Johnson Out

[BoomtownHibees]

3wwwwwwawwwwww

Agreed

[Hibernia&Alba]

3wwwwwwawwwwww

I agree

[Smartie]

I want him gone and have for a long time, but today didn't really add anything. Midfield and defence all looked a half hard short. 3 days rest v 4 days rest is a big difference, although I'm concerned that a days travelling to Switzerland could cause us problems on Thursday.

If I had a criticism today, it would have been that he should have given our centre mids and fullbacks a rest and challenged the understudies to step up.

I think your second paragraph is nail on head stuff.

He just doesn’t have the players he can trust to do so. If he had trusted them and it went wrong for him he’d be getting mauled worse than he already is.

[mcohibs]

3wwwwwwawwwwww

More W’s than we’ll see this season

[ancient hibee]

Where are all the posters who earlier in the week were saying next Thursday is the priority and would accept a loss today?

[J-C]

We sacked Lennon because he wasn’t good enough.

We sacked Lennon because he fell out with Leeann, George Craig and Mathie and things were said, oh and the Kamberi incident.

[WeeRussell]

Where are all the posters who earlier in the week were saying next Thursday is the priority and would accept a loss today?

I don’t think any of them said they’d “accept” it but.. what do you want from them out of interest?

[jeffers]

Many of the players are in your camp too 👍

His treatment of players and staff after the St Mirren defeat was quite staggering, nay erratic behaviour.

Someone will be on here in a minute to tell you that you’ve made that up.

[mcohibs]

Just me that sees the Thursday, Sunday thing as a bit of a ***** excuse? It’s two weeks into the season, boys shouldn’t be tiring. We’ve only played 3 euro games and had the luxury of not having played league cup yet.

[Brightside]

I still don’t think he will get fired. We will win on Thursday. We wil beat raith. But we are a team with zero identity. We appear to play with a different style every week and I don’t think we are even close to having the level of player that can do that.

[Whataball]

Not a fan of Johnson but I'll take 2 loses at start of season to progress in Europe. We'll make them up over course of the season.

[BoomtownHibees]

Just me that sees the Thursday, Sunday thing as a bit of a ***** excuse? It’s two weeks into the season, boys shouldn’t be tiring. We’ve only played 3 euro games and had the luxury of not having played league cup yet.

LJ said it was no excuse. But used it as an excuse anyway

[Hibees1973]

I am more than happy to give Johnson credit when he does well. It's just that it doesn't happen very often.

I gave him credit for being bold with his team selection on Thursday. We had to try and take some sort of lead over there. At half time I just could not see in any way we would take a 2 goal lead over to Switzerland. It was only due to a large streak of fortune against Luzern that we only conceded one goal. A complete mess by the Swiss number 6 on Thursday gifted us the third goal in the last couple of minutes.

On the evidence of what I seen so far this season there is absolutely no way we are going to concede any less than 3 goals on Thursday. It all depend on if the Swiss are as complacent again and we score one or two.

We do not have the players and Johnson does not the acumen for us to put up a solid, structured and organised defensive display on Thursday.

Think most of us can picture the scenario on Thursday. Our full backs getting caught out of possession, Hanlon & Fish pumping it up the park and our midfield getting over run and picking up loads of bookings.

I think we got lucky last Thursday. I reckon it will be a whole different story next week over there.

I hope I'm wrong.

I don't rate Johnson. He is all talk. Sooner he is gone the better.

[truehibernian]

Someone will be on here in a minute to tell you that you’ve made that up.

Aye they might indeed mate. However I don’t think texting individual players rants about where they are/were poor, and even including texts to ground staff about the pitch in the text roulette, it’s completely bizarre human behaviour let alone bizarre man management.

But I know that’ll be questioned by some.

[B.H.F.C]

Just me that sees the Thursday, Sunday thing as a bit of a ***** excuse? It’s two weeks into the season, boys shouldn’t be tiring. We’ve only played 3 euro games and had the luxury of not having played league cup yet.

No it’s not just you. Today wasn’t to do with lack of legs either. If it had have been, then it might have been understandable. But the way we went about it tactically today was nothing to do with playing 2 games in a few days. That wasn’t what made us go long from first minute to last. It was painful viewing and you could tell it was going that way from about 5 minutes in.

[Jim44]

I’ve heard, from a trustworthy source, that he is generally disliked by the playing staff. They aren’t impressed by his methodology, dislike his PR and don’t know where they stand. Apparently, the younger players feel even less secure.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I’ve heard, from a trustworthy source, that he is generally disliked by the playing staff. They aren’t impressed by his methodology, dislike his PR and don’t know where they stand. Apparently, the younger players feel even less secure.

If that's correct, there is only one outcome. Relationships can quickly break down but are much tougher to repair.

[A Hi-Bee]

Roberto Mancini has just left Italy, wonder if he would like a wee stint in Edinburgh to see if he could get this shower playing, we can but wish.

:greengrin

[Bristolhibby]

Not a fan of Johnson but I'll take 2 loses at start of season to progress in Europe. We'll make them up over course of the season.

Remember that season where we didn’t win until something daft like October?

That was shi+

J

[Hiber-nation]

No it’s not just you. Today wasn’t to do with lack of legs either. If it had have been, then it might have been understandable. But the way we went about it tactically today was nothing to do with playing 2 games in a few days. That wasn’t what made us go long from first minute to last. It was painful viewing and you could tell it was going that way from about 5 minutes in.

From what I gathered from his interview he seemed to think that we weren't able to play through the midfield due to being mentally tired so we went long. Which to me is total nonsense as it just encouraged the players to shirk their responsibilities and shell it to Doidge.

I can understand that we're having trouble getting some players up to speed but the list of caveats around this team is endless.

[Bristolhibby]

I’ve heard, from a trustworthy source, that he is generally disliked by the playing staff. They aren’t impressed by his methodology, dislike his PR and don’t know where they stand. Apparently, the younger players feel even less secure.

Looking to down tools and shift on another manager.

Not defending LJ, but can players just decide to play shi+ when they feel like it? Then turn it on for Europe, then not bother again at the weekend.

Have some professional pride. Run for every ball, pressure and look like you care. That as a minimum all professional players can do.

50/50 go for it.

Piss poor IMHO.

J

[the_ginger_hibee]

I’ve heard, from a trustworthy source, that he is generally disliked by the playing staff. They aren’t impressed by his methodology, dislike his PR and don’t know where they stand. Apparently, the younger players feel even less secure.

No idea if true or not but it wouldn't really make sense Fish & Youan coming back if he was such a poor manager to play under.

[Jim44]

If that's correct, there is only one outcome. Relationships can quickly break down but are much tougher to repair.

He definitely won’t see the season out, so, I suppose it’s up to the board to decide when to press the panic button.

[He's here!]

Where are all the posters who earlier in the week were saying next Thursday is the priority and would accept a loss today?

Would those who want Johnson out accept going out of Europe on Thursday if it guaranteed his sacking?

[jeffers]

Looking to down tools and shift on another manager.

Not defending LJ, but can players just decide to play shi+ when they feel like it. Then turn it on for Europe, then not bother again at the weekend.

Piss poor IMHO.

J

Today didn’t look like a bunch of players who weren’t trying to me.

I know it will be claimed these comments only come out after loss but the players not liking him isn’t anything new. Does it matter ? Probably not to a huge extent, but would you really run through walls for a manager you don’t trust or respect ?

[WhileTheChief..]

I could see mcinnes or Lennon being here 3-5 years

You know what you get

Both know the league

Both have worked for big clubs previously and delivered

The current manager is lost

The fact we still call on the likes of Henderson today and he’s no where near match fit sums us up

Agree with all of this.

Might not be perfect but couldn't possibly be worse than what we've got just now.

I'd stick with LJ as long as we're in Europe though. Feel like he's earned the right for that.

[WhileTheChief..]

No we never. Lennon seen right through that rat Kamberi and lost the plot when the said rat spat when walking past Lennon
Lennon would be a massive upgrade on Johnston

:top marksFinally someone else agrees with me :)

LD sided with Kamberi over Lennon. That's what caused it all and we've yet to recover.

[He's here!]

Many of the players are in your camp too 👍

His treatment of players and staff after the St Mirren defeat was quite staggering, nay erratic behaviour.

It was no worse than the way Lennon started putting the boot into players when things started to unravel for him. And in Johnson's case telling them they were lazy seemed to have the desired effect against the Swiss when they bust a gut for the entire 90 minutes.

Johnson then told them how proud he was of them and the next time they play they serve up another pitiful performance. Perhaps he should bollock them after every game?

[Northernhibee]

Agree with all of this.

Might not be perfect but couldn't possibly be worse than what we've got just now.

I'd stick with LJ as long as we're in Europe though. Feel like he's earned the right for that.

This may get a few peoples backs up, but we didn't "earn" Europe. It really irked me when LJ said that we had "another bite of the cherry" when it came to a European place after the final game of the season, as that phrase is usually used to imply that we have another opportunity through our own actions to achieve a target, where we were waiting for an outcome of a game that we had absolutely no involvement in.

If we'd beaten Aberdeen, if we'd beaten Hearts, or if we just picked up a few more points against Dundee United or St Johnstone and finished fourth, we'd have "earned" Europe. As it was, we finished in a place that was good enough because Celtic won both the league and the cup.

LJ hasn't earned the right to stay for as long as we're in Europe, he's got to get a minimum standard of performance from the team and irregardless of where your base level for that lies, he's missed it two weekends in a row.

[WhileTheChief..]

Where are all the posters who earlier in the week were saying next Thursday is the priority and would accept a loss today?

Right here.

Didn't expect anything form today's game and don't think LJ will go anywhere.

Still think he should be replaced as soon as we're out of Europe before more damage is done in the league.

[He's here!]

Today didn’t look like a bunch of players who weren’t trying to me.

I know it will be claimed these comments only come out after loss but the players not liking him isn’t anything new. Does it matter ? Probably not to a huge extent, but would you really run through walls for a manager you don’t trust or respect ?

It's no secret Pat Stanton and Eddie Turnbull never saw eye to eye but it didn't affect Stanton's performances which were more often than not of the run through a brick wall for Hibs variety.

[WhileTheChief..]

I’ve heard, from a trustworthy source, that he is generally disliked by the playing staff. They aren’t impressed by his methodology, dislike his PR and don’t know where they stand. Apparently, the younger players feel even less secure.

Easy to believe.

It's impossible to understand what he wants or means. No way the players can follow him or are motivated by him. I picture them all rolling their eyes or staring at the floor when he talks. He's our Cathro.

[A Hi-Bee]

Get Lennon in tomorrow if he was up for it, :taxi for Johnson

[WhileTheChief..]

Would those who want Johnson out accept going out of Europe on Thursday if it guaranteed his sacking?

If we win on Thursday and we get past Villa, I'd give him the season unless we were close to relegation. I'd enjoy the Euro games till January.

[Jim44]

No idea if true or not but it wouldn't really make sense Fish & Youan coming back if he was such a poor manager to play under.

Players don’t always come to a club because of the manager, Let’s face it, our club’s record and reputation is attractive, the club’s infrastructure seems good and Edinburgh is not too shabby a city to live in.

[Stanton Spence]

Would those who want Johnson out accept going out of Europe on Thursday if it guaranteed his sacking?

Stupid question as I don’t think any true hibs fan would ever hope the team loses against anyone because they dislike the manager and if they do they ain’t football fans

[WhileTheChief..]

This may get a few peoples backs up, but we didn't "earn" Europe. It really irked me when LJ said that we had "another bite of the cherry" when it came to a European place after the final game of the season, as that phrase is usually used to imply that we have another opportunity through our own actions to achieve a target, where we were waiting for an outcome of a game that we had absolutely no involvement in.

If we'd beaten Aberdeen, if we'd beaten Hearts, or if we just picked up a few more points against Dundee United or St Johnstone and finished fourth, we'd have "earned" Europe. As it was, we finished in a place that was good enough because Celtic won both the league and the cup.

LJ hasn't earned the right to stay for as long as we're in Europe, he's got to get a minimum standard of performance from the team and irregardless of where your base level for that lies, he's missed it two weekends in a row.

Fair do's.

Just didn't want to pile on too hard this week as I felt I was over the top before Thursday. Should have stuck with my original thoughts :greengrin

[Northernhibee]

Fair do's.

Just didn't want to pile on too hard this week as I felt I was over the top before Thursday. Should have stuck with my original thoughts :greengrin

I've honestly never been so fickle over a manager. Fluttered between thinking he's brilliant and his Brentisms being quite endearing to raging about how poor we've been.

Ultimately, it's not healthy for the club, the support, or the players for us to be so wildly inconsistent at all.

[jeffers]

Stupid question as I don’t think any true hibs fan would ever hope the team loses against anyone because they dislike the manager and if they do they ain’t football fans

It’s not about hoping they lose because they dislike the manager it’s about accepting a defeat for the greater good. I’ve seen, as has every other Hibs fan, us lose hundreds of games. One more won’t make any difference. I still hope we get through on Thursday though.

[BoomtownHibees]

Would those who want Johnson out accept going out of Europe on Thursday if it guaranteed his sacking?

Surely nobody answers yes to this

[B.H.F.C]

From what I gathered from his interview he seemed to think that we weren't able to play through the midfield due to being mentally tired so we went long. Which to me is total nonsense as it just encouraged the players to shirk their responsibilities and shell it to Doidge.

I can understand that we're having trouble getting some players up to speed but the list of caveats around this team is endless.

There’s going long then there is what we did today. We made no attempt to play whatsoever. I thought we’d change when we made the subs at half time but we didn’t at all. Boyle came on and we never passed him the ball at all.

I really can’t get my head round how we tried to play today. We’re no exactly Brazil but I thought the approach was dreadful.

[mcohibs]

I don’t think that we’d be worse off if Johnson was to go. If he walked tomorrow or was punted I’d feel completely indifferent.

What I do believe is that we actually have a strong squad capable of performing to a higher level than we are and capable of challenging for third this year.

What I think ultimately may hinder that is our inconsistencies which have beeen all too prevalent in Johnson’s tenure so far.

I also think that the board will be quicker to react than people are suggesting of things aren’t going well. We’ve spent big and can’t afford to not get Europe this season.

[Stanton Spence]

It’s not about hoping they lose because they dislike the manager it’s about accepting a defeat for the greater good. I’ve seen, as has every other Hibs fan, us lose hundreds of games. One more won’t make any difference. I still hope we get through on Thursday though.

I get what you’re saying jeffers but I could never hope to see hibs lose especially in a European or domestic cup tie no matter how bad the manager is even hypothetically
I think it’s just a matter of time now anyway and I’m not usually one for wanting to sack managers but today was the straw that broke the camels back for me and it’s going to take some turnaround for him to keep his job now even if we do go through this round


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Wilson]

Would those who want Johnson out accept going out of Europe on Thursday if it guaranteed his sacking?

I don't think it would. We're not European stalwarts expected to go far. If we don't lose out on Thursday most people have us beat in the next round anyway. He'd need to also lose the Raith game and perhaps another couple of league games before the club pulled the trigger.

I'm hoping we get through on Thursday. We're due to turn up on a Sunday so hopefully get the job done against Raith. Then I'd like to see where we're sitting points wise after a full round of league fixtures.

[Jim44]

Surely nobody answers yes to this

No real Hibs supporter would say ‘yes’. Of course we want to go into the next round, but, at the same time, a lot of us don’t want a positive result to see us lumbered with a manager who is taking us nowhere.

[BoomtownHibees]

No real Hibs supporter would say ‘yes’. Of course we want to go into the next round, but, at the same time, a lot of us don’t want a positive result to see us lumbered with a manager who is taking us nowhere.

Bit confused here, so do you want us to win or no? Every Hibs supporter should want us to get through on Thursday, regardless of their thoughts on the manager

[flash]

We never play the same way twice in a row.

Almost without fail we have to make a couple of changes at half time if not before.

The post match interviews are often rambling and contradictory not to mention he rarely takes responsibility for anything.

We have spent, by our standards, serious money yet are still lacking in several positions.

There's little doubt it's time for a change and it has to be sooner rather than later.

[jeffers]

I get what you’re saying jeffers but I could never hope to see hibs lose especially in a European or domestic cup tie no matter how bad the manager is even hypothetically
I think it’s just a matter of time now anyway and I’m not usually one for wanting to sack managers but today was the straw that broke the camels back for me and it’s going to take some turnaround for him to keep his job now even if we do go through this round


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Agree with all of that. I want us to win on Thursday as I said but if we do lose I’d prefer it to be by a margin that forces the board to act. If the past year is any indication we will never get any consistency from him, so as you say it’s only a matter of time.

[B.H.F.C]

Agree with all of that. I want us to win on Thursday as I said but if we do lose I’d prefer it to be by a margin that forces the board to act. If the past year is any indication we will never get any consistency from him, so as you say it’s only a matter of time.

Over his time he managed to fail to win fairly consistently now.

In all seriousness though, the first two performances in the league have been dreadful. Chuck in the game over in Andorra. We shouldn’t be performing in that manner as often. Think we all accept we’ll lose games and not play well at times. But the manner of some of these performances is as bad as we’ve seen under anyone.

[One Day Soon]

We never play the same way twice in a row.

Almost without fail we have to make a couple of changes at half time if not before.

The post match interviews are often rambling and contradictory not to mention he rarely takes responsibility for anything.

We have spent, by our standards, serious money yet are still lacking in several positions.

There's little doubt it's time for a change and it has to be sooner rather than later.

Still lacking in several positions also raises serious questions about what the DoF is doing.

[bingo70]

We never play the same way twice in a row.

Almost without fail we have to make a couple of changes at half time if not before.

The post match interviews are often rambling and contradictory not to mention he rarely takes responsibility for anything.

We have spent, by our standards, serious money yet are still lacking in several positions.

There's little doubt it's time for a change and it has to be sooner rather than later.

That’s it.

It’s not just the losing today, although to some it might be, for me, I just can’t see what the plan is at all. It’s gone entirely as I thought it would before the season started. Our midfield are too far from our creative players and the team is disjointed.

[Jim44]

Bit confused here, so do you want us to win or no? Every Hibs supporter should want us to get through on Thursday, regardless of their thoughts on the manager

Of course I want us to win. My point was that a positive result would be tainted by the thought that it could buy LJ a bit more time, which is not in the interest of the club. Sorry for the ambiguity.

[The Spaceman]

I’m sadly tipping into this camp as well. Utterly dejected after both todays game and St Mirren. Two atrocious performances. It’s really annoying, as Luzern at ER was a fabulous result and LJ deserves credit for his bravery. I just feel he’s had far too many games/streaks to save his job. He’s lost a good chunk of our fans, and not convinced as a fan base we ever really warmed to him in the first place. Would love to be proven wrong, but I’m not convinced LJ will go on to manage a bigger club than Hibs.

[J-C]

If we win on Thursday and we get past Villa, I'd give him the season unless we were close to relegation. I'd enjoy the Euro games till January.

This has to be a wind up, no matter how poor Villa were they are still miles ahead of us, they finished 7th last season ffs.

[jeffers]

Over his time he managed to fail to win fairly consistently now.

In all seriousness though, the first two performances in the league have been dreadful. Chuck in the game over in Andorra. We shouldn’t be performing in that manner as often. Think we all accept we’ll lose games and not play well at times. But the manner of some of these performances is as bad as we’ve seen under anyone.

:agree: Fair play to anyone who still backs him but even his biggest fan must have concerns about his ability to deliver any form of consistency. This season so far is just a repeat of the last 12 months under him. There is nothing to suggest that will ever change. We started last season totally under prepared and the excuses were made about the signings not being his, yet we’ve backed him considerably and have started this season looking every bit as underprepared if not worse.

Time we got shot of him and trust BM to appoint a replacement who can get more out of the talented players we do have at our disposal.

[B.H.F.C]

That’s it.

It’s not just the losing today, although to some it might be, for me, I just can’t see what the plan is at all. It’s gone entirely as I thought it would before the season started. Our midfield are too far from our creative players and the team is disjointed.

Same for me. Before a ball was kicked I didn’t have any confidence that he would have an organised, consistent team under him. Nothing I have seen has changed my mind.

We have players who can do the most difficult part of the game at the top end of the park. But a competent manager gets you organised at the other end of the park, even without the best players in the world, but Johnson seems to just completely neglect that side of things.

[southern hibby]

Read on here several times about identity…..

I’ll take it one stage further….,

Today who was our box to box midfielder? Who was our creative mid as I never had a clue genuinely who it was suppose to be?
You could say it was suppose to be Newell but as we punted the ball forward at every opportunity it didn’t seem like it.

I’m at my wits end trying to understand his pathetic game plans because it’s night and day from Thursdays performance.

INFACT I’m probably going to get ridiculed for saying this but genuinely what was our formation as it just seemed to be all over the place?

Should LJ go? I’m in the yes camp and I can honestly say that I don’t think he can turn it around and I’m beginning to think that I really don’t want him too, as I’m rather scared that if he does it’s just a case of when ( not if ) it will happen again.

GGTTH

[JimBHibees]

Think the way we played today was as bad as I have seen in years. Don't think we tried to play out from the back from a goal kick all game. Assuming Lewis was told to launch to Doidge all game. No attempt at passing through the pitch which is a shocking indictment imo. Think we did the same away to Inter also. Lack of bravery on the ball was tortuous. Got exactly what we deserved. Ptitful performance

[JimBHibees]

Read on here several times about identity…..

I’ll take it one stage further….,

Today who was our box to box midfielder? Who was our creative mid as I never had a clue genuinely who it was suppose to be?
You could say it was suppose to be Newell but as we punted the ball forward at every opportunity it didn’t seem like it.

I’m at my wits end trying to understand his pathetic game plans because it’s night and day from Thursdays performance.

INFACT I’m probably going to get ridiculed for saying this but genuinely what was our formation as it just seemed to be all over the place?

Should LJ go? I’m in the yes camp and I can honestly say that I don’t think he can turn it around and I’m beginning to think that I really don’t want him too, as I’m rather scared that if he does it’s just a case of when ( not if ) it will happen again.

GGTTH

Agree we basically had no midfield second half

[The Modfather]

A matter of when, not if, he’s sacked IMO. Hope we’ve began discreetly sounding out new managers and McDermot is putting together a template and principles for a new manager to buy into.

[B.H.F.C]

Agree we basically had no midfield second half

Honestly wouldn’t have mattered who was in midfield today. Not when our only tactic was to lump the ball 40 yards over their heads in the general direction of Doidge.

If we continue with Johnson, the likes of Levitt will be ruined and just end up similar to the majority of our midfielders (who he has a lot more talent than). Someone else signed without any apparent plan as to how we get the best from him.

[B.H.F.C]

A matter of when, not if, he’s sacked IMO. Hope we’ve began discreetly sounding out new managers and McDermot is putting together a template and principles for a new manager to buy into.

Said the same walking out the game today. My fear is that the ‘when’ will still be some way away and we’ll still have a considerable number of games like today to endure, with the odd good one chucked in to keep him in a job.

[ScottB]

Said the same walking out the game today. My fear is that the ‘when’ will still be some way away and we’ll still have a considerable number of games like today to endure, with the odd good one chucked in to keep him in a job.

Ultimately if we win in Europe and the Cup he’ll be around awhile yet. Defeat, especially in the Cup, and he might be gone a lot quicker.

[Nicho87]

Win in Europe or not

If your pish in the league unless we’re winning against villa the writing is going to be on the wall with current form and style

He’s struggling

It’s inevitable

[B.H.F.C]

Ultimately if we win in Europe and the Cup he’ll be around awhile yet. Defeat, especially in the Cup, and he might be gone a lot quicker.

I’m no sure defeat in Europe would make much difference in the eyes of the board. Defeat to Raith might, but I’m still not convinced.

Ultimately, I think his time with us will rumble on in a similar manner, with him picking up a win here and there to keep him safe, for a while yet.

[JohnM1875]

I’m no sure defeat in Europe would make much difference in the eyes of the board. Defeat to Raith might, but I’m still not convinced.

Ultimately, I think his time with us will rumble on in a similar manner, with him picking up a win here and there to keep him safe, for a while yet.

Same. Think he has one of the safest gigs going just now.

I'm done with him, don't think he's he's good enough to take us forward and want him gone. But think the board have backed him and will give home til at least new year.

[JohnM1875]

Just watched his post match interview there and he's moaning about us playing it long to Doidge too often and too early. Surely the players have been told to do that? If not then it's his job to get the message across to pack it in.

[Jim44]

Just watched his post match interview there and he's moaning about us playing it long to Doidge too often and too early. Surely the players have been told to do that? If not then it's his job to get the message across to pack it in.

He is absolutely useless. He’ll win a few games to keep the die-hards rooting for him, but eventually the end will come…….. I just hope it’s not too late to keep us in a safe position in the le@gue.

[Slim Shady]

Read on here several times about identity…..

I’ll take it one stage further….,

Today who was our box to box midfielder? Who was our creative mid as I never had a clue genuinely who it was suppose to be?
You could say it was suppose to be Newell but as we punted the ball forward at every opportunity it didn’t seem like it.

I’m at my wits end trying to understand his pathetic game plans because it’s night and day from Thursdays performance.

INFACT I’m probably going to get ridiculed for saying this but genuinely what was our formation as it just seemed to be all over the place?

Should LJ go? I’m in the yes camp and I can honestly say that I don’t think he can turn it around and I’m beginning to think that I really don’t want him too, as I’m rather scared that if he does it’s just a case of when ( not if ) it will happen again.

GGTTH

Who was our box to box midfielder?

They had a 16 year playing today in midfield. 16 year old and he was the laddie who played the pass for the 2nd goal.

[bingo70]

Just watched his post match interview there and he's moaning about us playing it long to Doidge too often and too early. Surely the players have been told to do that? If not then it's his job to get the message across to pack it in.

Said it elsewhere but with the midfielders we had on the pitch after half time it was the only option they had as there was nobody to link midfield to attack. It’s all very well saying it’s the players fault for doing x,y or z wrong but looking at the personnel he had left on the pitch after half time I don’t really know how he expected different.

Thursday will be a different game entirely and hopefully it suits the players we have better but taking todays game in isolation, I don’t get how he can take Levitt off and then complain our midfield didn’t make more accurate attacking passes.

[allezsauzee]

If he gets punted, hopefully it's to enable the glorious return of Neil Francis Lennon.:nlgwa

[JohnM1875]

Said it elsewhere but with the midfielders we had on the pitch after half time it was the only option they had as there was nobody to link midfield to attack. It’s all very well saying it’s the players fault for doing x,y or z wrong but looking at the personnel he had left on the pitch after half time I don’t really know how he expected different.

Thursday will be a different game entirely and hopefully it suits the players we have better but taking todays game in isolation, I don’t get how he can take Levitt off and then complain our midfield didn’t make more accurate attacking passes.

We were doing it pretty much from kick off though. With our best midfielder (Newell) and a player we just paid money for (Levitt). We won't have a much better midfield than that.

[NAE NOOKIE]

If he gets punted, hopefully it's to enable the glorious return of Neil Francis Lennon.:nlgwa

I think that would be rather misguided. Neil was ok at getting us up for some of the bigger games, but towards the end we were pretty poor and it became more and more noticeable the number of times he changed tactics and personnel early in games, in fact doing exactly the same thing Johnson is getting pelters for now and with the same result I might add.

Neil Lennon will never manage this club again, move on mate.

[pacorosssco]

It's early in season but really what has he shown to prove he can move us forward. He looks like just here for another pay out. Where will he go next. Kensell should follow him

[Cat Stanton]

If he gets punted, hopefully it's to enable the glorious return of Neil Francis Lennon.:nlgwa

Gies peace. Lennon signed off with an even worse performance at Fir Park - and that is saying an awful lot.

Johnson is abysmal. But so was Lennon at the end.

[Stuart93]

I’d take mcinnes. I wasn’t keen but he’d definitely tighten us up defensively.

With the attacking players we have (which I think are pretty good) you’ve always got a chance if you’re able to keep it tight at the back

[Stanton Spence]

I think that would be rather misguided. Neil was ok at getting us up for some of the bigger games, but towards the end we were pretty poor and it became more and more noticeable the number of times he changed tactics and personnel early in games, in fact doing exactly the same thing Johnson is getting pelters for now and with the same result I might add.

Neil Lennon will never manage this club again, move on mate.
He’s really not the answer and it’s no coincidence that he’s a pundit now and not a manager

[matty_f]

It is silly, but if we lose on Sunday the same folk ranting and raving after last Sunday's shambles will have quickly forgotten tonight and will be demanding change again. And it'll happen after every defeat, even if that defeat is on the back of a good run.

And if we win on Thursday folk will be demanding he gets more time.

[Stuart93]

And if we win on Thursday folk will be demanding he gets more time.

It’ll most likely go that way until the club decide that we aren’t really going anywhere

I reckon today was one of the worst I’ve seen us under LJ. We were utter clueless. Hopeful punts forward constantly and zero build up play

[matty_f]

It’ll most likely go that way until the club decide that we aren’t really going anywhere

I reckon today was one of the worst I’ve seen us under LJ. We were utter clueless. Hopeful punts forward constantly and zero build up play

Agreed. Either the club need to call time on him or he finds a way to string at least 3 or 4 consecutive wins together otherwise every defeat is going to spark the same reaction.

Folk are fed up watching these performances - I know I am, at least. The very simple solution is either for Johnson to get it sorted or for Hibs to get rid.

[Since452]

I think that would be rather misguided. Neil was ok at getting us up for some of the bigger games, but towards the end we were pretty poor and it became more and more noticeable the number of times he changed tactics and personnel early in games, in fact doing exactly the same thing Johnson is getting pelters for now and with the same result I might add.

Neil Lennon will never manage this club again, move on mate.

What did he leave with again? Two wins in 15 games or something like that? Some of the worst football I've seen and with a better squad than we have now. Instant improvement when he left. If Lennon came back I'd genuinely fancy us for the drop.

[Since90+2]

If honestly get rid of now and put McDermott in charge. He already knows the club and players and has a better pedigree than LJ.

[flash]

If he gets punted, hopefully it's to enable the glorious return of Neil Francis Lennon.:nlgwa

Bit too Celtc for my liking this full name pish.

[Since452]

Bit too Celtc for my liking this full name pish.

Something inside so strong ☘️

[greenpaper55]

L J seemed to say that playing two games a week is to much for some players just now, how was it that last season playing just at the weekends we got the same sort of performances from the team ? The mans a slaver who will blame everyone bar himself for inferior performances.

[Brightside]

What did he leave with again? Two wins in 15 games or something like that? Some of the worst football I've seen and with a better squad than we have now. Instant improvement when he left. If Lennon came back I'd genuinely fancy us for the drop.

Agreed. Lennon is not the answer. Hibs fans really need to decide what type of manager they want though. Consistency can often be boring just because you’ll set a team up to be hard to break down. I’ve no issue with that but this forum would then be full of “turgid” comments. LJ does have some pretty good displays out of this team but then the others are as bad as you can get with zero style or even resistance.
So when Ben goes for the next manager let’s ensure it’s a guy who starts from the back, makes us a solid unit and then uses the most expensive front line we’ve had to our best advantage (ie not punting the ball up).
As for the rest of the season. Play 4231 and stick to it.

[bingo70]

L J seemed to say that playing two games a week is to much for some players just now, how was it that last season playing just at the weekends we got the same sort of performances from the team ? The mans a slaver who will blame everyone bar himself for inferior performances.

Far too much emphasis being put on this playing twice a week stuff, he’s probably talking the players in to being exhausted he goes on about it so much.

There will come a time when it puts a strain on them but I struggle to believe that’s an issue in the middle of August when we’ve had one tough Thursday game.

I get why playing after travelling to Andorra would maybe take its toll but we never had a proper game that weekend, the home game against them wouldn’t have had any impact I wouldn’t have thought.

If they genuinely are struggling already I think it really brings into question the preparation for the season.

English championship sides play midweek and at the weekend nearly all season, he can’t really think we can’t manage two weeks of it surely?!

[Paulie Walnuts]

What did he leave with again? Two wins in 15 games or something like that? Some of the worst football I've seen and with a better squad than we have now. Instant improvement when he left. If Lennon came back I'd genuinely fancy us for the drop.

Whilst I don’t disagree I find it interesting that his bad run towards the end is enough to put you off him yet you’re one of the most vocal regarding Jack Ross and how it was a sin to sack him despite us also ended on a horror run similar to Lennons under him. Lennon won us the Championship, got to Hampden, got our record points total in the league, a record that’s still outstanding and probably had the best team to watch in my lifetime.

I wouldn’t go near Lennon either btw.

[GloryGlory]

Far too much emphasis being put on this playing twice a week stuff, he’s probably talking the players in to being exhausted he goes on about it so much.

There will come a time when it puts a strain on them but I struggle to believe that’s an issue in the middle of August when we’ve had one tough Thursday game.

I get why playing after travelling to Andorra would maybe take its toll but we never had a proper game that weekend, the home game against them wouldn’t have had any impact I wouldn’t have thought.

If they genuinely are struggling already I think it really brings into question the preparation for the season.

English championship sides play midweek and at the weekend nearly all season, he can’t really think we can’t manage two weeks of it surely?!

This. The schedule for the start of the season was known well in advance. The team should have been ready and prepared for two games a week right from the off. Using the games against the Andorran side as essentially pre season warm ups was a dreadful mistake and poor planning.

And it is worthwhile noting that modern football is now to all intents and purposes a two games a week sport, so there is no excuse for lack of physical preparation.

[Greenio]

He wont get sacked until it's no longer in the best interest of the club for him to be manager.

I get the reactions are a response to losing games which no-one likes but think about the context.

Do we want to build a sustainable team and culture? Yes, undeniably
Has he shown signs if improvements in his first season in charge? Yes, undeniably
Has the period of poor form been continuous/prolonged? No, undeniably
Are we in a rebuilding phase? Yes, undeniably

Having a strategy as a club is essential, and strategy is as much about what you dont do as what you do.

People go for what seems easiest - sack him, get someone else - its short term thinking.

I'm sick to death of undoing work and starting again, it's wasteful, expensive and rarely ever achieves what you think it will.

We get to October, if his win ratio is not hitting around 40/50%, if we're consistently putting in poor performances, if we're outside the 6 - then yeah, maybe the benefits of getting a new manager in, outweighs the risk of keeping the current one.

Until then, no. We don't.

[One Day Soon]

He wont get sacked until it's no longer in the best interest of the club for him to be manager.

I get the reactions are a response to losing games which no-one likes but think about the context.

Do we want to build a sustainable team and culture? Yes, undeniably
Has he shown signs if improvements in his first season in charge? Yes, undeniably
Has the period of poor form been continuous/prolonged? No, undeniably
Are we in a rebuilding phase? Yes, undeniably

Having a strategy as a club is essential, and strategy is as much about what you dont do as what you do.

People go for what seems easiest - sack him, get someone else - its short term thinking.

I'm sick to death of undoing work and starting again, it's wasteful, expensive and rarely ever achieves what you think it will.

We get to October, if his win ratio is not hitting around 40/50%, if we're consistently putting in poor performances, if we're outside the 6 - then yeah, maybe the benefits of getting a new manager in, outweighs the risk of keeping the current one.

Until then, no. We don't.

As Mike Tyson once said, everyone has a plan until you get punched in the face. Whatever the ‘strategy’ is, it isn’t working - undeniably.

There is no improvement, just inconsistent bobbing up and down. His team doesn’t look any fitter, any more coherent, any better balanced, any more resilient, any better a balanced squad, any clearer a playing style, anywhere near able to play the high-tempo high-press game he himself promised or anything like either a tough to beat team or an attractive free flowing football side. He’s not got it, let’s stop pretending otherwise.

[I'm Spartacus]

He wont get sacked until it's no longer in the best interest of the club for him to be manager.

I get the reactions are a response to losing games which no-one likes but think about the context.

Do we want to build a sustainable team and culture? Yes, undeniably
Has he shown signs if improvements in his first season in charge? Yes, undeniably
Has the period of poor form been continuous/prolonged? No, undeniably
Are we in a rebuilding phase? Yes, undeniably



Point 1. How does LJ currently contribute positively to that sustainable team and culture?
Point 2. Really? I don't see any difference. He arrived with the nickname Streaky Lee and there's nothing to suggest that's undeserved.
Point 3. 3 wins in the last 13 games.
Point 4. That's 15 months in charge, 'Rome wasn't built in a day', but I bet they had most of it done in 15 months!

[#2 Double Tap]

We haven’t improved Greenio, it’s just more of the same or worse imo.

What has improved in your opinion?

I think the gk and def has gotten weaker, the midfield is probably a little worse, possibly on a par, the left winger improved, after 3 or 4 attempts, the striker, possibly…..he has signed a ton of players who ain’t good enough, it’s really poor stuff.

[Northernhibee]

Whilst I don’t disagree I find it interesting that his bad run towards the end is enough to put you off him yet you’re one of the most vocal regarding Jack Ross and how it was a sin to sack him despite us also ended on a horror run similar to Lennons under him.

I wouldn’t go near Lennon either btw.
The things that LJ gets ripped to shreds for are quite often things Lennon was guilty of too. Being front and centre when we win but attributing blame elsewhere when we lose too often - check. Team selection bingo with players out of position - check. The good being excellent bit the bad being unwatchable - check.

Without the feel good factor of a recent cup win and having the best midfield in Scotland to select, I think that Neil Lennon would grate very quickly indeed.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Point 1. How does LJ currently contribute positively to that sustainable team and culture?
Point 2. Really? I don't see any difference. He arrived with the nickname Streaky Lee and there's nothing to suggest that's undeserved.
Point 3. 3 wins in the last 13 games.
Point 4. That's 15 months in charge, 'Rome wasn't built in a day', but I bet they had most of it done in 15 months!

I hadn’t really considered how bad our record was in the league. After all the chat about how good we were at the end of last season that is really telling.

[Willis1875]

I hadn’t really considered how bad our record was in the league. After all the chat about how good we were at the end of last season that is really telling.

He’s lost 45% of his 40 league games in charge

[Since452]

Whilst I don’t disagree I find it interesting that his bad run towards the end is enough to put you off him yet you’re one of the most vocal regarding Jack Ross and how it was a sin to sack him despite us also ended on a horror run similar to Lennons under him.

I wouldn’t go near Lennon either btw.

Ross had just got us to another cup final after a brilliant win over Rangers at Hampden. I felt the players were still with him. Both their runs were poor but with Lennon i felt it was toxic.

[Paulie Walnuts]

He’s lost 45% of his 40 league games in charge

I’m not a fan of win% or loss% used as individual stats (only quoting win% etc) cause they only cover one of three potential results.

PPG gives you a clearer picture of the whole thing and LJs isn’t pretty. It’s hardly better than Maloneys.

[Slim Shady]

He wont get sacked until it's no longer in the best interest of the club for him to be manager.

I get the reactions are a response to losing games which no-one likes but think about the context.

Do we want to build a sustainable team and culture? Yes, undeniably
Has he shown signs if improvements in his first season in charge? Yes, undeniably
Has the period of poor form been continuous/prolonged? No, undeniably
Are we in a rebuilding phase? Yes, undeniably

Having a strategy as a club is essential, and strategy is as much about what you dont do as what you do.

People go for what seems easiest - sack him, get someone else - its short term thinking.

I'm sick to death of undoing work and starting again, it's wasteful, expensive and rarely ever achieves what you think it will.

We get to October, if his win ratio is not hitting around 40/50%, if we're consistently putting in poor performances, if we're outside the 6 - then yeah, maybe the benefits of getting a new manager in, outweighs the risk of keeping the current one.

Until then, no. We don't.


What are the improvements from his first season in charge?

I dont see any - the football we play is terrible to watch, defeats against poor teams when we even struggle to get a shot on target.
What would you describe our style of play as.

Has the period of poor form been continuous/prolonged? No, undeniably - I'm sorry but it has - we won games last season mostly against 10 men. Our form against the bottom 6 was horrific.

He has to go now!

[Greenio]

We haven’t improved Greenio, it’s just more of the same or worse imo.

What has improved in your opinion?

I think the gk and def has gotten weaker, the midfield is probably a little worse, possibly on a par, the left winger improved, after 3 or 4 attempts, the striker, possibly…..he has signed a ton of players who ain’t good enough, it’s really poor stuff.

We finished 5th in his first season, got into Europe At the time everyone was pretty much in agreement that that was an achievement (a small one) on where we were.

I'm think overall the team is stronger and we've signed players in Yohan, Vente, Levitt that excite me.

I think the style of football, when we're playing well, is better than the last 4 managers we've had.

I think the staffing and operations set up is stronger and more capable.

I'm not saying he's doing amazing, I'm not saying that he's guaranteed to improve, I'm saying I'm sick to death of ripping up groundwork and starting again.

Get to October, if he's not got us hitting the win ratio we expect, then yeah, it might be a different story. I'm not wanting to jump out a frying pan and into a burning house!

[Greenio]

What are the improvements from his first season in charge?

I dont see any - the football we play is terrible to watch, defeats against poor teams when we even struggle to get a shot on target.
What would you describe our style of play as.

Has the period of poor form been continuous/prolonged? No, undeniably - I'm sorry but it has - we won games last season mostly against 10 men. Our form against the bottom 6 was horrific.

He has to go now!

We beat a strong European team 3-1 last week playing really well! How is that prolonged and continuous poor form?

[Slim Shady]

We beat a strong European team 3-1 last week playing really well! How is that prolonged and continuous poor form?

We got beat from Andorran part team -

Beat from St Mirren, beat from Motherwell?

Lucerne will beat us on Thursday.

How many games have we seen where we struggle to have a shot on target?
Our only shot on target yesterday was a penalty

Motherwell outplayed us with a 16 year old in midfield!!!

[Paulie Walnuts]

We beat a strong European team 3-1 last week playing really well! How is that prolonged and continuous poor form?

Poor form doesn’t have to mean non stop defeats. If you win 1 game in 6 your form over those 6 games is still poor.

Someone said we’ve won 3 of our last 13 league games. In the league our form is horrible.

[Not In The Know]

As Mike Tyson once said, everyone has a plan until you get punched in the face. Whatever the ‘strategy’ is, it isn’t working - undeniably.

There is no improvement, just inconsistent bobbing up and down. His team doesn’t look any fitter, any more coherent, any better balanced, any more resilient, any better a balanced squad, any clearer a playing style, anywhere near able to play the high-tempo high-press game he himself promised or anything like either a tough to beat team or an attractive free flowing football side. He’s not got it, let’s stop pretending otherwise.


This pre season was exactly the same as last years. Losing to pishy wee teams and players getting chopped and changed told to leave then played in the next match. No progress has been made. We are back to where we were when we sacked Ross. 3 years or so wasted.

[Greenio]

We got beat from Andorran part team -

Beat from St Mirren, beat from Motherwell?

Lucerne will beat us on Thursday.

How many games have we seen where we struggle to have a shot on target?
Our only shot on target yesterday was a penalty

Motherwell outplayed us with a 16 year old in midfield!!!


Then we pumped them 6-1

Well that's not a very positive attitude! :) I think we'll go through!

I know, I watched it, we were awful!

[stantonhibby]

I’m not a fan of win% or loss% used as individual stats (only quoting win% etc) cause they only cover one of three potential results.

PPG gives you a clearer picture of the whole thing and LJs isn’t pretty. It’s hardly better than Maloneys.

You should have mentioned this before🙄

[Paulie Walnuts]

You should have mentioned this before🙄

If it wasn’t still relevant I wouldn’t mention it.

[B.H.F.C]

We beat a strong European team 3-1 last week playing really well! How is that prolonged and continuous poor form?

In his time here he’s lost more than he’s won. We look no closer to finding any form of consistency and we don’t look like a team that is progressing. The performances in the first two league game, with the exception of a 15 minute spell against St Mirren, have been a poor and disorganised as anything we’ve seen in his time. The way we have played in those games has been more concerning than the results themselves.

I was encouraged by the way we finished last season, I thought there was something to build on. Despite the investment we look like a team with no real way of playing and with a manager who will constantly chop and change hoping to land on something. Then when he doesn’t land on something he’s having to rip things up after 25 or 45 minutes.

[jeffers]

He wont get sacked until it's no longer in the best interest of the club for him to be manager.

I get the reactions are a response to losing games which no-one likes but think about the context.

Do we want to build a sustainable team and culture? Yes, undeniably
Has he shown signs if improvements in his first season in charge? Yes, undeniably
Has the period of poor form been continuous/prolonged? No, undeniably
Are we in a rebuilding phase? Yes, undeniably

Having a strategy as a club is essential, and strategy is as much about what you dont do as what you do.

People go for what seems easiest - sack him, get someone else - its short term thinking.

I'm sick to death of undoing work and starting again, it's wasteful, expensive and rarely ever achieves what you think it will.

We get to October, if his win ratio is not hitting around 40/50%, if we're consistently putting in poor performances, if we're outside the 6 - then yeah, maybe the benefits of getting a new manager in, outweighs the risk of keeping the current one.

Until then, no. We don't.

Fair play to you for posting the above. However after a year in charge under him I go into every game wondering which version of Hibs will turn up - the one that played well on Thursday or the one that we saw yesterday. I get that we will lose games and have some poor performances but it’s so up and down under him and has been since he arrived and it’s why this board flips from wanting to give him more time after a win to wanting him gone after a defeat.

It’s been said before but we still have no identity or discernible style of play under him, which you’d expect after a year in charge would be evident. I can only judge him on his time with us and I’ve seen nothing to suggest the up and down nature of results and performances will continue while he is in charge and I don’t see how anyone can have confidence it will ever be any different.

[Greenio]

In his time here he’s lost more than he’s won. We look no closer to finding any form of consistency and we don’t look like a team that is progressing. The performances in the first two league game, with the exception of a 15 minute spell against St Mirren, have been a poor and disorganised as anything we’ve seen in his time. The way we have played in those games has been more concerning than the results themselves.

I was encouraged by the way we finished last season, I thought there was something to build on. Despite the investment we look like a team with no real way of playing and with a manager who will constantly chop and change hoping to land on something. Then when he doesn’t land on something he’s having to rip things up after 25 or 45 minutes.

Much of that is true.

But the negatives of firing a manager, disruption, loss of continuity, finance, time to adapt, transfer impact....and the fact that there's zero certainty it actually gets is what we want...means it's too early to sack him.

[Basildon Hibs]

We got beat from Andorran part team -

Beat from St Mirren, beat from Motherwell?

Lucerne will beat us on Thursday.

How many games have we seen where we struggle to have a shot on target?
Our only shot on target yesterday was a penalty

Motherwell outplayed us with a 16 year old in midfield!!!

👍👍

[Silky]

In his time here he’s lost more than he’s won. We look no closer to finding any form of consistency and we don’t look like a team that is progressing. The performances in the first two league game, with the exception of a 15 minute spell against St Mirren, have been a poor and disorganised as anything we’ve seen in his time. The way we have played in those games has been more concerning than the results themselves.

I was encouraged by the way we finished last season, I thought there was something to build on. Despite the investment we look like a team with no real way of playing and with a manager who will constantly chop and change hoping to land on something. Then when he doesn’t land on something he’s having to rip things up after 25 or 45 minutes.

In all my many years watching Hibs, I don't think we have ever, properly, found any form of consistency. We go through players, and managers, like folk change their pants. I've seen posts on previous threads referring to the club as always in transition and I think that's right. Players and managers come and go and any success is short term. I don't have the answer but I honestly don't think I've seen a sustained period of consistency in 40 odd years and I don't think that will change now.

[Centre Hawf]

Point 1. How does LJ currently contribute positively to that sustainable team and culture?
Point 2. Really? I don't see any difference. He arrived with the nickname Streaky Lee and there's nothing to suggest that's undeserved.
Point 3. 3 wins in the last 13 games.
Point 4. That's 15 months in charge, 'Rome wasn't built in a day', but I bet they had most of it done in 15 months!

Agree with both of these points entirely. Even in regards to 3 wins in 13 he's had sustained periods last season where we'd win 2 out of 11 games. These streaks absolutely kill us and while he pulled it out the fire a few times to save his job, the good runs aren't enough to offset the damage that's done by picking up so few points in large stretches of matches. We are currently in the throws of another one of his 'streaks' and going nowhere with him fast. The only thing I'm confident of is if we keep him long enough he'll probably find a way to win 3 on the bounce to give him some breathing space before starting the cycle again, it's not sustainable to achieving any of our targets.

[J-C]

Then we pumped them 6-1

Well that's not a very positive attitude! :) I think we'll go through!

I know, I watched it, we were awful!

How the **** are you still defending him after yesterday's performance, its not like its came out the blue, last season was littered with performances like yesterday.

[Greenio]

How the **** are you still defending him after yesterday's performance, its not like its came out the blue, last season was littered with performances like yesterday.

I'm not 'defending him'.

I'm saying the negatives of sacking a manager, at the moment, outweigh the benefits

[Onion]

Much of that is true.

But the negatives of firing a manager, disruption, loss of continuity, finance, time to adapt, transfer impact....and the fact that there's zero certainty it actually gets is what we want...means it's too early to sack him.

These are also potential benefits from changing manager. Would sooner have the HOPE that goes with a season of transition under a new manager than more of the same guff we got last season under LJ.

Cost is the only reason for Hibs sticking with him at this point. If we had more money, he'd be gone. Hibs having the ability/recruitment skills to replace LJ with someone better is a whole new subject.

[Hibee Daft]

I think we have a team of players that are good, bad tactics though.


I think one of the reasons we won mid week but lose in the league is how much space attacking players had vs Luzern. The players put in a brilliant performance but actually had a chance to show it without being stifled with lack of space.


A good manager in my eyes for hibs is when the other team is sitting back and hes able to break them down. Lee Johnson has time and time again shown hes unable to do that.


Yes he had a good end to the season but we played Rangers, Celtic, Hearts, Aberdeen and St Mirren who all attacked us gave space. When a team just sits back Lee Johnson really struggles.

[Since452]

Said it way back in this thread that we're either very good or very bad under Johnson. There's no in between. There's no churning out results or scraping wins. We either batter teams or put in performances like yesterday. Sometimes i wish we'd pull a jammy 1-0 out the bag.

[Onion]

Agree with both of these points entirely. Even in regards to 3 wins in 13 he's had sustained periods last season where we'd win 2 out of 11 games. These streaks absolutely kill us and while he pulled it out the fire a few times to save his job, the good runs aren't enough to offset the damage that's done by picking up so few points in large stretches of matches. We are currently in the throws of another one of his 'streaks' and going nowhere with him fast. The only thing I'm confident of is if we keep him long enough he'll probably find a way to win 3 on the bounce to give him some breathing space before starting the cycle again, it's not sustainable to achieving any of our targets.

No need to fret. The novelty and romance of Europe is the only thing that's keeping him in a job at the moment. Once that's gone (soon), he'll be totally exposed and the knives will be out.

[Scottie]

I'm not 'defending him'.

I'm saying the negatives of sacking a manager, at the moment, outweigh the benefits
At what point then does it become beneficial to sack him ? Genuinely interested in your thoughts.

The longer we give him the longer this sorry saga continues.

[GreenGray]

I partly understand the logic when people say we can't keep sacking managers, as it isn't an ideal way to build long term success. But neither is sticking with a manger who isn't good enough, that will harm us further. We have a decent squad that I am sure a a better manager could do well with.

[Hermit Crab]

Its a toss up between Johnson and MacLean to see who gets sacked first. We are equally as bad as St Johnstone on current form.

[B.H.F.C]

In all my many years watching Hibs, I don't think we have ever, properly, found any form of consistency. We go through players, and managers, like folk change their pants. I've seen posts on previous threads referring to the club as always in transition and I think that's right. Players and managers come and go and any success is short term. I don't have the answer but I honestly don't think I've seen a sustained period of consistency in 40 odd years and I don't think that will change now.

Football is fairly short term full stop. At our level, if a manager does well, you might get a couple of years out of them before someone else takes them or you lose some of your better players making their job tougher. I think we are doing things differently now in terms of reinvesting in the team that gives a manager a far greater opportunity to build something over a longer period. It’s an opportunity that hasn’t been afforded to previous managers but I’ve seen nothing from LJ to make me think he is the guy to take advantage of it.

[Paulie Walnuts]

At what point then does it become beneficial to sack him ? Genuinely interested in your thoughts.

The longer we give him the longer this sorry saga continues.

:agree:

I’ve seen the first round of games referenced as being the time to make the decision, but by that point we could be out of the running for third. There’s little room for error if you want to be successful, hence the need to be ruthless.

[jeffers]

Football is fairly short term full stop. At our level, if a manager does well, you might get a couple of years out of them before someone else takes them or you lose some of your better players making their job tougher. I think we are doing things differently now in terms of reinvesting in the team that gives a manager a far greater opportunity to build something over a longer period. It’s an opportunity that hasn’t been afforded to previous managers but I’ve seen nothing from LJ to make me think he is the guy to take advantage of it.

:agree: Even the Huns and Celtic can’t keep their managers, so there’s no way will be able keep hold of anyone who does a good job. What we are doing though is giving a manager the backing previous ones could only dream about and a setup that means when one manager leaves the next one hopefully isn’t walking into a **** show and having to rip everything up and start again from scratch. The challenge as always is in appointing the right manager in the first place - something we’ve failed to do with the last two.

[Greenio]

At what point then does it become beneficial to sack him ? Genuinely interested in your thoughts.

The longer we give him the longer this sorry saga continues.

Sorry, worded that wrongly.

It's never 'benefical' to sack a manager when you think about it. Its the end point of a failure.

It's more about admitting defeat and, personally, I feel it's too soon to make that call. For all the reasons I've mentioned.

[keep the faith]

He wont get sacked until it's no longer in the best interest of the club for him to be manager.

I get the reactions are a response to losing games which no-one likes but think about the context.

Do we want to build a sustainable team and culture? Yes, undeniably
Has he shown signs if improvements in his first season in charge? Yes, undeniably
Has the period of poor form been continuous/prolonged? No, undeniably
Are we in a rebuilding phase? Yes, undeniably

Having a strategy as a club is essential, and strategy is as much about what you dont do as what you do.

People go for what seems easiest - sack him, get someone else - its short term thinking.

I'm sick to death of undoing work and starting again, it's wasteful, expensive and rarely ever achieves what you think it will.

We get to October, if his win ratio is not hitting around 40/50%, if we're consistently putting in poor performances, if we're outside the 6 - then yeah, maybe the benefits of getting a new manager in, outweighs the risk of keeping the current one.

Until then, no. We don't.

This. Let's calm down, be supporters and let things settle. This knives out thing is so tiresome and is not a good look.
And by the way, I would swap two poor league performances for a European win any day. Europe is what we strive for all season, so this year it surely must be the priority for a few short weeks.

[Joe6-2]

This. Let's calm down, be supporters and let things settle. This knives out thing is so tiresome and is not a good look.
And by the way, I would swap two poor league performances for a European win any day. Europe is what we strive for all season, so this year it surely must be the priority for a few short weeks.

They have to go hand in hand, it’s not just poor league performances, it’s zero points!

[JeMeSouviens]

L J seemed to say that playing two games a week is to much for some players just now, how was it that last season playing just at the weekends we got the same sort of performances from the team ? The mans a slaver who will blame everyone bar himself for inferior performances.

:agree:

You can blame 2 games a week if you've been doing it all season. Not in August ffs.

[Heisenberg]

He’s very experienced (over 500 games in management don’t you know) but has us struggling to play two games a week for a limited period of time? The guys at it. His whole career before coming to Hibs was based in leagues where you regularly have to play twice a week, why hasn’t he used some of his experience of this to help the team out and set them up to succeed?

[Scottie]

Sorry, worded that wrongly.

It's never 'benefical' to sack a manager when you think about it. Its the end point of a failure.

It's more about admitting defeat and, personally, I feel it's too soon to make that call. For all the reasons I've mentioned.
No problem bud we all want the same thing a successful Hibs team we all love.

[mcfly]

He wont get sacked until it's no longer in the best interest of the club for him to be manager.

I get the reactions are a response to losing games which no-one likes but think about the context.

Do we want to build a sustainable team and culture? Yes, undeniably
Has he shown signs if improvements in his first season in charge? Yes, undeniably
Has the period of poor form been continuous/prolonged? No, undeniably
Are we in a rebuilding phase? Yes, undeniably

Having a strategy as a club is essential, and strategy is as much about what you dont do as what you do.

People go for what seems easiest - sack him, get someone else - its short term thinking.

I'm sick to death of undoing work and starting again, it's wasteful, expensive and rarely ever achieves what you think it will.

We get to October, if his win ratio is not hitting around 40/50%, if we're consistently putting in poor performances, if we're outside the 6 - then yeah, maybe the benefits of getting a new manager in, outweighs the risk of keeping the current one.

Until then, no. We don't.

I disagree when the fans totally turn on him he will be binned. Just like all the rest.

That’s how football works. Once you lose the fans the board will act.

Fans are the live blood of any club. When they start not coming back the board will realise they need to change it.

Poor poor appointment

[Steve20]

If you want us to challenge for top 3 and challenging in the cups, Lee Johnson has to go. He's nowhere near good enough.

If you want us to have no direction, finish mid table and get nowhere in the cups, then yeah he's probably the man for the job.

[Centre Hawf]

Football is fairly short term full stop. At our level, if a manager does well, you might get a couple of years out of them before someone else takes them or you lose some of your better players making their job tougher. I think we are doing things differently now in terms of reinvesting in the team that gives a manager a far greater opportunity to build something over a longer period. It’s an opportunity that hasn’t been afforded to previous managers but I’ve seen nothing from LJ to make me think he is the guy to take advantage of it.

The thing that I don't really get when people say it's too soon to sack him still is that he's now the 5th longest serving manager in the Premiership, behind McInness, Martindale, Robinson, and Mackay. 3 of those 4 have (arguably) done very well with their clubs to remain in charge as long as they have. Martindale, for as much as I don't like the man, has rebuilt Livingston from League 1 into a half decent Prem team. McInness has gotten Killie back up and kept them up and is looking to build on that. Robinson has given St Mirren one of their best league seasons in decades and has started strong again. Mackay the odd one out.

These guys are at their clubs the length of time because they showed why they should be there. Johnson is not doing anything other than a half decent win against a Swiss team to show me why he should be here still and he's had more than enough time to show us.

[Smartie]

If you want us to challenge for top 3 and challenging in the cups, Lee Johnson has to go. He's nowhere near good enough.

If you want us to have no direction, finish mid table and get nowhere in the cups, then yeah he's probably the man for the job.

I'm not sure we have the squad of players to be seriously challenging for 3rd, irrespective of who the manager is. We'd be punting the next guy again in no time, as we have a habit of doing.

We have a decent first XI on paper, yes, which should do well if we get very lucky with injuries and add a player or two. But we're miles off having the squad we need to be confident and comfortable that we're going to meet the expectations you describe, even though we might if we carried a bit of luck.

[RossScott1991]

The problem Johnson faces is due to some of his interviews in his time in charge, fans have already made up their mind about him. Even if we play well and win it only ever buys him peace and quiet for that weekend. He’s always going to be swimming against the tide here, so it’s a slow inevitable ending for him. One I feel we might need to act on after Thursday should we lose.


Problem with Johnson in charge there is no in between, no grinding out wins or ugly victories when we maybe have injuries or just simply having off days. Inconsistency is frustrating and then he doesn’t help himself with half of the stuff he comes out with.


I looked back at his league results taking cups out of the equation. We have only strung more than 2 league wins in a row under him on two occasions. January/Feb 2023 where we went unbeaten in 5 winning 4. (Aberdeen 6.0 in amongst this)


And 4 games in a row September/October 2022 in the league where we strung 4 results together.


Apart from those spells we haven’t been able to win 2 league games in a row.


Ultimately I think he will be sacked, if we go out on Thursday possibly then as noise may become too loud for board to ignore especially having a 2 goal lead.


If not then , his job hinges on the next league match. As surely by even Lee’s standards we can beat Raith at ER

[Hibbyradge]

If honestly get rid of now and put McDermott in charge. He already knows the club and players and has a better pedigree than LJ.

Not for me. I want him to keep identifying players for us, something he can't do if he's managing the team.

[The Captain....]

Far too much emphasis being put on this playing twice a week stuff, he’s probably talking the players in to being exhausted he goes on about it so much.

There will come a time when it puts a strain on them but I struggle to believe that’s an issue in the middle of August when we’ve had one tough Thursday game.

I get why playing after travelling to Andorra would maybe take its toll but we never had a proper game that weekend, the home game against them wouldn’t have had any impact I wouldn’t have thought.

If they genuinely are struggling already I think it really brings into question the preparation for the season.

English championship sides play midweek and at the weekend nearly all season, he can’t really think we can’t manage two weeks of it surely?!Couldn't agree more..I'm sick listening to the excuses. We spent a lot on players, it was his decision not to rotate the squad against St Mirren, so he shares the blame...or should do.

I've never taken to him, he reminds me of the kind of project managers who used to come into the banking world and spout the latest madey uppy buzzwords while causing absolute chaos. They'd always exit quickly with a good few grand in their pocket leaving those left behind to pick up the pieces.

For me he is in the same mould as Butcher and Calderwood in being a manager I've a real dislike for.

Can't wait til he is away but I fear he's pulled the wool over the owners/board eyes to an extent.

Sent from my SM-S906B using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

I don't normally pay too much attention to his interviews so have never really commented on the 'Johnsonisms'.

But did he really say 'today was poor, but as hungry men we must look for our supper' after the game yesterday or has someone made that up?

It's not that I don't get what he is trying to say but it's a really bizarre way of saying it.

[BSEJVT]

My views on LJ are well documented but there isn’t doubt that playing in Europe Thursday and league games Sunday is a hard ask

We are either totally inept behind the scenes medically or the unluckiest team in history but it’s a constant stream of injuries meaning we never play a settled side.

Whether LJ would or would persist with the scattergun approach usually employed is another matter

We will be out of Europe in 3 weeks max and I woukd give him the first run of fixtures to prove definitively whether we have made any progress since last season or not once these mitigating factors are gone.

[Paulie Walnuts]

I don't normally pay too much attention to his interviews so have never really commented on the 'Johnsonisms'.

But did he really say 'today was poor, but as hungry men we must look for our supper' after the game yesterday or has someone made that up?

It's not that I don't get what he is trying to say but it's a really bizarre way of saying it.

:faf:

I’m the same as you, I don’t listen to his interviews, or the interviews of previous managers. I’m not interested in what they have to say so it’s not a stick I’ll ever beat him with.

If he has said that though then that is a beauty.

[Paulie Walnuts]

My views on LJ are well documented but there isn’t doubt that playing in Europe Thursday and league games Sunday is a hard ask

We are either totally inept behind the scenes medically or the unluckiest team in history but it’s a constant stream of injuries meaning we never play a settled side.

Whether LJ would or would persist with the scattergun approach usually employed is another matter

We will be out of Europe in 3 weeks max and I woukd give him the first run of fixtures to prove definitively whether we have made any progress since last season or not once these mitigating factors are gone.

The first round of fixtures could see 3rd place out of sight and the season effectively over in terms of the league.

We shouldn’t be waiting anywhere near that long imo.

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Regardless of Thursday. If we lose at the weekend he needs to go, imo

[Hibbyradge]

I don't normally pay too much attention to his interviews so have never really commented on the 'Johnsonisms'.

But did he really say 'today was poor, but as hungry men we must look for our supper' after the game yesterday or has someone made that up?

It's not that I don't get what he is trying to say but it's a really bizarre way of saying it.

I like metaphors. They're a good way of getting the listener to actually think about what's meant. Something like "we've got to work hard if we're going to succeed" is just a cliche and would be like "water off a ducks back" to players (see what I did there?)

[jeffers]

I like metaphors. They're a good way of getting the listener to actually think about what's meant. Something like "we've got to work hard if we're going to succeed" is just a cliche and would be like "water off a ducks back" to players (see what I did there?)

I like ducks 😊 I think I’ll look back on Johnson’s time with us as the Animals Phase, the amount of time they get mentioned by him and on this board.

[Hibbyradge]

I like ducks 😊 I think I’ll look back on Johnson’s time with us as the Animals Phase, the amount of time they get mentioned by him and on this board.

It was me that mentioned a duck.

Beside a lion, have we had other animals from LJ?

[snedzuk]

Couldn't agree more..I'm sick listening to the excuses. We spent a lot on players, it was his decision not to rotate the squad against St Mirren, so he shares the blame...or should do.

I've never taken to him, he reminds me of the kind of project managers who used to come into the banking world and spout the latest madey uppy buzzwords while causing absolute chaos. They'd always exit quickly with a good few grand in their pocket leaving those left behind to pick up the pieces.

For me he is in the same mould as Butcher and Calderwood in being a manager I've a real dislike for.

Can't wait til he is away but I fear he's pulled the wool over the owners/board eyes to an extent.

Sent from my SM-S906B using Tapatalk

I recall several Wed / Sat / Wed games when as a first division side we played our way to two national cup finals in the same season. That and any energy we showed against St Mirren came in the second half.

Yesterday, make no mistake, Motherwell were absolutely dire and I worry about what that says about us - we never at any point looked like laying a glove on them.

[jeffers]

It was me that mentioned a duck.

Beside a lion, have we had other animals from LJ?

No I know, I wasn’t suggesting it was all from him. He’s talked about a lion, a horse and a fish 😜 in the past week though.

[Hibbyradge]

No I know, I wasn’t suggesting it was all from him. He’s talked about a lion, a horse and a fish 😜 in the past week though.

What was the horse reference?

Fish, meh.

[jeffers]

What was the horse reference?

Fish, meh.

He talked about us getting back on the horse after the defeat to St Mirren. Then a poster yesterday said he’d seen plenty of donkeys in relation to yesterday while another poster suggested a shaved monkey could do a better job than Johnson.

[Hibbyradge]

He talked about us getting back on the horse after the defeat to St Mirren. Then a poster yesterday said he’d seen plenty of donkeys in relation to yesterday while another poster suggested a shaved monkey could do a better job gsm Johnson.

Gotcha.

[JammyDoidger]

Anyone else woke up this morning feeling less bothered by yesterday? I've sort of come to expect results like this now, ive accepted we will never be third under Johnson and the club is just going to continue to accept mediocrity, they seem to think 5th was acceptable last season since it guaranteed a couple of European games. What's the point even letting it get to you and ruin your week. If we go out on Thursday you'd imagine the club will have no option but to sack him, but I just can't see them doing it. Deflated with it all now tbh.

[Pretty Boy]

Anyone else woke up this morning feeling less bothered by yesterday? I've sort of come to expect results like this now, ive accepted we will never be third under Johnson and the club is just going to continue to accept mediocrity, they seem to think 5th was acceptable last season since it guaranteed a couple of European games. What's the point even letting it get to you and ruin your week. If we go out on Thursday you'd imagine the club will have no option but to sack him, but I just can't see them doing it. Deflated with it all now tbh.

I read someone on Twitter earlier saying Hibs were a government tool designed to ruin people's weekends so much that going back to work on a Monday didn't seem all that bad.

[flash]

Anyone else woke up this morning feeling less bothered by yesterday? I've sort of come to expect results like this now, ive accepted we will never be third under Johnson and the club is just going to continue to accept mediocrity, they seem to think 5th was acceptable last season since it guaranteed a couple of European games. What's the point even letting it get to you and ruin your week. If we go out on Thursday you'd imagine the club will have no option but to sack him, but I just can't see them doing it. Deflated with it all now tbh.

We could easily have been 3rd last season.

It's amazing how often people completely negate any decent points they might be making by including stuff that simply doesn't hold up.

[Since452]

We could easily have been 3rd last season.

It's amazing how often people completely negate any decent points they might be making by including stuff that simply doesn't hold up.

We would have been without some horrendous VAR calls.

[Paulie Walnuts]

We could easily have been 3rd last season.

It's amazing how often people completely negate any decent points they might be making by including stuff that simply doesn't hold up.

We weren’t though. We were also very, very close to ending up bottom 6.

I don’t think the idea that we could easily have been third but failed to get third does anything to disprove the posters point.

[Centre Hawf]

We could easily have been 3rd last season.

It's amazing how often people completely negate any decent points they might be making by including stuff that simply doesn't hold up.

We could easily have been bottom 6 as well.

[allezsauzee]

We could easily have been 3rd last season.

It's amazing how often people completely negate any decent points they might be making by including stuff that simply doesn't hold up.

I don't think Lee Johnson is a tactical genius nor do I think he's useless. The reality is that he's somewhere in-between which is probably what you would expect for a Hibs manager. He gets some things right and somethings wrong and people will choose to ignore whatever doesn't suit their argument. While I'd love to see Lennon back as he's my favourite manager in recent times, it seems unlikely to happen given the manner in which he departed and so I'm happy to stick with LJ. I'm not sure I can think of any realistic replacement that I'd sooner have.

[stalbanshibby]

The first round of fixtures could see 3rd place out of sight and the season effectively over in terms of the league.

We shouldn’t be waiting anywhere near that long imo.

Last season a decent run moved teams (Hibs included) into 3rd after having been inconsistent. Aberdeen did it. Hearts did it then went the other way towards the end of Robbie Neilsen's tenure.

So we've lost a couple of games against teams that we should be taking points off - absolutely. But Europe has always been a Mecca for Hibs, and has been used to lure players to ER, and that game last Thursday against Luzern was fantastic. It was on the cards that the players would be feeling it after, although in typical Hibs fashion, they build us up then let us down.

And the players aren't up to full speed - I'm not sure why that is. It also seems that midfield to defence is looking a bit creaky.

But as someone said, if we get through against Luzern, Villa will most likely pump us, but what a couple of great games (as long as we're not completely out of it by the end of the first leg). Then it'll be domestic league and cups, and a decent run from streaky Lee will bring us right back up there.

We all want Hibs to be winning 6-0 week in week out, ah the days of the Tornadoes!! but I doubt it'll happen again in my lifetime

[Paulie Walnuts]

Last season a decent run moved teams (Hibs included) into 3rd after having been inconsistent. Aberdeen did it. Hearts did it then went the other way towards the end of Robbie Neilsen's tenure.

So we've lost a couple of games against teams that we should be taking points off - absolutely. But Europe has always been a Mecca for Hibs, and has been used to lure players to ER, and that game last Thursday against Luzern was fantastic. It was on the cards that the players would be feeling it after, although in typical Hibs fashion, they build us up then let us down.

And the players aren't up to full speed - I'm not sure why that is. It also seems that midfield to defence is looking a bit creaky.

But as someone said, if we get through against Luzern, Villa will most likely pump us, but what a couple of great games (as long as we're not completely out of it by the end of the first leg). Then it'll be domestic league and cups, and a decent run from streaky Lee will bring us right back up there.

We all want Hibs to be winning 6-0 week in week out, ah the days of the Tornadoes!! but I doubt it'll happen again in my lifetime

There’s 9 more games in the first round of fixtures. Say it doesn’t go well and we sack LJ, call it 3 wins, a draw and 5 defeats over those games which I think would be the best we could hope for if we get to 11 games and still sack him.

That leaves us 47 points over 27 games to match Aberdeen’s total last season. That would mean having to match our PPG from the Lennon season where we got our records points total to match this seasons third place total.

If he gets sacked after 11 games then I’d suggest the odds of us getting third this season are very, very slim. We’d need to become a superb side to get anywhere near it.

[jeffers]

I don't think Lee Johnson is a tactical genius nor do I think he's useless. The reality is that he's somewhere in-between which is probably what you would expect for a Hibs manager. He gets some things right and somethings wrong and people will choose to ignore whatever doesn't suit their argument. While I'd love to see Lennon back as he's my favourite manager in recent times, it seems unlikely to happen given the manner in which he departed and so I'm happy to stick with LJ. I'm not sure I can think of any realistic replacement that I'd sooner have.

I don’t expect any Hibs manager to be with us for longer than 2-3 seasons. What I would like is to see one who does such a good job another club wants him as their manager.

[One Day Soon]

We could easily have been 3rd last season.

It's amazing how often people completely negate any decent points they might be making by including stuff that simply doesn't hold up.

‘could’ isn’t doing it for me.

[Not In The Know]

Fair play to you for posting the above. However after a year in charge under him I go into every game wondering which version of Hibs will turn up - the one that played well on Thursday or the one that we saw yesterday. I get that we will lose games and have some poor performances but it’s so up and down under him and has been since he arrived and it’s why this board flips from wanting to give him more time after a win to wanting him gone after a defeat.

It’s been said before but we still have no identity or discernible style of play under him, which you’d expect after a year in charge would be evident. I can only judge him on his time with us and I’ve seen nothing to suggest the up and down nature of results and performances will continue while he is in charge and I don’t see how anyone can have confidence it will ever be any different.


it’s almost like the more time he gets to work with / prepare the players the worse we get. Ie preseason or after the World Cup break. That’s alarming tbh.

[Not In The Know]

I don’t expect any Hibs manager to be with us for longer than 2-3 seasons. What I would like is to see one who does such a good job another club wants him as their manager.
I’d happily take McInnes for 4-5 years

[Since90+2]

I’d happily take McInnes for 4-5 years

Agreed. I think his ship has sailed for a big club down south and he passed up the only chance he'll ever get to manage Rangers.

He is someone you can be pretty confident would be at the club for a good number of years if he done well.

[I'm Spartacus]

Agreed. I think his ship has sailed for a big club down south and he passed up the only chance he'll ever get to manage Rangers.

He is someone you can be pretty confident would be at the club for a good number of years if he done well.

I agree. I would lock in with McInnes for 4 or 5 years but actually think he would be here longer, there would be cries of his playing style not being 'Hibs', but the reality is, who has played the Hibs way?

Mental to think that Heckingbottom is an EPL Manager! We gave him money to leave yet couldn't afford him now. Football eh?

[Wilson]

I agree. I would lock in with McInnes for 4 or 5 years but actually think he would be here longer, there would be cries of his playing style not being 'Hibs', but the reality is, who has played the Hibs way?

Mental to think that Heckingbottom is an EPL Manager! We gave him money to leave yet couldn't afford him now. Football eh?

You'll be giving McInnes a big payoff then. When the fans don't turn up, for the drudgery of his supposed routine march to third and give him the same abuse Jack Ross got if he dared lose a cup final.

[Greenio]

I disagree when the fans totally turn on him he will be binned. Just like all the rest.

That’s how football works. Once you lose the fans the board will act.

Fans are the live blood of any club. When they start not coming back the board will realise they need to change it.

Poor poor appointment

If the fans properly turn on him (it's not happened yet) then maybe yeah, the pendulum will have swung. That's kinda my point.

[WhileTheChief..]

I think that would be rather misguided. Neil was ok at getting us up for some of the bigger games, but towards the end we were pretty poor and it became more and more noticeable the number of times he changed tactics and personnel early in games, in fact doing exactly the same thing Johnson is getting pelters for now and with the same result I might add.

Neil Lennon will never manage this club again, move on mate.

I’m not so sure on that. I reckon we’ll talk to him and he’d probably jump at the chance.

He’s too young to have given it up to be a pundit for ever more.

We’d see an instant reaction from the players and ER wound get a massive lift.

Clearly the support wound be divided, but that’s a huge improvement on all of us (bar a handful on here) wanting rid of LJ!!!

[Greenio]

I’m not so sure on that. I reckon we’ll talk to him and he’d probably jump at the chance.

He’s too young to have given it up to be a pundit for ever more.

We’d see an instant reaction from the players and ER wound get a massive lift.

Clearly the support wound be divided, but that’s a huge improvement on all of us (bar a handful on here) wanting rid of LJ!!!

I actually think most fans realize it's too early to sack him. Just seems more than it is on here because it's quite a vocal minority that are getting a lot of reasons to hear their arguments.

There was a poll on here just the other week that supported that.

[Jones28]

I’m not so sure on that. I reckon we’ll talk to him and he’d probably jump at the chance.

He’s too young to have given it up to be a pundit for ever more.

We’d see an instant reaction from the players and ER wound get a massive lift.

Clearly the support wound be divided, but that’s a huge improvement on all of us (bar a handful on here) wanting rid of LJ!!!

And when the wheels come off in 6/12/18 months time where does that leave us?

The Lennon of 2017/18 is no longer there, the midfield of that team is no longer there, the quality of defenders in that team is no longer there and the supporters who saw it unravel in 2018 will all roll their eyes when the same thing happens.

The way Lennon left Hibs and jumped straight back to Celtic should never see him manage us again. I find it quite astonishing people are still touting him for a comeback.

[jeffers]

I’m not so sure on that. I reckon we’ll talk to him and he’d probably jump at the chance.

He’s too young to have given it up to be a pundit for ever more.

We’d see an instant reaction from the players and ER wound get a massive lift.

Clearly the support wound be divided, but that’s a huge improvement on all of us (bar a handful on here) wanting rid of LJ!!!

The spell where we signed Kamberi and McLaren and brought back Scott Allan was one of my favourite times as a Hibs fan in recent years, but I do not want Lennon to return. We might get a lift but it would only be a matter of time before he implodes.

[Silky]

I agree. I would lock in with McInnes for 4 or 5 years but actually think he would be here longer, there would be cries of his playing style not being 'Hibs', but the reality is, who has played the Hibs way?

Mental to think that Heckingbottom is an EPL Manager! We gave him money to leave yet couldn't afford him now. Football eh?

Why would we give McInnes that time when basically nobody before him has been afforded that? You mention Heckingbottom. He's doing great in the EPL yet we emptied him pretty quickly. We've been through so many managers that it can't be all poor appointments, crap managers etc. Hecky clearly isn't crap. I'm not sure it's the managers who are the problem.

[Since452]

Would we get the Lennon of post January 2018 transfer window which was fantastic? Or would we get the Lennon of the championship season? 14 turgid draws in an awful league. Or the Lennon of season 18/19 which was a complete train wreck? The thought of Lennon coming back fills me with nothing but dread.

[CallumLaidlaw]

As I alluded to further up, we had 4 unreal months with Lennon. Our championship season was more boring than the previous 2 seasons, but didn’t have Hearts or Rangers to contend with. First 4 months in the Prem were ok, with a couple of big results padding it out, and then the second half due to the Kamberi, Allan and MacLaren signings was superb. Following season very quickly was dreadful, and he’d worked his ticket for months before his farce of a departure.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[CallumLaidlaw]

Would we get the Lennon of post January 2018 transfer window which was fantastic? Or would we get the Lennon of the championship season? 14 turgid draws in an awful league. Or the Lennon of season 18/19 which was a complete train wreck? The thought of Lennon coming back fills me with nothing but dread.

Snap


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Crunchie]

Why would we give McInnes that time when basically nobody before him has been afforded that? You mention Heckingbottom. He's doing great in the EPL yet we emptied him pretty quickly. We've been through so many managers that it can't be all poor appointments, crap managers etc. Hecky clearly isn't crap. I'm not sure it's the managers who are the problem.
Spot on, Hecky was subjected to the same abuse LJ is getting now along with accusations he couldn't manage yet the same people are doing it again, they'll never learn and are the real reason we've not progressed as we should have and never will unless we get lucky.

[snedzuk]

I read someone on Twitter earlier saying Hibs were a government tool designed to ruin people's weekends so much that going back to work on a Monday didn't seem all that bad.

Quite possibly the funniest thing I've seen on here.

[WhileTheChief..]

Much of that is true.

But the negatives of firing a manager, disruption, loss of continuity, finance, time to adapt, transfer impact....and the fact that there's zero certainty it actually gets is what we want...means it's too early to sack him.

Nah, he’s causing us damage every day he’s here.

I don’t know so many are so scared of making the change. I doubt we could hire anyone to do a worse job.

We absolute should make the change asap. Doing nothing is far more risky.

[WhileTheChief..]

Spot on, Hecky was subjected to the same abuse LJ is getting now along with accusations he couldn't manage yet the same people are doing it again, they'll never learn and are the real reason we've not progressed as we should have and never will unless we get lucky.

Heckingbottom was never interested in Hibs.

If he cared as much as he does about his current club he’d have done far better up here. We were absolutely right to bin him when we did.

[Crunchie]

Heckingbottom was never interested in Hibs.

If he cared as much as he does about his current club we’d have done far better up here. We were absolutely right to bin him when we did.
Says you

[jeffers]

Spot on, Hecky was subjected to the same abuse LJ is getting now along with accusations he couldn't manage yet the same people are doing it again, they'll never learn and are the real reason we've not progressed as we should have and never will unless we get lucky.

Do you think he did a good job with us and was unfairly sacked ? He’s the only manager I can think of that has went on to better things after we fired them, but at the time I don’t remember many complaints. I think he underestimated the league and signed players who simply weren’t good enough.

[Lago]

I’d happily take McInnes for 4-5 years
What makes you think he would come?

[Since452]

Spot on, Hecky was subjected to the same abuse LJ is getting now along with accusations he couldn't manage yet the same people are doing it again, they'll never learn and are the real reason we've not progressed as we should have and never will unless we get lucky.

:agree: The name calling and personal insults were exactly the same. Some people weren't interested in giving him a chance despite coming in and salvaging Lennon's car crash attempt of a season. Guy is now managing in the EPL. Same with Jack Ross. Couldn't wait to get pilled in. Johnson is just the latest manager to be slaughtered. It's absolutely pathetic and cant be arsed with it. Shocking way to treat folk that are trying their best for our club.

Anyway. Bowing off this site for a while i think. Not doing me any good.

[Crunchie]

Do you think he did a good job with us and was unfairly sacked ? He’s the only manager I can think of that has went on to better things after we fired them, but at the time I don’t remember many complaints. I think he underestimated the league and signed players who simply weren’t good enough.
He obviously didn't, but nor was he afforded the time, much the same as Ross and a few before him. Go on any kind of bad run and they're baying for your head, many were after LJ after he was appointed because of the Hearts connection.

[jacomo]

I’d happily take McInnes for 4-5 years


Were that to happen, I’d imagine it playing out similar to Jack Ross: we’d be competent and tough to beat most weeks, but a significant proportion of the fanbase would complain that they were bored.

[Crunchie]

:agree: The name calling and personal insults were exactly the same. Some people weren't interested in giving him a chance despite coming in and salvaging Lennon's car crash attempt of a season. Guy is now managing in the EPL. Same with Jack Ross. Couldn't wait to get pilled in. Johnson is just the latest manager to be slaughtered. It's absolutely pathetic and cant be arsed with it. Shocking way to treat folk that are trying their best for our club.

Anyway. Bowing off this site for a while i think. Not doing me any good.
:agree: Totally agree and I think I'll do the same GGTTH

[jeffers]

He obviously didn't, but nor was he afforded the time, much the same as Ross and a few before him. Go on any kind of bad run and they're baying for your head, many were after LJ after he was appointed because of the Hearts connection.

It’s the nature of the beast though. We aren’t unique in that respect. Someone posted that Johnson was something like the 5th longest serving manager in our league.

I can only speak for myself but the fact Johnson played for Hearts never even entered my thoughts when we appointed him.

[Lago]

Heckingbottom was never interested in Hibs.

If he cared as much as he does about his current club he’d have done far better up here. We were absolutely right to bin him when we did.
How do you know that, he got the same criticism L. J. is getting, doesn’t know Scottish football, only signing lower league English players, can't set up the team, lost the dressing room, yada, yada, yada.

[jacomo]

Do you think he did a good job with us and was unfairly sacked ? He’s the only manager I can think of that has went on to better things after we fired them, but at the time I don’t remember many complaints. I think he underestimated the league and signed players who simply weren’t good enough.


I think this is fair comment. He steadied the ship but the team after the summer transfer window looked all over the place.

[B.H.F.C]

I think this is fair comment. He steadied the ship but the team after the summer transfer window looked all over the place.

Sure Hecky left with something like 1 win in his last 15 in the league. No manager surviving that.

[WhileTheChief..]

:agree: The name calling and personal insults were exactly the same. Some people weren't interested in giving him a chance despite coming in and salvaging Lennon's car crash attempt of a season. Guy is now managing in the EPL. Same with Jack Ross. Couldn't wait to get pilled in. Johnson is just the latest manager to be slaughtered. It's absolutely pathetic and cant be arsed with it. Shocking way to treat folk that are trying their best for our club.

Anyway. Bowing off this site for a while i think. Not doing me any good.

But you want us to stick with one of the worst managers we’ve ever had.

Shocking way to support your club.

[WhileTheChief..]

How do you know that, he got the same criticism L. J. is getting, doesn’t know Scottish football, only signing lower league English players, can't set up the team, lost the dressing room, yada, yada, yada.

Watch any interview with PH from his time at Hibs, then compare to any interview he did last year.

If you can’t see the difference, I don’t know what else to say or do to help you understand where I’m coming from.

[Steven79]

As I alluded to further up, we had 4 unreal months with Lennon. Our championship season was more boring than the previous 2 seasons, but didn’t have Hearts or Rangers to contend with. First 4 months in the Prem were ok, with a couple of big results padding it out, and then the second half due to the Kamberi, Allan and MacLaren signings was superb. Following season very quickly was dreadful, and he’d worked his ticket for months before his farce of a departure.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThis.

Lennon might seem a good idea to many but in reality it would be a mistake.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

[basehibby]

But you want us to stick with one of the worst managers we’ve ever had.

Shocking way to support your club.

That's BS and you know it. None of our worst managers improved us by 4 places in the league and qualified for Europe in their first season.

Your hyperbole is childish and pathetic.

[flash]

But you want us to stick with one of the worst managers we’ve ever had.

Shocking way to support your club.

Ridiculous post.

[easty]

But you want us to stick with one of the worst managers we’ve ever had.



:faf:

[eastmainsmsh]

With respect to the Gordon Family if it had been any other club the lot of them would’ve been sacked kensell as well

[jeffers]

With respect to the Gordon Family if it had been any other club the lot of them would’ve been sacked kensell as well

Out of interest why Kensell ?

[Allant1981]

But you want us to stick with one of the worst managers we’ve ever had.

Shocking way to support your club.

One of the worst manager!! Calderwood, maloney, Duffy, Sauzee(not very long to be fair), Williamson, fenlon, Terry butcher and possibly mixu were all worse, in my opinion obviously

[basehibby]

My views on LJ are well documented but there isn’t doubt that playing in Europe Thursday and league games Sunday is a hard ask

We are either totally inept behind the scenes medically or the unluckiest team in history but it’s a constant stream of injuries meaning we never play a settled side.

Whether LJ would or would persist with the scattergun approach usually employed is another matter

We will be out of Europe in 3 weeks max and I woukd give him the first run of fixtures to prove definitively whether we have made any progress since last season or not once these mitigating factors are gone.

Great post.
I've probably come across as some kind of LJ uberfan lately as I've been countering some of the more ludicrous foaming at the mouth stuff on here and as a result probably come across as somewhat partisan. Truth is though I'm giving no more support to him than I would any other Hibs manager in similar circumstances.
Like with any Hibs manager I want him to succeed and to be given a sufficient crack at the whip to do so.
It's certainly true we've had a crap start to the league and that will certainly count against him in any reckoning. As you say though there is currently the mitigating factor of European ties every Thu to contend with. This team along with LJ needs to learn to cope with that sooner rather than later though. 6 points dropped in the league is bad enough. 3 league losses on the trot and/or an early cup exit would be an atrocious start to the season and would indicate that lessons are NOT being learned - in which case I'd probably have to agree that he is definitely not up to the job. Other than that, as you say, first round of fixtures would be a reasonable time to re-assess.

[WhileTheChief..]

That's BS and you know it. None of our worst managers improved us by 4 places in the league and qualified for Europe in their first season.

Your hyperbole is childish and pathetic.

Really?

I think he’s one of the worst in my lifetime. Not hyperbole or childish, just an honest opinion

Your post is ridiculously antagonistic for no reason. I’ve never once called you a name or been rude to you.

Go do one.

[WhileTheChief..]

One of the worst manager!! Calderwood, maloney, Duffy, Sauzee(not very long to be fair), Williamson, fenlon, Terry butcher and possibly mixu were all worse, in my opinion obviously

I put LJ alongside Maloney. Butcher, Duffy and Calderwood. Probably include Auld, Stanton and Blackley if we go further back.

Fenlon, Mixu and Williamson were generally poor but I didn’t mind them as much as the others.

[JohnM1875]

This Thursday/Sunday excuse annoys me. What's the point in even qualifying for Europe then if we can't hack it?

Hearts played Thursday/Sunday in the group stages and still finished above us in the league.

That performance yesterday was as bad or worse than anything we witnessed under Ross and Maloney. Including the lack of shots on target.

[I'm Spartacus]

Why would we give McInnes that time when basically nobody before him has been afforded that? You mention Heckingbottom. He's doing great in the EPL yet we emptied him pretty quickly. We've been through so many managers that it can't be all poor appointments, crap managers etc. Hecky clearly isn't crap. I'm not sure it's the managers who are the problem.

Because he clearly knows the Scottish game, and loves himself only a little less than LJ, the teeth whitening contract could still continue :)

[Cat Stanton]

Really?

I think he’s one of the worst in my lifetime. Not hyperbole or childish, just an honest opinion

Your post is ridiculously antagonistic for no reason. I’ve never once called you a name or been rude to you.

Go do one.

You kept it together admirably there under unwarranted provocation - until the last line..

[KWJ]

I put LJ alongside Maloney. Butcher, Duffy and Calderwood. Probably include Auld, Stanton and Blackley if we go further back.

Fenlon, Mixu and Williamson were generally poor but I didn’t mind them as much as the others.

Think that through.

[Cat Stanton]

I put LJ alongside Maloney. Butcher, Duffy and Calderwood. Probably include Auld, Stanton and Blackley if we go further back.

Fenlon, Mixu and Williamson were generally poor but I didn’t mind them as much as the others.

The less said about Fenlon, the better. And Williamson was dire ("if you want entertainment..." etc etc). Paul Sturrock did us the favour of the century by recommending Williamson to Portsmouth (was it Portsmouth?) to replace him when he left.

In fact that's what we need now - someone completely off their head who can recommend Johnson for another job....

[Paulie Walnuts]

Great post.
I've probably come across as some kind of LJ uberfan lately as I've been countering some of the more ludicrous foaming at the mouth stuff on here and as a result probably come across as somewhat partisan. Truth is though I'm giving no more support to him than I would any other Hibs manager in similar circumstances.
Like with any Hibs manager I want him to succeed and to be given a sufficient crack at the whip to do so.
It's certainly true we've had a crap start to the league and that will certainly count against him in any reckoning. As you say though there is currently the mitigating factor of European ties every Thu to contend with. This team along with LJ needs to learn to cope with that sooner rather than later though. 6 points dropped in the league is bad enough. 3 league losses on the trot and/or an early cup exit would be an atrocious start to the season and would indicate that lessons are NOT being learned - in which case I'd probably have to agree that he is definitely not up to the job. Other than that, as you say, first round of fixtures would be a reasonable time to re-assess.

So you think he’s one defeat away from not being up to the job yet you are quite adamant he currently is the man for the job judging by your other posts :confused:

[eastmainsmsh]

Out of interest why Kensell ?

Hey ho maybe harsh but just pissed off with inconsistent results and performances thought Thursday was turning point

[jacomo]

But you want us to stick with one of the worst managers we’ve ever had.

Shocking way to support your club.


This is a ridiculous response.

[jeffers]

Hey ho maybe harsh but just pissed off with inconsistent results and performances thought Thursday was turning point

Fair enough. I think on balance he’s doing a good job. I think the managerial appointments have been poor but he wasn’t alone in the recruitment process and we sought the advice of someone with considerable football experience when appointing Johnson. Manager aside I think we are in an excellent place.

[coldingham hibs]

This Thursday/Sunday excuse annoys me. What's the point in even qualifying for Europe then if we can't hack it?

Hearts played Thursday/Sunday in the group stages and still finished above us in the league.

That performance yesterday was as bad or worse than anything we witnessed under Ross and Maloney. Including the lack of shots on target.

Have to agree, pathetic excuse. Luzern lost an injury time goal against the top Swiss club which stopped them winning the game. I’d imagine that would be a harder game for them than playing Motherwell away.

[JimBHibees]

Think that through.

Would throw in Williamson Auld and Calderwood as worse also

[Aldo]

This Thursday/Sunday excuse annoys me. What's the point in even qualifying for Europe then if we can't hack it?

Hearts played Thursday/Sunday in the group stages and still finished above us in the league.

That performance yesterday was as bad or worse than anything we witnessed under Ross and Maloney. Including the lack of shots on target.

If it wasn’t that it would be something else.
What about his formations/tactics etc rather than looking at excise after excuse.

Cannot remember exactly who it was but think it may have been Brightside. You have a group of players all of which have differing strengths/weaknesses etc. how about we play a team where players play to their strengths not trying to be smart and play players out of position etc

Keep it simple and put out a balanced team where they all know what they are supposed to do. When we were pumping balls to Doidge i never heard or saw LJ or any of the coaching staff telling them to get the ball down and play and I’ve not heard him say the players didn’t do as instructed post match.

For a manager of more than 500 games I think he’s pretty clueless when it comes to Plan A let alone plan B or C.

His time is up for me

[JeMeSouviens]

The less said about Fenlon, the better. And Williamson was dire ("if you want entertainment..." etc etc). Paul Sturrock did us the favour of the century by recommending Williamson to Portsmouth (was it Portsmouth?) to replace him when he left.

In fact that's what we need now - someone completely off their head who can recommend Johnson for another job....

Plymouth.

The entertainment quote was actually made when he was Killie manager after sitting in at ER hoping for a draw.

[Lago]

Watch any interview with PH from his time at Hibs, then compare to any interview he did last year.

If you can’t see the difference, I don’t know what else to say or do to help you understand where I’m coming from.
I don't think even you know where you're coming from:greengrin

[WhileTheChief..]

You kept it together admirably there under unwarranted provocation - until the last line..

Yeah I lowered myself to his level so he could understand!

[He's here!]

I put LJ alongside Maloney. Butcher, Duffy and Calderwood. Probably include Auld, Stanton and Blackley if we go further back.

Fenlon, Mixu and Williamson were generally poor but I didn’t mind them as much as the others.

Hard to compare their tenures with the others you mention. They were all operating on a shoestring and signing even one player during the close season was a struggle. Against that backdrop none of them did an awful job. Bertie's teams were unspectacular for sure and we seemed to draw 0-0 or 1-1 most weeks, but he ensured we were never in danger of dropping straight back into the First Division. These were the days when we were travelling around in minibuses looking for available patches of grass to train on and Stanton and Blackley did the best they could in the circumstances as relatively untried young managers who only wanted the best for Hibs. They brought through youngsters like Collins, Kane, May, Weir, Milne, Hunter etc and Blackley took us on a couple of cracking cup runs (as well as signing Gordon Durie).

What I think is easy to overlook when we're regularly losing to the likes of St Mirren and Motherwell is that we are actually a big club in Scottish football terms and there's a pressure which comes with that for both players and managers. It's something Duffy and Butcher failed to deal with, having had reasonable success at other clubs.

I wasn't able to go to last Thursday's game, but even with the ground only about two-thirds full the atmosphere (even watching on TV) just reminded you of how big/successful this club could be. That's what's so frustrating about the fact we seem stuck in this one step forward two steps back pattern. I personally can't make my mind up on LJ. I think he knows where he wants to take us and believes he can do it - and if you look at his overall managerial record it's very decent. He really isn't a dud.

[Allant1981]

I put LJ alongside Maloney. Butcher, Duffy and Calderwood. Probably include Auld, Stanton and Blackley if we go further back.

Fenlon, Mixu and Williamson were generally poor but I didn’t mind them as much as the others.

Sorry but there's not a chance on this planet he is as bad as butcher

[basehibby]

Do you think he did a good job with us and was unfairly sacked ? He’s the only manager I can think of that has went on to better things after we fired them, but at the time I don’t remember many complaints. I think he underestimated the league and signed players who simply weren’t good enough.
To be fair re his signings, Doidge and Newell both turned out to be good signings although it took them a while to settle. There was only one - a midfielder who's name escapes me - that I remember being an outright failure. Trouble with Hecky was his style was too flat - too bland - meaning inevitably he was cut zero slack as soon as he hit a rocky patch. NB - as I recall he also had an irritating tendency to afford too much respect to the OF resulting in a succession of spineless defeats against them.

[Cat Stanton]

Plymouth.

The entertainment quote was actually made when he was Killie manager after sitting in at ER hoping for a draw.

You're right. I stand corrected. But in fairness both begin with a P and ended with a mouth.

And Williamson certainly brought his previously expressed "entertainment" philosophy with him...!

[jeffers]

To be fair re his signings, Doidge and Newell both turned out to be good signings although it took them a while to settle. There was only one - a midfielder who's name escapes me - that I remember being an outright failure. Trouble with Hecky was his style was too flat - too bland - meaning inevitably he was cut zero slack as soon as he hit a rocky patch. NB - as I recall he also had an irritating tendency to afford too much respect to the OF resulting in a succession of spineless defeats against them.

Josh Vela.

Then add in Tom James. Newell and Doidge did come good, but he signed Newell as a wide man. Saying that I quite liked Adam Jackson.

Warning signs for me appeared when we played Celtic in the cup at ER.

[lyonhibs]

But you want us to stick with one of the worst managers we’ve ever had.

Shocking way to support your club.

One of the worst managers ever?!?

Either you've been a Hibs fan for about 20 minutes or that's a "look at me me me" style post.

I'm not a fan, think he'll be gone in a few months but let's not lose the heid here.

[greenpaper55]

How is it the OF get results week in week out with midweek games as well, ? I know they sign a better quality of player but that doesn’t explain how they are up for most games , I suspect they know that performances like our bad days will just never be tolerated

[JamesHFC]

Josh Vela.

Then add in Tom James. Newell and Doidge did come good, but he signed Newell as a wide man. Saying that I quite liked Adam Jackson.

Warning signs for me appeared when we played Celtic in the cup at ER.

I think he would have got more time if we didn't blow that 1-0 lead at home to Hearts. Boyle was out injured and Porteous was just returning from a long term knee injury too.

The Gordon's had just arrived and when fans were raging they must have been thinking "oh we must do something here".

He's gone on to prove he's a good manager though. I genuinely feel that at Hibs the fan base is far too quick to get on the back of managers and players after a couple of bad results/performances.

[Bridge hibs]

How is it the OF get results week in week out with midweek games as well, ? I know they sign a better quality of player but that doesn’t explain how they are up for most games , I suspect they know that performances like our bad days will just never be tolerated

Probably because they have big squads and can replace quality with quality if they need to, although in saying that I think both celtc and the rangers have suffered “euro hangovers” in the past, St Mirren beating celtc last season springs to mind

[Dashing Bob S]

Much more consistent than the opening game against St Mirren.

We were crap for 90 mins instead of just the first half.

[Hibbyradge]

Probably because they have big squads and can replace quality with quality if they need to, although in saying that I think both celtc and the rangers have suffered “euro hangovers” in the past, St Mirren beating celtc last season springs to mind

It's a common event. I started a thread about being concerned about Euro "hangovers" before we played our first game in Andorra.

It's also common that when a team peaks and has a great performance and result, the following game is disappointing. The manager won't say that before the game because it gives the wrong message to the players, but even the best teams can struggle in the next game after great European results.

[tonyrougier123]

He hasn’t fixed the defence,we have no discernible style of play.
We concede far too many goals against weak opposition almost always chasing our tails in a match.
Home advantage is an issue under his watch still.
He doesn’t seem to be able to strike a balance in midfield.
And creeping in more regularly is players just punting up field hoping the faster players will bail out our poor possession play at times.

There’s only repetition of old habits under this guy and we have a squad which you’d think could hurdle these issues if coached well to avoid the same on field mistakes time and again.

We’ve spent and that’s great,but the cb and left back and goalkeeper issues are unresolved. I’d still be hoping for a cb who’s strong and leads. Fish and Hanlon need a leader in there!

[Dashing Bob S]

He’s been well supported by the board. If we don’t improve he will be gone by Christmas. We have the squad for 3rd place, but so far in the League, the performance levels for 12th

[WhileTheChief..]

One of the worst managers ever?!?

Either you've been a Hibs fan for about 20 minutes or that's a "look at me me me" style post.

I'm not a fan, think he'll be gone in a few months but let's not lose the heid here.

Answered already, see my previous reply.

Bertie Auld was manager when I went to my first Hibs game.

[blackpoolhibs]

He’s been well supported by the board. If we don’t improve he will be gone by Christmas. We have the squad for 3rd place, but so far in the League, the performance levels for 12th

No chance we have a squad for 3rd, no full backs for a start, 2 centre halves that are slow, and a keeper who is alergic to footballs.

We can score goals, but a team as weak as we are with that defence, and we still have most of THAT midfield, will never be consistant enough to make 3rd place.

[Tambo]

A heavy defeat on Thursday and a poor performance/, result Sunday then alot of fans won't hold back.

It took a hecky and jack Ross GTF chant then they were both gone.

I want Johnson to succeed and will support him but starting to get fed up with him now.

[Bridge hibs]

It's a common event. I started a thread about being concerned about Euro "hangovers" before we played our first game in Andorra.

It's also common that when a team peaks and has a great performance and result, the following game is disappointing. The manager won't say that before the game because it gives the wrong message to the players, but even the best teams can struggle in the next game after great European results.Yeah I remember always wanting to play celtc or the rangers after euro games in the hope they would be a bit fatigued or had maybe picked up a couple of unlucky injuries

[He's here!]

I don’t expect any Hibs manager to be with us for longer than 2-3 seasons. What I would like is to see one who does such a good job another club wants him as their manager.

Trying to think when that last happened (ie when we last didn't sack a manager). Must have been Mowbray to West Brom. Prior to that McLeish to Rangers. And going way back before that Stein to Celtic.

Stein obviously wrote himself into Celtic folklore, McLeish won a treble at Rangers plus a cup at Birmingham, while Mowbray has consistently managed at a strong level since he left us.

[Not In The Know]

I feel we are still at the stage with folk listing reasons NOT to sack him e.g we cant keep sacking managers, he needs time!?! Rather than listing reasons why we SHOULD keep him e.g you can see what he's building etc...

[greenlex]

I don’t expect any Hibs manager to be with us for longer than 2-3 seasons. What I would like is to see one who does such a good job another club wants him as their manager.
I’ll add in I’d like to see clear succession management on both the footballing front and Kensells role. We seem to drift from mini crisis to mini crisis with ease.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Trying to think when that last happened (ie when we last didn't sack a manager). Must have been Mowbray to West Brom. Prior to that McLeish to Rangers. And going way back before that Stein to Celtic.

Stein obviously wrote himself into Celtic folklore, McLeish won a treble at Rangers plus a cup at Birmingham, while Mowbray has consistently managed at a strong level since he left us.
Stubbs to Rotherham

[A Hi-Bee]

Edinburgh festival, I heard that LJ is staying behind this week, trying out at the comedey club.
:greengrin

[jacomo]

I think he would have got more time if we didn't blow that 1-0 lead at home to Hearts. Boyle was out injured and Porteous was just returning from a long term knee injury too.

The Gordon's had just arrived and when fans were raging they must have been thinking "oh we must do something here".

He's gone on to prove he's a good manager though. I genuinely feel that at Hibs the fan base is far too quick to get on the back of managers and players after a couple of bad results/performances.


:agree:

We are a volatile support, no question. Emotions never far from the surface.

[KWJ]

Would throw in Williamson Auld and Calderwood as worse also

There's debate to be had with those but Duffy and Butcher stand out is the worst of the worst for relegating us.

[BSEJVT]

I put LJ alongside Maloney. Butcher, Duffy and Calderwood. Probably include Auld, Stanton and Blackley if we go further back.

Fenlon, Mixu and Williamson were generally poor but I didn’t mind them as much as the others.

Thats ridiculously harsh on Auld, and in particular Stanton & Blackley, at the time those 2 were managers we didn't have a pot to piss in and they were left to field very makeshift sides.

Stanton as a manager / coach was very highly regarded by none other than SAF

[matty_f]

Josh Vela.

Then add in Tom James. Newell and Doidge did come good, but he signed Newell as a wide man. Saying that I quite liked Adam Jackson.

Warning signs for me appeared when we played Celtic in the cup at ER.
Newell was signed as a centre mid, then for whatever reason, Hecky tried him wide to begin with. Joe himself said that the conversations with Hecky when he was signing were around playing central.

[KWJ]

I feel we are still at the stage with folk listing reasons NOT to sack him e.g we cant keep sacking managers, he needs time!?! Rather than listing reasons why we SHOULD keep him e.g you can see what he's building etc...

Because he's under contract. Is he doing badly enough to end that already, was it a 4 year deal?

Aren't we still paying off Maloney and even Jack?

It's not a crowd pleaser but it is a reason.

[Paulie Walnuts]

Because he's under contract. Is he doing badly enough to end that already, was it a 4 year deal?

Aren't we still paying off Maloney and even Jack?

It's not a crowd pleaser but it is a reason.

They’re probably more along the ‘can’t keep sacking managers’ reason though.

From a football point of view there’s next to no argument left for him imo.

[Onion]

I feel we are still at the stage with folk listing reasons NOT to sack him e.g we cant keep sacking managers, he needs time!?! Rather than listing reasons why we SHOULD keep him e.g you can see what he's building etc...

LJ is just lucky. Hibs don't have money to get shot of him or competence to pick anyone better. We've as much chance of getting a better manager by sticking a list on .net and allowing all of us to vote - as allowing Hibs Board to go through whatever process they do.

[Onion]

Because he's under contract. Is he doing badly enough to end that already, was it a 4 year deal?

Aren't we still paying off Maloney and even Jack?

It's not a crowd pleaser but it is a reason.

That's the very definition of paying for others' ineptitude :greengrin

[HoboHarry]

Thats ridiculously harsh on Auld, and in particular Stanton & Blackley, at the time those 2 were managers we didn't have a pot to piss in and they were left to field very makeshift sides.

Stanton as a manager / coach was very highly regarded by none other than SAF
Not just highly regarded IIRC, was a coach at Aberdeen for SAF was he not? Or am I mistaken?

[Caversham Green]

Josh Vela.

Then add in Tom James. Newell and Doidge did come good, but he signed Newell as a wide man. Saying that I quite liked Adam Jackson.

Warning signs for me appeared when we played Celtic in the cup at ER.

I don't think Hecky or anyone else should be blamed for the signing of Vela. He was very highly regarded down here at the time and the one game I saw him play he was by far the best player on the pitch - streets ahead of Newell, who I'd seen a few times and thought was a very good signing for Hibs.

I've no idea why he has failed so badly but the blame lies squarely at the door of Josh Vela IMHO.