Brexit - What Now.

[Kato]

https://twitter.com/peston/status/1638462675574300672?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Truss voting against as well. Getting close to Labour having to bail him out and if that’s the case, he might be toast.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIf it goes through on Labour votes their extremists will be livid.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

https://twitter.com/peston/status/1638462675574300672?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Truss voting against as well. Getting close to Labour having to bail him out and if that’s the case, he might be toast.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIf Truss is voting against it either there's something in it for her in doing so, or it's actually a good idea.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Did anyone spot Mark Francois yesterday reading out the ERG statement, where he reads the bit that says, "Mark Francois said ..."?

[Kato]

Did anyone spot Mark Francois yesterday reading out the ERG statement, where he reads the bit that says, "Mark Francois said ..."?The have a "star chamber", like they're a group if superheroes or something. The pomposity is revealing.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

Did anyone spot Mark Francois yesterday reading out the ERG statement, where he reads the bit that says, "Mark Francois said ..."?Maybe trying to disassociate himself from the other Mark Francois?

Perfectly understandable.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Brexit has ruined everything, everywhere, all at once

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-has-ruined-everything-everywhere-all-at-once/

[Hibrandenburg]

Brexit has ruined everything, everywhere, all at once

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-has-ruined-everything-everywhere-all-at-once/

Ach, stop being such a pessimist, the next Labour government is just over the horizon and they'll make everything right again.

[hibsbollah]

Brexit has ruined everything, everywhere, all at once

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/brexit-has-ruined-everything-everywhere-all-at-once/

We’ve still not signed back into the Horizon research project funding? That makes absolutely no sense.

[grunt]

We’ve still not signed back into the Horizon research project funding? That makes absolutely no sense.
I refer you to the previous 7507 posts on this thread.

[grunt]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsTACtRWwAAfyPj?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Kato]

Ach, stop being such a pessimist, the next Labour government is just over the horizon and they'll make everything right again.https://twitter.com/PollingReportUK/status/1639218026024239107?t=dd0jjnifozThlWyn_i_L0A&s=19

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[ronaldo7]

Ach, stop being such a pessimist, the next Labour government is just over the horizon and they'll make everything right again.

Any old three word slogan will do.

[Stairway 2 7]

Stick it on the side of a bus

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/richard-hughes-brexit-has-hit-the-economy-as-hard-as-covid-or-energy-crisis-xg678m30f?shareToken=b3a1d98990acbfc586e984a20d939 66d

Richard Hughes: Brexit has hit the economy as hard as Covid or energy crisis

[Kato]

Stick it on the side of a bus

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/richard-hughes-brexit-has-hit-the-economy-as-hard-as-covid-or-energy-crisis-xg678m30f?shareToken=b3a1d98990acbfc586e984a20d939 66d

Richard Hughes: Brexit has hit the economy as hard as Covid or energy crisisJust more confirmation that the people who were led by the nose to vote for this were absolute clowns. Are we allowed to call them stupid yet?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230329/59ff10da2e55251de057712d711a4dcf.jpg

https://twitter.com/martinbright/status/1640681654862618625?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kato]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230329/59ff10da2e55251de057712d711a4dcf.jpg

https://twitter.com/martinbright/status/1640681654862618625?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkDid he vote for "The Twats Brexit"?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Oh look! Another Brexit lie.

https://www.bylinesupplement.com/p/the-brexit-scam-how-rishi-sunak-is


And as with pretty much every other claimed benefit of leaving the EU, Sunak’s latest claims fail to stand up to even the mildest of scrutiny.

[grunt]

Brexit: EU funding for charity and community groups to end

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65123873

[archie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-65123873

Inevitable that EU funding would end. Particularly acute issue in NI. The key question is what replaces it.

[Kato]

Inevitable that EU funding would end. Particularly acute issue in NI. The key question is what replaces it.Pennies, or nothing, instead of pounds. No way will the Tories fund projects to the extent the EU did.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Inevitable that EU funding would end. Particularly acute issue in NI. The key question is what replaces it.Do you not think there should have been an answer to this question before the EU money ends?

[archie]

Pennies, or nothing, instead of pounds. No way will the Tories fund projects to the extent the EU did.

Sent from my SM-A528B using TapatalkIn NI almost certainly. Given that most projects in GB had a 40% or 50% intervention rate there was already at least mathing funding required.

[archie]

Do you not think there should have been an answer to this question before the EU money ends?

I didn't support Brexit and I would agree.

[Kato]

I didn't support Brexit and I would agree.If the leavers were telling the truth about brexit before the vote what made you against it, given the rosy post-brexit future they painted?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Just Alf]

Yet another Tory lie I guess, they did promise that EU funding would be replaced by UK central government funding.

[Moulin Yarns]

Yet another Tory lie I guess, they did promise that EU funding would be replaced by UK central government funding.

It has been, the only problem is that it's a fraction of the amount from the EU and is all going to Tory constituencies.

[archie]

If the leavers were telling the truth about brexit before the vote what made you against it, given the rosy post-brexit future they painted?

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk Because you reduce political discourse to truth or lies, with no nuance or being shaped as possiblities rather than certain outcomes, it must seem strange to you that people can weigh up arguments. I am not as ferociously pro EU as you are, but I think that the advantages of EU membership far outweighed the disadvantages. I was particularly concerned about the impact of Brexit on Northern Ireland. I also think binary politics lead to poor political discourse. I don't, for example, view leave voters as racist or fundamentally stupid.

[grunt]

Because you reduce political discourse to truth or lies, with no nuance or being shaped as possiblities rather than certain outcomes, it must seem strange to you that people can weigh up arguments. I am not as ferociously pro EU as you are, but I think that the advantages of EU membership far outweighed the disadvantages. I was particularly concerned about the impact of Brexit on Northern Ireland.But you didn't notice the Vote Leave and Leave.EU lies?


I also think binary politics lead to poor political discourse. I don't, for example, view leave voters as racist or fundamentally stupid.Not all of them perhaps. But I expect most racists were Leave voters. And with hindsight, you still don't think they were stupid?

On the day after the vote, I said the decision was "monumentally stupid". I lost a few online acquaintances because of that comment. (It wasn't on here). Seven years on, I still stand by that assessment.

[archie]

But you didn't notice the Vote Leave and Leave.EU lies?

I thought the assertions were wildly overblown.


Not all of them perhaps. But I expect most racists were Leave voters. And with hindsight, you still don't think they were stupid?

On the day after the vote, I said the decision was "monumentally stupid". I lost a few online acquaintances because of that comment. (It wasn't on here). Seven years on, I still stand by that assessment.

I think there are legitimate reasons why people would want to leave the EU. I don't agree with them, but I don't think they are stupid, just as I didn't think the Norwegians were stupid when they voted no to entry.

[Bostonhibby]

Did he vote for "The Twats Brexit"?

Sent from my SM-A528B using TapatalkNo, the one where holding his/her britannic majesties passport guaranteed the right to march straight through border control of all of these Johnny foreigners like he thought we used to do when we had an empire/singlehandedly defeated Hitler etc etc?

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/haggis_uk/status/1641716713392668673?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

I thought the assertions were wildly overblown.Did you see my list on the Labour thread? They lied, pure and simple.


I think there are legitimate reasons why people would want to leave the EU. I don't agree with them, but I don't think they are stupid, just as I didn't think the Norwegians were stupid when they voted no to entry.Surprisingly, I can perhaps understand a country that is doing fine on their own not wanting to join the EU. I'm no expert, but it seems that Norway has arrived at a place where they enjoy some of the benefits of the EU while staying outside. But to be in it, enjoying all the benefits of the EU, I consider it stupid to want to leave. If that's contradictory, so be it.

Didn't Norway say we'd be mad to leave?

[archie]

Did you see my list on the Labour thread? They lied, pure and simple.

Surprisingly, I can perhaps understand a country that is doing fine on their own not wanting to join the EU. I'm no expert, but it seems that Norway has arrived at a place where they enjoy some of the benefits of the EU while staying outside. But to be in it, enjoying all the benefits of the EU, I consider it stupid to want to leave. If that's contradictory, so be it.

Didn't Norway say we'd be mad to leave?

I think we should aim to do some of the deals with the EU that Norway has.

[grunt]

I think we should aim to do some of the deals with the EU that Norway has.I think Scotland will be going for full membership.

[archie]

I think Scotland will be going for full membership.

Well after any referendum it would take around three years to get through the process for independence to be achieved. The EU application process takes a significant time - possibly up to ten years. So maybe don't brush off the Norway option just yet.

[grunt]

Well after any referendum it would take around three years to get through the process for independence to be achieved. The EU application process takes a significant time - possibly up to ten years. So maybe don't brush off the Norway option just yet.
Not necessarily. All it takes is willingness on both sides.

[archie]

Not necessarily. All it takes is willingness on both sides.

I think it can be around five years, assuming the Copenhagen criteria are met. Not a trivial process.

[Smartie]

I thought the assertions were wildly overblown.



I think there are legitimate reasons why people would want to leave the EU. I don't agree with them, but I don't think they are stupid, just as I didn't think the Norwegians were stupid when they voted no to entry.

I think there were (and remain) valid reasons to have misgivings about the EU that might have led perfectly sensible folk to question why we should remain in it.

Having rationally assessed those reasons, I maintain that anyone who thinks that the right decision is to be on the outside rather than trying to shape it for the better from the inside is fundamentally stupid, I’m afraid.

[archie]

I think there are valid reasons to have misgivings about the EU that might lead you to question why we should remain in it.

Having rationally assessed those reasons if you think that the right decision is to be on the outside rather than trying to shape it for the better from the inside then I’m afraid I think you’re fundamentally stupid.

I don't think it was the right decision. Were the Norwegians fundamentally stupid?

[Smartie]

I don't think it was the right decision. Were the Norwegians fundamentally stupid?

Nope.

Just in a different place to us.

[archie]

Nope.

Just in a different place to us.

So it's not an absolute that it's better being in than out?

[Smartie]

So it's not an absolute that it's better being in than out?

Each case on its merits.

The UK was never going to be better out.

There are reasons why it might be different for different nations.

I cannot understand why any Scot wouldn’t want to be part of the EU, and why they wouldn’t be prepared to take some risks and make some sacrifices to try to get there.

[archie]

Each case on its merits.

The UK was never going to be better out.

There are reasons why it might be different for different nations.

I cannot understand why any Scot wouldn’t want to be part of the EU, and why they wouldn’t be prepared to take some risks and make some sacrifices to try to get there.

I would vote to go back in (but wouldn't support joining the euro. What do you see as the risks and sacrifices?

[WeeRussell]

I would vote to go back in (but wouldn't support joining the euro. What do you see as the risks and sacrifices?

Going independent and the .net better together daily campaigners needing to find a new hobby?

[grunt]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FsiPl34XwAc9yj4?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/skynews/status/1642422992301957120?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JeMeSouviens]

I don't think it was the right decision. Were the Norwegians fundamentally stupid?

Yes. Ditto the Swiss. Governments of both would have and would still love to be in. Voters eh? A tricky bunch. :rolleyes:

[Ozyhibby]

Yes. Ditto the Swiss. Governments of both would have and would still love to be in. Voters eh? A tricky bunch. :rolleyes:

Aren’t they both in the SM and CU though?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JeMeSouviens]

Aren’t they both in the SM and CU though?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Norway is SM via the EEA so gets EU rules automatically without getting as much input and has no voting rights. Not CU.

The Swiss aren't in either but have series of bilateral agreements with the EU which more or less amount to SM participation. The Swiss govt has been having a nightmare the last few years as they're in a round of negotiations with the EU on updating the agreements while domestically the Swiss People's Party (a sort of hybrid of urban UKIP and ultra trad rural conservatism) keep agititating to undo things.

Couple of SVP posters to give you a flavour :rolleyes:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/ECPHxmtWsAE8Mvq?format=jpg&name=900x900


https://www.swissinfo.ch/resource/blob/796662/b905c86c5a370171ca45f6f16b963132/sriimg20090205_10289608_0-data.jpg

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230403/39534f5aaa81de45a1b78ed660cb4842.jpg

Brexit wasn’t about stopping us going there, only them coming here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kato]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230403/39534f5aaa81de45a1b78ed660cb4842.jpg

Brexit wasn’t about stopping us going there, only them coming here.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThere is no point trying to rationalise what these people want, it can never be pinned down in one sentence never mind long term plan. For some it's a grift and for others they are just bat**** crazy.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Since90+2]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230403/39534f5aaa81de45a1b78ed660cb4842.jpg

Brexit wasn’t about stopping us going there, only them coming here.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm as pro EU as anyone on here, but that's not what he's saying is it?

[JeMeSouviens]

I'm as pro EU as anyone on here, but that's not what he's saying is it?

Not quite. He's saying why not have different rules about movement for work because we're concerned about that but not movement for tourism because that's inconvenient for us. In other words, cherry picking as per.

[Moulin Yarns]

1 I can't believe this hasn't been posted before.

2 I also can't believe she said that


Enjoy

https://twitter.com/RosieisaHolt/status/1642886212754059265?t=iB1V2t9CCrAHOweDzZeyNg&s=19

[Kato]

1 I can't believe this hasn't been posted before.

2 I also can't believe she said that


Enjoy

https://twitter.com/RosieisaHolt/status/1642886212754059265?t=iB1V2t9CCrAHOweDzZeyNg&s=19Satire. I know its hard to differentiate these days. She has to have the driest delivery ever to come out with that though.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Just Alf]

Satire. I know its hard to differentiate these days. She has to have the driest delivery ever to come out with that though.

Sent from my SM-A528B using TapatalkBrilliant.. :rofl:

BREXIT = Vomiting Frog

[grunt]

L.O.L.

https://twitter.com/ByDonkeys/status/1643915140239179784?s=20

[grunt]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/apr/08/french-and-german-tourists-turn-their-back-on-brexit-britain?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Other

French and German tourists turn their back on Brexit Britain

French and German tourists are beginning to avoid the UK, tourism leaders fear, because of post-Brexit restrictions on travelling with identity cards.

Since anti-Covid measures ended across Europe (https://www.theguardian.com/world/europe-news) last year, tourism has started to recover, but there are growing signs that significant numbers of French and Germans – two of the largest markets for UK tourism – are staying away.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/philsbodydouble/status/1645140438377021441?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Brexit is killing British industry

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Ftc-vqtX0AAPbKV?format=jpg&name=large

[Hibrandenburg]

Not sure if it's Brexit related or Euro related but I was at work (UK) and decided to book my ferry for the summer holidays. I'd entered all the details Car, caravan, 3 pax and the mutt and it came to about £610 pounds return. Unfortunately I got interrupted and didn't finish the payment so I waited until I got home (Germany) and then made the exact same booking but it only came to €554. I thought maybe the prices had been lowered so I checked at work again this morning and it was still £610 when booking from the UK. That's about £50 difference when you take in the exchange rate. Brits are being ripped off.

[Jack]

Not sure if it's Brexit related or Euro related but I was at work (UK) and decided to book my ferry for the summer holidays. I'd entered all the details Car, caravan, 3 pax and the mutt and it came to about £610 pounds return. Unfortunately I got interrupted and didn't finish the payment so I waited until I got home (Germany) and then made the exact same booking but it only came to €554. I thought maybe the prices had been lowered so I checked at work again this morning and it was still £610 when booking from the UK. That's about £50 difference when you take in the exchange rate. Brits are being ripped off.

I've seen similar with air travel and other travel arrangements and although I've seen the cheapness go both ways it's generally the Brits that get shafted. This has gone on long before Brexit.

Buying lots of worldwide goods is the same. Mobile phones for example are either the same amount of currency; £1,000, €1,000 or $1,000 for example, basically making them around 10% to 20% more expensive than overseas. Worse case scenario is when the same spec is actually more than the 1,000 example.

[Smartie]

Where and how is air travel (and other types of travel) taxed?

Was there not a controversy fairly recently about the Tories wanting to cut some of the tax involved in air travel but environmental groups were against it?

[JeMeSouviens]

Where and how is air travel (and other types of travel) taxed?

Was there not a controversy fairly recently about the Tories wanting to cut some of the tax involved in air travel but environmental groups were against it?

The UK has Air Passenger Duty paid per passenger on all departing flights (apart from the Highlands and Islands which are exempt.) It was brought in because the UK is signed up to some international agreement that excludes aviation fuel from taxation. The rates depend on the distance of the flight and the class of travel, basically how much space your seat takes up on the plane.

The govt has recently halved it, I think it was from the start of this month.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-cost-uk-workers-lost-income-obr-institute-for-fiscal-studies-b1073578.html

An expensive vote.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

****ing incompetent *******s.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/13/ukrainian-orchestra-key-members-refused-visas-play-uk?CMP=share_btn_tw


Key members of a Ukrainian state orchestra were refused visas to play a series of concerts in the UK this month in a “catastrophe” that the promoter claims cost it more than €100,000 (£88,000).

The shows had been promoted on the UK government website as an example of British-Ukrainian relations.

[Stairway 2 7]

****ing incompetent *******s.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/13/ukrainian-orchestra-key-members-refused-visas-play-uk?CMP=share_btn_tw

I'd say that's ******g unbelievable but sadly it's not, what a joke we are

[ronaldo7]

****ing incompetent *******s.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/apr/13/ukrainian-orchestra-key-members-refused-visas-play-uk?CMP=share_btn_tw

You won't see that trumpeted in downing street.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.politico.eu/article/united-ireland-look-more-likely-brexit-study-uk-belfast/

I think I’ve found a brexit benefit. Do I get a prize?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

https://www.politico.eu/article/united-ireland-look-more-likely-brexit-study-uk-belfast/

I think I’ve found a brexit benefit. Do I get a prize?
It'd be nice if we could get a united Ireland and an independent Scotland to happen on the same day. Say the 5th anniversary of the Brexit "independence" day?

[Stairway 2 7]

It'd be nice if we could get a united Ireland and an independent Scotland to happen on the same day. Say the 5th anniversary of the Brexit "independence" day?

Polls in NI are worse than Scotland on the subject, surprisingly a number of Republicans aren't bothered about united Ireland. Brexit could definitely change that in time

[Smartie]

It'd be nice if we could get a united Ireland and an independent Scotland to happen on the same day. Say the 5th anniversary of the Brexit "independence" day?

If the Northern Irish (both sides) could engage their brains and see some of the opportunities that will be given to them over the next half century as a "special case' country that is allowed advantages that neither the ROI or the rest of the UK will enjoy, then they could have a seriously enviable medium term future.

Instead, their future seems destined to be more about another descent into blowing each other up and bickering about which flag flies over the town hall.

[grunt]

If the Northern Irish (both sides) could engage their brains and see some of the opportunities that will be given to them over the next half century as a "special case' country that is allowed advantages that neither the ROI or the rest of the UK will enjoy, then they could have a seriously enviable medium term future.
https://www.newstatesman.com/world/europe/2023/04/ireland-booms-brexit-whimpers-next-door


Ireland booms while Brexit Britain whimpers next door
While Joe Biden visits Ireland, Brexiteers said their closest EU neighbour would be “doomed” – now it’s set to be the top-performing economy in Europe this year.

[Ozyhibby]

If the Northern Irish (both sides) could engage their brains and see some of the opportunities that will be given to them over the next half century as a "special case' country that is allowed advantages that neither the ROI or the rest of the UK will enjoy, then they could have a seriously enviable medium term future.

Instead, their future seems destined to be more about another descent into blowing each other up and bickering about which flag flies over the town hall.

To be fair, one side does see the benefits of their position.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Maybe not the biggest of concerns, but somehow emblematic of the further closing off of the UK from the continent.

https://www.theguardian.com/travel/2023/apr/15/brexit-orient-express-murder-london-folkestone-leg-route-border-delays


Orient Express to axe UK section after 41 years due to Brexit

[Stairway 2 7]

Like his fellow rat Dyson Jim Ratcliffe supports brexit but then puts factory elsewhere due to brexit

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/apr/17/jim-ratcliffe-ineos-electric-grenadier-austria?CMP=share_btn_tw

[archie]

These are EU proposals for new, enforceable deficit rules. I'm not able to offer a detailed view on this as I've only just read it. My initial thought is it's particularly tough if a country is in the Eurozone. I also wonder how it would affect Scotland if we were to enter a) the EU and b) the Eurozone. This is not trivial. https://www.cer.eu/publications/archive/policy-brief/2023/five-proposals-enforceable-eu-fiscal-rules

[Stairway 2 7]

This is absurd. Britain wants a discount to join horizon European science scheme. They don't need us we need it. A massive own goal not staying in it in the first place

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-weighs-value-for-money-of-returning-to-eu-science-after-brexit-hiatus/

Britain wants special Brexit discount to rejoin EU science projects
EU diplomat slams ‘Margaret Thatcher-style thinking’ as UK demands Horizon Europe rebate

[grunt]

Better together?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FunjBWYXgAIVGCK?format=jpg&name=large

[Ozyhibby]

Better together?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FunjBWYXgAIVGCK?format=jpg&name=large

Rejoining the EU is the only way to return to our previous living standards. There is only one route to that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[archie]

Rejoining the EU is the only way to return to our previous living standards. There is only one route to that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Big statement that it is the only way. Surely much would depend on the deal to rejoin the EU? Also, SNP has said that it would take 10 years after independence before we would see benefits, so not a quick fix (if a fix at all).

[Ozyhibby]

Big statement that it is the only way. Surely much would depend on the deal to rejoin the EU? Also, SNP has said that it would take 10 years after independence before we would see benefits, so not a quick fix (if a fix at all).

How do you mean depend on the deal? Do you think we would be turned down?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[archie]

How do you mean depend on the deal? Do you think we would be turned down?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Surely you would want to know: a) the terms of any deal to join and b) how the accession criteria would be applied? I'd also want to understand the deficit proposals that the German Government is pushing, to assess impact on Scottish Government scope to manage the economy.

[marinello59]

Surely you would want to know: a) the terms of any deal to join and b) how the accession criteria would be applied? I'd also want to understand the deficit proposals that the German Government is pushing, to assess impact on Scottish Government scope to manage the economy.

You make a good point there. I’d be keen to see us rejoin the EU but not under any terms. It might be that a Norway style agreement, which I suspect the UK as a whole will slowly drift towards anyway, is the best solution in the end.

[Ozyhibby]

Surely you would want to know: a) the terms of any deal to join and b) how the accession criteria would be applied? I'd also want to understand the deficit proposals that the German Government is pushing, to assess impact on Scottish Government scope to manage the economy.

What make you think we are special that we can have a different deal from everyone else? We’ll join on the same terms as everyone else except for Schengen for obvious reasons in that it’s not a barrier to trade because we are on an island.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[archie]

What make you think we are special that we can have a different deal from everyone else? We’ll join on the same terms as everyone else except for Schengen for obvious reasons in that it’s not a barrier to trade because we are on an island.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well I think Scotland would have very specific circumstances. We would be setting up a country, with all of the stresses and strains that brings. We would also be setting up a new currency, again with all the stresses and strains that brings. So there would be a fair bit of turmoil that would take some years to run through. So the position would be that we wait to work that through or we apply early on and get some leeway from the EU about how we meet the Copenhagen criteria. I assume you would want to go sooner, hence the need to negotiate.

I'd also want a sensible discussion about the Euro. We have to commit to join, but how flexible would that time line be? To have three currencies in, say, ten years could be very destabilising.

I think it's incumbent on people negotiating on Scotland's behalf to get the best deal. I don't see why that's controversial.

[Ozyhibby]

Well I think Scotland would have very specific circumstances. We would be setting up a country, with all of the stresses and strains that brings. We would also be setting up a new currency, again with all the stresses and strains that brings. So there would be a fair bit of turmoil that would take some years to run through. So the position would be that we wait to work that through or we apply early on and get some leeway from the EU about how we meet the Copenhagen criteria. I assume you would want to go sooner, hence the need to negotiate.

I'd also want a sensible discussion about the Euro. We have to commit to join, but how flexible would that time line be? To have three currencies in, say, ten years could be very destabilising.

I think it's incumbent on people negotiating on Scotland's behalf to get the best deal. I don't see why that's controversial.

So you are looking for time to meet criteria rather than different rules from everyone else. That makes more sense and the EU has always shown good flexibility on all these things.
I’m ok with the Euro but it would take a lot more than 10 years before Scotland was ready for it, so I’m sure that would be ok. The EU seems in no rush to force anyone onto the euro and in fact won’t let you in until you are ready. I think Croatia recently joined but one of their neighbours was told to cool their jets a bit until they were ready.
Half of Eastern Europe isn’t in it and there is no great push for them to join.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Very good journalism and data analysis. Brexit is destroying London and will continue to do

https://mobile.twitter.com/ianmulheirn/status/1651193188235763713

Ian Mulheirn
@ianmulheirn
What's killing London?

Last week
@jburnmurdoch
shone a light on a worrying trend - the shrinking population of Londoners aged 25-39

But there are actually *more* UK-born young Londoners than ever - it's Brexit that's sapping the capital's lifeblood

[Stairway 2 7]

So you are looking for time to meet criteria rather than different rules from everyone else. That makes more sense and the EU has always shown good flexibility on all these things.
I’m ok with the Euro but it would take a lot more than 10 years before Scotland was ready for it, so I’m sure that would be ok. The EU seems in no rush to force anyone onto the euro and in fact won’t let you in until you are ready. I think Croatia recently joined but one of their neighbours was told to cool their jets a bit until they were ready.
Half of Eastern Europe isn’t in it and there is no great push for them to join.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Brexit has been so bad economically that any argument against accepting any rules seems silly. Look at how much more money each Irish person has as take home pay each month and still try to argue against it

[archie]

So you are looking for time to meet criteria rather than different rules from everyone else. That makes more sense and the EU has always shown good flexibility on all these things.
I’m ok with the Euro but it would take a lot more than 10 years before Scotland was ready for it, so I’m sure that would be ok. The EU seems in no rush to force anyone onto the euro and in fact won’t let you in until you are ready. I think Croatia recently joined but one of their neighbours was told to cool their jets a bit until they were ready.
Half of Eastern Europe isn’t in it and there is no great push for them to join.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But more time will mean a longer time before joining. So either we delay entry to some way down the track or the EU is flexible on deficit criteria etc.

[Ozyhibby]

But more time will mean a longer time before joining. So either we delay entry to some way down the track or the EU is flexible on deficit criteria etc.

SM and CU access need not be delayed though and that is the jewel in the crown.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

Brexit has been so bad economically that any argument against accepting any rules seems silly. Look at how much more money each Irish person has as take home pay each month and still try to argue against it

Yip. Staying in the UK now is costing Scots families thousands of pounds a year. It’s a very expensive union.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[archie]

Yip. Staying in the UK now is costing Scots families thousands of pounds a year. It’s a very expensive union.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/country/comparison/united-kingdom/ireland

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/country/comparison/united-kingdom/ireland

We’ve been over this before. Ireland has a higher standard of living than Scotland. And it’s not close.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[archie]

We’ve been over this before. Ireland has a higher standard of living than Scotland. And it’s not close.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You keep saying this as if it's an unarguable fact. Other views are available https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/standard-of-living-by-country

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.expatistan.com/cost-of-living/country/comparison/united-kingdom/ireland

I put up a financial Times article last month with data that showed in every single percentile of the population Irish have a significantly better disposable income, this is post all bills.

Plus expatistan is hopeless, I've used it before out of curiosity when travelling and sometimes it's not close

Here's the tweet thread and article. It's based on uk but last tweet shows Ireland.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1570832839318605824


John Burn-Murdoch
@jburnmurdoch
NEW: income inequality in US & UK is so wide that while the richest are very well off, the poorest have a worse standard of living than the poorest in countries like Slovenia https://ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945

Essentially, US & UK are poor societies with some very rich people.

A thread

[Ozyhibby]

You keep saying this as if it's an unarguable fact. Other views are available https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/standard-of-living-by-country

Good for you, keep those Brexit blinkers on. [emoji122][emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

I put up a financial Times article last month with data that showed in every single percentile of the population Irish have a significantly better disposable income, this is post all bills.

Plus expatistan is hopeless, I've used it before out of curiosity when travelling and sometimes it's not close

Here's the tweet thread and article. It's based on uk but last tweet shows Ireland.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1570832839318605824


John Burn-Murdoch
@jburnmurdoch
NEW: income inequality in US & UK is so wide that while the richest are very well off, the poorest have a worse standard of living than the poorest in countries like Slovenia https://ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945

Essentially, US & UK are poor societies with some very rich people.

A thread

John Burn-Murdoch is pretty good. Lots of detail in his articles. Ed Conway at Sky is also good at this sort of stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

John Burn-Murdoch is pretty good. Lots of detail in his articles. Ed Conway at Sky is also good at this sort of stuff.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yeah I like both. Graphs can make it much easier to understand, unfortunately the last few years they have been generally grimm and stark for the uk.

[Smartie]

Yeah I like both. Graphs can make it much easier to understand, unfortunately the last few years they have been generally grimm and stark for the uk.

You can't express the pleasant scent of sovereignty in your nostrils via a graph.

Damn fools with their damn facts.

[archie]

Good for you, keep those Brexit blinkers on. [emoji122][emoji106]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I didn't support Brexit.

[Stairway 2 7]

In more lovely brexit news food prices could massively increase due to brexit, well we do import 30% of our food from the EU

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-business-fear-brexit-checks-food-price-inflation/

[Kato]

Essentially, US & UK are poor societies with some very rich people.



Without looking up the dictionary meaning that describes an oligarchy to me.



Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

Without looking up the dictionary meaning that describes an oligarchy to me.



Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

We surely are?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ronaldo7]

In more lovely brexit news food prices could massively increase due to brexit, well we do import 30% of our food from the EU

https://www.politico.eu/article/uk-business-fear-brexit-checks-food-price-inflation/

It's only £400 million for businesses to be able to pass onto the consumer. Smell that sovereignty.😳

[archie]

I put up a financial Times article last month with data that showed in every single percentile of the population Irish have a significantly better disposable income, this is post all bills.

Plus expatistan is hopeless, I've used it before out of curiosity when travelling and sometimes it's not close

Here's the tweet thread and article. It's based on uk but last tweet shows Ireland.

https://mobile.twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1570832839318605824


John Burn-Murdoch
@jburnmurdoch
NEW: income inequality in US & UK is so wide that while the richest are very well off, the poorest have a worse standard of living than the poorest in countries like Slovenia https://ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945

Essentially, US & UK are poor societies with some very rich people.

A thread

Thanks for posting this material. I note you dismiss out of hand something that doesn't support your view, but we'll let that pass!

I also didn't post material comparing NI and Ireland because, TBH, I saw academics reaching wildly divergent conclusions that related to their wider political perspective. But I don't doubt the FT snapshot at all. Here's an article from a couple of years ago that tries to strip out GDP distortions https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-ranks-13th-in-eu-living-standards-survey-1.4599245

I do however have a real issue with the 'Irish are rich, rich, rich' drumbeat we get on here. It's a bit personal as I have family in Ireland. The parents are working in decent jobs and they paint a very different picture. Now everybody grumbles, but they are extremely sceptical about the rosy picture of Ireland painted here. As an aside, they are the only ones in their circle with a 25 year mortgage - the rest have longer terms.

And how people in Ireland are feeling about the economy is reflected in the growth of Sein Fein as an electoral force.

Might Ireland be 'richer' than the UK right now? Maybe. Will it be in a year? Who knows?

None of this means that I am blindly defending the way the UK is run. Far from it. Nobody wants to see income disparity and worsening living standards. Things need to get better for ordinary people in this country. We also need to fix a lot about how this country is run. My personal target would include: stabilising the finances; sorting the NHS; and council house building.

Would going into the EU help that. Quite possibly. Is pointing at how an EU country is doing and saying that it's conclusive proof that we would be 'richer' if in the EU? No. Much of what is put forward as Ireland's is actually an extremely business friendly tax regime. I don't think that would be in the UK's interests.

[grunt]

Is pointing at how an EU country is doing and saying that it's conclusive proof that we would be 'richer' if in the EU? No.
Irrelevant. There's no need to compare ourselves with other EU countries. Simple point is - Brexit is costing us money for zero benefit. Therefore, being back in the EU we would be better off than we are now. Simple.

[Stairway 2 7]

Thanks for posting this material. I note you dismiss out of hand something that doesn't support your view, but we'll let that pass!

I also didn't post material comparing NI and Ireland because, TBH, I saw academics reaching wildly divergent conclusions that related to their wider political perspective. But I don't doubt the FT snapshot at all. Here's an article from a couple of years ago that tries to strip out GDP distortions https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/ireland-ranks-13th-in-eu-living-standards-survey-1.4599245

I do however have a real issue with the 'Irish are rich, rich, rich' drumbeat we get on here. It's a bit personal as I have family in Ireland. The parents are working in decent jobs and they paint a very different picture. Now everybody grumbles, but they are extremely sceptical about the rosy picture of Ireland painted here. As an aside, they are the only ones in their circle with a 25 year mortgage - the rest have longer terms.

And how people in Ireland are feeling about the economy is reflected in the growth of Sein Fein as an electoral force.

Might Ireland be 'richer' than the UK right now? Maybe. Will it be in a year? Who knows?

None of this means that I am blindly defending the way the UK is run. Far from it. Nobody wants to see income disparity and worsening living standards. Things need to get better for ordinary people in this country. We also need to fix a lot about how this country is run. My personal target would include: stabilising the finances; sorting the NHS; and council house building.

Would going into the EU help that. Quite possibly. Is pointing at how an EU country is doing and saying that it's conclusive proof that we would be 'richer' if in the EU? No. Much of what is put forward as Ireland's is actually an extremely business friendly tax regime. I don't think that would be in the UK's interests.

I never mentioned gbp as Ireland is an outlier. Its better to compare our gdp with the rest of the g7 we are doing clearly worse than all.

They aren't rich rich but over the last 10 years the gap in disposable income is getting massive between us and Ireland. They are clearly better off than us and have been for years and are projected to going forward. It's not just one section of the population its every quota of the population.

I don't think there is many people left that don't agree we would be better off back in the EU

[archie]

Irrelevant. There's no need to compare ourselves with other EU countries. Simple point is - Brexit is costing us money for zero benefit. Therefore, being back in the EU we would be better off than we are now. Simple.
You might be right. But it's other posters who major on the comparisons. And given the discussion above, any viewing the basis of a Scottish negotiation or timescales? The reality is it may take some time

[archie]

I never mentioned gbp as Ireland is an outlier. Its better to compare our gdp with the rest of the g7 we are doing clearly worse than all.

They aren't rich rich but over the last 10 years the gap in disposable income is getting massive between us and Ireland. They are clearly better off than us and have been for years and are projected to going forward. It's not just one section of the population its every quota of the population.

I don't think there is many people left that don't agree we would be better off back in the EU
I don't doubt Ireland is doing well. But I don't think the distinction isas clear cut as you think. It can also vary over time. There is no doubt that Brexit was an additional shock to the UK economy that we could have done without. Still no NHS though.

[Ozyhibby]

I don't doubt Ireland is doing well. But I don't think the distinction isas clear cut as you think. It can also vary over time. There is no doubt that Brexit was an additional shock to the UK economy that we could have done without. Still no NHS though.

And yet they live longer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[archie]

And yet they live longer.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Again you are quoting snapshots as absolute cast in stone. These figures could change next year.

[Stairway 2 7]

Again you are quoting snapshots as absolute cast in stone. These figures could change next year.

Everything could change in theory Bhutan could have an economy bigger than China but it goes against every projection. The same goes for the projections the uk performing worse than every g7 nation or the gap in disposable income to keep growing between us and Ireland

[Ozyhibby]

Again you are quoting snapshots as absolute cast in stone. These figures could change next year.

Do you think it’s about to swing in our favour?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Do you think it’s about to swing in our favour?

"Provides data to support argument ...".

Response:

"Ah, but what if the data changes in future ...?"

[archie]

Everything could change in theory Bhutan could have an economy bigger than China but it goes against every projection. The same goes for the projections the uk performing worse than every g7 nation or the gap in disposable income to keep growing between us and Ireland

Of course. But in my view Ireland is very exposed because of its reliance on low business taxes to pull in investment. This means that the economy is more vulnerable to external economic shocks than say Germany. As we have seen in recent history it is more boom and bust. Some on this board want that. But if we compare the UK to Ireland what are we getting at. Their membership of the EU or their business friendly tax regime? It's hard to disentangle, but I would say the EU benefits were about building infrastructure and modernising the country along with the single market. But the explosive growth was driven by low business tax driven investment and debt.

So I guess the question about the Irish model is what would we want to adopt. I would like to be in the EU, but wouldn't like their low business tax model

[archie]

"Provides data to support argument ...".

Response:

"Ah, but what if the data changes in future ...?"

Well you do know that circumstances change over time and that will be reflected in data. It's not a fixed point.

[archie]

Do you think it’s about to swing in our favour?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No idea.

[Kato]

I don't doubt Ireland is doing well. But I don't think the distinction isas clear cut as you think. It can also vary over time. There is no doubt that Brexit was an additional shock to the UK economy that we could have done without. Still no NHS though.A "shock" infers a one off affect. Brexit wasn't a shock, its having an ongoing effect which in the midst of it is hard to quantify but its nor over yet.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Smartie]

Of course. But in my view Ireland is very exposed because of its reliance on low business taxes to pull in investment. This means that the economy is more vulnerable to external economic shocks than say Germany. As we have seen in recent history it is more boom and bust. Some on this board want that. But if we compare the UK to Ireland what are we getting at. Their membership of the EU or their business friendly tax regime? It's hard to disentangle, but I would say the EU benefits were about building infrastructure and modernising the country along with the single market. But the explosive growth was driven by low business tax driven investment and debt.

So I guess the question about the Irish model is what would we want to adopt. I would like to be in the EU, but wouldn't like their low business tax model

I agree with your general premise that Ireland isn't the land of milk and honey where everything is rosy and always will be.

But by almost any metric they're doing better than Scotland and look likely to continue to do so.

I'm actually finding this part of the debate quite interesting - what they're doing right, what might be leaving them exposed, what we might learn from them and what we might do well to run a mile from.

[Ozyhibby]

Is Ireland more boom and bust than the UK?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[archie]

A "shock" infers a one off affect. Brexit wasn't a shock, its having an ongoing effect which in the midst of it is hard to quantify but its nor over yet.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Well the shocks to the economy were Brexit, COVID and Ukraine. The oil price shock of the early 70s had a long lasting impact.

[Kato]

Well the shocks to the economy were Brexit, COVID and Ukraine. The oil price shock of the early 70s had a long lasting impact.Ok. I implied your inference was erroneous, but I was.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[archie]

Is Ireland more boom and bust than the UK?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I would say so, but sometimes it is for understandable reasons. This is an interesting (but quite lengthy) analysis of the last 100 years! https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/share/XV2S35NDNWTBHF56CNHQ?target=10.1111/ehr.13106

[Ozyhibby]

I would say so, but sometimes it is for understandable reasons. This is an interesting (but quite lengthy) analysis of the last 100 years! https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/share/XV2S35NDNWTBHF56CNHQ?target=10.1111/ehr.13106

I would say 100 years ago the UK was way richer. It made it so. I’m more interested in the last 30 years?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[archie]

I would say 100 years ago the UK was way richer. It made it so. I’m more interested in the last 30 years?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Well it uses the period up to the 80s to frame what happened then.

[archie]

US news report https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/08/irish-gdp-is-growing-steadily-but-a-cost-of-living-crisis-still-looms.html

A more historical left perspective

https://www.socialeurope.eu/irelands-route-from-boom-to-bubble-to-bust
https://www.socialeurope.eu/irelands-recovery-from-bust-to-buoyancy-to-brexit

[Kato]

I would say 100 years ago the UK was way richer. It made it so. I’m more interested in the last 30 years?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIreland was rich but the UK exploited it.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[archie]

Ireland was rich but the UK exploited it.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Do you want to say more about what you mean?

[Kato]

Do you want to say more about what you mean?What I mean? When Ireland gained independence it was in chaos. Before then GB treated it as a breadbasket. You have heard of the Irish Potato Famine? The potato famine didnt cause starvation, it only had an affect on the potato crop. The export from Ireland of perfectly good produce to GB dinner tables, which continued well after the 1840's.

Colonial exploitation doesn't come in a more obvious story.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[archie]

What I mean? When Ireland gained independence it was in chaos. Before then GB treated it as a breadbasket. You have heard of the Irish Potato Famine? The potato famine didnt cause starvation, it only had an affect on the potato crop. The export from Ireland of perfectly good produce to GB dinner tables, which continued well after the 1840's.

Colonial exploitation doesn't come in a more obvious story.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk
I was more trying to tease out what you mean by 'rich'. I am, of course' aware of the potato famine. I'm trying to work out how Ireland would fit in the traditional colonial model - exploitation for primary products and tethered market for manufactured goods. None of this suggests I approve of what was done in Ireland.

[Kato]

Rich in agrictiral produce and workers.
Rich in industrial workers and know how.

It was also rich in aristocratic landowners and exploitative industrialists who carted the riches into their own pockets but, it was still rich.


Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Microsoft, on setting up a business in the UK:

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FutTtKcWAAQkBBf?format=jpg&name=medium

[Glory Lurker]

As the Microsoft deal is potentially going to be challenged in the US and the EU is going slow on it, I don't think the Microsoft man's targeting is fair.

[One Day Soon]

As the Microsoft deal is potentially going to be challenged in the US and the EU is going slow on it, I don't think the Microsoft man's targeting is fair.

Microsoft. Couldn't happen to a nicer bunch of sharks.

[cabbageandribs1875]

great speech from John Nicolson :agree:

https://www.facebook.com/TheLondonEconomic/videos/1201461643857907



#BrexitReality

[grunt]

https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/guy-hands-i-thought-brexit-was-frankly-nuts/


“What Brexit was largely about was people at the top being able to employ the rest of the country for a lot less and pay a lot less tax,” he says

[grunt]

Turkeys & Christmas

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fvt24M3WwAMIyur?format=png&name=900x900

[Jones28]

Turkeys & Christmas

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fvt24M3WwAMIyur?format=png&name=900x900

The 6-day, 60 hour week beckons. :deal:

[grunt]

The 6-day, 60 hour week beckons. :deal:It's what we voted for.

[grunt]

I hope the Brexiters rot in hell for what they've done to this country.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FvyKnfqWAAAvo1h?format=jpg&name=900x900

[Stairway 2 7]

Stop thread. I've found a brexit benefit the right to have more arsenic in our baby food. No red tape for us take that remoaners

https://twitter.com/Otto_English/status/1656694937017090050

[BroxburnHibee]

Is invoking the Iraq war lies always a legitimate way to counter anything Alistair Campbell says?

Personally I loved him taking a pop at the BBC in this.......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5S0FPK2RHI&lc=Ugz6TcoNVqA83Tgj1RR4AaABAg.9pbO3qb0ZgR9pbRkgPqy gJ

[Bristolhibby]

Is invoking the Iraq war lies always a legitimate way to counter anything Alistair Campbell says?

Personally I loved him taking a pop at the BBC in this.......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5S0FPK2RHI&lc=Ugz6TcoNVqA83Tgj1RR4AaABAg.9pbO3qb0ZgR9pbRkgPqy gJ

Ignoring the point that ALL but two Tories voted with the Government on the vote to Invade Iraq. That was 2 out of 166 Tories.

Out of 410 Labour MPs 84 voted against the war. A much higher proportion.

An absolute nonsense (and well dated) attack line.

J

[Kato]

Is invoking the Iraq war lies always a legitimate way to counter anything Alistair Campbell says?

Personally I loved him taking a pop at the BBC in this.......


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z5S0FPK2RHI&lc=Ugz6TcoNVqA83Tgj1RR4AaABAg.9pbO3qb0ZgR9pbRkgPqy gJAlways good to reveal these people for the grifters they are.

https://twitter.com/Channel4News/status/1151165049706299392?t=q6UEdSty2mcPX2E_bVQapA&s=19


Caught lying about lying and tries to intimidate the person doing the catching.




Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Something nobody wanted which provides no additional value but was argued about for years is no longer going to happen.
Brexit in a nutshell.

What a momentously stupid waste of time and money.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwFzQotWwAAJlAu?format=jpg&name=large

[Moulin Yarns]

Something nobody wanted which provides no additional value but was argued about for years is no longer going to happen.
Brexit in a nutshell.

What a momentously stupid waste of time and money.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FwFzQotWwAAJlAu?format=jpg&name=large

I sell in 50g and 100g, but for Americans who are a decent percentage of my customers I include imperial measures

[grunt]

Brexit: so much winning.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-65612295\


One of the world's biggest carmakers has called on the government to renegotiate part of the Brexit deal or risk losing parts of its car industry. Stellantis, which makes Vauxhall, Peugeot, Citroen and Fiat had committed to making electric vehicles in the UK.

But it has now said it is no longer able to meet Brexit trade rules on where parts are sourced.

[JimBHibees]

Turkeys & Christmas

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fvt24M3WwAMIyur?format=png&name=900x900

Change would not compromise workers rights :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/migration-nation-brexit-has-meant-more-immigration-than-ever/

This will upset a good proportion of Brexit voters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Lendo]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/migration-nation-brexit-has-meant-more-immigration-than-ever/

This will upset a good proportion of Brexit voters.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have never read so much pish in my whole life. It’s beyond satire

26741

[Jack]

I have never read so much pish in my whole life. It’s beyond satire

26741

Just an example of why the spectator shouldn't be quoted as serious journalism.

How it keeps going financially is one of life's mysteries. Well that and the Torygraph. The surviving Barclay billionaire owner living mostly abroad for healthy tax reasons!

[Ozyhibby]

Just an example of why the spectator shouldn't be quoted as serious journalism.

How it keeps going financially is one of life's mysteries. Well that and the Torygraph. The surviving Barclay billionaire owner living mostly abroad for healthy tax reasons!

Given that most newspapers are losing money these days yet all seem to survive suggests they have value for the influence they exert on public life well beyond any monetary value.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

It put up a data thread before showing uk has one of the most positive attitudes to immigration internationally.

There is obviously a % of bigots in our nation like all nations. The problem is our government is made up of that group, perhaps one of the problems with fptp. Although other European nations like Italy and Poland also have the far right in charge. Unfortunately for the bigots brexit hasn't stopped immigration, 1 million net is close to the number expected to be announced next week, marvellous

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1525766141276299264

Decent thread

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1525766106119606273

John Burn-Murdoch
@jburnmurdoch
It’s also useful to look at the international context:

British attitudes towards immigrants today rank among the most positive globally.

To be clear, "better than other places" absolutely does not mean "beyond reproach", but the context is still worth noting

[Kato]

Given that most newspapers are losing money these days yet all seem to survive suggests they have value for the influence they exert on public life well beyond any monetary value.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkA loss leader in favour of their political party.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[grunt]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/22/uk-fruit-exports-to-eu-have-dropped-by-more-than-half-since-brexit?CMP=share_btn_tw


In the year to 31 March 2021, the UK sold £248.5m worth of fruit to the EU. But sales figures dropped to £119m the next year, and have remained at that level since, with latest tax data showing sales for the year to March 2023 of £113.8m.

[Jack]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/may/22/uk-fruit-exports-to-eu-have-dropped-by-more-than-half-since-brexit?CMP=share_btn_tw

Another Brexit benefit 🙄

We should all be eating more fruit anyway 😠

[Bostonhibby]

Another Brexit benefit [emoji849]

We should all be eating more fruit anyway [emoji34]If only we had access to a workforce ready and willing to pick it all[emoji6]

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[grunt]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fwumc4KXsAUhz7R?format=jpg&name=large

[Stairway 2 7]

Delicious. The brexit voters will be fuming. A destroyed economy and a record net immigration of 600,000+ announced today, that's not what we voted for!. Read today that UKs population is going to overtake France in 2 years for the first time ever, due to expected immigration we are 700k behind them, UK 600k France 150k net this year

[IberianHibernian]

People pick up on immigration to UK and Brexit but what about British citizens not able to work in the EU ?
People who used to spend the summer working in clubs in Ibiza or the skiing season in the Alps .
People who used to teach English in Italy or Spain .
People who acted or played music in the EU .
Etc etc In most cases young people who gained valuable work experience , learnt languages , built bridges between countries ....
Always talk of making agreements to make it easier to work in EU but these things will take time .

[Ozyhibby]

People pick up on immigration to UK and Brexit but what about British citizens not able to work in the EU ?
People who used to spend the summer working in clubs in Ibiza or the skiing season in the Alps .
People who used to teach English in Italy or Spain .
People who acted or played music in the EU .
Etc etc In most cases young people who gained valuable work experience , learnt languages , built bridges between countries ....
Always talk of making agreements to make it easier to work in EU but these things will take time .

I usually go to Tenerife in October to the same place and it is having a massive effect on business there not being able to get entertainers and hospitality staff from the UK. And as someone who loves a good tribute act, fair spoils my holiday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

The tories and Labour are out of touch with the public on immigration polling shows

https://archive.ph/sxyPP

Financial Times

The Tories are out of touch with voters when it comes to immigration
Also in this week’s newsletter: a new poll shows two-thirds of voters believe leaving the EU has been a failure

[degenerated]

I usually go to Tenerife in October to the same place and it is having a massive effect on business there not being able to get entertainers and hospitality staff from the UK. And as someone who loves a good tribute act, fair spoils my holiday.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIf it stops shan tribute acts like take this, paella Fitzgerald and Elvis parsley etc then I think that must be the first actual Brexit bonus :hilarious

[Stairway 2 7]

Focus group of immigrants say uk is full of opportunity, open mindedness and drinking problems ha

https://archive.ph/H0Cbh

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/350523936_640012460940788_1323645103295042674_n.jp g?stp=cp6_dst-jpg&_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=GF9N9i_PrF0AX8a7uKv&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AfAdgVK6tRooPQWKLGIBx0EPecHQHdUWiG_CsgchobB5 ag&oe=647CB457

[grunt]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/business-economics/brexit-will-be-remembered-as-a-historic-economic-error-larry-summers-349928/?fbclid=IwAR2Bckr_GoOM4OY1E3KCA7e7iSOTvIauFjfD8AxF BLhcaIyclp2pcvSxN5o


The former secretary of the Treasury, who has also served as director of the National Economic Council and president of Harvard University, told BBC Radio 4’s Today programme that the UK’s split with the EU will be remembered as a “historic economic error” which has helped to drive up inflation.

Summer said: “I think Brexit will be remembered as a historic economic error that reduced the competitiveness of the UK economy, put downward pressure on the pound and upwards pressure on prices, limited imports of goods and limited in some ways the supply of labour.”

[tamig]

I usually go to Tenerife in October to the same place and it is having a massive effect on business there not being able to get entertainers and hospitality staff from the UK. And as someone who loves a good tribute act, fair spoils my holiday.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Plenty there when I was over last week.

[Jones28]

Australian news team pissing themselves laughing at how pitiful the Australia trade deal actually is.

They think all we have to export is black pudding and spice girls cd's. Yay.

https://twitter.com/AlexTaylorNews/status/1664543922381807618?s=20

[Stairway 2 7]

Australian news team pissing themselves laughing at how pitiful the Australia trade deal actually is.

They think all we have to export is black pudding and spice girls cd's. Yay.

https://twitter.com/AlexTaylorNews/status/1664543922381807618?s=20



We're the 8th biggest exporter in the world 550,000 Mill dollars to Australia's 340,000 million. Problem is we should be sending it in a like minded agreement to Europe, not the ecological nonsense of sending it across the world for a worse deal. Brexit is a joke right enough though

[Jack]

We're the 8th biggest exporter in the world 550,000 Mill dollars to Australia's 340,000 million. Problem is we should be sending it in a like minded agreement to Europe, not the ecological nonsense of sending it across the world for a worse deal. Brexit is a joke right enough though

Where did you get these figures?

I don't think they're correct.

2022
Uk to world £781bn

Uk to Oz £10.6bn

[Jones28]

We're the 8th biggest exporter in the world 550,000 Mill dollars to Australia's 340,000 million. Problem is we should be sending it in a like minded agreement to Europe, not the ecological nonsense of sending it across the world for a worse deal. Brexit is a joke right enough though

Think your figures need looking at Stairway, unless these are figures from UK to Aus?

[Stairway 2 7]

World trade organisation just merchandise exports

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports

Others have us 5th with all exports. Point is Australia's are much smaller so there gloating is a bit daft.

https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/exports-by-country

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/otto_english/status/1664365038935703552?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Chris Patten last night.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

Getting wider in the polls it will hit breaking point soon

@Omnisis
According to our latest Brexit sentiment tracker, the UK would love to say “I’ll be back” to the European Union:

* All *
❎ Stay Out: 31% (-2)
☑️ Re-join: 49% (+2)

* Exc DKs*
❎ Stay Out: 39% (-2)
☑️ Re-join: 61% (+2)

[Ozyhibby]

Getting wider in the polls it will hit breaking point soon

@Omnisis
According to our latest Brexit sentiment tracker, the UK would love to say “I’ll be back” to the European Union:

* All *
[emoji735] Stay Out: 31% (-2)
[emoji3514] Re-join: 49% (+2)

* Exc DKs*
[emoji735] Stay Out: 39% (-2)
[emoji3514] Re-join: 61% (+2)

Only one party offering that unfortunately.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bristolhibby]

Only one party offering that unfortunately.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Isn’t it two? SNP and Lib Dems. Three if you count Greens.

Down here in rural Wiltshire, it’s Lib Dems or Tories. With Tories a shoe in in my constituency.

J

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/haggis_uk/status/1666791407078580226?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Barnier says you are either in or out of the SM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibrandenburg]

https://twitter.com/haggis_uk/status/1666791407078580226?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Barnier says you are either in or out of the SM.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That this still has to be said 7 years after the UK voted to leave the EU is mind boggling, as a country we are thick as ****.

[Bostonhibby]

That this still has to be said 7 years after the UK voted to leave the EU is mind boggling, as a country we are thick as ****.Jeez, someone in there has deflected off into highlighting the Eurozone being in recession.

Lucky our post brexit economy compares so well.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[grunt]

The oracle speaks.

https://www.politico.eu/article/noel-gallagher-england-is-****-because-brexit/


Former Oasis songwriter and guitarist Noel Gallagher reckons his homeland is “****” and “**** all works” — and it’s because of Brexit.

Speaking to the NME (https://twitter.com/mikegalsworthy/status/1666383786693517312?s=20), Gallagher said: “What has happened to this country? I have no idea, well I have an idea, Brexit happened … A lot of people fell under some kind of mass hypnosis. But yeah, it’s **** England now. And it was going downhill for a bit but actually, **** all works.”

[grunt]

Michael Heseltine:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/11/boris-johnsons-legacy-he-has-ruined-britains-place-in-the-world?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


But his (Johnson) real legacy is Brexit, the biggest historic mistake this country has made in peacetime.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.cityam.com/brexit-cited-as-major-concern-as-us-business-confidence-in-britain-drops/

No end in sight either with Labour committed to brexit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[JimBHibees]

Michael Heseltine:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/jun/11/boris-johnsons-legacy-he-has-ruined-britains-place-in-the-world?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Did he say that at the time?

[Jones28]

https://www.cityam.com/brexit-cited-as-major-concern-as-us-business-confidence-in-britain-drops/

No end in sight either with Labour committed to brexit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They’ve backed themselves in to a corner now, doubling down time and time again means the official line of the Labour Party is no different to “get Brexit done”.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/johnspringford/status/1668613874017521666?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Unthinkable just a few short years ago.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/edwinhayward/status/1669634460713615361?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Another Brexit benefit heading our way.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fy1KZt7WIAAH_xx?format=jpg&name=large

[Smartie]

Just watching Question Time for the first time in ages.

Have our pals South of the border completely lost their minds?

I'm all for agreeing to disagree and respecting other people's opinions but I don't think I've ever seen such levels of delusion and outright stupidity in my entire life.

Dangerous, empty skulled imbeciles, both on the panel and in the audience.

Alastair Campbell in the middle of it all looks like he's attempting to play chess with a bunch of pigeons.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pigeon_chess

[TrumpIsAPeado]

I don't think I've ever seen such levels of delusion and outright stupidity in my entire life.

I have. The last time I watched Question Time about 5 years ago. They're all bad actors who are brought on to push the agenda of the political right. Some of them are miraculously picked (totally at random of course :faf:) to appear in the audience over and over again. I wouldn't waste anymore time on it.

[lapsedhibee]

Just watching Question Time for the first time in ages.

Have our pals South of the border completely lost their minds?

I'm all for agreeing to disagree and respecting other people's opinions but I don't think I've ever seen such levels of delusion and outright stupidity in my entire life.

Dangerous, empty skulled imbeciles, both on the panel and in the audience.


Just accept it. Germans don't abide by health and safety rules and Brits do. :agree:

[Mibbes Aye]

Just accept it. Germans don't abide by health and safety rules and Brits do. :agree:

That was a belter. Britain being robbed because we put kickbooards on scaffolding.

When Fiona Bruce described the demographic at the start I feared the worst but that exceeded my expectations by a good old proper Essex country mile.

[neil7908]

There was a lot of talk after the referendum about remainers being arrogant, belittling people, not understanding the reasons why people voted Brexit, being out of touch etc.

Well we've had 7 years debate now and my capacity for listening and understanding has gone. Why?

Because every argument given in support of their position was total bollocks at the time, and has now been definitively proven to be total bollocks in reality.

I read what I initially thought was a welcome opinion poll showing Brexit voters admitting it's not been a success. However, 61% thought it would still be a success. And of course, the blame for this failure lies with the politicians who implemented it, despite the last 3 PMs (including this one) being die in the wool Brexiters.

So I think it's frankly time we stopped listening to these people, or giving their demonstrably false and lunatic views any oxygen. They have ruined our country and made every single one of us poorer.

If you voted for Brexit at the time but have now accepted the mistake I have a lot of time for you, as ultimately you were lied to for years by an extraordinary sophisticated media and political machine.

But if you STILL support it now? Well, you deserve only mockery and contempt.

[Hibrandenburg]

There was a lot of talk after the referendum about remainers being arrogant, belittling people, not understanding the reasons why people voted Brexit, being out of touch etc.

Well we've had 7 years debate now and my capacity for listening and understanding has gone. Why?

Because every argument given in support of their position was total bollocks at the time, and has now been definitively proven to be total bollocks in reality.

I read what I initially thought was a welcome opinion poll showing Brexit voters admitting it's not been a success. However, 61% thought it would still be a success. And of course, the blame for this failure lies with the politicians who implemented it, despite the last 3 PMs (including this one) being die in the wool Brexiters.

So I think it's frankly time we stopped listening to these people, or giving their demonstrably false and lunatic views any oxygen. They have ruined our country and made every single one of us poorer.

If you voted for Brexit at the time but have now accepted the mistake I have a lot of time for you, as ultimately you were lied to for years by an extraordinary sophisticated media and political machine.

But if you STILL support it now? Well, you deserve only mockery and contempt.

It's painful to watch. Some of the audience are simply deranged. The country is screaming out for real leadership and someone with an actual plan that gets the electorate behind them but instead we have a bunch of spineless populists chasing the votes of idiots and having to pander to their idiotic beliefs.

[J-C]

Just watching Question Time for the first time in ages.

Have our pals South of the border completely lost their minds?

I'm all for agreeing to disagree and respecting other people's opinions but I don't think I've ever seen such levels of delusion and outright stupidity in my entire life.

Dangerous, empty skulled imbeciles, both on the panel and in the audience.

Alastair Campbell in the middle of it all looks like he's attempting to play chess with a bunch of pigeons.

https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Pigeon_chess

Wasn't watching, had the channel on but muted, I unmuted it and thought, jeez they're still as thick as ****, 70% of the audience still thought Brexit was correct. Millionaire business man and Tory MP saying Brexit hasn't affected inflation or national problems, a business expert and Alistair Campbell saying yes it has, we need away from that lot pronto.

[grunt]

Against the law to fly the EU flag from Government buildings in England without approval from the local authority.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jun/23/london-mayors-office-banned-from-flying-eu-flag-on-referendum-anniversary?CMP=share_btn_tw


Ministers have been accused of criminalising the flying of the European Union (https://www.theguardian.com/world/eu) flag on government buildings in England after London’s City Hall was told it could be prosecuted for displaying it on the anniversary of the Brexit referendum.

Seven years after the referendum on leaving the EU, the Greater London (https://www.theguardian.com/uk/london) authority (GLA) had planned to fly the flag on Friday but officials were advised that under the latest regulations they would need to secure permission from the local authority.

Without so-called advertising consent from Newham council, City Hall, which is the headquarters of the GLA and is where Sadiq Khan (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/sadiq-khan), the capital’s mayor, is based, would have been liable to criminal prosecution under the amended town and country planning (control of advertisements) regulations.

[grunt]

Like him or hate him, he's called this right IMO

https://twitter.com/LondonEconomic/status/1672100605190455300?s=20

[Smartie]

Like him or hate him, he's called this right IMO

https://twitter.com/LondonEconomic/status/1672100605190455300?s=20

I've grown to really like him over the years.

[grunt]

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-fisheries-uk-industry-betrayal/

How Brexit betrayed the UK fishing industry


Brexit, Wilson concluded, has been “absolutely, fundamentally, profoundly devastating.”

“It’s utterly ****ed us,” he said. “Everyone else said, ‘Oh, don’t worry, it will be fine.’ I just knew it would **** us, and it has.”

[grunt]

A snapshot of the audience for the #BBCQT Brexit special, with an audience of Brexit supporters.
Notice anything about the people in the audience?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzQ_zhsWcAIv51m?format=jpg&name=medium

[grunt]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-food-trade-eu-labour-b2362943.html

British meat and fish exports to EU slump by half since Brexit


Meat exports to EU countries – as measured by weight – declined by 42 per cent from December 2020 to March 2023, according to Labour analysis of government trade data.

The shock figures also show a 45 per cent slide in the net mass of fish, crustacean and mollusc exported to Europe over the same period.

[Kato]

https://www.politico.eu/article/brexit-fisheries-uk-industry-betrayal/

How Brexit betrayed the UK fishing industryThink of all opportunities to set our hands alight though.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Jones28]

A snapshot of the audience for the #BBCQT Brexit special, with an audience of Brexit supporters.
Notice anything about the people in the audience?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FzQ_zhsWcAIv51m?format=jpg&name=medium

Ahh there's the queen of scaffolders in the bottom right corner.

They're just missing the fat **** who said he watched people go from ferries to benefits offices.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Brexit Benefit No 465512610

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/352808777_6349092731803319_6583515277285974842_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=4u9ytBSKTfwAX8zWVqt&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAxjAlEejr7CO6lI5HWdc-zQ6s555Y_xAPKLKtWgWi6Ew&oe=649ADBD4

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Brexit Benefit No 465512610

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/352808777_6349092731803319_6583515277285974842_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&cb=99be929b-3346023f&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=4u9ytBSKTfwAX8zWVqt&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=00_AfAxjAlEejr7CO6lI5HWdc-zQ6s555Y_xAPKLKtWgWi6Ew&oe=649ADBD4

He could be selling pints at 8p and I wouldn't step foot in one of his establishments. His pubs are as soulless as himself.

[Lendo]

https://twitter.com/bmay/status/1671967496998453249?t=9T9UMVEm5_BR9vdfIHm3jg&s=08

BREXIT voter in a nutshell

[Since90+2]

Honestly, let's get the **** out of the UK and join the EU as an independent nation.

I cannot for the life of me understand how people can't see that is the best way forward for our country.

[weecounty hibby]

Honestly, let's get the **** out of the UK and join the EU as an independent nation.

I cannot for the life of me understand how people can't see that is the best way forward for our country.
Not sure if you've noticed but one of the unionist arguments is look how bad brexit is so Scottish independence will be worse!! But yes, I wholehearted agree with you

[Jones28]

Honestly, let's get the **** out of the UK and join the EU as an independent nation.

I cannot for the life of me understand how people can't see that is the best way forward for our country.

Let the unionists explain why this is a bad idea.

InSTaBIlTY

[Ozyhibby]

Let the unionists explain why this is a bad idea.

InSTaBIlTY

Oh no. I’d hate for there to be some instability.[emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

Let the unionists explain why this is a bad idea.

InSTaBIlTYThe EU is full of foreigners, none of which are like the Russians we still allow to hide out in post Brexit UK and that's before we spend too much time looking at who has been legally allowed in since

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/admit-brexit-mistake-rejoin-single-market-senior-tory-tobias-ellwood-2450612

Can see us being back in the SM within 10 years.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/williamnhutton/status/1676867976706883584?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Another Brexit bonus? It’s amazing Labour still want to stick with Brexit.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

Guy Hands: ‘I thought Brexit was frankly nuts’ - The New European (https://www.theneweuropean.co.uk/guy-hands-i-thought-brexit-was-frankly-nuts/?fbclid=IwAR1SMUAm25jCX5tuAeU3KduVPGn5oDHXpk_uPQ1l u9v2bwcn2urWoLTsRIk)

and BritNats in Scotland want us to stay chained to Westminster :rolleyes: the Starmarites and the Sunakites

[grunt]

More Brexit lies from the lying liars at the Tory party

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F1EQb9PWwAA5Q-f?format=jpg&name=large

[lapsedhibee]

More Brexit lies from the lying liars at the Tory party

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F1EQb9PWwAA5Q-f?format=jpg&name=large

"Why do you hate Britain so much?" :rolleyes:

[Hibrandenburg]

More Brexit lies from the lying liars at the Tory party

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F1EQb9PWwAA5Q-f?format=jpg&name=large

They're great at polishing turds.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/williamnhutton/status/1681229555988611072?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

EU support eclipses Brexit as 'bregret' hits record high, YouGov finds | The National (https://www.thenational.scot/news/23661780.eu-support-eclipses-brexit-bregret-hits-record-high-yougov-finds/?fbclid=IwAR3inGm7rX2U0uBH17rSBQ7qzLst1_XvPPLeP76W OHHcP-hhwO_iEpC3ZIo)

A RESOUNDING majority of voters across the UK would vote to rejoin the European Union in a second referendum on the issue, newly published polling has suggested
.
YouGov polling of British voters further found that more people than ever think the UK was wrong to choose Brexit (https://www.thenational.scot/news/brexit/), and that even a firm majority of Leave voters believe it is being handled badly.

In its headline figures, the damning polling found that some 61% of people would back rejoining the EU against just 39% who would support keeping Brexit in place.
With Don’t Knows included, people backing rejoin are still in the majority (51%) while those who back Brexit represent less than one-third (32%).

YouGov said the results were a “substantial change” from early 2021, where rejoin only narrowly led (42% vs 40%).

[TrumpIsAPeado]

EU support eclipses Brexit as 'bregret' hits record high, YouGov finds | The National (https://www.thenational.scot/news/23661780.eu-support-eclipses-brexit-bregret-hits-record-high-yougov-finds/?fbclid=IwAR3inGm7rX2U0uBH17rSBQ7qzLst1_XvPPLeP76W OHHcP-hhwO_iEpC3ZIo)

A RESOUNDING majority of voters across the UK would vote to rejoin the European Union in a second referendum on the issue, newly published polling has suggested
.
YouGov polling of British voters further found that more people than ever think the UK was wrong to choose Brexit (https://www.thenational.scot/news/brexit/), and that even a firm majority of Leave voters believe it is being handled badly.

In its headline figures, the damning polling found that some 61% of people would back rejoining the EU against just 39% who would support keeping Brexit in place.
With Don’t Knows included, people backing rejoin are still in the majority (51%) while those who back Brexit represent less than one-third (32%).

YouGov said the results were a “substantial change” from early 2021, where rejoin only narrowly led (42% vs 40%).

Yet according to Kid Starver, there's no political will to rejoin the EU and that's that.

[grunt]

Yet according to Kid Starver, there's no political will to rejoin the EU and that's that.
Yet another misstep by Starmer, IMO.

But what do I know?

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/lizwebstersbf/status/1682311270236663808?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

For the cyclists on here:

https://road.cc/content/news/brexit-blamed-uk-distributor-fli-ceases-trading-302665


“If you voted for Brexit, please realise this is 90% because of your decision”: UK cycle distributor FLi ceases trading

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/22/we-are-at-50-of-the-quota-we-had-boss-of-uks-last-long-range-trawler-rues-squandered-brexit-hopes?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/22/we-are-at-50-of-the-quota-we-had-boss-of-uks-last-long-range-trawler-rues-squandered-brexit-hopes?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

A good example of how fish stocks have been depleted over the years.

[Bostonhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2023/jul/22/we-are-at-50-of-the-quota-we-had-boss-of-uks-last-long-range-trawler-rues-squandered-brexit-hopes?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWhat's the fish equivalent of turkeys voting for xmas?

I just don't understand how this could happen as I distinctly recall seeing Bozo waving a kipper in a plastic bag around, presumably this convinced many in Brexit supporting Hull?

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230723/05e890d5ffd6c32a6cf2c71f28945205.jpg

That’s some brass neck. He’s correct of course. Shame half of Scotland can’t see it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibrandenburg]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230723/05e890d5ffd6c32a6cf2c71f28945205.jpg

That’s some brass neck. He’s correct of course. Shame half of Scotland can’t see it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Things aren't going to get better either. Everything is becoming more expensive domestically and the pound having hardly devalued against the Euro makes it even more difficult after Brexit to export anything.

I'm in England next week for 3 weeks holiday but it will be the last for a while, simply due to the cost factor, holidaying in the UK at present just isn't great value for money.

[Stairway 2 7]

Britain isn't poor nation that is getting the tories out of jail. Its the 6th biggest economy in the world 28th gdp. Most in the world would risk there lives to have our standard of living. Our problem is redistribution of wealth.

Even with brexit staying as is the uk and Germany will be the only European countries in the top 10 economies in 2050, with uk getting closer to Germany than now.
https://www.pwc.co.uk/press-room/press-releases/regions/northern-ireland/world-in-2050.html

The tories are deliberately keeping the vast monies near the top in society, I'm not sure Starmer has the bottle to change that

[Stairway 2 7]

61% of people would vote to rejoin eu

https://twitter.com/edwinhayward/status/1682679927206715393

[Lendo]

Putting this here as it’s Brexit related.

Bought a pair of running shoes from eBay. Posted to me from Lithuania. Cost was £160.

Just got a Royal Mail note through the door saying I must pay £71.75 in Customs Charges for them to be delivered.

£71.75!

How are these charges calculated?! How can I dispute? This is mental.

[Hibrandenburg]

Putting this here as it’s Brexit related.

Bought a pair of running shoes from eBay. Posted to me from Lithuania. Cost was £160.

Just got a Royal Mail note through the door saying I must pay £71.75 in Customs Charges for them to be delivered.

£71.75!

How are these charges calculated?! How can I dispute? This is mental.

I mentioned this earlier in the thread, it's the same (not quite that extreme) the other way round and has been since Brexit. I've stopped buying goods from the UK for exactly that reason. I'm back on a 3 week holiday next week and need to stop myself buying anything that might be pounced on by customs on my return.

[nonshinyfinish]

Putting this here as it’s Brexit related.

Bought a pair of running shoes from eBay. Posted to me from Lithuania. Cost was £160.

Just got a Royal Mail note through the door saying I must pay £71.75 in Customs Charges for them to be delivered.

£71.75!

How are these charges calculated?! How can I dispute? This is mental.

Because the value is over £135 you have to pay duty: https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

It's not clear how much that should be, the page just says "The rate depends on the type of goods and where they came from - call the helpline".

It's possible that the seller hasn't included UK VAT in the price (or they have but haven't done the right paperwork, or they have done the right paperwork but UK Customs hasn't accepted it for some reason). If you're being charged VAT (£32) + duty + an admin fee it could easily add up to your total.

[Lendo]

Because the value is over £135 you have to pay duty: https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty

It's not clear how much that should be, the page just says "The rate depends on the type of goods and where they came from - call the helpline".

It's possible that the seller hasn't included UK VAT in the price (or they have but haven't done the right paperwork, or they have done the right paperwork but UK Customs hasn't accepted it for some reason). If you're being charged VAT (£32) + duty + an admin fee it could easily add up to your total.

That all makes sense. Absolutely brutal. It should have probably crossed my mind when I ordered them, live and learn I guess.

[grunt]

Brexit going well, then.


The police has lost access to the EU’s largest security database, SIS II, which it had consulted 603 million times in 2019. 13 EU Member States have also stopped extraditing suspects to the UK. This can result in offenders not being prosecuted or in victims and witnesses having to take part in proceedings abroad.

https://committees.parliament.uk/committee/519/justice-and-home-affairs-committee/news/196694/lords-committee-finds-that-postbrexit-ukeu-security-cooperation-is-suboptimal/

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/brexitbin/status/1684970280832180233?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

https://twitter.com/brexitbin/status/1684970280832180233?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

They bought the house last year!

[Jack]

https://twitter.com/brexitbin/status/1684970280832180233?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

When I talk about folk voting for Brexit being idiots he's the apex Brexit idiot I'm talking about. Just what did he think was going to happen?

[Bostonhibby]

They bought the house last year!Aye, but he supported Brexit and as we know Bozo sorted the EU out so it's no wonder he can't get his head round this one [emoji16]

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[TrumpIsAPeado]

https://twitter.com/brexitbin/status/1684970280832180233?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The one good thing to come out of brexit is the kick in the chops of those that voted for it, particularly the British ̶e̶x̶p̶a̶t̶s̶ immigrants being booted out of their homes. Perhaps they can be rounded up and kept on a boat.

[HiBremian]

The one good thing to come out of brexit is the kick in the chops of those that voted for it, particularly the British ̶e̶x̶p̶a̶t̶s̶ immigrants being booted out of their homes. Perhaps they can be rounded up and kept on a boat.

Wonder what the correlation is between the way individual British migrants voted and their subsequent success or failure in staying in their chosen EU country. When I got German citizenship in 2018 the various online forums about the process were populated by 100% remainers. Now we keep hearing about leave voters regretting their vote because they can no longer stay…..


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Hibrandenburg]

The one good thing to come out of brexit is the kick in the chops of those that voted for it, particularly the British ̶e̶x̶p̶a̶t̶s̶ immigrants being booted out of their homes. Perhaps they can be rounded up and kept on a boat.

Nice.

[grunt]

https://www.cyclingnews.com/news/brexit-complications-force-an-end-to-the-official-tour-de-france-london-paris-ride/

The leading London to Paris organised cycling event, officially partnered with the Tour de France in recent years, will run its current closed road format for a final time in 2024 on account of the ‘ever-growing complications of Brexit’ associated with organising an international cycling event.

[grunt]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-uk-eu-trade-imports-b2379743.html


The EU (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/eu) has slapped down the UK government after it attempted to bypass Brussels on post-Brexit (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/brexit) trade rules. Documents obtained by The Independent show the European Commission (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/european-commission) was unhappy after British officials asked each member state directly about their plans to cope with new checks on goods coming into the UK.

At one point, the EU Commission told countries in the bloc to ignore the UK government completely. It then sent a memo telling member states to provide only “short general information” because of the “problematic” nature of the British request.

The Commission later warned the UK that contacting each country directly was “outside” the terms of Boris Johnson (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/boris-johnson)’s Brexit trade deal - saying it was of “significant concern” since a proper response to British queries should be “harmonised at EU level”.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/01/uk-eu-safety-mark-brexit-climbdown?CMP=share_btn_tw

Sticking with EU regs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibrandenburg]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/01/uk-eu-safety-mark-brexit-climbdown?CMP=share_btn_tw

Sticking with EU regs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

If only we had known before the vote that this kind of thing would happen. :rolleyes:

[BroxburnHibee]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/01/uk-eu-safety-mark-brexit-climbdown?CMP=share_btn_tw

Sticking with EU regs.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

ERG will hate that.

Wonder what part off Brexit we'll rollback on next....

[grunt]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/aug/01/uk-eu-safety-mark-brexit-climbdown?CMP=share_btn_tw

Sticking with EU regs.
It has been blindingly obvious since day 1 that this would happen. Of course it's now worse because UK regulators cannot certify EU safety marks. **** Brexit.

[Hibrandenburg]

ERG will hate that.

Wonder what part off Brexit we'll rollback on next....

Everything, all the Brexit promises that involve the EU rolling over for us because they need us more than we need them will have to be rolled back on until we're left with only the disadvantages of leaving the EU and none of the benefits. You'd think that even the most gullible Brexiteer would have grasped this by now but obviously not as Labour are still chasing their votes.

[BroxburnHibee]

Everything, all the Brexit promises that involve the EU rolling over for us because they need us more than we need them will have to be rolled back on until we're left with only the disadvantages of leaving the EU and none of the benefits. You'd think that even the most gullible Brexiteer would have grasped this by now but obviously not as Labour are still chasing their votes.

Think Labour want to get in power first before suggesting changes. Perhaps the rejoin question will be brought up in a second term