SNP are lying b******s as well !

[CropleyWasGod]

SNPs famous accounts out and not good. £800,000 deficit, Murrell owed 60k, caravan bought for 110k now worth 60k whoever sanctioned that needs bombed.

Not fatal by any means but a huge decline in membership numbers and donations in the last 18 months. The answer why needs found and remedied, especially as a big election year next year that will need funding

https://archive.ph/wazMd

The Indy fighting fund is a big omission though

The SNP has removed any mention of the referendum appeal at the centre of a long-running police investigation from its annual accounts.
In the financial review of the 2021 accounts, then party treasurer Colin Beattie said £740,822 had been raised in donations for Indyref2 from 2017 to by end of 2021.
He said that £235,335 had been spent and the balance of £505,487 remained “earmarked” for independence related campaigning.
However the party’s new accounts, for the year to 31 December 2022, make no reference to the appeal.
The £500,000 “earmarked” for Indyref2 is not identified and the decline in the party’s finances suggest that, even if the money was found in future, it is not instantly available.

The SNP’s accumulated reserves fell from £584,649 at the end of 2021 to minus £219,629 at the end of 2022, the first time they have fallen into the red since 2017.
Cash at the bank and in hand fell from £144,975 to £46,039.
The accounts show the party recorded its first back-to-back deficits since 2013 and 204, going £732,072 into the red in 2021 and £804,278 into the red in 2022.

https://archive.ph/LHMB5

It's been depreciated. That's standard practice.

[Ozyhibby]

It's been depreciated. That's standard practice.

Campervan usually hold their value pretty well don’t they? Especially unused ones. I imagine that gets sold the minute it’s returned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

Campervan usually hold their value pretty well don’t they? Especially unused ones. I imagine that gets sold the minute it’s returned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

25% on vehicles is a fairly standard depreciation charge.

For clarification, it didn't cost the party £107k, or whatever it was. They claimed the VAT on it, so the net cost was £80k odd.

[Stairway 2 7]

Campervan usually hold their value pretty well don’t they? Especially unused ones. I imagine that gets sold the minute it’s returned.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Usually loses 20% as soon as driven off the lot, will have no mileage but someone has lost them 10s of thousands on something that could have been rented if needed

[Ozyhibby]

Usually loses 20% as soon as driven off the lot, will have no mileage but someone has lost them 10s of thousands on something that could have been rented if needed

Absolutely it is a terrible decision to buy it. Murrell deserves to lose his job over that alone.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Usually loses 20% as soon as driven off the lot, will have no mileage but someone has lost them 10s of thousands on something that could have been rented if needed

https://www.autotraderinsight-blog.co.uk/auto-trader-insight-blog/used-car-prices-analysis

[greenginger]

25% on vehicles is a fairly standard depreciation charge.

For clarification, it didn't cost the party £107k, or whatever it was. They claimed the VAT on it, so the net cost was £80k odd.

I thought political parties were exempt from VAT.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.autotraderinsight-blog.co.uk/auto-trader-insight-blog/used-car-prices-analysis

You've just posted a link without comment so not sure what you’re saying. Prices of used cars are going up but sales of new are going down, many are downsizing. Obviously a used car isn't dearer than its new counterpart in the real world, it tells us more about what's selling

Their Niesmann And Bischoff will have lost 20k in its almost 3 years of life. People obviously aren't going to pay the same as it was bought as there is a newer model and its simply not new

[CropleyWasGod]

I thought political parties were exempt from VAT.

They can register for VAT to reclaim some of their input VAT. According to their accounts, the SNP have partially-exempt status.

The media has it that the van cost £107k, the amount of Murrell's loan. The accounts have the cost at £80,632, which approximates to the net-of-VAT amount.

However, whether they have actually claimed that VAT is not clear. Partial-exemption rules are complicated, and the tortuous nature of political parties' accounts doesn't help. It may be that the VAT has been shown as "irrecoverable VAT" in their Income statement.

Bottom line..... the amount in the accounts is net of VAT. When they sell it, they will have to charge VAT.

[grunt]

Obviously a used car isn't dearer than its new counterpart in the real world ...


One in five ‘nearly new’ cars priced above brand new equivalents


Prices for three-five-year-old cars continue to rocket

:wink:

[greenginger]

They can register for VAT to reclaim some of their input VAT. According to their accounts, the SNP have partially-exempt status.

The media has it that the van cost £107k, the amount of Murrell's loan. The accounts have the cost at £80,632, which approximates to the net-of-VAT amount.

However, whether they have actually claimed that VAT is not clear. Partial-exemption rules are complicated, and the tortuous nature of political parties' accounts doesn't help. It may be that the VAT has been shown as "irrecoverable VAT" in their Income statement.

Bottom line..... the amount in the accounts is net of VAT. When they sell it, they will have to charge VAT.


So we’ll leave it as a known unknown.

[CropleyWasGod]

So we’ll leave it as a known unknown.

That's too confident for me :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

:wink:

Once again your just linking and not saying anything. It's about supply and demand due to semiconductor shortages and unavailablity of new cars. The used is dearer because availability

Niesmann And Bischoffs around 3 years old are losing about 20k, top of the range are dropping from 250k to 180k. They don't lose much value after the first year, certainly not compared to cars . It doesn't really matter about what a Hyundai Tucson drops as the SNP never bought one. There's Niesmanns on autotrader that are 20k under the new van price, you should buy one and sell at a 20k profit

[Stairway 2 7]

SNP continues to drop in polling, no bottoming out. The good thing is it isn't translating to independence polling, still behind but steady. Labour might overtake SNP but I think as the incumbent SNP will gain momentum going into the election and regain a decent lead

https://archive.ph/Y43q0

[Stairway 2 7]

More strikes coming up this time teachers. Hopefully a deal can be made

https://twitter.com/unison_glasgow/status/1695232766521004534

@unison_glasgow
School staff voted to strike over pay at 24 councils across Scotland in ballot results announced today (Friday).

It is the largest ever vote for strike action by school staff in Scotland and will mean mass closures across the country, the union says

[Moulin Yarns]

More strikes coming up this time teachers. Hopefully a deal can be made

https://twitter.com/unison_glasgow/status/1695232766521004534

@unison_glasgow
School staff voted to strike over pay at 24 councils across Scotland in ballot results announced today (Friday).

It is the largest ever vote for strike action by school staff in Scotland and will mean mass closures across the country, the union says

Do you read things before you post??

[Stairway 2 7]

Do you read things before you post??

Hope you don't start conversations like that in the boozer, unless you're handier than Usyk. I thought it was teachers but the end product is the same, bairns schools will be closed

[grunt]

I thought it was teachers but the end product is the same, bairns schools will be closed
What made you think it was about teachers? Teachers aren't mentioned.

[Stairway 2 7]

What made you think it was about teachers? Teachers aren't mentioned.

Because it said schools would close and they are staff at school which the tweet says are striking, it's hardly the largest leap. But have just read and realised I'm wrong it's other staff. Makes no difference as both as important as each other and schools don't open without them

[Hibrandenburg]

More strikes coming up this time teachers. Hopefully a deal can be made

https://twitter.com/unison_glasgow/status/1695232766521004534

@unison_glasgow
School staff voted to strike over pay at 24 councils across Scotland in ballot results announced today (Friday).

It is the largest ever vote for strike action by school staff in Scotland and will mean mass closures across the country, the union says

:confused:

[Stairway 2 7]

:confused:

Did you just stop at that post or read the rest of the thread. Non teaching school staff are striking due to pay. Schools will be closed in most of Scotland

[Moulin Yarns]

Because it said schools would close and they are staff at school which the tweet says are striking, it's hardly the largest leap. But have just read and realised I'm wrong it's other staff. Makes no difference as both as important as each other and schools don't open without them

Except teachers accepted the pay offer months ago.


What I don't understand is council workers have pay negotiated at national level and it's only school ancillary staff not all council staff, and not all councils.

[Stairway 2 7]

Except teachers accepted the pay offer months ago.

Schools need more than them to open. Both sides are just as important, support staff are often an afterthought. I don't think parents will be bothered who it is that's striking when their kids can go on though

[grunt]

Both sides are just as important, support staff are often an afterthought. :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Schools need more than them to open. Both sides are just as important, support staff are often an afterthought. I don't think parents will be bothered who it is that's striking when their kids can go on though

When will you accept you didn't read the link you posted and admit that it's not teachers who are striking, like you claim?

[Stairway 2 7]

When will you accept you didn't read the link you posted and admit that it's not teachers who are striking, like you claim?

What you on about you mado literally in the first reply and every other reply I said I made a mistake and thought it was teachers, but it's support staff

[Hibrandenburg]

Did you just stop at that post or read the rest of the thread. Non teaching school staff are striking due to pay. Schools will be closed in most of Scotland

I opened you're link and saw it wasn't what you claimed it was. The fact other posters did the same became apparent afterwards. Who reads a whole thread before commenting on individual posts?

[Stairway 2 7]

I opened you're link and saw it wasn't what you claimed it was. The fact other posters did the same became apparent afterwards. Who reads a whole thread before commenting on individual posts?

I'd think the vast majority of people. If someone asks a question then someone answers the next post and the conversation moves on, I've never seen someone answer the question hours later. Maybe just me

I've said I was wrong a number of times even if people want to focus on that to deflect it doesn't change anything, schools will still close unless a deal can be made. I'll repeat what I said in initial post I hope a deal can be made. The doctors deal shows people aren't looking for a huge amount so I'm confident they will get there

[Hibrandenburg]

I just maybe read it hours after you posted it. Bit rich you lecturing me about how to read posts when you don't even read the links you post yourself.

[Stairway 2 7]

I just maybe read it hours after you posted it. Bit rich you lecturing me about how to read posts when you don't even read the links you post yourself.

No lecturing obviously zero interest in your thread reading style and I'm sure that will go both ways. I did read just misinterpreted it the main point I got was my bairn will be off school yet again. It doesn't really matter to me and other parents who's striking, the end result is the same taking time off work. You any opinion on the subject

[Hibrandenburg]

No lecturing obviously zero interest in your thread reading style and I'm sure that will go both ways. I did read just misinterpreted it the main point I got was my bairn will be off school yet again. It doesn't really matter to me and other parents who's striking, the end result is the same taking time off work. You any opinion on the subject

Same opinion I have on most Scottish political debate. Scotland would be far better off having 100% control of its decision making and finance arrangements rather than having its hands tied behind its back.

[Stairway 2 7]

Same opinion I have on most Scottish political debate. Scotland would be far better off having 100% control of its decision making and finance arrangements rather than having its hands tied behind its back.

That's a given but there is scope in there. Scot govs budget has matched inflation over 12 years but public sector wages have been cut by 30%, doctors rising with inflation this year won't rectify that. Its been a deliberate choice to drop public sector wages to the point they are striking. I'm sure they will get a deal and it'll be better than England as per but that's a low bar imo

[Hibrandenburg]

That's a given but there is scope in there. Scot govs budget has matched inflation over 12 years but public sector wages have been cut by 30%, doctors rising with inflation this year won't rectify that. Its been a deliberate choice to drop public sector wages to the point they are striking. I'm sure they will get a deal and it'll be better than England as per but that's a low bar imo

It's the only bar we have given that our spending is directly related to what England spends.

[Stairway 2 7]

Defacto referendums are a nonsense but it's brilliant to see independence put front and centre for a change. Independence should be almost every thought and conversation for the snp

https://archive.ph/maAMH

SENIOR SNP politicians have set out an alternative path to independence for debate at the party’s conference which includes withdrawing MPs from Westminster if a mandate is won but the UK Government refuses to take part in negotiations.

[Stairway 2 7]

Pretty scathing from independence campaigner Robert mcalpine. Surprised no discussion about Murray Foote getting CEO. Some independence supporters furious one of the main players in the Vow gets SNP gig also 5 months after he quit for giving misleading membership numbers

http://robinmcalpine.org/can-you-see-how-bad-it-is-yet/

Can you see how bad it is yet?
by Robin McAlpine

It may have taken a long time for the cracks to appear in the SNP, but they've been working their way through the party for years. And they're not done - the SNP must reform or accept a long, slow decline before it can recover

[grunt]

Pretty scathing from independence campaigner Robert mcalpine. Makes you wonder who he thinks he's helping. There are some real loonies in the Indy movement, it has to be said.

[Stairway 2 7]

Makes you wonder who he thinks he's helping. There are some real loonies in the Indy movement, it has to be said.

He's not the type to fall into line behind dear leader. Should SNP be defended even if you think they are doing something wrong or you think they are on a poor path. I personally don't think that is helpful for independence.

[Ozyhibby]

Pretty scathing from independence campaigner Robert mcalpine. Surprised no discussion about Murray Foote getting CEO. Some independence supporters furious one of the main players in the Vow gets SNP gig also 5 months after he quit for giving misleading membership numbers

http://robinmcalpine.org/can-you-see-how-bad-it-is-yet/

Can you see how bad it is yet?
by Robin McAlpine

It may have taken a long time for the cracks to appear in the SNP, but they've been working their way through the party for years. And they're not done - the SNP must reform or accept a long, slow decline before it can recover

There is no shortage of advice out there from people who can’t build the sort of support the SNP manages to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

There is no shortage of advice out there from people who can’t build the sort of support the SNP manages to do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I don't think commentators should start their own party rather than criticise. The main parties in the uk spend millions each a year and have all been going for decades. Small new parties have next to no chance and would need massive investment to run and win. Its a closed shop unfortunately so what we've got has to work

There has been a number of left wing commentators criticising Starmer correctly recently. No one imo should say they are helping the tories criticising Starmer. Even more unfair would be telling them we'll you've had plenty time to start your own party

[grunt]

I don't think commentators should start their own party rather than criticise. They DID start their own party.

[Kato]

There is no shortage of advice out there from people who can’t build the sort of support the SNP manages to do.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWe are in a "least worse" era of the political parties, probably not the first one either but this one is is long. Which leader this century hasn't turned snide on the lower classes?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

They DID start their own party.

Yep and zero seats like every other new party. Is the newest party to win a seat at Holyrood the Scottish socialist party? Even without fptp we've only msps from 5 established parties.

[Stairway 2 7]

We are in a "least worse" era of the political parties, probably not the first one either but this one is is long. Which leader this century hasn't turned snide on the lower classes?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Agreed. It's brutal good left wingers in England realistically have no choice but Labour to vote out the tories

[Stairway 2 7]

I said before that scot govs study saying minimum pricing reduced deaths was junk. They used 1 year and although deaths rose they said they rose less than England so that shows minimum pricing saved lives. For some reason they didn't compare against Northern Ireland who doesn't have minimum pricing and deaths dropped!

Anyway scot gov have redacted their statements on the subject. They have changed that it saves to may have. They have removed a paragraph where it said 40 studies agreed, when 39 studies showed no clear evidence or were looking at different subjects. I still think it'll go to the statistics authority

https://archive.ph/kRbpl

Today it's been announced deaths have risen again to the highest level in 14 years
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/statistics/statistics-by-theme/vital-events/deaths/alcohol-deaths

Minimum pricing might work and be good, but it's good won't show up for decades. People dying now will have have had a problem for years and are going to buy enough drink regardless of price. One study showed problem drinkers are spending less on food to pay for increased drink costs.

It can't but it would be good if minimum pricing profits went on support to problem drinkers rather than supermarkets

[Ozyhibby]

I said before that scot govs study saying minimum pricing reduced deaths was junk. They used 1 year and although deaths rose they said they rose less than England so that shows minimum pricing saved lives. For some reason they didn't compare against Northern Ireland who doesn't have minimum pricing and deaths dropped!

Anyway scot gov have redacted their statements on the subject. They have changed that it saves to may have. They have removed a paragraph where it said 40 studies agreed, when 39 studies showed no clear evidence or were looking at different subjects. I still think it'll go to the statistics authority

https://archive.ph/kRbpl

Today it's been announced deaths have risen again to the highest level in 14 years
https://www.nrscotland.gov.uk/statistics-and-data/statistics/statistics-by-theme/vital-events/deaths/alcohol-deaths

Minimum pricing might work and be good, but it's good won't show up for decades. People dying now will have have had a problem for years and are going to buy enough drink regardless of price. One study showed problem drinkers are spending less on food to pay for increased drink costs.

It can't but it would be good if minimum pricing profits went on support to problem drinkers rather than supermarkets

Price is too low now to make much difference anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Price is too low now to make much difference anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Our a lot dearer than the rest of the uk due to it but it won't effect deaths now. Focusing on it and not things that will actually stop deaths is making us sleepwalk into these figures. Do they seriously think probablem drinkers will stop drinking because its dearer, "just say no" thinking

[grunt]

Our a lot dearer than the rest of the uk due to it but it won't effect deaths now. Focusing on it and not things that will actually stop deaths is making us sleepwalk into these figures. Do they seriously think probablem drinkers will stop drinking because its dearer, "just say no" thinking
There was a guy at my work who never contributed anything in team meetings. He'd sit there and say nothing. Then, as we were leaving and going out the door you'd hear him mutter, "it'll never work".

[Stairway 2 7]

There was a guy at my work who never contributed anything in team meetings. He'd sit there and say nothing. Then, as we were leaving and going out the door you'd hear him mutter, "it'll never work".

I doubt he was being paid personally to tackle the drinking deaths in Scotland. Most I've read say the only way to tackle it is support for the most vulnerable. Drug support funding was cut massively in the last 10 years I don't think it's a surprise the deaths matched. Thankfully funding has re ramped up recently on the drug side, not so on alchahol.

I had a boy in my work that just said sarcastic comments without actual input and opinion on the matter

[Stairway 2 7]

Bit of a long read from favor an addiction charity. Fwiw I'm for mup at current levels although I'm sure it won't do anything for our problem of increased deaths.

https://www.facesandvoicesofrecoveryuk.org/unmasking-the-mirage-evaluating-scotlands-minimum-pricing-policy-for-alcohol/

Scotland embarked on the implementation of minimum pricing for alcohol in 2018 with high hopes. However, the subsequent evaluation conducted by Public Health Scotland revealed that the intended outcomes were not achieved. It is evident that the effectiveness of the grand plan fell short of expectations. Multiple (government funded) agencies have endorsed this initiative, but regrettably, a significant portion of the public and independent observers perceive it as a well-orchestrated public relations campaign. Although the perception of governmental autonomy may be disheartening, it has become increasingly commonplace. The prevailing narrative and its ability to obfuscate seem to take precedence over substantive outcomes.

We could then have anticipated that the introduction of such a policy would result in a reduction in alcohol-related crime. Yet, the evaluation findings challenge this assumption.

The evaluation found no significant changes in alcohol-related crime and disorder, except for that one local authority where things actually got worse. Bravo!

And what about reducing alcohol-related A&E visits? Nope, didn’t happen either. In fact, it seems like there were even more emergency department visits related to alcohol after minimum pricing came into play. Way to go!

Also more research found no impact on alcohol-related ambulance call-outs.

It is crucial to consider the impact of the policy on the heaviest drinkers, the primary target demographic for this initiative. However, it appears that the intended message did not effectively reach this group.There was no clear evidence that they cut down on their alcohol consumption. Instead, some of them even drank more! Impressive strategy, don’t you think?
https://www.publichealthscotland.scot/publications/evaluating-the-impact-of-minimum-unit-pricing-in-scotland-on-people-who-are-drinking-at-harmful-levels/

But wait, there’s more! Researchers found all sorts of unintended consequences. People started spending less on healthy fruits and vegetables and more on crisps and snacks. And guess what? Switching from cider to spirits seemed to result in increased intoxication. Who saw that coming? Eh US at @FAVORUK & most other people from working class backgrounds with common sense)
https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/35898560/

And let’s not overlook the fact that Scotland experienced its highest rate of alcohol-specific deaths in over a decade. But hey, the rest of the UK is not far behind, so at least we are in good company, right?

However, it is worth noting that Public Health Scotland has presented a contrasting perspective by portraying the policy as a success. They contend that minimum pricing positively impacted health outcomes, referencing a study that compares Scottish data to a counterfactual based on trends observed in England. While this approach may seem incongruous, it is important to approach scientific analysis with caution.

Nevertheless, it is prudent to critically evaluate the study’s claims of causation based solely on correlation. Disregarding the random decrease in alcohol-related deaths that occurred in Scotland prior to the policy implementation further raises questions about the study’s findings.

Similarly, the purported decline in hospital admissions lacks statistical significance and relies on estimates derived from hypothetical scenarios. Moreover, the data indicates that alcohol-related hospital admissions did not exhibit a reduction in 2018 or 2019. These observations warrant careful consideration when assessing the efficacy of the minimum pricing approach.

But wait, there’s even more conflicting evidence. Public Health Scotland conveniently ignores a study that found women reduced their alcohol consumption more than men, contrary to their claims. In addition, it is important to acknowledge the presence of conflicting evidence in the discourse. Public Health Scotland, in their assertions, appears to overlook a study that reveals a contrasting trend. This particular study indicates that women demonstrated a greater reduction in alcohol consumption compared to men, contrary to the claims made by Public Health Scotland. Moreover, the study found that heavy drinking men actually increased their alcohol consumption following the implementation of the policy. These unexpected findings challenge preconceived notions and underscore the complexities of the issue at hand.

In the end, it all comes down to one study that claims to support the success of minimum pricing. But let’s not dwell on the fact that it’s an outlier, lacks solid proof of causation, and heavily relies on the assumptions of its authors. Let’s just pretend it’s the golden ticket to success!

So, Scotland, congratulations on your flagship policy that didn’t quite live up to expectations. It’s been a wild ride of selective interpretation and ignoring inconvenient evidence. But hey, at least you can say you gave it a shot, right, the Welsh tried too and it didn’t work there either.

To calculate the percentage rise in alcohol-specific deaths in Scotland from 2018 when MUP was introduced to the latest figures we have up till 2021, we can follow these steps:

Determine the difference between the number of deaths in 2021 and 2018: 1245 deaths in 2021 – 1136 deaths in 2018 = 109 additional deaths
Calculate the percentage increase: (109 additional deaths / 1136 deaths in 2018) * 100
Using these calculations, we find that the percentage increase in alcohol-specific deaths in Scotland from 2018 to 2021 is approximately 9.60%.

In the realm of distorted public health narratives, it seems that a 9.6% increase be 9.6% increase can somehow be portrayed as a 13% decrease. Astonishingly, despite the fact that the number of alcohol-related deaths reached a 15-year high, Public Health Scotland engaged in some questionable “modelling” and magically asserted that the figures would have been 13% higher otherwise. Subsequently, government-funded organisations and their associates began fervently spreading this gospel-like proclamation. As it appears, I am once again considered a heretic and await the inevitable stake-burning.

Scotland’s attempt at implementing minimum pricing for alcohol in 2018 fell short of expectations. Despite Public Health Scotland’s efforts to present it as a success, the evaluation revealed underwhelming results. Alcohol-related crime and disorder showed no significant changes, and in some areas, the situation even worsened. The policy also failed to reduce alcohol-related A&E visits and ambulance call-outs. Most concerning was the highest rate of alcohol-specific deaths in over a decade.

Public Health Scotland’s claims of positive health outcomes were based on a study that compared Scottish data to a questionable counterfactual. The evidence presented was conflicting and often disregarded inconvenient findings. The flagship policy suffered from selective interpretation and the dismissal of contradictory evidence.

However, amidst this disappointment, there is hope for a better future. It is essential for the addiction sector and related agencies to transcend their self-interests and partisan politics. Embracing the forthcoming Right to Recovery Bill can revolutionise funding systems and promote collaboration rather than competition. By setting aside personal egos and embracing the power. If only we could shift our thinking away from either/or scenarios and embrace the power of (“and with”) true progress might be achievable & genuine progress achieved.

Unfortunately, political forces may seek through many agencies to muddy the waters, diverting attention to unrelated debates and narratives. But if we can shift our thinking away from divisive dichotomies and focus on the transformative potential of the Right to Recovery Bill, a brighter future is within reach. Despite scepticism, there remains optimism for a change in mindset and a united effort to support recovery and well-being.

Let us hold onto hope and work towards a transformative shift in addiction policies and practices. Here’s to a future where collaboration, recovery, and progress prevail.


Since this article was published The Times have investigated, and reported that Civil servants have retrospectively altered a press release about a wide-ranging report into the policy in order to limit some of its messages. Read here https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/tories-attack-snp-as-officials-change-claims-on-alcohol-pricing-qlkff0972

[grunt]

Bit of a long read from favor an addiction charity. She's a long term critic of the SNP and Scot Gov. She's a supporter of lying Tory MSP Sandesh Gulhane. She never has anything positive to say about Scotland.

[Stairway 2 7]

She's a long term critic of the SNP and Scot Gov. She's a supporter of lying Tory MSP Sandesh Gulhane. She never has anything positive to say about Scotland.

Do you mean snp scot gov or a long term critic of their drug policies. Do you mean supporter of Gulhane or she supported her getting stopping misinformation in one policy. I've never seen her say anything positive or negative about Scotland as a whole, I've only seen her comment on drug policy something she has fought years for.

She's pro independence and a SNP member or at least was, but that isn't relevant to her opinion on drug policy.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/msm_monitor/status/1696805431241281713?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

https://x.com/msm_monitor/status/1696805434546397469?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Expert on radio this morning defending mup.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/record-number-of-young-scots-in-education-training-or-employment-say-skills-development-scotland

Good news.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-66673971

Was this not supposed to be a Purely scottish problem?

[degenerated]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-66673971

Was this not supposed to be a Purely scottish problem?Our problem was slightly different. Shoddy brickwork on PFI schools projects where wall ties between inner and outer leaf were missed or installed poorly

[Stairway 2 7]

Scot government has offered to mediate between UK gov and BMA. Absolutely love that ha. The difference in offers

@DevanSinha
Gap between UK Gov position and Scot Gov-BMA agreement is 7% for 2022-2024 period. Or from 2010-24 gap is 11% given Scot Gov didn't freeze pay in nominal terms (larger real cut) but accepted prior yrs DDRB recommendations.

+ commitment to >inflation pay rises for next 3 yrs.


I like the reply to his tweet from some tory

@DraperOr
Move to Scotland, then.

@DevanSinha

7m
Unfortunately national training numbers for doctors are geographically locked. It's a captive labour market, not free. I can't move except w/ evidence of exceptional circumstances eg fam illness or childcare commitments. Once I finish training ie consultant will consider

[Ozyhibby]

Decent statement from Yousaf today. Would have liked them to have ditched the madness of rent controls but that will take care of itself in time as rents continue to rise because of it. Two other areas I would have liked to have heard more would be on reforming planning in order to boast housing. He admits this would work by saying he will reform planning for wind energy, so why not do the same for housing? Also, would have liked him to commit to a formal request for devolution of corporation tax. Would have been refused but would have been a powerful signal to business that we want to attract it to Scotland.
Childcare offer was excellent though and overall a good statement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Decent statement from Yousaf today. Would have liked them to have ditched the madness of rent controls but that will take care of itself in time as rents continue to rise because of it. Two other areas I would have liked to have heard more would be on reforming planning in order to boast housing. He admits this would work by saying he will reform planning for wind energy, so why not do the same for housing? Also, would have liked him to commit to a formal request for devolution of corporation tax. Would have been refused but would have been a powerful signal to business that we want to attract it to Scotland.
Childcare offer was excellent though and overall a good statement.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Have you got a link to the details as all I can see is Scotland is going to offer free childcare to 2 year olds, England are going to offer to 9 months onwards.

The funding for each child will have to increase England is increasing the funding for 2 years old from £6.00 to £7.95. That's essential to get the nurseries to take on the kids

People are struggling to get funded spaces as it is in Edinburgh without the increase. Nurseries also mostly only accept 50 hours so 30 funded 20 you pay for, they can pick and choose who they take just now.

Definitely a great thing, if it's funded properly

[grunt]

Have you got a link to the details as all I can see is Scotland is going to offer free childcare to 2 year olds, England are going to offer to 9 months onwards.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/programme-government-2023-2024-first-ministers-speech/

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.gov.scot/publications/programme-government-2023-2024-first-ministers-speech/

Read that on twitter but no details. Thought they would have went from 9 months straight away, although they are trialling that. The funding per place being increased is what I'm interested in, but It'll be revealed soon enough. It's great the uk is catching up with the more progressive in Europe here though

Ta

[Ozyhibby]

Read that on twitter but no details. Thought they would have went from 9 months straight away, although they are trialling that. The funding per place being increased is what I'm interested in, but It'll be revealed soon enough. It's great the uk is catching up with the more progressive in Europe here though

Ta

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-66722108?at_campaign_type=owned&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_format=link&at_link_id=96170E38-4C07-11EE-9033-7811D66E6F62&at_medium=social&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_link_type=web_link&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_bbc_team=editorial

He says from 9 month until end of primary school.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-66722108?at_campaign_type=owned&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_format=link&at_link_id=96170E38-4C07-11EE-9033-7811D66E6F62&at_medium=social&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_link_type=web_link&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_bbc_team=editorial

He says from 9 month until end of primary school.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No in 6 areas it will be trialed for eligible kids from 9 months, in the other areas from 2. I'm more interested in the funding of places increase as it'll be immaterial without it.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66727813?at_medium=social&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_link_type=web_link&at_format=link&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_id=1D03A478-4CA9-11EE-AA7B-1102FE754D29&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_campaign_type=owned

More disappointment for the opposition.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/cllrscottarthur/status/1699330951388565946?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

If only we had a scheme for such things?[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[greenginger]

https://x.com/cllrscottarthur/status/1699330951388565946?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

If only we had a scheme for such things?[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Obviously glass bottles are getting returned for recycling without any 20p deposit.

Just needs the colllection guys to get their ass in gear.

[Ozyhibby]

Obviously glass bottles are getting returned for recycling without any 20p deposit.

Just needs the colllection guys to get their ass in gear.

Just been round there and the bottles have now been collected but there is broken glass all over the car park.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Snp should focus on independence and the swing voters, it seems almost all efforts are on the already converted. Holyrood a bit better but Humza won't last mp numbers being decimated and a clear no lead in the polls next year.

@RedfieldWilton
·
'No' leads by 5 points.

Scotland Independence Referendum Voting Intention (2–4 September):
No 49% (+1)
Yes 44% (-1)
Don't Know 6% (-1)
Changes +/- 5-6 August


SNP and Labour are TIED in Scotland!

Scotland Westminster VI (2-4 September):

SNP 35% (-2)
Labour 35% (+1)
Conservative 15% (-2)
Lib Dem 8% (+1)
Green 4% (+2)
Reform 2% (–)
Other 1% (–)

Changes +/- 5-6 August

Holyrood Regional List VI (2-4 September):

Labour 30% (–)
SNP 25% (-4)
Conservatives 15% (-3)
Green 14% (+5)
Lib Dems 9% (-1)
Alba 4% (+2)
Reform UK 3% (–)
Other 1% (–)

Holyrood Constituency VI (2-4 September):

SNP 39% (+3)
Labour 30% (-2)
Conservative 16% (-3)
Lib Dem 8% (–)
Green 3% (+1)
Reform 3% (+2)
Alba 1% (–)
Other 0% (–)

[Ozyhibby]

Snp should focus on independence and the swing voters, it seems almost all efforts are on the already converted. Holyrood a bit better but Humza won't last mp numbers being decimated and a clear no lead in the polls next year.

@RedfieldWilton
·
'No' leads by 5 points.

Scotland Independence Referendum Voting Intention (2–4 September):
No 49% (+1)
Yes 44% (-1)
Don't Know 6% (-1)
Changes +/- 5-6 August


SNP and Labour are TIED in Scotland!

Scotland Westminster VI (2-4 September):

SNP 35% (-2)
Labour 35% (+1)
Conservative 15% (-2)
Lib Dem 8% (+1)
Green 4% (+2)
Reform 2% (–)
Other 1% (–)

Changes +/- 5-6 August

Holyrood Regional List VI (2-4 September):

Labour 30% (–)
SNP 25% (-4)
Conservatives 15% (-3)
Green 14% (+5)
Lib Dems 9% (-1)
Alba 4% (+2)
Reform UK 3% (–)
Other 1% (–)

Holyrood Constituency VI (2-4 September):

SNP 39% (+3)
Labour 30% (-2)
Conservative 16% (-3)
Lib Dem 8% (–)
Green 3% (+1)
Reform 3% (+2)
Alba 1% (–)
Other 0% (–)

That would spell the end for Yousaf and usher in Stephen Flynn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm confident it won't be this and I'm also confident SNP will do better closer to the election, but things need to start changing now. Election 12 months away and sleeping into a poor result.

ElectionMapsUK
My Seat Model (New Boundaries):

LAB: 28 (+27)
SNP: 18 (-30)
CON: 6 (=)
LDM: 5 (+3)

Changes w/ GE2019 Notional

[Jack]

https://x.com/cllrscottarthur/status/1699330951388565946?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

If only we had a scheme for such things?[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It's been the same all over the city recently.

Between the end of the Festivals and the short term lets in Leith there were enough bottles around the bins to drain the Atlantic, normally you could only drain the North Sea!

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/alexwickham/status/1700141314862416117?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Tories out to cut benefits again. Get ready for attacks on the SNP for not mitigating them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Any news on the charges against SNP leadership?

[grunt]

Any news on the charges against SNP leadership?Apparently, according to the newspaper of note, the Herald, they've all been charged.
I must have missed this.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F56cB39XwAAwFVz?format=webp&name=large

[Stairway 2 7]

Snp vote on Tue to discuss Fergus Ewings fate. 3 line whip so unsure why the effort

[Keith_M]

"A YouGov survey gave Humza Yousaf's party an 11-point advantage over Labour and up two points since last month with 38% of voters supporting it. At the same time Labour fell five points to 27 per cent.

Under Westminster boundaries, this would mean the SNP winning 39 seats while Labour would return 11, a significant increase from the one the party has at present. The SNP holds 44 Westminster seats.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23791394.poll-blow-labour-yougov-puts-snp-top-bigger-lead/



It's one survey, so doesn't mean a lot in isolation. However it does suggest that some of the predictions of a Labour takeover in Scotland were a tad premature.

"...However, previous polls had suggested Labour could return 22 MPs with the SNP falling to 26. "

[Ozyhibby]

"A YouGov survey gave Humza Yousaf's party an 11-point advantage over Labour and up two points since last month with 38% of voters supporting it. At the same time Labour fell five points to 27 per cent.

Under Westminster boundaries, this would mean the SNP winning 39 seats while Labour would return 11, a significant increase from the one the party has at present. The SNP holds 44 Westminster seats.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23791394.poll-blow-labour-yougov-puts-snp-top-bigger-lead/



It's one survey, so doesn't mean a lot in isolation. However it does suggest that some of the predictions of a Labour takeover in Scotland were a tad premature.

"...However, previous polls had suggested Labour could return 22 MPs with the SNP falling to 26. "

Sarwar can’t be kept of the airwaves forever. He will have to front Labour’s campaign knowing he’s not the actual leader and promoting policies he doesn’t actually believe in.
Head to head I think Yousaf is better than him anyway but having to parrot policies he doesn’t believe in will be a significant handicap.
Labour will win the by-election but come a full campaign and I don’t think he will be able to match the SNP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

The polling shows SNP would win Rutherglen. Labour are 1/12 on, so the bookmakers disagree. I'm sure snp will be ahead of Labour but a 10+ drop couldn't be painted as anything but a disaster. One year to go but will be interesting to see if other polls match going forward

[greenginger]

The polling shows SNP would win Rutherglen. Labour are 1/12 on, so the bookmakers disagree. I'm sure snp will be ahead of Labour but a 10+ drop couldn't be painted as anything but a disaster. One year to go but will be interesting to see if other polls match going forward

The number of seats the SNP might lose at the next election will depend on the extent of tactical voting.

[grunt]

Sarwar can’t be kept of the airwaves forever. He will have to front Labour’s campaign knowing he’s not the actual leader and promoting policies he doesn’t actually believe in.
Par for the course. In Rutherglen they've got a Labour candidate who didn't vote Labour in 2019.

[Ozyhibby]

The polling shows SNP would win Rutherglen. Labour are 1/12 on, so the bookmakers disagree. I'm sure snp will be ahead of Labour but a 10+ drop couldn't be painted as anything but a disaster. One year to go but will be interesting to see if other polls match going forward

I don’t think they have a chance in Rutherglen. Too early.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Keith_M]

I don’t think they have a chance in Rutherglen. Too early.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Rutherglen is also quite a 'staunch' Unionist area, so there will be quite a sizeable resistance to any party threatening to break their beloved Union.

[Stairway 2 7]

3 days of school closures next week. A pain for parents but I support the workers. The best thing about the unfortunate strikes has been showing unions aren't dead. Hopefully a deal can be sorted in time

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/school-strikes-council-chief-issues-apology-to-parents-over-emergency-closures-due-to-strike-action-4341640?fbclid=IwAR07t06rDO9nXj39qmSWHpvKKGfCJ6SYy y9-GZjycCvYj2ebtQdOF0W6BJ8

[Ozyhibby]

3 days of school closures next week. A pain for parents but I support the workers. The best thing about the unfortunate strikes has been showing unions aren't dead. Hopefully a deal can be sorted in time

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/school-strikes-council-chief-issues-apology-to-parents-over-emergency-closures-due-to-strike-action-4341640?fbclid=IwAR07t06rDO9nXj39qmSWHpvKKGfCJ6SYy y9-GZjycCvYj2ebtQdOF0W6BJ8

Good thing is the kids are doing their classes from home so it minimises the disruption a bit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Good thing is the kids are doing their classes from home so it minimises the disruption a bit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Doesn't help the staff at my work having to take days off to look after kids. Classes from home don't kids need school. For some it's the only safe environment they have. Covid showed us it disproportionately effected kids that need the help the most. Effects less those lucky kids with their own bedroom and a nice desk.

Hopefully they get their heads together and get a deal, I'm sure they will but hopefully soon

[Ozyhibby]

Watching Newsnight tonight, it appears that UK govt are cancelling the deposit return scheme that they are insisting that Scotland copy?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[StevieC]

3 days of school closures next week. A pain for parents but I support the workers. The best thing about the unfortunate strikes has been showing unions aren't dead. Hopefully a deal can be sorted in time

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/school-strikes-council-chief-issues-apology-to-parents-over-emergency-closures-due-to-strike-action-4341640?fbclid=IwAR07t06rDO9nXj39qmSWHpvKKGfCJ6SYy y9-GZjycCvYj2ebtQdOF0W6BJ8

There’s a lot more to this than just supporting the workers, I wish I could go into it in more depth.

[marinello59]

3 days of school closures next week. A pain for parents but I support the workers. The best thing about the unfortunate strikes has been showing unions aren't dead. Hopefully a deal can be sorted in time

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/school-strikes-council-chief-issues-apology-to-parents-over-emergency-closures-due-to-strike-action-4341640?fbclid=IwAR07t06rDO9nXj39qmSWHpvKKGfCJ6SYy y9-GZjycCvYj2ebtQdOF0W6BJ8

Well done to the Unions for continuing to stand up for their members. The employers have been getting off lightly for far too long.

[Pretty Boy]

3 days of school closures next week. A pain for parents but I support the workers. The best thing about the unfortunate strikes has been showing unions aren't dead. Hopefully a deal can be sorted in time

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/school-strikes-council-chief-issues-apology-to-parents-over-emergency-closures-due-to-strike-action-4341640?fbclid=IwAR07t06rDO9nXj39qmSWHpvKKGfCJ6SYy y9-GZjycCvYj2ebtQdOF0W6BJ8

No issue with this from me despite it having a direct impact.

Too many people involved in educating our children are chronically underpaid and, as some of the comments when the teacher were out on strike showed, underappreciated.

The workers involved have my full support.

[Ozyhibby]

https://davidhumeinstitute.org/latest-news/2023/9/18/scottish-child-payment-why-arent-more-people-talking-about-itnbsp-and-why-they-should

It doesn’t get talked about because it’s the SNP. A magnificent policy.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[StevieC]

Well done to the Unions for continuing to stand up for their members. The employers have been getting off lightly for far too long.

I think there is a bit more at play here, especially with Unison, and if that’s the case then it’s certainly not a case of standing up for their members. Two of the three unions seem ready to reballot members.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/stvcolin/status/1705157185942999455?s=12
Good news.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[weecounty hibby]

I think there is a bit more at play here, especially with Unison, and if that’s the case then it’s certainly not a case of standing up for their members. Two of the three unions seem ready to reballot members.
Could it be the Unison leader looking for publicity as she pushes for Labour nomination for WM? Not even taking the new offer to members is not good.

[weecounty hibby]

Some very interesting comms coming out from Unite about this. Can't paste it in so I'll type the important bit. After explaining the new deal they go on to say

"Unfortunately our colleagues in Unison have taken the bizarre decision to continue with their strike action whike ballotingtheir members. This oresupposes that their members will follow their recommendation to reject the offer however if their members vote to accept then they will have to explain to those members why they have lost three days pay and pension contributions" They then go on to say "in the event that Unison continue with their strike action next week our members should attend work as normal with our GMB colleagues, unfortunately this could mean having to cross a picket line. If those on the picket line are unhappy with this then you should ask why they are on strike while their own union members may be voting to accept the deal"

[StevieC]

Could it be the Unison leader looking for publicity as she pushes for Labour nomination for WM? Not even taking the new offer to members is not good.

And the Rutherglen and Hamilton West by-election.

I also received a similar copy of the letter you’ve detailed above .. but the feeling for a while now is that Unison have been playing politics with their members wages in a Labour v SNP battle to try and make the Scottish government look bad in the run up to the Rutherglen by election.

I mentioned a few days ago that I had an insight into negotiations, and that there was more to it than met the eye. The letter from Unite pretty much confirms it, especially when they class the decision of Unison to pursue strike action as “bizarre”.

[marinello59]

And the Rutherglen and Hamilton West by-election.

I also received a similar copy of the letter you’ve detailed above .. but the feeling for a while now is that Unison have been playing politics with their members wages in a Labour v SNP battle to try and make the Scottish government look bad in the run up to the Rutherglen by election.

I mentioned a few days ago that I had an insight into negotiations, and that there was more to it than met the eye. The letter from Unite pretty much confirms it, especially when they class the decision of Unison to pursue strike action as “bizarre”.

This is straight from Thatcher’s playbook of the early eighties. Union won’t settle? Question their motives and spin and smear them as being politically motivated rather than acting for the benefit of the workers. We’ve seen it before with the Glasgow bin workers strike where completely unfounded allegations were spread around as fact on social media as to why the workers were out.
On Tuesday an extra £80 million appeared at the last minute that the employers said wasn’t there. It still falls far short of restoring workers pay to what it should have been after years of neglect. Well done to any Union staying out, they’ve been lied to enough already. And I would be saying the same thing no matter who the employer was.

[Ozyhibby]

This is straight from Thatcher’s playbook of the early eighties. Union won’t settle? Question their motives and spin and smear them as being politically motivated rather than acting for the benefit of the workers. We’ve seen it before with the Glasgow bin workers strike where completely unfounded allegations were spread around as fact on social media as to why the workers were out.
On Tuesday an extra £80 million appeared at the last minute that the employers said wasn’t there. It still falls far short of restoring workers pay to what it should have been after years of neglect. Well done to any Union staying out, they’ve been lied to enough already. And I would be saying the same thing no matter who the employer was.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230922/2aae3f1038138c2e0d1ba21d8b49019b.jpg
It’s Unite who are attacking Unison.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[weecounty hibby]

This is straight from Thatcher’s playbook of the early eighties. Union won’t settle? Question their motives and spin and smear them as being politically motivated rather than acting for the benefit of the workers. We’ve seen it before with the Glasgow bin workers strike where completely unfounded allegations were spread around as fact on social media as to why the workers were out.
On Tuesday an extra £80 million appeared at the last minute that the employers said wasn’t there. It still falls far short of restoring workers pay to what it should have been after years of neglect. Well done to any Union staying out, they’ve been lied to enough already. And I would be saying the same thing no matter who the employer was.

It's not an extra £80m though. It's been taken from other budgets. There is a finite budget for councils and the Scottish government. I would suggest that the fact that in Scotland we haven't seen too many strikes and that negotiations have been fairly amicable and that workers here are better off than their counterparts in other countries of the UK is nigh on miraculous.

[marinello59]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230922/2aae3f1038138c2e0d1ba21d8b49019b.jpg
It’s Unite who are attacking Unison.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Are the Unite leadership claiming that this is connected to the Unison leader wanting publicity for their Westminster bid? Or that it is connected to the Rutherglen by election ? That’s how it will be used, like I said, straight out of Thatcher’s playbook.
Or is it simply a leaked branch memo reflecting a difference of opinion on the way forward? It’s unfortunate in that it lets the employers and their supporters try and portray the Unions as divided. There are disagreements behind the scenes during any long running dispute. I have no problem with the curtain being lifted slightly at times. When some workers return and others stay out it does create difficult situations. Hopefully they are dealt with amicably.

[StevieC]

This is straight from Thatcher’s playbook of the early eighties.


On Tuesday an extra £80 million appeared at the last minute that the employers said wasn’t there.

I can only comment on what’s been happening during these negotiations, I can’t comment on Thatcher in the 80’s as I had only just been introduced to alcohol and had other priorities on my mind .. although dodging the poll tax was one of them.

It wasn’t there, and it still isn’t there. Every 1% above 2% is a £1m hit on local authority budgets, unless the Scottish Government subsidise (although that’s then a hit on their budget). It’s services that will probably take the biggest hit, and there may also be job losses.

I don’t like getting too political about this, probably because I still view myself as a socialist at heart and all for a proper wage (I voted against the Tories in PKC Leisure to keep the “real” living wage in place, despite the strains that this would then put on delivering Leisure services) but the way that Unison have carried out negotiations does have many asking questions about whether they had other motives.

That’s me out ..

[Ozyhibby]

Are the Unite leadership claiming that this is connected to the Unison leader wanting publicity for their Westminster bid? Or that it is connected to the Rutherglen by election ? That’s how it will be used, like I said, straight out of Thatcher’s playbook.
Or is it simply a leaked branch memo reflecting a difference of opinion on the way forward? It’s unfortunate in that it lets the employers and their supporters try and portray the Unions as divided. There are disagreements behind the scenes during any long running dispute. I have no problem with the curtain being lifted slightly at times. When some workers return and others stay out it does create difficult situations. Hopefully they are dealt with amicably.

When a union seems determined to strike even whil having an offer good enough to take back to their members then of course people are going to be questioning the motivations of the leadership.
Costing their own members wages next week when there is a potential resolution on the table is a very strange behaviour.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[marinello59]

Good luck to the striking Unison workers today and well done. The abuse that some of their officials have taken online from those more interested in protecting the employer has been pretty disgusting.
You don’t change sides depending on who that employer is. I hope they get plenty of support from everyone concerned at how workers have had to carry an unfair load for far too long.

[Moulin Yarns]

Good luck to the striking Unison workers today and well done. The abuse that some of their officials have taken online from those more interested in protecting the employer has been pretty disgusting.
You don’t change sides depending on who that employer is. I hope they get plenty of support from everyone concerned at how workers have had to carry an unfair load for far too long.

I was in unison. My gripe is that the executive decided not to put it to the members, while Gmb and unite are. How do they know what the members want if they don't ask?

[Ozyhibby]

Good luck to the striking Unison workers today and well done. The abuse that some of their officials have taken online from those more interested in protecting the employer has been pretty disgusting.
You don’t change sides depending on who that employer is. I hope they get plenty of support from everyone concerned at how workers have had to carry an unfair load for far too long.

Are unison working in their members best interests? If their members accept the offer then they have lost the best part of a weeks wages for nothing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Any news on the police investigation into SNP finances ...?

[grunt]

I was in unison. My gripe is that the executive decided not to put it to the members, while Gmb and unite are. How do they know what the members want if they don't ask?
I've not been following this. Have UNISON put the revised offer to their members? If so, what was the result?

[Ozyhibby]

I've not been following this. Have UNISON put the revised offer to their members? If so, what was the result?

They are putting to their members but results not back yet. Decided to strike anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[marinello59]

I've not been following this. Have UNISON put the revised offer to their members? If so, what was the result?

The Union membership voted overwhelmingly to strike in support of the demands being made. That action is being taken today.
The COSLA offer fell short of what has been asked for so the democratically elected leadership are recommending the membership reject the deal and that will go to a digital ballot.
In the meantime the fight goes on and today has seen the membership take to the picket lines in large numbers.

[grunt]

Seems to me that Tommy Sheppard is going to lose his court case v the UK Gov about the release of Gov polling on the union.

[Pretty Boy]

Good luck to the striking Unison workers today and well done. The abuse that some of their officials have taken online from those more interested in protecting the employer has been pretty disgusting.
You don’t change sides depending on who that employer is. I hope they get plenty of support from everyone concerned at how workers have had to carry an unfair load for far too long.

Had a few friends out on strike today. Their only motive was to get what they deserve.

These supporting workers play a huge part in educating our children and deserve to be paid and appreciated accordingly. Some of the rhetoric when discussing them is really poor. It's a sad day when I see people I know whoa re self proclaimed socialists trotting out the worst kind of Thatcherite anti union cliches because they don't like who Tue unions are fighting in this instance.

[Pretty Boy]

Are unison working in their members best interests? If their members accept the offer then they have lost the best part of a weeks wages for nothing?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Unison members can apply for strike pay up to the value of £70. Shocking as it is that will represent the majority of a days pay for those on the 'living' wage of £10.42 an hour.

It's a catch 22 really. When you are expected to live on £10.42 an hour you can't afford to strike but then you can't afford not to strike either when pay rises have been below inflation for years on end.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-66948446?fbclid=IwAR2OcNgxsmmmMeYW3TkgHMwscBOszAJf xsFlbK74M65UIkmdRGAWwqFe2cY


A trial DRS including bottles is live and working in Wales. Right scottish government, roll it out as originally planned because there is the proof that if it works in one part of the 'uk' then it will work in all parts of the 'uk'.

[Stairway 2 7]

Scotlands national poet one of dozens of people in the arts hitting out at Scottish government cut in arts funding

https://twitter.com/KathleenJamie/status/1707441350126243952

A petition fighting it has reached 12,000 signatures
https://www.campaignforthearts.org/petitions/scotland-cuts-reimposed/

[grunt]

Scotlands national poet one of dozens of people in the arts hitting out at Scottish government cut in arts funding
I agree with her. Disappointed in SNP response here.

[marinello59]

Scotlands national poet one of dozens of people in the arts hitting out at Scottish government cut in arts funding

https://twitter.com/KathleenJamie/status/1707441350126243952

A petition fighting it has reached 12,000 signatures
https://www.campaignforthearts.org/petitions/scotland-cuts-reimposed/

Signed. Hopefully the funding is restored and Angus Robertson resigns.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1709539263480558005?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

How can NS get a fair hearing now? The PM has pronounced her guilty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1709539263480558005?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

How can NS get a fair hearing now? The PM has pronounced her guilty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Doesn't he have two fines from the police in the last few years, unlike NS

[greenginger]

https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1709539263480558005?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

How can NS get a fair hearing now? The PM has pronounced her guilty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sunak said “ may go down “ . That’s hardly a pronouncement of guilt .

[Kato]

Sunak said “ may go down “ . That’s hardly a pronouncement of guilt .Sure, that makes it OK, although I'm sure Rishi appreciates the support.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

Sure, that makes it OK, although I'm sure Rishi appreciates the support.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

PF left in no doubt about what the PM wants from it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kato]

PF left in no doubt about what the PM wants from it.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWhat is it again? Must be reeeaaaly bad for any politician in our free and wonderfully bestest nation to face stardy, given where the bar for non-investigation is set.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[marinello59]

Sunak said “ may go down “ . That’s hardly a pronouncement of guilt .

It was a really poor joke, the type that politicians of every party crack . Sad stuff. Anybody taking it seriously needs to give themselves a shake though.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://x.com/lewis_goodall/status/1709539263480558005?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

How can NS get a fair hearing now? The PM has pronounced her guilty.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/politics/sunak-reported-to-police-over-conference-speech-comments-360110/?fbclid=IwAR0mQ2XLceczRHEWq4Zb8W98eULr0tdQvsjYKDSV JLxZ61UtBFi7_4OyrEM


This would be hilarious if found guilty.

[Stairway 2 7]

Steven flynn getting in quick to say things need addressed

https://archive.ph/Z0JKS

Stephen Flynn says SNP must confront 'the scale of challenge' it faces

Stephen Flynn has called for a “full post mortem” into the SNP’s Rutherglen & Hamilton West by-election defeat, saying the party must be frank about the problems it faces.
The SNP’s Westminster leader said it would be unwise “to try and downplay the scale of the challenge that faces us as a result of this”.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-67021626

Yet another 'toxic' green party proposal which has cross party support. Waiting on Westminster blocking it 😉

[marinello59]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-67021626

Yet another 'toxic' green party proposal which has cross party support. Waiting on Westminster blocking it 😉

Unlikely given we are the last UK nation to introduce this.

[Stairway 2 7]

Cherry odds on to get bombed this year? Pretty much constantly against, think she likes the trappings too much to join Alba

Joanna Cherry KC
@joannaccherry
·
2h
The identity politics the party has been pursuing to fill the void in policy making have been very divisive. This was revealed during the campaign when SNP activists and councillors saw fit to picket outside a hustings focusing on women’s issues

[marinello59]

Cherry odds on to get bombed this year? Pretty much constantly against, think she likes the trappings too much to join Alba

Joanna Cherry KC
@joannaccherry
·
2h
The identity politics the party has been pursuing to fill the void in policy making have been very divisive. This was revealed during the campaign when SNP activists and councillors saw fit to picket outside a hustings focusing on women’s issues

She just needs to hang fire until Forbes is leader.

[Ozyhibby]

She just needs to hang fire until Forbes is leader.

I think it will be Flynn. He’s in the wrong parliament but I think if he stands he wins.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

I think it will be Flynn. He’s in the wrong parliament but I think if he stands he wins.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How does he do it. I assumed wrongly last time he could just jump. Does he not contend next GE then go for Scottish. Whatever it is I hope it can be done smoothly. I very reluctantly wanted Forbes as I thought she wins most votes, but they are words apart in competence and beliefs for what I want

[Stairway 2 7]

One poll so useless on its own, only significant as its the lowest snp score in 9 years. It won't play out like that, but it's clear SNP haven't bottomed out in polls.

ElectionMapsUK
Scottish Westminster Voting Intention:

SNP: 33% (-5)
LAB: 32% (+5)
CON: 20% (+4)
LDM: 5% (-2)
GRN: 5% (-1)
RFM: 2% (-2)

Via
@YouGov
, 2-6 Oct

My Seat Model (New Boundaries):

LAB: 28 (+27)
SNP: 17 (-31)
CON: 8 (+2)
LDM: 4 (+2)

Changes w/ GE2019 Notionals

[grunt]

One poll so useless on its own, only significant as its the lowest snp score in 9 years. It won't play out like that, but it's clear SNP haven't bottomed out in polls.
One of those polls I find difficult to believe. Who decides to change their vote to the lying Tories after their performance at conference? Incredible.

[Stairway 2 7]

One of those polls I find difficult to believe. Who decides to change their vote to the lying Tories after their performance at conference? Incredible.

Unfortunately that's 3 polls in a row in Scotland with a rise in the Tory vote, disgusting. Thankfully UK wide they have fallen after the conference.

[grunt]

It's all over. Close down Holyrood, it's time for us all to go home.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8Eivo9XwAAEn_1?format=jpg&name=medium

[neil7908]

Unfortunately that's 3 polls in a row in Scotland with a rise in the Tory vote, disgusting. Thankfully UK wide they have fallen after the conference.

I'm completely baffled by people. It's natural after this long in Government, the current cost of living crisis, Sturgeon under investigation etc that people will be turning away from the SNP.

But the Tories?? Totally bizarre, especially at a time when Labour are bending over backwards to appeal to Tory voters.

[Moulin Yarns]

Humza reintroduces the council tax freeze!!!

[Ozyhibby]

Humza reintroduces the council tax freeze!!!

Inevitable after Labour’s success in Rutherglen in attacking the rises in the top bands. If something doesn’t work electorally then it has to be dropped.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

Inevitable after Labour’s success in Rutherglen in attacking the rises in the top bands. If something doesn’t work electorally then it has to be dropped.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Sorry oz but a promise to reform it was the best option for everyone.

[Stairway 2 7]

Inevitable after Labour’s success in Rutherglen in attacking the rises in the top bands. If something doesn’t work electorally then it has to be dropped.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's what you slam Labour for, pandering to voters. It's a poor idea when councils are struggling. It obviously needs reforming though and they have had over a decade to do it

[Ozyhibby]

Sorry oz but a promise to reform it was the best option for everyone.

He did that as well but I doubt it will happen. It can’t be reformed in isolation and as it’s one of very few taxes we have control over it just can’t be done.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

That's what you slam Labour for, pandering to voters. It's a poor idea when councils are struggling. It obviously needs reforming though and they have had over a decade to do it

Voters want it frozen.
It can’t be reformed without control over other tax powers.
My preference would be for all local funding to be devolved but it just can’t happen without permission from London.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Paul1642]

Not a fan of today’s announcements overall, especially the council tax freeze at a time when local authorities are completely skint. Edinburgh councils proposals for next year were as follows:

“ Under the proposals, people in Band E would pay 7.5 per cent more in council tax, those in Band F properties would see a 12.5 per cent increase, bills for Band G houses would rise by 17.5 per cent and Band H households would see the biggest rises at 22.5 per cent”.

Whilst a 7.5% rise as a band E owner wasn’t exactly what I wanted I completely agree with the need for councils to raise more tax and feel that adjusting the scales upwards in the proposed manner was the best way to go at the moment. Whilst I shouldn’t complain at not paying an extra £190 next year, when spit over 10 months I would much rather pay £19 a month than see our already screwed council make more cuts.

I work in East and Midlothian and can confirm that their councils are as cash strapped as ours and it’s probably fair to assume the issue is Scotland (and UK) wide.

2) 100 million for arts and culture over 5 years. Sorry but this just isn’t a priory for me when people are struggling to survive and the whole public sector is in turmoil. Money which should be spent elsewhere right now.

I’m on board with the rest of the plans which are

£500 million towards offshore wind power.
£500k towards domestic abuse victims.
£400k for high street developments
£300 million towards cutting NHS waiting lists.

The Gaza resettlement comments are a different political issue best left for another thread IMO.

I don’t understand the offshore bond idea enough to have an opinion. Hopefully someone on here can elaborate what this means in reality.

[Stairway 2 7]

Voters want it frozen.
It can’t be reformed without control over other tax powers.
My preference would be for all local funding to be devolved but it just can’t happen without permission from London.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It can be and they said they would do it multiple times but that's a separate argument.

It should have risen as it actually means a huge cut to councils due to inflation. I'd prefer a rise in higher bands personally.

When Starmer does stuff to get elected its terrible but Yousaf its just sensible to get elected.

Most Scots want to pay the same tax as England a poll showed this week. Should we lower it to match as Scots want it or do what's right

[superfurryhibby]

Voters want it frozen.
It can’t be reformed without control over other tax powers.
My preference would be for all local funding to be devolved but it just can’t happen without permission from London.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sure what your response means, perhaps too rushed?

They can reform the council tax though

"A council tax revaluation for homes in Scotland is urgently needed for child poverty targets to be met, an advisory commission has said.

The Poverty and Inequality Commission says it is one of a series of measures needed by the Scottish Government to improve the tax system.

But it has warned that SNP ministers have lacked "political will" to bring forward long-promised revaluation plans for council tax"

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23859305.snp-lacking-political-will-promised-council-tax-revaluation/

Older article-https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30215510

Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has announced a commission to look at alternatives to the council tax.

Here, BBC Scotland's local government correspondent Jamie McIvor assesses some of the options.

Replacing the council tax has long been an SNP ambition but it has proved easier said than done.

In 2007, the party advocated replacing it with a "local income tax". In practice, this would have used Holyrood's power to raise income tax by 3p to help replace the money raised by council tax.

The parliament backed the idea of a local income tax but it proved impossible for the minority SNP administration to win enough support for its actual proposal.

Instead came the council tax freeze which survives to the present day and which the government expects to continue until 2017.

[Ozyhibby]

Not sure what your response means, perhaps too rushed?

They can reform the council tax though

"A council tax revaluation for homes in Scotland is urgently needed for child poverty targets to be met, an advisory commission has said.

The Poverty and Inequality Commission says it is one of a series of measures needed by the Scottish Government to improve the tax system.

But it has warned that SNP ministers have lacked "political will" to bring forward long-promised revaluation plans for council tax"

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23859305.snp-lacking-political-will-promised-council-tax-revaluation/

Older article-https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-30215510

Scottish First Minister Nicola Sturgeon has announced a commission to look at alternatives to the council tax.

Here, BBC Scotland's local government correspondent Jamie McIvor assesses some of the options.

Replacing the council tax has long been an SNP ambition but it has proved easier said than done.

In 2007, the party advocated replacing it with a "local income tax". In practice, this would have used Holyrood's power to raise income tax by 3p to help replace the money raised by council tax.

The parliament backed the idea of a local income tax but it proved impossible for the minority SNP administration to win enough support for its actual proposal.

Instead came the council tax freeze which survives to the present day and which the government expects to continue until 2017.

Those are two examples of failure to reform.
Proper reform of council tax within the current devolved set up is very very difficult to do. Even if a way could be found, it would almost certainly be attacked in a way that burned through a lot of political capital. I think we can all agree the SNP do not have the political capital to spare just now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

It can be and they said they would do it multiple times but that's a separate argument.

It should have risen as it actually means a huge cut to councils due to inflation. I'd prefer a rise in higher bands personally.

When Starmer does stuff to get elected its terrible but Yousaf its just sensible to get elected.

Most Scots want to pay the same tax as England a poll showed this week. Should we lower it to match as Scots want it or do what's right

I don’t think we are anywhere close to Starmer levels of political shape shifting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Those are two examples of failure to reform.
Proper reform of council tax within the current devolved set up is very very difficult to do. Even if a way could be found, it would almost certainly be attacked in a way that burned through a lot of political capital. I think we can all agree the SNP do not have the political capital to spare just now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They have had plenty of capital in the last 12 years and said they could and would.

They could easily have allowed the councils to raise it.

They are giving the councils huge cuts to help get voted in. If Labour did it SNP voters would rightly slam it

[Stairway 2 7]

I don’t think we are anywhere close to Starmer levels of political shape shifting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SNP back to "we're bad but were not as bad as..."

This is madness. Councils are toiling. Housing, homelessness services, drug services will all be effected. Its OK though as its good for votes

[Ozyhibby]

They have had plenty of capital in the last 12 years and said they could and would.

They could easily have allowed the councils to raise it.

They are giving the councils huge cuts to help get voted in. If Labour did it SNP voters would rightly slam it

I’m not supportive of it. I was happy with the plan to raise the top bands. It wasn’t going to happen though because people don’t want it and it would have cost them the election.
At which point, your out of power and still don’t have higher council tax. A lose lose for the SNP.

Labour campaigned against the rise in the higher council tax bands and they won. It would be madness not to recognise that. Fair play to Labour, they saw what people wanted and went with it. The SNP can’t carry on with a policy that will deliver a Labour govt at Holyrood. That puts at risk lots of other things we do here that Labour don’t do in Wales.

[Ozyhibby]

SNP back to "we're bad but were not as bad as..."

This is madness. Councils are toiling. Housing, homelessness services, drug services will all be effected. Its OK though as its good for votes

If you don’t win, it doesn’t really matter what your policy is. This change is backed by Labour and the Tories. The reason for that is people want it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

If you don’t win, it doesn’t really matter what your policy is. This change is backed by Labour and the Tories. The reason for that is people want it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Same energy when Starmer goes for policies that gets him in power. SNP could have raised it in the past when they had loads of capital.

You didn't answer though. Should they lower taxes to the same as England as that's what the public want. Its obviously no as it will cause harm, this is the same.

Also the party has been focusing on policies for the last year that they public don't care about but lots hate like GRA.

[Paul1642]

I don’t think a complete overhaul of the council tax system is the right way to go or even realisticly possible to be honest, which is probably why the SNP swerved it when they were in a position to deliver this.

What is defiantly needed however is a revelation of the currently bands / valuation system.

A lot has changed in the last 32 years since they were set and some once cheaper areas are now very affluent whilst others will be much less desirable than they once were.

I just had a quick glance on ESPC and there are flats in leith on the market for more than I could sell my home for which are band C, therefore paying almost £800 a year less in council tax than I am.

I don’t have the exact answer as to how this would be assessed as changing the band after a sale would benefit those who don’t move house for a long time, and basing it on local area average price would need to find a way to factor in the fact that some houses in a street are bigger than others and that the properties one street over can be drastically different in value.

Maybe some fomulae combining street sale prices over a 5 year period, square footage and number of bedrooms.

The current system certainly isn’t fit for purpose.

[superfurryhibby]

Those are two examples of failure to reform.
Proper reform of council tax within the current devolved set up is very very difficult to do. Even if a way could be found, it would almost certainly be attacked in a way that burned through a lot of political capital. I think we can all agree the SNP do not have the political capital to spare just now.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They have had 16 years in government to take action. They failed to deliver reform when they had the momentum to do so.

[Stairway 2 7]

What's obvious is it shouldn't have been frozen. Most councils were freezing the first few bands so in general this is a pay off to the better off at the expense of councils who will have to make cuts

[Jack]

How many manifesto pledges by all political parties have not been introduced since the SNP said anything about reforming council tax?

And why is this the only one that is continually brought up?

Just wondering 🤔

[Hiber-nation]

I don’t think a complete overhaul of the council tax system is the right way to go or even realisticly possible to be honest, which is probably why the SNP swerved it when they were in a position to deliver this.

What is defiantly needed however is a revelation of the currently bands / valuation system.

A lot has changed in the last 32 years since they were set and some once cheaper areas are now very affluent whilst others will be much less desirable than they once were.

I just had a quick glance on ESPC and there are flats in leith on the market for more than I could sell my home for which are band C, therefore paying almost £800 a year less in council tax than I am.

I don’t have the exact answer as to how this would be assessed as changing the band after a sale would benefit those who don’t move house for a long time, and basing it on local area average price would need to find a way to factor in the fact that some houses in a street are bigger than others and that the properties one street over can be drastically different in value.

Maybe some fomulae combining street sale prices over a 5 year period, square footage and number of bedrooms.

The current system certainly isn’t fit for purpose.

Yep using values of 32 years ago is ridiculous. I used to deal with some of this stuff when I worked in the SG and the consensus was that it would be too expensive for what would be a big shock to the system for some. Missed chance today, a freeze isn't going to fool people.

[Stairway 2 7]

How many manifesto pledges by all political parties have not been introduced since the SNP said anything about reforming council tax?

And why is this the only one that is continually brought up?

Just wondering 🤔

I'm not bothered about them not reforming I'm bothered about them cutting funds for councils in real terms, when councils are at breaking point. I'm actually stunned they are, a horrible populist decision

[Paul1642]

How many manifesto pledges by all political parties have not been introduced since the SNP said anything about reforming council tax?

And why is this the only one that is continually brought up?

Just wondering 🤔

Not being brought up for any reason other than being relevant to today’s announcement.

Labour have been out of power so long that no one can remember their failed pledges. I didn’t think many on here believe a word that comes out the Tory’s mouths anyway however their failed pledges do get brought up all the time on the Tory thread (see HS2 for most recent example)

[Ozyhibby]

I'm not bothered about them not reforming I'm bothered about them cutting funds for councils in real terms, when councils are at breaking point. I'm actually stunned they are, a horrible populist decision

I’m not saying it is a good policy. I would prefer a full reform of the whole system of local taxation. Nobody else does though. Lots of people say they do but the first sign of it and they immediately indicate they will vote for the other guy. That’s why it doesn’t happen.
People say they want one thing but vote for the other.
The SNP have taken note and changed course. If they hadn’t, all they would have been left with is a moral victory.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[superfurryhibby]

How many manifesto pledges by all political parties have not been introduced since the SNP said anything about reforming council tax?

And why is this the only one that is continually brought up?

Just wondering 🤔

Because they are government of Scotland and had the power not to make changes?

We can rip the pish oot of the Tories on another thread ;-)

[grunt]

2) 100 million for arts and culture over 5 years. Sorry but this just isn’t a priory for me when people are struggling to survive and the whole public sector is in turmoil. Money which should be spent elsewhere right now.
1. A lot of people work in the arts sector and need this funding to survive.

2. During Covid the arts sector did amazing work to keep peoples spirits up. We need them.

[Paul1642]

1. A lot of people work in the arts sector and need this funding to survive.

2. During Covid the arts sector did amazing work to keep peoples spirits up. We need them.

Not denying that the art sector has a place in society however it has the potential to generate income and doesn’t due to due to general lack of interest.

Policing, Schools, Prisons, Courts, Councils, Social work, the fire service and of course NHS are all on their knees and I don’t think it’s unfair to say that for the genaral population these things are considerably more important (even if they don’t directly use them) and the importance of these sectors combined with underfunding is creating a genuine threat to life in cases and a reduction to quality of life in others.

Other than council tax (limited once again today) none of these can raise any money themselves.

In an ideal world I’d be all for increasing funding to the art sector but in the current economy situation, at the expense of the other sectors mentioned above is just not justifiable IMO. £100 million over 5 years would be a lot more than a drop in the ocean to most of these sectors.

The jobs being saved / lost is negligible because jobs would be saved / lost in other sectors over 100 millions.

Having cops to attend immediate response calls and help people in danger / crisis, learning assistants to help our snowed under teachers / vulnerable kids, social work to help the families that they need it most ect or a few more ambulances on the road to attend medical emergencies is more important than keeping the spirits up if a small minority who are interested in art during the next pandemic.

It shouldn’t be one or the other but unfortunately it is.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231017/eddbc07244b1cb88a60873639ff2f378.jpg
Political editor of the Scotsman.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

In an ideal world I’d be all for increasing funding to the art sector but in the current economy situation, at the expense of the other sectors mentioned above is just not justifiable IMO.
Life without the arts is not worth living.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231017/eddbc07244b1cb88a60873639ff2f378.jpg
Political editor of the Scotsman.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Reform is a separate argument to freezing it.

[marinello59]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231017/eddbc07244b1cb88a60873639ff2f378.jpg
Political editor of the Scotsman.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The SNP promised to scrap the council tax and had the opportunity to do it, they chose not to. Restoring the council tax freeze is a truly horrendous decision given that they know the damage and legacy left by the previous freeze. Shame on them.

[Stairway 2 7]

1. A lot of people work in the arts sector and need this funding to survive.

2. During Covid the arts sector did amazing work to keep peoples spirits up. We need them.

I agree. Culture shouldn't be competing against our services as it will never win. You could then argue all music and art and culture funding should be cancelled as long as there is one hungry child. Sell off art galleries and museums that make a loss to feed the hungry.

That's looking at half the equation. Culture is one of the uk/Scots biggest export and contributer. These figures are uk but I reckon with the festival and our pop we probably do better per head. These are old figures but a good example. Uk gov was £440million but that brought in £48bil and 365,000 jobs. Its a huge sector and many of these jobs will go without support

That's a matter of fact financial view but more than that culture is important to a joyful place to live

"Based on the Arts Council England report commissioned from the Centre for Economic and Business Research (CEBR), the arts and culture industry in 2016 was responsible for:

£21.2bn in direct turnover
£10.8bn in Gross Value Added (GVA), with £8.6bn of this generated by the market segment of the industry and the remaining £2.2bn contributed by the non-market organisations
137,250 jobs
£6.1bn in employee compensation
When indirect and induced effects are also added in, the arts and culture industry is estimated to have supported £48bn in turnover, £23bn in GVA, 363,713 jobs and £13.4bn in employee compensation"

"The Arts Council of England received total grant in aid of £440.1m"



https://www.thecreativeindustries.co.uk/facts-figures/industries-arts-culture-arts-culture-facts-and-figures-the-economic-contribution-of-the-arts

[Pretty Boy]

A council tax freeze is the final nail in coffin when it comes to the chance of me voting SNP, a hideous, populist policy that will be devastating for the poorest in our society.

My local library used to run loads of great classes for parents and kids, the elderly etc. Vast majority have stopped now and library only opens 3 days a week. My daughter has been out of school multiple times because the funding isn't there to pay teachers, teaching assistants, catering staff etc etc in schools a fair wage, we had rubbish piling up in the streets because the money wasn't there to pay refuse workers a fair wage and the central government solution is to heap further pressure on those budgets by freezing council tax to try and buy votes because for some there is an inexplicable preference for £5 in your pocket paid for by £10 worth of cuts.

They can GTF.

[grunt]

... £5 in your pocket paid for by £10 worth of cuts.
Why does £5 less income result in £10 of cuts to services?

[grunt]

Sarwar attacked the SNP in Holyrood last month on the cost of living impact of expected increases in Council Tax. Now that they have frozen CT, will he congratulate them on listening to his words? Or will he be a hypocrite and attack them for the CT freeze? I wonder.

[Ozyhibby]

The problem here isn’t that there is going to be a tax cut or rise. Politicians will always respond to what the public wants.
The problem is who is setting it. The FM should be nowhere near local taxation. The way the UK state is set up is far too centralised.
This is Labour and Tory policy as well and the SNP are merely matching it in order to avoid electoral defeat. It’s a crap policy that is necessary because we have a poorly designed form of govt.
And it’s a UK problem as Starmer has the exact same policy in England. Should a PM be involved in setting council tax rates?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[superfurryhibby]

A council tax freeze is the final nail in coffin when it comes to the chance of me voting SNP, a hideous, populist policy that will be devastating for the poorest in our society.

My local library used to run loads of great classes for parents and kids, the elderly etc. Vast majority have stopped now and library only opens 3 days a week. My daughter has been out of school multiple times because the funding isn't there to pay teachers, teaching assistants, catering staff etc etc in schools a fair wage, we had rubbish piling up in the streets because the money wasn't there to pay refuse workers a fair wage and the central government solution is to heap further pressure on those budgets by freezing council tax to try and buy votes because for some there is an inexplicable preference for £5 in your pocket paid for by £10 worth of cuts.

They can GTF.

We can add the devastation of social care services to that list of shame. Social work operating on a crisis basis, social care provision stripped to the absolute bone, with councils commissioning from dubious companies set up to take advantage of the sponsorship scheme and doing little by way of quality assurance, until the **** hits the fan (which it is, big time).

As I have said before, it's a finite pot of cash and we have to prioritise where it's spent, regardless of which budget it supposedly comes from, hence why I find tram extension proposals to be insanity in the face of what is happening to our communities in Edinburgh.

The Council Tax should have been more equitably reformed years ago, alongside other key issues The SNP have not only failed to deliver independence ( an aim that many "supporters" saw as paramount, taking precedence over their avoidance of measures which might have been damaging to the wider cause), they have failed to protect communities.

Sadly, the mainstream alternatives are not really alternatives, Labour-Tory cheeks of the same scabby arse. I've voted for the SNP since Labour ****** it up under Kinnock, never have I felt more disillusioned by them than the past few years. They have had a mandate for change for many and didn't use it effectively enough.

[Jack]

A council tax freeze is the final nail in coffin when it comes to the chance of me voting SNP, a hideous, populist policy that will be devastating for the poorest in our society.

My local library used to run loads of great classes for parents and kids, the elderly etc. Vast majority have stopped now and library only opens 3 days a week. My daughter has been out of school multiple times because the funding isn't there to pay teachers, teaching assistants, catering staff etc etc in schools a fair wage, we had rubbish piling up in the streets because the money wasn't there to pay refuse workers a fair wage and the central government solution is to heap further pressure on those budgets by freezing council tax to try and buy votes because for some there is an inexplicable preference for £5 in your pocket paid for by £10 worth of cuts.

They can GTF.

While I don't agree with the policies, much for the reasons you've outlined as the great Rod Petrie once said to me "Be careful what you wish for".

The torys don't stand a chance so I'd imagine that Labour are the likely alternative to the SNP.

Copy and paste English policies into Scotland, even if they're not appropriate? Is Wales doing better than Scotland?

I can understand yours and others position, I'm party there myself, but the alternative doesn't look any better.

For the first time in a while I'll be voting for the least worst!

[Stairway 2 7]

Sarwar attacked the SNP in Holyrood last month on the cost of living impact of expected increases in Council Tax. Now that they have frozen CT, will he congratulate them on listening to his words? Or will he be a hypocrite and attack them for the CT freeze? I wonder.

Probably be a hypocrit as he's an erse. Labour being awful doesn't excuse the horrible decision by snp

[Stairway 2 7]

While I don't agree with the policies, much for the reasons you've outlined as the great Rod Petrie once said to me "Be careful what you wish for".

The torys don't stand a chance so I'd imagine that Labour are the likely alternative to the SNP.

Copy and paste English policies into Scotland, even if they're not appropriate? Is Wales doing better than Scotland?

I can understand yours and others position, I'm party there myself, but the alternative doesn't look any better.

For the first time in a while I'll be voting for the least worst!

I like the idea of none of the above but in reality that's pointless. I'll hold my nose and vote SNP as they are still best of the rest.

[grunt]

Labour in Scotland must be happy today

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8tnCr9WcAEPP4I?format=png&name=small

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F8tso5tXUAA8qy2?format=png&name=small

[Stairway 2 7]

Council tax freeze is not going down well STUC, the greens and COSLA have came out and critised

Shona Robinson says the decision was only 24 to 48 hours before the conference so it wasn't signed off by the cabinet. She said because of the timescale it meant councils and COSLA weren't informed before hand

[Ozyhibby]

Council tax freeze is not going down well STUC, the greens and COSLA have came out and critised

Shona Robinson says the decision was only 24 to 48 hours before the conference so it wasn't signed off by the cabinet. She said because of the timescale it meant councils and COSLA weren't informed before hand

It’s a flat out political response to not lose votes. Zero thought from any party has went into this on whether it’s the right thing to do. It’s about what gets the voters out. Labour judged it right in Rutherglen and the SNP is having to react.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

It’s a flat out political response to not lose votes. Zero thought from any party has went into this on whether it’s the right thing to do. It’s about what gets the voters out. Labour judged it right in Rutherglen and the SNP is having to react.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Voters including SNP voters want lower income tax, would that be justifiable too. Populist policies are popular, tories make a living out of them

https://archive.ph/flh8b

[marinello59]

Council tax freeze is not going down well STUC, the greens and COSLA have came out and critised

Shona Robinson says the decision was only 24 to 48 hours before the conference so it wasn't signed off by the cabinet. She said because of the timescale it meant councils and COSLA weren't informed before hand

It makes you wonder if any real thought was put in to this at all or it was just a case of ditch the principles now and worry about it later. I can only hope they are fully expecting to be forced in to a u turn after having had their headline.

[Ozyhibby]

Voters including SNP voters want lower income tax, would that be justifiable too. Populist policies are popular, tories make a living out of them

https://archive.ph/flh8b

I wouldn’t be surprised to see the bands move in line with the rUK in time for election but still keep the top rate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jones28]

Why does £5 less income result in £10 of cuts to services?

They’re robbing Peter to pay Paul for relatively little political credit.

Councils everywhere are out on their ***** and they desperately wed the extra funding.

[JimBHibees]

Council tax freeze is not going down well STUC, the greens and COSLA have came out and critised

Shona Robinson says the decision was only 24 to 48 hours before the conference so it wasn't signed off by the cabinet. She said because of the timescale it meant councils and COSLA weren't informed before hand

Genuinely don't know the answer but I thought it was up to councils to decide on council tax increases hence the reason there are different increases dependent on council. Assume snp government can override that?

[marinello59]

Genuinely don't know the answer but I thought it was up to councils to decide on council tax increases hence the reason there are different increases dependent on council. Assume snp government can override that?

It’s up to the councils to set the rate but what the Scottish Government will do if they defy them is cut their central funding meaning there will be no benefit in raising the rate. (They’d actually end up worse off.)
That’s democracy apparently.

[JimBHibees]

It’s up to the councils to set the rate but what the Scottish Government will do if they defy them is cut their central funding meaning there will be no benefit in raising the rate. (They’d actually end up worse off.)
That’s democracy apparently.

So cut their funding by the amount of increase? Seems a strange system to be honest. Also strange re council democracy that a party getting most seats can end up out of power if other parties tactically work together imo.

[J-C]

So cut their funding by the amount of increase? Seems a strange system to be honest. Also strange re council democracy that a party getting most seats can end up out of power if other parties tactically work together imo.

But did that party get an overall majority, having the most seats only works if it's more than the rest, if not then you have to form an alliance.

[Ozyhibby]

It’s up to the councils to set the rate but what the Scottish Government will do if they defy them is cut their central funding meaning there will be no benefit in raising the rate. (They’d actually end up worse off.)
That’s democracy apparently.

It’s probably the worst form of local govt in Europe. There is zero accountability. The way the UK is structured means it is failing us all. Every level of govt relies on grants from London. It doesn’t really matter what you elect locally. Whatever London decides is what you get.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

But did that party get an overall majority, having the most seats only works if it's more than the rest, if not then you have to form an alliance.

Agree. That’s a function of PR and should be welcomed.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

It’s up to the councils to set the rate but what the Scottish Government will do if they defy them is cut their central funding meaning there will be no benefit in raising the rate. (They’d actually end up worse off.)
That’s democracy apparently.

Yeah some councils have said they will go ahead with the rises. They are for the higher bands only. Its now going to be up to the SNP to punish them by cutting their funding in response. It's going to drag on and set up wars between government and councils

[marinello59]

It’s probably the worst form of local govt in Europe. There is zero accountability. The way the UK is structured means it is failing us all. Every level of govt relies on grants from London. It doesn’t really matter what you elect locally. Whatever London decides is what you get.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Cutting funding further by forcing councils to freeze the Council Tax is all on the Scottish Government though, their choice.

[Ozyhibby]

Cutting funding further by forcing councils to freeze the Council Tax is all on the Scottish Government though, their choice.

Voters choice though isn’t it? They have sent a clear message. Cut council tax or you are out. Can’t blame SG for listening. And any other party would do the same which is why Labour are backing this move 100%.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Cutting funding further by forcing councils to freeze the Council Tax is all on the Scottish Government though, their choice.
This seems to be a relevant article to this current discussion:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/oct/20/more-english-councils-face-bankruptcy-leaders-warn-as-deficits-reach-4bn


It stressed the crisis in local authority was not related to council type or political control and said the debate about council funding should not turn into a “political mud-slinging exercise”. It said it was wrong to assume that only “failing” councils would end up in financial difficulty.

[Paul1642]

Voters choice though isn’t it? They have sent a clear message. Cut council tax or you are out. Can’t blame SG for listening. And any other party would do the same which is why Labour are backing this move 100%.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

SNP plummeting in the polls and loosing the by election has very little, if anything to do with council tax.

[Stairway 2 7]

Voters choice though isn’t it? They have sent a clear message. Cut council tax or you are out. Can’t blame SG for listening. And any other party would do the same which is why Labour are backing this move 100%.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Eh. Where have the voters said they will vote anyone for this. They don't like higher taxes but have voted SNP in every election post raising them

The snp polls and membership collapsed from December last year, nothing to do with council tax

[Stairway 2 7]

This seems to be a relevant article to this current discussion:

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2023/oct/20/more-english-councils-face-bankruptcy-leaders-warn-as-deficits-reach-4bn

Snp and the Conservatives have shrunk council funding consistently for 12 years. The appalling council tax freezes has crippled councils and it effects the worst off disproportionately

[marinello59]

Voters choice though isn’t it? They have sent a clear message. Cut council tax or you are out. Can’t blame SG for listening. And any other party would do the same which is why Labour are backing this move 100%.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It’s the SNP’s choice , 100%.
Do you think it’s a good decision or a bad decision for the country and in particular the less well off?

[Ozyhibby]

It’s the SNP’s choice , 100%.
Do you think it’s a good decision or a bad decision for the country and in particular the less well off?

Bad decision, I’ve already said so. My problem is that it’s a decision that shouldn’t be able to be made. Local govt should be 100% be funded by local taxes.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

Eh. Where have the voters said they will vote anyone for this. They don't like higher taxes but have voted SNP in every election post raising them

The snp polls and membership collapsed from December last year, nothing to do with council tax

It was single biggest issue in recent by-election and Labour attacked the SNP mercilessly for raising everyones council tax. Labour won handsomely. If you don’t learn lessons from that then you have business being in politics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

It was single biggest issue in recent by-election and Labour attacked the SNP mercilessly for raising everyones council tax. Labour won handsomely. If you don’t learn lessons from that then you have business being in politics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not a chance it was the single biggest issue. In about 100 pre election tweets from Labour and Shanks Council tax is mentioned about 12 with dozens of mentions of change, fresh start, decline. Humza said criminality was mentioned a lot Ferrier and Murrell

If snp think this freeze will stable the ships in the next election they are complacent and in for a shock. We'll see in the next few polls but I'd assume its not in people's top 10 issues so won't change them

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/kieranpandrews/status/1715802188088263084?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

As predicted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/kieranpandrews/status/1715802188088263084?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

As predicted.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Another populist uturn. When Labour do it to get in its terrible when SNP do it they had no choice, have I got it right

[Ozyhibby]

Another populist uturn. When Labour do it to get in its terrible when SNP do it they had no choice, have I got it right

Depends who you are talking to I guess. I personally think we have the tax bands wrong in Scotland, if not the rates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[marinello59]

Depends who you are talking to I guess. I personally think we have the tax bands wrong in Scotland, if not the rates.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

This decision, if it’s made, wouldn’t be about the rights and wrongs though. It would be Yousaf in a panic trying to regain the middle ground he vacated and handed to Labour on a plate. Thankfully for the country and his party he won’t be in position after the next general election.

[JimBHibees]

This decision, if it’s made, wouldn’t be about the rights and wrongs though. It would be Yousaf in a panic trying to regain the middle ground he vacated and handed to Labour on a plate. Thankfully for the country and his party he won’t be in position after the next general election.

To be replaced by the London run Labour Party. Yippee can't wait

[marinello59]

To be replaced by the London run Labour Party. Yippee can't wait

The SNP will still be in power in Holyrood after the General Election and probably after the next election up here. Yousaf won't be First Minister though.

[Ozyhibby]

This decision, if it’s made, wouldn’t be about the rights and wrongs though. It would be Yousaf in a panic trying to regain the middle ground he vacated and handed to Labour on a plate. Thankfully for the country and his party he won’t be in position after the next general election.

It’s a fair assessment. You can’t leave the centre ground in politics and expect to win.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[greenlex]

I’m quite intrigued. I had an SNP flyer through the door today. It was basically a reply business card with a wee survey on it. The intriguing part is all it had on it to distinguish it was my first name which was personalised and a part postcode. No address or house number. How did it get to the correct person? I actually work in direct mail and find it quite Bizarre.

[lapsedhibee]

I’m quite intrigued. I had an SNP flyer through the door today. It was basically a reply business card with a wee survey on it. The intriguing part is all it had on it to distinguish it was my first name which was personalised and a part postcode. No address or house number. How did it get to the correct person? I actually work in direct mail and find it quite Bizarre.

The flyerer had your name and address on a separate bit of paper, from the electoral roll (or from SNP membership details)? :dunno:

[degenerated]

The flyerer had your name and address on a separate bit of paper, from the electoral roll (or from SNP membership details)? :dunno:It's nuts how much info political parties have on people. I sent a FOI request to lib dems and asked for any and all data they held on me and got a spreadsheet full of stuff about me from them.

[greenlex]

The flyerer had your name and address on a separate bit of paper, from the electoral roll (or from SNP membership details)? :dunno:

Assume it’s the electoral role as I’m not an SNP member.
Just my first name and part postcode. Bear in mind there are several houses in the street with the same postcode it must have been something like that but what a waste of time and energy. Just personalise it with name and address.

Edit. In fact it definitely the electoral role as it had my Sunday name on it.

[greenlex]

It's nuts how much info political parties have on people. I sent a FOI request to lib dems and asked for any and all data they held on me and got a spreadsheet full of stuff about me from them.

Under data protection laws you can tell them to stop sending you **** and have your details removed from their records.

[degenerated]

Under data protection laws you can tell them to stop sending you **** and have your details removed from their records.I did :greengrin I was just weird that they had so much on me even though Id never engaged with them., I've had a couple of doorstep run ins since though :hilarious

[marinello59]

I did :greengrin I was just weird that they had so much on me even though Id never engaged with them., I've had a couple of doorstep run ins since though :hilarious

They’re hiding in the bushes opposite your house. :greengrin

[degenerated]

They’re hiding in the bushes opposite your house. :greengrinIt wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. I had one of the councillors at my door the other week and noticed whilst he prattled on that cole-hamilton was going up the neighbours drive.
Was a good opportunity to shout over and point out that we all know he'd turn up for the opening of an envelope but is nowhere to be seen when there's real work needed done, or words to that effect :greengrin

[marinello59]

It wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. I had one of the councillors at my door the other week and noticed whilst he prattled on that cole-hamilton was going up the neighbours drive.
Was a good opportunity to shout over and point out that we all know he'd turn up for the opening of an envelope but is nowhere to be seen when there's real work needed done, or words to that effect :greengrin

:greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

Why oh why is it taking soooo loooong for the polis to complete their campervangate investigation? Shirley they won't be bringing charges/completing their efforts without bringing charges either in the run-up to a general election or in the immediate aftermath of a general election? The optics would be too bad, wouldn't they? :dunno:

[Stairway 2 7]

Why oh why is it taking soooo loooong for the polis to complete their campervangate investigation? Shirley they won't be bringing charges/completing their efforts without bringing charges either in the run-up to a general election or in the immediate aftermath of a general election? The optics would be too bad, wouldn't they? :dunno:
How long do similar large investigations take

[Kato]

How long do similar large investigations takeIs it a large investigation?

A sum of money and three people involved doesn't exactly sound labyrinthine.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

Is it a large investigation?

A sum of money and three people involved doesn't exactly sound labyrinthine.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Especially when everyone is co-operating and the company accounts have been made available. It really shouldn’t be a difficult investigation.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Is it a large investigation?

A sum of money and three people involved doesn't exactly sound labyrinthine.:agree:

Specially when it seemed the money hadn't gone missing, just been spent on other things ...?

[Stairway 2 7]

Is it a large investigation?

A sum of money and three people involved doesn't exactly sound labyrinthine.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Well in comparison a boy at work has been waiting a year and a half to be a witness at an assault trial. Meant to be a huge backlog at PF and police. Think money matters would take longer as specialists would have to go through everything

I've personally no idea though, probably some better placed on here

[grunt]

How long do similar large investigations take:greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

:greengrin

What's a large investigation Perry Mason. Accounts seems like more detail to analyse than the vast majority of cases I'd think.

Apparently the average it took pre covid in Scotland for an investigation to start and a charge being made is 323 days, so still quite months to go on that. Not sure if still a backlog and that will be further.

To answer the original question why is it taking so long, it's still well below the average just now

[greenginger]

How long do similar large investigations take

Watergate took several years . :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

What's a large investigation Perry Mason. Accounts seems like more detail to analyse than the vast majority of cases I'd think.

Apparently the average it took pre covid in Scotland for an investigation to start and a charge being made is 323 days, so still quite months to go on that. Not sure if still a backlog and that will be further.

To answer the original question why is it taking so long, it's still well below the average just now

Aren’t we already over the two year mark on this investigation?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

What's a large investigation Perry Mason. :greengrin

We don't know what the charge is. If - as discussed here - it's that money donated for one purpose has been spent on other things, then I'd expect any decent forensic accountant to take a matter of days to investigate. Maybe weeks, but not months and certainly not years. I could be wrong, of course.

This is simply a long running piece of political theatre. IMO.

[CropleyWasGod]

:greengrin

We don't know what the charge is. If - as discussed here - it's that money donated for one purpose has been spent on other things, then I'd expect any decent forensic accountant to take a matter of days to investigate. Maybe weeks, but not months and certainly not years. I could be wrong, of course.

This is simply a long running piece of political theatre. IMO.

Not sure that would be a criminal matter tbh. Civil case, perhaps, but can't see what laws might be broken.

The only thing I can imagine is the 3 amigos sitting together plotting a scheme whereby "we will tell them the money is for this, but it's actually for something else ....". That might be conspiracy to defraud, which is a very difficult thing to prove (hence the amount of time being taken?)

[lapsedhibee]

The only thing I can imagine is the 3 amigos sitting together plotting a scheme whereby "we will tell them the money is for this, but it's actually for something else ....". That might be conspiracy to defraud, which is a very difficult thing to prove (hence the amount of time being taken?)

Are the polis just waiting for a fourth person - the smoking amigo - to emerge as a witness? :dunno:

[CropleyWasGod]

Are the polis just waiting for a fourth person - the smoking amigo - to emerge as a witness? :dunno:

I'm currently re-reading All The President's Men.

I think we need a Deep Throat.


(insert your own punchline, within the restrictions of a family board....)

[Moulin Yarns]

Not sure that would be a criminal matter tbh. Civil case, perhaps, but can't see what laws might be broken.

The only thing I can imagine is the 3 amigos sitting together plotting a scheme whereby "we will tell them the money is for this, but it's actually for something else ....". That might be conspiracy to defraud, which is a very difficult thing to prove (hence the amount of time being taken?)

It's always going to take longer to find nothing than it is to find something 😉

[grunt]

Not sure that would be a criminal matter tbh. Civil case, perhaps, but can't see what laws might be broken. Indeed.

That might be conspiracy to defraud, which is a very difficult thing to prove (hence the amount of time being taken?)If Nicola has been involved in a conspiracy to defraud SNP members of £600k then I have seriously misjudged her.

[grunt]

It's always going to take longer to find nothing than it is to find something 😉This is a very good point.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/stvnews/status/1716691722149769370?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Well done to the SNP.[emoji122]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/scotnational/status/1716842481885528242?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

The replies to this tweet are horrific.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

The replies to this tweet are horrific.


Shirley that's some sort of automated twitter campaign against the SNP? I only counted one reasonable response out of dozens. :dunno:

[degenerated]

https://x.com/scotnational/status/1716842481885528242?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

The replies to this tweet are horrific.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkNot at all surprising though.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/stvnews/status/1716691722149769370?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Well done to the SNP.[emoji122]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
That's brilliant it's a very good policy. Tories numbers are awful. Probably the area a nation should be judged on more than any other, gdp ect.

[Ozyhibby]

From New Statesman.

There aren’t many advisers who make an obviously visible mark on the ministers and government they’re paid to help. For good or ill, depending on your starting point, Dominic Cummings would be one, Alastair Campbell another.

Kevin Pringle, who was the SNP’s director of communications from 2012-15 (and senior special adviser to Alex Salmond from 2007-12), looks to be one of those rare flowers. Since Pringle became Humza Yousaf’s official spokesman and strategic adviser in June, the First Minister has sharpened up his act, refocused his administration, and begun, as David Cameron once almost put it, to get rid of the crap.

I’ve known Pringle for nearly three decades, and though he has always been passionately committed to the independence cause and is a bit of a leftie himself, he is more pragmatic and hard-headed than most of those working in the government. Before returning to the SNP fold he spent nearly ten years working in the private sector for a public affairs firm, where he was often exposed to the challenges facing businesses across various sectors.

It is easy to detect the impact that Pringle has had since his arrival. Yousaf initially promised to be the continuity candidate following Nicola Sturgeon’s departure. This suggested he would pursue a social justice agenda, spend lavishly on government programmes and avoid falling out with any vested interest whose support might be needed in the event of another independence referendum, regardless of whether the public would be better served by confrontation.

But in recent months there has been little talk of, say, the gender recognition reform that was driven so hard by Sturgeon and previously supported passionately by her successor. The UK government’s decision to veto the Holyrood legislation is currently in front of the Court of Session, but Yousaf has been noticeably quiet about an issue that has divided his party and the country.

He has said explicitly that it is time to move on from the seemingly endless debates about independence and instead concentrate on those issues that most concern voters: the cost-of-living crisis, economic growth and public service reform. These are not the only signs of political movement.

During my recent interview with Yousaf, we shared a few interesting exchanges (I thought it telling that Pringle was the only adviser in the room with us). Some of the lines that struck me at the time still seem significant a couple of weeks on. On success and failure in government: “Let’s not beat around the bush, people are genuinely asking questions around our credibility on delivery.” On gender reform and broader debates about identity: “We have to accept that far too many people believe us to be a party of identity politics as opposed to delivering on the issues that matter to them.”

Content from our partners

[See also: The New Statesman’s left power list]

And in relation to his well-briefed plans to raise income tax rates, which are already higher for many Scots than those in the rest of the UK (with a top rate of 47p and a higher rate of 42p): “You’ve obviously got to be mindful about the behavioural impacts, and we are, and we’ve got to be mindful of what the UK government does – that could have an impact on what we do here. And you have to grow the economy, so we have greater tax revenue and great investment in our public services.”

He talked about a police officer who had visited his Dundee constituency office, “married to a nurse, really struggling, four-bedroom house, got a mortgage to pay, heating bills gone up, and despite their combined salaries, they are struggling. We’re really conscious of that when it comes to looking at taxation.”

When I raised the governing coalition with the left-wing Scottish Green Party, which many blame for some of the SNP’s current problems and which a sizeable group of nationalists would like to see junked, Yousaf made the point that, while he was currently content with the arrangement, the agreement between the two “will be under regular review”. “The Greens and us have our differences – on oil and gas, for example. If I ever thought it wasn’t in the party’s best interests then we’d take that decision to end the co-operation agreement.”

The words coming from Yousaf’s mouth were, I thought, pure Pringle. Continuity was (largely) out, and the new man had a fresh agenda. Not before time, one might say.

The Scottish Budget falls on 19 December and we’ll see then whether the hints I felt I was picking up about a rethink on future tax rises amount to anything. However, an early – if controversial – sign of intent came in the First Minister’s party conference speech in Aberdeen last week, when he announced a freeze on council tax. This amounts, in its way, to a notional tax cut, if one that will be borne by local authorities that are already struggling to fund their services after years of heavy-handed intervention by the devolved government. It’s easy to sit in Bute House and tell others to rein in their spending, while you continue to splash the cash and take the glory.

However, what appeared to be a carefully briefed story in the Sunday Times at the weekend suggested Yousaf could be about to go further and abandon his planned income tax rise “in an attempt to win back aspirational voters”. “If we can get to a position where we are not raising income tax then everyone would welcome that. I think that would be everyone’s aspiration,” a senior source told the newspaper.

It’s hardly insightful to point out that households in middle Scotland, like that of Yousaf’s police officer, are under intense financial pressure, but it is true nevertheless. There have been growing signs of public disgruntlement at a constantly rising tax burden on anyone earning above £28,000 a year, even if the money is being spent on anti-poverty programmes.

We’ll see what unfolds. And it will also be interesting to watch the response from Scotland’s powerful poverty caucus, which has continually lobbied for and supported the efforts of Sturgeon and now Yousaf to boost the incomes of the poorest. Much of the energy behind the SNP’s dominance over the past decade or so has come from the political left. How will it react to this change of emphasis?

If we are seeing a significant shift in tone and focus, what will replace the old agenda? Growing the economy is something everyone (apart from the Greens) understands to be in Scotland’s interests, but it is not easily achieved and there are deep-rooted cultural and policy problems that must be overcome if demonstrable progress is to be made. Similarly, saying you’re going to turn your attention to boosting mainstream public services is great, but again there’s no easy route to such an outcome. Unions and professional groups must at times be faced down, some brave innovations will be needed, and (even greater) public unpopularity risked, until any benefits can be seen.

So far, I’ve been pretty impressed by some of the rhetoric coming from Yousaf. I’d like to believe he will live up to it, but action is always harder than words. Pringle will just have to keep pushing.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

There have been growing signs of public disgruntlement at a constantly rising tax burden on anyone earning above £28,000 a year, even if the money is being spent on anti-poverty programmes.

Where can I see these growing signs? The only people I know who complain about the differential tax bands are people who don't like the SNP full stop and like to quote the bands in their 'argument' that the 'best' people in Scotland are continually leaving to go and live in England.

[Ozyhibby]

Where can I see these growing signs? The only people I know who complain about the differential tax bands are people who don't like the SNP full stop and like to quote the bands in their 'argument' that the 'best' people in Scotland are continually leaving to go and live in England.

I don’t think the rates are the problem, it’s the levels that the bands are set at that annoys people. And people very much consider their tax situation when voting.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Where can I see these growing signs? The only people I know who complain about the differential tax bands are people who don't like the SNP full stop and like to quote the bands in their 'argument' that the 'best' people in Scotland are continually leaving to go and live in England.

Most Scots and snp voters are against the higher tax but that is hardly surprising. SNP won landslides previously with higher tax so I doubt its that important an issue for many though

https://archive.ph/XXzlH
Majority of SNP voters reject Yousaf’s ‘progressive tax’
As party members gather for conference, poll shows hikes for middle and higher earners are deeply unpopular with core supporters

[grunt]

As party members gather for conference, poll shows hikes for middle and higher earners are deeply unpopular with core supporters
Again this is one where the question is so important. Asked, "are you happy to pay more tax?" most people will say no. Asked if you're happy that those who can afford it pay a little more to help those with none might receive a different response.

[Stairway 2 7]

Again this is one where the question is so important. Asked, "are you happy to pay more tax?" most people will say no. Asked if you're happy that those who can afford it pay a little more to help those with none might receive a different response.

If that was the case and it was popular they wouldn't have done the populist decision in freezing council tax. It would have meant bottom 3 bands not increasing in most areas and the money disproportionately going to those with less on average

[Ozyhibby]

If that was the case and it was popular they wouldn't have done the populist decision in freezing council tax. It would have meant bottom 3 bands not increasing in most areas and the money disproportionately going to those with less on average

People on the left often say that council tax should be replaced with a local income tax. That’s exactly what the SNP have been doing by stealth. It’s not proving that popular though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[marinello59]

People on the left often say that council tax should be replaced with a local income tax. That’s exactly what the SNP have been doing by stealth. It’s not proving that popular though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You will need to explain that one. They’re not doing anything remotely close to that.

[Ozyhibby]

You will need to explain that one. They’re not doing anything remotely close to that.

Are they not cutting council tax and paying for it through higher income tax?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[marinello59]

Are they not cutting council tax and paying for it through higher income tax?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are still going to have to explain how that is in any way a form of local income taxation.

[Ozyhibby]

You are still going to have to explain how that is in any way a form of local income taxation.

It’s not but the result is the same. Btw, I agree that local taxes should be raised locally from multiple sources the way national taxes are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

It’s not but the result is the same. Btw, I agree that local taxes should be raised locally from multiple sources the way national taxes are.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It is, if the SG are replacing the reduced CT with the proceeds of higher IT rates.

Are they doing that?

[wookie70]

People on the left often say that council tax should be replaced with a local income tax. That’s exactly what the SNP have been doing by stealth. It’s not proving that popular though.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not my take on it. I live in a split Villa. Both properties have essentially the same footprint. For some reason my house is a band above the one below. I only realised this when the SNP put the council tax up for my band but failed to do so for the band below ie my downstairs neighbour. At that time there was a senior nurse and a senior consultant living and their combined wage would have been more than triple our joint wage. They enjoyed a council tax freeze for the rest of the time they lived there. I actually spoke to Tommy Shepherd about it city my example and he never really put up a defence. He couldn't really as abolishing council tax and replacing it with a progressive tax was the SNP policy at the time. I can't understand why teh SNP after so many years in government cannot come up with a progressive way for collecting local income tax.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/scotnational/status/1717521160433217989?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Really crap line of questioning but it actually helps HY by making him look like a FM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk