NO to reconstruction

[HibbySpurs]

Perhaps this has already been suggested so apologies if repeating something.

Is it possible that the SPFL board have received legal advice that having said reconstruction would be seriously considered in the resolution, for the premiership clubs to have just dismissed it at their meeting with no vote by them or the other leagues it perhaps leaves a small legal route open to those feeling hard done by?

Has the SPFL board possibly been advised that to close that door they need to allow a proposal to be put forward, considered and voted upon, if that happens and the proposal is voted down by the members then it ends the realistic prospect of a successful legal challenge.

Could be a simple box ticking exercise?

[Waxy]

The split after 26 games and not 33 is just crap. We are due to finish 7th this season and in that scenario we would have 14 games (7 home games) with absolutely nothing to play for as safe from relegation but can’t get into top 6. Within a normal calendar year the a lot would be late January not early April. It’s just a crap proposal.

Ron and Leanne would have to consider the real possibility of them continuing to outbid us for players and it not impossible we could find ourselves in the bottom 3 after two season. Imagine the irony. This is why Ross County, st Mirren, Hamilton and evening Motherwell and Livi won’t go for it.

I think the suggestion Budge has told the SPFL and top clubs they will go to the wall when relegated feels like the most likely scenario.

Benny Factor and the establishment brigade will stop them going to the wall.They’re just chancing it while they can.

[FilipinoHibs]

If she has said that this will happen then they are not self sufficient and should then be told to take what punishment is coming their way.

The SPFL cannot and should not step in and neither should the other associated members.

If true then the SPFL set a dangerous precedence and would allow clubs to do and spend what they want knowing they could just do a Hearts.

This is however all speculation and maybe be codswallop!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

With 14 teams you could play 3 rounds and then split 7/7. Giving 45 games. Relegate 2 have 2 in play offs for 2 remaining places Teams might accept that for one season. Not saying I would want that. But think outside old firm and Aberdeen, others would vote against as there is an increased probability of relegation.

[Waxy]

If ever there was a team not worth saving its hearts.
Why?

[Since452]

**** off with another vote. It's been voted on. **** Hearts Just get doon.

[007]

With 14 teams you could play 3 rounds and then split 7/7. Giving 45 games. Relegate 2 have 2 in play offs for 2 remaining places Teams might accept that for one season. Not saying I would want that. But think outside old firm and Aberdeen, others would vote against as there is an increased probability of relegation.

Are you serious? 45 games? Plus, having 1 team finish all their matches before everyone else is just asking for trouble. Sporting integrity would go out the window when Rangers, Hearts and Inverness could conspire to get the result they need. For an example, see here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gij%C3%B3n

[The 90+2]

Perhaps this has already been suggested so apologies if repeating something.

Is it possible that the SPFL board have received legal advice that having said reconstruction would be seriously considered in the resolution, for the premiership clubs to have just dismissed it at their meeting with no vote by them or the other leagues it perhaps leaves a small legal route open to those feeling hard done by?

Has the SPFL board possibly been advised that to close that door they need to allow a proposal to be put forward, considered and voted upon, if that happens and the proposal is voted down by the members then it ends the realistic prospect of a successful legal challenge.

Could be a simple box ticking exercise?

That’s what I was getting at. You put it more eloquently 👍

[we are hibs]

Hearts' chief*Ann Budge*has been warned not to light the fuse under a new civil war in Scottish footblall.

Budge will submit a last ditch plea for league reconstruction in her desperate bid to keep her club in the Premiership - but*Mail Sport*understands the move is doomed to fail.

In a bizarre new Votergate twist, the Tynecastle owner was given consent on Friday to put forward her proposal for a 14-team top-flight.

She is racing against time to table it at the SPFL board meeting at 10am on Monday – when they’re expected to declare*Celticchamps and relegate the Jambos.

[BH Hibs]

Are you serious? 45 games? Plus, having 1 team finish all their matches before everyone else is just asking for trouble. Sporting integrity would go out the window when Rangers, Hearts and Inverness could conspire to get the result they need. For an example, see here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gij%C3%B3n

After all these years that's the first I noticed that Bob Valentine refereed that match.

[BILLYHIBS]

As another poster said “ Hearts are the jobby that will not flush”

Send them doon !

[hfc rd]

This is getting extremely tedious now.

[tonyrougier123]

Thought doncaster said last week clubs paved the way with a clear mandate??

Did that mean covering old ground?,I thought the debate around reconstruction was done with?!

Rangers are right imo get shot of these imposters running the show.might not be corrupt but definitely more than a hint of incompetence.

[Peevemor]

Thought doncaster said last week clubs paved the way with a clear mandate??

Did that mean covering old ground?,I thought the debate around reconstruction was done with?!

Rangers are right imo get shot of these imposters running the show.might not be corrupt but definitely more than a hint of incompetence.What's Doncaster done wrong?

It's the clubs who are dragging things out.

[northgreen24]

I know it won’t be popular but if anything comes out last minute I will be cancelling my renewal, hearts have been the worst team by far and this would stink of just keeping them up, if it was Hamilton or st Mirren they would just need to suck it up but because it’s them everything possible is being done, sorry but just not fair so why should I bother

[CraigHibee]

I want hearts to go down the pan like the **** show that they are.

Horrible club, minging fans and a deluded owner that somehow believes her *****y team deserve to be saved despite being glued to the bottom of the table

**** hearts

[FilipinoHibs]

Are you serious? 45 games? Plus, having 1 team finish all their matches before everyone else is just asking for trouble. Sporting integrity would go out the window when Rangers, Hearts and Inverness could conspire to get the result they need. For an example, see here:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disgrace_of_Gij%C3%B3n

Do you actually read posts on here or do you just fire off? I said I don't want it and outside the the old firm and Aberdeen, clubs would vote against it. Any proposal from Budge has to save the 4 old firm games for Sky. This or a 6/8 split with three rounds of games before the split would do that. Looks like the big three clubs would take the extra games as a one off to save Hearts. Budge needs to put something like this forward to have any chance of getting reconstruction through. If she gets open verbal backing from the big three, other clubs may crumble. Not wanting this to happen but be prepared.

[Wakeyhibee]

Do you actually read posts on here or do you just fire off? I said I don't want it and outside the the old firm and Aberdeen, clubs would vote against it. Any proposal from Budge has to save the 4 old firm games for Sky. This or a 6/8 split with three rounds of games before the split would do that. Looks like the big three clubs would take the extra games as a one off to save Hearts. Budge needs to put something like this forward to have any chance of getting reconstruction through. If she gets open verbal backing from the big three, other clubs may crumble. Not wanting this to happen but be prepared.

Here's a question, Can they call the league and carry on with reconstruction discussions? UEFA will be happy and they get off the hook for a short time longer after next Friday. I hope not but nothing surprises me.

If that is the case she's got to get something past the Premier on Monday. It's a big ask, for 14 teams and saving the 4 OF TV games she can only go 6/8 or 8/6 split. 7/7 is a big headache for crucial games and the end of the campaign

8/6 split means more games for the top teams hampering Europe and an already congested fixture calendar. She would also have to convince 10 or so clubs to possibly or likely lose 4 games against the OF

6/8 is worse because that adds killing the season early for 2 more clubs. It could exclude clubs from competing for Europe when they're still in touch in Feb.

Let's say one of those gets past on Monday. 14-14-14 has not gone down well with Clyde and others, you're effectively relegating 4 teams down to the bottom, and preventing any promotion form L2 so there's 5 votes lost there out of 20 when you need 15. 14-14-16 has even less chance with the voting requirements and loses none of the above problems and adds problem to revert back, relegating 2 (or more teams) to the LL HL.

And all this is meant to be temporary for one season!!!

And that M'lud is my case for the prosecution and I ask the jury to find the accused "relegated".

[Kojock]

Can anyone explain how a 14 team SPL would work bearing in mind we have no idea when the season will begin. We also have the Euros next summer so the season can’t be extended. Throw in the fact Sky want 4 bigot fests to screen, the addition of two more teams just can’t work. Or am I missing something.

[FilipinoHibs]

Here's a question, Can they call the league and carry on with reconstruction discussions? UEFA will be happy and they get off the hook for a short time longer after next Friday. I hope not but nothing surprises me.

If that is the case she's got to get something past the Premier on Monday. It's a big ask, for 14 teams and saving the 4 OF TV games she can only go 6/8 or 8/6 split. 7/7 is a big headache for crucial games and the end of the campaign

8/6 split means more games for the top teams hampering Europe and an already congested fixture calendar. She would also have to convince 10 or so clubs to possibly or likely lose 4 games against the OF

6/8 is worse because that adds killing the season early for 2 more clubs. It could exclude clubs from competing for Europe when they're still in touch in Feb.

Let's say one of those gets past on Monday. 14-14-14 has not gone down well with Clyde and others, you're effectively relegating 4 teams down to the bottom, and preventing any promotion form L2 so there's 5 votes lost there out of 20 when you need 15. 14-14-16 has even less chance with the voting requirements and loses none of the above problems and adds problem to revert back, relegating 2 (or more teams) to the LL HL.

And all this is meant to be temporary for one season!!!

And that M'lud is my case for the prosecution and I ask the jury to find the accused "relegated".



6/8 and bottom two automatically relegated and next two in sudden death play iff against 2 from championship would make it meaning full for all in bottom 8. But as I said outside big 3 this us unlikely to fly as teams have a higher risk of being relegated. But Budge has been given this lifeline for a reason. It could be threat if clubs going bust or placate all thouse being relegated / missing out on play offs. The big 3 may pressure the others in the leagues to go with this reconstruction for the good of the game in Scotland. We will have to wait and see if Budge can cobble a plan together with the help of the big 3.

[Wakeyhibee]

6/8 and bottom two automatically relegated and next two in sudden death play iff against 2 from championship would make it meaning full for all in bottom 8. But as I said outside big 3 this us unlikely to fly as teams have a higher risk of being relegated. But Budge has been given this lifeline for a reason. It could be threat if clubs going bust or placate all thouse being relegated / missing out on play offs. The big 3 may pressure the others in the leagues to go with this reconstruction for the good of the game in Scotland. We will have to wait and see if Budge can cobble a plan together with the help of the big 3.

Without any extra funds being allocated it's a lot of clubs to ask to accept 4 less OF games.

I'm not so sure the OF especially are bothered so long as they keep 4 derbies. They can vote for and say "it wasn't us" rather than actively pushing it. I dont see Aberdeen pushing for it either as it's "as is" or lose (no win) for them.

[Wakeyhibee]

Can anyone explain how a 14 team SPL would work bearing in mind we have no idea when the season will begin. We also have the Euros next summer so the season can’t be extended. Throw in the fact Sky want 4 bigot fests to screen, the addition of two more teams just can’t work. Or am I missing something.

Be no more or about same games as what we have now if you split after the 1st two rounds of games.

So long as OF get top6 by then, it's no change from now regarding 4 bigot fests or the number of games compared to what we have now.

I'm not agreeing with it btw just in answer to your question.

[Spike Mandela]

Hearts' chief*Ann Budge*has been warned not to light the fuse under a new civil war in Scottish footblall.

Budge will submit a last ditch plea for league reconstruction in her desperate bid to keep her club in the Premiership - but*Mail Sport*understands the move is doomed to fail.

In a bizarre new Votergate twist, the Tynecastle owner was given consent on Friday to put forward her proposal for a 14-team top-flight.

She is racing against time to table it at the SPFL board meeting at 10am on Monday – when they’re expected to declare*Celticchamps and relegate the Jambos.

She will be spending this weekend, not preparing a presentation but no doubt phoning around, pleading, arm twisting and issuing veiled threats. I hope many people decide to record their calls.

[Spike Mandela]

Be no more or about same games as what we have now if you split after the 1st two rounds of games.

So long as OF get top6 by then, it's no change from now regarding 4 bigot fests or the number of games compared to what we have now.

I'm not agreeing with it btw just in answer to your question.

To be more precise it’s 36 games for the top 6 but 40 games for the bottom 8.

The split would occur around early February instead of April so for the last 4 months of the season you would have no chance of Europe if you are in 7th at that point. 14 essentially meaningless games for the bottom 8 unless you are in the relegation battle.

[brog]

Perhaps this has already been suggested so apologies if repeating something.

Is it possible that the SPFL board have received legal advice that having said reconstruction would be seriously considered in the resolution, for the premiership clubs to have just dismissed it at their meeting with no vote by them or the other leagues it perhaps leaves a small legal route open to those feeling hard done by?

Has the SPFL board possibly been advised that to close that door they need to allow a proposal to be put forward, considered and voted upon, if that happens and the proposal is voted down by the members then it ends the realistic prospect of a successful legal challenge.

Could be a simple box ticking exercise?

That I think, & sincerely hope, is a likely scenario.

[greenpaper55]

Having calmed down and read the papers this morning it seems like Budge will never get the 11-1 majority she needs to carry the day.

[coldingham hibs]

During his interview on PLZ soccer Dave McKinnon (Morton) reckoned the reconstruction task force were close to agreement on the 14-14-14 before it suddenly crashed. He didn’t know how this happened but was confident they could get the reconstruction through.

Budge clearly thinks this is worth a go. Based on what McKinnon said I wouldn’t be surprised if it gets the go ahead.

Sorry if this has been mentioned.

[chippy]

Here's a question, Can they call the league and carry on with reconstruction discussions? UEFA will be happy and they get off the hook for a short time longer after next Friday. I hope not but nothing surprises me.

If that is the case she's got to get something past the Premier on Monday. It's a big ask, for 14 teams and saving the 4 OF TV games she can only go 6/8 or 8/6 split. 7/7 is a big headache for crucial games and the end of the campaign

8/6 split means more games for the top teams hampering Europe and an already congested fixture calendar. She would also have to convince 10 or so clubs to possibly or likely lose 4 games against the OF

6/8 is worse because that adds killing the season early for 2 more clubs. It could exclude clubs from competing for Europe when they're still in touch in Feb.

Let's say one of those gets past on Monday. 14-14-14 has not gone down well with Clyde and others, you're effectively relegating 4 teams down to the bottom, and preventing any promotion form L2 so there's 5 votes lost there out of 20 when you need 15. 14-14-16 has even less chance with the voting requirements and loses none of the above problems and adds problem to revert back, relegating 2 (or more teams) to the LL HL.

And all this is meant to be temporary for one season!!!

And that M'lud is my case for the prosecution and I ask the jury to find the accused "relegated".

ok Keir, but I say an 8/6 split in a 14 league will give you 2 and probably 4 Edinburgh derbies plus exciting challenges for the 5th Euro place. I think we’re forgetting that the whole Sky deal will be renegotiated due to likelihood of closed door games for all or part of season

[Caversham Green]

I haven't read the whole thread so this has maybe already been mentioned, but a 14-14-14 reconstruction can't have much attraction for the mid-table clubs in the Championship and League 1.

In the Championship they'd be swapping games against Hearts and Caley for Thistle, Falkirk, Airdrie and Montrose - for all their failings 'The Famous' will attract bigger crowds. They also get fewer home games if they end up in the top six with a 6/8 split.

In League 1 the clubs would find themselves playing 10 fourth-grade sides and the three lowest third-grade sides rather than 9 other third-grade sides including Partick who must be a reasonable attraction at that level. It's effectively a relegation. Cove would also effectively be denied their promotion.

The bottom two leagues might just have enough votes to carry it but I can't see any of the seven affected Championship clubs voting it through.

Edit: I see Wakeyhibee has already made one of my points on this very page.

[chippy]

To be more precise it’s 36 games for the top 6 but 40 games for the bottom 8.

The split would occur around early February instead of April so for the last 4 months of the season you would have no chance of Europe if you are in 7th at that point. 14 essentially meaningless games for the bottom 8 unless you are in the relegation battle.

The 1st and possibly the 2nd club in the bottom 8 could easily be involved in a play off with clubs finishing 4 or 5 or 6 in the Top 6 for 1 or 2 Euro places depending on who wins the cup.

[green day]

During his interview on PLZ soccer Dave McKinnon (Morton) reckoned the reconstruction task force were close to agreement on the 14-14-14 before it suddenly crashed. He didn’t know how this happened but was confident they could get the reconstruction through.

Budge clearly thinks this is worth a go. Based on what McKinnon said I wouldn’t be surprised if it gets the go ahead.

Sorry if this has been mentioned.

It crashed because it was a permanent change and the Premiership clubs didnt want it.

The new proposal is for temporary change (even though Budge will also have to table a perm option) but the fly in that ointment is that the lower league clubs are not interested in temporary change.

The last time the lower league clubs pointed the finger at the Premiership, who knows who will be blamed this time !!

Finally, this change also means that some clubs currently safe in League 1 would be thrown into the new "bottom division".

This temporary change seems to have so many holes it is doomed to failure.

Only permanent change will gain enough support, but it seems that is already off the table.

Its a shambles and seems designed as a last throw of the dice for Budge.

[jacomo]

Can anyone explain how a 14 team SPL would work bearing in mind we have no idea when the season will begin. We also have the Euros next summer so the season can’t be extended. Throw in the fact Sky want 4 bigot fests to screen, the addition of two more teams just can’t work. Or am I missing something.


It’s very simple and very clear and all laid out in the proposal presented by Budge last week.

Oh wait, she didnt present a proposal because her task force could not agree on one.

[GreenCastle]

It’s just not happening.

11-1 vote - Hibs plus 1 other would definitely block it.

I’ve said before the power is all with top league and there is no loyalty in football. Clubs want the ££.

Hearts will be RELEGATED next week.

[stantonhibby]

Having calmed down and read the papers this morning it seems like Budge will never get the 11-1 majority she needs to carry the day.

Is it not only 9 Premiership vote for reqd - since no additional teams are being added to the structure?

[Heisenberg]

Is it not only 9 Premiership vote for reqd - since no additional teams are being added to the structure?

If the financial distribution changes its 11-1.

[Not In The Know]

The split after 26 games and not 33 is just crap. We are due to finish 7th this season and in that scenario we would have 14 games (7 home games) with absolutely nothing to play for as safe from relegation but can’t get into top 6. Within a normal calendar year the a lot would be late January not early April. It’s just a crap proposal.

Ron and Leanne would have to consider the real possibility of them continuing to outbid us for players and it not impossible we could find ourselves in the bottom 3 after two season. Imagine the irony. This is why Ross County, st Mirren, Hamilton and evening Motherwell and Livi won’t go for it.

I think the suggestion Budge has told the SPFL and top clubs they will go to the wall when relegated feels like the most likely scenario.

yep as much as we hate to admit it. While not likely this is a real possibility. Imagine we got relegated for finishing 3rd bottom in a 14 team league in 2 years time.

With hearts down next season we really could move ahead them on and off the pitch. This is the least they deserve for the 70 odd million they stole and Charities and small businesses they ripped off

[Kojock]

Be no more or about same games as what we have now if you split after the 1st two rounds of games.

So long as OF get top6 by then, it's no change from now regarding 4 bigot fests or the number of games compared to what we have now.

I'm not agreeing with it btw just in answer to your question.

So play each other twice 2 x 13 = 26. Split 6/8 then play each other another twice 2 x 5 = 10 or 2 x 7 = 14. Top half play 36 bottom half play 40 then play offs. Playing the same 5 or 7 teams twice in such a short space of time is even worse than what we have now. I hope the clubs see sense and boot this idea into touch.

[LeithMike]

At least this puts the nail in the coffin that Budge is some kind of altruistic demigod that BBC Sportsound would have us believe. We were told by Budge that she wanted to end clubs playing each other 4 times a season for the good of Scottish football (despite the impact on the Sky contract) so if she's settling on a slightly expanded version of what we have now, surely this means that self-interest is ruling her actions - despite her protestations.

Fancy asking that Tom?

PS - I'd prob favour a bigger league playing each other less. Although there might end up more meaningless games, I think itd be easier for a non-old firm to challenge for the title and with relegation being less of a threat it would mean teams could try and play more expansively and bring through younger players which can only better Scottish football as a whole. The significant threat of relegation has meant that teams have been far too eager to appoint managers who are can steer a team clear of relegation by playing long ball and signing "experienced pros".

Sent from my SM-N960F using Tapatalk

[Wakeyhibee]

ok Keir, but I say an 8/6 split in a 14 league will give you 2 and probably 4 Edinburgh derbies plus exciting challenges for the 5th Euro place. I think we’re forgetting that the whole Sky deal will be renegotiated due to likelihood of closed door games for all or part of season

Good call!! I'm in construction as it happens :greengrin

I was arguing out the challenge Queen Anne's got not mine so sorry if that wasnt clear from my post.

And i'm kinda banking on no derbies next season :greengrin

[Spike Mandela]

The 1st and possibly the 2nd club in the bottom 8 could easily be involved in a play off with clubs finishing 4 or 5 or 6 in the Top 6 for 1 or 2 Euro places depending on who wins the cup.

So you finish 4th playing the top teams 4 times then play off against a team that has played 4 more games than you and has only played the top teams twice?

Sorry but that’s a dog’s dinner. Not a realistic proposition.

[Wakeyhibee]

So play each other twice 2 x 13 = 26. Split 6/8 then play each other another twice 2 x 5 = 10 or 2 x 7 = 14. Top half play 36 bottom half play 40 then play offs. Playing the same 5 or 7 teams twice in such a short space of time is even worse than what we have now. I hope the clubs see sense and boot this idea into touch.

Yeah, split could be 6/8, 7/7, 8/6 so 36/38/40 games.

Again not my view or preference just the options I've seen banded about.

With 6/8 he worse part for me is a dead season at Feb if you're in 7th/8th.

[Kojock]

Yeah, split could be 6/8, 7/7, 8/6 so 36/38/40 games.

Again not my view or preference just the options I've seen banded about.

With 6/8 he worse part for me is a dead season at Feb if you're in 7th/8th.

The current set up might not be great but it’s certainly a lot better than anything being proposed just now.

[Sammy7nil]

She will be spending this weekend, not preparing a presentation but no doubt phoning around, pleading, arm twisting and issuing veiled threats. I hope many people decide to record their calls.

She is reading PowerPoint for dummies as we speak.

[we are hibs]

It’s just not happening.

11-1 vote - Hibs plus 1 other would definitely block it.

I’ve said before the power is all with top league and there is no loyalty in football. Clubs want the ££.

Hearts will be RELEGATED next week.

Dundee utd were said to be against any reconstruction either permanent or temporary

[MacGruber]

Hearts stance is that they cannot be relegated because although in the relegation place position cannot be called final as games to play.
Who do Hearts propose come up? Dundee Utd are in promotion place and Inverness 2nd but positions cannot be final as games to play.
League needs extended for no relegation and needs to incorporate every club that could potentially have got enough points to finish in a play off position - and same throughout the leagues as Hearts are interested in fairness for all and not in this for themselves...
As relegation is not possible if the seasons get called early a second wave and similar situation needs to see the same happen next year. If Hearts finish 7th next year and Hamilton finish bottom Hearts will be hell bent on court if anyone suggests Hamilton go down. Hearts have been championing league reconstruction for years.

I think Hearts are right and next years leagues system should be 19-17-6

Next again season might be 23-9-10

- just go down already you cheating arrogant horrible little *****s. Somebody needs to and Hearts have proven to be the ****tiest team in the league on and off the field.

[Wakeyhibee]

The current set up might not be great but it’s certainly a lot better than anything being proposed just now.

Agree and as someone else has said on here. This is the worst time to be making these changes.

I can't see anything getting through tbh

[Ozyhibby]

I haven't read the whole thread so this has maybe already been mentioned, but a 14-14-14 reconstruction can't have much attraction for the mid-table clubs in the Championship and League 1.

In the Championship they'd be swapping games against Hearts and Caley for Thistle, Falkirk, Airdrie and Montrose - for all their failings 'The Famous' will attract bigger crowds. They also get fewer home games if they end up in the top six with a 6/8 split.

In League 1 the clubs would find themselves playing 10 fourth-grade sides and the three lowest third-grade sides rather than 9 other third-grade sides including Partick who must be a reasonable attraction at that level. It's effectively a relegation. Cove would also effectively be denied their promotion.

The bottom two leagues might just have enough votes to carry it but I can't see any of the seven affected Championship clubs voting it through.

Edit: I see Wakeyhibee has already made one of my points on this very page.

The championship would also have a smaller prize pot but have two extra teams in it. Why would they vote for that?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

The 1st and possibly the 2nd club in the bottom 8 could easily be involved in a play off with clubs finishing 4 or 5 or 6 in the Top 6 for 1 or 2 Euro places depending on who wins the cup.

That’s a lot of games on top of the 40 normal season games. Getting games played is problematic these days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Billy Whizz]

That’s a lot of games on top of the 40 normal season games. Getting games played is problematic these days.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So how many games in 14 team league, dependant on where they make the split, top 6/8

[Ozyhibby]

So how many games in 14 team league, dependant on where they make the split, top 6/8

If it’s a 6/8 split then top 6 have 38 games and a bottom 8 have 40. If you add a play off structure then it’s a lot of games.


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[BoomtownHibees]

If it’s a 6/8 split then top 6 have 38 games and a bottom 8 have 40. If you add a play off structure then it’s a lot of games.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Would only be 36 games for the top 6 in a 6/8 split

[Eyrie]

Would only be 36 games for the top 6 in a 6/8 split

But as Caversham has pointed out that will apply in all three divisions of 14.

That means that the top six clubs in divisions two and three will each have two fewer home games which will hit them financially. That could be overcome by weighting the prize money to favour the top six but any change in the financial distribution requires an 11-1 vote by the current Premiership, rendering it a non-starter.

[Waxy]

Hearts stance is that they cannot be relegated because although in the relegation place position cannot be called final as games to play.
Who do Hearts propose come up? Dundee Utd are in promotion place and Inverness 2nd but positions cannot be final as games to play.
League needs extended for no relegation and needs to incorporate every club that could potentially have got enough points to finish in a play off position - and same throughout the leagues as Hearts are interested in fairness for all and not in this for themselves...
As relegation is not possible if the seasons get called early a second wave and similar situation needs to see the same happen next year. If Hearts finish 7th next year and Hamilton finish bottom Hearts will be hell bent on court if anyone suggests Hamilton go down. Hearts have been championing league reconstruction for years.

I think Hearts are right and next years leagues system should be 19-17-6

Next again season might be 23-9-10

- just go down already you cheating arrogant horrible little *****s. Somebody needs to and Hearts have proven to be the ****tiest team in the league on and off the field.
There is no games to play though. Its deemed that every club has played their games and point awarded as average points. Why dont they listen?

[theonlywayisup]

Posted this on the "Generic Hearts" thread, but more relevant on this one.

For those who are not willing to click on the link below, Mail Sport understands the move is doomed to fail.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/...-time-22039234

Also the quote from the Stenhousemuir Chairman, McMenemy who can’t believe reconstruction talks are back on the agenda – and says Budge must get the proposal out quickly to avoid more weeks of in-fighting. McMenemy said: “When I heard, it was a bit of surprise, a feeling of deja vu.

“The message from the SPFL EGM was to draw a line under the last few weeks after Votegate – Dundee’s magic vote – and reconstruction talks that completely fell apart, come together and move on.

“Now, one of the big divisive issues is back again.

“If they’ve got something they want us to discuss, they have to let us know as soon as possible to avoid six more weeks of civil war.”

[Heisenberg]

At least it doesn’t look like it’ll drag on. Monday deadline and if it doesn’t get the support required in the Premiership hopefully that’s the end of it (and them).

[speedy_gonzales]

I know it won’t be popular but if anything comes out last minute I will be cancelling my renewal, hearts have been the worst team by far and this would stink of just keeping them up, if it was Hamilton or st Mirren they would just need to suck it up but because it’s them everything possible is being done, sorry but just not fair so why should I bother

Whilst I get the frustration, there's no way I'd be punishing our club.
Hearts are drowning, just now they're thrashing about in the water in a vain attempt to stay afloat or create enough commotion in the hope that someone throws them a lifeline.
Hopefully, they'll expend their energy soon and accept fate, take one last breath and descend down in to the deep!

[leggeto]

I think the current 12 set up is the best for all clubs, you just have to remember the 5-5 game with rangers when there was a battle for 2nd and European football and a battle for avoiding relegation and playoffs.

[Irish_Steve]

I actually think it`s the financial institutions that are behind reconstruction talks. They are worried that there will be another banking crisis if the "maroon poond" is not being spent.....

[jacomo]

At least it doesn’t look like it’ll drag on. Monday deadline and if it doesn’t get the support required in the Premiership hopefully that’s the end of it (and them).


Good, because I think Budges strategy is to bore everyone to death and then parade their ‘Not relegated trophy’.

[Dr What If?]

Not saying our aesthetically challenged neighbours are evil....but I've seen all this 'reconstruction' talk as nothing more than a stalling tactic. They don't want reconstruction, that is obvious by the dogs dinner of proposals that have come out....temporary 14 team league just to save them? No club is going to agree to that! No, the longer we go on without calling the league, the stronger the chance a Hamilton or St Mirren will buckle under the financial uncertainty, call in the administrators and get handed a 15 point penalty......boom! the sister botherers jump off the bottom and legitimately avoid the drop. That theory though must be wrong, that would be horrendously unethical and unbefitting behaviour for such a prestigious establishment club.

[Joe6-2]

Not saying our aesthetically challenged neighbours are evil....but I've seen all this 'reconstruction' talk as nothing more than a stalling tactic. They don't want reconstruction, that is obvious by the dogs dinner of proposals that have come out....temporary 14 team league just to save them? No club is going to agree to that! No, the longer we go on without calling the league, the stronger the chance a Hamilton or St Mirren will buckle under the financial uncertainty, call in the administrators and get handed a 15 point penalty......boom! the sister botherers jump off the bottom and legitimately avoid the drop. That theory though must be wrong, that would be horrendously unethical and unbefitting behaviour for such a prestigious establishment club.

Probably nail on the head!

[Greenworld]

Willie miller made a great point that any temp arrangement would mean potentially 4 teams could be expelled or relegated when the leagues change bach who on earth would vote for that . Hearts finish 5th bottom that season you've seen the movie no chance

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[Greenworld]

Didn’t say that once Andy but when it comes to they Kanutes then they get away with it.

Why wouldn’t they? If hearts win a court case the clubs will lose money. That’s a fact.
Not saying our aesthetically challenged neighbours are evil....but I've seen all this 'reconstruction' talk as nothing more than a stalling tactic. They don't want reconstruction, that is obvious by the dogs dinner of proposals that have come out....temporary 14 team league just to save them? No club is going to agree to that! No, the longer we go on without calling the league, the stronger the chance a Hamilton or St Mirren will buckle under the financial uncertainty, call in the administrators and get handed a 15 point penalty......boom! the sister botherers jump off the bottom and legitimately avoid the drop. That theory though must be wrong, that would be horrendously unethical and unbefitting behaviour for such a prestigious establishment club.The thing is hamilton and st mirren are roch solid financially . They are well run clubs .

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[Irish_Steve]

Not saying our aesthetically challenged neighbours are evil....but I've seen all this 'reconstruction' talk as nothing more than a stalling tactic. They don't want reconstruction, that is obvious by the dogs dinner of proposals that have come out....temporary 14 team league just to save them? No club is going to agree to that! No, the longer we go on without calling the league, the stronger the chance a Hamilton or St Mirren will buckle under the financial uncertainty, call in the administrators and get handed a 15 point penalty......boom! the sister botherers jump off the bottom and legitimately avoid the drop. That theory though must be wrong, that would be horrendously unethical and unbefitting behaviour for such a prestigious establishment club.

It's been pointed out before bit no team will have points deducted should they go into administration during this covid period. Not quite sure what happens after the league is called, perhaps any team would start the Premiership on minus points but by that stage, the maroon munters would be in a different (lower) league

[chippy]

yep as much as we hate to admit it. While not likely this is a real possibility. Imagine we got relegated for finishing 3rd bottom in a 14 team league in 2 years time.

With hearts down next season we really could move ahead them on and off the pitch. This is the least they deserve for the 70 odd million they stole and Charities and small businesses they ripped off

If Hibs were 12th in a 14 team league they’d deserve everything coming to them , whether direct relegation or a play off

[Ozyhibby]

It's been pointed out before bit no team will have points deducted should they go into administration during this covid period. Not quite sure what happens after the league is called, perhaps any team would start the Premiership on minus points but by that stage, the maroon munters would be in a different (lower) league

Where did you read this?


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[Dr What If?]

It's been pointed out before bit no team will have points deducted should they go into administration during this covid period. Not quite sure what happens after the league is called, perhaps any team would start the Premiership on minus points but by that stage, the maroon munters would be in a different (lower) league
I did not know that, I guess I owe the WWI champs and apology. Suppose it was a bit of a complicated plan for a club run by 'simple' fans.

[The 90+2]

Where did you read this?


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It’s under one of the rules. force majeure.

[RossScott1991]

I’m lost. Are they getting relegated or no?

They just won’t flush !

[Springbank]

I’m lost. Are they getting relegated or no?

They just won’t flush !

Sunday Mail, Herald & BBC (kheredine) saying they are going down & tomorrow is the day it happens

As the great John Denver predicted:
I'm Le-veeeein, on a jet plane
Dont know when I'll be back again
Expulsion or relegate?
Who cares, they're Championship mate

[Irish_Steve]

Where did you read this?


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To be honest, I can`t remember where I actually read it but I definitely did read it as it was one of the concerns crossing my mind. I even looked at the table and saw that if we were docked 15 points for going into admin, we would be bottom so it was a major relief to see that no team would suffer that way. NO matter what way the Fartz want to cut it, they will always be bottom.

Actually it would be quite funny if reconstruction was agreed but only if both Dundees and ICT came up and they still went down - sent down by their own CEO, how awesome would that be lol

[007]

It's been pointed out before bit no team will have points deducted should they go into administration during this covid period. Not quite sure what happens after the league is called, perhaps any team would start the Premiership on minus points but by that stage, the maroon munters would be in a different (lower) league

Maybe they could change the rules so that clubs that don't take legal action against the SPFL that go into administration don't get docked points whereas clubs that waste theirs and everybody else's money going to court and then they go into administration, do get docked points. 🤔😃

[PeeKay]

It’s under one of the rules. force majeure.

My understanding is that to invoke force majeure a club would have to show that they would have been financially sound had they not been overtaken by the unforeseen events of the pandemic. Sevco would find this difficult to do having posted losses for years. Hearts, I'm not so sure.

[jacomo]

My understanding is that to invoke force majeure a club would have to show that they would have been financially sound had they not been overtaken by the unforeseen events of the pandemic. Sevco would find this difficult to do having posted losses for years. Hearts, I'm not so sure.


Banderson will tell you repeatedly that successful businesswoman Budge has run Hearts at a profit, even though they seem to have been relying on Benny Factor’s support to avoid losses.

It’s all about the parameters.

[The 90+2]

My understanding is that to invoke force majeure a club would have to show that they would have been financially sound had they not been overtaken by the unforeseen events of the pandemic. Sevco would find this difficult to do having posted losses for years. Hearts, I'm not so sure.

Of course. In the context of other clubs like St Mirren or Hamilton suffering deduction they wouldn’t get points taken off them because they would have been fine (probably still are) had the pandemic not occurred.

[The 90+2]

Banderson will tell you repeatedly that successful businesswoman Budge has run Hearts at a profit, even though they seem to have been relying on Benny Factor’s support to avoid losses.

It’s all about the parameters.

In fairness (never thought I would say that about them) I think the Bennys financing is agreed before the start of the season and worked into the budget, I don’t think it’s a few quid to cover losses.

[blackpoolhibs]

There is a lot of people scared to death here that the gimps won't be relegated, just have a little patience my friends.

Some of you lot are making a better fist of it than they are.:greengrin

11-1, just keep remembering that.

[K-Zazu]

There is a lot of people scared to death here that the gimps won't be relegated, just have a little patience my friends.

Some of you lot are making a better fist of it than they are.:greengrin

11-1, just keep remembering that.

People are saying it’s 9-3?

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

People are saying it’s 9-3?

9-3 for a change in team numbers, 11-1 for changes to the financial structure, which would change if the numbers increased.

[Aldo]

People are saying it’s 9-3?

So they need 9.

I have a feeling the No’s might be

Accies, St Mirren, Ross County, St Johnstone’s ooops and there you have it the baws burst.

Bye now.


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[Eyrie]

My understanding is that to invoke force majeure a club would have to show that they would have been financially sound had they not been overtaken by the unforeseen events of the pandemic. Sevco would find this difficult to do having posted losses for years. Hearts, I'm not so sure.

Hearts would have the major problem there that Budge cited financial difficulties as her reason for demanding that their players take wage cuts immediately football stopped.

[CapitalGreen]

Maybe the premier league teams are just waiting until Hearts are officially relegated before they outright reject reconstruction so Budge isn’t on the videoconference when they do. A bit like an executioner covering the head of their victim.

[Waxy]

Really cant get my head round a 14 team division anyway.
I really do reckon it’s unfair and unworkable.
Split after 26 games? Your chucking one round of matches against the top teams right away and two if you finish in the bottom section.
Where does it cut? 6th or 8th?
Uneven number of games anyway.
Would a club be able to sell a half season ticket after just missing out on the top 6? Or is it 8?
Think there’s a reason we’ve never had a 14 team top division.
12 is as perfect as we’ll get.

[bingo70]

So they need 9.

I have a feeling the No’s might be

Accies, St Mirren, Ross County, St Johnstone’s ooops and there you have it the baws burst.

Bye now.


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I think you can add Hibs to the No’s as well.

[Aldo]

Really cant get my head round a 14 team division anyway.
I really do reckon it’s unfair and unworkable.
Split after 26 games? Your chucking one round of matches against the top teams right away and two if you finish in the bottom section.
Where does it cut? 6th or 8th?
Uneven number of games anyway.
Would a club be able to sell a half season ticket after just missing out on the top 6? Or is it 8?
Think there’s a reason we’ve never had a 14 team top division.
12 is as perfect as we’ll get.

I’m with you on this.

However the big if will be if clubs go fir the potential 2/3/4 team relegation after one season?? As I mentioned before I can’t see Accies, St Mirren, Ross County and St Johnstone going for it. So if it’s 9-3 that’s that blown out water.

I also cannot see the likes of Hibs/Well/Killie going for it either as it could possibly mean quiet a few meaningless matches.

I could however be wrong and the genius Budge might pull it off???? Then again maybe no.


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[Aldo]

I think you can add Hibs to the No’s as well.

I think so Bingo and mentioned this in my last post.


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[007]

Really cant get my head round a 14 team division anyway.
I really do reckon it’s unfair and unworkable.
Split after 26 games? Your chucking one round of matches against the top teams right away and two if you finish in the bottom section.
Where does it cut? 6th or 8th?
Uneven number of games anyway.
Would a club be able to sell a half season ticket after just missing out on the top 6? Or is it 8?
Think there’s a reason we’ve never had a 14 team top division.
12 is as perfect as we’ll get.

Good point, bottom half clubs are currently guaranteed 3 home games v Celtic/Rangers which would reduce to 2. I've seen it said the 20th home game is to make up for it but I don't see how it would come close to doing that.

Hearts people talk about the big away crowd they take but don't mention that for the bottom clubs it would be at the expense of a guaranteed game v Celtic/Rangers game as well games v the other top clubs.

[Waxy]

I’m with you on this.

However the big if will be if clubs go fir the potential 2/3/4 team relegation after one season?? As I mentioned before I can’t see Accies, St Mirren, Ross County and St Johnstone going for it. So if it’s 9-3 that’s that blown out water.

I also cannot see the likes of Hibs/Well/Killie going for it either as it could possibly mean quiet a few meaningless matches.

I could however be wrong and the genius Budge might pull it off???? Then again maybe no.


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Think its just they cant stomach their medicine.

[Aldo]

Think its just they cant stomach their medicine.

Yip and they’ve used this pandemic to plead poverty to some extent. M

Just been thinking (dangerous I know) but I am not aware of many clubs spouting about this in the same manner Budge has.


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[Waxy]

Good point, bottom half clubs are currently guaranteed 3 home games v Celtic/Rangers which would reduce to 2. I've seen it said the 20th home game is to make up for it but I don't see how it would come close to doing that.

Hearts people talk about the big away crowd they take but don't mention that for the bottom clubs it would be at the expense of a guaranteed game v Celtic/Rangers game as well games v the other top clubs.

Plus if you are in the section of 8 its a 40 game season.
Considering its meant to be temporary and with things the way they are. 40 matches is a no no right away.

[Waxy]

Yip and they’ve used this pandemic to plead poverty to some extent. M

Just been thinking (dangerous I know) but I am not aware of many clubs spouting about this in the same manner Budge has.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalkevery team must be struggling. The SPFL is in no position to bail out a basket case. Not at any time nevermind now.

[Aldo]

every team must be struggling. The SPFL is in no position to bail out a basket case. Not at any time nevermind now.

Thing is they set a dangerous precedence if they do it for them now and say in a few years someone else pops along and asks and they say no.

I am still confident it won’t happen and they are just going to have to GULP IT DOON and get on with it.

If that means Admin mk2 then so be it.

It’s their club and they are the ones responsible for getting into this state and not the current pandemic.


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[Aldo]

Plus if you are in the section of 8 its a 40 game season.
Considering its meant to be temporary and with things the way they are. 40 matches is a no no right away.

What I don’t get is why are they muting 36 games for some yet 40 for others (apart from playoffs etc)

Surely that is unfair and where is the sporting integrity?? Mind you it is Scotland


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[Sammy7nil]

every team must be struggling. The SPFL is in no position to bail out a basket case. Not at any time nevermind now.

Basket case! Basket case ? The maroon £ will ensure their safety and long-term sustainability whilst every other club in the UK will go bust.

[Waxy]

What I don’t get is why are they muting 36 games for some yet 40 for others (apart from playoffs etc)

Surely that is unfair and where is the sporting integrity?? Mind you it is Scotland


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI’d like to think it just cant happen.

[Aldo]

I’d like to think it just cant happen.

It won’t and the sooner this debacle is over the bloody better!


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[Waxy]

It won’t and the sooner this debacle is over the bloody better!


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Agreed.

[snedzuk]

Good point, bottom half clubs are currently guaranteed 3 home games v Celtic/Rangers which would reduce to 2. I've seen it said the 20th home game is to make up for it but I don't see how it would come close to doing that.

Hearts people talk about the big away crowd they take but don't mention that for the bottom clubs it would be at the expense of a guaranteed game v Celtic/Rangers game as well games v the other top clubs.

Post pandemic, championship clubs will need income. What better way to get some than have a 'big' club in the division.

[JohnM1875]

I'm not a fan of reconstruction at all. But, unless I'm missing something. Why are folk suggesting a top 6 and bottom 8 split?

You could just play two rounds which gives you 26 games. Then top 7 and bottom 7. Play each team twice, which would be 12 games. Adding up to 38 games total for all teams? Seems straight forward to me. Still don't fancy it though.

[Eyrie]

I'm not a fan of reconstruction at all. But, unless I'm missing something. Why are folk suggesting a top 6 and bottom 8 split?

You could just play two rounds which gives you 26 games. Then top 7 and bottom 7. Play each team twice, which would be 12 games. Adding up to 38 games total for all teams? Seems straight forward to me. Still don't fancy it though.

There would be one team sitting idle every week in each group, so who would be picked to sit out the last week when their chance of the title/Europe/staying up is on the line?

[Kojock]

I'm not a fan of reconstruction at all. But, unless I'm missing something. Why are folk suggesting a top 6 and bottom 8 split?

You could just play two rounds which gives you 26 games. Then top 7 and bottom 7. Play each team twice, which would be 12 games. Adding up to 38 games total for all teams? Seems straight forward to me. Still don't fancy it though.

Means one team sitting out each round of fixtures. Could be crucial when it comes to the last game of the season.

[JohnM1875]

There would be one team sitting idle every week in each group, so who would be picked to sit out the last week when their chance of the title/Europe/staying up is on the line?

Good point!

Though the team who was idle could play their game during the week. But yeah you're right! Which is why people were suggesting 6/8. They're not mad after all! Haha

[Paul1642]

Where is the Monday deadline on reconstruction being quoted? Can’t see it?

[Ozyhibby]

Two teams sitting idle every week also adds to the number of match days you need over the season. Tricky in an already tight football calendar.


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[Greenworld]

Where is the Monday deadline on reconstruction being quoted? Can’t see it?https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ann-budges-race-against-time-22039234

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[Real Emerald]

Where is the Monday deadline on reconstruction being quoted? Can’t see it?

There’s nothing official on it even being talked about, just what’s been reported on Sportsound and picked up by the papers. Has any other official source mentioned anything about it? I don’t even think Budge has mentioned it, unless I’ve missed that.

[The Falcon]

Where did you read this?


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Am sure I read it as well but I read it as no more than a suggestion.

That said there a part of me that thinks relegation would suit Hearts. It would allow them (probably) to cull a bloated playing squad and dubious managerial appointment, may have been down to Levein but no significant change in fortunes since his appointment, whilst remaing as a top division club may present more problems.

[Greenworld]

There’s nothing official on it even being talked about, just what’s been reported on Sportsound and picked up by the papers. Has any other official source mentioned anything about it? I don’t even think Budge has mentioned it, unless I’ve missed that.https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ann-budges-race-against-time-22039234

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[Real Emerald]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ann-budges-race-against-time-22039234

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Yes but it’s all caveated with “reportedly” and there is no official statements even from Budge. I’m not saying it’s not happening but it’s only media speculation as far as I can see. No Premiership club or the SPFL has mentioned anything about it.

Edit: I have to add no one is denying it either.

[04Sauzee]

From Twitter

Understand Kelty Hearts, following legal advice, have written to SFA/SPFL re door closed to potential promotion. Kelty, from what I hear, up for challenging this all the way

[Heisenberg]

From Twitter

Understand Kelty Hearts, following legal advice, have written to SFA/SPFL re door closed to potential promotion. Kelty, from what I hear, up for challenging this all the way

They can challenge it all the way if they like but it’ll get absolutely nowhere. They were only going to get a playoff, that can’t happen due to the current circumstances. I also don’t see the vast number of other teams missing out on their playoffs doing the same. Kelty have *****ed a huge amount of money to get promoted and it looks like they are now panicking. I honestly see no way that they could win any legal case on this.

[Caversham Green]

A couple of points to raise from the last few pages:

First, the rule on a club suffering an insolvency event is that they can appeal against the points deduction for a limited number of reasons, one of which is force majeur. That would suggest that each case would be considered on its own merits but in the current circumstances I'd be surprised if any appeal was rejected. I think there was a comment to that effect in the press by someone at the SPFL early on in the crisis.

Second, the restructure affects all four divisions so they would all have to pass the vote, presumably on the same basis as the previous one to call the season for the lower divisions. As I said earlier, as far as I can see there are seven Championship clubs that would be adversely affected by the restructuring so even if they were to get a 9:3 vote in the Premiership they'd struggle to get eight Championship clubs to vote in favour. The bottom two divisions would be a close run thing IMO.

[FilipinoHibs]

Means one team sitting out each round of fixtures. Could be crucial when it comes to the last game of the season.

League of 14, play 3 times then 6/8 split. More games yes but a one off to placate those relegated/in play off positions. Just saying like.

[Marco G]

A couple of points to raise from the last few pages:

First, the rule on a club suffering an insolvency event is that they can appeal against the points deduction for a limited number of reasons, one of which is force majeur. That would suggest that each case would be considered on its own merits but in the current circumstances I'd be surprised if any appeal was rejected. I think there was a comment to that effect in the press by someone at the SPFL early on in the crisis.

Second, the restructure affects all four divisions so they would all have to pass the vote, presumably on the same basis as the previous one to call the season for the lower divisions. As I said earlier, as far as I can see there are seven Championship clubs that would be adversely affected by the restructuring so even if they were to get a 9:3 vote in the Premiership they'd struggle to get eight Championship clubs to vote in favour. The bottom two divisions would be a close run thing IMO.Plus, since prize fund share out would be changed would need 11 to 1 vote in top league. Since Daily Record reporting that only the calling of the league is being discussed at todays conference call, I assume that if or when Ann Budge came up with a plan, Hearts would be voting as a championship club alongside ICT who have already hacked off all the other clubs in that division.

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[Danderhall Hibs]

From Twitter

Understand Kelty Hearts, following legal advice, have written to SFA/SPFL re door closed to potential promotion. Kelty, from what I hear, up for challenging this all the way

This is incredible, a team that have been handed the title when it was still very much up for grabs, from a league who haven’t relegated anyone this season complain that they’re not getting promoted when in fact all they were given (in addition to a title) was an opportunity to get promoted through the play offs.

[B.H.F.C]

This is incredible, a team that have been handed the title when it was still very much up for grabs, from a league who haven’t relegated anyone this season complain that they’re not getting promoted when in fact all they were given (in addition to a title) was an opportunity to get promoted through the play offs.

Correct. Didn’t see any complaints from them when they were awarded the title!

[chippy]

Correct. Didn’t see any complaints from them when they were awarded the title!

if they go ahead with that which I doubt. It will be the end of the pyramid and rightly so. Tail wagging dog

[mal]

League of 14, play 3 times then 6/8 split. More games yes but a one off to placate those relegated/in play off positions. Just saying like.

46 games (assuming no play offs), extending the season by at least a month? That's more than a 50% increase on the number of games we completed this season and at a time when pandemic disruption is still a high possibility. I'm assuming even Anne Budge wouldn't propose that format.

[The Count]

I just wonder if the SPFL is playing a legal blinder here by giving Budgie a couple of chances to save Hearts.So that if Hearts do raise legal action part of the SPFL defence would be look we gave Hearts two attempts at reorganisation but unfortunately no agreement could be reached.This will help to show that the SPFL acted in good faith.

[007]

The threat of legal action (and what seems a flimsy case at that) is the worst reason to reconstruct the leagues. Hopefully clubs won't submit to this bullying tactic.

[Crazyhorse]

46 games (assuming no play offs), extending the season by at least a month? That's more than a 50% increase on the number of games we completed this season and at a time when pandemic disruption is still a high possibility. I'm assuming even Anne Budge wouldn't propose that format.

Good point re increased league = increased number of games. They will also probably try to overload the second half of the season I. The hope of spectators being allowed in. Fixture congestion could be horrendous.

[04Sauzee]

From Twitter

Scottish Cup will be finished at earliest opportunity but @ScottishFA preference is for fans to attend semis and final. Which could , in theory , mean 2 Scottish Cups being won in 2021 if they can’t finish this season’s competition this calendar year ...

[Joe6-2]

From Twitter

Scottish Cup will be finished at earliest opportunity but @ScottishFA preference is for fans to attend semis and final. Which could , in theory , mean 2 Scottish Cups being won in 2021 if they can’t finish this season’s competition this calendar year ...

After years of hurt, culminating in that brilliant day in 2016, let’s make history and win both!!

[007]

From Twitter

Scottish Cup will be finished at earliest opportunity but @ScottishFA preference is for fans to attend semis and final. Which could , in theory , mean 2 Scottish Cups being won in 2021 if they can’t finish this season’s competition this calendar year ...

I think Aberdeen are getting the 4th European spot from 4th in the league meaning if Hibs or Hearts win the cup, they won't qualify for Europe. That's fair enough however to redress this Hibs or Hearts should get Aberdeen's place next time they qualify and we (or Hearts) don't. Will never happen of course but maybe we should threaten to lodge an interdict/injunction if we don't get our way. At the very least we (or Hearts) might get some of Aberdeen's prize money as compensation. :cb

[delbert]

if they go ahead with that which I doubt. It will be the end of the pyramid and rightly so. Tail wagging dog

The pyramid was a FIFA requirement which is why the SFA were late to the party, dragged there kicking and screaming actually because they were against it, but the pyramid is here to stay.

[JimBHibees]

I think Aberdeen are getting the 4th European spot from 4th in the league meaning if Hibs or Hearts win the cup, they won't qualify for Europe. That's fair enough however to redress this Hibs or Hearts should get Aberdeen's place next time they qualify and we (or Hearts) don't. Will never happen of course but maybe we should threaten to lodge an interdict/injunction if we don't get our way. At the very least we (or Hearts) might get some of Aberdeen's prize money as compensation. :cb

Think there should be something like that. If Aberdeen get Europe they wouldn't have got by not winning the cup and Hibs or Hearts win the cup they should get something from Sheep to make up for that be it a pay off or their European place next season.

[Heisenberg]

Bit odd the SPFL haven’t mentioned any further reconstruction talks in their statement?

[Col2]

Bit odd the SPFL haven’t mentioned any further reconstruction talks in their statement?

I think it says it all. It’s not happening. Let her run around like a busy fool.

[Andy74]

Bit odd the SPFL haven’t mentioned any further reconstruction talks in their statement?

I don’t think there was ever anything official that it was back on the table?

[CapitalGreen]

Up until today, any reconstruction could be sold as Hearts keeping their place in the Premiership, from now on they need to sell reconstruction as why Hearts should be promoted from the Championship ahead of any other club.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Up until today, any reconstruction could be sold as Hearts keeping their place in the Premiership, from now on they need to sell reconstruction as why Hearts should be promoted from the Championship ahead of any other club.

1 less yes vote from the premiership clubs if/when there’s a vote.

[kdhibees1]

Ann budge has been done up like a kipper

[Waxy]

Bit odd the SPFL haven’t mentioned any further reconstruction talks in their statement?

Because they know its unworkable. The only thing wrong here is a club not wanting to take their medicine.

[we are hibs]

1 less yes vote from the premiership clubs if/when there’s a vote.

Hearts were a defo yes and dundee utd are a defo no 😂

[7heaven]

Ann budge has been done up like a kipper

Until it is announced officially that there is no re-construction I will wait until I celebrate.
I think there is something going on in the background re-construction.

[GreenCastle]

Anytime mentions reconstruction just say..

Ok..

Dundee Utd, Inverness and Dundee up..Hearts down and see the reaction. Priceless.

Don’t worry Budge will make sure reconstruction is still on the table in case they struggle to get promoted next season. She will be desperate for expanded league next year !

[Andy74]

1 less yes vote from the premiership clubs if/when there’s a vote.

I can't see any way that there will be a vote on this after than statement.

[bingo70]

I can't see any way that there will be a vote on this after than statement.

I think my mind will be put at ease a bit more when Budge has released her waffling statement.

[Heisenberg]

Hearts going to submit a reconstruction plan as a members resolution, which means another vote. Only needs 3 SPFL clubs to back it to go to a vote so no surprises it’s got what it needs.

She’s basically said, reconstruct the leagues or we’re taking you to court.

https://twitter.com/jamtarts/status/1262353774175301634?s=21

[Sammy7nil]

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/club-statement-1-2-3-4-5-6-7

Statement incoming summary - positive talks held, SPFL change yer mind or see in court

[Waxy]

Ffs will this never end. Just get doon.
Can we no launch a legal action against hearts for doin our nuts in?

[mim]

Hearts going to submit a reconstruction plan as a members resolution, which means another vote. Only needs 3 SPFL clubs to back it to go to a vote so no surprises it’s got what it needs.

She’s basically said, reconstruct the leagues or we’re taking you to court.

https://twitter.com/jamtarts/status/1262353774175301634?s=21

As Hearts were relegated today, reconstruction to a 14 team top league would surely involve promoting Dundee and ICT :agree:

[Heisenberg]

https://www.heartsfc.co.uk/news/article/club-statement-1-2-3-4-5-6-7

Statement incoming summary - positive talks held, SPFL change yer mind or see in court

She said there had been positive talks about reconstruction before and it got swiftly binned. I’m sure these latest talks will have been held with the likes of Inverness, Partick, Falkirk etc.

[GordonHFC]

Ffs will this never end. Just get doon.
Can we no launch a legal action against hearts for doin our nuts in?

"The cost to the club to take legal action will out way the cost of relegation"

Only if they win their case which is highly unlikely and its probably not in their best interest to take on Scottish football..

[KDY Hibs]

Ffs will this never end. Just get doon.
Can we no launch a legal action against hearts for doin our nuts in?

They are indeed the rogue jobby that won't flush!

[Waxy]

"The cost to the club to take legal action will out way the cost of relegation"

Only if they win their case which is highly unlikely and its probably not in their best interest to take on Scottish football..

Shes threatening to take the spfl to court because her club finished bottom.
They’re not being punished at all, they’re looking to take advantage of covid 19. They should be getting a points deduction for this.

[BoomtownHibees]

Now that they’ve been officially relegated and if reconstruction was to get voted through, on what grounds would it be Hearts that get added to the top league?

[04Sauzee]

Now that they’ve been officially relegated and if reconstruction was to get voted through, on what grounds would it be Hearts that get added to the top league?

That's what I'm wondering, they have been officially relegated if they want 14 teams then surely it's the next best placed in then championship? I must be missing something very obvious?

[Brunswickbill]

Mrs Budge, in her statement today, says that she’s going to take forward a member’s resolution. On the basis of the Sevco Resolution she’ll need to get 2 supporters. Presumably Partick and Stranraer will support. So it looks like reconstruction will go back to the full SPFL vote. Flogging a dead horse in my view.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I can't see any way that there will be a vote on this after than statement.

Bring on the court case. An opportunity to liquidate Leslie Deans, Hearts into admin and still relegated.

That’s the perfect hat trick.

[Waxy]

Probably be easier now to just go to court. Then the right thing will be done and they can shut up.

[Waxy]

Mrs Budge, in her statement today, says that she’s going to take forward a member’s resolution. On the basis of the Sevco Resolution she’ll need to get 2 supporters. Presumably Partick and Stranraer will support. So it looks like reconstruction will go back to the full SPFL vote. Flogging a dead horse in my view.

Surely the season is done now. Have a week off Budge.

[Kaiser1962]

Hearts going to submit a reconstruction plan as a members resolution, which means another vote. Only needs 3 SPFL clubs to back it to go to a vote so no surprises it’s got what it needs.

She’s basically said, reconstruct the leagues or we’re taking you to court.

https://twitter.com/jamtarts/status/1262353774175301634?s=21

Is she going to tell the likes of Stranraer that they are "diddy clubs" and dont really have a role in the future of football, along with the vast mafority of clubs in League 1 + 2?

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/36999758

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/startling-comments-ann-budge-regret-21877586

[wills]

By all means let AB take it to court, when she loses the SPFL should withdraw their licence to compete in the league and promote Kelty or whoever into the lower league. Job done

[Del Boy]

Probably be easier now to just go to court. Then the right thing will be done and they can shut up.

If it goes to court how long is it likely to take before they get a ruling? Surely wouldn’t be done before season starts? Plus if Hearts won the case then surely the SPFL would then appeal it - process will take months!

[Sammy7nil]

By all means let AB take it to court, when she loses the SPFL should withdraw their licence to compete in the league and promote Kelty or whoever into the lower league. Job done

Posts like this just make us look silly leave the daft posts to KB

[Onceinawhile]

I wouldn't mind permanent, well thought-out, for the good of the game reconstruction.

A rush job just to save three teams - two of whom were going down anyway, is not ok.

[JimBHibees]

I can't see any way that there will be a vote on this after than statement.

Yep basically a threat to sue. Should be told to bolt.

[seanshow]

Vague threats of legal action :faf: if you dont accept our reconstruction recommendations, good luck with that and get your throbber Deans to represent you against the Spfl and Uefa. :greengrin

[Waxy]

Its been proven that 14 team leagues cant work and ultimately are a cause of unfairness. That leaves 16 or more, all stop the 4 old firm matches which means them and sky loss millions.
Enjoy the championship.

[snedzuk]

"As previously intimated the club has been taking legal advice throughout this process and are continuing to do so. We hope that the resolution being prepared will avoid the need to go down this route. Legal action would be both time consuming and expensive. However the cost to the club of relegation would outweigh these considerations"

What if they lose and then have to cover the costs of others?? - can they afford legal action?

[Waxy]

"As previously intimated the club has been taking legal advice throughout this process and are continuing to do so. We hope that the resolution being prepared will avoid the need to go down this route. Legal action would be both time consuming and expensive. However the cost to the club of relegation would outweigh these considerations"

What if they lose and then have to cover the costs of others?? - can they afford legal action?
They have no case and they know it. They’ll just have to deal with relegation like every other team has had to deal with it now and in the past.

[Real Emerald]

They have no case and they know it. They’ll just have to deal with relegation like every other team has had to deal with it now and in the past.

The SPFL have followed all their rules and procedures put in place for such things. It was then voted through. They don’t have a leg to stand on and any more delays and dramas will further damage Scottish Football. They are saying it’s unfair to get relegated but it’s absolutely fair within the rules. It may be unfortunate but if you look at 15 months of form they don’t even have that to cling to.

[007]

All the SPFL voting should be done as secret ballots and then clubs wouldn't be falling out with and bitching about each other afterwards so much. That said, I like to know how we and others voted.

[we are hibs]

Bbc scotland just now reporter saying hearts will have one last go at pushing for reconstruction but its a long shot.

[Jim44]

Bbc scotland just now reporter saying hearts will have one last go at pushing for reconstruction but its a long shot.

I’ve asked on another thread but no response. How can reconstruction save them? They are now, officially, a Championship team. D. Utd. are now a Premiership team. If reconstruction is agreed, say to a 14 team Premiership, why should Hearts be one of the two teams moved up? How do they decide which two teams move up?

[Waxy]

Bbc scotland just now reporter saying hearts will have one last go at pushing for reconstruction but its a long shot.

Hearts at the mercy of the goodwill of Scottish football fans and the clubs they support.
They should have thought about there own behaviour over the last few decades, then maybe they would have had a slight chance.

Oh well Karma and that.

[Waxy]

I’ve asked on another thread but no response. How can reconstruction save them? They are now, officially, a Championship team. D. Utd. are now a Premiership team. If reconstruction is agreed, say to a 14 team Premiership, why should Hearts be one of the two teams moved up? How do they decide which two teams move up?
Dundee and ICT would move up surely. Cant see a legal way hearts could go back up. Dundee would have a bigger case than Hearts surely?

[Joe6-2]

The SPFL have followed all their rules and procedures put in place for such things. It was then voted through. They don’t have a leg to stand on and any more delays and dramas will further damage Scottish Football. They are saying it’s unfair to get relegated but it’s absolutely fair within the rules. It may be unfortunate but if you look at 15 months of form they don’t even have that to cling to.

Why don’t the SPFL point this out to them in no uncertain terms, as they seem totally incapable of understanding rules, and tell Budge to shut up!

[Billy Whizz]

Bbc scotland just now reporter saying hearts will have one last go at pushing for reconstruction but its a long shot.

The good old BBC. Didn’t they say on Saturday that Budge was putting a proposal, that was to be shared today

[Pete]

So to get any form of reconstruction that increases the top flight to 14 teams, there would need to be 11 teams out of 12 in the top flight voting for it. Hearts have been relegated so they wont get a vote.

As said on the BBC podcast, why would anyone vote for more clubs, therefore diluting their share of prize money next season? Clubs can vote for it on moral grounds but if 2 take the view that money comes first then it's dead.

Sounds like it's over and court action for more money is all that's left.

[Brunswickbill]

Budge probably didn’t want to leave it to the SPFL Board to decide on reconstruction so it looks like she’ll put it as a member’s resolution. She’ll want to be seen to have taken reconstruction as far as she can so she can say to her supporters “I did my best but these horrible SPFL people said no.” She’s flogging a dead horse and given that it’s likely to be the best part of two weeks before a meeting can be arranged people will just want to get it out of the way and prepare for the new season.

[bingo70]

"As previously intimated the club has been taking legal advice throughout this process and are continuing to do so. We hope that the resolution being prepared will avoid the need to go down this route. Legal action would be both time consuming and expensive. However the cost to the club of relegation would outweigh these considerations"

What if they lose and then have to cover the costs of others?? - can they afford legal action?

Presumably the legal costs will be the same for both parties, the spfl legal costs will be shared across all 42 clubs though (including Hearts?) while Hearts legal costs will be paid for just by themselves?

I think Budge has made a complete arse of these negotiations and even now, threatening people with court before trying to persuade them seems a mental tactic.

She doesn’t seem to realise she’s not negotiating from a position of strength.

[Bristolhibby]

I’ve asked on another thread but no response. How can reconstruction save them? They are now, officially, a Championship team. D. Utd. are now a Premiership team. If reconstruction is agreed, say to a 14 team Premiership, why should Hearts be one of the two teams moved up? How do they decide which two teams move up?

What like why should The The Rangers be the newest team in the football league? Gerrymandered into the League.

Should have had to show three years of audited accounts as a minimum.

J

[Waxy]

So to get any form of reconstruction that increases the top flight to 14 teams, there would need to be 11 teams out of 12 in the top flight voting for it. Hearts have been relegated so they wont get a vote.

As said on the BBC podcast, why would anyone vote for more clubs, therefore diluting their share of prize money next season? Clubs can vote for it on moral grounds but if 2 take the view that money comes first then it's dead.

Sounds like it's over and court action for more money is all that's left.
Even then Dundee and ICT have more right to the places than hearts.

[Greenworld]

She is making a complete fool of herself . She must know she has no chance of reconstruction and should recognize that and say so.
She also has no chance in court if the court even agreed to listen to the plea.


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[Spike Mandela]

It will surely come down to SPFL legal advice. If their lawyers think Hearts case has any potential to be won this might spook a few Chairmen into voting for reconstruction. If on the other hand they think the SPFL have no case to answer then reconstruction would seem unlikely.

[CB_NO3]

It will surely come down to SPFL legal advice. If their lawyers think Hearts case has any potential to be won this might spook a few Chairmen into voting for reconstruction. If on the other hand they think the SPFL have no case to answer then reconstruction would seem unlikely.
Do you not think the SPFL lawyers would have thought of that before today' announcement?

[Greenworld]

Got sent this an I nteresting view point on Hearts .

Meanwhile a word on Hearts and their threat to pursue legal action against the SPFL after today’s announcement that the season is over, Celtic are Champions and Hearts are relegated and no restructuring can be agreed for the new term.
A leading Edinburgh solicitor, well versed in dealing with Judicial Reviews, who has previously told The Celtic Star that he/she was surprised by the decision of Celtic fans not to pursue a similar action against the Scottish FA regarding the Lord Nimmo Smith decision after the Supreme Court found that the Rangers EBT tax scheme was unlawful, has given us an opinion on what Ann Budge is threatening today.
It’s worth noting what the senior legal professional has told The Celtic Star today. (We never asked but were sent the opinion anyway! Oh thanks is due for the help in defeating the Null and Voiders).
“Heart’s fans ready to pledge ‘serious money’ for legal battle,” our brief noted.
“The amount of money raised, serious or otherwise, is not as important as the merits of the legal case and it’s prospects of success. The Court’s permission is required to proceed with a judicial review and they will take into account 2 issues: whether there is ‘sufficient interest’ in the subject matter and whether there is a ‘real prospect of success’. It is also worth asking if this case raises an important matter of public policy which will inform future actions and decisions? Or is it a one off situation..a once in a hundred year event?
Besides, ‘success’ will not necessarily give Hearts want they want…the Court will not impose a different decision or outcome, to that of the SPL. Success means that today’s SPL decision may be quashed and the SPL will have to make. the decision again, taking into account whatever defect in law was identified by the Court. That more often than not means the same outcome.
“Lawyers’ often say that, in judicial review cases, there are no wrong answers, only wrong questions. So ‘success’ likely to be SPL reaching the same answer via a different question.

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[jacomo]

"As previously intimated the club has been taking legal advice throughout this process and are continuing to do so. We hope that the resolution being prepared will avoid the need to go down this route. Legal action would be both time consuming and expensive. However the cost to the club of relegation would outweigh these considerations"

What if they lose and then have to cover the costs of others?? - can they afford legal action?


You have found the flaw in their plan. Relegation + failed legal action will be very, very expensive.

[Bostonhibby]

Bbc scotland just now reporter saying hearts will have one last go at pushing for reconstruction but its a long shot.Pushing for actual construction of the White Elephant Stand might be a better priority for them to be honest, if it goes on any longer they could end up having to reconstruct it before it's ever finished.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[CB_NO3]

Got sent this an I nteresting view point on Hearts .

Meanwhile a word on Hearts and their threat to pursue legal action against the SPFL after today’s announcement that the season is over, Celtic are Champions and Hearts are relegated and no restructuring can be agreed for the new term.
A leading Edinburgh solicitor, well versed in dealing with Judicial Reviews, who has previously told The Celtic Star that he/she was surprised by the decision of Celtic fans not to pursue a similar action against the Scottish FA regarding the Lord Nimmo Smith decision after the Supreme Court found that the Rangers EBT tax scheme was unlawful, has given us an opinion on what Ann Budge is threatening today.
It’s worth noting what the senior legal professional has told The Celtic Star today. (We never asked but were sent the opinion anyway! Oh thanks is due for the help in defeating the Null and Voiders).
“Heart’s fans ready to pledge ‘serious money’ for legal battle,” our brief noted.
“The amount of money raised, serious or otherwise, is not as important as the merits of the legal case and it’s prospects of success. The Court’s permission is required to proceed with a judicial review and they will take into account 2 issues: whether there is ‘sufficient interest’ in the subject matter and whether there is a ‘real prospect of success’. It is also worth asking if this case raises an important matter of public policy which will inform future actions and decisions? Or is it a one off situation..a once in a hundred year event?
Besides, ‘success’ will not necessarily give Hearts want they want…the Court will not impose a different decision or outcome, to that of the SPL. Success means that today’s SPL decision may be quashed and the SPL will have to make. the decision again, taking into account whatever defect in law was identified by the Court. That more often than not means the same outcome.
“Lawyers’ often say that, in judicial review cases, there are no wrong answers, only wrong questions. So ‘success’ likely to be SPL reaching the same answer via a different question.

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk
What does that mean? Was it written by a 9 yr old.

[Greenworld]

What does that mean? Was it written by a 9 yr old.LoL no idea got sent it thought i would share basically saying even if hearts win they lose

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[Waxy]

And when deconstruction gets kicked into touch (as it should) in a day or three, we’ll all be able to go through all these tantrums and flying toys again.

[brog]

Got sent this an I nteresting view point on Hearts .

Meanwhile a word on Hearts and their threat to pursue legal action against the SPFL after today’s announcement that the season is over, Celtic are Champions and Hearts are relegated and no restructuring can be agreed for the new term.
A leading Edinburgh solicitor, well versed in dealing with Judicial Reviews, who has previously told The Celtic Star that he/she was surprised by the decision of Celtic fans not to pursue a similar action against the Scottish FA regarding the Lord Nimmo Smith decision after the Supreme Court found that the Rangers EBT tax scheme was unlawful, has given us an opinion on what Ann Budge is threatening today.
It’s worth noting what the senior legal professional has told The Celtic Star today. (We never asked but were sent the opinion anyway! Oh thanks is due for the help in defeating the Null and Voiders).
“Heart’s fans ready to pledge ‘serious money’ for legal battle,” our brief noted.
“The amount of money raised, serious or otherwise, is not as important as the merits of the legal case and it’s prospects of success. The Court’s permission is required to proceed with a judicial review and they will take into account 2 issues: whether there is ‘sufficient interest’ in the subject matter and whether there is a ‘real prospect of success’. It is also worth asking if this case raises an important matter of public policy which will inform future actions and decisions? Or is it a one off situation..a once in a hundred year event?
Besides, ‘success’ will not necessarily give Hearts want they want…the Court will not impose a different decision or outcome, to that of the SPL. Success means that today’s SPL decision may be quashed and the SPL will have to make. the decision again, taking into account whatever defect in law was identified by the Court. That more often than not means the same outcome.
“Lawyers’ often say that, in judicial review cases, there are no wrong answers, only wrong questions. So ‘success’ likely to be SPL reaching the same answer via a different question.

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

Takes me back to my work days when i tried to get a straight answer from our Legal dept. This makes Budgie's rants seem sensible!

[brog]

Surely the season is done now. Have a week off Budge.

I agree but if her team had shown as much persistence on the pitch then they might not be in the keek now!!

[Greenworld]

Judicial review is for decisions by a public body. SPFL I assume is a private company therefore it would be incompetent.No idea you would need a legal eagle but I'm sure I've i heard it in sport before

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[Jdawg]

No idea you would need a legal eagle but I'm sure I've i heard it in sport before

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

My mistake. It’s not in England and Wales but can be used in Scotland for private bodies provided a certain criteria is met (from Scottish Government website) There must be atripartite relationship between the source of the decision making power, the person or people towhom that decision making power has been delegated and the person or people affected bythat decision making power.

The member clubs voted per the rules and the decision made in accordance with those rules, so I cant see any ground for judicial review.

I tried to delete my post as the info was wrong but you must have replied before it deleted :)

[malcolm]

Got sent this an I nteresting view point on Hearts .

Meanwhile a word on Hearts and their threat to pursue legal action against the SPFL after today’s announcement that the season is over, Celtic are Champions and Hearts are relegated and no restructuring can be agreed for the new term.
A leading Edinburgh solicitor, well versed in dealing with Judicial Reviews, who has previously told The Celtic Star that he/she was surprised by the decision of Celtic fans not to pursue a similar action against the Scottish FA regarding the Lord Nimmo Smith decision after the Supreme Court found that the Rangers EBT tax scheme was unlawful, has given us an opinion on what Ann Budge is threatening today.
It’s worth noting what the senior legal professional has told The Celtic Star today. (We never asked but were sent the opinion anyway! Oh thanks is due for the help in defeating the Null and Voiders).
“Heart’s fans ready to pledge ‘serious money’ for legal battle,” our brief noted.
“The amount of money raised, serious or otherwise, is not as important as the merits of the legal case and it’s prospects of success. The Court’s permission is required to proceed with a judicial review and they will take into account 2 issues: whether there is ‘sufficient interest’ in the subject matter and whether there is a ‘real prospect of success’. It is also worth asking if this case raises an important matter of public policy which will inform future actions and decisions? Or is it a one off situation..a once in a hundred year event?
Besides, ‘success’ will not necessarily give Hearts want they want…the Court will not impose a different decision or outcome, to that of the SPL. Success means that today’s SPL decision may be quashed and the SPL will have to make. the decision again, taking into account whatever defect in law was identified by the Court. That more often than not means the same outcome.
“Lawyers’ often say that, in judicial review cases, there are no wrong answers, only wrong questions. So ‘success’ likely to be SPL reaching the same answer via a different question.

Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

Why would anyone be thinking about a judicial review at the court of session? That is a look at the process of the exercise of authority, not the outcome, and I believe is relevant to a process of a public body not a private member organisation. The spfl for example seem to have carried out their rules not unreasonably but rather fairly and proportionately.

In respect to any other relevant action that it is being suggested hearts may look to take .. it really does not look to me that they have any substance to support pursuit of any claim so it seems all wind and bluster. Empty vessels and heads... in my uninformed opinion.

[Jdawg]

Why would anyone be thinking about a judicial review at the court of session? That is a look at the process of the exercise of authority, not the outcome, and I believe is relevant to a process of a public body not a private member organisation. The spfl for example seem to have carried out their rules not unreasonably but rather fairly and proportionately.

In respect to any other relevant action that it is being suggested hearts may look to take .. it really does not look to me that they have any substance to support pursuit of any claim so it seems all wind and bluster. Empty vessels and heads... in my uninformed opinion.

I made an error before but amended my above post. I had a flick through my uni notes and the guidance note by Scottish government and all remedies must be exhausted prior to judicial review. If you search judicial review Scotland it’s the first pdf that comes up.

[Greenworld]

My mistake. It’s not in England and Wales but can be used in Scotland for private bodies provided a certain criteria is met (from Scottish Government website) There must be atripartite relationship between the source of the decision making power, the person or people towhom that decision making power has been delegated and the person or people affected bythat decision making power.

The member clubs voted per the rules and the decision made in accordance with those rules, so I cant see any ground for judicial review.

I tried to delete my post as the info was wrong but you must have replied before it deleted :)Your way ahead of me i don't have a clue on law . Paid some hefty solicitor bills in my time so i know there not cheap . Thats my sum knowledge lol

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[Spike Mandela]

Do you not think the SPFL lawyers would have thought of that before today' announcement?

They may have. We don’t know the outcome of that and it may be that they might have said there is a potential for legal action. They might consider it reasonable that the SPFL case would prevail but perhsps it is not watertight, who knows?

There has to be some reason why this has been allowed to rumble on and she has been allowed another crack at reconstruction. Budge has threatened legal action since the second the league was suspended and is still threatening it now.

[Wakeyhibee]

They may have. We don’t know the outcome of that and it may be that they might have said there is a potential for legal action. They might consider it reasonable that the SPFL case would prevail but perhsps it is not watertight, who knows?

There has to be some reason why this has been allowed to rumble on and she has been allowed another crack at reconstruction. Budge has threatened legal action since the second the league was suspended and is still threatening it now.

I thought the same. Maybe this is preferable to the SPFL so they can divert all their energies into preparing for next season.

I've heard nothing of any penalty clauses on the current TV deal seen as it's been called now. I'm only guessing here, are they are avoiding or postponing any unwanted distractions from sorting out the TV deal from this season and next?

If they did say it was final and legal proceedings started it would take up most of their time even if they were safe in winning it.

This way its more proof (if they needed it) that theyve done everything possible. The SPFL can get on with the real issues facing everyone.

[Waxy]

Started with their tainted cup win already today.What a nice club eh.Think they'll get the 10 votes they need for reconstruction no problem.
There's us then there's St mirren then............wait nevermind.

[malcolm]

I made an error before but amended my above post. I had a flick through my uni notes and the guidance note by Scottish government and all remedies must be exhausted prior to judicial review. If you search judicial review Scotland it’s the first pdf that comes up.

I had not seen your post but I would expect the possibility of a review of the exercise of a delegated authority in a private body may be more theoretical. My analogy here would be who would expect a review by the court of session of the exercise of the rules of a private members club by its governing council and officials where that exercise was delegated to it by its members and when that exercise was guided by and subject to a vote by its members.

All my opinion of course based on working with law and legislation a couple of areas plus my interest in it - effectively an unqualified opinion but this seems to have come up via ineloquent Celtc minded keyboard Lawyers so that unqualified opinion rather recklessly started from an expectation that it was bound to be tosh! :wink:

[Aldo]

Started with their tainted cup win already today.What a nice club eh.Think they'll get the 10 votes they need for reconstruction no problem.
There's us then there's St mirren then............wait nevermind.

You can probably add Utd, Accies and Ross County to that list Waxy


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[jeffers]

Unless I’m missing something reconstruction could result in some clubs playing more games than they would under the current 12 team league setup. Given the 20/21 league is looking very unlikely to start on time, so games will need to be played in a shorter time frame than normal, the Huns and Celtic will want to compete in Europe, why the F would anyone vote for reconstruction ?

[Dashing Bob S]

This time three or months down the line the biggest mystery in Scottish football will be 'how on earth did we manage to waste so much time indulging these deluded fools on their protracted doomed quest to avoid relegation?'

[Waxy]

You can probably add Utd, Accies and Ross County to that list Waxy


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I'd be surprised if they got the chance to vote.

[Aldo]

I'd be surprised if they got the chance to vote.

Hopefully the SPFL have set a deadline and this doesn’t drag on even more. Get this put to bed this week so we can move on!


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[Greenworld]

I had not seen your post but I would expect the possibility of a review of the exercise of a delegated authority in a private body may be more theoretical. My analogy here would be who would expect a review by the court of session of the exercise of the rules of a private members club by its governing council and officials where that exercise was delegated to it by its members and when that exercise was guided by and subject to a vote by its members.

All my opinion of course based on working with law and legislation a couple of areas plus my interest in it - effectively an unqualified opinion but this seems to have come up via ineloquent Celtc minded keyboard Lawyers so that unqualified opinion rather recklessly started from an expectation that it was bound to be tosh! :wink:I only posted it as it said it was the view of an Edinburgh legal person . So probably as worthy as your viewpoint

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[green day]

Hearts will be putting two options to the league, presumably in crayon -

Temporary reconstruction

This would bring a further two teams into the Premiership until such time as the fat lady sings, and we then have the possibility of 4 clubs at risk of relegation in 12/24 months time.........and perhaps with a stronger Hearts at that point.

Rangers, Celtic and Aberdeen as well as Hearts seem vaguely keen on the idea.

I struggle to see why mid / low range Premiership clubs would vote for this on potential relegation grounds alone.

Budge has glossed over the financial side of this, but if the proposal was to settle the bottom 2 clubs the same %age as they get in the top 2 places of the Championship, then that will never fly.

Permanent reconstruction

This would adjust the finances (remember, 12th in the Prem currently gets more than twice the Champs winners !!) so requires 11-1

Never happening in a month of sundays.

Lower league clubs

Everything I wrote above only applies to how this impacts the Premiership. Any proposal to a 3 league of 14 SPFL will move some mid table League 1 clubs down to the new "bottom" division.

There will be some winners, but a fair few losers - again, we havent even touched on the financial settlement side.


I simply dont see that Budge will get the backing in the Premiership, never mind the can of worms in the lower leagues.

[Caversham Green]

Hearts will be putting two options to the league, presumably in crayon -

Temporary reconstruction

This would bring a further two teams into the Premiership until such time as the fat lady sings, and we then have the possibility of 4 clubs at risk of relegation in 12/24 months time.........and perhaps with a stronger Hearts at that point.

Rangers, Celtic and Aberdeen as well as Hearts seem vaguely keen on the idea.

I struggle to see why mid / low range Premiership clubs would vote for this on potential relegation grounds alone.

Budge has glossed over the financial side of this, but if the proposal was to settle the bottom 2 clubs the same %age as they get in the top 2 places of the Championship, then that will never fly.

Permanent reconstruction

This would adjust the finances (remember, 12th in the Prem currently gets more than twice the Champs winners !!) so requires 11-1

Never happening in a month of sundays.

Lower league clubs

Everything I wrote above only applies to how this impacts the Premiership. Any proposal to a 3 league of 14 SPFL will move some mid table League 1 clubs down to the new "bottom" division.

There will be some winners, but a fair few losers - again, we havent even touched on the financial settlement side.


I simply dont see that Budge will get the backing in the Premiership, never mind the can of worms in the lower leagues.

For the lower league clubs Cove would also effectively be denied their promotion. Punished for being successful while Hearts are rewarded for failure.

[hibbyfraelibby]

I'd love it if the only reconstruction proposal to get through was 12-12-10-10. 😉

[jeffers]

Hearts will be putting two options to the league, presumably in crayon -

Temporary reconstruction

This would bring a further two teams into the Premiership until such time as the fat lady sings, and we then have the possibility of 4 clubs at risk of relegation in 12/24 months time.........and perhaps with a stronger Hearts at that point.

Rangers, Celtic and Aberdeen as well as Hearts seem vaguely keen on the idea.

I struggle to see why mid / low range Premiership clubs would vote for this on potential relegation grounds alone.

Budge has glossed over the financial side of this, but if the proposal was to settle the bottom 2 clubs the same %age as they get in the top 2 places of the Championship, then that will never fly.

Permanent reconstruction

This would adjust the finances (remember, 12th in the Prem currently gets more than twice the Champs winners !!) so requires 11-1

Never happening in a month of sundays.

Lower league clubs

Everything I wrote above only applies to how this impacts the Premiership. Any proposal to a 3 league of 14 SPFL will move some mid table League 1 clubs down to the new "bottom" division.

There will be some winners, but a fair few losers - again, we havent even touched on the financial settlement side.


I simply dont see that Budge will get the backing in the Premiership, never mind the can of worms in the lower leagues.

Would both temporary and permanent not result in financial changes mate, meaning they need a 11-1 vote or am I getting this wrong ?

[GreenPJ]

Regardless the shape or the tenure of any reconstruction I am struggling to see how it actually helps Hearts. As of the announcement yesterday, the league was ended and Hearts are relegated to the Championship. As a Championship team on zero points as the new season has not started on what grounds do they believe they would have an entitlement to be 'promoted' to any larger league structure for the Premiership.

I would have thought that for reconstruction to save them they would have had to got it through before the league was called and they were formally relegated to a Championship team.

[Waxy]

Regardless the shape or the tenure of any reconstruction I am struggling to see how it actually helps Hearts. As of the announcement yesterday, the league was ended and Hearts are relegated to the Championship. As a Championship team on zero points as the new season has not started on what grounds do they believe they would have an entitlement to be 'promoted' to any larger league structure for the Premiership.

I would have thought that for reconstruction to save them they would have had to got it through before the league was called and they were formally relegated to a Championship team.
ICT and Dundee would go up before hearts.

[green day]

For the lower league clubs Cove would also effectively be denied their promotion. Punished for being successful while Hearts are rewarded for failure.

Yep - for every Hearts, Partick, Caley Thistle there is a Cove, Clyde etc etc


Would both temporary and permanent not result in financial changes mate, meaning they need a 11-1 vote or am I getting this wrong ?

Budge has been vague there - she did say in one interview that she didnt see this as a big obstacle:rolleyes:.

I cant see how that is the case - as I mention above, pulling in the Championship 1st and 2nd share of the prize pot into 13th and 14th spot would massively disadvantage clubs in those final positions...............which could be current safe mid table teams in the Premiership !!

So - to answer your Q - aye, if it changes the voting rights or money in the Premiership it still needs 11-1 :thumbsup:


I agree on one thing Budge says - everyone will vote with a degree of self interest, and not because they dont like Hearts, but because they are protecting their own positions.

[Billy Whizz]

I'd love it if the only reconstruction proposal to get through was 12-12-10-10. 😉

I’ve always said this is the best format, makes for a stronger Championship

[weecounty hibby]

You are all wrong, this is nothing to do with the tarts, this is for the greater good of Scottish football! Insular, selfish, short sighted, bitter, jealous, peg selling, spoon burning, hobos. 5-1 ya *******s!!!!!!

[Jdawg]

Jim Goodwin was on the Scottish football podcast at the weekend and said leagues are fine as they are. That’s pretty much your 1st no vote.

Last recon didn’t even reach a full proposal. Don’t see this one doing so either. Hearts voting as a championship club too.

I say we vote yes provided it’s Dundee and Inverness to come up all in the interest of rewarding sporting success (relatively) and integrity. That would really annoy them.

[K-Zazu]

How funny would it be if Inverness and Dundee came up

[HFC93]

They need an 11-1 vote in favour of reconstruction. It’s not going to happen. End of discussion.

[K-Zazu]

They need an 11-1 vote in favour of reconstruction. It’s not going to happen. End of discussion.

9-3 I think 🤔

[we are hibs]

You need a 11-1 vote to change it to 9-3 unless ive read it wrong

[Jdawg]

If it changes the financial side I think it’s 11-1.

[Heisenberg]

I reckon I’ve posted this on nearly every page of this thread 😂
11-1 = if the financial distribution changes/if the number of teams in the league setup change

9-3 = if the articles of association remain the same (I.e no new teams enter the league setup and all financials remain the same - which seems virtually impossible to achieve in my view?

That’s how it looks from what I’ve heard (Les Gray being the clearest on the subject) and read.

[Davy Mac]

Still think they will squirm out of this, so not celebrating there relegation until this reconstruction business is finished once and for all.

[Ronniekirk]

Hopefully the SPFL have set a deadline and this doesn’t drag on even more. Get this put to bed this week so we can move on!


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Why aren’t they being transparent re timescale and what meeting it’s going before


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[Victor]

I reckon I’ve posted this on nearly every page of this thread [emoji23]
11-1 = if the financial distribution changes/if the number of teams in the league setup change

9-3 = if the articles of association remain the same (I.e no new teams enter the league setup and all financials remain the same - which seems virtually impossible to achieve in my view?

That’s how it looks from what I’ve heard (Les Gray being the clearest on the subject) and read.

Then Hearts already have enough votes to demand reconstruction.
1 for 11 against. Simple.


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[JimBHibees]

You can probably add Utd, Accies and Ross County to that list Waxy


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Livingston and Killie?

[Aldo]

Livingston and Killie?

Yes and maybe even Well


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[southern hibby]

How funny would it be if Inverness and Dundee came up


Absolutely amazing. I’d love it


GGTTH

[Onion]

Budge should be spending her time reconstructing Hearts to fit in with the lower leagues, not reconstructing the league to accommodate them.

[Clarence]

Budge should be spending her time reconstructing Hearts to fit in with the lower leagues, not reconstructing the league to accommodate them.

That process started when they sacked Nielsen

[JimBHibees]

Yes and maybe even Well


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Yes Well also you would have thought.

[hibbyfraelibby]

9-3 I think 🤔

11-1 required. 9-3 is an oft quoted out of context red herring.

[Since452]

Budge should be spending her time reconstructing Hearts to fit in with the lower leagues, not reconstructing the league to accommodate them.

Exactly. They planned for Championship football for 12 months the last time when they deliberately held off on administration and a points deduction until relegation had been confirmed. Underhand tactics that are rarely spoken about.

Massively worked to their advantage, blooding youngsters at a good level with absolutely no pressure on them with -15 points. Romped the Championship the following season.

Complete opposite this time. Can see them toiling with the likes of Langer etc.

[Clarence]

That process started when they sacked Nielsen

Which in turn was started by Paul Hanlon’s last minute equaliser at Tynecastle. That goal effectively ended Hearts existence as a top flight club. I can really see them doing a Sunderland and not adapting to life in the Championship if they fail to come to terms with their fate. Last time they were relegated, they started their prep during the previous season and it worked, I doubt they will have the class to learn their lesson.

[Clarence]

Exactly. They planned for Championship football for 12 months the last time when they deliberately held off on administration and a points deduction until relegation had been confirmed. Underhand tactics that are rarely spoken about.

Massively worked to their advantage, blooding youngsters at a good level with absolutely no pressure on them with -15 points. Romped the Championship the following season.

Complete opposite this time. Can see them toiling with the likes of Langer etc.

Snap.

[Sammy7nil]

Complete opposite this time. Can see them toiling with the likes of Langer.

Surely with Woosnam, Westwood and Sam Torrance they would get jumped every week?

[hibeerealist]

You are all wrong, this is nothing to do with the tarts, this is for the greater good of Scottish football! Insular, selfish, short sighted, bitter, jealous, peg selling, spoon burning, hobos. 5-1 ya *******s!!!!!!


Spot on WCH, we are all being too harsh on Hertz and need to widen our horizons!!!!

[Spike Mandela]

So how much longer does this reconstruction farce rumble on then? Is there any sort of deadline for a decision?

[Ozyhibby]

So how much longer does this reconstruction farce rumble on then? Is there any sort of deadline for a decision?

Until Hearts fans get bored asking Budge to take the SPFL to court which she does not want to do.


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[Waxy]

So how much longer does this reconstruction farce rumble on then? Is there any sort of deadline for a decision?

She might take an age so much so it becomes pointless as time has run out ( already has imo) and she’ll get to blame everyone else. Again.

[Aldo]

Until Hearts fans get bored asking Budge to take the SPFL to court which she does not want to do.


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I wonder if Budge thinks the more she goes on about it (reconstruction) the SPFL will get fed up and just say let’s just forget about relegation Ann pop yourself back in the SPL


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[Heisenberg]

Reconstruction plan to be put out to clubs by the end of the week. She’s been phoning round club chief executives and chairman to get opinions (attempt to bully, coerce and threaten more like). Allisbarry also reckons it’ll need 11-1.

https://twitter.com/edinburghsport/status/1262769017837641730?s=21

[Lee Marvin]

Reconstruction plan to be put out to clubs by the end of the week. She’s been phoning round club chief executives and chairman to get opinions (attempt to bully, coerce and threaten more like). Allisbarry also reckons it’ll need 11-1.

https://twitter.com/edinburghsport/status/1262769017837641730?s=21

Hibs are a certain No.

One more out of 11 required to send them packing once and for all. Good luck, Ann!

[Mikey]

Hibs are a certain No.

One more out of 11 required to send them packing once and for all. Good luck, Ann!

I doubt it'll get as far as a vote. When she phones round it'll quickly become apparent that the clubs who flirt with relegation every season won't vote for 4 going down in a couple of years time.

If she calls Hamilton, St Mirren, Ross County and Dundee Utd first it'll save her wasting time calling the others. And she could include her own club in the list of those in danger of relegation (again) at the same time.

[Greenworld]

Hamilton , ross county, motherwell, dundee united, hibernian , st mirren all defo no
Not happening

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[coldingham hibs]

Hearts have played 30 games and won 4, yet they now think it’s fair that that they should play another 38 games to see if they can finish higher. No punishment at all for being bottom. Where is the fairness in that?.

[Heisenberg]

I doubt it'll get as far as a vote. When she phones round it'll quickly become apparent that the clubs who flirt with relegation every season won't vote for 4 going down in a couple of years time.

If she calls Hamilton, St Mirren, Ross County and Dundee Utd first it'll save her wasting time calling the others. And she could include her own club in the list of those in danger of relegation (again) at the same time.

I reckon it’ll get to a vote with backing from Partick/Stranraer or such like but then get slapped down with ease. Waste of everyone’s time.

[Jdawg]

Hibs are a certain No.

One more out of 11 required to send them packing once and for all. Good luck, Ann!

St Mirren. Game over!

[Jdawg]

They can’t even vote as a premiership club 😂😂😂.

[jacomo]

Until Hearts fans get bored asking Budge to take the SPFL to court which she does not want to do.




She was the one who threatened legal action in the first place, so it’s her fault.

[Waxy]

Hearts have played 30 games and won 4, yet they now think it’s fair that that they should play another 38 games to see if they can finish higher. No punishment at all for being bottom. Where is the fairness in that?.

Thats what everyone but hearts can see.
What has happened is the fairest unfair thing.
Keeping them up throws sporting merit out the window and penalises every other club.
Cant happen.
Theyve been unlucky for once but MUST swallow their medicine. If they dont they’ll go bust.

[hibeerealist]

Thats what everyone but hearts can see.
What has happened is the fairest unfair thing.
Keeping them up throws sporting merit out the window and penalises every other club.
Cant happen.
Theyve been unlucky for once but MUST swallow their medicine. If they dont they’ll go bust.

Hit the nail on the head there Waxy - MUST swallow their medicine, instead they squeal like pigs and blame everybody else for their relegation NOT demotion!

[jacomo]

Don’t worry everyone...

Working with her Famous efficiency and speed, Ann Budge promises to circulate a plan for reconstruction ‘by Friday’.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-ann-budge-finalise-new-league-reconstruction-plan-friday-2858647

She’s not spoken to all the other clubs yet to get their input, but she definitely will. Her plan will propose a 14 or maybe 16 team top flight (mere details).

If any fellow chairmen are still listening, she will threaten the possibility of legal action if she doesn’t get her way.

Bless...

[greenpaper55]

Don’t worry everyone...

Working with her Famous efficiency and speed, Ann Budge promises to circulate a plan for reconstruction ‘by Friday’.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-ann-budge-finalise-new-league-reconstruction-plan-friday-2858647

She’s not spoken to all the other clubs yet to get their input, but she definitely will. Her plan will propose a 14 or maybe 16 team top flight (mere details).

If any fellow chairmen are still listening, she will threaten the possibility of legal action if she doesn’t get her way.

Bless...

Looks like it's cobbled together on the back of a fag packet ! Utter shambles.

[JohnM1875]

Don’t worry everyone...

Working with her Famous efficiency and speed, Ann Budge promises to circulate a plan for reconstruction ‘by Friday’.

https://www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-ann-budge-finalise-new-league-reconstruction-plan-friday-2858647

She’s not spoken to all the other clubs yet to get their input, but she definitely will. Her plan will propose a 14 or maybe 16 team top flight (mere details).

If any fellow chairmen are still listening, she will threaten the possibility of legal action if she doesn’t get her way.

Bless...

Love how it's gone from 14 team to 'maybe even 16 teams' since their relegation has been confirmed. Pathetic.

[Gloucester Hibs]

Love how it's gone from 14 team to 'maybe even 16 teams' since their relegation has been confirmed. Pathetic.

Also the word “temporary” seems to have gone now too? Banderson also states it will require 11/12 votes to pass 🤔