NO to reconstruction

[Caversham Green]

A few questions need to be asked:

There is or was a rule that reconstruction needed a full season's notice. If that was to be enforced would this proposal still be on the table?

What are the benefits of a 14 team premiership over the current arrangement?

If there are any benefits why a five year limit?

What makes five years better than two?

Why has this proposal only been raised now?

I've never really liked the 12-team split arrangement but this episode has convinced me that it's probably the best one available for Scottish football's circumstances. No team should be able to buy their way into the top division in any sport in any country.

[weecounty hibby]

****ing disgrace if that goes through. Hibernian need to break their dignified silence if this happens. It is 100% unequivocally been a bribe and is only there to benefit one team. If she has said that the lower leagues can look after themselves then that shows she couldn't give a **** about anyone else.

[Heisenberg]

Just got to hope Hibs (hopefully) and St Mirren (maybe?) stay strong and vote against reconstruction to ensure its defeated.

[Ronniekirk]

Well Well Well Another Twist who would of thought it
Sporting Integrity Wins Hearts Style


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[Iain G]

So if they stay up does that not mean Stendahl is still under contract for another season? :wink:

[660]

Clubs still have to vote on it and Hibs and St Mirren won’t rush through reconstruction.

[Stuart93]

So if they stay up does that not mean Stendahl is still under contract for another season? :wink:

After the battering they gave us at ER using his tactics I’d rather they were forced to hire a much more inept manager

[jacomo]

Nae coincedence of course that Scott Gardiner's ICT come up. Shambles if this passes. I'd like to think Hibs would stand strong against this publicy if needed.


With play offs cancelled I do not see why ICT deserve a free pass to promotion. It makes no sense.

[Waxy]

So if they stay up does that not mean Stendahl is still under contract for another season? :wink:

Doesnt seem to matter with them. Its a skewed playing field.Endless money chucked at them and if the worst happens there’s always bribery.
I actually think this is criminal.

[bingo70]

To me, the only benefit of a 5 year adjustment instead of 2 is that it gives Hearts more time to get their **** together and pull away from the relegation trouble.

I’m pretty relaxed about the league reconstruction thing, in true that I don’t really care, I just want to see Hibs kicking a ball again. If there is to be league reconstruction next season that sees Hearts stay up, they should start on -10 points and they shouldn’t get access to the new TV deal money. This would sort the issue of other clubs being scared of the additional clubs being relegated next season.

If they do stay up because of league reconstruction and we vote for it then there’s going to be a lot of unhappy Hibs fans, I don’t see what would possibly be in it for the club to bring that pressure upon ourselves.

[MacGruber]

Na I mean you’re jumping the gun a bit.

As things stand hearts are still going down and there’ll have to be a massive swing for that not to be the case

Hope you're right mate

[CB_NO3]

With play offs cancelled I do not see why ICT deserve a free pass to promotion. It makes no sense.

League positions have been called. Who else would you expect to go up if the 14 team league gets the go ahead?

[CB_NO3]

This one has 😀

Or not.

[Stuart93]

To me, the only benefit of a 5 year adjustment instead of 2 is that it gives Hearts more time to get their **** together and pull away from the relegation trouble.

I’m pretty relaxed about the league reconstruction thing, in true that I don’t really care, I just want to see Hibs kicking a ball again. If there is to be league reconstruction next season that sees Hearts stay up, they should start on -10 points and they shouldn’t get access to the new TV deal money. This would sort the issue of other clubs being scared of the additional clubs being relegated next season.

If they do stay up because of league reconstruction and we vote for it then there’s going to be a lot of unhappy Hibs fans, I don’t see what would possibly be in it for the club to bring that pressure upon ourselves.

I think the worry of it though is hearts staying up after all of this may increase hibs fans apathy towards Scottish football in general at the fact they’ve been saved & always seem to get away with these kind of things.

That apathy although not directed towards hibs will indirectly effect hibs as a result

[04Sauzee]

With play offs cancelled I do not see why ICT deserve a free pass to promotion. It makes no sense.

Hearts have been relegated why would they come straight back up?

[berwickhibee]

I'm honestly sick of Scottish football.

Me too bud. If they stay up because of a bribe, the ball is burst. Scottish football is standing on the edge disaster.
Bribery happening right in front of everybody. Deary me. 😕

[grunt]

No team should be able to buy their way into the top division in any sport in any country.
This should be shouted loudly at every club Chairman and CEO by every football supporter in the land. (Barring Hearts, obv.)

[Chorley Hibee]

Me too bud. If they stay up because of a bribe, the ball is burst. Scottish football is standing on the edge disaster.
Bribery happening right in front of everybody. Deary me. 😕

Yip, it's one of the reasons I've not renewed yet.

I've never felt entirely convinced that this issue with Hearts' relegation was finished, and low and behold here we are with yet another proposal on the table.

Got other things I can waste my money on rather than a corrupt football competition.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

My gut was telling me this would happen.

The silence on reconstruction was deafening since the bribe occurred.

Bullying, threats, bribes and now corruption wins the day.......only in Scottish football.

No-strings attached my f'n arse!

[Gloucester Hibs]

Is Doncaster’s letter not just asking the same kind of questions Budge’s “task force” should already have established the answers to?! The whole thing stinks and I’ve got a bad feeling about this now.

[EI255]

Wow! I can't believe this is now happening.

This is pure and simple bribery. Totally corrupt.

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[The Harp Awakes]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52905133

SPFL: Neil Doncaster asks clubs about 14-team top flight for five years
Looks like the man's money is coming with strings attached after all ...

So what happened to ND's earlier requirement that all clubs email their position on Fudge's original proposal by Friday? Now ND is presenting a different proposal - I wonder why :rolleyes:

[EI255]

When Budge does fail to win the day, I wonder what strings she can pull in their court case. You'd think she'd have connections there too.

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[mjhibby]

Reconstruction was dead and buried and the Santa clause appeared then suddenly after it was about to be voted down its in doubt. If they are saved it is clearly because of the bribe by Anderson. It would be obvious to the whole world that hertz bought their place in the spl and would really show where scottish football is. Football is going to be a hard sell with no fans and this will make it harder. The damage this could do to Scottish football is incalculable. I’d love to hear the explanation from teams who have very totally against but now swithering. A bribe pure and simple and budge will be laughing her head off. What an utter farce. Even worse than sevco in 2012 imho.

[CB_NO3]

I still don't think it will pass.

[green day]

Doncaster has asked how can they get this done - its being presented as a fait accompli - its a ****ing disgrace and clearly only done to save Hearts.

If it happens, it will be corruption, pure and simple.


"The SPFL has asked clubs if they would back a 14-team Scottish Premiership for next season and, if not, how might their objections be overcome.


In a letter to clubs in the top two tiers, chief executive Neil Doncaster queried if enlarging the Premiership for five years would be more palatable."

[JohnMcM]

Without hearing from ND himself why he finds it necessary to raise this again, I'll keep my powder dry.

He has the benefit of the doubt from me at this moment. Reconstruction has already been rejected and I wonder if he is simply watching his own back, by removing Budge's next avenue of attack, claiming he should have asked all clubs at the same time. I hope he is being canny.

Should it turn out I'm wrong I'll be devastated for our national game.

[Waxy]

The jobbie wont flush, the jobbie’s breaking the toilet.

[greenlex]

I’m all for a bigger league. Boring playing the same teams 4 times so make it permanent and bring it on. Three up from the championship and hearts down should cover the no strings philanthropist element.

[Real Emerald]

Reconstruction was dead and buried and the Santa clause appeared then suddenly after it was about to be voted down its in doubt. If they are saved it is clearly because of the bribe by Anderson. It would be obvious to the whole world that hertz bought their place in the spl and would really show where scottish football is. Football is going to be a hard sell with no fans and this will make it harder. The damage this could do to Scottish football is incalculable. I’d love to hear the explanation from teams who have very totally against but now swithering. A bribe pure and simple and budge will be laughing her head off. What an utter farce. Even worse than sevco in 2012 imho.

Budge herself said it was doomed to fail so if it now succeeds then it’s obviously due to the bribe. I think the fans of every team in Scotland would rightly go mental if this is allowed. They need to be careful that thousands of fans across the country don’t jack it in all together. It’s blatant cheating.

[JimBHibees]

Doncaster has asked how can they get this done - its being presented as a fait accompli - its a ****ing disgrace and clearly only done to save Hearts.

If it happens, it will be corruption, pure and simple.


"The SPFL has asked clubs if they would back a 14-team Scottish Premiership for next season and, if not, how might their objections be overcome.


In a letter to clubs in the top two tiers, chief executive Neil Doncaster queried if enlarging the Premiership for five years would be more palatable."

Don't understand the question re if not how might objections be overcome suggests a desperation to get it done imo. Absolute shocker if this goes through. Top league expected to start 1st August.

[Spike Mandela]

I’m all for a bigger league. Boring playing the same teams 4 times so make it permanent and bring it on. Three up from the championship and hearts down should cover the no strings philanthropist element.

We’ll still play teams 4 times.

[HFC93]

Will Hibs vote for it? No. Will at least one other Prem team join Hibs in voting against the proposal? Aye. Therfore, nothing has changed.

[04Sauzee]

I’m all for a bigger league. Boring playing the same teams 4 times so make it permanent and bring it on. Three up from the championship and hearts down should cover the no strings philanthropist element.

Still going to play some teams 4 times the same as in a 12

[Dave-O]

I think we've all been played, fudge said benny had committed to supporting them for 5 years, now ND
is asking for 5 years reconstruction? I think JA has promised to underwrite the difference between 13 and
14 placed teams so the 12 don't loose out on the new SKY money, the whole thing is reeking of bribery.

[B.H.F.C]

Unless it impacts on any ‘donation’ being released to them, their is still absolutely no reason for the clubs to change their mind. That said, I have a bad feeling about this now.

It’s 8 weeks until we’re due to kick a ball so they need to get a move on so that clubs can start to prepare.

[munchar]

I don’t get this. 5 year reconstruction, for what reason? It’s only Hearts that want it to slither out of relegation. There’s never been any talk of reconstruction before this awful pandemic. Now, their trying to separate it from other leagues, why? Because it makes it easier for Hearts to get the votes after burning their bridges with other leagues! *****in disgrace & embarrassment. Proposal after proposal, when does it stop? When they finally find one that suits Hearts? The fixtures for next season should be getting sorted now for a 12 team league. Hearts have no shame. Been consistently the worst performing team, while also consistently overspending to gain an advantage. Saving them & promoting a poor Caley side isn’t going to improve the quality of football. Friday should be the end of it.

[Rick Rude]

Pretty obvious the change in direction and the 'NSA' donation are related. Might as well change the rules to be finishing bottom means you either get relegated or pay a fee to stay up. Least then everyone knows it's how it works.

[WoreTheGreen]

Heart of more bribery

[Bristolhibby]

Pretty obvious the change and direction and the 'NSA' donation are related. Might as well change the rules to be finishing bottom means you either get relegated or pay a fee to stay up. Least then everyone knows it's how it works.

This. It FN stinks!

Wish they could have found this money so quickly to pay the many people and companies they stiffed in Administration.

J

[hfc rd]

This is getting embarrassingly ridiculous now. Reconstruction is only being touted in order to save Hearts from relegation.

[grunt]

Pretty obvious the change and direction and the 'NSA' donation are related. Might as well change the rules to be finishing bottom means you either get relegated or pay a fee to stay up. Least then everyone knows it's how it works.Good point well made.

[Waxy]

Open wide Duncan, take you medicine like a good jambo.
No i wont and i’ll scream if you make me and i’ll get my rich uncle James to bribe you.

[mjhibby]

So what happened to ND's earlier requirement that all clubs email their position on Fudge's original proposal by Friday? Now ND is presenting a different proposal - I wonder why :rolleyes:

Correct me if I’m wrong but is it his job to ask this question. He is there to do the bidding of the clubs not be involved in policy matters. Just when you think they can’t look any worse they make themselves look beyond incompetent. If it’s that easy to influence policy I’m sure sevco will be watching with great interest at how they can alter Doncaster’s mind in future. A huge can of worms being opened here.

[matty_f]

It needs to be voted on, and for a few clubs it's going to be turkeys voting for Christmas.

We won't see it happen, imho.

[Heisenberg]

Will Hibs vote for it? No. Will at least one other Prem team join Hibs in voting against the proposal? Aye. Therfore, nothing has changed.

This is what I’m clinging on to. Today hasn’t decided anything but it’ll probably result in the whole thing dragging on for another few weeks. It’s getting boring.

[chrisski33]

will be funny if voted through and Hearts are relegated next year from the new setup!

[Mikey]

It needs to be voted on, and for a few clubs it's going to be turkeys voting for Christmas.

We won't see it happen, imho.

That's my take on it too. What ND has said today covers the SPFL and makes it even more difficult for Hearts to put together a court case.

It would be good if he made it clear that this is the last chance.

[Blaster]

This is what I’m clinging on to. Today hasn’t decided anything but it’ll probably result in the whole thing dragging on for another few weeks. It’s getting boring.

Or maybe the opposite if enough clubs say there is no way they will vote for it this season or never vote for a 14 team league at all.

Might just me being over optimistic

[Craigmount Hibs]

I think we've all been played, fudge said benny had committed to supporting them for 5 years, now ND
is asking for 5 years reconstruction? I think JA has promised to underwrite the difference between 13 and
14 placed teams so the 12 don't loose out on the new SKY money, the whole thing is reeking of bribery.
This

[mjhibby]

Budge herself said it was doomed to fail so if it now succeeds then it’s obviously due to the bribe. I think the fans of every team in Scotland would rightly go mental if this is allowed. They need to be careful that thousands of fans across the country don’t jack it in all together. It’s blatant cheating.

So to keep them up the game we could lose tthousands of fans and revenue just when we can I’ll afford to do so. I’m beyond raging now just feeling just what a pathetic look Scottish football is and how it is viewed by others. No wonder sjm has to constantly battle against the English players view it’s a Mickey Mouse league. I will not attend again if it goes through.

[Heckys Wheel]

Yip, it's one of the reasons I've not renewed yet.

I've never felt entirely convinced that this issue with Hearts' relegation was finished, and low and behold here we are with yet another proposal on the table.

Got other things I can waste my money on rather than a corrupt football competition.

You’re not renewing you ST for Hibs if Hearts aren’t relegated?

[Ozyhibby]

Another option Petrie missed when trying to prevent us being relegated in 2014. The flat out bribe. [emoji35]


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[ionahibby]

I think the worry of it though is hearts staying up after all of this may increase hibs fans apathy towards Scottish football in general at the fact they’ve been saved & always seem to get away with these kind of things.

That apathy although not directed towards hibs will indirectly effect hibs as a result
That’s where I’m at. Although my interest in hibs will never go, I’m fed up with Scottish football and the whole saga with “let’s keeps rangers up despite admin”, they’re pandering to the old firm and now this! Hearts finished bottom so should be relegated. Anything else is cheating and Doncaster has clearly been nudged into it by this donation. Clearly bribery. I’m sure they will be creaming themselves on sportsound about it.

[Garymcl]

A genuine question if they don’t relegate them are they going to tell Celtic they’ve not won the league remembering they’ve already gave them the trophy surely it’s got to be no relegation no league winners

[Ozyhibby]

You’re not renewing you ST for Hibs if Hearts aren’t relegated?

To be fair, if bribery and corruption are tolerated then I think it’s fair enough if people want no part of it.


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[Mikey]

You’re not renewing you ST for Hibs if Hearts aren’t relegated?

Well it'll save him the trouble of returning it. That's certainly what I'll be doing.

[hfc rd]

That’s where I’m at. Although my interest in hibs will never go, I’m fed up with Scottish football and the whole saga with “let’s keeps rangers up despite admin”, they’re pandering to the old firm and now this! Hearts finished bottom so should be relegated. Anything else is cheating and Doncaster has clearly been nudged into it by this donation. Clearly bribery. I’m sure they will be creaming themselves on sportsound about it.

Exactly. No wonder our game up here is viewed as a laughing stock because it is.

[green day]

You’re not renewing you ST for Hibs if Hearts aren’t relegated?

Dont be so quick to judge him.

If Hearts dont go down because - miraculously - clubs vote for this reconstruction plan then the game is a bogey, it is clearly bent.

[A Hi-Bee]

Me too bud. If they stay up because of a bribe, the ball is burst. Scottish football is standing on the edge disaster.
Bribery happening right in front of everybody. Deary me. 😕

The baw is well an truly bust if they allow this to happen, I give up wi the game in this country if it does, but suspect not many will give a ****.
To see they smirkin *******s if this does go ahead no thanks I will stay away from this game.
**** them after so many years following the Hibs, I will find something else to spend my own hard earned on.

No ****in integrity in the Scottish game, the little that their may have been is well and truly gone.

[Blaster]

And the offer is £2m not £4.5m according to the bbc. £50k to all 42 clubs

[Heisenberg]

“Lower league clubs met with spfl representatives today. For many of them financing a return to training with all the testing protocols, then playing behind closed doors is the main worry. Many feel they can’t even think about league reconstruction until that’s settled.“

Jane Lewis at the BBC tweeted the above. So basically it’s a non starter for now in the lower leagues.

[green day]

And the offer is £2m not £4.5m according to the bbc. £50k to all 42 clubs

I thought this was supposed to be "game changing" money?

In the context of our finances, its less than half of what we have given up on our 2019/20 prize pot money.

[grunt]

And the offer is £2m not £4.5m according to the bbc. £50k to all 42 clubsInteresting, I wonder what changed. Pretty sure it was the BBC that was saying it was £4m plus just yesterday?

@Kheredine BBC reporter yesterday
If what I’m hearing is correct , I can understand why @spfl (https://twitter.com/spfl) CE Neil Doncaster describes the James Anderson consortium money as “extremely generous” and “could make a significant difference” to the Scottish game. Am told the donation is well over £4m...

[Chorley Hibee]

You’re not renewing you ST for Hibs if Hearts aren’t relegated?

I want to see if there is a shred of integrity left in the league, or whether it's as corrupt as it currently looks.

I could turn the question round and ask, do you wish to keep contributing to a competition where the cards are stacked against your own club?

I for one am tired of it, and I'm not alone.

[CropleyWasGod]

Interesting, I wonder what changed. Pretty sure it was the BBC that was saying it was £4m plus just yesterday?

"commissions" :greengrin

[munchar]

Why is Doncaster asking questions regarding Budges proposal? Yes/no. End of. He’s now asking if it’s no, how can we make it a yes?

Some folk saying they won’t be back if it goes through. I don’t think it’s anything to do with Hibs, more it is totally demoralising us all. Paying to watch a farcical, corrupt league set up, will take all the enjoyment away. We can all see it coming. Hearts avoid relegation & go from strength to strength. This reconstruction process should’ve been put to bed long ago. Put your proposal in, if it fails, so be it. No wonder folk class Scottish football as a laughing stock. All our business should be done behind closed doors. It’s shockingly embarrassing.

[Dr Jimmy]

You’re not renewing you ST for Hibs if Hearts aren’t relegated?

If reconstruction happens to save them. I won’t be renewing any of my family’s season tickets either. Unfortunately it will be my club that takes the hit, I don’t want any part of a league that is clearly open to bribery.

[Nakedmanoncrack]

Clear that reconstruction is the favoured option now, after being as good as dead before Hearts main funder offered money!
Scandalous, but nothing in this circus should surprise.

[JohnMcM]

You’re not renewing you ST for Hibs if Hearts aren’t relegated?

It's called choice.

[Antifa Hibs]

This is what I’m clinging on to. Today hasn’t decided anything but it’ll probably result in the whole thing dragging on for another few weeks. It’s getting boring.

If there was radical change like 16 or 18 teams for a 3 year trial i'd say go for it. Hertz would be saved but also a chance to change Scottish fitbaw for the better. But 14 teams? **** that.

From what i'm reading is you'd have 26 games pre split. 26 games last year took us upto 12 Feb this year. That was with a 24 day break in the league in Dec/Jan. Clubs expecting us to commit to £450+ season tickets (as that's what it will cost soon with the rate tickets are increasing by) for our season to be potentially over by Feb 10-12th? Or perhaps even sooner if they do away or shorten the winter break.

If Hearts got away it with being in the league next season with the league being 12/16/18 teams so what. Lucky bassa's again let's crack on. 14 team's though with this split nonsense. GTF. You're season could be over by February and/or end up playing a team 3 times in 7-8 weeks.

[Real Emerald]

“Lower league clubs met with spfl representatives today. For many of them financing a return to training with all the testing protocols, then playing behind closed doors is the main worry. Many feel they can’t even think about league reconstruction until that’s settled.“

Jane Lewis at the BBC tweeted the above. So basically it’s a non starter for now in the lower leagues.

She’s hopefully correct. Maybe ND talking about 5 years so he can say that all avenues were looked at. Everyone knows if reconstruction goes through now it would look like a blatant bribe, the game would be finished.

[Stanton Spence]

A genuine question if they don’t relegate them are they going to tell Celtic they’ve not won the league remembering they’ve already gave them the trophy surely it’s got to be no relegation no league winnersThey have already been relegated mate.
Hopefully this is just Doncaster being clever and knows it won't get voted through but he's seen to be doing his bit on this so called no strings donation

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[The Harp Awakes]

I think the key here is ND. If he wants reconstruction to happen, he will present a resolution to the clubs which makes sure the vote will carry.

If getting 11-1 in the top league is an obstacle he'll find a way of changing that as well.

The other scenario though, is reconstruction is a dead duck and ND is just going through the motions.

[Heisenberg]

I think the key here is ND. If he wants reconstruction to happen, he will present a resolution to the clubs which makes sure the vote will carry.

If getting 11-1 in the top league is an obstacle he'll find a way of changing that as well.

The other scenario though, is reconstruction is a dead duck and ND is just going through the motions.

He can’t change the 11-1 voting structure without a vote taking place, which needless to say needs an 11-1 majority. It’s clear that, for ND at least, reconstruction is the preferred option. The whole “if it’s a no, what can we do to change that” won’t really carry for teams that are simply happy with the current setup though.

Clubs are due back training in a couple of weeks. Some sort of clarity before then would be welcome but I doubt we’ll get it.

[tamig]

"Good times" from a fan whose team have just been relegated. Only a Jambo could come out with such delusions.

The kiwi compo calculator will be approaching the 20m mark this time tomorrow. Makes relegation extremely worthwhile.

[B.H.F.C]

Clear that reconstruction is the favoured option now, after being as good as dead before Hearts main funder offered money!
Scandalous, but nothing in this circus should surprise.

The favoured option of who though?

Unless clubs are told they’re not getting their share of the money unless they change their mind, I do t see what reason any of them would have to actually change their mind. And it’s what they think that counts.

[green day]

I think the key here is ND. If he wants reconstruction to happen, he will present a resolution to the clubs which makes sure the vote will carry.

If getting 11-1 in the top league is an obstacle he'll find a way of changing that as well.

The other scenario though, is reconstruction is a dead duck and ND is just going through the motions.

The only way of changing the numbers in the voting structure is for the Premiership clubs to agree to it by a vote of...................you've guessed it, 11-1 :greengrin

[weecounty hibby]

I didn't ask for a refund on last year's ST and I have renewed for next season. I am seriously considering my position on the renewal if this goes through. Even if Hibs vote against it and it goes through I will reconsider. They may as well make the tip league a closed ship and invite a number if clubs to stump up a playing membership so that even if they finish bottom there is no relegation. I am not stupid enough to think we will win the league when we have two super inflated clubs but the least you can ask if the rest is that it is as level as possible. If this goes through and the benefactors keep putting money into the cheats then there is no way Hibs can compete long term. It seems there is no end to the cheating and bribery that they will stoop to or that the authorities will allow so why would I even be interested? It seriously stinks and if it was happening in a South American country we would all be throwing our hands up in horror saying it's a disgrace and that would never happen here. Guess what it's happening here, right now. ****ing disgrace and any club voting for it as well as Doncaster etc should be ashamed. But there is at least one club that knows no shame

[greenpaper55]

Doncaster said" if the clubs would back a 14 team league AND IF NOT HOW MIGHT THEIR OBJECTIONS BE OVERCOME" it's the last bit that bothers me as it seems he is hell bent on pushing this through with any time frame that would make clubs swing round to his way of thinking, he has been swayed by the cash dangled in front of him !

[Andy74]

Doncaster said" if the clubs would back a 14 team league AND IF NOT HOW MIGHT THEIR OBJECTIONS BE OVERCOME" it's the last bit that bothers me as it seems he is hell bent on pushing this through with any time frame that would make clubs swing round to his way of thinking, he has been swayed by the cash dangled in front of him !

Yep, that is the telling bit here. Complete change of direction and will no doubt lead to this now getting through one way or another.

[green&left]

Anderson's £4.75m gift to Scottish football is apparently only £2m according to BBC Sport Scotland - tweeted 30 minutes ago.

Wonder if the other £2.75m is being held back by some 'strings' should Hearts continue to be relegated to the Championship?

Give the £2m to the Championship and leagues below so they can start football in August aswell, Premiership clubs can fend for themselves with ST and TV money and Hearts/Doncaster/"Mystery" benefactors can **** right off.

[G B Young]

A genuine question if they don’t relegate them are they going to tell Celtic they’ve not won the league remembering they’ve already gave them the trophy surely it’s got to be no relegation no league winners

They've been officially relegated for about three weeks now, no going back on that. They're a Championship club now.

The only way they will become a top flight club again is by getting promoted from the Championship or by throwing enough cash at the SPFL and persuading them to create a new, expanded top league that they can be part of ie bribery.

[hfc rd]

Doncaster said" if the clubs would back a 14 team league AND IF NOT HOW MIGHT THEIR OBJECTIONS BE OVERCOME" it's the last bit that bothers me as it seems he is hell bent on pushing this through with any time frame that would make clubs swing round to his way of thinking, he has been swayed by the cash dangled in front of him !

That’s what I’m very angry about as well. It seems like he is prepared for this to drag on in order for it to be approved and the yams are saved from relegation to the championship. There just seems to be no end in sight when it’s just been completely tiresome from the get-go.

Just want it to be officially over with so we can fully focus on getting ready to go next season.

[Real Emerald]

Doncaster said" if the clubs would back a 14 team league AND IF NOT HOW MIGHT THEIR OBJECTIONS BE OVERCOME" it's the last bit that bothers me as it seems he is hell bent on pushing this through with any time frame that would make clubs swing round to his way of thinking, he has been swayed by the cash dangled in front of him !

The clubs have had their meetings now, it needs to be put to bed. I’m sure there will be a lot of anger amongst clubs that after having had their discussions with the SPFL and then being asked again about another tweak to it. It really has to end.

[Hibs90]

I didn't ask for a refund on last year's ST and I have renewed for next season. I am seriously considering my position on the renewal if this goes through. Even if Hibs vote against it and it goes through I will reconsider. They may as well make the tip league a closed ship and invite a number if clubs to stump up a playing membership so that even if they finish bottom there is no relegation. I am not stupid enough to think we will win the league when we have two super inflated clubs but the least you can ask if the rest is that it is as level as possible. If this goes through and the benefactors keep putting money into the cheats then there is no way Hibs can compete long term. It seems there is no end to the cheating and bribery that they will stoop to or that the authorities will allow so why would I even be interested? It seriously stinks and if it was happening in a South American country we would all be throwing our hands up in horror saying it's a disgrace and that would never happen here. Guess what it's happening here, right now. ****ing disgrace and any club voting for it as well as Doncaster etc should be ashamed. But there is at least one club that knows no shame

Good post. Agree completely.

[007]

I’m all for a bigger league. Boring playing the same teams 4 times so make it permanent and bring it on. Three up from the championship and hearts down should cover the no strings philanthropist element.

Changing to 14 doesn't improve it. It actually means 8 of the 14 play more teams 4 times than they do now.

Current set up is all teams play:
5 teams x 4
6 teams x 3

Proposed set up top 6 play:
5 teams x 4
8 teams x 2

Bottom 8 play:
7 teams x 4
6 teams x 2

[Caversham Green]

I suspect Doncaster is just doing the bidding of a member club and a generous benefactor. They want it to go through him because Budge has zero credibility and it would look like a threat coming from Benny. He has - or should have - no affiliation to any single club so should have no preference one way or the other. He probably doesn't have much choice but to ask the question if Hearts have asked him to do so. I do wonder what the rest of the SPFL board are doing though.

[pollution]

There is no way that the league will be re constructed next season ie starting in August or so this year.

If it were to happen then ND will have shown that the premier league can be bought at the behest of a relegated team.

Perhaps a happier solution can be in place for 21/22 season, who knows. For Hearts to have instigated a reform which benefits them gratuitously

now would place the integrity of Scottish football at risk. After all, did Hearts request a new league set up this time last year??

[ac1]

I didn't ask for a refund on last year's ST and I have renewed for next season. I am seriously considering my position on the renewal if this goes through. Even if Hibs vote against it and it goes through I will reconsider. They may as well make the tip league a closed ship and invite a number if clubs to stump up a playing membership so that even if they finish bottom there is no relegation. I am not stupid enough to think we will win the league when we have two super inflated clubs but the least you can ask if the rest is that it is as level as possible. If this goes through and the benefactors keep putting money into the cheats then there is no way Hibs can compete long term. It seems there is no end to the cheating and bribery that they will stoop to or that the authorities will allow so why would I even be interested? It seriously stinks and if it was happening in a South American country we would all be throwing our hands up in horror saying it's a disgrace and that would never happen here. Guess what it's happening here, right now. ****ing disgrace and any club voting for it as well as Doncaster etc should be ashamed. But there is at least one club that knows no shame

The worry for me is all the other clubs will shrug their shoulders and have a wee laugh about 'bribery' but wont actually care that much. It will only be Hibs fans that lose the plot about it and there wont be enough Hibs fans that care enough either. I will continue to pay for the season ticket so Hibs are not financially affected but I wont be using it. That is not because of Hibs but I will have better things to do with my time then attend a league that you can bribe your way out of relegation. It will be Scottish football I am done with

[Springbank]

14 team top flight starting in Aug 2021 means hearts play 20/21 in the Championship but with additional promotion place?

[Col2]

I didn't ask for a refund on last year's ST and I have renewed for next season. I am seriously considering my position on the renewal if this goes through. Even if Hibs vote against it and it goes through I will reconsider. They may as well make the tip league a closed ship and invite a number if clubs to stump up a playing membership so that even if they finish bottom there is no relegation. I am not stupid enough to think we will win the league when we have two super inflated clubs but the least you can ask if the rest is that it is as level as possible. If this goes through and the benefactors keep putting money into the cheats then there is no way Hibs can compete long term. It seems there is no end to the cheating and bribery that they will stoop to or that the authorities will allow so why would I even be interested? It seriously stinks and if it was happening in a South American country we would all be throwing our hands up in horror saying it's a disgrace and that would never happen here. Guess what it's happening here, right now. ****ing disgrace and any club voting for it as well as Doncaster etc should be ashamed. But there is at least one club that knows no shame

I will ask for a refund and make it clear I won’t renew again for foreseeable IF Hibs vote for it. What most are forgetting is the **** show of a 6/8 split which would take place at the end of Jan and potentially 14 meaningless games for clubs in 6-9th

[Hibeesforever]

Time now for Hibs to secure the support of a couple of teams and then announce their dissatisfaction with the process. We cant be quiet on this, we should be vocally against and explain the reasons why, so there is no doubt.

[calumhibee1]

I will ask for a refund and make it clear I won’t renew again for foreseeable IF Hibs vote for it. What most are forgetting is the **** show of a 6/8 split which would take place at the end of Jan and potentially 14 meaningless games for clubs in 6-9th

Yup. What a farce the season would be with so many meaningless games for so many teams. 14 teams is literally the worst amount of teams I can think of.

[Dave-O]

And the offer is £2m not £4.5m according to the bbc. £50k to all 42 clubs

I sincerely hope that we make a statement on Friday thanking benny for his generous donation/bribe BUT
Hibernian Football Club will not be accepting it on the grounds of sporting integrity, you cannot buy our vote.

**** all this dignified silence s***, it gets you nowhere, football is rotten to the core in this country.

[Heckys Wheel]

Well it'll save him the trouble of returning it. That's certainly what I'll be doing.

You need to get a life pal.

Is there a Hibs.net version of the JKB Meltdown twitter page? This thread from lunchtime today is ripe for the picking with bed wetters and toys out the pram.

[007]

The favoured option of who though?

Unless clubs are told they’re not getting their share of the money unless they change their mind, I do t see what reason any of them would have to actually change their mind. And it’s what they think that counts.

They might not change their minds if they'd been asked about 14-14-14 however the clubs have only been asked about a 14 team Premiership and the remaining structure is left open, still to be worked out. Basically it is Budge's put us and our co conspirators for null and void, Inverness, in the top league and the rest can figure out their own solution.

[Since452]

Are we just going to keep on having talks on reconstruction and votes until Hearts stay up? Seems like that's what's happening

[04Sauzee]

You need to get a life pal.

Is there a Hibs.net version of the JKB Meltdown twitter page? This thread from lunchtime today is ripe for the picking with bed wetters and toys out the pram.

Had a look and there is 😂😂

They don't seem to have posted anything since 3rd March 😅

[blackpoolhibs]

I think people need to calm down a bit, a 14 team league suited nobody last week, it does not suit enough teams now.

In fact, i could see teams voting it in for 1 season much more than 5 if it was just to save the gimps.

[Hibeesforever]

Has Budge changed the vote, If the lower leagues are fending for themselves what are they now voting on...total corruption!

[matty_f]

I think people need to calm down a bit, a 14 team league suited nobody last week, it does not suit enough teams now.

In fact, i could see teams voting it in for 1 season much more than 5 if it was just to save the gimps.
That's exactly what I think. The issue of three teams being relegated further down the line is a big negative, and the idea of a bottom 8 is ridiculous. Season over in February for those lucky chaps.

[Heisenberg]

Has Budge changed the vote, If the lower leagues are fending for themselves what are they now voting on...total corruption!

The lower league clubs are still being asked to give their opinions on her proposal, it’s just that she doesn’t care what they think.

[grunt]

14 team top flight starting in Aug 2021 means hearts play 20/21 in the Championship but with additional promotion place?
Also no relegation from Premiership in 20/21 in that case.

[RossScott1991]

Said from day 1, genuinely believe they will worm their way out of it. The fact it is in June and we are still discussing this says it all.

A massive jobby that just doesn’t flush.

[macca70]

I think people need to calm down a bit, a 14 team league suited nobody last week, it does not suit enough teams now.

In fact, i could see teams voting it in for 1 season much more than 5 if it was just to save the gimps.

£50k for a yes vote might change a few clubs stance though

[hibbyfraelibby]

Throttling back the rockets as I believe Doncaster, correctly, is asking a question he had been asked in one of the closed meetings.

He is far from promoting anything. Bully Budge is still muttering threats in the background and as any dilligent CEO would do he is ensuring that Cul-de-sac is entered, found to be a dead end and reversed out of back onto the main road. In doing so he cut the ground from under the wee crone.

[Hibeesmad]

Said from day 1, genuinely believe they will worm their way out of it. The fact it is in June and we are still discussing this says it all.

A massive jobby that just doesn’t flush.

😂😂

[Caversham Green]

The lower league clubs are still being asked to give their opinions on her proposal, it’s just that she doesn’t care what they think.

Yep, they're no longer pretending to be fighting for fairness to Partick or Stranraer, it's all about Hearts. Always has been really.

I think they've lost a bit of perspective now. Surely a season in the second tier isn't going to be so bad that they have to disrupt the whole of Scottish football for five years to avoid it. Especially when they thoroughly deserve to be relegated. They're going to lose any goodwill that's been gained through Benny's donation.

[CapitalGreen]

They might not change their minds if they'd been asked about 14-14-14 however the clubs have only been asked about a 14 team Premiership and the remaining structure is left open, still to be worked out. Basically it is Budge's put us and our co conspirators for null and void, Inverness, in the top league and the rest can figure out their own solution.

A temporary move to a 14 team Premiership will mean 30% of Championship clubs will be relegated in one season down the line once we revert to a 12 team premiership. There is no way to implement a temporary change to the Premiership only without impacting Championship clubs, either now or at some point in the future.

[green day]

Has Budge changed the vote, If the lower leagues are fending for themselves what are they now voting on...total corruption!

Given that part of this proposal is to push two Championship clubs (Hearts and ICT) into the Premiership, then there are a number of votes that need to happen.

The Premiership need to vote 11-1 in favour (clearly the prize pot changes as well)

The Championship and lower league votes are same as before because they will all change as a result of this, including (one assumes) the "winner" of next years championship getting considerably smaller %age than Dundee Utd got this season - £160k less, to be exact.

While I was as outraged as anyone when it first came on the BBC site, I have had my bolognese and considered it further - its still not a goer.

p.s. If it does pass, then a lot more than £50k has gone to some clubs.

[neil7908]

Quite nervous about this but my gut says Doncaster et al have been wounded by all the trouble Sevco whipped up and are being incredibly cautious in trying to show they are supporting clubs in a difficult time.

I may be wrong and this could turn into a horror show, at which point I'd be seriously considering dropping anything to do with Scottish football but for now I think we just need to see how this plays out.

[CockneyRebel]

[QUOTE=Caversham Green;6192421]Yep, they're no longer pretending to be fighting for fairness to Partick or Stranraer, it's all about Hearts. Always has been really.

I think they've lost a bit of perspective now. Surely a season in the second tier isn't going to be so bad that they have to disrupt the whole of Scottish football for five years to avoid it. Especially when they thoroughly deserve to be relegated. They're going to lose any goodwill that's been gained through Benny's donation./QUOTE]


I posted on another thread a few days ago. What is the desperation they have over there? It's relegation not liquidation. OK nobody wants to be relegated but it ain't the end of the world. They would most likely be favorites to come back up fairly quickly and just lose a few quid while they did. They have money coming in faster than they can squander it but then I suppose that big teams don't get relegated eh?

[Wakeyhibee]

Anderson's £4.75m gift to Scottish football is apparently only £2m according to BBC Sport Scotland - tweeted 30 minutes ago.

Wonder if the other £2.75m is being held back by some 'strings' should Hearts continue to be relegated to the Championship?

Give the £2m to the Championship and leagues below so they can start football in August aswell, Premiership clubs can fend for themselves with ST and TV money and Hearts/Doncaster/"Mystery" benefactors can **** right off.

Prize money for 13th/14th ????

[Waxy]

The clubs are meant to email the decision on this now basically.
So the clubs have looked at it and talked about it.
Its obvious its a no.
Why are we today getting this shoved in the way?
How many times have we been through this?
Hearts want some other club or clubs to pay for their relegation.

[007]

Doncaster has backed reconstruction and given it the best chance it could have of passing the vote. That means if it goes to court there can't be any accusations of the SPFL board trying to block it and it lost fair and square in a democratic vote following the SPFL rules.

[Pete70]

So, have I got this right?

As at Saturday morning;
There is a number clubs that have no interest league in reconstruction just to save Hearts. AB accepts her proposal is doomed.

Saturday afternoon;
AB says she know someone who wants to offer an unconditional sum of money, no strings attached, to save Scottish football and urges ND to speak this person.

Monday;
ND has constructive talks with JA about JA's offer of unconditional money to save Scottish football.

Wednesday;
Quote from BBC "The SPFL has asked clubs if they would back a 14-team Scottish Premiership for next season and, if not, how might their objections be overcome. In a letter to clubs in the top two tiers, chief executive Neil Doncaster queried if enlarging the Premiership for five years would be more palatable."

Am I to believe that JA's offer is still unconditional?

[007]

[QUOTE=Caversham Green;6192421]Yep, they're no longer pretending to be fighting for fairness to Partick or Stranraer, it's all about Hearts. Always has been really.

I think they've lost a bit of perspective now. Surely a season in the second tier isn't going to be so bad that they have to disrupt the whole of Scottish football for five years to avoid it. Especially when they thoroughly deserve to be relegated. They're going to lose any goodwill that's been gained through Benny's donation./QUOTE]


I posted on another thread a few days ago. What is the desperation they have over there? It's relegation not liquidation. OK nobody wants to be relegated but it ain't the end of the world. They would most likely be favorites to come back up fairly quickly and just lose a few quid while they did. They have money coming in faster than they can squander it but then I suppose that big teams don't get relegated eh?

Budge said in her interview on Saturday it isn't about the glory of being in the Premiership, it's about saving jobs. Anyone buying that line?

[Onion]

Quite nervous about this but my gut says Doncaster et al have been wounded by all the trouble Sevco whipped up and are being incredibly cautious in trying to show they are supporting clubs in a difficult time.

I may be wrong and this could turn into a horror show, at which point I'd be seriously considering dropping anything to do with Scottish football but for now I think we just need to see how this plays out.

Me too. If we get the stage where a football fan can buy their team out of relegation, the game is truly bust.

[Billy Whizz]

Jim Duffy was just on Radio Clyde Super Scoreboard just now
Was basically saying again now is not the time for reconstruction
Also added that he’d heard a few titbits, and clubs weren’t happy with a permanent reconstruction for 5 years

[CapitalGreen]

The missing £2.75m

Yesterday we were told the amount of money being donated to Scottish Football was £4.75m. Today we are being told £2m is to be distributed equally amongst the 42 clubs.

So what is happening with the missing £2.75m?

My theory:

The prize money for 12th position on the SPFL for season 2018/19 was £1.125m. The new Sky deal is reportedly ~20% higher than the combined value of the previous deals. A 20% uplift in the prize money would see 12th place awarded £1.35m.

If the Premiership were to add 2 more clubs while ensuring no club received less prize money than they could under 12 teams, 13th and 14th place would need to earn the same as 12th (£1.35m).

2 x £1.35m = £2.7m

Could Hearts/James Anderson be offering to fund this prize money for 13th and 14th place in order to influence Hearts return to the Premiership?

[green day]

Could Hearts/James Anderson be offering to fund this prize money for 13th and 14th place in order to influence Hearts return to the Premiership?

No

[007]

Anderson's £4.75m gift to Scottish football is apparently only £2m according to BBC Sport Scotland - tweeted 30 minutes ago.

Wonder if the other £2.75m is being held back by some 'strings' should Hearts continue to be relegated to the Championship?

Give the £2m to the Championship and leagues below so they can start football in August aswell, Premiership clubs can fend for themselves with ST and TV money and Hearts/Doncaster/"Mystery" benefactors can **** right off.


Prize money for 13th/14th ????

That sounds quite feasible.

Maybe Doncaster has told him 2 Premiership clubs have already voted no meaning the 13th & 14 prize money top up no longer applies.

[tamig]

Jim Duffy was just on Radio Clyde Super Scoreboard just now
Was basically saying again now is not the time for reconstruction
Also added that he’d heard a few titbits, and clubs weren’t happy with a permanent reconstruction for 5 years

Temporary surely Billy?

[JimboHibs]

14 team league for whatever reason becomes successful and 5 years down the line the SPFL revert to change it 😂

[CapitalGreen]

No

Go on...why not?

[Billy Whizz]

Temporary surely Billy?

Is 5 years not permanent

[CapitalGreen]

Is 5 years not permanent

If it has a time frame associated with it then it’s not permanent.

[Billy Whizz]

If it has a time frame associated with it then it’s not permanent.

Whatever we want to call it, Duffy said it wasn’t going down well

[green day]

Go on...why not?

Because it would be corrupt, but it would also be obvious because the prize pot would need to be adjusted and due to the voting requirements, every man and their dog would then be aware of the corruption.

While it sounds vaguely feasible, even in the bonkers world of Scottish football that cant happen.

[007]

Whatever we want to call it, Duffy said it wasn’t going down well

That's fine. Doncaster gave it the best possible chance. Hearts can have no cause for complaint about that.

[Juice-Terry]

I'm not quite sure the outrage on here is justified. Presumably, what's happened is that Budge has finally made a formal request to SPFL to change the league format. The reason why she's doing it now is obvious: she thinks more clubs will be sympathetic to Hearts after JA's NSA contribution to Scottish fitba. Doncaster then has to ask all clubs what they think about this proposal as he's acting on a formal request from a member club. Having said that, and as others have pointed out, the phrase "AND IF NOT HOW MIGHT THEIR OBJECTIONS BE OVERCOME" is jarring. But perhaps asking this was part of the formal request from Budge? I see no reason to suppose that Doncaster is actually in favour of any of this. I also think there's no chance this will go through.

[CapitalGreen]

Whatever we want to call it, Duffy said it wasn’t going down well

Good. I’m not against reconstruction per se but it has to be permanent and it shouldn’t be rushed through.

[Ronniekirk]

I'm not quite sure the outrage on here is justified. Presumably, what's happened is that Budge has finally made a formal request to SPFL to change the league format. The reason why she's doing it now is obvious: she thinks more clubs will be sympathetic to Hearts after JA's NSA contribution to Scottish fitba. Doncaster then has to ask all clubs what they think about this proposal as he's acting on a formal request from a member club. Having said that, and as others have pointed out, the phrase "AND IF NOT HOW MIGHT THEIR OBJECTIONS BE OVERCOME" is jarring. But perhaps asking this was part of the formal request from Budge? I see no reason to suppose that Doncaster is actually in favour of any of this. I also think there's no chance this will go through.

Once you have a list of objections and ways they may be overcome , the next logical step is work them through to see what that leaves and then vote on that surely ?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

so, some dude donating money to scottish football has actually been given the right to control the set up of the game


it's ******* obscene if some **** that has **** all to do with the rules of our game gets the reward for opening his wallet so he can brag to his rich mates that he decided how our game should operate...:confused:

**** his bribe :grr:

.. and breathe

[greenpaper55]

What smells iffy to me is why was Budge the go between the millionaire and the SPFL, there was no need for her to be anywhere near this if it is a no strings attached deal ?

[007]

What smells iffy to me is why was Budge the go between the millionaire and the SPFL, there was no need for her to be anywhere near this if it is a no strings attached deal ?

Maybe the vanishing £2.75m has been taken by Budge as a fee for setting up the deal.

[greenpaper55]

The pot is only 2 million according to this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52912118

[Carheenlea]

The offer of “benevolence” from James Anderson and League reconstruction have to be two completely different discussions. Having both at same time is simply an open invite for accusations of corruption.

The SPFL have been backed into a corner little bit here and hopefully the clubs will see sense and make the correct decision on Friday. Then it will be the time to discuss the act of philanthropy being offered and only then we will see exactly how generous that offer is to be.

[tamig]

Is 5 years not permanent

No.

[tamig]

I'm not quite sure the outrage on here is justified. Presumably, what's happened is that Budge has finally made a formal request to SPFL to change the league format. The reason why she's doing it now is obvious: she thinks more clubs will be sympathetic to Hearts after JA's NSA contribution to Scottish fitba. Doncaster then has to ask all clubs what they think about this proposal as he's acting on a formal request from a member club. Having said that, and as others have pointed out, the phrase "AND IF NOT HOW MIGHT THEIR OBJECTIONS BE OVERCOME" is jarring. But perhaps asking this was part of the formal request from Budge? I see no reason to suppose that Doncaster is actually in favour of any of this. I also think there's no chance this will go through.
And presumably no obligation for any club to answer the second part? A no with a “because we like twelve” would suffice. If they felt the need to respond to the second bit.

[Eyrie]

I'm looking forward to Friday.

But then I'm confident that the clubs will reject the complete farce that is a 14 team league.

Remember it's 11-1 for the Premiership, 8-2 for the second tier and 15-5 for leagues one and two for this to be passed.

[Greenworld]

No.Its as perm as you get nowadays

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

[Glory Lurker]

So clubs that are against reconstruction are to propose a reconstruction scheme?

[Smiggy 7-0]

If feeling is so strong about what's happening, should we not contact the club to express our feelings, or petition them.
Mind you they will probably know how we feel.

[007]

And presumably no obligation for any club to answer the second part? A no with a “because we like twelve” would suffice. If they felt the need to respond to the second bit.

"F*** The Hearts" ought to cover it too.

[WhileTheChief..]

So much worrying and conspiracies going on here.

Sky have shown we don’t need the mighty big Hearts in the top league and we’ve all moved on to talking about virtual season tickets and social distancing at games.

It’s done, they’re down and they’re not coming back. The world has moved on.

[Waxy]

Benny Anderson should have waited a bit.Waited till the clubs sorted out the reconstruction farce so they could start planning ahead.
Waited till things became a bit clearer about what next season would look like.If he was going to splash the cash there was no harm in waiting a bit longer.
His last gasp timing and Bribery are a complete farce and he's making Scottish football a laughing stock.

[Speedway]

Benny Anderson should have waited a bit.Waited till the clubs sorted out the reconstruction farce so they could start planning ahead.
Waited till things became a bit clearer about what next season would look like.If he was going to splash the cash there was no harm in waiting a bit longer.
His last gasp timing and Bribery are a complete farce and he's making Scottish football a laughing stock.

It doesn’t need his help for that.

[Wat Dabney]

Does it say anywhere that a 14 team premiere league must include Hearts? They are officially a Championship side now since they were officially relegated. If the relegation gets voided would that mean that Celtic wouldn't be champions too????? :confused:

[munchar]

This is 100% to help Hearts. If Hearts stay down, they have to play full season to start balancing the books. They must start before January. This “no strings donation” should help Championship clubs cover costs to start the season earlier. The longer season will also suit Hearts who “should” have to much quality over a longer season.

[stoneyburn hibs]

This is 100% to help Hearts. If Hearts stay down, they have to play full season to start balancing the books. They must start before January. This “no strings donation” should help Championship clubs cover costs to start the season earlier. The longer season will also suit Hearts who “should” have to much quality over a longer season.


Tbh I'm not fussed if it helps Hearts, as long as they're playing in the championship next season.

[Ozyhibby]

If it has a time frame associated with it then it’s not permanent.

If it needs a vote to return it to the original then it’s permanent but if it auto reverts without a vote then it’s temporary.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bristolhibby]

The pot is only 2 million according to this

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52912118

Are clubs that skint that they’d whore themselves out for £47.6k?

J

[CMurdoch]

As before Celtic, Rangers, Hibs, Aberdeen & Dundee Utd won't want a 14 team league because it would mean less money for them and the probability of them being relegated is very small.
St Johnstone, Kilmarnock, Motherwell, Livingston, St Mirren and Hamilton won't want a temporary 14 team league because there is a real probability that they could be the one of the 3 teams to be relegated to the Championship after year 5. They will also fancy their chances of avoiding relegation next season in a league minus Hearts.

Doncaster knows all of the above and is doing a theatrical job at heading of the chances of a successful court case by being seen to do all in his power to find an acceptable solution for Hearts. Once again it will be their fellow member clubs who will kb them on Friday and off to the Championship they will go for season 2020/21.

No chance of this getting an 11-1 vote in Hearts favour.
Doncaster is leading them up the garden path.

[Andy74]

As before Celtic, Rangers, Hibs, Aberdeen & Dundee Utd won't want a 14 team league because it would mean less money for them and the probability of them being relegated is very small.
St Johnstone, Kilmarnock, Motherwell, Livingston, St Mirren and Hamilton won't want a temporary 14 team league because there is a real probability that they could be the one of the 3 teams to be relegated to the Championship after year 5. They will also fancy their chances of avoiding relegation next season in a league minus Hearts.

No chance this is getting an 11-1 vote.

Doncaster is also doing a good job at heading of the chances of any court case brought by Hearts being successful by being seen to do all in his power to offer a solution to save Hearts. Once again it will be their fellow member clubs who will kb them on Friday.

I think the tactic of pushing it out to 5 is to sway the clubs that might have thought they'd have been in the mix if bigger numbers were up for relegation.

[bingo70]

I think the tactic of pushing it out to 5 is to sway the clubs that might have thought they'd have been in the mix if bigger numbers were up for relegation.

Would it not just be the same thing in 5 years though Andy?

I don’t understand the significance of the difference.

[Tug Wilson]

£50k for a yes vote might change a few clubs stance though

Not in the Premiership it won't. And that is where it needs to pass.

[Tug Wilson]

As before Celtic, Rangers, Hibs, Aberdeen & Dundee Utd won't want a 14 team league because it would mean less money for them and the probability of them being relegated is very small.
St Johnstone, Kilmarnock, Motherwell, Livingston, St Mirren and Hamilton won't want a temporary 14 team league because there is a real probability that they could be the one of the 3 teams to be relegated to the Championship after year 5. They will also fancy their chances of avoiding relegation next season in a league minus Hearts.

No chance this is getting an 11-1 vote.

Doncaster knows all of the above and is doing a theatrical job at heading of the chances of a successful court case by being seen to do all in his power to find an acceptable solution for Hearts. Once again it will be their fellow member clubs who will kb them on Friday and off to the Championship they will go for season 2020/21.

This is what I think too.

Too many piling on Doncaster. He has played a blinder so far.

[Bobby's Cinema]

Does this latest vote still require the same % to say yes in across each of the four leagues? Or is this a premiership only vote? What votes are needed?

[Kojock]

Would it not just be the same thing in 5 years though Andy?

I don’t understand the significance of the difference.

In five years time will it automatically revert to 12 or will it go to a vote. What will be the vote ratio to change? 13-1? 12-2? Teams around the relegation area would never vote to return to 12 so we would be stuck with 14 whether it was working or not.

[bingo70]

In five years time will it automatically revert to 12 or will it go to a vote. What will be the vote ratio to change? 13-1? 12-2? Teams around the relegation area would never vote to return to 12 so we would be stuck with 14 wether it was working or not.

And what happens if the team that gets relegated has a rich backer that wants to bribe the rest of the clubs if they get to stay up?

Have to go through this every time a club with money gets relegated?

[Glory Lurker]

As far as I can see a rejection will only be final* on Friday if more than 50% of the "no" majority says nothing would make them reconsider. Otherwise we're left with a demonstrable possibility that the vote could be reversed if a different option was put forward. In which case, the suggestions will surely have to be investigated if the authorities are going to be consistent. One way or the other I think reconstruction looks more likely than it did before.

* - although in reality nothing is final until next season's premiership starts without Hearts.

[hibeesjoe]

Are clubs that skint that they’d whore themselves out for £47.6k?

JExactly. Is Scottish football that tin pot that £50k would make a difference to teams in the premiership. Worrying times if true.

I know it would help pay for covid-19 testing but teams need to look further into the future than this.

So much for this money being no strings attached.

Sent from my MI 8 using Tapatalk

[loanheadhibby]

I’m sure a lot of people would like reconstruction. If so, then have a proper debate and include all interested parties. Let’s discuss summer football, bigger league, axing/enhancing the league cup,a British cup etc. Anything less is just pandering to queen ann.

[Andy74]

Would it not just be the same thing in 5 years though Andy?

I don’t understand the significance of the difference.

Depends on the model I guess but if they went 14 next year then back to 12 you could have 3 teams relegated next year. The likes of St mire and Hamilton are not going to go for that.

If you delay that for 5 years it is less of an immediate issue.

[FilipinoHibs]

Exactly. Is Scottish football that tin pot that £50k would make a difference to teams in the premiership. Worrying times if true.

I know it would help pay for covid-19 testing but teams need to look further into the future than this.

So much for this money being no strings attached.

Sent from my MI 8 using Tapatalk

Yes not enough to keep the championship going without paying spectators. Championship clubs need £1 million each to keep running without gate income.

[Radge70]

I’m sure a lot of people would like reconstruction. If so, then have a proper debate and include all interested parties. Let’s discuss summer football, bigger league, axing/enhancing the league cup,a British cup etc. Anything less is just pandering to queen ann.
If the pandemic had arrived in this country a few months earlier then its guarenteed Queen Anne would have wanted to discuss summer football. It didn't though so we've not heard a peep from her in that regard.

[green day]

Dave Cormack just said on The Nine that while Aberdeen were pro the 2 year temp deal, the 5 year one proposed today held no interest for them.

[007]

Dave Cormack just said on The Nine that while Aberdeen were pro the 2 year temp deal, the 5 year one proposed today held no interest for them.

Did Martin Geissler start squealing at him?

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Did Martin Geissler start squealing at him?

:greengrin

[H18 SFR]

Dave Cormack just said on The Nine that while Aberdeen were pro the 2 year temp deal, the 5 year one proposed today held no interest for them.

This time next week we will be discussing a 3 year plan.

[green day]

He also made the point that we are into June and football starts in 2 months so this uncertainty is unhelpful.

I suspect Budges plans are out of time.

[Col2]

Did Martin Geissler start squealing at him?

😂😂😂

It was the same high pitch as Alan Preston on Saturday Sportsound.

[The Harp Awakes]

Dave Cormack just said on The Nine that while Aberdeen were pro the 2 year temp deal, the 5 year one proposed today held no interest for them.

The other thing he said was that we're 8 weeks away from the start of a new season, and was inferring talk of reconstruction is timing out.

Interesting comments. Sounds from what he said that any agreement is unlikely.

On reflection, more likely that ND is just going through the motions or it is a last ditch attempt.

[EI255]

Why does everyone in Scotland (barring Hibernian) seem to want to save that jobby little maroon outfit? Dance Hall dick heads. Club with pathetic history. Wish they'd just go away down their wate pipe with the rest of their jobbies. I have no idea why anyone would want to plough cash into an outfit (and bribe in their favour) and which bleeds cash and has cheated and fooled our game for decades.

Sent from my LG-H840 using Tapatalk

[007]

He also made the point that we are into June and football starts in 2 months so this uncertainty is unhelpful.

I suspect Budges plans are out of time.

Speed is of the essence she said. Get reconstruction done in 3 weeks she said. 7 weeks later and it still isn't done. She's only got herself to blame if chairmen are now changing from 'yes' to 'no' as a result. Cormack was her biggest supporter too.

She wasted about 2 weeks coming up with that long winded "discussion document" that could have said the same thing using less than 10% of the word count. After it was kicked out by the Premiership 1st time around, one of the reconstruction panel, possibly Les Gray, said that they had a proposal about 95% completed. Instead of conflating reconstruction with the testing etc and trying to make it not about saving Hearts but about saving Scottish football, she could have just finished the final 5% within a couple of days.

[Irish_Steve]

This has taken so many twists and turns that I can`t remember what I`ve read or not!

Have the clubs actually taken a vote on re-construction? I know it was thrown out when Queen Ann first suggested it but a vote wasn`t actually taken. Similarly, have the Board voted on reconstruction too or would they just rubber-stamp any vote the clubs decided on?

I would think that Neil Doncaster would want a vote to go ahead so that he could say he is just implimenting the clubs wishes, another nail in the Fartz legal case

[Bobby's Cinema]

Speed is of the essence she said. Get reconstruction done in 3 weeks she said. 7 weeks later and it still isn't done. She's only got herself to blame if chairmen are now changing from 'yes' to 'no' as a result. Cormack was her biggest supporter too.

She wasted about 2 weeks coming up with that long winded "discussion document" that could have said the same thing using less than 10% of the word count. After it was kicked out by the Premiership 1st time around, one of the reconstruction panel, possibly Les Gray, said that they had a proposal about 95% completed. Instead of conflating reconstruction with the testing etc and trying to make it not about saving Hearts but about saving Scottish football, she could have just finished the final 5% within a couple of days.
Not like her

[007]

Not like her

Doctor Waffle.

Cormack coming out against it pretty much confirms it as a dead duck. If there were any uncertain chairmen considering changing from a 'no' to a 'yes', seeing Cormack now switching to 'no' will help them stick with their 'no'. He's also helped them with a reason why they're objecting.

[Irish_Steve]

Good to see that this thread is now gaining coverage on Brokeback lol

[007]

This has taken so many twists and turns that I can`t remember what I`ve read or not!

Have the clubs actually taken a vote on re-construction? I know it was thrown out when Queen Ann first suggested it but a vote wasn`t actually taken. Similarly, have the Board voted on reconstruction too or would they just rubber-stamp any vote the clubs decided on?

I would think that Neil Doncaster would want a vote to go ahead so that he could say he is just implimenting the clubs wishes, another nail in the Fartz legal case

Clubs have to email by Friday whether they are for it or not and if they are not, how might their objections be overcome. It seems to be an informal vote because it doesn't seem to have been put to them as a firm proposal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52905133

[Irish_Steve]

Clubs have to email by Friday whether they are for it or not and if they are not, how might their objections be overcome. It seems to be an informal vote because it doesn't seem to have been put to them as a firm proposal.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52905133

So, if we have an "informal" no vote, does it still have to go to a proposal to get the definitive vote - this is absolutely nuts

[007]

Good to see that this thread is now gaining coverage on Brokeback lol

Friday should be interesting when the voting results come out. Either our forum or their's will go into meltdown. :rolleyes:

[Since452]

Doesn't matter what the clubs say on Friday it'll drag on until Hearts are saved. Looks like Doncaster wants to "overcome any obstacles" to make it happen

[007]

So, if we have an "informal" no vote, does it still have to go to a proposal to get the definitive vote - this is absolutely nuts

I would think if it is no then it will depend on how many said no and what the responses are re how can the objections be overcome. If there are too many saying no and/or the objections are insurmountable then that should be the end of Premiership reconstruction talks. If it looks like any objections could be overcome then it might happen. Though overcoming one club's objection might create an objection for others.

My gut feeling is it won't happen, based on what Dave Cormack has said. He has been pretty firm on it being for 1 or 2 years and switched to backing Budge when her temporary proposal came out.

There must have been a reason to change it to 5 years, presumably trying to find a balance between temporary and permanent when no such balance really exists. It's either permanent or temporary, there isn't a middle ground (unless they made it 50 years and then it automatically switches back 😄).

[Real Emerald]

Doesn't matter what the clubs say on Friday it'll drag on until Hearts are saved. Looks like Doncaster wants to "overcome any obstacles" to make it happen

I don’t think it will drag on past Friday. The season is due to start in about 8 weeks, clubs need clarity to plan and prepare. Any reconstruction would need to be thoroughly costed, agreed and all the details surrounding how they exit a 14 team league worked out and agreed. The voting structure would also need to be agreed as well as all the other implications and then written into the rules. That’s not happening already let alone another few weeks down the line. It’s dead.

[Waxy]

Dave Cormack just said on The Nine that while Aberdeen were pro the 2 year temp deal, the 5 year one proposed today held no interest for them.

Its all just moving the cost of hearts relegation onto another club.
This bribe is criminal.

[we are hibs]

Hibs and most other clubs should make a statement on Friday after the proposals are rejected asking for everyone to move on and focus on preparing for the restart of football. This has already gone on far too long and its really overdue thats its finally binned and clubs are able to concentrate on more pressing issues.

[SMAXXA]

Isn’t the vote for the Prem pretty much irrelevant if indeed the leagues below intend to scupper it as has been reported anyway?

[007]

Hibs and most other clubs should make a statement on Friday after the proposals are rejected asking for everyone to move on and focus on preparing for the restart of football. This has already gone on far too long and its really overdue thats its finally binned and clubs are able to concentrate on more pressing issues.

By asking for the fixtures to be done it seems Celtic just want to move on. They might actually switch to 'no' for the same reason Abeddeen have. Wouldn't be surprised if they ask for them again at the weekend.

[G B Young]

And what happens if the team that gets relegated has a rich backer that wants to bribe the rest of the clubs if they get to stay up?

Have to go through this every time a club with money gets relegated?

Hopefully not. You'd like to think most would accept that being the worst team in the league tends to get you relegated and just get on with it.

[Ronniekirk]

Does it say anywhere that a 14 team premiere league must include Hearts? They are officially a Championship side now since they were officially relegated. If the relegation gets voided would that mean that Celtic wouldn't be champions too????? :confused:

Yes her latest paper makes it clear that injustices must be righted and Hearts back in the top flight


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jacomo]

Doctor Waffle.

Cormack coming out against it pretty much confirms it as a dead duck. If there were any uncertain chairmen considering changing from a 'no' to a 'yes', seeing Cormack now switching to 'no' will help them stick with their 'no'. He's also helped them with a reason why they're objecting.


Yup, Cormack has just been offered his get out clause and he’s taken it.

[Sioux]

Cormack changes his mind every other week it seems. Not to be trusted.

[green day]

Cormack changes his mind every other week it seems. Not to be trusted.

Yes but he has a sparkly white smile and "gives good interview" and hence gets a free ride from the BBC.

Not sure why I am surprised, but the first thing I would have asked him last night was "alright Dave thats smashing - whats the difference for Aberdeen FC between 2 and 5 years temporary reconstruction?" and "why the change of mind?"

Naturally they just moved on to some other low ball questions about how much he liked Jonny Hayes.............:rolleyes:

[The Count]

Do you think some club chairman will think "Well Ann indirectly helped bring £2 million into the game so i feel obliged to help her and Hearts hence i will vote for reconstruction"???

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Do you think some club chairman will think "Well Ann indirectly helped bring £2 million into the game so i feel obliged to help her and Hearts hence i will vote for reconstruction"???

Probably no

But 2020 has been a ducked up year

[PH91]

Do you think some club chairman will think "Well Ann indirectly helped bring £2 million into the game so i feel obliged to help her and Hearts hence i will vote for reconstruction"???

No chance.

£50k and a little emotional blackmail are not going to change the minds of 6 prem teams who knocked this proposal back only a couple of weeks ago. Aberdeen have even stated they have changed their vote to no.

ND is just dotting the i's and crossing the t's here. It will be over tomorrow and we can move on.

[Keith_M]

If there are any clubs that are genuinely interested in re-rorganising the leagues 'for the good of Scottish Football', then why not make a statement that they are prepared to consider the proposal at a more appropriate time but that just now we need to work solely on getting the leagues restarted (fixtures in place, plans for fans returning, etc) as a top priority.

They can then regroup in January, or whenever Football has returned to some semblance of normality, and discuss it under less pressure... and for the long term benefit of Scottish Football as a whole.

[nonshinyfinish]

Yes but he has a sparkly white smile and "gives good interview" and hence gets a free ride from the BBC.

Not sure why I am surprised, but the first thing I would have asked him last night was "alright Dave thats smashing - whats the difference for Aberdeen FC between 2 and 5 years temporary reconstruction?" and "why the change of mind?"

Naturally they just moved on to some other low ball questions about how much he liked Jonny Hayes.............:rolleyes:

Yep, it's astonishing that such an obvious question wasn't put to him. Perhaps as every club stands to lose a bit of prize money if it's split 14 ways, he was ok with two years of that loss but not five?

Either way, don't care as long as he sticks to it this time.

[mjhibby]

Isn’t the vote for the Prem pretty much irrelevant if indeed the leagues below intend to scupper it as has been reported anyway?

I was thinking exactly that. My inkling is Doncaster just wants this to end one way or another so we can plan for Aug 1st and then getting crowds in. If the gorgie mob are so cash rich I’m sure they will skoosh the championship won’t they.

[Spike Mandela]

All this talk of reconstruction for months now, since the second the leagues were suspended and I still haven’t heard one single valid reason why a a 14 team league is an improvement on what we have now.

[theonlywayisup]

Latest from the BBC :rolleyes:



Is reconstruction moving closer?

Kind of. The SPFL has asked clubs in the Premiership and Championship whether they would support a 14-team Premiership for next season, potentially for a fixed period of five years.

They have to submit their feedback by 17:00 BST on Friday and have been encouraged to air any concerns. Despite the collapse of the initial reconstruction taskforce due to insufficient top-flight support, there seems to be an appetite among the 42 clubs to find a solution that suits everyone.

A move to a 14-10-10-10 system appears the most likely, as no club would find themselves in a worse position than they were when football was suspended on 13 March. However, there are still hurdles to overcome.

Some clubs feel that unless the financial situation becomes clearer, it is a pointless discussion. If some clubs can't afford to restart until fans can return to grounds, how can the number of teams in each division be decided? Hearts owner Ann Budge's quest for change still has life, but there is plenty of work to do.

Clubs held divisional meetings this week to discuss the latest issues, from reconstruction to testing and live streaming.

One club official told BBC Scotland "there is a possibility there could be a way forward", while another added: "There is definitely a new found sense of optimism, a sense of progress and a willingness to find a solution that suits everyone."

So as things begin to fall slowly into place, BBC Scotland examines what has been discussed and the remaining stumbling blocks as the game continues to tackle a turbulent time.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52912025

[Waxy]

Latest from the BBC :rolleyes:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52912025

Scottish football, open to bribery?
Or is the article a load of tripe?

[JimboHibs]

Scottish football, open to bribery?
Or is the article a load of tripe?

Both.

Scottish football is desperate.

[neil7908]

Scottish football, open to bribery?
Or is the article a load of tripe?

Really hope this is all hot air but I'm becoming increasingly concerned.

[Since452]

Cormack changes his mind every other week it seems. Not to be trusted.

Likes the sound of his own voice

[weecounty hibby]

All this talk of reconstruction for months now, since the second the leagues were suspended and I still haven’t heard one single valid reason why a a 14 team league is an improvement on what we have now.

That's because it's not. It's a made up pile of bull**** to save a corrupt, badly run club from falling further into debt

[Jim44]

Latest from the BBC :rolleyes:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52912025

“...encouraged to air concerns... “ This worries me. It emphasises the point that Doncaster and pro reconstructionists will gnaw away at every issue and point until every club is browbeaten and wearied into voting for it.

[jacomo]

No chance.

£50k and a little emotional blackmail are not going to change the minds of 6 prem teams who knocked this proposal back only a couple of weeks ago. Aberdeen have even stated they have changed their vote to no.

ND is just dotting the i's and crossing the t's here. It will be over tomorrow and we can move on.


Seems like ND has all but secured a £2m windfall to be shared by all clubs, no strings attached.

I think the clubs will take that and ignore Budge’s pleading. The lower league clubs want permanent reconstruction or nothing.

[MacGruber]

Seems like ND has all but secured a £2m windfall to be shared by all clubs, no strings attached.

I think the clubs will take that and ignore Budge’s pleading. The lower league clubs want permanent reconstruction or nothing.

The string attached is Hearts staying up through reconstruction

[green day]

Latest from the BBC :rolleyes:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52912025

The article was about a number of things - The restart in August, Andersons cash, the virtual tv bit is linked there, and also the potential of reconstruction.

The BBC can pontificate all it wants, but unless 11 clubs vote for it in the Prem it isnt happening full stop.

Aberdeen are against, Hibs, St Mirren, Hamilton, Ross County, Livi etc etc should all be against.

Who is for it in the Prem?

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Seems like ND has all but secured a £2m windfall to be shared by all clubs, no strings attached.

I think the clubs will take that and ignore Budge’s pleading. The lower league clubs want permanent reconstruction or nothing.

Hope it actually is "No Strings Attached"

But what are the odds of 42 clubs all keep their mouths shut if there are provisions to accepting the money?

Maybe SPFL/Doncaster has said to JA/Hearts/Budge that he will "encourage the clubs to consider the reconstruction option but can't make any promises"

He then gets the £2m for the clubs, Heart/Budge can't complain (but oh they will) or sue because he's done all that he can to discuss the issues with the other member clubs but they took a vote and decided against it

Wishful thinking?

[calumhibee1]

So tomorrow there’ll be no vote, feedback will be given saying that they’re not interested and Budge will get yet another to at this?

[StevieC]

Doesn't matter what the clubs say on Friday it'll drag on until Hearts are saved. Looks like Doncaster wants to "overcome any obstacles" to make it happen

Don’t worry too much about what Doncaster wants, remember that Doncaster (and all the SFA bigwigs) wanted to keep Rangers in the top league in 2012.

Have some faith in the football clubs, large and small, to scupper this latest desperate bid for self preservation 😉

[Lee Marvin]

The silence from all clubs this week is what is concerning me - I cannot see anything on the internet about Cormack's interview last night!?! Why is this not being reported.....

If Doncaster wants this, it'll happen. I am still confident Hibs will not be railroaded but can't say the same for the rest of clubs.

The one has changed significantly since the bribe money has been introduced.

[Onion]

Hope it actually is "No Strings Attached"

But what are the odds of 42 clubs all keep their mouths shut if there are provisions to accepting the money?

Maybe SPFL/Doncaster has said to JA/Hearts/Budge that he will "encourage the clubs to consider the reconstruction option but can't make any promises"

He then gets the £2m for the clubs, Heart/Budge can't complain (but oh they will) or sue because he's done all that he can to discuss the issues with the other member clubs but they took a vote and decided against it

Wishful thinking?

Getting totally fed up with this. No strings attached ? SPFL should take the mug's £2M and use to retain the best lawyers his money can buy and tell Budge to bring it on or **** off. Once she blinks, as she will, then distribute it among the lower league clubs to support them (excluding Hearts, of course).

[jacomo]

Yep, it's astonishing that such an obvious question wasn't put to him. Perhaps as every club stands to lose a bit of prize money if it's split 14 ways, he was ok with two years of that loss but not five?

Either way, don't care as long as he sticks to it this time.


Exactly, it really doesn’t matter.

The main point is that Aberdeen have found a way out of backing reconstruction.

[Heisenberg]

Latest from the BBC :rolleyes:



https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52912025

Good old BBC Scotland. Those club sources will most definitely be from Inverness and Hearts. No question. We’ve heard for ages about “positive discussions” and “a sense of optimism” around reconstruction but here we are 7 weeks in and no further forward.

[greenginger]

Did Budge confirm Sky TV are happy with the proposals and would not try to re- negotiate the new media deal. ?

[Brunswickbill]

I reckon that, taking account of all the flak that Doncaster took over the vote to call the leagues, the threat of legal action by Budge and the need to keep Jambo Phil Anthropist sweet, he is bending over backwards to give all clubs a chance to express their views on the proposed restructuring. From what I’ve seen he’s not supporting it and he’s not rubbishing it. When, as I suspect, the restructuring gets rejected On Friday he’ll be able say that that has to be the end of the matter. Budge will be left in a situation where she hasn’t formally put her proposal as a resolution to the SPFL but the issue has fairly and exhaustively rejected by the clubs. She will then have nowhere to go with little likelihood of legal action being successful. Doncaster will then move quickly to issue draft fixtures and will move to get the promised cash from Anderson out to the clubs. Budge can go back to the Hertz fans and tell them “I done my best.” And we’ll all live happily ....... until Hibs lose their first game in the new season.

[PH91]

The string attached is Hearts staying up through reconstruction

It looks to me like the string attached is ND to push the reconstruction harder. I can't see that changing the prem clubs minds though.

There is of course the part about stating the objections to see of they can be worked through but surely if several clubs state they are not interested in a 14 top league then that's it done. Clubs won't allow this to keep dragging on, Celtic are already calling for fixtures to be announced.

[The Count]

Today should be a day of optimism for Scottish football with all the good news yesterday regarding Sky finance and the streaming of games.We should be happy instead one club and one club only are spoiling it all by going on and one about reconstruction.Please before i lose the will to live will Scottish clubs just put this to bed and lets look forward.

[malcolm]

The silence from all clubs this week is what is concerning me - I cannot see anything on the internet about Cormack's interview last night!?! Why is this not being reported.....

If Doncaster wants this, it'll happen. I am still confident Hibs will not be railroaded but can't say the same for the rest of clubs.

The one has changed significantly since the bribe money has been introduced.

He is an employee with no vote, unlike his employers. He can want Christmas next week all he likes and even privately express a view of how he fancies a roast and all the trimmings but he’d need a whole lot of turkeys to vote for it...

[Kojock]

“A move to a 14-10-10-10 system appears the most likely, as no club would find themselves in a worse position than they were when football was suspended on 13 March.“

Except Hibs who dropped a place and lost £130K yet again more poor reporting by the BBC.

[Carheenlea]

Good old BBC Scotland. Those club sources will most definitely be from Inverness and Hearts. No question. We’ve heard for ages about “positive discussions” and “a sense of optimism” around reconstruction but here we are 7 weeks in and no further forward.

The "club sources" is always just made up via the journalists pen to pad out articles. Unless there is a named source its always best to take with a pinch of salt.

[007]

The silence from all clubs this week is what is concerning me - I cannot see anything on the internet about Cormack's interview last night!?! Why is this not being reported.....

If Doncaster wants this, it'll happen. I am still confident Hibs will not be railroaded but can't say the same for the rest of clubs.

The one has changed significantly since the bribe money has been introduced.

You can get it on the BBC iPlayer. He said they'd only just heard that day about the 14 team, 5 year proposal. The zoom caĺl on Monday must have been to gauge what would work best for most rather than putting any specific proposal on the table for discussion.

[Booked4Being-Ugly]

Scottish football would need an independent inquiry if this complete U-turn was to succeed after the intervention of Anderson.

How do we know this was all above board? What has Doncaster received personally to get this through?

Maybe the philanthropist isn’t as squeaky clean as people thought he was.

[MacGruber]

Getting away for a second from the Hearts/Hibs argument - would you want a 14 team league?

(I mean regardless that it is the immorally bankrupt serial lying cheats that have been the ****tiest at playing football in Scotlands top league for a year and a half in spite of outspending all their competitors bar 2 that would be the ones to slink and slither away from the consequences of their own arrogance and ineptitude fuelled failings again)

14 team league sounds rubbish.

Some teams playing 36 some playing 40 - what a lot of nonesense. Have you to pay a season ticket for 40 and only get 36. Pay for 36 and get 4 free.
Splits after 26 games - so lots of teams into the meaningless games in February. European football off the agenda with 3 months of the season to go for clubs that fall into the bottom 8. Top 8 and bottom 6 - really! Won't be any point splashing cash in Jan window for 5 or 6 teams with nothing to chase.
Even if you were in relegation trouble you would have the decision to make whether or not to try and buy in Jan or save your funds to pay the avoid relegation fee instead.

If it goes to 14 teams it is a worse product - for 5 years. Season tickets for most fans of most clubs lose their appeal.
All for a league that everyone knows, fans, pundits, clubs and other nations looking in is corrupt to the point you can bribe in full public view.

Hopefully Hibs have enough principle and moral fibre not to accept the maroon pound bribe for the overall good of Scottish football as a whole.

[007]

Did Budge confirm Sky TV are happy with the proposals and would not try to re- negotiate the new media deal. ?

Yes and I think Doncaster did too. Just if it is a 14 team Premiership, nothing re the detail. Presumably Sky happy as long as they get their 4 Glasgow derbies.

[147lothian]

I always felt AB always knew that legal action never had a leg to stand on but IMO she thought she had to make out she would go down that route if all else failed to keep the roasters in her ranks on-side. A no vote tomorrow ends not only the talk of reconstruction with clubs calling for the fixture list to be released but it will also end the grumblings about legal action against Doncaster and the SPFL.

I am quite optimistic that this is Doncasters way of dotting the i's and crossing the t's before we finally draw a line under the old season and start the new one.

[007]

I always felt AB always knew that legal action never had a leg to stand on but IMO she thought she had to make out she would go down that route if all else failed to keep the roasters in her ranks on-side. A no vote tomorrow ends not only the talk of reconstruction with clubs calling for the fixture list to be released but it will also end the grumblings about legal action against Doncaster and the SPFL.

I am quite optimistic that this is Doncasters way of dotting the i's and crossing the t's before we finally draw a line under the old season and start the new one.

He's certainly not daft. You could tell how sharp he is when he nailed Budge with his email to Sportsound.

[green day]

Regarding people saying the Cormack story not on the website - maybe, but it was the top sports story and they played part of the interview on Radio Scotland this morning.

[Caversham Green]

Getting away for a second from the Hearts/Hibs argument - would you want a 14 team league?

(I mean regardless that it is the immorally bankrupt serial lying cheats that have been the ****tiest at playing football in Scotlands top league for a year and a half in spite of outspending all their competitors bar 2 that would be the ones to slink and slither away from the consequences of their own arrogance and ineptitude fuelled failings again)

14 team league sounds rubbish.

Some teams playing 36 some playing 40 - what a lot of nonesense. Have you to pay a season ticket for 40 and only get 36. Pay for 36 and get 4 free.
Splits after 26 games - so lots of teams into the meaningless games in February. European football off the agenda with 3 months of the season to go for clubs that fall into the bottom 8. Top 8 and bottom 6 - really! Won't be any point splashing cash in Jan window for 5 or 6 teams with nothing to chase.
Even if you were in relegation trouble you would have the decision to make whether or not to try and buy in Jan or save your funds to pay the avoid relegation fee instead.

If it goes to 14 teams it is a worse product - for 5 years. Season tickets for most fans of most clubs lose their appeal.
All for a league that everyone knows, fans, pundits, clubs and other nations looking in is corrupt to the point you can bribe in full public view.

Hopefully Hibs have enough principle and moral fibre not to accept the maroon pound bribe for the overall good of Scottish football as a whole.

My thoughts exactly. I've never been a fan of the split (or promotion play-offs) because to me they feel artificial. However, they work in the current format - with a 12 team league there's the interest in the lead up to the split, then the five game sprint to decide European places, relegation and sometimes the championship itself so nearly every game has some genuine interest attached. Putting another two lower grade teams and making the split earlier in the season at best dilutes that interest and at worst destroys it.

I've always defended Scottish football against the English football snobs down here but right now I have no argument to defend it with. Scottish football really is a laughing stock thanks to the worst team in the Premiership dictating terms.

[mal]

Getting away for a second from the Hearts/Hibs argument - would you want a 14 team league?

(I mean regardless that it is the immorally bankrupt serial lying cheats that have been the ****tiest at playing football in Scotlands top league for a year and a half in spite of outspending all their competitors bar 2 that would be the ones to slink and slither away from the consequences of their own arrogance and ineptitude fuelled failings again)

14 team league sounds rubbish.

Some teams playing 36 some playing 40 - what a lot of nonesense. Have you to pay a season ticket for 40 and only get 36. Pay for 36 and get 4 free.
Splits after 26 games - so lots of teams into the meaningless games in February. European football off the agenda with 3 months of the season to go for clubs that fall into the bottom 8. Top 8 and bottom 6 - really! Won't be any point splashing cash in Jan window for 5 or 6 teams with nothing to chase.
Even if you were in relegation trouble you would have the decision to make whether or not to try and buy in Jan or save your funds to pay the avoid relegation fee instead.

If it goes to 14 teams it is a worse product - for 5 years. Season tickets for most fans of most clubs lose their appeal.
All for a league that everyone knows, fans, pundits, clubs and other nations looking in is corrupt to the point you can bribe in full public view.

Hopefully Hibs have enough principle and moral fibre not to accept the maroon pound bribe for the overall good of Scottish football as a whole.

It's a terrible format for the league and, as I've said on another thread, it significantly disadvantages bottom eight clubs should they get to the latter stages of the Scottish Cup as they have to fit so many more matches into the same space of time than the top six. So that's two competitions significantly affected.

[bingo70]

It's a terrible format for the league and, as I've said on another thread, it significantly disadvantages bottom eight clubs should they get to the latter stages of the Scottish Cup as they have to fit so many more matches into the same space of time than the top six. So that's two competitions significantly affected.

If a bunch of fans on an internet forum can see the disadvantages of it, it’s incredible that professionals who are meant to be doing a proper analysis of it are pushing it so hard.

That ‘proposal’ that budge put out was literally half an hours work with no thought or effort put into it. Why we’re still debating it is beyond me.

Obviously we have a vested interest in seeing it failing but you’ve got to imagine supporters of all clubs are saying the same thing.

[Juniper Greens]

If we are just getting to pick whatever we want, how about a 16 team SPL. 30 games. Top 8 have playoffs home and away 1v8, 2v7 etc to decide champions. Bottom 8 play each other once more in a league format to decide relegation (keeping points from first 30 games).
Would make end of season exciting. Might break the duopoly one year in ten and more often that not, sky will still get it's 4 OF games

[bingo70]

If we are just getting to pick whatever we want, how about a 16 team SPL. 30 games. Top 8 have playoffs home and away 1v8, 2v7 etc to decide champions. Bottom 8 play each other once more in a league format to decide relegation (keeping points from first 30 games).
Would make end of season exciting. Might break the duopoly one year in ten and more often that not, sky will still get it's 4 OF games

I’m not against the idea of league reconstruction if it was something like this but throwing together a 14 team league just to save one club is a nonsense.

[semaj64]

Surely Championship clubs would be looking at a share of the £2M plus having Hearts in their league would increase their revenue for the season (or 2) via Crowds and sponsorship, assume that more of their games would be on Alba. Why would they want reconstruction at this point in time?

[calumhibee1]

If we are just getting to pick whatever we want, how about a 16 team SPL. 30 games. Top 8 have playoffs home and away 1v8, 2v7 etc to decide champions. Bottom 8 play each other once more in a league format to decide relegation (keeping points from first 30 games).
Would make end of season exciting. Might break the duopoly one year in ten and more often that not, sky will still get it's 4 OF games

That actually sounds quite enjoyable. No chance of the OF voting for it though. And to be fair that would be understandable.

[Wakeyhibee]

Getting away for a second from the Hearts/Hibs argument - would you want a 14 team league?

(I mean regardless that it is the immorally bankrupt serial lying cheats that have been the ****tiest at playing football in Scotlands top league for a year and a half in spite of outspending all their competitors bar 2 that would be the ones to slink and slither away from the consequences of their own arrogance and ineptitude fuelled failings again)

14 team league sounds rubbish.

Some teams playing 36 some playing 40 - what a lot of nonesense. Have you to pay a season ticket for 40 and only get 36. Pay for 36 and get 4 free.
Splits after 26 games - so lots of teams into the meaningless games in February. European football off the agenda with 3 months of the season to go for clubs that fall into the bottom 8. Top 8 and bottom 6 - really! Won't be any point splashing cash in Jan window for 5 or 6 teams with nothing to chase.
Even if you were in relegation trouble you would have the decision to make whether or not to try and buy in Jan or save your funds to pay the avoid relegation fee instead.

If it goes to 14 teams it is a worse product - for 5 years. Season tickets for most fans of most clubs lose their appeal.
All for a league that everyone knows, fans, pundits, clubs and other nations looking in is corrupt to the point you can bribe in full public view.

Hopefully Hibs have enough principle and moral fibre not to accept the maroon pound bribe for the overall good of Scottish football as a whole.

If we're gonna have a small league, then the current set is the best out of the 3 versions we"ve tried to date.

14 leaves the season dead far too early for some, and creates fixture headaches in certain circumstances.

[FilipinoHibs]

One more sleep and one last flush and the big jobby will be gone.

[Joe6-2]

https://bbc.in/3eQtg7j

5 year reconstruction on the table from Doncaster.

Budge only bothered about the Premiership and happy to let the lower leagues do what they please.

This is a f****** joke, and why would Aberdeen want two years and not five?
A total carve up, can only hope the clubs bin this, and Doncaster needs held to account

[jacomo]

The "club sources" is always just made up via the journalists pen to pad out articles. Unless there is a named source its always best to take with a pinch of salt.


Personally I think Budge has been feeding ‘off the record’ quotes to BBC Scotland and DR on a near-daily basis.

She’s almost certainly responsible for the quotes in the latest story.

What amazes me is that she doesn’t seem to realise that other club chairmen know what she’s up to. Some of the on record criticism of her has been pretty excruciating and humiliating - other chairmen are openly questioning her integrity and motives.

I hope she stops before it gets worse.

[Phil MaGlass]

Personally I think Budge has been feeding ‘off the record’ quotes to BBC Scotland and DR on a near-daily basis.

She’s almost certainly responsible for the quotes in the latest story.

What amazes me is that she doesn’t seem to realise that other club chairmen know what she’s up to. Some of the on record criticism of her has been pretty excruciating and humiliating - other chairmen are openly questioning her integrity and motives.

I hope she stops before it gets worse.

No let her keep going, its goin tae be great entertainment value when it all comes crashin doon the morn.

[Joe6-2]

It looks to me like the string attached is ND to push the reconstruction harder. I can't see that changing the prem clubs minds though.

There is of course the part about stating the objections to see of they can be worked through but surely if several clubs state they are not interested in a 14 top league then that's it done. Clubs won't allow this to keep dragging on, Celtic are already calling for fixtures to be announced.

So they want to ‘work through’ objections? Why isn’t yes or no good enough? Sounds like Doncaster wants this pushed through

[JimBHibees]

Cormack changes his mind every other week it seems. Not to be trusted.

Agree likes the attention without really saying too much but changes with wind. He was saying his players weren't able to furlough then they were.

[JimBHibees]

If there are any clubs that are genuinely interested in re-rorganising the leagues 'for the good of Scottish Football', then why not make a statement that they are prepared to consider the proposal at a more appropriate time but that just now we need to work solely on getting the leagues restarted (fixtures in place, plans for fans returning, etc) as a top priority.

They can then regroup in January, or whenever Football has returned to some semblance of normality, and discuss it under less pressure... and for the long term benefit of Scottish Football as a whole.

Seems sensible probably why it won't happen. :greengrin

[jacomo]

This is a f****** joke, and why would Aberdeen want two years and not five?
A total carve up, can only hope the clubs bin this, and Doncaster needs held to account


It’s great.

Under the pretence of doing everything he can to support Budge, ND has proposed a plan that literally no one except Hearts and ICT can support.

Temporary reconstruction - won’t be backed by the clubs that want permanent change.

5 years - too long for those minded to back a temporary reconstruction.

Ann Budge has made her plan even less popular!