Brexit - What Now.

[grunt]

Interesting opinion piece for the Guardian on this subject:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/24/eu-workers-rights-capital-multinationals
Thanks, that is interesting. Shows that my perceived wisdom is not necessarily so wise. However, I'm not sure I agree with the article's conclusion. I just can't see Labour winning anything just now.

[Moulin Yarns]

It is not really valid when comparing structures that for various reasons are remarkably different though. is it?

I get that it is just politics and everyone does it, but it feels patronising when it is used to mask the fact that they are consistently failing to meet their own legally-binding targets.

As I said before, it is a bit like Colin Calderwood saying “Hey, I was better then Terry Butcher”.

Are you really saying that comparisons, like those I have posted in graph form above about holiday entitlement, paternal leave and minimum pay in other countries shouldn't be used because these countries have different political and fiscal structures.

How else can we look afar and say that works, we should aim to emulate what is good and works elsewhere.

[JeMeSouviens]

Are you really saying that comparisons, like those I have posted in graph form above about holiday entitlement, paternal leave and minimum pay in other countries shouldn't be used because these countries have different political and fiscal structures.

How else can we look afar and say that works, we should aim to emulate what is good and works elsewhere.

No, he's on about the comparison between Scotland's NHS and England's.

[Moulin Yarns]

No, he's on about the comparison between Scotland's NHS and England's.

I know that's what MA was responding to, but I would imagine it applies across the board, how else are comparisons made.

[Mibbes Aye]

Are you really saying that comparisons, like those I have posted in graph form above about holiday entitlement, paternal leave and minimum pay in other countries shouldn't be used because these countries have different political and fiscal structures.

How else can we look afar and say that works, we should aim to emulate what is good and works elsewhere.

No I wasn’t.

This was in relation to an earlier discussion about performance targets in the health system. And I had already acknowledged it should be on a different thread. And I was merely replying to someone else.

To be honest I haven’t had the time yet to read the posts you are referring to, but I will.

But I know that you said you used to work for a local authority - P&K I am guessing - so you will know fine well the dangers of comparisons. Being fifth out of 32 or being 29th out of 32 sounds very different but if everyone is pretty much much of a muchness then 29th isn’t particularly alarming. And if the ‘top’ four are miles ahead and the remaining 28 are tanking, then 5th is no great shakes.

[Moulin Yarns]

No I wasn’t.

This was in relation to an earlier discussion about performance targets in the health system. And I had already acknowledged it should be on a different thread. And I was merely replying to someone else.

To be honest I haven’t had the time yet to read the posts you are referring to, but I will.

But I know that you said you used to work for a local authority - P&K I am guessing - so you will know fine well the dangers of comparisons. Being fifth out of 32 or being 29th out of 32 sounds very different but if everyone is pretty much much of a muchness then 29th isn’t particularly alarming. And if the ‘top’ four are miles ahead and the remaining 28 are tanking, then 5th is no great shakes.

Now you're talking about the SPFL 😉

[Mibbes Aye]

Now you're talking about the SPFL 😉

:greengrin

[Cataplana]

Now you're talking about the SPFL 😉

Genuine question, do you use the winking smiley so often because you are cracking ironic jokes, or do you have a dodgy eye?

There's a pint resting on your answer. :wink:

[Moulin Yarns]

Genuine question, do you use the winking smiley so often because you are cracking ironic jokes, or do you have a dodgy eye?

There's a pint resting on your answer. :wink:

That was definitely irony 🤔

Enjoy the pint. 🍻

[Hibrandenburg]

Paternity leave is unregulated in the EU and benefits vary widely (2016)



https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2016/02/18/13/Paternity-Leave.jpeg
It is regulated in Germany so I'm surprised it's not on that graph. Here both parents can take up to 14 months divided between them but with a maximum of 12 months for any one parent. I took 2 months back in 2011 and it's not changed since then.

I also work for an airline that has bases in the UK, France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Spain and Portugal and can confirm that the T&Cs including pay are the worst in the UK.

[Cataplana]

That was definitely irony 🤔

Enjoy the pint. 🍻

😁

[lapsedhibee]

Interesting opinion piece for the Guardian on this subject:

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/24/eu-workers-rights-capital-multinationals

Yep, Thatch loved certain aspects of the EU.


It is not really valid when comparing structures that for various reasons are remarkably different though. is it?

I get that it is just politics and everyone does it, but it feels patronising when it is used to mask the fact that they are consistently failing to meet their own legally-binding targets.

As I said before, it is a bit like Colin Calderwood saying “Hey, I was better then Terry Butcher”.

Agree whitabootery is tiresome in all its forms.

[Hibrandenburg]

Just been reading the matchday thread so I've come back here to cheer myself up.

[CloudSquall]

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-10-26/snp-and-lib-dems-unite-to-force-december-general-election-writes-robert-peston/

Looks like the Lib Dems and SNP are going to try to force an election early December and Boris may back the vote...

[Callum_62]

https://www.itv.com/news/2019-10-26/snp-and-lib-dems-unite-to-force-december-general-election-writes-robert-peston/

Looks like the Lib Dems and SNP are going to try to force an election early December and Boris may back the vote...Don't get why they would do this. I understand the SNP will probably clean up in Scotland but why are the libs wanting an election?

Do they believe the can turn around the polls?

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[CloudSquall]

Don't get why they would do this. I understand the SNP will probably clean up in Scotland but why are the libs wanting an election?

Do they believe the can turn around the polls?

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Angus MacNeil (SNP MP Western Isles) said he "won't be bounced into this" , will be interesting to see how this all plays out.

Like you say I'd expect the SNP to near enough clean up shop in Scotland, Lib Dems would need to be confident of picking up enough seats down south amongst remainers especially in Tory seats, for now I can't really see it especially with them and Labour splitting the remain vote.

[Jack Hackett]

Just been reading the matchday thread so I've come back here to cheer myself up.

:top marks


You're on a roll today bud :aok:

[Ozyhibby]

Don't get why they would do this. I understand the SNP will probably clean up in Scotland but why are the libs wanting an election?

Do they believe the can turn around the polls?

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Lib Dem’s due to pick up seats no matter what. Somebody has to make a move at some point, can’t keep going like this forever just because Labour insist on sticking with the unelectable Corbyn.


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[Hibrandenburg]

:top marks


You're on a roll today bud :aok:

Thanks JH, don't know what's come over me. :greengrin

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Got to love a bit of nationalism

https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-bring-back-national-service-but-lets-do-it-differently-11846370

And where do these polls actually happen?? The most Tory of tory counties?
https://news.sky.com/story/tories-surge-to-16-point-lead-over-labour-poll-11846200

[marinello59]

Don't get why they would do this. I understand the SNP will probably clean up in Scotland but why are the libs wanting an election?

Do they believe the can turn around the polls?

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The SNP have been signalling they would do this for the past week. Their commitment to a second Brexit referendum has been quietly dropped in favour of gaining seats in Scotland. It’s risky but we could see a LibDem/SNP/Labour coalition in power but only if they can ensure Brexit has not been passed before we go to the Polls.

[Callum_62]

Got to love a bit of nationalism

https://news.sky.com/story/sky-views-bring-back-national-service-but-lets-do-it-differently-11846370

[/url]

Get that right to ****.

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[Ozyhibby]

The SNP have been signalling they would do this for the past week. Their commitment to a second Brexit referendum has been quietly dropped in favour of gaining seats in Scotland. It’s risky but we could see a LibDem/SNP/Labour coalition in power but only if they can ensure Brexit has not been passed before we go to the Polls.

I would not say it has been dropped, just a case of it not being deliverable. The numbers just aren’t there.
Something needs to change and if we have an election and the Tories (most likely) win then it won’t be the fault of the SNP or the Lib Dem’s.
The Labour Party are the problem here.


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[marinello59]

I would not say it has been dropped, just a case of it not being deliverable. The numbers just aren’t there.
Something needs to change and if we have an election and the Tories (most likely) win then it won’t be the fault of the SNP or the Lib Dem’s.
The Labour Party are the problem here.


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I agree about the Labour Party. I also think the SNP are doing the right thing in teaming up with the LibDems to force the issue.

[CloudSquall]

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1188392480707956736

Some explanation from Sturgeon on the SNP's standpoint, personally I can see both sides of the argument but I'm leaning towards wanting an election soon, nothing is possible at this point with the way parliament is numbered.

If Labour were in any way decent opposition they would be chomping at the bit for an election and sweeping the board down south given how much of a **** show Brexit has been so far.

In reality though..

[G B Young]

https://twitter.com/NicolaSturgeon/status/1188392480707956736

Some explanation from Sturgeon on the SNP's standpoint, personally I can see both sides of the argument but I'm leaning towards wanting an election soon, nothing is possible at this point with the way parliament is numbered.

If Labour were in any way decent opposition they would be chomping at the bit for an election and sweeping the board down south given how much of a **** show Brexit has been so far.

In reality though..

According to the latest IPSOS Mori poll: "Corbyn is less popular than Boris Johnson among both men and women, in every socioeconomic category, whether richer or poorer, in London and Scotland as well as the Midlands and Wales and, remarkably, in every age group. Perhaps it’s no surprise that the over-65s prefer Johnson to Corbyn by 62% to 8%, but it’s arresting that even among the youngest voters, aged 18 to 24, those once seen as the Labour leader’s base, Corbyn is less popular than the prime minister. The Labour leader has a net satisfaction rating of -60, with just 16% of voters pleased with him and 76% unhappy. That means Mr Corbyn is even more unpopular than former Labour boss Michael Foot, who had an approval score of -56 in 1982, the year before he was routed by Margaret Thatcher in a general election. When Tony Blair and David Cameron assumed office from opposition both had positive net satisfaction scores. It is truly extraordinary that the party of opposition is not 20 points ahead of a government in office for nine years."

[Callum_62]

According to the latest IPSOS Mori poll: "Corbyn is less popular than Boris Johnson among both men and women, in every socioeconomic category, whether richer or poorer, in London and Scotland as well as the Midlands and Wales and, remarkably, in every age group. Perhaps it’s no surprise that the over-65s prefer Johnson to Corbyn by 62% to 8%, but it’s arresting that even among the youngest voters, aged 18 to 24, those once seen as the Labour leader’s base, Corbyn is less popular than the prime minister. The Labour leader has a net satisfaction rating of -60, with just 16% of voters pleased with him and 76% unhappy. That means Mr Corbyn is even more unpopular than former Labour boss Michael Foot, who had an approval score of -56 in 1982, the year before he was routed by Margaret Thatcher in a general election. When Tony Blair and David Cameron assumed office from opposition both had positive net satisfaction scores. It is truly extraordinary that the party of opposition is not 20 points ahead of a government in office for nine years."It's interesting but he came pretty close to an upset in 2017, surely he couldn't have dropped that much in popularity. I personally wish Labour would change leader, they have a few people on there books that would be much more popular to the whole of the UK than Corbyn is

It looks like SNP might take 10 or so seats from the tories, surley the libs will take some in England too. I'd hope it would be closer come the end of the campaign than being forcasted

One thing Johnson really struggles with is scrutiny - 6 weeks of an election campaign could really put the squeeze on

Labour will need an excellent campaign though, which they had last time


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[Callum_62]

Now who's running scared?

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1188404928022233088?s=19

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[Cataplana]

It's interesting but he came pretty close to an upset in 2017, surely he couldn't have dropped that much in popularity. I personally wish Labour would change leader, they have a few people on there books that would be much more popular to the whole of the UK than Corbyn is

It looks like SNP might take 10 or so seats from the tories, surley the libs will take some in England too. I'd hope it would be closer come the end of the campaign than being forcasted

One thing Johnson really struggles with is scrutiny - 6 weeks of an election campaign could really put the squeeze on

Labour will need an excellent campaign though, which they had last time


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I just can't see Boris keeping it together in an election campaign.

[The Harp Awakes]

Now who's running scared?

https://twitter.com/lewis_goodall/status/1188404928022233088?s=19

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They're not as gung ho about an election now as they have failed fo deliver Brexit by 31/10 despite all Boris' bluster. Farage will rip the **** out of the Tories in an election campaign for failing and will split the Tory vote big time. The LibDems would be the main beneficiaries in the big English cities particularly. The LibDems and the SNP could have a very strong hand in the next parliament.

[Mibbes Aye]

It's interesting but he came pretty close to an upset in 2017, surely he couldn't have dropped that much in popularity. I personally wish Labour would change leader, they have a few people on there books that would be much more popular to the whole of the UK than Corbyn is

It looks like SNP might take 10 or so seats from the tories, surley the libs will take some in England too. I'd hope it would be closer come the end of the campaign than being forcasted

One thing Johnson really struggles with is scrutiny - 6 weeks of an election campaign could really put the squeeze on

Labour will need an excellent campaign though, which they had last time


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He came nowhere near close to an upset.

He had the biggest shift in the popular vote and the biggest absolute vote share for Labour in a long, long time. The only thing that came close was Blair in 1997 and 2001.

Blair turned that into majorities of over 150. Corbyn ended up fifty seats behind the Tories.

It is all very well getting every twenty year old in Islington to vote for you but it doesn’t translate into power.

[Callum_62]

He came nowhere near close to an upset.

He had the biggest shift in the popular vote and the biggest absolute vote share for Labour in a long, long time. The only thing that came close was Blair in 1997 and 2001.

Blair turned that into majorities of over 150. Corbyn ended up fifty seats behind the Tories.

It is all very well getting every twenty year old in Islington to vote for you but it doesn’t translate into power.They gained 30 seats with a 9.6% swing

They came far far closer than anyone predicted

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[Mibbes Aye]

They gained 30 seats with a 9.6% swing

They came far far closer than anyone predicted

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And abjectly failed., as per the comparison with Tony Blair. Seven years into an austerity government and the best they could do was finish fifty-odd seats behind the Tories?

Swing voters and natural Labour voters who had been turned off by Militant etc, came flooding back under Smith and then Blair.

They are going to the Lib Dems because of Corbyn.

Which I think was the latter point you made - Labour need a leader who doesn’t alienate people (and who doesn't have swivel head loons in the background, manipulating him and the party machinery).

[Ozyhibby]

Lib Dem’s weren’t a force in 2017 but have rehabilitated themselves now. People in England appalled at the thought of Corbyn now have somewhere to go. Labour will suffer.


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[Fife-Hibee]

Lib Dem’s weren’t a force in 2017 but have rehabilitated themselves now. People in England appalled at the thought of Corbyn now have somewhere to go. Labour will suffer.


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Rehabilitated :greengrin They do that before every election.

[Hibbyradge]

Exclusive: Brexit: EU prepares to grant UK three-month extension

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/27/brexit-eu-prepares-grant-uk-three-month-extension?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Copy_to_clipboard

[Callum_62]

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/27/peoples-vote-campaign-civil-war-struggle-strategy-splinter-group?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true

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[Frankhfc]

https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2019/oct/27/peoples-vote-campaign-civil-war-struggle-strategy-splinter-group?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other&__twitter_impression=true

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Blair, Campbell and Mandelson are to blame for the behind the scenes politicking. They've been attempting to underhandly oust Roland Rudd for some time now.

[marinello59]

Rehabilitated :greengrin They do that before every election.

With Sturgeon now standing shoulder to shoulder with Swinson to get an election and dismiss the threat of No Deal are you now accusing her of just playing politics as well?

[Peevemor]

EU agree extension to 31 January.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50205603

[Ozyhibby]

EU agree extension to 31 January.

https://www.bbc.com/news/uk-politics-50205603

Needs to be action now. Every major party has to move towards something. There needs to be either a GE or second vote agreed before the end of the week. This needs to be finished soon whatever way it goes.


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[JeMeSouviens]

Hopefully Johnson picking out a suitable ditch as we speak.

[JeMeSouviens]

Needs to be action now. Every major party has to move towards something. There needs to be either a GE or second vote agreed before the end of the week. This needs to be finished soon whatever way it goes.


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Or new hung parliament and off we go again ...

[Ozyhibby]

Or new hung parliament and off we go again ...

That probably results in a 2nd ref.


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[Jack]

Why, on the face of it, are the non Tory parties not just going for a second referendum?

Everyone is already saying it's going to be the most single issue GE there's ever been.

The likelihood is Brexit would be dead in the water. No more hung stuff with the intransigence lying Torys failing miserably to force worse and worse deals though a sceptical parliament.

As a result the Torys would implode, other parties pick up the pieces.

[Ozyhibby]

Why, on the face of it, are the non Tory parties not just going for a second referendum?

Everyone is already saying it's going to be the most single issue GE there's ever been.

The likelihood is Brexit would be dead in the water. No more hung stuff with the intransigence lying Torys failing miserably to force worse and worse deals though a sceptical parliament.

As a result the Torys would implode, other parties pick up the pieces.

Labour are split.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/brexit_sham/status/1188460382966423552?s=21
They should put Blair in charge of Remain campaign if there is a second ref.

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[Hibbyradge]

https://twitter.com/brexit_sham/status/1188460382966423552?s=21
They should put Blair in charge of Remain campaign if there is a second ref.

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But Iraq ...

[Ozyhibby]

But Iraq ...

Not in the EU although I’m sure the leave campaign will try convince us it’s just about to join.[emoji6]


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[Bristolhibby]

Or new hung parliament and off we go again ...

Beat me to it. An election will sort **** all. Unless the Tories romp home. Then it’s Johnston’s deal at best, pending crashing out at a the end of the years grace period.

J

[JeMeSouviens]

Why, on the face of it, are the non Tory parties not just going for a second referendum?

Everyone is already saying it's going to be the most single issue GE there's ever been.

The likelihood is Brexit would be dead in the water. No more hung stuff with the intransigence lying Torys failing miserably to force worse and worse deals though a sceptical parliament.

As a result the Torys would implode, other parties pick up the pieces.

Because there are about 30-40 Labour MPs who are either Brexiters or prioritise hanging on to their own seats over a ref#2.

[Mibbes Aye]

Because there are about 30-40 Labour MPs who are either Brexiters or prioritise hanging on to their own seats over a ref#2.

Yep. Plus the likes of Milne, a castback to the Bennite days , pulling Corbyn’s strings.

[Slavers]

Because there are about 30-40 Labour MPs who are either Brexiters or prioritise hanging on to their own seats over a ref#2.

Is this the same as representing their constituency, or would you rather they ignored the majority of voters in their constituency and pushed for a ref2?

[Mibbes Aye]

Is this the same as representing their constituency, or would you rather they ignored the majority of voters in their constituency and pushed for a ref2?




I understand your point but it is an established principle in British parliamentary democracy that MPs are not there to slavishly follow the majority view of their constituents - if that was the case then they would have to conduct mini-referenda before every vote.

[JeMeSouviens]

Is this the same as representing their constituency, or would you rather they ignored the majority of voters in their constituency and pushed for a ref2?




Yes. An MP's job is to do what they believe is best for their constituents which is not necessarily the same thing as what the majority of their constituents want. Labour's manifesto in 2017 said they would respect ref#1 but negotiate a soft Brexit and explicitly ruled out no deal. They are perfectly within their rights to reject the Tories' hard Brexit which still carries a hidden no-deal threat. And if a ref#2 is the best way to achieve that then so be it.

[Fife-Hibee]

With Sturgeon now standing shoulder to shoulder with Swinson to get an election and dismiss the threat of No Deal are you now accusing her of just playing politics as well?

The SNP want a tory brexit just as much as Jo Swinson. Just for different reasons. A general election will hand it to them. Both Swinson and our First Minister know this.

[Fife-Hibee]

Why, on the face of it, are the non Tory parties not just going for a second referendum?

That's what Labour are advocating and it makes the most sense for those who are serious about keeping the UK in the EU. A general election = tory brexit.

[Ozyhibby]

That's what Labour are advocating and it makes the most sense for those who are serious about keeping the UK in the EU. A general election = tory brexit.

If a 2nd ref was put to a vote in parliament tomorrow then the SNP and Lib Dem’s would all vote for it. Could Labour say the same?


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[Fife-Hibee]

If a 2nd ref was put to a vote in parliament tomorrow then the SNP and Lib Dem’s would all vote for it. Could Labour say the same?

Of course they would vote for it. They have to be seen as opposing Brexit and even although they'd be slating those Labour MPs who vote it down. They'd secretly be very relieved that they did.

Politics isn't always what it seems on the surface. But so few people read between the lines.

[Mibbes Aye]

Of course they would vote for it. They have to be seen as opposing Brexit and even although they'd be slating those Labour MPs who vote it down. They'd secretly be very relieved that they did.

Politics isn't always what it seems on the surface. But so few people read between the lines.

There are more than a few Labour MPs who would vote against a second referendum. They don’t have to be seen as opposing it, they are either against it like Hoey and Stringer, or fear deselection or being voted out like Flint.

[Fife-Hibee]

There are more than a few Labour MPs who would vote against a second referendum. They don’t have to be seen as opposing it, they are either against it like Hoey and Stringer, or fear deselection or being voted out like Flint.

I'm not talking about Labour. I'm talking about SNP and Lib Dem MPs voting in favour of it, safe in the knowledge that it would never pass thanks to Labour MPs who would vote it down.

MPs can give the impression that they support something by voting in favour of it, while knowing at the same time that there is no risk of the vote ever actually passing.

[marinello59]

The SNP want a tory brexit just as much as Jo Swinson. Just for different reasons. A general election will hand it to them. Both Swinson and our First Minister know this.

So that's a Yes then, both women are liars in your opinion.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm not talking about Labour. I'm talking about SNP and Lib Dem MPs voting in favour of it, safe in the knowledge that it would never pass thanks to Labour MPs who would vote it down.

MPs can give the impression that they support something by voting in favour of it, while knowing at the same time that there is no risk of the vote ever actually passing.

Like Jeremy Corbyn saying he’s a remainer?


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[marinello59]

If a 2nd ref was put to a vote in parliament tomorrow then the SNP and Lib Dem’s would all vote for it. Could Labour say the same?


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No. That's why the Lib Dems and the SNP have had to go down a different path, the numbers simply aren't there to get one.

[Fife-Hibee]

So that's a Yes then, both women are liars in your opinion.

Politicians are liars. It isn't gender specific. Only a sexist would think that gender makes a difference when it comes to honesty. Right?

[Fife-Hibee]

Like Jeremy Corbyn saying he’s a remainer?

I don't think Jeremy Corbyn has ever said he's a remainer. But what a politician says or doesn't say isn't important. It's what they commit to on paper and Labour are commited to giving the electorate a choice between a tory deal and remain. Which is surely a better option for remainers than the Lib Dem proposal of handing the tories a massive majority in a general election?

[Callum_62]

I don't think Jeremy Corbyn has ever said he's a remainer. But what a politician says or doesn't say isn't important. It's what they commit to on paper and Labour are commited to giving the electorate a choice between a tory deal and remain. Which is surely a better option for remainers than the Lib Dem proposal of handing the tories a massive majority in a general election?Iib dem and now SNP no?

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[Ozyhibby]

I don't think Jeremy Corbyn has ever said he's a remainer. But what a politician says or doesn't say isn't important. It's what they commit to on paper and Labour are commited to giving the electorate a choice between a tory deal and remain. Which is surely a better option for remainers than the Lib Dem proposal of handing the tories a massive majority in a general election?

Lib Dem’s and SNP likely to increase their vote and number of MP’s in GE. Not sure they can be blamed if the Tories win. I would think that would be down to the parties who lose seats.[emoji23]


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[Fife-Hibee]

Iib dem and now SNP no?

Did you read any of my previous posts? The SNP want a tory majority and hard brexit "forced upon Scotland". It's the best possible outcome for the parties main agenda.


Lib Dem’s and SNP likely to increase their vote and number of MP’s in GE. Not sure they can be blamed if the Tories win. I would think that would be down to the parties who lose seats.[emoji23]

So you admit that they're putting their party before the UK?

I'm perfectly fine with it. There will however be a lot of disappointed people who genuinely believed the Lib Dems were anti-brexit.

[marinello59]

Politicians are liars. It isn't gender specific. Only a sexist would think that gender makes a difference when it comes to honesty. Right?

Eh? Another confusing comment from you. Would you care to expand on that?

[Ozyhibby]

Did you read any of my previous posts? The SNP want a tory majority and hard brexit "forced upon Scotland". It's the best possible outcome for the parties main agenda.



So you admit that they're putting their party before the UK?

I'm perfectly fine with it. There will however be a lot of disappointed people who genuinely believed the Lib Dems were anti-brexit.

What else can they do? There needs to be movement now. We can’t stay like this forever. Labour won’t back a 2nd referendum so it has to be a GE.


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[Fife-Hibee]

Eh? Another confusing comment from you. Would you care to expand on that?

Why did you feel the need to point out that both politicians are women. As if their gender had any bearing on what i'm saying?

[Slavers]

Yes. An MP's job is to do what they believe is best for their constituents which is not necessarily the same thing as what the majority of their constituents want. Labour's manifesto in 2017 said they would respect ref#1 but negotiate a soft Brexit and explicitly ruled out no deal. They are perfectly within their rights to reject the Tories' hard Brexit which still carries a hidden no-deal threat. And if a ref#2 is the best way to achieve that then so be it.

If people elect MP's to represent their views, then why bother if they will be ignored because the MP's serve their own interests before their constituents.

If this is the kind of politics that remoaners want then surely they'd be better proposing a dictatorship, then the people can just be ignored on every decision because the political elites know best.

[Fife-Hibee]

What else can they do? There needs to be movement now. We can’t stay like this forever. Labour won’t back a 2nd referendum so it has to be a GE.

Labour have already commited themselves to a peoples vote between a tory deal and remain. That can't however happen with constant delays over parliaments approval of the deal itself.

Labour obviously won't back a 2nd referendum. It will end badly for them. The lib dems will gain seats. But where brexit is concerned, It is handing it on a plate to the tories with no option of a peoples vote.

A general election is completely illogical if you're serious about keeping the UK in the EU. The FPTP system will ensure it ends badly for remain supporters, even if they're in a majority now.

[marinello59]

Why did you feel the need to point out that both politicians are women. As if their gender had any bearing on what i'm saying?

Wow. It doesn't and if you've ever read my posts on the subject or knew me you will know that I feel very strongly about equality and the way that women politicians are judged differently. So you can withdraw the insinuation that I was being sexist there. Cheers.

[Ozyhibby]

Labour have already commited themselves to a peoples vote between a tory deal and remain. That can't however happen with constant delays over parliaments approval of the deal itself.

Labour obviously won't back a 2nd referendum. It will end badly for them. The lib dems will gain seats. But where brexit is concerned, It is handing it on a plate to the tories with no option of a peoples vote.

A general election is completely illogical if you're serious about keeping the UK in the EU. The FPTP system will ensure it ends badly for remain supporters, even if they're in a majority now.

Labour has no plan for how we get to a 2nd ref, it’s pie in the sky wishful thinking.


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[Fife-Hibee]

Wow. It doesn't and if you've ever read my posts on the subject or knew me you will know that I feel very strongly about equality and the way that women politicians are judged differently. So you can withdraw the insinuation that I was being sexist there. Cheers.

No. I think you know full well what you were doing and it's not for the first time either. You've already accused me of having "problems" with female politicians. When I simply point out that they're no more honest than male politicians.

You seem to be under the impression that because these politicians are women, we should hang on their every word. Well I humbly disagree.

[JeMeSouviens]

If people elect MP's to represent their views, then why bother if they will be ignored because the MP's serve their own interests before their constituents.

If this is the kind of politics that remoaners want then surely they'd be better proposing a dictatorship, then the people can just be ignored on every decision because the political elites know best.

They elect MPs to represent their interests, not represent their views. An MP can't (and shouldn't try to) second guess their constituents views on everything. They should do what they genuinely think is best and if their constituents don't like it, then they have the chance to vote them out at the next election.

Anyway, even on Brexit, many Leave constituencies from 2016 will be Remain now. In your model, how does an MP decide when to change their vote?

[marinello59]

No. I think you know full well what you were doing and it's not for the first time either. You've already accused me of having "problems" with female politicians. When I simply point out that they're no more honest than male politicians.

You seem to be under the impression that because these politicians are women, we should hang on their every word. Well I humbly disagree.

Time for you to check your facts. Again. . It wasn't me that accused you of having a problem with women politicians. Feel free to apologise for that as well.

[Fife-Hibee]

Time for you to check your facts. Again. . It wasn't me that accused you of having a problem with women politicians. Feel free to apologise for that as well.

You're an admin are you not? You've never pulled anybody else up for those unfounded accusations. Where's my apology?

[Fife-Hibee]

Labour has no plan for how we get to a 2nd ref, it’s pie in the sky wishful thinking.

Labours plan was a choice between a tory deal and remain. But that option is off the table, because parliament won't give approval to the tory deal. So that leaves a general election the only option available. Which is bad news for remainers. Because once that is out of the way, the tories will have more than enough to push their own version of brexit through without the need to include a peoples vote option.

[marinello59]

You're an admin are you not? You've never pulled anybody else up for those unfounded accusations. Where's my apology?

If you can't defend yourself on a political discussion forum maybe you shouldn't be on it. I assume you did respond to whoever it was that made that remark? Did you report it?
Remember this is primarily a football forum but if you have genuine concerns about any post directed towards you then please report it and as always we would take appropriate action.

[RyeSloan]

Labours plan was a choice between a tory deal and remain. But that option is off the table, because parliament won't give approval to the tory deal. So that leaves a general election the only option available. Which is bad news for remainers. Because once that is out of the way, the tories will have more than enough to push their own version of brexit through without the need to include a peoples vote option.

Your tying yourself in knots here.

What are you proposing should be done and by who?

As so far, from what I can make out, you have slated the Lib Dem (and now SNP) approach, condemned the Tories route and confirmed the Labour plan is dead. ..

[Fife-Hibee]

Your tying yourself in knots here.

What are you proposing should be done and by who?

As so far, from what I can make out, you have slated the Lib Dem (and now SNP) approach, condemned the Tories route and confirmed the Labour plan is dead. ..

No i'm not, i'm simply pointing out the obvious. The only way a peoples vote could have happened was after the approval of a tory deal in parliament. Which of course never happened.

People are whinging about Labours refusal to back a general election. If anything, it's leavers who should be shouting the loudest about Labours refusal to back one, not remainers. A general election is bad news for remainers and great news for leavers.

[Mibbes Aye]

You're an admin are you not? You've never pulled anybody else up for those unfounded accusations. Where's my apology?

It wasn’t Marinello59 who accused you of having an issue with female politicians, I think it was me.

The accusation still stands.

[marinello59]

Blackford and Swinson have both given excellent speeches tonight leaving Johnson and Corbyn looking decidedly shifty.

[Callum_62]

Dec12 election didn't get the 2/3 needed
Pm to try again tomorrow

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[Jack]

Blackford and Swinson have both given excellent speeches tonight leaving Johnson and Corbyn looking decidedly shifty.

They are decidedly shifty. Or at least the folk with their hands up their backs making them work are.

[RyeSloan]

Dec12 election didn't get the 2/3 needed
Pm to try again tomorrow

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This is getting off the scale ridiculous...reading the report from the BBC just made me shake my head and wonder if any of them have any idea how bloody stupid these endless politicking shenanigans are making them look?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50213548


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[CloudSquall]

Torie's won't agree to an election on the 9th of December, Swinson's ruled out backing an election on the 12th, 3 'kin day difference...

[Callum_62]

Torie's won't agree to an election on the 9th of December, Swinson's ruled out backing an election on the 12th, 3 'kin day difference...Why are the Govt against the 9th?

And opp against the 12th?

Must be a reason

Edit - ah, ok

"The Lib Dems and SNP want Monday, 9 December, which they say will prevent any chance of the prime minister's Brexit deal being approved before Parliament is dissolved.

Parliament has to be dissolved a minimum of 25 working days before the date of an election to allow sufficient preparations to take place."


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[Jim44]

Listening to a Dispatches programme just now about the implications for the NHS with a trade deal with the Trump government. Depressing.

[CloudSquall]

Why are the Govt against the 9th?

And opp against the 12th?

Must be a reason

Edit - ah, ok

"The Lib Dems and SNP want Monday, 9 December, which they say will prevent any chance of the prime minister's Brexit deal being approved before Parliament is dissolved.

Parliament has to be dissolved a minimum of 25 working days before the date of an election to allow sufficient preparations to take place."


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..and the government won't agree to the 9th due to the below,

""Govt's justification for not agreeing the Lib Dems date of 9th is that they are not sure they can get the bill through in time, and Northern Ireland Budget Bill has to be passed before Parliament can be dissolved""

[Ozyhibby]

Listening to a Dispatches programme just now about the implications for the NHS with a trade deal with the Trump government. Depressing.

If Labour can make the election about this then they have a chance. Play the fear card. Maybe put it on a bus.[emoji6]


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[Fuzzywuzzy]

Listening to a Dispatches programme just now about the implications for the NHS with a trade deal with the Trump government. Depressing.

That was actually depressing. You kind of wonder what kind of lock in would be involved that the NHS can't get drugs from other countries

[mjhibby]

..and the government won't agree to the 9th due to the below,

""Govt's justification for not agreeing the Lib Dems date of 9th is that they are not sure they can get the bill through in time, and Northern Ireland Budget Bill has to be passed before Parliament can be dissolved""

Johnson isnt bringing the bill back. It's straight to an election. Dec 9 not great but as long as brexit isn't sorted I can't see Johnson winning.

[Ozyhibby]

Johnson isnt bringing the bill back. It's straight to an election. Dec 9 not great but as long as brexit isn't sorted I can't see Johnson winning.

He’s still very much the favourite right now. Labour will need to up their game substantially and there to be a massive tactical voting movement to have any chance of even getting to a hung parliament.


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[CloudSquall]

"No 10 sources" are saying the Goverment will accept the SNP/Lib Dem amendent to allow for an election but on the 11th of December instead of the 9th.

[SHODAN]

"No 10 sources" are saying the Goverment will accept the SNP/Lib Dem amendent to allow for an election on the 11th of December.

A compromise. Amazing.

Imagine if elections actually returned MPs proportional to the percentage of votes actually cast for them?

[Ozyhibby]

"No 10 sources" are saying the Goverment will accept the SNP/Lib Dem amendent to allow for an election but on the 11th of December instead of the 9th.

Labour will end up abstaining. They are going into an election campaign and nobody has the first idea what they stand for.


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[Frankhfc]

Labour will end up abstaining. They are going into an election campaign and nobody has the first idea what they stand for.


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Couldn't agree more with you on this point. Some think a change of leader would reinvigorate the party however it wouldn't solve its core systemic crisis of being in the grip of the extreme hard left Momentum. A change of leader would merely paper over the much deeper fault lines. Its in complete chaos.

[Cataplana]

Couldn't agree more with you on this point. Some think a change of leader would reinvigorate the party however it wouldn't solve its core systemic crisis of being in the grip of the extreme hard left Momentum. A change of leader would merely paper over the much deeper fault lines. Its in complete chaos.

When the country is in the grip of the hard right, that is not necessarily a bad thing. People need to face up to the damage unfettered capitalism is doing.

[Frankhfc]

When the country is in the grip of the hard right, that is not necessarily a bad thing. People need to face up to the damage unfettered capitalism is doing.

You're meandering off the subject I was commenting on. Labour are in deep crisis and will haemorrhage yet further seats at the forthcoming elections because there is a great deal of infighting and turbulence within the party between Momentum and Blairites in a battle for power and setting of policies.

[CloudSquall]

Rumours circulating on Twitter now that Labour will actually whip to vote FOR the election in December (McDonnell backing Corbyn to vote for it, chief whip trying to push back on it though).

Buckle up boys :greengrin

[Cataplana]

You're meandering off the subject I was commenting on. Labour are in deep crisis and will haemorrhage yet further seats at the forthcoming elections because there is a great deal of infighting and turbulence within the party between Momentum and Blairites in a battle for power and setting of policies.

Fair enough, can't disagree with your assessment.

[CloudSquall]

Corbyn confirmed he will back an election.

HERE WE, HERE WE, HERE WE ***** GO:flag::greengrin

[SHODAN]

You're meandering off the subject I was commenting on. Labour are in deep crisis and will haemorrhage yet further seats at the forthcoming elections because there is a great deal of infighting and turbulence within the party between Momentum and Blairites in a battle for power and setting of policies.

If the Blairites get back in power after we leave then there's no point. Someone like Cooper will win a majority in five years but they'll do literally nothing to reverse the social and economic damage done by Brexit. We'll have long left the EU and they won't want to risk their careers on another referendum - the centrist position is one of continuity.

For the rUK's sake I hope Corbyn can get a government put together.

[JeMeSouviens]

You're meandering off the subject I was commenting on. Labour are in deep crisis and will haemorrhage yet further seats at the forthcoming elections because there is a great deal of infighting and turbulence within the party between Momentum and Blairites in a battle for power and setting of policies.

:agree:

They're on FPTP life support. The thing about FPTP is if it gets to a tipping point (see Scotland 2015) then they will be swept aside.

They will probably limp along ok in the coming election due to Remain tactical voting but the long term problem of MPs somewhat in tune with voters but with a completely different outlook to the leadership and the membership is not going away.

[Sylar]

I don't know how the next few months will play out but I don't see a GE solving many problems. Car crash politics mixing with the normal pre-Christmas period insanity. Bah ****ing humbug indeed.

[JeMeSouviens]

Corbyn confirmed he will back an election.

HERE WE, HERE WE, HERE WE ***** GO:flag::greengrin

This is Remain's last stand. There needs to be widespread tactical voting and the parties themselves are not going to get their **** together to co-ordinate it. It can happen on the ground though, like the good (and bad under Thatch) old days of a Tory free Scotland.

[JeMeSouviens]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/EICeqOMW4AAeBLF?format=jpg&name=4096x4096

[Northernhibee]

This is Remain's last stand. There needs to be widespread tactical voting and the parties themselves are not going to get their **** together to co-ordinate it. It can happen on the ground though, like the good (and bad under Thatch) old days of a Tory free Scotland.

This is one of the most important six weeks ahead of the United Kingdom's history. It will define the next few generations future.

[Ozyhibby]

This is Remain's last stand. There needs to be widespread tactical voting and the parties themselves are not going to get their **** together to co-ordinate it. It can happen on the ground though, like the good (and bad under Thatch) old days of a Tory free Scotland.

Hopefully easier to organise these days as well.


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[JeMeSouviens]

This is one of the most important six weeks ahead of the United Kingdom's history. It will define the next few generations future.

Forget all the **** about whether Corbyn is a Brexiter or whatever. Labour are going to go in with a ref#2 in their manifesto in all circumstances. For the purposes of this election they are a Remain party and Remainers should vote for the best placed of them, the SNP and Libs in each constituency.

[Northernhibee]

Forget all the **** about whether Corbyn is a Brexiter or whatever. Labour are going to go in with a ref#2 in their manifesto in all circumstances. For the purposes of this election they are a Remain party and Remainers should vote for the best placed of them, the SNP and Libs in each constituency.

The message needs to be clear; you don't need to agree with the SNP, Labour or the Lib Dems; if they are your best bet of representing remain then they get your vote. If you don't vote tactically you are voting for Boris and you are voting for no deal.

You cannot be a remainer and not vote tactically.

[Cataplana]

I enjoyed this piece. Basically says England is on a spiral of self destruction fuelled by an inability to understand themselves, or anybody else.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/27/brexit-politics-britain-england-union

[Ozyhibby]

The message needs to be clear; you don't need to agree with the SNP, Labour or the Lib Dems; if they are your best bet of representing remain then they get your vote. If you don't vote tactically you are voting for Boris and you are voting for no deal.

You cannot be a remainer and not vote tactically.

Easy to remember in Scotland. If you don’t already have a Lib Dem mp or it’s not Ian Murray, Vote SNP.


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[Sylar]

Easy to remember in Scotland. If you don’t already have a Lib Dem mp or it’s not Ian Murray, Vote SNP.


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There'll be a double layer to tactical voting up here though - people won't vote for the SNP because they won't want them to use that as some perceived mandate for Independence. I fancy the Lib Dems could poll very well up here for that reason if they have a good representation of candidates across constituencies.

[CloudSquall]

Depending on the constituency I could see many soft Tory voters (the type that Davidson won over) voting for the Lib Dems in Scotland.

I imagine the SNP will take the Labour seats bar Murray's with the Tory seats bar 1 or 2 being split between SNP and Lib Dems.

[Ozyhibby]

There'll be a double layer to tactical voting up here though - people won't vote for the SNP because they won't want them to use that as some perceived mandate for Independence. I fancy the Lib Dems could poll very well up here for that reason if they have a good representation of candidates across constituencies.

The SNP were 2nd in every single Labour and Tory seat last time. There is no chance anyone is coming from third place on the back of tactical voting. SNP base vote is too strong.


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[CloudSquall]

Tell you what though, I'll be up all...night...long on election night to witness ****s like Ross Thomson get SNP GAINed..

[SHODAN]

This is Remain's last stand. There needs to be widespread tactical voting and the parties themselves are not going to get their **** together to co-ordinate it. It can happen on the ground though, like the good (and bad under Thatch) old days of a Tory free Scotland.

The LDs aren't interested in keeping Johnson out or stopping Brexit; they just want to increase their number of seats. Corbyn won't compromise with anyone on the right (which let's face it, Swinson is).

It won't happen. Johnson majority.

[lord bunberry]

The SNP were 2nd in every single Labour and Tory seat last time. There is no chance anyone is coming from third place on the back of tactical voting. SNP base vote is too strong.


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:agree: There won’t be much tactical voting in Scotland. The tories don’t even have a leader and the SNP will hoover up most of their seats. The Lib Dem’s will probably hold onto their seats, although Swinson will have a fight on her hands and Murray will probably hold his seat.

[lord bunberry]

Tell you what though, I'll be up all...night...long on election night to witness ****s like Ross Thomson get SNP GAINed..
Me too.

[CloudSquall]

Do we think the Brexit party will be up to much or has Boris done enough to nullify that threat?

[Hibbyradge]

The LDs aren't interested in keeping Johnson out or stopping Brexit; they just want to increase their number of seats. Corbyn won't compromise with anyone on the right (which let's face it, Swinson is).

It won't happen. Johnson majority.

That's just patently not true. The LDs are pro-Europe and have been anti-Brexit from the start.

Of course they want to increase their seats, which party doesn't, but they will do what they can to stop it from happening. That might not be a lot on their own, but if it's a hung parliament, they'll have a say.

Johnson majority is most likely, but then May was supposed to clean up 2 years ago. I tend to think that the Tories will have learnt their lesson from that, but the Brexit party may be a fly in the Tory ointment so another hung parliament is definitely possible.

[Northernhibee]

Do we think the Brexit party will be up to much or has Boris done enough to nullify that threat?

No. They're no more of a threat than UKIP ever were.

[Hibbyradge]

Tell you what though, I'll be up all...night...long on election night to witness ****s like Ross Thomson get SNP GAINed..

If it's the 11th, I'll just have arrived back from 4 weeks in Australia. I'll probably be up all night whether I want to be or not! 😁

[Fife-Hibee]

We're heading for the worst kind of brexit, a tory brexit. There's no way Labour and Lib Dem voters will be prepared to exchange votes. Will be interesting to see how Scotland reacts after a massive tory majority and how the British media will try and lump that blame on the SNP.

[JeMeSouviens]

Do we think the Brexit party will be up to much or has Boris done enough to nullify that threat?

Hard to say. They've been very quiet. Cummings loathes Farage and nobody trusts him or wants to give him the sort of role he'd want as a sweetener, so I think it's vanishingly unlikely there'll be a Tory/BP pact. Farage hates the Tories (spurned) and has fertile ground if he wants to go for it. After all, there are no PMs in ditches as we speak.

So I expect them to come out of hibernation and take votes off the Tories but I suppose it's just about possible they might hold fire in the knowledge there might not be a Brexit if they do too well?

[Hibbyradge]

No. They're no more of a threat than UKIP ever were.

It's going to be interesting. Johnson could nullify the BP by taking a firm hard Brexit line in his campaign, but he'd risk alienating the conservative voters who don't want to crash out.

If he tries to fudge it, Farage will try to capitalise

There's many a slip twixt cup and lip, particularly in a long GE campaign with Johnson scrutinised as never before.

[Northernhibee]

Oddly, for remain to stand a chance we need to hope that Farage has an absolute barnstormer of a campaign that gets all the no dealers frothing at the mouth with excitement. It would take the feet from under Boris and even in that circumstance I couldn't see BXP taking more than 10-15 seats, but they may cost the Tories 90-100 seats IF remainers vote tactically.

There may be political capital in not opposing the Brexit Party Ltd. too heavily in this election.

[JeMeSouviens]

Oddly, for remain to stand a chance we need to hope that Farage has an absolute barnstormer of a campaign that gets all the no dealers frothing at the mouth with excitement. It would take the feet from under Boris and even in that circumstance I couldn't see BXP taking more than 10-15 seats, but they may cost the Tories 90-100 seats IF remainers vote tactically.

There may be political capital in not opposing the Brexit Party Ltd. too heavily in this election.

:agree:

Without a pact they probably won't win any seats but they could stop the Tories making any inroads to the Midlands/North of England.

Edit to say the political capital in opposing them is there though - the more Remainers kick against Farage, the more hardline Leavers he will pick off.

[CloudSquall]

Shaping up to be a 4 way bloodbath between BXP / Tories / Labour / Lib Dems down south.


Could come down to which side can tactically vote better..

[Smartie]

I wish we could just have a second referendum.

We all know what leaving looks like now and if leave won, absolutely no remainers could have any complaints whatsoever.

This single issue general election is full of silly games, closed door deals and tactical voting. Is this REALLY in any way democratic?

This way just prolongs the nonsense.

[JeMeSouviens]

SNP to try and amend the election bill to get "settled status" EU nationals a vote.

Apart from the fact that this is a tactical Remain boost, I can't see how it can legitimately be opposed anway? No taxation without representation as someone once said.

[Northernhibee]

:agree:

Without a pact they probably won't win any seats but they could stop the Tories making any inroads to the Midlands/North of England.

Edit to say the political capital in opposing them is there though - the more Remainers kick against Farage, the more hardline Leavers he will pick off.

You're quite right.

Get Tony Blair speaking out about Farage at every opportunity. That would do more to damage Boris than anything else.

[SHODAN]

SNP to try and amend the election bill to get "settled status" EU nationals a vote.

Apart from the fact that this is a tactical Remain boost, I can't see how it can legitimately be opposed anway? No taxation without representation as someone once said.

Because in the eyes of the British government even settled migrants aren't equal with UK nationals.

It would also set a precedent that they can vote in future elections and this would hammer the Tory vote post Brexit.

[Fife-Hibee]

Hard to say. They've been very quiet. Cummings loathes Farage and nobody trusts him or wants to give him the sort of role he'd want as a sweetener, so I think it's vanishingly unlikely there'll be a Tory/BP pact. Farage hates the Tories (spurned) and has fertile ground if he wants to go for it. After all, there are no PMs in ditches as we speak.

So I expect them to come out of hibernation and take votes off the Tories but I suppose it's just about possible they might hold fire in the knowledge there might not be a Brexit if they do too well?

Farage IS a tory.

A few things will happen here.

1) The BP will form a pact with the tories over the flogging off of the NHS, tax avoidance schemes for millionaires and ultimately shafting the vulnerable, the foreigners and the working class.

2) Talks of a pact between the Lib Dems and Labour will break down. The Lib Dems will make sure of that. But will use tory media spin to make it appear that Labour are to blame.

3) The SNP will near enough get a clean sweep in Scotland, but will be blamed for many years to come by the British tory media for "allowing" a tory brexit. This will be used in an attempt to crush the idea of Scottish Independence for another 4 decades or so.

Mark this post.

[JeMeSouviens]

Farage IS a tory.

A few things will happen here.

1) The BP will form a pact with the tories over the flogging off of the NHS, tax avoidance schemes for millionaires and ultimately shafting the vulnerable, the foreigners and the working class.

2) Talks of a pact between the Lib Dems and Labour will break down. The Lib Dems will make sure of that. But will use tory media spin to make it appear that Labour are to blame.

3) The SNP will near enough get a clean sweep in Scotland, but will be blamed for many years to come by the British tory media for "allowing" a tory brexit. This will be used in an attempt to crush the idea of Scottish Independence for another 4 decades or so.

Mark this post.

Farage WAS a Tory but hates them because they rejected him as a candidate. He is, above all, in it for the glory of Nige.

1) v unlikely, Tories have enough loonies of their own without getting the real nutters on board and Cummings and Farage loathe one another.

2) They won't even start. Total non-runner.

3) You're in bizarro-world again.

[JeMeSouviens]

How US trade negotiators will use UK desperation for a deal to get what US Big Pharma wants:

https://twitter.com/C4Dispatches/status/1188848900767211521

[Fife-Hibee]

Farage WAS a Tory but hates them because they rejected him as a candidate. He is, above all, in it for the glory of Nige.

1) v unlikely, Tories have enough loonies of their own without getting the real nutters on board and Cummings and Farage loathe one another.

2) They won't even start. Total non-runner.

3) You're in bizarro-world again.

Farage IS a tory. Toryism doesn't require a particular party. It's who they are as a person. As you say, he's in it for himself, which is the very epitome of being a tory.

1) Why would loonies care about taking on more loonies? Especially when they're all in it for the same goals? The tories want to flog off the NHS, Nigel Farage wants to flog off the NHS. The tories want to step up their tax dodging capabilities, Nigel Farage wants to step up his tax dodging capabilities. The tories want to screw over foreigners and vulnerable people, as does Nigel Farage. There's plenty of common ground for Farage to sink his teeth into. The last thing he'll want to do is split the Brexit vote. That's why they're keeping so quiet. They won't even campaign in this election.

2) Great news for Brexiteers

3) We'll see. But how many will notice rather than simply being suckered in by it?

[McSwanky]

Farage IS a tory.

A few things will happen here.

1) The BP will form a pact with the tories over the flogging off of the NHS, tax avoidance schemes for millionaires and ultimately shafting the vulnerable, the foreigners and the working class.

2) Talks of a pact between the Lib Dems and Labour will break down. The Lib Dems will make sure of that. But will use tory media spin to make it appear that Labour are to blame.

3) The SNP will near enough get a clean sweep in Scotland, but will be blamed for many years to come by the British tory media for "allowing" a tory brexit. This will be used in an attempt to crush the idea of Scottish Independence for another 4 decades or so.

Mark this post.

Marked.

[WeeRussell]

Farage IS a tory.

A few things will happen here.

1) The BP will form a pact with the tories over the flogging off of the NHS, tax avoidance schemes for millionaires and ultimately shafting the vulnerable, the foreigners and the working class.

2) Talks of a pact between the Lib Dems and Labour will break down. The Lib Dems will make sure of that. But will use tory media spin to make it appear that Labour are to blame.

3) The SNP will near enough get a clean sweep in Scotland, but will be blamed for many years to come by the British tory media for "allowing" a tory brexit. This will be used in an attempt to crush the idea of Scottish Independence for another 4 decades or so.

Mark this post.

Some interesting theories Fife... but I think we'll already be independent before any blame can be used to try and crush the ideal.

[Peevemor]

"Where is the prime minister," asks Mr Blackford, noting that he has left the chamber.


"One wonders if he is away to dig a ditch," ... :thumbsup:

[Ozyhibby]

Jo Swinson doing well in parly just now.


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[Mibbes Aye]

Jo Swinson doing well in parly just now.


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Literally just back home from holiday in the last hour and didn’t see her. What was she doing that came across well?

[Ozyhibby]

Literally just back home from holiday in the last hour and didn’t see her. What was she doing that came across well?

Actually answering the questions when she gave way.


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[marinello59]

Farage IS a tory.

A few things will happen here.

1) The BP will form a pact with the tories over the flogging off of the NHS, tax avoidance schemes for millionaires and ultimately shafting the vulnerable, the foreigners and the working class.

2) Talks of a pact between the Lib Dems and Labour will break down. The Lib Dems will make sure of that. But will use tory media spin to make it appear that Labour are to blame.

3) The SNP will near enough get a clean sweep in Scotland, but will be blamed for many years to come by the British tory media for "allowing" a tory brexit. This will be used in an attempt to crush the idea of Scottish Independence for another 4 decades or so.

Mark this post.

1. The Tories will not form an electoral pact with the Brexit Party.
2. There has been no cross party talks of an electoral pact between the LibDems and Labour to break down and there won’t be.
3. Read what you have written there, it doesn’t make any sense.

[marinello59]

Jo Swinson doing well in parly just now.


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As she did last night. There is no ambiguity at all about her position on Brexit, her party will be rewarded at the ballot box in England and Wales.

[Mibbes Aye]

Actually answering the questions when she gave way.


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Cheers, unfair to ask you post it and I am sure I can find it myself.

[lapsedhibee]

Do we think the Brexit party will be up to much or has Boris done enough to nullify that threat?


No. They're no more of a threat than UKIP ever were.

Ni-gel, Ni-gel could be key in this election. As a performer he eats Johnson alive. If he decides that his own personal glory is more important than Brexit itself :hmmm: he might be minded to absolutely destroy Johnson.

[Just_Jimmy]

British politics needs more Jess Phillips'. She's fantastic.



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[Northernhibee]

British politics needs more Jess Phillips'. She's fantastic.



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I would be so much happier if she was leader of the opposition going into this election. Straight talking will be what cuts through Johnson's bull****.

[Northernhibee]

Hard to escape the feeling that both parties have walked into a trap. Dominic Cummings desperate for a people vs the parliament election, Boris also wanting to have a timescale to allow another WDA vote and to also exclude as many students as possible.

We're in for another hung parliament, aren't we?

[BroxburnHibee]

Hard to escape the feeling that both parties have walked into a trap. Dominic Cummings desperate for a people vs the parliament election, Boris also wanting to have a timescale to allow another WDA vote and to also exclude as many students as possible.

We're in for another hung parliament, aren't we?

Yep which solves nothing.

[Callum_62]

Looks like 12th December election is on

Now, I'm away in the carribean from 30th Nov - better to register for postal vote or vote by proxy?

I read somewhere that the postal vote papers go out a maximum of 16 days before the election, seeing as I'm leaving 12 days before kinda cutting it tight

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[Fuzzywuzzy]

Hard to escape the feeling that both parties have walked into a trap. Dominic Cummings desperate for a people vs the parliament election, Boris also wanting to have a timescale to allow another WDA vote and to also exclude as many students as possible.

We're in for another hung parliament, aren't we?


Now got the admiral ackbar gif stuck in my head. Cheers for that

[Fife-Hibee]

Hard to escape the feeling that both parties have walked into a trap. Dominic Cummings desperate for a people vs the parliament election, Boris also wanting to have a timescale to allow another WDA vote and to also exclude as many students as possible.

We're in for another hung parliament, aren't we?

Labour didn't walk into a trap. They never had a choice in the matter. When it became abundantly clear to them that there was going to be an election anyway (even if they voted against it) they had no choice but to vote for it. As going into a general election as the main opposition party, having voted against having one, would have been the biggest blunder of all.

[Ozyhibby]

Labour didn't walk into a trap. They never had a choice in the matter. When it became abundantly clear to them that there was going to be an election anyway (even if they voted against it) they had no choice but to vote for it. As going into a general election as the main opposition party, having voted against having one, would have been the biggest blunder of all.

SNP and Lib Dem’s never voted for it. Just Tories and Labour.


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[Fife-Hibee]

SNP and Lib Dem’s never voted for it. Just Tories and Labour.


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I was referring to the initial vote, not the vote over the date of the election. Labour would have been left looking cowardly and foolish if they hadn't backed it, since it was being voted through anyway. So even although they don't really want an election right now, they had to make it seem as if they did.

[marinello59]

I was referring to the initial vote, not the vote over the date of the election. Labour would have been left looking cowardly and foolish if they hadn't backed it, since it was being voted through anyway. So even although they don't really want an election right now, they had to make it seem as if they did.

I'll agree with you there. Labour were left with no choice other than to appear to back an election they don't really want.
And it provides a good illustration of just how poor Corbyn's leadership of his party has been. Despite the Tories operating with a minority Government for months and losing vote after vote as the splits within their ranks became chasms the main opposition party could not take control and lead the way, all they could do was react to events as they unfolded. How poor is that?

[Peevemor]

British politics needs more Jess Phillips'. She's fantastic.



Sent from my Pixel 3a using TapatalkExcellent

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191030/2d87db4681cac3edb449eac548056d8b.jpg

[Fife-Hibee]

I'll agree with you there. Labour were left with no choice other than to appear to back an election they don't really want.
And it provides a good illustration of just how poor Corbyn's leadership of his party has been. Despite the Tories operating with a minority Government for months and losing vote after vote as the splits within their ranks became chasms the main opposition party could not take control and lead the way, all they could do was react to events as they unfolded. How poor is that?

I don't think Corbyn ever really had a chance with his true to the left ideology. There have been people within the party seeking to undermine him at every opportunity since he came in. Even now, there are MPs in the Labour Party trying to make him look as bad as possible by whinging about Labours backing of the election, despite not having a choice in the matter.

If they actually cared about the party, they'd be keeping their mouths shut about it and campaigning hard for the election. But they just don't want Labour to do well with Corbyn as leader, which I find very sad.

[cabbageandribs1875]

so let me get this right, when the media revealed the SNP and lib dems were voting for an election corbyn proclaimed to the media it was a stunt, 48 hours later corbyn was voting for an election as well :rolleyes: why are the same media not asking him if he just pulled a stunt

[Fife-Hibee]

so let me get this right, when the media revealed the SNP and lib dems were voting for an election corbyn proclaimed to the media it was a stunt, 48 hours later corbyn was voting for an election as well :rolleyes: why are the same media not asking him if he just pulled a stunt

There's nothing to stop Nicola or Jo claiming that he pulled a stunt. However, Labour did exactly what you'd have expected them to do. It would have made no sense for them to vote against an election that they knew was going to be pushed through anyway. It would have looked really bad for them had they done so.

[Hibbyradge]

so let me get this right, when the media revealed the SNP and lib dems were voting for an election corbyn proclaimed to the media it was a stunt, 48 hours later corbyn was voting for an election as well :rolleyes: why are the same media not asking him if he just pulled a stunt

The media didn't say it was a stunt. They reported the Tories response to the SNP and LD's attempt to get the election called on 9 December.

They said it was a stunt because it had no hope of succeeding.

Corbyn supported the motion to call it on 12 December which succeeded. He didn't instigate it, so even if it had been rejected, it wouldn't have been his "stunt".

[stoneyburn hibs]

Ian Blackford just invited John Bercow to the Holy ground as he wished him well in retirement 😁

[cabbageandribs1875]

Ian Blackford just invited John Bercow to the Holy ground as he wished him well in retirement 😁


just heard him, my stream must be 2 mins slow :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

wan kerr getting all excited when ian blackford is speaking

[JeMeSouviens]

So to the OP - No it won’t :-)

[1875godsgift]

So to the OP - No it won’t :-)

I will, however, be hopefully checking all the ditches on my way to work tomorrow......

[BroxburnHibee]

So to the OP - No it won’t :-)

Indeed. I should start a new one.

Will we leave on the 31st January 2020? :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

Indeed. I should start a new one.

Will we leave on the 31st January 2020? :greengrin

I am sure I often disagree with a lot of posters on here but in this case I am confident i am in a majority in saying I really, really, really hope not,

And I actually don’t think we will if we, as in Remainers, can find a way.

I am all for tactical voting and some clear agreement from all the Remain parties.

[ronaldo7]

I am sure I often disagree with a lot of posters on here but in this case I am confident i am in a majority in saying I really, really, really hope not,

And I actually don’t think we will if we, as in Remainers, can find a way.

I am all for tactical voting and some clear agreement from all the Remain parties.

Ah, the good old tactical voting, apart from, Scotland, where labour, and the Tories stand aside for the lib dems to get a clear run against Ian blackford and the SNP, the pro remain party.

Also the lib dems doing deals with Plaid Cymru, but won't do deals in Scotland.

Better together 2 is up and running.

[Mibbes Aye]

Ah, the good old tactical voting, apart from, Scotland, where labour, and the Tories stand aside for the lib dems to get a clear run against Ian blackford and the SNP, the pro remain party.

Also the lib dems doing deals with Plaid Cymru, but won't do deals in Scotland.

Better together 2 is up and running.

Grievance, resentment and petted lips.

Dont ever change :greengrin

[weecounty hibby]

Grievance, resentment and petted lips.

Dont ever change :greengrin

It's a good question regarding why they will negotiate with Welsh nationalists but not Scottish nationalists. And yet another question that the Lib Dem leader seems incapable of answering

[ronaldo7]

Grievance, resentment and petted lips.

Dont ever change :greengrin

I could say that about your comment re the "DEATH STAR" in Glasgow...I won't though. I hope when your family eventually need the SNHS they're there, as usual with their professionalism front and centre.

Now back on topic.

Why would the Lib dems do deals with one set of Normalists, and not the other. Strange bunch.:wink:

[Mibbes Aye]

I could say that about your comment re the "DEATH STAR" in Glasgow...I won't though. I hope when your family eventually need the SNHS they're there, as usual with their professionalism front and centre.

Now back on topic.

Why would the Lib dems do deals with one set of Normalists, and not the other. Strange bunch.:wink:

The Death Star was a commonly used nickname by people who worked there, based on the sheer size, scale and resemblance to the Star Wars film. Unfortunately, it took on a more resonant tone with what has happened there.

Please don’t talk about me and my family and to whether we have needed or will need the NHS. You have no right.

And ‘Normalist’ really? Is that the new thing? That doesn’t make the separatist movement sound like some right-wing, white, West Virginian Nazi movement! Whoever thought that up should be sacked. When you are trying to make an argument to win over the majority, then describing yourself as Normalist, as defined against the majority who disagreed with you, is just more grievance and resentment.

Im not a LibDem member, nor am I Jo Swinson, and I have been on holiday so had less time to read up on reportage. I genuinely don’t know, at this stage, why they are talking to PC and not SNP. Maybe you could offer a view. Maybe they are turned off by the massive grievance and resentment politics because it is singularly unattractive?

[Cataplana]

If people just want to get it done, and they don't care what it is, would it not make sense not to do it at all?

[lapsedhibee]

If people just want to get it done, and they don't care what it is, would it not make sense not to do it at all?

You might think. And particularly when almost every single poll in the last two years has shown a majority for Remain. But too anti-democratic, probably.

[ronaldo7]

The Death Star was a commonly used nickname by people who worked there, based on the sheer size, scale and resemblance to the Star Wars film. Unfortunately, it took on a more resonant tone with what has happened there.

Please don’t talk about me and my family and to whether we have needed or will need the NHS. You have no right.

And ‘Normalist’ really? Is that the new thing? That doesn’t make the separatist movement sound like some right-wing, white, West Virginian Nazi movement! Whoever thought that up should be sacked. When you are trying to make an argument to win over the majority, then describing yourself as Normalist, as defined against the majority who disagreed with you, is just more grievance and resentment.

Im not a LibDem member, nor am I Jo Swinson, and I have been on holiday so had less time to read up on reportage. I genuinely don’t know, at this stage, why they are talking to PC and not SNP. Maybe you could offer a view. Maybe they are turned off by the massive grievance and resentment politics because it is singularly unattractive?

You introduced them on another thread, so it seems you'll use them to make a point, but don't like someone referencing them on a similar subject.

Fair do's though, if you don't want me referencing Mummy, Daddy, and the bairns, I won't. :aok:

The point about the lib dems which you have no idea about, is probably just them being Lib dems though. Say anything to get the power. :na na:

[Mibbes Aye]

You introduced them on another thread, so it seems you'll use them to make a point, but don't like someone referencing them on a similar subject.

Fair do's though, if you don't want me referencing Mummy, Daddy, and the bairns, I won't. :aok:

The point about the lib dems which you have no idea about, is probably just them being Lib dems though. Say anything to get the power. :na na:

That is a pretty pathetic post.

My Mummy and Daddy, really?

Have a word with yourself. Or maybe just go back to linking to Wings and the like, you are not a credible poster, and the worst thing is, I think you know that.

[ronaldo7]

That is a pretty pathetic post.

My Mummy and Daddy, really?

Have a word with yourself. Or maybe just go back to linking to Wings and the like, you are not a credible poster, and the worst thing is, I think you know that.

You introduced them. I've already said I won't mention them again, so if you could get back on topic, I'd be obliged.:rolleyes:

[Mibbes Aye]

You introduced them. I've already said I won't mention them again, so if you could get back on topic, I'd be obliged.:rolleyes:

If we go back to post 3178 then I think we find it was you who introduced my family into the debate. I mentioned them earlier in a fair manner in a reply to a post, where another poster had raised the issue of health care for all.

Apology and retraction awaited, but not expected.

Either way, debate with me like an adult, you don’t know my family so leave them out.

[Mibbes Aye]

You introduced them on another thread, so it seems you'll use them to make a point, but don't like someone referencing them on a similar subject.

Fair do's though, if you don't want me referencing Mummy, Daddy, and the bairns, I won't. :aok:

The point about the lib dems which you have no idea about, is probably just them being Lib dems though. Say anything to get the power. :na na:

And anything to say about the dodgy right-wing, racist-sounding ‘Normalist’ talk? Is that your thing now?

I am sure most Nats are not racists but ‘Normalists’, really? It sounds supremacist. Why would you even consider using language like that?

#worriedforyou

[Cataplana]

You might think. And particularly when almost every single poll in the last two years has shown a majority for Remain. But too anti-democratic, probably.

The whole "anything to end this" is typical of their logic. As I say, giving up will end it, and from what I can see everybody will be happy.

[ronaldo7]

If we go back to post 3178 then I think we find it was you who introduced my family into the debate. I mentioned them earlier in a fair manner in a reply to a post, where another poster had raised the issue of health care for all.

Apology and retraction awaited, but not expected.

Either way, debate with me like an adult, you don’t know my family so leave them out.

For the love of god.

You introduced them on the SNP nonsense thread. Post number 2949, way earlier than I ever did.

It was in the early hours of the morning, so maybe that has something to do with it.

Now if you'll just move along and get the thread back on track, I'm sure we'd all be obliged.

I've already said that I'd leave your family out of it, so why bring them into it again? SERIOUSLY.

Apology and retraction awaited, but not expected.

[CloudSquall]

And anything to say about the dodgy right-wing, racist-sounding ‘Normalist’ talk? Is that your thing now?

I am sure most Nats are not racists but ‘Normalists’, really? It sounds supremacist. Why would you even consider using language like that?

#worriedforyou

We've got Fife and myself stalking Ruth Davidson and Christine Jardine and now Ronaldo's been outed as the supremacist amongst us, who's the next to be rumbled? :greengrin

[Smartie]

Is it the mention of Newman and Baddiel on the Jo Swinson thread that has you lot stopping just short of using the "that's your mum, that is" line?


https://youtu.be/9UMedd03JCA

[ronaldo7]

We've got Fife and myself stalking Ruth Davidson and Christine Jardine and now Ronaldo's been outed as the supremacist amongst us, who's the next to be rumbled? :greengrin

#worriedforyou

:faf:

[Frankhfc]

We've got Fife and myself stalking Ruth Davidson and Christine Jardine and now Ronaldo's been outed as the supremacist amongst us, who's the next to be rumbled? :greengrin

Maybe Fife-Hibee's lurking around out there now with camera in hand :greengrin

[Cataplana]

https://www.thelondoneconomic.com/news/vote-leave-director-admits-won-lied-public/08/02/

Cummings admission that they wouldn't have won without the NHS lie, raises all sorts of questions about the validity in letting people vote at all.

Totally unscientifically, I see it as this. Either they were too stupid to realise that the statement was untrue, or they were prepared to accept a lie in some mad hope it might be true.

If I'm right, it means that any of us is missing the point when we call out untruths from politicians. Namely, it's not whether their claims are true, but rather, whether they will be believed.

[Moulin Yarns]

A star is born - They say 'cometh the hour cometh the man' - listen to this brilliant Bishop Auckland farmer...
"On referendum night we went to bed as Great Britain and woke up as Little Britain" https://t.co/lOKHj8emNg

[Slavers]

A star is born - They say 'cometh the hour cometh the man' - listen to this brilliant Bishop Auckland farmer...
"On referendum night we went to bed as Great Britain and woke up as Little Britain" https://t.co/lOKHj8emNg

Or is it the words of a bitter farmer that went to bed receiving lavish EU subsidies and woke up to find the gravy train is over.

This is an article that may interest you or maybe not because I guess In your eyes the EU can do no wrong?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/10/brexit-leaving-eu-farming-agriculture

[Moulin Yarns]

Or is it the words of a bitter farmer that went to bed receiving lavish EU subsidies and woke up to find the gravy train is over.

This is an article that may interest you or maybe not because I guess In your eyes the EU can do no wrong?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2018/oct/10/brexit-leaving-eu-farming-agriculture

Just what I would expect to hear from the brexs hitters.

FYI George Monbiot is a very sensible person, as a member of the EU every country has a chance to change the CAP, and his environmental credentials are a lot more than Michael Gove's. You would know that if you read to the end of the article.

[Slavers]

Just what I would expect to hear from the brexs hitters.

FYI George Monbiot is a very sensible person, as a member of the EU every country has a chance to change the CAP, and his environmental credentials are a lot more than Michael Gove's. You would know that if you read to the end of the article.

Did he wake up in the morning to find his lavish subsidies are to be stopped? I'm just saying this could be the reason why he is using terms like little Britian.

[Callum_62]

Anyone listed out real term benefits of brexit yet?

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Smartie]

Did he wake up in the morning to find his lavish subsidies are to be stopped? I'm just saying this could be the reason why he is using terms like little Britian.

Lavish subsidies?

Or is an ordinary man just reacting like any ordinary man would when his livelihood is under threat?

[wpj]

Did he wake up in the morning to find his lavish subsidies are to be stopped? I'm just saying this could be the reason why he is using terms like little Britian.

No one woke up knowing WTF was going to happen. We still don't!

[lapsedhibee]

No one woke up knowing WTF was going to happen. We still don't!

No, but we do know that the world will end if Scotland leaves the UK. (https://twitter.com/Jeggit/status/1194508664113156097)

[Fife-Hibee]

No, but we do know that the world will end if Scotland leaves the UK. (https://twitter.com/Jeggit/status/1194508664113156097)

Deary me.

[Colr]

Anyone listed out real term benefits of brexit yet?

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Someone should so we can check them off in a generation when they’re supposed to materialise. Or did Mogg say 50 years.

[wpj]

No, but we do know that the world will end if Scotland leaves the UK. (https://twitter.com/Jeggit/status/1194508664113156097)

Amazing they even have enough sense to breathe

[Fife-Hibee]

https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2019_11/image.png.6826865a2aaf1ec0979048e021ef08c1.png

[lapsedhibee]

https://www.pieandbovril.com/forum/uploads/monthly_2019_11/image.png.6826865a2aaf1ec0979048e021ef08c1.png

Looking forward to Francois, Bridgen, etc, adjusting their mantra to "Let's Get Brexit Done, it's what 161.7 million people wanted".

[Colr]

Looking forward to Francois, Bridgen, etc, adjusting their mantra to "Let's Get Brexit Done, it's what 161.7 million people wanted".

That Gino Francois, the dyed-in-the-wool Englishman?

[Fife-Hibee]

A lot of people in engurland saying they will vote tory "just this once" so that the will of the people are "respected".

I never realized when people went to the ballot box to vote for brexit, they did so with the understanding that it meant the NHS being shelved off to the highest bidder in the US. Dodgy trade deals with the US which will see regulation standards plummet. The implementation of greater tax dodging schemes for rich tories. A major recession with mass unemployment and other draconian measures that wouldn't look out of place in the 19th century.

They've all lost their minds! :bitchy: Lets get Scotland out of here!

[Hibernia&Alba]

Is it the mention of Newman and Baddiel on the Jo Swinson thread that has you lot stopping just short of using the "that's your mum, that is" line?


https://youtu.be/9UMedd03JCA

"I am aware of his work" :greengrin

[Bangkok Hibby]

"I am aware of his work" :greengrin

😂😂😂

[Moulin Yarns]

THREAD: How the Thomas the Tank Engine characters voted in the EU referendum.

THOMAS: Remain. Really likes the BBC's Brexitcast podcast and recommends it to everybody. https://t.co/JCB8gRInZM

[Moulin Yarns]

I see Brexit is working for those who voted for it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50586338

[Slavers]

I wonder what the Stop Brexit shouty man is doing these days?

[Hibbyradge]

I wonder what the Stop Brexit shouty man is doing these days?

You really should stop trolling.

[Hiber-nation]

THREAD: How the Thomas the Tank Engine characters voted in the EU referendum.

THOMAS: Remain. Really likes the BBC's Brexitcast podcast and recommends it to everybody. https://t.co/JCB8gRInZM

That is brilliant! Funniest thing I've read for ages :aok:

[JeMeSouviens]

I wonder what the Stop Brexit shouty man is doing these days?

He has vowed to “fight on” apparently.

[marinello59]

And so the end game begins. It’s all over bar the shouting.

[lapsedhibee]

And so the end game begins. It’s all over bar the shouting.

Nah. Only :cb the end of the beginning :cb .

[Cataplana]

I see Brexit is working for those who voted for it.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-50586338

Providing it was only EU migrants they were concerned about.

"The ONS estimated that about 229,000 more non-EU citizens moved to the UK than left in the year ending June 2019."

Frying pan and fire should spring to mind. If Brexit was their answer to their problems.

[Colr]

Providing it was only EU migrants they were concerned about.

"The ONS estimated that about 229,000 more non-EU citizens moved to the UK than left in the year ending June 2019."

Frying pan and fire should spring to mind. If Brexit was their answer to their problems.

They can already control those migrants. Don’t seem to be very good at it though!!

[Cataplana]

They can already control those migrants. Don’t seem to be very good at it though!!

It's not like they've been in power for 10 years or anything.

[JeMeSouviens]

Freedom of movement continuing if you've got the moolah (warning, contains David Rowland content). :rolleyes:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-conservative-donors-exclus-idUSKBN1YN18N

[Moulin Yarns]

MPs have voted for the Withdrawal Agreement bill.

358 to 234

The UK is on its way to leaving the EU.

[G B Young]

MPs have voted for the Withdrawal Agreement bill.

358 to 234

The UK is on its way to leaving the EU.

The size of that majority points to a fair number of Labour MPs breaking ranks.

[USAHibby]

MPs have voted for the Withdrawal Agreement bill. 358 to 234 The UK is on its way to leaving the EU. Meanwhile... https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/80778537_593437794532937_6438255027239780352_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=102&_nc_eui2=AeERqL0jOfB7pR8sV9pktbGlWFKh7NRu0sfeshWmt mZip0kA4e9YjCuM4KrboZwFNBoyvVaqShFbYeZ1-1nAWnQ9HqDDt71535byEuM_iMhitQ&_nc_ohc=NBjaveXp0Q0AQmRRa7Osiulm8BTxXNjUHXuNBVqKXM NUxZlyg6K0289Ow&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=51caccd4a3af7c82bae49606afab94c2&oe=5E67DF14 Real people continue to suffer.

[Ozyhibby]

MPs have voted for the Withdrawal Agreement bill.

358 to 234

The UK is on its way to leaving the EU.

Whatever England wants is what will happen now. We just have to accept that.


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[ballengeich]

Freedom of movement continuing if you've got the moolah (warning, contains David Rowland content). :rolleyes:

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-eu-conservative-donors-exclus-idUSKBN1YN18N

Hasn't the Rees-Mogg family trust relocated its HQ to Ireland?

[JeMeSouviens]

The size of that majority points to a fair number of Labour MPs breaking ranks.

6 voted with the Tories, not sure about abstentions.

Edit - and 32 abstained.

[JeMeSouviens]

Hasn't the Rees-Mogg family trust relocated its HQ to Ireland?

I think an investment company he's involved with moved its funds there.

[G B Young]

6 voted with the Tories, not sure about abstentions.

Edit - and 32 abstained.

Almost a fifth of Labour MPs go against Corbyn's instructions to vote against the bill. That leadership election can't come quick enough for them.

[Moulin Yarns]

I believe today is called mad Friday, parliament confirmed it.

[Cataplana]

Almost a fifth of Labour MPs go against Corbyn's instructions to vote against the bill. That leadership election can't come quick enough for them.

Ironically the result of it is completely out of their control. Blairites like them should just cross the floor now.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Meanwhile... https://scontent-lhr3-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/80778537_593437794532937_6438255027239780352_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=102&_nc_eui2=AeERqL0jOfB7pR8sV9pktbGlWFKh7NRu0sfeshWmt mZip0kA4e9YjCuM4KrboZwFNBoyvVaqShFbYeZ1-1nAWnQ9HqDDt71535byEuM_iMhitQ&_nc_ohc=NBjaveXp0Q0AQmRRa7Osiulm8BTxXNjUHXuNBVqKXM NUxZlyg6K0289Ow&_nc_ht=scontent-lhr3-1.xx&oh=51caccd4a3af7c82bae49606afab94c2&oe=5E67DF14 Real people continue to suffer.

The DWP jobsworth who made this decision should be publicly birched, as, of course, should the heartless members of the government who made this possible. What an outrage.

[Cataplana]

The DWP jobsworth who made this decision should be publicly birched, as, of course, should the heartless members of the government who made this possible. What an outrage.

There is not enough information there to be outraged or anything else.

For starters "disability benefit" means nothing at all. As the doctor knows .

[cabbageandribs1875]

The DWP jobsworth who made this decision should be publicly birched, as, of course, should the heartless members of the government who made this possible. What an outrage.


there's plenty cases like this on social media, the caring tories.... one day Netflix will have a docuseries on the mindset of people who vote tory :agree:sickening, and a lot worse to come i'm sure of that

[Hibernia&Alba]

There is not enough information there to be outraged or anything else.

For starters "disability benefit" means nothing at all. As the doctor knows .

A terminally ill women having benefit taken from her is outrageous, no matter what.

[Cataplana]

A terminally ill women having benefit taken from her is outrageous, no matter what.

On reflection, I agree.

Terminally ill means death can be expected within six months.

It would be nice to hear the reasoning behind the decision.

[Moulin Yarns]

Oh look, US takeover of UK defence company approved by the government.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50874181

[lapsedhibee]

Oh look, US takeover of UK defence company approved by the government.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50874181

I'm not sure that the Americans have thought this whole thing through properly. When the time comes, how are they going to fit a 51st star in to the existing neat pattern on their flag?

[Hibbyradge]

Ironically the result of it is completely out of their control. Blairites like them should just cross the floor now.

Corbyn's a Brexiteer.

That c*** probably put them up to it.

[marinello59]

Oh look, US takeover of UK defence company approved by the government.


https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-50874181

So much for Corbyn being a security risk. The Government sneaked this one out hoping nobody would notice. Risks have been mitigated to an acceptable level? Remember that phrase when they start selling off chunks of the NHS.

[Moulin Yarns]

So much for Corbyn being a security risk. The Government sneaked this one out hoping nobody would notice. Risks have been mitigated to an acceptable level? Remember that phrase when they start selling off chunks of the NHS.

But they told us that they wouldn't sell any of the NHS, are you saying that they lied?

[Cataplana]

But they told us that they wouldn't sell any of the NHS, are you saying that they lied?

I think you'd have to wait till it happens before you can say they lied.

[Moulin Yarns]

Get the popcorn, sit back and enjoy :greengrin


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCE4aVB4pjk

[Hibbyradge]

Get the popcorn, sit back and enjoy :greengrin


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCE4aVB4pjk

I saw the names Farage and Morgan in the information.

Didn't look any further.

[lapsedhibee]

I saw the names Farage and Morgan in the information.

Didn't look any further.

Morgan wasn't in it. Andrew Bridgen provided the giggles.

[Moulin Yarns]

I saw the names Farage and Morgan in the information.

Didn't look any further.

Some Tory, Andrew Bridgen, has nominated Nigel Farage for a knighthood in the New Year Honours list. This is a bit of a rammy between him and Dr Shola Mos-Shogbamimu

(https://twitter.com/i/bookmarks)

[Cataplana]

Give him a knighthood, just to show what a man of the people he is.

[Bostonhibby]

Give him a knighthood, just to show what a man of the people he is.After his abject failures to get elected to political power it's certainly beyond irony that our country's dubious system of patronage could see him finally getting into the system of government properly, great opportunity to enhance his income from the EU as well.

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[Moulin Yarns]

After his abject failures to get elected to political power it's certainly beyond irony that our country's dubious system of patronage could see him finally getting into the system of government properly, great opportunity to enhance his income from the EU as well.

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Income from the EU stops on the 1st of February 😁