NO to reconstruction

[calumhibee1]

Bizarrely it states in the proposal it's for no relegation and three up from championship.

Eh, they've already been relegated.

Does it really say that? No relegation and three up? That makes 15 teams?

[FilipinoHibs]

14 team SPL. Split 6 and 8. Top six 36 games bottom 8 40 games. Then play offs etc. We don’t even know if the season will start in August and yet she wants to increase the number of games. Ken what Anne **** right off.

So bottom 8 get two visits from old firm instead of 3 as well as fewer visits from other top six teams with bigger support. That is lost revenue and a bigger chance of relegation.

[JohnM1875]

Does it really say that? No relegation and three up? That makes 15 teams?

Sorry! Two up:

"The proposal would see:

• an enlarged Premier Division of 14 teams, based on no relegation and 2 promotions (Dundee United and Inverness Caledonian Thistle) from Season 2019/20"

[we are hibs]

Look how great we are and look at all we can offer the top flight!


Heres an idea, how about you offer it to the championship clubs instead? You know, the actual league youre in?

[Green Blood]

fait accompli

/ˌfeɪt əˈkɒmpli,French fɛt akɔ̃pli/







a thing that has already happened or been decided before those affected hear about it, leaving them with no option but to accept it.

.................................................. ...........

I have had a feeling now for some time that Hearts would be saved from relegation and I believe most clubs secretly had agreed reluctantly that it would be in Scottish footballs best interests to have them stay in the premier league!

[Waxy]

This proposal is actually disgusting.

[FilipinoHibs]

So bottom 8 sides get once less visit from old firm and less visits from other top 6 sides with bigger supports. So less revenue and greater chance of relegation.

[Col2]

It’s a shocking proposal. I won’t be back at Easter toad for two season if we vote for it. I can’t tell you how angry I would be. I would also expect a refund of season ticket. I am not signing up to this **** fest and a split in January after 26 games.

Question - what happens after two seasons? Or is that not clear?

[Blaster]

fait accompli

/ˌfeɪt əˈkɒmpli,French fɛt akɔ̃pli/







a thing that has already happened or been decided before those affected hear about it, leaving them with no option but to accept it.

.................................................. ...........

I have had a feeling now for some time that Hearts would be saved from relegation and I believe most clubs secretly had agreed reluctantly that it would be in Scottish footballs best interests to have them stay in the premier league!




I agree. She’s not spent all this time just coming up with this. Been agreements behind the scenes with many clubs. Hope I’m wrong

[Peevemor]

14 team SPL. Split 6 and 8. Top six 36 games bottom 8 40 games. Then play offs etc. We don’t even know if the season will start in August and yet she wants to increase the number of games. Ken what Anne **** right off.That's exactly the point I've made a few times. We don't know how things are going to pan out in terms of fixtures but she insists that bigger leagues will provide more flexibility.

I generally try to give her the benefit of the doubt but she's really angered me with this. She obviously thinks that everyone is an idiot except her. The reality is that if what she was proposing really was fairer and better for everyone, then it would already have been put in place.

[Heisenberg]

So bottom 8 sides get once less visit from old firm and less visits from other top 6 sides with bigger supports. So less revenue and greater chance of relegation.

Yeah, but that aside I’m sure the bottom six sides will be queuing up to vote for it.

ICT somehow getting promoted is baffling, wanting bottom eight sides to play more games and earn less money is baffling, making Clyde/Peterhead lose out on a good bit of cash is baffling.

[Blaster]

So bottom 8 get two visits from old firm instead of 3 as well as fewer visits from other top six teams with bigger support. That is lost revenue and a bigger chance of relegation.

She claims this will be offset with the extra games the bottom 8 will get

[we are hibs]

Daily record saying 1 premiership side who were for reconstruction are now against it.

[brog]

What an atrocious document. Unnecessarily lengthy & very poorly constructed. Her use of hackneyed business phrases grates & at no time does she convincingly explain why her lofty objectives can better be achieved within 3 divisions rather than 4. Finally, the arrogance & lack of awareness is breathtaking. I really hope we don't vote for this dogsbody of a proposal.
Incidentally I note the proposal includes increasing payments to 13th & 14th clubs. This must surely make it an 11-1 vote.

[Waxy]

Hearts get relegated then make there own proposal not to get relegated.
Something completely wrong with Scottish football if that gets voted for.
We’re all in the same boat here.
No other team would get to stay up.

[GreenCastle]

If Hearts are so great why not help the Championship clubs with finances next season and play in the Championship?!

Instead it’s self interest about staying up and pretending you care about lower league clubs.

Will be interesting to read statements about what other clubs think of this nonsense.

[Hibs90]

Help save Scottish Football. Almost as bad a lie as driving for 30 mins to test your eyesight at the local beauty spot on your wifes birthday. Give me a break. No danger this happens or I'm done.

[Heisenberg]

Daily record saying 1 premiership side who were for reconstruction are now against it.

Good news. Hopefully more follow.

[Gmack7]

it would be horrendous to be 7th at the split, 14 meaningless games from Jan/Feb and this could quite easily be us. NO THANKS

[Ozyhibby]

Still using the word expelled. They must know that will annoy other clubs?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Dr Jimmy]

Daily record saying 1 premiership side who were for reconstruction are now against it.

Can you post the link as I can’t find that in the DR.

[Heisenberg]

it would be horrendous to be 7th at the split, 14 meaningless games from Jan/Feb and this could quite easily be us. NO THANKS

Exactly. Utterly rotten idea and as you say, could easily be us.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Good news. Hopefully more follow.

Well can’t see any teams reading that and changing from a no to a yes

Or the “yes but not right now” to a yes

[GreenCastle]

Ann Budge who hasn’t played football / coached football and has no idea how many of the leagues around the world operate is trying to say she’s saving Scottish Football for the next 2 years...then what ?

You couldn’t make this up.

Barcelona and leagues around Europe are going to be really worried...

[we are hibs]

Can you post the link as I can’t find that in the DR.

I cant find the link again but heres the screenshot about the relevant part. It was about some emotional letter she sent to clubs..

[scoopyboy]

Sorry! Two up:

"The proposal would see:

• an enlarged Premier Division of 14 teams, based on no relegation and 2 promotions (Dundee United and Inverness Caledonian Thistle) from Season 2019/20"

That's just to make it up to 14.

Doesn't say how many up and down at the end of the season

[coldingham hibs]

How can clubs sell season tickets not knowing if they are playing 36 or 40 games or are fans expected to pay at the gate for the additional 4 games.

[Mikey]

That's just to make it up to 14.

Doesn't say how many up and down at the end of the season

How can she put out a proposal and not give details about relegation?

[Hibeesmad]

I bet the clubs who voted against reconstruction the other week will have the same draft ready to send tomorrow morning.

Once this is once again rejected, what next for Ann?

[we are hibs]

Can you post the link as I can’t find that in the DR.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ann-budge-sends-emotional-hearts-22090771.amp?__twitter_impression=true

[BoomtownHibees]

How would clubs price season tickets when they don’t know how many games it would be for?

[Blaster]

That's just to make it up to 14.

Doesn't say how many up and down at the end of the season

Same as currently. 1 down, 1 playoff (says is somewhere near the end)
Doesn’t say what happens when they revert back to 12 though

[Slateford Hibee]

Just read Dr Budge's spiel. A proposal to save Hearts and potentially leave a few teams stranded in the new second league, presuming not all teams will be able to commit to a season. This can't be for all of our teams interest. She should have offered to take the first relegation spot at the end of season 2. Can't see why Hearts should be in the top league and Dundee etc ignored. If, as expected, the Championship can't be played due to clubs being unable to commit, the remaining teams should be invited to the top league on a secondment and returned their when our new normal arrives. No Championship means no promotion and no one affected. Temporary increase in the Premiership gives all clubs a chance to survive. All teams unable to commit must be helped financially through their lock down.

[Mikey]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ann-budge-sends-emotional-hearts-22090771.amp?__twitter_impression=true

From that article..........


She needs at least 11 of those Premiership clubs to back it just to get it off the ground and will then be relying on winning support of 75 per cent of the rest of the country’s clubs.

[Hibeesmad]

Would the likes of Morton, Ayr and Alloa prefer to receive ticket income from Hearts or Falkirk?

[Lee Marvin]

No chance Hibs vote for that shameless nonsense.

Budge is all about fairness, yet Bora and Kelty dont benefit, Cove have their promotion rescinded, Stranrar remain relegated and 3 teams from league 1 are effectively relegated..

Budge, you are a charlatan!

[BroxburnHibee]

So whens the vote on this garbage?

[BenjiOscar]

No chance Hibs vote for that shameless nonsense.

Budge is all about fairness, yet Bora and Kelty dont benefit and 3 teams from league 1 are effectively relegated..

Budge, you are a charlatan!

That’s exactly it. It’s ok to relegate Clyde, Peterhead and Forfar and keep Cove down is it Budge? More clubs are adversely affected by these proposals than benefit. Get these proposals binned.

[Paul1642]

I really can’t see this passing. The Hibs board must be aware that voting yes would not do the relationship with the fans any good and after all the hate that has gone their way St Mirren the same. Also I can’t see what has changed enough to persuade the majority of those who were against it to now be for it 🤷*♂️

[h1bs4life]

Started reading it , glazed over what a load of utter s###e. The bit about how great there supporters, benefactors are gives me the boak. If we agree to this I will be more than raging with our board. Hopefully this will be rejected and all there masses will continue to get behind her and she can p##s away many more millions on the unfinished stand and overpaid players.j

[Dashing Bob S]

Another doomed quest

[Onion]

Budge .." Adding two teams to the top flight would require a change to the distribution of prize money model, but Budge says this would be offset by Premiership clubs not having to finance the £300,000 parachute payment that Hearts would be due on relegation."

Budge is a disgusting loser who has no dignity.

We need to get a message to the SPFL that if the vote is marginal, Hibs fans will crowd-fund the £300k required to relegate Hearts from the Premier. Put them and us out of our misery once and for all.

[The Harp Awakes]

So the BBC article tonight says the 14-14-14 proposal needs 9/12 SPL clubs to vote it through, whereas the DR article tonight says it's 11/12. So which is it?

If there is a change in TV prize money (which there will be) maybe it's 11/12 or is the cancellation of Hearts' £300k parachute payment enough to offset the shortfall and mean a 9/12 SPL majority would suffice?

[BoomtownHibees]

We need to get a message to the SPFL that if the vote is marginal, Hibs fans will crowd-fund the £300k required to relegate Hearts from the Premier. Put them and us out of our misery once and for all.

Aye ok 😂

[RoxburghHibs]

That’s exactly it. It’s ok to relegate Clyde, Peterhead and Forfar and keep Cove down is it Budge? More clubs are adversely affected by these proposals than benefit. Get these proposals binned.

Spot on. Also don’t Dundee and Dunfermline have more a claim to a top flight spot than Hearts as they were in a play-off place.

[grunt]

I cannot believe she actually thought this was a good line to put into her plan ...


In short, the Premiership needs Hearts more than the Championship does.

[PH91]

So 14-14-14 gives flexibility such that if some clubs cant afford play then the league is big enough to still go ahead.

I would suggest all the prem clubs will be able to play and 12-14-16 would give more flexibility.

I really hope this proposal is binned by the premier clubs so they truly know that their glorious club is not needed by anybody.

[coldingham hibs]

Currently every club in the top 6 plays 38 games, in this proposal they play 36 so lose income of 2 matches?.

How does that help them?

[Onion]

No chance Hibs vote for that shameless nonsense.

Budge is all about fairness, yet Bora and Kelty dont benefit and 3 teams from league 1 are effectively relegated..

Budge, you are a charlatan!

Hibs are not the worry here. The unexpected 2 day delay and the apparent change of minds by some clubs makes me think about the scene from Erin Brockovich, when she walks into the office with the 694 signatures needed :cb

[Hibs4185]

I started a poll for KP last time but I’m hopeless and can’t remember how to do it but I think there should be one to make our feelings known.

There are a hundred reasons why this must be rejected.

One is....hearts have cut their players wages-not deferred like us-so when the new season kicks off they will have no player debt and can go back to their living out with their means, leaving us to pay our players properly and leaving us at a disadvantage.

Where is the fairness in that? Finish bottom, no debt, extra income from TV money, plus extra FOH money and benefactor support supposedly.

She says they have benefactors and hundreds more donators to FOH. If that is the case, defer your players wages and pay them in full. Do the honourable thing and you may get more sympathy, but you won’t because you and your club are shameless.

As for the £300k parachute payment. You are the queen of fuds.

Get them down. Between us and St Mirren that should see the proposal taken care of.

[Hibeesmad]

Between us and St Mirren that should see the proposal taken care of.

This

[Wakeyhibee]

So the BBC article tonight says the 14-14-14 proposal needs 9/12 SPL clubs to vote it through, whereas the DR article tonight says it's 11/12. So which is it?

If there is a change in TV prize money (which there will be) maybe it's 11/12 or is the cancellation of Hearts' £300k parachute payment enough to offset the shortfall and mean a 9/12 SPL majority would suffice?

Don't know this years post but 2018/19 was 1.2m for 11th and 1.1m for 12th.

Saving the parachute payment plus I presume adding the championships 1st and 2nd prize money would make 13th and 14th pretty poor in relation.

If this does get past 1st base you know what's coming next... a dilution of prize money

[leither17]

When would Hibs get to vote on this if at all?

[Stuart93]

I see they now only need 9 teams to agree to it as oppose to 11

[Onion]

Currently every club in the top 6 plays 38 games, in this proposal they play 36 so lose income of 2 matches?.

How does that help them?

Budge was faced with an impossible equation. If the objective and acid test is "no one should lose out from the Covid-19 curtailment" as Budge bleated on about, any reconstruction is doomed. What she means is the loss the Hearts will suffer needs to be spread around the 12 Premier clubs.

[mal]

a) Premiership Clubs would play each other twice (once at home and once away) providing 26 pre-split League Matches. Following this the top 6 teams would play each other twice more (once at home and once away) providing further 10 post-split League Matches and a total of 36 League Matches for the Season. The bottom 8 teams would also play each other twice more (once at home and once away) providing 14 post-split League Matches and a total of 40 Matches for the Season.


One criticism that has been levelled at the above structure is that the earlier split means there could be too many “meaningless” matches for the bottom 8 teams following the split. It has been suggested that this could be addressed by introducing a Play-off situation between teams that finish 5th, 6th and 7th to gain the new UEFA Conference League entry spot.


Concern has also been expressed that Clubs in the bottom half of the Division could lose out on a possible home game against either Celtic or Rangers, which would impact their gate receipt income. This would be offset by virtue of being guaranteed an extra home game.


On the plus side, fixture congestion would be eased slightly for the 6 Clubs at the top of the Premiership, which has been a long-stated objective, particularly for Clubs involved in European competitions.


The section above just shows how ill thought through and self contradictory the whole this is. The top six clubs play fewer games - yay! Unless you're 5th or 6th, in which case you "could" be in a play off which, if it takes the same format as the current promotion play off (7th vs 6th home and away with the winner playing 5th home and away) could mean 6th place playing more games than now - yay?

6/8 split also means that (assuming no play offs) the top 6 play 10 games in the same time period that the bottom 8 have to play 14 games, massively disadvantaging the teams bottom teams when it comes to the latter stages of the Scottish Cup, if they make it that far. And if there is a Euro play off then the 7th place team could have 8 more games than the top 4 teams. In a season where Covid disruption could occur. I'd love to know if she put the play off option to Iain Blair.


b) Championship Clubs could follow the competition structure of the Premiership described above. Alternatively, Clubs may prefer to divide into a top 8 and bottom 6 post- split after 26 League Matches. This alternative model might provide greater jeopardy and interest amongst the bottom 6, in terms of fighting to avoid relegation or play-off. Similarly, it would extend the interest in the Season for Clubs 7 and 8 at the split by providing the opportunity to improve their position in the remaining 14 League Matches to compete for promotion or play-off positions.

Shows complete ignorance of how the Championship works at the moment. It's not untypical for teams to be heading into the last few games with the chance of still being in the promotion play off or the relegation play offs. "greater jeopardy and interest" my arse.


That said, should disruption caused by COVID-19 be significant in Season 2020/21, resulting in it being impossible to play a full round of fixtures, then it may be appropriate to vote by a simple majority, for no promotions or relegations for that Season only.

I wonder how Dundee, Ayr and and any other potential promotion contenders will react to this.

And there appears to be no exit strategy to say what the structure would be after the 2 year temporary period.

It's horse ****, isn't it?

[jacomo]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200526/dfdfad3c067c1b07a7f55472987b938e.jpg

Evening News headlines alluding that Hibs are the Club in trouble, whilst Hearts are stronger than ever. Unbelievable.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


What is more unbelievable is the begging notices you get on every story asking to buy the paper. Total rag these days, sadly.

[WhileTheChief..]

She’s an arrogant swine.

Patronising, waffling guff from start to finish. Who the hell does she think she is.

I can’t imagine many clubs being pleased reading that.

Absolutely zero chance that Hibs will vote in favour, so in a way I’m quite happy this is the best she can come up with.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

I see they now only need 9 teams to agree to it as oppose to 11

Mixed reports and general confusion over this

But more sources seem to be saying it’s an 11-1 vote

[grunt]

Is this the only (veiled) reference to legal action? Or is there more somewhere?


Doing nothing will simply lead to us being forced to take action in the very near future.If that's the only mention, it seems to be getting our Hearts friends all excited that she's threatening legal action.

[Waxy]

I see they now only need 9 teams to agree to it as oppose to 11

No she needs 11.

[Hibees1973]

Would be just like them to use a Global Pandemic to save them from relegation, get wages paid for the duds they have signed and then subsequently bin those they don’t want.

All adds to the legend that is Hearts FC. It was not long ago they went begging to the SPFL to re-arrange around half a dozen home league games to away games because their stand was not ready and did not comply with regulations. How much help do they ask for to get them out of the sh*t.

Budge really has lost the little respect other clubs had in Scotland for them by going down on bended knee begging to be kept in the big league, when sporting performance in the league this season suggests they were more than likely to go down. Only raising their game against us and Rangers and failing to beat the likes of Accies and Ross County, their direct opponents in the bottom 6.

St Johnstone’s game in hand was against Rangers so saints were unlikely to finish above us.

Hearts really are a shambles and have had so many favours to keep them afloat. All this allied to winning 3 Scottish Cups on a mountain of debt (they won nowt the 40 years previous to this), flouting financial regulation rules for decades and getting over £40 million pounds written off. There is only one thing in Scottish football more disorganised than Hearts and that is the governing body, the SPFL. The SPFL have overseen Hearts over the last 20 years and allowed them to get away with serious misdemeanours and down right cheating.

There is no end to this embarrassment.

To use an analogy, these are the kind of neighbours nobody wants.

I am proud to have been born in Edinburgh and a Hibby.

[Waxy]

Hearts missing out on the Europa conference league? Shame.

[matty_f]

Aberdeen have just come out and backed it.

They're going to sneak out of this.

I think you'll find that some of the bigger teams will ok it - the ones that think they'll not be near the bottom 8 - all of those teams will be against it. A season of nothing games followed by a season of double jeopardy with two teams going down?

Turkeys voting for Christmas stuff.

[CB_NO3]

Hearts 4 points from safety = we deserve to stay up.

Dundee 4 points from 2nd = you deserve to stay down.

How does that work?

[SouthMoroccoStu]

So when do we get to vote this down?

[kdhibees1]

I see they now only need 9 teams to agree to it as oppose to 11

''She needs at least 11 premiership clubs to back it just to get it off the ground and will then be relying on winning support of 75 percent of the rest of the country's clubs''

From the daily record

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ann-budge-sends-emotional-hearts-22090771

[Stuart93]

''She needs at least 11 premiership clubs to back it just to get it off the ground and will then be relying on winning support of 75 percent of the rest of the country's clubs''

From the daily record

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ann-budge-sends-emotional-hearts-22090771

BBC quoting 9 yes votes needed

[grunt]

Aberdeen support it apparently

[hulk]

Lots of confusion on whether this needs 11 or 9 to back. Is she indicating below that the money isn’t changing so that would be 9 clubs only needed ? Clear as mud.

“DISTRIBUTION MODEL

The only change to the current model would arise if Clubs in positions 13 and 14 (ie. the 2 additional Clubs promoted to the Premiership) were to see their percentage share of funds increased to bring them more in line with other Premiership Clubs. Currently, the Club in position 12 receives 4.5% in line with the Premiership Distribution Model. The Club at the top of the Championship receives 2.25% in line with the Championship Model. This proposal suggests increasing the percentage for Clubs 13 and 14 to remove this anomaly.“

[Heisenberg]

''She needs at least 11 premiership clubs to back it just to get it off the ground and will then be relying on winning support of 75 percent of the rest of the country's clubs''

From the daily record

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/ann-budge-sends-emotional-hearts-22090771

BBC are saying it’s 9/12 because the number of clubs in the SPFL would stay at 42 and the non payment of the parachute monies would be used to offset the change in distribution of prize money.

If it’s 14-14-16 then it goes to 11/1.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Aberdeen support it apparently

Wonder why

Genuine question

[Waxy]

Its still changing the payment structure.
And what about voting if there’s 14 teams?
It needs in the bin yesterday.

[007]

https://t.co/UazqlKZbDU?amp=1

Bit of reading in that. Looks like she is suggesting the Prem clubs take the financial hit and agree to split the money to accommodate two new clubs into the top league.

Pointless reconstructing now when we don't know when we will restart or how many teams there will be. Chances are we will have to reconstruct again when we do know.

"It isn't about restructuring, it's about survival" Didn't realise Ann Budge had been appointed the saviour of Scottish football. There are working parties that will be deciding how best to move forward, including how the leagues should shape up.

She's saying we'll save £300k from the parachute payment but doesn't put it in context of the redistribution of the prize money that will cost the Premiership teams a lot. I don't see an appendix A which is referred to later however even just to redress the drop off in prize money for 13th and 14th will cost over £1m so that's a net difference of over £700k. I'll take the much smaller and already planned for parachute payment thank you very much.

"Current plan to relegate Hearts" Already relegated actually, funny how the word "expelled" has now been dropped.

Boasting anout how big and how well resourced etc. they are and about how much the Premiership needs Hearts. Not doing herself any favours there by boasting.

"We also have access to highly flexible training facilities. Hearts not being in the Premier League at this time would seriously limit our ability to help Scottish Football."

What is that crap about? As we all know, they are rented (but not always paid for) facilities. What help do they give to Scottish Football that they are threatening to take away?

Bit out of date with her info on other leagues relegating teams or not isn't she?

Out of order to try and use emotional blackmail re job losses, particularly at a time when thousands of people's jobs are at risk. Every year teams get relegated meaning job losses. The Hearts job losses will be mostly down to longstanding mismanagement.

The no relegation is a fallacy. Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar, Cove Rangers, Dundee Ayr United, Arbroath, Dunfermline, Morton, Alloa and Queen of the South would all be moved to leagues where 1st place gets considerably less prize money and last place gets considerably less prize money, as do the places in between, compared to the current league they'll be in. As far as I'm concerned, that's relegation. Though I can't see Appendix A to see how much the Premiership clubs will pay to redress this.

Based on the current prize structure it would be:

The remaining Championship clubs will go from a league where 1st = £562.5k & last = £175k to a league where 1st = £400k & last = £80k.

The 4 League 1 clubs will go from a league where 1st = £125k & last = £70k to a league where 1st = £77.5k & last = £45k.

Even if the proposed redistribution of prize money addreses this, the 11 clubs will still be getting put in leagues of a lower standard as the teams they'll be alongside are from the league below, particularly Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar and Cove Rangers.

She's not even proposing fully how the format would work, merely making suggestions how it might work i.e. suggesting a playoff for the final European place, the split for the Championship & League 1, redistribution of funds. So are we doing another vote later? Vote to do 14-14-14 and then some time further down the line argue over exactly how to do it? The playoff suggestion is frankly ridiculous. Split after 26 games, then play another 10/14 separately then come back together again to playoff. No way should a team playing most of its games against the bottom clubs be given a chance to take away the European place in a shoot out from the 5th best team who has played most of its games against the top clubs. You could be decent for most of the season and end up losing out to a team that has been poor most of the season (but just better than the other bottom teams).

"Concern has also been expressed that Clubs in the bottom half of the Division could lose out on a possible home game against either Celtic or Rangers, which would impact their gate receipt income. This would be offset by virtue of being guaranteed an extra home game."

There's no could lose out or possible about it. They get 3 home games against them now and will get 2 under this proposal. Please be honest about it. As for the extra home game offsetting it. Are you kidding? Are you really suggesting the home walk ups plus the away fans at Hamilton vs Ross County would make up for Rangers or Celtic not coming. Get real! Or tell that to teams like St Johnstone who give the majority of the ground to Celtic and Rangers.

In summary: It's a load of patronising p*$h.

I really hope we don't vote for it.

[Hibeesmad]

How is the rivalry between Inverness and Ross County? Would County fans be happy with the club voting in favour of them getting promoted?

[Aldo]

This proposal is written by an egotistic chairperson of a club with egotistic fans and all this document does is fill their ego’s.

Look at us, we are too big, we’ve got great training facilities, we’ve got great changing rooms, we are a great club, we are too big for the championship.

Patronising, disrespectful comments you’d expect from a club with no class.

Please do the right thing and boot this tae ****!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Not In The Know]

Lots of confusion on whether this needs 11 or 9 to back. Is she indicating below that the money isn’t changing so that would be 9 clubs only needed ? Clear as mud.

“DISTRIBUTION MODEL

The only change to the current model would arise if Clubs in positions 13 and 14 (ie. the 2 additional Clubs promoted to the Premiership) were to see their percentage share of funds increased to bring them more in line with other Premiership Clubs. Currently, the Club in position 12 receives 4.5% in line with the Premiership Distribution Model. The Club at the top of the Championship receives 2.25% in line with the Championship Model. This proposal suggests increasing the percentage for Clubs 13 and 14 to remove this anomaly.“


Shirley the offsetting of the parachute payment only works for one year?

[The Harp Awakes]

BBC are saying it’s 9/12 because the number of clubs in the SPFL would stay at 42 and the non payment of the parachute monies would be used to offset the change in distribution of prize money.

If it’s 14-14-16 then it goes to 11/1.

I agree that's what the BBC are inferring, but I guess the question is; is £300k enough to make up the shortfall and mean a 9/12 vote is all they need?

I still think 9/12 will be tough.

[Lee Marvin]

Aberdeen support it apparently

Where you seeing this?

[jacomo]

"We also have access to highly flexible training facilities. Hearts not being in the Premier League at this time would seriously limit our ability to help Scottish Football.”


She can’t help herself can she? If there’s not a petty wee dig at Hibs, there’s a petty wee threat.

So, so bored with Hearts and their tedious bleating.

[grunt]

Where you seeing this?

https://twitter.com/Kheredine2018/status/1265364059655987201?s=20


Thumbs up for @JamTarts (https://twitter.com/JamTarts)
Ann Budge’s 14-14-14 reconstruction plan from @CormackDavie (https://twitter.com/CormackDavie)
& @AberdeenFC (https://twitter.com/AberdeenFC)
: “Given this is a temporary reconstruction plan, AFC is supportive in principle &, for the survival of Scottish football, I hope every Club feels they can get behind this approach.”

[Dr Jimmy]

Where you seeing this?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/52813339

Saying they support it in principle.

[greenpaper55]

"Adding two teams to the top flight would require a change to the distribution of prize money model, but Budge says this would be offset by Premiership clubs not having to finance the £300,000 parachute payment that Hearts would be due on relegation."

So it would change the prize money, the £ 300,000 is not going to make up for the two additional places that would get SPL cash. Also if it's for two years is there no relegation in the first season? What a crock of you know what.

[Andy74]

I'm actually angry having read that drivel.

The last paragraph about Hearts helping all the other clubs with testing and equipment is just ridiculous.

My hope is that it winds the rest of football up as much as it did me and this gets emptied sharpish.

[Aldo]

"We also have access to highly flexible training facilities. Hearts not being in the Premier League at this time would seriously limit our ability to help Scottish Football.”


She can’t help herself can she? If there’s not a petty wee dig at Hibs, there’s a petty wee threat.

So, so bored with Hearts and their tedious bleating.

So if they were not in the PL they couldn’t or wouldn’t help Scottish Football?? Says it all to me and I hope the other clubs see this.

I just cannot see how this will help Scottish Football. This will affect the finances of pretty much every club and means diluted finances.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[B.H.F.C]

How is anybody going to know what they’re actually voting for? Don’t know how many games you’ll have. Maybe it could include Brora and Kelty or maybe not. Lower leagues can work out how to split their games however they fancy.

It should be chucked in the bin but I have a horrible feeling it might get through...

[Sammy7nil]

Definitely wont get passed.

I do think their has to be reconstruction in the future,our league is on its arse.


Is this the only (veiled) reference to legal action? Or is there more somewhere?

If that's the only mention, it seems to be getting our Hearts friends all excited that she's threatening legal action.

I thought it was more to do with having to restructure as teams confirm they can't compete due to finances.

[Aldo]

I'm actually angry having read that drivel.

The last paragraph about Hearts helping all the other clubs with testing and equipment is just ridiculous.

My hope is that it winds the rest of football up as much as it did me and this gets emptied sharpish.

It’s like they are the saviour of Scottish Football and she’s the Messiah. I do however hope that other clubs realise it’s all a con and it’s all about one team and one team only... them.

Budge did say that no club should be unfairly treated during this yet her proposal has repercussion for more than the 3 it does (relegated teams).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[steviehibsleith]

Lots of confusion on whether this needs 11 or 9 to back. Is she indicating below that the money isn’t changing so that would be 9 clubs only needed ? Clear as mud.

“DISTRIBUTION MODEL

The only change to the current model would arise if Clubs in positions 13 and 14 (ie. the 2 additional Clubs promoted to the Premiership) were to see their percentage share of funds increased to bring them more in line with other Premiership Clubs. Currently, the Club in position 12 receives 4.5% in line with the Premiership Distribution Model. The Club at the top of the Championship receives 2.25% in line with the Championship Model. This proposal suggests increasing the percentage for Clubs 13 and 14 to remove this anomaly.“
I’m confused where the money comes from.
Dundee won league 560k, next season even if bottom they will double their money 1.2 million.
if you then ad two more teams to make 14 You are effectively adding 1million to the premier division Position 12,13,14 will all receive 4.5% which has to come from somewhere. Somewhere being the two lower divisions.

[marinello59]

How is the rivalry between Inverness and Ross County? Would County fans be happy with the club voting in favour of them getting promoted?

I don’t think there would be much of a fuss made.

[Feed McGraw]

I'm starting to think that even if there had been no pandemic crisis and hearts were relegated they might still have tried this reconstruction guff !

[calumhibee1]

So to confirm - this would save Hearts (and Partick Thistle, but that's just a consequence of how she's structured this rather than something she's tried to do).

It would however lead to Clyde, Peterhead and Forfar effectively being relegated to the bottom tier where as in the current structure they're all staying where they are next season - how is that fair exactly?

It would effectively mean Cove Rangers are not being promoted as they'd be stuck in the bottom tier with the vast majority of teams they've just spent the season skelping and also with the prospect of falling out the league completely if they finished bottom next season - a fate which would be absolutely impossible for Cove, Clyde, Peterhead and Forfar as it stands.

Stranraer would also not be saved from relegation like Hearts and Partick have been. They'd be the only team not saved from relegation as Hearts, Partick and Brechin in the other 3 leagues have been.

On top of this, Hearts have officially been relegated - that's confirmed and they're now a Championship team. It's done. It's over. So why are they automatically one of the teams that make up the 14? We already have 12 with DU quite rightly replacing Hearts. Why would it be Inverness and Hearts and not Inverness and Dundee? You either use last season as a basis for making the decision - in which Inverness and Dundee were successful enough to be in a position to potentially be promoted and Hearts were looking likely to be relegated - and you would think it would make more sense to reward good performance than bad meaning Inverness and Dundee up; or you don't use last season as a basis for making the decision and then all 12 Championship clubs - including Hearts, surely have an equal claim to being one of the two teams that make up the top tier?

[green day]

"Adding two teams to the top flight would require a change to the distribution of prize money model, but Budge says this would be offset by Premiership clubs not having to finance the £300,000 parachute payment that Hearts would be due on relegation."

So it would change the prize money, the £ 300,000 is not going to make up for the two additional places that would get SPL cash. Also if it's for two years is there no relegation in the first season? What a crock of you know what.

IIRC the difference between 12th (HEarts) and Champ winners (Dundee Utd) is more than £650k, so the £300k isnt enough.

[Hibeesforever]

So has anyone criticised the proposal yet or is it just Aberdeen that think it is great...did Cormack not lead the group before to say reconstruction wasnt happening because there was a crisis going on!

[Mikey]

She's completely ignored the relegation issue in 2 years time.

[green day]

If you look at the distribution model, it drops 0.25% each place for each of the bottom 6, down to 4.5% for Hearts.


13th and 14th place currently get 2.25% and 1.9% respectively so the financial model must change.

It looks very much like an 11-1 job, Hearts are ******.

[chippy]

She's completely ignored the relegation issue in 2 years time.

Cos it could last longer than 2 years. Does she say when the review should take place ? In between season 1 and 2 or after season 2 ( maybe depending where Hearts are in the league😉)

[Waxy]

She's completely ignored the relegation issue in 2 years time.

No she hasn’t.
She’s saying she doesnt care about the relegation issue in 2 years time because hearts wont be involved. She says our good friend Benny will pump millions in so we can avoid relegation in 2 years. Sort that bit out yourselves, we’ll be ok by then.

[hibeerealist]

Keekback in celebration mode at Chemical Annie's proposal "for saving Scottish Football", why has AB had to do this when Doncaster, on £388K PA, SHOULD HAVE IT IS MAGNIFICENT!!!

No club chairman can read that and not vote for it

Special Officer Doofy

"Going to go against the grain here. If it really is 75% needed, then this is as good as already passed imo. No way four clubs are voting against that."

Their delusion knows no ends and probably why most supporters of other clubs cannot be ar sed with them!!!!

[weecounty hibby]

This does not benefit any other clubs in Scotland except hearts and Partick and in fact looks to actual disadvantage more than that. It is the usual self centred, self absorbed, rubbish that we have all become all too accustomed too from a club that is so badly run they have basically said they would be in crisis if they got relegated. Even after that they are busy telling everyone that they are so big and important that the rest of the premier league needs them. This needs to be voted down and I sincerely hope that Hibernian are one of the clubs to do so.
Do us all a favour hearts and budgie and just **** right off.

[Mikey]

No she hasn’t.
She’s saying she doesnt care about the relegation issue in 2 years time because hearts wont be involved. She says our good friend Benny will pump millions in so we can avoid relegation in 2 years. Sort that bit out yourselves, we’ll be ok by then.

That pretty much sums it up.

Presumably the representatives from Hamilton, St Mirren, Dundee Utd, Ross County, Kilmarnock, Livingston and St Johnstone will want to know the answer.

[calumhibee1]

That pretty much sums it up.

Presumably the representatives from Hamilton, St Mirren, Dundee Utd, Ross County, Kilmarnock, Livingston and St Johnstone will want to know the answer.

Even Hibs. It wouldn’t be outwith the realms of possibility for us to end up in a bottom 3 of the league. Or even a bottom 4 if it was 3 down automatically and one playoff.

[Mikey]

Even Hibs. It wouldn’t be outwith the realms of possibility for us to end up in a bottom 3 of the league. Or even a bottom 4 if it was 3 down automatically and one playoff.

I excluded Hibs because I believe that's a No vote regardless.

[calumhibee1]

I excluded Hibs because I believe that's a No vote regardless.

Ah, true :agree:

[steviehibsleith]

If you look at the distribution model, it drops 0.25% each place for each of the bottom 6, down to 4.5% for Hearts.


13th and 14th place currently get 2.25% and 1.9% respectively so the financial model must change.

It looks very much like an 11-1 job, Hearts are ******.

Yes kinda what my earlier post stated, but reading the Budge statement to get round this and keep the 9-3 vote she wants to increase 13/14 to the 4.5%.

That additional 4.8% 1.4million comes from the two divisions below ?

[angus hibby]

So to confirm - this would save Hearts (and Partick Thistle, but that's just a consequence of how she's structured this rather than something she's tried to do).

It would however lead to Clyde, Peterhead and Forfar effectively being relegated to the bottom tier where as in the current structure they're all staying where they are next season - how is that fair exactly?

It would effectively mean Cove Rangers are not being promoted as they'd be stuck in the bottom tier with the vast majority of teams they've just spent the season skelping and also with the prospect of falling out the league completely if they finished bottom next season - a fate which would be absolutely impossible for Cove, Clyde, Peterhead and Forfar as it stands.

Stranraer would also not be saved from relegation like Hearts and Partick have been. They'd be the only team not saved from relegation as Hearts, Partick and Brechin in the other 3 leagues have been.

On top of this, Hearts have officially been relegated - that's confirmed and they're now a Championship team. It's done. It's over. So why are they automatically one of the teams that make up the 14? We already have 12 with DU quite rightly replacing Hearts. Why would it be Inverness and Hearts and not Inverness and Dundee? You either use last season as a basis for making the decision - in which Inverness and Dundee were successful enough to be in a position to potentially be promoted and Hearts were looking likely to be relegated - and you would think it would make more sense to reward good performance than bad meaning Inverness and Dundee up; or you don't use last season as a basis for making the decision and then all 12 Championship clubs - including Hearts, surely have an equal claim to being one of the two teams that make up the top tier?

Exactly. If Budge’s plans are given the green light, Forfar, Clyde and Peterhead would suddenly all find themselves one bad season away from being out the senior game! Season just past, they sat just below mid table in League One!!

[hibeerealist]

I thought it was more to do with having to restructure as teams confirm they can't compete due to finances.


I get that, IF there are teams in the Championship that are saying they cannot start the season behind closed doors it would appear that Hertz are being further punished, however, the answer, Annie, is very simple;

12 TEAM SPL and the championship can add teams ready to play BCD AND REMOVE THOSE THAT ARE NOT, YOU MIGHT END UP WITH 10/12 MAYBE 14 SORTED.

ICT have NOT earned an SPL place yet you want to promote them, is that because they were part of your wee cabal causing trouble before the first vote? The championship will vote against 8-2, they have no time for ICT or its MD.

Saving Scottish football does NOT need a 14 team SPL, once you accept that you can run along and prepare the Duncan's 11 for championship duty.

[G B Young]

So to confirm - this would save Hearts (and Partick Thistle, but that's just a consequence of how she's structured this rather than something she's tried to do).

It would however lead to Clyde, Peterhead and Forfar effectively being relegated to the bottom tier where as in the current structure they're all staying where they are next season - how is that fair exactly?

It would effectively mean Cove Rangers are not being promoted as they'd be stuck in the bottom tier with the vast majority of teams they've just spent the season skelping and also with the prospect of falling out the league completely if they finished bottom next season - a fate which would be absolutely impossible for Cove, Clyde, Peterhead and Forfar as it stands.

Stranraer would also not be saved from relegation like Hearts and Partick have been. They'd be the only team not saved from relegation as Hearts, Partick and Brechin in the other 3 leagues have been.

On top of this, Hearts have officially been relegated - that's confirmed and they're now a Championship team. It's done. It's over. So why are they automatically one of the teams that make up the 14? We already have 12 with DU quite rightly replacing Hearts. Why would it be Inverness and Hearts and not Inverness and Dundee? You either use last season as a basis for making the decision - in which Inverness and Dundee were successful enough to be in a position to potentially be promoted and Hearts were looking likely to be relegated - and you would think it would make more sense to reward good performance than bad meaning Inverness and Dundee up; or you don't use last season as a basis for making the decision and then all 12 Championship clubs - including Hearts, surely have an equal claim to being one of the two teams that make up the top tier?

Spot on.

Budge's arrogance is nauseating.

[Billy Whizz]

I'm actually angry having read that drivel.

The last paragraph about Hearts helping all the other clubs with testing and equipment is just ridiculous.

My hope is that it winds the rest of football up as much as it did me and this gets emptied sharpish.

And they might not even be able to get back into their multi sport training complex for a bit yet!
I’m sure they are well down the Oriam’s responsibilities

[Real Emerald]

For such a huge important club they don’t half do a lot of begging and grovelling in desperation. Until of course they’re safe back in the top league and wouldn’t give two hoots for the diddy teams facing relegation in two years. DESPERATION

[Since90+2]

The BBC article now says 11 Premiership votes needed.

[Aldo]

The BBC article now says 11 Premiership votes needed.

Pleasing. Get this pish tae **** ASAP. Mon Hibs you know what to do!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[660]

The BBC article now says 11 Premiership votes needed.

Hibs and St Mirren. Done. Goodbye Budge and Hearts you shower of arrogant cretins

[we are hibs]

The BBC article now says 11 Premiership votes needed.

It doesnt. Thats for 14-14-16.


Just seen that theres another article saying its 11.

[ScottB]

Is it just me, or does she torpedo her own plan?

Suggests 14-14-14, but then says that it might end up 14-10-something, or even something-something, depending on how many teams can’t take part in behind closed doors football, but she doesn’t know?

She being the person in charge of league reconstruction, doesn’t know how many teams she needs a solution for. So essentially she’s picked a number, had a go, but offers no guarantees that we won’t need to reconstruct again next month?!

This is embarrassing.

[007]

It doesnt. Thats for 14-14-16

She's proposing a change to the financial distribution so I am fairly sure it needs 11-1 for 14-14-14 too.

Just seen your edit. :thumbsup:

[green day]

She's proposing a change to the financial distribution so I am fairly sure it needs 11-1 for 14-14-14 too.

Dont be fairly sure - you are 100% right.

[Clarence]

Hearts really don’t behave in a classy way do they. Surely in order to foster support and credibility, there should be an attempt to subjectively give an appraisal of the situation, or even the illusion of objectivity, but this document is a love letter to themselves.

[04Sauzee]

Ex St Mirren chairman Gilmour tweets

Agree entirely, if change was for the better of football, would have a close look at it, for 2 seasons, you are having a laugh, 14 not much better than 12, would only go for a permenant deal and would prefer 16.
This would not even be discussed if Hamilton, Ross County or Saints

[Heisenberg]

So the BBC ****ed up and it is actually 11 votes required? Good news.

[calumhibee1]

Ex St Mirren chairman Gilmour tweets

Agree entirely, if change was for the better of football, would have a close look at it, for 2 seasons, you are having a laugh, 14 not much better than 12, would only go for a permenant deal and would prefer 16.
This would not even be discussed if Hamilton, Ross County or Saints

Hopefully gives in insight into the smaller clubs thinking.

[The 90+2]

When’s the vote?

[weecounty hibby]

So the BBC ****ed up and it is actually 11 votes required? Good news.

Good news. Hibs and St Mirren at least, Ross Co, Hamilton, St Johnstone, Kilmarnock, Livingston probably as well. **** of hearts you shower of begging losers. An embarrassment to Scottish football with all your tantrums

[007]

So the proposal is for temporary for 2 years but in 12 months time there's to be a vote on whether or not to make it permanent from season 22/23. That vote will need a 13-1 majority to make it permanent and it is a safe bet Hearts would vote against it. 13-0 from the rest would therefore be required. Can't see any of the clubs who want a permanent change falling for that.

I wasn't expecting it to be up to much but I'm pleasantly surprised at quite how bad it is. Apart from the fact its full of ifs, buts and maybes so it isn't really a proper proposal you can vote on, she's actually made it very easy to vote 'no'.

[Waxy]

As if things aren't uncertain enough? This would make things a whole lot worse.
Even hearts fans must admit this isn't for the good of the game, in fact it would be very bad for the game.
Lets get it kicked out so we can start planning next season properly

[Irish_Steve]

I couldn't be arsed reading all that guff but judging from what others have said on here, Hearts would stay up and they would invite ICT to make up the 14. How arrogant are they?? They obviously don't understand irony either. Get them down and keep them down

[B.H.F.C]

So the BBC ****ed up and it is actually 11 votes required? Good news.

Hope so. 11 teams don’t vote for this, no way. 9 gives it half a chance.

I know we will be accused of being biased because of who is involved. But the proposal, itself, is garbage.

[Mikey]

When’s the vote?

I doubt it'll get that far, assuming it is 11-1.

[hibeerealist]

Is it just me, or does she torpedo her own plan?

Suggests 14-14-14, but then says that it might end up 14-10-something, or even something-something, depending on how many teams can’t take part in behind closed doors football, but she doesn’t know?

She being the person in charge of league reconstruction, doesn’t know how many teams she needs a solution for. So essentially she’s picked a number, had a go, but offers no guarantees that we won’t need to reconstruct again next month?!

This is embarrassing.

She / Hertz could not give a flying F how many teams are in the Championship/league 1 or 2 THEY ONLY WANT A 14 TEAM SPL AS THAT SAVES THEM FROM RELEGATION!! Everyone except Hertz/Duncan's can see this - no chance it will carry and they will NOT go to court either - just dropping in their usual threats.

Despicable club, I thought that the Mercer s h it then the Vlad nonsense would have brought some humility/realism to that club, clearly not as AB is cut from the same cloth (if she is not then her Hertz cronies surrounding her have moulded her into that cloth)!

Do not see many Club Chairman being fooled by this stupid proposal.

GGTTH

[Hibeesforever]

I doubt it'll get that far, assuming it is 11-1.

I am very sceptical it is 11-1. Budge would be foolish to propose on those terms...smoke filled deal with Aberdeen for 9-3 more likely....does the spfl not release a statement on voting, it would clear things up!

[JeMeSouviens]

She used the R word :greengrin

Desperate stuff and doomed to fail. Shame.

[JeMeSouviens]

When’s the vote?

Doubt there will be one. When it’s obvious it’s nowhere near the numbers it’ll be dropped.

[Heckys Wheel]

I am very sceptical it is 11-1. Budge would be foolish to propose on those terms...smoke filled deal with Aberdeen for 9-3 more likely....does the spfl not release a statement on voting, it would clear things up!

Yep, I agree. Have a feeling it’ll need a 9-3 vote and for the first time since this whole thing started, I’m beginning to think she might get it.

All comes down to the money distribution but I think she’ll be proposing to include the parachute payment in the sums to prevent making changes to the money distribution.

That’s the crux of the matter now, she needs to find a way not to change the distribution as I think she knows she can get 9 votes.

[CapitalGreen]

Yep, I agree. Have a feeling it’ll need a 9-3 vote and for the first time since this whole thing started, I’m beginning to think she might get it.

All comes down to the money distribution but I think she’ll be proposing to include the parachute payment in the sums to prevent making changes to the money distribution.

That’s the crux of the matter now, she needs to find a way not to change the distribution as I think she knows she can get 9 votes.

What happens to the parachute payments in 2 years when 3 teams get relegated? Surely they’ll be higher than what they are now for one team and as a result all teams in the league will receive lower prize money to adjust.

[jacomo]

Is it just me, or does she torpedo her own plan?

Suggests 14-14-14, but then says that it might end up 14-10-something, or even something-something, depending on how many teams can’t take part in behind closed doors football, but she doesn’t know?

She being the person in charge of league reconstruction, doesn’t know how many teams she needs a solution for. So essentially she’s picked a number, had a go, but offers no guarantees that we won’t need to reconstruct again next month?!

This is embarrassing.


We need a Budget STATEMENT to make it abundantly clear for us simple fans. Best make it a long one.

[Heckys Wheel]

What happens to the parachute payments in 2 years when 3 teams get relegated? Surely they’ll be higher than what they are now for one team and as a result all teams in the league will receive lower prize money to adjust.

No idea mate. It seems she’s playing the “deal with it when it comes” card with regards to relegating 3/4 teams in couple years time though.

I’ve said it before but if she saves them from relegation, it would be the most Hibs thing ever to finish third bottom in two years time.

[hfc rd]

Yep, I agree. Have a feeling it’ll need a 9-3 vote and for the first time since this whole thing started, I’m beginning to think she might get it.

All comes down to the money distribution but I think she’ll be proposing to include the parachute payment in the sums to prevent making changes to the money distribution.

That’s the crux of the matter now, she needs to find a way not to change the distribution as I think she knows she can get 9 votes.


Can’t see anywhere that it states 9-3 in favour required for her proposal to be passed.

BBC have the following:

For the proposal to pass, it would require 11 of the 12 Premiership clubs to vote in favour, as well as eight of 10 in the Championship and 15 of 20 in the bottom two tiers.

[roo62]

Yep, I agree. Have a feeling it’ll need a 9-3 vote and for the first time since this whole thing started, I’m beginning to think she might get it.

All comes down to the money distribution but I think she’ll be proposing to include the parachute payment in the sums to prevent making changes to the money distribution.

That’s the crux of the matter now, she needs to find a way not to change the distribution as I think she knows she can get 9 votes.
Don't panic Hibs, St Mirren, St Johnstone and Ross County will kill it

[Andy74]

Doubt there will be one. When it’s obvious it’s nowhere near the numbers it’ll be dropped.

Hopefully. Interesting that this seemed to kick off again last week as a resolution that would be delivered to the SPFL. Now it appears to be a letter asking for feedback. It is a long way from something that can be voted on just now.

[The 90+2]

I doubt it'll get that far, assuming it is 11-1.

Won’t it have to be voted against regardless or can clubs just give the indication tomorrow that it’s not got a chance?

[Waxy]

Yep, I agree. Have a feeling it’ll need a 9-3 vote and for the first time since this whole thing started, I’m beginning to think she might get it.

All comes down to the money distribution but I think she’ll be proposing to include the parachute payment in the sums to prevent making changes to the money distribution.

That’s the crux of the matter now, she needs to find a way not to change the distribution as I think she knows she can get 9 votes.The whole things a complete mess.How can any club vote for that? Except Aberdeen who dont seem to have much democracy.

[007]

I'm actually angry having read that drivel.

The last paragraph about Hearts helping all the other clubs with testing and equipment is just ridiculous.

My hope is that it winds the rest of football up as much as it did me and this gets emptied sharpish.

It made me angry too, which I suppose is better than it making me worried that enough clubs might buy into it. If this mince gets voted through then I'd definitely suspect there's something dodgy going on.

[The 90+2]

Doubt there will be one. When it’s obvious it’s nowhere near the numbers it’ll be dropped.

Makes sense, thanks mate. 👍

Be great if one of the ceos from a team in league 2 did get to vote and took the piss out the patronising ********s:

“Number 1 on the list, no to reconstruction from Montrose FC”
“Next on the agenda, club members vote against Tea Cakes replacing wafers in the grounds kiosk”

[Heckys Wheel]

Can’t see anywhere that it states 9-3 in favour required for her proposal to be passed.

BBC have the following:

For the proposal to pass, it would require 11 of the 12 Premiership clubs to vote in favour, as well as eight of 10 in the Championship and 15 of 20 in the bottom two tiers.

The BBC don’t know. They are guessing.

It depends on the proposal what the requirement is.

[calumhibee1]

Can’t see anywhere that it states 9-3 in favour required for her proposal to be passed.

BBC have the following:

For the proposal to pass, it would require 11 of the 12 Premiership clubs to vote in favour, as well as eight of 10 in the Championship and 15 of 20 in the bottom two tiers.

So from the bottom two leagues you’d presume the bottom 4 Of League One and Cove would all be a no. The top 6 of league one would all be yes. So one team in the bottom tier could finish it as well?

[Waxy]

Won’t it have to be voted against regardless or can clubs just give the indication tomorrow that it’s not got a chance?

I was under the impression it had to be backed by three clubs first? Thats only if the SPFL board have deemed it competent.Can they deem this competent?

[Onion]

Can’t see anywhere that it states 9-3 in favour required for her proposal to be passed.

BBC have the following:

For the proposal to pass, it would require 11 of the 12 Premiership clubs to vote in favour, as well as eight of 10 in the Championship and 15 of 20 in the bottom two tiers.

Well, they've changed that from their earlier report which stated 9/12 needed.

To think we pay a licence fee for this bunch of BBC amateurs to spread this crap.

[The 90+2]

I was under the impression it had to be backed by three clubs first? Thats only if the SPFL board have deemed it competent.Can they deem this competent?

I don’t think the SPFL board would have deemed the investigation by the huns contempt when that was backed by two other clubs? I’m not sure at all how it works to be honest, the whole thing is completely scunnering me. It’s like they are boring everyone into staying in the top league.

[Andy74]

I was under the impression it had to be backed by three clubs first? Thats only if the SPFL board have deemed it competent.Can they deem this competent?

They need to have an actual resolution to be voted on first - this appears to be just a rambling request for feedback.

They would need to submit the wording of the resolution and the members backing it before it can then be assessed and voted on.

It could, however, be killed off quickly if enough clubs told her to bolt.

[The 90+2]

Well, they've changed that from their earlier report which stated 9/12 needed.

To think we pay a licence fee for this bunch of BBC amateurs to spread this crap.

Isn’t the 9/3 thing coming from Hearts covering any financial shortfall by not getting a parachute payment? Completely missing the point that the payment structure will have to be changed regardless of this and if that’s the case it will always need an 11/1 vote.

[The Spaceman]

Getting absolutely panned on Pie & Bovril by fans across the board for her comment about Hearts being needed by the SPFL and not the Championship. Think that comment alone has completely killed any remaining chances of them surviving this. Wonderful.

[007]

So to confirm - this would save Hearts (and Partick Thistle, but that's just a consequence of how she's structured this rather than something she's tried to do).

It would however lead to Clyde, Peterhead and Forfar effectively being relegated to the bottom tier where as in the current structure they're all staying where they are next season - how is that fair exactly?

It would effectively mean Cove Rangers are not being promoted as they'd be stuck in the bottom tier with the vast majority of teams they've just spent the season skelping and also with the prospect of falling out the league completely if they finished bottom next season - a fate which would be absolutely impossible for Cove, Clyde, Peterhead and Forfar as it stands.

Stranraer would also not be saved from relegation like Hearts and Partick have been. They'd be the only team not saved from relegation as Hearts, Partick and Brechin in the other 3 leagues have been.

On top of this, Hearts have officially been relegated - that's confirmed and they're now a Championship team. It's done. It's over. So why are they automatically one of the teams that make up the 14? We already have 12 with DU quite rightly replacing Hearts. Why would it be Inverness and Hearts and not Inverness and Dundee? You either use last season as a basis for making the decision - in which Inverness and Dundee were successful enough to be in a position to potentially be promoted and Hearts were looking likely to be relegated - and you would think it would make more sense to reward good performance than bad meaning Inverness and Dundee up; or you don't use last season as a basis for making the decision and then all 12 Championship clubs - including Hearts, surely have an equal claim to being one of the two teams that make up the top tier?

As well as shafting Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar and Cove, it also puts 7 Championship teams in a league with 7 League 1 teams. I'd be fuming at that if I supported one of the 7 Championship teams. Particularly as Hearts and Inverness, 2 of the 3 clubs conspiring for null and void, both benefit at their expense. I don't think they'll have forgotten what Inverness were claiming.

https://www.dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=Chairman%60s_Statement_&ID=11909

[The Harp Awakes]

Getting absolutely panned on Pie & Bovril by fans across the board for her comment about Hearts being needed by the SPFL and not the Championship. Think that comment alone has completely killed any remaining chances of them surviving this. Wonderful.

Yes, very arrogant and a complete own goal by Fudge.

[007]

IIRC the difference between 12th (HEarts) and Champ winners (Dundee Utd) is more than £650k, so the £300k isnt enough.

And double it for Inverness coming up too.

[roo62]

As well as shafting Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar and Cove, it also puts 7 Championship teams in a league with 7 League 1 teams. I'd be fuming at that if I supported one of the 7 Championship teams. Particularly as Hearts and Inverness, 2 of the 3 clubs conspiring for null and void, both benefit at their expense. I don't think they'll have forgotten what Inverness were claiming.

https://www.dafc.co.uk/story.php?t=Chairman%60s_Statement_&ID=11909

Agreed. Budge and Gardiner have lost all respect from the majority of clubs. No chance this will get a look in.

[The 90+2]

Getting absolutely panned on Pie & Bovril by fans across the board for her comment about Hearts being needed by the SPFL and not the Championship. Think that comment alone has completely killed any remaining chances of them surviving this. Wonderful.

Bit of a ****ter for the championship clubs trying to go out their way to ensure games are played before 2021 for the benefit of the big team.

[007]

Keekback in celebration mode at Chemical Annie's proposal "for saving Scottish Football", why has AB had to do this when Doncaster, on £388K PA, SHOULD HAVE IT IS MAGNIFICENT!!!

No club chairman can read that and not vote for it

Special Officer Doofy

"Going to go against the grain here. If it really is 75% needed, then this is as good as already passed imo. No way four clubs are voting against that."

Their delusion knows no ends and probably why most supporters of other clubs cannot be ar sed with them!!!!

I remember that lot thought Cathro spoke well. The maroon tinted spectacles are well and truly superglued on.

[Onion]

Getting absolutely panned on Pie & Bovril by fans across the board for her comment about Hearts being needed by the SPFL and not the Championship. Think that comment alone has completely killed any remaining chances of them surviving this. Wonderful.

Just at losing The Rangers was going to be Armageddon.

IMO, this has been the most enlightening and enjoyable thing from the last 8 years. Scottish Football has proven beyond doubt that it doesn't need The Rangers - and that really pisses them off. And Prem football can live without the Hearts.

The delusion of Sevco and Hearts is delicious and watching them both squirm, while the rest of th real world revolves, is a joy :thumbsup:

[bingo70]

https://twitter.com/bbcscotnine/status/1265393288783241221?s=21

Stenhousemuir chairman not impressed at all and doesn’t think it’s got a chance of getting voted through.

[H18 SFR]

I’m not on social media, have any other teams other than Aberdeen commented about their thoughts?

[steviehibsleith]

If you look at the distribution model, it drops 0.25% each place for each of the bottom 6, down to 4.5% for Hearts.


13th and 14th place currently get 2.25% and 1.9% respectively so the financial model must change.

It looks very much like an 11-1 job, Hearts are ******.

Yes kinda what my earlier post stated, but reading the Budge statement to get round this and keep the 9-3 vote she wants to increase 13/14 to the 4.5%.

That additional 4.8% 1.4million comes from the two divisions below ?

[bingo70]

I’m not on social media, have any other teams other than Aberdeen commented about their thoughts?

Stenhousemuir don’t like it.

Don’t think any other premier league teams have though.

[weecounty hibby]

Yes kinda what my earlier post stated, but reading the Budge statement to get round this and keep the 9-3 vote she wants to increase 13/14 to the 4.5%.

That additional 4.8% 1.4million comes from the two divisions below ?

So for the benefit of the whole of Scottish football she is taking money from the poorest clubs to give to the top league. Is that right? And when I say best for the whole of Scottish football what I really mean is the good of hearts.

[JimBHibees]

Ex St Mirren chairman Gilmour tweets

Agree entirely, if change was for the better of football, would have a close look at it, for 2 seasons, you are having a laugh, 14 not much better than 12, would only go for a permenant deal and would prefer 16.
This would not even be discussed if Hamilton, Ross County or Saints

He is spot on.

[bingo70]

https://twitter.com/scottburns75/status/1265399410076405763?s=21

“I would feel really aggrieved if I was @CoveRangersFC and Ann Budge’s reconstruction plan goes through. Team wins the league but still ends up in the bottom tier. I thought reconstruction was to tackle the unjust. #doublestandards“

Think that journalist has a pretty good reputation in Scottish football, impression I’m getting is that Hearts seem to be losing a lot of the good will they had when relegation was called

[007]

They need to have an actual resolution to be voted on first - this appears to be just a rambling request for feedback.

They would need to submit the wording of the resolution and the members backing it before it can then be assessed and voted on.

It could, however, be killed off quickly if enough clubs told her to bolt.

I agree it isn't anywhere near being in a suitable format to be voted on however I think we need it to go to a vote rather than enough clubs telling her to bolt. That's what happened before and she went running to the teacher saying some bigger boys and girls said 'no deal' before she had a chance to say her piece.

It needs to be officially voted 'no thanks' to shut down this sideshow completely so the clubs can then focus their attention on planning how best to restart football.

[JimBHibees]

Hopefully gives in insight into the smaller clubs thinking.

Fitzpatrick and Goodwin plus Gilmour although not currently connected with the the club have been crystal clear in terms of this so definite no imo.

Wtf are Aberdeen doing coming out with a statement so soon seems quite weird behaviour from a club who effectively ensured the 11 1 votr remained. New guy seems a bit of a clown.

[JimBHibees]

No idea mate. It seems she’s playing the “deal with it when it comes” card with regards to relegating 3/4 teams in couple years time though.

I’ve said it before but if she saves them from relegation, it would be the most Hibs thing ever to finish third bottom in two years time.

Budge is a moron. Utterly clueless. It is an 11 1vote. Sooner this is punted the better.

[Irish_Steve]

https://twitter.com/scottburns75/status/1265399410076405763?s=21

“I would feel really aggrieved if I was @CoveRangersFC and Ann Budge’s reconstruction plan goes through. Team wins the league but still ends up in the bottom tier. I thought reconstruction was to tackle the unjust. #doublestandards“

Think that journalist has a pretty good reputation in Scottish football, impression I’m getting is that Hearts seem to be losing a lot of the good will they had when relegation was called

Ha ha ha. #doublestandards - everyone knows this is just for Hearts benefit and no-one elses. They dont care about the lower leagues as long as they are safe. I hope the BBC are filming her reaction for the DVD tomorrow.

[Glory Lurker]

Stenhousemuir don’t like it.



Rock the Casbah.

[JimBHibees]

Yes, very arrogant and a complete own goal by Fudge.

She isn't the brightest.

[Eyrie]

Rock the Casbah.

Should Hearts stay or should they go has only one answer.

Good bye.

[JeMeSouviens]

Hopefully. Interesting that this seemed to kick off again last week as a resolution that would be delivered to the SPFL. Now it appears to be a letter asking for feedback. It is a long way from something that can be voted on just now.

Exactly! The detailed proposal is Hearts stay up and mumbly, mumbly, some other things, eh ... aren’t Hearts great btw.

Risible is being kind.

[Not In The Know]

The whole things a complete mess.How can any club vote for that? Except Aberdeen who dont seem to have much democracy.
Let’s be honest it’s all about self interest. Hibs and hearts taking points and sponsors of each other benefits Aberdeen.

[007]

She isn't the brightest.

Other teams' fans aren't impressed at being told how brilliant Hearts are, in the same way the Hearts fan's lap it up. Who'd have thunk it?

[007]

Fitzpatrick and Goodwin plus Gilmour although not currently connected with the the club have been crystal clear in terms of this so definite no imo.

Wtf are Aberdeen doing coming out with a statement so soon seems quite weird behaviour from a club who effectively ensured the 11 1 votr remained. New guy seems a bit of a clown.

I'm assuming Dave Cormack didn't even bother reading it. He already said he'd support a temporary reconstruction.

Haven't looked at their forum (don't even know what there's is) but surely their fans don't agree with him? I'd have thought they'd have similar views to the majority of Hibs fans on this but perhaps not feel quite as strongly about it.

[green day]

Yes kinda what my earlier post stated, but reading the Budge statement to get round this and keep the 9-3 vote she wants to increase 13/14 to the 4.5%.

That additional 4.8% 1.4million comes from the two divisions below ?


I dont think that she would get any votes from the lower leagues at all if that was her proposal.

[RyeSloan]

Yes kinda what my earlier post stated, but reading the Budge statement to get round this and keep the 9-3 vote she wants to increase 13/14 to the 4.5%.

That additional 4.8% 1.4million comes from the two divisions below ?

So she is proposing splitting the prize money to the equivalent of 109% then? [emoji2962]

[we are hibs]

Inverness and their CEO's conduct throughout this entire farce has been dodgy as ****. As i said when Rangers wanted their investigation, those accusing are the ones with something to hide.

[Mr Grieves]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8359477/amp/Scottish-Championship-clubs-set-REJECT-proposal-Hearts-owner-Ann-Budge-three-leagues-14.html?ito=amp_twitter_share-top&__twitter_impression=true

[Hibeesmad]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8359477/amp/Scottish-Championship-clubs-set-REJECT-proposal-Hearts-owner-Ann-Budge-three-leagues-14.html?ito=amp_twitter_share-top&__twitter_impression=true

Tick tock. Watching Hearts fail in everything they aim to achieve has been the highlight of this global pandemic.

[we are hibs]

And that should be the end of that. Time to focus on getting football back.

[CapitalGreen]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8359477/amp/Scottish-Championship-clubs-set-REJECT-proposal-Hearts-owner-Ann-Budge-three-leagues-14.html?ito=amp_twitter_share-top&__twitter_impression=true

Hilarious that Scott Gardiner may have messed up the chance of his team getting promoted by backing the Rangers and pissing off the rest of the Championship in the process.

He should add that to his CV alongside forgetting to order new seats for Tynecastle.

[007]

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/sport/sportsnews/article-8359477/amp/Scottish-Championship-clubs-set-REJECT-proposal-Hearts-owner-Ann-Budge-three-leagues-14.html?ito=amp_twitter_share-top&__twitter_impression=true

That's good to know but I'd almost prefer not to. I'd rather they just did their torpedoing at the ballot box instead of giving her a reason to go away and then come back with yet another variation. I hope this one gets put to a vote so it's decided one way or another.

Plus, highly unlikely it will be made permanent so they will be facing mass relegation in 2 years time. Hearts and Aberdeen are already virtual stick-ons to vote against making it permanent.

[Hibeesmad]

That's good to know but I'd almost prefer not to. I'd rather they just did their torpedoing at the ballot box instead of giving her a reason to go away and then come back with yet another variation. I hope this one gets put to a vote so it's decided one way or another.

Surely this is the final straw 😂 hopefully we get more of a clear idea by the government in the next couple of weeks as to when we can stamp a date on the new season beginning. Then it's a case of fixtures being confirmed.

Dundee Utd v Hibs
Hearts v Alloa

To kick the season off.

[The Harp Awakes]

Hilarious that Scott Gardiner may have messed up the chance of his team getting promoted by backing the Rangers and pissing off the rest of the Championship in the process.

He should add that to his CV alongside forgetting to order new seats for Tynecastle.

Well done agent Gardiner. Job done.

[007]

Hilarious that Scott Gardiner may have messed up the chance of his team getting promoted by backing the Rangers and pissing off the rest of the Championship in the process.

He should add that to his CV alongside forgetting to order new seats for Tynecastle.

He certainly played a big part in it. The Jambo clowns just aren't getting it. First they try and conspire to get the league null and voided. Then when that doesn't work they chuck their toys out the prams and start making wild accusations. Next they start pleading for sympathy whilst also threatening legal action and now they're expecting clubs to drastically change from a proven format that works to a nonsensical mishmash of a proposed format that isn't actually a proposed format due to all the ifs, buts and maybes in it. No wonder so many clubs aren't on their side with this.

Looking forward to the court case where they state as part of their argument that no other leagues are doing relegation except for France whose government are backing the legal case against the league.


Surely this is the final straw 😂 hopefully we get more of a clear idea by the government in the next couple of weeks as to when we can stamp a date on the new season beginning. Then it's a case of fixtures being confirmed.

Dundee Utd v Hibs
Hearts v Alloa

To kick the season off.

😂

[Tambo]

Surely this is the final straw 😂 hopefully we get more of a clear idea by the government in the next couple of weeks as to when we can stamp a date on the new season beginning. Then it's a case of fixtures being confirmed.

Dundee Utd v Hibs
Hearts v Alloa

To kick the season off.

Hibs on sky and hearts on bbc scotland.

[Earlydelivery]

This mornings Daily Mail reporting that championship clubs are set to ‘torpedo ‘ this .

[Heisenberg]

I hadn’t even considered the havoc it would cause in the lower leagues if they were to try and move them back to the way they are just now in a couple of years. No wonder they aren’t keen. Also not surprised they wouldn’t be keen to have 14 teams fight it out for one automatic promotion spot.

[calumhibee1]

I hadn’t even considered the havoc it would cause in the lower leagues if they were to try and move them back to the way they are just now in a couple of years. No wonder they aren’t keen. Also not surprised they wouldn’t be keen to have 14 teams fight it out for one automatic promotion spot.

Neither had I. Once our 3 drop down to square us up the Championship would need to remove 6 teams get back to where they were 😂

Good one Budgie.

[Peevemor]

Hopefully this will get knocked on the head this morning where it's due to be discussed by the SPFL board. They'll already be aware of clubs who will definitely be voting against - if there are enough the board will hopefully persuade Budge to withdraw the motion/proposal.

[jacomo]

Maybe Budge should copy Dominic Cummings and do a press conference outside on the piazza plaza, explaining why the rules shouldn’t apply to her.

[calumhibee1]

The main problem I’ve got with all the bad press it’s getting is - will this give her the opportunity to decide to give it another go? This one hasn’t went to a vote yet, could she just decide she’s changing it based on the feedback she’s had?

[Gloucester Hibs]

That's good to know but I'd almost prefer not to. I'd rather they just did their torpedoing at the ballot box instead of giving her a reason to go away and then come back with yet another variation. I hope this one gets put to a vote so it's decided one way or another.

Plus, highly unlikely it will be made permanent so they will be facing mass relegation in 2 years time. Hearts and Aberdeen are already virtual stick-ons to vote against making it permanent.

Spot on. This shouldn’t be an iterative procedure where Budge leaks her proposal, gets feedback, then adjusts it accordingly and goes again. Just put the damn thing to a vote!

[Kojock]

Hopefully this will get knocked on the head this morning where it's due to be discussed by the SPFL board. They'll already be aware of clubs who will definitely be voting against - if there are enough the board will hopefully persuade Budge to withdraw the motion/proposal.

Part of me wants it to go to a vote and it to be hit with a resounding NO, from all divisions. This let’s Budge know what the rest of Scottish football thinks of her selfish proposal whilst putting Hear7s back in their place.

[brog]

The thing is, after all the effort with a dedicated team looking into reconstruction, they came up with a proposal which has been discussed on here countless times over the years. Even Hibs Net however never thought it should only last 2 years! Just nonsense!!

[Peevemor]

Part of me wants it to go to a vote and it to be hit with a resounding NO, from all divisions. This let’s Budge know what the rest of Scottish football thinks of her selfish proposal whilst putting Hear7s back in their place.

The problem with that will be the years of unnecessary bad feeling. If she withdraws citing a lack of support then there will be no need for clubs to formalise their positions.

For me that's what she should do if she really has the good of Scottish football in mind.

[brog]

Really can't get my head round why Cormack from Aberdeen thinks a temporary reconstruction works. I can't see any upside for the Sheep!!

[calumhibee1]

Saw this on Pie & Bovril from a St Mirren fan:

“For her plan to go through, in the 21/22 season you would be doing the following:

Relegate 3 Premier league sides to get back to 12. 3 down 1 up.

Have teams fighting it out for 1 promotion spot in a 14 team championship.

Relegate 7 teams from the same 14 team championship.

Have teams vying for 1 promotion spot from the 14 team league 1.

Relegate 10 teams from the 14 team league 1.

So in a best case scenario (not even including possible playoffs which could lead to more promotion and relegation) that would mean in 2021/22, you'll have a situation where 2 teams across Scottish football (not including HL/LL) will be promoted and at least 20 out of 42 teams across the board are going to be relegated.

All to save Hearts. Absolutely ****ing ludicrous. This old ****** should be booted into the nearest body of water immediately. “

[green day]

Hopefully this will get knocked on the head this morning where it's due to be discussed by the SPFL board. They'll already be aware of clubs who will definitely be voting against - if there are enough the board will hopefully persuade Budge to withdraw the motion/proposal.

Although Budge will probably then get Partick and Stranraer on board as long as the SPFL say it is competent - even if they think its nonsense.

We then have a couple more weeks of this pish

All as part of Budges plan to kick the can down the road until clubs start to go bust.

[Mikey]

Saw this on Pie & Bovril from a St Mirren fan:

“For her plan to go through, in the 21/22 season you would be doing the following:

Relegate 3 Premier league sides to get back to 12. 3 down 1 up.

Have teams fighting it out for 1 promotion spot in a 14 team championship.

Relegate 7 teams from the same 14 team championship.

Have teams vying for 1 promotion spot from the 14 team league 1.

Relegate 10 teams from the 14 team league 1.

So in a best case scenario (not even including possible playoffs which could lead to more promotion and relegation) that would mean in 2021/22, you'll have a situation where 2 teams across Scottish football (not including HL/LL) will be promoted and at least 20 out of 42 teams across the board are going to be relegated.

All to save Hearts. Absolutely ****ing ludicrous. This old ****** should be booted into the nearest body of water immediately. “

And that's the sort of detail she completely left out of her proposal because it's so ridiculous.

It's time for the SPFL to draw a line under it so we can all move on.

[Not In The Know]

Saw this on Pie & Bovril from a St Mirren fan:

“For her plan to go through, in the 21/22 season you would be doing the following:

Relegate 3 Premier league sides to get back to 12. 3 down 1 up.

Have teams fighting it out for 1 promotion spot in a 14 team championship.

Relegate 7 teams from the same 14 team championship.

Have teams vying for 1 promotion spot from the 14 team league 1.

Relegate 10 teams from the 14 team league 1.

So in a best case scenario (not even including possible playoffs which could lead to more promotion and relegation) that would mean in 2021/22, you'll have a situation where 2 teams across Scottish football (not including HL/LL) will be promoted and at least 20 out of 42 teams across the board are going to be relegated.

All to save Hearts. Absolutely ****ing ludicrous. This old ****** should be booted into the nearest body of water immediately. “

Brilliant ! Why hasn't a tabloid ran with the headline "Budge wants to relegate 20 teams in two years to save Hearts" :greengrin:greengrin

[NC1875]

So what actually happens now ? The SPFL really are a laughing stock. Just tell her it’s done, they’re relegated and to shut her trap for once.

She’s doing my head in!

[bigwheel]

Really can't get my head round why Cormack from Aberdeen thinks a temporary reconstruction works. I can't see any upside for the Sheep!!

It can only be to keep Hearts in the league....there’s almost no other reason to support it...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[calumhibee1]

So what actually happens now ? The SPFL really are a laughing stock. Just tell her it’s done, they’re relegated and to shut her trap for once.

She’s doing my head in!

Because she is only looking for feedback she’ll probably get the chance to amend it and we’ll go through this all again in a couple of weeks. It’ll have to be a radically different plan, which will probably mean it’s even more stupid, rinse and repeat until she gets her own way/gives up.

[Peevemor]

Because she is only looking for feedback she’ll probably get the chance to amend it and we’ll go through this all again in a couple of weeks. It’ll have to be a radically different plan, which will probably mean it’s even more stupid, rinse and repeat until she gets her own way/gives up.

12-12-10-10 has the biggest chance of success - she's never going to table that though.

[Juice-Terry]

Didn't all League 1 and League 2 clubs state a while back that they would definitely not support any temporary reconstruction, or am I misremembering?

[brog]

It can only be to keep Hearts in the league....there’s almost no other reason to support it...


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

I agree but why? I cant see any upside for Dons. Any difference in support for Hearts/Dundee Utd would be marginal.

[Lee Marvin]

Because she is only looking for feedback she’ll probably get the chance to amend it and we’ll go through this all again in a couple of weeks. It’ll have to be a radically different plan, which will probably mean it’s even more stupid, rinse and repeat until she gets her own way/gives up.

That's not going to happen. This was her one roll of the dice and she failed miserably, embarrassing herself further in the process.

They are down. It's almost certain now.

Enjoy the Championship ya shamless, lying, self-entitled old boot :na na:

[CapitalGreen]

Saw this on Pie & Bovril from a St Mirren fan:

“For her plan to go through, in the 21/22 season you would be doing the following:

Relegate 3 Premier league sides to get back to 12. 3 down 1 up.

Have teams fighting it out for 1 promotion spot in a 14 team championship.

Relegate 7 teams from the same 14 team championship.

Have teams vying for 1 promotion spot from the 14 team league 1.

Relegate 10 teams from the 14 team league 1.

So in a best case scenario (not even including possible playoffs which could lead to more promotion and relegation) that would mean in 2021/22, you'll have a situation where 2 teams across Scottish football (not including HL/LL) will be promoted and at least 20 out of 42 teams across the board are going to be relegated.

All to save Hearts. Absolutely ****ing ludicrous. This old ****** should be booted into the nearest body of water immediately. “

She has suggested having a vote midway through the season to decide if the go back to 12-10-10-10, but there is no way that vote would pass with so many teams in risk of relegation. If this goes through it’s going to be permanent even if it’s promoted as only being temporary.

[Since452]

What happens if Budge/Levein's (let's be honest) latest proposal is shot down in flames? Will they submit yet another proposal? Tiresome

[The Spaceman]

Tick tock Jambos. Tick tock.

[CapitalGreen]

12-12-10-10 has the biggest chance of success - she's never going to table that though.

The Championship clubs should get together and raise that as an option. It would benefit Partick, Falkirk, Cove, Edinburgh City, Brora and Kelty. No reason for the Premiership clubs to vote against either.

[calumhibee1]

The Championship clubs should get together and raise that as an option. It would benefit Partick, Falkirk, Cove, Edinburgh City, Brora and Kelty. No reason for the Premiership clubs to vote against either.

Now that would be funny.

[Peevemor]

Now that would be funny.

Hearts would probably vote for it as the championship with a 6/6 split would be better for them.

[SouthMoroccoStu]

What happens if Budge/Levein's (let's be honest) latest proposal is shot down in flames? Will they submit yet another proposal? Tiresome

Submit the same proposal for a 3rd time

Go in the huff and threaten to sue everyone

[MacGruber]

Nobody should suffer because of the pandemic and there should be no relegation. Apart from Stranraer, they are a diddy size team.

[bigwheel]

I agree but why? I cant see any upside for Dons. Any difference in support for Hearts/Dundee Utd would be marginal.

Think he wants both..purely looking from a business perspective it seems ..get the biggest clubs back in the league

[calumhibee1]

Nobody should suffer because of the pandemic and there should be no relegation. Apart from Stranraer, they are a diddy size team.

And Clyde, Peterhead, Forfar and Cove. Peasants.

[Mikey]

The Championship clubs should get together and raise that as an option. It would benefit Partick, Falkirk, Cove, Edinburgh City, Brora and Kelty. No reason for the Premiership clubs to vote against either.

Yep, reconstruction is on the table and it's not just Hearts who are running it. There's nothing to stop another club from putting together a proposal of their own.

[calumhibee1]

Looking for a genuine answer to this - so hibs.net may not be the place to ask :greengrin

But what is it about Budgies proposal that is going to save so many Scottish teams whilst the current set up would see them die? What part of it offers such a huge benefit to teams other than Hearts and Inverness?

Budge and the Hearts fans are utterly adamant that a no vote will see loads of teams go to the wall. Why will this reconstruction save them?

[MacGruber]

Looking for a genuine answer to this - so hibs.net may not be the place to ask :greengrin

But what is it about Budgies proposal that is going to save so many Scottish teams whilst the current set up would see them die? What part of it offers such a huge benefit to teams other than Hearts and Inverness?

Budge and the Hearts fans are utterly adamant that a no vote will see loads of teams go to the wall. Why will this reconstruction save them?

The Maroon Pound

[ballengeich]

Looking for a genuine answer to this - so hibs.net may not be the place to ask :greengrin

But what is it about Budgies proposal that is going to save so many Scottish teams whilst the current set up would see them die? What part of it offers such a huge benefit to teams other than Hearts and Inverness?

Budge and the Hearts fans are utterly adamant that a no vote will see loads of teams go to the wall. Why will this reconstruction save them?

It won't, but it makes Hearts finances a lot better. A revised structure won't do anything to advance the resumption of paying spectators getting into grounds.

I've put a similar post to yours on another thread.

[Bostonhibby]

Looking for a genuine answer to this - so hibs.net may not be the place to ask :greengrin

But what is it about Budgies proposal that is going to save so many Scottish teams whilst the current set up would see them die? What part of it offers such a huge benefit to teams other than Hearts and Inverness?

Budge and the Hearts fans are utterly adamant that a no vote will see loads of teams go to the wall. Why will this reconstruction save them?

It's a good question.

I don't have the answer but will suggest that maybe the reason she still hasn't delivered is she's spent all the time selflessly analysing and understanding the finances and future finances of every other club in the country so as to save them all.



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[Ozyhibby]

I would hope enough clubs come out today and say this is a non starter and allow us all to move on.
It’s a ridiculously bad proposal which is presented terribly.
There is no give from Hearts? What do they sacrifice for the clubs to want to do this for them? Absolutely nothing.


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[PatHead]

Yep, reconstruction is on the table and it's not just Hearts who are running it. There's nothing to stop another club from putting together a proposal of their own.

Wish Hibs would put a proposal including a 12 team Premiership forward.

[Craig_in_Prague]

Looking for a genuine answer to this - so hibs.net may not be the place to ask :greengrin

But what is it about Budgies proposal that is going to save so many Scottish teams whilst the current set up would see them die? What part of it offers such a huge benefit to teams other than Hearts and Inverness?

Budge and the Hearts fans are utterly adamant that a no vote will see loads of teams go to the wall. Why will this reconstruction save them?

Coz hearts will go to court and death will be upon us (all).

[Heckys Wheel]

Looking for a genuine answer to this - so hibs.net may not be the place to ask :greengrin

But what is it about Budgies proposal that is going to save so many Scottish teams whilst the current set up would see them die? What part of it offers such a huge benefit to teams other than Hearts and Inverness?

Budge and the Hearts fans are utterly adamant that a no vote will see loads of teams go to the wall. Why will this reconstruction save them?

As I read it, it’s not about saving other clubs, it’s about “saving Scottish Football”.

She’s saying if some teams go to the wall, it’s better to have bigger leagues so they can play out with a decent number of teams. Lot of nonsense.

[bingo70]

I would hope enough clubs come out today and say this is a non starter and allow us all to move on.
It’s a ridiculously bad proposal which is presented terribly.
There is no give from Hearts? What do they sacrifice for the clubs to want to do this for them? Absolutely nothing.


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I can’t remember the exact word used but can the SPFL board not label the idea too ***** to even be considered today?

Think they did that with one of Rangers great brainwaves.

[Greenworld]

Looking for a genuine answer to this - so hibs.net may not be the place to ask :greengrin

But what is it about Budgies proposal that is going to save so many Scottish teams whilst the current set up would see them die? What part of it offers such a huge benefit to teams other than Hearts and Inverness?

Budge and the Hearts fans are utterly adamant that a no vote will see loads of teams go to the wall. Why will this reconstruction save them?The Genuine answer is nothing can be offered that would save / help all clubs other than money ! Lots of money is the only genuine way of letting teams play or go into deep freeze.

This temporary offer is fraught with Danger for to many clubs all things considered 4 clubs could go down in one season .
Who the Hell is going to vote for that .
This for me anyway has been Hearts buying some time ,playing some legal game .
I fully expect this to go no further in a zoom call with premier clubs indicating its not going to pass.
Then let's see what legal challenge hearts have ?

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[Waxy]

When the judge chucks it out they still wont be satisfied.
The great jamogod will strike everyone down in our tinpots.

[Largshibby]

Looking for a genuine answer to this - so hibs.net may not be the place to ask :greengrin

But what is it about Budgies proposal that is going to save so many Scottish teams whilst the current set up would see them die? What part of it offers such a huge benefit to teams other than Hearts and Inverness?

Budge and the Hearts fans are utterly adamant that a no vote will see loads of teams go to the wall. Why will this reconstruction save them?
Why is she adamant that clubs will go to the wall? She makes a big deal out of their supporters supporting the club financially so why wouldn’t others do the same? Of course other clubs won’t have to raise so much because they’ve been well run and lived within their means.

[brog]

Looking for a genuine answer to this - so hibs.net may not be the place to ask :greengrin

But what is it about Budgies proposal that is going to save so many Scottish teams whilst the current set up would see them die? What part of it offers such a huge benefit to teams other than Hearts and Inverness?

Budge and the Hearts fans are utterly adamant that a no vote will see loads of teams go to the wall. Why will this reconstruction save them?

Pretty much what I asked. There's nothing in her inarticulate, rambling statement to convincingly explain why a 3 division structure would work better than 4 divisions in these difficult times. Cummings' blind driving explanation makes more sense than her claim that this is for the good of Scottish football.

[Onion]

The Genuine answer is nothing can be offered that would save / help all clubs other than money ! Lots of money is the only genuine way of letting teams play or go into deep freeze.

This temporary offer is fraught with Danger for to many clubs all things considered 4 clubs could go down in one season .
Who the Hell is going to vote for that .
This for me anyway has been Hearts buying some time ,playing some legal game .
I fully expect this to go no further in a zoom call with premier clubs indicating its not going to pass.
Then let's see what legal challenge hearts have ?

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Agreed. Hearts know any chance of being reinstated in Prem relies on them dragging this out for as long as they possibly can. In background, they'll be working up their legal case while praying for other clubs to go bust. Budge knows full well, there is no reformatting of the leagues that can possibly satisfy everyone. All of what we're seeing now is posturing and PR by Budge to save her sorry arse.

Oh, and if by some miracle Hearts do get saved through reconstruction, Hibs should immediately ask for our 6th place finish to be reinstated and the extra prize money taken back from St Johnstone. Why should Hibs be the only club in the Premier financially penalised. In fact, Hibs reinstatement to 6th should form part of any reconstruction proposal. That would gibe St Johnstone something to think about when they come to vote.

[DoocootHibby]

Today Hearts are proposing 14-14-14 league structure... Was this what they were planning to announce last Friday or was the delay that they have they finally discovered that 15-15-15 does not wash!

[GreenCastle]

What part of trying to boast about finances at Hearts was a good idea to put into a proposal ?!?

“Everyone knows that the financial support we receive from our fans is exceptional. For over 7 years fans have contributed almost £1.5m per annum to support the Club. Since football was cancelled our supporters’ organisation, Foundation of Hearts, has amazingly had over 800 additional/increased pledges. Our benefactors too, continue to stand behind the Club. They have committed to continue to support us, not just throughout this current crisis, but for the next 5 years. “

Then this..

“We also have access to highly flexible training facilities” - Oriam and Heriot Watt are shut so you currently don’t. Hibs can open up East Mains when they want.

The best line is still this..

“In short, the Premiership needs Hearts more than the Championship does.”

[mal]

A competent and professionally-written proposal ought to have included case studies from any foreign leagues where a similar set up operates, what the impacts on crowds have been, whether fans are happy with it. If any leagues have moved from a similar format to a smaller league/more divisions format how was that managed and what was the impact. They've had months to do the research and analysis. The lazy, amateurish garbage they'e come up with is insulting to the rest of Scottish football and they ought to be embarrassed by it.

[007]

Looking for a genuine answer to this - so hibs.net may not be the place to ask :greengrin

But what is it about Budgies proposal that is going to save so many Scottish teams whilst the current set up would see them die? What part of it offers such a huge benefit to teams other than Hearts and Inverness?

Budge and the Hearts fans are utterly adamant that a no vote will see loads of teams go to the wall. Why will this reconstruction save them?

She is trying to suggest 2 or 3 teams might go bust during the season and that a larger league would be able to cope/adapt better than a smaller league. That's why she goes on and on about how big a crisis we are in.

However, the correct answer, like many of us have said, is not to reconstruct now because we don't yet know an approximate date when football will restart, how long it is likely to be behind closed doors for, how long it will be before fans can return and how many clubs can play or would rather be mothballed for the season. Once we have a better idea of what we're working with, it can then be worked out how best to go forward.

The Premiership should be kept as is, for all the reasons many of us have said for weeks (plus, the idea that a team can play in the bottom 'half' of the league after the split but can still get into Europe is unbelievably ridiculous). The non Premiership teams that are able to play can be in either 1 or 2 leagues depending on the numbers. The chairpersons will have a good idea whether or not they are better being mothballed before the season kicks off so I doubt there will be clubs falling over left, right and centre during the season as she'd have us believe.

Hearts are desperate to try and push through reconstruction just now, knowing full well there's every chance there will need to be another reconstruction once more is known, but before this happens they want to secure a place in the Premiership.

[CapitalGreen]

calumhibee1 mentioned the post on pie and bovril last night but it is the biggest issue with this reconstruction proposal. In order to save Hearts in 2020, Budge is proposing a temporary model which would see up to 50% of Scottish Clubs relegated in 2 years.

If 2 clubs are promoted to the Premiership at the end of 21/22, 4 clubs will need to be relegated to go back to a 12 team league.

If 2 clubs were promoted to the Championship, 8 teams would need to be relegated to go back to a 10 team league.

That leaves League one with 20 teams which would be split in 2 to recreate League 2, effectively relegating 10 teams.

Add in possible relegation out of the SPFL to highland or lowland league and you have a possible 21 teams suffering relegation.

Ann Budge has proposed a mid-season vote to go back to the status quo but there is no chance that vote will ever pass with so much threat of relegation. So if 14-14-14 comes in it will be permanent.

[greenginger]

Why is she adamant that clubs will go to the wall? She makes a big deal out of their supporters supporting the club financially so why wouldn’t others do the same? Of course other clubs won’t have to raise so much because they’ve been well run and lived within their means.

In the Jambo mindset the illegal expulsion of the Famous from the top division will sicken supporters and sponsors of all clubs throughout the land and they will desert football in their droves.

Never mind the wrath of the gods brining flood and pestilence to the land.

Arrogance , entitlement, and self importance are the drivers at Tynecastle

[Bostonhibby]

In the Jambo mindset the illegal expulsion of the Famous from the top division will sicken supporters and sponsors of all clubs throughout the land and they will desert football in their droves.

Never mind the wrath of the gods brining flood and pestilence to the land.

Arrogance , entitlement, and self importance are the drivers at TynecastleSurely Hearts know that should any club have to put themselves into administration there's always the option of bouncing back debt free when they've shafted their creditors?

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[GreenCastle]

A competent and professionally-written proposal ought to have included case studies from any foreign leagues where a similar set up operates, what the impacts on crowds have been, whether fans are happy with it. If any leagues have moved from a similar format to a smaller league/more divisions format how was that managed and what was the impact. They've had months to do the research and analysis. The lazy, amateurish garbage they'e come up with is insulting to the rest of Scottish football and they ought to be embarrassed by it.

Yup - I’ve seen better proposals written by bowling club committees.

Shambles FC can’t seem to get much right - which makes it hilarious for us and other clubs as they squirm around to be relevant.

[Mikey]

Wish Hibs would put a proposal including a 12 team Premiership forward.

If a club like Partick Thistle put forward a proposal that leaves the premiership as is and comes up with a better solution for the lower leagues it would probably pass.

[Col2]

As I read it, it’s not about saving other clubs, it’s about “saving Scottish Football”.

She’s saying if some teams go to the wall, it’s better to have bigger leagues so they can play out with a decent number of teams. Lot of nonsense.

Yes that’s what I interpreted but the championship will lose 2 teams, down to 8 and then need 6 more added. I don’t see how that doesn’t put more chance of the league not finishing given 6 lower league team will be promoted while Hearts and ICT make it weaker. It’s doesn’t make sense. And even if a bigger league means some teams can still play, the season is screwed if only a few can play.

[bingo70]

A competent and professionally-written proposal ought to have included case studies from any foreign leagues where a similar set up operates, what the impacts on crowds have been, whether fans are happy with it. If any leagues have moved from a similar format to a smaller league/more divisions format how was that managed and what was the impact. They've had months to do the research and analysis. The lazy, amateurish garbage they'e come up with is insulting to the rest of Scottish football and they ought to be embarrassed by it.

Good post.

The time it’s taken them to come up with this I was expecting something a bit more groundbreaking than a waffling rant you’d expect to see on Kickback. It’s like she’s scribbled down an idea when she realised her homework was overdue.

[GreenCastle]

calumhibee1 mentioned the post on pie and bovril last night but it is the biggest issue with this reconstruction proposal. In order to save Hearts in 2020, Budge is proposing a temporary model which would see up to 50% of Scottish Clubs relegated in 2 years.

If 2 clubs are promoted to the Premiership at the end of 21/22, 4 clubs will need to be relegated to go back to a 12 team league.

If 2 clubs were promoted to the Championship, 8 teams would need to be relegated to go back to a 10 team league.

That leaves League one with 20 teams which would be split in 2 to recreate League 2, effectively relegating 10 teams.

Add in possible relegation out of the SPFL to highland or lowland league and you have a possible 21 teams suffering relegation.

Ann Budge has proposed a mid-season vote to go back to the status quo but there is no chance that vote will ever pass with so much threat of relegation. So if 14-14-14 comes in it will be permanent.

Like most things Hearts seem to do it’s all about short term planning and quick fixes.

We have seen it with the way they built the stand - no seats, police box blocking views, media facilities inadequate and even the directors seating.

The same applies to their football department and recruitment - quick fixes to try save their season and spending money to try get themselves out a hole.

[brog]

A competent and professionally-written proposal ought to have included case studies from any foreign leagues where a similar set up operates, what the impacts on crowds have been, whether fans are happy with it. If any leagues have moved from a similar format to a smaller league/more divisions format how was that managed and what was the impact. They've had months to do the research and analysis. The lazy, amateurish garbage they'e come up with is insulting to the rest of Scottish football and they ought to be embarrassed by it.

Absolutely spot on. At my work we always talked about pinpoint examples to demonstrate & support any comments. She provides nothing. The sheer arrogance that runs throughout is also astonishing. She just automatically assumes that Hearts & ICT would be in an enlarged top division. No debate, no qualification of her comment.

[jakedance]

Looking for a genuine answer to this - so hibs.net may not be the place to ask :greengrin

But what is it about Budgies proposal that is going to save so many Scottish teams whilst the current set up would see them die? What part of it offers such a huge benefit to teams other than Hearts and Inverness?

Budge and the Hearts fans are utterly adamant that a no vote will see loads of teams go to the wall. Why will this reconstruction save them?

“Vote for our selfless proposal to save Scottish football or we’ll unleash fire and fury upon you all and you’ll be bankrupted by our court case that we’re definitely going to win.”

[CB_NO3]

We will all go into administration when Hearts rinse the SPFL through the courts. Some experts on KB are predicting at least £20M 😂