SNP are lying b******s as well !

[grunt]

Devolved country decides not to prioritise PISA results above all else in the education of its young people.

Devolved country subsequently does not come top of a PISA league table.

Shock.

Thank you.

[Jones28]

Good advert!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GNLMPquWMAADgjO?format=jpg&name=medium

It’s all they’ve got.

David Mundell is my MP and I get a leaflet through every few months and all it mentions is stopping the SNP.

[Jones28]

Being a cabbie, I do a lot of work from both hospitals and the punters I pick up have nothing but good things to say about the service.

My wife had a large ovarian cystic mass removed last year, from seeing the doctor, getting CT scans, meeting the surgeon it was all done in 12 weeks, we can't say enough good things about the service, still brilliant.

Hope she’s recovered J C

I have, fortunately, not had much use of the NHS but the experiences I have had have all been positive.

2 kids born, mum hip replacement, mother in law broken ankle, at all stages the experiences were positive.

A 10 hour wait for an ambulance for my wife’s grannie a couple of years ago is probably the only negative I’ve experienced, but it was a Saturday night in rural Lanarkshire so there’s some mitigation there.

[Stairway 2 7]

Devolved country decides not to prioritise PISA results above all else in the education of its young people.

Devolved country subsequently does not come top of a PISA league table.

Shock.

And proof that devolution does not work.

England has spent less on education and has come top of these tables. England and the UK are brilliant.

Funny we were bragging about our PISA results when we were ahead of England but now the internationally recognised standards aren't good? You don't focus on it or not the comparative tests show a marked decline. Some can be explained by us stupidly closing our schools for longer but ask anyone in the sector about the curriculum for excellence and most will agree it's been a disaster

Sweeden also shared a similar approach to us but after a sharp decline in education standards but they are thankfully changing it.

My wife thought against it when it was clearly failing. She said it would disproportionately hurt disadvantaged youth as richer kids are insulated by stricter home learning and often tutoring. There is no happiness that that has turned out to be exactly what has happened as the data shows
https://reformscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Commission-on-School-Reform-OECD-response-August-2021.pdf

https://archive.ph/QjKBM
In the article Gilruth admits they need to stop the fall but the numbers are still OK and blames covid somehow


I happily praise good SNP policy like free tuition and a minimum number of student places in courses for people of disenfranchised circumstances, both fabulous. The Scottish child payment is probably the best policy brought in by any uk party in a decade. Curriculum for excellence isn't and daft pledges about free laptops for all a waste too. It's a bit tartan jammies to say any criticism in union lies and let's the government get away with poor choices.

[J-C]

Hope she’s recovered J C

I have, fortunately, not had much use of the NHS but the experiences I have had have all been positive.

2 kids born, mum hip replacement, mother in law broken ankle, at all stages the experiences were positive.

A 10 hour wait for an ambulance for my wife’s grannie a couple of years ago is probably the only negative I’ve experienced, but it was a Saturday night in rural Lanarkshire so there’s some mitigation there.

All good thanks for asking.

[Ozyhibby]

Funny we were bragging about our PISA results when we were ahead of England but now the internationally recognised standards aren't good? You don't focus on it or not the comparative tests show a marked decline. Some can be explained by us stupidly closing our schools for longer but ask anyone in the sector about the curriculum for excellence and most will agree it's been a disaster

Sweeden also shared a similar approach to us but after a sharp decline in education standards but they are thankfully changing it.

My wife thought against it when it was clearly failing. She said it would disproportionately hurt disadvantaged youth as richer kids are insulated by stricter home learning and often tutoring. There is no happiness that that has turned out to be exactly what has happened as the data shows
https://reformscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Commission-on-School-Reform-OECD-response-August-2021.pdf

https://archive.ph/QjKBM
In the article Gilruth admits they need to stop the fall but the numbers are still OK and blames covid somehow


I happily praise good SNP policy like free tuition and a minimum number of student places in courses for people of disenfranchised circumstances, both fabulous. The Scottish child payment is probably the best policy brought in by any uk party in a decade. Curriculum for excellence isn't and daft pledges about free laptops for all a waste too. It's a bit tartan jammies to say any criticism in union lies and let's the government get away with poor choices.

The laptops are well used? Both my kids have them and they use them for everything. All their homework is put on teams and they use it to ask teachers questions etc. I’m not sure how modern schools could operate without them to be honest?


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[Stairway 2 7]

The laptops are well used? Both my kids have them and they use them for everything. All their homework is put on teams and they use it to ask teachers questions etc. I’m not sure how modern schools could operate without them to be honest?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The idea was good but they failed to do it 4 years after they saying the would, Gilruth has said its now being scaled back.

[lapsedhibee]

Funny we were bragging about our PISA results when we were ahead of England but now the internationally recognised standards aren't good? You don't focus on it or not the comparative tests show a marked decline. Some can be explained by us stupidly closing our schools for longer but ask anyone in the sector about the curriculum for excellence and most will agree it's been a disaster

Sweeden also shared a similar approach to us but after a sharp decline in education standards but they are thankfully changing it.

My wife thought against it when it was clearly failing. She said it would disproportionately hurt disadvantaged youth as richer kids are insulated by stricter home learning and often tutoring. There is no happiness that that has turned out to be exactly what has happened as the data shows
https://reformscotland.com/wp-content/uploads/2021/08/Commission-on-School-Reform-OECD-response-August-2021.pdf

https://archive.ph/QjKBM
In the article Gilruth admits they need to stop the fall but the numbers are still OK and blames covid somehow


I happily praise good SNP policy like free tuition and a minimum number of student places in courses for people of disenfranchised circumstances, both fabulous. The Scottish child payment is probably the best policy brought in by any uk party in a decade. Curriculum for excellence isn't and daft pledges about free laptops for all a waste too. It's a bit tartan jammies to say any criticism in union lies and let's the government get away with poor choices.

It's not entirely clear here whether Mrs 2 7 most objected to the aims of the CFE or their implementation. Was she against it when it was announced (so, opposed to its aims) or did she turn against it if/when it was not implemented properly? Or both? :dunno:

[Stairway 2 7]

She like many in the education agencies were against its aims before it was implemented. It was based on theory with no data and education is too important to take a punt on guess. Swinney said when it was clear standards were falling that there would be a review that was 4 years ago, it's fell much further. There is nothing wrong with trying something but it's insanity to not change when it's continually not working.

When Jack McConnell was FM p1-3 in Scotland ranked highest in the world

[Berwickhibby]

More than half of SNP MPs failed to vote on a flagship plan to suspend MPs who are arrested on suspicion of a serious offence, meaning Labour had to rely on votes from Tory politicians for it to pass through Westminster. It strengthens laws around the protection of vulnerable people at the House of Commons.

But despite the seriousness of this debate, only 21 Nat MPs came to the chamber to vote on the proposals, meaning 22 failed to even show up at all. This included the likes of Leader Stephen Flynn, his Depute Mhairi Black who has complained repeatedly about the toxic-ness of the UK Parliament, and Patrick Grady who was previously suspended by the party after being found guilty of sexual misconduct. 🤔🤔🤔 wonder why

[Stairway 2 7]

More than half of SNP MPs failed to vote on a flagship plan to suspend MPs who are arrested on suspicion of a serious offence, meaning Labour had to rely on votes from Tory politicians for it to pass through Westminster. It strengthens laws around the protection of vulnerable people at the House of Commons.

But despite the seriousness of this debate, only 21 Nat MPs came to the chamber to vote on the proposals, meaning 22 failed to even show up at all. This included the likes of Leader Stephen Flynn, his Depute Mhairi Black who has complained repeatedly about the toxic-ness of the UK Parliament, and Patrick Grady who was previously suspended by the party after being found guilty of sexual misconduct. 🤔🤔🤔 wonder why

Bizarre they didn't. Labour got it through by 1 vote Natalie Elphicke voted with Labour

[Andy Bee]

More than half of SNP MPs failed to vote on a flagship plan to suspend MPs who are arrested on suspicion of a serious offence, meaning Labour had to rely on votes from Tory politicians for it to pass through Westminster. It strengthens laws around the protection of vulnerable people at the House of Commons.

But despite the seriousness of this debate, only 21 Nat MPs came to the chamber to vote on the proposals, meaning 22 failed to even show up at all. This included the likes of Leader Stephen Flynn, his Depute Mhairi Black who has complained repeatedly about the toxic-ness of the UK Parliament, and Patrick Grady who was previously suspended by the party after being found guilty of sexual misconduct. 🤔🤔🤔 wonder why

I'm guessing it's because of the fact in this country you're innocent until proven guilty but I understand why you would disagree with that, you being a serial "Nat" hater and using any bollox excuse to try and undermine them. Quite pathetic really. Change the record and try and argue the case for the Union you so love instead of this perpetual negative bull**** you keep coming out with, it's just tiresome.

[lapsedhibee]

More than half of SNP MPs failed to vote on a flagship plan to suspend MPs who are arrested on suspicion of a serious offence, meaning Labour had to rely on votes from Tory politicians for it to pass through Westminster. It strengthens laws around the protection of vulnerable people at the House of Commons.

But despite the seriousness of this debate, only 21 Nat MPs came to the chamber to vote on the proposals, meaning 22 failed to even show up at all. This included the likes of Leader Stephen Flynn, his Depute Mhairi Black who has complained repeatedly about the toxic-ness of the UK Parliament, and Patrick Grady who was previously suspended by the party after being found guilty of sexual misconduct. 🤔🤔🤔 wonder why

Good balanced reporting from The Daily Express there. No mention at all of why the 169 people who turned up and voted against the bill did so. Presumably quite a few of those were Tory MPs? :dunno:

Good word, toxic-ness. I wonder what was wrong with the previous word, toxicity?

[lapsedhibee]

Bizarre they didn't. Labour got it through by 1 vote Natalie Elphicke voted with Labour

For 170, against 169. 170+169= 339, approximately half of the total number of MPs. So half of the Westminster parliament didn't bother to vote. But aye, SNP, seeking to destroy the country etc.

[Andy Bee]

For 170, against 169. 170+169= 339, approximately half of the total number of MPs. So half of the Westminster parliament didn't bother to vote. But aye, SNP, seeking to destroy the country etc.


Exactly, maybe Sunak was right, extremists the lorra them. :hilarious

[Stairway 2 7]

For 170, against 169. 170+169= 339, approximately half of the total number of MPs. So half of the Westminster parliament didn't bother to vote. But aye, SNP, seeking to destroy the country etc.

Did I say snp destroying the country ect, a bit tin foil hat. SNP and tories, mainly tories voted against. This would bring MPs in line with many other public jobs like teachers, childminders, police and doctors. It's for people arrested for the most violent or sexual offenses only. They would still get paid but its a protection measure as MPS have power and deal with constituents.

Not sure why anyone would be against it

[lapsedhibee]

Did I say snp destroying the country ect,

Not you, Sunak. Hamas and the SNP, like two completely similar things in a pod. The Daily Express happy to run with Sunak's inane SNP-bashing, and BH happy to run with The Daily Express.

[marinello59]

For 170, against 169. 170+169= 339, approximately half of the total number of MPs. So half of the Westminster parliament didn't bother to vote. But aye, SNP, seeking to destroy the country etc.

Remember when the SNP regulariy took pictures of their group in a half empty chamber as evidence that they were the only party that cared in Westminster? It was lapped up by their supporters. That now looks like the sixth form stunt it was rather than grown up politics doesn’t it?

The Daily Express reporting is poor, singling out the SNP when MPs from all parties didn’t bother their backside is far from balanced. The legislation probably passed due to some unofficial pairing going on behind the scenes.

[Berwickhibby]

Not you, Sunak. Hamas and the SNP, like two completely similar things in a pod. The Daily Express happy to run with Sunak's inane SNP-bashing, and BH happy to run with The Daily Express.

Picked the quote of Facebook… no idea that it came from the Express, however is is factually incorrect

[lapsedhibee]

Remember when the SNP regularly took pictures of their group in a half empty chamber as evidence that they were the only party that cared in Westminster? It was lapped up by their supporters. That now looks like the sixth form stunt it was rather than grown up politics doesn’t it?

The Daily Express reporting is poor, singling out the SNP when MPs from all parties didn’t bother their backside is far from balanced. The legislation probably passed due to some unofficial pairing going on behind the scenes.

Don't remember the photo stunts, no, but not surprised. The HoC chamber is a farmyard, and SNP members do some braying.

You're being generous to The Express describing what it pumps out as 'reporting'. Political propaganda, more like.

[Ozyhibby]

Remember when the SNP regulariy took pictures of their group in a half empty chamber as evidence that they were the only party that cared in Westminster? It was lapped up by their supporters. That now looks like the sixth form stunt it was rather than grown up politics doesn’t it?

The Daily Express reporting is poor, singling out the SNP when MPs from all parties didn’t bother their backside is far from balanced. The legislation probably passed due to some unofficial pairing going on behind the scenes.

It wasn’t whipped so no need for pairing. There are good arguments for and against this rule. Personally I’m happy it’s passed but I can also see why it should not have. Now that it has passed then important safeguards need to be put in place to allow arrested mp’s to vote at the very least.
Given that’s it’s now about a year since NS has been arrested and no charge then that is a long time that her constituents would have no representation in parliament. That would be unacceptable. Let’s hope that such a situation could not arrive at Westminster.


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[marinello59]

It wasn’t whipped so no need for pairing. There are good arguments for and against this rule. Personally I’m happy it’s passed but I can also see why it should not have. Now that it has passed then important safeguards need to be put in place to allow arrested mp’s to vote at the very least.
Given that’s it’s now about a year since NS has been arrested and no charge then that is a long time that her constituents would have no representation in parliament. That would be unacceptable. Let’s hope that such a situation could not arrive at Westminster.


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I know it wasn’t whipped. That’s why I said unofficial pairing. Im trying not to be too cynical and going with MPs just not caring about this. :greengrin

I agree with the rest of your post..

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm guessing it's because of the fact in this country you're innocent until proven guilty but I understand why you would disagree with that, you being a serial "Nat" hater and using any bollox excuse to try and undermine them. Quite pathetic really. Change the record and try and argue the case for the Union you so love instead of this perpetual negative bull**** you keep coming out with, it's just tiresome.

"Change the record" :greengrin Quite apt for DJ Pollution.

[marinello59]

Don't remember the photo stunts, no, but not surprised. The HoC chamber is a farmyard, and SNP members do some braying.

You're being generous to The Express describing what it pumps out as 'reporting'. Political propaganda, more like.

I’m in a caring sharing mood today. :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

It wasn’t whipped so no need for pairing. There are good arguments for and against this rule. Personally I’m happy it’s passed but I can also see why it should not have. Now that it has passed then important safeguards need to be put in place to allow arrested mp’s to vote at the very least.
Given that’s it’s now about a year since NS has been arrested and no charge then that is a long time that her constituents would have no representation in parliament. That would be unacceptable. Let’s hope that such a situation could not arrive at Westminster.


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She wouldn't be barred as like doctors or childcare workers they would only be put on leave for serous violent or sexual crimes. Its about safeguarding people they come in contact with, its not about punishing people before a guilty verdict.

[Berwickhibby]

I'm guessing it's because of the fact in this country you're innocent until proven guilty but I understand why you would disagree with that, you being a serial "Nat" hater and using any bollox excuse to try and undermine them. Quite pathetic really. Change the record and try and argue the case for the Union you so love instead of this perpetual negative bull**** you keep coming out with, it's just tiresome.

Your tiresome with this absolute love in with all that’s SNP …other employments get suspended after being arrested for serious crimes ..why should MPs be excluded and why did the SNP not support this

[Moulin Yarns]

Your tiresome with this absolute love in with all that’s SNP …other employments get suspended after being arrested for serious crimes ..why should MPs be excluded and why did the SNP not support this


THE SNP SUPPORTED IT


Every vote cast by the SNP was in favour, every vote against was conservative with the exception of 1 Christine Jardine Liberal Democrat!!


Why did 42% of labour MPs not vote?

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2024-05-13b.69.0#g104.1

[McSwanky]

THE SNP SUPPORTED IT


Every vote cast by the SNP was in favour, every vote against was conservative with the exception of 1 Christine Jardine Liberal Democrat!!


Why did 42% of labour MPs not vote?

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2024-05-13b.69.0#g104.1Telt! [emoji16]

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[Berwickhibby]

THE SNP SUPPORTED IT


Every vote cast by the SNP was in favour, every vote against was conservative with the exception of 1 Christine Jardine Liberal Democrat!!


Why did 42% of labour MPs not vote?

https://www.theyworkforyou.com/debates/?id=2024-05-13b.69.0#g104.1

Then shame on all MPs that voted against it and those that did not attend to vote regardless of party

[weecounty hibby]

Then shame on all MPs that voted against it and those that did not attend to vote regardless of party
Tbh, there are many votes in Westminster where dozens don't turn up due to one thing or another so difficult to blame them. The 169 who voted against though are a different matter. Absolutely no conscience or morals in any of them

[Stairway 2 7]

Tbh, there are many votes in Westminster where dozens don't turn up due to one thing or another so difficult to blame them. The 169 who voted against though are a different matter. Absolutely no conscience or morals in any of them

A few above were defending voting against because they thought that was the SNP position. Anyone without an excuse that didn't vote is wrong imo, MPs should be treated like everyone else

[Ozyhibby]

Your tiresome with this absolute love in with all that’s SNP …other employments get suspended after being arrested for serious crimes ..why should MPs be excluded and why did the SNP not support this

It’s not about the MP and his employment rights, it’s about the disenfranchisement of his constituents.


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[Andy Bee]

Your tiresome with this absolute love in with all that’s SNP …other employments get suspended after being arrested for serious crimes ..why should MPs be excluded and why did the SNP not support this


My main point wasn't about the bill, as others have said there's pro's and cons. My main point was that you wrongly singled out one party because of your unhealthy little hatefest for anything "NAT". As for my "love in" for the SNP, I suggest you read some of my posts on that matter, I'm far from loving the SNP.

Maybe you should take a wee break from this bitterness, maybe a wee weekend away in one of our neighbouring Independent Scandinavian countries, Denmark is apparently the happiest country in the world to live, maybe see if some of that happy juice will rub off on you, naw?

[Berwickhibby]

My main point wasn't about the bill, as others have said there's pro's and cons. My main point was that you wrongly singled out one party because of your unhealthy little hatefest for anything "NAT". As for my "love in" for the SNP, I suggest you read some of my posts on that matter, I'm far from loving the SNP.

Maybe you should take a wee break from this bitterness, maybe a wee weekend away in one of our neighbouring Independent Scandinavian countries, Denmark is apparently the happiest country in the world to live, maybe see if some of that happy juice will rub off on you, naw?

Read the name of this thread …might help

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/peak-rail-fare-abolition-extended-32819420

Another good bit of work by the SNP.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Freezing council tax is a populist disaster especially as it isn't remotely costed, council cuts disproportionately harm those most in need. An awful policy that is the exact opposite of the wonderful Scottish child payment scheme

https://archive.ph/6xNoA

Scots councils making £400m of service cuts face new £780m budget black hole

[marinello59]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/peak-rail-fare-abolition-extended-32819420

Another good bit of work by the SNP.


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This is good news, I worried it would go along with the Bute house agreement. Not only does it lower fares, it makes buying tickets much easier, no more worrying about what time trains you can return on.

[Sylar]

This is good news, I worried it would go along with the Bute house agreement. Not only does it lower fares, it makes buying tickets much easier, no more worrying about what time trains you can return on.

Agreed.

Though if they're serious about meeting their climate change targets, they'd permanently scrap them and incentivise people to use the national railway system by bringing costs in line with many European nations, increasing the number of people using them and leaving their cars behind.

[Ozyhibby]

Agreed.

Though if they're serious about meeting their climate change targets, they'd permanently scrap them and incentivise people to use the national railway system by bringing costs in line with many European nations, increasing the number of people using them and leaving their cars behind.

SG has a fixed budget that can change at the whim of Westminster. They can’t offer permanent.


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[marinello59]

SG has a fixed budget that can change at the whim of Westminster. They can’t offer permanent.


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The Government owns ScotRail don’t they? . The profits that used to go to shareholders etc can now be used to subsidise things like this surely? An increase in travellers should go some way towards funding it as well. If they can’t run the railways better than the private companies then what was the point in taking it back in to public ownership?
It’s not always Westminsters fault. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

The Government owns ScotRail don’t they? . The profits that used to go to shareholders etc can now be used to subsidise things like this surely? An increase in travellers should go some way towards funding it as well. If they can’t run the railways better than the private companies then what was the point in taking it back in to public ownership?
It’s not always Westminsters fault. :greengrin

Is it running at a profit? Wasn’t it subsidised even when owned privately?


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/msps-hit-500-criminally-abusive-32833468

The abuse aimed at the SNP seems to be disproportionate?


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[marinello59]

Is it running at a profit? Wasn’t it subsidised even when owned privately?


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Part of the income for the rail companies does come from subsidies, the rest comes from fares. It enables them to make a profit.

[Jack]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/msps-hit-500-criminally-abusive-32833468

The abuse aimed at the SNP seems to be disproportionate?


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461 reached the criminal threshold.

As far as I'm aware only 1 seems to have reached the courts.

The papers will be full of the other 460 soon!

[Ozyhibby]

Part of the income for the rail companies does come from subsidies, the rest comes from fares. It enables them to make a profit.

There is no profit then.


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[marinello59]

There is no profit then.


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If the Private companies are being run correctly they make a profit. As a publically owned company Scotrail , rather then making a profit for its shareholders, can instead offer benefits to its passengers, like off peak fares being available at all times. So, no, there would be no profit, that money is being used for the good of us all. Which I kinda like.

Or are you suggesting there was nothing to be gained by taking ScotRail in to public ownership?

[Ozyhibby]

If the Private companies are being run correctly they make a profit. As a publically owned company Scotrail , rather then making a profit for its shareholders, can instead offer benefits to its passengers, like off peak fares being available at all times. So, no, there would be no profit, that money is being used for the good of us all. Which I kinda like.

Or are you suggesting there was nothing to be gained by taking ScotRail in to public ownership?

If you have to increase the subsidy to do it then it is a decision that will need to be made.
You are assuming that the profit made by the private company is enough to cover this pricing policy? I have no idea if it does or not? Or is the subsidy of the railway having to cover part of it?
You seem to be saying this is a cost free idea without any evidence?


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[marinello59]

If you have to increase the subsidy to do it then it is a decision that will need to be made.
You are assuming that the profit made by the private company is enough to cover this pricing policy? I have no idea if it does or not? Or is the subsidy of the railway having to cover part of it?
You seem to be saying this is a cost free idea without any evidence?


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Not at all, nothing like this comes without a cost. I’m saying because we own Scotrail our ability to introduce an extension to off peak fares is increased.
You suggested this could not be made permanent because of Westminster funding. Yet the prescription charge subsidy is permanant as is free university education. They’re not without cost either. So if it is seen as a priority then it can be done. It’s not easy I know, but immediately dismissing it , as you did, would see us achieving nothing.

[Ozyhibby]

Not at all, nothing like this comes without a cost. I’m saying because we own Scotrail our ability to introduce an extension to off peak fares is increased.
You suggested this could not be made permanent because of Westminster funding. Yet the prescription charge subsidy is permanant as is free university education. They’re not without cost either. So if it is seen as a priority then it can be done. It’s not easy I know, but immediately dismissing it , as you did, would see us achieving nothing.

I wasn’t dismissing it as such. I’m in favour of the policy. I would be moving towards making it cheaper still and paying for it by charging drivers more.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Not at all, nothing like this comes without a cost. I’m saying because we own Scotrail our ability to introduce an extension to off peak fares is increased.
You suggested this could not be made permanent because of Westminster funding. Yet the prescription charge subsidy is permanant as is free university education. They’re not without cost either. So if it is seen as a priority then it can be done. It’s not easy I know, but immediately dismissing it , as you did, would see us achieving nothing.

I'm going to be pedantic but no government policy is permanent, the next government, likely to be labour led both side of the border, could very well reverse policy.

[marinello59]

I wasn’t dismissing it as such. I’m in favour of the policy. I would be moving towards making it cheaper still and paying for it by charging drivers more.


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I agree. :greengrin

[marinello59]

I'm going to be pedantic but no government policy is permanent, the next government, likely to be labour led both side of the border, could very well reverse policy.

You are correct, you are being pedantic. :greengrin

[Andy Bee]

If the Private companies are being run correctly they make a profit. As a publically owned company Scotrail , rather then making a profit for its shareholders, can instead offer benefits to its passengers, like off peak fares being available at all times. So, no, there would be no profit, that money is being used for the good of us all. Which I kinda like.

Or are you suggesting there was nothing to be gained by taking ScotRail in to public ownership?


It's also worth noting the vast array of railcards available now. 16-18 yr olds get 50% off for £30 a year, over 50's get 1/3 off for £15 a yr and 4 trips anywhere in Scotland for £17 return and there's many more. Scotrail is turning into a really good news story.

Couple that with down South and there's one of the lines owned by China which posts profits equal to the subsidies it receives from taxpayers.

[Keith_M]

You are correct, you are being pedantic. :greengrin


:greengrin



Nice to have a bit of humour on this forum occasionally.

[Keith_M]

It's also worth noting the vast array of railcards available now. 16-18 yr olds get 50% off for £30 a year, over 50's get 1/3 off for £15 a yr and 4 trips anywhere in Scotland for £17 return and there's many more. Scotrail is turning into a really good news story.

Couple that with down South and there's one of the lines owned by China which posts profits equal to the subsidy's it receives from taxpayers.



Which basically equates to their being no actual profit, just a subsidy from the taxpayer going straight into the pockets of businesses and shareholders.


Capitalism, don't you just love it.

:rolleyes:

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/john-swinneys-big-speech-was-a-tacit-but-damning-indictment-of-snp-green-coalition-scotsman-comment-4633483?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1716015636
Great to see the complete change in direction. Forbes may not be FM but she certainly won.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/stvnews/status/1791762711635779823?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

If only we had a way of reducing this?[emoji849]


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[marinello59]

Which basically equates to their being no actual profit, just a subsidy from the taxpayer going straight into the pockets of businesses and shareholders.


Capitalism, don't you just love it.

:rolleyes:

That’s how privatisation of public services works, they take the profit, we take the risk.
Vote Socialist.

[grunt]

That’s how privatisation of public services works, they take the profit, we take the risk.
Vote Socialist.
Or Vote SNP. QED.

[Berwickhibby]

That’s how privatisation of public services works, they take the profit, we take the risk.
Vote Socialist.

100% agree :thumbsup:

[cabbageandribs1875]

this is what unionists in Scotland strive for :agree: they'll no be happy until Scotland is brought into line with their beloved Westminster masters

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/441655694_7662127370510694_7118750268205648042_n.j pg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=EnN8iKfgkTgQ7kNvgF9TGNa&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AYAr5NKjdjiQuX0HQF_ht3aDeVpPWxi3tsyWZ5YLtTJE Sw&oe=664EEED4

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240520/8150b5799243ce2090d4bfadf9842ada.jpg

In the Times today.


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[Keith_M]

That’s how privatisation of public services works, they take the profit, we take the risk.
Vote Socialist.


If you could point me to an actual Socialist party, I would do just that.

:wink:

[marinello59]

If you could point me to an actual Socialist party, I would do just that.

:wink:

Here you go. :greengrin

https://scottishsocialistparty.org/

[147lothian]

Nicola Sturgeon admits that the trans issue caused her downfall, no sign of an apology though for the damage done to kids taking puberty blockers and cross sex hormones, as highlighted in the Cass review.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/19/nicola-sturgeon-i-was-part-of-problem-trans-issues/

[superfurryhibby]

Nicola Sturgeon admits that the trans issue caused her downfall, no sign of an apology though for the damage done to kids taking puberty blockers and cross sex hormones, as highlighted in the Cass review.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/19/nicola-sturgeon-i-was-part-of-problem-trans-issues/

You need a subscription to read anything more than the headline. Maybe you could cut and paste for us?

Wouldn't any apology be due from the clinicians?

[147lothian]

You need a subscription to read anything more than the headline. Maybe you could cut and paste for us?

Wouldn't any apology be due from the clinicians?

To be fair to the clinicians a lot of them did speak out about how the services provided at the Tavistock was failing vulnerable children and young people before it was shut down.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/03/05/what-i-saw-inside-the-tavistock/

[grunt]

Nicola Sturgeon admits that the trans issue caused her downfall, no sign of an apology though for the damage done to kids taking puberty blockers and cross sex hormones, as highlighted in the Cass review.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2024/05/19/nicola-sturgeon-i-was-part-of-problem-trans-issues/
Quite a bizarre take on what she actually said, but a good example of what she was referring to.


Ms Sturgeon said she had “got to the point where I thought I was part of that problem” because there is no one in Scotland who “doesn’t have an opinion about me whether good or bad – and I’m not sure many people are indifferent”.

“It felt as if every issue people were coming at that issue in terms of how they thought about me – that felt true on the trans issue, it felt true on a number of issues – so I thought, well, if I take myself out of that maybe the politics, the discourse and the debate in Scotland will be a bit more healthy.

“It hasn’t quite worked out that way, but yes that is why I decided to stand down.”

[grunt]

To be fair to the clinicians a lot of them did speak out about how the services provided at the Tavistock was failing vulnerable children and young people before it was shut down.

https://www.spiked-online.com/2023/03/05/what-i-saw-inside-the-tavistock/What does the Tavistock have to do with the SNP? Was the Scottish NHS referring children there?

Please note I haven't been following this story closely - I don't understand a lot of the arguments. But I'm not sure why we're talking about a *Spiked* article about the Tavistock - a London based clinic - on the SNP thread. I could of course be missing the point.

[Ozyhibby]

I’m glad Swinney and Forbes are giving this issue a very wide berth now and the SNP is back to dealing with more bread and butter issues.


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[J-C]

If you could point me to an actual Socialist party, I would do just that.

:wink:

There's a guy every weekend with a loud speaker and dozens of flags at East end of Princes St, he'll point you in the right direction.

[Stairway 2 7]

I’m glad Swinney and Forbes are giving this issue a very wide berth now and the SNP is back to dealing with more bread and butter issues.


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They will need to. Yougov yesterday had SNP at its lowest in over a decade and Labour the highest with a 10 point lead, this is Starmer’s Labour that people are flocking to so it shows the need for a centrist like Forbes. 5 years ago SNP were 50 ahead 4 years ago just before the Bute House agreement.

Sturgeon let Harvey in the boat directed it towards an iceberg and jumped out, continuity candidate number 1 kept the same path. Hopefully they are changing paths and the signs are good but they need to get Sturgeon away from doing interviews every day especially with more police drama to come. Need the polls not just to steady but start building momentum

[marinello59]

I’m glad Swinney and Forbes are giving this issue a very wide berth now and the SNP is back to dealing with more bread and butter issues.


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It’s like Swinney has done a Bobby Ewing style step out of the shower and the past few years never happened.

90% of people here will be too young to get the reference and the remaining 10% think I talk ***** anyway. :greengrin

[147lothian]

Quite a bizarre take on what she actually said, but a good example of what she was referring to.

Nicola Sturgeon clearly says that the trans debate caused her downfall

https://www.dailysceptic.org/2024/05/20/nicola-sturgeon-i-was-part-of-the-problem-on-trans-issues/

[Ozyhibby]

It’s like Swinney has done a Bobby Ewing style step out of the shower and the past few years never happened.

90% of people here will be too young to get the reference and the remaining 10% think I talk ***** anyway. :greengrin

He is loyal to the leadership in the same way Starmer was loyal to Corbyn. Doesn’t mean he agreed with everything.


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[grunt]

Nicola Sturgeon clearly says that the trans debate caused her downfall

https://www.dailysceptic.org/2024/05/20/nicola-sturgeon-i-was-part-of-the-problem-on-trans-issues/
Try reading the words she actually spoke - which I posted in my reply to you - rather than the biased take on her words published by media sources that want to push a narrative for people like you to lap up.

[Moulin Yarns]

Nicola Sturgeon clearly says that the trans debate caused her downfall

https://www.dailysceptic.org/2024/05/20/nicola-sturgeon-i-was-part-of-the-problem-on-trans-issues/

"But she suggested that the trans rows that engulfed her contributed to her downfall."

[Stairway 2 7]

"But she suggested that the trans rows that engulfed her contributed to her downfall."

She said at the time her resignation was nothing to do with the "latest period of pressure" and it was just the right time.

It was obviously a large part of it, we'll look back at the thought of putting a male rapist in a female prison with revulsion. Probably not the only factor, Murrells loan and investigation, plummeting members numbers being revealed and polls crashing. SNP needed change it shouldn't have been too heavily linked to one person or view. It should be a broad party pushing for independence at all times in my opinion

[147lothian]

"But she suggested that the trans rows that engulfed her contributed to her downfall."

Nicola Sturgeon dismissed feminist concerns over their safety in female only spaces like prisons, some from within her own party, smugly telling concerned feminists, that their concerns were "not relevant", then what she said wouldn't happen, did happen a rapist called Adam Graham/Islay Bryson was in a women only prison. After a media storm, in which even Adam Graham's own mum and ex wife said that he had never previously said that he was trans or had been born in the wrong body and was simply gaming the system.

The sure footed and slick performer Nicola Sturgeon was clearly rattled and appeared to be doing mental gymnastics during interviews when asked if the double rapist in a women only prison was a man or a women. Nicola did say at the time that her decision to go was nothing to do with the Adam Graham/Islay Bryson case, so she does have a bit of a brass neck to now say the abuse she received over plans to reform the gender laws contributed to her reason to go.

Then again its maybe an easier way to explain her downfall than the pending storm that was to follow regarding the missing indyref2 funds.

https://news.stv.tv/politics/nicola-sturgeon-says-abuse-from-trans-debate-pushed-her-to-resign-as-first-minister

[grunt]

If lying liar Sunak calls a General Election for 4 July, I wonder what phrase the SNP could use in their election adverts ...?

[Moulin Yarns]

If lying liar Sunak calls a General Election for 4 July, I wonder what phrase the SNP could use in their election adverts ...?

A nation, reborn on the 4th of July.

[Stairway 2 7]

If lying liar Sunak calls a General Election for 4 July, I wonder what phrase the SNP could use in their election adverts ...?

We're doomed Captain Mainwaring. Disaster for SNP as no time to tighten the polls and surely big losses in MP numbers. I think its soon enough for Swinney to say nothing to do with me let's build forward from here, which is fair I think

[marinello59]

An interesting FM questions where Swinney has just doubled down on Yousaf’s support of Michael Matheson. He’s even chucked in a Boris Johnson style trashing of the select committee. And he justified his position to Sarwar by quoting what he called his fundamental Christian beliefs. It’s been bizzarre.

[Berwickhibby]

An interesting FM questions where Swinney has just doubled down on Yousaf’s support of Michael Matheson. He’s even chucked in a Boris Johnson style trashing of the select committee. And he justified his position to Sarwar by quoting what he called his fundamental Christian beliefs. It’s been bizzarre.

It amazes me the loyalty shown by politicians to other politicians …especially ones caught with their fingers in the till.

[GlesgaeHibby]

An interesting FM questions where Swinney has just doubled down on Yousaf’s support of Michael Matheson. He’s even chucked in a Boris Johnson style trashing of the select committee. And he justified his position to Sarwar by quoting what he called his fundamental Christian beliefs. It’s been bizzarre.

Massive error of judgement, especially at the start of an election campaign. Dug himself into a massive hole here. Big error too for Swinney to major on the fact he cares deeply about and respects the Scottish Parliament, when it was only a potential VONC in him that resulted in the release of legal information to the Salmond Inquiry.

[Stairway 2 7]

What is Swinney thinking of, before an election too. Matheson tried to get the tax payer to pay when he knew he was sharing data when not allowed, worse he lied to parliament. Swinney going Trump and blaming the committee when 2 SNP MSPs voted to suspend pay for 56 days. Its absolute madness sticking up for a friend

[Stairway 2 7]

PF report in against Murrell for embezzlement of funds, still investigating Sturgeon

KieranPAndrews
Crown Office confirms it has received a report about Peter Murrell, former SNP chief exec, allegations date between 2016 and 2023

Crown also confirms investigations still ongoing into Nicola Sturgeon and Colin Beattie

[grunt]

PF report in against Murrell for embezzlement of funds, still investigating Sturgeon

PF report drops the day after the general election is announced.

[Kato]

PF report drops the day after the general election is announced.Pure coinkydink.

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[Stairway 2 7]

Pure coinkydink.

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The Lord Advocate and Solicitor General in the SNP cabinet do we think PF are doing some unionist plot. It was meant to be a plot to arrest him, now he's been charged less are saying that. SNP has been in power 14 years they set up police Scotland, its all a bit Trump saying the law officers are out to get one party

[marinello59]

Pure coinkydink.

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We were told last week it was going in.

Coinkydink is a great word by the way. I’m going to stick with that from now on. :greengrin

[marinello59]

The Lord Advocate and Solicitor General in the SNP cabinet do we think PF are doing some unionist plot. It was meant to be a plot to arrest him, now he's been charged less are saying that. SNP has been in power 14 years they set up police Scotland, its all a bit Trump saying the law officers are out to get one party

:agree:

[grunt]

The Lord Advocate and Solicitor General in the SNP cabinet do we think PF are doing some unionist plot. It was meant to be a plot to arrest him, now he's been charged less are saying that. SNP has been in power 14 years they set up police Scotland, its all a bit Trump saying the law officers are out to get one party

He's not been charged? A report going to the PF doesn't necessarily mean a charge will follow, as far as I understand. The PF needs to decide whether to prosecute.

[Stairway 2 7]

He's not been charged? A report going to the PF doesn't necessarily mean a charge will follow, as far as I understand. The PF needs to decide whether to prosecute.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-68850088.amp

Peter Murrell charged with embezzlement in SNP finance probe

He was charged at 18:35 after further questioning by officers investigating the funding and finances of the party as part of Operation Branchform.

[J-C]

So basically SNP members get a fund going for an independence campaign, we are dashed by the law courts and Murrel decides to use that money on other SNP things. Have I got that right, looks more like he never told everyone what he wad using the money for, so money for SNP by members still used for SNP purposes.

[Just Alf]

So basically SNP members get a fund going for an independence campaign, we are dashed by the law courts and Murrel decides to use that money on other SNP things. Have I got that right, looks more like he never told everyone what he wad using the money for, so money for SNP by members still used for SNP purposes.Some of the "other things" include the research and production of the wee booklets they started to bring out to create a dialogue (I think that how it was put) so very much a building block towards any independence campaign.

For balance, not sure how the camper fit in to it :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

So basically SNP members get a fund going for an independence campaign, we are dashed by the law courts and Murrel decides to use that money on other SNP things. Have I got that right, looks more like he never told everyone what he wad using the money for, so money for SNP by members still used for SNP purposes.

I've not seen it reported anywhere what the embezzlement was I'd be doubtful if it was using one fund to fund other SNP business. Its all speculation until its public

[Moulin Yarns]

I've not seen it reported anywhere what the embezzlement was I'd be doubtful if it was using one fund to fund other SNP business. Its all speculation until its public

Did this not all come about because someone who donated to the 'independence campaign fund' thought that the money was going to be used when another referendum was due?

[Stairway 2 7]

Did this not all come about because someone who donated to the 'independence campaign fund' thought that the money was going to be used when another referendum was due?

I think that is when they started looking at SNP finances but the police don't charge political figures and the husband of a lawyer without it being pretty tight. Its daft to speculate before the fact, most were saying there would be no charge and it was to embarrass the SNP, it obviously wasn't

[Berwickhibby]

Did this not all come about because someone who donated to the 'independence campaign fund' thought that the money was going to be used when another referendum was due?

Does it matter who made the complaint…IF Murrell stole funds then he should be prosecuted

[weecounty hibby]

Did this not all come about because someone who donated to the 'independence campaign fund' thought that the money was going to be used when another referendum was due?
Started by Sean Clerkin. Nutcase of the highest order and frankly an anti English bigot. Been thrown out of pretty much every party he's been a member of even Scottish Resistance FFS. Aided and abetted by that bastion of sense and understanding the Rev Stu

[marinello59]

So basically SNP members get a fund going for an independence campaign, we are dashed by the law courts and Murrel decides to use that money on other SNP things. Have I got that right, looks more like he never told everyone what he wad using the money for, so money for SNP by members still used for SNP purposes.

We don’t know anything.
What follows is all speculation on my part with no comment on whether people are guilty or not. :greengrin
if you take a cold, detached look at all the information that has been made public it is not surprising to see embezzlement charges made against one individual. I suspect nobody else will be charged. I have no idea if a prosecution will follow, all in the hands of the PF now. I wouldn’t fancy having to make that call, either way there will be anger. My hope is that a decision is reached rapidly, it’s not just those charged it’s people around them having to live with the weight of all this. On a human level it’s hard not to feel sorry for them.

[Berwickhibby]

So basically SNP members get a fund going for an independence campaign, we are dashed by the law courts and Murrel decides to use that money on other SNP things. Have I got that right, looks more like he never told everyone what he wad using the money for, so money for SNP by members still used for SNP purposes.

If Murrell used these funds for SNP related matters then I don’t see a crime, however, the question is did he unlawfully appropriate said funds for himself and not the SNP … until the evidence is the public domain we don’t know.

[weecounty hibby]

Does it matter who made the complaint…IF Murrell stole funds then he should be prosecuted
I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise. I 100% agree and I am a party member who donated. But frankly I have no issues with what the money was spent on as I do believe that the SNP raison d'etre is an independent Scotland so pretty much everything they do campaigning is furthering the cause of independence. Innocent until proven guilty, but if proven guilty then he deserves whatever punishment comes his way

[Stairway 2 7]

I've yet to see anyone who isn't baffled by Swinney defending Matheson and hitting out at the comity, which had SNP MSPs who voted for the wages suspension. It's madness especially and 6 weeks before the election kills any momentum or changing of narrative. Robert Mcalpine asks has he handed Labour a Scottish Westminster victory

https://robinmcalpine.org/has-john-swinney-just-handed-holyrood-to-labour/
In a decision which defies logic, the First Minister just decided to come out swinging against moderate sanctions against an MSP who broke some serious rules. The implications of this are far-reaching


Andy Wightman
@andywightman

Straight out of the Nicola Sturgeon playbook. Smear Committee members, undermine and discredit a Parliamentary Committee - all to save your own career. Scottish Parliament standards now hugely undermined

[marinello59]

I've yet to see anyone who isn't baffled by Swinney defending Matheson and hitting out at the comity, which had SNP MSPs who voted for the wages suspension. It's madness especially and 6 weeks before the election kills any momentum or changing of narrative. Robert Mcalpine asks has he handed Labour a Scottish Westminster victory

https://robinmcalpine.org/has-john-swinney-just-handed-holyrood-to-labour/
In a decision which defies logic, the First Minister just decided to come out swinging against moderate sanctions against an MSP who broke some serious rules. The implications of this are far-reaching


Andy Wightman
@andywightman

Straight out of the Nicola Sturgeon playbook. Smear Committee members, undermine and discredit a Parliamentary Committee - all to save your own career. Scottish Parliament standards now hugely undermined

Sunak- Could I have made a worse mess of our campaign launch?

Swinney - Hold my beer.

[Hiber-nation]

I've yet to see anyone who isn't baffled by Swinney defending Matheson and hitting out at the comity, which had SNP MSPs who voted for the wages suspension. It's madness especially and 6 weeks before the election kills any momentum or changing of narrative. Robert Mcalpine asks has he handed Labour a Scottish Westminster victory

https://robinmcalpine.org/has-john-swinney-just-handed-holyrood-to-labour/
In a decision which defies logic, the First Minister just decided to come out swinging against moderate sanctions against an MSP who broke some serious rules. The implications of this are far-reaching


Andy Wightman
@andywightman

Straight out of the Nicola Sturgeon playbook. Smear Committee members, undermine and discredit a Parliamentary Committee - all to save your own career. Scottish Parliament standards now hugely undermined

Having seen Swinney in action in meetings etc in my time in the SG this is just trademark for him. Once he gets a bee in his bonnet he'll try to stick with it through thick and thin. Worked really well when he was Finance Minister. But he's gone too far this time. Wrong move.

[147lothian]

Considering Peter Murrell is The Former SNP chief executive and Nicola Sturgeon's husband who may have been out of the limelight but since Sturgeon controlled every aspect of the party, if Peter Murrell was embezzling the funds, I don't believe Nicola Sturgeon didn't know about it.

[RyeSloan]

Considering Peter Murrell is The Former SNP chief executive and Nicola Sturgeon's husband who may have been out of the limelight but since Sturgeon controlled every aspect of the party, if Peter Murrell was embezzling the funds, I don't believe Nicola Sturgeon didn't know about it.

I’m not so sure she would have and as we don’t know any specifics on what the embezzlement charges are it’s even harder to draw a conclusion.

It’s interesting though that the charges relate to a period from 2016…I believe the fund raising that prompted all of this was in 2017.

Which to me suggests that once the covers were lifted by the original investigation of the fundraising cash further irregularities were found. Hence the rather protracted investigation.

All speculation of course but married or not and in leadership positions or not there shouldn’t be an automatic guilt of association here. I can still see why the minutiae of how the party finances were being run might not be Nicola’s bag. Then of course there is the hurdle of a provable, criminal act even if she was ‘aware’.

[JimBHibees]

I think that is when they started looking at SNP finances but the police don't charge political figures and the husband of a lawyer without it being pretty tight. Its daft to speculate before the fact, most were saying there would be no charge and it was to embarrass the SNP, it obviously wasn't

Depends what actually happened and the scale of it. Do think the timing is interesting.

[Stairway 2 7]

Depends what actually happened and the scale of it. Do think the timing is interesting.

I was surprised to read this morning as RyeSloan says the embezzlement relates to a year before the fundraising so who knows

[147lothian]

I’m not so sure she would have and as we don’t know any specifics on what the embezzlement charges are it’s even harder to draw a conclusion.

It’s interesting though that the charges relate to a period from 2016…I believe the fund raising that prompted all of this was in 2017.

Which to me suggests that once the covers were lifted by the original investigation of the fundraising cash further irregularities were found. Hence the rather protracted investigation.

All speculation of course but married or not and in leadership positions or not there shouldn’t be an automatic guilt of association here. I can still see why the minutiae of how the party finances were being run might not be Nicola’s bag. Then of course there is the hurdle of a provable, criminal act even if she was ‘aware’.

Apparently Sturgeon was a control freak who micro managed every aspect of the party, which simply means that party funds being embezzled by her husband and she doesn't know about it is not plausible.

https://www.robinmcalpine.org/the-sturgeon-era-control-paranoia-and-vanity/

[grunt]

I think that is when they started looking at SNP finances but the police don't charge political figures and the husband of a lawyer without it being pretty tight.:greengrin

[marinello59]

Apparently Sturgeon was a control freak who micro managed every aspect of the party, which simply means that party funds being embezzled by her husband and she doesn't know about it is not plausible.

https://www.robinmcalpine.org/the-sturgeon-era-control-paranoia-and-vanity/

That’s pretty brutal.

[Stairway 2 7]

:greengrin

Are you going full Trump like Swinney yesterday?

[lapsedhibee]

That’s pretty brutal.

Kind of unhinged, too. Scotland would be an independent land of milk and honey by now if it wasn't for Sturgeon's personal flaws.

[Stairway 2 7]

Kind of unhinged, too. Scotland would be an independent land of milk and honey by now if it wasn't for Sturgeon's personal flaws.

I think we've missed the biggest chance in a generation. The worst tory party since the 80s and clinging on after 14 years and brexit that we didn't want hammering us. This was the time. She focused on her personal crusades and culture wars and joined up with the greens. The last 4 years have been a disaster and a waste. With yougov before Bute the Bute House yes was just ahead and SNP were 50 points ahead of Labour. In the last yougov poll no is 10% ahead and Labour are 10 points ahead, brutal. The fact they voters shifted from SNP to wanting Starmers Labour shows why I think Forbes should have came in instead of continuity one and two.

Hopefully a fresh start after the expected election disappointments

[grunt]

Are you going full Trump like Swinney yesterday?Two things. First off, I just don't believe it. If I'm wrong, and Murrell & Sturgeon have embezzled the SNP then I'll be extremely unhappy, and angry with them. Secondly, if Police Scotland have 100 police officers investigating the possible embezzlement of £600k, then the UK Police should have 10s of 1000s of officers investigating the PPE fraud carried out by senior Tory Ministers. The Tories have diverted billions of pounds to their mates and no one is even talking about it. If Murrell & Sturgeon have done wrong, then they should be investigated and charged, but in comparison with the wholesale fraud undertaken by the Tories this is classic mote / plank / eye stuff.

[Stairway 2 7]

Two things. First off, I just don't believe it. If I'm wrong, and Murrell & Sturgeon have embezzled the SNP then I'll be extremely unhappy, and angry with them. Secondly, if Police Scotland have 100 police officers investigating the possible embezzlement of £600k, then the UK Police should have 10s of 1000s of officers investigating the PPE fraud carried out by senior Tory Ministers. The Tories have diverted billions of pounds to their mates and no one is even talking about it. If Murrell & Sturgeon have done wrong, then they should be investigated and charged, but in comparison with the wholesale fraud undertaken by the Tories this is classic mote / plank / eye stuff.

So your going with you just don't believe it regardless of evidence that is wild. What's whataboutery going to do to society oh he tried to steal 11k no as bad as the tories, oh someone robbed your house no as bad as the tories. If they committed a crime then they should get done. Scottish policing is devolved if they have seen a crime they should charge. Single mums get done for claiming improper benefits so politicians should too

SNP are the establishment party they have been in power for 14 years, all the heads will know Sturgeon and the justice Secretary, Dorothy Bain KC Lord Advocate and Ruth Charteris Solicitor General are on the SNP cabinet. Conspiracy theories look week

[JimBHibees]

Two things. First off, I just don't believe it. If I'm wrong, and Murrell & Sturgeon have embezzled the SNP then I'll be extremely unhappy, and angry with them. Secondly, if Police Scotland have 100 police officers investigating the possible embezzlement of £600k, then the UK Police should have 10s of 1000s of officers investigating the PPE fraud carried out by senior Tory Ministers. The Tories have diverted billions of pounds to their mates and no one is even talking about it. If Murrell & Sturgeon have done wrong, then they should be investigated and charged, but in comparison with the wholesale fraud undertaken by the Tories this is classic mote / plank / eye stuff.

Agree clearly a politically driven investigation. The murder gazebo ffs. Deserve to be punished if true. After years of investigation reaches its conclusion a day after GE called. Actually wouldn’t be surprised if the election was called knowing SNP at its weakest.

[grunt]

So your going with you just don't believe it regardless of evidence that is wild. I keep trying to communicate with you in a sensible manner but you dont seem to be able to comprehend plain English.

[J-C]

If Morrell has embezzled money for personal gain, then throw the book at him, SNP supporter or not, corruption is wrong no natter who.

[marinello59]

Agree clearly a politically driven investigation. The murder gazebo ffs. Deserve to be punished if true. After years of investigation reaches its conclusion a day after GE called. Actually wouldn’t be surprised if the election was called knowing SNP at its weakest.

The senior law officer in the country is in the cabinet, Police Scotland is an SNP creation and the civil service up here is dominated by SNP appointments. So who exactly is driving this?

[McD]

Agree clearly a politically driven investigation. The murder gazebo ffs. Deserve to be punished if true. After years of investigation reaches its conclusion a day after GE called. Actually wouldn’t be surprised if the election was called knowing SNP at its weakest.



Sunak called an election at a time when the tories are polling in the gutter, their good news stories are still awful, and will almost certainly see them out of power, just to get at the SNP?

[Stairway 2 7]

Agree clearly a politically driven investigation. The murder gazebo ffs. Deserve to be punished if true. After years of investigation reaches its conclusion a day after GE called. Actually wouldn’t be surprised if the election was called knowing SNP at its weakest.

Election called by the suffering tories to hit SNP at its worst cmon this place is going full SNP QANON.

The police said a few weeks ago that the report would be in in a couple of weeks and PF would take a week after that. Everyone including the cabinet thought the Election would be October November months after PF would decide. Unless SNP formed police Scotland were tipped off before the tory cabinet. The law officer in the cabinet must be in on it too. Its a conspiracy by the yoons and so is the Matheson decision

[147lothian]

Kind of unhinged, too. Scotland would be an independent land of milk and honey by now if it wasn't for Sturgeon's personal flaws.

If half of what insiders are saying about Nicola Sturgeon is true, it's quite fair to say that the political goals of the SNP have been set back for a generation due to it all being focused on the cult of a personality.

https://www.robinmcalpine.org/the-sturgeon-era-control-paranoia-and-vanity/

[Paul1642]

The senior law officer in the country is in the cabinet, Police Scotland is an SNP creation and the civil service up here is dominated by SNP appointments. So who exactly is driving this?

This is the straight forward question that none of the folk making wild accusations are willing to answer?

Is it the dozens of financial crime detectives, who being members of the Scottish public when off duty, presumably consist of a proportionate number of SNP / Indy voters? Or did they manage to make a hand picked team of masons without any eyebrows being raised.

Is it the old chief Constable Ian Livingstone who was in post when the investigation began, or the new one Jo Farrell, and their numerous Deputies and Assistant chiefs?

Or is it members of the COPFS, who will have been kept heavily in the loop throughout this investigation as they always are during any major or high profile investigation.

Further is this a Labour conspiracy, or a Tory one, or a beautiful moment of unity between the two? Also if this great conspiracy is afoot, how are the unionists keeping all the SNP supporting members of PSOS and COPFS out of the loop?

[Ozyhibby]

If Morrell has embezzled money for personal gain, then throw the book at him, SNP supporter or not, corruption is wrong no natter who.

Besides, it’s the SNP who is the victim here.


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[Moulin Yarns]

If Morrell has embezzled money for personal gain, then throw the book at him, SNP supporter or not, corruption is wrong no natter who.

Morrell?

Someone has been kept in the dark 😂

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morchella

[marinello59]

Besides, it’s the SNP who is the victim here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Maybe we should start a GoFundMe page for them?

[Berwickhibby]

Maybe we should start a GoFundMe page for them?

:greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

If half of what insiders are saying about Nicola Sturgeon is true, it's quite fair to say that the political goals of the SNP have been set back for a generation due to it all being focused on the cult of a personality.

https://www.robinmcalpine.org/the-sturgeon-era-control-paranoia-and-vanity/

You've already posted that link. Do you think posting it twice makes it more accurate or balanced? :wink:

[JimBHibees]

The senior law officer in the country is in the cabinet, Police Scotland is an SNP creation and the civil service up here is dominated by SNP appointments. So who exactly is driving this?

Just because you create organisations does not necessarily mean you control what they do. Absolutely no doubt Police Scotland will not have been a popular move within police dom The whole timing of it is a little odd

[marinello59]

Just because you create organisations does not necessarily mean you control what they do. Absolutely no doubt Police Scotland will not have been a popular move within police dom The whole timing of it is a little odd

So who is driving this conspiracy?

[JimBHibees]

Sunak called an election at a time when the tories are polling in the gutter, their good news stories are still awful, and will almost certainly see them out of power, just to get at the SNP?

Yes maybe not being a little facetious but wouldn’t altogether rule it out given the duplicitous characters involved

[JimBHibees]

So who is driving this conspiracy?

The uk establishment of course

[marinello59]

The uk establishment of course

The SNP is the political establishment in Scotland .
Which part of it has the UK establishment… and you need to define that…. infiltrated in order to orchestrate this conspiracy and how are they doing this without somebody blowing the whistle?

[marinello59]

Yes maybe not being a little facetious but wouldn’t altogether rule it out given the duplicitous characters involved

The Tories are snakes. :greengrin

They aren’t stupid though, the best chance they have of retaining power is if the SNP make a dent in Labours seat haul.
Then again we are speaking about Sunak who is politically suicidal. :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

The SNP is the political establishment in Scotland .
Which part of it has the UK establishment… and you need to define that…. infiltrated in order to orchestrate this conspiracy and how are they doing this without somebody blowing the whistle?

You think the uk has no influence in Scotland. It is significant It is a devolved parliament not a controlling one.

[marinello59]

You think the uk has no influence in Scotland. It is significant It is a devolved parliament not a controlling one.

The Scottish Parliament controls all the parts in play here though.
Could it be, that just like the Salmond case, when this has played out, it’s not a British Establishment plot but human frailties and flaws leading people towards destructive behaviour?

[J-C]

Morrell?

Someone has been kept in the dark 😂

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morchella

Jeez bloody phone, should really check before posting, obviously Murrell I meant. I've supported SNP all my life but if what he's done is personal embezzlement, then I have little sympathy. We we're all decrying the Tories for their blatant corruption and wanted them all gone and charged, we can't then ignore it if it's one of our own.

[RyeSloan]

You think the uk has no influence in Scotland. It is significant It is a devolved parliament not a controlling one.

Not sure anyone claimed otherwise.

The question was what part of the U.K. establishment was conducting this rather drawn out cunning ploy and quite how it was being pulled off without anyone giving the game away?

Conspiracy theories always seem to rely on these dark forces having such high levels of competence in one specific area while at the same time disparaging their competence at anything and everything else.

The U.K. powers that be have been all at sea on just about everything for a rather long time but somehow they have found the time and wherewithal to mastermind a rather fantastic cross border, cross jurisdiction plot to bring down Peter Murrell for their nefarious ends! Bravo!

[147lothian]

The Scottish Parliament controls all the parts in play here though.
Could it be, that just like the Salmond case, when this has played out, it’s not a British Establishment plot but human frailties and flaws leading people towards destructive behaviour?

:top marks

[weecounty hibby]

The Tories are snakes. :greengrin

They aren’t stupid though, the best chance they have of retaining power is if the SNP make a dent in Labours seat haul.
Then again we are speaking about Sunak who is politically suicidal. :greengrin


Oh, c'mon you can't really think that any unionist government wouldn't prefer it to be a straight fight between Labour v tory. They both hate the idea of the SNP being the 3rd largest party

[Andy Bee]

Not sure anyone claimed otherwise.

The question was what part of the U.K. establishment was conducting this rather drawn out cunning ploy and quite how it was being pulled off without anyone giving the game away?

Conspiracy theories always seem to rely on these dark forces having such high levels of competence in one specific area while at the same time disparaging their competence at anything and everything else.

The U.K. powers that be have been all at sea on just about everything for a rather long time but somehow they have found the time and wherewithal to mastermind a rather fantastic cross border, cross jurisdiction plot to bring down Peter Murrell for their nefarious ends! Bravo!

Lol @ dark forces, cunning ploy and conspiracy theories, loving the emotive language my friend, are you really suggesting that certain governmental departments haven't got the power or the "wherewithal" to manipulate an outcome to which serves their own needs, really? History should show you otherwise regardless of who's "in power", incompetent or not. There's been bigger and better than Scotland sucked dry before being released by "The Union" using every underhanded method available, India for one.

[marinello59]

Oh, c'mon you can't really think that any unionist government wouldn't prefer it to be a straight fight between Labour v tory. They both hate the idea of the SNP being the 3rd largest party

Up until now the Tories have been a pretty ruthless political machine. I don’t think their hatred of the SNP would extend to rather losing the election than seeing them as the third largest party. Maybe they would , who knows with this lot though… they’re bonkers. :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

This thread has turned amazing 😆

[Berwickhibby]

It was Colonel Mustard in the Library (aided and assisted by 007 and M) in a conspiracy plot to bring down the SNP at all costs ….

[J-C]

Both Labour and the Tories know they need the resources that Scotland has, hence why they'll do anything to stop independence, remember old Gordon Brown and Co being dragged out to spread their lies to stop independence last time.

[147lothian]

It was Colonel Mustard in the Library (aided and assisted by 007 and M) in a conspiracy plot to bring down the SNP at all costs ….

Got ya, this explains why the SNP have been falling in the polls since 2019. It has nothing to do with the mistakes in policy made by Sturgeon then her continuity candidate Hamza Yousaf, and everything to an elaborate UK establishment conspiracy to bring down the SNP.

I only hope John Swinney and Kate Forbes are listening so that they can address this issue.

https://www.yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/49101-labour-ahead-of-snp-in-scotland-for-first-time-since-independence-referendum

[marinello59]

This thread has turned amazing 😆

It’s one of those ones where I keep saying to myself don’t post anymore as I hit send. :greengrin

[RyeSloan]

Lol @ dark forces, cunning ploy and conspiracy theories, loving the emotive language my friend, are you really suggesting that certain governmental departments haven't got the power or the "wherewithal" to manipulate an outcome to which serves their own needs, really? History should show you otherwise regardless of who's "in power", incompetent or not. There's been bigger and better than Scotland sucked dry before being released by "The Union" using every underhanded method available, India for one.

Wait…wait…feels to me you are doing something similar to the first poster. It’s gone something like this:

Poster 1: It’s a conspiracy I tell ya!

Poster 2: Evidence please…

Poster 1: Surely you believe they have influence to do so

Poster 3 (me): Not the argument that they may have the influence, please present ANY evidence they are involved in THIS little matter

Poster 4 (you): Aye but SURELY you have to believe they have the ability to do so…”look at that they did to India”

Poster 5 (me): I enjoy a good old Colonial reference as the next man. Can I politely point out that merely saying a bad man has done bad things doesn’t, in any way, give any indication of he was responsible for the latest bad thing that has happened.

Instinctively you may consider that to be the case but you may have to come up with something better than ‘cause he’s a bad man’ when asked to explain why that particular man on this particular occasion.

But you may of course be right. The evil hand of the shadowy Establishment may well be at play here, such things can never be discounted because they are after a bad man.

Or of course Murrell might just have cooked the books in too creative a way and a few forensic accountants have highlighted to Plod a number of irregularities!

We can of course continue this drama by considering just how many forensic accountants could also be part of the Establishment and I’ll
meet you back here once we have gone full circle in this debate once again [emoji12]

[Bostonhibby]

It was Colonel Mustard in the Library (aided and assisted by 007 and M) in a conspiracy plot to bring down the SNP at all costs ….Oh no, always thought Mustard was more of a Bozo type figure, milking the lovable eccentric Englishman caricature for all it's worth, whilst actually being far too close to those pesky Russians[emoji16]

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[147lothian]

Scotland is being treated unjustly and the scheming Colonel Mustard is behind it all from the upstairs room at the library.

Evidence for this is in Take the High Road being taken off the TV and Scottish water being privatized.

First they take our soap then they take our water.

[JimBHibees]

Both Labour and the Tories know they need the resources that Scotland has, hence why they'll do anything to stop independence, remember old Gordon Brown and Co being dragged out to spread their lies to stop independence last time.

Remember when he and another Scottish born pm tried to rewrite the boundaries of Scotland

[Hibrandenburg]

Scotland is being treated unjustly and the scheming Colonel Mustard is behind it all from the upstairs room at the library.

Evidence for this is in Take the High Road being taken off the TV and Scottish water being privatized.

First they take our soap then they take our water.

Anyone who doesn't believe the British state isn't willing to use all the organs at its disposal to prevent the break-up of the UK, hasn't been paying attention to history.

[Stairway 2 7]

Anyone who doesn't believe the British state isn't willing to use all the organs at its disposal to prevent the break-up of the UK, hasn't been paying attention to history.

There's a difference between saying brit gov tries to sway Scotland to staying to saying the utterly bat**** police framing Murrell. The law officers in the SNP cabinet would have to be in on it and police Scotland right to the top. The evidence will be scrutinised by all due to the nature of the case. It's similar to Trump supporters and the elections being stolen.

SNP have been in free fall since the Bute House. The same UK gov were in charge when SNP hammered the rest in Scottish and Westminster elections, they also had a 50 point lead over Labour. They are now 10 points behind and Sturgeon and the continuity candidates. Hopefully Flynn or Forbes takes over as demographics means we will eventually get independence if SNP stick to independence and MI5, police Scotland, interlopers in the cabinet or Ernst Stavro Blofeld won't stop it

[Keith_M]

On a more light-hearted note...


Who do you think Banksy had in mind when he painted this? :greengrin



27905

[Andy Bee]

Wait…wait…feels to me you are doing something similar to the first poster. It’s gone something like this:

Poster 1: It’s a conspiracy I tell ya!

Poster 2: Evidence please…

Poster 1: Surely you believe they have influence to do so

Poster 3 (me): Not the argument that they may have the influence, please present ANY evidence they are involved in THIS little matter

Poster 4 (you): Aye but SURELY you have to believe they have the ability to do so…”look at that they did to India”

Poster 5 (me): I enjoy a good old Colonial reference as the next man. Can I politely point out that merely saying a bad man has done bad things doesn’t, in any way, give any indication of he was responsible for the latest bad thing that has happened.

Instinctively you may consider that to be the case but you may have to come up with something better than ‘cause he’s a bad man’ when asked to explain why that particular man on this particular occasion.

But you may of course be right. The evil hand of the shadowy Establishment may well be at play here, such things can never be discounted because they are after a bad man.

Or of course Murrell might just have cooked the books in too creative a way and a few forensic accountants have highlighted to Plod a number of irregularities!

We can of course continue this drama by considering just how many forensic accountants could also be part of the Establishment and I’ll
meet you back here once we have gone full circle in this debate once again [emoji12]


:greengrin


You're right but I'm not defending Murrell, personally I think he's a little rogue. What I'm questioning is why more little rogues aren't being rounded up in a similar fashion, there's certainly no shortage of them in politics. Forensic tents, tea bags and biscuits being manhandled out the house and then the investigation against Murrell concluded the day after a snap election is called. It's all a wee bit suspect.

It was more the language being used that interested me. There's very subtle hints that just because you support Independence and you believe the British State could be involved in trying to undermine it you're some kind of Flat Earther. I'm not singling you out or even this subject being discussed but I'm becoming increasingly aware of the polarised nature peoples opinions are being formed from. It's becoming conflated with everything and it's a problem for both sides.

I've often wondered about the people who follow politics in Scotland now. On a Wednesday and Thursday night do half of them actually enjoy watching Question Time, Debate Night and BBC News whilst the other half, like myself, have to be restrained in case they chuck the dug at the telly?

[Hibrandenburg]

There's a difference between saying brit gov tries to sway Scotland to staying to saying the utterly bat**** police framing Murrell. The law officers in the SNP cabinet would have to be in on it and police Scotland right to the top. The evidence will be scrutinised by all due to the nature of the case. It's similar to Trump supporters and the elections being stolen.

SNP have been in free fall since the Bute House. The same UK gov were in charge when SNP hammered the rest in Scottish and Westminster elections, they also had a 50 point lead over Labour. They are now 10 points behind and Sturgeon and the continuity candidates. Hopefully Flynn or Forbes takes over as demographics means we will eventually get independence if SNP stick to independence and MI5, police Scotland, interlopers in the cabinet or Ernst Stavro Blofeld won't stop it

Just because they're paranoid, doesn't mean they're not out to get them.

[Keith_M]

...

I've often wondered about the people who follow politics in Scotland now. On a Wednesday and Thursday night do half of them actually enjoy watching Question Time, Debate Night and BBC News whilst the other half, like myself, have to be restrained in case they chuck the dug at the telly?


You as well?


:greengrin

[147lothian]

What John Swinney and Kate Forbes have to address is why the SNP are plummeting in the polls and why they have dwindling membership numbers.

Even before Nicola Sturgeon's resignation the rot had set in, if you look at all the disasters in the SNP they all have a Green source behind them.

The Greens have gone into government, they don't like roads or building roads, the A9 promises are reneged on which is huge in the Highlands.

The gender recognition act, the failure to accept very reasonable amendments can only be explained by Green pressure.

The unworkable bottle return scheme was implemented by a Green minister, the Green tail was wagging the SNP dog under Nicola Sturgeon much to the detriment of her government.

[Ozyhibby]

What John Swinney and Kate Forbes have to address is why the SNP are plummeting in the poll and why they have dwindling membership numbers.

Even before Nicola Sturgeon's resignation the rot had set in, if you look at all the disasters in the SNP they all have a Green source behind them.

The Greens have gone into government, they don't like roads or building roads, the A9 promises reneged on which is huge in the Highlands.

The gender recognition act, the failure to accept very reasonable amendments can only be explained by Green pressure.

The unworkable bottle return scheme was implemented by a Green minister, the Green tail was wagging the SNP dog under Nicola Sturgeon much to the detriment of her government.

I think the fact that Forbes is in there addresses all those issues? If they were not changing direction she wouldn’t be there.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I think the fact that Forbes is in there addresses all those issues? If they were not changing direction she wouldn’t be there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Defending Mathesons fraud seems to be his first major decision and questioning the committee that had two SNP Msps integrity. Said he's committed to backing gender self ID last week if able, Kate Forbes said last Friday she'll wholeheartedly endorse" the Scottish government position, so contrary to lots of screams against her. So far so continuity and I'm worried Forbes is just being used as a token and Murrells Swinney and Co will still rule all

[Ozyhibby]

Defending Mathesons fraud seems to be his first major decision and questioning the committee that had two SNP Msps integrity. Said he's committed to backing gender self ID last week if able, Kate Forbes said last Friday she'll wholeheartedly endorse" the Scottish government position, so contrary to lots of screams against her. So far so continuity and I'm worried Forbes is just being used as a token and Murrells Swinney and Co will still rule all

As far as I know he only questioned one person on the committee? Either way, it was terrible politics and he should have stayed away.


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[Andy Bee]

You as well?


:greengrin


Itinerary for Thursday nights........

Deploy the safety gear (American football helmets and pads)
Stick the goldfish upstairs
Stick the dug in the coolbox
Kill the cat, no point trying to save it as history shows it never makes it. It also negates the pressure of trying to explain to the vet why it has a dart in its head.
Deploy the TV screen protective shield (two old pallets and chicken wire) note to self....The TVSPS system needs further adaptions, very good for large objects dugs, kids etc but completely ineffective against a dart attack.
Commence watching the Fiona Bruce it's a talk show but don't dare talk if you're not going to champion my beloved husbands £3m a year contracted Tory Party.
Phone an ambulance
Start cleanup operation.
:greengrin

[Jack]

What John Swinney and Kate Forbes have to address is why the SNP are plummeting in the poll and why they have dwindling membership numbers.

Even before Nicola Sturgeon's resignation the rot had set in, if you look at all the disasters in the SNP they all have a Green source behind them.

The Greens have gone into government, they don't like roads or building roads, the A9 promises reneged on which is huge in the Highlands.

The gender recognition act, the failure to accept very reasonable amendments can only be explained by Green pressure.

The unworkable bottle return scheme was implemented by a Green minister, the Green tail was wagging the SNP dog under Nicola Sturgeon much to the detriment of her government.

Are numbers dwindling to any great extent?

One poll, albeit small numbers, earlier in the thread show an increase and I doubt the SNP, or any other party, publish membership numbers on a weekly/monthly basis. So how do we know?

[Stairway 2 7]

Are numbers dwindling to any great extent?

One poll, albeit small numbers, earlier in the thread show an increase and I doubt the SNP, or any other party, publish membership numbers on a weekly/monthly basis. So how do we know?

4 years ago snp were 50 % points ahead of Labour on yougov they are now 10 behind. Even if you say they are even the fall has been spectacular. The membership numbers also fell of a cliff at the same time. Think the bookies have them loosing about half their seats as the favourite. The fall would seem unbelievable if you were to say it in 2020

[JimBHibees]

:greengrin


You're right but I'm not defending Murrell, personally I think he's a little rogue. What I'm questioning is why more little rogues aren't being rounded up in a similar fashion, there's certainly no shortage of them in politics. Forensic tents, tea bags and biscuits being manhandled out the house and then the investigation against Murrell concluded the day after a snap election is called. It's all a wee bit suspect.

It was more the language being used that interested me. There's very subtle hints that just because you support Independence and you believe the British State could be involved in trying to undermine it you're some kind of Flat Earther. I'm not singling you out or even this subject being discussed but I'm becoming increasingly aware of the polarised nature peoples opinions are being formed from. It's becoming conflated with everything and it's a problem for both sides.

I've often wondered about the people who follow politics in Scotland now. On a Wednesday and Thursday night do half of them actually enjoy watching Question Time, Debate Night and BBC News whilst the other half, like myself, have to be restrained in case they chuck the dug at the telly?

Genuinely haven’t watched Question time or bbc news for years. Used to be a regular meaningful and balanced watch. Unrecognisable now which reflects the Tories having taken over the place in terms of control

[Stairway 2 7]

So the first full Scottish poll since the election called has Labour 5 ahead of the SNP in Scotland. Think Labour clearly a bit ahead looking at the last 3 polls. Will tighten but they need to have a good 5 weeks and next week will be Matheson. If Matheson cared about the SNP he would have walked last year instead of dragging two FMs through this

https://x.com/PolitlcsUK/status/1794813812157100191

Green behind reform 😲
LAB: 35%
SNP: 30%
CON: 17%
LDM: 10%
REF: 4%
GRN: 3%

[147lothian]

Are numbers dwindling to any great extent?

One poll, albeit small numbers, earlier in the thread show an increase and I doubt the SNP, or any other party, publish membership numbers on a weekly/monthly basis. So how do we know?

SNP membership numbers really are dwindling at a great extent.

SNP membership numbers in 2019 were 125,000

At the end of December 2023 ie just 5 months ago SNP membership numbers were 69,235

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,exclusive-snp-membership-numbers-fall-again-new-figures-reveal#:~:text=SNP%20membership%20has%20fallen%20a gain,declined%20to%20just%20under%2072%2C190.

[Andy Bee]

SNP membership numbers are really are dwindling at a great extent.

SNP membership numbers in 2019 were 125,000

At the end of December 2023 ie just over 5 months ago SNP membership numbers were 69,235

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,exclusive-snp-membership-numbers-fall-again-new-figures-reveal#:~:text=SNP%20membership%20has%20fallen%20a gain,declined%20to%20just%20under%2072%2C190.

In March24 they were 72,178 confirmed due to the leadership contest so all good, they're on the rise, Saltires at the ready folks :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

SNP membership numbers are really are dwindling at a great extent.

SNP membership numbers in 2019 were 125,000

At the end of December 2023 ie just over 5 months ago SNP membership numbers were 69,235

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,exclusive-snp-membership-numbers-fall-again-new-figures-reveal#:~:text=SNP%20membership%20has%20fallen%20a gain,declined%20to%20just%20under%2072%2C190.

What are Scottish Labour numbers?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[marinello59]

Keith Brown doubles down on Swinney's support for Matheson and now a deal is being discussed with the Greens to reduce the proposed punishment. So much for Swinney changing things. The same sort of party before country arrogance and sense of entitlement that preceded New Labour's downfall.

[weecounty hibby]

Without reading all of the reports on this isn't it the case that Swinney has said that he is guilty but the punishment is excessive? So not really supporting Mathieson, more questioning the length of punishment

[marinello59]

Without reading all of the reports on this isn't it the case that Swinney has said that he is guilty but the punishment is excessive? So not really supporting Mathieson, more questioning the length of punishment

He said his friend had made a mistake. A mistake. Stealing tax payers money and repeated lies about it to try and cover it up would certainly not be described by Swinney as a mistake if a member of any other party had done it. And nor should it be. In Swinney's world the real villains are the select committee. That's straight out of Boris Johnstone's playbook.

[Ozyhibby]

Without reading all of the reports on this isn't it the case that Swinney has said that he is guilty but the punishment is excessive? So not really supporting Mathieson, more questioning the length of punishment

Yes


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[Stairway 2 7]

Without reading all of the reports on this isn't it the case that Swinney has said that he is guilty but the punishment is excessive? So not really supporting Mathieson, more questioning the length of punishment

He downplayed everything he said it was just a mistake to wrack up the bill, that's a lie as Matheson admitted he was streaming out his data which is against parliament rules.
He said Matheson paid the bill so there was no cost to the public purse, that's deliberately missing the part where he tried to Rob the tax payer by putting it on expenses.
He said he didn't agree with the sanctions as someone on the committee was prejudiced against Matheson, he didn't mention to SNP MSPs back Matheson loosing his wages the vote was unanimous.
He said Matheson has had enough punishment and shouldn't resign as he's had reputation damage and had to quit his ministerial role, ho hum don't try and diddle the tax payer.
He didn't mention Matheson admitted to lying to the press and parliament to defend his kids, no one was blaming his kids he let them use his data.

He's defending the indefensible anyone of us would have lost our jobs, in Westminster there would be a byelection, a single mum diddling the tax payer doesn't get to just pay it back and forget about it.

Swinney is showing loyalty to a friend but he's FM, Matheson should have walked last year but he's selfish, he'll get bombed at next election

[Berwickhibby]

Matheson is thief pure and simple, had this occurred in any other employment, he would have arrested for theft or attempted theft and sacked for gross misconduct. One rule for politicians again.

[Andy Bee]

This is an absolute **** show. It could be a marketing managers dream for the SNP with drookit Sunak calling an election on, of all days, the biggest Independence Day celebration in the world, Sarwar taking cash out his family business which seems to be the Scottish equivalent of a sweat shop and Wes Streeting proclaiming on National TV that all roads lead to Westminster in regards to devolved NHS problems. Yet these eejits are feeding a narrative which will run for weeks without any positive outcome. Mathieson needs to stand down sharpish.

[Hiber-nation]

This is an absolute **** show. It could be a marketing managers dream for the SNP with drookit Sunak calling an election on, of all days, the biggest Independence Day celebration in the world, Sarwar taking cash out his family business which seems to be the Scottish equivalent of a Chinese sweat shop and Wes Streeting proclaiming on National TV that all roads lead to Westminster in regards to devolved NHS problems. Yet these eejits are feeding a narrative which will run for weeks without any positive outcome. Mathieson needs to stand down sharpish.

It's just ridiculous. But it's trademark Swinney. He made a good start but a couple of weeks on and it's falling apart already. Mathieson isn't even a competent Minister.

[marinello59]

It's just ridiculous. But it's trademark Swinney. He made a good start but a couple of weeks on and it's falling apart already. Mathieson isn't even a competent Minister.

I'd respectfully disagree. Part of the tragedy of all this is I reckon he was the best health secretary we had had for a while.

[Hiber-nation]

I'd respectfully disagree. Part of the tragedy of all this is I reckon he was the best health secretary we had had for a while.

Not according to my ex colleague who worked in Health at the time. But he's a grumpy so and so 😁

[marinello59]

Not according to my ex colleague who worked in Health at the time. But he's a grumpy so and so 😁

:greengrin

[One Day Soon]

This is an absolute **** show. It could be a marketing managers dream for the SNP with drookit Sunak calling an election on, of all days, the biggest Independence Day celebration in the world, Sarwar taking cash out his family business which seems to be the Scottish equivalent of a Chinese sweat shop and Wes Streeting proclaiming on National TV that all roads lead to Westminster in regards to devolved NHS problems. Yet these eejits are feeding a narrative which will run for weeks without any positive outcome. Mathieson needs to stand down sharpish.

You might want to retract that, for all sorts of reasons.

[Andy Bee]

You might want to retract that, for all sorts of reasons.


You're right of course....duly done. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

I see the SNP will now vote for Mathesons suspension. Interesting that it was Forbes who announced it.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I see the SNP will now vote for Mathesons suspension. Interesting that it was Forbes who announced it.


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U turn from Swinney saying in Parliament that he could not support the ban. Using up so much political capital on the indefensible. It should really be a byelection

[marinello59]

I see the SNP will now vote for Mathesons suspension. Interesting that it was Forbes who announced it.


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After failing to agree a deal with the Greens Swinney knew there was no way he could whip his MSPs to vote against sanctions when the vote was going to be lost. The game was up, his friend will have to face the consequences of his actions.
Of course he let Forbes announce it, Teflon John is never wrong as we saw during his disastrous tenure as Education Secretary.

[Stairway 2 7]

Double u turn SNP to vote against Matheson getting a fine, well Swinney did say he's a good friend so perhaps expected. They should lose the vote as all other parties for the ban. What a first two weeks of the 6 weeks campaign this will be

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c900n0dg97yo?at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_format=link&at_link_id=887A085A-1DAF-11EF-9FB7-E93199FCF2D4&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_campaign_type=owned&at_medium=social&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_link_type=web_link

[marinello59]

Double u turn SNP to vote against Matheson getting a fine, well Swinney did say he's a good friend so perhaps expected. They should lose the vote as all other parties for the ban. What a first two weeks of the 6 weeks campaign this will be

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c900n0dg97yo?at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_format=link&at_link_id=887A085A-1DAF-11EF-9FB7-E93199FCF2D4&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_campaign_type=owned&at_medium=social&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_link_type=web_link

Wow. Just wow!

[Jack]

It looks to me that the two of them are looking for a Presidential style election. It would certainly suit Labour, in Scotland, to turn the election into a two horse race; vote Labour to get the torys out. Something the vast majority of Scotland agrees with.

[marinello59]

Forbes amendment on Matheson sanctions passed , Greens voted for.
Sanctions against Matheson passed, SNP members look to have all abstained.

[marinello59]

One for geeks only I guess but I was struggling to understand why the SNP did not ask for a watering down of the sanctions in their amendment rather then abstaining when it came to voting for their own amended motion.
Patrick Harvie has just said that the Greens would not have voted for any watering down of the punishment so an SNP amendment asking for that that would have failed. A weird day.

[Hibs4185]

I just read someone on twitter saying the SNP is left wing.

It is, or was under sturgeon and Humza.

This is their biggest mistake.

Centrists are the majority in most countries.

SNP should only be about independence, full stop. In order to achieve this, they need to appeal to the majority.

Hopefully the way it looks like it’s heading with JS and KF, the party is heading back to the middle ground and delivering on the economy and common sense issue.

In saying that, this Matthewson stuff has stopped some of the fresh momentum.

[superfurryhibby]

I just read someone on twitter saying the SNP is left wing.

It is, or was under sturgeon and Humza.

This is their biggest mistake.

Centrists are the majority in most countries.

SNP should only be about independence, full stop. In order to achieve this, they need to appeal to the majority.

Hopefully the way it looks like it’s heading with JS and KF, the party is heading back to the middle ground and delivering on the economy and common sense issue.

In saying that, this Matthewson stuff has stopped some of the fresh momentum.

I would take issue with anyone describing the SNP as left wing, clearly not the case.

However, you do understand that Scotland last voted in a majority of seats for a right wing part in the late 1950's? I think you'll find that most Scots favour centre left politics.

[Hibs4185]

I would take issue with anyone describing the SNP as left wing, clearly not the case.

However, you do understand that Scotland last voted in a majority of seats for a right wing part in the late 1950's? I think you'll find that most Scots favour centre left politics.

I did say the majority are centrists and it looks like the party is heading back that way under JS and KF?

[superfurryhibby]

I did say the majority are centrists and it looks like the party is heading back that way under JS and KF?

Scotland voted for a socialist party in general elections from 1956-until 2009. The Centre was/is occupied by the Liberal Party, then the Lib -Dems. I would never have described the SNP under Sturgeon or Humza as a left wing party. I think people want a moderate left wing government in Scotland, as opposed to full blooded socialism, hence centre-left.

[Stairway 2 7]

SNP were firmly centre left neoliberal under Sturgeon. They went down the green party path which isn't anything to do with left and right. I have seen them shift right in anyway recently when it comes to actual policy. Labour and tories in Scotland are probably to the left of their motherships. Labour probably centre right in Westminster, tories pushing far right

I agree though SNP lost interest in independence a while ago.

[Hibrandenburg]

SNP were firmly centre left neoliberal under Sturgeon. They went down the green party path which isn't anything to do with left and right. I have seen them shift right in anyway recently when it comes to actual policy. Labour and tories in Scotland are probably to the left of their motherships. Labour probably centre right in Westminster, tories pushing far right

I agree though SNP lost interest in independence a while ago.

As I suggested earlier in the thread before I was told I'm talking pish, Labour in Scotland will have to do the splits between what the electorate in Scotland expect from a Scottish Labour Party and what a new Westminster Labour government will do that effects Scotland. There's plenty room for conflict between what's bad for Scotland but good for the rest of the UK and vice versa.

[Hibs4185]

I think in the GE, SNP don’t really need to campaign on anything else but independence. They are too small to have an influence on policy.

Labour and conservatives need the seats to win power. SNP will never win of course. Independence should be front and centre. Concentrate on every yes voter turning out and voting for the SNP. That guarantees a vast majority of seats and gives them a mandate to discuss independence.

Save the politics and polices to the Hollyrood election

[Paul1642]

I hate the right wing and left wing terminology because politics and political party’s don’t sit nicely on a sliding scale. A good party (when did we last see one of those) would have certain policy’s, both economic and social, that’s could be left wing and other policy’s that could be right wing. It’s really not that black and white.

[JimBHibees]

I hate the right wing and left wing terminology because politics and political party’s don’t sit nicely on a sliding scale. A good party (when did we last see one of those) would have certain policy’s, both economic and social, that’s could be left wing and other policy’s that could be right wing. It’s really not that black and white.

Agree as don’t think there is genuinely a left wing party. Labour tried it with Corbyn and see how that worked particularly by the rabid right wing media and effectively neutered BBC

[147lothian]

The coalition between the SNP and the Greens, meant there was no effective opposition to Nicola Sturgeon in Scotland, this gave Nicola Sturgeon entitlement, most clearly demonstrated when she smugly IMO failed to accept very reasonable amendments to the GRA from feminist members of her party. Dismissing their concerns as "Not Relevant".

The same entitlement was seen in Hamza Yousaf when he didn't accept that there were no places at the moment for his child at a Broughty Ferry nursery and took legal action against the nursery for racial discrimination, until as all transpired the owner of the nursery was Asian.

This entitlement IMO has caused the SNP to plummet in the polls, and caused dwindling membership numbers over the past four years.

The question is have the SNP lost their hubris and entitlement under John Swinney and Kate Forbes? Or is it still the same? Thought please.

[Ozyhibby]

The coalition between the SNP and the Greens, meant there was no effective opposition to Nicola Sturgeon in Scotland, this gave Nicola Sturgeon entitlement, most clearly demonstrated when she smugly IMO failed to accept very reasonable amendments to the GRA from feminist members of her party. Dismissing their concerns as "Not Relevant".

The same entitlement was seen in Hamza Yousaf when he didn't accept that there were no places at the moment for his child at a Broughty Ferry nursery and took legal action against the nursery for racial discrimination, until as all transpired the owner of the nursery was Asian.

This entitlement IMO has caused the SNP to plummet in the polls, and caused dwindling membership numbers over the past four years.

The question is have the SNP lost their hubris and entitlement under John Swinney and Kate Forbes? Or is it still the same? Thought please.

Probably too late for this election but it’s clear there has been a huge shift in focus post Yousaf.
This is going to be a far more centrist administration with a big focus on business and the economy.
They have two years to make that count with voters.


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[marinello59]

The coalition between the SNP and the Greens, meant there was no effective opposition to Nicola Sturgeon in Scotland, this gave Nicola Sturgeon entitlement, most clearly demonstrated when she smugly IMO failed to accept very reasonable amendments to the GRA from feminist members of her party. Dismissing their concerns as "Not Relevant".

The same entitlement was seen in Hamza Yousaf when he didn't accept that there were no places at the moment for his child at a Broughty Ferry nursery and took legal action against the nursery for racial discrimination, until as all transpired the owner of the nursery was Asian.

This entitlement IMO has caused the SNP to plummet in the polls, and caused dwindling membership numbers over the past four years.

The question is have the SNP lost their hubris and entitlement under John Swinney and Kate Forbes? Or is it still the same? Thought please.

The Matheson affair suggests Swinney thinks people will vote SNP regardless of what he does. We are beyond New Labour levels of entitlement now.

[Ozyhibby]

The Matheson affair suggests Swinney thinks people will vote SNP regardless of what he does. We are beyond New Labour levels of entitlement now.

What did Swinney vote?


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[Stairway 2 7]

What did Swinney vote?


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He didn't vote for the ban unlike the two SNP MSPs on the board. He also spent the time leading up to it defending Matheson and saying the decision was unfair. No mention of Matheson trying to Rob the public or him lying to parliament and the press.

[marinello59]

What did Swinney vote?


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He voted for an amendment put forward by the SNP then abstained when it came to backing it along with every other SNP MSP. Effectively they backed no sanction.

[hibee]

The Matheson affair suggests Swinney thinks people will vote SNP regardless of what he does. We are beyond New Labour levels of entitlement now.

Unfortunately he’s right, people will continue to vote for them as long as they keep promising independence and not delivering it.

[Berwickhibby]

Talk about cronyism… Swinney’s Support of Matheson is Tory like behaviour

[Jack]

Talk about cronyism… Swinney’s Support of Matheson is Tory like behaviour

https://news.stv.tv/east-central/woman-fined-for-sending-racist-and-abusive-emails-to-patrick-harvie-about-humza-yousaf

[Berwickhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/east-central/woman-fined-for-sending-racist-and-abusive-emails-to-patrick-harvie-about-humza-yousaf

Shocking behaviour and she deserved the punishment for commenting an offence..still does not negate the blatant cronyism of Swinney and Matheson

[marinello59]

https://news.stv.tv/east-central/woman-fined-for-sending-racist-and-abusive-emails-to-patrick-harvie-about-humza-yousaf

Absolutely disgusting behaviour, thank goodness people like her are few and far between.

What does it have to do with Swinney backing Matheson though?

[Jack]

Absolutely disgusting behaviour, thank goodness people like her are few and far between.

What does it have to do with Swinney backing Matheson though?

I was drawing Berwickhibbys attention to it what with his "pet" names for various politicians.

[marinello59]

I was drawing Berwickhibbys attention to it what with his "pet" names for various politicians.

Thanks for clarifying.
I’m still baffled but that’s a natural state for me. :greengrin

[Berwickhibby]

I was drawing Berwickhibbys attention to it what with his "pet" names for various politicians.

None of my “Pet names” are racist, sexist or abusive

[Ozyhibby]

Absolutely disgusting behaviour, thank goodness people like her are few and far between.

What does it have to do with Swinney backing Matheson though?

Not that few and far between. The amount of abusive comms with the SNP outstripped the other parties put together by about 6-1 on recently released figures.


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[marinello59]

Not that few and far between. The amount of abusive comms with the SNP outstripped the other parties put together by about 6-1 on recently released figures.


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The ruling parties, the actual decision makers, will always attract more abuse. As will women regardless of party Can’t we just condemn all instances of abuse like this as totally unacceptable without trying to claim some sort of superior victim status for our personal champions?

The people throwing this sort of abuse about are in the minority. My use of the term few and far between is more a reflection of my view that the vast majority of human beings are basically decent people. Some may say I’m a dreamer……:greengrin

[lapsedhibee]

None of my “Pet names” are racist, sexist or abusive

The STV report appears to be describing this about Yousaf as abusive:

She referred to the former Scottish government minister as a “bent shot” and Mr Yousaf as “Humza Useless.”

[Berwickhibby]

The STV report appears to be describing this about Yousaf as abusive:

She referred to the former Scottish government minister as a “bent shot” and Mr Yousaf as “Humza Useless.”

The first slur is homophobic …the second is pretty accurate

Bit more context in other papers

The offence was stated to have been racially aggravated.

Urquhart, of Danderhall, Midlothian, was fined £500 by Sheriff Shirley McKenna.

The court heard that Urquhart contacted Mr Harvie by email on March 18.

She said: "You are a horrible twisted bent excuse of a man.


"You are so up Humza Useless a***, all that's left is your smelly wee feet.

"Useless wants this law for all the Muslims to say what they like.

"We are not allowed to say anything and before long with you and Useless we will be wearing hijabs and going to the mosque on Friday afternoon.


"If I had a gun, I would shoot you myself. The quicker you lot are gone, the better for us all.

"If Muslims don't like it, they can go back to where they came from."

Urquhart then went on to send a second abusive email on April 10.

It said: "Morning you twisted little gnaff, noticed you have been unusually quiet.

"You and your other useless cohort she man Slater not forgetting Yousaf probably has shares in these companies lining your own pockets.

"I bet Humza wants to bring more of these people in and we are already a saturated country.

"As far as that bent shot Gray bangs on about our country having an open door for refugees.

"Let you, him and Useless take them in their homes and keep them and spend their own money.

"You always pick on private landlords due to your spiteful eviction."

[Stairway 2 7]

Disgusting patter if trying to link Berwicks names of calling them useless to vile racist and homophobic messages, a real low that

[lapsedhibee]

Disgusting patter if trying to link Berwicks names of calling them useless to vile racist and homophobic messages, a real low that

This must have happened in your imagination, because it didn't happen in the thread.

[Stairway 2 7]

This must have happened in your imagination, because it didn't happen in the thread.

No having that. Why is someone bringing his attention to a series of vile attacks just because they also used a mild name he did. It's a nudge and a wink and poor, what's he got to do with that women's messages

[J-C]

The first slur is homophobic …the second is pretty accurate

Bit more context in other papers

The offence was stated to have been racially aggravated.

Urquhart, of Danderhall, Midlothian, was fined £500 by Sheriff Shirley McKenna.

The court heard that Urquhart contacted Mr Harvie by email on March 18.

She said: "You are a horrible twisted bent excuse of a man.


"You are so up Humza Useless a***, all that's left is your smelly wee feet.

"Useless wants this law for all the Muslims to say what they like.

"We are not allowed to say anything and before long with you and Useless we will be wearing hijabs and going to the mosque on Friday afternoon.


"If I had a gun, I would shoot you myself. The quicker you lot are gone, the better for us all.

"If Muslims don't like it, they can go back to where they came from."

Urquhart then went on to send a second abusive email on April 10.

It said: "Morning you twisted little gnaff, noticed you have been unusually quiet.

"You and your other useless cohort she man Slater not forgetting Yousaf probably has shares in these companies lining your own pockets.

"I bet Humza wants to bring more of these people in and we are already a saturated country.

"As far as that bent shot Gray bangs on about our country having an open door for refugees.

"Let you, him and Useless take them in their homes and keep them and spend their own money.

"You always pick on private landlords due to your spiteful eviction."

WOW just WOW.

[Hibrandenburg]

The first slur is homophobic …the second is pretty accurate

Bit more context in other papers

The offence was stated to have been racially aggravated.

Urquhart, of Danderhall, Midlothian, was fined £500 by Sheriff Shirley McKenna.

The court heard that Urquhart contacted Mr Harvie by email on March 18.

She said: "You are a horrible twisted bent excuse of a man.


"You are so up Humza Useless a***, all that's left is your smelly wee feet.

"Useless wants this law for all the Muslims to say what they like.

"We are not allowed to say anything and before long with you and Useless we will be wearing hijabs and going to the mosque on Friday afternoon.


"If I had a gun, I would shoot you myself. The quicker you lot are gone, the better for us all.

"If Muslims don't like it, they can go back to where they came from."

Urquhart then went on to send a second abusive email on April 10.

It said: "Morning you twisted little gnaff, noticed you have been unusually quiet.

"You and your other useless cohort she man Slater not forgetting Yousaf probably has shares in these companies lining your own pockets.

"I bet Humza wants to bring more of these people in and we are already a saturated country.

"As far as that bent shot Gray bangs on about our country having an open door for refugees.

"Let you, him and Useless take them in their homes and keep them and spend their own money.

"You always pick on private landlords due to your spiteful eviction."

God I hope we're not related.

[Keith_M]

God I hope we're not related.


Do you have any relatives called Maureen?



:dunno:

[Hibrandenburg]

Do you have any relatives called Maureen?



:dunno:

Who knows what all my exes have called their kids? :duck:

[lapsedhibee]

No having that. Why is someone bringing his attention to a series of vile attacks just because they also used a mild name he did. It's a nudge and a wink and poor, what's he got to do with that women's messages

The way STV reported things, the 'useless' bit seemed to count as 'abusive'. Berwick disagrees that 'useless' is abusive, and believes it to be 'accurate'. That's all. The nudging, winking and disgusting patter is all in your head.

[Stairway 2 7]

The way STV reported things, the 'useless' bit seemed to count as 'abusive'. Berwick disagrees that 'useless' is abusive, and believes it to be 'accurate'. That's all. The nudging, winking and disgusting patter is all in your head.

You are conveniently missing out bent shot. Still don't see why the vile comments were highlighted to Berwick, everyone knows useless isn't the same as homophobic, violent and racist comments. Most of the tories are useless that has no link to anyone writing horrible stuff about their race ect

[Berwickhibby]

I have used ‘Pet names’ for politicians which imho have not breached any legal legislation. They have not breached this message boards code of conduct as I have never received a warning from admin. If using DRoss, Nippy, Yousless or Bozo is a now to be a criminal offence I await to a tap on the door from the polis. I don’t consider myself raciest or homophobic so any suggestions that I am I will defend vigorously. Seems strange that only the Nippy and Yousless names have prompted comments :greengrin

[Berwickhibby]

Looks like Matheson is going to get his collar felt https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c844gn9xwkjo

[Ozyhibby]

Looks like Matheson is going to get his collar felt https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c844gn9xwkjo

Of course he is. Next time Police Scotland whine about their budget I’ll be ignoring them. Absolute clowns. They are clearly awash with spare cash.


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[Ozyhibby]

New rail line opened today to Leven. Well done the SNP. And well done the BBC in completely ignoring it. [emoji849]


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[Berwickhibby]

Of course he is. Next time Police Scotland whine about their budget I’ll be ignoring them. Absolute clowns. They are clearly awash with spare cash.


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It’s an absolute offence …he unlawfully obtained funds with a fraudulent claim..only paid back when caught…lied about the circumstances…in any other walk of life it would have been instant dismissal and if passed to the police charged.

[Hiber-nation]

New rail line opened today to Leven. Well done the SNP. And well done the BBC in completely ignoring it. [emoji849]


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There was an article on either Scotland Today or Reporting Ferries the other night.

[J-C]

It’s an absolute offence …he unlawfully obtained funds with a fraudulent claim..only paid back when caught…lied about the circumstances…in any other walk of life it would have been instant dismissal and if passed to the police charged.

Is it not up to the institute he represents to bring a charge by going to the police and making a complaint, do the police normally get involved with this before an official complaint is made.

[Berwickhibby]

Is it not up to the institute he represents to bring a charge by going to the police and making a complaint, do the police normally get involved with this before an official complaint is made.

As suspected a new complaint was made

Police in Scotland are currently assessing a new complaint against former Health Secretary Michael Matheson regarding an £11,000 iPad data roaming bill that he attempted to charge to taxpayers. This development comes after a Holyrood committee's damning investigation and Matheson's record 27-sitting day suspension from the Scottish Parliament.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/_kateforbes/status/1796844196457800073?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A
Early signs of progress.


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[JimBHibees]

As suspected a new complaint was made

Police in Scotland are currently assessing a new complaint against former Health Secretary Michael Matheson regarding an £11,000 iPad data roaming bill that he attempted to charge to taxpayers. This development comes after a Holyrood committee's damning investigation and Matheson's record 27-sitting day suspension from the Scottish Parliament.

Simply wow

[Paul1642]

Of course he is. Next time Police Scotland whine about their budget I’ll be ignoring them. Absolute clowns. They are clearly awash with spare cash.


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“Mr Matheson was reported to the police last year, but the complaint was not taken forward”

“The nature of the new complaint is unclear”

So without even knowing what has been alleged, you’ve decided this is part of the great police Scotland anti SNP conspiracy. They haven’t even said they are treating whatever has been alleged as a crime.

If SNP MSPs weren’t so partial to a touch of fraudulent behaviour then police Scotland could use much needed resources elsewhere.

I’m under no illusion that if I were to make a false claim of any amount, especially a five figure sum, I would be both sacked and reported criminally.

Not sure how you’ve made the leap to police Scotland being the bad guys.

[superfurryhibby]

As suspected a new complaint was made

Police in Scotland are currently assessing a new complaint against former Health Secretary Michael Matheson regarding an £11,000 iPad data roaming bill that he attempted to charge to taxpayers. This development comes after a Holyrood committee's damning investigation and Matheson's record 27-sitting day suspension from the Scottish Parliament.

It seems that fraud is something easy to just brush under the carpet for our political class. This should always have been a police matter and the scrounging MSP should have been booted from his party once he was found out.

[JimBHibees]

“Mr Matheson was reported to the police last year, but the complaint was not taken forward”

“The nature of the new complaint is unclear”

So without even knowing what has been alleged, you’ve decided this is part of the great police Scotland anti SNP conspiracy. They haven’t even said they are treating whatever has been alleged as a crime.

If SNP MSPs weren’t so partial to a touch of fraudulent behaviour then police Scotland could use much needed resources elsewhere.

I’m under no illusion that if I were to make a false claim of any amount, especially a five figure sum, I would be both sacked and reported criminally.

Not sure how you’ve made the leap to police Scotland being the bad guys.

The timing is the interesting aspect of course

[marinello59]

The timing is the interesting aspect of course

It really is. Swinney choosing to launch his election campaign by defending the indefensible is utterly baffling. He could have put this to bed.
This complaint is mischievous to say the least but it was always going to happen after the ruling party effectively backed no sanctions for one of their own.

[JimBHibees]

It really is. Swinney choosing to launch his election campaign by defending the indefensible is utterly baffling. He could have put this to bed.
This complaint is mischievous to say the least but it was always going to happen after the ruling party effectively backed no sanctions for one of their own.

Would he have been able to put anything to bed if a mischievous complaint goes in. Clearly orchestrated

[Berwickhibby]

Did he fraudulently claim £11k from the taxpayers? YES. Once discovered, did he lie on more than one occasion about the circumstances of the claim? YES I accept that he paid the funds claimed back.

I use the term fraudulent or thief quite intentionally, unless MSPs are exempt but when claiming expenditures within public bodies you sign a declaration that it’s an honest and true expense which you are entitled to claim. I don’t think roaming charges to watch Celtic TV fits.

[marinello59]

Would he have been able to put anything to bed if a mischievous complaint goes in. Clearly orchestrated

He couldn’t have chosen a worse course of action though could he? As political missteps go that was a belter. Apparently the Westminster contingent nearly self combusted when they heard. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

He couldn’t have chosen a worse course of action though could he? As political missteps go that was a belter. Apparently the Westminster contingent nearly self combusted when they heard. :greengrin

A clear misstep by Swinney but one which he clearly rowed back on within 24 hours thankfully. Difficult to say if he changed or was urged to change by others. Either way it’s done.
Since has moved back to focus on economy and it’s been focus of speech today.
There has been a clear change in direction from the SNP now but it’s going to take time for it to start to pay dividends.


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[marinello59]

A clear misstep by Swinney but one which he clearly rowed back on within 24 hours thankfully. Difficult to say if he changed or was urged to change by others. Either way it’s done.
Since has moved back to focus on economy and it’s been focus of speech today.
There has been a clear change in direction from the SNP now but it’s going to take time for it to start to pay dividends.


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How did he row back on it? :confused:

[Ozyhibby]

How did he row back on it? :confused:

Yes, they abstained instead of voting against. And he has avoided the issue since.


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