SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Berwickhibby]

Yes, they abstained instead of voting against. And he has avoided the issue since.


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Damage is done imho …cronyism

[Ozyhibby]

Damage is done imho …cronyism

Has it swung your vote away from the SNP?[emoji102]


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[Berwickhibby]

Has it swung your vote away from the SNP?[emoji102]


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Yup :agree: :greengrin:greengrin…only kidding would not vote for them anyway lol 😂

[marinello59]

Yes, they abstained instead of voting against. And he has avoided the issue since.


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I know you can spin every thing the SNP does in to a positive but you are going to have to guide me toward where he rowed back.
He initially blamed the process and claimed his friend merely made a mistake.
When it came to the day of the vote the SNP group continue to criticise the process rather than their man and got an amendment passed including criticism of that process. At this point the SNP could have pushed for an amendment with a lesser sanction but after the Greens told them to bolt they didn’t so their own amendment included the original sanction. Which they abstained on so effectively backing no sanctions. It was superb political theatre. :greengrin. But where is the row back?
He has avoided it since as he can’t defend his actions but he did send one of his ministers out to tell us nobody was really interested in Matheson any more and we all have to move on now. Thats the electorate told :greengrin

[Andy Bee]

Genuine questions BH putting party politics to one side and assuming Scotland had a completely different system of governance that didn't even know who the SNP was.

Would you want all energy generation, oil and gas created in Scotland in the control of the Westminster or Scottish government?

Would you want all taxes taken and distributed controlled by a Westminster or Scottish Government?

Would you want a currency where you could borrow/issue and invest in whatever way you seen fit or stick with the £

[Berwickhibby]

Genuine questions BH putting party politics to one side and assuming Scotland had a completely different system of governance that didn't even know who the SNP was.

Would you want all energy generation, oil and gas created in Scotland in the control of the Westminster or Scottish government?

Would you want all taxes taken and distributed controlled by a Westminster or Scottish Government?

Would you want a currency where you could borrow/issue and invest in whatever way you seen fit or stick with the £

I like being British and being part of the UK, that said I would like to see more powers devolved to Holyrood and eventually only administrative powers left to Westminster like Defence, Foreign office passports and embassies.

In regard to currency Scotland need a central bank with a serious reserve. Love to see an independent Scottish financial currency but not going to happen in my lifetime.

In regard to energy thanks to Thatcher selling off energy to investors instead of Nationalised …we (Scotland) don’t own it, belongs to major corporations. That’s why Labour are wanting to hit them with the windfall tax.

Too sum up honestly, I like the safety blanket of the UK but more powers and financial control needed at Holyrood.

[Andy Bee]

I like being British and being part of the UK, that said I would like to see more powers devolved to Holyrood and eventually only administrative powers left to Westminster like Defence, Foreign office passports and embassies.

In regard to currency Scotland need a central bank with a serious reserve. Love to see an independent Scottish financial currency but not going to happen in my lifetime.

In regard to energy thanks to Thatcher selling off energy to investors instead of Nationalised …we (Scotland) don’t own it, belongs to major corporations. That’s why Labour are wanting to hit them with the windfall tax.

Too sum up honestly, I like the safety blanket of the UK but more powers and financial control needed at Holyrood.


Thanks for that, you're not actually far off my own thoughts, 4 independent countries, completely self autonomous but in a Union with no one body controlling it.

So what I thought was an inexplicable hatred for Scottish Independence is really a very explicable hatred for the SNP, I can relate to that, I can relate to that a lot. :greengrin

[J-C]

Yup :agree: :greengrin:greengrin…only kidding would not vote for them anyway lol 😂

Really, never have guessed. :greengrin

[Bristolhibby]

Thanks for that, you're not actually far off my own thoughts, 4 independent countries, completely self autonomous but in a Union with no one body controlling it.

So what I thought was an inexplicable hatred for Scottish Independence is really a very explicable hatred for the SNP, I can relate to that, I can relate to that a lot. :greengrin

Are you not just describing independence for all U.K. Countries?

Once defence and citizenship is devolved then it’s only monetary policy. Who controls that? Would it be like the EU?

That could be something that could be sold. Interesting that no party is espousing this.

J

[JimBHibees]

Are you not just describing independence for all U.K. Countries?

Once defence and citizenship is devolved then it’s only monetary policy. Who controls that? Would it be like the EU?

That could be something that could be sold. Interesting that no party is espousing this.

J

Certainly no way key Uk parties are agreeing to that

[marinello59]

Are you not just describing independence for all U.K. Countries?

Once defence and citizenship is devolved then it’s only monetary policy. Who controls that? Would it be like the EU?

That could be something that could be sold. Interesting that no party is espousing this.

J

Looks more like a Federal system and if there was the political will to move towards something like that it would probably be the best solution to break the current impasse.

[Andy Bee]

Are you not just describing independence for all U.K. Countries?

Once defence and citizenship is devolved then it’s only monetary policy. Who controls that? Would it be like the EU?

That could be something that could be sold. Interesting that no party is espousing this.

J


Yup, fully autonomous including all countries to have their own currencies if they choose, a bit like Sweden and Denmark who seem to cope with it well and for the most part both currencies are of similar values.

I suppose the UK could still have its own Government but without the powers it has now. Switzerland has a National Government with seven MPs, they're told what to do by the people in each Canton. I watched a Scottish expat explain the system whereby he gets a voting pack every three months with all the parties policies put forward in his Canton (region) there's detailed explanations on each policy from all parties, the pros and cons, he then votes on each policy. He joked that the MSM can't influence the narrative because it's all there in black and white. The National MPs are then told to implement the outcome, he says "we just tell them to do it, they don't have a choice."

An example of that system he explained was the pension, they wanted to increase pensions but it was voted down nationally so they then voted on a policy to increase the number of months in a year to thirteen and that vote succeeded. They get two monthly pension payments in December now. :greengrin

[Keith_M]

Did he fraudulently claim £11k from the taxpayers? YES. Once discovered, did he lie on more than one occasion about the circumstances of the claim? YES I accept that he paid the funds claimed back.

I use the term fraudulent or thief quite intentionally, unless MSPs are exempt but when claiming expenditures within public bodies you sign a declaration that it’s an honest and true expense which you are entitled to claim. I don’t think roaming charges to watch Celtic TV fits.


Can't argue with any of that.

The guy's an idiot and Swinney made a serious mistake in trying to play down what happened.

[Keith_M]

....
An example of that system he explained was the pension, they wanted to increase pensions but it was voted down nationally so they then voted on a policy to increase the number of months in a year to thirteen and that vote succeeded. They get two monthly pension payments in December now. :greengrin


The Austrians took it one step further and have 14 months in a year.


My wife used to get 14 monthly wage payments, two in June and two in December


:greengrin

[Andy Bee]

The Austrians took it one step further and have 14 months in a year.


My wife used to get 14 monthly wage payments, two in June and two in December


:greengrin

:greengrin

You see different systems like this all over the world, It's absolutely bananas that for hundreds of years we've all put up with a system that was always created to serve only the lords and lairds of this country.

[Berwickhibby]

:greengrin

You see different systems like this all over the world, It's absolutely bananas that for hundreds of years we've all put up with a system that was always created to serve only the lords and lairds of this country.

In Germany there was always a 13th month pension/salary called Weihnachtsheld (Christmas Money) normally in Novembers salary my understanding was that they paid you very Callander month 4 weeks wages the excess days made up the 13th month

[CropleyWasGod]

There are 13 State Pension payments in the UK.

[lapsedhibee]

There are 13 State Pension payments in the UK.

You can get 26 if you ask nicely. And it used to be 52 - ****** austerity!

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/stvnews/status/1798330028809236978?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

We can def say that now that there has been a huge change in direction for the SNP. Having to do it while mid election campaign is less than ideal but it will pay off in two years time in Scottish Election.


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[marinello59]

https://x.com/stvnews/status/1798330028809236978?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

We can def say that now that there has been a huge change in direction for the SNP. Having to do it while mid election campaign is less than ideal but it will pay off in two years time in Scottish Election.


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Forbes is actually pretending that the SNP have never been against new exploration licenses which we know is a bare faced lie. She did it with a straight face as well.
I admire the ambition on show here, upgrading from Party before Country to Party before Planet. :greengrin

[Berwickhibby]

Forbes is actually pretending that the SNP have never been against new exploration licenses which we know is a bare faced lie. She did it with a straight face as well.
I admire the ambition on show here, upgrading from Party before Country to Party before Planet. :greengrin

What politicians telling lies….🤔….well I never

[147lothian]

There's probably a number of people who have moved away from the snp over the past four years over all the hubris and entitlement of the sturgeon green coalition then the continuity clown prince. Who were thinking it might be safe to return to the snp under Swinney and Forbes, who are thinking again after John Swinney's handling of the Matheson affair.

[grunt]

There's probably a number of people who have moved away from the snp over the past four years over all the hubris and entitlement of the sturgeon green coalition then the continuity clown prince. Who were thinking it might be safe to return to the snp under Swinney and Forbes, who are thinking again after John Swinney's handling of the Matheson affair.
:greengrin

[JimBHibees]

There's probably a number of people who have moved away from the snp over the past four years over all the hubris and entitlement of the sturgeon green coalition then the continuity clown prince. Who were thinking it might be safe to return to the snp under Swinney and Forbes, who are thinking again after John Swinney's handling of the Matheson affair.

Are you one of them?

[Moulin Yarns]

John Mason, the only MSP to vote against the safe space bill for abortion clinics!!

[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/drug-treatment-waiting-times-meet-national-target

How dare they meet targets?

[Stairway 2 7]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/drug-treatment-waiting-times-meet-national-target

How dare they meet targets?

Now do drug deaths

[Kato]

Now do drug deathsIs there a target for drugs deaths?

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[Stairway 2 7]

Is there a target for drugs deaths?

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With the worst level of drug deaths in Europe and worse than America, hopefully there is a target and it's a dramatic reduction

[Stairway 2 7]

COSLA said the council tax freeze not being funded will cause massive cuts to council budgets. Now 23 out of 32 councils waste teams so far are going on strike due to poor wage offers. If you keep freezing council tax it has to be fully funded

[hibee]

COSLA said the council tax freeze not being funded will cause massive cuts to council budgets. Now 23 out of 32 councils waste teams so far are going on strike due to poor wage offers. If you keep freezing council tax it has to be fully funded

Humza said on many occasions that the council tax freeze was fully funded so there was nothing to worry about.

[Berwickhibby]

Humza said on many occasions that the council tax freeze was fully funded so there was nothing to worry about.

What are you suggesting, that Humza was possibly telling fibs 🙄, I am shocked 🤣🤣🤣

[grunt]

What are you suggesting, that Humza was possibly telling fibs 🙄, I am shocked 🤣🤣🤣Perhaps it's COSLA that's telling the fibs? Or possibly the real answer is that it's a bit more nuanced than that.

[Stairway 2 7]

Perhaps it's COSLA that's telling the fibs? Or possibly the real answer is that it's a bit more nuanced than that.

COSLAs president is an SNP councillor and the board is a cross section of parties including SNP. They say it isn't fully funded and site the independent LGIU analysis
https://www.cosla.gov.uk/news/2024/144-million-will-not-fully-fund-a-council-tax-freeze,-say-cosla

Oxfam called it misguided, LGIU says it will create a £160 million shortfall for councils as not fully funded
https://archive.ph/JTkBB

[marinello59]

COSLAs president is an SNP councillor and the board is a cross section of parties including SNP. They say it isn't fully funded and site the independent LGIU analysis
https://www.cosla.gov.uk/news/2024/144-million-will-not-fully-fund-a-council-tax-freeze,-say-cosla

Oxfam called it misguided, LGIU says it will create a £160 million shortfall for councils as not fully funded
https://archive.ph/JTkBB

A Tory style policy created in a panic following the by-election defeat and forced through with no discussions with the Councils despite the ink still being wet on the agreement Yousaf had signed pledging closer co-operation. Warnings that this was underfunded have been either denied or ignored. I don't think there are many SNP supporters actually defending this one.

[Pretty Boy]

A Tory style policy created in a panic following the by-election defeat and forced through with no discussions with the Councils despite the ink still being wet on the agreement Yousaf had signed pledging closer co-operation. Warnings that this was underfunded have been either denied or ignored. I don't think there are many SNP supporters actually defending this one.

It was a maddeningly ill thought out policy that is having real repercussions in the most deprived communities. It's repeated behaviour as well, a council tax freeze has been the SNPs go to whenever they need something a bit populist stretching all the way back to Eck Salmond's day.

I posted previously about my bairns nursery being closed due to cuts to subsidised funding. That is devastating for working families who rely on such (thankfully not me) and it's one example of many. All kinds of community initiatives and services are being closed or cut to the bone because the shortfalls are unsustainable.

Fully funded, pull the other one.

[JimBHibees]

It was a maddeningly ill thought out policy that is having real repercussions in the most deprived communities. It's repeated behaviour as well, a council tax freeze has been the SNPs go to whenever they need something a bit populist stretching all the way back to Eck Salmond's day.

I posted previously about my bairns nursery being closed due to cuts to subsidised funding. That is devastating for working families who rely on such (thankfully not me) and it's one example of many. All kinds of community initiatives and services are being closed or cut to the bone because the shortfalls are unsustainable.

Fully funded, pull the other one.

Did councils have the power to impose increases if they didn’t agree with the freeze?

[Stairway 2 7]

Did councils have the power to impose increases if they didn’t agree with the freeze?

Not really Scot gov said they would stop their allocation of funding to any council who chose a tax raise to bridge funding gaps

[Andy Bee]

This is austerity folks, get used to it if you haven't already because there's more coming.

The freeze was never fully funded, it was a 5% increase and councils could choose to raise it further but would forfeit the 5% in doing so.

These services were closing long before Yousaf came out with the Council Tax freeze brain fart. Example.....Bubbles swimming pool in Livingston, built 20 years ago, had a £4m refit 10 years ago has now been demolished and the land sold off for £850k to someone who's building a 24hr petrol station and a drive thru, Broxburn swimming pool the same although they can't find a buyer for the land, Armadale I think is the same, Whitburn managed to fight off the same fate luckily. West Calder Library closed and I'm sure there's plenty more of them closed. West Calder Police Station unused and plenty more of them have either been sold or are unused. If anyone thinks this is all down to council tax freezes or the SNP they really need to start opening their eyes.

[marinello59]

This is austerity folks, get used to it if you haven't already because there's more coming.

The freeze was never fully funded, it was a 5% increase and councils could choose to raise it further but would forfeit the 5% in doing so.

These services were closing long before Yousaf came out with the Council Tax freeze brain fart. Example.....Bubbles swimming pool in Livingston, built 20 years ago, had a £4m refit 10 years ago has now been demolished and the land sold off for £850k to someone who's building a 24hr petrol station and a drive thru, Broxburn swimming pool the same although they can't find a buyer for the land, Armadale I think is the same, Whitburn managed to fight off the same fate luckily. West Calder Library closed and I'm sure there's plenty more of them closed. West Calder Police Station unused and plenty more of them have either been sold or are unused. If anyone thinks this is all down to council tax freezes or the SNP they really need to start opening their eyes.

You are answering a point that nobody has made. I haven’t seen anybody saying all the problems are down to the Council Tax freeze and I respectfully suggest everyone here has their eyes open and is more than capable of seeing the bigger picture. . Even me. :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

Not really Scot gov said they would stop their allocation of funding to any council who chose a tax raise to bridge funding gaps

Ok

[grunt]

You are answering a point that nobody has made. I haven’t seen anybody saying all the problems are down to the Council Tax freeze and I respectfully suggest everyone here has their eyes open and is more than capable of seeing the bigger picture. . Even me. :greengrin


A Tory style policy created in a panic following the by-election defeat and forced through with no discussions with the Councils despite the ink still being wet on the agreement Yousaf had signed pledging closer co-operation. Warnings that this was underfunded have been either denied or ignored. I don't think there are many SNP supporters actually defending this one.:agree:

[marinello59]

:agree:

I’m not sure if you agreeing with me or suggesting I have contradicted myself.

I’m going with agreeing, I think we are bonding over the course of this election . :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Did councils have the power to impose increases if they didn’t agree with the freeze?

2 councils, I think Argyll and Bute and Inverclyde had proposed council tax rises of 8% and 10% but got round the table with the Scottish Government and made deals, not 100% sure but they almost certainly got more money from the Scottish Government.

[Moulin Yarns]

Not really Scot gov said they would stop their allocation of funding to any council who chose a tax raise to bridge funding gaps

Wrong!!

https://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/news/2024/apr/council-freezes-council-tax-argyll-and-bute

[Andy Bee]

You are answering a point that nobody has made. I haven’t seen anybody saying all the problems are down to the Council Tax freeze and I respectfully suggest everyone here has their eyes open and is more than capable of seeing the bigger picture. . Even me. :greengrin

:greengrin I actually started off trying to respond to PB then as per I get myself wound up and start getting myself into some kinda mini rage and it's getting worse the closer this bollox election comes. I'm either going to get enough beers in to cover me until at least next Wednesday or I'm heading somewhere abroad.

[Stairway 2 7]

Wrong!!

https://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/news/2024/apr/council-freezes-council-tax-argyll-and-bute

Did you read it. It literally says funding would only be given to them I'd they freeze the council tax. They got £2 million due to adverse weather that they used to bridge gap but still had a massive deficit. All councils agreed to freeze the council tax as they had no choice, Edinburgh Midlothian, Lanarkshire, West Lothian all these councils and more said they had to agree but still face massive cuts

Argyle Bute council said they have a £10 million shortfall this year despite the deal

https://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/news/2024/feb/budget-set-save-council-services#:~:text=Decisions%20made%20today%20keep%2 0investment%20going%20in%20Argyll%20and%20Bute's%2 0future.%E2%80%9D&text=The%20Scottish%20Government%20had%20announced ,million%20cash%20cut%20to%20councils.

Councillor Robin Currie, Leader of Argyll and Bute Council said:

“In all the years I’ve been a councillor, this has been the most difficult budget to set. We considered every option to save the council services and local jobs that communities need. We campaigned for fair council funding for Argyll and Bute with CoSLA. We identified nearly £4 million more savings without affecting services or jobs. We took steps to raise income such as doubling council tax on second homes. But Argyll and Bute still faced a multi-million pound budget gap that threatened the council services people use every day.

This service-saving budget is only possible with an increase in council tax. Council tax funds council services. Increasing council tax saves services.

It was a difficult decision to take but it is the responsible one. Council tax reduction benefits are there to help those in greatest need. And communities across the area can continue to rely on the council services and support they need.”

[marinello59]

:greengrin I actually started off trying to respond to PB then as per I get myself wound up and start getting myself into some kinda mini rage and it's getting worse the closer this bollox election comes. I'm either going to get enough beers in to cover me until at least next Wednesday or I'm heading somewhere abroad.

I get that. :greengrin

[jamie_1875]

Wrong!!

https://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/news/2024/apr/council-freezes-council-tax-argyll-and-bute

The Scottish Government did indeed state if a council never adhered to the freeze they would lose some funding.

It was an all round disastrous move, if the Tories had treated the Scottish Government the way the Scottish Government treated the local councils there would have been totally justified outrage.

[Moulin Yarns]

Did you read it. It literally says funding would only be given to them I'd they freeze the council tax. They got £2 million due to adverse weather that they used to bridge gap but still had a massive deficit. All councils agreed to freeze the council tax as they had no choice, Edinburgh Midlothian, Lanarkshire, West Lothian all these councils and more said they had to agree but still face massive cuts

Argyle Bute council said they have a £10 million shortfall this year despite the deal

https://www.argyll-bute.gov.uk/news/2024/feb/budget-set-save-council-services#:~:text=Decisions%20made%20today%20keep%2 0investment%20going%20in%20Argyll%20and%20Bute's%2 0future.%E2%80%9D&text=The%20Scottish%20Government%20had%20announced ,million%20cash%20cut%20to%20councils.

Councillor Robin Currie, Leader of Argyll and Bute Council said:

“In all the years I’ve been a councillor, this has been the most difficult budget to set. We considered every option to save the council services and local jobs that communities need. We campaigned for fair council funding for Argyll and Bute with CoSLA. We identified nearly £4 million more savings without affecting services or jobs. We took steps to raise income such as doubling council tax on second homes. But Argyll and Bute still faced a multi-million pound budget gap that threatened the council services people use every day.

This service-saving budget is only possible with an increase in council tax. Council tax funds council services. Increasing council tax saves services.

It was a difficult decision to take but it is the responsible one. Council tax reduction benefits are there to help those in greatest need. And communities across the area can continue to rely on the council services and support they need.”

Inverclyde Council has agreed to effectively freeze its council tax despite initially defying the Scottish government.

The local authority has received an additional £2.9m worth of funding from Holyrood to offset a planned 8.2% rise in the charge.


https://thelochsidepress.com/2024/03/19/argyll-and-bute-council-tax-freeze-what-you-need-to-know/

[Stairway 2 7]

Inverclyde Council has agreed to effectively freeze its council tax despite initially defying the Scottish government.

The local authority has received an additional £2.9m worth of funding from Holyrood to offset a planned 8.2% rise in the charge.


https://thelochsidepress.com/2024/03/19/argyll-and-bute-council-tax-freeze-what-you-need-to-know/

They also say they are facing millions of cuts. All councils reluctantly made deals as they would lose millions if they didn't it's coercion not to increase council tax rates. Argyll Bute, West Lothian and a dozen more or so said they would have increased if they were allowed. I think your defending the indefensible.

It was a poor decision to freeze it and every council in the country are facing massive cuts, they cuts disproportionately effect those worst off in the community. They have said they are going to change the council tax completely for the last decade, I'd be happy with that but so far it's just words

[Moulin Yarns]

They also say they are facing millions of cuts. All councils reluctantly made deals as they would lose millions if they didn't it's coercion not to increase council tax rates. Argyll Bute, West Lothian and a dozen more or so said they would have increased if they were allowed. I think your defending the indefensible.

It was a poor decision to freeze it and every council in the country are facing massive cuts, they cuts disproportionately effect those worst off in the community. They have said they are going to change the council tax completely for the last decade, I'd be happy with that but so far it's just words

Only Argyll and Bute and Inverclyde proposed increase above 5% and successfully got more money, no other council did a deal.

[Stairway 2 7]

Only Argyll and Bute and Inverclyde proposed increase above 5% and successfully got more money, no other council did a deal.

It's not even a secret that they had no choice and dozens critised the freeze. Even the link you put up to prove your point in Argyll said they had to accept a deal if they wanted funding. Are you saying they did have a choice as that seems pretty daft as you would think the SNP would dispute the fact that councils are saying openly to the media that they didn't

[Keith_M]

Given the results from yesterday, I'm beginning to wonder if the SNP have had their day in the sun, and will now go back to being the 2nd/3rd force in Scotland

[Andy Bee]

Given the results from yesterday, I'm beginning to wonder if the SNP have had their day in the sun, and will now go back to being the 2nd/3rd force in Scotland

Depending on what they do between now and 2026 they could end up 4th behind Reform. Going by Swinneys press conference this morning it aint looking promising.

[J-C]

They need to regroup and get back to basics, start listening to the people and stop some of the nonsense policies with people like the Greens etc.

[pollution]

They are in a no win situation.

The SNP want independence whereas Scotland does not.

Bleak but true.

[Ozyhibby]

They are in a no win situation.

The SNP want independence whereas Scotland does not.

Bleak but true.

The country is also open to persuasion. They won’t be persuaded though if you spend three years talking about things that the population has zero interest in while ignoring everything else.
Party needs a total reset and needs to rapidly come up with policy solutions for problems in areas that people care about.
And they can’t say we need time because they don’t have it. They have two years to turn this around or last night will feel like a good night compared to losing in 2026. That means you need to start pushing things through parliament this year that make a difference.


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[Moulin Yarns]

The country is also open to persuasion. They won’t be persuaded though if you spend three years talking about things that the population has zero interest in while ignoring everything else.
Party needs a total reset and needs to rapidly come up with policy solutions for problems in areas that people care about.
And they can’t say we need time because they don’t have it. They have two years to turn this around or last night will feel like a good night compared to losing in 2026. That means you need to start pushing things through parliament this year that make a difference.


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The 2024 manifesto had the following.

Boost NHS funding*
Stand against spending cuts
Scrap the two-child limit on benefits
Ceasefire in Gaza and scrap Trident
Rejoin the EU
Transition to a green economy*
Attract more foreign migrants
Tackle drugs deaths*
Devolve broadcasting powers
Increase maternity pay*

That's for a Westminster election so not everything is relevant to the Scottish Parliament but the ones marked are all within the gift of the Scottish Parliament.

[Ozyhibby]

The 2024 manifesto had the following.

Boost NHS funding*
Stand against spending cuts
Scrap the two-child limit on benefits
Ceasefire in Gaza and scrap Trident
Rejoin the EU
Transition to a green economy*
Attract more foreign migrants
Tackle drugs deaths*
Devolve broadcasting powers
Increase maternity pay*

That's for a Westminster election so not everything is relevant to the Scottish Parliament but the ones marked are all within the gift of the Scottish Parliament.

How many of them make the top 5 of most peoples priorities?


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[Moulin Yarns]

How many of them make the top 5 of most peoples priorities?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If you mean on hibs.net then probably nhs, drug deaths. The general public then probably cost of living, energy prices, nhs, drug deaths, education, dual the A9, Green economy and potholes.

[Ozyhibby]

If you mean on hibs.net then probably nhs, drug deaths. The general public then probably cost of living, energy prices, nhs, drug deaths, education, dual the A9, Green economy and potholes.

Housing, education, health, transport and economy. If that’s not the focus of the SNP for the next two years then Sarwar will be FM. And it’s not enough to just talk about them. They need actual ideas and policies to improve all 5. Everything else is a distraction.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Housing, education, health, transport and economy. If that’s not the focus of the SNP for the next two years then Sarwar will be FM. And it’s not enough to just talk about them. They need actual ideas and policies to improve all 5. Everything else is a distraction.


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Likewise Labour. I saw a breakdown that Labour smashed the votes for renters getting the majority. If he let's them down and doesn't massively build that vote will totally collapse, SNP should take note if they do

[Ozyhibby]

Likewise Labour. I saw a breakdown that Labour smashed the votes for renters getting the majority. If he let's them down and doesn't massively build that vote will totally collapse, SNP should take note if they do

Labour making positive noises on housing. We’ll see if they follow through but we don’t have to wait here in Scotland. Planning is devolved. Work should have started.


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[Hibs4185]

The 2024 manifesto had the following.

Boost NHS funding*
Stand against spending cuts
Scrap the two-child limit on benefits
Ceasefire in Gaza and scrap Trident
Rejoin the EU
Transition to a green economy*
Attract more foreign migrants
Tackle drugs deaths*
Devolve broadcasting powers
Increase maternity pay*

That's for a Westminster election so not everything is relevant to the Scottish Parliament but the ones marked are all within the gift of the Scottish Parliament.

Devolve broadcasting powers. I don’t realise this was the case.

Could the SNP or someone independent minded launch a mainstream channel?

Like the national newspaper but on tv?

Could have a more scottish focused news programme etc.

I know we have BBC Scotland channel but it’s mince

[Moulin Yarns]

Devolve broadcasting powers. I don’t realise this was the case.

Could the SNP or someone independent minded launch a mainstream channel?

Like the national newspaper but on tv?

Could have a more scottish focused news programme etc.

I know we have BBC Scotland channel but it’s mince

https://independencelive.net/tntshow/ you can watch on YouTube I think.

[Ozyhibby]

Devolve broadcasting powers. I don’t realise this was the case.

Could the SNP or someone independent minded launch a mainstream channel?

Like the national newspaper but on tv?

Could have a more scottish focused news programme etc.

I know we have BBC Scotland channel but it’s mince

It’s spending time and money worrying about this sort of thing that has brought Labour back.


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[Andy Bee]

A decent opinion piece by Mcalpine. I think he nails it but unfortunately I don't think any powers that be will listen, if Swinneys post election interview is anything to go by.

https://robinmcalpine.org/this-defeat-was-the-snps-own-creation/

[GlesgaeHibby]

A decent opinion piece by Mcalpine. I think he nails it but unfortunately I don't think any powers that be will listen, if Swinneys post election interview is anything to go by.

https://robinmcalpine.org/this-defeat-was-the-snps-own-creation/

Good piece, as ever by McAlpine. You're right though, the powers that be won't listen. He's been banging his head off a wall writing about the SNP going wrong for ages now, without them taking any serious notice.

I'm still firmly of the view that we missed our best chance to gain independence during the Brexit turmoil years. Sturgeon and Blackford should have used May's weakened position to secure a second referendum in exchange for supporting her Brexit deal. Stopping Brexit for the UK was nuts as a strategy. Since the last referendum we've now endured 10 more years of tory government, brexit, pandemic, cost of living crisis. I think there's an appetite for a period of boring, stable, effective government after years of turmoil.

[Stairway 2 7]

Honest and respectful letter from Stewart McDonald saying SNP need a rethink. He was a good MP hopefully there is a role in the SNP in the future

https://www.scotsman.com/news/opinion/columnists/as-an-ex-snp-mp-i-realise-our-independence-mission-has-been-given-a-hard-pause-by-voters-4692693

[Stairway 2 7]

Street cleaning teams in 32 councils reject the pay rise offer of 3% saying it doesn't take in cost of living or match the offer given in England. It means 8 days of strikes during the festival and the city as well as cities and towns round Scotland covered in rubbish. Was absolutely brutal last time and made me appreciate the jobs these guys and girls do

[Ozyhibby]

Street cleaning teams in 32 councils reject the pay rise offer of 3% saying it doesn't take in cost of living or match the offer given in England. It means 8 days of strikes during the festival and the city as well as cities and towns round Scotland covered in rubbish. Was absolutely brutal last time and made me appreciate the jobs these guys and girls do

Have to say I have no problem supporting unions working for better pay for their members.
Even before these strikes, Edinburgh is a complete mess. Cutting grass now appears to have stopped altogether and weeds allowed to grow unchecked everywhere. Doesn’t seem to matter who we vote for, it just keeps getting worse.


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[lapsedhibee]

weeds allowed to grow unchecked everywhere

Isn't that a rewilding project? :dunno:

[Ozyhibby]

Isn't that a rewilding project? :dunno:

It’s a lot of absolute nonsense then. There are places for that sort of thing but just letting weeds grow through kerbstones unchecked is making the city look an absolute tip. And the more it looks like a tip the more people will treat it as such.
Next council election I’ll vote any party offering to tidy the place up and start cutting grass again. Even if it’s the Tories.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Isn't that a rewilding project? :dunno:

Pure greenwashing in many cases. As oz says hedges overgrown making in a nightmare for disabled people and weeds growing in stones and damaging buildings isn't in the remit of rewilding. Edinburgh is a tip just as we're going to be awash with the big spending visitor numbers any city would die for

[Jack]

The blummin street cleaners only do the centre of town. Let them go on strike it won't affect most of the people that live in Edinburgh.

If it puts tourists off coming to Edinburgh in future good! They can bolt!!

I honestly can't say I've seen any street cleaners in Leith for donkeys ages and only one weedkiller chap about 4 years ago who gave up not long after he started when his wee spray thing broke and he never came back!

If they do go on strike I might take my bins (that don't get emptied when it should anyway, recycling bin has now been out 3 days) and spread the love.

[Stairway 2 7]

The blummin street cleaners only do the centre of town. Let them go on strike it won't affect most of the people that live in Edinburgh.

If it puts tourists off coming to Edinburgh in future good! They can bolt!!

I honestly can't say I've seen any street cleaners in Leith for donkeys ages and only one weedkiller chap about 4 years ago who gave up not long after he started when his wee spray thing broke and he never came back!

If they do go on strike I might take my bins (that don't get emptied when it should anyway, recycling bin has now been out 3 days) and spread the love.

They do all over Edinburgh, leith walk for example gets done every night by a mate of mine, he sends us some hilarious videos of what he sees done nights. Weed treating gets done everywhere you'll notice them more now they are less frequent.

You don't usually see these people but we would soon notice if they stopped for a month, an asset that should be looked after

[Jack]

They do all over Edinburgh, leith walk for example gets done every night by a mate of mine, he sends us some hilarious videos of what he sees done nights. Weed treating gets done everywhere you'll notice them more now they are less frequent.

You don't usually see these people but we would soon notice if they stopped for a month, an asset that should be looked after

Your mate is doing a crap job, there's stuff in the gutters until there's a rain storm.

[Stairway 2 7]

Your mate is doing a crap job, there's stuff in the gutters until there's a rain storm.

Your getting a tory in your old age. They are overworked and underpaid. Expected to do the same job with 80% of the staff of a few years ago. If you see the lads I'm sure you'd tell them they do a crap job or maybe not

[Jack]

Your getting a tory in your old age. They are overworked and underpaid. Expected to do the same job with 80% of the staff of a few years ago. If you see the lads I'm sure you'd tell them they do a crap job or maybe not

As I said I've never seen him or his chums. As for your slur you know where you can stick it.

[grunt]

Funny that, eh?


A Holyrood inquiry has found “no evidence” that the SNP misused stamps bought with public money to aid their General Election campaign.

PS: Woohoo! Thanks to admin people for restoring full post editing capability.

[Hibrandenburg]

The blummin street cleaners only do the centre of town. Let them go on strike it won't affect most of the people that live in Edinburgh.

If it puts tourists off coming to Edinburgh in future good! They can bolt!!

I honestly can't say I've seen any street cleaners in Leith for donkeys ages and only one weedkiller chap about 4 years ago who gave up not long after he started when his wee spray thing broke and he never came back!

If they do go on strike I might take my bins (that don't get emptied when it should anyway, recycling bin has now been out 3 days) and spread the love.

I'm eternally grateful that the countries and cities I visit on holiday don't tell me to bolt. Imagine where that would leave us.

[Kato]

I'm eternally grateful that the countries and cities I visit on holiday don't tell me to bolt. Imagine where that would leave us.Porty

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[J-C]

The consequences of paying off a large loan for the cost of the trams and then more millions spent to extend the line to Newhaven. Council is skint and all the mess is cost cutting.

[Ozyhibby]

The consequences of paying off a large loan for the cost of the trams and then more millions spent to extend the line to Newhaven. Council is skint and all the mess is cost cutting.

The tram has proved value for money. The plans for more lines are direct consequences of its success.
There are many things the council could stop doing, building public transport infrastructure isn’t one of them.


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[Kato]

The trams are a success and extending them seems sensible.

Value for money spent? Nah.

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[J-C]

The tram has proved value for money. The plans for more lines are direct consequences of its success.
There are many things the council could stop doing, building public transport infrastructure isn’t one of them.


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Infrastructure on a budget we could afford, not over double the original costs, which put us in debt, then more millions we don't have to extend it. I may be wrong but I think it's only made a profit once since it started, worth it?

[greenginger]

Infrastructure on a budget we could afford, not over double the original costs, which put us in debt, then more millions we don't have to extend it. I may be wrong but I think it's only made a profit once since it started, worth it?

But was it even a real profit ?
I seem to remember the tram accounts did not include the cost of interest for the money borrowed or a depreciation amount for the equipment.
Having said that, we’ve got them now , they seem well used so we might as well extend them .

[Jack]

I'm eternally grateful that the countries and cities I visit on holiday don't tell me to bolt. Imagine where that would leave us.

That was an Edinburgh Festival comment. Players, visitors and residents are all saying its grown well beyond what is manageable.

Edinburgh’s population is about 560,000 but is expected to cope with 3,000,000 visitors over a 4 week period, 2023 figures. I've seen 4,000,000 quoted for this year! Madness.

[Ozyhibby]

But was it even a real profit ?
I seem to remember the tram accounts did not include the cost of interest for the money borrowed or a depreciation amount for the equipment.
Having said that, we’ve got them now , they seem well used so we might as well extend them .

Tram has lost about £44m over the last ten years since it opened but about £42m of that is interest costs on the initial £440m cost over run. Had the initial botched construction not happened they would almost be breaking even.
The tram has been a massive success overall. I must admit I was sceptical when it was announced but happy to admit I was wrong. Hopefully they start work on the North-South line soon. They are as well getting going while we still have the expertise in the city for this type of building work.


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[marinello59]

The Scottish Government still not getting to grips with the attainment gap after how many promises?


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/06/scotland-exam-results-sqa-pass-rate-falls-attainment-gap-widens

[grunt]

The Scottish Government still not getting to grips with the attainment gap after how many promises?


https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/article/2024/aug/06/scotland-exam-results-sqa-pass-rate-falls-attainment-gap-widens


The SQA noted there had been different approaches to marking in each year since 2019 and that "comparisons of attainment between years should be treated with significant caution and do not allow for meaningful conclusions to be drawn".But don't let that stop you.

[marinello59]

But don't let that stop you.

I won't. The SQA are talking about attainment across the board there, not the attainment gap between rich and poor which has got demonstrably wider.

[grunt]

I won't. The SQA are talking about attainment across the board there, not the attainment gap between rich and poor which has got demonstrably wider.
Read that reply back to yourself a few times and see if you still stand by it. :greengrin

[marinello59]

Read that reply back to yourself a few times and see if you still stand by it. :greengrin

I do.
100%.

[grunt]

I do.
100%.Maybe sleep on it. See if it still makes sense tomorrow.

[marinello59]

Maybe sleep on it. See if it still makes sense tomorrow.

Oh dear.
Attainment across the board, the results achieved by all pupils. The SQA may explain away a drop in attainment from previous years by saying that methods used etc have changed so caution should be applied. That may be the case. (I'm not so sure it's their place to say that meaningful conclusions can't be drawn though.)
That doesn't matter when it comes to comparing the difference between results achieved by kids in the poorest areas and the richest areas. They are being judged using the same methods this year. The gap has got bigger. That's a concern.

[Stairway 2 7]

Maybe sleep on it. See if it still makes sense tomorrow.

He's right attainment including all Scots, the other is attainment from those well off and worst of which has grown.

I've said a number of times how poor curriculum for excellence is and I said here previously this year that attainment between rich and poorer will widen.

[grunt]

Oh dear.
Attainment across the board, the results achieved by all pupils. The SQA may explain away a drop in attainment from previous years by saying that methods used etc have changed so caution should be applied. That may be the case. (I'm not so sure it's their place to say that meaningful conclusions can't be drawn though.)
That doesn't matter when it comes to comparing the difference between results achieved by kids in the poorest areas and the richest areas. They are being judged using the same methods this year. The gap has got bigger. That's a concern.
Ok. I'm clearly no expert. It seems to me that you are comparing the gap this year with the gap last year, and yet the SQA is saying their approach to marking has changed from last year to this. I assume we don't know whether the different approach to marking was constant or consistent across all subjects? Does that even matter? I'd think the simple fact that they've changed the way they assess exams should make any comparisons between years come with a large warning attached.

Maybe you're right and it's all the fault of the SG. In 2026 we'll maybe have a Labour SG back and we can all look forward to sunlit uplands.

[hibee]

Ok. I'm clearly no expert. It seems to me that you are comparing the gap this year with the gap last year, and yet the SQA is saying their approach to marking has changed from last year to this. I assume we don't know whether the different approach to marking was constant or consistent across all subjects? Does that even matter? I'd think the simple fact that they've changed the way they assess exams should make any comparisons between years come with a large warning attached.

Maybe you're right and it's all the fault of the SG. In 2026 we'll maybe have a Labour SG back and we can all look forward to sunlit uplands.

Surely it makes no difference how they assess exams when comparing a gap this year between rich and poor areas, they were all marked in the same way wherever they live and the gap is bigger than it was last year so it’s got worse.

[Ozyhibby]

The good thing is more kids at all levels are going to University. [emoji106]


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[Stairway 2 7]

The good thing is more kids at all levels are going to University. [emoji106]


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Doubt it for long without investment or a higher figure paid for Scottish kids, Unis are toiling due to not getting enough for Scottish kids and a huge drop in foreign students. That's the tories fault but with the nonsense at the weekend I can't see Labour being sensible with changing it. We'll see redundancies at all our unis this year with some starting this month

[marinello59]

Doubt it for long without investment or a higher figure paid for Scottish kids, Unis are toiling due to not getting enough for Scottish kids and a huge drop in foreign students. That's the tories fault but with the nonsense at the weekend I can't see Labour being sensible with changing it. We'll see redundancies at all our unis this year with some starting this month

Mergers between universities are being discussed and courses are being dropped. Aberdeen University is in a particularly bad state. The money paid to universities for 'free' tuition doesn’t cover the costs so that makes the drop in foreign students even more of a worry as they make up the shortfall.
Michael Marra has been trying to kickstart a debate on how we fund higher education for some time but unfortunately it just gets dismissed as Labour planning to introduce tuition fees. (Something he specifically ruled out.) Our Government is burying its head in the sand on this one, they can’t do it for much longer.

[Moulin Yarns]

Doubt it for long without investment or a higher figure paid for Scottish kids, Unis are toiling due to not getting enough for Scottish kids and a huge drop in foreign students. That's the tories fault but with the nonsense at the weekend I can't see Labour being sensible with changing it. We'll see redundancies at all our unis this year with some starting this month

The number of international students studying at Scotland's universities rose to a record high in the 2022-2023 academic year.*Overseas students made up nearly 29% of the total, with their tuition fees providing an important source of funding for universities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyjlenv877o

[marinello59]

The number of international students studying at Scotland's universities rose to a record high in the 2022-2023 academic year.*Overseas students made up nearly 29% of the total, with their tuition fees providing an important source of funding for universities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyjlenv877o

Also from that article.


Universities Scotland believes there has been a drop-off in students arriving from abroad since 2023, that could put the sector's finances under serious pressure in future.
It says free tuition for Scottish undergraduates is made possible by the financial contribution of overseas students.
A spokesperson said the figures were a snapshot of the situation two years ago, before international upheavals and proposed changes to UK immigration policy affected applications.
"That means this data does not provide a sense of what universities are experiencing now," they said.

[Stairway 2 7]

The number of international students studying at Scotland's universities rose to a record high in the 2022-2023 academic year.*Overseas students made up nearly 29% of the total, with their tuition fees providing an important source of funding for universities.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cwyjlenv877o

That's two academic years ago. The tories changed the rules making it difficult for foreign students and the also aren't allowed to bring family. There was a big drop off last year and another big one this I'm told. It's an insane decision as the are massively net positives to the economy, young educated people.

[Ozyhibby]

That's two academic years ago. The tories changed the rules making it difficult for foreign students and the also aren't allowed to bring family. There was a big drop off last year and another big one this I'm told. It's an insane decision as the are massively net positives to the economy, young educated people.

Couldn’t agree more. There is zero downside in bringing in young very smart people to any society.


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[marinello59]

Couldn’t agree more. There is zero downside in bringing in young very smart people to any society.


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I don't think anybody here would argue with that.
However we have a duty to all young people in our education system, no matter where they are in the system and no matter where they come from, to deliver as close to excellence as we can and we are failing them. I don't think anyone can seriously argue with that either.

[Ozyhibby]

I don't think anybody here would argue with that.
However we have a duty to all young people in our education system, no matter where they are in the system and no matter where they come from, to deliver as close to excellence as we can and we are failing them. I don't think anyone can seriously argue with that either.

Our universities have an excellent reputation? I doubt any kid going there is being failed. We have a coming finance problem that we are going to have to solve but I’m sure we will do it.
Scotland is still one of if not the best educated populations in Europe.


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[grunt]

Our universities have an excellent reputation? I doubt any kid going there is being failed. We have a coming finance problem that we are going to have to solve but I’m sure we will do it.
Scotland is still one of if not the best educated populations in Europe.
He means the SNP are failing them.

[marinello59]

Our universities have an excellent reputation? I doubt any kid going there is being failed. We have a coming finance problem that we are going to have to solve but I’m sure we will do it.
Scotland is still one of if not the best educated populations in Europe.


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We don't have a coming financial problem, we have a current financial problem. Aberdeen University said they were facing an existential crisis. Several universities are in talks about merging and courses have been cut across the board. Redundancies ae coming and that will also restrict the amount of tuition and support our students get. If that carries on we will soon start to lose any reputation for excellence.

You seem determined to ignore the attainment gap in our schools, surely you don't think that is acceptable? Sturgeon said she should be judged on education, if that applies to all who have followed her in to the job then the report cards don't make for happy reading.

[grunt]

Attainment gap in Scotland 17.2%, up from 16% last year.
Attainment gap in England 27.0%. Measured differently but that doesn't seem to matter.

Conclusion: Scotland is failing our children.

[grunt]

It's now more than three years since Police Scotland commenced their investigation into SNP party finances. How long do we expect this to continue?

[Ozyhibby]

We don't have a coming financial problem, we have a current financial problem. Aberdeen University said they were facing an existential crisis. Several universities are in talks about merging and courses have been cut across the board. Redundancies ae coming and that will also restrict the amount of tuition and support our students get. If that carries on we will soon start to lose any reputation for excellence.

You seem determined to ignore the attainment gap in our schools, surely you don't think that is acceptable? Sturgeon said she should be judged on education, if that applies to all who have followed her in to the job then the report cards don't make for happy reading.

The problem with promises of closing the attainment gap is it’s not in the gift of the politicians unless they want to go deep into family life? Most of the levers that need pulled to help fix it lie outside the education system. And the problem can never go away fully.
Sturgeon was foolish to say she would get rid of it.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Attainment gap in Scotland 17.2%, up from 16% last year.
Attainment gap in England 27.0%. Measured differently but that doesn't seem to matter.

Conclusion: Scotland is failing our children.

Now do pisa scores. The attainment gap is growing constantly I said it would due to curriculum for excellence, with changes to p1 education in Scotland recently coming in I'd bet it will continue to grow, see you in a year

[McD]

Attainment gap in Scotland 17.2%, up from 16% last year.
Attainment gap in England 27.0%. Measured differently but that doesn't seem to matter.

Conclusion: Scotland is failing our children.



This is the SNP thread, no? And for many posters, their children will be being educated in Scotland, so of interest?


But no, let’s sweep it under the carpet because things are worse elsewhere under a different government, and deflect because it reflects badly in the SNP.

[Stairway 2 7]

The problem with promises of closing the attainment gap is it’s not in the gift of the politicians unless they want to go deep into family life? Most of the levers that need pulled to help fix it lie outside the education system. And the problem can never go away fully.
Sturgeon was foolish to say she would get rid of it.


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They can though. I said here 2 years ago and then 6 months ago curriculum for excellence will widen the gap. It's softly softly everyone is a winner approach is nice for politicians but a joke in reality. We're now going down the p1 is another year of nursery route. We said we'd look at curriculum for excellence at a juncture we did its was failing and we did nowt. The problem is private schools have more leeway to be stricter and veer away from CE. Whilst state schools now give out much less homework better of children get light education at home that worse off don't, watching documentaries, getting homework from parents and most importantly reading and tutoring.

I read a report that says a child reading every night from p1 until s6 gets a year and a half extra education than those that do not. With the tutoring industry exploding and the large expense of it, only one group is having this

When it was brought in we were ahead of England on most subjects we've dropped constantly until we're a good bit behind. At what point do we admit it isn't working.

We can say objectively when things work and others don't, it's too important to just stick to party politics scoring. I genuinely think it was well meaning but just hasn't worked. There is so many things that have, free meals, free university, extra points in exams for certain groups of children.

[Ozyhibby]

They can though. I said here 2 years ago and then 6 months ago curriculum for excellence will widen the gap. It's softly softly everyone is a winner approach is nice for politicians but a joke in reality. We're now going down the p1 is another year of nursery route. We said we'd look at curriculum for excellence at a juncture we did its was failing and we did nowt. The problem is private schools have more leeway to be stricter and veer away from CE. Whilst state schools now give out much less homework better of children get light education at home that worse off don't, watching documentaries, getting homework from parents and most importantly reading and tutoring.

I read a report that says a child reading every night from p1 until s6 gets a year and a half extra education than those that do not. With the tutoring industry exploding and the large expense of it, only one group is having this

When it was brought in we were ahead of England on most subjects we've dropped constantly until we're a good bit behind. At what point do we admit it isn't working.

We can say objectively when things work and others don't, it's too important to just stick to party politics scoring. I genuinely think it was well meaning but just hasn't worked. There is so many things that have, free meals, free university, extra points in exams for certain groups of children.

I agree with that and that CofE hasn’t worked. Homework a massive problem. The difference in the amount of homework my kids (one private and one state school) get is massive. We end up setting home work for our younger one ourselves.
Yes there are improvements that can be made but the solution to attainment is more school less home because that’s where the variable is. How much we are willing to do this and fund this is open to question?
Where independent schools in poor areas elsewhere have succeeded is by longer schooldays, stricter standards etc. I’m not against but I suspect teaching unions would be.


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[grunt]

Now do pisa scores. England doesn't report PISA scores?


This is the SNP thread, no? And for many posters, their children will be being educated in Scotland, so of interest?

But no, let’s sweep it under the carpet because things are worse elsewhere under a different government, and deflect because it reflects badly in the SNP.
I'm not sweeping it under the carpet, far from it. I'm just pointing out that it seems to be better here than elsewhere in the UK. I'd rather my children were educated here because notwithstanding the movement in the attainment gap, it still seems a sight better than elsewhere. I accept that the gap widened last year - although see previous posts for my uncertainty about the validity of the numbers given the change in the approach to marking.

[McD]

England doesn't report PISA scores?


I'm not sweeping it under the carpet, far from it. I'm just pointing out that it seems to be better here than elsewhere in the UK. I'd rather my children were educated here because notwithstanding the movement in the attainment gap, it still seems a sight better than elsewhere. I accept that the gap widened last year - although see previous posts for my uncertainty about the validity of the numbers given the change in the approach to marking.



Mate, you made a number of posts saying we shouldn’t use these numbers to judge, which M59 replied to. You then immediately shifted your position to ‘aye but it’s worse than England’. That’s sweeping it under the carpet.


My child isn’t being educated in England, she’s been educated in Scotland. And the analysis shows that over the last few years, the attainment gap has gotten worse. Therefore, we are letting our children down, and need to do better.

[jamie_1875]

England doesn't report PISA scores?


I'm not sweeping it under the carpet, far from it. I'm just pointing out that it seems to be better here than elsewhere in the UK. I'd rather my children were educated here because notwithstanding the movement in the attainment gap, it still seems a sight better than elsewhere. I accept that the gap widened last year - although see previous posts for my uncertainty about the validity of the numbers given the change in the approach to marking.

PISA scores are done in England, Scotland is behind England in all the main categories according to the last report.


How did Scotland rate this time?

Scotland's score in the 2022 Pisa assessment for reading was 493, down from 504 in 2018 and 526 in 2000 when the Pisa study started.

The reading performance was above the OECD average of 476 points and higher than 24 other countries.

Scotland's reading score is ahead of Wales (466) and Northern Ireland (485) but behind England (496).

For maths the score in 2022 was 471, which is just below the OECD average of 472 points.

However, Scotland's score is down from 489 in 2018 and 491 in 2015.

This is ahead of Wales (466), but behind Northern Ireland (475) and England (492)
In science, Scotland's score was 483 points, below the 490 result in 2018 and 497 in 2015.

This is better than Wales (473) but behind Northern Ireland (488) and England (503).

[grunt]

Mate, you made a number of posts saying we shouldn’t use these numbers to judge, which M59 replied to. You then immediately shifted your position to ‘aye but it’s worse than England’. That’s sweeping it under the carpet.

No it isn't.

[grunt]

PISA scores are done in England, Scotland is behind England in all the main categories according to the last report.


How did Scotland rate this time?

Scotland's score in the 2022 Pisa assessment for reading was 493, down from 504 in 2018 and 526 in 2000 when the Pisa study started.

The reading performance was above the OECD average of 476 points and higher than 24 other countries.

Scotland's reading score is ahead of Wales (466) and Northern Ireland (485) but behind England (496).

For maths the score in 2022 was 471, which is just below the OECD average of 472 points.

However, Scotland's score is down from 489 in 2018 and 491 in 2015.

This is ahead of Wales (466), but behind Northern Ireland (475) and England (492)
In science, Scotland's score was 483 points, below the 490 result in 2018 and 497 in 2015.

This is better than Wales (473) but behind Northern Ireland (488) and England (503).So, not a whole lot of difference then.

[grunt]

Just a brief note for anyone joining this thread late: Scotland is crap at everything, it's all the SNP's fault and things would be much better if we had the Tories/Labour/Greens/LibDem/SSP* in charge.

*Insert your own preferred party.

[JimBHibees]

Just a brief note for anyone joining this thread late: Scotland is crap at everything, it's all the SNP's fault and things would be much better if we had the Tories/Labour/Greens/LibDem/SSP* in charge.

*Insert your own preferred party.

Yes seems to be the case

[Callum_62]

Am I the only one here that's glad my primary age daughter isn't being over burdened by homework?

She has outside activities in performing arts 4 nights out of 7 - how is more homework meant to be achieved without creating a stressed out child?


Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Am I the I my one here that's glad my primary age daughter isn't being over burdened by homework?

She has outside activities in performing arts 4 nights out of 7 - how is more homework meant to be achieved without creating a stressed out child?


Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

The simple facts are nationwide and not talking about individuals, the more homework or tutoring a child does the better their educational attainment. I think most could fit in half an hour easy enough if they replaced some screen time. My cousins bairns in China do 7am until 6pm then do sports. Bit of a culture shock for our students when they go to uni and see how the Chinese kids study

I also told my kids she could either go to bed at x time or stay up for 30 minutes reading. Worked every time until they started to love to read. As I said I'd read a child that reads every night has a two year advantage on those that don't. I remember the bairns English teacher said without asking she could point out every kid who read at home due to the quality in their writing and knowledge

[Callum_62]

The simple facts are nationwide and not talking about individuals, the more homework or tutoring a child does the better their educational attainment. I think most could fit in half an hour easy enough if they replaced some screen time. My cousins bairns in China do 7am until 6pm then do sports. Bit of a culture shock for our students when they go to uni and see how the Chinese kids study

I also told my kids she could either go to bed at x time or stay up for 30 minutes reading. Worked every time until they started to love to read. As I said I'd read a child that reads every night has a two year advantage on those that don't. I remember the bairns English teacher said without asking she could point out every kid who read at home due to the quality in their writing and knowledgeI don't think il take China as a example of raising a child right to be fair

[emoji23]

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[Stairway 2 7]

So, not a whole lot of difference then.

No but the direction of travel is the problem, we are travelling constantly down whilst others are going up, it's the direction of travel of the attainment gap that worries too. At what point do we stop and say let's try something different.

[Stairway 2 7]

I don't think il take China as a example of raising a child right to be fair

[emoji23]

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Their children are definitely more intelligent on average. I've no idea their happiness or other factors. English kids are an easy example and they are now getting smarter than ours. Everyone can raise their child how they want but cutting homework leads to lower educational levels and bigger attainment gaps as better off parents set their own homework and pay for tuition more.

[Hibrandenburg]

Their children are definitely more intelligent on average. I've no idea their happiness or other factors. English kids are an easy example and they are now getting smarter than ours. Everyone can raise their child how they want but cutting homework leads to lower educational levels and bigger attainment gaps as better off parents set their own homework and pay for tuition more.

Don't make the same mistake as Johnson voters, don't mix up intelligence with education.

[McD]

Just a brief note for anyone joining this thread late: Scotland is crap at everything, it's all the SNP's fault and things would be much better if we had the Tories/Labour/Greens/LibDem/SSP* in charge.

*Insert your own preferred party.



Yes, that’s what has been said on the thread recently. Or perhaps you could consider that reasonable criticism has been posted rather than rushing to defend the SNP at every turn, often in the face of evidence to the contrary.


Holding the governing party to account over the performance of education (like NS asked to to be held to account for!) should be done regardless of who the party is. Do you seriously believe that people in here would not be saying exactly the same things about education if it was Labour, Conservatives, Lib Dems, or the Greens who were the governing party?


In this particular instance:
- the SNP were the governing party - after the change was brought in
- Labour changed the way the curriculum works (not the SNP as I thought)
- the SNP (or to be more specific, Nicola Sturgeon) asked to be measured on Scotland’s academic performance
- the analysis shows that that performance has been trending down over the period of time since the change was made

These are all facts. Yet according to you, everyone wanting to discuss this is attacking the SNP.

[Ozyhibby]

Yes, that’s what has been said on the thread recently. Or perhaps you could consider that reasonable criticism has been posted rather than rushing to defend the SNP at every turn, often in the face of evidence to the contrary.


Holding the governing party to account over the performance of education (like NS asked to to be held to account for!) should be done regardless of who the party is. Do you seriously believe that people in here would not be saying exactly the same things about education if it was Labour, Conservatives, Lib Dems, or the Greens who were the governing party?


In this particular instance:
- the SNP were the governing party
- the SNP changed the way the curriculum works
- the SNP (or to be more specific, Nicola Sturgeon) asked to be measured on Scotland’s academic performance
- the analysis shows that that performance has been trending down over the period of time since the change was made

These are all facts. Yet according to you, everyone wanting to discuss this is attacking the SNP.

Curriculum for Excellence was brought in by Labour. Doesn’t get SNP off the hook but blame should be shared.


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[McD]

Curriculum for Excellence was brought in by Labour. Doesn’t get SNP off the hook but blame should be shared.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Ah, thank you for correcting me. Yes absolutely the blame should extend to Labour also, I will edit my post

[Stairway 2 7]

Don't make the same mistake as Johnson voters, don't mix up intelligence with education.

Johnson voters is random shoehorning. Johnson won on brexit and in the brexit vote brexit the less education you had was directly linked to how people voted. People with no A levels or highers overwhelming voted for brexit, those with 4 or more overwhelmingly voted remain. Who'd have thought the more likely you had the tools to gather information the less likely you were to be swindled into believing guff. I bet the same with rioters. Poverty is directly linked to education levels aswell. Hence the less schooling we give it adversely effects poorer groups

Obviously this is population level we are talking. Loads of people who didn't do well at school are intelligent and loads of folks did well.

[Stairway 2 7]

Curriculum for Excellence was brought in by Labour. Doesn’t get SNP off the hook but blame should be shared.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes massive mistake but when it was brought in we were ahead of England. SNP have been in charge of education for 14 years it's slid down in that time, it's definitely fair to blame them. They have also ran with the policy including almost scrapping p1.

My second is starting p1 this week. All the parents got asked to take a transition class. It was basically an hour and a half of saying there is no wrong answers and don't push your kids too hard in primary let them express themselves however the want. You could see the Asian parents in the group saying nah we'll no be doing that, I was saying the same

[marinello59]

Curriculum for Excellence was brought in by Labour. Doesn’t get SNP off the hook but blame should be shared.


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I don't really care where the blame lies, that's not the important thing. Blame and denial achieves nothing. I just want to see some real leadership being shown by somebody in Government to get things back on track.

[lapsedhibee]

You could see the Asian parents in the group saying nah we'll no be doing that, I was saying the same

Trying to think now if there's any examples of a child brought up by Asian parents who's excelled at educational attainment but has nevertheless turned out very badly, a weak human being and a congenital liar.

[Berwickhibby]

Trying to think now if there's any examples of a child brought up by Asian parents who's excelled at educational attainment but has nevertheless turned out very badly, a weak human being and a congenital liar.

Humza Yousaf :greengrin

[greenlex]

The simple facts are nationwide and not talking about individuals, the more homework or tutoring a child does the better their educational attainment. I think most could fit in half an hour easy enough if they replaced some screen time. My cousins bairns in China do 7am until 6pm then do sports. Bit of a culture shock for our students when they go to uni and see how the Chinese kids study

I also told my kids she could either go to bed at x time or stay up for 30 minutes reading. Worked every time until they started to love to read. As I said I'd read a child that reads every night has a two year advantage on those that don't. I remember the bairns English teacher said without asking she could point out every kid who read at home due to the quality in their writing and knowledge
What if their screen time is reading.:greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

Johnson voters is random shoehorning. Johnson won on brexit and in the brexit vote brexit the less education you had was directly linked to how people voted. People with no A levels or highers overwhelming voted for brexit, those with 4 or more overwhelmingly voted remain. Who'd have thought the more likely you had the tools to gather information the less likely you were to be swindled into believing guff. I bet the same with rioters. Poverty is directly linked to education levels aswell. Hence the less schooling we give it adversely effects poorer groups

Obviously this is population level we are talking. Loads of people who didn't do well at school are intelligent and loads of folks did well.

There's a well linked correlation between public school education and assumed intelligence and trustworthiness, Boris Johnson was neither but the British love to vote for a toff.

[Stairway 2 7]

Trying to think now if there's any examples of a child brought up by Asian parents who's excelled at educational attainment but has nevertheless turned out very badly, a weak human being and a congenital liar.

If you group all Asians with him then you have to group whites with Boris or god forbid Gary Mackay

[Kato]

Trying to think now if there's any examples of a child brought up by Asian parents who's excelled at educational attainment but has nevertheless turned out very badly, a weak human being and a congenital liar.Osama Bin Laden

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[JimBHibees]

Trying to think now if there's any examples of a child brought up by Asian parents who's excelled at educational attainment but has nevertheless turned out very badly, a weak human being and a congenital liar.

Priti Patel

[Stairway 2 7]

Surely no the most PC to make a list of Asians that are educated and bad. Especialy if were grouping bin laden born in Saudi and Patel who is British or does Mandela get grouped with the Southport attacker as boths parents were born in Africa.

[Kato]

Surely no the most PC to make a list of Asians that are educated and bad. Especialy if were grouping bin laden born in Saudi and Patel who is British or does Mandela get grouped with the Southport attacker as boths parents were born in Africa.No one is saying educated Asian people are all bad. That would be un-pc.

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[Stairway 2 7]

No one is saying educated Asian people are all bad. That would be un-pc.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Just some are and let's list them whether they are from China Afghanistan or are UK born

[McD]

Yes massive mistake but when it was brought in we were ahead of England. SNP have been in charge of education for 14 years it's slid down in that time, it's definitely fair to blame them. They have also ran with the policy including almost scrapping p1.

My second is starting p1 this week. All the parents got asked to take a transition class. It was basically an hour and a half of saying there is no wrong answers and don't push your kids too hard in primary let them express themselves however the want. You could see the Asian parents in the group saying nah we'll no be doing that, I was saying the same


My wee one starts P1 this week too, and similar to you, we’ve been told it’s very much like nursery (direct quote from the Head Nursery Leader), and that there are ‘some’ teacher led activities, a lot of ‘pupil led activities’ where the child is given a lot of latitude to do what they want to do, and some activities where the teacher starts them off then it’s over the child.

We already do stuff with her in the evenings etc, and will be continuing that.



I don't really care where the blame lies, that's not the important thing. Blame and denial achieves nothing. I just want to see some real leadership being shown by somebody in Government to get things back on track.


Exactly this. Fix the problem, not the blame

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240810/ccf07ce9fd5a30dafb3dbcf2a5df5cea.jpg
A bit worried if Labour are the solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240810/ccf07ce9fd5a30dafb3dbcf2a5df5cea.jpg
A bit worried if Labour are the solution.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My wife said Labour and the greens were fully with SNP over CE, it won't change with Sarwar in. CE is more a philosophy than a science. The single good thing the tories did was education. It's probably due to luck and then just not changing anything

[Moulin Yarns]

As I understand it, CfE was supposed to bring Scottish education in line with the English system to fit the exams along with the A levels. Might be wrong about that, happy to hear either way

[Andy Bee]

Is it fair to judge a Government on education based on attainment gaps or PISA scores especially when the Government in question has no powers to significantly change the system due to financial constraints from another Government in Westminster? Take Denmark for example, they don't start school until 6 years old, they later tailor education to the pupils needs albeit academically or practically. Pupils have a choice at 16 to go to Efterskool (sp?) which has them take a year away boarding which is partly Government funded and partly parents (10000 Euros) in which they form friendships, team building skills and practical skills. They have folk schools which are permanent boarding and completely Government funded. There's countless different examples of how different countries choose to educate their kids but I don't think it's fair to judge any Government in Scotland on many things because of the limitations they'll always have when having to balance a fixed budget passed down from Westminster. TBF though, I think the SNP have a serious lack of imagination when it comes to education and more so energy.

[Stairway 2 7]

Is it fair to judge a Government on education based on attainment gaps or PISA scores especially when the Government in question has no powers to significantly change the system due to financial constraints from another Government in Westminster? Take Denmark for example, they don't start school until 6 years old, they later tailor education to the pupils needs albeit academically or practically. Pupils have a choice at 16 to go to Efterskool (sp?) which has them take a year away boarding which is partly Government funded and partly parents (10000 Euros) in which they form friendships, team building skills and practical skills. They have folk schools which are permanent boarding and completely Government funded. There's countless different examples of how different countries choose to educate their kids but I don't think it's fair to judge any Government in Scotland on many things because of the limitations they'll always have when having to balance a fixed budget passed down from Westminster. TBF though, I think the SNP have a serious lack of imagination when it comes to education and more so energy.

We get 30% per head more to spend than England through the block grant. We can also chose to educate however we want we have complete power. It was Labour and the idiot Jack Mconnel that brought it in then SNP kept it. Scotland score similar to Denmark now we once were well ahead, England is about a year ahead in maths and science

Between 2012 and 2022, the average Scottish decline has been equivalent to the loss of 8 months of schooling in reading, 16 months in mathematics, and 18 months in science.

[Moulin Yarns]

As a result of decisions at the spring Budget, the Scottish Government are receiving around £295 million in additional funding in 2024-25 through the Barnett formula. According to the Commons Library, the Government have cut the Scottish Government's capital funding by 16% in real terms.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2024-03-19/debates/BB624796-1117-49A4-9E76-42F3DC0A0D24/BlockGrantFunding#:~:text=As%20a%20result%20of%20d ecisions,25%20through%20the%20Barnett%20formula.&text=According%20to%20the%20Commons%20Library,%2D2 3%20to%202024%2D25


The Institute for Fiscal Studies forecasts that there will be a further 16% cut by 2029. After 14 years of austerity, inflation and covid, can the Minister tell me why the Chancellor is taking a hammer to our Scottish public services?


What does this mean for Scottish spending??

[Stairway 2 7]

As a result of decisions at the spring Budget, the Scottish Government are receiving around £295 million in additional funding in 2024-25 through the Barnett formula. According to the Commons Library, the Government have cut the Scottish Government's capital funding by 16% in real terms.

https://hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2024-03-19/debates/BB624796-1117-49A4-9E76-42F3DC0A0D24/BlockGrantFunding#:~:text=As%20a%20result%20of%20d ecisions,25%20through%20the%20Barnett%20formula.&text=According%20to%20the%20Commons%20Library,%2D2 3%20to%202024%2D25


The Institute for Fiscal Studies forecasts that there will be a further 16% cut by 2029. After 14 years of austerity, inflation and covid, can the Minister tell me why the Chancellor is taking a hammer to our Scottish public services?


What does this mean for Scottish spending??

We don't know that was the Tory budget it seems a lot was unfunded. We'll have to see the Labour budget. Most are saying they won't go with cuts but will raise tax, fingers crossed

[Andy Bee]

We get 30% per head more to spend than England through the block grant. We can also chose to educate however we want we have complete power. It was Labour and the idiot Jack Mconnel that brought it in then SNP kept it. Scotland score similar to Denmark now we once were well ahead, England is about a year ahead in maths and science

Between 2012 and 2022, the average Scottish decline has been equivalent to the loss of 8 months of schooling in reading, 16 months in mathematics, and 18 months in science.

Ahhh give me a break, I don't know where you get your figures but Scotland receive around the same spending as Wales and NI with NI £3 a year less and Wales £489 a year less per capita all around £12kpa per capita yet we seem to be at least on par or better than Wales and NI in education, London is £30 a year better off as a region and rightly so as they generate a lot of wealth but that's sadly missed when it comes to Scotland. My question was "Is it fair to judge a Government on education based on attainment gaps or PISA scores especially when the Government in question has no powers to significantly change the system due to financial constraints from another Government in Westminster?

[Stairway 2 7]

Ahhh give me a break, I don't know where you get your figures but Scotland receive around the same spending as Wales and NI with NI £3 a year less and Wales £489 a year less per capita all around £12kpa per capita yet we seem to be at least on par or better than Wales and NI in education, London is £30 a year better off as a region and rightly so as they generate a lot of wealth but that's sadly missed when it comes to Scotland. My question was "Is it fair to judge a Government on education based on attainment gaps or PISA scores especially when the Government in question has no powers to significantly change the system due to financial constraints from another Government in Westminster?

The Barnet formula England gets £9,296 Scotland £11,242 Wales £10,656 NI £11,590. England gets a lot less to spend and Wales famously get shafted.

It's completely irrelevant that we get more though. With the same formula we used to do much better than England. We had the freedom to completely change our education system and have had 15 years of decline since we did. We could completely overhaul it again if we wanted

[Jack]

The Barnet formula England gets £9,296 Scotland £11,242 Wales £10,656 NI £11,590. England gets a lot less to spend and Wales famously get shafted.

It's completely irrelevant that we get more though. With the same formula we used to do much better than England. We had the freedom to completely change our education system and have had 15 years of decline since we did. We could completely overhaul it again if we wanted

The Barnet formula is based on a lot more than just per head of population. Its been in place for decades before devolution and bickering between parliaments.

Much of the difference is down to it being more expensive to provide like for like public services in remote and rural areas. A doctor looking after 500 patients isn't as efficient as one looking after 1,000 patients; a primary school with 6 pupils won't be as cheap to run as one with 600 kids or the costs of providing high school education to kids from small communities who are basically at boarding school.

There's also higher levels of deprivation in comparison to other parts of the UK.

The 'extra' per head of population is already taken care of as far spending is concerned. Unless of course you want to see Highland and island communities suffer in some sort of postcode lottery for services they are entitled to or the deprived being even more deprived.

[Ozyhibby]

The Barnet formula is based on a lot more than just per head of population. Its been in place for decades before devolution and bickering between parliaments.

Much of the difference is down to it being more expensive to provide like for like public services in remote and rural areas. A doctor looking after 500 patients isn't as efficient as one looking after 1,000 patients; a primary school with 6 pupils won't be as cheap to run as one with 600 kids or the costs of providing high school education to kids from small communities who are basically at boarding school.

There's also higher levels of deprivation in comparison to other parts of the UK.

The 'extra' per head of population is already taken care of as far spending is concerned. Unless of course you want to see Highland and island communities suffer in some sort of postcode lottery for services they are entitled to or the deprived being even more deprived.

With a third of the UK land mass to take care and 60% of its coastline there is a fair bit of expense there that the other uk countries don’t have.


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[Stairway 2 7]

The Barnet formula is based on a lot more than just per head of population. Its been in place for decades before devolution and bickering between parliaments.

Much of the difference is down to it being more expensive to provide like for like public services in remote and rural areas. A doctor looking after 500 patients isn't as efficient as one looking after 1,000 patients; a primary school with 6 pupils won't be as cheap to run as one with 600 kids or the costs of providing high school education to kids from small communities who are basically at boarding school.

There's also higher levels of deprivation in comparison to other parts of the UK.

The 'extra' per head of population is already taken care of as far spending is concerned. Unless of course you want to see Highland and island communities suffer in some sort of postcode lottery for services they are entitled to or the deprived being even more deprived.

Scotland and England has similar levels of deprivation whilst Wales has higher than us but receives less from Barnet.
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/11/e012750
Results Of the constituent countries of the UK, Northern Ireland was the most deprived with 37% of the population living in areas in the most deprived fifth of the UK, followed by Wales with 22% of the population living in the most deprived fifth of the UK. England and Scotland had similar levels of deprivation

72% of Scotland live in the central belt now, braveheart is just a movie. 17% of Scotland lives in rural areas 21% in England 32% in Wales.


This is all a misdirect though. On the same budget structure we were ahead of England educationally. We then chose to shake up the system 15 years of falling levels later and our kids are are a years education behind England. "It's blummin England's fault, I read it in the National."

[grunt]

PISA scores are done in England, Scotland is behind England in all the main categories according to the last report.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GUmml_9XsAASTMy?format=jpg&name=medium

PISA scores in England failed to meet the PISA technical standards in two areas as a result of not having cross section of all pupils as a result “the PISA results may therefore be somewhat higher than they would otherwise be”.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GUmml_9XsAASTMy?format=jpg&name=medium

PISA scores in England failed to meet the PISA technical standards in two areas as a result of not having cross section of all pupils as a result “the PISA results may therefore be somewhat higher than they would otherwise be”.

Even don't look at England look at us. We have fallen so far we have lost over a years education in maths and English. If you find it difficult to criticise the SNP for something so obviously poor, then just criticise Labour who thought up the shambles and will probably continue it if they win in two years

[jamie_1875]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GUmml_9XsAASTMy?format=jpg&name=medium

PISA scores in England failed to meet the PISA technical standards in two areas as a result of not having cross section of all pupils as a result “the PISA results may therefore be somewhat higher than they would otherwise be”.

2 out of 82 means it met the standards in 97.56% of the standards and the same report you quote says it "may' actually be totally accurate. But maths isn't my strongest subject so my figures may be wrong.

[Jack]

Scotland and England has similar levels of deprivation whilst Wales has higher than us but receives less from Barnet.
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/11/e012750
Results Of the constituent countries of the UK, Northern Ireland was the most deprived with 37% of the population living in areas in the most deprived fifth of the UK, followed by Wales with 22% of the population living in the most deprived fifth of the UK. England and Scotland had similar levels of deprivation

72% of Scotland live in the central belt now, braveheart is just a movie. 17% of Scotland lives in rural areas 21% in England 32% in Wales.


This is all a misdirect though. On the same budget structure we were ahead of England educationally. We then chose to shake up the system 15 years of falling levels later and our kids are are a years education behind England. "It's blummin England's fault, I read it in the National."

Which islands would you pull the plug on?

[Stairway 2 7]

Which islands would you pull the plug on?

Great fact based come back. You said we're more deprived so we get 30% more money, we aren't. You said we're more rural living, we're much less. The vast majority of Scots live close to the central belt. There's only about 100k Scots that live on islands and many travel themselves to get amenities, like oban high caters for many islands. If you think that 100k are getting all of the 30% extra of all 5.5 million then they must be living like Qataris

[Jack]

Great fact based come back. You said we're more deprived so we get 30% more money, we aren't. You said we're more rural living, we're much less. The vast majority of Scots live close to the central belt. There's only about 100k Scots that live on islands and many travel themselves to get amenities, like oban high caters for many islands. If you think that 100k are getting all of the 30% extra of all 5.5 million then they must be living like Qataris

Thankfully the politicians of all hues over the decades disagree with your fag packet calculations and agreed that higher spending per head of population is needed in Scotland to keep public services on a comparative level with other parts of the UK. Even the torys!

[Stairway 2 7]

Thankfully the politicians of all hues over the decades disagree with your fag packet calculations and agreed that higher spending per head of population is needed in Scotland to keep public services on a comparative level with other parts of the UK. Even the torys!

The census don't do fag packet calculations. Welsh government complain yearly about Barnet being a farce, the are poorer and more rural than Scotland but get less.

Once again I'll say what has this got to do with the subject. Scotland still had the same funding system as now when we were so far ahead. We changed the education system and results plummeted, we could change back if we wanted as level of funding has nothing to do with it

[grunt]

2 out of 82 means it met the standards in 97.56% of the standards and the same report you quote says it "may' actually be totally accurate. But maths isn't my strongest subject so my figures may be wrong.Indeed.

[jamie_1875]

Indeed.

Are they? Meeting 80 out of 82 of the technical standards is a pretty high %.

[grunt]

Are they? Meeting 80 out of 82 of the technical standards is a pretty high %.
Depends on the standard.

[Moulin Yarns]

Scotland and England has similar levels of deprivation whilst Wales has higher than us but receives less from Barnet.
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/11/e012750
Results Of the constituent countries of the UK, Northern Ireland was the most deprived with 37% of the population living in areas in the most deprived fifth of the UK, followed by Wales with 22% of the population living in the most deprived fifth of the UK. England and Scotland had similar levels of deprivation

72% of Scotland live in the central belt now, braveheart is just a movie. 17% of Scotland lives in rural areas 21% in England 32% in Wales.


This is all a misdirect though. On the same budget structure we were ahead of England educationally. We then chose to shake up the system 15 years of falling levels later and our kids are are a years education behind England. "It's blummin England's fault, I read it in the National."

In 2020 the mid-year population estimate for England was 56.6 million, of which*9.7 million*(17.1%) lived in Rural areas and 46.9 million (82.9%) lived in Urban areas. In absolute terms, Lower Super Output Area (LSOA) level Rural population increased from 9.1 million in 2011 to 9.7 million in 2020.

In 2021,*12% of Scottish population was estimated to live in accessible rural areas and 5% in remote rural areas. A further 9% were estimated to live in accessible small towns and 3% in remote small towns. The majority (72%) live in urban areas ( NRS , 2021).


Rural population very similar in England and Scotland.

[StevieC]

The Barnet formula England gets £9,296 Scotland £11,242 Wales £10,656 NI £11,590. England gets a lot less to spend and Wales famously get shafted.

It's completely irrelevant that we get more though. With the same formula we used to do much better than England. We had the freedom to completely change our education system and have had 15 years of decline since we did. We could completely overhaul it again if we wanted

One of the biggest spends on education in local authority, apart from teachers wages, is the transport costs to get children to school that are more than 2-3 miles from the school.

In Perthshire, given the spread of pupils and number of rural schools, that’s a substantial strain on the education budget.

[Moulin Yarns]

One of the biggest spends on education in local authority, apart from teachers wages, is the transport costs to get children to school that are more than 2-3 miles from the school.

In Perthshire, given the spread of pupils and number of rural schools, that’s a substantial strain on the education budget.

Cheers stevie, 5th and 6th year pupils in Pitlochry all have to go to Aberfeldy, breadalbane, and the city dwellers just don't understand the problems that exist in rural areas.

[Stairway 2 7]

In 2020 the mid-year population estimate for England was 56.6 million, of which*9.7 million*(17.1%) lived in Rural areas and 46.9 million (82.9%) lived in Urban areas. In absolute terms, Lower Super Output Area (LSOA) level Rural population increased from 9.1 million in 2011 to 9.7 million in 2020.

In 2021,*12% of Scottish population was estimated to live in accessible rural areas and 5% in remote rural areas. A further 9% were estimated to live in accessible small towns and 3% in remote small towns. The majority (72%) live in urban areas ( NRS , 2021).


Rural population very similar in England and Scotland.

Yep your in agreement Scotland is not more rural than England. There is obviously different methodology
https://lordslibrary.parliament.uk/fact-file-rural-economy/
How many people live in rural areas?
A fifth of the population of England (20.9%) live in local authorities defined as predominantly rural.
Less than a fifth (17%) of the population of Scotland live in rural areas.
The proportion of the population of Wales living in rural areas is estimated as under one third (32.8%).
In Northern Ireland, 36% of people live in rural areas.



The other countries will have to transport these rural kids too. The point for the 10th time though is we don't need to mention England just talk about us. We had Barnet 15 years ago the only thing that changed is we overhauled the education system. We were free to change it and we did how we wanted to. Our education standards have consistently decreased. Kids are now getting the equivalent of well over a years less education in maths and science by the time they finish school.

[Stairway 2 7]

Cheers stevie, 5th and 6th year pupils in Pitlochry all have to go to Aberfeldy, breadalbane, and the city dwellers just don't understand the problems that exist in rural areas.

But we have less rural dwellers than 15 years ago so it's irrelevant, us compared to ourselves are vastly poorer educationally.

[Moulin Yarns]

But we have less rural dwellers than 15 years ago so it's irrelevant, us compared to ourselves are vastly poorer educationally.

And you dismiss people who maybe can't get to school in winter! Try getting from upper Glen Lyon to Aberfeldy in January. 30 miles, over an hour in good condition in ,probably double that in January but it's irrelevant. You are ignorant of anything outside your comfortable bubble. Upper Glen Lyon is as far west as paisley as a guide!!

Also ignoring the loads of new houses built outside of established towns. Come up and I'll give you a tour.

[Stairway 2 7]

And you dismiss people who maybe can't get to school in winter! Try getting from upper Glen Lyon to Aberfeldy in January. 30 miles, over an hour in good condition in ,probably double that in January but it's irrelevant. You are ignorant of anything outside your comfortable bubble.

Haha this is the most random post I've seen on here and that's going some, brilliant. I have no idea what getting through Aberfeldy in January has to do with Scotland changing it's education system 15 years ago. Bairns were going to and from Aberfeldy last year and 15 years ago the only difference now is their curriculum is rubbish.

[Moulin Yarns]

Haha this is the most random post I've seen on here and that's going some, brilliant. I have no idea what getting through Aberfeldy in January has to do with Scotland changing it's education system 15 years ago. Bairns were going to and from Aberfeldy last year and 15 years ago the only difference now is their curriculum is rubbish.

You should read the post I was replying to!!

Stevie is a Councillor, I will believe his understanding before someone with no lived experience.

[Stairway 2 7]

You should read the post I was replying to!!

Stevie is a Councillor, I will believe his understanding before someone with no lived experience.

I said it's irrelevant not they are irrelevant, that would be utterly ludicrous. It's irrelevant to the discussion. We had rural people 15 years ago rural people now, we had Barnet 15 years ago Barnet now. They are a constant so not relevant to the decline in education standards. Everything has stayed similar yet our standards have dramatically fallen as has the attainment gap between well off and most deprived.

[grunt]

We get 30% per head more to spend than England through the block grant.


It's completely irrelevant that we get more though.:greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

:greengrin

Yeah because at first we were comparing us against England, then the deflection happened blaming rural settings or how they recorded their results. So I said let's not deflect let's look at us vs us. Nothing has changed whether Barnet or how rural we are. We have consistently decreased our performance the last 15 years, not a small amount either. Labour brought in this mess and SNP continued the madness

[Moulin Yarns]

I wonder who first mentioned rural population figures 🤔

Even though the English figures are wrong.



Scotland and England has similar levels of deprivation whilst Wales has higher than us but receives less from Barnet.
https://bmjopen.bmj.com/content/6/11/e012750
Results Of the constituent countries of the UK, Northern Ireland was the most deprived with 37% of the population living in areas in the most deprived fifth of the UK, followed by Wales with 22% of the population living in the most deprived fifth of the UK. England and Scotland had similar levels of deprivation

72% of Scotland live in the central belt now, braveheart is just a movie. 17% of Scotland lives in rural areas 21% in England 32% in Wales.


This is all a misdirect though. On the same budget structure we were ahead of England educationally. We then chose to shake up the system 15 years of falling levels later and our kids are are a years education behind England. "It's blummin England's fault, I read it in the National."

[Stairway 2 7]

I wonder who first mentioned rural population figures 🤔

Even though the English figures are wrong.

Because I still believe we are doing far worse than England and we can't blame rural populations as we have similar amounts as you said.

If people aren't wanting Scotland against England which is definitely fair then the fairest way is Scotland compared to Scotland. We've consistently dropped in the last 15 years and the attainment gap is growing. Have you an opinion on the subject the drop in these areas

[grunt]

If people aren't wanting Scotland against England which is definitely fair then the fairest way is Scotland compared to Scotland. We've consistently dropped in the last 15 years and the attainment gap is growing. Have you an opinion on the subject the drop in these areas
Just so we know what we're talking about, can you provide the numbers on this please?

[Stairway 2 7]

Just so we know what we're talking about, can you provide the numbers on this please?

Here's a graph of the steady decline in the pisa rankings, the attainment gap growing its in the article above or Google. Some might not be bothered that were giving the equivalent of more than a years less education to our children but having a child about to start school it's important to me

[Stairway 2 7]

For a week Musk has pretty much exclusively been tweeting about two tier Keir.. UK being 1984 and Humza Yousaf being a racist. It's actually a disgrace. This is the person Sunak welcomed to Downing Street this year and called a great person. Humza says he might take legal action and Musk has continued anyway like a spoilt idiotic child


Humza Yousaf
@HumzaYousaf
·
Aug 11
Elon Musk is a dangerous race baiter who must be held to account for his actions.

I can't think what it is that upsets him so much about a Brown, Muslim, progressive politician? 🤔 But his billions won't stop me calling out his support for the far-right

Elon Musk

@elonmusk
·
20h
He’s obviously super racist against white people. I dare that ****bag to sue me. Go ahead, make my day …

Legal discovery will show that however big a racist he’s been in public communications, he is vastly worse in private communications

[grunt]

Here's a graph of the steady decline in the pisa rankings
Struggling to read that graph unfortunately. Where did you get it from?

[Hibrandenburg]

Because I still believe we are doing far worse than England and we can't blame rural populations as we have similar amounts as you said.

If people aren't wanting Scotland against England which is definitely fair then the fairest way is Scotland compared to Scotland. We've consistently dropped in the last 15 years and the attainment gap is growing. Have you an opinion on the subject the drop in these areas

There's rural and then there’s rural.

[Moulin Yarns]

There's rural and then there’s rural.

In England there are 2 classifications, Urban and Rural, in Scotland there are 8 classifications based on urban rural and remoteness. Pitlochry is classed as a remote rural area. Apparantly that's irrelevant to the cost of education provision.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-government-urban-rural-classification-2020/pages/2/

[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/unite-suspends-bin-strikes-after-improved-pay-deal

Unite calls of strike, hope the others follow suit.

[Stairway 2 7]

Struggling to read that graph unfortunately. Where did you get it from?

They can be found multiple places as well as on the pisa and Scottish gov websites here's a breakdown of 14 years. You can discount the other countries if you want but 40% of Scottish schools take part so a good assessment of where we are vs ourselves

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-67580173.amp

Scotland's score in the 2022 Pisa assessment for reading was 493, down from 504 in 2018 and 526 in 2000 when the Pisa study started.

The reading performance was above the OECD average of 476 points and higher than 24 other countries.

Scotland's reading score is ahead of Wales (466) and Northern Ireland (485) but behind England (496).

For maths the score in 2022 was 471, which is just below the OECD average of 472 points.

However, Scotland's score is down from 489 in 2018 and 491 in 2015.

This is ahead of Wales (466), but behind Northern Ireland (475) and England (492).

In science, Scotland's score was 483 points, below the 490 result in 2018 and 497 in 2015.

This is better than Wales (473) but behind Northern Ireland (488) and England (503)

[Stairway 2 7]

In England there are 2 classifications, Urban and Rural, in Scotland there are 8 classifications based on urban rural and remoteness. Pitlochry is classed as a remote rural area. Apparantly that's irrelevant to the cost of education provision.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-government-urban-rural-classification-2020/pages/2/

Instead of trying to work out what is rural and what's not have you an opinion on Scotland versus itself, as Scotland hasn't got more rural in 14 years of educational decline

[Moulin Yarns]

Instead of trying to work out what is rural and what's not have you an opinion on Scotland versus itself, as Scotland hasn't got more rural in 14 years of educational decline

The financial burden on local authorities has got worse??

Edit: StevieC is vice-convener of the Education Committee at PKC.

[Stairway 2 7]

There's rural and then there’s rural.

But how rural the nations are hasn't changed its been a near constant in 14 years. So why were we above previously and dropped when CfE was introduced.

[Stairway 2 7]

The financial burden on local authorities has got worse??

Your trying to find anything to fit not blaming the obvious. The burden hasn't got worse in a constant level in 14 years. It's been similar in all nations, England and Wales and NI rose steadily from 2012 to 2018 when we did the opposite so that doesn't make sense

[McD]

Your trying to find anything to fit not blaming the obvious. The burden hasn't got worse in a constant level in 14 years. It's been similar in all nations, England and Wales and NI rose steadily from 2012 to 2018 when we did the opposite so that doesn't make sense


Mate, you’ve made your point clearly, and repeatedly. Some people just don’t want to see the truth

[Berwickhibby]

For a week Musk has pretty much exclusively been tweeting about two tier Keir.. UK being 1984 and Humza Yousaf being a racist. It's actually a disgrace. This is the person Sunak welcomed to Downing Street this year and called a great person. Humza says he might take legal action and Musk has continued anyway like a spoilt idiotic child


Humza Yousaf
@HumzaYousaf
·
Aug 11
Elon Musk is a dangerous race baiter who must be held to account for his actions.

I can't think what it is that upsets him so much about a Brown, Muslim, progressive politician? 🤔 But his billions won't stop me calling out his support for the far-right

Elon Musk

@elonmusk
·
20h
He’s obviously super racist against white people. I dare that ****bag to sue me. Go ahead, make my day …

Legal discovery will show that however big a racist he’s been in public communications, he is vastly worse in private communications

Proof positive that I made the correct decision coming of X two self serving idiots trying to remain relevant….the platform is full of utter dross

[Moulin Yarns]

Mate, you’ve made your point clearly, and repeatedly. Some people just don’t want to see the truth

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg798zljpy3o.amp

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24442422.housing-shortages-drive-teacher-shortages-scotland/

https://www.scotsman.com/education/primary-teachers-asked-to-plug-gaps-in-scottish-secondary-schools-amid-staff-shortages-4629654

Target areas for staff shortages, particularly in secondary subjects, cover a vast sweep of Scotland beyond the Central Belt.

The area includes Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Argyll and Bute, the Western Isles, Highland, Moray, Orkney and Shetland. These local authorities have a combined total of 434 rural schools. For the statisticians out there, this adds up to 74% of all schools in the Northern Alliance area. Looking at the bigger picture, 51% of Scotland’s rural schools are in the Northern Alliance area.








The Scottish government has repeatedly expressed its frustration that*teacher numbers fell in 2022 and in 2023, despite councils receiving £145.5 million to invest in school staff. Ms Gilruth had threatened that some of the funding could be withheld from the 15 councils where teacher numbers had fallen



I'm sensing a theme of teacher shortages in rural remote areas. I spoke to a biology teacher on Saturday in Aberfeldy, they have to teach biology, chemistry and maths due to a shortage.

Less teachers means less lessons which inevitably leads to poorer results.

[McD]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cg798zljpy3o.amp

https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24442422.housing-shortages-drive-teacher-shortages-scotland/

https://www.scotsman.com/education/primary-teachers-asked-to-plug-gaps-in-scottish-secondary-schools-amid-staff-shortages-4629654

Target areas for staff shortages, particularly in secondary subjects, cover a vast sweep of Scotland beyond the Central Belt.

The area includes Aberdeen, Aberdeenshire, Argyll and Bute, the Western Isles, Highland, Moray, Orkney and Shetland. These local authorities have a combined total of 434 rural schools. For the statisticians out there, this adds up to 74% of all schools in the Northern Alliance area. Looking at the bigger picture, 51% of Scotland’s rural schools are in the Northern Alliance area.








The Scottish government has repeatedly expressed its frustration that*teacher numbers fell in 2022 and in 2023, despite councils receiving £145.5 million to invest in school staff. Ms Gilruth had threatened that some of the funding could be withheld from the 15 councils where teacher numbers had fallen



I'm sensing a theme of teacher shortages in rural remote areas. I spoke to a biology teacher on Saturday in Aberfeldy, they have to teach biology, chemistry and maths due to a shortage.

Less teachers means less lessons which inevitably leads to poorer results.



Genuine question, are there studies that show the breakdown of results across the various areas of Scotland? I’d imagine there is but I don’t know where to look.

To take your point about rural areas being the key factor, I’d expect the analysis to show that rural scholastic results are significantly worse than central belt, thus dragging the score down year on year.

[Moulin Yarns]

Genuine question, are there studies that show the breakdown of results across the various areas of Scotland? I’d imagine there is but I don’t know where to look.

To take your point about rural areas being the key factor, I’d expect the analysis to show that rural scholastic results are significantly worse than central belt, thus dragging the score down year on year.

https://datamap-scotland.co.uk/2024/05/scottish-secondary-school-league-tables/

It's a start. All central belt and 3 Aberdeen makes up the top 25 schools.

[marinello59]

https://datamap-scotland.co.uk/2024/05/scottish-secondary-school-league-tables/

It's a start. All central belt and 3 Aberdeen makes up the top 25 schools.

The schools in the three most affluent areas of Aberdeen.

And three schools from the same City in the bottom 50. All from the least affluent areas.

Does that bring us neatly back to the actual topic raised, the attainment gap?

[Stairway 2 7]

Genuine question, are there studies that show the breakdown of results across the various areas of Scotland? I’d imagine there is but I don’t know where to look.

To take your point about rural areas being the key factor, I’d expect the analysis to show that rural scholastic results are significantly worse than central belt, thus dragging the score down year on year.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/13326405/scotland-exam-pass-rates-local-authority-postcode-lottery/amp/

Comhairle Nan Eilean Siar Outer Hebrides is the 3rd highest attainment level in all of Scotland, they did very well
Perth and Kinross 5th
Shetland 8th
Orkney 9th
Edinburgh 12th
Glasgow 23rd
Aberdeen 26th
Midlothian away down in 29th

[McD]

https://datamap-scotland.co.uk/2024/05/scottish-secondary-school-league-tables/

It's a start. All central belt and 3 Aberdeen makes up the top 25 schools.



Thank you for sharing that.


I could be misreading it, but Map 1 shows the highest performing catchment areas (in dark green), which appears to be pretty widespread, including areas that I would have thought constituted rural, such as western highlands. Certainly isn’t just central belt and Aberdeen, although are well represented in the high performers. Apologies if I’ve misread that. I’ve tried to attach the image for reference.


I do think that S27 still has a very valid point about how our school children are performing, and the dramatic change compared to the previous curriculum

28098

[McD]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/scottish-news/13326405/scotland-exam-pass-rates-local-authority-postcode-lottery/amp/

Comhairle Nan Eilean Siar Outer Hebrides is the 3rd highest attainment level in all of Scotland, they did very well
Perth and Kinross 5th
Shetland 8th
Orkney 9th
Edinburgh 12th
Glasgow 23rd
Aberdeen 26th
Midlothian away down in 29th


Thanks for sharing :aok:

[marinello59]

Looks like the Green's think the SNP Government are a wee bit sneaky.

https://greens.scot/news/snp-hold-shameless-secret-meeting-with-israeli-ambassador#:~:text=In%20a%20report%20by%20The,and% 20culture'%20on%208%20August.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm not even angry at this as it's that hilarious, verging on a plot from a modern day series of Porridge. Scottish Prison Service and Scot Gov ended a scheme to give prisoners encrypted mobiles to phone people as they were easily hacked, causing 8000 security breaches. Obviously not funny is the drug dealing, home fire bombing and witness intimidation it helped facilitate

https://12ft.io/proxy

Humza Yousaf, the Scottish justice secretary, said: “It is important that prisoners and their families are supported while the current prison visit restrictions are in place. Providing a mobile phone for prisoners to contact their families, along with a range of other actions we are taking, will help support the mental health and wellbeing of those in custody.

“We will make sure that the use of mobile phones in prisons is done in a way which is practical and safe — for those in custody, their families, and those in the wider community.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm not even angry at this as it's that hilarious, verging on a plot from a modern day series of Porridge. Scottish Prison Service and Scot Gov ended a scheme to give prisoners encrypted mobiles to phone people as they were easily hacked, causing 8000 security breaches. Obviously not funny is the drug dealing, home fire bombing and witness intimidation it helped facilitate

https://12ft.io/proxy

Humza Yousaf, the Scottish justice secretary, said: “It is important that prisoners and their families are supported while the current prison visit restrictions are in place. Providing a mobile phone for prisoners to contact their families, along with a range of other actions we are taking, will help support the mental health and wellbeing of those in custody.

“We will make sure that the use of mobile phones in prisons is done in a way which is practical and safe — for those in custody, their families, and those in the wider community.

We need massive prison reform which will never happen but I’m not against prisoners having access to phones. I’d move a lot of them onto tags and let home as well. Or at least allowed out during the day to work.
We are kidding ourselves on if we think they don’t have phones and drugs in prison already anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

We need massive prison reform which will never happen but I’m not against prisoners having access to phones. I’d move a lot of them onto tags and let home as well. Or at least allowed out during the day to work.
We are kidding ourselves on if we think they don’t have phones and drugs in prison already anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Different from they probably have phones to giving them access or should we just give them spice and gear if they want as they will probably have it anyway. Yes less should be in prison, labour appointing Timpson gives me hope. But some should be in prison and some shouldn't have unrestricted access to phones or they will intimidate witnesses and order fire bombings. The fact we accommodated that is appalling. The system now with monitored landlines is the correct system

[marinello59]

I'm not even angry at this as it's that hilarious, verging on a plot from a modern day series of Porridge. Scottish Prison Service and Scot Gov ended a scheme to give prisoners encrypted mobiles to phone people as they were easily hacked, causing 8000 security breaches. Obviously not funny is the drug dealing, home fire bombing and witness intimidation it helped facilitate

https://12ft.io/proxy

Humza Yousaf, the Scottish justice secretary, said: “It is important that prisoners and their families are supported while the current prison visit restrictions are in place. Providing a mobile phone for prisoners to contact their families, along with a range of other actions we are taking, will help support the mental health and wellbeing of those in custody.

“We will make sure that the use of mobile phones in prisons is done in a way which is practical and safe — for those in custody, their families, and those in the wider community.

Well meaning from Yousaf as you would expect, a thoroughly decent man. Also a disaster from Yousaf as you would expect. What did he do next? :greengrin

[grunt]

Looks like the Green's think the SNP Government are a wee bit sneaky.
Oh we're paying attention to what the Scottish Greens say now, are we? I thought they'd been written off as not worthy to be in Government.

[marinello59]

Oh we're paying attention to what the Scottish Greens say now, are we? I thought they'd been written off as not worthy to be in Government.

I made no comment, I just copied the link. I love a wee bit of post-divorce argy-bargy. :greengrin

Just for the record I take an interest in what all Parties say whether I agree with them or not. What can I say, I'm a geek. :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

SNP confirm they will also means test the winter fuel payment. It was totally independent this year and was to be taken out of the Scottish budget

The correct decision imo the triple lock increase will offset it anyway

[Andy Bee]

SNP confirm they will also means test the winter fuel payment. It was totally independent this year and was to be taken out of the Scottish budget

The correct decision imo the triple lock increase will offset it anyway

I feel far more comfortable now this sounds all good. Erm, so what does the "triple lock" bring the pension up to in monetary terms? Pensioners on the basic pension can now chill (no pun intended)? or are they still 38% below the European average? Asking for a really old soon to be cold friend.

[JimBHibees]

I feel far more comfortable now this sounds all good. Erm, so what does the "triple lock" bring the pension up to in monetary terms? Pensioners on the basic pension can now chill (no pun intended)? or are they still 38% below the European average? Asking for a really old soon to be cold friend.

Didn’t realise that was the case re pensions and comparisons with other countries? How depressing? Have they ever recovered from Brown raiding them

[Stairway 2 7]

We don't get 38% lower than the European average for a kick off.

Some charts on Facebook might say this but they aren't like for like comparisons, some countries like France and Germany it depends a lot on your working pension. France state pension depends on what job you had and how much you put in their lowest is 3k per yea6 lower than ours but their highest is 8k more. I'd rather our system that the least off is better cared for.

If your comparing us with somewhere like France you'd have to include workplace pensions into our total.

A full fact article on how you can't really compare European pensions
https://fullfact.org/online/uk-france-germany-pension-comparison/



27% of pensioners have £1 million in assets so why should it be universal. 80% own their own home, compared to 50% under 67. 10% of pensioners are in poverty which is terrible
but that's compared to 24% working age and 30% of kids.

At least the triple lock will offset the loss where as Labour not committing to child payment will hurt people much more.

Pretty much all of the 20% of pensioners who don't own a home or have dependents or private pension will still get the payment. The state pension is going from £11,502.40 to 12,150 next year, take away housing costs from that and you'll be close to the equivalent of full time on the living wage. Although the average mean UK pensioners Income is £18,200

[Andy Bee]

Didn’t realise that was the case re pensions and comparisons with other countries? How depressing? Have they ever recovered from Brown raiding them

Ahh, I'm probably being dramatic Jim, once these kickass new interconnects are installed pensioners up here will benefit from all this new clean green plentiful supply of green energy, you know, the ones that will supply up to 7.5m homes south of Cumbria. You live south of Cumbria right?

[Andy Bee]

We don't get 38% lower than the European average for a kick off.

Some charts on Facebook might say this but they aren't like for like comparisons, some countries like France and Germany it depends a lot on your working pension. France state pension depends on what job you had and how much you put in their lowest is 3k per yea6 lower than ours but their highest is 8k more. I'd rather our system that the least off is better cared for.

If your comparing us with somewhere like France you'd have to include workplace pensions into our total.

A full fact article on how you can't really compare European pensions
https://fullfact.org/online/uk-france-germany-pension-comparison/



27% of pensioners have £1 million in assets so why should it be universal. 80% own their own home, compared to 50% under 67. 10% of pensioners are in poverty which is terrible
but that's compared to 24% working age and 30% of kids.

At least the triple lock will offset the loss where as Labour not committing to child payment will hurt people much more.

Pretty much all of the 20% of pensioners who don't own a home or have dependents or private pension will still get the payment. The state pension is going from £11,502.40 to 12,150 next year, take away housing costs from that and you'll be close to the equivalent of full time on the living wage. Although the average mean UK pensioners Income is £18,200

The UK pension is ****, that's a fact. You can Google to your hearts content, spraf all the percentages you like but the UK pension is far far below the minimum wage. In an energy rich country we're going to have pensioners keeping the heating off because they can't afford it, you comfortable with that?

[Jack]

The state pension is going from £11,502.40 to 12,150 next year, take away housing costs from that and you'll be close to the equivalent of full time on the living wage. Although the average mean UK pensioners Income is £18,200

Why take away housing costs?

[marinello59]

Oh we're paying attention to what the Scottish Greens say now, are we? I thought they'd been written off as not worthy to be in Government.

Are we paying attention to SNP members ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyn63rq8n2o

[Moulin Yarns]

The UK pension is ****, that's a fact. You can Google to your hearts content, spraf all the percentages you like but the UK pension is far far below the minimum wage. In an energy rich country we're going to have pensioners keeping the heating off because they can't afford it, you comfortable with that?

My wife was talking to a friend, a widow whose husband was a safety officer on oil rigs, she was complaining that her state pension will take her into the 40% tax bracket. Now there's a problem many would like!

[Stairway 2 7]

Why take away housing costs?

Because almost all who don't own there home will be getting the allowance still. 80% of pensioners own there home. The average pensioners in the uk takes home £18k per year and 80% don't have housing costs. The pension is going up £700 this year so the loss will be mitigated at least. Scot gov has a budget and they need to choose what to spend the available money on. As I say 10% of pensioners in poverty is terrible, but when 25% of working age are in poverty and 30% of kids I'd prefer the money there. A quarter of pensioners being millionaires says its ludicrous that it isn't means tested, SNP are spot on imo

[Moulin Yarns]

Standard life take on the state pension

Is the State Pension likely to be enough?

Probably not. Even with the rise*coming in April,*a full new State Pension would be just over £11,500 a year. Keep in mind that the*Retirement Living Standards*suggest a single person would need £12,800 a year to cover just a ‘minimum’ retirement lifestyle.

The reality is there’s a significant gap between what you get from the State Pension and*what you may actually need or want in retirement. The State Pension alone will only cover a very basic lifestyle and, because it only starts in your late 60s, won’t help to support you if you want to retire earlier. So it should only be a part of your overall retirement plan. Also bear in mind that it is subject to tax.


Which consumers magazine says for 2025-26


How much could the state pension be worth next year?

Let’s presume the state pension increase is 5.7% (it may end up being more or less, depending on wage growth for May to July).*

Currently, the full level of the new single-tier state pension is £221.20 a week or £11,502.40 a year. *

If it were to rise by 5.7%, it would be worth £233.80 a week (rounded to the nearest 5p) or £12,157.60 a year, which is a rise of over £655.

Currently, the basic state pension is £169.50 a week in 2024-25 (£8,814 a year). This would increase to £179.15 a week (rounded to the nearest 5p) or £9,315.80 per year – a rise of £501.


£700 increase??

[grunt]

Are we paying attention to SNP members ?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clyn63rq8n2o
Frankly? No.

That article is just BBC Lockhart scraping in rubbish bins, trawling social media for people who are upset with Robertson. In today's angry antisocial media world it's rare to find unanimous praise on anyone's actions, very easy to find angry voices.

Personally I'd rather our Government does speak to other diplomats, even evil Israeli ones. If we want to make progress on world peace we need to be talking to each other.

[Stairway 2 7]

Standard life take on the state pension

Is the State Pension likely to be enough?

Probably not. Even with the rise*coming in April,*a full new State Pension would be just over £11,500 a year. Keep in mind that the*Retirement Living Standards*suggest a single person would need £12,800 a year to cover just a ‘minimum’ retirement lifestyle.

The reality is there’s a significant gap between what you get from the State Pension and*what you may actually need or want in retirement. The State Pension alone will only cover a very basic lifestyle and, because it only starts in your late 60s, won’t help to support you if you want to retire earlier. So it should only be a part of your overall retirement plan. Also bear in mind that it is subject to tax.


Which consumers magazine says for 2025-26


How much could the state pension be worth next year?

Let’s presume the state pension increase is 5.7% (it may end up being more or less, depending on wage growth for May to July).*

Currently, the full level of the new single-tier state pension is £221.20 a week or £11,502.40 a year. *

If it were to rise by 5.7%, it would be worth £233.80 a week (rounded to the nearest 5p) or £12,157.60 a year, which is a rise of over £655.

Currently, the basic state pension is £169.50 a week in 2024-25 (£8,814 a year). This would increase to £179.15 a week (rounded to the nearest 5p) or £9,315.80 per year – a rise of £501.


£700 increase??

£655 if your feeling pedantic to anyone on the full pension, regardless the rises next year will cover the loss of the fuel benefit. The best thing the tories did was make auto enrollment into a work pension though. Britain is an aging population so the pension money will be increasingly difficult to find.

[Moulin Yarns]

£655 if your feeling pedantic to anyone on the full pension, regardless the rises next year will cover the loss of the fuel benefit. The best thing the tories did was make auto enrollment into a work pension though. Britain is an aging population so the pension money will be increasingly difficult to find.

The difference is almost a month pension, I dare anyone to say that they would be happy with only 11 months pay!!

I'm also going to believe finance company and consumer organisations that the pension isn't enough to do more than just get by.

Not forgetting older pensioner will only get £501 increase, so the majority.

[Jack]

Because almost all who don't own there home will be getting the allowance still. 80% of pensioners own there home. The average pensioners in the uk takes home £18k per year and 80% don't have housing costs. The pension is going up £700 this year so the loss will be mitigated at least. Scot gov has a budget and they need to choose what to spend the available money on. As I say 10% of pensioners in poverty is terrible, but when 25% of working age are in poverty and 30% of kids I'd prefer the money there. A quarter of pensioners being millionaires says its ludicrous that it isn't means tested, SNP are spot on imo

So what you're saying, if I'm understanding you correctly, is that pensioners who made sacrifices to pay for their homes are being penalised.

And surely the pension increase is there to cover the cost of living increase and in no way mitigates the loss of this allowance. What you're saying is like asking everyone who gets a wage increase this year to stump up another £300 for their heating.

[Stairway 2 7]

The difference is almost a month pension, I dare anyone to say that they would be happy with only 11 months pay!!

I'm also going to believe finance company and consumer organisations that the pension isn't enough to do more than just get by.

Not forgetting older pensioner will only get £501 increase, so the majority.

It's not a month 655 is 45 difference of 700. It's going up by 655 for the full pension next year £12.150. The mean average a pensioner gets is now 18,148 that will go up with the increase

[Stairway 2 7]

So what you're saying, if I'm understanding you correctly, is that pensioners who made sacrifices to pay for their homes are being penalised.

And surely the pension increase is there to cover the cost of living increase and in no way mitigates the loss of this allowance. What you're saying is like asking everyone who gets a wage increase this year to stump up another £300 for their heating.

They are not getting penalised they just shouldn't get this benefit. They don't have housing costs. They can also sell the asset it's a hording of wealth when 30% of kids are in poverty and the average age someone lives with their parents is nearing 30.

Why should 27% of pensioners who have over £1million in assets get an extra benefit.

[marinello59]

Frankly? No.

That article is just BBC Lockhart scraping in rubbish bins, trawling social media for people who are upset with Robertson. In today's angry antisocial media world it's rare to find unanimous praise on anyone's actions, very easy to find angry voices.

Personally I'd rather our Government does speak to other diplomats, even evil Israeli ones. If we want to make progress on world peace we need to be talking to each other.

It has been reported on by multiple sources, I don’t think your default shoot the messenger position works on this one. Dismissing the likes of Kevin Stewart , Ivan McKee, Elena Whitman and Emma Roddick as angry social media voices doesn’t really hold water either.

You may agree with the SNP Government’s decision to discuss areas of mutual interest with Israel whilst they continue their assault on Gaza. But would you agree that to do so whilst so many are asking for sanctions against Israel suggests this move has to be seen, at best, as tone deaf?

[Moulin Yarns]

It's not a month 655 is 45 difference of 700. It's going up by 655 for the full pension next year £12.150. The mean average a pensioner gets is now 18,148 that will go up with the increase

You are assuming every pensioner has other income to make it to the average. I have workplace pension but was contracted out of SERPS so don't get the full state pension. I think a lot of people are the same. The £18,148 is a red herring when the discussion is about state pension. Any pensioner who retired before 2016 doesn't get £12,150.

[Moulin Yarns]

They are not getting penalised they just shouldn't get this benefit. They don't have housing costs. They can also sell the asset it's a hording of wealth when 30% of kids are in poverty and the average age someone lives with their parents is nearing 30.

Why should 27% of pensioners who have over £1million in assets get an extra benefit.

What do you mean by "they don't have housing costs "? And what is your source that 27% of pensioners have over £1 million in assets??

[Hibrandenburg]

They are not getting penalised they just shouldn't get this benefit. They don't have housing costs. They can also sell the asset it's a hording of wealth when 30% of kids are in poverty and the average age someone lives with their parents is nearing 30.

Why should 27% of pensioners who have over £1million in assets get an extra benefit.

Because they've worked for it, planned for it and probably not went to Benidorm every year to save money to buy their property. Why should those who had the foresight to plan for old age be asked to foot the bill for those who don't?

[Jack]

They are not getting penalised they just shouldn't get this benefit. They don't have housing costs. They can also sell the asset it's a hording of wealth when 30% of kids are in poverty and the average age someone lives with their parents is nearing 30.

Why should 27% of pensioners who have over £1million in assets get an extra benefit.

They are penalised. They used to get £300 now they don't. That's penalised.

They've had very high housing costs when paying off their mortgage. They still have housing costs as pensioners.

Your argument that they should just sell up is up there with your top 3 most nonsense posts. And selling their family home isn't going to get kids out of poverty.

[Stairway 2 7]

You are assuming every pensioner has other income to make it to the average. I have workplace pension but was contracted out of SERPS so don't get the full state pension. I think a lot of people are the same. The £18,148 is a red herring when the discussion is about state pension. Any pensioner who retired before 2016 doesn't get £12,150.
It's not a red herring it's a fact. You could argue where the limit should be but a millionaire getting a benefit is bizarre to justify.

Your also not adding pensions benefits to your totals, most under £11,300 get it unless savings or second pension. That's worth on average £3,900 a year.

[Stairway 2 7]

Because they've worked for it, planned for it and probably not went to Benidorm every year to save money to buy their property. Why should those who had the foresight to plan for old age be asked to foot the bill for those who don't?

It's a couple of hundred pound per year, there pension is going up above inflation this year and above what they are losing so their planning will be fine

[Hibrandenburg]

It's a couple of hundred pound per year, there pension is going up above inflation this year and above what they are losing so their planning will be fine

And you know what they're all planning how?

[Stairway 2 7]

They are penalised. They used to get £300 now they don't. That's penalised.

They've had very high housing costs when paying off their mortgage. They still have housing costs as pensioners.

Your argument that they should just sell up is up there with your top 3 most nonsense posts. And selling their family home isn't going to get kids out of poverty.

They won't need to sell up it's £200 the pension is going up by a greater ammunition, much higher than wages are risi. It's a benefit given to all regardless of wealth SNP are spot on. Money is tough for governments and a flat benefit is ridiculous

[Stairway 2 7]

And you know what they're all planning how?

How do you know what they are planning you just gave 12 million people a life story. Why don't we give 200 to every 47 year old regardless of wealth or income, because that would be a badly targeted benefit

[Stairway 2 7]

What do you mean by "they don't have housing costs "? And what is your source that 27% of pensioners have over £1 million in assets??

https://theferret.scot/27-per-cent-pensioners-millionaires-mostly-true/
Claim 27 per cent of pensioners are millionaires is Mostly True

[grunt]

You may agree with the SNP Government’s decision to discuss areas of mutual interest with Israel whilst they continue their assault on Gaza. But would you agree that to do so whilst so many are asking for sanctions against Israel suggests this move has to be seen, at best, as tone deaf?
Does asking for sanctions mean that diplomatic ties are severed?

[Moulin Yarns]

https://theferret.scot/27-per-cent-pensioners-millionaires-mostly-true/
Claim 27 per cent of pensioners are millionaires is Mostly True

2 pensioners in a 1 million pound house!! That's a problem for a start. As the ferret acknowledged. Meaning less than 27% are millionaires.

Glad we agree with that. 😁

Now, about no housing costs??

[Stairway 2 7]

2 pensioners in a 1 million pound house!! That's a problem for a start. As the ferret acknowledged. Meaning less than 27% are millionaires.

Glad we agree with that. 😁

Now, about no housing costs??

So 500k in assets each, boomers are unreal. You reckon many of the 27% with a £1 mil house don't have a decent pension to accrue that. Regardless if toiling downsize to a £400,000 massive house or flat and live like a lord.

The ons shows the percentage of home owners, it's actually higher for lowest income pensioners
https://www.pensionsage.com/pa/Almost-90-of-lowest-earning-pensioners-own-property-ONS.php
Almost 90 per cent of UK pensioners with the lowest income levels own their own homes, according to new government statistics.

[Moulin Yarns]

So 500k in assets each, boomers are unreal. You reckon many of the 27% with a £1 mil house don't have a decent pension to accrue that. Regardless if toiling downsize to a £400,000 massive house or flat and live like a lord.

The ons shows the percentage of home owners, it's actually higher for lowest income pensioners
https://www.pensionsage.com/pa/Almost-90-of-lowest-earning-pensioners-own-property-ONS.php
Almost 90 per cent of UK pensioners with the lowest income levels own their own homes, according to new government statistics.

Seeing how you aren't answering the question about housing costs I'll give you some facts to ponder.

Not every pensioner owns a house, so there is rent to pay

Then there is council tax and utility bills to pay.

Every house needs maintenance, my lump sum from my workplace pension went to reslating the roof. All on less than the average salary.

[Stairway 2 7]

Seeing how you aren't answering the question about housing costs I'll give you some facts to ponder.

Not every pensioner owns a house, so there is rent to pay

Then there is council tax and utility bills to pay.

Every house needs maintenance, my lump sum from my workplace pension went to reslating the roof. All on less than the average salary.

If you rent a home you are entitled to benefits credit which on average is 3,900. If you get less than 11,300 your also entitled to pension credit. 90% of lowest income pensioners own their home. There will be some on the margins that are unfortunate like all benefits. Giving Sir Ian Wood 200 extra isn't a sensible benefit.

Going round in circles though. If you don't agree email your nearest SNP MSP perhaps

[Moulin Yarns]

If you rent a home you are entitled to benefits credit which on average is 3,900. If you get less than 11,300 your also entitled to pension credit. 90% of lowest income pensioners own their home. There will be some on the margins that are unfortunate like all benefits. Giving Sir Ian Wood 200 extra isn't a sensible benefit.

Going round in circles though. If you don't agree email your nearest SNP MSP perhaps

Let me get this right, you’ve admitted there are costs over and above mortgage payments in houses?

But you keep saying the average pension income is over £18k so the pensioners wouldn't get benefit!!

[Stairway 2 7]

Let me get this right, you’ve admitted there are costs over and above mortgage payments in houses?

But you keep saying the average pension income is over £18k so the pensioners wouldn't get benefit!!

There is costs over and above for all people that's obvious and doesn't really need said no? I said the mean average.. those under 11,300 get pension credit or those with caring responsibilities, disabilities and those that don't own their home.

I personally think it should be means tested, there is an argument for an increased cut off. Rich pensioners shouldn't get that benefit, I think Scot Gov is spot on even if it won't be popular

[grunt]

So 500k in assets each, boomers are unreal. You reckon many of the 27% with a £1 mil house don't have a decent pension to accrue that. Regardless if toiling downsize to a £400,000 massive house or flat and live like a lord.

The pension millionaires link says that "much of the wealth comes from house and pension value" so the million pound figure includes pension pots.

[Stairway 2 7]

The pension millionaires link says that "much of the wealth comes from house and pension value" so the million pound figure includes pension pots.

Yeah so they don't need extra benefits if a big pension pot

[Moulin Yarns]

The pension millionaires link says that "much of the wealth comes from house and pension value" so the million pound figure includes pension pots.

In which case they are"Asset rich, cash poor" where a person owns valuable assets (e.g., property), but they don't have much immediate cash or liquid funds available.

Also, most will share a house with a spouse, so they are in effect half millionaires.

[lapsedhibee]

There is costs over and above for all people that's obvious and doesn't really need said no? I said the mean average.. those under 11,300 get pension credit or those with caring responsibilities, disabilities and those that don't own their home.

I personally think it should be means tested, there is an argument for an increased cut off. Rich pensioners shouldn't get that benefit, I think Scot Gov is spot on even if it won't be popular

It would be consistent with your argument here, would it not, to also argue that the state pension should be means tested?