Hearts, but it doesn’t get them any closer to ownership Ronnie, just goes into the big hole

[Rumble de Thump]

And as I said a bit earlier in the thread, Dundee Utd will push one of the lower teams in the league like Hamilton/St Mirren a bit lower
Hate to say it, but Hearts would do a lot better, can’t do any worse if they stayed in the Premiership next season, so again another team will suffer a much lower payout

The teams remaining in the Championship will also lose out on the opportunity to win the prize money from the top two Championship places as they'll be won by the two worst placed teams in the premier league.

[Col2]

I honestly think we need a concerted effort to remind Leanne and Ron that by voting for temporary reconstruction (1-2years) will go down so badly with the fans that they will wipe out a lot of good work done to date.

I renewed on day one of season tickets. If Hibs were part of the vote to keep them in expanded (temporary) reconstruction then I would not renew. I have been a season ticket holder for 25 years without one season out.

Perm reconstruction that helps us all? Then maybe and if it can be justified but this fudge is pier and simply to save Hearts. Remember a temp reconstruction can be done in championship by increasing to 12 teams and saving Patrick. It doesn’t have to be the top league.

BBC radio coverage today was so biased. Only Willie Miller started to question it but got shouted down. I had to switch it off.

[ronaldo7]

Think FOH have just increased their monthly money to Hearts, but it doesn’t get them any closer to ownership Ronnie, just goes into the big hole

SKY Deal up to £32 Million per season. The prize money will be going up anyway, and that's what Budge will be selling.

[CMurdoch]

They definitely said 9-3 on Sportsound today, if it didn’t reduce the amount of money the top 12 would get

They did. Mrs B & Dave Cormack were both very insistent that 14 in the top league would only be temporary and that is no good to anyone other than Hearts so can't see it gaining support from any other club.
A 6/8 split after 2 rounds of games would see the top 6 lose 2 matches per season, including a home game each, which would see them lose money on the current arrangement. Accordingly it would be a hard sell for Mrs B to the bigger teams and the smaller teams will be worried about occupying the double relegation places one or two seasons later as the top league is shifted back to 12 teams again. There really is nothing in a temporary 14 for anyone other than Hearts. I say that with a complete lack of malice.

[ronaldo7]

I honestly think we need a concerted effort to remind Leanne and Ron that by voting for temporary reconstruction (1-2years) will go down so badly with the fans that they will wipe out a lot of good work done to date.

I renewed on day one of season tickets. If Hibs were part of the vote to keep them in expanded (temporary) reconstruction then I would not renew. I have been a season ticket holder for 25 years without one season out.

Perm reconstruction that helps us all? Then maybe and if it can be justified but this fudge is pier and simply to save Hearts. Remember a temp reconstruction can be done in championship by increasing to 12 teams and saving Patrick. It doesn’t have to be the top league.

BBC radio coverage today was so biased. Only Willie Miller started to question it but got shouted down. I had to switch it off.

Spot on.

If Leeann has to get involved at all, she should be putting a plan together for reconstruction of the lower leagues. BBC are covering 20 matches in the Championship next season, so they can all have their love in without bothering the big boys.

[Sioux]

Brian McLaughlin on Sportsound this afternoon

The 11-1 vote refers to financial or contractual matters only. If you remove the financial element from any reconstruction proposal, the the vote required is 9-3.

If they were to go for Budge’s proposal (only guessing😄) 14x10x10x10 setup, the teams finishing 13th and 14th in the Premiership would get the same as 1st and 2nd get in the Championship get now.

The teams finishing 43rd and 44th get nought, would you vote for that!

How can that work? The increased Sky deal will mean that the SPFL need to reallocate the increased funds they have available for next season. So, no matter what happens there will be a financial element. There is no telling how the SPFL would have allocated the Sky funds in absence of the virus epidemic. They may have had it in mind to use the money differently next season as compared to this. Sky have no say in who gets what, that's the SPFL's job.

[Greenfly]

Can’t believe all this turmoil and uncertainty in Scottish football to save 1 crap club from relegation with token gestures for the others affected.

But they're so very famous.

[Hibs4185]

Hibs should table a resolution that if temporary league reconstruction is successful then it should be 3 up from the championship and 1 relegated from the premier league.

Reward success not failure. That would shut the old bag up

[Ozyhibby]

How can that work? The increased Sky deal will mean that the SPFL need to reallocate the increased funds they have available for next season. So, no matter what happens there will be a financial element. There is no telling how the SPFL would have allocated the Sky funds in absence of the virus epidemic. They may have had it in mind to use the money differently next season as compared to this. Sky have no say in who gets what, that's the SPFL's job.

The percentages are all set. If there is no reconstruction then everyone know what is available as prize money.


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[Lago]

What an example of crass journalism this piece is from Tom English:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52338285

Rather than challenge Budge on her position, the loaded questions are cringeworthy and the entire interview comes across as a stageshow.

I used to listen to BBC Sportsound a lot but after last week's fiasco I didn't tune in today. It's like the 2014 referendum all over again with their bias - apologies for launching into politics but it still sticks in the craw:greengrin
👍👌

[FitbaFolkKen]

A 6-8 split would mean 36 games for top six. Guaranteed 18 home games. Bottom 8 would play 40 games guaranteed 20 home games. I am sure clubs would absorb one game up or down from the current potential 18-19 home games.

Would it not be 44 for top 6 and 46 for bottom 8?


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[Billy Whizz]

Would it not be 44 for top 6 and 46 for bottom 8?


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We’re going to struggle to get 38 games next season, we certainly don’t need any more games

Anyone got an idea when next season will start, looking unlikely to be 1st week in August

[Sioux]

The percentages are all set. If there is no reconstruction then everyone know what is available as prize money.


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In April 2019 the SPFL announced prize money of £25 million would be paid in specified amounts. Top club getting £3,350,000 and bottom getting £45,000. That was specific to to 2019-20 and does not form an obligation for any other year.

Had they said that the top club will get 13.4% and the bottom club 0.18% and stipulated that the same percentages would apply going forward, then its a different story. But they didn't.

The SPFL rules & Regs are silent on the matter as far as I can see.

[Paul1642]

The more I read the more I’m starting to realise they are gonna get away with this :(

[neil7908]

The more I read the more I’m starting to realise they are gonna get away with this :(

I have a nasty feeling they will as well.

[southern hibby]

As certain folk already have said The league positions have already been decided.....

So my understanding is Dundee Utd have been promoted. So genuine question, do they get a vote in the premiership and Hearts get the vote in the championship or vice versa?? Surely both teams can’t get a vote in the premiership.

The league positions have been called but if you go back a few years Hearts went into administration after Dundee had been relegated but before even a pre season friendly was played or before the fixture list for next season was brought out and took the 15 point reduction the next season so basically shafting Dundee. However now they want to turn the whole thing around to
suit their own agenda once more.

Id like to see the SPFL tell us who should be voting in what leagues.

GGTTH

[Ozyhibby]

In April 2019 the SPFL announced prize money of £25 million would be paid in specified amounts. Top club getting £3,350,000 and bottom getting £45,000. That was specific to to 2019-20 and does not form an obligation for any other year.

Had they said that the top club will get 13.4% and the bottom club 0.18% and stipulated that the same percentages would apply going forward, then its a different story. But they didn't.

The SPFL rules & Regs are silent on the matter as far as I can see.

Those percentages have been in place since 2013 though. Maybe they will change but I doubt they will change without a stooshie.


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[ekhibee]

What an example of crass journalism this piece is from Tom English:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52338285

Rather than challenge Budge on her position, the loaded questions are cringeworthy and the entire interview comes across as a stageshow.

I used to listen to BBC Sportsound a lot but after last week's fiasco I didn't tune in today. It's like the 2014 referendum all over again with their bias - apologies for launching into politics but it still sticks in the craw:greengrin

Totally agree, I mentioned this on another thread. I listened to it till that guy from Falkirk came on then switched off.

[Sioux]

Those percentages have been in place since 2013 though. Maybe they will change but I doubt they will change without a stooshie.


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Where is that documented? If the formula was based on percentages the cash paid out would not be in round figures. The prizes were awarded as a cash sum and not as a percentage of the pot.

https://spfl.co.uk/news/spfl-prize-pot-reaches-25m

[Waxy]

The more I read the more I’m starting to realise they are gonna get away with this :(

I doubt it. Can see why everyone thinks so. They always have managed to escape justice.Hibs Celtic Rangers and a few of the lower spfl teams will all vote against reconstruction.I’d be very surprised and disgusted if they got out of jail this time.

[Spike Mandela]

I honestly think we need a concerted effort to remind Leanne and Ron that by voting for temporary reconstruction (1-2years) will go down so badly with the fans that they will wipe out a lot of good work done to date.

I renewed on day one of season tickets. If Hibs were part of the vote to keep them in expanded (temporary) reconstruction then I would not renew. I have been a season ticket holder for 25 years without one season out.

Perm reconstruction that helps us all? Then maybe and if it can be justified but this fudge is pier and simply to save Hearts. Remember a temp reconstruction can be done in championship by increasing to 12 teams and saving Patrick. It doesn’t have to be the top league.

BBC radio coverage today was so biased. Only Willie Miller started to question it but got shouted down. I had to switch it off.

Might become irrelevant if Hibs vote for it or not if the other clubs follow Aberdeen's lead.

[jacomo]

Politics is involved in this now.

I think this task force will be a total **** show with that idiot leading the way and I wish Hibs had stayed well clear.

However, it’s possible Hibs will vote in favour of change, but in the certain knowledge it won’t get through. That will appease Hearts but still see them relegated.

[Real Emerald]

If they get away with their cheating and overspending again I won’t be back if we’ve had anything to do with it. They seem to get away with anything they do with no consequences. If promotion still stands so should relegation or it’s null and void. There is no repercussions for only winning 4 games from 30 and having outspent almost every other club to get there. Disgraceful.

[we are hibs]

Politics is involved in this now.

I think this task force will be a total **** show with that idiot leading the way and I wish Hibs had stayed well clear.

However, it’s possible Hibs will vote in favour of change, but in the certain knowledge it won’t get through. That will appease Hearts but still see them relegated.

I dont see why we need to appease hearts. I would rather we had absolutely nothing to do with them. On or off the park.

[jacomo]

I dont see why we need to appease hearts. I would rather we had absolutely nothing to do with them. On or off the park.


Same, but they are our city neighbours whether we like it or not.

Hold your friends close and your enemies closer, as they say. I’m pretty confident LD and Ron have got the measure of them.

[we are hibs]

I see they wont be having promotion or relegation for 5 years in Mexico. Thats absolutely mental

[Tommy75]

Politics is involved in this now.

I think this task force will be a total **** show with that idiot leading the way and I wish Hibs had stayed well clear.

However, it’s possible Hibs will vote in favour of change, but in the certain knowledge it won’t get through. That will appease Hearts but still see them relegated.

Why would Hibs ever want or need to appease Hearts?

[SiinDubai]

I only caught a bit of it where English was banging on about the timings of all the Premier clubs votes. He wouldn’t let it lie. He even claimed DCs “revelation” about the Doncaster 4:40 call would be main back page news. What a slavering erse. I used to like Tom English but I’m no fan now. Utter tube.

I didn't really understand why he was making a big deal about what time clubs voted, what difference would it make if st mirren voted at 9.30 or 12.15. He clearly had a agenda about Doncaster and kept on trying to push it despite the Aberdeen chairman several times contradicting him and telling him that he had instigated the conversation.

[Ozyhibby]

I see they wont be having promotion or relegation for 5 years in Mexico. Thats absolutely mental

I’ve seen leagues without relegation and they work well. Clubs can invest without fear of losing all their income.


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[Ozyhibby]

I didn't really understand why he was making a big deal about what time clubs voted, what difference would it make if st mirren voted at 9.30 or 12.15. He clearly had a agenda about Doncaster and kept on trying to push it despite the Aberdeen chairman several times contradicting him and telling him that he had instigated the conversation.

I’ve never heard Tom English call for an enquiry into the awarding of a UEFA license to old Rangers in 2011?


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[Spike Mandela]

Would it not be 44 for top 6 and 46 for bottom 8?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

The split would be after 2 games not 3 against the other teams.

[Jim44]

For the next five weeks, despite Budge saying this should be a speedy process, we are going to have reconstruction, reconstruction and then more reconstruction, drip fed, waved constantly in front of our eyes and rammed down our throats till we’re all brainwashed into thinking that the only outcome can be some form of reconstruction. It’s all very well for Joe Public on social media to talk it down and pooh pooh the idea but I hope that there is sufficient loud public dissent and counter arguments in the media and from clubs to prevent reconstruction being steamrollered through. If the biased nonsense of the experts and pundits on Sportsound is anything to go by, the pro reconstruction lobby is and will continue to be the most vocal and get their own way in the end.

[SiinDubai]

I’ve never heard Tom English call for an enquiry into the awarding of a UEFA license to old Rangers in 2011?


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For some reason I had it in my head that English was a decent journalist however after listening to him today he appears to be a absolute cretin !!!

[Hibs4185]

Unfortunately after reading various articles this evening, it appears there are a number of clubs supporting temporary reconstruction.

Absolute nonsense if so. Hopefully hibs are one vote against and there is one other that will see sense

[Waxy]

Wonder if uefa could still force us to play out the season.

[Lago]

For the next five weeks, despite Budge saying this should be a speedy process, we are going to have reconstruction, reconstruction and then more reconstruction, drip fed, waved constantly in front of our eyes and rammed down our throats till we’re all brainwashed into thinking that the only outcome can be some form of reconstruction. It’s all very well for Joe Public on social media to talk it down and pooh pooh the idea but I hope that there is sufficient loud public dissent and counter arguments in the media and from clubs to prevent reconstruction being steamrollered through. If the biased nonsense of the experts and pundits on Sportsound is anything to go by, the pro reconstruction lobby is and will continue to be the most vocal and get their own way in the end.
But you can see already counter arguments are few and far between.

[B.H.F.C]

Unfortunately after reading various articles this evening, it appears there are a number of clubs supporting temporary reconstruction.

Absolute nonsense if so. Hopefully hibs are one vote against and there is one other that will see sense

Who’s looking like supporting it?

[Austinho]

Any temporary increase to 14 is going to mean 3 automatic relegations the following season to get it back to 12 (with 1 automatic promotion). Surely no way are your Hamiltons, St Mirrens and Ross Countys going to be turkeys voting for Christmas. And unless we have 4 potential relegation spots, that would also mean no playoffs, so that would be half of the Championship missing out on any hope or anything to play for. All this for Hearts benefit? No chance.

Although unlikely, even we’d run the risk of letting Hearts get off scot-free and put us at more risk of the drop.

[green day]

Any temporary increase to 14 is going to mean at least 2 automatic relegations the following season. Surely no way are Hamilton, St Mirren, Ross County etc going to be turkeys voting for Christmas.

In all probability, 2 more than normal automatic relegations......imo them voting for this would be bonkers.

[greenginger]

Any temporary increase to 14 is going to mean at least 2 automatic relegations the following season. Surely no way are Hamilton, St Mirren, Ross County etc going to be turkeys voting for Christmas.

3 automatic relegations if they’re keeping the automatic promotion for the championship winner.

[Real Emerald]

Any temporary increase to 14 is going to mean at least 2 automatic relegations the following season. Surely no way are Hamilton, St Mirren, Ross County etc going to be turkeys voting for Christmas.

And Hearts will try to outspend their way out of being at the bottom. Job done again, really sick of this nonsense.

[Austinho]

3 automatic relegations if they’re keeping the automatic promotion for the championship winner.I just edited my post the same time as you all replied - it would in fact need to be 3 automatic relegation spots and 1 relegation playoff spot unless we were disbanding the playoffs too. So that would be either a quarter of the current Premiership at risk of relegation next year, or nearly a 3rd of the Championship missing out on a chance of promotion. Non starter surely.

[Spike Mandela]

I just edited my post the same time as you all replied - it would in fact need to be 3 automatic relegation spots and 1 relegation playoff spot unless we were disbanding the playoffs too. So that would be either a quarter of the current Premiership at risk of relegation next year, or nearly a 3rd of the Championship missing out on a chance of promotion. Non starter surely.

Yip, save Hearts from relegation this season so that you have a greater chance of being relegated next season.

[Brightside]

It really doesn’t matter if a few or even many clubs want reconstruction. 11 need to. It will not happen. The spfl are not run but hearts or Tom English. Chill. They are going down.

[Spike Mandela]

It really doesn’t matter if a few or even many clubs want reconstruction. 11 need to. It will not happen. The spfl are not run but hearts or Tom English. Chill. They are going down.

Some are reporting that only 9 need to.

[StevieC]

So my understanding is Dundee Utd have been promoted. So genuine question, do they get a vote in the premiership and Hearts get the vote in the championship or vice versa?? Surely both teams can’t get a vote in the premiership.

My understanding is that it is done by "vote transfer"
The vote of the relegated club is transfered to the promoted club.
Hearts have not yet been relegated (top divisions need UEFA confirmation before they can declare them) so their vote has not yet been transfered to Dundee United.

[Kato]

For some reason I had it in my head that English was a decent journalist however after listening to him today he appears to be a absolute cretin !!!Being a cretin doesn't rule out having decent journalistic capabilities.

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[StevieC]

If we went to a 14 team league, who do you think the bookies would have as the bottom 6?

At a guess .. Inverness, Hamilton, St Mirren, Livingston, Ross County and Kilmarnock?
(based on both Hearts and Dundee United having more spending power than those mentioned)

Why would any of the 5 Premiership teams mentioned above vote for something that might see them looking at a 50/50 chance of automatic relegation?

[hibeerealist]

What an example of crass journalism this piece is from Tom English:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52338285

Rather than challenge Budge on her position, the loaded questions are cringeworthy and the entire interview comes across as a stageshow.

I used to listen to BBC Sportsound a lot but after last week's fiasco I didn't tune in today. It's like the 2014 referendum all over again with their bias - apologies for launching into politics but it still sticks in the craw:greengrin

I listened to it today and I would guess she was given the questions PRIOR to them being asked on the radio, she answered them rather quickly and without being all over the place (as she usually is) so it was stage managed with English assisting.

[southern hibby]

my understanding is that it is done by "vote transfer"
the vote of the relegated club is transfered to the promoted club.
Hearts have not yet been relegated (top divisions need uefa confirmation before they can declare them) so their vote has not yet been transfered to dundee united.
👍

ggtth

[FilipinoHibs]

I listened to it today and I would guess she was given the questions PRIOR to them being asked on the radio, she answered them rather quickly and without being all over the place (as she usually is) so it was stage managed with English assisting.

Almost stopped listening to off the ball as well. We keep getting the mantra that the season should be played to the end even if it takes to 2029. At least this week Cosgrove added some common sense, saying football won't be back for a while and it won't be physically or financially possible.

[Waxy]

If we went to a 14 team league, who do you think the bookies would have as the bottom 6?

At a guess .. Inverness, Hamilton, St Mirren, Livingston, Ross County and Kilmarnock?
(based on both Hearts and Dundee United having more spending power than those mentioned)

Why would any of the 5 Premiership teams mentioned above vote for something that might see them looking at a 50/50 chance of automatic relegation?
Dundee utd wont want three relegation places a and a playoff spot next season.
They want to consolidate and its a tough league.
Utterly ridiculous we could have four relegations next season just to save hearts this season if this went through.
The clubs cant vote for that.
It has to be permanent or spfl has to remain 12.
There’s scope to increase the championship and other leagues though with them sitting at 10 clubs.

[Heisenberg]

It really doesn’t matter if a few or even many clubs want reconstruction. 11 need to. It will not happen. The spfl are not run but hearts or Tom English. Chill. They are going down.

:agree:

Points 62.5 and 62.6 in here confirm that any change to the number of member clubs or any expansion to the leagues goes down as a Qualified Resolution and requires 90% in the Premiership to vote for it.

https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/files/shares/SPFL%20Articles%20of%20Association%20of%2020-Jan-20%20(clean).pdf

I don’t see how they would get around that as they’d surely need to bring up two from the Highland/Lowland Leagues to make up the numbers.

[murray26]

Does anyone know how a 14 team league would work..?

[Waxy]

Does anyone know how a 14 team league would work..?

Probably play home and away (26 games) then split into 6 and 8 or two 7s.
They would then play home and away.
Its alot worse than what we have now.

[murray26]

Probably play home and away (26 games) then split into 6 and 8 or two 7s.
They would then play home and away.
Its alot worse than what we have now.

Well it can’t be to sevens.. must be 6-8.. with bottom 8 playing 4 extra games.. then potential playoffs.. a lot to squeeze in especially if any of the teams are still involved in the cup.

[Waxy]

Well it can’t be to sevens.. must be 6-8.. with bottom 8 playing 4 extra games.. then potential playoffs.. a lot to squeeze in especially if any of the teams are still involved in the cup.

Then theres the good chance we could be starting late next season.
Be a struggle to get it finished by June.
Throw in a bad winter and we’re goosed.

[Joe6-2]

Unfortunately after reading various articles this evening, it appears there are a number of clubs supporting temporary reconstruction.

Absolute nonsense if so. Hopefully hibs are one vote against and there is one other that will see sense

I’m gobsmacked if this is the case!
I know some clubs would like reconstruction, but surely not falling for this self serving crap?!!
And why temporary???

[Dr Jimmy]

:agree:

Points 62.5 and 62.6 in here confirm that any change to the number of member clubs or any expansion to the leagues goes down as a Qualified Resolution and requires 90% in the Premiership to vote for it.

https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/files/shares/SPFL%20Articles%20of%20Association%20of%2020-Jan-20%20(clean).pdf

I don’t see how they would get around that as they’d surely need to bring up two from the Highland/Lowland Leagues to make up the numbers.

Where does it state 11-1 on this document?
Apologies if I’m being thick, but I can’t find it.

[Heisenberg]

Where does it state 11-1 on this document?
Apologies if I’m being thick, but I can’t find it.

Its not easy to find or decipher. There's an explanation of what a qualified resolution means and what votes are required (copied below).

"Qualified Resolution means, in relation to those Reserved Matters referred to in Article 62, a resolution of the Company at a General Meeting, of which notice has been duly given in accordance with these Articles, and which requires the support of not less than 90% of the Members owning and operating Clubs entitled for the time being to participate in the Premiership; 75% of the Members owning and operating Clubs entitled for the time being to participate inthe Premiership and the Championship; and 75% of the Members owning and operating Clubs entitled for the time being to participate inthe Premiership, the Championship, League One and League Two, whether all the Members of the Company actually attend and vote or not, to be passed;"

So 90% required in the Premiership for any qualified resolution to pass. Now unless they are planning on not bringing new teams into the leagues from EOS/Highland League i dont see how this wont be a qualified resolution. Brian McLauchlin was saying it'll be an ordinary resolution (only 75% required for this) if the financials in the league dont change (i dont even know if thats correct), but failed to mention what happens if the number of teams in the league change. Now there could be ways around this but to me on the face of it this seems pretty straightforward. Down to Budgie to sort out how she's going to weasel her way out of it.

Yes, i've been bored during the lockdown :greengrin

[GonzoReturns]

Until there is a global vaccination the next 12/18 months could be very restrictive as to how many actual games are able to take place. To try and reconstruct now and increase league size is ridiculous. Wish someone would just tell the Queen of Trouts to shut the f*** up and accept the fact they have been the worse team for months!!!! She is doing my head in!!!

[ScottB]

Until there is a global vaccination the next 12/18 months could be very restrictive as to how many actual games are able to take place. To try and reconstruct now and increase league size is ridiculous. Wish someone would just tell the Queen of Trouts to shut the f*** up and accept the fact they have been the worse team for months!!!! She is doing my head in!!!

Indeed! The chances of further lockdowns during next season must be very high, so now doesn’t seem the time to meddle with the structure. If anything, now is the time to plan and make official what would happen if more lockdowns occurred, and avoid all this voting mess we’ve been through.

Otherwise, let’s say we create a one off 14 team league to save Hearts, but by the end of next May we’ve not managed to fit all the games in, the 4 clubs threatened with relegation site precedent that Hearts weren’t relegated, then what? We just keep making the league bigger?

This isn’t one and done, setting a precedent that can’t be repeated would be the daftest move yet.

[GonzoReturns]

Indeed! The chances of further lockdowns during next season must be very high, so now doesn’t seem the time to meddle with the structure. If anything, now is the time to plan and make official what would happen if more lockdowns occurred, and avoid all this voting mess we’ve been through.

Otherwise, let’s say we create a one off 14 team league to save Hearts, but by the end of next May we’ve not managed to fit all the games in, the 4 clubs threatened with relegation site precedent that Hearts weren’t relegated, then what? We just keep making the league bigger?

This isn’t one and done, setting a precedent that can’t be repeated would be the daftest move yet.


Great point.

[JimBHibees]

:agree:

Points 62.5 and 62.6 in here confirm that any change to the number of member clubs or any expansion to the leagues goes down as a Qualified Resolution and requires 90% in the Premiership to vote for it.

https://spfl.co.uk/admin/filemanager/files/shares/SPFL%20Articles%20of%20Association%20of%2020-Jan-20%20(clean).pdf

I don’t see how they would get around that as they’d surely need to bring up two from the Highland/Lowland Leagues to make up the numbers.

Does expansion to the leagues include top league going to 14 but same number of spfl teams as before?

[CorrieHibs]

Unfortunately after reading various articles this evening, it appears there are a number of clubs supporting temporary reconstruction.

Absolute nonsense if so. Hopefully hibs are one vote against and there is one other that will see sense

I did say last week, I thought they would get it passed. I didn’t know how, just that they’re jammy b******s and would survive this.

They’ll be seen as some sort of saviours of the Scottish game by the media. But, in truth, boards feel sorry for teams being relegated under these circumstances.

No doubt they’ll spend a whack on players (money they don’t have) next season and will be challenging for 3rd/4th.

[Heisenberg]

Does expansion to the leagues include top league going to 14 but same number of spfl teams as before?

I’d guess so? Because it’s a change to the number of teams in the league which is outside the normal promotion/relegation. These are the points of contention though and Budgie may find a way around it to give her the best possible chance. I don’t know enough about it all.

[lucky]

I’ve been in favour of league restructuring for a while but what’s being discussed is not league restructuring it’s about saving Hearts. It’s bonkers even by Scottish football standards to change the leagues for one season with so much uncertainty. If clubs want restructuring then it’s got to be a permanent move. But any restructuring at this time is a big ask. All clubs are facing big financial issues and diluted the TV money and prize money next season will not look attractive to most clubs.

I do think relegation is hard on teams at the bottom of the leagues but the reality is a democratic decision has been taken by SPFL members 81% in favour. There were only two choices, null and void the season or call it as it is. The SPLF members went with a slight variation on option 2. Its time to move on. Ann Budge is just making a fool out of herself and seems to think other clubs want to save them. At a time of national unity she is only looking inwards.

[where'stheslope]

Has anyone said anything about when Hearts are relegated, what happens to the play offs?
It would only seem fair if you relegate the bottom team, there is also a chance for promotion for 4 teams below Dundee United!
Is this the reason for all the bother, how can you play these games when their season is already over?
This just means Championship's also rans, lose out on a chance of what could be £1,000's of extra money playing in the top league???

[PH91]

I did say last week, I thought they would get it passed. I didn’t know how, just that they’re jammy b******s and would survive this.

They’ll be seen as some sort of saviours of the Scottish game by the media. But, in truth, boards feel sorry for teams being relegated under these circumstances.

No doubt they’ll spend a whack on players (money they don’t have) next season and will be challenging for 3rd/4th.

Partick are the real sticking point, teams could well vote for a reconstruction that saves them and budge will guarantee any proposal put forward which saves them will also save Hearts. If Partick were more than 3 points behind like the others i would be less concerned.

A scenario where they get spared from relegation, spend in the summer then go on to win the cup at the start of next season (i think the cup being played at the start of next season with next seasons squads is the right thing to do btw) would be very hard to take.

[Billy Whizz]

Partick are the real sticking point, teams could well vote for a reconstruction that saves them and budge will guarantee any proposal put forward which saves them will also save Hearts. If Partick were more than 3 points behind like the others i would be less concerned.

A scenario where they get spared from relegation, spend in the summer then go on to win the cup at the start of next season (i think the cup being played at the start of next season with next seasons squads is the right thing to do btw) would be very hard to take.

If they go down, will have to cut their player budget, suits Hibs to do so
Would be the biggest pisser of all, if they stayed up, and beat us in the semi

[Brunswickbill]

Surprise surprise, football clubs are acting out of self-interest. Those hogging the limelight are, not surprisingly, those who stand to suffer, being led by the insufferable Mrs Budge. She has always unfathomably been given an easy time by the media as the saviour of Hertz and a source of wisdom of Scottish football. The media are happy to run with her opinions because it fits with the SPFL/SFA incompetent or corrupt story, supporting the afflicted whilst not upsetting the Old Firm. It was clear that Mrs Budge was only doing what she was doing out of self-interest but she was never pressed on this by Tom English. I reckon that the majority of clubs see Mrs Budge’s efforts for what they are, purely aimed at saving Hertz from relegation and not for the good of Scottish football. The clubs who may be adversely affected aren’t going to speak out and appear to be the bad guys and be slagged by Stewart, English, Dodds etc. They are giving her space to sound off but when push comes to shove, they’ll continue to do what’s in their own interest. The discussion on yesterday’s Sportsound was all about the injustice of what’s been proposed, and there are clubs that stand to suffer unfortunate outcomes, for example Partick whose situation is worse that Hertz. I’m opposed to reorganisation but yesterday’s Sportsound did show that there is a case to be made. But no-one was present to give the opposing case and point out the pit falls that a temporary reorganisation of the SPFL will bring about. My guess is that self-interest will continue to prevail and that while they may come up with a solution for the lower leagues reorganisation of the Premier league will be rejected.

[Tug Wilson]

Its not easy to find or decipher. There's an explanation of what a qualified resolution means and what votes are required (copied below).

"Qualified Resolution means, in relation to those Reserved Matters referred to in Article 62, a resolution of the Company at a General Meeting, of which notice has been duly given in accordance with these Articles, and which requires the support of not less than 90% of the Members owning and operating Clubs entitled for the time being to participate in the Premiership; 75% of the Members owning and operating Clubs entitled for the time being to participate inthe Premiership and the Championship; and 75% of the Members owning and operating Clubs entitled for the time being to participate inthe Premiership, the Championship, League One and League Two, whether all the Members of the Company actually attend and vote or not, to be passed;"

So 90% required in the Premiership for any qualified resolution to pass. Now unless they are planning on not bringing new teams into the leagues from EOS/Highland League i dont see how this wont be a qualified resolution. Brian McLauchlin was saying it'll be an ordinary resolution (only 75% required for this) if the financials in the league dont change (i dont even know if thats correct), but failed to mention what happens if the number of teams in the league change. Now there could be ways around this but to me on the face of it this seems pretty straightforward. Down to Budgie to sort out how she's going to weasel her way out of it.

Yes, i've been bored during the lockdown :greengrin

Thanks. Interestingly currently 90% of 12 is 10.8 jence the 11/1 split, but 90% of 14 is 12.6 so expansion of the Premiership without amending the Articles would mean that it would become a 12/2 split and the OF would lose their combined veto.

[McD]

Thanks. Interestingly currently 90% of 12 is 10.8 jence the 11/1 split, but 90% of 14 is 12.6 so expansion of the Premiership without amending the Articles would mean that it would become a 12/2 split and the OF would lose their combined veto.


given they round up from 10.8 to 11, it think it’s most likely that they’d do the same and round up 12.6 to 13

[Peevemor]

Partick are the real sticking point, teams could well vote for a reconstruction that saves them and budge will guarantee any proposal put forward which saves them will also save Hearts. If Partick were more than 3 points behind like the others i would be less concerned.

A scenario where they get spared from relegation, spend in the summer then go on to win the cup at the start of next season (i think the cup being played at the start of next season with next seasons squads is the right thing to do btw) would be very hard to take.Budge alone can't guarantee anything. It's not her that decides.

[green day]

Les Grey on Sportsound today - sounds like a good guy, very reasoned..............but he wants reconstruction and for Hearts and Partick to be saved (he is a Partick fan by the way !!).

[green day]

Amusingly, he just said that Hamilton board view is for permanent, whereas Budge wants temporary.

It sounds like its basically not going to happen due to self interest :aok:

[B.H.F.C]

Les Grey on Sportsound today - sounds like a good guy, very reasoned..............but he wants reconstruction and for Hearts and Partick to be saved (he is a Partick fan by the way !!).

Guess the big question is whether he wants temporary or permanent?

[Billy Whizz]

Les Grey on Sportsound today - sounds like a good guy, very reasoned..............but he wants reconstruction and for Hearts and Partick to be saved (he is a Partick fan by the way !!).

This is far better listening than yesterday
He’s already had a go at Budge, saying things could be fixed in 2 weeks
Interesting his board want a permanent fix, where as he at the moment thinks a permanent fix is better
Said he any have to resign from the task force co chair, if his club want a permanent fix
Going to be an interesting 1st meeting tomorrow

[Billy Whizz]

Guess the big question is whether he wants temporary or permanent?

If the task force want temporary, and the Hamilton Board want permanent, which they do, he’ll have to leave the reconstruction group

[ElginHibbie]

“If we have to change an article of association (for reconstruction), the Prem vote threshold would be 11-1” says @spfl board member Les Gray

Puts an end to that 9-3 chat then?

[Tug Wilson]

given they round up from 10.8 to 11, it think it’s most likely that they’d do the same and round up 12.6 to 13

Good point. I blame the lockdown for my poor maths

[hibbyfraelibby]

Does anyone know how a 14 team league would work..?

Yup...badly

[we are hibs]

“If we have to change an article of association (for reconstruction), the Prem vote threshold would be 11-1” says @spfl board member Les Gray

Puts an end to that 9-3 chat then?



Is reconstruction "changing an article of assocation"? What does that mean?

[CropleyWasGod]

“If we have to change an article of association (for reconstruction), the Prem vote threshold would be 11-1” says @spfl board member Les Gray

Puts an end to that 9-3 chat then?

Not really.

They can change it to 9-3, but they would need an 11-1 vote to do so.

😁

[Tug Wilson]

Was thinking about this whole Cormack/Doncaster phone call situation last night.

A different spin on it from the nonsense Tom English was spouting would be that Dave Cormack contacted the SPFL looking to "sell" Aberdeen's vote for certain assurances and concessions (in writing).

Doncaster confirmed verbally that these would be put to the Board but politely pointed out that Aberdeen's vote was not worth buying as they already had the 9 Premiership votes required.

Cormack confirmed that he was happy with the verbal assurances given. I presume that was because he knew that he had lost his bargaining chip.

So not to be seen as out of step with the majority, Aberdeen voted Yes.

As pointed out by one of the other presenters yesterday, why would Doncaster feel the need to pressurise Aberdeen to vote Yes as their vote was not going to effect the result.

Tom English's explanation that it was to get the %age vote up was just ridiculous.

[ElginHibbie]

Not really.

They can change it to 9-3, but they would need an 11-1 vote to do so.

😁

Well Celtic and Rangers would never allow that to happen!

[Brunswickbill]

If the task force want temporary, and the Hamilton Board want permanent, which they do, he’ll have to leave the reconstruction group

The idea that they should expand the Premier league to 14 to save Hearts meaning that 3 teams out of 8 would be relegated one or two years later is simply nuts. I can’t see that being approved.

[Lee Marvin]

Les Gray (chair of taskforce) says that they wanted people on the taskforce who were open to reconstruction..this is the most credible source for gauging why LD is on there.

[Waxy]

Relegation isnt going to cost hearts that much anyway. They have relegation clauses plus they just cut their cloth for a bit.
Still have the biggest budget in the championship by alot.
Its just the embarrassment of going down thats upsetting them.

[CropleyWasGod]

Les Gray (chair of taskforce) says that they wanted people on the taskforce who were open to reconstruction..this is the most credible source for gauging why LD is on there.

Did he say how successful he had been in that?

Tbf, LD has talked about reconstruction in the past. It's one thing being open to the notion, another being convinced by the proposed practicalities.

[Waxy]

Wheres the email Budge sent out to agents telling them they had cash to spend? They have access to a fair amount of cash it seems whenever they need it.

[Lee Marvin]

Did he say how successful he had been in that?

Tbf, LD has talked about reconstruction in the past. It's one thing being open to the notion, another being convinced by the proposed practicalities.

He said he has more people.on there than he would like.

Didnt seem confident that they could come to an agreement to pass reconstruction. Also confirmed that he is sure it is 11-1 to pass in premiership. Not 9-3.

[Ozyhibby]

Relegation isnt going to cost hearts that much anyway. They have relegation clauses plus they just cut their cloth for a bit.
Still have the biggest budget in the championship by alot.
Its just the embarrassment of going down thats upsetting them.

I think it will cost them an awful lot of money. They have a lot of players on contract for next season that they don’t want but will struggle to move on because they won’t get the same amount of money anywhere else as clubs worldwide slash budgets. And they are looking at a £3m hit from relegation on top of the hit Covid inflicts on them.
I can understand why she is fighting so hard because it’s possible that she will be faced with a choice of putting in her own money or admin.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Onion]

If the task force want temporary, and the Hamilton Board want permanent, which they do, he’ll have to leave the reconstruction group

Don't follow that. If all views of those on the taskforce have to be aligned, then Hibs (Leanne) must also be in favour of reconstruction, and temporary at that. Quite possible for the TF to have a whole range of views. Ultimately, they'll all have a chance to vote of the final proposal (or maybe a few proposals).

[Tug Wilson]

Don't follow that. If all views of those on the taskforce have to be aligned, then Hibs (Leanne) must also be in favour of reconstruction, and temporary at that. Quite possible for the TF to have a whole range of views. Ultimately, they'll all have a chance to vote of the final proposal (or maybe a few proposals).

Absolutely. This has to be a cross party committee with deferring views on the merits of reconstruction. No point if not.

It is up to the members wanting reconstruction to set out their ideas of how it will work. The other members then have to raise any issues arising and ask how they are resolved.

[Joe6-2]

I’ve been in favour of league restructuring for a while but what’s being discussed is not league restructuring it’s about saving Hearts. It’s bonkers even by Scottish football standards to change the leagues for one season with so much uncertainty. If clubs want restructuring then it’s got to be a permanent move. But any restructuring at this time is a big ask. All clubs are facing big financial issues and diluted the TV money and prize money next season will not look attractive to most clubs.

I do think relegation is hard on teams at the bottom of the leagues but the reality is a democratic decision has been taken by SPFL members 81% in favour. There were only two choices, null and void the season or call it as it is. The SPLF members went with a slight variation on option 2. Its time to move on. Ann Budge is just making a fool out of herself and seems to think other clubs want to save them. At a time of national unity she is only looking inwards.

Totally agree, self serving at its best! Just don’t get why others don’t see right through this!!

[Waxy]

Totally agree, self serving at its best! Just don’t get why others don’t see right through this!!

They probably do.

[Joe6-2]

They probably do.

I hope so!

[haagsehibby]

Don't follow that. If all views of those on the taskforce have to be aligned, then Hibs (Leanne) must also be in favour of reconstruction, and temporary at that. Quite possible for the TF to have a whole range of views. Ultimately, they'll all have a chance to vote of the final proposal (or maybe a few proposals).

From an interview in The Times given by LD on 6th April.

If the season cannot be completed, one scenario being mooted is for the top tier to be expanded to either 14 or 16 teams. It is a solution Dempster says she is against. “I’m open-minded to most things, but I am less open-minded to league reconstruction, and it is nothing to do with the Hibs/Hearts rivalry,” she said. “It is just that we have been talking about reconstruction for ten years and we’ve reached no agreement. So I think really quick decisions tend to be really bad decisions.

Things may have changed since then I suppose.

[Bostonhibby]

Relegation isnt going to cost hearts that much anyway. They have relegation clauses plus they just cut their cloth for a bit.
Still have the biggest budget in the championship by alot.
Its just the embarrassment of going down thats upsetting them.Budge's legacy is what she's worried about and it's already a dog's breakfast.

Can you put icing on the top of a dog's breakfast?

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[StevieC]

I can’t see a temporary 14 team league, with at least 3 relegated next season, getting voted in. Too many teams creating too much risk.

What is a worry (and might get over the line), is a PERMANENT 14 team league, with the one up, one down, one play-off set up currently in place.

I get the feeling that this is where Hamilton are coming from. They are happy for reconstruction, but have no intention of risking 3 down at the end of next season.

[mjhibby]

Was thinking about this whole Cormack/Doncaster phone call situation last night.

A different spin on it from the nonsense Tom English was spouting would be that Dave Cormack contacted the SPFL looking to "sell" Aberdeen's vote for certain assurances and concessions (in writing).

Doncaster confirmed verbally that these would be put to the Board but politely pointed out that Aberdeen's vote was not worth buying as they already had the 9 Premiership votes required.

Cormack confirmed that he was happy with the verbal assurances given. I presume that was because he knew that he had lost his bargaining chip.

So not to be seen as out of step with the majority, Aberdeen voted Yes.

As pointed out by one of the other presenters yesterday, why would Doncaster feel the need to pressurise Aberdeen to vote Yes as their vote was not going to effect the result.

Tom English's explanation that it was to get the %age vote up was just ridiculous.

English was just embarrassing yesterday. Labouring the point where even Richard Gordon was getting peeved at him. Interestingly , not once did anybody propose an actual solution but just spouted their clearly well rehearsed bias views and not once was it mentioned that it needs an 11-1 majority or why the bigot bros would possibly vote for reconstruction. They have no interest in change and there will be loads of talking done but it will get nowhere. Also how can we change our league when we’ve no idea when we will be playing. A car crash of a programme. Patrick’s magnificent statement showed just how bitter budge and cohorts are. I really hope we somehow finish the season and they go down.

[mjhibby]

Btw les gray wanting permanent change and very strong opposition from the likes of Morton and Ayr shows the clear opposition to temporary change.

[danhibees1875]

I can’t see a temporary 14 team league, with at least 3 relegated next season, getting voted in. Too many teams creating too much risk.

What is a worry (and might get over the line), is a PERMANENT 14 team league, with the one up, one down, one play-off set up currently in place.

I get the feeling that this is where Hamilton are coming from. They are happy for reconstruction, but have no intention of risking 3 down at the end of next season.

:agree:

Permanent seems like the only thing that could get voted through. A temporary reconstruction would be an absolute farce.

Even then I don't see the point really. Presumably the only way to do it is the 2 rounds of games then split before a further 2 rounds?

A lot of bottom 7 teams throwing away some lucrative games against OF by doing so.

[Moulin Yarns]

I've not been following all of this. Too nice weather to be looking at forums. But. Why is the 15 strong task force looking at temporary restructuring? The only reason I see for it is self interest of the clubs that miss out on play off places and are relegated.

If the task force are to be effective restructuring should be permanent or not at all.

[Rumble de Thump]

Was thinking about this whole Cormack/Doncaster phone call situation last night.

A different spin on it from the nonsense Tom English was spouting would be that Dave Cormack contacted the SPFL looking to "sell" Aberdeen's vote for certain assurances and concessions (in writing).

Doncaster confirmed verbally that these would be put to the Board but politely pointed out that Aberdeen's vote was not worth buying as they already had the 9 Premiership votes required.

Cormack confirmed that he was happy with the verbal assurances given. I presume that was because he knew that he had lost his bargaining chip.

So not to be seen as out of step with the majority, Aberdeen voted Yes.

As pointed out by one of the other presenters yesterday, why would Doncaster feel the need to pressurise Aberdeen to vote Yes as their vote was not going to effect the result.

Tom English's explanation that it was to get the %age vote up was just ridiculous.

Les Gray said Cormack had wanted reassurances from the SPFL regarding reconsruction. Doncaster had then called Cormack to explain that no assurances could be given.

[hibee-boys]

Were there any league reconstruction talks prior to Coronavirus.....NO! It's not a perfect set up, but what would be, dish out prize money based on points per game and move on, this uncertainty is just adding to the financial worries. A vast majority of supporters will not be signing up for a season until this is resolved. Oh......and play the Scottish Cup to a finale!

[660]

What’s the deadline for this reconstruction drivel?

[B.H.F.C]

I can’t see a temporary 14 team league, with at least 3 relegated next season, getting voted in. Too many teams creating too much risk.

What is a worry (and might get over the line), is a PERMANENT 14 team league, with the one up, one down, one play-off set up currently in place.

I get the feeling that this is where Hamilton are coming from. They are happy for reconstruction, but have no intention of risking 3 down at the end of next season.

If it goes to 14 (permanently) they can’t just keep it as one automatic relegation and one play off IMO. Think that would just lead to more teams not having much to play for.

Agree with you on Hamilton.

[Irish_Steve]

I think the most telling comment from Les Gray`s article on the BBC is this one - "It's the clubs that voted 'no' that are the noisiest. And I'm looking at what their motives might be.

Whatever could he be hinting at!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52344236

[StevieC]

Were there any league reconstruction talks prior to Coronavirus.....NO!!

Yes .. but it was back in 2013 and got voted down by St Mirren and Ross County (May have been others, but those two were vocal and killed it dead).
Back then it was for 3 leagues of 12-12-18

[Billy Whizz]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/scottish-football/id129625085#episodeGuid=urn%3Abbc%3Apodcast%3Ap089 y8pg

On here if anyone wants to listen, I think it would help understand some of the stuff going on😎

[jacomo]

I think the most telling comment from Les Gray`s article on the BBC is this one - "It's the clubs that voted 'no' that are the noisiest. And I'm looking at what their motives might be.

Whatever could he be hinting at!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52344236


He’s definitely going to need to mute Budge on that zoom meeting.

[Michael]

Reconstruction with a playoff to be League champion from next season. Gives Rangers a better chance of stopping Celtic and the other clubs a chance of a league win.

Belgium have a system where you start the playoff with half the points earned during regular season and play each team twice.

Combine that with 14 teams and this might be the kind of thing Budge could offer to get the vote count required.

[Jim44]

What’s the deadline for this reconstruction drivel?

I’m sure I read 5 or six weeks. :rolleyes: It’ll be at least the time needed for Budge to canvas, coerce, bully and bore clubs into saving Hearts.

[Ozyhibby]

I can’t see a temporary 14 team league, with at least 3 relegated next season, getting voted in. Too many teams creating too much risk.

What is a worry (and might get over the line), is a PERMANENT 14 team league, with the one up, one down, one play-off set up currently in place.

I get the feeling that this is where Hamilton are coming from. They are happy for reconstruction, but have no intention of risking 3 down at the end of next season.

Especially if next season is cut short again and everyone is crying that we can’t relegate those three teams. What happens then? 16 team league?


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[Billy Whizz]

Especially if next season is cut short again and everyone is crying that we can’t relegate those three teams. What happens then? 16 team league?


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Gary Holt the Livvi Manager, is calling for an 18 team league

[147lothian]

I think the most telling comment from Les Gray`s article on the BBC is this one - "It's the clubs that voted 'no' that are the noisiest. And I'm looking at what their motives might be.

Whatever could he be hinting at!!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52344236


Les Gray, seems to be stating the obvious and talking sense for me, I just hope someone captures a picture of Budge going into the zoom meeting on Monday with her bag of buns.

[Ozyhibby]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/scottish-football/id129625085#episodeGuid=urn%3Abbc%3Apodcast%3Ap089 y8pg

On here if anyone wants to listen, I think it would help understand some of the stuff going on[emoji41]

A good listen and Les Gray was impressive given that he had to put up with the likes of Chick Young.


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[danhibees1875]

Gary Holt the Livvi Manager, is calling for an 18 team league

I'm amazed that a team that gives the OF 75% of their stadium would want that!

Even the reduced games against Hibs would hurt them financially.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm amazed that a team that gives the OF 75% of their stadium would want that!

Even the reduced games against Hibs would hurt them financially.

I can understand why a coach would be in favour of a larger league. I'm not so sure whether his boss would agree, though.

[GreenCastle]

I’ve really lost interest in some of the nonsense in the media last few days about reconstruction.

It’s absolutely ridiculous that clubs are being asked to try look at this.

I’ve written on here before that I would want change but not in these circumstances. It would look ridiculous and make the league and Scottish set up lose any credibility it has left.

There should be an independent group of people with a wide range of expertise doing an analysis of where we are as a country with football.

All the way through from grassroots to national level.

A short term or even permanent change at this moment in time won’t be the solution whatever they come up with.

Do some market research - ask fans - speak to sponsors - speak to coaches and see what is best for the future of Scottish Football linked to everyone and everything improving.

One of the biggest we have is the Old Firm monopoly and how do you make the game more attractive to youngsters and lost fans.

If Scottish football attempts reconstruction in this short space of time I honestly seriously consider stop attending games. I don’t attend Scotland games as the National team and structure is a joke but if they mess with the club system with a knee jerk set up I’m sure I won’t be the only fan who may be lose faith in those running the game when it’s already at an all time low already.

[Power]

I’ve really lost interest in some of the nonsense in the media last few days about reconstruction.

It’s absolutely ridiculous that clubs are being asked to try look at this.

I’ve written on here before that I would want change but not in these circumstances. It would look ridiculous and make the league and Scottish set up lose any credibility it has left.

There should be an independent group of people with a wide range of expertise doing an analysis of where we are as a country with football.

All the way through from grassroots to national level.

A short term or even permanent change at this moment in time won’t be the solution whatever they come up with.

Do some market research - ask fans - speak to sponsors - speak to coaches and see what is best for the future of Scottish Football linked to everyone and everything improving.

If Scottish football attempts reconstruction in this short space of time I honestly seriously consider stop attending games. I don’t attend Scotland games as the National team and structure is a joke but if they mess with the club system with a knee jerk set up I’m sure I won’t be the only fan who may be lose faith in those running the game when it’s already at an all time low already.

You’re similar in your views with Henry McLeish here ✅ https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/henry-mcleish-sheer-folly-let-ann-budge-and-co-map-out-future-2542773

[Sammy7nil]

Nothing wrong with the current system and all 12 teams will claim they have something to play for this season. This in unlikely to be the case with 14 teams in the league.

Hearts and Partick get relegated boo hoo :boo hoo::boo hoo: all very sad I am sure in a year or two it will all be forgotten.

Reconstruction at this time is not in the best interests of Scottish football it is in the best interests of 6 or 7 teams.

[007 Mickey Weir]

This podcast is good balanced point of view from SFSA’s Andy Smith.

http://podcast.sfm.scot/e/twm-episode-27/

Then their survey below to get your point of view over.


https://t.co/BG2A33W6TS?amp=1

[Waxy]

I’ve really lost interest in some of the nonsense in the media last few days about reconstruction.

It’s absolutely ridiculous that clubs are being asked to try look at this.

I’ve written on here before that I would want change but not in these circumstances. It would look ridiculous and make the league and Scottish set up lose any credibility it has left.

There should be an independent group of people with a wide range of expertise doing an analysis of where we are as a country with football.

All the way through from grassroots to national level.

A short term or even permanent change at this moment in time won’t be the solution whatever they come up with.

Do some market research - ask fans - speak to sponsors - speak to coaches and see what is best for the future of Scottish Football linked to everyone and everything improving.

One of the biggest we have is the Old Firm monopoly and how do you make the game more attractive to youngsters and lost fans.

If Scottish football attempts reconstruction in this short space of time I honestly seriously consider stop attending games. I don’t attend Scotland games as the National team and structure is a joke but if they mess with the club system with a knee jerk set up I’m sure I won’t be the only fan who may be lose faith in those running the game when it’s already at an all time low already.
Think you speak for a big percentage of Scottish football fans.
This is being done by the wrong people.

[Billy Whizz]

Nothing wrong with the current system and all 12 teams will claim they have something to play for this season. This in unlikely to be the case with 14 teams in the league.

Hearts and Partick get relegated boo hoo :boo hoo::boo hoo: all very sad I am sure in a year or two it will all be forgotten.

Reconstruction at this time is not in the best interests of Scottish football it is in the best interests of 6 or 7 teams.

Partick can be saved with a 12 team Championship, and Falkirk will go up too
Edinburgh City go up, and lowland and Highland league winners get into the league
Everyone’s a winner... except Hearts🤣
Dead easy

[berwickhibee]

You’re similar in your views with Henry McLeish here ✅ https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/henry-mcleish-sheer-folly-let-ann-budge-and-co-map-out-future-2542773

Excellent interview.

This should be shared everywhere.

Not his biggest fan but here he is spot on in my opinion.

[Radium]

Partick can be saved with a 12 team Championship, and Falkirk will go up too
Edinburgh City go up, and lowland and Highland league winners get into the league
Everyone’s a winner... except Hearts[emoji1787]
Dead easy

... Stranraer aren’t relegated ... and it doesn’t need ripped up in 1-2 seasons time


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[Billy Whizz]

... Stranraer aren’t relegated ... and it doesn’t need ripped up in 1-2 seasons time


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So how do you solve a problem like the Jambos

[Ozyhibby]

Partick can be saved with a 12 team Championship, and Falkirk will go up too
Edinburgh City go up, and lowland and Highland league winners get into the league
Everyone’s a winner... except Hearts[emoji1787]
Dead easy

League 2 has two extra mouths to feed on less money and the lowland league is down a team. Not everyone is a winner.


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[Ozyhibby]

Still can’t see a way for any type of reconstruction that doesn’t involve lots of clubs losing money. No way does this get the votes it needs.


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[Billy Whizz]

League 2 has two extra mouths to feed on less money and the lowland league is down a team. Not everyone is a winner.


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That’s me sacked then😄

[Stanton Spence]

That’s me sacked then[emoji1]And I was just about to say that was the best proposal I've heard tae Billy [emoji23]

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[Billy Whizz]

And I was just about to say that was the best proposal I've heard tae Billy [emoji23]

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Bottom 2 in League 2 get £90k between, you and I can have a whip round

[Stanton Spence]

Bottom 2 in League 2 get £90k between, you and I can have a whip roundI'm sure that go fund me or whatever it is they do nowadays would find enough fans to get 90k [emoji848]

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[Ozyhibby]

I'm sure that go fund me or whatever it is they do nowadays would find enough fans to get 90k [emoji848]

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League 1 would be short of funds as well so you would need to raise their cash as well. [emoji6][emoji23]


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[Stanton Spence]

League 1 would be short of funds as well so you would need to raise their cash as well. [emoji6][emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkOch I'm beginning to think it's a no go [emoji53]

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[Joe6-2]

Excellent interview.

This should be shared everywhere.

Not his biggest fan but here he is spot on in my opinion.

Exactly!!!

[Sioux]

League 1 would be short of funds as well so you would need to raise their cash as well. [emoji6][emoji23]


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Sky have already done that.

[Ozyhibby]

Sky have already done that.

Yes and the clubs expect to get the full benefit of that. They don’t want to have to give up any of the new money.


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[The Harp Awakes]

You’re similar in your views with Henry McLeish here ✅ https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/henry-mcleish-sheer-folly-let-ann-budge-and-co-map-out-future-2542773

Sometimes it takes someone to state what may seem blindingly obvious but overlooked. Nail on the head and all that.

[Billy Whizz]

Sometimes it takes someone to state what may seem blindingly obvious but overlooked. Nail on the head and all that.

You mean someone impartial

[Onion]

Hearts and Anne Budge are up against the clock. As soon as UEFA give the go ahead this week, the "taskforce" are on the clock, depriving clubs of much needed finance. The longer they take to come up with a coherent plan, the less chance they have of persuading anyone. Forget 5 or 6 weeks, they're dreaming. If they don't produce a miracle formula in 2 or 3 weeks, they're dead in the water.

If Budge thinks she can draw this out, she'd deluded. The SPFL and other clubs will end up disbanding the task force and calling the league, to stay alive.

[Peevemor]

Hearts and Anne Budge are up against the clock. As soon as UEFA give the go ahead this week, the "taskforce" are on the clock, depriving clubs of much needed finance. The longer they take to come up with a coherent plan, the less chance they have of persuading anyone. Forget 5 or 6 weeks, they're dreaming. If they don't produce a miracle formula in 2 or 3 weeks, they're dead in the water.

If Budge thinks she can draw this out, she'd deluded. The SPFL and other clubs will end up disbanding the task force and calling the league, to stay alive.

Confirmation of league placings and distribution of money can take place independently of any decision on restructuring the leagues.

Hearts could be relegated then promoted in time for the start of next season.

[Radium]

So how do you solve a problem like the Jambos

Least bad option. 30 clubs below the premiership share £3.45M, it would cost the 30 about £9K each to absorb the 2 extra clubs (or about 6% of the current prize totals). That is without any increase in money from Premiership. Don’t know what next season’s figures are.


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[Waxy]

As much as i feel sorry for Partick also, getting to stay up would be unfair for them too.We still shouldnt be bending over backwards to reconstruct the lower leagues.
This needs done properly.
Reckon they should get an extra monetery compensation but have to stay down. Sorry Partick. If Hibs were bottom i’d accept we had to go down too.

[GreenCastle]

You’re similar in your views with Henry McLeish here ✅ https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/henry-mcleish-sheer-folly-let-ann-budge-and-co-map-out-future-2542773

Yup - good read and for me it’s common sense.

I don’t have much faith with folk at the top in the men’s game trying to sort a structure otherwise I would be curious to know their views. For example Steve Clarke - what’s his views?

I know with the women’s game the national coach has input as it affects the way the game moves forward and what she has to select. Even though I know they don’t have a perfect structure and it’s a different set up to men (plus lots of women’s players play outside domestic league).

[chippy]

Least bad option. 30 clubs below the premiership share £3.45M, it would cost the 30 about £9K each to absorb the 2 extra clubs (or about 6% of the current prize totals). That is without any increase in money from Premiership. Don’t know what next season’s figures are.


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So if we assume the new sky deal might be double the current one then that would be 30 clubs giving up £540 between them. If the 12 premier clubs weighed in with say £30k each that would leave the lower league clubs £6k each worse off. Would all of that be such a deal breaker.?As a bonus there might only be 3 divisions so lots of promotions

[007]

I don't think the prize money would be a stumbling block. If I was Budge and the only thing stopping reconstruction going through was the money for the bottom 2 teams of league 2 I'd just say Hearts will forfeit that amount of their prize money to cover it. Or I'd even just say I'll pay it myself.

For me the main issue is the 14 team league splitting after 2 games is unfair on teams just missing out making the top "half" so no longer in the hunt for a European place when there are still 10 games (or more) left. The remaining games then probably being meaningless when there's a very good chance that team are comfortably ahead of the relegation positions, even if it is 3 going down. Hibs could quite feasibly find themselves in that situation.

Clubs will lose money if there are meaningless games as they'll cause reduced attendance. What we don't yet know is when crowds will be allowed and when they are, will there have to be some kind of social distancing?

[munchar]

It’s time folk realised that it’s not the SPFL’s fault, it’s the pandemic that’s caused football to be stopped. All this better for Scottish football is a nonsense regarding reconstruction. It’s unfortunate some teams will go down, but they are the worst teams going down!! This 14 teams splitting after 2 rounds of fixtures is a joke. Basically a lot of folks seasons will be done after 2/3 of the season. Can you imagine Hibs just missing top 7? They’d have 12 games to play, probably all meaningless & no big games. Although the current split has flaws, it’s still a better option.

[Greenworld]

Yes and the clubs expect to get the full benefit of that. They don’t want to have to give up any of the new money.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI think Les Gray kind of touched on how clubs will fall back into what he called "self interest" when you fight go get more money the last thing you want to do is dilute it again with a larger league .
The timing is everything here and it is so wrong clubs need every penny and im sorry for partick not so much for hearts or Stranraer but the status que is a must this season

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[JimBHibees]

Excellent interview.

This should be shared everywhere.

Not his biggest fan but here he is spot on in my opinion.

Completely spot on.

[Greenworld]

What was interesting was the clear lines that budge has broken already and les gray saying that he will be having words with Anne because if she keeps it up up they will fall out.
I can see it falling at discussion stage.

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[Greenworld]

What was interesting was the clear lines that budge has broken already and les gray saying that he will be having words with Anne because if she keeps it up up they will fall out.
I can see it falling at discussion stage.

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Excellent interview.

This should be shared everywhere.

Not his biggest fan but here he is spot on in my opinion.Can someone copy and paste it please

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[Ozyhibby]

What was interesting was the clear lines that budge has broken already and les gray saying that he will be having words with Anne because if she keeps it up up they will fall out.
I can see it falling at discussion stage.

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Almost certain it will break down a discussion stage. Very much doubt they will bring anything to a vote that will be certain to lose.


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[1875godsgift]

You’re similar in your views with Henry McLeish here ✅ https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/henry-mcleish-sheer-folly-let-ann-budge-and-co-map-out-future-2542773 (https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/henry-mcleish-sheer-folly-let-ann-budge-and-co-map-out-future-2542773)

That's a well-written argument against an ill-thought out, knee-jerk reconstruction that can only be to the benefit of one or two clubs.

Also, as he rightly touched on, how arrogant and condescending is it not to involve fans in the consultation process?

[Brunswickbill]

Sportsound today, Sunday 19 April. Like night and day from Saturday's nonsense. Respect to Les Gray who comes across as a sincere knowlegeable guy who has the interests of Scottish football at heart but makes no bones about representing the interests of Hamilton (as well as being a life long Jags fan). I began to listen to the one hour podcast thinking I'd probably be scunnered, but the only scunner was Chick Young. Definitely worth a listen. Les Gray a very impressive guy. https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/p089y8pg

[munchar]

How Les didn’t tell Chic to shut the f up I’ll never know. He was turning a question into 5/6 different points, & must’ve asked another 5/6 times about having an enquiry because The Rangers day so, despite Les saying there’s no evidence to have an enquiry repeatedly!!

[Jim44]

Can someone copy and paste it please

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You would be as well clicking the link yourself as your click benefits them the same as someone else’s click. Same difference.

[Joe6-2]

How Les didn’t tell Chic to shut the f up I’ll never know. He was turning a question into 5/6 different points, & must’ve asked another 5/6 times about having an enquiry because The Rangers day so, despite Les saying there’s no evidence to have an enquiry repeatedly!!

Kris Boyd was on Sky the other day saying, open the books and prove nothing untoward is or was going on!
When are they going to demand the Huns show proof?!!!

[steviehibsleith]

Least bad option. 30 clubs below the premiership share £3.45M, it would cost the 30 about £9K each to absorb the 2 extra clubs (or about 6% of the current prize totals). That is without any increase in money from Premiership. Don’t know what next season’s figures are.


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The sky deal is purely showing 48 Premier league games

Premier sports and the BBC have the deal for cups and lower leagues

In the interview with Les Gray he said he didn’t know the figures ........... really, also when Budge says losing 4.5 million I think they do know most of the Sky SPL money is staying in the SPL

[Rory]

Mothball this season and pick up from where the league ended Feb/March 2021. Closed door games would be very poor.

[Ozyhibby]

Mothball this season and pick up from where the league ended Feb/March 2021. Closed door games would be very poor.

Hibs would go bust before then.


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[Rory]

Hibs would go bust before then.


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If large gatherings are not allowed (and I'm not assuming they won't be) is closed door games a viable option?

[Gloucester Hibs]

Hibs would go bust before then.


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We'd be one of the last to go but yeah you're probably right

[Brunswickbill]

One of the things that came out from the Les Gray interview was his attitude to a temporary or permanent reorganisation. Looking from Hamilton’s viewpoint, they would welcome a larger SPFL giving them more teams likely to occupy lower positions in the league, giving them a better chance of staying in the premier league. A temporary fix could see Hamilton in a dogfight with potentially 3 teams being relegated to return to a 12 team premier. That’s the very opposite of what Hamilton will want. Wait for the fireworks.

[BoomtownHibees]

If large gatherings are not allowed (and I'm not assuming they won't be) is closed door games a viable option?

We still wouldn’t make any money from them, unless you were charging folk to watch

[Ozyhibby]

If large gatherings are not allowed (and I'm not assuming they won't be) is closed door games a viable option?

I don’t think so. We are too dependent on gate money.


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[Marco G]

I don’t think so. We are too dependent on gate money.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAssume idea would be that Sky would broadcast some games as part of the deal, and clubs coukd stream others as pay per view? Gives some income but wont match having a real crowd there?

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[Onion]

One of the things that came out from the Les Gray interview was his attitude to a temporary or permanent reorganisation. Looking from Hamilton’s viewpoint, they would welcome a larger SPFL giving them more teams likely to occupy lower positions in the league, giving them a better chance of staying in the premier league. A temporary fix could see Hamilton in a dogfight with potentially 3 teams being relegated to return to a 12 team premier. That’s the very opposite of what Hamilton will want. Wait for the fireworks.

Exactly. EVERY single club will be voting according to their own self interest and anyone thinking otherwise is daft. Hearts will vote for anything that keeps them up - null & void, a temp fix oe even a permanent 14 year league (beggars can't be choosers). Hamilton would love to have a permanent 14 teams as it improves their chances of staying up. Celtic, Rangers and others will not want anything that reduces their revenue - money will drive their votes.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Exactly. EVERY single club will be voting according to their own self interest and anyone thinking otherwise is daft. Hearts will vote for anything that keeps them up - null & void, a temp fix oe even a permanent 14 year league (beggars can't be choosers). Hamilton would love to have a permanent 14 teams as it improves their chances of staying up. Celtic, Rangers and others will not want anything that reduces their revenue - money will drive their votes.

Very much this. Hearts lost any credibility they might have had the second they gave their preferred option as a one season only 14 team league. It proved they had no previous thoughts in their head around restructuring and how that might benefit the game as a whole .... Mind you, it also shows just how inept their management is that they didn't stop to think how asking for a one season fix would make them look and the possible impact it might have on gathering support and sympathy for reconstruction from supporters of other clubs.

As an advocate of reconstruction they would even manage to lose my support for it, I'm less a fan of selfish than I am a supporter of reconstruction.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Exactly. EVERY single club will be voting according to their own self interest and anyone thinking otherwise is daft. Hearts will vote for anything that keeps them up - null & void, a temp fix oe even a permanent 14 year league (beggars can't be choosers). Hamilton would love to have a permanent 14 teams as it improves their chances of staying up. Celtic, Rangers and others will not want anything that reduces their revenue - money will drive their votes.

Everyone should vote on their own best interests. That’s what Hearts have done all along.

[Ozyhibby]

With Nicola Sturgeon warning next season could be delayed then adding more fixtures to the calendar would be mental.


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[hibbyfraelibby]

Gary Holt the Livvi Manager, is calling for an 18 team league

He's the manager not the owner, and the owner uses one of Vlads old fax machines.

[Brightside]

He's the manager not the owner, and the owner uses one of Vlads old fax machines.

Holty is a good lad but its pointless asking Football managers / coaches re the best construction of a league. Its a finance issue wether people like that or not.

[Greenworld]

With Nicola Sturgeon warning next season could be delayed then adding more fixtures to the calendar would be mental.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThat is a great point and must be discussed by the reconstruction group. Ive said it before now is not time for change i cannot believe it is even being contemplated

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[greenpaper55]

With Nicola Sturgeon warning next season could be delayed then adding more fixtures to the calendar would be mental.


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Any talk of any football being played is just pie in the sky. Until a working vaccine is found or we just let folk off the leash and do a herd immunity thing then we can forget it. Every government is terrified of making the mistake of opening up society and the whole thing starting again and i think sport is very low down the priorities at the moment.

[Real Emerald]

Any talk of any football being played is just pie in the sky. Until a working vaccine is found or we just let folk off the leash and do a herd immunity thing then we can forget it. Every government is terrified of making the mistake of opening up society and the whole thing starting again and i think sport is very low down the priorities at the moment.

Exactly and that’s why restructuring leagues at this stage is a complete nonsense.

[Lago]

With Nicola Sturgeon warning next season could be delayed then adding more fixtures to the calendar would be mental.


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And also suggesting playing closed doors is not really feasible either.

[we are hibs]

So dempster isnt on the reconstruction committee. Looks like the spfl jumped the gun. Again

[hibbyfraelibby]

Exactly and that’s why restructuring leagues at this stage is a complete nonsense.

The tone of the FMs comments suggest we may need to move to summer football or next season is so delayed the we may only be able to get two full round of fixtures in and maybe no split with the League Cup a pipe dream. So a 22 game 20/21?

[JimBHibees]

So dempster isnt on the reconstruction committee. Looks like the spfl jumped the gun. Again

Where is that about?

[Mon Dieu4]

Where is that about?

Hibs twitter

[we are hibs]

Where is that about?

Here

[Peevemor]

So dempster isnt on the reconstruction committee. Looks like the spfl jumped the gun. Again


From the BBC

"An unwieldy 14 members, after Hibernian chief executive Leeann Dempster announced on Monday that she had withdrawn to focus on how and when fans can return to grounds."

Sound like she was on it initially.

[JimBHibees]

The tone of the FMs comments suggest we may need to move to summer football or next season is so delayed the we may only be able to get two full round of fixtures in and maybe no split with the League Cup a pipe dream. So a 22 game 20/21?

To be fair to her football is probably last on her list at present. Just outlining some of the possible issues. Certainly sounds like best case scenario would be something like September/October. Will also depend how other countries deal with it.

[SMAXXA]

From the BBC

"An unwieldy 14 members, after Hibernian chief executive Leeann Dempster announced on Monday that she had withdrawn to focus on how and when fans can return to grounds."

Sound like she was on it initially.

She was, seen it for what it is and felt her time better spent on the more important issues

[JimBHibees]

From the BBC

"An unwieldy 14 members, after Hibernian chief executive Leeann Dempster announced on Monday that she had withdrawn to focus on how and when fans can return to grounds."

Sound like she was on it initially.

It sounded as if initially there was a list of people invited to the group. Not sure if this is a positive or negative in terms of how we are likely to vote. Need to wait and see.

[Spike Mandela]

From the BBC

"An unwieldy 14 members, after Hibernian chief executive Leeann Dempster announced on Monday that she had withdrawn to focus on how and when fans can return to grounds."

Sound like she was on it initially.

Sensible to recuse herself from this committee imo, seeing as it's suggestions will have such a profound effect on Hearts one way or another. was astonished to see her name on it in the first place.

[Peevemor]

It's not clear from the wording whether she had confirmed joining the committee. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200420/0b2c1327b0c6c94c328463dcff5550c7.jpg

[Kojock]

Hibernian's Leeann Dempster has withdrawn from the SPFL's reconstruction group to focus on "the biggest issue facing our game".
Dempster was one of 15 club officials named on Friday as part of the panel, who held their first meeting on Monday.
However, the Easter Road chief executive took no part in that call.
Instead, she will instead work with other clubs "to identify how and when football supporters can safely return to Scottish grounds".

[Billy Whizz]

Hibernian's Leeann Dempster has withdrawn from the SPFL's reconstruction group to focus on "the biggest issue facing our game".
Dempster was one of 15 club officials named on Friday as part of the panel, who held their first meeting on Monday.
However, the Easter Road chief executive took no part in that call.
Instead, she will instead work with other clubs "to identify how and when football supporters can safely return to Scottish grounds".

Really sensible of Hibs to stay clear of this, we can’t be seen to be relegating the Jambos

[Peevemor]

Really sensible of Hibs to stay clear of this, we can’t be seen to be relegating the JambosWe'll have to vote eventually.

[Wilson]

Really sensible of Hibs to stay clear of this, we can’t be seen to be relegating the Jambos

Or saving them? Damned if we do damned if we don't. There will be critical sections if our support either way.

I've always been in favour of league reconstruction. I believe we play each other too many times a season if you throw in the domestic cup games. I also think some of our mid sized clubs would prosper if you lessened the likelihood of yo-yoing between the top and championship division for them - and that would benefit our game in the long run.

To that end having Leeann Dempster not interested and not involved is less appealing to me than her being in favour and driving it. Although the idea of reconstruction is very divisive as we see on this site.

[blackpoolhibs]

Really sensible of Hibs to stay clear of this, we can’t be seen to be relegating the Jambos

I know its really childish, but i'd love us to be in the same position as dundee were last week, only it was us and we had the last vote to relegate them.

I dont think i'd ever fully recover from laughing if we voted them down. :greengrin

[Billy Whizz]

We'll have to vote eventually.

Not if we get a call from Doncaster at 4.40pm on voting day, telling us we don’t need to vote😄

[Waxy]

This has zero chance of getting voted through.
There wasnt any appetite for reconstruction before this as we’ve put alot of thought and effort to get where we are.
A club owner doesnt really know what best system the league could use that would be best for all the clubs.
They just want what’s best for their own clubs.
You want reconstruction you better call in the real experts and do it properly.This would take a fair bit time. Think we’ve done it before and thats why we are in this 12 team league now.
Budge would do well to accept hearts relegation now and concentrate on her own club. Then they might have a chance of bouncing straight back.

[Billy Whizz]

This has zero chance of getting voted through.
There wasnt any appetite for reconstruction before this as we’ve put alot of thought and effort to get where we are.
A club owner doesnt really know what best system the league could use that would be best for all the clubs.
They just want what’s best for their own clubs.
You want reconstruction you better call in the real experts and do it properly.This would take a fair bit time. Think we’ve done it before and thats why we are in this 12 team league now.
Budge would do well to accept hearts relegation now and concentrate on her own club. Then they might have a chance of bouncing straight back.

All but 2 on the panel are from the lower leagues

[Greenworld]

We'll have to vote eventually.We will indeed i am going to stick with now is not the time for it it would be madness to increase the premier at this stage . I would wager already enough premier clubs already feel the same .

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[Danderhall Hibs]

I think it might’ve already been said but make all the leagues a 12 team league and this vote would get passed.

Keeps Falkirk, Partick, Stranraer etc all happy - even keeps Rangers happy in the main as they don’t want clubs relegated unfairly, leaving Hearts as the noisy minority.

[Ozyhibby]

I think it might’ve already been said but make all the leagues a 12 team league and this vote would get passed.

Keeps Falkirk, Partick, Stranraer etc all happy - even keeps Rangers happy in the main as they don’t want clubs relegated unfairly, leaving Hearts as the noisy minority.

And share TV money with 48 teams instead of 42? Not sure that would be that popular?


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[Waxy]

I think it might’ve already been said but make all the leagues a 12 team league and this vote would get passed.

Keeps Falkirk, Partick, Stranraer etc all happy - even keeps Rangers happy in the main as they don’t want clubs relegated unfairly, leaving Hearts as the noisy minority.
That would actually backfire on hearts i’d say.
They’ll have to play in a 12 team championship but with Partick and Falkirk.

[Danderhall Hibs]

And share TV money with 48 teams instead of 42? Not sure that would be that popular?


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It’s pennies the lower leagues get anyway - the Forfar (I think) chairman was on the radio last week and they were only due £3k after the decision to call the league.