SNP are lying b******s as well !

[marinello59]

2. Wish I hadn't bothered 😕


:greengrin

[heretoday]

Edinburgh has plenty of those charitable schools as well. :greengrin

They do indeed. Half the pupils are Chinese too.

[Ozyhibby]

They do indeed. Half the pupils are Chinese too.

By half do you mean less than 1%?


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[marinello59]

They do indeed. Half the pupils are Chinese too.

I’m not sure what that has to do with anything at all?

[CropleyWasGod]

I’m not sure what that has to do with anything at all?

If it were true, which it isn't I'm sure, the implication would be that Chinese students were benefitting from relatively low school fees. The fees being lower as no VAT is charged on them, with the schools being classed as a charity.

So....bloody Chinese kids coming over here and screwing us hard-working British taxpayers and getting a top-class education into the bargain....or something.

[greenginger]

They do indeed. Half the pupils are Chinese too.

I’ve got two grandchildren at Watson’s and do regular pickups and got to say there are very few Chinese to be seen in the junior school anyway.

[danhibees1875]

I’ve got two grandchildren at Watson’s and do regular pickups and got to say there are very few Chinese to be seen in the junior school anyway.

Well, statistically* speaking, one of your grandchildren is Chinese.

*made up statistics applied

[greenginger]

Well, statistically* speaking, one of your grandchildren is Chinese.

*made up statistics applied

Factually speaking 98% of Chinese people are in China

[Jack]

Foreign pupils:

Excluding international schools, about 5% of private school pupils are non-British with parents living abroad. The largest group are from China (both mainland and Hong Kong).

Another 5% are non-British but with parents who live in Britain.

[grunt]

2. Wish I hadn't bothered 😕

:na na:

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1612368386503380993?s=46&t=sxXHiY6gsCiht_nGka_OSQ

Is this a negative?


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[Santa Cruz]

https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1612368386503380993?s=46&t=sxXHiY6gsCiht_nGka_OSQ

Is this a negative?


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Of course it is. The kids were disadvantaged enough through the amount of schooling they missed, then the mass catch up, followed by sitting important Highers when they had no experience of sitting exams at a lower grade.

[grunt]

https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1612368386503380993?s=46&t=sxXHiY6gsCiht_nGka_OSQ

Is this a negative?
I can't read the article (don't really want to tbh) but does it discuss anywhere why this decision was taken? I'm guessing it wasn't done purely to upset people.

[danhibees1875]

I can't read the article (don't really want to tbh) but does it discuss anywhere why this decision was taken? I'm guessing it wasn't done purely to upset people.

Or indeed what they're pushing down from... was it not the case that pass rates got hugely inflated over the covid years, has it just gone back to normal levels?

[Jack]

Or indeed what they're pushing down from... was it not the case that pass rates got hugely inflated over the covid years, has it just gone back to normal levels?
... and do they not look at how difficult the exams were and comparing marks across the board then bumping pass marks up or down accordingly?

[danhibees1875]

... and do they not look at how difficult the exams were and comparing marks across the board then bumping pass marks up or down accordingly?

That would impact the pass mark, which will change year on year in order to keep a steady enough pass rate, I would think.

It was the rate that increased over covid, and sounds like has now decreased. :dunno:

[Ozyhibby]

The exam results were inflated massively over covid due to massive media pressure to do so. Remember the algorithm etc. This was an attempt to bring it back to normal. The covid results are unsustainable.
Universities had no way of judging who was right for what course when everyone was showing up with a full set of A’s. And it doesn’t really help the kids if they end up on a course they are not capable of doing.
My own kids is doing exams this year and we have already been told if he wants to go to Glasgow Uni to do a social science course then he will need 6 A’s to get in. Obviously it less for Edinburgh and other uni’s but that is a massive amount of A grades needed but the uni has no choice.

I’ll also say I think the Scottish and Uk govts were right first time round with the results and should have stuck to their guns on it.


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[Santa Cruz]

Maybe the Uni's should be instructed by the SG to up the number of available places for Scottish resident students. Think I read Edinburgh only offers 30% of placements to Scottish based students.

[James310]

Maybe the Uni's should be instructed by the SG to up the number of available places for Scottish resident students. Think I read Edinburgh only offers 30% of placements to Scottish based students.

https://thetab.com/uk/2022/08/08/scottish-students-are-unfairly-disadvantaged-from-getting-into-scottish-unis-charity-says-266592

[grunt]

https://thetab.com/uk/2022/08/08/scottish-students-are-unfairly-disadvantaged-from-getting-into-scottish-unis-charity-says-266592
Chris Deerin again! :greengrin

[James310]

Chris Deerin again! :greengrin

What do you disagree with, assuming you tolerate the criticism?

[Santa Cruz]

Chris Deerin again! :greengrin

Are you saying the person you are naming is behind some attempt to make the figures up in the article linked, on the basis of not being an SNP supporter? If so, can you provide correct figures for available uni placements for Scottish students? Ta.

[ronaldo7]

Chris Deerin again! :greengrin

I'm sure the right wing think tank masquerading as a charity with Lord McConnell overseeing things have something to say on the subject.

Give them a chance man. :greengrin

[Santa Cruz]

Well all I can say is if those figures are correct, you can kiss goodbye to a sizeable chunk of the 16/17 year old voters.

[Ozyhibby]

https://thetab.com/uk/2022/08/08/scottish-students-are-unfairly-disadvantaged-from-getting-into-scottish-unis-charity-says-266592

That article says there has been a massive rise in Scottish students going to Scottish uni’s.
We know that because very few kids go to study in England now due to the fees. Not sure what affect that will have on the ties that bind the union but I doubt it will strengthen them.


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[ronaldo7]

Are you saying the person you are naming is behind some attempt to make the figures up in the article linked, on the basis of not being an SNP supporter? If so, can you provide correct figures for available uni placements for Scottish students? Ta.

I'm not sure this part of the report would go down too well. You never know though.

"In their report, titled Scrap The Cap, Reform Scotland suggests Scottish graduates who earn more than the average Scottish salary should pay back a proportion of their tuition fees."

[Ozyhibby]

Well all I can say is if those figures are correct, you can kiss goodbye to a sizeable chunk of the 16/17 year old voters.

What figures?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Are you saying the person you are naming is behind some attempt to make the figures up in the article linked, on the basis of not being an SNP supporter? If so, can you provide correct figures for available uni placements for Scottish students? Ta.

The figures aren't made up they are published openly each year

[James310]

That article says there has been a massive rise in Scottish students going to Scottish uni’s.
We know that because very few kids go to study in England now due to the fees. Not sure what affect that will have on the ties that bind the union but I doubt it will strengthen them.


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Why have you introduced Independence into this topic? Was it mentioned in the article?

[Ozyhibby]

Why have you introduced Independence into this topic? Was it mentioned in the article?

It was just a thought that entered my head when thinking about the fact that young Scot no longer go to England for their education. Don’t read too much into it. I’m sure it’s nothing.


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[danhibees1875]

I'm not sure this part of the report would go down too well. You never know though.

"In their report, titled Scrap The Cap, Reform Scotland suggests Scottish graduates who earn more than the average Scottish salary should pay back a proportion of their tuition fees."

Realistically is that much different to the current system?

It's more direct stating it that way, but at the end of the day we have a progressive tax system that means those earning more will pay more tax, that's then used to fund the education system.

Only difference would be that high earners who didn't go to uni get to escape a bit of their tax burden. The end result would seem little more than just edging towards a system where people pay for the services they use and having less univasal public services. :dunno:

[archie]

It was just a thought that entered my head when thinking about the fact that young Scot no longer go to England for their education. Don’t read too much into it. I’m sure it’s nothing.


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That's just so misleading. The effect of the free tuition policy ( or more appropriately the funding of it) is that there are caps on the number of Scottish students who can get into Scottish universities. This is on Edinburgh Unviversity's admissions pages:

Scotland Fee Rate students*

Scotland fee rate includes UK nationals who are normally resident in Scotland, and EU nationals with settled/pre-settled status who are normally resident in the UK. The Scottish Government places strict limits on the number of Scotland fee rate students that Scottish universities can admit. This means that Scottish universities are limited in the number of offers they can make to Scotland fee rate applicants.

https://www.ed.ac.uk/student-recruitment/admissions-advice/admissions-statistics

[ronaldo7]

Realistically is that much different to the current system?

It's more direct stating it that way, but at the end of the day we have a progressive tax system that means those earning more will pay more tax, that's then used to fund the education system.

Only difference would be that high earners who didn't go to uni get to escape a bit of their tax burden. The end result would seem little more than just edging towards a system where people pay for the services they use and having less univasal public services. :dunno:

Sorry, I don't know what the "Think tank" were proposing. It only mentioned paying back some of the fees. No idea how much or at what rate.

Where Lord McConnell has been, I rather fear to tread.

[danhibees1875]

Sorry, I don't know what the "Think tank" were proposing. It only mentioned paying back some of the fees. No idea how much or at what rate.

Where Lord McConnell has been, I rather fear to tread.

No worries, it just seems that ultimately paying back fees when you earn more already happens in the current system.

[Ozyhibby]

That's just so misleading. The effect of the free tuition policy ( or more appropriately the funding of it) is that there are caps on the number of Scottish students who can get into Scottish universities. This is on Edinburgh Unviversity's admissions pages:

Scotland Fee Rate students*

Scotland fee rate includes UK nationals who are normally resident in Scotland, and EU nationals with settled/pre-settled status who are normally resident in the UK. The Scottish Government places strict limits on the number of Scotland fee rate students that Scottish universities can admit. This means that Scottish universities are limited in the number of offers they can make to Scotland fee rate applicants.

https://www.ed.ac.uk/student-recruitment/admissions-advice/admissions-statistics

45% of Scottish kids go on to uni. That’s higher than it’s ever been. And about the same as in England.


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[archie]

45% of Scottish kids go on to uni. That’s higher than it’s ever been. And about the same as in England.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThat's not the point I'm making. It's that because of the funding arrangements Scottish student places are capped at Scottish universities. I'm not opposed to foreign students by any means, but a third of students in Edinburgh uni are foreign and almost 40% at St Andrews https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/student-advice/where-to-study/international-students-at-uk-universities

So the effect of this is that tuition is fee free for Scottish students if you get in under the cap. Otherwise you have to go elsewhere and pay.

[Ozyhibby]

That's not the point I'm making. It's that because of the funding arrangements Scottish student places are capped at Scottish universities. I'm not opposed to foreign students by any means, but a third of students in Edinburgh uni are foreign and almost 40% at St Andrews https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/student-advice/where-to-study/international-students-at-uk-universities

So the effect of this is that tuition is fee free for Scottish students if you get in under the cap. Otherwise you have to go elsewhere and pay.

Is there any evidence of this? How many Scottish kids are missing out every year?
Is there a cap in England as well then? There must be, as they are only sending the same amount of kids to uni as we are?
I’m not sure why you are bringing foreign students into it?


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[grunt]

What do you disagree with, assuming you tolerate the criticism?The author of your revered article clearly knows so little about Scottish education that they think Lindsay Patterson is a woman. Patterson (he/him) is a well known anti-SNP commentator. Frankly that article is so full of contradictory statements that it does my head in to read it, let alone analyse it on your behalf. Read it yourself, make up your own mind.

[Ozyhibby]

The author of your revered article clearly knows so little about Scottish education that they think Lindsay Patterson is a woman. Patterson (he/him) is a well known anti-SNP commentator. Frankly that article is so full of contradictory statements that it does my head in to read it, let alone analyse it on your behalf. Read it yourself, make up your own mind.

Wrong thread.[emoji6][emoji23]


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[grunt]

So the effect of this is that tuition is fee free for Scottish students if you get in under the cap. Otherwise you have to go elsewhere and pay.
Damn! Limited free spaces available. What is the world coming to?

[archie]

Damn! Limited free spaces available. What is the world coming to?Well what it means is that university education at Scottish universities is being denied to Scottish students because of the funding system. It means that some Scottish students therefore have to pay fees at universities down south. You might be OK with this, but many aren't.

[Ozyhibby]

Well what it means is that university education at Scottish universities is being denied to Scottish students because of the funding system. It means that some Scottish students therefore have to pay fees at universities down south. You might be OK with this, but many aren't.

In your imagination? Where is evidence of this cap?

Why is Scotland sending the same amount of kids to uni as England if we have a cap?
Is it because we have better Education system than England so more kids should go to uni?


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[grunt]

Well what it means is that university education at Scottish universities is being denied to Scottish students because of the funding system. It means that some Scottish students therefore have to pay fees at universities down south. You might be OK with this, but many aren't.:confused:

In the same article that started this bit of the discussion it says:


Between 2019 and 2021, Glasgow University increased its number of Scottish students by 23 per cent from 3,365 to 4,130

Edinburgh University increased its proportion of Scottish residents by an even higher margin of 32 per cent from 2,115 students to 2,795

[Stairway 2 7]

In your imagination? Where is evidence of this cap?

Why is Scotland sending the same amount of kids to uni as England if we have a cap?
Is it because we have better Education system than England so more kids should go to uni?


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Has the gap closed all I can see is 2018

https://www.ucas.com/corporate/news-and-key-documents/news/record-proportion-english-and-scottish-18-year-olds-accepted-university

33.7 per cent of all 18 year olds from England, and 26.7 per cent from Scotland, were accepted through UCAS to start an undergraduate course in 2018

[Stairway 2 7]

There was a big drop in foreign students due to covid. Also universities had to take in larger numbers due to inflated grades, which is showing in record drop out rates.

The universities are mostly to blame as they push hard against Scottish students, obviously as they get much more for foreign students. Universities are expanding at an incredible rate, turning into a education for profit factory.

Scot gov have done some great things, like demanding an increased number of students from deprived areas, poorer schools, parents who don't have degrees get guaranteed places. Free university places obviously makes any comparisons with England pointless

[archie]

Is there any evidence of this? How many Scottish kids are missing out every year?
Is there a cap in England as well then? There must be, as they are only sending the same amount of kids to uni as we are?
I’m not sure why you are bringing foreign students into it?


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The cap was referenced in my earlier post. The source was Edinburgh University admissions info

[Ozyhibby]

The cap was referenced in my earlier post. The source was Edinburgh University admissions info

One website that mentions a cap but doesn’t say what it is? I’m all ears if you have any more info on it? It doesn’t appear to be stopping any Scottish kids from going to university? In fact Scottish kids appear to be going to university more than ever before?
This is a real mystery to me? You say Scottish kids are being prevented from going to uni by the SG and I just can’t find any evidence to back that up? Maybe you can help me find it?


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[Stairway 2 7]

One website that mentions a cap but doesn’t say what it is? I’m all ears if you have any more info on it? It doesn’t appear to be stopping any Scottish kids from going to university? In fact Scottish kids appear to be going to university more than ever before?
This is a real mystery to me? You say Scottish kids are being prevented from going to uni by the SG and I just can’t find any evidence to back that up? Maybe you can help me find it?


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Their isn't a cap but rather university are obliged to accept a certain % of Scottish students, is it 30? And something like 10% from a criteria of less advantaged students.

Universities usually stick to that as they get thousands of pounds less per Scottish student than international. Although now there isn't places for eu students. If unis can plug it with international students they will. The figures are pretty much useless during covid. Will get a better picture next year now China has opened up for example

[archie]

One website that mentions a cap but doesn’t say what it is? I’m all ears if you have any more info on it? It doesn’t appear to be stopping any Scottish kids from going to university? In fact Scottish kids appear to be going to university more than ever before?
This is a real mystery to me? You say Scottish kids are being prevented from going to uni by the SG and I just can’t find any evidence to back that up? Maybe you can help me find it?


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Do you accept there is a cap on Scottish students? Here's a Guardian piece on incentives offered to non-Scottish students to attend Scottish universities. Not available to Scottish students https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/jul/22/scottish-universities-offer-cash-incentives-to-lure-other-uk-students

Also, like it or not, you can't say all Scottish universities are the same. So your use of aggregate numbers won't tell the full story.

[Ozyhibby]

Do you accept there is a cap on Scottish students? Here's a Guardian piece on incentives offered to non-Scottish students to attend Scottish universities. Not available to Scottish students https://www.theguardian.com/education/2022/jul/22/scottish-universities-offer-cash-incentives-to-lure-other-uk-students

Also, like it or not, you can't say all Scottish universities are the same. So your use of aggregate numbers won't tell the full story.

That’s a decent article which shows the good work the uni’s are doing bringing in Students from outside Scotland. It uses the word cap but doesn’t say what it is? You seem to be saying bringing foreign students to Scotland is a bad thing?


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[archie]

That’s a decent article which shows the good work the uni’s are doing bringing in Students from outside Scotland. It uses the word cap but doesn’t say what it is? You seem to be saying bringing foreign students to Scotland is a bad thing?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThe article is saying that they are trying to attract students from outside Scotland because they get higher fees. So there is a perverse incentive not to take Scottish students. It's a function of the funding system. I'm very much in favour of Scottish universities having foreign students, but I'm less in favour of the deck being stacked against Scottish students.

[Ozyhibby]

The article is saying that they are trying to attract students from outside Scotland because they get higher fees. So there is a perverse incentive not to take Scottish students. It's a function of the funding system. I'm very much in favour of Scottish universities having foreign students, but I'm less in favour of the deck being stacked against Scottish students.

That’s assuming they are not increasing the capacity of their institution? Given the amount of extra flats they are building, I would suggest they are increasing the numbers of students.


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[Stairway 2 7]

That’s assuming they are not increasing the capacity of their institution? Given the amount of extra flats they are building, I would suggest they are increasing the numbers of students.


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The minimum of Scottish domicile first year students is 32% hence Edinburgh and St Andrews have that. It's pretty poor our two top universities only have a third of Scottish third year students. They won't increase it if they don't have to.

[archie]

That’s assuming they are not increasing the capacity of their institution? Given the amount of extra flats they are building, I would suggest they are increasing the numbers of students.


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Who is building flats?

[Ozyhibby]

The minimum of Scottish domicile first year students is 32% hence Edinburgh and St Andrews have that. It's pretty poor our two top universities only have a third of Scottish third year students. They won't increase it if they don't have to.

The percentage doesn’t matter to me one bit. The important thing is are all Scottish kids who are capable and want to go to uni being given a space and I think they are.


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[Ozyhibby]

Who is building flats?

There are student flats popping up all over Edinburgh. That wouldn’t be happening unless there was more demand for them.


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[Stairway 2 7]

The percentage doesn’t matter to me one bit. The important thing is are all Scottish kids who are capable and want to go to uni being given a space and I think they are.


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Just not our best ones. 30% takes the p. Is there many other of the worlds countries who's best uni's have such a low % of their nationals starting, I'd doubt it

[Ozyhibby]

Just not our best ones. 30% takes the p. Is there many other of the worlds countries who's best uni's have such a low % of their nationals starting, I'd doubt it

What do you mean not our best ones?


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[Stairway 2 7]

What do you mean not our best ones?


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Best universities.

[archie]

There are student flats popping up all over Edinburgh. That wouldn’t be happening unless there was more demand for them.


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These are private companies building student let's because they make more money. They shouldn't be taken as an indicator of increasing numbers of students as they are not built by the universities.

[Ozyhibby]

Best universities.

There are more Scottish kids at Edinburgh than ever before though?


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[Stairway 2 7]

There are more Scottish kids at Edinburgh than ever before though?


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Its up to 32% from 30% of first year students the limit. 10% from England. The uptick is due to less Europeans. The interesting % will be next year after borders reopening

[Just Alf]

These are private companies building student let's because they make more money. They shouldn't be taken as an indicator of increasing numbers of students as they are not built by the universities.To be fair the accomodation suppliers/companies are working hand in hand with the various unis to confirm future capacity requirements.


Source: someone directly involved.

[Hibrandenburg]

There are more Scottish kids at Edinburgh than ever before though?


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Imagine an SNP supporter complaining about the number of foreigners being allowed to attend Scottish universities on here, they'd get flayed alive and labelled as fascists.

Where's the problem when all Scottish students who are eligible and want a place get a place?

[Stairway 2 7]

Imagine an SNP supporter complaining about the number of foreigners being allowed to attend Scottish universities on here, they'd get flayed alive and labelled as fascists.

Where's the problem when all Scottish students who are eligible and want a place get a place?

Where are you getting your second paragraph from. The numbers not getting in is increasing. It's as much the top unis fault but the fact that our 3 top unis all have under a third of Scots starters is pathetic.

Who's going to get labelled as fascists for saying our top education establishments ,should have more that a third of Scots. Ridiculous also

[archie]

Imagine an SNP supporter complaining about the number of foreigners being allowed to attend Scottish universities on here, they'd get flayed alive and labelled as fascists.

Where's the problem when all Scottish students who are eligible and want a place get a place?

There wouldn't be a problem if that was the case. The issue is that the funding system militates against Scottish students.

[Santa Cruz]

Imagine an SNP supporter complaining about the number of foreigners being allowed to attend Scottish universities on here, they'd get flayed alive and labelled as fascists.

Where's the problem when all Scottish students who are eligible and want a place get a place?

They don't all get a place. Daughter has friends who want a place and are recieving rejection letters.

[Ozyhibby]

Where are you getting your second paragraph from. The numbers not getting in is increasing. It's as much the top unis fault but the fact that our 3 top unis all have under a third of Scots starters is pathetic.

Who's going to get labelled as fascists for saying our top education establishments ,should have more that a third of Scots. Ridiculous also

You keep focussing on the percentage? Why?
If they had 1000 Scottish kids in 1990 and that was 50% of the total would that be better than if they had 1500 Scottish kids now but that was only 30% of the total?


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[archie]

Imagine an SNP supporter complaining about the number of foreigners being allowed to attend Scottish universities on here, they'd get flayed alive and labelled as fascists.

Where's the problem when all Scottish students who are eligible and want a place get a place?


To be fair the accomodation suppliers/companies are working hand in hand with the various unis to confirm future capacity requirements.


Source: someone directly involved.

That's right. But there doesn't need to be an increase in students if the companies are taking tenants from other providers

[James310]

Imagine an SNP supporter complaining about the number of foreigners being allowed to attend Scottish universities on here, they'd get flayed alive and labelled as fascists.

Where's the problem when all Scottish students who are eligible and want a place get a place?

That's not true though, a quick look at Edinburgh University site for example shows over 1500 Scots applying for a place on the Design and Technology course and only 117 offers were made to Scottish students, so less than 10% of those applying got an offer.

Why do you think all Scottish students that are eligible and want a place get a place?

[Ozyhibby]

They don't all get a place. Daughter has friends who want a place and are recieving rejection letters.

Yes, there is a real shortage of university accommodation just now. All Scottish uni’s are expanding.


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[Santa Cruz]

Yes, there is a real shortage of university accommodation just now. All Scottish uni’s are expanding.


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eh? They're not applying for accommodation, they're applying for a uni placement and being rejected.

[Ozyhibby]

That's not true though, a quick look at Edinburgh University site for example shows over 1500 Scots applying for a place on the Design and Technology course and only 117 offers were made to Scottish students, so less than 10% of those applying got an offer.

Why do you think all Scottish students that are eligible and want a place get a place?

Not all students get their first choice. Edinburgh is more difficult to get into than Napier.
Besides, every student applies to 5 universities so there is obviously going to be many times the number of applications as spaces.


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[Stairway 2 7]

You keep focussing on the percentage? Why?
If they had 1000 Scottish kids in 1990 and that was 50% of the total would that be better than if they had 1500 Scottish kids now but that was only 30% of the total?


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Because the amount of students going to university has exploded in 20 years but the amount of Scots at our top universities has went down, it used to be above 50%.

Your going of a 2% increase during covid when many students didn't join

[James310]

Not all students get their first choice. Edinburgh is more difficult to get into than Napier.
Besides, every student applies to 5 universities so there is obviously going to be many times the number of applications as spaces.


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I don't disagree, but a statement was made every eligible student that applies gets the place they want. That's obviously not true.

[Ozyhibby]

eh? They're not applying for accommodation, they're applying for a uni placement and being rejected.

Two things there, one is that not everybody gets into uni. No idea what their grades are but maybe not good enough for where they want to go. Second thing is if they have grades from covid exam diet then because of the campaign just to hand out A’s Willy nilly then that goes back to what the original discussion was all about. Right now the uni’s are having to deal with a massive amount of kids who on the surface appear to have the kind of grades only the top 30% of kids normally have. Managing that is causing them problems. I honestly think in next couple of years the uni drop out rate will rise as all these kids with 5 A’s at higher who normally wouldn’t have got that find they are on a course they can’t cope with.


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[Ozyhibby]

Because the amount of students going to university has exploded in 20 years but the amount of Scots at our top universities has went down, it used to be above 50%.

Your going of a 2% increase during covid when many students didn't join

Your not making any sense.
If Edinburgh decides to expand their spaces to even more foreign students, that does not harm Scottish students?


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[Ozyhibby]

I don't disagree, but a statement was made every eligible student that applies gets the place they want. That's obviously not true.

Where was that statement made? Hope not by me because that is not what I meant?
Uni isn’t for everybody, certainly wasn’t for me. The SG is managing to supply 45% of the population with uni spaces though which is inline with the rest of the uk.


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[Santa Cruz]

Two things there, one is that not everybody gets into uni. No idea what their grades are but maybe not good enough for where they want to go. Second thing is if they have grades from covid exam diet then because of the campaign just to hand out A’s Willy nilly then that goes back to what the original discussion was all about. Right now the uni’s are having to deal with a massive amount of kids who on the surface appear to have the kind of grades only the top 30% of kids normally have. Managing that is causing them problems. I honestly think in next couple of years the uni drop out rate will rise as all these kids with 5 A’s at higher who normally wouldn’t have got that find they are on a course they can’t cope with.


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They made the grades required to apply for the courses. They gained the Higher results in the summer. That would be the year relating to the article you linked where a decision was taken to mark lower than the previous year due to the SG bowing to media pressure just ahead of an election.:wink:

[Ozyhibby]

They made the grades required to apply for the courses. They gained the Higher results in the summer. That would be the year relating to the article you linked where a decision was taken to mark lower than the previous year due to the SG bowing to media pressure just ahead of an election.:wink:

I understand where you are coming from. I spoke to UCAS rep at my son’s school and she was telling me that Glasgow was having to massively increase the grades they were looking for for every course just to sort through it all. Edinburgh is a bit easier to get into but is still a similar story.
The minimum grades published in the prospectus online are meaningless for top uni’s. You will need a good bit more plus all the personal statement stuff etc.
It’s not easy but then I guess it’s not meant to be that easy.


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[Santa Cruz]

I understand where you are coming from. I spoke to UCAS rep at my son’s school and she was telling me that Glasgow was having to massively increase the grades they were looking for for every course just to sort through it all. Edinburgh is a bit easier to get into but is still a similar story.
The minimum grades published in the prospectus online are meaningless for top uni’s. You will need a good bit more plus all the personal statement stuff etc.
It’s not easy but then I guess it’s not meant to be that easy.


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It shouldn't be made difficult if one of the SG's flagship policies is free tuition places for all who meet entry level requirements. It's a misleading policy when it's not a straightforward process and there is a lack of available places. Anyway, good luck to your kid when their time comes to apply. :aok:

[Stairway 2 7]

Your not making any sense.
If Edinburgh decides to expand their spaces to even more foreign students, that does not harm Scottish students?


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I don't think you understand the situation properly. Edinburgh university places have exploded. The number of uk kids going to uni has exploded. But the % of Scots at Edinburgh has shrunken dramatically.

Other universities have increased and that's where the Scots are going. I don't honestly think it's OK that 30% of our top three university starters are from Scotland.

Add in there is a huge danger in how the universities are selling themselves and their information to China

[Hibrandenburg]

Where are you getting your second paragraph from. The numbers not getting in is increasing. It's as much the top unis fault but the fact that our 3 top unis all have under a third of Scots starters is pathetic.

Who's going to get labelled as fascists for saying our top education establishments ,should have more that a third of Scots. Ridiculous also

Badly worded on my part, apologies, but the fact remains that more kids are attending university in Scotland than before and if any nationalist on here hinted that foreigners were keeping Scots out of our universities, then they'd be rounded on.

[Skol]

Based on a sample size of one, there is something different about Edinburgh uni’s position on Scottish students.

Three other Scottish uni’s made unconditional offers immediately. Edinburgh waited until the last possible day. At their open day it was clear they were looking for students from outside Scotland.

One other uni even went out of their way to accommodate a change to sort an error in the application due to the grades involved. Their initial position was no change possible, but let’s check grades. The. Yes, let’s make whatever change you want as we want you to study here.

Edinburgh in the end gave a rejection but said the results were such that contact should be made on results day to see what could be done once they knew the English results and who was being offered and accepting places.

In the end no offer was made and a student was left feeling strung along and let down and had to leave home to study.

As it transpired going to another city was the best outcome and I am glad said student did not go to Edinburgh.

Based on that, there is something dubious about Edinburgh, but clearly didn’t go on at Glasgow, Stirling or Dundee

[grunt]

I don't think you understand the situation properly. Edinburgh university places have exploded. The number of uk kids going to uni has exploded. But the % of Scots at Edinburgh has shrunken dramatically.

Where does this stat come from? It doesn't seem to agree with stat in the article from a few pages ago?

[Stairway 2 7]

Where does this stat come from? It doesn't seem to agree with stat in the article from a few pages ago?

That article is comparing pre covid 2019 to 2021 intake. It's a ridiculous comparison and would make you think from a steady drop for 20 years there has been a large rise.

As I said I'd look at next year's although 2024 probably the first post covid intake

[Stairway 2 7]

I actually think it's the unis causing the problem but government has to push them. Snp have actually introduced the minimum amount and also the 10% for low income ect. They should be praised for it, its the unis who are a business and want foreign students and higher cash.

Ed uni has hundreds of millions in the bank and 2.5 billion in assets. I'd tell them you need 51% Scots, they can afford it

[Smartie]

The unis used to get a lot of cash from the EU and are having to adapt to a new financial reality post-Brexit.

[stu in nottingham]

As far as I'm aware, there are no set quotas for international students in either Scottish or English universities. All students go through the same criteria for admission. Stand to be corrected on that.

A quick glance at the University of Nottingham tuition fees (a Russell Group university as is University of Edinburgh) indicate the huge difference in costs to the student. On average, an undergraduate degree costs approx. £9,200 pa. By comparison, international students often pay around £27,200 pa. It's hardly any surprise that UK universities court international students in various ways. That's been happening for a long time.

I read that Edinburgh in total has an increase of around 4,000-5,000 students since 2014 and this increase in numbers is expected to continue in the same trend. Similar here but more so. University of Nottingham even has campuses in China and Malaysia and does exchanges!

[Stairway 2 7]

The unis used to get a lot of cash from the EU and are having to adapt to a new financial reality post-Brexit.

Edinburgh was worried about falling eu students, that scot gov paid the fees for. Foreign students have plugged the gap and more. Record numbers of applications received last year and this and a huge profit again.

I was told they could fill most courses with Chinese students if they were able to. China has a massive middle and upper class and not enough universities to teach them. They are building them but it takes years as you need more than a building, trained estates staff, lectures ect.

[Stairway 2 7]

Common weal scathing towards the snp, but optimistic about independence

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23168307.yes-movement-mess-needs-taken-hands-snp/

[Moulin Yarns]

Common weal scathing towards the snp, but optimistic about independence

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23168307.yes-movement-mess-needs-taken-hands-snp/

I've been saying that the campaign should be led by a group independent of the SNP for ages.

[Ozyhibby]

I've been saying that the campaign should be led by a group independent of the SNP for ages.

There is not enough support out there for any other group. Alba is finding that out.


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[weecounty hibby]

I've been saying that the campaign should be led by a group independent of the SNP for ages.
Whilst I agree with that sentiment in principle what happens in practice is you get it driven by the loons in Alba, salvo etc. Look at the AUOB rallies, gone from hundred thousands to about 10,000 since they started to back Alba. Like it or not the SNP are the biggest and best vehicle for independence. Albas greatest flag waver the rev stu was actually advocating voting Tory recently. No issues with other independence groups or parties but when they spend 90% of their time attacking the SNP then I question their motives. That is not the same as genuine criticism of Scottish government that is often justified

[Berwickhibby]

Whilst I agree with that sentiment in principle what happens in practice is you get it driven by the loons in Alba, salvo etc. Look at the AUOB rallies, gone from hundred thousands to about 10,000 since they started to back Alba. Like it or not the SNP are the biggest and best vehicle for independence. Albas greatest flag waver the rev stu was actually advocating voting Tory recently. No issues with other independence groups or parties but when they spend 90% of their time attacking the SNP then I question their motives. That is not the same as genuine criticism of Scottish government that is often justified

Ah…” Wings over Bath” and the Rev Stu, I recall being slated for calling him a fraud and con artist for the amount of cash he raked in for himself on the back of his call for independence….

[weecounty hibby]

Ah…” Wings over Bath” and the Rev Stu, I recall being slated for calling him a fraud and con artist for the amount of cash he raked in for himself on the back of his call for independence….

Not by me!! Grifter of the highest order.

[Moulin Yarns]

There is not enough support out there for any other group. Alba is finding that out.


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I meant taking it away from political parties and let the grassroots lead the campaign.

[Ozyhibby]

I meant taking it away from political parties and let the grassroots lead the campaign.

There is nothing stopping grassroots groups from campaigning?


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[Moulin Yarns]

There is nothing stopping grassroots groups from campaigning?


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The problem is that everything seems to be coming from the SNP which is fine but there are others doing better (IMHO) publications who are non party affiliated who could be able to get cross party support if they were more prominent.

You even see it on here, people who are not snp supporters but might be persuaded to the benefits of independence. But because it's seen as the SNP will not give it the time of day.

[Ozyhibby]

The problem is that everything seems to be coming from the SNP which is fine but there are others doing better (IMHO) publications who are non party affiliated who could be able to get cross party support if they were more prominent.

You even see it on here, people who are not snp supporters but might be persuaded to the benefits of independence. But because it's seen as the SNP will not give it the time of day.

What should the SNP do about that? They have been campaigning for Indy for decades now. Why should they stand aside for another organisation that hasn’t been able to build support? That would seem like a backward step?


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[Moulin Yarns]

What should the SNP do about that? They have been campaigning for Indy for decades now. Why should they stand aside for another organisation that hasn’t been able to build support? That would seem like a backward step?


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I'm afraid you are missing my point.

I'm not saying that the SNP should stop campaigning for independence, but I think a 'yes' campaign that is led by someone who is not a politician and could bring together the independence supporters in other parties with a positive campaign.

You see it here, there are some people who are just so against the SNP that if they said the sky was blue they would argue against it.

Get a group together like common Weal and other like minded people who can make a case for independence that isn't branded as snp.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm afraid you are missing my point.

I'm not saying that the SNP should stop campaigning for independence, but I think a 'yes' campaign that is led by someone who is not a politician and could bring together the independence supporters in other parties with a positive campaign.

You see it here, there are some people who are just so against the SNP that if they said the sky was blue they would argue against it.

Get a group together like common Weal and other like minded people who can make a case for independence that isn't branded as snp.

The common weal are politicians though, they just haven’t been elected. There is plenty I could disagree with that the common weal put forward as well. This is very much a political issue and anyone campaigning for either side is a politician.


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[Ozyhibby]

Edinburgh was worried about falling eu students, that scot gov paid the fees for. Foreign students have plugged the gap and more. Record numbers of applications received last year and this and a huge profit again.

I was told they could fill most courses with Chinese students if they were able to. China has a massive middle and upper class and not enough universities to teach them. They are building them but it takes years as you need more than a building, trained estates staff, lectures ect.

https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1613527512159485952?s=46&t=rOGq_wjG-FRanU6-5uuZWg

Record number of Scots going to uni and numbers from poorer backgrounds up by 31%.
That’s what you call levelling up.
Very bad news for Private schools though.


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[grunt]

https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1613527512159485952?s=46&t=rOGq_wjG-FRanU6-5uuZWg

Record number of Scots going to uni and numbers from poorer backgrounds up by 31%.

Is this a bad thing?

[Ozyhibby]

Is this a bad thing?

Nope.


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/conor_matchett/status/1613527512159485952?s=46&t=rOGq_wjG-FRanU6-5uuZWg

Record number of Scots going to uni and numbers from poorer backgrounds up by 31%.
That’s what you call levelling up.
Very bad news for Private schools though.


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Its disingenuous to say private schools it's the majority of schools bar about 10. Of the 170 places for law for Scottish students 168 were from the "deprived" schools. That is truly great that they are getting in. The access is lowered so they can get in , usually instead of 2 A's at advanced higher its 2 B's.

Problem is out of the 555 students that applied from all the other Edinburgh schools only 2 got in. So if your from leith academy you probably won't get into law at Edinburgh, unless you have other criteria ticked, even if you have better grades.

Of course on top of that 72 foreign students got in paying 25,000 each.

It's great that we are looking after the most deprived. But it can't be right that many working class have no way of way of getting in some courses, but someone with 25k can. There has to be a compromise

[grunt]

Nope.
Matchett's earlier article in the Hootsman seemed to think it was a bad idea ...

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/students-from-less-deprived-background-have-door-closed-to-university-due-to-snp-funding-approach-3983059

[grunt]

It's great that we are looking after the most deprived. But it can't be right that many working class have no way of way of getting in some courses, but someone with 25k can. There has to be a compromise
:confused:

[Stairway 2 7]

:confused:

Need a clue

[grunt]

Need a clue
Sorry, I just didn't understand your last paragraph. Tbf, there's a lot about this story I don't understand.

[Ozyhibby]

Matchett's earlier article in the Hootsman seemed to think it was a bad idea ...

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/students-from-less-deprived-background-have-door-closed-to-university-due-to-snp-funding-approach-3983059

Behind paywall so can’t read it but may break habit of last ten years and actually buy a Scotsman this afternoon.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Sorry, I just didn't understand your last paragraph. Tbf, there's a lot about this story I don't understand.

168 students got into law at Edinburgh from Scotland all from the most deprived group. 555 from Scotland applied from different backgrounds, all got rejected. 70 students got in who paid 25k.

It's great the most deprived are getting in and I'd rather that than the opposite. But whilst universities are run as purely money making machines, a big portion of places will be kept for upper class foreign students

[Stairway 2 7]

Behind paywall so can’t read it but may break habit of last ten years and actually buy a Scotsman this afternoon.


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Use archive.ph to open most articles


https://archive.ph/3sHIu

[Ozyhibby]

168 students got into law at Edinburgh from Scotland all from the most deprived group. 555 from Scotland applied from different backgrounds, all got rejected. 70 students got in who paid 25k.

It's great the most deprived are getting in and I'd rather that than the opposite. But whilst universities are run as purely money making machines, a big portion of places will be kept for upper class foreign students

Surely there won’t be many foreign kids studying Scots Law?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Surely there won’t be many foreign kids studying Scots Law?


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70 foreign students and 170 Scots in first year. 555 Scots applied but didn't get in

[Ozyhibby]

70 foreign students and 170 Scots in first year. 555 Scots applied but didn't get in

Need to find out if this is just an Edinburgh thing?
More Scots kids than ever before going to uni so I suspect it is. Also ties in with the fact Edinburgh is much easier to get into in terms of marks than Glasgow these days. Kids all seem to prefer Glasgow as well.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Need to find out if this is just an Edinburgh thing?
More Scots kids than ever before going to uni so I suspect it is. Also ties in with the fact Edinburgh is much easier to get into in terms of marks than Glasgow these days. Kids all seem to prefer Glasgow as well.


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Edinburgh isn't easier but harder to get into for most subjects, minimum entry requirements are useless as a guide to entry. It's the much higher ranked university in most comparison tables also.

There's record number of uk students pretty much every year. There's less decent number less Scots than English that go to uni but that's probably due to higher wealth and ability to pay in down south. I wouldn’t change for there system in a second though

[archie]

Need to find out if this is just an Edinburgh thing?
More Scots kids than ever before going to uni so I suspect it is. Also ties in with the fact Edinburgh is much easier to get into in terms of marks than Glasgow these days. Kids all seem to prefer Glasgow as well.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI think the problem with your use of aggregate numbers is that it hides the difference between courses and institutions. Medicine at Edinburgh is clearly more significant than sociology at West of Scotland.

[Ozyhibby]

I think the problem with your use of aggregate numbers is that it hides the difference between courses and institutions. Medicine at Edinburgh is clearly more significant than sociology at West of Scotland.

I don’t think there is less Scottish Kids getting into Edinburgh. It appears to be that it’s just different Scottish kids getting in?


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[archie]

I don’t think there is less Scottish Kids getting into Edinburgh. It appears to be that it’s just different Scottish kids getting in?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWe've been over this. The number of Scottish students is capped. Over a third at Edinburgh are foregn students as are 40% at St Andrews. I like the idea of foreign students, but the funding system drives an over relience on foreign student fees.

[ronaldo7]

Massive interview last night with Derek Mackay on the ferries.

It must have gone well.

[Ozyhibby]

Massive interview last night with Derek Mackay on the ferries.

It must have gone well.

Yip, surely the Labour/Tory MSP’s went hard on the ferries at FMQ’s today?


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[ronaldo7]

Yip, surely the Labour/Tory MSP’s went hard on the ferries at FMQ’s today?


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Another smoking gun failing to fire. 🔥🎻

[He's here!]

Massive interview last night with Derek Mackay on the ferries.

It must have gone well.

Derek Mackay: CalMac ferry cost overruns a 'scandalous state of affairs' | STV News (https://news.stv.tv/politics/derek-mackay-calmac-ferry-cost-overruns-a-scandalous-state-of-affairs)

He claimed it was 'a scandalous state of affairs but not a scandal'. What's that supposed to mean?

[James310]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/derek-mackay-calmac-ferry-cost-overruns-a-scandalous-state-of-affairs?amp

He claimed it was 'a scandalous state of affairs but not a scandal'. What's that supposed to mean?

What was a scandal was him picking up over £100K in taxpayers cash after he resigned despite never actually attending parliament.

[marinello59]

Derek Mackay: CalMac ferry cost overruns a 'scandalous state of affairs' | STV News (https://news.stv.tv/politics/derek-mackay-calmac-ferry-cost-overruns-a-scandalous-state-of-affairs)

He claimed it was 'a scandalous state of affairs but not a scandal'. What's that supposed to mean?

I have no idea but if anybody knows about scandal it’s him. :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

From Paul Mainwood's twitter:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmRuVxwXoAM2PUW?format=png&name=medium

[Ozyhibby]

From Paul Mainwood's twitter:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmRuVxwXoAM2PUW?format=png&name=medium

Well done Humza.[emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]


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[ronaldo7]

From Paul Mainwood's twitter:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FmRuVxwXoAM2PUW?format=png&name=medium

According to his post, Scotland had a problem in December, and England disintegrated.

I think Wales are as bad or worse than England.

Thank goodness more money is going in again from the SG

[James310]

According to his post, Scotland had a problem in December, and England disintegrated.

I think Wales are as bad or worse than England.

Thank goodness more money is going in again from the SG

Thank goodness for Barnett which means as you say more money can go in to health, worth about £2K per person in Scotland. Why do you want to give up this extra funding again?

£1,963 per person more according to Scottish Government figures.

https://www.gov.scot/news/government-expenditure-revenue-scotland-2021-22/

[ronaldo7]

Thank goodness for Barnett which means as you say more money can go in to health, worth about £2K per person in Scotland. Why do you want to give up this extra funding again?

😂😂😂

Wrong thread Jamsie.

[Berwickhibby]

Well done Humza.[emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]


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You mean well done the Staff of the NHS ..not that useless clown Humza

[cabbageandribs1875]

Well done Humza.[emoji122][emoji122][emoji122]


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indeed :applause: doing a good job

[James310]

60 people a week are dying in Scotland due to A and E waiting times and Humza is doing a "good" job? Why can't all the politicians being doing a really bad job?

I really don't get this mindset of defending literally anything because it's Scottish.

[grunt]

I really don't get this mindset of defending literally anything because it's Scottish.

That's not the mindset on display though, is it?

Time for me to take a break from some posters on here.

[xyz23jc]

60 people a week are dying in Scotland due to A and E waiting times and Humza is doing a "good" job? Why can't all the politicians being doing a really bad job?

I really don't get this mindset of defending literally anything because it's Scottish.

Boom! Welcome! :thumbsup::greengrin:flag:

[Ozyhibby]

60 people a week are dying in Scotland due to A and E waiting times and Humza is doing a "good" job? Why can't all the politicians being doing a really bad job?

I really don't get this mindset of defending literally anything because it's Scottish.

You got a source for that figure?


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[Stairway 2 7]

You got a source for that figure?


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40 I'd read. Pretty similar to England and Wales

Edit says 40 here
https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/politicians-demand-action-40-people-28900640.amp

[James310]

You got a source for that figure?


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https://twitter.com/lailahpeel/status/1612801476639735810?t=7cNJX234qFWg9ooOGqOdpA&s=19
Deputy Chair of BMA Scotland.

Well done Humza indeed.

[Just Alf]

You got a source for that figure?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIt's veing reported in the news, although one medical person said the reporting was making it look like it was A&E issues when it's actually a mixture of long waiting lists, higher than expected death rates across a number of illnesses etc etc, and then all those varying figures getting rounded up into one number.

Like many people do when they want to get a point over using statistics, you can paint the picture you want with real numbers and selective reporting.

All that said, the NHS is definitely struggling across a number of areas and clearly needs improvements.

Edit.. it was someone from BMA Scotland

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/lailahpeel/status/1612801476639735810?t=7cNJX234qFWg9ooOGqOdpA&s=19
Deputy Chair of BMA Scotland.

Well done Humza indeed.

Looks like a guess.


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[James310]

Looks like a guess.


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Why do you think that?

What do these expert Doctors at the BMA know eh? We should just ignore them.

[He's here!]

Scottish teacher strikes to go ahead after offer deadline passes - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64252680)

16 consecutive days of strikes across the country going ahead. Not great news.

[He's here!]

168 students got into law at Edinburgh from Scotland all from the most deprived group. 555 from Scotland applied from different backgrounds, all got rejected. 70 students got in who paid 25k.

It's great the most deprived are getting in and I'd rather that than the opposite. But whilst universities are run as purely money making machines, a big portion of places will be kept for upper class foreign students

Ordinary Scots rejected by Edinburgh university, says MSP - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-64247475)

[ronaldo7]

Ordinary Scots rejected by Edinburgh university, says MSP - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-edinburgh-east-fife-64247475)

Students from Castlebrae our Leith academy getting into Edinburgh uni rather those from Stewart's Melville or Edinburgh academy widening opportunity for those in deprived areas.

A record number of young Scots going to uni

Where's the bad news?

[Ozyhibby]

Students from Castlebrae our Leith academy getting into Edinburgh uni rather those from Stewart's Melville or Edinburgh academy widening opportunity for those in deprived areas.

A record number of young Scots going to uni

Where's the bad news?

I agree but there should also be kids from Broughton, Royal High and Craigmount.


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[danhibees1875]

Students from Castlebrae our Leith academy getting into Edinburgh uni rather those from Stewart's Melville or Edinburgh academy widening opportunity for those in deprived areas.

A record number of young Scots going to uni

Where's the bad news?

That's not really fair either though, is it? If there's a limited number of places going to Scottish people, and there's a disproportionate push to get people from more deprived areas which squeezes the numbers from less deprived areas down to the point where they're struggling to get in then there's something equally as wrong with the system as we would have if there was a push to not let people from derived areas into universities.

I wonder if I got into Edinburgh before all of this took hold, or if I was classed as being part of their scheme for more deprived areas. A good few of us from my school got into Edinburgh fairly easily (unconditional offers after 5th year) thinking back.

[ronaldo7]

That's not really fair either though, is it? If there's a limited number of places going to Scottish people, and there's a disproportionate push to get people from more deprived areas which squeezes the numbers from less deprived areas down to the point where they're struggling to get in then there's something equally as wrong with the system as we would have if there was a push to not let people from derived areas into universities.

I wonder if I got into Edinburgh before all of this took hold, or if I was classed as being part of their scheme for more deprived areas. A good few of us from my school got into Edinburgh fairly easily (unconditional offers after 5th year) thinking back.

According to the report, the uni said they were making a sustained effort to widen access.

Maybe they'll change that again next year and balance things out.

[grunt]

According to the report, the uni said they were making a sustained effort to widen access.

It's the way of the world. On social media, people complain about EVERYTHING. Universities will be criticised whatever they do, even if they've made a concerted effort to widen access to local students.

Welcome to the future.

[Stairway 2 7]

Students from Castlebrae our Leith academy getting into Edinburgh uni rather those from Stewart's Melville or Edinburgh academy widening opportunity for those in deprived areas.

A record number of young Scots going to uni

Where's the bad news?

Leith doesn't qualify. So no kids from leith can do law at Edinburgh regardless of how good they do. I'd rather our system that England and its brilliant all these more deprived schools get places, but leith curry kids should have a chance too

[ronaldo7]

Leith doesn't qualify. So no kids from leith can do law at Edinburgh regardless of how good they do. I'd rather our system that England and its brilliant all these more deprived schools get places, but leith curry kids should have a chance too

Thanks for that.

This was the policy in England from 2016 where they were trying to widen access. I'm not sure if we're ever going to please everyone on this, but it's moving in the right direction imo.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/universities-told-to-reach-out-to-students-from-poorest-neighbourhoods-under-new-guidance

[He's here!]

'Dismissive' Scottish Government claim angers whisky industry | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23247577.dismissive-scottish-government-claim-angers-whisky-industry/)

Maybe one for another thread but this is a bizarre (patently untrue) claim by the SG...and something of an own goal when you consider the clout whisky carries as a leading Scottish export.

[Kato]

'Dismissive' Scottish Government claim angers whisky industry | HeraldScotland (https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23247577.dismissive-scottish-government-claim-angers-whisky-industry/)

Maybe one for another thread but this is a bizarre (patently untrue) claim by the SG...and something of an own goal when you consider the clout whisky carries as a leading Scottish export.Is it untrue when speaking from a health perspective? What is the difference if you consume one unit of whisky or one unit of vodka?

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[J-C]

Why do you think that?

What do these expert Doctors at the BMA know eh? We should just ignore them.

. 60 of those people will die just because of their wait in A&E.
More are coming to harm beyond this.

Guess all day long, zero facts in the number of deaths.

[Just Alf]

. 60 of those people will die just because of their wait in A&E.
More are coming to harm beyond this.

Guess all day long,zero facts in tge number if deathsEspecially as the BMA quite clearly stated it wasn't due to a wait in A & E but across the whole system.... so still bad, but pushing on an untrue agenda leaves wriggle room for government to side step the issue

[James310]

I forgot how it works, post on the Tory thread that 500 a week are dying because of the NHS and it's awful and shocking. Post similar on SNP thread and it's a guess, made up and untrue.

[Ozyhibby]

I forgot how it works, post on the Tory thread that 500 a week are dying because of the NHS and it's awful and shocking. Post similar on SNP thread and it's a guess, made up and untrue.

Show me where I’ve done that?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Surprised no conversations about the joint uk scot government freeports.

A lot of correct abuse when the tories announced the plan last year.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-64248082?at_link_type=web_link&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_link_id=CC3DC866-932B-11ED-9B97-800416F31EAE&at_campaign_type=owned&at_format=link&at_medium=social

[Ozyhibby]

Surprised no conversations about the joint uk scot government freeports.

A lot of correct abuse when the tories announced the plan last year.

It’s a terrible idea which the SNP don’t like but they have to do what is right for Scotland within the current set up. Freeport’s are a UK govt idea. There would be no point in saying we don’t want them when it’s UK tax that is being avoided. That would put Scotland at a disadvantage. So the SNP is making do the best they can with a bad idea designed to help rich people avoid tax.
Greens are correct to oppose. The SNP don’t have that luxury and need to make sure Scottish business is not put at a disadvantage to England.


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[Stairway 2 7]

It’s a terrible idea which the SNP don’t like but they have to do what is right for Scotland within the current set up. Freeport’s are a UK govt idea. There would be no point in saying we don’t want them when it’s UK tax that is being avoided. That would put Scotland at a disadvantage. So the SNP is making do the best they can with a bad idea designed to help rich people avoid tax.
Greens are correct to oppose. The SNP don’t have that luxury and need to make sure Scottish business is not put at a disadvantage to England.


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That could have been written by an snp lawyer, I salute you for your devotion. We're complicit but claiming no choice now. Scot gov have put out praise for them are you painting us as hostages.

As a ps, I thought you were all for slashing corporation tax like Ireland, aren't you a fan of this

[Ozyhibby]

That could have been written by an snp lawyer, I salute you for your devotion. We're complicit but claiming no choice now. Scot gov have put out praise for them are you painting us as hostages.

As a ps, I thought you were all for slashing corporation tax like Ireland, aren't you a fan of this

I’m not in favour of slashing anything, just in favour of making decisions ourselves. We could just as easily follow danish model as Irish model. In fact I think it’s more likely.
It’s well documented the SNP don’t like Freeport’s. The fact is, the UK govt is cutting tax and you think the SNP can say we don’t want that for Scotland because of our principles? They just can’t do it, especially when not doing it would not benefit the public purse in Scotland one bit.
The UK govt was putting a freeport in the north east that could have drawn business out of Scotland and left the SNP accused of failing Scottish business.
There is plenty of evidence of SNP opposition to this policy online if you care enough.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I’m not in favour of slashing anything, just in favour of making decisions ourselves. We could just as easily follow danish model as Irish model. In fact I think it’s more likely.
It’s well documented the SNP don’t like Freeport’s. The fact is, the UK govt is cutting tax and you think the SNP can say we don’t want that for Scotland because of our principles? They just can’t do it, especially when not doing it would not benefit the public purse in Scotland one bit.
The UK govt was putting a freeport in the north east that could have drawn business out of Scotland and left the SNP accused of failing Scottish business.
There is plenty of evidence of SNP opposition to this policy online if you care enough.


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So it's acceptable to sell Scottish workers rights for Scottish businesses gain. These freeports are an environmental disaster also. They can force non trade union workers and without living wage, but as long as the Scottish business owners don't lose out to England. That's project fear excuses, mass exodus of business.

It's all smoke and mirrors. The other freeports aren't creating huge business but are getting away with murky deals and standards. Horrible decision to have them in our nation, they should be fought against

Good article on them
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/17/freeport-turbocapitalism-tramples-over-british-democracy-teesside-plymouth

[Ozyhibby]

So it's acceptable to sell Scottish workers rights for Scottish businesses gain. These freeports are an environmental disaster also. They can force non trade union workers and without living wage, but as long as the Scottish business owners don't lose out to England. That's project fear excuses, mass exodus of business.

It's all smoke and mirrors. The other freeports aren't creating huge business but are getting away with murky deals and standards. Horrible decision to have them in our nation, they should be fought against

Good article on them
https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2022/aug/17/freeport-turbocapitalism-tramples-over-british-democracy-teesside-plymouth

I’m not disagreeing. It’s a terrible idea. They only really move business around inside the country. The SNP were in a difficult position though. They do not want to see Scottish jobs moving south. And that’s what would have happened. It’s mitigation for a bad idea. Something the SG have to do a lot of.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I’m not disagreeing. It’s a terrible idea. They only really move business around inside the country. The SNP were in a difficult position though. They do not want to see Scottish jobs moving south. And that’s what would have happened. It’s mitigation for a bad idea. Something the SG have to do a lot of.


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Jobs weren't moving down south that's the kind of things the tories say to Stoke fear in independence. Its selling out Scottish workers rights to give profits to Scottish businesses.

They aren't successful in Britain due to brexit and other factors

If England started sweatshops in the North would you want them here to prevent Scots moving to them

[Ozyhibby]

Jobs weren't moving down south that's the kind of things the tories say to Stoke fear in independence. Its selling out Scottish workers rights to give profits to Scottish businesses.

They aren't successful in Britain due to brexit and other factors

If England started sweatshops in the North would you want them here to prevent Scots moving to them

The Scottish version protects workers rights. The SG insisted on it.


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[Stairway 2 7]

The Scottish version protects workers rights. The SG insisted on it.


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I'd need to see the details because the greens are saying this is an erosion of workers and environmental standards, would obviously be happier if that wasn't so

[ronaldo7]

From the Holyrood publication.

So what's the difference between a green freeport and a freeport?

It partly comes down to the fact that some policy areas touched by the free zones are reserved. While, for example, most customs are in the hands of the Treasury, checks on animal, food and plant products are devolved. So too are some taxes, including business rates and land tax. Planning, meanwhile, is entirely devolved. Scottish ministers initially resisted the idea of freeports, saying that instead, Scotland should have greenports. After much discussion, and talk of possible rival proposals, a compromise was reached. Scotland won’t have freeports or greenports, but green freeports. Unlike in England, applicants here will need to show that they’re committed to reaching net-zero, and will offer high-quality employment paying at least the real living wage.

[Stairway 2 7]

Ross Greer says nothing in law just hard requirement for workers or environmental rights, he's wrong often though


Under the deal struck for Scottish freeports there are no hard requirements for the companies to meet climate targets or implement fair work practices. Warm words don't protect people and the environment from greedy corporations, legal obligations do. In this case there is plenty of the former and nowhere near enough of the latter

"Freeports will only benefit the super-rich and the big corporations who have pushed hardest for them. Local people and communities certainly won't see the benefit if precedent from across the world is anything to go by.”

There is nothing green about so-called green freeports. They are a failed and dated Tory gimmick which hands public cash over to multinational corporations. They offer big tax breaks to businesses while driving down terms and conditions for workers and risking significant damage to the environment.

"Where Freeports have been attempted they have only made regional inequality worse by moving jobs around the country, rather than creating new ones. Internationally, they have been consistently associated with crime, money-laundering, smuggling and low wages while driving down environmental standards.

[marinello59]

Ross Greer says nothing in law just hard requirement for workers or environmental rights, he's wrong often though


Under the deal struck for Scottish freeports there are no hard requirements for the companies to meet climate targets or implement fair work practices. Warm words don't protect people and the environment from greedy corporations, legal obligations do. In this case there is plenty of the former and nowhere near enough of the latter

"Freeports will only benefit the super-rich and the big corporations who have pushed hardest for them. Local people and communities certainly won't see the benefit if precedent from across the world is anything to go by.”

There is nothing green about so-called green freeports. They are a failed and dated Tory gimmick which hands public cash over to multinational corporations. They offer big tax breaks to businesses while driving down terms and conditions for workers and risking significant damage to the environment.

"Where Freeports have been attempted they have only made regional inequality worse by moving jobs around the country, rather than creating new ones. Internationally, they have been consistently associated with crime, money-laundering, smuggling and low wages while driving down environmental standards.

Ross Greer has nailed it.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/snp-westminster-leader-stephen-flynn-28931075?_ga=2.97612191.1851809018.1673634137-465886082.1644954395

SNP Westminster leader Stephen Flynn contradicts Nicola Sturgeon on controversial Cambo oil field

[J-C]

I forgot how it works, post on the Tory thread that 500 a week are dying because of the NHS and it's awful and shocking. Post similar on SNP thread and it's a guess, made up and untrue.


You posted that link as fact and the problem here is Lailah Peel is guessing the numbers of deaths due to people waiting and how long it's taking, there is no actual factual numbers from the NHS itself. It's just her reeling off numbers and having a rant.

[James310]

You posted that link as fact and the problem here is Lailah Peel is guessing the numbers of deaths due to people waiting and how long it's taking, there is no actual factual numbers from the NHS itself. It's just her reeling off numbers and having a rant.

"The Royal College of Emergency Medicine said the massive rise (in deaths) is down to a record number of patients being forced to wait over eight hours for care."

"Overall excess deaths in Scotland have spiralled since the height of the Covid pandemic, with over 100 people more than normal dying each week, eight per cent above the five-year average."

Let's just ignore the facts and likes of the BMA and the Royal College of Emergency Medicine etc.

Why is it described as a rant when if someone was having a go at the UK Government who have made a similar mess it would never be described as a rant.

[Berwickhibby]

"The Royal College of Emergency Medicine said the massive rise (in deaths) is down to a record number of patients being forced to wait over eight hours for care."

"Overall excess deaths in Scotland have spiralled since the height of the Covid pandemic, with over 100 people more than normal dying each week, eight per cent above the five-year average."

Let's just ignore the facts and likes of the BMA and the Royal College of Emergency Medicine etc.

Why is it described as a rant when if someone was having a go at the UK Government who have made a similar mess it would never be described as a rant.

So three Cheers for Humza 🙄

[Ozyhibby]

So three Cheers for Humza [emoji849]

Is he running the best health service in the UK or not?


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[Berwickhibby]

Is he running the best health service in the UK or not?


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Not according to the NHS staff I know

[Zambernardi1875]

Not according to the NHS staff I know

What are the extra 100 a week dying of?

[Ozyhibby]

Not according to the NHS staff I know

Ah well, if your mates say so then it must be true.[emoji849]


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[James310]

Is he running the best health service in the UK or not?


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I don't think we can really know one way or another as there is no like for like comparisons.

https://archive.ph/evav3

What we do know is it's the best funded NHS in the UK which I think everyone would agree is a good thing and let's hope it remains so.

[Berwickhibby]

Ah well, if your mates say so then it must be true.[emoji849]


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True enough for a Dr I know to pack it in here and move to New Zealand with her Dr Boyfriend…. Speaks volumes

[Stairway 2 7]

Is he running the best health service in the UK or not?


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£2000 per head a year more from barnett says we should. He isn't doing anything anyway the NHS is, its a disservice to give the buffoon credit.

You could see during covid that he generally didn't understand a lot of what he was saying. Remember he said people shouldn't go to soft play in different areas as it could lead to children being hospitalised with covid. He then said 10 kids were in hospital because of covid. He was warned for misinformation and fair play apologised for talking rubbish, but he's clearly just a figure head who doesn't have a clue. On that token he shouldn't personally be blamed for its failings as it will be nothing to do with him

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-57446887.amp

[marinello59]

Is he running the best health service in the UK or not?


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How low have you set the bar? :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

How low have you set the bar? :greengrin

It's the only bar ever set. But least its better than the worst government in decades that is in Westminster.

It works take no blame ever and supported by a cult. 12 years in power many areas devolved, 2000 a head more than England to spend, but as long as its better than England

[Ozyhibby]

It's the only bar ever set. But least its better than the worst government in decades that is in Westminster.

It works take no blame ever and supported by a cult. 12 years in power many areas devolved, 2000 a head more than England to spend, but as long as its better than England

It’s not a cult, it’s about picking the best option open to us. Tories run England poorly, Labour run Wales even worse.
That’s the three options put to Scots. Which should we pick? And no matter what you pick, they must work within the framework set by the largest party in England.
You suggest support for the SNP is a cult while suggesting voting for one of the others who perform worse?


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[Just Alf]

"The Royal College of Emergency Medicine said the massive rise (in deaths) is down to a record number of patients being forced to wait over eight hours for care."

"Overall excess deaths in Scotland have spiralled since the height of the Covid pandemic, with over 100 people more than normal dying each week, eight per cent above the five-year average."

Let's just ignore the facts and likes of the BMA and the Royal College of Emergency Medicine etc.

Why is it described as a rant when if someone was having a go at the UK Government who have made a similar mess it would never be described as a rant.So as per the BMA its not actually all about A&E waiting times.


Glad we all now agree, and also agree that the NHS is in desperate need of more support

[Stairway 2 7]

It’s not a cult, it’s about picking the best option open to us. Tories run England poorly, Labour run Wales even worse.
That’s the three options put to Scots. Which should we pick? And no matter what you pick, they must work within the framework set by the largest party in England.
You suggest support for the SNP is a cult while suggesting voting for one of the others who perform worse?


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Its a cult because people support it like a football team, back them when they are wrong or are useless. I've never treated a political party like that, they should all be criticised. I vote snp to try and get independence, but they are often useless.

[Just Alf]

It's the only bar ever set. But least its better than the worst government in decades that is in Westminster.

It works take no blame ever and supported by a cult. 12 years in power many areas devolved, 2000 a head more than England to spend, but as long as its better than EnglandNo one ever says this.... "it's OK because its better than England "?


It's better than down south on some metrics, worse in others.

[Stairway 2 7]

No one ever says this.... "it's OK because its better than England "?


It's better than down south on some metrics, worse in others.

They do to subjects all the time. We have shocking excess deaths in Scotland right now, worse than most of western Europe. The reply will be, well its better than England

[Ozyhibby]

Its a cult because people support it like a football team, back them when they are wrong or are useless. I've never treated a political party like that, they should all be criticised. I vote snp to try and get independence, but they are often useless.

I can accept the NHS needs massive reform. In fact I’m sure of it. What I’m also certain of is that reform costs money. Lots of it. Now the budget we have in Scotland is based on the budget in England. We can’t change that. It’s not in our power. If we want reform, we have to do it without spending any more money. I don’t think that’s possible. So we have to make do best we can.


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[James310]

I can accept the NHS needs massive reform. In fact I’m sure of it. What I’m also certain of is that reform costs money. Lots of it. Now the budget we have in Scotland is based on the budget in England. We can’t change that. It’s not in our power. If we want reform, we have to do it without spending any more money. I don’t think that’s possible. So we have to make do best we can.


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I think you said that last time and someone pointed out lots of examples of reforms that didn't need anything from anyone else, it's very convenient to always have someone or something to blame all the time.

The SNP have announced a the formation of A National Care Service for Scotland costing north of a billion pounds. Your favourite Minister Mr Yousaf described the move as "the most significant since the creation of the NHS". How can they do something as significant as the creation of the NHS when you say they are limited in what they can do?

Seems the SNP can do lots with the funds and the devolved powers they currently have. Can't keep blaming someone else forever.

[Just Alf]

They do to subjects all the time. We have shocking excess deaths in Scotland right now, worse than most of western Europe. The reply will be, well its better than EnglandAnd also, that despite that it's not good enough

[Stairway 2 7]

I can accept the NHS needs massive reform. In fact I’m sure of it. What I’m also certain of is that reform costs money. Lots of it. Now the budget we have in Scotland is based on the budget in England. We can’t change that. It’s not in our power. If we want reform, we have to do it without spending any more money. I don’t think that’s possible. So we have to make do best we can.


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Nhs budget has exploded, its not lack of money. £200 billion last year. Was steady at about £140 billion 5 years ago. The side of the brexit bus was wrong as were spending about £1 billion a week more on the NHS. Covid is the obvious answer but the spending was spiraling previous to it and the budget is for 180 billion for the next 3 years.

Snp have been in power throughout that. They can spend it how they wish, plus 2000 per head a year on top. We can’t blame down south for our nhs

[Stairway 2 7]

And also, that despite that it's not good enough

I wish that was the case, but your more critical than most

[Just Alf]

I wish that was the case, but your more critical than mostMaybe, I genuinely don't think I'm the only one though, often I think there's a wee bit of a defence mechanism appearing as a result of some posters being "negative" on SNP performance seem oblivious to similar poor performance from other governments..

[James310]

Maybe, I genuinely don't think I'm the only one though, often I think there's a wee bit of a defence mechanism appearing as a result of some posters being "negative" on SNP performance seem oblivious to similar poor performance from other governments..

Not sure that's the case, who is defending the Tories bad management of the NHS. I asked the other day why can't we agree they are all as bad as each other, but the general response back is well Humza is doing a great job and he gets clapping emojis and plaudits for running the best health service in the UK despite little evidence to prove that's the case.

[danhibees1875]

Its a cult because people support it like a football team, back them when they are wrong or are useless.

You clearly don't spend much time on the hibs related sections of hibs.net :wink:

[marinello59]

You clearly don't spend much time on the hibs related sections of hibs.net :wink:

:greengrin

[The Tubs]

Can't keep blaming someone else forever.


The Scots can and they will. The only way out of the conundrum is independence.

[Stairway 2 7]

You clearly don't spend much time on the hibs related sections of hibs.net :wink:

True football team is a bad apology as some live to hate hibs. Although there's more jambos than sit in the wheatfield on the main board, weird people

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64270691

22 further days of strike action announced by Scottish teaching unions - in addition to the forthcoming 16-day set of strikes.

[weecounty hibby]

Any links to where the Scottish government has successfully negotiated with unions to avert strike action?

[He's here!]

https://thinkscotland.org/2023/01/the-unremarkable-but-relentless-rise-of-nicola-sturgeon/

New book out.

[Ozyhibby]

https://thinkscotland.org/2023/01/the-unremarkable-but-relentless-rise-of-nicola-sturgeon/

New book out.

Looks riveting but think I’ll save my money.


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[marinello59]

Looks riveting but think I’ll save my money.


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Looks dreadful. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

Looks dreadful. :greengrin

Think he’s one of those guys who go on about North British and the like. Each to their own I guess.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Think he’s one of those guys who go on about North British and the like. Each to their own I guess.


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The only North British is a hotel. 😉

[Santa Cruz]

The only North British is a hotel. 😉

Been called the Balmoral for years.

[Moulin Yarns]

Been called the Balmoral for years.

For some, maybe, but it's the North British Hotel and its clock is permanently fast.

[SteveHFC]

SNP plan to ban alcohol logos on pint glasses as they step up war on booze.

https://twitter.com/ewmc1969/status/1614707092467638273?s=46&t=eztXqLqAHo0C6Gy6s9snow

[Hiber-nation]

SNP plan to ban alcohol logos on pint glasses as they step up war on booze.

https://twitter.com/ewmc1969/status/1614707092467638273?s=46&t=eztXqLqAHo0C6Gy6s9snow

I gave up after "Barmy SNP bigwigs".

[TrumpIsAPeado]

SNP plan to ban alcohol logos on pint glasses as they step up war on booze.

https://twitter.com/ewmc1969/status/1614707092467638273?s=46&t=eztXqLqAHo0C6Gy6s9snow

From a Scottish Sun article that doesn't contain a single quote from an SNP spokesperson to suggest anything that matches the article's claim. Not to mention that the article starts with "The nats....".

I swear, the media on this island. I notice the BBC are making absolutely no mention of Nadhim Zahawi's tax fraud, despite clearly being in the public interest. I'm sure Richard Sharp has absolutely nothing to do with that decision, no siree.

[Moulin Yarns]

SNP plan to ban alcohol logos on pint glasses as they step up war on booze.

https://twitter.com/ewmc1969/status/1614707092467638273?s=46&t=eztXqLqAHo0C6Gy6s9snow

I love the different glasses, campervan, beaverton and vocation some of my favourite

[grunt]

Mhairi Black:

https://twitter.com/MhairiBlack/status/1615109212534865922?s=20&t=k5B7Y3rACXjXDM5ZQ-4XYA


Ultimately, Trade Unions work and that is exactly why the Tories are going after them.

[Stairway 2 7]

Chief whip quits 6 weeks into job.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/martin-docherty-hughes-quits-snp-28974596.amp

[grunt]

Chief whip quits 6 weeks into job.

So what?

[Stairway 2 7]

So what?

Aggressive wierd post for an article being put up. It's political news

[James310]

So what?

A bit strong. Is he not allowed to post story's about the SNP on the thread about the SNP?

[J-C]

Aggressive wierd post for an article being put up. It's political news


A bit strong. Is he not allowed to post story's about the SNP on the thread about the SNP?


A non story, he stepped down due to time commitments and not political reasons, hence it's a non story.

[grunt]

Chief whip quits 6 weeks into job.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/martin-docherty-hughes-quits-snp-28974596.amp
Thank you for your post. What do you infer from this announcement? Do you think it shows the SNP in a bad light, another example of SNP mismanagement, or is it simply that the person has discovered he doesn't have the time for these additional duties?

[Stairway 2 7]

A non story, he stepped down due to time commitments and not political reasons, hence it's a non story.

I doubt he stepped down due to time commitments, he knew roughly what it would take 6 weeks ago. But I wasn't making that point its political news who the Westminster chief whip is, it'll now be Brendan O'Hara. Don't know much about him apart from he called rangers huns, which I like

[grunt]

Aggressive wierd post for an article being put up. It's political newsI admit it is possible to read this post as being aggressive although it was not intended as such. It was late so I cut to the essence of my response.


A bit strong. Is he not allowed to post story's about the SNP on the thread about the SNP?
I'm not aware my post contained any suggestion he should not have posted, I merely enquired what he thought about the announcement.

[grunt]

I doubt he stepped down due to time commitments, he knew roughly what it would take 6 weeks ago.
Isn't it a shame that nowadays people's first reaction is to disbelieve the politician's explanation?

[Stairway 2 7]

Thank you for your post. What do you infer from this announcement? Do you think it shows the SNP in a bad light, another example of SNP mismanagement, or is it simply that the person has discovered he doesn't have the time for these additional duties?

Don't really think much about it it's not huge news. I think the new whip is closer aligned to Stephen flynn. I think flynn and black can make a big impression. I think blackford and NS will look stale in 5 years or whenever the next referendum can be, I'd perhaps prefer the former two to front it

[Stairway 2 7]

Isn't it a shame that nowadays people's first reaction is to disbelieve the politician's explanation?

That's not a nowadays thing. Most things that politicians have been spouting for decades are full of spin pr and untruths. Political class are worth the watching

[James310]

Isn't it a shame that nowadays people's first reaction is to disbelieve the politician's explanation?

So when Nadhim Zahawi says his tax affairs are up to date your first reaction is to believe him? Or when Boris Johnson said he never partied in Downing Street your first reaction was he was telling the truth?

Or is it only certain political parties where it's a shame people's first reaction is to disbelieve their explanation.

[grunt]

So when Nadhim Zahawi says his tax affairs are up to date your first reaction is to believe him? Or when Boris Johnson said he never partied in Downing Street your first reaction was he was telling the truth?

Or is it only certain political parties where it's a shame people's first reaction is to disbelieve their explanation.
Perhaps you'd like to read this bit of the conversation again. You seem to have lost the plot.

[James310]

Perhaps you'd like to read this bit of the conversation again. You seem to have lost the plot.

So what did you mean when you said "Isn't it a shame that nowadays people's first reaction is to disbelieve the politician's explanation"

Were you referring to all politicans? Or you just happen to believe him for some unspecified reason?

[WeeRussell]

So when Nadhim Zahawi says his tax affairs are up to date your first reaction is to believe him? Or when Boris Johnson said he never partied in Downing Street your first reaction was he was telling the truth?

Or is it only certain political parties where it's a shame people's first reaction is to disbelieve their explanation.

I, and most people I know, would automatically assume Boris Johnson isn’t telling the truth given the form. I would naturally be more inclined to believe someone who I don’t know to be a proven serial liar, until I was given reason not to.

Is that wrong of me?

[grunt]

So what did you mean when you said "Isn't it a shame that nowadays people's first reaction is to disbelieve the politician's explanation"

Were you referring to all politicans? Or you just happen to believe him for some unspecified reason?It was a general comment about my perception that the quality of integrity in modern day politicians has significantly diminished. I put a lot of this down to Johnson and his lying cheating self-serving fascist cronies, but my comment was about how it has affected our views of all politicians.

[Bostonhibby]

It was a general comment about my perception that the quality of integrity in modern day politicians has significantly diminished. I put a lot of this down to Johnson and his lying cheating self-serving fascist cronies, but my comment was about how it has affected our views of all politicians.My views are pretty close to yours here, I think it has proliferated during the term of the current Nasty parties time in office and the acceleration of misconduct, increasing number of crooks and lies being the default position is down to Bozo surrounding himself, in the main, with people who to varying degrees are like him and would only stand up to him to save their own skin.

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[Hibrandenburg]

Chief whip quits 6 weeks into job.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/martin-docherty-hughes-quits-snp-28974596.amp

This is surely worth a thread of its own.

[Stairway 2 7]

This is surely worth a thread of its own.

Witty and insightful.

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64323872

Hopefully the SG won't be entrusted with the construction ;-)

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64323872

Hopefully the SG won't be entrusted with the construction ;-)

Another move towards direct rule from London. They have got rid of devolution in NI, Scotland is next.


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[grunt]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64323872

Hopefully the SG won't be entrusted with the construction ;-)Hilarious.

Meanwhile here's the estimated cost of one of the options for the restoration and rebuild of the Palace of Westminster.
£22 billion and up to 76 years to complete.

£22 billion.

https://assets.ctfassets.net/vuylkhqhtihf/13GvESTY51WbrDXnTNmf4O/970382358f0f199bb1f1ea8d4e0fb01b/Essential_Scheme_Initial_Assessment_of_Cost_and_Sc hedule_and_Continued_Presence_Impact_Study_Final.p df?utm_source=https://www.hansardsociety.org.uk

[Ozyhibby]

Hilarious.

Meanwhile here's the estimated cost of one of the options for the restoration and rebuild of the Palace of Westminster.
£22 billion and up to 76 years to complete.

£22 billion.

https://assets.ctfassets.net/vuylkhqhtihf/13GvESTY51WbrDXnTNmf4O/970382358f0f199bb1f1ea8d4e0fb01b/Essential_Scheme_Initial_Assessment_of_Cost_and_Sc hedule_and_Continued_Presence_Impact_Study_Final.p df?utm_source=https://www.hansardsociety.org.uk

Levelling up.[emoji6]


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[Bostonhibby]

Levelling up.[emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThe cost control around the palace of westminster fiasco makes the Nasty party's PPE payola for their pals look like shrewd financial management.
They were talking about the latest estimated completion costs being 12bn in Nov 21.
Good to see so many hefty donators to the nasties in this trough as well.

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[weecounty hibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64323872

Hopefully the SG won't be entrusted with the construction ;-)

Any links to the aircraft carriers progress at sea or Ajax armoured vehicles project progress?

[Jack]

Hilarious.

Meanwhile here's the estimated cost of one of the options for the restoration and rebuild of the Palace of Westminster.
£22 billion and up to 76 years to complete.

£22 billion.

https://assets.ctfassets.net/vuylkhqhtihf/13GvESTY51WbrDXnTNmf4O/970382358f0f199bb1f1ea8d4e0fb01b/Essential_Scheme_Initial_Assessment_of_Cost_and_Sc hedule_and_Continued_Presence_Impact_Study_Final.p df?utm_source=https://www.hansardsociety.org.uk

Westminster/UK Government was responsible for building the Scottish Parliament £40m estimate to over £400m final cost.

[Zambernardi1875]

Westminster/UK Government was responsible for building the Scottish Parliament £40m estimate to over £400m final cost.

All you’ve done is highlight the money wasted tarting up Westminster

[grunt]

Westminster/UK Government was responsible for building the Scottish Parliament £40m estimate ...No one ever remembers that the £40m figure so often cast up was made by the Scottish Office (so, yes, Westminster) before any location had been identified and before any plans drawn up for the building. A figure almost literally plucked from the air. But it was useful as a stick to hit Scotland with ... and it still is, as posters on here demonstrate.

[Kato]

No one ever remembers that the £40m figure so often cast up was made by the Scottish Office (so, yes, Westminster) before any location had been identified and before any plans drawn up for the building. A figure almost literally plucked from the air. But it was useful as a stick to hit Scotland with ... and it still is, as posters on here demonstrate.Any old angle will do, doesn't have to be accurate or even remotely factual. Nothing in the UK works properly, there is a lot more wrecking and wastefulness coming this year with the "bonfire of EU regulations" but the parochial vendettas must be adhered to.

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[He's here!]

Another move towards direct rule from London. They have got rid of devolution in NI, Scotland is next.


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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-64337970

Fair Isle residents seem pretty chuffed.

And in further good news for the islands...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-64330367

[Glory Lurker]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-64337970

Fair Isle residents seem pretty chuffed.

And in further good news for the islands...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-64330367

I'm sure they are.

Are you happy with the settled will of the Scottish people being undermined?

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-north-east-orkney-shetland-64337970

Fair Isle residents seem pretty chuffed.

And in further good news for the islands...

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-64330367

Second one is like the city deals where they are jointly funded and delivered by both governments, which is how it should be. The first one bypassing the Scottish Parliament is not how things should happen.

[Ozyhibby]

Second one is like the city deals where they are jointly funded and delivered by both governments, which is how it should be. The first one bypassing the Scottish Parliament is not how things should happen.

Indeed it is another example of ignoring democracy. We voted for the Scottish parliament to deal with devolved areas but it is being taken away from us without a vote.


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[McD]

No one ever remembers that the £40m figure so often cast up was made by the Scottish Office (so, yes, Westminster) before any location had been identified and before any plans drawn up for the building. A figure almost literally plucked from the air. But it was useful as a stick to hit Scotland with ... and it still is, as posters on here demonstrate.


perhaps I’ve got the wrong end of the stick, I’m sure Jack can clarify, I thought he was criticising WM rather than holyrood/Scotland in what he said…

[marinello59]

Second one is like the city deals where they are jointly funded and delivered by both governments, which is how it should be. The first one bypassing the Scottish Parliament is not how things should happen.

Maybe what we should be doing is questioning why the funding was not made available sooner for the Fair Isle ferry, the islanders have been asking for long enough. Politics is supposed to be about delivering for people, something that seems to be completely forgotten about as people concentrate on supporting their own political favourites. (See the ongoing ferry build saga, the islanders who have had their lives blighted by a second rate service are rarely given a thought. I may have mentioned this several times before. :greengrin )
If you have travelled to Fair Isle by sea you will know that it requires a specialised and therefore much more expensive vessel capable of making the sea passage from Shetland and servicing their small harbour. . There was a fair bit spent on infrastructure in the early 90s improving the jetties etc but what was really needed, even back then , is a proper Ro Ro service. I’m glad they are finally going to get one. I’d love to be there to join in the celebrations. :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Maybe what we should be doing is questioning why the funding was not made available sooner for the Fair Isle ferry, the islanders have been asking for long enough. Politics is supposed to be about delivering for people, something that seems to be completely forgotten about as people concentrate on supporting their own political favourites. (See the ongoing ferry build saga, the islanders who have had their lives blighted by a second rate service are rarely given a thought. I may have mentioned this several times before. :greengrin )
If you have travelled to Fair Isle by sea you will know that it requires a specialised and therefore much more expensive vessel capable of making the sea passage from Shetland and servicing their small harbour. . There was a fair bit spent on infrastructure in the early 90s improving the jetties etc but what was really needed, even back then , is a proper Ro Ro service. I’m glad they are finally going to get one. I’d love to be there to join in the celebrations. :greengrin

I saw the pictures of a car being lifted on or off the boat and flashed back to the early 1970s, going to Lewis and that's how they were loaded back then. Seems crazy nowadays. Don't suppose most goods go by plane?

[Ozyhibby]

Maybe what we should be doing is questioning why the funding was not made available sooner for the Fair Isle ferry, the islanders have been asking for long enough. Politics is supposed to be about delivering for people, something that seems to be completely forgotten about as people concentrate on supporting their own political favourites. (See the ongoing ferry build saga, the islanders who have had their lives blighted by a second rate service are rarely given a thought. I may have mentioned this several times before. :greengrin )
If you have travelled to Fair Isle by sea you will know that it requires a specialised and therefore much more expensive vessel capable of making the sea passage from Shetland and servicing their small harbour. . There was a fair bit spent on infrastructure in the early 90s improving the jetties etc but what was really needed, even back then , is a proper Ro Ro service. I’m glad they are finally going to get one. I’d love to be there to join in the celebrations. :greengrin

Let’s wait and see if they ever get it.


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[grunt]

Leader of Glasgow City Council not happy with levelling up funds allocation / process:


We’ve been analysing today’s so-called Levelling Up outcomes. In short, it’s nothing of the sort. It takes money away from deprived urban areas to give to wealthy towns. It blatantly targets resources away from some of the most socially & economically challenged communities

The value of Levelling Up projects in Scotland is £348m of which Glasgow has been awarded 3.7%. Based on our population share it should have been 3 times that. Based on the proportion of people living in Scotland’s most deprived communities it should be 15 times as much

This has turned out not to be the open bidding process we were told it would be. It has actually *cost* Glasgow money. Based on the evidence of these outcomes, we’ve major concerns the process has been seriously skewed & I’ve raised this with Michael Gove today

Nowhere offers a greater opportunity to level up than Glasgow. Yet some of the wealthiest areas of the country have been supported at the expense of areas with the greatest need. On every metric, the UK government has failed to level up and has failed Glasgow.