SNP are lying b******s as well !

[James310]

Leader of Glasgow City Council not happy with levelling up funds allocation / process:

That's a surprise.

While the leader of Shetland council is delighted, sounds like it will really change people's life's for the better. What's not to like.

"It's no exaggeration to say that this funding from the UK government has saved Fair Isle as an inhabited island," she says.

"There would have been no other way for us to sustainably fund such a project.

"This is a truly great day for Fair Isle and for Shetland and we are grateful for the honest, open and productive dialogue we have had with the Scotland Office and the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities throughout the process."

[Jack]

perhaps I’ve got the wrong end of the stick, I’m sure Jack can clarify, I thought he was criticising WM rather than holyrood/Scotland in what he said…

Yeah a Westminster fail.

Also it wasn't a Scottish Office failure. The people/staff responsible for the Holyrood project were parachuted in to Scottish Office open plan office space but didn't really mix with the locals, doing similar but smaller projects.

It was a time when there were smoking rooms in office buildings and I shared one with folk working on the other projects. We weren't kept short of gossip!

[ronaldo7]

Leader of Glasgow City Council not happy with levelling up funds allocation / process:

Voters in conservative seats got nearly £20 more per head than voters in similarly deprived non-tory constituencies in the latest round of hunger games UK.

[Santa Cruz]

Yeah a Westminster fail.

Also it wasn't a Scottish Office failure. The people/staff responsible for the Holyrood project were parachuted in to Scottish Office open plan office space but didn't really mix with the locals, doing similar but smaller projects.

It was a time when there were smoking rooms in office buildings and I shared one with folk working on the other projects. We weren't kept short of gossip!

I was in those smoking rooms too. Not all staff were interdepartmental transfers, a fair number were existing staff who had been redeployed. I learnt early in my working life you should never listen to gossips, what they don't know they make up. :rolleyes:

[Zambernardi1875]

That's a surprise.

While the leader of Shetland council is delighted, sounds like it will really change people's life's for the better. What's not to like.

"It's no exaggeration to say that this funding from the UK government has saved Fair Isle as an inhabited island," she says.

"There would have been no other way for us to sustainably fund such a project.

"This is a truly great day for Fair Isle and for Shetland and we are grateful for the honest, open and productive dialogue we have had with the Scotland Office and the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities throughout the process."

"family left homeless after the government repossess home are delighted when given a tent"

[grunt]

While the leader of Shetland council is delighted, sounds like it will really change people's life's for the better. What's not to like.
One of the benefits of this funding has been the opportunity to set council against council, Scot against Scot. "What's not to like" indeed.

[James310]

"family left homeless after the government repossess home are delighted when given a tent"

I am missing something, who had their home repossessed by the Government and what's that got to do with the story?

[James310]

One of the benefits of this funding has been the opportunity to set council against council, Scot against Scot. "What's not to like" indeed.

Funnily enough most people won't see it like that.

[grunt]

I am missing something, who had their home repossessed by the Government and what's that got to do with the story?Indeed.


Funnily enough most people won't see it like that.And this is why we've got a Tory Government in the UK.

[Skol]

I'm sure they are.

Are you happy with the settled will of the Scottish people being undermined?

I am glad you too dislike the snp ignoring the settled will of the Scottish people in 2014 :thumbsup:

[Kato]

Voters in conservative seats got nearly £20 more per head than voters in similarly deprived non-tory constituencies in the latest round of hunger games UK.Millions wasted in daft, expensive applications as well. Still some consultancy firms will have made healthy profits with nothing show for it, which the Tory Party loves.

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[Hibrandenburg]

I am glad you too dislike the snp ignoring the settled will of the Scottish people in 2014 :thumbsup:

****ing wey hey, did we unilaterally leave the union and I mist it?

[Berwickhibby]

****ing wey hey, did we unilaterally leave the union and I mist it?

Do you even get a vote in Scotland?

[He's here!]

Let’s wait and see if they ever get it.


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They may certainly be waiting a long time if they let the SG anywhere near the tendering process.

[Berwickhibby]

They may certainly be waiting a long time if they let the SG anywhere near the tendering process.

:greengrin Made me chuckle

[James310]

They may certainly be waiting a long time if they let the SG anywhere near the tendering process.

One of the funniest things I've ever read on here. Been chuckling to myself about that one. 😉

[grunt]

Supporters of this UK Government levelling up allocation will no doubt be pleased that Edinburgh's King's Theatre was unsuccessful in its bid for funding and will likely close for good.

[grunt]

:greengrin Made me chuckle


One of the funniest things I've ever read on here. Been chuckling to myself about that one. ��
This must be the reason there are so few Tory comedians. Maybe have to call you the chuckle brothers from now on.

[weecounty hibby]

They may certainly be waiting a long time if they let the SG anywhere near the tendering process.
I've asked this if you before and you keep blanking it. Can you give us all some perspective on the aircraft carriers and Ajax armoured vehicles as you are such an expert on procurement and completion of public projects. I won't hold my breath

[James310]

Supporters of this UK Government levelling up allocation will no doubt be pleased that Edinburgh's King's Theatre was unsuccessful in its bid for funding and will likely close for good.

Why would anyone be pleased at that news?

[James310]

I've asked this if you before and you keep blanking it. Can you give us all some perspective on the aircraft carriers and Ajax armoured vehicles as you are such an expert on procurement and completion of public projects. I won't hold my breath

My perspective is it's really poor, generally governments are really bad at this kind of thing and we all deserve better. Do you expect people to say anything other than that? Like what a great job the government is doing wasting millions of pounds?

[marinello59]

I've asked this if you before and you keep blanking it. Can you give us all some perspective on the aircraft carriers and Ajax armoured vehicles as you are such an expert on procurement and completion of public projects. I won't hold my breath

I think this response demonstrates why this is a humour free zone these days. It wasn’t the funniest joke ever but it was mildly amusing. That’s how points used to be made on here, with a bit of humour , often self deprecating.
I’d love to see us return to that rather than the Twitter style aggression we are getting now. C’mon guys, we can all do better. :greengrin

The is not a dig at you weecounty, honest. I include myself in those who need to lighten up a bit more. Geez, the Tories give us plenty of material. :greengrin

[weecounty hibby]

I think this response demonstrates why this is a humour free zone these days. It wasn’t the funniest joke ever but it was mildly amusing. That’s how points used to be made on here, with a bit of humour , often self deprecating.
I’d love to see us return to that rather than the Twitter style aggression we are getting now. C’mon guys, we can all do better. :greengrin

The is not a dig at you weecounty, honest. I include myself in those who need to lighten up a bit more. Geez, the Tories give us plenty of material. :greengrin
I get it and often the written word just doesn't come across as its intended. But that particular poster only ever posts snp/sg bad links and doesn't even respond when asked about other areas. Still a struggle to laugh at anything that is being made out to be an improvement when the cold hard facts are that overall Scotland is worse off due to the European v levelling up grants. Tens of millions of pounds down and losing control. Hard to laugh really.
In answer to James, no I dont expect anyone to say it's good but a but of perspective is required when discussing how good or bad projects have been. It can't all be SG is pish but let's ignore the billions wasted by Westminster. And for me it's a new thing. As an independence supporter I was chuffed to buts when we got our own parliament. As an SNP supporters I campaigned for the party but when Labour were in power I was mostly very supportive of the sg. Now it appears that all the opposition parties have us to try to denigrate everything the SG does. Scotland isn't all bad and not everything we do is pish, but looking in on here and tye MSM you'd be forgiven for thinking it was. With the obvious exception of the SNP support. As a mid 50s politically active person I have never seen so many people so excited when things go wrong.

Rail strikes? SNP need to sort it! SNP sorted it, let's now ignore that. Health? Ditto. Prison Officers, same. It must be difficult being so negative about everything all the time.

[weecounty hibby]

I think this response demonstrates why this is a humour free zone these days. It wasn’t the funniest joke ever but it was mildly amusing. That’s how points used to be made on here, with a bit of humour , often self deprecating.
I’d love to see us return to that rather than the Twitter style aggression we are getting now. C’mon guys, we can all do better. :greengrin

The is not a dig at you weecounty, honest. I include myself in those who need to lighten up a bit more. Geez, the Tories give us plenty of material. :greengrin
As another reply as well. I can be a right miserable ******* as well tho😀

[marinello59]

As another reply as well. I can be a right miserable ******* as well tho😀

:greengrin

[James310]

I get it and often the written word just doesn't come across as its intended. But that particular poster only ever posts snp/sg bad links and doesn't even respond when asked about other areas. Still a struggle to laugh at anything that is being made out to be an improvement when the cold hard facts are that overall Scotland is worse off due to the European v levelling up grants. Tens of millions of pounds down and losing control. Hard to laugh really.
In answer to James, no I dont expect anyone to say it's good but a but of perspective is required when discussing how good or bad projects have been. It can't all be SG is pish but let's ignore the billions wasted by Westminster. And for me it's a new thing. As an independence supporter I was chuffed to buts when we got our own parliament. As an SNP supporters I campaigned for the party but when Labour were in power I was mostly very supportive of the sg. Now it appears that all the opposition parties have us to try to denigrate everything the SG does. Scotland isn't all bad and not everything we do is pish, but looking in on here and tye MSM you'd be forgiven for thinking it was. With the obvious exception of the SNP support. As a mid 50s politically active person I have never seen so many people so excited when things go wrong.

Rail strikes? SNP need to sort it! SNP sorted it, let's now ignore that. Health? Ditto. Prison Officers, same. It must be difficult being so negative about everything all the time.

When the Scottish Parliament was launched it was in the main a place of hope and potential, in the early years it did some really great things like the smoking ban, building the new Forth Road Bridge etc and there was talented politicians in the Parliament.

Now all I see is constant fighting and petty constitutional point scoring from all parties, and the talent...well there is very little of it in any party. Most of the questions are planted or pre scripted and they repeat the same things over and over. It's stale and boring now.

Of course we have different views but I want both governments to work together, that's kind of what devolution was about for me, we get control of things more locally like health and education but we also benefit from being part of something larger as well and the benefits that brings.

We do however live in Scotland, pay our taxes in Scotland, and the vast majority of our services are managed by a Scottish Government so people will criticise the Scottish Government, why wouldn't they? That's healthy yes? I think part of that comes from the picture that some paint that Scotland is somehow different and better than everyone, Scottish exceptionalism is it called? So when something goes wrong people will point and go look see your just as bad as everyone else. If you (not you personally) are going to bang on about how we in Scotland are better and different then when things go wrong it will be amplified, see the Ferries.

We can criticise both governments though when we are being let down by them both.

All in my opinion of course...

[Ozyhibby]

When the Scottish Parliament was launched it was in the main a place of hope and potential, in the early years it did some really great things like the smoking ban, building the new Forth Road Bridge etc and there was talented politicians in the Parliament.

Now all I see is constant fighting and petty constitutional point scoring from all parties, and the talent...well there is very little of it in any party. Most of the questions are planted or pre scripted and they repeat the same things over and over. It's stale and boring now.

Of course we have different views but I want both governments to work together, that's kind of what devolution was about for me, we get control of things more locally like health and education but we also benefit from being part of something larger as well and the benefits that brings.

We do however live in Scotland, pay our taxes in Scotland, and the vast majority of our services are managed by a Scottish Government so people will criticise the Scottish Government, why wouldn't they? That's healthy yes? I think part of that comes from the picture that some paint that Scotland is somehow different and better than everyone, Scottish exceptionalism is it called? So when something goes wrong people will point and go look see your just as bad as everyone else. If you (not you personally) are going to bang on about how we in Scotland are better and different then when things go wrong it will be amplified, see the Ferries.

We can criticise both governments though when we are being let down by them both.

All in my opinion of course...

Vast majority of taxes are paid to London. We get some of that sent back.


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[James310]

Vast majority of taxes are paid to London. We get some of that sent back.


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We get more back than we send, or is the below wrong? Tell me how it's wrong if you believe that to be the case.

https://theferret.scot/claim-scotland-pays-out-more-than-gets-back-false/


But you make my point for me, it's the same old stale arguments over and over. Next it will be tell us the benefits of the Union, someone will list some and they will be ignored and then someone will say something else that has been gone over thousands of times before.

[Bostonhibby]

This must be the reason there are so few Tory comedians. Maybe have to call you the chuckle brothers from now on.Could be even funnier, in an ironically expensive to the taxpayer sort of way, if UK government just decided to do away with a properly controlled tendering process again and just had one of their Lord Deighton type payolas for the favoured few?

Surely Baroness Mone could give wee Gove another quick ring and promise to rustle up a couple of overpriced battleships and a couple of aircraft carriers?

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[grunt]

Why would anyone be pleased at that news?Your earlier posts appeared to be very happy that Westminster was allocating the levelling up funds in the way they were. So presumably you're happy that the King's didn't get any.

[grunt]

But you make my point for me, it's the same old stale arguments over and over. Next it will be tell us the benefits of the Union, someone will list some and they will be ignored and then someone will say something else that has been gone over thousands of times before.
Is this your way of telling us that you're not going to post in future?

[James310]

Your earlier posts appeared to be very happy that Westminster was allocating the levelling up funds in the way they were. So presumably you're happy that the King's didn't get any.

No, I am happy for the ones that did and sad for the ones that didn't. Why would anyone be happy, I don't get it?

[James310]

Is this your way of telling us that you're not going to post in future?

Only if you do the same?

[grunt]

Only if you do the same?Really? If I stop posting you will too? (Wonder if I can get sponsorship for this ...)

[James310]

Really? If I stop posting you will too? (Wonder if I can get sponsorship for this ...)

You can do as you wish, it's a shame you don't like opposite views though, don't you think it's enough of an echo chamber already?

[Hibrandenburg]

Do you even get a vote in Scotland?

I do now. Even without one I still would have partied.

[Berwickhibby]

I do now. Even without one I still would have partied.

Ahh Ex Pats could not vote at the last referendum…this could be a game changer if they get to vote if there is another

[Hibrandenburg]

Ahh Ex Pats could not vote at the last referendum…this could be a game changer if they get to vote if there is another

It's complicated.

[Berwickhibby]

It's complicated.

Not really either you’re a Scottish resident and you can or you are a German resident and you cannot. Anything else is electoral fraud. I was in Malta during the last referendum and was unable to vote.

[grunt]

Only if you do the same?This post says that you will stop posting if I do. Will you commit to that?

[Hibrandenburg]

Not really either you’re a Scottish resident and you can or you are a German resident and you cannot. Anything else is electoral fraud. I was in Malta during the last referendum and was unable to vote.

It's complicated.

[marinello59]

This post says that you will stop posting if I do. Will you commit to that?

I’m picturing you both heading off to the hibs.net afterlife together. And spending all eternity arguing. :greengrin

[James310]

This post says that you will stop posting if I do. Will you commit to that?

You do what you want, it was a bit tounge in cheek. We are grown ups aren't we?

But if it keeps you really happy if you don't post on the Tory thread I won't post on this thread. I think you would be more lost than me though. Or we can be grown up and keep posting what we want?

[Bostonhibby]

I’m picturing you both heading off to the hibs.net afterlife together. And spending all eternity arguing. :greengrinWhilst I would never want to see either poster from both sides of the debate leave and diminish the range of opinion and the place turn into an echo chamber, your lighthearted comment means I just can't get the Yellowbrick Road out my head now.[emoji16]

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[grunt]

I’m picturing you both heading off to the hibs.net afterlife together. And spending all eternity arguing. :greengrin

It is a far, far better thing that I do, than I have ever done; it is a far, far better rest that I go to than I have ever known.

[grunt]

You do what you want, it was a bit tounge in cheek. We are grown ups aren't we?

But if it keeps you really happy if you don't post on the Tory thread I won't post on this thread. I think you would be more lost than me though. Or we can be grown up and keep posting what we want?

I just wanted to be clear that you're going back on your commitment. Thought you would.

[James310]

I just wanted to be clear that you're going back on your commitment. Thought you would.

Chill out a bit, we are both adults and can surely post what we want within the site guidelines? You keep saying you have me on ignore but if you keep replying to me it would be rude to ignore you. Just don't reply, or put me on ignore.

[WeeRussell]

(Wonder if I can get sponsorship for this ...)

Want my ticket for Sunday? 😁

(For anyone that doesn’t know and therefore won’t get the reference, we’re Hibernian FC fans on here)

[Jack]

Not really either you’re a Scottish resident and you can or you are a German resident and you cannot. Anything else is electoral fraud. I was in Malta during the last referendum and was unable to vote.

Given your track record of the law as it applies in Scotland I'd suggest you're on shakey ground.

[James310]

Want my ticket for Sunday? 😁

(For anyone that doesn’t know and therefore won’t get the reference, we’re Hibernian FC fans on here)

I would sell you mine and you can have a wee gossip with Grunt? 😂

[Berwickhibby]

Given your track record of the law as it applies in Scotland I'd suggest you're on shakey ground.

Really �� … yawn….like to add some substance to your allegation

[He's here!]

I've asked this if you before and you keep blanking it. Can you give us all some perspective on the aircraft carriers and Ajax armoured vehicles as you are such an expert on procurement and completion of public projects. I won't hold my breath

I'm not blanking it. I just don't see the need to balance up any comment which paints the SG in a bad light with an acknowledgement of UK government screw-ups - especially on a thread with a title like this one. It goes without saying there are all manner of projects which governments of all political persuasions have made a complete mess of.

My most recent dig was also meant to be a bit light-hearted but I appreciate that can be hard to get away with on here.

[Kato]

I'm not blanking it. I just don't see the need to balance up any comment which paints the SG in a bad light with an acknowledgement of UK government screw-ups - especially on a thread with a title like this one. It goes without saying there are all manner of projects which governments of all political persuasions have made a complete mess of.

My most recent dig was also meant to be a bit light-hearted but I appreciate that can be hard to get away with on here.It isnt right to balance criticism of the Scottish Govt with criticism of the Govt which holds the purse strings?

Ok.

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[He's here!]

It isnt right to balance criticism of the Scottish Govt with criticism of the Govt which holds the purse strings?

Ok.

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Not what I wrote.

[James310]

Isn't it a shame that nowadays people's first reaction is to disbelieve the politician's explanation?

Normally because they are lying. This guy never resigned for personal reasons like what he said, he resigned as he was trying to play detective and made a mess of it. Most politicians are the same, from all parties.

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/scottish-news/snp-chief-whip-forced-quit-29017601?utm_campaign=sharebar&utm_medium=social&utm_source=twitter.com

[grunt]

Most politicians are the same, from all parties.
That's just your whataboutery to justify for yourself your hatred of the SNP. They are not all the same.
This Conservative Party is a trash pit. There's no comparison.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Most politicians are the same, from all parties.

Voting for the worst of them, then convincing yourself that they're all just as bad. It's a common tory trope.

[Stairway 2 7]

Isn't it a shame that nowadays people's first reaction is to disbelieve the politician's explanation?

I will continue to doubt politicians

[Stairway 2 7]

Voting for the worst of them, then convincing yourself that they're all just as bad. It's a common tory trope.

They are all a bunch of neoliberal bafoons with the tories the worst by a country mile. Labour and snp centre verging on centre right, this tory government a big way to right, Corbyns Labour was far to the left of all three

[Ozyhibby]

They are all a bunch of neoliberal bafoons with the tories the worst by a country mile. Labour and snp centre verging on centre right, this tory government a big way to right, Corbyns Labour was far to the left of all three

The Labour Party is well to the right of the SNP.


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[Stairway 2 7]

The Labour Party is well to the right of the SNP.


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Nah. They are left and right of each other on different subjects but a fag paper between them.

[Ozyhibby]

Nah. They are left and right of each other on different subjects but a fag paper between them.

I’m struggling to see where Labour are left of the SNP?


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[Ozyhibby]

I imagine Sturgeon would have liked to blame the BBC for putting words in her mouth, but she's gone with 'bad phrasing'. Better than the awful US-style 'mis-spoke' claims which have gained credence among politicians in recent years I guess:

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1616855984332226560?s=20&t=9pYosXEXJURwnNn3qol-pw

Do you think she wants to lower age to 16 or is it just bad phrasing? It can only be one or the other?


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[Stairway 2 7]

I’m struggling to see where Labour are left of the SNP?


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Labour in Wales listened to the Scottish common weal and are going to set up energy company, the same as starmers proposal. This is a vehicle to getting the profits from renewables.

Snp sold of the future profits in renewables to help make BP and shell more billions, against common weal pleading. It's the oil all over again, companies getting profits from our national resources.

You'll come back and defend that as its your beloved but its all groundhog day stuff. Labour and snp are two bald men fighting over a comb, both neoliberal, centre ,big business, but pretend to be left.

I want independence so there is a faint chance of a left wing alternative

[He's here!]

Do you think she wants to lower age to 16 or is it just bad phrasing? It can only be one or the other?


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I posted this on the wrong thread by mistake so moved it to the BBC one. But I think the answer is she's struggling to come up with a coherent justification for her gender reform bill and got herself in a muddle.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

I posted this on the wrong thread by mistake so moved it to the BBC one. But I think the answer is she's struggling to come up with a coherent justification for her gender reform bill and got herself in a muddle.

Hardly a muddle. Her wording could have been better, but it was still blatantly obvious what she meant within the full context of what she said. Just as it was blatantly obvious what the BBC were trying to do here with their selective quoting in order to alter that context.

[Bostonhibby]

That's just your whataboutery to justify for yourself your hatred of the SNP. They are not all the same.
This Conservative Party is a trash pit. There's no comparison.I tend to agree, previous conservative governments had many policies and behaviours I disagreed with but there was never such a blatant disregard for openly poor behaviour and subsequently fighting to cover it up as there has recently been, sacking and resignation standards have plummeted.

Nasty Party conservatism is about a privileged elite all at the same trough and participating in a far broader spectrum of lying, sleight of hand and outright thievery.

It's why they have no time to effectively run the country and the economy and we are trapped in a knee jerk political cycle.

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[grunt]

It's why they have no time to effectively run the country and the economy and we are trapped in a knee jerk political cycle.
It's not just about a lack of time to properly run the country. They are intellectually poor, have no policies other than self-profiting, and they do not listen to good advice. The Truss Government was a prime example of their wrong-headedness but it's been the case for this Conservative Party for many years.

[Moulin Yarns]

Labour in Wales listened to the Scottish common weal and are going to set up energy company, the same as starmers proposal. This is a vehicle to getting the profits from renewables.

Snp sold of the future profits in renewables to help make BP and shell more billions, against common weal pleading. It's the oil all over again, companies getting profits from our national resources.

You'll come back and defend that as its your beloved but its all groundhog day stuff. Labour and snp are two bald men fighting over a comb, both neoliberal, centre ,big business, but pretend to be left.

I want independence so there is a faint chance of a left wing alternative

How many times are you going to come out with this guff? They leased the rights to the seabed and will reap the benefits of energy generation in the future!

[Stairway 2 7]

Good luck to all those striking today ✊️

https://mobile.twitter.com/lindasomervill/status/1618175671368577027

[He's here!]

Good luck to all those striking today ✊️

https://mobile.twitter.com/lindasomervill/status/1618175671368577027

Yep, halfway point of the 16-day strike action across Scottish schools. 22 more to follow in a few more weeks unless the SG do something more than point out that teachers in England are also planning to strike.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Yep, halfway point of the 16-day strike action across Scottish schools. 22 more to follow in a few more weeks unless the SG do something more than point out that teachers in England are also planning to strike.

Which makes sense, considering the funding structure for all devolved sectors in Scotland are directly linked to funding availability for those equivalent sectors in England. Unless the UK Government coughs up more for teachers, nurses and other public sector workers in England, there will be no improved offers made in Scotland, it's as simple as that.

[Stairway 2 7]

Which makes sense, considering the funding structure for all devolved sectors in Scotland are directly linked to funding availability for those equivalent sectors in England. Unless the UK Government coughs up more for teachers, nurses and other public sector workers in England, there will be no improved offers made in Scotland, it's as simple as that.

Nonsense. It's groundhog day but.. we have a budget it's £2000 per head bigger per year per person than England's also. They can decide how that budget is spent, they have chosen to let public sector wages be decimated. The budget has rose roughly in line with inflation in the last 10 years but teachers wages have dropped 28% in real terms in that time.

They afforded to pay 28% more 10 years ago and have chosen to use the money elsewhere since. That may be correct but to say we had no choice is nonsence. When will snp cultist wake up and say blaming England for everything doesn't wash

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Nonsense. It's groundhog day but.. we have a budget it's £2000 per head bigger per year per person than England's also.

Ah yes, that old chestnut. It makes a great headline doesn't it? Without ever bothering to go into the actual details behind why this may actually be the case, rather than just assuming that it's the generosity of the charitable tories at Westminster.


They afforded to pay 28% more 10 years ago and have chosen to use the money elsewhere since.

Chosen? Or ultimately pressured into doing so, following over 10 years of a purely ideologically motivated austerity agenda from Westminster?

[Stairway 2 7]

Ah yes, that old chestnut. It makes a great headline doesn't it? Without ever bothering to go into the actual details behind why this may actually be the case, rather than just assuming that it's the generosity of the charitable tories at Westminster.



Chosen? Or ultimately pressured into doing so, following over 10 years of a purely ideologically motivated austerity agenda from Westminster?
Chosen the budget has went up with inflation but wages dropped. That chestnut is a simple fact, its because we're doing worse. I believe we're better independent even if we won't be financially in the years proceeding, but that's a separate story

[He's here!]

Which makes sense, considering the funding structure for all devolved sectors in Scotland are directly linked to funding availability for those equivalent sectors in England. Unless the UK Government coughs up more for teachers, nurses and other public sector workers in England, there will be no improved offers made in Scotland, it's as simple as that.

Ah that old easy Westminster get-out chestnut. Except that's not how it works. Stairway 27's 'chestnut' is the correct one. These lengthy teaching strikes, the first in Scotland for 40 years, are the SG's to own. I work in the sector and nobody within it is blaming Westminster for this mess.

Sturgeon needs to get rid of Somerville ASAP if she's serious about trying to resolve this.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Ah that old easy Westminster get-out chestnut. Except that's not how it works. Stairway 27's 'chestnut' is the correct one. These lengthy teaching strikes, the first in Scotland for 40 years, are the SG's to own. I work in the sector and nobody within it is blaming Westminster for this mess.

Sturgeon needs to get rid of Somerville ASAP if she's serious about trying to resolve this.

I couldn't care less who people blame, for me it's about who is actually to blame. I'm sure the brexiteer fishermen blame the SNP for the dire impacts of brexit on the fishing sector for example. Easier to do that than to self reflect and face up to the reality of being on the wrong side of the fence.

[Moulin Yarns]

Ah that old easy Westminster get-out chestnut. Except that's not how it works. Stairway 27's 'chestnut' is the correct one. These lengthy teaching strikes, the first in Scotland for 40 years, are the SG's to own. I work in the sector and nobody within it is blaming Westminster for this mess.

Sturgeon needs to get rid of Somerville ASAP if she's serious about trying to resolve this.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64406674

The same Somerville?

[Bristolhibby]

How many times are you going to come out with this guff? They leased the rights to the seabed and will reap the benefits of energy generation in the future!

If public money isn’t going into Captur Al investment then private equity has to. And they want a return. Leasing gives the investment, private venture makes a Buck and we (the people) get new infrastructure.

J

[Bristolhibby]

I couldn't care less who people blame, for me it's about who is actually to blame. I'm sure the brexiteer fishermen blame the SNP for the dire impacts of brexit on the fishing sector for example. Easier to do that than to self reflect and face up to the reality of being on the wrong side of the fence.

Every man and his horse knew the fishermen were going to get shafted. Except for the fishermen. Bought into, and perpetuated the lie of Brexit. Fishermen were the flag carriers of Brexit. The more sensible and self reflective surely must have come to the conclusion that they were sold a pup. That will make them embarrassed at best, lost their livelihood at worst, especially the shellfish fishermen. Zero market, zero job.

J

[Stairway 2 7]

How many times are you going to come out with this guff? They leased the rights to the seabed and will reap the benefits of energy generation in the future!

Didn't actually see this guff until it was quoted. They leased it at a pittance BP and shell will make billions from it, its the exact same as what happened to our oil, we get a pay off for the most evil companies getting billions upon billions

You champion the common weal until they completely contract you on the subject, I'd trust their analysis over both of ours. The proposition they put to the snp was so good Welsh Labour said can we please use it

30-50 million to go to Scotland each year from 3.5 to 5.5 billion profits for the energy companies

https://commonweal.scot/policies/scotwind-privatising-scotlands-future-again/

ScotWind: Privatising Scotland’s Future Again

[James310]

How many times are you going to come out with this guff? They leased the rights to the seabed and will reap the benefits of energy generation in the future!

I see Stairway27 already posted it but as a fan of Commonweal I take it you totally disagree with their analysis on this, why are they wrong?

[Santa Cruz]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64406674

The same Somerville?

Where does it mention the industrial action having been resolved? Which I think was the point OP was making when saying the Ed Sec needs replaced.

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64406674

The same Somerville?

This isn't related to resolving the strikes with a pay deal. It's actually Somerville rowing back on Sturgeon's claim last week that she respected the autonomy of councils to balance their budgets. It appears the SG will now impose council cuts where they see fit, not where the council wants. It's basically to try and stem the number of teachers leaving the profession. Instead of building steadily towards Sturgeon's 2026 target, teacher numbers are actually declining. Not a good look for an FM who claims she wants to be judged on her education record.

Teacher strikes, meanwhile roll on uninterrupted.

[James310]

This isn't related to resolving the strikes with a pay deal. It's actually Somerville rowing back on Sturgeon's claim last week that she respected the autonomy of councils to balance their budgets. It appears the SG will now impose council cuts where they see fit, not where the council wants. It's basically to try and stem the number of teachers leaving the profession. Instead of building steadily towards Sturgeon's 2026 target, teacher numbers are actually declining. Not a good look for an FM who claims she wants to be judged on her education record.

Teacher strikes, meanwhile roll on uninterrupted.

Good point, last week it was all about respecting the council's autonomy and how they make their own decisions. This week it's let's just ignore that because they are making decisions that don't look good so we will take over and make decisions for them.

[Glory Lurker]

I find HH's and J310's relish for industrial action confusing given their Tory sympathies, but I am sure they have free market reasons for attacking the employer. Fair dos.

What's the solution then? Where is the money coming from?

[James310]

I find HH's and J310's relish for industrial action confusing given their Tory sympathies, but I am sure they have free market reasons for attacking the employer. Fair dos.

What's the solution then? Where is the money coming from?

Where is my relish for Industrial action? My 2 kids were out of school all day on Wednesday and in previous weeks as well, I would much rather they were in school learning, especially my eldest who has her NAT5s this year.

[Glory Lurker]

Where is my relish for Industrial action? My 2 kids were out of school all day on Wednesday and in previous weeks as well, I would much rather they were in school learning, especially my eldest who has her NAT5s this year.

You've used it plenty to have a pop at the SG. I can understand your frustration though if you've got kids affected. Not relish on your part, I apologise.

What is the solution?

[James310]

You've used it plenty to have a pop at the SG. I can understand your frustration though if you've got kids affected. Not relish on your part, I apologise.

What is the solution?

I was commenting on the fact last week the narrative was about how the SG respect the autonomy of the councils and it's up to them how they allocate their budget, but this week the SG are stepping in to tell Glasgow Council how to spend their budget. Surely you see that's a different position?

A teacher on debate night said they haven't got round the table for weeks, that would be a start to finding the solution.

[marinello59]

What is the solution?

Pay them.
I have no sympathy for the employer no matter who they are though. :greengrin

[Glory Lurker]

I think the problem is that the money just isn't there or it can only be sourced from slashing elsewhere. I support the teachers, I just worry that this isn't one they can win which is bad for them and bad for the future of education.

[James310]

I think the problem is that the money just isn't there or it can only be sourced from slashing elsewhere. I support the teachers, I just worry that this isn't one they can win which is bad for them and bad for the future of education.

Agree but this was November 2022.

"Scotland strikes: 'We don't have more money' to pay NHS staff, declares Humza Yousaf"

A few weeks later,

"Nurses accept increased pay offer in Scotland and call off strikes"

You can't blame the teachers for holding out for more can you.

[marinello59]

Agree but this was November 2022.

"Scotland strikes: 'We don't have more money' to pay NHS staff, declares Humza Yousaf"

A few weeks later,

"Nurses accept increased pay offer in Scotland and call off strikes"

You can't blame the teachers for holding out for more can you.

:agree:
The money can always be found.

[Hibrandenburg]

I was commenting on the fact last week the narrative was about how the SG respect the autonomy of the councils and it's up to them how they allocate their budget, but this week the SG are stepping in to tell Glasgow Council how to spend their budget. Surely you see that's a different position?

A teacher on debate night said they haven't got round the table for weeks, that would be a start to finding the solution.

Like a kind of section 35 order. Disgraceful.

[James310]

Like a kind of section 35 order. Disgraceful.

So are you agreeing the SNP are doing the same thing you accused the Tories of? Ok.

Personally I think it's quite different and under totally different circumstances.

[Stairway 2 7]

I think the problem is that the money just isn't there or it can only be sourced from slashing elsewhere. I support the teachers, I just worry that this isn't one they can win which is bad for them and bad for the future of education.

That's from the political class's book of quotes. 10 years ago the snp had a budget passed. That budget has risen in line with inflation. In the same time teachers wages have dropped 28% adjusted for inflation. They have chosen to constantly cut public sector workers wages until breaking point

The question should be is the policy to pay public sector workers the lowest that they will accept without striking. No left wing snp supporter can with a clear conscience be against the workers and for the neolib snp here

[Glory Lurker]

That's from the political class's book of quotes. 10 years ago the snp had a budget passed. That budget has risen in line with inflation. In the same time teachers wages have dropped 28% adjusted for inflation. They have chosen to constantly cut public sector workers wages until breaking point

The question should be is the policy to pay public sector workers the lowest that they will accept without striking. No left wing snp supporter can with a clear conscience be against the workers and for the neolib snp here

I said earlier that I support the teachers.

[Stairway 2 7]

I said earlier that I support the teachers.

That's just a quote. Saying the money isn't there and this is one they can't win and its bad for education, isn't supporting them

Supporting them is saying the pathetic UK and Scottish governments have deliberately kept on decreasing there wages for a decade. The budget hasn't changed, just what the government's think is acceptable to pay public sector workers has changed. They must strike its their last hope and resort. No one cares more about kids education than them, this won't be easy but something has to give.

[WeeRussell]

That's just a quote. Saying the money isn't there and this is one they can't win and its bad for education, isn't supporting them

Supporting them is saying the pathetic UK and Scottish governments have deliberately kept on decreasing there wages for a decade. The budget hasn't changed, just what the government's think is acceptable to pay public sector workers has changed. They must strike its their last hope and resort. No one cares more about kids education than them, this won't be easy but something has to give.

I mean, if GL says he supports them - it’s probably not up to you to tell him what he has to say for that to be true.

[Stairway 2 7]

I mean, if GL says he supports them - it’s probably not up to you to tell him what he has to say for that to be true.

I'm not judging as a person but on what we put on here which is what we all do. People constantly saying the money isn't there is definitely the opposite of support imo

[Just Alf]

I think the problem is that the money just isn't there or it can only be sourced from slashing elsewhere. I support the teachers, I just worry that this isn't one they can win which is bad for them and bad for the future of education.The IFS guy that was involved in yesterday's announcement on Scotland's fiscal position within the current uk framework said on good morning Scotland that to increase NHS and net zero funding by 2% everything else would need to reduce by 14%.

Guess net zero is going to get kicked into the long grass.

[Glory Lurker]

I'm not judging as a person but on what we put on here which is what we all do. People constantly saying the money isn't there is definitely the opposite of support imo

I said them losing would be bad for education.

Ever since Thatcher us on the left have predicted that following a low tax policy would cause disaster. I think it's arrived. If we meant it then (or later if you're just a pup!) it shouldn't be a total surprise that it's actually happening.

[Glory Lurker]

I mean, if GL says he supports them - it’s probably not up to you to tell him what he has to say for that to be true.

Cheers, WR.

[J-C]

Agree but this was November 2022.

"Scotland strikes: 'We don't have more money' to pay NHS staff, declares Humza Yousaf"

A few weeks later,

"Nurses accept increased pay offer in Scotland and call off strikes"

You can't blame the teachers for holding out for more can you.

Did they not raise income tax by 1p for higher earnings to pay for it, imagine if we did that for all industries, you'd tax people out of the country.

[Stairway 2 7]

Did they not raise income tax by 1p for higher earnings to pay for it, imagine if we did that for all industries, you'd tax people out of the country.

No they didn't raise income tax to just pay this so the second part is mute. I'm pleased they raised the tax though I'd do it further. That is separate from the fact that they paid the public sector far higher 10 years ago with the same budget restraints

[Mibbes Aye]

The IFS guy that was involved in yesterday's announcement on Scotland's fiscal position within the current uk framework said on good morning Scotland that to increase NHS and net zero funding by 2% everything else would need to reduce by 14%.

Guess net zero is going to get kicked into the long grass.

I don't doubt the IFS guy's arithmetic, but talk about increases of 2% or 20% or whatever, obscure the real systemic issues IMO.

One of the main issues is a lack of recognition that what the NHS does very well is keep people alive for longer, whilst in ill-health. Average life expectancy rises for people living with long-term conditions or morbidities (things varying from COPD to diabetes to liver disease etc etc). This means ever-increasing needs for medical intervenions and treatments, which cost more and more and happen more and more. In terms of hospital beds, that means people needing longer whilst medically unfit, to then need longer when medically fit because there isn't the necessary care in place at home.

That isn't an argument for eugenics or anything like that, I hasten to add. Positive solutions really rest on early intervention and prevention. And by early that means looking at all the issues that lead to medical interventions years or decades later.

[J-C]

No they didn't raise income tax to just pay this so the second part is mute. I'm pleased they raised the tax though I'd do it further. That is separate from the fact that they paid the public sector far higher 10 years ago with the same budget restraints


Scotland to raise income tax by 1p for those on over £43,666 to raise money for NHS – as it happened | Politics | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/dec/15/jake-berry-government-nurses-strike-compromise-conservatives-uk-politics-latest)

[James310]

Scotland to raise income tax by 1p for those on over £43,666 to raise money for NHS – as it happened | Politics | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/dec/15/jake-berry-government-nurses-strike-compromise-conservatives-uk-politics-latest)

https://fraserofallander.org/a-first-glance-scottish-budget-2023-2024/

"The tax changes taken together are forecast to raise an additional £129 million in 2023/24."

How far does £129M go in funding the NHS in Scotland?

[Stairway 2 7]

Scotland to raise income tax by 1p for those on over £43,666 to raise money for NHS – as it happened | Politics | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2022/dec/15/jake-berry-government-nurses-strike-compromise-conservatives-uk-politics-latest)

You said they raised it to pay for the rises, the government would never say that as one its playing people off and two its wrong as it pays for a number of things. You say if we raised other wages it would raise tax further and drive people out the country. That was Douglas Ross's and the Mail's patter when we raised the tax.

The fact is the budget has went up by inflation but public sector workers wages have been decimated. Its redistribution of the money they used to get. I'm sure the money has went on worthwhile causes but the PS workers are being hammered too much. Its affecting us being able to get people to fill roles especially nursing

[grunt]

How far does £129M go in funding the NHS in Scotland?Might as well not raise taxes at all.

[marinello59]

https://fraserofallander.org/a-first-glance-scottish-budget-2023-2024/

"The tax changes taken together are forecast to raise an additional £129 million in 2023/24."

How far does £129M go in funding the NHS in Scotland?

Further than not having £129 million would.

[James310]

Further than not having £129 million would.

Indeed but it's not true to suggest a tax rise that raises £129M paid for the increased pay offer for NHS staff. Nowhere near it.

From the SG website.

"In a final offer made to trade unions, the new deal is worth an additional £515 million in 2022-23 and now includes a package of progressive measures to promote staff and patient safety, support long-term workforce sustainability and to recognise the breadth of skills and experience of NHS Scotland staff"

[J-C]

https://fraserofallander.org/a-first-glance-scottish-budget-2023-2024/

"The tax changes taken together are forecast to raise an additional £129 million in 2023/24."

How far does £129M go in funding the NHS in Scotland?


You said they raised it to pay for the rises, the government would never say that as one its playing people off and two its wrong as it pays for a number of things. You say if we raised other wages it would raise tax further and drive people out the country. That was Douglas Ross's and the Mail's patter when we raised the tax.

The fact is the budget has went up by inflation but public sector workers wages have been decimated. Its redistribution of the money they used to get. I'm sure the money has went on worthwhile causes but the PS workers are being hammered too much. Its affecting us being able to get people to fill roles especially nursing


Why then is this headline in this Guardian piece saying 1p for those over £43,666 to raise money for NHS ?

[J-C]

Indeed but it's not true to suggest a tax rise that raises £129M paid for the increased pay offer for NHS staff. Nowhere near it.

From the SG website.

"In a final offer made to trade unions, the new deal is worth an additional £515 million in 2022-23 and now includes a package of progressive measures to promote staff and patient safety, support long-term workforce sustainability and to recognise the breadth of skills and experience of NHS Scotland staff"


I don't think anyone is suggesting the 1p tax rise will pay for the NHS in total, it's to top up the kitty so as to allow them to offer more, that is plainly obvious in what I posted.

[He's here!]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-fish-rots-from-the-head-in-sturgeons-scotland/

Thoughts?

[James310]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-fish-rots-from-the-head-in-sturgeons-scotland/

Thoughts?

Not sure what you are expecting but let me get in their first with a couple,

It's in the extreme right wing Spectator so obviously rubbish

Stephen Daisley has been writing the same article for years now

He is just out to get Nicola Sturgeon

Why does he hate Scotland?

Covered all bases I think?

[Smartie]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-fish-rots-from-the-head-in-sturgeons-scotland/

Thoughts?

My thoughts?

Porn for unionists.

Utter drivel from start to finish, but it's written with a particular audience in mind and I am not part of that audience.

I don't believe that Sturgeon or the SNP have dealt with the recent issues well and I don't think that they have a remotely perfect record over the years but their mistakes haven't been enough to put me off supporting them in the bigger sense.

The valid point he makes is that there is a total dearth of credible options either at Holyrood or Westminster who might positively convince me to vote for someone or something else.

For example - Sturgeon and the SNP tying themselves in knots in the minefield that is transgender issues doesn't anger me nearly as much as Zahawi's tax affairs or the fact that we have to tolerate the UK PM making speeches in front of printed "stop the boats" messages, both of which are vile and I'd like any country I consider my own to be as distant from as possible.

[Kato]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-fish-rots-from-the-head-in-sturgeons-scotland/

Thoughts?Hard-nosed journo using a wedge issue as a platform for a diatribe.

Old as the hills.

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[Moulin Yarns]

Wonder what I missed by having an early night? 🤔

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/william-curtis-threatened-to-assassinate-first-minister-nicola-sturgeon-and-abducted-sheriff?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1675430097-1


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[Kato]

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/william-curtis-threatened-to-assassinate-first-minister-nicola-sturgeon-and-abducted-sheriff?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1675430097-1


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkRadicalised by hyperbolising the blame for everything on Sturgeon, probably has a horrendous looking Facebook page.

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[WeeRussell]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-fish-rots-from-the-head-in-sturgeons-scotland/

Thoughts?

Says more about anyone sharing it than any of the 'topics' the actual drivel itself is meant to cover.

[Mr Grieves]

https://news.stv.tv/west-central/william-curtis-threatened-to-assassinate-first-minister-nicola-sturgeon-and-abducted-sheriff?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1675430097-1


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's awful, high profile women seem to be subject to this ***** far too often. It'd be good for people of all political persuasions to call this bollox out

[Crunchie]

That's awful, high profile women seem to be subject to this ***** far too often. It'd be good for people of all political persuasions to call this bollox out
This Conservative voter is calling this out Mr Grieves :aok:

[degenerated]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-fish-rots-from-the-head-in-sturgeons-scotland/

Thoughts?Stephen Daisley, The Spectator. Immediate thoughts are that I'd rather stick my knob in a cheese grater than read it.

[ronaldo7]

That's awful, high profile women seem to be subject to this ***** far too often. It'd be good for people of all political persuasions to call this bollox out

You have to wonder how he got to that stage in imagining what he did.

Let's hope, Nicola has plenty of security around to fend off the nutters

[James310]

How many times are you going to come out with this guff? They leased the rights to the seabed and will reap the benefits of energy generation in the future!

Doesn't look like guff now.

https://archive.ph/2023.02.05-081709/https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/23300089.scotwind-scotland-faces-loss-60bn-new-offshore-wind-farms/%23comments-anchor


"SCOTLAND is expected to lose £60bn including billions from the public purse through the surrender of nearly two thirds of the potential supply chain bonanza and the 'underselling' of leasing rights for the offshore wind revolution, the Herald on Scotland can reveal"

From your friends at Commonweal.

[Lendo]

Radicalised by hyperbolising the blame for everything on Sturgeon, probably has a horrendous looking Facebook page.

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One guess as to which team he supports.

[Kato]

One guess as to which team he supports.Hearts

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[CropleyWasGod]

Not sure what thread to post this on.

Nicola Sturgeon had published all of her Tax Returns since 2014.

[ronaldo7]

Not sure what thread to post this on.

Nicola Sturgeon had published all of her Tax Returns since 2014.

Do we have a date for other Leaders to do so?

Is it true that she only receives her Salary as FM and nothing else. Is taxed at the full salary, but only receives cash at 2008/9 levels, with the remainder going into the public purse?

[CropleyWasGod]

Do we have a date for other Leaders to do so?

Is it true that she only receives her Salary as FM and nothing else. Is taxed at the full salary, but only receives cash at 2008/9 levels, with the remainder going into the public purse?

This is how I understand it:-

Her full salary is paid by SG.

The NIC on the full salary, Employees and Employers, goes to Westminster.

Similarly, the IT until a few years ago. Now it goes to.the SG.

Of her net salary, a percentage is diverted back to the SG.

[Mr Grieves]

Is it true that she only receives her Salary as FM and nothing else. Is taxed at the full salary, but only receives cash at 2008/9 levels, with the remainder going into the public purse?

Yep, £1.3 million.

This really shouldn't be a big deal and all politicians should be completely open about their financial affairs. Hopefully others are asked and follow suit.

[ronaldo7]

This is how I understand it:-

Her full salary is paid by SG.

The NIC on the full salary, Employees and Employers, goes to Westminster.

Similarly, the IT until a few years ago. Now it goes to.the SG.

Of her net salary, a percentage is diverted back to the SG.

Thanks G.

Do you know if the other Leaders will publish theirs? Anas Sarwar would be interesting. :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

My god how is she expected to manage on £1.3m annually plus expenses ….

Think you have misread.

[Mr Grieves]

My god how is she expected to manage on £1.3m annually plus expenses ….

£1.3 million has went back into the public purse from Scottish ministers having a wage freeze....

[ronaldo7]

My god how is she expected to manage on £1.3m annually plus expenses ….

Oh dear.

[James310]

She was pretty evasive when talking about her husband lending the SNP £100K. Did the "I can't recall" line used in the past. Surely as husband and wife they talked about lending a huge sum of money and the optics of lending it to the party she leads and the party her husband is the Chief Exec of? I don't believe it when she says she doesn't know.

[Kato]

I don't believe it when she says she doesn't know.

Wow there's a shock. Is this because she's the most evil in all the land?

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[James310]

Wow there's a shock. Is this because she's the most evil in all the land?

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If it was any other politician I would say the same. If your husband is the CEO of the party that you lead you don't think they had talks about lending over £100K, even you must have your doubts. Actually probably not, she can do no wrong. Saint Nicola.

[CropleyWasGod]

I did wonder how the story of NS' Tax Returns would be spun. I tried to envisage the sort of criticism that might be levelled at her, and I struggled to come up with anything.

I should have known that the negativity would come from completely unrelated topics and (wilful?) misunderstanding. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

If it was any other politician I would say the same. If your husband is the CEO of the party that you lead you don't think they had talks about lending over £100K, even you must have your doubts. Actually probably not, she can do no wrong. Saint Nicola.

What is the allegation?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[James310]

I did wonder how the story of NS' Tax Returns would be spun. I tried to envisage the sort of criticism that might be levelled at her, and I struggled to come up with anything.

I should have known that the negativity would come from completely unrelated topics. :greengrin

Nothing at all to do with her tax returns though is it? I think the other leader should do the same.

Just an observation that I reckon most husband and wife couples would tend to discuss in detail before making a commitment to lend over £100K. Maybe they don't in their house but it seems odd.

[James310]

What is the allegation?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's she can't recall having discussions with her husband the Chief Executive of the party she leads lending the party £100K to help solve cash flow problems.

[CropleyWasGod]

Nothing at all to do with her tax returns though is it? I think the other leader should do the same.

Just an observation that I reckon most husband and wife couples would tend to discuss in detail before making a commitment to lend over £100K. Maybe they don't in their house but it seems odd.

What makes you think I was meaning you?

It's actually very common on Twitter just now. Ignore the news of the day and talk about the news of another day.

Q E D :cb

[Ozyhibby]

That's she can't recall having discussions with her husband the Chief Executive of the party she leads lending the party £100K to help solve cash flow problems.

So there is no allegation then. [emoji23]


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[James310]

So there is no allegation then. [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes that she can't recall it. 😂

[Ozyhibby]

Yes that she can't recall it. [emoji23]

And the consequences of that are?


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[James310]

And the consequences of that are?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well look at the title of the thread.

[Ozyhibby]

Well look at the title of the thread.

But it’s not a lie though is it? It’s just you fantasising about Nicola Sturgeon again. And that’s not healthy.


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[James310]

But it’s not a lie though is it? It’s just you fantasising about Nicola Sturgeon again. And that’s not healthy.


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I would be really interested to know how you know it's not a lie? Please explain.....You are making stuff up now. 😂

Maybe you are close to her and she told you?

[ronaldo7]

She was pretty evasive when talking about her husband lending the SNP £100K. Did the "I can't recall" line used in the past. Surely as husband and wife they talked about lending a huge sum of money and the optics of lending it to the party she leads and the party her husband is the Chief Exec of? I don't believe it when she says she doesn't know.

If she was evasive she'd have jumped into a fridge.

You seem to be the only one calling her saint Nicola.

[James310]

If she was evasive she'd have jumped into a fridge.

You seem to be the only one calling her saint Nicola.

A fridge? Ok.....

[Ozyhibby]

I would be really interested to know how you know it's not a lie? Please explain.....You are making stuff up now. [emoji23]

Maybe you are close to her and she told you?

You are the one making accusations again. Where is your evidence?


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[James310]

You are the one making accusations again. Where is your evidence?


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I just wanted to know how you know it's not a lie? How would you know that information?

You said "But it’s not a lie though is it?"

How can you know this information?

[Ozyhibby]

I just wanted to know how you know it's not a lie? How would you know that information?

You said "But it’s not a lie though is it?"

How can you know this information?

Troll


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[James310]

Troll


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Lol, how? Just because you made a statement that doesn't make sense don't blame me.

I made one comment and you jumped on it demanding answer after answer.

If anything you are trolling me! I will give back as good as I get.

[Since90+2]

Lol, how? Just because you made a statement that doesn't make sense don't blame me.

I made one comment and you jumped on it demanding answer after answer.

If anything you are trolling me!

You're the one claiming she is telling lies, the burdon is therefore on you to prove it.

And you can't.

You're obsessed, must be eating you up everytime the SNP win an election.

[James310]

You're the one claiming she is telling lies, the burdon is therefore on you to prove it.

And you can't.

You're obsessed, must be eating you up everytime the SNP win an election.

I said I don't believe it, an opinion. Jeezo the Nicola fan club are really out in force at the moment. Maybe we should just ban any negative comments about her. 😂

[ronaldo7]

A fridge? Ok.....

Your ex leader jumped into one to avoid scrutiny, whereas the FM stood at a podium and answered all questions.

I get your disdain for the Leader in Scotland, currently living rent free in your head, but at least she has the kahoonas to answer all questions posed of her, even if you don't like them.

Let's see it the other "Leaders" will post their tax returns for the last few years. #waiting

[Since90+2]

I said I don't believe it, an opinion. Jeezo the Nicola fan club are really out in force at the moment. Maybe we should just ban any negative comments about her. 😂

Yet you want others to prove she is telling the truth.

You're all over the place. Utterly obsessed, you seem to spend half your life on this thread.

[James310]

Yet you want others to prove she is telling the truth.

You're all over the place. Utterly obsessed, you seem to spend half your life on this thread.

I make one comment and seem to live rent free in many peoples heads and generate lots of replies, like your good self. Then when I don't reply I get asked why are you ignoring the question. 😂

[bringbackbenny]

I make one comment and seem to live rent free in many peoples heads and generate lots of replies, like your good self. Then when I don't reply I get asked why are you ignoring the question. 😂

Would like to make my first contribution to this fine thread.

You're at it.

[Since90+2]

I make one comment and seem to live rent free in many peoples heads and generate lots of replies, like your good self. Then when I don't reply I get asked why are you ignoring the question. 😂

I've literally no idea what you're going on about now.

Take care.

[CropleyWasGod]

Nicola published her Tax Returns today.

[He's here!]

If she was evasive she'd have jumped into a fridge.

You seem to be the only one calling her saint Nicola.

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23193551.sturgeon-flees-questions-husbands-murky-100-000-snp-loan/

Last time she got asked about it she evaded questioning by jumping into a lift.

[Kato]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23193551.sturgeon-flees-questions-husbands-murky-100-000-snp-loan/

Last time she got asked about it she evaded questioning by jumping into a lift.Or she was going into a lift anyway and answered the questions put to her as the journalists followed her into the lift.

Did you read the article?

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[HNA12]

Can we stick to debating the issues please. Discussing other posters rather than addressing their points isn’t on. If you don’t want to read a particular posters points then please just put them on ignore.

[WeeRussell]

I would be really interested to know how you know it's not a lie? Please explain.....You are making stuff up now. 😂

Maybe you are close to her and she told you?

Hold on. You can post anything the FM says on here, tell us it’s a lie, and then insist on everyone else proving it’s not?

That can’t possibly work.

[ronaldo7]

https://www.heraldscotland.com/politics/23193551.sturgeon-flees-questions-husbands-murky-100-000-snp-loan/

Last time she got asked about it she evaded questioning by jumping into a lift.

You've just got that all wrong. No surprise.

[greenginger]

Nicola published her Tax Returns today.


Did she declare anything for her for her grace and favour residence in Charlotte Square ? :greengrin

[James310]

Hold on. You can post anything the FM says on here, tell us it’s a lie, and then insist on everyone else proving it’s not?

That can’t possibly work.

Hold on, you have it wrong. I expressed an opinion based on the fact I don't believe a couple as high profile as the FM and the leader of the SNP and her husband who is the CEO of the SNP lent the party a huge sum of money and they never discussed it or she can't remember discussing it. You think you would recall lending over £100K to anyone or anything, never mind the party you lead. (I am still allowed to have opinions I hope) A poster said it's definitely not a lie (that she never knew anything about it) and I asked how he could know that. That's about it. Really not looking to drag this on and I am wanting to give the poor Admins a rest for a night.

[Hibrandenburg]

Hold on. You can post anything the FM says on here, tell us it’s a lie, and then insist on everyone else proving it’s not?

That can’t possibly work.

Works for religion. You can't prove there's no god so it must be true.

[CropleyWasGod]

Did she declare anything for her for her grace and favour residence in Charlotte Square ? :greengrin

As it is (AIUI) provided for security reasons, it's not taxable.

[greenginger]

As it is (AIUI) provided for security reasons, it's not taxable.

But she seldom uses it , prefers her wee pad through the West.

Security not required there I take it. :greengrin

[HNA11]

The level of 'debate' on this board in recent weeks is frankly embarrassing. We have tried to be patient, we have posted multiple warnings publicly (which are wilfully ignored within seconds), we have given warnings and infractions privately, we have closed threads and have reiterated the rules multiple times and still this utter nonsense continues.

Take this as a final warning. If this level of childish behaviour continues then posters will be removed from the board and the Holy Ground itself will be closing indefinitely.

We are stretched thin as an admin team currently. We all have a life of outside of here and yet we are dealing with multiple reported posts a day from the same handful of posters about posts by another handful of posters.

Put each other on ignore, turn the other cheek and grow up.

[CropleyWasGod]

But she seldom uses it , prefers her wee pad through the West.

Security not required there I take it. :greengrin

If she seldom uses BH, whether it's provided for security or not, there will be very little (or no) tax due on it.

Security on her personal residence will be the responsibility of the SG, and not taxable on her.

[Ozyhibby]

If she seldom uses BH, whether it's provided for security or not, there will be very little (or no) tax due on it.

Security on her personal residence will be the responsibility of the SG, and not taxable on her.

I would say that the security needs of NS are considerable and growing.[emoji22]


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[J-C]

If she seldom uses BH, whether it's provided for security or not, there will be very little (or no) tax due on it.

Security on her personal residence will be the responsibility of the SG, and not taxable on her.


Is Bute House not owned by the SG, therefore nothing to do with her tax, it's an official residence of the FM.

[CropleyWasGod]

Is Bute House not owned by the SG, therefore nothing to do with her tax, it's an official residence of the FM.

If it's not provided for security reasons, then it is taxable. The amount will depend on the extent to which she uses it.

If it is provided for security purposes, then it's not taxable.

[Moulin Yarns]

Works for religion. You can't prove there's no god so it must be true.

Russell's teapot is an analogy, formulated by the philosopher Bertrand Russell, to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making empirically unfalsifiable claims, rather than shifting the burden of disproof to others. Russell specifically applied his analogy in the context of religion.

[WeeRussell]

Russell's teapot is an analogy, formulated by the philosopher Bertrand Russell, to illustrate that the philosophic burden of proof lies upon a person making empirically unfalsifiable claims, rather than shifting the burden of disproof to others. Russell specifically applied his analogy in the context of religion.

It got a mention on Richard Osmond’s house of games episode tonight too, albeit a repeat!

[Moulin Yarns]

It got a mention on Richard Osmond’s house of games episode tonight too, albeit a repeat!

It was on Only Connect tonight as well.

[WeeRussell]

It was on Only Connect tonight as well.

Scratch that.. it was only connect I seen it on 😂👍

Too many quiz programmes on a Monday when still recovering from the weekend…

[Glory Lurker]

Pre-devolution, Bute House was the official residence of the secretary of state for Scotland. Since 1885?

Pure scunner for the anti-Nat, anti-devolutionists.

[Glory Lurker]

Today's front page of the English Telegraph's front story is Salmond laying into Sturgeon.

Scenes, Jeff! When was the last time the Telegraph bigged him up????

What is the prize? Really, what is the bloody prize?

[Hiber-nation]

Today's front page of the English Telegraph's front story is Salmond laying into Sturgeon.

Scenes, Jeff! When was the last time the Telegraph bigged him up????

What is the prize? Really, what is the bloody prize?

Yep, a headline to influence all these hunners of Torygraph readers who were thinking about moving to Scotland and voting for the SNP.

[Moulin Yarns]

Scratch that.. it was only connect I seen it on 😂👍

Too many quiz programmes on a Monday when still recovering from the weekend…

How can you mistake Richard osman for Victoria Coren Mitchell 😂

[greenginger]

Piece on the BBC with some details of Nicola’s tax return.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64537218

She pays a large chunk of her income ( £ 58,331 ) into her pension pot held by the Scottish Parliamentary Pension Scheme. Guess her expenses and hubby income cover most of her living costs.

What is puzzling is the article goes on to say her tax charge of £7,991 payable because because her pension contribution exceeded the £40,000 allowable was met by parliamentary Pension Scheme , not Nicola herself.

Is there an explanation for this or is this the biased BBC at it again.

[Stairway 2 7]

Doesn't look like guff now.

https://archive.ph/2023.02.05-081709/https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/homenews/23300089.scotwind-scotland-faces-loss-60bn-new-offshore-wind-farms/%23comments-anchor


"SCOTLAND is expected to lose £60bn including billions from the public purse through the surrender of nearly two thirds of the potential supply chain bonanza and the 'underselling' of leasing rights for the offshore wind revolution, the Herald on Scotland can reveal"

From your friends at Commonweal.

Calls today for an enquiry, I'd be doubtful

[Ozyhibby]

Today's front page of the English Telegraph's front story is Salmond laying into Sturgeon.

Scenes, Jeff! When was the last time the Telegraph bigged him up????

What is the prize? Really, what is the bloody prize?

Is he worried about women’s rights?


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[WeeRussell]

How can you mistake Richard osman for Victoria Coren Mitchell 😂

I don’t know but it was definitely either Petrie or Sturgeon’s fault.

[Stairway 2 7]

Eis to start targeted action

EIS
@EISUnion
The response from Scottish Government & COSLA has been, essentially, nil – & this now has forced an escalation in our action. The offer of a 9% real-terms pay cut, which is what is on the table, will never be acceptable

https://www.eis.org.uk/latest-news/targetedaction

[He's here!]

Today's front page of the English Telegraph's front story is Salmond laying into Sturgeon.

Scenes, Jeff! When was the last time the Telegraph bigged him up????

What is the prize? Really, what is the bloody prize?

It's in most of the papers. He was speaking at the Alba Burns Supper in Dundee, where he said Sturgeon has 'thrown away 30 years of steadily building support for independence for the sake of some self-indulgent nonsense'.

The footage is shown here, the main take from which IMHO is that he doesn't look in the best of health:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11721761/Alex-Salmond-slams-Nicola-Sturgeon-nonsense-gender-rules-overhaul.html#v-9163804446052732108

[Glory Lurker]

It's in most of the papers. He was speaking at the Alba Burns Supper in Dundee, where he said Sturgeon has 'thrown away 30 years of steadily building support for independence for the sake of some self-indulgent nonsense'.

The footage is shown here, the main take from which IMHO is that he doesn't look in the best of health:

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11721761/Alex-Salmond-slams-Nicola-Sturgeon-nonsense-gender-rules-overhaul.html#v-9163804446052732108

My point is, why is the Telegraph, in England, running it as the main story?

[Kato]

Alba Burns Supper in Dundee

:boak

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[He's here!]

My point is, why is the Telegraph, in England, running it as the main story?

I'd be a bit surprised if it was the main story in their English edition but the furore around the issue has been national news so I guess they will deem it worthy of the front-page, especially as this is, as far as I know, the first time Salmond has made his views known on the bill.

[Glory Lurker]

I'd be a bit surprised if it was the main story in their English edition but the furore around the issue has been national news so I guess they will deem it worthy of the front-page, especially as this is, as far as I know, the first time Salmond has made his views known on the bill.

It was main story today.

Not a chance the basic newsworthiness of it merited that treatment. The establishment is scenting blood (rightly or wrongly) and they are chucking everything at it. They don't give a monkeys about the issue itself, it's all about attacking the SG.

[He's here!]

It was main story today.

Not a chance the basic newsworthiness of it merited that treatment. The establishment is scenting blood (rightly or wrongly) and they are chucking everything at it. They don't give a monkeys about the issue itself, it's all about attacking the SG.

Maybe they know something? Not unreasonable to suggest Sturgein may be considering her position.

Not just the 'right wing' press making mileage from the Salmond intervention mind you:

Alex Salmond knows Nicola Sturgeon’s grip on power is slipping - New Statesman (https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2023/02/alex-salmond-knows-nicola-sturgeon-grip-power-slipping)

[Hiber-nation]

Maybe they know something? Not unreasonable to suggest Sturgein may be considering her position.

Not just the 'right wing' press making mileage from the Salmond intervention mind you:

Alex Salmond knows Nicola Sturgeon’s grip on power is slipping - New Statesman (https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2023/02/alex-salmond-knows-nicola-sturgeon-grip-power-slipping)

There is only one pro-SNP newspaper. The Guardian have regularly criticised her so it's not a left v right thing and it's obviously not a pro-Salmomd thing. It's all about the media grasping at anything they can to turn voters against the SNP.

[Glory Lurker]

Maybe they know something? Not unreasonable to suggest Sturgein may be considering her position.

Not just the 'right wing' press making mileage from the Salmond intervention mind you:

Alex Salmond knows Nicola Sturgeon’s grip on power is slipping - New Statesman (https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/scotland/2023/02/alex-salmond-knows-nicola-sturgeon-grip-power-slipping)

If they knew something that would be the story. I never mentioned right wing press. This is the establishment. The same one that protects Prince Andrew with diversionary attacks on Meghan. The same establishment that want Scotland in its place.

Salmond's utterings are never ever English front page material.

[degenerated]

There is only one pro-SNP newspaper. The Guardian have regularly criticised her so it's not a left v right thing and it's obviously not a pro-Salmomd thing. It's all about the media grasping at anything they can to turn voters against the SNP.Aye, the unionist media are fair going for it just now. :greengrin

They may do what the unionist parties can't do at the ballot box and force sturgeon out but i suspect it might backfire on them in the long run. 26452

[Hiber-nation]

Aye, the unionist media are fair going for it just now. :greengrin

They may do what the unionist parties can't do at the ballot box and force sturgeon out but i suspect it might backfire on them in the long run. 26452

Quality :greengrin

I've met one of the Herald's main writers, Martin Williams and he'd gladly publish that article if he could get away with it such is his hatred of the SNP.

[He's here!]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64555543

More from Salmond in a BBC interview.

[Glory Lurker]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64555543

More from Salmond in a BBC interview.

I can't decide if Salmond being the poster boy for unionists says more about him or you guys!

[degenerated]

I can't decide if Salmond being the poster boy for unionists says more about him or you guys!We're through the looking glass now where wings over bath and Alex salmond are the goto's for the unionists. :hilarious

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64562832
Good man. Starting to like this guy a lot.[emoji106]


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[marinello59]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64562832
Good man. Starting to like this guy a lot.[emoji106]


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:confused:

How has having his phone hacked won your admiration.? :greengrin

[J-C]

Aye, the unionist media are fair going for it just now. :greengrin

They may do what the unionist parties can't do at the ballot box and force sturgeon out but i suspect it might backfire on them in the long run. 26452


Ridiculous, I can't remember what I had either that morning and does it really matter, if this is what they call journalism nowadays I'm glad I stopped reading the papers a long time ago.

[Stairway 2 7]

Ridiculous, I can't remember what I had either that morning and does it really matter, if this is what they call journalism nowadays I'm glad I stopped reading the papers a long time ago.

It's a joke. It's comparing not knowing what you had for breakfast months ago, to not remembering your husband giving the party your head of 100k of your family money.

They either have a weird marriage or they are exceedingly rich than 100k isn't a big deal

[Hibrandenburg]

Aye, the unionist media are fair going for it just now. :greengrin

They may do what the unionist parties can't do at the ballot box and force sturgeon out but i suspect it might backfire on them in the long run. 26452

Surely that's a wind-up?

[Pretty Boy]

It's a joke. It's comparing not knowing what you had for breakfast months ago, to not remembering your husband giving the party your head of 100k of your family money.

They either have a weird marriage or they are exceedingly rich than 100k isn't a big deal

The FM has a memory like a sieve.

Couldn't recall when she was told her long term political ally and one time mentor was being accused of serious sexual crimes, pretty big and shocking news you would think. Couldn't recall her husband donating a not insignificant sum of personal money to the party you lead.

Stick a blue or red rosette on her and a few more people might be questioning if it was just a memory problem.:wink:

[marinello59]

It's a joke. It's comparing not knowing what you had for breakfast months ago, to not remembering your husband giving the party your head of 100k of your family money.

They either have a weird marriage or they are exceedingly rich than 100k isn't a big deal

:agree:
Not a very funny one but a joke none the less. It could have been worse, they could have specifically mentioned the rule breaking £100k donation. I wouldn't dare. :greengrin

[grunt]

Couldn't recall her husband donating a not insignificant sum of personal money to the party you lead.
Except that's not what has been reported is it? Still, makes a good story eh? Something to get angry about.

[Curried]

If they knew something that would be the story. I never mentioned right wing press. This is the establishment. The same one that protects Prince Andrew with diversionary attacks on Meghan. The same establishment that want Scotland in its place.

Salmond's utterings are never ever English front page material.

They are from an ABN perspective.

[He's here!]

:confused:

How has having his phone hacked won your admiration.? :greengrin

Strange one.

He's later put himself in the frame for a leadership bid:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64566957

[Mibbes Aye]

I recall Sturgeon talking recently about 'democracy-denying' and let's face it, democracy should be cherished and protected.

I assume that means she will respond positively to Susan Aitken, the SNP leader of Glasgow City Council.

Susan is concerned about democracy. In fact, Susan is concerned about democracy at the closest it gets to us good citizens of these parts - voting and electing our councillors.

This is what Susan said - I hope she doesn'i mind, I've highlighed some bits in bold:


"...what we cannot be is treated solely as a delivery vehicle for national priorities at the expense of local needs. Almost the entirety of the additional £550million announced for local government in December has to be directed at national priorities. It did little or nothing for Glasgow’s budget gap, protecting the policies Ministers were elected on rather than the services local councils are expected to deliver.

The choices demanded by Scotland’s financial position are weighing heavily on everyone elected to represent our citizens. But it's councillors who are accountable for decisions about local public services. Our call to remove the restrictions holding us back from setting local priorities and taking local decisions isn’t just about democracy and accountability, it’s about the very survival of those services at this critical time.

Glasgow City Council’s budget needs to fund all of Glasgow’s services and so - with the greatest respect to colleagues at Holyrood - the decisions about it must and will be made here in Glasgow"


Well said Susan.

Hopefully Sturgeon reads her piece and heeds these wise words. And I don't mean just to prove she wasn't being a total hypocrite about 'democracy-denying', I'm not interested in tawdry accusations like that.

No, I'm interested iin democracy-promoting! And what better way to show you value democracy than to entrust decision-making about communities to those ellected closest to their communities. :aok:

[Mibbes Aye]

And on the subject of promoting democracy at a local level, I note that the National Records of Scotland has started publihing Scottish Government papers from 2007.

These include John Swinney talking about threatening councils with stripping away their elected responsibilities for education and creating a National Education Service, if they didn't play ball with the council tax freeze.

A couple of SNP tropes here that are all too familiar

1) Centralising public services and taking control away from locally-elected representatives (e.g. police, fire, the carcrash that is the mooted National Care Service)

2) Putting stuff in their manifesto that they don't legally have the power to do (freezing CT was an SNP manifesto commitment but setting CT was the responsibility of councils, hence the need for threats and bullying re stripping powers away from locally-accountable representatives).

Same old, same old, isn't it?

[Ozyhibby]

I recall Sturgeon talking recently about 'democracy-denying' and let's face it, democracy should be cherished and protected.

I assume that means she will respond positively to Susan Aitken, the SNP leader of Glasgow City Council.

Susan is concerned about democracy. In fact, Susan is concerned about democracy at the closest it gets to us good citizens of these parts - voting and electing our councillors.

This is what Susan said - I hope she doesn'i mind, I've highlighed some bits in bold:


"...what we cannot be is treated solely as a delivery vehicle for national priorities at the expense of local needs. Almost the entirety of the additional £550million announced for local government in December has to be directed at national priorities. It did little or nothing for Glasgow’s budget gap, protecting the policies Ministers were elected on rather than the services local councils are expected to deliver.

The choices demanded by Scotland’s financial position are weighing heavily on everyone elected to represent our citizens. But it's councillors who are accountable for decisions about local public services. Our call to remove the restrictions holding us back from setting local priorities and taking local decisions isn’t just about democracy and accountability, it’s about the very survival of those services at this critical time.

Glasgow City Council’s budget needs to fund all of Glasgow’s services and so - with the greatest respect to colleagues at Holyrood - the decisions about it must and will be made here in Glasgow"


Well said Susan.

Hopefully Sturgeon reads her piece and heeds these wise words. And I don't mean just to prove she wasn't being a total hypocrite about 'democracy-denying', I'm not interested in tawdry accusations like that.

No, I'm interested iin democracy-promoting! And what better way to show you value democracy than to entrust decision-making about communities to those ellected closest to their communities. :aok:

Agree with her 100%. The situation where layers of government rely on grant funding from other layers of govt is just as wrong with the funding of councils as it is with the Scottish govt.


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[Mibbes Aye]

Agree with her 100%. The situation where layers of government rely on grant funding from other layers of govt is just as wrong with the funding of councils as it is with the Scottish govt.


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She isn't talking about relying on funding Oxy, she is talking about control on how and where to spend it. That's a world of difference.

[Ozyhibby]

She isn't talking about relying on funding Oxy, she is talking about control on how and where to spend it. That's a world of difference.

That control comes from the source of the funding though. You said yourself in your post that the SG were able to threaten to withdraw funding in order to get councils to do their bidding.
Councils should raise their own money so that they are able to concentrate on local priorities. There is too much centralisation in the UK.


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[Ozyhibby]

And a little bit less centralisation and we might not even have an independence movement?


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[grunt]

No, I'm interested iin democracy-promoting! And what better way to show you value democracy than to entrust decision-making about communities to those ellected closest to their communities. :aok:
Seems to me that it's nothing to do with democracy, she's complaining about not having enough budget for her local authority. Well join the club, Susan. The stuff about being provided with funds to spend on national priorities is a red herring.

[Berwickhibby]

And a little bit less centralisation and we might not even have an independence movement?


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🤣🤣🤣🤣 this SNP Government has centralised everything it possibly can, Police, Fire Service, Control rooms Hospital A&E etc

[marinello59]

Fergus Ewing is not accepting any excuses for what he sees as a betrayal over the A9.

https://www.inverness-courier.co.uk/news/fergus-ewing-slams-snps-highland-betrayal-over-a9-duallin-302757/

[Ozyhibby]

[emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787][emoji1787] this SNP Government has centralised everything it possibly can, Police, Fire Service, Control rooms Hospital A&E etc

That’s what I said.


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[Mibbes Aye]

Seems to me that it's nothing to do with democracy, she's complaining about not having enough budget for her local authority. Well join the club, Susan. The stuff about being provided with funds to spend on national priorities is a red herring.

It's not I'm afraid. If you read it properly you can see she's protesting about money being ring-fenced according to what mnisters want, not what councils want.

And councils are the closest tier of democracy in our lives.

[Mibbes Aye]

That control comes from the source of the funding though. You said yourself in your post that the SG were able to threaten to withdraw funding in order to get councils to do their bidding.
Councils should raise their own money so that they are able to concentrate on local priorities. There is too much centralisation in the UK.


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There's a difference between giving funding with conditions attached and taking schools out of local control.

Neither are positive but it is the former which Ms Aitken points to as a denial of democracy.

[Mibbes Aye]

That’s what I said.


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I said it before you or him :grr: :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

At least we all agree that each layer of govt needs responsible and accountable for the money it raises and spends. Having another layer of govt deciding how money is granted or spent undermines democracy.


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[Jack]

🤣🤣🤣🤣 this SNP Government has centralised everything it possibly can, Police, Fire Service, Control rooms Hospital A&E etc

How are hospital A&E centralised?

[degenerated]

How are hospital A&E centralised?Someone should tell the 8 regional health boards in Scotland, they deserve to know

[Berwickhibby]

Someone should tell the 8 regional health boards in Scotland, they deserve to know

Closed A&E in Dunfermline to merge with Kirkcaldy,,,, I think they know

[ronaldo7]

Labour councillors in Glasgow won't be proposing an alternative budget to the SNP one.

It's like they've given up on democracy.

[Mibbes Aye]

Someone should tell the 8 regional health boards in Scotland, they deserve to know

NHS Forth Valley brought under direct government control. I think they know.

[ronaldo7]

NHS Forth Valley brought under direct government control. I think they know.

Permanent or special measures?

[Mibbes Aye]

Someone should tell the 8 regional health boards in Scotland, they deserve to know

They all have to provide SG with Local Delivery Plans showing how they will meet SG's priorities. I think they know that too.

[Mibbes Aye]

Permanent or special measures?

To be accurate, special measures is English terminology.

In Scotland we choose different desriptors (although they pretty much mean the same thing and people refer to SM here).

There isn't a timescale on how long a board stays in stage 4 or stage 5 on the performance escalation framework. Depends on the success of their recovery plan. Or potentially SG can dissolve the board.

[Ozyhibby]

Health boards a bit different in that they are not tied to council areas and they do have to answer to someone so it has to be the SG.


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[ronaldo7]

To be accurate, special measures is English terminology.

In Scotland we choose different desriptors (although they pretty much mean the same thing and people refer to SM here).

There isn't a timescale on how long a board stays in stage 4 or stage 5 on the performance escalation framework. Depends on the success of their recovery plan. Or potentially SG can dissolve the board.

Not permanent then. That's good to know. 👍

[Mibbes Aye]

Not permanent then. That's good to know. 👍

I don''t think it's been that good for patients in Forth Valley.

[ronaldo7]

I don''t think it's been that good for patients in Forth Valley.

I'm sure they're working hard on the plan you've indicated a few posts up. 👆

[Mibbes Aye]

Health boards a bit different in that they are not tied to council areas and they do have to answer to someone so it has to be the SG.


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They sort of are though. The SG enacted legislation in 2016 which compelled health boards to develop a scheme of integration with the, or any, councils that were located within the health board geography. Wise heads counselled that it mustn't just be structural reform, that path had been taken before and it ended in folly. But what happened?

Much structural reform, much upheavel, much cost all to pursue 'better outcomes' despite solid research evidence that structural reform does not lead to better outcomes by itself, working culture, processes and practices need addressed as well as the in-built hierarchies you get in health systems and between health and social care.

Five years later, it then gets unceremoniously dumped as the SG decides that a National Care Service, supporting Community Health and Social Care Boards is the way to go, the silver bullet, the panacea. With more upheaval and cost and uncertainty all in the post (or in the courier van, to keep it modern!).

It would be depressing and borderline absurd if it wasn't for the fact that this affects everybdy's lives, everybody's wellbeing. And none more so than the weak, the ill and the vulnerable.

[Mibbes Aye]

I'm sure they're working hard on the plan you've indicated a few posts up. 👆

I suspect you don't know what the recovery plan says, let alone what stage its actions are at. The ink is barely dry on any remedial work.

I'll stick with evidence rather than blind faith.

[grunt]

It's not I'm afraid. If you read it properly you can see she's protesting about money being ring-fenced according to what mnisters want, not what councils want.

And councils are the closest tier of democracy in our lives.

Perhaps you're the one who should read my post "properly".

[grunt]

It's not I'm afraid. If you read it properly you can see she's protesting about money being ring-fenced according to what mnisters want, not what councils want.

And councils are the closest tier of democracy in our lives.

Btw I'm sick of your condescending posts so don't bother answering.

[Mibbes Aye]

Perhaps you're the one who should read my post "properly".

You said she was complaining about the size of her budget. She isn't. She is complaining about being told what to do with it by SG.

[Jack]

Closed A&E in Dunfermline to merge with Kirkcaldy,,,, I think they know

Fife HB.

[Moulin Yarns]

Closed A&E in Dunfermline to merge with Kirkcaldy,,,, I think they know

The Victoria has been the main hospital in Fife for decades!!!

[Berwickhibby]

The Victoria has been the main hospital in Fife for decades!!!

And Queen Margaret used to have an A & E ..what’s your point