SNP are lying b******s as well !

[archie]

He has a constituency seat. Sarwar does not.


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But he did say Sunak should call an election when he became leader. Why doesn't that apply here?

[One Day Soon]

Strong 'lone Japanese soldier carries on war on desert island decades after it's all over' vibe to some of the Nationalist posts on this thread recently.

The rate of disintegration is spectacular and it's only just getting started.

[He's here!]

Let me see if I have the Colin Beattie timeline correct, October 2020 he sends out the “woven through the accounts” email to SNP members. November 2020 he fails to be re-elected as Treasurer, Douglas Chapman wins.
May 2021 Douglas Chapman resigns as treasurer, due to transparency issues, Beattie returns.
April 2023 Beattie is arrested in connection with ongoing investigations related to fraud in the SNP. If it walks like a duck….

Yep, Beattie lost out to Chapman but was back in post barely six months later. Was there a vote to re-instate him or would nobody else touch the role?

No wonder Sturgeon's continuing to lie low amid all this...her farewell tour barely got as far as a Loose Women appearance before grinding to a halt. The UN role she's reputed to covet might prove harder to nail down than she hoped as her legacy (such as it was) continues to be put through the mincer.

[Ozyhibby]

Noo…evidence is required, my thoughts are possibly Beattie could be be the problem not Murrell

From what out there I don’t know how anyone can have any thoughts? There just isn’t enough info. And when it comes to accountancy and law, I’m baffled by both subjects. So far I haven’t seen anything that constitutes obvious law breaking? Lot of poor governance practice right enough but not a lot of evidence of law breaking.
Given what happened in the case against the former Rangers admin teams, I’m not that confident in the PF or Crown office or whoever is in charge. Police Scotland have went in pretty heavy handed so there must have been some pretty strong evidence, in which case we can’t be far away from a charging decision? If they botch this up, the Murrells could be looking at a bumper pay out for their retirement.


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[Ozyhibby]

Yep, Beattie lost out to Chapman but was back in post barely six months later. Was there a vote to re-instate him or would nobody else touch the role?

No wonder Sturgeon's continuing to lie low amid all this...her farewell tour barely got as far as a Loose Women appearance before grinding to a halt. The UN role she's reputed to covet might prove harder to nail down than she hoped as her legacy (such as it was) continues to be put through the mincer.

Unless there is a charge against her then I don’t see why it would affect her career going forward?


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[Ozyhibby]

Strong 'lone Japanese soldier carries on war on desert island decades after it's all over' vibe to some of the Nationalist posts on this thread recently.

The rate of disintegration is spectacular and it's only just getting started.

You must be confident the SNP will lose the next election?


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[Stairway 2 7]

You must be confident the SNP will lose the next election?


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But there raison d'etre is getting independence, not having more seats than labour. I reckon a split in the SNP is closer than a split in the union right now. Defacto referendums and pushing for another 50% of the vote seems a world away

[He's here!]

From what out there I don’t know how anyone can have any thoughts? There just isn’t enough info. And when it comes to accountancy and law, I’m baffled by both subjects. So far I haven’t seen anything that constitutes obvious law breaking? Lot of poor governance practice right enough but not a lot of evidence of law breaking.
Given what happened in the case against the former Rangers admin teams, I’m not that confident in the PF or Crown office or whoever is in charge. Police Scotland have went in pretty heavy handed so there must have been some pretty strong evidence, in which case we can’t be far away from a charging decision? If they botch this up, the Murrells could be looking at a bumper pay out for their retirement.


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You say that as though the Scottish government had no part to play in that ongoing and eye-wateringly expensive fiasco. Folk tend to forget that that the Lord Advocate is not a member of the independent judiciary. He/she is a political appointee, a minister in the Scottish government. Basically the government's own lawyer as well as being the head of the prosecution service. Lord Wolffe (who issued the apology over the 'malicious' prosecutions) has long stood down from the post, but this was a mess of the SG's making, as was the reckless decision to pursue Salmond through the courts.

[Ozyhibby]

You say that as though the Scottish government had no part to play in that ongoing and eye-wateringly expensive fiasco. Folk tend to forget that that the Lord Advocate is not a member of the independent judiciary. He/she is a political appointee, a minister in the Scottish government. Basically the government's own lawyer as well as being the head of the prosecution service. Lord Wolffe (who issued the apology over the 'malicious' prosecutions) has long stood down from the post, but this was a mess of the SG's making, as was the reckless decision to pursue Salmond through the courts.

Clearly it’s a service that is in need of reform.


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[marinello59]

Unless there is a charge against her then I don’t see why it would affect her career going forward?


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Whether any criminal charges result from all this or not her reputation as a leader is in tatters given the absolute mess she has left her party and Government in. The Empress really did have no clothes.

[Ozyhibby]

Whether any criminal charges result from all this or not her reputation as a leader is in tatters given the absolute mess she has left her party and Government in. The Empress really did have no clothes.

If there are no charges then what mess?


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[ronaldo7]

Strong 'lone Japanese soldier carries on war on desert island decades after it's all over' vibe to some of the Nationalist posts on this thread recently.

The rate of disintegration is spectacular and it's only just getting started.

I'd have suggested vultures circling what they think is a carcass which is not nearly at its end.

Nationalist posts eh.

[147lothian]

Humza is the continuity candidate for the corrupt old guard, the snp stinks of corruption and he is implicated, if only the snp had went for Kate Forbes.

[SteveHFC]

Humza Yousaf has also instructed officials to take controversial proposals on banning alcohol advertising back to the drawing board.

NEW: Humza Yousaf has announced the introduction of the deposit return scheme (DRS) will be delayed by 10 months until March 1 next year.

[He's here!]

Strong 'lone Japanese soldier carries on war on desert island decades after it's all over' vibe to some of the Nationalist posts on this thread recently.

The rate of disintegration is spectacular and it's only just getting started.

Indeed. Breezy attempts to frame it as just another day-to-day challenge for the SNP seem rather desperate. Has there ever been such high-profile engagement between the criminal justice system and a UK political party?

[WhileTheChief..]

You must be confident the SNP will lose the next election?


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They're going to lose a lot of seats.

Then i guess it's either a coalition or minority gov, both of which will be better than what we've got just now.

[He's here!]

Humza Yousaf has also instructed officials to take controversial proposals on banning alcohol advertising back to the drawing board.

NEW: Humza Yousaf has announced the introduction of the deposit return scheme (DRS) will be delayed by 10 months until March 1 next year.

Fingers crossed 'full steam ahead for August' Slater will carry the can for this.

[WhileTheChief..]

If there are no charges then what mess?


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The damage is done.

It doesn't matter a jot if nothing else comes out, or if anyone is found guilty of anything.

Biggest mess in 50 years is how Mike Russell described the SNP recently. Hard to argue with that.

[Santa Cruz]

Fingers crossed 'full steam ahead for August' Slater will carry the can for this.

She'll need to keep it safe till March to get her 20p back.

[SteveHFC]

Was it just me that thinks Humza came across well?

[He's here!]

Ooft. That wings radge was saying the last few days to watch out for this happening.

Wings Over Scotland | And so far yet to go (https://wingsoverscotland.com/and-so-far-yet-to-go/#more-137109)

Be interesting to see how accurate their latest 'tips' prove to be...

[Ozyhibby]

The damage is done.

It doesn't matter a jot if nothing else comes out, or if anyone is found guilty of anything.

Biggest mess in 50 years is how Mike Russell described the SNP recently. Hard to argue with that.

Even if it turns out to be a malicious investigation?


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[Ozyhibby]

Who is this Megan Gallagher? [emoji51]


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[WhileTheChief..]

Even if it turns out to be a malicious investigation?


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Probably.

Most us get snippets on the news, we don't go looking for all the details after the event.

Come election time, the talk will be about a blue tent and a camper van, that's what folk will remember.

[Ozyhibby]

Probably.

Most us get snippets on the news, we don't go looking for all the details after the event.

Come election time, the talk will be about a blue tent and a camper van, that's what folk will remember.

Job done then I guess.


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[Berwickhibby]

Was it just me that thinks Humza came across well?

Nope came across as an idiot full of sound bites

[Ozyhibby]

Was it just me that thinks Humza came across well?

He’s battering Sarwar just now.


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[WhileTheChief..]

Job done then I guess.


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I don't know what you mean by that? Job done by whom?

There's clearly problems within the SNP that we weren't aware of before now. It looks like they were all of their own making no?

[Ozyhibby]

I don't know what you mean by that? Job done by whom?

There's clearly problems within the SNP that we weren't aware of before now. It looks like they were all of their own making no?

All we know just now if that there are transparency problems in the management of the party. We don’t really know anything else yet.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Unfortunately no one will really see humzas big speech today. All the news will be the arrest and the emergency meeting of snp msps. He might have delayed it but I guess that would look bad too.

[Berwickhibby]

All we know just now if that there are transparency problems in the management of the party. We don’t really know anything else yet.


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I think if the SNP actually answer the question where the missing £600k was spent then the criminal investigation can be closed.

[Ozyhibby]

I think if the SNP actually answer the question where the missing £600k was spent then the criminal investigation can be closed.

I assume all the accounts are now in the hands of Police Scotland. They should bring forward the charges.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Someone needs to tell him to stop talking. He's kept the story alive this week with radge quotes, yesterday was about you can't blame Sturgeon for her husbands deeds. Wake up man

James Heale
@JAHeale
·
Superb quote from Humza Yousaf at today’s press huddle: “I’m always surprised when one of my colleagues is arrested

[Ozyhibby]

Someone needs to tell him to stop talking. He's kept the story alive this week with radge quotes, yesterday was about you can't blame Sturgeon for her husbands deeds. Wake up man

James Heale
@JAHeale
·
Superb quote from Humza Yousaf at today’s press huddle: “I’m always surprised when one of my colleagues is arrested

He’ll be pleased with how things went in the chamber though.


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[Berwickhibby]

I assume all the accounts are now in the hands of Police Scotland. They should bring forward the charges.


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The accounts may be in Police hands but if there has been creative accounting, proving the were fraudulent and dishonest can take time …especially since they have long enough to hide their tracks

[Ozyhibby]

The accounts may be in Police hands but if there has been creative accounting, proving the were fraudulent and dishonest can take time …especially since they have long enough to hide their tracks

Should be able to string it out for years.[emoji106]


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[grunt]

Police Scotland have went in pretty heavy handed so there must have been some pretty strong evidence, in which case we can’t be far away from a charging decision?
I thought Berwickhibby said that the Police Scotland role was to obtain evidence? Are you saying there was evidence in hand before the tent and the digging up the garden?

[grunt]

The accounts may be in Police hands but if there has been creative accounting, proving the were fraudulent and dishonest can take time …especially since they have long enough to hide their tracksTracks of what? What do you think they are hiding?

Also, last time I looked, creative accounting wasn't illegal. The SNP 2021 Accounts have a clean audit report.

[Mibbes Aye]

Even if it turns out to be a malicious investigation?


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Are you suggesting the police are investigating/arresting the likes of Colin Beattie because of malice?

I’m assuming you are not. As for Meghan Gallagher, was she on TV just now? I’m guessing Humza is doing his not-overshadowed at all election-less manifesto thingy.

Gallagher used to be a Tory councillor in North Lanarkshire, not that long ago in fact. I actually think she deserves grudging respect for that, doorstepping must have been a nightmare :greengrin. Clearly she is progressing through their ranks.

[grunt]

Let me see if I have the Colin Beattie timeline correct, October 2020 he sends out the “woven through the accounts” email to SNP members. November 2020 he fails to be re-elected as Treasurer, Douglas Chapman wins.
May 2021 Douglas Chapman resigns as treasurer, due to transparency issues, Beattie returns.
April 2023 Beattie is arrested in connection with ongoing investigations related to fraud in the SNP. If it walks like a duck….This is like one of those internet quizzes where you are shown a picture with lots of dots and asked if you can see the giraffe.

I can't see the duck here.

[Berwickhibby]

This is like one of those internet quizzes where you are shown a picture with lots of dots and asked if you can see the giraffe.

I can't see the duck here.

Me neither just a corrupt Treasurer who is currently in police custody being interviewed under caution for his knowledge of where the missing money went

[Ozyhibby]

Are you suggesting the police are investigating/arresting the likes of Colin Beattie because of malice?

I’m assuming you are not. As for Meghan Gallagher, was she on TV just now? I’m guessing Humza is doing his not-overshadowed at all election-less manifesto thingy.

Gallagher used to be a Tory councillor in North Lanarkshire, not that long ago in fact. I actually think she deserves grudging respect for that, doorstepping must have been a nightmare :greengrin. Clearly she is progressing through their ranks.

I’m not. I expect there to be a charge.
However, it’s not like malicious prosecutions are unheard of lately.


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[grunt]

Wings Over Scotland | And so far yet to go (https://wingsoverscotland.com/and-so-far-yet-to-go/#more-137109)

Be interesting to see how accurate their latest 'tips' prove to be...I feel kinda grubby after reading that.
Unless I missed something really significant, it just seems to be innuendo and saying nasty things about various SNP staff and members.

He seems to be a really rather horrible person.

[Berwickhibby]

I feel kinda grubby after reading that.
Unless I missed something really significant, it just seems to be innuendo and saying nasty things about various SNP staff and members.

He seems to be a really rather horrible person.

Wait a minute …I agree with you

[grunt]

Me neither just a corrupt Treasurer who is currently in police custody being interviewed under caution for his knowledge of where the missing money went
How do you know he's corrupt? Has he been tried and found guilty of anything?

[grunt]

Wait a minute …I agree with youScary, eh?

[One Day Soon]

He’ll be pleased with how things went in the chamber though.


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Because no one was arrested there?

[Mibbes Aye]

Are you saying there was evidence in hand before the tent and the digging up the garden?

It helps save time. If they went random they could be digging and pitching in the wrong town, let alone at the wrong house :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

He’ll be pleased with how things went in the chamber though.


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How many would have watched a few hundred? Any info on it will be pages behind the stories of the snp treasurer being arrested and the bottle return being delayed despite Slater saying the opposite constantly. Actually it was probably a good day to bury the later as the former is all anyone will talk about

[Ozyhibby]

How many would have watched a few hundred? Any info on it will be pages behind the stories of the snp treasurer being arrested and the bottle return being delayed despite Slater saying the opposite constantly. Actually it was probably a good day to bury the later as the former is all anyone will talk about

Agree. There is no alternative now other than to carry on with the business of government. The police investigation will run its course.
I’d prefer he suspended the two who have been arrested for now to show he is getting on top of things. He also needs to really speed up announcements of governance reforms in the party.
These are all internal SNP things though.
What he did in the chamber is more important. And that was good. Especially the stuff about business.


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[grunt]

Because no one was arrested there?
:greengrin

Yet.

[Ozyhibby]

:greengrin

Yet.

Many more performances like that from Sarwar and he’ll be getting lifted.[emoji51]


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[He's here!]

Unfortunately no one will really see humzas big speech today. All the news will be the arrest and the emergency meeting of snp msps. He might have delayed it but I guess that would look bad too.

The latest delay to the bottle return scheme will be pretty much the only thing that garners any traction outwith Beattie's arrest. Yousaf looked like a rabbit in the headlights when questioned about it all before going into the chamber. Almost felt sorry for him.

Nothing in his speech about his priorities for the next three years about independence? How things have changed...

https://i0.wp.com/wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/easter13.jpg?ssl=1

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/18/yousaf-reverses-key-sturgeon-policies-as-he-sets-out-fresh-vision-for-scotland?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1681833174


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[Ozyhibby]

The latest delay to the bottle return scheme will be pretty much the only thing that garners any traction outwith Beattie's arrest. Yousaf looked like a rabbit in the headlights when questioned about it all before going into the chamber. Almost felt sorry for him.

Nothing in his speech about his priorities for the next three years about independence? How things have changed...
https://i0.wp.com/wingsoverscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/easter13.jpg?ssl=1

You didn’t feel sorry for Sarwar in the chamber? Labour MSP’s must have been feeling a little bit uncomfortable.


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[Berwickhibby]

New SNP fashion trend - Felt collars :faf::faf:

[Just Alf]

New SNP fashion trend - Felt collars :faf::faf::faf: liked that one

[Hibrandenburg]

What a national embarrassment this is for Scotland, no matter which party you vote for.

To think we thought we were above so called Tory corruption and incompetence.

The sooner the police investigations and possible prosecutions are over the better. My real concern is: where do we go from here ? Who can we trust ??

Who has been found guilty of corruption?

[Hibrandenburg]

Was it just me that thinks Humza came across well?

Where?

[Jim44]

Has he actually been arrested? Do they not usually describe this as ‘ helping the police in their enquiries’?

[147lothian]

Where?

When he asked the Ukrainian women refugees "where are all the men".

[grunt]

Has he actually been arrested? Do they not usually describe this as ‘ helping the police in their enquiries’?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ft-0BWiXoAEZT4t?format=jpg&name=medium

[147lothian]

Where?

This is where Humza Yousaf comes off well!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eVsD7mKHlDM

[ronaldo7]

Aamer Anwar is the new leader of the British Labour party in Scotland according to ITV news. 😂

Poor Anas, they don't know who he is.

[Skol]

Beattie released without charge. As per murrell.

I was wondering why they have been arrested and why not just helping with enquiries. Is it because they said no and therefore had to be arrested to be taken in? Or is it just standard practice.

Like Ozy I don’t think there will be charges. Doesn’t mean something fishy hasn’t gone on, it’s just whether it’s criminal and with a likelihood of a conviction.

I don’t think Yousaf can suspend murrell and Beattie just in case sturgeon is next to be arrested.

[CropleyWasGod]

Beattie released without charge. As per murrell.

I was wondering why they have been arrested and why not just helping with enquiries. Is it because they said no and therefore had to be arrested to be taken in? Or is it just standard practice.

Like Ozy I don’t think there will be charges. Doesn’t mean something fishy hasn’t gone on, it’s just whether it’s criminal and with a likelihood of a conviction.

I don’t think Yousaf can suspend murrell and Beattie just in case sturgeon is next to be arrested.

Since NS was the only other party officer at the time under review, it wouldn't be unsurprising if she was next.

[ronaldo7]

They'll be after someone else next. It's become a circus.

[grunt]

They'll be after someone else next. It's become a circus.

Become?

[marinello59]

Since NS was the only other party officer at the time under review, it wouldn't be unsurprising if she was next.

It looks almost inevitable now.

[Ozyhibby]

Beattie released without charge. As per murrell.

I was wondering why they have been arrested and why not just helping with enquiries. Is it because they said no and therefore had to be arrested to be taken in? Or is it just standard practice.

Like Ozy I don’t think there will be charges. Doesn’t mean something fishy hasn’t gone on, it’s just whether it’s criminal and with a likelihood of a conviction.

I don’t think Yousaf can suspend murrell and Beattie just in case sturgeon is next to be arrested.

I actually think there will have to be charges now. Otherwise it looks politically motivated. You go in as heavy as they have then you need to have pretty strong suspicions.
I don’t see yet what is illegal but I think they’ll need to come up with something.
I think Beattie will need to be relieved of his parliamentary duties. I think he’s on a committee. He should stand down from that in the meantime. It’s not an admission of guilt. It just makes sense. I expect that will happen tonight or tomorrow morning.


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[grunt]

I don’t see yet what is illegal but I think they’ll need to come up with something.

Just pause for a moment and reflect on what you've just written.

[Skol]

I actually think there will have to be charges now. Otherwise it looks politically motivated. You go in as heavy as they have then you need to have pretty strong suspicions.
I don’t see yet what is illegal but I think they’ll need to come up with something.
I think Beattie will need to be relieved of his parliamentary duties. I think he’s on a committee. He should stand down from that in the meantime. It’s not an admission of guilt. It just makes sense. I expect that will happen tonight or tomorrow morning.


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Charges for what though? I don’t for a minute think they have taken the money for themselves. It was just used for other snp business when it had been raised for other purposes and with the expectation it would be run fenced.

It has completely lacked transparency and it looks like they have gone to great lengths to try and avoid scrutiny.

Spending the money on something else though doesn’t strike me as criminal unless those accused re benefitting. I guess there is a chance the motor home could be the issue, but it was parked on murrells mums driveway so not exactly hidden

[He's here!]

Beattie released without charge. As per murrell.

I was wondering why they have been arrested and why not just helping with enquiries. Is it because they said no and therefore had to be arrested to be taken in? Or is it just standard practice.

Like Ozy I don’t think there will be charges. Doesn’t mean something fishy hasn’t gone on, it’s just whether it’s criminal and with a likelihood of a conviction.

I don’t think Yousaf can suspend murrell and Beattie just in case sturgeon is next to be arrested.

Not a case of if but when Sturgeon is questioned surely. She's the only one of the named officers on the SNP accounts registered with the Electoral Commission who hasn't been.

[grunt]

It has completely lacked transparency and it looks like they have gone to great lengths to try and avoid scrutiny.

Yeah. Explaining it in the audited accounts was certainly "great lengths to try and avoid scrutiny". :greengrin

[Skol]

Yeah. Explaining it in the audited accounts was certainly "great lengths to try and avoid scrutiny". :greengrin

Like when they said the money was earmarked instead of ringfenced and stated £235k had been spent already in Indyref2. Remind me when it is taking place?

[grunt]

Like when they said the money was earmarked instead of ringfenced and stated £235k had been spent already in Indyref2. Remind me when it is taking place?
I'm not saying whether they're right or wrong, (I don't know), I'm just pointing out that they've hardly been secretive about it, having a note in the financial statements explaining what they've done. The point I was answering was about avoiding scrutiny.

Edit to add, did you contribute to this fund personally?

[Skol]

I'm not saying whether they're right or wrong, (I don't know), I'm just pointing out that they've hardly been secretive about it, having a note in the financial statements explaining what they've done. The point I was answering was about avoiding scrutiny.

Edit to add, did you contribute to this fund personally?

But the accounts show they have been secretive about it

Not sure what the relevance of my contribution or lack thereof has to do with it. I didn’t buy any of the dodgy Ppe either.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm not saying whether they're right or wrong, (I don't know), I'm just pointing out that they've hardly been secretive about it, having a note in the financial statements explaining what they've done. The point I was answering was about avoiding scrutiny.

Edit to add, did you contribute to this fund personally?

The treasurer left because he couldn't look at the books, that's pretty secretive

[grunt]

Not sure what the relevance of my contribution or lack thereof has to do with it. I didn’t buy any of the dodgy Ppe either.
The PPE money was our tax money that the Tories gave to their friends. This is money donated on request by the supporters of a political party you're apparently not a member of and apparently don't vote for, who have (allegedly - I don't quite know what the charges are as they haven't been made yet) decided to use the money for other, related but apparently slightly different purposes. So what?

So not public money, not your money, it's not been stolen AFAICS, and I'm wondering why you're so upset about it.

[grunt]

The treasurer left because he couldn't look at the books, that's pretty secretiveSays who? Maybe he couldn't be trusted? (I don't know).

[grunt]

But the accounts show they have been secretive about it:faf:

Apologies for laughing but that really is the best accounting joke I've seen in a long time.

[Stairway 2 7]

Says who? Maybe he couldn't be trusted? (I don't know).

Says him. The treasurer couldn't be trusted with the books of the company he was treasurer of okkk. Was the press officer that quit lying to when he said management lied and were secretive about membership figures, Humza too as he said he wasn't told.

[grunt]

Says him. The treasurer couldn't be trusted with the books of the company he was treasurer of okkk. Was the press officer that quit lying to when he said management lied and were secretive about membership figures, Humza too as he said he wasn't told.
I have no idea, I was merely speculating. You could well be right.

[CropleyWasGod]

Says him. The treasurer couldn't be trusted with the books of the company he was treasurer of okkk. Was the press officer that quit lying to when he said management lied and were secretive about membership figures, Humza too as he said he wasn't told.

Wouldn't be the first time that's happened. :greengrin

[degenerated]

But the accounts show they have been secretive about it

Not sure what the relevance of my contribution or lack thereof has to do with it. I didn’t buy any of the dodgy Ppe either.Maybe not, but you helped pay for it.

[Stairway 2 7]

Wouldn't be the first time that's happened. :greengrin

Members of the NEC also quit due to lack of transparency. Press officer quit, Humza said he didn't know about member numbers ect.

Is everyone lying or has there been secrecy, I know what I believe

[CropleyWasGod]

Members of the NEC also quit due to lack of transparency. Press officer quit, Humza said he didn't know about member numbers ect.

Is everyone lying or has there been secrecy, I know what I believe

Did you see the smiley? :wink:

coff.... McGarry......

[Scotty Leither]

I’ve never seen such hysterical reporting from BBC Shortbread on such a scale since late May 2016.

[CropleyWasGod]

:faf:

Apologies for laughing but that really is the best accounting joke I've seen in a long time.

It's not the highest of bars, to be fair.

[Skol]

The PPE money was our tax money that the Tories gave to their friends. This is money donated on request by the supporters of a political party you're apparently not a member of and apparently don't vote for, who have (allegedly - I don't quite know what the charges are as they haven't been made yet) decided to use the money for other, related but apparently slightly different purposes. So what?

So not public money, not your money, it's not been stolen AFAICS, and I'm wondering why you're so upset about it.

I am not sure why you believe I am upset.

Concerned about the way the snp have been run especially as they are our political leaders and are leading the campaign for a significant change in circumstances

Are you really of the belief that this is all normal and nothing to see here?

[Jack]

I am not sure why you believe I am upset.

Concerned about the way the snp have been run especially as they are our political leaders and are leading the campaign for a significant change in circumstances

Are you really of the belief that this is all normal and nothing to see here?

I can't speak for grunt. I'm an independence supporter and I've voted SNP for a while. I was also quite privileged to be one of the first civil servants to work with NS when they came into power. It was a breath of fresh air compared with the previous incumbents!

Like balloons!



They've let me down; they've let the country down, they've let their party faithful down, but worst of all, they've let themselves down.

[grunt]

Are you really of the belief that this is all normal and nothing to see here?


They've let me down; they've let the country down, they've let their party faithful down, but worst of all, they've let themselves down.I'm waiting to see the evidence and the charges.

[He's here!]

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/58F2/production/_129407722_times-page-001.jpg


https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/A712/production/_129407724_w1f8j2xtzygaaaabjru5erkjggg.jpg

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/kate-forbes-warns-snp-is-facing-a-critical-moment-amid-turmoil-4109431

Forbes chips in.


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[He's here!]

SNP will be in trouble without action, says Kate Forbes - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-65312186)

Forbes positioning herself as the guardian angel to ultimately emerge from the wreckage of Sturgeonism?

I've also wondered whether Angus Robertson had wind of the impending trainwreck and decided to bide his time on a leadership bid, although I doubt his strong association with the old regime would do him any favours now.

Regan meanwhile...

Ash Regan backs SNP suspension for those involved in police probe | The National (https://www.thenational.scot/news/23463516.ash-regan-backs-snp-suspension-involved-police-probe/)

[Santa Cruz]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/kate-forbes-warns-snp-is-facing-a-critical-moment-amid-turmoil-4109431

Forbes chips in.


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...again. She's biding. :wink:

[Smartie]

...again. She's biding. :wink:

I think she needs to be a bit careful if she is indeed biding, which it appears she is.

There’s biding, and then there’s undermining the present incumbent and the “previously popular” previous regime at every turn.

[Ozyhibby]

I think she needs to be a bit careful if she is indeed biding, which it appears she is.

There’s biding, and then there’s undermining the present incumbent and the “previously popular” previous regime at every turn.

She has been very supportive so far.


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[He's here!]

No 'innocent until proven guilty' leeway for the campervan...straight to the lock-up :greengrin

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/481C/production/_129406481_record.png

[Berwickhibby]

No 'innocent until proven guilty' leeway for the campervan...straight to the lock-up :greengrin

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/481C/production/_129406481_record.png

Something is not right imho, the campervan/alleged battle bus :faf: is property of the SNP and therefore should be returned to its lawful owner and not kept at public expense in a secure yard. I can only assume that there is a legal question over ownership ie someone else has registered it as their property on V5 log book/insurance and it’s now evidence.

[Ozyhibby]

No 'innocent until proven guilty' leeway for the campervan...straight to the lock-up :greengrin

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/481C/production/_129406481_record.png

Can anyone explain why the bus would need to be impounded? It belongs to the SNP.


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[Santa Cruz]

Something is not right imho, the campervan/alleged battle bus :faf: is property of the SNP and therefore should be returned to its lawful owner and not kept at public expense in a secure yard. I can only assume that there is a legal question over ownership ie someone else has registered it as their property on V5 log book/insurance and it’s now evidence.

Could it no just be as likely that it's something as simple as they never renewed the road tax? I don't drive so not sure if it needs taxed if abandoned on a driveway.

[Ozyhibby]

Could it no just be as likely that it's something as simple as they never renewed the road tax? I don't drive so not sure if it needs taxed if abandoned on a driveway.

No tax needed if it’s on a driveway. It’s a bit of a mystery why the bus is locked up.


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[Berwickhibby]

Could it no just be as likely that it's something as simple as they never renewed the road tax? I don't drive so not sure if it needs taxed if abandoned on a driveway.

If the owner/registered keeper had completed the SORN of Road request it could remain on the drive quite legally without paying for a Road Fund Licence (tax). The vehicle was seized and not returned to the owner and is in a secure compound suggests its evidence.

[Jack]

I'm waiting to see the evidence and the charges.

So am I. But its not just the legality of it all. It's the fact that the SNP hierarchy have allowed themselves to get into this situation is disappointing. When the questions were first raised they should have been in the position to say 'there you go, there's the information right there'.

For example, if it were Hibs, I'd expect the owner and board to know who the auditor is and if there's a problem what has been done to resolve it.

The opposition parties and MSM have been itching for the opportunity to call crisis on the SNP. They weren't going to pass on an opportunity like this!

[grunt]

Missed this yesterday. This is a tweet from the current UK Foreign Secretary, one of the Great Offices of State. Just let that sink in.

https://twitter.com/JamesCleverly/status/1648325988705525760?s=20

[degenerated]

Missed this yesterday. This is a tweet from the current UK Foreign Secretary, one of the Great Offices of State. Just let that sink in.

https://twitter.com/JamesCleverly/status/1648325988705525760?s=20Has there ever been anyone named so ironically

[Smartie]

Missed this yesterday. This is a tweet from the current UK Foreign Secretary, one of the Great Offices of State. Just let that sink in.

https://twitter.com/JamesCleverly/status/1648325988705525760?s=20

I actually thought that was quite funny.

[grunt]

I actually thought that was quite funny.It demonstrates a significant dumbing down in the quality of political discourse. I want my leaders to be above such ****.

[Ozyhibby]

I think she needs to be a bit careful if she is indeed biding, which it appears she is.

There’s biding, and then there’s undermining the present incumbent and the “previously popular” previous regime at every turn.

https://twitter.com/_kateforbes/status/1648612320585695232?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[AgentDaleCooper]

has anyone been charged? is it possible that this investigation has been going on for two years and they haven't found anything really solid, so they're now just 'shaking the tree' in a final bid to see what falls out?

(not claiming that this is the case - I just saw someone on FB who is staunchly Labour and Unionist suggesting this was the case, having had dealings with the police in 'political' situations himself)

[Ozyhibby]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/holyrood-sources/id1673972192?i=1000609602280


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[147lothian]

has anyone been charged? is it possible that this investigation has been going on for two years and they haven't found anything really solid, so they're now just 'shaking the tree' in a final bid to see what falls out?

(not claiming that this is the case - I just saw someone on FB who is staunchly Labour and Unionist suggesting this was the case, having had dealings with the police in 'political' situations himself)

Two weeks after the arrest of the SNP chief executive, outside the home he shares with Nicola Sturgeon now the treasurer Colin Beatie, it looks like this won't be the last arrest, the point is that no is going to be arrested without reasonable grounds for an arrest.

The SNP has been a closed shop for a very long time, the first minister was of course married to the chief executive, Beattie's predecessor resigned because he said he wasn't getting the information he needed to do his job as party treasurer.

This all indicates that the SNP is corrupt and senior members have been using party funds for their own gain, it will all come out when the report is sent to the Procurator Fiscal.

[Ozyhibby]

Two weeks after the arrest of the SNP chief executive, outside the home he shares with Nicola Sturgeon now the treasurer Colin Beatie, it looks like this won't be the last arrest, the point is that no is going to be arrested without reasonable grounds for an arrest.

The SNP has been a closed shop for a very long time, the first minister was of course married to the chief executive, Beattie's predecessor resigned because he said he wasn't getting the information he needed to do his job as party treasurer.

This all indicates that the SNP is corrupt and senior members have been using party funds for their own gain, it will all come out when the report is sent to the Procurator Fiscal.

That last paragraph.[emoji23] You must be deep inside the investigation to know that?


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[ronaldo7]

Two weeks after the arrest of the SNP chief executive, outside the home he shares with Nicola Sturgeon now the treasurer Colin Beatie, it looks like this won't be the last arrest, the point is that no is going to be arrested without reasonable grounds for an arrest.

The SNP has been a closed shop for a very long time, the first minister was of course married to the chief executive, Beattie's predecessor resigned because he said he wasn't getting the information he needed to do his job as party treasurer.

This all indicates that the SNP is corrupt and senior members have been using party funds for their own gain, it will all come out when the report is sent to the Procurator Fiscal.

The last paragraph could get you into trouble. 😆

[147lothian]

That last paragraph.[emoji23] You must be deep inside the investigation to know that?


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I don't have to be inside the investigation to know that this is what it indicates, if of course the SNP has nothing to hide and there has been no corruption they will all be vindicated, we just have to wait until the report goes to the Prosecutor Fiscal.

[Jack]

Two weeks after the arrest of the SNP chief executive, outside the home he shares with Nicola Sturgeon now the treasurer Colin Beatie, it looks like this won't be the last arrest, the point is that no is going to be arrested without reasonable grounds for an arrest.

The SNP has been a closed shop for a very long time, the first minister was of course married to the chief executive, Beattie's predecessor resigned because he said he wasn't getting the information he needed to do his job as party treasurer.

This all indicates that the SNP is corrupt and senior members have been using party funds for their own gain, it will all come out when the report is sent to the Procurator Fiscal.

Why use party funds to get a few Bob when they could have done the same as the torys and given millions in government contracts to their mates?

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65321409

Hard to take an in with the bricks Sturgeonite like Robison seriously when she claims the party needs to get its house in order. In fact it's hard to take her seriously full stop and I still find it hard to fathom Yousaf's thinking in giving her such a high profile government presence.

[superfurryhibby]

The story is unbelievable. I don't doubt that the Murrell-Sturgeon junta had far, far too much power within the SNP, but I can't imagine they would seek personal gain from financial wrong doing and party finances. It's smacks of stitch up and smear.

Fascinating to see how it unfolds and how damaging this will prove for the case for independence.

[Smartie]

Can anyone confirm - the £600k in question - was this the money donated by those Weir folk who won the lottery?

Was there anyone else involved?

[marinello59]

Can anyone confirm - the £600k in question - was this the money donated by those Weir folk who won the lottery?

Was there anyone else involved?

No.
It was raised on a stand-alone website designed to attract non SNP supporting Yes voters. And it stated the money would be ring-fenced.

[Ozyhibby]

The story is unbelievable. I don't doubt that the Murrell-Sturgeon junta had far, far too much power within the SNP, but I can't imagine they would seek personal gain from financial wrong doing and party finances. It's smacks of stitch up and smear.

Fascinating to see how it unfolds and how damaging this will prove for the case for independence.

They live pretty modestly for a couple who would be in it for financial gain. I think the chances of that are very very remote.


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[Ozyhibby]

No.
It was raised on a stand-alone website designed to attract non SNP supporting Yes voters. And it stated the money would be ring-fenced.

Is there a link to that?


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[cabbageandribs1875]

jail time beckons

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/341719074_761093168981703_2345195900973957047_n.jp g?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5cd70e&_nc_ohc=FGf5b9FLdtMAX-2X-j0&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfC25hyfq3rjMQahuKJeZCZYRO0n-Vrwx6qO2J5SWhrKpA&oe=64444951

[marinello59]

Is there a link to that?


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The website was ref.Scot but it’s long gone now I think. i’m sure there will be screenshots etc available if you Google it.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/15344728.snp-all-the-money-raised-on-scotref-website-is-ringfenced-to-fight-a-future-independence-referendum/

[ronaldo7]

The website was ref.Scot but it’s long gone now I think. i’m sure there will be screenshots etc available if you Google it.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/15344728.snp-all-the-money-raised-on-scotref-website-is-ringfenced-to-fight-a-future-independence-referendum/

Last para.

An Electoral Commission spokeswoman said:" The Electoral Commission regulates the rules on political finance set out in the Political Parties, Elections and Referendums Act 2000 (PPERA), including those relating to the permissibility and reporting of donations to political parties. The purposes for which parties seek, obtain and use the donations they have received are matters for that party"

[superfurryhibby]

They live pretty modestly for a couple who would be in it for financial gain. I think the chances of that are very very remote.


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I've not really followed this thread and rarely watch news on tv (maybe wee bit on the radio). I'm amazed how much can pass me by in the world and I feel no loss for that.

So, why is this happening? How could Murrell allow himself to get into this position?

[Stairway 2 7]

Colin Beattie resigns as treasurer and all committees, saves Humza I suppose

[Ozyhibby]

I've not really followed this thread and rarely watch news on tv (maybe we bit on the radio). I'm amazed how much can pass me by in the world and I feel no loss for that.

So, why is this happening? How could Murrell allow himself to get into this position?

It’s difficult to say what sort of situation he is in? For all we know he has done nothing illegal and the main problem is a lack of transparency in the party. That’s a party issue though and for them to sort out, not Police Scotland.


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[Ozyhibby]

Colin Beattie resigns as treasurer and all committees, saves Humza I suppose

Good, it’s a start. Hopefully it was Humza who instigated it.


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[makaveli1875]

Who will be under arrest next ? Sturgeon must surely be on the list

[Mibbes Aye]

It’s difficult to say what sort of situation he is in? For all we know he has done nothing illegal and the main problem is a lack of transparency in the party. That’s a party issue though and for them to sort out, not Police Scotland.


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What we do know is the police investigation started in 2021 and is ongoing. That tends not to happen with “party issues” does it? That suggests at least some suspicion of criminality. Still, they may not find the requisite evidence, we will just have to watch and read (across every media platform 😀) and see.

[He's here!]

What we do know is the police investigation started in 2021 and is ongoing. That tends not to happen with “party issues” does it? That suggests at least some suspicion of criminality. Still, they may not find the requisite evidence, we will just have to watch and read (across every media platform 😀) and see.

Beattie wouldn't have resigned for no reason.

Plenty more mileage in this sorry saga I suspect.

[Ozyhibby]

Beattie wouldn't have resigned for no reason.

Plenty more mileage in this sorry saga I suspect.

He resigned for a reason. He is under investigation therefore he can’t do the role. Not difficult.


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[Ozyhibby]

What we do know is the police investigation started in 2021 and is ongoing. That tends not to happen with “party issues” does it? That suggests at least some suspicion of criminality. Still, they may not find the requisite evidence, we will just have to watch and read (across every media platform [emoji3]) and see.

It’s only a party issue if the investigation stops is what I meant. If there are charges then that’s different.
Sure it’s fun for opposition supporters just now but eventually there will need to be a specific charge brought. Hopefully soon.
Long time till an election though.


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[He's here!]

He resigned for a reason. He is under investigation therefore he can’t do the role. Not difficult.


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Nothing preventing him doing the role if he's not been charged or suspended. He was expected at Holyrood for a meeting today but sent his apologies.

[Mibbes Aye]

It’s only a party issue if the investigation stops is what I meant. If there are charges then that’s different.
Sure it’s fun for opposition supporters just now but eventually there will need to be a specific charge brought. Hopefully soon.
Long time till an election though.


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We can but hope for a resolution. It’s a farce that taxpayers’ money, our money, needs spent establishing whether these people are bent or not.

[archie]

Nothing preventing him doing the role if he's not been charged or suspended. He was expected at Holyrood for a meeting today but sent his apologies.

I think that would be pretty tough TBH. Given that the party appears to be adopting a no suspension policy (unlike before) it would look awful

[Hibrandenburg]

We can but hope for a resolution. It’s a farce that taxpayers’ money, our money, needs spent establishing whether these people are bent or not.

If they're bent then it's tax payers money well spent bringing them to justice, if they're not bent then questions need to be asked about how this investigation is being conducted.

Just out of interest, how many Tories have been arrested in connection to all the corruption accusations flying around?

[He's here!]

I think that would be pretty tough TBH. Given that the party appears to be adopting a no suspension policy (unlike before) it would look awful

The no suspension U-turn already looks awful. Basically if you were in Sturgeon's inner cabal you're innocent until proven guilty. If not you get suspended.

[Mibbes Aye]

If they're bent then it's tax payers money well spent bringing them to justice, if they're not bent then questions need to be asked about how this investigation is being conducted.

Just out of interest, how many Tories have been arrested in connection to all the corruption accusations flying around?

First paragraph, first sentence, I agree completely.

First paragraph, second sentence, why and what questions? How would you know how the investigation is being conducted?

Second paragraph, come on! That’s desperate deflection and doesn’t fool anybody. Anyway, there is a whole thread for looking at Tory wrongdoing, I don’t think you are a stranger to it :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

Shona Robinson says a bad culture was allowed to develop and the SNP has to get its house in order. She refuses to blame Sturgeon although I'm not sure who is to blame then for the bad culture and house not being in order

https://mobile.twitter.com/ConnorGillies/status/1648635892909723650

[Mibbes Aye]

Another question that the SNP needs to answer, for probity’s sake.

Was Sturgeon appointed acting SNP treasurer between Chapman going and Beattie being re-appointed?

Is being First Minister, party leader and party treasurer appropriate? If nothing else why would the FM be taking time out of their elected duties to run the finances of what we used to be told was a party with a huge membership?

[Ozyhibby]

Another question that the SNP needs to answer, for probity’s sake.

Was Sturgeon appointed acting SNP treasurer between Chapman going and Beattie being re-appointed?

Is being First Minister, party leader and party treasurer appropriate? If nothing else why would the FM be taking time out of their elected duties to run the finances of what we used to be told was a party with a huge membership?

Yousaf is acting treasurer today.


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[Ozyhibby]

First paragraph, first sentence, I agree completely.

First paragraph, second sentence, why and what questions? How would you know how the investigation is being conducted?

Second paragraph, come on! That’s desperate deflection and doesn’t fool anybody. Anyway, there is a whole thread for looking at Tory wrongdoing, I don’t think you are a stranger to it :greengrin

Don’t see you on that thread very often though.[emoji6]


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[Santa Cruz]

Shona Robinson says a bad culture was allowed to develop and the SNP has to get its house in order. She refuses to blame Sturgeon although I'm not sure who is to blame then for the bad culture and house not being in order

https://mobile.twitter.com/ConnorGillies/status/1648635892909723650

I doubt everyone has played a part in the culture allowed to develop. People did ask questions. Imagine being Joanna Cherry and listening to that.

[Ozyhibby]

We can but hope for a resolution. It’s a farce that taxpayers’ money, our money, needs spent establishing whether these people are bent or not.

How would you like to fund the criminal justice system?


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[Hibrandenburg]

First paragraph, first sentence, I agree completely.

First paragraph, second sentence, why and what questions? How would you know how the investigation is being conducted?

Second paragraph, come on! That’s desperate deflection and doesn’t fool anybody. Anyway, there is a whole thread for looking at Tory wrongdoing, I don’t think you are a stranger to it :greengrin

I think if after all this nobody gets charged or no wrong doing can be proven, then it's fair to ask what the motivation behind the accusations were and why this investigation has been conducted in the manner it has.

Maybe I am deflecting or maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate, I've never voted for the SNP so consider myself more a supporter of independence rather than an SNP supporter so I'm not sure why I'd want to deflect and I honestly don't know if any Tories have had forensic tents erected on their front lawn or had members arrested before questioning? I think wanting a level playing field is relevant on any thread where there's suspected corruption.

[Mibbes Aye]

Don’t see you on that thread very often though.[emoji6]


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But when I do, I post brilliantly :cb Anyway, it is a bit dull - it’s essentially a big pile-on but no one seems to have sussed out there’s no one at the bottom of the pile :greengrin

Fair point though. Mind you, I have never posted on the Ukraine thread or the trans rights thread despite them being pretty huge.

[Mibbes Aye]

How would you like to fund the criminal justice system?


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In person, you mean?

[Ozyhibby]

In person, you mean?

No, I mean if not taxpayers money then how? You know that though.[emoji23]


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[Berwickhibby]

I think if after all this nobody gets charged or no wrong doing can be proven, then it's fair to ask what the motivation behind the accusations were and why this investigation has been conducted in the manner it has.

Maybe I am deflecting or maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate, I've never voted for the SNP so consider myself more a supporter of independence rather than an SNP supporter so I'm not sure why I'd want to deflect and I honestly don't know if any Tories have had forensic tents erected on their front lawn or had members arrested before questioning? I think wanting a level playing field is relevant on any thread where there's suspected corruption.

Suspects need to be arrested to be interviewed under caution …ie questioning 🙄 I imagine he will have been informed to attend a police station with his solicitor at a set time.

[Mibbes Aye]

Yousaf is acting treasurer today.


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I get that the Electoral Commission rules guide the party leader to step in if it is not a seamless transition.

But given the levels of iffiness now and when Chapman resigned, would it not have been much better for them to have appointed someone else, even as an interim?

[Mibbes Aye]

No, I mean if not taxpayers money then how? You know that though.[emoji23]


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Okay. I think it’s a farce that the SNP are so incapable of transparently managing their party finances that it requires a two-year police investigation, at a cost to the public purse.

I shouldn’t have been so naive though. After all the evidence was there in their incapable managing of public services, again at a cost to the public purse.

[grunt]

I get that the Electoral Commission rules guide the party leader to step in if it is not a seamless transition.

But given the levels of iffiness now and when Chapman resigned, would it not have been much better for them to have appointed someone else, even as an interim?You mean, they should not obey the Electoral Commission rules? Interesting idea.

[grunt]

Okay. I think it’s a farce that the SNP are so incapable of transparently managing their party finances that it requires a two-year police investigation, at a cost to the public purse.

I shouldn’t have been so naive though. After all the evidence was there in their incapable managing of public services, again at a cost to the public purse.
You make a mockery of every thread you post on. It's the SNP's fault that the police have spent two years without making a charge? Ok.

[Ozyhibby]

Okay. I think it’s a farce that the SNP are so incapable of transparently managing their party finances that it requires a two-year police investigation, at a cost to the public purse.

I shouldn’t have been so naive though. After all the evidence was there in their incapable managing of public services, again at a cost to the public purse.

Let’s wait and see what the police investigation comes up with. Can’t be long now before we see some charges then we will have more info.


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[Mibbes Aye]

You mean, they should not obey the Electoral Commission rules? Interesting idea.

Good grief, how hard is it? I asked whether it might have been in their best interest to have clear blue water between the roles, given the way things have panned out so far.

[Berwickhibby]

Let’s wait and see what the police investigation comes up with. Can’t be long now before we see some charges then we will have more info.


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Or there is no evidence of any criminal activity but a full investigation has cleared them of any impropriety without usual cover up accusations.

[Mibbes Aye]

You make a mockery of every thread you post on. It's the SNP's fault that the police have spent two years without making a charge? Ok.

No. It’s the SNP’s fault they are under investigation in the first place. Otherwise things wouldn’t have got to this stage. The police are only doing their job, in the full glare of the media spotlight admittedly.

As for ‘mockery’ spare me the melodrama. You can’t even bring yourself to admit Douglas Chapman resigned because despite being treasurer he didn’t get to see where the money was. Instead you wander down cul-de-sacs about how just because it was reported in the Sunday Mail it can’t be true, or you start taking offence at quotation marks or whatever.

I appreciate that you are heavily-invested in all being well in SNP world and all being the fault of everyone else, and that is a tough place to be. But resorting to some sort of circular denial mentality out of Kafka does nothing for the discussion.

[One Day Soon]

No. It’s the SNP’s fault they are under investigation in the first place. Otherwise things wouldn’t have got to this stage. The police are only doing their job, in the full glare of the media spotlight admittedly.

As for ‘mockery’ spare me the melodrama. You can’t even bring yourself to admit Douglas Chapman resigned because despite being treasurer he didn’t get to see where the money was. Instead you wander down cul-de-sacs about how just because it was reported in the Sunday Mail it can’t be true, or you start taking offence at quotation marks or whatever.

I appreciate that you are heavily-invested in all being well in SNP world and all being the fault of everyone else, and that is a tough place to be. But resorting to some sort of circular denial mentality out of Kafka does nothing for the discussion.


It must be very hard for people who are so heavily invested in something to be able to see/admit what looks like matters very damaging to that thing. Mind you Cherry, Salmond et al seem more enthusiastic about getting the disinfectant out.

Robison's position is completely untenable however. 'Things shouldn't have been allowed to come to this' says best mate of person who allowed things to come to this (and that's a charitable description). You could almost imagine she hadn't been a senior Minister and Sturgeon's bestie throughout Sturgeon's time as FM.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/glennbbc/status/1648729102667350020?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A
New treasurer to be appointed asap.


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[Smartie]

Shona Robinson says a bad culture was allowed to develop and the SNP has to get its house in order. She refuses to blame Sturgeon although I'm not sure who is to blame then for the bad culture and house not being in order

https://mobile.twitter.com/ConnorGillies/status/1648635892909723650

FWIW I think that this sounds closest to being an adequate description of what has been going on to me.

It’ll be for others to decide whether it’s corrupt or criminal or the like.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/glennbbc/status/1648729102667350020?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A
New treasurer to be appointed asap.


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Humza interim treasurer then the NEC will choose the next one. That's two treasurers in a row that will be unelected

[Santa Cruz]

Humza interim treasurer then the NEC will choose the next one. That's two treasurers in a row that will be unelected

He could do the right thing and appoint Cherry, at least he would have confidence she'd carry it out properly. Also makes up for her being treated so badly when she was right all along. It would at least be an attempt to look like he's trying to unify the party and distance himself from NS for presiding over a poor culture. You can see the strain on his face, I don't know why but I actually feel a bit sorry for him.

[marinello59]

He could do the right thing and appoint Cherry, at least he would have confidence she'd carry it out properly. Also makes up for her being treated so badly when she was right all along. It would at least be an attempt to look like he's trying to unify the party and distance himself from NS for presiding over a poor culture. You can see the strain on his face, I don't know why but I actually feel a bit sorry for him.

I wouldn’t worry too much, he won’t be leader for very long, then he can relax.

[He's here!]

I think if after all this nobody gets charged or no wrong doing can be proven, then it's fair to ask what the motivation behind the accusations were and why this investigation has been conducted in the manner it has.

Maybe I am deflecting or maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate, I've never voted for the SNP so consider myself more a supporter of independence rather than an SNP supporter so I'm not sure why I'd want to deflect and I honestly don't know if any Tories have had forensic tents erected on their front lawn or had members arrested before questioning? I think wanting a level playing field is relevant on any thread where there's suspected corruption.

It's wheesht for indy taken to extremes, both among Sturgeon's former disciples (Robison being exhibit A with her Boris Johnson-esque attempts to emerge blameless from a mess she helped to make) and those who simply can't bear to take off the blinkers and at least pause to re-examine their unconditional support for the SNP as an exemplar vehicle for independence.

[Santa Cruz]

I wouldn’t worry too much, he won’t be leader for very long, then he can relax.

You're probably right. I might be losing it, am now feeling sorry for SNP leaders. My Daughter accused me of being a Lib Dem the other week, just cos I said I liked Christine Jardine, I can't even mind what she was saying for me to come out with that. :confused:

[greenginger]

Why use party funds to get a few Bob when they could have done the same as the torys and given millions in government contracts to their mates?


What about a multi million £ ferry contract going to an SNP mega donner :greengrin

[Skol]

I'm waiting to see the evidence and the charges.

Granted we don’t know what the police evidence is, but there is sufficient information in the public domain to form a view.


Is there a link to that?

Someone shared a link last week to quite a detailed summary of the whole thing. I didn’t store it. I didn’t recognise who wrote it, but my guess is it will be dismissed as written by a unionist.

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[147lothian]

What about a multi million £ ferry contract going to an SNP mega donner :greengrin

shhhhhhh get with the program, nothing to see the SNP are motoring on!

[Berwickhibby]

What about a multi million £ ferry contract going to an SNP mega donner :greengrin

:rules::rules: come on Greenginger, Hibs.net Holy Ground rules…don’t mention the SNP incompetence with the ferries :wink:

[Glory Lurker]

:rules::rules: come on Greenginger, Hibs.net Holy Ground rules…don’t mention the SNP incompetence with the ferries :wink:

How come it gets mentioned every day, then?

[Jack]

What about a multi million £ ferry contract going to an SNP mega donner :greengrin

I can find no reports of Ferguson Marine ever donating to the SNP and McColl, the previous owner, said he never did.

A balls up? Yup. But no suggestion of a fast track type scenario.

[Berwickhibby]

How come it gets mentioned every day, then?

Probably because posters recognise the utter incompetence over the ferries 🤷*♂️ I assume

[Stairway 2 7]

Kate forbes first column in the national

https://www.thenational.scot/politics/23464872.achieving-equality-opportunity-community-needs-rhetoric/

[Mcbizz1998]

Hearts and the SNP falling apart at the same
time. What a time to be alive lads!

[WhileTheChief..]

It must be very hard for people who are so heavily invested in something to be able to see/admit what looks like matters very damaging to that thing. Mind you Cherry, Salmond et al seem more enthusiastic about getting the disinfectant out.

Robison's position is completely untenable however. 'Things shouldn't have been allowed to come to this' says best mate of person who allowed things to come to this (and that's a charitable description). You could almost imagine she hadn't been a senior Minister and Sturgeon's bestie throughout Sturgeon's time as FM.

They've both talked a lot of sense recently, Salmond especially so. The SNP should listen to him.

Trying to pretend everything is fine or someone else's fault is only adding to the impression that they're trying to cover stuff up.

They're also tying themselves in knots saying they have to improve transparency and governance within their party, whilst at the same time saying there was nothing wrong with it under NS for the past decade!

[Skol]

I have just perused the equivalent thread across the road. Even the most ardent snp faithful from there are acknowledging this isn’t good and it’s hard to find backing for the snp

[archie]

I have just perused the equivalent thread across the road. Even the most ardent snp faithful from there are acknowledging this isn’t good and it’s hard to find backing for the snp

I was chatting yesterday to a pal who is an SNP member. They are enraged by what is happening.

[bawheid]

Not really followed this story much. Wonder if folks can help me with a few things.

Has it been established why the police needed to erect a blue forensic evidence tent on Sturgeon’s front lawn?

If the investigation has been going on two years, why are the police raiding addresses at 0700 in the morning? Is that in case those living at the addresses get wind of an impending raid and try and hide evidence? Maybe by burying in the front garden?

It seems a coincidence that the latest dawn raid would take place on the same day the new FM was to launch his premiership in parliament. Could they not have done it the day before, or after? Presumably it had to be done at that particular sunrise in case yon treasurer bloke buried evidence in his front garden?

Finally, does anyone have any idea what the charges will be? Maroon balloons across the city got away with borrowing money from themselves for years.

Cheers.

[Glory Lurker]

Probably because posters recognise the utter incompetence over the ferries 🤷*♂️ I assume

So it is allowed to mention it after all?

[Hibrandenburg]

Not really followed this story much. Wonder if folks can help me with a few things.

Has it been established why the police needed to erect a blue forensic evidence tent on Sturgeon’s front lawn?

If the investigation has been going on two years, why are the police raiding addresses at 0700 in the morning? Is that in case those living at the addresses get wind of an impending raid and try and hide evidence? Maybe by burying in the front garden?

It seems a coincidence that the latest dawn raid would take place on the same day the new FM was to launch his premiership in parliament. Could they not have done it the day before, or after? Presumably it had to be done at that particular sunrise in case yon treasurer bloke buried evidence in his front garden?

Finally, does anyone have any idea what the charges will be? Maroon balloons across the city got away with borrowing money from themselves for years.

Cheers.

Add to that we have the most corrupt British government in my lifetime now forbidding bilateral talks between Scottish representatives and their European partners and government ministers calling for the end of devolution in Scotland, if you're not concerned about democracy in Scotland then you really should be.

[ronaldo7]

So it is allowed to mention it after all?

They just don't know they're doing it. 😉

[Since90+2]

So it is allowed to mention it after all?

If that short debate between yourself and BH was a chess match, this response would be check mate 😄

[WhileTheChief..]

I was chatting yesterday to a pal who is an SNP member. They are enraged by what is happening.

This is the reaction I’d have expected of most SNP supporters, they’re the ones that have been let down the most.

That there is still so much support for NS seems ridiculous to me as an outsider looking in.

[Stairway 2 7]

Speculation from both sides is mind boggling. Surely best to wait and see what happens before having to backtrack. The line "I'm no lawyer and don't know the details but surely..." has been used by both to show its an injustice or that they are guilty

[greenginger]

I was chatting yesterday to a pal who is an SNP member. They are enraged by what is happening.

I’ve got a couple of mates who are long standing SNP members.

They ain’t mentioned politics in a month.

[Stairway 2 7]

A few people today going with Scotlands hospitals best in the uk well 26th,34th,38th

https://twitter.com/The_Dundonian/status/1648707355226394629
The_Dundonian
Honestly, that bloody Humza Yousaf making Scottish hospitals the best in the UK. How very dare he do such a good job? Bloody SNP doing things 100 times better than Labour in Wales and Tories in England

[Santa Cruz]

A few people today going with Scotlands hospitals best in the uk well 26th,34th,38th

https://twitter.com/The_Dundonian/status/1648707355226394629
The_Dundonian
Honestly, that bloody Humza Yousaf making Scottish hospitals the best in the UK. How very dare he do such a good job? Bloody SNP doing things 100 times better than Labour in Wales and Tories in England

Think we have done well in the scale of things. There's nearly 2,000 hospitals in the UK.

https://www.statista.com/statistics/949580/hospitals-in-united-kingdom/

I can only speak from my personal experience, I've had excellent care in the past at the Royal Infirmary. Just one example was I was due to have an op, I was gowned up and ready to be taken to theatre when the surgeon came out to speak to me personally to say they might have to cancel as he had just completed 2 back to back liver transplants. I was told they might be able to fit me in as they were assesing another patient who may not have been well enough to have surgery. He said I could wait and see or go home and they would reschedule. I decided to wait as I was all psyched up. They managed to operate that day, about 8 hours after the op when I was on the day bed ward the surgeon came to speak to me to check on how I was just before heading to a confernce in Europe. I sent him a letter afterwards to give him a photo of my barely noticeable scar to reassure future patients having the same op as the scarring is in an obvious place. He sent me a hand written note back. The level of dedication, time and genuine compassion he gave me was unbelievable. I googled him a while back, he now trains other consultants all over the UK.

[Jones28]

I was chatting yesterday to a pal who is an SNP member. They are enraged by what is happening.


I was a member until a couple of years ago when I had to cut my cloth significantly.

It is a disgrace things have come to this, and anyone found guilty of anything they should have the book thrown at them.

But in a society whos criminal justice system is built on the phrase "innocent until proven guilty", then I will suspend my judgement until then.

[Hiber-nation]

I was chatting yesterday to a pal who is an SNP member. They are enraged by what is happening.

Funnily enough I've just been chatting to a Labour member who is enraged by what is happening to his party.

[He's here!]

I was a member until a couple of years ago when I had to cut my cloth significantly.

It is a disgrace things have come to this, and anyone found guilty of anything they should have the book thrown at them.

But in a society whos criminal justice system is built on the phrase "innocent until proven guilty", then I will suspend my judgement until then.

Yousaf has only deployed that phrase because the police action involves the SNP hierarchy (ie those who pulled out all the stops to get him elected). It didn't apply previously to less high profile colleagues. Michelle Thomson wasn't even arrested but was immediately suspended for being investigated by the police.

He's too scared to suspend them in case Sturgeon gets arrested.

[Berwickhibby]

I did enjoy listening to Anas Sarwar showing up Yousaf at question time, Yousaf had the brass neck to suggest the Ferries are fine quoting statistics and saying new vessels are getting built. What really made me laugh was him suggesting that Sarwar using sound bites …coming from Mr Cliche and sound bite Humza that’s hilarious 😂

[Ozyhibby]

I did enjoy listening to Anas Sarwar showing up Yousaf at question time, Yousaf had the brass neck to suggest the Ferries are fine quoting statistics and saying new vessels are getting built. What really made me laugh was him suggesting that Sarwar using sound bites …coming from Mr Cliche and sound bite Humza that’s hilarious [emoji23]

I missed it today but come on. Your surely not suggesting that Yousaf is worse than Sarwar for sound bites? Especially ones that don’t even cut through? Mr ‘not interested in leave or remain, yes or no’ or his latest ‘lame duck FM’. Sarwar is an empty vessel. We’ll have to wait a bit longer to find out if Yousaf is but it’s not even close between the two of them.


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[Berwickhibby]

I missed it today but come on. Your surely not suggesting that Yousaf is worse than Sarwar for sound bites? Especially ones that don’t even cut through? Mr ‘not interested in leave or remain, yes or no’ or his latest ‘lame duck FM’. Sarwar is an empty vessel. We’ll have to wait a bit longer to find out if Yousaf is but it’s not even close between the two of them.


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Your kidding surely, every time Yousaf Opens his mouth a pre rehearsed sound bite or rehearsed blame someone else, rolls out.

[Santa Cruz]

I did enjoy listening to Anas Sarwar showing up Yousaf at question time, Yousaf had the brass neck to suggest the Ferries are fine quoting statistics and saying new vessels are getting built. What really made me laugh was him suggesting that Sarwar using sound bites …coming from Mr Cliche and sound bite Humza that’s hilarious 😂

He attacks the opposition for not providing solutions. I thought that was a Gov's job, with the opposition there to then scrutinise and question them on whether the solutions they implement have improved the situation.

[ronaldo7]

He attacks the opposition for not providing solutions. I thought that was a Gov's job, with the opposition there to then scrutinise and question them on whether the solutions they implement have improved the situation.

An alternative view would be that he offered to listen to other solutions from the third party of the parliament. None was forthcoming though.

[He's here!]

He attacks the opposition for not providing solutions. I thought that was a Gov's job, with the opposition there to then scrutinise and question them on whether the solutions they implement have improved the situation.

I hate PMQs and FMQs. Both pointless. PMQs is little more than theatrical insults dressed up as questions - or in the case of the SNP a chance to not even bother with a question, just make a mini speech about independence.

FMQs used to consist primarily of Sturgeon responding to pretty much any question with a variation of 'I won't be spoken to like that by a Tory/Labour/Lib Dem nonentity'. I'd imagine that as the continuity FM Yousaf will try to do similar.

[SickBoy32]

Not really followed this story much. Wonder if folks can help me with a few things.

Has it been established why the police needed to erect a blue forensic evidence tent on Sturgeon’s front lawn?

If the investigation has been going on two years, why are the police raiding addresses at 0700 in the morning? Is that in case those living at the addresses get wind of an impending raid and try and hide evidence? Maybe by burying in the front garden?

It seems a coincidence that the latest dawn raid would take place on the same day the new FM was to launch his premiership in parliament. Could they not have done it the day before, or after? Presumably it had to be done at that particular sunrise in case yon treasurer bloke buried evidence in his front garden?

Finally, does anyone have any idea what the charges will be? Maroon balloons across the city got away with borrowing money from themselves for years.

Cheers.

Good post

Like yourself, I haven't actively followed this story at all tbh (or politics more generally, since the Supreme Court farce before Xmas)

There may well be some wrong-doing within the SNP, however - I struggle to believe anyone can honestly say this isn't primarily a smear campaign in a desperate bid to derail independence, I mean the media coverage has been off the charts !!

As you've correctly detailed, arguably the most corrupt English government ever have done worse for years now, with far less media scrutiny and outrage

Sad state of affairs all round, but I guess this is just what happens when the press are firmly in the pockets of the nasty party

[Santa Cruz]

An alternative view would be that he offered to listen to other solutions from the third party of the parliament. None was forthcoming though.

You must have missed Jackie Baillie's q on Hospice's, she offered a solution which was to provide the exta funding the sector has repeatedly requested.

[Ozyhibby]

You must have missed Jackie Baillie's q on Hospice's, she offered a solution which was to provide the exta funding the sector has repeatedly requested.

Did she say what she would cut?


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[He's here!]

I missed it today but come on. Your surely not suggesting that Yousaf is worse than Sarwar for sound bites? Especially ones that don’t even cut through? Mr ‘not interested in leave or remain, yes or no’ or his latest ‘lame duck FM’. Sarwar is an empty vessel. We’ll have to wait a bit longer to find out if Yousaf is but it’s not even close between the two of them.


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The empty vessels Yousaf should be concerning himself with are the ferries which are sitting either unfinished (years after their 'launch' with painted-on windows) or out of use.

Lame duck FM is a decent enough sound bite as it's accurate. He's been left trying to claw his way out of a bomb crater by his predecessors.

[weecounty hibby]

You must have missed Jackie Baillie's q on Hospice's, she offered a solution which was to provide the exta funding the sector has repeatedly requested.
And she will also have said where these additional funds should come from? Labour are great at that, spend more money!!! But are happy to forget that Scotland unlike Westminster cannot borrow money. So usually its all about transferring money from one place to another, so someone loses while others win.

[Santa Cruz]

Did she say what she would cut?


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That's not her job to allocate funds. In the leadership contest did KF say what she was going to cut in order to finally pay social carer's £15p/h, when previously they didn't have enough funding when she was Finance Sec?

[weecounty hibby]

That's not her job to allocate funds. In the leadership contest did KF say what she was going to cut in order to finally pay social carer's £15p/h, when previously they didn't have enough funding when she was Finance Sec?

So she didn't offer a solution then, she just said spend more money. I want Hibs to win the league so they should spend more money on players. Nae idea where that money should come from but just spend more money. And don't forget Hibs in this scenario can't borrow any money!!

[Ozyhibby]

That's not her job to allocate funds. In the leadership contest did KF say what she was going to cut in order to finally pay social carer's £15p/h, when previously they didn't have enough funding when she was Finance Sec?

Actually in the Scottish Parliament if you have a budget proposal you have to say where you would cut.


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[Santa Cruz]

Actually in the Scottish Parliament if you have a budget proposal you have to say where you would cut.


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What did KF propose to cut? She was announcing a new policy on a ticket to get elected to head the SG.

[He's here!]

I hate PMQs and FMQs. Both pointless. PMQs is little more than theatrical insults dressed up as questions - or in the case of the SNP a chance to not even bother with a question, just make a mini speech about independence.

FMQs used to consist primarily of Sturgeon responding to pretty much any question with a variation of 'I won't be spoken to like that by a Tory/Labour/Lib Dem nonentity'. I'd imagine that as the continuity FM Yousaf will try to do similar.

In saying all that, this clip of Fergus Ewing putting the boot into the Greens did catch my eye:

https://twitter.com/HolyroodDaily/status/1649014056089448450?s=20

[Santa Cruz]

So she didn't offer a solution then, she just said spend more money. I want Hibs to win the league so they should spend more money on players. Nae idea where that money should come from but just spend more money. And don't forget Hibs in this scenario can't borrow any money!!

I don't think the limited time the opposition get to ask q's is the right place to help identify solutions imo. Is that not what the cross party parliamentary commitees are meant to do?

[Jones28]

Yousaf has only deployed that phrase because the police action involves the SNP hierarchy (ie those who pulled out all the stops to get him elected). It didn't apply previously to less high profile colleagues. Michelle Thomson wasn't even arrested but was immediately suspended for being investigated by the police.

He's too scared to suspend them in case Sturgeon gets arrested.

Thomson was suspended 7 years ago, and theres some ambiguity around whether she withdrew or was forcibly suspended.

As I say, as a former member and someone who is currently "in the huff", I'm hanging fire until investigations are completed.

[Jones28]

The empty vessels Yousaf should be concerning himself with are the ferries which are sitting either unfinished (years after their 'launch' with painted-on windows) or out of use.

Lame duck FM is a decent enough sound bite as it's accurate. He's been left trying to claw his way out of a bomb crater by his predecessors.

Ferries? Still?

[weecounty hibby]

I don't think the limited time the opposition get to ask q's is the right place to help identify solutions imo. Is that not what the cross party parliamentary commitees are meant to do?
So basically another soundbite from Baillie? She is a total ambulance chaser. Wherever there is a sick kid or a delayed operation she is there and isn't afraid to give out children's names etc in public either. I have no time for her whatsoever. Complete chancer who was all over congratulating the Glagow council women when they won their case, completely ignoring what Labour had done to them over the years.

There are politicians from all parties, not so many Tories mind, that I like but she is definitely not on the list

[Santa Cruz]

So basically another soundbite from Baillie? She is a total ambulance chaser. Wherever there is a sick kid or a delayed operation she is there and isn't afraid to give out children's names etc in public either. I have no time for her whatsoever. Complete chancer who was all over congratulating the Glagow council women when they won their case, completely ignoring what Labour had done to them over the years.

There are politicians from all parties, not so many Tories mind, that I like but she is definitely not on the list

I doubt the parent of any sick child she is speaking on behalf of would share your opinion, suspect she would also need their consent to name them publicly. I think Labour have acknowledged how badly they handled the Glasgow council pay saga, it was a disgrace, they're not denying they got it wrong. I couldn't disagree more, think all parties have some good politicians, she's a stand out in how well prepared she is with detail during debates. Next to NS I would have said she's easily the best politician in Scotland.

[147lothian]

The Times newspaper, on Good Friday:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FtIfkMMXoDEpDdR?format=png&name=900x900
George Galloway wants to buy Nicola Sturgeon's Motorhome, if the police are putting it up for auction, to take it round Scotland in an Anti-SNP roadshow.

[JeMeSouviens]

George Galloway wants to buy Nicola Sturgeon's Motorhome, if the police are putting it up for auction, to take it round Scotland in an Anti-SNP roadshow.

At last! Some good news for pro-indy folk.

[Berwickhibby]

George Galloway wants to buy Nicola Sturgeon's Motorhome, if the police are putting it up for auction, to take it round Scotland in an Anti-SNP roadshow.

Property of the SNP so won’t be sold by the Police 😀 but it’s not a motorhome it’s a battlebus :faf::faf:

[Santa Cruz]

Property of the SNP so won’t be sold by the Police 😀 but it’s not a motorhome it’s a battlebus :faf::faf:

They should be giving their members in the island communities a free week's hol in that on the mainland, to give them some respite from fretting about essential travel woes.

[He's here!]

Ferries? Still?

Yep, still not completed. Six years behind schedule and counting...as well as quadrupling in price.

[WhileTheChief..]

Good post

Like yourself, I haven't actively followed this story at all tbh (or politics more generally, since the Supreme Court farce before Xmas)

There may well be some wrong-doing within the SNP, however - I struggle to believe anyone can honestly say this isn't primarily a smear campaign in a desperate bid to derail independence, I mean the media coverage has been off the charts !!

As you've correctly detailed, arguably the most corrupt English government ever have done worse for years now, with far less media scrutiny and outrage

Sad state of affairs all round, but I guess this is just what happens when the press are firmly in the pockets of the nasty party

It's because folk have actively followed this story. You've not, but have somehow decided it's a smear campaign!

Have a read through the thread and some of the articles that have been posted. It's pretty hard to think anything other than this is a mess the SNP created all by themselves.

[Hibrandenburg]

It's because folk have actively followed this story. You've not, but have somehow decided it's a smear campaign!

Have a read through the thread and some of the articles that have been posted. It's pretty hard to think anything other than this is a mess the SNP created all by themselves.

What are they guilty of?

[Berwickhibby]

Just back from walking my dog and bumped into a guy I know, I am unsure if he is an SNP member but he does wear a lot of SNP badges, he assures me that this is all an MI5 campaign to damage Sturgeon and Murrell, the SNP have millions in the bank and the motorhome/battlebus was planted on Murrell’s mums drive. The really sad thing is he genuinely believes it.

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65339736

Yousaf confirms Murrell loan still to be paid off.

[He's here!]

Can anyone explain why the bus would need to be impounded? It belongs to the SNP.


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Police tried to stop man filming SNP motorhome - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65334513)

Bit bizarre.

[marinello59]

What are they guilty of?

Lumbering us with Yousaf as FM ? :greengrin

[degenerated]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-65334513

Bit bizarre.Not sure they are allowed to do that, unless it's obstructing them from doing their job.

I also noticed the polis that were taking the teabags and cheesy pasta evidence yesterday weren't wearing warrant numbers, fairly sure uniformed police have to display those. 26673

[He's here!]

'Wine bar revolutionary' falls back on the old 'blame Westminster' card to deflect from her own ineptitude:

Lorna Slater announces overhaul of bottle return scheme - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-65335262)

SNP MSP Fergus Ewing calls Greens 'wine bar revolutionaries' - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/uk-scotland-65339658)

[Mibbes Aye]

What are they guilty of?

Reckless endangerment of a health service?

If they ask for all their crimes to be taken into account, it will be looked upon favourably by the court :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Reckless endangerment of a health service?

If they ask for all their crimes to be taken into account, it will be looked upon favourably by the court :greengrin

And yet still the best NHS in the UK. [emoji106]


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[Mibbes Aye]

And yet still the best NHS in the UK. [emoji106]


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Interesting. One of your fellow travellers bigged up some recently-published hospital rankings last night but it turns out that the best hospital in Scotland is only the 26th best in the UK.

That's not a cause for celebration or one-upmanship, it just makes your oft-repeated proclamations on this matter seem rather hollow.

[Ozyhibby]

Interesting. One of your fellow travellers bigged up some recently-published hospital rankings last night but it turns out that the best hospital in Scotland is only the 26th best in the UK.

That's not a cause for celebration or one-upmanship, it just makes your oft-repeated proclamations on this matter seem rather hollow.

I didn’t though because I read the article. It doesn’t really rate health services.


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[Since90+2]

Interesting. One of your fellow travellers bigged up some recently-published hospital rankings last night but it turns out that the best hospital in Scotland is only the 26th best in the UK.

That's not a cause for celebration or one-upmanship, it just makes your oft-repeated proclamations on this matter seem rather hollow.

That's not how you measure performance across the board.

[Mibbes Aye]

I didn’t though because I read the article. It doesn’t really rate health services.


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Didn't what?

Anyway, d you know what the rankings do measure? Do you know the measures used for health services as a whole?

[Ozyhibby]

Didn't what?

Anyway, d you know what the rankings do measure? Do you know the measures used for health services as a whole?

I didn’t share it or big it up. It didn’t look that impressive and I’m not sure why STV made a big deal of it. It did appear to show that London, Oxford and Cambridge get a lot of research funding.


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[Mibbes Aye]

That's not how you measure performance across the board.

Not sure if that was an intended pun, but if so, very droll :greengrin

How do you measure performance across the board then?

[Stairway 2 7]

I didn’t though because I read the article. It doesn’t really rate health services.


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It doesn't only look at research though as was insinuated. ERI has more research funding than most on the list above it. The bioquarter is fantastic though and if it was just based on research we'd be above most, it's going to massively increase too although brexit isn't helping

[Mibbes Aye]

I didn’t share it or big it up. It didn’t look that impressive and I’m not sure why STV made a big deal of it. It did appear to show that London, Oxford and Cambridge get a lot of research funding.


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No, you didn't, I see now!

In fairnesst there were well over a dozen other English hospitals in there too, research funding isn't a guarantee of good patient outcomes and even if it were, Scottish hospitals, especially Glasgow QE see a fair bit of investment.

You must have an acute eye though - I didn't see the figures to support the assertion that all those London hospitals got a lot of research funding!

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/agc_reports/status/1649070943036162048?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Humza standing up for our parliament today. Silence from elsewhere.


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[He's here!]

https://twitter.com/agc_reports/status/1649070943036162048?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Humza standing up for our parliament today. Silence from elsewhere.


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Probably because it's pretty p**h by and large.

In saying that the Scottish Tories were not silent about Frost's views:

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/outrage-scots-tories-after-peer-29759744

[Skol]

There is still a lot of whatboutery on here.

I am pretty sure that Yousaf, Russell and Robison have all in recent days admitted there are problems with governance and transparency within the snp. Whether or not there are criminal charges, this is surely not a position to be proud of.

I get that the tories are worse, but if you are going to take the moral high ground, you need to be whiter than white.

[grunt]

I get that the tories are worse, but if you are going to take the moral high ground, you need to be whiter than white.
:faf:

[Skol]

:faf:

?

[grunt]

?That's the rule, is it?

[Skol]

That's the rule, is it?

Well you can be just as bad but it’s not a great look to be honest.

[grunt]

Well you can be just as bad but it’s not a great look to be honest.
That's it? Two options? Whiter than white or just as bad?

[Skol]

That's it? Two options? Whiter than white or just as bad?

Whataboutery

[Hibrandenburg]

There is still a lot of whatboutery on here.

I am pretty sure that Yousaf, Russell and Robison have all in recent days admitted there are problems with governance and transparency within the snp. Whether or not there are criminal charges, this is surely not a position to be proud of.

I get that the tories are worse, but if you are going to take the moral high ground, you need to be whiter than white.

Yousaf is a genius compared to what else is on offer from the other parties.

[Skol]

Yousaf is a genius compared to what else is on offer from the other parties.

And you want these people running the country

[Skol]

Robin Mcalpines blog is worth a read.

[Kato]

Interesting. One of your fellow travellers bigged up some recently-published hospital rankings last night but it turns out that the best hospital in Scotland is only the 26th best in the UK.



Why are these comparisons ok to make?

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