Jambos Legal Challenge

[Peevemor]

https://i.gyazo.com/85341ac7e6a0a42846ffed46923e8548.png

And there he is, the puppet himself.Will his opinion be the same if Heartick are ordered to pay everyone's legal costs?

[Stuart93]

I feel sorry for Raith & Cove but I’m finding it difficult to feel sorry for Dundee Utd here. A club that have been operating at around 130% wages to turnover ratio (I believe) now asking other clubs to help raise funds is a tad ironic.

Their owner has had no issue with chucking cash at them for wages and signings yet they need other clubs to assist with this? Not having that.

[Since452]

https://i.gyazo.com/85341ac7e6a0a42846ffed46923e8548.png

And there he is, the puppet himself.

Keep digging Tom you absolute clown

[Kato]

https://i.gyazo.com/85341ac7e6a0a42846ffed46923e8548.png

And there he is, the puppet himself.He's an a absolute disgrace as are the BBC for giving him a platform.

If he thinks Hearts deserve his support that's his and the producers at Sportsound's choice but the promoted clubs do not deserve this.

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[bringbackbenny]

The SPFL/SFA must now impose the toughest sanctions against Hearts and Partick.

This <must> happen. Expulsion from the league's might be difficult but surely removal from the Scottish Cup and serous fines(not suspended) and new player registration ban must be on the cards. The effect on Dundee Utd, Raith and Cove is a crime against the rest of Scottish Football!

[Keith_M]

The three clubs are not the same as the SPFL and have different interests. It is conceivable that the SPFL could say to Hearts 'Ach, you're right; let's settle and halt relegation' and then the three clubs would be shafted. It's also possible for the clubs to have different legal strategies; we've already seen that with the Court of Session motions, where the SPFL was trying to suspend the case in order to arbitrate, while the three clubs went for a dismissal (and they lost that motion).

It's also useful to have two sets of defence arguments. For instance, if there was just one set of defence advocates at the Court of Session, it's possible that the SPFL would have chosen wrongly and went for a dismissal motion instead of the successful sist motion. Having both arguments heard increased the chance that one of them prevailed.


But surely there's only one argument...

Was the vote to finish the league on sporting merit legitimate and carried out properly?

This was a vote of all member clubs, overseen by the SPFL. The SPFL should now fully defend that vote and prove that it was both within the rules and carried out properly.

Hearts (frankly laughable) attempt to get £10M in compensation is irrelevant, as is any money spent by any of the promoted or relegated clubs before or since that vote was taken.

[Spike Mandela]

The SPFL/SFA must now impose the toughest sanctions against Hearts and Partick.

Don’t hold your breath Waxy.

[Peevemor]

I feel sorry for Raith & Cove but I’m finding it difficult to feel sorry for Dundee Utd here. A club that have been operating at around 130% wages to turnover ratio (I believe) now asking other clubs to help raise funds is a tad ironic.

Their owner has had no issue with chucking cash at them for wages and signings yet they need other clubs to assist with this? Not having that.Their owner went for it after too long out of the top league.

We knowingly overspent in the championship too, just not to the same level as United.

They shouldn't be out of pocket at all due to the court stuff though.

[Springbank]

Kick hearts out the cup & give them a 9 point penalty.
Then release a statement
It's a bare knuckle fight.
What did hearts expect?

[Stuart93]

Their owner went for it after too long out of the top league.

We knowingly overspent in the championship too, just not to the same level as United.

They shouldn't be out of pocket at all due to the court stuff though.

Na you’re probably right but I don’t think we were ever around the levels of 130% for wages above turnover?

I’m probably being a bit harsh but not sure it’s fair they have an owner who’ll chuck cash at them to be better than their competitors, who’re living within their means, then asking those competitors for help funding this.

[Keith_M]

I'm with Tom English on the "what do you expect" and "this is a bare knuckle fight" point of view.

The SFA should now take action against Heartsick Pistle according to those 'bare knuckle fight' rules...

...Suspend them and fine them £1M each

[Kato]

I'm with Tom English on the "what do you expect" and "this is a bare knuckle fight" point of view.

The SFA should now take action against Heartsick Pistle according to those 'bare knuckle fight' rules...

...Suspend them and fine them £1M eachThat's what he's after extreme reactions. He's a **** stirrer.

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[hibeerealist]

I'm with Tom English on the "what do you expect" and "this is a bare knuckle fight" point of view.

The SFA should now take action against Heartsick Pistle according to those 'bare knuckle fight' rules...

...Suspend them and fine them £1M each


YIP, lets see if their friendly Lord Clark invites the SPFL back into the CoS to "interfere" in football matters!

[Col2]

Dundee United releases statement looking for wider club and fans support.

I think the three clubs will get it.

https://twitter.com/dundeeunitedfc/status/1280142114068856833?s=21

[04Sauzee]

Dundee United releases statement looking for wider club and fans support.

I think the three clubs will get it.

https://twitter.com/dundeeunitedfc/status/1280142114068856833?s=21
Be interested how they approach the transfer market on the back of this

[Since452]

Dundee United releases statement looking for wider club and fans support.

I think the three clubs will get it.

https://twitter.com/dundeeunitedfc/status/1280142114068856833?s=21

Imagine the seethe from Hearts and Rangers fans if Celtic stumped up

[Jim44]

English is intentionally keeping the controversial dialogue in everyone’s face as it gives him meat to get his twisted, biased teeth into and keep him in a job. The Beeb will be loving him.

[A Hi-Bee]

Imagine the seethe from Hearts and Rangers fans if Celtic stumped up

As my heading says how can Celtic be called as champions if the 3 clubs dragged into this cluster**** by hertz and partik are refused. How can Annie Fudge bring a case against the 3 clubs and not mention Celtic.
How can that plum tam english not mention the above facts while he continues licking the fudges arse.
The SFA can and should put them right into place by suspending them from the Scottish Cup for ever and lump a few mill in fines as well.

[tamig]

Dundee United releases statement looking for wider club and fans support.

I think the three clubs will get it.

https://twitter.com/dundeeunitedfc/status/1280142114068856833?s=21
Some of the replies on that twitter thread are unreal. Totally lacking in any reasonable thought. Infested with bitter huns and hertz clowns.
The old chestnut “why can we not do what our neighbours next door are doing and play the season to a finish” is out. What are these folk thinking?

[blackpoolhibs]

As my heading says how can Celtic be called as champions if the 3 clubs dragged into this cluster**** by hertz and partik are refused. How can Annie Fudge bring a case against the 3 clubs and not mention Celtic.
How can that plum tam english not mention the above facts while he continues licking the fudges arse.
The SFA can and should put them right into place by suspending them from the Scottish Cup for ever and lump a few mill in fines as well.

It's a nonsense, each and every club could legitimately say they could have climbed one, two maybe even three places up the league, and have lost that revenue those higher positions pay.

The maroon hound is at it, as per usual for that club.

[Caversham Green]

https://i.gyazo.com/85341ac7e6a0a42846ffed46923e8548.png

And there he is, the puppet himself.

A strange tweet from an increasingly strange man. There's little doubt that United expected this to happen and they too are standing up for themselves by inviting financial support so that they are on a more level playing field against the financial bullies. I just hope the SFA and SPFL take note of his comment that the gloves are off. He's certainly strengthened my intention to donate to the United cause - they have every right to be playing in the Premiership next season and Hearts have every right to be playing in the Championship if they're not expelled.

[jacomo]

https://i.gyazo.com/85341ac7e6a0a42846ffed46923e8548.png

And there he is, the puppet himself.


Well Tom... it seems the real hardship felt by other clubs still doesn’t make him reassess things.

[660]

Why are the words “Hearts finished bottom” so difficult to comprehend for these clowns.

[fiolex1]

I have a horrible feeling that reconstruction will happen and a 14 team league will be the outcome of the arbitration. Due to the 16 -26 vote on this 14 team reconstruction proposal the last time. I think it will be forced through by executive powers..There is no money to compensate Hearts/Patrick or Dundee Utd/Raith/Cove whatever way the arbitration case goes. We should not pay a penny towards Dundee Utd etc ,as we’ve already lost out to the tune of £150k.

[Since452]

Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers being out of pocket through this is nothing short of a disgrace.

[EI255]

Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers being out of pocket through this is nothing short of a disgrace.That is what Fartz FC do.

The longer this goes on the more they will be loathed by everyone. They are a disgrace.

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[Aldo]

Did we really expect anything different from TE??

As for the comments on the DUFC twitter page, did we really expect anything else or different from their classless fans? Bear in mind they are the famous team that pumped local businesses and charities including the Lady Haig Poppy fund.

As for punishment.... they have to be severely dealt with after this but I won’t hold my breath.


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[Since452]

I have a horrible feeling that reconstruction will happen and a 14 team league will be the outcome of the arbitration. Due to the 16 -26 vote on this 14 team reconstruction proposal the last time. I think it will be forced through by executive powers..There is no money to compensate Hearts/Patrick or Dundee Utd/Raith/Cove whatever way the arbitration case goes. We should not pay a penny towards Dundee Utd etc ,as we’ve already lost out to the tune of £150k.

Not a chance that'll happen. They won't go against what member clubs voted for. The Sky deal would also have to be renegotiated. Hearts won't be playing Premiership football next season.

[huggie1875]

Hibs should give the 50k from Anderson to them. Hearts really are a loathsome little outfit


yep this would really have the maroon mob foaming at the mouth all clubs should do it

[EI255]

Well Tom... it seems the real hardship felt by other clubs still doesn’t make him reassess things.Wish he'd go back to concentrating on egg chasing.

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[EI255]

yep this would really have the maroon mob foaming at the mouth all clubs should do itI don't think the three teams will toil to raise the required funding.

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[Jim44]

Hibs should give the 50k from Anderson to them. Hearts really are a loathsome little outfit

Unfortunately this is not possible, due to the invisible strings attached to this tosser’s attempt to bribe every club in Scotland. Benefactor my erchie.

[Bostonhibby]

Did we really expect anything different from TE??

As for the comments on the DUFC twitter page, did we really expect anything else or different from their classless fans? Bear in mind they are the famous team that pumped local businesses and charities including the Lady Haig Poppy fund.

As for punishment.... they have to be severely dealt with after this but I won’t hold my breath.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkTo prevent a selfish bullying approach by a very small but cash rich minority being able to thwart the wishes of what is a huge majority of the members again, we really need to see a hefty penalty being proposed by the board and agreed by the members to at least set a precedent for the future.



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[Keith_M]

Don't fall into the trap that the only options are to either reinstate Hearts to the Premiership or pay them £10M.

That's their narrative, it doesn't mean it's the only options.

[EVENTUALLY]

Think hibs have a great opportunity to confirm that we stand for the right thing by coming out and publicly supporting the 3 promoted teams and I would like to see some form of financial support too if at all possible. Raith Rovers, in particular, could be put out of business by this madness.

We should redirect 1 month's HSL contributions to the 3 clubs legal fund. Fans taking action and not the club.

[Since452]

I'm really glad that the rest of Scottish football are seeing Hearts for what they are. Skeekit, arrogant, deluded and shameless.

[04Sauzee]

We should redirect 1 month's HSL contributions to the 3 clubs legal fund. Fans taking action and not the club.

We definitely shouldn't

[Pagan Hibernia]

Pompous rich Establishment club trying to bully and buy their way out of a fully deserved relegation.

****.

[JimBHibees]

Don't fall into the trap that only options are to either reinstate Hearts to the Premiership or pay them £10M.

That's their narrative, it doesn't mean it's the only options.

Absolutely the most obvious option is that spfl will be exonerated and have deemed to have followed procedures as per rules.

[Sammy7nil]

Don't fall into the trap that only options are to either reinstate Hearts to the Premiership or pay them £10M.

That's their narrative, it doesn't mean it's the only options.

It may be just natural Hibs pessimism but every time you think that is it over some one always comes out fighting their corner and you just get a bad feeling it will end well for them.

I suppose just like everyone else want this done quickly with them and the Budgie put back in their poisonous box.

[Waxy]

I have a horrible feeling that reconstruction will happen and a 14 team league will be the outcome of the arbitration. Due to the 16 -26 vote on this 14 team reconstruction proposal the last time. I think it will be forced through by executive powers..There is no money to compensate Hearts/Patrick or Dundee Utd/Raith/Cove whatever way the arbitration case goes. We should not pay a penny towards Dundee Utd etc ,as we’ve already lost out to the tune of £150k.
They cant do that. Theyre asking for promotion and relegation to be stopped or compensation. They deserve nothing but kicked out the league.

[fiolex1]

They cant do that. Theyre asking for promotion and relegation to be stopped or compensation. They deserve nothing but kicked out the league.

I hope I’m wrong,

[tamig]

I feel sorry for Raith & Cove but I’m finding it difficult to feel sorry for Dundee Utd here. A club that have been operating at around 130% wages to turnover ratio (I believe) now asking other clubs to help raise funds is a tad ironic.

Their owner has had no issue with chucking cash at them for wages and signings yet they need other clubs to assist with this? Not having that.

I feel sorry for them that they appear to be getting punished for winning their league. I don’t think how they’ve gone about achieving it should come into this.

These clubs don’t deserve to be dragged into this mess.

[Ozyhibby]

We should redirect 1 month's HSL contributions to the 3 clubs legal fund. Fans taking action and not the club.

That money was collected for Hibs. That’s where it should go. No wonder we pay so much tax in this country, everyone is great at spending other people’s money.


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[tamig]

I have a horrible feeling that reconstruction will happen and a 14 team league will be the outcome of the arbitration. Due to the 16 -26 vote on this 14 team reconstruction proposal the last time. I think it will be forced through by executive powers..There is no money to compensate Hearts/Patrick or Dundee Utd/Raith/Cove whatever way the arbitration case goes. We should not pay a penny towards Dundee Utd etc ,as we’ve already lost out to the tune of £150k.
Reconstruction isn’t happening.

[B.H.F.C]

We should redirect 1 month's HSL contributions to the 3 clubs legal fund. Fans taking action and not the club.

Nut. Absolutely not. We’ve got our own worries financially.

Imagine we help Utd out with their legal fees and they put the money saved towards signing a player we want as well.

[tamig]

We should redirect 1 month's HSL contributions to the 3 clubs legal fund. Fans taking action and not the club.

If folk want to donate to help the crowdfunding thats fine. HSL money is all for Hibs. No danger its going anywhere else.

[007]

The three clubs are not the same as the SPFL and have different interests. It is conceivable that the SPFL could say to Hearts 'Ach, you're right; let's settle and halt relegation' and then the three clubs would be shafted. It's also possible for the clubs to have different legal strategies; we've already seen that with the Court of Session motions, where the SPFL was trying to suspend the case in order to arbitrate, while the three clubs went for a dismissal (and they lost that motion).

It's also useful to have two sets of defence arguments. For instance, if there was just one set of defence advocates at the Court of Session, it's possible that the SPFL would have chosen wrongly and went for a dismissal motion instead of the successful sist motion. Having both arguments heard increased the chance that one of them prevailed.

The A92 Alliance must stand strong.

[LancsHibs]

This is going to backfire massively on the maroon flumps😆 They are really digging a bigger and bigger hole.

[Pete]

No wonder we pay so much tax in this country, everyone is great at spending other people’s money.


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Sent from the Tory party HQ more like 😄

[Eyrie]

Hearts have had plenty practice winning the second tier championship over the last 50 years. Rumour has it that if they win the league this season they get to keep it.

I'd prefer it to be the other way round and the lower tier gets to keep Hearts.

[WhileTheChief..]

That money was collected for Hibs. That’s where it should go. No wonder we pay so much tax in this country, everyone is great at spending other people’s money.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

:top marks

[jacomo]

Don't fall into the trap that the only options are to either reinstate Hearts to the Premiership or pay them £10M.

That's their narrative, it doesn't mean it's the only options.


We deserve at least £10m compensation for having to share the same city as them.

[Keith_M]

Absolutely the most obvious option is that spfl will be exonerated and have deemed to have followed procedures as per rules.


That's my PoV as well, Jim.

I personally think the SPFL have taken what they felt was the most appropriate action in an extraordinary situation, held a democratic vote, then given Hearts (and the other clubs) every opportunity to come up with an alternative solution which was agreeable to everybody.

When Hearts then failed to do that, the SPFL practically bent over backwards to help them, with a reconstruction proposal of their own... which also failed.

Done. Finished. The End.

[Lago]

English is intentionally keeping the controversial dialogue in everyone’s face as it gives him meat to get his twisted, biased teeth into and keep him in a job. The Beeb will be loving him.
I'm really beginning to wonder if he's to Hearts what Traynor was to rangers, seriously there's a personal agenda at play.

[Onion]

I have a horrible feeling that reconstruction will happen and a 14 team league will be the outcome of the arbitration. Due to the 16 -26 vote on this 14 team reconstruction proposal the last time. I think it will be forced through by executive powers..There is no money to compensate Hearts/Patrick or Dundee Utd/Raith/Cove whatever way the arbitration case goes. We should not pay a penny towards Dundee Utd etc ,as we’ve already lost out to the tune of £150k.

Hearts will not be playing in the top league next season. Arbitration panel will not have the power to reinstate them or to reorganise the whole of football in Scotland. If they do find for some reason that the Dundee vote was suspect, the panel will simply demand a re-vote. At that stage, does anyone think Hearts and Partick have a better or worse chance of being saved by the 40 ?

The very very best Hearts could hope for is a bit of extra money to compensate for the opportunity they lost to avoid relegation - somewhere in region of £300 - 500k. Their claim for £8M is beyond fantasy.

Hearts have failed at every turn in this whole sorry saga. Their chances of this turning in their favour late in the game are as good as their team avoiding relegation.

[Joe6-2]

I've looked at a few currency exchange websites but can't find 'The Maroon Pound' on any of them.


Is it maybe some kind of Virtual Currency?

:dunno:

S hit coin

[Eyrie]

Absolutely the most obvious option is that spfl will be exonerated and have deemed to have followed procedures as per rules.

Preferably with full costs awarded against Hearts and Partick.

[The 90+2]

I still don’t understand why they have to pay to defend this when they ********s case is against the SPFL now?

[EVENTUALLY]

If folk want to donate to help the crowdfunding thats fine. HSL money is all for Hibs. No danger its going anywhere else.

So if Hibs announce they're making a £25k donation to the 3 clubs legal fund, would you be ok with it that way round.

I do think their defence is worthy of some financial support. I'll contribute and hopefully other Hibbies will too. Despite missing the derbies I think it is to Hibs advantage for Hearts to be operating in a lower division.

[chippy]

We should redirect 1 month's HSL contributions to the 3 clubs legal fund. Fans taking action and not the club.

No way. Disagree totally , do that and watch donations crash. It’s up to the Spfl board, money could be top sliced from tv deal

[chippy]

So if Hibs announce they're making a £25k donation to the 3 clubs legal fund, would you be ok with it that way round.

I do think their defence is worthy of some financial support. I'll contribute and hopefully other Hibbies will too. Despite missing the derbies I think it is to Hibs advantage for Hearts to be operating in a lower diversion.

No way. This is on the spfl board. It’s up to them. Top slice the tv deal that’ll pay for it.

[007]

That's what he's after extreme reactions. He's a **** stirrer.

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Tits like him just want followers because that's how they measure their relevance. I avoid following people like him because I don't want to increase his numbers and I just read his tweets when some posts a link here.

It would be good if we could have a mega thread that gets feeds in from Twitter (in a similar way to how there's a feed from the official site) for tits like TE when they post something. That way, any that currently follow him could all unfollow him and it would just be the 1 Hibs.net follower.

[hibeerealist]

Despicable club with a support to match, SHAMELESS!

[Waxy]

I still don’t understand why they have to pay to defend this when they ********s case is against the SPFL now?

Well thats what i thought. Its out of the court system now.The SFA should be saying its the league against hearts and Partick now.
The SPFL board and clubs combined promoted the three champions. They shouldnt need to protect anything. Hearts and Partick really need sanctioned heavily here. This is a disgrace from them.

[Sammy7nil]

Well thats what i thought. Its out of the court system now.The SFA should be saying its the league against hearts and Partick now.
The SPFL board and clubs combined promoted the three champions. They shouldnt need to protect anything. Hearts and Partick really need sanctioned heavily here. This is a disgrace from them.

I think Lord Clarke saved them from a sanction as they were not able to take this to court so technically no rule had been broken. There was no court case only a decision where the case should be heard. :dunno::dunno:

[poolman]

I hope I’m wrong,

Calm Doon, not gonna happen

[Onion]

I think Lord Clarke saved them from a sanction as they were not able to take this to court so technically no rule had been broken. There was no court case only a decision where the case should be heard. :dunno::dunno:

So someone who tries to break into a house and fails is free to walk ? Hmm. that's the kind of argument you'd expect on BenefactorsRkeepingUsAfloatback. They'll have their day of reckoning. They're just too dumb and arrogant to see it. Revenge is best served cold :greengrin

[tamig]

So if Hibs announce they're making a £25k donation to the 3 clubs legal fund, would you be ok with it that way round.

I do think their defence is worthy of some financial support. I'll contribute and hopefully other Hibbies will too. Despite missing the derbies I think it is to Hibs advantage for Hearts to be operating in a lower division.
Like I said, if folk want to chip in for the crowdfunding - go for it. I’ll be contributing. My HSL cash goes to the on the pitch product. I don’t think Hibs will be contributing anything like 25k.

[Carheenlea]

I can`t see clubs queuing up to support Dundee Utd`s plea for assistance. All through this process individual clubs have made decisions and voted on what they viewed as best for their clubs and for the leagues going forward - it was never about club v club.
If clubs start aligning themselves with Dundee Utd and others then civil war could break out and wreak havoc at a time we are getting the game back up and running in Scotland. Hibs in particular will be one who should be steering well clear.

Crowd fund by all means, but leave the clubs out of it.

[The 90+2]

Well thats what i thought. Its out of the court system now.The SFA should be saying its the league against hearts and Partick now.
The SPFL board and clubs combined promoted the three champions. They shouldnt need to protect anything. Hearts and Partick really need sanctioned heavily here. This is a disgrace from them.

Yeah exactly. Even Dundee Utds petition to get the thing kicked out failed so surely it’s just the two **** teams against the SPFL? Mental it should cost them anything for having the audacity of winning their leagues? Isn’t that why Stranraer aren’t involved with them as it was too costly?

[EI255]

Hearts will not be playing in the top league next season. Arbitration panel will not have the power to reinstate them or to reorganise the whole of football in Scotland. If they do find for some reason that the Dundee vote was suspect, the panel will simply demand a re-vote. At that stage, does anyone think Hearts and Partick have a better or worse chance of being saved by the 40 ?

The very very best Hearts could hope for is a bit of extra money to compensate for the opportunity they lost to avoid relegation - somewhere in region of £300 - 500k. Their claim for £8M is beyond fantasy.

Hearts have failed at every turn in this whole sorry saga. Their chances of this turning in their favour late in the game are as good as their team avoiding relegation.I'm with you on this one. The best and probably only realistic chance Hearts have is some kind of compensation. However, it certainly will not be anywhere near the fantasy figure they so desperately seek. They have no chance at arbitration.

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[hibeerealist]

Yeah exactly. Even Dundee Utds petition to get the thing kicked out failed so surely it’s just the two **** teams against the SPFL? Mental it should cost them anything for having the audacity of winning their leagues? Isn’t that why Stranraer aren’t involved with them as it was too costly?

Yep, Stranraer could not join in for lack of funds!


PT were in the same boat until some unnamed beneficiary offered to cover their costs, wonder if it was one of Hertz benefactors (it has been confirmed it is not J Anderson) as bringing PT into the equation would be seen as helping Hertz given the decision to call the leagues was harshest on PT, would not put it past that conniving lot to ask one of their Bennys to do so.

[Onion]

I'm with you on this one. The best and probably only realistic chance Hearts have is some kind of compensation. However, it certainly will not be anywhere near the fantasy figure they so desperately seek. They have no chance at arbitration.

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:agree: The Arbitration panel is appointed by the SFA. Can anyone in their right mind see the SFA allowing or being party to a process that threatens to make a large number of their members go out of business (through no fault of themselves) for the sake of a club that appears to have multiple sources of endless revenue and the biggest chip on it's shoulder ?

Just not going to happen.

[Greenworld]

:agree: The Arbitration panel is appointed by the SFA. Can anyone in their right mind see the SFA allowing or being party to a process that threatens to make a large number of their members go out of business (through no fault of themselves) for the sake of a club that appears to have multiple sources of endless revenue and the biggest chip on it's shoulder ?

Just not going to happen.Thats not strictly true the panel is picked by Hearts and SPFL , the final chairman is picked by the two judges / sheriff's.


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[greenpaper55]

Hearts actions will really hurt Raith, i wonder if the benefactor is happy that his cash donations to Hearts are being used to try and trash Scottish football ?

[Lago]

The sooner this is wrapped up the better.

[Kato]

Thats not strictly true the panel is picked by Hearts and SPFL , the final chairman is picked by the two judges / sheriff's.


Sent from my SM-G975U1 using TapatalkAll from a list which has already been nominated by the SFA.

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[Peevemor]

Yeah exactly. Even Dundee Utds petition to get the thing kicked out failed so surely it’s just the two **** teams against the SPFL? Mental it should cost them anything for having the audacity of winning their leagues? Isn’t that why Stranraer aren’t involved with them as it was too costly?The judge said that HMFC/PT's original petition was to be presented to go to arbitration in an effort to expedite matters.

If you read today's statements from the concerned clubs, they explain that they don't want to risk withdrawing their defence.

I don't see what's difficult to understand.

[FilipinoHibs]

All from a list which has already been nominated by the SFA.

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Hearts are not picking a panel member that supports them. All panel members are independent and acting objectively. I am sure there are no huns/junior huns on the SFA list.

[weecounty hibby]

So no club should be unfairly disadvantaged say hearts. They were fairly relegated as they were bottom of the league when the season ended. They now want to unfairly disadvantage Dundee United, Raith and Five who actually won their leagues. So to be clear the clubs who were absolutely pish all season, hearts and Partick want to gain an ADVANTAGE by avoiding relegation and **** over the actual league winners. And let's not feel sorry for Partick either they were absolute dug***** all season just like hearts. They were actually well behind two part time clubs. So sorry for me they have no sympathy and are almost as bad as hearts. **** them both and they need to be punished for what they have done. Big fine and points deduction is the right thing to do

[Danderhall Hibs]

The Terrace podcast covered this yesterday - it was good to hear a non-partisan side of the argument. One is a Killie fan and the other Dundee - lots of agreement with many of the posts on here.

[calumhibee1]

So no club should be unfairly disadvantaged say hearts. They were fairly relegated as they were bottom of the league when the season ended. They now want to unfairly disadvantage Dundee United, Raith and Five who actually won their leagues. So to be clear the clubs who were absolutely pish all season, hearts and Partick want to gain an ADVANTAGE by avoiding relegation and **** over the actual league winners. And let's not feel sorry for Partick either they were absolute dug***** all season just like hearts. They were actually well behind two part time clubs. So sorry for me they have no sympathy and are almost as bad as hearts. **** them both and they need to be punished for what they have done. Big fine and points deduction is the right thing to do

I sometimes feel a bit sorry for Partick. They’ve been roped into this by Hearts purely for Hearts benefit, not because Hearts are on a crusade for justice for all.

Then I remember they agreed to it and I think **** them.

[Peevemor]

I sometimes feel a bit sorry for Partick. They’ve been roped into this by Hearts purely for Hearts benefit, not because Hearts are on a crusade for justice for all.

Then I remember they agreed to it and I think **** them.

Like a lot of people I have a wee soft spot for Partick. However I have no time whatsoever for Jacqui Low and I think we can put this one down to her.

[bingo70]

I saw someone tweeted Alan Nixon (sun journalist and Partick fan) what his thoughts on arbitration were. His reply was short and sweet but for me it sums it up and is how I would feel if it was Hibs involved.

“Leaves me cold. Shouldn’t need to be chasing cases like this. Finished bottom because we had poor appointments and signings. Bottom. Behind part time teams we couldn’t beat. Nah. Not for me.”

The idea that if Hibs were involved I would automatically be the same as what Hearts fans are like just now annoys me.

[Spike Mandela]

Hearts are not picking a panel member that supports them. All panel members are independent and acting objectively. I am sure there are no huns/junior huns on the SFA list.

Really??? I expect it is loaded with them.

Let’s hope it’s not Lord Nimmo Smith.

[bod]

Like a lot of people I have a wee soft spot for Partick. However I have no time whatsoever for Jacqui Low and I think we can put this one down to her.

I felt the same, was even considering buying one of their season tickets then returning it for some random to use but not now.

[Joe6-2]

Really??? I expect it is loaded with them.

Let’s hope it’s not Lord Nimmo Smith.

Sorry if it’s been mentioned, but when will we hear who it is and when it starts?

[weecounty hibby]

Like a lot of people I have a wee soft spot for Partick. However I have no time whatsoever for Jacqui Low and I think we can put this one down to her.
Not for me anymore. Used to have respect for any club in the west that wasn't the OF but they have acted just like the Hun would. They were totally brutal all season, poor managers poor players and now want to try to stuff successful teams to their benefit.

[Radium]

I sometimes feel a bit sorry for Partick. They’ve been roped into this by Hearts purely for Hearts benefit, not because Hearts are on a crusade for justice for all.

Then I remember they agreed to it and I think **** them.

The problem is that they have chosen the all or nothing approach, particularly with regards reconstruction. They could be playing in a 12 team championship but no compromise was considered around the Hearts relegation.


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[green day]

If there is a degree of unhappiness with Hearts and PTFC around their current strategy, that is nothing to what will happen if they (and Stranraer) are given a place in the Premiership / Championship / League 1 at the expense of clubs who won these slots through sporting merit.

Also, If a huge financial settlement was made to Hearts / PTFC and as a consequence destroyed several others (which is entirely likely), their pariah status would be complete.

Those facts wont be lost on the people who will make up the arbitration panel.

IMO the absolute best they can hope for is acknowledgement of their losses and a few quid to compensate. That figure wont be anything like what they demanded.

[FilipinoHibs]

Really??? I expect it is loaded with them.

Let’s hope it’s not Lord Nimmo Smith.

SFA came ip with the list. It is not a static list. Can't see SFA puting forward names that will be sympathetic to the wee huns. Like shooting yourself in the foot.

[hibeerealist]

So no club should be unfairly disadvantaged say hearts. They were fairly relegated as they were bottom of the league when the season ended. They now want to unfairly disadvantage Dundee United, Raith and Five who actually won their leagues. So to be clear the clubs who were absolutely pish all season, hearts and Partick want to gain an ADVANTAGE by avoiding relegation and **** over the actual league winners. And let's not feel sorry for Partick either they were absolute dug***** all season just like hearts. They were actually well behind two part time clubs. So sorry for me they have no sympathy and are almost as bad as hearts. **** them both and they need to be punished for what they have done. Big fine and points deduction is the right thing to do

Yes and both clubs have benefited from generous financial support of Ben E Factors

[JimBHibees]

The Terrace podcast covered this yesterday - it was good to hear a non-partisan side of the argument. One is a Killie fan and the other Dundee - lots of agreement with many of the posts on here.

Think I will need to listen to that to keep me sane. :greengrin

[greenginger]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53292819

I can’t see it being James Anderson funding their legal expenses.

More likely it’ll be the Foundation of Hearts putting up the dosh.

[Since452]

Partick Thistle are a shambles at boardroom level. They've chopped and changed personnel so much over the last few years. It's no wonder they are also shambolic on the park. These things tend to trickle down the way. Very much like Hearts actually. No coincidence both clubs were toiling at the bottom. Partick Thistle are a club that most Scottish football fans don't mind, mainly because of who they have to share a city with but they have made a huge error of judgement on numerous levels by getting in to bed with Hearts. A strong management would never have allowed that to happen. Hell mend them.

[JimBHibees]

I saw someone tweeted Alan Nixon (sun journalist and Partick fan) what his thoughts on arbitration were. His reply was short and sweet but for me it sums it up and is how I would feel if it was Hibs involved.

“Leaves me cold. Shouldn’t need to be chasing cases like this. Finished bottom because we had poor appointments and signings. Bottom. Behind part time teams we couldn’t beat. Nah. Not for me.”

The idea that if Hibs were involved I would automatically be the same as what Hearts fans are like just now annoys me.

I would like to think Hibs would have taken their medicine when the final reconstruction bid failed as Hearts should have. Unfortunately for Hearts they had no real leadership at all but a hysterical charlatan blaming everyone else for the situation her club found themselves in. More humility with other clubs she was hoping to vote for her proposal would have helped also such as actually speaking to other smaller clubs which Donald Findlay clearly clarified didn't happen with Cowdenbeath. A mix of hysteria, stupidity and arrogance is never a good mix.

Nixons tweet is spot on.

[JimBHibees]

The problem is that they have chosen the all or nothing approach, particularly with regards reconstruction. They could be playing in a 12 team championship but no compromise was considered around the Hearts relegation.


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Agree Thistle should have forced Budge into putting a 12 12 10 10 through which imo would have got much better support though obviously they didn't have the bottle to do it or allowed Budge to kybosh it.

[JimBHibees]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53292819

I can’t see it being James Anderson funding their legal expenses.

More likely it’ll be the Foundation of Hearts putting up the dosh.

Also maybe the family of the lottery winner who sadly died recently wh has been funding them.

[oldbutdim]

Sorry if it’s been mentioned, but when will we hear who it is and when it starts?

I'm not sure we will be given names. A pal of mine is on the SFA list of 'worthies' who do appeals etc, and it's a condition that names are kept confidential. Many on the list have said they will pull out if their identity is known.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm not sure we will be given names. A pal of mine is on the SFA list of 'worthies' who do appeals etc, and it's a condition that names are kept confidential. Many on the list have said they will pull out if their identity is known.

Wonder who the Jambo Ally McCoist will be?


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[Pagan Hibernia]

I would like to think Hibs would have taken their medicine when the final reconstruction bid failed as Hearts should have. Unfortunately for Hearts they had no real leadership at all but a hysterical charlatan blaming everyone else for the situation her club found themselves in. More humility with other clubs she was hoping to vote for her proposal would have helped also such as actually speaking to other smaller clubs which Donald Findlay clearly clarified didn't happen with Cowdenbeath. A mix of hysteria, stupidity and arrogance is never a good mix.

Nixons tweet is spot on.

they also have a ridiculously arrogant, borderline psychotic, cult-like support who foam at the mouth at the merest suggestion that their club has done anything wrong

if hibs were in their position I would certainly be annoyed, but I’d have the maturity to realise it was all our own doing through years of poor management from top to bottom

[AltheHibby]

I'm not sure we will be given names. A pal of mine is on the SFA list of 'worthies' who do appeals etc, and it's a condition that names are kept confidential. Many on the list have said they will pull out if their identity is known.

I don't blame them for pulling out if known. Given the history of lunatic supporters in football they would be mad to stay if known.

[Marco G]

I'm not sure we will be given names. A pal of mine is on the SFA list of 'worthies' who do appeals etc, and it's a condition that names are kept confidential. Many on the list have said they will pull out if their identity is known.SFA said names are not given unless the person is happy with it.

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[Keith_M]

... Many on the list have said they will pull out if their identity is known.


Are you saying they're all Celtc Fans?

[oldbutdim]

I don't blame them for pulling out if known. Given the history of lunatic supporters in football they would be mad to stay if known.

Absolutely.

If my chum gives a decision which is unfavourable to Hibs, I'll be shopping him here.

[matty_f]

I saw someone tweeted Alan Nixon (sun journalist and Partick fan) what his thoughts on arbitration were. His reply was short and sweet but for me it sums it up and is how I would feel if it was Hibs involved.

“Leaves me cold. Shouldn’t need to be chasing cases like this. Finished bottom because we had poor appointments and signings. Bottom. Behind part time teams we couldn’t beat. Nah. Not for me.”

The idea that if Hibs were involved I would automatically be the same as what Hearts fans are like just now annoys me.

Your last paragraph sums my thoughts up exactly. I was having a conversation with Tom English yesterday about the situation on the back of his tweet about Dundee United’s statement yesterday.

He made the point that I’d be the same if it was Hibs, and even though i explained I’m a pragmatist and would accept it, pointing to us dropping a place, losing much needed revenue and a chance of a European slot as being necessary under the circumstances, I was still labelled a hypocrite.

We shouldn’t be judged by their standards, and I’d be really disappointed with the club if we were doing what Hearts are now, having brought as little to the table as they have up to this point.

[green day]

Your last paragraph sums my thoughts up exactly. I was having a conversation with Tom English yesterday about the situation on the back of his tweet about Dundee United’s statement yesterday.

He made the point that I’d be the same if it was Hibs, and even though i explained I’m a pragmatist and would accept it, pointing to us dropping a place, losing much needed revenue and a chance of a European slot as being necessary under the circumstances, I was still labelled a hypocrite.

We shouldn’t be judged by their standards, and I’d be really disappointed with the club if we were doing what Hearts are now, having brought as little to the table as they have up to this point.

I wondered just how Tom English was going to spin the Utd statement against them, and was not surprised at how he reacted to your (and others) questioning his stance.

His broad take later was that he felt all the clubs had been unfairly dealt with, and his backtracking was pathetic.

His first reaction was simply "how can you blame Hearts and Partick" when any rational commentator might have said "I support Utd/Raith/Cove, as they deserve to go up".

Obviously he has not touched the thorny issue of Budge being comfy at Celtic winning the league..............

[Danderhall Hibs]

Think I will need to listen to that to keep me sane. :greengrin

It was good to hear the non “mainstream media” thoughts on it. As fans of clubs not involved and with mates that are Hearts fans they put their point across well - and it was the same as what many of us have been saying.

[hibbydad]

Your last paragraph sums my thoughts up exactly. I was having a conversation with Tom English yesterday about the situation on the back of his tweet about Dundee United’s statement yesterday.

He made the point that I’d be the same if it was Hibs, and even though i explained I’m a pragmatist and would accept it, pointing to us dropping a place, losing much needed revenue and a chance of a European slot as being necessary under the circumstances, I was still labelled a hypocrite.

We shouldn’t be judged by their standards, and I’d be really disappointed with the club if we were doing what Hearts are now, having brought as little to the table as they have up to this point.
I totally agree with you Matty and you are not a hypocrite I too would be disappointed if Hibs were behaving the way they are

[jacomo]

Tom English is now justifying his stance by saying every club would have acted the same as Hearts if they were in their position.

This is, quite obviously, nothing more than baseless speculation.

[Brunswickbill]

Yes and both clubs have benefited from generous financial support of Ben E Factors

Is it a coincidence that Hearts and Partick failed, having relied on large financial contributions from third parties? Maybe similar to Sunderland where the second documentary suggested reliance on outside finance led to poor management and sloppy financial control with mistakes being covered by spending other people’s money.

[JimBHibees]

Tom English is now justifying his stance by saying every club would have acted the same as Hearts if they were in their position.

This is, quite obviously, nothing more than baseless speculation.

He is lying again.

[Kato]

Tom English is now justifying his stance by saying every club would have acted the same as Hearts if they were in their position.

This is, quite obviously, nothing more than baseless speculation.Not every club has personalities like Deans and Budge attached to them.



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[grunt]

I was having a conversation with Tom English yesterday about the situation on the back of his tweet about Dundee United’s statement yesterday.I saw your discussion and I thought you put your points forward clearly and logically. For English to finish up with his conclusion that there had been "consensus but no resolution" was absurd. But just what I'd expect from him.

[Sammy7nil]

Tom English is now justifying his stance by saying every club would have acted the same as Hearts if they were in their position.

This is, quite obviously, nothing more than baseless speculation.

Every club would have whined, moaned and fought their corner however when over 80% of clubs are against not once or twice but more I would have hoped Hibs and the fans would have accepted it.

Where Hearts want to Burn, Kill, Destroy SPFL scorched earth.

[GonzoReturns]

I saw your discussion and I thought you put your points forward clearly and logically. For English to finish up with his conclusion that there had been "consensus but no resolution" was absurd. But just what I'd expect from him.

Agreed 👍👍

[Onion]

Tom English is now justifying his stance by saying every club would have acted the same as Hearts if they were in their position.

This is, quite obviously, nothing more than baseless speculation.

A reflection of the man's judgement and shows just how out of touch he is with Scottish football. Better stick to Rugger.

[jacomo]

A reflection of the man's judgement and shows just how out of touch he is with Scottish football. Better stick to Rugger.


His judgement is way off. But it’s his refusal to acknowledge and explore the other side of the debate which makes his job untenable imo.

If he wants to be a highly opinionated pundit, he’s welcome to join the queue. As BBC Scotland’s chief sports writer, he simply should not be so myopic.

He is justifying his position by making entirely unfounded assertions, which is also beyond his role as a BBC journalist.

[Jim44]

Tom English is now justifying his stance by saying every club would have acted the same as Hearts if they were in their position.

This is, quite obviously, nothing more than baseless speculation.

I think we would have been as aggrieved as any club would be if we were in their shoes. We would have explored any reasonable avenue open to us to remedy the situation in our favour but I have no doubt that we would have stopped short of legal action.

[JimBHibees]

His judgement is way off. But it’s his refusal to acknowledge and explore the other side of the debate which makes his job untenable imo.

If he wants to be a highly opinionated pundit, he’s welcome to join the queue. As BBC Scotland’s chief sports writer, he simply should not be so myopic.

He is justifying his position by making entirely unfounded assertions, which is also beyond his role as a BBC journalist.

Just glad all things considered he won't be getting his bonus at this rate. :greengrin

[FilipinoHibs]

I think we would have been as aggrieved as any club would be if we were in their shoes. We would have explored any reasonable avenue open to us to remedy the situation in our favour but I have no doubt that we would have stopped short of legal action.

I think LD and Ron are too logical to have gone down the Budge/Deans route. Maybe focusing on trying to play the season out and have a truncated one next season.

[AltheHibby]

Tom English is now justifying his stance by saying every club would have acted the same as Hearts if they were in their position.

This is, quite obviously, nothing more than baseless speculation.

If he was right, Stranraer would be in it with the other 2.

[Joe6-2]

I'm not sure we will be given names. A pal of mine is on the SFA list of 'worthies' who do appeals etc, and it's a condition that names are kept confidential. Many on the list have said they will pull out if their identity is known.

Thanks 👍

[tomf]

Your last paragraph sums my thoughts up exactly. I was having a conversation with Tom English yesterday about the situation on the back of his tweet about Dundee United’s statement yesterday.

He made the point that I’d be the same if it was Hibs, and even though i explained I’m a pragmatist and would accept it, pointing to us dropping a place, losing much needed revenue and a chance of a European slot as being necessary under the circumstances, I was still labelled a hypocrite.

We shouldn’t be judged by their standards, and I’d be really disappointed with the club if we were doing what Hearts are now, having brought as little to the table as they have up to this point.

That comes as no surprise. A reasonably fair, open-minded investigative journalist would have been looking at all sides of the argument right from the start. Instead TE has relentlessly pursued the Heart victim / gaslighting line. As I have said before, Hibs (the club and the fans) accepted the situation where our nearest local rivals attempted to buy us over and put us out of existence, we accepted defeat in a cup final refereed by a man whose stats clearly showed a bias for our opponents and against us, we accepted tough financial decisions whilst others were beating us due to financial doping, we accepted being relegated when it should never have happened. I think we can say that Hibs have taken their medicine when we've had to and just got on with it and we are a better team, club and set of supporters for that. That's the Hibs way. TE needs to look at finding similar examples from Hearts history before he starts labeling anyone a hypocrite.

[Since452]

I work up in Dundee and let's just say this, Hearts won't be welcomed with open arms the next time the clubs meet.

[HoboHarry]

When is arbitration meant to happen?

[Lunatic]

I think LD and Ron are too logical to have gone down the Budge/Deans route. Maybe focusing on trying to play the season out and have a truncated one next season.

Which would have had even less chance of success than reconstruction. The new TV deal is much more money. Any plan would have had to allow next season to go ahead as normal.
Reconstruction of the top flight is impossible because it's 4 OF derbies or NO. 12 teams 6-6 split is the least bad way for that to happen.

[Ozyhibby]

Tom English is now justifying his stance by saying every club would have acted the same as Hearts if they were in their position.

This is, quite obviously, nothing more than baseless speculation.

Stranraer didn’t.


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[JimBHibees]

When is arbitration meant to happen?

Sooner the better.

[flash]

Stranraer didn’t.


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Nor did a single English lower division team.

[Just Alf]

They really are the club that won't flush... Hopefully the knitting needle (arbitration) does its job!


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[G B Young]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53307138

This has been mentioned before on here I think, but the sentence which jumps out (and is one the BBC continue to drop into any related story) is this:

Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer had their demotions confirmed when clubs failed to support league reconstruction to extend the top flight from 12 teams to 14.

The correct terminology here should surely be something like "clubs decisively rejected". Instead the implication is that there was some sort of dereliction of duty by the clubs to back Budge's plans and that if only they'd rallied round everything would have been OK. I think it's sloppy and would go so far as to suggest it's a deliberate attempt to create a false narrative around the issue. Maybe Tom English wrote it...

[Del Boy]

I work up in Dundee and let's just say this, Hearts won't be welcomed with open arms the next time the clubs meet.

Correct. Couple my mates are Arabs and very laid back most of the time, both absolutely stunned by what Hearts are doing and unlikely to be very forgiving regardless of final outcome. Can’t blame them.

[oldbutdim]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53307138

This has been mentioned before on here I think, but the sentence which jumps out (and is one the BBC continue to drop into any related story) is this:

Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer had their demotions confirmed when clubs failed to support league reconstruction to extend the top flight from 12 teams to 14.

The correct terminology here should surely be something like "clubs decisively rejected". Instead the implication is that there was some sort of dereliction of duty by the clubs to back Budge's plans and that if only they'd rallied round everything would have been OK. I think it's sloppy and would go so far as to suggest it's a deliberate attempt to create a false narrative around the issue. Maybe Tom English wrote it...

Exactly.

Manipulative reporting.

[Kato]

Tom English is now justifying his stance by saying every club would have acted the same as Hearts if they were in their position.

This is, quite obviously, nothing more than baseless speculation.It's a sign of his pig headedness and arrogance that he imagines he knows how every club and every set of fans would react.

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[Bostonhibby]

It's a sign of his pig headedness and arrogance that he imagines he knows how every club and every set of fans would react.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using TapatalkTop man at BBC sport Scotland so he knows best, do mind your place. Bet Scottish rugby are delighted at his new priorities.

Come the revolution.

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[Paisley Hibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53307138

This has been mentioned before on here I think, but the sentence which jumps out (and is one the BBC continue to drop into any related story) is this:

Hearts, Thistle and Stranraer had their demotions confirmed when clubs failed to support league reconstruction to extend the top flight from 12 teams to 14.

The correct terminology here should surely be something like "clubs decisively rejected". Instead the implication is that there was some sort of dereliction of duty by the clubs to back Budge's plans and that if only they'd rallied round everything would have been OK. I think it's sloppy and would go so far as to suggest it's a deliberate attempt to create a false narrative around the issue. Maybe Tom English wrote it...

Actually they were relegated when the clubs voted unanimously (including Hertz) to call the league. Everything after that was about trying to find a way of promoting them back up. And if you think about it, why would Hearts and ICT necessarily have got the extra two places in the SPFL. Why not Dundee or Ayr who were both in with a chance of making the play offs when the league was called.

The fact that they think they've been "relegated" several times more since just adds to the pleasure of watching this whole disaster play out.

[weecounty hibby]

Top man at BBC sport Scotland so he knows best, do mind your place. Bet Scottish rugby are delighted at his new priorities.

Come the revolution.

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Believe me, as a rugby fan I am delighted he is focussing on another sport. Sadly as a football fan I am scunnered that he chose football. Wish he would piss off to golf where he and that other Jambo apologist Murray could get all worked up together. English is a complete fud no matter what sport he is talking about

[RyeSloan]

Sooner the better.

I assume Hearts have to formally complain / moan / go greetin’ to the SFA for the process to formally start?

If so has there been any indication that they have done so yet?

[Bostonhibby]

Actually they were relegated when the clubs voted unanimously (including Hertz) to call the league. Everything after that was about trying to find a way of promoting them back up. And if you think about it, why would Hearts and ICT necessarily have got the extra two places in the SPFL. Why not Dundee or Ayr who were both in with a chance of making the play offs when the league was called.Yep, play on words.

There was no failure to support. They overwhelmingly successfully supported the position that wasn't the Hearts and Partick Alliance one.

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[grunt]

The correct terminology here should surely be something like "clubs decisively rejected". Instead the implication is that there was some sort of dereliction of duty by the clubs to back Budge's plans and that if only they'd rallied round everything would have been OK. I think it's sloppy and would go so far as to suggest it's a deliberate attempt to create a false narrative around the issue. Maybe Tom English wrote it...


Exactly. Manipulative reporting.This is slightly off topic, so I'm going to say this just the once. But what you've just experienced in seeing the way BBC Scotland manipulate the news agenda is what supporters of the SNP and Independence experience on a daily basis. This skewing of the news story so it fits their own agenda has been going on for years, and I'm only mildly surprised to see it used in support of the establishment club.

[CapitalGreen]

I assume Hearts have to formally complain / moan / go greetin’ to the SFA for the process to formally start?

If so has there been any indication that they have done so yet?

Yes it’s started.

https://www.scottishfa.co.uk/news/notice-of-referral-to-arbitration/?rid=14258

[AltheHibby]

This is slightly off topic, so I'm going to say this just the once. But what you've just experienced in seeing the way BBC Scotland manipulate the news agenda is what supporters of the SNP and Independence experience on a daily basis. This skewing of the news story so it fits their own agenda has been going on for years, and I'm only mildly surprised to see it used in support of the establishment club.

Let's keep the politics out of this thread.

[marinello59]

Let's keep the politics out of this thread.

Saved me from saying it. The Holy Ground is where that stuff belongs.

[CockneyRebel]

Saved me from saying it. The Holy Ground is where that stuff belongs.


Bit pot and kettle anyway.

[FilipinoHibs]

Which would have had even less chance of success than reconstruction. The new TV deal is much more money. Any plan would have had to allow next season to go ahead as normal.
Reconstruction of the top flight is impossible because it's 4 OF derbies or NO. 12 teams 6-6 split is the least bad way for that to happen.

I think it would have been possible to finish season in August - two games per week. Started new season in September. Have the split after two rounds and play each team twice after split. This would have kept 4 old firm games. It would have been possible to renegotiate with Sky over this. Interim payments could have been made to keep clubs afloat. Not saying it would have worked or be backed by the clubs but a bit more creative and less antagonistic than what Hearts have come up with.

[tamig]

I think it would have been possible to finish season in August - two games per week. Started new season in September. Have the split after two rounds and play each team twice after split. This would have kept 4 old firm games. It would have been possible to renegotiate with Sky over this. Interim payments could have been made to keep clubs afloat. Not saying it would have worked or be backed by the clubs but a bit more creative and less antagonistic than what Hearts have come up with.
Why though? UEFA directive was that the league seasons have to complete by the end of this month. We as a country have never been in a position to achieve that. Something our pink pals seem to overlook.

[Drewster]

I think it would have been possible to finish season in August - two games per week. Started new season in September. Have the split after two rounds and play each team twice after split. This would have kept 4 old firm games. It would have been possible to renegotiate with Sky over this. Interim payments could have been made to keep clubs afloat. Not saying it would have worked or be backed by the clubs but a bit more creative and less antagonistic than what Hearts have come up with.


Most of the squads were depleted by the beginining of June - a number of Clubs with less than 11 senior players left. It was never going to be possible to complete the season - hence the resolution from the SPFL - short of a major reconstruction which would never be agreed - this was probably the only solution - harsh on the relegated Clubs, but statistically and sportingly fair - based on the previous 80% of the season/games played.

[Eyrie]

Most of the squads were depleted by the beginining of June - a number of Clubs with less than 11 senior players left. It was never going to be possible to complete the season - hence the resolution from the SPFL - short of a major reconstruction which would never be agreed - this was probably the only solution - harsh on the relegated Clubs, but statistically and sportingly fair - based on the previous 80% of the season/games played.

:top marks

[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

Absolutely.

If my chum gives a decision which is unfavourable to Hibs, I'll be shopping him here.

:greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

I think it would have been possible to finish season in August - two games per week. Started new season in September. Have the split after two rounds and play each team twice after split. This would have kept 4 old firm games. It would have been possible to renegotiate with Sky over this. Interim payments could have been made to keep clubs afloat. Not saying it would have worked or be backed by the clubs but a bit more creative and less antagonistic than what Hearts have come up with.

The part time teams wouldn't have gone for it, as their players get laid off at the end of the season. And the SPFL are very wary about interim payments, after the Gretna experience.

[Greenworld]

I think it would have been possible to finish season in August - two games per week. Started new season in September. Have the split after two rounds and play each team twice after split. This would have kept 4 old firm games. It would have been possible to renegotiate with Sky over this. Interim payments could have been made to keep clubs afloat. Not saying it would have worked or be backed by the clubs but a bit more creative and less antagonistic than what Hearts have come up with.What a strange thing to say at this stage of proceedings. Many reasons why it was not possible, all have been well documented.

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[McD]

I think it would have been possible to finish season in August - two games per week. Started new season in September. Have the split after two rounds and play each team twice after split. This would have kept 4 old firm games. It would have been possible to renegotiate with Sky over this. Interim payments could have been made to keep clubs afloat. Not saying it would have worked or be backed by the clubs but a bit more creative and less antagonistic than what Hearts have come up with.



it’s not really just 2 games a week, it’s 3 games in 7 or 8 days, then 4 games in 10 days. That’s possible in short bursts, such as over Christmas, but it’s not sustainable to run an entire season like that, players need a chance to recover properly from the rigours of playing, otherwise they’d be dropping like flies with muscular and wear-and-tear injuries.

then we’d need to factor in smaller squads because of the lack of income that we’re seeing now, so even less chance to rotate players and therefore increased risk of injury.

Lastly, players would never really get any time on the training ground to work on improving their skills individually or collectively, because they’d always be recovering from yesterday’s game then immediately into preparation for the next game which is likely to be the day after tomorrow. And we haven’t considered when do they get a day off

[FilipinoHibs]

it’s not really just 2 games a week, it’s 3 games in 7 or 8 days, then 4 games in 10 days. That’s possible in short bursts, such as over Christmas, but it’s not sustainable to run an entire season like that, players need a chance to recover properly from the rigours of playing, otherwise they’d be dropping like flies with muscular and wear-and-tear injuries.

then we’d need to factor in smaller squads because of the lack of income that we’re seeing now, so even less chance to rotate players and therefore increased risk of injury.

Lastly, players would never really get any time on the training ground to work on improving their skills individually or collectively, because they’d always be recovering from yesterday’s game then immediately into preparation for the next game which is likely to be the day after tomorrow. And we haven’t considered when do they get a day off

They have implemented such schedules in England and other leagues. That was driven by the TV money in these leagues admittedly. This would be applied to the top league only. I am not advocating it but saying if we were in Hearts position in March this is something that could be put before the league that was a bit more creative and not antagonistic that could have won the support of clubs. Hearts and Rangers adopted a confrontational approach of null and void and unworkable reconstructions.

[greenpaper55]

They have implemented such schedules in England and other leagues. That was driven by the TV money in these leagues admittedly. This would be applied to the top league only. I am not advocating it but saying if we were in Hearts position in March this is something that could be put before the league that was a bit more creative and not antagonistic that could have won the support of clubs. Hearts and Rangers adopted a confrontational approach of null and void and unworkable reconstructions.

I think when the league was called nobody knew when the season would restart, there might have been no games this side of Christmas the way things were looking then.

[CropleyWasGod]

They have implemented such schedules in England and other leagues. That was driven by the TV money in these leagues admittedly. This would be applied to the top league only. I am not advocating it but saying if we were in Hearts position in March this is something that could be put before the league that was a bit more creative and not antagonistic that could have won the support of clubs. Hearts and Rangers adopted a confrontational approach of null and void and unworkable reconstructions.

The SG hasn't given its consent to games yet, so any plan for imitating England would have been vetoed.

[Tynie01011973]

The SG hasn't given its consent to games yet, so any plan for imitating England would have been vetoed.

Exactly, it's not set in stone that the SG will allow 1 August restart even now

[Eyrie]

They have implemented such schedules in England and other leagues. That was driven by the TV money in these leagues admittedly. This would be applied to the top league only. I am not advocating it but saying if we were in Hearts position in March this is something that could be put before the league that was a bit more creative and not antagonistic that could have won the support of clubs. Hearts and Rangers adopted a confrontational approach of null and void and unworkable reconstructions.

It wasn't workable however due to players being out of contract on 31 May as Drewster pointed out above.

Ask Ryan Fraser about extending a contract for a month or two.

[007]

They have implemented such schedules in England and other leagues. That was driven by the TV money in these leagues admittedly. This would be applied to the top league only. I am not advocating it but saying if we were in Hearts position in March this is something that could be put before the league that was a bit more creative and not antagonistic that could have won the support of clubs. Hearts and Rangers adopted a confrontational approach of null and void and unworkable reconstructions.

EPL matches restarted on 17th June, we are 6 weeks behind them with our restart of 1st Aug. The UEFA deadline to complete the leagues is 31st July so it was impossible.

https://www.theolivepress.es/spain-news/2020/04/01/uefa-extends-deadline-for-leagues-to-complete-their-fixtures-until-july-31-while-suspending-champions-league-indefinitely/

UEFA wanted to be told by 25th May if we were going to complete the league or not and we didn't even get the tentative approval of 1st August from the Scottish government until after that date. The league was only formally called about a week before 25th May. I have lost count of how many Hearts and Rangers fans I've explained this to on Twitter.

[Tug Wilson]

What a strange thing to say at this stage of proceedings. Many reasons why it was not possible, all have been well documented.

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Yet still I am having to try and explain it to some bloke on Twitter.

[ScottB]

You only need to look at clubs like Charlton, where a number of first team players have refused the extension option, to see what sort of mess things could have become up here if we tried to restart the last season. Particularly when you see the number of players who were out of contract, some teams might have struggled to put together competitive squads, meaning an attempt to finish the season likely wouldn’t have been any ‘fairer’ than what actually happened.

[FilipinoHibs]

Yet still I am having to try and explain it to some bloke on Twitter.

It was a hypothetical answer to what we would have done If we were in Hearts position back in March. Nothing strange in it. Many people then including LD wanted
To play out the season as the best option. The options in March were in order of preference:

1 Play out the season
2 Call the league
3 Reconstruction
4 Null and void
5 Legal action

Hearts went 4,3,5. I am saying we would have went 1,2. And as I said at the start 1 would probably nit have been workable or gather enough support and accepted 2 That is not to say we would not have tried a creative solution to1.

Nowhere I am advocating 1 now.

[oldbutdim]

:greengrin

Cheers.

I’m glad my vindictiveness hadn’t gone completely unnoticed.

[Future17]

It was a hypothetical answer to what we would have done If we were in Hearts position back in March. Nothing strange in it. Many people then including LD wanted
To play out the season as the best option. The options in March were in order of preference:

1 Play out the season
2 Call the league
3 Reconstruction
4 Null and void
5 Legal action

Hearts went 4,3,5. I am saying we would have went 1,2. And as I said at the start 1 would probably nit have been workable or gather enough support and accepted 2 That is not to say we would not have tried a creative solution to1.

Nowhere I am advocating 1 now.

I think the problem is you said it was possible when it wasn't.

[Del Boy]

If Hearts win their case and prevent promotion and relegation then surely Rangers will pile on (with some justification) and insist that Celtic’s title cannot count either. You cannot say it’s fine for Celtic to Be declared champions and therefore qualify for the champions league yet say the other three champions get nothing- it is effectively null and void from championship down.

[Lago]

Exactly, it's not set in stone that the SG will allow 1 August restart even now
Time a start date was set in stone, competitive football being played in Spain, Germany & England yet Scottish clubs can't even arrange closed doors friendlies. Time the SG got it's finger out.

[ian cruise]

Time a start date was set in stone, competitive football being played in Spain, Germany & England yet Scottish clubs can't even arrange closed doors friendlies. Time the SG got it's finger out.

I suppose the counter to that is if we were playing games and scenario that happened with Aberdeen where a player tested positive, then it creates a lot of additional problems. The leagues who are playing games have a lot more money to spend on safety measures and a lot more money at risk if they weren't playing games so will put pressure on the powers that be to let them proceed.

[Numptie]

If, and its a big if, Hearts and PT win the first argument about the Dundee vote, the outcome isn't that they are re-instated. The outcome of a flawed company decision is for the SPFL to re-run the initial vote, or to put in place a different resolution to the vote. You can't take part of the decision (that those at the top of leagues are declared Champions) without having a completely new vote. Don't see this happening but this is an argument about voting procedure, not about the outcome of the procedure.

[JimBHibees]

Is there any indication when arbitration decision likely to be announced? This week, early next week?

[Brightside]

I'm not sure why people are saying IF they win their case and deny promotion...... thats just not going to happen. Are the SFA really going to put the SPFL in the situation of having to pause the season again whilst they re-do all the fixtures. This is just about giving Hearts enough money so we can all get on with football again. I expect it will a little more that the parachute payment....but only a little more.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm not sure why people are saying IF they win their case and deny promotion...... thats just not going to happen. Are the SFA really going to put the SPFL in the situation of having to pause the season again whilst they re-do all the fixtures. This is just about giving Hearts enough money so we can all get on with football again. I expect it will a little more that the parachute payment....but only a little more.

I expect Hearts to lose full stop and then to be told to be on their way. Why give them any money?


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[flash]

I expect Hearts to lose full stop and then to be told to be on their way. Why give them any money?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

To compensate for the fact that they may very well have stayed up. It's what should have happened for all the relegated clubs.

[Kaff]

I expect Hearts to lose full stop and then to be told to be on their way. Why give them any money?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I think arbitration could award relatively small figure of compensation. I fully expect and want the SFA to fine both clubs at least any figure the other clubs and SPFL are out of pocket due to legal expenses.

I said earlier how ridiculous it is that there could be £500k going out of the game at this time and ending up in the legal system for absolutely no material gain for any club.
They have to be heavily penalised.

I have no problem with Hearts spending money on Neilson and Gordon, that's football and Dundee United have gained financially from it. Its the way money moves around the game, Gordon less so of course but its the modern game with free agents and bigger wages

[CB_NO3]

To compensate for the fact that they may very well have stayed up. It's what should have happened for all the relegated clubs.

In the opinion of who? Not the founding members who decided.

[jacomo]

Yet still I am having to try and explain it to some bloke on Twitter.


If that bloke is Tom English, good luck. He is f****** clueless.

[G B Young]

I expect Hearts to lose full stop and then to be told to be on their way. Why give them any money?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Exactly. You'd think from the way Hearts are presenting this that compensation is some sort of pre-agreed alternative to re-instatement in the top flight. There's no either/or here, just a random multi million pound figure Hearts have thrown in to the mix. Nobody is actually owe them anything.

[Brightside]

I expect Hearts to lose full stop and then to be told to be on their way. Why give them any money?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They would get money anyway as part of going down. I’m not expecting much more than that.

[Rumble de Thump]

To compensate for the fact that they may very well have stayed up. It's what should have happened for all the relegated clubs.

The rules don't state anything about giving relegated teams extra money. Teams don't get compensated for being so bad that they finish bottom of leagues when a season ends. They simply get relegated. This has always been about Hearts wanting an undeserved advantage at everyone else's expense. The only thing they deserve is relegation and whatever punishment the governing body deems appropriate.

[KingPat4]

They would get money anyway as part of going down. I’m not expecting much more than that.


So, we should also get a wad of cash for being demoted to 7th place and losing out on ££££'s
:confused:

[flash]

In the opinion of who? Not the founding members who decided.

In my opinion. That's why I said it.

[flash]

The rules don't state anything about giving relegated teams extra money. Teams don't get compensated for being so bad that they finish bottom of leagues when a season ends. They simply get relegated. This has always been about Hearts wanting an undeserved advantage at everyone else's expense. The only thing they deserve is relegation and whatever punishment the governing body deems appropriate.

The rules didn't state anything. That's why we are in this mess.

[Danderhall Hibs]

In my opinion. That's why I said it.

:hilarious

Please always add IMO to your posts - just for clarity.

It would help clear up unnecessary confusion (IMO).

[flash]

They would get money anyway as part of going down. I’m not expecting much more than that.

Me neither but some compensation for the unique circumstances wouldn't be unreasonable. If it was St Mirren most people on here would accept that I reckon.

[Onion]

If Hearts win their case and prevent promotion and relegation then surely Rangers will pile on (with some justification) and insist that Celtic’s title cannot count either. You cannot say it’s fine for Celtic to Be declared champions and therefore qualify for the champions league yet say the other three champions get nothing- it is effectively null and void from championship down.

Very reasonable argument. I agreed if DUFC are prevented from enjoying the fruits of their title win (ie promotion), then the season should be declared null and void. Celtic should be stripped of their title and lose their place in the CL. The Rangers, Aberdeen should be prohibited from playing in Europe. Hibs should be reinstated to top 6 place - with the approx payout.

Let's see how Tom English and the BBC deal the fall out of that :greengrin

[flash]

:hilarious

Please always add IMO to your posts - just for clarity.

It would help clear up unnecessary confusion (IMO).

:not worth

[Lago]

Take all the emotion out of the situation, difficult I know, but it's hard not to say the whole exercise from the word go has been an almighty shambles.

[Springbank]

Time a start date was set in stone, competitive football being played in Spain, Germany & England yet Scottish clubs can't even arrange closed doors friendlies. Time the SG got it's finger out.

Football is not being played in English league 1 or 2 though. Parts of Spain have reintroduced lockdown as the Corona virus re-emerged. And Scotland has gotten on top of the virus (in a way that The Neighbour hasnt)

I'd say most people in Europe would consider that Scotland has got it by & large right. If anyone needs to get a "finger out" then his name is probably Johnson, Trump or Bolsonaro

[CB_NO3]

In my opinion. That's why I said it.

If you compensate a team for coming last in an unfinished league then every club in the country could seek to be compensated as they could have potentially moved up a place, therefore opening up a can of worms and would end up with more court cases than football games.

Rangers could seek compensation claiming they might have won the league, Aberdeen could seek compensation claiming they could have came 3rd.

There was a vote to call it as is for a reason.

[Keith_M]

Take all the emotion out of the situation, difficult I know, but it's hard not to say the whole exercise from the word go has been an almighty shambles.


This is genuinely not a dig at you but...

how do you think it should have been handled?

Do you disagree with the SPFL having a vote to end the season or just how they administered it?


:dunno:

[Greenworld]

Is there any indication when arbitration decision likely to be announced? This week, early next week?Nothing mentioned and it looks like very little will be said . I would think late next week might be possible

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[CB_NO3]

Take all the emotion out of the situation, difficult I know, but it's hard not to say the whole exercise from the word go has been an almighty shambles.

Other than the Dundee vote I think its been handled pretty well tbh. Unless of course you read a weedgy rag newspaper.

[flash]

If you compensate a team for coming last in an unfinished league then every club in the country could seek to be compensated as they could have potentially moved up a place, therefore opening up a can of worms and would end up with more court cases than football games.

Rangers could seek compensation claiming they might have won the league, Aberdeen could seek compensation claiming they could have came 3rd.

There was a vote to call it as is for a reason.

They are going down in a season where the Championship will be shortened. These are unique circumstances and need unique solutions.

[Rumble de Thump]

The rules didn't state anything. That's why we are in this mess.

The rules clearly state that teams at the bottom of the league when a season comes to an end get relegated. The rules also state that the SPFL can declare the season finished before the full set of fixtures have been played if need be. That's why teams have been relegated. We're in this mess because Hearts don't want to abide by the rules.

[mal]

Take all the emotion out of the situation, difficult I know, but it's hard not to say the whole exercise from the word go has been an almighty shambles.

The only shambles has been the behaviour of Hearts. But that's nothing new.

[Greenworld]

They are going down in a season where the Championship will be shortened. These are unique circumstances and need unique solutions.Flash its more of a hard luck story. There is never a good time to go down but with multi- millionaire backers and 400k fan base they will be fine.

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[Waxy]

Take all the emotion out of the situation, difficult I know, but it's hard not to say the whole exercise from the word go has been an almighty shambles.

The decisions were fine. The complainers turned it all into a shambles instead of accepting the outcome.

[flash]

Flash its more of a hard luck story. There is never a good time to go down but with multi- millionaire backers and 400k fan base they will be fine.

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I know they will. I am trying to take the fact it's Hertz out the equation and look at this dispassionately.

[Skol]

The decisions were fine. The complainers turned it all into a shambles instead of accepting the outcome.

I agree, the decisions ultimately were correct, however the SPFL were a bit clumsy in the way they got to those decisions and havent covered themselves in glory.

Despite what we all may feel, there is an element of Hearts being treated harshly. There was a chance (slim albeit) that they could have avoided relegation or been in the playoff. This I think should have been recognised by the SPFL.

The outcome should be that the current decision stands and I think there should be a compensation payment. However arguably the costs for the promoted clubs should be paid for bout of the compensation payment

[MrSmith]

Football is not being played in English league 1 or 2 though. Parts of Spain have reintroduced lockdown as the Corona virus re-emerged. And Scotland has gotten on top of the virus (in a way that The Neighbour hasnt)

I'd say most people in Europe would consider that Scotland has got it by & large right. If anyone needs to get a "finger out" then his name is probably Johnson, Trump or Bolsonaro

100% this.

we are on the cusp of being rid of COVID through strict controls and for me in imo, I’d rather be here than in our southern neighbours yard.

[Wakeyhibee]

They are going down in a season where the Championship will be shortened. These are unique circumstances and need unique solutions.

However if no fans are allowed back in till then, they are not paying for testing, appearance and other bonuses, and will still receive furlough money up to the start of the season. How much actual revenue is lost due to this is debatable and nowhere near their fantasy figure.

Had reconstruction or their case been successful I'm not sure the difference would be dramatic.

In principle I would agree for all three as a nod to the fact of early finish but also as there are no parachute payments for Partick and Stranraer.

[Keith_M]

They are going down in a season where the Championship will be shortened. These are unique circumstances and need unique solutions.


That applies to thirty clubs, though, not just Hearts and Thistle.

I'd imagine most people would have preferred to see the season played to a finish, even if (as unlikely as it sounds) it meant Hearts had stayed up.

To preserve the very existence of the clubs, though, the SPFL decided to have a vote to finish the season, and the vote was then democratically passed. They admitted they could have done certain things better, but no rules were broken in that vote.

The SPFL then practically bent over backwards to offer Hearts the opportunity to come up with an alternative solution that suited all clubs and Hearts totally failed to do so, preferring to spend their time lashing out at other clubs and bullying their own players into taking a pay cut.

It's very unfortunate circumstances but this is also an incredibly unusual situation, where people are losing their jobs... and thousands have even lost their lives.

I actually had sympathy for them for a long time, with the viewpoint that they could have been given a much larger parachute payment than normal, but their behaviour has been deplorable and now I honestly wouldn't care one jot if they either went bust or languished in the lower leagues for years.

[Waxy]

I agree, the decisions ultimately were correct, however the SPFL were a bit clumsy in the way they got to those decisions and havent covered themselves in glory.

Despite what we all may feel, there is an element of Hearts being treated harshly. There was a chance (slim albeit) that they could have avoided relegation or been in the playoff. This I think should have been recognised by the SPFL.

The outcome should be that the current decision stands and I think there should be a compensation payment. However arguably the costs for the promoted clubs should be paid for bout of the compensation payment
Dont know what everyone thinks but perhaps the relegated clubs should have got a percentage of the promoted clubs winnings. In the same way it might be fair to give hearts a bit compo, perhaps it should have come from Dundee utds winnings? Just a thought as its the same coin type of thing?

[Peevemor]

Dont know what everyone thinks but perhaps the relegated clubs should have got a percentage of the promoted clubs winnings. In the same way it might be fair to give hearts a bit compo, perhaps it should have come from Dundee utds winnings? Just a thought as its the same coin type of thing?

No.

[JimBHibees]

Take all the emotion out of the situation, difficult I know, but it's hard not to say the whole exercise from the word go has been an almighty shambles.

Honestly think it was a very difficult situation handled in the main as well as could possibly be. There was simply not a no harm outcome and imo all the main decisions were correct despite an onslaught in some sections of the media to preserving Hearts top flight position.

[grunt]

In the same way it might be fair to give hearts a bit compo, perhaps it should have come from Dundee utds winnings?
Why is it fair to give Hearts compensation but not give us compensation for moving from 6th to 7th? Answer - Hearts aren't due any compensation; they've been relegated because they were bottom at the end of the season.

[mal]

Despite what we all may feel, there is an element of Hearts being treated harshly. There was a chance (slim albeit) that they could have avoided relegation or been in the playoff. This I think should have been recognised by the SPFL.

How have Hearts managed to gaslight people into believing that they have been treated harshly? They're not the only team that could have improved their league position. If they and Partick are the only teams that receive compensation for what they could have achieved then they've been given preferential treatment and their special pleading has been successful.

[Lago]

Football is not being played in English league 1 or 2 though. Parts of Spain have reintroduced lockdown as the Corona virus re-emerged. And Scotland has gotten on top of the virus (in a way that The Neighbour hasnt)

I'd say most people in Europe would consider that Scotland has got it by & large right. If anyone needs to get a "finger out" then his name is probably Johnson, Trump or Bolsonaro
From the 15th July I can visit a cinema & sit indoors with other people, I could also visit a museum, indoors with other people, but as yet Scottish football still can't get a firm date to start playing, out doors & with no supporters in the ground. Work that one out if you can. 🙄

[Future17]

Take all the emotion out of the situation, difficult I know, but it's hard not to say the whole exercise from the word go has been an almighty shambles.

It's not hard to say, but it wouldn't be right IMO. The SPFL hasn't been perfect but, as a membership organisation with some divergent interests, I think it's done pretty well.

It certainly hasn't been "an almighty shambles" with regard to the SPFL's actions.

[Future17]

From the 15th July I can visit a cinema & sit indoors with other people, I could also visit a museum, indoors with other people, but as yet Scottish football still can't get a firm date to start playing, out doors & with no supporters in the ground. Work that one out if you can. 🙄

In a cinema, any sweaty actors in close proximity to one another were filmed months prior. That's not the case with football.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Time a start date was set in stone, competitive football being played in Spain, Germany & England yet Scottish clubs can't even arrange closed doors friendlies. Time the SG got it's finger out.

Yeah football wasn't responsible for the spread if COVID and no one in Liverpool caught it because of an insignificant wee kick about with some obscure Spanish side.

It is not a case of pandering to impatent selfish football fans but taking the right decisions at the right time. I hope the SG finger is only pulled out when the time is right and not because some couldn't give a monkey's for the consequences because of their sense of entitlement.

[Not So Young]

Take all the emotion out of the situation, difficult I know, but it's hard not to say the whole exercise from the word go has been an almighty shambles.

Totally agree

The vote to end the league should have been seperate from distributing the money

That would remove the argument from across the road that clubs only voted to end the league because they wanted\needed the money

[007]

Totally agree

The vote to end the league should have been seperate from distributing the money

Why? How would it have worked?

[Sammy7nil]

In a cinema, any sweaty actors in close proximity to one another were filmed months prior. That's not the case with football.

Allegedly sweat is fine for example in cricket you can "shine" the ball using sweat but not spit. So BCD football should be possible .

[gbhibby]

As a poster I think Kiwidoug on jkb said beat St Mirren and Hearts will be OK as St Mirren would have been bottom at the time of lockdown. Would Hearts been rallying to the cause to help St Mirren I think not due to bad blood between them. Hearts are protecting their own self interests. What they have to bear in mind is that they are members of all associations in Scottish football and have to abide by any votes taken by the members whether they are right or wrong. If they don't like it they can resign.

[Peevemor]

Totally agree

The vote to end the league should have been seperate from distributing the money

That would remove the argument from across the road that clubs only voted to end the league because they wanted\needed the money

Don't be daft. The vote to end the league was taken quickly for no other reason than to release the money and there was no reason to pretend otherwise.

With matches stopped, all gate receipts did too and clubs were about to go to the wall.

[greenpaper55]

From the 15th July I can visit a cinema & sit indoors with other people, I could also visit a museum, indoors with other people, but as yet Scottish football still can't get a firm date to start playing, out doors & with no supporters in the ground. Work that one out if you can. 🙄

It does not please her majesty ! Something else she will grant and make us feel good.

[matty_f]

Don't be daft. The vote to end the league was taken quickly for no other reason than to release the money and there was no reason to pretend otherwise.

With matches stopped, all gate receipts did too and clubs were about to go to the wall.

You’re right to point out that the league needed to end to pay out the final instalments of the prize money, and that issue aside, even if they’d delayed the decision until today, the same outcome would have been arrived at, only teams would have had less time to prepare for whichever league they ended up in.

[TrinityHibs]

In a cinema, any sweaty actors in close proximity to one another were filmed months prior. That's not the case with football.

How many cases of Covid have been reported as a result of the EPL playing football?

[Del Boy]

Couple Dundee United fans doing a sponsored walk from Tannadice to Tynecastle to raise money for the legal costs. Ridiculous that they’re having to do this, but fair play to them.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/tannadice-to-tynecastle-walk?utm_source=customer&utm_medium=copy_link-tip&utm_campaign=p_cp_guide_do

[KeithTheHibby]

It's not hard to say, but it wouldn't be right IMO. The SPFL hasn't been perfect but, as a membership organisation with some divergent interests, I think it's done pretty well.

It certainly hasn't been "an almighty shambles" with regard to the SPFL's actions.

The SPFL have brought this upon themselves. The scandalous decision to announce the result of the vote before all votes had been cast was pathetic - especially given the fact that said team held the casting vote. If they has said nothing until the Dundee vote was sorted out then no-one could have pointed the finger at them.

No wonder there is so much distrust within our game.

To give them some credit they have handled themselves since this however they started off with an almighty **** up that it has proved impossible to recover from.

[hibbyfraelibby]

How many cases of Covid have been reported as a result of the EPL playing football?

Playing behind closed doors with strict bio-security measures and playing in front of braying fans are two entirely different things.

If your sense of taste means you can't differentiate the difference between apples and pears you need to book a test.��

[WhileTheChief..]

The rules clearly state that teams at the bottom of the league when a season comes to an end get relegated. The rules also state that the SPFL can declare the season finished before the full set of fixtured have been played if need be. That's why teams have been relegated. We're in this mess because Hearts don't want to abide by the rules.

Not sure why more hasn’t been made of this.

It’s never been mentioned in the chat on Sportsound or in the papers.

I’d have thought that one sentence alone is enough to sort everything out yet Budge is allowed to keep banging on that the season isn’t over until 38 games have been played.

She’s wrong and someone needs to point that out to her.

[Joe6-2]

In a cinema, any sweaty actors in close proximity to one another were filmed months prior. That's not the case with football.

What sort of movies are you watching? 😁

[Ozyhibby]

I agree, the decisions ultimately were correct, however the SPFL were a bit clumsy in the way they got to those decisions and havent covered themselves in glory.

Despite what we all may feel, there is an element of Hearts being treated harshly. There was a chance (slim albeit) that they could have avoided relegation or been in the playoff. This I think should have been recognised by the SPFL.

The outcome should be that the current decision stands and I think there should be a compensation payment. However arguably the costs for the promoted clubs should be paid for bout of the compensation payment

Arbitration will only award Hearts something if the spfl is found to have not followed the rules. They won’t rule on any ideas of unfairness. If they find the rules have been followed then Hearts will get nothing.


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[Peevemor]

Not sure why more hasn’t been made of this.

It’s never been mentioned in the chat on Sportsound or in the papers.

I’d have thought that one sentence alone is enough to sort everything out yet Budge is allowed to keep banging on that the season isn’t over until 38 games have been played.

She’s wrong and someone needs to point that out to her.

Also that the SPFL board didn't need to put calling the league to a vote. They could have done it themselves but decided to put it to the clubs for the sake of transparency.

[gbhibby]

Couple Dundee United fans doing a sponsored walk from Tannadice to Tynecastle to raise money for the legal costs. Ridiculous that they’re having to do this, but fair play to them.

https://www.gofundme.com/f/tannadice-to-tynecastle-walk?utm_source=customer&utm_medium=copy_link-tip&utm_campaign=p_cp_guide_do

We should organise an open top bus for them to go along Gorgie Road.

[Lago]

In a cinema, any sweaty actors in close proximity to one another were filmed months prior. That's not the case with football.
And the sweaty occupant of the seat 6 feet from me??

[Lago]

Yeah football wasn't responsible for the spread if COVID and no one in Liverpool caught it because of an insignificant wee kick about with some obscure Spanish side.

It is not a case of pandering to impatent selfish football fans but taking the right decisions at the right time. I hope the SG finger is only pulled out when the time is right and not because some couldn't give a monkey's for the consequences because of their sense of entitlement.
Where did I say there would be fans involved? Read the post properly please before responding. Closed doors, fan free!

[Keith_M]

Just out of interest, what are the rules on social distancing while attending the cinema, as of next Wednesday?


I haven't really been keeping up with all the details.

[flash]

We should organise an open top bus for them to go along Gorgie Road.

Would be pretty funny if we all paid their legal fees then they nipped in and got Nisbet ahead of us.

[Radium]

Not sure why more hasn’t been made of this.

It’s never been mentioned in the chat on Sportsound or in the papers.

I’d have thought that one sentence alone is enough to sort everything out yet Budge is allowed to keep banging on that the season isn’t over until 38 games have been played.

She’s wrong and someone needs to point that out to her.

One of the real issues is viewing this through the prism of Sportsound. They seem to have taken an editorial decision early on to back the positions of clubs who wanted the season to be null and void. From private WhatsApp messages to repeated interviews with Budge. Les Grey did try to go on an early program as well as others but the narrative has not shifted.

It seems clear in recent weeks that nobody with a contrary view is interested in being on the show, probably because of the continual denial of even basic facts. the vote being a measure of support for a motion rather than a yes/no matter is repeatedly ignored for example.

Worth remembering that Chic Young is a current voice of reason on the show.


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[Phil MaGlass]

We should organise an open top bus for them to go along Gorgie Road.

That wid be cheatin, it´s a sponsored walk:greengrin

[Billy Whizz]

Just out of interest, what are the rules on social distancing while attending the cinema, as of next Wednesday?


I haven't really been keeping up with all the details.

No idea Bobby, wrong thread I think

[Tug Wilson]

It's not hard to say, but it wouldn't be right IMO. The SPFL hasn't been perfect but, as a membership organisation with some divergent interests, I think it's done pretty well.

It certainly hasn't been "an almighty shambles" with regard to the SPFL's actions.

This

[Andy74]

Also that the SPFL board didn't need put calling the league to a vote. They could have done it themselves but decided to put it to the clubs for the sake of transparency.

It isn’t a big issue in their disjointed argument though.

They are accepting league ended and league positions.

They are accepting the champions. They just don’t like the bit about relegation and by extension promotion.

[TrinityHibs]

Pkaying behind closed doors with strict bii-security neasures and playing in front of bray fans are two entirely different things.

If your srnse of taste means you can't diffentiate the difference between apples and oears you need to book a test.😉

You should try reading the post I was responding to before diving into the fruit bowl. There was no reference to braying fans just sweaty footballers.

[Onion]

Also that the SPFL board didn't need to put calling the league to a vote. They could have done it themselves but decided to put it to the clubs for the sake of transparency.

And they delayed the Prem decision, so Mrs Budge had the chance to demonstrate her tremendous multi-tasking influencing skills by driving through reconstruction to save the free-world.

[oldbutdim]

Pkaying behind closed doors with strict bii-security neasures and playing in front of bray fans are two entirely different things.

If your srnse of taste means you can't diffentiate the difference between apples and oears you need to book a test.😉

Apples and oranges.

Apples and pears = stairs.

:tsk tsk:

[eezyrider]

Apologies if it's already been posted, but what happened regarding the costs of last weeks legal case? Did each side pay their own costs?

EZ

[Billy Whizz]

https://www.thecourier.co.uk/fp/sport/football/dundee-united/1430492/dundee-united-hearts-tannadice-tynecastle-fans-walk/

Hope their greeted warmly at Tynie

[Winston Ingram]

23734

Leslie Deans mouthpiece has posted an other update.

In summary, his mouthpiece won’t be posting anymore insight as Mr Deans is in the huff and
Hibsarepants offers incisive and insightful comments of complex issues��

[CapitalGreen]

23734

Leslie Deans mouthpiece has posted an other update.

In summary, his mouthpiece won’t be posting anymore insight as Mr Deans is in the huff and
Hibsarepants offers incisive and insightful comments of complex issues��

Maybe just me but that attachment is impossible to read.

[jeffers]

Maybe just me but that attachment is impossible to read.

You are not missing much, but here you go:

"Leslie Deans has asked me to post his final comments on jkb due to the backlash and sustained criticism posted by fellow members when the information, received and posted in good faith, has turned out to be incorrect. This basically comes down to the underhand tactics adopted by chairman when saying they’ll act one way but in fact act the complete opposite. There is no legislation that covers this. We all have the clubs best interests at heart, yet some of the abuse levelled at certain posters has left a bad taste in the mouth when all one is trying to do is keep members informed of proceedings. As follows:-


I have reluctantly decided to refrain from making further detailed comment on Kickback about the ongoing litigation/arbitration. Certain posters clearly object to your posting my remarks and I regard their personal abuse as offensive. Whilst I understand their frustration that the anticipated reconstruction never got off the ground ,the information provided to me was passed on in good faith. I was not the only one taken aback by the news that only 16 out of 42 clubs supported this.
Like others of my generation, my mastery of technology is not the best so thank you for lodging my comments. I should also congratulate certain posters-- David McCaig, Footbalfirst, Ethan Hunt, Hibsarepants come to mind amongst others, -- who continue to offer incisive and insightful comment on complex issues
I stated publicly on BBC radio that I believed we had a good case. David Thomson QC explained clearly in his opinion on Patrick Thistle 's website that the motion of April 10 had failed. He was clear in his view of the Dundee vote.
Additionally the SPFL executive induced its members to vote in a certain way by virtue of its misrepresentation and withholding of relevant information in its advice paper of April 8.
What follows is whether Hearts and PT suffered unfair prejudice as defined in the Companies Act. I believe they did. To change the rules from a 38 to a 30 game season part way through is inherently unfair if it leads to relegation , as admitted by at least one SPFL director.
The prejudice is the major loss of income suffered by being in a lower and shortened league.
With unfair prejudice established I anticipate the tribunal should find in favour of Hearts and PT.
The tribunal should comprise 3 experienced independent lawyers and I have no qualms or concerns that we will get a fair hearing. Any manifest legal errors will mean it's referred back to Lord Clark.
Others have said, rightly in my opinion, that there will be bad blood between clubs going forward. I hope in the fullness of time others might recognise that we fought for what is right and if changes are then made as a result , there could be a major benefit to football as a whole."

[CentreLine]

Maybe just me but that attachment is impossible to read.

Nope, me too.

[Peevemor]

23734

Leslie Deans mouthpiece has posted an other update.

In summary, his mouthpiece won’t be posting anymore insight as Mr Deans is in the huff and
Hibsarepants offers incisive and insightful comments of complex issues��What a clown. Just like his team, it's always everyone else's fault.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200708/ba399eeb79cce04a361c48b5250a7e90.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200708/e67045935e3f8659077a3e4f735f42aa.jpg

[HFC93]

You are not missing much, but here you go:

"Leslie Deans has asked me to post his final comments on jkb due to the backlash and sustained criticism posted by fellow members when the information, received and posted in good faith, has turned out to be incorrect. This basically comes down to the underhand tactics adopted by chairman when saying they’ll act one way but in fact act the complete opposite. There is no legislation that covers this. We all have the clubs best interests at heart, yet some of the abuse levelled at certain posters has left a bad taste in the mouth when all one is trying to do is keep members informed of proceedings. As follows:-


I have reluctantly decided to refrain from making further detailed comment on Kickback about the ongoing litigation/arbitration. Certain posters clearly object to your posting my remarks and I regard their personal abuse as offensive. Whilst I understand their frustration that the anticipated reconstruction never got off the ground ,the information provided to me was passed on in good faith. I was not the only one taken aback by the news that only 16 out of 42 clubs supported this.
Like others of my generation, my mastery of technology is not the best so thank you for lodging my comments. I should also congratulate certain posters-- David McCaig, Footbalfirst, Ethan Hunt, Hibsarepants come to mind amongst others, -- who continue to offer incisive and insightful comment on complex issues
I stated publicly on BBC radio that I believed we had a good case. David Thomson QC explained clearly in his opinion on Patrick Thistle 's website that the motion of April 10 had failed. He was clear in his view of the Dundee vote.
Additionally the SPFL executive induced its members to vote in a certain way by virtue of its misrepresentation and withholding of relevant information in its advice paper of April 8.
What follows is whether Hearts and PT suffered unfair prejudice as defined in the Companies Act. I believe they did. To change the rules from a 38 to a 30 game season part way through is inherently unfair if it leads to relegation , as admitted by at least one SPFL director.
The prejudice is the major loss of income suffered by being in a lower and shortened league.
With unfair prejudice established I anticipate the tribunal should find in favour of Hearts and PT.
The tribunal should comprise 3 experienced independent lawyers and I have no qualms or concerns that we will get a fair hearing. Any manifest legal errors will mean it's referred back to Lord Clark.
Others have said, rightly in my opinion, that there will be bad blood between clubs going forward. I hope in the fullness of time others might recognise that we fought for what is right and if changes are then made as a result , there could be a major benefit to football as a whole."

In summary, I've called it wrong on everything so far but this is how the arbitration tribunal will play out.

[tamig]

Very reasonable argument. I agreed if DUFC are prevented from enjoying the fruits of their title win (ie promotion), then the season should be declared null and void. Celtic should be stripped of their title and lose their place in the CL. The Rangers, Aberdeen should be prohibited from playing in Europe. Hibs should be reinstated to top 6 place - with the approx payout.

Let's see how Tom English and the BBC deal the fall out of that :greengrin

Just catching up on this but that really would open up a huge can of worms. Null and voiding is not an option. Why should we get top 6 prize money if the season was null and voided? Would there be any prize money full stop in such a situation?

[Bostonhibby]

What a clown. Just like his team, it's always everyone else's fault.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200708/ba399eeb79cce04a361c48b5250a7e90.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200708/e67045935e3f8659077a3e4f735f42aa.jpgTotally cringeworthy. Set up as an all seeing guru and got absolutely zilch right, a quick apology and a dignified departure would have been the rational way out.

And then there's the bigmouthed Jambo way..........

There'll be another one along in a minute.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Irish_Steve]

What a clown. Just like his team, it's always everyone else's fault.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200708/ba399eeb79cce04a361c48b5250a7e90.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200708/e67045935e3f8659077a3e4f735f42aa.jpg

Aww balls, was trying to wean myself from Brokeback but will now have to look at the follow up comments lol