Brexit - What Now.

[Mibbes Aye]

Thanks.

I saw it and he was making a point of the popular vote in Scotland being against Brexit and he needed to stand up for those voters, which isn’t unreasonable. While it is true in very broad terms, it is a wee bit cheeky as there were significant numbers in Scotland and indeed the SNP who voted for Leave. It is an uncomfortable truth for the SNP and indeed for Scottish Remain voters that a lot of people wanted Brexit.

But that’s politics and if I was in his shoes I would no doubt play it the same way.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Careful what you wish for. In my particular echo chamber, the remoaners are now considered to be traitors and Boris is the messiah.

Aye right :greengrin. Well, I don't have an echo chamber, Bozo has always been a James Hunt and still is. I'm appalled by the right wing populism of him and the Brexit movement. I voted against independence in the last referendum but would vote in favour in another vote. Scotland in the EU is so much better than Brexit Britain. This is a shambles, all because of Cameron thinking the way to stop the Tories losing votes to UKIP was to offer an EU referendum. I've had enough of being a plaything of political elites who have no brains but huge hubris. It's all related to class and the absence of true democracy. Public schoolboys are playing their power games, with no thought to the lives of millions. No more.

[NOLA]

Bojo trying his best to be Britain’s answer to trump is laughable, no amount of chest beating and hollering is going to appeal to the wider public at large, it’s already turning his own party members against him and I feel personally he’s believed his own hype to the point of no return

[Hibrandenburg]

I saw it and he was making a point of the popular vote in Scotland being against Brexit and he needed to stand up for those voters, which isn’t unreasonable. While it is true in very broad terms, it is a wee bit cheeky as there were significant numbers in Scotland and indeed the SNP who voted for Leave. It is an uncomfortable truth for the SNP and indeed for Scottish Remain voters that a lot of people wanted Brexit.

But that’s politics and if I was in his shoes I would no doubt play it the same way.

Fair enough, but I'm fairly confident he feels he's speaking for the majority of Scots.

[Ozyhibby]

Corbyn now has the luxury of being able to call an election at a time of his choosing. He should wait and leave Johnson in position but not power for a while. No point rushing it when every day will show his weakness more and more.


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[lord bunberry]

It's worse than you think, apparently we're still at war with Germany and this is just Hitler's long game playing out. I don't know what's in the water south of the Tweed, but it's potent stuff.
The fourth reich awaits us if we don’t leave on October 31st.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190903/90ff004a57fc0d646f67b63143f13f7e.jpg


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[Ozyhibby]

If Corbyn is smart he waits until the Oct 31 deadline has passed and we are still in the Eu. That keeps the Brexit Party in play against the Tories.


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[Hibernia&Alba]

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AAGL44A.img?h=423&w=634&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=292&y=131

Self-entitled **** holds us in contempt on the front bench as tonight's vote is held. This is a farce, we need a semblance of sanity.

[Hibernia&Alba]

If Corbyn is smart he waits until the Oct 31 deadline has passed and we are still in the Eu. That keeps the Brexit Party in play against the Tories.


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We won't be. We will have left with no deal, unless there is a general election first.

[Ozyhibby]

We won't be. We will have left with no deal, unless there is a general election first.

Tomorrow a bill will be passed compelling the govt to ask for an extension? Johnson will have to comply with the law.


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[1875godsgift]

Tomorrow a bill will be passed compelling the govt to ask for an extension? Johnson will have to comply with the law.


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Can the house of lords stop it though?

[lord bunberry]

Can the house of lords stop it though?
Yes they can and there’s already 80 amendments to the bill, they could try and fillybuster the bill.

[1875godsgift]

Yes they can and there’s already 80 amendments to the bill, they could try and fillybuster the bill.

So what happens then? :dunno:

[lord bunberry]

So what happens then? :dunno:
It’s unlikely to be successful, but if it is then the bill wouldn’t pass. I think it would then pass back to the House of Commons again. After that I’ve no idea as it wasn’t a government bill so it would probably take another vote in the House of Commons again.

[1875godsgift]

It’s unlikely to be successful, but if it is then the bill wouldn’t pass. I think it would then pass back to the House of Commons again. After that I’ve no idea as it wasn’t a government bill so it would probably take another vote in the House of Commons again.

Thanks, I've always been confused by their purpose and powers, it seems strange having an un-elected body of rich people as a potential spanner in the works.

Also, what was the point of Jacob Rees-Mogg's comatose posturing?

I think it was obviously stage-managed, the guy is a complete bell-end but has a modicum of intelligence and would have been aware of the potential reaction?

[lord bunberry]

Thanks, I've always been confused by their purpose and powers, it seems strange having an un-elected body of rich people as a potential spanner in the works.

Also, what was the point of Jacob Rees-Mogg's comatose posturing?

I think it was obviously stage-managed, the guy is a complete bell-end but has a modicum of intelligence and would have been aware of the potential reaction?
He doesn’t care what people think of him, he’ll be alright no matter what the outcome of all this is.

[Colr]

Not Corbyn, popular alternatives seem to be Ken Clarke or Yvette Cooper, Jo Swinson probably thinks she's in with a shot, but she'll find herself being ignored by everyone else.

Can’t see it being Clarke. Too pro-EU.
Letwin? He would keep the rebel Tories on board.

Blair (joking)!!

[lapsedhibee]

With 21 less Tory mp’s then we could have a new govt by tomorrow if mp’s wanted it.



There has to be a general election first.

Not necessarily. A vote of no confidence in the current government allows the house of commons to try to come up with an alternative government. If an alternative government can be shown to command a majority, Betty gives the go-ahead for it to crack on.

[Moulin Yarns]

I saw it and he was making a point of the popular vote in Scotland being against Brexit and he needed to stand up for those voters, which isn’t unreasonable. While it is true in very broad terms, it is a wee bit cheeky as there were significant numbers in Scotland and indeed the SNP who voted for Leave. It is an uncomfortable truth for the SNP and indeed for Scottish Remain voters that a lot of people wanted Brexit.

But that’s politics and if I was in his shoes I would no doubt play it the same way.

IMHO all MPs should be representing their constituencies, and in Scotland every constituency voted remain. Yes, MPs are whipped to toe the party line but if they have a conscience then they represent their constituencies.

[Ozyhibby]

Given the numbers now in Parliament, they should go straight for a 2nd referendum.


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[lapsedhibee]

IMHO all MPs should be representing their constituencies, and in Scotland every constituency voted remain. Yes, MPs are whipped to toe the party line but if they have a conscience then they represent their constituencies.

If MPs are to be mere mouthpieces for the people, then wouldn't it be more cost effective to have Farage's 'direct democracy' where people press a button on their computer to decide government policy?

[Moulin Yarns]

Ha, ha. Did anyone see the Sarah Smith piece outside holyrood o on the BBC news?

I really expected someone to have seen it or asked me to explain

Anyways, the bright moment from the news for everyone to enjoy.



Perils of live broadcasting on a momentous night - watch for the cyclist coming in from the left https://t.co/aU1E95EGY7 (http://https://t.co/aU1E95EGY7)

[Callum_62]

Think the Cherry hearing verdict is due around 10am this morning

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[Ozyhibby]

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/09/will-jeremy-corbyn-keep-boris-johnson-dangling/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


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[Callum_62]

Think the Cherry hearing verdict is due around 10am this morning

Sent from my VOG-L29 using TapatalkNot unlawful apparently

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[Moulin Yarns]

Not unlawful apparently

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Lord Doherty says power to prorogue Parliament is justiciable in some circumstances, but not in others. All about context; court can’t measure “high policy and political matters” against legal standards”

https://twitter.com/BBCPhilipSim/status/1169177306771918849

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49568760

[CloudSquall]

Can anyone tell me what the group of Scottish Conservatives have done since being elected?

What have they done to "stand up for Scotland"?

Each and every one of them voting along with Boris last night, an absolute shower of career driven *******s.

Can't wait for a general election to #snpgain these ****s.

[Ozyhibby]

I’m glad the court case failed. This is a political issue and it should be sorted out by politicians. The last thing we want in this country is a politicised judiciary like they have in America.


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[JeMeSouviens]

IMHO all MPs should be representing their constituencies, and in Scotland every constituency voted remain. Yes, MPs are whipped to toe the party line but if they have a conscience then they represent their constituencies.

"Represent" doesn't mean slavishly follow the perceived majority view though. Imo they should be using their judgement and the time and resources available to them to decide what they think is the best course of action for their constituents and the wider public.

[CloudSquall]

102 amendments added to the Remainer legislation going to the House of Lords, each one needs to be voted on twice, over a 100 hours of "debate" apparently, they are looking to drag it out as long as they can..

[Cataplana]

102 amendments added to the Remainer legislation going to the House of Lords, each one needs to be voted on twice, over a 100 hours of "debate" apparently, they are looking to drag it out as long as they can..

Taking a stand against abuse of democracy, is not the same thing as saying you want to remain in the EU.

I dread Brexit not happening as it will result in an even bigger sense of grievance amongst those who think the world is against them, and everything they want is ignored, whether it is reasonable, or not.

It could end up in a very dark place.

[JeMeSouviens]

I’m glad the court case failed. This is a political issue and it should be sorted out by politicians. The last thing we want in this country is a politicised judiciary like they have in America.


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I agree with that but at the same time the prorogation shenanigans yet again shows why having an unwritten constitution that relies on a mixture of convention and trusting politicians to behave "honourably" seems woefully out of date and not fit for purpose.

[JeMeSouviens]

Taking a stand against abuse of democracy, is not the same thing as saying you want to remain in the EU.

I dread Brexit not happening as it will result in an even bigger sense of grievance amongst those who think the world is against them, and everything they want is ignored, whether it is reasonable, or not.

It could end up in a very dark place.

Whereas letting a bunch of shysters get away with selling their snake oil is just peachy?

[Cataplana]

Whereas letting a bunch of shysters get away with selling their snake oil is just peachy?

Sorry, I am not sure what point you are making. If it's any help, I want to remain in the European Union, but I also have great fear of a right wing uprising if the thing doesn't go through.

Who are the shysters, and what is the snake oil?

[lapsedhibee]

Taking a stand against abuse of democracy, is not the same thing as saying you want to remain in the EU.

I dread Brexit not happening as it will result in an even bigger sense of grievance amongst those who think the world is against them, and everything they want is ignored, whether it is reasonable, or not.

It could end up in a very dark place.

Are you saying anything very different there from 'bullies and thugs should always get their way'? :dunno:

[Cataplana]

Are you saying anything very different there from 'bullies and thugs should always get their way'? :dunno:

No, I am saying I am frightened.

This all seems to be heading one way, and I actually started off my post by defending the "rebels" in parliament.

If you stand back it is becoming more and more likely that this will be settled by whoever controls the army, in the end.

[JeMeSouviens]

Sorry, I am not sure what point you are making. If it's any help, I want to remain in the European Union, but I also have great fear of a right wing uprising if the thing doesn't go through.

Who are the shysters, and what is the snake oil?

The Eurosceptics and the magical ability to have and eat cake.

[Cataplana]

The Eurosceptics and the magical ability to have and eat cake.

Any chance you could put that into terms the man on the 29 bus can understand? I honestly have no idea what you are saying.

[Moulin Yarns]

Any chance you could put that into terms the man on the 29 bus can understand? I honestly have no idea what you are saying.

It seems clear to me.

The Brexiteers who expect the UK to be the same, if not better than before Brexit.

[JeMeSouviens]

Any chance you could put that into terms the man on the 29 bus can understand? I honestly have no idea what you are saying.

Ok, sorry, more typing needed. :greengrin

What I am saying is that Leave won the EU ref by selling the voters a vision where the UK retained all the economic benefits of EU membership but no longer had to play by any of its rules. Since they deliberately avoided even an outline of how they would achieve this, people had no idea of what they were actually voting for. As soon as you introduce real world trade-offs, eg. single market access vs ending freedom of movement, some of their voters peel off. Any single Brexit option polled never gets a majority.

Imo, if they want to actually Leave, the Brexiters need to come up with a single, achievable plan and put that to a 2nd ref.

[lapsedhibee]

No, I am saying I am frightened.

This all seems to be heading one way, and I actually started off my post by defending the "rebels" in parliament.

If you stand back it is becoming more and more likely that this will be settled by whoever controls the army, in the end.
Bit pessimistic perhaps. There are some good signs, despite his manager's best efforts to avoid any sort of public scrutiny, that Johnson may be getting found out. Without their charismatic :faf: leader the Brexit ultras may pipe down quite a bit, and if they do the remainer ultras will too.

[Cataplana]

Ok, sorry, more typing needed. :greengrin

What I am saying is that Leave won the EU ref by selling the voters a vision where the UK retained all the economic benefits of EU membership but no longer had to play by any of its rules. Since they deliberately avoided even an outline of how they would achieve this, people had no idea of what they were actually voting for. As soon as you introduce real world trade-offs, eg. single market access vs ending freedom of movement, some of their voters peel off. Any single Brexit option polled never gets a majority.

Imo, if they want to actually Leave, the Brexiters need to come up with a single, achievable plan and put that to a 2nd ref.

Thanks, wasn't being arsey, I just wanted to be clear.

That sounds like a plan to me.

[Cataplana]

It seems clear to me.

The Brexiteers who expect the UK to be the same, if not better than before Brexit.

Yes, but you are not me, and I wasn't actually asking you anyway.


Bit pessimistic perhaps. There are some good signs, despite his manager's best efforts to avoid any sort of public scrutiny, that Johnson may be getting found out. Without their charismatic :faf: leader the Brexit ultras may pipe down quite a bit, and if they do the remainer ultras will too.

I pray that it is that simple. I must admit I had hopes that was what I was seeing yesterday, the inevitable car crash that appointing Boris would lead to. Hopefully there is more fun to come, and hopefully even the most die hard "we want ooz koontry back" Brexiteer will see that the thing has to be rethought.

[BroxburnHibee]

I'm no Corbyn fan by any stretch but I've just listened to PMQ's from my sunbed in Lanzarote :greengrin and that was a masterful performance.

I could almost hear Boris's blood pressure rising through my earphones.

I'm beginning to understand this long game hes playing.

[JeMeSouviens]

Thanks, wasn't being arsey, I just wanted to be clear.

That sounds like a plan to me.

No worries.

[Mibbes Aye]

IMHO all MPs should be representing their constituencies, and in Scotland every constituency voted remain. Yes, MPs are whipped to toe the party line but if they have a conscience then they represent their constituencies.

Sorry but that is nonsense. MPs are there to represent all their constituents, not just the ones who voted for them or a stand-alone vote.
By your logic there would be SNP MPs who should be against independence or a referendum in order to respect the votes of their constituents, no? That’s on an assumption that some seats returned SNP MPs but didn’t have a Separate majority.

[Bristolhibby]

Taking a stand against abuse of democracy, is not the same thing as saying you want to remain in the EU.

I dread Brexit not happening as it will result in an even bigger sense of grievance amongst those who think the world is against them, and everything they want is ignored, whether it is reasonable, or not.

It could end up in a very dark place.

No offence, but F them.

We should not be cowed by what they think.

J

[Cataplana]

No offence, but F them.

We should not be cowed by what they think.

J

You are not offending me. I agree with what you say, but I fear that many more people don't and will go along with whatever happens to other people to save their own skin.

[Peevemor]

Sorry but that is nonsense. MPs are there to represent all their constituents, not just the ones who voted for them or a stand-alone vote.
By your logic there would be SNP MPs who should be against independence or a referendum in order to respect the votes of their constituents, no? That’s on an assumption that some seats returned SNP MPs but didn’t have a Separate majority.

So do you think that Malcolm Chisholm was wrong on the occasions that he voted against his party?

[Mibbes Aye]

So do you think that Malcolm Chisholm was wrong on the occasions that he voted against his party?

Not my point as well you know

[Since90+2]

To me Boris seems like he is struggling with the pressure and scrutiny already. If , as expected , he loses tonight and Labour don't vote for a General Election then I can see him trying anything to cling onto power including ignoring the legislation.

If that happens I reckon he will bring the whole Conservative party down as even Tory MPs are unlikely to be able to stomach that course of action.

[Curried]

Corbyn may think he’s in a good position, and able to dictate the timing of any election, but I wonder if the SNP could put a spanner in the works if the FTPA could be amended for a 50% majority (possibly at the bequest of a Section 30 order).

[G B Young]

IMHO all MPs should be representing their constituencies, and in Scotland every constituency voted remain. Yes, MPs are whipped to toe the party line but if they have a conscience then they represent their constituencies.

If that was the case why didn't all the MPs whose constituencies voted for Brexit follow the majority view in their constituencies when it came to voting in Parliament?

They're supposed to represent every constituent whether they voted for them or not - or indeed whether or not they backed Brexit or Scottish independence.

From a Brexit/Scottish perspective it's often overlooked that almost 40% of the electorate voted for Brexit. Not an insignificant minority.

[Peevemor]

If that was the case why didn't all the MPs whose constituencies voted for Brexit follow the majority view in their constituencies when it came to voting in Parliament?

They're supposed to represent every constituent whether they voted for them or not - or indeed whether or not they backed Brexit or Scottish independence.

From a Brexit/Scottish perspective it's often overlooked that almost 40% of the electorate voted for Brexit. Not an insignificant minority.

Simply because a hard Brexit, which is where Bojo is headed if left to his own devices, isn't what was portrayed to the public at the time of the referendum.

[Ozyhibby]

MP’s should exercise their judgement and vote the way they see fit on any issue.
If they vote consistently in a way that a sufficient number of their constituents don’t like them they will lose the next election. That’s how it works.



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[Hibrandenburg]

"Represent" doesn't mean slavishly follow the perceived majority view though. Imo they should be using their judgement and the time and resources available to them to decide what they think is the best course of action for their constituents and the wider public.

What's best for:

1. Country
2. Constituents
3. Party

and in that order.

[Moulin Yarns]

What's best for:

1. Country
2. Constituents
3. Party

and in that order.

Or, if you are a Scottish Conservative mp then it will be

Personal survival

Party

UK

Constituency

[G B Young]

Simply because a hard Brexit, which is where Bojo is headed if left to his own devices, isn't what was portrayed to the public at the time of the referendum.

Why didn't they vote for May's deal then?

[Smartie]

Or, if you are a Scottish Conservative mp then it will be

Personal survival

Party

UK

Constituency

I don't think that's always true.

Take Ruth Davidson - she was quick enough to fall on her sword rather than put her personal survival above anything else.

I think this list of priorities will vary from individual to individual. Tories have an annoying habit of being able to put their party above everything else, although it will be interesting to see how that loyalty holds up going forward after the party has treated so many prominent Tories so shabbily in recent weeks.

And I'd take a bit of convincing that politicians of other persuasions were any better. The greatest socialists, in my experience, will often have an ego that comes before anything else and often to the detriment of those they claim to serve selflessly. We're desperately needing a solid, cohesive, competent unit on that side of the house right now, will they manage to become that? (Corbyn did, admittedly, put on a good performance earlier today.)

Nationalists have in recent years been good at putting the independence cause above anything else.

[CloudSquall]

Ruth Davidson was all about personal survival, she knew she finally had to face up to defending Boris and a no deal Brexit and shat it big time, relegating herself to the backbenches to protect her reputation for any future comeback.

[Cataplana]

I don't think that's always true.

Take Ruth Davidson - she was quick enough to fall on her sword rather than put her personal survival above anything else.

I think this list of priorities will vary from individual to individual. Tories have an annoying habit of being able to put their party above everything else, although it will be interesting to see how that loyalty holds up going forward after the party has treated so many prominent Tories so shabbily in recent weeks.

And I'd take a bit of convincing that politicians of other persuasions were any better. The greatest socialists, in my experience, will often have an ego that comes before anything else and often to the detriment of those they claim to serve selflessly. We're desperately needing a solid, cohesive, competent unit on that side of the house right now, will they manage to become that? (Corbyn did, admittedly, put on a good performance earlier today.)

Nationalists have in recent years been good at putting the independence cause above anything else.

Hardly a great achievement seeing as that single issue is what they are in existence to achieve.

[Moulin Yarns]

I don't think that's always true.

Take Ruth Davidson - she was quick enough to fall on her sword rather than put her personal survival above anything else.

I think this list of priorities will vary from individual to individual. Tories have an annoying habit of being able to put their party above everything else, although it will be interesting to see how that loyalty holds up going forward after the party has treated so many prominent Tories so shabbily in recent weeks.

And I'd take a bit of convincing that politicians of other persuasions were any better. The greatest socialists, in my experience, will often have an ego that comes before anything else and often to the detriment of those they claim to serve selflessly. We're desperately needing a solid, cohesive, competent unit on that side of the house right now, will they manage to become that? (Corbyn did, admittedly, put on a good performance earlier today.)

Nationalists have in recent years been good at putting the independence cause above anything else.

You will notice I am not talking about MSPs, I clearly said MPs.

All the Scottish Tories at Westminster voted against the motion last night. That was personal survival first, party second and the good of the country and constituencies a distant last.

[GORDONSMITH7]

I watched the whole PMQ today. Corbyn utterly battered Boris the Buffoon. He never answered once Corbyn 's requesting for publishing documentation regarding shortages in food, medicine etc with a hard brexit. He went mental whilst loosing the arguments. Following this Ian Blackford got the same blistering guff from the boy Boris. Asked about him ensuring the government would support the result tonight. Asked twice. No answer, just rubbish attacks on the Scottish Government. What an arse.

BIG G

[Peevemor]

Why didn't they vote for May's deal then?

Because the deal wasn't acceptable to them for various reasons - too hard, too soft, backstop, party directives, etc.

[Smartie]

Hardly a great achievement seeing as that single issue is what they are in existence to achieve.

They are also the government, so have a duty to do what is best for the country in that role. Every individual politician will also have opinions on subjects beyond independence which may or may not conflict.

Taking Brexit for an example, they may at times be conflicted between various shade of softer Brexit or remaining in the EU which would be better for the country, or a harder Brexit which may make independence more likely.

[Cataplana]

I watched the whole PMQ today. Corbyn utterly battered Boris the Buffoon. He never answered once Corbyn 's requesting for publishing documentation regarding shortages in food, medicine etc with a hard brexit. He went mental whilst loosing the arguments. Following this Ian Blackford got the same blistering guff from the boy Boris. Asked about him ensuring the government would support the result tonight. Asked twice. No answer, just rubbish attacks on the Scottish Government. What an arse.

BIG G

The thing is, we are not Boris' target audience. That sort of thing will play well in the Shires.

[JeMeSouviens]

Ruth Davidson was all about personal survival, she knew she finally had to face up to defending Boris and a no deal Brexit and shat it big time, relegating herself to the backbenches to protect her reputation for any future comeback.

:agree:

The Tories were going to drop back in Scotland anyway. Ruth getting her resignation in avoids her brand being tainted with this failure.

[Hibrandenburg]

I don't think that's always true.

Take Ruth Davidson - she was quick enough to fall on her sword rather than put her personal survival above anything else.

I think this list of priorities will vary from individual to individual. Tories have an annoying habit of being able to put their party above everything else, although it will be interesting to see how that loyalty holds up going forward after the party has treated so many prominent Tories so shabbily in recent weeks.

And I'd take a bit of convincing that politicians of other persuasions were any better. The greatest socialists, in my experience, will often have an ego that comes before anything else and often to the detriment of those they claim to serve selflessly. We're desperately needing a solid, cohesive, competent unit on that side of the house right now, will they manage to become that? (Corbyn did, admittedly, put on a good performance earlier today.)

Nationalists have in recent years been good at putting the independence cause above anything else.

Nationalists in Scotland believe self determination is the best thing for the country, it's also what their constituents voted them in to do and there's an argument to be made that it could destroy their party if they are successful. All in all they would stand up well to Churchill's thoughts on the priority of duties for members of parliament.

[lapsedhibee]

The thing is, we are not Boris' target audience. That sort of thing will play well in the Shires.

I'm not sure that calling Corbyn a girl's blouse, if that's reported, will necessarily play too well with everyone in the shires. The rubber bath toy is struggling.

[JeMeSouviens]

I'm not sure that calling Corbyn a girl's blouse, if that's reported, will necessarily play too well with everyone in the shires. The rubber bath toy is struggling.

:agree:

Even in the Shires I think going from "I don't want an election, you don't want an election" to screaming "give us an election you big girl's blouse" across the chamber in a couple of days makes you look a total dick.

[Cataplana]

:agree:

Even in the Shires I think going from "I don't want an election, you don't want an election" to screaming "give us an election you big girl's blouse" across the chamber in a couple of days makes you look a total dick.

I am minded to agree. Looking forward to tonight's TV news.

[JeMeSouviens]

Labour split again apparently (groan). The Leader's Office, ie. Milne, Murphy and the other Stalinists, want to agree to an October 15th election as soon as the Benn bill is signed and sealed. Starmer, McDonnell and most MPs want to wait until an extension is secured.

Tweets from Nicola Sturgeon and Ian Blackford calling for the Corbynista position. All other oppo parties in the Starmer camp.

I must say I can't see the motivation (other than impatience) not to let Johnson stew in his own juice.

[xyz23jc]

:agree:

Even in the Shires I think going from "I don't want an election, you don't want an election" to screaming "give us an election you big girl's blouse" across the chamber in a couple of days makes you look a total dick.

We thought that too with the Donald..... And look what happened! 😱

[Cataplana]

I'm not sure that calling Corbyn a girl's blouse, if that's reported, will necessarily play too well with everyone in the shires. The rubber bath toy is struggling.

It wasn't audible, but lip readers would have no trouble.

[G B Young]

Because the deal wasn't acceptable to them for various reasons - too hard, too soft, backstop, party directives, etc.

Or alternatively they simply think they know better than their constituents and will find any number of reasons to vote down ANY deal. From that perspective you can see why the PM is taking the course of action he is because no deal looks to be the only way Brexit can ever happen.

I can't muster much sympathy for the Tory MPs who lost the whip. They've fallen on their swords for what? The right to kick Brexit down the road for another three months (and likely more)? Johnson gets flak for not providing evidence of what progress has been made with the EU to secure a new deal, yet those who portraying themselves as the heroic good guys battling no deal have also failed to provide any indication that they can come up with an alternative.

Can you imagine the furore of the Scottish independence referendum result had gone the other way and three and a half years later we were still part of the UK? Parliament as a whole has been a disgrace over this whole shambles. The whole lot of them should lose the whip.

[G B Young]

It wasn't audible, but lip readers would have no trouble.

Bit like Corbyn calling May a 'stupid woman' at PMQs despite claiming he said 'stupid people'. Mind you, if that's what the PM did say then I'd be surprised if he denied it as he tends to throw that sort of language around unashamedly.

Talking of Corbyn, the fact this whole sorry mess has contrived to make him look vaguely statesmanlike sums up how desperate things have got :confused:

[Callum_62]

Or alternatively they simply think they know better than their constituents and will find any number of reasons to vote down ANY deal. From that perspective you can see why the PM is taking the course of action he is because no deal looks to be the only way Brexit can ever happen.

I can't muster much sympathy for the Tory MPs who lost the whip. They've fallen on their swords for what? The right to kick Brexit down the road for another three months (and likely more)? Johnson gets flak for not providing evidence of what progress has been made with the EU to secure a new deal, yet those who portraying themselves as the heroic good guys battling no deal have also failed to provide any indication that they can come up with an alternative.

Can you imagine the furore of the Scottish independence referendum result had gone the other way and three and a half years later we were still part of the UK? Parliament as a whole has been a disgrace over this whole shambles. The whole lot of them should lose the whip.Parliament were put in an impossible situation by the lying of the leave side which promised the world

It can't happen. The only solution was a soft brexit, which was ruled out all the way by the tories

Blaming parliment for trying to mitigate the loss of jobs and income is, IMHO, wrong

Edit - the silly, simplistic, open. Ended referendum question to a wholly complex situation didn't help

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[greenlex]

General election with parties putting Brexit soft or no deal or remain via a people’s vote in their manifesto. That will get the debate moving.

[Cataplana]

General election with parties putting Brexit soft or no deal or remain via a people’s vote in their manifesto. That will get the debate moving.

No deal isn't possible now.

[Fife-Hibee]

No deal isn't possible now.

Yes it is.

[Moulin Yarns]

No deal isn't possible now.

It is, until the law is formed

[GlesgaeHibby]

It is, until the law is formed

And even once this Bill becomes law, the law could be changed again if Bojo wins an election on 15 Oct to allow us to crash out.

[Cataplana]

And even once this Bill becomes law, the law could be changed again if Bojo wins an election on 15 Oct to allow us to crash out.

How is he going to call that election without a two thirds majority?

[GlesgaeHibby]

How is he going to call that election without a two thirds majority?

Not getting the 2/3 majority tonight is largely irrelevant. It's coming sooner rather than later. Parliamentary arithmetic dictates this. And if he wins a majority there is nothing to stop him changing the law and crashing us out.

[Fife-Hibee]

Not getting the 2/3 majority tonight is largely irrelevant. It's coming sooner rather than later. Parliamentary arithmetic dictates this. And if he wins a majority there is nothing to stop him changing the law and crashing us out.

He will win a majority and the lib dems will give themselves a pat on the back behind closed doors.

[Cataplana]

Not getting the 2/3 majority tonight is largely irrelevant. It's coming sooner rather than later. Parliamentary arithmetic dictates this. And if he wins a majority there is nothing to stop him changing the law and crashing us out.

Do you mean it will come after a vote of no confidence?

[G B Young]

Parliament were put in an impossible situation by the lying of the leave side which promised the world

It can't happen. The only solution was a soft brexit, which was ruled out all the way by the tories

Blaming parliment for trying to mitigate the loss of jobs and income is, IMHO, wrong

Edit - the silly, simplistic, open. Ended referendum question to a wholly complex situation didn't help

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

There was never a solution out there. The fact that three and a half years down the line Parliament is no closer to finding one makes that clear. But to claim the electorate was too dim-witted to understand what they were voting for is a tired old cliche.

Parliament is not trying to mitigate anything. It has descended into an arena whereby a host of factions are manoeuvring their own narrow political agendas into position.

If I could change history so that the Brexit referendum never took place I would. Brexit has become such an mind-numbing presence in our day-to-day lives that it's hard to remember what things were like without it. The prospect of our parliamentarians ensuring we're subjected to yet another meaningless delay makes me despair of them. No deal is, as many of them seem to forget, the default option under the Withdrawal Agreement (which a thumping majority of them voted for) and for all their posturing I think those seeking to delay yet again would be surprised by how many of the electorate would hail a no deal exit simply to bring an end to this seemingly endless chaos.

[Since90+2]

Channel 4 reporting that a procedural oversight in relation to the Kinnock amendment may have "torpedoed" the entire bill to prevent no deal.

When asked in simple terms what that could mean the Journalist from Channel 4 says "this could be a very significant victory for the government."

[Cataplana]

Channel 4 reporting that a procedural oversight in relation to the Kinnock amendment may have "torpedoed" the entire bill to prevent no deal.

When asked in simple terms what that could mean the Journalist from Channel 4 says "this could be a very significant victory for the government."

Any chance of VAR?

[G B Young]

Channel 4 reporting that a procedural oversight in relation to the Kinnock amendment may have "torpedoed" the entire bill to prevent no deal.

When asked in simple terms what that could mean the Journalist from Channel 4 says "this could be a very significant victory for the government."

It appears to have gone through because no teller for the other side could be found (whatever that means), so apparently the May deal can now be brought back for another vote! After the endless flak she took for her deal (in particular from the weasel Corbyn) the irony will surely not be lost on even the humourless Maybot that Labour have brought it back from the dead.

Parliament. Shambles.

[NOLA]

https://img-s-msn-com.akamaized.net/tenant/amp/entityid/AAGL44A.img?h=423&w=634&m=6&q=60&o=f&l=f&x=292&y=131

Self-entitled **** holds us in contempt on the front bench as tonight's vote is held. This is a farce, we need a semblance of sanity.

Last time I saw this guy he was in the beano


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Since90+2]

It appears to have gone through because no teller for the other side could be found (whatever that means), so apparently the May deal can now be brought back for another vote! After the endless flak she took for her deal (in particular from the weasel Corbyn) the irony will surely not be lost on even the humourless Maybot that Labour have brought it back from the dead.

Parliament. Shambles.

Apparently the government purposely did not provide a teller to muddy the waters with the bill.

This whole thing , when you also consider what is happening in the Lords with the 100+ amendments added to achieve nothing but waste time , just shows what an absolute ****show our democracy has become.

[Since90+2]

Boris now effectively begging Corbyn to give him an election to get him out of this mess.

Corbyn has him exactly where he wants him now.

[Colr]

Not getting the 2/3 majority tonight is largely irrelevant. It's coming sooner rather than later. Parliamentary arithmetic dictates this. And if he wins a majority there is nothing to stop him changing the law and crashing us out.

You can have a change in government without an election.

[heretoday]

Sit down now Blackford.

[Fife-Hibee]

Sit down now Blackford.

Had Boris burying his head in a sulk.

[CloudSquall]

Swinson's accent...'kin hell...

[Smartie]

Is it wrong that I'm starting to like Anna Soubry?

[Jack]

There was never a solution out there. The fact that three and a half years down the line Parliament is no closer to finding one makes that clear. But to claim the electorate was too dim-witted to understand what they were voting for is a tired old cliche.

Parliament is not trying to mitigate anything. It has descended into an arena whereby a host of factions are manoeuvring their own narrow political agendas into position.

If I could change history so that the Brexit referendum never took place I would. Brexit has become such an mind-numbing presence in our day-to-day lives that it's hard to remember what things were like without it. The prospect of our parliamentarians ensuring we're subjected to yet another meaningless delay makes me despair of them. No deal is, as many of them seem to forget, the default option under the Withdrawal Agreement (which a thumping majority of them voted for) and for all their posturing I think those seeking to delay yet again would be surprised by how many of the electorate would hail a no deal exit simply to bring an end to this seemingly endless chaos.

You mean the Torys have made a complete mess of this from start to where we are now?

With more mess to come!

[Just Jimmy]

Jess Phillips. spot on!

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Jack Hackett]

Jess Phillips. spot on!

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Plain speaking and heartfelt from someone who is obviously an 'ordinary' person

:top marks

[Saturday Boy]

I thought most of the opposition speakers were excellent tonight. As an active trade-unionist in the late 70s and early 80s, I rarely agreed with Kenneth Clarke, but over the past few months, I’ve really admired his strong stand for Parliamentary democracy. He deserved his name check from Ian Blackford as a sensible replacement for Dominic Cummings as PM adviser.

[Hiber-nation]

Jess Phillips. spot on!

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Fantastic speech.

[Hiber-nation]

Is it wrong that I'm starting to like Anna Soubry?

No!

[GlesgaeHibby]

Jess Phillips. spot on!

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Absolutely superb.

[Cataplana]

Sit down now Blackford.

Kind of lacks gravitas.

[Jack Hackett]

Thank f*** that's over. Kick him in the baws now so I can go to bed happier

[G B Young]

Why does parliament go through the charade of 'debate' prior to votes where every MP already knows which way they're voting? Has any MP ever changed their mind during these sessions? The only time I can think of recently where that might have happened was when Hilary Benn gave his backing to the Syria air strikes but in days like today when we've already been told by the media which way the votes are going it seems little more than a chance for MPs to do a bit of showboating.

[CloudSquall]

Few years ago Ian Blackford was a regular poster on the Bounce, never thought I'd see him eventually sticking the boot into Boris in the HoCs :greengrin

[JeMeSouviens]

I thought most of the opposition speakers were excellent tonight. As an active trade-unionist in the late 70s and early 80s, I rarely agreed with Kenneth Clarke, but over the past few months, I’ve really admired his strong stand for Parliamentary democracy. He deserved his name check from Ian Blackford as a sensible replacement for Dominic Cummings as PM adviser.

:agree:

I think I might’ve sung unkind songs about him & Thatch when I was a student. Or was that Kenneth Baker? Anyway, he seems positively reasonable among today’s lot.

[JeMeSouviens]

Is it wrong that I'm starting to like Anna Soubry?

Yes. But I could kiss Dominic Grieve so am not placed to comment!

[JeMeSouviens]

Why does parliament go through the charade of 'debate' prior to votes where every MP already knows which way they're voting? Has any MP ever changed their mind during these sessions? The only time I can think of recently where that might have happened was when Hilary Benn gave his backing to the Syria air strikes but in days like today when we've already been told by the media which way the votes are going it seems little more than a chance for MPs to do a bit of showboating.

One of the rebs last night claimed they got 4 extra Tories after they’d listened to Rees-Mogg.

[Smartie]

Why does parliament go through the charade of 'debate' prior to votes where every MP already knows which way they're voting? Has any MP ever changed their mind during these sessions? The only time I can think of recently where that might have happened was when Hilary Benn gave his backing to the Syria air strikes but in days like today when we've already been told by the media which way the votes are going it seems little more than a chance for MPs to do a bit of showboating.

Maybe so, but there are a lot of people watching these debates and possibly being influenced as to how they might vote in any future (or imminent) election, referendum etc etc

Debate is good, airing opinion is good, communication is good, even if it might not be influencing anyone in the commons.

[JeMeSouviens]

There was never a solution out there. The fact that three and a half years down the line Parliament is no closer to finding one makes that clear. But to claim the electorate was too dim-witted to understand what they were voting for is a tired old cliche.

Parliament is not trying to mitigate anything. It has descended into an arena whereby a host of factions are manoeuvring their own narrow political agendas into position.

If I could change history so that the Brexit referendum never took place I would. Brexit has become such an mind-numbing presence in our day-to-day lives that it's hard to remember what things were like without it. The prospect of our parliamentarians ensuring we're subjected to yet another meaningless delay makes me despair of them. No deal is, as many of them seem to forget, the default option under the Withdrawal Agreement (which a thumping majority of them voted for) and for all their posturing I think those seeking to delay yet again would be surprised by how many of the electorate would hail a no deal exit simply to bring an end to this seemingly endless chaos.

Current polling suggests 38% support no deal, 44% opposed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49551893

[JeMeSouviens]

Jess Phillips. spot on!

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Blistering!

[GlesgaeHibby]

Current polling suggests 38% support no deal, 44% opposed.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49551893

Utterly mental that people are supportive of something that would damage the economy massively more than the financial crash of 2008. Why on earth would anybody want that?

[heretoday]

Kind of lacks gravitas.

I like him actually but he kept repeating himself. Brevity is the soul of wit.

[Northernhibee]

Utterly mental that people are supportive of something that would damage the economy massively more than the financial crash of 2008. Why on earth would anybody want that?

Because forruners.

[JeMeSouviens]

Utterly mental that people are supportive of something that would damage the economy massively more than the financial crash of 2008. Why on earth would anybody want that?

They don’t believe there will actually be economic damage or they don’t care because they’re wealthy and insulated or poor and think they have nothing to lose.

Edit - forgot, or so fanatical they don’t care and think the damage is worth it.

[Sylar]

Just clocked the clip of Johnson heckling McDonnell - "The last time he was shouting, someone had to call the police" - I'm no fan of McDonnell or the Labour front bench, but ooooft :greengrin

[Smartie]

Because forruners.

Because bus.

[JeMeSouviens]

Johnson could quite feasibly lose the coming election before ever winning a parliamentary vote.

Must be a first?

[BroxburnHibee]

Is it wrong that I'm starting to like Anna Soubry?

I know how you feel. It's made my skin crawl a few times when I've found myself nodding in agreement to her :greengrin

[Jack Hackett]

Utterly mental that people are supportive of something that would damage the economy massively more than the financial crash of 2008. Why on earth would anybody want that?

Answered your own question there :wink:


... I don't think It's about about the economics for the majority of them though... it's sovereignty... and taking back control of whatever

... Maybe a wee dash of xenophobia could be thrown in there as well

[cabbageandribs1875]

he's doing it everywhere now :shocked:



22485

[BroxburnHibee]

What's the next steps then? I'll refer to my opening post again :greengrin

Are we leaving on the 31st Oct or not?

[BroxburnHibee]

he's doing it everywhere now :shocked:



22485

Some of these have been brilliant!

[cabbageandribs1875]

Some of these have been brilliant!



hope no one puts up the one with him wearing stockings :(


or doing other 'things'

[CloudSquall]

Utterly mental that people are supportive of something that would damage the economy massively more than the financial crash of 2008. Why on earth would anybody want that?

Control dammit, we're taken back control!!!

:greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

hope no one puts up the one with him wearing stockings :(


or doing other 'things'

Too late.

[cabbageandribs1875]

East Renfrewshire tory MP paul masterton felt it was 'his duty' to back boris, obviously doesn't feel it's his duty to represent the 74.3% of his constituents that voted remain, think that must be one of the highest remain votes in the UK

[DaveF]

Chat that govt could bring a one line bill forward which bypasses tonight's vote enabling a GE in mid October. Seemingly only needs 50% to pass and radio saying SNP would back it, getting it over the line.

No idea how credible it all is.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Too late.


oh fgs man :faf:

[BroxburnHibee]

Chat that govt could bring a one line bill forward which bypasses tonight's vote enabling a GE in mid October. Seemingly only needs 50% to pass and radio saying SNP would back it, getting it over the line.

No idea how credible it all is.

Yep that had been mooted but apparently it can be amended ie. No election unless no deal taken off the table

[Bristolhibby]

The Daily Mash today regarding Mogg lounging in the Commons has been making me LOL all day.

“JACOB Rees-Mogg has admitted that he only lay down on a Commons front bench because the opium had seriously hit.

The Leader of the Commons apologised to fellow Tories for sprawling on a bench, slipping out of consciousness and vomiting into a sterling silver bucket during a crucial vote, confessing that he had packed his pipe too tightly.

He continued: “I’d taken a tincture of pharmaceutical cocaine before my speech, to give me the eloquence of Cicero, so I prepared a pipe of the poppy to calm my spirits afterwards.


“Unfortunately the sly Chinaman who brings my medicine up the Thames by junk failed to warn me of its unusual strength, and I found myself quite overcome.

“As a gentleman does I reclined and allowed the terrible visions – snakes, sodomites, a Conservative MP crossing the floor entirely because of me – to writhe and twist before my repose.

“I am now perfectly recovered. Tell me, how did last night’s vote transpire? I trust my dark imagining of a loss by 27 votes was naught but an opium dream?””

[Bristolhibby]

I know how you feel. It's made my skin crawl a few times when I've found myself nodding in agreement to her :greengrin

And Ken Clarke.

Shudder

J

[Hibernia&Alba]

Big Ken Clarke absolutely roasted Bozo earlier in parliament. I'm certainly no Tory, but the way Bozo has treated those 21 Tory MPs is just incredible. He is trying to make the narrative about a supposed sabotage of Brexit, but this tactic really has reduced the Tories to a hard right English nationalist party which will alienate many.

[Mr Grieves]

he's doing it everywhere now :shocked:



22485

This is my favourite

https://twitter.com/Alex_Negueruela/status/1169265030287810561?s=19

[GORDONSMITH7]

Big Ken Clarke absolutely roasted Bozo earlier in parliament. I'm certainly no Tory, but the way Bozo has treated those 21 Tory MPs is just incredible. He is trying to make the narrative about a supposed sabotage of Brexit, but this tactic really has reduced the Tories to a hard right English nationalist party which will alienate many.
My favourite anti Labour/Corbyn amigos, Hibbyradge, Colr, Ozyhibs and UKYoungconservative on here went . Ballistic when folk in the Labour Party had the audacity to suggest that members should have right to reselect sitting MP's if they were duff. Punters increasingly do not have a job for life. Not a peep about the Father of the House Clarke with 50 years representing his Party nor Nicholas Soames with 19 more being deselected and kicked out arbitrarily has no comment. At least be consistent comrades

BIG G

[Fife-Hibee]

https://i.ibb.co/7QFrXb0/liar.png

https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/files/2014/09/truthisoutthere.jpg

[lapsedhibee]

https://i.ibb.co/7QFrXb0/liar.png


I don't believe for a moment that there's anyone in government just now who would benefit from spreading lies to promote unrest between opposition parties at Westminster, so that's probably true. :agree:

[Colr]

My favourite anti Labour/Corbyn amigos, Hibbyradge, Colr, Ozyhibs and UKYoungconservative on here went . Ballistic when folk in the Labour Party had the audacity to suggest that members should have right to reselect sitting MP's if they were duff. Punters increasingly do not have a job for life. Not a peep about the Father of the House Clarke with 50 years representing his Party nor Nicholas Soames with 19 more being deselected and kicked out arbitrarily has no comment. At least be consistent comrades

BIG G

I’m against Clark and Soames being deselected. Jess Phillips was good on this but I’m not a Tory so it’s up to them.

I’m not anti-Labour. I’m anti-populist left wing entryistas who are making Labour insufficiently representative and unelectable.

[Colr]

Vote of no confience.

Vote against election.

Boris holes below the waterline.

Propose a compromise candidate as temporary PM with just a straight majority.

Deal with Brexit.

Have an election.

[Peevemor]

https://i.ibb.co/7QFrXb0/liar.png



Even if there was the promise of an Indyref2 up for grabs, there's no way the SNP would do this - they know that they'd lose a huge number of supporters.

[JeMeSouviens]

https://i.ibb.co/7QFrXb0/liar.png

https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/files/2014/09/truthisoutthere.jpg

For context, Christine Jardine is first and foremost fanatically anti-Nat.

[Peevemor]

https://www.bbc.com/news/live/uk-politics-49590838?ns_mchannel=social&ns_source=twitter&ns_campaign=bbc_live&ns_linkname=5d70ab97db67fe0662ec6c53%26PM%20can%27 t%20%27game%20the%20system%27%262019-09-05T06%3A54%3A31.749Z&ns_fee=0&pinned_post_locator=urn:asset:324c1e81-46ab-43f5-930b-200e549ec4dd&pinned_post_asset_id=5d70ab97db67fe0662ec6c53&pinned_post_type=share

[BroxburnHibee]

https://i.ibb.co/7QFrXb0/liar.png

https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/files/2014/09/truthisoutthere.jpg

Her source is that great bastion of truth Alistair Carmichael which tells you all you need to know.

[Hibrandenburg]

oh fgs man :faf:

This one's not too bad either.

[G B Young]

Even if there was the promise of an Indyref2 up for grabs, there's no way the SNP would do this - they know that they'd lose a huge number of supporters.

They wouldn't lose any supporters over this. The date of the election is in reality an irrelevance to the SNP as they'll all but clean up in Scotland no matter what. The Tories will lose seats due to the party's Brexit stance and the loss of Ruth Davidson as their Scottish figurehead, Labour will continue to fail to win seats due to Corbyn's unpopularity and the Lib Dems will maybe hold on to what they have. Leaves the way clear for an increase in SNP seats so as far as they're concerned, deal or no deal any day is good with them for an election.

[Peevemor]

They wouldn't lose any supporters over this. The date of the election is in reality an irrelevance to the SNP as they'll all but clean up in Scotland no matter what. The Tories will lose seats due to the party's Brexit stance and the loss of Ruth Davidson as their Scottish figurehead, Labour will continue to fail to win seats due to Corbyn's unpopularity and the Lib Dems will maybe hold on to what they have. Leaves the way clear for an increase in SNP seats so as far as they're concerned, deal or no deal any day is good with them for an election.

Nonsense, if the direct result was a no-deal Brexit then their credibilty and support would plummet, even among their core support.

[SHODAN]

I'm genuinely concerned about the prospect of a no-deal Johnson majority government.

[G B Young]

I’m against Clark and Soames being deselected. Jess Phillips was good on this but I’m not a Tory so it’s up to them.

I’m not anti-Labour. I’m anti-populist left wing entryistas who are making Labour insufficiently representative and unelectable.

Sums it up for me too. There's hypocrisy at play here too from Labour claiming to be outraged by the Tory sackings bearing in mind the number of MPs who have felt unable to serve in Corbyn's shadow cabinet coupled with the number who have left the party altogether citing bullying and anti-Semitism.

[G B Young]

Nonsense, if the direct result was a no-deal Brexit then their credibilty and support would plummet, even among their core support.

Don't agree. If anything no deal will boost the SNP support.

[lapsedhibee]

I'm genuinely concerned about the prospect of a no-deal Johnson majority government.

Even though the prorogation drastically reduces the scrutiny that Johnson will get in Parliament before an election, there'll still be plenty more opportunities for him to embarrass himself in front of the nation. The longer that Labour delays an election, the less likely that Johnson will sweep to victory. Everyone saw Tan Dhesi yesterday - that won't have influenced some of Johnson's base, but switherers and waverers will have taken note.

[lapsedhibee]

Don't agree. If anything no deal will boost the SNP support.

It will, but not if they cause it.

[Peevemor]

It will, but not if they cause it.

Exactly.

[cabbageandribs1875]

It will, but not if they cause it.


this :agree:

[Hibbyradge]

My favourite anti Labour/Corbyn amigos, Hibbyradge, Colr, Ozyhibs and UKYoungconservative on here went . Ballistic when folk in the Labour Party had the audacity to suggest that members should have right to reselect sitting MP's if they were duff. Punters increasingly do not have a job for life. Not a peep about the Father of the House Clarke with 50 years representing his Party nor Nicholas Soames with 19 more being deselected and kicked out arbitrarily has no comment. At least be consistent comrades

BIG G

Stop slavering.

I couldn't give a flying fig about what the Tories do to each other, but it's touching that you care so much. Wasn't Ken Clarke a member of Thatcher's cabinet for her entire tenure? Remember her? Poll tax, miners, anti TU laws. You must have fond memories, right enough.

Momentum weren't planning on deselecting on the basis of ability. They were deselecting purely on the basis of politics and loyalty to them and Corbyn.

[Hibrandenburg]

Don't agree. If anything no deal will boost the SNP support.

Not if the SNP played a complicit role in it happening.

[Hibbyradge]

Don't agree. If anything no deal will boost the SNP support.

Not if they're seen to have helped it happen.

[Hibrandenburg]

It will, but not if they cause it.

Beat me too it.

[Colr]

Don't agree. If anything no deal will boost the SNP support.

Not if they facilitate it.

[RyeSloan]

I’ve been too busy to follow the nonsense recently too closely but I’m confused already this ‘no deal’ bill.

Is it not the case that if we have a GE and the Tories get a working majority then they could simply repeal this bill and then no deal is back on the table (albeit maybe after another deadline delay)?

If so then what is the point in Labour faffing about re wanting a GE or not?

Apologies of this is a dumb question as as I’ve said I’ve not had the time to follow the ins and outs!

[JeMeSouviens]

Nonsense, if the direct result was a no-deal Brexit then their credibilty and support would plummet, even among their core support.


It will, but not if they cause it.


this :agree:


Not if the SNP played a complicit role in it happening.


Not if they're seen to have helped it happen.


Not if they facilitate it.

Can't argue with that level of agreement :greengrin

Actually, I don't think I'd vote for them if they did that.

[JeMeSouviens]

I’ve been too busy to follow the nonsense recently too closely but I’m confused already this ‘no deal’ bill.

Is it not the case that if we have a GE and the Tories get a working majority then they could simply repeal this bill and then no deal is back on the table (albeit maybe after another deadline delay)?

If so then what is the point in Labour faffing about re wanting a GE or not?

Apologies of this is a dumb question as as I’ve said I’ve not had the time to follow the ins and outs!

You're correct but there could easily be another hung parliament post-GE with Johnson clinging on for no deal.

And there's the tactical ploy of forcing Johnson to ask for an extension thereby failing in his own "do or die" pish, feeding Farage's betrayal narrative to split the Leave vote.

[JeMeSouviens]

Jo Johnson resigns (again :greengrin).


In recent weeks I’ve been torn between family loyalty and the national interest - it’s an unresolvable tension & time for others to take on my roles as MP & Minister.

[CloudSquall]

I wonder if Boris will do a deal with Farage when push comes to shove?

[lapsedhibee]

Jo Johnson resigns (again :greengrin).

Beginning of the end for the rubber bath toy ****show? :dunno:

[JeMeSouviens]

Beginning of the end for the rubber bath toy ****show? :dunno:

Nice gag from twitter - "he's resigned to spend less time with his family". :greengrin

[Northernhibee]

https://i.ibb.co/7QFrXb0/liar.png

https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/files/2014/09/truthisoutthere.jpg

They desperately wanted to get Corbyn to call a no confidence vote earlier than he did which would blatantly have lead to a defeat so I wouldn't be surprised one bit.

[Bristolhibby]

Don't agree. If anything no deal will boost the SNP support.

Yes, but can’t be seen to back no deal. It would be a bonus of something bad happening. Got run over, but won the lottery.

I genuinely believe that the SNP don’t want a no deal as it would be devistating for Scotland. Fight that battle, clean up in the General Election. Still cite the ongoing Brexit sore (that will continue no matter the direction we go) as evidence that Westminster does not work, and then push for Indy2.

J

[G B Young]

Can't argue with that level of agreement :greengrin

Actually, I don't think I'd vote for them if they did that.

Maybe not - and the rumour doesn't appear to have been substantiated. I do, though, still think plenty in the SNP would be privately content with no deal as a means of boosting support. It's often forgotten that a significant chunk of SNP supporters voted for Brexit as well as independence.

[G B Young]

There's definitely an election campaign under way...

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/91AB/production/_108619273_the-sun.jpg

[Bristolhibby]

Maybe not - and the rumour doesn't appear to have been substantiated. I do, though, still think plenty in the SNP would be privately content with no deal as a means of boosting support. It's often forgotten that a significant chunk of SNP supporters voted for Brexit as well as independence.

Siding with the Tories (especially at this juncture) is toxic.

Why get in the way of you opponent destroying themselves?

Beware of Greeks bearing gifts, etc. Whatever the PM wants, do the opposite.

J

[Bristolhibby]

There's definitely an election campaign under way...

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/91AB/production/_108619273_the-sun.jpg

Gawd! They must have thought long and hard about that one.

Again Daily Mash has made me laugh.

I am not Marty McFly so you may call me chicken as much as you like, explains Corbyn.

JEREMY Corbyn has explained to Conservatives that he is not the film character ‘Marty McFly’ and suffers no instinctive reaction to being called ‘chicken’.

As Tories prepared their next brilliant plan of moving their arms like wings while clucking a lot, which they are convinced will win them an early election and no-deal Brexit, Corbyn remained unmoved.

He said: “As it happens I saw the film Back to the Future during an unguarded moment in the 1980s, and am familiar with the character played by Michael J Fox.

“I am unlike McFly in many ways. I have no age-inappropriate friendships with scientists, I do not ‘skitch’ on motor vehicles with my skateboard, and I am not in the least annoyed at being called ‘chicken’.

[JeMeSouviens]

There's definitely an election campaign under way...

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/660/cpsprodpb/91AB/production/_108619273_the-sun.jpg

Interesting bit of English/Scottish schizophrenia in the Sun these days:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDruvSsX4AIRN4Y?format=jpg&name=medium

[RyeSloan]

You're correct but there could easily be another hung parliament post-GE with Johnson clinging on for no deal.

And there's the tactical ploy of forcing Johnson to ask for an extension thereby failing in his own "do or die" pish, feeding Farage's betrayal narrative to split the Leave vote.

Ok thanks. [emoji736]

Back to the day job now...dunno what’s worse the bloody grind I’m facing there or the shenanigans over Brexit!

[Bristolhibby]

Interesting bit of English/Scottish schizophrenia in the Sun these days:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDruvSsX4AIRN4Y?format=jpg&name=medium

Beat me to it.

It’s as if we are two separate countries.

J

[Mr Grieves]

I wonder if Boris will do a deal with Farage when push comes to shove?

The tories would have to explicitly say they were going for a no deal brexit to make Farage back off. And if they do that, there would be further splits.

[SHODAN]

https://i.ibb.co/7QFrXb0/liar.png

https://img.washingtonpost.com/blogs/monkey-cage/files/2014/09/truthisoutthere.jpg

If the SNP side with the Tories then I, and a lot of other people, will be done with them. For that reason they won't do it.

[BroxburnHibee]

If the SNP side with the Tories then I, and a lot of other people, will be done with them. For that reason they won't do it.

Its complete bollocks. No way the SNP would help him. No ******g way!

[Since90+2]

Sturgeon and Blackford are both pretty shrewd operators. There's absolutely no chance they would consider doing a deal with the Tories , both from a moral and political standpoint.

[G B Young]

If the SNP side with the Tories then I, and a lot of other people, will be done with them. For that reason they won't do it.

As has been dicussed on this forum at length before, the SNP are still recalled by many 'oldies' as the 'Tartan Tories' for their complicity in ensuring Margaret Thatcher came to power.

For younger readers:

The Tartan Tories were the 11 SNP Members of the Westminster Parliament who in 1979 did a deal with the then leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition, Margaret Thatcher, and offered to vote with her Conservative and Unionist Party to bring down the then Labour government of James Callaghan in a vote of no 
confidence. The SNP frequently remind us of the 18 years of “Tory rule” that followed 1979 but seem to have forgotten that it was they who delivered it by walking into the same 
Division Lobby as Mrs Thatcher and her party.

[Northernhibee]

Gove lying through his teeth.

Saying that Yellowhammer asked "What is our base scenario?" (when he said it was a worst case scenario a couple of weeks earlier).

Then said that everyone who knew him knows how much he respects the law (days after saying that the government may not stick to the law).

I wonder if the MSM will pick up on this? :rolleyes:

[cabbageandribs1875]

This is my favourite

https://twitter.com/Alex_Negueruela/status/1169265030287810561?s=19


lol there's some seriously creative talented individuals out there :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

This one's not too bad either.



and some disturbed ones :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

As has been dicussed on this forum at length before, the SNP are still recalled by many 'oldies' as the 'Tartan Tories' for their complicity in ensuring Margaret Thatcher came to power.

For younger readers:

The Tartan Tories were the 11 SNP Members of the Westminster Parliament who in 1979 did a deal with the then leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition, Margaret Thatcher, and offered to vote with her Conservative and Unionist Party to bring down the then Labour government of James Callaghan in a vote of no 
confidence. The SNP frequently remind us of the 18 years of “Tory rule” that followed 1979 but seem to have forgotten that it was they who delivered it by walking into the same 
Division Lobby as Mrs Thatcher and her party.

Do you think they are about to team up with the Tories?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[G B Young]

"Represent" doesn't mean slavishly follow the perceived majority view though. Imo they should be using their judgement and the time and resources available to them to decide what they think is the best course of action for their constituents and the wider public.

Nina Houghton clearly feels the majority view should be followed when it comes to representing constituents. But does Berger's defection really mean she only represents 6% of them?

Nina Houghton, the chair of Liverpool Wavertree's Labour Party has condemned Luciana Berger for her move to the Liberal Democrats.
In a statement, she said: "Berger now represents only 6% of Wavertree constituents - those who voted Lib Dem in the last election.
"She is ignoring the 80% of Wavertree voters who voted Labour.
"She has not supported the Labour Party for some time, but has not had the courage to resign and face a by-election.
"If she truly believed in democratic values she would have done this long ago."

[lord bunberry]

There’s absolutely no chance of the SNP doing a deal with the tories, it would be electoral suicide. Look what’s happened to Labour since they got into bed with the tories.

[G B Young]

Do you think they are about to team up with the Tories?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Doesn't seem likely and there's been no further substance added to the earlier rumour, but just pointing out that they do have previous for doing so.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Her source is that great bastion of truth Alistair Carmichael which tells you all you need to know.



exactly, he's got someone else to "leak" his made-up lies this time, he should have resigned 4 years ago for his last attempt at mischievous making

[JeMeSouviens]

As has been dicussed on this forum at length before, the SNP are still recalled by many 'oldies' as the 'Tartan Tories' for their complicity in ensuring Margaret Thatcher came to power.

For younger readers:

The Tartan Tories were the 11 SNP Members of the Westminster Parliament who in 1979 did a deal with the then leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition, Margaret Thatcher, and offered to vote with her Conservative and Unionist Party to bring down the then Labour government of James Callaghan in a vote of no 
confidence. The SNP frequently remind us of the 18 years of “Tory rule” that followed 1979 but seem to have forgotten that it was they who delivered it by walking into the same 
Division Lobby as Mrs Thatcher and her party.

God, how many times do we have to go round this loop?

There was no deal. The SNP threw their toys out of the pram because Labour backbenchers fixed the 1979 devolution referendum by requiring 40% of the electorate to vote Yes and then the Labour government dropped devolution when the Yes win failed to fulfil that requirement. (It was a 52-48 result btw.) So the SNP brought a confidence motion. The Tories then did likewise and only one was voted on. The result was Labour lost by one vote and Callaghan resigned. The longest his government could have held on was another 5 months.

[GORDONSMITH7]

Interesting bit of English/Scottish schizophrenia in the Sun these days:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EDruvSsX4AIRN4Y?format=jpg&name=medium

The horrible rag has declared support for the Tories in England and the SNP in Scotland at the same time in the past at General Elections. I take my hat off to the people of Liverpool/Merseyside. The boycott started in 1989 still goes on.

BIG G

[lapsedhibee]

Doesn't seem likely and there's been no further substance added to the earlier rumour, but just pointing out that they do have previous for doing so.

Strange point you seem to be arguing here. We* won 7-0 at Tynecastle 40 odd years ago. Do you think we* will win 7-0 next time we go there?

For Mibbes Aye: Hibs.
For Billyhibs: HIBS.

[lord bunberry]

Strange point you seem to be arguing here. We won 7-0 at Tynecastle 40 odd years ago. Do you think we will win 7-0 next time we go there?
I’d like to think so :greengrin

[CloudSquall]

Christine Jardine replied to a tweet to say she asked Blackford directly regarding those rumours and he shot it down straight away.

She threw the grenade in with her "rumours rife that.." tweet and then didn't have the class to follow it up with a tweet saying it was a lot of *****, instead just leaving the idea in the air that the SNP were about to tag team with the Tories.

She's the MP for my constituency and I cannot wait to see her be on the receiving end of a #snpgain


Edit: Also, if Labour are really going reel out the "1979 tartan Tories" jibes for the upcoming election they may as well shout in Japanese to anyone under the age of 50, no one gives a ****.

[Bristolhibby]

Doesn't seem likely and there's been no further substance added to the earlier rumour, but just pointing out that they do have previous for doing so.

40 odd years ago!

If you go back long enough people owned slaves in Britain.

J

[heretoday]

The horrible rag has declared support for the Tories in England and the SNP in Scotland at the same time in the past at General Elections. I take my hat off to the people of Liverpool/Merseyside. The boycott started in 1989 still goes on.

BIG G

It's all about selling papers. No one is forcing any paper to take a particular viewpoint all the time, although most of them do.

Agree about Liverpool.

[Moulin Yarns]

As has been dicussed on this forum at length before, the SNP are still recalled by many 'oldies' as the 'Tartan Tories' for their complicity in ensuring Margaret Thatcher came to power.

For younger readers:

The Tartan Tories were the 11 SNP Members of the Westminster Parliament who in 1979 did a deal with the then leader of Her Majesty’s Opposition, Margaret Thatcher, and offered to vote with her Conservative and Unionist Party to bring down the then Labour government of James Callaghan in a vote of no 
confidence. The SNP frequently remind us of the 18 years of “Tory rule” that followed 1979 but seem to have forgotten that it was they who delivered it by walking into the same 
Division Lobby as Mrs Thatcher and her party.


As ever, it is worth looking a bit deeper into the vote.
I think the vote was 311 to 310. 279 Conservative votes plus 11 snp votes equals 290,who were the other 21? And did they have less influence than the 11 snp votes?

Both sides of the argument use a narrative of snp bad or Labour bad, even tory bad and Liberal bad, but no one party is to blame when support comes from many different people.

[Moulin Yarns]

Hurrah! Love this. Projected onto parliament earlier this week, a new campaign: ‘Demand police action on Brexit crimes @UKdemocracy999’

(Sound on!)

https://t.co/yG4Nv5hskW

[Moulin Yarns]

Corbyn’s reaction to Johnson wanting an election

Sums it up very well “Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.”

[JeMeSouviens]

Corbyn’s reaction to Johnson wanting an election

Sums it up very well “Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.”

Labour's position still unresolved, as is the SNP's I think. PoliticsHome website reports a furious row between Seamus Milne and Nick Brown (Lab's chief whip).

The government are bringing another FTPA vote (requiring 2/3 majority) on Monday. No doubt after a weekend of relentless Tory Corbyn-baiting. :rolleyes:

The latest date for parliament to agree a pre-Oct 31 election is next Thursday before prorogation kicks in.

[JeMeSouviens]

Johnson currently doing a speech against a backdrop of police. Going full on for the authoritarian vote. :rolleyes:

Meanwhile rumours that Amber Rudd might be about to resign.

[lapsedhibee]

Johnson currently doing a speech against a backdrop of police. Going full on for the authoritarian vote. :rolleyes:
He should send them round to Brussels, give them a good kicking, make them see sense. Good old Bathtoy!

[JeMeSouviens]

Johnson says he'd rather be "dead in a ditch"* than ask for another extension. If that's not a reason to go long on an election date, I don't know what is?





* of course, he also promised to "Lie down in front of the bulldozers" to stop Heathrow expansion and then mysteriously couldn't even manage to drag his sorry arse to Westminster to vote against it. So maybe he's just a lying *****bag, who can say? :dunno:

[ACLeith]

So maybe he's just a lying *****bag, who can say? :dunno:
Of all the rhetorical questions I have read on here that's in the top 3
👍👍👍

[BroxburnHibee]

Looks like Corbyn has agreed to force him to ask for the extension.

It really would be foolish to give him a way out.

[Cataplana]

Looks like Corbyn has agreed to force him to ask for the extension.

It really would be foolish to give him a way out.

Won't scan well in an election though. "You had one job, that was to get us out by 31/10 and you couldn't even do that."

[Peevemor]

What I don't understand is the need for a Queen's speech (and the extended prorogation of parliament) given that the government no longer have a working majority and we're almost certain to have a general election before the end of November.

Can anyone enlighten me?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Looks like Corbyn has agreed to force him to ask for the extension.

It really would be foolish to give him a way out.

Yes, Corbyn need only hand Bozo enough rope then stand back. Don't grant him a general election before the Brexit deadline.

[Colr]

Labour's position still unresolved, as is the SNP's I think. PoliticsHome website reports a furious row between Seamus Milne and Nick Brown (Lab's chief whip).

The government are bringing another FTPA vote (requiring 2/3 majority) on Monday. No doubt after a weekend of relentless Tory Corbyn-baiting. :rolleyes:

The latest date for parliament to agree a pre-Oct 31 election is next Thursday before prorogation kicks in.

Can’t quite grasp why they are not planning a vote of no confidence in Johnson.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Can’t quite grasp why they are not planning a vote of no confidence in Johnson.

I can only think of two possible reasons:

1, They think they can force Johnson to break his Halloween deadline to leave the EU, thus destroying the basis of his premiership. Leave Bozo to deal with the impossible issue of Brexit.
2, They don't think they can win it.

[Peevemor]

Can’t quite grasp why they are not planning a vote of no confidence in Johnson.Because if they win it'll force the early election that they want to avoid.

Bojo should probably submit a motion of no confidence in himself.

[G B Young]

Labour's position still unresolved, as is the SNP's I think. PoliticsHome website reports a furious row between Seamus Milne and Nick Brown (Lab's chief whip).

The government are bringing another FTPA vote (requiring 2/3 majority) on Monday. No doubt after a weekend of relentless Tory Corbyn-baiting. :rolleyes:

The latest date for parliament to agree a pre-Oct 31 election is next Thursday before prorogation kicks in.

There appears to have been some substance to the SNP narrative, with Corbyn and Milne apparently keen to go for an early election as they feared the SNP would leave them looking 'frit':

According to the Beeb:
Len McCluskey and other senior Labour figures have been concerned that the SNP would leave Labour high and dry by agreeing to an election on Monday, and making Mr Corbyn look scared.
Labour would, to an extent, be inoculated from charges of dither and delay if the whole opposition remains united.
And it now looks like the "rebel alliance" is holding, following cross-party talks at which the SNP's Westminster leader and Mr Corbyn were present.
There have been reported tensions between the SNP in Edinburgh - the party leader Nicola Sturgeon has said she wants to "bring on" an early election - and the SNP at Westminster. However, senior SNP figures in London are alive to the possibility that if Mr Johnson is elected in a snap poll and goes for no-deal, the party would be open to the charge of enabling it.

[Peevemor]

There appears to have been some substance to the SNP narrative, with Corbyn and Milne apparently keen to go for an early election as they feared the SNP would leave them looking 'frit':

According to the Beeb:
Len McCluskey and other senior Labour figures have been concerned that the SNP would leave Labour high and dry by agreeing to an election on Monday, and making Mr Corbyn look scared.
Labour would, to an extent, be inoculated from charges of dither and delay if the whole opposition remains united.
And it now looks like the "rebel alliance" is holding, following cross-party talks at which the SNP's Westminster leader and Mr Corbyn were present.
There have been reported tensions between the SNP in Edinburgh - the party leader Nicola Sturgeon has said she wants to "bring on" an early election - and the SNP at Westminster. However, senior SNP figures in London are alive to the possibility that if Mr Johnson is elected in a snap poll and goes for no-deal, the party would be open to the charge of enabling it.That's full of ifs and buts. The tweet suggested that the SNP were willing to hand Bojo his no deal Brexit which is absolutely not the case.

[Colr]

Because if they win it'll force the early election that they want to avoid.

Bojo should probably submit a motion of no confidence in himself.

But it won’t. No confidence doesn't trigger a general election in the first instance. It triggers a period of 14 days during which an act of confidence can be secured in an alternative government (government of national unity opportunity). Only if thst can’t be done will an election be called.

Trouble is Corbyn is insisting that only he can be that leader but he won’t get the vote.

If Labour could coalesce around someone else, they could help bring an end to the current government around a compromise leader to get througj Brexit then have an election.

[Hibrandenburg]

Well Question Time was a car crash tonight. If that was a fair snapshot of the political situation in the UK then your all ****ed.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Well Question Time was a car crash tonight. If that was a fair snapshot of the political situation in the UK then your all ****ed.

It was another example of how split the country is. Positions have hardened on both sides since 2016a and there is no room for compromise. The civil war over Europe that has been raging in the Tory party for thirty years has now gone nationwide.

[Ozyhibby]

It was another example of how split the country is. Positions have hardened on both sides since 2016a and there is no room for compromise. The civil war over Europe that has been raging in the Tory party for thirty years has now gone nationwide.

Yip, I think it’s either no deal or remain now. The middle ground has gone.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

i'd love to know what sneaky carmichael thoughts are with a story in the Tory rag DM


22493


we (the SNP) are just going TOO far, if no deal fails there's no independence, again IMO...time will tell but i just don't get it. i DO understand not helping the tories to push no deal through, i DON't get trying their/our damnest to help remain win the day, indy is ******* goosed then, the support will simply not be there, i honestly think some at the top of the SNP have been getting a tad carried away at polls showing quite healthy support but the polls ultimately follow bad no-deal stories, of course there's that chance they know something i don't :greengrin but i'm glabberfasted wtf it is :confused:

Corbyn : help us get no deal and i'l give you a sect 30
SNP : aye ok braw

Corbyn to McDonnell and Abbot: well that was easy, the support won't be there to get indy2 over the line
Corbyn to Leonard : we played a blinder with you kidding on you were up in arms at me offering a sect 30 a few weeks back, it got them on board, tee hee :grr:



and relax

[cabbageandribs1875]

22494


hard to disagree with the 45% here :greengrin Hello Bankruptcy....followed by Tory austerity again

[Ozyhibby]

i'd love to know what sneaky carmichael thoughts are with a story in the Tory rag DM


22493


we (the SNP) are just going TOO far, if no deal fails there's no independence, again IMO...time will tell but i just don't get it. i DO understand not helping the tories to push no deal through, i DON't get trying their/our damnest to help remain win the day, indy is ******* goosed then, the support will simply not be there, i honestly think some at the top of the SNP have been getting a tad carried away at polls showing quite healthy support but the polls ultimately follow bad no-deal stories, of course there's that chance they know something i don't :greengrin but i'm glabberfasted wtf it is :confused:

Corbyn : help us get no deal and i'l give you a sect 30
SNP : aye ok braw

Corbyn to McDonnell and Abbot: well that was easy, the support won't be there to get indy2 over the line
Corbyn to Leonard : we played a blinder with you kidding on you were up in arms at me offering a sect 30 a few weeks back, it got them on board, tee hee :grr:



and relax

No deal may help initially boost support for independence but it also makes it less likely if there is the chance of a hard border between Scotland and England. And in a campaign it allows better together 2 to make all sorts of claims about border posts and tariffs. People in Scotland will not vote for any sort of border with England. At the very least the SNP need a soft brexit, preferably still in CU and SM. That way trading arrangement are already known and the border will remain as is. If UK eventually end up not leaving at all, YES still in with good chance as brexit will remain number 1 issue down south for next generation.


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[Colr]

Because if they win it'll force the early election that they want to avoid.

Bojo should probably submit a motion of no confidence in himself.

Although on your last point would that maybe be presented as a “back me or sack me” type vote that John Major triggered on his own party leadership (over Europe - big surprise).

[Ozyhibby]

Although on your last point would that maybe be presented as a “back me or sack me” type vote that John Major triggered on his own party leadership (over Europe - big surprise).

Different doing it in the commons though. If he goes for VONC then the opposition parties should abstain. Make his own party vote no confidence in him. It damages him in the election campaign.


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[Benny Brazil]

Well Question Time was a car crash tonight. If that was a fair snapshot of the political situation in the UK then your all ****ed.

Had to laugh at Emily Thornberry and her plan to negotiate a deal and then campaign to remain - utterly bizarre

[G B Young]

Had to laugh at Emily Thornberry and her plan to negotiate a deal and then campaign to remain - utterly bizarre

If Corbyn didn't exist Thornberry alone would be enough to put you off ever voting Labour. Misplaced smugness masking a complete inability to provide a coherent explanation of her party's actual policy on all this. And yes, claiming that if Labour came into power (perish the thought) she would negotiate a new Brexit deal with the EU then campaign against what she'd just negotiated...:confused:

In saying that, I had to switch off after about 15 minutes. I pretty much hate Question Time full stop, but thought I'd tune in to get an idea of the current 'zeitgeist'. As others have said, what a car crash. The radio presenter (can't remember his name) was correct in saying they might as well pack up and let the audience take over.

[Hibernia&Alba]

If Corbyn didn't exist Thornberry alone would be enough to put you off ever voting Labour. Misplaced smugness masking a complete inability to provide a coherent explanation of her party's actual policy on all this. And yes, claiming that if Labour came into power (perish the thought) she would negotiate a new Brexit deal with the EU then campaign against what she'd just negotiated...:confused:

In saying that, I had to switch off after about 15 minutes. I pretty much hate Question Time full stop, but thought I'd tune in to get an idea of the current 'zeitgeist'. As others have said, what a car crash. The radio presenter (can't remember his name) was correct in saying they might as well pack up and let the audience take over.

You would rather have Bozo and more Tory crony capitalism - socialism for the rich (banks) and market discipline for the poor, would you?

There is nothing wrong with what Thornbury said. She accepts the 2016 referendum result whilst believing the UK is better off in the EU. That's the same position as former Tory Ken Clark and Bozo's brother Jo Johnson. She is willing to see us leave the EU but personally doesn't want it, which is my view too. It is entirely possible to do what one believes is one's duty without necessarily believe it's the right course of action. The UK referendum voted leave, we in Scotland did not, hence I am now pro-independence though I voted No in 2015. The UK voted leave so it should leave; but I have come to the conclusion that that decision is not right for Scotland; and, if you're looking to blame someone for the break up of the UK, look at Cameron, May and Johnson ad their lurch towards a right wing, bigoted English nationalism. They unleashed this vote and subsequent strategy.

[Cataplana]

Well Question Time was a car crash tonight. If that was a fair snapshot of the political situation in the UK then your all ****ed.

Shocking, I have never known the panelists to interrupt and harangue the audience before.

[Bristolhibby]

There appears to have been some substance to the SNP narrative, with Corbyn and Milne apparently keen to go for an early election as they feared the SNP would leave them looking 'frit':

According to the Beeb:
Len McCluskey and other senior Labour figures have been concerned that the SNP would leave Labour high and dry by agreeing to an election on Monday, and making Mr Corbyn look scared.
Labour would, to an extent, be inoculated from charges of dither and delay if the whole opposition remains united.
And it now looks like the "rebel alliance" is holding, following cross-party talks at which the SNP's Westminster leader and Mr Corbyn were present.
There have been reported tensions between the SNP in Edinburgh - the party leader Nicola Sturgeon has said she wants to "bring on" an early election - and the SNP at Westminster. However, senior SNP figures in London are alive to the possibility that if Mr Johnson is elected in a snap poll and goes for no-deal, the party would be open to the charge of enabling it.

This “Bring it on” from the SNP has all come from one tweet from Nichola.

I feel this is not literally being it on right now, but in the imminent future (1/11/10).

I and she will be keenly aware of the optics of enabling a Tory hard Brexit. She ain’t daft. Which is why the Tories must stew.

J

[lapsedhibee]

Shocking, I have never known the panelists to interrupt and harangue the audience before.

Tice is like that whatever show he's on, and whoever he's on with.

[Hibrandenburg]

Has anybody actually confirmed with the EU that they will grant another extension? Everyone seems to think it's a foregone conclusion.

[Ozyhibby]

Has anybody actually confirmed with the EU that they will grant another extension? Everyone seems to think it's a foregone conclusion.

They would def grant it. A hard brexit is bad for them as well.


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[Hibernia&Alba]

Has anybody actually confirmed with the EU that they will grant another extension? Everyone seems to think it's a foregone conclusion.

Good question, but it won't happen as long with Bozo is PM, as he cannot possibly afford to allow it, given his strident commitment to leaving on Halloween. He knows that failure to achieve that means he's finished.

[Hibrandenburg]

They would def grant it. A hard brexit is bad for them as well.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm not so sure. I suppose a lot will depend on who is asking and what for.

[Hibrandenburg]

Good question, but it won't happen as long with Bozo is PM, as he cannot possibly afford to allow it, given his strident commitment to leaving on Halloween. He knows that failure to achieve that means he's finished.

I'm starting to believe that the EU will cut their losses and run at some point. I think we're getting close to that point now.

[G B Young]

You would rather have Bozo and more Tory crony capitalism - socialism for the rich (banks) and market discipline for the poor, would you?

There is nothing wrong with what Thornbury said. She accepts the 2016 referendum result whilst believing the UK is better off in the EU. That's the same position as former Tory Ken Clark and Bozo's brother Jo Johnson. She is willing to see us leave the EU but personally doesn't want it, which is my view too. It is entirely possible to do what one believes is one's duty without necessarily believe it's the right course of action. The UK referendum voted leave, we in Scotland did not, hence I am now pro-independence though I voted No in 2015. The UK voted leave so it should leave; but I have come to the conclusion that that decision is not right for Scotland; and, if you're looking to blame someone for the break up of the UK, look at Cameron, May and Johnson ad their lurch towards a right wing, bigoted English nationalism. They unleashed this vote and subsequent strategy.

I'd rather Scottish independence than a Corbyn government so in the event of Labour getting into power I'd join you in switching to the yes camp.

Even Thornberry realised her 'plan' for Brexit sounded laughable.

[mjhibby]

Yes, Corbyn need only hand Bozo enough rope then stand back. Don't grant him a general election before the Brexit deadline.

Absolutely no need to.An election at the end of november will ensure no no deal Brexit and farage will wipe the floor with boris. Sit back and watch the toff bigots tearing into each other. The country will run out of popcorn.Marvellous

[Ozyhibby]

Absolutely no need to.An election at the end of november will ensure no no deal Brexit and farage will wipe the floor with boris. Sit back and watch the toff bigots tearing into each other. The country will run out of popcorn.Marvellous

That has to be the plan for the opposition parties. They need to make him break his promise of leaving ‘do or die’. That keeps the brexit party in play which is why he is contemplating breaking the law. Either outcome is good for the opposition. They need to keep him in office as long as possible.


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[lapsedhibee]

That has to be the plan for the opposition parties. They need to make him break his promise of leaving ‘do or die’. That keeps the brexit party in play which is why he is contemplating breaking the law. Either outcome is good for the opposition. They need to keep him in office as long as possible.


Don't see him lasting in office until the end of October. He doesn't seem the type to be up for a struggle of any kind. And he's nowhere near physically fit enough for one. :singing: Bye Bye Bathtoy, Bathtoy Bye Bye :singing:

[Ozyhibby]

Don't see him lasting in office until the end of October. He doesn't seem the type to be up for a struggle of any kind. And he's nowhere near physically fit enough for one. :singing: Bye Bye Bathtoy, Bathtoy Bye Bye :singing:

If he quits that’s good too.


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[lapsedhibee]

If he quits that’s good too.


Maybe then the 96,000 could vote to give Raab or Govey a shot at telling Johnny Foreigner what's what. :faf:

[Moulin Yarns]

London high Court rejected challenge to close down parliament

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49604584

[JeMeSouviens]

If Corbyn didn't exist Thornberry alone would be enough to put you off ever voting Labour. Misplaced smugness masking a complete inability to provide a coherent explanation of her party's actual policy on all this. And yes, claiming that if Labour came into power (perish the thought) she would negotiate a new Brexit deal with the EU then campaign against what she'd just negotiated...:confused:

In saying that, I had to switch off after about 15 minutes. I pretty much hate Question Time full stop, but thought I'd tune in to get an idea of the current 'zeitgeist'. As others have said, what a car crash. The radio presenter (can't remember his name) was correct in saying they might as well pack up and let the audience take over.

:agree:

I gave up on it years ago. Especially when there are interesting things happening, much better on Newsnight.

[degenerated]

Chat that govt could bring a one line bill forward which bypasses tonight's vote enabling a GE in mid October. Seemingly only needs 50% to pass and radio saying SNP would back it, getting it over the line.

No idea how credible it all is.Not at all credible. It was a lie started by the lib dems, christine jardine made herself look like a right arse on twitter over it.


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[Cataplana]

Tice is like that whatever show he's on, and whoever he's on with.

He wasn't the only one.

Sorry, I only tuned in for a couple of minutes, so I didn't get the other names. The guy on Blackfords left didn't do himself any favours either.

It's going to get ugly, the establishment will stop at nothing to get what they want.

[degenerated]

Even if there was the promise of an Indyref2 up for grabs, there's no way the SNP would do this - they know that they'd lose a huge number of supporters.Its typical lib dem behaviour, they really are the worst sort of people.

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[Bristolhibby]

Had to laugh at Emily Thornberry and her plan to negotiate a deal and then campaign to remain - utterly bizarre

Which is how it should have been done in the first black.

Not Cameron’s limp deal, but a full on Exit deal. Then put it to the people.

The status quo
v
The Negotiated Exit AND subsequent trade deal

BREXIT referendum should have been the green light to begin discussions on exit before going back to the people to confirm / reject the “Deal”.

J

[lapsedhibee]

He wasn't the only one.

Sorry, I only tuned in for a couple of minutes, so I didn't get the other names. The guy on Blackfords left didn't do himself any favours either.
Iain Dale, Brexiter LBC host. He's normally very reasonable. Not sure quite why he seemed to get so upset that Thornberry was calling Johnson a liar. Switched off very soon after that. Any Questions on the radiobox isn't much better than QT.

[Cataplana]

Diane Abbot doing what she does, criticising Boris for making police cadets stand for an hour .

It's not like they'll be doing that when they are coppers, us it?

She is a one woman disaster zone.