Brexit - What Now.

[G B Young]

Maybe belongs on the Covid thread, but this from the Spectator (I've just pasted the intro as there's a paywall for the full article):

Brexit may have helped Britainwin the race for a Covid vaccine (http://t.email3.telegraph.co.uk/r/?id=h7d688f98,3a678c47,36c4d7ce&WT.mc_id=e_DM1311773&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_FAM_New_ES&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_FAM_New_ES20201203&utm_campaign=DM1311773). The leader of a major pharmaceutical firm claimed that decoupling from the EU's regulatory and purchasing mechanisms enabled "nimble buying" of hundreds of millions of doses and a rapid green light for the Pfizer-BioNTech jab. Hugo Fry, the UK managing director of drugmaker Sanofi, said the UK's emergency approval of the vaccine had set a precedent that could put Britain at the "front of the queue" (http://t.email3.telegraph.co.uk/r/?id=h7d688f98,3a678c47,36c4d7cf&WT.mc_id=e_DM1311773&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_FAM_New_ES&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_FAM_New_ES20201203&utm_campaign=DM1311773) for future drugs.

[Peevemor]

Maybe belongs on the Covid thread, but this from the Spectator (I've just pasted the intro as there's a paywall for the full article):

Brexit may have helped Britain win the race for a Covid vaccine (http://t.email3.telegraph.co.uk/r/?id=h7d688f98,3a678c47,36c4d7ce&WT.mc_id=e_DM1311773&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_FAM_New_ES&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_FAM_New_ES20201203&utm_campaign=DM1311773). The leader of a major pharmaceutical firm claimed that decoupling from the EU's regulatory and purchasing mechanisms enabled "nimble buying" of hundreds of millions of doses and a rapid green light for the Pfizer-BioNTech jab. Hugo Fry, the UK managing director of drugmaker Sanofi, said the UK's emergency approval of the vaccine had set a precedent that could put Britain at the "front of the queue" (http://t.email3.telegraph.co.uk/r/?id=h7d688f98,3a678c47,36c4d7cf&WT.mc_id=e_DM1311773&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_FAM_New_ES&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_FAM_New_ES20201203&utm_campaign=DM1311773) for future drugs.That's already been shown as false.

[Hibrandenburg]

That's already been shown as false.

Yes, however job done as far as the Tories are concerned because people still believe it.

[danhibees1875]

That's already been shown as false.

Is that because countries within the EU can have their own regulatory programmes if they wish, and presumably the UK always did anyway?

[Peevemor]

Is that because countries within the EU can have their own regulatory programmes if they wish, and presumably the UK always did anyway?Basically yes.

Hungary were given permission to use the Russian vaccine more than a week ago.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/55163730

Yet even today I heard tories & brexiteers on BBC radio being smug beyond belief, saying that the vaccine approval was despite the EU and was a real slap in the face for them, etc.

I couldn't believe my ears.

[Ozyhibby]

Basically yes.

Hungary were given permission to use the Russian vaccine more than a week ago.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/55163730

Yet even today I heard tories & brexiteers on BBC radio being smug beyond belief, saying that the vaccine approval was despite the EU and was a real slap in the face for them, etc.

I couldn't believe my ears.

Especially when it was invented in Germany.[emoji23]


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[Peevemor]

Especially when it was invented in Germany.[emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkFunnily enough that wasn't mentioned.

[Bostonhibby]

Especially when it was invented in Germany.[emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkBy Turkish immigrants, not really what the Brexit campaign was promoting.

Wouldn't really fit on the side of Boris Brexit bus either.

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[ronaldo7]

Maybe belongs on the Covid thread, but this from the Spectator (I've just pasted the intro as there's a paywall for the full article):

Brexit may have helped Britainwin the race for a Covid vaccine (http://t.email3.telegraph.co.uk/r/?id=h7d688f98,3a678c47,36c4d7ce&WT.mc_id=e_DM1311773&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_FAM_New_ES&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_FAM_New_ES20201203&utm_campaign=DM1311773). The leader of a major pharmaceutical firm claimed that decoupling from the EU's regulatory and purchasing mechanisms enabled "nimble buying" of hundreds of millions of doses and a rapid green light for the Pfizer-BioNTech jab. Hugo Fry, the UK managing director of drugmaker Sanofi, said the UK's emergency approval of the vaccine had set a precedent that could put Britain at the "front of the queue" (http://t.email3.telegraph.co.uk/r/?id=h7d688f98,3a678c47,36c4d7cf&WT.mc_id=e_DM1311773&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_FAM_New_ES&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_FAM_New_ES20201203&utm_campaign=DM1311773) for future drugs.

Im quite sure the way that Gavin Williamson was spraffing about how "the Brits" were better than anyone else will hold us in good stead for the future.

In other news, it's a pile of mince.

[lapsedhibee]

Yet even today I heard tories & brexiteers on BBC radio being smug beyond belief, saying that the vaccine approval was despite the EU and was a real slap in the face for them, etc.


******* embarrassing. Not so much the rampant lying, but that after more than four years this crap still doesn't get properly challenged by broadcasters.

[Peevemor]

******* embarrassing. Not so much the rampant lying, but that after more than four years this crap still doesn't get properly challenged by broadcasters.I think it was radio 5 live. There's often interesting enough chat but it was stomach churning this morning. Honestly, I was swearing at the stream.

[jonty]

Maybe belongs on the Covid thread, but this from the Spectator (I've just pasted the intro as there's a paywall for the full article):

Brexit may have helped Britainwin the race for a Covid vaccine (http://t.email3.telegraph.co.uk/r/?id=h7d688f98,3a678c47,36c4d7ce&WT.mc_id=e_DM1311773&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_FAM_New_ES&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_FAM_New_ES20201203&utm_campaign=DM1311773). The leader of a major pharmaceutical firm claimed that decoupling from the EU's regulatory and purchasing mechanisms enabled "nimble buying" of hundreds of millions of doses and a rapid green light for the Pfizer-BioNTech jab. Hugo Fry, the UK managing director of drugmaker Sanofi, said the UK's emergency approval of the vaccine had set a precedent that could put Britain at the "front of the queue" (http://t.email3.telegraph.co.uk/r/?id=h7d688f98,3a678c47,36c4d7cf&WT.mc_id=e_DM1311773&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_FAM_New_ES&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_FAM_New_ES20201203&utm_campaign=DM1311773) for future drugs.

https://fullfact.org/health/coronavirus-vaccine-brexit/

How anyone can defend this shower is beyond me.

[lapsedhibee]

At last, Johnson is taking personal charge of negotiations. Thank goodness. Von der Leyen will be overwhelmed by his boyish wit and charm, UK will get everything we want, and the sunny uplands will be here. Hurrah!

[Future17]

Maybe belongs on the Covid thread, but this from the Spectator (I've just pasted the intro as there's a paywall for the full article):

Brexit may have helped Britainwin the race for a Covid vaccine (http://t.email3.telegraph.co.uk/r/?id=h7d688f98,3a678c47,36c4d7ce&WT.mc_id=e_DM1311773&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_FAM_New_ES&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_FAM_New_ES20201203&utm_campaign=DM1311773). The leader of a major pharmaceutical firm claimed that decoupling from the EU's regulatory and purchasing mechanisms enabled "nimble buying" of hundreds of millions of doses and a rapid green light for the Pfizer-BioNTech jab. Hugo Fry, the UK managing director of drugmaker Sanofi, said the UK's emergency approval of the vaccine had set a precedent that could put Britain at the "front of the queue" (http://t.email3.telegraph.co.uk/r/?id=h7d688f98,3a678c47,36c4d7cf&WT.mc_id=e_DM1311773&WT.tsrc=email&etype=Edi_FAM_New_ES&utmsource=email&utm_medium=Edi_FAM_New_ES20201203&utm_campaign=DM1311773) for future drugs.

The regulatory aspect has already been proven to be false, but the purchasing aspect is interesting. I don't think it's true either, but I'd be interested to hear more about it. Not interested enough to give money to The Spectator though. :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

At last, Johnson is taking personal charge of negotiations. Thank goodness. Von der Leyen will be overwhelmed by his boyish wit and charm, UK will get everything we want, and the sunny uplands will be here. Hurrah!Boris Takes Control.

Fits on the side of bus, even if the bus is made in Europe and stuck in a muddy field in Kent.



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[Moulin Yarns]

Boris Takes Control.

Fits on the side of bus, even if the bus is made in Europe and stuck in a muddy field in Kent.



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That might have worked if Alexander Dennis wasn't one of the world's larges bus manufacturer :wink:

[Bostonhibby]

That might have worked if Alexander Dennis wasn't one of the world's larges bus manufacturer :wink:Parts manufactured in europe and beyond. The chewing gum under the seats will have a proud UK connection.

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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/only-france-would-try-to-blow-up-the-brexit-talks/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Bloody French nationalism. [emoji23]


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[lapsedhibee]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/only-france-would-try-to-blow-up-the-brexit-talks/amp?__twitter_impression=true


Anthony Browne MP, former Europe correspondent for a right wing British newspaper. We should have more of them in Parliament, as they're such reliable sources of information.

[hibsbollah]

Anthony Browne MP, former Europe correspondent for a right wing British newspaper. We should have more of them in Parliament, as they're such reliable sources of information.

What he really wanted to say was they are surrender monkeys who would be speaking German if it wasnt for us, they eat weird cheese and stink of garlic.

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/lbc/status/1334437937904279558?s=21


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[lapsedhibee]

https://twitter.com/lbc/status/1334437937904279558?s=21
Scaremongering. If Lithuanian drivers don't want to bring their trucks over the channel on to our world-beating roads, shirley they can be replaced by commonwealth drivers with their trucks? Plenty people in India, Pakistan, Jamaica looking for work.

[Smartie]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/only-france-would-try-to-blow-up-the-brexit-talks/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Bloody French nationalism. [emoji23]


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Utter drivel.

[Bostonhibby]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/only-france-would-try-to-blow-up-the-brexit-talks/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Bloody French nationalism. [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkThe nasty party is lashing out in all directions and it'll only get worse, lots of things on the horizon where a scapegoat needs to be found to distract from who is actually culpable.

Mobilisation of the media has begun.

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[ballengeich]

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/only-france-would-try-to-blow-up-the-brexit-talks/amp?__twitter_impression=true

Bloody French nationalism. [emoji23]


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France "has the most brazenly nationalist political culture in Western Europe. " - discuss.

[Skol]

David Davis predicted it would come to this......albeit he was happy when Liam Fox said it would be the easiest trade deal in history.

[Peevemor]

Anthony Browne MP, former Europe correspondent for a right wing British newspaper. We should have more of them in Parliament, as they're such reliable sources of information.I heard him on the radio a few weeks ago. I can't remember what it was about but he really pissed me off (I remember looking him up on the Internet at the time).

[lapsedhibee]

I heard him on the radio a few weeks ago. I can't remember what it was about but he really pissed me off (I remember looking him up on the Internet at the time).

In 2011 Browne wrote a blog on the ConservativeHome website titled "Why we shouldn't leave the EU". Browne argued against a referendum on British membership of the EU, and said that "disentangling from the EU would be a hideous set of complex negotiations across pretty much the entire range of government functions."

On Saturday 20 July 2019, Browne was announced as the Conservative parliamentary candidate for South Cambridgeshire.

Wonder why his views have changed. :hmmm:

[Callum_62]

. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201205/8fb402194777a9e1ab34f4bc774cca8c.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201205/274e7af32d33e76285fd219ac875d21e.jpg

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[Glory Lurker]

Vive la France.

[Billy Whizz]

We need this fixed and pronto
The Food industry is in limbo

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1336301505171902464?s=21

Johnson backs down on breaking the law. This probably paved the way for a deal. Doubt he’s going to Brussels unless he is ready to give them what they want before proudly proclaiming his deal making genius.


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[Glory Lurker]

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1336301505171902464?s=21

Johnson backs down on breaking the law. This probably paved the way for a deal. Doubt he’s going to Brussels unless he is ready to give them what they want before proudly proclaiming his deal making genius.


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Irish Sea border?

[G B Young]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55229681

Hopefully a positive sign that a trade deal will follow. After nearly a year of relentlessly depressing Covid news, it would be grim to think that we'll simply slip back into an endless Brexit news agenda now that the vaccines are being rolled out and an end to this pandemic is on the horizon.

[SHODAN]

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1336301505171902464?s=21

Johnson backs down on breaking the law. This probably paved the way for a deal. Doubt he’s going to Brussels unless he is ready to give them what they want before proudly proclaiming his deal making genius.


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Thank ****ing lord.

[CloudSquall]

"This means, in order to comply with EU requirements, some checks will be needed on certain goods entering Northern Ireland from Great Britain"

Boris is getting pumped in negotiations just as badly as Theresa.

[Keith_M]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55229681

Hopefully a positive sign that a trade deal will follow. After nearly a year of relentlessly depressing Covid news, it would be grim to think that we'll simply slip back into an endless Brexit news agenda now that the vaccines are being rolled out and an end to this pandemic is on the horizon.


Any deal made at this late date is going to have serious flaws but I still think it's better to have at least some trading deal with the EU than none.

It's ridiculous that they haven't made any progress whatsoever since the deal Theresa May presented to, and was rejected by, her own party.

They should have just gone with May's deal and at least given everybody some time to prepare.

[JeMeSouviens]

Any deal made at this late date is going to have serious flaws but I still think it's better to have at least some trading deal with the EU than none.

It's ridiculous that they haven't made any progress whatsoever since the deal Theresa May presented to, and was rejected by, her own party.

They should have just gone with May's deal and at least given everybody some time to prepare.

:agree:

It's easy to say in hindsight, but parliament's remainers might have had a fighting chance of passing May's deal with a confirmatory ref attached and even if we'd ended up with that deal, as crap as it was, it was a lot better than what we're going to get.

[Bostonhibby]

"This means, in order to comply with EU requirements, some checks will be needed on certain goods entering Northern Ireland from Great Britain"

Boris is getting pumped in negotiations just as badly as Theresa.It's almost as if the illegal Internal Market Bill was irrelevant because the EU knew all along that when Bozo got down to the detail it would all fall away.

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[Bostonhibby]

:agree:

It's easy to say in hindsight, but parliament's remainers might have had a fighting chance of passing May's deal with a confirmatory ref attached and even if we'd ended up with that deal, as crap as it was, it was a lot better than what we're going to get.This is likely to be very near the mark and has been for some time IMO.

All that will happen is Bozo and the gang will spin the eventual deal they scramble out with as a victory and start talking about it in those terms.

Swiftly issue an appropriately short but nationalistic slogan to go with it and it's Britannia 1 Johnny Foreigner 0.

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[Just Alf]

Any deal made at this late date is going to have serious flaws but I still think it's better to have at least some trading deal with the EU than none.

It's ridiculous that they haven't made any progress whatsoever since the deal Theresa May presented to, and was rejected by, her own party.

They should have just gone with May's deal and at least given everybody some time to prepare.Absolutely, and it wouldn't be set in stone, some areas could have had ongoing discussions to get into a better position for both parties..... same could be said for whatever's agreed now to be fair but starting from a much lower bar :-/


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[ballengeich]

"This means, in order to comply with EU requirements, some checks will be needed on certain goods entering Northern Ireland from Great Britain"

Boris is getting pumped in negotiations just as badly as Theresa.
same as this time last year

[lapsedhibee]

Boris is getting pumped in negotiations just as badly as Theresa.

Just playing things cannily until The Germans start begging us to buy their cars and The Italians their prosecco. Have you somehow missed the David Davis analysis? :dunno:

[CropleyWasGod]

Another reason to hate Jim Ratcliffe

BBC News - Sir Jim Ratcliffe confirms new car to be made in France
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55236852

And an even better reason for Geraint Thomas to find a new team 🙄

[Kato]

Another reason to hate Jim Ratcliffe

BBC News - Sir Jim Ratcliffe confirms new car to be made in France
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-55236852

And an even better reason for Geraint Thomas to find a new team 🙄

But it was all those furriners ruining the country who were the villains that caused Brexit, not the cuddly, lovely uber-capitalist billionaires.

[Bostonhibby]

But it was all those furriners ruining the country who were the villains that caused Brexit, not the cuddly, lovely uber-capitalist billionaires.But obviously not all those Russian foreigners who seem to be well settled in the richest parts of London with no immediately apparent reason for their residency[emoji6]

It's not even that they are here as a result of that pesky right to be here under the EU freedom of movement.

However do they manage to remain?

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[Radium]

https://youtu.be/VQs0iLNLCzY

Analysis from the Telegraph.

Conclusion seems to be that ‘No deal’ is the political decision that can be spun as the public’s choice because they voted Tory.

Who would have thought it.


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[Glory Lurker]

'Mon the EU.

[CloudSquall]

Maximum lolz from Michael Gove on NI..

"That means Northern Ireland will enjoy the best of both worlds: access to the EU single market and at the same time unfettered access to the rest of the UK market.”


https://mobile.twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1336379164983701506

Years of negotiations to give NI what all of the UK had 4 years ago.

[Kato]

Maximum lolz from Michael Gove on NI..

"That means Northern Ireland will enjoy the best of both worlds: access to the EU single market and at the same time unfettered access to the rest of the UK market.”


https://mobile.twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1336379164983701506

Years of negotiations to give NI what all of the UK had 4 years ago.There is no sense to be made from Gove's utterances. He contradicts himself from minute to minute. You have to wonder if his "experiment" with the peas and barley is actually a habit given the amount of crap he talks.

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[Ozyhibby]

Maximum lolz from Michael Gove on NI..

"That means Northern Ireland will enjoy the best of both worlds: access to the EU single market and at the same time unfettered access to the rest of the UK market.”


https://mobile.twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1336379164983701506

Years of negotiations to give NI what all of the UK had 4 years ago.

If that is the best of both worlds then why can’t Scotland have that deal?


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[Glory Lurker]

If that is the best of both worlds then why can’t Scotland have that deal?


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Exactly. We voted for it far more than they did.

NI gets what it asked for.
England gets what it asked for.
Wales gets what it asked for.
Scotland gets its cereal.

[Kato]

Exactly. We voted for it far more than they did.

NI gets what it asked for.
England gets what it asked for.
Wales gets what it asked for.
Scotland gets its cereal.That's as incisive a perspective as your likely to get. Gibraltar is welcome to be part of an independent Scotland if it wants. Saying that a new referendum is unlikely to be "given", so cereal it is.

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[Chorley Hibee]

https://twitter.com/pmdfoster/status/1336301505171902464?s=21

Johnson backs down on breaking the law. This probably paved the way for a deal. Doubt he’s going to Brussels unless he is ready to give them what they want before proudly proclaiming his deal making genius.


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He's going to arrive back Neville Chamberlain like with his "peace for our time" moment.

[Bostonhibby]

He's going to arrive back Neville Chamberlain like with his "peace for our time" moment.It'll only be when he gets back and reads the detail of what he's actually signed up to that he realises that he's been guaranteed peas in our time and UK already has plenty peas.



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[Kato]

He's going to arrive back Neville Chamberlain like with his "peace for our time" moment.He sees himself as a modern Churchill but ends up emulating Chamberlain. Sounds par for the course.

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[Keith_M]

Word: Brexiter (not to be confused with Brexiteer, or an ordinary person who simply voted for Brexit).

Meaning: A very rich person who is a vocal, and usually financial, supporter of Brexit. Will often express wish to 'put the Great back into Great Britain', or similar jingoistic phrases.

Note: Can occasionally also refer to a politician or other campaigner for Brexit, who may even themselves be married to an EU citizen and has since relocated away from the UK. These are simply 'tools' (pun intended) used by the rich Brexiter to get their way.

Origin: The word itself is formed from the joining of ('Br)itain' and 'Exit', to describe the insatiable desire of said rich person to physically and/or economically 'exit Britain' (i.e. Br-Exiter).

This desire normally manifests itself in the relocation of the person's business to a tax haven outside of the UK, commonly Monaco, Singapore or the Cayman Islands. Often the 'Brexiter', and any manufacturing of goods by their business, will follow suit.

Additional Traits: Hypocrisy. While a very vocal proponent of Brexit themselves, the Brexiter will shamelessly take advantage of EU subsidies or relocate parts of their business to areas within the EU (normally because of the difficulty of trading from outside the free trade zone).

e.g. 'Brexit billionaire James Dyson hoovers up £3.7m in EU handouts amid hypocrisy claims' (https://www.mirror.co.uk/money/city-news/brexit-billionaire-james-dyson-hoovers-22747422)

Examples:

James Dyson:

Announced relocation of Head Office to Singapore in 2019.
Products designed in the UK but manufactured in Asia.
Previously sold his business to a shell company (also owned by him) in Malta for tax reasons.

Jim Ratcliffe (Company: Ineos, UK's Richest Man):

Located in Monaco for tax avoidance (to save £4bn in tax (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2019/feb/17/brexiter-jim-ratcliffe-uk-richest-man-plans-save-4bn-pounds-tax-monaco-move))
Announced manufacture of successor to Land Rover to be built in Wales, but has now decided it will be built in France (https://www.theguardian.com/business/2020/dec/08/ineos-boss-opts-to-build-british-heir-to-land-rover-defender-in-france), with a factory and workforce from Mercedes Benz

[Ozyhibby]

Meeting tonight did not go well. No deal looking very likely.


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[marinello59]

Meeting tonight did not go well. No deal looking very likely.


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I think it’s almost certain.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201210/1383650bbb521b29e9c96a1da4fb4364.jpg


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[neil7908]

Meeting tonight did not go well. No deal looking very likely.


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Given how desperate we have been to extend the talks, missing deadline after self imposed deadline, I was sure Boris would cave.

I really despair at this country. We are on the way down and will never recover internationally.

The US has taken a huge hit under Trump but its rebound begins in January. We have voted for permanent mutilation.

[Ozyhibby]

Given how desperate we have been to extend the talks, missing deadline after self imposed deadline, I was sure Boris would cave.

I really despair at this country. We are on the way down and will never recover internationally.

The US has taken a huge hit under Trump but its rebound begins in January. We have voted for permanent mutilation.

Scotland has an escape route at least.


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[Ozyhibby]

Unionists in NI just starting to realise what has happened to them.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201210/b69482e9c151b75c0ae778a4a0dabfe2.jpg


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[JeMeSouviens]

Scotland has an escape route at least.


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We have a one oared lifeboat and a stretch of shark infested water to cross but it’s *still* better than being tied to the mast of the sinking HMS Brexit.

[One Day Soon]

Given how desperate we have been to extend the talks, missing deadline after self imposed deadline, I was sure Boris would cave.

I really despair at this country. We are on the way down and will never recover internationally.

The US has taken a huge hit under Trump but its rebound begins in January. We have voted for permanent mutilation.

Not formally, but we’ll be back to an accommodation with the EU within the next few years. The economics and business will drive it regardless of what the politicians screw up. And the electorate is going to learn the hard way.

[One Day Soon]

We have a one oared lifeboat and a stretch of shark infested water to cross but it’s *still* better than being tied to the mast of the sinking HMS Brexit.

My analogy is more like ‘we’ve hit an iceberg (the Captain steered straight at it) we’re slowly limping, weakened, to harbour, but some of the crew think we should get into lifeboats and head back through the ice field to look for safety that way. I’m for getting to port, dumping the captain, refitting the ship and starting afresh.

[One Day Soon]

Unionists in NI just starting to realise what has happened to them.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201210/b69482e9c151b75c0ae778a4a0dabfe2.jpg


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That is a fascinating article. The consequences for the DUP will be interesting to see.

[Kato]

My analogy is more like ‘we’ve hit an iceberg (the Captain steered straight at it) we’re slowly limping, weakened, to harbour, but some of the crew think we should get into lifeboats and head back through the ice field to look for safety that way. I’m for getting to port, dumping the captain, refitting the ship and starting afresh.We're not heading towards a port.

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[Bostonhibby]

That is a fascinating article. The consequences for the DUP will be interesting to see.Interesting read, you'd think Bozo used them then dumped on them from a great height.



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[Bostonhibby]

We're not heading towards a port.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using TapatalkBozo thinks he's piloting the good ship Britannia towards that promised land, clear blue skies etc etc..... but it's more likely to end up run aground at Barnard Castle where he'll say he always intended to be.

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[Keith_M]

Bozo thinks he's piloting the good ship Britannia towards that promised land, clear blue skies etc etc..... but it's more likely to end up run aground at Barnard Castle where he'll say he always intended to be.

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It's the HMS Unicorn and it's currently going round in circles looking for some Bluebirds and the White Cliffs of Dover.

Sadly it can't dock at any of the English ports as they're all backed up with HGVs... and Nicola Sturgeon and her Dentist have kiboshed landing at a Scottish Port, in case the boat is overrun with rampaging Weegies.

[Kato]

Bozo thinks he's piloting the good ship Britannia towards that promised land, clear blue skies etc etc..... but it's more likely to end up run aground at Barnard Castle where he'll say he always intended to be.

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We've ran aground the ice-berg and it'll be 30-40 years before it melts. Meanwhile it'll be crushing the hull and most of the crew and over half the passengers are cheering while it cracks. The upper decks will be fine whilst 2nd and 3rd class has to bail the icy water. Meanwhile an unexpected infestation/pandemic of rats are eating away at the resources.

I could get more convoluted with this analogy but it's too depressing.

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[lapsedhibee]

Interesting read, you'd think Bozo used them then dumped on them from a great height.


Wilson was on the TV last night talking about how the situation for NI was all May's fault and Johnson was the man clearing up her mess, though he hadn't finished the job yet. :crazy:

[Bostonhibby]

It's the HMS Unicorn and it's currently going round in circles looking for some Bluebirds and the White Cliffs of Dover.

Sadly it can't dock at any of the English ports as they're all backed up with HGVs... and Nicola Sturgeon and her Dentist have kiboshed landing at a Scottish Port, in case the boat is overrun with rampaging Weegies.Ach all this piss taking, you'll see, there'll be an Anglo Saxon choir resplendent in Ian Murray Union jack suits singing that patriotic favourite There'll be Bluebells over the white hills off Bognor, at midnight on 31st December.

So long as Wetherspoons closes early.

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[Bostonhibby]

Wilson was on the TV last night talking about how the situation for NI was all May's fault and Johnson was the man clearing up her mess, though he hadn't finished the job yet. :crazy:He hasn't really got anywhere else to run though, he's tied to Bozo's arrangement and will be left to burn, which is pleasing

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[Bostonhibby]

We've ran aground the ice-berg and it'll be 30-40 years before it melts. Meanwhile it'll be crushing the hull and most of the crew and over half the passengers are cheering while it cracks. The upper decks will be fine whilst 2nd and 3rd class has to bail the icy water. Meanwhile an unexpected infestation/pandemic of rats are eating away at the resources.

I could get more convoluted with this analogy but it's too depressing.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using TapatalkI don't think you're far off the mark sadly.

A lot of turkeys who voted for xmas will be wondering why the ovens were being turned on.

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[One Day Soon]

I don't think you're far off the mark sadly.

A lot of turkeys who voted for xmas will be wondering why the ovens were being turned on.

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We can't even agree on the facts of the analogy(s) though at least so far no-one is suggesting the original sharks are on onboard, snakes/sharks on a plane style. Only the appearance of Leonard Di Caprio could make things worse.

[Bostonhibby]

We can't even agree on the facts of the analogy(s) though at least so far no-one is suggesting the original sharks are on onboard, snakes/sharks on a plane style. Only the appearance of Leonard Di Caprio could make things worse.[emoji16]

I'm going for a lie down.

For the record that's a rest rather than some alternative truth event organised by Bozo and the nasty party.

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[Onceinawhile]

So norther Ireland will effectively be separate from the mainland great Britain and will be under the same jurisdiction as the Republic of Ireland.

This to all intents and purposes means that a United Ireland is a real possibility right?

[Keith_M]

We can't even agree on the facts of the analogy(s) though at least so far no-one is suggesting the original sharks are on onboard, snakes/sharks on a plane style. Only the appearance of Leonard Di Caprio could make things worse.


What's the name of the film? TitaniSnakeSharkNado?

[lapsedhibee]

So norther Ireland will effectively be separate from the mainland great Britain and will be under the same jurisdiction as the Republic of Ireland.

This to all intents and purposes means that a United Ireland is a real possibility right?

Shirley inevitable?

[Keith_M]

Would that mean all the Celtc and The Rangers fans travelling over from NornIron would have to apply for visas?


Just how funny would that be.

:greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

So norther Ireland will effectively be separate from the mainland great Britain and will be under the same jurisdiction as the Republic of Ireland.

This to all intents and purposes means that a United Ireland is a real possibility right?

NI will live under EU rules but will have no representation to the EU. NI businesses and people will soon find themselves making representations to Dublin on these rules in order to influence them. Once they get used to looking to Dublin for change then it’s only going one way.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Would that mean all the Celtc and The Rangers fans travelling over from NornIron would have to apply for visas?


Just how funny would that be.

:greengrin

Only until the bridge is built. :wink:

[McD]

I don't think you're far off the mark sadly.

A lot of turkeys who voted for xmas will be wondering why the ovens were being turned on.

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Sadly I'm not sure the turkeys will, they'll blame the europeans for not rolling over to our demands, and talk about threatening to bankrupt BMW and Audi by stopping buying their cars (because apparently they only sell them in Britain), and rant about how they'd all be speaking German if it wasn't for us, and how we'll not be setting foot in Spain/Greece/Austria/Portugal/Bulgaria/etc and giving them any money from now on

:rolleyes:

[ACLeith]

Only until the bridge is built. :wink:

A bridge over troubled water? From BJ it would be the sound of silence?

[Bostonhibby]

Sadly I'm not sure the turkeys will, they'll blame the europeans for not rolling over to our demands, and talk about threatening to bankrupt BMW and Audi by stopping buying their cars (because apparently they only sell them in Britain), and rant about how they'd all be speaking German if it wasn't for us, and how we'll not be setting foot in Spain/Greece/Austria/Portugal/Bulgaria/etc and giving them any money from now on

:rolleyes:Been hearing this down here for a while. Always useful to point to BMW and Audi global sales and where they're rising.

An interesting contrast with brand UK car manufacturing, for example.

It's all very knee jerk and negative and about attacking or threatening whoever the perceived person responsible for all this is.

We're nowhere near as important as Bozo has encouraged some to think and the big EU corporations will try and accomodate our small market but if it's too difficult or expensive to do there's softer emerging markets to get into with many more customers than UK.

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[Ozyhibby]

Sadly I'm not sure the turkeys will, they'll blame the europeans for not rolling over to our demands, and talk about threatening to bankrupt BMW and Audi by stopping buying their cars (because apparently they only sell them in Britain), and rant about how they'd all be speaking German if it wasn't for us, and how we'll not be setting foot in Spain/Greece/Austria/Portugal/Bulgaria/etc and giving them any money from now on

:rolleyes:

It’s mental that we appear to be taking on all the tariffs now rather than accepting some tariffs in the future only if we diverge on hypothetical future standards? There can’t be any future tariffs punishment worse than the one we are taking on now? Am I missing something? WTO rules are as bad as it gets?


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[Callum_62]

It’s mental that we appear to be taking on all the tariffs now rather than accepting some tariffs in the future only if we diverge on hypothetical future standards? There can’t be any future tariffs punishment worse than the one we are taking on now? Am I missing something? WTO rules are as bad as it gets?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYes but thankfully we are getting the Australia deal

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[JeMeSouviens]

It’s mental that we appear to be taking on all the tariffs now rather than accepting some tariffs in the future only if we diverge on hypothetical future standards? There can’t be any future tariffs punishment worse than the one we are taking on now? Am I missing something? WTO rules are as bad as it gets?


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:agree:


David Gauke @DavidGauke

The Govt position is that it’s intolerable to enter into an agreement where there’s a possibility that, at some point in future, tariffs & quotas on EU trade will apply. So we’ll leave on WTO terms & tariffs & quotas on EU trade will apply immediately. And we’ll prosper mightily.

[McD]

Been hearing this down here for a while. Always useful to point to BMW and Audi global sales and where they're rising.

An interesting contrast with brand UK car manufacturing, for example.

It's all very knee jerk and negative and about attacking or threatening whoever the perceived person responsible for all this is.

We're nowhere near as important as Bozo has encouraged some to think and the big EU corporations will try and accomodate our small market but if it's too difficult or expensive to do there's softer emerging markets to get into with many more customers than UK.

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Totally agree mate, there seems to be zero responsibility taken for this, just blame the other side for not accepting our demands unconditionally, and an arrogant 'don't you know who we are?' kind of tone, which has been encouraged completely by BoJo et al, and coupled to statements like 'easiest negotiations ever'

[Keith_M]

Only until the bridge is built. :wink:


TBF, Boris does have some experience when it comes to bridges.

[Keith_M]

Sadly I'm not sure the turkeys will, they'll blame the europeans for not rolling over to our demands, and talk about threatening to bankrupt BMW and Audi by stopping buying their cars (because apparently they only sell them in Britain), and rant about how they'd all be speaking German if it wasn't for us, and how we'll not be setting foot in Spain/Greece/Austria/Portugal/Bulgaria/etc and giving them any money from now on

:rolleyes:


Vorsprung durch Technik!


See, it's started already...

[Bostonhibby]

TBF, Boris does have some experience when it comes to bridges.Especially the virtual type where you pay your consultant chums tens of millions and hey presto the Invisible Boris Bridge.



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[Moulin Yarns]

The EU publish a contingency plan, which looks a bit like an extension to the transition period to me.


A European Commission statement published on Thursday morning said there was currently "significant uncertainty" about whether a deal would be in place by 1 January.


"Our responsibility is to be prepared for all eventualities, including not having a deal in place," Ms von der Leyen said.


Some sectors would be disproportionately affected, the commission said, adding that it was proposing four contingency measures "to mitigate some of the significant disruptions" if a deal were not in place:




To ensure the provision of "certain air services" between the UK and EU for six months, provided the UK does the same
To allow aviation safety certificates to be used in EU aircraft without disruption to avoid grounding
To ensure basic connectivity for road freight and passenger transport for six months, provided the UK does the same
To allow the possibility of reciprocal fishing access for UK and EU vessels in each other's waters for one year, or until an agreement is reached

[Since90+2]

Britain could be barred from entering the EU from 1st January due to only essential travel being permitted during the pandemic. Story on BBC News.

[Moulin Yarns]

Britain could be barred from entering the EU from 1st January due to only essential travel being permitted during the pandemic. Story on BBC News.

More details


UK travellers could be barred from entering the EU from 1 January as travel rules associated with being part of the EU expire and pandemic restrictions block entry.


The UK will become a "third-party nation" when it stops following EU trading rules on 31 December.


This means entry into the EU would then be based on essential travel only.


Currently only countries with low coronavirus infection rates qualify for non-essential travel.


There are only eight countries with low Covid rates are on the approved list for free travel and there are no plans to add the UK to that list.


Foreign Secretary Dominic Raab told the BBC's Today programme that Covid restrictions would depend on what the EU and its member states decide.


He added that "restrictions on travel, inevitably, is going to be something that's kept under review".


With talks about a trade deal between the UK and the EU still continuing, there is a possibility this could change.


Alternatively, individual member state countries could decide to override the EU rules and create a corridor with the UK.






A spokesperson for the airline Easyjet said: "There is no EU blanket law which requires individual states to limit entry from those arriving from outside the EU and so just as they do today, we expect individual European countries to continue to apply their own rules."


Norway, which is part of the EU travel arrangement, said British citizens who do not live in the country will be barred from entering the country from 1 January, the Financial Times newspaper reported.



Travel expert Simon Calder told the BBC that many regions dependent on tourism, such as the Canary Islands, may well make an exemption for British tourists, "but there's no obligation to at the moment".


Meanwhile Greece has introduced quarantine for visitors over Christmas and the New Year "which effectively rules it out as a worthwhile destination", he said.

[Hibrandenburg]

Vorsprung durch Technik!


See, it's started already...

Ffs, this place is like a Kindergarten sometimes.

[CropleyWasGod]

Ffs, this place is like a Kindergarten sometimes.

How so? Have we put in a bid for Schadenfreude?

[Hibrandenburg]

How so? Have we put in a bid for Schadenfreude?

9.

[Keith_M]

9.


I have an illness that makes me say 8 when I mean 9.

That's why I can never say no to a German girl.



(Lee Mack)

[Moulin Yarns]

I have an illness that makes me say 8 when I mean 9.

That's why I can never say no to a German girl.



(Lee Mack)

Acht, I should have seen that coming. :wink:

[Keith_M]

Acht, I should have seen that coming. :wink:

:greengrin




Did I mention that after all the confusion, we usually settle on 6?

[Moulin Yarns]

:greengrin




Did I mention that after all the confusion, we usually settle on 6?


:thumbsup::not worth

[Keith_M]

:thumbsup::not worth



Thank you, I'm here all week!


:wink:

[JeMeSouviens]

Thank you, I'm here all week!


:wink:

I 4'ed as much.

[Keith_M]

I 4'ed as much.


Don't you start!


:na na:

[Hibrandenburg]

Don't you start!


:na na:

A wee 11 told me you're just 10 that.

[CropleyWasGod]

A wee 11 told me you're just 10 that.

Yer all such 3 wits, eh nein?

[Moulin Yarns]

I 4'ed as much.

Damn, I'm off the computer now and it's not quite so easy to use Google translate on the phone. 😉

[Hibrandenburg]

Yer all such 3 wits, eh nein?

That'2 we Germans get labelled with having no sense of humour.

[Hibrandenburg]

Erm.....Back to track. I see that finacial genius Nigel Farage has been on telly to reassure us that this is great for the British economy because the EU will be paying the UK more tariffs than the other way round. :facepalm:

[danhibees1875]

Damn, I'm off the computer now and it's not quite so easy to use Google translate on the phone. 😉

Completely off topic but just in case it's of use it's amazingly easy on phones (android anyway).

Tap on the text, select the words you want, click the three dots and hit "translator". A wee box appears and you can select which language to translate it to. :aok:

[Moulin Yarns]

Completely off topic but just in case it's of use it's amazingly easy on phones (android anyway).

Tap on the text, select the words you want, click the three dots and hit "translator". A wee box appears and you can select which language to translate it to. :aok:

Thanks for that

[Bostonhibby]

Erm.....Back to track. I see that finacial genius Nigel Farage has been on telly to reassure us that this is great for the British economy because the EU will be paying the UK more tariffs than the other way round. :facepalm:This is why he's never actually had a real job where he's been accountable for anything.

Being an MEP doesn't count as that was a salary and copper bottomed pension without actually doing anything.

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[Jones28]

:agree:

Anyone who cites WTO rules as a positive about Brexit clueless

[Keith_M]

Erm.....Back to track. I see that finacial genius Nigel Farage has been on telly to reassure us that this is great for the British economy because the EU will be paying the UK more tariffs than the other way round. :facepalm:


Awww, I just started enjoyin' maself anaw.

:boo hoo:

[Hibrandenburg]

Awww, I just started enjoyin' maself anaw.

:boo hoo:

Vee haff vays ov halting zyour fan. :monocle:

[Callum_62]

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1337102641063735301?s=19

Can someone explain why people vote for him and this party?

No deal (WTO terms) are so good they have rebranded it as Australia style deal

Also, Australia:



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https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201210/f379571c733599c5b898aee7c351753e.jpg

[Kato]

https://twitter.com/BorisJohnson/status/1337102641063735301?s=19

Can someone explain why people vote for him and this party?

No deal (WTO terms) are so good they have rebranded it as Australia style deal

Also, Australia:



Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201210/f379571c733599c5b898aee7c351753e.jpgIt's the deal with our near neighbours we need. The same deal as a country on the opposite side of the planet has. Which is none.

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[cabbageandribs1875]

Morgan Stanley planning to move £90bn of it's assets to Frankfurt



ouchy

[Stairway 2 7]

We're going to be in a recession unlike we've seen in decades but on the upside we'll have blue passports

[ronaldo7]

Morgan Stanley planning to move £90bn of it's assets to Frankfurt



ouchy

I remember them moving their early scouting party not long after the Brexit vote, and saying we were in soapy bubble, only to be told by a couple of posters not to be daft, it was only about 8 to 10 jobs moving.

It looks like they've been busy boys and girls.

[stokesmessiah]

I love the fact that they are packaging this as an “Australia style deal” which is the polite way of saying...we secured hee haw.

[Keith_M]

Morgan Stanley planning to move £90bn of it's assets to Frankfurt



ouchy


JP Morgan are moving their European registered head office and a large number of jobs out of the UK.

[Keith_M]

We're going to be in a recession unlike we've seen in decades but on the upside we'll have blue passports


...made in the EU.

[SHODAN]

We're going to be in a recession unlike we've seen in decades but on the upside we'll have blue passports

And England will still vote Tory in 2024.

[Moulin Yarns]

It's the deal with our near neighbours we need. The same deal as a country on the opposite side of the planet has. Which is none.

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https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55272377

(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-55272377)


Even the Aussies think it's a bad deal :rolleyes:

[Keith_M]

Everybody knows that this talk of an Australian Style Deal is just bull****.

They won't admit the truth, which is that they've totally failed in their duty to the country.


But never mind, Rule Britannia and all that. I'm sure we'll be fine when they send us another couple of royals on a train

[SHODAN]

Can't wait to see how they'll spin hyperinflation and a massive increase to the cost of living. Probably young people's fault for not being patriotic enough. Or immigrants again, why not?

[Stairway 2 7]

A hard brexit and the farce that fallows will surely make independence odds on

[Keith_M]

I'm so glad that we''ll have an extra £350M per week to spend on the NHS, though.


https://external-content.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=http%3A%2F%2Finfacts.org%2Fwp-content%2Fuploads%2F2016%2F05%2FBattle-Bus.jpg&f=1&nofb=1

[Ozyhibby]

If we have a no deal brexit on the 1st of January then Scottish farmers are going to be faced with massive tariffs while Northern Ireland farmers will have tariff free access to the EU. How can we still be a United Kingdom when this level of unfairness exists? How can people still defend this union?

Northern Ireland is going to be businesses back door into the single market, isn’t it?


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[Hibrandenburg]

I'm still amazed at the naive arrogance of the Brexiteers I personally know. They are convinced that if the EU doesn't bow to the demands of the UK, then the EU will suffer the same hardships that will befall the UK in a no deal scenario. They seem to think that the EU will have the same problems procuring goods that the UK will because of tariffs and border issues. Not one of them seem to understand that the EU will still be in the EU come January 2021 and each individual member state will trade as normal with the other 27 member states. I just cannot fathom this level of stupidity.

[Moulin Yarns]

If we have a no deal brexit on the 1st of January then Scottish farmers are going to be faced with massive tariffs while Northern Ireland farmers will have tariff free access to the EU. How can we still be a United Kingdom when this level of unfairness exists? How can people still defend this union?

Northern Ireland is going to be businesses back door into the single market, isn’t it?


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There's also talk of scottish fishing boats moving and being registered in NI.

[danhibees1875]

If we have a no deal brexit on the 1st of January then Scottish farmers are going to be faced with massive tariffs while Northern Ireland farmers will have tariff free access to the EU. How can we still be a United Kingdom when this level of unfairness exists? How can people still defend this union?

Northern Ireland is going to be businesses back door into the single market, isn’t it?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No deal is the worst outcome of the range of bad outcomes that can come out of Brexit. But it also has the impact of being a double edge sword in terms of the union in that an independent Scotland would still have to suffer the ill-effects of a poor UK-EU trade agreement, or lack thereof - just from the other side.

What you've described there is ridiculous and unfair but Scottish farmers trade with the rUK more than they do the rEU - 61% more (2.325bn Vs 3.75bn) across the whole of food beverages and tobacco exports, I can't see a breakdown any further than that but unless farming exports are a huge outlier then it gives a rough idea of where they'll be.

It's a picture replicated to various degrees across all exports (there may be the odd outlier in there) and out of the total of Scottish exports we have 60% going to rUK.

Brexit, IMO, makes the prospects of both leaving the UK and staying in the UK bleaker - not just the later.

[Keith_M]

There's also talk of scottish fishing boats moving and being registered in NI.


What would that achieve?

:dunno:

[danhibees1875]

What would that achieve?

:dunno:

Easier access to the EU:

https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/54798942?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16076963261224&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

Edit: sorry about the link, no idea why it's doing that... :confused:

[Keith_M]

I realise that the failed Brexit talks might make Independence more likely, but that would make trading with Scotland's biggest trading partner (rUK) a lot more difficult.

There's also the issue with travel between the two nations being potentially more difficult.

I can't see the benefit just now of putting Scotland into a No Deal relationship with England, Wales and NI so, for me, it makes Independence much less of a favourable outcome.

[JeMeSouviens]

I realise that the failed Brexit talks might make Independence more likely, but that would make trading with Scotland's biggest trading partner (rUK) a lot more difficult.

There's also the issue with travel between the two nations being potentially more difficult.

I can't see the benefit just now of putting Scotland into a No Deal relationship with England, Wales and NI so, for me, it makes Independence much less of a favourable outcome.

There is no doubt that it makes the initial rupture of indy a lot worse. It does provide an opportunity to present Scotland as a haven for relocating rUK business (and people come to that) and gives us a baked in long term competitive advantage in terms of inward investment etc.

Basically do you want the certainty and comfort of being the slowly boiled frog or do you hop out of the pan and have to cross a busy road to get to the nice looking lily pond in the distance?

Other tortured analogies are available ...

[Moulin Yarns]

Easier access to the EU:

https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/54798942?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16076963261224&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

Edit: sorry about the link, no idea why it's doing that... :confused:

Yep. and I've sorted the link :wink:

[Glory Lurker]

There is no doubt that it makes the initial rupture of indy a lot worse. It does provide an opportunity to present Scotland as a haven for relocating rUK business (and people come to that) and gives us a baked in long term competitive advantage in terms of inward investment etc.

Basically do you want the certainty and comfort of being the slowly boiled frog or do you hop out of the pan and have to cross a busy road to get to the nice looking lily pond in the distance?

Other tortured analogies are available ...

Very well put.

Is the price of staying in the UK worth paying?

[danhibees1875]

Yep. and I've sorted the link :wink:

Witchcraft!

[ronaldo7]

Easier access to the EU:

https://www-bbc-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/54798942?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16076963261224&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s

Edit: sorry about the link, no idea why it's doing that... :confused:

Tories and their hacks will be sharpening their pencils getting ready to blame the SNP for the exodus. IDS will be front and centre as he hates the Nats.

[Glory Lurker]

What effect does the GFA have on the border if no deal is reached? None, I take it?

[Ozyhibby]

What effect does the GFA have on the border if no deal is reached? None, I take it?

None now. The NI protocol deals with that. NI is pretty much staying in the EU. Just without having any say in how the EU is run.


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[Glory Lurker]

None now. The NI protocol deals with that. NI is pretty much staying in the EU. Just without having any say in how the EU is run.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

But will that not only be the case if there is a deal? If there's no deal there's a hard border?

[ronaldo7]

But will that not only be the case if there is a deal? If there's no deal there's a hard border?

They've carved off NI and put the border in the Irish sea. Something no UK PM could do, apparantly.:rolleyes:

[Glory Lurker]

Thanks, Ozy and R7. I hadn't picked up that the NI Protocol was freestanding. Most unlike me to be wrong about something on the Holy Ground - exception that proves the rule! :-)

[marinello59]

They've carved off NI and put the border in the Irish sea. Something no UK PM could do, apparantly.:rolleyes:

Boris is certainly doing his bit for Scottish Independence and Irish reunification.

[Bostonhibby]

Boris is certainly doing his bit for Scottish Independence and Irish reunification.Bozo probably hasn't realised what the unionist bit in conservative and unionist party stands for.

Sturgeon and Irish Nationalists generally just need to sit back and do nothing and see how far the shambling mess can propel their causes.

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[stu in nottingham]

Bozo probably hasn't realised what the unionist bit in conservative and unionist party stands for.


Ursula von der Leyen is a trained gynecologist, I'm sure she recognised what Johnson is at least.

[Bostonhibby]

Ursula von der Leyen is a trained gynecologist, I'm sure she recognised what Johnson is at least.Do you mean proctologist?

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[hibsbollah]

Sometimes you need to step back and really think about what’s being done to us here. I’d personally almost forgotten about Brexit, or at least allowed myself to not think about for a while. We’re staggering towards No Deal. There’s barely any outrage. Even Brexiteers I know regarded No Deal as a nightmare scenario, which would never happen because we would negotiate something at the last minute because the Germans and the French will always want to sell us their cars. But it’s all going to crap and there’s no outrage despite it all. What’s going on?

[marinello59]

Sometimes you need to step back and really think about what’s being done to us here. I’d personally almost forgotten about Brexit, or at least allowed myself to not think about for a while. We’re staggering towards No Deal. There’s barely any outrage. Even Brexiteers I know regarded No Deal as a nightmare scenario, which would never happen because we would negotiate something at the last minute because the Germans and the French will always want to sell us their cars. But it’s all going to crap and there’s no outrage despite it all. What’s going on?

Covid.

[GlesgaeHibby]

The tories are now trying to claim the reason the talks have gone so badly is because of the SNP, those that voted remain etc.

https://twitter.com/AndrewBowie_MP/status/1337349496662069250

Disaster is looming, so this lot of cretins are trying to pin the blame for the inevitable disaster on anybody but themselves.

[hibsbollah]

Covid.

I know. But you can still have a cold and notice when someone’s punching you in the face at the same time.

[One Day Soon]

Sometimes you need to step back and really think about what’s being done to us here. I’d personally almost forgotten about Brexit, or at least allowed myself to not think about for a while. We’re staggering towards No Deal. There’s barely any outrage. Even Brexiteers I know regarded No Deal as a nightmare scenario, which would never happen because we would negotiate something at the last minute because the Germans and the French will always want to sell us their cars. But it’s all going to crap and there’s no outrage despite it all. What’s going on?

It is genuinely astonishing. I think people are so mentally and physically Iin bunkers from the last 12 months that they just don’t have the will to confront the reality of a no deal Brexit just now. They’re going to do Christmas and then face this afterwards.

And if it is no deal then I think there will be a serious political reckoning for the Conservatives down the line. You can spin Brexit all you like when it hasn’t actually happened yet, but trying to bluster and narrate you’re way away from people experiencing the reality of it once it’s impacting on both individuals and business is another ball game.

[Keith_M]

There is no doubt that it makes the initial rupture of indy a lot worse. It does provide an opportunity to present Scotland as a haven for relocating rUK business (and people come to that) and gives us a baked in long term competitive advantage in terms of inward investment etc.

Basically do you want the certainty and comfort of being the slowly boiled frog or do you hop out of the pan and have to cross a busy road to get to the nice looking lily pond in the distance?

Other tortured analogies are available ...



Do you have some obsession with boiling frogs?

Just seemed a bit of a strange analogy, and I'm not sure I really understood it.




https://c0.klipartz.com/pngpicture/95/755/sticker-png-boiling-frog-anecdote-idea-the-fifth-discipline-frog-animals-vertebrate-animal-metaphor-amphibian-thumbnail.png

[Smartie]

Sometimes you need to step back and really think about what’s being done to us here. I’d personally almost forgotten about Brexit, or at least allowed myself to not think about for a while. We’re staggering towards No Deal. There’s barely any outrage. Even Brexiteers I know regarded No Deal as a nightmare scenario, which would never happen because we would negotiate something at the last minute because the Germans and the French will always want to sell us their cars. But it’s all going to crap and there’s no outrage despite it all. What’s going on?

I'm alright Jack.

We're yet to actually leave the EU. We're yet to feel the negative impact of that, and to a certain extent we may be yet to experience the worst of Covid.

When people are losing their jobs, losing their homes, keeping jobs but finding that there wages don't go as far because everything is much more expensive - that's when they'll start getting angry. Right now it is still fairly comfortable for most people as they look forward to the opposite of all of these things happening.

I suspect we'll probably hear quite a lot more about the Barnett formula when that little lot properly starts to kick in for those who were sold the Brexit pup.

[Bostonhibby]

It is genuinely astonishing. I think people are so mentally and physically Iin bunkers from the last 12 months that they just don’t have the will to confront the reality of a no deal Brexit just now. They’re going to do Christmas and then face this afterwards.

And if it is no deal then I think there will be a serious political reckoning for the Conservatives down the line. You can spin Brexit all you like when it hasn’t actually happened yet, but trying to bluster and narrate you’re way away from people experiencing the reality of it once it’s impacting on both individuals and business is another ball game.Agree with this, will ultimately come down to the blame game as there's not much chance that those who campaigned for it, and those who supported the version we've got by voting for it will step up and be accountable for the consequences.

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[Callum_62]

https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1337413513829101568?s=19

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[marinello59]

I know. But you can still have a cold and notice when someone’s punching you in the face at the same time.

Brexit hasn't happened yet though and and until it does and jobs are being lost as a direct result then there will be little outrage. All most people want at the moment is to see the mass vaccination completed and our basic freedoms restored.

[Future17]

Brexit hasn't happened yet though and and until it does and jobs are being lost as a direct result then there will be little outrage. All most people want at the moment is to see the mass vaccination completed and our basic freedoms restored.

According to the Daily Express, that's what Brexit will do. :greengrin

[mjhibby]

It is genuinely astonishing. I think people are so mentally and physically Iin bunkers from the last 12 months that they just don’t have the will to confront the reality of a no deal Brexit just now. They’re going to do Christmas and then face this afterwards.

And if it is no deal then I think there will be a serious political reckoning for the Conservatives down the line. You can spin Brexit all you like when it hasn’t actually happened yet, but trying to bluster and narrate you’re way away from people experiencing the reality of it once it’s impacting on both individuals and business is another ball game.

I think your grossly underestimating the affect all the populist propaganda is having on a lot of folk especially in these difficult times. When life sucks, like it is at the moment where hundreds of thousands are worried about their jobs and paying bills and with covid on top of that then they will look for somebody to blame and the likes of Johnson and the right wing element of the media spout their bile then unfortunately as we saw with brexit, millions will believe their lies. We live in scary times where norms we took for granted are being swept aside

[BroxburnHibee]

The depressing thing is that everyone on the remain side of the argument could see this coming a mile off yet people down south voted for this idiot in their millions!

We laugh at the USA when we have a vast amount of our country willing to argue that being part of this ****show down south is the better option.

I truly despair.

[Future17]

https://twitter.com/DavidGauke/status/1337413513829101568?s=19

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It's utterly pointless asking Johnson to make promises or give guarantees, as he has no qualms about lying because he knows there are no consequences for him doing so.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1337437325979246593?s=19


Read it and weep.

[JeMeSouviens]

Do you have some obsession with boiling frogs?

Just seemed a bit of a strange analogy, and I'm not sure I really understood it.


https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boiling_frog

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/131003663_200341981700679_3130246212996468022_o.jp g?_nc_cat=109&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=EjC3CBbPMFgAX9k5iYV&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=83668f59564d3d9fdb20f31d6662f6b0&oe=5FFA1894




i don't feel in the slightest insulted, speak for yourself mate, as for Millions ? yeah right

mon Merkel

[Callum_62]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/131003663_200341981700679_3130246212996468022_o.jp g?_nc_cat=109&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=EjC3CBbPMFgAX9k5iYV&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=83668f59564d3d9fdb20f31d6662f6b0&oe=5FFA1894




i don't feel in the slightest insulted, speak for yourself mate, as for Millions ? yeah right

mon MerkelWhy would he need to speak to Merkel and not the group that's actually doing the negotiations?

The only shocking thing about this is how haphazard it appears

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[Chorley Hibee]

https://twitter.com/sturdyAlex/status/1337437325979246593?s=19


Read it and weep.

Quite literally!

[cabbageandribs1875]

Why would he need to speak to Merkel and not the group that's actually doing the negotiations?

The only shocking thing about this is how haphazard it appears

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i think it was a cry for help because the EU representatives were most likely always laughing at him :greengrin personally i'd preferred if she did answer the call but only to say those three magic words.......... go **** yerself

[Hibrandenburg]

Brexit hasn't happened yet though and and until it does and jobs are being lost as a direct result then there will be little outrage. All most people want at the moment is to see the mass vaccination completed and our basic freedoms restored.

You're spot on. One of my history teachers once said that you can divide people into 3 categories based on their ability to make use of the information available. Those at the top end of the scale will be able to make use of previous known information to ascertain what will happen, those in the middle can understand what will happen if it's explained to them and those at the bottom will actually have to make the experience themselves to understand what happened. Put simply, there's those who have a brief understanding of thermodynamics and pain who won't put their hand on a cooker hot plate because they're capable of putting 2 and 2 together, there are those who will not touch the hot plate because they've understood the warning and there are those who will only understand the consequences once they've actually touched it. I fear the silent and loud majority belong in group 3.

[Bostonhibby]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/131003663_200341981700679_3130246212996468022_o.jp g?_nc_cat=109&ccb=2&_nc_sid=8bfeb9&_nc_ohc=EjC3CBbPMFgAX9k5iYV&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=83668f59564d3d9fdb20f31d6662f6b0&oe=5FFA1894




i don't feel in the slightest insulted, speak for yourself mate, as for Millions ? yeah right

mon MerkelI'm good with it, Bozo had an oven ready deal to pop in the oven months ago so what's the point in the phone call?

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[Glory Lurker]

I'm good with it, Bozo had an oven ready deal to pop in the oven months ago so what's the point in the phone call?

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Can understand her not taking the call. Why would she want to listen to him gloating?

[Killiehibbie]

I'm still amazed at the naive arrogance of the Brexiteers I personally know. They are convinced that if the EU doesn't bow to the demands of the UK, then the EU will suffer the same hardships that will befall the UK in a no deal scenario. They seem to think that the EU will have the same problems procuring goods that the UK will because of tariffs and border issues. Not one of them seem to understand that the EU will still be in the EU come January 2021 and each individual member state will trade as normal with the other 27 member states. I just cannot fathom this level of stupidity.

But the EU have more to lose as they sell more to the UK than we sell to them! When asked if 27 countries will be more able to absorb the impact it all went quiet.

[Hibrandenburg]

Can understand her not taking the call. Why would she want to listen to him gloating?

If she took the call it would be seen as her undermining the EU negotiating team who represent the whole EU whereas Merkel only represents Germany. It looks like Boris has swallowed the whole Germany controls the EU guff.

[CropleyWasGod]

I'm good with it, Bozo had an oven ready deal to pop in the oven months ago so what's the point in the phone call?

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You need to ask?

Boris. Women.

[stu in nottingham]

Very transparently trying to subvert the negotiating procedure. Highly unlikely that accomplished politicians such as Merkel or Macron would fall for something so juvenile. Pretty certain they and the majority, if not all, European leaders have nil respect for Johnson in any case. Which is more than he deserves.

[lapsedhibee]

Highly unlikely that accomplished politicians such as Merkel or Macron would fall for something so juvenile.
Juvenile? The UK? The UK that broadcast to the world that their world-beating medical regulation system led to the priority vaccination of someone called William Shakespeare?

[cabbageandribs1875]

I'm good with it, Bozo had an oven ready deal to pop in the oven months ago so what's the point in the phone call?

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the reptilian Gove coming out with some crap as well

Gove "Northern Ireland have the best of both worlds with access to both the EU and British markets"



AYE..WE ALL DID YA DOBBER

[cabbageandribs1875]

Grade A Tory Clown

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/131182004_10223687141463190_7611483191266658605_n. jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=WT5uV-SBfH8AX907u18&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=c4985c18e655ad096220a20331f1c100&oe=5FF7FCED


can imagine him trying to play the jester

[The Harp Awakes]

Bozo probably hasn't realised what the unionist bit in conservative and unionist party stands for.

Sturgeon and Irish Nationalists generally just need to sit back and do nothing and see how far the shambling mess can propel their causes.

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Even though Wales voted for Brexit, I can see a no deal being an absolute gift to Plaid Cymru as well. I think the union is toast regardless of what happens to Brexit, but a no deal in the middle of a crippling pandemic? I can see the disintegration of the union going into turbo charge. It's just a shame it's going to take an absolute roaster of a PM and lots of grief for everyone to make it happen.

[Kato]

Boris is certainly doing his bit for Scottish Independence and Irish reunification.

He's the self-appointed, unofficial "Minister of The Union". Check the guys track record. The Union and sense of unity is done for.

[lapsedhibee]

Grade A Tory Clown

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/131182004_10223687141463190_7611483191266658605_n. jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=WT5uV-SBfH8AX907u18&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=c4985c18e655ad096220a20331f1c100&oe=5FF7FCED


can imagine him trying to play the jester

That was his only ploy, then, divide and conquer. You would think he might have noticed that in the last four years Brexitery predictions that the EU would fall apart when the UK decided to leave haven't materialised, and that the EU does sticking together rather well. Struggling to think of anything at all that's ever worked better when he's taken 'personal charge' of it. What a ******* embarrassment.

[mjhibby]

And England will still vote Tory in 2024.

I wouldn’t be too sure of that. Starmer has nearly four years to sort labour and make them electable. My main worry is that we go through three years of hell then things start to improve in 2024 as the election looms. Plus I doubt the clown Johnson will be there by then. As with the USA just the worst time to have juvenile and frankly out of their depth parties in charge.

[Future17]

That was his only ploy, then, divide and conquer. You would think he might have noticed that in the last four years Brexitery predictions that the EU would fall apart when the UK decided to leave haven't materialised, and that the EU does sticking together rather well. Struggling to think of anything at all that's ever worked better when he's taken 'personal charge' of it. What a ******* embarrassment.

Population growth.

[hibsbollah]

‘We’ll send in gunboats’ to protect our fishing fleet days the Mail and the Express.
It’s probably a good post No deal economic opportunity to be fair, intercepting refugee dinghys in the summer, attacking the French in the winter :aok:

[Callum_62]

The more I live here the more embarressed I am of this "country"

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201212/0664dec50eb441194c0e0e80d64fd0d0.jpg

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[weecounty hibby]

It is farcical now.
Worst decision ever taken by a government, followed by the worst negotiation ever by a government. Now pandering to the xenophobic morons who follow them by threatening to use warships against neighbours fishermen. Scotland needs to GTF away from these dangerous ****wits asap.

[Hibrandenburg]

The more I live here the more embarressed I am of this "country"

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201212/0664dec50eb441194c0e0e80d64fd0d0.jpg

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Try living abroad.

[Moulin Yarns]

The more I live here the more embarressed I am of this "country"

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20201212/0664dec50eb441194c0e0e80d64fd0d0.jpg

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The headline is a bit of smokescreen, they are not wanting to protect the fish. They will be killed by UK fishermen instead of Johnny foreigners.

[Callum_62]

Try living abroad.But then Il be mixing with foreigners?

Actually I'm half foreigner now after gaining a 2nd citizenship for when I did live abroad

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[The Modfather]

But then Il be mixing with foreigners?

Actually I'm half foreigner now after gaining a 2nd citizenship for when I did live abroad

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You half foreigners, coming back home and stealing our jobs!!....

[Scorrie]

‘We’ll send in gunboats’ to protect our fishing fleet days the Mail and the Express.
It’s probably a good post No deal economic opportunity to be fair, intercepting refugee dinghys in the summer, attacking the French in the winter :aok:

I was surprised we had four boats left. That must be about the whole Royal Navy these days

[Mr Grieves]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/amp/uk-northern-ireland-55277728?__twitter_impression=true

As well as NI business having an inbuilt advantage over the rest of the UK, NI residents will continue to have access to EHIC, Erasmus and freedom of movement.

It's hard to argue we're still one United Kingdom

[hibsbollah]

It is farcical now.
Worst decision ever taken by a government, followed by the worst negotiation ever by a government. Now pandering to the xenophobic morons who follow them by threatening to use warships against neighbours fishermen. Scotland needs to GTF away from these dangerous ****wits asap.

I was looking at some stats the other day, the fishing industry is such an inconsequential part of the U.K. economy. Less than a billion £ per year. By value Peterhead dwarfs all the other ports. Places like Grimsby and the south coast and Cornwall really hardly contribute anything. Culturally it’s important, I get that. But the prominence it’s given in the negotiations is out of scale and probably reflects a nationalistic desire to hark back to the 70s and the ‘war’ with the Icelandic trawlers. These days English fishing ports mostly depend on short stay tourism to stay alive.

[Moulin Yarns]

I was looking at some stats the other day, the fishing industry is such an inconsequential part of the U.K. economy. Less than a billion £ per year. By value Peterhead dwarfs all the other ports. Places like Grimsby and the south coast and Cornwall really hardly contribute anything. Culturally it’s important, I get that. But the prominence it’s given in the negotiations is out of scale and probably reflects a nationalistic desire to hark back to the 70s and the ‘war’ with the Icelandic trawlers.

COD, them were the days. :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

That was his only ploy, then, divide and conquer. You would think he might have noticed that in the last four years Brexitery predictions that the EU would fall apart when the UK decided to leave haven't materialised, and that the EU does sticking together rather well. Struggling to think of anything at all that's ever worked better when he's taken 'personal charge' of it. What a ******* embarrassment.Indeed, it's the way to rise through the Nasty party, they expect it, but Bozo and the gang genuinely seem not to have the political nous to live with the people they are up against here, spouting and bullying doesn't seem to work.

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[Bostonhibby]

The headline is a bit of smokescreen, they are not wanting to protect the fish. They will be killed by UK fishermen instead of Johnny foreigners.Hopefully we won't have to send any aircraft carriers in.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/829042/Royal-Navy-aircraft-carrier-rely-French-protection-war-Falklands/amp

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[HappyAsHellas]

I was looking at some stats the other day, the fishing industry is such an inconsequential part of the U.K. economy. Less than a billion £ per year. By value Peterhead dwarfs all the other ports. Places like Grimsby and the south coast and Cornwall really hardly contribute anything. Culturally it’s important, I get that. But the prominence it’s given in the negotiations is out of scale and probably reflects a nationalistic desire to hark back to the 70s and the ‘war’ with the Icelandic trawlers. These days English fishing ports mostly depend on short stay tourism to stay alive.

It was stated on a sea fishing forum that both lawnmowers and pet food are just 2 examples of industries that are financially worth more than fishing. Over 60% of English caught fish are either landed abroad or caught by foreign vessels. We need to be like Iceland and Norway in the respect of banning all trawlers from inshore fishing as we could then be like these countries in having a sustainable industry. Why our fishermen believe they have anything to gain is incredible as they've done nothing short of raping our seas and then selling their quotas to the foreigners they pretend to hate.

[ronaldo7]

Hopefully we won't have to send any aircraft carriers in.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.express.co.uk/news/uk/829042/Royal-Navy-aircraft-carrier-rely-French-protection-war-Falklands/amp

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Not much chance of that.

It's currently tied up in Portsmouth after another flood, this time damaging an engine room.

It was supposed to be over in the states, getting their planes tested, and won't be continuing sea trials until spring next year.

HMS Springaleak

[neil7908]

I'm still desperately hoping for some kind of last minute breakthrough, or for Johnson to be blaming a stupid game of brinkmanship that he ultimately backs down from. But that seems incredibly unlikely.

If we get no deal this country is going to be in trouble. I started looking at migrating over the last few months but I'm now desperate to leave. The vaccine cheered me up but I'm really down again this morning. The sooner Scotland gets out the better.

[hibsbollah]

‘We’ll send in gunboats’ to protect our fishing fleet days the Mail and the Express.
It’s probably a good post No deal economic opportunity to be fair, intercepting refugee dinghys in the summer, attacking the French in the winter :aok:

‘Merkel wants Britain to Walk Over Broken Glass’- The Express.

Our media is no different to the Pyongyang Times really.

[Hibrandenburg]

Grade A Tory Clown

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/131182004_10223687141463190_7611483191266658605_n. jpg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=2&_nc_sid=730e14&_nc_ohc=WT5uV-SBfH8AX907u18&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=c4985c18e655ad096220a20331f1c100&oe=5FF7FCED


can imagine him trying to play the jester

Ursula VDL is a trained gynecologist, I'm certain she's seen Boris for what he is.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Ed Miliband putting in a very impressive performance explaining the absurdity of this on Marr

"No deal is like worrying you might spring a leak in your roof in five years time so choosing to bulldoze your house now."

I've been impressed anytime I've seen him speak recently - especially his performance in the commons where he ripped to shreds the Internal Market Bill.

[Bostonhibby]

Ursula VDL is a trained gynecologist, I'm certain she's seen Boris for what he is.To do that properly would require a proctologist.

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[bigwheel]

‘Merkel wants Britain to Walk Over Broken Glass’- The Express.

Our media is no different to the Pyongyang Times really.

It’s also displayed as if it came from Merkel, when it was a UK government quote....the only real link we see now is that both our Government, and some of our press, are similar to Germany in the 30s.


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[hibsbollah]

It’s also displayed as if it came from Merkel, when it was a UK government quote....the only real link we see now is that both our Government, and some of our press, are similar to Germany in the 30s.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Keith Jackson clearly writing about Brexit these days...Boris in the Kevin Thomson role, Merkel as John Collins

[Colr]

It was stated on a sea fishing forum that both lawnmowers and pet food are just 2 examples of industries that are financially worth more than fishing. Over 60% of English caught fish are either landed abroad or caught by foreign vessels. We need to be like Iceland and Norway in the respect of banning all trawlers from inshore fishing as we could then be like these countries in having a sustainable industry. Why our fishermen believe they have anything to gain is incredible as they've done nothing short of raping our seas and then selling their quotas to the foreigners they pretend to hate.

Add to that, British fishing rights were sold to EU fishermen and if they no longer have access, they may want to take that up legally.

[Billy Whizz]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-55279468

[Scorrie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-55279468

Only got themselves to blame in my view. Cornwall was an Objective 1 area and got lots of EU funding. Voted overwhelmingly for Brexit. Funding now stops. Obviously that wasn’t on the side of a bus eh?

[Billy Whizz]

Only got themselves to blame in my view. Cornwall was an Objective 1 area and got lots of EU funding. Voted overwhelmingly for Brexit. Funding now stops. Obviously that wasn’t on the side of a bus eh?

They’ve all got themselves to blame

[Billy Whizz]

Talks now extended until later in the week

[Moulin Yarns]

Some unknown Scottish Office minister says tariffs would "not necessarily be the end of the world".


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-55293187

[stu in nottingham]

Talks now extended until later in the week

It would have been a major surprise if they hadn't been extended. It means little, maybe a little extra time for Johnson to work out how to save face and protect his own future career.

[Callum_62]

Some unknown Scottish Office minister says tariffs would "not necessarily be the end of the world".


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-55293187David James Duguid is a Scottish Conservative Party politician

All you need to know about his motivations.

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[hibsbollah]

It would have been a major surprise if they hadn't been extended. It means little, maybe a little extra time for Johnson to work out how to save face and protect his own future career.

This last bit could be key. A few extra days for him to continue to do nothing while his advisors do all the real work drawing up a Crap Deal to take the place of No Deal, it’s favourable to the EU but it gets spun as the opposite. He then presents it as a great triumph of Boris the Statesman and the media toe the line obediently on Thursday.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I still can't believe we are doing this, the national equivalent of sticking needles in our eyes, but to leave the EU without a trade deal would be disastrous. However, I'm sure that's what many of the Brexit hardliners wanted all along, despite their claims it would be the 'easiest deal in history' etc. So many lies were told by the TWO Brexit campaigns (giving convenient deniability to both) and the Brexit supporting press, it's astounding the referendum was so close.

[Moulin Yarns]

I still can't believe we are doing this, the national equivalent of sticking needles in our eyes, but to leave the EU without a trade deal would be disastrous. However, I'm sure that's what many of the Brexit hardliners wanted all along, despite their claims it would be the 'easiest deal in history' etc. So many lies were told by the TWO Brexit campaigns (giving convenient deniability to both) and the Brexit supporting press, it's astounding the referendum was so close.

What a lot of Brexit hardliners want is to stop people who are not like them coming to the UK, by which I mean skin colour and language.

[Peevemor]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/reminder-that-britain-handed-the-license-to-monitor-its-waters-to-a-french-firm-last-year/13/12/

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/reminder-that-britain-handed-the-license-to-monitor-its-waters-to-a-french-firm-last-year/13/12/

Shocked. What with that and the 'blue' passports also going to France, it's almost like the UK government wants the UK to lose jobs.

[Hibrandenburg]

What a lot of Brexit hardliners want is to stop people who are not like them coming to the UK, by which I mean skin colour and language.

:agree: And anyone who believes that the main driving force behind Brexit wasn't xenophobia are kidding themselves. Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a xenophobe, but it was xenophobia that won the day.

[Moulin Yarns]

The government is suddenly instructing supermarkets to stockpile. But how, when UK warehouse capacity is more or less maxed out? I warned about this a few weeks ago, but couldn't get anyone in government or the media to take an interest.
https://t.co/riW1vBw2nj

[Hibernia&Alba]

What a lot of Brexit hardliners want is to stop people who are not like them coming to the UK, by which I mean skin colour and language.

Of course, yet the same people who are so opposed to free movement of labour are devoted to free movement of capital. At least the likes of Milton Friedman were consistent in their neoliberal dystopia by supporting free movement of both, yet the right wing Brexiteers want to unleash the revolutionary force of anarcho-capitalism whilst simultaneously preserving a twee and stable 1950s version of British society, which isn't possible. Brexit is a Thatcherite fantasy of the compatibility of rapidly changing free market economics and a solidly unchanging social order of old.

[marinello59]

Of course, yet the same people who are so opposed to free movement of labour are devoted to free movement of capital. At least the likes of Milton Friedman were consistent in their neoliberal dystopia by supporting free movement of both, yet the right wing Brexiteers want to unleash the revolutionary force of anarcho-capitalism whilst simultaneously preserving a twee and stable 1950s version of British society, which isn't possible. Brexit is a Thatcherite fantasy of the compatibility of rapidly changing free market economics and a solidly unchanging social order of old.

It’s a mess but it’s certainly not Thatcherite. It’s naked English Nationalism.

[Glory Lurker]

:agree: And anyone who believes that the main driving force behind Brexit wasn't xenophobia are kidding themselves. Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a xenophobe, but it was xenophobia that won the day.

Xenophobia has driven Euroscepticism since day one. It has been its central tenet. I do get that not everyone who voted leave was a xenophobe but, by god, they lent their vote to the xenophobes very recklessly.

[Hibrandenburg]

Xenophobia has driven Euroscepticism since day one. It has been its central tenet. I do get that not everyone who voted leave was a xenophobe but, by god, they lent their vote to the xenophobes very recklessly.

I'd love to say it was different over here but the right wing rhetoric gets louder by the week. The AfD love a crisis, if Germany is having a hard time, then populism has an easy time, I guess the principle is the same for Farage and his ilk.

[Hibernia&Alba]

It’s a mess but it’s certainly not Thatcherite. It’s naked English Nationalism.

Thatcher would have supported Brexit. She became increasingly Eurosceptic during her premiership, and certainly more so afterwards. She was quintessentially a representation of Tory England and had no understanding or sympathy beyond the home counties. She was at the forefront of pushing the revolutionary change free market capitalism creates whilst trying to maintain some traditional idea of stable (white) post-war social democratic society, which is simply impossible.

[Billy Whizz]

The government is suddenly instructing supermarkets to stockpile. But how, when UK warehouse capacity is more or less maxed out? I warned about this a few weeks ago, but couldn't get anyone in government or the media to take an interest.
https://t.co/riW1vBw2nj

The Food company I do agency work for, brought loads of stock into the U.K. last month and this month
Goods all in external storage. These sort of things don’t help manufacture cash flow

[GlesgaeHibby]

:agree: And anyone who believes that the main driving force behind Brexit wasn't xenophobia are kidding themselves. Not everyone who voted for Brexit is a xenophobe, but it was xenophobia that won the day.

I think it was Will Self who said that not everyone that voted for Brexit was racist, but all racists voted for Brexit.

[lapsedhibee]

I think it was Will Self who said that not everyone that voted for Brexit was racist, but all racists voted for Brexit.

Yep, he said it in front of the inflatable idiot Francois, who said Self should apologise to 17.4 million people, as Francois hadn't understood the difference.

[Keith_M]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-55279468


Overwhelmingly voted for Brexit then act surprised when they lose the handouts.

[Bostonhibby]

Overwhelmingly voted for Brexit then act surprised when they lose the handouts.It's almost as if Cornwall might be better off seeking independence then applying to join the EU?

Maybe the could have some sort of referendum on the matter.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Kato]

Brexit is a Thatcherite fantasy of the compatibility of rapidly changing free market economics and a solidly unchanging social order of old.

I disagree. She always kept the ambitions of the weirdo "little Englander", upper class tories at arms length. She was a shopkeepers daughter and understood free-trade more than most. She might/would have been at odds with the EU's political endeavours but would have fought them from within (or just used the UK's veto, something the Brexit Gang conveniently forgot existed.) She may have been an evil, deranged, sack-of bones, meat-puppet disguised as a human but she wasn't a stupid, evil, deranged, sack-of bones, meat-puppet disguised as a human.

[Kato]

Overwhelmingly voted for Brexit then act surprised when they lose the handouts.

...but we're not allowed to call them idiotic twats who haven't a clue what is good for them or who their real enemy is.

[degenerated]

Yep, he said it in front of the inflatable idiot Francois, who said Self should apologise to 17.4 million people, as Francois hadn't understood the difference.Led to a hilarious staring out contest

https://youtu.be/AOWzwv36GKU

[Lendo]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cornwall-55279468

You reap what you sow. Sadly however these clowns will continue to vote Conservative and against their own self interest.

[Hibernia&Alba]

I disagree. She always kept the ambitions of the weirdo "little Englander", upper class tories at arms length. She was a shopkeepers daughter and understood free-trade more than most. She might/would have been at odds with the EU's political endeavours but would have fought them from within (or just used the UK's veto, something the Brexit Gang conveniently forgot existed.) She may have been an evil, deranged, sack-of bones, meat-puppet disguised as a human but she wasn't a stupid, evil, deranged, sack-of bones, meat-puppet disguised as a human.

I disagree and believe Thatcher would have been entirely behind the Brexit project by 2016. Her parochial nonsense would have ultimately prevailed and taken us out today. It's all part of right wing drift towards the recidivism of a misplaced greatness; an embarrassing machismo lacking subtlety and the need to empathise. It's a bizarre fantasy of the Daily Mail reader which harks back to some mythologised past.

[Hibernia&Alba]

You reap what you sow. Sadly however these clowns will continue to vote Conservative and against their own self interest.

That is how they win: make enough people vote against policies which would help them; appeal to fear and prejudice.

[Scorrie]

That is how they win: make enough people vote against policies which would help them; appeal to fear and prejudice.

Yep and wrap it in the Union / England flag

[Killiehibbie]

Add to that, British fishing rights were sold to EU fishermen and if they no longer have access, they may want to take that up legally.

Just heard one on TV saying they need to take it all back and sell the catch to the 7 billion fish eating people in Asia

[hibsbollah]

fish eating people in Asia

I think we can all agree this is a disturbing development.

[Killiehibbie]

I think we can all agree this is a disturbing development.

I thought that was a more South American thing

[Bostonhibby]

I think we can all agree this is a disturbing development.Goddam sharks, the Daily Mail warned us all about this when they exclusively revealed to their readers that Jeremy Corbyn was planning to import people eating fish from China if they didn't vote for Brexit and a Boris Johnson led government.

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[Future17]

I think we can all agree this is a disturbing development.

Not at all. It's nature's way of controlling population growth.

[hibsbollah]

Not at all. It's nature's way of controlling population growth.

There’s always one :rolleyes: Taking the opposite view just for the halibut.

[Future17]

There’s always one :rolleyes: Taking the opposite view just for the halibut.

Admittedly, it wasn't my plaice to say it.

[Hibrandenburg]

Admittedly, it wasn't my plaice to say it.

I need to mullet over.