Jambos Legal Challenge

[04Sauzee]

Pedantic point, it was Simon Bates

You get the gist though eh 😁

[Hibs4185]

I think they are hurting. Pleasing!


My son is eight years old. Tonight he watched Manchester City thrash Liverpool. He knew all the line ups for both teams. He knew when to shout at VAR*. A month ago, he barely knew that either existed. He was, and still is, Hearts daft. But something has changed.

When the SPFL decided to put a gun to the heads of its constituent clubs (aka shareholders - who knew?) by offering money in return for ensuring Celtic were handed their nobody-else-really-cares-in-a-row title, Scottish football changed. Sure, underneath it all things have been pretty skewed for a long time. But now it was out in the open. The big fish were to get their big feed, and access to the Champions League, while the small fry would, you thought, be content with whatever scraps were thrown their way.

My son was still on a high from watching Hearts win the last derby 3-1. We watched the goals daily. Sure, his optimism had taken a hit when we lost to St Mirren*, but we still had 24 points to play for. And despite a jaded father who has seen his team stuff things up more times than he cares to remember, for an eight year old boy, his team will always have a chance. But no, that chance was taken away from him. Similarly, it was taken away from the fans of Partick, Inverness, Dundee (ironically enough), Falkirk and Stranraer. The wee bit of magic that football gives us, by being eleven-v-eleven and on any given Saturday, etc. Your dedication to one team's needs ran roughshod over the thing that all football fans should always have: hopes and dreams for their team.

After the corrupt 'vote' you orchestrated at Easter, I tried to explain the situation to my son. Now, before you get the wrong impression, he's no saint. He cheats. Snakes and ladders, Mario Kart, water gun fights - he makes no bones about trying to defeat his younger brother and myself. He can be sleekit or he can be outrageously shameless. But when I tried to explain that the football team, the only football team he has ever cared about (and bear in mind this kid lived in Catalonia and yet doesn't give a stuff for Barcelona) were to be expelled from the top division for no apparent reason other than the administrator's desire to ensure Celtic could be handed a title that was already in the bag anyway, even he looked at me askance and said, "But that's not fair."

Sure, I tried to break down the PPG 'rule' which was invented to justify the decision. I told him how important money was. He actually gets this. He saves his pocket money to buy sale items in the Hearts shop. But still he wasn't convinced. I asked him to see it from the other clubs' point of view. He asked why they didn't like Hearts. I couldn't give him an answer. Even one of your little lickspittle lackeys, Les Gray, declared that what is going on is 'unfair'. At least admit it, Neil. Tell us that you know demoting a team four points from safety with twenty-four to play for is unfair. Ask Werder Bremen fans what they think about making up point differences.

Then, in the middle of lockdown, the Germans showed the way by playing football again (we'll skip Belarus, although I'm sure they could show you a few tricks in propaganda given their leader's Soviet-era cling-to-power-at-all-costs mentality). Then English football, which some of his friends talk about despite being Edinburgh born and bred, rave about. Until June, you see, my son had been taught to follow his local team and only his local team. He was obsessed with the Foundation of Hearts kit printed with the names of the thousands of fans that had helped keep our team alive. He loved hunting for my name. I was on minimum wage in Spain when I started paying into that fund. He loves this fact - that the people around him at Tynecastle, no matter their circumstances, had some kind of collective spirit to keep something we love alive. Please, tell us how much money you've taken out of Scottish football. Can you equate that with the value you've put in? Nobody even wants to sponsor your sham of a league.

But he still couldn't get it into his head why his team had been removed from the top league.

Now, you could call me irresponsible, but my son loves football so much (we've been out most days during lockdown playing in the Meadows) that I allowed him to stay up late to watch football from Germany, England and Spain. He asks the same question most nights, though. "Why can Hearts and the other teams not play now?" Now, I'm not going to hold you to account for the Scottish Government's decisions around contact sports and when it's safe for these to go ahead. But the bit that I do find hard to explain - perhaps you could, Neil - is why our season had to be 'called' when others are able to resume at a later date? Was there someone in your ear? Were you under pressure to twist some arms? I mean, was this an equitable solution for anyone?

My son's now watching the English Premier League every night, begging me to stay up late so he can see live football from just a few hundred miles away. He's no longer saying to his friends that they should support Hearts because you ought to support your local team. He's getting swept up in the hype and marketing that the EPL does so well. Last night I asked him if he was looking forward to seeing Hearts play again, no matter what league they play in. To be honest, he wasn't as bothered as he was a couple of months ago. He doesn't pretend to be Sean Clare or Steven Naismith now when we play. He's Mo Salah or Kevin de Bruyne or Leo Messi. He sees them playing their games on the pitch, not in secretive votes and skullduggery. He also sees VAR decisions making sure that things are reasonably fair. He cares more about that word now than he did before. He's started playing more fairly with his brother. He doesn't want to be 'unfair, like what they did to Hearts'. You've had quite the impact, even unintentionally.

You see, Neil, an eight year old can see right through you and whoever else helped you ram through your plan back in April. You've given another kid less reason to watch Scottish football and thrown them into the embrace of the mega-leagues and their marketable 'product'. You've been found out by a kid that still talks about the last cup final as thought it was one of the most important days of his short life even though his heroes lost it. Think how many other eight year olds in this country there are who don't understand why their team is going to come out of covid-19 far more disadvantaged than the other teams. Think about that for a second. Sure, I knew the ball was burst a long time ago - and it wasn't your fault at all. But what happened in April, and the nonsense which has followed it, well, that's on you.

Whatever went on in April when you pressured clubs (and I haven't even really mentioned the pathetically transparent and surprisingly successful attempt at coercion with that Nelms chancer at Dundee) to 'call' the season before the teams had a chance discover that things 'even themselves out' and find their true position in the league over a 38-game season as we were promised at the outset, just at least tell us that you haven't played it fair. We know it. My son knows it. Telling us anything else from here on is just lying.

*Not that I'm blaming you for this, but if VAR had existed in the SPFL, the St Mirren goal should have been ruled out for offside, meaning it would have been St Mirren you'd have been shafting and some pissed off guy from Paisley typing this.

James Anderson must’ve know a few kids who support hearts and that’s why he chose hearts for his save the children support.

[Since452]

My Jambo mates are refusing to accept it's done. They are pinning everything on the documentation now saying that's the main bit. Yesterday they were claiming they were staying up and being awarded millions. Utter, utter delusion. Just refusing to take the maroon specs off. Scottish football is laughing at them.

[Stanton Spence]

You get the gist though eh [emoji16]I definitely had the doo doo dooooo Simon Bates our tune in my napper when reading it [emoji23][emoji106]

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk

[Irish_Steve]

I definitely had the doo doo dooooo Simon Bates our tune in my napper when reading it [emoji23][emoji106]

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk

"And it was at that point, Hearts realised that their hopes and dreams had been crushed..................

[CropleyWasGod]

"And it was at that point, Hearts realised that their hopes had been crushed..................

I never did see Easter Road again.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6ZDsUGiGqM

[proud_and_green]

Does anybody else have the tune to DLT's our tune going through their head when they read thisSimon Bates...

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk

[Del Boy]

Realistically what’s going to be in the documentation that can help their cause? If there was anything dodgy going on it won’t be in any email or letter sent between SPFL and club chairmen, so what is it they’re so excited about seeing?

[The 90+2]

Realistically what’s going to be in the documentation that can help their cause? If there was anything dodgy going on it won’t be in any email or letter sent between SPFL and club chairmen, so what is it they’re so excited about seeing?

If there was anything dodgy then the huns would have asked for it months ago when they tried to go at Doncaster and the other guy.

[greenginger]

Realistically what’s going to be in the documentation that can help their cause? If there was anything dodgy going on it won’t be in any email or letter sent between SPFL and club chairmen, so what is it they’re so excited about seeing?


Do do they still believe the Dundee no vote should have stood ?

[Irish_Steve]

I never did see Easter Road again.......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6ZDsUGiGqM

David eventually left me :(

[theonlywayisup]

Simon Bates...

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk

Brilliant part of the show, great tune!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6ZDsUGiGqM

I get annoyed and bored with today's radio presenters that need a co-host to enter in a conversation of pure drivel. Bring back the oldies like Simon; hadn't realised that he is 71, but then I'm not getting any younger.

[O'Rourke3]

Does anybody else have the tune to DLT's our tune going through their head when they read thisSimon Bates. Rookie error......

Sent from my SM-T580 using Tapatalk

Agh many other replies....

[Scooter]

Realistically what’s going to be in the documentation that can help their cause? If there was anything dodgy going on it won’t be in any email or letter sent between SPFL and club chairmen, so what is it they’re so excited about seeing?

I'm sure Andy has said that the documentation wont make a difference and they were told that in court by the leagues QC

[Del Boy]

Who provides the list of judges that Hearts and the SPFL choose from?

[truehibernian]

Realistically what’s going to be in the documentation that can help their cause? If there was anything dodgy going on it won’t be in any email or letter sent between SPFL and club chairmen, so what is it they’re so excited about seeing?

The documentation that was independently reviewed and investigated by Deloitte :aok: and the 'whistleblower' evidence from The Rangers :greengrin

They'll need to introduce Harry Potter's list of spells at arbitration :greengrin...."Expelliarmus" :aok:

[Alfred E Newman]

And offside, Really? There may have been a handball but offside was never in the equation IIRC. Oh & if VAR's the answer can we please have Leigh & Forster's goals now?

And let's go back to 2012 and get Black rightly red carded.

[Onion]

Someone needs to remind Hearts they're in this position because they are so utterly crap at playing the game of football. Lawyers, arbiters, media and Hearts directors have taken over the asylum. Sporting performance is being challenged by some random solicitor with his own interpretation of the processes of the game. Madness that it's even got this far.

[Col2]

Saughton Jambo

“Let’s not forget that exactly 104 years ago this week at the Somme, Hearts men kept going, refusing to give up and fighting to the end , despite their suffering. We, and I mean all of us, should honour their memory and do exactly the same. We will never give up!

Nemo me impune lacessit”

[JeMeSouviens]

I think they are hurting. Pleasing!


My son is eight years old. Tonight he watched Manchester City thrash Liverpool. He knew all the line ups for both teams. He knew when to shout at VAR*. A month ago, he barely knew that either existed. He was, and still is, Hearts daft. But something has changed.

When the SPFL decided to put a gun to the heads of its constituent clubs (aka shareholders - who knew?) by offering money in return for ensuring Celtic were handed their nobody-else-really-cares-in-a-row title, Scottish football changed. Sure, underneath it all things have been pretty skewed for a long time. But now it was out in the open. The big fish were to get their big feed, and access to the Champions League, while the small fry would, you thought, be content with whatever scraps were thrown their way.

My son was still on a high from watching Hearts win the last derby 3-1. We watched the goals daily. Sure, his optimism had taken a hit when we lost to St Mirren*, but we still had 24 points to play for. And despite a jaded father who has seen his team stuff things up more times than he cares to remember, for an eight year old boy, his team will always have a chance. But no, that chance was taken away from him. Similarly, it was taken away from the fans of Partick, Inverness, Dundee (ironically enough), Falkirk and Stranraer. The wee bit of magic that football gives us, by being eleven-v-eleven and on any given Saturday, etc. Your dedication to one team's needs ran roughshod over the thing that all football fans should always have: hopes and dreams for their team.

After the corrupt 'vote' you orchestrated at Easter, I tried to explain the situation to my son. Now, before you get the wrong impression, he's no saint. He cheats. Snakes and ladders, Mario Kart, water gun fights - he makes no bones about trying to defeat his younger brother and myself. He can be sleekit or he can be outrageously shameless. But when I tried to explain that the football team, the only football team he has ever cared about (and bear in mind this kid lived in Catalonia and yet doesn't give a stuff for Barcelona) were to be expelled from the top division for no apparent reason other than the administrator's desire to ensure Celtic could be handed a title that was already in the bag anyway, even he looked at me askance and said, "But that's not fair."

Sure, I tried to break down the PPG 'rule' which was invented to justify the decision. I told him how important money was. He actually gets this. He saves his pocket money to buy sale items in the Hearts shop. But still he wasn't convinced. I asked him to see it from the other clubs' point of view. He asked why they didn't like Hearts. I couldn't give him an answer. Even one of your little lickspittle lackeys, Les Gray, declared that what is going on is 'unfair'. At least admit it, Neil. Tell us that you know demoting a team four points from safety with twenty-four to play for is unfair. Ask Werder Bremen fans what they think about making up point differences.

Then, in the middle of lockdown, the Germans showed the way by playing football again (we'll skip Belarus, although I'm sure they could show you a few tricks in propaganda given their leader's Soviet-era cling-to-power-at-all-costs mentality). Then English football, which some of his friends talk about despite being Edinburgh born and bred, rave about. Until June, you see, my son had been taught to follow his local team and only his local team. He was obsessed with the Foundation of Hearts kit printed with the names of the thousands of fans that had helped keep our team alive. He loved hunting for my name. I was on minimum wage in Spain when I started paying into that fund. He loves this fact - that the people around him at Tynecastle, no matter their circumstances, had some kind of collective spirit to keep something we love alive. Please, tell us how much money you've taken out of Scottish football. Can you equate that with the value you've put in? Nobody even wants to sponsor your sham of a league.

But he still couldn't get it into his head why his team had been removed from the top league.

Now, you could call me irresponsible, but my son loves football so much (we've been out most days during lockdown playing in the Meadows) that I allowed him to stay up late to watch football from Germany, England and Spain. He asks the same question most nights, though. "Why can Hearts and the other teams not play now?" Now, I'm not going to hold you to account for the Scottish Government's decisions around contact sports and when it's safe for these to go ahead. But the bit that I do find hard to explain - perhaps you could, Neil - is why our season had to be 'called' when others are able to resume at a later date? Was there someone in your ear? Were you under pressure to twist some arms? I mean, was this an equitable solution for anyone?

My son's now watching the English Premier League every night, begging me to stay up late so he can see live football from just a few hundred miles away. He's no longer saying to his friends that they should support Hearts because you ought to support your local team. He's getting swept up in the hype and marketing that the EPL does so well. Last night I asked him if he was looking forward to seeing Hearts play again, no matter what league they play in. To be honest, he wasn't as bothered as he was a couple of months ago. He doesn't pretend to be Sean Clare or Steven Naismith now when we play. He's Mo Salah or Kevin de Bruyne or Leo Messi. He sees them playing their games on the pitch, not in secretive votes and skullduggery. He also sees VAR decisions making sure that things are reasonably fair. He cares more about that word now than he did before. He's started playing more fairly with his brother. He doesn't want to be 'unfair, like what they did to Hearts'. You've had quite the impact, even unintentionally.

You see, Neil, an eight year old can see right through you and whoever else helped you ram through your plan back in April. You've given another kid less reason to watch Scottish football and thrown them into the embrace of the mega-leagues and their marketable 'product'. You've been found out by a kid that still talks about the last cup final as thought it was one of the most important days of his short life even though his heroes lost it. Think how many other eight year olds in this country there are who don't understand why their team is going to come out of covid-19 far more disadvantaged than the other teams. Think about that for a second. Sure, I knew the ball was burst a long time ago - and it wasn't your fault at all. But what happened in April, and the nonsense which has followed it, well, that's on you.

Whatever went on in April when you pressured clubs (and I haven't even really mentioned the pathetically transparent and surprisingly successful attempt at coercion with that Nelms chancer at Dundee) to 'call' the season before the teams had a chance discover that things 'even themselves out' and find their true position in the league over a 38-game season as we were promised at the outset, just at least tell us that you haven't played it fair. We know it. My son knows it. Telling us anything else from here on is just lying.

*Not that I'm blaming you for this, but if VAR had existed in the SPFL, the St Mirren goal should have been ruled out for offside, meaning it would have been St Mirren you'd have been shafting and some pissed off guy from Paisley typing this.


Jesus H, there are Hibby wind up merchants with waaaaayyyy too much time on their hands!

Even kickback wouldn’t fall for that schtick, would they????

[Col2]

Realistically what’s going to be in the documentation that can help their cause? If there was anything dodgy going on it won’t be in any email or letter sent between SPFL and club chairmen, so what is it they’re so excited about seeing?

I think Cagney and Lacey (Budge and Low) think they are in Suits. High stakes corporate law when in reality a couple of bitter ********s who will be banished from the game.

[JeMeSouviens]

Someone needs to remind Hearts they're in this position because they are so utterly crap at playing the game of football. Lawyers, arbiters, media and Hearts directors have taken over the asylum. Sporting performance is being challenged by some random solicitor with his own interpretation of the processes of the game. Madness that it's even got this far.

To be fair, they don’t seem to be any better at the legal stuff :wink:

[Prof. Shaggy]

Saughton Jambo

“Let’s not forget that exactly 104 years ago this week at the Somme, Hearts men kept going, refusing to give up and fighting to the end , despite their suffering. We, and I mean all of us, should honour their memory and do exactly the same. We will never give up!

Nemo me impune lacessit”
And 77 years ago today Hitler launched an assault against the Kursk salient. It didn't go well.

[marinello59]

I think they are hurting. Pleasing!


My son is eight years old. Tonight he watched Manchester City thrash Liverpool. He knew all the line ups for both teams. He knew when to shout at VAR*. A month ago, he barely knew that either existed. He was, and still is, Hearts daft. But something has changed.

When the SPFL decided to put a gun to the heads of its constituent clubs (aka shareholders - who knew?) by offering money in return for ensuring Celtic were handed their nobody-else-really-cares-in-a-row title, Scottish football changed. Sure, underneath it all things have been pretty skewed for a long time. But now it was out in the open. The big fish were to get their big feed, and access to the Champions League, while the small fry would, you thought, be content with whatever scraps were thrown their way.

My son was still on a high from watching Hearts win the last derby 3-1. We watched the goals daily. Sure, his optimism had taken a hit when we lost to St Mirren*, but we still had 24 points to play for. And despite a jaded father who has seen his team stuff things up more times than he cares to remember, for an eight year old boy, his team will always have a chance. But no, that chance was taken away from him. Similarly, it was taken away from the fans of Partick, Inverness, Dundee (ironically enough), Falkirk and Stranraer. The wee bit of magic that football gives us, by being eleven-v-eleven and on any given Saturday, etc. Your dedication to one team's needs ran roughshod over the thing that all football fans should always have: hopes and dreams for their team.

After the corrupt 'vote' you orchestrated at Easter, I tried to explain the situation to my son. Now, before you get the wrong impression, he's no saint. He cheats. Snakes and ladders, Mario Kart, water gun fights - he makes no bones about trying to defeat his younger brother and myself. He can be sleekit or he can be outrageously shameless. But when I tried to explain that the football team, the only football team he has ever cared about (and bear in mind this kid lived in Catalonia and yet doesn't give a stuff for Barcelona) were to be expelled from the top division for no apparent reason other than the administrator's desire to ensure Celtic could be handed a title that was already in the bag anyway, even he looked at me askance and said, "But that's not fair."

Sure, I tried to break down the PPG 'rule' which was invented to justify the decision. I told him how important money was. He actually gets this. He saves his pocket money to buy sale items in the Hearts shop. But still he wasn't convinced. I asked him to see it from the other clubs' point of view. He asked why they didn't like Hearts. I couldn't give him an answer. Even one of your little lickspittle lackeys, Les Gray, declared that what is going on is 'unfair'. At least admit it, Neil. Tell us that you know demoting a team four points from safety with twenty-four to play for is unfair. Ask Werder Bremen fans what they think about making up point differences.

Then, in the middle of lockdown, the Germans showed the way by playing football again (we'll skip Belarus, although I'm sure they could show you a few tricks in propaganda given their leader's Soviet-era cling-to-power-at-all-costs mentality). Then English football, which some of his friends talk about despite being Edinburgh born and bred, rave about. Until June, you see, my son had been taught to follow his local team and only his local team. He was obsessed with the Foundation of Hearts kit printed with the names of the thousands of fans that had helped keep our team alive. He loved hunting for my name. I was on minimum wage in Spain when I started paying into that fund. He loves this fact - that the people around him at Tynecastle, no matter their circumstances, had some kind of collective spirit to keep something we love alive. Please, tell us how much money you've taken out of Scottish football. Can you equate that with the value you've put in? Nobody even wants to sponsor your sham of a league.

But he still couldn't get it into his head why his team had been removed from the top league.

Now, you could call me irresponsible, but my son loves football so much (we've been out most days during lockdown playing in the Meadows) that I allowed him to stay up late to watch football from Germany, England and Spain. He asks the same question most nights, though. "Why can Hearts and the other teams not play now?" Now, I'm not going to hold you to account for the Scottish Government's decisions around contact sports and when it's safe for these to go ahead. But the bit that I do find hard to explain - perhaps you could, Neil - is why our season had to be 'called' when others are able to resume at a later date? Was there someone in your ear? Were you under pressure to twist some arms? I mean, was this an equitable solution for anyone?

My son's now watching the English Premier League every night, begging me to stay up late so he can see live football from just a few hundred miles away. He's no longer saying to his friends that they should support Hearts because you ought to support your local team. He's getting swept up in the hype and marketing that the EPL does so well. Last night I asked him if he was looking forward to seeing Hearts play again, no matter what league they play in. To be honest, he wasn't as bothered as he was a couple of months ago. He doesn't pretend to be Sean Clare or Steven Naismith now when we play. He's Mo Salah or Kevin de Bruyne or Leo Messi. He sees them playing their games on the pitch, not in secretive votes and skullduggery. He also sees VAR decisions making sure that things are reasonably fair. He cares more about that word now than he did before. He's started playing more fairly with his brother. He doesn't want to be 'unfair, like what they did to Hearts'. You've had quite the impact, even unintentionally.

You see, Neil, an eight year old can see right through you and whoever else helped you ram through your plan back in April. You've given another kid less reason to watch Scottish football and thrown them into the embrace of the mega-leagues and their marketable 'product'. You've been found out by a kid that still talks about the last cup final as thought it was one of the most important days of his short life even though his heroes lost it. Think how many other eight year olds in this country there are who don't understand why their team is going to come out of covid-19 far more disadvantaged than the other teams. Think about that for a second. Sure, I knew the ball was burst a long time ago - and it wasn't your fault at all. But what happened in April, and the nonsense which has followed it, well, that's on you.

Whatever went on in April when you pressured clubs (and I haven't even really mentioned the pathetically transparent and surprisingly successful attempt at coercion with that Nelms chancer at Dundee) to 'call' the season before the teams had a chance discover that things 'even themselves out' and find their true position in the league over a 38-game season as we were promised at the outset, just at least tell us that you haven't played it fair. We know it. My son knows it. Telling us anything else from here on is just lying.

*Not that I'm blaming you for this, but if VAR had existed in the SPFL, the St Mirren goal should have been ruled out for offside, meaning it would have been St Mirren you'd have been shafting and some pissed off guy from Paisley typing this.

Probably the biggest load of self pitying drivel ever to appear on any football forum.

[Iggy Pope]

Brilliant part of the show, great tune!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C6ZDsUGiGqM

I get annoyed and bored with today's radio presenters that need a co-host to enter in a conversation of pure drivel. Bring back the oldies like Simon; hadn't realised that he is 71, but then I'm not getting any younger.

Simon Bates was never slow to drivel as Our Tune testifies, but he did once play The Valves on daytime BBC Radio 1. Never to be forgotten. By me anyway.

[Irish_Steve]

Didn`t realise DU/RR/CR would be included in the arbitration, just thought it would be the Fartz and PT - suppose it makes sense when it`s pointed out to you lol

https://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/news/6500/JOINT-STATEMENT.html?key=dufc&utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=dundeeunitedfc

[truehibernian]

Simon Bates was never slow to drivel as Our Tune testifies, but he did once play The Valves on daytime BBC Radio 1. Never to be forgotten. By me anyway.

Nor Kid Jensen for playing The Smiths on Radio 1 Iggy :wink::greengrin

Bet you recorded the Festive 50 too :wink::aok:

[Del Boy]

Didn`t realise DU/RR/CR would be included in the arbitration, just thought it would be the Fartz and PT - suppose it makes sense when it`s pointed out to you lol

https://www.dundeeunitedfc.co.uk/news/6500/JOINT-STATEMENT.html?key=dufc&utm_campaign=coschedule&utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=dundeeunitedfc


Yeah I never realised that either, supppse they’ll just be pushing to ensure promotion and relegation aren’t overturned

[Iggy Pope]

Probably the biggest load of self pitying drivel ever to appear on any football forum.

I particularly liked the lickspittle bit and the dated Soviet reference. Pure Littlejohn. Or maybe the Male Online gadge out of ‘Viz’ but without the clever Mrs.

[weecounty hibby]

That long post that Irish Steve put up cannot be real. If it is it really just shows them to be the deluded, arrogant, morons that we all believe them to be. And the comment from the dopey conveyancer about the judge sending it to arbitration only because legally he had to. FFS he and saughton Jambo are meant to be the crack legal team as well. Fuds if the highest order

[Kato]

Saughton Jambo

“Let’s not forget that exactly 104 years ago this week at the Somme, Hearts men kept going, refusing to give up and fighting to the end , despite their suffering. We, and I mean all of us, should honour their memory and do exactly the same. We will never give up!

Nemo me impune lacessit”Relegated for being the worst team in the league and this strangehawk is ranting about WWI.

Weirder and weirder.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Berwickhibby]

Simon Bates was never slow to drivel as Our Tune testifies, but he did once play The Valves on daytime BBC Radio 1. Never to be forgotten. By me anyway.

The Valves were the best band ever to come out of Edinburgh....even though Pada and Teddy are from Lochgelly

[Irish_Steve]

That long post that Irish Steve put up cannot be real. If it is it really just shows them to be the deluded, arrogant, morons that we all believe them to be. And the comment from the dopey conveyancer about the judge sending it to arbitration only because legally he had to. FFS he and saughton Jambo are meant to be the crack legal team as well. Fuds if the highest order

Here you go - complete with replies - https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/189265-an-open-letter-to-neil-doncaster-plus-assorted-other-liars-charlatans-and-blaggards/

[Bostonhibby]

Saughton Jambo

“Let’s not forget that exactly 104 years ago this week at the Somme, Hearts men kept going, refusing to give up and fighting to the end , despite their suffering. We, and I mean all of us, should honour their memory and do exactly the same. We will never give up!

Nemo me impune lacessit”Does the Latin bit translate to

" so why the **** did we steal the poppy money then?"

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[weecounty hibby]

Here you go - complete with replies - https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/189265-an-open-letter-to-neil-doncaster-plus-assorted-other-liars-charlatans-and-blaggards/

Cheers but my antivirus won't allow that!! Honestly you guys that go over there deserve some kind of medal for bravery. I wouldn't last five minutes

[The 90+2]

😂😂

[Aldo]

They really do think they’ve won and arbitration is a formality!


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[McD]

Cheers but my antivirus won't allow that!! Honestly you guys that go over there deserve some kind of medal for bravery. I wouldn't last five minutes


you go through stages, anger, disbelief, and then you gradually realise that it’s like an alternate dimension, where common sense, humility, self awareness, and comprehension don’t exist.

Once that happens, it becomes much easier to read and be amused, rather than struggling to get your head round what they’re saying :greengrin

[Irish_Steve]

Cheers but my antivirus won't allow that!! Honestly you guys that go over there deserve some kind of medal for bravery. I wouldn't last five minutes

Just read their "Tick Tock" thread - apparently we have laid off all the backroom staff and are perilously close to going bust

Oh, and we never saw the Hibs players lift the Cup - what flipping world do they live in?

[McSwanky]

I think they are hurting. Pleasing!


My son is eight years old. Tonight he watched Manchester City thrash Liverpool. He knew all the line ups for both teams. He knew when to shout at VAR*. A month ago, he barely knew that either existed. He was, and still is, Hearts daft. But something has changed.

When the SPFL decided to put a gun to the heads of its constituent clubs (aka shareholders - who knew?) by offering money in return for ensuring Celtic were handed their nobody-else-really-cares-in-a-row title, Scottish football changed. Sure, underneath it all things have been pretty skewed for a long time. But now it was out in the open. The big fish were to get their big feed, and access to the Champions League, while the small fry would, you thought, be content with whatever scraps were thrown their way.

My son was still on a high from watching Hearts win the last derby 3-1. We watched the goals daily. Sure, his optimism had taken a hit when we lost to St Mirren*, but we still had 24 points to play for. And despite a jaded father who has seen his team stuff things up more times than he cares to remember, for an eight year old boy, his team will always have a chance. But no, that chance was taken away from him. Similarly, it was taken away from the fans of Partick, Inverness, Dundee (ironically enough), Falkirk and Stranraer. The wee bit of magic that football gives us, by being eleven-v-eleven and on any given Saturday, etc. Your dedication to one team's needs ran roughshod over the thing that all football fans should always have: hopes and dreams for their team.

After the corrupt 'vote' you orchestrated at Easter, I tried to explain the situation to my son. Now, before you get the wrong impression, he's no saint. He cheats. Snakes and ladders, Mario Kart, water gun fights - he makes no bones about trying to defeat his younger brother and myself. He can be sleekit or he can be outrageously shameless. But when I tried to explain that the football team, the only football team he has ever cared about (and bear in mind this kid lived in Catalonia and yet doesn't give a stuff for Barcelona) were to be expelled from the top division for no apparent reason other than the administrator's desire to ensure Celtic could be handed a title that was already in the bag anyway, even he looked at me askance and said, "But that's not fair."

Sure, I tried to break down the PPG 'rule' which was invented to justify the decision. I told him how important money was. He actually gets this. He saves his pocket money to buy sale items in the Hearts shop. But still he wasn't convinced. I asked him to see it from the other clubs' point of view. He asked why they didn't like Hearts. I couldn't give him an answer. Even one of your little lickspittle lackeys, Les Gray, declared that what is going on is 'unfair'. At least admit it, Neil. Tell us that you know demoting a team four points from safety with twenty-four to play for is unfair. Ask Werder Bremen fans what they think about making up point differences.

Then, in the middle of lockdown, the Germans showed the way by playing football again (we'll skip Belarus, although I'm sure they could show you a few tricks in propaganda given their leader's Soviet-era cling-to-power-at-all-costs mentality). Then English football, which some of his friends talk about despite being Edinburgh born and bred, rave about. Until June, you see, my son had been taught to follow his local team and only his local team. He was obsessed with the Foundation of Hearts kit printed with the names of the thousands of fans that had helped keep our team alive. He loved hunting for my name. I was on minimum wage in Spain when I started paying into that fund. He loves this fact - that the people around him at Tynecastle, no matter their circumstances, had some kind of collective spirit to keep something we love alive. Please, tell us how much money you've taken out of Scottish football. Can you equate that with the value you've put in? Nobody even wants to sponsor your sham of a league.

But he still couldn't get it into his head why his team had been removed from the top league.

Now, you could call me irresponsible, but my son loves football so much (we've been out most days during lockdown playing in the Meadows) that I allowed him to stay up late to watch football from Germany, England and Spain. He asks the same question most nights, though. "Why can Hearts and the other teams not play now?" Now, I'm not going to hold you to account for the Scottish Government's decisions around contact sports and when it's safe for these to go ahead. But the bit that I do find hard to explain - perhaps you could, Neil - is why our season had to be 'called' when others are able to resume at a later date? Was there someone in your ear? Were you under pressure to twist some arms? I mean, was this an equitable solution for anyone?

My son's now watching the English Premier League every night, begging me to stay up late so he can see live football from just a few hundred miles away. He's no longer saying to his friends that they should support Hearts because you ought to support your local team. He's getting swept up in the hype and marketing that the EPL does so well. Last night I asked him if he was looking forward to seeing Hearts play again, no matter what league they play in. To be honest, he wasn't as bothered as he was a couple of months ago. He doesn't pretend to be Sean Clare or Steven Naismith now when we play. He's Mo Salah or Kevin de Bruyne or Leo Messi. He sees them playing their games on the pitch, not in secretive votes and skullduggery. He also sees VAR decisions making sure that things are reasonably fair. He cares more about that word now than he did before. He's started playing more fairly with his brother. He doesn't want to be 'unfair, like what they did to Hearts'. You've had quite the impact, even unintentionally.

You see, Neil, an eight year old can see right through you and whoever else helped you ram through your plan back in April. You've given another kid less reason to watch Scottish football and thrown them into the embrace of the mega-leagues and their marketable 'product'. You've been found out by a kid that still talks about the last cup final as thought it was one of the most important days of his short life even though his heroes lost it. Think how many other eight year olds in this country there are who don't understand why their team is going to come out of covid-19 far more disadvantaged than the other teams. Think about that for a second. Sure, I knew the ball was burst a long time ago - and it wasn't your fault at all. But what happened in April, and the nonsense which has followed it, well, that's on you.

Whatever went on in April when you pressured clubs (and I haven't even really mentioned the pathetically transparent and surprisingly successful attempt at coercion with that Nelms chancer at Dundee) to 'call' the season before the teams had a chance discover that things 'even themselves out' and find their true position in the league over a 38-game season as we were promised at the outset, just at least tell us that you haven't played it fair. We know it. My son knows it. Telling us anything else from here on is just lying.

*Not that I'm blaming you for this, but if VAR had existed in the SPFL, the St Mirren goal should have been ruled out for offside, meaning it would have been St Mirren you'd have been shafting and some pissed off guy from Paisley typing this.Absolute gold. Must have taken a long time to type out with only 2 thumbs, but well worth it for comedy value!

The Hertz really are the gift that keeps giving!

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[Iggy Pope]

The Valves were the best band ever to come out of Edinburgh....even though Pada and Teddy are from Lochgelly

Lochgelly indeed. To Portobelly.

[McSwanky]

Saughton Jambo

“Let’s not forget that exactly 104 years ago this week at the Somme, Hearts men kept going, refusing to give up and fighting to the end , despite their suffering. We, and I mean all of us, should honour their memory and do exactly the same. We will never give up!

Nemo me impune lacessit”"Eius corruerunt, et ego non possum surgere."

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[HFC93]

What is Leslie Deans/Saughton Jambo saying? Always entertaining.

[truehibernian]

They really do think they’ve won and arbitration is a formality!


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They lost Aldo, as predicted, and it doesn't matter how they dress it up in 'winning' motions. They lost and the court has thrown it back to the football authorities to decide. Death by a thousand cuts, and more straws clutched than a cocktail barman at TGIs :aok: don't worry buddy :agree:

[Aldo]

They lost Aldo, as predicted, and it doesn't matter how they dress it up in 'winning' motions. They lost and the court has thrown it back to the football authorities to decide. Death by a thousand cuts, and more straws clutched than a cocktail barman at TGIs :aok: don't worry buddy :agree:

TH I know, you know probably every other fan in the country knows but they just don’t.

Let’s hope when arbitration comes they are truly out to the sword and a punishment to match!


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[truehibernian]

TH I know, you know probably every other fan in the country knows but they just don’t.

Let’s hope when arbitration comes they are truly out to the sword and a punishment to match!


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I did tell ya that it wouldn't get past the preliminary hearing :greengrin:aok:

[scm70nyd1973]

Don’t Diss the Flat Earth Society don’t you know they have members around the globe!!

😂That was one of my favourite emails - in fact it may well have been written by a Jambo

[MrSmith]

Lochgelly indeed. To Portobelly.

saw the Valves reunion gig a few years ago - venue escapes me - they were awesome and could have gone onto bigger things from there but the vocalist decided not because he lived in France. Have images somewhere.

[Aldo]

I did tell ya that it wouldn't get past the preliminary hearing :greengrin:aok:

I never doubt it for a minute tbh.

When this is finally all done I really go hope it’s in the documentary!


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[Tug Wilson]

They really do think they’ve won and arbitration is a formality!


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They seem to think that everything is a formality.

Catching St Mirren - formality

Null and void - formality

Reconstruction - formality

Court case - formality

Now Arbitration? - formality?

When will they learn?

[truehibernian]

I never doubt it for a minute tbh.

When this is finally all done I really go hope it’s in the documentary!


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So do I - especially their legal argument(s) - next series of Judge Rinder for David Thomson :greengrin:aok:

[calumhibee1]

Saughton Jambo

“Let’s not forget that exactly 104 years ago this week at the Somme, Hearts men kept going, refusing to give up and fighting to the end , despite their suffering. We, and I mean all of us, should honour their memory and do exactly the same. We will never give up!

Nemo me impune lacessit”

Hahahahaha

[WeAreHibs]

Does anybody else have the tune to DLT's our tune going through their head when they read this

I've got Simon Bates version 😉

[Aldo]

They seem to think that everything is a formality.

Catching St Mirren - formality

Null and void - formality

Reconstruction - formality

Court case - formality

Now Arbitration? - formality?

When will they learn?

No they won’t and never will.

And can I just add it was reconstruction x3 I think!


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[Berwickhibby]

Lochgelly indeed. To Portobelly.

Ain't no surf there

[Aldo]

So do I - especially their legal argument(s) - next series of Judge Rinder for David Thomson :greengrin:aok:

Will also look forward to their punishment for taking the SPFL to court!


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[Springbank]

Can we take a moment to celebrate Mr Borland, QC for Dundee Utd and Raith, and Cove.

Darts (bullseye)
Television (bullseye)
Legals (bullseye)

And bully's special prize?
❤Relegation❤

🐂👁🎯🖥

[truehibernian]

They seem to think that everything is a formality.

Catching St Mirren - formality

Null and void - formality

Reconstruction - formality

Court case - formality

Now Arbitration? - formality?

When will they learn?

The only formality of being a Hearts fan (I've found) is arrogance, delusions of grandeur, and a blood type of Jacob's Creek :agree:

[Berwickhibby]

saw the Valves reunion gig a few years ago - venue escapes me - they were awesome and could have gone onto bigger things from there but the vocalist decided not because he lived in France. Have images somewhere.

They are still giging with Joe Donkin fromerly of the Cheatahs on vocals.

[malcolm]

Does the Latin bit translate to

" so why the **** did we steal the poppy money then?"

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I translated ‘Nemo me impune lacessit’ as ‘me and the submariner make a mess in our lacy underwear’ but I’m no good at Latin :greengrin

[Iggy Pope]

They are still giging with Joe Donkin fromerly of the Cheatahs on vocals.

Radioactive is in my all time 10 non hot singles.

[Iggy Pope]

Ain't no surf there

:greengrin

[Winston Ingram]

https://twitter.com/jkbmeltdown/status/1279152479637250049?s=21

This was Saughton Jambo😂

[Iggy Pope]

saw the Valves reunion gig a few years ago - venue escapes me - they were awesome and could have gone onto bigger things from there but the vocalist decided not because he lived in France. Have images somewhere.

Liquid Rooms?

[PatHead]

If it is such a success, why did they not just go straight to arbitration rather than wasting 3 days in court and running up legal bills for themselves?

[FilipinoHibs]

He had the same people on here, people that are ****ting themselves just now about Hearts squeaking out of this, creaming themselves about Hearts certain extinction. A galoot.
I know maybe about 5 proper Hearts fans well. They all adore him because he is a Hibby.

He claimed he had inside knowledge of what was happening in Lithuania. It proved not to be a good source and ended with egg on his face

[Cat Stanton]

Pedantic point, it was Simon Bates

Yes, and you have to be careful: you really don't want to get confuse your 1970s/80s BBC DJs...

[brog]

If it is such a success, why did they not just go straight to arbitration rather than wasting 3 days in court and running up legal bills for themselves?

Exactly this. All their arguments in court were that this was a company law matter, not a football one and that going to arbitration would not provide the expertise necessary to deal with this complex issue. They were desperate to avoid arbitration, they lost!

[007]

I think they are hurting. Pleasing!


My son is eight years old. Tonight he watched Manchester City thrash Liverpool. He knew all the line ups for both teams. He knew when to shout at VAR*. A month ago, he barely knew that either existed. He was, and still is, Hearts daft. But something has changed.

When the SPFL decided to put a gun to the heads of its constituent clubs (aka shareholders - who knew?) by offering money in return for ensuring Celtic were handed their nobody-else-really-cares-in-a-row title, Scottish football changed. Sure, underneath it all things have been pretty skewed for a long time. But now it was out in the open. The big fish were to get their big feed, and access to the Champions League, while the small fry would, you thought, be content with whatever scraps were thrown their way.

My son was still on a high from watching Hearts win the last derby 3-1. We watched the goals daily. Sure, his optimism had taken a hit when we lost to St Mirren*, but we still had 24 points to play for. And despite a jaded father who has seen his team stuff things up more times than he cares to remember, for an eight year old boy, his team will always have a chance. But no, that chance was taken away from him. Similarly, it was taken away from the fans of Partick, Inverness, Dundee (ironically enough), Falkirk and Stranraer. The wee bit of magic that football gives us, by being eleven-v-eleven and on any given Saturday, etc. Your dedication to one team's needs ran roughshod over the thing that all football fans should always have: hopes and dreams for their team.

After the corrupt 'vote' you orchestrated at Easter, I tried to explain the situation to my son. Now, before you get the wrong impression, he's no saint. He cheats. Snakes and ladders, Mario Kart, water gun fights - he makes no bones about trying to defeat his younger brother and myself. He can be sleekit or he can be outrageously shameless. But when I tried to explain that the football team, the only football team he has ever cared about (and bear in mind this kid lived in Catalonia and yet doesn't give a stuff for Barcelona) were to be expelled from the top division for no apparent reason other than the administrator's desire to ensure Celtic could be handed a title that was already in the bag anyway, even he looked at me askance and said, "But that's not fair."

Sure, I tried to break down the PPG 'rule' which was invented to justify the decision. I told him how important money was. He actually gets this. He saves his pocket money to buy sale items in the Hearts shop. But still he wasn't convinced. I asked him to see it from the other clubs' point of view. He asked why they didn't like Hearts. I couldn't give him an answer. Even one of your little lickspittle lackeys, Les Gray, declared that what is going on is 'unfair'. At least admit it, Neil. Tell us that you know demoting a team four points from safety with twenty-four to play for is unfair. Ask Werder Bremen fans what they think about making up point differences.

Then, in the middle of lockdown, the Germans showed the way by playing football again (we'll skip Belarus, although I'm sure they could show you a few tricks in propaganda given their leader's Soviet-era cling-to-power-at-all-costs mentality). Then English football, which some of his friends talk about despite being Edinburgh born and bred, rave about. Until June, you see, my son had been taught to follow his local team and only his local team. He was obsessed with the Foundation of Hearts kit printed with the names of the thousands of fans that had helped keep our team alive. He loved hunting for my name. I was on minimum wage in Spain when I started paying into that fund. He loves this fact - that the people around him at Tynecastle, no matter their circumstances, had some kind of collective spirit to keep something we love alive. Please, tell us how much money you've taken out of Scottish football. Can you equate that with the value you've put in? Nobody even wants to sponsor your sham of a league.

But he still couldn't get it into his head why his team had been removed from the top league.

Now, you could call me irresponsible, but my son loves football so much (we've been out most days during lockdown playing in the Meadows) that I allowed him to stay up late to watch football from Germany, England and Spain. He asks the same question most nights, though. "Why can Hearts and the other teams not play now?" Now, I'm not going to hold you to account for the Scottish Government's decisions around contact sports and when it's safe for these to go ahead. But the bit that I do find hard to explain - perhaps you could, Neil - is why our season had to be 'called' when others are able to resume at a later date? Was there someone in your ear? Were you under pressure to twist some arms? I mean, was this an equitable solution for anyone?

My son's now watching the English Premier League every night, begging me to stay up late so he can see live football from just a few hundred miles away. He's no longer saying to his friends that they should support Hearts because you ought to support your local team. He's getting swept up in the hype and marketing that the EPL does so well. Last night I asked him if he was looking forward to seeing Hearts play again, no matter what league they play in. To be honest, he wasn't as bothered as he was a couple of months ago. He doesn't pretend to be Sean Clare or Steven Naismith now when we play. He's Mo Salah or Kevin de Bruyne or Leo Messi. He sees them playing their games on the pitch, not in secretive votes and skullduggery. He also sees VAR decisions making sure that things are reasonably fair. He cares more about that word now than he did before. He's started playing more fairly with his brother. He doesn't want to be 'unfair, like what they did to Hearts'. You've had quite the impact, even unintentionally.

You see, Neil, an eight year old can see right through you and whoever else helped you ram through your plan back in April. You've given another kid less reason to watch Scottish football and thrown them into the embrace of the mega-leagues and their marketable 'product'. You've been found out by a kid that still talks about the last cup final as thought it was one of the most important days of his short life even though his heroes lost it. Think how many other eight year olds in this country there are who don't understand why their team is going to come out of covid-19 far more disadvantaged than the other teams. Think about that for a second. Sure, I knew the ball was burst a long time ago - and it wasn't your fault at all. But what happened in April, and the nonsense which has followed it, well, that's on you.

Whatever went on in April when you pressured clubs (and I haven't even really mentioned the pathetically transparent and surprisingly successful attempt at coercion with that Nelms chancer at Dundee) to 'call' the season before the teams had a chance discover that things 'even themselves out' and find their true position in the league over a 38-game season as we were promised at the outset, just at least tell us that you haven't played it fair. We know it. My son knows it. Telling us anything else from here on is just lying.

*Not that I'm blaming you for this, but if VAR had existed in the SPFL, the St Mirren goal should have been ruled out for offside, meaning it would have been St Mirren you'd have been shafting and some pissed off guy from Paisley typing this.

Sounds like a selfish pr**k and unfortunately for his son, he's being brought up to be the same.

As for why the league had to be called early when the likes of the German and English leagues are playing out the season. I can't believe there are still football fans out there that are too stupid to get it (just like the Rangers fans who keep phoning in to Superscoreboard with the same complaint).

The Scottish government only gave permission 5 weeks ago for the 1st of August to be pencilled in for the 1st matches to be played. UEFA want leagues that are playing to a finish to be completed by the end of July and the league's governing bodies had to tell UEFA by the 25th of May whether they were going to play to a conclusion or call the leagues. Even if it wasn't going to cost an absolute fortune, like it is costing the EPL, Bundesliga etc (which we don't have) to finish the season, how could we have told UEFA we were going to play the season to a finish when at that time, 25th May, we had no idea when football would be allowed? Also, how would we have finished within the UEFA timescale? Idiot (Not you Irish Steve).

[FranckSuzy]

They seem to think that everything is a formality.

Catching St Mirren - formality

Null and void - formality

Reconstruction - formality

Court case - formality

Now Arbitration? - formality?

When will they learn?

Fifth Round, Scottish Cup 2016 - formality

[MrSmith]

They are still giging with Joe Donkin fromerly of the Cheatahs on vocals.

Yep saw them at the Depot with him fronting. Very good but not same for me unfortunately.

[MrSmith]

Liquid Rooms?

I think so.

[Berwickhibby]

Yep saw them at the Depot with him fronting. Very good but not same for me unfortunately.

Yeah Dave or Dee Robot as he was known back in the day is a better front man

[green with envy]

Liquid Rooms?

Was Adolf really a piss artist? Oh the memories, I remember buying this from Bruce's records - Rose st as a 15 year old in '77.

[poolman]

Saughton Jambo

“Let’s not forget that exactly 104 years ago this week at the Somme, Hearts men kept going, refusing to give up and fighting to the end , despite their suffering. We, and I mean all of us, should honour their memory and do exactly the same. We will never give up!

Nemo me impune lacessit”


Words fail and all that

Not sure who's the biggest walloper over there, SJ or Kiwidung 🤔

[04Sauzee]

Yes, and you have to be careful: you really don't want to get confuse your 1970s/80s BBC DJs...

Now then now then

[Andy74]

I'm sure Andy has said that the documentation wont make a difference and they were told that in court by the leagues QC

The SPFL were largely concerned about the risk of commercially sensitive information such as details of the Sky deal being leaked. They also didn’t think it was appropriate for details of the promoted clubs spending to be available to competitors. They referenced Hearts stealing their manager.

There was little concern over documents from the vote. Minutes, board papers etc were in the Rangers dossier. All the info on the Dundee vote was conceded.

None of it will make any difference to the legal points in the petition.

Most of what was asked for would be more relevant to level of damages. Which they aren’t going to get.

It certainly wasn’t a discussion about some earth shattering documents that were going to shed light on any aspects of the case.

[Del Boy]

The SPFL were largely concerned about the risk of commercially sensitive information such as details of the Sky deal being leaked. They also didn’t think it was appropriate for details of the promoted clubs spending to be available to competitors. They referenced Hearts stealing their manager.

There was little concern over documents from the vote. Minutes, board papers etc were in the Rangers dossier. All the info on the Dundee vote was conceded.

None of it will make any difference to the legal points in the petition.

Most of what was asked for would be more relevant to level of damages. Which they aren’t going to get.

It certainly wasn’t a discussion about some earth shattering documents that were going to shed light on any aspects of the case.

Why do Hearts etc want to see the promoted clubs spending?

[green day]

This is what a PTFC fan (Woodstock Jag) who is fairly clued up thinks might happen - he has always been of the opinion that the court case would fail, for pretty much the same reasons as Andy74.

https://www.wearethistle.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/14049-court-it-is-then/page/51/&tab=comments#comment-355559

Arbitration doesn't have to lead to the parties agreeing on an outcome.


Arbitration principally facilitates one of two possible outcomes:


(a) a mutually agreed settlement; or


(b) a decision of the arbitration panel which both parties are bound by even if one doesn't like it


An ex gratia payment would form part of scenario (a).


I still think in the absence of (a) we will lose on (b). For us then to take it back to the Court of Session we have to be challenging the integrity/process of the arbitration itself, not the substance of the disagreement.


As best I understand Lord Clark's remarks about going back to the Court of Session, he meant that in the context of if one side prevaricates during arbitration, such that no determination is reached by August. That's not the same thing as no agreement being reached by August. We could see an adverse determination at arbitration within a month.

[Andy74]

There’s some absolute belters on kickback tonight, one of them is now claiming that the judge said they did the right thing taking it to court! That’ll be why he’s kicked it back to the SFA??:rolleyes:

Not how it happened. It was a reference to whether Hearts should have begun the action straight after the vote. The judge said that he understood with reconstruction on the table and the SPFL facilitating this why they didn’t go straight to court when that option was still possible.

His judgement was very clear that it should not have been referred to court without the permission of the SFA.

[Sammy7nil]

Relegated for being the worst team in the league and this strangehawk is ranting about WWI.

Weirder and weirder.

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YiP over one million dead and a squabble over the worst team in the league being relegated very similar issues. :rolleyes:

[Andy74]

Why do Hearts etc want to see the promoted clubs spending?

We haven’t seen the detail of the clubs’ answers and the document requests would have had some link to that. From what I could follow from not seeing the docs Hearts had asked for documented proof that the promoted clubs had already made investments in their facilities and squads on the basis of already having been promoted.

It would have been relevant to damages claim.

Pretty low that these clubs are being dragged into justify all this, and fund the process, by a club who were going down anyway at a time when cash is tight.

[Andy74]

This is what a PTFC fan (Woodstock Jag) who is fairly clued up thinks might happen - he has always been of the opinion that the court case would fail, for pretty much the same reasons as Andy74.

https://www.wearethistle.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/14049-court-it-is-then/page/51/&tab=comments#comment-355559

Arbitration doesn't have to lead to the parties agreeing on an outcome.


Arbitration principally facilitates one of two possible outcomes:


(a) a mutually agreed settlement; or


(b) a decision of the arbitration panel which both parties are bound by even if one doesn't like it


An ex gratia payment would form part of scenario (a).


I still think in the absence of (a) we will lose on (b). For us then to take it back to the Court of Session we have to be challenging the integrity/process of the arbitration itself, not the substance of the disagreement.


As best I understand Lord Clark's remarks about going back to the Court of Session, he meant that in the context of if one side prevaricates during arbitration, such that no determination is reached by August. That's not the same thing as no agreement being reached by August. We could see an adverse determination at arbitration within a month.

The last paragraph isn’t right. The going to court thing was only if the arbitration couldn’t be arranged at all, or SPFL changed their minds, not if the process wasn’t going well.

He’s right on prospect of appeal to court. Could only be on any error in law.

[Del Boy]

This is what a PTFC fan (Woodstock Jag) who is fairly clued up thinks might happen - he has always been of the opinion that the court case would fail, for pretty much the same reasons as Andy74.

https://www.wearethistle.co.uk/forums/index.php?/topic/14049-court-it-is-then/page/51/&tab=comments#comment-355559

Arbitration doesn't have to lead to the parties agreeing on an outcome.


Arbitration principally facilitates one of two possible outcomes:


(a) a mutually agreed settlement; or


(b) a decision of the arbitration panel which both parties are bound by even if one doesn't like it


An ex gratia payment would form part of scenario (a).


I still think in the absence of (a) we will lose on (b). For us then to take it back to the Court of Session we have to be challenging the integrity/process of the arbitration itself, not the substance of the disagreement.


As best I understand Lord Clark's remarks about going back to the Court of Session, he meant that in the context of if one side prevaricates during arbitration, such that no determination is reached by August. That's not the same thing as no agreement being reached by August. We could see an adverse determination at arbitration within a month.

Had a wee look at his comments and he seems to have a much better understanding than the majority. I note that the make up of the independent tribunal panel was always going to be as outlined by Lord Clark today, lot of Jambos seem to think that this was a decision made at today’s hearing.

[bingo70]

We haven’t seen the detail of the clubs’ answers and the document requests would have had some link to that. From what I could follow from not seeing the docs Hearts had asked for documented proof that the promoted clubs had already made investments in their facilities and squads on the basis of already having been promoted.

It would have been relevant to damages claim.

Pretty low that these clubs are being dragged into justify all this, and fund the process, by a club who were going down anyway at a time when cash is tight.

Thing is, would it need to be a significant amount for it to be relevant?

Assuming Dundee United have started pre-season training, any adjustments to their training facilities or bringing staff back off furlough earlier than the championship clubs would still show a level of investment from being promoted, why is that relevant to Hearts?

I get them trying to screw the SPFL for money, even if I don’t agree with it, trying to stop Dundee Utd from being promoted is very poor form though and flies in the face of any sort of sportsmanship. I’d be really disappointed in Hibs going down this route.

[FilipinoHibs]

Was Adolf really a piss artist? Oh the memories, I remember buying this from Bruce's records - Rose st as a 15 year old in '77.

Saw them in 70s in a place off Candlemaker Row. Reviewed the gig for a student newspaper.

[007]

That long post that Irish Steve put up cannot be real. If it is it really just shows them to be the deluded, arrogant, morons that we all believe them to be. And the comment from the dopey conveyancer about the judge sending it to arbitration only because legally he had to. FFS he and saughton Jambo are meant to be the crack legal team as well. Fuds if the highest order

It's a shame the legal eagle Leslie Deans didn't tell Ann Budge before the 17th of June that legally they had to go to arbitration instead of him waiting until after today's proceedings to say so. Even those of us without his 40+ years of legal experience thought that was the case. From that comment of his he makes it sound like he already knew this so he has let them down in a big way by keeping it to himself because now they've made themselves liable to expulsion / a £1m fine. Thanks Leslie for not letting on and allowing Hearts to make another major cock up.

[madhatter]

Cant decide if this "we're no going doon" unflushable narrative is more entertaining than a sudden "Hearts are doon"...

Tedious narrative but enjoyable for what it is.

Shame they'll likely get a donation from Anderson for being a "community" club to help them through the inevitable relegation. Hats off to Budge, she has Hearts fans funding her mismanagement with gleeful ignorance. Effortless misdirection, "its everyone else's fault we were rubbish all season, gees us more money". The "let us fight for you" sounds like it was taken out of The Rangers' book of staunchness. Community club...

[G B Young]

I just took from it that his son is a cheat. No surprise there.

:greengrin

I'd hazard a guess he/she doesn't even have a son. No eight year old thinks that way unless brainwashed by their parent.

[FilipinoHibs]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/18560462.next-hearts-partick-thistle-spfl-dispute-referred-sfa/?ref=appshr

[EskbankHibby]

Saughton Jambo

“Let’s not forget that exactly 104 years ago this week at the Somme, Hearts men kept going, refusing to give up and fighting to the end , despite their suffering. We, and I mean all of us, should honour their memory and do exactly the same. We will never give up!

Nemo me impune lacessit”

Please tell me this is not for real?

This is back to the absolute worst of the Romanov days where they attempt to conflate the actual, enormous struggle of a group of unbelievably brave men with the present day cluster**** of mismanagement of a football club and associated sense of entitlement of their supporters.

What an absolute disgrace.

Shame on them.

[theonlywayisup]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/18560462.next-hearts-partick-thistle-spfl-dispute-referred-sfa/?ref=appshr

WE are inching ever closer to the legal dispute between Hearts/Partick Thistle and the SPFL being resolved, but we are not quite there yet.

During Friday's virtual meeting of the Court of Session, Lord Clark ruled that the matter must be arbitrated by the Scottish FA’s judicial panel – and not in open court, as the two relegated clubs were advocating.

Lord Clark made his decision after hearing three days of submissions from a trio of lawyers: one representing Hearts and Thistle; another representing the three promoted clubs – Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers; and a third appearing on behalf of the SPFL.

So, what was decided?

In a nutshell, the dispute is set to rumble on for a while yet. After listening to arguments from the three QCs, Lord Clark ruled that the matter falls within the SFA’s jurisdiction and has now granted a cist order for the national association to carry out its own arbitration process.

The court heard from Garry Borland QC, representing the three promoted clubs, and Gerry Moynihan QC, on behalf of the SPFL, that under the SFA articles of association there was no legal basis for the matter to be brought to the Court of Session. Article 99 states that no club can begin legal action without express permission from the SFA.

David Thomson QC, who represented Hearts and Thistle, argued that the SFA articles of association were not incorporated by the SPFL and as a result, there was a legal basis for his clients to bring the dispute before the court but Lord Clark disagreed.

“I don’t accept the submission from Hearts and Partick Thistle that there is nothing in the SPFL’s articles of association which refers this matter to arbitration,” he said. “Hearts and Partick Thistle are contractually obliged to comply with the SPFL’s rules.

“By virtue of rule B4 of the SPFL’s rules, Hearts and Partick Thistle have to comply with the SFA’s articles of association.”

Borland had put forward a motion for the case to be dismissed in its entirety but this was refused by Lord Clark.

Additionally, Lord Clark ruled that a separate motion advanced by Thomson – that documents related to Dundee’s controversial missing ballot from the vote to curtail the 2019/20 season should be uncovered so that the independent SFA judicial panel have full and proper disclosure – was granted: something that Moynihan was strongly opposed to, citing grounds of confidentiality.

Lord Clark added that he “would prefer to have the issues aired in open court” due to the public interest in the case but “as a matter of law, the parties agreed to the terms of the SFA articles of association”, thereby ruling that the dispute must be settled by the SFA.

What happens next?

The case has now been referred to the SFA, who will carry out their own arbitration process to settle the dispute. With the Premiership scheduled to return on August 1, Lord Clark outlined his expectation that the matter would be concluded by then.

The question of whether Hearts and Thistle were victims to ‘unfair prejudice’ - the crux of the pair's argument - “can be determined by arbitration”, Lord Clark said.

A three-person independent judicial panel will be set up and the dispute will be settled by them.

Who’s on the judicial panel?

Article 99 of the SFA’s articles of association says that the two parties – Hearts/Thistle and the SPFL – will each nominate an individual from the tribunal candidate list as its arbitrator, and these two people will appoint a third arbitrator from a legal background who will act as chairman.

“The SFA itself will not judge the issue in the arbitration,” Lord Clark explained. “The independent arbitral tribunal will be presided over by an experienced lawyer or a member of the judiciary.”

He added that the tribunal may be required to obtain evidence from witnesses and said that “if required, the court can make appropriate orders in that regard”.

What happens if Hearts and Thistle win?

There are two possible outcomes here. The first is that the panel agree with the two clubs’ position and their relegations to the second and third tiers respectively are overturned, but this would prove highly controversial. After clubs voted overwhelmingly against league reconstruction, it does not appear as though this remains a viable outcome – in which case, Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers would not be promoted from their divisions despite being crowned champions.

The other possibility is that Hearts and Thistle are consigned to relegation but receive some form of financial compensation from the SPFL. The precise figure that the clubs could be awarded will be down to the discretion of the panel and will be based on the loss of earnings brought about from their relegations, with Hearts reportedly asking for £8m and Thistle looking for £2m.

What happens if they lose?

Not too much, in all likelihood. Hearts will compete in the Championship and Thistle will be in League One for the upcoming campaign, both of which will run on a reduced 27-game calendar. However, it is possible that the two sides could face financial penalties.

It has previously been suggested that the two clubs could face expulsion from the SFA for taking the SPFL to court without the governing body’s permission, with Moynihan pointing out to Lord Clark that this was the maximum penalty available.

However, Lord Clark said that it was is view that such a punishment could be deemed unlawful.

He said: “In my opinion, the existence of that potential penalty – which includes expulsion or as Mr Moynihan put it, ‘being put out of the game’ – is a factor that has to be considered when analysing the lawfulness or otherwise of Article 99.15.

“The issue of penalties could itself be subject of the supervisory jurisdiction of the court.”

[greenpaper55]

It's not good that the law has now stepped in and deemed it unlawful to expel a club from a league, since when did law lords start to run a football league ? Clubs should all resign but not invite that **** back in !

[hibbyfraelibby]

Ooh, here we goes, SL has summoned up the spirit of Leslie Deans


To All. We have NOT lost. The motion to dismiss our case was refused. It was only sent to arbitration as Lord Clark stated he was legally obliged to do so. The arbitration will be chaired by an independent senior lawyer and could well end up being referred back to the court. I rather suspect Lord Clark will be watching this like a hawk. Finally he ordered all the dodgy documents, emails etc between SPFL and Dundee and others to be produced. Goodness knows what all that may disclose and how much that may help our case.
. You might say we're 1-0 down at half time.
Les

1-0 down at half time? But big Budgie was claiming she won 2-1. Jeez it must just be October🙃

[Greenworld]

It's not good that the law has now stepped in and deemed it unlawful to expel a club from a league, since when did law lords start to run a football league ? Clubs should all resign but not invite that **** back in !I agree its almost like ok the panel can do there bit and if i dont like it ill step in

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[Ozyhibby]

Talk of expelling Hearts is nonsense. It just won’t happen. There will be a slap on the wrist. A small fine to cover legal costs. That’s it. And that’s about right as well. The main thing is they will stay relegated and we pay them no money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jack]

It's not good that the law has now stepped in and deemed it unlawful to expel a club from a league, since when did law lords start to run a football league ? Clubs should all resign but not invite that **** back in !

The law is merely pointing out that the SFA rule is likely to unlawful. As it would be if the rules of a gun club said jambos should be shot on sight.

On the face of it the gun club rule seems perfectly reasonable however it would still be considered as murder under the laws of the land.

[Crazyhorse]

Saughton Jambo

“Let’s not forget that exactly 104 years ago this week at the Somme, Hearts men kept going, refusing to give up and fighting to the end , despite their suffering. We, and I mean all of us, should honour their memory and do exactly the same. We will never give up!

Nemo me impune lacessit”

The argument from false analogy seems beloved by the jambos plums.
I still can’t believe this joker is a Hearts supporter. I’m only going by what’s posted on here but his statements always seem to be a huge piss take.

[Brightside]

The law is merely pointing out that the SFA rule is likely to unlawful. As it would be if the rules of a gun club said jambos should be shot on sight.

On the face of it the gun club rule seems perfectly reasonable however it would still be considered as murder under the laws of the land.

It’s just common sense.

[Since452]

Hearts and their fans are now in clutching at straws territory. I've actually got a beamer for them. There is not going to be any earth shattering revelations from the documents. Remember Rangers 200 page dossier of evidence?

[Future17]

The law is merely pointing out that the SFA rule is likely to unlawful. As it would be if the rules of a gun club said jambos should be shot on sight.

On the face of it the gun club rule seems perfectly reasonable however it would still be considered as murder under the laws of the land.

Any comments from Lord Clark on disciplinary action against Hearts were ultra vires. It remains an option for the SFA.

[CropleyWasGod]

Any comments from Lord Clark on disciplinary action against Hearts were ultra vires. It remains an option for the SFA.

It is an option that, if exercised, would almost certainly be tested in Court.

Has any member of the SFA (from any level) ever had their membership revoked? If so, the SFA would have precedent on their side.

[MrSmith]

Talk of expelling Hearts is nonsense. It just won’t happen. There will be a slap on the wrist. A small fine to cover legal costs. That’s it. And that’s about right as well. The main thing is they will stay relegated and we pay them no money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

100% the correct way of travel. Anything else would be futile.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Hearts and their fans are now in clutching at straws territory. I've actually got a beamer for them. There is not going to be any earth shattering revelations from the documents. Remember Rangers 200 page dossier of evidence?

:agree: exactly - there’s no way anyone would be daft enough to have written down anything dodgy or “illegal” surely?

[Since90+2]

Hearts are not going to be expelled, that's never going to happen.

And if I'm being honest I'd prefer that they weren't , they are providing us with great laughs at the moment and watching them play in the wee league will be even funnier.

#weeteamweeleague

[jeffers]

Hearts are not going to be expelled, that's never going to happen.

And if I'm being honest I'd prefer that they weren't , they are providing us with great laughs at the moment and watching them play in the wee league will be even funnier.

#weeteamweeleague

The way they have conducted themselves during these past few months being expelled is exactly what they deserve. I don't expect it to happen either, but the SFA should be able to do it without a court overturning that decision. Imagine if they won their ludicrous claim for £8M, the implications that would have on Scottish football.

[Jim44]

:ostrich::jamboclow:ostrich::jamboclow:ostrich:

I think I can honestly say that if the shoe was on the other foot and we were being continually bombarded by the ultra-blinkered, inaccurate straw-clutching drivel of the self appointed ITKers and legal eagles of KB, you wouldn’t see me for smoke on this message board. Being led by the nose by pink intelligentsia is surely more depressing than the reality of relegation and it’s implications.

[MrSmith]

The way they have conducted themselves during these past few months being expelled is exactly what they deserve. I don't expect it to happen either, but the SFA should be able to do it without a court overturning that decision. Imagine if they won their ludicrous claim for £8M, the implications that would have on Scottish football.

good point 👍 a transfer ban and points deduction plus payment of all costs relating to there futile actions.

[Sammy7nil]

Can someone please explain the arbitration process.

I assume unlike a court all proceedings are held in private?
Are proceedings based on SfA articles or will they still be considering company law?
The panel can call witnesses will their testimony be made public
Will their be a written publicly available record of all proceedings or just the final decision?

I don't know what smoking documents Hearts hope to find I am quite sure ND did not type up his phone conversations.

[matty_f]

:agree: exactly - there’s no way anyone would be daft enough to have written down anything dodgy or “illegal” surely?

Exactly. The other thing to remember about the Dundee vote that has been lost since the conversation centred on Hearts going down, is why the vote was necessary.

The vote was put on the table because it was evident that the league could not be played to its natural conclusion. There was nothing prejudicial about that situation, it was solely down to Covid 19. With hindsight, the fact that teams are only just now being allowed contact training ahead of a new season starting in a few weeks’ time shows this to be the correct decision.

UEFA insisted that any titles, European places, and relegation should happen based on sporting merit. Again, nothing unduly prejudicial there. The SPFL has the option to call the season using the placings as they stood. This was potentially prejudicial because not every team has completed the same number of fixtures (Partick being a case in point).

So, to avoid being prejudicial, a points per game system was used. This benefited some teams (St Johnstone, for example) and hindered others (us, for example) but it took away the unfairness of inequalities in matches played.

The vote was never for Celtic’s title win to be forced through or for any relegations to be unfairly applied, the vote was to come to a practical resolution to finish the season.

So, when it comes to the conduct of teams at that vote. Dundee evidently submitted their vote against the motion to end the season and latterly changed their mind. This, as has been pointed out many times now, is something they were entitled to do.

The SPFL were also entitled to lobby clubs to pass the resolution, given the impact of that resolution failing, IT really was incumbent on them to do so.

Dundee wanted reconstruction on the table, the media seemed to pick up that Dundee got this scenario on the back of changing their vote - i.e. they negotiated with the SPFL for that outcome in return for backing the resolution.

This isn’t actually the case. A consultation/review of reconstruction was already in the resolution from day one. If it passed, it was always the case that reconstruction would be discussed.

There’s nothing dodgy at play here. If you’re not Hearts and can step back to see what actually happened, prejudice and wishing a bad outcome on a few particular clubs was never the intention behind any of the votes or resolutions. Promotion and relegation is a fundamental part of league football, with only 8 matches left it was entirely right that both should occur - denying Dundee United promotion would have been as unjust as relegating Hearts, in fact more so as all the evidence points to United winning that league and Hearts being relegated from the top flight should the season have played out based on their respective form over the course of the season.

I would think the SPFL are completely comfortable sharing documents about it, their concern was around the competitive nature of disclosing financial documents between rival clubs. They’ve not got a huge skeleton in the closet that they’re losing sleep over.

[ScottB]

Hearts are not going to be expelled, that's never going to happen.

And if I'm being honest I'd prefer that they weren't , they are providing us with great laughs at the moment and watching them play in the wee league will be even funnier.

#weeteamweeleague

I don’t see it happening unless they throw a tantrum after losing arbitration, try and go back to the courts / drag the whole game into disrepute etc. At that point a much more harsher sanction would be required. Whether that would go as far as expulsion, who knows, but it’ll come down on how they react to any outcome they don’t like.

[MrSmith]

Can someone please explain the arbitration process.

I assume unlike a court all proceedings are held in private?
Are proceedings based on SfA articles or will they still be considering company law?
The panel can call witnesses will their testimony be made public
Will their be a written publicly available record of all proceedings or just the final decision?

I don't know what smoking documents Hearts hope to find I am quite sure ND did not type up his phone conversations.

if indeed all related documents were fully scrutinised by Deloitte, the SPFL has nothing to worry about. I took from the SPFLs lawyer that the reason for objecting to the release was due to previous highly sensitive documents finding their way onto social media platforms. I shot across Budges bow for me.

[Sammy7nil]

Good post Matty

I appreciate this is a guess but what do you see the final out come being

Status Quo Hearts relegated put back in their box?
Enhanced parachute payment?
Disciplinary action taken against Hearts?

[RoYO!]

There is absolutely no chance they should be getting off scot free. Not even close.

It would open the door for further non-founded, bombastic actions, with fans baying for "take em to court" at every turn.

They know the rules, they've been reminded of the rules and they've continually thrown them back in everyone's faces. Now a judge has also informed them that it is a football matter.

Can't just let it slide to get it over with.

[007]

Hearts are not going to be expelled, that's never going to happen.

And if I'm being honest I'd prefer that they weren't , they are providing us with great laughs at the moment and watching them play in the wee league will be even funnier.

#weeteamweeleague

The SFA don't need to expel them, just use the threat of it in the same way Hearts keep threatening the interim interdict but it in reality won't actually apply for it (unless they're more stupid than I thought, which is a possibility).

[Sammy7nil]

There is absolutely no chance they should be getting off scot free. Not even close.

It would open the door for further non-founded, bombastic actions, with fans baying for "take em to court" at every turn.

They know the rules, they've been reminded of the rules and they've continually thrown them back in everyone's faces. Now a judge has also informed them that it is a football matter.

Can't just let it slide to get it over with.

I don't disagree but I think the SFA will just want this to end with Hearts back in their box and no more court action against punishments.

[green day]

There is absolutely no chance they should be getting off scot free. Not even close.

It would open the door for further non-founded, bombastic actions, with fans baying for "take em to court" at every turn.

They know the rules, they've been reminded of the rules and they've continually thrown them back in everyone's faces. Now a judge has also informed them that it is a football matter.

Can't just let it slide to get it over with.

It has already been established by the CoS yesterday that the SFA arbitration process is the correct route for football related disputes.

If the SFA finds against Hearts/PTFC, then they will have to pay some costs but expelling them or a massive fine would actually - and correctly - land back in the courts as it seems overly penal.

If they lose they will mostly just be laughed at.

[Irish_Steve]

I agree, some sort of punishment/sanction is required to act as deterrent for other teams heading to the courts. To be honest, it doesn't have to be too punitive, just a warning shot from the SFA. It would have to be something that "hurts" Hearts, there is no point in finding them as Benny Factor will just pay it, a points deduction would be better

[Eyrie]

It has already been established by the CoS yesterday that the SFA arbitration process is the correct route for football related disputes.

If the SFA finds against Hearts/PTFC, then they will have to pay some costs but expelling them or a massive fine would actually - and correctly - land back in the courts as it seems overly penal.

If they lose they will mostly just be laughed at.

So a smaller fine would be acceptable. After all, the court has just confirmed that Hearts should have used the SFA arbitration process and not gone to court.

A fair amount would be the other 50% of the SPFL's legal fees and the whole £50k that Dundee United et al are out of pocket.

[Jim44]

I don't disagree but I think the SFA will just want this to end with Hearts back in their box and no more court action against punishments.

:agree: At the end of the day, the SFA and the SPFL would prefer to have Hearts as a compliant member of top tier football, with the benefits of what a big support and potentially decent footballing side can bring to the party. They just have to be rebuked and reminded of their recent wayward and unacceptable behaviour. Expulsion would be cutting their nose off to spite their face.

[Aldo]

There is absolutely no chance they should be getting off scot free. Not even close.

It would open the door for further non-founded, bombastic actions, with fans baying for "take em to court" at every turn.

They know the rules, they've been reminded of the rules and they've continually thrown them back in everyone's faces. Now a judge has also informed them that it is a football matter.

Can't just let it slide to get it over with.

There has to be Consequences to their actions and like you’ve said it opens the door for teams to do and say what they want knowing nothing will happen.

They are all creaming their pants at getting the documents released and expect to find something that they can use. I’d be very surprised if this was the case.

Some folk have said they don’t want them expelled. I want the maximum penalty (I know this won’t happen) and want them punted. Just for the shear reaction of Budge, Deans and the font of all knowledge Kiwidug


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[EskbankHibby]

Exactly. The other thing to remember about the Dundee vote that has been lost since the conversation centred on Hearts going down, is why the vote was necessary.

The vote was put on the table because it was evident that the league could not be played to its natural conclusion. There was nothing prejudicial about that situation, it was solely down to Covid 19. With hindsight, the fact that teams are only just now being allowed contact training ahead of a new season starting in a few weeks’ time shows this to be the correct decision.

UEFA insisted that any titles, European places, and relegation should happen based on sporting merit. Again, nothing unduly prejudicial there. The SPFL has the option to call the season using the placings as they stood. This was potentially prejudicial because not every team has completed the same number of fixtures (Partick being a case in point).

So, to avoid being prejudicial, a points per game system was used. This benefited some teams (St Johnstone, for example) and hindered others (us, for example) but it took away the unfairness of inequalities in matches played.

The vote was never for Celtic’s title win to be forced through or for any relegations to be unfairly applied, the vote was to come to a practical resolution to finish the season.

So, when it comes to the conduct of teams at that vote. Dundee evidently submitted their vote against the motion to end the season and latterly changed their mind. This, as has been pointed out many times now, is something they were entitled to do.

The SPFL were also entitled to lobby clubs to pass the resolution, given the impact of that resolution failing, IT really was incumbent on them to do so.

Dundee wanted reconstruction on the table, the media seemed to pick up that Dundee got this scenario on the back of changing their vote - i.e. they negotiated with the SPFL for that outcome in return for backing the resolution.

This isn’t actually the case. A consultation/review of reconstruction was already in the resolution from day one. If it passed, it was always the case that reconstruction would be discussed.

There’s nothing dodgy at play here. If you’re not Hearts and can step back to see what actually happened, prejudice and wishing a bad outcome on a few particular clubs was never the intention behind any of the votes or resolutions. Promotion and relegation is a fundamental part of league football, with only 8 matches left it was entirely right that both should occur - denying Dundee United promotion would have been as unjust as relegating Hearts, in fact more so as all the evidence points to United winning that league and Hearts being relegated from the top flight should the season have played out based on their respective form over the course of the season.

I would think the SPFL are completely comfortable sharing documents about it, their concern was around the competitive nature of disclosing financial documents between rival clubs. They’ve not got a huge skeleton in the closet that they’re losing sleep over.

But but but........ it's just not fair an that. Maroon pound etc

[Waxy]

Could they be hit with a points deduction?

[007]

There has to be Consequences to their actions and like you’ve said it opens the door for teams to do and say what they want knowing nothing will happen.

They are all creaming their pants at getting the documents released and expect to find something that they can use. I’d be very surprised if this was the case.

Some folk have said they don’t want them expelled. I want the maximum penalty (I know this won’t happen) and want them punted. Just for the shear reaction of Budge, Deans and the font of all knowledge Kiwidug


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly, no punishment leaves the SFA/SPFL wide open to other clubs breaching the rules. If they impose punishment on future rule breakers then they'd likely end up in court up against the argument of Hearts weren't punished for their rule break. It's not even arguable that Hearts didn't break the rules now that Lord Clark has ruled that they clearly have.

[Aldo]

Exactly, no punishment leaves the SFA/SPFL wide open to other clubs breaching the rules. If they impose punishment on future rule breakers then they'd likely end up in court up against the argument of Hearts weren't punished for their rule break. It's not even arguable that Hearts didn't break the rules now that Lord Clark has ruled that they clearly have.

I’m sure I read on here that FIFA/ UEFA will expect a team to be punished by its own association if they have broken the rules like they have.

Something along the lines of if we didn’t our European places etc would be endanger of being lost


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Oscar T Grouch]

Could they be hit with a points deduction?

Not within SFA remit. Fine, banning from the Scottish Cup or revoking license are their options. SPFL in charge of leagues and points deductions

[Sammy7nil]

Hearts fans can't grasp the main reason SPFL don't want all documents available is the TV contracts and correspondence with clubs on financial matters are likely to be Commercially Sensitive and may still be redacted.

I don't think the SPFL are sweating over an email ND sent to Lawell saying "let's relegate Hearts what a laugh it will be imagine the Budgies face":greengrin

[BroxburnHibee]

Could they be hit with a points deduction?

I personally think this will be the likely outcome for both clubs. SFA won't want to financially penalise them at this time.

However I think any penalty they get will be suspended.

[matty_f]

Good post Matty

I appreciate this is a guess but what do you see the final out come being

Status Quo Hearts relegated put back in their box?
Enhanced parachute payment?
Disciplinary action taken against Hearts?
My guess is status quo, potentially a compensation payment but significantly less than requested, and I’d be surprised to see it exceed £500k.

[Tug Wilson]

Kicking them out the Scottish Cup is unlikely as the SFA will want the semi finals and final played. These games are huge fund raisers.

Virtually every other club's fans will be routing for us to win the semi final!

[Sammy7nil]

Kicking them out the Scottish Cup is unlikely as the SFA will want the semi finals and final played. These games are huge fund raisers.

Virtually every other club's fans will be routing for us to win the semi final!

You know the way these things pan out there is always a story it would not be a total shock if they won it.

[Tug Wilson]

My guess is status quo, potentially a compensation payment but significantly less than requested, and I’d be surprised to see it exceed £500k.

Agreed. The payment will be "Here's half a million, now f off!" money. However, I expect that Hearts would have to be liable for all the court expenses.

SFA will not be looking for punitive punishment against them. Just smooth over the whole sorry affair and move on.

[ancient hibee]

I personally think this will be the likely outcome for both clubs. SFA won't want to financially penalise them at this time.

However I think any penalty they get will be suspended.

There is no way the SFA can impose a points deduction in a competition that they do not administer.

[grunt]

Has any member of the SFA (from any level) ever had their membership revoked? If so, the SFA would have precedent on their side.
I may be way out here, but didn't Rangers lose their SFA licence when they went bust? (It's so long ago I can't remember).

[Peevemor]

If arbitration finds for the SPFL, the very minimum is that HMFC/PTFC are required to cover all legal costs, whether by awarding expenses or a fine of the same amount.

They should also have a suspended punishment/fine, payable if they keep running to the media with their unfounded accusations and destructive threats.

[Sammy7nil]

It beggars belief that after 1500 pages of pish on KB they seem to think following Arbitration if they are not content with the outcome they simply return to court.

They have not grasped they have had their day in court and despite their 2-1 victory :tee hee::tee hee: the fact they had to pay costs and the Judgement said it would be dealt out with the court they did officially lose.

Unless SPFL have a number of yet unseen documents confirming unlawful acts the court proceedings ended yesterday.

[Tug Wilson]

You know the way these things pan out there is always a story it would not be a total shock if they won it.

Didn't want to say it.

However, their is also the chance that salt will be rubbed in their wounds as we go on to lift the cup for a 2nd time in the last 4 years!

Just imagine the conspiracy theories coming out of JKB.

- The 3 penalties awarded to Hibs in the semi by the ref were under instruction from Peter Lawwell/SFA. As were the 2 red cards and the disallowed equaliser late in the game.

- Celtic then lay down in the final just to get back at Hearts knowing that Hibs winning the cup would be the worst thing that could happen to them. Bloody Catholic conspiracy!

[Caversham Green]

I can't help feeling Hearts/Thistle were very badly advised regarding the court case. There were plenty on here and even a few on Kickedoot with a modicum of legal knowledge who were insisting it had to go through the SFA route and the SFA could well have given permission to take it to the Court of Session but the clubs' advisers took it straight to the CoS and that has cost the clubs a lot in legal fees for a negative result. It has also cost the promoted clubs to defend their interests. Hearts' wee tantrum has cost Raith Rovers tens of thousands of pounds that they can ill afford. How's that going to go down when they visit Starks Park next season?

[Sammy7nil]

Didn't want to say it.

However, their is also the chance that salt will be rubbed in their wounds as we go on to lift the cup for a 2nd time in the last 4 years!

Just imagine the conspiracy theories coming out of JKB.

- The 3 penalties awarded to Hibs in the semi by the ref were under instruction from Peter Lawwell/SFA. As were the 2 red cards and the disallowed equaliser late in the game.

- Celtic then lay down in the final just to get back at Hearts knowing that Hibs winning the cup would be the worst thing that could happen to them. Bloody Catholic conspiracy!

That would be great but as a last min equaliser against only 9 men is denied and the fact we have had three pens i assume we missed a couple :greengrin how bad did we play :greengrin :greengrin

[Sammy7nil]

I can't help feeling Hearts/Thistle were very badly advised regarding the court case. There were plenty on here and even a few on Kickedoot with a modicum of legal knowledge who were insisting it had to go through the SFA route and the SFA could well have given permission to take it to the Court of Session but the clubs' advisers took it straight to the CoS and that has cost the clubs a lot in legal fees for a negative result. It has also cost the promoted clubs to defend their interests. Hearts' wee tantrum has cost Raith Rovers tens of thousands of pounds that they can ill afford. How's that going to go down when they visit Starks Park next season?

It won't matter a jot there will not be a single Hearts fan at Stark Park as the Maroon £ is staying in Gorgie Only Hearts :greengrin :greengrin

[Springbank]

Expect a convenient boycott at the semi final

[Sammy7nil]

minutes ago, busby1985 said:
The level of bitterness you love to see.

A43410CC-2A00-43A3-8AA7-DEC5CB317681.jpeg

Don't know if this will work but St Mitten fans have paid for a cardboard cut out of Budgie to be at their home games :aok:

[Caversham Green]

It won't matter a jot there will not be a single Hearts fan at Stark Park as the Maroon £ is staying in Gorgie Only Hearts :greengrin :greengrin

The directors will be there though and they're the ones that actually started the action. How hospitable is Raith's hospitality going to be?

[007]

Not within SFA remit. Fine, banning from the Scottish Cup or revoking license are their options. SPFL in charge of leagues and points deductions

They have broken the SPFL rule that says they've to abide by the SFA rules and articles so maybe Neil Doncaster can punish them too. Wonder if he's got the power to put them down a division (if they somehow win the arbitration). 😀

[CropleyWasGod]

I may be way out here, but didn't Rangers lose their SFA licence when they went bust? (It's so long ago I can't remember).

Good shout. The membership was transferred from the old company to the new one, at a cost of £1. IIRC, that wasn't in the gift of the companies, and it pissed off the SFA. That became part of the discussions on the 5 way
agreement.

In short, they won it back in a play-off.

[GlesgaeHibby]

It beggars belief that after 1500 pages of pish on KB they seem to think following Arbitration if they are not content with the outcome they simply return to court.

They have not grasped they have had their day in court and despite their 2-1 victory :tee hee::tee hee: the fact they had to pay costs and the Judgement said it would be dealt out with the court they did officially lose.

Unless SPFL have a number of yet unseen documents confirming unlawful acts the court proceedings ended yesterday.

Here's the biggest pile of pish from kickback yet.

[Wakeyhibee]

Kicking them out the Scottish Cup is unlikely as the SFA will want the semi finals and final played. These games are huge fund raisers.

Virtually every other club's fans will be routing for us to win the semi final!

Can't see any sanctions being applied unless they are just as obstructive and nonsensical in the arbitration and try to take this back to court after ensuring its failure.

The SFA have a precedent now which means sanctions can be applied in future before awaiting any outcome.

[CentreLine]

They have broken the SPFL rule that says they've to abide by the SFA rules and articles so maybe Neil Doncaster can punish them too. Wonder if he's got the power to put them down a division (if they somehow win the arbitration). 😀

I think they have actually been saved by the preliminary hearing. That, after all was simply a hearing to decide which way the case was to go and who had jurisdiction. Lord Clarke made the decision for them and I think has saved them from any prospect of SFA sanction.

[Bostonhibby]

Here's the biggest pile of pish from kickback yet.So how are they celebrating not losing, that is winning as a result of going down their chosen path, the courts?

A socially responsible party on the Piaza with their Partick pals? Half and half scarves to mark the occasion?



Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Kojock]

I can't help feeling Hearts/Thistle were very badly advised regarding the court case. There were plenty on here and even a few on Kickedoot with a modicum of legal knowledge who were insisting it had to go through the SFA route and the SFA could well have given permission to take it to the Court of Session but the clubs' advisers took it straight to the CoS and that has cost the clubs a lot in legal fees for a negative result. It has also cost the promoted clubs to defend their interests. Hearts' wee tantrum has cost Raith Rovers tens of thousands of pounds that they can ill afford. How's that going to go down when they visit Starks Park next season?

I think Budge was backed into a corner she couldn’t get out off. Once they started shouting about court and interdicts the whole thing exploded beyond her control and to appease the fans she had to let it run its course.

[The Falcon]

My guess is status quo, potentially a compensation payment but significantly less than requested, and I’d be surprised to see it exceed £500k.

This would be interpreted by the hordes as a significant victory, an admission of SPFL guilt that they were unfairly treated and vindication of their decision to take the matter to court.

I dont see how they can be allowed to financially benefit from this.

[Sammy7nil]

I think Budge was backed into a corner she couldn’t get out off. Once they started shouting about court and interdicts the whole thing exploded beyond her control and to appease the fans she had to let it run its course.

Correct, if however they continue down this path of it is unfair so it can't happen and if it does they want £8 million they should be hounded by every club in Scotland.

It is clear from Twitter Tom English will continue with his crusade and is now trying to spin this in to some sort of defeat for the SPFL. The fanny should just stick to the facts.

[Peevemor]

minutes ago, busby1985 said:
The level of bitterness you love to see.

A43410CC-2A00-43A3-8AA7-DEC5CB317681.jpeg

Don't know if this will work but St Mitten fans have paid for a cardboard cut out of Budgie to be at their home games :aok:Brilliant!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200704/652e37d595a0bf97354c06ab4101665c.jpg

[Sammy7nil]

Brilliant!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200704/652e37d595a0bf97354c06ab4101665c.jpg

Ha ha fantastic they want the Budgie to sue them for using the photo without permission.

[Carheenlea]

Brilliant!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200704/652e37d595a0bf97354c06ab4101665c.jpg

Marvellous :applause::applause::applause: :top marks

[Lago]

I think Budge was backed into a corner she couldn’t get out off. Once they started shouting about court and interdicts the whole thing exploded beyond her control and to appease the fans she had to let it run its course.
Think your right, but my one worry is that she has given it the legs to let it run & run. Really hope I'm wrong.

[Del Boy]

Hearts fans now celebrating that United, Raith and Cove have a £50k legal bill to pay. They wonder why everyone hates them?

[ronaldo7]

Brilliant!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200704/652e37d595a0bf97354c06ab4101665c.jpg

They've certainly stepped up the pace for trolling the yams.

Fantastic effort.

[mutley]

Hearts fans now celebrating that United, Raith and Cove have a £50k legal bill to pay. They wonder why everyone hates them?

How much was Hearts legal bill.? Including the 50% of SPFL legal fees ? Anyone know?


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[Andy74]

Hearts fans now celebrating that United, Raith and Cove have a £50k legal bill to pay. They wonder why everyone hates them?

This is the worst part of this. These clubs are being financially hit not to mention the time this will be taking up for them, through no fault of their own and purely to protect a position that should be theirs.

[Del Boy]

This is the worst part of this. These clubs are being financially hit not to mention the time this will be taking up for them, through no fault of their own and purely to protect a position that should be theirs.

Yeah I feel that the SPFL should be standing up for these clubs more. Dundee United are currently trying to recruit a new manager (again thanks to Hearts) and the question mark over the court case will be limiting who they can attract, how is that fair?

[Jim44]

Correct, if however they continue down this path of it is unfair so it can't happen and if it does they want £8 million they should be hounded by every club in Scotland.

It is clear from Twitter Tom English will continue with his crusade and is now trying to spin this in to some sort of defeat for the SPFL. The fanny should just stick to the facts.

I wonder if English is on some sort of financial retainer with Hearts as some sort of PR consultant. His obsessive take on this whole thing is bizarre and unhealthy.

[jeffers]

This is the worst part of this. These clubs are being financially hit not to mention the time this will be taking up for them, through no fault of their own and purely to protect a position that should be theirs.

Yet another reason why they should be expelled, at the very least face severe punishment. No way should the SPFL/SFA view it acceptable behaviour for clubs who have done nothing wrong to be financially impacted by the actions of another club. Nor should going straight to court be acceptable because you simply didn't like a democratic decision made by a body you are a part of, using rules you signed up to.

[RoYO!]

They've certainly stepped up the pace for trolling the yams.

Fantastic effort.

I'm loving every minute of their bating!

Tremendous stuff. Well played!! :D

[norphy]

Isn't it within the footballing rules that for next year there can be no relegation/promotion to help clubs stabilize the cash flow. That would be a fair and fitting punishment,legal too....[emoji6]

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[greenginger]

I wonder if English is on some sort of financial retainer with Hearts as some sort of PR consultant. His obsessive take on this whole thing is bizarre and unhealthy.

Like how Charlie Mann was working for Vlad and the BBC at the same time. :cb

[hibeerealist]

Yet another reason why they should be expelled, at the very least face severe punishment. No way should the SPFL/SFA view it acceptable behaviour for clubs who have done nothing wrong to be financially impacted by the actions of another club. Nor should going straight to court be acceptable because you simply didn't like a democratic decision made by a body you are a part of, using rules you signed up to.

Spot on Jeffers, the silent majority will be thinking exactly this and looking for the SFA/SPFL to deal with it they cannot walk away without punishment.

[Sammy7nil]

Richard Gordon just said virtually no chance of reconstruction it is likely arbitration will not result in an agreement between both parties and the panel will hand down a decision.

[Juniper Greens]

My opinion is that the SPFL/SFA/UEFA rules have all been followed. However we are in an unprecedented and perhaps unforseen situation that the rules probably didn't anticipate. I do not think hearts will get any sort of reprieve, nor do I think they should. However as a gesture of goodwill, the second parachute payment that normally goes to 11th in the event they are relegated should be proportionately offered to hearts, partick and Stranraer, and that should be the end of it. Going forward. The rules should be amended to explicitly state what should happen if this happens again (season curtailed), including different treatment for how far through the season we are and how long the lay off is etc. I think there should also be a standard, industry wide piece written into players contracts, less penal that clause 12 or whatever it was called, but would mean that clubs don't have to go begging to players and would also mean that all players are treated equally, regardless of club, etc. For instance I'd propose something like, everything about 2.5k a week is subject to an x% cut, everything from 1-2.5k is subject to y% etc

[Onion]

Here's the biggest pile of pish from kickback yet.

They act as if nothing has happened to Hearts since April and all is rosey in the maroon garden :greengrin.

They've been officially relegated.
They lost the vote to have them reinstated.
The fixtures for the Premier League will be released and Hearts will not appear on it.
The've had their case for £8M compensation through the courts denied and now have to face up to Arbitration.

What part of that constitutes success ? Seriously deluded :greengrin

[Onion]

Yet another reason why they should be expelled, at the very least face severe punishment. No way should the SPFL/SFA view it acceptable behaviour for clubs who have done nothing wrong to be financially impacted by the actions of another club. Nor should going straight to court be acceptable because you simply didn't like a democratic decision made by a body you are a part of, using rules you signed up to.

Totally agree. If Hearts behaviour becomes the norm, those clubs that have no money and cannot afford to defend themselves will just get screwed by those that do through court proceedings. SFA need to stamp hard on Hearts and Partick for this. They have set a dangerous precedent that could lead to chaos in the game.

[Baader]

Hearts fans now celebrating that United, Raith and Cove have a £50k legal bill to pay. They wonder why everyone hates them?

Shameful. They're off the scale crazy delusional over there. They seem to hate everyone. What have those clubs done to deserve this? Cast a vote, along with the majority of clubs, which Hearts, purely out of self-interest, disagree with?

[Joe6-2]

I think they have actually been saved by the preliminary hearing. That, after all was simply a hearing to decide which way the case was to go and who had jurisdiction. Lord Clarke made the decision for them and I think has saved them from any prospect of SFA sanction.

Why would that save them from sanctions, they really have to answer for all this crap

[Spike Mandela]

Why would that save them from sanctions, they really have to answer for all this crap


The SFA will issue no sanctions. They never did when Rangers took them to court. It is an idle threat.

[jacomo]

Think your right, but my one worry is that she has given it the legs to let it run & run. Really hope I'm wrong.


Budge was the first person to raise threat of legal action unless she got her own way. This is a mess of her own making.

[B.H.F.C]

Hearts fans now celebrating that United, Raith and Cove have a £50k legal bill to pay. They wonder why everyone hates them?

Whilst ignoring the fact they’ve got their own legal bill plus 50% of the SPFL legal bill no doubt. Still, paying bills is never really something that’s bothered them.

[rossevenil]

With Reference to Dundee Utd,Raith and Cove having to pay court costs etc and the celebration from those morons about it have they forgotten that several clubs from the SPFL had already offered
cash to assist these 3 clubs with the court case costs? :greengrin:agree:

Cannae see many clubs lining up to help the charity thieves with their costs :na na:

"Several SPFL clubs have rallied to support Dundee United, Raith and Cove – with some even offering cash in their fight against Hearts and Partick Thistle."
Daily Record 24th June

[Since452]

Hearts fans now celebrating that United, Raith and Cove have a £50k legal bill to pay. They wonder why everyone hates them?

That's because those clubs will stump up and pay it whereas Hearts will add their own, and the SPFL's legal costs, to their creditors list and forget about it until their next administration. It's the Hearts way.

[Crazyhorse]

I wonder if English is on some sort of financial retainer with Hearts as some sort of PR consultant. His obsessive take on this whole thing is bizarre and unhealthy.

That and I think it’s also become an increasingly cynical exercise in keeping the story going so he can write bollocks about it. I’m sure he is already looking for an escape route out of BBC Scotland. He has lost all credibility with every other major club and will find little to no access to briefings from them. I hope the succulent yam was worth sacrificing his professional values, to retain some sort of balance in his reporting, over.

[Kato]

That and I think it’s also become an increasingly cynical exercise in keeping the story going so he can write bollocks about it.

That's been his angle from day one of the story. A journalist with nothing invested in game making hay while the sun shined. What does he care about Scottish football?

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[660]

St Mirren fans are magic

[jacomo]

That's been his angle from day one of the story. A journalist with nothing invested in game making hay while the sun shined. What does he care about Scottish football?

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk


BBC should sack him. His behaviour has been well below their official standards. If he would prefer to become a freelance pundit with a big mouth then let him.

[Kato]

Sportsound attempting to give a round up of all the options.

They've left out the idea that Hearts and Plastic Whistle could just accept that they were rubbish at football for the last year or so.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Kaff]

I know it's the ridiculous nature of the courts system and costs but if its true D Utd, Raith and Cove each have a bill of £50k to pay, how on earth has that whole debacle created by Hearts and Partick been allowed by any credible football person to remove nearly £500k out of our game? (working on the basis £150k per side in dispute)

While Anderson is rightly being lauded for his donation to the game as a whole Budge should be lambasted by all right minded football journalists and commentators for losing that funding from the game.
Imagine the difference £500k would make at grassroots level for instance instead of being thrown away in the legal system. Madness, and it should be called out as just that

[Lago]

Budge was the first person to raise threat of legal action unless she got her own way. This is a mess of her own making.
I completely agree, but as we can see other clubs are now being hit financially & I just feel that Hearts & Partick are happy to prolong the whole exercise purely for that reason.

[Danderhall Hibs]

I know it's the ridiculous nature of the courts system and costs but if its true D Utd, Raith and Cove each have a bill of £50k to pay, how on earth has that whole debacle created by Hearts and Partick been allowed by any credible football person to remove nearly £500k out of our game? (working on the basis £150k per side in dispute)

While Anderson is rightly being lauded for his donation to the game as a whole Budge should be lambasted by all right minded football journalists and commentators for losing that funding from the game.
Imagine the difference £500k would make at grassroots level for instance instead of being thrown away in the legal system. Madness, and it should be called out as just that

£50k legal bill? As in how much Anderson donated to each club?

Maybe when he agreed to the donation he thought all clubs would be in the dock?

[proud_and_green]

That's because those clubs will stump up and pay it whereas Hearts will add their own, and the SPFL's legal costs, to their creditors list and forget about it until their next administration. It's the Hearts way.I am wondering if there is anyway individuals can make a wee donation to their legal fees.

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk

[Kojock]

I know it's the ridiculous nature of the courts system and costs but if its true D Utd, Raith and Cove each have a bill of £50k to pay, how on earth has that whole debacle created by Hearts and Partick been allowed by any credible football person to remove nearly £500k out of our game? (working on the basis £150k per side in dispute)

While Anderson is rightly being lauded for his donation to the game as a whole Budge should be lambasted by all right minded football journalists and commentators for losing that funding from the game.
Imagine the difference £500k would make at grassroots level for instance instead of being thrown away in the legal system. Madness, and it should be called out as just that

The £50K was split between United, Raith and Cove. £50K for the SPFL which Hear7s have to pay half. So the costs to each individual so far is.

United, Raith and Cove £16,666 each
SPFL £25k
Hear7s and Partick £75K between them.

[Tambo]

😂😂

Should*we be*applying to the SFA/Governement for permission to start full time training*?

[CentreLine]

Why would that save them from sanctions, they really have to answer for all this crap

I have no experience in litigation whatsoever so it is only an opinion formed from listening to and reading debate in the media and on here. Especially the coverage of the argument put by the lawyer for the SPFL about what sanctions might be applied to hearts and Patrick “if you went to court”. It seems to me that the issue is if “Hahahahearts/Partick take the SPFL to court” and the hearing was a “pre court” thing. It could be argued that the hearing over the past three days was to push the legal boundaries of the SFA rules and have legal backing to take the SPFL to court. With the ruling yesterday they never got there and so have not yet broken the rule that says that can’t. Just an opinion and the reason I am not getting too excited (yet) about hahahahahearts getting hammered.

[Kaff]

The £50K was split between United, Raith and Cove. £50K for the SPFL which Hear7s have to pay half. So the costs to each individual so far is.

United, Raith and Cove £16,666 each
SPFL £25k
Hear7s and Partick £75K between them.

Thanks.

I did read somewhere £50k each (BBC I think) but can't find it now, likely been updated and changed if your figure correct. Does make more sense that figure.
It does still stand that £150k out of the game on lawyers fees is ridiculous

[SuperTortolano]

The £50K was split between United, Raith and Cove. £50K for the SPFL which Hear7s have to pay half. So the costs to each individual so far is.

United, Raith and Cove £16,666 each
SPFL £25k
Hear7s and Partick £75K between them.

Don't know if this us correct. SPFL split the cost 50 / 50 with tarts. But Dundee United etc lost their motion so they have to pay their costs.

[Stanton Spence]

Don't know if this us correct. SPFL split the cost 50 / 50 with tarts. But Dundee United etc lost their motion so they have to pay their costs.I don't think that's exactly correct mate. They way I read it was hertz and Partick have to pay all their own costs and 50% of the spfl bill

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk

[SuperTortolano]

I don't think that's exactly correct mate. They way I read it was hertz and Partick have to pay all their own costs and 50% of the spfl bill

Sent from my G3121 using Tapatalk

Fair enough. Bit double Dutch to me.

[JimBHibees]

I know it's the ridiculous nature of the courts system and costs but if its true D Utd, Raith and Cove each have a bill of £50k to pay, how on earth has that whole debacle created by Hearts and Partick been allowed by any credible football person to remove nearly £500k out of our game? (working on the basis £150k per side in dispute)

While Anderson is rightly being lauded for his donation to the game as a whole Budge should be lambasted by all right minded football journalists and commentators for losing that funding from the game.
Imagine the difference £500k would make at grassroots level for instance instead of being thrown away in the legal system. Madness, and it should be called out as just that

Yep absolutely shameful by Hearts and Budge.

[147lothian]

The latest gem from Saughton Jambo, say's something about the roasters over there that they see him as an ITK poster.

All in. Tbh AB's pockets are much deeper than ND's. If that's what she says then as a betting man, I'd bet she lasts longer in the SPFL than ND does. She also has more influential, affluent friends than donkey has. She's a resolute woman and if her wish is to see pain inflicted on donkey and the SPFL, then I don't imagine she'll stop or won't give up till he's gone.

Win or lose, bring them all down.

[matty_f]

The latest gem from Saughton Jambo, say's something about the roasters over there that they see him as an ITK poster.

All in. Tbh AB's pockets are much deeper than ND's. If that's what she says then as a betting man, I'd bet she lasts longer in the SPFL than ND does. She also has more influential, affluent friends than donkey has. She's a resolute woman and if her wish is to see pain inflicted on donkey and the SPFL, then I don't imagine she'll stop or won't give up till he's gone.

Win or lose, bring them all down.

None of that makes sense.

Hearts are just trying to avoid relegation and/or get some compensation to soften the blow of relegation.

They’ve no grounds to bring anything or anyone down. Nobody has acted vindictively towards Hearts, Doncaster has acted in the best interests of the SPFL and followed due process throughout, that is a matter of record.

These Hearts fans are utterly delusional, the stuff they’re coming out with is completely detached from reality.

[McD]

The latest gem from Saughton Jambo, say's something about the roasters over there that they see him as an ITK poster.

All in. Tbh AB's pockets are much deeper than ND's. If that's what she says then as a betting man, I'd bet she lasts longer in the SPFL than ND does. She also has more influential, affluent friends than donkey has. She's a resolute woman and if her wish is to see pain inflicted on donkey and the SPFL, then I don't imagine she'll stop or won't give up till he's gone.

Win or lose, bring them all down.



aye, bring them down... then what will hearts do? They’ve brought down the structure that they exist to compete in :rolleyes:


oh no wait, no doubt the English premier league will be begging them to join...

[Jim44]

The latest gem from Saughton Jambo, say's something about the roasters over there that they see him as an ITK poster.

All in. Tbh AB's pockets are much deeper than ND's. If that's what she says then as a betting man, I'd bet she lasts longer in the SPFL than ND does. She also has more influential, affluent friends than donkey has. She's a resolute woman and if her wish is to see pain inflicted on donkey and the SPFL, then I don't imagine she'll stop or won't give up till he's gone.

Win or lose, bring them all down.

I know that most of the vitriol and seethe is coming from the moronic element of the diet Huns support, but I’m sure that a majority of them and most within the club itself, sympathise with the ‘bring them all down’ notion. Why the hell do they want to remain a part of a set up they obviously loathe and want to destroy? The SFA and SPFL won’t apply any meaningful sanctions but I would love them to formally and publicly invite them to resign their membership if they are unwilling to comply with the rules, regulations and ethos of the groups.

[proud_and_green]

The latest gem from Saughton Jambo, say's something about the roasters over there that they see him as an ITK poster.

All in. Tbh AB's pockets are much deeper than ND's. If that's what she says then as a betting man, I'd bet she lasts longer in the SPFL than ND does. She also has more influential, affluent friends than donkey has. She's a resolute woman and if her wish is to see pain inflicted on donkey and the SPFL, then I don't imagine she'll stop or won't give up till he's gone.

Win or lose, bring them all down.So this guy is saying that Budge will be quite willing to spend all her money in an attritional war with the SPFL....! Aye I can see that. What colour is the moon of their planet!

Sent from my G8441 using Tapatalk

[bingo70]

None of that makes sense.

Hearts are just trying to avoid relegation and/or get some compensation to soften the blow of relegation.

They’ve no grounds to bring anything or anyone down. Nobody has acted vindictively towards Hearts, Doncaster has acted in the best interests of the SPFL and followed due process throughout, that is a matter of record.

These Hearts fans are utterly delusional, the stuff they’re coming out with is completely detached from reality.

They seem to think that the only reason the clubs voted down the league reconstruction was to spite them. Absolutely no recognition of the fact it was because it was a terrible set up that was proposed.

The media haven’t helped in this regard as they seem to be saying the same. Nobody has done a proper analysis of the pros and cons of a 14 team premier league to dig a bit deeper into why it was rejected.

[matty_f]

They seem to think that the only reason the clubs voted down the league reconstruction was to spite them. Absolutely no recognition of the fact it was because it was a terrible set up that was proposed.

The media haven’t helped in this regard as they seem to be saying the same. Nobody has done a proper analysis of the pros and cons of a 14 team premier league to dig a bit deeper into why it was rejected.
Been saying that for a while :agree: Tom English etc have led this narrative that it’s all about Hearts but it’s bollocks.

[Tambo]

No way hearts will bring the game down, 500k take it or leave it.

Roll on August 1st.

[bingo70]

Been saying that for a while :agree: Tom English etc have led this narrative that it’s all about Hearts but it’s bollocks.

The boy Scott McDermott (think that’s his name?) who is a journalist for the Daily record put up a shocker of a tweet last week saying Hibs were laying staff off and we’re skint because of Hearts relegation and we voted for it despite it costing us to lose a place in the league.....insinuating it was all out of spite as it was our local rivals.

The lack of balance from someone who is employed to know about and report on Scottish Football was incredible.

[Jim44]

The boy Scott McDermott (think that’s his name?) who is a journalist for the Daily record put up a shocker of a tweet last week saying Hibs were laying staff off and we’re skint because of Hearts relegation and we voted for it despite it costing us to lose a place in the league.....insinuating it was all out of spite as it was our local rivals.

The lack of balance from someone who is employed to know about and report on Scottish Football was incredible.

These clowns aren’t journalists. They’re professional ( given they’re paid for it ) supporters with keyboards.

[660]

The latest gem from Saughton Jambo, say's something about the roasters over there that they see him as an ITK poster.

All in. Tbh AB's pockets are much deeper than ND's. If that's what she says then as a betting man, I'd bet she lasts longer in the SPFL than ND does. She also has more influential, affluent friends than donkey has. She's a resolute woman and if her wish is to see pain inflicted on donkey and the SPFL, then I don't imagine she'll stop or won't give up till he's gone.

Win or lose, bring them all down.

Wait - is Doncaster paying for all this himself?

[matty_f]

The boy Scott McDermott (think that’s his name?) who is a journalist for the Daily record put up a shocker of a tweet last week saying Hibs were laying staff off and we’re skint because of Hearts relegation and we voted for it despite it costing us to lose a place in the league.....insinuating it was all out of spite as it was our local rivals.

The lack of balance from someone who is employed to know about and report on Scottish Football was incredible.

That’s a great point. We voted because it was the right thing to do even though it meant we lost money - nothing to do with Hearts.

And this idea that our financial situation now is down to Hearts is absurd, utterly ridiculous.

Journalists have been appalling during this.

[greenginger]

The latest gem from Saughton Jambo, say's something about the roasters over there that they see him as an ITK poster.

All in. Tbh AB's pockets are much deeper than ND's. If that's what she says then as a betting man, I'd bet she lasts longer in the SPFL than ND does. She also has more influential, affluent friends than donkey has. She's a resolute woman and if her wish is to see pain inflicted on donkey and the SPFL, then I don't imagine she'll stop or won't give up till he's gone.

Win or lose, bring them all down.

He says “ He’d bet Budge would last longer in the SPFL than Doncaster “. :rolleyes:

Budge was on the SPFL and got voted out at the first time of asking. She only got one vote , her own. :greengrin

She must have have been an asset to the SPFL right enough. Couldn’t tell the difference between an advance and a loan, couldn’t remember which clubs were involved, sure there were clauses in the rules but couldn’t be sure because she’d never read them .

Saughton Jambo and Budge, a couple of moon howlers right enough.

[Sammy7nil]

The delusion is strong

o
3 hours ago, Cruyff said:
We would have to take away their computers to prove that?


It only needs 1 cock up in the deletion of the evidence trail to blow everything open... which is when computers get seized and proceedings move from civil to criminal.
Sometimes when you’re in a hole the best thing to do is stop digging.

[147lothian]

I know that most of the vitriol and seethe is coming from the moronic element of the diet Huns support, but I’m sure that a majority of them and most within the club itself, sympathise with the ‘bring them all down’ notion. Why the hell do they want to remain a part of a set up they obviously loathe and want to destroy? The SFA and SPFL won’t apply any meaningful sanctions but I would love them to formally and publicly invite them to resign their membership if they are unwilling to comply with the rules, regulations and ethos of the groups.

Your right there Jim44, about the vitriol coming from the the moronic element, but it seems like the lunatic's have taken over the asylum on JKB, just look at the way anyone who mention's anything against going down the legal route gets shouted down and AB is hailed as a great leader despite all the evidence pointing to the opposite

[Bostonhibby]

The delusion is strong

o
3 hours ago, Cruyff said:
We would have to take away their computers to prove that?


It only needs 1 cock up in the deletion of the evidence trail to blow everything open... which is when computers get seized and proceedings move from civil to criminal.
Sometimes when you’re in a hole the best thing to do is stop digging.Obviously a fan of the X Files, or maybe the Clangers.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Caversham Green]

The latest gem from Saughton Jambo, say's something about the roasters over there that they see him as an ITK poster.

All in. Tbh AB's pockets are much deeper than ND's. If that's what she says then as a betting man, I'd bet she lasts longer in the SPFL than ND does. She also has more influential, affluent friends than donkey has. She's a resolute woman and if her wish is to see pain inflicted on donkey and the SPFL, then I don't imagine she'll stop or won't give up till he's gone.

Win or lose, bring them all down.

That just makes her sound like a nasty, vindictive old woman which the exact opposite of the image she's tried to project so far - that makes her a fraud as well.

I'll no longer feel any pangs of guilt when I insult the senile old bat.

[hibeerealist]

That just makes her sound like a nasty, vindictive old woman which the exact opposite of the image she's tried to project so far - that makes her a fraud as well.

I'll no longer feel any pangs of guilt when I insult the senile old bat.

Wicked old witch!!

While she has her hands out to FOH and Benny E Factor to prop her up after shocking management, innocent clubs are left having to defend themselves and cop a load of legal fees. Aye she is certainly a good person who cares about the greater good of Scottish Football, ******g fraud as you say!

[matty_f]

The delusion is strong

o
3 hours ago, Cruyff said:
We would have to take away their computers to prove that?


It only needs 1 cock up in the deletion of the evidence trail to blow everything open... which is when computers get seized and proceedings move from civil to criminal.
Sometimes when you’re in a hole the best thing to do is stop digging.

What do they think they’re going to find?

Evidence that the SPFL lobbied Dundee to change their vote? So they should have, i think it was incumbent on the board to lobby for that outcome, and had the resolution failed at the short notice vote i would have selected the SPFL to go back to clubs that vote against it to persuade them to change their vote within the 28 days.

I believe it’s also been mentioned that Doncaster could have exercised executive powers to end the season regardless of that resolution on the basis of the exceptional circumstances.

Irrespective of that, there’s also the consideration that needs to be given that top flight clubs in Scotland are still not able to play matches, and we’re a month away from the new season starting, so the notion that the league could have been played out to its conclusion is fantasy as well.

The league had to end when it did, there was no other reasonable outcome and it was absolutely fair to finalise relegation and promotion on sporting merit.

[hibbyfraelibby]

I know that most of the vitriol and seethe is coming from the moronic element of the diet Huns support, but I’m sure that a majority of them and most within the club itself, sympathise with the ‘bring them all down’ notion. Why the hell do they want to remain a part of a set up they obviously loathe and want to destroy? The SFA and SPFL won’t apply any meaningful sanctions but I would love them to formally and publicly invite them to resign their membership if they are unwilling to comply with the rules, regulations and ethos of the groups.

I quite like your thinking. Lets not sack them just challenge them to adopt a collegiate attitude or leave the grownnups alone and go play your football in front of the buses.

[Garymcl]

Just watching sky sports news and they’re advertising spfl fixtures out on Monday at 9 am (which we all know) but the sweet thing is and just makes it all real they also show all the clubs crest participating and guess what no sighting of the wee team from gorgie my beer is going down well enjoy the lower league (when it starts) ****** them in our shadow you go :greengrin

[007]

He says “ He’d bet Budge would last longer in the SPFL than Doncaster “. :rolleyes:

Budge was on the SPFL and got voted out at the first time of asking. She only got one vote , her own. :greengrin

She must have have been an asset to the SPFL right enough. Couldn’t tell the difference between an advance and a loan, couldn’t remember which clubs were involved, sure there were clauses in the rules but couldn’t be sure because she’d never read them .

Saughton Jambo and Budge, a couple of moon howlers right enough.

I've seen a Jambo state that Budge saw from within that the SPFL was corrupt so she did the honourable thing and stepped down.

[hibbyfraelibby]

I've seen a Jambo state that Budge saw from within that the SPFL was corrupt so she did the honourable thing and stepped down.

...but still solo voted for herself from a Bulgarian balcony with a view of a piazza

[neil7908]

I've seen a Jambo state that Budge saw from within that the SPFL was corrupt so she did the honourable thing and stepped down.

I'm genuinely worried about some of them. I have a couple of Jambo mates who are good friends of mine and usually pretty fair and reasonable when discussing football. But in the last few weeks it's like they are in a cult where any questioning of the leader or alternative narratives are blasphemy.

I can see this ending with them all living in a compound and drinking the Kool Aid when inevitably the arbitration goes against them.

[seanshow]

I'm genuinely worried about some of them. I have a couple of Jambo mates who are good friends of mine and usually pretty fair and reasonable when discussing football. But in the last few weeks it's like they are in a cult where any questioning of the leader or alternative narratives are blasphemy.

I can see this ending with them all living in a compound and drinking the Kool Aid when inevitably the arbitration goes against them.

Who is the David Koresh

[Irish_Steve]

From the BBC - Jumbos seem to be creaming themselves that they will be getting 10m!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53291719

[Tambo]

New idea of sticking it up the spfl by intentionally loosing 150-0.

[Kato]

I'm genuinely worried about some of them. I have a couple of Jambo mates who are good friends of mine and usually pretty fair and reasonable when discussing football. But in the last few weeks it's like they are in a cult where any questioning of the leader or alternative narratives are blasphemy.

I can see this ending with them all living in a compound and drinking the Kool Aid when inevitably the arbitration goes against them.I've been pretty blunt with any Jambos I know. They deserve to go down, Levein's football brain is to blame, Budge couldn't run a bath and the 'squèeling' is an embarrassment.

Roughly 50% openly agree, some mumbles from some but no outward lunacy as witnessed on Windowlickback.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[147lothian]

I've been pretty blunt with any Jambos I know. They deserve to go down, Levein's football brain is to blame, Budge couldn't run a bath and the 'squèeling' is an embarrassment.

Roughly 50% openly agree, some mumbles from some but no outward lunacy as witnessed on Windowlickback.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

It's funny you say this Kato, because the Jambo's i've spoke to at work also say they deserved to go down and question the appointments of managers etc, this however is definately not reflected on JKB, there seems to be a weird group mentality thing going on over there where its everyone else's fault and they are about to shine a light on the corruption of the SPFL everyone else won't survive without them and they are about to be reinstated in the SPL or will bankrupt the SPFL with a huge compensation pay out, its all very strange on that forum.

[Irish_Steve]

It's funny you say this Kato, because the Jambo's i've spoke to at work also say they deserved to go down and question the appointments of managers etc, this however is definately not reflected on JKB, there seems to be a weird group mentality thing going on over there where its everyone else's fault and they are about to shine a light on the corruption of the SPFL everyone else won't survive without them and they are about to be reinstated in the SPL or will bankrupt the SPFL with a huge compensation pay out, its all very strange on that forum.


Ethan Hunt has just posted a list of questions that should be asked at arbitration. To say there are scatter-gun is a bit of an understatement to put it mildly. He is rapidly climbing the wallopers ladder

[hibeerealist]

Ethan Hunt has just posted a list of questions that should be asked at arbitration. To say there are scatter-gun is a bit of an understatement to put it mildly. He is rapidly climbing the wallopers ladder


Must be be a big ladder Steve

[Irish_Steve]

Must be be a big ladder Steve

lol - it's as long as the list of questions he posted

[Joe6-2]

I have no experience in litigation whatsoever so it is only an opinion formed from listening to and reading debate in the media and on here. Especially the coverage of the argument put by the lawyer for the SPFL about what sanctions might be applied to hearts and Patrick “if you went to court”. It seems to me that the issue is if “Hahahahearts/Partick take the SPFL to court” and the hearing was a “pre court” thing. It could be argued that the hearing over the past three days was to push the legal boundaries of the SFA rules and have legal backing to take the SPFL to court. With the ruling yesterday they never got there and so have not yet broken the rule that says that can’t. Just an opinion and the reason I am not getting too excited (yet) about hahahahahearts getting hammered.

Thanks, and hope you are right, yet!

[04Sauzee]

Here is the list of questions from Shop Front

Ethan Hunt



Posted June 24

1 hour ago, **** the SPFL said:

happy to listen to your comments EH

We’ve outlined our case in the petition. The SPFL have lodged a defence. It may now go to proof. I’ve not seen the SPFL defence but if I was part of our legal team I’d want the following matters raised in court:



- Why did the SPFL board choose a resolution that went against the SPFL’s own regulations (B1) that “in all matters relation to the League and Company each Club shall behave towards each other Club and the Company with the utmost good faith”.



- Why they did not choose a resolution that had no loss to any club resolution and would have adhered to the SPFL’s own rules and regulations, and would have protected the integrity of the pyramid system.



- Why did the resolution require the payment of monies to be linked to final league placings.



- Why did they decree Rangers proposal, of paying the money on worst place league standings initially, before making final adjusted payments when time had been taken to see if the league could be completed or not, not competent due to one word.



- Why did they did not give Rangers sufficient time to amend their proposal. Championship clubs were advised the SPFL that Rangers proposal had failed 20 hours before Rangers were. By the time Rangers were informed it was too late to re-submit the proposal.



- Why did the chosen resolution have no adverse effect for the club of any SPFL board member.



- Why was the chosen resolution - according to the SPFL’s QC own advice legal advice - such that it knowingly left the SPFL open to legal challenge.



- Why was a joint SPFL/SFA letter sent to UEFA six days before the vote on the resolution was held, stating that “the vast majority of clubs” were in favour of ending the season. Numerous club Chairman have stated that they were never contacted on the matter.



- Why did briefing papers provided to the clubs withhold/omit information (in relation to TV deal pay back) which meant clubs could not make fully informed decisions. Chairman stated that language used in the the briefing papers was heavily negative toward anything other than the resolution proposed, which itself was presented in an extremely positive manner.



- Why did the vote held on the resolution leave many club Chairmen stating it had “left them with no other option” and felt like “we have a gun to our heads”. Why did the SPFL insist on a 48 hour deadline which Chairman admitted left them with “little time to read and digest all the information”.



- Why did the SPFL hold a vote held that - crucially - requested that clubs vote yes or no to when returning their voting slips.



- Why did Neil Doncaster phone Dave Cormack (Aberdeen) to tell him that his vote didn’t matter. What was the content of the conversation which made Cormack vote yes after indicating prior to the vote he intended to vote no. Cormack stated in a Sportsound interview he had been given assistances, what were they.



- Why did the SPFL communicate the result of an incomplete vote, thereby allowing Dundee to be aware that their vote - which they had been told had not been received - was crucial to the resolution being agreed or defeated. Given this Dundee sent an email stating that their attempted vote should not be counted.



- When was the Dundee NO vote actually found. The SPFL stated it had been found in their quarantine some hours after the release of the incomplete result and Dundee’s email stating the wishes their vote to be disregarded.



- Why did the SPFL agree Dundee’s request not register their vote and under what rules/regulations or legislation was that decision made.



- What was the content of the communications between John Nelms, the SPFL board and perhaps a n other(s) in the following days (of which there is some evidence on Twitter messages “friendlies with big hitters” etc) which led to Dundee changing their vote from No to yes, and the resolution thereafter passing. The SPFL have consistently used the “81% of clubs voted in favour” when it would appear two clubs had the way they intended to vote influenced.



- Why the SPFL subsequently sanction an unrequested and unknown to the members, Deloitte audit in relation to the Dundee vote and what were the parameters set. Where the clubs ever sent the audit report in relation to this activity.



- Why did the SPFL cloud/allow to be clouded, the issue of loan, advance, fee payment issue, which, despite the semantics involved, proved the SPFL had provided advances totalling £300,000 to Motherwell and Hamilton as early payment as they had received one less game against Rangers or Celtic as the result of an uneven split.



- Why did the SPFL board lobby so hard against an independent investigation being held into the proceedings around the resolution, the vote, and the overall governance of the SPFL board.



- Why have the SPFL board shown a complete lack of any leadership throughout the reconstruction process, thereby meaning clubs were left to drive the issue in any attempt to obtain a no loss outcome for SPFL member clubs.



- When the SPFL did involve themselves in reconstruction they requested clubs state if they were in favour of reconstruction, and if not, what would it take to overcome that. What Reasons did the clubs not in favour of reconstruction provide, and what, if any, action did the SPFL board take to resolve any of the issues presented.



- Why have the SPFL board shown a complete lack of transparency, deciding who can interview them, and on what subject matter. Why did they undertake Q and A’s with themselves, which allowed them to address the issues they wished to, providing the answers they wished, and did not allow the possibility of more intrusive questioning.



- Why did Les Grey - SPFL board member - state on a PLZ interview with Peter Martin that “Hearts have been treated unfairly”.



- Why Neil Doncaster stating that league reconstruction would correct ‘a perceived unfairness”.



- Why did the SPFL issue a statement today which conceded/admitted the SPFL rules and regulations were not adequate enough to deal with such a circumstance as COVID19 (although number clubs had insurance covering them for Force Majeure).Why did they also issue clarification as to the how a future vote would take place, and that and submitted vote could not be changed thereafter.



All of the above is common public knowledge. All of the above is in the public domain. I’m sure there are things I’ve missed.



I’ve left out the rumour, the allegations of threats of bullying and coercion, I doubt our legal team will if they deem it to be of value. I’m sure they will leave no stone unturned to evidence exactly what has went on throughout this process and will have found/been provided with information that was not in the public domain.

[Sammy7nil]

Ethan Hunt has just posted a list of questions that should be asked at arbitration. To say there are scatter-gun is a bit of an understatement to put it mildly. He is rapidly climbing the wallopers ladder

Ethan or as prefer to call him James Hunt is a self righteous thinks he knows it all. So far everything he had claimed would happen has not. He derides everyone who calls him out and appears to be typical hearts arrssehole. Worse than Kiwi as wee Ethan actually believes he is clever.

[Joe6-2]

That’s a great point. We voted because it was the right thing to do even though it meant we lost money - nothing to do with Hearts.

And this idea that our financial situation now is down to Hearts is absurd, utterly ridiculous.

Journalists have been appalling during this.

I’m gobsmacked at the Jumbo love in, I just don’t get it

[SuperAllyMcleod]

Who is the David Koresh

It was Jim Jones who dished out Kool Aid. Koresh died in a fire when the FBI rushed it.

Just sayin [emoji16]

[Vini1875]

What happens if hearts and PT win the arbitration?

Reconstruction has been ruled out so I assume that won't come back as a discussion. Hard to believe that DUFC would be asked to repeat a year in the championship and hearts would escape relegation. Also unlikely that the season is played to a conclusion.

If they win then the only outcome I can see is a financial one, but £10M between them sounds bonkers.

Am I missing something?

[Clarence]

Who is the David Koresh

Kool aid was Jim Jones - I’d imagine Budge’s final moments as cult leader will have them all huddled on the piazza, eating heavily toxic chips whilst clapping each other off to the big bus shelter in the sky.

[Joe6-2]

Just watching sky sports news and they’re advertising spfl fixtures out on Monday at 9 am (which we all know) but the sweet thing is and just makes it all real they also show all the clubs crest participating and guess what no sighting of the wee team from gorgie my beer is going down well enjoy the lower league (when it starts) ****** them in our shadow you go :greengrin

My eight year old grandson spotted that and had a chuckle!

[Kato]

It's funny you say this Kato, because the Jambo's i've spoke to at work also say they deserved to go down and question the appointments of managers etc, this however is definately not reflected on JKB, there seems to be a weird group mentality thing going on over there where its everyone else's fault and they are about to shine a light on the corruption of the SPFL everyone else won't survive without them and they are about to be reinstated in the SPL or will bankrupt the SPFL with a huge compensation pay out, its all very strange on that forum.None of my pet flumps admit to posting on there and I believe them.

I think there is a group-think on Knockback left over from the siege mentality built up from the Pie-Man/Romanov years. That'll account for 90% of the roasters over there with around 10% being down to no jambo actually being able to argue with them and undercover Hibbys egging them on.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[Joe6-2]

Must be be a big ladder Steve

That leads to the same place as their stairway

[The 90+2]

The thing I don’t get in all of this: every single day on sportsound it’s a complete hearts love in, the papers say jack **** yet every single hearts fan kicking about say the media is against them. It’s ludicrous how every single guest on the bbc supports hearts case.

[greenginger]

I've seen a Jambo state that Budge saw from within that the SPFL was corrupt so she did the honourable thing and stepped down.


https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts-chairwoman-ann-budge-voted-spfl-board-583624

Fake news from the Jambo , no surprise there .

[matty_f]

- Why did they decree Rangers proposal, of paying the money on worst place league standings initially, before making final adjusted payments when time had been taken to see if the league could be completed or not, not competent due to one word.

This is nonsense. This had already happened, why folk can’t get their head around it (Sportsound panellists included) is beyond me.

Celtic, Rangers, and Motherwell were all paid out slightly higher than the other teams ad they were guaranteed top 6, everyone else was paid the most they could without knowing the final standings.

[Wat Dabney]

Ethan Hunt has just posted a list of questions that should be asked at arbitration. To say there are scatter-gun is a bit of an understatement to put it mildly. He is rapidly climbing the wallopers ladder

He forgot the most important question: Why have Hearts blown £12m and still ended up bottom of the league. :na na:

[Bostonhibby]

I've been pretty blunt with any Jambos I know. They deserve to go down, Levein's football brain is to blame, Budge couldn't run a bath and the 'squèeling' is an embarrassment.

Roughly 50% openly agree, some mumbles from some but no outward lunacy as witnessed on Windowlickback.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using TapatalkOur family yam is pretty much the same, to be fair to him he had wanted Levein out for a long time and he's now full on anti Budge, which is a shame as all the Hibbies in the family would like her to be around for a while yet.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[jacomo]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts-chairwoman-ann-budge-voted-spfl-board-583624

Fake news from the Jambo , no surprise there .


Just look at the face on it.

[Ronniekirk]

Just look at the face on it.

Face like a Torn Baffie


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[greenpaper55]

The face that sank a thousand ships !

[greenpaper55]

A face like a well scelpt erse

[Eyrie]

What happens if hearts and PT win the arbitration?

Reconstruction has been ruled out so I assume that won't come back as a discussion. Hard to believe that DUFC would be asked to repeat a year in the championship and hearts would escape relegation. Also unlikely that the season is played to a conclusion.

If they win then the only outcome I can see is a financial one, but £10M between them sounds bonkers.

Am I missing something?

It won't be £10m.

The problem with arbitration is that we won't get to see how Hearts have "calculated" their demand for £8m. However that was more than half their turnover in their most recent accounts. We already know that the two clubs most comparable in size to Hearts are facing massive drops in their income - potentially £10m for Aberdeen and for us, half our turnover. So much of their claim is actually based on losses due to the coronavirus and will be disregarded.

All they can genuinely claim for are the loss of profit (not income) due to smaller crowds (ie no derbies or Ugly Sisters) and then only from the point that fans are allowed back in. They can also claim for the reduction in prize money between bottom of the Premiership and top of the second tier (about £500k) and there may be contractual clauses that reduce their sponsorship receipts.

However even that genuine claim has to be discounted as it wasn't Hearts who were relegated but the team with the fewest points, so any award has to factor in their own culpability in being in last place and the chances of them staying up if the remaining games had been played. History shows that in the last ten years, nine of the clubs who were bottom after 30 games were automatically relegated and the one exception was only one (not four) points adrift.

The same logic will apply to Partick, who at least had a game in hand and only a one point deficit.

[CapitalGreen]

It won't be £10m.

The problem with arbitration is that we won't get to see how Hearts have "calculated" their demand for £8m. However that was more than half their turnover in their most recent accounts. We already know that the two clubs most comparable in size to Hearts are facing massive drops in their income - potentially £10m for Aberdeen and for us, half our turnover. So much of their claim is actually based on losses due to the coronavirus and will be disregarded.

All they can genuinely claim for are the loss of profit (not income) due to smaller crowds (ie no derbies or Ugly Sisters) and then only from the point that fans are allowed back in. They can also claim for the reduction in prize money between bottom of the Premiership and top of the second tier (about £500k) and there may be contractual clauses that reduce their sponsorship receipts.

However even that genuine claim has to be discounted as it wasn't Hearts who were relegated but the team with the fewest points, so any award has to factor in their own culpability in being in last place and the chances of them staying up if the remaining games had been played. History shows that in the last ten years, nine of the clubs who were bottom after 30 games were automatically relegated and the one exception was only one (not four) points adrift.

The same logic will apply to Partick, who at least had a game in hand and only a one point deficit.

Any compensation will also need to be weighted by the likelihood that they probably would have ended up relegated anyway had the season come to its natural conclusion..

[Del Boy]

It seems Hearts main argument is that the vote was flawed as Dundee voted NO, what I don’t get is how that leads to them not being relegated? That wasn’t what was going to happen if the vote to end the season didn’t pass! So if it’s found that the vote is not valid or that it failed how does that automatically become no relegation and no promotion? Surely it should just be that the SPFL have not yet ended the season and it should be passed back to them to sort out??

[greenginger]

It seems Hearts main argument is that the vote was flawed as Dundee voted NO, what I don’t get is how that leads to them not being relegated? That wasn’t what was going to happen if the vote to end the season didn’t pass! So if it’s found that the vote is not valid or that it failed how does that automatically become no relegation and no promotion? Surely it should just be that the SPFL have not yet ended the season and it should be passed back to them to sort out??

I thought the vote to end the Premier League season was taken some weeks after the Dundee vote confusion.

It it was a separate vote by the premier clubs and was unanimous, I think.