Jambos Legal Challenge

[Ryan91]

Kiwidoug Kiwidoug
Posted 14 hours ago
I know there's restrictions but can we get a dozen or do Jambos outside the court chanting here we go when our team arrives?


Here we go...to Alloa and Arbroath.to Inversneckie and Greenock, to Ayr and Dunfermline, to Kircaldy and Dumfries, to treas the road and the miles to Dundee

Man's a Grade A weirdo that's for sure.

[Dashing Bob S]

Judge must be thinking that all those years at law school and then studying for the bar exams was worth it when faced with a money for old rope scam like this.

[Coco Bryce]

23718

[JimBHibees]

it has started I am listening on dial in details :greengrin

Keep us updated any attempts on goal yet? :greengrin

[JimBHibees]

23718

That is brilliant. Saints have played a blinder this close season. :greengrin

[Andy74]

SPFL supports application to dismiss action.

Judge notes he may sleep on decision overnight, but he will see about that after the presentations.

[Sammy7nil]

Keep us updated any attempts on goal yet? :greengrin

I don't think we are allowed to provide live updates on line, I can say D Utd Raith and Cove are on the attack though :greengrin

[Peevemor]

I don't think we are allowed to provide live updates on line, I can say D Utd Raith and Cove are on the attack though :greengrin

Why? I thought Les said that they weren't named?

[Irish_Steve]

I don't think we are allowed to provide live updates on line, I can say D Utd Raith and Cove are on the attack though :greengrin

I didn`t think we were either - can post what journo`s tweet but can`t report what you hear if you have dialled in

[660]

Is anyone live tweeting this

[CropleyWasGod]

SPFL supports application to dismiss action.

Judge notes he may sleep on decision overnight, but he will see about that after the presentations.

SPFL in early doors with the reducer.

Judge points to gavel to show who's in charge.

[Coco Bryce]

Is anyone live tweeting this

I can't find any :confused::confused:

[BroxburnHibee]

Guys I'm not sure that posting live updates from the courtroom is legal so unless anyone can tell us its definitely ok we will ask you not to do it please.

Edit. a quick google says anyone listening in and sharing updates could be found in contempt so protect yourselves.

[Springbank]

SPFL in early doors with the reducer.

Judge points to gavel to show who's in charge.

Steve Fulton picks up a yellow for "being ugly"

[Tug Wilson]

Guys I'm not sure that posting live updates from the courtroom is legal so unless anyone can tell us its definitely ok we will ask you not to do it please.

Edit. a quick google says anyone listening in and sharing updates could be found in contempt so protect yourselves.

Will just have to go to JKB for updates then. They are no doubt above the law on this.

[AltheHibby]

Guys I'm not sure that posting live updates from the courtroom is legal so unless anyone can tell us its definitely ok we will ask you not to do it please.

Edit. a quick google says anyone listening in and sharing updates could be found in contempt so protect yourselves.

Maybe we need to take screenshots from over the road?:stirrer:

[JohnMcM]

:lips seal:lips seal

[Andy74]

I will wait until we are not in the course of the hearing.

[CropleyWasGod]

Steve Fulton picks up a yellow for "being ugly"

Wee Leslie Deans gets away with one there. It was a clear elbow, that left the respondent with a sore ankle.

[Cabbage East]

Last time I was listening to courtroom proceedings they were a lot more interesting that this :greengrin

[Mcpakeisgod]

Recommend listening in if possible

[HFC93]

I'm hearing that Budge stood up and screamed "I am the law!", and has been escorted out of the building.

[Bostonhibby]

Spin spin spin the wheel of justice.

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[Sammy7nil]

Last time I was listening to courtroom proceedings they were a lot more interesting that this :greengrin

Did you get a not guilty :greengrin :wink:

[CropleyWasGod]

TBF, the Kickback thread is quite whimsical too, but then that's always the way until the first dodgy decision......

[Aldo]

TBF, the Kickback thread is quite whimsical too, but then that's always the way until the first dodgy decision......

Indeed. I’m hoping when summing up the judge supports everything they say then goes

HOWEVER.....

Then does their knees!


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[CropleyWasGod]

Indeed. I’m hoping when summing up the judge supports everything they say then goes

HOWEVER.....

Then does their knees!


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Naismith is ahead of you. He's just hobbled out...

[Aldo]

Naismith is ahead of you. He's just hobbled out...

[emoji23]


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[hibsbollah]

I'm hearing that Budge stood up and screamed "I am the law!", and has been escorted out of the building.

You, sir, are in contempt.

[matty_f]

You, sir, are in contempt.

*Incontinent

[McSwanky]

Wee Leslie Deans gets away with one there. It was a clear elbow, that left the respondent with a sore ankle.

:top marks:faf:

[Bostonhibby]

Craig Thomsons just turned up in full FIFA kit and pointed enthusiastically to an imaginary spot to award them a penalty but the judge had to tell him they've not started yet

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[cocteautwin]

James Anderson is outside, dressed in a 1980s ski jacket waving a handful of cash shouting LOADSAMONEY

[Mikey]

Craig Thomsons just turned upon full FIFA kit and pointed enthusiastically to an imaginary spot to award them a penalty but the judge had to tell him they've not started yet

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Is he wearing his 2012 winners medal?

[lord bunberry]

Gary Locke is standing out side shouting PISH, his motives for this are as yet undetermined.

[SMAXXA]

Can you genuinely listen to this?

[Greenworld]

Can you genuinely listen to this?Yes

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[Greenworld]

Im listening now

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[SMAXXA]

Legally?

[bingo70]

Im listening now

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Any ideas roughly how long it’s going to last? Should I stop refreshing this page for a bit yet?

[matty_f]

Legally?

Yes, public can request dial in details.

(I didn't, by the way)

[grunt]

Can you genuinely listen to this?
P499/20 Pet: Heart of Midlothian FC &c. Due to the level of interest in this hearing, scheduled for 11.00 today the public access code (audio only) is being made available here: (UK Toll) Dial +44-20-7660-8149. Access code or meeting number: 137 992 1001 When prompted press #.

https://twitter.com/SCTSSupremeCrts/status/1278261354235920384

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Eb1L5MjXsAIEyYK?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[GonzoReturns]

Is it looking like extra-time and possibly a replay?

[RoYO!]

Is it looking like extra-time and possibly a replay?

Hopefully knocked out to Maltese minnows in the first qualifying round! :D

[greenginger]

Is it looking like extra-time and possibly a replay?

The legal meters running up a sizeable bill !

[macca70]

Guys I'm not sure that posting live updates from the courtroom is legal so unless anyone can tell us its definitely ok we will ask you not to do it please.

Edit. a quick google says anyone listening in and sharing updates could be found in contempt so protect yourselves.

Although not physically attending court, those dialling in are subject to the same rules as if they were present in Court. Anyone failing to obey or respect the authority of the Court may be subject to Contempt of Court proceedings. In particular, those accessing a hearing:

* must not record or store the proceedings
* must not broadcast the proceedings
* must not, during the course of a hearing, comment on the proceedings using live texted based communications (such as Twitter).

The Scottish Courts and Tribunals Service retain the copyright of live audio recordings of Court proceedings. Although you are welcome to listen to the proceedings, the re-use, capture, re-editing or redistribution of the material in any form is not permitted. You should be aware that any such use could attract liability for breach of copyright or defamation, in addition to the possibility of contempt of court proceedings.

Please follow the instructions below to dial-in to the hearing due to start at 11am.

(United Kingdom Toll) Dial +44-20-7660-8149.
Access code or meeting number: 137 992 1001
When prompted press #.

Once connected the line will remain silent until the hearing begins and then the sound will activate automatically. As participant arrangements require to be put in place, the hearing may not start immediately and your patience is appreciated.

[Brightside]

I will be amazed if this goes any further.

[Seveno]

I will be amazed if this goes any further.

Is this based on what you are listening to?

[The 90+2]

The SPFL Prem conf call will be some decent listening this afternoon can imagine.

[RoYO!]

The legal meters running up a sizeable bill !

A real money spinner..

[Brightside]

Is this based on what you are listening to?

Legally I cannot confirm nor deny. :greengrin

[FilipinoHibs]

For all the old punks:

https://youtu.be/yhcreVY_qLI

[Greenworld]

I will be amazed if this goes any further.Could go to extra time though its a slow start

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[Don Giovanni]

I'm hearing that Budge stood up and screamed "I am the law!", and has been escorted out of the building.

Budge Dredd?

[Hibby70]

Budge Dredd?

😂😂 Very good

[SMAXXA]

Who’s this speaking the now?

[hibbysam]

This boy can’t half waffle eh. I’m sure it all makes sense to someone. Sooner we get into a to and fro argument the better.

[Don Giovanni]

A real money spinner..

* money sapper

Which Jamboids will know all about having single-handedly won the Great War :rollyeyes:

[SMAXXA]

This boy can’t half waffle eh. I’m sure it all makes sense to someone. Sooner we get into a to and fro argument the better.

Is he a goodie or a baddie? Lol

[Greenworld]

Who’s this speaking the now?The guy representing dundee utd and co

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[SMAXXA]

The guy representing dundee utd and co

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Ahhh a goodie then 👍

[hibbysam]

Is he a goodie or a baddie? Lol

Goodie lol, most of it makes sense, but like all legal cases it goes off on so many tangents.

[SMAXXA]

The guy representing dundee utd and co

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Who’s all spoke so far and what’s still to come?

[H18 SFR]

I’m listening now, it’s really interesting.

[tamig]

😀

[Greenworld]

Who’s all spoke so far and what’s still to come?First speaker , hearts and spfl to follow

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[hibbyfraelibby]

Have they finished the warm up yet?

[Alfred E Newman]

This boy can’t half waffle eh. I’m sure it all makes sense to someone. Sooner we get into a to and fro argument the better.

It's been a long morning, we will adjourn for lunch and reconvene at 3pm. 😴

[Greenworld]

Have they finished the warm up yet?No head tennis just now [emoji6]

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[Callum7]

I’m listening now, it’s really interesting.

Is it free to listen?

[Sammy7nil]

I cant see the Sherriff / Judge making a decision on this today I think he will sleep on it

[Cabbage East]

Who’s all spoke so far and what’s still to come?

Nearing the 80th minute mark, a fairly one sided match so far. Can't see a way back for Hearts but stranger things have happened.

[matty_f]

It's been a long morning, we will adjourn for lunch and reconvene at 3pm. 😴

Decent lunch break, that.

[BroxburnHibee]

I tried listening but that was very dull.

[brog]

I believe Robbie & Budge are banking on a money spinning replay!!

[Cabbage East]

I tried listening but that was very dull.

The OJ trial it ain't :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

Is it free to listen?

Yes.

[JeMeSouviens]

The OJ trial it ain't :greengrin

Wait till Budgie gets chased round the bypass by the cops! :wink:

[greenginger]

L
Decent lunch break, that.

Taxi for his Lordship down to the New Club on Princes Street, lunch then , several large ports , back up to the courtroom and place the black cap on his head and ............:greengrin

[SMAXXA]

I believe Robbie & Budge are banking on a money spinning replay!!

They should know better to what happens in the replays

[Andy74]

The OJ trial it ain't :greengrin

It has taken a very long time to make a very small number of procedural points so far.

[Alfred E Newman]

Wait till Budgie gets chased round the bypass by the cops! :wink:

🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣

[Brightside]

One of them keeps coughing and "mmm"ing all the time. Terrible speaker and the last person i would want for me in court.

[JeMeSouviens]

You can tell this guy's on an hourly rate. :greengrin

[Greenworld]

One of them keeps coughing and "mmm"ing all the time. Terrible speaker and the last person i would want for me in court.Thats lord clark

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[FilipinoHibs]

One of them keeps coughing and "mmm"ing all the time. Terrible speaker and the last person i would want for me in court.

On the Jambos side?

[Andy74]

On the Jambos side?

It is the Judge.

[SMAXXA]

It is the Judge.

😂😂😂😂

[FilipinoHibs]

It is the Judge.

Wow. My experience of judges are they are clear speakers.

[Brightside]

It is the Judge.

I hope he doesnt have a long lunch!

[StevesFamau5]

Has everyone's favourite pish stained Lord arrived yet with a bottle of half drunk port and a curry stained maroon tie?



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[Coco Bryce]

Judge Dread :greengrin

[RoYO!]

So with all these statements taking place I assume that the judge agrees that this is the correct forum for these hearings? He's not going to deliberate and then come to the conclusion it has nothing to do with him?

And hertz are hoping that he comes back and says it was unlawful to relegate them?

[WhileTheChief..]

Really enjoying listening to this.

It's good to hear facts for a change, I've been reading Kickback too much recently!!

[matty_f]

So with all these statements taking place I assume that the judge agrees that this is the correct forum for these hearings? He's not going to deliberate and then come to the conclusion it has nothing to do with him?

And hertz are hoping that he comes back and says it was unlawful to relegate them?

I think he can still come back and say it's not for him.

[RoYO!]

So we know Budge Dredd is there, who else?

Perry (the) Mason?

[dchibs]

Decent lunch break, that.

Is budge offering chips, could be a match winner:greengrin

[lord bunberry]

Is budge offering chips, could be a match winner:greengrin
Chips and views of the castle.

[hibbyfraelibby]

So with all these statements taking place I assume that the judge agrees that this is the correct forum for these hearings? He's not going to deliberate and then come to the conclusion it has nothing to do with him?

And hertz are hoping that he comes back and says it was unlawful to relegate them?

He is listening to the arguements regarding jurisdiction. Its not a case of an instant call he has to wsit until he hears both sides arguements as to jurisdiction first.don't read anything into it yet. The balls not lefy the centre circle yet

[Hibs4185]

How do you listen? I read somewhere that it is the same code for everyone?

[Coco Bryce]

How do you listen? I read somewhere that it is the same code for everyone?

https://twitter.com/SCTSSupremeCrts/status/1278261354235920384

[Andy74]

He is listening to the arguements regarding jurisdiction. Its not a case of an instant call he has to wsit until he hears both sides arguements as to jurisdiction first.don't read anything into it yet. The balls not lefy the centre circle yet

Yep, this isn’t the merits of the actual case - this is purely whether the clubs should have taken this to arbitration at the SFA and not to the court.

[Waxy]

Yep, this isn’t the merits of the actual case - this is purely whether the clubs should have taken this to arbitration at the SFA and not to the court.

Surely Hearts will get a spanking if it goes to the SFA?

[Andy74]

Lunch until 2

[Kato]

Funnily enough , even after having changed the name on the Court papers from Hearts of Midlothian FC to Heart of Midlothian FC , that still isn’t their proper company name.

The Yam company name is Heart of Midlothian PLC , no mention of FC or football club.

Still , never mind , they’re famous so everyone knows who they are. :greengrin

Did the company name not become The Heart of Midlothian after their bankruptcy in 1905?

[Greenworld]

Lunch till 2pm but judge indicates this will likely go into thursday and maybe friday afternoons .


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[greenginger]

Did the company name not become The Heart of Midlothian after their bankruptcy in 1905?


It it was changed in 1997 when the Pieman decided Hearts should be a PLC ( that’s what all big clubs do )

Must have thought Heart of Midlothian FC PLC would be confusing for the Gorgie grunts so dropped the FC bit.

[Peevemor]

The judge will be away for lunch with Leslie Deans & Saughton Jambo to make sure he's doing things right.

[Clarence]

Budge wants the truth, but she can’t handle the truth.

[Kato]

It it was changed in 1997 when the Pieman decided Hearts should be a PLC ( that’s what all big clubs do )

Must have thought Heart of Midlothian FC PLC would be confusing for the Gorgie grunts so dropped the FC bit.

:aok:

[green with envy]

Is it free to listen?

It's pay per view. In this case listen.

[KeithTheHibby]

The judge will be away for lunch with Leslie Deans & Saughton Jambo to make sure he's doing things right.

If there is drink involved you can be sure lard ass George Foulkes will also be in attendance.

[JimBHibees]

If there is drink involved you can be sure lard ass George Foulkes will also be in attendance.

Only if its a free liquid lunch.

[brog]

Lunch until 2

Hope he remembers to come back!

[macca70]

1st 10 mins when they resume at 2pm will be summary and details of what action the SPFL wants taken so probably worth a listen for anyone interested and probably summarise everything from this morning in 10 minutes.

[Ronniekirk]

Lunch until 2

Who is he Lunching with Maybe Budge is bribing , I mean treating him lol


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[cabbageandribs1875]

Who is he Lunching with Maybe Budge is bribing , I mean treating him lol


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it's james anderson that does the bribes part

[Since452]

Lunch until 2

Kicking the arse out of lunch. 2pm? Jesus.

[Hibby Gav]

From BBC Website...summary so far...

The dispute brought to the Court of Session by Hearts and Partick Thistle should be heard by the Scottish FA, rather than a court of law, says the lawyer representing three SPFL clubs.
On the first morning of proceedings hosted by Lord Clark in Edinburgh, Garry Borland QC spoke for Dundee United, Raith Rovers and Cove Rangers, whose promotions Hearts and Thistle are attempting to have reversed.
The latter pair are challenging their relegations from the Premiership and Championship after the term was called.


Hearts & Thistle criticise misleading letter (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53205708)
Hearts & Thistle lodge £10m SPFL claim (https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/53080219)

Borland said the case should be dealt with by a Scottish FA arbitration process as the dispute was clearly a football one, given the aim is to prevent demotions.
He added this was his interpretation of the rules and Articles of Association of both the SPFL and the Scottish FA.
The case of Hearts and Thistle will be presented later on Wednesday, with proceedings potentially spilling over into a second day.
United, Raith and Cove were declared winners of the Championship, League One and League Two
The petition from Hearts and Thistle came after SPFL clubs failed to support the league's proposal for reconstruction, which would have kept those two and League One's bottom side Stranraer up.

[jacomo]

I don't think we are allowed to provide live updates on line, I can say D Utd Raith and Cove are on the attack though :greengrin


Back them 100% in their fight against unfairness.

[AltheHibby]

Without commenting on the case, what the last few minutes have definitely proven is that TV courtroom scenes are not realistic.

[Coco Bryce]

23719

[matty_f]

23719

:faf:

[CockneyRebel]

Without commenting on the case, what the last few minutes have definitely proven is that TV courtroom scenes are not realistic.


I agree. I was found guilty in my last 5 trials - I'm innocent I tell ya!

[CapitalGreen]

Without commenting on the case, what the last few minutes have definitely proven is that TV courtroom scenes are not realistic.

Got to laugh at all the Jambo who were looking forward to their day in court expecting some high powered drama, with the main players at the SPFL sitting in the dock 😂😂

[Bronson]

Without breaking any laws, can anyone who has tuned in give us an indication of their confidence this will be thrown out?

[18Craig75]

Who’s talking now? Is he trying to bore the judge in to submission??

[anewlove]

Gerry Moynihan QC. Senior counsel for the SPFL.

[04Sauzee]

Update

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/top-lawyer-alleges-hearts-partick-22284265.amp?__twitter_impression=true

[CropleyWasGod]

Who’s talking now? Is he trying to bore the judge in to submission??

Levein.

[nonshinyfinish]

Can they not get Leslie Deans in to liven things up?

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6Mbrg339UWbYGNfa/giphy.gif

[matty_f]

Can they not get Leslie Deans in to liven things up?

https://media.giphy.com/media/3o6Mbrg339UWbYGNfa/giphy.gif

:faf:

[Since452]

Update

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/top-lawyer-alleges-hearts-partick-22284265.amp?__twitter_impression=true

Pleasing

[18Craig75]

Gerry Moynihan QC. Senior counsel for the SPFL.

Shows my lack of experience in these matters and ‘lawyer speak’ I only realised he was a good guy in the last couple of minutes.

[Greenworld]

Without breaking any laws, can anyone who has tuned in give us an indication of their confidence this will be thrown out?Difficult to say , hearts legal eagles are next ....sounds positive arguments so far to have the this heard by Arbitration and not by the court .
Looking forward to the Hearts side of things


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[Tug Wilson]

Update

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/top-lawyer-alleges-hearts-partick-22284265.amp?__twitter_impression=true

I don't understand. I thought only Hearts had the top lawyers!

Having sat in court a couple of times to take notes, I can tell you that it is extremely boring.

[Ardenttwo]

If there is drink involved you can be sure lard ass George Foulkes will also be in attendance.


Hope he comes back to court with the front of his breeks stained Now that will be embarrassing if they give him a towel to sit on Yep old pishy breeks has done it again

[hibsbollah]

I don't understand. I thought only Hearts had the top lawyers!

Having sat in court a couple of times to take notes, I can tell you that it is extremely boring.

Hearts have lawyers who have 'seen hings and gone places'.

[Peanut Shaz]

Shows my lack of experience in these matters and ‘lawyer speak’ I only realised he was a good guy in the last couple of minutes.

Snap. Thought it was just me being stupid. Lol

[LancsHibs]

Having sat in court a couple of times to take notes, I can tell you that it is extremely boring.

Yep, hours spent arguing legal points before any actual evidence discussed 😴

[Alan62]

Our family legal eagle feels the Dundee Utd approach is weak and that the dispute is about company law process rather than the SFA's arbitration process. If he's right, then the case is within the jurisdiction of the court.

[Brightside]

Our family legal eagle feels the Dundee Utd approach is weak and that the dispute is about company law process rather than the SFA's arbitration process. If he's right, then the case is within the jurisdiction of the court.

The point is that Hearts at no point went to CAS. Thats what they should have done. Thats a clear fact. The judge may have a view that its too late for CAS, but again that would be Hearts fault.

[Andy74]

Our family legal eagle feels the Dundee Utd approach is weak and that the dispute is about company law process rather than the SFA's arbitration process. If he's right, then the case is within the jurisdiction of the court.

That’s wrong.

The detail is about company law, of course, however, being a member of SPFL and SFA there is a way set out for disputes on the rules to be dealt with and it is not through the court.

[mim]

Our family legal eagle feels the Dundee Utd approach is weak and that the dispute is about company law process rather than the SFA's arbitration process. If he's right, then the case is within the jurisdiction of the court.

I beg to differ :wink:

[hibees 7062]

Hearts have lawyers who have 'seen hings and gone places'.

Gone hings and seen places

[Andy74]

Moynihan was much clearer.

[WhileTheChief..]

Hearts lawyers starting their go now.

[Clarence]

Is this boy Cathro in disguise?

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Hearts lawyers starting their go now.

Genuinely Interested to hear what "legal" arguments they actually have

Not just the Kickback PoV

[Andy74]

Hearts lawyers starting their go now.

Not fair basically so far.

[CapitalGreen]

Hearts guys needs to upgrade his wifi, keeps lagging and sounds like he’s under water.

[Irish_Steve]

Ha ha - be wonderful if the case was thrown out cos the Judge couldn't hear him lol

[Springbank]

Hearts guys needs to upgrade his wifi, keeps lagging and sounds like he’s under water.

Perhaps a metaphor...

[Alan62]

That’s wrong.

The detail is about company law, of course, however, being a member of SPFL and SFA there is a way set out for disputes on the rules to be dealt with and it is not through the court.

I think the notion is that their case is built around the procedural failings of the vote rather than the application of a membership organisation's internal rules. If that's right, then it's a company law matter not an arbitration matter.

The law's fun, eh?

[SMAXXA]

I’d be very surprised if this goes any other way than arbitration on what I’ve heard so far, unless the baddie can change my mind and pull a rabbit out the hat.

[Brightside]

I think the notion is that their case is built around the procedural failings of the vote rather than the application of a membership organisation's internal rules. If that's right, then it's a company law matter not an arbitration matter.

The law's fun, eh?

Even then....the should have went to CAS first.

[Caversham Green]

Grumbles over on Kickedoot that Dundee United shouldn't be involved -"dirty tricks by the SPFL" etc.

They're there because your lot named them as respondents ya dozy ********.

[Alan62]

Even then....the should have went to CAS first.

Maybes aye, maybes naw. His lordship will decide. :wink:

[Andy74]

I actually think the court would be a better way to go - the actual procedural facts are more easily knocked down than all this nonsense!

Also important to note that it wouldn’t be to the SFA - it would be to an arbitration panel which would be made up of retired judges, sheriffs etc.

[JeMeSouviens]

I think the notion is that their case is built around the procedural failings of the vote rather than the application of a membership organisation's internal rules. If that's right, then it's a company law matter not an arbitration matter.

The law's fun, eh?

The one where Dundee's vote was "lost" and resubmitted?

Thing about that is, I don't think the resolution they voted on said what was to happen if it failed, did it?

So even if the judge ordered it set aside, there would be nothing to stop the SPFL clubs voting on a new resolution with practically the same purpose, would there?

[JeMeSouviens]

Even then....the should have went to CAS first.

I think it's supposed to go to SFA as appellant body for the SPFL, then CAS when that appeal is thrown out. :wink:

[Alan62]

The one where Dundee's vote was "lost" and resubmitted?

Thing about that is, I don't think the resolution they voted on said what was to happen if it failed, did it?

So even if the judge ordered it set aside, there would be nothing to stop the SPFL clubs voting on a new resolution with practically the same purpose, would there?

Yes to all your questions. For a full explanation, you'll have to sit with our Eagle and listen to a couple of hours of unintelligible legalspeak.

[JohnMcM]

What time do they have afternoon tea-break? After all most of those there are paid by the hour :agree:

[Andy74]

The one where Dundee's vote was "lost" and resubmitted?

Thing about that is, I don't think the resolution they voted on said what was to happen if it failed, did it?

So even if the judge ordered it set aside, there would be nothing to stop the SPFL clubs voting on a new resolution with practically the same purpose, would there?

Hearts aren’t asking for it to be set aside. They are asking for it to stand in other aspects other than for relegation or promotion.

It is a pity there is a drawn out process here when the stupidity of what they are asking for is obvious.

[Wakeyhibee]

I'm hoping the Judge rules that arbitration was the first port if call. Understand they're challenging on company law but does that not mean it still should of gone there first? Or is this open to interpretation?

[BroxburnHibee]

I think they want the court to decide because the arbitration process would take too long.

[greenginger]

Yes to all your questions. For a full explanation, you'll have to sit with our Eagle and listen to a couple of hours of unintelligible legalspeak.

Does your legal eagle accept that it was in order for no vote to be disregarded and a yes vote accepted any time within 28 days. ?

[greenginger]

I think they want the court to decide because the arbitration process would take too long.

Too long ! It’s been about 3 months since the vote

[Alan62]

Does your legal eagle accept that it was in order for no vote to be disregarded and a yes vote accepted any time within 28 days. ?

I will ask.

[BroxburnHibee]

Too long ! It’s been about 3 months since the vote

Yes but they weren't interested in arbitration or court proceedings while the reconstruction was still on the table.

[Andy74]

On to 2 to 4 tomorrow afternoon.

[Caversham Green]

The one where Dundee's vote was "lost" and resubmitted?

Thing about that is, I don't think the resolution they voted on said what was to happen if it failed, did it?

So even if the judge ordered it set aside, there would be nothing to stop the SPFL clubs voting on a new resolution with practically the same purpose, would there?

Surely if the vote was found to be faulty the obvious remedy is for the CoS to order it to be retaken.

[Ardenttwo]

If there is drink involved you can be sure lard ass George Foulkes will also be in attendance.


Hope he comes back to court with the front of his breeks stained Now that will be embarrassing if they give him a towel to sit on Yep old pishy breeks has done it again

[BroxburnHibee]

I've not looked at the petitions. What is the petition on recovering documents about?

[JeMeSouviens]

Surely if the vote was found to be faulty the obvious remedy is for the CoS to order it to be retaken.

Exactly :agree:

[Andymac85]

Too long ! It’s been about 3 months since the vote

The SPFL are happy that any arbitration could be concluded prior to the start of the season.

[JeMeSouviens]

Hearts aren’t asking for it to be set aside. They are asking for it to stand in other aspects other than for relegation or promotion.

It is a pity there is a drawn out process here when the stupidity of what they are asking for is obvious.

That's madness.

"We disagree with the process by which a vote was taken but we want to allow some of it to stand".

:confused:

[Ronniekirk]

Hearts guys needs to upgrade his wifi, keeps lagging and sounds like he’s under water.

Out his depth and drowning


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Greenworld]

I've no idea about how good the technical legal arguments from Spfl / dun united side , sounded reasonable.

The only small difference i noticed is the Hearts legal guy talked a lot and was not asked as much by lord C.
Still looks like we might conclude the submissions tomorrow so hopefully have some ruling by Friday if not tomorrow.

If it goes to Arbitration does that end any claim for compensation which has not been mentioned?


Sent from my SM-G975U1 using Tapatalk

[Irish_Steve]

A wee bit of squabbling happening on Brokeback. Pleasing lol

[Dashing Bob S]

How many times can a team get relegated...

[Stuart93]

Seen someone on twitter claiming the judge said the court will hear the case, is that right?

[EI255]

Grumbles over on Kickedoot that Dundee United shouldn't be involved -"dirty tricks by the SPFL" etc.

They're there because your lot named them as respondents ya dozy ********.You couldn't make it up. What a bunch of thick xxxxx

Sent from my LG-H870 using Tapatalk

[Numptie]

I think that our case is strong and should win the day i.e. off to the SFA with you. But Lord Clark might feel that it's too late for the SFA to organise an arbitration panel, so will take the case to proof.

[RyeSloan]

I think that our case is strong and should win the day i.e. off to the SFA with you. But Lord Clark might feel that it's too late for the SFA to organise an arbitration panel, so will take the case to proof.

Would that be any quicker though?

[007]

Link below with phone no. and access code for tomorrow.

https://www.scotcourts.gov.uk/coming-to-court/public-access-to-a-virtual-hearing

[scoopyboy]

On to 2 to 4 tomorrow afternoon.

Will you manage to give us a summary later on Andy?

[Edinburgh Green]

Will you manage to give us a summary later on Andy?

Here's a quick summary from someone on kickback.

Gary Borland QC – 3 clubs (Dundee Utd/Cove/Raith – respondents)



3 clubs were legally promoted and the court should not allow these proceedings to proceed.

Respondents align themselves with SPFL.

Formally apply for a dismissal or a sist.

Arguing that for SPFL rules clubs are CLUBS not companies

Directing to article 196 – CLUBS agree to abide by the rules.

Rules – membership of league = agreement of CLUBS to abide by articles. So each club must comply with articles and rules. Including resolution of disputes with members and arbitration. Arguing that it is a football dispute.

Reference to previous St Johnstone case 1965 by judge, Borland says that it is not appropriate to this as superseded by subsequent arbitration act 2010.

CLUBS contractually compelled to oblige with SPFL rules and SFA articles.

CLUBS can only take a case to court with the permission of the SFA Board.

Hearts argue this is not a FOOTBALL dispute and that arbitration is barred due to unfair prejudice.

Judge questions whether respondents could have avoided prejudicing themselves.

Refers to test applied in English Case of Patel and Patel re English Arbitration act 1996… Lord Justice Cotton.

Davidson’s Book on arbitration reference to Eagle Star case arguing that respondents haven’t prejudiced themselves.

Lord Clark identifies the key timing issues. Borland claims arbitration can happen in time.

Borland blames Hearts/Partick for the time delays. Lord Clark mentions reconstruction.

Example given of case involving Fulham FC.

Borland claims that cases of unfair prejudice are capable of being arbitrated.

Petitioners argue that this is not a footballing dispute

Borland says this is wrong:

1. Any dispute arising out of association football

2. Dispute is between members of the SFA.

3. SPFL are obviously an associated person re article 99.7. Judge sceptical about the status of the SPFL.

4. The argument clearly relates to association football. The argument of the petitioners is fanciful.

Borland directs Lord Clark to the prayer in Hearts petition… promotion and relegation are the meat and drink of association football.

5. The only basis that Hearts can argue this isn’t a footballing dispute is on the basis

6. Reference made to the Fulham FC Case

Refers back to Arbitration Act 2010, finding principles, rights of parties to agree arbitration.Any no court provision should be enforced.

Refers back again to the St Johnstone case being superseded by Arbitration Act 2010. Says that Hearts Lawyers are incorrect in law. Claims that Hearts have misread the Lord Kilbrandon Case.



Lunch



The Hearts petition will seek recovery of documents.



Clarifying what arbitration was in place in 1965 in St Johnstone v SFA case.

Article 99 – reemphasising what is meant by football dispute and what falls within COS jurisdiction.

Borland argues that there is no public policy argument to this case.

The court should not allow these proceedings to continue before it and should therefore the respondents first plea in law, as they are contractually barred as per article 99.

Alternatively, sist these proceedings in order to allow an arbitration to take place.

Gerry Moynihan QC on behalf of SPFL



Adopts and defends Borland’s arguments.

Argues for a sist rather than dismissal.

Refers to extensive authority in England to nominal defenders. Arguing that SPFL role is a passive one.

These proceeding relate to matters of importance to the footballing community as a whole.

Argues that the vote was back on 15 April 2020 and if invalid was invalid on that day, a period of 9 weeks have elapsed. Therefore Hearts/Partick to blame for the timescale at play.

Argues that arbitration would be a speedy process… cutting through the legal noise.

Arbitration Scotland Act – statutory duty to proceed without undue delay, in a fair and impartial way. This is a mandatory rule. The panel consists of senators and sheriffs.

Confusion over which arbitration rules are being applied, with regard to what is being disapplied in article 99.

Lord Clark – did the SPFL help facilitate reconstruction? SPFL – Yes, they did

Moynihan argues that it was Hearts choice not to take legal action on 16 April 2020. Examples of precedent in public interest of cases going to arbitration where appropriate.

Moves onto issue of whether the SPFL have been prejudicial in responding to Hearts claims. The SPFL concede that the Dundee vote was received. Argues that it would have been in the public interest to place a motion for a sist with no legal argument. Gives example of Capital Trust Investments 2002.

Refers to petitioners 2nd request for inventory of productions… lodged yesterday. Letter dated 24 June from Shepherd Wedderburn to Gilson Gray – answer from SPFL to Hearts petition questions. The SPFL says proceedings must be suspended as per articles and that arbitration was the preferred route. Therefore no substance in any bar as per article 10.

Football disputes are most expeditiously dealt with by the football authorities.

Moynihan argues that petitioners allege unfairness which is a paradigm of football.

He refers back to the Judicial Panel protocol, rule 78 and that Hearts raising this action is a disciplinary matter… with a potential fine of £1m and or suspension/expulsion.

The SPFL is actively participating because of the serious consequences for its business and feels that a specialist tribunal/arbitration is where this should be heard.



Clarification from Lord Clark on 10.1.d1 – does precedent alter the meaning of Scottish legislation based as English case law?



How quickly can a tribunal be convened? List of potential tribunal members already offered across both sides.







David Thomson QC for Hearts/Partick



Opposes both a sist and dismissal

Accepts that litigation should be a last resort and this is a prime example of this.

As soon as the reconstruction proposals failed, Hearts took legal action forthwith

No one has checked the availability of the arbitration panel. The Court of Session is available now with indicative dates provided.

Reference made to 2004 case and proceeding were dealt with by the court and not sent to arbitration.

Article 75 – suggestion that David Thomson is wrong in comparison beyond former article 75 and new article 99. Both refer to punishment in the case of taking the SFA/SPFL to court.

Argues that article 99 attempts to make it unlawful to take legal action.



Lord Clark – article 99.1 makes reference to an adjudication process. David Thomson argues that 99.15 stands alone.



Thomson argues that the Fulham FC decision was wrong.



Case to be continued at 2pm tomorrow

[NC1875]

Have a horrible feeling theyll come out of all this smelling of roses as usual. Utter shower of *****

[Since452]

Have a horrible feeling theyll come out of all this smelling of roses as usual. Utter shower of *****

More chance of me being seduced by Maya Jama

[04Sauzee]

Have a horrible feeling theyll come out of all this smelling of roses as usual. Utter shower of *****

They will come out of this as a championship club

[Onion]

That all looks horrible for Hearts. They've failed to prove prejudice, delayed proceedings and have not followed proper process. Instead they've tried to weasel their way back into the top league through threat, bribery and coercion. Failing that, they throw their toys out of the pram and go squealing to court about big boys being unfair.

This will get tossed out and Hearts will be severely dealt with by the SFA.

[Andy74]

That all looks horrible for Hearts. They've failed to prove prejudice, delayed proceedings and have not followed proper process. Instead they've tried to weasel their way back into the top league through threat, bribery and coercion. Failing that, they throw their toys out of the pram and go squealing to court about big boys being unfair.

This will get tossed out and Hearts will be severely dealt with by the SFA.

To be fair the judge isn’t giving much away at this point with his comments or questions. He appeared satisfied enough that trying to arrange reconstruction was a valid enough reason to delay the start of court action.

Arbitration isn’t my thing and it was getting a bit bogged down in the detail of previous case law on whether the Articles could be relied on to force arbitration rather than court.

I was only half listening when I think the SPFL counsel suggested Hearts could be disciplined and fined £1m. He added that it would also be game over for their membership.

It is semi interesting but probably less clear cut than the actual case which I’m certain they will lose. They might well be allowed to take it there.

It is a panel it would be referred to. Might well be better going to the expertise of the court.

[AltheHibby]

"I was only half listening when I think the SPFL counsel suggested Hearts could be disciplined and fined £1m. He added that it would also be game over for their membership"

He was talking about the absolute worst case that could occur.

[Tambo]

Barry Anderson....

Never thought I'd cover a live court case from my own living room. I would have tweeted live updates and comments for everybody who asked but I don't fancy the contempt of court charge. Apologies, folks.

[greenpaper55]

Barry Anderson....

Never thought I'd cover a live court case from my own living room. I would have tweeted live updates and comments for everybody who asked but I don't fancy the contempt of court charge. Apologies, folks.

Please do Barry , we won't mind !

[Springbank]

That all looks horrible for Hearts. They've failed to prove prejudice, delayed proceedings and have not followed proper process. Instead they've tried to weasel their way back into the top league through threat, bribery and coercion. Failing that, they throw their toys out of the pram and go squealing to court about big boys being unfair.

This will get tossed out and Hearts will be severely dealt with by the SFA.

Nice that the clubs QC is Borland

Darts, Television & Legals

[GlesgaeHibby]

Nice that the clubs QC is Borland

Darts, Television & Legals

Superb.

That shop is like a time warp.

[Iggy Pope]

Nice that the clubs QC is Borland

Darts, Television & Legals

:greengrin

[Waxy]

Have a horrible feeling theyll come out of all this smelling of roses as usual. Utter shower of *****I doubt it.I'm not an expert but the court should boot this back to the SFA otherwise it would open the floodgates for every team that lost out on something this season.

[The 90+2]

Have a horrible feeling theyll come out of all this smelling of roses as usual. Utter shower of *****

Aye me too.

[The 90+2]

I doubt it.I'm not an expert but the court should boot this back to the SFA otherwise it would open the floodgates for every team that lost out on something this season.

It’s hearts. They always escape tough punishment.

[Waxy]

It’s hearts. They always escape tough punishment.Take out the word tough and i agree with you.This time they'll have to swallow the medicine though.

[Biggie]

Have a horrible feeling theyll come out of all this smelling of roses as usual. Utter shower of *****
Stay strong mon ami, stay strong

[bingo70]

It’s hearts. They always escape tough punishment.

Apart from when they got a points deduction that lead to their relegation?

What other times have they escaped punishments?

[green with envy]

Have a horrible feeling theyll come out of all this smelling of roses as usual. Utter shower of *****

Here we go again.

[Bostonhibby]

Please do Barry , we won't mind !He could always make something up and call it reporting?

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Andy74]

I doubt it.I'm not an expert but the court should boot this back to the SFA otherwise it would open the floodgates for every team that lost out on something this season.

It won’t be the SFA though, it would be a panel of 3 ex judges and sheriffs.

[Sammy7nil]

I will start off with the usual I am not a Lawyer :greengrin

I listened two the first two hours and I thought the as questions the Judge asked he seemed to think it was reasonable for Hearts to have delayed waiting on reconstruction talk. Due to limited time with season due to start the court would deal with this.

I am not a Lawyer :greengrin

[proud_and_green]

That’s wrong.

The detail is about company law, of course, however, being a member of SPFL and SFA there is a way set out for disputes on the rules to be dealt with and it is not through the court.

I can't help but feel that the jurisdiction is a side show and the important part is the detail of the complaint. So regardless of which way jurisdiction goes the main battle is the detail of the petition.

Also, is it not the case that contracts and constitutions etc may well have adjudication clauses but that everyone has the right to take their case to the supreme court including by bypassing the adjudication process? This happens particularly in cases where one party feels that they will not be given a fair hearing through the adjudication system. Most adjudication clauses escalate ultimately to the supreme court potentially. So i guess my questions is: is the SFA adjudication process legally mandated?

Incidentally, before anyone calls me for a jambo; i'm not, i am merely playing Devil's Advocate.

[linlithgowhibbie]

Apart from when they got a points deduction that lead to their relegation?

What other times have they escaped punishments?

Only being penalised 2 points for fielding ineligible player in league cup match. Not escaping punishment but certainly escaping proper punishment!:thumbsup:

[murray26]

There’s only 3 guarantees in life death taxes and Hearts coming out of any **** smelling of roses..

[linlithgowhibbie]

"I was only half listening when I think the SPFL counsel suggested Hearts could be disciplined and fined £1m. He added that it would also be game over for their membership"

He was talking about the absolute worst case that could occur.

I would say he was talking about the absolute BEST case that could occur.:thumbsup:

[Kato]

Superb.

That shop is like a time warp.

During which time period were Darts and TV shops a thing?

[Rumble de Thump]

Only being penalised 2 points for fielding ineligible player in league cup match. Not escaping punishment but certainly escaping proper punishment!:thumbsup:

I don't think they were punished for lying about being solvent at another club's expense. Didn't they also get a transfer ban that kicked in after the transfer window closed?

[CockneyRebel]

Apart from when they got a points deduction that lead to their relegation?

What other times have they escaped punishments?




The season before their relegation they escaped the 15 point penalty for going into administration by lying to the SPFL/SFA about having enough funds to see out the season (they were asked this because of the number of times they had paid players wages late) then as soon as the season ended they went into administration. The books should have been audited to show they were bleeding money week on week but no action was taken resulting in Dundee being relegated in their place (the deduction would have sent the diet huns down). They obviously did this knowing a buyer would be easier to find for a premier league side than a championship one.

[WhileTheChief..]

"I was only half listening when I think the SPFL counsel suggested Hearts could be disciplined and fined £1m. He added that it would also be game over for their membership"

He was talking about the absolute worst case that could occur.

I don’t think he was talking about Hearts here.

This was about why the 3 respondents were doing a joint defence or whatever you call it with the SPFL and not on their own. Their lawyer was arguing that it would break the rules if they did so as it would be going to court against other members and that they could ultimately be kicked out the game.

[davhibby]

I’d be interested to see what happens in terms of the SFA possible sanctions being brought in to play if hearts and partick were to try and stop the league starting in August, think there would be some very unhappy clubs

[Jdawg]

If hearts and Partick want to play hard ball then the other 40 clubs should insist on punishing them. I mean really insist on it.

Throwing toys out the pram when they were pish all season.

[jacomo]

If hearts and Partick want to play hard ball then the other 40 clubs should insist on punishing them. I mean really insist on it.

Throwing toys out the pram when they were pish all season.


PT initially accepted their lot but then someone gave them money to pursue this nonsense. It probably felt like a no risk gamble but siding with Hearts v the rest of the SPFL will cause a lot of damage regardless of outcome.

[Jack]

I don’t think he was talking about Hearts here.

This was about why the 3 respondents were doing a joint defence or whatever you call it with the SPFL and not on their own. Their lawyer was arguing that it would break the rules if they did so as it would be going to court against other members and that they could ultimately be kicked out the game.

Turning that the other way if Hertz and PT have taken on the SPFL and the 3 clubs does it mean they could be fined £4m each for bringing the case in the first place? £1m for each party affected.

[seanshow]

Nice that the clubs QC is Borland

Darts, Television & Legals

That shop is awesome! we used to make an annual pilgrimage to that shop when we were young whippersnappers to buy darts stems, and who knows maybe a risque set of flights with boobs on them :tee hee:

....the wooden backed tv's were out of the question though due to the weight issue, would have needed half a dozen of us to carry it.

[FilipinoHibs]

Superb.

That shop is like a time warp.

Once skint I got a remote from there for my TV that allowed me to watch a live Davis cup game on digital channel

[RoYO!]

It would be funny if they won their court case and then imposed a sanction, say, I dunno, relegation for hearts and partick?

:D

[Onion]

I’d be interested to see what happens in terms of the SFA possible sanctions being brought in to play if hearts and partick were to try and stop the league starting in August, think there would be some very unhappy clubs

Bottom line is the SFA will protect and support the game. They will never, ever allow 2 clubs to bring the others down. If this means expulsion of those 2 clubs then that is the price. Hearts and Partick have no idea what they are risking here. IMO they are in bigger jeopardy if they win this case in the COS than losing it.

[Springbank]

During which time period were Darts and TV shops a thing?

A great question.
From Lord Reith establishing the BBC to the present day (and going by the Borlands shop sign) it started in the 1920s and the heyday has been going ever since.

The ultimate example of retail resilience 🎯🖥

[Springbank]

Once skint I got a remote from there for my TV that allowed me to watch a live Davis cup game on digital channel

You really like the Davis Cup😂🎾🏆

[Sammy7nil]

Bottom line is the SFA will protect and support the game. They will never, ever allow 2 clubs to bring the others down. If this means expulsion of those 2 clubs then that is the price. Hearts and Partick have no idea what they are risking here. IMO they are in bigger jeopardy if they win this case in the COS than losing it.

As Leanne and others have said there is no chance of them being thrown out the leagues it has never even been discussed. Who ever loses will just have to suck it up we all hope that is Hearts and Thistle.

[Sammy7nil]

You really like the Davis Cup😂🎾🏆

Yip especially when the Murray's were in it and we won :greengrin

[Onion]

As Leanne and others have said there is no chance of them being thrown out the leagues it has never even been discussed. Who ever loses will just have to suck it up we all hope that is Hearts and Thistle.

It has been discussed. There is no chance that the 42 clubs will "suck up" a £10m compensation payment to Hearts and Partick. They'll be toast.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

Got an out of court settlement feel about it no?
All a game of brinkmanship around desired compensation.

[FilipinoHibs]

You really like the Davis Cup😂🎾🏆

On the bro and nothing to do🤫

[Waxy]

Got an out of court settlement feel about it no?
All a game of brinkmanship around desired compensation.

I think hearts and Partick will drop this as soon as they can.They’re digging a hole they might not get out.

[Since452]

Got an out of court settlement feel about it no?
All a game of brinkmanship around desired compensation.

I've thought that from the start. A few hundred grand compo which will remain undisclosed.

[Peevemor]

I've thought that from the start. A few hundred grand compo which will remain undisclosed.I'd be surprised.

There's no sporting reason to give them additional money. Unfortunately for them they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

[Springbank]

I've thought that from the start. A few hundred grand compo which will remain undisclosed.

Hearts shot themselves in the foot with the 8m figure

Theres no middle ground position to negotiate towards

Had they said "we are on record about a 3m hit - in normal circumstances- and as all clubs will be hit by covid & public safety measures, we could reduce that to a 2.1m claim, in these difficult circumstances for the sport" then they might have come out with 850k to 1m in a settlement (which spfl could call an enhanced parachute payment)

But an 8m starting point, forget it

[GordonHFC]

I've thought that from the start. A few hundred grand compo which will remain undisclosed.

Wouldn't we be liable for compensation if those two won their case?

[Since452]

Wouldn't we be liable for compensation if those two won their case?

It would certainly open a can of worms

[SouthMoroccoStu]

Got an out of court settlement feel about it no?
All a game of brinkmanship around desired compensation.

I agree but I hope they’re offered sod all

That’s what they’d both deserve

Hope they face strict sanctions for bring the game into disrepute

[Col2]

I am expecting it to go back to the SFA jurisdiction then an independent hearing by them and they will lose on all grounds

I then expect multiple charges by the SFA to both clubs and significant sanctions - scottish cup ban and big fine.

[Caversham Green]

I'd be surprised.

There's no sporting reason to give them additional money. Unfortunately for them they were in the wrong place at the wrong time.

There's nearly always a degree of uncertainty about the outcome of cases like this and we couldn't be sure costs would be awarded so if the settlement is less than the potential legal costs plus the time and effort putting the case together then it would be the sensible thing to do regardless of the rights and wrongs.


Wouldn't we be liable for compensation if those two won their case?

If there's an out of court settlement it means they haven't won their case.

[Sammy7nil]

It has been discussed. There is no chance that the 42 clubs will "suck up" a £10m compensation payment to Hearts and Partick. They'll be toast.

And there is no chance compensation will be £10 million.

Interested to hear who has been discussing chucking them out and how those talks have gone? IMHO it is all hot air and bluster.

[jacomo]

I've thought that from the start. A few hundred grand compo which will remain undisclosed.


I think you are right. It will allow Budge to claim a victory of sorts, and SPFL can say they recognise that Hearts, PT and Stranraer suffered by being denied the opportunity to save themselves from relegation, but all the decisions made in wrapping up the league stand.

But resentment and distrust will linger for a long time.

[Caversham Green]

Hearts shot themselves in the foot with the 8m figure

Theres no middle ground position to negotiate towards

Had they said "we are on record about a 3m hit - in normal circumstances- and as all clubs will be hit by covid & public safety measures, we could reduce that to a 2.1m claim, in these difficult circumstances for the sport" then they might have come out with 850k to 1m in a settlement (which spfl could call an enhanced parachute payment)

But an 8m starting point, forget it

That's very true. There's no point in looking at a £50 grand car if you've only got five grand as you'll never negotiate it down that far.

HoMFC and PT would have to make the first move on an out of court settlement now and they'll have to drop their demands massively.

[JimBHibees]

There's nearly always a degree of uncertainty about the outcome of cases like this and we couldn't be sure costs would be awarded so if the settlement is less than the potential legal costs plus the time and effort putting the case together then it would be the sensible thing to do regardless of the rights and wrongs.



If there's an out of court settlement it means they haven't won their case.

Could they win the case but not be awarded compensation? Assume judge would rule on a figure he deemed fair in the circumstances. If they won the case would that immediately stop promotion and relegation?

[Caversham Green]

Could they win the case but not be awarded compensation? Assume judge would rule on a figure he deemed fair in the circumstances. If they won the case would that immediately stop promotion and relegation?

If their case revolves around the dodgy Dundee vote and they win it (I still don't think they will) the obvious remedy would be to order a retake of the vote and they'd lose that. They might be awarded costs there though. I can't see how the CoS can rule at all on the question of promotion and relegation as it's entirely a sporting concept similar to the deduction of points for administration or chucking a club out of the cup for fielding an ineligible player.

[Brightside]

I've thought that from the start. A few hundred grand compo which will remain undisclosed.

Compo to all the other teams? I agree. Hearts and Benny should Pau I reckon 200k to each team for all their nonsense.

[Brightside]

Someone has to pay the court costs. No way will the other clubs be happy with that.

[Caversham Green]

Someone has to pay the court costs. No way will the other clubs be happy with that.

I think whatever the outcome now away games are going to be very uncomfortable for Dr Budge next season.

[Rumble de Thump]

The most likely outcome is sanctions for Hearts and Partick as this is all about them not being happy that the rules were applied.