Brexit - What Now.

[Peevemor]

Three women - Joanna Cherry, Gina Miller, and Lady Hale - have exposed Boris Johnson for the sleekit liar he is and there is something very poetic about that.

Hail Hale!

[Moulin Yarns]

Wow! It turns out the British Constitution is worth the paper it’s not written on after all.

[Pretty Boy]

Let's be honest seeing a group of over privileged Tories get their comeuppance will never not be funny. Johnson and his ilk have spent their entire lives being nurtured to believe it's their birthright to do what they want, when they want.

It's like Portillo in 97 all over again. But better.

[Moulin Yarns]

PARAGRAPH 61 OF THE JUDGMENT: "It is impossible for us to conclude on the evidence... that there was any reason - let alone a good reason - to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament for five weeks."

[lapsedhibee]

PARAGRAPH 61 OF THE JUDGMENT: "It is impossible for us to conclude on the evidence... that there was any reason - let alone a good reason - to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament for five weeks."
Well short of saying what the Court of Session said, which was that Johnson prorogued with the specific - bad - intention of stymying parliament.

[Peevemor]

Well short of saying what the Court of Session said, which was that Johnson prorogued with the specific - bad - intention of stymying parliament.

The statement is pretty damning


"No justification for taking action with such an extreme effect has been put before the court. The only evidence of why it was taken is the memorandum from Nikki da Costa of 15th August. This explains why holding the Queen's Speech to open a new session of Parliament on 14th October would be desirable. It does not explain why it was necessary to bring Parliamentary business to a halt for five weeks before that, when the normal period necessary to prepare for the Queen's Speech is four to six days. It does not discuss the difference between prorogation and recess. It does not discuss the impact of prorogation on the special procedures for scrutinising the delegated legislation necessary to achieve an orderly withdrawal from the European Union, with or without a withdrawal agreement, on 31st October. It does not discuss what Parliamentary time would be needed to secure Parliamentary approval for any new withdrawal agreement, as required by section 13 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018.


The Court is bound to conclude, therefore, that the decision to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament was unlawful because it had the effect of frustrating or preventing the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions without reasonable justification."

[lapsedhibee]

The statement is pretty damning


"No justification for taking action with such an extreme effect has been put before the court. The only evidence of why it was taken is the memorandum from Nikki da Costa of 15th August. This explains why holding the Queen's Speech to open a new session of Parliament on 14th October would be desirable. It does not explain why it was necessary to bring Parliamentary business to a halt for five weeks before that, when the normal period necessary to prepare for the Queen's Speech is four to six days. It does not discuss the difference between prorogation and recess. It does not discuss the impact of prorogation on the special procedures for scrutinising the delegated legislation necessary to achieve an orderly withdrawal from the European Union, with or without a withdrawal agreement, on 31st October. It does not discuss what Parliamentary time would be needed to secure Parliamentary approval for any new withdrawal agreement, as required by section 13 of the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018.


The Court is bound to conclude, therefore, that the decision to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament was unlawful because it had the effect of frustrating or preventing the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions without reasonable justification."
It is damning, but nothing in there backs up the daft tabloid headline about lying to her maj. We don't know whether he gave any reason at all to the queen, never mind a false one. The Court of Session judged Johnson acted in bad faith. This judgement is very slightly diluted. (Amusing that English commentators are calling it astonishing, as if CoS hadn't happened.:bitchy:)

[Moulin Yarns]

It is damning, but nothing in there backs up the daft tabloid headline about lying to her maj. We don't know whether he gave any reason at all to the queen, never mind a false one. The Court of Session judged Johnson acted in bad faith. This judgement is very slightly diluted. (Amusing that English commentators are calling it astonishing, as if CoS hadn't happened.:bitchy:)

TO BE CLEAR: The Supreme Court upheld the Court of Session in Edinburgh's judgment, which said that Boris Johnson has "an improper purpose" when he advised The Queen to prorogue Parliament for five weeks. That means the Scottish court's judgement that he misled The Queen STANDS.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Surely his resignation has to be immediate. Can he be forced to resign ?

I not sure the Tories would vote against him if Corbyn raised a vote of no confidence.

[Northernhibee]

There’s a reason Farage went after Cummings. Boris is his useful idiot and will survive.

[lord bunberry]

I can’t concentrate on anything the people being interviewed are saying. That person standing behind them with the boris outfit is hilarious.

[lord bunberry]

22552

[stoneyburn hibs]

22552

😁

[CloudSquall]

Will be interesting to see if we hear anything from Buckingham / Balmoral, I'd imagine "ma'm" would be quite furious with how this has played out..

[CloudSquall]

Parliament resuming tomorrow at 11.30am.

[Northernhibee]

Parliament resuming tomorrow at 11.30am.

In time for PMQs.

[southsider]

Will be interesting to see if we hear anything from Buckingham / Balmoral, I'd imagine "ma'm" would be quite furious with how this has played out..

Lying to wee Liz ? To the Tower with him and off with his head !

[Northernhibee]

Boris 0-11 Parliament.

I’m really glad he’s not got Hibs up next.

[Bristolhibby]

The highest court in the land had judged that the advice he gave to the Queen (for whatever reason) was unlawful.

Even Bojo can't brass-neck this one out, can he?

Yes he can. 3 years ago he would resign. We are Post Trump, post Brexit, post truth. You can do anything now and bar killing someone, get away with it.

He should go BTW.

J

[lapsedhibee]

TO BE CLEAR: The Supreme Court upheld the Court of Session in Edinburgh's judgment, which said that Boris Johnson has "an improper purpose" when he advised The Queen to prorogue Parliament for five weeks. That means the Scottish court's judgement that he misled The Queen STANDS.

Did the Court of Session say that Johnson had lied to or misled the queen? I've missed that.
I thought it went:
Prorogue parliament please ma'am, from bla bla to bla bla.
Ok.
The end.

[Mr Grieves]

22552

Lol

[danhibees1875]

Boris 0-11 Parliament.

I’m really glad he’s not got Hibs up next.

This parliament are in the sort of perilous position that only a trip to Easter road can solve. :agree:

A welcomed ruling just for the "GIRUY" to Boris, even if I'm not entirely sure what it means in the grand scheme of things. Parliament go back to having no idea and making no headway with Brexit/stopping Brexit rather than making the same lack of progress by not sitting. :dunno:

He won't resign, but he might offer a GE to let the public decide if he should be ousted for it all. Then when the opposition deny it claim that he's just received a vote of confidence from the opposition benches and he can continue leading the lack of progress.

[Jim44]

In time for PMQs.

I think they said there would be no PMQs. Apparently he is entitled to three days prior notice.

[Ozyhibby]

This parliament are in the sort of perilous position that only a trip to Easter road can solve. :agree:

A welcomed ruling just for the "GIRUY" to Boris, even if I'm not entirely sure what it means in the grand scheme of things. Parliament go back to having no idea and making no headway with Brexit/stopping Brexit rather than making the same lack of progress by not sitting. :dunno:

He won't resign, but he might offer a GE to let the public decide if he should be ousted for it all. Then when the opposition deny it claim that he's just received a vote of confidence from the opposition benches and he can continue leading the lack of progress.

Not an informed guess but I think parliament will no confidence vote him this week and bring in a new PM. Maybe Corbyn but also maybe Clarke or Harmon.
Benefit for Corbyn even if it’s not him is he will not be running against an incumbent and will be able to time next election.
What will happen to brexit, who knows?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190924/b90787f7135bbcd01325a31cbe0e8ef7.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Callum_62]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190924/b90787f7135bbcd01325a31cbe0e8ef7.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkOh the irony

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[degenerated]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190924/b90787f7135bbcd01325a31cbe0e8ef7.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The revolution starts after closing time, at Wetherspoons

[Moulin Yarns]

I see that a spider is now a symbol of power for the people.


It's on its way to Westminster. https://t.co/TZTxzyi3Q2

[Moulin Yarns]

"If you have any information on this pair, who cruelly deceived a 93-year-old lady, do please contact Westminster police station." https://t.co/Q11aLDJge8

[Moulin Yarns]

He can’t have it both ways - either prorogation was nothing to do with Brexit as he claimed, OR having prorogation declared unlawful frustrates Brexit. It can’t be both.

[Moulin Yarns]

Boris Johnson speaks:

"Obviously this is a verdict that we will respect and we respect the judicial process.

"I have to say that I strongly disagree with what the justices have found. I don't think that it's right but we will go ahead and of course Parliament will come back."

[southsider]

Boris Johnson speaks:

"Obviously this is a verdict that we will respect and we respect the judicial process.

"I have to say that I strongly disagree with what the justices have found. I don't think that it's right but we will go ahead and of course Parliament will come back."
He is a serial liar who only tells the truth when he is stuck for a lie. Sacked from 2 jobs for lying now lied to HoC and too wee Liz.
Resign now if u had a shred of decency.

[Hibernia&Alba]

He is a serial liar who only tells the truth when he is stuck for a lie. Sacked from 2 jobs for lying now lied to HoC and too wee Liz.
Resign now if u had a shred of decency.

Surely having been found guilty of breaking the law for his own political agenda, he can be removed? Resignation seems to be a thing of the past for politicians; it seems there is no shame any longer. Remember when politicians would be forced to resign for cheating on their wives, let alone lying to parliament and head of state. He simply must go; there should be no way back for a prime minister found guilty of breaking the law.

[heretoday]

No apology from Johnson. Any other PM would have resigned by now, even Thatcher.

[Moulin Yarns]

Why is Murdo Fraser not Celebrating ?
Afterall The Queens 11 won today.

[GlesgaeHibby]

No apology from Johnson. Any other PM would have resigned by now, even Thatcher.

He is utterly shameless.

Surely there have to be consequences for breaking the law? How on earth can he be allowed to just soldier on?

[JeMeSouviens]

The utter state of this bollocks ...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/24/bow-judgment-would-choose-supreme-court-ocracy-constitutional/

:rolleyes:

[Hibernia&Alba]

Even Farage says Bozo should resign.

[Jim44]

I couldn’t believe that Trump could possibly win the Presidency of the USA and wing his way as far as he has. I am shocked that unelected Johnson is emulating him and brassing out a disgraceful existence as the leader of our country. I am quite openly in favour of Scotland remaining in the UK but I know that, if the Tory circus prevails, I will have reluctantly been converted to Scottish Independence.

[Jack Hackett]

The utter state of this bollocks ...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/24/bow-judgment-would-choose-supreme-court-ocracy-constitutional/

:rolleyes:

Pay wall... but the gist is clear from the first sentence. There's going to be a lot of lemon sucking tonight. Can't wait to read the red top headlines tomorrow 😂

[Sir David Gray]

I don't hold such strong anti-Brexit views as I suspect many people on here do but Boris Johnson's position as Prime Minister is now untenable and he must resign.

There is no coming back from that.

[Hibernia&Alba]

The utter state of this bollocks ...

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2019/09/24/bow-judgment-would-choose-supreme-court-ocracy-constitutional/

:rolleyes:

The Torygraph :faf:

The Conservative paper which claims to be defenders of tradition and law and order, now says the unanimous verdict of the Supreme Court should be defied. Some intellectual contortionists there.

[Jack Hackett]

I don't hold such strong anti-Brexit views as I suspect many people on here do but Boris Johnson's position as Prime Minister is now untenable and he must resign.

There is no coming back from that.

Politicians no longer look upon utter humiliation as grounds for resignation

[Hibernia&Alba]

Politicians no longer look upon utter humiliation as grounds for resignation

Nor even breaking the law.

[Jack Hackett]

The Torygraph :faf:

The Conservative paper which claims to be defenders of tradition and law and order, now says the unanimous verdict of the Supreme Court should be defied. Some intellectual contortionists there.

I've literally just had an email extolling the advantages of subscribing to the rag, with a list of 4 articles I can enjoy right now with a month free. All of them are spitting out broken teeth over the judgement, including the one linked by JeMeSouviens above.

Today has been a very good day :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

I've literally just had an email extolling the advantages of subscribing to the rag, with a list of 4 articles I can enjoy right now with a month free. All of them are spitting out broken teeth over the judgement, including the one linked by JeMeSouviens above.

Today has been a very good day :greengrin

Social media is a real hoot tonight. Some of these gammons are going to give themselves an aneurysm.

[weecounty hibby]

So just how is that taking back of our own laws thing going for you Johnson you lying *******? And good to see that the Scottish courts found you out first. Independence for England is surely the only way forward now. Please 🤞🙏

[Hibernia&Alba]

Social media is a real hoot tonight. Some of these gammons are going to give themselves an aneurysm.

I'm glad I don't do social media. I can well imagine the nutters you come across.

[weecounty hibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190924/b90787f7135bbcd01325a31cbe0e8ef7.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I completely agree with them. I imagine I would be really pissed of if England was continually telling us what we can and can't do up here. Oh, hold on.............

[G B Young]

Nor even breaking the law.

There was no law there to be broken until the prorogation was declared unlawful today. Johnson acted on the advice of the attorney general, the government's leading legal advisor, that it was legal - a view shared by a number of other leading legal figures. At the end of the day, it came down to a matter of interpretation and with no precedent to rely on Geoffrey Cox gave what he must have been confident was sound legal advice to the PM. Can Johnson really be held culpable for that? If anyone is likely to step down it will presumably be Cox, but even then I'd suggest that would harsh.

Personally I'm sorry to see Parliament recalled. The daily whingefest hasn't been missed its return and when all's said and done today's 'constitutional earthquake' will change nothing in terms of the Brexit stalemate. There isn't suddenly going to be a majority for a way out, even if Johnson were to arrange a deal, and he will once again try to use to his electoral advantage by maintaining a parliament v the people approach.

[Moulin Yarns]

Spiders are awesome. https://t.co/lthhhGcVUK

[grunt]

Personally I'm sorry to see Parliament recalled. The daily whingefest hasn't been missed its return and when all's said and done today's 'constitutional earthquake' will change nothing in terms of the Brexit stalemate. There isn't suddenly going to be a majority for a way out, even if Johnson were to arrange a deal, and he will once again try to use to his electoral advantage by maintaining a parliament v the people approach.

Yeah quite right. Who wants parliamentary democracy anyway?

[Callum_62]

There was no law there to be broken until the prorogation was declared unlawful today. Johnson acted on the advice of the attorney general, the government's leading legal advisor, that it was legal - a view shared by a number of other leading legal figures. At the end of the day, it came down to a matter of interpretation and with no precedent to rely on Geoffrey Cox gave what he must have been confident was sound legal advice to the PM. Can Johnson really be held culpable for that? If anyone is likely to step down it will presumably be Cox, but even then I'd suggest that would harsh.

Personally I'm sorry to see Parliament recalled. The daily whingefest hasn't been missed its return and when all's said and done today's 'constitutional earthquake' will change nothing in terms of the Brexit stalemate. There isn't suddenly going to be a majority for a way out, even if Johnson were to arrange a deal, and he will once again try to use to his electoral advantage by maintaining a parliament v the people approach.Ofcourse he can be held accountable - he knew exactly the reason why he was shutting down parliment and it was nothing to do with what he said - anyone could see that.

Prorogation timescales:

Between 1999 and 2017, the mean average*was about 8 calendar days. The median average is around 5 calendar days

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Hibbyradge]

There was no law there to be broken until the prorogation was declared unlawful today. Johnson acted on the advice of the attorney general, the government's leading legal advisor, that it was legal - a view shared by a number of other leading legal figures. At the end of the day, it came down to a matter of interpretation and with no precedent to rely on Geoffrey Cox gave what he must have been confident was sound legal advice to the PM. Can Johnson really be held culpable for that? If anyone is likely to step down it will presumably be Cox, but even then I'd suggest that would harsh.

Personally I'm sorry to see Parliament recalled. The daily whingefest hasn't been missed its return and when all's said and done today's 'constitutional earthquake' will change nothing in terms of the Brexit stalemate. There isn't suddenly going to be a majority for a way out, even if Johnson were to arrange a deal, and he will once again try to use to his electoral advantage by maintaining a parliament v the people approach.

I didn't know that the legal advice had been published.

[NAE NOOKIE]

I couldn’t believe that Trump could possibly win the Presidency of the USA and wing his way as far as he has. I am shocked that unelected Johnson is emulating him and brassing out a disgraceful existence as the leader of our country. I am quite openly in favour of Scotland remaining in the UK but I know that, if the Tory circus prevails, I will have reluctantly been converted to Scottish Independence.

In all likelihood a view beginning to be shared by quite a few folk who were against independence until recently. Nobody can be smug about that to be honest, many remain voters who took that option honestly and in good faith must feel utterly betrayed when they look at the absolute shambles the UK has become politically and socially since 2014. The UK folk voted to remain part of is worlds away from the UK they were promised, or even the one they had in 2014.

The question has long since stopped being 'how can Scotland possibly be a better country on its own without the UK?' and is fast becoming 'how in the name of all that's holy could we possibly be worse?' …. in that scenario the uncertainty over how we would cope post independence which put off many people may still be there, but that uncertainty surely has less of an impact when viewed through the prism of the car crash the UK has become and the crushing uncertainty of what Brexit and especially a no deal Brexit could mean for us as UK citizens.

[lord bunberry]

I didn't know that the legal advice had been published.
It hasn’t and one of the results of today’s decision will mean it most likely will. To say parliament resuming will achieve nothing is a view only shared by tories.

[G B Young]

I didn't know that the legal advice had been published.

Cox's advice was leaked to Sky yesterday:

https://news.sky.com/story/exclusive-pm-was-advised-by-attorney-general-suspension-was-lawful-11818599

[lapsedhibee]

There was no law there to be broken until the prorogation was declared unlawful today. Johnson acted on the advice of the attorney general, the government's leading legal advisor, that it was legal - a view shared by a number of other leading legal figures. At the end of the day, it came down to a matter of interpretation and with no precedent to rely on Geoffrey Cox gave what he must have been confident was sound legal advice to the PM. Can Johnson really be held culpable for that?
Correct. To describe Johnson as having "broken the law" for a decision taken, effectively, before the law was even made is just another example of the ridiculous hyperbole inflicting current political discourse.

[Ozyhibby]

Correct. To describe Johnson as having "broken the law" for a decision taken, effectively, before the law was even made is just another example of the ridiculous hyperbole inflicting current political discourse.

The law wasn’t just made yesterday. The court does not make laws. Only parliament can do that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Callum_62]

The law wasn’t just made yesterday. The court does not make laws. Only parliament can do that.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkBingo.

Johnson was probably advised on it ofcourse but they absolutely knew what they were doing was pushing the boundaries

They still havnt explained why they needed 6 weeks or so shut down......

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Cataplana]

If 11 judges interpret the law one way and no judges interpret the law the other way, what are the chances that that eleven are wrong, and the zero is right?

If we have that little confidence in our judiciary that we need to question yesterday's decision, then we have to worry about the stability of our system.

Criminal psychologists would have a field day with anyone trying to say the government acted within the law.

[lapsedhibee]

The law wasn’t just made yesterday. The court does not make laws. Only parliament can do that.


No. Parliament makes statute law. Judges make case law.

[lapsedhibee]

If 11 judges interpret the law one way and no judges interpret the law the other way, what are the chances that that eleven are wrong, and the zero is right?

If we have that little confidence in our judiciary that we need to question yesterday's decision, then we have to worry about the stability of our system.

Criminal psychologists would have a field day with anyone trying to say the government acted within the law.

Johnson is a massive **** but if you're implying here that he's a criminal then you're way off.

Might be a criminal if he gave £100k public money to someone he was ****ging.:wink:

[Cataplana]

Johnson is a massive **** but if you're implying here that he's a criminal then you're way off.

Might be a criminal if he gave £100k public money to someone he was ****ging.:wink:

😂

[mjhibby]

Let's be honest seeing a group of over privileged Tories get their comeuppance will never not be funny. Johnson and his ilk have spent their entire lives being nurtured to believe it's their birthright to do what they want, when they want.

It's like Portillo in 97 all over again. But bEetter.

Exactly. Johnson and Cummings forgot that they can't use these ridiculous people v parliament soundbites on points of law. He was always going to lose as he never put forward a legitimate reason to justify his actions as if he did he would have committed perjury. They are still trying to make it about Brexit even though there was no mention of it in the judgement and buffoon Boris insisted of course it wasn't about Brexit.Even amber Rudd of all people said he can't have it both ways. I don't think it changes much apart from he will forever be remembered as the pm who broke the law. If and when we pass Oct 31 without a deal or a no deal Brexit then he is cooked. Brilliant watching the Tories squirm and wriggle yesterday. Let the giant wee man strut his stuff again. Bercow is s legend.

[Moulin Yarns]

Johnson is a massive **** but if you're implying here that he's a criminal then you're way off.

Might be a criminal if he gave £100k public money to someone he was ****ging.:wink:

Is that not called 'soliciting'? :wink:

[G B Young]

The law wasn’t just made yesterday. The court does not make laws. Only parliament can do that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

So what law did the government break?

[Cataplana]

So what law did the government break?

Tge judgement yesterday said in detail what they had done wrong. They acted illegally, and that is the same as braking the law, in my book.

Don't despair, they get to have an election campaign on who rules the country now, the government, or the courts.

Its quite obvious that for some people, rather than accept they've broken the rules, the answer is to change the rules.

[mjhibby]

Although these numbers look good for the Tories with the 46% leave relatively concentrated and the 48% remain (would actually be over 50% once SNP/Plaid added) split wide open, the electoral map may come to the rescue.

Seemingly of the Lib's top 50 targets, 40+ are Tory held and only 7 Labour. If people are smart (yeah, yeah, I know) and vote Lib in the Lib/Tory and Lab in the Lab/Tory marginals, then there should be another hung parliament. It's going to be a ****** nailbiter though whereas a moderate Labour would be absolutely romping it (imo).

Don't think it will be a nailbiter. Johnson will fall short by at least twenty to thirty partly because of the binned 21 mps seats where he will lose a few of them and polling has found that in the marginals a good few will not vote on Brexit lines. If we get an extension then Brexit may not be the total reason for folks voting intention.

[mjhibby]

Is that not called 'soliciting'? :wink:

Btw does she not have the look of a lady of Ill repute. Rather attractive as well. At least his charm works with the ladies

[Hiber-nation]

Hezza slaughtering Rees-Mogg on BBC. Always nice to hear :greengrin

[southsider]

Hezza slaughtering Rees-Mogg on BBC. Always nice to hear :greengrin

By questioning the Supreme Courts judgement the way he did is he in contempt of court ?

[Bostonhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190924/b90787f7135bbcd01325a31cbe0e8ef7.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkJust overheard 2 angry pensioners sorting it all out in the barbers chair.

I kid you not, it's actually the French who are apparently to blame for all of this and the sooner we get them out of England the better. One even felt they had been " gunning for British businesses like Thomas Cook for years"

Imagine trying to explain the post brexit collapse in the pound and it's effect there?

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Cataplana]

Just overheard 2 angry pensioners sorting it all out in the barbers chair.

I kid you not, it's actually the French who are apparently to blame for all of this and the sooner we get them out of England the better. One even felt they had been " gunning for British businesses like Thomas Cook for years"

Imagine trying to explain the post brexit collapse in the pound and it's effect there?

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

You have just explained why Boris will win by a landslide.

[Bostonhibby]

You have just explained why Boris will win by a landslide.The view seemed to be that Boris can do what he wants, hopefully the next prorogation isn't to prevent a debate on cutting pensions because we've run out of money[emoji6]

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Lendo]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190924/b90787f7135bbcd01325a31cbe0e8ef7.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I follow this one. It has to be a ScotNat on the wind up. It's just too perfect.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Just overheard 2 angry pensioners sorting it all out in the barbers chair.

I kid you not, it's actually the French who are apparently to blame for all of this and the sooner we get them out of England the better. One even felt they had been " gunning for British businesses like Thomas Cook for years"

Imagine trying to explain the post brexit collapse in the pound and it's effect there?

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

I'm in a pub in Carlisle and it seems to be quite a popular topic of conversation, I'm listening in from the sidelines and some of the stuff being said is taking ****wittery to extremes! 😲

[Bostonhibby]

I'm in a pub in Carlisle and it seems to be quite a popular topic of conversation, I'm listening in from the sidelines and some of the stuff being said is taking ****wittery to extremes! [emoji44]Recently witnessed a guy's head about to explode when he attempted to explain to a like minded character how blocking just the one type of Brexit is undemocratic but prorogating in the way it was done to achieve a single end is the right thing to do.

The recipient of the shared wisdom said we could do this if we want to do anything else that "they" don't agree with.

I'm guessing the definition of they is changeable depending on what random groups fancy doing next.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Peevemor]

I'm looking forward to see the reception Bojo gets when he enters the Commons this afternoon.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I'm looking forward to see the reception Bojo gets when he enters the Commons this afternoon.

Not sure Kris and his Mrs deserve that! 😁

[Cataplana]

Recently witnessed a guy's head about to explode when he attempted to explain to a like minded character how blocking just the one type of Brexit is undemocratic but prorogating in the way it was done to achieve a single end is the right thing to do.

The recipient of the shared wisdom said we could do this if we want to do anything else that "they" don't agree with.

I'm guessing the definition of they is changeable depending on what random groups fancy doing next.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

Why are we surprised? Its not like this sort of thing hasnt happened before.

[Bostonhibby]

Why are we surprised? Its not like this sort of thing hasnt happened before.I'm not surprised, living where I do it's shooting fish in a barrel finding absurdity by the day and it's not all one way.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190925/92acfe280242d02beeb217dddb90fd02.jpg

Getting very tight according to this poll.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190925/92acfe280242d02beeb217dddb90fd02.jpg

Getting very tight according to this poll.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Any idea of how it translates into seats?

[CloudSquall]

Polls are all over the place, some showing the Tories miles in front while others showing a 4 way battle royale..

[Cataplana]

I'm not surprised, living where I do it's shooting fish in a barrel finding absurdity by the day and it's not all one way.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

As a Scot, I'd be watching my back if I was you. First they came for the Poles.....

[Cataplana]

Well the gloves are off, if the Attorney General is calling compatriots cowards it looks like this is going to get messy.

[Bostonhibby]

As a Scot, I'd be watching my back if I was you. First they came for the Poles.....Least of my worries[emoji16]

An erseholes an ersehole whatever part of the country they come from in my experience.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Cataplana]

Least of my worries[emoji16]

An erseholes an ersehole whatever part of the country they come from in my experience.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

True.

[heretoday]

Even Farage says Bozo should resign.

Actually, this morning, Farage was talking sense for once.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

Polls are all over the place

That's why they want a Brexit! 😁

[Hibernia&Alba]

That's why they want a Brexit! 😁

:top marks

"They come over here, stealing our elections...."

[Bostonhibby]

:top marks

"They come over here, stealing our elections...."And doing all the work and paying all the tax and NI that funds all our benefits.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Hibernia&Alba]

And doing all the work and paying all the tax and NI that funds all our benefits.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

Don't talk sense man. What's the point in having foreigners here, if not to demonise and scapegoat them? You are giving me facts, when I want pernicious xenophobic scare stories :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

Don't talk sense man. What's the point in having foreigners here, if not to demonise and scapegoat them? You are giving me facts, when I want pernicious xenophobic scare stories :greengrinHave you heard the one about the brexiteer who wanted the first exit date to be after his summer holiday in case it affected lager prices in Spain?

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Mibbes Aye]

All happening now. The story is that Boris will be in the Commons shortly and offer to put himself to a vote of no confidence. The plan is that Corbyn will decline and that the opposition parties can’t agree on a compromise PM.

[Fife-Hibee]

All happening now. The story is that Boris will be in the Commons shortly and offer to put himself to a vote of no confidence. The plan is that Corbyn will decline and that the opposition parties can’t agree on a compromise PM.

Decline? Or just not able to because of the Lib Dems?

[Mibbes Aye]

Decline? Or just not able to because of the Lib Dems?

Corbyn can ask for a vote of no confidence regardless, no?

[Mibbes Aye]

Watching it live and what a shambles Corbyn was. If that was holding government to account then god save us.

I remember watching the likes of Robin Cook, Gordon Brown and Tony Blair absolutely skewering the Tories 1995-1997.

Johnson ripping the pish out of Corbyn about an election is embarrassing.

[weecounty hibby]

Corbyn is actually taking a kicking from the most inept, cheating, lying ******* of a PM ever. He is absolutely pathetic. GE is going to be a disaster with Corbyn in charge, the Tories will get a majority government. So sad

[CloudSquall]

A prime minister begging for a no confidence vote against him and an opposition refusing to do it, has this ever happened anywhere on the planet?

[G B Young]

Watching it live and what a shambles Corbyn was. If that was holding government to account then god save us.

I remember watching the likes of Robin Cook, Gordon Brown and Tony Blair absolutely skewering the Tories 1995-1997.

Johnson ripping the pish out of Corbyn about an election is embarrassing.

Corbyn blew it big style, but then what's new? Having managed to bring the shambolic Labour Party conference to an end on something of a high following the Supreme Court ruling this was his chance to really twist the knife. Johnson, however, picked the right moment to dig out a defiant and relatively barnstorming speech and leave Corbyn floundering.

OK, from one shambles to another it's time to keep an eye on the Hibees...

[Mibbes Aye]

Corbyn blew it big style, but then what's new? Having managed to bring the shambolic Labour Party conference to an end on something of a high following the Supreme Court ruling this was his chance to really twist the knife. Johnson, however, picked the right moment to dig out a defiant and relatively barnstorming speech and leave Corbyn floundering.

OK, from one shambles to another it's time to keep an eye on the Hibees...

God help us when the awful Anna Soubry asks better questions than the official Leader of the Opposition.

Dominic Grieve asking pertinent questions now but it does feel like there is a lack of a skewer here. Parliament shouldn’t be a court but for goodness sake, the questions should be sharper and shorter.

As I type, Angela Eagle’s question just reinforces that.

[Callum_62]

I assume Johnson has shown remorse for the prorogation farce?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Glory Lurker]

Chat that Tories are going to seek 3 day recess for their conference. Shameless.

[The Harp Awakes]

I assume Johnson has shown remorse for the prorogation farce?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

Ha ha what do you think? Watched some of it tonight. He didn't even come close to apologising. On the contrary, he was aggressive, blaming it all on the opposition, repeatedly saying it was him and the people against parliament and the establishment.

He has no shame and thinks he's above the law.

[Ozyhibby]

God help us when the awful Anna Soubry asks better questions than the official Leader of the Opposition.

Dominic Grieve asking pertinent questions now but it does feel like there is a lack of a skewer here. Parliament shouldn’t be a court but for goodness sake, the questions should be sharper and shorter.

As I type, Angela Eagle’s question just reinforces that.

You will never skewer Johnson just like Trump can’t be skewered in America. They don’t operate that way. Nothing that anyone says has an affect on them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bristolhibby]

Ha ha what do you think? Watched some of it tonight. He didn't even come close to apologising. On the contrary, he was aggressive, blaming it all on the opposition, repeatedly saying it was him and the people against parliament and the establishment.

He has no shame and thinks he's above the law.

Yip, he doubled down. Reeks of Cummings.

And yet we are still better together? With this farce?!?

J

[SHODAN]

Polls are all over the place, some showing the Tories miles in front while others showing a 4 way battle royale..

Based on the youth vote.

If we don't bother, Tory majority. If we do, hung parliament with balance of power against Johnson if the Liberal Torycrats decide not to go with their masters for once.

[Bristolhibby]

Based on the youth vote.

If we don't bother, Tory majority. If we do, hung parliament with balance of power against Johnson if the Liberal Torycrats decide not to go with their masters for once.

Got to get the young un’s out.

J

[heretoday]

Ian Blackford was good.

Hibees bounce back!

[Pretty Boy]

Just watched some of the 'highlights' from yesterday and I'm not really surprised at Johnsons lack of remorse or, when pressed about his rhetoric and their relation to death threats, empathy.

I'd love to offer some erudite analysis but it's easier just to say the man is a total and utter ****. If this is the man that a majority of people in England seem to want to put their faith in then it just hammers home why it's time for Scotland to follow our own path.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Just watched some of the 'highlights' from yesterday and I'm not really surprised at Johnsons lack of remorse or, when pressed about his rhetoric and their relation to death threats, empathy.

I'd love to offer some erudite analysis but it's easier just to say the man is a total and utter ****. If this is the man that a majority of people in England seem to want to put their faith in then it just hammers home why it's time for Scotland to follow our own path.

Don't think I've ever been more appalled watching scenes from the HoC. Johnson is a disgusting serial liar devoid of any moral compass, yet swathes of Tory MPs and English voters love the guy.

Time for Sturgeon to get off the fence, use her mandate and call indeyref2. SNP need to move away from being an anti Brexit party trying to save England from the mess they have created and focus on delivering independence for scotland.

[weecounty hibby]

Don't think I've ever been more appalled watching scenes from the HoC. Johnson is a disgusting serial liar devoid of any moral compass, yet swathes of Tory MPs and English voters love the guy.

Time for Sturgeon to get off the fence, use her mandate and call indeyref2. SNP need to move away from being an anti Brexit party trying to save England from the mess they have created and focus on delivering independence for scotland.
England cannot be saved from Brexit or saved from lurching further to the right. It truly is time that our country was independent and the people living in Scotland, with Scotland's interest at the forefront of all they do are the people who govern Scotland

[The Harp Awakes]

Just watched some of the 'highlights' from yesterday and I'm not really surprised at Johnsons lack of remorse or, when pressed about his rhetoric and their relation to death threats, empathy.

I'd love to offer some erudite analysis but it's easier just to say the man is a total and utter ****. If this is the man that a majority of people in England seem to want to put their faith in then it just hammers home why it's time for Scotland to follow our own path.

Boris = a gift to the Yes movement

[Callum_62]

Boris = a gift to the Yes movementCan't see him as anything else bar this

Scotland is already fairly diverged from England but Johnson is making that a chasm

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

Just watched some of the 'highlights' from yesterday and I'm not really surprised at Johnsons lack of remorse or, when pressed about his rhetoric and their relation to death threats, empathy.

I'd love to offer some erudite analysis but it's easier just to say the man is a total and utter ****. If this is the man that a majority of people in England seem to want to put their faith in then it just hammers home why it's time for Scotland to follow our own path.It's an interesting one, around where I am there's 2 discernible changes in my opinion.

I think there's a shift amongst marginal brexit voters, not the racist/aged/hard of thinking, there's a definite rise in those who say they want to have a say on what is ultimately agreed because they feel they were denied detail or misled at the time.

The second group is the average Tory type who really are disgruntled with Boris in particular, at least that's what they're saying.

Whether that's representative or not, who knows, but there's a shift in what is a Tory safe seat traditionally on these issues.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[southsider]

Boris = a gift to the Yes movement

To win the GE all Labour have to do is repeat ad nauseam ‘ He lied to the Queen’ If he did lie or not if it is repeated often enough it becomes ‘fact’.

[Hibrandenburg]

Just watched some of the 'highlights' from yesterday and I'm not really surprised at Johnsons lack of remorse or, when pressed about his rhetoric and their relation to death threats, empathy.

I'd love to offer some erudite analysis but it's easier just to say the man is a total and utter ****. If this is the man that a majority of people in England seem to want to put their faith in then it just hammers home why it's time for Scotland to follow our own path.

I keep hearing from Brexiteers that they are tired of listening to remoaners who are trying to sabotage Brexit, what that translates to is that they're tired of hearing the truth, but the truth doesn't matter to them. Put quite simply, when challenged to annunciate their reasoning they fall down and resort to name calling, chanting of mantra, threats and stamping of feet, because they don't have a clear point to make, because they don't understand a) the law b) the constitution and c) the treaties of union. They are the brainwashed masses. The more intelligent among them like Johnson and Farage have been called common-law radicals by more polite legal professionals, but let's face it the angry mob are more or less quite simply fascist muppets who are by and large too dim to recognise themselves for what they are. They were lead by the nose and now they are baying for blood, but they don't actually fully understand why and that makes them even angrier.

[Hibrandenburg]

To win the GE all Labour have to do is repeat ad nauseam ‘ He lied to the Queen’ If he did lie or not if it is repeated often enough it becomes ‘fact’.

But who is going to publish it? Brexiteers are unlikely to read the newspapers that would and the papers they do read whilst moving their lips certainly won't.

[danhibees1875]

But who is going to publish it? Brexiteers are unlikely to read the newspapers that would and the papers they do read whilst moving their lips certainly won't.

That can't be real... :confused: :faf:

[Bostonhibby]

But who is going to publish it? Brexiteers are unlikely to read the newspapers that would and the papers they do read whilst moving their lips certainly won't.The grey squirrel is a foreign migrant to these shores as well. We need to take back control.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Smartie]

The grey squirrel is a foreign migrant to these shores as well. We need to take back control.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

I have it on good authority that the migrant grey squirrel's wife is a hook-handed muslamic paedophile who is selling drugs to all of our kids in order to supplement the cushy benefits she gets for her 200 offspring baby squirrels in her luxury pad, also paid for by us.

All whilst our brave troops are hungry and homeless, or something.

You couldn't make it up!

[Bostonhibby]

I have it on good authority that the migrant grey squirrel's wife is a hook-handed muslamic paedophile who is selling drugs to all of our kids in order to supplement the cushy benefits she gets for her 200 offspring baby squirrels in her luxury pad, also paid for by us.

All whilst our brave troops are hungry and homeless, or something.

You couldn't make it up!You could, there's billionaire press Baron's who know how to play this game as there's a willing audience.

And don't get me started on that nasty Scottish (indigenous) red squirrel.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[WeeRussell]

It's frightening that so many can still defend/support Boris when you see how he conducts himself. The fact that he begun by saying the supreme court were wrong meant there was little point in pushing for an apology throughout last night.

But the way he deflects ANY question or point using whataboutery or just slagging off whoever asked the question is scary. I get its politics and a question is rarely answered in a straightforward manner but f*** me it's ridiculous the way he goes on.

e.g. woman asks him re brexit propaganda finding its way onto primary school screens and whether he had anything to do with it. Boris doesn't deny any wrongdoing by him or his party.. but instead takes the words "primary school" and says isn't it great how much money they're planning on giving primary schools.

He's a tory c***.

[lapsedhibee]

You could, there's billionaire press Baron's who know how to play this game as there's a willing audience.

And don't get me started on that nasty Scottish (indigenous) red squirrel.

:tsk tsk: Red hair comes from Scandinavia. Immigrant!

[lapsedhibee]

He's a tory c***.

Misleading. With him it's not really to do with being a Tory. He's just a massive, massive ****.

[Bostonhibby]

:tsk tsk: Red hair comes from Scandinavia. Immigrant!De Pfeffels, the lot of them, off with their heads.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[WeeRussell]

Misleading. With him it's not really to do with being a Tory. He's just a massive, massive ****.

You may well be right to be honest but I stand by my statement :greengrin

At least Tory c***s in the past have managed to come across slightly intellectual or have something about them that you can see why they manage to appeal/convince certain populations.

He's just a blundering, chortling... c***.

[Peevemor]

The Tories just lost another vote 289-306 (parliamentary recess for their conference).

[Bostonhibby]

The Tories just lost another vote 289-306 (parliamentary recess for their conference).Jeez, even this Hibs team managed one recent win on penalties.

Heckingbottom for PM

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

The Tories just lost another vote 289-306 (parliamentary recess for their conference).

Does that make the massive ****'s record 0-7?

[southsider]

Is Boris an undercover Labourite ? He has lost his majority in HoC, lost every vote in the House. Lied to the Queen. Spends 10 minutes with D.Trump and before he can say Howdy he was impeached. Or maybe he could just change his name to Jonah Johnston.

[Hibernia&Alba]

The grey squirrel is a foreign migrant to these shores as well. We need to take back control.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk


I have it on good authority that the migrant grey squirrel's wife is a hook-handed muslamic paedophile who is selling drugs to all of our kids in order to supplement the cushy benefits she gets for her 200 offspring baby squirrels in her luxury pad, also paid for by us.

All whilst our brave troops are hungry and homeless, or something.

You couldn't make it up!

:hilarious

:top marks

[Moulin Yarns]

I have it on good authority that the migrant grey squirrel's wife is a hook-handed muslamic paedophile who is selling drugs to all of our kids in order to supplement the cushy benefits she gets for her 200 offspring baby squirrels in her luxury pad, also paid for by us.

All whilst our brave troops are hungry and homeless, or something.

You couldn't make it up!

The worst thing about the grey squirrel is that they are carriers of the pox*.



Note, it only affects the indigenous red squirrel population.

[Moulin Yarns]

#BREAKING: African envoys urge UK government to abide by court ruling; warn that the UK could be suspended from the Commonwealth should the government continue to subvert democracy. #Brexit

[Moulin Yarns]

Boris Johnson has now lost 7 of his first 7 commons votes, the first PM in history to do so. He takes the title away from previous record holder Boris Johnson, who lost 6 of his first 6.

[Cataplana]

Boris Johnson has now lost 7 of his first 7 commons votes, the first PM in history to do so. He takes the title away from previous record holder Boris Johnson, who lost 6 of his first 6.

There's only one man who can possibly beat that record.

[heretoday]

Theresa May must be enjoying this.
More and more MPs are talking about taking her deal after all.
They could have done that months ago and saved us a lot of misery.
It isn't a fantastic deal but who's to say it couldn't be tweaked a bit in the future.

[Smartie]

Theresa May must be enjoying this.
More and more MPs are talking about taking her deal after all.
They could have done that months ago and saved us a lot of misery.
It isn't a fantastic deal but who's to say it couldn't be tweaked a bit in the future.

It's a terrible deal, but it seems to have increasing merit all the time.

Nobody will be happy with it but nobody will be too outraged by it either so it seems to be some sort of horrific compromise that might actually do the job.

I've thought a bit about Theresa May recently too. She's been a laughing stock for a couple of years but as soon as she's out of the firing line and someone else is having to have a go, she looks acceptable by comparison.

[Hibernia&Alba]

There's only one man who can possibly beat that record.

Boris is at the wheel....

[ballengeich]

Theresa May must be enjoying this.
More and more MPs are talking about taking her deal after all.
They could have done that months ago and saved us a lot of misery.
It isn't a fantastic deal but who's to say it couldn't be tweaked a bit in the future.

At some point the EU may get fed up of continual amendments to the exit date and say accept May's deal or leave without one.

[Moulin Yarns]

At some point the EU may get fed up of continual amendments to the exit date and say accept May's deal or leave without one.

Someone I was with this morning said that seems to be gaining traction.

[Cataplana]

Good stuff from Paul Mason on Newsnight yesterday. Highlighting that the super rich are openly dismantling the apparatus of democracy, to create a borderless world in which they can come and go as they please.

Trying to avoid Godwin's Law is pretty difficult here. The Queen is even older than Hindenburg was.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190926/5c5ced6128f8978a2d7137e8b7b32d2e.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190926/71f61487f78e27baaa05181c7cef9645.jpg
John Major explains how he think Johnson is going to get a no deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

It's a terrible deal, but it seems to have increasing merit all the time.

Nobody will be happy with it but nobody will be too outraged by it either so it seems to be some sort of horrific compromise that might actually do the job.

I've thought a bit about Theresa May recently too. She's been a laughing stock for a couple of years but as soon as she's out of the firing line and someone else is having to have a go, she looks acceptable by comparison.Boris could adopt it, change the font a bit, deliver a mantra about peace in our time / fighting them on the beaches and deliver a brexit then ignore every word afterwards.

I think he'll struggle to deal with the squirrels though.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[G B Young]

Theresa May must be enjoying this.
More and more MPs are talking about taking her deal after all.
They could have done that months ago and saved us a lot of misery.
It isn't a fantastic deal but who's to say it couldn't be tweaked a bit in the future.

The deal itself was just a first, but necessary staging post on the road to what would have been many more months/years of negotiations in terms of exiting the EU. There was endless tweaking to come. However, parliament was so set against endorsing ANY deal (yet at the same time holding their hands up in horror at the prospect of no deal) that it was never going to pass. Labour were set against voting against anything a Tory government brought to the table, the Lib Dems felt that one people's vote wasn't enough and were set on holding another and the SNP were set against voting for anything which edged Brexit closer.

Nothing May's successor brings back will have a chance of passing either, largely for the same narrow-minded reasons listed above. Hence why his sledgehammer tactics to get the bl**dy thing over the line command a lot of support outwith the Westminster bubble.

[Colr]

Good stuff from Paul Mason on Newsnight yesterday. Highlighting that the super rich are openly dismantling the apparatus of democracy, to create a borderless world in which they can come and go as they please.

Trying to avoid Godwin's Law is pretty difficult here. The Queen is even older than Hindenburg was.

Rees Mogg’s dad’s book The Sovereign Individual covered this strategy years ago.

It’s so badly written I could only get half way through it, though.

[Smartie]

Boris could adopt it, change the font a bit, deliver a mantra about peace in our time / fighting them on the beaches and deliver a brexit then ignore every word afterwards.

I think he'll struggle to deal with the squirrels though.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

I'm concerned about the squirrels, but it seems you're not allowed to say that these days. I'm no racist - I have squirrel friends - but it's just the sheer bloody numbers of them that I object to.

Boris will sort them. Just as long as the metropolitan elite don't bring him down, that is.

I mean, you couldn't make it up!

[Bostonhibby]

I'm concerned about the squirrels, but it seems you're not allowed to say that these days. I'm no racist - I have squirrel friends - but it's just the sheer bloody numbers of them that I object to.

Boris will sort them. Just as long as the metropolitan elite don't bring him down, that is.

I mean, you couldn't make it up!I think we're splitting hares here to be honest, one man's rodent is another man's rhododendron as Boris might say.

Post brexit there'll be an abundance of traditional british squirrels to fill the gaps in the supermarket meat shelves, not to mention the marvellous headgear that can be hand crafted by previously unemployed brexiteers for the export market.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

I think we're splitting hares here to be honest, one man's rodent is another man's rhododendron as Boris might say.

Post brexit there'll be an abundance of traditional british squirrels to fill the gaps in the supermarket meat shelves, not to mention the marvellous headgear that can be hand crafted by previously unemployed brexiteers for the export market.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

https://honest-food.net/squirrel-stew-recipe-paprika/

[Bostonhibby]

https://honest-food.net/squirrel-stew-recipe-paprika/All very informative but a wee bit avant garde for hard core brexit land where the heads typically bitten off and the contents are sucked out.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[CloudSquall]

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-27/exclusive-snp-set-to-back-corbyn-as-caretaker-prime-minister-writes-robert-peston/

Robert Peston making a big thing about the SNP now willing to accept Corbyn as a temporary PM to avoid no deal.

It would need the backing of the independents or at least some of them if true blue Swinson would stomach the move to back Corbyn, but I can't see that happening, struggling to think of another candidate that the opposition could all back in his place..

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190927/76e44d4a596635f2daea8e391f001827.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190927/ccf429fe567890dad00a987bcf4b132b.jpg

Interesting polls for Labour.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Future17]

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-27/exclusive-snp-set-to-back-corbyn-as-caretaker-prime-minister-writes-robert-peston/

Robert Peston making a big thing about the SNP now willing to accept Corbyn as a temporary PM to avoid no deal.

It would need the backing of the independents or at least some of them if true blue Swinson would stomach the move to back Corbyn, but I can't see that happening, struggling to think of another candidate that the opposition could all back in his place..

My wife asked me yesterday who I would vote for if a GE was held tomorrow and, after some thought, I said SNP. If the SNP were to back Corbyn, that might change...although the lack of credible alternatives is clearly a problem.

[Ozyhibby]

My wife asked me yesterday who I would vote for if a GE was held tomorrow and, after some thought, I said SNP. If the SNP were to back Corbyn, that might change...although the lack of credible alternatives is clearly a problem.

It would not be a case of backing Corbyn. He would have next to no power apart from doing what the opposition parties want with brexit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cataplana]

The deal itself was just a first, but necessary staging post on the road to what would have been many more months/years of negotiations in terms of exiting the EU. There was endless tweaking to come. However, parliament was so set against endorsing ANY deal (yet at the same time holding their hands up in horror at the prospect of no deal) that it was never going to pass. Labour were set against voting against anything a Tory government brought to the table, the Lib Dems felt that one people's vote wasn't enough and were set on holding another and the SNP were set against voting for anything which edged Brexit closer.

Nothing May's successor brings back will have a chance of passing either, largely for the same narrow-minded reasons listed above. Hence why his sledgehammer tactics to get the bl**dy thing over the line command a lot of support outwith the Westminster bubble.

If he wanted to get the bloody thing over the line, all he had to do was support Mrs May's deal.

His actions have always pointed to someone who wanted No Deal.

These are not sledgehammer tactics, this is dismantling our democracy.

[Jack]

The deal itself was just a first, but necessary staging post on the road to what would have been many more months/years of negotiations in terms of exiting the EU. There was endless tweaking to come. However, parliament was so set against endorsing ANY deal (yet at the same time holding their hands up in horror at the prospect of no deal) that it was never going to pass. Labour were set against voting against anything a Tory government brought to the table, the Lib Dems felt that one people's vote wasn't enough and were set on holding another and the SNP were set against voting for anything which edged Brexit closer.

Nothing May's successor brings back will have a chance of passing either, largely for the same narrow-minded reasons listed above. Hence why his sledgehammer tactics to get the bl**dy thing over the line command a lot of support outwith the Westminster bubble.

Perhaps the other parties may have been a bit more flexible had they been involved in constructive negotiations in the first place rather than being invited to sham talks with so many red lines as a last ditched attempt to get the deal though.

This is a Tory muck up from the start to where we are now and will continue to be a Tory muck up for as long as it continues.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190927/76e44d4a596635f2daea8e391f001827.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190927/ccf429fe567890dad00a987bcf4b132b.jpg

Interesting polls for Labour.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The seethe from brexit supporters seen in the second poll, fingers crossed but unlikely to happen.

[heretoday]

It's a terrible deal, but it seems to have increasing merit all the time.

Nobody will be happy with it but nobody will be too outraged by it either so it seems to be some sort of horrific compromise that might actually do the job.

I've thought a bit about Theresa May recently too. She's been a laughing stock for a couple of years but as soon as she's out of the firing line and someone else is having to have a go, she looks acceptable by comparison.

She looks like someone with integrity. Not much of that in evidence now.

[lapsedhibee]

Perhaps the other parties may have been a bit more flexible had they been involved in constructive negotiations in the first place rather than being invited to sham talks with so many red lines as a last ditched attempt to get the deal though.

This is a Tory muck up from the start to where we are now and will continue to be a Tory muck up for as long as it continues.

:agree: Was never about the country, will of the people, or anything other than what's good for the Tory party. Now it's not even that. It's about one member of the Tory party, a massive ****, and one non-member, a Genius, plus a few hangers on.

[Colr]

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-09-27/exclusive-snp-set-to-back-corbyn-as-caretaker-prime-minister-writes-robert-peston/

Robert Peston making a big thing about the SNP now willing to accept Corbyn as a temporary PM to avoid no deal.

It would need the backing of the independents or at least some of them if true blue Swinson would stomach the move to back Corbyn, but I can't see that happening, struggling to think of another candidate that the opposition could all back in his place..

Surely not? Another Labour leader maybe but not Corbyn. Him and his coterie are toxic.

[Colr]

It would not be a case of backing Corbyn. He would have next to no power apart from doing what the opposition parties want with brexit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Too risky. Once you put him and his entryists in you will not get them out.

[Ozyhibby]

Too risky. Once you put him and his entryists in you will not get them out.

Nobody has the ability to stay in No. 10 just now without support of multiple parties. That’s the whole point. He would only be there until such times as the SNP/Lib Dems want him to be there. Which would likely only be until an extension is secured. Less than a month.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Colr]

Nobody has the ability to stay in No. 10 just now without support of multiple parties. That’s the whole point. He would only be there until such times as the SNP/Lib Dems want him to be there. Which would likely only be until an extension is secured. Less than a month.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Don’t kid yourself. Recent events have shown the British constitution to be less robust than we have assumed.

[Ozyhibby]

Don’t kid yourself. Recent events have shown the British constitution to be less robust than we have assumed.

I’d still be very shocked if Corbyn could manage to get anything done in Downing Street when Johnson and May have been paralysed there.
He would be there long enough to deliver that letter and then call an election.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

Terry Christian on twitter.

17.4 million people voted leave in the referendum - yet 3 years on - none of them can even say 1. What problems in their lives will be solved by leaving the EU 2. How leaving the EU will improve their lives. Share this vision with the other 48 million of us who didn't vote leave

[Moulin Yarns]

Have we reached the bit where ‘17.4 million people voted for riots’ yet?

[G B Young]

Terry Christian on twitter.

17.4 million people voted leave in the referendum - yet 3 years on - none of them can even say 1. What problems in their lives will be solved by leaving the EU 2. How leaving the EU will improve their lives. Share this vision with the other 48 million of us who didn't vote leave

How does he know that without having asked all 17.4 million of them? And more to the point where is it stated that when you exercise your democratic right to vote in such an event that you have to state why you voted the way you did? I voted remain but this ongoing mantra from the metropolitan elite that all those who voted leave must be thick English northerners is nauseating. All the c**p about how those who voted leave were 'lied to'. As if they were so gullible they lapped up everything MPs told them. In fact the reason so many voted leave was because they totally distrusted politicians.

All this condescending guff from the likes of Terry Christian does is further cement the conviction among leave voters that their vote is being ignored because the establishment want things just to carry on as before.

As I saw it well put once, the remoaner mantra appears to be: 'The people have spoken. The people must be wrong.'

[Moulin Yarns]

How does he know that without having asked all 17.4 million of them? And more to the point where is it stated that when you exercise your democratic right to vote in such an event that you have to state why you voted the way you did? I voted remain but this ongoing mantra from the metropolitan elite that all those who voted leave must be thick English northerners is nauseating. All the c**p about how those who voted leave were 'lied to'. As if they were so gullible they lapped up everything MPs told them. In fact the reason so many voted leave was because they totally distrusted politicians.

All this condescending guff from the likes of Terry Christian does is further cement the conviction among leave voters that their vote is being ignored because the establishment want things just to carry on as before.

As I saw it well put once, the remoaner mantra appears to be: 'The people have spoken. The people must be wrong.'

I almost accept that you have a point, except it is the establishment that are pushing Brexit

[ballengeich]

How does he know that without having asked all 17.4 million of them? And more to the point where is it stated that when you exercise your democratic right to vote in such an event that you have to state why you voted the way you did? I voted remain but this ongoing mantra from the metropolitan elite that all those who voted leave must be thick English northerners is nauseating. All the c**p about how those who voted leave were 'lied to'. As if they were so gullible they lapped up everything MPs told them. In fact the reason so many voted leave was because they totally distrusted politicians.

All this condescending guff from the likes of Terry Christian does is further cement the conviction among leave voters that their vote is being ignored because the establishment want things just to carry on as before.

As I saw it well put once, the remoaner mantra appears to be: 'The people have spoken. The people must be wrong.'

I've considerable sympathy for your criticism of the attitude of remainers to leave voters and have had some disagreements with acquaintances over the matter. There's been no attempt to understand why people who voted no because of dissatisfaction with current arrangements did so, or to re-arrange society to aid areas which have done badly in recent years.

One thing I was fairly confident of after the referendum result was announced was that there would be a second referendum, as the establishment didn't want to leave and EU precedent on referenda is to try again, with a slightly different arrangement on offer.

Looking at the situation now I think there should be a second referendum for several reasons. At the time of the first one there was no clear vision of what the revised relationship with Europe would be and with such a narrow majority for leaving the electorate should be asked to approve what has actually been negotiated. Since the first vote at least a couple of million people have left the voter role and a similar number have joined, so the current electors should get a chance to vote on what has actually been negotiated. Recent opinion polls have indicated that a majority would now be in favour of remaining so to go ahead with a fundamental change which is quite likely to be against the will of the people is wrong (I'm surprised that no remain supporters seem to be making this point).

The suggestion that we must leave by a particular date regardless of the consequences is preposterous. It's like going into an estate agent and saying that because I'm unhappy with aspects of my present house I'm going to buy another one by the end of the month and I don't care what condition it's in or what the price is.

[grunt]

There's been no attempt to understand why people who voted no because of dissatisfaction with current arrangements did so, or to re-arrange society to aid areas which have done badly in recent years.Brexit will make this worse, much worse. There will be much less tax raised and therefore central funding for social spend will be cut significantly.



Recent opinion polls have indicated that a majority would now be in favour of remaining so to go ahead with a fundamental change which is quite likely to be against the will of the people is wrong (I'm surprised that no remain supporters seem to be making this point).You've not been listening. This has been said by many of us for the last two years.

[ballengeich]

You've not been listening. This has been said by many of us for the last two years.


Have public figures being making that point?

[grunt]

Have public figures being making that point?
Sorry I have no idea, to be honest. Everyone that I speak to has been saying it for what seems to be forever, but it demonstrates to me two things - first, that I'm living in my own remain bubble, and second, that it seems to support the notion that the BBC and the major MSM are suppressing remain voices. Only today I listened to BBC World at One, where they were discussing the language used in WM on Wednesday. So who did they have on to discuss it - **** Lance Forman, Brexit MEP!!! I'm so sick f the BBC Bias.

[weecounty hibby]

I almost accept that you have a point, except it is the establishment that are pushing Brexit

This is the but that completely amazes me. So all of a sudden Jacob Rees-Mogg and Boris Johnson are now anti establishment. Add to that the Daily Mail and the Telegraph and you want us to believe that it's not the establishment driving Brexit. Aye right then!!

[lapsedhibee]

Have public figures being making that point?

They have, though not relentlessly. Two counter arguments I have heard from Brexiters on TV are
(1) that it's disgracefully disrespecting the dead, and
(2) that it's undemocratic to have a second referendum before you've implemented the first.

Both these counter arguments seem to me not so much weak as utterly WTF.

[ballengeich]

This is the but that completely amazes me. So all of a sudden Jacob Rees-Mogg and Boris Johnson are now anti establishment. Add to that the Daily Mail and the Telegraph and you want us to believe that it's not the establishment driving Brexit. Aye right then!!

What this shows is that "the establishment" doesn't exist as a consistent coherent group. The phrase is an excuse not to analyse. People with wealth and power will seek to retain that, but they disagree among themselves just as much as any other sub-section of society about the environment and policies which will achieve their personal goals.

[Jack Hackett]

They have, though not relentlessly. Two counter arguments I have heard from Brexiters on TV are
(1) that it's disgracefully disrespecting the dead, and
(2) that it's undemocratic to have a second referendum before you've implemented the first.

Both these counter arguments seem to me not so much weak as utterly WTF.

WTF indeed. You can't reconsider blowing your brains out until you've blown your brains out first.

[Mr Grieves]

So that's Boris Johnson's sister and Philip Hammond suggesting that BJ may be pushing for a no deal brexit so his billionaire backers make **** loads from shorting the pound.

[lapsedhibee]

So that's Boris Johnson's sister and Philip Hammond suggesting that BJ may be pushing for a no deal brexit so his billionaire backers make **** loads from shorting the pound.

:agree: Loadsamoney to be made out of chaos of one sort or another, including a civil war, which we're probably not very many steps away from now. If only there were characters in government trying to avert chaos, but there aren't. Watched Hancock, for example, being interviewed on the tellybox last night and he was asked "Are you frightened of Dominic Cummings?" He looked terrified to have to even answer the question. Utter jelly of a 'man'. Best hope might be that Johnson's whole family puts enough pressure on him to stand down - if the chaosists lose their charismatic :faf: leader quite soon, they might yet be stymied.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

So that's Boris Johnson's sister and Philip Hammond suggesting that BJ may be pushing for a no deal brexit so his billionaire backers make **** loads from shorting the pound.

The next series of Deep State could have the Brexit shenanigans as a story.

[G B Young]

I almost accept that you have a point, except it is the establishment that are pushing Brexit

Is that really true? The likes of Gina Miller or Dominic Grieve are from as elite a background as Johnson or Rees-Mogg yet are hailed as spokesmen for the true 'people'. Nobody's claiming Johnson and Rees-Mogg are anything but Etonian toffs (Rees-Mogg in particular pretty much wears that as a badge of honour), but it's not them or the little Englanders I'm referring to when it comes to those whose voices are being ignored. It's the millions of ordinary voters who were promised by the overwhelming majority of MPs (more than 80% of whom stood on a mandate of respecting the Brexit referendum) that their vote would count. Instead we have seen Westminster tie up the whole process in parliamentary plots and complex procedures. What are they supposed to make of this? What respect should they have for the wealthy, southern-based and largely Oxbridge-educated leaders of the 'people's vote' campaign when in these voters' eyes, the people's vote has already been held? By rights these voters should be able to turn to Corbyn as the leader of a supposed 'people's party' yet his clear as mud Brexit 'policy' gives them nothing to hold on to. Little wonder the simple clarity of Johnson's 'we're leaving do or die' message resonates with so many of these seemingly forgotten voters.

[Ozyhibby]

Is that really true? The likes of Gina Miller or Dominic Grieve are from as elite a background as Johnson or Rees-Mogg yet are hailed as spokesmen for the true 'people'. Nobody's claiming Johnson and Rees-Mogg are anything but Etonian toffs (Rees-Mogg in particular pretty much wears that as a badge of honour), but it's not them or the little Englanders I'm referring to when it comes to those whose voices are being ignored. It's the millions of ordinary voters who were promised by the overwhelming majority of MPs (more than 80% of whom stood on a mandate of respecting the Brexit referendum) that their vote would count. Instead we have seen Westminster tie up the whole process in parliamentary plots and complex procedures. What are they supposed to make of this? What respect should they have for the wealthy, southern-based and largely Oxbridge-educated leaders of the 'people's vote' campaign when in these voters' eyes, the people's vote has already been held? By rights these voters should be able to turn to Corbyn as the leader of a supposed 'people's party' yet his clear as mud Brexit 'policy' gives them nothing to hold on to. Little wonder the simple clarity of Johnson's 'we're leaving do or die' message resonates with so many of these seemingly forgotten voters.

I think we can safely conclude that politics is dominated by well educated posh people. It’s the same for the entertainment industry, journalism, banking and the law. Basically, a good education goes a long way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Colr]

I’d still be very shocked if Corbyn could manage to get anything done in Downing Street when Johnson and May have been paralysed there.
He would be there long enough to deliver that letter and then call an election.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Worth having a look at Andrew Neil’s tweets on the already expanding definition of an interim PM role (I’d post a link but don’t know how) suggesting the ‘interim’ being in power for around a year!!!

Terrifyingly undemocratic!!

[G B Young]

Worth having a look at Andrew Neil’s tweets on the already expanding definition of an interim PM role (I’d post a link but don’t know how) suggesting the ‘interim’ being in power for around a year!!!

Terrifyingly undemocratic!!

https://twitter.com/afneil?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctw gr%5Eauthor

Indeed. And potential extreme hyporcrisy from Corbyn (were the unthinkable to happen and he weasels his way into No 10 even on a temporary basis) to berate Johnson for being an 'unelected PM'.

[Jack]

I think we can safely conclude that politics is dominated by well educated posh people. It’s the same for the entertainment industry, journalism, banking and the law. Basically, a good education goes a long way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Family goes a long way too.

[Ozyhibby]

Family goes a long way too.

More important than the school in my opinion. Kid comes home to a house where homework is encouraged and they are helped etc will do better when that is not there for them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[lapsedhibee]

the simple clarity of Johnson's 'we're leaving do or die' message
I don't find this simple or clear. What does it mean? Is he going to kill himself if the UK doesn't leave on 31 October? :pray:

[Cataplana]

I don't find this simple or clear. What does it mean? Is he going to kill himself if the UK doesn't leave on 31 October? :pray:

No, he's going to kill all of his opponents.

[Glory Lurker]

Is that really true? The likes of Gina Miller or Dominic Grieve are from as elite a background as Johnson or Rees-Mogg yet are hailed as spokesmen for the true 'people'. Nobody's claiming Johnson and Rees-Mogg are anything but Etonian toffs (Rees-Mogg in particular pretty much wears that as a badge of honour), but it's not them or the little Englanders I'm referring to when it comes to those whose voices are being ignored. It's the millions of ordinary voters who were promised by the overwhelming majority of MPs (more than 80% of whom stood on a mandate of respecting the Brexit referendum) that their vote would count. Instead we have seen Westminster tie up the whole process in parliamentary plots and complex procedures. What are they supposed to make of this? What respect should they have for the wealthy, southern-based and largely Oxbridge-educated leaders of the 'people's vote' campaign when in these voters' eyes, the people's vote has already been held? By rights these voters should be able to turn to Corbyn as the leader of a supposed 'people's party' yet his clear as mud Brexit 'policy' gives them nothing to hold on to. Little wonder the simple clarity of Johnson's 'we're leaving do or die' message resonates with so many of these seemingly forgotten voters.

That is a cracking post, GBY. Both sides are playing the "bad establishment" card, but the establishment isn't just the obvious, like JRM. We no doubt diverge on the overall debate beyond that!

[jonty]

Is that really true? The likes of Gina Miller or Dominic Grieve are from as elite a background as Johnson or Rees-Mogg yet are hailed as spokesmen for the true 'people'. Nobody's claiming Johnson and Rees-Mogg are anything but Etonian toffs (Rees-Mogg in particular pretty much wears that as a badge of honour), but it's not them or the little Englanders I'm referring to when it comes to those whose voices are being ignored. It's the millions of ordinary voters who were promised by the overwhelming majority of MPs (more than 80% of whom stood on a mandate of respecting the Brexit referendum) that their vote would count. Instead we have seen Westminster tie up the whole process in parliamentary plots and complex procedures. What are they supposed to make of this? What respect should they have for the wealthy, southern-based and largely Oxbridge-educated leaders of the 'people's vote' campaign when in these voters' eyes, the people's vote has already been held? By rights these voters should be able to turn to Corbyn as the leader of a supposed 'people's party' yet his clear as mud Brexit 'policy' gives them nothing to hold on to. Little wonder the simple clarity of Johnson's 'we're leaving do or die' message resonates with so many of these seemingly forgotten voters.

Doesn't sound very elite to me:

Miller was born Gina Nadira Singh[4] in British Guiana to Savitri and Doodnauth Singh, who later became Attorney General of Guyana. She is of Indian descent.[15][16] She grew up in the newly independent Guyana, and was sent to England by her parents at the age of 10[17][18] to be educated at the fee-paying private Moira House Girls School in Eastbourne.[16][19] When she was 14 Guyana introduced strict currency controls that prevented their parents from continuing to send funds for Gina and her brother, so she took a summer job as a chambermaid in an Eastbourne hotel.[20] She studied law at the Polytechnic of East London (now University of East London) but left without completing her finals because her parents wanted her in Guyana.[16] She has written that she was brutally attacked while at law school, that some of her attackers were fellow students, and that the attack caused her to give up her degree course.[21] She gained a degree in marketing, and an MSc in human resource management at the University of London.[10]

[G B Young]

Doesn't sound very elite to me:

Roedean Moira House is apparently the most expensive girls boarding school in England. Granted, from what you've posted it looks like she ended up having a tricky time due to governmental issues affecting her parents back home, but fair to assume she came from very wealthy roots to attend the school.

My point is more general, however. Citing the economy as a reason for staying in the EU was always going to fall on deaf ears in many communities where the 'boom' years never happened, so why would their minds be changed by a bunch of cosy liberal remainers largely unaffected by austerity telling them how wrong they were to vote the way they did?

[stoneyburn hibs]

Because it's let's take back our country. The affluent Englanders will also buy into that without consideration.

[Hibrandenburg]

More important than the school in my opinion. Kid comes home to a house where homework is encouraged and they are helped etc will do better when that is not there for them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Even more important is if the parents have cash and contacts. The actual education received is only half the story, the school tie and family connections are the x-factor in joining the political elite.

[grunt]

Instead we have seen Westminster tie up the whole process in parliamentary plots and complex procedures. What are they supposed to make of this? What respect should they have for the wealthy, southern-based and largely Oxbridge-educated leaders of the 'people's vote' campaign when in these voters' eyes, the people's vote has already been held? I think you should revisit your recent history. The WA was not passed in Parliament - by which I mean Brexit was thwarted - because your friends in the ERG voted AGAINST the WA. So don't go blaming the remain MPs. If your lot really wanted Brexit they could have had it by now.


Little wonder the simple clarity of Johnson's 'we're leaving do or die' message resonates with so many of these seemingly forgotten voters.Do or die. Not forgetting the existence of a little matter of an Act of Parliament (you remember, British "sovereignty"?) that says if Johnson can't agree a deal before mid October he'll have to ask the EU for an extension. Not so much do or die, as do or "can we get back to you?"

[Barney McGrew]

Boris on the Andrew Marr show this morning.

The number of mentions of the world ‘surrender’ is unbelievable. You can only imagine how high it must have scored in those focus groups.......

[lapsedhibee]

Boris on the Andrew Marr show this morning.

The number of mentions of the world surrender is unbelievable. You can only imagine how high it must have scored in those focus groups.......
That'll be next, as soon as we're free from EU regulations. :wink:

[Scorrie]

Boris on the Andrew Marr show this morning.

The number of mentions of the world ‘surrender’ is unbelievable. You can only imagine how high it must have scored in those focus groups.......

This language is becoming really unsettling. We aren’t at war so use of terms like “surrender” and “traitor” are out of order. They risk leading to violence in my view. Not good.

[Ozyhibby]

Boris on the Andrew Marr show this morning.

The number of mentions of the world ‘surrender’ is unbelievable. You can only imagine how high it must have scored in those focus groups.......

A simple message repeated constantly will smash Labour’s flow chart proposal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Callum_62]

This language is becoming really unsettling. We aren’t at war so use of terms like “surrender” and “traitor” are out of order. They risk leading to violence in my view. Not good.That's what the plan is according to what I'm reading this morning

Civil unrest allowing emergency powers to be used to to override the Benn act

Sounds like democracy to me[emoji3]

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Bangkok Hibby]

So that's Boris Johnson's sister and Philip Hammond suggesting that BJ may be pushing for a no deal brexit so his billionaire backers make **** loads from shorting the pound.

I thought that was pretty well accepted. They don't give a flying **** about democracy.

[Future17]

I don't find this simple or clear. What does it mean? Is he going to kill himself if the UK doesn't leave on 31 October? :pray:

You won't be alone as his use of "do or die" is essentially a misquoting of Tennyson describing soldiers charging into certain slaughter.

As with a lot of what comes out Johnson's mouth, I don't think he knows what it means. He's a terrible communicator, although I think that is probably deliberate.

[Hibrandenburg]

Is it just me or does the Tory Party tree symbol look like the map of south east England?

[Hibby Bairn]

I think we can safely conclude that politics is dominated by well educated posh people. It’s the same for the entertainment industry, journalism, banking and the law. Basically, a good education goes a long way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


The ACTUAL education is probably secondary (!) to the network and connections it enables for the next 50 years following school. Both for the person directly through school relationships and indirectly via family and subsequent working relationships.

You can see this visibly in Edinburgh through the number of quality rugby clubhouse facilities v those available in football. One very simple example.

[G B Young]

I think you should revisit your recent history. The WA was not passed in Parliament - by which I mean Brexit was thwarted - because your friends in the ERG voted AGAINST the WA. So don't go blaming the remain MPs. If your lot really wanted Brexit they could have had it by now.

Do or die. Not forgetting the existence of a little matter of an Act of Parliament (you remember, British "sovereignty"?) that says if Johnson can't agree a deal before mid October he'll have to ask the EU for an extension. Not so much do or die, as do or "can we get back to you?"

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. The EU Withdrawal Bill passed through the Commons more than two years ago and became law in June 2018. No matter how many extensions we ask for that means Brexit remains a statutory inevitability, with no deal being the Withdrawal Act's default option if Parliament ultimately fails to approve a deal.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying. The EU Withdrawal Bill passed through the Commons more than two years ago and became law in June 2018. No matter how many extensions we ask for that means Brexit remains a statutory inevitability, with no deal being the Withdrawal Act's default option if Parliament ultimately fails to approve a deal.

I think the WA is the withdrawal agreement, you know, that thing that failed 3 times because the DUP don't want the backstop and the ERG want to crash out with no deal.

Notwithstanding the Benn bill that passed in the shortest time that requires an agreement with the EU before 19th October or whoever is prime minister must ask for a further extension.

[Jack]

My mistake,post deleted

[CloudSquall]

Chuka outlines the Lib Dem position on a possible VONC and a temporary prime minister, they won't back Corbyn but would back Harriot Harman or Ken Clarke,

https://www.facebook.com/22625199708/posts/10157523904394709?sfns=mo

"We accept a neutral figure, who does not aspire to be Prime Minister in the long term, is most likely to be able to command a majority - that’s why we’ve suggested the Mother or Father of the House, Harriet Harman and Ken Clarke respectively, as compromise candidates instead of our own leader Jo Swinson. We understand why the Labour leader might want a Labour figure to lead such a project - Harriet would do the job well and would be Labour’s first woman Prime Minister. However, if the Leader of the Opposition won’t accept either of these suggestions, it would be helpful and constructive for him to propose an alternative suggestion. Whether this route is workable depends on his willingness to compromise for the sake of our country."

[Cataplana]

Had the misfortune to cast my gaze on the front page of the MoS.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7516083/No-10-probes-MPs-foreign-collusion-amid-plot-John-Bercow-send-surrender-letter-Brussels.html

News from Brussels, EU Commissioners set to cut rogue state adrift, and consider admitting Turkey as a replacement.

"They can't be as bad a basket case as the UK", say cheese eating surrender monkeys.

[G B Young]

I think the WA is the withdrawal agreement, you know, that thing that failed 3 times because the DUP don't want the backstop and the ERG want to crash out with no deal.

Notwithstanding the Benn bill that passed in the shortest time that requires an agreement with the EU before 19th October or whoever is prime minister must ask for a further extension.

Ah, OK I see what he meant now, cheers.

When it comes to Brexit I find the entrenched mindsets of the ERG and the DUP as pathetic as those of the self-righteous remainers. As the Attorney General correctly stated, this Parliament as a whole has been a disgrace. Johnson took flak for his use of language in the House the other night, but those MPs queuing up to play the outrage game were fooling nobody.

Judging by those scenes, quite what Parliament has achieved by being no longer prorogued is hard to see.

[Moulin Yarns]

Had the misfortune to cast my gaze on the front page of the MoS.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-7516083/No-10-probes-MPs-foreign-collusion-amid-plot-John-Bercow-send-surrender-letter-Brussels.html

News from Brussels, EU Commissioners set to cut rogue state adrift, and consider admitting Turkey as a replacement.

"They can't be as bad a basket case as the UK", say cheese eating surrender monkeys.

I couldn't see the front page of the mail on Sunday this morning, it was somehow under several copies of the National. 😉

[lapsedhibee]

quite what Parliament has achieved by being no longer prorogued is hard to see.

I see very clearly that the more scrutiny that Johnson is exposed to, the more it becomes clear that he is a massive ****. Remains to be seen whether this will reduce his appeal, but it might. I believe that MPs from all parties were expressing solidarity with the distressed Labour MP on Wednesday.

[grunt]

Judging by those scenes, quite what Parliament has achieved by being no longer prorogued is hard to see.

It showed that Johnson cannot ride roughshod over Parliamentary process. It actually demonstrated quite clearly that Parliament is sovereign. Ironic eh?

[G B Young]

Chuka outlines the Lib Dem position on a possible VONC and a temporary prime minister, they won't back Corbyn but would back Harriot Harman or Ken Clarke,

https://www.facebook.com/22625199708/posts/10157523904394709?sfns=mo

"We accept a neutral figure, who does not aspire to be Prime Minister in the long term, is most likely to be able to command a majority - that’s why we’ve suggested the Mother or Father of the House, Harriet Harman and Ken Clarke respectively, as compromise candidates instead of our own leader Jo Swinson. We understand why the Labour leader might want a Labour figure to lead such a project - Harriet would do the job well and would be Labour’s first woman Prime Minister. However, if the Leader of the Opposition won’t accept either of these suggestions, it would be helpful and constructive for him to propose an alternative suggestion. Whether this route is workable depends on his willingness to compromise for the sake of our country."

That essentially rules out a vote of no confidence this week because Corbyn won't countenance anyone else taking on that role despite the fact he's arguably as divisive a figure as Johnson. I'm in agreement with Umunna here. Corbyn is making all the right noises about just being a stand-in PM but anyone who thinks he wouldn't use it to his political advantage is naive.

Further to what you've posted, Umunna adds:

"The 20 former Conservative MPs who were ejected from that party and at least 4 other independent MPs have already indicated they will not under any circumstances support the Leader of the Opposition in forming a caretaker government, so a Jeremy Corbyn led emergency government is impossible and does not arise as a prospect. Whether Mr Corbyn is asked to form a Government is not in our gift but if he seeks to do so it is clear he cannot command a majority in the Commons. The SNP are well aware of this which is presumably why their leader, Nicola Sturgeon, referred to being ‘open minded’ on an alternative."

[Moulin Yarns]

Ah, OK I see what he meant now, cheers.

When it comes to Brexit I find the entrenched mindsets of the ERG and the DUP as pathetic as those of the self-righteous remainers. As the Attorney General correctly stated, this Parliament as a whole has been a disgrace. Johnson took flak for his use of language in the House the other night, but those MPs queuing up to play the outrage game were fooling nobody.

Judging by those scenes, quite what Parliament has achieved by being no longer prorogued is hard to see.


The MPs playing outrage as you put it had received threats, but don't let me put you off your worship of the lying King prime minister.

As these scenes happened on the first day of the reconvened Parliament, at least the Parliament is sitting and they can all get back to the day job, something your hero tried to subvert.

[Moulin Yarns]

Ah, OK I see what he meant now, cheers.

When it comes to Brexit I find the entrenched mindsets of the ERG and the DUP as pathetic as those of the self-righteous remainers. As the Attorney General correctly stated, this Parliament as a whole has been a disgrace. Johnson took flak for his use of language in the House the other night, but those MPs queuing up to play the outrage game were fooling nobody.

Judging by those scenes, quite what Parliament has achieved by being no longer prorogued is hard to see.

Oh aye, your last sentence is wrong, the 11 nil victory for justice ruled that, as the attempt to prorogue Parliament was found to be null and void, it was never prorogued in the first place. 😁

[G B Young]

The MPs playing outrage as you put it had received threats, but don't let me put you off your worship of the lying King prime minister.

As these scenes happened on the first day of the reconvened Parliament, at least the Parliament is sitting and they can all get back to the day job, something your hero tried to subvert.

I don't agree with Johnson's rhetoric but I felt the scenes played out in front of the cameras the other night were about little more than political point scoring, preferably at the loudest volume possible. Time for all sides to dial it down.

In saying that, it's tame stuff compared to the days prior to Parliament being televised. Back in her 'milk snatcher' Education Secretary days (and at a time when late night 'debate' was heavily fuelled by booze) Margaret Thatcher faced chants from the Labour benches of 'ditch the bitch'.

[Northernhibee]

The Lib Dem’s can get ****ed.

“We will do anything to stop a no deal Brexit”

“Will you back a time limited Corbyn government?”

“No”.

Tories.

[Moulin Yarns]

I don't agree with Johnson's rhetoric but I felt the scenes played out in front of the cameras the other night were about little more than political point scoring, preferably at the loudest volume possible. Time for all sides to dial it down.

In saying that, it's tame stuff compared to the days prior to Parliament being televised. Back in her 'milk snatcher' Education Secretary days (and at a time when late night 'debate' was heavily fuelled by booze) Margaret Thatcher faced chants from the Labour benches of 'ditch the bitch'.

So, you disagree that MPs from opposition parties have received threats? Only one ANSWER, in a language you understand ...



HUMBUG

[Ozyhibby]

The Lib Dem’s can get ****ed.

“We will do anything to stop a no deal Brexit”

“Will you back a time limited Corbyn government?”

“No”.

Tories.

The Lib Dem’s are correct though. Corbyn just doesn’t have the numbers. Whoever heads up the temp govt needs the support of the 21 expelled Tory mp’s. They are never going to back Corbyn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Cataplana]

I couldn't see the front page of the mail on Sunday this morning, it was somehow under several copies of the National. 😉

Good hiding place. What's the chances of anyone looking there?

[Future17]

The Lib Dem’s can get ****ed.

“We will do anything to stop a no deal Brexit”

“Will you back a time limited Corbyn government?”

“No”.

Tories.

Because proposing a Corbyn-led Government, even a time-limited one, wouldn't stop a no deal Brexit. There's no point backing something which won't succeed.

[makaveli1875]

So, you disagree that MPs from opposition parties have received threats? Only one ANSWER, in a language you understand ...



HUMBUG

What mps have received death threats?

[Sylar]

What mps have received death threats?

Dominic Grieve, Jess Phillips and Angela Rayner for starters.

[lapsedhibee]

Dominic Grieve, Jess Phillips and Angela Rayner for starters.

… Diane Abbott, Antoinette Sandbach, Anna Soubry ...

[Bostonhibby]

What mps have received death threats?BBC News - Army investigating soldier's 'perish' tweet at MP Angela Rayner
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-49855613

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[WeeRussell]

I don't agree with Johnson's rhetoric but I felt the scenes played out in front of the cameras the other night were about little more than political point scoring, preferably at the loudest volume possible. Time for all sides to dial it down.

In saying that, it's tame stuff compared to the days prior to Parliament being televised. Back in her 'milk snatcher' Education Secretary days (and at a time when late night 'debate' was heavily fuelled by booze) Margaret Thatcher faced chants from the Labour benches of 'ditch the bitch'.

What do you suggest should have happened? Surely not just ignore Boris' behaviour and actions :confused:

I'd suggest if he had held his hands up, or even answered any of the questions in a dignified or even coherent manner, the "scenes played out" maybe wouldn't have reached such a volume.

[Moulin Yarns]

What mps have received death threats?

You Misquoted me. Nowhere did I say death threats.

As it is there should be no threat to anyone, even politicians. But seeing how you asked.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-49878498


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49842590


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49247808

[Cataplana]

Just been reading that the Queen has taken advice on how to remove a Prime Minister if necessary, for the first time in her reign.

[Just_Jimmy]

Just been reading that the Queen has taken advice on how to remove a Prime Minister if necessary, for the first time in her reign.Where?

Sent from my Pixel 3a using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

Just been reading that the Queen has taken advice on how to remove a Prime Minister if necessary, for the first time in her reign.

Yeah, have you got a link or source.

Not that I don't believe you, but the monarch has never got involved in politics.


Have to say that the grammar is shocking. I mean "i has been told" shocking.




https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/queen-sought-advice-sacking-prime-minister-638320

[jonty]

Queen 'sought advice' source claims
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/queen-sought-advice-on-sacking-prime-minister-source-claims/ar-AAI1Md5

https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/queen-sought-advice-sacking-prime-minister-638320


Claims that it was slightly more than a "how do we get rid of this useless scarecrow" off-the-cuff comment.
No smoke without fire!

[jonty]

And I'd trust her before I'd trust the majority in the house of commons.

[Cataplana]

Yeah, have you got a link or source.

Not that I don't believe you, but the monarch has never got involved in politics.


Have to say that the grammar is shocking. I mean "i has been told" shocking.




https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/queen-sought-advice-sacking-prime-minister-638320

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/queen-sought-advice-on-sacking-prime-minister-source-claims-1-5013774

I has consulted this source too.

[Bostonhibby]

You Misquoted me. Nowhere did I say death threats.

As it is there should be no threat to anyone, even politicians. But seeing how you asked.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-birmingham-49878498


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49842590


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-49247808You weren't far off the mark, unless it's possible to perish without actually dying.

Boris will probably be along in a minute with a play on words which will explain just that.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Jack]

You weren't far off the mark, unless it's possible to perish without actually dying.

Boris will probably be along in a minute with a play on words which will explain just that.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

Ah, hum, bumble, stammer. But what the people of this country really want to know about is ...

[G B Young]

The Lib Dem’s are correct though. Corbyn just doesn’t have the numbers. Whoever heads up the temp govt needs the support of the 21 expelled Tory mp’s. They are never going to back Corbyn.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As expected this week's proposed no confidence motion has been ditched. Swinson wouldn't budge when it came to supporting Corbyn (she's still pushing the Clarke/Harman alternative) plus Corbyn was never going to get the backing of the Tory rebels or the Change UK MPs:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/sep/30/opposition-parties-to-start-planning-for-national-unity-government

[Jack Hackett]

Yeah, have you got a link or source.

Not that I don't believe you, but the monarch has never got involved in politics.


Have to say that the grammar is shocking. I mean "i has been told" shocking.




https://inews.co.uk/news/uk/queen-sought-advice-sacking-prime-minister-638320

I really really hope you're not having a whooosh moment there mate. It's hard to tell without an accompanying :greengrin

:wink:

[Jack]

I could believe she's never asked before now but it's slightly reassuring she's asking now lo!

"The monarch reportedly asked aides for first time in her reign just how and when should could dismiss a PM.

The Queen sought advice on the circumstances in which she could sack a prime minister ahead of Tuesday’s incendiary Supreme Court ruling, i has been told.

A source claims that the monarch asked her aides for the first time for clarification on just when and how she could dismiss a prime minister who refuses to step aside.

The alleged consultations reinforce suggestions that the monarch and her most senior aides had deep concerns about Boris Johnson’s decision to prorogue Parliament, even before the country’s most senior court was asked to declare the move unlawful.

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/queen-sought-advice-on-sacking-prime-minister-source-claims/ar-AAI1Md5

Sounds a wee bit Ali G but "i" is the publication early in the quote! Proof reading might have been bypassed too!

[Just Alf]

I really really hope you're not having a whooosh moment there mate. It's hard to tell without an accompanying :greengrin

:wink:i was sooo close to a whoosh myself!

Sent from my SM-G935F using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

I really really hope you're not having a whooosh moment there mate. It's hard to tell without an accompanying :greengrin

:wink:

I know, I was in a hurry.

[lapsedhibee]

I know, I was in a hurry.

Understandable. Trying to be first to get news out is a competitive business.

[Hibbyradge]

Understandable. Trying to be first to get news out is a competitive business.

Damn. Beat me to it.

[wpj]

Boris on BBC news today, what a total to$$er. No questions answered with a straight answer just a load of nonsense about cows and cheese and how much he loves buses. He is our prime minister, what a total embarrassment we are around the world

[lapsedhibee]

Boris on BBC news today, what a total to$$er. No questions answered with a straight answer just a load of nonsense about cows and cheese and how much he loves buses. He is our prime minister, what a total embarrassment we are around the world
He's a clown, but at least he's managed to solve the Irish border problem without putting a border on the Irish border. Just have two borders, one five miles south of the old border and one five miles north of it. Genius!

[JeMeSouviens]

Chat emerging of a potential compromise on the Oppo benches - no confidence to boot out Johnson then a caretaker govt with Corbyn in charge to get extension with EU27. But, crucial difference, they move to ref#2 straight away before having a general election.

[JeMeSouviens]

He's a clown, but at least he's managed to solve the Irish border problem without putting a border on the Irish border. Just have two borders, one five miles south of the old border and one five miles north of it. Genius!

I don't think they're remotely serious about a deal now, it's just a fig leaf so they can start the blame game. The leaks about this plan have come from the EU side which suggests they don't expect anything meaningful from the UK side and want to get their retaliation in first.

[Ozyhibby]

He's a clown, but at least he's managed to solve the Irish border problem without putting a border on the Irish border. Just have two borders, one five miles south of the old border and one five miles north of it. Genius!

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191001/0074f90b9895aef1156644757bd3c155.jpg
The new border certainly looks funny.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Northernhibee]

Chat emerging of a potential compromise on the Oppo benches - no confidence to boot out Johnson then a caretaker govt with Corbyn in charge to get extension with EU27. But, crucial difference, they move to ref#2 straight away before having a general election.

That's the ideal outcome IMO. If that happens and we remain, then the Tory party vote splits in two with the Brexit party, remainers stick with remain parties and other than having to tighten up with locking up the far right who will try to cause havoc from it, job done.

Tory party in the wilderness for at least a generation, FPTP keeps BXP limited to a small handful of seats.

[lapsedhibee]

Boris on BBC news today, what a total to$$er. No questions answered with a straight answer just a load of nonsense about cows and cheese and how much he loves buses. He is our prime minister, what a total embarrassment we are around the world

Some people up and down the country - not me, but some people up and down the country - have been suggesting that he and others get away with far too much lying on the Today show because this woman is the Editor. (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/01/30/sarah-sands-named-editor-bbc-radio-4s-today-programme/)