SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/angusmacneilsnp/status/1679099444845764609?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Good news.


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[grunt]

Whoosh 😉
Er, no.

[He's here!]

https://twitter.com/angusmacneilsnp/status/1679099444845764609?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Good news.


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Aka the implosion continues...

[Ozyhibby]

Aka the implosion continues...

I assume there has been lots of expressions of regret and sorrow from SNP politicians over the last couple of hours?
This is a good news story for the SNP. He’s a clown we are well shot of. They’ll be opening the bubbly at SNP hq this afternoon.


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[Jones28]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230712/520d118d0d82dd3199ead534c601bf48.png

It’s not nice having to pay more but the SNP have done more than any other party to reduce council tax.


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It doesn't make a huge amount of difference to me, I'm still going to have to pay more!

[archie]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230712/520d118d0d82dd3199ead534c601bf48.png

It’s not nice having to pay more but the SNP have done more than any other party to reduce council tax.


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Although they did break their promise to scrap it.

[Jack]

Although they did break their promise to scrap it.

You don't happen to have a list of all the manifesto pledges that haven't been kept by other parties do you?

Without looking it up that won't be the only SNP one and there will be loads of examples from the other parties.

Any idea who might be top of the pops?

[archie]

You don't happen to have a list of all the manifesto pledges that haven't been kept by other parties do you?

Without looking it up that won't be the only SNP one and there will be loads of examples from the other parties.

Any idea who might be top of the pops?

No idea. It's just they made such a big thing of it 'We will scrap the hated Council Tax'. And they didn't.

[Ozyhibby]

No idea. It's just they made such a big thing of it 'We will scrap the hated Council Tax'. And they didn't.

It was a daft pledge because you can’t really get rid of any aspect of tax in Scotland without full control of all taxation. Any kind of meaningful reform is impossible.


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[marinello59]

It was a daft pledge because you can’t really get rid of any aspect of tax in Scotland without full control of all taxation. Any kind of meaningful reform is impossible.


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So they were either daft or liars. Or both :greengrin

[grunt]

So they were either daft or liars. Or both :greengrin
Or naively optimistic.

[archie]

Or naively optimistic.

I think they didn't expect to win. Once in they didn't want to create the inevitable ****storm that any reform of local taxation would bring.

[Ozyhibby]

I think they didn't expect to win. Once in they didn't want to create the inevitable ****storm that any reform of local taxation would bring.

They didn’t have the powers. They did freeze it for 11 years though.


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[marinello59]

They didn’t have the powers. They did freeze it for 11 years though.


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They did have the powers. They didn’t have the will. The freeze was straight out of the Tory playbook who were the only other party to support it.

[Stairway 2 7]

They didn’t have the powers. They did freeze it for 11 years though.


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They shouldn't have, populist nonsense. Pleased with the rise great stuff, but a decade too late

[Glory Lurker]

Did the SNP not table legislation for local income tax but it ran aground?

[marinello59]

Did the SNP not table legislation for local income tax but it ran aground?

No.

[Ged]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/scottish-government-publishes-plans-for-steep-council-tax-hike-on-quarter-of-households

Seems like a sensible move?


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It's difficult to put into words how delighted I am to be taxed more so that the handouts can continue.

[Glory Lurker]

No.

I should have double-checked before asking. I really need to get that new Google software on my phone! But it was the case the policy deflated not of its own accord?

http://www.payrollworld.com/article/1249/hmrc/snp-drops-local-income-tax-after-hmrcs-letter/

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/scotland/2964037/Benefits-to-continue-under-Labour-tax-plans-but-not-SNPs.html

[CropleyWasGod]

It's difficult to put into words how delighted I am to be taxed more so that the handouts can continue.

Handouts?

I'm delighted that the potholes in our roads might get fixed :cb

[Stairway 2 7]

Angus MacNeil attacks NS. He says he won't join Alba, but I see him joining then losing to Labour and that'll be him

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23654584.angus-macneil-nicola-sturgeon-silenced-colleagues-independence/

[Ozyhibby]

Angus MacNeil attacks NS. He says he won't join Alba, but I see him joining then losing to Labour and that'll be him

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23654584.angus-macneil-nicola-sturgeon-silenced-colleagues-independence/

MacNeil is from the ‘just declare Indy today’ end of the spectrum. Clearly not very bright. It’s been a good week, him stepping down, even if he does stand as an independent next election and that allows Labour in.


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[He's here!]

Angus MacNeil attacks NS. He says he won't join Alba, but I see him joining then losing to Labour and that'll be him

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23654584.angus-macneil-nicola-sturgeon-silenced-colleagues-independence/

Yes, hard to believe he's not Alba-bound.

[cabbageandribs1875]

don't worry calmac, the Herald will do what the BBC/Daily ******/Sun/Express do...type an apology three days later in the smallest print on page 36/whatever

Customer Update | Response to The Herald article, 13 July 2023 | CalMac Ferries (https://www.calmac.co.uk/customer-updates/response-to-herald-article?fbclid=IwAR2HKZ8vAIlFy5HEYRcY9EoBy1poKMIwp r2EjDcqHpRyzyOvYcPQ3MlY8Ms)

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scots-pay-cheaper-water-bills-30468794?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scots-pay-cheaper-water-bills-30468794?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar


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I saw a fact check debunk this. England's average household is 2.8 people Scotland 2.3. Obviously more water use per house, it breaks out even on price. Although there water tastes like bathwater and we've no hosebans so..

[Just Alf]

I saw a fact check debunk this. England's average household is 2.8 people Scotland 2.3. Obviously more water use per house, it breaks out even on price. Although there water tastes like bathwater and we've no hosebans so..To be fair the article does say "household"
What drives the difference? More kids? :dunno:




Mr S27, I didn't think you would be one who thinks the children should also pay their way!
:greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

To be fair the article does say "household"
What drives the difference? More kids? :dunno:




Mr S27, I didn't think you would be one who thinks the children should also pay their way!
:greengrin

No the parents pay, but if you have more kids you obviously use more, so pay more.

I wish it was us who had the higher birth rate tbf

[Just Alf]

No the parents pay, but if you have more kids you obviously use more, so pay more.

I wish it was us who had the higher birth rate tbf1st sentence, hence the service being delivered at a lower cost per household is a good thing for us all imho.

And yup, 100% with you on your 2nd point :agree:

[Stairway 2 7]

1st sentence, hence the service being delivered at a lower cost per household is a good thing for us all imho.

And yup, 100% with you on your 2nd point :agree:

The service is the same price per person, the same way as in general a 3 person house will pay 50% more for food than 2, it doesn't mean the 2 person is getting cheaper food.

If Scotlands households rise to that of England and the price stays the same then that would be a bargain. If we paid the same is England we'd be furious as we use less

[Ozyhibby]

The service is the same price per person, the same way as in general a 3 person house will pay 50% more for food than 2, it doesn't mean the 2 person is getting cheaper food.

If Scotlands households rise to that of England and the price stays the same then that would be a bargain. If we paid the same is England we'd be furious as we use less

You also have to factor in the fact that our water company actually does the job we pay it to do. England are paying more a far inferior service.


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[Stairway 2 7]

You also have to factor in the fact that our water company actually does the job we pay it to do. England are paying more a far inferior service.


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England's water companies are atrocious so they should definitely be unhappy that they are paying the same as us per head. That's what privatisation brings

[Stairway 2 7]

Could go in here or tories thread

For those that say where does the money come from to give doctors above inflation raises, canzak countries will find it if we don't.

Head of Canadas medical association saying they will make it easier to poach our doctors.

Dr. Alika Lafontaine MD
@AlikaMD
Supply and demand continue to be macroeconomic facts that operate in parallel to inflation and taxes.

We’d love to welcome NHS docs to #Canada so we can increase our supply and meet patient demand.

@CMA_Docs
is working hard to make it easier for colleagues worldwide to join us!

You are valued worldwide. 🙏🏼❤️

@TheBMA

[Ozyhibby]

Could go in here or tories thread

For those that say where does the money come from to give doctors above inflation raises, canzak countries will find it if we don't.

Head of Canadas medical association saying they will make it easier to poach our doctors.

Dr. Alika Lafontaine MD
@AlikaMD
Supply and demand continue to be macroeconomic facts that operate in parallel to inflation and taxes.

We’d love to welcome NHS docs to #Canada so we can increase our supply and meet patient demand.

@CMA_Docs
is working hard to make it easier for colleagues worldwide to join us!

You are valued worldwide. [emoji1374][emoji3590]

@TheBMA

That’s what is mad about the UK govt policy here. They are only looking at it from a cost basis and not from the point of view of workforce planning. There is no thought to increasing the numbers of people needed to to supply the demand.


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[greenginger]

England's water companies are atrocious so they should definitely be unhappy that they are paying the same as us per head. That's what privatisation brings


As as far as I can see the average household charge for water and drainage is £ 448 in England.

In Scotland

https://www.scottishwater.co.uk/About-Us/News-and-Views/2022/02/030222-Charges-Announcement


only bands A B and C are less than this.

[JeMeSouviens]

As as far as I can see the average household charge for water and drainage is £ 448 in England.

In Scotland

https://www.scottishwater.co.uk/About-Us/News-and-Views/2022/02/030222-Charges-Announcement


only bands A B and C are less than this.

CT bands A/B/C is 57% of households between them. (source - https://www.gov.scot/publications/council-tax-datasets/)

[Stairway 2 7]

The record says £448 England £410 Scotland is the average per household

[Jack]

The record says £448 England £410 Scotland is the average per household

The Record said we battered the sevco team to within an inch of their lives!

[Stairway 2 7]

The Record said we battered the sevco team to within an inch of their lives!

They are using house of commons figures and being pro SNP

[Jack]

They are using house of commons figures and being pro SNP

I'd still check.

[greenginger]

I'd still check.

I did a rough check and get £466 average bill in Scotland.

will check again later. Off for a game of golf

[Moulin Yarns]

I did a rough check and get £466 average bill in Scotland.

will check again later. Off for a game of golf

I'm about £200

[greenginger]

I'm about £200

£200 eh, sounds like a Scottish Government figure. But it’s on the SNP Lying B’s thread so it’s in the right place. :greengrin

Checked my sums again and the average Scots household water bill is £466 which is higher than the English av . of £448.

Not much difference , but just confirms you can’t trust anything in the Daily Record.

[Ozyhibby]

£200 eh, sounds like a Scottish Government figure. But it’s on the SNP Lying B’s thread so it’s in the right place. :greengrin

Checked my sums again and the average Scots household water bill is £466 which is higher than the English av . of £448.

Not much difference , but just confirms you can’t trust anything in the Daily Record.

Of course Scottish Water actually does the job it’s paid to do, where as in England they just pump all the sewage out untreated.


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[archie]

Of course Scottish Water actually does the job it’s paid to do, where as in England they just pump all the sewage out untreated.


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Posted without comment https://theferret.scot/claim-sewage-overflows-not-issue-scotland-false/

[Ozyhibby]

Posted without comment https://theferret.scot/claim-sewage-overflows-not-issue-scotland-false/

If there was evidence we have a problem like England does I’m sure the media in Scotland would be all over it. We don’t, so they haven’t. There was an attempt a few months back but the facts got in the way.


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[archie]

If there was evidence we have a problem like England does I’m sure the media in Scotland would be all over it. We don’t, so they haven’t. There was an attempt a few months back but the facts got in the way.


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Have you read the article?

[Moulin Yarns]

£200 eh, sounds like a Scottish Government figure. But it’s on the SNP Lying B’s thread so it’s in the right place. :greengrin

Checked my sums again and the average Scots household water bill is £466 which is higher than the English av . of £448.

Not much difference , but just confirms you can’t trust anything in the Daily Record.

How did you calculate? Did you take into account the number of houses in each tax band and the number of rural houses with private water supply and who pay no water rate? My low rate is because I have no connection to a sewer.

[Jones28]

Posted without comment https://theferret.scot/claim-sewage-overflows-not-issue-scotland-false/


It's a good article, pointing out we don't monitor anything like as many outflows as England do.

But I still haven't seen any of the pictures we have seen from English coastlines of sewage in the water, nor read or heard testimony from people at Scottish beaches about the conditions of the water.

[archie]

It's a good article, pointing out we don't monitor anything like as many outflows as England do.

But I still haven't seen any of the pictures we have seen from English coastlines of sewage in the water, nor read or heard testimony from people at Scottish beaches about the conditions of the water.

I think you are probably right and none of this get the privatised water companies off the hook. Here's a campaign group's take https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/23532003.scotland-shockingly-behind-england-monitoring-sewage-releases/

[Ozyhibby]

It's a good article, pointing out we don't monitor anything like as many outflows as England do.

But I still haven't seen any of the pictures we have seen from English coastlines of sewage in the water, nor read or heard testimony from people at Scottish beaches about the conditions of the water.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-59898988#

If the BBC could have found fault they would have.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230718/1b3e367d478b4eb00fd257a7eeb037b3.png


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[Jack]

Private water companies in England (and Wales?) were £54bn to £65bn in debt depending on which website you read.

Private water companies in England (and Wales?) paid £57bn in dividends since 1991 according to the Guardian.


It's a good thing Scotland never went down that road ... unless you were likely to become a shareholder!

[greenginger]

How did you calculate? Did you take into account the number of houses in each tax band and the number of rural houses with private water supply and who pay no water rate? My low rate is because I have no connection to a sewer.

Scottish Water and Scottish Gov figures don’t seem to tally.

Scottish Water say there is a total of 2,653,000 households yet the total of The A - H rate bands is 2,562,357.

Are there of 100,000 homes with no Council tax rating :confused:

[Moulin Yarns]

“Scottish Water is responsible for setting water charge levels in Scotland and we welcome their decision to set next year’s charges well below inflation – at 5%. This is an average rise of 37p per week.

“In 2023-24, the average charge in Scotland is expected to be £411, compared to £448 in England and Wales. On average, our water charges remain lower than in other parts of the UK."

[lapsedhibee]

Scottish Water and Scottish Gov figures don’t seem to tally.

Scottish Water say there is a total of 2,653,000 households yet the total of The A - H rate bands is 2,562,357.

Are there of 100,000 homes with no Council tax rating :confused:

Or a 6 and 5 transposed in one of those quoted figures? :dunno:

[Keith_M]

Is this the correct thread for things related to Ferries? :greengrin


Shetland pushes for £400m toll tunnels to replace ageing ferry fleet (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/23306351.shetland-pushes-400m-toll-tunnels-replace-ageing-ferry-fleet/)

TBH, I think it sounds like a decent idea.



Maybe they could discuss this with Boris Johnson, as I believe he had some interesting tunnel plans for links to NI/RoI, and this would be a dawdle in comparison.

[Ozyhibby]

Is this the correct thread for things related to Ferries? :greengrin


Shetland pushes for £400m toll tunnels to replace ageing ferry fleet (https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/23306351.shetland-pushes-400m-toll-tunnels-replace-ageing-ferry-fleet/)

TBH, I think it sounds like a decent idea.



Maybe they could discuss this with Boris Johnson, as I believe he had some interesting tunnel plans for links to NI/RoI, and this would be a dawdle in comparison.

I think it’s an excellent idea.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://youtu.be/Tfv_pMyCa14

Flynn excellent again this morning.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/radioclydenews/status/1681327387823284227?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Yousaf on Labour’s two child policy.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/stvnews/status/1681342194299420676?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Hope Yousaf goes for it. These events are a positive for the country.


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[He's here!]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/philippa-whitford-resigns-eighth-snp-mp-will-quit-at-next-election-37xrwjlqn

[grunt]

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/philippa-whitford-resigns-eighth-snp-mp-will-quit-at-next-election-37xrwjlqn
Fergus Ewing. :faf:

[JeMeSouviens]

Fergus Ewing. :faf:

To be fair to Fergus, he does have a point about the a9. It was promised, needs done and has ground to a halt.

Otoh, if that's the depth of the "split", John Boothman, former head of unbiased impartial news at BBC Scotland, may be clutching at straws just a little. :wink:

[grunt]

BBC Scotland takes the opportunity to resurrect the photos of the tent on Sturgeon's lawn

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66244202

[Ozyhibby]

To be fair to Fergus, he does have a point about the a9. It was promised, needs done and has ground to a halt.

Otoh, if that's the depth of the "split", John Boothman, former head of unbiased impartial news at BBC Scotland, may be clutching at straws just a little. :wink:

There is a lot of infrastructure spending needed and Ewing is correct to point it out. Possibly needs to throw less tantrums though.


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[Just Alf]

To be fair to Fergus, he does have a point about the a9. It was promised, needs done and has ground to a halt.

Otoh, if that's the depth of the "split", John Boothman, former head of unbiased impartial news at BBC Scotland, may be clutching at straws just a little. :wink:The A9 totally needs sorted, guessing it's a political decision because funds are needed elsewhere?
Mitigation of 2 child benefit cap, public sector pay rises etc?

[Stairway 2 7]

We should have used the £10 billion extra we got from Hs2 barnett payment on infrastructure. I believe in big infrastructure projects to boost the economy. Another problem with having greens in power I suspect though

[Stairway 2 7]

Scot gov on track for its climate targets

https://twitter.com/FerretScot/status/1681559538284081152

[Glory Lurker]

We should have used the £10 billion extra we got from Hs2 barnett payment on infrastructure. I believe in big infrastructure projects to boost the economy. Another problem with having greens in power I suspect though

Could you link to us getting 10 bill, and how it was spent?

[Stairway 2 7]

Could you link to us getting 10 bill, and how it was spent?

Not sure what you mean by what it was spent on, it goes into our budget to be spent on whatever is in our budget. Barnett consequentials mean we get 9% of English spending on projects like this. Its been on here a number of times on here

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18234437.campaigners-call-scotlands-hs2-windfall-used-revamp-rail-services/

Scotland got £500 million due to crossrail, here's the standard crying about it. I love England doing big infrastructure projects, particularly if they over rub massively as more for us

https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/scotland-given-ps500m-sop-for-crossrail-6616253.html

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Not sure what you mean by what it was spent on, it goes into our budget to be spent on whatever is in our budget. Barnett consequentials mean we get 9% of English spending on projects like this. Its been on here a number of times on here

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/18234437.campaigners-call-scotlands-hs2-windfall-used-revamp-rail-services/

Scotland got £500 million due to crossrail, here's the standard crying about it. I love England doing big infrastructure projects, particularly if they over rub massively as more for us

https://www.standard.co.uk/hp/front/scotland-given-ps500m-sop-for-crossrail-6616253.html

Not quite that simple. When the UK Government borrows 10's or 100's of billions of pounds for infrastructure projects in England, that get's lumped onto the UK national debt figure in which Scotland is proportioned a share of the debt liability. So it's not as if we're being given free money here. It's more like being forced to take a loan on behalf of the UK Government.

[Ozyhibby]

Not quite that simple. When the UK Government borrows 10's or 100's of billions of pounds for infrastructure projects in England, that get's lumped onto the UK national debt figure in which Scotland is proportioned a share of the debt liability. So it's not as if we're being given free money here. It's more like being forced to take a loan on behalf of the UK Government.

And it will be over the next 50 years or so. They won’t have spent £110 billion yet.


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[degenerated]

Not quite that simple. When the UK Government borrows 10's or 100's of billions of pounds for infrastructure projects in England, that get's lumped onto the UK national debt figure in which Scotland is proportioned a share of the debt liability. So it's not as if we're being given free money here. It's more like being forced to take a loan on behalf of the UK Government.Even more complicated as the figures quoted were "up to" £10 billion rather than anything more specific. Not sure when these consequentials are actually realised either.

[Stairway 2 7]

Even more complicated as the figures quoted were "up to" £10 billion rather than anything more specific. Not sure when these consequentials are actually realised either.

It was over 5 years according to gov website from 2020 and we get 9% of whatever they spend. We got £1.2 billionof it in 2016 but i can't see from 16 to 20. And yes it's a share of debt but we can't moan about getting a share of debt then complain we can't take on our own debt. Uk gov are taking it on anyway and I'm glad they do. One because big infrastructure projects are great for the economy and two we can spend it how we wish, with better management and less swindling.

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/scotlands-alcohol-minimum-unit-pricing-could-rise-by-60-under-government-proposals

Minimum price to go up.


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[TrumpIsAPeado]

It was over 5 years according to gov website from 2020 and we get 9% of whatever they spend. And yes it's a share of debt but we can't moan about getting a share of debt then complain we can't take on our own debt. Uk gov are taking it on anyway and I'm glad they do. One because big infrastructure projects are great for the economy and two we can spend it how we wish, with better management and less swindling.

Taking on our own debt isn't the same as having debt taken out on our behalf whether we like it or not. The UK Government may be taking the debt on, but we're very much anchored to it. Even if we were to reject the Barnett Consequential's, send the money back to the UK Treasury and tell them to put it towards reducing the national debt figure instead, they wouldn't. It would just get spent in England and Scotland would still be tied to the share of debt.

[Stairway 2 7]

The fact it we voted remain and the polls still say we thinking the same. With that we have a part of uk debt. If it wasn't for barnett we would get nothing for projects in the UK. Thankfully when they do spend we get to spend 9% of that on whatever we want. We had the chance to change that then blew it.

In the meantime we got an extra 10 bil to spend however we wish. Surely any government would say great we can make that money work for us

[TrumpIsAPeado]

The fact it we voted remain and the polls still say we thinking the same. With that we have a part of uk debt. If it wasn't for barnett we would get nothing for projects in the UK. Thankfully when they do spend we get to spend 9% of that on whatever we want. We had the chance to change that then blew it.

In the meantime we got an extra 10 bil to spend however we wish. Surely any government would say great we can make that money work for us

Would be interesting to see how much of our forced loan goes towards mitigating damaging policies from London every year. You're right though. We well and truly blew it.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/scotlands-alcohol-minimum-unit-pricing-could-rise-by-60-under-government-proposals

Minimum price to go up.


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Despite the cringey spin it didn't decrease deaths, look at northern Ireland without it going down whilst ours went up to a new record. It also didn't decrease drinking in problem drinkers.

It'll disproportionately effect the working class who are toiling. £10 for a pack of 6 beers, £7 for a bottle of wine won't affect the toffs. Youth drinking has steadily been decreasing for 20 years I'd bide our time. We drink less than the European average as is. Getting a tackle on drug deaths which are the worst in Europe should be the priority

[Stairway 2 7]

Would be interesting to see how much of our forced loan goes towards mitigating damaging policies from London every year. You're right though. We well and truly blew it.

We did but demographics say we will be independent eventually

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Getting a tackle on drug deaths which are the worst in Europe should be the priority

Great..... just awaiting the powers to actually be able to do that. Or is that better off in Westminster's hands as well?

[TrumpIsAPeado]

We did but demographics say we will be independent eventually

The tory/labour duopoly said NO to more referendums. And that's the end of it.

[Stairway 2 7]

Great..... just awaiting the powers to actually be able to do that. Or is that better off in Westminster's hands as well?

The vast majority of our drugs deaths are from legal drugs methadone and diazepam in particular. Legalisation won't effect this. Cuts in drug support a bigger factor

[TrumpIsAPeado]

The vast majority of our drugs deaths are from legal drugs methadone and diazepam in particular. Legalisation won't effect this. Cuts in drug support a bigger factor

The vast majority of drug deaths come from illegally sourced substances that are heavily cut with other substances. Legalisation and regulation will at the very least, give drug users access to pharmaceutical grade drugs as opposed to badly cut drugs off the black market. This will greatly reduce the number of drug related deaths. It will also be taxable, allowing the Government to raise money for better drug care services.

But Westminster says NO. Drug deaths are a handy beating stick.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/barge-australia-asylum-contract-travel-b2354578.html

Wow, that’s even more expensive than our two late ferries. UK govt puts us in the shade when it comes to wasting money.


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[Stairway 2 7]

The vast majority of drug deaths come from illegally sourced substances that are heavily cut with other substances. Legalisation and regulation will at the very least, give drug users access to pharmaceutical grade drugs as opposed to badly cut drugs off the black market. This will greatly reduce the number of drug related deaths. It will also be taxable, allowing the Government to raise money for better drug care services.

But Westminster says NO. Drug deaths are a handy beating stick.

60% involved legitimately given methadone. Benzos are class c and there were no convictions for possession last year. I'm 100% for decriminalisation, but the deaths will only stop with support.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

60% involved legitimately given methadone. Benzos are class c and there were no convictions for possession last year. I'm 100% for decriminalisation, but the deaths will only stop with support.

Those deaths may have involved people being given Methadone. But it doesn't mean that the Methadone was the reasoning behind their deaths. Convicting people of possessing Benzodiazepines probably isn't a very good idea. The drug has a high rate of dependency and abruptly stopping the use of them can have significant consequences such as psychosis, seizures and death. It can take a long term user years to taper off them safely and if they're convicted and put into a situation where they can no longer access them, it potentially puts their life at risk.

[Jones28]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/scotlands-alcohol-minimum-unit-pricing-could-rise-by-60-under-government-proposals

Minimum price to go up.


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Aw get tae ****, really?

[ErinGoBraghHFC]

Aw get tae ****, really?

Likely make no difference, a bottle of buckfast didn’t change price when minimum pricing came in for example because it was already priced above the 50p minimum per unit. Only things this will affect will be things like White Lightning and Frosty Jacks cider probably, which I’d imagine are very very few non-problem drinker adults tipple of choice


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[TrumpIsAPeado]

Aw get tae ****, really?

They're looking at all options. Even the possibility of reducing the minimum unit price. STV picked the worst article title they could.

[He's here!]

BBC Scotland takes the opportunity to resurrect the photos of the tent on Sturgeon's lawn

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-66244202

Or simply reporting the latest update from Police Scotland like the rest of Scotland's media.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Or simply reporting the latest update from Police Scotland like the rest of Scotland's media.

So any news on the dead body they dug up?

[Since90+2]

They're looking at all options. Even the possibility of reducing the minimum unit price. STV picked the worst article title they could.

They are not looking to potentially reduce the minimum unit cost. Its a tick box exercise to say they explored all options.

Anyone with any handle on how the current Holyrood government act knows there is a absolutely no chance at all it will be reduced, literally no chance.

[Ozyhibby]

They are not looking to potentially reduce the minimum unit cost. Its a tick box exercise to say they explored all options.

Anyone with any handle on how the current Holyrood government act knows there is a absolutely no chance at all it will be reduced, literally no chance.

Of course it won’t be reduced. It’s too low as it is. It’s def going up.


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[Just Alf]

They are not looking to potentially reduce the minimum unit cost. Its a tick box exercise to say they explored all options.

Anyone with any handle on how the current Holyrood government act knows there is a absolutely no chance at all it will be reduced, literally no chance.Deep down I think it will be bumped up by the equivalent of inflation since it was first introduced.

From what I've read it's been effective (ish) on reducing the numbers of new heavy drinkers... but little effect on existing heavy drinkers/alcoholics, I guess they need a different type of intervention?

[Glory Lurker]

The fact it we voted remain and the polls still say we thinking the same. With that we have a part of uk debt. If it wasn't for barnett we would get nothing for projects in the UK. Thankfully when they do spend we get to spend 9% of that on whatever we want. We had the chance to change that then blew it.

In the meantime we got an extra 10 bil to spend however we wish. Surely any government would say great we can make that money work for us

We voted "no".

[Stairway 2 7]

If you looked at purely the stats it's hasn't made any difference. Drink deaths are up to record levels, consumption is steady. Youth drinking has actually dropped continuously since 2003, so that will do the work for us. The amount of problem drinkers hasn't changed.

It's a tax that will effect the working class more. I think Scots have been scared to think we are the worst and biggest drinkers. We drink and die less due to drink than the EU average and less than in countries like France, Germany, Portugal and Denmark. £10 for 6 cans is ridiculous

[Stairway 2 7]

We voted "no".

I'd wager most knew I was meaning to remain in UK

[grunt]

Or simply reporting the latest update from Police Scotland like the rest of Scotland's media.
It wasn't an update from Police Scotland, it was down to an interview with Police Scotland chief on BBC Radio 4. He was asked if the tents were necessary and of course he supported his force, what else would you expect? Quite why he was commenting on a live investigation is not something I can answer.

[grunt]

If you looked at purely the stats it's hasn't made any difference.
Yeah, what do those idiots at Public Health Scotland and the BMJ know, eh? Fools, every one of them, and certainly no match for Hibs.net's own S27.

[Stairway 2 7]

Yeah, what do those idiots at Public Health Scotland and the BMJ know, eh? Fools, every one of them, and certainly no match for Hibs.net's own S27.

A government funded body campaigning for this for decades finds what is asked to find. Doctors groups were attacking the snp last week for stopping mask wearing. They will always go pro mitigation they don't care about finance's ect.

Your bright but be objective here. There headline findings was although deaths went up in Scotland to a record level, it went up slower than in England. They say therfore it saved lives so we should continue it.

They didn't say over the 30 years we've recorded deaths due to alcohol before minimum pricing, Scotland and England have went up and down with no mitigations.

Why did they choose England and just for one year. What if they chose to compare us with Northern Ireland. So in the last year Scotlands deaths have risen to a new record. In Northern Ireland they have dropped for a second year in a row, Northern Ireland has no minimum pricing. If I said I compared the two countries and concluded minimum pricing has caused deaths you'd say your a nitwit correctly.

A thread on it that is stating the obvious. They conducted 4 studies into its success. 3 showed no difference (well one showed problem drinkers were spending less on food but still drinking) and one was comparing us to England for one year

https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1673599530929881089

[degenerated]

A government funded body campaigning for this for decades finds what is asked to find. Doctors groups were attacking the snp last week for stopping mask wearing. They will always go pro mitigation they don't care about finance's ect.

Your bright but be objective here. There headline findings was although deaths went up in Scotland to a record level, it went up slower than in England. They say therfore it saved lives so we should continue it.

They didn't say over the 30 years we've recorded deaths due to alcohol before minimum pricing, Scotland and England have went up and down with no mitigations.

Why did they choose England and just for one year. What if they chose to compare us with Northern Ireland. So in the last year Scotlands deaths have risen to a new record. In Northern Ireland they have dropped for a second year in a row, Northern Ireland has no minimum pricing. If I said I compared the two countries and concluded minimum pricing has caused deaths you'd say your a nitwit correctly.

A thread on it that is stating the obvious. They conducted 4 studies into its success. 3 showed no difference (well one showed problem drinkers were spending less on food but still drinking) and one was comparing us to England for one year

https://twitter.com/cjsnowdon/status/1673599530929881089A thread on public health by a guy who wrote for the telegraph, the spectator and conservative home and who is an outspoken opponent of government intervention in public health matters around tobacco and alcohol. [emoji848]

27020

[grunt]

Doctors groups were attacking the snp last week for stopping mask wearing.
You should be aware this little stunt was borne out of a Facebook group with very few members. They attacked the SG - aided and abetted by a willing and compliant BBC Scotland - in order to generate an SNPbad story. Heck, two of the doctors were from England, complaining about NHS Scotland? A made up story. It's beneath you to even give them airtime.

[Stairway 2 7]

A thread on public health by a guy who wrote for the telegraph, the spectator and conservative home and who is an outspoken opponent of government intervention in public health matters around tobacco and alcohol. [emoji848]

27020


So tell me what is wrong with any of what he has said. Its just daft using one year of Scotland v England to say they both rose but England's rise faster so the difference must be mup, don't look at northern Ireland. The rise and falls now won't be from minimum pricing if if does save lives it will be decades from now as alchahol deaths are due to a lifetime of drinking

What about biostatistician Dr Adam Jacobs, Senior Director, Biostatistical Sciences at Premier Research, said:

“The paper claims to have found a statistically significant decrease in deaths that are due to drinking alcohol – a decrease of 13.4%. I have two problems with that number. First, there may be some uncertainty in attributing which deaths were ‘wholly attributable’ to alcohol consumption, and the paper would be more convincing to me if they presented statistics on all-cause mortality.

“Second, figure 1 in the paper appears to show the trend for mortality increasing since the MUP was implemented. There may be reasons why despite this there is statistically a decrease in deaths due to alcohol, but I would find it more convincing if you could see the death rate actually decreasing in the raw data..

Or Professor Kevin McConway
my main concern is that there is a lot of causal interpretation here.
This is an observational study, and no matter how well other factors are controlled for, it can never prove conclusively that the changes observed in deaths were due to the minimum unit pricing policy. In my view there hasn’t been enough caution given around assuming this relationship is causal
Second, figure 1 in the paper appears to show the trend for mortality increasing since the MUP was implemented. There may be reasons why despite this there is statistically a decrease in deaths due to alcohol, but I would find it more convincing if you could see the death rate actually decreasing in the raw data
I also think there are some questions to ask around what would be expected to happen in terms of a time lag between the policy being brought in and deaths being averted – would we expect large numbers of deaths to have been prevented already given that many deaths due to alcohol are due to chronic conditions
However, all this just shows that there were decreases in deaths after the MUP policy was brought in – but that doesn’t necessarily imply that the decrease in deaths was caused by MUP

Or just yourself look at the fluctuations in the drink deaths between Scotland and England over the years
27021

Here's Scotlands rise since mup
27022

[Stairway 2 7]

You should be aware this little stunt was borne out of a Facebook group with very few members. They attacked the SG - aided and abetted by a willing and compliant BBC Scotland - in order to generate an SNPbad story. Heck, two of the doctors were from England, complaining about NHS Scotland? A made up story. It's beneath you to even give them airtime.

They aren't just a Facebook group They are legitimate doctors yes small and talking nonsense though. The BMA and BMJ also slammed scot gov when masks were first dropped.

The BMJ BMA thousands of doctors wrote to the government saying don't make the gap between first and second jabs 12 weeks when they first came out. The EU Pfizer and pretty much everyone on here slammed uk government for it. Turns out it saved 10k lives and 60k hospitalisations. The point is BMJ is full of opinions often saying the opposite

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.imperial.ac.uk/news/243032/delaying-second-doses-vaccine-reduced-covid-19/amp/

[Ozyhibby]

They aren't just a Facebook group They are legitimate doctors yes small and talking nonsense though. The BMA and BMJ also slammed scot gov when masks were first dropped.

The BMJ BMA thousands of doctors wrote to the government saying don't make the gap between first and second jabs 12 weeks when they first came out. The EU Pfizer and pretty much everyone on here slammed uk government for it. Turns out it saved 10k lives and 60k hospitalisations. The point is BMJ is full of opinions often saying the opposite

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.imperial.ac.uk/news/243032/delaying-second-doses-vaccine-reduced-covid-19/amp/

I think there were only 7 of them and two were based in England and another a former Labour candidate.


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[Stairway 2 7]

On the other side of the coin I also think this is ridiculous to say without proof. Minimum pricing helping the rise in deaths as people turn to street drugs. If Minimum pricing works its probably be a few decades to effect deaths as the Prof above says. The midnight clause means they need something though. It might work I don't know. But I don't think it's a priority. It also won't be popular so if humza says we need a consistent and clear lead in the polls for a second referendum, it makes me think getting one isn't a priority

https://archive.ph/6JWyh

[Jones28]

Likely make no difference, a bottle of buckfast didn’t change price when minimum pricing came in for example because it was already priced above the 50p minimum per unit. Only things this will affect will be things like White Lightning and Frosty Jacks cider probably, which I’d imagine are very very few non-problem drinker adults tipple of choice


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Yes thankfully none of them are my chosen tipples.


They're looking at all options. Even the possibility of reducing the minimum unit price. STV picked the worst article title they could.

It wouldn't be like the media to do that would it?

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-66264071

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-66264071

[emoji2369]


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[degenerated]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-glasgow-west-66264071BBC reporting ferries back on air27028

[Jones28]

BBC reporting ferries back on air27028

It's quite staggering isn't it?

I don't think the SNP are doing a particularly good job with education for example. Sturgeon even said to judge her on education. Instead ferries are the stick to hit the government with?

[He's here!]

It's quite staggering isn't it?

I don't think the SNP are doing a particularly good job with education for example. Sturgeon even said to judge her on education. Instead ferries are the stick to hit the government with?

Sturgeon's failure to close the attainment gap in education gets plenty deserved flak.

I'm unclear why yes voters get so riled by criticism of the SG's shambolic role in the ferries fiasco. Their much-lauded ferries plan, launched in 2012, has been one long catalogue of costly failure.

There seems to be a mindset that 'it's only a couple of boats' from those who have no need to use our island ferries, but the network is a vital lifeline not only to the islands' populations but for tourism. We're just back from a few days on Raasay (fantastic place to visit) and while the ferry trip is a short one, its absence would see the island's community-led summer programme of activity grind to a total halt.

This is well over a year old, so things have unravelled even more spectacularly since then, but it provides a good summary of the issues at stake:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61161932

[Ozyhibby]

Sturgeon's failure to close the attainment gap in education gets plenty deserved flak.

I'm unclear why yes voters get so riled by criticism of the SG's shambolic role in the ferries fiasco. Their much-lauded ferries plan, launched in 2012, has been one long catalogue of costly failure.

There seems to be a mindset that 'it's only a couple of boats' from those who have no need to use our island ferries, but the network is a vital lifeline not only to the islands' populations but for tourism. We're just back from a few days on Raasay (fantastic place to visit) and while the ferry trip is a short one, its absence would see the island's community-led summer programme of activity grind to a total halt.

This is well over a year old, so things have unravelled even more spectacularly since then, but it provides a good summary of the issues at stake:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61161932

Don’t 95% of Cal Mac ferries run on time?


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[grunt]

Don’t 95% of Cal Mac ferries run on time?
Irrelevant.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

There seems to be a mindset from people of a particular political persuasion to keep this story in the limelight for as long as possible, to squeeze as much outrage out of this as possible. Likely in the hope that it will distract people's attentions away from far more significant fiasco's south of the border that are costing us a great deal more than this ever will.

[Smartie]

Sturgeon's failure to close the attainment gap in education gets plenty deserved flak.

I'm unclear why yes voters get so riled by criticism of the SG's shambolic role in the ferries fiasco. Their much-lauded ferries plan, launched in 2012, has been one long catalogue of costly failure.

There seems to be a mindset that 'it's only a couple of boats' from those who have no need to use our island ferries, but the network is a vital lifeline not only to the islands' populations but for tourism. We're just back from a few days on Raasay (fantastic place to visit) and while the ferry trip is a short one, its absence would see the island's community-led summer programme of activity grind to a total halt.

This is well over a year old, so things have unravelled even more spectacularly since then, but it provides a good summary of the issues at stake:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61161932

The fact that she painted a target onto her own back re education means that none of us who support(ed) Sturgeon or the SNP would really have a problem if this was the main attack on her as it is more than fair game.

There's always going to be a bit of sniping when it comes to politics and you accept that opponents will take an opportunity have a pop where possible. Occasionally mistakes will be made and occasionally public resource fiascos will arise. It just feels like the "ferries card" gets overplayed a bit, especially when you consider some of the eyewatering waste of public resource that is happening at Westminster. Whataboutery I know, but it's not an argument without merit because perspective can be important.

It's so long since Labour have had responsibility for anything that they should have no shortage of targets for attack without fear of reproach. The continued choice of "the ferries" as being the one in Scotland I think rankles because it gives a distinct feeling about who Scottish Labour feel their true opponents are, at a time when they're supposedly winning us back over in droves.

[He's here!]

There seems to be a mindset from people of a particular political persuasion to keep this story in the limelight for as long as possible, to squeeze as much outrage out of this as possible. Likely in the hope that it will distract people's attentions away from far more significant fiasco's south of the border that are costing us a great deal more than this ever will.

Why would BBC Scotland focus on costly fiascos south of the border ahead of those on their doorstep? The reason the ferries shambles remains 'in the limelight' is because it's a story which continues to develop, with new levels of ineptitude regularly unveiled. Why should that not be reported?

The standard eye-rolling or laughing emoji response to these stories (or to those criticising the glacial-paced A9 duelling) don't exactly constitute a valid defence of the SG's incompetence.

[He's here!]

Don’t 95% of Cal Mac ferries run on time?


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Uh huh, that's the issue at stake.

[Kato]

Why would BBC Scotland focus on costly fiascos south of the border ahead of those on their doorstep? The reason the ferries shambles remains 'in the limelight' is because it's a story which continues to develop, with new levels of ineptitude regularly unveiled. Why should that not be reported?

The standard eye-rolling or laughing emoji response to these stories (or to those criticising the glacial-paced A9 duelling) don't exactly constitute a valid defence of the SG's incompetence.If you really cared about people and fiscal prudence you'd be all over the Tory Party thread.

As it is though.

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[grunt]

Don’t 95% of Cal Mac ferries run on time?


Irrelevant.


Uh huh, that's the issue at stake.
Told you.

[grunt]

The reason the ferries shambles remains 'in the limelight' is because it's a story which continues to develop, with new levels of ineptitude regularly unveiled.
What new level of ineptitude does this latest story unveil?

[He's here!]

Told you.

You think the main issue is the day-to-day timetable?

[He's here!]

If you really cared about people and fiscal prudence you'd be all over the Tory Party thread.

As it is though.

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Or I could opt to call out the incompetence of those who claim they could do a good job of governing an independent Scotland.

Being told what I should think or do is, along with the stock 'what about the Tories' riposte, on a par with the laughing emoji counter argument.

[Kato]

Or I could opt to call out the incompetence of those who claim they could do a good job of governing an independent Scotland.

Being told what I should think or do is, along with the stock 'what about the Tories' riposte, on a par with the laughing emoji counter argument.The imbalance you show is palpable though. There are SNP sympathisers on here who criticise the Scottish Govt and the UK govt.

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[grunt]

You think the main issue is the day-to-day timetable?
:faf:

[Moulin Yarns]

Or I could opt to call out the incompetence of those who claim they could do a good job of governing an independent Scotland.

Being told what I should think or do is, along with the stock 'what about the Tories' riposte, on a par with the laughing emoji counter argument.

Ah the suggestion that the SNP are the only party that can govern in an independent Scotland again.

The same SNP that is only there to achieve independence, what will they do once they have achieved their only reason for being?

[He's here!]

:faf:

?

[He's here!]

The imbalance you show is palpable though. There are SNP sympathisers on here who criticise the Scottish Govt and the UK govt.

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Not joining the anti-Tory pile-on thread invalidates an opinion on the anti-SNP thread?

[Ozyhibby]

Why would BBC Scotland focus on costly fiascos south of the border ahead of those on their doorstep?

So we have to stay in the union but ignore what goes on in London? Surely the Scottish media should concentrate on all aspects of Scottish political life? Surely as a unionist, that’s what you would want? Or is what goes on in London no concern of ours?


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[He's here!]

So we have to stay in the union but ignore what goes on in London? Surely the Scottish media should concentrate on all aspects of Scottish political life? Surely as a unionist, that’s what you would want? Or is what goes on in London no concern of ours?


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We have the BBC national news, coupled with bulletins from BBC Scotland, BBC Wales and BBC NI - as well as a vast range of regional BBC bulletins. It's hardly as though we're lacking in coverage of what goes on in London.

[grunt]

?


Being told what I should think or do is, along with the stock 'what about the Tories' riposte, on a par with the laughing emoji counter argument.Just trying to help.

[degenerated]

So we have to stay in the union but ignore what goes on in London? Surely the Scottish media should concentrate on all aspects of Scottish political life? Surely as a unionist, that’s what you would want? Or is what goes on in London no concern of ours?


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Schrodinger's subjugation :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

We have the BBC national news, coupled with bulletins from BBC Scotland, BBC Wales and BBC NI - as well as a vast range of regional BBC bulletins. It's hardly as though we're lacking in coverage of what goes on in London.

You don’t think there is a lack of scrutiny from the BBC of procurement debacles in London?
I guess we should just leave it up to the London folk to sort out for us?

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[He's here!]

You don’t think there is a lack of scrutiny from the BBC of procurement debacles in London?
I guess we should just leave it up to the London folk to sort out for us?

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Is there a lack of scrutiny of these projects? The Crossrail and HS2 projects, to name a couple, seem to have had plenty of coverage on the national news, while I imagine HS2 has had plenty of analysis on regional English broadcasts. Stories of projects closer to home (ie things that are more likely to affect the people who live in a particular are) are naturally of more interest tho. Why would BBC Scotland lead on a London/south of England story ahead of a Scottish story? I don't follow your reasoning.

[Ozyhibby]

Is there a lack of scrutiny of these projects? The Crossrail and HS2 projects, to name a couple, seem to have had plenty of coverage on the national news, while I imagine HS2 has had plenty of analysis on regional English broadcasts. Stories of projects closer to home (ie things that are more likely to affect the people who live in a particular are) are naturally of more interest tho. Why would BBC Scotland lead on a London/south of England story ahead of a Scottish story? I don't follow your reasoning.

Take these prison boats we have rented? These will cost Scottish taxpayers more than the ferries. And that’s just to rent them. Has there been the same level of scrutiny of them as there has of the ferries? Why should they only be of interest to people in England when we get billed for them as well? Is this nothing to do with us?


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[Jones28]

Sturgeon's failure to close the attainment gap in education gets plenty deserved flak.

I'm unclear why yes voters get so riled by criticism of the SG's shambolic role in the ferries fiasco. Their much-lauded ferries plan, launched in 2012, has been one long catalogue of costly failure.
There seems to be a mindset that 'it's only a couple of boats' from those who have no need to use our island ferries, but the network is a vital lifeline not only to the islands' populations but for tourism. We're just back from a few days on Raasay (fantastic place to visit) and while the ferry trip is a short one, its absence would see the island's community-led summer programme of activity grind to a total halt.

This is well over a year old, so things have unravelled even more spectacularly since then, but it provides a good summary of the issues at stake:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-61161932

I use Northlink and go to Shetland at least once a year so I am very much aware of how vital these are to Island communities thanks.

I dont think you'll find a single SNP voter who doesn't think this has been dreadfully handled. No one I think would dispute that. I think people find it funny because this is a thread about the SNP being lying *******s an all you fire back with is ferries. If they were as bad as they're made out to be I thought you'd have a bigger range of topics to comment on.

Does the fact the government have sent ferry contracts to Turkey not display that they know they made an arse of it?

[degenerated]

I use Northlink and go to Shetland at least once a year so I am very much aware of how vital these are to Island communities thanks.

I dont think you'll find a single SNP voter who doesn't think this has been dreadfully handled. No one I think would dispute that. I think people find it funny because this is a thread about the SNP being lying *******s an all you fire back with is ferries. If they were as bad as they're made out to be I thought you'd have a bigger range of topics to comment on.

Does the fact the government have sent ferry contracts to Turkey not display that they know they made an arse of it?

Didnt the unionist parties demand at Holyrood that Ferguson were awarded the Ferries contract ?

[He's here!]

I use Northlink and go to Shetland at least once a year so I am very much aware of how vital these are to Island communities thanks.

I dont think you'll find a single SNP voter who doesn't think this has been dreadfully handled. No one I think would dispute that. I think people find it funny because this is a thread about the SNP being lying *******s an all you fire back with is ferries. If they were as bad as they're made out to be I thought you'd have a bigger range of topics to comment on.

Does the fact the government have sent ferry contracts to Turkey not display that they know they made an arse of it?

There are plenty of other topics to pull the SNP up on but the standard deflective response tends to be that their hands are tied by Westminster. The reason the ferries fiasco is such fair game is that it is entirely the SG's f***-up to own, made all the more embarrassing by Sturgeon 'launching' one of the ships a number of years ago to great fanfare - only for it to be subsequently revealed that this great 'made in Scotland' project was so compromised it would have been cheaper to scrap it and start from scratch with a foreign supplier.

[Ozyhibby]

There are plenty of other topics to pull the SNP up on but the standard deflective response tends to be that their hands are tied by Westminster. The reason the ferries fiasco is such fair game is that it is entirely the SG's f***-up to own, made all the more embarrassing by Sturgeon 'launching' one of the ships a number of years ago to great fanfare - only for it to be subsequently revealed that this great 'made in Scotland' project was so compromised it would have been cheaper to scrap it and start from scratch with a foreign supplier.

Where as the unionists could have rented us some prison boats for ten times the price. I know where my money is safer.


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[He's here!]

Where as the unionists could have rented us some prison boats for ten times the price. I know where my money is safer.


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The 'why should we pay for English stuff' line has never struck me as an attractive argument for independence - particularly when we do rather nicely from the Barnett Formula. There are endless government initiatives which are affected by factors such as geography or population which we are all taxed for. If, say, Wick (rather than the sout-east of England) was the main entry point for migrant boats, or we required prison ships off Peterhead, our perception of what our taxes are spent on would be very different.

Are prison ships even going ahead? Either way it doesn't strike me as surprising that to establish them would cost a fortune. Perhaps not four times the original estimate (and rising) tho.

[Ozyhibby]

The 'why should we pay for English stuff' line has never struck me as an attractive argument for independence - particularly when we do rather nicely from the Barnett Formula. There are endless government initiatives which are affected by factors such as geography or population which we are all taxed for. If, say, Wick (rather than the sout-east of England) was the main entry point for migrant boats, or we required prison ships off Peterhead, our perception of what our taxes are spent on would be very different.

Are prison ships even going ahead? Either way it doesn't strike me as surprising that to establish them would cost a fortune. Perhaps not four times the original estimate (and rising) tho.

I’m not saying ‘why should we pay for English stuff’, I’m asking about the lack of focus on the waste of money by the BBC Scotland news.


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[TrumpIsAPeado]

Why would BBC Scotland focus on costly fiascos south of the border ahead of those on their doorstep?

Because they're costing us even more.

[Jones28]

There are plenty of other topics to pull the SNP up on but the standard deflective response tends to be that their hands are tied by Westminster. The reason the ferries fiasco is such fair game is that it is entirely the SG's f***-up to own, made all the more embarrassing by Sturgeon 'launching' one of the ships a number of years ago to great fanfare - only for it to be subsequently revealed that this great 'made in Scotland' project was so compromised it would have been cheaper to scrap it and start from scratch with a foreign supplier.

They’ve sent the next contract abroad, rather than heinously try to keep the project in Scotland and keep Scottish people in jobs.

How dare they.

[Rumble de Thump]

They're not just costing more. And they're not just costing a lot more. And they're not just unnecessary. But they are being introduced due to Tory policies causing the problem the Tories are claiming they will help solve. Everyone can see the underhand tactics the Tories have been using for 13 years. They line their pockets at the expense of everyone else. The question is why is there anyone who still pretends they don't know it? There are people on social media and forums, such as this, who just obsessively regurgitate their lies. But why?

[TrumpIsAPeado]

They're not just costing more. And they're not just costing a lot more. And they're not just unnecessary. But they are being introduced due to Tory policies causing the problem the Tories are claiming they will help solve. Everyone can see the underhand tactics the Tories have been using for 13 years. They line their pockets at the expense of everyone else. The question is why is there anyone who still pretends they don't know it? There are people on social media and forums, such as this, who just obsessively regurgitate their lies. But why?

Personal self interest. People who can afford to pay taxes who simply don't want to pay taxes. People who have either been born into wealth or have been fortunate enough to obtain it and view people who they see as being below them as simply not working/trying hard enough. They know the people they're voting for are beneath contempt, but they'll continue to vote for them anyway as long as it serves their own personal interests. Then there's those who think that if they suck up to the club long enough, they'll be awarded with exclusive membership to said club, despite being viewed as being very much below the people in that club by the people in that club.

[Glory Lurker]

So we have to stay in the union but ignore what goes on in London? Surely the Scottish media should concentrate on all aspects of Scottish political life? Surely as a unionist, that’s what you would want? Or is what goes on in London no concern of ours?


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Scottish 6 claxon! Can't have that - that's the slot older, more-likely-to-vote people watch. Spare them! Spare them! Launch a crap underfunded "BBC Scotland" channel and have a Scottish 6 at nine. Even I've chanced across it once.

See also BBC Bias thread.

[He's here!]

They’ve sent the next contract abroad, rather than heinously try to keep the project in Scotland and keep Scottish people in jobs.

How dare they.

We'd all love to see a thriving ship-building culture remain on the Clyde but the reality is that the one remaining yard was losing money hand over fist, went into administration twice in the last 10 years, and is now propped up by the SG. Sturgeon's go-to 'I'll not apologise for keeping jobs in Scotland' riposte to criticism would have carried some clout had the yard done a job on these ferries we could be proud of.

Instead, the scale of ineptitude across the board pretty much left them with no choice but to look abroad - with the ferries being built by Turkey reportedly right on schedule and on budget. It wouldn't be the greatest surprise to see them arrive before the Clyde-built ships are completed.

[archie]

We'd all love to see a thriving ship-building culture remain on the Clyde but the reality is that the one remaining yard was losing money hand over fist, went into administration twice in the last 10 years, and is now propped up by the SG. Sturgeon's go-to 'I'll not apologise for keeping jobs in Scotland' riposte to criticism would have carried some clout had the yard done a job on these ferries we could be proud of.

Instead, the scale of ineptitude across the board pretty much left them with no choice but to look abroad - with the ferries being built by Turkey reportedly right on schedule and on budget. It wouldn't be the greatest surprise to see them arrive before the Clyde-built ships are completed.

Not quite one remaining yard. https://www.baesystems.com/en/heritage/scotstoun--clydebank-

[Ozyhibby]

We'd all love to see a thriving ship-building culture remain on the Clyde but the reality is that the one remaining yard was losing money hand over fist, went into administration twice in the last 10 years, and is now propped up by the SG. Sturgeon's go-to 'I'll not apologise for keeping jobs in Scotland' riposte to criticism would have carried some clout had the yard done a job on these ferries we could be proud of.

Instead, the scale of ineptitude across the board pretty much left them with no choice but to look abroad - with the ferries being built by Turkey reportedly right on schedule and on budget. It wouldn't be the greatest surprise to see them arrive before the Clyde-built ships are completed.

That’s a choice though. Shipbuilding can still be done in wealthy countries. The Norwegians and Koreans prove that.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Not quite one remaining yard. https://www.baesystems.com/en/heritage/scotstoun--clydebank-

Bae is flourishing. Building a massive £150 million indoor hanger that should help it win quite a few contracts

[J-C]

Not joining the anti-Tory pile-on thread invalidates an opinion on the anti-SNP thread?


But surely the incompetence from probably the worst government in the past 50 years deserves some comments from yourself but no, lets pile on the SG as that's your main agenda, just a wee Tory groupie doing what he's told.

[J-C]

We'd all love to see a thriving ship-building culture remain on the Clyde but the reality is that the one remaining yard was losing money hand over fist, went into administration twice in the last 10 years, and is now propped up by the SG. Sturgeon's go-to 'I'll not apologise for keeping jobs in Scotland' riposte to criticism would have carried some clout had the yard done a job on these ferries we could be proud of.

Instead, the scale of ineptitude across the board pretty much left them with no choice but to look abroad - with the ferries being built by Turkey reportedly right on schedule and on budget. It wouldn't be the greatest surprise to see them arrive before the Clyde-built ships are completed.


Shipbuilding in Scotland and particularly the Clyde was decimated many many years ago when Thatcher decided to privatise every thing and we couldn't compete with cheaper options from abroad. Just look at the car industry down south, the steelworks, major production plants and factories, all gone abroad where it's cheaper, all this was done way before the SG was even a thing, started in the 70's and has continued to this day with the Tory Government and jobs for the boys attitude, billions wasted and spent.

[Kato]

Not joining the anti-Tory pile-on thread invalidates an opinion on the anti-SNP thread?Not saying that at all. Your perfectly entitled to criticise the Scottish govt and you do it very well with passion and an obvious heartfelt venom at times. However Scotland isn't an independent country and it would be hard to guess it isn't from the angle you choose to take.



The harm the Scottish govt have done to the country pales in the face of what the what UK Govt have managed to achieve. "We all have to get used to being poorer" isn't because of the SNP, it's directly because the Tories want the masses poorer and poorer and their sponsors richer and richer - neverendingly.

The Tory thread isn't a pile-on. That saying implies there some sort of injustice towards them when the reality is, it barely scratches the surface of their misdeeds. It feels strange that you passionately avoid it.

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[WeeRussell]

I see the regular trolling season starts a bit earlier than the Scottish premiership this year. How very draining.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230722/aeafe48f65ae1eee9ebab0c006231108.jpg

These bloody ferries again.[emoji23]


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[Jack]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230722/aeafe48f65ae1eee9ebab0c006231108.jpg

These bloody ferries again.[emoji23]


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We should have bought Graylings leftovers!

[He's here!]

Shipbuilding in Scotland and particularly the Clyde was decimated many many years ago when Thatcher decided to privatise every thing and we couldn't compete with cheaper options from abroad. Just look at the car industry down south, the steelworks, major production plants and factories, all gone abroad where it's cheaper, all this was done way before the SG was even a thing, started in the 70's and has continued to this day with the Tory Government and jobs for the boys attitude, billions wasted and spent.

The monumental mess the SG have made of building these ferries can hardly be blamed on Margaret Thatcher.

[He's here!]

Not saying that at all. Your perfectly entitled to criticise the Scottish govt and you do it very well with passion and an obvious heartfelt venom at times. However Scotland isn't an independent country and it would be hard to guess it isn't from the angle you choose to take.



The harm the Scottish govt have done to the country pales in the face of what the what UK Govt have managed to achieve. "We all have to get used to being poorer" isn't because of the SNP, it's directly because the Tories want the masses poorer and poorer and their sponsors richer and richer - neverendingly.

The Tory thread isn't a pile-on. That saying implies there some sort of injustice towards them when the reality is, it barely scratches the surface of their misdeeds. It feels strange that you passionately avoid it.

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I don't 'passionately' avoid it. I've made the occasional post on there but by and large I don't see what I can add to it other than agree that the UK government merits the bulk of the flak it attracts - as reflected by the clear swing towards Labour in the polls.

However, the broad make-up of regular posters on this forum (ie strongly pro-independence and therefore unreflective of the Scottish electorate as a whole) tends to mean anyone who doesn't support the break-up of the UK is automatically 'a Tory' and should defend the UK government. I've pointed out many times that politics needn't be the sole driver for wishing to remain part of the UK. It certainly isn't for me and the reason I've given my second vote in Holyrood elections to the Scottish Conservatives is (like many others) for tactical purposes - ie to thwart the one party whose raison d'etre is the break-up of something I prefer to be part of.

UK governments come and go and it looks very likely that this one will be swept away by Labour in the not too distant future. Interestingly, this seems to have seen a surge in popularity in the Labour thread on here, fuelled largely by SNP voters who fear an erosion in support for independence once the Tories are gone. It seems that hatred for the Tories only extends so far and that for some on here they'd rather continue to vent spleen on the Tory thread than vote them out of government.

[JimBHibees]

Why would BBC Scotland focus on costly fiascos south of the border ahead of those on their doorstep? The reason the ferries shambles remains 'in the limelight' is because it's a story which continues to develop, with new levels of ineptitude regularly unveiled. Why should that not be reported?

The standard eye-rolling or laughing emoji response to these stories (or to those criticising the glacial-paced A9 duelling) don't exactly constitute a valid defence of the SG's incompetence.

Because we are constantly told how better off we are being part of the wonderfully efficient union of equals

[grunt]

However, the broad make-up of regular posters on this forum (ie strongly pro-independence and therefore unreflective of the Scottish electorate as a whole) tends to mean anyone who doesn't support the break-up of the UK is automatically 'a Tory' and should defend the UK government.
Oh dear. Will no one think of the poor UK.


It seems that hatred for the Tories only extends so far and that for some on here they'd rather continue to vent spleen on the Tory thread than vote them out of government.:confused:

[JimBHibees]

I don't 'passionately' avoid it. I've made the occasional post on there but by and large I don't see what I can add to it other than agree that the UK government merits the bulk of the flak it attracts - as reflected by the clear swing towards Labour in the polls.

However, the broad make-up of regular posters on this forum (ie strongly pro-independence and therefore unreflective of the Scottish electorate as a whole) tends to mean anyone who doesn't support the break-up of the UK is automatically 'a Tory' and should defend the UK government. I've pointed out many times that politics needn't be the sole driver for wishing to remain part of the UK. It certainly isn't for me and the reason I've given my second vote in Holyrood elections to the Scottish Conservatives is (like many others) for tactical purposes - ie to thwart the one party whose raison d'etre is the break-up of something I prefer to be part of.

UK governments come and go and it looks very likely that this one will be swept away by Labour in the not too distant future. Interestingly, this seems to have seen a surge in popularity in the Labour thread on here, fuelled largely by SNP voters who fear an erosion in support for independence once the Tories are gone. It seems that hatred for the Tories only extends so far and that for some on here they'd rather continue to vent spleen on the Tory thread than vote them out of government.

Your complete lack of balance imo negates many of your relentless posts

[lapsedhibee]

It seems that hatred for the Tories only extends so far and that for some on here they'd rather continue to vent spleen on the Tory thread than vote them out of government.

Maaate.

[Ozyhibby]

Maaate.

He literally votes for them.[emoji23]


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[HNA12]

We have asked several times now for people to stick to debating the issues rather than having third party digs at other posters. If you can’t keep it respectful then be prepared to take some time out. This forum is going to be permanently closed if it keeps up, we are here to run a football forum, not deal with political bickering.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/scotnational/status/1683408428683898880?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Interesting development. I would imagine he’ll get 100 votes.


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[He's here!]

https://twitter.com/scotnational/status/1683408428683898880?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Interesting development. I would imagine he’ll get 100 votes.


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Humza Yousaf could face leadership challenge from SNP activist in row over independence plan - Daily Record (https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/humza-yousaf-could-face-leadership-30536972)

I had noticed that story is in most of the the papers today. News to me that any party member (ie non-MPs/MSPs) can mount a leadership bid. Is that the case with all political parties?

[Ozyhibby]

Humza Yousaf could face leadership challenge from SNP activist in row over independence plan - Daily Record (https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/humza-yousaf-could-face-leadership-30536972)

I had noticed that story is in most of the the papers today. News to me that any party member (ie non-MPs/MSPs) can mount a leadership bid. Is that the case with all political parties?

No idea of the rules. This could be good news for Yousaf. If he sees off a challenge, especially if he does it easily it will secure his position. Not without its dangers either though.


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[He's here!]

No idea of the rules. This could be good news for Yousaf. If he sees off a challenge, especially if he does it easily it will secure his position. Not without its dangers either though.


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There's no way that guy will actually stand surely? Seems more of a headline-seeking summer holiday story when not much is happening in Scottish politics.

[Keith_M]

There's no way that guy will actually stand surely? Seems more of a headline-seeking summer holiday story when not much is happening in Scottish politics.


Yeah, it does kind of look like a desperate attempt for attention either by him or, more likely, the media

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/gap-between-number-of-richest-and-poorest-students-at-university-reduces

Closing the attainment gap.[emoji122]


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[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/record-number-of-trainee-doctor-positions-filled-scottish-government-says


I blame the SNP.

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/record-number-of-trainee-doctor-positions-filled-scottish-government-says


I blame the SNP.

https://twitter.com/thesnp/status/1684169744860020736?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Same.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://news.sky.com/story/average-student-debt-three-times-higher-in-england-than-scotland-new-figures-show-12928032?dcmp=snt-sf-twitter

Another SNP success. If Sarwar ever becomes FM then this will be one of the first things to go.


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[He's here!]

SNP rebel brands party at Holyrood ‘toxic’ (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/snp-rebel-brands-party-at-holyrood-toxic/ar-AA1eot9V)

Valid points raised or irrelevant because he doesn't toe the party line?

[Jones28]

SNP rebel brands party at Holyrood ‘toxic’ (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/snp-rebel-brands-party-at-holyrood-toxic/ar-AA1eot9V)

Valid points raised or irrelevant because he doesn't toe the party line?

"a bit of a toxic atmosphere amongst the SNP group in Holyrood.”

Some sleekit headline writing there.

[Ozyhibby]

SNP rebel brands party at Holyrood ‘toxic’ (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/snp-rebel-brands-party-at-holyrood-toxic/ar-AA1eot9V)

Valid points raised or irrelevant because he doesn't toe the party line?

Some valid points raised but in such a manner that he has become irrelevant. He’s not trying to win people over to his ideas, he’s just slinging mud in a very juvenile fashion. He’s a bit like McNeil in that he believes he’s the only person who wants Indy and everyone else is wrong. And his way of showing that is to turf the toys out the pram regularly.
He’s going on about HPMA’s there but that policy has already been ditched. And is a deposit return scheme extremist? I hardly think so. It’s attention seeking nonsense. I think he’ll be happier when he leaves the party or loses the whip.


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[lapsedhibee]

"a bit of a toxic atmosphere amongst the SNP group in Holyrood.”

Some sleekit headline writing there.




He went on to claim that painting the Conservatives as “reprehensible” during Nicola Sturgeon’s time in Government was “not only wrong, but it’s a pretty duff political strategy”, urging the SNP to be a “broad kirk”.

What a strange thing to say. Does Ewing mean the SNP should be more Tory? :confused:

[grunt]

He went on to claim that painting the Conservatives as “reprehensible” during Nicola Sturgeon’s time in Government was “not only wrong, but it’s a pretty duff political strategy”, urging the SNP to be a “broad kirk”.

What a strange thing to say. Does Ewing mean the SNP should be more Tory? :confused:The Tories ARE reprehensible. :confused:

[Jones28]

He went on to claim that painting the Conservatives as “reprehensible” during Nicola Sturgeon’s time in Government was “not only wrong, but it’s a pretty duff political strategy”, urging the SNP to be a “broad kirk”.

What a strange thing to say. Does Ewing mean the SNP should be more Tory? :confused:

It is a bizarre comment to make, but I think its a clumsy commentary on identity politics.

I disagree with him though, they were and are reprehensible.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

He went on to claim that painting the Conservatives as “reprehensible” during Nicola Sturgeon’s time in Government was “not only wrong, but it’s a pretty duff political strategy”, urging the SNP to be a “broad kirk”.

What a strange thing to say. Does Ewing mean the SNP should be more Tory? :confused:

Well it's working for Labour. But then again, Scotland isn't the tory south, we have a social conscience. So I'm not sure who he's attempting to pander to here.

[silverhibee]

We have asked several times now for people to stick to debating the issues rather than having third party digs at other posters. If you can’t keep it respectful then be prepared to take some time out. This forum is going to be permanently closed if it keeps up, we are here to run a football forum, not deal with political bickering.

As CWG said, go back to PMs only.

[greenginger]

As CWG said, go back to PMs only.

I think some of the worst offenders might be PMs. :greengrin

[He's here!]

He went on to claim that painting the Conservatives as “reprehensible” during Nicola Sturgeon’s time in Government was “not only wrong, but it’s a pretty duff political strategy”, urging the SNP to be a “broad kirk”.

What a strange thing to say. Does Ewing mean the SNP should be more Tory? :confused:

I took it to mean that 'detesting Tories' (as Sturgeon would have it) was not really a policy. Yes, but look how much worse the Tories are tended to be her go-to response when criticised, as it often is on here when the SNP are under fire. You can't just keep deflecting from your own failings and now that the Tories finally look to be on the way out you can see the SNP flailing as a once reliable crutch is kicked from under them.

[Ozyhibby]

I took it to mean that 'detesting Tories' (as Sturgeon would have it) was not really a policy. Yes, but look how much worse the Tories are tended to be her go-to response when criticised, as it often is on here when the SNP are under fire. You can't just keep deflecting from your own failings and now that the Tories finally look to be on the way out you can see the SNP flailing as a once reliable crutch is kicked from under them.

Are the Tories on the way out? Starmer appears to be campaigning on who can deliver the Tory manifesto most competently.


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[TrumpIsAPeado]

I took it to mean that 'detesting Tories' (as Sturgeon would have it) was not really a policy. Yes, but look how much worse the Tories are tended to be her go-to response when criticised, as it often is on here when the SNP are under fire. You can't just keep deflecting from your own failings and now that the Tories finally look to be on the way out you can see the SNP flailing as a once reliable crutch is kicked from under them.

It would be a fair point if Scotland was an independent country, free from political and economic influence from a Government based in another country. But as it is, we're not. It's quite right for Holyrood (regardless of which party is in power there) to point out the failings of another Government that ultimately has influence over that country, particularly when those failures are comparably worse than the failures within the devolved administration, in which the influencing government in that other country attempts to attack them on.

[WeeRussell]

It would be a fair point if Scotland was an independent country, free from political and economic influence from a Government based in another country. But as it is, we're not. It's quite right for Holyrood (regardless of which party is in power there) to point out the failings of another Government that ultimately has influence over that country, particularly when those failures are comparably worse than the failures within the devolved administration, in which the influencing government in that other country attempts to attack them on.

And it wasn’t her “go-to response” in any case. That’s just nonsense. Expected and obsessive nonsense, but still nonsense.

[Hibrandenburg]

I took it to mean that 'detesting Tories' (as Sturgeon would have it) was not really a policy. Yes, but look how much worse the Tories are tended to be her go-to response when criticised, as it often is on here when the SNP are under fire. You can't just keep deflecting from your own failings and now that the Tories finally look to be on the way out you can see the SNP flailing as a once reliable crutch is kicked from under them.

You see it as deflection, I see it as putting things in perspective by comparing one government to another. I've seen nothing coming out of Westminster that will serve Scotland's interests more than the Holyrood government does, but ferries eh.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/danielgoyal/status/1685571656356368384?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Good thread on some of the differences happening now between the Scottish and English health services.


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[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-66359417

Slater has a lot to answer for.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-66359417

Slater has a lot to answer for.

Yes, that’s what’s holding Scotland back just now.[emoji849][emoji23]


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[Jones28]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-66359417

Slater has a lot to answer for.

Westminster moving the goalposts has nothing to do with it though eh?

[Just Alf]

Westminster moving the goalposts has nothing to do with it though eh?Especially as the Scottish scheme was following what was set out in UK Gov's White paper right at the start.
Not going into it again but it was all originally agreed with England having an opt out for glass if it wanted.

It's funny how right at the last minute with Scotland about to introduce a deposit scheme, Wales well down the road towards it, even Northern Ireland were making progress, however Westminster/England are hardly out the starting blocks.... this was supposed to be part of their 'Day Job' that everyone goes on about, I wonder what they were up to instead?

[Kato]

Especially as the Scottish scheme was following what was set out in UK Gov's White paper right at the start.
Not going into it again but it was all originally agreed with England having an opt out for glass if it wanted.

It's funny how right at the last minute with Scotland about to introduce a deposit scheme, Wales well down the road towards it, even Northern Ireland were making progress, however Westminster/England are hardly out the starting blocks.... this was supposed to be part of their 'Day Job' that everyone goes on about, I wonder what they were up to instead?Same with abandoned HS2 projects, their piddling attempt at "levelling up" and possibly net zero if they have their chance. Huge financial outlays by the component institutions involved then let down by central govt who point the finger elsewhere. The biggest news is people fall for it, then again- that's normal.

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[Since90+2]

Jesus. Liabilities of 86 million, that's incredible.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Jesus. Liabilities of 86 million, that's incredible.

Always came across as quite a frugal bloke in RE! 😁

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/cost-of-rural-crime-in-scotland-falls-by-50-while-rest-of-uk-rises-nfu-mutual-report-shows

Disgraceful from the SNP. [emoji35]


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[greenginger]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/cost-of-rural-crime-in-scotland-falls-by-50-while-rest-of-uk-rises-nfu-mutual-report-shows

Disgraceful from the SNP. [emoji35]


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Everything worth nicking has already been nicked :greengrin

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Everything worth nicking has already been nicked :greengrin

And taken over the border.

[Stairway 2 7]

Good absolute clown

PolitlcsUK
·
BREAKING: Margaret Ferrier has been SACKED as an MP following a successful recall petition

11,896 of her constituents voted to trigger a by-election

[Ozyhibby]

Good absolute clown

PolitlcsUK
·
BREAKING: Margaret Ferrier has been SACKED as an MP following a successful recall petition

11,896 of her constituents voted to trigger a by-election

Surprised only 14% signed the recall?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Surprised only 14% signed the recall?


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A total of 11,896 out of the 81,124 eligible constituents in Rutherglen and Hamilton West signed the petition.

That exceeded the 10% threshold and means a by-election will take place

Bbc

[Ozyhibby]

A total of 11,896 out of the 81,124 eligible constituents in Rutherglen and Hamilton West signed the petition.

That exceeded the 10% threshold and means a by-election will take place

Bbc

Yes, was just surprised it only got to 14% with all the party activists out encouraging people to sign.


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[He's here!]

Yes, was just surprised it only got to 14% with all the party activists out encouraging people to sign.


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Maybe the yes voting constituents don't want to run the risk of a Labour win and decided it might be better just to keep Ferrier in place for now? Or maybe she's actually regarded as an OK MP despite her idiotic behaviour? Or maybe people just don't care that much?

[Ozyhibby]

Maybe the yes voting constituents don't want to run the risk of a Labour win and decided it might be better just to keep Ferrier in place for now? Or maybe she's actually regarded as an OK MP despite her idiotic behaviour? Or maybe people just don't care that much?

No idea. Doubt it’s the first one though because SNP were encouraging folk to sign as well.

Big test for both Yousaf and Sarwar. Yousaf will get a bit of a pass if SNP perform below expectations as just in job, Sarwar needs to show some progress though in what should be an easy win for Labour.
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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-course-historic-drubbing-rutherglen-30605359?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=sharebar


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[Stairway 2 7]

No idea. Doubt it’s the first one though because SNP were encouraging folk to sign as well.

Big test for both Yousaf and Sarwar. Yousaf will get a bit of a pass if SNP perform below expectations as just in job, Sarwar needs to show some progress though in what should be an easy win for Labour.
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5000 lead would be a massive swing, I don't think it's an easy win

[Ozyhibby]

5000 lead would be a massive swing, I don't think it's an easy win

It will be a very easy win for Labour. Tactical voting will see Tory voters swing in behind Labour. There about 8,000 of them to be had. And it’s a seat Labour won in 2017. I’d put my house on a Labour win.


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[He's here!]

5000 lead would be a massive swing, I don't think it's an easy win

Not an easy win at all. Despite Ferrier's behaviour and the mess the SNP are in there will remain the core vote for independence at any cost to contend with. A shop dummy could be standing for the SNP and still hoover up those votes. It will be interesting to see if Labour can in some way avoid that being the usual boring battleground.

[weecounty hibby]

Not an easy win at all. Despite Ferrier's behaviour and the mess the SNP are in there will remain the core vote for independence at any cost to contend with. A shop dummy could be standing for the SNP and still hoover up those votes. It will be interesting to see if Labour can in some way avoid that being the usual boring battleground.
Oh stop it now. Is this you hedging your bets? Ferriers I behaviour, SNP in a mess, tactical voting between unionists, this only goes one way and if it doesn't then its a kick in the nuts to unionists but Labour in particular as they've been campaigning for months

[He's here!]

No idea. Doubt it’s the first one though because SNP were encouraging folk to sign as well.

Big test for both Yousaf and Sarwar. Yousaf will get a bit of a pass if SNP perform below expectations as just in job, Sarwar needs to show some progress though in what should be an easy win for Labour.
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I just did a quick search on recall petitions and the only one so far to have attracted more than a 20 per cent response was the one involving the jailed former Labour MP Fiona Onassanya.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/staylorish/status/1686465674716020737?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Transparent.


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[Glory Lurker]

Not an easy win at all. Despite Ferrier's behaviour and the mess the SNP are in there will remain the core vote for independence at any cost to contend with. A shop dummy could be standing for the SNP and still hoover up those votes. It will be interesting to see if Labour can in some way avoid that being the usual boring battleground.

No chance. Labour's to lose.

[Since90+2]

It's pretty much always been a swing seat. It was a labour seat before Ferrier (and a I think SNP before that, and Labour before that).

I wouldn't read too much into that outcome of a seat that has always flipped between the 2 parties.

[He's here!]

It's pretty much always been a swing seat. It was a labour seat before Ferrier (and a I think SNP before that, and Labour before that).

I wouldn't read too much into that outcome of a seat that has always flipped between the 2 parties.

Ferrier lost it in 2017 but stood again and won it back in 2019. Hopefully Labour can take it again.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Ferrier lost it in 2017 but stood again and won it back in 2019. Hopefully Labour can take it again.

With the media's backing, they're strong favourites to take it. It would be an utter embarrassment for them if they were to fail.

[He's here!]

With the media's backing, they're strong favourites to take it. It would be an utter embarrassment for them if they were to fail.

Nothing to do with the SNP falling apart.

[Stairway 2 7]

With the media's backing, they're strong favourites to take it. It would be an utter embarrassment for them if they were to fail.

They had the media against them since 2010 and cruised to massive wins. That has been a constant and can't be blamed for the freefall they are in

[TrumpIsAPeado]

They had the media against them since 2010 and cruised to massive wins. That has been a constant and can't be blamed for the freefall they are in

I was referring to Labour, not the SNP. Considering the free ride Anas Sarwar has in Scotland and the complete reluctance of the media to challenge them over the 2 child cap policy, they should be winning this sort of seat reasonably comfortably. Failing to do so would be a disaster for them.

[Ozyhibby]

It will be rough night for the SNP. I don’t think there is much doubt about that. I don’t see it as a waste of time though. I want to see how Yousaf does as a campaigner. I want to see him fighting hard to win the seat no matter how hopeless it looks. How he performs here will give an indication how he will do at the GE next year. And when we lose, he should own it and quickly move on.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I was referring to Labour, not the SNP. Considering the free ride Anas Sarwar has in Scotland and the complete reluctance of the media to challenge them over the 2 child cap policy, they should be winning this sort of seat reasonably comfortably. Failing to do so would be a disaster for them.

It's the same thing. The media was the same for both parties at the last election and snp had and a landslide. If it was a scientific experiment you'd say the media has been a constant and its something else causing the snp slide. Most probably the culture wars battle I think

[TrumpIsAPeado]

It's the same thing. The media was the same for both parties at the last election and snp had and a landslide. If it was a scientific experiment you'd say the media has been a constant and its something else causing the snp slide. Most probably the culture wars battle I think

They were the same for both parties in the previous election due to the anti-neoliberal Corbyn. They now have their top man in place and will no longer have a bad word to say about the branch party in Scotland. The SNP will continue to get it in the neck though.

[Stairway 2 7]

They were the same for both parties in the previous election due to the anti-neoliberal Corbyn. They now have their top man in place and will no longer have a bad word to say about the branch party in Scotland. The SNP will continue to get it in the neck though.

That doesn't explain the umpteen other elections snp have skooshed including the 2021 Holyrood or 2015 GE. They have constantly been steady in the polls until December when they plummeted

[SHODAN]

I've just received my baby box and my house was up in flames moments later. I'm currently typing this at the Virgin Healthcare Homeless Shelter on a refurbished second hand iPad that Keir Starmer kindly loaned to me at a reasonable rate after I reassured him we would have no more than two children. Curse you Sturgeon! :grr:

(the baby box is fantastic, great policy)

[CropleyWasGod]

I've just received my baby box and my house was up in flames moments later. I'm currently typing this at the Virgin Healthcare Homeless Shelter on a refurbished second hand iPad that Keir Starmer kindly loaned to me at a reasonable rate after I reassured him we would have no more than two children. Curse you Sturgeon! :grr:

(the baby box is fantastic, great policy)

Congratulations :agree:

[McD]

I've just received my baby box and my house was up in flames moments later. I'm currently typing this at the Virgin Healthcare Homeless Shelter on a refurbished second hand iPad that Keir Starmer kindly loaned to me at a reasonable rate after I reassured him we would have no more than two children. Curse you Sturgeon! :grr:

(the baby box is fantastic, great policy)


I thought you were serious when I read your first sentence, glad you were kidding :greengrin


congrats on the wee one :thumbsup:

[He's here!]

Robin Harper quits Scottish Greens as party has 'lost the plot' - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-66389816)

There must be many within the SNP who rue the day they brought this lot on board for the sake of Sturgeon's majority.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Robin Harper quits Scottish Greens as party has 'lost the plot' - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-66389816)

There must be many within the SNP who rue the day they brought this lot on board for the sake of Sturgeon's majority.

I wouldn't think so. What was their alternative with the tories, labour and lib dems all grouping together at Holyrood?

[Ozyhibby]

I wouldn't think so. What was their alternative with the tories, labour and lib dems all grouping together at Holyrood?

Yip. The Scottish parliament is now divided on constitutional lines. When the SNP do eventually lose power, it will be to a Labour, Tory, Lib Dem coalition.


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[Just Alf]

Yip. The Scottish parliament is now divided on constitutional lines. When the SNP do eventually lose power, it will be to a Labour, Tory, Lib Dem coalition.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThe other scenario would be if we ever did get independence

I think Labour could win handsomely after the 1st term

[Stairway 2 7]

The other scenario would be if we ever did get independence

I think Labour could win handsomely after the 1st term

I think we will be like Northern Ireland with loads of parties some for independence and some rejoin.

We need to be truthful and admit there will be a huge cut in our finances after independence due to losing barnett funding. We'll need to make big cuts. We'll also need a large amount of austerity to get in eu.

Things will be financially difficult for a decade much like brexit. We'll lose a lot of funding, try to get a trade deal with the uk and not be in the EU

There will be calls to rejoin just like brexit. What we need to put forward is we have the opportunity to make things better post the initial pain

[Ozyhibby]

I think we will be like Northern Ireland with loads of parties some for independence and some rejoin.

We need to be truthful and admit there will be a huge cut in our finances after independence due to losing barnett funding. We'll need to make big cuts. We'll also need a large amount of austerity to get in eu.

Things will be financially difficult for a decade much like brexit. We'll lose a lot of funding, try to get a trade deal with the uk and not be in the EU

There will be calls to rejoin just like brexit. What we need to put forward is we have the opportunity to make things better post the initial pain

With all this dirty oil money coming in, maybe we won’t need cuts? Especially if we take a share more like what the Norwegians take.


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[Stairway 2 7]

With all this dirty oil money coming in, maybe we won’t need cuts? Especially if we take a share more like what the Norwegians take.


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That ship has sailed. Contracts signed and we won't get a boon from the renewables as we get pennies in the pound for that too unfortunately. We will eventually rejoin EU and flourish. There will definitely be austerity first and the media will be in full drive for rejoin. I think we need prepared for that as the job isn't over post independence day

[Ozyhibby]

That ship has sailed. Contracts signed and we won't get a boon from the renewables as we get pennies in the pound for that too unfortunately. We will eventually rejoin EU and flourish. There will definitely be austerity first and the media will be in full drive for rejoin. I think we need prepared for that as the job isn't over post independence day

All the renewable licenses haven’t been sold yet? I expect next GERS figures will show Scotlands deficit to be in better territory.


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[Stairway 2 7]

All the renewable licenses haven’t been sold yet? I expect next GERS figures will show Scotlands deficit to be in better territory.


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There's obviously future licences to be sold but the last big sale we are getting an estimated £50 million profit per year and the energy companies £3.5 billion. It will take a large departure for us to do a Norway.

Hopefully Wales are successful setting up there energy company with common weal and it'll grow confidence in that approach. Because the next two big tranches will be sold before we get independence

[Jack]

We need to be truthful and admit there will be a huge cut in our finances after independence due to losing barnett funding. We'll need to make big cuts. We'll also need a large amount of austerity to get in eu.


You make it sound as if Scotland doesn't have any income other than the Barnet Formula!

Where do you think Westminster gets all the money to generously bestow on Scotland?

Do you think these mercenary ******** wouldn't have got shot of us at the last referendum if we were costing them money?

Too wee, too poor by bahooky!

[Stairway 2 7]

You make it sound as if Scotland doesn't have any income other than the Barnet Formula!

Where do you think Westminster gets all the money to generously bestow on Scotland?

Do you think these mercenary ******** wouldn't have got shot of us at the last referendum if we were costing them money?

Too wee, too poor by bahooky!

You may not like it but its a fact. We get more than we bring in. London subsidises most of the UK. Look at the GERS figures. It's not a compliment to the union that Scotland is poorer but it simply is.

We aren't too poor we would still be a wealthy nation, our gdp would be less than England but with the chance to join EU I'm sure we'd grow faster

[degenerated]

You may not like it but its a fact. We get more than we bring in. London subsidises most of the UK. Look at the GERS figures. It's not a compliment to the union that Scotland is poorer but it simply is.

We aren't too poor we would still be a wealthy nation, our gdp would be less than England but with the chance to join EU I'm sure we'd grow fasterWe don't actually know what we raise as there has been no proper analysis done on this in decades.

GERS is certainly not an accurate reflection of Scotland's finances, there's way too many assumptions, suppositions and guesswork in there for it to be worth anything.

[Greenworld]

You may not like it but its a fact. We get more than we bring in. London subsidises most of the UK. Look at the GERS figures. It's not a compliment to the union that Scotland is poorer but it simply is.

We aren't too poor we would still be a wealthy nation, our gdp would be less than England but with the chance to join EU I'm sure we'd grow fasterThat is not fact and has been proven many times to be untrue. I'm surprised you bring Gers up in a good light on this site.[emoji16]

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[Stairway 2 7]

Some say GERS overplays it but most decent analysis says there still is a gap where we get more. That is before we get to barnett giving us more than our population share. I don't think there is a sensible analyst that doesn't say there will be a funding gap post independence

[Hibrandenburg]

Is GERS calculated before or after government ministers have troosered their cut or given their pals a slice of the cake?

[Jack]

Some say GERS overplays it but most decent analysis says there still is a gap where we get more. That is before we get to barnett giving us more than our population share. I don't think there is a sensible analyst that doesn't say there will be a funding gap post independence

Good luck getting a reputable accountant to sign them off as a true and fair view of Scotlands financial position.

[Stairway 2 7]

The replies show me that when we're independent and at a deficit, it's going to be an open goal for rejoin. If we're not truthful now then yes voters are going to say we were lied to that there won't need to be cuts. We will have to take an equal share of the massive debt. Also if we want to join the EU we will have to make cuts from our current deficit of 7% down to 3% post joining

Derek Mackay conceded that GERS is independent and a reflection of now. His argument is its not a reflection of where we could be so he's going to produce a rival similar to the UKs growth commission. I think that's fair its a decent snapshot of now but not of where we can be

[grunt]

The replies show me that when we're independent and at a deficit, it's going to be an open goal for rejoin. If we're not truthful now then yes voters are going to say we were lied to that there won't need to be cuts. We will have to take an equal share of the massive debt. Also if we want to join the EU we will have to make cuts from our current deficit of 7% down to 3% post joining

Derek Mackay conceded that GERS is independent and a reflection of now. His argument is it's not a reflection of where we could be so he's going to produce a rival similar to the UKs growth commission. I think that's fair its a decent snapshot of now but not of where we can be
You're right. Let's not even bother.

[He's here!]

You may not like it but its a fact. We get more than we bring in. London subsidises most of the UK. Look at the GERS figures. It's not a compliment to the union that Scotland is poorer but it simply is.

We aren't too poor we would still be a wealthy nation, our gdp would be less than England but with the chance to join EU I'm sure we'd grow faster

Scotland able to spend more on public services after deal with UK Treasury | Scotland | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/02/scotland-able-to-spend-more-on-public-services-after-deal-with-uk-treasury)

[Moulin Yarns]

Scotland able to spend more on public services after deal with UK Treasury | Scotland | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/aug/02/scotland-able-to-spend-more-on-public-services-after-deal-with-uk-treasury)

Or more correctly add to the Scottish debt.


The agreement will allow ministers in Edinburgh to double their annual borrowing to protect day-to-day spending to £600m

[Ozyhibby]

The replies show me that when we're independent and at a deficit, it's going to be an open goal for rejoin. If we're not truthful now then yes voters are going to say we were lied to that there won't need to be cuts. We will have to take an equal share of the massive debt. Also if we want to join the EU we will have to make cuts from our current deficit of 7% down to 3% post joining

Derek Mackay conceded that GERS is independent and a reflection of now. His argument is its not a reflection of where we could be so he's going to produce a rival similar to the UKs growth commission. I think that's fair its a decent snapshot of now but not of where we can be

We don’t know that our deficit is 7%?


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[degenerated]

We don’t know that our deficit is 7%?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWe have absolutely no idea as Gers are a nonsense. The last time I bothered to look through them I noticed 17 or 18 instances of assumed figures being used and the spend on defence was twice that of the UK,.amongst other stuff. I guess the Scottish income tax system has made the data for that more robust but they still have little idea on the country of origin for indirect taxation and I'm not sure it even takes account of UK borrowing?

The argument is always that they are the SG figures but it's based on incredibly poor information provided by HM Treasury. There needs to be proper independent fiscal reporting created so we can see the actual position rather than this politically motivated report that Ian Lang had created to weaken the case for Scottish self determination.

[Jack]

We have absolutely no idea as Gers are a nonsense. The last time I bothered to look through them I noticed 17 or 18 instances of assumed figures being used and the spend on defence was twice that of the UK,.amongst other stuff. I guess the Scottish income tax system has made the data for that more robust but they still have little idea on the country of origin for indirect taxation and I'm not sure it even takes account of UK borrowing?

The argument is always that they are the SG figures but it's based on incredibly poor information provided by HM Treasury. There needs to be proper independent fiscal reporting created so we can see the actual position rather than this politically motivated report that Ian Lang had created to weaken the case for Scottish self determination.

You're absolutely right.

Just look at all these former British Empire countries that are now floundering. Not.

[Greenworld]

We don’t know that our deficit is 7%?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWe legally have to balance our books every year we don't have a definitely. This is a mythical part of English debt

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