Brexit - What Now.

[cabbageandribs1875]

coming to your favourite supermarkets soon......:agree:

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna1097676?__twitter_impression=true&fbclid=IwAR1Vc74VzTvrtnHTrz38oL1no9rGQm6X4FM5aRQFb 07parFnHXeUbZQAwvc

ALBERT LEA, Minnesota — America's food inspectors are warning that "unsafe" pork is likely making it to consumers under a change in rules for meat inspection.
"If this continues across the nation, when you open your package of meat, what you're gonna get for a pathogen is gonna be a mystery," Mauer said.
Potential defects, according to Mauer, include feces, sex organs, toenails, bladders and unwanted hair.


sure sounds delicious :rolleyes:

[Moulin Yarns]

We're on our way back.



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-50917624

[Moulin Yarns]

I see Johnson has his priority right.


https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/tim-walker-mandrake-brexit-dream-factory-open-for-business-1-6457671

[WeeRussell]

Some Tory, Andrew Bridgen, has nominated Nigel Farage for a knighthood in the New Year Honours list. This is a bit of a rammy between him and Dr Shola Mos-Shogbamimu

(https://twitter.com/i/bookmarks)

I can't for the life of me imagine a Tory, pals with Farage, being at odds with someone with that name.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p960x960/82213145_2483356375265165_9176964408415354880_o.jp g?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQlHwRwH90IO26vVxGu8KjO2dblDxEJLoRt8Bs_Mwa4 e5dbvazdsy_1PpRV-P_0NXF0&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_tp=1002&oh=65db2e6d0c8575c28503ec63891138e1&oe=5E91EC37


oh my.........can't wait till Boris's Bongs Bang on Big Ben..on the 31RD :hilarious

[cabbageandribs1875]

no point taking it down when we will be joining again soon enough...hopefully





https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/82916162_2700258660009756_2661262406340050944_n.jp g?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQknxD9dpXU47UDslLlJ_pYqPMjIobJQKBCTRceinSC fV12ccFqnRPp_P47FZspGr3c&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=a27f5c6ae35087d3cf55135a8a145b7d&oe=5E96D09C

[lapsedhibee]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/p960x960/82213145_2483356375265165_9176964408415354880_o.jp g?_nc_cat=107&_nc_oc=AQlHwRwH90IO26vVxGu8KjO2dblDxEJLoRt8Bs_Mwa4 e5dbvazdsy_1PpRV-P_0NXF0&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_tp=1002&oh=65db2e6d0c8575c28503ec63891138e1&oe=5E91EC37


That badge a real thing, or Remainer photoshopaganda? :dunno:

[Moulin Yarns]

That badge a real thing, or Remainer photoshopaganda? :dunno:

I saw it a few days ago and it looks real.

[Future17]

no point taking it down when we will be joining again soon enough...hopefully





https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/82916162_2700258660009756_2661262406340050944_n.jp g?_nc_cat=111&_nc_oc=AQknxD9dpXU47UDslLlJ_pYqPMjIobJQKBCTRceinSC fV12ccFqnRPp_P47FZspGr3c&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=a27f5c6ae35087d3cf55135a8a145b7d&oe=5E96D09C

The decision to take it down was made by the Parliament's corporate management body, rather than via a vote of Members.

Seems like the correct decision to me, irrespective of my views on Brexit.

[RyeSloan]

The decision to take it down was made by the Parliament's corporate management body, rather than via a vote of Members.

Seems like the correct decision to me, irrespective of my views on Brexit.

Yeees! A flag debate! It’s been ages since we had one of them [emoji2957]

[JeMeSouviens]

Yeees! A flag debate! It’s been ages since we had one of them [emoji2957]

Holyrood should fly a ****** big HARP! :greengrin

[CloudSquall]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-51157933

"" Asked how differing regulations between the UK and EU may impact industries such as automotive and pharmaceuticals, he (Jarid) said: "We're also talking about companies that have known since 2016 that we are leaving the EU.

Admittedly, they didn't know the exact terms." ""


What a belter, the Chancellor is now blaming industries for not being prepared for new regulations but admits they had no idea what the terms of Brexit were going to be.

[Mr Grieves]

The Northern Ireland assembly have joined the Scottish Parliament in rejecting Johnson's withdrawal agreement. The Welsh assembly look likely to reject it in a vote tomorrow. Westminster will go ahead with it anyway, union of equals etc.

[lapsedhibee]

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-51157933

"" Asked how differing regulations between the UK and EU may impact industries such as automotive and pharmaceuticals, he (Jarid) said: "We're also talking about companies that have known since 2016 that we are leaving the EU.

Admittedly, they didn't know the exact terms." ""


What a belter, the Chancellor is now blaming industries for not being prepared for new regulations but admits they had no idea what the terms of Brexit were going to be.

Brexiters not taking responsibility for the consequences of Brexit? Now there's a surprise.

[Slavers]

INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND PROJECTIONS: 'UK economy will grow faster than the eurozone in the first two years after Brexit'.Project fear slowly vanishing...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-economy-will-grow-faster-than-eurozone-rivals-says-imf-k2h3vbdjm

[Hibbyradge]

INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND PROJECTIONS: 'UK economy will grow faster than the eurozone in the first two years after Brexit'.Project fear slowly vanishing...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-economy-will-grow-faster-than-eurozone-rivals-says-imf-k2h3vbdjm

That's certainly an unexpectedly positive forecast.

It does say this, however;

"Assuming there is an orderly Brexit at the end of the month, and a gradual transition to a new relationship with the bloc ... "

[Slavers]

That's certainly an unexpectedly positive forecast.

It does say this, however;

"Assuming there is an orderly Brexit at the end of the month, and a gradual transition to a new relationship with the bloc ... "

It's not unexpected though! Britain will thrive being Independent.

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/01/20/global-chief-executives-back-post-brexit-britain-driver-growth/

Already 1000's of EU Financial Institutions are opening offices in the UK post Brexit.

https://www.cityam.com/over-1000-eu-financial-firms-planning-to-open-uk-offices-after-brexit/.

[lapsedhibee]

INTERNATIONAL MONETARY FUND PROJECTIONS: 'UK economy will grow faster than the eurozone in the first two years after Brexit'.Project fear slowly vanishing...

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/british-economy-will-grow-faster-than-eurozone-rivals-says-imf-k2h3vbdjm

In the 2 years before the 2016 referendum, UK growth was 3.1% and 2.3%. So achieving 1.4% and 1.5% in the 2 years after Brexit wouldn't be all that stunning.

[lapsedhibee]

Already 1000's of EU Financial Institutions are opening offices in the UK post Brexit.

https://www.cityam.com/over-1000-eu-financial-firms-planning-to-open-uk-offices-after-brexit/.

My copy of that link says "over 1000" and it's clear that the figure must be somewhere between 1000 and 1441. Why do you call that "thousands"?

It's also clear from the article that there's many hundreds of UK firms having to open offices in the EU for the same reasons that EU firms are having to open offices in the UK. How is this Sunny Uplands? :dunno:

[Slavers]

My copy of that link says "over 1000" and it's clear that the figure must be somewhere between 1000 and 1441. Why do you call that "thousands"?

It's also clear from the article that there's many hundreds of UK firms having to open offices in the EU for the same reasons that EU firms are having to open offices in the UK. How is this Sunny Uplands? :dunno:

It's show that despite all the scaremongering that the UK post brexit is attracting investment.

The growth of UK tech firms is faster than any other country in the world.

Of course it's sunny uplands it's all positive news. Why not celebrate it after all the negative rubbish that has been posted relentlessly by remoaners.

[Cataplana]

It's show that despite all the scaremongering that the UK post brexit is attracting investment.

The growth of UK tech firms is faster than any other country in the world.

Of course it's sunny uplands it's all positive news. Why not celebrate it after all the negative rubbish that has been posted relentlessly by remoaners.

I will believe money is coming into the country, when the value of the pound goes up.

[lapsedhibee]

It's show that despite all the scaremongering that the UK post brexit is attracting investment.

The growth of UK tech firms is faster than any other country in the world.

Of course it's sunny uplands it's all positive news. Why not celebrate it after all the negative rubbish that has been posted relentlessly by remoaners.

It's very clear, if you read the article that you linked, that the main reason for this office-opening activity is to circumvent Brexit-induced restrictions. The EU firms are "planning to open offices in post-Brexit Britain so they can continue to serve UK clients". That's not 'attracting investment'.

[Slavers]

It's very clear, if you read the article that you linked, that the main reason for this office-opening activity is to circumvent Brexit-induced restrictions. The EU firms are "planning to open offices in post-Brexit Britain so they can continue to serve UK clients". That's not 'attracting investment'.

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiSGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmNpdHlhbS5jb20vY2hpZWYtZXhlY3 V0aXZlcy1zYXktdWstaXMtdG9wLWludmVzdG1lbnQtdGFyZ2V0 L9IBTGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmNpdHlhbS5jb20vY2hpZWYtZXhlY3 V0aXZlcy1zYXktdWstaXMtdG9wLWludmVzdG1lbnQtdGFyZ2V0 L2FtcC8?hl=en-GB&gl=GB&ceid=GB%3Aen

[StevieC]

It's show that despite all the scaremongering that the UK post brexit is attracting investment.

I don’t think it does. The way I read it is that if EU companies want to continue to trade they have to apply for a UK licence. Seems to be a sensible application, and by no means guarantees new offices or new staff. What I’d be asking is how many companies have not applied for a licence? If there are 3,000 companies, and less than half have applied for a UK licence, you could legitimately view that situation as “UK loses thousands”?

[Hibrandenburg]

I don’t think it does. The way I read it is that if EU companies want to continue to trade they have to apply for a UK licence. Seems to be a sensible application, and by no means guarantees new offices or new staff. What I’d be asking is how many companies have not applied for a licence? If there are 3,000 companies, and less than half have applied for a UK licence, you could legitimately view that situation as “UK loses thousands”?

My company is a good example of the consequences of Brexit. They've had to move half their assets to the EU that were previously UK based. With the assets have gone jobs and UK tax revenue. There of course will be reciprocal moves in assets from the EU to UK locations in other companies but no where near as much as in the other direction. Brexit will take a while to show on the books and there will be an initial spike in trade whilst companies attempt to secure short term access to products they need, but in the long run they will seek cheaper and less bureaucratic means of sourcing that what they need. The spike we're seeing now is not the start of a new era of UK prosperity but the dying throes of an old one.

[lapsedhibee]

https://news.google.com/articles/CBMiSGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmNpdHlhbS5jb20vY2hpZWYtZXhlY3 V0aXZlcy1zYXktdWstaXMtdG9wLWludmVzdG1lbnQtdGFyZ2V0 L9IBTGh0dHBzOi8vd3d3LmNpdHlhbS5jb20vY2hpZWYtZXhlY3 V0aXZlcy1zYXktdWstaXMtdG9wLWludmVzdG1lbnQtdGFyZ2V0 L2FtcC8?hl=en-GB&gl=GB&ceid=GB%3Aen

Oh well if Andrea Leadsom's confident that's me convinced. :agree:

[Just Alf]

This feels a bit like Conservative arithmetic.

A UK company shuts an office (or part thereof) and opens it in the EU.

A EU company shuts an office (or part thereof) and opens it in the UK.

= 1 new office

:greengrin

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[RyeSloan]

My company is a good example of the consequences of Brexit. They've had to move half their assets to the EU that were previously UK based. With the assets have gone jobs and UK tax revenue. There of course will be reciprocal moves in assets from the EU to UK locations in other companies but no where near as much as in the other direction. Brexit will take a while to show on the books and there will be an initial spike in trade whilst companies attempt to secure short term access to products they need, but in the long run they will seek cheaper and less bureaucratic means of sourcing that what they need. The spike we're seeing now is not the start of a new era of UK prosperity but the dying throes of an old one.

Yet here is evidence of at least one part of the economy doing rather well and far from dying throes.

https://technation.io/news/2019-a-record-year-for-uk-tech/

And today we see even higher employment figures and unemployment staying at near 40 year lows. And no before someone says it it’s not down to zero hour contracts and indeed full time employment saw a big boost.

Wage figures also holding steady and comfortably in front of inflation.

And that’s with ‘Brexit uncertainty’.

Of course it remains to be seen what happens when Brexit Mk1 arrives and then the fabled and oft misunderstood trade agreement.

[Hibrandenburg]

Decent Guardian article.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jan/26/independence-day-will-expose-brexit-as-ruse-to-free-an-imaginary-nation

[lapsedhibee]

Decent Guardian article.

:agree: F O'T has been the best of Brexit commentators over the past few years.

[Hibrandenburg]

:agree: F O'T has been the best of Brexit commentators over the past few years.

:agree: and the Irish Times has provided a decent objective view from the outside looking in.

[JeMeSouviens]

I wonder how the Scots Tories will react when the inevitable fishing sell out happens?

[Bristolhibby]

This is a brilliant (and interestingly written) article.

Very good read outlining what needs to be done and when.

Enjoy.

https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2020/01/23/brexit-2020-everything-you-need-to-know-about-johnson-s-trad

[RyeSloan]

I wonder how the Scots Tories will react when the inevitable fishing sell out happens?

With fury I’d imagine but I’m not sure where you are getting any indication that this will happen.

Previously Gove in particular has been very clear that access to UK waters would be separate to any trade discussions (they are after all two different things). Has there been something said or highlighted that indicates that this position has changed and the ‘inevitable sell out’ is on its way?

[JeMeSouviens]

With fury I’d imagine but I’m not sure where you are getting any indication that this will happen.

Previously Gove in particular has been very clear that access to UK waters would be separate to any trade discussions (they are after all two different things). Has there been something said or highlighted that indicates that this position has changed and the ‘inevitable sell out’ is on its way?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/jan/27/brexit-labour-boris-johnson-must-let-eu-boats-continue-to-fish-in-its-waters-if-it-wants-trade-deal-covering-banking-irish-pm-implies-live-news?page=with:block-5e2ec6e28f08e97ed212b178#block-5e2ec6e28f08e97ed212b178

[RyeSloan]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2020/jan/27/brexit-labour-boris-johnson-must-let-eu-boats-continue-to-fish-in-its-waters-if-it-wants-trade-deal-covering-banking-irish-pm-implies-live-news?page=with:block-5e2ec6e28f08e97ed212b178#block-5e2ec6e28f08e97ed212b178

I’m obv. being slow but where does that say that there is an inevitable sell out on the way?

[JeMeSouviens]

I’m obv. being slow but where does that say that there is an inevitable sell out on the way?

The "inevitable" bit is my opinion, feel free to disagree. :wink: It's coming though.

[RyeSloan]

The "inevitable" bit is my opinion, feel free to disagree. :wink: It's coming though.

OK fair enough. You may well be right but I can’t see anything in your link that says anything different from what has been uttered previously so I’m a bit confused as to what prompted your post in the first place.

Time will tell I suppose but I very much doubt that the UK will give up access in the same way it has previously through the CFP. That of course doesn’t mean the UK fishermen will be entirely happy at the final outcome but hey what’s new there [emoji2957]

[lapsedhibee]

I wonder how the Scots Tories will react when the inevitable fishing sell out happens?

"Even though Brexit Is Done and we're completely out of the EU their corrupt unelected undemocratic bureaucrats are still trying to bully us. We are England and we won't stand for it."

[weecounty hibby]

The navy doesn't have enough surface vessels to patrol the fishing grounds. Open season with no protection and no EU quotas to be adhered to

[Bristolhibby]

OK fair enough. You may well be right but I can’t see anything in your link that says anything different from what has been uttered previously so I’m a bit confused as to what prompted your post in the first place.

Time will tell I suppose but I very much doubt that the UK will give up access in the same way it has previously through the CFP. That of course doesn’t mean the UK fishermen will be entirely happy at the final outcome but hey what’s new there [emoji2957]

Taken from the article I linked.

“Fishing? Really? Surely that's a tiny dot in the economy. And given that they've given up services you wouldn't expect them to get too het up about it.

True. But it matters to the communities who do it and it has a political importance that far exceeds its economic impact. Britain also has a watertight legal case for its demand. Basically, sovereign coastal states have a 200 mile limit out to sea in which they can fish, under the UN Law of the Sea Convention.

Cool name for an international convention.

Isn't it. The whole thing is very Aquaman.

I always preferred Namor.

Everyone sensible does. He has those little wings on his ankles which let him fly. That is so preposterous and wonderful at the same time. Imagine what it looks like to see him fly with the little wing thingies on his ankles.

You were talking about fisheries policy.

Ah yes. So the British position is simple. We are now going to be a sovereign coastal state. We want our 200 mile limit. We'll decide what goes on there. The EU position is very different. It wants everything to stay the same as it is right now.

And what is the status quo for fishing exactly?

Basically anything outside of 12 miles from a member state is a common area. The stocks of individual fish species are then divided up between countries in set quotas to prevent overfishing. So Britain might have a 15% share of a particular stock, for instance. Those quotas are set. They do not change. But each year scientists provide advice on the total allowable catch. If it was 100,000 tonnes, Britain would get 15,000 tonnes that year. And that's how they divide up the stock.

So they want that to stick.

Yeah. But Britain, on the other hand, will probably want something like what Norway has. Each year, in the autumn, Norway gets together with the Europeans and sorts out some annual fish arrangements. It's fraught and tense, but it has a lot of power in the talks. They haggle over how much of a quota it gets on certain stocks. And unlike in the EU, that quota can change. Sometimes, if no agreement can be reached, Norway just says you can't fish in their waters at all. Britain would love to operate just like that.

Why can't it? You said the law is on the UK side.

It is, but the leverage isn't.

Recurring theme.

Quite. We can take control of our waters and block anyone fishing within 200 miles of them if we want, but there's a problem: we don't eat our own fish. Eighty per cent of what we catch goes to the EU. The fish we actually eat - good old British fish and chips - mostly comes from Norway and Iceland.

OK, but so what?

So the European threat is simple. If we don't do what they want they'll put tariffs on fish. That would absolutely hammer our fishing industry. The tariffs are high in this area and it would apply on almost everything it sells.

OK so what about some sort of compromise? Maybe the UK could stay in the EU system but they agree to rejig the quotas a bit to placate us.

Tempting, but the trouble is that would involve opening up the whole quota debate across the EU again. It would be like opening Pandora's Fish Box. They won't do that.

So we're faced with two sides with really quite distant goals in a highly emotional area of trade.

Yep. Which is why it's instructive to look at how they plan to talk about this. Britain wants to talk about fish separately to everything else. But the Europeans aren't having any of that. They want to bring the issue into the general trade discussion. And that'll be the attitude throughout - the British trying to silo off individual topics so they can't be used as leverage against each other and the Europeans making it more comprehensive.”

J

[lapsedhibee]

This is a brilliant (and interestingly written) article.

Very good read outlining what needs to be done and when.

Enjoy.

https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2020/01/23/brexit-2020-everything-you-need-to-know-about-johnson-s-trad

Very good :agree:

[grunt]

This is a brilliant (and interestingly written) article.

Very good read outlining what needs to be done and when.

Enjoy.

https://www.politics.co.uk/blogs/2020/01/23/brexit-2020-everything-you-need-to-know-about-johnson-s-trad
That was very interesting and surprisingly easy to read. We are doomed.

[JeMeSouviens]

That was very interesting and surprisingly easy to read. We are doomed.

Ach away, you just have to believe! (I believe we're ****ed, will that do?)

[Moulin Yarns]

With fury I’d imagine but I’m not sure where you are getting any indication that this will happen.

Previously Gove in particular has been very clear that access to UK waters would be separate to any trade discussions (they are after all two different things). Has there been something said or highlighted that indicates that this position has changed and the ‘inevitable sell out’ is on its way?


So 75% of fish caught in UK water is exported to Europe. But fishing won't be part of the trade negotiations?

https://mobile-reuters-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1PP2AF?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15801638656256&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Farticle%2 ***-britain-eu-fishing-idUSKCN1PP2AF

[RyeSloan]

So 75% of fish caught in UK water is exported to Europe. But fishing won't be part of the trade negotiations?

https://mobile-reuters-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKCN1PP2AF?amp_js_v=a2&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQCKAE%3D#aoh=15801638656256&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.reuters.com%2Farticle%2 ***-britain-eu-fishing-idUSKCN1PP2AF

A pedant would point out that the article suggests 75% of 75% goes to the EU [emoji2957]

As to your question, I have no idea as I suppose it depends on how wide the parameters are for the trade deal are. I’m sure though that through some sort of agreement / process the level of access for the EU fishing fleet will be agreed, I’m not aware of anyone saying anything otherwise.

[lapsedhibee]

Debate rages about the new 50p coin. In particular the merits or otherwise of the Oxford comma which doesn't come with it.

"Superglue the Brexit 50p to the pavement outside any Wetherspoons..." :hmmm:

[JeMeSouviens]

A pedant would point out that the article suggests 75% of 75% goes to the EU [emoji2957]

As to your question, I have no idea as I suppose it depends on how wide the parameters are for the trade deal are. I’m sure though that through some sort of agreement / process the level of access for the EU fishing fleet will be agreed, I’m not aware of anyone saying anything otherwise.

Fishing is one of the few areas where the UK actually has a bit of leverage and in fact it makes total sense to use a bargaining chip that is a tiny blip on the UK economy in order to get a better deal for the crucial cash generating financial services industry.

However, politically in Scotland, it'll be a Tory sell out of a totemic industry to help London and another wee nail in the Union's coffin. Oh dear, what a shame, never mind. :wink:

[Mr Grieves]

https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1222206827376652288?s=20

Cringe

[Moulin Yarns]

https://twitter.com/Conservatives/status/1222206827376652288?s=20

Cringe

After one wash all the colours come out and you then have a white flag.

[Betty Boop]

Scenes at the European Parliament, the deals been ratified . MEPs in tears, we're oot.

[lapsedhibee]

Scenes at the European Parliament, the deals been ratified . MEPs in tears, we're oot.

So have we got our country back now, already, two days ahead of schedule, or do we still have to wait till Friday for that? :confused:

[Callum_62]

So have we got our country back now, already, two days ahead of schedule, or do we still have to wait till Friday for that? :confused:The only way we get our country back is via independence

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[1875godsgift]

The only way we get our country back is via independence

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

:agree:

[Bostonhibby]

So have we got our country back now, already, two days ahead of schedule, or do we still have to wait till Friday for that? :confused:I think Friday's headlines will be all about which hospital gets the £350m first, maybe a wee photo opportunity with Boris and his fall guy Hancock handing over the cheque.

They probably have the list of which hospital gets the same money the week after, and so on.

They'll need to share which hospital gets it's £350m and when so they can start planning all the big improvements they can make.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

Led by donkeys latest


A message to Europe, this morning on the White Cliffs of Dover. Sound on. https://t.co/E3VY8BaGjK

[Hibbyradge]

Led by donkeys latest


A message to Europe, this morning on the White Cliffs of Dover. Sound on. https://t.co/E3VY8BaGjK

:boo hoo:

[Slavers]

Happy Brexit Day everyone!!!

The United Kingdom will prove all the remoaners wrong and will flourish continuingto grow its diverse ecomomy.

The EU is a failed project and we are leaving at the right time. Now the UK has left the EU the EU can focus on trying to improve on its rampant levels of unemployment throughout the bloc and stagnant growth of its economy.

The UK will continue to grow its diverse ecomomy that is now outperforming the EU and is forecast to continue to do so.

Celebrate and enjoy your day today.

[Jones28]

Happy Brexit Day everyone!!!

The United Kingdom will prove all the remoaners wrong and will flourish continuingto grow its diverse ecomomy.

The EU is a failed project and we are leaving at the right time. Now the UK has left the EU the EU can focus on trying to improve on its rampant levels of unemployment throughout the bloc and stagnant growth of its economy.

The UK will continue to grow its diverse ecomomy that is now outperforming the EU and is forecast to continue to do so.

Celebrate and enjoy your day today.

Slavers by name...

[Slavers]

Slavers by name...

Today is not a day for being bitter! All the best to you for the future

[Moulin Yarns]

Happy Brexit Day everyone!!!

The United Kingdom will prove all the remoaners wrong and will flourish continuingto grow its diverse ecomomy.

The EU is a failed project and we are leaving at the right time. Now the UK has left the EU the EU can focus on trying to improve on its rampant levels of unemployment throughout the bloc and stagnant growth of its economy.

The UK will continue to grow its diverse ecomomy that is now outperforming the EU and is forecast to continue to do so.

Celebrate and enjoy your day today.

Mon Scottish Labour 😁

[lapsedhibee]

I think Friday's headlines will be all about which hospital gets the £350m first, maybe a wee photo opportunity with Boris and his fall guy Hancock handing over the cheque.

They probably have the list of which hospital gets the same money the week after, and so on.

They'll need to share which hospital gets it's £350m and when so they can start planning all the big improvements they can make.



This divvying up the £350 million is getting more complicated by the week. First the 50,000 new hospitals and 40 more nurses to pay for, and now Coronavirus. At least the virus, as an external threat, will be good for pulling the country together. Maybe Chinese people, rather than Eastern Europeans, can get abused in the street now.

[Jones28]

Today is not a day for being bitter! All the best to you for the future

Here’s hoping it’s as bright as you seem to think it will be. Personally I feel this is a backwards step and is turning Scotland into an English county.

No point in arguing about it, but don’t try and glorify it either. There are a lot of very angry people - though I’m not one of them - and I wouldn’t want anyone to be subject to violence on either side.

[JeMeSouviens]

Happy Brexit Day everyone!!!

The United Kingdom will prove all the remoaners wrong and will flourish continuingto grow its diverse ecomomy.

The EU is a failed project and we are leaving at the right time. Now the UK has left the EU the EU can focus on trying to improve on its rampant levels of unemployment throughout the bloc and stagnant growth of its economy.

The UK will continue to grow its diverse ecomomy that is now outperforming the EU and is forecast to continue to do so.

Celebrate and enjoy your day today.

Hilarious. Do let us know when the tickets for your fringe show go on sale.

[Bostonhibby]

This divvying up the £350 million is getting more complicated by the week. First the 50,000 new hospitals and 40 more nurses to pay for, and now Coronavirus. At least the virus, as an external threat, will be good for pulling the country together. Maybe Chinese people, rather than Eastern Europeans, can get abused in the street now.The £350m per week has to be entirely separate from and in addition to all this other stuff surely? He was promising it before any of it arose.

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[lapsedhibee]

The £350m per week has to be entirely separate from and in addition to all this other stuff surely? He was promising it before any of it arose.


He was promising it before he was PM too. Now that he is, there'll be all sorts of expensive vanity projects to fund, as his legacy. I'm beginning to wonder whether there might not be a full extra £350m/week to spend on the NHS after all.

[WeeRussell]

Today is not a day for being bitter! All the best to you for the future

Without meaning to sound bitter - ****** off. And take your best wishes with you :wink:

[Slavers]

Without meaning to sound bitter - ****** off. And take your best wishes with you :wink:

Happy Brexit day my friend!

[Bostonhibby]

He was promising it before he was PM too. Now that he is, there'll be all sorts of expensive vanity projects to fund, as his legacy. I'm beginning to wonder whether there might not be a full extra £350m/week to spend on the NHS after all.Relax, it was on the side of a bus so it'll be true.

C'mon Boris Get £350m A Week done.

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[heretoday]

Happy Brexit Day everyone!!!

The United Kingdom will prove all the remoaners wrong and will flourish continuingto grow its diverse ecomomy.

The EU is a failed project and we are leaving at the right time. Now the UK has left the EU the EU can focus on trying to improve on its rampant levels of unemployment throughout the bloc and stagnant growth of its economy.

The UK will continue to grow its diverse ecomomy that is now outperforming the EU and is forecast to continue to do so.

Celebrate and enjoy your day today.

Sounds good! Thanks. And there was I getting depressed................

[Moulin Yarns]

Sounds good! Thanks. And there was I getting depressed................

Hope you and Slavers have a good time. The rest of us will be drowning our sorrows.

[heretoday]

Hope you and Slavers have a good time. The rest of us will be drowning our sorrows.

I voted Remain, mate. But you have to look on the bright side. No point being negative. Just make the best of things and stop moaning.

Everything might turn out OK. Who can say?

[Northernhibee]

I voted Remain, mate. But you have to look on the bright side. No point being negative. Just make the best of things and stop moaning.

Everything might turn out OK. Who can say?

Experts, who all say that it's a ****ing stupid idea.

[wpj]

I feel quite sick tbh now it's real.

[Pretty Boy]

Watching the countdown to 11 I would best describe myself as feeling a bit melancholy.

I'm not going to eulogise about the EU, it's an imperfect organisation, but it's sad that we have left on a wave of right wing populism and political opportunism rather than for any sound reasoning.

[lord bunberry]

Experts, who all say that it's a ****ing stupid idea.
Not just experts mate, the government who have taken us out are also saying the same.

[Ryan91]

Experts, who all say that it's a ****ing stupid idea.

Aye, but what do they know?

Also, Tweet from Nicola

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1223369787260260354

[Speedy]

Today is not a day for being bitter! All the best to you for the future

Maybe try again next time without the childish namecalling and you might get a better response.

[lord bunberry]

Watching the countdown to 11 I would best describe myself as feeling a bit melancholy.

I'm not going to eulogise about the EU, it's an imperfect organisation, but it's sad that we have left on a wave of right wing populism and political opportunism rather than for any sound reasoning.
There is no reasoning, we will never be able to negotiate a better deal than we already have. 20 or 30 years from now this might work in our favour, but in the here and now we will all have to live with the consequences. We’ve spent the last 10 years living through Austerity and we will now potentially have to deal with a recession and all the uncertainty that brexit is going to bring. I don’t know about you but I’m feeling pretty annoyed that my generation has effectively been sacrificed in order for extremely rich people to have their way in the world. Today is not a good day.

[grunt]

There is no reasoning, we will never be able to negotiate a better deal than we already have.

Had.

[lord bunberry]

Had.
True.

[danhibees1875]

Had.

11 months yet. :aok:

A lot will depend on what we eventually negotiate, but I think I've decided to hold out on some hope that economically things won't be too different. It's just a shame what it signifies socially.

I'm glad I just spent this evening inside having a chilled one and focusing on the transfer deadline. A brief walk outside to the shop ended up with me crossing paths with someone drunkenly singing "Poland's going home" to people in the street. :rolleyes:

[heretoday]

Ah big deal. It'll turn out OK. I'll stake my reputation on it.

Which is nothing by the way.

[lapsedhibee]

But you have to look on the bright side.
Agree with this to the extent that there's now a genuine possibility that those two insufferable ****s Farage and Francois might be off the airwaves for an extended period. Hallelujah!

[Mr Grieves]

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1223376150174601216?s=20

So here we have the UK government trying to gain leverage in the negotiations with the EU by threatening its own people with food shortages and price rises. Genius.

[Hibrandenburg]

I went to bed last night a European Citizen and I woke up this morning a European Citizen, for me nothing has changed personally but I can't help feel for all those other UK and EU Citizens that now find themselves in limbo after perfectly legally following a dream to live their lives elsewhere in the EU as an equal and have now had that right pulled out from under them without having had any say in the matter.

[lapsedhibee]

The glorious freedom from oppression, that we've waited three and a half years for, arrives. (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/01/police-called-in-after-poster-tells-residents-of-flats-to-speak-english)

[grunt]

A longish read for a Sunday afternoon.



Brexit, the most pointless, masochistic ambition in our country's history, is done


https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/01/brexit-pointless-masochistic-ambition-history-done?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[grunt]

And this one, from the ever reliable Chris Grey



So I mourn the country we have already lost, and fear for the one to come. For, dark as today is for so many of us, there may well be far darker days ahead.

https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2020/01/a-day-to-mourn.html

[Kato]

we have left on a wave of right wing populism and political opportunism rather than for any sound reasoning.

Exactly, anyone thinking there are sound reasons is being mugged.

[Slavers]

Nissan is backing brexit Britain!

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/109569/nissan-pull-out-europe-and-concentrate-uk-event-hard

I expect many more companies such as Airbus believing in brexit Britian and investing more in the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51047264

It's going to be interesting to see how remoaners try and explain why their predictions of the world coming to an end post brexit were untrue.

[Peevemor]

Nissan is backing brexit Britain!

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/109569/nissan-pull-out-europe-and-concentrate-uk-event-hard

I expect many more companies such as Airbus believing in brexit Britian and investing more in the UK.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-51047264

It's going to be interesting to see how remoaners try and explain why their predictions of the world coming to an end post brexit were untrue.

Brilliant!

You do understand why Nissan are saying that they MIGHT increase production in the UK? Because all other makes of cars will be more expensive. What great news for the Brits!

[Slavers]

Brilliant!

You do understand why Nissan are saying that they MIGHT increase production in the UK? Because all other makes of cars will be more expensive. What great news for the Brits!

Great news for those looking for jobs I agree!

[Slavers]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-51324862

Subsea7 UK are adding around 9000 jobs to the UK over the next 3 years with a large share of the jobs coming to Scotland and the North East of England.

Great news for the UK and another example of business investing in brexit Britain.

[Callum_62]

This "remoaner" chat is exactly what's wrong with this country

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[Slavers]

This "remoaner" chat is exactly what's wrong with this country

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Aww come on, i have not noticed you making comment on Brexiteers being called thick racist gammons?

Remoaners is fairly accurate as since the vote all they have does is moan about it.

[grunt]

Nissan is backing brexit Britain!

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/foreign-affairs/brexit/news/109569/nissan-pull-out-europe-and-concentrate-uk-event-hard

I expect many more companies such as Airbus believing in brexit Britian and investing more in the UK.

Perhaps it might help if you read what Nissan actually said rather than what your Government mouthpieces want you to see.



A spokesman for Nissan Europe said: "We deny such a contingency plan exists. We’ve modelled every possible ramification of Brexit and the fact remains that our entire business both in the UK and in Europe is not sustainable in the event of WTO tariffs.”

[grunt]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-51324862

Subsea7 UK are adding around 9000 jobs to the UK over the next 3 years with a large share of the jobs coming to Scotland and the North East of England.

Great news for the UK and another example of business investing in brexit Britain.Can you read? That article was about the subsea industry group whose job it is to talk up their sector. Subsea 7 UK is a company and they've said nothing about new recruitment, certainly not on that scale.

[Callum_62]

Aww come on, i have not noticed you making comment on Brexiteers being called thick racist gammons?

Remoaners is fairly accurate as since the vote all they have does is moan about it.In terms of Marc Francois is pretty accurate

Ofcourse labelling all leavers as the same is silly, just like the remoaner chat

The level of "debate" in the country has led us to where we are today

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[Ozyhibby]

Brilliant!

You do understand why Nissan are saying that they MIGHT increase production in the UK? Because all other makes of cars will be more expensive. What great news for the Brits!

And they can make all their cars for the EU at the Renault factory in France.


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[Slavers]

And they can make all their cars for the EU at the Renault factory in France.


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Nissan have said they will pull out the EU if it's a hard brexit closing their Barcelona opporations and their factory in France, instead choosing to increase their investment in the UK.

[Ozyhibby]

Nissan have said they will pull out the EU if it's a hard brexit closing their Barcelona opporations and their factory in France, instead choosing to increase their investment in the UK.

So Renault are going to pull out the EU? I very much doubt it.


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[grunt]

Nissan have said they will pull out the EU if it's a hard brexit closing their Barcelona opporations and their factory in France, instead choosing to increase their investment in the UK.
You post and you don't read the replies to your posts, do you? If you did, you wouldn't repeat your mistakes. I think you're just trolling here.

[lapsedhibee]

Nissan have said they will pull out the EU if it's a hard brexit closing their Barcelona opporations and their factory in France, instead choosing to increase their investment in the UK.

Nissan would struggle to compete with the likes of British Leyland, which we'll have once we get our industries back on 1st January next year, making local cars for local people.

[Ozyhibby]

Nissan are predicting that all imported cars are about to become more expensive and that they are going to be able to increase their market share because of that. In what way does more expensive cars and decreased competition sound good for UK car buyers?


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[lapsedhibee]

Nissan are predicting that all imported cars are about to become more expensive and that they are going to be able to increase their market share because of that. In what way does more expensive cars and decreased competition sound good for UK car buyers?

Sure cars'll be more expensive, but they'll be much more sovereign.

[Lendo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-business-51324862

Subsea7 UK are adding around 9000 jobs to the UK over the next 3 years with a large share of the jobs coming to Scotland and the North East of England.

Great news for the UK and another example of business investing in brexit Britain.


READ THE ARTICLE. Subsea7 are not doubling their workforce.

[danhibees1875]

Nissan are predicting that all imported cars are about to become more expensive and that they are going to be able to increase their market share because of that. In what way does more expensive cars and decreased competition sound good for UK car buyers?


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Pointing out flaws in the car industry arguement like that just makes you a vroomoaner. Stop being bitter.

I think a flourishing economy post-brexit seems unlikely, but I'd welcome a torrent of positive news that suggests, with the right deal, we could end up in about the same economic position as beforehand. Unfortunately, any projections I've seen suggest that our growth is going to drag behind pre-brexit levels.

[Slavers]

Pointing out flaws in the car industry arguement like that just makes you a vroomoaner. Stop being bitter.

I think a flourishing economy post-brexit seems unlikely, but I'd welcome a torrent of positive news that suggests, with the right deal, we could end up in about the same economic position as beforehand. Unfortunately, any projections I've seen suggest that our growth is going to drag behind pre-brexit levels.

The IMF have predicted that the UK will have higher levels of growth than the EU over the next 3 years.

[danhibees1875]

The IMF have predicted that the UK will have higher levels of growth than the EU over the next 3 years.

UK forecasts are for our growth to be worse than it was pre-brexit though (happy to be shown otherwise). Being better than one arbitrary comparison isn't much use really is it?

Although checking your figures, I assume the IMF have updated from July then? Which would make sense as 2019 would be known but I can't see them.

The latest I could see from them shows the UK growing 1.3% through what was left in 2019 and 1.4% in 2020. Eurozone 1.3% and 1.6% respectfully. All advanced economies AVG 1.9% and 1.7%. Global growth 3.2% and 3.5%.

[RyeSloan]

UK forecasts are for our growth to be worse than it was pre-brexit though (happy to be shown otherwise). Being better than one arbitrary comparison isn't much use really is it?

Although checking your figures, I assume the IMF have updated from July then? Which would make sense as 2019 would be known but I can't see them.

The latest I could see from them shows the UK growing 1.3% through what was left in 2019 and 1.4% in 2020. Eurozone 1.3% and 1.6% respectfully. All advanced economies AVG 1.9% and 1.7%. Global growth 3.2% and 3.5%.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theweek.co.uk/105298/imf-british-economy-to-grow-faster-than-eurozone%3famp

[lapsedhibee]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theweek.co.uk/105298/imf-british-economy-to-grow-faster-than-eurozone%3famp

assuming there is an orderly Brexit and a steady transition to a new relationship with the bloc

[Hibrandenburg]

Nissan are predicting that all imported cars are about to become more expensive and that they are going to be able to increase their market share because of that. In what way does more expensive cars and decreased competition sound good for UK car buyers?


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Sounds a bit like a capitalist DDR, you can have any kind of car you like providing it's a Nissan.

[Callum_62]

Sounds a bit like a capitalist DDR, you can have any kind of car you like providing it's a Nissan.Mon the Nissan Leafs.

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[danhibees1875]

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.theweek.co.uk/105298/imf-british-economy-to-grow-faster-than-eurozone%3famp

Thanks. :aok:

Looks like UK has been revised up a little and the EU down a little which has switched our positions from the last update in terms of doing least worst.

It is of course, as pointed out, dependant on a good break from the EU and is still lower than we've been since the financial crash and still much lagging behind our historical average of 2.45% since 1956.

It's a bit of good news regardless I guess - better be going up than down and presumably there's some good reason for a positive reforecast. I just don't think that merely comparing against the EU average allows for too much celebration.

[Slavers]

Sounds a bit like a capitalist DDR, you can have any kind of car you like providing it's a Nissan.

Trump will sort us out with some Tesla electric motors!!

[Peevemor]

I'll just leave this here.

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/top-stories/norton-motorcycles-goes-into-administration-1-6496163

[RyeSloan]

Thanks. :aok:

Looks like UK has been revised up a little and the EU down a little which has switched our positions from the last update in terms of doing least worst.

It is of course, as pointed out, dependant on a good break from the EU and is still lower than we've been since the financial crash and still much lagging behind our historical average of 2.45% since 1956.

It's a bit of good news regardless I guess - better be going up than down and presumably there's some good reason for a positive reforecast. I just don't think that merely comparing against the EU average allows for too much celebration.

Well I don’t put too much faith in any forecast...nor indeed on the method of calculating GDP as it still seems a bit stuck in the past.

But I suppose the comparison to the EU was made due to the fact that we are repeatedly being told leaving said Union is a negative...yet the report suggests the UK will grow faster than any of the EU’s main economies. Those two opposites do, at face value at least, look a touch odd.

Anyhow it’s taken a mighty 4 weeks into the year to see just how valuable these forecasts are....none of them will have factored in the Wuhan Virus and the impact that will have on ‘global growth’ so they may as well be chucked in the bin already.

[Slavers]

New transport links from London to Amsterdam - direct return train from Amsterdam to London begins after Brexit, starts in April.

Despite all those predicting that we would be cutting ourselves off from Europe, up pops Eurostar offering more services after Brexit to connect the UK to Amsterdam.

https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/travel/eurostar-direct-trains-from-amsterdam-to-london-due-in-april-a4352891.html

[Ozyhibby]

New transport links from London to Amsterdam - direct return train from Amsterdam to London begins after Brexit, starts in April.

Despite all those predicting that we would be cutting ourselves off from Europe, up pops Eurostar offering more services after Brexit to connect the UK to Amsterdam.

https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/travel/eurostar-direct-trains-from-amsterdam-to-london-due-in-april-a4352891.html

Phew. I was really worried that nobody would be looking out for London.


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[Moulin Yarns]

New transport links from London to Amsterdam - direct return train from Amsterdam to London begins after Brexit, starts in April.

Despite all those predicting that we would be cutting ourselves off from Europe, up pops Eurostar offering more services after Brexit to connect the UK to Amsterdam.

https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/travel/eurostar-direct-trains-from-amsterdam-to-london-due-in-april-a4352891.html

Do you know when the direct train from Edinburgh to Amsterdam is starting?

[JeMeSouviens]

New transport links from London to Amsterdam - direct return train from Amsterdam to London begins after Brexit, starts in April.

Despite all those predicting that we would be cutting ourselves off from Europe, up pops Eurostar offering more services after Brexit to connect the UK to Amsterdam.

https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/travel/eurostar-direct-trains-from-amsterdam-to-london-due-in-april-a4352891.html

I'm not entirely sure anyone predicted Eurostar would stop running. :rolleyes:

Is this the best you can do?

[Moulin Yarns]

New transport links from London to Amsterdam - direct return train from Amsterdam to London begins after Brexit, starts in April.

Despite all those predicting that we would be cutting ourselves off from Europe, up pops Eurostar offering more services after Brexit to connect the UK to Amsterdam.

https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/travel/eurostar-direct-trains-from-amsterdam-to-london-due-in-april-a4352891.html

Have you read the article? Direct train from London to Amsterdam has been running since 2018,so the UK is connected to Amsterdam BEFORE Brexit.

[Slavers]

Have you read the article? Direct train from London to Amsterdam has been running since 2018,so the UK is connected to Amsterdam BEFORE Brexit.

But they have recently added the return journey that starts from April after Brexit.

[Slavers]

I'm not entirely sure anyone predicted Eurostar would stop running. :rolleyes:

Is this the best you can do?

Don't worry ill make sure all the positive news is posted on here for you.

[grunt]

But they have recently added the return journey that starts from April after Brexit.Please define "after Brexit".

[Slavers]

Do you know when the direct train from Edinburgh to Amsterdam is starting?

Ask Nicola Sturgeon this is the type of thing she should be concentrating on.

[Slavers]

Please define "after Brexit".

After leaving the EU.

[Ozyhibby]

But they have recently added the return journey that starts from April after Brexit.

The train is coming back? The is blowing me away.[emoji23]


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[Moulin Yarns]

But they have recently added the return journey that starts from April after Brexit.

That's not what you said. You said there was a new transport link from London to Amsterdam. Not the other way round.

Besides which, as someone who is so anti European why are you happy with these continuing links with the continent?

[Just Alf]

Ask Nicola Sturgeon this is the type of thing she should be concentrating on.Not really, the whole business case for the chunnel and high speed route was based on the route running all the way to Scotland, they even bought land in the central belt for the terminus / transport hub, to this day its still got a Euro related name despite the UK government pulling any further expenditure after the line was built to London. You really need to ask the UK government on this one.

As an aside, I can't help thinking the completion of that line would be more beneficial than HS2.

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[Slavers]

That's not what you said. You said there was a new transport link from London to Amsterdam. Not the other way round.

Besides which, as someone who is so anti European why are you happy with these continuing links with the continent?

Im pro-european but anti-eu!!

[Kato]

Aww come on, i have not noticed you making comment on Brexiteers being called thick racist gammons?

Remoaners is fairly accurate as since the vote all they have does is moan about it.People are perfectly entitled to moan about lies.

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[Slavers]

People are perfectly entitled to moan about lies.

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You've no comment on all the lies remain said though.

[Kato]

You've no comment on all the lies remain said though.Given the amount from the Leave side, no.

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[Slavers]

Given the amount from the Leave side, no.

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Well its pot calling the kettle black then.

Food shortages, mass unemployment, no medicines, sun falling out the sky etc all the fear mongering from remain to try and win the vote, then all the remain MPs trying to block a democratic vote until they were turfed out on their ***** by the general public via the general election and even now remain supporters have the brass neck to talk about lies from the leave side.

[Just_Jimmy]

Well its pot calling the kettle black then.You're by far the most ridiculous poster on this site. Forgive me, but you're never seen on the main board either...

Apt username. Very fitting.

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[Kato]

Well its pot calling the kettle black then.A huge massive black kettle backed by millions of pounds and a large Russian sponsored disinformation programme versus a tiny black pot.

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[Slavers]

A huge massive black kettle backed by millions of pounds and a large Russian sponsored disinformation programme versus a tiny black pot.

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Where is your evidence? 17m+ all duped by the Russians eh? If you really believe this then no wonder your side keep losing at the ballot box and will continue to do so.

[Kato]

, sun falling out the sky

That's a lie.

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[Slavers]

That's a lie.

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Of course it was and leave voters knew it.

[Kato]

Where is your evidence? 17m+ all duped by the Russians eh? If you really believe this then no wonder your side keep losing at the ballot box and will continue to do so.Your twisting what I said. Not every leave voter was a victim of Russian propaganda. A lot of them were already primed by the lies from the Daily Mail/Express over the years, a lot of them were already xenophobic and a lot of them were already racist, some were even taken in that the sorry state of their communities was the fault of the EU rather than years of neglect from UK governments.

BTW, the "your side are losers" chat says more about you than anyone else. We are all losers given who has just been put in charge of the country - apart from tax dodgers and their chums.

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[Slavers]

Your twisting what I said. Not every leave voter was a victim of Russian propaganda. A lot of them were already primed by the lies from the Daily Mail/Express over the years, a lot of them were already xenophobic and a lot of them were already racist, some were even taken in that the sorry state of their communities was the fault of the EU rather than years of neglect from UK governments.

BTW, the "your side are losers" chat says more about you than anyone else. We are all losers given who has just been put in charge of the country - apart from tax dodgers and their chums.

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The fact you think leave voters were mostly either thick racists or they were duped by Russians says it all.

How do you expect for this kind of view to ever be backed by the majority of voters? It won't but good luck with it.

[Kato]

The fact you think leave voters were mostly either thick racists or they were duped by Russians says it all.

How do you expect for this kind of view to ever be backed by the majority of voters? It won't but good luck with it.I dont expect anything from those voters, other than what they have already delivered. I dont care if that " says it all". The smugness and "you lost get over it " comments from them tells me exactly what kind of person they are and the shallow, easy way they can be manipulated.

Every racist in the country voted for Brexit. As did every xenophobe, as did all the thickos who fall for a posh accent and a Union Jack no matter what harm said poshos inflict on them. Your welcome to walk on with your fellow travellers and while I'm entitled to comment on them I have no wish to spend any energy changing their minds.

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[jonty]

New Existing transport links from London to Amsterdam - direct return train from Amsterdam to London begins after before Brexit, starts in April started years ago. We're just putting on more trains.

Despite all those predicting that we would be cutting ourselves off from Europe, up pops Eurostar offering more services after Brexit to connect the UK to Amsterdam.
No doubt looking to make a profit in hauling additional cargo/freight as the ferrys/freight pile up waiting on customs.

https://www.standard.co.uk/lifestyle/travel/eurostar-direct-trains-from-amsterdam-to-london-due-in-april-a4352891.html


But Brexit is about taking back control of the borders. You're bringing MORE people in! :rolleyes:

[Moulin Yarns]

Im pro-european but anti-eu!!

You are nigel Farage and I claim my Brexit 50p

[Slavers]

The good news keeps coming in regards to the UK economy post Brexit

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/02/05/services-sector-soars-britain-outpaces-eurozone-economies/

"Such strong growth in the dominant industry - which makes up more than 80pc of the entire economy - outweighed declines in manufacturing and construction to take the composite index across the private sector to 53.3.It means Britain’s businesses are outstripping performance in all of the major eurozone economies, whose scores range from Italy’s 50.4 to Spain’s 51.5."

[lapsedhibee]

The good news keeps coming in regards to the UK economy post Brexit

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2020/02/05/services-sector-soars-britain-outpaces-eurozone-economies/



"in January".

Probably the figures are just for 11pm-midnight on the 31st though.

:bitchy:

[Slavers]

"in January".

Probably the figures are just for 11pm-midnight on the 31st though.

:bitchy:

OK granted we only left on the 31st of January and the figures are for the period before that but surely you must agree that is is good news for the UK that the economy is performing well after all the predictions of doom?

Another question is why is the EU is performing so badly? I believe that they are still using QE to prop up their economy but yet growth is stagnant and unemployment rampant, why?

[Ozyhibby]

OK granted we only left on the 31st of January and the figures are for the period before that but surely you must agree that is is good news for the UK that the economy is performing well after all the predictions of doom?

Another question is why is the EU is performing so badly? I believe that they are still using QE to prop up their economy but yet growth is stagnant and unemployment rampant, why?

There could be 27 different reasons. They are all different countries. France has ridiculous employment protections that prevent job creation and stop people moving jobs for example. There could be other reasons in Spain.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Parliament briefing on services sector.


https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/SN02786

[Just Alf]

There could be 27 different reasons. They are all different countries. France has ridiculous employment protections that prevent job creation and stop people moving jobs for example. There could be other reasons in Spain.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkOthers use their power over immigration levels which can have a side effect of stifling growth.

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[Just Alf]

Also, all this talk we've now left and the world hasn't fallen in/we haven't become all conquering hero's etc etc... We do all realise nothing has actually changed yet? We need to wait until after the end of the transition period before we can say Brexit is proved as a bad/good thing.



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[danhibees1875]

Also, all this talk we've now left and the world hasn't fallen in/we haven't become all conquering hero's etc etc... We do all realise nothing has actually changed yet? We need to wait until after the end of the transition period before we can say Brexit is proved as a bad/good thing.



Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

Not even then I wouldn't think.

There's also many factors at play, not just the economy.

I do welcome any good news though, and a positive report for the service sector in the turbulent times leading up to Brexit (31/1 version) would seem to be just that on the face of it.


Out of interest the article pointed to some scores increasing as the main reason for the joy - what were the scores historically? "Fastest paced since 2018" is maybe a good start, but might not be as fantastic as it looks.

[Kato]

Also, all this talk we've now left and the world hasn't fallen in/we haven't become all conquering hero's etc etc... We do all realise nothing has actually changed yet? We need to wait until after the end of the transition period before we can say Brexit is proved as a bad/good thing.



Sent from my SM-G935F using TapatalkSeems like some limited stats from a Tory newspaper is enough to convince some.

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[Northernhibee]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvm3xeO1lA0

A really fabulous video by Jonathan Pie. Sums up for me as to why the remain side lost. The Momentum types (and to be fair a small minority of the Lib Dem and the pro Scottish independence groups) were more likely to call anyone who disagreed with them a "Tory", "Blairite", "racist" than actually engage with them in debate.

[Kato]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lvm3xeO1lA0

A really fabulous video by Jonathan Pie. Sums up for me as to why the remain side won. The Momentum types (and to be fair a small minority of the Lib Dem and the pro Scottish independence groups) were more likely to call anyone who disagreed with them a "Tory", "Blairite", "racist" than actually engage with them in debate.I cant actually remember any debate, just soundbites and slogans.

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[Hibrandenburg]

I cant actually remember any debate, just soundbites and slogans.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

Yep, If it can't be said in less that 140 characters or in a funny picture with a slogan added to it then it's not worth listening to.

[lapsedhibee]

I cant actually remember any debate, just soundbites and slogans.


:agree: Already reports of turmoil (well, disagreement between master and puppet) inside no 10, and the reason is very clear. Winners' messaging has mutated from successful 3-word 4-syllable slogans to "Unleash Britain's Potential" which is the right number of words but has far, far too many syllables to resonate. All downhill for the government now.

[JeMeSouviens]

With fury I’d imagine but I’m not sure where you are getting any indication that this will happen.

Previously Gove in particular has been very clear that access to UK waters would be separate to any trade discussions (they are after all two different things). Has there been something said or highlighted that indicates that this position has changed and the ‘inevitable sell out’ is on its way?

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/06/fishing-eu-countries-seek-tough-stance-on-access-to-uk-waters?CMP=share_btn_tw


David McAllister, a German Christian Democrat MEP, who is leading the European parliament on EU-UK talks, said the issue of access to waters was “inseparable” from overall deal, as well as access to European fisheries markets. Two-thirds of fish caught by British boats are exported to the EU.

“The issue of free access to waters is inseparable from the issue of free trade and access of UK fisheries products to the EU market,” the MEP told journalists last week. “So the negotiations of the UK on fisheries cannot be disconnected and will have a direct link with the negotiations on trade in goods. It’s that simple. If the UK grants us access to territorial waters, to fish, then on the other hand the UK will have access to export fisheries to the single market.”

[WeeRussell]

Don't worry ill make sure all the positive news is posted on here for you.

I'm really struggling to work out if I strongly believe you should be booted off of here completely, or whether I think you're one of those worth keeping for a spell, for the entertainment value.

I'm normally not too far away with these, and I predict you'll be gone before the Scottish Premier league split :aok:

[Mantis Toboggan]

I'm really struggling to work out if I strongly believe you should be booted off of here completely, or whether I think you're one of those worth keeping for a spell, for the entertainment value.

I'm normally not too far away with these, and I predict you'll be gone before the Scottish Premier league split :aok:

Wouldnt count on it, he/she has been posting the same obnoxious pish on a number of predictable topics for quite some time. Just scroll past and ignore and boredom may eventually set in.

[grunt]

Bloody immigrants, coming over here and learning our language better than the natives ...

https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/1225699955676864519?s=20

[JeMeSouviens]

The government finally admits all the guff about "frictionless trade" (Johnson was still peddling this at the Nissan plant in Sunderland as recently as December) was a load of old *****.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/feb/10/checks-on-eu-bound-goods-inevitable-gove-tells-business-leaders

This should have the entire country raging but the Brexiters won't care and Remainers priced in lying *****baggery so long ago that it barely raises an eyebrow,

****s.

[JeMeSouviens]

This is just utterly bizarre. We are giving up free trade not only with a market of 450m+ on our doorsteps but with all the other countries/trading blocs our former trading bloc had free trade agreements with. And Brexiters still think they're champions of free trade. :confused:

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1224430238647582722

****** loonies.

[Kato]

This is just utterly bizarre. We are giving up free trade not only with a market of 450m+ on our doorsteps but with all the other countries/trading blocs our former trading bloc had free trade agreements with. And Brexiters still think they're champions of free trade. :confused:

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1224430238647582722

****** loonies.EU's new off-shore Tax Laws avoided though. That's all that matters. All the "sovereignty" "take back control" bollocks is just the window dressing to avoid the scrutiny that would have come down on them. They dont care if they look daft.

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[lapsedhibee]

This is just utterly bizarre. We are giving up free trade not only with a market of 450m+ on our doorsteps but with all the other countries/trading blocs our former trading bloc had free trade agreements with. And Brexiters still think they're champions of free trade. :confused:

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1224430238647582722

****** loonies.

Which will come first: completion of the new bridge, or Mark Francois coming to see what Brexit's really all about? :hmmm:

[JeMeSouviens]

Which will come first: completion of the new bridge, or Mark Francois coming to see what Brexit's really all about? :hmmm:

Hibs' Champions League win will narrowly precede both.

[JeMeSouviens]

Also notice the Tories have started talking about an "Australian style deal" with the EU. Presumably hoping nobody will notice that Australia currently doesn't have a FTA with the EU at all. They really are a shameless bunch of ********s.

[Bostonhibby]

Bloody immigrants, coming over here and learning our language better than the natives ...

https://twitter.com/MichaelPDeacon/status/1225699955676864519?s=20Jeez, they'll be taking all the jobs that some of the natives have no intention of taking, and paying all that tax and NI to keep said natives in the style they have come to expect[emoji6]

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[Northernhibee]

Don't worry ill make sure all the positive news is posted on here for you.

Great, let me know when they start.

[Ozyhibby]

Also notice the Tories have started talking about an "Australian style deal" with the EU. Presumably hoping nobody will notice that Australia currently doesn't have a FTA with the EU at all. They really are a shameless bunch of ********s.

They have been told to always substitute ‘no deal’ with ‘Australian style deal’. It’s the same thing.


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[Hibrandenburg]

Don't worry ill make sure all the positive news is posted on here for you.

Not sure that's gonna have a significant effect on your post count.

[Slavers]

Not sure that's gonna have a significant effect on your post count.

It's about quality not quantity of posts.

[Moulin Yarns]

It's about quality not quantity of posts.

Then please remember to use an apostrophe in I'll 😁. Unless you actually are sick 🤒🤔

[JeMeSouviens]

It's about quality not quantity of posts.

I can't believe you haven't been on to tell us that UK Q4 GDP was flat vs the EU average 0.1% growth. Normally you love these kind of stats. :confused:

[grunt]

I can't believe you haven't been on to tell us that UK Q4 GDP was flat vs the EU average 0.1% growth. Normally you love these kind of stats. :confused:

Lack of belief from UK business! Believe harder!

[Kato]

I can't believe you haven't been on to tell us that UK Q4 GDP was flat vs the EU average 0.1% growth. Normally you love these kind of stats. :confused:

Bots usually have a lot of posts to make on various platforms, he'll get round to it.

[lapsedhibee]

Smith sacked as NI Secretary. Johnson weeding out anyone who shows any sort of competence from his cabinet. Bradley still available as replacement.

[JeMeSouviens]

Smith sacked as NI Secretary. Johnson weeding out anyone who shows any sort of competence from his cabinet. Bradley still available as replacement.

Bizarre. He actually got somewhere and seems to have been well regarded on all sides in NI and the Republic. :confused:

[RyeSloan]

Was a favourite topic here for a while so interesting to see that GBP is approaching €1.20 today.

Probably more to do with the ongoing troubles of the Euro than sterling ‘strength’ right enough but will be interesting to see if the trend continues through the trade negotiations.

The Euro continues to be hammered down to in no small part of it being the currencies world favourite carry trade as the ECB continues to try and fail with its negative real interest rate policy.

[JeMeSouviens]

Was a favourite topic here for a while so interesting to see that GBP is approaching €1.20 today.

Probably more to do with the ongoing troubles of the Euro than sterling ‘strength’ right enough but will be interesting to see if the trend continues through the trade negotiations.

The Euro continues to be hammered down to in no small part of it being the currencies world favourite carry trade as the ECB continues to try and fail with its negative real interest rate policy.

https://uk.finance.yahoo.com/chart/GBPEUR=X#eyJpbnRlcnZhbCI6IndlZWsiLCJwZXJpb2RpY2l0e SI6MSwiY2FuZGxlV2lkdGgiOjMuNzk4NDQ5NjEyNDAzMTAxLCJ 2b2x1bWVVbmRlcmxheSI6dHJ1ZSwiYWRqIjp0cnVlLCJjcm9zc 2hhaXIiOnRydWUsImNoYXJ0VHlwZSI6ImxpbmUiLCJleHRlbmR lZCI6ZmFsc2UsIm1hcmtldFNlc3Npb25zIjp7fSwiYWdncmVnY XRpb25UeXBlIjoib2hsYyIsImNoYXJ0U2NhbGUiOiJsaW5lYXI iLCJwYW5lbHMiOnsiY2hhcnQiOnsicGVyY2VudCI6MSwiZGlzc GxheSI6IkdCUEVVUj1YIiwiY2hhcnROYW1lIjoiY2hhcnQiLCJ 0b3AiOjB9fSwic2V0U3BhbiI6eyJtdWx0aXBsaWVyIjo1LCJiY XNlIjoieWVhciIsInBlcmlvZGljaXR5Ijp7InBlcmlvZCI6MSw iaW50ZXJ2YWwiOiJ3ZWVrIn19LCJsaW5lV2lkdGgiOjIsInN0c mlwZWRCYWNrZ3JvdWQiOnRydWUsImV2ZW50cyI6dHJ1ZSwiY29 sb3IiOiIjMDA4MWYyIiwiZXZlbnRNYXAiOnsiY29ycG9yYXRlI jp7ImRpdnMiOnRydWUsInNwbGl0cyI6dHJ1ZX0sInNpZ0RldiI 6e319LCJjdXN0b21SYW5nZSI6bnVsbCwic3ltYm9scyI6W3sic 3ltYm9sIjoiR0JQRVVSPVgiLCJzeW1ib2xPYmplY3QiOnsic3l tYm9sIjoiR0JQRVVSPVgifSwicGVyaW9kaWNpdHkiOjEsImlud GVydmFsIjoid2VlayIsInNldFNwYW4iOnsibXVsdGlwbGllciI 6NSwiYmFzZSI6InllYXIiLCJwZXJpb2RpY2l0eSI6eyJwZXJpb 2QiOjEsImludGVydmFsIjoid2VlayJ9fX1dLCJzdHVkaWVzIjp 7InZvbCB1bmRyIjp7InR5cGUiOiJ2b2wgdW5kciIsImlucHV0c yI6eyJpZCI6InZvbCB1bmRyIiwiZGlzcGxheSI6InZvbCB1bmR yIn0sIm91dHB1dHMiOnsiVXAgVm9sdW1lIjoiIzAwYjA2MSIsI kRvd24gVm9sdW1lIjoiI0ZGMzMzQSJ9LCJwYW5lbCI6ImNoYXJ 0IiwicGFyYW1ldGVycyI6eyJ3aWR0aEZhY3RvciI6MC40NSwiY 2hhcnROYW1lIjoiY2hhcnQifX19fQ==

Back to 2017 levels but still a long way behind pre-ref by the look of that chart.

Anyway, Brexit woes are going to hit the Europeans as well as the UK.*




* unless we believe, really, really hard of course!

[Moulin Yarns]

Absolutely disgusting service at Waitrose. Queued 55 minutes and not one straight banana to be seen. This isn't the Brexit I voted for. 😉

[Slavers]

Absolutely disgusting service at Waitrose. Queued 55 minutes and not one straight banana to be seen. This isn't the Brexit I voted for. 😉

What is the point you are trying to make?

[grunt]

What is the point you are trying to make?
https://twitter.com/colinbrowning14/status/1227906931450425344?s=21

[Bangkok Hibby]

Absolutely disgusting service at Waitrose. Queued 55 minutes and not one straight banana to be seen. This isn't the Brexit I voted for. 😉

Haha topical 😂😂

[Moulin Yarns]

What is the point you are trying to make?

Whoosh 😁

[Moulin Yarns]

Haha topical 😂😂

👍😁

[Cataplana]

So, we are moving to a points based immigration policy. Does that mean that wages will have to increase to meet the shortfall of workers from overseas?

I can see real problems in areas like care homes.

[lapsedhibee]

So, we are moving to a points based immigration policy. Does that mean that wages will have to increase to meet the shortfall of workers from overseas?


The 8.5 million economically inactive 16-64 year olds in the UK will snap up the vacancies, providing they have no other options, like welfare benefits. Think that's the gist of the plan, isn't it?

[Cataplana]

The 8.5 million economically inactive 16-64 year olds in the UK will snap up the vacancies, providing they have no other options, like welfare benefits. Think that's the gist of the plan, isn't it?

I'd rather have foreign labour to be honest.

[Bostonhibby]

The 8.5 million economically inactive 16-64 year olds in the UK will snap up the vacancies, providing they have no other options, like welfare benefits. Think that's the gist of the plan, isn't it?It's a great chance for the Brexit voters amongst them who were concerned about foreign workers to step up to the plate and take up the jobs that's for sure.

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[Hibrandenburg]

I'd rather have foreign labour to be honest.

Watch this, it'll terrify you.


https://youtu.be/bqo-7rtGwOU

[RyeSloan]

The 8.5 million economically inactive 16-64 year olds in the UK will snap up the vacancies, providing they have no other options, like welfare benefits. Think that's the gist of the plan, isn't it?

The gist of the plan is to increase productivity by removing the free flow of cheap foreign labour and force companies to invest in machinery and automation instead.

The UK’s productivity level has flat lined for years so as a general economic principle thats not a bad one. Higher productivity makes the nation richer. And neither is the desire to reduce the number of economically inactive members of your society a bad one. The reasons they are currently inactive will be many and varied of course but it doesn’t seem a ridiculous concept that at least some of them can be encouraged back into the workforce.

But as ever the devil is in the detail and of course the laws of unintended consequences will be prevalent...as soon as I see governments deciding what industries qualify for certain relaxing of conditions and others not I’m rather wary!

However listening to some companies complaining that they might not be viable because they no longer have a freely available pool of low cost, low skilled labour to prop up their business model does make me wonder if those really are business models that we want to be perpetuating anyway? Maybe if they need to start paying higher wages to attract employees then that might not be a bad thing?

[Killiehibbie]

The gist of the plan is to increase productivity by removing the free flow of cheap foreign labour and force companies to invest in machinery and automation instead.

The UK’s productivity level has flat lined for years so as a general economic principle thats not a bad one. Higher productivity makes the nation richer. And neither is the desire to reduce the number of economically inactive members of your society a bad one. The reasons they are currently inactive will be many and varied of course but it doesn’t seem a ridiculous concept that at least some of them can be encouraged back into the workforce.

But as ever the devil is in the detail and of course the laws of unintended consequences will be prevalent...as soon as I see governments deciding what industries qualify for certain relaxing of conditions and others not I’m rather wary!

However listening to some companies complaining that they might not be viable because they no longer have a freely available pool of low cost, low skilled labour to prop up their business model does make me wonder if those really are business models that we want to be perpetuating anyway? Maybe if they need to start paying higher wages to attract employees then that might not be a bad thing?

Over 100000 vacancies in the care sector alone and 33000 of those 8.5 million not sick, studying or carers. You might even find most of them have retired early.

[RyeSloan]

Over 100000 vacancies in the care sector alone and 33000 of those 8.5 million not sick, studying or carers. You might even find most of them have retired early.

ONS states that 1.87m of the economically inactive ‘would like a job’

But absolutely millions of them don’t or won’t want one but as I said encouraging and supporting some of them into work or back into is not a bad policy in itself.

As for care sector vacancies, well it seems to me this sector has significant structural issues not least the endemic low pay throughout.

That’s not to say the new immigration policy will do anything to help and may well exacerbate the problems. But none the less the current set up doesn’t seem to be a panacea for it either.

[lapsedhibee]

it doesn’t seem a ridiculous concept that at least some of them can be encouraged back into the workforce
Absolutely not ridiculous, but needs people who know WTF they're doing to implement it, which this government don't.

[Killiehibbie]

ONS states that 1.87m of the economically inactive ‘would like a job’

But absolutely millions of them don’t or won’t want one but as I said encouraging and supporting some of them into work or back into is not a bad policy in itself.

As for care sector vacancies, well it seems to me this sector has significant structural issues not least the endemic low pay throughout.

That’s not to say the new immigration policy will do anything to help and may well exacerbate the problems. But none the less the current set up doesn’t seem to be a panacea for it either.

I'd like to be a footballer. As much chance of that as that figure of 1.8m being serious about wanting to work the ****ty jobs that are out there, even for a much higher wage.

[heretoday]

You can get folk off the dole to pick raspberries or whatever but caring for the elderly is different. It takes a certain type of person to do it properly and with respect. I fear we're going to see many more stories of neglect and maltreatment from care homes in the future.

[Mibbes Aye]

ONS states that 1.87m of the economically inactive ‘would like a job’

But absolutely millions of them don’t or won’t want one but as I said encouraging and supporting some of them into work or back into is not a bad policy in itself.

As for care sector vacancies, well it seems to me this sector has significant structural issues not least the endemic low pay throughout.

That’s not to say the new immigration policy will do anything to help and may well exacerbate the problems. But none the less the current set up doesn’t seem to be a panacea for it either.

The challenge in the care sector is that it is labour-intensive, whether it is delivered in people's own homes or care homes. This is exacerbated year-on-year by people living longer and longer, whilst with basic care needs or long-term health conditions that require some form of support, sometimes several times a day.

The sector doesn't pay well and it is not difficult to understand why many would rather choose to work in Tesco or B+Q or Dobbie's. Due to the nature of working with vulnerable people there is also a much greater degree of regulation of the workforce. For some, that is off-putting.

Throw in the addition that significant parts of Scotland (and the UK) are rural and remote and one can see why private sector providers simply don't see a profit in providing services. Local authorities should be the 'provider of last resort' and in some places choose to be an active provider. They, however, face and have faced significant cost pressures over recent years and their own sustainability has to be questioned.

Comparing the levels of financial reserves held by councils today, as opposed to five -eight years ago would be stark.

Also, because councils essentially have to prioritise social care and education over everything else, their share of the council budget has had to increase, which is why a lot of other council services have been shrunk or disappeared - the care and education slice of the pie has grown bigger and bigger. But the services that have been shrunk, often in their own ways, were services which helped prevent or delay people needing more formal care.

[Ozyhibby]

The challenge in the care sector is that it is labour-intensive, whether it is delivered in people's own homes or care homes. This is exacerbated year-on-year by people living longer and longer, whilst with basic care needs or long-term health conditions that require some form of support, sometimes several times a day.

The sector doesn't pay well and it is not difficult to understand why many would rather choose to work in Tesco or B+Q or Dobbie's. Due to the nature of working with vulnerable people there is also a much greater degree of regulation of the workforce. For some, that is off-putting.

Throw in the addition that significant parts of Scotland (and the UK) are rural and remote and one can see why private sector providers simply don't see a profit in providing services. Local authorities should be the 'provider of last resort' and in some places choose to be an active provider. They, however, face and have faced significant cost pressures over recent years and their own sustainability has to be questioned.

Comparing the levels of financial reserves held by councils today, as opposed to five -eight years ago would be stark.

Also, because councils essentially have to prioritise social care and education over everything else, their share of the council budget has had to increase, which is why a lot of other council services have been shrunk or disappeared - the care and education slice of the pie has grown bigger and bigger. But the services that have been shrunk, often in their own ways, were services which helped prevent or delay people needing more formal care.

Maybe time for compulsory insurance to cover care costs in old age?


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[Mibbes Aye]

Maybe time for compulsory insurance to cover care costs in old age?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

My longstanding view is that it needs a proper inquiry, along the lines of the Royal Commissions we had in the 1970s, that really got into the heart of matters.

Your point about compulsory contributions is a fascinating topic that I am not getting into tonight because I am going to bed :-) but I will make one point.

That sort of proposal, out of both pragmatism and a desire to address inequality, invariably involves a cut-off or tapering whereby those with assets beyond a certain level have to use them. Given this country (and I mean the UK or Scotland) is so wedded to the notion of property and passing it onto their children then I am not sure how it could be sold to the public at large.

[HibernianJK]

Not sure what thread is best, but has Priti Patel been mentioned? The most hypocritical selfish **** in British politics. Her own ****ing parents wouldn’t be allowed in this country with the new proposed laws but yet she still backs them. She’s a rat.

[HibernianJK]

It’s similar to getting into a high end nightclub with a T-shirt and trainers the complaining the person behind you got in wearing the same style.

[Ozyhibby]

My longstanding view is that it needs a proper inquiry, along the lines of the Royal Commissions we had in the 1970s, that really got into the heart of matters.

Your point about compulsory contributions is a fascinating topic that I am not getting into tonight because I am going to bed :-) but I will make one point.

That sort of proposal, out of both pragmatism and a desire to address inequality, invariably involves a cut-off or tapering whereby those with assets beyond a certain level have to use them. Given this country (and I mean the UK or Scotland) is so wedded to the notion of property and passing it onto their children then I am not sure how it could be sold to the public at large.

I can understand why people are attached to their property, because it doesn’t always reflect the size of their income throughout their life but also their choices.
Back in the mid 80’s when I was an apprentice I worked with a couple of joiners who had worked together for about 15 years. They both made exactly the same money but were in very different situations at about 35 years of age. One was on his fourth house after buying his first house and renovating them selling for bigger every time. He had not been many holidays over the years but wasn’t that bothered and was chuffed with his house. The other lived in his council house and intended to continue doing so. He was always going pretty good holiday (for the mid 80’s) and he also sounded like he had a better social life. Two guys making different decisions and neither right or wrong in my opinion but I can imagine that as they are probably (no idea what they are up to now) hitting retirement I could see why the one who bought the property would be p’ed off if his house had to be sold to pay for his care costs while the other guy got the same care costs for free.



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[Colr]

Not sure what thread is best, but has Priti Patel been mentioned? The most hypocritical selfish **** in British politics. Her own ****ing parents wouldn’t be allowed in this country with the new proposed laws but yet she still backs them. She’s a rat.

I recommend reading her contribution to ‘Britannia Unchained’ it’ll give you some idea of what level of ****bag this little **** actually is.

Dominic Raab contributed to it as well but he’s just not very bright.

[Smartie]

I can understand why people are attached to their property, because it doesn’t always reflect the size of their income throughout their life but also their choices.
Back in the mid 80’s when I was an apprentice I worked with a couple of joiners who had worked together for about 15 years. They both made exactly the same money but were in very different situations at about 35 years of age. One was on his fourth house after buying his first house and renovating them selling for bigger every time. He had not been many holidays over the years but wasn’t that bothered and was chuffed with his house. The other lived in his council house and intended to continue doing so. He was always going pretty good holiday (for the mid 80’s) and he also sounded like he had a better social life. Two guys making different decisions and neither right or wrong in my opinion but I can imagine that as they are probably (no idea what they are up to now) hitting retirement I could see why the one who bought the property would be p’ed off if his house had to be sold to pay for his care costs while the other guy got the same care costs for free.



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For the reasons you mention, this is going to be a very tough problem to fix and it's not that I don't have sympathy for the guy who "did the right thing".

Say for example the guy who lived the high life and lived in the council house reaches 65 and drops dead having never spent a day in hospital in his life or taken any medication. Over a lifetime, he's probably paid more than enough in tax to cover what he has received. Then imagine the other guy having several operations throughout his 50s, being on medication every day from 60, reaching about 85 where he has to go into a home but as his dementia develops his heart and lungs are strong so he hangs on needing significantly expensive resident care for more than a decade.

The nation needs to have a serious conversation about how we pay for the increasing numbers of people who are falling into the latter category. This care has to be paid for by someone and it is a significant cost (especially now we've got our country back delivering fairer wages for British workers to have British hands to wipe British *****).

I don't have the answer and I accept that in your example it appears totally unfair on those who have been responsible. You have to accept the consequences of your actions though, and you have to accept that occasionally you are only a quirk of government away from your hard work and good decisions being wiped out.

The politicians alone cannot be trusted to fix this, and MA's idea is an excellent one. I'm convinced there is plenty to go round in this country (and throughout the world) but we're struggling to make it happen right now and we're being forced to think that constitutional change, or reducing immigration, or taxing the rich etc etc is the answer to all of our questions. We need to think about it at a higher level and people can then plan accordingly.

[JeMeSouviens]

I recommend reading her contribution to ‘Britannia Unchained’ it’ll give you some idea of what level of ****bag this little **** actually is.

Dominic Raab contributed to it as well but he’s just not very bright.

And Liz Truss and Kwasi Karteng. I suspect we'll look back in 20 years at the wasteland these idiots create in the same way people in the 40s and 50s revisited Mein Kampf* and realised all that stuff about lebensraum wasn't just idle nonsense after all.



* yeah, yeah, Godwin's law, yadda yadda.

[Colr]

And Liz Truss and Kwasi Karteng. I suspect we'll look back in 20 years at the wasteland these idiots create in the same way people in the 40s and 50s revisited Mein Kampf* and realised all that stuff about lebensraum wasn't just idle nonsense after all.



* yeah, yeah, Godwin's law, yadda yadda.

These books are well worth a look when they come out. The LibDems orange book showed the thinking that led them to the coalition whereas Labour’s Purple Book was a lacklustre as their post-Blair preformance.

[Bristolhibby]

I can understand why people are attached to their property, because it doesn’t always reflect the size of their income throughout their life but also their choices.
Back in the mid 80’s when I was an apprentice I worked with a couple of joiners who had worked together for about 15 years. They both made exactly the same money but were in very different situations at about 35 years of age. One was on his fourth house after buying his first house and renovating them selling for bigger every time. He had not been many holidays over the years but wasn’t that bothered and was chuffed with his house. The other lived in his council house and intended to continue doing so. He was always going pretty good holiday (for the mid 80’s) and he also sounded like he had a better social life. Two guys making different decisions and neither right or wrong in my opinion but I can imagine that as they are probably (no idea what they are up to now) hitting retirement I could see why the one who bought the property would be p’ed off if his house had to be sold to pay for his care costs while the other guy got the same care costs for free.



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Is there not a way of “gifting” your house to your kids and then living in perpetuity rent free? That way when you get old and senile there is no property to be forced to sell?

J

[danhibees1875]

Is there not a way of “gifting” your house to your kids and then living in perpetuity rent free? That way when you get old and senile there is no property to be forced to sell?

J

I think there's meant to be procedures in place to stop that happening or else the local authority would consider that house part of your estate for care costs.

I could be wrong, but a brief Google suggests you'd have to be quite above board with how you went about passing your property on as any attempt to do so purely to avoid social care costs isn't allowed.

I think the only option would be for you to pay the market rate in rent, presumably something which would only really be an option if you could release the cash by selling your house to your child at its full value. :dunno:

[greenlex]

For the reasons you mention, this is going to be a very tough problem to fix and it's not that I don't have sympathy for the guy who "did the right thing".

Say for example the guy who lived the high life and lived in the council house reaches 65 and drops dead having never spent a day in hospital in his life or taken any medication. Over a lifetime, he's probably paid more than enough in tax to cover what he has received. Then imagine the other guy having several operations throughout his 50s, being on medication every day from 60, reaching about 85 where he has to go into a home but as his dementia develops his heart and lungs are strong so he hangs on needing significantly expensive resident care for more than a decade.

The nation needs to have a serious conversation about how we pay for the increasing numbers of people who are falling into the latter category. This care has to be paid for by someone and it is a significant cost (especially now we've got our country back delivering fairer wages for British workers to have British hands to wipe British *****).

I don't have the answer and I accept that in your example it appears totally unfair on those who have been responsible. You have to accept the consequences of your actions though, and you have to accept that occasionally you are only a quirk of government away from your hard work and good decisions being wiped out.

The politicians alone cannot be trusted to fix this, and MA's idea is an excellent one. I'm convinced there is plenty to go round in this country (and throughout the world) but we're struggling to make it happen right now and we're being forced to think that constitutional change, or reducing immigration, or taxing the rich etc etc is the answer to all of our questions. We need to think about it at a higher level and people can then plan accordingly.
Is that not what the NHS is in part? Its really all about funding. It’s almost as if National insurance isn’t covering this cost and needs to be increased across the board to cover it. Both people in Ozzys scenario would then pay similar amounts and receive similar benefits. Everyone would. There if you need it. There isn’t a political will to make I happen in any party.

[heretoday]

The gist of the plan is to increase productivity by removing the free flow of cheap foreign labour and force companies to invest in machinery and automation instead.

The UK’s productivity level has flat lined for years so as a general economic principle thats not a bad one. Higher productivity makes the nation richer. And neither is the desire to reduce the number of economically inactive members of your society a bad one. The reasons they are currently inactive will be many and varied of course but it doesn’t seem a ridiculous concept that at least some of them can be encouraged back into the workforce.

But as ever the devil is in the detail and of course the laws of unintended consequences will be prevalent...as soon as I see governments deciding what industries qualify for certain relaxing of conditions and others not I’m rather wary!

However listening to some companies complaining that they might not be viable because they no longer have a freely available pool of low cost, low skilled labour to prop up their business model does make me wonder if those really are business models that we want to be perpetuating anyway? Maybe if they need to start paying higher wages to attract employees then that might not be a bad thing?

Good post. Similarly, the wringing of hands over the care industry not being able to survive without cheap foreign labour rather belies the low priority society has tended to put on social care. I'm prepared to go along with the Tories if they are genuine in an attempt to upgrade the whole sector.

[JeMeSouviens]

Good post. Similarly, the wringing of hands over the care industry not being able to survive without cheap foreign labour rather belies the low priority society has tended to put on social care. I'm prepared to go along with the Tories if they are genuine in an attempt to upgrade the whole sector.

Could "if" do any more heavy lifting in this sentence?

[lapsedhibee]

Could "if" do any more heavy lifting in this sentence?

" … they are genuine … " has already broken its back.

[Cataplana]

Good post. Similarly, the wringing of hands over the care industry not being able to survive without cheap foreign labour rather belies the low priority society has tended to put on social care. I'm prepared to go along with the Tories if they are genuine in an attempt to upgrade the whole sector.

The foreign labour is preferable to someone with a sense of entitlement who won't pull their weight. This is a recurring theme, people born into the benefits culture here don't want the work.

[heretoday]

Could "if" do any more heavy lifting in this sentence?

Fingers crossed!

[Smartie]

Is that not what the NHS is in part? Its really all about funding. It’s almost as if National insurance isn’t covering this cost and needs to be increased across the board to cover it. Both people in Ozzys scenario would then pay similar amounts and receive similar benefits. Everyone would. There if you need it. There isn’t a political will to make I happen in any party.

The NHS takes care of the “health” part, but I don’t think we, as a population, have got our heads around the complexities and expense involved in the elderly care part. We all (the royal we) expect that to be taken care of by somebody else whilst we pass on property worth a fortune to our relatives.

It all needs paid for, and we will vote in numbers for those who continue to promise that it will be paid for by someone else.

As I say, I don’t have the answers, but I think we - as a nation - need to acknowledge a problem and have an adult discussion about it.

Bizarrely, it is the only thing proposed by UKIP and the Brexit Party that I have ever agreed with.

[grunt]

i'm prepared to go along with the tories if they are genuine in an attempt to upgrade the whole sector.
lol.

[RyeSloan]

The NHS takes care of the “health” part, but I don’t think we, as a population, have got our heads around the complexities and expense involved in the elderly care part. We all (the royal we) expect that to be taken care of by somebody else whilst we pass on property worth a fortune to our relatives.

It all needs paid for, and we will vote in numbers for those who continue to promise that it will be paid for by someone else.

As I say, I don’t have the answers, but I think we - as a nation - need to acknowledge a problem and have an adult discussion about it.

Bizarrely, it is the only thing proposed by UKIP and the Brexit Party that I have ever agreed with.

It’s just not likely that the politicians will actually deal with the subject though...too easy just to forever kick the can down the road.

Look at what happened to the Tories when they tried to float a plan with May. Immediate claims of dementia tax etc even although her plan was actually a cap on what people would pay rather than the current situation (down south) where there in no limit until the house is sold and the cupboard is as good as bare.

In Scotland we seem to have punted the problem to local government who appear to be struggling big time (another big increase in council tax, this time the maximum allowed)

I’ve posted before about Baumol’s cost disease and we see it in action year after year, compounded by the demographic effect. But still the issue is kicked down the road.

There is of course some real issues around making people pay and the prospect of those that work hard and save being hammered for their savings when those that do the opposite get care anyway being balanced against the need to make sure everyone is looked after no matter their financial well being.

I’m minded to think some sort of mandatory insurance policy approach might work but any answer is always going to be difficult to implement and design correctly / fairly. Hence why, of course, the politicos stay well clear!

[Curried]

Some superb work being done in Dusseldorf today:-)

http://www.bta.bg/en/gallery/showImage/?image=6506323

[Mr Grieves]

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1233094625809838080?s=20

The UK's negotiating mandate not going down well with business groups.

[Peevemor]

Scary stuff. To think that people in positions close to power are coming out with stuff like this...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/01/treasury-adviser-farming-and-fisheries-are-not-important?CMP=share_btn_fb

[mjhibby]

[QUOTE=JeMeSouviens;6090321]And Liz Truss and Kwasi Karteng. I suspect we'll look back in 20 years at the wasteland these idiots create in the same way people in the 40s and 50s revisited Mein Kampf* and realised all that stuff about lebensraum wasn't just idle nonsense after all.


Couldnt agree more. The most morally bankrupt and dishonest govt in British political history. History will not look kindly on them. Pity so many folk fell for the con.

[CloudSquall]

https://mobile.twitter.com/Peston/status/1234551404129398785

Some info on the value of this potential trade deal with the US, the value being talked about basically sums to a "rounding error" in relation to the size of the UK economy.

Then you have the potential loss in GDP that may come with a piss poor deal with the EU and the words creek and no paddle spring to mind..

[CloudSquall]

Scary stuff. To think that people in positions close to power are coming out with stuff like this...

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/mar/01/treasury-adviser-farming-and-fisheries-are-not-important?CMP=share_btn_fb

Will be interesting to see the political fall out in Scotland with this given the numbers of fisherman who were pro Leave.

[Callum_62]

Brexits done, close thread?

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[Just Alf]

Brexits done, close thread?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using TapatalkWe don't leave until the end of the year, actual 'Brexit' has only just started and will go on until we actually seperate from the EU. How I see it anyways....

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[Colr]

We don't leave until the end of the year, actual 'Brexit' has only just started and will go on until we actually seperate from the EU. How I see it anyways....

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Good job we’re getting rid of all those people immigrant nurses and doctors from the bloody EU!!

[Just Alf]

Good job we’re getting rid of all those people immigrant nurses and doctors from the bloody EU!!Indeed!

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[Mr Grieves]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-51762243

Worth every penny...

[Callum_62]

We don't leave until the end of the year, actual 'Brexit' has only just started and will go on until we actually seperate from the EU. How I see it anyways....

Sent from my SM-G935F using TapatalkBut Boris said..... [emoji57]

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[Bostonhibby]

But Boris said..... [emoji57]

Sent from my VOG-L29 using TapatalkBound to be true then, he's a lot less visible now that he's got Brexit done. I guess it's because things are running much better now.

The £350m a week for the NHS couldn't have come at a better time.

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[lapsedhibee]

Neil Dickson of the NHS on Newsnight just now saying that shortages of masks for staff to use in the coronavirus crisis have been slightly alleviated by getting masks which were stockpiled for a No-Deal Brexit. Why would an excess of masks be needed for Brexit? Is there something we haven't been told? Shocked if so.

[Frankhfc]

Neil Dickson of the NHS on Newsnight just now saying that shortages of masks for staff to use in the coronavirus crisis have been slightly alleviated by getting masks which were stockpiled for a No-Deal Brexit. Why would an excess of masks be needed for Brexit? Is there something we haven't been told? Shocked if so.

Probably supply chain issues rather than a no deal virus breaking out :greengrin.

[Ozyhibby]

After this recession which I think we will recover from pretty quickly once lock down finishes and we all get back to work, I wonder what appetite the public will have for another one at the turn of the year if we don’t get a brexit deal?


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[lapsedhibee]

Probably supply chain issues rather than a no deal virus breaking out :greengrin.

Though some government lickspittle was on the radiobox the other day saying that one of the main reasons for the current shortage was that most of that type of equipment comes from China, who've been a bit hampered recently. As we know UK will have an utterly brilliant deal with China as soon as we've fully left the EU. Shirley, then, there would be no need to stockpile goods coming from China in preparation for Brexit? Sometimes it seems almost as if not all government messaging quite adds up.

[Glory Lurker]

Neil Dickson of the NHS on Newsnight just now saying that shortages of masks for staff to use in the coronavirus crisis have been slightly alleviated by getting masks which were stockpiled for a No-Deal Brexit. Why would an excess of masks be needed for Brexit? Is there something we haven't been told? Shocked if so.

I got cornered by a guy in the pub last summer and he was wittering on about how he thought Brexit presented serious risks. I put it down to him just being a no-pals drunken slaver, but if what you're saying here is correct then maybe he was on to something?

[Callum_62]

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/13/brexit-will-mean-checks-on-goods-crossing-irish-sea-government-admits?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true

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[Mr Grieves]

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2020/may/13/brexit-will-mean-checks-on-goods-crossing-irish-sea-government-admits?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true

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Johnson is a pathological liar.

[wpj]

I work for NHS and know for a fact there are warehouses in UK stockpiled with medicine. Clearly not PPE though.

[JeMeSouviens]

Dogged, isn't he? :greengrin

https://twitter.com/DavidDavisMP/status/1262376382094544896

[lapsedhibee]

Dogged, isn't he? :greengrin

https://twitter.com/DavidDavisMP/status/1262376382094544896

:faf: What a card!

[Mr Grieves]

That's the immigration bill passed ending freedom of movement. I feel sad.

[grunt]

Why did the chlorinated chicken cross the Atlantic? To get to UK supermarkets.

Despite every Tory Brexit politician claiming that Brexit won't result in lower food standards and "We'll never allow chlorinated chicken here", today the Government quietly rolled over and allowed the US the right to sell chlorinated chicken and hormone fed beef in UK shops. Thanks Brexit peeps.

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chlorinated-chicken-british-markets-us-trade-deal-trump-a9548431.html


The government is set to open British markets to food produced to lower US welfare standards as part of its planned trade deal with Donald Trump (http://independent.co.uk/topic/donald-trump). Downing Street on Thursday refused to stand by an earlier pledge to keep so-called "chlorinated chicken" off UK shelves, in the first sign of the government folding under pressure from American trade negotiators

[Mr Grieves]

Why did the chlorinated chicken cross the Atlantic? To get to UK supermarkets.Despite every Tory Brexit politician claiming that Brexit won't result in lower food standards and "We'll never allow chlorinated chicken here", today the Government quietly rolled over and allowed the US the right to sell chlorinated chicken and hormone fed beef in UK shops. Thanks Brexit peeps. https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/chlorinated-chicken-british-markets-us-trade-deal-trump-a9548431.htmlTheir 2019 manifesto pledged "not compromise on our high environmental protection, animal welfare and food standards".It would be embarrassing for Johnson not to get a trade deal with the US and he'll lie, cut standards and farmers thrown to the lions to achieve it.

[DaveF]

Their 2019 manifesto pledged "not compromise on our high environmental protection, animal welfare and food standards".It would be embarrassing for Johnson not to get a trade deal with the US and he'll lie, cut standards and farmers thrown to the lions to achieve it.

Barnier ripping into UK saying we are backtracking in all aspects of the negotiations.

[Mr Grieves]

Barnier ripping into UK saying we are backtracking in all aspects of the negotiations.

Yes, backtracking on agreements made in the political declaration with the EU while bending over and preparing to be shafted by the good ol' US of A.

[grunt]

Their 2019 manifesto pledged "not compromise on our high environmental protection, animal welfare and food standards".It would be embarrassing for Johnson not to get a trade deal with the US and he'll lie, cut standards and farmers thrown to the lions to achieve it.Yes, after you mentioned it I looked the manifesto up as well. I think we're in big, big trouble.

[Callum_62]

Yes, after you mentioned it I looked the manifesto up as well. I think we're in big, big trouble.Thing is it will probably just be brushed off as remoaners being remoaners again



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