Brexit - What Now.

[Ozyhibby]

What’s the betting that the last minute compromise will be the ‘border in the Irish Sea followed by a swift election which the Tories win meaning they can tell the DUP to GTF?

It’s what would have happened if the DUP didn’t have the balance of power and Brexit would have happened in March.
Can’t see how they get it through now, both sides going for winner takes all.
Remainers want revoke and brexiteers want no deal. There is no middle ground deal to be had now IMO.


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[Jack Hackett]

But, but, but ...... will of the people, democracy etc etc. The backstop is "undemocratic" says our unelected PM.

I've yet to hear him explain just exactly how it's undemocratic.

[lapsedhibee]

I've yet to hear him explain just exactly how it's undemocratic.

The claim is that it will leave Brits subject to rules made by foreigners who the Brits are no longer able to unelect.

(In much the same way that Wednesdays in this country are undemocratic, because we only ever get to unelect politicians on a Thursday.)

I believe it on the grounds that Dominic Cummings is a genius.

[heretoday]

Boris stumbling about Europe trying out his O Level French isn't going to get a deal or anything.
Prepare yourselves for a hard Brexit, which you should have been doing if you're a business.

[Ozyhibby]

Boris stumbling about Europe trying out his O Level French isn't going to get a deal or anything.
Prepare yourselves for a hard Brexit, which you should have been doing if you're a business.

As America and China look to be heading for a full blockade on each other at the same time as a hard brexit it could be a very big economic shock.


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[Jack Hackett]

The claim is that it will leave Brits subject to rules made by foreigners who the Brits are no longer able to unelect.

(In much the same way that Wednesdays in this country are undemocratic, because we only ever get to unelect politicians on a Thursday.)

I believe it on the grounds that Dominic Cummings is a genius.

Gotcha. He doesn't do irony, does he?... or much of anything else, really :rolleyes:

[Moulin Yarns]

Yougov poll


Latest Westminster voting intention (20-21 Aug)
Con - 32%
Lab - 22%
Lib Dem - 20%
Brexit Party - 12%
Green - 7%
https://t.co/RXCBZmswsh https://t.co/dWwMWiV4PH

https://twitter.com/MonthOfSundaes/status/1165210488852111360?s=09

[Callum_62]

Yougov poll


Latest Westminster voting intention (20-21 Aug)
Con - 32%
Lab - 22%
Lib Dem - 20%
Brexit Party - 12%
Green - 7%
https://t.co/RXCBZmswsh https://t.co/dWwMWiV4PH

https://twitter.com/MonthOfSundaes/status/1165210488852111360?s=09The UK is a basket case for sure. Its obvious England and Scotland are continuing to diverge on the political spectrum

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[mjhibby]

Yougov poll


Latest Westminster voting intention (20-21 Aug)
Con - 32%
Lab - 22%
Lib Dem - 20%
Brexit Party - 12%
Green - 7%
https://t.co/RXCBZmswsh https://t.co/dWwMWiV4PH

https://twitter.com/MonthOfSundaes/status/1165210488852111360?s=09

Remember may was 20% ahead before she called an election. This election will be a very hard one to call as it will basically be a second referendum. I still feel that he won't get a majority and labour and lib Dems will be in a coalition with probably the SNP. I wouldn't really want to predict it though. Even bumbling Boris knows polls are irrelevant.

[Colr]

Remember may was 20% ahead before she called an election. This election will be a very hard one to call as it will basically be a second referendum. I still feel that he won't get a majority and labour and lib Dems will be in a coalition with probably the SNP. I wouldn't really want to predict it though. Even bumbling Boris knows polls are irrelevant.

May ran the worst campaign in living memory and made it all about her. You’d think they wouldn’t make the same mistake again but the Tories are so divided, you can’t see them coming together for an election which will make it about Boris who is a pretty divisive character.

Labour and Corbyn ran a decent campaign last time and had some good policies.

The Tories can’t rely on this lead unless farage vanishes

[Smartie]

May ran the worst campaign in living memory and made it all about her. You’d think they wouldn’t make the same mistake again but the Tories are so divided, you can’t see them coming together for an election which will make it about Boris who is a pretty divisive character.

Labour and Corbyn ran a decent campaign last time and had some good policies.

The Tories can’t rely on this lead unless farage vanishes

There's a peculiar phenomenon whereby the Tories seem to manage to pull together for the greater good of their party when they need to but Labour fragment and divide over whose form of socialism is the best.

If there's an election to be won, the Tories will unite behind Boris all right. If there's a point to be made, Labour will prioritise that over getting into power, leaving us all to suffer at the sharp end of the nastiest, most right wing Tory government I think any of us could possibly imagine.

The current government is a shambles but I don't relish a General Election unless Labour somehow get their act together.

[CloudSquall]

"If Labour is the largest party it's going to be at the beck and call of those jocks of the SNP"

...is the only message Boris needs to guarantee a majority, having Brown as PM was too much for some down south to stomach, god forbid having a party full of "those jocks" actually influencing things.

[JeMeSouviens]

Cross party stop no deal effort finally seems to be coming together:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49483374

Bout effin time.

[Callum_62]

Cross party stop no deal effort finally seems to be coming together:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49483374

Bout effin time.Why do the SNP want to stop No deal?

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[G B Young]

Cross party stop no deal effort finally seems to be coming together:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49483374

Bout effin time.

Though it sounds as if Corbyn has shelved his plans to call a vote of no confidence. Been forced to accept that he doesn't carry the clout to be even a temporary PM perhaps...

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2019/08/jeremy-corbyn-capitulates-in-cross-party-brexit-talks/

[JeMeSouviens]

Why do the SNP want to stop No deal?

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rUK with No deal and iScotland in the EU gives iScotland a long term strategic advantage but:

- the jump to indy is a lot less scary with us and rUK both in the single market (or as close as the stupid Brexiters will allow).
- there's no absolute guarantee iref2 will give us a Yes and sticking inside no deal Brexit UK will all but permanently ravage Scotland.
- it's the best thing for rUK too and we should be nice to our neighbours. :wink:

[cabbageandribs1875]

Why do the SNP want to stop No deal?

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tbf they have to, even though i'm sure there will be more than a few that realise a no-deal would(imo anyway) almost guarantee independence for scotland



i've said it for months....mon No-Deal :agree: mon boris :sick:

[danhibees1875]

Why do the SNP want to stop No deal?

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They aren't going full "independence at all costs" with it, rightly.

There's an obvious advantage to their main aim of independence if we leave with no deal, but I think it's a good long term strategy (and also just the right thing to do) to show every effort to stop a no deal Brexit.

[Fife-Hibee]

Why do the SNP want to stop No deal?

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The SNP know that there is nothing they can do to prevent No deal. No deal is the plan, it was always the plan and the SNP are fully aware of this.

However, by making it look as if they're doing absolutely everything they can to prevent it (only for it to inevitably happen anyway), it strengthens the case for independence even further.

[James310]

If the SNP had voted for Ken Clark's proposal, while far from perfect for them, would that not have stopped a No Deal?

[Fife-Hibee]

If the SNP had voted for Ken Clark's proposal, while far from perfect for them, would that not have stopped a No Deal?

They have no intentions of stopping a NO deal.

[Ozyhibby]

Why do the SNP want to stop No deal?

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No deal gives us border problems during indyref campaign. Keeping rUK in SM and CU means no scare stories from BT2.


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[Hibbyradge]

tbf they have to, even though i'm sure there will be more than a few that realise a no-deal would(imo anyway) almost guarantee independence for scotland



i've said it for months....mon No-Deal :agree: mon boris :sick:

If a border goes up in Ireland, Independence for Scotland is nowhere near a certainty.

[JeMeSouviens]

They have no intentions of stopping a NO deal.

Theresa May's Tories obviously did try for a deal but made it quite clear that it wasn't going to include a permanent customs union which was what Clarke's indicative vote proposed. So, as usual, the desperate attempt to turn absolutely every last ******g thing into SNP bad fails again. :rolleyes:


ANYWAY, WHAT ABOUT THE ******G CURRENCY ALREADY?

[ronaldo7]

If the SNP had voted for Ken Clark's proposal, while far from perfect for them, would that not have stopped a No Deal?

They had their own amendment. If Ken Clarke, and the labour abstainers had voted for it, they would have avoided no deal.

If Theresa May, and your party hadn't made a mega sized cow pat of this whole debacle, we'd have been discussing the state of the pound. More up your street.

[James310]

They had their own amendment. If Ken Clarke, and the labour abstainers had voted for it, they would have avoided no deal.

If Theresa May, and your party hadn't made a mega sized cow pat of this whole debacle, we'd have been discussing the state of the pound. More up your street.

So yes they could have potentially stopped no deal, but as per Fifes theory they actually want a no deal. Do you agree with him? I have always said a no deal is surely best for SNP as it increases the grievance (in this case probably deserved)

But I am correct that technically they could well have stopped No Deal by voting for his proposal which would have been the only one to have parliament support, you dress it up whatever way you want though if it makes you feel better.

[ronaldo7]

So yes they could have potentially stopped no deal, but as per Fifes theory they actually want a no deal. Do you agree with him? I have always said a no deal is surely best for SNP as it increases the grievance (in this case probably deserved)

But I am correct that technically they could well have stopped No Deal by voting for his proposal, you dress it up whatever way you want though if it makes you feel better.

Oi Jimmy, you're the one dressing up. I'll leave it at that.

[JeMeSouviens]

So yes they could have potentially stopped no deal, but as per Fifes theory they actually want a no deal. Do you agree with him? I have always said a no deal is surely best for SNP as it increases the grievance (in this case probably deserved)

But I am correct that technically they could well have stopped No Deal by voting for his proposal, you dress it up whatever way you want though if it makes you feel better.

Nope, you're plain wrong. Or if I'm still on ignore (hope so), he's plain wrong.

Actually why am I bothering to reply to this desperate rubbish anyway?

[Colr]

"If Labour is the largest party it's going to be at the beck and call of those jocks of the SNP"

...is the only message Boris needs to guarantee a majority, having Brown as PM was too much for some down south to stomach, god forbid having a party full of "those jocks" actually influencing things.

Ot what I pick up in London. Most people with an objection to Labour find enough motivation in Corbyn. Many, but not all, have some respect for Sturgeon.

[ronaldo7]

So yes they could have potentially stopped no deal, but as per Fifes theory they actually want a no deal. Do you agree with him? I have always said a no deal is surely best for SNP as it increases the grievance (in this case probably deserved)

But I am correct that technically they could well have stopped No Deal by voting for his proposal which would have been the only one to have parliament support, you dress it up whatever way you want though if it makes you feel better.

I think you need to go back and read both amendments.

[Callum_62]

If a border goes up in Ireland, Independence for Scotland is nowhere near a certainty.Why?
We would just use alternative arrangements



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[James310]

Nope, you're plain wrong. Or if I'm still on ignore (hope so), he's plain wrong.

Actually why am I bothering to reply to this desperate rubbish anyway?

It would have been the only proposal that would have had parliamentary support, all the indicitive votes on alternatives failed, this one failed by 3 votes. If the SNP had voted for this, while not guaranteed to be implemented it would have been the only option that would have carried a parliament majority. As it would have been the only option voted on to carry a majority in parliament there is every chance it could have happened.

Why is that desperate rubbish?

[Fife-Hibee]

Theresa May's Tories obviously did try for a deal but made it quite clear that it wasn't going to include a permanent customs union which was what Clarke's indicative vote proposed. So, as usual, the desperate attempt to turn absolutely every last ******g thing into SNP bad fails again. :rolleyes:


ANYWAY, WHAT ABOUT THE ******G CURRENCY ALREADY?

They didn't try for a deal. They knew the deal was never going to pass through parliament which was the whole point. Just more smokes and mirrors.

The US had their trade deal ready and waiting for a NO deal britain before the "vote" even took place.

[JeMeSouviens]

It would have been the only proposal that would have had parliamentary support, all the indicitive votes on alternatives failed, this one failed by 3 votes. If the SNP had voted for this, while not guaranteed to be implemented it would have been the only option that would have carried a parliament majority. As it would have been the only option voted on to carry a majority in parliament there is every chance it could have happened.

Why is that desperate rubbish?


May's Tories wouldn't even talk to a receptive Corbyn about a permanent CU. It was a govt red line. There was no way they were going to adopt it because it won an indicative vote. That's why it's rubbish. It's desperate because you will try and turn a discussion about literally anything into the SNP's fault. I haven't checked, but I'm sure they caused the Dunfermline fire and the disappearance of Maddy McCann as well.

[James310]

May's Tories wouldn't even talk to a receptive Corbyn about a permanent CU. It was a govt red line. There was no way they were going to adopt it because it won an indicative vote. That's why it's rubbish. It's desperate because you will try and turn a discussion about literally anything into the SNP's fault. I haven't checked, but I'm sure they caused the Dunfermline fire and the disappearance of Maddy McCann as well.

The alternative votes were about finding a compromise. My post was based on fact and then an opinion, you happen to have a different opinion but it's a bit extreme but not surprising you call it 'desperate rubbish'

It's a fact that if the SNP had voted for the Ken Clarke proposal it would have been the single alternative compromise put forward that would have had parliamentary support, by a majority of around 32.

Being the only alternative solution to have a parliament majority and having received parliamentary majority the first time there is nothing to suggest it would not have received continued support. That's an opinion, based on the fact it would have received a majority the first time round.

Ok, you have a different opinion but you have a bad habit of declaring everyone who has a different opinion as a liar or give the impression they talk rubbish, but they only have a different opinion to yours.

So it's not desperate rubbish at all, it's just your opinion is different to mine. I remember this from a while back where by if anyone has a different opinion to you they are a classified as either a liar or dismissed as talking rubbish. Maybe you could have said something along the lines of while if the SNP had voted for the proposal I don't think it would have got the support it required to be implemented because of the reasons you give, which was your opinion and not a fact.

Opinion - a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

Fact - a thing that is proven or known to be true.

[The Modfather]

:yawn2:

[James310]

:yawn2:

It is boring, we for example generally disagree on most things but not once have I come out and accused you of peddling desperate rubbish or called you a degenerate. We disagree and have different opinions but we don't resort to using that kind of inflammatory language.

There are a few that seem to want to play to the crowd and make themselves look clever by using that language but I would hope we could keep the conversation on topic and respectful.

[Hibbyradge]

Why?
We would just use alternative arrangements



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Simple.

Hang on, what alternative arrangements, and why haven't they been proposed for Northern Ireland?

[G B Young]

They have no intentions of stopping a NO deal.

It's a rare event, but I agree with you. It seemed pretty obvious from the start that the SNP's saw No deal as their most effective leverage for another independence referendum.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Simple.

Hang on, what alternative arrangements, and why haven't they been proposed for Northern Ireland?

NI is still part of the UK, we wouldn't be after independence. We'll maybe build a wall but pay for it ourselves.

[Hibbyradge]

NI is still part of the UK, we wouldn't be after independence. We'll maybe build a wall but pay for it ourselves.

What am I missing here?

If independence would mean a border with England, then achieving a majority for Yes would be more challenging than if there was an alternative solution.

Loads of people would baulk at the idea of a border with England. I hate the idea, although I'm a strong enough Yes to still support independence.

[G B Young]

What I find hard to swallow from these MPs who claim to be taking the moral high ground is that Parliament has in fact already accepted No Deal by voting for Article 50 and the Witdrawal Act, which specifies No Deal as the default:

No deal – the default
To avert defeat in a series of votes during 2018, the government accepted a number of amendments to the EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018 and to other legislation, including the Taxation (Cross-Border Trade) Act 2018. The result is that provisions directing a “no deal” exit are scattered through that primary legislation. Perhaps the most significant amendment (though not the only one that would have to be addressed and overturned) is the definition of “exit day” in the EU (Withdrawal) Act. That definition, which specifies 29 March, attaches to a number of key provisions, which together mean that the UK would leave the EU with or without a deal. The EU (Withdrawal) Act 2018 is primary legislation. It cannot be overridden by a mere resolution of the House of Commons. Nor (being a constitutional statute) is it subject to the doctrine of implied repeal. Its provisions can be reversed only by new primary legislation, explicitly drafted to repeal and replace it.

[James310]

What am I missing here?

If independence would mean a border with England, then achieving a majority for Yes would be more challenging than if there was an alternative solution.

Loads of people would baulk at the idea of a border with England. I hate the idea, although I'm a strong enough Yes to still support independence.

I suggest you are missing nothing at all.

[G B Young]

What also sticks in the craw is the tiresome and misleading mantra that 'no-one voted for no deal'.

No one voted for any type of deal. In fact I'd guess a good number of voters weren't even aware there would need to be a deal. Many will have assumed we could just leave. Voters were asked simply if they wanted to leave the EU, having been assured that their MPs would enact whatever the verdict proved to be. There was no 'Yes, but only if...' option on the ballot paper.

[grunt]

In fact I'd guess a good number of voters weren't even aware there would need to be a deal. Many will have assumed we could just leave. Two short sentences which demonstrate very clearly why there should never have been a referendum in the first place, and why this slavish desire to hang the nation's future on it is so wrong.

[stoneyburn hibs]

What am I missing here?

If independence would mean a border with England, then achieving a majority for Yes would be more challenging than if there was an alternative solution.

Loads of people would baulk at the idea of a border with England. I hate the idea, although I'm a strong enough Yes to still support independence.

I also don't like or want it, and don't think it would ever be the case after independence.
The point I was trying to get across was that a hard Brexit imo would push us over the line, regardless of that discussion.

[stoneyburn hibs]

I suggest you are missing nothing at all.

I suggest that you should stop playing to the crowd.

[Callum_62]

What also sticks in the craw is the tiresome and misleading mantra that 'no-one voted for no deal'.

No one voted for any type of deal. In fact I'd guess a good number of voters weren't even aware there would need to be a deal. Many will have assumed we could just leave. Voters were asked simply if they wanted to leave the EU, having been assured that their MPs would enact whatever the verdict proved to be. There was no 'Yes, but only if...' option on the ballot paper.I'm pretty sure I remember alot of chat on deals back in 2016.

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[James310]

I suggest that you should stop playing to the crowd.

How is that, did I call you out for writing desperate rubbish or call you a degenerate? If you want a hard border with England just say so. It's a valid opinion.

[Hibbyradge]

I also don't like or want it, and don't think it would ever be the case after independence.


Isn't that exactly what the likes of Gove said about Northern Ireland?

Three and a half years down the line, and we're no closer to a solution.

Why would it be different with Scotland? :dunno:

I'm not saying that a majority for independence wouldn't be found, it might, but the border issue could potentially be extremely damaging to the Yes case.

[JeMeSouviens]

The alternative votes were about finding a compromise. My post was based on fact and then an opinion, you happen to have a different opinion but it's a bit extreme but not surprising you call it 'desperate rubbish'

It's a fact that if the SNP had voted for the Ken Clarke proposal it would have been the single alternative compromise put forward that would have had parliamentary support, by a majority of around 32.

Being the only alternative solution to have a parliament majority and having received parliamentary majority the first time there is nothing to suggest it would not have received continued support. That's an opinion, based on the fact it would have received a majority the first time round.

Ok, you have a different opinion but you have a bad habit of declaring everyone who has a different opinion as a liar or give the impression they talk rubbish, but they only have a different opinion to yours.

So it's not desperate rubbish at all, it's just your opinion is different to mine. I remember this from a while back where by if anyone has a different opinion to you they are a classified as either a liar or dismissed as talking rubbish. Maybe you could have said something along the lines of while if the SNP had voted for the proposal I don't think it would have got the support it required to be implemented because of the reasons you give, which was your opinion and not a fact.

Opinion - a view or judgement formed about something, not necessarily based on fact or knowledge.

Fact - a thing that is proven or known to be true.

To believe that the SNP not voting for a permanent CU in an indicative vote is the reason we end up with no deal Brexit you’d need to be either:

- thicker than a whale omelette

or

- so implacably, obsessively opposed to Scottish independence that you’d just come up with interminable nonsense and hope a wee bit of the mud sticks

Or both I suppose.

[JeMeSouviens]

Isn't that exactly what the likes of Gove said about Northern Ireland?

Three and a half years down the line, and we're no closer to a solution.

Why would it be different with Scotland? :dunno:

I'm not saying that a majority for independence wouldn't be found, it might, but the border issue could potentially be extremely damaging to the Yes case.

It depends what you mean by border. It is certainly true that if Scotland is in the EU and rUK is not in a customs union with the EU then there will be checks and bureaucracy on goods crossing the border. The situation with individuals crossing is much less clear.

[James310]

To believe that the SNP not voting for a permanent CU in an indicative vote is the reason we end up with no deal Brexit you’d need to be either:

- thicker than a whale omelette

or

- so implacably, obsessively opposed to Scottish independence that you’d just come up with interminable nonsense and hope a wee bit of the mud sticks

Or both I suppose.

You're just making stuff up now. I asked a question (hence the question mark after my comment) that if the SNP had voted for the Ken Clark proposal could it have stopped a no deal. It was not a statement, if it was a statement there would be no question mark. But don't let that FACT get in the way of a cool story.

Again you could have replied along the lines of 'no, I don't think it would have because of X, Y and Z' but that would be asking too much.

[JeMeSouviens]

You're just making stuff up now. I asked a question (hence the question mark after my comment) that if the SNP had voted for the Ken Clark proposal could it have stopped a no deal. It was not a statement, if it was a statement there would be no question mark. But don't let that FACT get in the way of a cool story.

Again you could have replied along the lines of 'no, I don't think it would have because of X, Y and Z' but that would be asking too much.

Yeah right.

Do Levein’s Hearts play such eye wateringly awful football that even Hearts fans would rather go to the cinema?

Just a question, obv I’m not insinuating anything...

[lapsedhibee]

Two short sentences which demonstrate very clearly why there should never have been a referendum in the first place, and why this slavish desire to hang the nation's future on it is so wrong.

Yup.

[mjhibby]

Seems to me that most folk didn't have a clue what voting yes would entail as nothing was explained. All this crap about flouting democracy by having another vote is utter nonsense. Nobody knows what will happen as there was no groundwork done before the vote. Cameron assumed that it would be a resounding no so nothing was investigated. Now we are left with the possibility of thousands of jobs going,shortages and having to build bridges with our EU allies. Johnson doesn't give a toss if tens of thousands lose their job. He's only interested in whatever gets him power. Take the blinkers off. Stop this nonsense and find a path to leave the EU. As Jeremy paxman said today Johnson is an affront to Britain and the worst possible person to be in charge right now

[Moulin Yarns]

Breaking news just flashed up.


Government expected to suspend Parliament from mid-September, meaning MPs have limited time to stop no-deal Brexit

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632

[wpj]

FFS

BBC News - Government to ask Queen to suspend Parliament
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632

[Callum_62]

FFS

BBC News - Government to ask Queen to suspend Parliament
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632Wow, democracy.

Regardless of your views on anything surely no one thinks this is a correct course of action?

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[bigwheel]

Breaking news just flashed up.


Government expected to suspend Parliament from mid-September, meaning MPs have limited time to stop no-deal Brexit

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632

Regardless of people’s political views - this should be viewed as the gravest act by an government in all our living history ...this is the act of a totalitarian regime..not a modern democracy

[wpj]

I am genuinely at a loss to see how this is anything but the act of a total egotistical self serving erse hole. It's sabotage of a democratic system. Has to be opposed in every way possible!

[Callum_62]

I am genuinely at a loss to see how this is anything but the act of a total egotistical self serving erse hole. It's sabotage of a democratic system. Has to be opposed in every way possible!Business as usual. Domestic policy etc

When was the last time parliament actually sat? [emoji23]

Edit - 5 weeks ago is the last time they sat.
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[CloudSquall]

Ahh...so this is what "taking back control" meant? :greengrin

The UK is so divided at this point it's hard to see anything other than a train wreck on the horizon..

[Moulin Yarns]

A bit more about the closure of parliament.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632


I hope the queen says no.

[Callum_62]

Wtf is the tory party all about?

Bog standard?, all govts do ut

We have the biggest constitutional change in our lifetimes on the horizon with there own analysis painting a very bleak picture and they decide now is the time to do this, so they can present there domestic agenda

Aye, right then

Honestly, how anyone can think this is the best we can do is beyond me

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[CloudSquall]

Sterling taking a battering in the forex markets following this news.

[G B Young]

Business as usual. Domestic policy etc

When was the last time parliament actually sat? [emoji23]

Edit - 5 weeks ago is the last time they sat.
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I've never been able to fathom why Parliament shuts down for such a long time. In particular in the midst of such constitutional upheaval. Even without Brexit, where is it decreed that parliamentary business somehow ceases during the summer months?

Why don't MPs simply have a set number of weeks' holiday to be taken when it suits them and make arrangements with their constituency office to manage things during their absence - instead of them all departing Westminster en masse? I've heard it said that they go back to their constituencies during the recess, but how many of us are aware of our MP's increased local presence during the summer?

[Moulin Yarns]

It would have been the only proposal that would have had parliamentary support, all the indicitive votes on alternatives failed, this one failed by 3 votes. If the SNP had voted for this, while not guaranteed to be implemented it would have been the only option that would have carried a parliament majority. As it would have been the only option voted on to carry a majority in parliament there is every chance it could have happened.

Why is that desperate rubbish?

Revisionist view.

In reality 40 Tories abstained and another 236 voted against the Clarke motion. Do they somehow not count in your opinion?

In case you need evidence, here you go.

https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Details/666?byMember=false#noes
(https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Details/666?byMember=false#noes)




The Boles motion would have won if 228 tories hadn't voted against it and 52 hadn't abstained.

https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Details/667?byMember=false#noes

(https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Details/667?byMember=false#noes)


The second referendum would have passed if 253 tories had not voted against and 45 hadn't abstained.

https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Details/668?byMember=false#notrecorded


So don't try and blame everything on the SNP. Your Tories are more to blame as more of them voted against or abstained from the votes than there are SNP MPs.

[Peevemor]

I've never been able to fathom why Parliament shuts down for such a long time. In particular in the midst of such constitutional upheaval. Even without Brexit, where is it decreed that parliamentary business somehow ceases during the summer months?

Why don't MPs simply have a set number of weeks' holiday to be taken when it suits them and make arrangements with their constituency office to manage things during their absence - instead of them all departing Westminster en masse? I've heard it said that they go back to their constituencies during the recess, but how many of us are aware of our MP's increased local presence during the summer?

The EU heid bummers warned Westminster to use the 31 October extension wisely and constructively instead of just naffing off on holiday. Between the leadership contest and the summer recess, it's impossible to say that we've been well represented.

[Colr]

I am genuinely at a loss to see how this is anything but the act of a total egotistical self serving erse hole. It's sabotage of a democratic system. Has to be opposed in every way possible!

He’s making sure he can force brexit through.

It’s what he said he would do.

We’ll crash out then have to deal with the consequences.

[Colr]

A bit more about the closure of parliament.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632


I hope the queen says no.

How can she? She can’t intervene.

[Moulin Yarns]

I've never been able to fathom why Parliament shuts down for such a long time. In particular in the midst of such constitutional upheaval. Even without Brexit, where is it decreed that parliamentary business somehow ceases during the summer months?

Why don't MPs simply have a set number of weeks' holiday to be taken when it suits them and make arrangements with their constituency office to manage things during their absence - instead of them all departing Westminster en masse? I've heard it said that they go back to their constituencies during the recess, but how many of us are aware of our MP's increased local presence during the summer?

I saw John Swinney at the Aberfeldy Show 3 weeks ago, does that count?

[Peevemor]

He’s making sure he can force brexit through.

It’s what he said he would do.

We’ll crash out then have to deal with the consequences.

I've just explained what's going on to my French colleagues. The honestly can't believe it.

[G B Young]

A bit more about the closure of parliament.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632


I hope the queen says no.

I've just read that full report and apparently all parliaments are usually suspended at the start of every new session:

'Parliament is normally suspended - or prorogued - for a short period before a new session begins. It is done by the Queen, on the advice of the prime minister. Parliament returns from summer recess - or break - next week and another recess was expected to take place later in September to cover the political conference season.'

How is this latest plan different to what normally happens? Is it due to the length of time the suspension is likely to last? And there's yet another recess planned for party conference season?! No wonder the Brexit process has dragged on so long with such archaic conventions taking precedence over urgent business.

[Moulin Yarns]

How can she? She can’t intervene.

Well,


The Queen will be asked by the government to suspend Parliament

Wouldn't it be funny if she said no?

[Colr]

I've never been able to fathom why Parliament shuts down for such a long time. In particular in the midst of such constitutional upheaval. Even without Brexit, where is it decreed that parliamentary business somehow ceases during the summer months?

Why don't MPs simply have a set number of weeks' holiday to be taken when it suits them and make arrangements with their constituency office to manage things during their absence - instead of them all departing Westminster en masse? I've heard it said that they go back to their constituencies during the recess, but how many of us are aware of our MP's increased local presence during the summer?

Well, for the last 3 years none of them has been doing any governing anyway.

[G B Young]

How can she? She can’t intervene.

Indeed. It's just a procedural formality.

[CloudSquall]

Robert Peston on Twitter...

""A number 10 source told me: “If MPs pass a no confidence vote next week, then we'll stay in No10, we won't recommend any alternative government,...“we'll dissolve Parliament and have an election between 1-5 November -- and that means no time for legislation”. Flippin’ ‘eck.""

[Callum_62]

Robert Peston on Twitter...

""A number 10 source told me: “If MPs pass a no confidence vote next week, then we'll stay in No10, we won't recommend any alternative government,...“we'll dissolve Parliament and have an election between 1-5 November -- and that means no time for legislation”. Flippin’ ‘eck.""
That definately sounds democratic to me [emoji106][emoji106]

I'm so glad we have taken back control and gotton rid of they undemocratic, enemy of the people remoaners.

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[JeMeSouviens]

Robert Peston on Twitter...

""A number 10 source told me: “If MPs pass a no confidence vote next week, then we'll stay in No10, we won't recommend any alternative government,...“we'll dissolve Parliament and have an election between 1-5 November -- and that means no time for legislation”. Flippin’ ‘eck.""


They are treating this like a wizard wheeze in the lower 6th common room. :rolleyes:

[Moulin Yarns]

Robert Peston on Twitter...

""A number 10 source told me: “If MPs pass a no confidence vote next week, then we'll stay in No10, we won't recommend any alternative government,...“we'll dissolve Parliament and have an election between 1-5 November -- and that means no time for legislation”. Flippin’ ‘eck.""


1st to 5th of November. That's from a Friday to a Tuesday! General elections have traditionally been on Thursday, so I will believe it when I see it 7th November is the first Thursday after crash out day.

[Moulin Yarns]

I see Laura Kuenssberg is back from her holiday, Boris was waiting for her before announcement of suspension of Parliament, who knew she was so powerful?

[Moulin Yarns]

Senior No 10 source says 'this is about the NHS and violent crime, not Brexit, and the courts have no locus to interfere in a bog standard Queen's Speech process' ....

[Moulin Yarns]

Bercow weighs in - 'this move represents a constitutional outrage. However it is dressed up it is blindingly obvious that the purpose of prorogation now would be to stop Parliament debating Brexit and performing its duty'

[Moulin Yarns]

.@IanMurrayMP say a cross-party group of more than 70 MPs and peers will now consider seeking an interim interdict (similar to an injunction in England and Wales) in the Court of Session to block prorogation.
A hearing is currently scheduled for September 6.

[James310]

Revisionist view.

In reality 40 Tories abstained and another 236 voted against the Clarke motion. Do they somehow not count in your opinion?

In case you need evidence, here you go.

https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Details/666?byMember=false#noes
(https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Details/666?byMember=false#noes)




The Boles motion would have won if 228 tories hadn't voted against it and 52 hadn't abstained.

https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Details/667?byMember=false#noes

(https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Details/667?byMember=false#noes)


The second referendum would have passed if 253 tories had not voted against and 45 hadn't abstained.

https://commonsvotes.digiminster.com/Divisions/Details/668?byMember=false#notrecorded


So don't try and blame everything on the SNP. Your Tories are more to blame as more of them voted against or abstained from the votes than there are SNP MPs.

Dress it up and stick some make up on it if it makes you feel better. It's a fact that the Ken Clarke vote failed by 3 votes and if the SNP had voted for it then it would have been the only alternative solution to carry a parliamentary majority. What would have happened next is an opinion.

Looking back I think a number of MPs and party leaders might be thinking if only we had voted for X, Y or Z then just maybe we would not have the news we have a this morning.

[Moulin Yarns]

Dress it up and stick some make up on it if it makes you feel better. It's a fact that the Ken Clarke vote failed by 3 votes and if the SNP had voted for it then it would have been the only alternative solution to carry a parliamentary majority. What would have happened next is an opinion.

Looking back I think a number of MPs and party leaders might be thinking if only we had voted for X, Y or Z then just maybe we would not have the news we have a this morning.

But why did the tories vote against it? Had they abstained the motion would have passed.

See how stupid your argument is?


Anyway, that is a boat that has sailed. Now Boris is bullying parliament into throwing the country of a cliff edge.

[Kato]

Indeed. It's just a procedural formality.

They are asking her to get involved in politics by closing parliament for a political end. She isn't allowed to get involved so should decline the request.

[Colr]

Robert Peston on Twitter...

""A number 10 source told me: “If MPs pass a no confidence vote next week, then we'll stay in No10, we won't recommend any alternative government,...“we'll dissolve Parliament and have an election between 1-5 November -- and that means no time for legislation”. Flippin’ ‘eck.""


Can he do that. I thought a separate vote was required for an election.

[Mr Grieves]

Anyway, that is a boat that has sailed. Now Boris is bullying parliament into throwing the country of a cliff edge.

That'll be the SNP's fault too.

[Moulin Yarns]

Copy of the letter from the prime minister to the tories.


BREAKING: Boris Johnson has written to all Tory MPs laying out his plans to suspend parliament and hold a Queen's Speech on 14 October. https://t.co/tSkxfKvslz

[Mr Grieves]

Ruth Davidson doing what she always does in a difficult situation - hide

https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1166661015683129344?s=09

[Moulin Yarns]

“We're not going to wait until October 31 before getting on with our plans"

Boris Johnson says the move to suspend Parliament will still provide “ample time... for MPs to debate the EU, to debate #Brexit and all the other issues”

https://t.co/rchrc3fO2Y https://t.co/puIiUHAz1U



Aye, because not sitting and debating provides ample time to debate. Don't you have to love the logic of the tories.

[Callum_62]

Ruth Davidson doing what she always does in a difficult situation - hide

https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1166661015683129344?s=09It's an abolsute joke she isn't coming out and giving her opinion on this

All leaders should be

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[Moulin Yarns]

It's an abolsute joke she isn't coming out and giving her opinion on this

All leaders should be

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All leaders are. It's the timid sheep who follow regardless.

[Ozyhibby]

Problem remainers have is they are still having meetings, keeping options open etc etc . Meanwhile Johnson and Cummings are acting decisively.
They better get their act together by the weekend or no deal it is.


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[CloudSquall]

Ruth Davidson doing what she always does in a difficult situation - hide

https://twitter.com/C4Ciaran/status/1166661015683129344?s=09

The Scottish media is on par with the North Korean media when it comes to their admiration / reporting on Davidson, I've never seen someone get a free pass like her.

Has she ever once been taken to task on anything?

[CloudSquall]

Nichola Kane
@STVnichola 19m

Scottish Secretary Alister Jack has cancelled photocall and a prearranged interview with @stvnews
...





FFS....

[lucky]

This move by Johnston is undemocratic, this cant be acceptable whether you support Brexit or not. I do think that this is a great help for those wanting an independent Scotland.

[The Modfather]

This move by Johnston is undemocratic, this cant be acceptable whether you support Brexit or not. I do think that this is a great help for those wanting an independent Scotland.

Will be interesting to get the opinion of those opposed to independence and what, if any, implications this has on the independence debate.

[Moulin Yarns]

Will be interesting to get the opinion of those opposed to independence and what, if any, implications this has on the independence debate.

I think you may have a long wait.

[Smartie]

I don't like this move, I don't believe in Brexit and I believe in an independent Scotland but why should this be of direct relevance to anybody's opinion on independence?

[Ozyhibby]

I don't like this move, I don't believe in Brexit and I believe in an independent Scotland but why should this be of direct relevance to anybody's opinion on independence?

Now that people can see they will shut Westminster to get their own way then people will now also know that they will happily close the Scottish Parliament as well if it suits them.
People in Scotland should be very wary about today’s developments.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Interesting take on the process, Theresa May's withdrawal agreement can be put back to parliament for a vote after the closure. This could be the best way to stop a no deal brexit.


Prorogation of Parliament - Commons Library briefing - UK Parliament - Since no-one else has mentioned this - It means that the Withdrawal Agreement can return and be voted on again, thus offering MPs the opportunity to avoid No Deal https://t.co/6kHT74HU5O

[Moulin Yarns]

Please sign and RT, #StopTheCoup and halt the #prorogation of Parliament!

https://t.co/DMfeiXM0zN

[Moulin Yarns]

The Archbishop of Canterbury is in talks with MPs to chair a citizen’s assembly intended to stop a no-deal Brexit ...
😂😂😂😂 https://t.co/DtA6ffGb9Z

[ACLeith]

Such a parcel of rogues in a nation

[Mr Grieves]

Nichola Kane
@STVnichola 19m

Scottish Secretary Alister Jack has cancelled photocall and a prearranged interview with @stvnews
...





FFS....

https://twitter.com/BBCandrewkerr/status/1166675540713099264?s=19

*****bag

[The Harp Awakes]

Now that people can see they will shut Westminster to get their own way then people will now also know that they will happily close the Scottish Parliament as well if it suits them.
People in Scotland should be very wary about today’s developments.


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Yes, I'm torn between being outraged by Boris' tactics and delighted that this act is very likely to boost the yes vote and accelerate independence.

[CloudSquall]

https://twitter.com/BBCandrewkerr/status/1166675540713099264?s=19

*****bag

He finally appeared...
(https://twitter.com/BBCandrewkerr)
(https://twitter.com/BBCandrewkerr)BBC Andrew Kerr
@BBCandrewkerr

Alister Jack has now spoken on the steps of the Scotland Office - essentially saying this is a perfectly normal procedure. He says the affront to democracy is the SNP and other opposition parties trying to block Brexit.



C'mon Ruth, let's here your defense of this, given how anti Brexit and even more anti no-deal you were...

[Mr Grieves]

He finally appeared...
(https://twitter.com/BBCandrewkerr)
(https://twitter.com/BBCandrewkerr)BBC Andrew Kerr
@BBCandrewkerr

Alister Jack has now spoken on the steps of the Scotland Office - essentially saying this is a perfectly normal procedure. He says the affront to democracy is the SNP and other opposition parties trying to block Brexit.



C'mon Ruth, let's here your defense of this, given how anti Brexit and even more anti no-deal you were...

OK, not a *****bag.

He would have been better not speaking to the press rather than coming out with that pile of keek.

[Fife-Hibee]

If they're serious about parliament suspension to ensure they get the hard brexit they want, then what's to stop them from suspending Holyrood whenever they feel like it?

[JeMeSouviens]

If they're serious about parliament suspension to ensure they get the hard brexit they want, then what's to stop them from suspending Holyrood whenever they feel like it?

There has never been anything to stop the UK govt shutting down Holyrood: "power devolved is power retained". :wink:

[lucky]

This move will lead to the end of the UK, which many on here will celebrate. But if getting a deal to get out of EU is this hard how difficult will it to negotiate with the same people to get Scotland a deal to leave the rUK?

[Fife-Hibee]

This move will lead to the end of the UK, which many on here will celebrate. But if getting a deal to get out of EU is this hard how difficult will it to negotiate with the same people to get Scotland a deal to leave the rUK?

Not very difficult at all when over £250,000,000,000 worth of debt is on the line. Either they play ball, or we walk away with a clean slate.

[ronaldo7]

If they're serious about parliament suspension to ensure they get the hard brexit they want, then what's to stop them from suspending Holyrood whenever they feel like it?

Our overlords can do that any time they want. The permanacy part of the vow, was a lie.

Let's hope the remaining rump of the Scottish labour party, wake up, before it's too late.

[G B Young]

Please sign and RT, #StopTheCoup and halt the #prorogation of Parliament!

https://t.co/DMfeiXM0zN

I never see the point of these petitions. So what if they are guaranteed to be debated in parliament once they pass a certain number of signatures? It won't change anything. All it proves, for the umpteenth time, is that those who voted remain are still hacked off at the prospect of leaving the EU and will take any chance to register that disapproval. We've already had one that got millions of signatures calling for Brexit to be stopped and which achieved nothing of any tangible significance.

Watching anti-Brexit parliamentary types on the lunchtime news just now was like watching a 'who's the most outraged' competition. I don't mind admitting part of me was thinking 'get it up ye'. Parliament has had more than three years to debate this and come up with a way forward and has failed utterly.

[Callum_62]

I never see the point of these petitions. So what if they are guaranteed to be debated in parliament once they pass a certain number of signatures? It won't change anything. All it proves, for the umpteenth time, is that those who voted remain are still hacked off at the prospect of leaving the EU and will take any chance to register that disapproval. We've already had one that got millions of signatures calling for Brexit to be stopped and which achieved nothing of any tangible significance.

Watching anti-Brexit parliamentary types on the lunchtime news just now was like watching a 'who's the most outraged' competition. I don't mind admitting part of me was thinking 'get it up ye'. Parliament has had more than three years to debate this and come up with a way forward and has failed utterly.Thing is, the folk getting it up them if Boris gets his way is us. The ordinary folk.

The fact the govts own analysis suggests this but they are bulldozing on regardless is a disgrace

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[G B Young]

He finally appeared...
(https://twitter.com/BBCandrewkerr)
(https://twitter.com/BBCandrewkerr)BBC Andrew Kerr
@BBCandrewkerr

Alister Jack has now spoken on the steps of the Scotland Office - essentially saying this is a perfectly normal procedure. He says the affront to democracy is the SNP and other opposition parties trying to block Brexit.



C'mon Ruth, let's here your defense of this, given how anti Brexit and even more anti no-deal you were...

The SNP don't really want to block Brexit. Nicola Sturgeon can barely disguise her glee at this development despite making all the right 'democratic outrage' noises.

[Callum_62]

The SNP don't really want to block Brexit. Nicola Sturgeon can barely disguise her glee at this development despite making all the right 'democratic outrage' noises.God, do you find anything else expect a SNP bad agenda?

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[ronaldo7]

The SNP don't really want to block Brexit. Nicola Sturgeon can barely disguise her glee at this development despite making all the right 'democratic outrage' noises.

Where is your evidence for your first sentence?

I'm seeing to many folk saying they know what the SNP are doing, and how they don't want this and that.

Just look at their record at Westminster on this one issue. Clear and concise. Put it alongside the Tories.

I've just watched the FM on the BBC, I wouldn't call her mood full of glee.

More angry, sturgeon.

[JeMeSouviens]

This move will lead to the end of the UK, which many on here will celebrate. But if getting a deal to get out of EU is this hard how difficult will it to negotiate with the same people to get Scotland a deal to leave the rUK?

Actually, most of the things that would have been up for negotiation are pre-resolved one way or another. Breaking it down:

Trade - An iScotland would be in the EEA then EU, the trade relationship between rUK and Scotland will be that between rUK and the EU/EEA. Nothing to negotiate. Same for the border arrangements, although one side or the other might try and negotiate a common travel area similar to that the UK has with the RoI.

Assets - Oil/Gas is covered by international law. Nothing to negotiate. Ditto for division of other assets.

Ongoing monetary arrangements - The SNP have dropped monetary union and in a no-deal scenario it doesn't make any sense in the long term anyway. So it's sterlingisation for a transition period to a new Scottish currency.

Debt - Is as issued by the current UK state. Unless rUK wants to give up being the recognised "successor state" (spoiler alert - more chance of James310 swapping his Union Jack pants for Saltire ones) then it stays with rUK.

Trident - We have them over a barrel. iScotland saying shift your nukes out tomorrow morning would be a catastrophe for rUK. They either hand them back to the US and give up being a nuclear power or they have to negotiate a transition that allows them to use Faslane/Coulport until they have their own facility ready,

Other things we might have co-operated with them on - defence arrangements, shared embassy/consular services abroad etc I guess there is a deal to be done and not doing it makes the setup of iScotland harder/more expensive, but if it can't none of it is catastrophic in the way that failing to do a trade deal with the EU is for the UK. Also the EU will be infinitely more receptive and helpful to iScotland as soon as Brexit is done.

[Ozyhibby]

This move will lead to the end of the UK, which many on here will celebrate. But if getting a deal to get out of EU is this hard how difficult will it to negotiate with the same people to get Scotland a deal to leave the rUK?

There is no trading relationship to negotiate when leaving the uk. Whatever deal they have with the EU is the deal we will have.
The rest is just division of assets and liabilities.


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[G B Young]

God, do you find anything else expect a SNP bad agenda?

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It's not an SNP bad agenda. In fact it's a good agenda for the SNP. As Fife Hibee (as pro independence a poster as you'll find) has explained earlier in the thread, they've long predicted a No Deal exit, but are making all the right noises about being angry about it so that they establish a moral high ground in the event of any future Scottish independence referendum.

They've tried this already by calling for another referendum almost as soon as the Brexit vote was delivered. That backfired badly on them so they've now hung their hat on a No Deal exit as being their most likely means of regaining the support they lost.

Quite how that plays with the not insignificant proportion of SNP members who voted for Brexit I don't know.

[ballengeich]

This move will lead to the end of the UK, which many on here will celebrate. But if getting a deal to get out of EU is this hard how difficult will it to negotiate with the same people to get Scotland a deal to leave the rUK?

I'm for Scottish independence, but one of the things that the events of the last three years has shown is that dissolving a long-standing union is more complex and requires more time than the enthusiasts for the split like to beliieve.

Just as Michael Gove told us that getting a deal with the EU would be the easiest task in history so the SNP leaders assured us that the break up of the UK could be finalised in around eighteen months. As the links between Scotland and the rest of the UK are even closer and more historic than those between the UK and EU I do not now find that a credible position. At the time of the Brexit referendum I thought that it would be easier for Scotland to gain independence with the UK out of the EU. I now believe that without the common market and regulations provided by the EU it will actually be more difficult and risky in practice.

[marinello59]

The SNP don't really want to block Brexit. Nicola Sturgeon can barely disguise her glee at this development despite making all the right 'democratic outrage' noises.

I’m no great fan of the SNP but that is utter nonsense.

[JeMeSouviens]

I'm for Scottish independence, but one of the things that the events of the last three years has shown is that dissolving a long-standing union is more complex and requires more time than the enthusiasts for the split like to beliieve.

Just as Michael Gove told us that getting a deal with the EU would be the easiest task in history so the SNP leaders assured us that the break up of the UK could be finalised in around eighteen months. As the links between Scotland and the rest of the UK are even closer and more historic than those between the UK and EU I do not now find that a credible position. At the time of the Brexit referendum I thought that it would be easier for Scotland to gain independence with the UK out of the EU. I now believe that without the common market and regulations provided by the EU it will actually be more difficult and risky in practice.

Actually the EU-UK negotiation didn't really take that long. The EU were very clear from the outset about what they would offer the UK (Michel Barnier's steps). The UK took years to come to anything like an opening position, although it was vague and changed every 10 minutes depending on which UK cabinet minister was speaking, Once they actually started negotiating it only took from summer 2017 to that Christmas for them to get the bones of a deal. A few more UK government u-turns later that morphed into an agreement which the UK side has so far failed to ratify.

The parameters of an ongoing iScotland-rUK relationship will mostly be set by iScotland staying in the EU's single market. The integration might be deeper but there is much less fluidity in the available outcomes and much less internal division among those trying to negotiate it.


Edit - for clarity I'm not trying to suggest that independence will be economically easy. There will be a large and painful hit especially in a no deal scenario. However, it's largely a non-negotiable hit. Even if you thought rUK might want to offer us a stellar deal like the Brexiters thought they were going to get from the EU, we already know EU rules would prevent it.

No deal makes indy much harder but much more necessary.

[G B Young]

I’m no great fan of the SNP but that is utter nonsense.

Apologies, what I meant to say was that the SNP don't really want to block a No Deal Brexit. They now see that as their best leverage to drum up support for a new independence referendum. In 2016 they were confident that the prospect of Brexit per se would be enough to see a huge surge in support for independence. That failed to materialise, but they'll be more confident a No Deal Brexit will tip the scales.

[Moulin Yarns]

Britain is so confused the current contenders for "saving democracy" are the Queen, Sinn Fein or the Archbishop of Canterbury (or some combination of the above) https://t.co/3vem0gwc8S

[Moulin Yarns]

Explaining prorogation to a European.



The Queen releases a swan from Balmoral Castle. It makes its way over around 500 miles to Windsor Castle. If it arrives, parliament is prorogued. However, if a member of parliament can kill it with a Dutchman's pike before it arrives, the UK becomes a republic.

[James310]

Will be interesting to get the opinion of those opposed to independence and what, if any, implications this has on the independence debate.

I will give the Nicola Sturgeon answer, let's wait and see where we end up. We need more clarity, it's uncharted territory now etc.

Why doesn't she just ask for her S30 now, get refused and then tell us what her next move is? Or does she need to wait and see what happens as well?

[Callum_62]

I will give the Nicola Sturgeon answer, let's wait and see where we end up. We need more clarity, it's uncharted territory now etc.

Why doesn't she just ask for her S30 now, get refused and then tell us what her next move is? Or does she need to wait and see what happens as well?I think it's smart to wait and see what the 2 options will be

When I say smart, I mean on a human level rather than political

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[The Modfather]

I will give the Nicola Sturgeon answer, let's wait and see where we end up. We need more clarity, it's uncharted territory now etc.

Why doesn't she just ask for her S30 now, get refused and then tell us what her next move is? Or does she need to wait and see what happens as well?

Any opinions on today’s events?

As I’ve said all along, Westminster and UK politics is broken beyond repair.

[James310]

Any opinions on today’s events?

As I’ve said all along, Westminster and UK politics is broken beyond repair.

I am at work so don't know everything that is going on, but if he is planning on closing Parliament to facilitate a no deal Brexit then I am totally against it.

[Moulin Yarns]

I am at work so don't know everything that is going on, but if he is planning on closing Parliament to facilitate a no deal Brexit then I am totally against it.

Read this thread from 09:13 this morning and you will find all you need to know.

[Peevemor]

I am at work so don't know everything that is going on, but if he is planning on closing Parliament to facilitate a no deal Brexit then I am totally against it.

Why else do you think he's doing it?

From the Beeb


It's normal for new governments to shut down Parliament in order to hold a Queen's Speech.


The length of time varies - in 2016 Parliament was closed for four working days, while in 2014 it was closed for 13 days.


This year, Parliament would be suspended for 23 working days before the new Queen's speech on 14 October.


https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-49495575

[CloudSquall]

""The privy council held by the Queen at Balmoral has approved an order to prorogue or suspend parliament on a date between 9 and 12 September till 14 October.""

[Moulin Yarns]

I am at work so don't know everything that is going on, but if he is planning on closing Parliament to facilitate a no deal Brexit then I am totally against it.

You posted on this thread at 10:59 how can you honestly say that you don't know what is going on considering the news broke at 09:13

[Peevemor]

You posted on this thread at 10:59 how can you honestly say that you don't know what is going on considering the news broke at 09:13

I suspect he's stalling for time given that he knows what's happening is outrageous.

[James310]

You posted on this thread at 10:59 how can you honestly say that you don't know what is going on considering the news broke at 09:13

I can see the headlines, but I have not read any significant details other than people saying he is closing Parliament. I am glad my opinion is so important for you though, I am touched.

[DaveF]

You posted on this thread at 10:59 how can you honestly say that you don't know what is going on considering the news broke at 09:13

Busy fielding all the calls to Ruth Davidson probably.

[Callum_62]

23 working days after a 5 week recess.

Why such a long close down?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

The idea that this is 'business as usual' is ludicrous. It's an affront to parliamentary democracy.

It's time for all the opposition leaders to cease posturing and find a compromise to provide a viable alternative to no deal.

[Moulin Yarns]

23 working days after a 5 week recess.

Why such a long close down?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

Because he is s hit scared.

[JeMeSouviens]

I suspect he's stalling for time given that he knows what's happening is outrageous.

Hasn't decided whether it's Nicola Sturgeon or Joanna Cherry's fault yet. :wink:

[Moulin Yarns]

I can see the headlines, but I have not read any significant details other than people saying he is closing Parliament. I am glad my opinion is so important for you though, I am touched.


Here you go, needing spoon fed.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49493632

[Moulin Yarns]

Just think, if the 5 lib dems or 40 tories hadn't abstained on the Ken Clarke motion we might not have been in this debacle of Conservativism. Let's blame the snp for it.

[CloudSquall]

Oooft, this tweet from Health Secretary Matt Hancock in June has aged very well:greengrin


Matt Hancock
@MattHancock

Proroguing Parliament undermines parliamentary democracy and risks a general election. I rule it out and call on all candidates to do the same

[southsider]

Can the speaker not stop Parliament being suspended ?

[JeMeSouviens]

Just think, if the 5 lib dems or 40 tories hadn't abstained on the Ken Clarke motion we might not have been in this debacle of Conservativism. Let's blame the snp for it.

The Tories called the referendum.
The Tories explicitly stopped work on a plan if the result was Leave.
The Tories set the negotiating red lines.
The Tories negotiated the deal.
The Tories failed to deliver their own majority in parliament.
The Tories are now trying to No Deal.

Yep, defo the SNP's fault. :rolleyes:

[James310]

I never realised so many people were hanging on my every word, that's about 10 posts about me now in the last 20 minutes. Quite astounding.

It's a fantastic move and a great idea from my hero Boris, I have always been a supporter of him on here and have always been in favour of a no deal Brexit. Who likes Unions anyway, let's separate and build walls from these other countries. We need to take back control and make our own decisions. It was all Nicola Sturgeons fault anyway, for everything.

Happy now? That's what you all wanted to hear isn't it?

[CloudSquall]

I never realised so many people were hanging on my every word, that's about 10 posts about me now in the last 20 minutes. Quite astounding.

It's a fantastic move and a great idea from my hero Boris, I have always been a supporter of him on here and have always been in favour of a no deal Brexit. Who likes Unions anyway, let's separate and build walls from these other countries. We need to take back control and make our own decisions. It was all Nicola Sturgeons fault anyway, for everything.

Happy now? That's what you all wanted to hear isn't it?


Broken :greengrin

[James310]

Broken :greengrin

😂 just keeping them happy.

[The Modfather]

I never realised so many people were hanging on my every word, that's about 10 posts about me now in the last 20 minutes. Quite astounding.

It's a fantastic move and a great idea from my hero Boris, I have always been a supporter of him on here and have always been in favour of a no deal Brexit. Who likes Unions anyway, let's separate and build walls from these other countries. We need to take back control and make our own decisions. It was all Nicola Sturgeons fault anyway, for everything.

Happy now? That's what you all wanted to hear isn't it?

I’d rather hear your thoughts on what’s happened today. What the ramifications might be? What you think Ruth’s next move will be? Etc

[Kato]

Parliament has had more than three years to debate this and come up with a way forward and has failed utterly.


The ERG ran a competition to discover the best way to leave the EU. The winning entry had a plan set out over ten years to disentangle all the institutions which had EU links and to work towards a new trade deal. ERG members know exactly what they in rushing this, economic melt-down = happy hedge funders.

[Moulin Yarns]

I wouldn't recommend the book All the Galaxies by Philip Miller, set in a post Brexit, post failed 2nd independence referendum, where greater Glasgow is a separate country and there is a militia called the wardens in control.

I have seen the future and it's bleak.

[southsider]

The Pound taking a nosedive. Further falls predicted. This is only the start.

[JeMeSouviens]

I’d rather hear your thoughts on what’s happened today. What the ramifications might be? What you think Ruth’s next move will be? Etc

I'd rather almost anything else.

[Callum_62]

The Pound taking a nosedive. Further falls predicted. This is only the start.Still around 1.1 against EUR which is way better than last week

Ofocourse that's still sh*t

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[James310]

I'd rather almost anything else.

Fair enough, silence it is. If that's what you want?

[G B Young]

The idea that this is 'business as usual' is ludicrous. It's an affront to parliamentary democracy.

It's time for all the opposition leaders to cease posturing and find a compromise to provide a viable alternative to no deal.

They can't. If such a cross-party compromise existed it would have been found by now but if anything tangible has been established over the last three and bit years it's that parliament is incapable of coming up with anything more viable than no deal. They're hopeless, the lot of them. Re-opening the 'debate' would achieve nothing.

[southsider]

Still around 1.1 against EUR which is way better than last week

Ofocourse that's still sh*t

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
I only got 95 cents for every pound I transferred into my Spanish Bank Account today.

[Moulin Yarns]

Fair enough, silence it is. If that's what you want?

👍. 🍺. 🙏

[Callum_62]

I only got 95 cents for every pound I transferred into my Spanish Bank Account today.1.1 being the market rate

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

They can't. If such a cross-party compromise existed it would have been found by now but if anything tangible has been established over the last three and bit years it's that parliament is incapable of coming up with anything more viable than no deal. They're hopeless, the lot of them. Re-opening the 'debate' would achieve nothing.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49496517

[James310]

👍. 🍺. 🙏

Well why did you ask for my opinion early, make your mind up. Flip flopping all over the place.

[Moulin Yarns]

Well why did you ask for my opinion early, make your mind up. Flip flopping all over the place.

I didn't. Another fact proved to be wrong.

Maybe this should have been on the tories are liars thread instead? 🤔😉

[James310]

I didn't. Another fact proved to be wrong.

Maybe this should have been on the tories are liars thread instead? 🤔😉

For someone who wants me silenced you show an unhealthy, almost stalkerish interest.

A bit scary. If it's not silly little jokes its something else. Strange behaviour.

[Callum_62]

For someone who wants me silenced you show an unhealthy, almost stalkerish interest.

A bit scary. If it's not silly little jokes its something else. Strange behaviour.Look - over there!

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

For someone who wants me silenced you show an unhealthy, almost stalkerish interest.

A bit scary. If it's not silly little jokes its something else. Strange behaviour.

Still, it's a tory lie.

[James310]

Look - over there!

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

Well I am either silenced, which 2 have said they want, or not. On the one hand I have someone pressing me for my opinions on today and then on the other I have a couple of others saying they wished I never said another word. Awfully confusing, flip flopping all over the place.

[James310]

Still, it's a tory lie.

What is?

I know a few others accused you of not being in the real world on another thread so maybe have a break and come back when you enter the real world.

[The Modfather]

Well I am either silenced, which 2 have said they want, or not. On the one hand I have someone pressing me for my opinions on today and then on the other I have a couple of others saying they wished I never said another word. Awfully confusing, flip flopping all over the place.

You could maybe respond to those that engage with you and ignore the ones that don’t want to 🤔

[Moulin Yarns]

Well I am either silenced, which 2 have said they want, or not. On the one hand I have someone pressing me for my opinions on today and then on the other I have a couple of others saying they wished I never said another word. Awfully confusing, flip flopping all over the place.

Flip flopping: making a completely opposite opinion.



https://www.collinsdictionary.com/dictionary/english/flip-flopper


I think you will find that those who are asking you for answers are not the ones that are wanting silence. But don't let that get in the way of your diametrically opposite views.

[Moulin Yarns]

What is?

I know a few others accused you of not being in the real world on another thread so maybe have a break and come back when you enter the real world.

You accused me of flip flopping. LIE

You said I had asked you a question then wished you were silent. LIE

Remind me, how many snp MPs abstained on the Clarke motion, and how many tories abstained?

[James310]

You accused me of flip flopping. LIE

You said I had asked you a question then wished you were silent. LIE

Remind me, how many snp MPs abstained on the Clarke motion, and how many tories abstained?

You don't know if you are coming or going today.

[Moulin Yarns]

You could maybe respond to those that engage with you and ignore the ones that don’t want to 🤔

👍Too sensible

[Moulin Yarns]

You don't know if you are coming or going today.

You really need to stop. Nobody knows what you are on about.

I know exactly what I mean, that you have trouble with the simple things in life is not my problem.

[G B Young]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-49496517

Even if that were to succeed, it wouldn't move the 'debate' on any further. It would likely just subject us to more stalemate.

All manner of cross-party initiatives have been put forward and failed. Parliament has proved time and again that it is unable to get a consensus on how to deliver Brexit, so from that perspective the government's move today will play out well with a lot of the electorate who have been crying out for some sort of decisive movement - even the remain voters interviewed on the lunchtime news (granted, the BBC must have had to gather the views of punters in a rush this morning) accepted that something has to give.

The whole shambles should have been a cross-party issue right from the start, but I'm not sure we wouldn't have arrived at the same sorry situation even if it had been. There are simply too many self-serving and conflicting agendas at play and when all's finally said and done it we'll probably all reflect that a no deal exit was the most likely conclusion all along.

[Moulin Yarns]

For someone who wants me silenced you show an unhealthy, almost stalkerish interest.

A bit scary. If it's not silly little jokes its something else. Strange behaviour.

Pot and kettle come to mind.

[JeMeSouviens]

You really need to stop. Nobody knows what you are on about.

I know exactly what I mean, that you have trouble with the simple things in life is not my problem.

George Bernard Shaw - "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

Got sucked into the **** yesterday but time to get back on the GBS track. :aok:

[Moulin Yarns]

Even if that were to succeed, it wouldn't move the 'debate' on any further. It would likely just subject us to more stalemate.

All manner of cross-party initiatives have been put forward and failed. Parliament has proved time and again that it is unable to get a consensus on how to deliver Brexit, so from that perspective the government's move today will play out well with a lot of the electorate who have been crying out for some sort of decisive movement - even the remain voters interviewed on the lunchtime news (granted, the BBC must have had to gather the views of punters in a rush this morning) accepted that something has to give.

The whole shambles should have been a cross-party issue right from the start, but I'm not sure we wouldn't have arrived at the same sorry situation even if it had been. There are simply too many self-serving and conflicting agendas at play and when all's finally said and done it we'll probably all reflect that a no deal exit was the most likely conclusion all along.



Earlier I posted a tweet that suggests that having the parliamentary break will allow Theresa May's withdrawal agreement to be brought back to parliament for another vote, so close to the exit date, could actually gain enough votes.

At this moment in time I would be glad if that happened, even though I have been a remainer from day 1.

[Moulin Yarns]

George Bernard Shaw - "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

Got sucked into the **** yesterday but time to get back on the GBS track. :aok:

😁👍

Emotional vampires do that.

[JeMeSouviens]

Even if that were to succeed, it wouldn't move the 'debate' on any further. It would likely just subject us to more stalemate.

All manner of cross-party initiatives have been put forward and failed. Parliament has proved time and again that it is unable to get a consensus on how to deliver Brexit, so from that perspective the government's move today will play out well with a lot of the electorate who have been crying out for some sort of decisive movement - even the remain voters interviewed on the lunchtime news (granted, the BBC must have had to gather the views of punters in a rush this morning) accepted that something has to give.

The whole shambles should have been a cross-party issue right from the start, but I'm not sure we wouldn't have arrived at the same sorry situation even if it had been. There are simply too many self-serving and conflicting agendas at play and when all's finally said and done it we'll probably all reflect that a no deal exit was the most likely conclusion all along.

There's still enough time for no deal to be stopped. Ultimately I still think it's more likely than not that Brexit won't happen at all.

[James310]

George Bernard Shaw - "I learned long ago, never to wrestle with a pig. You get dirty, and besides, the pig likes it."

Got sucked into the **** yesterday but time to get back on the GBS track. :aok:

That's a bit much, calling him a pig.

Oink oink.

[James310]

If you look back at the last few hours I have had people clambering for my opinion and those wanting me silenced.

Happy to move on, but if people still keep wanting to have a go I am happy to have a go back at them.

[G B Young]

Earlier I posted a tweet that suggests that having the parliamentary break will allow Theresa May's withdrawal agreement to be brought back to parliament for another vote, so close to the exit date, could actually gain enough votes.

At this moment in time I would be glad if that happened, even though I have been a remainer from day 1.

I didn't spot that. Is that genuinely feasible? I guess the deal remains on the table, even though it must have gathered a fair bit of dust by now.

I'd be glad of that too, but even at the 11th hour do you think our MPs would vote for it in sufficient numbers?

[Moulin Yarns]

If you look back at the last few hours I have had people clambering for my opinion and those wanting me silenced.

Happy to move on, but if people still keep wanting to have a go I am happy to have a go back at them.



Or you could just answer the questions instead of the petty name calling and vindictive points.

Adult conversation is healthy.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Bercow weighs in - 'this move represents a constitutional outrage. However it is dressed up it is blindingly obvious that the purpose of prorogation now would be to stop Parliament debating Brexit and performing its duty'



no matter what the topic is anything that p@sses off bercow is absolutely fine with me, he ain't smirking now

[GlesgaeHibby]

Davidson set to quit. Result.

[G B Young]

There's still enough time for no deal to be stopped. Ultimately I still think it's more likely than not that Brexit won't happen at all.

I also thought that was shaping up as the most likely outcome, but I think Johnson has shifted the direction of travel and if I was betting on it I'd say no deal is very much on the cards now. Whatever anyone's personal opinion of the guy he's night and day compared to May when it comes to commanding an audience. Even in his brief exchanges in Parliament as PM thus far he has absolutely wiped the floor with Corbyn & co and this has been reflected in recent electoral polling.

[CloudSquall]

Davidson set to quit. Result.

Oooooofft.

Who is going to be the next darling of the Union?

[GlesgaeHibby]

Oooooofft.

Who is going to be the next darling of the Union?

Hopefully Annie Wells - truly hopeless MSP.

[G B Young]

Davidson set to quit. Result.

That's a bigger boost to the SNP than Brexit if true. She worked wonders to put the Scottish Tories back on the map and they'll struggle to replace her with anyone half as effective I imagine.

I did feel her heart hasn't really been in it though since returning from maternity leave.

[Mr Grieves]

Davidson set to quit. Result.

Mundell 'quit'or proper quit quit?

[Smartie]

It would be glorious if all this nonsense saw her see the error in her ways and join the fight for independence.

I mean - if ever someone's personal work experiences showed exactly why Scotland needs to be independent, it is hers.

[Smartie]

That's a bigger boost to the SNP than Brexit if true. She worked wonders to put the Scottish Tories back on the map and they'll struggle to replace her with anyone half as effective I imagine.

I did feel her heart hasn't really been in it though since returning from maternity leave.

Nonsense about maternity leave.

She has returned to be repeatedly undermined and put in an impossible position by London overlords she totally disagrees with.

Good on her for leaving. I've welcomed someone putting a reasonable case for centre right politics forward, even if I totally disagree with her stance on independence.

[CloudSquall]

I imagine she has also realised that with recent events the last election was as good as it will ever get for her and she is leaving before the bloodbath that will occur at the next GE when the SNP will go to 45+ seats at least.

[cabbageandribs1875]

God, do you find anything else expect a SNP bad agenda?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk


i think he's trying to hook a few as per, quite poor at it though


"Glee" is quite funny though

[CloudSquall]

Would it finally be Murdo Fraser time?

He was the champion of a separate Conservative party in Scotland, ironically independent of the Conservative party in the rUK.

[ronaldo7]

i think he's trying to hook a few as per, quite poor at it though


"Glee" is quite funny though

He was trying to find something which rhymes with GB

[Moulin Yarns]

Would it finally be Murdo Fraser time?

He was the champion of a separate Conservative party in Scotland, ironically independent of the Conservative party in the rUK.


Please god, NOOOOOOOOOO

[Moulin Yarns]

Look - over there!

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

Damn, you got me. 😁

[Kato]

That's a bigger boost to the SNP than Brexit if true. She worked wonders to put the Scottish Tories back on the map and they'll struggle to replace her with anyone half as effective I imagine.

I did feel her heart hasn't really been in it though since returning from maternity leave.

Probably. Having a baby meant she found out she had a heart.

[The Modfather]

If you look back at the last few hours I have had people clambering for my opinion and those wanting me silenced.

Happy to move on, but if people still keep wanting to have a go I am happy to have a go back at them.

I engaged with you with you but you chose not to respond and give your thoughts. Preferring to get involved in the petty crap with the usual suspects.

No opinion on today’s events (if you’ve now had a chance to read the details)? Would, genuinely, be interesting to hear a Conservatives views on today. What the implications are for the Conservative government. Why it looks like Ruth is on the verge of quitting. Are there potentially any long lasting ramifications of Boris’ actions etc etc

[JeMeSouviens]

I also thought that was shaping up as the most likely outcome, but I think Johnson has shifted the direction of travel and if I was betting on it I'd say no deal is very much on the cards now. Whatever anyone's personal opinion of the guy he's night and day compared to May when it comes to commanding an audience. Even in his brief exchanges in Parliament as PM thus far he has absolutely wiped the floor with Corbyn & co and this has been reflected in recent electoral polling.

Some Brexit party has switched back to the Tories but I think that's more to do with Brexiters believing he's "one of their own".

No deal is probably the most likely form of Brexit now, but I think even with today's shenanigans he's still going to need to win a bigger majority to get it through. In a GE scenario I think Labour will have to include a firm commitment to a ref2 in their manifesto and I think if that's in place then, combined with the traditional FPTP big party squeeze, Lab will take a lot of support back off the Libs and Greens. So it'll be more of a straightforward Lab/Remain vs Tory/Leave contest. If Corbyn could be pushed aside I think that'd be a shoo in for L/R, but even with him around I optimistically think we'll at least get another hung parliament.

[James310]

Adult conversation is healthy.

Ironic, from the man that calls other posters 'names' and then runs away.


We are all board now, happy to stick to adult conversations if you do, but you and a few others can't help yourselves.

[ronaldo7]

Wonder who's going to be the next leader of the, Ruth Davidson party. 😂

[JeMeSouviens]

That's a bigger boost to the SNP than Brexit if true. She worked wonders to put the Scottish Tories back on the map and they'll struggle to replace her with anyone half as effective I imagine.

I did feel her heart hasn't really been in it though since returning from maternity leave.

I had her down to lead Better Together 2. Not sure who they'll go to now. Wee Jimmy Krankie (the real one) is an ardent Unionist, that would be worth it for lolz. :greengrin

[Fife-Hibee]

I also thought that was shaping up as the most likely outcome, but I think Johnson has shifted the direction of travel and if I was betting on it I'd say no deal is very much on the cards now. Whatever anyone's personal opinion of the guy he's night and day compared to May when it comes to commanding an audience. Even in his brief exchanges in Parliament as PM thus far he has absolutely wiped the floor with Corbyn & co and this has been reflected in recent electoral polling.

According to the polls. Boris Johnson has the hard brexit vote, while the other 2/3rds of the UK electorate are severely divided

Not exactly a master stroke.

Jo Swinson has done far more for the hard brexit cause than Boris Johnson.

[Moulin Yarns]

Ironic, from the man that calls other posters 'names' and then runs away.


We are all board now, happy to stick to adult conversations if you do, but you and a few others can't help yourselves.

You mean "oink, oink"

Now, answer the Modfather

[Fife-Hibee]

It would be glorious if all this nonsense saw her see the error in her ways and join the fight for independence.

I mean - if ever someone's personal work experiences showed exactly why Scotland needs to be independent, it is hers.

Would never happen. Far more likely that shes a fully signed up member of the Union Bears.

[Moulin Yarns]

I really hope this is the genuine Hugh grant twitter account.


You will not **** with my children’s future. You will not destroy the freedoms my grandfather fought two world wars to defend. **** off you over-promoted rubber bath toy. Britain is revolted by you and you little gang of masturbatory prefects.

[lord bunberry]

Davidson set to quit. Result.
We’ve heard that before.

[James310]

You mean "oink, oink"

Now, answer the Modfather

Now, just go away and stop pestering me.

[Moulin Yarns]

That's a bit much, calling him a pig.

Oink oink.

Remember this?

[cabbageandribs1875]

Wonder who's going to be the next leader of the, Ruth Davidson party. 😂



what's fluffy "i'm going to quit this time, i really really mean it" doing nowadays ?

[xyz23jc]

We’ve heard that before.


Please God... Let it be so! ...I'll never ask you for another thing again! Ba' heidit narcissist! :greengrin

PS. Can't wait to use the term Poundshop Ruth Davidson for her successor! :faf:

[allmodcons]

I engaged with you with you but you chose not to respond and give your thoughts. Preferring to get involved in the petty crap with the usual suspects.

No opinion on today’s events (if you’ve now had a chance to read the details)? Would, genuinely, be interesting to hear a Conservatives views on today. What the implications are for the Conservative government. Why it looks like Ruth is on the verge of quitting. Are there potentially any long lasting ramifications of Boris’ actions etc etc

I doubt you'll get any answers from J310. He's good at asking questions but almost always avoids answering them.

I actually think he may have blocked me but I could be wrong?

PS - IMO Boris must be a big TSC fan 'same old wealth in the same old hands...................................

[James310]

I engaged with you with you but you chose not to respond and give your thoughts. Preferring to get involved in the petty crap with the usual suspects.

No opinion on today’s events (if you’ve now had a chance to read the details)? Would, genuinely, be interesting to hear a Conservatives views on today. What the implications are for the Conservative government. Why it looks like Ruth is on the verge of quitting. Are there potentially any long lasting ramifications of Boris’ actions etc etc

I don't mind you because you reply and ask questions in an adult way, yes I get involved with the petty crap with the usual suspects as I will stand up for myself. I will continue to do that, but I would much rather not get involved in all that nonsense.

You deserve a reply.

I am totally against what seems to be playing out, it's completely undemocratic. I would be in favour of a no confidence vote and run the risk of what that brings, assuming the government is defeated. If that's a Labour and SNP coalition then so be it. That's the gamble Boris and his chums have decided to take.

As for Ruth Davidson then I am not surprised she is likely to quit. She has been against no deal and against Boris, today was probably the final straw. I know myself when you have children your priorities change and she will be no different, if she feels that way then I think that's a reasonable position to take. I don't get all the hate towards her though.

I am happy to engage with those that want to in an adult way, or we can keep the petty crap going as well. Funny I see another post saying I don't answer questions, would love that poster to point out a handful I have missed? Serious ones I mean.

[James310]

I doubt you'll get any answers from J310. He's good at asking questions but almost always avoids answering them.

I actually think he may have blocked me but I could be wrong?

PS - IMO Boris must be a big TSC fan 'same old wealth in the same old hands...................................

Feel free to provide a list and I will happily answer them, if they are serious. Has to be ones I have missed through, no making them up.

[G B Young]

According to the polls. Boris Johnson has the hard brexit vote, while the other 2/3rds of the UK electorate are severely divided

Not exactly a master stroke.

Jo Swinson has done far more for the hard brexit cause than Boris Johnson.

No, not a masterstroke. More of a blunt instrument, but tactically significant nonetheless. If we do end up with a No Deal exit and Farage makes good on his pledge to stand down the Brexit Party in favour of backing Johnson in any future election then the Tories would look odds-on to secure a very workable majority - given, as you say, that the rest of electorate are strewn in all directions.

[Jack Hackett]

I really hope this is the genuine Hugh grant twitter account.


You will not **** with my children’s future. You will not destroy the freedoms my grandfather fought two world wars to defend. **** off you over-promoted rubber bath toy. Britain is revolted by you and you little gang of masturbatory prefects.

It is

https://metro.co.uk/2019/08/28/hugh-grant-brands-boris-johnson-promoted-rubber-bath-toy-pens-scathing-twitter-message-10647161/


:top marks:top marks:top marks

[allmodcons]

Feel free to provide a list and I will happily answer them, if they are serious. Has to be ones I have missed through, no making them up.

A customary response of yours is to say I'm not the one looking to support change therefore it's not up to me to provide answers. This when you constantly want certainties from those who have a different political persuasion to you.

[James310]

A customary response of yours is to say I'm not the one looking to support change therefore it's not up to me to provide answers. This when you constantly want certainties from those who have a different political persuasion to you.

Well, you will have a big list then that you can share? Come on, back up what you say? Waiting.

[Moulin Yarns]

Dress it up and stick some make up on it if it makes you feel better. It's a fact that the Ken Clarke vote failed by 3 votes and if the SNP had voted for it then it would have been the only alternative solution to carry a parliamentary majority. What would have happened next is an opinion.

Looking back I think a number of MPs and party leaders might be thinking if only we had voted for X, Y or Z then just maybe we would not have the news we have a this morning.

Did you miss my reply?

35 snp abstained, 40 tories abstained and 236 tories voted it down.

How is that dressing it up?

[James310]

Did you miss my reply?

35 snp abstained, 40 tories abstained and 236 tories voted it down.

How is that dressing it up?

If you are willing to cut out the crap and the stupid jokes I am happy to engage.

It's dressing it up as what I say remains a fact. If the SNP had voted for it then it would have received a parliamentary majority, the only one to do so. Sturgeon said at the time that stopping Brexit was her 'top priority' but look how that has worked out for her. What would have happened next is up for debate.

Do you agree with Fife that actually the SNP wanted a no deal Brexit all along?

[Mr Grieves]

Today, heard quite a few colleagues who don't usually talk politics discussing the prorogue and they are raging. Has Johnson underestimated how folk will react to this?

[Hibbyradge]

I've just read on Twitter that Corbyn is/has written to the Queen to ask her to revoke the permission to suspend Parliament.

Is that true?

[Callum_62]

One things for sure - twitter is full of raving loons

I've said it a few times but there's a small part of me that wants it to be no deal and for it to be as bad as all the experts says, just to see what the reaction is

If the govts own analysis is saying no deal is up to 4 times worse than the GFC, then it will be carnage and a dereliction of duty to carry that out

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[The Modfather]

I don't mind you because you reply and ask questions in an adult way, yes I get involved with the petty crap with the usual suspects as I will stand up for myself. I will continue to do that, but I would much rather not get involved in all that nonsense.

You deserve a reply.

I am totally against what seems to be playing out, it's completely undemocratic. I would be in favour of a no confidence vote and run the risk of what that brings, assuming the government is defeated. If that's a Labour and SNP coalition then so be it. That's the gamble Boris and his chums have decided to take.

As for Ruth Davidson then I am not surprised she is likely to quit. She has been against no deal and against Boris, today was probably the final straw. I know myself when you have children your priorities change and she will be no different, if she feels that way then I think that's a reasonable position to take. I don't get all the hate towards her though.

I am happy to engage with those that want to in an adult way, or we can keep the petty crap going as well. Funny I see another post saying I don't answer questions, would love that poster to point out a handful I have missed? Serious ones I mean.

A fair reply, I agree with much of it. It would be easy to simply give the Tories a much deserved kicking (and it is very tempting :greengrin ) but this to me is just another example (albeit at the extreme end of the scale) of folk from the same handful of schools & universities (for whatever party) becoming more and more brazen, and worst of all, probably get away with it in the end.

[Jack]

I've just read on Twitter that Corbyn is/has written to the Queen to ask her to revoke the permission to suspend Parliament.

Is that true?

I thought I heard it was the libdems.

[JeMeSouviens]

I thought I heard it was the libdems.

Both.

[allmodcons]

Well, you will have a big list then that you can share? Come on, back up what you say? Waiting.

I'll get back to you 310. I just haven't got the time tonight. My life doesn't revolve around the HG.

[James310]

A fair reply, I agree with much of it. It would be easy to simply give the Tories a much deserved kicking (and it is very tempting :greengrin ) but this to me is just another example (albeit at the extreme end of the scale) of folk from the same handful of schools & universities (for whatever party) becoming more and more brazen, and worst of all, probably get away with it in the end.

I am not sure he will get away with it, I think he may have overplayed his hand on this occasion. Still more twists and turns to come.

There is still time to legislate against a no deal, if anything it will have focussed the minds of those who want to carry it out.

[James310]

I'll get back to you 310. I just haven't got the time tonight. My life doesn't revolve around the HG.

Nor mine, but you seemed to be keeping tabs. Was it maybe the question from Modfather that I answered, or maybe from Moulin that I answered, or maybe it was the question on Ireland a few weeks back, that I also answered.

If you just want to admit it you have it wrong then that's fine and we can forget it, I mean I answered the very question you said I would never answer within a few hours.

If you want to trawl through weeks and months of posts feel free, if you find any let me know, as I am happy to answer them.

[Callum_62]

if anything it will have focussed the minds of those who want to carry it out.

I've seen that sentence said quite a few times these past 18 months or so!

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[cabbageandribs1875]

legal challenge against bojo's prorogation of parliament led by joanna cherry QC and 70 others starts today in a Scottish court

[mjhibby]

I am not sure he will get away with it, I think he may have overplayed his hand on this occasion. Still more twists and turns to come.

There is still time to legislate against a no deal, if anything it will have focussed the minds of those who want to carry it out.

While i agree he has overplayed his hand if parliament prevents a no deal then that will play to the little eglanders about stopping the will of the people. I fear either we will leave with no deal or that clown will be in charge either of which will be horrible for the man in the street..Just a horrible situation we are in at the moment.

[Moulin Yarns]

If you are willing to cut out the crap and the stupid jokes I am happy to engage.

It's dressing it up as what I say remains a fact. If the SNP had voted for it then it would have received a parliamentary majority, the only one to do so. Sturgeon said at the time that stopping Brexit was her 'top priority' but look how that has worked out for her. What would have happened next is up for debate.

Do you agree with Fife that actually the SNP wanted a no deal Brexit all along?

No I don't. There is no evidence to suggest the SNP want a no deal brexit, on the contrary there is lots of evidence that the SNP have been consistent in fighting Brexit, deal or no deal.


The Scottish Parliament voted to reject the Prime Minister’s proposed deal and to call for a better alternative to both the ‘deal’ and no-deal. SNP, Labour, Green and Liberal Democrat MSPs all supported the motion.

Why would Joanne Cherry and Alyn Smith be 2 of the people that took the steps of going to the courts to get a ruling on revoking Article 50?

The SNP, Greens and LibDems have been consistent in their opposition to Brexit in any form, and in particular a no deal brexit.

As for the original point you make, please explain why the abstention of 35 MPs from one party is more important than the abstention of 40 MPs from another? The MP who brought the motion is a Tory, but 40 of his party abstained, that is an indisputable fact, as is the fact that 236 of his own party voted against his motion. So there you have 276 Tories did not support one of their own party, yet you somehow manage to blame the SNP for it failing. Beyond belief.

[JeMeSouviens]

I mean Gawd luv 'im and all that but the idea that Fife Hibee represents mainstream SNP thinking is one of the best megalolz we've had on here. :faf:

[Moulin Yarns]

Yesterday, this thread was quite a good read, until about 16:00. It was after that that a lot of name calling and petty point scoring started.

I've been out this morning so hopefully it won't deteriorate in the same way now I'm back :wink:

[Peevemor]

Twitter updates from the Court of Session

https://twitter.com/andrewpicken1

[CloudSquall]

I mean Gawd luv 'im and all that but the idea that Fife Hibee represents mainstream SNP thinking is one of the best megalolz we've had on here. :faf:

He's head of the line for the Wings Party :greengrin

[heretoday]

The Labs and Libs should have backed May's deal. Then we wouldn't be facing no deal.

[lapsedhibee]

The Labs and Libs should have backed May's deal. Then we wouldn't be facing no deal.

Europe, Labs, Libs, everyone else's
responsibility.

[Moulin Yarns]

The Labs and Libs should have backed May's deal. Then we wouldn't be facing no deal.

Or the tories could have backed the deal. Maybe they were waiting for the snp to back the deal?

[lord bunberry]

I’m going to say it as I want to be honest, I hope we leave without a deal. It will undoubtedly lead to Scottish independence and that’s what I think is the best option for Scotland right now. I voted to remain and even when leave won I never thought for a second we’d be in this position. It’s time to pull up the drawbridge and let England get on with whatever it wants to do. It’s time we looked after ourselves and put the question back to the Scottish people. It’s beyond my comprehension as to why anyone would look at the current situation and think we’d not be better by leaving it behind. I know I’m being selfish, but I want my daughter to grow up in a country that has the same prospects and rights that I had. I’m a middle aged man that has made his choices in life for good or bad, my daughter is a child that has all that ahead of her. I might be being a bit dramatic, but my daughter is my life and the thought of her growing up in a country that appears to be moving ever further to the right saddens me.

[Smartie]

I’m going to say it as I want to be honest, I hope we leave without a deal. It will undoubtedly lead to Scottish independence and that’s what I think is the best option for Scotland right now. I voted to remain and even when leave won I never thought for a second we’d be in this position. It’s time to pull up the drawbridge and let England get on with whatever it wants to do. It’s time we looked after ourselves and put the question back to the Scottish people. It’s beyond my comprehension as to why anyone would look at the current situation and think we’d not be better by leaving it behind. I know I’m being selfish, but I want my daughter to grow up in a country that has the same prospects and rights that I had. I’m a middle aged man that has made his choices in life for good or bad, my daughter is a child that has all that ahead of her. I might be being a bit dramatic, but my daughter is my life and the thought of her growing up in a country that appears to be moving ever further to the right saddens me.

Every single word of this echoes my own position.

[weecounty hibby]

I’m going to say it as I want to be honest, I hope we leave without a deal. It will undoubtedly lead to Scottish independence and that’s what I think is the best option for Scotland right now. I voted to remain and even when leave won I never thought for a second we’d be in this position. It’s time to pull up the drawbridge and let England get on with whatever it wants to do. It’s time we looked after ourselves and put the question back to the Scottish people. It’s beyond my comprehension as to why anyone would look at the current situation and think we’d not be better by leaving it behind. I know I’m being selfish, but I want my daughter to grow up in a country that has the same prospects and rights that I had. I’m a middle aged man that has made his choices in life for good or bad, my daughter is a child that has all that ahead of her. I might be being a bit dramatic, but my daughter is my life and the thought of her growing up in a country that appears to be moving ever further to the right saddens me.

👍👍👍👍👍