Brexit - What Now.

[Kato]

Yes, that one. So a number of years of austerity and cuts to public services is worth it in tbe long run?

Oh dear, I wonder how that feels.

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[Ozyhibby]

Yes, that one. So a number of years of austerity and cuts to public services is worth it in tbe long run? I am just saying that needs to be considered, it's not all plain sailing and easy as some seem to want to make out.

There are other actions that can be taken to mitigate that.
Is it better to be in the EU or out? I think it’s becoming clearer every single day that we need to be back in the EU. If you want to argue against that then good luck.
Staying in the UK is all about austerity anyway so why not?


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[James310]

There are other actions that can be taken to mitigate that.

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Like what?

[Ozyhibby]

Like what?

Maybe you decide to grow the economy massively by encouraging immigration? Just one idea but there are others. Main thing is we can choose what to do.


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[grunt]

Yes, that one. A few posts ago the fact that we might be a net contributor was a big issue that took some time to discuss. Now you - separately - introduce a different argument but ignore the fact that what was such a potential issue previously is no longer an issue here. It's almost as though some people are clutching at straws.

Anyway, why are you interested? According to you there won't be a referendum.

[James310]

Maybe you decide to grow the economy massively by encouraging immigration? Just one idea but there are others. Main thing is we can choose what to do.


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Well you can't, the EU chooses. Croatia didn't choose to have austerity, it's part of the EU convergence criteria.

[James310]

A few posts ago the fact that we might be a net contributor was a big issue that took some time to discuss. Now you - separately - introduce a different argument but ignore the fact that what was such a potential issue previously is no longer an issue here. It's almost as though some people are clutching at straws.

Anyway, why are you interested? According to you there won't be a referendum.

I was simply replying to another poster, that's how it works here. But you are right, it's mainly all moot.

[Ozyhibby]

Well you can't, the EU chooses. Croatia didn't choose to have austerity, it's part of the EU convergence criteria.

Croatia didn’t have to have austerity, it had to reduce its deficit. If Croatia had grown their economy without increasing spending at the same rate then the EU would have been just as happy.


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[Kato]

I'd like to know how the EU imposed austerity on Croatia.

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[Callum_62]

Imposed austerity!

Are the EU tories?

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[James310]

Lol

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2014/02/15/croa-f15.html

EU imposes harsh austerity on Croatia, its newest member

The austerity measures the EU is forcing throughout the continent have had a major impact on Croatia. The country has been in continuous recession since 2009, with GDP contracting by almost 20 percent by 2012. A further drop is expected in 2013. The government was forced to slash its 2014 growth estimate from the previous 1.3 percent to only 0.2 percent, as the result of the latest cuts demanded by the EU.

[archie]

I'd like to know how the EU imposed austerity on Croatia.

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Through measures that required the Croatian government to carry out to meet criteria for joining. Also imposed on Greece as a member.

[James310]

I'd like to know how the EU imposed austerity on Croatia.

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What do you think happened in Greece? All their own choice was it?

[Kato]

What do you think happened in Greece? All their own choice was it?Sanctions if they didn't meet certain criteria.

The EU weren't to blame for either Greece or Croatia's economic problems, an independent Scotland wouldn't be in as bad a situation, if we get away quickly enough.


Seems to have worked for Croatia. 9 years down the line their economy is growing and considered fit enough to join the Euro.

We've had 13 years of austerity here and the latest economic forecasts are abysmal.

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[grunt]

All of this argument about how hard it will be for Scotland to get back into the EU misses the main point of this thread: we were already in the EU and the ****ing Tories took us out against our will.

This man - I have no words to describe how I feel about him. https://twitter.com/TheNewsAgents/status/1620448715541471232?s=20&t=H0o_3TV5AuheF7cjz2sCJg

[archie]

All of this argument about how hard it will be for Scotland to get back into the EU misses the main point of this thread: we were already in the EU and the ****ing Tories took us out against our will.

This man - I have no words to describe how I feel about him. https://twitter.com/TheNewsAgents/status/1620448715541471232?s=20&t=H0o_3TV5AuheF7cjz2sCJg
Actually 'we' weren't.

[archie]

Sanctions if they didn't meet certain criteria.

The EU weren't to blame for either Greece or Croatia's economic problems, an independent Scotland wouldn't be in as bad a situation, if we get away quickly enough.


Seems to have worked for Croatia. 9 years down the line their economy is growing and considered fit enough to join the Euro.

We've had 13 years of austerity here and the latest economic forecasts are abysmal.

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That's true. But as a condition of entry (or in Greece's case not tumbling out) the countries were required to take steps. Scotland wouldn't be any different, but we don't know any impact that would have until we know what the post independence economy was like.

[Kato]

That's true. But as a condition of entry (or in Greece's case not tumbling out) the countries were required to take steps. Scotland wouldn't be any different, but we don't know any impact that would have until we know what the post independence economy was like.It's a gamble.

Staying in the UK is also a gamble.

If we were to go through an austerity process with EU monitoring that should be balanced against what we have just now.

Plenty of room for partnerships and forward thinking policies with an aim of following the likes of Croatia and Ireland within the EU to some kind of prosperity and optimism.

I struggle to see where the chances of economic growth are within a crumbling, rudderless, uninvestable UK.

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[grunt]

Actually 'we' weren't.
Yes we were?

[Ozyhibby]

It's a gamble.

Staying in the UK is also a gamble.

If we were to go through an austerity process with EU monitoring that should be balanced against what we have just now.

Plenty of room for partnerships and forward thinking policies with an aim of following the likes of Croatia and Ireland within the EU to some kind of prosperity and optimism.

I struggle to see where the chances of economic growth are within a crumbling, rudderless, uninvestable UK.

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Yip. We are nowhere near to seeing how bad brexit really is yet. There is a lot worse to come. Investment in the UK has stalled altogether now but we are only three years in. Imagine what it’s going to look like in 10 years. Grim.


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[archie]

Yes we were?

Not as a member state.

[archie]

It's a gamble.

Staying in the UK is also a gamble.

If we were to go through an austerity process with EU monitoring that should be balanced against what we have just now.

Plenty of room for partnerships and forward thinking policies with an aim of following the likes of Croatia and Ireland within the EU to some kind of prosperity and optimism.

I struggle to see where the chances of economic growth are within a crumbling, rudderless, uninvestable UK.

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I would point out that the UK is the 6th largest economy in the world. But looking forward, what partnerships and forward looking policies do you have in mind?

[Stairway 2 7]

Yip. We are nowhere near to seeing how bad brexit really is yet. There is a lot worse to come. Investment in the UK has stalled altogether now but we are only three years in. Imagine what it’s going to look like in 10 years. Grim.


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The same imf report everyone is quoting, says after the drop next year GDP will grow about 1% each year for 2024 and 2025. I'm not saying brexit isn't horrible for the economy as it is but it accounts for only a proportion of our gdp growth

[grunt]

Not as a member state.
What a bizarre comment! I live in Scotland. Scotland was in the EU. So was I in the EU? Yes I was.

There are people on this board who would argue black was white just for the fun of it.

[archie]

What a bizarre comment! I live in Scotland. Scotland was in the EU. So was I in the EU? Yes I was.

There are people on this board who would argue black was white just for the fun of it.

I think you are doing that very thing. It's very clear States are members of the EU, not individuals.The UK was the member state. Had Scotland voted yes we would have been out and had to reapply.

[Kato]

I would point out that the UK is the 6th largest economy in the world. But looking forward, what partnerships and forward looking policies do you have in mind?Partnerships with EU countries, specifically partnerships regarding climate change policies.

Your first sentence I find a bit farcical. It might be the 6th largest economy in the world. How is that benefitting the country as a whole? Who actually benefits from that? The vast majority do not, a small minority do while bragging about handing out benefits (and at the same time seeking to shame those who have to take them.)

The UK must be the most topsy-turvy economy in the world if its the 6th largest but it fails to pay its workforces properly. Schools crumbling, armed forces a joke, health services shocking, judiciary being shrunk.

30 new billionaires last year though.

What do you extract from phrase "6th largest economy"? For me it's just gobbledygook, like the "fastest growing economy" rubbish they were coming out with last year.

So many are struggling and many are teetering on the brink.

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[James310]

What a bizarre comment! I live in Scotland. Scotland was in the EU. So was I in the EU? Yes I was.

There are people on this board who would argue black was white just for the fun of it.

The UK was a member of the EU. Scotland being part of the UK was in the EU. That's why your ballot paper in 2016 said should the UK Leave or Remain, not Scotland.

As I keep saying, facts matter.

[Ozyhibby]

The UK was a member of the EU. Scotland being part of the UK was in the EU. That's why your ballot paper in 2016 said should the UK Leave or Remain, not Scotland.

As I keep saying, facts matter.

In 2014 young Scots were EU citizens and now they are not. That’s a fact.


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[James310]

In 2014 young Scots were EU citizens and now they are not. That’s a fact.


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I don't disagree, that's a fact like the UK was the member state is a fact.

[archie]

Partnerships with EU countries, specifically partnerships regarding climate change policies.

Your first sentence I find a bit farcical. It might be the 6th largest economy in the world. How is that benefitting the country as a whole? Who actually benefits from that? The vast majority do not, a small minority do while bragging about handing out benefits (and at the same time seeking to shame those who have to take them.)

The UK must be the most topsy-turvy economy in the world if its the 6th largest but it fails to pay its workforces properly. Schools crumbling, armed forces a joke, health services shocking, judiciary being shrunk.

30 new billionaires last year though.

What do you extract from phrase "6th largest economy"? For me it's just gobbledygook, like the "fastest growing economy" rubbish they were coming out with last year.

So many are struggling and many are teetering on the brink.

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Thanks for responding. I don't think it's any more farcical to say that the UK is the sixth largest economy in the world than saying how rich Ireland is . The top line indicators mask the very real issues for people. I would say the UK economic position, with the right people running it, provides a platform to improve people's lives. I suspect you won't agree, but I would say that needs a change of UKG asap. On that I think you would agree.

[Just Alf]

I don't disagree, that's a fact like the UK was the member state is a fact.I'm struggling to see the relevance of your original comment bringing it up as an issue then?

All it did was side track the discussion??

[James310]

I'm struggling to see the relevance of your original comment bringing it up as an issue then?

All it did was side track the discussion??

Look back and a number of posts about was Scotland a member state and a few posts about it. If that's what you are talking about.

[Just Alf]

Look back and a number of posts about was Scotland a member state and a few posts about it. If that's what you are talking about.But the context was clearly as part of the UK, of course we weren't a member in our own right?

Sorry, maybe I've just misread it all and folks really do think we were members in our own right.

[Moulin Yarns]

Not as a member state.

And that's why independence is the answer!

[Moulin Yarns]

I think you are doing that very thing. It's very clear States are members of the EU, not individuals.The UK was the member state. Had Scotland voted yes we would have been out and had to reapply.

And would be a lot closer to being a member again had there been a yes vote in 2014.

[grunt]

"Breeding programmes designed to save critically endangered species are being jeopardised by Brexit, London Zoo has warned."

https://t.co/ixCwCVrsIj

[CropleyWasGod]

https://t.co/ixCwCVrsIj

The proles shouldn't be breeding anyway.

[The Tubs]

The proles shouldn't be breeding anyway.

Only the ones down the bawdy house impregnated by well bred types.

[Bostonhibby]

Only the ones down the bawdy house impregnated by well bred types.So Bozo hasn't officially "stepped down" then?

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[Ozyhibby]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-news-agents/id1640878689?i=1000597438457

The intro is devastating.


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[Kato]

The proles shouldn't be breeding anyway.We don't want our Great British rhinos and giraffes breeding with EU rhinos and giraffes anyway.

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[Kato]

Thanks for responding. I don't think it's any more farcical to say that the UK is the sixth largest economy in the world than saying how rich Ireland is . The top line indicators mask the very real issues for people. I would say the UK economic position, with the right people running it, provides a platform to improve people's lives. I suspect you won't agree, but I would say that needs a change of UKG asap. On that I think you would agree.When you have a cabal fleecing the populace and who gaslit their way into power a change of government just might be a good idea.

Only two years to go. That's 24 Liztrusses given her real tenure was only a month.

I really hope the country comes to its senses and tactically vote them into oblivion then some kind of semi-compentant group can sift through the shrapnel (and the bill for the shrapnel) they have left. They'll have a difficult job but you are correct their is platform to build although the platform will need severe work before times get better. Any govt with tangible aims to make it better for everyone could make a decent fist of it. The Tories anti-woke isolationist, right wing neo groundnut scheme is clearly not tangible.

I don't hold out much hope for the Labour Party btw the British establishment hate it and will always undermine it.

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[JeMeSouviens]

Thanks for responding. I don't think it's any more farcical to say that the UK is the sixth largest economy in the world than saying how rich Ireland is . The top line indicators mask the very real issues for people. I would say the UK economic position, with the right people running it, provides a platform to improve people's lives. I suspect you won't agree, but I would say that needs a change of UKG asap. On that I think you would agree.

Yes and no.

By the same measure China is #2 and Russia #9 but nobody would dream of saying they are richer countries than #22 Switzerland or #30 Norway. So in as much as GDP is a useful measure at all, you surely would want to use GDP per capita which puts the UK at about #14 once you remove the micro-state tax havens?

Having said that, I do agree that the 14th richest economy should still be well capable of providing the platform you speak of if it weren't run by the current mob.

[archie]

Yes and no.

By the same measure China is #2 and Russia #9 but nobody would dream of saying they are richer countries than #22 Switzerland or #30 Norway. So in as much as GDP is a useful measure at all, you surely would want to use GDP per capita which puts the UK at about #14 once you remove the micro-state tax havens?

Having said that, I do agree that the 14th richest economy should still be well capable of providing the platform you speak of if it weren't run by the current mob.Actually I agree with you re GDP. It's not an indicator of how the wealth is shared around. I think the more general point stands that the UK is a significant economy, but is being badly run. That suggests scope to improve things within the existing constutional framework, but I accept not all will agree on that last point.

[Jack]

Actually I agree with you re GDP. It's not an indicator of how the wealth is shared around. I think the more general point stands that the UK is a significant economy, but is being badly run. That suggests scope to improve things within the existing constutional framework, but I accept not all will agree on that last point.

Are there any indications things will improve with the current set up?

[grunt]

Actually I agree with you re GDP. It's not an indicator of how the wealth is shared around. I think the more general point stands that the UK is a significant economy, but is being badly run. That suggests scope to improve things within the existing constutional framework, but I accept not all will agree on that last point.
You're absolutely right, I don't agree.

Regardless of who's in power in WM, be it Labour or Tories, improving life for us here in Scotland will not feature on the agenda.

[grunt]

https://inews.co.uk/inews-lifestyle/money/saving-and-banking/paul-johnson-director-ifs-hangover-of-liz-truss-mini-budget-2124299


“Brexit has hit confidence in the UK, has hit the confidence of investors, and it had all sorts of other effects on the Gov’t. It is a part of the reason why we had the poorest growing economy in the G7 since 2019.”

[Stairway 2 7]

Are there any indications things will improve with the current set up?

If we're talking gbp everyone focused on the imf saying uk's gdb will fall next year. They say it will grow about between 1% and 2% for the next 5 years after. BOE said today that inflation has just about peaked and will drop to 4% by year end before falling bellow 2% in 2025.

These are all just estimates. This is also with the backdrop of Brexit costing us 100 billion a year the tories costing us 60 billion this year.

I believe if Labour win they will be a minimum of 2 terms. Between things getting better in 2 years time financially and the under 40s just aren't turning right wing like the past polling shows. I'm sure once in power they will get some sort of deal with the EU also

[grunt]

https://twitter.com/brexit_sham/status/1621118897532592128?s=20&t=REWJ2460css4ohFCkVhWhQ


Johnson, a key player in the devastating Brexit heist that's causing massive disruption, political turmoil and hundreds of billions of pounds damage to the UK, states that after their conflict with Russia, Ukraine should join the EU!

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/amanpour/status/1621219401713287174?s=46&t=UCxlsG_fHRp_dbGfIHUbQQ


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[Kato]

https://twitter.com/amanpour/status/1621219401713287174?s=46&t=UCxlsG_fHRp_dbGfIHUbQQ


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAbsolute proof that the brag about being the 6th biggest economy is piffle.

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[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/amanpour/status/1621219401713287174?s=46&t=UCxlsG_fHRp_dbGfIHUbQQ


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It isn't really true. The bottom group in the uk are the 15th richest in the world, above countries like Belgium, Italy Spain and Poland. We are lower than most western Europe and Scandinavian countries though. Our average earners are 12th and top 5th. The middle is sliding though Slovenia will soon overtake our middle earner and Poland by the end of the decade.

Good article with the stats and the widening gap of rich and poor in the uk
https://www.ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945

[TrumpIsAPeado]

It isn't really true. The bottom group in the uk are the 15th richest in the world, above countries like Belgium, Italy Spain and Poland. We are lower than most western Europe and Scandinavian countries though. Our average earners are 12th and top 5th. The middle is sliding though Slovenia will soon overtake our middle earner and Poland by the end of the decade.

Good article with the stats and the widening gap of rich and poor in the uk
https://www.ft.com/content/ef265420-45e8-497b-b308-c951baa68945

Trust the tory times to be behind a paywall. Even their articles are privatised.

[Stairway 2 7]

Trust the tory times to be behind a paywall. Even their articles are privatised.

Here's an archived version.
https://archive.ph/rPL30

It's quite a great piece that with facts that slams the tories. The financial Times has regularly destroyed the tories over the last few years, but particularly trussanomics.

The author John burn Murdoch is a mist follow on twitter. His data visualisation is phenomenal. Looking at it now his first few threads cover Britain's growing inequality, the strikes, public sector wage collapse and the tories poor immigration policy
https://mobile.twitter.com/jburnmurdoch?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eser p%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

But yeah tory times or something hic

[Kato]

Here's an archived version.
https://archive.ph/rPL30

It's quite a great piece that with facts that slams the tories. The financial Times has regularly destroyed the tories over the last few years, but particularly trussanomics.

The author John burn Murdoch is a mist follow on twitter. His data visualisation is phenomenal. Looking at it now his first few threads cover Britain's growing inequality, the strikes, public sector wage collapse and the tories poor immigration policy
https://mobile.twitter.com/jburnmurdoch?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eser p%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor

But yeah tory times or something hicTorys would enjoy reading his disparity stats on the UK and US. That is the result they are after.

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[archie]

Absolute proof that the brag about being the 6th biggest economy is piffle.

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I think you are talking about income distribution rather than overall size of the economy.

[grunt]

Good point made in a letter to The Guardian. The decision to leave the single market and customs union was taken by the Conservative Government, not by the people.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoCrPPVWAAE54CX?format=png&name=small

[hibsbollah]

Good point made in a letter to The Guardian. The decision to leave the single market and customs union was taken by the Conservative Government, not by the people.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoCrPPVWAAE54CX?format=png&name=small

It is an excellent point, which I had given no thought to (perhaps because of the lack of media scrutiny of the whole issue) but is of course correct.

[Kato]

I think you are talking about income distribution rather than overall size of the economy.I'm pointing out that for those at the bottom being the 6th largest economy means nothing, given the disparity between those at the top and those at the bottom. The poorest in countries with smaller economies are better off than the poorest in the UK.


https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1570832839318605824?t=zm2Lw_cbTkUNLFJJSodx1A&s=19



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[grunt]

"Not my fault" says UK's Brexit negotiator.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoClERVX0AAHDgz?format=jpg&name=large

[cabbageandribs1875]

well said bercow :agree: get that radge telt

John Bercow tells Nigel Farage 'grotesque blunder' of Brexit is 'nonsense on stilts' (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/uknews/john-bercow-tells-nigel-farage-grotesque-blunder-of-brexit-is-nonsense-on-stilts/ar-AA174OiK?ocid=msedgntp&cvid=3e9f21508f6d40d8a6b131b187329985)

[Jones28]

Well I think now that THE main man of Brexit nonsense has encouraged Ukraine to join the EU, can we officially call the situation ****ed?

It’s Johnson btw, who also said tanks were obsolete.

[wookie70]

I'm pointing out that for those at the bottom being the 6th largest economy means nothing, given the disparity between those at the top and those at the bottom. The poorest in countries with smaller economies are better off than the poorest in the UK.


https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1570832839318605824?t=zm2Lw_cbTkUNLFJJSodx1A&s=19



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Whether is UK is 6th biggest or not is similar to what the inflation figure is for me. I don't care about the figure as long as my wage awards are in step with it. Inflation isn't a problem for citizens it is below inflation pay awards. At the moment more and more UK citizens are struggling to get by and that is in one of the wealthiest countries in the world. The amount of money isn't the issue it is the way governments allow it to be constantly filtered to those that have more than they could ever spend.

[grunt]

Wooohooo! Innovation is the Tories mantra!


Brexit causes collapse in European research funding for Oxbridge
Oxford and Cambridge universities, once given more than £130m a year in total by European research programmes, are now getting £1m annually between them


https://www.theguardian.com/education/2023/feb/04/brexit-causes-collapse-in-european-research-funding-for-oxbridge-universities?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

[Ozyhibby]

https://youtu.be/jz5jUMVfJP4


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[Kato]

https://youtu.be/jz5jUMVfJP4


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkQuite a comprehensive list of the attractions of the UK for rich people. It's an ad begging to be spoofed though.

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[Hibrandenburg]

Quite a comprehensive list of the attractions of the UK for rich people. It's an ad begging to be spoofed though.

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You mean that wasn't a spoof? Fair enough, it is getting more difficult to tell the difference between fact and fiction in the UK where most of the facts are more ****ed up than the fiction.

[grunt]

Never one to use one word when ten will suffice, Chris Grey remains an insightful commentator on Brexit.
Here's his thoughts on "three years of failure".

https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2023/02/three-years-of-failure.html


This week saw the third anniversary of the UK’s departure from the EU, and with it a flurry of assessments and opinion polls. These broadly reflect what I have been recording for some time. The mounting evidence of, especially, economic damage (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64450882) coinciding as it does with the centrality of ‘the economy’ as a political issue (https://yougov.co.uk/topics/education/trackers/the-most-important-issues-facing-the-country) has meant that Brexiters are gradually losing the battle (https://chrisgreybrexitblog.blogspot.com/2022/12/brexit-is-slowly-being-discredited-but.html) for the narrative of whether Brexit has been a success or a failure.


Yet even with these caveats this is a remarkable testimony to the utter failure of Brexit itself, and of the Brexiters failure to turn their 2016 victory into a durable consensus. Ian Dunt, one of the best analysts of the entire Brexit saga, believes that (https://inews.co.uk/opinion/brexit-join-suez-iraq-great-pantheon-catastrophic-british-errors-2119697#Echobox=1675236963) “someday soon, probably not more than a few years from now, it will be hard to even find people who admit to ever having supported it in the first place”.

Even without that happening, just the current level of ‘Bregret’ begs a question. Given that amongst leave voters who now think Brexit was a mistake there must be considerable numbers who mean not just that it wasn’t done ‘properly’ but that it was wrong in principle, it must surely be the case that at least one of those Brexiters who led the campaign to leave is also of that view.

Yet, so far as I know, not a single high-profile Brexiter has publicly said such a thing. Will any of them ever have the courage and honesty to do so? Or will they continue to chunter on that all would have been well had true Brexit been delivered, even as historians begin to write epitaphs to their lies and hubris? Will they go to the grave unrepentant, even as the ashes of their failed project are scattered to the winds?

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230207/2460f5e07321c325756f41af5fcdae04.jpg

Another success story.
Sounds like it won’t be long before it’s closed and production moved to France.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sunderland-may-lose-out-nissan-warns-qd5m39rn6?shareToken=9d29bc1c0ddcdcaa6ae138131ac39 31f


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[Kato]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230207/2460f5e07321c325756f41af5fcdae04.jpg

Another success story.
Sounds like it won’t be long before it’s closed and production moved to France.

https://www.thetimes.co.uk/article/sunderland-may-lose-out-nissan-warns-qd5m39rn6?shareToken=9d29bc1c0ddcdcaa6ae138131ac39 31f


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWe hold all the cards.

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[grunt]

The view from afar - China Daily

https://www.chinadaily.com.cn/a/202302/07/WS63e18ce7a31057c47ebad3ea.html


Families stockpiling blankets to ward off the cold as they sit shivering in their homes with no heating; lines of people who cannot afford to feed their children forming at local food banks; empty supermarket shelves, and shortages of basic foods such as eggs and potatoes. The situation in the United Kingdom today recalls the hard times Charles Dickens described in his novels.


Brexit has been an unmitigated disaster for the UK. As the country has proved in this increasingly globalized world, unilateralism and protectionism are a dead end for any country.

[grunt]

What they really think?

https://www.cityam.com/brexit-amber-rudd-disaster/


Former home secretary Amber Rudd has claimed that some Brexiteers, after “a drink or two”, will admit that the decision to leave the EU has been a “disaster”.

[grunt]

Scotland not the only country considering rejoining the EU

https://euobserver.com/opinion/156680


Three years on from our departure, our message to Europe is: Wales is still an outward-looking European nation. It may take a while, but we'll be back.

[grunt]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/downton-abbey-castle-scraps-weddings-because-of-brexit-343157/?utm_medium=social&utm_source=facebook&utm_camaign=sfeu&fbclid=IwAR0iE439UlnldRT9pgQKYvkjhi7uK6-IuLrF4TLq_8IjrnGOO3LcLXWdGXo


Downton Abbey castle scraps weddings ‘because of Brexit’


Speaking to The Independent, Lady Fiona Carnarvon said: “Brexit has undermined the wedding industry at Highclere, and it has really all been about the effects of leaving the EU.

“It is a matter of fact that Brexit has caused such a retraction of people available to work in the hospitality business that we realised we simply cannot guarantee that we can find enough staff to put on an event of the quality that we would want.

[grunt]

Brexit is a colossal mistake


https://youtu.be/VNFIllQwpm8

[WeeRussell]

Brexit is a colossal mistake


https://youtu.be/VNFIllQwpm8

I think you’re in a kind mood today, Grunt.

[Col2]

It’s remarkable that Johnson and Farage are not hiding under 24 hour security given when they pushed through in 2016.

It’s also incredible that even now with absolutely cast iron evidence that Brexit is a total and utter disaster with NO hope of an improvement just a continual deterioration, that Labour won’t entertain a different path. Scared they might lost a few red wall anti foreigner voters.

I honestly think if they said - it’s time to review our exit from EU with a view to make fundamental changes and that becomes our growth/recovery plan, they would increase majority in the poles. They might lose a few halfwits but they would gain those sitting on the fence. The tories would have nothing left other than anti immigrant bollocks.

[Kato]

It’s remarkable that Johnson and Farage are not hiding under 24 hour security given when they pushed through in 2016.

It’s also incredible that even now with absolutely cast iron evidence that Brexit is a total and utter disaster with NO hope of an improvement just a continual deterioration, that Labour won’t entertain a different path. Scared they might lost a few red wall anti foreigner voters.

I honestly think if they said - it’s time to review our exit from EU with a view to make fundamental changes and that becomes our growth/recovery plan, they would increase majority in the poles. They might lose a few halfwits but they would gain those sitting on the fence. The tories would have nothing left other than anti immigrant bollocks.I think it's quite canny what Labour are saying re-Brexit. If they came out and said the wanted to review even one piece of punctuation the Tories would weaponize Labour's statements and all the dog-whistle fruitloops would be screeching, the media would concentrate on that one thing too. They are avoiding the quagmire of that and the statement "make brexit work" is as opaque as "brexit means brexit ".

As it is the withdrawal agreement is due to be reviewed in 2026, plenty wiggle room there if the get elected and if they last till then.

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[Col2]

I think it's quite canny what Labour are saying re-Brexit. If they came out and said the wanted to review even one piece of punctuation the Tories would weaponize Labour's statements and all the dog-whistle fruitloops would be screeching, the media would concentrate on that one thing too. They are avoiding the quagmire of that and the statement "make brexit work" is as opaque as "brexit means brexit ".

As it is the withdrawal agreement is due to be reviewed in 2026, plenty wiggle room there if the get elected and if they last till then.

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I would agree 12 months ago but we are now beyond that. The benefits of challenging what has happened are far greater than the risk of criticism in my opinion. They won’t do it with an election on the horizon.


.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/haggis_uk/status/1623644620423933953?s=46&t=y0V68jLB73dEEPH-qihpaw


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[Kato]

https://twitter.com/haggis_uk/status/1623644620423933953?s=46&t=y0V68jLB73dEEPH-qihpaw


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAre they gaslighting us or themselves?

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[grunt]

Are they gaslighting us or themselves?
Be in no doubt, it's us they are seeking to fool.

[Kato]

Only another couple of billion or three chucked down the swannee. This will be paid for by us btw.

https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1623940493150404608?t=4yWvd_ETaRthA88a-NhE0w&s=19

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[Ozyhibby]

Only another couple of billion or three chucked down the swannee. This will be paid for by us btw.

https://twitter.com/TLDRNewsUK/status/1623940493150404608?t=4yWvd_ETaRthA88a-NhE0w&s=19

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Is our share of that bigger or smaller than the ferries are costing?


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[Kato]

Is our share of that bigger or smaller than the ferries are costing?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkBeing totally ignorant of the cost of the ferries (scandal) I'm going to plump for a guess at, aye.

Although the milage on the discussion front and column inches will see a more cost effective model in the ferries (scandal), as the above will make some ripples but then will die down quickly (when another few billions wasted comes to light.)


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[Ozyhibby]

Being totally ignorant of the cost of the ferries (scandal) I'm going to plump for a guess at, aye.

Although the milage on the discussion front and column inches will see a more cost effective model in the ferries (scandal), as the above will make some ripples but then will die down quickly (when another few billions wasted comes to light.)


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Would it have been enough to pay the nurses and teachers?


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[Kato]

Would it have been enough to pay the nurses and teachers?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIn Scotland? Undoubtedly.

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[ronaldo7]

Astra Zeneca decided to build new factory in Dublin instead of Cheshire, citing discouraging tax rates.

More business are making noises of following them.

[Stairway 2 7]

Astra Zeneca decided to build new factory in Dublin instead of Cheshire, citing discouraging tax rates.

More business are making noises of following them.

I wouldn't go the Irish route of asking for pennies in taxes, large tax have. Others disagree but it's a race to the bottom I wouldn't want independent Scotland matching

[ronaldo7]

I wouldn't go the Irish route of asking for pennies in taxes, large tax have. Others disagree but it's a race to the bottom I wouldn't want independent Scotland matching

It's more a case of businesses bailing from the UK.

[Stairway 2 7]

It's more a case of businesses bailing from the UK.

Not in this case. Loads of businesses and organisations will be jumping out the uk but I wouldn't care about ones dropping to go for Irelands low tax rate like AZ are

[Ozyhibby]

I wouldn't go the Irish route of asking for pennies in taxes, large tax have. Others disagree but it's a race to the bottom I wouldn't want independent Scotland matching

We can only dream about taxing business as much as the Irish do.
The percentage rates that we advertise we charge here is nowhere near what businesses actually pay except for small businesses. We should actually get rid of all the tax breaks we give out, deductions and write off etc and go for a lower rate that applies to all businesses regardless of whether you can afford a team of accountants. We might actually find that business not employing teams of accountants because they are not needed helps improve our productivity problem at the same time.


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[Stairway 2 7]

We can only dream about taxing business as much as the Irish do.
The percentage rates that we advertise we charge here is nowhere near what businesses actually pay except for small businesses. We should actually get rid of all the tax breaks we give out, deductions and write off etc and go for a lower rate that applies to all businesses regardless of whether you can afford a team of accountants. We might actually find that business not employing teams of accountants because they are not needed helps improve our productivity problem at the same time.


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That is simply not true ha

[James310]

We can only dream about taxing business as much as the Irish do.
The percentage rates that we advertise we charge here is nowhere near what businesses actually pay except for small businesses. We should actually get rid of all the tax breaks we give out, deductions and write off etc and go for a lower rate that applies to all businesses regardless of whether you can afford a team of accountants. We might actually find that business not employing teams of accountants because they are not needed helps improve our productivity problem at the same time.


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Any examples?

[grunt]

A reminder of what they said

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FonRc8CXoAs84TP?format=jpg&name=medium

[Kato]

Not in this case. Loads of businesses and organisations will be jumping out the uk but I wouldn't care about ones dropping to go for Irelands low tax rate like AZ areOpinions elsewhere saying that they went to Ireland as the supply chains for raw materials actually still exist there. Nothing to do with tax.

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[James310]

Opinions elsewhere saying that they went to Ireland as the supply chains for raw materials actually still exist there. Nothing to do with tax.

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A quote from the CEO.

AstraZeneca’s chief executive said the U.K.’s “discouraging” tax rate was behind the company’s decision to build a $400 million API facility at the former Alexion campus in Dublin.

Speaking to reporters on a conference call Thursday, Pascal Soriot said that despite the U.K. government’s charge to make the country into a life sciences powerhouse, punitive tax rates are forcing decision-makers to look elsewhere.

[Kato]

A quote from the CEO.

AstraZeneca’s chief executive said the U.K.’s “discouraging” tax rate was behind the company’s decision to build a $400 million API facility at the former Alexion campus in Dublin.

Speaking to reporters on a conference call Thursday, Pascal Soriot said that despite the U.K. government’s charge to make the country into a life sciences powerhouse, punitive tax rates are forcing decision-makers to look elsewhere.Fair enough but he might just be having a last dig. There's not doubt any manufacturing process is severely disrupted at the moment.

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[Ozyhibby]

That is simply not true ha

Whatever the truth, Ireland is booming while we get poorer.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Fair enough but he might just be having a last dig. There's not doubt any manufacturing process is severely disrupted at the moment.

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He was happy to set up in the uk if they agreed to subsidies the shortfall from tax. There's £100 billion reasons a year to slam brexit but not this one.

Just another money hungry company going to Europe's big business tax haven in Ireland.

[Kato]

He was happy to set up in the uk if they agreed to subsidies the shortfall from tax. There's £100 billion reasons a year to slam brexit but not this one.

Just another money hungry company going to Europe's big business tax haven in Ireland....and if it wasn't for those £100b reasons the UK might have been able to afford to allow some breaks.

As it is they are setting up in a country who are investing in the education of their workforce, have a history of pharma companies setting up there and have zero supply chain problems.

Are they greedy? Yes but that's capitalism.

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[Stairway 2 7]

...and if it wasn't for those £100b reasons the UK might have been able to afford to allow some breaks.

As it is they are setting up in a country who are investing in the education of their workforce, have a history of pharma companies setting up there and have zero supply chain problems.

Are they greedy? Yes but that's capitalism.

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They are going to the country with the lowest. I'd be disgusted if independent Scotland joined a race to the bottom on corporate tax. Truss wanted to lower corporate tax I'm confident she would have won az over.

Fwiw snp don't propose this in an independent Scotland which is good

[Kato]

They are going to the country with the lowest. I'd be disgusted if independent Scotland joined a race to the bottom on corporate tax. Truss wanted to lower corporate tax I'm confident she would have won az over.

Fwiw snp don't propose this in an independent Scotland which is goodAgreed

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[grunt]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/11/revealed-secret-cross-party-summit-held-to-confront-failings-of-brexit


Revealed: secret cross-party summit held to confront failings of Brexit

The SNP's invite presumably lost in the post.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/11/revealed-secret-cross-party-summit-held-to-confront-failings-of-brexit



The SNP's invite presumably lost in the post.

Scotland doesn’t matter to them. Goldman Sachs do though.


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[Glory Lurker]

Scotland doesn’t matter to them. Goldman Sachs do though.


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I'm sure the Labour representatives argued loudly about our omission.

[hibsbollah]

I'm sure the Labour representatives argued loudly about our omission.

Mandelson chaired. A man who’s managed to stay right at the heart of British political life despite having to resign from high office TWICE for dishonesty. Close friendship with Oleg Deripaska, a Russian oligarch sanctioned by the U.S. Mandelson also has been linked to Jeffrey Epstein, who C4 dispatches claimed he phoned while in prison in NY. Strangely, this does not seem to stop him being a constant source of comment on all things Labour-y on the Today programme. Definitely from the Teflonian wing of the Labour Party.

[grunt]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/12/disaster-is-right-brexit-is-a-self-inflicted-wound-that-cuts-dangerously-deep?CMP=share_btn_tw


Brexit has chased away many of the big foreign firms that once used the UK as a base inside the single market and discouraged domestic firms from expanding EU trade. As self-inflicted disasters go, it ranks as one of the worst in modern economic history.

[grunt]

https://inews.co.uk/news/brexit-unsafe-meat-african-swine-fever-border-checks-stop-2119410?ito=social_itw_theipaper&utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1676103282


Brexit leads to unsafe meat and African Swine Fever warnings as UK border checks on food stopThe UK was supposed to introduce its own ‘sanitary and phytosanitary’ post Brexit border checks on fresh food in July last year but then Brexit Opportunities minister Jacob Rees-Mogg scrapped the plan in April

[grunt]

I shall continue to post here whether you lot like it or not. :greengrin

Here's an amusing collage I spotted about The Telegraph's ongoing series of articles about what is not to blame for our country's woes.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoyQJU7WAAcy1Xa?format=jpg&name=medium

[WeeRussell]

I shall continue to post here whether you lot like it or not. :greengrin

Here's an amusing collage I spotted about The Telegraph's ongoing series of articles about what is not to blame for our country's woes.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FoyQJU7WAAcy1Xa?format=jpg&name=medium

I, for one, really like it. Please keep it up 👍

[ronaldo7]

Secret meetings of government ministers and senior Labour party members. You couldn't get a fag paper between them when it comes to Brexit.

"An extraordinary cross-party summit bringing together leading leavers and remainers – including Michael Gove and senior members of Keir Starmer’s shadow cabinet – has been held in high secrecy to address the failings of Brexit and how to remedy them in the national interest, the Observer can reveal.

The two-day gathering of some of the country’s most senior Labour and Tory politicians from both sides of the Brexit debate, together with diplomats, defence experts and the heads of some of the biggest businesses and banks, was held at the historic Ditchley Park retreat in Oxfordshire on Thursday afternoon and evening, and on Friday.
Documents from the meeting, obtained by the Observer, describe it as a “private discussion” under the title: “How can we make Brexit work better with our neighbours in Europe?”

Those in attendance from the pro-Brexit side included the former Tory party leader Michael Howard, former Tory chancellor Norman Lamont and former Labour Europe minister Gisela Stuart, one of the leading figures of the leave campaign.

Among the prominent remainer politicians present were shadow foreign secretary David Lammy, shadow defence secretary John Healey and the former European commissioner and Labour cabinet minister Peter Mandelson, who acted as chairman. From the Tory remainer camp, the ex-cabinet minister and long-serving minister for Europe, David Lidington, attended."

[Just Alf]

Secret meetings of government ministers and senior Labour party members. You couldn't get a fag paper between them when it comes to Brexit.

"An extraordinary cross-party summit bringing together leading leavers and remainers – including Michael Gove and senior members of Keir Starmer’s shadow cabinet – has been held in high secrecy to address the failings of Brexit and how to remedy them in the national interest, the Observer can reveal.

The two-day gathering of some of the country’s most senior Labour and Tory politicians from both sides of the Brexit debate, together with diplomats, defence experts and the heads of some of the biggest businesses and banks, was held at the historic Ditchley Park retreat in Oxfordshire on Thursday afternoon and evening, and on Friday.
Documents from the meeting, obtained by the Observer, describe it as a “private discussion” under the title: “How can we make Brexit work better with our neighbours in Europe?”

Those in attendance from the pro-Brexit side included the former Tory party leader Michael Howard, former Tory chancellor Norman Lamont and former Labour Europe minister Gisela Stuart, one of the leading figures of the leave campaign.

Among the prominent remainer politicians present were shadow foreign secretary David Lammy, shadow defence secretary John Healey and the former European commissioner and Labour cabinet minister Peter Mandelson, who acted as chairman. From the Tory remainer camp, the ex-cabinet minister and long-serving minister for Europe, David Lidington, attended."This is the sort of thing that should have been going on when the Brexit deal was being created/negotiated.

[ronaldo7]

This is the sort of thing that should have been going on when the Brexit deal was being created/negotiated.

They were too busy holding all the cards, and having all the cake to eat.

Smoke filled rooms is where we're now at.

The EU will be quaking in their boots.

[grunt]

The Turing scheme causing funding "nightmares" for universities, with students choosing between food and rent as they wait for far smaller funds than they would have got in the (quote) "much larger EU Erasmus+ scheme"

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fo6Km8EWAAA5Ve6?format=png&name=900x900

[Stairway 2 7]

Get the popcorn and watch the rage next week from the mail, the Tory ERG , unionists in Northern Ireland ect

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/14/northern-ireland-protocol-deal-eu

Deal on Northern Ireland protocol could be struck next week

[Bostonhibby]

They were too busy holding all the cards, and having all the cake to eat.

Smoke filled rooms is where we're now at.

The EU will be quaking in their boots.We're going to increase the number of union Jack's we wave, and to show we mean business most of them will be the right way up this time around.

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[Ozyhibby]

Get the popcorn and watch the rage next week from the mail, the Tory ERG , unionists in Northern Ireland ect

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/feb/14/northern-ireland-protocol-deal-eu

Deal on Northern Ireland protocol could be struck next week

Can’t see how the DUP accept, but then who really cares about them anyway?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Can’t see how the DUP accept, but then who really cares about them anyway?


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Certainly not me and I doubt the vast majority of tories, they were the useful idiots when the tories need them. The ERG are powerful in bigots though and could cause uproar next week. Hopefully lots of political bloodshed.

Of course the deal will be like putting on a plaster to the gun shot wound that is Brexit

[grunt]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-64623488


Brexit hit UK investment by £29bn, says Bank of England policymaker

[grunt]

https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1625529119764086785?s=20&t=BCA-RiYJ__jhTu7xr5runA


You cannot succeed if your own team are playing against you.

[Kato]

https://twitter.com/BestForBritain/status/1625529119764086785?s=20&t=BCA-RiYJ__jhTu7xr5runAIt's almost as though they have s template to wreck the country.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Sovereign_Individual

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[Stairway 2 7]

Can’t see how the DUP accept, but then who really cares about them anyway?


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Like to see the details on how

https://m.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/business/brexit/new-ni-protocol-deal-will-meet-all-the-dups-seven-red-lines-reports/291961277.html

New NI Protocol deal will meet all the DUP’s seven red lines: reports
Detailed briefing showing how the deal meets the red lines are set to be published alongside the announcement.

[grunt]

https://www.bestforbritain.org/mel_stride_s_admission_leaves_bitter_taste_for_mil lions_worse_off_after_brexit


Despite the UK Government's previous statements and current position, the Secretary of State for the Department of Work and Pensions, Mel Stride today confirmed that 'friction' with the EU due to Brexit has had impact on UK economy.


“This belated admission will have a bitter taste for the public particularly while Mr Stride’s Cabinet colleagues continue to claim the exact opposite. In the national interest politicians must start being honest about Brexit and urgently begin repairing the damage."

[grunt]

The last straw?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-hampshire-64628821


Marwell lonely giraffe victim of post-Brexit red tape

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64663795?at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_medium=social&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_type=web_link&at_link_id=2A2E5448-AE09-11ED-8806-111F2152A482&at_campaign_type=owned&at_format=link&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_campaign=Social_Flow


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[Kato]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64663795?at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_medium=social&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_type=web_link&at_link_id=2A2E5448-AE09-11ED-8806-111F2152A482&at_campaign_type=owned&at_format=link&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_campaign=Social_Flow


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkA "woke" judge no doubt.

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[Stairway 2 7]

Surprised to not hear from the idiots of the ERG yet, seems a deal is days away


Jessica Parker
@MarkerJParker
NEW: A special restricted meeting of EU ambassadors has been called for tomorrow to discuss “#EU-#UK relations” as a deal on #NorthernIreland Protocol appears to be edging closer

[grunt]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpQBueHXoAAEYA7?format=jpg&name=medium

[Stairway 2 7]

The best young players can't go to England due to brexit

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/how-brexit-is-helping-european-clubs-beat-uk-giants-to-some-top-talent-12813748

[Stairway 2 7]

Idiot boris trying his best to harm the UK EU deal, get him tf

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/boris-johnson-a-bloody-nuisance-29253231

[hibsbollah]

The best young players can't go to England due to brexit

https://news.sky.com/story/amp/how-brexit-is-helping-european-clubs-beat-uk-giants-to-some-top-talent-12813748

Woke judges. Now woke footballers. What’s the world coming to

[Kato]

https://twitter.com/Haggis_UK/status/1627256250302955523?t=7-EtXNs9voMusbyIXwLTAw&s=19

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[Smartie]

My partner did a shop at ASDA Newhaven yesterday and there were empty shelves where much of the fruit and veg she went to buy would have been. I just thought it would have been one of those things when you go late on a Sunday and they're running a bit lot after all the weekend shoppers have been in at their busiest times.

Just browsing twitter this morning and seeing "Tesco" trending it appears that there are wider issues.

Anyone else experiencing anything? Is there a specific issue at play here?

Apologies if this should have been on a covid or Ukraine thread instead, and my sovereignty on toast was just lovely this morning, thanks.

[Lendo]

My partner did a shop at ASDA Newhaven yesterday and there were empty shelves where much of the fruit and veg she went to buy would have been. I just thought it would have been one of those things when you go late on a Sunday and they're running a bit lot after all the weekend shoppers have been in at their busiest times.

Just browsing twitter this morning and seeing "Tesco" trending it appears that there are wider issues.

Anyone else experiencing anything? Is there a specific issue at play here?

Apologies if this should have been on a covid or Ukraine thread instead, and my sovereignty on toast was just lovely this morning, thanks.

Noticing fewer and fewer fruit and veg items in Sainsbury’s at Shandwick Place and St Andrews Square each week.

[w pilton hibby]

My partner did a shop at ASDA Newhaven yesterday and there were empty shelves where much of the fruit and veg she went to buy would have been. I just thought it would have been one of those things when you go late on a Sunday and they're running a bit lot after all the weekend shoppers have been in at their busiest times.

Just browsing twitter this morning and seeing "Tesco" trending it appears that there are wider issues.

Anyone else experiencing anything? Is there a specific issue at play here?

Apologies if this should have been on a covid or Ukraine thread instead, and my sovereignty on toast was just lovely this morning, thanks.

Crop failures due to cold weather in Spain and Morocco last month (when we had snow here).

Will take a few weeks for usual volumes to catch up.

[grunt]

"Sad ..."

https://twitter.com/TobiFrenzen/status/1626662212625391622?s=20

[Kato]

Crop failures due to cold weather in Spain and Morocco last month (when we had snow here).

Will take a few weeks for usual volumes to catch up.Do Spain and Morocco have shortages?

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[Jones28]

Do Spain and Morocco have shortages?

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I saw a video of a Portuguese supermarket.

Safe to say, they do not have shortages on the continent.

[Ozyhibby]

I saw a video of a Portuguese supermarket.

Safe to say, they do not have shortages on the continent.

Of course they don’t. The eu market will be looked after first because it’s easy for producers. Who wants all the extra form filling.


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[Bostonhibby]

I saw a video of a Portuguese supermarket.

Safe to say, they do not have shortages on the continent.But they haven't got crowns on their pint glasses either.

We have taken back control of what we drink our foreign lager out of.

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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/jans_red/status/1627683060773797894?s=46&t=bFg52WzooA1JmGf1nvwkBQ


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[Kato]

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/politics/brexit-deal-rebel-tory-mps-boris-johnson-rishi-sunak-b1061610.html


Sir Bob Neill, chairman of the Commons justice committee, said: “What we need is pragmatism not dogmatism.

“It’s ridiculous to take purist points when you have got serious issues about people’s businesses, livelihoods and security. People have to grow up and compromise.”


Seven years too late for this type of obvious common sense.


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[grunt]

https://twitter.com/jans_red/status/1627683060773797894?s=46&t=bFg52WzooA1JmGf1nvwkBQ
For those who don't get to see the content of Twitter links, it's worth posting the picture that this links to, if for no other reason than to make your mouth water.


There's no tomatoes here in France, either...no, I'm lying...what sort do you want?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FpaxGk8XoAUjMdZ?format=jpg&name=large

[grunt]

Crop failures due to cold weather in Spain and Morocco last month (when we had snow here).

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Fpe3VxkXoAA4YVE?format=png&name=small

[grunt]

My anger at the damage caused by these Brexit morons will never fade. I hope they all go to jail.

[Stairway 2 7]

Could be good news if Braverman quits, but I'd doubt it

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-protocol-deal-sunak-resignations-b2286256.html

Rishi Sunak warned Brexit deal row ‘may see ministers quit

[Kato]

Could be good news if Braverman quits, but I'd doubt it

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-protocol-deal-sunak-resignations-b2286256.html

Rishi Sunak warned Brexit deal row ‘may see ministers quitMore of their internal crap. Done nothing but naval gaze and use helpless people as a distraction for knocking on a decade. Their stupid party is way more important to them than the UK.

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[Ozyhibby]

But they haven't got crowns on their pint glasses either.

We have taken back control of what we drink our foreign lager out of.

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They are going to be beside themselves with excitement when their ration card arrives.

https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1628044257918427138?s=46&t=zW8JtSHUC-7qCUtQHfPNMQ


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[Bostonhibby]

They are going to be beside themselves with excitement when their ration card arrives.

https://twitter.com/skynewsbreak/status/1628044257918427138?s=46&t=zW8JtSHUC-7qCUtQHfPNMQ


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI think you are underestimating how well this will be received by your average we won the war singlehandedly, union jack waving, youth of today hating brexiteer.

It's the good old days. Will only be a problem when there's rationing of 24 packs of Carling on the supermarket shelves.

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[Hibbyradge]

I think you are underestimating how well this will be received by your average we won the war singlehandedly, union jack waving, youth of today hating brexiteer.

It's the good old days. Will only be a problem when there's rationing of 24 packs of Carling on the supermarket shelves.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

Maybe, but their numbers are fewer and fewer these days.

[Bostonhibby]

Maybe, but their numbers are fewer and fewer these days.Hopefully you are right but it's going to take a long time in some constituencies.

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[TrumpIsAPeado]

Maybe, but their numbers are fewer and fewer these days.

Not few enough for Starmer to shift his position.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/lucywoodslucy70/status/1628531606381117442?s=46&t=bvFeiIdVp0VmDX_wYzX8yQ


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[cabbageandribs1875]

a float in Dusseldorf recently

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/331678397_725641839156928_7164823098548154852_n.jp g?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dbeb18&_nc_ohc=BfEeG1iZzBMAX_g3y-n&tn=oRK5qAGe-9s67qfL&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=00_AfDwYPjCFvmbV3FpW0DSJkEIQJUR-AvSMOi5srWByIORag&oe=63FC5518

[Jones28]

Saw a photo of creaking shelves covered in fresh fruit and veg, minimal plastic wrapping and packaging and tonnes and choice.


From Kherson in Ukraine, a place where bombs and missiles fall from the sky, and we're the ones who are rationing.

[hibsbollah]

Remember the turnip chat we were having on here? Turns out Theresa Coffee was listening

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/23/food-shortages-environment-secretary-urges-britons-cherish-turnips

This is the level of political awareness we are dealing with.

[Ozyhibby]

Looks like Sunak is going for it on his Brexit deal. He can get it through with Labour votes but at what cost in his own party? Would they dare bring him down?


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[MKHIBEE]

Remember the turnip chat we were having on here? Turns out Theresa Coffee was listening

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/23/food-shortages-environment-secretary-urges-britons-cherish-turnips

This is the level of political awareness we are dealing with.
Not sure that’s the phrase I would use

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Looks like Sunak is going for it on his Brexit deal. He can get it through with Labour votes but at what cost in his own party? Would they dare bring him down?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They will if they think the economy is about to implode. A no confidence vote leading to a general election will suit them under the circumstances.

[Bostonhibby]

Remember the turnip chat we were having on here? Turns out Theresa Coffee was listening

https://amp.theguardian.com/business/2023/feb/23/food-shortages-environment-secretary-urges-britons-cherish-turnips

This is the level of political awareness we are dealing with.I kid you not, a farmer who drinks in our local said he used to buy them for about £20 a tonne to feed to his sheep, he had to get them himself as there was no way the guy producing them could now get them picked and into market economically.

Maybe the answer is to get Coffey to dig for Britain and into some overalls?

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[He's here!]

Looks like Sunak is going for it on his Brexit deal. He can get it through with Labour votes but at what cost in his own party? Would they dare bring him down?


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Deal could be announced tomorrow according to Sky.

[Stairway 2 7]

They will if they think the economy is about to implode. A no confidence vote leading to a general election will suit them under the circumstances.

You think the tories would bring Sunak down and go for a GE?

A brexit deal will help the economy although fracture a fractured party further. Sunak is all about money so he'll desperately want the deal, he doesn't care about the DUP although the headcases in the backbences seem to

[TrumpIsAPeado]

You think the tories would bring Sunak down and go for a GE?

A brexit deal will help the economy although fracture a fractured party further. Sunak is all about money so he'll desperately want the deal, he doesn't care about the DUP although the headcases in the backbences seem to

They'll put the party before the economy. It doesn't really matter what Sunak himself is all about, they'll launch him if it's in their long term party interests. Getting Labour in to try and clean up an uncleanable mess suits their own party interests.

[archie]

They'll put the party before the economy. It doesn't really matter what Sunak himself is all about, they'll launch him if it's in their long term party interests. Getting Labour in to try and clean up an uncleanable mess suits their own party interests.

Odd analysis. Their personal interests would be directly impacted by a general election - imminent unemployment.

[Stairway 2 7]

They'll put the party before the economy. It doesn't really matter what Sunak himself is all about, they'll launch him if it's in their long term party interests. Getting Labour in to try and clean up an uncleanable mess suits their own party interests.

That's absolutely wild ha. If they chuck another PM and have an election they will be wiped out and on the dole.

Your also the only analyst that doesn't see growth and low inflation after this year. Although not good it will look like milk and honey the next 5 years comparing to the previous 10

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Odd analysis. Their personal interests would be directly impacted by a general election - imminent unemployment.

It's all swings and roundabouts in the world of politics. They know they're going to be wiped out regardless. So best to be wiped out now before things get even worse rather than after. In doing so, they allow the situation to fall on Labour instead. If there's one thing I've learnt about the electorate at large over the years, it's that people have very very short memories. 4 years of Labour in the rough will (unfortunately and rather predictably) lead to another Conservative Government. That's the calculation they're making.

[archie]

It's all swings and roundabouts in the world of politics. They know they're going to be wiped out regardless. So best to be wiped out now before things get even worse rather than after. In doing so, they allow the situation to fall on Labour instead. If there's one thing I've learnt about the electorate at large over the years, it's that people have very very short memories. 4 years of Labour in the rough will (unfortunately and rather predictably) lead to another Conservative Government. That's the calculation they're making.

That makes no sense. Why vote for unemployment now when the election is so far away? It's unlikely that the Tories would win the next election, but there is the potential in the next year for an improving economic position, perhaps the NI protocol working out, lowering inflation and recovery in the NHS that might give them some traction. Why lose now when there is at least a chance in 18 months. I think you are looking at Tory MPs as some sort of monoculture. They aren't all bestowed with inheritance or are hedge fund managers. If the party's prospects improve over the next year, the party might lose the election, but they might keep their job.

[weecounty hibby]

That makes no sense. Why vote for unemployment now when the election is so far away? It's unlikely that the Tories would win the next election, but there is the potential in the next year for an improving economic position, perhaps the NI protocol working out, lowering inflation and recovery in the NHS that might give them some traction. Why lose now when there is at least a chance in 18 months. I think you are looking at Tory MPs as some sort of monoculture. They aren't all bestowed with inheritance or are hedge fund managers. If the party's prospects improve over the next year, the party might lose the election, but they might keep their job.

They won't be unemployed tho sadly. Every one of them will have 2nd, 3rd, 4th jobs. Non exec directorships, lobbying jobs etc all lined up if not already done. Imo there will be very few of these *******s who have gone into public life for the benefit of the masses more likely for the benefit of themselves and their chums. Can't remember which one it is but one of them was a teacher when he went into parliament. Just a few short years later he is worth millions. What a happy coincidence for him

[James310]

They won't be unemployed tho sadly. Every one of them will have 2nd, 3rd, 4th jobs. Non exec directorships, lobbying jobs etc all lined up if not already done. Imo there will be very few of these *******s who have gone into public life for the benefit of the masses more likely for the benefit of themselves and their chums. Can't remember which one it is but one of them was a teacher when he went into parliament. Just a few short years later he is worth millions. What a happy coincidence for him

How can you have a job lined up when you don't know when the next General Election is?

How has this ex teacher made millions? Some side work?

[Stairway 2 7]

They won't be unemployed tho sadly. Every one of them will have 2nd, 3rd, 4th jobs. Non exec directorships, lobbying jobs etc all lined up if not already done. Imo there will be very few of these *******s who have gone into public life for the benefit of the masses more likely for the benefit of themselves and their chums. Can't remember which one it is but one of them was a teacher when he went into parliament. Just a few short years later he is worth millions. What a happy coincidence for him

Many may have not all and less so in swing seats. We're not seriously trying to say that tory mps would prefer a wipe out and labour being in.

Also HoH is the only person seeing the economy being worse than now in the next few years. Pretty much everyone is seeing inflation being low and gdp growing for the next 5 years. If I could find a market for the bet I would put heavily on a 2 term labour party minimum

[TrumpIsAPeado]

How can you have a job lined up when you don't know when the next General Election is?

How has this ex teacher made millions? Some side work?

They don't need to have jobs lined up. They can have multiple "jobs" simultaneously. Don't worry, none of your tories in parliament are going to be out of pocket.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

Many may have not all and less so in swing seats. We're not seriously trying to say that tory mps would prefer a wipe out and labour being in.

Also HoH is the only person seeing the economy being worse than now in the next few years. Pretty much everyone is seeing inflation being low and gdp growing for the next 5 years. If I could find a market for the bet I would put heavily on a 2 term labour party minimum

The jobs of these economic institutions has never been to give people accurate projections of the future, but rather to maintain market confidence. If the economy is about to collapse, they're not going to come out and say that, as doing so would only cause it to occur faster. I'm not sure why people are always quick to bring up these institutions in a political debate, it's not as if they have a meticulous track record that's never in doubt.

[Stairway 2 7]

The jobs of these economic institutions has never been to give people accurate projections of the future, but rather to maintain market confidence. If the economy is about to collapse, they're not going to come out and say that, as doing so would only cause it to occur faster. I'm not sure why people are always quick to bring up these institutions in a political debate, it's not as if they have a meticulous track record that's never in doubt.

Tinfoil hat stuff. They often miss stuff and can be points off but usually a good parameter. Your asking people to believe your opinion over scores of people like the imf, its a big call

[hibsbollah]

Tinfoil hat stuff. They often miss stuff and can be points off but usually a good parameter. Your asking people to believe your opinion over scores of people like the imf, its a big call

The IMF and the World Bank impose policies on developing countries that almost always include a) cut your spending on health education public services and b) open access to these domestic structures to foreign private equity. This isn’t controversial or conspiratorial, just established fact. They’re always about Thatcher/Reagan style neo liberalism.

So using the IMF as some sort of independent arbitrator as to what is good capitalism and what is bad capitalism is bad salesmanship :greengrin

When I want to make a guess about the global economy,reading the FT is as good a guide as any I think. UK is likely to remain the worst performer of the G7 for the short term, behind even Russia by some measurements, with the proviso that the global economy overall will see some improvement because of China opening its markets up again (what happened to the domestic housing market collapse that was inevitable a few months ago?!) and the increase in energy prices.

The cycle of boom and bust is just a fact of life and when the next crash is going to happen is impossible to predict but all that’s certain is it definitely will happen at some point. Also, environmental catastrophe somewhere will be a factor in the next one.

[Stairway 2 7]

The IMF and the World Bank impose policies on developing countries that almost always include a) cut your spending on health education public services and b) open access to these domestic structures to foreign private equity. This isn’t controversial or conspiratorial, just established fact. They’re always about Thatcher/Reagan style neo liberalism.

So using the IMF as some sort of independent arbitrator as to what is good capitalism and what is bad capitalism is bad salesmanship :greengrin

When I want to make a guess about the global economy,reading the FT is as good a guide as any I think. UK is likely to remain the worst performer of the G7 for the short term, behind even Russia by some measurements, with the proviso that the global economy overall will see some improvement because of China opening its markets up again (what happened to the domestic housing market collapse that was inevitable a few months ago?!) and the increase in energy prices.

The cycle of boom and bust is just a fact of life and when the next crash is going to happen is impossible to predict but all that’s certain is it definitely will happen at some point. Also, environmental catastrophe somewhere will be a factor in the next one.

The first two paragraphs have nothing to do with the conversation. Who said they are good people or its good capitalism, just they are accurate by a few % in the next couple of years.

I read the FT but they use others figures. Your saying the UK will be the worst performer next year. That is an estimate from the people I am quoting IMF, BOE and the financial institutions. I agree we will do worse this year than the rest.

You can't use that as a given then ignore that they all say in 2024, 25, 26, 27 they estimate uk to have growth of roughly 1% then 2%,2%,2%. They all estimate inflation to plummet this year to around 2% and then stay there for at least 5 years.

As I said if he doesn't see uk growth in 2024,25 there is money to be made hedging the pound, we'll see I suppose

[hibsbollah]

The first two paragraphs have nothing to do with the conversation. Who said they are good people or its good capitalism, just they are accurate by a few % in the next couple of years.

I read the FT but they use others figures. Your saying the UK will be the worst performer next year. That is an estimate from the people I am quoting IMF, BOE and the financial institutions. I agree we will do worse this year than the rest.

You can't use that as a given then ignore that they all say in 2024, 25, 26, 27 they estimate uk to have growth of roughly 1% then 2%,2%,2%. They all estimate inflation to plummet this year to around 2% and then stay there for at least 5 years.

As I said if he doesn't see uk growth in 2024,25 there is money to be made hedging the pound, we'll see I suppose

Even if the projected figures for 2025+ are correct, rates of growth of 2% pa isn’t a healthy growth to keep up with normal existing modern standards in public investment, far less after ten years of selling the family silver we’ve seen under the Tories. And the point I was making is that with so many imponderables (war, cyclical boom and bust and environmental catastrophe) it’s just educated guesswork and gambling and we really should have learned that by now. What’s not in question is Brexit puts us in a far worse position of course (unless you own shares in a company in a few very specialist sectors).

And the whole discourse ignores the big question of whether Growth Growth Growth as measured by outdated GDP measurement is even a sound policy to aim for in the current climate. You can’t have a proper Green New Deal and be All About Growth at the same time, now THATS real tin foil hat talk.

[Stairway 2 7]

Even if the projected figures for 2025+ are correct, rates of growth of 2% pa isn’t a healthy growth to keep up with normal existing modern standards in public investment, far less after ten years of selling the family silver we’ve seen under the Tories. And the point I was making is that with so many imponderables (war, cyclical boom and bust and environmental catastrophe) it’s just educated guesswork and gambling and we really should have learned that by now. What’s not in question is Brexit puts us in a far worse position of course (unless you own shares in a company in a few very specialist sectors).

And the whole discourse ignores the big question of whether Growth Growth Growth as measured by outdated GDP measurement is even a sound policy to aim for in the current climate. You can’t have a proper Green New Deal and be All About Growth at the same time, now THATS real tin foil hat talk.

He said tories would chose to have Labour in power this year because things will get worse in the years ahead. That's daft for a number of reasons. They like being an mp and won't fancy a wipout. Also no matter how you dress it up or talk about the whole essence of capitalism, things will be better much much better in the next 5 years compared to the previous 10.

Inflation being 2% rather than 10% alone changes everything from food prices to wage rises being accepted. Falling gas prices will also change things markedly for the better.

[hibsbollah]

He said tories would chose to have Labour in power this year because things will get worse in the years ahead. That's daft for a number of reasons. They like being an mp and won't fancy a wipout. Also no matter how you dress it up or talk about the whole essence of capitalism, things will be better much much better in the next 5 years compared to the previous 10.

Inflation being 2% rather than 10% alone changes everything from food prices to wage rises being accepted. Falling gas prices will also change things markedly for the better.

I think he’s using a bit of hyperbole to make a point. But I agree that the Tory establishment would be perfectly happy to take a step back get their act together and let Labour inherit a fairly dodgy economic outlook, while they sort out their own total internal chaos. Of course individual red wall Tory MPs will want to stay on the gravy train, but they are probably already planning for another career.

[Stairway 2 7]

I think he’s using a bit of hyperbole to make a point. But I agree that the Tory establishment would be perfectly happy to take a step back get their act together and let Labour inherit a fairly dodgy economic outlook, while they sort out their own total internal chaos. Of course individual red wall Tory MPs will want to stay on the gravy train, but they are probably already planning for another career.

I respectfully think your both wrong then. Every estimate is that things will be massively better in the next 5 years comparing to the last 5. I've already listed the reasons but growth compared to contracting and mainly inflation. I'll be lumping on labour to win a second term as soon as that market opens post there upcoming win, if yous think the opposite I'd reckon you'll get a good price

[The Tubs]

The IMF and the World Bank impose policies on developing countries that almost always include a) cut your spending on health education public services and b) open access to these domestic structures to foreign private equity. This isn’t controversial or conspiratorial, just established fact. They’re always about Thatcher/Reagan style neo liberalism.

So using the IMF as some sort of independent arbitrator as to what is good capitalism and what is bad capitalism is bad salesmanship :greengrin

When I want to make a guess about the global economy,reading the FT is as good a guide as any I think. UK is likely to remain the worst performer of the G7 for the short term, behind even Russia by some measurements, with the proviso that the global economy overall will see some improvement because of China opening its markets up again (what happened to the domestic housing market collapse that was inevitable a few months ago?!) and the increase in energy prices.

The cycle of boom and bust is just a fact of life and when the next crash is going to happen is impossible to predict but all that’s certain is it definitely will happen at some point. Also, environmental catastrophe somewhere will be a factor in the next one.


Has the orthodoxy within the IMF not changed substantially over the past 10 years or so?

[The Tubs]

The first two paragraphs have nothing to do with the conversation. Who said they are good people or its good capitalism, just they are accurate by a few % in the next couple of years.

I read the FT but they use others figures. Your saying the UK will be the worst performer next year. That is an estimate from the people I am quoting IMF, BOE and the financial institutions. I agree we will do worse this year than the rest.

You can't use that as a given then ignore that they all say in 2024, 25, 26, 27 they estimate uk to have growth of roughly 1% then 2%,2%,2%. They all estimate inflation to plummet this year to around 2% and then stay there for at least 5 years.

As I said if he doesn't see uk growth in 2024,25 there is money to be made hedging the pound, we'll see I suppose


26509

Having read this article, it seems like nobody has a clue about inflation. As Lee Johnson would say, there are many moving parts.

[Stairway 2 7]

26509

Having read this article, it seems like nobody has a clue about inflation. As Lee Johnson would say, there are many moving parts.

The article is talking about Fed bank rates. The central estimate is the BOE will raise inflation rate in the summer whether that's to 4.5% or 5% no one knows, it's expected to drop from there but not much. CPI inflation was what I was talking about the only discussion seems to be when it will hit 2%, BOE say next spring but some banks are saying maybe Christmas this year. Its obviously all educated guesswork but no one is saying it will nearly be as bad as the last 5 years

https://www.cityam.com/uk-edges-further-away-from-recession-as-families-economy-and-inflation-outlook-brightens/

[The Tubs]

The article is talking about Fed bank rates. The central estimate is the BOE will raise inflation rate in the summer whether that's to 4.5% or 5% no one knows, it's expected to drop from there but not much. CPI inflation was what I was talking about the only discussion seems to be when it will hit 2%, BOE say next spring but some banks are saying maybe Christmas this year. Its obviously all educated guesswork but no one is saying it will nearly be as bad as the last 5 years

https://www.cityam.com/uk-edges-further-away-from-recession-as-families-economy-and-inflation-outlook-brightens/


Do you expect the UK’s inflation outlook to be better than the US’s over the next couple of years? I can’t see it myself.

[Stairway 2 7]

Do you expect the UK’s inflation outlook to be better than the US’s over the next couple of years? I can’t see it myself.

If we're talking about Consumer price index both will tumble this year. Their's never reached our highs thanks to brexit and them getting gas from shale. I've no idea what their's will drop to, it won't drop as much as our expected 8% drop because its only 6% now.

Not sure on what the expect the fed rate to drop to BOE expect our rate not to drop below 4% until end of 24

Our economy will do worse than their's

[hibsbollah]

Has the orthodoxy within the IMF not changed substantially over the past 10 years or so?

I have to be honest, I haven’t been following it as much as I should since I was an undergraduate:greengrin

Nice blog here though
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/imf-discourse/

[The Tubs]

I have to be honest, I haven’t been following it as much as I should since I was an undergraduate:greengrin

Nice blog here though
https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/imf-discourse/

It's interesting that they seem to say the IMF's discourse has changed but its actions haven't. I might try to confirm this as they don't offer any cases up to support the latter..

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/arlenefosteruk/status/1630174467275083776?s=46&t=9egtjQBOa6lJKV_Hau5H7g

The King getting involved in politics is not going down well. I find myself agreeing with the DUP. This won’t do.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Stairway 2 7]

DUP can do one. Bunch of nut jobs holding the deal back for too long, along with the ERG weirdos. This is a rotten deal but its significantly better than the situation we have now.

[Ozyhibby]

DUP can do one. Bunch of nut jobs holding the deal back for too long, along with the ERG weirdos. This is a rotten deal but its significantly better than the situation we have now.

I’m only talking about involving the monarchy in politics.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Kato]

https://twitter.com/arlenefosteruk/status/1630174467275083776?s=46&t=9egtjQBOa6lJKV_Hau5H7g

The King getting involved in politics is not going down well. I find myself agreeing with the DUP. This won’t do.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkMajor Cloppa Castle vibes here.

Trotting out our monarch to decide on his subjects borders.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

A major feather in the cap for Sunak getting deal done if he gets it past the DUP. Will be the start of rehabilitating the Tories in time for the GE.


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[hibsbollah]

Major Cloppa Castle vibes here.

Trotting out our monarch to decide on his subjects borders.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

If he can ensure I get some Brie and Barolo to go with my turnips I for one will put on my cavalier costume and go to bat on the royalist side.

[He's here!]

A major feather in the cap for Sunak getting deal done if he gets it past the DUP. Will be the start of rehabilitating the Tories in time for the GE.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Still got a long way to go for a GE win to be a remote possibility but yes credit to him. It's a big achievement.

[grunt]

Still got a long way to go for a GE win to be a remote possibility but yes credit to him. It's a big achievement.
A bigger achievement would have been not to have Brexit in the first place. Honestly, celebrating an agreement which repairs a tiny proportion of the damage done by Brexit is hardly something worth shouting about.

[grunt]

Brexit UberCommander (Stupid) Steve Baker on BBC R4:


What an extraordinary opportunity for Northern Ireland: dual access to both markets.

Actually, that "extraordinary opportunity" is what the whole of the UK used to have when we were part of the EU. Baker and his band of criminal incompetents killed that opportunity for us, despite a majority here in Scotland not wanting to leave. Thanks Steve. ****head.

[Ozyhibby]

Brexit UberCommander (Stupid) Steve Baker on BBC R4:



Actually, that "extraordinary opportunity" is what the whole of the UK used to have when we were part of the EU. Baker and his band of criminal incompetents killed that opportunity for us, despite a majority here in Scotland not wanting to leave. Thanks Steve. ****head.

Not only that but we asked for the same deal as NI and were refused.


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[Lendo]

Not only that but we asked for the same deal as NI and were refused.


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Have the Scottish Government taken this to the courts? Surely there is an argument that could be made that what’s good for NI is good for Scotland.

[Ozyhibby]

Have the Scottish Government taken this to the courts? Surely there is an argument that could be made that what’s good for NI is good for Scotland.

I def think that we should be pushing for much more devolution including this rather than the current log jam of Indy or nothing. It would help if Labour Party could get on board with this sort of thing as well.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230227/0f4559e1bdd10f63b097800c3189b292.jpg


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[Kato]

Brexit UberCommander (Stupid) Steve Baker on BBC R4:



Actually, that "extraordinary opportunity" is what the whole of the UK used to have when we were part of the EU. Baker and his band of criminal incompetents killed that opportunity for us, despite a majority here in Scotland not wanting to leave. Thanks Steve. ****head.I thought the north of Ireland already had dual access? It was described at the time of Johnson's "over ready" deal, which solved all these problems, as the "best of both worlds". Some comments surrounded that as to why Scotland only had the worst of one world.

What's changed?

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[Bristolhibby]

A bigger achievement would have been not to have Brexit in the first place. Honestly, celebrating an agreement which repairs a tiny proportion of the damage done by Brexit is hardly something worth shouting about.

This is where I am. But the public (the English) are easy to forgive Tories as it’s their natural position. (I generalise).

I want to focus on the 13 years of Tory mismanagement.

J

[Stairway 2 7]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230227/0f4559e1bdd10f63b097800c3189b292.jpg


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Tell the nutters to bolt.

[Callum_62]

Am I living in an ulterior universe?

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1630332770017853447?t=x8RLZxR6bpInxo9Y0Wtx_g&s=19

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[Kato]

Am I living in an ulterior universe?

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1630332770017853447?t=x8RLZxR6bpInxo9Y0Wtx_g&s=19

Sent from my VOG-L29 using TapatalkBoo blooming hoo.

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[hibsbollah]

Am I living in an ulterior universe?

https://twitter.com/PaulBrandITV/status/1630332770017853447?t=x8RLZxR6bpInxo9Y0Wtx_g&s=19

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He’s had a very very easy ride from the tabloid press and media compared to some other politicians I could mention. In fact he and his ilk have been given a free pass for bankrupting the country.

Mental health concerns are no joke. Neither is the disturbing practice of using it as an excuse for being a straight up bad person.

[heretoday]

Sunak. Respect. He might just manage to get these neanderthals in NI to get their assembly up and running.

[Ozyhibby]

Sunak. Respect. He might just manage to get these neanderthals in NI to get their assembly up and running.

I think you are under estimating the DUP’s capacity for stubbornness. If they agree to this then they are accepting that NI is separate from the UK in having to follow EU rules. That won’t be easy for them to do. The so called brake is almost impossible for them to pull on because it needs the support of nationalists as well. If they accept this deal then their power is gone.
It’s a great deal for NI though. Wish Scotland had that deal.


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[Hibrandenburg]

I think you are under estimating the DUP’s capacity for stubbornness. If they agree to this then they are accepting that NI is separate from the UK in having to follow EU rules. That won’t be easy for them to do. The so called brake is almost impossible for them to pull on because it needs the support of nationalists as well. If they accept this deal then their power is gone.
It’s a great deal for NI though. Wish Scotland had that deal.


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It's utterly bizarre that one part of the country that was less in favour of remaining bound to the EU than another gets what it voted for and the other doesn't.

[Ozyhibby]

It's utterly bizarre that one part of the country that was less in favour of remaining bound to the EU than another gets what it voted for and the other doesn't.

We need a campaign in Scotland for the same deal as NI.


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[Hibrandenburg]

We need a campaign in Scotland for the same deal as NI.


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Agreed, the SNP should have this in any future manifesto, it would secure many votes from floating voters and other parties, it may even open a back door to gaining more devolved power or dare I even say it independence.

[grunt]

Brexit for all to see

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqC6wiIWcAQwVZE?format=jpg&name=900x900

[grunt]

Sunak. Respect. He might just manage to get these neanderthals in NI to get their assembly up and running.
Respect? Respect??? What for? For resolving 1% of the damage he caused when he voted for Johnson's deal in 2020? He didn't say then that the NI Protocol was a problem that would need to be resolved barely two years later.

I have NO RESPECT at all for the criminal corrupt liars who inflicted Brexit on this country. They should all be in jail.

[Kato]

Respect? Respect??? What for? For resolving 1% of the damage he caused when he voted for Johnson's deal in 2020? He didn't say then that the NI Protocol was a problem that would need to be resolved barely two years later.

I have NO RESPECT at all for the criminal corrupt liars who inflicted Brexit on this country. They should all be in jail.Chances are the deal will fail anyway. There is no negotiating with the DUP. They don't understand any notion of give and take, its all about their red lines and once they are drawn, that's it - no surrender.

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[hibsbollah]

Respect? Respect??? What for? For resolving 1% of the damage he caused when he voted for Johnson's deal in 2020? He didn't say then that the NI Protocol was a problem that would need to be resolved barely two years later.

I have NO RESPECT at all for the criminal corrupt liars who inflicted Brexit on this country. They should all be in jail.

:agree:

[Berwickhibby]

I have NO RESPECT at all for the criminal corrupt liars who inflicted Brexit on this country. They should all be in jail.[/QUOTE]

Does that include the 1m + Scottish electorate who voted for Brexit

[Mr Grieves]

Respect? Respect??? What for? For resolving 1% of the damage he caused when he voted for Johnson's deal in 2020? He didn't say then that the NI Protocol was a problem that would need to be resolved barely two years later.

I have NO RESPECT at all for the criminal corrupt liars who inflicted Brexit on this country. They should all be in jail.

Well said

[Kato]

Does that include the 1m + Scottish electorate who voted for BrexitThat's the lied to, not the liars.

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[grunt]

Does that include the 1m + Scottish electorate who voted for BrexitPerhaps the nuance was too subtle for you, but I was referring to those who promoted it with evident lies, and who then created an agreement which so obviously caused significant problems for the UK.

But since you mention it, I will admit to a lingering disappointment that so many couldn't see the lies for what they so plainly were, and who were hoodwinked by xenophobic and anti-migrant, anti-EU rhetoric into acting so clearly against their own interests.

[Berwickhibby]

Perhaps the nuance was too subtle for you, but I was referring to those who promoted it with evident lies, and who then created an agreement which so obviously caused significant problems for the UK.

But since you mention it, I will admit to a lingering disappointment that so many couldn't see the lies for what they so plainly were, and who were hoodwinked by xenophobic and anti-migrant, anti-EU rhetoric into acting so clearly against their own interests.

Fair enough…for the record I voted remain… However I know lots of people who voted leave

[grunt]

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1630516739380322305?s=20


Rishi Sunak tells #PMConnect that NI is “world’s most exciting economic zone" b/c of access to both GB and EU markets. Earlier he said this "very special position" makes it "incredibly attractive" place to invest. This is, of course, the status *whole* UK had before Brexit.

[grunt]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FqDHICOXgAMHvqm?format=jpg&name=medium

[Stairway 2 7]

https://twitter.com/PippaCrerar/status/1630516739380322305?s=20

Actually embarrassed for him saying that the last two days, what an opportunity for them

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230228/2c6c5a2e45cc37d725734b44c1cabfab.jpg
Surely nobody in Scotland would argue against us wanting to join the ‘world’s most exciting economic zone’?
SNP leadership hopeful should jump on this now.


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[Kato]

Actually embarrassed for him saying that the last two days, what an opportunity for themIt's a total admission that what GB has for brexit is restrictive and harms our economy and investment.

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[hibsbollah]

It's a total admission that what GB has for brexit is restrictive and harms our economy and investment.

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It doesn’t matter what Scottish voters think of yesterdays developments. This is about Sunak being able to claim a ‘win’ and challenging Starmers self-positioning as the guy who will get Britain a ‘Good Brexit’. I’m still waiting for a satisfactory answer from Labour ‘moderate’ pro European supporters as to why this position is acceptable? Why was it unacceptable for Corbyn to take a ‘nuanced’ European position but Starmer is allowed to recast Labour as an explicitly Do Brexit, flag first law and order party and all is cool? Bizarre.

[TrumpIsAPeado]

It doesn’t matter what Scottish voters think of yesterdays developments. This is about Sunak being able to claim a ‘win’ and challenging Starmers self-positioning as the guy who will get Britain a ‘Good Brexit’. I’m still waiting for a satisfactory answer from Labour ‘moderate’ pro European supporters as to why this position is acceptable? Why was it unacceptable for Corbyn to take a ‘nuanced’ European position but Starmer is allowed to recast Labour as an explicitly Do Brexit, flag first law and order party and all is cool? Bizarre.

Starmer is getting away with a lot of things, while Corbyn was hounded for sneezing. He's very much the neoliberal media select. Anybody who believes that things are going to be noticeably better under him are going to be very much disappointed.

[Stairway 2 7]

Starmer is getting away with a lot of things, while Corbyn was hounded for sneezing. He's very much the neoliberal media select. Anybody who believes that things are going to be noticeably better under him are going to be very much disappointed.

You keep saying this but it doesn't make it true. It will be crap but I'm sure millions will be much better off than if the tories win. Increasing the top rate of tax by 5% like the snp did, will get abuse from the press and business groups but it will give them billions to spend.

Inflation being close to 2% will make a massive difference to everyone just on its own regardless

I think Starmer was pro remain but is trying to win favour with brexiteers. Corbyn in his hear of hearts was pro brexit and was always pretty non committal

[Stonewall]

You keep saying this but it doesn't make it true. It will be crap but I'm sure millions will be much better off than if the tories win. Increasing the top rate of tax by 5% like the snp did, will get abuse from the press and business groups but it will give them billions to spend.

Inflation being close to 2% will make a massive difference to everyone just on its own regardless

I think Starmer was pro remain but is trying to win favour with brexiteers. Corbyn in his hear of hearts was pro brexit and was always pretty non committal

I think your last sentence is pretty close to the truth. However I suspect that another point is that he endorsed the policy not to back any of May's proposals which whilst flawed were a whole lot better than what we ended up with. I think perhaps Starmer does not want to make the same mistake again hence the national interest phrase.

[Kato]

You keep saying this but it doesn't make it true. It will be crap but I'm sure millions will be much better off than if the tories win. Increasing the top rate of tax by 5% like the snp did, will get abuse from the press and business groups but it will give them billions to spend.

Inflation being close to 2% will make a massive difference to everyone just on its own regardless

I think Starmer was pro remain but is trying to win favour with brexiteers. Corbyn in his hear of hearts was pro brexit and was always pretty non committalhttps://twitter.com/adampayne26/status/1630290904438255617?t=tuOiA55Q50LdAAFcTstMPQ&s=19

The Brexit Midas In Reverse seemingly bumbling in. The ERG lot and the likes seem to me to want to stir northern Ireland up all over again. Its a trade deal which enables the terms of a long standing truce. What is the big deal?

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[grunt]

Johnson speaking (mumbling, mostly) at a business conference in London.
Asks all those who think Brexit is a good idea to raise their hands.
Johnson and the moderator raise their hands - and no one else.

https://metro.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2023/03/SEI_146473086-fb87.jpg?quality=90&strip=all&zoom=1&resize=540%2C360

[grunt]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrAcj1TWIAENuUX?format=jpg&name=large


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrAXr0oWwAE9Xrr?format=jpg&name=medium

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-03-14/dup-seeks-changes-to-uk-eu-windsor-deal-on-n-ireland-trade-after-brexit

DUP say no. Shocked.


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[grunt]

Sovereignty!! Sovereignty to follow whatever the others do, without any say in their decisions. **** Brexit.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/FrVFybNWcAAuVtU?format=png&name=900x900

And it gets worse - no mutual recognition. Used to be able to get tested once in any country and then you’re approved to use across Europe. They won’t now be accepting our approvals so our drugs will need sign off in UK and EU. Bonkers ...

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/peston/status/1637803619192848386?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Blow for Sunak.


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[Kato]

https://twitter.com/peston/status/1637803619192848386?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Blow for Sunak.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIs it not Gove and Johnson who order blow?

Of course the DUP will vote against it. There is no solution to what the north of Ireland requires without UK EU membership running alongside the GFE.

If it stokes turmoil is stokes culture wars and that is the final aim with this Tory regime on almost every issue.



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[grunt]

https://twitter.com/peston/status/1637803619192848386?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A Blow for Sunak.

The DUP are now in the truly unique position of claiming to support Brexit, while having voted against every single permutation of the Brexit deal.

[Ozyhibby]

The DUP are now in the truly unique position of claiming to support Brexit, while having voted against every single permutation of the Brexit deal.

I think they wanted the imaginary version with the return of this type of border between north and south.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20230320/1507880b87963a0b54d7d9b21c40f9cd.jpg


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[Stairway 2 7]

Like the bigots they are they won't accept a Sinn Fein first minister and don't want the assembly running. Works better for them to just complain about everything

[ACLeith]

Like the bigots they are they won't accept a Sinn Fein first minister and don't want the assembly running. Works better for them to just complain about everything

The answer is "no". Now what question would you like to ask?

[Ozyhibby]

ERG don’t like the deal now either.


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[grunt]

Almost half a billion pounds of taxpayers’ cash was spent on sites for Brexit import checks that were never introduced after a government U-turn.

https://twitter.com/theipaper/status/1638237817728823314?s=61&t=-BLvE2XlsyxZYcSjKNkxtg

[Kato]

Almost half a billion pounds of taxpayers’ cash was spent on sites for Brexit import checks that were never introduced after a government U-turn.

https://twitter.com/theipaper/status/1638237817728823314?s=61&t=-BLvE2XlsyxZYcSjKNkxtghttps://twitter.com/vivamjm/status/1638280259576508416?t=12-qfxyEnbQkcQOu8U0Vsg&s=19

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[grunt]

https://twitter.com/vivamjm/status/1638280259576508416?t=12-qfxyEnbQkcQOu8U0Vsg&s=19

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I think he's missing the point for once.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/kateemccann/status/1638435594761019392?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Ozyhibby]

Given the Windsor agreement is likely to fall now, would a possible solution be to include Scotland in the deal? Move the border to the Scotland/England border? Easy to build infrastructure, only a couple of main roads that can take big trucks. Scotland wants the same deal anyway. Takes away DUP objection of not being same as rest of UK. These are things we should be campaigning for.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Given the Windsor agreement is likely to fall now, would a possible solution be to include Scotland in the deal? Move the border to the Scotland/England border? Easy to build infrastructure, only a couple of main roads that can take big trucks. Scotland wants the same deal anyway. Takes away DUP objection of not being same as rest of UK. These are things we should be campaigning for.


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I thought Labour were supporting it so it would pass easily?

[Ozyhibby]

I thought Labour were supporting it so it would pass easily?

Is Sunak willing to railroad it through on Labour votes? And without the DUP, what does it do that the old protocol didn’t? The whole point of this was to get DUP inside and back in Stormont.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Is Sunak willing to railroad it through on Labour votes? And without the DUP, what does it do that the old protocol didn’t? The whole point of this was to get DUP inside and back in Stormont.


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Rumours are he's told DUP to get on with it. They will never have a deal they are happy with

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/peston/status/1638462675574300672?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Truss voting against as well. Getting close to Labour having to bail him out and if that’s the case, he might be toast.


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