Euro 2021 non-Scotland games

[easty]

https://mobile.twitter.com/JackGrealish/status/1414522271859888132

Grealish wanted to take a pen he says

[easty]

God Save the Queen" is the de facto national anthem of the United Kingdom

So....why have the English hijacked it as belonging to them?😇

They’re welcome to it.

[mal]

It's the de jure anthem of the UK.

But I think you have it the wrong way round, it used to be played for all UK teams, but Us/Wales have moved on and England are left with it. Do NI still use it as well? Not exactly inclusive for them.

It's a toadying prayer on behalf of the monarch, rather than an anthem that unifies the "Nation" and contains an actively divisive final verse (that is no longer used and was, obviously, of its period in history).

Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring
May he sedition hush
And like a torrent rush
Rebellious Scots to crush
God save the King

[Hibrandenburg]

It would be wrong, I think, to try and make out that this sort of thing is reflective of today's England support. Most of the TV features which focused on fans gathered around the country showed big, family friendly groups of punters all there just to will on their team. A significant amount of ethnic diversity among them, in the stadium and, of course, within the team. Anyone trying to make racist mileage out of the defeat (particularly those hiding behind social media) isn't a football fan, just a racist. Twitter etc need to do a lot more to deplatform this sort of nonsense.

While the colour of the players who missed the penalties should be irrelevant, it would have been wonderfully inspiring to see those youngsters become this morning's front page heroes.

I think you might have your head in the sand. The English national teams supporters are involved in trouble wherever they turn up with the obvious exception being Russia 2018. It doesn't surprise me at all that in the post Brexit era there are now sinister racial undertones in their thuggery.

This might be a small minority of thugs amongst the English fans, but they are enabled by the majority that appear to tolerate them within their ranks.

[Callum_62]

No idea what makes these folk think racist abuse is OK. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210712/44f37acbf63559cee248bb6f470f8cf7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210712/d58002c4fcfbcbded518317d76ed0243.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210712/17925cf7b0702f2696e7fdedbf4feb21.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210712/35627dabca834804f5f4d81e2c3a0ba5.jpg

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[CropleyWasGod]

It's a toadying prayer on behalf of the monarch, rather than an anthem that unifies the "Nation" and contains an actively divisive final verse (that is no longer used and was, obviously, of its period in history).

Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring
May he sedition hush
And like a torrent rush
Rebellious Scots to crush
God save the King

It's been said often enough, but that's not the official version. It was a satirical take on it in a London journal

.http://www.aforceforgood.org.uk/precious/anthem1

[He's here!]

It's a toadying prayer on behalf of the monarch, rather than an anthem that unifies the "Nation" and contains an actively divisive final verse (that is no longer used and was, obviously, of its period in history).

Lord grant that Marshal Wade
May by thy mighty aid
Victory bring
May he sedition hush
And like a torrent rush
Rebellious Scots to crush
God save the King

That was never really part of the anthem. It was made up by a magazine.

Of course Flower of Scotland (unofficial as it may be) contains no confrontational lyrics whatsoever 😉

My gripe with both is not really the lyrics tho, it's that they're both awful dirges.

[He's here!]

It's been said often enough, but that's not the official version. It was a satirical take on it in a London journal

.http://www.aforceforgood.org.uk/precious/anthem1

Just posted similar. One of those myths too often presented as fact.

[Radium]

That was never really part of the anthem. It was made up by a magazine.

Of course Flower of Scotland (unofficial as it may be) contains no confrontational lyrics whatsoever [emoji6]

My gripe with both is not really the lyrics tho, it's that they're both awful dirges.

Straying into holy ground territory but the excuse that it was only a bit of a joke in a magazine is disingenuous.

In the optics of the day, Jocks getting put in their place at a time when Home Rule was on the agenda. The Scottish Office was formed about a decade later to placate those desires.

Not as if a magazine would be used like that in modern times

https://www.businessinsider.com/boris-johnson-published-poem-friendly-fire-james-michie-extermination-of-scottish-people-2019-6?amp


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[Pretty Boy]

It's the de jure anthem of the UK.

But I think you have it the wrong way round, it used to be played for all UK teams, but Us/Wales have moved on and England are left with it. Do NI still use it as well? Not exactly inclusive for them.

Linfield, sorry I mean the IFA, still use it.

Then they wonder why kids from traditionally nationalist communities would rather support the ROI.

[Since90+2]

Gareth Southgate said in the press conference that the digital team have said the majority of the racist tweets are from accounts abroad (but not all of them).

I'm not sure if that's a hint towards another state doing it rather than just English fans based abroad.

[hibsbollah]

No idea what makes these folk think racist abuse is OK. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210712/44f37acbf63559cee248bb6f470f8cf7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210712/d58002c4fcfbcbded518317d76ed0243.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210712/17925cf7b0702f2696e7fdedbf4feb21.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210712/35627dabca834804f5f4d81e2c3a0ba5.jpg

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I’m reminded of Claude Rains in Casablanca when Bogart asks him on what grounds he’s shutting down Ricks Café; ‘I’m shocked, shocked! To hear there’s been gambling going on here in this cafe!’ The roulette guy ‘Here’s your winnings sir’, Rains ‘Oh yes, thank you’ (quickly walks off stage carrying his chips)

[Smartie]

Gareth Southgate said in the press conference that the digital team have said the majority of the racist tweets are from accounts abroad (but not all of them).

I'm not sure if that's a hint towards another state doing it rather than just English fans based abroad.

I think it’s a sign that a nation who need to own a problem and deal with it are only interested in continuing to deflect.

Boris - for all his faults and obvious role played in setting the tone - was making the right noises this morning.

[Tyler Durden]

I think it’s a sign that a nation who need to own a problem and deal with it are only interested in continuing to deflect.

Boris - for all his faults and obvious role played in setting the tone - was making the right noises this morning.

Not really. He said the culprits "should be ashamed of themselves". How about... should be charged given they are guilty of criminal racist abuse?

Johnson is tone deaf as ever and emerges with zero credit. Gary Neville spot on in his assessment this morning.

[Dashing Bob S]

England were a decent well organized side built from the back. But that’s all they were. They will never have a better chance to win a tournament, home advantage, the kindest draw possible. They were quite impressive, I thought, against Croatia, Czech are and Ukraine, but average in the other games and outplayed in the final. Yes, Southgate seems a decent man and his players stand out by being virtue of real human beings rather than the in bred mutants their educational and political system has perversely thrown up to rule the country. But let’s take a little step backwards from all the hype. They just weren't that good and bottled it into the bargain.

[He's here!]

I think you might have your head in the sand. The English national teams supporters are involved in trouble wherever they turn up with the obvious exception being Russia 2018. It doesn't surprise me at all that in the post Brexit era there are now sinister racial undertones in their thuggery.

This might be a small minority of thugs amongst the English fans, but they are enabled by the majority that appear to tolerate them within their ranks.

I think that's a stretch to say ordinary England fans enable the hooligans. The vast majority are just doing what ordinary football fans do, supporting their team without any inclination towards violence or racist abuse and will be just as disgusted with that sort of behaviour as any reasonable person. Unless you can handle yourself it's not exactly advisable to try and confront or reason with thugs bent on violence - and that applies to all walks of life.

[Smartie]

Not really. He said the culprits "should be ashamed of themselves". How about... should be charged given they are guilty of criminal racist abuse?

Johnson is tone deaf as ever and emerges with zero credit. Gary Neville spot on in his assessment this morning.

Fair points - but I still think that condemning and stressing that folk “should feel ashamed” is still a few levels above launching a conspiracy theory that blames Johnny Foreigner again, which is abhorrent.

[One Day Soon]

I think you might have your head in the sand. The English national teams supporters are involved in trouble wherever they turn up with the obvious exception being Russia 2018. It doesn't surprise me at all that in the post Brexit era there are now sinister racial undertones in their thuggery.

This might be a small minority of thugs amongst the English fans, but they are enabled by the majority that appear to tolerate them within their ranks.

Which is of course exactly what happens here in Scotland with football related sectarianism. Except here none of our Lineker equivalents has the balls to make an issue of it and call it out.

[One Day Soon]

Gareth Southgate said in the press conference that the digital team have said the majority of the racist tweets are from accounts abroad (but not all of them).

I'm not sure if that's a hint towards another state doing it rather than just English fans based abroad.

Wouldn't surprise me at all. Its a bloody effective and cheap way to help foment division in another country.

[JeMeSouviens]

Which is of course exactly what happens here in Scotland with football related sectarianism. Except here none of our Lineker equivalents has the balls to make an issue of it and call it out.

Graeme Speirs? Pretty vocal about the old and new Huns. Now posted missing from any tv or radio gigs right enough. Sure it's just coincidence. :rolleyes:

Michael Stewart probably going to go the same way.

[Callum_62]

Leyton orient have already issued a banning order to a supporter after racist abuse from yesterday

I assuming here that they are English based

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[Pretty Boy]

Graeme Speirs? Pretty vocal about the old and new Huns. Now posted missing from any tv or radio gigs right enough. Sure it's just coincidence. :rolleyes:

Michael Stewart probably going to go the same way.

See also Jim Spence.

[CropleyWasGod]

Jo Swinson nails it.

https://twitter.com/joswinson/status/1414337291443707920?s=19

😂😂😂

[bringbackbenny]

Graeme Speirs? Pretty vocal about the old and new Huns. Now posted missing from any tv or radio gigs right enough. Sure it's just coincidence. :rolleyes:

Michael Stewart probably going to go the same way.

iirc Jim Spence also no longer on the BBC? :hmmm:

[One Day Soon]

Graeme Speirs? Pretty vocal about the old and new Huns. Now posted missing from any tv or radio gigs right enough. Sure it's just coincidence. :rolleyes:

Michael Stewart probably going to go the same way.


Speirs grew unable to stomach what he was seeing and hearing at the club he supported and said so then moved on. Mikey Stewart is hardly a major figure.

We're pretty comfortable tolerating and turning a blind eye and ear to the sectarianism as clubs, as footballing authorities and as a government. Otherwise we'd being doing something concrete about it. There's no Scottish Lineker equivalent figure in the social media age calling out sectarian fans in the way he is the racist fans. Scotland isn't exceptional here.

[One Day Soon]

iirc Jim Spence also no longer on the BBC? :hmmm:

Spence himself says he left the BBC due to his description of the old and new Rangers clubs. I think he actually referred to the club that died on air.

[Smartie]

Speirs grew unable to stomach what he was seeing and hearing at the club he supported and said so then moved on. Mikey Stewart is hardly a major figure.

We're pretty comfortable tolerating and turning a blind eye and ear to the sectarianism as clubs, as footballing authorities and as a government. Otherwise we'd being doing something concrete about it. There's no Scottish Lineker equivalent figure in the social media age calling out sectarian fans in the way he is the racist fans. Scotland isn't exceptional here.

Whilst I think you have a point here, there is no shortage of fans who are sick of sectarianism and it is a national disgrace that those who highlight it find themselves sidelined.

There are also a good few of us who are becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the role our own club play in the ongoing problem.

Ultimately though, your argument boils down to whataboutery - There has long been an issue in England, it exists to this day, and it needs tackled rather than swept under the carpet.

Many English people would agree and decent people are let down by the ongoing association.

[Tyler Durden]

Fair points - but I still think that condemning and stressing that folk “should feel ashamed” is still a few levels above launching a conspiracy theory that blames Johnny Foreigner again, which is abhorrent.

Yeah that seems a strange claim, if that is what Southgate has said. He hasn't previously been guilty of downplaying the issue, so not sure why he would now. Albeit he is potentially just passing on the information he's been given.

[One Day Soon]

Whilst I think you have a point here, there is no shortage of fans who are sick of sectarianism and it is a national disgrace that those who highlight it find themselves sidelined.

There are also a good few of us who are becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the role our own club play in the ongoing problem.

Ultimately though, your argument boils down to whataboutery - There has long been an issue in England, it exists to this day, and it needs tackled rather than swept under the carpet.

Many English people would agree and decent people are let down by the ongoing association.


It is not whataboutery because I am absolutely crystal clear that there is a racism problem in English football - actually I think it persists here too - that needs to be called out and cleaned up. I'm simply pointing out that we are also far from angels in respect of Scottish football regarding sectarianism in particular.

[hibsbollah]

Whilst I think you have a point here, there is no shortage of fans who are sick of sectarianism and it is a national disgrace that those who highlight it find themselves sidelined.

There are also a good few of us who are becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the role our own club play in the ongoing problem.

Ultimately though, your argument boils down to whataboutery - There has long been an issue in England, it exists to this day, and it needs tackled rather than swept under the carpet.

Many English people would agree and decent people are let down by the ongoing association.

:agree: It’s not exactly news that the England national support is a rallying point for far right sentiment and folk that want a scrap, we’ve known that since the 70s and 80s, through Heysel, the European ban, the Dublin riot, it’s never actually gone away despite changes to the grounds themselves. Sectarianism in Scottish football is more a reality simmering under the surface of the game, it’s completely different in how it manifests itself, it’s not causing anywhere near the levels of street violence that follows the England team around, I’m not even sure why it’s even brought into the conversation.

[JeMeSouviens]

Whilst I think you have a point here, there is no shortage of fans who are sick of sectarianism and it is a national disgrace that those who highlight it find themselves sidelined.

There are also a good few of us who are becoming increasingly uncomfortable with the role our own club play in the ongoing problem.

Ultimately though, your argument boils down to whataboutery - There has long been an issue in England, it exists to this day, and it needs tackled rather than swept under the carpet.

Many English people would agree and decent people are let down by the ongoing association.

It's no coincidence either that the source of 95%+ of our sectarianism problem comes from a club imbued with the same Imperial-nostalgia-triumphalism fetish that runs right through the nasty section of the England support. In fact, it's really not stretching things to say that they are just 2 slightly different manifestations of the same thing.

[hibsbollah]

Yeah that seems a strange claim, if that is what Southgate has said. He hasn't previously been guilty of downplaying the issue, so not sure why he would now. Albeit he is potentially just passing on the information he's been given.

So Putin did it and ran away :dunno: Maybe he did.

But Putin didn’t scrawl ****** on the Rashford mural, he didn’t get thousands of England fans to boo the knee, and he’s not responsible for England fans having the deserved rep they do.

[Hibrandenburg]

Gareth Southgate said in the press conference that the digital team have said the majority of the racist tweets are from accounts abroad (but not all of them).

I'm not sure if that's a hint towards another state doing it rather than just English fans based abroad.

Or VPNs are being used.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Interesting. By my calculations we ended up the third worst team in the tournament. So there’s something to say about the rankings.

We only bettered Macedonia (0 points) and Turkey (0 points). Poland finished on 1, but had a better goal difference.

Socks need pulling up if we want to have a sniff of Qatar.

I said at the time, not beating Austria at home and Israel away pretty much has ended our qualification campaign.

I hope I’m wrong.

J

indeed :agree: we're battling it out with Israel for 3rd spot and in the last three games against them they've either matched us or been the better side, but still....we got one more point at the Euros than i predicted we would :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

Which is of course exactly what happens here in Scotland with football related sectarianism. Except here none of our Lineker equivalents has the balls to make an issue of it and call it out.

I won't argue with that.

[weecounty hibby]

:agree: It’s not exactly news that the England national support is a rallying point for far right sentiment and folk that want a scrap, we’ve known that since the 70s and 80s, through Heysel, the European ban, the Dublin riot, it’s never actually gone away despite changes to the grounds themselves. Sectarianism in Scottish football is more a reality simmering under the surface of the game, it’s completely different in how it manifests itself, it’s not causing anywhere near the levels of street violence that follows the England team around, I’m not even sure why it’s even brought into the conversation.
I'm not sure that in Scotland we can talk about one without discussing the other. It really is scotlands shame that the anti Catholic and anti Irish racism, not sectarianism because that again takes away from the argument imo, is tolerated by the msm, the sfa and the spfl and to a lesser degree politicians. And I saybthis as neither Catholic nor having Irish ancestry. It is racism, just a different kind of racism. The hate crimes bill and the legislation around behaviour at football matches was an attempt to help, maybe a clumsy one, but it was designed to help. Sadly people decided for various reasons that these were in some way designed to take away the majorities liberties rather than the minorities hatred. We need to start with the orange marches and ban them, same with the republican ones. Just ban them, they have no place in a 21st century, forward thinking, inclusive country. Can you imagine if the KKK asked to have a march through our biggest towns and cities?
I am glad that England lost last night but am heart sorry for the players who have been subjected to the disgusting abuse they have. I really hope prosecutions follow.
Probably a bit of a rambling post and maybe doesn't come across as well as it does in my head

[calumhibee1]

Seen something online urging people to click on the pages of people posting the racist comments and if their employer is on it then contact the employer.

Losing their job will be a much bigger blow than a suspended Twitter account etc.

[superfurryhibby]

I've just had the misfortune to cast eyes on some videos from Wembley from yesterday. Holy ****, it was unbelievable. Smashing their way and fighting Italian fans after the game (never mind the trouble throughout the day). Eufa will surely take action against the England side. If that was a club side they would be facing severe sanctions.

[Hibrandenburg]

I've just had the misfortune to cast eyes on some videos from Wembley from yesterday. Holy ****, it was unbelievable. Smashing their way and fighting Italian fans after the game (never mind the trouble throughout the day). Eufa will surely take action against the England side. If that was a club side they would be facing severe sanctions.

A 55 year ban sounds fair :wink:

[ronaldo7]

I've just had the misfortune to cast eyes on some videos from Wembley from yesterday. Holy ****, it was unbelievable. Smashing their way and fighting Italian fans after the game (never mind the trouble throughout the day). Eufa will surely take action against the England side. If that was a club side they would be facing severe sanctions.

They'll be a stick on for world cup 2030.

[Lago]

:top marks
Good post. I actually feared Scotland would lose all three games so as you say a point against England was welcome. Most of us would admit that we're a long way off the pace though and I think we need to qualify 'properly' for a tournament before we can say we're on the right track. We got to the Euros via a relatively unchallenging back door method which didn't sit easy with me and tended to get a bit glossed over amid the hype around us actually being at a tournament for a change.

I think it's harsh to find too much fault with Southgate's tactics. A World Cup semi-final and a Euro final in his first two tournaments in charge shows he's doing something very right and personally I think he and his team can only improve. Like you, I really felt for the young guys last night. Such fine margins as they say and I find it hard to see how anyone could take genuine pleasure in their misfortune. I spotted the front page of the National earlier and while I guess it's meant to be light-hearted it still comes across as a bit infantile and narrow-minded.

[Tyler Durden]

All I can find is a comment from Southgate that "some of it has come from abroad... but not all of it".

Hardly trying to shift the blame here, it's a minor comment in a pretty comprehensive response where he's calling for unity etc. Don't think it's fair to accuse Southgate of deflection here.

[SHODAN]

Jo Swinson nails it.

https://twitter.com/joswinson/status/1414337291443707920?s=19

😂😂😂

If you scroll her feed there's a fair few tweets supporting England but not a single one about her home nation. Bizarre.

[mal]

It's been said often enough, but that's not the official version. It was a satirical take on it in a London journal

.http://www.aforceforgood.org.uk/precious/anthem1

Apologies for repeating misinformation. I appreciate the correction.

[SteveHFC]

https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1414573685042728964?s=20

Hero.

[hibee316]

I've just had the misfortune to cast eyes on some videos from Wembley from yesterday. Holy ****, it was unbelievable. Smashing their way and fighting Italian fans after the game (never mind the trouble throughout the day). Eufa will surely take action against the England side. If that was a club side they would be facing severe sanctions.

What video did you see?

I just watched one and someone suggested this was people kicking and punching folk who were breaking into the stadium. When you look closer a lot of the folk running through the door are wearing England tops.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RIWills/status/1414380837169205250

For instance, the guy on the floor is immediately led back out.

[SHODAN]

This has killed the chances of a 2030 World Cup bid. Cheers guys.

[Tyler Durden]

What video did you see?

I just watched one and someone suggested this was people kicking and punching folk who were breaking into the stadium. When you look closer a lot of the folk running through the door are wearing England tops.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RIWills/status/1414380837169205250

For instance, the guy on the floor is immediately led back out.

Yeah it's ticketless England fans breaking in.

[JeMeSouviens]

This has killed the chances of a 2030 World Cup bid. Cheers guys.

Hardly. FIFA will go wherever the brown envelopes are biggest. The UK probably has the ideal government in that sense. :rolleyes:

[DH1875]

Saw a video of Italian fans getting a kicking inside Wembley on the concourse. One of them is on the deck screaming and 4/5 guys just continue to volley into him.

*The guys being attacked are speaking Italian and some wearing Italy shirts.

[hibee316]

Saw a video of Italian fans getting a kicking inside Wembley on the concourse. One of them is on the deck screaming and 4/5 guys just continue to volley into him.

*The guys being attacked are speaking Italian and some wearing Italy shirts.

Is thus the video I linked to or is there another one?

[One Day Soon]

It's no coincidence either that the source of 95%+ of our sectarianism problem comes from a club imbued with the same Imperial-nostalgia-triumphalism fetish that runs right through the nasty section of the England support. In fact, it's really not stretching things to say that they are just 2 slightly different manifestations of the same thing.


If you think the sectarianism doesn't run deep on the other side of the Ugly Sisters I'm afraid we will have to differ. They put a different face on it but its there.

[One Day Soon]

:agree: It’s not exactly news that the England national support is a rallying point for far right sentiment and folk that want a scrap, we’ve known that since the 70s and 80s, through Heysel, the European ban, the Dublin riot, it’s never actually gone away despite changes to the grounds themselves. Sectarianism in Scottish football is more a reality simmering under the surface of the game, it’s completely different in how it manifests itself, it’s not causing anywhere near the levels of street violence that follows the England team around, I’m not even sure why it’s even brought into the conversation.


No, none of that is news. My point is that football has had a pass for a very long time in tolerating - even encouraging - some of the most extreme and objectionable views and behaviours in society and not just in one country.

I find it difficult to experience the revulsion over the grotesque racism we are seeing played out in relation to Rashford and the others without reflecting on our own institutionalised problem. That sectarian cancer is, quite apart from anything else, why we have two clubs which routinely dominate our game. All the others have a defined geographical strength, these two alone attract support from all across Scotland and its not because people like the strip colours. It has literally shaped our game.

England's problem is different and no less abhorrent. But for the first time the courage of Southgate as manager - and people like Lineker in very prominent public positions - in calling it out and articulating a different view of what the England team should be about has given a voice to that part of the England support which I think is in the majority but which has somehow previously not been regarded as 'real football fans'. I think all this has put the racist **** on the back foot and that though it will be a long slow journey the momentum here is going to be in one direction. The multi-racial multi-cultural England team with the confidence to say so is a genie that's not going back in the bottle or afraid any longer to speak its own name.

[Joe6-2]

Turned on the news this morning and of course expected to hear a bit of reaction to the Italian victory.
But it has been wall to wall coverage and appears to be a desperate attempt to salvage the whole thing as a glorious English achievement against a cheating, hatchet wielding, bunch of Italians.
You would think there was nothing else happening in the world???

Just so so grateful they didn’t win

[Hibernia&Alba]

Italy were the better team and deserved to win, IMHO. England had an excellent tournament and can be proud of themselves. I still think Southgate got it wrong to send Saka up for the last penalty. Not fair on the laddie.

[Liberal Hibby]

Interesting reading material for the Italian team on the plane home: https://twitter.com/rosscolquhoun/status/1414573685042728964?s=20

[Kato]

No, none of that is news. My point is that football has had a pass for a very long time in tolerating - even encouraging - some of the most extreme and objectionable views and behaviours in society and not just in one country.

I find it difficult to experience the revulsion over the grotesque racism we are seeing played out in relation to Rashford and the others without reflecting on our own institutionalised problem. That sectarian cancer is, quite apart from anything else, why we have two clubs which routinely dominate our game. All the others have a defined geographical strength, these two alone attract support from all across Scotland and its not because people like the strip colours. It has literally shaped our game.

England's problem is different and no less abhorrent. But for the first time the courage of Southgate as manager - and people like Lineker in very prominent public positions - in calling it out and articulating a different view of what the England team should be about has given a voice to that part of the England support which I think is in the majority but which has somehow previously not been regarded as 'real football fans'. I think all this has put the racist **** on the back foot and that though it will be a long slow journey the momentum here is going to be in one direction. The multi-racial multi-cultural England team with the confidence to say so is a genie that's not going back in the bottle or afraid any longer to speak its own name.Like that post.

Sent from my SM-A405FN using Tapatalk

[DH1875]

Is thus the video I linked to or is there another one?

I don't know, can't get your video to play for some reason. Don't think so though as wasn't a big clown at the start of one I seen.

[superfurryhibby]

What video did you see?

I just watched one and someone suggested this was people kicking and punching folk who were breaking into the stadium. When you look closer a lot of the folk running through the door are wearing England tops.

https://mobile.twitter.com/RIWills/status/1414380837169205250

For instance, the guy on the floor is immediately led back out.

It was a series of videos on a facebook post. It showed Italian fans having the **** kicked out of them as they left the stadium, not a police officer in sight (that included the nice one of a grown man swiping at a young teenager), then there were various clips of fans forcing their way in to the stadium. One had italian fans penned in an area with England fans trying to get in and the other with England fans fighting as stewards tried to stop them. In all of them the Police were not visible. I stopped after that, but there were others.

[One Day Soon]

Italy were the better team and deserved to win, IMHO. England had an excellent tournament and can be proud of themselves. I still think Southgate got it wrong to send Saka up for the last penalty. Not fair on the laddie.


Strongly agree about Saka in particular. I also think Southgate, while differing from previous England managers in so many respects, fell into their age old trap. Just way, way too cautious minded. I couldn't believe he started with Trippier.

[hibee316]

It was a series of videos on a facebook post. It showed Italian fans having the **** kicked out of them as they left the stadium, not a police officer in sight (that included the nice one of a grown man swiping at a young teenager), then there were various clips of fans forcing their way in to the stadium. One had italian fans penned in an area with England fans trying to get in and the other with England fans fighting as stewards tried to stop them. In all of them the Police were not visible. I stopped after that, but there were others.

The one I've linked is the only one I've found.

Same one here;
https://mobile.twitter.com/Am_DeJa_Vu
Look at the pinned tweet.

Do you have a link to the other one?

[JimBHibees]

Strongly agree about Saka in particular. I also think Southgate, while differing from previous England managers in so many respects, fell into their age old trap. Just way, way too cautious minded. I couldn't believe he started with Trippier.

Found it incredible the gamble to bring in the two penalty takers so late. Also make England very susceptible to the late corner with Henderson and Walker off he would have been crucified if Italy scored from that.

Also seen a lot of English comment around him playing it very similar to the Croatia semi final, score early and sit on it.

[CloudSquall]

The one I've linked is the only one I've found.

Same one here;
https://mobile.twitter.com/Am_DeJa_Vu
Look at the pinned tweet.

Do you have a link to the other one?


That's ticketed English fans vs non-ticketed English fans, when they lack opposing fans to fight they immediately turn on themselves:greengrin

[mcohibs]

The one I've linked is the only one I've found.

Same one here;
https://mobile.twitter.com/Am_DeJa_Vu
Look at the pinned tweet.

Do you have a link to the other one?

England fans versus England fans there. I haven't seen any real footage of England fans attacking Italian fans.

Not saying it didn't happen, just that any videos claiming to show it have all shown the ticketless idiots breaking into the ground and getting set about by their own fans (idiots in equal measure).

[JohnMcM]

England penalty takers training video.

https://mobile.twitter.com/andrewgpoole/status/1414348074848329731

[JeMeSouviens]

If you think the sectarianism doesn't run deep on the other side of the Ugly Sisters I'm afraid we will have to differ. They put a different face on it but its there.

There's a nuanced discussion to be had there, for sure. :greengrin

Some of the Celtc freedom fighting pro-IRA stuff is deep cringe but there isn't a history of systemic anti-Protestant discrimination by Catholics over centuries like there is vice versa. The Huns not only do anti-Catholic stuff btw, they are happy to throw in other forms of racism when given the chance, and they share large sections of the England far-right songbook. German bombers, Dambusters etc. Plus they have the same perma-raging mentality. Britannia just doesn't rule much nowadays, it gets to them. :dunno:

[Pretty Boy]

I've no idea how sizeable a minority of a England fans are racists, xenophobes, homophobes, general ********s. It's a shame, whilst being entirely correct, that their behaviour and the condemnation of it is dominating the discussion today.

I watched the game with a mixed group of Scots and English and whilst there was a bit of banter it was all good natured and no one present had any superiority complex nor felt the need to swing punches or make racist remarks. Throughout the day I saw loads of footage of families having a great day enjoying the occasion and the atmosphere. There were people from a broad spectrum of backgrounds involved in that. Equally throughout the tournament the attempts to boo the taking of the knee were largely drowned out by applause or other showing of support.

I don't know how you deal with that toxic element that feels empowered by the rhetoric from large sections of the press and government these days. Ultimately any blanket sanctions are going to hurt hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of decent, law abiding and respectful England fans. The perpetrators of racism towards their own probably won't care, they'll vent the anger and frustration at their own sad lives in another way.

It's shame that what was an outstanding tournament in so many ways on and off the park has been sullied by the behaviour of selfish morons. London is such a great city for hosting events like this and Wembley is a stage that players want to play on. It's sad and infuriating that some people seem determined to spoil that.

[Since452]

Grealish was a big disappointment in this tournament for me. Not all his doing but the crowd and commentators went bananas every time he was getting ready to come on and he did the square root of **** all when he did. Looked cool with his socks rolled down though...

[Since452]

Found it incredible the gamble to bring in the two penalty takers so late. Also make England very susceptible to the late corner with Henderson and Walker off he would have been crucified if Italy scored from that.

Also seen a lot of English comment around him playing it very similar to the Croatia semi final, score early and sit on it.

Personally wouldn't have made the changes but fine margin and all that. If they'd won the lottery of penalties then Southgate would probably be getting hailed as a hero and heading along to meet the queen for a knighthood.

[calumhibee1]

Grealish was a big disappointment in this tournament for me. Not all his doing but the crowd and commentators went bananas every time he was getting ready to come on and he did the square root of **** all when he did. Looked cool with his socks rolled down though...

Agree. I can’t remember what game it was but he played a pass to Sterling who crossed it in for a goal. They were that desperate to big him up that they were declaring he’d assisted a goal within 5 mins or so of coming on etc.

I don’t get the hype with him at all. No doubting he’s a good player but nothing like the one he’s made out to be.

[Mikey_1875]

Think it’s a bit harsh on Grealish. 2 assists in less than two 90 minutes total game time isn’t bad going at all. Felt he could have been brought on a lot earlier in some games and was certainly more effective than most of his competitors in that role (Sterling and arguably Saka aside). He isn’t going to stand out as much in the England side as he does at Villa but I certainly think he is a top class player who makes things happen in games.

[Hibbyradge]

Grealish was a big disappointment in this tournament for me. Not all his doing but the crowd and commentators went bananas every time he was getting ready to come on and he did the square root of **** all when he did. Looked cool with his socks rolled down though...

He made the pass for Kane's goal against Germany and was involved in the first. He was the spark that gave them the victory.

[Sir David Gray]

This has killed the chances of a 2030 World Cup bid. Cheers guys.

Next year's hosts have a government with one of the worst human rights records and one of the most repressive legal systems in the world - I'm sure England will be OK as long as the goverment's prepared to pay FIFA enough.

[hibsbollah]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jul/12/england-the-country-not-the-football-team-needs-to-take-a-look-at-itself

Good article

[CapitalGreen]

Grealish was a big disappointment in this tournament for me. Not all his doing but the crowd and commentators went bananas every time he was getting ready to come on and he did the square root of **** all when he did. Looked cool with his socks rolled down though...

I’m guessing you slept through the Germany game.

[mcohibs]

Grealish was a big disappointment in this tournament for me. Not all his doing but the crowd and commentators went bananas every time he was getting ready to come on and he did the square root of **** all when he did. Looked cool with his socks rolled down though...

Literally changed the game when he came on against Germany

[jacomo]

England were a decent well organized side built from the back. But that’s all they were. They will never have a better chance to win a tournament, home advantage, the kindest draw possible. They were quite impressive, I thought, against Croatia, Czech are and Ukraine, but average in the other games and outplayed in the final. Yes, Southgate seems a decent man and his players stand out by being virtue of real human beings rather than the in bred mutants their educational and political system has perversely thrown up to rule the country. But let’s take a little step backwards from all the hype. They just weren't that good and bottled it into the bargain.


Many English are consoling themselves with the notion of progress. Losing semi finalists in the last World Cup, losing finalists here… you get the logic.

But they have missed a golden opportunity for a trophy here. They might not get one like it again.

[Iggy Pope]

I’m guessing you slept through the Germany game.

The manic hysteria that greets his arrival leads me to think perhaps everyone on earth did except the coaching staff that keep him stuck firmly on the bench. Every game.
He’s a bit of a poster boy isn’t he?

[Since452]

Many English are consoling themselves with the notion of progress. Losing semi finalists in the last World Cup, losing finalists here… you get the logic.

But they have missed a golden opportunity for a trophy here. They might not get one like it again.

They are also consoling themselves that this has set them up nicely for Qatar. England won't be winning the world cup. It might take a few days to sink in but when it does they'll realise they've blown a chance of a lifetime to win something. A tournament played in their back garden against teams you'd expect them to beat nine times out of ten. They were the top ranked team in the final. If Scotland lost in the same circumstances I'd be inconsolable. You could easily argue that England failed.

[Hibrandenburg]

The manic hysteria that greets his arrival leads me to think perhaps everyone on earth did except the coaching staff that keep him stuck firmly on the bench. Every game.
He’s a bit of a poster boy isn’t he?

He's ***** without SJM.

[Iggy Pope]

They are also consoling themselves that this has set them up nicely for Qatar. England won't be winning the world cup. It might take a few days to sink in but when it does they'll realise they've blown a chance of a lifetime to win something. A tournament played in their back garden against teams you'd expect them to beat nine times out of ten. They were the top ranked team in the final. If Scotland lost in the same circumstances I'd be inconsolable. You could easily argue that England failed.

I’d agree until you brought Scotland’s abject failure into it, two group games at home and still no qualification at what is it now, 8 tournaments? Bog awful and outdone by every other home nation.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k_BAqsuYC1I


it's a catchy tune :)

[JimBHibees]

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2021/jul/12/england-the-country-not-the-football-team-needs-to-take-a-look-at-itself

Good article

Excellent article

[He's here!]

They are also consoling themselves that this has set them up nicely for Qatar. England won't be winning the world cup. It might take a few days to sink in but when it does they'll realise they've blown a chance of a lifetime to win something. A tournament played in their back garden against teams you'd expect them to beat nine times out of ten. They were the top ranked team in the final. If Scotland lost in the same circumstances I'd be inconsolable. You could easily argue that England failed.

:hilarious If Scotland lost in the same circumstances I'd think I was dreaming.

I think it's you who is consoling yourself with this version of events. England did very well. They've got a great squad and will get better. Might not win the World Cup but the way things are shaping up we won't even qualify for it.

[CloudSquall]

:hilarious If Scotland lost in the same circumstances I'd think I was dreaming.

I think it's you who is consoling yourself with this version of events. England did very well. They've got a great squad and will get better. Might not win the World Cup but the way things are shaping up we won't even qualify for it.

Its jockholm syndrome like this that has me glad to be I Argentina, cringe levels beyond belief.

[Bristolhibby]

Something that struck me in the Kasper Schmeichel “has it ever come home” interview is he said “we are a country of 5.5 million”.

Why are Denmark so good and Scotland comparatively so bad? Same population, but Denmark are regulars in Competitions. We get to one every 23 years.

J

[calumhibee1]

Something that struck me in the Kasper Schmeichel “has it ever come home” interview is he said “we are a country of 5.5 million”.

Why are Denmark so good and Scotland comparatively so bad? Same population, but Denmark are regulars in Competitions. We get to one every 23 years.

J

Croatia have similar and Uruguay only have about 2.5m as well.

[hibee316]

Something that struck me in the Kasper Schmeichel “has it ever come home” interview is he said “we are a country of 5.5 million”.

Why are Denmark so good and Scotland comparatively so bad? Same population, but Denmark are regulars in Competitions. We get to one every 23 years.

J

Starts from grass routes.

We make the kids play on huge pitches and instil in them the fact that they must win at all cost.

The kids who have grown the quickest always look better in this scenario so get more opportunities.

This then falls to pieces when the other kids catch up. We have loaded our youth system with players who grew quickly, but can't really play football very well. And in turn have lost a huge amount of players who were late developers.

We also have to get over this do anything to win at youth level. Youth football should have very little to do with winning, it should be about learning a well rounded skill set.

Invariably, there will be people here who think we should be building a "winning mentality", usually bringing up their own example of winning at youth level doing them no harm. Or that young players might not want to play if they don't win things.

Yet successful countries can see that this isn't true and isn't important.

And sadly, this is how the folk who run our game think. "Winning is the most important thing!" Might not be explicitly said by the coaches, but is endemic in the way kids are trained. And in turn, Scotland struggle to compete with countries who have seen past this.

[heretoday]

I feel sorry for the guys who missed the pens. For heavens sake, how could you not?

They are earning millions and yet................

[Crunchie]

Starts from grass routes.

We make the kids play on huge pitches and instil in them the fact that they must win at all cost.

The kids who have grown the quickest always look better in this scenario so get more opportunities.

This then falls to pieces when the other kids catch up. We have loaded our youth system with players who grew quickly, but can't really play football very well. And in turn have lost a huge amount of players who were late developers.

We also have to get over this do anything to win at youth level. Youth football should have very little to do with winning, it should be about learning a well rounded skill set.

Invariably, there will be people here who think we should be building a "winning mentality", usually bringing up their own example of winning at youth level doing them no harm. Or that young players might not want to play if they don't win things.

Yet successful countries can see that this isn't true and isn't important.

And sadly, this is how the folk who run our game think. "Winning is the most important thing!" Might not be explicitly said by the coaches, but is endemic in the way kids are trained. And in turn, Scotland struggle to compete with countries who have seen past this.
I think it's something more simple than that.

In our day you couldn't wait for school to finish to get out in the park with a football for a 10 HT 21 the winner game, and there were at least 2 before you were shouted in for tea.

Nowadays kids are more likely to be seen sauntering out of school head buried in a phone straight home to raid the fridge and up into their bedrooms for a game of football with their mates on the internet.

[Onion]

Something that struck me in the Kasper Schmeichel “has it ever come home” interview is he said “we are a country of 5.5 million”.

Why are Denmark so good and Scotland comparatively so bad? Same population, but Denmark are regulars in Competitions. We get to one every 23 years.

J

Genetics and lifestyle.

[Since90+2]

I think it's something more simple than that.

In our day you couldn't wait for school to finish to get out in the park with a football for a 10 HT 21 the winner game, and there were at least 2 before you were shouted in for tea.

Nowadays kids are more likely to be seen sauntering out of school head buried in a phone straight home to raid the fridge and up into their bedrooms for a game of football with their mates on the internet.

Is Scotland the only place where kids have their heads buried in phones and spend too long on the internet? Seems a bit of a simplistic argument that.

[Jones28]

Is Scotland the only place where kids have their heads buried in phones and spend too long on the internet? Seems a bit of a simplistic argument that.

Of course not, it's been the same argument used since the national teams quality dropped: kids are too busy watching tv/playing computer games/on the internet/on their phones.

It's blaming kids for the arguments outlined in a previous post about athleticism, size and winning coming before education and quality.

[One Day Soon]

I think it's something more simple than that.

In our day you couldn't wait for school to finish to get out in the park with a football for a 10 HT 21 the winner game, and there were at least 2 before you were shouted in for tea.

Nowadays kids are more likely to be seen sauntering out of school head buried in a phone straight home to raid the fridge and up into their bedrooms for a game of football with their mates on the internet.

You just described me from the age of about 8 to around 15. I lived every breathing moment to play football and when I wasn’t playing I was watching it, thinking about it or even reading about it.

[One Day Soon]

He's ***** without SJM.

I think that’s a bit unfair. He’s alright considering he’s Aston Villa’s second best player…

[hibee316]

I think it's something more simple than that.

In our day you couldn't wait for school to finish to get out in the park with a football for a 10 HT 21 the winner game, and there were at least 2 before you were shouted in for tea.

Nowadays kids are more likely to be seen sauntering out of school head buried in a phone straight home to raid the fridge and up into their bedrooms for a game of football with their mates on the internet.

No offense, but this is what is holding the country back. Not you obviously, but those in power are happy to fall back on arguments like this.

As someone else has said, do phones not exist in Denmark? How about in Wales? And in Ireland, who both have done much better than us over the decades.

All countries in Europe will face similar problems. Scotland needs to step up and deal with them.

(Again, this is not an attack on you, but the powers that be)

[He's here!]

I think it's something more simple than that.

In our day you couldn't wait for school to finish to get out in the park with a football for a 10 HT 21 the winner game, and there were at least 2 before you were shouted in for tea.

Nowadays kids are more likely to be seen sauntering out of school head buried in a phone straight home to raid the fridge and up into their bedrooms for a game of football with their mates on the internet.

And yet if you look at our qualication record it's not just the last 23 years where we've failed. We didn't qualify for a World Cup between 1958 and 1974 and failed to qualify for the Euros between 1968 and 1992. The 60s in particular were a decade which featured some of Scotland's most lauded players yet we were never at a major championship. Mobiles/video games certainly didn't exist then so how do we explain that? Those five consecutive World Cups between 1974 and 1990 almost look like a curious anomaly when set against our overall record.

[Bristolhibby]

I think it's something more simple than that.

In our day you couldn't wait for school to finish to get out in the park with a football for a 10 HT 21 the winner game, and there were at least 2 before you were shouted in for tea.

Nowadays kids are more likely to be seen sauntering out of school head buried in a phone straight home to raid the fridge and up into their bedrooms for a game of football with their mates on the internet.

Definitely a contributing factor, but I’ll counter saying don’t English kids do likewise? (I know my son does).

That said he plays at weekends and trains during the week. Same with rugby, so I’m not knocking him personally. I played a lot more informal football than him (out in the park with my mates). He plays much more structured sport than me, playing rugby and football at a club since he was 5. I didn’t join a rugby club until I was about 15.

Wonder what a Croat or Danish 12 year old does when they get home from school?

J

[MWHIBBIES]

I think it's something more simple than that.

In our day you couldn't wait for school to finish to get out in the park with a football for a 10 HT 21 the winner game, and there were at least 2 before you were shouted in for tea.

Nowadays kids are more likely to be seen sauntering out of school head buried in a phone straight home to raid the fridge and up into their bedrooms for a game of football with their mates on the internet.
Video games are as big if not bigger in scandanavian countries. A huge % of top players in esports are Danish and Swedish. Very naive to think that's the issue.

[Bristolhibby]

And yet if you look at our qualication record it's not just the last 23 years where we've failed. We didn't qualify for a World Cup between 1958 and 1974 and failed to qualify for the Euros between 1968 and 1992. The 60s in particular were a decade which featured some of Scotland's most lauded players yet we were never at a major championship. Mobiles/video games certainly didn't exist then so how do we explain that? Those five consecutive World Cups between 1974 and 1990 almost look like a curious anomaly when set against our overall record.

TBF didn’t those early Euros contain 4 teams? Hardly the spectacle of sport we have now. Two semis and a Final.

Euro 92 only had 8 teams! A miracle we got to that. That said there weren’t the multitude of Ex Soviet or Yugoslav or Czechoslovakian countries then.

That’s another point worth thinking about. There’s just more countries to slip up against. (Not that that bothers Croatia and Czech Republic, mind).

J

[superfurryhibby]

The one I've linked is the only one I've found.

Same one here;
https://mobile.twitter.com/Am_DeJa_Vu
Look at the pinned tweet.

Do you have a link to the other one?

Your link isn't working for me.

Like I already said, I saw a post on facebook which had a series of videos of trouble. It included one that other posters have already mentioned where **** batter fans leaving the stadium (including the one of a big fat bassa walloping a wee laddie).

Having just done a google search, there has obviously been a fair bit of purging of said clips, as there is SFA. However, I'm sure you'll find them if you're keen.

[Bristolhibby]

Genetics and lifestyle.

Lifestyle maybe I don’t buy genetics.

J

[hibee316]

Your link isn't working for me.

Like I already said, I saw a post on facebook which had a series of videos of trouble. It included one that other posters have already mentioned where **** batter fans leaving the stadium (including the one of a big fat bassa walloping a wee laddie).

Having just done a google search, there has obviously been a fair bit of purging of said clips, as there is SFA. However, I'm sure you'll find them if you're keen.

This one?

https://youtu.be/nqhJTzi1Tqo

https://youtu.be/nqhJTzi1Tqo

This is English fans attacking people trying to break into the stadium, yet widely advertised as being English fans attacking Italian fans.

I've honestly not seen anything else.

Not to say it hasn't happened, but have seen plenty things claiming the wrong thing.

[Bristolhibby]

Your link isn't working for me.

Like I already said, I saw a post on facebook which had a series of videos of trouble. It included one that other posters have already mentioned where **** batter fans leaving the stadium (including the one of a big fat bassa walloping a wee laddie).

Having just done a google search, there has obviously been a fair bit of purging of said clips, as there is SFA. However, I'm sure you'll find them if you're keen.

I’ve only seen the bald (they are always bald) bassa in the checked Aquascutum shirt handing out slaps like he’s in charge of security and his name is Brian Clough.

I’m sure he’ll be getting a chap at the door fairly soon.

Not his business to get involved. That’s the job of security staff. And certainly not sucker punching some teenager and kicking them in the head while they are down on the floor.

I genuinely believe they were miffed that they spurted out 2 grand for a ticket and these scallywags were getting in for free. (In reality the “payment” was a kick from some 50 year old who should grow the F up).

J

[superfurryhibby]

This one?

https://youtu.be/nqhJTzi1Tqo

https://youtu.be/nqhJTzi1Tqo

This is English fans attacking people trying to break into the stadium, yet widely advertised as being English fans attacking Italian fans.

I've honestly not seen anything else.

Not to say it hasn't happened, but have seen plenty things claiming the wrong thing.

TBF, that was one of the videos.

There were others though and they clearly showed Italian fans being attacked as they exited Wembley.

If you have searched via google then you'll know that there has been some significant censoring going on.

[Smartie]

Re Scotland and Denmark, I read this piece a few weeks back. It's quite interesting, I agree with most of it but find the conclusion slightly bizarre. I don't love the Glasgow media myself and I definitely think they have a role to play, but I'm not sure the lion's share of the blame lie with them.

From the POV of a Denmark-based Aberdeen fan.

https://thedandydons.com/what-does-danish-football-have-that-scottish-football-doesnt/

[BILLYHIBS]

Team of the Tournament:

Donnarumma
Walker
Bonucci
Maguire
Spinazzola
Hojbjerg
Jorgino
Pedri
Chiesa
Lakaku
Sterling

As selected by the UEFA team of technical observers

[hibsbollah]

Team of the Tournament:

Donnarumma
Walker
Bonucci
Maguire
Spinazzola
Hojbjerg
Jorgino
Pedri
Chiesa
Lakaku
Sterling

As selected by the UEFA team of technical observers

The Guardian had it very similar, put in Shaw for Spinnazola, Chiellini for Macguire, Phillips for Hojberg and Schick for Lukaku. I was surprised to see Kyle Walker being a consensus, i thought there were more influential players than him, Dumfries for one. But opinions are like ********s of course.

[Scouse Hibee]

Team of the Tournament:

Donnarumma
Walker
Bonucci
Maguire
Spinazzola
Hojbjerg
Jorgino
Pedri
Chiesa
Lakaku
Sterling

As selected by the UEFA team of technical observers

Pickford was the best keeper.

[BILLYHIBS]

Pickford was the best keeper.

You think?

Thought he looked dodgy

Donnarumma pour moi

[Scouse Hibee]

You think?

Thought he looked dodgy

Donnarumma pour moi

Yes by far the best keeper at the tournament.

[BILLYHIBS]

Yes by far the best keeper at the tournament.

In your opinion

[Scorrie]

Team of the Tournament:

Donnarumma
Walker
Bonucci
Maguire
Spinazzola
Hojbjerg
Jorgino
Pedri
Chiesa
Lakaku
Sterling

As selected by the UEFA team of technical observers

Can’t quite believe Chiellini isn’t in and Maguire is...

[Brightside]

Yes by far the best keeper at the tournament.

He's too short.

[Magpie]

Team of the Tournament:

Donnarumma
Walker
Bonucci
Maguire
Spinazzola
Hojbjerg
Jorgino
Pedri
Chiesa
Lakaku
Sterling

As selected by the UEFA team of technical observers

Ronaldo not in there as golden boot winner?

[CropleyWasGod]

The Guardian had it very similar, put in Shaw for Spinnazola, Chiellini for Macguire, Phillips for Hojberg and Schick for Lukaku. I was surprised to see Kyle Walker being a consensus, i thought there were more influential players than him, Dumfries for one. But opinions are like ********s of course.

I was very impressed with Walker.

He was very good at playing as an old-fashioned sweeper. Whenever England were caught on the break, he was the man to mop things up. His pace meant that he could cover all across the defence.

We didn't see too much of him in an attacking sense, unlike Dumfries, but I thought his defending was excellent.

[Scouse Hibee]

He's too short.

Didn’t affect his performance and clean sheets.

[Scouse Hibee]

In your opinion

And the stats.

[Smartie]

I was very impressed with Walker.

He was very good at playing as an old-fashioned sweeper. Whenever England were caught on the break, he was the man to mop things up. His pace meant that he could cover all across the defence.

We didn't see too much of him in an attacking sense, unlike Dumfries, but I thought his defending was excellent.

:agree:

I was surprised to see England fall out of the game in the second half to the extent that they did, but even then I though they might have a clean sheet in them.

The defence looked rock solid throughout the tournament and much of that was down to Walker. He had a superb tournament.

Bit of a shame because whilst a good few of the England players seem like great lads, he's an utter knob.

FWIW I also thought Pickford had a great tournament, not sure he was better than Donnarumma but then less was probably expected of Pickford (he's largely considered to be a weak link in that team whereas everyone knows the Italy keeper is World Class).

[hibsbollah]

I was very impressed with Walker.

He was very good at playing as an old-fashioned sweeper. Whenever England were caught on the break, he was the man to mop things up. His pace meant that he could cover all across the defence.

We didn't see too much of him in an attacking sense, unlike Dumfries, but I thought his defending was excellent.

It’s a fair point, I suppose depends whether you want a traditional full back or an attacking modern player bombing up and down, or a bit of both. I felt like Shaw contributed more from the other side in attacking positions this tournament, his crossing was excellent

[BILLYHIBS]

And the stats.
My guy named as the undisputed player of the tournament

I think that says it all don’t you? :greengrin

[Key West]

Shilton, Clemence, Seaman, Pickford nowhere near that standard for me, far too rash and inconsistent, some of his saves he didn't know anything about, opinions!

[Bristolhibby]

Pickford was the best keeper.

For pure goalie-ing it’s Kasper Schmeichel for me. Pickford had a very good defence in front of him. Some of Schmeichels saves in the Semi defied logic.

J

[Scouse Hibee]

My guy named as the undisputed player of the tournament

I think that says it all don’t you? :greengrin

Yes it says it all exactly!

[Scouse Hibee]

Shilton, Clemence, Seaman, Pickford nowhere near that standard for me, far too rash and inconsistent, some of his saves he didn't know anything about, opinions!

😂

[BILLYHIBS]

Yes it says it all exactly!
:thumbsup:

The poster pushing Schmeichel has a point

[Key West]

😂

More Joe Hart.😀

[CropleyWasGod]

Shilton, Clemence, Seaman, Pickford nowhere near that standard for me, far too rash and inconsistent, some of his saves he didn't know anything about, opinions!

I thought Pickford was great entertainment. His constant moaning, and falling out with his defence, was a soap opera in itself. Him vs Maguire was hysterical at times.

[Key West]

I thought Pickford was great entertainment. His constant moaning, and falling out with his defence, was a soap opera in itself. Him vs Maguire was hysterical at times.

Not as animated as Alan McGregor though!😂

[hibsbollah]

For pure goalie-ing it’s Kasper Schmeichel for me. Pickford had a very good defence in front of him. Some of Schmeichels saves in the Semi defied logic.

J

I think the mistake in the Finland game will have counted against him, despite the obvious mitigating circumstances. His distribution was ropier than normal as well. For me it was Donnarumma 1st and Pickford 2nd, then the always underrated Yann Sommer.

[Moulin Yarns]

Yes by far the best keeper at the tournament.

Don't think he's a keeper, maybe a one night stand😉

[Smartie]

I don't think I'd fancy Pickford over a season - he's got mistakes in him.

He has it in him to make decent saves, which he did, and I thought his decision making and execution with the ball at his feet was good ie he lumped it when it needed lumped, he played when he had time to play.

No doubt Pickford had a great tournament, Schmeichel is a decent shout but he had a bad mistake in his first game (maybe understandable his concentration was a bit off) but not much between those 3 for sure.



I'd say though that I feel like there's a bit of a dearth of top keepers right now. Not as many really good ones as there once was. Just look at some of the jokers Celtic have had playing for them, even when they were still winning everything.

[Moulin Yarns]

:thumbsup:

The poster pushing Scmeichel has a point

Foul ref???

[Key West]

Harry Maguire booted the ball out for a shy on 3 occasions under no pressure in the final, if I did that on a Sunday at pub level the moaning would be endless ( my level by the way).

[hibsbollah]

Harry Maguire booted the ball out for a shy on 3 occasions under no pressure in the final, if I did that on a Sunday at pub level the moaning would be endless ( my level by the way).

Could you have broken a net camera with a penalty like he did with 100s of millions watching though? :greengrin

[Key West]

Could you have broken a net camera with a penalty like he did with 100s of millions watching though? :greengrin

Great penalty.

[BILLYHIBS]

Harry Maguire booted the ball out for a shy on 3 occasions under no pressure in the final, if I did that on a Sunday at pub level the moaning would be endless ( my level by the way).
Spotted that

Poor

[He's here!]

He's too short.

Never an issue for Andy Goram.

I thought Pickford was excellent too. Everton's new Neville Southall.

[Scouse Hibee]

Never an issue for Andy Goram.

I thought Pickford was excellent too. Everton's new Neville Southall.

Nor was it an issue for Jim Leighton

[660]

Pickford was excellent and thoroughly deserves his European championship winners med……oh

[Northernhibee]

Pickford telling himself “no problem” then saving from one of the best penalty takers in the world in a cup final was ice cold tbf.

[SaulGoodman]

I think it's something more simple than that.

In our day you couldn't wait for school to finish to get out in the park with a football for a 10 HT 21 the winner game, and there were at least 2 before you were shouted in for tea.

Nowadays kids are more likely to be seen sauntering out of school head buried in a phone straight home to raid the fridge and up into their bedrooms for a game of football with their mates on the internet.

Technology bad.

[mcohibs]

I think it's something more simple than that.

In our day you couldn't wait for school to finish to get out in the park with a football for a 10 HT 21 the winner game, and there were at least 2 before you were shouted in for tea.

Nowadays kids are more likely to be seen sauntering out of school head buried in a phone straight home to raid the fridge and up into their bedrooms for a game of football with their mates on the internet.

Except an England team who all grew up in the 'Internet generation' have just taken their country further than they have in 55 years. And Scotland reached a first international tournament in a generation.

[superfurryhibby]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/euro-2020-random-attacks-on-italians-at-end-of-worst-ever-tournament-for-crime-police-say/ar-AAM73zO?ocid=entnewsntp


This gives some perspective on the scale of the violence associated with the final:

"England fans launched “random attacks on Italians” after the final of the Euro 2020 tournament, police have said.

Forces across the country are still collating figures on the number of incidents targeting supporters of Italy, who won the tournament on penalties.

More than 2,300 police incidents linked to the Euros have so far been recorded, surpassing the 2018 World Cup to make it the worst football tournament on record for crime.

They include stabbings, glassings, fights and assaults on police officers, with at least 622 people arrested so far in England and Wales.

Cheshire Constabulary chief constable Mark Roberts, who is the national lead for football policing, told The Independent: “We have seen random attacks on Italians ... Italians celebrating the win have been attacked"
"

[Crunchie]

Except an England team who all grew up in the 'Internet generation' have just taken their country further than they have in 55 years. And Scotland reached a first international tournament in a generation.
We have nothing like the abundance of talent to choose from that we once had, to suggest otherwise is just nonsense.
I think the same can be said of England, to a lesser degree though. I thought the English team was one of the worst I've seen considering it was basically a home tournament for them.
A Bobby Robson England team would have won that tournament with a bit in hand imo.

[JimBHibees]

https://www.msn.com/en-gb/sport/football/euro-2020-random-attacks-on-italians-at-end-of-worst-ever-tournament-for-crime-police-say/ar-AAM73zO?ocid=entnewsntp


This gives some perspective on the scale of the violence associated with the final:

"England fans launched “random attacks on Italians” after the final of the Euro 2020 tournament, police have said.

Forces across the country are still collating figures on the number of incidents targeting supporters of Italy, who won the tournament on penalties.

More than 2,300 police incidents linked to the Euros have so far been recorded, surpassing the 2018 World Cup to make it the worst football tournament on record for crime.

They include stabbings, glassings, fights and assaults on police officers, with at least 622 people arrested so far in England and Wales.

Cheshire Constabulary chief constable Mark Roberts, who is the national lead for football policing, told The Independent: “We have seen random attacks on Italians ... Italians celebrating the win have been attacked"
"

Hugely downplayed by media especially BBC news Monday morning was in full mourning mode with little or no mention of the huge thuggery all over the country

[Bangkok Hibby]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=359339262219842&id=100044313135399

Brilliant!

[CentreLine]

We have nothing like the abundance of talent to choose from that we once had, to suggest otherwise is just nonsense.
I think the same can be said of England, to a lesser degree though. I thought the English team was one of the worst I've seen considering it was basically a home tournament for them.
A Bobby Robson England team would have won that tournament with a bit in hand imo.

Not a chance. Ally McLeod’s Scotland would have beaten them in the final 😉

[mcohibs]

We have nothing like the abundance of talent to choose from that we once had, to suggest otherwise is just nonsense.
I think the same can be said of England, to a lesser degree though. I thought the English team was one of the worst I've seen considering it was basically a home tournament for them.
A Bobby Robson England team would have won that tournament with a bit in hand imo.

The poster was making the point though that technology, Internet, gaming etc has had a negative effect on the standard of players we are producing. I just don't buy it at all. Does the Internet only exist in Britain like? Surely the rest of the world can use the same excuse, its an even playing field with regards to that. This 'Internet generation' Scotland team have achieved more than we have as a nation in decades. Players playing at the top level in England.

You don't think England have an abundance of top quality players, playing in the highest leagues in Europe at the moment to choose from? Their squad is excellent at the moment, I don't think you can actually argue against that. All young players that have grown up with the aforementioned technology and have taken their country further than they've been since before the moon landings.

It's the classic 'back in my day' argument that just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

[hibsbollah]

The poster was making the point though that technology, Internet, gaming etc has had a negative effect on the standard of players we are producing. I just don't buy it at all. Does the Internet only exist in Britain like? Surely the rest of the world can use the same excuse, its an even playing field with regards to that. This 'Internet generation' Scotland team have achieved more than we have as a nation in decades. Players playing at the top level in England.

You don't think England have an abundance of top quality players, playing in the highest leagues in Europe at the moment to choose from? Their squad is excellent at the moment, I don't think you can actually argue against that. All young players that have grown up with the aforementioned technology and have taken their country further than they've been since before the moon landings.

It's the classic 'back in my day' argument that just doesn't stand up to scrutiny.

The argument that ‘We lose major tournaments because youngsters these days are all on screens’ has been debunked so many times that there’s no point even engaging in the argument any more.

It’s about;

1. PROPER Coaching
2. Money
3.Facilities
4. Long term planning

[Since452]

We have nothing like the abundance of talent to choose from that we once had, to suggest otherwise is just nonsense.
I think the same can be said of England, to a lesser degree though. I thought the English team was one of the worst I've seen considering it was basically a home tournament for them.
A Bobby Robson England team would have won that tournament with a bit in hand imo.

I agree. England didn't have anyone that stood out and made me think "that's a great player". In the past England were accused of being a team of individuals with the likes of Beckham, Scholes Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney etc all being shoehorned into the side. Now they're more of a team of lesser quality players in my opinion. Maybe not a bad thing for them. I don't think their egos are as big. Probably one of the more likeable England teams i can remember if i can say that as a proud Scotsman!

[SHODAN]

I agree. England didn't have anyone that stood out and made me think "that's a great player". In the past England were accused of being a team of individuals with the likes of Beckham, Scholes Gerrard, Lampard, Rooney etc all being shoehorned into the side. Now they're more of a team of lesser quality players in my opinion. Maybe not a bad thing for them. I don't think their egos are as big. Probably one of the more likeable England teams i can remember if i can say that as a proud Scotsman!

:agree:

I do like most of these England players bar Pickford and Maguire. Rashford in particular is a great guy and a national hero.

[blackpoolhibs]

The only goal Pickford let in before the final was a free kick 5 foot away from his right hand post, most keepers would say they should save that.

He hardly had any saves to make during the whole competition, but he did make a great save in the lead up to the Italian goal. :greengrin

Nowhere near keeper of the tournament in my opinion.

[J-C]

https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=359339262219842&id=100044313135399

Brilliant!


The guy is brilliant, his off camera rants are so spot on, funny yet politically on the button.

[JimBHibees]

The only goal Pickford let in before the final was a free kick 5 foot away from his right hand post, most keepers would say they should save that.

He hardly had any saves to make during the whole competition, but he did make a great save in the lead up to the Italian goal. :greengrin

Nowhere near keeper of the tournament in my opinion.

Donnarumma by a mile imo. Pickford looked very shaky in the Denmark game threw the ball out to a Danish player at one point and as you say let in the only real save he had to make.

[BILLYHIBS]

EURO 2020

Patrick Schick’s strike against Scotland for the Czech Republic at Hampden named goal of the tournament


As voted for by 800000 fans from a short list of ten selected by official UEFA technical advisers in a 24 hour period

[Onion]

Hugely downplayed by media especially BBC news Monday morning was in full mourning mode with little or no mention of the huge thuggery all over the country

:agree: BBC focus was 100% on abuse of the 3 England players, has been for days, with little to ne mention of the general unrest post-final.

Any objective coverage of the problems in England risks their bid for the WC 2030.

[Mantis Toboggan]

:agree: BBC focus was 100% on abuse of the 3 England players, has been for days, with little to ne mention of the general unrest post-final.

Any objective coverage of the problems in England risks their bid for the WC 2030.

More and more stories are coming to light now though. This being perhaps the worst so far...

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2021/jul/14/ticketless-fans-actions-at-wembley-terrifying-say-disabled-fans

[eastterrace]

The only goal Pickford let in before the final was a free kick 5 foot away from his right hand post, most keepers would say they should save that.

He hardly had any saves to make during the whole competition, but he did make a great save in the lead up to the Italian goal. :greengrin

Nowhere near keeper of the tournament in my opinion.sure I seen Pickford making a great save against scotland from O’Donnell.

[Lancs Harp]

Pickford had a decent tournament and made a few very good saves. He's a good shot stopper but a keeper you feel always has a mistake in him. Donnarumma was the keeper of the tournament for me. Interesting that the two keepers in the frame are the two finalists and the two best teams in the competition and as such might expect the two keepers concerned might have not that much to do?

[blackpoolhibs]

sure I seen Pickford making a great save against scotland from O’Donnell.
I forgot about that save, although if he'd let that in he'd have been slaughtered, a run of the mill save.

[Key West]

I forgot about that save, although if he'd let that in he'd have been slaughtered, a run of the mill save.

He had a decent save against the Chelsea striker who played for Germany at 0-0 but I can remember a few saves he made which he didn't know anything about, as you can guess not a favourite of mine, too manic and attention seeking.