SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Hibrandenburg]

Still can't smell any cordite.

[marinello59]

The reality of the mismanagement of our nationalised ferry service. And still nobody takes responsibility. Shambles.

26665

[Kato]

This is what the accounts say:-

Referendum Appeal

By 31 December 2021, a total of £740,822 had been raised through the independence related
appeals. These donations are also included in – and have been reconciled with – the total
amount for donations included in Party accounts from 2017 to 2021. Up until 31 December 2021
a total of £253,335 of expenditure had been applied against this income. The balance remains
“earmarked” for independence related campaigning.

Of course, the SNP is the party of independence and, as such, every action we take – directly or
indirectly – is in support of winning independence. However, we continue to take a very strict
approach to ensuring that this income supports expenditure directly related to the campaign
for independence. We will ensure that an amount equivalent to the sums raised from these
appeals will go directly to our work to secure a referendum and win independence.

The £253k isn't broken down any further. However, there is an amount of £1.6m in 2021 for "Campaigning Costs", which seems the best home for that £253k.It's like a Stonybridge sketch written by Franz Kafka.

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[He's here!]

https://wingsoverscotland.com/progress-to-nowhere/#more-136982

Bearing in mind this is the website which sowed the seeds of the Murrells' downfall it'll be interesting to see if this leads anywhere.

[Glory Lurker]

https://wingsoverscotland.com/progress-to-nowhere/#more-136982

Bearing in mind this is the website which sowed the seeds of the Murrells' downfall it'll be interesting to see if this leads anywhere.

Has that website done anything else in the last 13 years that you consider of note?

I've got the advantage of having always thought the boy was a rocket. What about you? He's become credible in the last few years? And how? You're dead against independence.

[marinello59]

https://wingsoverscotland.com/progress-to-nowhere/#more-136982

Bearing in mind this is the website which sowed the seeds of the Murrells' downfall it'll be interesting to see if this leads anywhere.

He takes the credit but the Murrells did that themselves. :greengrin

The bad Rev has never been a proper journalist as so many used to claim, he’s a blogger who found favour by telling a lot of people what they wanted to hear. The only difference between now and his heyday is he is preaching to a different group. A nasty piece of work who is best ignored.

[Berwickhibby]

He takes the credit but the Murrells did that themselves. :greengrin

The bad Rev has never been a proper journalist as so many used to claim, he’s a blogger who found favour by telling a lot of people what they wanted to hear. The only difference between now and his heyday is he is preaching to a different group. A nasty piece of work who is best ignored.

Said for years he was a con man, how much did he fleece the gullible with his go fund me pages 🙄

[weecounty hibby]

Said for years he was a con man, how much did he fleece the gullible with his go fund me pages 🙄

Yip, happy to say that I have thought he was a total prick from day 1. Never gave him a penny. Really nasty bigot and anyone from either side quoting him need to give themselves a shake. All of a sudden he is the go to for some because of his hatred of NS and the SNP. And it is hatred, mostly borne out of his bigoted views.

Edit. Just realised we have agreed on something!!! Hope that's a good omen for today's football😀😀😀

[He's here!]

He takes the credit but the Murrells did that themselves. :greengrin

The bad Rev has never been a proper journalist as so many used to claim, he’s a blogger who found favour by telling a lot of people what they wanted to hear. The only difference between now and his heyday is he is preaching to a different group. A nasty piece of work who is best ignored.

I'm sure the SNP hierarchy would have liked him ignored. If he had been Murrell would quite likely still be in post.

What constitutes a 'proper journalist' in an era where 'influencers' and bloggers carry more clout than the mainstream media? Many among the independence movement used to pretty much set their watches around Wings.

He may well be a nasty piece of work but Campbell's ability to get under the skin of those with influence and to dig deeper into stories than 'proper journalists' dare to do is reflected by the fact that issues which are initially laughed off end up dominating the front pages for weeks. He was writing not only about the 'ringfenced' 600k and the lies around membership numbers but also the dangers inherent in forging ahead with the GRR years before the established media realised the collapse of Sturgeonism was at hand.

Bearing in mind the exhaustive research which goes into much of what he publishes he clearly has a contacts book to be envied by many and the ear of certain people at the heart of the SG/SNP.

Whatever one's political allegiance (and I imagine he would swing full square back behind independence were a hierarchy he approved of put in place) he remains, I'd say, someone to ignore at your peril and as I say it will be interesting to see if his latest posting re Progress Scotland gains any traction.

[He's here!]

https://archive.ph/2023.04.14-153224/https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/viewpoint/23453647.kevin-mckenna-interviews-mandy-rhodes-my-family-feared-me/

Interesting interview with Mandy Rhodes. Patrick Harvie features as his usual lovely self.

[He's here!]

The reality of the mismanagement of our nationalised ferry service. And still nobody takes responsibility. Shambles.

26665

Yousaf's inertia around this is bewildering.

[Kato]

I'm sure the SNP hierarchy would have liked him ignored. If he had been Murrell would quite likely still be in post.

What constitutes a 'proper journalist' in an era where 'influencers' and bloggers carry more clout than the mainstream media? Many among the independence movement used to pretty much set their watches around Wings.

He may well be a nasty piece of work but Campbell's ability to get under the skin of those with influence and to dig deeper into stories than 'proper journalists' dare to do is reflected by the fact that issues which are initially laughed off end up dominating the front pages for weeks. He was writing not only about the 'ringfenced' 600k and the lies around membership numbers but also the dangers inherent in forging ahead with the GRR years before the established media realised the collapse of Sturgeonism was at hand.

Bearing in mind the exhaustive research which goes into much of what he publishes he clearly has a contacts book to be envied by many and the ear of certain people at the heart of the SG/SNP.

Whatever one's political allegiance (and I imagine he would swing full square back behind independence were a hierarchy he approved of put in place) he remains, I'd say, someone to ignore at your peril and as I say it will be interesting to see if his latest posting re Progress Scotland gains any traction."My enemy's enemy is my friend", you mean.

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[grunt]

Really nasty bigot and anyone from either side quoting him need to give themselves a shake.Agreed.


He may well be a nasty piece of work but ...There you go.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/calumam/status/1647164812185710592?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Berwickhibby]

Yip, happy to say that I have thought he was a total prick from day 1. Never gave him a penny. Really nasty bigot and anyone from either side quoting him need to give themselves a shake. All of a sudden he is the go to for some because of his hatred of NS and the SNP. And it is hatred, mostly borne out of his bigoted views.

Edit. Just realised we have agreed on something!!! Hope that's a good omen for today's football😀😀😀

Gonna have to agree with you more often 🇳🇬🇳🇬🇳🇬

[weecounty hibby]

Gonna have to agree with you more often 🇳🇬🇳🇬🇳🇬
👍👍👍 Good to know that you are open to independence now 😀😀😀

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65285660

Ministry of Defence approached for help to alleviate ferries crisis.

Unfortunately the SG's £9 million hire of a stand-in catamaran has been held up:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65286224

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-65285660

Ministry of Defence approached for help to alleviate ferries crisis.

Unfortunately the SG's £9 million hire of a stand-in catamaran has been held up:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65286224

Isn’t that Highland council rather than Calmac?


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[He's here!]

Isn’t that Highland council rather than Calmac?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep, separate issues.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65277808

One step forward.


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65277808

One step forward.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They have spent a year silencing anyone that wanted to look under the iron curtain, they will then review themselves after being caught. Damage is done their should be multiple people resigning or getting their jotters. Continuity Humza really has to sack people rather than going down the same path politically like he seems to be. The ship is sinking and he's saying let's bash on the same

[Ozyhibby]

They have spent a year silencing anyone that wanted to look under the iron curtain, they will then review themselves after being caught. Damage is done their should be multiple people resigning or getting their jotters. Continuity Humza really has to sack people rather than going down the same path politically like he seems to be. The ship is sinking and he's saying let's bash on the same

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230415/f487b01cfdbd098789aee74c8376d0d9.jpg
External review but I agree that there should already be people suspended at the very least.


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230415/f487b01cfdbd098789aee74c8376d0d9.jpg
External review but I agree that there should already be people suspended at the very least.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
External review that comes to them to do what the wish with. They won't get away with blaming everything on Murrell/Sturgeon the same core are very much in charge. They had a chance to change and move on. Unfortunately the opposition are going to run with this the next year and it really shouldn't be news as its unimportant in the grand scheme of things

[grunt]

External review but I agree that there should already be people suspended at the very least.

Suspended for what? And who should be suspended?

[Stairway 2 7]

Suspended for what? And who should be suspended?

Murrell has been arrested and not even suspended like other SNP staff have been post being charged. Murrell wasn't the only one in charge it's a huge company who else was involved. Who would have been involved with the finances at the time ring fenced money is accused of being spent. All should be suspended and away from the evidence, it's not saying there is any guilt it's good practice. Who was near buying rather than renting a 100k motor home that was never used, when the company needed 100k loan to prop its finances.

[grunt]

Murrell has been arrested and not even suspended like other SNP staff have been post being charged. Murrell wasn't the only one in charge it's a huge company who else was involved. Who would have been involved with the finances at the time ring fenced money is accused of being spent. All should be suspended and away from the evidence, it's not saying there is any guilt it's good practice. Who was near buying rather than renting a 100k motor home that was never used, when the company needed 100k loan to prop its finances.
Well I'm convinced. (Just joking).

[Ozyhibby]

Suspended for what? And who should be suspended?

There is def grounds for suspending Murrell. That much is obvious but there will be others that are known about. I doubt this is anything illegal but it does seem to fall well short of good governance. The fact that info was withheld from the NEC and the leadership candidates means there were serious problems behind the scenes.
If Yousaf wants people to believe he has what it takes he should be sorting these things out now.
People can be suspended now pending the review.
He needs to act quickly. There is a narrative being built around him that he doesn’t know what he’s doing. He needs to change that narrative quickly.


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[grunt]

The fact that info was withheld from the NEC and the leadership candidates means there were serious problems behind the scenes.
What info was "withheld" and what evidence do you have to support that charge?

[Stairway 2 7]

What info was "withheld" and what evidence do you have to support that charge?

Have you not been following, much of that is in this thread tbf. Start with humzas interviews. He's for some unknown reason kept the story going by releasing more nuggets each day.

[grunt]

Have you not been following, much of that is in this thread tbf. Start with humzas interviews. He's for some unknown reason kept the story going by releasing more nuggets each day.Just because Yousaf didn't know something, doesn't mean that the info was necessarily withheld.

[Skol]

Just because Yousaf didn't know something, doesn't mean that the info was necessarily withheld.

Do you believe in fairies as well ?

[He's here!]

What info was "withheld" and what evidence do you have to support that charge?

You think Murrell released the (previously lied about) party membership figures willingly?

[Keith_M]

So this is basically the 'ring fenced' issue we discussed quite a while back?

If you say you've 'ring fenced' money, then you can't just spend it and then say you're going to put it back afterwards, which appears to be what they planned to do. In no way can that possibly be described as money that is 'ring fenced'.

I'm actually a bit confused, though, as to what illegality has actually occurred, and also look forward to hearing who it was that raised the issue to the PF's office and what the actual complaint was.

However, I do think the resignation of Murrell is the correct outcome.

[Stairway 2 7]

Just because Yousaf didn't know something, doesn't mean that the info was necessarily withheld.

Members of the NEC said the same, multiple people and emails show the NEC were shut down when asking about the finances. The treasurer resigned as he wasn't allowed the information on finances he needed. Just about everyone is saying they didn't know that member numbers had plummeted, the same for auditors quiting. A bizarre secrecy. Who knew all these facts Just Murrell, that doesn't seem likely

[Stairway 2 7]

So this is basically the 'ring fenced' issue we discussed quite a while back?

If you say you've 'ring fenced' money, then you can't just spend it and then say you're going to put it back afterwards, which appears to be what they planned to do. In no way can that possibly be described as money that is 'ring fenced'.

I'm actually a bit confused, though, as to what illegality has actually occurred, and also look forward to hearing who it was that raised the issue to the PF's office and what the actual complaint was.

However, I do think the resignation of Murrell is the correct outcome.

I'm not sure on the law is it false advertising. If Edinburgh zoo said we are raising 500k to keep the pandas say. Instead they just spent it on general funds and staff wages ect is that fraud. Some would be happy for the snp to spend it as they like, others only would have wanted it spent on independence campaigning. So if it went to general funds that's could be anything from wages to GRR legal advice.

[Stairway 2 7]

On the subject

https://archive.ph/Y5zvv

SNP running out of cash after member exodus, warns treasurer

The SNP is running out of cash following an exodus of 30,000 members and the unexpected legal costs linked to the continuing police investigation into the party’s funding, its ruling council has been told.
Colin Beattie, the SNP treasurer, told the national executive committee (NEC) that the party was “having difficulty in balancing the books due to the reduction in membership and donors” and that fighting a potential by-election in Rutherglen & Hamilton West would “put the party under pressure”.

[marinello59]

Just because Yousaf didn't know something, doesn't mean that the info was necessarily withheld.

So he is just wasn’t listening? :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

I wouldn’t worry too much about the party running out of money. They could raise £500k this week if they had to. In fact, that’s what got them in this bother.[emoji6][emoji23]


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[Keith_M]

I'm not sure on the law is it false advertising. If Edinburgh zoo said we are raising 500k to keep the pandas say. Instead they just spent it on general funds and staff wages ect is that fraud. Some would be happy for the snp to spend it as they like, others only would have wanted it spent on independence campaigning. So if it went to general funds that's could be anything from wages to GRR legal advice.


That's a possibility, yeah.

[greenlex]

I'm not sure on the law is it false advertising. If Edinburgh zoo said we are raising 500k to keep the pandas say. Instead they just spent it on general funds and staff wages ect is that fraud. Some would be happy for the snp to spend it as they like, others only would have wanted it spent on independence campaigning. So if it went to general funds that's could be anything from wages to GRR legal advice.
The whole point of the SNP is the pursuit of independence. It could be argued albeit tenuously that however it was spent on the party it’s in that pursuit. Whether it was good use in that pursuit should down to the members of the party.

[Stairway 2 7]

The whole point of the SNP is the pursuit of independence. It could be argued albeit tenuously that however it was spent on the party it’s in that pursuit. Whether it was good use in that pursuit should down to the members of the party.

But I gave an example of spending on say legal advice on the gender reform bill or bottle return scheme. That can't be said to be anything about independence. SNP are more than independence they are the establishment in Scotland. I personally vote for them only due to independence and I fear many in the party aren't driven by that. If I had put money into the campaign I'd be fuming if it was spent on other things like a campervan or wages for careering politicians.

[grunt]

If I had put money into the campaign I'd be fuming if it was spent on other things like a campervan or wages for careering politicians.You should have mentioned this earlier! If we're to judge the guilt or otherwise of the SNP based on how you personally would react, you should make your feelings known sooner, it would save a lot of time. Forget the debate about whether they've actually done anything wrong, clearly if what they've done has upset you then they're guilty as charged. (Whatever they're charged with).

[grunt]

The whole point of the SNP is the pursuit of independence. It could be argued albeit tenuously that however it was spent on the party it’s in that pursuit. Whether it was good use in that pursuit should down to the members of the party.Funny you should say that, as this is what it says in the SNP accounts.

[greenlex]

But I gave an example of spending on say legal advice on the gender reform bill or bottle return scheme. That can't be said to be anything about independence. SNP are more than independence they are the establishment in Scotland. I personally vote for them only due to independence and I fear many in the party aren't driven by that. If I had put money into the campaign I'd be fuming if it was spent on other things like a campervan or wages for careering politicians.
Me too almost exactly. I’m playing devils advocate. I say almost exactly as IMO challenging the Westminster intervention is an independence win/win. Win the challenge it cements and underscores devolution on the independence journey. Lose it and it only shows why independence is the only way to govern ourselves showing devolution up as the crock o **** it is. A democratically elected multi party vote being shut down by a one party government we didn’t vote for and haven’t for many many years.

[Stairway 2 7]

You should have mentioned this earlier! If we're to judge the guilt or otherwise of the SNP based on how you personally would react, you should make your feelings known sooner, it would save a lot of time. Forget the debate about whether they've actually done anything wrong, clearly if what they've done has upset you then they're guilty as charged. (Whatever they're charged with).

Snidey comment. Of course my opinion doesn't matter but its a message board of opinions, don't be shocked when you read an opinion. There was multiple posts with accusations previous to this one but you just replied like comical Ali, all is fine nothing to see here

[degenerated]

But I gave an example of spending on say legal advice on the gender reform bill or bottle return scheme. That can't be said to be anything about independence. SNP are more than independence they are the establishment in Scotland. I personally vote for them only due to independence and I fear many in the party aren't driven by that. If I had put money into the campaign I'd be fuming if it was spent on other things like a campervan or wages for careering politicians.I'd be very surprised if the Scottish government paid for legal advice on bills passed in parliament with monies from the SNP bank account.

[Skol]

Was it not the case though that the fund raising material said the money would be ring fenced for use in an Indy 2 campaign. That has not yet taken place.

I cannot believe people are still trying to say that this was all fine and don’t worry, we will spend the. Ones when we raise it again.

Criminal? I doubt it

However it’s misleading at best.

[Stairway 2 7]

Me too almost exactly. I’m playing devils advocate. I say almost exactly as IMO challenging the Westminster intervention is an independence win/win. Win the challenge it cements and underscores devolution on the independence journey. Lose it and it only shows why independence is the only way to govern ourselves showing devolution up as the crock o **** it is. A democratically elected multi party vote being shut down by a one party government we didn’t vote for and haven’t for many many years.

But that is ignoring the fact that the vast majority don't want them to go to court including a majority of independence voters. People can argue they think GRR is morally right if they want but no way can they say its advancing independence. Work on the bottle return scheme or GRR were just examples. I'm not sure if it is fraud or not buy surely every penny should have been directly spent on independence campaigning and with clear evidence

[greenlex]

Was it not the case though that the fund raising material said the money would be ring fenced for use in an Indy 2 campaign. That has not yet taken place.

I cannot believe people are still trying to say that this was all fine and don’t worry, we will spend the. Ones when we raise it again.

Criminal? I doubt it

However it’s misleading at best.
Earmarked rather than ringfenced I think. A subtle difference however semantic.

[Skol]

Earmarked rather than ringfenced I think. A subtle difference however semantic.

I believe The accounts said earmarked the fund raising material said ring fenced.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'd be very surprised if the Scottish government paid for legal advice on bills passed in parliament with monies from the SNP bank account.

It was a crude example, but wages would have been spent on it. The point is SNP are more than independence they focus on many issues from climate, economy, culture ect ect.

This should have been ring fenced, perhaps it will show it was

[RyeSloan]

I believe The accounts said earmarked the fund raising material said ring fenced.

https://deanmthomson.substack.com/p/wheres-the-money

[Stairway 2 7]

Sunday mail with more. If its footage I'm not sure how Sturgeon can back away from saying accounts never been stronger

https://mobile.twitter.com/johncferguson/status/1647367842268839937


John Ferguson
@johncferguson
💥Police passed emails claiming Sturgeon blocked finance scrutiny
💥Footage of former FM angrily telling NEC accounts ‘never been stronger’ and not to talk about them - weeks before fraud probe launched
💥Jewellery purchases being investigated
💥Portuguese villa revealed

[grunt]

[emoji95]Jewellery purchases being investigated
[emoji95]Portuguese villa revealed

What bull**** is this? Are they implying that Sturgeon bought a holiday villa with money stolen from the SNP?

The press in this country are out of control.

[Stairway 2 7]

Jackie Bailey says Humza must suspend NS after it's emerged she shut scrutiny of SNP finances. Big call for Humza he's been fawning for 3 months over the Murrells but was less so last week saying it would have been helpful if NS had told him about accountants quiting

[Stairway 2 7]

What bull**** is this? Are they implying that Sturgeon bought a holiday villa with money stolen from the SNP?

The press in this country are out of control.

Any comment on the first two bullet points the ones that are obviously huge news or just the second two

[Skol]

What is clear is that money was raised for one purpose and used for another.

Some people want to believe the change in language being used to explain it away.

It would be easier just to accept what happened was wrong.

I do see some people have come round to this way of thinking but others still follow the party line

[Stairway 2 7]

Just watched the video Sturgeon says the finances have never been stronger due to membership numbers. Also says members have to be careful when suggesting there are problems. She was either lying to the NEC or the party was lying to her. She also won't be happy that someone in the NEC has screenshotted a private meeting and chucked her under the bus by giving it to the press

[Jack]

It was a crude example, but wages would have been spent on it. The point is SNP are more than independence they focus on many issues from climate, economy, culture ect ect.

This should have been ring fenced, perhaps it will show it was

Sounds like you're confusing the SNP with the Scottish Government.

Having worked for many years in the Scottish Government I can see no reason why the SNP would need to spend money on anything like that.

Political parties come up with policies formed on what their manifesto said. Basically ideas and they don't cost much. It then becomes government business and the government pays to get it done.

[Stairway 2 7]

Sounds like you're confusing the SNP with the Scottish Government.

Having worked for many years in the Scottish Government I can see no reason why the SNP would need to spend money on anything like that.

Political parties come up with policies formed on what their manifesto said. Basically ideas and they don't cost much. It then becomes government business and the government pays to get it done.
Every hour a SNP staff member works on any of those issues money is spent through wages. I'm guessing wages is the biggest outgoing. Look at the SNPs social media this year how much of it is actually about independence. That's their perogative of course

[grunt]

Just watched the video Sturgeon says the finances have never been stronger due to membership numbers. Also says members have to be careful when suggesting there are problems. She was either lying to the NEC or the party was lying to her. She also won't be happy that someone in the NEC has screenshotted a private meeting and chucked her under the bus by giving it to the pressMA on another thread talks of the danger of taking things out of context. Without having seen the video, I expect this is what's happening here. Plus she'd be right to be angry about someone recording a private meeting - it's an enormous betrayal of trust. Unfortunately with the politics and press the way things are now, this is the new normal. The country is ****ed.

I thought this was all the subject of a CPS investigation. So how are these things being played out on the front pages o the press? Anyone who thinks this is the proper way to conduct an investigation needs to think again.

[grunt]

Every hour a SNP staff member works on any of those issues money is spent through wages. I'm guessing wages is the biggest outgoing. Look at the SNPs social media this year how much of it is actually about independence. That's their perogative of course
Are you complaining about how the SNP spends the party's money? I'm unclear about what is upsetting you here.

[Hibrandenburg]

What bull**** is this? Are they implying that Sturgeon bought a holiday villa with money stolen from the SNP?

The press in this country are out of control.

Quite the opposite, they are well under control.

[Stairway 2 7]

Are you complaining about how the SNP spends the party's money? I'm unclear about what is upsetting you here.

I'm not complaining I'm saying you can see how ring fenced money can be spent on other things. Is that a crime I have no idea.

There has clearly been mismanagement and some of the branch davidians are having aneurisms as dear leader is coming undone. I'm just annoyed that this shambles will put back independence for years, along with voting in the continuity candidate who is going down the same useless path

[Smartie]

Am I the only one that thinks at this stage that NOTHING is clear?

[Kato]

Am I the only be that thinks at this stage that NOTHING is clear?We keep being told "clearly" that stuff has happened, though.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[marinello59]

I'm not complaining I'm saying you can see how ring fenced money can be spent on other things. Is that a crime I have no idea.

There has clearly been mismanagement and some of the branch davidians are having aneurisms as dear leader is coming undone. I'm just annoyed that this shambles will put back independence for years, along with voting in the continuity candidate who is going down the same useless path

That’s where I am. Sturgeon’s legacy is to see the Indy dream dead for at least a decade. It’s hard to believe that only a matter of weeks ago we were looking at a special conference to drive things forward.

[Stairway 2 7]

We keep being told "clearly" that stuff has happened, though.

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Stuff has undoubtedly happened, I'm not talking about any of the legal stuff. The treasurer quit as wasn't allowed to look at the books. The new treasurer says snp is running out of cash and legal fees and by election will push them. The auditors quit 8 months ago, NEC members say they weren't informed, they can't find an auditor yet close to the deadline. Sturgeon told the NEC that finances were good. They needed a 100k loan whilst buying a 100k campervan that sat outside the presidents mums house for 2 years, Humza said he should have been told about van.

That's just stuff that is known and is ignoring the whole legal criminal angle

[He's here!]

Sunday mail with more. If its footage I'm not sure how Sturgeon can back away from saying accounts never been stronger

https://mobile.twitter.com/johncferguson/status/1647367842268839937


John Ferguson
@johncferguson
💥Police passed emails claiming Sturgeon blocked finance scrutiny
💥Footage of former FM angrily telling NEC accounts ‘never been stronger’ and not to talk about them - weeks before fraud probe launched
💥Jewellery purchases being investigated
💥Portuguese villa revealed

Whatever all that means, it's certainly another cracking Sunday of front pages for the SNP:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtydTgLWYAAF0vJ?format=jpg&name=medium

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtydTgLWIAAjLRX?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtydTgJXwAEuFgw?format=jpg&name=medium

[He's here!]

Scotland’s ferry network is sinking, and taking the SNP with it | The Spectator (https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/scotlands-ferry-network-is-sinking-and-taking-the-snp-with-it/)

"If the SNP are booted out of western islands, it will be a well-deserved comeuppance for the party’s complete disregard for Scotland’s islanders. The ferries fiasco is the scandal that should have brought down the SNP long before we got to police raids and seizing a luxury campervan."

[Hibrandenburg]

Am I the only one that thinks at this stage that NOTHING is clear?

The only thing that is clear is that the speculation around anything SNP is like a circus that arrives in town promising a lion taming show but once you've bought your ticket it turns out to be a flea circus.

[marinello59]

Scotland’s ferry network is sinking, and taking the SNP with it | The Spectator (https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/scotlands-ferry-network-is-sinking-and-taking-the-snp-with-it/)

"If the SNP are booted out of western islands, it will be a well-deserved comeuppance for the party’s complete disregard for Scotland’s islanders. The ferries fiasco is the scandal that should have brought down the SNP long before we got to police raids and seizing a luxury campervan."

I’m surprised that Blackford wanting to call in the military to sort out the SNP Government’s mess hasn’t attracted more comment. The scandal is not that we failed to deliver two new ferries, it is that we have let our Islanders down so badly by not making alternative plans. And still nobody takes responsibility.

[Ozyhibby]

I’m surprised that Blackford wanting to call in the military to sort out the SNP Government’s mess hasn’t attracted more comment. The scandal is not that we failed to deliver two new ferries, it is that we have let our Islanders down so badly by not making alternative plans. And still nobody takes responsibility.

That ferry is not run by the SG. It’s run by Highland Council. And it was them who asked Blackford to help them ask for military assistance. Well done to Blackford for jumping in to provide assistance.


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[marinello59]

That ferry is not run by the SG. It’s run by Highland Council. And it was them who asked Blackford to help them ask for military assistance. Well done to Blackford for jumping in to provide assistance.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You are right. It does however form part of the needless disruption to people’s lives on our islands and more far flung communities.
This particular shambles is down to the SNP / Independent controlled Highland Council.

[Kato]

Whatever all that means, it's certainly another cracking Sunday of front pages for the SNP:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtydTgLWYAAF0vJ?format=jpg&name=medium

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtydTgLWIAAjLRX?format=jpg&name=large

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtydTgJXwAEuFgw?format=jpg&name=mediumAfter all those years of those papers giving nothing but positive front pages to the SNP, it's came to this.

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[Stairway 2 7]

It's absolutely ridiculous that it's being emphasised that the British army are helping. **** off its equally our Scottish army and 10% of it will be ours post independence. Sometimes the services help out councils when needed ie bins. That's not excusing the poor service but the uk isn't helping, we are helping ourselves using our resources

[grunt]

It's as clear as mud. And there's a lot of mud being thrown round at the moment.

When it's pointed out that the SNP is not actually responsible for day to day ferry operations, there's an immediate switch to blame the SNP controlled Highland Council. Yet when you look at the political composition of Highland Council you find that, yes, the SNP are the largest party, but it's a minority administration. They have 22 councillors out of 74. Some people just want to blame the SNP for everything.

https://www.highland.gov.uk/councillors/party

[Stairway 2 7]

It's as clear as mud. And there's a lot of mud being thrown round at the moment.

When it's pointed out that the SNP is not actually responsible for day to day ferry operations, there's an immediate switch to blame the SNP controlled Highland Council. Yet when you look at the political composition of Highland Council you find that, yes, the SNP are the largest party, but it's a minority administration. They have 22 councillors out of 74. Some people just want to blame the SNP for everything.

https://www.highland.gov.uk/councillors/party

Who's budget was it?

[grunt]

I’m surprised that Blackford wanting to call in the military to sort out the SNP Government’s mess hasn’t attracted more comment. The scandal is not that we failed to deliver two new ferries, it is that we have let our Islanders down so badly by not making alternative plans. And still nobody takes responsibility.
I'm sure I recall Sturgeon taking responsibility for the ferries contract.

But these issues are seldom clear cut. Why do we have failing ferry services? Could it be that a complete lack of investment in our lifeline ferry services by previous administrations might have some impact on the current situation? Labour were in power in the SG from 1999 to 2007. Let's see how many ferries were built in that period ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtxHmqtXwAMP2JL?format=jpg&name=medium

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm sure I recall Sturgeon taking responsibility for the ferries contract.

But these issues are seldom clear cut. Why do we have failing ferry services? Could it be that a complete lack of investment in our lifeline ferry services by previous administrations might have some impact on the current situation? Labour were in power in the SG from 1999 to 2007. Let's see how many ferries were built in that period ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtxHmqtXwAMP2JL?format=jpg&name=medium

Who ran calmac before devolution?

[marinello59]

It's as clear as mud. And there's a lot of mud being thrown round at the moment.

When it's pointed out that the SNP is not actually responsible for day to day ferry operations, there's an immediate switch to blame the SNP controlled Highland Council. Yet when you look at the political composition of Highland Council you find that, yes, the SNP are the largest party, but it's a minority administration. They have 22 councillors out of 74. Some people just want to blame the SNP for everything.

https://www.highland.gov.uk/councillors/party

Some people want to absolve the SNP of blame for anything. :greengrin

[grunt]

Some people want to absolve the SNP of blame for anything. :greengrinHa, very good. :wink: I'm not saying they're blameless, just that these things are seldom as simple as we sometimes like to think.

[grunt]

Who ran calmac before devolution?No idea.

[grunt]

Who's budget was it?Your question is unclear.

[Stairway 2 7]

Your question is unclear.

Which parties council budget is it. I've checked it's snp's as with previous years. Lots of the independents vote with them

[Moulin Yarns]

No idea.

The secretary of state for Scotland. Calmac were nationalised in the 1940s.

[He's here!]

Some people want to absolve the SNP of blame for anything. :greengrin

It's certainly unusual to see the likes of Blackford lauding the broad shoulders of the union ;-)

[Kato]

Some people want to absolve the SNP of blame for anything. :greengrinDoes context absolve blame?



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[marinello59]

Ha, very good. :wink: I'm not saying they're blameless, just that these things are seldom as simple as we sometimes like to think.

And I agree. :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

Does context absolve blame?



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Depends what the context in the answer could be yes or no, in this instance no

[Kato]

Depends what the context in the answer could be yes or no, in this instance noSo the SNP and previous partys in charge are to blame, not just the SNP?

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[marinello59]

So the SNP and previous partys in charge are to blame, not just the SNP?

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Given that the SNP have been in power since 2007 it would be stretching it a bit to błame previous administrations for the unprecedented mess we have now.
I keep saying it but the people whose lives are being negatively impacted by this are all but forgotten when this is discussed with more focus being put on protecting politicians.

[Kato]

Given that the SNP have been in power since 2007 it would be stretching it a bit to błame previous administrations for the unprecedented mess we have now.
I keep saying it but the people whose lives are being negatively impacted by this are all but forgotten when this is discussed with more focus being put on protecting politicians.Have they been in charge since 2007 or has some of that time been coalitions?

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[Stairway 2 7]

So the SNP and previous partys in charge are to blame, not just the SNP?

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Ha ffs they have been in power for 16 years. But even if using that graph Labour built 1 but 3 had newly been built in the 5 years before. Then 2 in 16 years of snp and one that's a disaster still being built

[marinello59]

Have they been in charge since 2007 or has some of that time been coalitions?

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There was an informal coalition with the Tories from 2007-2011.
Other than that it’s been minority or majority SNP Governments. It would be hard for anybody to argue they haven’t held power since 2007 and keep a straight face. :greengrin

[Kato]

There was an informal coalition with the Tories from 2007-2011.
Other than that it’s been minority or majority SNP Governments. It would be hard for anybody to argue they haven’t held power since 2007 and keep a straight face. :greengrinAm only asking questions.

Its hard to keep a sense of proportion on this board the last few weeks. The proportion of scrutiny over aspects of govt is a bit hard to gain.

Seems like the SNP have screwed up over the ferry deal. Is something that they should be suspended or jailed for?

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[Skol]

Am only asking questions.

Its hard to keep a sense of proportion on this board the last few weeks. The proportion of scrutiny over aspects of govt is a bit hard to gain.

Seems like the SNP have screwed up over the ferry deal. Is something that they should be suspended or jailed for?

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No one suggested they should. But they should be held to account.

I know many people want to bury their heads in the sand and deflect attention elsewhere.

[Kato]

No one suggested they should. But they should be held to account.

I know many people want to bury their heads in the sand and deflect attention elsewhere.Yeah to hell with them.

I did open up the conversation and said that they had screwed up.

I'm now asking, given clearly something has happened, what should be done.

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[marinello59]

Am only asking questions.

Its hard to keep a sense of proportion on this board the last few weeks. The proportion of scrutiny over aspects of govt is a bit hard to gain.

Seems like the SNP have screwed up over the ferry deal. Is something that they should be suspended or jailed for?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Sadly no. :greengrin

The ferrry deal is just part of the problem. Somebody in Government was responsible for what has turned in to a costly and embarrassing saga yet nobody has been identified. That’s led to the fleet bring two vessels down and magnified the issues caused by vessels past their use by date. Alternatives should have been chartered long before now. Getting the MV Alfred in is a start but as it was left so long to act it’s had to be taken on as crewed and operated by the owner, the most expensive option. A bareboat charter utilising existing CalMac crew would have been preferable. Given the problems being faced because of the aging fleet we probably need at least another two in now
The Islanders themselves should have been better represented on the bodies that run our ferry services. It beggars belief how their voices have been marginalised, centralisation at its worst. That needs urgently rectified, these are the people who depend on a decent service, they know what is required better than somebody who has never lived there could.
We still have sea passages that are longer than they need to be, building terminals at the closest possible point to the Islands being served would allow service frequencies to be increased and possibly allow cheaper vessels to be constructed. That is going to require a large investment in infrastructure but we should be planning for it now.
Lessons have already been learned about procurement , the deal to build the latest new ships in Turkey looks like value for money and something to be applauded.

[grunt]

No one suggested they should. But they should be held to account.

I know many people want to bury their heads in the sand and deflect attention elsewhere.Accountability seems to be sadly lacking across politics of all shades in the UK today. To say that there is also no accountability in the UK Government is not to deflect attention elsewhere, merely to point out a problem that we all face.

[Skol]

Yeah to hell with them.

I did open up the conversation and said that they had screwed up.

I'm now asking, given clearly something has happened, what should be done.

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Yousaf seems to be talking of a review of some sort and changes as a result. That would be a start. Big test for him though.

[Skol]

Accountability seems to be sadly lacking across politics of all shades in the UK today. To say that there is also no accountability in the UK Government is not to deflect attention elsewhere, merely to point out a problem that we all face.

I agree there. As someone who doesn’t vote for a tory or snp government I feel pretty badly let down.

[Hibrandenburg]

No one suggested they should. But they should be held to account.

I know many people want to bury their heads in the sand and deflect attention elsewhere.

They will be, at the next election.

[He's here!]

New calls for Nicola Sturgeon to be suspended from SNP after fundraising leak (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/new-calls-for-nicola-sturgeon-to-be-suspended-from-snp-after-fundraising-leak/ar-AA19VB39?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=6147347cf9424b299c56312beaa806a6&ei=9)

Baillie calling for Sturgeon's suspension.

[Ozyhibby]

New calls for Nicola Sturgeon to be suspended from SNP after fundraising leak (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/new-calls-for-nicola-sturgeon-to-be-suspended-from-snp-after-fundraising-leak/ar-AA19VB39?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=6147347cf9424b299c56312beaa806a6&ei=9)

Baillie calling for Sturgeon's suspension.

She should submit that call to her branch Secretary giving her SNP member number.[emoji106]


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[J-C]

New calls for Nicola Sturgeon to be suspended from SNP after fundraising leak (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/new-calls-for-nicola-sturgeon-to-be-suspended-from-snp-after-fundraising-leak/ar-AA19VB39?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=6147347cf9424b299c56312beaa806a6&ei=9)

Baillie calling for Sturgeon's suspension.


Jackie Baillie, the Labour MSP Jackie Baillie :faf::faf::faf::faf::faf::faf:

[Since90+2]

New calls for Nicola Sturgeon to be suspended from SNP after fundraising leak (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/new-calls-for-nicola-sturgeon-to-be-suspended-from-snp-after-fundraising-leak/ar-AA19VB39?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=6147347cf9424b299c56312beaa806a6&ei=9)

Baillie calling for Sturgeon's suspension.

Jeez. People are scraping the barrel now.

[Since90+2]

They will be, at the next election.

Very well said.

[He's here!]

Jeez. People are scraping the barrel now.

Or the tip of the iceberg? ;-)

[Since90+2]

Or the tip of the iceberg? ;-)

I'm sure you hope that's the case, thought I think you may be disappointed.

[grunt]

Sunday mail
Oh the Sunday Mail you say?

Here's a thread about where this "newspaper" completely changed a historian's article when publishing it today.
This is how trustworthy the Sunday Mail is.

https://twitter.com/FunkyPlaid/status/1647589984780660737?s=20


What kind of bull**** is this, @Sunday_Mail (https://twitter.com/Sunday_Mail)
? This is not the text of the draft article I have on record. It’s been deliberately changed to portray blatant lies about my work and opinion, and I have proof of it. Never again will I give your reporters a moment of my time.

[Stairway 2 7]

Oh the Sunday Mail you say?

Here's a thread about where this "newspaper" completely changed a historian's article when publishing it today.
This is how trustworthy the Sunday Mail is.

https://twitter.com/FunkyPlaid/status/1647589984780660737?s=20

It was literally a video, unless she was computer generated by the mail

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65293006

Why the refusal to grant NEC members (and indeed the party's national treasurer) sight of the accounts if they were as robust as was alleged?

[grunt]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65293006

Why the refusal to grant NEC members (and indeed the party's national treasurer) sight of the accounts if they were as robust as was alleged?

"According to the Sunday Mail".

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65293006

Why the refusal to grant NEC members (and indeed the party's national treasurer) sight of the accounts if they were as robust as was alleged?

Not showing the treasurer is just bizarre.

[marinello59]

Not showing the treasurer is just bizarre.

I blame the media. :greengrin

[Kato]

Jeez. People are scraping the barrel now.Doesn't matter if its the barrel or the iceberg the press dogs have been lost lose and can now say anything they want about the SNP and the legions of curtain twitchers who love our tabloids will spread it around.

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[Ozyhibby]

Doesn't matter if its the barrel or the iceberg the press dogs have been lost lose and can now say anything they want about the SNP and the legions of curtain twitchers who love our tabloids will spread it around.

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All that is true but the SNP need to start fighting back. In the last two weeks they have not been putting up anyone to appear on news shows for interviews etc. It leaves the slot free for unionist politicians to present their view of the world. Yousaf needs to get some sort of media operation into gear quickly. To do that he needs to show that he is getting on top of this. So far it’s been pretty hopeless.


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[grunt]

Not showing the treasurer is just bizarre.

Oh this is a fact is it?

[grunt]

It was literally a video, unless she was computer generated by the mail

Which part of the video do you think is incriminating?

[Mibbes Aye]

Oh this is a fact is it?

:faf:

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19338480.douglas-chapman-steps-snp-citing-lack-financial-information/

Are you calling Douglas Chapman a liar? Or did the National just make this story up?

:greengrin

[He's here!]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/04/16/humza-yousaf-suspend-nicola-sturgeon-snp-peter-murrell/

Sturgeon not returning in person to Holyrood after the Easter break.

[Stairway 2 7]

Oh this is a fact is it?

Your really down the rabbit hole everyone is lying apart from the glorious dear leader

[grunt]

The video is from March 2021?

[grunt]

:faf:

https://www.thenational.scot/news/19338480.douglas-chapman-steps-snp-citing-lack-financial-information/

Are you calling Douglas Chapman a liar? Or did the National just make this story up?

:greengrinIs that you choosing which SNP people you believe? :cb

[grunt]

Your really down the rabbit hole everyone is lying apart from the glorious dear leader
Whereas you are choosing to believe those who meet your agenda. Neither of us know what the truth is here.

[Stairway 2 7]

Whereas you are choosing to believe those who meet your agenda. Neither of us know what the truth is here.

Difference is there has to be about 30 people lying for everything to be going great and normal in the snp. Or just you and the Murrells to be wrong for things to be going bad

[ronaldo7]

The video is from March 2021?

At the time, information was being leaked from the NEC, to some unsavoury outlets. They've since been replaced.

It's ok though. The Tories have demanded the SNP suspend Nicola sturgeon and Peter murrell

[He's here!]

Scots firms get nothing from £220m ferry deals given to Turkey | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/23458828.scots-firms-get-nothing-220m-ferry-deals-given-turkey/?ref=twtrec)

[He's here!]

The video is from March 2021?

The point being that she was telling the committee to keep their mouths shut about the party's finances and claiming they were in great shape shortly before her husband was loaning them over 100k to address cashflow problems and the police were embarking on their investigation into the missing 670k.

I'm not sure you can just brush off Chapman's departure over lack of access to the accounts when his successor as treasurer (Beattie) has admitted the party is struggling to balance the books.

[marinello59]

Scots firms get nothing from £220m ferry deals given to Turkey | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/23458828.scots-firms-get-nothing-220m-ferry-deals-given-turkey/?ref=twtrec)

I’m struggling to see the problem with this one.

[Smartie]

The point being that she was telling the committee to keep their mouths shut about the party's finances and claiming they were in great shape shortly before her husband was loaning them over 100k to address cashflow problems and the police were embarking on their investigation into the missing 670k.

I'm not sure you can just brush off Chapman's departure over lack of access to the accounts when his successor as treasurer (Beattie) has admitted the party is struggling to balance the books.

Would it not be expected that the books would be in decent shape in March 2021? The drop off in member numbers has presumably happened relatively recently (largely linked to unpopular policy choices so I'm not wanting to let them off the hook altogether).

A lot can change in a couple of years. And it's also not all that unusual for a business with generally healthy finances to need a help with cash flow from time to time.

Also, the point she is (presumably) trying to make is that whilst the finances may have been robust at that time, it's easy to spook people and cut off the flow of money. This is significant when they are relying on donors for that money. It's easy to manufacture a crisis entirely of your own making when none exists (which is as likely an explanation for this whole affair as anything else, from where I'm looking.)

Beattie's points are valid and true - but do they not refer more to the here and now, the post-covid, Ukraine war, post-Brexit, cost of living crisis era, where folk might think better of chucking a few quid the way of a pro-independence political party who have had the democratic door slammed shut in their faces?

[grunt]

Difference is there has to be about 30 people lying for everything to be going great and normal in the snp. Or just you and the Murrells to be wrong for things to be going badName your 30 people and we'll see how impartial and objective they are.

[grunt]

The point being that she was telling the committee to keep their mouths shut about the party's finances and claiming they were in great shape shortly before her husband was loaning them over 100k to address cashflow problems and the police were embarking on their investigation into the missing 670k.
The video was taken in March 2021. There is no loan in the SNP accounts at the 31 December 2021. So where do you get your "shortly before" from?

[grunt]

Beattie's points are valid and true - but do they not refer more to the here and now, the post-covid, Ukraine war, post-Brexit, cost of living crisis era, where folk might think better of chucking a few quid the way of a pro-independence political party who have had the democratic door slammed shut in their faces?
Now then. Away with your common sense arguments. We'll have none of that here.

[ronaldo7]

I’m struggling to see the problem with this one.

Scottish jobs for Scottish workers. 😒

[ronaldo7]

The point being that she was telling the committee to keep their mouths shut about the party's finances and claiming they were in great shape shortly before her husband was loaning them over 100k to address cashflow problems and the police were embarking on their investigation into the missing 670k.

I'm not sure you can just brush off Chapman's departure over lack of access to the accounts when his successor as treasurer (Beattie) has admitted the party is struggling to balance the books.

During this period, leaks were occurring from the NEC from the private meetings. Keeping their mouths shut until the minutes are released is normally a prerequisite of being on such a committee.

[He's here!]

The video was taken in March 2021. There is no loan in the SNP accounts at the 31 December 2021. So where do you get your "shortly before" from?

Police were first contacted re the missing funds in March 2021. Chapman and Cherry were among the NEC members to resign in May 2021 citing lack of transparency re accounts. Murrell loan made in June 2021.

[grunt]

Police were first contacted re the missing funds in March 2021. Chapman and Cherry were among the NEC members to resign in May 2021 citing lack of transparency re accounts. Murrell loan made in June 2021.So the loan was repaid by the year end?

[grunt]

During this period, leaks were occurring from the NEC from the private meetings. Keeping their mouths shut until the minutes are released is normally a prerequisite of being on such a committee.


Police were first contacted re the missing funds in March 2021. Chapman and Cherry were among the NEC members to resign in May 2021 citing lack of transparency re accounts. Murrell loan made in June 2021.So do we think Cherry leaked the video?

[ronaldo7]

So do we think Cherry leaked the video?

It's all speculation, like most things these days.

BBC Scotland running a piece the other day on motorhome toilets was a new low.

[He's here!]

So the loan was repaid by the year end?

Less than half has been repaid.

[grunt]

The video was taken in March 2021. There is no loan in the SNP accounts at the 31 December 2021. So where do you get your "shortly before" from?
I'm sorry, I was wrong, there's a £60k loan from executive management clear as day in the SNP 2021 accounts. (I was looking at the accounts for the SNP Westminster Group. Quite why they need separate accounts I don't know).

[grunt]

Less than half has been repaid.£60k was outstanding at December 2021.

[grunt]

So, as I've found out to my embarrassment, the loan from Murrell is clearly stated in the SNP accounts. So why all the fuss about it?

[Ozyhibby]

I'm sorry, I was wrong, there's a £60k loan from executive management clear as day in the SNP 2021 accounts. (I was looking at the accounts for the SNP Westminster Group. Quite why they need separate accounts I don't know).

It’s weird that? And separate audits need doing as well.
I’m sure I read that Scottish Labour don’t even have their own accounts? They are handled by the party in London?


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[CropleyWasGod]

I'm sorry, I was wrong, there's a £60k loan from executive management clear as day in the SNP 2021 accounts. (I was looking at the accounts for the SNP Westminster Group. Quite why they need separate accounts I don't know).


It’s weird that? And separate audits need doing as well.
I’m sure I read that Scottish Labour don’t even have their own accounts? They are handled by the party in London?


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Separate accounts are needed because, under Electoral Law, they are a separate accounting unit.

An audit is needed as their income is over £250k

Scottish Labour do have their own separate accounts, which are audited.

As an aside, the reserves of the SNP at the end of December 2021 were £610k. Those of Scottish Labour were £17k.

[grunt]

Separate accounts are needed because, under Electoral Law, they are a separate accounting unit.:aok:

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/mrjohnnicolson/status/1647935708668084226?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[marinello59]

The point being that she was telling the committee to keep their mouths shut about the party's finances and claiming they were in great shape shortly before her husband was loaning them over 100k to address cashflow problems and the police were embarking on their investigation into the missing 670k.

I'm not sure you can just brush off Chapman's departure over lack of access to the accounts when his successor as treasurer (Beattie) has admitted the party is struggling to balance the books.

I’ve watched the video a few times now and linking it back to the timeline of how events have unfolded I don’t think you could categorically say she has said anything out of order. You could only make that call if the entire conversation was present. There just doesn’t seem to be anything there that warrants her suspension from her party based on that clip alone.
That ain’t going to stop opposition politicians calling for it but that’s just part and parcel of normal political life. Sturgeon herself didn’t excuse herself from the normal rough and tumble, she seemed to relish it and it can be good fun to watch :greengrin

[He's here!]

https://twitter.com/Luanbj17/status/1646229832764620803?s=20

:-)

[Berwickhibby]

https://twitter.com/Luanbj17/status/1646229832764620803?s=20

:-)




:faf::faf: brilliant

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230417/8529db01136b913ece7943b4849f7f22.jpg


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[Betty Boop]

https://twitter.com/Luanbj17/status/1646229832764620803?s=20

:-)




:greengrin

[Since90+2]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230417/8529db01136b913ece7943b4849f7f22.jpg


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Fantastic.

[Ozyhibby]

Fantastic.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230417/578b07bfead69631d91b2035294970fb.jpg


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[He's here!]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230417/8529db01136b913ece7943b4849f7f22.jpg


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Is Ross not standing down as an MP next year?

[Ozyhibby]

Is Ross not standing down as an MP next year?

It sure looks like it.


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[Since90+2]

It sure looks like it.


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😂

[degenerated]

It sure looks like it.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWhilst that would be funny it would be absolutely hilarious if viceroy jack got emptied out.

[Eaststand]

it sure looks like it.


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😂👏

ggtth

[He's here!]

Nicola Sturgeon may never appear in Holyrood again SNP insiders say as she avoids Scottish Parliament (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/nicola-sturgeon-may-never-appear-in-holyrood-again-snp-insiders-say-as-she-avoids-scottish-parliament/ar-AA19XDpo?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=7eb3bc820ed34f0198e980d3b2e7c6c8&ei=15)

[grunt]

Nicola Sturgeon may never appear in Holyrood again SNP insiders say as she avoids Scottish Parliament (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/nicola-sturgeon-may-never-appear-in-holyrood-again-snp-insiders-say-as-she-avoids-scottish-parliament/ar-AA19XDpo?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=7eb3bc820ed34f0198e980d3b2e7c6c8&ei=15)
Unnamed sources. Chicken ****.

[Ozyhibby]

Nicola Sturgeon may never appear in Holyrood again SNP insiders say as she avoids Scottish Parliament (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/nicola-sturgeon-may-never-appear-in-holyrood-again-snp-insiders-say-as-she-avoids-scottish-parliament/ar-AA19XDpo?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=7eb3bc820ed34f0198e980d3b2e7c6c8&ei=15)

If she resigns would Sarwar have the balls to stand in the seat? He stood in that seat in 2021 and lost to Sturgeon. He says he election ready. Would be great to see a leader of Scottish Labour with some courage after going into hiding on GRR.


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[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65304667

Brass neck is the phrase which springs to mind.

[Berwickhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65304667

Brass neck is the phrase which springs to mind.

Hanging on to the Gravy Train as long as possible 🙄

[Since90+2]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65304667

Brass neck is the phrase which springs to mind.

Agreed, not sure this belongs on a SNP thread though. She's not been a SNP MSP for well over a year IIRC.

[ronaldo7]

:greengrin

😂

[Mibbes Aye]

Agreed, not sure this belongs on a SNP thread though. She's not been a SNP MSP for well over a year IIRC.

She was at the time of her actions but I see your point here.

This could be a clever wheeze for silencing any discussion of how mych Pete knew and how much Nicola knew.

Just make out that their SNP memberships had lapsed when the loans and the accounts were being discussed. Then we couldn't discuss it on here.

And let's face it, nobody is going to notice two lapsed memberships in amongst all the rest :greengrin

[Since90+2]

She was at the time of her actions but I see your point here.

This could be a clever wheeze for silencing any discussion of how mych Pete knew and how much Nicola knew.

Just make out that their SNP memberships had lapsed when the loans and the accounts were being discussed. Then we couldn't discuss it on here.

And let's face it, nobody is going to notice two lapsed memberships in amongst all the rest :greengrin

She was a SNP MSP at the time, but her actions led to her being launched out the party.

Absolutely no blame can be placed on the SNP here, but some people would blame them for absolutely anything, as is their obsession.

[Mibbes Aye]

She was a SNP MSP at the time, but her actions led to her being launched out the party.

Absolutely no blame can be placed on the SNP here, but some people would blame them for absolutely anything, as is their obsession.

And some people would be so defensive as to interpret a facetious post as a frenzied attack on the SNP. It unfortunately seems to cut both ways.

Anyway, I'm just glad I changed my original post, I was going to refer to them as Sneaky Pete and Tricky Nicky :greengrin

[Berwickhibby]

She was a SNP MSP at the time, but her actions led to her being launched out the party.

Absolutely no blame can be placed on the SNP here, but some people would blame them for absolutely anything, as is their obsession.

Typhoid Mary was an SNP MP when she decided to travel the length of the country on public transport…

[Ozyhibby]

She was at the time of her actions but I see your point here.

This could be a clever wheeze for silencing any discussion of how mych Pete knew and how much Nicola knew.

Just make out that their SNP memberships had lapsed when the loans and the accounts were being discussed. Then we couldn't discuss it on here.

And let's face it, nobody is going to notice two lapsed memberships in amongst all the rest :greengrin

Unlike the Labour Party where a couple of lapsed memberships might be a crisis.


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[Santa Cruz]

Unlike the Labour Party where a couple of lapsed memberships might be a crisis.


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They have some generous donor's, think it was £2k Jim Sillars donated to Jackie Baillie's last election campaign fund.

[CropleyWasGod]

They have some generous donor's, think it was £2k Jim Sillars donated to Jackie Baillie's last election campaign fund.

They have about 2.5% of the reserves that the SNP have.:greengrin

[Santa Cruz]

They have about 2.5% of the reserves that the SNP have.:greengrin

They also have an auditor. :aok:

[grunt]

And some people would be so defensive as to interpret a facetious post as a frenzied attack on the SNP. It unfortunately seems to cut both ways.
Defensive, right. I'll have to watch out for people who are defensive about their posts.

[Mibbes Aye]

Defensive, right. I'll have to watch out for people who are defensive about their posts.

You could save yourself a job by not making things up :greengrin

[marinello59]

They also have an auditor. :aok:

:greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

They also have an auditor. :aok:

Do they need one?


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[CropleyWasGod]

Do they need one?


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Yep

[He's here!]

If she resigns would Sarwar have the balls to stand in the seat? He stood in that seat in 2021 and lost to Sturgeon. He says he election ready. Would be great to see a leader of Scottish Labour with some courage after going into hiding on GRR.


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Scottish Labour leader criticises ‘deluded’ SNP amid party donations row | Scottish politics | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/apr/17/scottish-labour-leader-anas-sarwar-snp-party-donations-row-scotland-glasgow)

[Ozyhibby]

Scottish Labour leader criticises ‘deluded’ SNP amid party donations row | Scottish politics | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/apr/17/scottish-labour-leader-anas-sarwar-snp-party-donations-row-scotland-glasgow)

He won’t do it though.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/23458932.kate-forbes-scotgov-must-powers-end-poverty/

Forbes, McKee and Thomson set out policy proposals in collaboration with common weal.

https://commonweal.scot/policies/giving-substance-to-the-wellbeing-economy/

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[Santa Cruz]

He won’t do it though.


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I've read that link twice now, what is it Anas is saying he will do, that you're claiming he won't?

[He's here!]

The SNP is now an idiocracy | RobinMcAlpine.org (http://robinmcalpine.org/the-snp-is-now-an-idiocracy/)

[overdrive]

SNP Treasurer arrested now:

Police arrest SNP treasurer in finance probe https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65309791

[Ozyhibby]

I've read that link twice now, what is it Anas is saying he will do, that you're claiming he won't?

Run in Sturgeons constituency if she quits. He made a big thing about last election. Will he go for it this time? Would take political courage. Salmond did it in 2007. Or will he bottle it?


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/timesscotland/status/1648220066272403456?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

This is good news. Well done Yousaf.


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[Santa Cruz]

Run in Sturgeons constituency if she quits. He made a big thing about last election. Will he go for it this time? Would take political courage. Salmond did it in 2007. Or will he bottle it?


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He has an elected seat already. The sensible thing to do is let another candidate stand to try to increase the vote share. He'll no doubt run again for a constiuency seat when the next election is held. Maybe he'll run in a more marginal seat like Humza's, he seems to be doing a fair bit of meeting and greeting there just now.

[Stairway 2 7]

SNP Treasurer arrested now:

Police arrest SNP treasurer in finance probe https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65309791

Ooft. That wings radge was saying the last few days to watch out for this happening.

[Ozyhibby]

Yousaf should suspend Beattie and Murrell pending an investigation. He needs to show he is getting a grip of the situation.


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/23458932.kate-forbes-scotgov-must-powers-end-poverty/

Forbes, McKee and Thomson set out policy proposals in collaboration with common weal.

https://commonweal.scot/policies/giving-substance-to-the-wellbeing-economy/

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This seems massive. I'll be interested as I like a lot of common weal stuff.

She should have been given a large role in government she's clearly the second most visible politician in Scotland now, Humza should have had her on the inside.

[Stairway 2 7]

Yousaf should suspend Beattie and Murrell pending an investigation. He needs to show he is getting a grip of the situation.


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Michelle Thompson was suspended as soon as she was arrested , it doesn't mean there is guilt. No charges were made against her so they voted her back into the party

[grunt]

Police arrest SNP treasurer in finance probe https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65309791
Why does the BBC put "cash flow" in quotes in that article?

[Hiber-nation]

Beattie is my MSP and I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

[He's here!]

Ooft. That wings radge was saying the last few days to watch out for this happening.

Yep, seems to have a direct line to what's happening at the black heart of the party.

[Ozyhibby]

Michelle Thompson was suspended as soon as she was arrested , it doesn't mean there is guilt. No charges were made against her so they voted her back into the party

And that can be the same now. Suspension just protects the party in the meantime.
Wish he would grasp this. Today’s education announcement is a step in the right direction. More of the same.
Soon he will need to deal with the fact that the partnership with the Greens is doomed due to the arithmetic on HPMA’s. Better to be on the front foot on that rather than just react when it hits.


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[He's here!]

Why does the BBC put "cash flow" in quotes in that article?

That's the main take from the story for sure...

FYI though it relates to the quote the SNP gave to explain the Murrell loan.

[grunt]

Yep, seems to have a direct line to what's happening at the black heart of the party.Or perhaps someone in the police investigation is leaking info to him?

[grunt]

That's the main take from the story for sure...

FYI though it relates to the quote the SNP gave to explain the Murrell loan.Did I say it was my main take?* It just seems strange, almost like using air quotes to imply that something is not true. Are you suggesting they've put it in quotes because it's a quote from the SNP?

*Defensive response.

[archie]

Run in Sturgeons constituency if she quits. He made a big thing about last election. Will he go for it this time? Would take political courage. Salmond did it in 2007. Or will he bottle it?


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But he wouldn't be running against the former FM. I suspect you may not have Labour's interests at heart!

[Ozyhibby]

But he wouldn't be running against the former FM. I suspect you may not have Labour's interests at heart!

It’s ok not to have confidence in your ability. Especially if your Anas Sarwar.


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[Mibbes Aye]

Are you suggesting they've put it in quotes because it's a quote from the SNP?.


Where will their invidious perfidy end? 😂

[archie]

It’s ok not to have confidence in your ability. Especially if your Anas Sarwar.


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Or why would a party leader put themselves up against some no mark?

[Mibbes Aye]

Yousaf should suspend Beattie and Murrell pending an investigation. He needs to show he is getting a grip of the situation.


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Does the power not sit with the Party Secretary?

I suppose one question for an interested observer is the party’s relationship with the external lawyer brought in at presumably no small cost. Does that mean their workload has now gone up and more of your membership fees are paying for that?

Has the SNP even told its members how much this is costing them?

[grunt]

Where will their invidious perfidy end? 😂
Do you have trouble understanding posts? Or are you deliberately misunderstanding, in a troll-like manner?

[Ozyhibby]

Does the power not sit with the Party Secretary?

I suppose one question for an interested observer is the party’s relationship with the external lawyer brought in at presumably no small cost. Does that mean their workload has now gone up and more of your membership fees are paying for that?

Has the SNP even told its members how much this is costing them?

I think the party not telling members things is at the heart of our difficulties which is why I want Yousaf to get a grip.
In a situation like this, I have no problem with hiring legal advice. It’s unavoidable. Most members would agree.


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[Santa Cruz]

I think the party not telling members things is at the heart of our difficulties which is why I want Yousaf to get a grip.
In a situation like this, I have no problem with hiring legal advice. It’s unavoidable. Most members would agree.


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Sounds like you don't have confidence in the FM's ability. Pointing the finger at Anas to deflect your concerns?? :rolleyes:

[Mibbes Aye]

I think the party not telling members things is at the heart of our difficulties which is why I want Yousaf to get a grip.
In a situation like this, I have no problem with hiring legal advice. It’s unavoidable. Most members would agree.


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That literally answered none of the three questions in my post!

You‘ve been lined up to be the next party treasurer, haven’t you? 😀

[ronaldo7]

Or why would a party leader put themselves up against some no mark?

Keir Starmer isn't standing or is this Breaking news.

No mark... How nice of you. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

That literally answered none of the three questions in my post!

You‘ve been lined up to be the next party treasurer, haven’t you? [emoji3]

I thought it at least answered whether the members have been told?


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[147lothian]

Beattie is my MSP and I wouldn't trust him as far as I could throw him.

Seems like the snp is riddled with corruption

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65309791

[Ozyhibby]

Seems like the snp is riddled with corruption https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65309791

We’ll see when charges are brought. Can’t be long now.


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[Ozyhibby]

Seems like the snp is riddled with corruption

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65309791

We are amateurs at this though.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/conservative-party-electoral-commission-2019-general-election/


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[Mibbes Aye]

Do you have trouble understanding posts? Or are you deliberately misunderstanding, in a troll-like manner?

No and no.

But to avoid any risk of misunderstanding can we clarify your recent posts?

Are you saying that the police are leaking to WoS? And are you saying the BBC are using quotation marks, not because they are quoting an SNP spokesperson but because they are trying to suggest the person is lying?

[ronaldo7]

We are amateurs at this though.

https://www.opendemocracy.net/en/conservative-party-electoral-commission-2019-general-election/


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Ach it's all proportional you know.

The Electoral Commission was aware of the Conservative Party breaches but decided it was “not proportionate” to take any enforcement action.

[archie]

Keir Starmer isn't standing or is this Breaking news.

No mark... How nice of you. :greengrin

OK - you have a point. Why doesn't Humza resign and then stand? That would be such a sign of confidence.

[Smartie]

Again - would it not make sense that during such an investigation that the current treasurer be rigorously questioned at some point?

[ronaldo7]

OK - you have a point. Why doesn't Humza resign and then stand? That would be such a sign of confidence.

Is there precedence for this?

[147lothian]

Again - would it not make sense that during such an investigation that the current treasurer be rigorously questioned at some point?

The current treasurer would only be arrested if there is reasonable grounds to believe he has been involved in corruption.

[ronaldo7]

Again - would it not make sense that during such an investigation that the current treasurer be rigorously questioned at some point?

They've got a list, and are getting through them one by one.

[ronaldo7]

The current treasurer would only be arrested if there is reasonable grounds to believe he has been involved in corruption.

Not true.

[archie]

Is there precedence for this?

Well people here have been calling on Sarwar to resign and stand in former FMs seat, should she resign. Apparently if he doesn't he 'lacks the balls'. As the SNP demanded a general election when the Tory leadership elections took place but then said that shouldn't happen here, it would show he wasn't a hypocrite.

[Berwickhibby]

Or perhaps someone in the police investigation is leaking info to him?

More likely another corrupt SNP member or employee

[archie]

Not true.

You couldn't arrest someone without reasonable grounds.

[ronaldo7]

You couldn't arrest someone without reasonable grounds.

Not only for corruption though. 👍

[ronaldo7]

Well people here have been calling on Sarwar to resign and stand in former FMs seat, should she resign. Apparently if he doesn't he 'lacks the balls'. As the SNP demanded a general election when the Tory leadership elections took place but then said that shouldn't happen here, it would show he wasn't a hypocrite.

No precedence then. 👍

[archie]

No precedence then. 👍

No, just hypocrisy.

[He's here!]

And that can be the same now. Suspension just protects the party in the meantime.
Wish he would grasp this. Today’s education announcement is a step in the right direction. More of the same.
Soon he will need to deal with the fact that the partnership with the Greens is doomed due to the arithmetic on HPMA’s. Better to be on the front foot on that rather than just react when it hits.


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Not sure any policy announcement Yousaf makes today will have much cut-through thanks to the latest arrest of a high profile SNP figure. Safe to say that's the top story on the media agenda.

He really has been thrown to the wolves and must be privately pondering whether 'continuity' candidate was the way to go. Must be questionable how long he lasts as leader as the rug continues to get pulled from underneath him.

[pollution]

What a national embarrassment this is for Scotland, no matter which party you vote for.

To think we thought we were above so called Tory corruption and incompetence.

The sooner the police investigations and possible prosecutions are over the better. My real concern is: where do we go from here ? Who can we trust ??

[ronaldo7]

No, just hypocrisy.

He maybe just doesn't want to go up against a no mark. 😌

[He's here!]

Did I say it was my main take?* It just seems strange, almost like using air quotes to imply that something is not true. Are you suggesting they've put it in quotes because it's a quote from the SNP?

*Defensive response.

Yes, it's a direct quote from the SNP from the time the Murrell loan was being called into question which is why it's in quote marks (ie so that the BBC aren't being seen to imply the SNP has cashflow issues without an attributable source).

Is that the answer you're looking for? I'm just not quite sure why that's the part of the story which jumps out at you.

[Smartie]

What a national embarrassment this is for Scotland, no matter which party you vote for.

To think we thought we were above so called Tory corruption and incompetence.

The sooner the police investigations and possible prosecutions are over the better. My real concern is: where do we go from here ? Who can we trust ??

Probably best to wait and see if there are any prosecutions or if there is any confirmed corruption first.

[archie]

He maybe just doesn't want to go up against a no mark. 😌

Neat avoidance of the point.

[grunt]

Yes, it's a direct quote from the SNP from the time the Murrell loan was being called into question which is why it's in quote marks (ie so that the BBC aren't being seen to imply the SNP has cashflow issues without an attributable source). Is that the answer you're looking for? I'm just not quite sure why that's the part of the story which jumps out at you.Because in a story about financial mismanagement (which is what I think this whole circus is about) the use of the words "cash flow" are standard accounting terms so not in the least surprising to see as the reason why a loan was obtained. Given they are every day words there is no need or reason to put them in quotes. Putting them in quotes in the story implies there's some doubt as to why the money was needed. None of the other words in the story are in quotes like that. Presumably the SNP also called it a "loan" but the BBC didn't see the need to put that in quote marks. I could understand if it was written as a direct quote ("the SNP said ...") but it's not.

Just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean I'm wrong.

[Ozyhibby]

Probably best to wait and see if there are any prosecutions or if there is any confirmed corruption first.

Or even any charges.


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[ronaldo7]

Neat avoidance of the point.

Only using your words from 10.33 this morning. 😂

[archie]

Only using your words from 10.33 this morning. ��

And my point was to illustrate that the Labour leader wouldn't be standing against the former FM. This was in response to the confected notion that Sarwar 'lacked the balls' to put himself up against who the SNP put up, should FM resign. But even though FM called for an election when Sunak was elected leader, it doesn't seem to apply in FM's case.

[ronaldo7]

And my point was that the Labour leader wouldn't be standing agaist the former FM.

Aye. Just some no mark. Very nice of you. 😂😂👌

[archie]

Aye. Just some no mark. Very nice of you. 😂😂👌

?????

[Ozyhibby]

And my point was to illustrate that the Labour leader wouldn't be standing against the former FM. This was in response to the confected notion that Sarwar 'lacked the balls' to put himself up against who the SNP put up, should FM resign. But even though FM called for an election when Sunak was elected leader, it doesn't seem to apply in FM's case.

I brought up because that’s the seat he stood in 2021. Surely he’d want to show how far Labour have come?


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[archie]

I brought up because that’s the seat he stood in 2021. Surely he’d want to show how far Labour have come?


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So why doesn't Humza stand to show the confidence he has that he's the right person to lead?

[Ozyhibby]

So why doesn't Humza stand to show the confidence he has that he's the right person to lead?

He has a constituency seat. Sarwar does not.


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[Berwickhibby]

Let me see if I have the Colin Beattie timeline correct, October 2020 he sends out the “woven through the accounts” email to SNP members. November 2020 he fails to be re-elected as Treasurer, Douglas Chapman wins.
May 2021 Douglas Chapman resigns as treasurer, due to transparency issues, Beattie returns.
April 2023 Beattie is arrested in connection with ongoing investigations related to fraud in the SNP. If it walks like a duck….

[Ozyhibby]

Let me see if I have the Colin Beattie timeline correct, October 2020 he sends out the “woven through the accounts” email to SNP members. November 2020 he fails to be re-elected as Treasurer, Douglas Chapman wins.
May 2021 Douglas Chapman resigns as treasurer, due to transparency issues, Beattie returns.
April 2023 Beattie is arrested in connection with ongoing investigations related to fraud in the SNP. If it walks like a duck….

That how you made charging decisions back in the day?[emoji23]


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[ronaldo7]

That how you made charging decisions back in the day?[emoji23]


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Standards in policing have improved.😅

[Santa Cruz]

He has a constituency seat. Sarwar does not.


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Neither does either co-Leader of the Scottish Green Party. 4 elections on the bounce and Patrick Harvie is yet to win a constiuency seat. You'll be wanting them to stand too then to show how far they've came gaining a ministerial post?

[Berwickhibby]

That how you made charging decisions back in the day?[emoji23]


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Noo…evidence is required, my thoughts are possibly Beattie could be be the problem not Murrell

[Mibbes Aye]

That how you made charging decisions back in the day?[emoji23]


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I think the phrase you were looking for is ‘Bang to rights’ :wink: :greengrin