SNP are lying b******s as well !

[Moulin Yarns]

It would be consistent with your argument here, would it not, to also argue that the state pension should be means tested?

🤣🤣🤣

To be honest, I don't need the winter allowance but let's face it, who would turn down £300 before Christmas?

[Stairway 2 7]

It would be consistent with your argument here, would it not, to also argue that the state pension should be means tested?

I think 12k is a different discussion from 200. There is a range of benefits we give out to those in need and everyone needs justified. We aren't fully mitigating to two child benefit cap, for us to do that and not means test the winter fuel allowance. My parents have a bought house, and both have work pensions, they don't need this benefit just because they are old.

[Moulin Yarns]

There is costs over and above for all people that's obvious and doesn't really need said no? I said the mean average.. those under 11,300 get pension credit or those with caring responsibilities, disabilities and those that don't own their home.

I personally think it should be means tested, there is an argument for an increased cut off. Rich pensioners shouldn't get that benefit, I think Scot Gov is spot on even if it won't be popular

I hadn't noticed something you said here at the time but I've kinda already responded.


Rich pensioners?

I've already mentioned I get less state pension, ( £10,205) so I'm less of a burden on the state, but, by your reckoning I'm a rich pensioner. I reckon my assets, split between my wife and I, is around £500k, but most of that is locked up in property and non liquid assets. So, I have a small state pension, my wife's is a bit higher, but just because I am, theoretical, worth £250k I shouldn't get the winter fuel allowance, even though my electricity bill last year was about £5k and I own my house, jointly with my wife??


You want to penalise me for contributing to my workplace pension (taxed) and also deny me a benefit, even though I am less of a burden on the state? You are something else!!!!

[Moulin Yarns]

I hadn't noticed something you said here at the time but I've kinda already responded.


Rich pensioners?

I've already mentioned I get less state pension, ( £10,205) so I'm less of a burden on the state, but, by your reckoning I'm a rich pensioner. I reckon my assets, split between my wife and I, is around £500k, but most of that is locked up in property and non liquid assets. So, I have a small state pension, my wife's is a bit higher, but just because I am, theoretical, worth £250k I shouldn't get the winter fuel allowance, even though my electricity bill last year was about £5k and I own my house, jointly with my wife??


You want to penalise me for contributing to my workplace pension (taxed) and also deny me a benefit, even though I am less of a burden on the state? You are something else!!!!

Oh, hang on, you said we should sell our homes?!

I've lived here for 35 years, but naw, just throw that away so I have some cash!!

[Stairway 2 7]

I hadn't noticed something you said here at the time but I've kinda already responded.


Rich pensioners?

I've already mentioned I get less state pension, ( £10,205) so I'm less of a burden on the state, but, by your reckoning I'm a rich pensioner. I reckon my assets, split between my wife and I, is around £500k, but most of that is locked up in property and non liquid assets. So, I have a small state pension, my wife's is a bit higher, but just because I am, theoretical, worth £250k I shouldn't get the winter fuel allowance, even though my electricity bill last year was about £5k and I own my house, jointly with my wife??


You want to penalise me for contributing to my workplace pension (taxed) and also deny me a benefit, even though I am less of a burden on the state? You are something else!!!!

I didn't say you are rich i said some pensioners are, i didn't know your circumstances. So you've both got a state pension. You've said you have a private pension, i don't know if your wife does, you've a bought home and a business with an income. I definitely don't think you should get that benefit when we can't afford to fully fund the two child benefit cap to people with no house or job.

I'd like us all to get money but we have to set a budget and prioritise those most in need. It's a bit like saying why am I getting penalised for working hard and getting a high wage and then scot gov raised the top band of income tax. I don't buy it. If you've worked hard and now have a good life and don't have to pay a mortgage or rent enjoy it.

[Stairway 2 7]

Oh, hang on, you said we should sell our homes?!

I've lived here for 35 years, but naw, just throw that away so I have some cash!!

I didn't say you did that would be ludicrous as you don't need to. I was talking about people with 1 million in assets and I was joking as do you think any of them will sell up because they aren't getting £200. If you've managed to own £1 million in assets you've most probably got a private pension to top up the state pension.

[Moulin Yarns]

I didn't say you are rich i said some pensioners are, i didn't know your circumstances. So you've both got a state pension. You've said you have a private pension, i don't know if your wife does, you've a bought home and a business with an income. I definitely don't think you should get that benefit when we can't afford to fully fund the two child benefit cap to people with no house or job.

I'd like us all to get money but we have to set a budget and prioritise those most in need. It's a bit like saying why am I getting penalised for working hard and getting a high wage and then scot gov raised the top band of income tax. I don't buy it. If you've worked hard and now have a good life and don't have to pay a mortgage or rent enjoy it.

The first choice, and I know it is selfish, is the young person bus pass. From what I've heard there has been problems associated with it. Again, maybe some criteria for it's us,maybe time limits, I don't know.

Prescription? A voluntary payment of £10? As an older person I now have 3 repeat prescriptions, an annual payment of £100?

Both would go some way to releasing funds.

[marinello59]

Does asking for sanctions mean that diplomatic ties are severed?

No.
But it weakens the hand of those who are in favour of sanctions in an attempt to reign in Israel when others are discussing areas of mutual interest.

[Jack]

Yeah so they don't need extra benefits if a big pension pot

You do realise, or probably not, that pension pots are huge! It's what people need to live off for around 30 years!

Even a modest pension pot will be in the region of £350ķ. A lump sum the holder will never see in a single payment or have access to. It will be a payment of maybe £800 a month depending on who crashes the economy.

[Ozyhibby]

The first choice, and I know it is selfish, is the young person bus pass. From what I've heard there has been problems associated with it. Again, maybe some criteria for it's us,maybe time limits, I don't know.

Prescription? A voluntary payment of £10? As an older person I now have 3 repeat prescriptions, an annual payment of £100?

Both would go some way to releasing funds.

Yip, let’s go after the young again.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

You do realise, or probably not, that pension pots are huge! It's what people need to live off for around 30 years!

Even a modest pension pot will be in the region of £350ķ. A lump sum the holder will never see in a single payment or have access to. It will be a payment of maybe £800 a month depending on who crashes the economy.

800 per month so 9,600 a year on top of 10 to 12k per year state pension, no dependents to pay for and no rent or mortgage( as they will still receive the payment), your arguing for them to get a benefit when the 2 child cap can't be fully funded.

[Jack]

800 per month so 9,600 a year on top of 10 to 12k per year state pension, no dependents to pay for and no rent or mortgage( as they will still receive the payment), your arguing for them to get a benefit when the 2 child cap can't be fully funded.

The government choose to pay or not to pay all sorts of things. Its not a simple choice of not paying this because they can't or can pay for that.

The 2 child cap is a red herring. It's not being removed for political reasons, most of the electorate agree with the cap,rather than financial pressures, they don't have the money.

[Stairway 2 7]

The government choose to pay or not to pay all sorts of things. Its not a simple choice of not paying this because they can't or can pay for that.

The 2 child cap is a red herring. It's not being removed for political reasons, most of the electorate agree with the cap,rather than financial pressures, they don't have the money.

Of coy that is what a budget is. Scot gov get the amount they have and choose what they want prioritising most in need. They have decided not to fund this and I agree with them.

In this poll the majority agree 47% agree with stopping it 38% are against, as you can expect the younger groups agree more.

Surprising to me is 61% of Labour agree with it 42% tories 39% reform, whilst 25% Labour oppose 55% tories 52% reform.
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2024/07/30/65187/1

[Jack]

Reintroducing the prescription charge would be a nightmare.

When it was done away with only 9% of those getting a prescription actually paid for it.

The administration behind collecting this was huge. It wasn't just the collecting money that was the issue but the huge amount of fraud that went on that had to be tackled. The net gain was marginal.

Politically it was a nightmare. Single issue pressure groups were continually campaigning for this drug or that to be exempt from the charge while a panel of very expensive experts would meet regularly to review exemptions.

And probably most important are the health benefits. Many people now are taking preventive medicines meaning they'll be healthier for longer and end of life care, very expensive for the NHS, is shorter. The people this benefits the most are the people least likely to pay as they don't see the immediate health benefits. There would also those people who would, for many reasons, like putting food on their kids plate, wouldn't use general prescriptions.

Prescription charges are not a good idea or the way forward to improve the NHS or the health of the nation.

Edit. One on the first things the SNP did was doing away with the charge and it could easily be argued up there with the most important changes they made to make Scotland a better place to be,

[grunt]

No.
But it weakens the hand of those who are in favour of sanctions in an attempt to reign in Israel when others are discussing areas of mutual interest.
Maybe Robertson was telling Israel to ceasefire? That would be entirely in line with SNP pronouncements to date. The SNP have been far more vocal and for far longer than the other parties on the issue of Gaza.

[marinello59]

Maybe Robertson was telling Israel to ceasefire? That would be entirely in line with SNP pronouncements to date. The SNP have been far more vocal and for far longer than the other parties on the issue of Gaza.

Maybe.
We know that he discussed areas where Scotland could co-operate with Israel and the plight of the Israeli prisoners. (No mention of Palestinian prisoners in the press release)
Yes, the SNP have been vocal with senior figures calling for sanctions. All looks a bit hypocritical now doesn’t it? No wonder so many party members are livid.

[grunt]

Maybe.
We know that he discussed areas where Scotland could co-operate with Israel and the plight of the Israeli prisoners. (No mention of Palestinian prisoners in the press release)
Yes, the SNP have been vocal with senior figures calling for sanctions. All looks a bit hypocritical now doesn’t it? No wonder so many party members are livid.No.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0jpzqxzwp0o?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Lammy visits Israel to push for Gaza ceasefire

[marinello59]

No.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c0jpzqxzwp0o?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=twitter

Lammy visits Israel to push for Gaza ceasefire

You will need to expand on your argument here. What has this got to do with the SNP's actions? :confused:

[grunt]

You will need to expand on your argument here. What has this got to do with the SNP's actions? :confused:Really? Old age catching up with you?

Robertson has been getting grief for meeting an Israeli diplomat. And yet here's Lammy going to Israel to speak to the Israeli Government.

[marinello59]

Really? Old age catching up with you?

Robertson has been getting grief for meeting an Israeli diplomat. And yet here's Lammy going to Israel to speak to the Israeli Government.

Lammy is a Labour minister isn't he? So this is just a case of whataboutery. And not even very good whataboutery. I'm not seeing the bit where the main purpose of Lammy's visit is to work on areas of mutual co-operation such as culture and technology. Looks like he is part of a high level delegation pushing for a ceasefire. He is doing it in plain sight as well, not having a sneaky meeting and keeping it secret for 4 days. Maybe post this on the future of the Labour Party thread?
Why do you think so many senior and respected SNP figures are up in arms about what Robertson did?

[grunt]

Lammy is a Labour minister isn't he? So this is just a case of whataboutery. And not even very good whataboutery. No it's not. I dont see any difference between Robertson meeting with Israelis and Lammy meeting them.


I'm not seeing the bit where the main purpose of Lammy's visit is to work on areas of mutual co-operation such as culture and technology. Looks like he is part of a high level delegation pushing for a ceasefire. He is doing it in plain sight as well, not having a sneaky meeting and keeping it secret for 4 days. Was it kept secret? Didn't know that. So what?


Maybe post this on the future of the Labour Party thread?I think this is the right thread.


Why do you think so many senior and respected SNP figures are up in arms about what Robertson did?Are they? Or is that what you read in the press? Has Swinney spoken out against it?

[Stairway 2 7]

The national secretary of the SNP speaks. This is more than a few Internet murmurings, there is an anger from many around the SNP. To be fair many pro SNP voices were critical of Labour and the Tories having meetings with Israel so they are being consistent.

Lorna Finn
@LornaFinn

Disappointment doesn't begin to cover how I feel about a Minister and backbench MSP from my party meeting Israel's Depute Ambassador. In the midst of a genocide it is unconscionable and lends legitimacy to the action's of Netenyahu's government

[marinello59]

The national secretary of the SNP speaks. This is more than a few Internet murmurings, there is an anger from many around the SNP. To be fair many pro SNP voices were critical of Labour and the Tories having meetings with Israel so they are being consistent.

Lorna Finn
@LornaFinn

Disappointment doesn't begin to cover how I feel about a Minister and backbench MSP from my party meeting Israel's Depute Ambassador. In the midst of a genocide it is unconscionable and lends legitimacy to the action's of Netenyahu's government

:agree:
The baffling thing for me is just what Robertson though this meeting was going to achieve. The SNP were the most surefooted of Parties for over a decade, this is yet another mis-step.

[Andy Bee]

:agree:
The baffling thing for me is just what Robertson though this meeting was going to achieve. The SNP were the most surefooted of Parties for over a decade, this is yet another mis-step.

Yup, he should of told her to bolt at the very outset instead of trying to be the Scottish Kofi Annan. He should be sacked and quickly.

[grunt]

We're not going to get anywhere if we don't talk to them.

[Stairway 2 7]

A number of SNP big players now coming out against MPs, MSPs and former MSPs showing their distaste.

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,exclusive-angus-robertson-faces-snp-fury-over-israel-meeting-in-leaked-letter

[SteveHFC]

That’ll be John Mason’s career finished after what he posted on Twitter earlier.

https://x.com/johnmasonmsp/status/1824560329352941820?s=46&t=MW7rW9XsaY_rH0m4EYSRhg

[grunt]

A number of SNP big players now coming out against MPs, MSPs and former MSPs showing their distaste.

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,exclusive-angus-robertson-faces-snp-fury-over-israel-meeting-in-leaked-letterSeems to be some level of disquiet, I'll admit. I seem to have got this one very wrong.

[JimBHibees]

That’ll be John Mason’s career finished after what he posted on Twitter earlier.

https://x.com/johnmasonmsp/status/1824560329352941820?s=46&t=MW7rW9XsaY_rH0m4EYSRhg

That’s a statement and a half wow

[Andy Bee]

That’s a statement and a half wow

Wow, I despair, I really do. I read something written about John Mason the other day and how he's defending himself around also talking to the Ambassador using Ireland as an analogy and the old "you always have to keep talking" quip but this is on a different scale. What a muppet.

Robin McAlpine nails it again for me. https://robinmcalpine.org/driving-the-monkey-to-the-airport/

[Stairway 2 7]

John Mason MSP has the whip removed. Don't think it'll deflect from Robertson or Swinney backing him

[marinello59]

John Mason MSP has the whip removed. Don't think it'll deflect from Robertson or Swinney backing him

That was the easy one to deal with.
Robertson is a real problem for Swinney, he can't sack him as he sanctioned the meeting.

[jamie_1875]

Bit of a cryptic message from Joanna Cherry today.

"Angus Robertson will not resign or be sacked. He holds a very protected position within the SNP. Those of an inquiring disposition should ask why this should be so"

Protected by who and from what? What is she suggesting here?

[Stairway 2 7]

Bit of a cryptic message from Joanna Cherry today.

"Angus Robertson will not resign or be sacked. He holds a very protected position within the SNP. Those of an inquiring disposition should ask why this should be so"

Protected by who and from what? What is she suggesting here?

Mad that he's not been booted or then again maybe not, as it's being said that Swinney green lit it

[Moulin Yarns]

Went to see Mhairi Black at the fringe today. Westminster sounds a hoot and there are some long established snp mps who are too comfortable at Westminster.

Get along if you can get a ticket.

[Berwickhibby]

Went to see Mhairi Black at the fringe today. Westminster sounds a hoot and there are some long established snp mps who are too comfortable at Westminster.

Get along if you can get a ticket.

Would not give the parasite my money

[Moulin Yarns]

Would not give the parasite my money

Nobody asked you to, the audience loved it though.

No accounting for taste. 😉

The hate she got from Ian Murray and Paul sweeney might have opened your eyes to the labour party view on mental health as well!!!!

[Kato]

Would not give the parasite my moneyYou already have.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Berwickhibby]

You already have.

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Not through choice ….unfortunately

[Kato]

Not through choice ….unfortunatelyDamn that democratic system. Not to worry, not long now ...


....looking on the good side violet eLizabeth Trussbot will probably lose her pension, looking on the bad she'll probably be back as Home Office Furher.

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[grunt]

Mad that he's not been booted or then again maybe not, as it's being said that Swinney green lit itMad that she's not been booted.

[Kato]

Whether they are lying or not what use are the SNP now given global geopolitics have completely overtaken events? They are a voice against the fash I suppose but who listens or takes them seriously?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[JimBHibees]

Would not give the parasite my money

Parasite ? Would suggest one of the least guilty of that in the Westminster gravy train

[Moulin Yarns]

Parasite ? Would suggest one of the least guilty of that in the Westminster gravy train

Undoubtedly. The show she does at the fringe opens one's eyes to the Commons.

Also, if she is a parasite, she's not, why stand down at the election.

[JimBHibees]

Undoubtedly. The show she does at the fringe opens one's eyes to the Commons.

Also, if she is a parasite, she's not, why stand down at the election.

Yep completely unfair and unnecessary abuse

[Berwickhibby]

Yep completely unfair and unnecessary abuse

Described as the laziest MP in parliament https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-mhairi-black-westminsters-laziest-mp/

[JimBHibees]

Described as the laziest MP in parliament https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-mhairi-black-westminsters-laziest-mp/

By the spectator

[Berwickhibby]

By the spectator

Facts are facts on the actual hours spent on debate and attendance

[marinello59]

Mad that he's not been booted or then again maybe not, as it's being said that Swinney green lit it

Swinney did green light it.
Which makes the decision by some members to call for Robertson to be suspended whilst an investigation takes place yet another act of self sabotage by the SNP. If Robertson goes then Swinney has to go as well. It's amazing how quickly the SNP have gone from one of the most disciplined parties we have ever seen to an utter shambles in such a short time. And this latest act of self harm is over yet another issue that has nothing to do with Independence, lessons are not being learned.

[Kato]

Facts are facts on the actual hours spent on debate and attendanceThe article doesn't mention actual hours spent on debate or attendance, at all.

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[CropleyWasGod]

The article doesn't mention actual hours spent on debate or attendance, at all.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

....or members of other parties.

[Hiber-nation]

Described as the laziest MP in parliament https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-mhairi-black-westminsters-laziest-mp/

As a Labour supporter, why are you sharing a link to a far right rag?

[Moulin Yarns]

Facts are facts on the actual hours spent on debate and attendance

And that's repeating the abuse from Murray and sweeney. She was absent on strict doctors orders. If only there was some remote voting system!

[Stairway 2 7]

Peak fares to be reintroduced to Scottish railways as not enough people shifted from car to train to justify it, shame for morning commuters

@louisewilso
The Scottish Government has confirmed peak rail fares will return at the end of next month.

An "anytime" ticket between Glasgow and Edinburgh will almost double from the current £16.20 to a whopping £31.40

[McSwanky]

Described as the laziest MP in parliament https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/is-mhairi-black-westminsters-laziest-mp/

Have you actually read that article? It's not that long....

[Ozyhibby]

Isn’t the parliaments laziest MP always going to be an SNP mp as they don’t vote or take part in debates that are England only?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Facts are facts ...
:greengrin

[marinello59]

Isn’t the parliaments laziest MP always going to be an SNP mp as they don’t vote or take part in debates that are England only?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

There are so many reasons why MPs can't be present in the Chamber all the time, it's a ridiculous comparison to try and make. There are more than a few I'd be happy to see stay away. :greengrin

[hibee]

Peak fares to be reintroduced to Scottish railways as not enough people shifted from car to train to justify it, shame for morning commuters

@louisewilso
The Scottish Government has confirmed peak rail fares will return at the end of next month.

An "anytime" ticket between Glasgow and Edinburgh will almost double from the current £16.20 to a whopping £31.40

Sounds like they’ve given up, nearly doubling the price isn’t really going to attract more customers, more likely that they will reduce further.

[Ozyhibby]

Sounds like they’ve given up, nearly doubling the price isn’t really going to attract more customers, more likely that they will reduce further.

Think they just don’t have the money.


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[Just Alf]

Think they just don’t have the money.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkCurrently subsidising it to the tune of £40 million or so, I'm guessing other priorities are higher on the list

[hibee]

Think they just don’t have the money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Makes sense especially if it’s not encouraging new users and the only people benefiting from the cheap prices will continue to use it anyway.

[Jack]

It's a real shame the small subsidy for Scottish rail users didn't work out. If successful it would have surely been copied around the rest of the UK bringing our fares more into line with other nations around the world.

Still I'm sure rail travellers already get great value from the £11 billion subsidy from the UK government 🙄 That's down £6ish billion during covid but double what it was before.

Or does that just go to pay off the operating companies shareholders?

Long distance it's often cheaper hiring a car or flying than letting the train pile on the strain.

The UK railways need a reset.

[weecounty hibby]

It's not just the railways that need a reset its the whole mass transit system. Busses, trams, trains. Busses need to connect to trains and trams at the times people want to use them. They need to all be clean and comfy and at a cost that can be afforded. They also need to be in public hands as otherwise there us no appetite for companies to run unprofitable routes. No shareholders to keep in the money so any profit can be reinvested.

[Sylar]

Passenger numbers on Scotrail will absolutely plummet from September with his announcement. Higher prices, continued lack of reliability (with no end to this 'temporary timetable' in sight) = more people back in cars. Busier roads, more emissions, probably resulting in a spike in fuel prices as demand increases. And in September too, when most folks will start turning to their heating systems again - a double whammy of increased outgoings to household bills.

Incentivising public transport should be a flagship policy if this government are serious in any way about achieving their climate targets. It's increasingly clear they're not.

You simply cannot introduce punitive policies such as LEZs and not counter that with an increased offering of alternative transport options to incentivise those who do not have conforming vehicles to leave them out of urban centres. At the same time you introduce an LEZ in Glasgow for example, it is absolute stupidity to gut the nightbus service, reduce the Subway offerings (despite spending millions on a new fleet), not run rail services to a reasonable hour on many routes/to major events (e.g., finishing at 6pm during TRNSMT, not running after Summer Sessions at Bellahouston Park), and now make it prohibitively expensive for many to use for the purposes of commuting to work. Anyone who works in the nighttime economy or has an early gig at a factory, cleaning an office etc has very limited options on public transport for getting into work or back home.

If you want to see a modal shift away from private cars as the primary form of transport, you have to make a system that works. Inexpensive, reliable, pleasant for the passenger, connected, worthwhile. I'm always envious looking at the systems in France/Germany. A low monthly cost provides unlimited travel (exceptions apply on faster train services) - major events operate whereby your event ticket = a free public transport ticket, and many services run near to (if not) 24 hours. I know this costs money, I'm not stupid, but if you incentivise transport like this, many commuters will opt to use it. I know it's no silver bullet - I believe car numbers in Germany/France are still stubbornly high, but the option offers significant advantages for driving post-work activities in urban centres.

The Scottish Government seem to be having issues working out where to invest the budget they have, identifying many areas recently where the money doesn't exist - LAs struggling, culture funding slashed, free asylum seeker bus passes scrapped, peak fare subsidies scrapped, winter fuel allowance scrapped, a new recruitment freeze to ScotGov and supporting civil service, travel allowance for civil servants scrapped*...all extremely alarming.

*Edited to add, it was a friend of mine who works as a civil servant with the SG who told me this - if this doesn't apply to all civil servants in Scotland, I'll retract and apologise!

[grunt]

The Scottish Government seem to be having issues working out where to invest the budget they have, identifying many areas recently where the money doesn't exist - LAs struggling, culture funding slashed, free asylum seeker bus passes scrapped, peak fare subsidies scrapped, winter fuel allowance scrapped, a new recruitment freeze to ScotGov and supporting civil service, travel allowance for civil servants scrapped...all extremely alarming.
You're so very close. What does this all tell you?

[Ozyhibby]

You're so very close. What does this all tell you?

There are more cuts to come. Starmer has made clear austerity is the way forward.


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[Sylar]

You're so very close. What does this all tell you?

I'm under no illusion the money coming in is being impacted by reductions in budgets and likely austerity from WM. I have a reasonable understanding of how Government financing works.

But perhaps, if so many crucial areas are failing, it's time to have a wholesale look at the portfolio and where money is being committed. To me, public transport (much like childcare, which the SNP have recognised and invested in) is essential for workers. That, to me, makes more sense than spending £42 million on office space to showcase Scottish tech startups over in San Francisco (for example).

When household budgets get squeezed, most people assess their outgoings and revise their spending accordingly. There's nothing wrong with Governments taking the same steps when their income dwindles.

[marinello59]

Passenger numbers on Scotrail will absolutely plummet from September with his announcement.

Sorry to cut so much out of your post. :greengrin

This was a temporary pilot scheme designed to see if offering cheaper fares at peak times would encourage more people to take the train. It didn't. Numbers would only plummet if the scheme had been a success, it wasn't. Well done to the Scottish Government for trying but if a £40 million subsidy isn't making the difference hoped for then it's time to cut the losses and head back to the drawing board

[grunt]

But perhaps, if so many crucial areas are failing, it's time to have a wholesale look at the portfolio and where money is being committed. To me, public transport (much like childcare, which the SNP have recognised and invested in) is essential for workers. That, to me, makes more sense than spending £42 million on office space to showcase Scottish tech startups over in San Francisco (for example).

Yeah, who wants startup companies anyway?

It's a conundrum - we need infrastructure to support workers - but we need growth too. Austerity has done so much damage to the country. We need to invest to grow. More taxes, targeted at those most able to pay. Tax big businesses who currently avoid tax, have a wealth tax on billionaires and multi-millionaires. We need Labour to do that, or to give us the power to do it for ourselves.

[grunt]

Sorry to cut so much out of your post. :greengrin

This was a temporary pilot scheme designed to see if offering cheaper fares at peak times would encourage more people to take the train. It didn't. Numbers would only plummet if the scheme had been a success, it wasn't. Well done to the Scottish Government for trying but if a £40 million subsidy isn't making the difference hoped for then it's time to cut the losses and head back to the drawing board
Rare "agrees with Marinello moment". :agree:

[grunt]

When household budgets get squeezed, most people assess their outgoings and revise their spending accordingly. There's nothing wrong with Governments taking the same steps when their income dwindles.
Sorry for the dual posting but I missed this bit.

The big difference here is that WM has the means to increase "their income". Put in place a tax strategy that is fairer, more progressive. What the Labour WM Government needs to do is to learn from the small steps the SNP Scottish Government has taken towards a more progressive tax strategy.

[Sylar]

Sorry to cut so much out of your post. :greengrin

This was a temporary pilot scheme designed to see if offering cheaper fares at peak times would encourage more people to take the train. It didn't. Numbers would only plummet if the scheme had been a success, it wasn't. Well done to the Scottish Government for trying but if a £40 million subsidy isn't making the difference hoped for then it's time to cut the losses and head back to the drawing board

It did though - numbers rose by 6.8% according to the official report. Scottish Government said it needed to rise by 10% for it to be worthwhile continuing to put the subsidy into. Would it have gotten there without all of the disruption via strikes, temporary timetables, early finishing of trains on many routes, overcrowded services...I guess we don't know, but Scotrail acknowledged earlier this year they were seeing a reduction in passenger numbers as a result of it so to include this in the trial period is a bit disengenuous to me.

OK, fair enough, back to the drawing board. There are better things they could (and should) be doing to invest in transport. If this wasn't it (and I agree, it wasn't a silver bullet), I'm really keen to hear what the plan is now - because going back to the previous model of exorbitant peak fares simply based on the virtue of archaic working hours is punitive to commuters and workers. The 20% discount for 12 months on flexipasses certainly isn't going to result in modal shifts!

I'd love see a CBA on introducing a similar model to the one I mentioned earlier in France and Germany. Again, it's no magical solution either (as car remains the primary source of transport in both countries) but it's a damned good one.

[Sylar]

Yeah, who wants startup companies anyway?

It's a conundrum - we need infrastructure to support workers - but we need growth too. Austerity has done so much damage to the country. We need to invest to grow. More taxes, targeted at those most able to pay. Tax big businesses who currently avoid tax, have a wealth tax on billionaires and multi-millionaires. We need Labour to do that, or to give us the power to do it for ourselves.

Not the crux of my point, but you know that...of course startups are valuable in a digital eocnomy, but is investing that type of money, overseas, in a place where property values are sky high, really benefiting the people of Scotland on a daily basis - their growth and taxes paid certainly don't benefit Scotland's bottom line. There's a conversation about value and benefit to be had, and there are many investments in the Scottish Government portfolio over their years in power that could be assessed to determine where current needs are being met vs where expenditure is being allocated. That was just one example I happened to be familiar with.


Sorry for the dual posting but I missed this bit.

The big difference here is that WM has the means to increase "their income". Put in place a tax strategy that is fairer, more progressive. What the Labour WM Government needs to do is to learn from the small steps the SNP Scottish Government has taken towards a more progressive tax strategy.

I don't disagree with you on that.

[grunt]

Imagine if this story was about ferries ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GVucLx_WsAASiRV?format=jpg&name=medium

[Stairway 2 7]

Imagine if this story was about ferries ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GVucLx_WsAASiRV?format=jpg&name=medium

Tories eh. I'm glad of evey overspend though as with Barnett we get our share to spend on what we want

[Berwickhibby]

Popcorn 🍿 time again https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-probing-senior-civil-servant-33567997

[Andy Bee]

Popcorn 🍿 time again https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-probing-senior-civil-servant-33567997

I thought you'd be busy watching the SNP conference BH? :greengrin

[Berwickhibby]

I thought you'd be busy watching the SNP conference BH? :greengrin

Rather attend the dentist and get root canal than watch that lol 😂

[grunt]

Popcorn 🍿 time again https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/police-probing-senior-civil-servant-33567997
Salmond becomes more like Farage with each passing day.

[Stairway 2 7]

What we knew, Scotland's water outflows are criminally under checked. Only 8% checked in Scotland compared to almost 100 in England

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/article/2024/sep/04/sewage-in-scotlands-rivers-and-beaches-far-more-widespread-than-realised?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Sewage in Scotland’s rivers and beaches far more widespread than realised
Thousands of undisclosed sewage overflow incidents mean Scotland needs tougher regulations, says watchdog

[marinello59]

I dismissed this as a non-story at the time but initially lying his way out of it is yet another example of the utter contempt some of our politicians have for us.

https://news.sky.com/story/scottish-health-secretary-neil-gray-admits-he-was-in-the-queue-for-oasis-tickets-during-conference-meeting-13209932

[Hiber-nation]

I dismissed this as a non-story at the time but initially lying his way out of it is yet another example of the utter contempt some of our politicians have for us.

https://news.sky.com/story/scottish-health-secretary-neil-gray-admits-he-was-in-the-queue-for-oasis-tickets-during-conference-meeting-13209932

They keep promoting the likes of Gray to senior positions, people who can't be trusted. Matheson was another of course. They just don't seem to realise the consequences of doing stuff like this.

[grunt]

Still, ferries eh?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GXm69AGXEAA7-gp?format=jpg&name=medium

[jamie_1875]

Still, ferries eh?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GXm69AGXEAA7-gp?format=jpg&name=medium

Can't both be badly managed and run by incompetent people and governments?

[Stairway 2 7]

Can't both be badly managed and run by incompetent people and governments?

Good thing is HS2 is an English project so we just get the Barnett allocation to spend on what we want, I hope hs2 spirals further

[MartinfaePorty]

Surely not, as, given the early statements and actions of the Starmer government, this would impact the overall budget spend on other areas?

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[grunt]

Can't both be badly managed and run by incompetent people and governments?I suppose my issue is that it's a question of scale, and relative media coverage.

[JimBHibees]

I suppose my issue is that it's a question of scale, and relative media coverage.

Absolutely

[Stairway 2 7]

I suppose my issue is that it's a question of scale, and relative media coverage.

I doubt anyone down south knows about the ferries as its a Scottish issue, but they will all know about HS2 disaster. Vice versa here as HS2 has nothing to do with Scotland bar be get the cash for our portion, although I'd say everyone in Scotland knows about the HS2 farce.

[Moulin Yarns]

I doubt anyone down south knows about the ferries as its a Scottish issue, but they will all know about HS2 disaster. Vice versa here as HS2 has nothing to do with Scotland bar be get the cash for our portion, although I'd say everyone in Scotland knows about the HS2 farce.

You're going to have to explain what benefits Scotland gets from HS2? Not including Barnett consequential, please?

[Stairway 2 7]

You're going to have to explain what benefits Scotland gets from HS2? Not including Barnett consequential, please?

Eh how can you say not including barnett consequential 😆

We get our proportion to spend on whatever we want. How can you get a more direct benefit than hard currency

[Moulin Yarns]

Eh how can you say not including barnett consequential 😆

We get our proportion to spend on whatever we want. How can you get a more direct benefit than hard currency

I'm pretty clear. What benefit would HS2 bring to Scotland, say in passenger service or freight?

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm pretty clear. What benefit would HS2 bring to Scotland, say in passenger service or freight?

I'm pretty clear it's nothing to do with us likewise the new Barcelona to Madrid line. We get the direct proportion given to us, if we wanted increased rail facilities we could use the billions we got from it on that

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm pretty clear it's nothing to do with us likewise the new Barcelona to Madrid line. We get the direct proportion given to us, if we wanted increased rail facilities we could use the billions we got from it on that

You could just as easily describe the process as, England use funds raised in Scotland to build an England only infrastructure project that will benefit England only for years to come and then pay it back to Scotland interest free.

Has there been any examples of Scotland borrowing money from the rest of the UK for projects in Scotland and then paying it back interest free?

[Stairway 2 7]

You could just as easily describe the process as, England use funds raised in Scotland to build an England only infrastructure project that will benefit England only for years to come and then pay it back to Scotland interest free.

Has there been any examples of Scotland borrowing money from the rest of the UK for projects in Scotland and then paying it back interest free?

You 100% couldn't say that. It's increased spending and Scotland gets a disproportionately high amount back through Barnett.

We also voted for devolution and then voted to remain in the UK. 10 years later and yesterday's yougov poll was 44% yes 56% no. The people clearly want this arrangement unfortunately.

We got a higher proportion than population size of the moneys spent on Hs2 so far. We could high speed the Edinburgh Glasgow line or spend it on health or education, that's devolution

[JimBHibees]

You 100% couldn't say that. It's increased spending and Scotland gets a disproportionately high amount back through Barnett.

We also voted for devolution and then voted to remain in the UK. 10 years later and yesterday's yougov poll was 44% yes 56% no. The people clearly want this arrangement unfortunately.

We got a higher proportion than population size of the moneys spent on Hs2 so far. We could high speed the Edinburgh Glasgow line or spend it on health or education, that's devolution

How much higher disproportionately? In comparison to whom

[grunt]

10 years later and yesterday's yougov poll was 44% yes 56% no. The people clearly want this arrangement unfortunately.
I have some significant questions / doubts about that YouGuv survey. Some of the questions were heavily biased against independence IMO. Still, it makes interesting - if depressing - reading.

https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/50536-scottish-independence-10-years-on

[Hibrandenburg]

You 100% couldn't say that. It's increased spending and Scotland gets a disproportionately high amount back through Barnett.

We also voted for devolution and then voted to remain in the UK. 10 years later and yesterday's yougov poll was 44% yes 56% no. The people clearly want this arrangement unfortunately.

We got a higher proportion than population size of the moneys spent on Hs2 so far. We could high speed the Edinburgh Glasgow line or spend it on health or education, that's devolution

No it's pretty much the same.

We can only spend when England spend and if we don't spend then we have to hand it back. We can't make ambitious infrastructure plans or any other for that matter, as a country we live hand to mouth. Can we dip into the pot if we want to, can we create increased spending?

[Stairway 2 7]

No it's pretty much the same.

We can only spend when England spend and if we don't spend then we have to hand it back. We can't make ambitious infrastructure plans or any other for that matter, as a country we live hand to mouth. Can we dip into the pot if we want to?

We can only spend what the uk government spends our percentage on devolved things we literally chose this in a vote, you or me can disagree with this but Scotland chose it. We can do ambitious infrastructure plans if we want hs2 cost over 100 bil, we got almost 10% of this to spend as we wish. The A9 duelling is estimated to cost over £4 billion

[Kato]

I doubt anyone down south knows about the ferries as its a Scottish issue, but they will all know about HS2 disaster. Vice versa here as HS2 has nothing to do with Scotland bar be get the cash for our portion, although I'd say everyone in Scotland knows about the HS2 farce.The way the press has worked both issues I reckon the £450 million cost of the ferries has been used against the SNP way more than the £100 billion cost of HS2 has been used against the Tories.

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[jamie_1875]

No it's pretty much the same.

We can only spend when England spend and if we don't spend then we have to hand it back. We can't make ambitious infrastructure plans or any other for that matter, as a country we live hand to mouth. Can we dip into the pot if we want to, can we create increased spending?

Don't the Scottish Government tell us how by increasing taxes for the better paid it increases spending on the NHS and other public services?

https://www.gov.scot/news/tax-changes-to-support-scotlands-vital-public-services/

"The Scottish Fiscal Commission estimates that the tax decisions made in Scotland since income tax powers were devolved could raise around £1 billion more in 2023-24 compared to the income tax policy decisions made by the UK Government"

The Queensferry Crossing was a hefty bit of Infrastructure and cost £1.3BN (delivered on time and under budget if I remember)

I agree borrowing powers are extremely limited though, but the SNP announced some type of bond that was supposed to raise funds but it disappeared somewhere along the line.

https://www.gov.scot/news/government-bonds-to-issue-in-first-for-scotland/

"The Scottish Government will take steps to issue its first ever bond to finance key infrastructure in Scotland, the First Minister has announced."

[Andy Bee]

Another pretty scathing opinion piece from Robin McAlpine. This guy aint holding back lately for better or worse who knows?

https://robinmcalpine.org/the-snp-must-get-rid-of-sturgeon/

[J-C]

Another pretty scathing opinion piece from Robin McAlpine. This guy aint holding back lately for better or worse who knows?

https://robinmcalpine.org/the-snp-must-get-rid-of-sturgeon/

He has a hatred for all things SNP and will always write and say negativity re them.

[Andy Bee]

I suppose the question J-C is, is it warranted?

[J-C]

I suppose the question J-C is, is it warranted?

Some possibly but just the usual **** stirring anti independence journalism we've come to expect.

[jamie_1875]

Some possibly but just the usual **** stirring anti independence journalism we've come to expect.

Isn't he a supporter of Independence?

[J-C]

Isn't he a supporter of Independence?

Bizarre way of showing it then.

He was a director of Common Weal and a researcher for Labour MP George Robertson, he was asked to resign after criticism of Sturgeon.

[Stairway 2 7]

Isn't he a supporter of Independence?

Yes very much so and saying he's anti independence for the above article shows the unhealthy hold Sturgeon and her husband had with the independence movement as a whole. Independence shouldn't be about one party or person. The cost is if Murrell gets found guilty of paying fake businesses it could look bad for independence, when it actually has nothing to do with the movement

[jamie_1875]

Bizarre way of showing it then.

He was a director of Common Weal and a researcher for Labour MP George Robertson, he was asked to resign after criticism of Sturgeon.

Is it? If someone was critical of the Tories or Donald Trump and wrote an article saying just that would you question their motives? He is an Indy supporter but clearly not a fan of the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon.

I mean even being asked to resign because you were critical of a leader is a bit bizarre isn't it? You can't criticise the leader or if you do you lose your job....

He has some decent points and called it right about how appointing John Swinney was a mistake and would lead to a significant loss of seats.

[Jack]

Is it? If someone was critical of the Tories or Donald Trump and wrote an article saying just that would you question their motives? He is an Indy supporter but clearly not a fan of the SNP and Nicola Sturgeon.

I mean even being asked to resign because you were critical of a leader is a bit bizarre isn't it? You can't criticise the leader or if you do you lose your job....

He has some decent points and called it right about how appointing John Swinney was a mistake and would lead to a significant loss of seats.

I don't think you needed to be an expert to predict the SNP were going to lose seats at the last election.

Without fear of ever being known as a political expert I'll predict, no matter who the leader of the SNP is, they will lose fairly heavily at the forthcoming Scottish election.

[Stairway 2 7]

I don't think you needed to be an expert to predict the SNP were going to lose seats at the last election.

Without fear of ever being known as a political expert I'll predict, no matter who the leader of the SNP is, they will lose fairly heavily at the forthcoming Scottish election.

No one expected the loss that we seen. The bookies were saying evens on above or below 30 seats. I was on here when the exit poll came out and we were saying surely 9 can't be correct

Besides that I think it's dangerous to link criticism of the SNP with criticism of Independence, it's a bit dear leader

[Stairway 2 7]

It was on here previously that Steven Flynn had god 30k from an energy executive, it turns out he then lobbied for him.

The thing is with this and Starmer ect there hasn't been laws broken so it's the gifts that should change. Swinney defending Flynn and Flynn attacking Starmer is hypocritical though

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjr3zezgle4o?at_link_id=A3C248BC-84C4-11EF-B423-B4C6B4D273F6&at_campaign_type=owned&at_format=link&at_link_type=web_link&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_medium=social&at_campaign=Social_Flow

[Ozyhibby]

It was on here previously that Steven Flynn had god 30k from an energy executive, it turns out he then lobbied for him.

The thing is with this and Starmer ect there hasn't been laws broken so it's the gifts that should change. Swinney defending Flynn and Flynn attacking Starmer is hypocritical though

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cjr3zezgle4o?at_link_id=A3C248BC-84C4-11EF-B423-B4C6B4D273F6&at_campaign_type=owned&at_format=link&at_link_type=web_link&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_medium=social&at_campaign=Social_Flow

The law needs to change.


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[Berwickhibby]

Murray Foote resigns

[Andy Bee]

Murray Foote resigns

Wonder who'll be next, Murrell again, Robert Jenrick if he doesn't win the Tory leadership, Sarwars dad, Boris Johnson?

[Kato]

Wonder who'll be next, Murrell again, Robert Jenrick if he doesn't win the Tory leadership, Sarwars dad, Boris Johnson?It'll be the polis guy who built the tent in Sturgeon's gairdin.

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[GlesgaeHibby]

Wonder who'll be next, Murrell again, Robert Jenrick if he doesn't win the Tory leadership, Sarwars dad, Boris Johnson?

Kezia Dugdale's next grift.

[jamie_1875]

The SNP needs a reset and refresh. We need the truth about the embezzlement and fraud allegations and we need the truth about what went on between Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon in respect of the charges against him. I understand his court case against the Scottish Government can continue so we may get some answers.

[Ozyhibby]

The SNP needs a reset and refresh. We need the truth about the embezzlement and fraud allegations and we need the truth about what went on between Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon in respect of the charges against him. I understand his court case against the Scottish Government can continue so we may get some answers.

Don’t we have an independent judiciary for that? What can the SNP do except wait?


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[jamie_1875]

Don’t we have an independent judiciary for that? What can the SNP do except wait?


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I wasn't suggesting it was in the gift of the SNP to do anything but until these issues are settled it will always be hanging over them.

[grunt]

The SNP needs a reset and refresh. We need the truth about the embezzlement and fraud allegations and we need the truth about what went on between Alex Salmond and Nicola Sturgeon in respect of the charges against him. I understand his court case against the Scottish Government can continue so we may get some answers.
Good luck with that. Truth in politics died in 2016.

[Hibs4185]

Don’t we have an independent judiciary for that? What can the SNP do except wait?


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I would love to think we do have an independent judiciary but look at what happened with rangers and the numerous payouts due to inappropriate behaviour.

There is no doubt in my mind that the whole thing is being dragged out as it damages independence.

If it had been anyone else, the procurator fiscal would’ve proceeded by now.

They’ve gathered all the evidence, either there is a case that needs tried before a jury or there isn’t.

[jamie_1875]

I would love to think we do have an independent judiciary but look at what happened with rangers and the numerous payouts due to inappropriate behaviour.

There is no doubt in my mind that the whole thing is being dragged out as it damages independence.

If it had been anyone else, the procurator fiscal would’ve proceeded by now.

They’ve gathered all the evidence, either there is a case that needs tried before a jury or there isn’t.

The head of the Crown Office and Procurator Fiscal Office is Dorothy Bain who sits in John Swinneys Cabinet, and also was in Humza Yousaf and Nicola Sturgeons as well. If it was a conspiracy against Independence don't you think they would kind of say something?

[silverhibee]

I wasn't suggesting it was in the gift of the SNP to do anything but until these issues are settled it will always be hanging over them.

Operation Branchform has been running for over 3 years now, they can’t force the tainted police to hurry up.

[jamie_1875]

Operation Branchform has been running for over 3 years now, they can’t force the tainted police to hurry up.

I agree, the point being for the SNP to reset and refresh it needs resolved. Until that happens it's going to harm them, I know there is nothing they can do though.

[Moulin Yarns]

Another ferry fiasco, who wants to blame the SNP?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crk40rk54

[jamie_1875]

SNP MSP calls Stephen Flynn a P***k for thinking he can be a MP and MSP.

I am against all MSPs "double jobbing" at both Westminster and Holyrood. Would we think we could do two full time jobs? How does it make the current MSPs feel, not great I suspect. He says he won't take a salary but he will take it and then he can decide what to do with it, he will still keep the double pension contributions and expenses etc.

Not just him I think, a few others as well trying to get in Holyrood after just being elected in July. Douglas Ross got rightly criticised for it, pick one job and stick to it and do it the best you can.

[Ozyhibby]

SNP MSP calls Stephen Flynn a P***k for thinking he can be a MP and MSP.

I am against all MSPs "double jobbing" at both Westminster and Holyrood. Would we think we could do two full time jobs? How does it make the current MSPs feel, not great I suspect. He says he won't take a salary but he will take it and then he can decide what to do with it, he will still keep the double pension contributions and expenses etc.

Not just him I think, a few others as well trying to get in Holyrood after just being elected in July. Douglas Ross got rightly criticised for it, pick one job and stick to it and do it the best you can.

I like Flynn but this is ridiculous. I’m all for him standing for Holyrood but he should commit to standing down from Westminster afterwards.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/new-scottish-ferry-handed-over-from-ferguson-shipyard/

Ferry handed over.[emoji106]


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[greenginger]

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/new-scottish-ferry-handed-over-from-ferguson-shipyard/

Ferry handed over.[emoji106]


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One down one to go , oops maybe shouldn’t have said down :greengrin

[Berwickhibby]

https://ukdefencejournal.org.uk/new-scottish-ferry-handed-over-from-ferguson-shipyard/

Ferry handed over.[emoji106]


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How many years late and how much over budget ?

[Ozyhibby]

How many years late and how much over budget ?

Almost as bad as an Ajax tank.


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[Berwickhibby]

Almost as bad as an Ajax tank.


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Classic SNP whataboutary….

[grunt]

Classic SNP whataboutary….
Classic unionist response to entirely valid comparison about other Governments also having projects that take longer and cost more than planned. But yeah, whataboutery.

[Berwickhibby]

Classic unionist response to entirely valid comparison about other Governments also having projects that take longer and cost more than planned. But yeah, whataboutery.

Never asked for a comparison, I asked how late and how much over budget, we know the Tories were just as bad when in Government with cost and procurement

[Hibrandenburg]

Never asked for a comparison, I asked how late and how much over budget, we know the Tories were just as bad when in Government with cost and procurement

You're kind of making his point for him. The Scottish government were nowhere near as bad as the UK government.

[Moulin Yarns]

You're kind of making his point for him. The Scottish government were nowhere near as bad as the UK government.

Discounting that the original contract was signed in 2010 ,while Labour were in power. 🤣

[cabbageandribs1875]

well done both parties Scottish junior doctors accept 11 per cent pay rise | The National (https://www.thenational.scot/news/24740514.scottish-junior-doctors-accept-11-per-cent-pay-rise/?fbclid=IwY2xjawGsL55leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHdVaF2-m7CVKEqU_r8kmp9rE0BTqtkHvv87GPpp1L0kps44NXSM_j7dbB g_aem_v9P3twnPUdhzhsea_JlWMA#comments-anchor) BLiS will be upset :agree:

JUNIOR doctors in Scotland have accepted an 11% pay rise, totalling £64.1 million, the Scottish Government has said.

Resident doctors – the new preferred moniker for junior medics – and dentists in training will see an 8.5% increase backdated to April of this year and a further 2.3% rise effective from October 1, a cumulative rise of 11%.
Those starting out in the medical field, the Scottish Government said, will see an increase of £3418, rising to £7088 by the end of their training.
According to BMA Scotland, 98.2% of respondents backed the offer, with a turnout of 61.4%.

[grunt]

Never asked for a comparison
You don't get to determine how people respond to your posts.

[Ozyhibby]

Still, it’s good news the ferry has been handed over and everyone seems happy with it.[emoji106]


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[Berwickhibby]

You're kind of making his point for him. The Scottish government were nowhere near as bad as the UK government.

The answer is six years late and over £200m over budget…. But that’s a great success

[Moulin Yarns]

The answer is six years late and over £200m over budget…. But that’s a great success

Ajax tank??? 14 years since it was ordered. A tank which was already in service in other countries, but the UK modifications made it inoperable!!

[Berwickhibby]

Ajax tank??? 14 years since it was ordered. A tank which was already in service in other countries, but the UK modifications made it inoperable!!

Yep a real Tory failure…. Like the ferries have been an SNP failure

Ajax is the biggest defence procurement failure for a decade. The Conservatives have spent at least £4bn to date on AJAX and only received 44 vehicles – failing British troops and British taxpayers. Tory Defence procurement has been a catalogue of failures over fourteen years.

[Moulin Yarns]

Yep a real Tory failure…. Like the ferries have been an SNP failure

Ajax is the biggest defence procurement failure for a decade. The Conservatives have spent at least £4bn to date on AJAX and only received 44 vehicles – failing British troops and British taxpayers. Tory Defence procurement has been a catalogue of failures over fourteen years.

Contract signed in March 2010, labour in power!!!!!!!!!!!!


Labour procurement in a nutshell!

[Stairway 2 7]

No sure all the blame should go to either government. If I bought a car of Nissan and it was plagued with problems is that my fault, especially if the company had a history of getting the job done ok

[Ozyhibby]

No sure all the blame should go to either government. If I bought a car of Nissan and it was plagued with problems is that my fault, especially if the company had a history of getting the job done ok

I think there has been failures all round here. As in many areas of govt. Still, at least we having a completed ferry now with more on the way.


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[Ozyhibby]

I like Flynn but this is ridiculous. I’m all for him standing for Holyrood but he should commit to standing down from Westminster afterwards.


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Decision reversed. Well done Flynn. An unnecessary misstep. [emoji106]


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[Berwickhibby]

Still, it’s good news the ferry has been handed over and everyone seems happy with it.[emoji106]


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Apparently there is no working anchor and will need around 6 weeks to sort the issues 👍 plus more cost

[Moulin Yarns]

every pensioner in Scotland will receive a winter heating payment in 2025/26.

those in receipt of qualifying benefits like pension credit would receive the same payment of £200 or £300 – depending on age – while all others will receive £100.

A decent bit of help for next winter.

[CropleyWasGod]

every pensioner in Scotland will receive a winter heating payment in 2025/26.

those in receipt of qualifying benefits like pension credit would receive the same payment of £200 or £300 – depending on age – while all others will receive £100.

A decent bit of help for next winter.

Can't help thinking this is political posturing.

It's not beyond the wit of technology to identify all those who are, for example, higher-rate taxpayers, exclude them from the payment, and redistribute it among lower-income earners. £100 is not that big a deal for a pensioner with an income of £45k, whereas it is for someone only on State Pension.

[grunt]

Can't help thinking this is political posturing.
Preparation for 2026 election.

[Jack]

Can't help thinking this is political posturing.

It's not beyond the wit of technology to identify all those who are, for example, higher-rate taxpayers, exclude them from the payment, and redistribute it among lower-income earners. £100 is not that big a deal for a pensioner with an income of £45k, whereas it is for someone only on State Pension.

I've said much the same for decades. How the DWP and Inland Revenue can't get together and identify all those who might not claiming all sorts of benefits and drop them a letter to suggest claiming is beyond me.

[Stairway 2 7]

Preparation for 2026 election.

Reform **** I'm worried about. How do we get the immigrants we need without letting them get ammo. Can't see anything but a rainbow alliance if a party is to get a majority. Last I saw is mayhem

BallotBoxScot
Poll Analysis: Survation 1st - 15th of November 2024

Holyrood Seats Projection:
SNP ~ 38
Labour ~ 36
Conservative ~ 21
Reform UK ~ 14
Green ~ 10
Lib Dem ~ 10

Independence:
No ~ 52% : Yes ~ 48%

[Bristolhibby]

I've said much the same for decades. How the DWP and Inland Revenue can't get together and identify all those who might not claiming all sorts of benefits and drop them a letter to suggest claiming is beyond me.

Or just pay them

[Ozyhibby]

Can't help thinking this is political posturing.

It's not beyond the wit of technology to identify all those who are, for example, higher-rate taxpayers, exclude them from the payment, and redistribute it among lower-income earners. £100 is not that big a deal for a pensioner with an income of £45k, whereas it is for someone only on State Pension.

You could just give it to houses on lower council tax bands?


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[RyeSloan]

Can't help thinking this is political posturing.

It's not beyond the wit of technology to identify all those who are, for example, higher-rate taxpayers, exclude them from the payment, and redistribute it among lower-income earners. £100 is not that big a deal for a pensioner with an income of £45k, whereas it is for someone only on State Pension.

Too simple.

Why not make the benefit taxable like Child benefit when you earn over a certain amount and force more people to do more tax returns.

That way you complicate the system even more and add in another weird threshold / cliff edge into the system ;-)

[Stairway 2 7]

You could just give it to houses on lower council tax bands?


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A tangent but I was looking at the council tax bands for my street it's wild how random it seems, didn't realise they were set in 91. Was it by house size

[Ozyhibby]

A tangent but I was looking at the council tax bands for my street it's wild how random it seems, didn't realise they were set in 91. Was it by house size

Yip, set in 91 and no longer take into account extensions or any other upgrades some houses have had. It’s a ridiculous situation.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Yip, set in 91 and no longer take into account extensions or any other upgrades some houses have had. It’s a ridiculous situation.


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Cheers

[lapsedhibee]

Yip, set in 91 and no longer take into account extensions or any other upgrades some houses have had. It’s a ridiculous situation.


Do they not re-assess its band at the point of the property's next sale?

[hibee]

Do they not re-assess its band at the point of the property's next sale?

Yes they do, my next door neighbours had extended their house about 15yrs ago which made it bigger than mine but they were in a lower council tax band.

They moved out this year and it’s been updated to the band above its original band now.

[lapsedhibee]

Yes they do, my next door neighbours had extended their house about 15yrs ago which made it bigger than mine but they were in a lower council tax band.

They moved out this year and it’s been updated to the band above its original band now.

:aok:

[Moulin Yarns]

Can't help thinking this is political posturing.

It's not beyond the wit of technology to identify all those who are, for example, higher-rate taxpayers, exclude them from the payment, and redistribute it among lower-income earners. £100 is not that big a deal for a pensioner with an income of £45k, whereas it is for someone only on State Pension.

My wife and I combined income is around that, and last week we used just under £100 electricity. Believe me, even £100 would be welcome.

[Andy Bee]

Scottish Government looking at scrapping the two child benefit cap along with reversing Yousafs £200m cut to the housing budget. I've no doubt they're playing politics but if it helps people who are struggling and creates more homes then you can't really complain. Leaves both Labour in Westminster and the branch office in a bit of a predicament.

[grunt]

I guess all those on here who criticised the SNP for the Council Tax freeze (endlessly, so it seemed) will be delighted to hear they've ended it?

[Stairway 2 7]

I guess all those on here who criticised the SNP for the Council Tax freeze (endlessly, so it seemed) will be delighted to hear they've ended it?

Yes delighted, it was a horrible populist policy that was unfunded and hit the most needy in society.

Council tax needs completely changed. All parties have said it for years but no one seems to want the commitment

[jamie_1875]

Yes delighted, it was a horrible populist policy that was unfunded and hit the most needy in society.

Council tax needs completely changed. All parties have said it for years but no one seems to want the commitment

Just saw this.

Perth and Kinross councillors have just voted to endorse a three-year indicative Council Tax Strategy which would see council tax increase by 10% in 2025/26, 10% in 2026/27 and 6% in 2027/28.

I would imagine Edinburgh will be the same.

It's kind of like chucking money at the NHS, will we see better outcomes from the increased funding? Who knows but I hope so.

[Ozyhibby]

Just saw this.

Perth and Kinross councillors have just voted to endorse a three-year indicative Council Tax Strategy which would see council tax increase by 10% in 2025/26, 10% in 2026/27 and 6% in 2027/28.

I would imagine Edinburgh will be the same.

It's kind of like chucking money at the NHS, will we see better outcomes from the increased funding? Who knows but I hope so.

A couple of extra bands for the very largest properties would be a start if there is no appetite for real reform.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Just saw this.

Perth and Kinross councillors have just voted to endorse a three-year indicative Council Tax Strategy which would see council tax increase by 10% in 2025/26, 10% in 2026/27 and 6% in 2027/28.

I would imagine Edinburgh will be the same.

It's kind of like chucking money at the NHS, will we see better outcomes from the increased funding? Who knows but I hope so.

Guess where I live??

Pkc is an SNP led council, even a good poster on here is a councillor.

I'm happy with a 10% uplift. ( band C)

[hibee]

Just saw this.

Perth and Kinross councillors have just voted to endorse a three-year indicative Council Tax Strategy which would see council tax increase by 10% in 2025/26, 10% in 2026/27 and 6% in 2027/28.

I would imagine Edinburgh will be the same.

It's kind of like chucking money at the NHS, will we see better outcomes from the increased funding? Who knows but I hope so.

It’s getting out of control how much they charge now, using that calculation I’d be paying over £4000 by 2027 and getting nothing much for it.

They need to come up with a fairer system but as others have already said nobody seems interested in changing things.

[Smartie]

It’s getting out of control how much they charge now, using that calculation I’d be paying over £4000 by 2027 and getting nothing much for it.

They need to come up with a fairer system but as others have already said nobody seems interested in changing things.

Probably paying now for all the years it was frozen - which was a nonsense.

Better put things up a wee, regular nudge at a time than nothing than nothing then big chunks.

I’ve been in my flat for 20 years. Whilst I’d probably not be thrilled about the idea of bringing up a family of 4 in a 2 bedroom flat, if you’d asked me if when I moved in if my council tax now would be reasonable from where it was then, I’d probably have said yes.

[Ozyhibby]

Probably paying now for all the years it was frozen - which was a nonsense.

Better put things up a wee, regular nudge at a time than nothing then chunks.

I’ve been in my flat for 20 years. Whilst I’d probably not be thrilled about the idea of bringing up a family of 4 in a 2 bedroom flat, if you’d asked me if when I moved in if my council tax now would be reasonable from where it was then, I’d probably have said yes.

It will still be lower than England.
The rate in Edinburgh is lower than the English average, which considering we are a large city is pretty good.


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[danhibees1875]

Unless it's still coming out in dribs and drabs, I assume no movement on the childcare front and aligning more with England in terms of provision of hours for children under 3? Certainly can't see anything at first look - but not sure if everything is finished or not.

[grunt]

It will still be lower than England.
The rate in Edinburgh is lower than the English average, which considering we are a large city is pretty good.
Comparisons with England are "whataboutery" apparently.

[Ozyhibby]

Comparisons with England are "whataboutery" apparently.

Council tax will not be the problem for the SNP in 2026. Income tax will. Especially the £43k tax band. It’s too low to be classed as a higher rate tax payer and it’s going to cost votes.


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[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/poll-suggests-pro-independence-majority-at-holyrood-with-snp-on-59-seats


Latest Scottish polling. Yes majority, SNP largest party, labour hemorrhaging votes to reform.


And 54% yes for independence.

[Hibs4185]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/poll-suggests-pro-independence-majority-at-holyrood-with-snp-on-59-seats


Latest Scottish polling. Yes majority, SNP largest party, labour hemorrhaging votes to reform.


And 54% yes for independence.

I’m sure operation branch form will have some updates shortly.

Always felt it was being kept back as an ace card

[lapsedhibee]

I’m sure operation branch form will have some updates shortly.

Always felt it was being kept back as an ace card

What's Murrell's position now? Been charged but no appearance in court yet?

Are the polis still figuring out the complex and ingenious criminal conspiracy that resulted in the loot being parked on someone's mum's driveway?

Branchform's not the one about the pens and stamps is it? So hard to remember all the details of stuff that happened so long ago.

[silverhibee]

What's Murrell's position now? Been charged but no appearance in court yet?

Are the polis still figuring out the complex and ingenious criminal conspiracy that resulted in the loot being parked on someone's mum's driveway?

Branchform's not the one about the pens and stamps is it? So hard to remember all the details of stuff that happened so long ago.

Murrell charged but waiting for court appearance, more likely to be-sometime in 2026 with court backlog.

The stamps were fake news made up by someone and peddled as gospel by the media.

Odds on money for Sturgeon to be charged around 2026 and court appearance as well and the media will have a field day, hopefully Scottish folk are starting to wake up to this witch-hunt.

[grunt]

Murrell charged but waiting for court appearance, more likely to be-sometime in 2026 with court backlog.
Not quite. He's been charged but AFAIK the decision rests with COPFS as to whether it will go to court. They haven't ruled yet - let's face it, it's only been 8 months since he was charged. [/S]

[lapsedhibee]

Murrell charged but waiting for court appearance, more likely to be-sometime in 2026 with court backlog.

The stamps were fake news made up by someone and peddled as gospel by the media.

Odds on money for Sturgeon to be charged around 2026 and court appearance as well and the media will have a field day, hopefully Scottish folk are starting to wake up to this witch-hunt.


Not quite. He's been charged but AFAIK the decision rests with COPFS as to whether it will go to court. They haven't ruled yet - let's face it, it's only been 8 months since he was charged. [/S]

:aok:

[Kato]

Murrell charged but waiting for court appearance, more likely to be-sometime in 2026 with court backlog.

The stamps were fake news made up by someone and peddled as gospel by the media.

Odds on money for Sturgeon to be charged around 2026 and court appearance as well and the media will have a field day, hopefully Scottish folk are starting to wake up to this witch-hunt.I wonder if it's the same team that was put on investigating the fake charges against Hibs fans after our glorious display of exuberance in 2016.

£1,900,000 spent by the polis so far in investigating Murrel/Sturgeon.

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[Moulin Yarns]

I wonder if it's the same team that was put on investigating the fake charges against Hibs fans after our glorious display of exuberance in 2016.

£1,900,000 spent by the polis so far in investigating Murrel/Sturgeon.

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Hing oan!! Police Scotland investigate their employer, is that not a bit of them just owing it to themselves kind of thing???

[wookie70]

Council tax will not be the problem for the SNP in 2026. Income tax will. Especially the £43k tax band. It’s too low to be classed as a higher rate tax payer and it’s going to cost votes.


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I'm very much for progressive taxes but a single earner running a house is not a high earner at £43K. They will be struggling to pay their bills more than likely.

The whole strategy appears to be lifting the lowest paid by sacrificing the band above that. Public Sector pay has been pretty decent for those on the lowest bands. Get one or two bands up though and the story is very different. There needs to be a look at Tax with a blank page approach that also takes into consideration assets and wealth. Hard to do when one government controls the paper and the other the pencil. I'd be interested to see how much I am taxed compared to when I started working. I would wager it is more now and add to that massive council tax bills and having to pay a fair chunk of my wage for a pension, which is now worse, which previously was included in my salary.

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/swinney-voices-concern-at-meta-changes-and-will-keep-considering-use-of-x

Scottish govt look like they might be about to move on from Twitter. Well done if they do.


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[lapsedhibee]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/swinney-voices-concern-at-meta-changes-and-will-keep-considering-use-of-x

Scottish govt look like they might be about to move on from Twitter. Well done if they do.

Is there anything to stop Musk buying Bluesky after the 20th? :dunno:

[Ozyhibby]

Is there anything to stop Musk buying Bluesky after the 20th? :dunno:

I guess not but given how simple it is to set up another one it would surely be a daft decision?


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[Berwickhibby]

The Sturgeon’s announce they are ending their marriage

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgpl37lez7o

[Billy Whizz]

The Sturgeon’s announce they are ending their marriage

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgpl37lez7o

The stress these 2 people have been living under, must be a considerable factor

[Ozyhibby]

The stress these 2 people have been living under, must be a considerable factor

I actually thought they had already split?[emoji2369] I must have been confusing rumour and news.
Three and a half years is a very long investigation it should be said but it has done its job in silencing her.


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[Hibrandenburg]

I actually thought they had already split?[emoji2369] I must have been confusing rumour and news.
Three and a half years is a very long investigation it should be said but it has done its job in silencing her.


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Maybe once divorced it will allow her to talk about the whole sorry tale.

[Ozyhibby]

Maybe once divorced it will allow her to talk about the whole sorry tale.

They can’t say anything while the investigation is open.
Given how small the SNP is (only about 20 staff), you have to question the ability of Police Scotland to investigate any real serious more complicated white collar crime?[emoji2369]


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[CropleyWasGod]

I actually thought they had already split?[emoji2369] I must have been confusing rumour and news.
Three and a half years is a very long investigation it should be said but it has done its job in silencing her.


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They've been separated for a while. This is their confirming it.

[Kato]

I actually thought they had already split?[emoji2369] I must have been confusing rumour and news.
Three and a half years is a very long investigation it should be said but it has done its job in silencing her.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI'm sure the legal situation, investigation and charges, or not, will be over soon, like in the next 4 or 5 years.

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[silverhibee]

It’s a pity police Scotland removed they blue tents :thumbsup:

The press seem to have went over the top though with it headline news everywhere but a labour councillor gets hardly any coverage of allegations of being a nonce, Cammy Day is who I’m talking about since there seems to be a load of them being arrested for noncey stuff. :rolleyes:

[CropleyWasGod]

They can’t say anything while the investigation is open.
Given how small the SNP is (only about 20 staff), you have to question the ability of Police Scotland to investigate any real serious more complicated white collar crime?[emoji2369]


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The delay isn't with PS. They are waiting for instructions from the Crown Office.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm sure the legal situation, investigation and charges, or not, will be over soon, like in the next 4 or 5 years.

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Need to make sure it last until the 2026 election.


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[Hibs4185]

The delay isn't with PS. They are waiting for instructions from the Crown Office.

Instructions on taking the case forward to court are due to be announced by the Procurator Fiscal on the first day of campaigning for the 2026 Scottish election followed by a closing of the case the day after the election.

[greenginger]

Instructions on taking the case forward to court are due to be announced by the Procurator Fiscal on the first day of campaigning for the 2026 Scottish election followed by a closing of the case the day after the election.

A few legal road humps didn’t do Trump any damage.

[lapsedhibee]

A few legal road humps didn’t do Trump any damage.

You don't know that. Without those humps Trump might have got as much as 50% of the vote, maybe even more.

[jamie_1875]

It's hard keeping up with all the various conspiracy theories. I suspect none are true and it's just a case of a complex case needed properly investigated. It is taking a long time though but no chance it's going into 2026!

[weecounty hibby]

It's hard keeping up with all the various conspiracy theories. I suspect none are true and it's just a case of a complex case needed properly investigated. It is taking a long time though but no chance it's going into 2026!
It a fraud case that a decent forensic accountant would have had sorted, evidence produced and a decision made about prosecutions in a matter of weeks. Almost 3 years, multiple blue tents, loads of photo opportunities, door stepping by the media and here we are no further forward. Politically motivated bull****. If anyone has done anything wrong they deserve what's coming but it should never have taken this long

[jamie_1875]

It a fraud case that a decent forensic accountant would have had sorted, evidence produced and a decision made about prosecutions in a matter of weeks. Almost 3 years, multiple blue tents, loads of photo opportunities, door stepping by the media and here we are no further forward. Politically motivated bull****. If anyone has done anything wrong they deserve what's coming but it should never have taken this long

The police explained the tents were because they were going through a lot of personal items, so it was to protect their privacy but that doesn't fit the narrative of it being some big show being put on. Again the police explained the investigation moved on from a basic fraud investigation into a more complex case involving embezzlement and forged signatures etc, again a valid reason.

I agree it's taking a very very long time but if it's politically motivated then by who? It was an Independence supporter who made the initial complaint, Police Scotland has been run by the SNP government for years now and the head of the Crown Office sits in John Swinney's government.

I am betting there is a rational explanation for most things.

[weecounty hibby]

Protect their privacy? Easy done. Put stuff in boxes or bags and take them to a police station. No need for tents. Every media outlet in the country followed them about, knocking on their door at points.
Massive Ponzi schemes have been investigated quicker than this.
Sean Clerkin made one of the first Complaints. An Independence supporter, yes I suppose so. But not one I want on my side of the argument

[Kato]

It's hard keeping up with all the various conspiracy theories

How many conspiracy theories have you heard?

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[jamie_1875]

Protect their privacy? Easy done. Put stuff in boxes or bags and take them to a police station. No need for tents. Every media outlet in the country followed them about, knocking on their door at points.
Massive Ponzi schemes have been investigated quicker than this.
Sean Clerkin made one of the first Complaints. An Independence supporter, yes I suppose so. But not one I want on my side of the argument

"Ch Con Livingstone told BBC Radio's Today programme he would have "rightly been accused of a significant dereliction and neglect of duty" if Police Scotland had not carried out its investigations the way it had.

He said: "I know the full circumstances of the case. The tent was there, as were all the other measures, to protect the interests of justice and to protect the individuals involved"

I mean yes he could be lying and being in on "it" whatever it is. I just don't buy the conspiracy theories.

[jamie_1875]

How many conspiracy theories have you heard?

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Lots, but I suspect very few are true and it's generally the simplest and most logical explanation being the truth. Like the tents etc.

[Kato]

Lots, but I suspect very few are true and it's generally the simplest and most logical explanation being the truth. Like the tents etc.Clear as mud that.

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[grunt]

The police explained the tents were because they were going through a lot of personal items, so it was to protect their privacy but that doesn't fit the narrative of it being some big show being put on. Again the police explained the investigation moved on from a basic fraud investigation into a more complex case involving embezzlement and forged signatures etc, again a valid reason.

I agree it's taking a very very long time but if it's politically motivated then by who? It was an Independence supporter who made the initial complaint, Police Scotland has been run by the SNP government for years now and the head of the Crown Office sits in John Swinney's government.

I am betting there is a rational explanation for most things.
I hear that London Bridge is up for sale. I have a friend who can get you in on the bidding. Are you interested?

[Stairway 2 7]

How many conspiracy theories have you heard?

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I've heard police Scotland were delaying the case to hurt the SNP. I've heard it got sent to procurator fiscal ages ago and it's getting delayed by the Lord Advocate and Solicitor General to help cover it up for the SNP cabinet.

Both will be nonsense. The Lord Advocate and Solicitor General being in the cabinet makes me suspect it will be pretty watertight due to the scrutiny it will get from lawyers from both sides

[Kato]

I've heard police Scotland were delaying the case to hurt the SNP. I've heard it got sent to procurator fiscal ages ago and it's getting delayed by the Lord Advocate and Solicitor General to help cover it up for the SNP cabinet.

Both will be nonsense. The Lord Advocate and Solicitor General being in the cabinet makes me suspect it will be pretty watertight due to the scrutiny it will get from lawyers from both sidesThat's two (2) conspiracy theories.

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[jamie_1875]

I hear that London Bridge is up for sale. I have a friend who can get you in on the bidding. Are you interested?

Lol, so what do you think is happening? Who is behind this great plot? I am genuinely interested...

I mean if the ex Chief Inspector of Police Scotland is in on it he must have had some seriously high up handlers yes? Like who?

[Ozyhibby]

I've heard police Scotland were delaying the case to hurt the SNP. I've heard it got sent to procurator fiscal ages ago and it's getting delayed by the Lord Advocate and Solicitor General to help cover it up for the SNP cabinet.

Both will be nonsense. The Lord Advocate and Solicitor General being in the cabinet makes me suspect it will be pretty watertight due to the scrutiny it will get from lawyers from both sides

£2m investigation shows they are certainly taking it serious. Wonder how common it is for Police Scotland to sanction that kind of money for an investigation?
Almost as big as the 2016 pitch invasion investigation.


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[Stairway 2 7]

£2m investigation shows they are certainly taking it serious. Wonder how common it is for Police Scotland to sanction that kind of money for an investigation?
Almost as big as the 2016 pitch invasion investigation.


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Investigating the ruling party is a major thing and shows were a serious nation and not Trump like. I think the crown office delaying this to effect the 2026 election is insane when you look at the Scottish cabinet.

[grunt]

Lol, so what do you think is happening? Who is behind this great plot? I am genuinely interested...

I mean if the ex Chief Inspector of Police Scotland is in on it he must have had some seriously high up handlers yes? Like who?
I have no idea. Perhaps the Scottish Police could investigate? Oh sorry, they're all busy - and have been for TWO YEARS - spending £2000k of Scottish taxpayers money trying to find a massive £600k of the SNP's OWN money which isn't even actually missing.

If pushed to identify those responsible, I'd say this is the work of people within the UK (Better Together) Government. I have no evidence, but it feels like a political hit job. And it's working.

[Kato]

£2m investigation shows they are certainly taking it serious. Wonder how common it is for Police Scotland to sanction that kind of money for an investigation?
Almost as big as the 2016 pitch invasion investigation.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkTo be fair Hibs put some right-wing bigots' noses out of joint. The Scottish establishment are always going to demand their rage is quenched in that kind of scenario.

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[grunt]

Investigating the ruling party is a major thing and shows were a serious nation and not Trump like. :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

That's two (2) conspiracy theories.

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That the blue tent was for show, before Murrell got arrested i heard that no one would ever get arrested as its just to embarrass Sturgeon, that it's being delayed just until the election starts, that it's the UK government doing this.

I genuinely think all of them are nuts, including that the Lord Advocate and Solicitor General are delaying this or trying to squash it just because they are in the cabinet

[Kato]

That the blue tent was for show, before Murrell got arrested i heard that no one would ever get arrested as its just to embarrass Sturgeon, that it's being delayed just until the election starts, that it's the UK government doing this.

I genuinely think all of them are nuts, including that the Lord Advocate and Solicitor General are delaying this or trying to squash it just because they are in the cabinetThat's six (6) plus two (2) = 8.

Mounting up.

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[jamie_1875]

I have no idea. Perhaps the Scottish Police could investigate? Oh sorry, they're all busy - and have been for TWO YEARS - spending £2000k of Scottish taxpayers money trying to find a massive £600k of the SNP's OWN money which isn't even actually missing.

If pushed to identify those responsible, I'd say this is the work of people within the UK (Better Together) Government. I have no evidence, but it feels like a political hit job. And it's working.

I am just not buying that all these senior people are being guided by some mysterious UK Government handler's who are only out to get the SNP. It's getting almost Trumpian. Do they give them their orders in envelopes dropped off at secret places around Edinburgh?

The facts are clear, the investigation was started by an Independence supporter, the police have stated the investigation expanded into other alleged criminal behaviour including embezzlement and the tents were there for the reasons they stated. For all these senior officials and the head of the Crown Office who sits weekly in John Swinney's Cabinet meetings to also be in on "it" I find not believable, you even say yourself you no evidence. I hope we find out soon enough.

[Stairway 2 7]

That's six (6) plus two (2) = 8.

Mounting up.

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Yeah they're is quite a lot, people love a conspiracy. The moon landing is probably the most famous and I could only probably name 4 separate conspiracies involving that

[JimBHibees]

It a fraud case that a decent forensic accountant would have had sorted, evidence produced and a decision made about prosecutions in a matter of weeks. Almost 3 years, multiple blue tents, loads of photo opportunities, door stepping by the media and here we are no further forward. Politically motivated bull****. If anyone has done anything wrong they deserve what's coming but it should never have taken this long

Totally agree and an impartial investigation would have got it done quick so as not to be accused of it having a political impact. Yet it still runs and runs.

[Kato]

Yeah they're is quite a lot, people love a conspiracy. The moon landing is probably the most famous and I could only probably name 4 separate conspiracies involving thatThe moon conspiracy theory is very, very deep-seated - its nuanced, involves thousands of hours of videos, the convoluted involvement of Hollywood, yards of pseudo-science and a battalion of nerds.

It makes the eight (8) conspiracy theories involving the SNP sound like sarcastic asides to the length of time it's taking. Or, if you were partial to a conspiracy theories, elements of one theory.

Wacky.

Still, 600 grand of people's cash might have been mispent and we can't have that kind of thing happening.

The trial will be box-office.

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[grunt]

I am just not buying that all these senior people are being guided by some mysterious UK Government handler's who are only out to get the SNP. It's getting almost Trumpian. Do they give them their orders in envelopes dropped off at secret places around Edinburgh? You've been watching too much TV.


The facts are clear ...Right.


For all these senior officials and the head of the Crown Office who sits weekly in John Swinney's Cabinet meetings to also be in on "it" I find not believableWho says they're in on it?


...you even say yourself you no evidence. Neither do Police Scotland, it would seem.

[grunt]

Still, 600 grand of people's cash might have been mispent and we can't have that kind of thing happening.

£600k of SNP's cash, no?

[jamie_1875]

You've been watching too much TV.

Right.

Who says they're in on it?

Neither do Police Scotland, it would seem.

I mean the facts are the facts, I am not making that up. You seemed to imply that when I mentioned the rational reason for the tent and the reason actually given by the police themselves that I was gullible if I believed it, so I am guessing you think the police are lying with their statement and if lying then you must think they are part of the grand plot.

You are also the one suggesting it was some covert UK Government plan, not me!

[Kato]

£600k of SNP's cash, no?Donated by people. To a political party that champions the cause of of a second referendum on Scottish independence for the sole reason of bringing about a second referendum on Scottish independence. I think that was the status of the cash.

The Sturgeons living a caviar lifestyle is the charge.

600 grand/motor home/bric-a-brac dragged in front of the neighbours.

Its like The Broons if DC Thomson ever decided to bring it up to date.

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[Ozyhibby]

This does not have to be part of some conspiracy run by the UK govt. police Scotland and the PF office has shown with the Rangers case that they are capable of acting independently in ways the Scottish Govt would not approve.


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[grunt]

I mean the facts are the facts, I am not making that up.

I think the facts are anything but clear.

[Hibrandenburg]

A few legal road humps didn’t do Trump any damage.

Aye, but his fanbase weren't voting for him based on integrity anyway.

[greenginger]

Aye, but his fanbase weren't voting for him based on integrity anyway.

Do you think the SNP vote is based on integrity ?

[Kato]

Do you think the SNP vote is based on integrity ?Is it not based on the wish for Scotland to be independent?

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[Smartie]

Do you think the SNP vote is based on integrity ?

I reckon that if any SNP leader started banging on like Trump does then they'd lose practically all their support.

Maybe Alba could soak up the dozen or so nutters who would be into both post-Truth charlatanism and Scottish independence by appointing a Trumpian leader?

[grunt]

Do you think the SNP vote is based on integrity ?I expect that it's a factor. SNP MSPs clearly have more integrity than Scottish Labour and Scottish Tories combined.

[Hibrandenburg]

Do you think the SNP vote is based on integrity ?

Mine was :greengrin

[greenginger]

Is it not based on the wish for Scotland to be independent?

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Exactly , that’s the SNP base sole concern.

Bit like the 60’s when it was said Labour supports would vote for a “ pig in a red muffler “. :greengrin

[silverhibee]

"Ch Con Livingstone told BBC Radio's Today programme he would have "rightly been accused of a significant dereliction and neglect of duty" if Police Scotland had not carried out its investigations the way it had.

He said: "I know the full circumstances of the case. The tent was there, as were all the other measures, to protect the interests of justice and to protect the individuals involved"

I mean yes he could be lying and being in on "it" whatever it is. I just don't buy the conspiracy theories.

He is lying then, apart from murders and serious road accidents I have never seen tents being put up in the garden of folks who have been investigated by police Scotland, or is it only Sturgeon and her husband that get that treatment, why was no tents put in Colin Beattie garden when it was searched.?

[Ozyhibby]

He is lying then, apart from murders and serious road accidents I have never seen tents being put up in the garden of folks who have been investigated by police Scotland, or is it only Sturgeon and her husband that get that treatment, why was no tents put in Colin Beattie garden when it was searched.?

Unless they get a guilty conviction eventually the I can see Police Scotland facing civil action from Murrel and Sturgeon. The whole thing was a complete media circus.


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[grunt]

He is lying then, apart from murders and serious road accidents I have never seen tents being put up in the garden of folks who have been investigated by police Scotland, or is it only Sturgeon and her husband that get that treatment, why was no tents put in Colin Beattie garden when it was searched.?


I mean the facts are the facts, I am not making that up. You seemed to imply that when I mentioned the rational reason for the tent and the reason actually given by the police themselves that I was gullible if I believed it, so I am guessing you think the police are lying with their statement and if lying then you must think they are part of the grand plot.
You (Silver) must think they are all part of the grand plot.

[CropleyWasGod]

He is lying then, apart from murders and serious road accidents I have never seen tents being put up in the garden of folks who have been investigated by police Scotland, or is it only Sturgeon and her husband that get that treatment, why was no tents put in Colin Beattie garden when it was searched.?

There was no suggestion of French diplomats buried in his garden?


:cb

[jamie_1875]

He is lying then, apart from murders and serious road accidents I have never seen tents being put up in the garden of folks who have been investigated by police Scotland, or is it only Sturgeon and her husband that get that treatment, why was no tents put in Colin Beattie garden when it was searched.?

I am sure if they were sorting through all their personal possssions in the garden with the media filming it then as he has stated they would be accused of not doing enough to protect their privacy and people would be saying they were doing it deliberately. I guess they could have boxed everything up and taken it away, but he says it was their also in the interests of "justice" so maybe the search has to be done there and then. I still think the simplest explanation is likely to be the truth.

If he is lying then on whose orders and direction seeing as he was the most senior police officer in Scotland?

[Ozyhibby]

I am sure if they were sorting through all their personal possssions in the garden with the media filming it then as he has stated they would be accused of not doing enough to protect their privacy and people would be saying they were doing it deliberately. I guess they could have boxed everything up and taken it away, but he says it was their also in the interests of "justice" so maybe the search has to be done there and then. I still think the simplest explanation is likely to be the truth.

If he is lying then on whose orders and direction seeing as he was the most senior police officer in Scotland?

You wouldn’t just do the search inside the house? I know they don’t exactly have a mansion but it looks big enough to set up inside?
It’s a supposed white collar crime so what exactly could they be looking for that required the tents? Surely all you are looking for is paperwork?


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[jamie_1875]

You wouldn’t just do the search inside the house? I know they don’t exactly have a mansion but it looks big enough to set up inside?
It’s a supposed white collar crime so what exactly could they be looking for that required the tents? Surely all you are looking for is paperwork?


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It was reported that Murrell was buying personal items using company funds, again this was reported so the simple explanation is they were looking for these personal items in amongst all their other personal items.

[Stairway 2 7]

You wouldn’t just do the search inside the house? I know they don’t exactly have a mansion but it looks big enough to set up inside?
It’s a supposed white collar crime so what exactly could they be looking for that required the tents? Surely all you are looking for is paperwork?


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Most people's houses get absolutely wrecked in a house search, maybe they thought she deserved better. Notice police Scotland this week getting frustrated with the crown office. The two top dogs in the crown office are in the SNP cabinet, which won't help the SNP cover up conspiracy nutters

David Kennedy, general secretary of the Scottish Police Federation, said: "The police investigation, as far as we are concerned, has been completed. It's frustrating for the police officers involved that they're continually getting the blame for dragging their heels.

They have done all they can and it's now down to the Crown Office. We need the Crown Office to make a decision one way or the other.

For the public to move on, they need to know what's going to happen. It would be a good thing for the people of Scotland to know where things stand and where it's going to lead, rather than have all this speculation."

Another senior source suggested the length of time Branchform is taking "reflects badly on us". They said the force has "done everything we can possibly do," and that a "charging decision has to be made".

They added: "It is frustrating because the assumptions are that the police have not done their job, or are dragging their feet, or this is political and so on and so forth. We simply don't know what's going on at the Crown Office."

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/operation-branchform-latest-police-fed-34474695

[Ozyhibby]

Most people's houses get absolutely wrecked in a house search, maybe they thought she deserved better. Notice police Scotland this week getting frustrated with the crown office. The two top dogs in the crown office are in the SNP cabinet, which won't help the SNP cover up conspiracy nutters

David Kennedy, general secretary of the Scottish Police Federation, said: "The police investigation, as far as we are concerned, has been completed. It's frustrating for the police officers involved that they're continually getting the blame for dragging their heels.

They have done all they can and it's now down to the Crown Office. We need the Crown Office to make a decision one way or the other.

For the public to move on, they need to know what's going to happen. It would be a good thing for the people of Scotland to know where things stand and where it's going to lead, rather than have all this speculation."

Another senior source suggested the length of time Branchform is taking "reflects badly on us". They said the force has "done everything we can possibly do," and that a "charging decision has to be made".

They added: "It is frustrating because the assumptions are that the police have not done their job, or are dragging their feet, or this is political and so on and so forth. We simply don't know what's going on at the Crown Office."

https://www.scottishdailyexpress.co.uk/news/politics/operation-branchform-latest-police-fed-34474695

Boo hoo. £2m spent on the investigation and they are whining that the crown office are struggling to find a charge?


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[CropleyWasGod]

It was reported that Murrell was buying personal items using company funds, again this was reported so the simple explanation is they were looking for these personal items in amongst all their other personal items.

Reported by whom?

[silverhibee]

Donated by people. To a political party that champions the cause of of a second referendum on Scottish independence for the sole reason of bringing about a second referendum on Scottish independence. I think that was the status of the cash.

The Sturgeons living a caviar lifestyle is the charge.

600 grand/motor home/bric-a-brac dragged in front of the neighbours.

Its like The Broons if DC Thomson ever decided to bring it up to date.

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Don’t forget the Tetley tea bags that were in a see through evidence bag.

[jamie_1875]

Reported by whom?

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/snp-funds-investigation-sees-amazon-29972677

[CropleyWasGod]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/snp-funds-investigation-sees-amazon-29972677

Thanks.

I don't see anything there that says Murrell was buying personal items using party funds. It might be the conclusion the writer wants to imply, but that's up to the reader to interpret, no?

As has been said, if there were specific items that the Police were looking for, a house search would have been sufficient.

Personally, I'd always start in the loft. I've seen enough cop dramas to know that's where it's at.