Jambos Legal Challenge

[CockneyRebel]

I said a couple of weeks ago that I didn't understand the blind panic and desperation pouring out of them. No team wants relegation but it's not the end of the world (though it's staring to look like it may be for them).


Said the exact same myself pal - why all the desperation? it's relegation not annihilation. It ain't nice but it ain't forever. It ain't even fair but as someone said it's the fairest of the unfair options.

[Since452]

The 8 million claim makes you wonder just how desperate they are

[EH54]

Iv been talking to a few Jambos who all think they have a great case and think they are onto millions in comp..Must admit it's rather fun just mentioning relegation to hear them bite every time with we've been expelled not relegated 🤭

[Coco Bryce]

The 8 million claim makes you wonder just how desperate they are

They are totally skint. What professional football club would post their bank account details online for fans to put money into.

Reeks of desperation :agree:

[660]

They are in full “no one likes us we don’t care” hun mode on oneleagueback

[Irish_Steve]

Apparently Brokeback have a obtained a copy of their petition from their big cousins at FF

I have downloaded it but done know the legalities of uploading it here!

[Coco Bryce]

Apparently Brokeback have a obtained a copy of their petition from their big cousins at FF

I have downloaded it but done know the legalities of uploading it here!

Managed to download it just in time :greengrin

[Irish_Steve]

Have they taken it down?

[Coco Bryce]

Have they taken it down?

No you posted it. Now it's gone :cb

[-Jonesy-]

Managed to download it just in time :greengrin

Isn’t it public record anyway?

[Billy Whizz]

No you posted it. Now it's gone :cb

It’s still there

[mutley]

Managed to download it just in time :greengrin

Without up loading for legal reasons, can you give us the jist of it?



Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro

[Irish_Steve]

Aye, I kinda stuffed up there lol

I was going to post it, then thought it mightn`t be exactly legal to but then forgot to remove the attachment from my reply!

[Billy Whizz]

https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/188814-spfl-declare-league-due-to-covid-partick-join-legal-action-cos-petition-lodged/page/1205/

Halfway down, posted by David McCaig

[Coco Bryce]

It’s still there

No. the post Irish Steve put up above with the file attached has been removed from this page.

I have no idea if it's still on kickback? Never been on there in my life as my antivirus might go into meltdown.

[Peevemor]

Always thought Budge would back off legal action. Astounded she pursued it. This could well be her last in a very long line of mistakes. Hearts have hit the self-destruct button big time.In one interview a few weeks ago she even said that they would have to accept whatever decision was made.

[Juice-Terry]

It's all a good laugh, isn't it? :na na:

[Andy74]

Those idiots appear to think they are going to get something out of this 😂

[bingo70]

Copied from JKB to save people the bother.....

Essentially three grounds .....

1. Materially inaccurate representation provided by the Directors to clubs as the basis for the Good Friday vote.

"The Directors’ failure to so explain matters to Members constituted a breach of their duty to provide sufficient information to allow Members to make properly informed decisions when voting on the Written Resolution"

2. Under the rules, the original Dundee vote should have stood.

"In any event, in terms of article 185 of the Articles, it was deemed to have been delivered when it was sent. The Dundee Rejection Vote was executed and had effect when it was sent at 4.48pm on 10 April 2020."

3. "That the affairs of the Company have been and are being conducted in the circumstances set out above in a manner that is unfairly prejudicial to the interests of Members, including the petitioners."

That’s not worth £8m is it?

[Springbank]

https://www.hmfckickback.co.uk/index.php?/topic/188814-spfl-declare-league-due-to-covid-partick-join-legal-action-cos-petition-lodged/page/1205/

Halfway down, posted by David McCaig

Mccaig's Folly (Oban joke)

[bingo70]

The whole crux of their complaint seems to be about that first vote.

Has there not already been a Deloitte investigation into that? Excuse my ignorance but if so and they are suggesting it’s wrong will they not need to get another full investigation done?

[Andy74]

Copied from JKB to save people the bother.....

Essentially three grounds .....

1. Materially inaccurate representation provided by the Directors to clubs as the basis for the Good Friday vote.

"The Directors’ failure to so explain matters to Members constituted a breach of their duty to provide sufficient information to allow Members to make properly informed decisions when voting on the Written Resolution"

2. Under the rules, the original Dundee vote should have stood.

"In any event, in terms of article 185 of the Articles, it was deemed to have been delivered when it was sent. The Dundee Rejection Vote was executed and had effect when it was sent at 4.48pm on 10 April 2020."

3. "That the affairs of the Company have been and are being conducted in the circumstances set out above in a manner that is unfairly prejudicial to the interests of Members, including the petitioners."

That’s not worth £8m is it?

So basically they don’t have a case.

[Aldo]

Copied from JKB to save people the bother.....

Essentially three grounds .....

1. Materially inaccurate representation provided by the Directors to clubs as the basis for the Good Friday vote.

"The Directors’ failure to so explain matters to Members constituted a breach of their duty to provide sufficient information to allow Members to make properly informed decisions when voting on the Written Resolution"

2. Under the rules, the original Dundee vote should have stood.

"In any event, in terms of article 185 of the Articles, it was deemed to have been delivered when it was sent. The Dundee Rejection Vote was executed and had effect when it was sent at 4.48pm on 10 April 2020."

3. "That the affairs of the Company have been and are being conducted in the circumstances set out above in a manner that is unfairly prejudicial to the interests of Members, including the petitioners."

That’s not worth £8m is it?

I have just laughed out loud!

Just sent this to my Hearts chum and he said I made this up totally as I was jealous of all the money they are going to win!


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Andy74]

Copied from JKB to save people the bother.....

Essentially three grounds .....

1. Materially inaccurate representation provided by the Directors to clubs as the basis for the Good Friday vote.

"The Directors’ failure to so explain matters to Members constituted a breach of their duty to provide sufficient information to allow Members to make properly informed decisions when voting on the Written Resolution"

2. Under the rules, the original Dundee vote should have stood.

"In any event, in terms of article 185 of the Articles, it was deemed to have been delivered when it was sent. The Dundee Rejection Vote was executed and had effect when it was sent at 4.48pm on 10 April 2020."

3. "That the affairs of the Company have been and are being conducted in the circumstances set out above in a manner that is unfairly prejudicial to the interests of Members, including the petitioners."

That’s not worth £8m is it?

Dearly me. They are quoting article 185 which is about notices sent by the SPFL. Noting to do with responses to written resolutions by members!

[Del Boy]

In terms of taking to court to overturn promotion/relegation is it likely that this can be done before August 1st? I have no idea how these things work but would think it must be unlikely

If it did go to court and Hearts somehow won and were reinstated but it still took a few weeks would Hearts then demand the season is delayed as their players will not have done a pre season. Unless they are a Premier league team they are not allowed to train at the moment.

[Joe Baker2]

when you stand back and look at it. Ann Budge has been one looooong train crash. How utterly embarrassing for a football club to behave like this. The one thing that stands out for me that no one seems to be talking about is the complete lack of sportsmanship on their part. Staggering. I really hope the SFA punish them.

[ballengeich]

The whole crux of their complaint seems to be about that first vote.

Has there not already been a Deloitte investigation into that? Excuse my ignorance but if so and they are suggesting it’s wrong will they not need to get another full investigation done?

I don't think so. If there was some technical irregularity in the vote then surely you can simply carry out the vote again with better observance of procedures.

[Springbank]

In terms of taking to court to overturn promotion/relegation is it likely that this can be done before August 1st? I have no idea how these things work but would think it must be unlikely

If it did go to court and Hearts somehow won and were reinstated but it still took a few weeks would Hearts then demand the season is delayed as their players will not have done a pre season. Unless they are a Premier league team they are not allowed to train at the moment.

The fact hearts couched their statement in terms of "no injunction, see how it goes, but compo if unsuccessful" said it all, imo.

They expect nothing at court, and want out of court settlement offer to save face & move on

[Barney McGrew]

So let’s say they do win their petition - surely all that would be instructed would be to re-run the vote?

And I wouldn’t fancy their chances of getting the result overturned given how they’ve been acting........

[bingo70]

when you stand back and look at it. Ann Budge has been one looooong train crash. How utterly embarrassing for a football club to behave like this. The one thing that stands out for me that no one seems to be talking about is the complete lack of sportsmanship on their part. Staggering. I really hope the SFA punish them.

I’ve had so many arguments with Jambos that say “you’d be the same if it was Hibs”

I can tell you for absolute certainty I wouldn’t. I know some would but personally I know u wouldn’t.

It’s unfortunate for them but if they took a step back for a second and stoped looking at it so hysterically they’d see there was no other option.

They should have beaten Hamilton or St Mirren.

[007]

Copied from JKB to save people the bother.....

Essentially three grounds .....

1. Materially inaccurate representation provided by the Directors to clubs as the basis for the Good Friday vote.

"The Directors’ failure to so explain matters to Members constituted a breach of their duty to provide sufficient information to allow Members to make properly informed decisions when voting on the Written Resolution"

2. Under the rules, the original Dundee vote should have stood.

"In any event, in terms of article 185 of the Articles, it was deemed to have been delivered when it was sent. The Dundee Rejection Vote was executed and had effect when it was sent at 4.48pm on 10 April 2020."

3. "That the affairs of the Company have been and are being conducted in the circumstances set out above in a manner that is unfairly prejudicial to the interests of Members, including the petitioners."

That’s not worth £8m is it?

Is that it? Okay, if that's all they've got then undo the Good Friday vote. Where does that leave matters? Doesn't mean they get their null and void that they were plotting in their cabal with Rangers and Inverness. Let them put forward their resolution for it and see where it gets them.

Surely it would be a matter of doing another vote on a resolution to end the league and will mostly likely get voted through. Even if it doesn't Neil Doncaster can use his executive powers to push it through. Would love to hear Leslie Deans squealing that he's not allowed to that.

[Andy74]

Is that it? Okay, if that's all they've got then undo the Good Friday vote. Where does that leave matters? Doesn't mean they get their null and void that they were plotting in their cabal with Rangers and Inverness. Let them put forward their resolution for it and see where it gets them.

Surely it would be a matter of doing another vote on a resolution to end the league and will mostly likely get voted through. Even if it doesn't Neil Doncaster can use his executive powers to push it through. Would love to hear Leslie Deans squealing that he's not allowed to that.

They’re just wrong.

A written resolution requires a yes within the allowed period. A no and a no return are the same thing and really don’t mean anything because it is only support that is asked for.

In company law if you say yes, and you’ve done it in the format that is required then that’s that. You’ve agreed.

If you say no or do nothing it makes no odds. You can still support up until the deadline, which is 28 days.

Deloitte reviewed this.

As I noted above if that document is accurate Hearts are quoting a section in the articles that deals with notices by the company. That’s not a relevant section.

[Since452]

Did Irish Steve break Hibs.Net? 😂

[Joe Baker2]

This is one huge smokescreen to hide the fact they are bankrupt. Nice one Budge. Keep up the good work. Maybe bring back Levein as manager?

[Del Boy]

They’re just wrong.

A written resolution requires a yes within the allowed period. A no and a no return are the same thing and really don’t mean anything because it is only support that is asked for.

In company law if you say yes, and you’ve done it in the format that is required then that’s that. You’ve agreed.

If you say no or do nothing it makes no odds. You can still support up until the deadline, which is 28 days.

Deloitte reviewed this.

As I noted above if that document is accurate Hearts are quoting a section in the articles that deals with notices by the company. That’s not a relevant section.

Yeah I thought the bit about being able to change a no vote but not a yes vote was explained weeks ago? That’s what Dundee did, so really didn’t matter whether first vote was received/seen or whatever.

[Andy74]

Yeah I thought the bit about being able to change a no vote but not a yes vote was explained weeks ago? That’s what Dundee did, so really didn’t matter whether first vote was received/seen or whatever.

Correct.

The QC involved also isn’t in his sweet spot here. He generally deals with conveyancing and construction disputes.

Quoting a completely irrelevant section of the SPFL articles just confirms anyone involved here for them is either out their depth or clutching at straws or both.

Hearts actually have a decent ex corporate lawyer on the board. I can only assume they aren’t listening to him.

[hibeerealist]

Did Irish Steve break Hibs.Net? 😂

Ha ha I think he thought he had, gremlins eh!!

[Scotty Leither]

Copied from JKB to save people the bother.....

Essentially three grounds .....

1. Materially inaccurate representation provided by the Directors to clubs as the basis for the Good Friday vote.

"The Directors’ failure to so explain matters to Members constituted a breach of their duty to provide sufficient information to allow Members to make properly informed decisions when voting on the Written Resolution"

2. Under the rules, the original Dundee vote should have stood.

"In any event, in terms of article 185 of the Articles, it was deemed to have been delivered when it was sent. The Dundee Rejection Vote was executed and had effect when it was sent at 4.48pm on 10 April 2020."

3. "That the affairs of the Company have been and are being conducted in the circumstances set out above in a manner that is unfairly prejudicial to the interests of Members, including the petitioners."

That’s not worth £8m is it?

That reads back like the wooly, ambiguous, legalese that (Edinburgh) lawyers especially use to couch their sniffy arguments in, and use same to justify their exorbitant fees.

Whoever they've engaged though, and whatever they're charging them it's not enough.

My non-legal judgement on first reading, is that it's certainly worth 8 million. Pesetas.

[007]

They’re just wrong.

A written resolution requires a yes within the allowed period. A no and a no return are the same thing and really don’t mean anything because it is only support that is asked for.

In company law if you say yes, and you’ve done it in the format that is required then that’s that. You’ve agreed.

If you say no or do nothing it makes no odds. You can still support up until the deadline, which is 28 days.

Deloitte reviewed this.

As I noted above if that document is accurate Hearts are quoting a section in the articles that deals with notices by the company. That’s not a relevant section.

Said a few weeks ago, as have plenty of others, if they're hanging their hat on the Dundee vote situation then their case seems flimsy at best. Can't see how even proving it was flawed means they should therefore be back in the Premiership (or get compensation) and Dundee United, Raith and Cove don't get promotion. All it means is the situation has still to be resolved somehow or other.

[CapitalGreen]

The solicitors seem to use the same proof-reader as Ann Budge as there is a number of typos in that document.

[hibeerealist]

Correct.

The QC involved also isn’t in his sweet spot here. He generally deals with conveyancing and construction disputes.

Quoting a completely irrelevant section of the SPFL articles just confirms anyone involved here for them is either out their depth or clutching at straws or both.

Hearts actually have a decent ex corporate lawyer on the board. I can only assume they aren’t listening to him.


It it seems like she really has lost the plot!

IF you are going to make a fuss and then opt to go legal at the very least use the best you can get as you don’t usually get a second bite at the cherry!!

Also if she is not listening to legal advice already on her board she is asking for trouble, surprised PT did not check and Agree it before it was delivered to court.

[Andy74]

Said a few weeks ago, as have plenty of others, if they're hanging their hat on the Dundee vote situation then their case seems flimsy at best. Can't see how even proving it was flawed means they should therefore be back in the Premiership (or get compensation) and Dundee United, Raith and Cove don't get promotion. All it means is the situation has still to be resolved somehow or other.

Yeah the remedy they are asking for does t match the alleged discrepancy.

They’ve done as amateur a job on this as they did on their stand.

This is Hearts fans hard earned money that Budge continues to throw away. They are lapping it up though and all their failures up to now don’t seem to be sinking in.

[bingo70]

Yeah the remedy they are asking for does t match the alleged discrepancy.

They’ve done as amateur a job on this as they did on their stand.

This is Hearts fans hard earned money that Budge continues to throw away. They are lapping it up though and all their failures up to now don’t seem to be sinking in.

Andy, I’m finding your confidence in this reassuring so please don’t take this the wrong way (and I’m not saying you’re wrong), but surely if they’ve got lawyers on the case are they not likely to know what they’re doing even if Hearts don’t? The boy David Winnie who is a sports lawyer also seemed a lot more confident in their chances than you are as well.

I’ve no idea if you come from a legal background or not but your confidence seems at odds to my natural assumption that a legal firm would know more about this than a guy I don’t know on a Hibs forum.

Hope you’re right though.

[007]

Andy, I’m finding your confidence in this reassuring so please don’t take this the wrong way (and I’m not saying you’re wrong), but surely if they’ve got lawyers on the case are they not likely to know what they’re doing even if Hearts don’t? The boy David Winnie who is a sports lawyer also seemed a lot more confident in their chances than you are as well.

I’ve no idea if you come from a legal background or not but your confidence seems at odds to my natural assumption that a legal firm would know more about this than a guy I don’t know on a Hibs forum.

Hope you’re right though.

Presumably the fans are now worried about their chances of getting a few quid in an out of court settlement never mind winning if it goes to court. I really hope it does go to court. It'll get laughed out.

[Andy74]

Andy, I’m finding your confidence in this reassuring so please don’t take this the wrong way (and I’m not saying you’re wrong), but surely if they’ve got lawyers on the case are they not likely to know what they’re doing even if Hearts don’t? The boy David Winnie who is a sports lawyer also seemed a lot more confident in their chances than you are as well.

I’ve no idea if you come from a legal background or not but your confidence seems at odds to my natural assumption that a legal firm would know more about this than a guy I don’t know on a Hibs forum.

Hope you’re right though.

David Winnie basically acts as an agent and company law and voting procedure isn’t his bag.

The QC is a Leslie Deans recommendation from conveyancing.

I’m encouraged that they are quoting the wrong things from the articles. Confirms that they are getting advice here from people who don’t have expertise in this area.

Yes, I’ve a legal and governance background.

[007]

Andy, I’m finding your confidence in this reassuring so please don’t take this the wrong way (and I’m not saying you’re wrong), but surely if they’ve got lawyers on the case are they not likely to know what they’re doing even if Hearts don’t? The boy David Winnie who is a sports lawyer also seemed a lot more confident in their chances than you are as well.

I’ve no idea if you come from a legal background or not but your confidence seems at odds to my natural assumption that a legal firm would know more about this than a guy I don’t know on a Hibs forum.

Hope you’re right though.

He maybe thinks they've got a better chance than many on here think they do but he actually said that at best their chances are 50/50. That means, by saying "at best", he actually thinks they're chances are less than 50%.

[007]

David Winnie basically acts as an agent and company law and voting procedure isn’t his bag.

The QC is a Leslie Deans recommendation from conveyancing.

I’m encouraged that they are quoting the wrong things from the articles. Confirms that they are getting advice here from people who don’t have expertise in this area.

Yes, I’ve a legal and governance background.

Make sure you don't post anything on here that would help them. 😃

[bingo70]

David Winnie basically acts as an agent and company law and voting procedure isn’t his bag.

The QC is a Leslie Deans recommendation from conveyancing.

I’m encouraged that they are quoting the wrong things from the articles. Confirms that they are getting advice here from people who don’t have expertise in this area.

Yes, I’ve a legal and governance background.

Brilliant, Cheers

The confidence of my jambo mates has fair taken the shine of their relegation for now. Sooner all this legal nonsense gets put to bed the better.

[Aldo]

Hope this going to be part of the documentary?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jack]

It seems the FF download is now only available if you're logged in. Perhaps its not surprising then that I've not been able to download it!

[Juice-Terry]

There can be no question that they are totally f**cked financially by relelgation. There is no other explanation for why Budge would do and say such extraordinary things. This could be the end of HOMFC.

[brog]

Said a few weeks ago, as have plenty of others, if they're hanging their hat on the Dundee vote situation then their case seems flimsy at best. Can't see how even proving it was flawed means they should therefore be back in the Premiership (or get compensation) and Dundee United, Raith and Cove don't get promotion. All it means is the situation has still to be resolved somehow or other.

It's been so long I'm struggling to remember the full circumstances of the vote in which Dundee changed their mind but did Hearts not also vote late on that occasion?

[Tug Wilson]

Damn. Would have loved to read the Petition.

[007]

It's been so long I'm struggling to remember the full circumstances of the vote in which Dundee changed their mind but did Hearts not also vote late on that occasion?

Clubs were asked to vote by 5pm on Friday but Hearts had seemingly forgotten to so were late however the 5pm wasn't a formal deadline because officially they could've taken 28 days if they'd wanted to.

[malcolm]

Andy, I’m finding your confidence in this reassuring so please don’t take this the wrong way (and I’m not saying you’re wrong), but surely if they’ve got lawyers on the case are they not likely to know what they’re doing even if Hearts don’t? The boy David Winnie who is a sports lawyer also seemed a lot more confident in their chances than you are as well.

I’ve no idea if you come from a legal background or not but your confidence seems at odds to my natural assumption that a legal firm would know more about this than a guy I don’t know on a Hibs forum.

Hope you’re right though.

If the law was black and white lawyers would not be earning huge amounts :greengrin. So while principles of the law can be clear it is the application of that in the particular facts and circumstances of a case that require to be weighed and judged. A legal professional might give an opinion on that and its likelihood of success but can’t guarantee it. A rather insistent client may push for a case to be pursued despite its chances being low. A solicitor will instruct an advocate. The advocate will share an opinion on the chances but is effectively a professional for hire to argue the case regardless of that view.

If that is indeed the basis of the case it seems as weak as expected so seems to be due to a desperately insistent client.

Ground 1 sounds like a repeat of the sevco whinge that seemed desperate then.

Ground 2 is similar to contractual law where the post office may have been considered to be the agent of the party making an offer and its acceptance by the other party deemed to be when posted. But this will be covered by what is explicitly set out in the spfl rules. The explanation of the ‘yes or not yes’ issue makes sense and would make that ‘deemed’ provision in the rules only relevant to a yes!

Ground 3 is not logical since as has been said this has been drawn out (ignoring the hearts interference) and so came up with the least unfair result in the interest of the majority not simply the petitioners in isolation who seem to be becoming more and more isolated.

[Andy74]

If the law was black and white lawyers would not be earning huge amounts :greengrin. So while principles of the law can be clear it is the application of that in the particular facts and circumstances of a case that require to be weighed and judged. A legal professional might give an opinion on that and its likelihood of success but can’t guarantee it. A rather insistent client may push for a case to be pursued despite its chances being low. A solicitor will instruct an advocate. The advocate will share an opinion on the chances but is effectively a professional for hire to argue the case regardless of that view.

If that is indeed the basis of the case it seems as weak as expected so seems to be due to a desperately insistent client.

Ground 1 sounds like a repeat of the sevco whinge that seemed desperate then.

Ground 2 is similar to contractual law where the post office may have been considered to be the agent of the party making an offer and its acceptance by the other party deemed to be when posted. But this will be covered by what is explicitly set out in the spfl rules. The explanation of the ‘yes or not yes’ issue makes sense and would make that ‘deemed’ provision in the rules only relevant to a yes!

Ground 3 is not logical since as has been said this has been drawn out (ignoring the hearts interference) and so came up with the least unfair result in the interest of the majority not simply the petitioners in isolation who seem to be becoming more and more isolated.

Agree this is being pushed by the client and they’ve found a QV daft enough to take it.

The fact this isn’t his field says it all.

Agree on 1.

On 2 it’s easier than that in company law. They are just wrong and the article they are quoting from the SPFL articles just isn’t relevant. The time it was sent makes no odds as it was a no - which could be changed.

Agree on 3.

[brog]

Clubs were asked to vote by 5pm on Friday but Hearts had seemingly forgotten to so were late however the 5pm wasn't a formal deadline because officially they could've taken 28 days if they'd wanted to.

Of course, thanks. Just another example of their outstanding professionalism though!

[greenginger]

Damn. Would have loved to read the Petition.


It runs to 30 pages. Guess the Q C ‘s. deal is he gets paid by the word. :greengrin

[Shrekko]

Brilliant, Cheers

The confidence of my jambo mates has fair taken the shine of their relegation for now. Sooner all this legal nonsense gets put to bed the better.

Do the Jambos ever give specific reasons as to why they’re confident? Everything I see from them on social media makes very little sense. I think they’re buoyed by seeing ‘Mrs Budge’ taking it all the way but I don’t think she had any choice after all the mouthing off they did. Seeing other clubs starting to make cuts is improving their mood too but I have never seen any legal basis for their case. The compensation sought is absolute fantasy- you can’t just pluck figures out the air without being able to justify them.

[h18eeynick]

Might be a silly question but does any law firm taking on a case not wish to check what finance is in place to cover their fees ? I assume that they may also be liable for any costs awarded against the Pursuer?

[Irish_Steve]

Did Irish Steve break Hibs.Net? 😂

I`m gonna get that on a t-shirt

Squeaky bum time there for a while lol

[Irish_Steve]

Again, it`s the DR but still gets a rise out of them on Courtback!

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sfa-contact-hearts-partick-thistle-22222264

[The Harp Awakes]

Correct.

The QC involved also isn’t in his sweet spot here. He generally deals with conveyancing and construction disputes.

Quoting a completely irrelevant section of the SPFL articles just confirms anyone involved here for them is either out their depth or clutching at straws or both.

Hearts actually have a decent ex corporate lawyer on the board. I can only assume they aren’t listening to him.

Correct and correct.

[bingo70]

Again, it`s the DR but still gets a rise out of them on Courtback!

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sfa-contact-hearts-partick-thistle-22222264

Brilliant. The more stuff like this the better.

[Springbank]

Again, it`s the DR but still gets a rise out of them on Courtback!

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sfa-contact-hearts-partick-thistle-22222264

This is way more serious for Thistle (and hearts) than the delusion cartel on kickback will ever realise

[Irish_Steve]

Brilliant. The more stuff like this the better.

Apparently it`s a non-story, just being asked to explain their position to the Compliance Officer - one poster actually called her "love" - dear oh dear!

[allezsauzee]

Might be a silly question but does any law firm taking on a case not wish to check what finance is in place to cover their fees ? I assume that they may also be liable for any costs awarded against the Pursuer?

The Jambos have financing in place for any legal action. Although they can't show the exact amount until they smash open the cash cow.

[007]

Again, it`s the DR but still gets a rise out of them on Courtback!

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sfa-contact-hearts-partick-thistle-22222264

Kick them out. Zero tolerance for those blatantly flouting the rules otherwise they'll just keep breaking them if you let them get away with it.

[Waxy]

I guess when they get chucked out the league, they’ll take the SFA to court and throw the jambo book at them.

[HNA8]

Can we please keep in mind what is appropriate content for the boards? :aok:

[Del Boy]

Seems very unfair that United, Raith and Cove are being affected by this. Until this is resolved these clubs are going to struggle to sell season tickets, agree contract extensions and sign new players. United’s players are back in training now and if Hearts get their way won’t plsy a match for another 4 months! Dundee Utd will have taken these players off furlough to begin training, United must be absolutely fuming.

What a nasty piece of work Budge is, hopefully the media wake up to this soon.

[AugustaHibs]

Has anyone got the petition saved or is it banned from here?

[Hibernianinc]

Ok. Can I just check what’s happened.

Herts are bottom of the league due to being utter rubbish at football.
The league is paused due to Covid, but herts say “you can’t relegate us, s’no fair”.
Herts are primed for relegation following an all club vote, but “that’ll never happen “.
Herts are relegated, but that’s ok because “Budge’s reconstruction plan will save us”
Budge’s plan is rubbish, but that’s ok because “Everyone is backing the hunz colts “
Colts is an even p1sher idea than 3*14, but that’s ok because “All the clubs bar the vermin are voting for 14-10 etc”
And even if there are a few sneaky clubs lying to L Deans, that’s ok because “ND will executive powers it through”
No E Powers and vote shows herts have no pals bar ICT and Forfar (for some reason). But that’s ok because “Court, burn it down!” (In fairness to all).
Petition appears to have been written by a child, but that’s ok because “everyone is bricking it and we’ll be invited back in so as to save Scottish football”
Scottish football considers expelling herts, while other clubs look to counter sue, but that’s ok because “this just makes our case stronger”.

If I’m up to speed, this doesn’t appear to be a crowning glory for the poppy thieves?

[Jdawg]

David Winnie basically acts as an agent and company law and voting procedure isn’t his bag.

The QC is a Leslie Deans recommendation from conveyancing.

I’m encouraged that they are quoting the wrong things from the articles. Confirms that they are getting advice here from people who don’t have expertise in this area.

Yes, I’ve a legal and governance background.

There’s absolutely no way you would get QC with a conveyancing background to raise a case like this. Conveyancers don’t go into real law. Conveyancing is barely law. If they have then it’s superb news.

Nothing against you btw.

[Tug Wilson]

Ok. Can I just check what’s happened.

Herts are bottom of the league due to being utter rubbish at football.
The league is paused due to Covid, but herts say “you can’t relegate us, s’no fair”.
Herts are primed for relegation following an all club vote, but “that’ll never happen “.
Herts are relegated, but that’s ok because “Budge’s reconstruction plan will save us”
Budge’s plan is rubbish, but that’s ok because “Everyone is backing the hunz colts “
Colts is an even p1sher idea than 3*14, but that’s ok because “All the clubs bar the vermin are voting for 14-10 etc”
And even if there are a few sneaky clubs lying to L Deans, that’s ok because “ND will executive powers it through”
No E Powers and vote shows herts have no pals bar ICT and Forfar (for some reason). But that’s ok because “Court, burn it down!” (In fairness to all).
Petition appears to have been written by a child, but that’s ok because “everyone is bricking it and we’ll be invited back in so as to save Scottish football”
Scottish football considers expelling herts, while other clubs look to counter sue, but that’s ok because “this just makes our case stronger”.

If I’m up to speed, this doesn’t appear to be a crowning glory for the poppy thieves?

Perfect summation.

You have to admire them coming back for more every time they get a knock back.

I suppose that their whole belief system is under threat so they just have to blind faith to fall back on.

[007]

Ok. Can I just check what’s happened.

Herts are bottom of the league due to being utter rubbish at football.
The league is paused due to Covid, but herts say “you can’t relegate us, s’no fair”.
Herts are primed for relegation following an all club vote, but “that’ll never happen “.
Herts are relegated, but that’s ok because “Budge’s reconstruction plan will save us”
Budge’s plan is rubbish, but that’s ok because “Everyone is backing the hunz colts “
Colts is an even p1sher idea than 3*14, but that’s ok because “All the clubs bar the vermin are voting for 14-10 etc”
And even if there are a few sneaky clubs lying to L Deans, that’s ok because “ND will executive powers it through”
No E Powers and vote shows herts have no pals bar ICT and Forfar (for some reason). But that’s ok because “Court, burn it down!” (In fairness to all).
Petition appears to have been written by a child, but that’s ok because “everyone is bricking it and we’ll be invited back in so as to save Scottish football”
Scottish football considers expelling herts, while other clubs look to counter sue, but that’s ok because “this just makes our case stronger”.

If I’m up to speed, this doesn’t appear to be a crowning glory for the poppy thieves?

Chuck in the Rangers dossier fiasco too which went on for a month and the original Budge Task Force proposal that went nowhere because the Premiership cabal told her it was a load of pish.

[FilipinoHibs]

Ok. Can I just check what’s happened.

Herts are bottom of the league due to being utter rubbish at football.
The league is paused due to Covid, but herts say “you can’t relegate us, s’no fair”.
Herts are primed for relegation following an all club vote, but “that’ll never happen “.
Herts are relegated, but that’s ok because “Budge’s reconstruction plan will save us”
Budge’s plan is rubbish, but that’s ok because “Everyone is backing the hunz colts “
Colts is an even p1sher idea than 3*14, but that’s ok because “All the clubs bar the vermin are voting for 14-10 etc”
And even if there are a few sneaky clubs lying to L Deans, that’s ok because “ND will executive powers it through”
No E Powers and vote shows herts have no pals bar ICT and Forfar (for some reason). But that’s ok because “Court, burn it down!” (In fairness to all).
Petition appears to have been written by a child, but that’s ok because “everyone is bricking it and we’ll be invited back in so as to save Scottish football”
Scottish football considers expelling herts, while other clubs look to counter sue, but that’s ok because “this just makes our case stronger”.

If I’m up to speed, this doesn’t appear to be a crowning glory for the poppy thieves?

Very good summary. You should be on Sportsound.

[Col2]

Perfect summation.

You have to admire them coming back for more every time they get a knock back.

I suppose that their whole belief system is under threat so they just have to blind faith to fall back on.

They are facing administration if they don’t get this reversed or a sizable compensation. It’s desperate.

[CraigHibee]

They are facing administration if they don’t get this reversed or a sizable compensation. It’s desperate.

They are ****ed, this is why melted fudge coupon wants a ridiculous amount, its embarrassing

[Tug Wilson]

They are ****ed, this is why melted fudge coupon wants a ridiculous amount, its embarrassing

Why are their fans so blind to this?

[mjhibby]

Perfect summation.

You have to admire them coming back for more every time they get a knock back.

I suppose that their whole belief system is under threat so they just have to blind faith to fall back on.

Their hubris is a joy to behold. They only problem is they have nothing to be arrogant about as the last few years have shown. Just makes the gigantic hole they are in just get bigger and bigger.

[Onion]

Again, it`s the DR but still gets a rise out of them on Courtback!

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/sfa-contact-hearts-partick-thistle-22222264

This could be the escape route Budge will have been looking for.

Allows her to stop the court case in it's tracks, tell the psychopathic Yams that the SFA have threatened to expelled them and legal action would be suicide for the club. Yam fans will be apoplectic but reluctantly accept Budge's decision and claim she did her best. It will feed their sense of self-victimisation which is all that matters to Hearts at the moment - as they've NOTHING else left.

Only question is whether or not Budge knew all along this is how it would play out ? That the SFA would step in, save Hearts from being embarrassed in court, but still satisfy the baying hoards of Hearts fans. In fact, Budge might have phoned the SFA herself :greengrin.

[theonlywayisup]

Good article by Graham Spiers in the Times - key comments below. It makes pleasing reading!

"This looks to me a classic case of “being seen to be doing something”, a scenario I have found recurring in football over the years, where club owners or principals have fans on their backs, clamouring for action."

"I don't blame Hearts for stance they are taking. But don't preach to others about the incestuous blight of "self interest" in Scottish football when this principle is exactly the one you are now applying yourself".

"I don't like to think of a Scottish top flight minus Hearts but one thing was a racing certainty from the months remaining of this season; the Jam Tarts were going down".

"When Stendel took over at Hearts in December, they were equal bottom beside St Johnstone and Hamilton Accies. Two wins in 14 attempts later, they were rock bottom, four points adrift".

"What was the answer to satisfy all? There wasn't one. It became impossible".

"I fear Hearts will have to take their medicine for poor decision-making, poor investment and a lack of effective governance from the top down (surely he doesn't mean Ann Budge, thought she was a shrewd business leader)".

"......but injustice is not the author of Hearts' fate. On the contrary, the club itself earned its demotion".

"Unfortunately, I think they face a painful season ahead. Once the exemplary story of Scottish football - Hearts, Budge, Craig Levein - this is a dream that has turned extremely sour".

Link below, but subscription required, which I don't have. I've read in the paper version.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ann-budge-has-made-her-move-but-injustice-is-not-the-author-of-hearts-fate-rzjwmvh8l

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Sue there was one of them that the cove, utd and Raith statements were more in support of their legal bid against the spfl rather than against them

[hibeerealist]

Ok. Can I just check what’s happened.

Herts are bottom of the league due to being utter rubbish at football.
The league is paused due to Covid, but herts say “you can’t relegate us, s’no fair”.
Herts are primed for relegation following an all club vote, but “that’ll never happen “.
Herts are relegated, but that’s ok because “Budge’s reconstruction plan will save us”
Budge’s plan is rubbish, but that’s ok because “Everyone is backing the hunz colts “
Colts is an even p1sher idea than 3*14, but that’s ok because “All the clubs bar the vermin are voting for 14-10 etc”
And even if there are a few sneaky clubs lying to L Deans, that’s ok because “ND will executive powers it through”
No E Powers and vote shows herts have no pals bar ICT and Forfar (for some reason). But that’s ok because “Court, burn it down!” (In fairness to all).
Petition appears to have been written by a child, but that’s ok because “everyone is bricking it and we’ll be invited back in so as to save Scottish football”
Scottish football considers expelling herts, while other clubs look to counter sue, but that’s ok because “this just makes our case stronger”.


If I’m up to speed, this doesn’t appear to be a crowning glory for the poppy thieves?

Perfect summary, for all Duncans peeking in IT IS THE HOPE THAT KILLS, sleep well!

[McSwanky]

Good article by Graham Spiers in the Times - key comments below. It makes pleasing reading!

"This looks to me a classic case of “being seen to be doing something”, a scenario I have found recurring in football over the years, where club owners or principals have fans on their backs, clamouring for action."

"I don't blame Hearts for stance they are taking. But don't preach to others about the incestuous blight of "self interest" in Scottish football when this principle is exactly the one you are now applying yourself".

"I don't like to think of a Scottish top flight minus Hearts but one thing was a racing certainty from the months remaining of this season; the Jam Tarts were going down".

"When Stendel took over at Hearts in December, they were equal bottom beside St Johnstone and Hamilton Accies. Two wins in 14 attempts later, they were rock bottom, four points adrift".

"What was the answer to satisfy all? There wasn't one. It became impossible".

"I fear Hearts will have to take their medicine for poor decision-making, poor investment and a lack of effective governance from the top down (surely he doesn't mean Ann Budge, thought she was a shrewd business leader)".

"......but injustice is not the author of Hearts' fate. On the contrary, the club itself earned its demotion".

"Unfortunately, I think they face a painful season ahead. Once the exemplary story of Scottish football - Hearts, Budge, Craig Levein - this is a dream that has turned extremely sour".

Link below, but subscription required, which I don't have. I've read in the paper version.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ann-budge-has-made-her-move-but-injustice-is-not-the-author-of-hearts-fate-rzjwmvh8l

Spiers has the measure of the situation. Particularly like his comment on the irony of the "self interest" argument and the fact that there was no one solution which guaranteed no losers.

Like him or loathe him, Spiers is one of the few proper sports journalists out there. Worlds apart from the dross the BBC are putting out these days.

Sent from my HRY-LX1 using Tapatalk

[cocteautwin]

Good article by Graham Spiers in the Times - key comments below. It makes pleasing reading!

"This looks to me a classic case of “being seen to be doing something”, a scenario I have found recurring in football over the years, where club owners or principals have fans on their backs, clamouring for action."

"I don't blame Hearts for stance they are taking. But don't preach to others about the incestuous blight of "self interest" in Scottish football when this principle is exactly the one you are now applying yourself".

"I don't like to think of a Scottish top flight minus Hearts but one thing was a racing certainty from the months remaining of this season; the Jam Tarts were going down".

"When Stendel took over at Hearts in December, they were equal bottom beside St Johnstone and Hamilton Accies. Two wins in 14 attempts later, they were rock bottom, four points adrift".

"What was the answer to satisfy all? There wasn't one. It became impossible".

"I fear Hearts will have to take their medicine for poor decision-making, poor investment and a lack of effective governance from the top down (surely he doesn't mean Ann Budge, thought she was a shrewd business leader)".

"......but injustice is not the author of Hearts' fate. On the contrary, the club itself earned its demotion".

"Unfortunately, I think they face a painful season ahead. Once the exemplary story of Scottish football - Hearts, Budge, Craig Levein - this is a dream that has turned extremely sour".

Link below, but subscription required, which I don't have. I've read in the paper version.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/ann-budge-has-made-her-move-but-injustice-is-not-the-author-of-hearts-fate-rzjwmvh8l

This is the one bit in the article that confused me. At what stage were Hearts exemplary? They've been spending donated cash like a madman since they came out of Admin. I remember they had a few weeks when they were top of the league a couple of years ago but that was really only a few weeks. Apart from that they've been an embarrassing example of how not to run a football club.

[Onion]

Ok. Can I just check what’s happened.

Herts are bottom of the league due to being utter rubbish at football.
The league is paused due to Covid, but herts say “you can’t relegate us, s’no fair”.
Herts are primed for relegation following an all club vote, but “that’ll never happen “.
Herts are relegated, but that’s ok because “Budge’s reconstruction plan will save us”
Budge’s plan is rubbish, but that’s ok because “Everyone is backing the hunz colts “
Colts is an even p1sher idea than 3*14, but that’s ok because “All the clubs bar the vermin are voting for 14-10 etc”
And even if there are a few sneaky clubs lying to L Deans, that’s ok because “ND will executive powers it through”
No E Powers and vote shows herts have no pals bar ICT and Forfar (for some reason). But that’s ok because “Court, burn it down!” (In fairness to all).
Petition appears to have been written by a child, but that’s ok because “everyone is bricking it and we’ll be invited back in so as to save Scottish football”
Scottish football considers expelling herts, while other clubs look to counter sue, but that’s ok because “this just makes our case stronger”.

If I’m up to speed, this doesn’t appear to be a crowning glory for the poppy thieves?

Briliiant. Sometimes it takes social media to cut through all the crap from the highly paid MSM.

[Caversham Green]

I think their strongest point is the claim of inaccuarate information provided by the SPFL board but even that is pretty light in substance. It's a complete regurgitation of the complaints Sevco made when they demanded Doncaster's resignation and I assume the SPFL's response will be the same as then. I suspect this is the reason Sevco voted against reconstruction so that their complaints would finally reach a court. They cite the Motherwell and Partick Thistle advance of a few years ago but there's a fairly easy response to that in that similar advances to all 42 clubs was not practical either in terms of due diligence and the amounts involved.

The Dundee vote is a non-starter IMO for the reasons Andy74 has already outlined. The bottom line there is that the resolution needed the support of 75% of Championship clubs (along with other criteria) and that support was ultimately received. The no vote and premature publication of results was really just white noise. There is a further argument that the SPFL board would have been justified in using its executive powers had the vote failed and the end result would have been the same.

I think both clubs have further weakened their case by complying with the decision without formal protest. Hearts have voted and acted as a Championship club and Thistle have voted and acted as a League 1 club since these decisions were made. If they disputed the decisions they should not have done so IMO.

[Andy74]

There’s absolutely no way you would get QC with a conveyancing background to raise a case like this. Conveyancers don’t go into real law. Conveyancing is barely law. If they have then it’s superb news.

Nothing against you btw.

He’s a proper QC, not a conveyancer, but his areas of specialism are more in disputes around conveyancing and construction. I’d posted his bio earlier.

[CentreLine]

This is the one bit in the article that confused me. At what stage were Hearts exemplary? They've been spending donated cash like a madman since they came out of Admin. I remember they had a few weeks when they were top of the league a couple of years ago but that was really only a few weeks. Apart from that they've been an embarrassing example of how not to run a football club.

I think he may be going way back before admin. It is perfectly fair to use the term “exemplary” in terms of almost every club around the turn of the 19th/20th century.

[hibsbollah]

This could be the escape route Budge will have been looking for.

Allows her to stop the court case in it's tracks, tell the psychopathic Yams that the SFA have threatened to expelled them and legal action would be suicide for the club. Yam fans will be apoplectic but reluctantly accept Budge's decision and claim she did her best. It will feed their sense of self-victimisation which is all that matters to Hearts at the moment - as they've NOTHING else left.

Only question is whether or not Budge knew all along this is how it would play out ? That the SFA would step in, save Hearts from being embarrassed in court, but still satisfy the baying hoards of Hearts fans. In fact, Budge might have phoned the SFA herself :greengrin.

I think this is 100% what is going on :agree:

[Bostonhibby]

I think this is 100% what is going on :agree:There's a strong possibility this is right, it probably just needs someone who knows how to manage a football clubs finances and create an enduring infrastructure, like say Rod Petrie from the SFA to sit her down and offer a face saving way out.

She can then get back to doing sessions to tell all the other chief executives and owners how it should be done, there's no reason why they can't all achieve what Hearts have since the Budge Levein era began.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Kojock]

He’s a proper QC, not a conveyancer, but his areas of specialism are more in disputes around conveyancing and construction. I’d posted his bio earlier.

Budgie told us they had two QC’s tho.

[04Sauzee]

Budgie told us they had two QC’s tho.

Got confused with WC's

[hibsbollah]

Budgie told us they had two QC’s tho.

With HMFC sort code and account number printed on their court robes :agree:

[et_hibby]

Got confused with WC's

... but unfortunately forgot to order the seats.

[RIP Bestie]

I think this is 100% what is going on :agree:

Or maybe it is a fact that the board of the SPFL are indeed corrupt and Rangers had it right. Maybe we should have gone down the investigation/enquiry route.
Maybe Neil Doncaster has got into the ear of the equally corrupt press and got them to say that the clubs were looking to expel Hearts and Partick as a threat to them to try to stop this action. Maybe an investigation would have scuppered Doncasters impending role in UEFA.
Does anyone on here really honestly think that Hearts are stupid enough to throw millions at a legal challenge if they didn't think they had a case?
Even with the backing of Anderson that would never be a course of action that would recieve approval by the board or even the FOH. This tells me that there is, or they strongly believe,there is a case here. Whether the compensation package is as much as is being touted is a different matter.
Im my opinion it is wise for clubs like Hibs and Aberdeen (as their plans have been aired) to prepare for what could be coming.

[greenginger]

https://ptfc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/2020.04.14-FINAL-Joint-Opinion-PTFC.pdf

I see Thistle had a Q C , Thomson, and an advocate Anderson working on their last legal quest.

Maybe old Annie doesn’t know the difference between the two, a bit like she couldn’t tell the difference between an advance and a loan.

I think people are letting her dig a hole for herself so they can shift out of the Tynecastle boardroom.

What is it with Anderson’s and them . Anderson the donor , Anderson the advocate, Anderson the EEN a***licker :greengrin

[greenpaper55]

Or maybe it is a fact that the board of the SPFL are indeed corrupt and Rangers had it right. Maybe we should have gone down the investigation/enquiry route.
Maybe Neil Doncaster has got into the ear of the equally corrupt press and got them to say that the clubs were looking to expel Hearts and Partick as a threat to them to try to stop this action. Maybe an investigation would have scuppered Doncasters impending role in UEFA.
Does anyone on here really honestly think that Hearts are stupid enough to throw millions at a legal challenge if they didn't think they had a case?
Even with the backing of Anderson that would never be a course of action that would recieve approval by the board or even the FOH. This tells me that there is, or they strongly believe,there is a case here. Whether the compensation package is as much as is being touted is a different matter.
Im my opinion it is wise for clubs like Hibs and Aberdeen (as their plans have been aired) to prepare for what could be coming.

Nah !

[Peevemor]

Or maybe it is a fact that the board of the SPFL are indeed corrupt and Rangers had it right. Maybe we should have gone down the investigation/enquiry route.
Maybe Neil Doncaster has got into the ear of the equally corrupt press and got them to say that the clubs were looking to expel Hearts and Partick as a threat to them to try to stop this action. Maybe an investigation would have scuppered Doncasters impending role in UEFA.
Does anyone on here really honestly think that Hearts are stupid enough to throw millions at a legal challenge if they didn't think they had a case?
Even with the backing of Anderson that would never be a course of action that would recieve approval by the board or even the FOH. This tells me that there is, or they strongly believe,there is a case here. Whether the compensation package is as much as is being touted is a different matter.
Im my opinion it is wise for clubs like Hibs and Aberdeen (as their plans have been aired) to prepare for what could be coming.Nothing to do with anything but about 25 years ago we took a client to court for a £1500 unpaid bill. We did so on the advice of our solicitor, who then advised using an advocate, all supported by our insurers who were paying 80% of our fees. All the way along we were advised, by everyone, to pursue our case as we were in the right. We were sure to win.

In the end we lost and the legal fees topped £30k.

It's always the same group of people who win in these instances.

[Caversham Green]

Or maybe it is a fact that the board of the SPFL are indeed corrupt and Rangers had it right. Maybe we should have gone down the investigation/enquiry route.
Maybe Neil Doncaster has got into the ear of the equally corrupt press and got them to say that the clubs were looking to expel Hearts and Partick as a threat to them to try to stop this action. Maybe an investigation would have scuppered Doncasters impending role in UEFA.
Does anyone on here really honestly think that Hearts are stupid enough to throw millions at a legal challenge if they didn't think they had a case?
Even with the backing of Anderson that would never be a course of action that would recieve approval by the board or even the FOH. This tells me that there is, or they strongly believe,there is a case here. Whether the compensation package is as much as is being touted is a different matter.
Im my opinion it is wise for clubs like Hibs and Aberdeen (as their plans have been aired) to prepare for what could be coming.

If it ever gets to court the hearing won't look into whether or not Doncaster is corrupt, nor will it consider whether he got the press to publish stories about clubs looking to expel Hearts and Partick (I haven't seen any stories that said that anyway, only the Daily Record suggesting what might happen). All the court will do is consider whether the SPFL board's actions in relation to the Good Friday vote complied with the organisation's rules. All the information I've seen suggests that they did.

[RIP Bestie]

Nah !

Quality response. You keep your head in the sand son.

[greenpaper55]

There should be developments on Tuesday i heard !

[Jack]

This is the one bit in the article that confused me. At what stage were Hearts exemplary? They've been spending donated cash like a madman since they came out of Admin. I remember they had a few weeks when they were top of the league a couple of years ago but that was really only a few weeks. Apart from that they've been an embarrassing example of how not to run a football club.

Personally I think Budgie was saying and doing a fair few good things at the outset. At the start I was concerned they may be on the right track.

She set about building a new stand.
She had decent managers and a reasonable team.
She tackled the neds among the support.
She made the right noises at the right time Jambo wise.
She attracted a multimillionaire to pump millions into the club and kept FoH pumping their millions in too.

Ultimately she wasn't able to follow through with any of the plans she set up. Total and complete failure.

The stand is a classic how not to build or complete a football stadium. It could be used in building exams for decades to come with students asked to discuss their favourite where it all went wrong! It was a series of failures from start to finish.

Potters time as DoF, manager/DoF, DoF saw the signing of 100s of duff players, duff tactics and a decline from mediocrity to crap and relegated.

The extra millions have been squandered on and off the pitch quicker than if she'd set a match to it.

From a good start with them, IMO, she's slowly but surely lost the plot. She and her tawdry club are in as bad a state as they ever have been in the 50 years or so I've followed football.

[007]

Do the Jambos ever give specific reasons as to why they’re confident? Everything I see from them on social media makes very little sense. I think they’re buoyed by seeing ‘Mrs Budge’ taking it all the way but I don’t think she had any choice after all the mouthing off they did. Seeing other clubs starting to make cuts is improving their mood too but I have never seen any legal basis for their case. The compensation sought is absolute fantasy- you can’t just pluck figures out the air without being able to justify them.

When it comes to having common sense they've developed a herd immunity.

[RIP Bestie]

If it ever gets to court the hearing won't look into whether or not Doncaster is corrupt, nor will it consider whether he got the press to publish stories about clubs looking to expel Hearts and Partick (I haven't seen any stories that said that anyway, only the Daily Record suggesting what might happen). All the court will do is consider whether the SPFL board's actions in relation to the Good Friday vote complied with the organisation's rules. All the information I've seen suggests that they did.

Im not suggesting any of that will form part of the case, merely that Doncaster coukd have got his friends at the DR to run the story to try to deter Hearts from taking the legal route.
What will form part of the legal case is how Doncaster or others have conducted the "vote".

[FilipinoHibs]

Personally I think Budgie was saying and doing a fair few good things at the outset. At the start I was concerned they may be on the right track.

She set about building a new stand.
She had decent managers and a reasonable team.
She tackled the neds among the support.
She made the right noises at the right time Jambo wise.
She attracted a multimillionaire to pump millions into the club and kept FoH pumping their millions in too.

Ultimately she wasn't able to follow through with any of the plans she set up. Total and complete failure.

The stand is a classic how not to build or complete a football stadium. It could be used in building exams for decades to come with students asked to discuss their favourite where it all went wrong! It was a series of failures from start to finish.

Potters time as DoF, manager/DoF, DoF saw the signing of 100s of duff players, duff tactics and a decline from mediocrity to crap and relegated.

The extra millions have been squandered on and off the pitch quicker than if she'd set a match to it.

From a good start with them, IMO, she's slowly but surely lost the plot. She and her tawdry club are in as bad a state as they ever have been in the 50 years or so I've followed football.

The bizarre management appointments including getting rid of a good one because of one bad result.

[tamig]

The bizarre management appointments including getting rid of a good one because of one bad result.

That was her buckling to the fans. And a plane of course.

[Caversham Green]

Im not suggesting any of that will form part of the case, merely that Doncaster coukd have got his friends at the DR to run the story to try to deter Hearts from taking the legal route.
What will form part of the legal case is how Doncaster or others have conducted the "vote".

I think if the Record were acting under instruction they would have quoted an unidentified "source" saying that a move to expel them was imminent rather than just saying there were fears that it might happen.

As for Hearts' motives, I and others have said we believe they're looking for an out of court settlement to save face and keep their fans quiet. I think they've pitched their opening figure too high though.

[hibsbollah]

Or maybe it is a fact that the board of the SPFL are indeed corrupt and Rangers had it right. Maybe we should have gone down the investigation/enquiry route.
Maybe Neil Doncaster has got into the ear of the equally corrupt press and got them to say that the clubs were looking to expel Hearts and Partick as a threat to them to try to stop this action. Maybe an investigation would have scuppered Doncasters impending role in UEFA.
Does anyone on here really honestly think that Hearts are stupid enough to throw millions at a legal challenge if they didn't think they had a case?
Even with the backing of Anderson that would never be a course of action that would recieve approval by the board or even the FOH. This tells me that there is, or they strongly believe,there is a case here. Whether the compensation package is as much as is being touted is a different matter.
Im my opinion it is wise for clubs like Hibs and Aberdeen (as their plans have been aired) to prepare for what could be coming.

As far as I’m aware they haven’t ‘thrown millions’ at anything yet. They can still withdraw gracelessly, and of course nobody knows for sure but that’s my prediction.

[malcolm]

Or maybe it is a fact that the board of the SPFL are indeed corrupt and Rangers had it right. Maybe we should have gone down the investigation/enquiry route.
Maybe Neil Doncaster has got into the ear of the equally corrupt press and got them to say that the clubs were looking to expel Hearts and Partick as a threat to them to try to stop this action. Maybe an investigation would have scuppered Doncasters impending role in UEFA.
Does anyone on here really honestly think that Hearts are stupid enough to throw millions at a legal challenge if they didn't think they had a case?
Even with the backing of Anderson that would never be a course of action that would recieve approval by the board or even the FOH. This tells me that there is, or they strongly believe,there is a case here. Whether the compensation package is as much as is being touted is a different matter.
Im my opinion it is wise for clubs like Hibs and Aberdeen (as their plans have been aired) to prepare for what could be coming.

If they were spending millions in legal fees then they I think would indeed be stupid. That would be in addition to what otherwise looks like desperation. A more revealing yet still speculative insight as to what may be ‘fact’ might be found by considering the likely agendas of the both hearts and sevco.

As to all the suggestions of ‘corruption’ is it the spfl board, the member clubs or the spfl employees who are corrupt? Who is it that is offering them money or personal gain and to what end? The only whiff of money being involved in dubious circumstances seems to have been the ‘strings then no strings‘ financial support dangled by budge.

[Springbank]

Im not suggesting any of that will form part of the case, merely that Doncaster coukd have got his friends at the DR to run the story to try to deter Hearts from taking the legal route.
What will form part of the legal case is how Doncaster or others have conducted the "vote".

You're not winning me over Bestie

Hearts haven't got a case here
It is non existent AND they will be punished for going to a local court over the Court for Arbitration in Sport

Sure, they have blind faith & venom aplenty, but that doesnt produce a legal case that stands up.

[MrSmith]

You're not winning me over Bestie

Hearts haven't got a case here
It is non existent AND they will be punished for going to a local court over the Court for Arbitration in Sport

Sure, they have blind faith & venom aplenty, but that doesn't produce a legal case that stands up.

Exactly! I’ve been banging on about this for weeks now. Not only have they broken local association rules, they have broken FIFA/UEFA rules too.

The jumbos are desperate and for me, that only means one thing, they are going bust.

[Iggy Pope]

https://ptfc.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2020/04/2020.04.14-FINAL-Joint-Opinion-PTFC.pdf

I see Thistle had a Q C , Thomson, and an advocate Anderson working on their last legal quest.

Maybe old Annie doesn’t know the difference between the two, a bit like she couldn’t tell the difference between an advance and a loan.

I think people are letting her dig a hole for herself so they can shift out of the Tynecastle boardroom.

What is it with Anderson’s and them . Anderson the donor , Anderson the advocate, Anderson the EEN a***licker :greengrin

Not forgetting Alan Anderson their legendary No 5 in the seven nil game.

[mutley]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/53119566




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[Rumble de Thump]

Or maybe it is a fact that the board of the SPFL are indeed corrupt and Rangers had it right. Maybe we should have gone down the investigation/enquiry route.
Maybe Neil Doncaster has got into the ear of the equally corrupt press and got them to say that the clubs were looking to expel Hearts and Partick as a threat to them to try to stop this action. Maybe an investigation would have scuppered Doncasters impending role in UEFA.
Does anyone on here really honestly think that Hearts are stupid enough to throw millions at a legal challenge if they didn't think they had a case?
Even with the backing of Anderson that would never be a course of action that would recieve approval by the board or even the FOH. This tells me that there is, or they strongly believe,there is a case here. Whether the compensation package is as much as is being touted is a different matter.
Im my opinion it is wise for clubs like Hibs and Aberdeen (as their plans have been aired) to prepare for what could be coming.

Hearts aren't stupid enough to waste millions of pounds? Good one :greengrin

[Andy74]

I've now read the whole thing. Full of mistakes and incorrect references and ends with basically saying it isn't fair.

[KeithTheHibby]

Personally I think Budgie was saying and doing a fair few good things at the outset. At the start I was concerned they may be on the right track.

She set about building a new stand.
She had decent managers and a reasonable team.
She tackled the neds among the support.
She made the right noises at the right time Jambo wise.
She attracted a multimillionaire to pump millions into the club and kept FoH pumping their millions in too.

Ultimately she wasn't able to follow through with any of the plans she set up. Total and complete failure.

The stand is a classic how not to build or complete a football stadium. It could be used in building exams for decades to come with students asked to discuss their favourite where it all went wrong! It was a series of failures from start to finish.

Potters time as DoF, manager/DoF, DoF saw the signing of 100s of duff players, duff tactics and a decline from mediocrity to crap and relegated.

The extra millions have been squandered on and off the pitch quicker than if she'd set a match to it.

From a good start with them, IMO, she's slowly but surely lost the plot. She and her tawdry club are in as bad a state as they ever have been in the 50 years or so I've followed football.


I agree.

Why on earth when she managed to get her feet firmly under the table did she not appoint an experienced CEO similar to what we did with LD? She has tried to manage every aspect of Hearts and has arguably made a mess of every major decision she has made going back to when they let Neilson leave.

She is her own worse enemy, simple as.

[Since452]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/53119566




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Hell mend Partick for getting into bed with those skeekit bitter tramps

[KeithTheHibby]

I've now read the whole thing. Full of mistakes and incorrect references and ends with basically saying it isn't fair.

I have seen the point mentioned a few times on twitter regarding the Dundee vote which was changed - do they not have a reasonable argument there?

[Peevemor]

I have seen the point mentioned a few times on twitter regarding the Dundee vote which was changed - do they not have a reasonable argument there?Even if an initial no vote had been counted, Dundee still had the right to change it to a yes.

[CapitalGreen]

I have seen the point mentioned a few times on twitter regarding the Dundee vote which was changed - do they not have a reasonable argument there?

My understanding is that there is no such thing as a no vote when responding to a written resolution under company law. A written resolution is put to members with a 28 day period for members to signify whether they are in favour. If over 75% of members signify agreement the amendment is passed. If less than 75% of members have signified agreement after the 28 days then the resolution does not pass. As only agreements to the resolution are recorded, a member who previously indicated they were not in favour can provide an agreement to the resolution at a later date as long as they do so before the 28 day deadline.

“Procedure for signifying agreement (sec296 - sec297)
Agreement is signified by the company receiving an authenticated document (hard copy or electronic) identifying the resolution to which it relates and indicating his agreement to it. Once signified, agreement cannot be revoked.” - https://www.companylawclub.co.uk/written-resolutions#Pro

[RIP Bestie]

You're not winning me over Bestie

Hearts haven't got a case here
It is non existent AND they will be punished for going to a local court over the Court for Arbitration in Sport

Sure, they have blind faith & venom aplenty, but that doesnt produce a legal case that stands up.

And I appreciate that. We all have a right to see things our own way and I accept that I may be totally wrong.
I just think that Hearts see something in this. I'm not so sure that the SPFL have been upfront and honest in how they implimented, managed or indeed proposed the vote to end the seaaon and I think that would give grounds for a successful legal challenge. I also think it is telling that certain clubs are beginning to get their ducks in a row for what I think could be a very costly outcome. But as I say I could be wrong.

[Andy74]

My understanding is that there is no such thing as a no vote when responding to a written resolution under company law. A written resolution is put to members with a 28 day period for members to signify whether they are in favour. If over 75% of members signify agreement the amendment is passed. If less than 75% of members have signified agreement after the 28 days then the resolution does not pass. As only agreements to the resolution are recorded, a member who previously indicated they were not in favour can provide an agreement to the resolution at a later date as long as they do so before the 28 day deadline.

“Procedure for signifying agreement (sec296 - sec297)
Agreement is signified by the company receiving an authenticated document (hard copy or electronic) identifying the resolution to which it relates and indicating his agreement to it. Once signified, agreement cannot be revoked.” - https://www.companylawclub.co.uk/written-resolutions#Pro

This is right - they are all over the place with it though because despite claiming the Dundee vote aspect to this they are also only asking for parts of the written resolution not to be implemented - or alternatively their £8m. They are fine with the rest of it other than relegation and promotion.

[Ozyhibby]

This is right - they are all over the place with it though because despite claiming the Dundee vote aspect to this they are also only asking for parts of the written resolution not to be implemented - or alternatively their £8m. They are fine with the rest of it other than relegation and promotion.

And also the SPFL can point to the audit of the Dundee vote that they commissioned by Deloitte.


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[Rumble de Thump]

And also the SPFL can point to the audit of the Dundee vote that they commissioned by Deloitte.


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They can also point to Sevco's dossier of evidence, which contained no evidence.

[Springbank]

And I appreciate that. We all have a right to see things our own way and I accept that I may be totally wrong.
I just think that Hearts see something in this. I'm not so sure that the SPFL have been upfront and honest in how they implimented, managed or indeed proposed the vote to end the seaaon and I think that would give grounds for a successful legal challenge. I also think it is telling that certain clubs are beginning to get their ducks in a row for what I think could be a very costly outcome. But as I say I could be wrong.
Appreciate the reply atb

[Aldo]

So are folk complaining ie Hearts/PT and media pundits that the DR is running a story about the SFA looking at taking action and then maybe getting expelled?? And it’s bullying??


FFS this is all budge has fed to the media for months. Full of fuelled threats and coercion.


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[matty_f]

This is right - they are all over the place with it though because despite claiming the Dundee vote aspect to this they are also only asking for parts of the written resolution not to be implemented - or alternatively their £8m. They are fine with the rest of it other than relegation and promotion.

I think they're also pointing to a non-disclosure of information relating ahead of the vote, which I believe is around the liability to the TV broadcasters for not showing games.

I think Doncaster has already explained this one away by saying that the loss would have happened anyway as a result of the games not being able to be fulfilled as outlined by the agreement they had in place so would have no bearing on the issue being voted on.

[Paisley Hibby]

Or maybe it is a fact that the board of the SPFL are indeed corrupt and Rangers had it right. Maybe we should have gone down the investigation/enquiry route.
Maybe Neil Doncaster has got into the ear of the equally corrupt press and got them to say that the clubs were looking to expel Hearts and Partick as a threat to them to try to stop this action. Maybe an investigation would have scuppered Doncasters impending role in UEFA.
Does anyone on here really honestly think that Hearts are stupid enough to throw millions at a legal challenge if they didn't think they had a case?
Even with the backing of Anderson that would never be a course of action that would recieve approval by the board or even the FOH. This tells me that there is, or they strongly believe,there is a case here. Whether the compensation package is as much as is being touted is a different matter.
Im my opinion it is wise for clubs like Hibs and Aberdeen (as their plans have been aired) to prepare for what could be coming.

How much money is there in Scottish football as a whole do you think? Don't know about you but I'd guess certainly not enough to tempt me to be corrupt. What exactly would SPFL officials get out of being corrupt? They are quite possibly not very competent but corrupt? Nah.

[brog]

And I appreciate that. We all have a right to see things our own way and I accept that I may be totally wrong.
I just think that Hearts see something in this. I'm not so sure that the SPFL have been upfront and honest in how they implimented, managed or indeed proposed the vote to end the seaaon and I think that would give grounds for a successful legal challenge. I also think it is telling that certain clubs are beginning to get their ducks in a row for what I think could be a very costly outcome. But as I say I could be wrong.

What clubs are getting their ducks in a row & what do you think could be a very costly outcome? Not having a pop at you, I'm genuinely unaware of the first & can't see how it could be a 'very costly outcome' for us as an example.

[Eyrie]

And I appreciate that. We all have a right to see things our own way and I accept that I may be totally wrong.
I just think that Hearts see something in this. I'm not so sure that the SPFL have been upfront and honest in how they implimented, managed or indeed proposed the vote to end the seaaon and I think that would give grounds for a successful legal challenge. I also think it is telling that certain clubs are beginning to get their ducks in a row for what I think could be a very costly outcome. But as I say I could be wrong.

The only ducks being lined up by certain clubs are those which are judged expendable due to the impact of coronavirus.

Even if (and it's a massive IF) Hearts win their case, they won't get £8m. That was half their turnover in their most recent accounts and totally ignores costs. They can only claim for loss of profit and most of that loss will be due to the effects of coronavirus, so their claim is reduced to only the difference in prize money between the Premiership and the second tier together with reduced attendances. But they would get only a fraction of that reduced claim because they would have to demonstrate that they would have stayed up if the season had been played out on the pitch and the historic evidence is very much against them.

The absolute worst case for Scottish football is in the low hundreds of thousands.

[jacomo]

And I appreciate that. We all have a right to see things our own way and I accept that I may be totally wrong.
I just think that Hearts see something in this. I'm not so sure that the SPFL have been upfront and honest in how they implimented, managed or indeed proposed the vote to end the seaaon and I think that would give grounds for a successful legal challenge. I also think it is telling that certain clubs are beginning to get their ducks in a row for what I think could be a very costly outcome. But as I say I could be wrong.


Legal cases are rarely completely one-sided. Dig deep enough and you can usually find something as evidence to back up your argument.

Hearts are playing a very high stakes game though, and appear to have a pretty weak hand. Either Budge has nerves of steel, has no idea what she is doing, or is so desperate that she thinks this is the only option she has.

She’s already obliged three clubs to seek legal advice to defend their position. She is forcing the SPFL to spend time on this rather than get football up and running again.

If she wins, it will cost the other clubs money and cause a lot of bad blood. Hearts might feel vindicated but they will be detested for it.

If she loses... well, things might get a lot, lot worse for them.

[Brunswickbill]

The only ducks being lined up by certain clubs are those which are judged expendable due to the impact of coronavirus.

Even if (and it's a massive IF) Hearts win their case, they won't get £8m. That was half their turnover in their most recent accounts and totally ignores costs. They can only claim for loss of profit and most of that loss will be due to the effects of coronavirus, so their claim is reduced to only the difference in prize money between the Premiership and the second tier together with reduced attendances. But they would get only a fraction of that reduced claim because they would have to demonstrate that they would have stayed up if the season had been played out on the pitch and the historic evidence is very much against them.

The absolute worst case for Scottish football is in the low hundreds of thousands.

My guess is that Budge is taking the legal route largely to save face and to avoid facing the wrath of 400,000 fans. If she is offered anything she’ll accept it so that she can say “It wasn’t my fault.” But I hope that the SPFL don’t go down that road and face her down. Hearts current situation is all down to her abysmal decision making and management.

[Del Boy]

Legal costs will be at least £30k for United, Raith and Cove. This is absolutely ridiculous. Cove Rangers having to pay £30k after walking their league because Hearts won’t accept a vote with an 80% majority. These 3 clubs shouldn’t be having to pay this money. The teams that won their leagues could, if hearts get their way, end up in a worse financial position than those who finished lower.

[highland hibbee]

Legal cases are rarely completely one-sided. Dig deep enough and you can usually find something as evidence to back up your argument.

Hearts are playing a very high stakes game though, and appear to have a pretty weak hand. Either Budge has nerves of steel, has no idea what she is doing, or is so desperate that she thinks this is the only option she has.

She’s already obliged three clubs to seek legal advice to defend their position. She is forcing the SPFL to spend time on this rather than get football up and running again.

If she wins, it will cost the other clubs money and cause a lot of bad blood. Hearts might feel vindicated but they will be detested for it.

If she loses... well, things might get a lot, lot worse for them.


You’re absolutely correct, very seldom are there cut and dried cases in the civil courts .
She could be playing a game of bluff, if she’s brave enough, once they see how much the legal action will cost many clubs could decide they have no stomach for a fight. This is the woman who allegedly found the saviour of Scottish Football who had a pile of millions to hand out. Who’s not to say she hasn’t found another. After all keep rubbing the magic lamp and the genies might just re-appear!!
I sincerely hope I’m wrong, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see her win as the already mentioned costs mount up and Club Owners capitulate. I really do hope I’m wrong. But they have fallen in many barrels of sharn and still end up smelling of poundstretcher roses.......
one things for sure m the only people to benefit will be the Lawyers....

[SteveHFC]

The SFA and SPFL need to call her bluff and go through with the case then take their SFA membership away and kick them out the league.

[hibeerealist]

Or maybe it is a fact that the board of the SPFL are indeed corrupt and Rangers had it right. Maybe we should have gone down the investigation/enquiry route.
Maybe Neil Doncaster has got into the ear of the equally corrupt press and got them to say that the clubs were looking to expel Hearts and Partick as a threat to them to try to stop this action. Maybe an investigation would have scuppered Doncasters impending role in UEFA.
Does anyone on here really honestly think that Hearts are stupid enough to throw millions at a legal challenge if they didn't think they had a case?
Even with the backing of Anderson that would never be a course of action that would recieve approval by the board or even the FOH. This tells me that there is, or they strongly believe,there is a case here. Whether the compensation package is as much as is being touted is a different matter.
Im my opinion it is wise for clubs like Hibs and Aberdeen (as their plans have been aired) to prepare for what could be coming.


The “no smoke without fire “ logic is rather naive and one that Annie hopes we will all subscribe to as she sets about stripping away the reputation of ND, the SPFL board and indeed Scottish football itself! She had left herself no other option but to go legal after using it as a threat when trying to get reconstruction accepted.

Her army of phannies massing behind her have done what she hoped they would do, forget the mess she got them into and become ultra defensive whilst sending her goodwill support. What a result given what she has done to the club and she may still get away with it, although I doubt it and the doors are closing which will end up far worse for them than simply relegation.

lastly, what would a board, such as the SPFL, stand to gain by being corrupt? Keep them in a job?

They are open to scrutiny at every turn and that accusation is absolute nonsense despite what the bastion of ethical behaviour (Sevco) would have us believe and tellingly the only “seconders” to this charade are the three clubs being relegated. Sevco have an axe to grind as they see Celtic having the upper hand (in their eyes when perhaps they should look closer to home when reviewing their lack of influence) and the other three - well that is obvious for all to see.

[007]

The “no smoke without fire “ logic is rather naive and one that Annie hopes we will all subscribe to as she sets about stripping away the reputation of ND, the SPFL board and indeed Scottish football itself! She had left herself no other option but to go legal after using it as a threat when trying to get reconstruction accepted.

Her army of phannies massing behind her have done what she hoped they would do, forget the mess she got them into and become ultra defensive whilst sending her goodwill support. What a result given what she has done to the club and she may still get away with it, although I doubt it and the doors are closing which will end up far worse for them than simply relegation.

lastly, what would a board, such as the SPFL, stand to gain by being corrupt? Keep them in a job?

They are open to scrutiny at every turn and that accusation is absolute nonsense despite what the bastion of ethical behaviour (Sevco) would have us believe and tellingly the only “seconders” to this charade are the three clubs being relegated. Sevco have an axe to grind as they see Celtic having the upper hand (in their eyes when perhaps they should look closer to home when reviewing their lack of influence) and the other three - well that is obvious for all to see.

Many pundits have been trying to paint the SPFL board as incompetent/corrupt, Tom English being the worst, with virtually nothing to base it on and as far as I can see it is because they have ulterior motives. Fortunately the court will base their decision on what evidence is put before them and not the opinions of Tom English and his ilk.

[poolman]

Just hearing something that the French courts, although they pronounced relegation illegal, can't impose reconstruction as it's a private company, maybe wrong tho 🤔

[FilipinoHibs]

Just hearing something that the French courts, although they pronounced relegation illegal, can't impose reconstruction as it's a private company, maybe wrong tho ��

They suspended relegation and asked the French League to look at the organisation of the top two leagues. The court upheld the decision of the league calling the season. The League has done that on reorganisation and the clubs have rejected increasing the top league to 22 because of TV contracts and asking players to play to many games. This is due to be ratified on Tuesday and the relegated clubs will take the League to court again.

Of course in Scotland the clubs called the league and rejected various reconstruction proposals including the last one which was crafted by the executive officials of the SPFL.

[mjhibby]

Legal cases are rarely completely one-sided. Dig deep enough and you can usually find something as evidence to back up your argument.

Hearts are playing a very high stakes game though, and appear to have a pretty weak hand. Either Budge has nerves of steel, has no idea what she is doing, or is so desperate that she thinks this is the only option she has.

She’s already obliged three clubs to seek legal advice to defend their position. She is forcing the SPFL to spend time on this rather than get football up and running again.

If she wins, it will cost the other clubs money and cause a lot of bad blood. Hearts might feel vindicated but they will be detested for it.

If she loses... well, things might get a lot, lot worse for them.

The odds are heavily stacked against them imho. They have pissed off some many folk now even the press saying it’s so unfair will cut no ice with clubs facing cutting players. I think this is desperation from budge as they never budgeted for relegation,more likely fourth or fifth so they are looking at around a 600 grand shortfall plus around £5-6 m in the championship. They probably have no choice but they must be so naive to not realise the consequences of their actions. It will only end badly. Actually them winning a large amount of compensation would be the worst outcome for them as it will leave them as pariahs in Scottish football. Oh dear,how sad, never mind.

[mjhibby]

You’re absolutely correct, very seldom are there cut and dried cases in the civil courts .
She could be playing a game of bluff, if she’s brave enough, once they see how much the legal action will cost many clubs could decide they have no stomach for a fight. This is the woman who allegedly found the saviour of Scottish Football who had a pile of millions to hand out. Who’s not to say she hasn’t found another. After all keep rubbing the magic lamp and the genies might just re-appear!!
I sincerely hope I’m wrong, but I wouldn’t be surprised to see her win as the already mentioned costs mount up and Club Owners capitulate. I really do hope I’m wrong. But they have fallen in many barrels of sharn and still end up smelling of poundstretcher roses.......
one things for sure m the only people to benefit will be the Lawyers....

I think Dave Cormack, Ron Gordon and Peter lawwell will in no way capitulate. I’ve a feeling if it gets too far lawwell with get celtics legal team on it and given billionaire dermot Desmond is the top man there arebudge will be the one to blink. They are toast and they know it.

[Sammy7nil]

The odds are heavily stacked against them imho. They have pissed off some many folk now even the press saying it’s so unfair will cut no ice with clubs facing cutting players. I think this is desperation from budge as they never budgeted for relegation,more likely fourth or fifth so they are looking at around a 600 grand shortfall plus around £5-6 m in the championship. They probably have no choice but they must be so naive to not realise the consequences of their actions. It will only end badly. Actually them winning a large amount of compensation would be the worst outcome for them as it will leave them as pariahs in Scottish football. Oh dear,how sad, never mind.

I genuinely think they would love that and wallow in it. The siege mentality would be massive for years and years to come.

[bawheid]

I genuinely think they would love that and wallow in it. The siege mentality would be massive for years and years to come.

If it happened they’d be kicked out the leagues IMO. It won’t happen.

[jacomo]

I think Dave Cormack, Ron Gordon and Peter lawwell will in no way capitulate. I’ve a feeling if it gets too far lawwell with get celtics legal team on it and given billionaire dermot Desmond is the top man there arebudge will be the one to blink. They are toast and they know it.


Celtc are yet to play their hand.

If Hearts look like they are threatening the return of league football - or impacting European ties - they will find some very powerful opponents against them.

Speaking of which though... would be nice if Dermot Desmond matched James Anderson’s donation, no? He can easily afford it.

[Since452]

My guess is that Budge is taking the legal route largely to save face and to avoid facing the wrath of 400,000 fans. If she is offered anything she’ll accept it so that she can say “It wasn’t my fault.” But I hope that the SPFL don’t go down that road and face her down. Hearts current situation is all down to her abysmal decision making and management.

That's exactly what she's doing. Budge has pandered to the fans regularly. Forcing Neilson out, appointing Stendel and now this legal persuit has all been fan driven and all been disastrous. Weak leadership.

[Eyrie]

The odds are heavily stacked against them imho. They have pissed off some many folk now even the press saying it’s so unfair will cut no ice with clubs facing cutting players. I think this is desperation from budge as they never budgeted for relegation,more likely fourth or fifth so they are looking at around a 600 grand shortfall plus around £5-6 m in the championship. They probably have no choice but they must be so naive to not realise the consequences of their actions. It will only end badly. Actually them winning a large amount of compensation would be the worst outcome for them as it will leave them as pariahs in Scottish football. Oh dear,how sad, never mind.

They'd have lost at least £5-6m of turnover simply because of coronavirus.

And the SPFL will be quick to point that out if this farce does reach court, which I'm hoping happens but suspect Budge will come to her senses instead.

[Future17]

Legal costs will be at least £30k for United, Raith and Cove. This is absolutely ridiculous. Cove Rangers having to pay £30k after walking their league because Hearts won’t accept a vote with an 80% majority. These 3 clubs shouldn’t be having to pay this money. The teams that won their leagues could, if hearts get their way, end up in a worse financial position than those who finished lower.

If they're only involved in the CoS action as interested parties, there's no way their legal fees should be anywhere near £30k.

Also, if Hearts are unsuccessful, it's likely they'd have to pay some portion of those clubs' expenses.

[Mikey]

That's exactly what she's doing. Budge has pandered to the fans regularly. Forcing Neilson out, appointing Stendel and now this legal persuit has all been fan driven and all been disastrous. Weak leadership.

Spot on. Can't wait for full fan ownership.

[Since452]

Spot on. Can't wait for full fan ownership.

That's the problem with fans calling the shots. They speak from their heart and not their head. We're all guilty of it.

[007]

Celtc are yet to play their hand.

If Hearts look like they are threatening the return of league football - or impacting European ties - they will find some very powerful opponents against them.

Speaking of which though... would be nice if Dermot Desmond matched James Anderson’s donation, no? He can easily afford it.

With any costs/compensation to come from the prize money Celtic would (probably) lose the most. Lawwell won't take that lying down.

[Peevemor]

That's the problem with fans calling the shots. They speak from their heart and not their head. We're all guilty of it.Which is why, regardless of the virus stuff and relegation the FOH money won't continue at the same level in the long term.

As soon as they're fan owned and lead, those who disagree (over anything) with those installed around the boardroom table, will stop their contributions.

[Dashing Bob S]

That's the problem with fans calling the shots. They speak from their heart and not their head. We're all guilty of it.

If they are also fann-ies it makes it all the worse. As 97% percent of Jambos are. *

* recent survey of kickback

[Bostonhibby]

If they are also fann-ies it makes it all the worse. As 97% percent of Jambos are. *

* recent survey of kickbackI'm guessing the other 3% is reserved for the likes of Kiwidug, lord George, allisbarry, Tom English etc....

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[Sammy7nil]

Victorian
Paid Member_10

37,834 posts
Posted 15 minutes ago
Has the media asked Dundee United if their own ratio of income : expenditure has any bearing on their supposedly precarious financial position?

:rofl: nah, that would be doing their job.

Meanwhile over on Kickback the lack of self awareness is rampant. See above.

They also want to crush , burn and destroy Scottish football and Neil Doncaster.

It is car crash i can't stop watching .

[hibeerealist]

Many pundits have been trying to paint the SPFL board as incompetent/corrupt, Tom English being the worst, with virtually nothing to base it on and as far as I can see it is because they have ulterior motives. Fortunately the court will base their decision on what evidence is put before and not the opinions of Tom English and his ilk.

I agree and trust the legal process to toss this in the bin where it belongs!

[Aldo]

Victorian
Paid Member_10

37,834 posts
Posted 15 minutes ago
Has the media asked Dundee United if their own ratio of income : expenditure has any bearing on their supposedly precarious financial position?

:rofl: nah, that would be doing their job.

Meanwhile over on Kickback the lack of self awareness is rampant. See above.

They also want to crush , burn and destroy Scottish football and Neil Doncaster.

It is car crash i can't stop watching .

Budge has fed and will continue to feed the fire and tbh this is what I expect of them, especially from that forum!

Self interested and whether they are stupid, unable to comprehend or just throwing their head in the sand (maybe all 3 and more) but can they not see what a complete and utter shambles their own club is.


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[Stuart93]

Victorian
Paid Member_10

37,834 posts
Posted 15 minutes ago
Has the media asked Dundee United if their own ratio of income : expenditure has any bearing on their supposedly precarious financial position?

:rofl: nah, that would be doing their job.

Meanwhile over on Kickback the lack of self awareness is rampant. See above.

They also want to crush , burn and destroy Scottish football and Neil Doncaster.

It is car crash i can't stop watching .

Ken it’s not really the point of the post BUT the posters spot on about Dundee Utds spending going under the radar. Surprised it’s not been under the media spotlight

[Sammy7nil]

Ken it’s not really the point of the post BUT the posters spot on about Dundee Utds spending going under the radar. Surprised it’s not been under the media spotlight

It would be a fair point if it was raised by Arbroath but Hearts have been overspending for 40 odd years.

[CentreLine]

Ken it’s not really the point of the post BUT the posters spot on about Dundee Utds spending going under the radar. Surprised it’s not been under the media spotlight

In the same way as hearts and the rangers spending?

[Col2]

Every single time the SPFL and majority of clubs have voted in opposite direction of what Hearts are crying about. Every single time. The media frenzy and the disgraceful BBC Scotland Sportsound has stoked this narrative that Hearts are so hard done by. Yesterday’s show with English, McCann and a sport lawyer who didn’t have a bloody club. No balance just a Hearts fanzine.

Yet as we have seen 100% of the time. The results goes against Hearts every time.

[A Hi-Bee]

I agree and trust the legal process to toss this in the bin where it belongs!

I was told/advised many years ago to never go to court on a point of principle, the jumbos have nae chance.
We should just kick them oot of football, send them right doon.

[Geo_1875]

What's the chances of the Court agreeing with Budge saying relegation is unfair and the SPFL saying the game's a bogey, reconstituting and inviting Hearts to reapply for a place in the Championship?

[Sammy7nil]

What's the chances of the Court agreeing with Budge saying relegation is unfair and the SPFL saying the game's a bogey, reconstituting and inviting Hearts to reapply for a place in the Championship?

No one knows after 8 weeks no one has a clue what it court may or may not decide.

[Waxy]

What's the chances of the Court agreeing with Budge saying relegation is unfair and the SPFL saying the game's a bogey, reconstituting and inviting Hearts to reapply for a place in the Championship?

Surely every case that goes to court goes there because something is unfair? There is usually specific reasons that cause the unfairness and thats the point put in front of the judge.
There is no specific point that the SPFL clubs or board have done wrong here under the circumstances.
The whole episode has been unfair on every club, not just hearts.
Hearts are down on sporting merit.

[Future17]

Every single time the SPFL and majority of clubs have voted in opposite direction of what Hearts are crying about. Every single time. The media frenzy and the disgraceful BBC Scotland Sportsound has stoked this narrative that Hearts are so hard done by. Yesterday’s show with English, McCann and a sport lawyer who didn’t have a bloody club. No balance just a Hearts fanzine.

Yet as we have seen 100% of the time. The results goes against Hearts every time.

Was the lawyer David Winnie? I read his comments and thought they sounded like nonsense, but I don't think I read where he made them. I was interested if they made more sense in the context of the conversation.

[hibeerealist]

Was the lawyer David Winnie? I read his comments and thought they sounded like nonsense, but I don't think I read where he made them. I was interested if they made more sense in the context of the conversation.

It was David Winnie

[Future17]

Surely every case that goes to court goes there because something is unfair? There is usually specific reasons that cause the unfairness and thats the point put in front of the judge.
There is no specific point that the SPFL clubs or board have done wrong here under the circumstances.
The whole episode has been unfair on every club, not just hearts.
Hearts are down on sporting merit.

It doesn't require something to be unfair. It just requires one party to perceive that to be the case. That's how some lawyers make their money!

[Heisenberg]

Seeing a few Hearts fans on twitter giving it “SPFL going to cave next week” and “expect reconstruction to be pushed through next week”. Can only assume they’ve completely disregarded everything SJ has had wrong so far and gone full on belief mode again.

[Sammy7nil]

Seeing a few Hearts fans on twitter giving it “SPFL going to cave next week” and “expect reconstruction to be pushed through next week”. Can only assume they’ve completely disregarded everything SJ has had wrong so far and gone full on belief mode again.

This why I started the later deleted thread where do Hearts and their fans get this confidence and arrogance in all things Hearts. I just don't understand where it comes from?

[Waxy]

Seeing a few Hearts fans on twitter giving it “SPFL going to cave next week” and “expect reconstruction to be pushed through next week”. Can only assume they’ve completely disregarded everything SJ has had wrong so far and gone full on belief mode again.The court they've gone to do not have the power to force reconstruction.Hearts have no case here.

[Heisenberg]

This why I started the later deleted thread where do Hearts and their fans get this confidence and arrogance in all things Hearts. I just don't understand where it comes from?

It’s crazy. If the SPFL were going to “cave” they would’ve done so long before now. This whole thing has been up there with the Rangers fans in 2012. Crazy stuff.

[tamig]

This why I started the later deleted thread where do Hearts and their fans get this confidence and arrogance in all things Hearts. I just don't understand where it comes from?

It doesn’t make any sense. Now that the SFA are involved the screws are being tightened on the maroon balloons. There is only one side caving in shortly - and it sure as hell isn’t the league.

[Onion]

That's the problem with fans calling the shots. They speak from their heart and not their head. We're all guilty of it.

Wonder if the fans would have run Hearts any worse than Budge ? Levein decision was bonkers on so many levels - fans would have got shot of that loser. But that's about the only thing that would be different. The fan owners would have tried all the things Budge has done, in fact they have been calling the shots for the last 10 weeks. Budge is so scared of antagonising the FOH and ST holders, she's just been a figure head for the fans - and look where it's got them.

They're in an almighty mess and they're either in denial or don't realise it yet. Glorious :thumbsup:

[Sas_The_Hibby]

That's the problem with fans calling the shots. They speak from their heart and not their head. We're all guilty of it.

Actually, quite a few of us mostly speak from another part of our anatomy! :greengrin

[BS44]

Seeing a few Hearts fans on twitter giving it “SPFL going to cave next week” and “expect reconstruction to be pushed through next week”. Can only assume they’ve completely disregarded everything SJ has had wrong so far and gone full on belief mode again.

That was going to happen last week

They must have got their weeks mixed up

[Sammy7nil]

I would love to ask The Budgie and other fans how can you possibly make this situation "fair" for all clubs? In a reasoned and fair conversation. I appreciate that is not possible as this is all about Hearts (Patrick where an after thought and no one gives a **** about Stranraer Kelty or Brora.

How can this be fair to any club who
could potentially have been promoted
dropped a league place
missed out on Europe
who stayed in budget and did not spend millions of other people's money trying to stay in league
could be forced to play in ****ty league for years to save three teams who were bottom on sporting merit

Why should Hearts Partick and Stranraer get to play in the same league totally without penalty whilst other teams that finish bottom of the league accept year on year.

[007]

This why I started the later deleted thread where do Hearts and their fans get this confidence and arrogance in all things Hearts. I just don't understand where it comes from?

I'd call it bravado and delusion rather than arrogance.

They thought they'd beat St Mirren to swap places with them - got that wrong.

They thought the Good Friday resolution would be voted down - got that wrong.

They think they've been expelled - got that wrong.

They thought the Rangers dossier would expose corruption within the SPFL board and Doncaster would be sacked - got that wrong.

They thought reconstruction version 1, 2, 3 etc would happen - got that wrong.

They though chucking money at clubs would get them reconstruction - got that wrong.

They thought the SPFL could and would force through reconstruction - got that wrong.

They think their court case will now expose corruption and they'll either be reinstated or they'll get £8m.....

[Col2]

Was the lawyer David Winnie? I read his comments and thought they sounded like nonsense, but I don't think I read where he made them. I was interested if they made more sense in the context of the conversation.

Yes it was him. He couldn’t answer any questions with any real authority. For example he went down the line of suggesting Hearts £8m might be understated if they stay in championship for more than one season. When it was pointed out that surely it was up to them to get out of that league and not therefore a credible loss of income for damages he then backed down. The usual mob all talked over him and he was indecisive. He sounded a bit lost if I am honest. The Sportsound due of English and McCann seemed to enjoy the potential drama of the legal side and were not interested in any balance.

Radio Clyde Superscoreboard now has more credibility than Sportsound and that is saying something given the nature of it is 80% phone in of Celtic and Rangers fans in the main.

[Kojock]

Wonder if the fans would have run Hearts any worse than Budge ? Levein decision was bonkers on so many levels - fans would have got shot of that loser. But that's about the only thing that would be different. The fan owners would have tried all the things Budge has done, in fact they have been calling the shots for the last 10 weeks. Budge is so scared of antagonising the FOH and ST holders, she's just been a figure head for the fans - and look where it's got them.

They're in an almighty mess and they're either in denial or don't realise it yet. Glorious :thumbsup:

I'm sure I read a statement from Budge saying that even after the handover she would remain in charge.

[Wakeyhibee]

I'm sure I read a statement from Budge saying that even after the handover she would remain in charge.

Saw that too. Is that until the Directors loan is paid back ?

[Kojock]

Saw that too. Is that until the Directors loan is paid back ?

This was from 2019 so things might have changed as she does have a habit of contradicting herself.

Budge is due to hand over her 75.1 per cent shareholding to the fan group in spring 2020 but will remain the ultimate authority at Tynecastle Park thereafter.

FoH want her tenure as CEO to continue beyond the change of ownership, which will place Hearts into the hands of supporters for the first time. The Foundation will hold the shares and two of their directors will continue representing the fans on the Hearts board. However, when it comes to major decisions like authorising player signings, academy investment or changing a manager, the final decision will rest with Budge.

[04Sauzee]

This was from 2019 so things might have changed as she does have a habit of contradicting herself.

Budge is due to hand over her 75.1 per cent shareholding to the fan group in spring 2020 but will remain the ultimate authority at Tynecastle Park thereafter.

FoH want her tenure as CEO to continue beyond the change of ownership, which will place Hearts into the hands of supporters for the first time. The Foundation will hold the shares and two of their directors will continue representing the fans on the Hearts board. However, when it comes to major decisions like authorising player signings, academy investment or changing a manager, the final decision will rest with Budge.

Some good news then

[CropleyWasGod]

This was from 2019 so things might have changed as she does have a habit of contradicting herself.

Budge is due to hand over her 75.1 per cent shareholding to the fan group in spring 2020 but will remain the ultimate authority at Tynecastle Park thereafter.

FoH want her tenure as CEO to continue beyond the change of ownership, which will place Hearts into the hands of supporters for the first time. The Foundation will hold the shares and two of their directors will continue representing the fans on the Hearts board. However, when it comes to major decisions like authorising player signings, academy investment or changing a manager, the final decision will rest with Budge.

It's a smart move. Her business acumen will be invaluable.

[Mikey]

It doesn’t make any sense. Now that the SFA are involved the screws are being tightened on the maroon balloons. There is only one side caving in shortly - and it sure as hell isn’t the league.

Rod Petrie v Anne Budge.

There's only ever going to be one winner there.

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

This was from 2019 so things might have changed as she does have a habit of contradicting herself.

Budge is due to hand over her 75.1 per cent shareholding to the fan group in spring 2020 but will remain the ultimate authority at Tynecastle Park thereafter.

FoH want her tenure as CEO to continue beyond the change of ownership, which will place Hearts into the hands of supporters for the first time. The Foundation will hold the shares and two of their directors will continue representing the fans on the Hearts board. However, when it comes to major decisions like authorising player signings, academy investment or changing a manager, the final decision will rest with Budge.

Like paying their Herriot Watt bill :cb

[Wakeyhibee]

This was from 2019 so things might have changed as she does have a habit of contradicting herself.

Budge is due to hand over her 75.1 per cent shareholding to the fan group in spring 2020 but will remain the ultimate authority at Tynecastle Park thereafter.

FoH want her tenure as CEO to continue beyond the change of ownership, which will place Hearts into the hands of supporters for the first time. The Foundation will hold the shares and two of their directors will continue representing the fans on the Hearts board. However, when it comes to major decisions like authorising player signings, academy investment or changing a manager, the final decision will rest with Budge.

I'd expect a transition period. But that sounds like it's a lot more and a reluctance to let go of power. Happy days

[mjhibby]

Also Dermot Desmond I believe is associated with the coolmore racing operation which is full of hugely wealthy guys who have never hesitated in going to court to protect their interests. Budge and the jambos really don’t have a clue who and what they could unleash if they continue down their current path. Everything they have done wreaks of a club in desperate straits and they could well be heading for administration if they lose this case. They were most likely heading that way anyway. Foh money is a fraction of the shortfall they are about to encounter. This court case is of course avoiding talking about them facing financial reality for once. Tick tock.

[hibbyfraelibby]

That was going to happen last week

They must have got their weeks mixed up

Has anything ever happened on time, on budget or on target as far as that mob are concerned?

[Billy Whizz]

Like paying their Herriot Watt bill :cb

Are you suggesting they haven’t?

[Alfred E Newman]

Like paying their Herriot Watt bill :cb

I thought they owned the training centre? :cb

[HappyAsHellas]

Ken it’s not really the point of the post BUT the posters spot on about Dundee Utds spending going under the radar. Surprised it’s not been under the media spotlight
Their American owner was interviewed earlier on in the season about their spending and he told them the investments were put in to get to the premier and they had a plan for future investment and returns, including selling on players. All before this happened though.

[sleeping giant]

Like paying their Herriot Watt bill :cb

No again surely ?

[JimBHibees]

It's a smart move. Her business acumen will be invaluable.

You forgot to put a smiling emoji at the end of your second sentence. :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

Like paying their Herriot Watt bill :cb

Surely not again. :rolleyes:

[cocteautwin]

Also Dermot Desmond I believe is associated with the coolmore racing operation which is full of hugely wealthy guys who have never hesitated in going to court to protect their interests. Budge and the jambos really don’t have a clue who and what they could unleash if they continue down their current path. Everything they have done wreaks of a club in desperate straits and they could well be heading for administration if they lose this case. They were most likely heading that way anyway. Foh money is a fraction of the shortfall they are about to encounter. This court case is of course avoiding talking about them facing financial reality for once. Tick tock.

With Hearts signing Robbie Neilson and Craig Gordon in the last 24 hours, my opinion is that James Anderson must have promised Budge a shed load of cash for the coming season so I'd be surprised if they were heading for Admin whatever happens in the legal case. It's going to be a hefty amount of cash needed from Anderson though. He must have put in around £5m in the season just finished and they'll need a further big injection for their Championship season. My guess is by June 2021 Anderson will have injected close to £20m in to HMFC.

[Paisley Hibby]

This was from 2019 so things might have changed as she does have a habit of contradicting herself.

Budge is due to hand over her 75.1 per cent shareholding to the fan group in spring 2020 but will remain the ultimate authority at Tynecastle Park thereafter.

FoH want her tenure as CEO to continue beyond the change of ownership, which will place Hearts into the hands of supporters for the first time. The Foundation will hold the shares and two of their directors will continue representing the fans on the Hearts board. However, when it comes to major decisions like authorising player signings, academy investment or changing a manager, the final decision will rest with Budge.

Oh that sounds like great news 😂

[Rumble de Thump]

The strange thing about Anderson is that there's been a lot of talk about him seeing his spending as simply helping communities. But pumping millions of pounds into Hearts is not benefitting communities. It's giving one club an extreme advantage over its competitors as it overspends on mismanaged construction projects and a bloated squad of expensive player and coach salaries.

[Paisley Hibby]

With Hearts signing Robbie Neilson and Craig Gordon in the last 24 hours, my opinion is that James Anderson must have promised Budge a shed load of cash for the coming season so I'd be surprised if they were heading for Admin whatever happens in the legal case. It's going to be a hefty amount of cash needed from Anderson though. He must have put in around £5m in the season just finished and they'll need a further big injection for their Championship season. My guess is by June 2021 Anderson will have injected close to £20m in to HMFC.

As long as Budge remains in control at Hearts he's going to need deep pockets bailing then out every time she makes another of her genius decisions. Are we absolutely sure she isn't a Hibs fan deeply embedded at Tynecastle? 😂

[cocteautwin]

The strange thing about Anderson is that there's been a lot of talk about him seeing his spending as simply helping communities. But pumping millions of pounds into Hearts is not benefitting communities. It's giving one club an extreme advantage over its competitors as it overspends on mismanaged construction projects and a bloated squad of expensive player and coach salaries.

Budge must have nudie pictures of Anderson. It’s mental.

[CropleyWasGod]

The strange thing about Anderson is that there's been a lot of talk about him seeing his spending as simply helping communities. But pumping millions of pounds into Hearts is not benefitting communities. It's giving one club an extreme advantage over its competitors as it overspends on mismanaged construction projects and a bloated squad of expensive player and coach salaries.

I'd suggest that it is helping the community.

He has helped ensure that there is a team to support for thousands of people. He has protected jobs, and helped businesses both in the local Gorgie and wider Edinburgh communities.

[Ronniekirk]

With Hearts signing Robbie Neilson and Craig Gordon in the last 24 hours, my opinion is that James Anderson must have promised Budge a shed load of cash for the coming season so I'd be surprised if they were heading for Admin whatever happens in the legal case. It's going to be a hefty amount of cash needed from Anderson though. He must have put in around £5m in the season just finished and they'll need a further big injection for their Championship season. My guess is by June 2021 Anderson will have injected close to £20m in to HMFC.

The guy is minted money is no problem
I also read in here that he isn’t the only.Benefactor they have ( no idea if true or not )
They know Clubs like us can’t sign players at present and it’s like they are rubbing it in
The whole issue of sporting integrity and Financial Fair Play is just talk
It’s clear it they get things right they then have an unfair advantage financially over other teams outwith The Old Firm





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[DaveF]

It’s clear it they get things right they then have an unfair advantage financially over other teams outwith The Old Firm

It's hardly 'unfair' if they have taken steps to secure external funding. I dont like it, but they have simply been better in this area than most other clubs.

We need to do the same. Which, in the current climate, is going to be nigh on impossible.

[greenpaper55]

Mr Tom Hart did the same for Hibs and gave us one of the best teams we ever had, would we be saying it was bad if he was doing it for us ?

[Keith_M]

Budge must have nudie pictures of Anderson. It’s mental.


Maybe she's giving him something in return.


You're never too old, you know...

[Ronniekirk]

I'd suggest that it is helping the community.

He has helped ensure that there is a team to support for thousands of people. He has protected jobs, and helped businesses both in the local Gorgie and wider Edinburgh communities.

A lot of the Hibs Community involvement is well published and often in the press praising the Club for Thier contribution to fir example Mental Health and links to NHS
I live in the west so don’t see reports of similar projects Hearts are running
Are they involved in stuff like this
A Football Community doesn’t always equate to Projects that help tackle issues In the community


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[mal]

I'd suggest that it is helping the community.

He has helped ensure that there is a team to support for thousands of people. He has protected jobs, and helped businesses both in the local Gorgie and wider Edinburgh communities.

That argument works if he was saving Hearts from going bust. I don't think it works when it's just enabling mismanagement and encouraging them to continue to go on spending beyond their actual means.

[Ozyhibby]

It's hardly 'unfair' if they have taken steps to secure external funding. I dont like it, but they have simply been better in this area than most other clubs.

We need to do the same. Which, in the current climate, is going to be nigh on impossible.

Will be a lot easier with someone like Ron Gordon in charge rather than Petrie.


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[CropleyWasGod]

A lot of the Hibs Community involvement is well published and often in the press praising the Club for Thier contribution to fir example Mental Health and links to NHS
I live in the west so don’t see reports of similar projects Hearts are running
Are they involved in stuff like this
A Football Community doesn’t always equate to Projects that help tackle issues In the community


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Big Hearts. It's very similar to ours.

[Keith_M]

Apparently, Anderson has had a thing for Ann Budge ever since she volunteered to entertain a stag do (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjyAunDv9_w) of Scottish Mortgage Investment Trust employees

(warning: may put you off your breakfast)

[hibbyfraelibby]

Maybe she's giving him something in return.


You're never too old, you know...

...and I'd just had my breakfast.

[CropleyWasGod]

That argument works if he was saving Hearts from going bust. I don't think it works when it's just enabling mismanagement and encouraging them to continue to go on spending beyond their actual means.

So he's saving them from themselves. Very community-minded.😁

[grunt]

Big Hearts. It's very similar to ours.This one?


BIG Hearts Community Trust - £589

[JohnMcM]

I wonder if the first words uttered each morning in Jambo households across the land are -
"Is Mr Anderson ok?"

[CropleyWasGod]

This one?

The very one.

I did say "similar" :greengrin

[greenpaper55]

Apparently, Anderson has had a thing for Ann Budge ever since she volunteered to entertain a stag do (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fjyAunDv9_w) of Scottish Mortgage Investment Trust employees

(warning: may put you off your breakfast)

OMG, the punters would be shouting get them ON !

[Bobo]

23680

The saggy faced old bag is just carrying on the Merrick tradition of spending other people's money to help inflate their self indulgent egos and perpetual attempts at trying to maintain the illusion of bigglyness emanating out of Gorgie.

Their mask hasn't half slipped these past few months, further than ever before, and the whole of Scottish football are fully aware of what a horrible little insignificant club they truly are.

[Ronniekirk]

It's hardly 'unfair' if they have taken steps to secure external funding. I dont like it, but they have simply been better in this area than most other clubs.

We need to do the same. Which, in the current climate, is going to be nigh on impossible.

There are not many multi millionaires that just want to give money to football teams though It’s not that easy unless they are wanting to buy the Club and so far no indication he wants to
In that regard it is an unusual set up I think


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[HibbiesandtheBaddies]

So they give it "It's no fair, relegation is going to cost us millions and we had to put our players on half wages..."

Next minute they are signing new players, poaching the Championship league winning coach, and possibly looking for a new DoF...

:faf:

[Waxy]

So they give it "It's no fair, relegation is going to cost us millions and we had to put our players on half wages..."

Next minute they are signing new players, poaching the Championship league winning coach, and possibly looking for a new DoF...

:faf:They don’t realise fairness works both ways.

[greenginger]

Are the SPFL due to respond to the Yam petition some time soon ?

[007 Mickey Weir]

Are the SPFL due to respond to the Yam petition some time soon ?

The SFA compliance officer has asked both clubs to explain why they are taking legal actions to a league matter. Also to give clarity on why they think it’s the right thing to do.

They will review and respond. Then I suppose SPFL will respond on the back of their decision.

They had 7 days to respond. So is that Friday?

[matty_f]

The SFA compliance officer has asked both clubs to explain why they are taking legal actions to a league matter. Also to give clarity on why they think it’s the right thing to do.

They will review and respond. Then I suppose SPFL will respond on the back of their decision.

They had 7 days to respond. So is that Friday?

I think it was Tuesday when Hearts and Partick lodged the petition, so would be tomorrow or Wednesday (depending on when the clock started).

[Henderson2Del]

I think it was Tuesday when Hearts and Partick lodged the petition, so would be tomorrow or Wednesday (depending on when the clock started).

Back at court tomorrow I believe

[greenpaper55]

Are the SPFL due to respond to the Yam petition some time soon ?

I heard tomorrow.

[Numptie]

SPFL's first argument will be that the matter should be dealt with by the SFA - they have won this argument before - so we will know soon whether it will be an SFA matter. They will then need to dissect each argument put to them in the court papers (as it may still be a court matter). Either way the judges will no doubt consider the evidence for a few days before either kicking it to the SFA or setting dates for a hearing.

[brog]

I really can't think that James Anderson is over happy being associated with Hearts taking legal action against the other 41 SPFL clubs. Effectively the money he's given to Hearts is being used to try & claim back money that he, Anderson, donated to the other clubs. That's nonsensical! With Neilson now installed as manager it wouldn't surprise me to see the action quietly dropped. In return Anderson promises to continue sponsoring Hearts in the Championship & we get all the positive spin about them seeking to emulate their glorious prior promotion season. It's strange times just now but you can always rely on Hearts to make it stranger still!

[Sammy7nil]

I really can't think that James Anderson is over happy being associated with Hearts taking legal action against the other 41 SPFL clubs. Effectively the money he's given to Hearts is being used to try & claim back money that he, Anderson, donated to the other clubs. That's nonsensical! With Neilson now installed as manager it wouldn't surprise me to see the action quietly dropped. In return Anderson promises to continue sponsoring Hearts in the Championship & we get all the positive spin about them seeking to emulate their glorious prior promotion season. It's strange times just now but you can always rely on Hearts to make it stranger still!

I honestly don't think he cares he has shown surprisingly poor judgement in throwing £10 million to Hearts with what appears no conditions as he thinks they are a good community club ! :confused:

Exactly what did the community get for that £10 million less than half an unfinished stand. He appears to be content to bankroll them along with FoH zombies for the next five years !

I wonder if he advises Baillie Gifford clients to put their bank details on their website begging for cash?

[Waxy]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53129677

[Jdawg]

SPFL's first argument will be that the matter should be dealt with by the SFA - they have won this argument before - so we will know soon whether it will be an SFA matter. They will then need to dissect each argument put to them in the court papers (as it may still be a court matter). Either way the judges will no doubt consider the evidence for a few days before either kicking it to the SFA or setting dates for a hearing.

Answers will be lodged within the 7 day period. If the SPFL thinks there’s no jurisdiction for the court of session to hear it then there will be a preliminary plea on the jurisdictional argument solely (or any additional legal arguments they advance). These do not require evidence. If this happens, a procedural roll hearing (debate) will be fixed and the case could be thrown out at that stage (with court expenses awarded).

[Since452]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53129677

I'm sure Rangers fans would agree null and void to be the best, and fairest outcome. If not they'll be screaming about a tainted Linfield title 😉

[theonlywayisup]

It seems to have all gone quiet. I assume because it's now a legal issue!

[jacomo]

So they give it "It's no fair, relegation is going to cost us millions and we had to put our players on half wages..."

Next minute they are signing new players, poaching the Championship league winning coach, and possibly looking for a new DoF...

:faf:


So Hearts, what’s your case?

1. It’s no fair
2. We are a Big Club who spend Bigly and need lots more money
3. That’s it

[Springbank]

So Hearts, what’s your case?

1. It’s no fair
2. We are a Big Club who spend Bigly and need lots more money
3. That’s it

Oh and it should have been taken to another court entirely (CAS)

[FilipinoHibs]

I honestly don't think he cares he has shown surprisingly poor judgement in throwing £10 million to Hearts with what appears no conditions as he thinks they are a good community club ! :confused:

Exactly what did the community get for that £10 million less than half an unfinished stand. He appears to be content to bankroll them along with FoH zombies for the next five years !

I wonder if he advises Baillie Gifford clients to put their bank details on their website begging for cash?

He has not to given money to each SPFL club. Instead given a lump sum SPFL Trust. Each SPFL Can apply for a £50,000 grant to use in a community project. Hardly, bailing out Scottish football. I do think this was a sweeter to get clubs to be more sympathetic to Hearts.

Very different to blindly ploughing £10 million into one club in a two club city to bail out a construction project gone wrong and pay players wages.

He is not investment genius either. He got is technology right but the companies he choose underperformed the main US Technology indices. You would have gotten a better return investing in a NADAQ 100 index fund and not pay his high management fees.

[SMAXXA]

He has not to given money to each SPFL club. Instead given a lump sum SPFL Trust. Each SPFL Can apply for a £50,000 grant to use in a community project. Hardly, bailing out Scottish football. I do think this was a sweeter to get clubs to be more sympathetic to Hearts.

Very different to blindly ploughing £10 million into one club in a two club city to bail out a construction project gone wrong and pay players wages.

He is not investment genius either. He got is technology right but the companies he choose underperformed the main US Technology indices. You would have gotten a better return investing in a NADAQ 100 index fund and not pay his high management fees.

It’s wrong it’s bit to use on a community project clubs can use it as they see fit but they have to demonstrate the community footprint they have as a club.

[Jim44]

Budge and Anderson concocted their bribe to look and sound like a generous gift to Scottish football clubs, without actually allowing the clubs to benefit directly in a football sense. No strings attached, my erchie. And as for the timing of it? Pathetic.

[FilipinoHibs]

It’s wrong it’s bit to use on a community project clubs can use it as they see fit but they have to demonstrate the community footprint they have as a club.

Thanks. Yes can't use for player or staff wages and should be used to deal with preparing for Covid-19. Clubs must have community footprint.

[ancient hibee]

He has not to given money to each SPFL club. Instead given a lump sum SPFL Trust. Each SPFL Can apply for a £50,000 grant to use in a community project. Hardly, bailing out Scottish football. I do think this was a sweeter to get clubs to be more sympathetic to Hearts.

Very different to blindly ploughing £10 million into one club in a two club city to bail out a construction project gone wrong and pay players wages.

He is not investment genius either. He got is technology right but the companies he choose underperformed the main US Technology indices. You would have gotten a better return investing in a NADAQ 100 index fund and not pay his high management fees.

Share price up a third this year.Not bad for an underperformer.

[FilipinoHibs]

Share price up a third this year.Not bad for an underperformer.

Not as good as the Nasdaq 100 index in pounds and you have to pay fees on his fund!

[roo62]

Not as good as the Nasdaq 100 index in pounds and you have to pay fees on his fund!

FH you clearly don't like these private school rugby playing types who could never be behind the massive investment in Hearts and Scottish football eh 😂

[FilipinoHibs]

FH you clearly don't like these private school rugby playing types who could never be behind the massive investment in Hearts and Scottish football eh 😂

It was highly unlikely that someone with his background would be the Hearts investor. I admitted I was wrong. Coming from Norwich, which is not a big rugby town helped. Plus the people of Norwich are lovely including those that work in the local fund management industry.

The investment in Hearts was big but the £2 million for clubs at £50,000 a club is small and looks like an attempt to curry favour for Hearts as Budge pointed to in the reconstruction document.

[roo62]

It was highly unlikely that someone with his background would be the Hearts investor. I admitted I was wrong. Coming from Norwich, which is not a big rugby town helped. Plus the people of Norwich are lovely including those that work in the local fund management industry.

The investment in Hearts was big but the £2 million for clubs at £50,000 a club is small and looks like an attempt to curry favour for Hearts as Budge pointed to in the reconstruction document.

👍

[greenginger]

It was highly unlikely that someone with his background would be the Hearts investor. I admitted I was wrong. Coming from Norwich, which is not a big rugby town helped. Plus the people of Norwich are lovely including those that work in the local fund management industry.

The investment in Hearts was big but the £2 million for clubs at £50,000 a club is small and looks like an attempt to curry favour for Hearts as Budge pointed to in the reconstruction document.


I wonder where Budge got her claws into Anderson ?

[roo62]

I wonder where Budge got her claws into Anderson ?

Think it was in Norwich.... canaries... Oops I'll get ma coat 😂

[ancient hibee]

T
Not as good as the Nasdaq 100 index in pounds and you have to pay fees on his fund!

You don’t pay fees as you would do if you were investing in a unit trust.Once you’ve bought the shares that’s it.As you will know the value of your shares then depend on the underlying value of its holdings.Anderson has been reducing its holdings in Apple and Google and piling into Tesla.Interesting times but he has been consistently ahead of the game.

[Orchard_Hibs]

Not as good as the Nasdaq 100 index in pounds and you have to pay fees on his fund!

The NAS may currently be outperforming his fund but he will be way ahead on his 5year + numbers. His funds are also actively managed, in times like these you will do much better with an active manager this is what the fee’s are for. JA has made a lot of money for a lot of people and knows what he’s doing regarding investment.

[FilipinoHibs]

I wonder where Budge got her claws into Anderson ?

She might be a big investor in one of his funds.