SNP are lying b******s as well !

[He's here!]

I totally agree with that. One day strikes achieve nothing save giving a sense of togetherness and perhaps a launch of a campaign. Teachers would be far better splitting a one day strike over a week. Walk out for an hour and a half each day or similar. My Union, PCS, are going for targeted and sustained so strikers can be paid, initially, from a strike fund and then a levy from those not striking. Those areas out will be the most damaging to the Government for the money used to pay strikers. It is a tactic I have advocated for over a decade and I am glad we have went that route but there are still some that seem to think a one day strike will make a difference.

Personally I would get every Union member in the TUC to start moving money and services to designated providers. Cause absolute chaos in the financial market and then a month later get them to all change to another provider. Make sure the big energy companies ad banks know what is coming so they lobby government effectively on workers behalf. Unions have to be much more open to the use of online ways of changing minds and I would be looking at spending $8 and screwing with any big business you could with a tweet dressed up as from a big company and then an instruction to Union members worldwide to retweet. Chaos and disruption can be incredibly cheap these days and easier to organise than strikes under the horrendous ant worker Trade Union laws

I have always thought public servants who are employed not elected should all be viewed the same in terms of pay. A rate for the job should be agreed and then changed with inflation. If the Government isn't a decent employer then why should anyone else be. As it turns out the recent Tory Governments have been some of the worst employers in the market place, stealing pensions, quite literally stealing pension payments, slashing compensation payments, closing offices, employing massive amounts of agency staff and paying 4 or 5 % this year less than private sector employer in Pay awards. That isn't even to mention a number of unlawful acts that the courts and Unions have made them reverse on and some of which they simply changed the law to bring in.

The latest strike action announced is quite similar to what you suggest with 16 days shared between councils. An effective way of maintaining disruption and keeping things in the public eye while not keeping kids out of the classroom for too long.

[Ozyhibby]

Or the least worst. :greengrin

All you can do within the UK.


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[LewysGot2]

The latest strike action announced is quite similar to what you suggest with 16 days shared between councils. An effective way of maintaining disruption and keeping things in the public eye while not keeping kids out of the classroom for too long.

Think the next strikes are in December- other unions out in secondary sector.
SSTA or something. Was on the news yesterday.

Also think comparing Scotland with England does seem a bit like apples and oranges. It seems in England that class teachers can get additional payments above the main scale without going to a promoted post and it’s higher than the potential for class teachers in Scotland. Scotland has done away with our equivalent- the Chartered Teacher scheme I think? Only those in it on a legacy basis still. No new Chartered Teachers possible. So promotion out of the classroom is the only way to do that in Scotland now. As someone said taxes are higher, too. The £7K more than England has been trashed by the EIS, newly qualified teachers in Scotland get £28k. The media release from the powers that be were including an increment in their sums that teachers newly qualified in Scotland only get after another year of experience. That’s naughty. It appears they’re not comparing the same status and experience of teacher in that headline news.

The EIS are also saying quite angrily that the supposed offer was spun in the media - they state 85% of teachers are getting offered 5% or less. That’s really not great compared to a number of other sectors of late to be honest.

There is a secondary school in Glasgow on strike for 12 days solid. Apparently to do with health and safety- pupil violence levels are seemingly the reason.

[He's here!]

Think the next strikes are in December- other unions out in secondary sector.
SSTA or something. Was on the news yesterday.

Also think comparing Scotland with England does seem a bit like apples and oranges. It seems in England that class teachers can get additional payments above the main scale without going to a promoted post and it’s higher than the potential for class teachers in Scotland. Scotland has done away with our equivalent- the Chartered Teacher scheme I think? Only those in it on a legacy basis still. No new Chartered Teachers possible. So promotion out of the classroom is the only way to do that in Scotland now. As someone said taxes are higher, too. The £7K more than England has been trashed by the EIS, newly qualified teachers in Scotland get £28k. The media release from the powers that be were including an increment in their sums that teachers newly qualified in Scotland only get after another year of experience. That’s naughty. It appears they’re not comparing the same status and experience of teacher in that headline news.

The EIS are also saying quite angrily that the supposed offer was spun in the media - they state 85% of teachers are getting offered 5% or less. That’s really not great compared to a number of other sectors of late to be honest.

There is a secondary school in Glasgow on strike for 12 days solid. Apparently to do with health and safety- pupil violence levels are seemingly the reason.

Yes, Bannerman High. Northfield Academy in Aberdeen look set to follow suit:

Teachers at Aberdeen school back industrial action over pupil violence - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-63652893)

As somebody who works in primary education and has been injured on more than one occasion by disruptive pupils I find it it hard to imagine having to cope with violent High-School aged kids. One of the reasons I have long felt teaching staff are undervalued.

[He's here!]

And do you actually believe everything in government gets laid to one side while they discuss independence, how very naive of you.

Sturgeon will be laying everything else aside at the next general election to campaign on a single issue, independence. Not hard to see where her focus lies.

Her call to be judged on her education record seems a very long time ago.

[Just Alf]

Yes, Bannerman High. Northfield Academy in Aberdeen look set to follow suit:

Teachers at Aberdeen school back industrial action over pupil violence - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-63652893)

As somebody who works in primary education and has been injured on more than one occasion by disruptive pupils I find it it hard to imagine having to cope with violent High-School aged kids. One of the reasons I have long felt teaching staff are undervalued.Often i don't 'quite' agree with a lot you say ( :greengrin ) but in this post I 100% agree, totally undervalued.

[He's here!]

Or the least worst. :greengrin

That's probably a more accurate way of putting it. I can only speak for primary education but in my view Scottish education is heading for a cliff edge. A lot was made earlier this year of the fact the Sturgeon's flagship pledge to close the attainment gap by 2026 has been abandoned, but in my experience the strategy was ill-conceived in the first place, with homework for kids in more affluent areas scaled back or scrapped in order to slow their progress. The curriculum for (so-called) excellence includes the rollout of play-based learning across early years which I am a fan of at P1 level as it eases the transition from nursery, but we're now seeing it extended to P2 and even P3, with the result that increasing numbers of kids are reaching that stage of their education still unable to read or write - the knock-on effect being that teachers further up the school are having to play catch-up when it comes to ensuring kids have a proper grasp of basic literacy and numeracy. It's a source of much frustration.

This former Tynecastle High head of history gave a good overview of the problems:

NEIL MACKAY'S BIG READ: 'SNP nationalism is destroying education' - the devastating assessment of Sturgeon and schools by leading Scottish educationalist | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19834326.neil-mackays-big-read-snp-nationalism-destroying-education---devastating-assessment-sturgeon-schools-leading-scottish-educationalist/)

[He's here!]

Think the next strikes are in December- other unions out in secondary sector.
SSTA or something. Was on the news yesterday.

Also think comparing Scotland with England does seem a bit like apples and oranges. It seems in England that class teachers can get additional payments above the main scale without going to a promoted post and it’s higher than the potential for class teachers in Scotland. Scotland has done away with our equivalent- the Chartered Teacher scheme I think? Only those in it on a legacy basis still. No new Chartered Teachers possible. So promotion out of the classroom is the only way to do that in Scotland now. As someone said taxes are higher, too. The £7K more than England has been trashed by the EIS, newly qualified teachers in Scotland get £28k. The media release from the powers that be were including an increment in their sums that teachers newly qualified in Scotland only get after another year of experience. That’s naughty.It appears they’re not comparing the same status and experience of teacher in that headline news.

The EIS are also saying quite angrily that the supposed offer was spun in the media - they state 85% of teachers are getting offered 5% or less. That’s really not great compared to a number of other sectors of late to be honest.

There is a secondary school in Glasgow on strike for 12 days solid. Apparently to do with health and safety- pupil violence levels are seemingly the reason.

Yes, meant to say in my earlier post that's broadly correct.

[ronaldo7]

Yes, Bannerman High. Northfield Academy in Aberdeen look set to follow suit:

Teachers at Aberdeen school back industrial action over pupil violence - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-63652893)

As somebody who works in primary education and has been injured on more than one occasion by disruptive pupils I find it it hard to imagine having to cope with violent High-School aged kids. One of the reasons I have long felt teaching staff are undervalued.

Are you a primary school teacher?

[Stairway 2 7]

The what can she do whilst a part of the uk is utter cringe cult like stuff. The block budget amount hasn't changed in real terms in 10 years, Income tax also makes up the vast majority of tax generation.

Is she says we can't do anything with the budget that's there, move over and let someone in who can. Cheerleaders who will literally not criticise any decision are not subjective and best ignored imo. People treat political parties like football teams nowadays. I vote snp but all parties must be brought to task

[The Tubs]

That's probably a more accurate way of putting it. I can only speak for primary education but in my view Scottish education is heading for a cliff edge. A lot was made earlier this year of the fact the Sturgeon's flagship pledge to close the attainment gap by 2026 has been abandoned, but in my experience the strategy was ill-conceived in the first place, with homework for kids in more affluent areas scaled back or scrapped in order to slow their progress. The curriculum for (so-called) excellence includes the rollout of play-based learning across early years which I am a fan of at P1 level as it eases the transition from nursery, but we're now seeing it extended to P2 and even P3, with the result that increasing numbers of kids are reaching that stage of their education still unable to read or write - the knock-on effect being that teachers further up the school are having to play catch-up when it comes to ensuring kids have a proper grasp of basic literacy and numeracy. It's a source of much frustration.

This former Tynecastle High head of history gave a good overview of the problems:

NEIL MACKAY'S BIG READ: 'SNP nationalism is destroying education' - the devastating assessment of Sturgeon and schools by leading Scottish educationalist | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/19834326.neil-mackays-big-read-snp-nationalism-destroying-education---devastating-assessment-sturgeon-schools-leading-scottish-educationalist/)

At which ages do top-ranked PISA nations start teaching literacy?

[Ozyhibby]

Think the next strikes are in December- other unions out in secondary sector.
SSTA or something. Was on the news yesterday.

Also think comparing Scotland with England does seem a bit like apples and oranges. It seems in England that class teachers can get additional payments above the main scale without going to a promoted post and it’s higher than the potential for class teachers in Scotland. Scotland has done away with our equivalent- the Chartered Teacher scheme I think? Only those in it on a legacy basis still. No new Chartered Teachers possible. So promotion out of the classroom is the only way to do that in Scotland now. As someone said taxes are higher, too. The £7K more than England has been trashed by the EIS, newly qualified teachers in Scotland get £28k. The media release from the powers that be were including an increment in their sums that teachers newly qualified in Scotland only get after another year of experience. That’s naughty. It appears they’re not comparing the same status and experience of teacher in that headline news.

The EIS are also saying quite angrily that the supposed offer was spun in the media - they state 85% of teachers are getting offered 5% or less. That’s really not great compared to a number of other sectors of late to be honest.

There is a secondary school in Glasgow on strike for 12 days solid. Apparently to do with health and safety- pupil violence levels are seemingly the reason.

Wouldn’t someone on a teachers salary pay less tax in Scotland?


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[Ozyhibby]

The what can she do whilst a part of the uk is utter cringe cult like stuff. The block budget amount hasn't changed in real terms in 10 years, Income tax also makes up the vast majority of tax generation.

Is she says we can't do anything with the budget that's there, move over and let someone in who can. Cheerleaders who will literally not criticise any decision are not subjective and best ignored imo. People treat political parties like football teams nowadays. I vote snp but all parties must be brought to task

Should we vote for the Tories performing worse in England or Labour performing worse in Wales?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Should we vote for the Tories performing worse in England or Labour performing worse in Wales?


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Is that the two options vote another party or be cultish. I said I vote snp I have for years now and will continue.

[Ozyhibby]

Is that the two options vote another party or be cultish. I said I vote snp I have for years now and will continue.

That is indeed the only alternatives we have. I personally think education could be run much better but I’m not seeing any other party offering a better proposal? Has Sarwar even talked about his plans for education? What are Ross’s proposals what the curriculum?
Opposition tactics in Scotland seem to be to run around saying the SNP are failing everywhere but not actually show people how they would do it better? Why aren’t they saying look how we are doing this in Wales, we could do that in Scotland as well? Or look at how amazing services are in England, Scotland is missing out? They can’t do that though because they are under performing even the so called ‘failing’ SNP.
The simple fact is, in Scotland if you want your services run well, your best bet is the SNP. That’s a fact.


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[LewysGot2]

Wouldn’t someone on a teachers salary pay less tax in Scotland?


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People up here pay more tax after they earn about the rate of pay for a newly qualified teacher - so teachers will pay more tax here? And with 85% of them at or near the top of their main scale, that difference will be bigger

[LewysGot2]

That is indeed the only alternatives we have. I personally think education could be run much better but I’m not seeing any other party offering a better proposal? Has Sarwar even talked about his plans for education? What are Ross’s proposals what the curriculum?
Opposition tactics in Scotland seem to be to run around saying the SNP are failing everywhere but not actually show people how they would do it better? Why aren’t they saying look how we are doing this in Wales, we could do that in Scotland as well? Or look at how amazing services are in England, Scotland is missing out? They can’t do that though because they are under performing even the so called ‘failing’ SNP.
The simple fact is, in Scotland if you want your services run well, your best bet is the SNP. That’s a fact.


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What's your plans for improving it? Maybe a different thread I the making but it's interesting when folk say that they have ideas to improve it. Are you an educationalist like He's Here? Genuinely interested in hearing folks take on what can be better and evidence based backing to suggest why. In reality my experience is I once went to school. That doesn't make me feel confident to advise how things could be better. School now is a million miles from the olden days when I went to school and teachers have to be social workers, in loco parentis in so many ways. I've no doubt much more is expected of them these days than ever before.

Maybe we should start a new thread to find out what should or could change and why :thumbsup:

[J-C]

Sturgeon will be laying everything else aside at the next general election to campaign on a single issue, independence. Not hard to see where her focus lies.

Her call to be judged on her education record seems a very long time ago.


What absolute nonsense.

[Ozyhibby]

What's your plans for improving it? Maybe a different thread I the making but it's interesting when folk say that they have ideas to improve it. Are you an educationalist like He's Here? Genuinely interested in hearing folks take on what can be better and evidence based backing to suggest why. In reality my experience is I once went to school. That doesn't make me feel confident to advise how things could be better. School now is a million miles from the olden days when I went to school and teachers have to be social workers, in loco parentis in so many ways. I've no doubt much more is expected of them these days than ever before.

Maybe we should start a new thread to find out what should or could change and why :thumbsup:

I’m def not an educationalist. I have ideas but they are likely full of holes.


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[Kato]

Sturgeon will be laying everything else aside at the next general election to campaign on a single issue, independence. Not hard to see where her focus lies.

Her call to be judged on her education record seems a very long time ago.Is this a cut and paste from the Daily Express?

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[Stairway 2 7]

Mhairi Black not having the colony chat, quite rightly

https://mobile.twitter.com/agcolehamilton/status/1596264003093037056

[Ozyhibby]

Mhairi Black not having the colony chat, quite rightly

https://mobile.twitter.com/agcolehamilton/status/1596264003093037056

Did NS use the word colony?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Did NS use the word colony?


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Did you listen to it. I didn't mention NS. It's Black saying we shouldn't say colony

[Ozyhibby]

Did you listen to it. I didn't mention NS. It's Black saying we shouldn't say colony

You posted a link to a tweet which specifically mentions NS?
Personally I don’t use the word colony.


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[Smartie]

Mhairi Black not having the colony chat, quite rightly

https://mobile.twitter.com/agcolehamilton/status/1596264003093037056

I’ve not listened to the whole podcast but even from the little bit I heard it sounded like a very carefully cherry-picked quote with zero context for ACH to make a particular point.

On the face of it I agree 100% with Black - the worst part of the colony chat is that it underplays the horrors of colonisation and doesn’t acknowledge the terrible role Scots have played over the century as that butcher’s apron has been hoisted and the assets stripped.

[He's here!]

Is this a cut and paste from the Daily Express?

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In what way is it inaccurate? As explained here, Sturgeon has made clear that in the next general election the SNP will be campaigning on a single issue:

Scottish independence: What is a de facto referendum? - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-63742281)

[He's here!]

Are you a primary school teacher?

Sorry, just saw this. No, support for learning assistant.

[Kato]

In what way is it inaccurate? As explained here, Sturgeon has made clear that in the next general election the SNP will be campaigning on a single issue:

Scottish independence: What is a de facto referendum? - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-63742281)Do you think it's possible to do two things at once? In this case prepare for an election and govern the education system? Clues include "departmemtalisation" and "delagation".

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[Mibbes Aye]

Do you think it's possible to do two things at once? In this case prepare for an election and govern the education system? Clues include "departmemtalisation" and "delagation".

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I was going to be mean and say they maybe should be focusing on the education system given that spelling, but I will refrain :greengrin

[ronaldo7]

Sorry, just saw this. No, support for learning assistant.

Thanks for the response. I've got family in the same area, and wondered if you were finding things difficult in the job, as they are.

They leave the education to the educationalists as well, but sometimes take the hits for them.

[Kato]

I was going to be mean and say they maybe should be focusing on the education system given that spelling, but I will refrain :greengrinToo late for me, bud.

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[He's here!]

Thanks for the response. I've got family in the same area, and wondered if you were finding things difficult in the job, as they are.

They leave the education to the educationalists as well, but sometimes take the hits for them.

That's a big question. Put it this way, there is much about the job that I love but those elements have become increasingly diluted and I'm considering moving on. The Scottish government's championing of inclusivity sounds lovely on paper but when, for example, it comes to children with significant long-term ASN we are (in my view) trying to jam too many square pegs into round holes. GIRFEC (getting it right for every child) falls short in too many individual cases which is unfair on the child, on their classmates, on their teachers, on support staff unqualified to work effectively with them and of course on their parents who are, understandably, hoping against hope to see their child thrive in a mainstream school. I have seen and worked with too many for whom that is, to put it bluntly, never going to happen. Re teachers, yes there can be something of an out of sight out of mind approach by some (though by no means all) who are relieved to see especially challenging children attended to by somebody else. In a number of cases that means little more than an often stressful day of childcare rather than any meaningful form of education.

[degenerated]

That's a big question. Put it this way, there is much about the job that I love but those elements have become increasingly diluted and I'm considering moving on. The Scottish government's championing of inclusivity sounds lovely on paper but when, for example, it comes to children with significant long-term ASN we are (in my view) trying to jam too many square pegs into round holes. GIRFEC (getting it right for every child) falls short in too many individual cases which is unfair on the child, on their classmates, on their teachers, on support staff unqualified to work effectively with them and of course on their parents who are, understandably, hoping against hope to see their child thrive in a mainstream school. I have seen and worked with too many for whom that is, to put it bluntly, never going to happen. Re teachers, yes there can be something of an out of sight out of mind approach by some (though by no means all) who are relieved to see especially challenging children attended to by somebody else. In a number of cases that means little more than an often stressful day of childcare rather than any meaningful form of education.I'm no expert on any of that but having worked on 2 new build ASN schools over the last few years it would suggest their is now a recognition of need for these.

[He's here!]

I'm no expert on any of that but having worked on 2 new build ASN schools over the last few years it would suggest their is now a recognition of need for these.

I would like to think so, but the Scottish government now stipulates that every local authority has a duty to provide education in a mainstream setting (a 'presumption of mainstreaming'). Again, all very well on paper, but in my experience the reality too often is that a child may be present in a mainstream setting but is by no means 'included' in a consistently meaningful way. I suspect many would find it an eye-opener to see just how big a demand an especially challenging child places on staffing resources (often at the expense of other children's day-to-day needs).

Additional support for learning - Schools - gov.scot (www.gov.scot (https://www.gov.scot/policies/schools/additional-support-for-learning/))

[Just Alf]

I would like to think so, but the Scottish government now stipulates that every local authority has a duty to provide education in a mainstream setting (a 'presumption of mainstreaming'). Again, all very well on paper, but in my experience the reality too often is that a child may be present in a mainstream setting but is by no means 'included' in a consistently meaningful way. I suspect many would find it an eye-opener to see just how big a demand an especially challenging child places on staffing resources (often at the expense of other children's day-to-day needs).

Additional support for learning - Schools - gov.scot (www.gov.scot (https://www.gov.scot/policies/schools/additional-support-for-learning/))That sounds like real hard work.

Reading it I do worry that as you've pointed out, other children are being negatively impacted by the few 'difficult' children being pushed through the system in something not tailored enough.to their individual needs.

Keep up the good work!

[LewysGot2]

I would like to think so, but the Scottish government now stipulates that every local authority has a duty to provide education in a mainstream setting (a 'presumption of mainstreaming'). Again, all very well on paper, but in my experience the reality too often is that a child may be present in a mainstream setting but is by no means 'included' in a consistently meaningful way. I suspect many would find it an eye-opener to see just how big a demand an especially challenging child places on staffing resources (often at the expense of other children's day-to-day needs).

Additional support for learning - Schools - gov.scot ( (https://www.gov.scot/policies/schools/additional-support-for-learning/)www.gov.scot (http://www.gov.scot))


Swinney ushered in that Presumption of Mainstream legislation I think? Without being cynical it looks like a way to avoid building resources for pupils with additional needs and putting the onus on mainstream schools to meet needs with finite resources. All in the name of “inclusion”.

Has there been any new ASN schools built in the area not just rebuilds of old ones? Can’t think of any? The pressure on those schools must be immense too - was Kaimes not in the press not that long ago because staff walked out over violent assaults?

[Just Alf]

Swinney ushered in that Presumption of Mainstream legislation I think? Without being cynical it looks like a way to avoid building resources for pupils with additional needs and putting the onus on mainstream schools to meet needs with finite resources. All in the name of “inclusion”.

Has there been any new ASN schools built in the area not just rebuilds of old ones? Can’t think of any? The pressure on those schools must be immense too - was Kaimes not in the press not that long ago because staff walked out over violent assaults?It's a good point... I can see how it is seen as a "good thing" , but only if it was backed up with more support for the schools to cater for the additional demands on the facilities/staff.

[He's here!]

Swinney ushered in that Presumption of Mainstream legislation I think? Without being cynical it looks like a way to avoid building resources for pupils with additional needs and putting the onus on mainstream schools to meet needs with finite resources. All in the name of “inclusion”.

Has there been any new ASN schools built in the area not just rebuilds of old ones? Can’t think of any? The pressure on those schools must be immense too - was Kaimes not in the press not that long ago because staff walked out over violent assaults?

There's much I could add to that but let's just say your post mirrors many a staffroom conversation.

Between 2012 and 2019 there was a 70% increase in kids with ASN being registered in mainstream schools following Swinney's measures. That's circa 200k children. Wouldn't be surprised if that figure is touching quarter of a million now:

Edinburgh's disabled children being 'segregated' in mainstream schools due to lack of support | Edinburgh News (scotsman.com) (https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/news/people/edinburghs-disabled-children-being-segregated-mainstream-schools-due-lack-support-542392)

[stu in nottingham]

I would agree with much of what people have said. I worked and volunteered with SEN children for some time in both SEN and mainstream settings and observed quite a few children who had been included in both at various times. There were some who just did not thrive in a mainstream setting, more often those with behavioural problems. I witnessed numerous times when a mainstream classroom setting did not have the necessary provision of respources, particularly in terms of staff, in order to meet the child's needs. Equally, the unstatemented childrens' education stood to suffer at times due to the extra pressure put on staff by kids with special needs. My conclusion tended to be that some children were just not suitable for mainstream mainly because the number of staff to support them was inadequate.

By contrast, an SEN school I worked within for three years seriously deteriorated during that period. With a lack of funding for the small school it became apparent that nearly all the statemented children coming into the school had serious behavioural problems and often extremely chaotic backgrounds. This was due to the exrtra funding they brought for one-to-one support they came with which allowed the school to operate. The result was much increased incidences of violence in the school where once they had been well managed. I recall one afternoon there were four seperate fights going on simultaneously in the school with female staff getting hurt. Items such as blades were regularly being secreted around the school by some of the kids with behavioural problems and so on.

All this of course had a deleterious effect on many of the other children's education and experience. These were youngsters with visual or hearing impairments, kids with cerebral palsy, brain injury, Prader Willi Syndrome, Down Syndrome and so on. Making up the balance of the school population were children on the autistic spectrum. Many of these kids' education and care suffered due to the breakdown in behaviour around the school.

Looking back, I'm still not sure what the answer is. Maybr mainstream could work for all if those schools were funded sufficiently. I don't see that ever happening though.

[Mibbes Aye]

It's a good point... I can see how it is seen as a "good thing" , but only if it was backed up with more support for the schools to cater for the additional demands on the facilities/staff.

There's also a wider, structural problem here. With schools being universal service and and full-time education legislated for (until the age of 19 in statute IIRC, though that doesn't translate in practice), there is a massive cliff-edge where children with additional support needs become 'adults'.

For children with complex physical disabilities and learning disabilities they move from what to an extent are commonly seen by parents as 'safe' services at school where staffing ratios (at least on paper) are far more positive, to become adults with less guaranteed support and also more chargeable services (though adult benefits offset some of that).

For children affected by mental ill-health, or with behavoiurs perceived as challenging by others, or the like, the cliff-edge can be equally dramatic and traumatic. While there have always been a lot of policy initiatives around this specific transition, anyone working in this field will know of the negative impact on the wellbeing of these children or young people.

[ronaldo7]

At which ages do top-ranked PISA nations start teaching literacy?

This question seems to have been missed. I think it's 7 mate.

[Santa Cruz]

That's a big question. Put it this way, there is much about the job that I love but those elements have become increasingly diluted and I'm considering moving on. The Scottish government's championing of inclusivity sounds lovely on paper but when, for example, it comes to children with significant long-term ASN we are (in my view) trying to jam too many square pegs into round holes. GIRFEC (getting it right for every child) falls short in too many individual cases which is unfair on the child, on their classmates, on their teachers, on support staff unqualified to work effectively with them and of course on their parents who are, understandably, hoping against hope to see their child thrive in a mainstream school. I have seen and worked with too many for whom that is, to put it bluntly, never going to happen. Re teachers, yes there can be something of an out of sight out of mind approach by some (though by no means all) who are relieved to see especially challenging children attended to by somebody else. In a number of cases that means little more than an often stressful day of childcare rather than any meaningful form of education.

CEC are holding a focus group meeting tonight at Liberton H.S for parents/carers. It's to gather views on the future direction the Council takes with Education, and more broadly a national discussion on this topic. There's limited spaces, if anyone's interested I'm happy to dig out the email contact needed to book tickets.

Edit adding it now in case I forget to check back. It's from 7-9pm. [email protected] ([email protected])

[He's here!]

There's also a wider, structural problem here. With schools being universal service and and full-time education legislated for (until the age of 19 in statute IIRC, though that doesn't translate in practice), there is a massive cliff-edge where children with additional support needs become 'adults'.

For children with complex physical disabilities and learning disabilities they move from what to an extent are commonly seen by parents as 'safe' services at school where staffing ratios (at least on paper) are far more positive, to become adults with less guaranteed support and also more chargeable services (though adult benefits offset some of that).

For children affected by mental ill-health, or with behavoiurs perceived as challenging by others, or the like, the cliff-edge can be equally dramatic and traumatic. While there have always been a lot of policy initiatives around this specific transition, anyone working in this field will know of the negative impact on the wellbeing of these children or young people.

I can only speak for primary school level, but there are certain behaviours which are challenging full-stop. No reasonable person would perceive them any other way. The most obvious being violent behaviour as the bite marks (which on one occasion necessitated a tetanus jab), cuts and bruises I've sustained testify. These injuries have been almost exclusively sustained while working with children with significant ASN and are a big part of the reason I find the Scottish government's 'presumption of mainstream' far from satisfactory.

I agree with your cliff edge analogy though. Even the transition from primary school to high school is a bridge many with significant ASN simply can't cross. The way I tend to manage my own anxieties when working with especially challenging kids is to remember how hard (and exhausting) it must be to see the world the way they do and how terribly hard it must be to be a parent trying to help their child navigate that world and agonising over how that child/adult will cope when they are no longer around.

[Mibbes Aye]

I can only speak for primary school level, but there are certain behaviours which are challenging full-stop. No reasonable person would perceive them any other way. The most obvious being violent behaviour as the bite marks (which on one occasion necessitated a tetanus jab), cuts and bruises I've sustained testify. These injuries have been almost exclusively sustained while working with children with significant ASN and are a big part of the reason I find the Scottish government's 'presumption of mainstream' far from satisfactory.

I agree with your cliff edge analogy though. Even the transition from primary school to high school is a bridge many with significant ASN simply can't cross. The way I tend to manage my own anxieties when working with especially challenging kids is to remember how hard (and exhausting) it must be to see the world the way they do and how terribly hard it must be to be a parent trying to help their child navigate that world and agonising over how that child/adult will cope when they are no longer around.

:agree:

I wouldn't want to diminish the impact of behaviours that are challenging, and often physically harmful, let alone emotionally harmful, for those on the receiving end.

I think it was me being clumsy with the language. I was trying to describe children who in the past would be labelled as having 'challenging behaviour' but I wasn't going to use that expression as it is grim and just highlights the symptoms not the cause.

I'm guessing in your role you will be all-too-familiar with the power of language and the effect it can have on people's lives when used carelessly. That's why work in this field can be so difficult, though it has the capacity to be incredibly rewarding too.

[He's here!]

:agree:

I wouldn't want to diminish the impact of behaviours that are challenging, and often physically harmful, let alone emotionally harmful, for those on the receiving end.

I think it was me being clumsy with the language. I was trying to describe children who in the past would be labelled as having 'challenging behaviour' but I wasn't going to use that expression as it is grim and just highlights the symptoms not the cause.

I'm guessing in your role you will be all-too-familiar with the power of language and the effect it can have on people's lives when used carelessly. That's why work in this field can be so difficult, though it has the capacity to be incredibly rewarding too.

Yes at least, as you say, we've come a long way when it comes to understanding the symptoms. When I was a kid 'sp*stic' was pretty much the generic term for those who were even a bit different. I can only imagine what horrors kids in times gone by went through at school when ASN were unrecognised.

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-63792386

Shipyard takeover 'wasted' £200m of public money.

[grunt]

Woohoo! The ferry story is back!

[ronaldo7]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-63792386

Shipyard takeover 'wasted' £200m of public money.

Former Ferguson boss Jim McColl has claimed.

The government said Mr McColl's proposal breached EU state aid rules.

Ends.

[degenerated]

Former Ferguson boss Jim McColl has claimed.

The government said Mr McColl's proposal breached EU state aid rules.

Ends.McColl claims a lot of things, like not having signed a contract.

[Rumble de Thump]

Why is the BBC just giving a disgruntled person a platform to attack people who have displeased him? Is that supposed to be news?

[He's here!]

Former Ferguson boss Jim McColl has claimed.

The government said Mr McColl's proposal breached EU state aid rules.

Ends.

According to the article McColl has presented legal advice that the proposal did not breach such rules.

I very much doubt this saga is anywhere near at an 'end'.

[ronaldo7]

According to the article McColl has presented legal advice that the proposal did not breach such rules.

I very much doubt this saga is anywhere near at an 'end'.


Aye. Very much he said she said. If that floats your boat. 🚤

[degenerated]

According to the article McColl has presented legal advice that the proposal did not breach such rules.

I very much doubt this saga is anywhere near at an 'end'.You very much hope, I'm sure you mean. :hilarious

[James310]

https://twitter.com/AuditorGenScot/status/1597564139001774080?t=48ddlEDpBrAFeHmcNARtPQ&s=19

It will be interesting to see the results of this. I suspect moving the date for the sake of being different to the rest of the UK will play a significant part.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://twitter.com/AuditorGenScot/status/1597564139001774080?t=48ddlEDpBrAFeHmcNARtPQ&s=19

It will be interesting to see the results of this. I suspect moving the date for the sake of being different to the rest of the UK will play a significant part.

In September 2018 we published Plans for Scotland's Census 2021. Since we published the document, the census was moved to 2022 due to the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic

https://www.scotlandscensus.gov.uk/about/2022-census/background/#:~:text=In%20September%202018%20we%20published,of %20the%20COVID%2D19%20pandemic.

[James310]

In September 2018 we published Plans for Scotland's Census 2021. Since we published the document, the census was moved to 2022 due to the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic

https://www.scotlandscensus.gov.uk/about/2022-census/background/#:~:text=In%20September%202018%20we%20published,of %20the%20COVID%2D19%20pandemic.

Yet England, Wales and NI ran the Census in 2021 when the impact of Covid was much more impactful and they had higher response rates.

[Ozyhibby]

In September 2018 we published Plans for Scotland's Census 2021. Since we published the document, the census was moved to 2022 due to the impact of the COVID-19 pandemic

https://www.scotlandscensus.gov.uk/about/2022-census/background/#:~:text=In%20September%202018%20we%20published,of %20the%20COVID%2D19%20pandemic.

Also in England, I’m pretty sure I read somewhere that although they had higher returns they are also having problems due to its inaccuracy now. They did it at a time when lots of people were not where they normally are due to the lockdowns and this may cause them problems with service delivery in future. Probably lessons for both sides here.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Yet England, Wales and NI ran the Census in 2021 when the impact of Covid was much more impactful and they had higher response rates.

I'm just reporting the fact that the census was moved due to the pandemic not so that Scotland could be different.

Yep, I posted the truth, get over it.

[James310]

I'm just reporting the fact that the census was moved due to the pandemic not so that Scotland could be different.

Yep, I posted the truth, get over it.

Calm down! No need to get so upset.

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63780998

Deaths in Scottish prisons at record high.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63780998

Deaths in Scottish prisons at record high.

I’m happy to admit that this is a failure of the SG. Our prisons are far too over crowded with people who don’t have to be there. And I’m sure Scotland has a higher prison population than the rest of the UK. There is very little rehab work done in prisons.
We need to be making far more use of home detention. It’s a lot cheaper and the money saved can be put into education programs to help offenders rejoin society.
Scotland has done well in getting our crime figures miles lower than the rUK but we need to stop using prison for all but the most serious crimes.
I’m not even sure if this is a deliberate policy choice of the SG or just something that has evolved over the years in the Scottish justice system.


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[Mibbes Aye]

I’m happy to admit that this is a failure of the SG. Our prisons are far too over crowded with people who don’t have to be there. And I’m sure Scotland has a higher prison population than the rest of the UK. There is very little rehab work done in prisons.
We need to be making far more use of home detention. It’s a lot cheaper and the money saved can be put into education programs to help offenders rejoin society.
Scotland has done well in getting our crime figures miles lower than the rUK but we need to stop using prison for all but the most serious crimes.
I’m not even sure if this is a deliberate policy choice of the SG or just something that has evolved over the years in the Scottish justice system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Scottish Parliament legislated in 2010 (IIRC) for a presumption against short custodial sentences - basically if it was going to be prison for less than three months then courts should use another form of disposal. The three months became 12 months a year or two before lockdown. On the whole it attracts ceoss-party support, as far as I know, though the SNP were in overall power and they should be acknowledged for that.

There are pros and cons (I side with the pros generally). There is evidence that supports the argument that those who serve short (12 months or less) sentences in custody are more likely to reoffend than those who are given community payback orders (a range of non-custodial options such as unpaid work, supervision, treatment for substance misuse etc).

There is also an inherent instability for people caught in a loop of offend/custody/liberation/offend that traps people and impacts massively on them, people around them and people they come into contact with.

One of the downsides is that the legislation is for a presumption, so the sheriff has the final say, which can make it inconsistent in its application. Probably the biggest issue is the amount of additional and under-resourced work it creates for local authorities. Their criminal justice social workers routinely prepared reports to court to inform the sentencing process but were not adequately resourced for a big increase in community payback orders, each one requiring an allocated social worker to supervise. Releasing prisoners with no supports or structures simply drives up reoffending.

There are also big, big issues for prisoners with longer sentences. The Prison Service has eye-wateringly bad sickness rates, which means any work to gear people up for post-release gets sacrificed to free up officers to do core tasks. Prisoners also then have less time for recreation, which takes a huge toll on their wellbeing and ability to cope.

I get that most people think prison should be about punishment and protecting the public, with maybe a small element of progression or rehabilitation. Tackling reoffending means making and taking unpopular decisions though. And tackling prison deaths means dropping all the Daily Mail pish about cushy lives inside.

In the past I've had the opportunity to spend some time in different parts of the prison system (on a professional basis). At its worst, which it ofen is, it's not about punishment and protection - it's far, far worse. It feels like the banal, steady and remorseless erosion of people's souls.

I'm all too aware that people do bad things and therefore serious things must happen to them, but the current set-up doesn't do that and it will mean continuing high rates of prison deaths.

[Hibrandenburg]

Yet England, Wales and NI ran the Census in 2021 when the impact of Covid was much more impactful and they had higher response rates.

I thought you unionists frowned upon comparing ourselves to other parts of the UK.

[Since90+2]

Calm down! No need to get so upset.

He basically make you look a little foolish so you've spat the dummy with that response.

This thread never changes 😂

[Ozyhibby]

The Scottish Parliament legislated in 2000 (IIRC) for a presumption against short custodial sentences - basically if it was going to be prison for less than three months then courts should use another form of disposal. The three months became 12 months a year or two before lockdown. On the whole it attracts ceoss-party support, as far as I know, though the SNP were in overall power and they should be acknowledged for that.

There are pros and cons (I side with the pros generally). There is evidence that supports the argument that those who serve short (12 months or less) sentences in custody are more likely to reoffend than those who are given community payback orders (a range of non-custodial options such as unpaid work, supervision, treatment for substance misuse etc).

There is also an inherent instability for people caught in a loop of offend/custody/liberation/offend that traps people and impacts massively on them, people around them and people they come into contact with.

One of the downsides is that the legislation is for a presumption, so the sheriff has the final say, which can make it inconsistent in its application. Probably the biggest issue is the amount of additional and under-resourced work it creates for local authorities. Their criminal justice social workers routinely prepared reports to court to inform the sentencing process but were not adequately resourced for a big increase in community payback orders, each one requiring an allocated social worker to supervise. Releasing prisoners with no supports or structures simply drives up reoffending.

There are also big, big issues for prisoners with longer sentences. The Prison Service has eye-wateringly bad sickness rates, which means any work to gear people up for post-release gets sacrificed to free up officers to do core tasks. Prisoners also then have less time for recreation, which takes a huge toll on their wellbeing and ability to cope.

I get that most people think prison should be about punishment and protecting the public, with maybe a small element of progression or rehabilitation. Tackling reoffending means making and taking unpopular decisions though. And tackling prison deaths means dropping all the Daily Mail pish about cushy lives inside.

In the past I've had the opportunity to spend some time in different parts of the prison system (on a professional basis). At its worst, which it ofen is, it's not about punishment and protection - it's far, far worse. It feels like the banal, steady and remorseless erosion of people's souls.

I'm all too aware that people do bad things and therefore serious things must happen to them, but the current set-up doesn't do that and it will mean continuing high rates of prison deaths.

Pretty much agree with all that. I don’t see that prison should be about punishment beyond denial of liberty. That can be done outside the prison setting for most. And when prison is needed, it needs to be more than just locking people up in small rooms 23 hours a day.


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[Berwickhibby]

I’m happy to admit that this is a failure of the SG. Our prisons are far too over crowded with people who don’t have to be there. And I’m sure Scotland has a higher prison population than the rest of the UK. There is very little rehab work done in prisons.
We need to be making far more use of home detention. It’s a lot cheaper and the money saved can be put into education programs to help offenders rejoin society.
Scotland has done well in getting our crime figures miles lower than the rUK but we need to stop using prison for all but the most serious crimes.
I’m not even sure if this is a deliberate policy choice of the SG or just something that has evolved over the years in the Scottish justice system.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The reason while Scotland’s crime figures are lower than the rest of the UK is not the tackling of crime but the manner in which crime is recorded. The Criminal Justice System in the UK including Scotland is an absolutely shambles, the cuts to budgets, introduction of PCSO’s , poor vetting, dropping of standards in education to join, appearance and spending too much time dealing with mental health issues and facebook crimes 🙄 . How often do you see officers patrolling on foot and how many people know their local Neighbourhood Officer.

The courts and punishments are pathetic when people regularly get custodial sentences for petty theft where crimes of violence seem to avoid this.

[Ozyhibby]

The reason while Scotland’s crime figures are lower than the rest of the UK is not the tackling of crime but the manner in which crime is recorded. The Criminal Justice System in the UK including Scotland is an absolutely shambles, the cuts to budgets, introduction of PCSO’s , poor vetting, dropping of standards in education to join, appearance and spending too much time dealing with mental health issues and facebook crimes [emoji849] . How often do you see officers patrolling on foot and how many people know their local Neighbourhood Officer.

The courts and punishments are pathetic when people regularly get custodial sentences for petty theft where crimes of violence seem to avoid this.

What’s the difference in the manner that crimes are recorded?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Berwickhibby]

What’s the difference in the manner that crimes are recorded?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Scottish system removed many offences that were previously recordable offences. Not wrong in my opinion as I also considered them civil offences but still considered crimes with RUK recording.

[He's here!]

Auditor general puts the boot into Scottish government accounts:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63831950

[Ozyhibby]

Auditor general puts the boot into Scottish government accounts:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63831950

Puts the boot in or offers mild pointers for the future?


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[McSwanky]

Puts the boot in or offers mild pointers for the future?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I too was interested in the "puts the boot in" take on that piece. It's an auditor's job to point out weaknesses surely. Has anyone ever undergone an audit where the auditor has turned round and gone, "aye, everything's grand, carry on" - maybe I'm just crap at my job? :greengrin

Obvuiously there are things that could be done better here, but it's not exactly a huge takedown as far as I can see...

[JimBHibees]

Auditor general puts the boot into Scottish government accounts:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63831950

Impressively relentless

[ronaldo7]

Impressively relentless

Medals don't get handed out for any old thing.

[CropleyWasGod]

I too was interested in the "puts the boot in" take on that piece. It's an auditor's job to point out weaknesses surely. Has anyone ever undergone an audit where the auditor has turned round and gone, "aye, everything's grand, carry on" - maybe I'm just crap at my job? :greengrin

Obvuiously there are things that could be done better here, but it's not exactly a huge takedown as far as I can see...

I'd say it was more the knife of the skilled surgeon....... with a couple of wee twists.

(that's the "I" that was probably the world's worst auditor :greengrin)

[Berwickhibby]

This popped up on Facebook….I will wait for screams off do you search the internet for sexual abusers that are SNP https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/shamed-ex-snp-north-lanarkshire-25660373?fbclid=IwAR2baeXSWf1_vJU16WA7uv7h-v9wEz0z9BpZDuxh3Bj3V5tQVADg-GbeTR0

[Ozyhibby]

This popped up on Facebook….I will wait for screams off do you search the internet for sexual abusers that are SNP https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/shamed-ex-snp-north-lanarkshire-25660373?fbclid=IwAR2baeXSWf1_vJU16WA7uv7h-v9wEz0z9BpZDuxh3Bj3V5tQVADg-GbeTR0

You posted that same story when it first came to light.[emoji122]


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[Berwickhibby]

You posted that same story when it first came to light.[emoji122]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Nope I posted about the Edinburgh SNP councillor …who was a sex pest

[The Modfather]

This popped up on Facebook….I will wait for screams off do you search the internet for sexual abusers that are SNP https://www.glasgowlive.co.uk/news/glasgow-news/shamed-ex-snp-north-lanarkshire-25660373?fbclid=IwAR2baeXSWf1_vJU16WA7uv7h-v9wEz0z9BpZDuxh3Bj3V5tQVADg-GbeTR0

It’s crass to use a story like that for petty points scoring. The story has nothing to do with politics.

[archie]

It’s crass to use a story like that for petty points scoring. The story has nothing to do with politics.I agree. We get the same in the Tories thread too.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Impressively relentless


Obsession

[James310]

I don't get the obsession points, look at the title of the thread. It's about the SNP.

Is everyone who posts multiple times on the Tory thread (9,000 posts and rising compared to less than 3,000 here) obsessed and relentless with the Tory's? Imagine being critical of someone posting about the Tory's on the thread about the Tory's.

I get to some the SNP is like some kind of religion though but this thread is about the SNP.

[Kato]

I don't get the obsession points, look at the title of the thread. It's about the SNP.

Is everyone who posts multiple times on the Tory thread (9,000 posts and rising compared to less than 3,000 here) obsessed and relentless with the Tory's? Imagine being critical of someone posting about the Tory's on the thread about the Tory's.

I get to some the SNP is like some kind of religion though but this thread is about the SNP.What form does the religion take?

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[LewysGot2]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63780998

Deaths in Scottish prisons at record high.

Heard the author of the report talking about it on Radio Scotland. It appears the main reason for this is what she euphemistically described as "self medication" - ie drug use in prisons

[He's here!]

Nicola Sturgeon accused over ministerial code 'clear breaches' | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23165911.nicola-sturgeon-accused-ministerial-code-clear-breaches/)

[Berwickhibby]

Nicola Sturgeon accused over ministerial code 'clear breaches' | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23165911.nicola-sturgeon-accused-ministerial-code-clear-breaches/)

Come He’s Here, it was obviously a memory lapse :greengrin

[J-C]

I don't get the obsession points, look at the title of the thread. It's about the SNP.

Is everyone who posts multiple times on the Tory thread (9,000 posts and rising compared to less than 3,000 here) obsessed and relentless with the Tory's? Imagine being critical of someone posting about the Tory's on the thread about the Tory's.

I get to some the SNP is like some kind of religion though but this thread is about the SNP.

For someone so anti SNP, you don't half post a hell of a lot about them, do you think by continually posting what you post, you're going to change people's minds.

[James310]

For someone so anti SNP, you don't half post a hell of a lot about them, do you think by continually posting what you post, you're going to change people's minds.

I couldn't care less about changing people's mind's and would find it odd if people did after reading stuff on here. Nobody is going to change anyone's mind on here.

I enjoy politics and have an opinion, sorry about that, but it's allowed isn't it?

[Since90+2]

I couldn't care less about changing people's mind's and would find it odd if people did after reading stuff on here. Nobody is going to change anyone's mind on here.

I enjoy politics and have an opinion, sorry about that, but it's allowed isn't it?

Genuine question, do you post on political forums or just here? I know you post almost exclusively on The Holy Ground when this be is predominantly a football forum.

[James310]

It's getting a bit angry and personal again, never a good sign when the discussion is about me as a person. I know I have different opinions so sorry about that. I will bow out for a bit, but this thread is supposed to be about the SNP.

[J-C]

Genuine question, do you post on political forums or just here? I know you post almost exclusively on The Holy Ground when this be is predominantly a football forum.

I've honestly never seen a post from him on football matters.

[Since90+2]

It's getting a bit angry and personal again, never a good sign when the discussion is about me as a person. I know I have different opinions so sorry about that. I will bow out for a bit, but this thread is supposed to be about the SNP.

Not sure how my post could be taken as angry or personal, but fair enough.

Maybe the break will be good for you.

[greenginger]

For someone so anti SNP, you don't half post a hell of a lot about them, do you think by continually posting what you post, you're going to change people's minds.


Do do you have a problem with news and information critical of the SNP being highlighted ?

It certainly seems to me that some posters on this site would be happy with censorship of SNP criticism which would be a very dark pathway to go down.

[J-C]

Do do you have a problem with news and information critical of the SNP being highlighted ?

It certainly seems to me that some posters on this site would be happy with censorship of SNP criticism which would be a very dark pathway to go down.

Not at all, criticise away if you think there's an argument to be had to criticise. Like any political party, they make mistakes but some posters are relentless in their anti SNP agenda.

[Rumble de Thump]

Do do you have a problem with news and information critical of the SNP being highlighted ?

It certainly seems to me that some posters on this site would be happy with censorship of SNP criticism which would be a very dark pathway to go down.

The media and opposition parties in Scotland have relentlessly tried to attack Nicola Sturgeon for years. They constantly try to sling mud in attempt to force her to resign. Their motives are completely transparent. The people who behave this way tend not to say a bad word about the Tories, for example, who have been the worst Government the UK has ever had. It's difficult to take them seriously.

[Berwickhibby]

The media and opposition parties in Scotland have relentlessly tried to attack Nicola Sturgeon for years. They constantly try to sling mud in attempt to force her to resign. Their motives are completely transparent. The people who behave this way tend not to say a bad word about the Tories, for example, who have been the worst Government the UK has ever had. It's difficult to take them seriously.

Really, I have plenty of bad words about NS, but I regularly slated Bozo 🤡, Hancock and Truss … and Sunak is also in my verbal crosshairs

[grunt]

Nicola Sturgeon accused over ministerial code 'clear breaches' | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23165911.nicola-sturgeon-accused-ministerial-code-clear-breaches/)
Yawn. Accused by a political opponent, and this is apparently big news. And it relates to the ferries too! Two grievances in one "article". A slow day at Herald Towers.

[Keith_M]

Really, I have plenty of bad words about NS, but I regularly slated Bozo 🤡, Hancock and Truss … and Sunak is also in my verbal crosshairs


I think that's fair enough, mate


:aok:

[Stairway 2 7]

Turning into pravda here

[Hibrandenburg]

For someone so anti SNP, you don't half post a hell of a lot about them, do you think by continually posting what you post, you're going to change people's minds.

Those in favour of Scotland not leaving the union have already scored a big success on here by getting the independence thread closed down, why would they stop there?

[Rumble de Thump]

Turning into pravda here

Fair observations, warranted criticism and quality journalism should always be welcomed. In fact, they should be strongly encouraged. Unfortunately, there tends to be very little of that these days.

[Berwickhibby]

Those in favour of Scotland not leaving the union have already scored a big success on here by getting the independence thread closed down, why would they stop there?

Typical one sided point of view …read the thread there were both sides of constitutional change debating …Admin closed it down due to personal digs, by guess what both sides 🙄

[greenginger]

Those in favour of Scotland not leaving the union have already scored a big success on here by getting the independence thread closed down, why would they stop there?

I think , if you looked closely you would find that the SNP lovies were equally liable for the thread being closed down.

But you seem unable to find any fault with your own chosen side.

[He's here!]

For someone so anti SNP, you don't half post a hell of a lot about them, do you think by continually posting what you post, you're going to change people's minds.

The title of the thread (like the Tory one) indicates it's a valid platform for criticism of the SNP.

[Since90+2]

The title of the thread (like the Tory one) indicates it's a valid platform for criticism of the SNP.

I think they were pointing out that particular poster posts almost entirely about Scottish independence and the SNP. Hardly ever on other threads on the Holy Ground and pretty much never on the main forum.

People are of course free to post whenever and wherever they like, but that is slightly odd IMO and does seem like a bit of an obsession with those 2 issues, given it's pretty much all they ever talk about on .net.

[He's here!]

I think , if you looked closely you would find that the SNP lovies were equally liable for the thread being closed down.

But you seem unable to find any fault with your own chosen side.

I suspect this thread is heading the same way.

[He's here!]

Kirsten Oswald: SNP MP to step down as deputy Westminster leader | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23167883.kirsten-oswald-snp-mp-step-deputy-westminster-leader/)

[archie]

Does anyone think the title of the thread (and the Tory one) doesn't help? The Labour one appears to be a bit more neutral and doesn’t appear to constrain discussion.

[Santa Cruz]

Does anyone think the title of the thread (and the Tory one) doesn't help? The Labour one appears to be a bit more neutral and doesn’t appear to constrain discussion.

That's Labour for ya = the good guys :greengrin:greengrin

[He's here!]

Does anyone think the title of the thread (and the Tory one) doesn't help? The Labour one appears to be a bit more neutral and doesn’t appear to constrain discussion.

I guess because they're currently powerless in Scotland and England they don't offer so much to get heated about.

A change in the political wind to the extent they threaten the SNP's hold in Scotland would see that change.

[Keith_M]

Does anyone think the title of the thread (and the Tory one) doesn't help? The Labour one appears to be a bit more neutral and doesn’t appear to constrain discussion.

I agree, both titles tend to invite nasty comments.

Though, TBH, I'd be struggling to post anything remotely positive on the Tory thread.

[grunt]

Nicola Sturgeon accused over ministerial code 'clear breaches' | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23165911.nicola-sturgeon-accused-ministerial-code-clear-breaches/)

Here's some whataboutery ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjDCNkzWAAEP1Pa?format=jpg&name=large

[Berwickhibby]

Here's some whataboutery ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FjDCNkzWAAEP1Pa?format=jpg&name=large

Tories and Tartan Tories both accused of ministerial misconduct…. Nothing done …shock horror …NOT

[Moulin Yarns]

Tories and Tartan Tories both accused of ministerial misconduct…. Nothing done …shock horror …NOT

Difficult to investigate the red tories for ministerial misconduct when they aren't in government right enough.

[Berwickhibby]

Difficult to investigate the red tories for ministerial misconduct when they aren't in government right enough.

Boom …deflection …expected nothing less 🤣🤣🤣🤣

[grunt]

Boom …deflection …expected nothing less 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Hardly a deflection! You can't be accused of ministerial misconduct if you're not a minister! :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

boom boom

[Hiber-nation]

Tories and Tartan Tories both accused of ministerial misconduct…. Nothing done …shock horror …NOT

Any point you make on here is rendered completely irrelevant due to your use of that utterly ridiculous term.

[Berwickhibby]

Any point you make on here is rendered completely irrelevant due to your use of that utterly ridiculous term.

Perhaps ….but it was a term used regularly to describe the SNP …but you obviously don’t like the true history of you party

[cabbageandribs1875]

Mmmmmmm tartan tories you say, huh

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/317463973_679371553590416_4215371926273057556_n.jp g?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=2seZ163p_9YAX9VzCZ_&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfBP1--aBOIJ1T-Lz_mG4pEeJHWH8B5KmtYCqtNLq8EfrQ&oe=6390050A


nuff said, next

[grunt]

Tories and Tartan Tories both accused of ministerial misconduct…. Nothing done …shock horror …NOT
43 years ago. Were you even of voting age in 1979? I know that you enjoy poking fun at people but do you really think the SNP of today is the same as it was 43 years ago? The Tory party of today is not the same as it was even 10 years ago. Time passes. Most of us can factor that into our thinking.

[Berwickhibby]

43 years ago. Were you even of voting age in 1979? I know that you enjoy poking fun at people but do you really think the SNP of today is the same as it was 43 years ago? The Tory party of today is not the same as it was even 10 years ago. Time passes. Most of us can factor that into our thinking.

Fair enough….but on this forum I have seen Labour called Red Tories and Liebour…but dare call the SNP a anything other then it gnashing of teeth and faux outrage

[Ozyhibby]

Tories and Tartan Tories both accused of ministerial misconduct…. Nothing done …shock horror …NOT

British nationalists going hard on the name calling since the Supreme Court ruling. I can take it. And give it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[HNA12]

Those in favour of Scotland not leaving the union have already scored a big success on here by getting the independence thread closed down, why would they stop there?

Just to be clear it was the behaviour of posters on both sides of the argument that got that thread closed. We run a football forum dedicated to the team we love, this section continually sucks the fun out of that. Looks like lessons haven’t been learned and the petty digs continue. Up to you guys now, we’d happily close the Holy Ground down if things don’t improve.

[Berwickhibby]

Just to be clear it was the behaviour of posters on both sides of the argument that got that thread closed. We run a football forum dedicated to the team we love, this section continually sucks the fun out of that.

Have you seen us play recently lol 😂… point taken :aok:

[Hiber-nation]

Perhaps ….but it was a term used regularly to describe the SNP …but you obviously don’t like the true history of you party

You know they are a completely different party. We are talking 19 canteen! And it is not "my party"....I hated the SNP then as well. I've voted for 3 different parties since 1979 (and no I haven't voted for that lot!). Why can't folk on here acknowledge their own side's weaknesses and give others a bit of respect? Everything is so blinkered.

[greenginger]

Just to be clear it was the behaviour of posters on both sides of the argument that got that thread closed. We run a football forum dedicated to the team we love, this section continually sucks the fun out of that. Looks like lessons haven’t been learned and the petty digs continue. Up to you guys now, we’d happily close the Holy Ground down if things don’t improve.


Hope none one of my posts came over as petty digs, I only intended to counter what was posted rather than have a go at the poster.

Just to be clear, I prefer the company of a rabid, Nat. Hibee to Lab , Lib, Tory voting Jambo any day of the week. :greengrin

[weecounty hibby]

Just to be clear it was the behaviour of posters on both sides of the argument that got that thread closed. We run a football forum dedicated to the team we love, this section continually sucks the fun out of that. Looks like lessons haven’t been learned and the petty digs continue. Up to you guys now, we’d happily close the Holy Ground down if things don’t improve.

Deleted my last post but to be honest I'm not sure about your comment on both sides. It seems one side took the hump about a particular term when it seems a far more disgraceful slur was allowed to be used for a long time. Anyhoo, deleted my post and will continue to try to be civil.

[Just Alf]

Deleted my last post but to be honest I'm not sure about your comment on both sides. It seems one side took the hump about a particular term when it seems a far more disgraceful slur was allowed to be used for a long time. Anyhoo, deleted my post and will continue to try to be civil.

Agree with this.... also thought we were civilly "getting there"

anyhoo....

on a same but different point.. some, mostly those supporting the union, have been getting a hard time for only posting on the holy ground, to be fair, there's a lot of us are similar... my own posts are mostly on here, that's because the guys on the main forum almost always stick something up I'd have posted well before I do it! :agree:

[ronaldo7]

Fair enough….but on this forum I have seen Labour called Red Tories and Liebour…but dare call the SNP a anything other then it gnashing of teeth and faux outrage

You keep saying this, but you keep doing it.

Whatever floats your ferry.

[Berwickhibby]

You keep saying this, but you keep doing it.

Whatever floats your ferry.

As do others on the other side of the constitutional coin…. But that is obviously acceptable 🙄

[ronaldo7]

As do others on the other side of the constitutional coin…. But that is obviously acceptable 🙄

We don't have two sides of the constitutional coin.

The SC told us differently.

We're locked in.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Alison Thewliss puts her name in the hat, i do think she does a heck of a lot of good work, but maybe not made for what has now become common practice, jeers from the obnoxious t)ts on the opposite benches, yes, the ones where cowardy Hoyle is petrified to bring under order, instead keeping his venom for SNP politicians

[Glory Lurker]

Alison Thewliss puts her name in the hat, i do think she does a heck of a lot of good work, but maybe not made for what has now become common practice, jeers from the obnoxious t)ts on the opposite benches, yes, the ones where cowardy Hoyle is petrified to bring under order, instead keeping his venom for SNP politicians

She's not up to it.

I know nothing about leadership options as I pay as much attention to day to day politics as I do to non-Hibs teams but whoever comes up next needs to be as competent a speaker as the Skye Hibee is.

[HNA12]

Deleted my last post but to be honest I'm not sure about your comment on both sides. It seems one side took the hump about a particular term when it seems a far more disgraceful slur was allowed to be used for a long time. Anyhoo, deleted my post and will continue to try to be civil.


Again, we are here to run a football forum, not a political one. We do however find ourselves discussing things on this bit far too much to ensure we are taking a neutral position. If you think we are getting it wrong though we can save ourselves a lot of time and grief by closing it down, we don’t need any more criticism than we already get.

[He's here!]

'Yes movement is a mess and needs taken out of the hands of SNP' | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23168307.yes-movement-mess-needs-taken-hands-snp/)

[Jones28]

Nicola Sturgeon accused over ministerial code 'clear breaches' | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23165911.nicola-sturgeon-accused-ministerial-code-clear-breaches/)

Ferries again eh?

[JeMeSouviens]

'Yes movement is a mess and needs taken out of the hands of SNP' | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23168307.yes-movement-mess-needs-taken-hands-snp/)

I find this habit of ultra-supporters-of-the-union posting stuff on here criticising the SNP from the more radical side of Indy particularly distasteful. When they would actually run a million miles from the policies that these folk propose. It would be like me criticising the Tories by approvingly posting stuff from Farage etc. It's just crap trolling really.

[grunt]

I didn't know this. Seems odd if the SNP leader in WM sets himself above party policy?


Allies of Stephen Flynn have said he would challenge the First Minister’s ‘crazy’ opposition to drilling new North Sea oil and gas fields.

https://t.co/kVVitgzmOP

[Ozyhibby]

I didn't know this. Seems odd if the SNP leader in WM sets himself above party policy?



https://t.co/kVVitgzmOP

Will be interesting to see which way this vote goes.


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[He's here!]

I find this habit of ultra-supporters-of-the-union posting stuff on here criticising the SNP from the more radical side of Indy particularly distasteful. When they would actually run a million miles from the policies that these folk propose. It would be like me criticising the Tories by approvingly posting stuff from Farage etc. It's just crap trolling really.

I take your point, but the reason I posted that link was more in relation to the fact there has been noticeably more open criticism of the SNP of late by those who form part the independence movement than simply the more usual outlets. You can always rely, say, on Wings over Scotland, to slate Sturgeon at every opportunity but this latest from CW hints at a wider schism. The media also appear to be particularly well informed about the internal goings-on which led to Blackford standing down. Bearing in mind how tight the SNP's toe the line policy has been down the years one assumes such leaks can only have come from within the party.

[Stairway 2 7]

I didn't know this. Seems odd if the SNP leader in WM sets himself above party policy?



https://t.co/kVVitgzmOP

Both himself and Mhairi Black have been having little digs at NS. Mhari saying NS was wrong to talk of colony and today saying she's never had a conversation with her and NS should change that with new starts. MB apparently going for deputy Westminster leader with Stephen flynn, so it will be interesting to watch

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/snp-mp-mhairi-black-i-have-never-had-a-proper-conversation-with-nicola-sturgeon

[cabbageandribs1875]

She's not up to it.

I know nothing about leadership options as I pay as much attention to day to day politics as I do to non-Hibs teams but whoever comes up next needs to be as competent a speaker as the Skye Hibee is.

i like her, i think she's very competent in her position but after 2nd thoughts you may be right, i see she's chosen Stuart Mcdonald to be her Deputy, Cumbernauld, Kilsyth & Kirkintilloch, Stephen Flynn has went for Mhairi Black


i just can't take to Stephen Flynn but he knows he will garner a lot of support from other MP's with Mhari black, i love her passion but, Mmm i just can't decide who would be the better pairing


joanna cherry would have been great as well but i have a wee sneaky feeling she has leanings towards Alba, i may be wrong of course

[Ozyhibby]

i like her, i think she's very competent in her position but after 2nd thoughts you may be right, i see she's chosen Stuart Mcdonald to be her Deputy, Cumbernauld, Kilsyth & Kirkintilloch, Stephen Flynn has went for Mhairi Black


i just can't take to Stephen Flynn but he knows he will garner a lot of support from other MP's with Mhari black, i love her passion but, Mmm i just can't decide who would be the better pairing


joanna cherry would have been great as well but i have a wee sneaky feeling she has leanings towards Alba, i may be wrong of course

As neither side are making public policy differences, it seems that tomorrow will just be a popularity contest. Who has been working hard with their colleagues over the last couple of years etc. I would have to say Flynn must surely start as favourite given he appears to have been working on this longer and will surely have built up a level of support. Enough that made Blackford decide to stand down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mr Grieves]

Both himself and Mhairi Black have been having little digs at NS. Mhari saying NS was wrong to talk of colony and today saying she's never had a conversation with her and NS should change that with new starts. MB apparently going for deputy Westminster leader with Stephen flynn, so it will be interesting to watch

https://www.politicshome.com/news/article/snp-mp-mhairi-black-i-have-never-had-a-proper-conversation-with-nicola-sturgeon

Today? You've linked to an article that's 5 years old

[Stairway 2 7]

Today? You've linked to an article that's 5 years old

Do apologise it was on my roll in Google news no idea why if its old, says article updated 2 minutes ago, so must just be the algorithm

[cabbageandribs1875]

As neither side are making public policy differences, it seems that tomorrow will just be a popularity contest. Who has been working hard with their colleagues over the last couple of years etc. I would have to say Flynn must surely start as favourite given he appears to have been working on this longer and will surely have built up a level of support. Enough that made Blackford decide to stand down.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


i think what put me off Flynn,rightly or wrongly, was his stance on windfall taxes on energy companies profits, i don't think he fancies that, and when even Blis's only Scottish MP rips into him for that stance i think he should rethink on that.

because i have only watched parliament live a handful of times due to Lyndsey Hoyle not shouting for a bit of order when the jeering from the opposite benches start, i really can't make a solid decision on which ones are the right fit, but i HAVE saw quite a few clips when Allison Thewliss has the floor, think it may well be Flynn/Black though

[Stairway 2 7]

I think joanna cherry is head and shoulders above most politicians in Westminster, she would be fearless against Starmer and Sunak. She also has no chance due to constantly attacking the SNP position on GRA. Flynn should win it. I think he's weak, but Mhairi Black is great

[archie]

I didn't know this. Seems odd if the SNP leader in WM sets himself above party policy?



https://t.co/kVVitgzmOP

I know my view will be as welcome as a fart in a spacesuit, but I know someone who is pally with a Glasgow MP. For some time there has apparently been tension between Westminster and Edinburgh. I don't know if that means FM or maybe SNP officials. There was concern about the phasing out of oil and gas (an issue for Flynn's seat). The chat was this was a mix of politics and also how we respond to the energy crisis and energy security. Thewless Vs Flynn portrayed as loyalist Vs more independent Westminster voice. Is any of this true. No idea, but it does seem to chime with some of the recent noise and chatter.

[Since90+2]

Pretty damning, and frightening, article on the BBC regarding the state of Scotland's A&E departments:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63859908

[James310]

Stephen Flynn wins the election.

Mhairi Black his deputy.

[Ozyhibby]

Stephen Flynn wins the election.

Mhairi Black his deputy.

Wish I could say interesting but I’ve no idea what either candidate had stood for. Good luck to him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[He's here!]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/07/sturgeon-told-scotlands-climate-targets-are-in-danger-of-being-meaningless

Sturgeon's climate targets branded meaningless.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2022/dec/07/sturgeon-told-scotlands-climate-targets-are-in-danger-of-being-meaningless

Sturgeon's climate targets branded meaningless.

A bit difficult to meet targets without being able to have an energy generation policy.

[Ozyhibby]

Stephen Flynn wins the election.

Mhairi Black his deputy.

Decent start today. [emoji106]


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[Stairway 2 7]

A bit difficult to meet targets without being able to have an energy generation policy.

The common weal have been pushing the government for years to have a system where we make the profits from our resources. The Welsh government are using many of their ideas. Sadly scot gov sold our soul and wind for a pittance to massive energy producing government's.

Well worth a read on how we could have got the profits from generation.
https://archive.ph/JXUOr

[Moulin Yarns]

The common weal have been pushing the government for years to have a system where we make the profits from our resources. The Welsh government are using many of their ideas. Sadly scot gov sold our soul and wind for a pittance to massive energy producing government's.

Well worth a read on how we could have got the profits from generation.
https://archive.ph/JXUOr

As pointed out when you previously claimed it was sold, it wasn't, they were leased, and, like a football player sell on clause, Scotland will be paid more when the off-shore wind comes on stream.

We have no control over generation!

[Santa Cruz]

The common weal have been pushing the government for years to have a system where we make the profits from our resources. The Welsh government are using many of their ideas. Sadly scot gov sold our soul and wind for a pittance to massive energy producing government's.

Well worth a read on how we could have got the profits from generation.
https://archive.ph/JXUOr

I wonder if that is how the Welsh Gov are funding a much broader/far reaching fuel support scheme than us?

https://gov.wales/wales-fuel-support-scheme-2022-2023

[Stairway 2 7]

As pointed out when you previously claimed it was sold, it wasn't, they were leased, and, like a football player sell on clause, Scotland will be paid more when the off-shore wind comes on stream.

We have no control over generation!

You didn't read it did you, your a fan of common weal usually too when they support what you say.

It was leased at a pittance and will make billion for shell and BP billions, its just a rehash of our oil.

Our national energy company we were meant to set up could have bought control of the wind generation companies that we would lease the land to. This is the plan the Welsh government are going with. They will make the profit from generation and supply

[JeMeSouviens]

Decent start today. [emoji106]


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There's something familiar about his voice. I think he sounds like a young Dick Donnelly, but we'd need to have PMQs at Dens Park to be sure. :dunno:

[Moulin Yarns]

You didn't read it did you, your a fan of common weal usually too when they support what you say.

It was leased at a pittance and will make billion for shell and BP billions, its just a rehash of our oil.

Our national energy company we were meant to set up could have bought control of the wind generation companies that we would lease the land to. This is the plan the Welsh government are going with. They will make the profit from generation and supply

I'm busy decorating, but found this

https://www.gov.scot/policies/energy-efficiency/the-national-public-energy-agency/#:~:text=We%20are%20establishing%20a%20new,decarbo nisation%20of%20heat%20across%20Scotland.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm busy decorating, but found this

https://www.gov.scot/policies/energy-efficiency/the-national-public-energy-agency/#:~:text=We%20are%20establishing%20a%20new,decarbo nisation%20of%20heat%20across%20Scotland.

Doesn't say much. In reality common weal have been pushing for years for us not to give away our resources on the cheap. Well done the Welsh government(Cross party) for listening

[Moulin Yarns]

Doesn't say much. In reality common weal have been pushing for years for us not to give away our resources on the cheap. Well done the Welsh government(Cross party) for listening

More information on Scottish offshore auction.


https://windeurope.org/newsroom/press-releases/scotland-awards-seabed-rights-for-massive-amounts-of-offshore-wind-most-of-it-floating/#:~:text=The%20Crown%20Estate%20Scotland%20has,25% 20GW%20of%20offshore%20wind.


The option fees are much lower than in the UK’s recent Offshore Wind Lease Round 4. Scotland chose a more sensible tender design with a maximum price ceiling of £100,000/km². This has avoided bidding at very high prices – which keeps the costs of offshore wind low for consumers. As seabed leasing costs are usually passed on to the electricity consumer, a price ceiling ensures that new offshore wind volumes are delivered at the lowest cost for consumers and taxpayers.





The projects are expected to secure at least £1bn in supply chain investment for every 1GW of capacity proposed. They will also generate around £700 million in revenue for the Scottish Government and represent the world’s first commercial scale opportunity for floating offshore wind. As well as helping complete Scotland’s own journey to net zero, creating thousands of jobs in the process, our offshore wind resource also has the potential to position Scotland as a major exporter of renewable energy, including green hydrogen.



And it's not all about wind.

https://www.scottishrenewables.com/news/1107-auction-delivers-3gw-of-clean-energy-for-scotland-with-tidal-power-projects-winning-contracts-for-first-time

[He's here!]

The common weal have been pushing the government for years to have a system where we make the profits from our resources. The Welsh government are using many of their ideas. Sadly scot gov sold our soul and wind for a pittance to massive energy producing government's.

Well worth a read on how we could have got the profits from generation.
https://archive.ph/JXUOr

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/07/nicola-sturgeons-claim-world-leader-climate-change-tatters-watchdog/

Sturgeon's claims to be a world leader in the field are 'in tatters' according to Labour.

[Stairway 2 7]

More information on Scottish offshore auction.


https://windeurope.org/newsroom/press-releases/scotland-awards-seabed-rights-for-massive-amounts-of-offshore-wind-most-of-it-floating/#:~:text=The%20Crown%20Estate%20Scotland%20has,25% 20GW%20of%20offshore%20wind.


The option fees are much lower than in the UK’s recent Offshore Wind Lease Round 4. Scotland chose a more sensible tender design with a maximum price ceiling of £100,000/km². This has avoided bidding at very high prices – which keeps the costs of offshore wind low for consumers. As seabed leasing costs are usually passed on to the electricity consumer, a price ceiling ensures that new offshore wind volumes are delivered at the lowest cost for consumers and taxpayers.





The projects are expected to secure at least £1bn in supply chain investment for every 1GW of capacity proposed. They will also generate around £700 million in revenue for the Scottish Government and represent the world’s first commercial scale opportunity for floating offshore wind. As well as helping complete Scotland’s own journey to net zero, creating thousands of jobs in the process, our offshore wind resource also has the potential to position Scotland as a major exporter of renewable energy, including green hydrogen.



And it's not all about wind.

https://www.scottishrenewables.com/news/1107-auction-delivers-3gw-of-clean-energy-for-scotland-with-tidal-power-projects-winning-contracts-for-first-time

A fraction of what we would have got if we followed common weals plan like the Welsh are. What do you think of common weals plan

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2022/12/07/nicola-sturgeons-claim-world-leader-climate-change-tatters-watchdog/

Sturgeon's claims to be a world leader in the field are 'in tatters' according to Labour.

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1600556209668505635?s=46&t=bIoltFVIuPqawOgyeaqebA

You’d prefer we follow the UK route.[emoji122]


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[Berwickhibby]

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1600556209668505635?s=46&t=bIoltFVIuPqawOgyeaqebA

You’d prefer we follow the UK route.[emoji122]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It’s to provide coke for making steel, or should we continue to import coke �� At least this provides jobs and industry in the UK … Steel will still be needed to be produced for decades yet.

[Ozyhibby]

It’s to provide coke for making steel, or should we continue to import coke �� At least this provides jobs and industry in the UK … Steel will still be needed to be produced for decades yet.

You can make steel without coal.


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[Berwickhibby]

You can make steel without coal.


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But not enough to match the demand required, until improvements in mass production is found coke will still be needed.

Now, nearly all new steel globally is produced using iron oxide and coking coal. Coking coal is usually bituminous-rank coal with special qualities that are needed in the blast furnace. While an increasing amount of steel is being recycled, there is currently no technology to make steel at scale without using coke.

[Berwickhibby]

On a cheerier note, I see Pete Wishart has resigned from the front benches :greengrin

[grunt]

It’s to provide coke for making steel, or should we continue to import coke �� At least this provides jobs and industry in the UK … Steel will still be needed to be produced for decades yet.
Former CEO of British Steel Ron Deelan says this mine is "completely unnecessary".

[Jack]

Former CEO of British Steel Ron Deelan says this mine is "completely unnecessary".

With the continual decline of the steel industry in the UK there probably won't be a need for a CEO of British Steel in the not to distant future!

[grunt]

It’s to provide coke for making steel, or should we continue to import coke �� At least this provides jobs and industry in the UK … Steel will still be needed to be produced for decades yet.Good speech about the mine from Labour's Lisa Nandy, here:

https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1600854273587171328?s=20&t=aIDvGp3SH5w7RqWii1O7Ng

[He's here!]

On a cheerier note, I see Pete Wishart has resigned from the front benches :greengrin

Senior SNP MP criticises new Westminster leader - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-63902503)

Yet talk of a split is nonsense apparently.

[Berwickhibby]

Senior SNP MP criticises new Westminster leader - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-63902503)

Yet talk of a split is nonsense apparently.

Now now ….nothing to see here…move along

[Ozyhibby]

Now now ….nothing to see here…move along

Enlighten us. What is to see?


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[Hibrandenburg]

Enlighten us. What is to see?


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The smoking gun that proves the SNP are about to implode :dunno:

[CropleyWasGod]

I've never really understood the hype about members of a political party having differences.

It's a workplace, full of driven, ambitious and (in many cases) duplicitous and self-serving individuals. I'd be more surprised at (and probably suspicious of) parties who agreed with each other on every little thing.

[Stairway 2 7]

Stuc with some good ideas on generating wealth. Your not going to get that with snp or labour. With independence we might get a left wing choice though, I'd say our only chance of one

https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottishTUC/status/1599794576361164801

ScottishTUC
💰Scotland has wealth. It's the rich who have it. We can redistribute it & raise £3.3 billion for those in need.

📈The Scottish Government must end the excuses & be progressive within #ScotBudget.

📄Fairer Taxes for a Fairer Future shows how

These are progressive plans that need a progressive government to implement them.

🛡️Devolution cannot be used to deflect. These proposals can be achieved – here and now – with the powers that currently exist to our parliament

During the pandemic, the rich got richer.

The Scottish Government can rebalance our economy in favour of working people

It's simply not the case that the Scottish Parliament is completely powerless.

By April 2026, we can raise £1.4 billion from a wealth tax.

Find out more and read our other recommendations here: c

https://stuc.org.uk/files/Reports/

[Ozyhibby]

Stuc with some good ideas on generating wealth. Your not going to get that with snp or labour. With independence we might get a left wing choice though, I'd say our only chance of one

https://mobile.twitter.com/ScottishTUC/status/1599794576361164801

ScottishTUC
[emoji383]Scotland has wealth. It's the rich who have it. We can redistribute it & raise £3.3 billion for those in need.

[emoji409]The Scottish Government must end the excuses & be progressive within #ScotBudget.

[emoji405]Fairer Taxes for a Fairer Future shows how

These are progressive plans that need a progressive government to implement them.

[emoji2924]Devolution cannot be used to deflect. These proposals can be achieved – here and now – with the powers that currently exist to our parliament

During the pandemic, the rich got richer.

The Scottish Government can rebalance our economy in favour of working people

It's simply not the case that the Scottish Parliament is completely powerless.

By April 2026, we can raise £1.4 billion from a wealth tax.

Find out more and read our other recommendations here: c

https://stuc.org.uk/files/Reports/

Is a wealth tax within the power of the parliament?


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[marinello59]

I've never really understood the hype about members of a political party having differences.

It's a workplace, full of driven, ambitious and (in many cases) duplicitous and self-serving individuals. I'd be more surprised at (and probably suspicious of) parties who agreed with each other on every little thing.

On that front the SNP have been a phenomenally well disciplined party who have managed to keep internal divisions hidden from view for years now. It helped that party rules specifically outlawed public criticism of other members but it’s been some achievement. So it is noteworthy when the coup that definitely wasn’t happening happens and some senior party figures speak out against each other.

[CropleyWasGod]

Is a wealth tax within the power of the parliament?


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That depends on how you define it.

If, as I think it's referred to in the various articles I've read, you mean "tax high earners more", then yes we do.

My understanding of WT, though, is taxing assets held by high net-worth individuals, or using Inheritance Tax etc. We don't have those powers.

[Stairway 2 7]

Is a wealth tax within the power of the parliament?


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They want councils to, more details here. Wealth tax is just a small part of their plan. It's all pie in the sky though as its a vote killer

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63904942.amp

[CropleyWasGod]

On that front the SNP have been a phenomenally well disciplined party who have managed to keep internal divisions hidden from view for years now. It helped that party rules specifically outlawed public criticism of other members but it’s been some achievement. So it is noteworthy when the coup that definitely wasn’t happening happens and some senior party figures speak out against each other.

Yeah, agree on all that.

But do the public really care? Does it lose votes? As far as I can see it just gives commentators something to commentate on, and opponents something to sneer about.

[Berwickhibby]

Enlighten us. What is to see?


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Nothing…exactly as I said

[Stairway 2 7]

Kirsty blackman msp is getting stick today. She's accused quite rightly imo, of trying to be like us and finding ways to keep warm rather than using the heating. The difference is she is on 85k plus expenses

https://mobile.twitter.com/KirstySNP/status/1600780881580331010

[marinello59]

Yeah, agree on all that.

But do the public really care? Does it lose votes? As far as I can see it just gives commentators something to commentate on, and opponents something to sneer about.

I don’t think this will lose the SNP any votes. It takes a serious falling out and splits like we have seen recently in the Tory party for the polls to show a difference.

[grunt]

Kirsty blackman msp is getting stick today. She's accused quite rightly imo, of trying to be like us and finding ways to keep warm rather than using the heating. The difference is she is on 85k plus expenses
So because she's on £85k (apparently) she doesn't need to be careful with money? What a bizarre view.

[Ozyhibby]

So because she's on £85k (apparently) she doesn't need to be careful with money? What a bizarre view.

Not to mention environmental concerns, not wanting to help push up gas prices for others or just plain pig headedness in not wanting to send more money to the gas companies.
My heating has been on a lot less this year and it’s not because I can’t pay.


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[Stairway 2 7]

So because she's on £85k (apparently) she doesn't need to be careful with money? What a bizarre view.

When people will die this winter the cosplay as one of us is boring. Apparently ha not hard to find out it's 84k actually and expenses on top. If a tory mp or a celebrity did it you would tell them to keep it to themselves

[grunt]

When people will die this winter the cosplay as one of us is boring. This is a very strange comment.


If a tory mp or a celebrity did it you would tell them to keep it to themselves
Oh you know what I would say, do you?

Your posts have gone a bit strange recently, I used to think you were one of the sensible ones.

[Stairway 2 7]

This is a very strange comment.


Oh you know what I would say, do you?

Your posts have gone a bit strange recently, I used to think you were one of the sensible ones.

And yours are as non partisan than having a conversation with NS herself

[J-C]

And yours are as non partisan than having a conversation with NS herself


I find it strange that you don't realise that a strong SNP supporter would generally support his/her party nearly all the time against posts that have a go at the party, what exactly are you expecting?

[Stairway 2 7]

I find it strange that you don't realise that a strong SNP supporter would generally support his/her party nearly all the time against posts that have a go at the party, what exactly are you expecting?

That's nuts to me. I went from labour and have voted snp for years and will do in future due to independence. I don't treat my parties like a football team. It's cult like to not question and criticise your party, especially if they are in power.

Snp are really worlds better than the tories, that's obvious to most. They are also a big business neolib party and look forward to them departing post independence

[Ozyhibby]

It’s to provide coke for making steel, or should we continue to import coke �� At least this provides jobs and industry in the UK … Steel will still be needed to be produced for decades yet.

I just read 85% of the coal from this mine will be for export?


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[Berwickhibby]

I just read 85% of the coal from this mine will be for export?


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If that’s the case then it should not go ahead, the original reports I read was it was to produce coal/coke to support The British Steel Industry

[grunt]

If that’s the case then it should not go ahead, the original reports I read was it was to produce coal/coke to support The British Steel Industry
You really need to stop reading the Daily Mail, it's not good for you.

[McSwanky]

If that’s the case then it should not go ahead, the original reports I read was it was to produce coal/coke to support The British Steel Industry

It's to support the steel industry, just not necessarily the British one.

https://www.reuters.com/world/uk/britain-approves-first-new-coal-mine-decades-2022-12-07/

[Andy Bee]

I just read 85% of the coal from this mine will be for export?


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Tory MP Robin Walker trying to explain how much this coal will reduce the environmental footprint of UK steel. You guessed it, absolute BS

83% of it is to be exported as British Steel plants can't use it, European steel can't use it either because it's too high sulphur.

https://twitter.com/Zero_4/status/1600834835219718145

[He's here!]

SNP MP Chris Law quits Stephen Flynn's Westminster frontbench | The National (https://www.thenational.scot/news/23180173.snp-mp-chris-law-quits-stephen-flynns-westminster-frontbench/)

[Hibrandenburg]

The whole coal stuff is so 19th century, but I guess that's where the Tories are trying to transport us to, so job done.

[LewysGot2]

Yeah, agree on all that.

But do the public really care? Does it lose votes? As far as I can see it just gives commentators something to commentate on, and opponents something to sneer about.

Conversely, if it doesn’t really matter then it’s odd that the rules enforcing the almost iron grip on quashing open dissent were deemed necessary? :confused:

Someone, somewhere in HQ at the SNP must’ve felt it was important?

[CropleyWasGod]

Conversely, if it doesn’t really matter then it’s odd that the rules enforcing the almost iron grip on quashing open dissent were deemed necessary? :confused:

Someone, somewhere in HQ at the SNP must’ve felt it was important?

I was talking generally about all parties.

If they think it's important, so be it. I just don't see that it's all that important to the voters.

[Berwickhibby]

You really need to stop reading the Daily Mail, it's not good for you.

What makes you think I read that rag….it’s full of crap along with the Telegraph and the National

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63904942

Much to agree with in here. I think the SG will need to start thinking about some of these options. I think public opinion is very much with the workers and I don’t see it changing. Better to get ahead of things and get deals done. And I think it’s also the right thing to do.


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[grunt]

If that’s the case then it should not go ahead, the original reports I read was it was to produce coal/coke to support The British Steel Industry


What makes you think I read that rag….it’s full of crap along with the Telegraph and the National
Well you're getting your fake news from somewhere, and the DM was a possible source. Obviously not, since you don't read it.

[Skol]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-63904942

Much to agree with in here. I think the SG will need to start thinking about some of these options. I think public opinion is very much with the workers and I don’t see it changing. Better to get ahead of things and get deals done. And I think it’s also the right thing to do.


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I thought higher taxes in Scotland was project fear !

[Ozyhibby]

I thought higher taxes in Scotland was project fear !

Who said that?
Within our current set up, we have two choices. Either put up taxes to pay for our services or cut those services. I’m confident the public will want to keep their services. It’s just unfortunate the UK govt will pocket the increase in NI that flows from any new pay deals paid for by Scottish taxpayers.


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[Skol]

Who said that?
Within our current set up, we have two choices. Either put up taxes to pay for our services or cut those services. I’m confident the public will want to keep their services. It’s just unfortunate the UK govt will pocket the increase in NI that flows from any new pay deals paid for by Scottish taxpayers.


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That was a yes campaign standard response.

[Skol]

On a more serious note, some of the taxation could be problematic for the SNP if it started to hit middle earners more than it does now.

The wealth tax in particular if it hit people who are asset rich and cash poor cou led be problematic and you would need to work out how to actually direct it to people when they have the money. I,e on sale of a property or starting to take private pensions. Taxing those assets before they are realised would be difficult for many people.

[He's here!]

Jim McColl backs bid to expose 'truth' of ferry fiasco - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-63921383)

[Ozyhibby]

On a more serious note, some of the taxation could be problematic for the SNP if it started to hit middle earners more than it does now.

The wealth tax in particular if it hit people who are asset rich and cash poor cou led be problematic and you would need to work out how to actually direct it to people when they have the money. I,e on sale of a property or starting to take private pensions. Taxing those assets before they are realised would be difficult for many people.

I doubt they have the power for the wealth one anyway.


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[CropleyWasGod]

I doubt they have the power for the wealth one anyway.


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We don't.

[WeeRussell]

Jim McColl backs bid to expose 'truth' of ferry fiasco - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-63921383)

You’re ferry, ferry persistent.

[Bostonhibby]

You’re ferry, ferry persistent.It remains about the same amount that baroness Mone seems to have plundered with her visit to the PPE trough. Offset that then move onto the rest of the blown / disappearing offshore Billions?

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[Skol]

I doubt they have the power for the wealth one anyway.


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Did the greens not have a wealth tax in their manifesto? I agree though it’s not likely to be one available under current arrangements.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20221210/2a5e5a0b6565c4dc7674cc90c0a264e3.jpg
New SNP front bench at Westminster.


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[James310]

Did the greens not have a wealth tax in their manifesto? I agree though it’s not likely to be one available under current arrangements.

They did, but it was very wooly lacked any detail.

A MILLIONAIRES TAX
With the wealthiest 10% of Scots holding almost half of the total wealth, the Scottish Greens believe that we need to proactively tackle the profound structural economic inequality that holds back the economy.

We will therefore seek to introduce a 1% annual wealth tax for millionaires. This will be a tax on all wealth and assets above the £1m threshold, including property, land, pensions, and other assets. Such a tax would only apply to the wealthiest 10% in society, with an average household in Scotland owning approximately £233k in assets.

While the ideal would be a UK or Scotland wide wealth tax, this would require UK government consent. If that is not forthcoming, as might be expected, then we will explore the possibility of empowering and supporting Scottish local authorities to introduce wealth taxes within their own areas.

[greenginger]

They did, but it was very wooly lacked any detail.

A MILLIONAIRES TAX
With the wealthiest 10% of Scots holding almost half of the total wealth, the Scottish Greens believe that we need to proactively tackle the profound structural economic inequality that holds back the economy.

We will therefore seek to introduce a 1% annual wealth tax for millionaires. This will be a tax on all wealth and assets above the £1m threshold, including property, land, pensions, and other assets. Such a tax would only apply to the wealthiest 10% in society, with an average household in Scotland owning approximately £233k in assets.

While the ideal would be a UK or Scotland wide wealth tax, this would require UK government consent. If that is not forthcoming, as might be expected, then we will explore the possibility of empowering and supporting Scottish local authorities to introduce wealth taxes within their own areas.


Anyone remember the 60’s and 70’s with the labour government taxing the rich till they squeak. 95 pence in the pound top rate of tax.

What happened , brain drain it was called. A huge chunk of the nations talent simply moved abroad.

Its a hell of a lot easier to move now a days so any wealth tax should be considered carefully.

[degenerated]

Jim McColl backs bid to expose 'truth' of ferry fiasco - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-63921383)Is that the Jim McColl that claimed he hadn't signed a contract?

[He's here!]

You’re ferry, ferry persistent.

Workforce fears Scots fiasco ferries won't ever sail | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/23169162.workforce-fears-scots-fiasco-ferries-wont-ever-sail/)

[grunt]

Workforce fears Scots fiasco ferries won't ever sail | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/23169162.workforce-fears-scots-fiasco-ferries-wont-ever-sail/)If that guy ever wrote a positive article about Scotland I think the world just might explode. He's seriously negative. Also, the sheer brass neck to mention in his negative press article the comment from the worker that the constant negative articles in the press are hard to bear.

[WhileTheChief..]

Anyone remember the 60’s and 70’s with the labour government taxing the rich till they squeak. 95 pence in the pound top rate of tax.

What happened , brain drain it was called. A huge chunk of the nations talent simply moved abroad.

Its a hell of a lot easier to move now a days so any wealth tax should be considered carefully.


I'd like to see the Gov introduce a form of wealth tax instead of basing things on income. IHT here is a joke and needs completely re-thought out.

No idea how it would work in practice though. If it was simple, there would be countries doing it effectively.

[Ozyhibby]

I'd like to see the Gov introduce a form of wealth tax instead of basing things on income. IHT here is a joke and needs completely re-thought out.

No idea how it would work in practice though. If it was simple, there would be countries doing it effectively.

Very difficult to do. We should though tax dividend income at the same level as income from work. We can introduce luxury goods taxes so that the wealthy pay more and also tax houses worth more than £1m much more heavily. There are lots of small ways to get the rich to pay more without a wealth tax.


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[Kato]

Very difficult to do. We should though tax dividend income at the same level as income from work. We can introduce luxury goods taxes so that the wealthy pay more and also tax houses worth more than £1m much more heavily. There are lots of small ways to get the rich to pay more without a wealth tax.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAnd a wealth tax doesn't have to be 95%.

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[He's here!]

If that guy ever wrote a positive article about Scotland I think the world just might explode. He's seriously negative. Also, the sheer brass neck to mention in his negative press article the comment from the worker that the constant negative articles in the press are hard to bear.

Whether or not folk see these stories as a deliberately negative towards the Scottish government (and I guess they're easy enough to shrug off when the SNP probably doesn't rely on votes from the small islands population), it's fair to say you'd be mighty hacked off if your livelihood on the islands depended on the current fleet being fit for purpose, as this hotelier points out:

Uist ferry sails in daylight only due to radar fault - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-63928372)

[greenginger]

And a wealth tax doesn't have to be 95%.

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Its obvious a wealth tax doesn’t need to be 95% but there is a tipping point where the country loses more tax revenue than it gains if the rate is too high and the threshold too low.

[Smartie]

Its obvious a wealth tax doesn’t need to be 95% but there is a tipping point where the country loses more tax revenue than it gains if the rate is too high and the threshold too low.

Sure, but I think that when the gap between the haves and the have nots is getting in increasingly wider, we need to be a bit sceptical about the narrative that any such tax would lead to a brain drain.

If the rich folk are smart, they'll suck up 1% or so knowing that in some way it's likely to come back to them anyway rather than tear their lives up and move abroad to avoid the tax.

[Moulin Yarns]

Whether or not folk see these stories as a deliberately negative towards the Scottish government (and I guess they're easy enough to shrug off when the SNP probably doesn't rely on votes from the small islands population), it's fair to say you'd be mighty hacked off if your livelihood on the islands depended on the current fleet being fit for purpose, as this hotelier points out:

Uist ferry sails in daylight only due to radar fault - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-63928372)

Fortunately there are other ways to get to the Uists, the Mallaig to Lochboisdale one is not the best way to get there, in my opinion.

[Ozyhibby]

Its obvious a wealth tax doesn’t need to be 95% but there is a tipping point where the country loses more tax revenue than it gains if the rate is too high and the threshold too low.

Would need to be less than 1% in order to not change behaviour. Could still bring in a fair bit of money.


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[grunt]

... it's fair to say you'd be mighty hacked off if your livelihood on the islands depended on the current fleet being fit for purpose
Which is presumably why the Scottish Govt is trying to do something about it rather than carping from the sidelines.

[He's here!]

Which is presumably why the Scottish Govt is trying to do something about it rather than carping from the sidelines.

Trying and failing dismally.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/nhs-scotland-staff-vote-to-accept-improved-pay-offer-unite-the-union-confirms

64% in favour of accepting latest offer...

Well done to all sides for getting it done.

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/nhs-scotland-staff-vote-to-accept-improved-pay-offer-unite-the-union-confirms

64% in favour of accepting latest offer...

Well done to all sides for getting it done.

Wonderful news. We’ll done to the SG and the unions in getting round the table. Strikes would have been a nightmare. Hopefully deals can be done now with other sectors. [emoji1696][emoji1696][emoji1696]


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[ronaldo7]

Wonderful news. We’ll done to the SG and the unions in getting round the table. Strikes would have been a nightmare. Hopefully deals can be done now with other sectors. [emoji1696][emoji1696][emoji1696]


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Jackie Bailey will be delighted. 😂

[Stairway 2 7]

Pretty good offer, brilliant news. Puts down the idea that workers are holding governments to ransom and demanding 12% ect. Hopefully scot gov actions pressure uk gov, but I'd doubt it

[Moulin Yarns]

Pretty good offer, brilliant news. Puts down the idea that workers are holding governments to ransom and demanding 12% ect. Hopefully scot gov actions pressure uk gov, but I'd doubt it

Was raised in Westminster by Steven Bonnar.

[He's here!]

I know the headline will be enough to prevent most on here bothering to read this, but McKenna's piece about the changing of the guard strikes me as more insightful than most:

Nicola Sturgeon's authority is starting to ebb away | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/23184350.nicola-sturgeons-authority-starting-ebb-away/)

[JeMeSouviens]

I know the headline will be enough to prevent most on here bothering to read this, but McKenna's piece about the changing of the guard strikes me as more insightful than most:

Nicola Sturgeon's authority is starting to ebb away | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/23184350.nicola-sturgeons-authority-starting-ebb-away/)

A shufty through his twitter timeline (aside from all the Celtic guff) makes it pretty clear what his motivation is: he's obviously picked the GC side in the ongoing GRA battle of the culture wars.

[Ozyhibby]

The beginning of the end for NS has been going on for about 5 years now.[emoji849]


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[He's here!]

A shufty through his twitter timeline (aside from all the Celtic guff) makes it pretty clear what his motivation is: he's obviously picked the GC side in the ongoing GRA battle of the culture wars.

The GRA battle doesn't strike me as the dominant feature of the article? Or his criticism of Mhairi Black tied in to that?

[grunt]

Trying and failing dismally.

Maybe you should stand for Parliament and do better?

[Allant1981]

Pretty good offer, brilliant news. Puts down the idea that workers are holding governments to ransom and demanding 12% ect. Hopefully scot gov actions pressure uk gov, but I'd doubt it

Its not really a pretty good deal for everyone though, up to band 4 it's a good deal but for staff above band 4 not so great, while I appreciate we are lucky to be getting a pay rise in today's climate I will get about a 4% rise, not really that good

[Keith_M]

Wonderful news. We’ll done to the SG and the unions in getting round the table. Strikes would have been a nightmare. Hopefully deals can be done now with other sectors. [emoji1696][emoji1696][emoji1696]


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Just read about that as well. Good to see some positive news for a change.

:top marks

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1602331717087670272?s=46&t=ZAW31u4F7oszzzpmEI4uGQ

What a strange take on things. Surely all Scots are relieved?


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[grunt]

https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1602331717087670272?s=46&t=ZAW31u4F7oszzzpmEI4uGQ

What a strange take on things. Surely all Scots are relieved?


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Conor Matchett is a Grade A moron.

[He's here!]

https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1602331717087670272?s=46&t=ZAW31u4F7oszzzpmEI4uGQ

What a strange take on things. Surely all Scots are relieved?


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Absolutely a relief to see the threat of ambulance strikes withdrawn, but there's no credit being handed to the SG:

Unison’s health committee chair Wilma Brown said her union’s vote was “not a win for the Government – it is a warning”.

“It was far from a unanimous decision and many of the NHS professional grades feel badly let down,” she said. “Almost half of Unison NHS staff voted to reject this latest pay offer, and many who did vote to accept, did so reluctantly.”

Scotland strikes: Ambulance staff and some NHS workers call off action as unions accept Scottish Government pay deal | The Scotsman (https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scotland-strikes-ambulance-staff-and-some-nhs-workers-call-off-action-as-unions-accept-scottish-government-pay-deal-3951077)

[He's here!]

Maybe you should stand for Parliament and do better?

I might just stick to carping from the sidelines :wink:

I respect the unwavering strength of your support for the SNP/SG but there's simply no defending the ferries fiasco. It's a monumental f***-up that merits a barrage of criticism.

[Ozyhibby]

Absolutely a relief to see the threat of ambulance strikes withdrawn, but there's no credit being handed to the SG:

Unison’s health committee chair Wilma Brown said her union’s vote was “not a win for the Government – it is a warning”.

“It was far from a unanimous decision and many of the NHS professional grades feel badly let down,” she said. “Almost half of Unison NHS staff voted to reject this latest pay offer, and many who did vote to accept, did so reluctantly.”

Scotland strikes: Ambulance staff and some NHS workers call off action as unions accept Scottish Government pay deal | The Scotsman (https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scotland-strikes-ambulance-staff-and-some-nhs-workers-call-off-action-as-unions-accept-scottish-government-pay-deal-3951077)

They got a deal done though, yes?


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[WeeRussell]

I know the headline will be enough to prevent most on here bothering to read this, but McKenna's piece about the changing of the guard strikes me as more insightful than most:

Nicola Sturgeon's authority is starting to ebb away | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/opinion/23184350.nicola-sturgeons-authority-starting-ebb-away/)

Probably the poster more than the headline for me, if I’m perfectly honest.

[Ozyhibby]

Absolutely a relief to see the threat of ambulance strikes withdrawn, but there's no credit being handed to the SG:

Unison’s health committee chair Wilma Brown said her union’s vote was “not a win for the Government – it is a warning”.

“It was far from a unanimous decision and many of the NHS professional grades feel badly let down,” she said. “Almost half of Unison NHS staff voted to reject this latest pay offer, and many who did vote to accept, did so reluctantly.”

Scotland strikes: Ambulance staff and some NHS workers call off action as unions accept Scottish Government pay deal | The Scotsman (https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/scotland-strikes-ambulance-staff-and-some-nhs-workers-call-off-action-as-unions-accept-scottish-government-pay-deal-3951077)

Unison seem quite happy with the Scottish govt on Peston tonight?

https://twitter.com/itvpeston/status/1602439489644744704?s=46&t=ivtTUq7j_sg61SQtp76qtA


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