Johnson Out

[Callum_62]

What a ridiculous article

[emoji1787][emoji1787]

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[McGhee]

The signing of Dylan Vente, for a massive fee given our circumstances, has given me, considerable hope for next season. We have a very good squad. If Lee can manage the squad to its optimum deliverance, then there's every reason to believe, that we will challenge for third place. We'll comfortably be top six, no worries there. The tools are there for Lee, its up to him and the rest of the management team to push the players to their maximum potential. Exciting season ahead, no doubt about it.

[jeffers]

Unsurprisingly I agree with a lot of that article.

No hiding place for Johnson behind a poor summer recruitment this season. He’s been heavily backed.

[Borderhibbie76]

What a ridiculous article

[emoji1787][emoji1787]

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It's actually quite horrific ah - dunno why the poster thinks that's a decent take at all

[007]

Unsurprisingly I agree with a lot of that article.

No hiding place for Johnson behind a poor summer recruitment this season. He’s been heavily backed.

You are Gary Keown and I claim my £10. 😀

[Hibees1973]

I can’t help but think I’d feel more excited about the squad we have now if we had a manager I had more faith in

I’ve still got a nagging feeling we’ll win five on the trot then lose five on the trot

Yes, it's like having pieces of the jigsaw but someone not capable of putting it together.

The money invested in the squad by the Gordon's is not in any doubt. As you said what is in doubt is Johnson's competence. We do have a favourable
run of league fixtures to get off to a positive start. We need to get through on Thursday and win on Sunday which will provide a decent platform for the 1st home leg against FC Luzern or Djurgardens. That will be a real European fixture against decent opposition.

We are going to find out a lot about the mettle and ability of our new signings by then and if Johnson is capable of getting them playing together well and gaining positive results. It is early, but we have to start early in positive fashion.

I've made up my mind on Johnson already. He has made far too many errors and said ridiculous things. I reckon he will not get Hibs to where the owners want. 3rd in the league and in the Europa Conference Group stages.

If he fails to get us to these Group stages and cannot string a good set of results in the league between now and September someone else better will come in.

[Silky]

I can’t help but think I’d feel more excited about the squad we have now if we had a manager I had more faith in

I’ve still got a nagging feeling we’ll win five on the trot then lose five on the trot

I think if that happened over the season we would amass 60 points which, by last seasons table, would have us third! I'd take that!!

[jeffers]

You are Gary Keown and I claim my £10. 😀

Nah I’d have been far more blunt.

There’s a lot of unnecessary stuff in that article but I think his criticism of Johnson has its merits.

[B.H.F.C]

Big few weeks for him.

Expect us to turn things round on Thursday without too much difficulty. Beyond this round whatever happens in Europe happens. I don’t think it’s a write off but we’ll be doing well to get through further so a winning start in the league and progress in the League Cup is imperative. Otherwise, it’ll be more of the same with folk unhappy and general discontent.

[Silky]

Big few weeks for him.

Expect us to turn things round on Thursday without too much difficulty. Beyond this round whatever happens in Europe happens. I don’t think it’s a write off but we’ll be doing well to get through further so a winning start in the league and progress in the League Cup is imperative. Otherwise, it’ll be more of the same with folk unhappy and general discontent.

I think in all my 40 years supporting Hibs there have always been folk unhappy and general discontent! 🤣

[Northernhibee]

The quality of writing in that article is absolutely atrocious, but that does mask a fair few points.

We're in Europe because Celtic won the cup, despite having several chances to qualify on our terms with two teams above us who both had runs so bad it cost their managers their job. Pumped out of the cup by the likes of Morton and Falkirk, then an embarrassing home defeat to Hearts.

He's very fortunate that we finished fifth.

[sean]

The quality of writing in that article is absolutely atrocious, but that does mask a fair few points.

We're in Europe because Celtic won the cup, despite having several chances to qualify on our terms with two teams above us who both had runs so bad it cost their managers their job. Pumped out of the cup by the likes of Morton and Falkirk, then an embarrassing home defeat to Hearts.

He's very fortunate that we finished fifth.

How are we very lucky to finish 5th? We beat st mirren and Celtic, drew away with Aberdeen and hearts? What was lucky about it? Didn’t we have one of our best post split seasons.

[Northernhibee]

How are we very lucky to finish 5th? We beat st mirren and Celtic, drew away with Aberdeen and hearts? What was lucky about it? Didn’t we have one of our best post split seasons.

Bottled it against Dundee United, St Johnstone, had an absolutely horrendous run of form from October or so all the way through to January, and when a win against Hearts would have done, we started doing things like putting Mikey Devlin on for a debut as a striker. Also went to Aberdeen, should have won, and didn't.

Third was there for the taking. Fourth should have been a given. We should have done better.

The league cup was a mile beyond acceptable but gave him the benefit of the doubt. The Scottish cup exit was mortifying.

[1875M]

Big season for LJ ahead. Slowly putting his own stamp on the team and has been backed by the board and now has a DoF with proven decent experience in McDermott. Has spent big money for the level we are competing at. IMO, really no excuses for not pushing for third this season. Still think we need one more in midfield though and based on the performance of the defence in the last game, possibly another defender.

[B.H.F.C]

I think in all my 40 years supporting Hibs there have always been folk unhappy and general discontent! 🤣

There probably has but there is a big difference with Johnson IMO.

There is a sizeable number of folk who have never really taken to him or are, at best, pretty indifferent towards him.

Then you need to factor in the money we have backed him with this summer in particular.

My expectations are pretty low on the European front. I don’t think it’s completely unachievable but, for any club outside the big two to get to a group stage, I think you probably need to go in to the competition at a stage that means it’s guaranteed. If he doesn’t get a good start domestically, things will turn ugly quite quickly.

In an ideal world we get through the qualifiers, get off to a flyer in the league and progress in the League Cup. Easy.

[Stuart93]

I think if that happened over the season we would amass 60 points which, by last seasons table, would have us third! I'd take that!!

Hahaha. In that case, I’m all for it!

[B.H.F.C]

Bottled it against Dundee United, St Johnstone, had an absolutely horrendous run of form from October or so all the way through to January, and when a win against Hearts would have done, we started doing things like putting Mikey Devlin on for a debut as a striker. Also went to Aberdeen, should have won, and didn't.

Third was there for the taking. Fourth should have been a given. We should have done better.

The league cup was a mile beyond acceptable but gave him the benefit of the doubt. The Scottish cup exit was mortifying.

Over the course of the season we threw the chance away to finish third but we definitely weren’t lucky to finish fifth. We won more games than every team that finished below us.

[sean]

Bottled it against Dundee United, St Johnstone, had an absolutely horrendous run of form from October or so all the way through to January, and when a win against Hearts would have done, we started doing things like putting Mikey Devlin on for a debut as a striker. Also went to Aberdeen, should have won, and didn't.

Third was there for the taking. Fourth should have been a given. We should have done better.

The league cup was a mile beyond acceptable but gave him the benefit of the doubt. The Scottish cup exit was mortifying.

We were a few points off Aberdeen in 3rd. There was nothing to choose between Hibs hearts and Aberdeen, I just can’t see how we were lucky to finish 5th? We finished 5th on merit after 38 matches.

Ups and downs all season long but we finished deservedly in 5th.

[Northernhibee]

We were a few points off Aberdeen in 3rd. There was nothing to choose between Hibs hearts and Aberdeen, I just can’t see how we were lucky to finish 5th? We finished 5th on merit after 38 matches.

Ups and downs all season long but we finished deservedly in 5th.

We went to St Johnstone away knowing that a win would guarantee us top six, and we put in a very poor performance and laboured to a draw. It was another game where LJ needed to get the team up for it, and it's fair to say that we yet again weren't at the races.

[Donegal Hibby]

For a manager who's suppose to throw players under the bus most of our new signing's have spoke about him in a good way and our current players seem to like him . Read this article today apologies if you have already seen it .
https://worldfootballindex.com/2023/07/lee-johnson-on-managing-hibernian-playing-in-the-efl-and-learning-from-his-father/

[Leith Green]

Big season for LJ ahead. Slowly putting his own stamp on the team and has been backed by the board and now has a DoF with proven decent experience in McDermott. Has spent big money for the level we are competing at. IMO, really no excuses for not pushing for third this season. Still think we need one more in midfield though and based on the performance of the defence in the last game, possibly another defender.



Your bang on . We need a powerful presence in that midfield, to let levit and newell make the attacking plays. We just look awfully lightweight in midfield

[Johnny_Leith]

We went to St Johnstone away knowing that a win would guarantee us top six, and we put in a very poor performance and laboured to a draw. It was another game where LJ needed to get the team up for it, and it's fair to say that we yet again weren't at the races.

We had a player wrongly sent off after 50 minutes and then dug in to get a point.

Funny how perspective works.

[B.H.F.C]

For a manager who's suppose to throw players under the bus most of our new signing's have spoke about him in a good way and our current players seem to like him . Read this article today apologies if you have already seen it .
https://worldfootballindex.com/2023/07/lee-johnson-on-managing-hibernian-playing-in-the-efl-and-learning-from-his-father/

Without reading the article, a player joining or an existing player, are hardly going to come out and talk negatively about the manager. I don’t know who does or doesn’t like him but you can bet there will be some who don’t, same as any workplace.

[Since452]

The quality of writing in that article is absolutely atrocious, but that does mask a fair few points.

We're in Europe because Celtic won the cup, despite having several chances to qualify on our terms with two teams above us who both had runs so bad it cost their managers their job. Pumped out of the cup by the likes of Morton and Falkirk, then an embarrassing home defeat to Hearts.

He's very fortunate that we finished fifth.

I thought we were unfortunate not to finish 3rd in the end. So many poor calls against us. Opinions!

[jeffers]

Without reading the article, a player joining or an existing player, are hardly going to come out and talk negatively about the manager. I don’t know who does or doesn’t like him but you can bet there will be some who don’t, same as any workplace.

Exactly.

[Hibernian Verse]

We went to St Johnstone away knowing that a win would guarantee us top six, and we put in a very poor performance and laboured to a draw. It was another game where LJ needed to get the team up for it, and it's fair to say that we yet again weren't at the races.

That’s a brutal take on that game. Terrible.

[Northernhibee]

We had a player wrongly sent off after 50 minutes and then dug in to get a point.

Funny how perspective works.

We barely created anything before that and were sluggish all over the pitch.

[Hibees1973]

For a manager who's suppose to throw players under the bus most of our new signing's have spoke about him in a good way and our current players seem to like him . Read this article today apologies if you have already seen it .
https://worldfootballindex.com/2023/07/lee-johnson-on-managing-hibernian-playing-in-the-efl-and-learning-from-his-father/

It's a bit naive to say that.

Would have expected that McDermott & the recruitment guys fed those lines to Johnson as under the new structure at Hibs it's those guys who are employed to scout/find players for Johnson.

I've heard more bad than good with regard to what the current squad think of Johnson, but maybe what I'm getting told is sh*te.

[jeffers]

It's a bit naive to say that.

Would have expected that McDermott & the recruitment guys fed those lines to Johnson as under the new structure at Hibs it's those guys who are employed to scout/find players for Johnson.

I've heard more bad than good with regard to what the current squad think of Johnson, but maybe what I'm getting told is sh*te.

It doesn’t equate to him having lost the dressing room, but we’ve heard the same “sh*te”. Whether it actually matters if the players like him or not I guess doesn’t matter ultimately. They loved Jack Ross but it didn’t help him in the end.

[Donegal Hibby]

Without reading the article, a player joining or an existing player, are hardly going to come out and talk negatively about the manager. I don’t know who does or doesn’t like him but you can bet there will be some who don’t, same as any workplace.
According to one poster on here Mcgeady did when the players asked about the manager though I put that down to being Tom kite as I know why the poster would say that .

Probably the ones he's been trying to move on though that won't be many and it seems the bulk of the players like him and are behind him .

[Scooter]

Whatever happens now, there's no hiding place for him now. The way he's been backed now is probably better than Any Hibs manager before. Don't get the results fairly quickly he got to go and there can't be any arguments

[Hibees1973]

It doesn’t equate to him having lost the dressing room, but we’ve heard the same “sh*te”. Whether it actually matters if the players like him or not I guess doesn’t matter ultimately. They loved Jack Ross but it didn’t help him in the end.

Good points.

From reading books by the Tornadoes most of them couldn't stand Turnbull.

Remember Boyle saying sacking Ross was wrong. But as Franck used to say 'thats ze football'

[B.H.F.C]

According to one poster on here Mcgeady did when the players asked about the manager though I put that down to being Tom kite as I know why the poster would say that .

Probably the ones he's been trying to move on though that won't be many and it seems the bulk of the players like him and are behind him .

To each other, of course they’ll talk about the manager be it positively or negatively. Again, same as in any industry. Publicly, they’re never going to come out and say anything negative about the guy they want to pick them.

[Allant1981]

Personally dont care if some players don't like him as i have no direct link to any of the players, dont care if he talks crap in interviews, if he moves us on as a club, hopefully wins us a cup then for me that's all that matters, if he doesn't and we fail in any of his targets that are set then he goes

[McGhee]

Before the internet, and interlopers, we used to have a pre season buzz. Post internet, we have glasses half empty. What the. We've just signed a rated player for 700 000, yet some still want to pre season half empty their glasses.

:greengrin

[GRA]

Not sure if anyone read the Gary Keown article on Johnson in the Mail on Sunday.

He absolutely tore him to shreds.

Keown is a bit of a stirrer but there was a large grain of truth in the article.

1) he writes for the Daily Mail
2) he'd previously written a bizarre article about Brendan Rodgers time at Celtic being a failure

Shock Jock hyperbolic gutter 'journalism' that is best ignored.

The result on Thursday was a stinker, no doubt about it, but the overreaction really is something else.

[Donegal Hibby]

To each other, of course they’ll talk about the manager be it positively or negatively. Again, same as in any industry. Publicly, they’re never going to come out and say anything negative about the guy they want to pick them.
Haven't heard of many players at LJ previous clubs talking negatively about him or our own club too for that matter He's seems fairly well respected in the game along with the rest of his family tbh though there as been rumours on here about what Mcgeady's supposed to have said and last year stories about how he lost the dressing room which had no evidence again to back up incorrect rumours once again about the manager .

[bingo70]

Haven't heard of many players at LJ previous clubs talking negatively about him or our own club too for that matter He's seems fairly well respected in the game along with the rest of his family tbh though there as been rumours on here about what Mcgeady's supposed to have said and last year stories about how he lost the dressing room which had no evidence again to back up incorrect rumours once again about the manager .

https://youtu.be/Qi3K6HfquVE

Might want to watch Chris Maguires celebration after his first goal in that games then. 😜

I’m on the fence about LJ but I think it’s fair to say there’s no hiding place now. If we don’t have a good season he’ll be sacked, if we have a good start to the season then brilliant.

I’m pretty relaxed about the managerial situation now.

[jeffers]

According to one poster on here Mcgeady did when the players asked about the manager though I put that down to being Tom kite as I know why the poster would say that .

Probably the ones he's been trying to move on though that won't be many and it seems the bulk of the players like him and are behind him .

Well you’d certainly be an authority on things that are Tom Kite. I don’t like Johnson, I have never made up a single thing about him though.

[jeffers]

Haven't heard of many players at LJ previous clubs talking negatively about him or our own club too for that matter He's seems fairly well respected in the game along with the rest of his family tbh though there as been rumours on here about what Mcgeady's supposed to have said and last year stories about how he lost the dressing room which had no evidence again to back up incorrect rumours once again about the manager .

Aah well if you haven’t heard of many players talking negatively about him let’s just close this thread. It’s actually funny that because you haven’t heard negative talk in your opinion the rumours are incorrect. Do you know anyone who has close links to people at the club ?

[Ronniekirk]

For a manager who's suppose to throw players under the bus most of our new signing's have spoke about him in a good way and our current players seem to like him . Read this article today apologies if you have already seen it .
https://worldfootballindex.com/2023/07/lee-johnson-on-managing-hibernian-playing-in-the-efl-and-learning-from-his-father/
That's because he hasn’t yet thrown them under the Bus 🤔🤗

[Donegal Hibby]

It's a bit naive to say that.

Would have expected that McDermott & the recruitment guys fed those lines to Johnson as under the new structure at Hibs it's those guys who are employed to scout/find players for Johnson.

I've heard more bad than good with regard to what the current squad think of Johnson, but maybe what I'm getting told is sh*te.

What is naive is someone going to want him sacked if he doesn't make the group stages . Yes we definitely have to get through on Thursday ( I think we will) though a wee bit of common sense needed on how hard it's going to be after that!.

Don't know what bad your hearing mate though if it's coming from a few on here than I'd say it is probably s***e tbh as there seems to be a bit of agenda some have against the manager tbh .

From what I've seen of our team there's seems to be a good spirit building from the end of last season and I think some poster said he spoke to Pat Stanton who said the players liked the manager which is good enough for me .

If we are struggling badly in the league fine then a change of manager will be needed though seeing as we haven't even started our league campaign I'm going to give the manager a chance that's gradually improving our football club .

[WhileTheChief..]

Why would anyone have an 'agenda' against LJ? What do you mean by that?

Your constant heckling of anyone that disagrees about LJ is over the top tbh. Why not just accept that within our support, some of us see things differently to you?

It's been the same with every manager we've had. If you'd been on here during Calderwood or BUtcher's times you'd have read far, far worse.

There will always be nagging voices after a bad result, no manager is immune from critics when it happens.

[Carheenlea]

What is naive is someone going to want him sacked if he doesn't make the group stages . Yes we definitely have to get through on Thursday ( I think we will) though a wee bit of common sense needed on how hard it's going to be after that!.

Don't know what bad your hearing mate though if it's coming from a few on here than I'd say it is probably s***e tbh as there seems to be a bit of agenda some have against the manager tbh .

From what I've seen of our team there's seems to be a good spirit building from the end of last season and I think some poster said he spoke to Pat Stanton who said the players liked the manager which is good enough for me .

If we are struggling badly in the league fine then a change of manager will be needed though seeing as we haven't even started our league campaign I'm going to give the manager a chance that's gradually improving our football club .

If Pat Stanton says the players like them then I trust his word on that.

I don’t know the posters who are suggesting some disharmony or how close they are to the squad, so harder to put your faith towards those claims, but time will tell.

The impression from the stands suggests a squad with good camaraderie for me anyway.

[Pickle]

I think any manager at the start of the new season deserves at least the first 11 games to then evaluate the situation(perhaps excluding St Johnstone). LJ has been backed and if we’re not delivering by the end of that run, questions will be asked. I think BM has made a massive difference to our recruitment strategy and, if when the time comes, will be heavily involved in sourcing a new manager

[Silky]

If Pat Stanton says the players like them then I trust his word on that.

I don’t know the posters who are suggesting some disharmony or how close they are to the squad, so harder to put your faith towards those claims, but time will tell.

The impression from the stands suggests a squad with good camaraderie for me anyway.

I'm the same. I think the dressing room is like every workplace, though in that there will be players who are happy and ones who are unhappy; ones who like their boss and others who are maybe not so happy with him. That's normal. Moods may change depending on who is playing and who isn't etc. As I've said before, though, I just find it so one-sided. All the gossip of unhappy players, all the stories of unrest, disharmony, whatever always surface after a bad resukt/run. There are never any "leaks" when we're winning, when things are going well. Never any stories of content dressingrooms, happy players etc. It is 100% an agenda, as the dressing room moles seem to go into hiding when everything in the garden is rosy.

[ChilliEater]

I'm the same. I think the dressing room is like every workplace, though in that there will be players who are happy and ones who are unhappy; ones who like their boss and others who are maybe not so happy with him. That's normal. Moods may change depending on who is playing and who isn't etc. As I've said before, though, I just find it so one-sided. All the gossip of unhappy players, all the stories of unrest, disharmony, whatever always surface after a bad resukt/run. There are never any "leaks" when we're winning, when things are going well. Never any stories of content dressingrooms, happy players etc. It is 100% an agenda, as the dressing room moles seem to go into hiding when everything in the garden is rosy.

No it's not.

[neil7908]

I think any manager at the start of the new season deserves at least the first 11 games to then evaluate the situation(perhaps excluding St Johnstone). LJ has been backed and if we’re not delivering by the end of that run, questions will be asked. I think BM has made a massive difference to our recruitment strategy and, if when the time comes, will be heavily involved in sourcing a new manager

On paper I like the business we have done this summer but I think it's quite early to judge whether or not BM has improved us.

I remember lots defending Ian Gordon and our recruitment last summer, and the excitement around Tavares and signing McKirdy for a big fee.

I'm positive about the first XI at this stage but we don't exactly have a huge volume of evidence yet that our summer signings are a success...

[mcohibs]

We went to St Johnstone away knowing that a win would guarantee us top six, and we put in a very poor performance and laboured to a draw. It was another game where LJ needed to get the team up for it, and it's fair to say that we yet again weren't at the races.

Some take that.

St J game we were done by one of the worst refereeing decisions I’ve ever seen. Down a man with a half of football still to play. Battled to hold on for a point and secured top six. It was one of our results of the season.

The game before that the same lineup beat Hearts. First time we’d won a home league derby since Lennon was in charge.

[CallumHibs07]

Nothing below 3rd acceptable after this investment

[JohnM1875]

Nothing below 3rd acceptable after this investment

We're not the only team investing though? Aberdeen have heavily invested as well, signing Clarkson on a permanent for example.

Hearts starting to sign players as well and are apparently interested in Strain of St Mirren.

[Donegal Hibby]

https://youtu.be/Qi3K6HfquVE

Might want to watch Chris Maguires celebration after his first goal in that games then. 😜

I’m on the fence about LJ but I think it’s fair to say there’s no hiding place now. If we don’t have a good season he’ll be sacked, if we have a good start to the season then brilliant.

I’m pretty relaxed about the managerial situation now.
Might what to read this though!
https://www.chroniclelive.co.uk/sport/football/football-news/phil-parkinson-mcdonalds-photo-maguire-17409319

[CallumHibs07]

We're not the only team investing though? Aberdeen have heavily invested as well, signing Clarkson on a permanent for example.

Hearts starting to sign players as well and are apparently interested in Strain of St Mirren.

3rd will be the target for them as well but i dont see why we should be happy with any less after well over £1m spent

[Carheenlea]

3rd will be the target for them as well but i dont see why we should be happy with any less after well over £1m spent

Because it’s sport, not an exact science.

We should be expecting to be in the mix for 3rd though, as we were last season.

[JimBHibees]

I'm the same. I think the dressing room is like every workplace, though in that there will be players who are happy and ones who are unhappy; ones who like their boss and others who are maybe not so happy with him. That's normal. Moods may change depending on who is playing and who isn't etc. As I've said before, though, I just find it so one-sided. All the gossip of unhappy players, all the stories of unrest, disharmony, whatever always surface after a bad resukt/run. There are never any "leaks" when we're winning, when things are going well. Never any stories of content dressingrooms, happy players etc. It is 100% an agenda, as the dressing room moles seem to go into hiding when everything in the garden is rosy.

Tend to agree. You also have to take into account footballers are generally egotistical and selfish and will always look to pass the blame.

[B.H.F.C]

3rd will be the target for them as well but i dont see why we should be happy with any less after well over £1m spent

Don’t think it’s that black and white. We’re competing against teams that generally spend a bit more than us and are also investing. If, for example, we were to go and get 68 points but finish fourth it would be a huge improvement, a record points total and if someone bettered it you can’t do much more.

What we absolutely need to make sure we do is get the best out of ourselves which we never did too often last season. The gap between us and the rest of the league is getting bigger, definitely financially, so whilst we’ll lose game here and there we shouldn’t be losing to the rest regularly.

[Pretty Boy]

We're not the only team investing though? Aberdeen have heavily invested as well, signing Clarkson on a permanent for example.

Hearts starting to sign players as well and are apparently interested in Strain of St Mirren.

And both those clubs will have fans who are expecting 3rd as well.

I've never liked the term 'accepting mediocrity' but I think we are reaching a point where there is little reason to be excusing mediocrity. If Celtic and Rangers are in a league of their own financially then I think we are reaching a point at which Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen are in a little group of 3 who are also in a different market from the other 7; in the case of Hibs someone like Vente is simply out of reach of anyone else in the league outwith those mentioned previously. There are 7 clubs who simply can't afford a £700K fee and the wages that come with that, same with Shankland at Hearts or Clarkson at Aberdeen. The same is true of several players in our squad. For the 3 of us then it really should be a little mini league for 3rd, 4th and 5th with the aim being 3rd. Obviously we will drop points over the course of the season to lesser teams but through 38 games we should be well ahead, it really comes down to who is the most consistent. Last season we were actually very good against the top 6 teams but much poorer against the bottom 6 than Aberdeen, that was the difference and it really isn't acceptable this season.

I don't think the financial gap between Hibs and Aberdeen is what it once was either. When both teams released their accounts this year the total wages weren't hugely different, certainly compared to previous years. Obviously by the nature of when accounts are released the figures are already somewhat out of date and it also has to be considered that the figure is for total wages rather than just players but 2 comparable sized clubs with comparable turnovers will spend money in broadly the same areas. More telling was Dave Cormack's comments that Aberdeen were having to spend more to 'keep up with Hibs and Hearts.' We are clearly seen by one of our rivals for 3rd as being a club who shop in the same marketplace and are genuine competition for players.

Hearts and Aberdeen have both had or are going to have huge financial windfalls from Europe. As a one off that is probably a gap that can be bridged, if either of them get that windfall twice then it becomes a bigger deal. Our aim this year needs to be stopping that and that means getting into 3rd ourselves. The ambition from within the club will be to finish higher than last season, you don't spend £1.5-2M on fees alone if you are happy to finish in the same position as before. Johnson will be under pressure to deliver this season and if he isn't then he will be replaced by someone else who the club feel is better equipped to do so.

[Paulie Walnuts]

And both those clubs will have fans who are expecting 3rd as well.

I've never liked the term 'accepting mediocrity' but I think we are reaching a point where there is little reason to be excusing mediocrity. If Celtic and Rangers are in a league of their own financially then I think we are reaching a point at which Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen are in a little group of 3 who are also in a different market from the other 7; in the case of Hibs someone like Vente is simply out of reach of anyone else in the league outwith those mentioned previously. There are 7 clubs who simply can't afford a £700K fee and the wages that come with that, same with Shankland at Hearts or Clarkson at Aberdeen. The same is true of several players in our squad. For the 3 of us then it really should be a little mini league for 3rd, 4th and 5th with the aim being 3rd. Obviously we will drop points over the course of the season to lesser teams but through 38 games we should be well ahead, it really comes down to who is the most consistent. Last season we were actually very good against the top 6 teams but much poorer against the bottom 6 than Aberdeen, that was the difference and it really isn't acceptable this season.

I don't think the financial gap between Hibs and Aberdeen is what it once was either. When both teams released their accounts this year the total wages weren't hugely different, certainly compared to previous years. Obviously by the nature of when accounts are released the figures are already somewhat out of date and it also has to be considered that the figure is for total wages rather than just players but 2 comparable sized clubs with comparable turnovers will spend money in broadly the same areas. More telling was Dave Cormack's comments that Aberdeen were having to spend more to 'keep up with Hibs and Hearts.' We are clearly seen by one of our rivals for 3rd as being a club who shop in the same marketplace and are genuine competition for players.

Hearts and Aberdeen have both had or are going to have huge financial windfalls from Europe. As a one off that is probably a gap that can be bridged, if either of them get that windfall twice then it becomes a bigger deal. Our aim this year needs to be stopping that and that means getting into 3rd ourselves. The ambition from within the club will be to finish higher than last season, you don't spend £1.5-2M on fees alone if you are happy to finish in the same position as before. Johnson will be under pressure to deliver this season and if he isn't then he will be replaced by someone else who the club feel is better equipped to do so.

:agree:

Agree with all of this.

There can be no doubting now that we’re in a completely different market to the 7 other teams in the league. As such, our league position needs to start reflecting that.

[WhileTheChief..]

I'm the same. I think the dressing room is like every workplace, though in that there will be players who are happy and ones who are unhappy; ones who like their boss and others who are maybe not so happy with him. That's normal. Moods may change depending on who is playing and who isn't etc. As I've said before, though, I just find it so one-sided. All the gossip of unhappy players, all the stories of unrest, disharmony, whatever always surface after a bad resukt/run. There are never any "leaks" when we're winning, when things are going well. Never any stories of content dressingrooms, happy players etc. It is 100% an agenda, as the dressing room moles seem to go into hiding when everything in the garden is rosy.

Here's this word again. What do you mean?

I'm not that keen on LJ and wouldn't mind if he left. I think that as a club, we could progress quicker with someone else in charge.

That's the only difference between myself and anyone that likes and feels positive about LJ.

We're all Hibs fans and all want the best for our club.

What 'agenda' do you think I have and why won't you believe me when I say I don't have one?

None of us who don't fancy LJ come on here accusing you guys of being liars or insulting you.

Can you not extend the same courtesies to us? There's no need for you to be accusing me or anyone else of anything here.

[Trinity Hibee]

And both those clubs will have fans who are expecting 3rd as well.

I've never liked the term 'accepting mediocrity' but I think we are reaching a point where there is little reason to be excusing mediocrity. If Celtic and Rangers are in a league of their own financially then I think we are reaching a point at which Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen are in a little group of 3 who are also in a different market from the other 7; in the case of Hibs someone like Vente is simply out of reach of anyone else in the league outwith those mentioned previously. There are 7 clubs who simply can't afford a £700K fee and the wages that come with that, same with Shankland at Hearts or Clarkson at Aberdeen. The same is true of several players in our squad. For the 3 of us then it really should be a little mini league for 3rd, 4th and 5th with the aim being 3rd. Obviously we will drop points over the course of the season to lesser teams but through 38 games we should be well ahead, it really comes down to who is the most consistent. Last season we were actually very good against the top 6 teams but much poorer against the bottom 6 than Aberdeen, that was the difference and it really isn't acceptable this season.

I don't think the financial gap between Hibs and Aberdeen is what it once was either. When both teams released their accounts this year the total wages weren't hugely different, certainly compared to previous years. Obviously by the nature of when accounts are released the figures are already somewhat out of date and it also has to be considered that the figure is for total wages rather than just players but 2 comparable sized clubs with comparable turnovers will spend money in broadly the same areas. More telling was Dave Cormack's comments that Aberdeen were having to spend more to 'keep up with Hibs and Hearts.' We are clearly seen by one of our rivals for 3rd as being a club who shop in the same marketplace and are genuine competition for players.

Hearts and Aberdeen have both had or are going to have huge financial windfalls from Europe. As a one off that is probably a gap that can be bridged, if either of them get that windfall twice then it becomes a bigger deal. Our aim this year needs to be stopping that and that means getting into 3rd ourselves. The ambition from within the club will be to finish higher than last season, you don't spend £1.5-2M on fees alone if you are happy to finish in the same position as before. Johnson will be under pressure to deliver this season and if he isn't then he will be replaced by someone else who the club feel is better equipped to do so.

Well said

[Lago]

I'm the same. I think the dressing room is like every workplace, though in that there will be players who are happy and ones who are unhappy; ones who like their boss and others who are maybe not so happy with him. That's normal. Moods may change depending on who is playing and who isn't etc. As I've said before, though, I just find it so one-sided. All the gossip of unhappy players, all the stories of unrest, disharmony, whatever always surface after a bad resukt/run. There are never any "leaks" when we're winning, when things are going well. Never any stories of content dressingrooms, happy players etc. It is 100% an agenda, as the dressing room moles seem to go into hiding when everything in the garden is rosy.
Excellent post :aok:

[jeffers]

Here's this word again. What do you mean?

I'm not that keen on LJ and wouldn't mind if he left. I think that as a club, we could progress quicker with someone else in charge.

That's the only difference between myself and anyone that likes and feels positive about LJ.

We're all Hibs fans and all want the best for our club.

What 'agenda' do you think I have and why won't you believe me when I say I don't have one?

None of us who don't fancy LJ come on here accusing you guys of being liars or insulting you.

Can you not extend the same courtesies to us? There's no need for you to be accusing me or anyone else of anything here.

:agree:

I really haven’t taken to the guy for a number of reasons, but it wasn’t how I felt when he was i initially appointed. It’s been a year of seeing him in action that’s got me to the stage I’m at now, in the same way some people have warmed to him over that period. Absolutely I’ll be glad when he’s gone, but I have never made up a single thing I have posted about him, that info has come from friends who have contacts at the club.

It’s always a challenge to get the managerial appointment right, but like you I believe we could do better with someone else in charge.

[Brightside]

Hibs the Club really don't pay any attention to a fans forum when they go about their business. So any "agenda" on here would be pointless. You can dislike someone without having an agenda. I don't like him. I don't have an agenda. Personally I don't like that he is very slow to take responsibility when things go wrong. And someone reposting every article about him won't change that. I couldn't care less what is in the press about him. Same goes for any other manager. The press is complete codswallop. But there is no way he is going to be sacked any time soon after making this much investment in the team.

This is a huge amount of money we have invested more than any recent manager has had. We need to see the benefit of that quickly.

[matty_f]

We went to St Johnstone away knowing that a win would guarantee us top six, and we put in a very poor performance and laboured to a draw. It was another game where LJ needed to get the team up for it, and it's fair to say that we yet again weren't at the races.

We laboured to a draw with ten men after Jeggo was wrongly sent off. There’s context to that result.

[CallumHibs07]

Because it’s sport, not an exact science.

We should be expecting to be in the mix for 3rd though, as we were last season.

So you'd be happy with a repeat of last season?

We were never seriously competing for 3rd. We had a rally before the split iirc and other than that were nowhere near all season

[JeMeSouviens]

:agree:

I really haven’t taken to the guy for a number of reasons, but it wasn’t how I felt when he was i initially appointed. It’s been a year of seeing him in action that’s got me to the stage I’m at now, in the same way some people have warmed to him over that period. Absolutely I’ll be glad when he’s gone, but I have never made up a single thing I have posted about him, that info has come from friends who have contacts at the club.

It’s always a challenge to get the managerial appointment right, but like you I believe we could do better with someone else in charge.

I'm in this boat as well. Wasn't keen on him but willing to give him a fair chance. We had a mediocre league season, a disaster in both cups and he's followed that up with one of the most embarrassing results in our history. Topped off with a load of blether and cringeworthy excuses.

The only good argument for keeping him seems to be we might get someone worse. But shirley with a bit of care in the appointment, we might get someone much better?

[WeeRussell]

Here's this word again. What do you mean?

I'm not that keen on LJ and wouldn't mind if he left. I think that as a club, we could progress quicker with someone else in charge.

That's the only difference between myself and anyone that likes and feels positive about LJ.

We're all Hibs fans and all want the best for our club.

What 'agenda' do you think I have and why won't you believe me when I say I don't have one?

None of us who don't fancy LJ come on here accusing you guys of being liars or insulting you.

Can you not extend the same courtesies to us? There's no need for you to be accusing me or anyone else of anything here.

I think the poster probably wasn’t referring to you WTC 👍

Re your last two paragraphs though, you may want to take it easy on the complaints about accusations/insults and extending courtesies - I went to the first page of this thread as I was interested to see when this particular “Johnson out” chat started, and your very first contribution is calling posters trolls for suggesting LJ should stay.

[Carheenlea]

So you'd be happy with a repeat of last season?

We were never seriously competing for 3rd. We had a rally before the split iirc and other than that were nowhere near all season

Third was there for the taking, and anyone out of ourselves, Aberdeen and Hearts could have wrapped it up with games to spare but we all went through some dreadful runs. Aberdeen stumbled over the line but we were certainly in the mix.

I’ve no idea how the season will pan out on a results/performance basis, but if we’re competing for third as season closes then would take that that right now.

Would certainly be hoping for a more extensive run in the cups than last, that’s for sure.

[Callum_62]

So you'd be happy with a repeat of last season?

We were never seriously competing for 3rd. We had a rally before the split iirc and other than that were nowhere near all seasonWernt we a look late missing Kevin Nisbet penalty away from taking it to the last day?

That's surely "competing"

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

I'm in this boat as well. Wasn't keen on him but willing to give him a fair chance. We had a mediocre league season, a disaster in both cups and he's followed that up with one of the most embarrassing results in our history. Topped off with a load of blether and cringeworthy excuses.

The only good argument for keeping him seems to be we might get someone worse. But shirley with a bit of care in the appointment, we might get someone much better?

I think it's fair to say that any manager who failed to get out a piss easy LC group as their first act was always going to use up any goodwill they had pretty quickly. Add to that that after a pretty decent start to the league season we went on a run of 2 wins in 11 games with the losses including a 6-1 v Celtic, 4-1 v Aberdeen, 2-0 v Ross County, 3-0 v Hearts and 4-0 v Celtic. Just after that run we got horsed 0-3 by Hearts in the Scottish Cup as well. We also blew a chance to really put ourselves in a strong position for 3rd by losing 2-1 at Tannadice against a shocking Dundee Utd side and from then on we were always in the unlikely but possible camp rather than being right in the driving seat. Across his time at Hibs Johnson has lost 3 more competitive games than he has won, 20 v 17.

It's not an agenda to question a guy with that kind of record, frankly it would be more surprising if he wasn't under a decent level of scrutiny and pressure. A lot of the defence of him is based on things that are quite hard to quantify or are subjective: 'The football has been a bit more entertaining' or 'there is more intent about our play'. That's not to say they aren't valid points for discussion but in terms of things you can actually measure we finished 5th in the league which is about the bare minimum we should expect, were emptied out of both cups at the 1st stage, had statistically the 2nd worst one off result for a Scottish side in Europe ever and lost more games than we won in the league last season.

Whether I like or dislike Johnson is largely irrelevant albeit I think we are all more inclined to make excuses for people we feel a real connection to. All I'm interested in is how he performs in his job and thus far the jury is still well and truly out.

[WeeRussell]

I think it's fair to say that any manager who failed to get out a piss easy LC group as their first act was always going to use up any goodwill they had pretty quickly. Add to that that after a pretty decent start to the league season we went on a run of 2 wins in 11 games with the losses including a 6-1 v Celtic, 4-1 v Aberdeen, 2-0 v Ross County, 3-0 v Hearts and 4-0 v Celtic. Just after that run we got horsed 0-3 by Hearts in the Scottish Cup as well. We also blew a chance to really put ourselves in a strong position for 3rd by losing 2-1 at Tannadice against a shocking Dundee Utd side and from then on we were always in the unlikely but possible camp rather than being right in the driving seat. Across his time at Hibs Johnson has lost 3 more competitive games than he has won, 20 v 17.

It's not an agenda to question a guy with that kind of record, frankly it would be more surprising if he wasn't under a decent level of scrutiny and pressure. A lot of the defence of him is based on things that are quite hard to quantify or are subjective: 'The football has been a bit more entertaining' or 'there is more intent about our play'. That's not to say they aren't valid points for discussion but in terms of things you can actually measure we finished 5th in the league which is about the bare minimum we should expect, were emptied out of both cups at the 1st stage, had statistically the 2nd worst one off result for a Scottish side in Europe ever and lost more games than we won in the league last season.

Whether I like or dislike Johnson is largely irrelevant albeit I think we are all more inclined to make excuses for people we feel a real connection to. All I'm interested in is how he performs in his job and thus far the jury is still well and truly out.

I’d add if it wasn’t for the excitement around Vente this week (and our general investment) we (including myself) would probably be placing more focus and frustration on Johnson’s failings.

[matty_f]

:agree:

Agree with all of this.

There can be no doubting now that we’re in a completely different market to the 7 other teams in the league. As such, our league position needs to start reflecting that.
Needs to continue to reflect that - 5th last season put us bottom of that league of 3 but above the other 7 clubs. And really,. There was very little in that league of 3 by the end of the season.

[nonshinyfinish]

Needs to continue to reflect that - 5th last season put us bottom of that league of 3 but above the other 7 clubs. And really,. There was very little in that league of 3 by the end of the season.

Obviously league position is what ultimately matters, but what I'd like to see is more consistency against the other 7. If Aberdeen and Hearts are spending similar money to us then (in theory) we should have teams of a vaguely similar standard, and so those games can always turn on the old Jack Ross 'fine margins'. If we've widened the financial gap to the other 7, however, then it should be increasingly rare that we drop points against them. Not that I expect to win every time, but if we have a significantly better squad then we should be more able to win despite some bad decisions or a sub-par performance.

[Donegal Hibby]

I'm the same. I think the dressing room is like every workplace, though in that there will be players who are happy and ones who are unhappy; ones who like their boss and others who are maybe not so happy with him. That's normal. Moods may change depending on who is playing and who isn't etc. As I've said before, though, I just find it so one-sided. All the gossip of unhappy players, all the stories of unrest, disharmony, whatever always surface after a bad resukt/run. There are never any "leaks" when we're winning, when things are going well. Never any stories of content dressingrooms, happy players etc. It is 100% an agenda, as the dressing room moles seem to go into hiding when everything in the garden is rosy.
:agree::top marks

[JeMeSouviens]

Needs to continue to reflect that - 5th last season put us bottom of that league of 3 but above the other 7 clubs. And really,. There was very little in that league of 3 by the end of the season.

Bottom of that league in a season where Hearts fell apart and Aberdeen were a shambles for most of it notwithstanding their late rally.

[CallumHibs07]

Wernt we a look late missing Kevin Nisbet penalty away from taking it to the last day?

That's surely "competing"

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

The closest we got was about 4 points and thats when the season was almost over. Some stretch to say we were in the mix

Last season wasn't good enough.

[Callum_62]

The closest we got was about 4 points and thats when the season was almost over. Some stretch to say we were in the mix

Last season wasn't good enough.A late missed penalty away from taking it to the final day isn't in the mix?

I don't really agree

We were battling to get there but our top 6 performances got us into the mix

It stopped at nisbets missed penalty though

Regardless let's hope we skoosh third this year [emoji1787]

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[matty_f]

Bottom of that league in a season where Hearts fell apart and Aberdeen were a shambles for most of it notwithstanding their late rally.

That's not true about Aberdeen. They had a bad spell but they were doing well up to the world cup break iirc. Hearts had third wrapped up by Christmas, their session fell apart largely due to injuries -the same can be said for our troubles last season as well.

[matty_f]

Obviously league position is what ultimately matters, but what I'd like to see is more consistency against the other 7. If Aberdeen and Hearts are spending similar money to us then (in theory) we should have teams of a vaguely similar standard, and so those games can always turn on the old Jack Ross 'fine margins'. If we've widened the financial gap to the other 7, however, then it should be increasingly rare that we drop points against them. Not that I expect to win every time, but if we have a significantly better squad then we should be more able to win despite some bad decisions or a sub-par performance.

Think that's counter to a lot of the arguments made against Jack Ross, who did consistently get results against the other seven AND third place AND cup runs but didn't have the big moment results to satisfy folk.

[WhileTheChief..]

I think the poster probably wasn’t referring to you WTC 👍

Re your last two paragraphs though, you may want to take it easy on the complaints about accusations/insults and extending courtesies - I went to the first page of this thread as I was interested to see when this particular “Johnson out” chat started, and your very first contribution is calling posters trolls for suggesting LJ should stay.

I'll take you at your word on that re my first post, I'm not going back to check on the context or whatever so fair cop :greengrin

In fairness though, the thread was started back in January. That you went back and looked at my post from then to make a point could maybe be considered trolling? :wink:

Only joking, All good :thumbsup:

[overdrive]

I think it's fair to say that any manager who failed to get out a piss easy LC group as their first act was always going to use up any goodwill they had pretty quickly. Add to that that after a pretty decent start to the league season we went on a run of 2 wins in 11 games with the losses including a 6-1 v Celtic, 4-1 v Aberdeen, 2-0 v Ross County, 3-0 v Hearts and 4-0 v Celtic. Just after that run we got horsed 0-3 by Hearts in the Scottish Cup as well. We also blew a chance to really put ourselves in a strong position for 3rd by losing 2-1 at Tannadice against a shocking Dundee Utd side and from then on we were always in the unlikely but possible camp rather than being right in the driving seat. Across his time at Hibs Johnson has lost 3 more competitive games than he has won, 20 v 17.

It's not an agenda to question a guy with that kind of record, frankly it would be more surprising if he wasn't under a decent level of scrutiny and pressure. A lot of the defence of him is based on things that are quite hard to quantify or are subjective: 'The football has been a bit more entertaining' or 'there is more intent about our play'. That's not to say they aren't valid points for discussion but in terms of things you can actually measure we finished 5th in the league which is about the bare minimum we should expect, were emptied out of both cups at the 1st stage, had statistically the 2nd worst one off result for a Scottish side in Europe ever and lost more games than we won in the league last season.

Whether I like or dislike Johnson is largely irrelevant albeit I think we are all more inclined to make excuses for people we feel a real connection to. All I'm interested in is how he performs in his job and thus far the jury is still well and truly out.

I think Shaun Maloney being so bad has given Johnson a way easier ride than he would have had if, let's say he replaced Jack Ross directly. Any small glimpse of improvement on Maloney's results and horrific style of play is seen as a "win" when actually Johnson should be doing a lot better himself. It is linked to the point someone made earlier that a lot of the defence of LJ seems to be "oh we might replace him with someone worse". In other words, "we better not sack him as we might appoint another Maloney"

[nonshinyfinish]

Think that's counter to a lot of the arguments made against Jack Ross, who did consistently get results against the other seven AND third place AND cup runs but didn't have the big moment results to satisfy folk.

Don't want a 'big games' debate, but I guess what I'm saying is that consistency against the smaller clubs should be the base to work from, with the expectation that we'll be competitive against Hearts/Aberdeen. If we do that and have an overall positive record against Hearts/Aberdeen, it's probably a good season.

[Hibbyradge]

Bottom of that league in a season where Hearts fell apart and Aberdeen were a shambles for most of it notwithstanding their late rally.

If even one of the wrong refereeing decisions hadn't happened, we would have been 4th.

If half of them hadn't happened, we would have been 3rd.

[Pretty Boy]

If even one of the wrong refereeing decisions hadn't happened, we would have been 4th.

If half of them hadn't happened, we would have been 3rd.

That is of course based on the assumption that neither Hearts or Aberdeen had any refereeing decisions go against them that resulted in dropped points across the entire season.

[Hibbyradge]

That is of course based on the assumption that neither Hearts or Aberdeen had any refereeing decisions go against them that resulted in dropped points across the entire season.

Granted, but I'm certain that they weren't victim to the same number as we were. There was a fair amount of criticism of our referees in the media on at least a couple of occasions, the Ross County assault on Marshall to name one.

Indeed, Aberdeen benefitted from one shocking misuse of VAR when Duk dived for a penalty at Pitoddrie when we were dominating.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I think it's fair to say that any manager who failed to get out a piss easy LC group as their first act was always going to use up any goodwill they had pretty quickly. Add to that that after a pretty decent start to the league season we went on a run of 2 wins in 11 games with the losses including a 6-1 v Celtic, 4-1 v Aberdeen, 2-0 v Ross County, 3-0 v Hearts and 4-0 v Celtic. Just after that run we got horsed 0-3 by Hearts in the Scottish Cup as well. We also blew a chance to really put ourselves in a strong position for 3rd by losing 2-1 at Tannadice against a shocking Dundee Utd side and from then on we were always in the unlikely but possible camp rather than being right in the driving seat. Across his time at Hibs Johnson has lost 3 more competitive games than he has won, 20 v 17.

It's not an agenda to question a guy with that kind of record, frankly it would be more surprising if he wasn't under a decent level of scrutiny and pressure. A lot of the defence of him is based on things that are quite hard to quantify or are subjective: 'The football has been a bit more entertaining' or 'there is more intent about our play'. That's not to say they aren't valid points for discussion but in terms of things you can actually measure we finished 5th in the league which is about the bare minimum we should expect, were emptied out of both cups at the 1st stage, had statistically the 2nd worst one off result for a Scottish side in Europe ever and lost more games than we won in the league last season.

Whether I like or dislike Johnson is largely irrelevant albeit I think we are all more inclined to make excuses for people we feel a real connection to. All I'm interested in is how he performs in his job and thus far the jury is still well and truly out.

We also got to a point with LJ where he’d managed more games than Maloney and had either a worse or very similar PPG (I can’t remember now which it was).

We got fairly deep into his tenure with some disastrous results and generally speaking an awful record. Any goodwill wasn’t just gone for a lot of folk at that stage, he was way in the red and when you consider that we’d been subjected to him for longer than Maloney and were arguably even worse at one point that’s not a real surprise. Despite that, a lot of people were saying at that point they were really happy with him.

With that in mind, I’m not surprised there’s still plenty people with reservations about him and I don’t think it’s necessarily some sort of agenda at all, it’s really just people calling it how they see it on both sides.

[matty_f]

We also got to a point with LJ where he’d managed more games than Maloney and had either a worse or very similar PPG (I can’t remember now which it was).

We got fairly deep into his tenure with some disastrous results and generally speaking an awful record. Any goodwill wasn’t just gone for a lot of folk at that stage, he was way in the red and when you consider that we’d been subjected to him for longer than Maloney and were arguably even worse at one point that’s not a real surprise.

I made a similar point on the BBC podcast yesterday, I like Johnson and am happy to defend him but I'm not one for entrenched views and add the evidence grows to support a different viewpoint then I'll change my opinion accordingly.

There is mounting evidence that questions Johnson's capabilities for the role - last Thursday's debacle was just more fuel to the fire.

Last season, there is context and mitigation for some of the shockers and so I'm rejecting to just blindly lump them all into the "disasters that are the fault of Lee Johnson" pile, but as the context changes and the mitigation diminishes, his role in the disasters becomes harder to defend.

[WhileTheChief..]

I think Shaun Maloney being so bad has given Johnson a way easier ride than he would have had if, let's say he replaced Jack Ross directly. Any small glimpse of improvement on Maloney's results and horrific style of play is seen as a "win" when actually Johnson should be doing a lot better himself. It is linked to the point someone made earlier that a lot of the defence of LJ seems to be "oh we might replace him with someone worse". In other words, "we better not sack him as we might appoint another Maloney"

The strongest argument in defence of LJ is that we can't keep changing managers. It's rarely about what he brings to the table himself.

He's lucky the bar was set so low by Maloney.

[Since452]

I think Shaun Maloney being so bad has given Johnson a way easier ride than he would have had if, let's say he replaced Jack Ross directly. Any small glimpse of improvement on Maloney's results and horrific style of play is seen as a "win" when actually Johnson should be doing a lot better himself. It is linked to the point someone made earlier that a lot of the defence of LJ seems to be "oh we might replace him with someone worse". In other words, "we better not sack him as we might appoint another Maloney"

Johnson wouldn't have needed such a massive rebuild if he'd replaced Ross. Appointing Maloney was a complete disaster that set us back a couple of years IMO. Hopefully we're back on the right track after a season of transition. We ended it pretty well. That said, as mentioned earlier there isn't any margin for long poor runs with the money we've spent.

[basehibby]

Why would anyone have an 'agenda' against LJ? What do you mean by that?

Your constant heckling of anyone that disagrees about LJ is over the top tbh. Why not just accept that within our support, some of us see things differently to you?

It's been the same with every manager we've had. If you'd been on here during Calderwood or BUtcher's times you'd have read far, far worse.

There will always be nagging voices after a bad result, no manager is immune from critics when it happens.

An "agenda" can be as simple as the desire - conscious or otherwise - to confirm your own biases and thereby look clever or ITK.

[Brightside]

Don't want a 'big games' debate, but I guess what I'm saying is that consistency against the smaller clubs should be the base to work from, with the expectation that we'll be competitive against Hearts/Aberdeen. If we do that and have an overall positive record against Hearts/Aberdeen, it's probably a good season.

Imagine if we'd given him all this cash....we'd be winning the league. :greengrin

[basehibby]

The strongest argument in defence of LJ is that we can't keep changing managers. It's rarely about what he brings to the table himself.

He's lucky the bar was set so low by Maloney.

That's untrue from where I'm standing. For my money the strongest argument in favour of Johnson is the markedly more direct attacking brand of football he has brought to the club. Ross and Maloney were both criticised heavily for trying to play tippy tappy resulting in boring football - I noticed a change in that approach from LJ's 1st game in charge and it's been a constant feature of his tenure.
In that positive change of style and I see some hope for the future and that's the main reason I've been one of his supporters on here.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Johnson wouldn't have needed such a massive rebuild if he'd replaced Ross. Appointing Maloney was a complete disaster that set us back a couple of years IMO. Hopefully we're back on the right track after a season of transition. We ended it pretty well. That said, as mentioned earlier there isn't any margin for long poor runs with the money we've spent.

Under Maloney we signed:

Melkersen
Rocky - loan
Mitchell
Clarke - loan
Jasper - loan
Henderson

Mueller was also given to him but already signed before him and we’d already made an offer to Henderson before Maloney came in. Melkersen was quite widely reported as being Ben Kensells doing.

We ended up 1 position worse under Maloney than where he took us over and there was no real damage caused by Maloney in terms of signings that wasn’t going to be done by the recruitment team anyway. At worst he can be blamed for Demi Mitchell and dropping a place in the league. That’s not setting us back a couple of years at all.

[WhileTheChief..]

An "agenda" can be as simple as the desire - conscious or otherwise - to confirm your own biases and thereby look clever or ITK.

I don't understand what this means, sorry!


That's untrue from where I'm standing. For my money the strongest argument in favour of Johnson is the markedly more direct attacking brand of football he has brought to the club. Ross and Maloney were both criticised heavily for trying to play tippy tappy resulting in boring football - I noticed a change in that approach from LJ's 1st game in charge and it's been a constant feature of his tenure.
In that positive change of style and I see some hope for the future and that's the main reason I've been one of his supporters on here.

Fair enough.

I agree things are better than under Maloney but preferred things under Ross to both.

[JohnM1875]

Obviously means absolutely nothing. But interesting that LJ is second favourite with McBookie in their first manager to leave post market.

Steve MacLean 6/4
LJ - 6/1
Frankie McAvoy - 7/1

[matty_f]

Obviously means absolutely nothing. But interesting that LJ is second favourite with McBookie in their first manager to leave post market.

Steve MacLean 6/4
LJ - 6/1
Frankie McAvoy - 7/1

Who is Frankie McAvoy?

[Trinity Hibee]

Who is Frankie McAvoy?

😂 hearts ‘manager’

[Pretty Boy]

Who is Frankie McAvoy?

A guy who is 100% definitely, absolutely and completely a manager:wink:

[Trinity Hibee]

A guy who is 100% definitely, absolutely and completely a manager.

😂

[Bridge hibs]

Who is Frankie McAvoy?

Steven Naebadges boss

[matty_f]

A guy who is 100% definitely, absolutely and completely a manager:wink:

Was he Tweedle-Dum in the interview they did?

Amazing that they've gone from Chris Wilder being desperate to take the job to someone who's a total unknown pretending to be the manager of someone who is literally unqualified for the role.

[Since452]

Under Maloney we signed:

Melkersen
Rocky - loan
Mitchell
Clarke - loan
Jasper - loan
Henderson

Mueller was also given to him but already signed before him and we’d already made an offer to Henderson before Maloney came in. Melkersen was quite widely reported as being Ben Kensells doing.

We ended up 1 position worse under Maloney and there was no real damage caused by Maloney in terms of signings that wasn’t going to be done by the recruitment team anyway. At worst he can be blamed for Demi Mitchell and dropping a place in the league. That’s not setting us back a couple of years at all.

Ross's team had just pumped Rangers and made a cup final during his first and only "bad spell". The appointment of Maloney was horrendous. Wasn't just the signings (which were poor). He was a rabbit in the headlights and we were leaderless in the dugout. Also the style of play he tried to implement and coach in to the players over a disastrous 9 months or whatever it was. Pointless passing in our own half and barely a meaningful shot at goal. God knows what his plan was. etc. Johnson is far more attack minded. Takes a while to coach that system into the team and individual players after the Maloney shambles. Definitely set us back. This is Johnsons team now though so be interesting to see how he gets on.

[jacomo]

We get knocked out on Thursday and the Skyfalls in.


Not bad at the second attempt.

:wink:

[sean]

I made a similar point on the BBC podcast yesterday, I like Johnson and am happy to defend him but I'm not one for entrenched views and add the evidence grows to support a different viewpoint then I'll change my opinion accordingly.

There is mounting evidence that questions Johnson's capabilities for the role - last Thursday's debacle was just more fuel to the fire.

Last season, there is context and mitigation for some of the shockers and so I'm rejecting to just blindly lump them all into the "disasters that are the fault of Lee Johnson" pile, but as the context changes and the mitigation diminishes, his role in the disasters becomes harder to defend.

Personally agree with the above matty. I couldn’t really care who the Hibs manager is as long as he gets us where we want to be. Last season was ups and downs but by the end we started to see more of team that folk could get behind. Like all managers he has his faults, he wouldn’t be at Hibs if he was much better let’s be honest.

If we can continue to progress over the next few years finishing 3-5th most seasons with cup runs and European groups that’s pretty successful for us I think.

[Smartie]

I made a similar point on the BBC podcast yesterday, I like Johnson and am happy to defend him but I'm not one for entrenched views and add the evidence grows to support a different viewpoint then I'll change my opinion accordingly.

There is mounting evidence that questions Johnson's capabilities for the role - last Thursday's debacle was just more fuel to the fire.

Last season, there is context and mitigation for some of the shockers and so I'm rejecting to just blindly lump them all into the "disasters that are the fault of Lee Johnson" pile, but as the context changes and the mitigation diminishes, his role in the disasters becomes harder to defend.

The thing with Johnson and his weird streaks is that you go through spells where such evidence mounts and then you go through spells where that evidence then disappears.

I met up with a few mates after the home St Mirren game towards the end of the season and the general feeling was that Johnson was getting about as much as it was possible to get out of that squad. You'd think "we need to change this here" look at the bench and there was nothing there so Johnson was vindicated in his decisions to make minimal changes. Unfortunately we fell short when he was eventually forced to use more of those squad players...

I'm a wee bit concerned about this midfield and his "new way of playing" that has been referred to. He potentially has an incredibly potent first choice front line at his disposal but if he doesn't get this midfield right then we won't get the ball to them. The squad is also paper thin, leaving us incredibly vulnerable to injuries unless we do something between now and the end of the month to address this, which I don't expect.

He's been backed, so he can't really complain that there will be proportionate expectation and consequences should he fail to meet those expectations.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Ross's team had just pumped Rangers and made a cup final during his first and only "bad spell". The appointment of Maloney was horrendous. Wasn't just the signings (which were poor). He was a rabbit in the headlights and we were leaderless in the dugout. Also the style of play he tried to implement and coach in to the players over a disastrous 9 months or whatever it was. Pointless passing in our own half and barely a meaningful shot at goal. God knows what his plan was. etc. Johnson is far more attack minded. Takes a while to coach that system into the team and individual players after the Maloney shambles. Definitely set us back. This is Johnsons team now though so be interesting to see how he gets on.

Absolutely none of that set us back 2 years though.

There’s next to no lasting impact from Maloneys time. It’s nonsense to suggest that his 19 games over a less than 4 month period with no more than a few permanent signings, most of them that were going to be signed anyway, set us back 2 years.

Johnson also has a completely different style to Jack Ross. Would it be fair to say he’s set us back years as well if having a different style to implement is what set us back? Jack Ross’ legacy is also probably more prevalent in this team than Maloneys is.

I don’t think you’ll find anyone willing to argue that Maloneys time here wasn’t crap. The idea it set us back a couple of years despite there being very little legacy of Maloneys left within a couple of months of him leaving is nonsense though and doesn’t really stand up to any reasoning. Lee Johnson shouldn’t be getting any leeway at all off the back of Maloneys time, it has next to no impact on his time here.

[Smartie]

Absolutely none of that set us back 2 years though.

There’s next to no lasting impact from Maloneys time. It’s nonsense to suggest that his 19 games over a less than 4 month period set us back 2 years.

Johnson also has a completely different style to Jack Ross. Would it be fair to say he’s set us back years as well if having a different style to implement is what set us back?

I'd argue the thing that has set us back most has been the transfer policy between the start of Graeme Mathie's last window and Brian McDermott joining.

At the start of that last window we were coming off a 3rd place finish with an imperfect squad but a fantastic base to build upon.

We've sacked managers and blamed them but ultimately it has been the nonsensical waste of funds on terrible transfers of one type or another that have set us back.

Hopefully this summer we're taking our first steps back in the right direction, it certainly feels that way to me.

I don't think any of our previous managers have left a negative legacy, unless they had a massive say in the transfer business - which I don't believe.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I'd argue the thing that has set us back most has been the transfer policy between the start of Graeme Mathie's last window and Brian McDermott joining.

At the start of that last window we were coming off a 3rd place finish with an imperfect squad but a fantastic base to build upon.

We've sacked managers and blamed them but ultimately it has been the nonsensical waste of funds on terrible transfers of one type or another that have set us back.

Hopefully this summer we're taking our first steps back in the right direction, it certainly feels that way to me.

I don't think any of our previous managers have left a negative legacy, unless they had a massive say in the transfer business - which I don't believe.

Agree :agree:

[NAE NOOKIE]

And both those clubs will have fans who are expecting 3rd as well.

I've never liked the term 'accepting mediocrity' but I think we are reaching a point where there is little reason to be excusing mediocrity. If Celtic and Rangers are in a league of their own financially then I think we are reaching a point at which Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen are in a little group of 3 who are also in a different market from the other 7; in the case of Hibs someone like Vente is simply out of reach of anyone else in the league outwith those mentioned previously. There are 7 clubs who simply can't afford a £700K fee and the wages that come with that, same with Shankland at Hearts or Clarkson at Aberdeen. The same is true of several players in our squad. For the 3 of us then it really should be a little mini league for 3rd, 4th and 5th with the aim being 3rd. Obviously we will drop points over the course of the season to lesser teams but through 38 games we should be well ahead, it really comes down to who is the most consistent. Last season we were actually very good against the top 6 teams but much poorer against the bottom 6 than Aberdeen, that was the difference and it really isn't acceptable this season.

I don't think the financial gap between Hibs and Aberdeen is what it once was either. When both teams released their accounts this year the total wages weren't hugely different, certainly compared to previous years. Obviously by the nature of when accounts are released the figures are already somewhat out of date and it also has to be considered that the figure is for total wages rather than just players but 2 comparable sized clubs with comparable turnovers will spend money in broadly the same areas. More telling was Dave Cormack's comments that Aberdeen were having to spend more to 'keep up with Hibs and Hearts.' We are clearly seen by one of our rivals for 3rd as being a club who shop in the same marketplace and are genuine competition for players.

Hearts and Aberdeen have both had or are going to have huge financial windfalls from Europe. As a one off that is probably a gap that can be bridged, if either of them get that windfall twice then it becomes a bigger deal. Our aim this year needs to be stopping that and that means getting into 3rd ourselves. The ambition from within the club will be to finish higher than last season, you don't spend £1.5-2M on fees alone if you are happy to finish in the same position as before. Johnson will be under pressure to deliver this season and if he isn't then he will be replaced by someone else who the club feel is better equipped to do so.

Great summing up, can't argue with any of that.

League notwithstanding, as I've probably said before getting pumped out of the cup competitions at the first time of asking wasn't acceptable last season, it certainly can't be acceptable this. Cup runs represent a significant source of income for the club and after last season to serve up a woeful defeat at the first time of asking against a relative minnow in a competition where there is potential to make real money surely can't endear LJ to his bosses, never mind the fans. Should that cock up turn into a disaster on Thursday night LJ has to be under pressure before a ball is even kicked in the league.

Such an event would undoubtedly impact on the crowd for the first league game ... more income lost.

This club simply doesn't have competitive games it can treat lightly, either at managerial level or in the minds of the players, given LJ's alleged comment after the game in Andorra ( I remain to be convinced he said it ) but if he did it's a lesson he is not learning and in the end such complacency will lose him his job .. if it does he will have nobody to blame but himself.

Lets hope it doesn't come to that. In a lot of people's opinion a desire to stop the managerial merry go round at this club was a real factor in keeping LJ his job last year, that mindset at the club will change quickly if we continue to lose significant income through rubbish cup performances.

[007]

Obviously means absolutely nothing. But interesting that LJ is second favourite with McBookie in their first manager to leave post market.

Steve MacLean 6/4
LJ - 6/1
Frankie McAvoy - 7/1

LJ potentially sacked if we go out on Thursday. Frankie boy is only 'manager' to keep UEFA sweet so will no doubt be 'sacked'/moved role once they get knocked out.

Fair chance that will be in 2 weeks but the problem with a bet on it will be that Hearts will likely try to do it on the quiet. It will probably need Luke Sharnley to ask 3 or 4 times to tease it out of them as we know Brian McLaughlin won't try to.

[matty_f]

The thing with Johnson and his weird streaks is that you go through spells where such evidence mounts and then you go through spells where that evidence then disappears.

I met up with a few mates after the home St Mirren game towards the end of the season and the general feeling was that Johnson was getting about as much as it was possible to get out of that squad. You'd think "we need to change this here" look at the bench and there was nothing there so Johnson was vindicated in his decisions to make minimal changes. Unfortunately we fell short when he was eventually forced to use more of those squad players...

I'm a wee bit concerned about this midfield and his "new way of playing" that has been referred to. He potentially has an incredibly potent first choice front line at his disposal but if he doesn't get this midfield right then we won't get the ball to them. The squad is also paper thin, leaving us incredibly vulnerable to injuries unless we do something between now and the end of the month to address this, which I don't expect.

He's been backed, so he can't really complain that there will be proportionate expectation and consequences should he fail to meet those expectations.

I think your post brings important balance to the discussion and I'm probably guilty of just focusing on the negatives because they're contrary to my view do I think I want to make sure I'm not guilty of dismissing them but in doing so I've dismissed the evidence to support him - and there's plenty of that as well, a league derby record of a win, 2 draws and a defeat (the defeat clearly isn't a positive, but it reflects that in the league at least we "drew" with Hearts) the thumping of Celtic and hammering Aberdeen etc

I do like him, i like that he talks crap sometimes because there's an enthusiasm and a passion behind it and he clearly wants the best for the club.

[Donegal Hibby]

Well you’d certainly be an authority on things that are Tom Kite. I don’t like Johnson, I have never made up a single thing about him though.

Maybe though I'm not the one that's claiming to be ITK who's coming up with negative stories about the manager though! While you say you haven't made up a single thing about him most of what you have said there's been no other rumours from elsewhere or anything to back your claims up either .

You don't have to keep telling me you don't like Johnson I know with your comments calling him a snake and a pr**k which again there's nothing to suggest he is other than your own personal hatred towards the guy and imo they are really poor remarks from you tbh .


Aah well if you haven’t heard of many players talking negatively about him let’s just close this thread. It’s actually funny that because you haven’t heard negative talk in your opinion the rumours are incorrect. Do you know anyone who has close links to people at the club ?

I don't think many folk have heard of players talking negatively about the manager apart from yourself of course and from what I've watched of the team towards the end of last season and pre season they look like a team that get on well with a good team spirit tbh . If you want to close the thread buddy by all means though can't say I'm bothered about by it tbh .

One time yeah ex players family leave near me and knew a person who treated the entire Hibs team at one point.though the player's moved on years ago and the person's also not there now though if I did know anyone at the club I wouldn't be acting like some big shot about it tbh .

[jeffers]

Johnson wouldn't have needed such a massive rebuild if he'd replaced Ross. Appointing Maloney was a complete disaster that set us back a couple of years IMO. Hopefully we're back on the right track after a season of transition. We ended it pretty well. That said, as mentioned earlier there isn't any margin for long poor runs with the money we've spent.

Totally disagree with that. Maloney brought in a few players, some clearly weren’t good enough but we got rid of the loan players before Johnson even arrived. When you consider how many players came in last summer that weren’t good enough you’d have as much an argument for saying if we’d replaced Johnson in January his tenure set us back a couple of years. If the argument to defend Johnson regarding last summer’s recruitment is that they weren’t his signings (when some clearly were) then surely the same should be said of the players brought in under Maloney ? Yeah he wanted Henderson, as did Ross.

[Hibees1973]

Fearing the worst, if we get knocked out on Thursday Johnson has to go.

Getting knocked out by the Andorrans over two legs would represent the worst result in our history. Bar none. This also covers mitigating circumstances. For example, Hibs getting a player(s) sent off or a goal wrongly awarded to the Andorrans.

Would anyone legitimately argue not sacking Johnson if Hibs get knocked out on Thursday.

[flash]

Fearing the worst, if we get knocked out on Thursday Johnson has to go.

Getting knocked out by the Andorrans over two legs would represent the worst result in our history. Bar none. This also covers mitigating circumstances. For example, Hibs getting a player(s) sent off or a goal wrongly awarded to the Andorrans.

Would anyone legitimately argue not sacking Johnson if Hibs get knocked out on Thursday.

Or we might just win.

[Brightside]

Or we might just win.

No might about it. win by at least 3.

[Callum_62]

Fearing the worst, if we get knocked out on Thursday Johnson has to go.

Getting knocked out by the Andorrans over two legs would represent the worst result in our history. Bar none. This also covers mitigating circumstances. For example, Hibs getting a player(s) sent off or a goal wrongly awarded to the Andorrans.

Would anyone legitimately argue not sacking Johnson if Hibs get knocked out on Thursday.Look on the bright side mate

The games not stated yet

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Paulie Walnuts]

Fearing the worst, if we get knocked out on Thursday Johnson has to go.

Getting knocked out by the Andorrans over two legs would represent the worst result in our history. Bar none. This also covers mitigating circumstances. For example, Hibs getting a player(s) sent off or a goal wrongly awarded to the Andorrans.

Would anyone legitimately argue not sacking Johnson if Hibs get knocked out on Thursday.

If we lost he should be gone, but I don’t think he will be. Too much money invested this summer to completely change direction again.

That being said, I’d be stunned if we lose.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Fearing the worst, if we get knocked out on Thursday Johnson has to go.

Getting knocked out by the Andorrans over two legs would represent the worst result in our history. Bar none. This also covers mitigating circumstances. For example, Hibs getting a player(s) sent off or a goal wrongly awarded to the Andorrans.

Would anyone legitimately argue not sacking Johnson if Hibs get knocked out on Thursday.

There aren't many managers who could survive such a result. There's simply no excuse for losing to a part time club over two legs, especially when you have the second leg at home. I don't think it's going to come to that, but the fact is a woeful effort in the first leg has put us ... him ... into this position.

Guaranteed if we do fall short on Thursday this place is going to go into absolute meltdown and nobody will be spared :confused:

[Hibees1973]

Look on the bright side mate

The games not stated yet

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

Hopefully we should win comfortably.

It's just interesting to gauge opinion on here because Thursday's result will polarise each person's views on Johnson.

Some people could not forgive Jack Ross for losing a semi & final against St Johnstone.

A defeat on Thursday would mean no way back for Johnson. It would create a toxic atmosphere at the club and held against him until he left.

[WhileTheChief..]

With the league opener on Sunday, LJ won't be going anywhere if we lose on Thursday.

We'll bump our gums a bit between then and the St M game, but if we win that, I doubt there will be much more chat about Europe.

He'll be under more pressure if we win on Thursday and lose on Sunday!

[superfurryhibby]

Fearing the worst, if we get knocked out on Thursday Johnson has to go.

Getting knocked out by the Andorrans over two legs would represent the worst result in our history. Bar none. This also covers mitigating circumstances. For example, Hibs getting a player(s) sent off or a goal wrongly awarded to the Andorrans.

Would anyone legitimately argue not sacking Johnson if Hibs get knocked out on Thursday.

Trying too hard with this one.

[Since90+2]

Hopefully we should win comfortably.

It's just interesting to gauge opinion on here because Thursday's result will polarise each person's views on Johnson.

Some people could not forgive Jack Ross for losing a semi & final against St Johnstone.

A defeat on Thursday would mean no way back for Johnson. It would create a toxic atmosphere at the club and held against him until he left.

We'll go through. We'll win the game by 3 or 4 goals.

[Since452]

We'll go through. We'll win the game by 3 or 4 goals.

Yup. We beat Santa Coloma who are generally better than this lot 3-0 at home. Expecting a similar score. We were 2-0 up with 10 men as well. Obviously a couple of years ago but will be the same.

[NAE NOOKIE]

With the league opener on Sunday, LJ won't be going anywhere if we lose on Thursday.

We'll bump our gums a bit between then and the St M game, but if we win that, I doubt there will be much more chat about Europe.

He'll be under more pressure if we win on Thursday and lose on Sunday!

A bit? .... jeezo :faf:

[neil7908]

We'll go through. We'll win the game by 3 or 4 goals.

Was that not what we said before the first game? 😂😂😂

[WhileTheChief..]

A bit? .... jeezo :faf:

Well, i didn't want to come across all hyperbolic :greengrin

[Since90+2]

Was that not what we said before the first game? 😂😂😂

Personally I never, I didn't think we'd get beat but with the altitude, heat, first competitive game, small pitch ect I always thought it would be fairly tight.

I don't think that will be the case on Thursday. I think we'll win comfortably.

[Stuart93]

With the league opener on Sunday, LJ won't be going anywhere if we lose on Thursday.

We'll bump our gums a bit between then and the St M game, but if we win that, I doubt there will be much more chat about Europe.

He'll be under more pressure if we win on Thursday and lose on Sunday!

You reckon we’ll all just forget about getting knocked out of Europe by a part time Andorran team if we beat st mirren?

I doubt that. There’ll be some who do but many won’t

[jeffers]

Maybe though I'm not the one that's claiming to be ITK who's coming up with negative stories about the manager though! While you say you haven't made up a single thing about him most of what you have said there's been no other rumours from elsewhere or anything to back your claims up either .

You don't have to keep telling me you don't like Johnson I know with your comments calling him a snake and a pr**k which again there's nothing to suggest he is other than your own personal hatred towards the guy and imo they are really poor remarks from you tbh .



I don't think many folk have heard of players talking negatively about the manager apart from yourself of course and from what I've watched of the team towards the end of last season and pre season they look like a team that get on well with a good team spirit tbh . If you want to close the thread buddy by all means though can't say I'm bothered about by it tbh .

One time yeah ex players family leave near me and knew a person who treated the entire Hibs team at one point.though the player's moved on years ago and the person's also not there now though if I did know anyone at the club I wouldn't be acting like some big shot about it tbh .

Yet more bs from you. I’ve never once claimed to be ITK. I’ve said I have a couple of friends who have great contacts at ER. As you personally haven’t heard these rumours therefore they can’t be true. Who would you expect to inform you ? You’ve already been called naive by more than one poster on here and you are showing that again if you think players are going to come out publicly and slate their current manager. For someone who isn’t bothered you certainly post enough about it. What are you even on about “close the thread” ?

Again more double standards by you, you don’t need to keep coming on here and telling everyone how much you like Johnson or post links to articles which you believe puts him in a good light. It works both ways.

:faf: Big shot. Hilarious.

Just out of interest do you attend Hibs games ?

[H18 SFR]

Yet more bs from you. I’ve never once claimed to be ITK. I’ve said I have a couple of friends who have great contacts at ER. As you personally haven’t heard these rumours therefore they can’t be true. Who would you expect to inform you ? You’ve already been called naive by more than one poster on here and you are showing that again if you think players are going to come out publicly and slate their current manager. For someone who isn’t bothered you certainly post enough about it.

Again more double standards by you, you don’t need to keep coming on here and telling everyone how much you like Johnson or post links to articles which you believe puts him in a good light. It works both ways.

:faf: Big shot. Hilarious.

Just out of interest do you attend Hibs games ?

Why would a fan not come on a Hibs forum to show support towards his manager? Is it not exactly what a good fan does?

[Smartie]

I’m still a bit twitchy about Thursday.

Whilst we were rightly focussed on our own team’s shortcomings last week, they put in a decent performance. I don’t think they’re mugs.

And whilst our “on paper” first XI appears to be coming together nicely, we’re still going to need to go out and score goals (something we didn’t threaten anything like enough last week) with players like Doidge, ALF, Melkersen and McKay playing from the start, along with an experimental midfield.

I’m not counting any chickens.

[jeffers]

Why would a fan not come on a Hibs forum to show support towards his manager? Is it not exactly what a good fan does?

What ? Blindly ? Maybe we were too harsh on Terry Butcher, Colin Calderwood etc. They were Hibs managers after all.

[H18 SFR]

What ? Blindly ? Maybe we were too harsh on Terry Butcher, Colin Calderwood etc. They were Hibs managers after all.

Where did I say blindly? What’s the point re the above managers? You made reference to LJ. What is wrong with a supporter showing support for LJ?

[jeffers]

Where did I say blindly? What’s the point re the above managers? You made reference to LJ. What is wrong with a supporter showing support for LJ?

In the post you responded to the individual I had replied to appears blind to any of Johnson’s numerous flaws.

You didn’t say support to Johnson, you said why would a fan not come on a fans forum and show support to his manager, suggesting fans should show support to the manager whoever it was.

[H18 SFR]

In the post you responded to the individual I had replied to appears blind to any of Johnson’s numerous flaws.

You didn’t say support to Johnson, you said why would a fan not come on a fans forum and show support to his manager, suggesting fans should show support to the manager whoever it was.

Should fans not support the manager?

[CapitalGreen]

In the post you responded to the individual I had replied to appears blind to any of Johnson’s numerous flaws.

You didn’t say support to Johnson, you said why would a fan not come on a fans forum and show support to his manager, suggesting fans should show support to the manager whoever it was.

Whether somebody considers something a flaw or not is a subjective opinion. Just because you see something as a flaw doesn’t mean other people do and are therefore blind to it.

Some people get really het up about LJs use of management jargon for example while it doesn’t bother others. The people who aren’t bothered about it are not blind to it, they probably just don’t give a s***.

[Brightside]

Should fans not support the manager?

You are allowed to debate him though yeh? We've got players that are hibs through and through that get a hell of a lot more stick than LJ does.

[blackpoolhibs]

Should fans not support the manager?

I think fans should show support to every manager, some more than others though. Some managers do deserve to be questioned, or it would just be well done, and unlucky (insert name) for another inept performance and defeat.

[jeffers]

Should fans not support the manager?

Again I said blindly. Also if you read the post you quoted the individual I was replying said I didn’t need to keep telling him how much I dislike Johnson. I responded by saying he didn’t need to keep telling everyone how much he liked him, that it worked both ways.

Did you support Butcher and Calderwood ?

[jeffers]

Whether somebody considers something a flaw or not is a subjective opinion. Just because you see something as a flaw doesn’t mean other people do and are therefore blind to it.

Some people get really het up about LJs use of management jargon for example while it doesn’t bother others. The people who aren’t bothered about it are not blind to it, they probably just don’t give a s***.

So he’s perfect then ?

[H18 SFR]

Again I said blindly. Also if you read the post you quoted the individual I was replying said I didn’t need to keep telling him how much I dislike Johnson. I responded by saying he didn’t need to keep telling everyone how much he liked him, that it worked both ways.

Did you support Butcher and Calderwood ?

Of course I did, I’ve supported every manager since I started attending games as a child. Once the board removed them, I offered my fullest support to the next manager.

[CapitalGreen]

So he’s perfect then ?

Yeah that’s what I said 🙄

[H18 SFR]

So he’s perfect then ?

Can you see the word perfect?

[jeffers]

Of course I did, I’ve supported every manager since I started attending games as a child. Once the board removed them, I offered my fullest support to the next manager.

Fair enough. I suspect you are in the minority then if you were fully supporting Butcher towards the end of his time with us.

[jeffers]

Yeah that’s what I said 🙄

So he does have flaws ?

[jeffers]

Can you see the word perfect?

Eh ?

[H18 SFR]

Fair enough. I suspect you are in the minority then if you were fully supporting Butcher towards the end of his time with us.

What difference would it make if I was in the minority?

[jeffers]

What difference would it make if I was in the minority?

To you, absolutely nothing.

In the beginning of course, they should all start with a clean slate (though it rarely happens as far as all fans are concerned) but after time that position will be reassessed. I referenced Butcher as at the end of his tenure I don’t know anyone who was still supporting him and it’s hard to argue with that viewpoint.

[Trinity Hibee]

To you, absolutely nothing.

In the beginning of course, they should all start with a clean slate (though it rarely happens as far as all fans are concerned) but after time that position will be reassessed. I referenced Butcher as at the end of his tenure I don’t know anyone who was still supporting him and it’s hard to argue with that viewpoint.

I’d love to know of anyone still supporting butcher towards the end of his time or after that Hamilton play off. I can’t imagine any justification anyone could have had for keeping him on.

[matty_f]

Whether somebody considers something a flaw or not is a subjective opinion. Just because you see something as a flaw doesn’t mean other people do and are therefore blind to it.

Some people get really het up about LJs use of management jargon for example while it doesn’t bother others. The people who aren’t bothered about it are not blind to it, they probably just don’t give a s***.

:agree:

[Brightside]

Of course I did, I’ve supported every manager since I started attending games as a child. Once the board removed them, I offered my fullest support to the next manager.

Ha. No chance you were supporting Butcher at the end.

[matty_f]

So he’s perfect then ?

That's a bit of a leap from what they posted, chief.

[J-C]

I think we all support the manager at 1st as we don't know what they're going to be like, obviously after a while these attitudes towards them can change depending on results and style of play, what I cannot explain is when some fans support a manager even when it's patently obvious his time is up and he needs moved on for the good of the club.

[H18 SFR]

Ha. No chance you were supporting Butcher at the end.

I was at both legs of the playoff supporting my team and club.

TB was then replaced and AS got my support.

[jeffers]

That's a bit of a leap from what they posted, chief.

With regards CapitalGreen’s post aye maybe. Let’s not forget though this originally started in my response to another poster who acts as if he is perfect.

[CapitalGreen]

So he does have flaws ?

I personally think he has flaws but I wouldn’t arrogantly assume that everyone holds the same opinion as I do in what is or isn’t a flaw.

[jeffers]

I personally think he has flaws but I wouldn’t arrogantly assume that everyone holds the same opinion as I do in what is or isn’t a flaw..

That’s not what I said though.

[hibee-boys]

I fully suspect us to get the job done Thursday, not getting through would be simply unforgivable in my opinion….and I’d been an advocate of giving LJ, as a minimum, a round of games this season. Unfortunately there would be no coming back from failing to get through against a team from Andorra, especially over 2 legs.

[Wilson]

Fair enough. I suspect you are in the minority then if you were fully supporting Butcher towards the end of his time with us.

I wonder where you rank hibs currently, under Lee Johnson, in comparison with "Butcher at the end".

We are miles from that which is why I'm supporting him.

Benefit of the doubt and credit for a top six finish given our injury worries last season.

A bit of time this season to get an improved squad motoring.

Get through Thursday, progress further in the cups, and be more credible challengers for third, then he is still the man for me.

[Allant1981]

Some posters/fans have had a dislike of LJ from the very start and don't seem to have changed their minds on him, some fans do like him, what's the point in arguing about it, is it going to make a bit of difference to anyones lives what their opinion on someone is

[jeffers]

I wonder where you rank hibs currently, under Lee Johnson, in comparison with "Butcher at the end".

We are miles from that which is why I'm supporting him.

Benefit of the doubt and credit for a top six finish given our injury worries last season.

A bit of time this season to get an improved squad motoring.

Get through Thursday, progress further in the cups, and be more credible challengers for third, then he is still the man for me.

And if these things don’t happen will he still be the man for you ?

[Hibbyradge]

I think we all support the manager at 1st as we don't know what they're going to be like, obviously after a while these attitudes towards them can change depending on results and style of play, what I cannot explain is when some fans support a manager even when it's patently obvious his time is up and he needs moved on for the good of the club.

Not everyone supported LJ at the start.

I scrolled back through a few threads trying to find something about Lee Makel who is a member at the same golf club as I am, and more than one person said on the thread about the new manager that they weren't keen on him, although he hadn't even set foot in the door.

The league cup failure so soon after his appointment merely strengthened that original disapproval and then stuff about his use of English, throwing players under buses etc etc were all used to pile on.

He's not been fantastic, but the criticism he gets is over the top and often unfair.

For example, one poster stated earlier today that their mind was made up about LJ then they proceeded to post another 4 or 5 comments designed to stoke anti LJ sentiment. I think that's the type of thing another poster referred to as an agenda.

[HendoDelivered]

And both those clubs will have fans who are expecting 3rd as well.

I've never liked the term 'accepting mediocrity' but I think we are reaching a point where there is little reason to be excusing mediocrity. If Celtic and Rangers are in a league of their own financially then I think we are reaching a point at which Hibs, Hearts and Aberdeen are in a little group of 3 who are also in a different market from the other 7; in the case of Hibs someone like Vente is simply out of reach of anyone else in the league outwith those mentioned previously. There are 7 clubs who simply can't afford a £700K fee and the wages that come with that, same with Shankland at Hearts or Clarkson at Aberdeen. The same is true of several players in our squad. For the 3 of us then it really should be a little mini league for 3rd, 4th and 5th with the aim being 3rd. Obviously we will drop points over the course of the season to lesser teams but through 38 games we should be well ahead, it really comes down to who is the most consistent. Last season we were actually very good against the top 6 teams but much poorer against the bottom 6 than Aberdeen, that was the difference and it really isn't acceptable this season.

I don't think the financial gap between Hibs and Aberdeen is what it once was either. When both teams released their accounts this year the total wages weren't hugely different, certainly compared to previous years. Obviously by the nature of when accounts are released the figures are already somewhat out of date and it also has to be considered that the figure is for total wages rather than just players but 2 comparable sized clubs with comparable turnovers will spend money in broadly the same areas. More telling was Dave Cormack's comments that Aberdeen were having to spend more to 'keep up with Hibs and Hearts.' We are clearly seen by one of our rivals for 3rd as being a club who shop in the same marketplace and are genuine competition for players.

Hearts and Aberdeen have both had or are going to have huge financial windfalls from Europe. As a one off that is probably a gap that can be bridged, if either of them get that windfall twice then it becomes a bigger deal. Our aim this year needs to be stopping that and that means getting into 3rd ourselves. The ambition from within the club will be to finish higher than last season, you don't spend £1.5-2M on fees alone if you are happy to finish in the same position as before. Johnson will be under pressure to deliver this season and if he isn't then he will be replaced by someone else who the club feel is better equipped to do so.

Bang on PB.

[Callum_62]

I’m still a bit twitchy about Thursday.

Whilst we were rightly focussed on our own team’s shortcomings last week, they put in a decent performance. I don’t think they’re mugs.

And whilst our “on paper” first XI appears to be coming together nicely, we’re still going to need to go out and score goals (something we didn’t threaten anything like enough last week) with players like Doidge, ALF, Melkersen and McKay playing from the start, along with an experimental midfield.

I’m not counting any chickens.They done well to be honest but the last 15 mins we created numerous good openings

I think on the bigger ER pitch I suspect we will get enough good chances to win fairly comfortably

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

[Wilson]

And if these things don’t happen will he still be the man for you ?

I feel that he has been well backed so I'm hoping for this at least. However, I'd find it difficult moaning about the cups if we're storming to third.

Save for some early inconsistencies, while we transition in the new guys, I'm hoping for a strong showing on all fronts.

If he can't deliver with this backing then he's not the man.

[jeffers]

I feel that he has been well backed so I'm hoping for this at least. However, I'd find it difficult moaning about the cups if we're storming to third.

Save for some early inconsistencies, while we transition in the new guys, I'm hoping for a strong showing on all fronts.

If he can't deliver with this backing then he's not the man.

Agreed. He has been very well backed.

I tend to agree re finishing 3rd, as I believe your league position is typically a fair reflection of how you are as a team, but there will never be the same excitement at a lofty league finish as there would a cup win. We only need to look back as far as Jack Ross to appreciate that.

[KWJ]

If the players signed turn out to be mince, who is it that should go first - Johnson or McDermott?

[Silky]

If the players signed turn out to be mince, who is it that should go first - Johnson or McDermott?

Has to be the person who signed them, so McDermott.

[WhileTheChief..]

Agreed. He has been very well backed.

I tend to agree re finishing 3rd, as I believe your league position is typically a fair reflection of how you are as a team, but there will never be the same excitement at a lofty league finish as there would a cup win. We only need to look back as far as Jack Ross to appreciate that.

Think it depends how it happens.

If we’d pipped Aberdeen and Hearts to third in the last game or so of the season it would have felt pretty sweet!!

[SHODAN]

Some posters/fans have had a dislike of LJ from the very start and don't seem to have changed their minds on him, some fans do like him, what's the point in arguing about it, is it going to make a bit of difference to anyones lives what their opinion on someone is

There's a small subset on here who think the manager should be them and actively dislike anyone in charge after the first bad run if not the first bad result.

I was never really happy with the appointment of Johnson, and did want him sacked after the Hearts cup game, but he's redeemed himself somewhat since and I'm done with the idea of constant managerial changes now tbh. The best medicine is continuity.

[Billy Whizz]

Has to be the person who signed them, so McDermott.

Thought McDermott said at his press conference he was here to support LJ. Must be mutual decision making on the new signings

[WhileTheChief..]

Some posters/fans have had a dislike of LJ from the very start and don't seem to have changed their minds on him, some fans do like him, what's the point in arguing about it, is it going to make a bit of difference to anyones lives what their opinion on someone is

Which is the case for any manager or player, not just LJ, and yeah, ultimately our opinions on here count for hee-haw.

But we all still come on each week to chew the fat about our club - nowt wrong with that.

[Allant1981]

Which is the case for any manager or player, not just LJ, and yeah, ultimately our opinions on here count for hee-haw.

But we all still come on each week to chew the fat about our club - nowt wrong with that.

Of course not but when it's getting heated is it really worth it

[Since452]

Some posters/fans have had a dislike of LJ from the very start and don't seem to have changed their minds on him, some fans do like him, what's the point in arguing about it, is it going to make a bit of difference to anyones lives what their opinion on someone is

The last manager almost everyone liked/wanted from the start was Terry Butcher 🤣. That ended well. As long as we're winning games I couldn't care if the manager was Shaun Maloney, Rudi Skacel or Vladimir Putin.

[Hibbyradge]

The last manager almost everyone liked/wanted from the start was Terry Butcher 🤣. That ended well. As long as we're winning games I couldn't care if the manager was Shaun Maloney, Rudi Skacel or Vladimir Putin.

Steady on.

I'd draw a line at Skacel!

[Kato]

Steady on.

I'd draw a line at Skacel!Boom, tish..

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Hibbyradge]

Boom, tish..

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

I thank you.

Here all week etc...

[Smartie]

They done well to be honest but the last 15 mins we created numerous good openings

I think on the bigger ER pitch I suspect we will get enough good chances to win fairly comfortably

Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using Tapatalk

The pitch is the thing that gives me most hope that it will be different this time tbh. I’d like to think the additional space, along with Newell (and possibly Jeggo) returning to the side should see us get more of a foot on the ball and dictate the game.

Centre forward and RW concern me though and in a game where we need to be scoring goals, having the unpredictable Youan on the left as a main/ sole attacking threat gives me the fear.

[Carheenlea]

Managers are put under far more scrutiny than they once were. Sackings were quite big news back in the day, but now it’s every other week once a season gets under way.

Kind of grown weary of the mindset and tend to now get quite defensive of our managers now, treat them as one of us. Criticism from outside forces (media/opposition fans etc) is an attack on us and our club.

I prefer a siege mentality and togetherness. Lee Johnson may not be an Alex Ferguson, but he’s no Terry Butcher either. The back room team have a strategy which we are also seeing in the recruitment side. The natural thing now seems to be to almost be waiting for the next opportunity to propose managerial change.

I’d like to see someone get the chance to build something over the course of 3/4 seasons rather than be judged game to game.

[J-C]

Not everyone supported LJ at the start.

I scrolled back through a few threads trying to find something about Lee Makel who is a member at the same golf club as I am, and more than one person said on the thread about the new manager that they weren't keen on him, although he hadn't even set foot in the door.

The league cup failure so soon after his appointment merely strengthened that original disapproval and then stuff about his use of English, throwing players under buses etc etc were all used to pile on.

He's not been fantastic, but the criticism he gets is over the top and often unfair.

For example, one poster stated earlier today that their mind was made up about LJ then they proceeded to post another 4 or 5 comments designed to stoke anti LJ sentiment. I think that's the type of thing another poster referred to as an agenda.


Even though I may not want a certain manager, they always get my full support but yea I agree when a manager you're not really wanting goes on a bad run, it's easier to start having a go at him, last season's poor start never helped change peoples minds.

[McGhee]

Managers are put under far more scrutiny than they once were. Sackings were quite big news back in the day, but now it’s every other week once a season gets under way.

Kind of grown weary of the mindset and tend to now get quite defensive of our managers now, treat them as one of us. Criticism from outside forces (media/opposition fans etc) is an attack on us and our club.

I prefer a siege mentality and togetherness. Lee Johnson may not be an Alex Ferguson, but he’s no Terry Butcher either. The back room team have a strategy which we are also seeing in the recruitment side. The natural thing now seems to be to almost be waiting for the next opportunity to propose managerial change.

I’d like to see someone get the chance to build something over the course of 3/4 seasons rather than be judged game to game.

A reasonable sane post. We've got an exciting squad. Youan and Boyler alone will be worth the admission price. They will wreak havoc upon the majority of opposition defences. Let's look to build rather than focus on the short term narrow viewpoint. The Gordon's are invested, why don't we the supporters, get behind the club, as much as we can, and provide the 12th man to the club. Let's be as positive as we can be, and for Ron's sake, really support the clubs ambitions.

[blackpoolhibs]

The last manager almost everyone liked/wanted from the start was Terry Butcher 🤣. That ended well. As long as we're winning games I couldn't care if the manager was Shaun Maloney, Rudi Skacel or Vladimir Putin.

I'm glad you said almost, i questioned his appointment along with about 3 others on here.

He did have ICT punching above their weight, but everywhere else he'd been, he'd been sacked.

Never really saw it with him, and thought he was a huge risk and not worth it.

[McGhee]

I'm glad you said almost, i questioned his appointment along with about 3 others on here.

He did have ICT punching above their weight, but everywhere else he'd been, he'd been sacked.

Never really saw it with him, and thought he was a huge risk and not worth it.

I don't remember a clamour for Butcher being installed. Maybe my memory isn't what it used to be, but I certainly do not recall, the support calling on the board to hire Butcher. I'm pretty certain there would have been other more suitable managers, at that time.

[marinello59]

I don't remember a clamour for Butcher being installed. Maybe my memory isn't what it used to be, but I certainly do not recall, the support calling on the board to hire Butcher. I'm pretty certain there would have been other more suitable managers, at that time.

He was a fairly popular appointment given his time at ICT. As it turned out…..

[Real Emerald]

I don't remember a clamour for Butcher being installed. Maybe my memory isn't what it used to be, but I certainly do not recall, the support calling on the board to hire Butcher. I'm pretty certain there would have been other more suitable managers, at that time.

I think there was, if not a big clamour, there was definitely a majority of the fans that were wanting Butcher to get the job. I remember sitting in the BTG bar and Petrie was sitting down at all the tables asking who the next manager should be. I believe Butcher was the popular answer and Petrie walked out with a very smug look on his face.

[McGhee]

He was a fairly popular appointment given his time at ICT. As it turned out…..

Apologies. I just can't recall the support, calling for Butcher as their favourite choice of manager. My memory's not what it used to be though :greengrin.

[HoboHarry]

The last manager almost everyone liked/wanted from the start was Terry Butcher 🤣. That ended well. As long as we're winning games I couldn't care if the manager was Shaun Maloney, Rudi Skacel or Vladimir Putin.

That's what I recall from the time.

[Leith Green]

Has nohan kennah featured anywhere in preseason?

[CapitalGreen]

Has nohan kennah featured anywhere in preseason?

He’s on loan at Shrewsbury. Played 90 mins of their last 2 friendlies.

[Leith Green]

He’s on loan at Shrewsbury. Played 90 mins of their last 2 friendlies.

I missed that one. Season long?

[Smartie]

I don't remember a clamour for Butcher being installed. Maybe my memory isn't what it used to be, but I certainly do not recall, the support calling on the board to hire Butcher. I'm pretty certain there would have been other more suitable managers, at that time.

I remember him sitting in the stand between leaving ICT and joining us as his handy ICT side pumped our inept Hibs side, and there was pretty much unanimous agreement that if he could get us playing the way ICT played that day then we'd be fine.

History is being rewritten somewhat and whilst there was the odd dissenter, there wasn't really that much opposition to Butcher during his time with us, even up to the point where he was punching the air on the pitch at Hamilton at the end of that game.

Obviously one performance and result from there then massively changes things for Hibs and Butcher...

[WeeRussell]

I
History is being rewritten somewhat and whilst there was the odd dissenter, there wasn't really that much opposition to Butcher during his time with us, even up to the point where he was punching the air on the pitch at Hamilton at the end of that game.

Oh I dunno. I have to admit to being guilty of being very happy with his appointment (my only excuse is I genuinely didn’t realise how much of an ******** he is 😁) but surely almost ALL of us had had enough of him well before the playoff.. that run was infamously atrocious.

[Smartie]

Oh I dunno. I have to admit to being guilty of being very happy with his appointment (my only excuse is I genuinely didn’t realise how much of an ******** he is 😁) but surely almost ALL of us had had enough of him well before the playoff.. that run was infamously atrocious.

The run WAS famously atrocious but I don't remember the blame being put squarely on the shoulders of Butcher. Some of the players seemed to be taking more heat from what I remember - Liam Craig, Ryan McGivern, Michael Nelson and James Collins amongst others.

And the extent of the disaster dawned fairly late - we were going to relegation parties at Tynecastle just before the split.

[007]

Evening News predicting us as 3rd on 56 pts, Aberdeen 4th on 55 and Hearts 5th on 47. I'll take it!

(done using Football Manager so not sure how scientific an approach that would be)

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts-and-hibs-final-positions-predicted-by-football-manager-2023-4239627?page=3

[WeeRussell]

The run WAS famously atrocious but I don't remember the blame being put squarely on the shoulders of Butcher. Some of the players seemed to be taking more heat from what I remember - Liam Craig, Ryan McGivern, Michael Nelson and James Collins amongst others.

And the extent of the disaster dawned fairly late - we were going to relegation parties at Tynecastle just before the split.

Fair points, particularly your last sentence. I do remember literally for months believing any saying we won’t go down, we’ll win one game!

[Carheenlea]

I'm glad you said almost, i questioned his appointment along with about 3 others on here.

He did have ICT punching above their weight, but everywhere else he'd been, he'd been sacked.

Never really saw it with him, and thought he was a huge risk and not worth it.

My posting history will unfortunately reveal me being giddy with excitement at what was deemed to be the appointment of the stand out candidate at the time, and that was ramped up a considerable notch when we eventually confirmed the appointment of the “super-scout” boy who basically lived in his car (can’t remember his name right now) to complete a managerial dream team.


I have to say though that as petty as it sounds, when Butcher pulled that funny face in the west stand during his photo shoot for the press unveiling I was hit with the sense right then that this could be grave error of an appointment. It just wasn’t “Hibs”.

[Donegal Hibby]

Yet more bs from you. I’ve never once claimed to be ITK. I’ve said I have a couple of friends who have great contacts at ER. As you personally haven’t heard these rumours therefore they can’t be true. Who would you expect to inform you ? You’ve already been called naive by more than one poster on here and you are showing that again if you think players are going to come out publicly and slate their current manager. For someone who isn’t bothered you certainly post enough about it. What are you even on about “close the thread” ?

Again more double standards by you, you don’t need to keep coming on here and telling everyone how much you like Johnson or post links to articles which you believe puts him in a good light. It works both ways.

:faf: Big shot. Hilarious.

Just out of interest do you attend Hibs games ?

The couple of friends you have with the great contacts all seem to be supplying you with rumours that are totally one sided against the manager . Mcgeady telling the players that Johnson would throw them under the bus being one of them that I don't believe and think it's just the usual s*** - stirring as was he's lost the dressing room etc etc .

Only thing I've seen you come up with from these great contacts other than all the negativity about the manager was we were after a experienced striker you were impressed with which quite frankly wasn't impressive at all though nothing happened on that either . You did though come out with news at around 10 to 6 yesterday that Vente had signed which is better late than never considering everyone knew at that stage anyhow btw . The Titanic's sunk too btw .

You mentioned in a post earlier about closing the thread and I said I wasn't bothered wither you did . Obviously you have forgot what you posted. I'd rather be reading articles on the manager , players and football club than hearing all your contacts very negative rumours TBH.

Anyhow this is probably best left as you will end up going OTT like you did the last time in some of your remarks though I wasn't surprise by that either unfortunately.

[jeffers]

The couple of friends you have with the great contacts all seem to be supplying you with rumours that are totally one sided against the manager . Mcgeady telling the players that Johnson would throw them under the bus being one of them that I don't believe and think it's just the usual s*** - stirring as was he's lost the dressing room etc etc .

Only thing I've seen you come up with from these great contacts other than all the negativity about the manager was we were after a experienced striker you were impressed with which quite frankly wasn't impressive at all though nothing happened on that either . You did though come out with news at around 10 to 6 yesterday that Vente had signed which is better late than never considering everyone knew at that stage anyhow btw . The Titanic's sunk too btw .

You mentioned in a post earlier about closing the thread and I said I wasn't bothered wither you did . Obviously you have forgot what you posted. I'd rather be reading articles on the manager , players and football club than hearing all your contacts very negative rumours TBH.

Anyhow this is probably best left as you will end up going OTT like you did the last time in some of your remarks though I wasn't surprise by that either unfortunately.

Yet again you are wrong. One of my mates thinks Johnson is a good coach which I have already posted. Some of the other stuff came not just from my mate but a relative of a first team player. Where have I ever said Johnson lost the dressing room ?

So you didn’t rate the player we were after, therefore he can’t have been very good. From the guy who thinks we should sign Jamie McGrath. Your beloved Lee rated him, as did our new DoF, but maybe they should be contacting you before making any signings. You do also realise that just because a player doesn’t sign doesn’t mean we didn’t try to, you know like Myko ? I said that I hadn’t been on the site much yesterday when I posted about Vente, yes I should have checked the MB first.

I’ve still no idea what you are on about re closing the thread.

I note you didn’t answer my question about attending Hibs games. Do you ?

[Hibbyradge]

Jeffers and Donegal.

There's nothing to be achieved here.

Bury the hatchet guys and let's get back to supporting the good guys.

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Jeffers and Donegal.

There's nothing to be achieved here.

Bury the hatchet guys and let's get back to supporting the good guys.

Reported.

[Hibbyradge]

Reported.

Soz bro.

[HoboHarry]

Yet again you are wrong. One of my mates thinks Johnson is a good coach which I have already posted. Some of the other stuff came not just from my mate but a relative of a first team player. Where have I ever said Johnson lost the dressing room ?

So you didn’t rate the player we were after, therefore he can’t have been very good. From the guy who thinks we should sign Jamie McGrath. Your beloved Lee rated him, as did our new DoF, but maybe they should be contacting you before making any signings. You do also realise that just because a player doesn’t sign doesn’t mean we didn’t try to, you know like Myko ? I said that I hadn’t been on the site much yesterday when I posted about Vente, yes I should have checked the MB first.

I’ve still no idea what you are on about re closing the thread.

I note you didn’t answer my question about attending Hibs games. Do you ?

Some people (like me) can't attend games through geography. Doesn't mean they can't have opinions and post them.

[jeffers]

Some people (like me) can't attend games through geography. Doesn't mean they can't have opinions and post them.

I’m not suggesting your location should matter when it comes to your right to post on here, of course you should. Donegal and I have had many disagreements, but we are all Hibs fans in the end. However I speak from experience when I say your perception of things isn’t the same as when you are actually attending games. Since this is a “Johnson Out” thread, I’ll give an example. Last season we lost early on to St Mirren away. Johnson came over to the crowd and I was surprised at the abuse he was getting, he did not appear to be popular at all. Had I not been at that game I’d not have been aware of that at all.

[JimBHibees]

The pitch is the thing that gives me most hope that it will be different this time tbh. I’d like to think the additional space, along with Newell (and possibly Jeggo) returning to the side should see us get more of a foot on the ball and dictate the game.

Centre forward and RW concern me though and in a game where we need to be scoring goals, having the unpredictable Youan on the left as a main/ sole attacking threat gives me the fear.

Similar concerns here. In for a nervy night. Genuinely cannot afford to let them score hopefully Fish in and Newell back will improve both defensive and ball retention. Could do with an early goal but they will waste time and play act from minute one and cynically foul. Need to be at it and playing and passing with intensity. Want to see much more threat and some variation from the basic and dull long throws at every opportunity. You don't beat big physical teams by playing their way. Don't see us winning this comfortably and think Boyle may be a key man from the bench. Possible Doidge may start.

[Since452]

Had a dream we were 0-0 at half-time. Deary me. I'm thinking way too much.

[oneone73]

I’m not suggesting your location should matter when it comes to your right to post on here, of course you should. Donegal and I have had many disagreements, but we are all Hibs fans in the end. However I speak from experience when I say your perception of things isn’t the same as when you are actually attending games. Since this is a “Johnson Out” thread, I’ll give an example. Last season we lost early on to St Mirren away. Johnson came over to the crowd and I was surprised at the abuse he was getting, he did not appear to be popular at all. Had I not been at that game I’d not have been aware of that at all.
I was at that game, and I recall anger at the team, not just the manager. Understandable.
Iirc the week before was the Boyle derby. Johnson had played a blinder by putting Boyle in so early.
His popularity rises and falls with results. Shock horror.

[Brightside]

Interesting that Boyle was was fit to start against blackpool yet not worth risking in Europe. Although he was on the bench he was given cheerleading duties. If there was no intention of ever playing him why put him on the bench. A strange decision? Or good management? 😂

[superfurryhibby]

Interesting that Boyle was was fit to start against blackpool yet not worth risking in Europe. Although he was on the bench he was given cheerleading duties. If there was no intention of ever playing him why put him on the bench. A strange decision? Or good management? 😂

Good management.

Has Johnson not already explained why Boyle was on the bench?

[Pretty Boy]

The run WAS famously atrocious but I don't remember the blame being put squarely on the shoulders of Butcher. Some of the players seemed to be taking more heat from what I remember - Liam Craig, Ryan McGivern, Michael Nelson and James Collins amongst others.

And the extent of the disaster dawned fairly late - we were going to relegation parties at Tynecastle just before the split.

The thing with Butcher was that there was an illusion that the task at hand was simple, win 1 game out of 13. We had as good as done that when we came from 2-1 down to lead 3-2 v Motherwell in about the 3rd game of the terrible run before conceding a last minute equaliser. The truth is we were a disaster pretty much from the minute Butcher was appointed. He was appointed on the 12th November and we failed to win our first 4 league games with him in charge, won away at Dingwall in the Scottish Cup in that period with the infamous Caldwell incident, had a good run of 3 wins over Christmas including beating Hearts and then only won one more game all season. He managed 6 wins in 29 games and only 4 of them were in the league.

A huge part of the issue was apathy had set in big time. We had been scudded in 2 Scottish Cup finals in a row, had endured the Malmo debacle, had finished 7th, 11th and 10th in the preceding 3 seasons and had lost cup games to Morton, Hearts, Raith, Ross County, St Johnstone, Ayr and Kilmarnock over a similar time period. Many people wanted someone in to 'sort the players out' and I'll admit to wanting Butcher. For me it all turned when we lost 1-0 away at Dingwall on the 2nd last game of the season. I'd phoned in sick to work, went up and the performance was pitiful and the reaction at the end even worse, I suspected then we were down. Even then the fans rallied for the Killie game and after a bright start we conceded and I think everyone knew that was that. There was a thread on here in between that game and the first play off game that was really bitter and angry with a real split on whether Butcher should stay or go. I won't dig it up because I hate when people do that to prove a point with no context but there was a real split between 'go now' and 'don't be daft'. The win in the first leg bought him a reprieve but the 'Butcher get to ****' was loud and clear after the 2nd.

Even after relegation there were still a few who argued he should be allowed to get his own men in. The general anger was largely tempered as changes were already afoot at Hibs, the protest gathered a decent but unspectacular crowd and the momentum died in a matter of days. There is a real revisionism now but people were delighted that LD was appointed and most felt she did a very good job, I still think she did. I hesitate to ever say relegation was a good thing but in a parallel universe Terry Butcher kept us up, John McGinn was never persuaded to sign for Hibs and is plying his trade in the MLS, Scott Allan was dismissed as a show pony by Butcher, Jason Cumming was sent on loan to Falkirk or Raith Rovers, Ross Draper and Josh Meekings were our marquee signings and we hobbled along in the lower mid table for a few more years and haven't won the Scottish Cup for 121 years.

[Brightside]

Good management.

Has Johnson not already explained why Boyle was on the bench?

Yes. To be a cheerleader. Seems a bit of a waste of a squad position. We clearly aren’t good enough to afford cheerleader on our “roster”. I brought it up after Boyle himself talked about his frustration at being on the bench then starting against Blackpool 2 days later.

[Hibernian Verse]

Yes. To be a cheerleader. Seems a bit of a waste of a squad position. We clearly aren’t good enough to afford cheerleader on our “roster”. I brought it up after Boyle himself talked about his frustration at being on the bench then starting against Blackpool 2 days later.

Which youth player would you have taken instead? He was there so he feels part of the squad, and it's only become an issue because we got beat.

He played in an non-competitive friendly first because he hadn't played a game of football outside training since October.

Why did Arnold bother keeping him at the World Cup? .

[Brightside]

Which youth player would you have taken instead? He was there so he feels part of the squad, and it's only become an issue because we got beat.

He played in an non-competitive friendly first because he hadn't played a game of football outside training since October.

Why did Arnold bother keeping him at the World Cup? .

He wasn’t in the playing squad for Oz. He was named in our playing squad. That’s poor management win or lose. Losing does obviously magnify the decision. We shouldn’t ever be naming players in our playing squad that we have no intention of playing. And that’s doesn’t matter if it’s LJ or Jack Ross. It’s a fundamental error.

[easty]

It was technically a waste of a space on the bench, but we had 12 subs, and it made nae difference at all.

[CapitalGreen]

It was technically a waste of a space on the bench, but we had 12 subs, and it made nae difference at all.

Plus Obita and Henderson were injured so we had no other senior players in Andorra who could have taken his place on the bench.

[basehibby]

Whether somebody considers something a flaw or not is a subjective opinion. Just because you see something as a flaw doesn’t mean other people do and are therefore blind to it.

Some people get really het up about LJs use of management jargon for example while it doesn’t bother others. The people who aren’t bothered about it are not blind to it, they probably just don’t give a s***.

I quite enjoy Lee's football speak - I find it an amusing reflection of someone who's steeped in football and as a result speaks in a sort of advanced management lingo

[Brightside]

It was technically a waste of a space on the bench, but we had 12 subs, and it made nae difference at all.

If he’d played a half like he did 2 days later and we’d won……. Is that not a difference. I’d say there was potential to make a difference.

[Brightside]

Plus Obita and Henderson were injured so we had no other senior players in Andorra who could have taken his place on the bench.

Was Jair on the bench? I know that’s extreme. 😂

[CapitalGreen]

Was Jair on the bench? I know that’s extreme. 😂

Jair couldn’t be on the bench as he isn’t registered to play in Europe.

[Just_Jimmy]

The thing with Butcher was that there was an illusion that the task at hand was simple, win 1 game out of 13. We had as good as done that when we came from 2-1 down to lead 3-2 v Motherwell in about the 3rd game of the terrible run before conceding a last minute equaliser. The truth is we were a disaster pretty much from the minute Butcher was appointed. He was appointed on the 12th November and we failed to win our first 4 league games with him in charge, won away at Dingwall in the Scottish Cup in that period with the infamous Caldwell incident, had a good run of 3 wins over Christmas including beating Hearts and then only won one more game all season. He managed 6 wins in 29 games and only 4 of them were in the league.

A huge part of the issue was apathy had set in big time. We had been scudded in 2 Scottish Cup finals in a row, had endured the Malmo debacle, had finished 7th, 11th and 10th in the preceding 3 seasons and had lost cup games to Morton, Hearts, Raith, Ross County, St Johnstone, Ayr and Kilmarnock over a similar time period. Many people wanted someone in to 'sort the players out' and I'll admit to wanting Butcher. For me it all turned when we lost 1-0 away at Dingwall on the 2nd last game of the season. I'd phoned in sick to work, went up and the performance was pitiful and the reaction at the end even worse, I suspected then we were down. Even then the fans rallied for the Killie game and after a bright start we conceded and I think everyone knew that was that. There was a thread on here in between that game and the first play off game that was really bitter and angry with a real split on whether Butcher should stay or go. I won't dig it up because I hate when people do that to prove a point with no context but there was a real split between 'go now' and 'don't be daft'. The win in the first leg bought him a reprieve but the 'Butcher get to ****' was loud and clear after the 2nd.

Even after relegation there were still a few who argued he should be allowed to get his own men in. The general anger was largely tempered as changes were already afoot at Hibs, the protest gathered a decent but unspectacular crowd and the momentum died in a matter of days. There is a real revisionism now but people were delighted that LD was appointed and most felt she did a very good job, I still think she did. I hesitate to ever say relegation was a good thing but in a parallel universe Terry Butcher kept us up, John McGinn was never persuaded to sign for Hibs and is plying his trade in the MLS, Scott Allan was dismissed as a show pony by Butcher, Jason Cumming was sent on loan to Falkirk or Raith Rovers, Ross Draper and Josh Meekings were our marquee signings and we hobbled along in the lower mid table for a few more years and haven't won the Scottish Cup for 121 years.Good post.

Relegation was the best thing to happen to Hibs. There were still bumps along the road, but it lead to a total turn around in the club which was cemented by the Scottish Cup win.

If we truly maxed out the Scottish Cup win or not, is a much different debate.

Sent from my SM-G991B using Tapatalk

[Hibbyradge]

If he’d played a half like he did 2 days later and we’d won……. Is that not a difference. I’d say there was potential to make a difference.

You were criticising LJ for having Boyle on the bench when he wasn't going to play.

Now that argument has been blown out of the water, you're criticising him for not playing Boyle.

I get it. You don't like the manager and you'll use any stick to beat him with whether real or imaginary.

[Lago]

You were criticising LJ for having Boyle on the bench when he wasn't going to play.

Now that argument has been blown out of the water, you're criticising him for not playing Boyle.

I get it. You don't like the manager and you'll use any stick to beat him with whether real or imaginary.
He's not alone, it's getting tiresome.

[Crunchie]

He's not alone, it's getting tiresome.
Very :agree:

[jeffers]

You were criticising LJ for having Boyle on the bench when he wasn't going to play.

Now that argument has been blown out of the water, you're criticising him for not playing Boyle.

I get it. You don't like the manager and you'll use any stick to beat him with whether real or imaginary.

It was a valid point imo to ask why Boyle didn’t feature last Thursday. The player himself said he was fit to play a part, as evidenced by the fact he played 45 minutes two days later. Yet the manager chose not to give him any game time, while playing Melkersen instead in a position he’s shown on more than one occasion he’s totally ineffectual in.

Of course if we’d won it wouldn’t be worthy of much discussion, but we didn’t.

[Brightside]

You were criticising LJ for having Boyle on the bench when he wasn't going to play.

Now that argument has been blown out of the water, you're criticising him for not playing Boyle.

I get it. You don't like the manager and you'll use any stick to beat him with whether real or imaginary.

Thats the same thing. Having him on the bench when he wasn't going to play him, and not playing him at all are the same thing. But just so I'm clear on the LJ position on the forum. We can no longer discuss or debate any of his decision making? Boyle himself qn'd it of course but probably best if a fans forum doesn't. :aok::greengrin

[Crunchie]

Thats the same thing. Having him on the bench when he wasn't going to play him, and not playing him at all are the same thing. But just so I'm clear on the LJ position on the forum. We can no longer discuss or debate any of his decision making? Boyle himself qn'd it of course but probably best if a fans forum doesn't. :aok::greengrin
Carry that logic forward the next time Hanlon costs us a goal :aok:

[Hibbyradge]

It was a valid point imo to ask why Boyle didn’t feature last Thursday. The player himself said he was fit to play a part, as evidenced by the fact he played 45 minutes two days later. Yet the manager chose not to give him any game time, while playing Melkersen instead in a position he’s shown on more than one occasion he’s totally ineffectual in.



It might have been a valid point, but the original criticism was that he was on the bench, taking someone else's place.

When that was shown to have no merit, the goalposts were moved.

People are having a go at OUR manager for anything they can find. How he speaks, the way he throws players under mythical buses, being streaky, being David Brent, putting players on benches, not playing players.

And folk say there's no agenda!

It's ridiculous and it's unfair. If Johnson fails, he'll lose his job but the relentless attacks on him are unnecessary and wearing, and they will achieve nothing positive for our team.

[Hibbyradge]

Thats the same thing. Having him on the bench when he wasn't going to play him, and not playing him at all are the same thing. But just so I'm clear on the LJ position on the forum. We can no longer discuss or debate any of his decision making? Boyle himself qn'd it of course but probably best if a fans forum doesn't. :aok::greengrin

Don't be facetious.

[Hibernian Verse]

It might have been a valid point, but the original criticism was that he was on the bench, taking someone else's place.

When that was shown to have no merit, the goalposts were moved.

People are having a go at OUR manager for anything they can find. How he speaks, the way he throws players under mythical buses, being streaky, being David Brent, putting players on benches, not playing players.

And folk say there's no agenda!

It's ridiculous and it's unfair. If Johnson fails, he'll lose his job but the relentless attacks on him are unnecessary and wearing, and they will achieve nothing positive for our team.

You missed his teeth whitening regime.

[Hibbyradge]

You missed his teeth whitening regime.

I agree with that criticism though n :greengrin

In truth, I've never seen that said. Are you serious?

[Callum_62]

I agree with that criticism though n :greengrin

In truth, I've never seen that said. Are you serious?

indeed

plus the ridiculous aircraft he organised :greengrin

[Brightside]

Carry that logic forward the next time Hanlon costs us a goal :aok:

And as mentioned earlier he gets far more criticism that our manager does, and by many more. :aok:

[MartinDonegan]

I find I insitnctively like Lee as well, think I am in a minority. He's made mistakes and had some bad results, but the team was really bad when he joined, and since then it feels much more like a cohesive team. And it feels like I'd be highly surprised if we didn't get top six next year, and to be honest, not massively surprised if we were higher up the table, which is improing on our budget. The board clearly trust him, and to be honest the players seem to like him and feel nurtured by him, they all want to come back after all. I also find his management speak kind of funny, but he does strike me as genuine, and when he talks about Hibs I feel like he really wants the club to do well, and not just for the sake of his career, and I insitnctively like that. I sometimes wonder with him whether it's a question of accent, not as in, everyone hates him because of his accent, but at the end of the day he's a Southern English bloke, and I think maybe on that account has to prove himself that bit more. A bit like how Jessie Marsch needed to work that bit harder to be respected in the Premier league due to a nascent discomfort with his American accent. Any thoughts?

[Trinity Hibee]

Was Boyle not on the bench last week as a way of registering him for the 2nd leg? Pretty sure you can only select the same squad of 18(or whatever is it) for a 2 legged tie.

So if we hadn’t have put him on the bench last week, he couldn’t have been in tomorrows squad?

[Since452]

I find I insitnctively like Lee as well, think I am in a minority. He's made mistakes and had some bad results, but the team was really bad when he joined, and since then it feels much more like a cohesive team. And it feels like I'd be highly surprised if we didn't get top six next year, and to be honest, not massively surprised if we were higher up the table, which is improing on our budget. The board clearly trust him, and to be honest the players seem to like him and feel nurtured by him, they all want to come back after all. I also find his management speak kind of funny, but he does strike me as genuine, and when he talks about Hibs I feel like he really wants the club to do well, and not just for the sake of his career, and I insitnctively like that. I sometimes wonder with him whether it's a question of accent, not as in, everyone hates him because of his accent, but at the end of the day he's a Southern English bloke, and I think maybe on that account has to prove himself that bit more. A bit like how Jessie Marsch needed to work that bit harder to be respected in the Premier league due to a nascent discomfort with his American accent. Any thoughts?

I'm the same. I don't think you're in a minority. I instantly took to the guy. I had the complete opposite feeling with Maloney and couldn't take to him from his very first interview. It's usually the case that the minority are the loudest. That was definitely the case with Jack Ross.

[jeffers]

It might have been a valid point, but the original criticism was that he was on the bench, taking someone else's place.

When that was shown to have no merit, the goalposts were moved.

People are having a go at OUR manager for anything they can find. How he speaks, the way he throws players under mythical buses, being streaky, being David Brent, putting players on benches, not playing players.

And folk say there's no agenda!

It's ridiculous and it's unfair. If Johnson fails, he'll lose his job but the relentless attacks on him are unnecessary and wearing, and they will achieve nothing positive for our team.

Whether the goalposts were moved or not you agree it may have been a valid point to question why Boyle didn’t get some game time ?

Brightside is right it’s getting to the stage you are no longer allowed to criticise Johnson at all on this forum. I’d have questioned that decision whether the manager was Johnson, Ross or Lennon.

[Since452]

Was Boyle not on the bench last week as a way of registering him for the 2nd leg? Pretty sure you can only select the same squad of 18(or whatever is it) for a 2 legged tie.

So if we hadn’t have put him on the bench last week, he couldn’t have been in tomorrows squad?

We could register him without putting him on the bench.

[Trinity Hibee]

We could register him without putting him on the bench.

Ah ok.

[Smartie]

I find I insitnctively like Lee as well, think I am in a minority. He's made mistakes and had some bad results, but the team was really bad when he joined, and since then it feels much more like a cohesive team. And it feels like I'd be highly surprised if we didn't get top six next year, and to be honest, not massively surprised if we were higher up the table, which is improing on our budget. The board clearly trust him, and to be honest the players seem to like him and feel nurtured by him, they all want to come back after all. I also find his management speak kind of funny, but he does strike me as genuine, and when he talks about Hibs I feel like he really wants the club to do well, and not just for the sake of his career, and I insitnctively like that. I sometimes wonder with him whether it's a question of accent, not as in, everyone hates him because of his accent, but at the end of the day he's a Southern English bloke, and I think maybe on that account has to prove himself that bit more. A bit like how Jessie Marsch needed to work that bit harder to be respected in the Premier league due to a nascent discomfort with his American accent. Any thoughts?

I like him too, whilst acknowledging he makes mistakes and has presided over some truly minging results and performances.

Some of the nonsense he speaks reminds me of one of my mates, who is in the same line of work as me. He absolutely loves his work and speaks like a talking self-help book, spouting management cliches left, right and centre. We rip the piss out of him but only because we know he's able to take it, mainly because he's the most successful out of all of us by a distance.

[Brightside]

It might have been a valid point, but the original criticism was that he was on the bench, taking someone else's place.

When that was shown to have no merit, the goalposts were moved.

People are having a go at OUR manager for anything they can find. How he speaks, the way he throws players under mythical buses, being streaky, being David Brent, putting players on benches, not playing players.

And folk say there's no agenda!

It's ridiculous and it's unfair. If Johnson fails, he'll lose his job but the relentless attacks on him are unnecessary and wearing, and they will achieve nothing positive for our team.

How can it be unfair when its happened for every manager we have had?? oh and there is nothing facetious about my other post.

You've mentioned a few things there that absousltely should be discussed about any manager.

1. Throwing players under the bus. So when a manager appears to blame players and not take responsibility I don't think its wrong for that to be picked up as an issue. Players make plenty mistake but so do managers. Just accept it and say he / we learn from it.
2. Being streaky. He is. And again any manager that goes through form ups and downs will be debated. Jack out - came after a poor run of games.
3. David Brent - I couldnt care less about. But Jack did dress better. :greengrin
4. Player picks or anything tactical etc. Again something that the forum talks about all the time for any manager.

So how can talking about this stuff be an agenda when its exactly what we talk about for ALL managers? This forum has zero consequence for our Manager or Hibs as a club. Its an echo chamber of nonsense. Biased opinion that people can agree with or say its pish. Ben doesn't look in and say "OMG Jeffers wants LJ out I better get on with it". Hibs care about results not the bumping of the gums from us lot.

[jeffers]

How can it be unfair when its happened for every manager we have had?? oh and there is nothing facetious about my other post.

You've mentioned a few things there that absousltely should be discussed about any manager.

1. Throwing players under the bus. So when a manager appears to blame players and not take responsibility I don't think its wrong for that to be picked up as an issue. Players make plenty mistake but so do managers. Just accept it and say he / we learn from it.
2. Being streaky. He is. And again any manager that goes through form ups and downs will be debated. Jack out - came after a poor run of games.
3. David Brent - I couldnt care less about. But Jack did dress better. :greengrin
4. Player picks or anything tactical etc. Again something that the forum talks about all the time for any manager.

So how can talking about this stuff be an agenda when its exactly what we talk about for ALL managers? This forum has zero consequence for our Manager or Hibs as a club. Its an echo chamber of nonsense. Biased opinion that people can agree with or say its pish. Ben doesn't look in and say "OMG Jeffers wants LJ out I better get on with it". Hibs care about results not the bumping of the gums from us lot.

:agree: Spot on. I’d love to hear what my actual agenda is supposed to be and how I’m going to achieve it simply by posting on a fans message board.

The comment about throwing players under the bus, which I’ve received numerous criticism for has been shown to be true by Johnson’s very words, so not sure how that’s mythical.

[MartinDonegan]

:agree: Spot on. I’d love to hear what my actual agenda is supposed to be and how I’m going to achieve it simply by posting on a fans message board.

The comment about throwing players under the bus, which I’ve received numerous criticism for has been shown to be true by Johnson’s very words, so not sure how that’s mythical.

Was the throwing under the bus thing largely from that first time he played Fish out of position and then complained about inexperienced defense at the end? Or were there others?

That was poor, to be fair, but I can't remember him doing it regularly, and actually there have been times (like the Andorran match) where he rather held back and could have gone hard on individuals. I can't remember him regularly spearing Marshall, for instance, though he's lost us a few matches himself...

[Hibbyradge]

Whether the goalposts were moved or not you agree it may have been a valid point to question why Boyle didn’t get some game time ?

Brightside is right it’s getting to the stage you are no longer allowed to criticise Johnson at all on this forum. I’d have questioned that decision whether the manager was Johnson, Ross or Lennon.

Brightside said Boyle shouldn't have been on the bench as a cheerleader when another player could have been there calling it bad management. When that was shown to be wrong, he moved the goalposts so he could find another angle to criticise him from. That is what happened and is what I objected to.

If folk think Boyle should have played, I won't argue against that. I don't know why he wasn't used.

No longer allowed to criticise him on here? It's incessant, Jeffers.

People are even posting, again and again, about hypothetical situations that might lead to his dismissal. It's almost like they want him to fail. He's criticised for things he hasn't done and doesn't do.

He's criticised for "throwing players under the bus" and gets criticised for saying they did well when they result hasn't gone in our favour.

I won't defend him when there's legitimate reasons to question him, but it's the nature of the attacks and the clear agenda against him that I object to.

I realise that we're unlikely to agree on this though but that's how I feel.

[Hibbyradge]

:agree: Spot on. I’d love to hear what my actual agenda is supposed to be and how I’m going to achieve it simply by posting on a fans message board.

The comment about throwing players under the bus, which I’ve received numerous criticism for has been shown to be true by Johnson’s very words, so not sure how that’s mythical.

I actually wasn't referring to you when I mentioned agendas even though I know you dislike Johnson.

[jeffers]

Was the throwing under the bus thing largely from that first time he played Fish out of position and then complained about inexperienced defense at the end? Or were there others?

That was poor, to be fair, but I can't remember him doing it regularly, and actually there have been times (like the Andorran match) where he rather held back and could have gone hard on individuals. I can't remember him regularly spearing Marshall, for instance, though he's lost us a few matches himself...

There have been others, but I don’t have the time just now to go find them. Even if that had been the only occasion he did do it though as you say it was poor. I think he’s quick to distance himself when it goes wrong but will take credit if he thinks it’s a good thing - Porto in midfield, Fish scoring from a corner after claiming he’d discussed John Terry with them beforehand being two.

[Since452]

If we'd beaten that team comfortably like we should have then nobody would be talking about Boyle being on the bench. Well they may have done but they'd have been saying it was a great shout.

We shouldn't have needed our manager there to beat that side. He could have stayed at home, put his feet up and let the players sort it out between themselves and we still should have won. I'm still of the belief the players let themselves down. All other than Joe probably. The manager will obviously get the flack though. They owe him big time tomorrow. We'll see what happens.

[jeffers]

I actually wasn't referring to you when I mentioned agendas even though I know you dislike Johnson.

I thought you were D, tbh if anyone was going to accuse someone of having an agenda I thought it would be directed at me. Like I said though I’m not sure what it would be/what I’d be hoping to achieve.

[jeffers]

Brightside said Boyle shouldn't have been on the bench as a cheerleader when another player could have been there calling it bad management. When that was shown to be wrong, he moved the goalposts so he could find another angle to criticise him from. That is what happened and is what I objected to.

If folk think Boyle should have played, I won't argue against that. I don't know why he wasn't used.

No longer allowed to criticise him on here? It's incessant, Jeffers.

People are even posting, again and again, about hypothetical situations that might lead to his dismissal. It's almost like they want him to fail. He's criticised for things he hasn't done and doesn't do.

He's criticised for "throwing players under the bus" and gets criticised for saying they did well when they result hasn't gone in our favour.

I won't defend him when there's legitimate reasons to question him, but it's the nature of the attacks and the clear agenda against him that I object to.

I realise that we're unlikely to agree on this though but that's how I feel.

You’re right we won’t agree, but I respect your opinion and you’ve put your points across well.

[Hibbyradge]

I thought you were D, tbh if anyone was going to accuse someone of having an agenda I thought it would be directed at me. Like I said though I’m not sure what it would be/what I’d be hoping to achieve.

You're too high profile in your dislike of Johnson to have a hidden agenda. :greengrin

I would go as far as saying that you don't criticise him as much as maybe you used to. It's almost like you're giving him a chance.

There are others who won't.

I've said enough on this (too much probably) so I'll leave it there.

[Smartie]

If we'd beaten that team comfortably like we should have then nobody would be talking about Boyle being on the bench. Well they may have done but they'd have been saying it was a great shout.

We shouldn't have needed our manager there to beat that side. He could have stayed at home, put his feet up and let the players sort it out between themselves and we still should have won. I'm still of the belief the players let themselves down. All other than Joe probably. The manager will obviously get the flack though. They owe him big time tomorrow. We'll see what happens.

I agree.

Re Boyle on the bench - Johnson's actions during the second half of last season strongly hinted that he didn't rate many of our fringe players or youngsters. If he didn't put Boyle on the bench, he'd probably have put someone else on the bench who he had absolutely no intention of playing because he didn't think they were good enough to be called upon other than in the most dire of emergency. I reckon he thinks most of our fringe players are a significant downgrade on our first choice players, with the players behind that lot even further away from being able to contribute than those reserves. Whilst he's left trying to get a tune out of Doidge, Melkersen and co right now I can only imagine what he think of those who are behind them in the queue.

So whilst the Boyle decision looks odd, in many ways it isn't really. I also suspect Johnson didn't think we'd lose the game and for such a decision to end up coming under scrutiny.