Jambos Legal Challenge

[Fuzzywuzzy]

So they replied to kheridine but he doesn't actually say what they said?? Wtf?

[hibsbollah]

The Patrick Thistle of Hibs.net[emoji6]

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I'll take that with bells on and twice on Sundays:agree:
To war! The SFA wont know what hit em. Like McCraes Battalion all over again.

[theonlywayisup]

Hearts just trying to set the agenda again on Saturday sportsound. Guaranteed to spend the whole first half of the program talking about them again now even though it says absolutely nothing.


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That's what I was thinking too. That said, if the letter does talk about "expulsion" then it's probably the biggest sports story in Scotland since Rangers FC became The Rangers.

[matty_f]

You'd have to think that the SPFL run these things by their legal team before sending them if they're in any way contentious - especially with a court case against two of their members looming.

[Peevemor]

Kelty & Brora must be rubbing their hands.

[Peevemor]

You'd have to think that the SPFL run these things by their legal team before sending them if they're in any way contentious - especially with a court case against two of their members looming.What's the point? They'll never beat Leslie Deans.

[Bostonhibby]

I'll take that with bells on and twice on Sundays:agree:
To war! The SFA wont know what hit em. Like McCraes Battalion all over again.Is that before or after Hearts kept their money? Just asking because they might not be the force they were given their funds were stolen.

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[theonlywayisup]

Kelty & Brora must be rubbing their hands.

Mon the Hearts and Rangers :greengrin

Did I really write that!

[Andy74]

I think the SPFL have a duty to ensure their associated members are updated and if this is by letter then do be it.

I am also certain that ND and co would have taken the relevant/necessary advice prior to sending anything of this nature out.

What I really want is to know what is contained in this letter!


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Exactly. As I said above when you take action against something you are a member of you can’t expect not to hear the views of the board and wider membership.

[marinello59]

Tom English earning his money there by explaining that the toxic two are a bit angry. Wonderful insight.

[Bostonhibby]

What's the point? They'll never beat Leslie Deans.Yep, with experts like this, this time next year Hearts will be millionaires. Lovely jubbly.

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[CallumLaidlaw]

So they replied to kheridine but he doesn't actually say what they said?? Wtf?

They said “no comment”


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[calumhibee1]

I said a few days back, Budge and their fans are that ****ing nuts that I wouldn’t be surprised if they end up booted out the league. I genuinely think they’ll risk absolutely everything here even though they’ve no potential to win this case.

[matty_f]

Tom English earning his money there by explaining that the toxic two are a bit angry. Wonderful insight.

Listened to the Sportsound podcast from the other day yesterday, and he said "The SPFL board's job was to get consensus and try were an abject failure in doing that" - no, Tom, they got consensus from enough clubs that they reached a decision. Just because you don't like decision, doesn't mean clubs didn't agree to it.

[007]

Despite no one seeing it the Hearts and Huns supporters are out in force alleging bullying, corruption and incompetence.

Hopefully we get some details shortly.

They've been chucking threats about for weeks but can't handle it when they get given a bit back.

Maybe it is something along the lines of drop the case or face the consequences, such as expulsion.

[Since452]

Hearts just trying to set the agenda again on Saturday sportsound. Guaranteed to spend the whole first half of the program talking about them again now even though it says absolutely nothing.


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I don't think Sportsound has enough listeners for Hearts to concern themselves with it tbh

[Aldo]

Exactly. As I said above when you take action against something you are a member of you can’t expect not to hear the views of the board and wider membership.

I said earlier for months they have spouted their pish to one and all. Now the SPFL are playing Budge at her own game and doesn’t like it. Timing is questionable. REALLY Ann not like you’ve done things recently to try and get a bit of sympathy. Not that ND is doing this now.

Hopefully someone will leak it


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[hibbyfraelibby]

Our kids used to call the Teletubbies "The Smellytubbies" and renamed them GaGa, Dipstick, Stinky-Winky and Pooh.

The question is, which one is which over there?

GaGa is the Budgemeistress surely
Stinky-Winky can only be Lord Pishy Breeks
Dipstick is The Launder Deans aka SaughtonJambo
Pooh would be a collective term for their team

[tamig]

Listened to the Sportsound podcast from the other day yesterday, and he said "The SPFL board's job was to get consensus and try were an adjective failure in doing that" - no, Tom, they got consensus from enough clubs that they reached a decision. Just because you don't like decision, doesn't mean clubs didn't agree to it.
So in his mind only a unanimous vote would pass the test? He continues to make an erse of it all.

[CallumLaidlaw]

Sportsound trying to call dundee Utd, “Club 12”. Clearly corrected by SPFL guy that’s on. Idiots.


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[calumhibee1]

Sportsound trying to call dundee Utd, “Club 12”. Clearly corrected by SPFL guy that’s on. Idiots.


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That show is an absolute ****ing joke.

[gaz1875]

Tom English earning his money there by explaining that the toxic two are a bit angry. Wonderful insight.


He sounds like someone has smacked him in the mouth?? lol

[grunt]

Sportsound trying to call dundee Utd, “Club 12”. Clearly corrected by SPFL guy that’s on. Idiots.


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Beggars belief. Richard Gordon must know the correct position and must realise that Dundee United are in the Premiership fair and square.

[Kato]

What's the point? They'll never beat Leslie Deans.Or his tentacles.

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[Del Boy]

Beggars belief. Richard Gordon must know the correct position and must realise that Dundee United are in the Premiership fair and square.

That was embarrassing from Richard Gordon.

[hibsbollah]

Is that before or after Hearts kept their money? Just asking because they might not be the force they were given their funds were stolen.

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After. But thats not important because we're sharing the £10 million. Which is a lot of (drumroll...) Poppy.

[Del Boy]

If this letter has been sent to every club I find it astonishing that no club has passed a copy yet to a journalist.

[Springbank]

If this letter has been sent to every club I find it astonishing that no club has passed a copy yet to a journalist.

Suggests awareness of and agreement with the letter

[Peevemor]

Is it any wonder some people think the game in Scotland is a joke when you have a publicly funded national broadcaster showing so much disrespect?

[Bostonhibby]

After. But thats not important because we're sharing the £10 million. Which is a lot of (drumroll...) Poppy.[emoji16]

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[007]

On the Sportsound when Budge was squealing about having to put something in writing re the James Anderson money, Doncaster's response included:

“I have had a number of conversations with Ann this week, including one that also involved another club chairman.

"I am delighted to have heard Ann’s comment on the radio this afternoon that there are, in fact, no conditions attached to this money."

This made it sound like the JA money originally seemed to be offered with strings, such as reconstruction, attached so maybe the letter is accusing her of inappropriate behaviour/bribery. Certainly if the positions were reversed you'd expect Hearts to be playing the accusation of bribery card.

[JohnMcM]

Suggests awareness of and agreement with the letter

Agree with you. Up to this point it seems to be the case that what was disagreed with, was leaked. :agree:

[mal]

On the Sportsound when Budge was squealing about having to put something in writing re the James Anderson money, Doncaster's response included:

“I have had a number of conversations with Ann this week, including one that also involved another club chairman.

"I am delighted to have heard Ann’s comment on the radio this afternoon that there are, in fact, no conditions attached to this money."

This made it sound like the JA money originally seemed to be offered with strings, such as reconstruction, attached so maybe the letter is accusing her of inappropriate behaviour/bribery. Certainly if the positions were reversed you'd expect Hearts to be playing the accusation of bribery card.

If they didn't want to be accused of bribery they probably shouldn't have put it in black and white in their "proposal" document.

[Peevemor]

I reckon that the expulsion of Hearts & Thistle is mentioned in the SPFL's response to the joint action and Doncaster has written to all member clubs to prepare them to this effect.

[04Sauzee]

I reckon that the expulsion of Hearts & Thistle is mentioned in the SPFL's response to the joint action and Doncaster has written to all member clubs to prepare them to this effect.

With news like this im not going to need these blue pills that I keep seeing advertised on here now.

[Fuzzywuzzy]

I reckon that the expulsion of Hearts & Thistle is mentioned in the SPFL's response to the joint action and Doncaster has written to all member clubs to prepare them to this effect.

That'd be nice. Be funny if thistle took hearts to court for getting them kicked out the league

[BroxburnHibee]

Sportsound trying to call dundee Utd, “Club 12”. Clearly corrected by SPFL guy that’s on. Idiots.


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I heard that and couldn't believe he could come out with that!

I suppose as a Don's fan he couldn't help himself.

Least the SFA boy put him in his place.

[tamig]

If they didn't want to be accused of bribery they probably shouldn't have put it in black and white in their "proposal" document.

Was that one of the nonsense earlier ones where she said they had the means to help every team in Scotland but they could only provide that help as a Prem club? Think that was the same time as the infamous “the Premiership needs Hearts more than the Championship does.”

[tamig]

That'd be nice. Be funny if thistle took hearts to court for getting them kicked out the league

They’ve put a noose round their own neck by teaming up with the Gorgie goons. Hell mend them.

[hibsbollah]

Partick Thistle have won the League Cup more recently than Hearts.

They also have better celebrity fans.

I think they deserve a bigger slice of the £10million pie.

Im trying to get through to Sportsound to discuss this, but they have moved on to talking about Virgil Van Dyke.

[mal]

Was that one of the nonsense earlier ones where she said they had the means to help every team in Scotland but they could only provide that help as a Prem club? Think that was the same time as the infamous “the Premiership needs Hearts more than the Championship does.”

That's right. It explicitly claimed that what would later emerge to be Anderson's charitable donation was funding that would come from Hearts. Any reasonably competent journalist ought to have been all over it.

[Jim44]

Listened to the Sportsound podcast from the other day yesterday, and he said "The SPFL board's job was to get consensus and try were an abject failure in doing that" - no, Tom, they got consensus from enough clubs that they reached a decision. Just because you don't like decision, doesn't mean clubs didn't agree to it.


So in his mind only a unanimous vote would pass the test? He continues to make an erse of it all.

He is really not a very clever person. That’s all.

[cabbageandribs1875]

He is really not a very clever person. That’s all.


i've not listened to sportsound for four weeks now but richard gordon was telling all on off the ball how wonderful tom english is... just a mention of his name makes me :sick:

[flash]

I will be glad when this is all over regardless of which way it goes. None of us know who will win in court and the deeply entrenched positions on both sides are not based on any level of legal knowledge that I can see.

[Wakeyhibee]

On the Sportsound when Budge was squealing about having to put something in writing re the James Anderson money, Doncaster's response included:

“I have had a number of conversations with Ann this week, including one that also involved another club chairman.

"I am delighted to have heard Ann’s comment on the radio this afternoon that there are, in fact, no conditions attached to this money."

This made it sound like the JA money originally seemed to be offered with strings, such as reconstruction, attached so maybe the letter is accusing her of inappropriate behaviour/bribery. Certainly if the positions were reversed you'd expect Hearts to be playing the accusation of bribery card.

Heard the same at the the time and thought that was done and worded quite purposely for this scenario. Ie he has a witness in the other chairman, as to the nature of the "donation".

This letter has rattled their cage and I think it is not in their favour.

[McD]

Could be be entertaining if Budge is put on the stand.

She can’t seem to remember what she has said from one day to the next.


she’s also partial to comments along the lines of ‘ the board have executive powers to make changes, but I’ve not checked the articles’ - in other words, someone’s mentioned it to me and I’m throwing it out there publicly but I’ve not bothered to check if it’s accurate

[Waxy]

I will be glad when this is all over regardless of which way it goes. None of us know who will win in court and the deeply entrenched positions on both sides are not based on any level of legal knowledge that I can see.

Really?

[flash]

Really?

To which bit?

[Man Down Under]

It just keeps getting better, considering there's been no football, it's been pretty entertaining. Can't wait for the box set.

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[Scotty Leither]

Well i'm nae conveyancing lawyer, but that uncharacteristically brief statement from over the road suggests to me that a giant bluff has been called and they've been told in no uncertain terms to drop their action or risk expulsion.

I also think that all SPFL clubs have been told not to leak its contents to the press either, or else risk sanctions.

Cue a humiliating climbdown from Budge next week, accompanied by a hateful, tear and snotters-ridden missive from Deans to all his disciples.

Looking forward to it.

[Andy74]

I will be glad when this is all over regardless of which way it goes. None of us know who will win in court and the deeply entrenched positions on both sides are not based on any level of legal knowledge that I can see.

We are dealing with the law now so deeply entrenched positions have little to do with it. One side will have a correct interpretation of the facts against the relevant laws and one side will have an incorrect interpretation and the court will rule on it based on the law.

The document has been available to view and there have been a number of people who have been able to look at it from a legal standpoint and given an assessment. Some of those people do have the relevant legal knowledge.

It isn’t 50/50. I’m very confident they are wrong in a number of their technical observations. Their references to fairness etc in their case just isn’t relevant. Strange things do happen from time to time but it is my informed view that they will lose the case.

[greenginger]

Heard the same at the the time and thought that was done and worded quite purposely for this scenario. Ie he has a witness in the other chairman, as to the nature of the "donation".

This letter has rattled their cage and I think it is not in their favour.

If the SPFL letter is about the Anderson money it would not invole Thistle.
I think it's more to do with the consequences of continuing the court case.

[Waxy]

To which bit?

What makes you think Hearts and Partick could win this with no case?

[flash]

We are dealing with the law now so deeply entrenched positions have little to do with it. One side will have a correct interpretation of the facts against the relevant laws and one side will have an incorrect interpretation and the court will rule on it based on the law.

The document has been available to view and there have been a number of people who have been able to look at it from a legal standpoint and given an assessment. Some of those people do have the relevant legal knowledge.

It isn’t 50/50. I’m very confident they are wrong in a number of their technical observations. Their references to fairness etc in their case just isn’t relevant. Strange things do happen from time to time but it is my informed view that they will lose the case.

Appreciate that Andy but I don't trust Doncaster and co as far as I can throw them. I know we have all been forced to rewrite history recently but there was almost universal contempt for him before all this started.

[flash]

What makes you think Hearts and Partick could win this with no case?

They feel they can win thus presumably based on legal opinion. I believe a lot of said opinion can be open to interpretation so both sides will probably think they have a decent case.

[Caversham Green]

Well i'm nae conveyancing lawyer, but that uncharacteristically brief statement from over the road suggests to me that a giant bluff has been called and they've been told in no uncertain terms to drop their action or risk expulsion.

I also think that all SPFL clubs have been told not to leak its contents to the press either, or else risk sanctions.

Cue a humiliating climbdown from Budge next week, accompanied by a hateful, tear and snotters-ridden missive from Deans to all his disciples.

Looking forward to it.

:agree: The HoMFC/PT statement looks rather panicked to me. I suspect the letter itself was labelled strictly private and confidential, and as you say warned of dire consequences if any of it is leaked. If that is the case, the statement could well be a bit of an own goal as even though it doesn't reveal the contents of the letter it does comment on them. Contempt of court?

[Wakeyhibee]

If the SPFL letter is about the Anderson money it would not invole Thistle.
I think it's more to do with the consequences of continuing the court case.

Fair comment. I wonder if Partick might withdraw. They must realise theyve only been included due to their circumstances being more credible than Hearts re relegation.

[Scotty Leither]

Fair comment. I wonder if Partick might withdraw. They must realise theyve only been included due to their circumstances being more credible than Hearts re relegation.

:agree: Or that they've been cynically used and exploited by them to further their own ends. It is their usual M.O. after all.

[Waxy]

They feel they can win thus presumably based on legal opinion. I believe a lot of said opinion can be open to interpretation so both sides will probably think they have a decent case.

All of which means they’ll have to deal in facts.
Hearts finished bottom and the SPFL company was in agreement to relegate them on sporting merit.
Hearts and Partick have just blabbered on about the vote.

[Mikey]

I reckon that the expulsion of Hearts & Thistle is mentioned in the SPFL's response to the joint action and Doncaster has written to all member clubs to prepare them to this effect.

The fixtures are out......

Partick Thistle v Hearts

Hearts v Partick Thistle

Partick Thistle v Hearts

Hearts v Partick Thistle

Partick Thistle v Hearts

Hearts v Partick Thistle

Partick Thistle v Hearts

Hearts v Partick Thistle

Partick Thistle v Hearts

Hearts v Partick Thistle

Partick Thistle v Hearts

Hearts v Partick Thistle

Partick Thistle v Hearts

Hearts v Partick Thistle

Partick Thistle v Hearts

Hearts v Partick Thistle

Partick Thistle v Hearts

Hearts v Partick Thistle


Hearts are taking Partick to court as they wanted to be at home for the first game of the season.

[flash]

That took a bit of typing Mikey but was well worth it.

[WhileTheChief..]

I think the letter is primarily to all the other clubs, not specifically to Hearts and Partick.

Probably puts Hearts in a bad light or gives info out that Hearts don’t want known by the other clubs, hence they take the huff.

It’s always someone’s else’s fault eh. Never them.

[Del Boy]

I think the letter is primarily to all the other clubs, not specifically to Hearts and Partick.

Probably puts Hearts in a bad light or gives info out that Hearts don’t want known by the other clubs, hence they take the huff.

It’s always someone’s else’s fault eh. Never them.


I think this will be close to what’s happened, basically an update on what’s happening ie court hearing next Wednesday and Hearts have taken offence to the wording and description of what’s happening.

[Topographic Hibby]

I think this will be close to what’s happened, basically an update on what’s happening ie court hearing next Wednesday and Hearts have taken offence to the wording and description of what’s happening.Its one of the ironies/complexities of the case.

HMFC/PTFC are taking action against SPFL which HMFC/PTFC are members. So when SPFL update the other clubs on the court action, they are circulating it to its 42 members. Which includes HMFC/PTFC.

SPFL are damned if they had excluded them; and likewise are damned for including them. :rolleyes:

[NASAHIBS]

My first thoughts were that, with the new season due to kick off in 5 weeks, the SPFL have issued a letter to all member clubs as a gentle reminder of the rule(s) regarding issues/disagreements and the correct process to follow if matters arise(ie must go through SPFL, SFA, CAS). Also a reminder that failure to follow the correct process can lead to expulsion etc.
That would tie in with Budge saying it is wrong(ie they haven't followed that process), and about the timing(reminder of rules with hearing on Wednesday).

Doncaster isn't daft, and hopefully is getting it right up them:greengrin

[SMAXXA]

Are these goons for real, they want to be able to stream the court case, it’s a court of law not a reality tv show 🤦🏻*♂️ Idiots man

[Bostonhibby]

Are these goons for real, they want to be able to stream the court case, it’s a court of law not a reality tv show [emoji1750]*[emoji3603] Idiots manFeaturing Mrs doctor Budge as Judge Judy and Leslie Deans as Perry Mason.

SPFL will be represented by Lionel Nutmeg to complete the farce the thieves and their fall guys have created.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200627/38f1cf2814dadc82a8512595626b837a.jpg

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[McSwanky]

Featuring Mrs doctor Budge as Judge Judy and Leslie Deans as Perry Mason.

SPFL will be represented by Lionel Nutmeg to complete the farce the thieves and their fall guys have created.https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200627/38f1cf2814dadc82a8512595626b837a.jpg

Sent from my SM-A750FN using TapatalkBrilliant!

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[Scotty Leither]

I think the letter is primarily to all the other clubs, not specifically to Hearts and Partick.

Probably puts Hearts in a bad light or gives info out that Hearts don’t want known by the other clubs, hence they take the huff.

It’s always someone’s else’s fault eh. Never them.

Good point - in which case I think it's imperative that some nosey bast...sorry "investigative journalist" puts it in the public domain.

It's only fair.

[Kato]

Are these goons for real, they want to be able to stream the court case, it’s a court of law not a reality tv show [emoji1750]*[emoji3603] Idiots manSlackjawed dimwits.

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[Since452]

It seems very apparent that Budge is feeling the pressure. What was the need for that defensive mini statement?

[Kato]

It seems very apparent that Budge is feeling the pressure. What was the need for that defensive mini statement?Probably sozzled. Poor auld dear.

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[Ozyhibby]

Good point - in which case I think it's imperative that some nosey bast...sorry "investigative journalist" puts it in the public domain.

It's only fair.

If it went to all 42 clubs then it’s amazing it is not out there already?


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[Fuzzywuzzy]

"38 minutes ago, Whatever said:

He is implying we have made our action public?



As you say, we have.



Im not following from your post what exactly he’s implying and where the anger from Hearts and Partick has stemmed from?



Sorry if that’s a stupid question.

Our Petition is a public document as are all Petitions. He appears to have implied that we should not have made our document public - which as the club statement says is just Wrong."


This seems to be the beef

[matty_f]

"38 minutes ago, Whatever said:

He is implying we have made our action public?



As you say, we have.



Im not following from your post what exactly he’s implying and where the anger from Hearts and Partick has stemmed from?



Sorry if that’s a stupid question.

Our Petition is a public document as are all Petitions. He appears to have implied that we should not have made our document public - which as the club statement says is just Wrong."


This seems to be the beef

Is it the specifics of the action that the SPFL object to? i.e. it's fine for Hearts to say "we're taking the SPFL to court" but not ok to say "we're taking the SPFL to court about these specific complaints..."?

[green day]

"38 minutes ago, Whatever said:

He is implying we have made our action public?



As you say, we have.



Im not following from your post what exactly he’s implying and where the anger from Hearts and Partick has stemmed from?



Sorry if that’s a stupid question.

Our Petition is a public document as are all Petitions. He appears to have implied that we should not have made our document public - which as the club statement says is just Wrong."


This seems to be the beef

This is just supposition presumably from yakback

- and if it was the case, surely the SPFL QC would jump on this on Wednesday?

That has nothing really to do with the other 40 clubs.

[Sudds_1]

:grr:

Not directed at you, but I wish posters would stop posting links without giving a clue as to what it states. Whilst the link says "Hearts court battle: France U-turn means clubs are relegated after all" that's not what appears in the post. Instead, it states "https://www.scotsman.com/sport/footb...er-all-2897000" which gives you no clue what the Scotsmans article is about.

As it turns out, the information in the link is pretty well known to those who frequent Hibs.net over the past couple of days.

A slight inconvenience, I know! Best to ignore me! :greengrin

Time of the month? 😁😇

[Sudds_1]

That took a bit of typing Mikey but was well worth it.

cut and paste? 😇😇

[Caversham Green]

"38 minutes ago, Whatever said:

He is implying we have made our action public?



As you say, we have.



Im not following from your post what exactly he’s implying and where the anger from Hearts and Partick has stemmed from?



Sorry if that’s a stupid question.

Our Petition is a public document as are all Petitions. He appears to have implied that we should not have made our document public - which as the club statement says is just Wrong."


This seems to be the beef

It stems from this post:


The SPFL letter is a circular to all clubs saying that despite requests they cannot inform the clubs what their defences are on Wed. That's correct but he is implying that Hearts / Partick have made their action public. All Court Petitions are posted public documents, the mans a clown. He needs to watch out as he is drifting into defamation territory.

He claims it came from a "senior football contact". First up, I don't believe him but if true the letter must also contain other comments otherwise the HoMFC statement wouldn't mention much of the content being misleading. That part of the statement suggests the letter was fairly substantial.

My guess is that it contained an outline of how the SPFL would present its case and stated that the case shouldn't be discussed with anyone from the two clubs as they are now the opposition. The statement is thus a message to the SPFL clubs rather than the Duncans. Either way it's pretty useless and probably ill-advised.

[CapitalGreen]

It stems from this post:



He claims it came from a "senior football contact". First up, I don't believe him but if true the letter must also contain other comments otherwise the HoMFC statement wouldn't mention much of the content being misleading. That part of the statement suggests the letter was fairly substantial.

My guess is that it contained an outline of how the SPFL would present its case and stated that the case shouldn't be discussed with anyone from the two clubs as they are now the opposition. The statement is thus a message to the SPFL clubs rather than the Duncans. Either way it's pretty useless and probably ill-advised.

Hearts statement said they received the letter along with PT and the other 40 clubs.

[green day]

From a hun on rwitter

https://twitter.com/joe_black1509/status/1276923087662039041?s=20

[Caversham Green]

Hearts statement said they received the letter along with PT and the other 40 clubs.

Yes, as members they had to. As I understand court process they would have an outline of the opposition's case pre-hearing anyway so the letter would just be updating the rest of the membership.

[Radium]

From a hun on rwitter

https://twitter.com/joe_black1509/status/1276923087662039041?s=20

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200627/1e6b1ce3e6d4f2923152709c3cb3f1b4.jpg

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200627/960c38fed481f8a65e82952f71a59a30.jpg


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[Barney McGrew]

How dare Rod McKenzie, as legal advisor to the SPFL, offer to give legal advice to members of the SPFL :rolleyes:

[Lago]

Is it any wonder some people think the game in Scotland is a joke when you have a publicly funded national broadcaster showing so much disrespect?
Pretty much par for the course, neutrality lost along time ago.

[Andy74]

How dare Rod McKenzie, as legal advisor to the SPFL, offer to give legal advice to members of the SPFL :rolleyes:

Yeah some strange comments below that. Not sure what people are taking from it but the SPFL is all the clubs and Hearts and Partick have taken action against them. Of course the SPFL is going to be giving updates and advice to its members.

[007]

"38 minutes ago, Whatever said:

He is implying we have made our action public?



As you say, we have.



Im not following from your post what exactly he’s implying and where the anger from Hearts and Partick has stemmed from?



Sorry if that’s a stupid question.

Our Petition is a public document as are all Petitions. He appears to have implied that we should not have made our document public - which as the club statement says is just Wrong."


This seems to be the beef


From a hun on rwitter

https://twitter.com/joe_black1509/status/1276923087662039041?s=20

Well nowhere in that snippet on Twitter does the SPFL imply that Hearts have been circulating documents. Several posts above Caversham Green quotes someone saying that other clubs have been asking the SPFL for info. All the snippet says is that member clubs have to apply to the court for the info. Okay so it is only part of the letter but if Hearts are thinking in that bit of the letter the SPFL are suggesting Hearts circulated documents then obviously paranoia is setting in because it clearly says nothing of the sort.

[bingo70]

Yeah some strange comments below that. Not sure what people are taking from it but the SPFL is all the clubs and Hearts and Partick have taken action against them. Of course the SPFL is going to be giving updates and advice to its members.

Is the argument not that the SPFL are encouraging it’s members to take legal action against two of its other members?

[Kojock]

How dare Rod McKenzie, as legal advisor to the SPFL, offer to give legal advice to members of the SPFL :rolleyes:

Why say we got a letter, were no happy with the content, here’s our statement on it but we need to see what our legal team say what needs to happen next. Surely Budgie on receipt of the letter should contact her legal team then issue a more informative statement.

[jacomo]

Hearts statement said they received the letter along with PT and the other 40 clubs.


“Dear SPFL member clubs,

Appreciate this is a worrying time, what with the global pandemic and all, made worse by those two ***** trying to sue is just because they are ***** but think everyone else should pick up the bill. Utter ******.

Just want to reassure you that we will be resolute in defending our case against this ***** ******. Those ******* are going to regret this.

Stay safe.

Cheers,
Rod

PS Hiya Jackie, hiya Ann.“

[green day]

Why say we got a letter, were no happy with the content, here’s our statement on it but we need to see what our legal team say what needs to happen next. Surely Budgie on receipt of the letter should contact her legal team then issue a more informative statement.

Because she cant help herself.

She is what we used to call a spoon.

[Andy74]

Is the argument not that the SPFL are encouraging it’s members to take legal action against two of its other members?

Unless there’s much more to the letter it doesn’t say anything like that in the snippets posted.

[ancient hibee]

What a fuss about nothing.Some clubs have clearly asked the SPFL what is in the answers lodged and the SPFL have said they can’t tell them unless they formally join in the action and if they want to do that the SPFL will tell them how.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Well nowhere in that snippet on Twitter does the SPFL imply that Hearts have been circulating documents. Several posts above Caversham Green quotes someone saying that other clubs have been asking the SPFL for info and all the snippet says is that member clubs have to apply to the court for the info. Okay so it is only part of the letter but if Hearts are thinking in that bit of the letter the SPFL are suggesting Hearts circulated documents then obviously paranoia is setting in because it clearly says nothing of the sort.

Their full lodgement was posted on Keekboak a few days ago and discussed in great detail by the legal eaglets over there. Not sure who pisted it but as you can only apply for a copy if you are s party to the case I cannonly assume someone on the inside at the Pink Palace of Pontification, possibly with laundering connections, decided to publish a court document without the permission of the Session Clerk.

Lord Clark will not be amused when brought to his attention by the responder, hence the statement.

The SPFL are playing this by the book, Budgie is playing according to which voice is in her head.

[brog]

What a fuss about nothing.Some clubs have clearly asked the SPFL what is in the answers lodged and the SPFL have said they can’t tell them unless they formally join in the action and if they want to do that the SPFL will tell them how.

Perfect & succinct summary! It will never catch on!

[Springbank]

Their full lodgement was posted on Keekboak a few days ago and discussed in great detail by the legal eaglets over there. Not sure who pisted it but as you can only apply for a copy if you are s party to the case I cannonly assume someone on the inside at the Pink Palace of Pontification, possibly with laundering connections, decided to publish a court document without the permission of the Session Clerk.

Lord Clark will not be amused when brought to his attention by the responder, hence the statement.

The SPFL are playing this by the book, Budgie is playing according to which voice is in her head.

Could be a wee financial penalty for hearts & thistle arising out of the "fans forum faux pas" when the court case commences

[Billy Whizz]

Could be a wee financial penalty for hearts & thistle arising out of the "fans forum faux pas" when the court case commences

A drop in the ocean, when the prize is £8m

[Springbank]

A drop in the ocean, when the prize is £8m

I suppose if I was looking to a court to award me an unreasonable sum like £8m then the first thing I would do is go out my way to disrespect the court process, say, by leaking the documents to a random fan to post on a random website too...

[Saturday Boy]

A drop in the ocean, when the prize is £8m

Just think how many Blissy pillowcases they could buy with that. The must have gift of 2020. Apparently 😄

[Jim44]

What a fuss about nothing.Some clubs have clearly asked the SPFL what is in the answers lodged and the SPFL have said they can’t tell them unless they formally join in the action and if they want to do that the SPFL will tell them how.

I must say I’m out my depth trying to understand the legal niceties, but, I thought that, as a club member of the SPFL, every club was formally joined in the action already.

[malcolm]

I must say I’m out my depth trying to understand the legal niceties, but, I thought that, as a club member of the SPFL, every club was formally joined in the action already.

Forget members of the league and think share owner.. if you owned shares in BT who are then taken to court in a civil action you are not going to get the court papers just because you own shares even if it is 1/42nd if the total share value :greengrin

[Irish_Steve]

Could be a wee financial penalty for hearts & thistle arising out of the "fans forum faux pas" when the court case commences

I still have a copy of it lol

[Jim44]

Forget members of the league and think share owner.. if you owned shares in BT who are then taken to court in a civil action you are not going to get the court papers just because you own shares even if it is 1/42nd if the total share value :greengrin

Fair enough. I can see where you’re coming from. :aok:

[Irish_Steve]

As per usual, the thickos on Brokeback know what`s in the letter ND sent


hibsarepants
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hibsarepants
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Posted 3 hours ago
The SPFL letter is a circular to all clubs saying that despite requests they cannot inform the clubs what their defences are on Wed. That's correct but he is implying that Hearts / Partick have made their action public. All Court Petitions are posted public documents, the mans a clown. He needs to watch out as he is drifting into defamation territory.

Quote

[JimBHibees]

Is it any wonder some people think the game in Scotland is a joke when you have a publicly funded national broadcaster showing so much disrespect?

Couldn't agree more totally shameful

[hibeerealist]

X
Their full lodgement was posted on Keekboak a few days ago and discussed in great detail by the legal eaglets over there. Not sure who pisted it but as you can only apply for a copy if you are s party to the case I cannonly assume someone on the inside at the Pink Palace of Pontification, possibly with laundering connections, decided to publish a court document without the permission of the Session Clerk.

Lord Clark will not be amused when brought to his attention by the responder, hence the statement.

The SPFL are playing this by the book, Budgie is playing according to which voice is in her head.

David McCaig posted it on keekback (think that is how you spell his name) and took it down very soon thereafter (maybe been warned or told to do so) however, how many folk downloaded it whilst it was up on the forum????

I certainly hope that it screws up any case they thought they might have had, popcorn anyone?

[hibeerealist]

I still have a copy of it lol


:aok: Yes you do IS

[marinello59]

As per usual, the thickos on Brokeback know what`s in the letter ND sent


hibsarepants
Newbie
hibsarepants
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235 posts
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Posted 3 hours ago
The SPFL letter is a circular to all clubs saying that despite requests they cannot inform the clubs what their defences are on Wed. That's correct but he is implying that Hearts / Partick have made their action public. All Court Petitions are posted public documents, the mans a clown. He needs to watch out as he is drifting into defamation territory.

Quote

If anybody knows the score it’s going to be a Kickback poster with the user name hibsarepants.:greengrin

[Kojock]

:aok: Yes you do IS

Or is it the Verminator??

[007]

As per usual, the thickos on Brokeback know what`s in the letter ND sent


hibsarepants
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hibsarepants
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Posted 3 hours ago
The SPFL letter is a circular to all clubs saying that despite requests they cannot inform the clubs what their defences are on Wed. That's correct but he is implying that Hearts / Partick have made their action public. All Court Petitions are posted public documents, the mans a clown. He needs to watch out as he is drifting into defamation territory.

Quote

Just from the posts copied onto here it seems like almost every day there's a new one of them with inside info suggesting they're on course for a victory. So far everything has gone against them: 1) the Good Friday vote, 2) the Rangers dossier vote, 3) Budge getting shot down by the SPFL cabal of 6 before even getting her chance to tell them about her proposal, 4) her 14-14-14/16, 5) JA money helping get clubs onside, 6) Rangers' 14-14-16/18, 7) the 14-10-10-10 & 8) executive powers to force through reconstruction (have I missed any?).

All along the way they've had someone saying it is a shoo-in for Hearts and that everything leading up to that point has been part of the plan choreographed by Budge (I have to admire their optimism) and every time they've failed. Now they're saying the SPFL board are clueless and are making cock ups that'll jeopardise their defence. Not sure I'd be putting much faith in someone who calls themselves hibsarepants. 😀

[FilipinoHibs]

Is the argument not that the SPFL are encouraging it’s members to take legal action against two of its other members?

No merely respondents to the legal action taken against the SPFL and the three clubs by Hearts/PT.

[JimBHibees]

“Dear SPFL member clubs,

Appreciate this is a worrying time, what with the global pandemic and all, made worse by those two ***** trying to sue is just because they are ***** but think everyone else should pick up the bill. Utter ******.

Just want to reassure you that we will be resolute in defending our case against this ***** ******. Those ******* are going to regret this.

Stay safe.

Cheers,
Rod

PS Hiya Jackie, hiya Ann.“

If it wasn't that it should have been. :greengrin

[jacomo]

Just from the posts copied onto here it seems like almost every day there's a new one of them with inside info suggesting they're on course for a victory. So far everything has gone against them: 1) the Good Friday vote, 2) the Rangers dossier vote, 3) Budge getting shot down by the SPFL cabal of 6 before even getting her chance to tell them about her proposal, 4) her 14-14-14/16, 5) JA money helping get clubs onside, 6) Rangers' 14-14-16/18, 7) the 14-10-10-10 & 8) executive powers to force through reconstruction (have I missed any?).

All along the way they've had someone saying it is a shoo-in for Hearts and that everything leading up to that point has been part of the plan choreographed by Budge (I have to admire their optimism) and every time they've failed. Now they're saying the SPFL board are clueless and are making cock ups that'll jeopardise their defence. Not sure I'd be putting much faith in someone who calls themselves hibsarepants. 😀


When you think about how the seats, the stairs, the view, the measuring tape and the budget for the new stand all ganged up against her, you could forgive her for feeling a little paranoid.

[Sammy7nil]

SPFL Letter from Neil Doncaster, 27th June 2020



Dear all


A number of clubs have asked whether we can provide them with copies of the petition lodged by Heart of Midlothian PLC and Partick Thistle Limited naming The SPFL Limited and the companies owning the three promoted clubs (Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers) plus Stranraer FC Limited, as respondents in the action. Several clubs have also asked us to provide the answers (to the petition) that we lodged in court yesterday.


There is one set of answers for the SPFL and another joint set for the three promoted clubs. We and the three promoted clubs have been advised that there are sufficiently different interests between our respective positions that to lodge consolidated answers is not possible.


Unfortunately, we have also been advised that it would not be appropriate, and arguably unlawful, to make available to non-parties the litigation copies of the pleadings lodged in court. This includes the petition, the two sets of answers and the documents (ie productions), lodged in court by the parties.


We have been advised that such items, when lodged, become the property (or at least under the control) of the court and that parties to a litigation are not permitted, subject to potentially severe sanctions, to circulate copies of such material to non-parties.


If SPFL Member Clubs wish to receive copies of the documents lodged, then it would be necessary for each of them to apply to the court to become a respondent in the action and to lodge its own individual (or potentially joint) answers, or at least to formally associate itself with the existing answers of the three promoted clubs. If any Member is considering doing so, then it should contact Rod McKenzie and he will be pleased to advise on the required procedure and the options available.


It is appropriate to observe that copies of the petition are circulating (although not through any act or omission of the SPFL) reasonably openly on the internet.


There will be a first hearing in the Court of Session, provisionally scheduled for Wednesday 1 July at 11.00am. The principle issue for discussion at that hearing is likely to be whether the petition procedure in court should be sisted (suspended) whilst the issues in dispute are determined by the Scottish FA arbitration.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-and-partick-consult-lawyers-over-misleading-neil-doncaster-letter-2897348%3Famp

[bingo70]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-partick-thistle-astonished-leaked-22264335

Seems to give more of a hearts and Partick twist on things

[grunt]

SPFL Letter from Neil Doncaster, 27th June 2020

The principle issue for discussion at that hearing is likely to be whether the petition procedure in court should be sisted (suspended) whilst the issues in dispute are determined by the Scottish FA arbitration.
Principal spelled wrong. I hope that's not a direct copy from the letter. #Standards

[Sammy7nil]

Principal spelled wrong. I hope that's not a direct copy from the letter. #Standards

I copied from kickback no idea if it is the original

[grunt]

I copied from kickback no idea if it is the original

Wasn't blaming you. [emoji4]

[Wat Dabney]

Principal spelled wrong. I hope that's not a direct copy from the letter. #Standards

Maybe they sent each club a letter with a different spelling mistake. Then when it's leaked, they know who leaked it. :greengrin (probably Hearts)

[grunt]

Maybe they sent each club a letter with a different spelling mistake. Then when it's leaked, they know who leaked it. :greengrin (probably Hearts)

Clever!

[we are hibs]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-partick-thistle-astonished-leaked-22264335

Seems to give more of a hearts and Partick twist on things


Written by a hun who was having a pop at hibs on twitter yesterday.

[bingo70]

Written by a hun who was having a pop at hibs on twitter yesterday.

So it is.

I rarely tweet but even I responded to that as it was such a poor comment from him.

[Spike Mandela]

Neil Doncaster and the board is fully aware that any material distributed to the clubs will be leaked.

Those with agendas like Rangers and ICT amongst others would only be too happy to leak it with their own spin placed upon it.

Knowing this I would be greatly surprised if this letter had any material likely to damage the SPFL’s case. I suspect this is all just a desperate attempt at further victimhood claims for Hearts before any hearings and Rangers media apologists doing their bit to try and blacken the reputation of SPFL.

Legal eagles might see something else in it.

[brog]

Hearts & Patrick believe it's a clear conflict of interest! I guess they don't do irony!

[Andy74]

SPFL Letter from Neil Doncaster, 27th June 2020



Dear all


A number of clubs have asked whether we can provide them with copies of the petition lodged by Heart of Midlothian PLC and Partick Thistle Limited naming The SPFL Limited and the companies owning the three promoted clubs (Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers) plus Stranraer FC Limited, as respondents in the action. Several clubs have also asked us to provide the answers (to the petition) that we lodged in court yesterday.


There is one set of answers for the SPFL and another joint set for the three promoted clubs. We and the three promoted clubs have been advised that there are sufficiently different interests between our respective positions that to lodge consolidated answers is not possible.


Unfortunately, we have also been advised that it would not be appropriate, and arguably unlawful, to make available to non-parties the litigation copies of the pleadings lodged in court. This includes the petition, the two sets of answers and the documents (ie productions), lodged in court by the parties.


We have been advised that such items, when lodged, become the property (or at least under the control) of the court and that parties to a litigation are not permitted, subject to potentially severe sanctions, to circulate copies of such material to non-parties.


If SPFL Member Clubs wish to receive copies of the documents lodged, then it would be necessary for each of them to apply to the court to become a respondent in the action and to lodge its own individual (or potentially joint) answers, or at least to formally associate itself with the existing answers of the three promoted clubs. If any Member is considering doing so, then it should contact Rod McKenzie and he will be pleased to advise on the required procedure and the options available.


It is appropriate to observe that copies of the petition are circulating (although not through any act or omission of the SPFL) reasonably openly on the internet.


There will be a first hearing in the Court of Session, provisionally scheduled for Wednesday 1 July at 11.00am. The principle issue for discussion at that hearing is likely to be whether the petition procedure in court should be sisted (suspended) whilst the issues in dispute are determined by the Scottish FA arbitration.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-and-partick-consult-lawyers-over-misleading-neil-doncaster-letter-2897348%3Famp

Hearts are making a statement about that?

They really should get an adult to read these things first before they react.

[Andy74]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/hearts-partick-thistle-astonished-leaked-22264335

Seems to give more of a hearts and Partick twist on things

What a poor article even by their standards.

Apart from the fact it is a pretty poor understanding of the letter, even if it was right then so what? Of course the body would be asking it’s members to support defending itself from the actions of 2 members.

[matty_f]

What a poor article even by their standards.

Apart from the fact it is a pretty poor understanding of the letter, even if it was right then so what? Of course the body would be asking it’s members to support defending itself from the actions of 2 members.

It's incredible that the article contained a line about Hearts briefing the SPFL are trying to turn 40 clubs against 2. Like 2 clubs going to court against the organisation hasn't already done that.

[Andy74]

It's incredible that the article contained a line about Hearts briefing the SPFL are trying to turn 40 clubs against 2. Like 2 clubs going to court against the organisation hasn't already done that.

Exactly. As it stands 2 clubs have moved against the 40.

[calumhibee1]

Hahaha.

They have an issue with that letter?

Where on earth do they read that and see it as an attempt to drum up support? These clubs have, as the letter advises, approached the SPFL, not the other way around 😂

[bawheid]

I took the Hearts/PT reaction to be a realisation that they’ve ****ed it by leaking their petition to the muppets on kickback. The SPFL letter says this is possibly illegal, which is what Budge will have got her knickers in a twist about.

[lord bunberry]

I took the Hearts/PT reaction to be a realisation that they’ve ****ed it by leaking their petition to the muppets on kickback. The SPFL letter says this is possibly illegal, which is what Budge will have got her knickers in a twist about.
And that my friend will be their downfall, sharing is enshrined in their culture. Normally sharing involves family members and keys in a fruit bowl down in a “luxury” caravan in prestonpans, but nothing can remain a secret over there. Confidential or not, once one of them knows then they all know. Ann Grudge can release as many statements as she wants, but the law doesn’t work on the principle of my sister told me.

[Seveno]

Being born and raised in Edinburgh, I find it hard to understand that 400,000 of my fellow citizens can just be so ... so weird.

[tamig]

And that my friend will be their downfall, sharing is enshrined in their culture. Normally sharing involves family members and keys in a fruit bowl down in a “luxury” caravan in prestonpans, but nothing can remain a secret over there. Confidential or not, once one of them knows then they all know. Ann Grudge can release as many statements as she wants, but the law doesn’t work on the principle of my sister told me.
Lets keep the Pans out of it pal. And its Seton Sands anyway for the caravans.

[jacomo]

Written by a hun who was having a pop at hibs on twitter yesterday.


Hearts and PT’s wee statement is another example of how deluded they are, always trying to blame everyone else for their own actions.

It is not a question of the SPFL trying to turn 40 clubs against 2. By initiating legal proceedings, the 2 did that themselves.

[RyeSloan]

It's incredible that the article contained a line about Hearts briefing the SPFL are trying to turn 40 clubs against 2. Like 2 clubs going to court against the organisation hasn't already done that.

Its a bonkers take on the situation for sure.

And quite how Hearts and Partick can be ‘livid’ is beyond me!

The letter is quite clearly clarifying a point of order and then offering the leagues legal knowledge to clubs wishing to navigate said point of order.

To suggest this is tub thumping to drum up support is bizarre. And then to release a statement like Hearts did is even stranger...they really have lost it completely and I cannot wait for the reaction when their spurious claims get booted out of court!

[FilipinoHibs]

SPFL Letter from Neil Doncaster, 27th June 2020



Dear all


A number of clubs have asked whether we can provide them with copies of the petition lodged by Heart of Midlothian PLC and Partick Thistle Limited naming The SPFL Limited and the companies owning the three promoted clubs (Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers) plus Stranraer FC Limited, as respondents in the action. Several clubs have also asked us to provide the answers (to the petition) that we lodged in court yesterday.


There is one set of answers for the SPFL and another joint set for the three promoted clubs. We and the three promoted clubs have been advised that there are sufficiently different interests between our respective positions that to lodge consolidated answers is not possible.


Unfortunately, we have also been advised that it would not be appropriate, and arguably unlawful, to make available to non-parties the litigation copies of the pleadings lodged in court. This includes the petition, the two sets of answers and the documents (ie productions), lodged in court by the parties.


We have been advised that such items, when lodged, become the property (or at least under the control) of the court and that parties to a litigation are not permitted, subject to potentially severe sanctions, to circulate copies of such material to non-parties.


If SPFL Member Clubs wish to receive copies of the documents lodged, then it would be necessary for each of them to apply to the court to become a respondent in the action and to lodge its own individual (or potentially joint) answers, or at least to formally associate itself with the existing answers of the three promoted clubs. If any Member is considering doing so, then it should contact Rod McKenzie and he will be pleased to advise on the required procedure and the options available.


It is appropriate to observe that copies of the petition are circulating (although not through any act or omission of the SPFL) reasonably openly on the internet.


There will be a first hearing in the Court of Session, provisionally scheduled for Wednesday 1 July at 11.00am. The principle issue for discussion at that hearing is likely to be whether the petition procedure in court should be sisted (suspended) whilst the issues in dispute are determined by the Scottish FA arbitration.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-and-partick-consult-lawyers-over-misleading-neil-doncaster-letter-2897348%3Famp

It looks as if Hearts have had poor legal or no legal advice on who they can disclose their petition to. Another screw up by Budge. Looks to as if the SPFL are asking for a suspenson of the proceedings to allow the Hearts/PT complaint to go through the correct footballing bodies. ND playing the long game beautifully. Hearts looking more foolish by the day.

[CraigHibee]

Its not going to end well for puddle drinking poppy thieves, "pleasing" 🤣

[Caversham Green]

SPFL Letter from Neil Doncaster, 27th June 2020



Dear all


A number of clubs have asked whether we can provide them with copies of the petition lodged by Heart of Midlothian PLC and Partick Thistle Limited naming The SPFL Limited and the companies owning the three promoted clubs (Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers) plus Stranraer FC Limited, as respondents in the action. Several clubs have also asked us to provide the answers (to the petition) that we lodged in court yesterday.


There is one set of answers for the SPFL and another joint set for the three promoted clubs. We and the three promoted clubs have been advised that there are sufficiently different interests between our respective positions that to lodge consolidated answers is not possible.


Unfortunately, we have also been advised that it would not be appropriate, and arguably unlawful, to make available to non-parties the litigation copies of the pleadings lodged in court. This includes the petition, the two sets of answers and the documents (ie productions), lodged in court by the parties.


We have been advised that such items, when lodged, become the property (or at least under the control) of the court and that parties to a litigation are not permitted, subject to potentially severe sanctions, to circulate copies of such material to non-parties.


If SPFL Member Clubs wish to receive copies of the documents lodged, then it would be necessary for each of them to apply to the court to become a respondent in the action and to lodge its own individual (or potentially joint) answers, or at least to formally associate itself with the existing answers of the three promoted clubs. If any Member is considering doing so, then it should contact Rod McKenzie and he will be pleased to advise on the required procedure and the options available.


It is appropriate to observe that copies of the petition are circulating (although not through any act or omission of the SPFL) reasonably openly on the internet.


There will be a first hearing in the Court of Session, provisionally scheduled for Wednesday 1 July at 11.00am. The principle issue for discussion at that hearing is likely to be whether the petition procedure in court should be sisted (suspended) whilst the issues in dispute are determined by the Scottish FA arbitration.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-and-partick-consult-lawyers-over-misleading-neil-doncaster-letter-2897348%3Famp

Well that's a lot blander than I expected. I don't see what's wrong or misleading about it - maybe some legal procedure? - and certainly nothing for HoMFC to rush out a statement for. As for 'drumming up support' HoMFC and PT are trying to take a substantial amount of money from every single one of the 40 clubs, of course they would want to know how the SPFL board are dealing with the attempted robbery and they have every right to protect their interests. ND would be negligent if he didn't give them that opportunity.

I doubt if adding clubs to the list of respondents is going to change the proceedings much as they are unlikely to have much to add to the answers already submitted. This just seems like another overreaction from the two clubs who obviously knew that the letter was going to be leaked before the event.

[bigwheel]

Well that's a lot blander than I expected. I don't see what's wrong or misleading about it - maybe some legal procedure? - and certainly nothing for HoMFC to rush out a statement for. As for 'drumming up support' HoMFC and PT are trying to take a substantial amount of money from every single one of the 40 clubs, of course they would want to know how the SPFL board are dealing with the attempted robbery and they have every right to protect their interests. ND would be negligent if he didn't give them that opportunity.

I doubt if adding clubs to the list of respondents is going to change the proceedings much as they are unlikely to have much to add to the answers already submitted. This just seems like another overreaction from the two clubs who obviously knew that the letter was going to be leaked before the event.

I suspect it’s part of the spfl legal strategy . Implying that Hearts were wrong (illegal) in their actions of sharing their petition publicly..suggests the spfl will use it against them at the hearing . Hearts realise that and will no doubt bite back. Judge will take a view on who is right ...

[Caversham Green]

I suspect it’s part of the spfl legal strategy . Implying that Hearts were wrong (illegal) in their actions of sharing their petition publicly..suggests the spfl will use it against them at the hearing . Hearts realise that and will no doubt bite back. Judge will take a view on who is right ...

The letter carefully avoids implying that HoMFC shared the petition though. That sentence is simply a response to the clubs who have asked to see it. It doesn't strike me as much of an issue anyway, certainly not enough to rush out that rather odd statement. I thought these petitions were in the public domain as a matter of course in any case.

Incidentally I took copy of the petition when it was leaked on a website used by people connected with HoMFC but I won't be posting it on here in case I'm wrong about the public domain thing.

[malcolm]

Could it be an issue with a principle?

Yep I took it to be the author referring to the principle to be discussed (what place should deal first) rather than the main important point of discussion at that session. For me that point could have been more eloquently and clearly put :greengrin. But it seems overall, as it’s already been described, kind of bland and not controversial.

[Skol]

The letter carefully avoids implying that HoMFC shared the petition though. That sentence is simply a response to the clubs who have asked to see it. It doesn't strike me as much of an issue anyway, certainly not enough to rush out that rather odd statement. I thought these petitions were in the public domain as a matter of course in any case.

Incidentally I took copy of the petition when it was leaked on a website used by people connected with HoMFC but I won't be posting it on here in case I'm wrong about the public domain thing.

It does seem like much ado about nothing. I see nothing wrong or controversial about the letter at all.

A quick read of jkb though and they have an entirely different view. Only time will tell who is right

[KeithTheHibby]

It’s a bizarre response from Hearts considering the letter from the SPFL doesn’t appear to have anything controversial in it.

[Ozyhibby]

It’s a bizarre response from Hearts considering the letter from the SPFL doesn’t appear to have anything controversial in it.

The whole summer has been a bizarre response from Hearts.


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[LancsHibs]

Hearts as a club have completely lost it and are irrevocably broken:brokenyam:

[Aldo]

It’s a bizarre response from Hearts considering the letter from the SPFL doesn’t appear to have anything controversial in it.

If that is indeed the letter then it looks like more desperation from Budge with her statement. Looks like she trying to make something of it when it’s clearly not.


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[theonlywayisup]

I took the Hearts/PT reaction to be a realisation that they’ve ****ed it by leaking their petition to the muppets on kickback. The SPFL letter says this is possibly illegal, which is what Budge will have got her knickers in a twist about.

In football parlance, that's a bit of an own goal, is it not :faf:

Bet the poster who did it is popular! That said, did someone not do the same on Hibs.net. Apologies, I've not really been keeping up.

[Aldo]

Hearts as a club have completely lost it and are irrevocably broken:brokenyam:

Hopefully they will lose it even more when and if the SFA take appropriate action against them following court proceedings!


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[green day]

If that is indeed the letter then it looks like more desperation from Budge with her statement. Looks like she trying to make something of it when it’s clearly not.


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I think she and Jackie Low are seeing areas in the letter which "imply" that someone may have leaked info.........and the letter states that it wasnt the SPFL so in her mind a finger is pointed at them.

Its all a bit dry and legal, perhaps why we didnt get an "explosive leak" from another club - i.e. its a nothing letter really.

However its obvious that Budge is in a bit of a rage and sees conspiracies and threats everywhere - thats not the cool headed approach that is needed heading into court - as evidenced by them releasing this silly wee statement before talking to their legal advisers.

I am fairly sure the lawyers and QC will just shrug their shoulders and crack on with it on Monday.

[bingo70]

So, after trying to make sense of it again, not having been on the beers beforehand though.....

Am I right in saying there’s a chance that this could get thrown out of court as the papers hearts lodged were leaked to the public and that’s not allowed? The letter from the SPFL was a cute way of notifying all clubs of that, and that’s what Budges complaint is about?

[Bostonhibby]

In football parlance, that's a bit of an own goal, is it not :faf:

Bet the poster who did it is popular! That said, did someone not do the same on Hibs.net. Apologies, I've not really been keeping up.There's a bit of a crisis meeting going on over this, a zoomer meeting of a conveyancing expert, Saughton Jambo, mrs doctor Budge,Lord George Foulkes, the omnipresent Craig Levein and the entire Sportsound team.

When Lord Clark questions the source of the unauthorised disclosure they've decided to blame it all on Duncan Murray or Partick Thistle.

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[Aldo]

I think she and Jackie Low are seeing areas in the letter which "imply" that someone may have leaked info.........and the letter states that it wasnt the SPFL so in her mind a finger is pointed at them.

Its all a bit dry and legal, perhaps why we didnt get an "explosive leak" from another club - i.e. its a nothing letter really.

However its obvious that Budge is in a bit of a rage and sees conspiracies and threats everywhere - thats not the cool headed approach that is needed heading into court - as evidenced by them releasing this silly wee statement before talking to their legal advisers.

I am fairly sure the lawyers and QC will just shrug their shoulders and crack on with it on Monday.

The saying ‘folk in glass houses’ comes to mind with Budge and co. The amount of statements/comments and desperation led by her prior to votes/meetings etc was nuts.

Now the SPFL have informed its members that they will not be able to view or get a copy unless they become part of it. Plain and simple.

Budge will really need to get her own house in order because that’s where it’s been leaked before she goes on about others!


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[macca70]

Not really followed this too much so What are the possible outcomes?

Hearts and Partick win and paid the requested compensation?

Court rules that the vote to end the season needs to be retaken due to hearts claims that it was underhand and not conducted all above board? Wouldn’t surprise me if this was the most likely outcome.

Court rules that for the league to be completed we must have played 38 games therefore season needs to finish?

Court rules that there has been no wrong doing and everything stands with no compensation?

[greenginger]

Not really followed this too much so What are the possible outcomes?

Hearts and Partick win and paid the requested compensation?

Court rules that the vote to end the season needs to be retaken due to hearts claims that it was underhand and not conducted all above board? Wouldn’t surprise me if this was the most likely outcome.

Court rules that for the league to be completed we must have played 38 games therefore season needs to finish?

Court rules that there has been no wrong doing and everything stands with no compensation?

Court rules it’s a job for the SFA as per rules football club sign up to when they join a league.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Maybe they sent each club a letter with a different spelling mistake. Then when it's leaked, they know who leaked it. :greengrin (probably Hearts)

That is not beyond the realms of possibility as it is a known practise i political circles and the civil service to combat leaks

[JimBHibees]

Court rules it’s a job for the SFA as per rules football club sign up to when they join a league.

Hopefully that is the outcome.

[Eyrie]

Not really followed this too much so What are the possible outcomes?

Hearts and Partick win and paid the requested compensation?

Court rules that the vote to end the season needs to be retaken due to hearts claims that it was underhand and not conducted all above board? Wouldn’t surprise me if this was the most likely outcome.

Court rules that for the league to be completed we must have played 38 games therefore season needs to finish?

Court rules that there has been no wrong doing and everything stands with no compensation?

1 - Unlikely that they'd win but even if they did, the demanded £10m will be heavily reduced by the impact of coronavirus.
2 - Any vote would have the same outcome.
3 - Only if that was a requirement of the SPFL rules, but these permit the season to be called early.
4 - Would also mean that Hearts and Partick would need to pay the legal fees for the SPFL, Dundee United, Raith Rovers, Cove Rangers and Stranraer.

#4 is most likely, #2 is possible and #1 a very long shot.

[AltheHibby]

That is not beyond the realms of possibility as it is a known practise i political circles and the civil service to combat leaks

And going off on a tangent, Ordnance Survey do the same with their maps to catch people who breach copyright.

Back on subject, it's an extremely stupid move to make that statement before getting your lawyer's agreement. Its like they want an excuse to back down and this statement is designed to give them it. Or maybe they are just stupid.

[Future17]

So, after trying to make sense of it again, not having been on the beers beforehand though.....

Am I right in saying there’s a chance that this could get thrown out of court as the papers hearts lodged were leaked to the public and that’s not allowed? The letter from the SPFL was a cute way of notifying all clubs of that, and that’s what Budges complaint is about?

There's practically zero chance of that happening. The Court would have to be certain of the source of any leak and even then, it would be unheard of (in my experience) to dismiss the action on that basis.

[CapitalGreen]

The talk of £8m compensation is nonsense. Promotion and Relegation was scrapped in the Netherlands and teams agreed compensation to avoid court. The sums received were:

SC Cambuur - €425,000 for being denied promotion
De Graafschap - €375,000 for being denied promotion

The Dutch league has higher TV revenue than the SPFL and larger prize money for teams so it’s likely to the Dutch teams will be missing out on more money than Hearts would.

[Andy74]

Not really followed this too much so What are the possible outcomes?

Hearts and Partick win and paid the requested compensation?

Court rules that the vote to end the season needs to be retaken due to hearts claims that it was underhand and not conducted all above board? Wouldn’t surprise me if this was the most likely outcome.

Court rules that for the league to be completed we must have played 38 games therefore season needs to finish?

Court rules that there has been no wrong doing and everything stands with no compensation?

Hearts are asking only for relegations and promotions to be cancelled, or otherwise for them to be compensated.

Those are the only possible outcomes other than them losing and not getting any of those things.

There is, however, the question of whether the court will even hear it as they may refer it to the SFA under the rules of the SPFL.

[FilipinoHibs]

And going off on a tangent, Ordnance Survey do the same with their maps to catch people who breach copyright.

Back on subject, it's an extremely stupid move to make that statement before getting your lawyer's agreement. Its like they want an excuse to back down and this statement is designed to give them it. Or maybe they are just stupid.

The latter - just stupid.

[where'stheslope]

The talk of £8m compensation is nonsense. Promotion and Relegation was scrapped in the Netherlands and teams agreed compensation to avoid court. The sums received were:

SC Cambuur - €425,000 for being denied promotion
De Graafschap - €375,000 for being denied promotion

The Dutch league has higher TV revenue than the SPFL and larger prize money for teams so it’s likely to the Dutch teams will be missing out on more money than Hearts would.
The awards were for not getting promotion to the top league, not relegation!
Much as I think its all a smokescreen whats going on, I think the fact it was settled out of court has to be noted!
Papers this morning saying about SPFL letters not being sent to clubs about the case, but letters about the case from Hertz and Partick were sent to all the clubs?
Still an awful lot to come out in this case, maybe find out more next week?

[Caversham Green]

Here's a new post from Saughton Jambo:


Thoughts from a wee friend and legal eagle:-

Thank you for this. I can understand why Hearts and Partick could be unhappy at this letter. It is untrue. The 3 other clubs were not named in the petition as respondents and for SPFL to state that they were is both totally inappropriate and grossly misleading. Are they trying to stir up resentment?
The complex legal issues which could unfold make it vital the case remains with the court of Session who have powers and remedies that are not available to the SFA. I also have considerable concerns around the conflict of interest if adjudication is conducted by the SFA.


He says the 3 other clubs weren't named in the petition and he'd be right if he wasn't wrong. As I said above I've retained a copy of the petition and can confirm Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers are all named as respondents along with Stranraer.

Would you trust that man to sell you house?

[CapitalGreen]

The awards were for not getting promotion to the top league, not relegation!
Much as I think its all a smokescreen whats going on, I think the fact it was settled out of court has to be noted!
Papers this morning saying about SPFL letters not being sent to clubs about the case, but letters about the case from Hertz and Partick were sent to all the clubs?
Still an awful lot to come out in this case, maybe find out more next week?

I know - I have literally written it is for being denied promotion twice in my post. The outcome is the same as relegation though, the clubs seeking compensation believe they are being denied their rightful place in the top division and want compensation for the income they are going to miss out on as a result.

[Seveno]

Budge to legal advisers: What about that letter?
Legal adviser to Budge: What about it, Ann? (invoice for £500 enclosed)
Budge to legal adviser: Surely Doncaster has broken the law or something?
Legal adviser to Budge: No, Ann. Go back to your knitting. (invoice for £500 enclosed)
Budge to legal adviser: But Leslie told me it did.
Legal adviser to Budge: The man is a plonker, Ann. (Invoice for £500 enclosed)
Budge to legal adviser .................

[007]

That is not beyond the realms of possibility as it is a known practise i political circles and the civil service to combat leaks

Plus Hearts and Partick have said they want Wednesday's proceedings to be broadcast publicly which reinforces the belief they leaked the documents.

Jambos are claiming the petition is something which is publicly available however I can't find anywhere it can be obtained officially. Are court documents like it available before a case has concluded?

[CapitalGreen]

Here's a new post from Saughton Jambo:



He says the 3 other clubs weren't named in the petition and he'd be right if he wasn't wrong. As I said above I've retained a copy of the petition and can confirm Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers are all named as respondents along with Stranraer.

Would you trust that man to sell you house?

Shows how little folk on KB actually know about the case and just rely on Saughton Jambo for their info that nobody has flagged iup that what Deans says as incorrect. They m’ve all had access to the petition so anyone of them could show that was he says regarding the promoted clubs not being respondents is incorrect.

[Andy74]

Here's a new post from Saughton Jambo:



He says the 3 other clubs weren't named in the petition and he'd be right if he wasn't wrong. As I said above I've retained a copy of the petition and can confirm Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers are all named as respondents along with Stranraer.

Would you trust that man to sell you house?

They’ve been lying to themselves so long over this stuff they are way beyond being able to look sensibly at everything.

You’d think this was some sort of case of the century with a massive conspiracy behind it all rather than a couple of desperate clubs trying to argue procedural points that they’ve got pretty wrong.

The reaction to a pretty nondescript letter shows both their desperation but also their lack of basic understanding about what they have got themselves into.

[007]

Here's a new post from Saughton Jambo:


Originally Posted by :
Thoughts from a wee friend and legal eagle:-

Thank you for this. I can understand why Hearts and Partick could be unhappy at this letter. It is untrue. The 3 other clubs were not named in the petition as respondents and for SPFL to state that they were is both totally inappropriate and grossly misleading. Are they trying to stir up resentment?
The complex legal issues which could unfold make it vital the case remains with the court of Session who have powers and remedies that are not available to the SFA. I also have considerable concerns around the conflict of interest if adjudication is conducted by the SFA.


He says the 3 other clubs weren't named in the petition and he'd be right if he wasn't wrong. As I said above I've retained a copy of the petition and can confirm Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers are all named as respondents along with Stranraer.

Would you trust that man to sell you house?

Looks like he's got it wrong...again and Budge has taken his word for it...again and we know she doesn't do reading formal documents. 😂😂😂

The Company
2. That the Company is a private company limited by shares. The issued share capital of the Company is £42 consisting of 42 ordinary shares of £1, which have all been issued and are fully paid. The Company exists to govern the 42 association football clubs (the “Clubs”) which make up, or are owned and operated by, its 42 members (the “Members”). The respondents are (i) the Company; and (ii) the four other 4 Members liable to be affected by the orders sought, namely Dundee United FC, Raith Rovers FC, Stranraer FC and Cove Rangers FC.

[Irish_Steve]

In football parlance, that's a bit of an own goal, is it not :faf:

Bet the poster who did it is popular! That said, did someone not do the same on Hibs.net. Apologies, I've not really been keeping up.

Er, that would have been me and then I thought it may be wiser to delete the post containing the Petition but not before some of our quicker colleagues had read it and possibly downloaded it.

Brokeback are saying that because the Petition was posted on the walls of the Court (not quite sure what that means) that it was in the public domain. I'm not entirely sure if that's correct either. I also think they said it came from a Rangers fan on Twitter.

I do think it's interesting that ND points out that the Petition is freely available on the internet. I'll happily go to court saying David McCaig posted the petition on JKB - I think I still have the screenshot of it!

[Jack]

To normal people there's nothing wrong with sending a letter like that or its contents. All perfectly reasonable.

However if you're levels of paranoia are already through the roof ...

[hibeerealist]

Er, that would have been me and then I thought it may be wiser to delete the post containing the Petition but not before some of our quicker colleagues had read it and possibly downloaded it.

Brokeback are saying that because the Petition was posted on the walls of the Court (not quite sure what that means) that it was in the public domain. I'm not entirely sure if that's correct either. I also think they said it came from a Rangers fan on Twitter.

I do think it's interesting that ND points out that the Petition is freely available on the internet. I'll happily go to court saying David McCaig posted the petition on JKB - I think I still have the screenshot of it!

I will happily second that Steve. the poster you named was the one that posted it on Keekback!! He took it down very soon thereafter however I fear that unfortunately, the damage was already done.

[bingo70]

I will happily second that Steve. the poster you named was the one that posted it on Keekback!! He took it down very soon thereafter however I fear that unfortunately, the damage was already done.

If the poster above who says there’s no possibility of the case being thrown out because of this what are the possible consequences of someone leaking this document?

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Court rules it’s a job for the SFA as per rules football club sign up to when they join a league.

That would be my guess too.

[Andy74]

If the poster above who says there’s no possibility of the case being thrown out because of this what are the possible consequences of someone leaking this document?

Nothing really. Contempt I’d suspect if anyone was that bothered about it. Nothing that would impact the merits of the case.

[bingo70]

Nothing really. Contempt I’d suspect if anyone was that bothered about it. Nothing that would impact the merits of the case.

That’s a shame.

I usually like your posts on this subject as well 😂

[Billy Whizz]

That’s a shame.

I usually like your posts on this subject as well 😂

Me too. Andy74 what’s your experience in these sort of things, you seem quite sure with your statements

[calumhibee1]

They’ve been lying to themselves so long over this stuff they are way beyond being able to look sensibly at everything.

You’d think this was some sort of case of the century with a massive conspiracy behind it all rather than a couple of desperate clubs trying to argue procedural points that they’ve got pretty wrong.

The reaction to a pretty nondescript letter shows both their desperation but also their lack of basic understanding about what they have got themselves into.

:agree:

And because of their lack of understanding and awareness I fully expect they’ll never back down. Honestly think there’s a good chance of expulsion.

[Springbank]

:agree:

And because of their lack of understanding and awareness I fully expect they’ll never back down. Honestly think there’s a good chance of expulsion.

Their unnecessary statement yesterday suggests you are maybe right

Leadership from hearts board would be to take their medicine, accept the spfl acted within the rules, they have a chance to reboot as a Championship club for a year or two, and to bring their fans along.

Instead, Dean's & Budge have whipped their more excitable elements into a frenzy, theyve let a genie out a bottle, and almost every conceivable outcome is now a defeat (as far as the optics go)

Yesterday's statement looks like tynecastle is in flames & all hearts have is more fuel, when it's the fire extinguisher they really need, in this situation.

[Jim44]

Out of curiosity, what is the relationship, beyond unhealthy interest and involvement with HOMFC affairs, of Leslie Deans, estate agent, and Gary Deans of Falkirk FC. Are they father and son or related in any way?

[matty_f]

Here's a new post from Saughton Jambo:



He says the 3 other clubs weren't named in the petition and he'd be right if he wasn't wrong. As I said above I've retained a copy of the petition and can confirm Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers are all named as respondents along with Stranraer.

Would you trust that man to sell you house?

Has anyone called him out for being wrong yet?

[Stanton Spence]

Has anyone called him out for being wrong yet?I think Gordon ramsay did matty [emoji1] but it's just been blissfully ignored

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[matty_f]

I think Gordon ramsay did matty [emoji1] but it's just been blissfully ignored

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Hearts seem to be avoiding facts as much as they're avoiding the top flight these days.

[Skol]

It is weird when you read the two posters who state they are wrong. This is ignored or just dismissed as being wrong. Even when it’s copied and pasted from the leaked document. Corruption I tell you.

[RoYO!]

I wonder if Budge secretly wants this to fail at the first hurdle..

That way she appeases the baying masses by taking it to court, but she avoids the costs of a lengthy legal battle.

She can say that's shes done all she can and then use it to galvanize the support in a them vs us manner.

If only the season had been finished after all games played- theyd be at falling STs and FoH contributions- I'd say they are pretty lucky!

[Seveno]

I wonder if Budge secretly wants this to fail at the first hurdle..

That way she appeases the baying masses by taking it to court, but she avoids the costs of a lengthy legal battle.

She can say that's shes done all she can and then use it to galvanize the support in a them vs us manner.

If only the season had been finished after all games played- theyd be at falling STs and FoH contributions- I'd say they are pretty lucky!

She is not capable of thinking that far ahead. She can’t even order seats on time.

[grunt]

I think Gordon ramsay did matty [emoji1] but it's just been blissfully ignored "Gordon Ramsay" on Deans, "You'd be as well asking your postman for his legal opinion". :greengrin

[Tug Wilson]

The full petition is not posted on the walls of the court. The bare facts of the case are i.e. the Petitioners and the Respondents. No details of the claims are posted.

You have to be one of the parties involved in the case or acting for them to access to process held in the court. The process includes the Petition and the Answers and is not something that the general public can access.

Currently, the courts are carrying out hearings through Zoom so I am not quite sure how Hearts expect this to be done in the public domain.

[Aldo]

Was having a look and I wonder what Budge would make of her statement to the media if asked in court.

Herald article dated 10th April...

HEARTS owner Ann Budge insists the Tynecastle club are willing to accept relegation from the Premiership if ‘that is what the community of football clubs believe is right’.

So she gone from acceptance to the oppressed minority??


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[007]

The full petition is not posted on the walls of the court. The bare facts of the case are i.e. the Petitioners and the Respondents. No details of the claims are posted.

You have to be one of the parties involved in the case or acting for them to access to process held in the court. The process includes the Petition and the Answers and is not something that the general public can access.

Currently, the courts are carrying out hearings through Zoom so I am not quite sure how Hearts expect this to be done in the public domain.

That's what I thought, just the headline details are posted on the walls of the court not the full document.

Re the Zoom being made public, Budge could Periscope it. 😀

[McD]

Here's a new post from Saughton Jambo:



He says the 3 other clubs weren't named in the petition and he'd be right if he wasn't wrong. As I said above I've retained a copy of the petition and can confirm Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers are all named as respondents along with Stranraer.

Would you trust that man to sell you house?


there’s also the small matter (ignored by them) that the three clubs all put out a joint statement that’s they had been named in the petition and were seeking legal advice to defend themselves

[Stanton Spence]

"Gordon Ramsay" on Deans, "You'd be as well asking your postman for his legal opinion". :greengrinOff the scale delusion over on their site mate. I was quite happy with just seeing them get relegated this season but not now and I hope they get hammered by the SPFL / SFA once its all done with. They really are a horrible lot wanting to see any club who voted against recon go bust etc is just the ultimate in pure s**t hoosery. Totally forgetting if it wasn't for these benefactors dough they would be the favourites out of the 42 clubs to go oot the box

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[Billy Whizz]

Off the scale delusion over on their site mate. I was quite happy with just seeing them get relegated this season but not now and I hope they get hammered by the SPFL / SFA once its all done with. They really are a horrible lot wanting to see any club who voted against recon go bust etc is just the ultimate in pure s**t hoosery. Totally forgetting if it wasn't for these benefactors dough they would be the favourites out of the 42 clubs to go oot the box

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Do you mean like a points penalty😀

[Kojock]

Do you mean like a points penalty😀

Nah something better like they are in the championship and the SPFL decide there is no promotion or relegation next season. Now that would make me laugh.

[Stanton Spence]

Do you mean like a points penalty[emoji3]In league Two of course Billy [emoji23]


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[Irish_Steve]

Has anyone called him out for being wrong yet?

Even after "Gordon Ramsay (GR)" has posted a copy of the Petition showing that Saughton Dildo (SD) was wrong, other posters said the GR had read SD`s post incorrectly. GR even had the proof and they still didnt believe him - what level of deluded is that!

[Carheenlea]

As unlikely as expulsion will be other than a threat, if the ultimate happened and they did, what would happen to Hearts? Would they effectively be closed down or would they have to apply to join east of Scotland league or somewhere and work back up, or do they get back in to SPFL after serving an expulsion?

[hibeerealist]

As unlikely as expulsion will be other than a threat, if the ultimate happened and they did, what would happen to Hearts? Would they effectively be closed down or would they have to apply to join east of Scotland league or somewhere and work back up, or do they get back in to SPFL after serving an expulsion?

Doubt they will be expelled but a serious points penalty and or transfer ban could present real problems for them and could result in at least two seasons in the lower leagues with Alloa and Arbroath.

[JimBHibees]

Their unnecessary statement yesterday suggests you are maybe right

Leadership from hearts board would be to take their medicine, accept the spfl acted within the rules, they have a chance to reboot as a Championship club for a year or two, and to bring their fans along.

Instead, Dean's & Budge have whipped their more excitable elements into a frenzy, theyve let a genie out a bottle, and almost every conceivable outcome is now a defeat (as far as the optics go)

Yesterday's statement looks like tynecastle is in flames & all hearts have is more fuel, when it's the fire extinguisher they really need, in this situation.

Agree any sort of normal leadership would have been releasing a statement that they didn't agree with the relegation however for the good of the game they are deciding not to take legal action. Would have been accepted in the main by normal Hearts fans imo

[007]

Nah something better like they are in the championship and the SPFL decide there is no promotion or relegation next season. Now that would make me laugh.

That would be a way to punish and because it was an indirect punishment it would anger them even more. We'd have similar entertainment with a court case next close season which they'd lose as UEFA have said it is okay.

[jacomo]

Even after "Gordon Ramsay (GR)" has posted a copy of the Petition showing that Saughton Dildo (SD) was wrong, other posters said the GR had read SD`s post incorrectly. GR even had the proof and they still didnt believe him - what level of deluded is that!


There’s no arguing with these people.

We are in an era where people choose their own facts to suit their opinion, rather than forming their opinion based on the available facts.

[Kaiser1962]

Court rules it’s a job for the SFA as per rules football club sign up to when they join a league.

Would appear to be the correct answer, otherwise where does the game go?

Do Hamilton have a case for the dubious sending off that allowed Hearts back into the game at 2-0 down? Is there a case for the court for the VAR decision in the Villa game, especially if Villa survive by a solitary point?

And on and on.....

[proud_and_green]

There’s no arguing with these people.

We are in an era where people choose their own facts to suit their opinion, rather than forming their opinion based on the available facts.

That is absolutely bang on. I sometimes wonder if people have lost the power of reason or ability to question and analyse. Perhaps it has always been this way; it's just just the internet has made more information available to more people who don't have the ability to process it or discern what is reasonable and what is not - and with the internet they now have the ability to comment widely.

[Kojock]

Would appear to be the correct answer, otherwise where does the game go?

Do Hamilton have a case for the dubious sending off that allowed Hearts back into the game at 2-0 down? Is there a case for the court for the VAR decision in the Villa game, especially if Villa survive by a solitary point?

And on and on.....

If this fails I think Budge will go back to court in an attempt to get the St.Mirren result overturned as there was a hint of handball by Obika in the lead up to the goal. 😂

[Juniper Greens]

If this fails I think Budge will go back to court in an attempt to get the St.Mirren result overturned as there was a hint of handball by Obika in the lead up to the goal. 😂

Fine. Let's give them a point and deduct two from SM...oh wait... 🤣

[Caversham Green]

Would appear to be the correct answer, otherwise where does the game go?

Do Hamilton have a case for the dubious sending off that allowed Hearts back into the game at 2-0 down? Is there a case for the court for the VAR decision in the Villa game, especially if Villa survive by a solitary point?

And on and on.....

Losing a cup tie means you can't play in the next round - that's a serious restriction of trade.

[Bostonhibby]

If this fails I think Budge will go back to court in an attempt to get the St.Mirren result overturned as there was a hint of handball by Obika in the lead up to the goal. [emoji23]It's an interesting option but I can see her going for the "we spent millions specifically to avoid relegation" argument again.

Indignant bullying and shouty false incredulity at the miserable failure of this strategy seems to be the only show in town.

This "style" is probably why most aspects of the season at Tynecastle imploded.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[poolman]

Has anyone called him out for being wrong yet?

You would think that all thon drivel he posted on Yakbak about reconstruction he'd take a back seat but apparently not

What a 🤡

[matty_f]

You would think that all thon drivel he posted on Yakbak about reconstruction he'd take a back seat but apparently not

What a 🤡

Things like that are amazing, no matter how much is wrong they still seem to hang o every word, apparently.

[Stanton Spence]

Things like that are amazing, no matter how much is wrong they still seem to hang o every word, apparently.SJ has just put another post up on the request of Deans, I don't know how to put it on here but it's another apology saying he didn't read the petition thoroughly [emoji23] he should maybe think about getting his facts in order before he tries to accuse folk of trying to create mischief?? Oh the irony
I'm sure someone will put it on here. @irish Steve where are you mate?

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[Peevemor]

Perhaps you could post my following comments.*
I understand there has been some adverse comment regarding my piece of earlier today.*
The information I was given , from a normally reliable source, stated that our petition named SPFL as respondents with intimation to four other clubs. DU , RR, CR and Stranraer. *I now accept that information was erroneous. Had I known that at the time, my comments of earlier today would have differed. I accept that I could have examined the petition in detail myself and apologise to anyone feeling misled by my comments. I can assure you that this was not my intention. * Perhaps age is catching up with me.!*

Whilst no one can categorically state the outcome of litigation,
I stand by my earlier comments on this aspect.*
I remain deeply concerned by the potential conflict of interest if the case is referred to the SFA. Additionally they will simply*not have the expertise to deal with complex legal*issues nor the ability to grant interdict. * The mark of any civilised society is free access to justice and there is no better forum than Scotland's supreme civil court.*
Leslie Deans

[MrSmith]

Y’know, if AB had any emotional intel, she’d have released a very simple statement enabling Hearts to take a higher ground.

eg

”given the severe circumstance affecting Scottish football at present, we as a member of the SPFL, agree the the correct decision has been made in regards to ending the season.” “ we are disappointed to be relegated under such circumstance however, we will return to the top league a much stronger and focused team.”

I really don’t get her continued childishness ����

[Sammy7nil]

There’s no arguing with these people.

We are in an era where people choose their own facts to suit their opinion, rather than forming their opinion based on the available facts.

Correct no one looks at both sides of the argument they just search for things that back their point of view.

[bingo70]

Perhaps you could post my following comments.*
I understand there has been some adverse comment regarding my piece of earlier today.*
The information I was given , from a normally reliable source, stated that our petition named SPFL as respondents with intimation to four other clubs. DU , RR, CR and Stranraer. *I now accept that information was erroneous. Had I known that at the time, my comments of earlier today would have differed. I accept that I could have examined the petition in detail myself and apologise to anyone feeling misled by my comments. I can assure you that this was not my intention. * Perhaps age is catching up with me.!*

Whilst no one can categorically state the outcome of litigation,
I stand by my earlier comments on this aspect.*
I remain deeply concerned by the potential conflict of interest if the case is referred to the SFA. Additionally they will simply*not have the expertise to deal with complex legal*issues nor the ability to grant interdict. * The mark of any civilised society is free access to justice and there is no better forum than Scotland's supreme civil court.*
Leslie Deans

Why doesn’t he just join kickback himself?

[Jim44]

Deans:

Perhaps age is catching up with me.!

[Andy74]

Perhaps you could post my following comments.*
I understand there has been some adverse comment regarding my piece of earlier today.*
The information I was given , from a normally reliable source, stated that our petition named SPFL as respondents with intimation to four other clubs. DU , RR, CR and Stranraer. *I now accept that information was erroneous. Had I known that at the time, my comments of earlier today would have differed. I accept that I could have examined the petition in detail myself and apologise to anyone feeling misled by my comments. I can assure you that this was not my intention. * Perhaps age is catching up with me.!*

Whilst no one can categorically state the outcome of litigation,
I stand by my earlier comments on this aspect.*
I remain deeply concerned by the potential conflict of interest if the case is referred to the SFA. Additionally they will simply*not have the expertise to deal with complex legal*issues nor the ability to grant interdict. * The mark of any civilised society is free access to justice and there is no better forum than Scotland's supreme civil court.*
Leslie Deans

He’s an idiot.

[04Sauzee]

Perhaps you could post my following comments.*
I understand there has been some adverse comment regarding my piece of earlier today.*
The information I was given , from a normally reliable source, stated that our petition named SPFL as respondents with intimation to four other clubs. DU , RR, CR and Stranraer. *I now accept that information was erroneous. Had I known that at the time, my comments of earlier today would have differed. I accept that I could have examined the petition in detail myself and apologise to anyone feeling misled by my comments. I can assure you that this was not my intention. * Perhaps age is catching up with me.!*

Whilst no one can categorically state the outcome of litigation,
I stand by my earlier comments on this aspect.*
I remain deeply concerned by the potential conflict of interest if the case is referred to the SFA. Additionally they will simply*not have the expertise to deal with complex legal*issues nor the ability to grant interdict. * The mark of any civilised society is free access to justice and there is no better forum than Scotland's supreme civil court.*
Leslie Deans

What a bafoon and bumbling twatting fool.
Sign up and post it's not difficult, but unless his email has already been banned 🙃

[malcolm]

Perhaps you could post my following comments.*
I understand there has been some adverse comment regarding my piece of earlier today.*
The information I was given , from a normally reliable source, stated that our petition named SPFL as respondents with intimation to four other clubs. DU , RR, CR and Stranraer. *I now accept that information was erroneous. Had I known that at the time, my comments of earlier today would have differed. I accept that I could have examined the petition in detail myself and apologise to anyone feeling misled by my comments. I can assure you that this was not my intention. * Perhaps age is catching up with me.!*

Whilst no one can categorically state the outcome of litigation,
I stand by my earlier comments on this aspect.*
I remain deeply concerned by the potential conflict of interest if the case is referred to the SFA. Additionally they will simply*not have the expertise to deal with complex legal*issues nor the ability to grant interdict. * The mark of any civilised society is free access to justice and there is no better forum than Scotland's supreme civil court.*
Leslie Deans

I wonder what complexity he imagines exists, let alone what legal issues exist, if the SFA get involved in the way that all clubs have signed up to.

Of course as an aged conveyancer his knowledge of non property legal issues was probably last up to date, at least superficially (and clearly evidentially from his waffle :wink:), around the time he passed his law degree... way back in mid 20th C. :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

Y’know, if AB had any emotional intel, she’d have released a very simple statement enabling Hearts to take a higher ground.

eg

”given the severe circumstance affecting Scottish football at present, we as a member of the SPFL, agree the the correct decision has been made in regards to ending the season.” “ we are disappointed to be relegated under such circumstance however, we will return to the top league a much stronger and focused team.”

I really don’t get her continued childishness ����

You would need to add a lot more exclamation marks and ellipses for it to have the seal of authenticity that it came from the good doctor :greengrin

[DaveF]

Honestly, how much more of an arse can Hearts make of things?

Patrick must cry themselves to sleep each night wondering why did we get involved with these Flumps.

[Jim44]

I wonder what complexity he imagines exists, let alone what legal issues exist, if the SFA get involved in the way that all clubs have signed up to.

Of course as an aged conveyancer his knowledge of non property legal issues was probably last up to date, at least superficially (and clearly evidentially from his waffle :wink:), around the time he passed his law degree... way back in mid 20th C. :greengrin

...... ‘It’s no fair.’

[Kato]

He’s an idiot.

Giving him way too much credit there.

[Bostonhibby]

Deans:

Perhaps age is catching up with me.!Sounds like a hefty dose of aged Harvey's Bristol Cream has influenced that rambling mess.

The last part is surely a cut and paste from some kids O level law paper?

The pair of them are doing Hearts fans no favours, which is pleasing

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Baader]

Deans just embarrassing himself in public again I see. Seems to call everything wrong. Some 'authority' he is?! Does anyone actually listen to the auld slavering mess?

[Bostonhibby]

Deans just embarrassing himself in public again I see. Seems to call everything wrong. Does anyone actually listen to the auld slavering mess?Him and Foulkes would make a brilliant Waldorf & Statler.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Caversham Green]

Perhaps you could post my following comments.*
I understand there has been some adverse comment regarding my piece of earlier today.*
The information I was given , from a normally reliable source, stated that our petition named SPFL as respondents with intimation to four other clubs. DU , RR, CR and Stranraer. *I now accept that information was erroneous. Had I known that at the time, my comments of earlier today would have differed. I accept that I could have examined the petition in detail myself and apologise to anyone feeling misled by my comments. I can assure you that this was not my intention. * Perhaps age is catching up with me.!*

Whilst no one can categorically state the outcome of litigation,
I stand by my earlier comments on this aspect.*
I remain deeply concerned by the potential conflict of interest if the case is referred to the SFA. Additionally they will simply*not have the expertise to deal with complex legal*issues nor the ability to grant interdict. * The mark of any civilised society is free access to justice and there is no better forum than Scotland's supreme civil court.*
Leslie Deans

Someone else's fault - there speaks a proper Hearts man.

[huggie1875]

Deans just embarrassing himself in public again I see. Seems to call everything wrong. Some 'authority' he is?! Does anyone actually listen to the auld slavering mess?



i hope they keep listening to him https://www.hibs.net/image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhDwAPANEAAP///729vVn/yAAAACH/C05FVFNDQVBFMi4wAwEAAAAh/sFodHRwOi8vd3d3LnJ0bHNvZnQuY29tL2FuaW1hZ2ljLwoKQ3J lYXRlZCB3aXRoIEFuaW1hZ2ljIEdJRiBWIDEuMjEKYnkgUmlna HQgdG8gTGVmdCBTb2Z0d2FyZSBJbmMuCgpUbyBzdXBwcmVzcyB 0aGlzIG1lc3NhZ2UgaW4gdGhlIHJlZ2lzdGVyZWQgdmVyc2lvb gp1bmNoZWNrICJPcHRpb25zIHwgQW5pbWFnaWMgY29tbWVudCB mcmFtZSIKACH5BAkeAAEALAAAAAAPAA8AAAI6jD2Zx5EC4WIjW nmqeFIPtElh GnX SiqulUDALyw7LozHM/tdveuw5PlfsAWjvMBtRQYiqnTyKgaBQAh QQJHgABACwAAAAADwAPAAACOYw9mceRAuFiI1p5qnhbbtSF3OB cplQpqrqlADC88Ju6M023G86nZRzD Uot2SiDUmAomsik4VA1CgAh QQJHgABACwAAAAADwAPAAACOow9mceRAuFiI1p5qnhSD7RJYfh p1/koqrpVAwC8sOy6MxzP7Xb3rsOT5X7AFo7zAbUUGIqp08ioGgUA IfkECR4AAQAsAAAAAA8ADwAAAjqMPZnHkQLhYkM8WcfJ0nbtRK KoVeNpZcqqpBYADHAMqy9d166M41ko49F odTsAiqyJI1LZNJwrBoFACH5BAkeAAEALAAAAAAPAA8AAAI6jD 2Zx5EC4WIjWnmqeFIPtElh GnX SiqulUDALyw7LozHM/tdveuw5PlfsAWjvMBtRQYiqnTyKgaBQAh QQJHgABACwAAAAADwAPAAACOow9mceRAuFiQzxZx8nSdu1Eoqh V42llyqqkFgAMcAyrL13XrozjWSjj0X6h1OwCKrIkjUtk0nCsG gUAIfkECR4AAQAsAAAAAA8ADwAAAjqMPZnHkQLhYiNaeap4Ug 0SWH4adf5KKq6VQMAvLDsujMcz 12967Dk V wBaO8wG1FBiKqdPIqBoFADs=

[TheMrSandiego]

Y’know, if AB had any emotional intel, she’d have released a very simple statement enabling Hearts to take a higher ground.

eg

”given the severe circumstance affecting Scottish football at present, we as a member of the SPFL, agree the the correct decision has been made in regards to ending the season.” “ we are disappointed to be relegated under such circumstance however, we will return to the top league a much stronger and focused team.”

I really don’t get her continued childishness ����


So far every club across Europe who were relegated after a season concluded early have appealed on similar grounds to Hearts so not sure why that should come as a surprise. If we are being honest, and its hard to do with green tinted glasses, we would be asking our board to do exactly the same if we were in the same position. Especially given the huge losses that will come as a result of this. It might actully finish the club off.

BUT even with all that said, they need to be prepared for the fact that if/when the case doesnt go their way and relegation is confirmed, they will officially be the most hated club in the country, and not just from us either.

[Sammy7nil]

Once the dust settles Scotland needs to have a long hard look at reconstruction and the voting system.

The 12 team top league is a no brainer for me however below that there has to be serious rethink. We have club chairman saying thank fecck Brora did not get in the league due to the cost of hiring a bus and food for players.

I think we should have a 12 team league then 16 - 18 teams in the Championship with everything else below that regional still with the opportunity to be promoted. Teams out with the top two leagues should not hold the same voting rights. Within 3-4 years most teams would find their rightful place in the structure. Smaller teams could if the wished cut costs and more ambitious teams could plan for the future.

[bingo70]

So far every club across Europe who were relegated after a season concluded early have appealed on similar grounds to Hearts so not sure why that should come as a surprise. If we are being honest, and its hard to do with green tinted glasses, we would be asking our board to do exactly the same if we were in the same position. Especially given the huge losses that will come as a result of this. It might actully finish the club off.

BUT even with all that said, they need to be prepared for the fact that if/when the case doesnt go their way and relegation is confirmed, they will officially be the most hated club in the country, and not just from us either.

I wouldn’t.

Worst team in the league needs relegated, I wouldn’t expect us to try and stop other teams being promoted because of it. Likewise I wouldn’t expect reconstruction to happen to the detriment of all other clubs for 5 years to appease us for one year.

I know people will think I’m talking rubbish and I’d change my mind if it was Hibs in their shoes but I’m pretty certain I wouldn’t.

Seems to me there’s been a real lack of awareness from Hearts fans about the lack of other options available. When you try and have that conversation all ive managed to get get back is that it’s ‘not fair’

[Peevemor]

I wonder if it was Deans that prompted Budge to issue that daft statement yesterday. It seems to be based on the same bad information.

[Sammy7nil]

So far every club across Europe who were relegated after a season concluded early have appealed on similar grounds to Hearts so not sure why that should come as a surprise. If we are being honest, and its hard to do with green tinted glasses, we would be asking our board to do exactly the same if we were in the same position. Especially given the huge losses that will come as a result of this. It might actully finish the club off.

BUT even with all that said, they need to be prepared for the fact that if/when the case doesnt go their way and relegation is confirmed, they will officially be the most hated club in the country, and not just from us either.

The Budgie has been quoted as saying Mr Benefactor has ensured they have funding for the next 5 years so other than possibly Celtic they are the one club equipped to deal with this situation. If that is true Budgie could have taken the higher ground stance. However this would appear to be about big team vanity. If she is lying and does not have funds in place then yes they are in trouble.

However paying for Neilson and allegedly offering Gordon a contract it would appear they are not skint.

[brog]

What a bafoon and bumbling twatting fool.
Sign up and post it's not difficult, but unless his email has already been banned 🙃


It reads to me as if he's 100% expecting the case to be referred back to the SFA. That could be the 1st thing he's got right!!

[DaveF]

I wonder if it was Deans that prompted Budge to issue that daft statement yesterday. It seems to be based on the same bad information.

I think so. Given the leaked letter had nothing contentious in it, you can only assume wee Leslie squealed at Budge and she promptly released that statement.

[Tug Wilson]

Correct no one looks at both sides of the argument they just search for things that back their point of view.

Very good point.

For balance I think that the Petition boils down to the following issues:

1. The initial Dundee no vote should have stood. They did not have the right to change it. Now this, I would imagine, will be a simple matter of law. Lord Clark will be able to read the Articles of the SPFL and the relevant company law and come to a conclusion. All depends on Lord Clark's reading of the situation. So do Hearts have a chance? You would be surprised at some judgements made in the courts so maybe.

2. That the SPFL rules meant that 38 games are need to be played to complete the league. Again this will come down to the court's interpretation of the SPFL articles. Chances? Again a maybe.

3. That the vote to call leagues 1 and 2 and the Championship was made under false pretences because the SPFL willfully withheld information from the members that was prejudical to the no vote. This is the most serious charge imho as it accuses the SPFL of actual corruption. Does it have legs? Possibly, but The Rangers dossier was weak so unless Hearts have further evidence then they could struggle to make any mud stick.

4. The allegations of the coercion and bullying? For these to stick then a club unconnected to the action will have to stick its head above the parapet. No sign of that so far.

5. The Petition also refers to "no reasonable member would..." in many parts. Basically saying that it was unreasonable for the members to vote as they did. The "its unfair" challenge. Again this is a point of debate. Lord Clark would have to rule that the other clubs have acted unreasonably. Obviously Hearts fans believe this but will the judge?

Matters 1 & 2 are matters of interpretation of written rules and 3, 4 & 5 are more issues of conjecture and debate.

Objectively Hearts do possibly have a case but not nearly as cast iron as they seem to believe.

However, even if they were to win by proving part of their case, the remedies are not cut and dried. The judge may decide that reinstatement to the Premiership is not practical and that it prejudices the "promoted" clubs. So it might be compensation. However, the SPFL will attempt to show that the sum claimed for does not represent the actual losses incurred. So any sum granted may well be significantly reduced.

We will see.

[Jim44]

So far every club across Europe who were relegated after a season concluded early have appealed on similar grounds to Hearts so not sure why that should come as a surprise. If we are being honest, and its hard to do with green tinted glasses, we would be asking our board to do exactly the same if we were in the same position. Especially given the huge losses that will come as a result of this. It might actully finish the club off.

BUT even with all that said, they need to be prepared for the fact that if/when the case doesnt go their way and relegation is confirmed, they will officially be the most hated club in the country, and not just from us either.

Agreed, but in the unlikely event they won their case they would still be the most despised club in the country, because of their behaviour of the past few weeks. Absolutely classless and totally lacking in integrity.

[Sammy7nil]

Very good point.

For balance I think that the Petition boils down to the following issues:

1. The initial Dundee no vote should have stood. They did not have the right to change it. Now this, I would imagine, will be a simple matter of law. Lord Clark will be able to read the Articles of the SPFL and the relevant company law and come to a conclusion. All depends on Lord Clark's reading of the situation. So do Hearts have a chance? You would be surprised at some judgements made in the courts so maybe.

2. That the SPFL rules meant that 38 games are need to be played to complete the league. Again this will come down to the court's interpretation of the SPFL articles. Chances? Again a maybe.

3. That the vote to call leagues 1 and 2 and the Championship was made under false pretences because the SPFL willfully withheld information from the members that was prejudical to the no vote. This is the most serious charge imho as it accuses the SPFL of actual corruption. Does it have legs? Possibly, but The Rangers dossier was weak so unless Hearts have further evidence then they could struggle to make any mud stick.

4. The allegations of the coercion and bullying? For these to stick then a club unconnected to the action will have to stick its head above the parapet. No sign of that so far.

5. The Petition also refers to "no reasonable member would..." in many parts. Basically saying that it was unreasonable for the members to vote as they did. The "its unfair" challenge. Again this is a point of debate. Lord Clark would have to rule that the other clubs have acted unreasonably. Obviously Hearts fans believe this but will the judge?

Matters 1 & 2 are matters of interpretation of written rules and 3, 4 & 5 are more issues of conjecture and debate.

Objectively Hearts do possibly have a case but not nearly as cast iron as they seem to believe.

However, even if they were to win by proving part of their case, the remedies are not cut and dried. The judge may decide that reinstatement to the Premiership is not practical and that it prejudices the "promoted" clubs. So it might be compensation. However, the SPFL will attempt to show that the sum claimed for does not represent the actual losses incurred. So any sum granted may well be significantly reduced.

We will see.

Very good summary :aok:

[Phil MaGlass]

Maybe it is just me, but, I think it's pretty disgusting of any team, and I really do mean any and every team, that Furloughs their players and staff, asks them also to take wage cuts and then goes out and signs players or managers are taking the piss and need to be investigated. How on earth can that be happening when I have mates losing their jobs and strugglin to make a living but f,n fitba clubs can keep signing players and managers and paying fees for them, wtf. Worlds gone f,n mad.

[Ozyhibby]

I wouldn’t.

Worst team in the league needs relegated, I wouldn’t expect us to try and stop other teams being promoted because of it. Likewise I wouldn’t expect reconstruction to happen to the detriment of all other clubs for 5 years to appease us for one year.

I know people will think I’m talking rubbish and I’d change my mind if it was Hibs in their shoes but I’m pretty certain I wouldn’t.

Seems to me there’s been a real lack of awareness from Hearts fans about the lack of other options available. When you try and have that conversation all ive managed to get get back is that it’s ‘not fair’

I agree. If it was Hibs in that situation I would be looking for sackings at East Mains among both the coaches and recruitment teams and also Leeann Dempster.
What Budge has done is stop that level of scrutiny of herself and the management of the club.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[proud_and_green]

I wouldn’t.

Worst team in the league needs relegated, I wouldn’t expect us to try and stop other teams being promoted because of it. Likewise I wouldn’t expect reconstruction to happen to the detriment of all other clubs for 5 years to appease us for one year.

I know people will think I’m talking rubbish and I’d change my mind if it was Hibs in their shoes but I’m pretty certain I wouldn’t.

Seems to me there’s been a real lack of awareness from Hearts fans about the lack of other options available. When you try and have that conversation all ive managed to get get back is that it’s ‘not fair’

Nope, i don't. I wholeheartedly agree with you. It used to be called playing the game, sometimes you just have to accept its your turn to take it on the chin and learn from the experience and maybe you'll come back stronger and better.

Re your last para, i think it's a lack of willingness to accept there is a lack of other options rather than just a simple lack of awareness. Not everything is fair, but so many people nowadays think they have a right to a fair crack at the whip regardless of the amount of work they are willing to put in or whether that fair crack at the whip in fact disadvantages many others or in fact gives you an unfair advantage.

[blackpoolhibs]

Perhaps you could post my following comments.*
I understand there has been some adverse comment regarding my piece of earlier today.*
The information I was given , from a normally reliable source, stated that our petition named SPFL as respondents with intimation to four other clubs. DU , RR, CR and Stranraer. *I now accept that information was erroneous. Had I known that at the time, my comments of earlier today would have differed. I accept that I could have examined the petition in detail myself and apologise to anyone feeling misled by my comments. I can assure you that this was not my intention. * Perhaps age is catching up with me.!*

Whilst no one can categorically state the outcome of litigation,
I stand by my earlier comments on this aspect.*
I remain deeply concerned by the potential conflict of interest if the case is referred to the SFA. Additionally they will simply*not have the expertise to deal with complex legal*issues nor the ability to grant interdict. * The mark of any civilised society is free access to justice and there is no better forum than Scotland's supreme civil court.*
Leslie Deans

How reliable has this source been so far? :greengrin

[Jim44]

The Budgie has been quoted as saying Mr Benefactor has ensured they have funding for the next 5 years so other than possibly Celtic they are the one club equipped to deal with this situation. If that is true Budgie could have taken the higher ground stance. However this would appear to be about big team vanity. If she is lying and does not have funds in place then yes they are in trouble.

However paying for Neilson and allegedly offering Gordon a contract it would appear they are not skint.

Ok, Mr Benny Factor has offered them a bottomless purse because he is a supporter. But if I was a sugar daddy, like him, I would be expecting some sort of return for my money, in terms of quality management, a challenging team, demanding respect and holding their own as a football club. This guy doesn’t get anything like that and is just peeing his money down the drain.

[Sammy7nil]

I wouldn’t.

Worst team in the league needs relegated, I wouldn’t expect us to try and stop other teams being promoted because of it. Likewise I wouldn’t expect reconstruction to happen to the detriment of all other clubs for 5 years to appease us for one year.

I know people will think I’m talking rubbish and I’d change my mind if it was Hibs in their shoes but I’m pretty certain I wouldn’t.

Seems to me there’s been a real lack of awareness from Hearts fans about the lack of other options available. When you try and have that conversation all ive managed to get get back is that it’s ‘not fair’

:agree: I have said it before of course we all would have expected and wanted Hibs to challenge this had we been bottom. Yes we would have moaned and likely squealed it is unfair. However after several efforts and consistently being told no by our peers I would have hoped and expected Hibs to drop it. Especially if Leanne was saying we had a benefactor in place guaranteeing funds for the next five years.

[Aldo]

Very good point.

For balance I think that the Petition boils down to the following issues:

1. The initial Dundee no vote should have stood. They did not have the right to change it. Now this, I would imagine, will be a simple matter of law. Lord Clark will be able to read the Articles of the SPFL and the relevant company law and come to a conclusion. All depends on Lord Clark's reading of the situation. So do Hearts have a chance? You would be surprised at some judgements made in the courts so maybe.

2. That the SPFL rules meant that 38 games are need to be played to complete the league. Again this will come down to the court's interpretation of the SPFL articles. Chances? Again a maybe.

3. That the vote to call leagues 1 and 2 and the Championship was made under false pretences because the SPFL willfully withheld information from the members that was prejudical to the no vote. This is the most serious charge imho as it accuses the SPFL of actual corruption. Does it have legs? Possibly, but The Rangers dossier was weak so unless Hearts have further evidence then they could struggle to make any mud stick.

4. The allegations of the coercion and bullying? For these to stick then a club unconnected to the action will have to stick its head above the parapet. No sign of that so far.

5. The Petition also refers to "no reasonable member would..." in many parts. Basically saying that it was unreasonable for the members to vote as they did. The "its unfair" challenge. Again this is a point of debate. Lord Clark would have to rule that the other clubs have acted unreasonably. Obviously Hearts fans believe this but will the judge?

Matters 1 & 2 are matters of interpretation of written rules and 3, 4 & 5 are more issues of conjecture and debate.

Objectively Hearts do possibly have a case but not nearly as cast iron as they seem to believe.

However, even if they were to win by proving part of their case, the remedies are not cut and dried. The judge may decide that reinstatement to the Premiership is not practical and that it prejudices the "promoted" clubs. So it might be compensation. However, the SPFL will attempt to show that the sum claimed for does not represent the actual losses incurred. So any sum granted may well be significantly reduced.

We will see.

I think your point 1 is incorrect. They did have the option to change from a no to yes vote. If you voted yes you couldn’t change it to no!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lunatic]

I wouldn’t.

Worst team in the league needs relegated, I wouldn’t expect us to try and stop other teams being promoted because of it. Likewise I wouldn’t expect reconstruction to happen to the detriment of all other clubs for 5 years to appease us for one year.

I know people will think I’m talking rubbish and I’d change my mind if it was Hibs in their shoes but I’m pretty certain I wouldn’t.

Seems to me there’s been a real lack of awareness from Hearts fans about the lack of other options available. When you try and have that conversation all ive managed to get get back is that it’s ‘not fair’

Agreed. And furthermore, I would be absolutely furious at the set up that had allowed us to find ourselves in such a position, having squandered SO MUCH money.

Hearts have played a blinder so far, because their fans are dumb enough to fall for it. They just need to find a way out of this court case. Hearts' best case scenario is - referred back to SFA, say they did all they could, play in the championship backed by hoards of
apoplectic morons.

[Ozyhibby]

Maybe it is just me, but, I think it's pretty disgusting of any team, and I really do mean any and every team, that Furloughs their players and staff, asks them also to take wage cuts and then goes out and signs players or managers are taking the piss and need to be investigated. How on earth can that be happening when I have mates losing their jobs and strugglin to make a living but f,n fitba clubs can keep signing players and managers and paying fees for them, wtf. Worlds gone f,n mad.

We’ll be doing the same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Irish_Steve]

How reliable has this source been so far? :greengrin

The reliable source that told Deans, PL teams were 10-2 in favour of reconstruction. Either his source is unreliable (is that an understatement) or it's the Pieman getting back at him lol


And as an aside, you it be childish to create an account in Brokeback under LD's name - asking for a friend obviously!

[TheMrSandiego]

I wouldn’t.

Worst team in the league needs relegated, I wouldn’t expect us to try and stop other teams being promoted because of it. Likewise I wouldn’t expect reconstruction to happen to the detriment of all other clubs for 5 years to appease us for one year.

I know people will think I’m talking rubbish and I’d change my mind if it was Hibs in their shoes but I’m pretty certain I wouldn’t.

Seems to me there’s been a real lack of awareness from Hearts fans about the lack of other options available. When you try and have that conversation all ive managed to get get back is that it’s ‘not fair’


Possibly, but then we don't have any real emotional investment in this whole shoddy mess other than our rivals going down. My intial response was only playing devils advocate as i think any club in that position would be doing the same. You see it all the time even when from an outside viewpoint it looks like a non-starter. Take Sheffield United back in 2007 with the whole Tevez saga.

I was actually a bit peeved at us finishing 7th after the league was called as i reckon we had a good chance of catching 4th. The only reason i was satisfied enough with the outcome is because at the time it felt like the right decision and we had the added bonus of Hearts getting relegated.

I suppose the point im making is we are all in our own bubble. We want whats best for Hibs and other teams are the same. I think what this has shown us is that we can never expect any of the other teams to show dignity and concern for anyone except themselves. From Celtic celebrating their title win and Raith claiming they deserve to be promoted, all the way to Hearts and Stranraer saying its not fair they were relegated. I think the only team who really have a gripe is Partick.

[bingo70]

Agreed. And furthermore, I would be absolutely furious at the set up that had allowed us to find ourselves in such a position, having squandered SO MUCH money.

Hearts have played a blinder so far, because their fans are dumb enough to fall for it. They just need to find a way out of this court case. Hearts' best case scenario is - referred back to SFA, say they did all they could, play in the championship backed by hoards of
apoplectic morons.

I’d also be furious at the half arsed league reconstruction proposition that was put forward by Budge to save their skin.

The lack of detail and effort that went into that proposal was nothing short of a disgrace. It was nothing better than a rambling post you’d expect to see on a forum.

I’d be furious at Budge who should have phoned ALL clubs on day one to ask for their thoughts on reconstruction and then called them again before submitting her proposals. What she eventually presented was no more than an hour or so’s thoughts on what would benefit Hearts but nobody else. When I’ve said that to Jambos though all I have heard back is that it shouldn’t be up to them to find a solution.

Terrible attitude they’ve had to all of this and it’s one of the reasons I’m hopeful they may stay down for more than the one year.