NO to reconstruction

[Real Emerald]

Is that like in Doctor Who when the Doctor meets his previous self? Does it create a crack in the space-time continuum?

Nah, in this case it’s Doctor Budge and the unflushable clingons. 😂

[Ronniekirk]

The Premiership clubs need to pull the plug on this now or risk even more damage to the game. It’s bad enough the clamour by English to save Hearts but to now introduce old firm colt teams instead of the agreed pyramid system is just getting fans of all other clubs backs up now. Tom English is damaging Scottish football with his privileged position and his quite bizarre obsession and bias. Leeann and others maybe need to become a bit more vocal to get this stopped.

Agree it would now be good to know our Clubs view on all this if it’s dragging on past next week


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Brightside]

Are Hearts down yet?

[EI255]

This is getting silly now, as if it wasn’t before [emoji23]It's so silly it simply will not happen.

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[EI255]

Another change that won't happen because it needs 11 top league teams to back it. Why should Rangers and Celtic get colt teams in the league and not other clubs?

And so it drags on...........And there it lies, dead and buried.

Sent from my LG-H840 using Tapatalk

[04Sauzee]

Bonnyrigg Rose tweet

This is (at least) the 3rd attempt at this. We obviously have our own thoughts but interested to get a cross section of (twitter friendly) views from our own fans and those from other clubs on the proposal, bearing in mind there are 7 tiers in existence already in the pyramid.

[Caversham Green]

I thought "Rangers" wanted to get out of the Scottish leagues. Now they want two teams in them. F*****g idiots.

[04Sauzee]

Not that it will make much difference but there is a Twitter account called Fans against colts

@notocolts

Might be worth a follow as I'd imagine they may be pretty active over the next wee while

[Since452]

I thought "Rangers" wanted to get out of the Scottish leagues. Now they want two teams in them. F*****g idiots.

Aye but they'll be doing us all a favour leaving us their B teams when they leave for England. Roasters.

[Craig_in_Prague]

Been out of touch for a few days with the goings on... the maroon jobby still not flushed then?
WTF is going on?

[Waxy]

Are Hearts down yet?

They’ve been down for weeks. Not certain they realise.

[GreenCastle]

Money’s not the answer to sustain the lower league clubs. Maybe in an emergency because of this horrible pandemic, but i think it’s time Scottish football moves out of the dark ages. To many lower clubs are living of their history. It’s up to them to build there club up or unfortunately disappear into the lower leagues. The committee’s at Cowdenbeath, Albion Rovers etc need to work really hard with the local community to get their clubs thriving. Local businessmen sponsoring, builders helping to develop stadiums & building relationships with schools & colleges to get people along to watch on a Saturday. This is old school proper football, but these clubs can’t continue being classed as professional outfits just because of their status. The governing body should maybe work along with them, but also have to start raising the standards regarding stadiums & professionalism. There’s many junior & amateur clubs run better with adequate facilities also & community backing.

:top marks

This is something I've been saying for years - imagine a Spartans type facility in several parts of Scotland. Ok Spartans isn't perfect but adapt for local communities.

Improve infrastructure - the number of awful stadiums around Scotland neglected because money is spent on players.

Any more money brought in will probably be wasted on wages.

The way forward to build from bottom up. Having more Old Firm teams and monopoly is the WORST thing that can happen for the game.

Some of these proposals are like a local bowling club throwing about ideas - can they not just leave the leagues and have a proper analysis and strategy for the LONG TERM good of the whole of the game...grassroots...leagues..local clubs...national team...revenue streams etc.

Quick fixes to help Hearts or the Old Firm for 2 years or 5 years just isn't the way forward.

[Alfred E Newman]

Unless someone puts a stop to this nonsense Scottish Football is going to implode, and all because Hearts were in the wrong place when the league was halted. I was enjoying my football a couple of months ago but after the crap of the past few weeks I'm past caring and I'm sure won't be the only one.

[007]

Have we got a Hunasaurus? If so I'm adding.

Joining Fee - Bribe

[Joe6-2]

The game is bent if this gets carried, i would be finished with it.

Me too, I’ve just had enough of this shi*

[Box 17]

And what if Hibs, Motherwell or Aberdeen decide they want to play a Colts team in the new set up. Or is this only open to the Old Firm?

In the SPFL all clubs are equal, but some clubs are more equal than others.

[Haymaker]

And what if Hibs, Motherwell or Aberdeen decide they want to play a Colts team in the new set up. Or is this only open to the Old Firm?

In the SPFL all clubs are equal, but some clubs are more equal than others.

Ours go in at a low land league

[Chorley Hibee]

Utter lies. No way can Tynecastle hold over 20k 😉

I laughed at that perpetual myth too.

[GreenCastle]

It happened in the women’s game in Scotland. Teams having a development team / youth team that created a bottle neck in the 2nd highest league.

Basically meaning the 3rd or 4th placed team would then be promoted to the top league.

Other countries would be laughing even more at us and it’s a serious kick in the teeth to all the Scottish FA quality mark clubs who have invested for the future and clubs who have tried to build for the pyramid.

Like others say it this goes through I would be seriously considering my following of the leagues and those who run it.

[brog]

Not sure about other leagues, but I dont think the German Colt teams get past the 3rd or regional leagues

I'm opposed to the Colts idea unless it's open to every top flight team & that's unworkable. It does work pretty well in Portugal where they can't be promoted beyond 2nd tier.

[jacomo]

I thought "Rangers" wanted to get out of the Scottish leagues. Now they want two teams in them. F*****g idiots.


Is it not a Trojan horse?

The colt teams get established in the scottish league, and then the big teams try and force their move into the EPL.

[matty_f]

I'm opposed to the Colts idea unless it's open to every top flight team & that's unworkable. It does work pretty well in Portugal where they can't be promoted beyond 2nd tier.

Yeah it has to be across the board of it happens. No point giving two teams who already enjoy a massive advantage over everyone else a bigger boost.

That surely can't happen.

[WhileTheChief..]

The gap between the old firm and the rest could widen massively if this is allowed.

They could potentially have full stadiums every week, 4 more old firms getting prime billing on tv and more tv cash for them no doubt.

Give it a few years of them finishing top 2 in the championship and they’ll be wanting them in the Premier.

There’s nothing good about this idea at all. Bin it with Budge’s plan.

[Green Blood]

Everyone knows that I think this is a fait accompli and is a done deal. This is the SPFL driving this along with HMFC. This plan to have the Ugly Sisters B teams in the lower leagues is not Rangers plan as mentioned but is the SPFL's plan who have privately asked Rangers to put their name to it. Utterly shambolic, embarrassing and corrupt!

Wish now that Rangers call for an investigation was upheld as I now believe that the baddie here is Dungcaster along with Budge. Scottish football, worse than a laughing stock, a corrupt laughing stock.

All those on here that have said don't worry, so and so are against it etc etc are talking absolute pash! Its happened already

[Onion]

Is it not a Trojan horse?

The colt teams get established in the scottish league, and then the big teams try and force their move into the EPL.

:agree: That's exactly what they have in mind. But at this stage not a bad idea as it muddies the water for the Yams and an extra complication that will just get other clubs backs up. The more variations the SPFL receive for the reconstruction the less likely anything will be approved.

[ScottB]

How many proposals are we up to now? This is getting more embarrassing than Dundee’s missing vote.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

Results in the tunnock wafer cup would suggest they would not walk anything.


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Everyone knows that I think this is a fait accompli and is a done deal. This is the SPFL driving this along with HMFC. This plan to have the Ugly Sisters B teams in the lower leagues is not Rangers plan as mentioned but is the SPFL's plan who have privately asked Rangers to put their name to it. Utterly shambolic, embarrassing and corrupt!

Wish now that Rangers call for an investigation was upheld as I now believe that the baddie here is Dungcaster along with Budge. Scottish football, worse than a laughing stock, a corrupt laughing stock.

All those on here that have said don't worry, so and so are against it etc etc are talking absolute pash! Its happened already

No it hasn’t.

[Green Blood]

No it hasn’t.

Oh yes it has!!!!!

[04Sauzee]

Everyone knows that I think this is a fait accompli and is a done deal. This is the SPFL driving this along with HMFC. This plan to have the Ugly Sisters B teams in the lower leagues is not Rangers plan as mentioned but is the SPFL's plan who have privately asked Rangers to put their name to it. Utterly shambolic, embarrassing and corrupt!

Wish now that Rangers call for an investigation was upheld as I now believe that the baddie here is Dungcaster along with Budge. Scottish football, worse than a laughing stock, a corrupt laughing stock.

All those on here that have said don't worry, so and so are against it etc etc are talking absolute pash! Its happened already

The SPFL board have asked The Rangers to put their name to it? Think that's fantasy stuff.

[Lee Marvin]

Oh yes it has!!!!!

So all clubs have voted?

This proposal is far worse than budges for the top league teams. Corruption of the highest order is the only way this gets through. Even then, clubs will alienate their fans if they did so.

It wont get passed

[inglisavhibs]

No it hasn’t.
Can’ t happen without 11-1 SPL vote which is highly unlikely. Also many of the lower division clubs are agains5 the old firm colts being there. A wee question, do you really th8nk Hibs will vote for that?

[Green Blood]

The SPFL board have asked The Rangers to put their name to it? Think that's fantasy stuff.

Might be your fantasy, its my nightmare!

[Glory Lurker]

Mickey Mouse has a Scottish Football watch.

[KDY Hibs]

Oh yes it has!!!!!

I think its already happened too, absolute stitch up!

[lugz]

If this was to go through there would have to be a stipulation in there that the old firm teams have to stay in a certain division and can't be promoted like the Barcelona B team in spain.

[tamig]

Everyone knows that I think this is a fait accompli and is a done deal. This is the SPFL driving this along with HMFC. This plan to have the Ugly Sisters B teams in the lower leagues is not Rangers plan as mentioned but is the SPFL's plan who have privately asked Rangers to put their name to it. Utterly shambolic, embarrassing and corrupt!

Wish now that Rangers call for an investigation was upheld as I now believe that the baddie here is Dungcaster along with Budge. Scottish football, worse than a laughing stock, a corrupt laughing stock.

All those on here that have said don't worry, so and so are against it etc etc are talking absolute pash! Its happened already

Calm down for goodness sake. Hysterical nonsense. Nothing’s happened and I doubt it will.

[Numptie]

If the proposal was sent out on Tuesday then the clubs can have responded on the back of the Budge deal. That's why Doncaster was asking for other ideas. Hope Hibs said no to reconstruction this season, so this deal dies by Tuesday

[tamig]

Can’ t happen without 11-1 SPL vote which is highly unlikely. Also many of the lower division clubs are agains5 the old firm colts being there. A wee question, do you really th8nk Hibs will vote for that?

Green Blood says its already happened so we are all goosed. Forget the vote. Its done Green Blood said so. 😂

[inglisavhibs]

No it hasn’t.
Can’ t happen without 11-1 SPL vote which is highly unlikely. Also many of the lower division clubs are agains5 the old firm colts being there. A wee question, do you really th8nk Hibs will vote for that?

[Green Blood]

Calm down for goodness sake. Hysterical nonsense. Nothing’s happened and I doubt it will.

Nothing hysterical about it, however, this new proposal must mean that Budge's proposal has no further mileage. What must be apparent to all is that the one party that is still driving this is the SPFL! It is they that want reconstruction more than anyone.

[tamig]

Nothing hysterical about it, however, this new proposal must mean that Budge's proposal has no further mileage. What must be apparent to all is that the one party that is still driving this is the SPFL! It is they that want reconstruction more than anyone.

You’re being hysterical and coming out with some absolute pish.

[Jdawg]

Only recon I would be happy with is if the premiership stays at 12 and the remaining leagues reconstruct.

They could see which clubs can start in the championship and league 1 and reconstruct from there.

Don’t understand why a change to the number of teams in the premiership always has to be included in these proposals.

Why the hell do inverness get to come up when they were in a playoff position. That’s not on sporting merit.

[inglisavhibs]

Nothing hysterical about it, however, this new proposal must mean that Budge's proposal has no further mileage. What must be apparent to all is that the one party that is still driving this is the SPFL! It is they that want reconstruction more than anyone.
Absolute rubbish, the only ones who can force reconstruction are the clubs themselves. The clubs have been asked to respond by Tuesday. The new fixtures are due out in a couple of weeks so a decision has to be made soon.

[Green Blood]

You’re being hysterical and coming out with some absolute pish.

Yer an arse and doing a grand job at it, stick in! Don't mind your comments, what I don't like is the lack of any counter argument with any substance! Lets wait and see how it all pans out!

[007]

Everyone knows that I think this is a fait accompli and is a done deal. This is the SPFL driving this along with HMFC. This plan to have the Ugly Sisters B teams in the lower leagues is not Rangers plan as mentioned but is the SPFL's plan who have privately asked Rangers to put their name to it. Utterly shambolic, embarrassing and corrupt!

Wish now that Rangers call for an investigation was upheld as I now believe that the baddie here is Dungcaster along with Budge. Scottish football, worse than a laughing stock, a corrupt laughing stock.

All those on here that have said don't worry, so and so are against it etc etc are talking absolute pash! Its happened already

They no doubt started concocting this a few weeks ago, suddenly both Rangers and Celtic were backing reconstruction when I don't think they'd previously said anything whatsoever about it. Even when reconstruction was binned first time round, after 6 teams had said they didn't fancy because they didn't go round the table any further. All seems a bit sly and underhand to just produce this proposal out of the blue.

[Green Blood]

Absolute rubbish, the only ones who can force reconstruction are the clubs themselves. The clubs have been asked to respond by Tuesday. The new fixtures are due out in a couple of weeks so a decision has to be made soon.

I agree, the clubs decide, of course., but we have funny money kicking around that changes how they decide to vote. The SPFL are manipulating those clubs still to agree to reconstruction.

[Joe6-2]

They no doubt started concocting this a few weeks ago, suddenly both Rangers and Celtic were backing reconstruction when I don't think they'd previously said anything whatsoever about it. Even when reconstruction was binned first time round, after 6 teams had said they didn't fancy because they didn't go round the table any further. All seems a bit sly and underhand to just produce this proposal out of the blue.

Absolutely stinks, reconstruction binned, then resurrected for some reason? Stench!

[jgl07]

Is it not a Trojan horse?

The colt teams get established in the scottish league, and then the big teams try and force their move into the EPL.

Aye it's a disgrace.

Mickey Mouse League or what? If it happens, it's an admission that the only thing that matters about Scottish Football is Celtic and Sevco,

I will be finished with Scottish Football if this happens.

The groundswell was all to have Sevco admitted straight back to the SPL or the Championship a few years back and this was stopped by the supporters saying no. We need a similar response now.

[Heisenberg]

Absolutely stinks, reconstruction binned, then resurrected for some reason? Stench!

6 top flight clubs said they weren’t interested in permanent reconstruction. They’ve since tried to think of any kind of mental way around it and failed miserably. Hopefully it ends soon.

[007]

Is this the big thing Tom English was hinting at earlier and he's revealed it now before someone else does or are we getting even more p*** tomorrow?

[SMAXXA]

I agree, the clubs decide, of course., but we have funny money kicking around that changes how they decide to vote. The SPFL are manipulating those clubs still to agree to reconstruction.

I don’t think you will find a club in the land regardless of how they are financially that would describe 50k as funny money kicking about. I don’t agree with your view I don’t think there is anything in this other than the OF trying to take advantage of a situation for something they have pushed and failed for a number of years now. No way will this be voted in if it even gets as far as that I’d be confident of that.

Too much paranoia kicking about just now but with good cause granted. Let’s wait and see what happens

[GreenCastle]

What part of the Old Firm clubs paying the lower league clubs is ethical?

This would be a serious bribe ?!!

In Germany the top teams gave money to lower teams for testing and to help them resume the season but paying teams for several years so you can get another team into the league set up before others is just ridiculous.

[tamig]

Yer an arse and doing a grand job at it, stick in! Don't mind your comments, what I don't like is the lack of any counter argument with any substance! Lets wait and see how it all pans out!
So you making ludicrous claims such as the SPFL were driving this and putting Rangers name to it isn’t pish? And your claim that “it’s already happened” wasn’t hysteria? What’s “happened” anyway exactly? You don’t seem to have an understanding as to how the SPFL decision making works. As for substance - where’s the substance behind your ridiculous claims?

[KingPat4]

Nothing hysterical about it, however, this new proposal must mean that Budge's proposal has no further mileage. What must be apparent to all is that the one party that is still driving this is the SPFL! It is they that want reconstruction more than anyone.

The SPFL is the clubs, so who is actually driving this?

[CraigHibee]

Corrupt as **** if this goes through

[AFKA5814_Hibs]

I'm opposed to the Colts idea unless it's open to every top flight team & that's unworkable. It does work pretty well in Portugal where they can't be promoted beyond 2nd tier.

In Germany all the top teams have a II team. Its basically their under 23 side playing in the lower leagues. I watched Werder Bremen II play Dynamo Dresden a few years back in the 3rd division of the Bundesliga, about 5000 at the game. This was largely due to Dresden bringing a large away support.

Germany obviously have a bigger overall structure than we do and it's not just based on 2 teams. As you say it would have to be all the top sides and any colt sides should start from out out with the top leagues.

Just inserting Celtc and Huns colts sides into a league 2 is a non starter.

[Green Blood]

So you making ludicrous claims such as the SPFL were driving this and putting Rangers name to it isn’t pish? And your claim that “it’s already happened” wasn’t hysteria? What’s “happened” anyway exactly? You don’t seem to have an understanding as to how the SPFL decision making works. As for substance - where’s the substance behind your ridiculous claims?


It is not ludicrous to think that Neil Dungcaster wants to protect his job and Scottish Football's future if he feel's it is under threat, that's what he is paid to do, call the shots! The HMFC situation is a sideshow, they are not an important part of the jigsaw. I don't claim to understand the workings of the SPFL, what though I do understand is the blatant fact that the SPFL won't exist if Scottish football does not survive going forward. They/he have devised this alternative to generate more monies from Sky through more games that are west coast orientated.

Using my experience and observations, I could read how this was going to pan out and I stick with what I have said is that reconstruction will happen, what is it that you are saying? Are you saying it won't happen?

[Eyrie]

This will weaken Scottish football.

At the moment teams like Hamilton and St Johnstone have young players in their team competing in the top flight every week. In future, the Ugly Sisters will hoover up the best young talent so they can compete with each other to finish top of the middle tier, stifling the development of those players. Just read a post which pointed out that none of the youngsters who played for Sevco in the lower leagues made it.

Add in the farce of either colt team drawing an Ugly Sister in the cups and it's easy to see why this will be rejected.

The only reason to try to force it through for season 20/21 is because the proposal won't stand up to any scrutiny.

[Jdawg]

What part of the Old Firm clubs paying the lower league clubs is ethical?

This would be a serious bribe ?!!

In Germany the top teams gave money to lower teams for testing and to help them resume the season but paying teams for several years so you can get another team into the league set up before others is just ridiculous.

Correct. Financial incentive for someone to vote a certain way = bribe.

[CropleyWasGod]

It is not ludicrous to think that Neil Dungcaster wants to protect his job and Scottish Football's future if he feel's it is under threat, that's what he is paid to do, call the shots! The HMFC situation is a sideshow, they are not an important part of the jigsaw. I don't claim to understand the workings of the SPFL, what though I do understand is the blatant fact that the SPFL won't exist if Scottish football does not survive going forward. They/he have devised this alternative to generate more monies from Sky through more games that are west coast orientated.

Using my experience and observations, I could read how this was going to pan out and I stick with what I have said is that reconstruction will happen, what is it that you are saying? Are you saying it won't happen?

Are you saying that there is another Sky deal in the offing (separate from the current Premiership one) that covers the lower leagues?

[kaimendhibs]

Ive got home and away season tickets. If the gunts survive, they will lie in a drawer unused. (I know re away tickets btw)

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[PolmontHibby]

Double the Old Firm double the bigotry.

In what way is this a way forward for Scottish Football or indeed wider society.

[JimBHibees]

Not a chance this is getting voted through by top league.

[Green Blood]

Are you saying that there is another Sky deal in the offing (separate from the current Premiership one) that covers the lower leagues?


In these uncertain times, businesses/ commercial bodies need to sell themselves to the best of their ability and to the highest bidder. A well known adage is that 80% of turnover is driven by 20% of your customers. Sky probably budget using this, it is Celtic/Rangers that matter, the remainder just make up the numbers. In todays world, all bets are off. Whatever deals have been agreed can be re-negotiated, Sky hold all the aces, they can make make Dungcaster dance to their tune!

[CropleyWasGod]

In these uncertain times, businesses/ commercial bodies need to sell themselves to the best of their ability and to the highest bidder. A well known adage is that 80% of turnover is driven by 20% of your customers. Sky probably budget using this, it is Celtic/Rangers that matter, the remainder just make up the numbers. In todays world, all bets are off. Whatever deals have been agreed can be re-negotiated, Sky hold all the aces, they can make make Dungcaster dance to their tune!

And the answer to the question? 😉

[Green Blood]

In these uncertain times, businesses/ commercial bodies need to sell themselves to the best of their ability and to the highest bidder. A well known adage is that 80% of turnover is driven by 20% of your customers. Sky probably budget using this, it is Celtic/Rangers that matter, the remainder just make up the numbers. In todays world, all bets are off. Whatever deals have been agreed can be re-negotiated, Sky hold all the aces, they can make make Dungcaster dance to their tune!


So, all bets are off!

[one day maybe...]

Money’s not the answer to sustain the lower league clubs. Maybe in an emergency because of this horrible pandemic, but i think it’s time Scottish football moves out of the dark ages. To many lower clubs are living of their history. It’s up to them to build there club up or unfortunately disappear into the lower leagues. The committee’s at Cowdenbeath, Albion Rovers etc need to work really hard with the local community to get their clubs thriving. Local businessmen sponsoring, builders helping to develop stadiums & building relationships with schools & colleges to get people along to watch on a Saturday. This is old school proper football, but these clubs can’t continue being classed as professional outfits just because of their status. The governing body should maybe work along with them, but also have to start raising the standards regarding stadiums & professionalism. There’s many junior & amateur clubs run better with adequate facilities also & community backing.

Absolutely correct. The regionalisation of leagues helping to cut unsustainable costs would help. A proportion of the prize money that Scotland & Scotland's teams whom progress in Europe and world tournaments, should be invested in affordable all weather facilities. Both indoor and out door across Aberdeen, Peterhead, Elgin, Dundee, Livingston, inverness, Wick, Fort William, Stirling, Perth, Edinburgh, Glasgow, Hawick, Dumfries and anywhere else like the islands of Orkney or Stornoway These facilities should be run by the money raised through SFA. Exempt from gas, electric, council rates etc, in fact any charges councils wish to apply, healthier children will benefit society in the longer term.
Will never happen though

[tamig]

It is not ludicrous to think that Neil Dungcaster wants to protect his job and Scottish Football's future if he feel's it is under threat, that's what he is paid to do, call the shots! The HMFC situation is a sideshow, they are not an important part of the jigsaw. I don't claim to understand the workings of the SPFL, what though I do understand is the blatant fact that the SPFL won't exist if Scottish football does not survive going forward. They/he have devised this alternative to generate more monies from Sky through more games that are west coast orientated.

Using my experience and observations, I could read how this was going to pan out and I stick with what I have said is that reconstruction will happen, what is it that you are saying? Are you saying it won't happen?
I don’t think it will happen. Time is way too tight now. Not one proposal submitted so far has won anywhere near the required level of support to get through. If reconstruction does happen it will be down to some clubs not being able to play in the lower leagues. The Premiership will not be affected by that. And are you now suggesting that Sky are behind this OF B team proposal so they can get some second string OF games into the mix?

[Carheenlea]

I think Budge`s proposal was more favourable than this abomination from Rangers. No danger will this find enough support throughout the Scottish game. It will surely be laughed out the room before Tuesday.

[Green Blood]

I don’t think it will happen. Time is way too tight now. Not one proposal submitted so far has won anywhere near the required level of support to get through. If reconstruction does happen it will be down to some clubs not being able to play in the lower leagues. The Premiership will not be affected by that. And are you now suggesting that Sky are behind this OF B team proposal so they can get some second string OF games into the mix?

I hope you are right Tamig, I do! It is all about survival now so normal time scales don't matter. Yes, Sky call the shots, however the proposal is all the SPFL's as they have to look after the best interests of Scottish Football! The logistics don't matter, the money on offer does!

[Since452]

Can't see anything changing in terms of league set up. All pie in the sky. It will more than likely be as is with Hearts relegated etc.

[FilipinoHibs]

In the premier league only those that think they would always finish top 6 would vote for it. Guaranteed games versus old firm. More competition and other attractive games. That is only old firm and Aberdeen. Already Aberdeen don't want 5 years of top 14.

For the other teams they have a chance of being in bottom 8. That would mean less games against old firm and the other top six sides. That means less income. Less prize money which is again less income. For teams safely in 7th or 8th spot, lots of meaningless games. Finally, a bigger chance of being relegated.
Why the latest Budge plan will fail.

[tamig]

I hope you are right Tamig, I do! It is all about survival now so normal time scales don't matter. Yes, Sky call the shots, however the proposal is all the SPFL's as they have to look after the best interests of Scottish Football! The logistics don't matter, the money on offer does!

The clock is ticking towards 1st August now though. Time is off the essence if we’re going to hit that date. We can’t let this drag on any longer and a line has to be drawn. And that August date has been laid down by Sky so it won’t drag on much more.

[tomf]

I haven't noted it mentioned anywhere but I feel that teams should have at least one full season’s notice of any proposed change. This is vital because, had teams played last season with the knowledge that (for instance) there was going to be no relegation from the SPL and that two teams were going to be going into the SPL from the Championship etc then a multitude of games in all the divisions may have been played entirely differently. The current situation reeks of having lost two one and then deciding it should be best of five. We need to put a stop to this farce as soon as possible. Hearts can patently afford to spend a season out of the SPL and they will no doubt come back stronger although one dreads to think what chaos they might cause if they found themselves in a relegation position in the future.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

I blame hearts for all of this

Multiple votes and league reconstruction proposals have failed to win the required support

Yet they refuse to accept the democratic progress of this member organisation

This has opened the door for the old firm to attempt to tighten their grip on Scottish football even further

preposterous Idea yet here we are, on the brink of another delay to FINALLY putting this self-centred exercise to bed

What’s to stop all the top flight clubs (no hearts, not you) in submitting a proposal to start their colt teams in the lower leagues

SPFL/Doncaster (whether he works for us The clubs or not) needs to grow a spine and say “enoughs enough”, we need the leagues restarted ASAP and these delays aren’t helping anyone

[Jim44]

Maybe their cunning plan is to come out continually with more and more bizarre proposals so that everybody’s mindset is that reconstruction is definitely the name of the game and eventually clubs will be wearied, coerced and tricked into accepting the least offensive one, forgetting that no reconstruction at all was an option. :greengrin

[Sammy7nil]

Maybe their cunning plan is to come out continually with more and more bizarre proposals so that everybody’s mindset is that reconstruction is definitely the name of the game and eventually clubs will be wearied, coerced and tricked into accepting the least offensive one, forgetting that no reconstruction at all was an option. :greengrin

I think we are already there it seems to be whatever it takes to keep Hearts in the top league.

[green day]

Maybe their cunning plan is to come out continually with more and more bizarre proposals so that everybody’s mindset is that reconstruction is definitely the name of the game and eventually clubs will be wearied, coerced and tricked into accepting the least offensive one, forgetting that no reconstruction at all was an option. :greengrin

Aldo on the PM board said that all Prem clubs were asked if they had a reconstruction plan - this just happens to be the Rangers one, hence the likes of English writes a story about it.

Unsurprisingly, there is no BBC exclusive story that says "9 clubs dont want any form of reconstruction" as it doesnt fit with the "this is unfair on Hearts" narrative.

I think that Doncaster is playing this with a straight bat - offering up all stakeholders with a chance of punting a plan, then sending it all down the toilet when its clear that (for the moment) none of them has enough general support to go to the next stage.

I dont buy any of the conspiracy theories.

[Slateford Hibee]

Aldo on the PM board said that all Prem clubs were asked if they had a reconstruction plan - this just happens to be the Rangers one, hence the likes of English writes a story about it.

Unsurprisingly, there is no BBC exclusive story that says "9 clubs dont want any form of reconstruction" as it doesnt fit with the "this is unfair on Hearts" narrative.



I think that Doncaster is playing this with a straight bat - offering up all stakeholders with a chance of punting a plan, then sending it all down the toilet when its clear that (for the moment) none of them has enough general support to go to the next stage.

I dont buy any of the conspiracy theories.

Agree with your thoughts.

[GreenCastle]

Moving forward you do have to question if this type of close season is allowed to happen again.

You would think a minimum 1 seasons notice would be required for any league changes.

A cut off date agreed so fans, players, sponsors know what is ahead for any proposals for the future to be submitted.

But ideally a plan with a proper rationale that majority of Scottish football can back and stop all the petty fallouts with statements we have seen in last few weeks.

I know people might say this is different as we had games left - then ok..we’ll make sure if this was to happen again everyone is clear what the outcome would be. Hearts bottom = relegated. Clubs would then know what they are signing up for.

I’m not the biggest fan of the set up / leadership of the game here - some parts they have handled well but other parts just leave them open for ridicule. The worst part is you feel like they do make it up as they go along which looses the minimal trust fans, players and possible sponsors have of the set up.

Imagine being a sponsor right now trying to get involved - you will stay well clear.

Fans of all clubs split as we have had the accusations from Rangers and this nonsense from Hearts and the Dundee vote. Some fans aren’t buying tickets because the uncertainty.

Players haven’t a clue what league or who they are playing.

The last few weeks has exposed more flaws of the game in Scotland but my point is it’s also stopped so far these ridiculous attempts to change the landscape - but damage has been done and they need to find a way to protect the brand better to avoid a future repeat of this saga.

[duffers]

Something that’s not really been mentioned is about how this new reconstruction is investing in the teams struggling financially down the bottom.

Doing a quick bit of maths, if a team was to get a 16th of the share of the 250k, 6k for 200 tickets x2, and 2k for streaming, this would only work out at £23,625.20 a year. However these games wouldn’t be additional games, they would be replacing playing teams for a second time. I’m sure there is probably a couple of teams in the current 3rd division that has been known to take 200 fans to away games, so instead of playing them twice, you play them once, which will effectively cancel out the additional 6k in tickets sold.

My calculations may be wrong, but the proposals made from budge with some bribing from a benefactor to the tune of 50k each didn’t sway the bottom leagues in voting for reconstruction, I’m not sure an extra 17k for an even worse proposal from Rangers is going to change there mind.

And all this before you consider that coves promotion has been scrapped, 4 teams have effectively been relegated to the bottom league, teams in the highland / lowland league who have been trying to get into the leagues are just pushed to the side, all other PL clubs not even being asked if they want to be involved.

No danger this proposal will be voted for .

[Heisenberg]

This is all just a waste of time, none of these proposals have had anywhere near enough backing to go to a vote. The SPFL need to start setting some deadlines so we can either get something sorted or move on and leave the leagues as they are for next season.

[duffers]

Additionally, another thought I have just had, but what if every team wanted a colts team in the highland / lowland league, then next season, 2 teams are promoted and want entry. And so on. In 5 years time we could have 20 colts teams playing between the 2nd, lowland and highland leagues

[Not In The Know]

How a bout this for a league reconstruction plan.

We start with two leagues of 20. Each week the clubs drawn against each other have to come up with a reconstruction plan. The other clubs vote on it and 3 points go to the club with the most votes. Near the end of the season we split the league with 5 games to go and the top half vote on restructuring the Scottish Cup and the bottom half the Bet Fred cup.

[Bristolhibby]

How a bout this for a league reconstruction plan.

We start with two leagues of 20. Each week the clubs drawn against each other have to come up with a reconstruction plan. The other clubs vote on it and 3 points go to the club with the most votes. Near the end of the season we split the league with 5 games to go and the top half vote on restructuring the Scottish Cup and the bottom half the Bet Fred cup.

It will end up a bit like the Rick & Mitty “Plumbus” explination.

https://youtu.be/eMJk4y9NGvE

J

[GreenCastle]

Double the Old Firm double the bigotry.

In what way is this a way forward for Scottish Football or indeed wider society.

Simply put but so true.

If they didn’t have all the extra nonsense, cared about other Scottish clubs and actually produced a decent amount of players for other clubs / Scotland national team you could maybe understand.

But they don’t and the recent statements / false accusations alone by Rangers should see this binned.

[Waxy]

I hope this isnt going to be like this from now on. Clubs firing in reconstruction proposals every season.
Might be a good idea to change the rules regarding reconstruction proposals after all this.

[Clarence]

This is getting like Brexit. They need to accept the vote and get the restart bloody done.

[Clarence]

There’s nothing wrong with the structure of the leagues. They’ve actually been pretty entertaining ever since Rangers were defunct and The Rangers had to come up the leagues.

[GreenCastle]

Looking at kickback - some totally against it but others cuddling up to Rangers again so they can try stay in the top league at all costs.

Again shows it’s not about the greater good for Scottish football but clubs own self interest. Just like Hearts own nonsense proposal.

Colt teams are all about the bigger clubs own self interest.

I still think nothing will change - Hearts relegated which has been confirmed - Top 12 league and no colts teams.

We will then see the season played behind closed doors till new year with fans using virtual season tickets to watch games.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Looking at kickback - some totally against it but others cuddling up to Rangers again so they can try stay in the top league at all costs.

Again shows it’s not about the greater good for Scottish football but clubs own self interest. Just like Hearts own nonsense proposal.

Colt teams are all about the bigger clubs own self interest.

I still think nothing will change - Hearts relegated which has been confirmed - Top 12 league and no colts teams.

We will then see the season played behind closed doors till new year with fans using virtual season tickets to watch games.

A dying animal will do anything to survive

But the diet Huns cuddling up to the full fat Huns is no real surprise

[Mikey]

I think that Doncaster is playing this with a straight bat - offering up all stakeholders with a chance of punting a plan, then sending it all down the toilet when its clear that (for the moment) none of them has enough general support to go to the next stage.

I dont buy any of the conspiracy theories.

Yep, that's my take on it too.

As I mentioned a few pages back, I hope a club puts forward a proposal that we just get on with it and don't consider reconstruction until 21/22 at the earliest. That would only need a 9-3 vote and should put an end to it.

[WestStandMoaner]

Looking at kickback - some totally against it but others cuddling up to Rangers again so they can try stay in the top league at all costs.

Again shows it’s not about the greater good for Scottish football but clubs own self interest. Just like Hearts own nonsense proposal.

Colt teams are all about the bigger clubs own self interest.

I still think nothing will change - Hearts relegated which has been confirmed - Top 12 league and no colts teams.

We will then see the season played behind closed doors till new year with fans using virtual season tickets to watch games.

Spot on self interest is what's going on here. The problem I have is I and three other family members have our money ready to buy season tickets. We have all decided we are not going to buy them if the league is reconstructed this season to 14. A split after 26 games in the stumbling block for us, also I cannot understand why this is even on the table this is not priority. Doncaster needs to grow a pair and bring this matter to an end this week.

[Duke of Currie]

I dont have a problem with reconstruction providing it is well thought through and is beneficial to Scottish football and implemented in a sensible timeline.
My preference is for everything to be put on a table and considered on the benefits to the Scottish game similar to the McLeish report.
Get everyone to put their ideas into the mix and have someone independent propose what is the best approach for the game. This would include size of leagues , number of senior clubs which is sustainable from the commercial revenues derived from the game , summer football , colt teams et al.
Get all the stakeholders to feed into this , clubs , fans , sponsors , SPFL , SFA and TV companies and have something agreed in place in advance of the next tender for the Scottish tv rights. That way everybody knows what they are buying into , clubs can budget and shape their squads accordingly , fans know what they are paying their season tickets for , tv companies and sponsors can tender accordingly and lets say colt teams were an option , clubs can enter them into the lowest level of the pyramid and they can work their way up the structure accordingly.
Rushing decisions will only benefit the wealthy at the expense of the many.

[GreenCastle]

Spot on self interest is what's going on here. The problem I have is I and three other family members have our money ready to buy season tickets. We have all decided we are not going to buy them if the league is reconstructed this season to 14. A split after 26 games in the stumbling block for us, also I cannot understand why this is even on the table this is not priority. Doncaster needs to grow a pair and bring this matter to an end this week.

I would expect this week / max 2 weeks for this to be concluded.

Hearts for example need to plan for the Championship. Players with relegation clauses. They currently don’t have a manager as he hasn’t got a contract. If he comes back to Scotland he needs to be in quarantine for 2 weeks.

Hibs resume training on 15th June. We will also need to know fixtures so clubs can plan ahead and plans to be made about broadcasting games behind closed doors.

[MacGruber]

Get the reconstruction proposal in Hibs.

* 14-14-18
* Dundee & Ayr promoted from Championship
* Kelty & Brora added to bottom tier
* Hibs and St Mirren colts in L2
* Other teams can apply for colt membership but only from the following season and starting from grassroots 4 a-side with the mini pop up goals building up through 7, 9 then 11 a-side on full size pitches.
* Criteria for future promotion to top league includes no colts other than Hibs and/or St Mirren, no plastic pitches and full sized UEFA compliant pitches

Get it submitted for feedback and get it to the vote

[Greenworld]

Is it not a Trojan horse?

The colt teams get established in the scottish league, and then the big teams try and force their move into the EPL.Agree with This and other people are wise to this blatantly obvious move.
Neil Doncaster has lost control Hearts have got what they wanted an all out war with clubs all wanting a shout at what they perceive to be right a complete shambles

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[Greenworld]

Green Blood says its already happened so we are all goosed. Forget the vote. Its done Green Blood said so. [emoji23]Kdy and Green blood backing each other up [emoji23][emoji23] come on lads you'll need to do better.


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[Greenworld]

There’s nothing wrong with the structure of the leagues. They’ve actually been pretty entertaining ever since Rangers were defunct and The Rangers had to come up the leagues.Being saying this for ages the last few seasons have been good entertainment

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[lucky]

I think there is merit in the Rangers proposal, it brings additional cash into the game but as it’s going to take time to organise so it should for 21/22 season.

[Hibby70]

This is getting like Brexit. They need to accept the vote and get the restart bloody done.

Get Hearxit Done.

[SMAXXA]

I think there is merit in the Rangers proposal, it brings additional cash into the game but as it’s going to take time to organise so it should for 21/22 season.

Not for me it will stifle the progress of teams like Bonnyrigg. EK etx as will pretty much make it more difficult for them to break into the leagues. Yes it will give lower league clubs some extra cash but it doesn’t benefit the pyramid imo

[SMAXXA]

Get Hearxit Done.

Isn’t it a Hard Done Hearxit

[Greenworld]

Its the fans of all clubs that is being treated with contempt in my opinion. Utter silence from the Spfl on what the viewpoint was from the clubs on Hearts proposal!
I know they may now have to bring together all the reasons clubs are giving but some kind of indication can be given this is poor fromThe Spfl.
You cannot please everyone and looking in that seems to be the current desire, will never happen!
Let's move on if Hearts genuinely want to take court action let them , but let them be aware they will have to face whatever penalties are available for doing so. Hearts cannot continue to take this stance it is stopping the fair trading of 41 other clubs .


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[neil7908]

Time to put in our own proposal - any incidents of sectarian chanting met with automatic points deduction. UEFA style financial fair play rules - you can only spend what you honestly make - no mysterious outside investment allowed. No plastic pitches.

[Sioux]

Its the fans of all clubs that is being treated with contempt in my opinion. Utter silence from the Spfl on what the viewpoint was from the clubs on Hearts proposal!
I know they may now have to bring together all the reasons clubs are giving but some kind of indication can be given this is poor fromThe Spfl.
You cannot please everyone and looking in that seems to be the current desire, will never happen!
Let's move on if Hearts genuinely want to take court action let them , but let them be aware they will have to face whatever penalties are available for doing so. Hearts cannot continue to take this stance it is stopping the fair trading of 41 other clubs .


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Aye right! Remember Dundeegate ?

Its up to the individual clubs to decide of they want to go blabbing to the press.

The appetite for statements has gone mad.

[Waxy]

I think there is merit in the Rangers proposal, it brings additional cash into the game but as it’s going to take time to organise so it should for 21/22 season.

Imo we have to be careful what we sell and who we sell it to.
Cant always find merit in money.Sometimes it’s best to tell them to keep their cash. The motives here are poor.

[CropleyWasGod]

Its the fans of all clubs that is being treated with contempt in my opinion. Utter silence from the Spfl on what the viewpoint was from the clubs on Hearts proposal!
I know they may now have to bring together all the reasons clubs are giving but some kind of indication can be given this is poor fromThe Spfl.
You cannot please everyone and looking in that seems to be the current desire, will never happen!
Let's move on if Hearts genuinely want to take court action let them , but let them be aware they will have to face whatever penalties are available for doing so. Hearts cannot continue to take this stance it is stopping the fair trading of 41 other clubs .


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IIRC, the deadline for "views" was 5pm last night. That's hardly time enough to collate those views, summarise them and come to a reasonable consensus, let alone issue a statement.

[weecounty hibby]

What happens when the tarts proposal gets binned, do we then none onto the Hun proposal and if that gets binned the next proposal from say celtic? Then one from Hibs? Etc. This is a farce caused completely by the tarts due to their over inflated sense if importance. If they had accepted relegation and registered their objection like PTFC and just got on with it we would have the fixtures out for next season

[marinello59]

What happens when the tarts proposal gets binned, do we then none onto the Hun proposal and if that gets binned the next proposal from say celtic? Then one from Hibs? Etc. This is a farce caused completely by the tarts due to their over inflated sense if importance. If they had accepted relegation and registered their objection like PTFC and just got on with it we would have the fixtures out for next season

Surely the Huns proposal was just their response to what would it take for your club to accept reconstruction. So effectively another nail in the coffin for Budge’s scheme. It might be something the clubs will be discussing over the coming season but it won’t be happening any time soon.

[mjhibby]

I would expect this week / max 2 weeks for this to be concluded.

Hearts for example need to plan for the Championship. Players with relegation clauses. They currently don’t have a manager as he hasn’t got a contract. If he comes back to Scotland he needs to be in quarantine for 2 weeks.

Hibs resume training on 15th June. We will also need to know fixtures so clubs can plan ahead and plans to be made about broadcasting games behind closed doors.

I think even a lot of hertz fans are now fed up with this. They realise it’s unlikely they will be back in the premier league and just want to get on with it. Only the totally blinkered expect them to be in the premiership. The colts nonsense will infuriate loads of clubs so is just stirring.

[Kojock]

Surely the Huns proposal was just their response to what would it take for your club to accept reconstruction. So effectively another nail in the coffin for Budge’s scheme. It might be something the clubs will be discussing over the coming season but it won’t be happening any time soon.

That's my take on it as well. Doncaster asked each individual club what would make reconstruction more palatable for them. Sevco have come up with the Colts idea and Tenglish has jumped on the story. I would imagine a few other clubs put forward their own thoughts/ proposals but Tenglish won't write an article on them.

[Irish_Steve]

In these uncertain times, businesses/ commercial bodies need to sell themselves to the best of their ability and to the highest bidder. A well known adage is that 80% of turnover is driven by 20% of your customers. Sky probably budget using this, it is Celtic/Rangers that matter, the remainder just make up the numbers. In todays world, all bets are off. Whatever deals have been agreed can be re-negotiated, Sky hold all the aces, they can make make Dungcaster dance to their tune!


Hmmm, the only place I have seen Neil Doncaster described as "Dungcaster" is on Brokeback. I think you've blown your cover lol

[Irish_Steve]

Get Hearxit Done.

Surely it's Expelxit???

[Gmack7]

There’s nothing wrong with the structure of the leagues. They’ve actually been pretty entertaining ever since Rangers were defunct and The Rangers had to come up the leagues.

Bang on. the split isn't ideal but its clearly the best option, the problem is we don't have the perceived biggest clubs in the top league, For Scottish footballs sake and commercially it would be better if Hertz(not next season as the absolutely deserve to go down)and Dundee were in the 12 with maybe Livingston and Hamilton/Ross county in the championship

[Lago]

Frankly the one reconstruction plan the SPFL should be working on is to facilitate a move out of Scottish football by the Glasgow 2. Be it to England or a European league, until that happens nothing will change & the same arguments will come round repeatedly year on year.
The move shouldn't be rushed in anyway but planned over say a 5 year period giving all clubs time to plan & adapt to the new order.

[marinello59]

Frankly the one reconstruction plan the SPFL should be working on is to facilitate a move out of Scottish football by the Glasgow 2. Be it to England or a European league, until that happens nothing will change & the same arguments will come round repeatedly year on year.
The move shouldn't be rushed in anyway but planned over say a 5 year period giving all clubs time to plan & adapt to the new order.

I have always been baffled by this idea. You don’t make your league stronger by shipping the two strongest teams out. And how could any team who won the league call themselves Scottish Champions if the top two teams did not take part in the competition.
They might be ugly but we are stuck with them unfortunately.

[Crab apple]

Six lower league clubs have now publicly rejected Cludgie's reconstruction plan. Forfar being the latest.

[04Sauzee]

Six lower league clubs have now publicly rejected Cludgie's reconstruction plan. Forfar being the latest.

Think it's safe to say that proposal is dead. Now it's just about the The Rangers proposal. Will this need to be put to clubs? Will The Rangers be given a week to put forward a detailed proposal? Then another week for clubs to read thew proposal? I coukd we still be in limbo for another 2 weeks maybe longer?

[Spike Mandela]

There are some decent reconstruction ideas out there. These need refined and thought through over time.

The issue for reconstruction now that will scupper all attempts are surely Hearts and a top league of 14.

No matter what proposals you put forward, if they include a top league of 14, which all the proposals from the Hearts/Rangers/ICT cabal do, these will surely not get the required support of Premiership clubs. It is such a bad league composition that clubs of similar stature would surely not vote for it. Even Hearts admit as such by the fact they wanted it to be temporary for one year.

I can think of no incentive for clubs who are likely to be seventh in early February to vote for this other than benevelance towards Hearts which is in short supply due to the apalling way they have behaved in this whole farce.

[007]

Its the fans of all clubs that is being treated with contempt in my opinion. Utter silence from the Spfl on what the viewpoint was from the clubs on Hearts proposal!
I know they may now have to bring together all the reasons clubs are giving but some kind of indication can be given this is poor fromThe Spfl.
You cannot please everyone and looking in that seems to be the current desire, will never happen!
Let's move on if Hearts genuinely want to take court action let them , but let them be aware they will have to face whatever penalties are available for doing so. Hearts cannot continue to take this stance it is stopping the fair trading of 41 other clubs .


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My view is that splitting the league after 26 games is far too early as it creates a huge risk of meaningless games for clubs not battling relegation or at the top. Just missing out on top 6 most likely kills your season and we are one of the more likely teams to find ourselves in that situation.

Ann Budge herself acknowledged that and her suggested solution of a playoff between teams in the opposite sides of the split us a terrible idea. The team in 8th could snatch the last European place from a team that has been miles better throughout the season, both before the split and after. Totally unfair that one team could play 28 of its 40 games (that's 70%) against the weaker teams and qualify for Europe. Playoffs for teams in the top "half" also does not help potential fixture congestion that Budge said going from 38 league games to 36 helped.

Hopefully Hibs put something like the above forward as their issues, a season with meaningless games could have a huge impact on future season ticket sales, particularly as the split would happen at the time they go on sale. The only way to overcome these issues is keeping the league as 12 or making it 16 or 18 and playing teams twice (which is a non starter).

[Greenworld]

Aye right! Remember Dundeegate ?

Its up to the individual clubs to decide of they want to go blabbing to the press.

The appetite for statements has gone mad.An indication not a statement

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[Green Blood]

Hmmm, the only place I have seen Neil Doncaster described as "Dungcaster" is on Brokeback. I think you've blown your cover lol

Behave now, I am from a long line of Hibbies, grew up 5 mins from the ground!

[Col2]

Said it numerous times - the 6/8 split is not a good solution and devalues the quality of the competition. Signing up for a season ticket when almost 40% of the games you have no idea who you will be playing from late Jan is rubbish.

If by Xmas you have only say 5 games to make the top 6 and only outside chance it will impact the Jan transfer window. Why would you bother going the extra mile to then play 14 meaningless games.

And for us we are right on the cusp of 5th-7th even if we have aspirations higher.

[EI255]

Think it's safe to say that proposal is dead. Now it's just about the The Rangers proposal. Will this need to be put to clubs? Will The Rangers be given a week to put forward a detailed proposal? Then another week for clubs to read thew proposal? I coukd we still be in limbo for another 2 weeks maybe longer?It'll never work. Why would the Bad Firm's rivals vote in favour of this stupid reserve team idea when it only seeks to benefit the two ugly sisters? Hibs, Aberdeen, Dundee United etc don't need petty OF payouts just so they can benefit. As it stands, it'll get even fewer votes than Queen Sludge's 'master plan'. Both deals ain't worth a sook. Full stop.

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[Greenworld]

IIRC, the deadline for "views" was 5pm last night. That's hardly time enough to collate those views, summarise them and come to a reasonable consensus, let alone issue a statement.I'm looking for a Synopsis if you like since this is turning into a noval

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[007]

I think even a lot of hertz fans are now fed up with this. They realise it’s unlikely they will be back in the premier league and just want to get on with it. Only the totally blinkered expect them to be in the premiership. The colts nonsense will infuriate loads of clubs so is just stirring.

For Hearts this Rangers' proposal is like when you've been chatting up a lassie in a nightclub, you've laid all the groundwork then your mate barges in trying to pull her instead (except I suppose in this case you'd be getting a **** too). 😄

[Ronniekirk]

So are The Rangers now doing Hearts bidding for them to take Budge our limelight ?


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[Waxy]

For Hearts this Rangers' proposal is like when you've been chatting up a lassie in a nightclub, you've laid all the groundwork then your mate barges in trying to pull her instead (except I suppose in this case you'd be getting a **** too). ��
Your mate who's bigger, got more money and pals and hasn't just been sacked?

[Clarence]

Get Hearxit Done.

Let’s get #Hearxit trending!

[007]

Let’s get #Hearxit trending!

Squexit for the squealers.🐷🐖🐽

[Peevemor]

The Rangers plan won't even get as far as a vote. The SPFL will pronounce the matter of immediate reconstruction closed during the coming week and publish the Premiership fixture list shortly thereafter.

End of story.

[Mikey]

The Rangers plan won't even get as far as a vote. The SPFL will pronounce the matter of immediate reconstruction closed during the coming week and publish the Premiership fixture list shortly thereafter.

End of story.

And Neil Doncaster will have done a fine job of covering every angle to stop Hearts going to court. It's just a shame it's taken so long.

And once that's done, they'll be doon for sure :greengrin

:cheerio:

[Lago]

I have always been baffled by this idea. You don’t make your league stronger by shipping the two strongest teams out. And how could any team who won the league call themselves Scottish Champions if the top two teams did not take part in the competition.
They might be ugly but we are stuck with them unfortunately.

OK fair point & for what it's worth I agree with you, but equally let's nail the continual complaints about "uneven playing fields", "uneven distribution of money", "their income makes true competition impossible". So if we accept they're here to stay accept all other clubs are playing for 3rd or 4th place in the league with hopefully a good cup run to add spice to the main dish, but stop moaning about the OF, it is what it is.

[JohnMcM]

And Neil Doncaster will have done a fine job of covering every angle to stop Hearts going to court. It's just a shame it's taken so long.

And once that's done, they'll be doon for sure :greengrin

:cheerio:

I suggested in an earlier post I thought he was "disarming" Budge's legal challenge (or words to that effect). I've found myself in similar positions to his now in a previous life. For me it was always a matter of leading them along a long corridor closing all the doors behind them until they reach the wall at the end of the corridor.

I still feel he has done the right thing in all this for the right reasons. I hope I'm not proven to be too trusting.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm looking for a Synopsis if you like since this is turning into a noval

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A synopsis? There's a noval idea.

My point still stands. It's too soon.

[JimBHibees]

Neil McCann on sportsound. Hearts, Patrick Thistle and Stranraer haven't had a sporting chance to get out of relegation.

You mean apart from the 30 odd games already played in the season? Absolutely clueless.

[Box 17]

Big clubs being able to field B teams in the senior league may have merit, but it's a non-starter if it's only open to the Old Firm.

[Bostonhibby]

Neil McCann on sportsound. Hearts, Patrick Thistle and Stranraer haven't had a sporting chance to get out of relegation.

You mean apart from the 30 odd games already played in the season? Absolutely clueless.

Imagine counting all those opportunities to win sporting competetive games as sporting chances to avoid relegation.

No wonder Scottish football is misunderstood around the world. Well done Neil for clarifying it all. We just need David Icke to replace Doncaster.

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[Bristolhibby]

Neil McCann on sportsound. Hearts, Patrick Thistle and Stranraer haven't had a sporting chance to get out of relegation.

You mean apart from the 30 odd games already played in the season? Absolutely clueless.

Correct. 30 games trump the remaining 8.

And the SPFL would do well to announce what the rules would be going forward to protect ourselves against COVID-20 or the likes.

J

[hibbyfraelibby]

Big clubs being able to field B teams in the senior league may have merit, but it's a non-starter if it's only open to the Old Firm.

Agreed.

If this is a serous way forward then 3 leagues of 12 mirroring the current Premiership format.

Leaves 6 lower League teams. If every Premiership team was mandated to enter an u/23 team in that bottom league then a dual competition could take place.

The 6 proper teams could play each other twice. They could then play the a round against each of the Premier colts with all the games being at home and finish off with a home and away round against themselves again.

Gives them a 32 game regular season but with 22 home games maximising income. Top of that group of 6 gets automatically promoted. 2,3,4 play off to meet 2nd bottom in the 3rd tier.

Bottom two teams play off against each other to meet winner of the Lowland/Highland play off.


The 12 colts teams having played 12 games against the 4th tier teams would play each other home and away giving them a 34 game season. To make things competetive the top 6 teams would qualify for the Challenge Cup following season instead of all the prem teams entering a dev squad. In addition the Prem Teams would have to register a limited squad for the top league of say max of 24 players and 18 for the colts, who could be allowed 2 over age players. Playwrs could mive between squads at transfer window time.

That way the big boys support the minnows, the minnows get more home games, the need for a Dev League/Reserve League disappears, the Uglies dont get an even bigger advantage...and Hurtz remain a Championship team.

Simples

[MrSmith]

Frankly the one reconstruction plan the SPFL should be working on is to facilitate a move out of Scottish football by the Glasgow 2. Be it to England or a European league, until that happens nothing will change & the same arguments will come round repeatedly year on year.
The move shouldn't be rushed in anyway but planned over say a 5 year period giving all clubs time to plan & adapt to the new order.

My folks down south don't want them anywhere near the EPL. Enough going on in English football to even consider bringing in the baggage of the the uglies. I'm paraphrasing their response but that's more or less it.

[Waxy]

Why do these people with agenda get the airtime on what is meant to be our national radio?
The whole lot need sacked.

[chippy]

Big clubs being able to field B teams in the senior league may have merit, but it's a non-starter if it's only open to the Old Firm.

If it’s good enough for Sevco and Celtic then it’s good enough for Hibs and I suspect at least 3 other clubs. If this was to happen in a well thought out scheme say a coupe of years down the line and the B teams could rise to the Championship level. Clearly Old firm would get to that level quickly, also likely Hibs Hearts and Aberdeen, possibly United. Couldn’t this be used as an argument to ditch the ‘need’ to have 4 old firm games for TV from the Premier and have say a 16 or 18 club Premier and similar size Championship. In those scenarios you would have 32 or 36 professional teams, but only 26 or 30 clubs. Radical it would likely involve the separation of professional and semi pro clubs

[Spike Mandela]

Neil McCann on sportsound. Hearts, Patrick Thistle and Stranraer haven't had a sporting chance to get out of relegation.

You mean apart from the 30 odd games already played in the season? Absolutely clueless.

Why are EBT recipients still given a voice on the BBC? Has Mr McCann paid back his loan yet? Paid his taxes? Perhaps he could ask to divert any monies to lower league clubs for testing.

[Bostonhibby]

My folks down south don't want them anywhere near the EPL. Enough going on in English football to even consider bringing in the baggage of the the uglies. I'm paraphrasing their response but that's more or less it.The English game neither needs nor wants them.

Like it or not they have a billion pound brand with a worldwide brand image to protect. They have their own issues without dumping sectarian hatred and all the other issues that come to town when, for example, sevco fans decide to grace your city.



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[Since452]

I don't know how people can listen to Sportsound. Especially when Hibs aren't in action. Even then it's tough going

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Neil McCann on sportsound. Hearts, Patrick Thistle and Stranraer haven't had a sporting chance to get out of relegation.

You mean apart from the 30 odd games already played in the season? Absolutely clueless.

I stand by what I said 8 weeks ago

If we were 4 games in and Motherwell were top with 3 wins and a draw and hearts (or anyone) were bottom no way could the league count

But 30 games in and 4 points adrift, and an appallingly record vs other bottom 6 teams - hearts were done for

[MrSmith]

The English game neither needs nor wants them.

Like it or not they have a billion pound brand with a worldwide brand image to protect. They have their own issues without dumping sectarian hatred and all the other issues that come to town when, for example, sevco fans decide to grace your city.



Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

Exactly it! They really have no desire to let them anywhere near the EPL.

[jacomo]

Neil McCann on sportsound. Hearts, Patrick Thistle and Stranraer haven't had a sporting chance to get out of relegation.

You mean apart from the 30 odd games already played in the season? Absolutely clueless.


Maybe he’s pitching for a job and thinks this is what his prospective employers want to hear.

I think he should get the Hearts gig. He appears to be an absolutely awful manager.

[Wheat Hound]

Maybe he’s pitching for a job and thinks this is what his prospective employers want to hear.

I think he should get the Hearts gig. He appears to be an absolutely awful manager.

I suspect you're not far away from the truth there. A classless wee angry man who was happy to take his EBT without any such moralistic standpoint.

[Ronniekirk]

Neil McCann on sportsound. Hearts, Patrick Thistle and Stranraer haven't had a sporting chance to get out of relegation.

You mean apart from the 30 odd games already played in the season? Absolutely clueless.

What would you expect from a Welt like him



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[JohnMcM]

Agreed.

If this is a serous way forward then 3 leagues of 12 mirroring the current Premiership format.

Leaves 6 lower League teams. If every Premiership team was mandated to enter an u/23 team in that bottom league then a dual competition could take place.

The 6 proper teams could play each other twice. They could then play the a round against each of the Premier colts with all the games being at home and finish off with a home and away round against themselves again.

Gives them a 32 game regular season but with 22 home games maximising income. Top of that group of 6 gets automatically promoted. 2,3,4 play off to meet 2nd bottom in the 3rd tier.

Bottom two teams play off against each other to meet winner of the Lowland/Highland play off.


The 12 colts teams having played 12 games against the 4th tier teams would play each other home and away giving them a 34 game season. To make things competetive the top 6 teams would qualify for the Challenge Cup following season instead of all the prem teams entering a dev squad. In addition the Prem Teams would have to register a limited squad for the top league of say max of 24 players and 18 for the colts, who could be allowed 2 over age players. Playwrs could mive between squads at transfer window time.

That way the big boys support the minnows, the minnows get more home games, the need for a Dev League/Reserve Keague disappears, the Uglies dont get an even bigger advantage...and Hurtz remain a Championship team.

Simples

I had to read this 3 times to fully understand what you were saying. Now that I do understand it seems to me you might have hit upon something here, especially the 3x12 all playing the same format as our Premier League. That is tempting, everyone has something to fight for. As for the mandated U23 teams I can't see that being a runner owing to costs of maintaining and servicing what is basically a full time reserve team.

Good thinking by you as far as I'm concerned.:thumbsup:

[jgl07]

I admit that I would like to see League reconstruction in Scotland. But not as a hurried (and botched?) mechanism to stop Hearts getting their much deserved relegation.

If it is to be done it needs to be planned well ahead so that all the clubs know what to aim for. As things stand, mid-table teams in the Championship and League One could get put up a division or stay put (effectively being relegated) depending exactly where they finished this season just abandoned.

Any change needs to be agreed at least a season in advance so that all teams can set their targets. Any attempt to railroad this through in a hurry would be rejected by most supporters rather like when they tried to parachute Sevco back into the Premiership.

Leave Hearts to languish in the lower divisions until they are promoted on merit. Let the Yams spend their ‘maroon poonds’ where they choose.

[weecounty hibby]

It is breathtaking arrogance from the bigot twins to think 1)the English want them and 2) that they would go straight to EPL. Think about all of the big clubs outside the EPL that would be straight to court action. Why wouldn't they have to start in the conference. And by the way if we in Scotland don't want them just think about how the ordinary fan in England feels. Also the police, **** me there is no way in earth that is ever happening.

[Eyrie]

The colt teams should be nowhere near the senior leagues. There's more than enough clubs already for those places when you consider the Highland and Lowland sides as well as the 42 clubs already there.

The Ugly Sisters are the only clubs who could afford the expense of running a full B squad, so any mention that other clubs could do the same is irrelevant.

[matty_f]

Big clubs being able to field B teams in the senior league may have merit, but it's a non-starter if it's only open to the Old Firm.

Totally agree, either everybody gets in, or nobody does.

[Lago]

Exactly it! They really have no desire to let them anywhere near the EPL.

That in itself is both good news and bad news. Good news interest in the Scottish game is as is. Bad news we continue to have effectively a continuous 2 horse race in the Scottish top league, the majority of money & the best players going to either of the O. F. The rest of the clubs looking for scraps from the top table.
But at least we can go on hating them ��

[jacomo]

If it’s good enough for Sevco and Celtic then it’s good enough for Hibs and I suspect at least 3 other clubs. If this was to happen in a well thought out scheme say a coupe of years down the line and the B teams could rise to the Championship level. Clearly Old firm would get to that level quickly, also likely Hibs Hearts and Aberdeen, possibly United. Couldn’t this be used as an argument to ditch the ‘need’ to have 4 old firm games for TV from the Premier and have say a 16 or 18 club Premier and similar size Championship. In those scenarios you would have 32 or 36 professional teams, but only 26 or 30 clubs. Radical it would likely involve the separation of professional and semi pro clubs


Ok but say you have 6 colt teams, all of which make it into the Championship but can’t go any higher. This could mean 7th place gets automatic promotion to the top flight.

What happens if a Big and Famous team gets relegated into the same division as its colt team?

[hibbyfraelibby]

Ok but say you have 6 colt teams, all of which make it into the Championship but can’t go any higher. This could mean 7th place gets automatic promotion to the top flight.

What happens if a Big and Famous team gets relegated into the same division as its colt team?

Dont allow colts teams to be "promoted"

[hibbyfraelibby]

Ok but say you have 6 colt teams, all of which make it into the Championship but can’t go any higher. This could mean 7th place gets automatic promotion to the top flight.

What happens if a Big and Famous team gets relegated into the same division as its colt team?

Dont allow colts teams to be "promoted", only top flight yeams get to run colts teams.

[Alfred E Newman]

I don't know how people can listen to Sportsound. Especially when Hibs aren't in action. Even then it's tough going

That it in a nutshell. Why these guys get employed to spout the same old garbage over the summer I'll never know.

[chippy]

Ok but say you have 6 colt teams, all of which make it into the Championship but can’t go any higher. This could mean 7th place gets automatic promotion to the top flight.

What happens if a Big and Famous team gets relegated into the same division as its colt team?

Yes 7th and 8th would be promoted as they are independent pro clubs. If a Clubs A team is relegated, B team would probably be removed from the division until A team manage to get promoted again. Your suggestion s though do imply that, a big club getting relegated from a 16/18 team league suggests that league has become stronger.

[CapitalGreen]

Yes 7th and 8th would be promoted as they are independent pro clubs. If a Clubs A team is relegated, B team would probably be removed from the division until A team manage to get promoted again. Your suggestion s though do imply that, a big club getting relegated from a 16/18 team league suggests that league has become stronger.

Seems like the 12 team league must be pretty strong already then considering Hibs and Dundee United were both relegated in recent years.

[Radium]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200606/812b17bee09fc78e6982c837639b8f46.jpg

I realise the leagues have been called but is this an indication that reconstruction is no longer happening and decisions are getting made


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[jacomo]

Yes 7th and 8th would be promoted as they are independent pro clubs. If a Clubs A team is relegated, B team would probably be removed from the division until A team manage to get promoted again. Your suggestion s though do imply that, a big club getting relegated from a 16/18 team league suggests that league has become stronger.


I’m missing something. The old firm aren’t proposing a 16/18 team top division are they?

[Waxy]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200606/812b17bee09fc78e6982c837639b8f46.jpg

I realise the leagues have been called but is this an indication that reconstruction is no longer happening and decisions are getting made


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThe relegations have happened.

[Aldo]

The relegations have happened.

Looks like they have. I wonder if this is why there has been a silence?? From across the city?


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[Waxy]

Colt teams would only take up spaces that could be taken by the ambitious non league teams.
Brutal idea.

[Mikey]

Looks like they have. I wonder if this is why there has been a silence?? From across the city?


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They don't have an expulsion clause in their contracts so have to stay :wink:

But seriously, they won't be paid more elsewhere so may as well stay.

[GreenCastle]

The relegations have happened.

Yup. It was voted - it was announced on the SPFL website.

Hearts relegated - https://spfl.co.uk/news/ladbrokes-premiership-and-spfl-season-201920-cur

I find it hilarious any 14 league proposals and fans including Hearts in the 14.

It’s 12 (Dundee Utd) then any extra teams between Championship sides ICT, Dundee and Hearts.

Put it simply..it’s not going to happen. 12 teams again from August.

[Aldo]

They don't have an expulsion clause in their contracts so have to stay :wink:

But seriously, they won't be paid more elsewhere so may as well stay.

Pleasing Mikey very pleasing.


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[Tommy75]

Yes 7th and 8th would be promoted as they are independent pro clubs. If a Clubs A team is relegated, B team would probably be removed from the division until A team manage to get promoted again. Your suggestion s though do imply that, a big club getting relegated from a 16/18 team league suggests that league has become stronger.

When you say remove the B team from the division until the A team got promoted, where would you put them? Also would they automatically get their place back when A team gets promotion?

[Gmack7]

everything I've read about possible reconstruction over the last few months has been TOTAL DUG*****

[Dr What If?]

B teams playing in the pro leagues does answer a major problem in the game, significant numbers of players getting no where near the first team of their clubs resulting in no game time and stifled development. Clearly this is the only answer to the problem, limiting squad sizes for example and allowing other clubs a shot at signing quality young players would just be nonsense.
In other news, how many iterations of the league format must we be subjected to in the coming weeks? Not opposed to restructuring but surely it has to be agreed and signed at least a season in advance?

[jgl07]

A 16 or 18 team league is a massive no from me. I remember the 18 team league and the second half of the season was a complete bore fest with so many meaningless games. Be careful what you wish for.
Yes kind of like the second half of the season under current arrangements?

And indeed rather like the first half of the season?

Rangers and Celtic have dominated the Scottish Premier League/SPL/SPFL Premiership for nearly 40 years. Since the demise of Rangers, Celtic have had next to no opposition. Apart from relegation, the only issue of interest is who will qualify to get knocked out of the Europa League next season in the Qualifying Rounds sometime in July!

[Scooter]

County have said no for next season but like the idea

[malcolm]

B teams playing in the pro leagues does answer a major problem in the game, significant numbers of players getting no where near the first team of their clubs resulting in no game time and stifled development. Clearly this is the only answer to the problem, limiting squad sizes for example and allowing other clubs a shot at signing quality young players would just be nonsense.
In other news, how many iterations of the league format must we be subjected to in the coming weeks? Not opposed to restructuring but surely it has to be agreed and signed at least a season in advance?

Completely disagree!

Hibs currently loan players out to lower league teams so giving competitive game time allowing them to develop and also arrange games for the development side outside Scotland to widen their experience. The simple fact is that for a whole host of reasons, not every player signed in the hope of reaching the first team will get anywhere near it regardless of how they are developed. Running a B team in the leagues just sounds like a more expensive route than the current approach and one fraught with other problems and dubious benefit.

The loan system is now an integral part of the game and a much better solution for the clubs large and small as well as the players. The key is to have limits to ensure clubs up here don’t operate like the Chelsea’s and Man City’s do down south with a huge loan player industry in the hope of finding the odd Pearl or two.

I totally agree your last point though :wink:

[147lothian]

It seems to me that Doncaster has played a blinder, he allowed AB to lead the discussions into reconstruction, exposing it as driven by self interest, then he proposes a five year 14 team spl knowing that even teams in favour of short term 14 team league wouldn't want that, and as he led the call it takes away the claims of not listening or doing nothing etc leaving the current set up the only logical outcome

Upstaging the grumbling voices in maroon against the spfl and helping them to realise that there really was no other viable outcome other than them being relegated for being the worst team after 30 games

[matty_f]

Completely disagree!

Hibs currently loan players out to lower league teams so giving competitive game time allowing them to develop and also arrange games for the development side outside Scotland to widen their experience. The simple fact is that for a whole host of reasons, not every player signed in the hope of reaching the first team will get anywhere near it regardless of how they are developed. Running a B team in the leagues just sounds like a more expensive route than the current approach and one fraught with other problems and dubious benefit.

The loan system is now an integral part of the game and a much better solution for the clubs large and small as well as the players. The key is to have limits to ensure clubs up here don’t operate like the Chelsea’s and Man City’s do down south with a huge loan player industry in the hope of finding the odd Pearl or two.

I totally agree your last point though :wink:

I think he was being sarcastic with the but your disagreed with :wink:

[Clarence]

I bet there is no legal action and they make a statement about putting the rest of Scottish football ahead of themselves or something else sickly like that. They have no chance of winning in court.

[EI255]

TFW Budge and Fartz, I'm off tomorrow to protest against far more serious sxxt

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[chippy]

I’m missing something. The old firm aren’t proposing a 16/18 team top division are they?

Your right of course afaik. I mentioned 16/18 and B teams in the 2nd tier in an earlier post as among other things a possible way to remove the ‘need’ for 4 Old firm games in the Premier. We both know this isn’t gonna happen anytime soon and perhaps never. Maybe reform plans will be made over the next couple of years. I suspect Sevco are just trying their luck to flesh out any interest

[malcolm]

I think he was being sarcastic with the but your disagreed with :wink:

On reflection you may be right.. and was then posting on an empty head... there is though a lot of it going about :wink:

[Iggy Pope]

Looks like folk have gone from ****ting themselves on Friday night to a calm frenzy now.
Honest, if I read “I’ve said all along” once more I swear I’ll do time.

[Carheenlea]

If clubs have been asked to submit their own preferred reconstruction ideas, I’d hope a large percentage of them would just say they quite like the status quo. The way things are being reported you’d be forgiven for thinking that idea is off the table.

[Sammy7nil]

Looks like folk have gone from ****ting themselves on Friday night to a calm frenzy now.
Honest, if I read “I’ve said all along” once more I swear I’ll do time.

I've said along you will do time :wink:

[Glory Lurker]

Looks like folk have gone from ****ting themselves on Friday night to a calm frenzy now.
Honest, if I read “I’ve said all along” once more I swear I’ll do time.

You were nowhere to be seen though? Too upset to post?:-)

[Iain G]

Yes kind of like the second half of the season under current arrangements?

And indeed rather like the first half of the season?

Rangers and Celtic have dominated the Scottish Premier League/SPL/SPFL Premiership for nearly 40 years. Since the demise of Rangers, Celtic have had next to no opposition. Apart from relegation, the only issue of interest is who will qualify to get knocked out of the Europa League next season in the Qualifying Rounds sometime in July!

So how do we make it interesting and at least try to keep it more than a 1 or 2 horse race?

12 teams, each team plays each other once at home and once away. Then the league splits in two, top and bottom and scores are reset. Top team on each starts on 15, second on 12, third on 9 etc. Each team in the split divisions then plays each other again home and away to settle the league or relegation?

Or any other random ideas that nobody will ever vote for 😊

[Kojock]

Yes kind of like the second half of the season under current arrangements?

And indeed rather like the first half of the season?

Rangers and Celtic have dominated the Scottish Premier League/SPL/SPFL Premiership for nearly 40 years. Since the demise of Rangers, Celtic have had next to no opposition. Apart from relegation, the only issue of interest is who will qualify to get knocked out of the Europa League next season in the Qualifying Rounds sometime in July!

Increasing the size of the league isn’t going to solve the problem of Rantic dominating the league. They have been discussing reconstruction for the last 10 years and can’t come up with anything better than the current set up.

[Iggy Pope]

I've said along you will do time :wink:

:wink:


You were nowhere to be seen though? Too upset to post?:-)

Aw, ****ing, please. Is that a crap LTYF sort of squeal? Soaking.

[Glory Lurker]

:wink:



Aw, ****ing, please. Is that a crap LTYF sort of squeal? Soaking.

Aye. Always suspected you :-)

[jacomo]

18 team top flight and a draft. That would shake it up.

14 team league achieves nothing except saving their bacon.

[Iggy Pope]

Aye. Always suspected you :-)

Astonishing form even by some standards.

[Glory Lurker]

Astonishing form even by some standards.

Mate! Smiley face! Dinnae be daft!

[murray26]

Are the dangle berry’s away yet..?

[jgl07]

Yes 7th and 8th would be promoted as they are independent pro clubs. If a Clubs A team is relegated, B team would probably be removed from the division until A team manage to get promoted again. …..

All that gives a perfect example of a Mickey Mouse League.

No further argument needed.

[GreenCastle]

The English game neither needs nor wants them.

Like it or not they have a billion pound brand with a worldwide brand image to protect. They have their own issues without dumping sectarian hatred and all the other issues that come to town when, for example, sevco fans decide to grace your city.



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Yup - I laugh my head off anytime anyone mentions Old Firm to England.

It’s so unrealistic!

Are teams like Sunderland / Leeds and Charlton who have been in the EPL before suddenly going to welcome them at the risk they get promoted.

Zero chance ever - it will simply never happen and annoyingly we are stuck with the old firm here.

If anyone ever mentions Old Firm to England - just end the conversation there.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Yup - I laugh my head off anytime anyone mentions Old Firm to England.

It’s so unrealistic!

Are teams like Sunderland / Leeds and Charlton who have been in the EPL before suddenly going to welcome them at the risk they get promoted.

Zero chance ever - it will simply never happen and annoyingly we are stuck with the old firm here.

If anyone ever mentions Old Firm to England - just end the conversation there.

Absolutely

And they all seem to think they’d swan in at premiership/championship level...

[Waxy]

Always the old firm to move to England.Why not Newcastle, Sunderland, Carlisle to Scotland? Not going to happen but would probably make more sense.
Swansea and Cardiff play in the English league.

[GreenCastle]

Always the old firm to move to England.Why not Newcastle, Sunderland, Carlisle to Scotland? Not going to happen but would probably make more sense.
Swansea and Cardiff play in the English league.

Newcastle leaving the EPL millions for our tin pot league !

That definitely doesn’t make any sense !

[Waxy]

Newcastle leaving the EPL millions for our tin pot league !

That definitely doesn’t make any sense !Champions league?

[GreenCastle]

Champions league?

But they wouldn’t be able to pay the EPL wages - but they would have a 1 in 3 chance of getting in CL qualifiers.

Like Old Firm to England just wont happen.

I do think a British Cup would be interesting to say the least but would probably see all sort of fan trouble.

[Phil MaGlass]

No thanks to a British cup. Dont fancy watchin us gettin pumped oot 7-0 fae Arsenal or even Newcastle. Just jo thanks, call it something else but not Btitish sick tae death of having the label British forced down my throat especially from the ebc , they cannae wait tae call all their programmes British this The great British that, just ****off. Cannae believe ah just bitched aboot that. Christ its Sunday morning

[MacGruber]

Ok but say you have 6 colt teams, all of which make it into the Championship but can’t go any higher. This could mean 7th place gets automatic promotion to the top flight.

What happens if a Big and Famous team gets relegated into the same division as its colt team?

No Premier team wants to be left behind and they all want a colts team. Including Brora and Kelty that's 58 teams. 59 when Dundee get promoted and want a colts team. 14 Colts in the Championship and no promotion possible known before a ball is kicked. The promoted team to Premier league is the 2nd team in L1 because the 1st team in L1 is the 15th colt team that dropped out to make way for Dundee Colts....

I've taken it too far haven't I !?

[Devonhibs]

Looks like folk have gone from ****ting themselves on Friday night to a calm frenzy now.
Honest, if I read “I’ve said all along” once more I swear I’ll do time.

I have said all along you have by far the best username :greengrin

[Waxy]

What about when rangers get liquidated again? do the colts get liquidated?
Its a bad idea for Scotland?

[hibbysam]

Anything that undermines the pyramid system is a non starter. You cannot just buy your way up the ladder. If they want colts teams then they should be applying to the East/South/West of Scotland leagues to enter at the bottom. Plain and simple.

[Waxy]

Anything that undermines the pyramid system is a non starter. You cannot just buy your way up the ladder. If they want colts teams then they should be applying to the East/South/West of Scotland leagues to enter at the bottom. Plain and simple.
Absolutely.Once the novelty wears off Celtic and Rangers colts would get poor crowds but would still probably be good enough to ruin the championship.
As much as i despise the idea i'd rather have just have hearts 14-14-14.
Luckily we dont have to do either so all is fine.

[greenpaper55]

Ross county against changes for this coming season, if we vote no and they do the same then it must be all over surely

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52954368

[Eyrie]

No Premier team wants to be left behind and they all want a colts team. Including Brora and Kelty that's 58 teams. 59 when Dundee get promoted and want a colts team. 14 Colts in the Championship and no promotion possible known before a ball is kicked. The promoted team to Premier league is the 2nd team in L1 because the 1st team in L1 is the 15th colt team that dropped out to make way for Dundee Colts....

I've taken it too far haven't I !?

Very good point.

Using that scenario, what happens to the colts team of whoever is relegated? Presumably it would be able to continue, otherwise their club would have to pay the colts players despite not having any opposition to play, or sack the colts players.

So never mind 15 colts teams, in ten years the number could be well over twenty.

[JimBHibees]

Ross county against changes for this coming season, if we vote no and they do the same then it must be all over surely

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52954368

That likely kills it dead imo. Put any reconstruction chat to back burner and move on to new season.

[Ozyhibby]

So how do we make it interesting and at least try to keep it more than a 1 or 2 horse race?

12 teams, each team plays each other once at home and once away. Then the league splits in two, top and bottom and scores are reset. Top team on each starts on 15, second on 12, third on 9 etc. Each team in the split divisions then plays each other again home and away to settle the league or relegation?

Or any other random ideas that nobody will ever vote for [emoji4]

Salary cap.


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[GreenCastle]

No thanks to a British cup. Dont fancy watchin us gettin pumped oot 7-0 fae Arsenal or even Newcastle. Just jo thanks, call it something else but not Btitish sick tae death of having the label British forced down my throat especially from the ebc , they cannae wait tae call all their programmes British this The great British that, just ****off. Cannae believe ah just bitched aboot that. Christ its Sunday morning

Good sleep last night ?!

What happens if we ever get into the European Cup ?!!

Fair point about the gulf in quality though i doubt they would play full strength teams and again it’s something which would help Scottish game more than England so it’s a non starter as they don’t need it.

[Eyrie]

Salary cap.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How would that work for those clubs involved in European football? Celtc and Sevco would never accept a figure that would hinder their chances of making the group stages. Hibs, Aberdeen and a future Hearts wouldn't accept a figure that would see them knocked out in their first round.

And setting a cap that is higher than Hamilton, Ross County etc can afford negates the purpose of a cap.

The NFL cap works because it is the main professional American football competition in the world. The SPFL is competing with the lower leagues in England for players, never mind the other European leagues.

[GreenCastle]

Salary cap.


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Salary Cap or playing Old Firm x2 a season is the only way we will ever see a non Old Firm team winning the league again.

One day - not sure when fans will realise the Old Firm winning the league ever year really isn’t great for everyone else and will need to do something about it.

Right now all you have is teams trying to get 3rd and teams like Hearts tying to see that as doing well when really 3rd in most sports is forgotten about straight away.

Salary cap wouldn’t happen unless Europe wide and that’s never going to happen either.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Salary cap.


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Salary cap doesn't help but a squad size does.

If you are limited to say 24 players it stops the uglies buying out all the talent and making them bench warmers unable to play because they play their foreign player instead.

[Eyrie]

Salary Cap or playing Old Firm x2 a season is the only way we will ever see a non Old Firm team winning the league again.

One day - not sure when fans will realise the Old Firm winning the league ever year really isn’t great for everyone else and will need to do something about it.

Right now all you have is teams trying to get 3rd and teams like Hearts tying to see that as doing well when really 3rd in most sports is forgotten about straight away.

Playing the Ugly Sisters twice a season won't make it easier to win the league. Any "advantage" that comes from two fewer opportunities to drop points to the Ugly Sisters will be replaced by opportunities to drop points to other clubs. How often did Celtc drop points in the season just finished to teams in the bottom half of the table compared to Motherwell or Aberdeen? Clubs that find themselves in mid-table will see a crop off in attendances which will restrict their budgets for signing players. Meanwhile the Ugly Sisters will still have their usual financial advantage. And do we really have another six or eight clubs in Scottish football with the quality to compete in the top half of the table to raise rather than weaken the standard of competition?

If a team is good enough to win the league, then it is good enough to take more points off the Ugly Sisters than it drops. And there are fewer chances for the Ugly Sisters to make up those points if teams play four times instead of two.

[Eyrie]

Salary cap doesn't help but a squad size does.

If you are limited to say 24 players it stops the uglies buying out all the talent and making them bench warmers unable to play because they play their foreign player instead.

Add a restriction to the number of players they can loan out and that would definitely help.

[greenpaper55]

All the prize monies being distributed equally would help, the OF are nothing if they have no teams to play against.

[Newry Hibs]

How long before the OF want a 'C' team in the league? After all a 'B' team is such a good idea.

[Ozyhibby]

Salary cap doesn't help but a squad size does.

If you are limited to say 24 players it stops the uglies buying out all the talent and making them bench warmers unable to play because they play their foreign player instead.

I agree on squad size but why would a salary cap not help?
A salary cap set at say £6m a season would probably only affect two teams. And it would give us a competitive league.


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[EI255]

That likely kills it dead imo. Put any reconstruction chat to back burner and move on to new season.Just 21 days until the new fixtures come out. Are Fartz and The Rangers on the wind up? Hopefully, come Tuesday, they will be put out their misery.

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[Largshibby]

Absolutely

And they all seem to think they’d swan in at premiership/championship level...

It won’t even be a football decision. Can you imagine the police agreeing to an arrangement where thousands of old firm fans (most without tickets) descend on England every week. No chance.

[Sioux]

I agree on squad size but why would a salary cap not help?
A salary cap set at say £6m a season would probably only affect two teams. And it would give us a competitive league.


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And deny the possibility of Rangers and Celtic being even less competitive in Europe that they are now?

Those dumplings form along the road have been crying about restriction of trade, but what you're suggesting at least gives such a claim some merit.

Football is not amateur golf with a handicap system in place.

[04Sauzee]

Hearts fans seem to think reconstruction will be pushed through by Doncaster with no need for a vote?

[greenlex]

18 team top flight and a draft. That would shake it up.

14 team league achieves nothing except saving their bacon.
A draft? From where? We don’t have a college system.

[greenpaper55]

Hearts fans seem to think reconstruction will be pushed through by Doncaster with no need for a vote?

The hearts fans live on another planet, they are in for a shock this week.

[bingo70]

Hearts fans seem to think reconstruction will be pushed through by Doncaster with no need for a vote?

Was told that by a jambo mate yesterday.

Apparently he is able to push it through as some sort of emergency legislation without the need to ask clubs to vote on it.

[Bostonhibby]

Was told that by a jambo mate yesterday.

Apparently he is able to push it through as some sort of emergency legislation without the need to ask clubs to vote on it.Some sort of special Hearts anti relegation / Save Hearts In Trouble type clause?
You can see why the SPFL members would have agreed for such a clause when they were setting up their Articles of Association then all agreeing the rules.

It's the practical alternative to having a voting arrangement.

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[Since452]

How long before the OF want a 'C' team in the league? After all a 'B' team is such a good idea.

Rangers already have a B team in the SPFL. They've just been relegated from the Premiership

[greenlex]

Increasing the size of the league isn’t going to solve the problem of Rantic dominating the league. They have been discussing reconstruction for the last 10 years and can’t come up with anything better than the current set up.
Disagree. You play the old firm 4 times you might beat either of them once but you won’t do it three times. Play them twice and you might beat them once. That negates the gap in points right away. It’s how you do against the other teams after that that will see how you compete at the top end if you’re up there. I’d also bin one point for a goalless draw. Both teams should get diddly squat.

[Heisenberg]

Hearts fans seem to think reconstruction will be pushed through by Doncaster with no need for a vote?

This is the thing that Ann Budge was talking about a week or two back but she didn’t fully know the ins and outs as she hadn’t read the rules. I’m sure if Doncaster wanted to do that because of it being an emergency situation he would have by now. The only situation I think that could lead to that happening would be if the championship can’t be played until January, which seems unlikely.

[HFC93]

Hearts fans seem to think reconstruction will be pushed through by Doncaster with no need for a vote?

The SPFL is a members association. A lot of folk seem to think Doncaster has more power than he actually does. He essentially does the bidding of the clubs.

[CapitalGreen]

Disagree. You play the old firm 4 times you might beat either of them once but you won’t do it three times. Play them twice and you might beat them once. That negates the gap in points right away. It’s how you do against the other teams after that that will see how you compete at the top end if you’re up there. I’d also bin one point for a goalless draw. Both teams should get diddly squat.

The old firm playing 16 games against Hibs/Hearts/Aberdeen/Motherwell a season will result in them losing more games than them playing 8 games against Hibs/Hearts/Aberdeen/Motherwell a season plus 8 games against the likes of Ayr United, Dundee, Caley Thistle.

[The Harp Awakes]

This is the thing that Ann Budge was talking about a week or two back but she didn’t fully know the ins and outs as she hadn’t read the rules. I’m sure if Doncaster wanted to do that because of it being an emergency situation he would have by now.

If Celtic are supportive, as is widely reported, I can see Doncaster wanting to push it through. Lawwell clearly has influence and Doncaster will be wanting to build bridges with the huns.

[greenpaper55]

Disagree. You play the old firm 4 times you might beat either of them once but you won’t do it three times. Play them twice and you might beat them once. That negates the gap in points right away. It’s how you do against the other teams after that that will see how you compete at the top end if you’re up there. I’d also bin one point for a goalless draw. Both teams should get diddly squat.

Spot on.

[Ronniekirk]

Was told that by a jambo mate yesterday.

Apparently he is able to push it through as some sort of emergency legislation without the need to ask clubs to vote on it.

If this existed we would know about it and our Club would know about it Really don’t think Hibs would stay silent on this
So confident it doesn’t currently exist


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[greenlex]

The old firm playing 16 games against Hibs/Hearts/Aberdeen/Motherwell a season will result in them losing more games than them playing 8 games against Hibs/Hearts/Aberdeen/Motherwell a season plus 8 games against the likes of Ayr United, Dundee, Caley Thistle.
Not enough though. They will still win the majority against us as they do now. If Leicester had had to play Man City Chelsea Liverpool spurs and Man Utd 4 times there’s no way in hell they would have won the league a few seasons ago. If the bigger clubs down south played each other 4 times in a smaller league there would be a smaller elite at the top. Probably just the two with the biggest budget.

[greenpaper55]

Doncaster has a fat salary to protect, i don't see any way he would jeopardise that, surely the clubs must have a voting system that allows them to bin whoever is running the show if it's not to their satisfaction ?

[CropleyWasGod]

Doncaster has a fat salary to protect, i don't see any way he would jeopardise that, surely the clubs must have a voting system that allows them to bin whoever is running the show if it's not to their satisfaction ?

That's the Board's call. The clubs elect the Board.

[Jim44]

Hearts fans seem to think reconstruction will be pushed through by Doncaster with no need for a vote?

Some might think this but a lot of them have accepted that legal action will be taken ASAP and, because of a ‘successful’ case abroad ((Belgium?) they are guaranteed to be reinstated in the Premiership.

[Not In The Know]

How long before the OF want a 'C' team in the league? After all a 'B' team is such a good idea.

Has anyone mentioned that one of the Key reasons the Old time want B teams is if they finally do manage to F-off to a bigger league they can still keep their bigoted bile infested roots here, while the First team goes?

[Ronniekirk]

Some might think this but a lot of them have accepted that legal action will be taken ASAP and, because of a ‘successful’ case abroad ((Belgium?) they are guaranteed to be reinstated in the Premiership.

Any one on here with a Legal Background have a view on this



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[Dr What If?]

Salary cap doesn't help but a squad size does.

If you are limited to say 24 players it stops the uglies buying out all the talent and making them bench warmers unable to play because they play their foreign player instead.

Spot on, the fact we are talking about colt teams in the pro set up is as good as a confession that the bigger teams are hoarding players to the determent of smaller clubs than you will ever get. Players who could be playing at a pretty decent level but are tied to the OF instead. Same happens across Europe I know and England is probably the worst. SPFL would do better looking at this than restructuring but also a question to be asked at UEFA level.

Falkirk took a lot of stick for abandoning their youth program but realistically, what was the point? Best kids get hoovered up by OF and in volume. Us along with Aberdeen and 'them' have at least a chance of picking up some quality from whats left but there are a lot of filters before you get to Falkirks level. Even the smallest pro club used to be able to depend of a transfer fee now and again when a good young 'un came through the ranks.....now they are watching the bigger clubs in the hope some 20 something gets released having never having kicked a ball in professional sport.

[04Sauzee]

Any one on here with a Legal Background have a view on this



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Kickback has all the answers


Maiden Gorgie Maiden Gorgie

Posted 32 minutes ago
45 minutes ago, The Gasman said:

All that Doncaster needs to do is personally phone each Club Chairman in turn, and lay it out for them in simple terms.



The SPFL has zero funds



The SPFL’s legal costs (£500,000) will need to be met by the Member Clubs each paying an equal share, regardless of their league or their income.



If they lose, Hearts legal costs (£500,000) will need to be met by the Member Clubs each paying an equal share, regardless of their league or their income.



If they lose Hearts damages (£4,000,000?) will need to be met by Member Clubs each paying an equal share, regardless of their league or their income.



Their individual share would be almost £150,000.



Would they please make their cheque payable to “SPFL Fighting Fund”, and send to Hampden to arrive no later than Tuesday 30th of June.



Oh, and a little reminder, any Club failing to pay their share, or failing to be able to fulfill their fixtures after paying their share, will find themselves expelled from the SPFL in line with the current rules.



I’m guessing that with zero income just now, and possibly zero income till some time next year, every single Chairman outside the Premiership (and a few in the Premiership) will know that bill will kill off their Club out from under them.



They’ll lose their Blazer, they’ll lose the chance to sit on working parties and committees, and they’ll always be remembered as the one in charge when their local Club died. Remembered as the one who’s decisions led to their Club’s death.



They’ll **** themselves.



They’ll agree to back what ever proposal Doncaster puts in front of them. They may not like it, but they’ll go along with it.



Nailed it 👍

Quote

[Heisenberg]

Some might think this but a lot of them have accepted that legal action will be taken ASAP and, because of a ‘successful’ case abroad ((Belgium?) they are guaranteed to be reinstated in the Premiership.

I’m sure the difference in countries like Belgium and France is the league board made the decision to end their season. Ours was decided by a democratic vote including all member clubs. Hearts even agreed to end the season themselves eventually.

[04Sauzee]

I’m sure the difference in countries like Belgium and France is the league board made the decision to end their season. Ours was decided by a democratic vote including all member clubs. Hearts even agreed to end the season themselves eventually.
Very good point that 😁

[weecounty hibby]

Hearts fans seem to think reconstruction will be pushed through by Doncaster with no need for a vote?
That post was blown out the water after 5 words!!😀

[Bostonhibby]

Kickback has all the answers


Maiden Gorgie Maiden Gorgie

Posted 32 minutes ago
45 minutes ago, The Gasman said:

All that Doncaster needs to do is personally phone each Club Chairman in turn, and lay it out for them in simple terms.



The SPFL has zero funds



The SPFL’s legal costs (£500,000) will need to be met by the Member Clubs each paying an equal share, regardless of their league or their income.



If they lose, Hearts legal costs (£500,000) will need to be met by the Member Clubs each paying an equal share, regardless of their league or their income.



If they lose Hearts damages (£4,000,000?) will need to be met by Member Clubs each paying an equal share, regardless of their league or their income.



Their individual share would be almost £150,000.



Would they please make their cheque payable to “SPFL Fighting Fund”, and send to Hampden to arrive no later than Tuesday 30th of June.



Oh, and a little reminder, any Club failing to pay their share, or failing to be able to fulfill their fixtures after paying their share, will find themselves expelled from the SPFL in line with the current rules.



I’m guessing that with zero income just now, and possibly zero income till some time next year, every single Chairman outside the Premiership (and a few in the Premiership) will know that bill will kill off their Club out from under them.



They’ll lose their Blazer, they’ll lose the chance to sit on working parties and committees, and they’ll always be remembered as the one in charge when their local Club died. Remembered as the one who’s decisions led to their Club’s death.



They’ll **** themselves.



They’ll agree to back what ever proposal Doncaster puts in front of them. They may not like it, but they’ll go along with it.



Nailed it [emoji106]

QuoteJeez, no wonder guys like Romanov was able to leave them in the state he did and they still gave him suitcases full of cash for non existent shares as he headed out the door.



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