Hearts' New Stand Thread (Merged)

[007]

She said she wasn't sure if Craig Levein actually takes the players for training. Sounds like she's well on top of things :greengrin I couldn't listen to anymore.

Doesn't sound like Levein is leaving any time soon, be it as head coach or DoF, which is good news. If I was a Jambo I'd not be happy to hear it is up to him what he wants to do and when. Cushiest/safest job in Scottish football. Budge will never sack him, it will take a fans' revolt to get him out

[hibbyfraelibby]

I'm unsure how she made so much money, she comes across as clueless. Totally clueless.

The company was Newell and Budge...reckon Ms Alison Newell was the brains hence her name came first. Budge herself only ever appeared as the Company Seretary. Newell was the Consultant brains

[greenginger]

The company was Newell and Budge...reckon Ms Alison Newall was the brains hence her name came first.


Not really, Alison Newell left the company in 2001 , but the company name didn't change.

Budge did not build the company herself though, by 2005 there were 10 other directors on the board.

I think budge knew her stuff on I.T., trouble for the Yams is she thinks it makes her an expert on all things.

[Keith_M]

Whatever happened to that Morganleith guy?


Anybody else reckon he's actually #allisbarry?

[Deansy]

Doesn't sound like Levein is leaving any time soon, be it as head coach or DoF, which is good news. If I was a Jambo I'd not be happy to hear it is up to him what he wants to do and when. Cushiest/safest job in Scottish football. Budge will never sack him, it will take a fans' revolt to get him out

Amen to that - we are all rejoicing at THAT !!


The company was Newell and Budge...reckon Ms Alison Newall was the brains hence her name came first.

Does that mean that Budge was 'The Looker' who caught all the randy business-types eye ?? :sick:

[Famous Fiver]

You're having to go back a fair bit for that theory to hold water, my man.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Not really, Alison Newell left the company in 2001 , but the company name didn't change.

Budge did not build the company herself though, by 2005 there were 10 other directors on the board.

I think budge knew her stuff on I.T., trouble for the Yams is she thinks it makes her an expert on all things.
Budge also resigned in 2001 and then resigned again after the completion of the French take over. I dealt with N&B over the years prior to the sale and they were woefully poor on deadline management, cost over runs, over promising and under-delivering. All Budge traits.

[007]

Jambo at my work told me today that he and his son are not renewing next year. He was claiming that it was to do with his son playing on a Saturday morning and not having time etc etc. Speaking to him over the past few weeks though I think that is an excuse. He has been saying for weeks that the football is honking and that its just not worth the money. He is also talking about stopping his jambo tax, erm I mean his FOH DD.

Next time you see him ask him if his wife knows he pays to FoH and if so, does she know how much. I bet most wives/partners haven't been told because they'd never approve of it when the money could be spent on the kids/family instead.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Not really, Alison Newell left the company in 2001 , but the company name didn't change.

Budge did not build the company herself though, by 2005 there were 10 other directors on the board.

I think budge knew her stuff on I.T., trouble for the Yams is she thinks it makes her an expert on all things.
Budge did not found the company, she was a co-founder with Alison Newell. Alison Newell was the majority shareholder and Ann Budge only acquired 100% control through a Management Buy Out in 2001 when Alison Newell decided to enjoy early retirement. Budge then flogged the company on to SOPRA. The French came in and she got booted as CEO.

Budge had good connections in the incestuous Edinburgh Financial sector in the days before Goodwin took the relatively tiny RBS on a global rampage, Bank of Scotland was still a small independent bank and Standard Life like the other two used Walker as a core system and the same wee group of people who went on the merry go round between the three were all part of the Barnton and D Mains dinner cicuit.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Any word on final capacity yet, or are they still keeping it hush hush?

[Northernhibee]

Any word on final capacity yet, or are they still keeping it hush hush?

It'll be on the same page as the share certificates.

[Deansy]

Hibs don't pass that charge on to the fans, it's absorbed by the club.

Yup, some of them are not happy -

'...... makes the admin charge even more annoying. Last year I had to call to pay, ordered 8 STs in the new stand (renewing from the old stand but obviously new seats for us all), paid on credit card and new cards were sent out. So from an admin perspective they've had to man a telephone, print cards & post cards and there was zero admin fee. This year they've added the season to my card, that's it.... £1.50 admin fe!'

'I get that it's an online thing for Ticketmaster and I can understand it for single match tickets (cup, away etc) but on the STs it is a piss take I'm afraid'

Are the natives starting to tipple ??. Getting the feeling they're a '4-5 run of games without a win' away from sliding back into real soapy again - fingers crossed !

[jacomo]

From 24-07-2017



8 months ago and now there could be at least 9 months left.


Ha! Great find.

I actually tried to search for Budge’s statement on “rescheduling” the work, but there have been so many of them.

[SuperAllyMcleod]

Claiming there league position on the fact they played so many away games in a row without then acknowlodging that they’re squared up now home and away games wise. Your league position is because you’re crap ya clown, no cause you played more away games earlier in the season - something that you requested by the way.

It’s worse than that, they basically claim that the games at Murrayfield were away games!

The fact that to go to Murrayfield was their choice cuts no ice with the clowns.

[Jack Hackett]

It’s worse than that, they basically claim that the games at Murrayfield were away games!

The fact that to go to Murrayfield was their choice cuts no ice with the clowns.

Happy to claim the attendances to boost their average home gate though

[SuperAllyMcleod]

First QF since 2012 lol

I'm not really sure Ann Budge "gets it"

It does prove that they really don’t care about the League Cup - they made the final of that in 2013.

[Kato]

part of the Barnton and D Mains dinner cicuit.


....and there's that slight vomity taste at the back of my throat.

[jgl07]

It does prove that they really don’t care about the League Cup - they made the final of that in 2013.

It’s the Wee Cup when Hibs win it. By contrast when Hearts win it it’s .........

Sorry forgot about that!

[Ozyhibby]

They have had to back down and go back to the original age groupings.
U11 is gone and u13 is back. Still a massive price hike.
Apparently in the rush (why such a rush?) to launch the season tickets they created a whole new age band and change the qualifying dates by a month without realising it. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] Yams will swallow it though.


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[hibbyfraelibby]

They have had to back down and go back to the original age groupings.
U11 is gone and u13 is back. Still a massive price hike.
Apparently in the rush (why such a rush?) to launch the season tickets they created a whole new age band and change the qualifying dates by a month without realising it. [emoji23][emoji23][emoji23] Yams will swallow it though.


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Some of the Yams are not daft enough to swallow that explaination and are now calling them out as liars.

They didnt think their new concession structure through and its cost implication for families. The fans reaction was to downgrade a category or two cutting their potential revenue.

This was not a genuine error because it was rushed through it was decided weeks ago before their brochure
went to press. They are skint and tried to mug their own support and it was back-firing big time on them.

They are a bunch of shambolic amatuers behind the scenes blundering from one cock up to the next...long may it continue.

[PaulG]

(Yesterday, 03:08 PM)Cammo Toe Wrote: https://i.imgur.com/pTlvUIYl.png (https://i.imgur.com/pTlvUIY.png)

If that's in the new stand. http://i.imgur.com/iZT8ghc.png
Absolutely perfect.:flag::nlgwa

[007]

Some of the Yams are not daft enough to swallow that explaination and are now calling them out as liars.

They didnt think their new concession structure through and its cost implication for families. The fans reaction was to downgrade a category or two cutting their potential revenue.

This was not a genuine error because it was rushed through it was decided weeks ago before their brochure
went to press. They are skint and tried to mug their own support and it was back-firing big time on them.

They are a bunch of shambolic amatuers behind the scenes blundering from one cock up to the next...long may it continue.

Or instead of dropping down a category or two they could reduce their FoH direct debits to balance it out.

[FilipinoHibs]

Budge did not found the company, she was a co-founder with Alison Newell. Alison Newell was the majority shareholder and Ann Budge only acquired 100% control through a Management Buy Out in 2001 when Alison Newell decided to enjoy early retirement. Budge then flogged the company on to SOPRA. The French came in and she got booted as CEO.

Budge had good connections in the incestuous Edinburgh Financial sector in the days before Goodwin took the relatively tiny RBS on a global rampage, Bank of Scotland was still a small independent bank and Standard Life like the other two used Walker as a core system and the same wee group of people who went on the merry go round between the three were all part of the Barnton and D Mains dinner cicuit.

worked at Standard Life for a while. Their systems were honking and defo part of the old boy/girl network.

[Kato]

(Yesterday, 03:08 PM)Cammo Toe Wrote: https://i.imgur.com/pTlvUIYl.png (https://i.imgur.com/pTlvUIY.png)

If that's in the new stand. http://i.imgur.com/iZT8ghc.png
Absolutely perfect.:flag::nlgwa

Wow. I heard about this the other day (among other horrendous stories). If that's the one I heard about the "wall" at the top of the stairs is a single sheet of plasterboard. H&S my left yak.

[NAE NOOKIE]

It does prove that they really don’t care about the League Cup - they made the final of that in 2013.

Still one of my favourite non Hibs matches ..... watching St Mirren lose a goal early and then come storming back with 3 of their own was hilarious, made even better by Hertz giving their fans false hope with an 85th minute goal :greengrin Incidentally, yet another big game where the famous didn't sell all the tickets available to them .... St Mirren complained long and loud about their measly 15,000 allocation ( which they sold out ) and yet the attendance was only 44,000.

[Ozyhibby]

(Yesterday, 03:08 PM)Cammo Toe Wrote: https://i.imgur.com/pTlvUIYl.png (https://i.imgur.com/pTlvUIY.png)

If that's in the new stand. http://i.imgur.com/iZT8ghc.png
Absolutely perfect.:flag::nlgwa

Wonder why the architect got sacked? [emoji23]


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[WoreTheGreen]

The stairway to?

[AltheHibby]

The stairway to?
The Hotel California? 🤔

[WoreTheGreen]

The Hotel California? 🤔

Mirrors on the ceiling
Pink champagne on ice (when it’s finished)

[hibbyfraelibby]

(Yesterday, 03:08 PM)Cammo Toe Wrote: https://i.imgur.com/pTlvUIYl.png (https://i.imgur.com/pTlvUIY.png)

If that's in the new stand. http://i.imgur.com/iZT8ghc.png
Absolutely perfect.:flag::nlgwa

This is taking Restricted View seating to new levels...and you cannot see the castle either.

[Jack Hackett]

The stairway to?

Just like the yams, it's going nowhere.

[Hibby70]

Just like the yams, it's going nowhere.

You're just a Muggle. Everyone knows that's section 9 3/4 and leads direct to Leveins private box

[adhibs]

(Yesterday, 03:08 PM)Cammo Toe Wrote: https://i.imgur.com/pTlvUIYl.png (https://i.imgur.com/pTlvUIY.png)

If that's in the new stand. http://i.imgur.com/iZT8ghc.png
Absolutely perfect.:flag::nlgwa

Whats the story behind this? That new stand just kreps on giving.

[SirDavidsNapper]

(Yesterday, 03:08 PM)Cammo Toe Wrote: https://i.imgur.com/pTlvUIYl.png (https://i.imgur.com/pTlvUIY.png)

If that's in the new stand. http://i.imgur.com/iZT8ghc.png
Absolutely perfect.:flag::nlgwa

Its like Harry Potters platform 9 3/4. It was a Craig Potter requirement. If you run fast enough into the wall you will magically enter Hearts trophy room full of Champions league trophys and double winning medals. Gary Mackays been trapped in there for years. It's a magical place.

[007]

The stairway to?

The toilet. Not the first time Levein's blocked one.

[dchibs]

Whats the story behind this? That new stand just kreps on giving.

Is Romanov hiding behind there.

[West lower]

(Yesterday, 03:08 PM)Cammo Toe Wrote: https://i.imgur.com/pTlvUIYl.png (https://i.imgur.com/pTlvUIY.png)

If that's in the new stand.
http://i.imgur.com/iZT8ghc.png
Absolutely perfect.:flag::nlgwa


A proper main stand has two tiers. It seems the architect forgot they were doing the cheap version.

[Skol]

It was going to be the trophy room, but then they realised they dont need one

[Not In The Know]

Is this 100% genuine?

[Just Alf]

Is this 100% genuine?Yes...


But its a work in progress :-)



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[AltheHibby]

You're just a Muggle. Everyone knows that's section 9 3/4 and leads direct to Leveins private box

That's not a place decent people go! 🤢

[Sammy7nil]

Is this 100% genuine?

I am guessing no, why is it painted blue and not pink :greengrin

[greenginger]

Is this 100% genuine?


They’ve applied for a partial completion certificate for the parts of the Budge folly they are using with “Fire safe voids “ being formed in the unused areas ( that’s the lounges and sky snack shack that they can’t afford to finish.

so it’s all part of grand plan.

[SteveHFC]

The stairway to?

was meant to be stair way to heaven but that's been put on hold :greengrin

[WoreTheGreen]

Thank fk is not the escalator

[EastCalderHibby]

(Yesterday, 03:08 PM)Cammo Toe Wrote: https://i.imgur.com/pTlvUIYl.png (https://i.imgur.com/pTlvUIY.png)

If that's in the new stand. http://i.imgur.com/iZT8ghc.png
Absolutely perfect.:flag::nlgwa

:faf::faf::faf::faf::faf: thats taken you to the trophy room or the helipad cant remember :faf:

[jacomo]

I am guessing no, why is it painted blue and not pink :greengrin


Inner Hun can be suppressed but it always finds a way...

[CraigHibee]

The stairway to?

Anne's big overhanging glass curtains

[Bostonhibby]

Whatever happened to that Morganleith guy?


Anybody else reckon he's actually #allisbarry?Set up a construction consultancy business. Morgan Tomasso & Budge.

Never knowingly informed.

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[Deansy]

Thank fk is not the escalator

What exactly became of their escalator - does it actually exist or has it gone the same way as the 'Stunning View of Edinburgh Castle' ??

[HibbyDave]

As an aside, IF they order a new hybrid pitch how long will it take to lay it and bed it in?
Close season is fairly short so maybe kick-off next season back at Murrayfield?

[Anti-hoofbaw]

Why was ma Bruce Springsteen 'Tunnel of Love' song deleted ? That was an epic number btw :no way:

[marinello59]

Why was ma Bruce Springsteen 'Tunnel of Love' song deleted ? That was an epic number btw :no way:

Because we do try to keep this place family friendly.

[jacomo]

As an aside, IF they order a new hybrid pitch how long will it take to lay it and bed it in?
Close season is fairly short so maybe kick-off next season back at Murrayfield?


Don’t worry, Budge has got it all under control, she’s found a cheap supplier in the Far East and just has to put the order in on time...

[Anti-hoofbaw]

:doh:

[Col2]

As an aside, IF they order a new hybrid pitch how long will it take to lay it and bed it in?
Close season is fairly short so maybe kick-off next season back at Murrayfield?

Takes 6 weeks to lay Hybrid pitch but you would want a free weeks to try it out, get moisture right etc so would say starting by end of May would give them that.

I am willing to put on record now that when it comes to the crunch they will decide against it at 11th hour (with season ticket renewals in the bag) and relay pitch. The issue they have is they need a full pitch relay which is far more than just the turf. They need to start that at end of May as well.

They won’t be in Europe so have a little more time than the rest of us 😉

[Anti-hoofbaw]

:doh:

:coffee:

[Caversham Green]

What exactly became of their escalator - does it actually exist or has it gone the same way as the 'Stunning View of Edinburgh Castle' ??

Dozens of yams missed the last match because it broke down while they were on it.

[Keith_M]

Dozens of yams missed the last match because it broke down while they were on it.


Some people have all the luck.

[GreenLake]

'The Stairway to Havering'

[HibbyDave]

Takes 6 weeks to lay Hybrid pitch but you would want a free weeks to try it out, get moisture right etc so would say starting by end of May would give them that.

I am willing to put on record now that when it comes to the crunch they will decide against it at 11th hour (with season ticket renewals in the bag) and relay pitch. The issue they have is they need a full pitch relay which is far more than just the turf. They need to start that at end of May as well.

They won’t be in Europe so have a little more time than the rest of us 😉

I thought iit would take much longer as they will need to lift existing pitch and undersoil heating etc then prepare site before starting to lay new foundations and super duper new grass/ plastic.

[KerPlunk]

Takes 6 weeks to lay Hybrid pitch but you would want a free weeks to try it out, get moisture right etc so would say starting by end of May would give them that.

I am willing to put on record now that when it comes to the crunch they will decide against it at 11th hour (with season ticket renewals in the bag) and relay pitch. The issue they have is they need a full pitch relay which is far more than just the turf. They need to start that at end of May as well.

They won’t be in Europe so have a little more time than the rest of us 😉
https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/11997637/Paying-the-price-for-the-beautiful-game.html

[Hibs4185]

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/sport/football/11997637/Paying-the-price-for-the-beautiful-game.html

Hope they spend a million on the best pitch in the world and then the scientists come out and say its shi**!

[Ozyhibby]

Hope they spend a million on the best pitch in the world and then the scientists come out and say its shi**!

Doesn’t matter what they lay, it’s not going to get any bigger so every game played there will be the same battle they always have. They will lead the bookings and red card league for as long as they remain at Tynecastle.


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[wallpaperman]

There's a moderately interesting and very detailed Q&A with Ann Budge on Kickback.

At the very top, the first question, is 'what is the capacity?'

The answer is that it is 20,000. Not around that figure, or just over that amount, but exactly. Amazing that they have built the stand exactly to such a round and significant figure......

So there you go. Even if they can never fill or sell that many seats (because they don't exist), the official capacity is 20,000.

[Sauzee16]

There's a moderately interesting and very detailed Q&A with Ann Budge on Kickback.

At the very top, the first question, is 'what is the capacity?'

The answer is that it is 20,000. Not around that figure, or just over that amount, but exactly. Amazing that they have built the stand exactly to such a round and significant figure......

So there you go. Even if they can never fill or sell that many seats (because they don't exist), the official capacity is 20,000.

:faf::faf::faf:

The fannies will actually accept that too.

[jgl07]

There's a moderately interesting and very detailed Q&A with Ann Budge on Kickback.

At the very top, the first question, is 'what is the capacity?'

The answer is that it is 20,000. Not around that figure, or just over that amount, but exactly. Amazing that they have built the stand exactly to such a round and significant figure......

So there you go. Even if they can never fill or sell that many seats (because they don't exist), the official capacity is 20,000.

Unless Hibs are visiting, the effective capacity is around 18,500. As Hibs get the whole stand, it avoids having a segregation line and pushes the capacity up to just over 19,000.

We obviously live in a post truth society where crooks like Trump and Johnson not to mention Buudge can play fast and loose with what is obvious.

[Peevemor]

Our safety certificate at the moment allows us to sell up to 95% capacity (due to the control room restricting views).

1000 seats due to the control room? Really?


Is there a plan to build a TV studio?


AB: Yes, there is a preferred plan, and that is to house it at the top/rear of the new stand. It would be approximately mid-way between the halfway point and the corner nearest the control room. It would have a glass fronted window overlooking the stadium. Current designs might see the loss of a couple of rows of seats directly in front of it. This is still being checked out by our structural engineers.


A glass fronted window? Is this a first?


How much does it cost us to rent our training/Academy space at Riccarton and do you view it as good value for money?


AB: It costs in the region of £450,000 per annum and yes, we consider it good value for money. I would also add that we now have a performance school at Balerno so that's also very exciting for the future. We want to produce good young players through our performance school and our academy, play them in the first team, and then, when the time is right, sell them on for a profit. The facilities at Riccarton are magnificent. In fact, one player we've shown around there recently described it as "fantastic". When players come to see what we have to offer, we show them the training/academy facilities at Riccarton. Then we bring them to Tynecastle and they'll see the new stand, and the improved stadium, and then we show them the city centre and what Edinburgh has to offer. Players are usually very impressed.


Well there you go!

[HIBERNIAN-0762]

That second quote made me spit out my tea....

*** hilarious stuff!

:hilarious:hilarious:hilarious

[Ozyhibby]

They used to pay a lot less at riccarton. HW obviously put up the prices on them, maybe trying to recoup some of the cash. East Mains cost us a similar amount but the price there will only rise with inflation.


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[Jack Hackett]

When our ST's match (or better) theirs next season, our attendances game for game will be better than theirs because they will never ever fill those phantom seats.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Here's my favourite from the Q&A:

Q24. What is your assessment of Craig Levein as manager?
AB: He's both an excellent Manager and Director of Football and I am pleased that he plays both roles. He is a people person who knows every player, including all our young players, and he has the trust of our young players and their parents; and cultivating good relationships with the parents is vital. He is absolutely motivated to develop young players and brings a great deal of experience to his dual role. He is generally well-respected in Scottish football, has great contacts, and he keeps me posted at all times. I’m happy with how things are going, and we have a very good working relationship.

:faf::faf:

[G B Young]

For anyone who can be bothered reading through the whole rambling response, you'll note that the first question (when will it be finished?) never actually gets answered:

Q2. When will the upper floors/lounges of the new stand be completed? What is the overall cost of the Tynecastle redevelopment project and did the reported rising cost concern you?
AB: The completion of the upper floors is the next major phase of the redevelopment plan, albeit we have a number of things to complete before we embark on that phase.
We will start at the top, on the third floor, and will aim to complete that as early as possible next season. We will then come down to complete the 2nd floor. The original plans for the 2nd floor included lots of additional hospitality space and new office space but the office space where we are now located [under the Wheatfield Stand] is excellent and a vast improvement on what we had previously. We asked ourselves: "Do we really need to build a whole load of office space again?" We don’t think it is necessary, so we've decided to leave the offices in the Wheatfield and make a large part of the 2nd floor event and exhibition space, as there is a shortage of good exhibition space in Edinburgh.
Something else we came to realise was that our original plan of moving our “Match-Day Experience” from the Gorgie Suite to the new stand may not be the right thing to do. Having recently been refurbished, the Gorgie Suite works fantastically well on match days - especially for the type of hospitality that it offers. In the new stand, the 2nd floor space is longer and narrower than the Gorgie Suite and this would not work so well. This is one of the reasons we feel we have to re-visit the plans for the 2nd floor. Also, we need to take maximum advantage of the space for use on non-match days… i.e. the other 13 days in the fortnight. We would like to use it for conferences for 400-500 people with breakout rooms available off the main space. We have already made contact with people in the arts and science exhibition/festival industry, for example. We’re looking at being able to host a variety of different types of events - and we are determined to ensure the space will be flexible enough to align with our strategy of maximum utilisation and revenue generation.
The cost of the stand is now looking like £15M, up from the original estimate of £12M. Yes, the rise in cost did concern us but there was always a contingency plan in place to allow for the possibility that the final bill could be higher. Our concerns were tempered by the fact that we can control how much of the stand we complete in what timescale. The most important thing was to get the stand open, in terms of it being up and running for the fans to be able to take to their seats and for the team to get back playing at home. We knew that much of the other interiors could be finished at a later date, thus, staggering the costs. The over-run was caused by various things including some unexpected costs. For example, the HSE informed us that not only did we have to build a new wall between us and the giant ethanol tanks in the North British Distillery, but we also had to build a new wall between the tanks and the old high school, running north towards the West Approach Road; a boundary that has nothing to do with us. However, because we wanted our redevelopment to take place and regulations had changed since the other stands were built, we had to pay for that wall at a very large additional cost.

[Steven79]

For anyone who can be bothered reading through the whole rambling response, you'll note that the first question (when will it be finished?) never actually gets answered:

Q2. When will the upper floors/lounges of the new stand be completed? What is the overall cost of the Tynecastle redevelopment project and did the reported rising cost concern you?
AB: The completion of the upper floors is the next major phase of the redevelopment plan, albeit we have a number of things to complete before we embark on that phase.
We will start at the top, on the third floor, and will aim to complete that as early as possible next season. We will then come down to complete the 2nd floor. The original plans for the 2nd floor included lots of additional hospitality space and new office space but the office space where we are now located [under the Wheatfield Stand] is excellent and a vast improvement on what we had previously. We asked ourselves: "Do we really need to build a whole load of office space again?" We don’t think it is necessary, so we've decided to leave the offices in the Wheatfield and make a large part of the 2nd floor event and exhibition space, as there is a shortage of good exhibition space in Edinburgh.
Something else we came to realise was that our original plan of moving our “Match-Day Experience” from the Gorgie Suite to the new stand may not be the right thing to do. Having recently been refurbished, the Gorgie Suite works fantastically well on match days - especially for the type of hospitality that it offers. In the new stand, the 2nd floor space is longer and narrower than the Gorgie Suite and this would not work so well. This is one of the reasons we feel we have to re-visit the plans for the 2nd floor. Also, we need to take maximum advantage of the space for use on non-match days… i.e. the other 13 days in the fortnight. We would like to use it for conferences for 400-500 people with breakout rooms available off the main space. We have already made contact with people in the arts and science exhibition/festival industry, for example. We’re looking at being able to host a variety of different types of events - and we are determined to ensure the space will be flexible enough to align with our strategy of maximum utilisation and revenue generation.
The cost of the stand is now looking like £15M, up from the original estimate of £12M. Yes, the rise in cost did concern us but there was always a contingency plan in place to allow for the possibility that the final bill could be higher. Our concerns were tempered by the fact that we can control how much of the stand we complete in what timescale. The most important thing was to get the stand open, in terms of it being up and running for the fans to be able to take to their seats and for the team to get back playing at home. We knew that much of the other interiors could be finished at a later date, thus, staggering the costs. The over-run was caused by various things including some unexpected costs. For example, the HSE informed us that not only did we have to build a new wall between us and the giant ethanol tanks in the North British Distillery, but we also had to build a new wall between the tanks and the old high school, running north towards the West Approach Road; a boundary that has nothing to do with us. However, because we wanted our redevelopment to take place and regulations had changed since the other stands were built, we had to pay for that wall at a very large additional cost.

So in other words they are making it all up as they go along.....

Who knew??? :wink:

[jgl07]

Hope they spend a million on the best pitch in the world and then the scientists come out and say its shi**!

Does it really matter as most of Hearts football (hoofball) is played 'in the air'.

[SirDavidsNapper]

Here's my favourite from the Q&A:

Q24. What is your assessment of Craig Levein as manager?
AB: He's both an excellent Manager and Director of Football and I am pleased that he plays both roles. He is a people person who knows every player, including all our young players, and he has the trust of our young players and their parents; and cultivating good relationships with the parents is vital. He is absolutely motivated to develop young players and brings a great deal of experience to his dual role. He is generally well-respected in Scottish football, has great contacts, and he keeps me posted at all times. I’m happy with how things are going, and we have a very good working relationship.

:faf::faf:

Brilliant news!

[McSwanky]

For anyone who can be bothered reading through the whole rambling response, you'll note that the first question (when will it be finished?) never actually gets answered:

Q2. When will the upper floors/lounges of the new stand be completed? What is the overall cost of the Tynecastle redevelopment project and did the reported rising cost concern you?
AB: The completion of the upper floors is the next major phase of the redevelopment plan, albeit we have a number of things to complete before we embark on that phase.
We will start at the top, on the third floor, and will aim to complete that as early as possible next season. We will then come down to complete the 2nd floor. The original plans for the 2nd floor included lots of additional hospitality space and new office space but the office space where we are now located [under the Wheatfield Stand] is excellent and a vast improvement on what we had previously. We asked ourselves: "Do we really need to build a whole load of office space again?" We don’t think it is necessary, so we've decided to leave the offices in the Wheatfield and make a large part of the 2nd floor event and exhibition space, as there is a shortage of good exhibition space in Edinburgh.
Something else we came to realise was that our original plan of moving our “Match-Day Experience” from the Gorgie Suite to the new stand may not be the right thing to do. Having recently been refurbished, the Gorgie Suite works fantastically well on match days - especially for the type of hospitality that it offers. In the new stand, the 2nd floor space is longer and narrower than the Gorgie Suite and this would not work so well. This is one of the reasons we feel we have to re-visit the plans for the 2nd floor. Also, we need to take maximum advantage of the space for use on non-match days… i.e. the other 13 days in the fortnight. We would like to use it for conferences for 400-500 people with breakout rooms available off the main space. We have already made contact with people in the arts and science exhibition/festival industry, for example. We’re looking at being able to host a variety of different types of events - and we are determined to ensure the space will be flexible enough to align with our strategy of maximum utilisation and revenue generation.
The cost of the stand is now looking like £15M, up from the original estimate of £12M. Yes, the rise in cost did concern us but there was always a contingency plan in place to allow for the possibility that the final bill could be higher. Our concerns were tempered by the fact that we can control how much of the stand we complete in what timescale. The most important thing was to get the stand open, in terms of it being up and running for the fans to be able to take to their seats and for the team to get back playing at home. We knew that much of the other interiors could be finished at a later date, thus, staggering the costs. The over-run was caused by various things including some unexpected costs. For example, the HSE informed us that not only did we have to build a new wall between us and the giant ethanol tanks in the North British Distillery, but we also had to build a new wall between the tanks and the old high school, running north towards the West Approach Road; a boundary that has nothing to do with us. However, because we wanted our redevelopment to take place and regulations had changed since the other stands were built, we had to pay for that wall at a very large additional cost.

A £3M wall? Just how long is it?

[SirDavidsNapper]

What's with the overuse of the words Tynecastle Park?

And did i just read a question about what would happen if they outgrew Tynecastle? Really? They should maybe try and fill it first before thinking they're going to outgrow it :faf:

Hibs will probably fill it for a semi final before they do

[green day]

For anyone who can be bothered reading through the whole rambling response, you'll note that the first question (when will it be finished?) never actually gets answered:

Q2. When will the upper floors/lounges of the new stand be completed? What is the overall cost of the Tynecastle redevelopment project and did the reported rising cost concern you?
AB: The completion of the upper floors is the next major phase of the redevelopment plan, albeit we have a number of things to complete before we embark on that phase.
We will start at the top, on the third floor, and will aim to complete that as early as possible next season. We will then come down to complete the 2nd floor. The original plans for the 2nd floor included lots of additional hospitality space and new office space but the office space where we are now located [under the Wheatfield Stand] is excellent and a vast improvement on what we had previously. We asked ourselves: "Do we really need to build a whole load of office space again?" We don’t think it is necessary, so we've decided to leave the offices in the Wheatfield and make a large part of the 2nd floor event and exhibition space, as there is a shortage of good exhibition space in Edinburgh.
Something else we came to realise was that our original plan of moving our “Match-Day Experience” from the Gorgie Suite to the new stand may not be the right thing to do. Having recently been refurbished, the Gorgie Suite works fantastically well on match days - especially for the type of hospitality that it offers. In the new stand, the 2nd floor space is longer and narrower than the Gorgie Suite and this would not work so well. This is one of the reasons we feel we have to re-visit the plans for the 2nd floor. Also, we need to take maximum advantage of the space for use on non-match days… i.e. the other 13 days in the fortnight. We would like to use it for conferences for 400-500 people with breakout rooms available off the main space. We have already made contact with people in the arts and science exhibition/festival industry, for example. We’re looking at being able to host a variety of different types of events - and we are determined to ensure the space will be flexible enough to align with our strategy of maximum utilisation and revenue generation.
The cost of the stand is now looking like £15M, up from the original estimate of £12M. Yes, the rise in cost did concern us but there was always a contingency plan in place to allow for the possibility that the final bill could be higher. Our concerns were tempered by the fact that we can control how much of the stand we complete in what timescale. The most important thing was to get the stand open, in terms of it being up and running for the fans to be able to take to their seats and for the team to get back playing at home. We knew that much of the other interiors could be finished at a later date, thus, staggering the costs. The over-run was caused by various things including some unexpected costs. For example, the HSE informed us that not only did we have to build a new wall between us and the giant ethanol tanks in the North British Distillery, but we also had to build a new wall between the tanks and the old high school, running north towards the West Approach Road; a boundary that has nothing to do with us. However, because we wanted our redevelopment to take place and regulations had changed since the other stands were built, we had to pay for that wall at a very large additional cost.


This bit about not moving the "hospitality experience" - so, am I reading this right that they will spend £15 M on a new stand, and the hospitality will be somewhere else so they can flog conference facilities !!

That explains why the current "suites" look like cheap hotel breakout rooms.

Surely the radges on JKB see through this guff?

[Famous Fiver]

Aye, but will the TV studio have views of Edinburgh Castle?

Oh, wait..........

[Steven79]

From Wikipedia:

"The two old stands and pavilion were replaced in 1914 by a pitch-length grandstand (the present Main Stand), designed by the renowned stadium architect Archibald Leitch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archibald_Leitch).[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tynecastle_Park#cite_note-Inglis447-4) To partly fund the cost of the new stand, Hearts sold Percy Dawson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Dawson_(football)) to Blackburn Rovers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackburn_Rovers_F.C.) for a British record transfer fee of £2,500.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tynecastle_Park#cite_note-tynecastle_1892-7) A number of items were omitted from the first estimate of the stand, which meant that its cost doubled to £12,000."

Some things never change! :greengrin

[Geo_1875]

So they're leaving their offices under the Wheatfield which was given a certificate as temporary accommodation (I think). Will planning and health & safety have to be revisited for this or will the rubber stamp make an (other) appearance?

[Mantis Toboggan]

This bit about not moving the "hospitality experience" - so, am I reading this right that they will spend £15 M on a new stand, and the hospitality will be somewhere else so they can flog conference facilities !!

That explains why the current "suites" look like cheap hotel breakout rooms.

Surely the radges on JKB see through this guff?

That is unbelievable if true.
Also the statement that Edinburgh lacks conference facilities - can't be true surely? There are tons of hotels just for starters.

[Ozyhibby]

That is unbelievable if true.
Also the statement that Edinburgh lacks conference facilities - can't be true surely? There are tons of hotels just for starters.

No, that bit is true. Edinburgh is short of conference facilities. Unfortunately for the yams, what they have build is not that great anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[GreenCastle]

That is unbelievable if true.
Also the statement that Edinburgh lacks conference facilities - can't be true surely? There are tons of hotels just for starters.

Google translate for Budge statements =

"We can't afford to fit out hospitality, so we are going to leave the bland looking long thin rooms with loads of pillars in the middle for hopefully some conferences / events folk to use if we are lucky"


...........

Remember all those stories about capacity being over 20,000 ? I can't see it ever reaching 20,000 finished or not.

Sounds like they will be spending a fortune this summer...

Control Box scaling down
New pitch - heating
New boilers
Redesigning toilets in new stand

Plus new players....:greengrin

[Jack]

From Wikipedia:

"The two old stands and pavilion were replaced in 1914 by a pitch-length grandstand (the present Main Stand), designed by the renowned stadium architect Archibald Leitch (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Archibald_Leitch).[4] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tynecastle_Park#cite_note-Inglis447-4) To partly fund the cost of the new stand, Hearts sold Percy Dawson (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Percy_Dawson_(football)) to Blackburn Rovers (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackburn_Rovers_F.C.) for a British record transfer fee of £2,500.[7] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tynecastle_Park#cite_note-tynecastle_1892-7) A number of items were omitted from the first estimate of the stand, which meant that its cost doubled to £12,000."

Some things never change! :greengrin

I might be wrong here but I recall a story of Archibald Leitch being a celebrated stadium architect of the time and brass plates with his name were given pride of place on his buildings.

Except at tynecastle. There was never a brass plate. There was a big fall out between him and the club and I don't think he got paid!

[Famous Fiver]

Big club, even then.

Obviously things like paying bills was beyond them.

Twas ever thus.

[Ozyhibby]

I just spoke to my mate who is an events manager and he just laughed at the suggestion the yams could be bidding for exhibition work. For a start he said, exhibition space is never on the 2nd floor because of the construction involved in building exhibition stands. They would need a sizeable loading bay with a massive lift. Their ceiling are far too low as well. The arts and science groups she claims to be talking too are the ones with no money anyway. At best they have a function suite for weddings etc. There is massive competition for that business though.

[Famous Fiver]

EICC, Ingliston plus many. many hotels are all available.

It will take years to build up any sort of viable business.

Edinburgh is not short of entrepreneurs or property developers. If t was that easy why are there no more dedicated conference venues being constructed?

They could always open a chip shop in the space available.

[green day]

I just spoke to my mate who is an events manager and he just laughed at the suggestion the yams could be bidding for exhibition work. For a start he said, exhibition space is never on the 2nd floor because of the construction involved in building exhibition stands. They would need a sizeable loading bay with a massive lift. Their ceiling are far too low as well. The arts and science groups she claims to be talking too are the ones with no money anyway. At best they have a function suite for weddings etc. There is massive competition for that business though.

Which 50% of Edinburgh brides/grooms would refuse to even look at as a venue.

Said it before, some of her decisions make me wonder how Budge became such a wealthy businesswoman.

[RyeSloan]

No, that bit is true. Edinburgh is short of conference facilities. Unfortunately for the yams, what they have build is not that great anyway.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Small to medium conference space is probably in ample supply and there will be many many existing venues operating in that market. Large conference space (EICC stylee)is probably still under supplied.

Anyway it sounds like a typical fall back answer. Clearly they have no idea what the space is to be used for as they have realised AFTER building it that it really wasn’t suitable for their intended use.

I think it’s safe to say the second floor won’t be getting fitted out or used in any meaningful way for a long time.

And as for the TV Studio plans...did I read that correctly in that they are now planning to retro fit that into the back of the stand? The same stand that has no dedicated directors access so I’m assuming there will be zero dedicated access for the TV pundits, crew and equipment all of which will need to use the standard stairways that the fans use to access their seats....that sounds like a brilliant plan!

[Sauzee16]

Who wants to go for a conference in Gorgie? It’s an actual dump of a place.

[Sauzee16]

Which 50% of Edinburgh brides/grooms would refuse to even look at as a venue.

Said it before, some of her decisions make me wonder how Budge became such a wealthy businesswoman.

90%

[jacomo]

Which 50% of Edinburgh brides/grooms would refuse to even look at as a venue.

Said it before, some of her decisions make me wonder how Budge became such a wealthy businesswoman.


I’ve never met Budge, but the usual reason is self-belief + luck.

Unfortunately, the self-belief often tips into narcissism and forget the ‘lucky’ part. Suddenly they think they have the Midas touch.

[Sauzee16]

I’ve never met Budge, but the usual reason is self-belief + luck.

Unfortunately, the self-belief often tips into narcissism and forget the ‘lucky’ part. Suddenly they think they have the Midas touch.

When she’s back up by some benefactor to keep them out the red regardless of how much they ***** it shows she’s good at what she does. Unless it’s her and she’s losing **** loads on a massive vantity project which will show historically she’s an owner being owned off Hibernian on and off the pitch.

[mutley]

When she’s back up by some benefactor to keep them out the red regardless of how much they ***** it shows she’s good at what she does. Unless it’s her and she’s losing **** loads on a massive vantity project which will show historically she’s an owner being owned off Hibernian on and off the pitch.

I kinda get the feeling that although she has bitten off more than she can chew, she has now invested so much of her own money that she will want to see a return rather than cut her (massive) loss. Budge is in far too deep to withdraw now, and it’s a huge juggling act. The fact that they are way off their targets for this year (4th and cup semi) shows that all is not well. If they finish bottom 6, with poor ST sales it could be a downward spiral. BUT I have no doubt that there will be with more mystery benefactors or the yams will pour even more money in, or even both!

Either way it’s a great time to be a Hibee


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[Famous Fiver]

She's getting 6% or so on her cash, allegedly.

Not a bad return in these low interest times.

[Billy Whizz]

She's getting 6% or so on her cash, allegedly.

Not a bad return in these low interest times.

Wouldn’t surprise me in the slightest if she wrote the interest off, would be a real Queen Ann forever!

[jgl07]

Who wants to go for a conference in Gorgie? It’s an actual dump of a place.
High in the car crime league table. Go to the conference and come back to find your car gone or on bricks with no wheels.

[CropleyWasGod]

She's getting 6% or so on her cash, allegedly.

Not a bad return in these low interest times.No she isn't [emoji16]

[malcolm]

A £3M wall? Just how long is it?

it will surely be great though, visible from space and more than a rival for the wee one in China.

[hibbyfraelibby]

There's a moderately interesting and very detailed Q&A with Ann Budge on Kickback.

At the very top, the first question, is 'what is the capacity?'

The answer is that it is 20,000. Not around that figure, or just over that amount, but exactly. Amazing that they have built the stand exactly to such a round and significant figure......

So there you go. Even if they can never fill or sell that many seats (because they don't exist), the official capacity is 20,000.

She tells porkies. I can assure you its 19541 max including restricted view. People can use FOIs to check the safety certification papers dear Doctor so lets be honest for once.

[BSEJVT]

The whole fiasco is a **** up of biblical proportions and she is a glib and shameless liar.

She must have Chemical Ali writing those press releases.

Not all the puddle drinkers are as thick as she thinks.

The penny will eventually drop.

All in all as far as I am concerned her ownership of Hearts has been a resounding success.

All hail the good doctor and more power to her delusion I say.

[SirDavidsNapper]

An overall capacity of exactly 20,000? Aye ok A(nn).

[007]

She tells porkies. I can assure you its 19541 max including restricted view. People can use FOIs to check the safety certification papers dear Doctor so lets be honest for once.

Interesting. Is that how you got the number 19541?

[Deansy]

There's a moderately interesting and very detailed Q&A with Ann Budge on Kickback.

At the very top, the first question, is 'what is the capacity?'

The answer is that it is 20,000. Not around that figure, or just over that amount, but exactly. Amazing that they have built the stand exactly to such a round and significant figure......

So there you go. Even if they can never fill or sell that many seats (because they don't exist), the official capacity is 20,000.


So is this Budge officially admitting that Tyney IS tinier ?

[lapsedhibee]

Ann Bodge is a m(assive) slaver.

[truehibernian]

She tells porkies. I can assure you its 19541 max including restricted view. People can use FOIs to check the safety certification papers dear Doctor so lets be honest for once.

The figure she is telling them about the pitch laid last season is way under what I heard was the actual cost (from someone who was 'at the table' when she made the decision - a decision he said was 'the most she has ever spent with the least amount of information to hand').

I honestly cannot believe Hearts supporters are happy with that Q&A :faf: the whole project is an absolute shambles from start to 'unfinished' :greengrin

They really are a gullible (and arrogant) lot. Wee bit unrest in the squad too I'm hearing :cb

[G B Young]

This bit about not moving the "hospitality experience" - so, am I reading this right that they will spend £15 M on a new stand, and the hospitality will be somewhere else so they can flog conference facilities !!

That explains why the current "suites" look like cheap hotel breakout rooms.

Surely the radges on JKB see through this guff?

And am I right in thinking the Gorgie suite hospitality referred to is that sunken Jozef Fritzl bunker-type place that somebody posted pics of way back on this thread?? If so, are they really suggesting that just sticking with that is a better option than fitting out the new stand that was supposedly designed to accommodate state of the art hospitality facilities?! Surely the whole point of having hospitality in the new stand is so that it can be part of the whole experience, allowing you to walk from your table to your seat in the stand? Instead, all that's there is a vast disused, undecorated space filled with builders' rubble and paint pots. The whole thing, including the decision not to bother fitting out any office space in the new stand, is a pitifully weak smokescreen designed to try and mask the fact they've no money to do any of this.

Here's a reminder of the schedule as listed by Budge in April 2017:

2.3 Construction Phase – Part 3 : Fit-out
Having built the structure of the new building, we must, of course, then do the fit-out. This will be done in stages as cash-flow permits.


a) All supporter areas, including toilet facilities, concourse catering facilities, turn-stiles, staircases, lifts, escalators, etc… in short, everything needed to allow our supporters to safely attend home games, is scheduled to be completed by the end of August, 2017.
b) The other priority areas required for the end of August are the main entrance hall, the Directors’ Suite, Media Centre and the front Piazza.

OUR PLAN IS TO BE “OPEN FOR BUSINESS” ON 9TH SEPTEMBER 2017.
c) The next key target date is mid-January 2018, at which point our new hospitality suites will hopefully all be completed, along with the new player facilities.
HOSPITALITY TARGET DATE IS 20TH JANUARY 2018.
d) Final deliverables will be the Tynecastle Nursery, the new Club Shop and the new Community Services space.
OVERALL COMPLETION IS SCHEDULED FOR 30TH MARCH 2018.

[MSK]

A £3M wall? Just how long is it?****ing £3m !! Who built it, Hadrian ? 😲

[Scott Allan Key]

She tells porkies. I can assure you its 19541 max including restricted view. People can use FOIs to check the safety certification papers dear Doctor so lets be honest for once.

Anyone a Wikipedia editor care to correct their stadium capacity with citations?

[G B Young]

They really are a gullible (and arrogant) lot. Wee bit unrest in the squad too I'm hearing :cb

The reaction on kickback is predictably fawning and uncritical with a few exceptions. There's one poster, Francis Albert, who tends to voice reasonable concerns quite regularly (amazed he's not been punted) and has this to say:

AB says the new stand will be churning out money by 2020. But until a few months ago this was to be largely due to new hospitality facilities, which I always thought over-optimistic given that the Gorgie Suite does not regularly sell out. Now in another "lightbulb moment" we have decided the Gorgie Suite is in fact a better venue for the "Match Day Experience" than the newly designed main stand facilities, Instead we are scaling back hospitality facilities and relying on selling space to third parties for exhibitions and conferences and other third party business uses. On what basis have we decided there is profitable demand for these things in a district of town in which commercial premises are not obviously prospering?

[jacomo]

No she isn't [emoji16]


IIRC she’s waived some of the interest for now, but not converted her total sum into an interest free loan.

Mind you, she must be starting to wonder when she will ever get that cash back.

And the ‘mysterious benefactor’ line continues to puzzle me. Whoever it is could get naming rights or some other big return for their £3m. Why didn’t they?

[CropleyWasGod]

IIRC she’s waived some of the interest for now, but not converted her total sum into an interest free loan.

Mind you, she must be starting to wonder when she will ever get that cash back.

And the ‘mysterious benefactor’ line continues to puzzle me. Whoever it is could get naming rights or some other big return for their £3m. Why didn’t they?She has waived all of the interest until at least May. What happens after that...we don't know.

As for the second part... not everyone wants something for their money. Perhaps ensuring the completion of the stand was enough for them. It's a personal thing, but if it were me I think I'd prefer to stay anonymous.


It's not me.

[truehibernian]

The reaction on kickback is predictably fawning and uncritical with a few exceptions. There's one poster, Francis Albert, who tends to voice reasonable concerns quite regularly (amazed he's not been punted) and has this to say:

AB says the new stand will be churning out money by 2020. But until a few months ago this was to be largely due to new hospitality facilities, which I always thought over-optimistic given that the Gorgie Suite does not regularly sell out. Now in another "lightbulb moment" we have decided the Gorgie Suite is in fact a better venue for the "Match Day Experience" than the newly designed main stand facilities, Instead we are scaling back hospitality facilities and relying on selling space to third parties for exhibitions and conferences and other third party business uses. On what basis have we decided there is profitable demand for these things in a district of town in which commercial premises are not obviously prospering?

I had a wee read of the Q&A and I had to laugh at the statement about Levein being liked and taking and interest in players, etc...........I spoke with the father of a first team Hearts player last month and many of the players (and parents) cannot stand him. Said father is a Hearts season ticket holder and he was scathing about Levein and the way he is treating certain players. Budge is very very naive in that sense.

[WhileTheChief..]

Which 50% of Edinburgh brides/grooms would refuse to even look at as a venue.

Said it before, some of her decisions make me wonder how Budge became such a wealthy businesswoman.


90%

Somebody forgot to tell us :na na:

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/pages/weddingsparties

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/pages/meetings

[Bostonhibby]

No she isn't [emoji16]She will be though.☺

Imagine having a 100% secured debt when you controlled when to start collecting.

Wonga could only dream.....

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

An overall capacity of exactly 20,000? Aye ok A(nn).Family yam swears blind it's around 19500 but far better quality than ER. He's moved up a few hundred but essentially nowts changed.

Pleasing.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

****ing £3m !! Who built it, Hadrian ? [emoji44]Adrian. Lives in his elderly mothers basement. Got a nice line in knitted maroon jumpers. Faux leather driving gloves and does a great 1-5 on one hand.

Can't lay one brick on top of another but is a stadium design expert down gorgie way.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[O'Rourke3]

She has waived all of the interest until at least May. What happens after that...we don't know.

As for the second part... not everyone wants something for their money. Perhaps ensuring the completion of the stand was enough for them. It's a personal thing, but if it were me I think I'd prefer to stay anonymous.


It's not me.

Alex Salmond fully funded by Russia Today who has the mysterious backer a Russian sub mariner who made his fortune Lithuania and Latvia

[jgl07]

The whole fiasco is a **** up of biblical proportions and she is a glib and shameless liar.

She must have Chemical Ali writing those press releases.

Not all the puddle drinkers are as thick as she thinks.

The penny will eventually drop.

All in all as far as I am concerned her ownership of Hearts has been a resounding success.

All hail the good doctor and more power to her delusion I say.

You are thinking of Comical Ali.

[Winston Ingram]

The whole fiasco is a **** up of biblical proportions and she is a glib and shameless liar.

She must have Chemical Ali writing those press releases.

Not all the puddle drinkers are as thick as she thinks.

The penny will eventually drop.

All in all as far as I am concerned her ownership of Hearts has been a resounding success.

All hail the good doctor and more power to her delusion I say.

Really? They went through 10 years of the ‘owe it to ourselves’ era and not many saw that coming.👀

[green day]

Somebody forgot to tell us :na na:

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/pages/weddingsparties

http://www.hibernianfc.co.uk/pages/meetings

I still don't think it should be one of the main revenue drivers for your main stand if you run a football club.

[Sioux]

Looks like the Yams have descended back into Vlad mode. 'Our leader is always right. All hail the leader'

Ann Jong Un.

[lapsedhibee]

If they finish bottom 6, with poor ST sales it could be a downward spiral.

Still arithmetically possible for St Johnstone to finish 6th.

[jacomo]

She has waived all of the interest until at least May. What happens after that...we don't know.

As for the second part... not everyone wants something for their money. Perhaps ensuring the completion of the stand was enough for them. It's a personal thing, but if it were me I think I'd prefer to stay anonymous.


It's not me.


It’s not me either.

It’s an incredible slice of good fortune though. The club nearly gets liquidated and then 3 years later a Hearts minded philanthropist drops £3m into the pot.

[CropleyWasGod]

It’s not me either.

It’s an incredible slice of good fortune though. The club nearly gets liquidated and then 3 years later a Hearts minded philanthropist drops £3m into the pot.If they'd done it back then, it would have made no difference. This time, it has.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[mutley]

So if the capacity is 20,000 now, she also said that to build the new TV area will mean removing seats at the back of the stand, how many will they need to remove?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[leither17]

Still arithmetically possible for St Johnstone to finish 6th.

Motherwell too

[Jack]

So if the capacity is 20,000 now, she also said that to build the new TV area will mean removing seats at the back of the stand, how many will they need to remove?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

-422

[Peevemor]

So if the capacity is 20,000 now, she also said that to build the new TV area will mean removing seats at the back of the stand, how many will they need to remove?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

Potter reckons 460.

[dchibs]

Small to medium conference space is probably in ample supply and there will be many many existing venues operating in that market. Large conference space (EICC stylee)is probably still under supplied.

Anyway it sounds like a typical fall back answer. Clearly they have no idea what the space is to be used for as they have realised AFTER building it that it really wasn’t suitable for their intended use.

I think it’s safe to say the second floor won’t be getting fitted out or used in any meaningful way for a long time.

And as for the TV Studio plans...did I read that correctly in that they are now planning to retro fit that into the back of the stand? The same stand that has no dedicated directors access so I’m assuming there will be zero dedicated access for the TV pundits, crew and equipment all of which will need to use the standard stairways that the fans use to access their seats....that sounds like a brilliant plan!

Did they not draw up plans to put the TV studio in between the floodligts.

[green&left]

Did they not draw up plans to put the TV studio in between the floodligts.

Could be wrong but I think I read you have to have 1 facing the pitch, i'd imagine with non-restricted views. Don't think i've ever seen a game on Sky Sports were the presenters can't see 50% of the pitch due to the fact there is a rusting steel flood light pillar blocking their view. Still, Hearts have been full of firsts with this project so this could be another one...

[Ozyhibby]

Did they not draw up plans to put the TV studio in between the floodligts.

Think that has now been scrapped and it’s going in the middle of the new stand up the back cutting their small capacity even further. Usually an architect thinks of all these thing before they start building but the yams appear to be going a different way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[EH54]

Even then AB has said this is a preferred option which makes me think its not even past the planning stage.

[Jones28]

Motherwell too

Either option and I would piss myself laughing.

Although it is about time we were beating them at Tynecastle so it would be a shame to not get the chance to.

[GreenCastle]

Think that has now been scrapped and it’s going in the middle of the new stand up the back cutting their small capacity even further. Usually an architect thinks of all these thing before they start building but the yams appear to be going a different way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The application was submitted between the floodlights- have they changed their minds ?

So they have spent £15 million and rising still (nursery - new tv studio - control room scaling back) and they have increased capacity by around 3,000 but they have decided to keep hospitality in the old Gorgie Suite - sounds like they are reallly preparing for the future ! Does that mean I have to cancel my table reservation for the castle view (of the school). Shambles F.C.

[dchibs]

Family yam swears blind it's around 19500 but far better quality than ER. He's moved up a few hundred but essentially nowts changed.

Pleasing.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

And what does he get that I don't get from my seat in the East stand, one thing is for sure its not better football or a better atmosphere.

[Bostonhibby]

And what does he get that I don't get from my seat in the East stand, one thing is for sure its not better football or a better atmosphere.He rarely goes to games. It's his golf day☺

Wife and kids go to ER☺

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[Sergio sledge]

Did they not draw up plans to put the TV studio in between the floodligts.

Yes but they had to scrap that when they realised that it would make more seats in the new stand restricted view... and also it would have the structural elements of the main roof supports right through the middle of it!

[greenginger]

Think that has now been scrapped and it’s going in the middle of the new stand up the back cutting their small capacity even further. Usually an architect thinks of all these thing before they start building but the yams appear to be going a different way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

That's a pity. Looking at the plans for the TV studio built into the stand support column, it showed the removal of pieces of cross sectional strutting to form some floor space for the broadcasters.

That could have brought down the roofs of the Roseburn stand and the Budge folly in a one large heap. :greengrin

[fat freddy]

So let me get this straight.
They built a new stand with the intention of increasing capacity and providing matchday hospitality in new state of the art suites which would generate an extra £1M per year?

But now its been decided to leave the new suites empty and use them for conferences which it isn't suitable for them to host for a whole load of reasons?

So, in effect, they have paid £15M for a rusty single tier stand with no hospitality, no TV studio, no new Police box and a couple of long rooms with pillars in them?

And the loyal fans praise her for being open, honest and transparent?

Can you imagine this place if Rod had made such a mess of our re build?

[dchibs]

He rarely goes to games. It's his golf day☺

Wife and kids go to ER☺

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

So hes just a typical yam slaver, I'm glad his wife and kids noticed that as well.

[EH54]

@fat freddy

No your way off the mark, AB has recently said that the new stands will generate around 2.5m - 3m extra per year once fully operational.

[Bostonhibby]

So hes just a typical yam slaver, I'm glad his wife and kids noticed that as well.Aye he generally is, a product of the vlad years where he was a bit more vocal. TBH he is not convinced by the good doctor and is also a DD canceller so not all bad[emoji4]

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[FilipinoHibs]

It’s not me either.

It’s an incredible slice of good fortune though. The club nearly gets liquidated and then 3 years later a Hearts minded philanthropist drops £3m into the pot.
Is anybody still falling for the anonymous story? We all know gave that very round 3 mill.

[Alan62]

The latest revelations from Auld Annie's Q&A are, what's the word? Oh, yes, 'pleasing'. Very pleasing indeed. The shambles continues and they suck it up. I'm actually quite glad that they aren't calling her out over all this. Just means that this thread will run for quite some time to come.

[FilipinoHibs]

If they'd done it back then, it would have made no difference. This time, it has.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
They would have not needed Budge and the DDs. They could have given the club straight to the fans for a nominal amount and plenty of change left over.

[brog]

Is anybody still falling for the anonymous story? We all know gave that very round 3 mill.

It was Ann Onymous! Maybe we should change to Ann Ominous!

[One Day Soon]

That is unbelievable if true.
Also the statement that Edinburgh lacks conference facilities - can't be true surely? There are tons of hotels just for starters.

That, I can confirm , is absolute horse5hite.

There is very, very stiff competition between conference venues in Edinburgh already. Without even trying particularly here are just some:

Murrayfield - multiple conference suites
Easter Road

Hotels:
Caledonian
Grosvenor
Sheraton
Hospitality Inn (2)
George Hotel (as was)
Carlton Barcelo (as was) North Bridge
At least two of the Apex Hotels have conference suites
Macdonald Holyrood Hotel
Novotel Edinburgh Park
DoubleTree by Hilton at the Airport
the old Dragonara at Belford Road (formerly Eugene Lampard's Renault garage for Hibbies of a certain age)

Miscellaneous venues:
Edinburgh Training Centre
At least three major law firms have Edinburgh conference suites
At least three major financial services companies have conference suites
RBS conference centre, Gogar
Council: City Chambers and Assembly Rooms
A couple of Housing Associations have conference suites
NHS Scotland has conference facilities
Church of Scotland has conferencing facilities
Norton Park conference centre next to ER
Edinburgh International Conference Centre
Royal Highland Showground has conference suites
Edinburgh Zoo conference centre

Then there are others like:
Surgeon's Hall (multiple venues)
Edinburgh Centre for Carbon Innovation
Edinburgh Corn Exchange (multiple venues)

Universities:
Edinburgh (multiple venues)
Heriot-Watt (multiple venues)
Edinburgh Napier University
Queen Margaret University


Trust me, I didn't even need to think about that list too hard. There are many, many others catering extensively to the high, mid and low ends of the conferencing market.

Of course few if any of them can compete with the Heartswarts staircase to nowhere.

[Famous Fiver]

AB may have temporarily waived some interest repayments but I would not be in the least surprised if there is not some sort of agreement that this will be recouped in spades once the new share issue becomes a reality. However long away that is we don't know yet, it is a moving feast. What we can safely assume is that at present she owns the whole lot, lock stock and barrel, and will very much control what happens in the medium to longer term. There is no way she will lose out personally.

The people losing out financially, in my opinion, are the punters presently lobbing money in with no tangible return, other than the satisfaction of helping her out financially, while she retains ownership of the whole shooting match.

She has pulled off a major coup, in my opinion.

[CropleyWasGod]

They would have not needed Budge and the DDs. They could have given the club straight to the fans for a nominal amount and plenty of change left over.

Perhaps the donor didn't want that; that they were happy for someone else to take the reins. If it were me, I certainly wouldn't be keen on the club being taken over by "the fans". That would be a disastrous route IMO.

And, if the secured creditor was aware that there was potentially more money available, they would have held out for more than they eventually got.

Besides, I thought you said the donor was Budge ?:greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

The application was submitted between the floodlights- have they changed their minds ?

So they have spent £15 million and rising still (nursery - new tv studio - control room scaling back) and they have increased capacity by around 3,000 but they have decided to keep hospitality in the old Gorgie Suite - sounds like they are reallly preparing for the future ! Does that mean I have to cancel my table reservation for the castle view (of the school). Shambles F.C.

It’s not even gone up by 3000. The derby was an 18600 sell out.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Alan62]

Is anybody still falling for the anonymous story? We all know gave that very round 3 mill.

Lots of people think they know who made the anonymous donations. Names have been bandied about, hints have been given, theories advanced. If we all knew who gave the money, it would no longer be anonymous. You clearly think you know who it was but I'd be willing to bet that you're wide of the mark.

[EH54]

if 18600 was a sell out and AB has said that they can only sell 95% of the stadium capacity at the moment that bring there capacity up-to 19500 and that's being generous. They are kidding themselves if they think that stadium holds 20,000 especially when they are about to rip out a few rows for a media box and create a new exit for the directors. all of which will result in loss of seats.

[One Day Soon]

Lots of people think they know who made the anonymous donations. Names have been bandied about, hints have been given, theories advanced. If we all knew who gave the money, it would no longer be anonymous. You clearly think you know who it was but I'd be willing to bet that you're wide of the mark.

Really? Who has their names in the frame?

[Winston Ingram]

Lots of people think they know who made the anonymous donations. Names have been bandied about, hints have been given, theories advanced. If we all knew who gave the money, it would no longer be anonymous. You clearly think you know who it was but I'd be willing to bet that you're wide of the mark.

Why i think it is the obvious is solely down to the lack of investors prepared to come forward when they were dying. If the amounts of these donations are to be believed then it would have more than saved them at that time.

[Carheenlea]

If they hadn’t banged on relentlessly about a stand that would give them a 20,000+ capacity stadium, and their fans whipping themselves into a frenzy about having more seats than Easter Road, I don’t think Hibs fans would have cared less if the capacity of Tynecastle was bigger or smaller than Easter Road by a few hundred seats. For most reasonably thinking folk, both grounds are similar in size.

[CropleyWasGod]

Why i think it is the obvious is solely down to the lack of investors prepared to come forward when they were dying. If the amounts of these donations are to be believed then it would have more than saved them at that time.

No it wouldn't.

The amount of the debt (c £30m) was so much that a further few million wouldn't have made any difference to the eventual outcome. It would have gone to the secured creditor, who was owed about £8m IIRC.

Any potential investor or donor with any sense would have seen that, and kept their money for a time when it would make a difference.

[Alan62]

Really? Who has their names in the frame?

Budge, obv. Lots of folks speculating about the link with the Rosebery family - you know how they issued a strip in his colours which made them look like Battenburg Cakes. I have also hinted fairly heavily on this thread that folks should be turning their gaze towards a fund management firm that's nearer our home than Tinycastle. My story, unlike the Rosebery speculation, has its roots in first-hand source fact and is consistent with the anonymity angle. After all, who'd give their money to a fund manager who chooses to ***** his giant bonus on such an ill-considered project? :cb

[CropleyWasGod]

Budge, obv. Lots of folks speculating about the link with the Rosebery family - you know how they issued a strip in his colours which made them look like Battenburg Cakes. I have also hinted fairly heavily on this thread that folks should be turning their gaze towards a fund management firm that's nearer our home than Tinycastle. My story, unlike the Rosebery speculation, has its roots in first-hand source fact and is consistent with the anonymity angle. After all, who'd give their money to a fund manager who chooses to ***** his giant bonus on such an ill-considered project? :cb

Not doubting you, as you have your sources, but Devil's Advocate question....

Why would they give the money?

(other than the blind loyalty of a fitba supporter, of course :greengrin)

[greenginger]

Budge, obv. Lots of folks speculating about the link with the Rosebery family - you know how they issued a strip in his colours which made them look like Battenburg Cakes. I have also hinted fairly heavily on this thread that folks should be turning their gaze towards a fund management firm that's nearer our home than Tinycastle. My story, unlike the Rosebery speculation, has its roots in first-hand source fact and is consistent with the anonymity angle. After all, who'd give their money to a fund manager who chooses to ***** his giant bonus on such an ill-considered project? :cb


To be clear , your saying your information is that the fund manager donated his own bonus to the New Stand cost over run , and was not using the funds he is managing to prop up the project.

[Jack Hackett]

AB may have temporarily waived some interest repayments but I would not be in the least surprised if there is not some sort of agreement that this will be recouped in spades once the new share issue becomes a reality. However long away that is we don't know yet, it is a moving feast. What we can safely assume is that at present she owns the whole lot, lock stock and barrel, and will very much control what happens in the medium to longer term. There is no way she will lose out personally.

The people losing out financially, in my opinion, are the punters presently lobbing money in with no tangible return, other than the satisfaction of helping her out financially, while she retains ownership of the whole shooting match.

She has pulled off a major coup, in my opinion.

The people losing financially now are those who benefitted from the cheating years. Karma really is a bitch... They are paying through the nose now for inferior teams and infrastructure. Long may it continue.

[Alan62]

Why would they give the money?

(other than the blind loyalty of a fitba supporter, of course :greengrin)

My understanding is that the wealthy contributors approached Budge through a third party offering their support for her project. In reality they only did what Jambos of all shapes and sizes from L to XXXL are doing month in and month out, giving a big chunk of their personal cash purely for the love of the club.

Presumably, there comes a point on the wealth curve when you've pretty much got everything you actually need or want and you have to go looking for new things to spend your cash on. For the fine chaps in question, it probably isn't too big a deal handing over a sizeable chunk of money as another bonus will be along shortly.

[Alan62]

To be clear , your saying your information is that the fund manager donated his own bonus to the New Stand cost over run , and was not using the funds he is managing to prop up the project.

Personal cash only. Absolutely. Fund-owned cash would be impossible. There would be a paper trail as long as this thread if it was the fund's money.

[FilipinoHibs]

No it wouldn't.

The amount of the debt (c £30m) was so much that a further few million wouldn't have made any difference to the eventual outcome. It would have gone to the secured creditor, who was owed about £8m IIRC.

Any potential investor or donor with any sense would have seen that, and kept their money for a time when it would make a difference.

They would have stepped in during admin and offered at least what Budge offered avoiding DDs and having her control things. They could have given control of club there and then to the fans. The round 3 mill in two installments does not add up. It is clearly Budge via disguised mediums because the new shed was going to fall flat on its face without that money. That would not only make her look even more ridiculous but undermine the whole FOH Dds.

[Peevemor]

They would have stepped in during admin and offered at least what Budge offered avoiding DDs and having her control things. They could have given control of club there and then to the fans. The round 3 mill in two installments does not add up. It is clearly Budge via disguised mediums because the new shed was going to fall flat on its face without that money. That would not only make her look even more ridiculous but undermine the whole FOH Dds.


Maybe they (whoever they are and if they exist) don't want to control things. Also, it's one thing being in a position to give a couple of million quid away without it affecting your lifestyle, but having enough financial clout to prop up a football club (particularly one whose supporters have ideas above their station) with no banking/borrowing facilities is a different thing altogether.

[CropleyWasGod]

They would have stepped in during admin and offered at least what Budge offered avoiding DDs and having her control things. They could have given control of club there and then to the fans. The round 3 mill in two installments does not add up. It is clearly Budge via disguised mediums because the new shed was going to fall flat on its face without that money. That would not only make her look even more ridiculous but undermine the whole FOH Dds.

As I said previously, maybe they were happy with AB being in charge. Why let the fans take charge, with the potential disaster that might have been?

Your speculation, as that is what it is, might be correct. But there is nothing in the public domain to support it. However, there is evidence to support the view that it wasn't her.

[CropleyWasGod]

My understanding is that the wealthy contributors approached Budge through a third party offering their support for her project. In reality they only did what Jambos of all shapes and sizes from L to XXXL are doing month in and month out, giving a big chunk of their personal cash purely for the love of the club.

Presumably, there comes a point on the wealth curve when you've pretty much got everything you actually need or want and you have to go looking for new things to spend your cash on. For the fine chaps in question, it probably isn't too big a deal handing over a sizeable chunk of money as another bonus will be along shortly.

Cheers.

It makes sense. As you said, it can only be speculation for us mortals. However, it does back up the statement that this was about donors, plural, and not a single person.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Absolute belter of a thread over on keekboak started by a serial Potter abuser. He may be a nut job but he nails it perfectly and has their sychophants in a lather.
"
23 hours ago, Ian Kelman said:
I am writing for the first time in Kickback as my many writings to the board over several years stating my name, address and signing my letters, has been ignored. The club's board only seem interested in praise, not criticism i.e. sycophants. Not my style! A compliant Glasgow / Edinburgh press has a conflict of interest, i.e. be nice to club boards and managers or no access to interviews. So what truths are fans not informed of? It was suggested I write to Kickback. If your only interested in reading short posts, venture no further, for explaining the malaise takes longer.

About me

I'm 71 years of age. My first Tynecastle attendance was with my dad at the age of 8. For many years my Saturdays were spent following Hearts home and away from Dumfries to Aberdeen. In the 90's I went to university as a mature student attaining a business management degree. I gave up my season ticket to fund being a student, as every day I travelled to Dundee and back by train. It was my intention, on completion of my studies to renew my season ticket, but four years on, my life was different, and what followed later (Romanov) gave me no reason to return.

Through the Mercer, Robinson and Romanov years I openly criticised the business running of Hearts via the Pink News, a confrontation with Mercer on TV's 'Sport in Question', and two - one hour interviews on Scot FM. I feel passionately about Hearts and the way the club is run – nothing has changed.

I write in the second person (you) for the reasons I proffer below. I will not put a penny into Hearts while, in my opinion, it continues to be mismanaged at team and club board level. Because of this, I feel I do not have the right to use the word 'we'.

Ann Budge

Personally I found Ann Budge's season ticket appeal embarrassing. All that was missing was her beggar's patch on Princes Street with an out-stretched hand holding a cap (Hearts tartan) begging for your dosh! I believe her omissions hide a gross mis-management of Hearts both at team and at club board level.

Hearts, the third largest supported club in Scotland hasn't won the league title since 1960 - 58 years ago. Since then, and with lesser fan bases, Dundee, Kilmarnock, Dundee Utd. has won it once, and Aberdeen three times. In that time, board after board has failed Hearts fans. Newly promoted Hibs are 10 points clear with a game in hand, a better team, a better manager, and a better run club. Four years on, I do not for one second believe that Ann Budge is the saviour of Hearts. Indeed I ask a more pertinent question – is she and the board fit for purpose?

If supporters continue to loyally buy season tickets and contribute to the F.o.H., the mediocrity and regress of the last four years will prevail. What a load of tosh Mrs Budge expounds! Fans do not own Hearts and never will. The board only need you when they need your money. If fans own Hearts - What say did fans have in its building costs you helped pay for? £12m then £14m, then £15m,- how much more?

What should have come first was the appointment of a quality manager with a winning pedigree and no D.o.F.. Followed by money spent on quality players. Success attracts more fans and increases revenues. The time to build a new stand is when capacity is regularly approaching full, for then success and increased revenues create a sound base for prudent forward planning. I believe the new stand is an extravagant wasteful edifice that could have been built for much less than £15m with remaining monies contributing to being spent on players and a new pitch.

Instead, as seen in the Partick match with actual attendance circa 14,000 or even less, due to the 600 free Big Hearts Day tickets. The sparseness told its own story.

17/3/18 v Partick (H) stated attendance was 17,179 which equates to 85.25% capacity. This officially brings the average crowd since the stand opened to 16,647 = 82.61% average capacity. But when the truth shows it to be circa 14,000 bums on seats the average crowd becomes 16,325 = 81% or less - average capacity.

Ann Budge and the club board spent £15m on, ego and image before needs, structure before players, i.e. your money wasted! Your dreams abused, Let me explain;

C.E.O. Budge has an insane and/or besotted respect for Levein. His CV was poor!

Budge putting Levein on the club's board creates a conflict of interest.

Levein appointing two inexperienced rookies to the important post of manager of Hearts. What competent C.E.O. would countenance that?

The waste of paying two salaries to a D.o.F. and inexperienced rookie team managers for 3.5 years that ended in failure was D.o.F and C.E.O. approved.

The shocking waste of signings and contracts for less than average players. How responsible was the D.o.F. in this? How blind to Levein is Budge?

With Levein now team manager, suddenly a D.o.F. was no longer needed.

The unnecessary and exorbitant cost of the new stand in relation to attendance revenues that appear to potentially cover only circa 80% capacity. C.E.O. approved.

The omission of competitive tender of the extravagant new stand C.E.O. approved.

The construction of the new stand allegedly built by Budge's brother's company. It not going out to competitive tender is nepotism. It begs a question. Who all profited?

The incompetences that prevailed by mistakes, delays in schedules, additional over-time costs, more rent paid out for Murrayfield, the race for use fiasco, and the farcical continuing malaise. Overseeing this was/is C.E.O.' Budge's remit.

Assisted by F.o.H. money, the lack of consultation given to F.o.H. members in costs and pricing policy, resulting in at least 25% over budget was C.E.O. approved.

It is not unreasonable to believe that Levein is guilty of the same accusations he twice publicly accused his players at Hearts and Dundee United of, i.e. "cheating their employer and taking money under false pretences." Just as he appeared to have done when supposedly managing Scotland. Paid a lot, but returned little. Regress not progress. In signing Levein, what was C.E.O. Budge thinking of?

The above comedy of errors were all approved by Budge. Is she fit for purpose?"

Answers on a postcard
...

[SirDavidsNapper]

Absolute belter of a thread over on keekboak started by a serial Potter abuser. He may be a nut job but he nails it perfectly and has their sychophants in a lather.
"
23 hours ago, Ian Kelman said:
I am writing for the first time in Kickback as my many writings to the board over several years stating my name, address and signing my letters, has been ignored. The club's board only seem interested in praise, not criticism i.e. sycophants. Not my style! A compliant Glasgow / Edinburgh press has a conflict of interest, i.e. be nice to club boards and managers or no access to interviews. So what truths are fans not informed of? It was suggested I write to Kickback. If your only interested in reading short posts, venture no further, for explaining the malaise takes longer.

About me

I'm 71 years of age. My first Tynecastle attendance was with my dad at the age of 8. For many years my Saturdays were spent following Hearts home and away from Dumfries to Aberdeen. In the 90's I went to university as a mature student attaining a business management degree. I gave up my season ticket to fund being a student, as every day I travelled to Dundee and back by train. It was my intention, on completion of my studies to renew my season ticket, but four years on, my life was different, and what followed later (Romanov) gave me no reason to return.

Through the Mercer, Robinson and Romanov years I openly criticised the business running of Hearts via the Pink News, a confrontation with Mercer on TV's 'Sport in Question', and two - one hour interviews on Scot FM. I feel passionately about Hearts and the way the club is run – nothing has changed.

I write in the second person (you) for the reasons I proffer below. I will not put a penny into Hearts while, in my opinion, it continues to be mismanaged at team and club board level. Because of this, I feel I do not have the right to use the word 'we'.

Ann Budge

Personally I found Ann Budge's season ticket appeal embarrassing. All that was missing was her beggar's patch on Princes Street with an out-stretched hand holding a cap (Hearts tartan) begging for your dosh! I believe her omissions hide a gross mis-management of Hearts both at team and at club board level.

Hearts, the third largest supported club in Scotland hasn't won the league title since 1960 - 58 years ago. Since then, and with lesser fan bases, Dundee, Kilmarnock, Dundee Utd. has won it once, and Aberdeen three times. In that time, board after board has failed Hearts fans. Newly promoted Hibs are 10 points clear with a game in hand, a better team, a better manager, and a better run club. Four years on, I do not for one second believe that Ann Budge is the saviour of Hearts. Indeed I ask a more pertinent question – is she and the board fit for purpose?

If supporters continue to loyally buy season tickets and contribute to the F.o.H., the mediocrity and regress of the last four years will prevail. What a load of tosh Mrs Budge expounds! Fans do not own Hearts and never will. The board only need you when they need your money. If fans own Hearts - What say did fans have in its building costs you helped pay for? £12m then £14m, then £15m,- how much more?

What should have come first was the appointment of a quality manager with a winning pedigree and no D.o.F.. Followed by money spent on quality players. Success attracts more fans and increases revenues. The time to build a new stand is when capacity is regularly approaching full, for then success and increased revenues create a sound base for prudent forward planning. I believe the new stand is an extravagant wasteful edifice that could have been built for much less than £15m with remaining monies contributing to being spent on players and a new pitch.

Instead, as seen in the Partick match with actual attendance circa 14,000 or even less, due to the 600 free Big Hearts Day tickets. The sparseness told its own story.

17/3/18 v Partick (H) stated attendance was 17,179 which equates to 85.25% capacity. This officially brings the average crowd since the stand opened to 16,647 = 82.61% average capacity. But when the truth shows it to be circa 14,000 bums on seats the average crowd becomes 16,325 = 81% or less - average capacity.

Ann Budge and the club board spent £15m on, ego and image before needs, structure before players, i.e. your money wasted! Your dreams abused, Let me explain;

C.E.O. Budge has an insane and/or besotted respect for Levein. His CV was poor!

Budge putting Levein on the club's board creates a conflict of interest.

Levein appointing two inexperienced rookies to the important post of manager of Hearts. What competent C.E.O. would countenance that?

The waste of paying two salaries to a D.o.F. and inexperienced rookie team managers for 3.5 years that ended in failure was D.o.F and C.E.O. approved.

The shocking waste of signings and contracts for less than average players. How responsible was the D.o.F. in this? How blind to Levein is Budge?

With Levein now team manager, suddenly a D.o.F. was no longer needed.

The unnecessary and exorbitant cost of the new stand in relation to attendance revenues that appear to potentially cover only circa 80% capacity. C.E.O. approved.

The omission of competitive tender of the extravagant new stand C.E.O. approved.

The construction of the new stand allegedly built by Budge's brother's company. It not going out to competitive tender is nepotism. It begs a question. Who all profited?

The incompetences that prevailed by mistakes, delays in schedules, additional over-time costs, more rent paid out for Murrayfield, the race for use fiasco, and the farcical continuing malaise. Overseeing this was/is C.E.O.' Budge's remit.

Assisted by F.o.H. money, the lack of consultation given to F.o.H. members in costs and pricing policy, resulting in at least 25% over budget was C.E.O. approved.

It is not unreasonable to believe that Levein is guilty of the same accusations he twice publicly accused his players at Hearts and Dundee United of, i.e. "cheating their employer and taking money under false pretences." Just as he appeared to have done when supposedly managing Scotland. Paid a lot, but returned little. Regress not progress. In signing Levein, what was C.E.O. Budge thinking of?

The above comedy of errors were all approved by Budge. Is she fit for purpose?"

Answers on a postcard
...

Are they only just realising this?

[Alan62]

Are they only just realising this?

Move along. Nothing to see here. Mr Kelman is a bampot. There's very little truth in what he says. Some mistakes have been made on the road to the Promised Land but that was to be expected. Ann is still the Queen. All hail Queen Ann! She's doing a fine job. Long may it continue.

[SuperAllyMcleod]

Absolute belter of a thread over on keekboak started by a serial Potter abuser. He may be a nut job but he nails it perfectly and has their sychophants in a lather.
"
23 hours ago, Ian Kelman said:
I am writing for the first time in Kickback as my many writings to the board over several years stating my name, address and signing my letters, has been ignored. The club's board only seem interested in praise, not criticism i.e. sycophants. Not my style! A compliant Glasgow / Edinburgh press has a conflict of interest, i.e. be nice to club boards and managers or no access to interviews. So what truths are fans not informed of? It was suggested I write to Kickback. If your only interested in reading short posts, venture no further, for explaining the malaise takes longer.

About me

I'm 71 years of age. My first Tynecastle attendance was with my dad at the age of 8. For many years my Saturdays were spent following Hearts home and away from Dumfries to Aberdeen. In the 90's I went to university as a mature student attaining a business management degree. I gave up my season ticket to fund being a student, as every day I travelled to Dundee and back by train. It was my intention, on completion of my studies to renew my season ticket, but four years on, my life was different, and what followed later (Romanov) gave me no reason to return.

Through the Mercer, Robinson and Romanov years I openly criticised the business running of Hearts via the Pink News, a confrontation with Mercer on TV's 'Sport in Question', and two - one hour interviews on Scot FM. I feel passionately about Hearts and the way the club is run – nothing has changed.

I write in the second person (you) for the reasons I proffer below. I will not put a penny into Hearts while, in my opinion, it continues to be mismanaged at team and club board level. Because of this, I feel I do not have the right to use the word 'we'.

Ann Budge

Personally I found Ann Budge's season ticket appeal embarrassing. All that was missing was her beggar's patch on Princes Street with an out-stretched hand holding a cap (Hearts tartan) begging for your dosh! I believe her omissions hide a gross mis-management of Hearts both at team and at club board level.

Hearts, the third largest supported club in Scotland hasn't won the league title since 1960 - 58 years ago. Since then, and with lesser fan bases, Dundee, Kilmarnock, Dundee Utd. has won it once, and Aberdeen three times. In that time, board after board has failed Hearts fans. Newly promoted Hibs are 10 points clear with a game in hand, a better team, a better manager, and a better run club. Four years on, I do not for one second believe that Ann Budge is the saviour of Hearts. Indeed I ask a more pertinent question – is she and the board fit for purpose?

If supporters continue to loyally buy season tickets and contribute to the F.o.H., the mediocrity and regress of the last four years will prevail. What a load of tosh Mrs Budge expounds! Fans do not own Hearts and never will. The board only need you when they need your money. If fans own Hearts - What say did fans have in its building costs you helped pay for? £12m then £14m, then £15m,- how much more?

What should have come first was the appointment of a quality manager with a winning pedigree and no D.o.F.. Followed by money spent on quality players. Success attracts more fans and increases revenues. The time to build a new stand is when capacity is regularly approaching full, for then success and increased revenues create a sound base for prudent forward planning. I believe the new stand is an extravagant wasteful edifice that could have been built for much less than £15m with remaining monies contributing to being spent on players and a new pitch.

Instead, as seen in the Partick match with actual attendance circa 14,000 or even less, due to the 600 free Big Hearts Day tickets. The sparseness told its own story.

17/3/18 v Partick (H) stated attendance was 17,179 which equates to 85.25% capacity. This officially brings the average crowd since the stand opened to 16,647 = 82.61% average capacity. But when the truth shows it to be circa 14,000 bums on seats the average crowd becomes 16,325 = 81% or less - average capacity.

Ann Budge and the club board spent £15m on, ego and image before needs, structure before players, i.e. your money wasted! Your dreams abused, Let me explain;

C.E.O. Budge has an insane and/or besotted respect for Levein. His CV was poor!

Budge putting Levein on the club's board creates a conflict of interest.

Levein appointing two inexperienced rookies to the important post of manager of Hearts. What competent C.E.O. would countenance that?

The waste of paying two salaries to a D.o.F. and inexperienced rookie team managers for 3.5 years that ended in failure was D.o.F and C.E.O. approved.

The shocking waste of signings and contracts for less than average players. How responsible was the D.o.F. in this? How blind to Levein is Budge?

With Levein now team manager, suddenly a D.o.F. was no longer needed.

The unnecessary and exorbitant cost of the new stand in relation to attendance revenues that appear to potentially cover only circa 80% capacity. C.E.O. approved.

The omission of competitive tender of the extravagant new stand C.E.O. approved.

The construction of the new stand allegedly built by Budge's brother's company. It not going out to competitive tender is nepotism. It begs a question. Who all profited?

The incompetences that prevailed by mistakes, delays in schedules, additional over-time costs, more rent paid out for Murrayfield, the race for use fiasco, and the farcical continuing malaise. Overseeing this was/is C.E.O.' Budge's remit.

Assisted by F.o.H. money, the lack of consultation given to F.o.H. members in costs and pricing policy, resulting in at least 25% over budget was C.E.O. approved.

It is not unreasonable to believe that Levein is guilty of the same accusations he twice publicly accused his players at Hearts and Dundee United of, i.e. "cheating their employer and taking money under false pretences." Just as he appeared to have done when supposedly managing Scotland. Paid a lot, but returned little. Regress not progress. In signing Levein, what was C.E.O. Budge thinking of?

The above comedy of errors were all approved by Budge. Is she fit for purpose?"

Answers on a postcard
...

This already has it’s own thread.

[greenginger]

Ian Kelman ! now there's a name from the past.

I remember him banging off letters to the scotsman and EEN tearing pieman a new one. :greengrin

[hibbyfraelibby]

Ian Kelman ! now there's a name from the past.

I remember him banging off letters to the scotsman and EEN tearing pieman a new one. :greengrin

I always suspected him of being the mystery roaster behind TOTT on EEN but obviously he is not.

Still a genuine roaster but a particularly good judge of an omni-shambles.

[jacomo]

Move along. Nothing to see here. Mr Kelman is a bampot. There's very little truth in what he says. Some mistakes have been made on the road to the Promised Land but that was to be expected. Ann is still the Queen. All hail Queen Ann! She's doing a fine job. Long may it continue.


Tbf his post is largely a rambling rant rather than a forensic look at the issues.

The new stand probably was a priority, given the safety concerns with the old one. And Robbie Neilson was a pretty successful appointment, all in all.

Still, his contribution should at least encourage more real fans to ask questions. Doubt it will though!

[Alan62]

Tbf his post is largely a rambling rant rather than a forensic look at the issues.

The new stand probably was a priority, given the safety concerns with the old one. And Robbie Neilson was a pretty successful appointment, all in all.

Still, his contribution should at least encourage more real fans to ask questions. Doubt it will though!

We don't want them to ask questions. We want them to keep the faith and get right behind Budge and Levein. Their track records should ensure a lot of fun for us for many years to come.

[Famous Fiver]

Should be an interesting encounter when they next meet in the paper shop.

Kelman might have to get a restraining order if Levein reverts to type.:take that

[hibees 7062]

Should be an interesting encounter when they next meet in the bookies
Kelman might have to get a restraining order if Levein reverts to type.:take that

Sorted :greengrin

[jgl07]

It’s not even gone up by 3000. The derby was an 18600 sell out.



It was 19,316

Celtic drew a crowd of 18,555.

[jacomo]

We don't want them to ask questions. We want them to keep the faith and get right behind Budge and Levein. Their track records should ensure a lot of fun for us for many years to come.


True. But they won’t listen to us anyway!

[Famous Fiver]

According to EEN tonight Levein stating that budget for new players WILL be impacted by money being spent on new stand. He is to sit down with AB to determine just how much is available apparently.

After months/years of assurances that there would be nothing of the no such which, that the stand was fully costed, budgeted for, funds in place, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah, what we have been trying to tell them is there in black and white. Welcome to the real world, boys.

I am sure somebody can oblige by putting up the link.

Wonder how that will go down with the deluded masses?

[Billy Whizz]

Think this was spoken about a couple of days ago!


http://www.heraldscotland.com/sport/football/16128111.New_Tynecastle_stand_could_earn_Hearts_ex tra___3m_per_year/

[greenginger]

Personal cash only. Absolutely. Fund-owned cash would be impossible. There would be a paper trail as long as this thread if it was the fund's money.


Personal cash yes, but did it find its way to HOMFC before the taxman got his 45% slice ?

[Sioux]

Personal cash yes, but did it find its way to HOMFC before the taxman got his 45% slice ?

What has income tax got to do with someone donating money to a non-charitable organisation?

[Billy Whizz]

What has income tax got to do with someone donating money to a non-charitable organisation?

I know what he means, but I’ll let him explain it in a better detail than me

[Sioux]

I know what he means, but I’ll let him explain it in a better detail than me

What am I missing?

[greenginger]

What has income tax got to do with someone donating money to a non-charitable organisation?


I just have a hunch that the donor would choose to forgo his bonus and ask his company to pass the bonus sum on to HOMFC.

Now Crops will know for sure, but I would think if the donor was directing his unpaid bonus to a certain destination, he would not be actually giving it up and income tax would still be due .

I don't know why I think those things when our neighbours are getting free money. Maybe the appointment of the senior tax partner at a big accountancy practice to the football club board just makes me suspicious .

[Sioux]

I just have a hunch that the donor would choose to forgo his bonus and ask his company to pass the bonus sum on to HOMFC.

Now Crops will know for sure, but I would think if the donor was directing his unpaid bonus to a certain destination, he would not be actually giving it up and income tax would still be due .

I don't know why I think those things when our neighbours are getting free money. Maybe the appointment of the senior tax partner at a big accountancy practice to the football club board just makes me suspicious .

If he was directing his bonus to elsewhere, he must have received it in the first place, otherwise he could not have directed it to anyone. A bit like me directing my employer to pay my salary into my wife's bank account. Bottom line he is entitled to his bonus and its taxable on him.

[007]

According to EEN tonight Levein stating that budget for new players WILL be impacted by money being spent on new stand. He is to sit down with AB to determine just how much is available apparently.

After months/years of assurances that there would be nothing of the no such which, that the stand was fully costed, budgeted for, funds in place, yaddah, yaddah, yaddah, what we have been trying to tell them is there in black and white. Welcome to the real world, boys.

I am sure somebody can oblige by putting up the link.

Wonder how that will go down with the deluded masses?

Getting his excuses in early to try and protect his job for a bit longer. A lot of Jambos already prepared to give him a summer transfer window to see how he gets on. Now they'll need to give him a summer window on a full budget not a reduced one so he should get at least until the end of 2019. I'd be happy with him staying until at least then.

[overdrive]

If he was directing his bonus to elsewhere, he must have received it in the first place, otherwise he could not have directed it to anyone. A bit like me directing my employer to pay my salary into my wife's bank account. Bottom line he is entitled to his bonus and its taxable on him.

I’ve come across a situation whereby staff have been able to give up money they are entitled to in order to avoid being taxed on it but I’m not sure if it is a peculiar rule to this specific sector. In universities, academics often carry out consultancy work. They are entitled to part of the fee received by the university for the consultancy work. What the academic can do though is knock this back and effectively ‘donate’ it to the university for use on some sort of research that they carry out. They aren’t taxed on this.

[CropleyWasGod]

I just have a hunch that the donor would choose to forgo his bonus and ask his company to pass the bonus sum on to HOMFC.

Now Crops will know for sure, but I would think if the donor was directing his unpaid bonus to a certain destination, he would not be actually giving it up and income tax would still be due .

I don't know why I think those things when our neighbours are getting free money. Maybe the appointment of the senior tax partner at a big accountancy practice to the football club board just makes me suspicious .If the donor decides that his bonus is to be given to a third party, the employer still has to deduct tax and NI in the normal way.

There's no difference between that situation and the employee passing it on themselves. The tax has been paid at source.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[CropleyWasGod]

I’ve come across a situation whereby staff have been able to give up money they are entitled to in order to avoid being taxed on it but I’m not sure if it is a peculiar rule to this specific sector. In universities, academics often carry out consultancy work. They are entitled to part of the fee received by the university for the consultancy work. What the academic can do though is knock this back and effectively ‘donate’ it to the university for use on some sort of research that they carry out. They aren’t taxed on this.The consultancy work is probably self-employed income. There's no tax payable because there's no income. The fee has been waived.

That's different from the employed situation, where there is income, which has been directed elsewhere. The employer has a duty to deduct and pay the tax.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[FilipinoHibs]

I’ve come across a situation whereby staff have been able to give up money they are entitled to in order to avoid being taxed on it but I’m not sure if it is a peculiar rule to this specific sector. In universities, academics often carry out consultancy work. They are entitled to part of the fee received by the university for the consultancy work. What the academic can do though is knock this back and effectively ‘donate’ it to the university for use on some sort of research that they carry out. They aren’t taxed on this.

lots of clever schemes to avoid tax on your bonus. Receive as insurance policy. You reddeem it a few days later. In shares etc. I hear the anonymous donors where all Goldman Sachs bankers who donated their bonuses in in a tax avoidance scheme to Hearts.

[Billy Whizz]

lots of clever schemes to avoid tax on your bonus. Receive as insurance policy. You reddeem it a few days later. In shares etc. I hear the anonymous donors where all Goldman Sachs bankers who donated their bonuses in in a tax avoidance scheme to Hearts.

????

[CropleyWasGod]

lots of clever schemes to avoid tax on your bonus. Receive as insurance policy. You reddeem it a few days later. In shares etc. I hear the anonymous donors where all Goldman Sachs bankers who donated their bonuses in in a tax avoidance scheme to Hearts.The classic way to avoid tax on a bonus is to sacrifice it and have the employer pay it into a pension scheme. However, the most cash you can have of that, tax-free, is 25%... and that's only for those over 55.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[WhileTheChief..]

The classic way to avoid tax on a bonus is to sacrifice it and have the employer pay it into a pension scheme. However, the most cash you can have of that, tax-free, is 25%... and that's only for those over 55.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

Not wanting to get too technical but depending on the size of the bonus they need to consider the annual allowance and lifetime limit on pensions.

So yeah, whilst a large pension contribution isn’t to be sniffed at, the tax man is gonna get his piece of it one way or another!

[ancient hibee]

lots of clever schemes to avoid tax on your bonus. Receive as insurance policy. You reddeem it a few days later. In shares etc. I hear the anonymous donors where all Goldman Sachs bankers who donated their bonuses in in a tax avoidance scheme to Hearts.
Think someone may have been having you on.Unless you’re having us on of course.

[CropleyWasGod]

Not wanting to get too technical but depending on the size of the bonus they need to consider the annual allowance and lifetime limit on pensions.

So yeah, whilst a large pension contribution isn’t to be sniffed at, the tax man is gonna get his piece of it one way or another!All troo [emoji106]

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[Leithenhibby]

It was 19,316

Celtic drew a crowd of 18,555.

According to BBC it was 18,709 🤔

GGTTH

[Austinho]

According to BBC it was 18,709 🤔

GGTTHAnd that’s with them counting all tickets sold.

[K.Marx]

According to BBC it was 18,709 🤔

GGTTH

That was the cup game. League derby in December was allegedly 19,300 odd

[Ozyhibby]

That was the cup game. League derby in December was allegedly 19,300 odd

What was the capacity before the build? 17k+ ? So £15m for 2000 extra seat and lots of empty space behind it? [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Austinho]

What was the capacity before the build? 17k+ ? So £15m for 2000 extra seat and lots of empty space behind it? [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWe could probably add 2000 extra seats to a corner at Easter Road for around 3 million or less.

[Billy Whizz]

We could probably add 2000 extra seats to a corner at Easter Road for around 3 million or less.

Call it the John McGinn corner, if we get £5m for him

[green day]

What was the capacity before the build? 17k+ ? So £15m for 2000 extra seat and lots of empty space behind it? [emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

According to Budge -

“We expect the new stand to generate between £2 million and £3 million extra per annum when fully operational"
“We plan to maximise revenue streams; hospitality, conferences, exhibitions, ticket sales and the new shop. We also plan to build a supporters’ bar under the new stand that will hold approximately 250 people"
“Traffic from the shop will hopefully flow into the space which will operate as a cafe during the week"

It all sounds like cloud cuckoo land accounting - and appears to include hospitality which she had previously said would remain in the Gorgie Stand.

It remains to be sees what additional revenues they get (never £2-£3m in a month of sundays) - but one things for sure, football clubs dont make a fortune when they are less successful on the park.

[FilipinoHibs]

Think someone may have been having you on.Unless you’re having us on of course.

i was joking about them donating to Hearts. But nearly as far fetched as a round £3 mill suddenly appearing from nowhere anonymously. But I can assure you that I have seen tax avoided on bonuses in the city by three schemes: an insurance policy that is cashed in a few weeks later; payment in shares that are sold a few weeks later with no capital gain: and payment in krugger rand gold coins. There are lots uf ways but banks have stepped back from using them after financial crisis and the bad press they got.

[green day]

i was joking about them donating to Hearts. But nearly as far fetched as a round £3 mill suddenly appearing from nowhere anonymously. But I can assure you that I have seen tax avoided on bonuses in the city by three schemes: an insurance policy that is cashed in a few weeks later; payment in shares that are sold a few weeks later with no capital gain: and payment in krugger rand gold coins. There are lots uf ways but banks have stepped back from using them after financial crisis and the bad press they got.

Well, thats always a possibility if its not disclosed on a tax return........but its also something that will have you huckled away by the plod :greengrin

[IGRIGI]

Suggesting that they host "Art Exhibitions" is getting us near Mad Vlad territory.

[Bostonhibby]

Suggesting that they host "Art Exhibitions" is getting us near Mad Vald territory.Should be good. Hand out over 20,000 crayon packs and tell the plums to bring their best drawings to the next home game for a show and tell session with the person wedged into the wee seat next to you.

Compared to mass cake baking a believers art exhibition will be a piece of cake. Another first on the horizon.

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[FilipinoHibs]

Well, thats always a possibility if its not disclosed on a tax return........but its also something that will have you huckled away by the plod :greengrin

Not if you have good tax avoidance advisors. Jail is for tax evasion not tax avoidance. The latter is legal.

[O'Rourke3]

Call it the John McGinn corner, if we get £5m for him

Liam Henderson Corner?

[CropleyWasGod]

Well, thats always a possibility if its not disclosed on a tax return........but its also something that will have you huckled away by the plod :greengrinBonuses paid by way of shares are nearly always taxable.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[BSEJVT]

Not if you have good tax avoidance advisors. Jail is for tax evasion not tax avoidance. The latter is legal.

But Hector is shutting these schemes down faster than folk can make them up

He then penalises folk retrospectively for being in them through the tax they would have originally paid and then exhorbitant penalties on top.

Ask any number of top footballers / managers how their attempts worked our for them and the fees to set up aren't cheap either!

Other than VCT, EIS , Seed EIS and the pension issue folk discussed earlier there are fewer and fewer places to go to "avoid" tax.

Exactly as it should be.

[green day]

Bonuses paid by way of shares are nearly always taxable.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk


Yes, that was what I was kinda getting at.

If not paying tax due were as simple as all that we would all be doing it - but it isnt :thumbsup:

[FilipinoHibs]

Bonuses paid by way of shares are nearly always taxable.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

Well Investment banks have found a way round it for years. Shares in shell offshore company for instance.

[TheDude]

Just clicked on this thread for the first time.

The anonymous donations came from a few partners at Baillie Gifford.

No speculation or rumor, 100% fact.

Not sure how much, I was told they put in a couple of million. Couldn't tell you the exact number though.

[FilipinoHibs]

But Hector is shutting these schemes down faster than folk can make them up

He then penalises folk retrospectively for being in them through the tax they would have originally paid and then exhorbitant penalties on top.

Ask any number of top footballers / managers how their attempts worked our for them and the fess to set up aren't cheap either!

Other than VCT, EIS , Seed EIS and the pension issue folk discussed earlier there are fewer and fewer places to go to "avoid" tax.

Exactly as it should be.

Agree becoming increasingly difficult because of the change in the attitude to banks post the financial crisis. Recently HSBC and Deutsche Bank have lost cases. But if you get shares or free options in legitimate companies with lock up periods you are only liable for capital gains tax not the oriiginal value of the award. But all these schemes are the terrain of big earners not Joe public because of the cost of setting them up .

[Bostonhibby]

Just clicked on this thread for the first time.

The anonymous donations came from a few partners at Baillie Gifford.

No speculation or rumor, 100% fact.

Not sure how much, I was told they put in a couple of million. Couldn't tell you the exact number though.Great, I can switch my ISA from them now ☺

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[FilipinoHibs]

Great, I can switch my ISA from them now ☺

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

So one of those 100% Hibs net facts with no actual evidence just I was told.

[FilipinoHibs]

Great, I can switch my ISA from them now ☺

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

Have you seen the social make up of the partners at Baillie Gifford? unlikely football fans never mind Yams. The Dude a Jambo sleeper?

[TheDude]

I'm really not bothered about my perceived veracity enough to get and then post evidence.

Take it from me (as much as you can believe someone on an internet forum) that a few of them, not all, got together and put money into hearts stand as a personal project. This isnt linked to Baillie Gifford as a company, just something folk with money to spare decided to do.

Craig Levein wasnt hauled into the company board room and asked what the ***** was going on for nothing.

[lapsedhibee]

Craig Levein wasnt hauled into the company board room and asked what the ***** was going on for nothing.

Why was Potter hauled in, rather than Bodge?

[CropleyWasGod]

Well Investment banks have found a way round it for years. Shares in shell offshore company for instance.The minute you bring the money back into the UK, it's taxable.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[cocteautwin]

But Hector is shutting these schemes down faster than folk can make them up

He then penalises folk retrospectively for being in them through the tax they would have originally paid and then exhorbitant penalties on top.

Ask any number of top footballers / managers how their attempts worked our for them and the fess to set up aren't cheap either!

Other than VCT, EIS , Seed EIS and the pension issue folk discussed earlier there are fewer and fewer places to go to "avoid" tax.

Exactly as it should be.

There’s still loads of places to go to avoid your taxes . . . Hong Kong, China, Japan, Delaware, Singapore . . . . ;-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

Have you seen the social make up of the partners at Baillie Gifford? unlikely football fans never mind Yams. The Dude a Jambo sleeper?Suppose someone's got to sleep with a jambo but seems a bit harsh [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-J320FN using Tapatalk

[Joe6-2]

Liam Henderson Corner?

Could it be delivered? 😉

[ano hibby]

Have you seen the social make up of the partners at Baillie Gifford? unlikely football fans never mind Yams. The Dude a Jambo sleeper?

There’s dozens of BG partners. Many of whom will have been grossing well over £1m every year for many years. Entirely plausible that a few Jambos there clubbing together but doing so in a discreet way.

[BSEJVT]

There’s still loads of places to go to avoid your taxes . . . Hong Kong, China, Japan, Delaware, Singapore . . . . ;-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Correct

There's also North Korea, Syria & Yemen to name but three others.

Personally I would rather pay the tax I was due to :-)

[greenginger]

Budge, obv. Lots of folks speculating about the link with the Rosebery family - you know how they issued a strip in his colours which made them look like Battenburg Cakes. I have also hinted fairly heavily on this thread that folks should be turning their gaze towards a fund management firm that's nearer our home than Tinycastle. My story, unlike the Rosebery speculation, has its roots in first-hand source fact and is consistent with the anonymity angle. After all, who'd give their money to a fund manager who chooses to ***** his giant bonus on such an ill-considered project? :cb


Baillie Gifford would fit this description.

They're based in the new offices at Greenside under the Calton Hill.

That's a lot nearer Easter Road than Tiny Park.

[Famous Fiver]

Do they wear cardigans and have Rovers at BG?

[Bostonhibby]

Do they wear cardigans and have Rovers at BG?


If true, whatever the connection is it has to run deep if they are happy to have their brand aligned with a club that's bumped all those charities, public services and tax payers out of cash, and freely admitted it via their very own creditors list. Not the sort of business I'd want to be investing with. Ethical investments, and all that:wink:

[Famous Fiver]

:not worth:not worth:not worth:not worth

[Aldo]

If true, whatever the connection is it has to run deep if they are happy to have their brand aligned with a club that's bumped all those charities, public services and tax payers out of cash, and freely admitted it via their very own creditors list. Not the sort of business I'd want to be investing with. Ethical investments, and all that:wink:

Edit: decided to remove it

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[Alan62]

Baillie Gifford would fit this description.

They're based in the new offices at Greenside under the Calton Hill.

That's a lot nearer Easter Road than Tiny Park.

I was trying to be subtle. Edinburgh is a village. There are no secrets. To be clear, BG hasn’t invested in Hearts. That would be unthinkable. What some chaps do with their own money is up to them though. None of us can dispute that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[FilipinoHibs]

There’s still loads of places to go to avoid your taxes . . . Hong Kong, China, Japan, Delaware, Singapore . . . . ;-)


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Financial Times recently listed 17 ways to legally avoid tax. The most popular is to put bonuses earnings through a company you have set up and it pay back to yourself via a dividend. Corporation tax at 20% much lower than top rate of tax.

[CropleyWasGod]

The Financial Times recently listed 17 ways to legally avoid tax. The most popular is to put bonuses earnings through a company you have set up and it pay back to yourself via a dividend. Corporation tax at 20% much lower than top rate of tax.Think you've misunderstood that one

Bonuses for employment income are liable for Income Tax and NI. I can't see how they could be routed through a company.

Even if they were, a dividend from a company has a top tax rate of 38.1%. On top of a Corporation Tax rate of 19%, there is virtually no advantage.


Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[ancient hibee]

I read that but didn’t think it was correct.There would be a problem with the treatment of normal salary compared with the treatment of a bonus.For example -what would be the employment situation.If an individual receives a salary in the normal way having a company set up just to receive a bonus payment would be an unnatural arrangement rather like the so called movie investment system which is now causing so much angst among “investors”.Similarly the BBC employees persuaded to set up companies for earnings are next in line for bankruptcy.

[CropleyWasGod]

I read that but didn’t think it was correct.There would be a problem with the treatment of normal salary compared with the treatment of a bonus.For example -what would be the employment situation.If an individual receives a salary in the normal way having a company set up just to receive a bonus payment would be an unnatural arrangement rather like the so called movie investment system which is now causing so much angst among “investors”.Similarly the BBC employees persuaded to set up companies for earnings are next in line for bankruptcy.The new rules for taxing dividends effectively negate any advantages that accrued through the use of companies, as many BBC workers were encouraged to do. They aren't, and weren't, illegal, so HMRC won't be pursuing them as such....they've just pumped up the tax rates on them.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[FilipinoHibs]

I was trying to be subtle. Edinburgh is a village. There are no secrets. To be clear, BG hasn’t invested in Hearts. That would be unthinkable. What some chaps do with their own money is up to them though. None of us can dispute that.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Top partners at Baillie Gifford take home £1m bonuses. So after tax £600k. If you were willing to give 10% to new stand you would need 50 partners to chip in for £3 mill. Don't think 50 partners to start with. Think this Baillue Gifford story is pretty ridiculous.

[FilipinoHibs]

The new rules for taxing dividends effectively negate any advantages that accrued through the use of companies, as many BBC workers were encouraged to do. They aren't, and weren't, illegal, so HMRC won't be pursuing them as such....they've just pumped up the tax rates on them.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk
From the FT Nov 2017
. Incorporation
Recent dramatic falls in the corporate tax rate — from 28 per cent in 2010 to 20 per cent today, with plans for a further fall to 17 per cent by 2020 — have made companies a popular vehicle for tax planning. When it comes to avoiding tax, Richard Murphy, a professor at City University who campaigns for the closure of loopholes, says: “The big options are incorporation, incorporation and ​incorporation.”

Setting up a company can shelter income from work from national insurance contributions. Switching to a corporate form could save employed and self-employed individuals £3,300 and £700 a year respectively, if they had incomes of £30,000 a year, according to the Office for Budget Responsibility. Married couples have extra flexibility. Dividends and salaries paid out of family-owned companies are commonly arranged to shift income to a spouse who is taxed at a lower rate.

Property investors can also use companies to avoid new interest restrictions and benefit from lower tax rates, though they risk stamp duty and exit charges. There is also a growing trend for investors to use personal investment companies to benefit from low corporate tax rates. Capital lent to this type of “money box” company can grow tax efficiently, while income can be extracted via dividends in retirement when the individual’s tax rate is likely to be lower. The investment growth will fall outside the estate for inheritance tax purposes.

The big tax savings available from using companies have caught the Treasury’s eye. Philip Hammond, the chancellor, used his Autumn Statement to raise concerns about the tax system’s ability to keep up. While it is too soon to predict the shape of any crackdown, the ideas being floated include charging the self-employed higher national insurance, a return to pre-1989 rules designed to stop small companies hoarding cash and the introduction of higher corporate tax rates for non-trading companies.

If tax planning using companies ends up being squeezed, it may not be the only casualty of tough fiscal times. With the OBR forecasting a deficit of £20.7bn in four years, it is likely that the Treasury will scrutinise tax reliefs very closely, as their cost is far larger than that of the health service or any other government department and there is a growing debate about their value.

Taxpayers need to be mindful of political risk. The sudden withdrawal of a concession could affect asset values or leave them in a worse position than if they had never tried to cut their tax bills. Even so, cutting back tax reliefs is likely to prove harder than it sounds. In 2013, protests from charities forced Mr Osborne to withdraw plans to limit tax relief on philanthropy.

David Kilshaw of EY, a professional services firm, says much depends on the behaviour of others. In the same way as the alcohol industry tells customers to “drink responsibly”, tax advisers should ensure their clients use tax reliefs responsibly. “If you abuse reliefs you are spoiling the party for everybody.”

[CropleyWasGod]

The article ignores the changes in the taxation of dividends, which have been phased in over the past couple of years, and which will bite even harder this week.

It also ignores the disadvantages of working through a Limited Company, such as the loss of NI contributions, employer pension contributions, holiday pay and sick pay.

It also uses the CT rate of 28%. That's the wrong rate to use. The correct rate to use would be the Small Companies rate, which has been around 20% for a number of years.

Anyway, thread mega-hijack. Back on the main issue.....[emoji16]

[Fuzzywuzzy]

Interesting read about the Oriam

One year after the opening of Oriam – the national performance centre for sport – and the man at the helm believes the benefits already validate the money spent on the build, citing Scottish rugby’s rise as one example. But he insists that with Scottish football seeking to make more use of the facilities, there could be many more to come.

Recently promoted to chief executive of the flagship facility at Heriot-Watt University’s Riccarton campus, Ross Campbell knows how much has gone into ensuring the project is a success. Involved since the outset, the Montrose footballer used to turn up for evening training sessions knackered as he and other staff members worked tirelessly to ensure their bid saw off competition from Dundee and Stirling and then bring those plans to life.

“Twelve months ago, we had just opened and I was suffering from sheer exhaustion. I was the Montrose captain but I was struggling in the warm-ups.” He is thrilled with his new position as assistant manager and admits that while he would love to still be playing, that role suits better.


Oriam is proving itself in its debut year after costing £33 million, with the Scottish Government contributing £25m, and the remainder coming from sportscotland, Edinburgh City Council and Heriot-Watt University.

The partners include the Scottish FA, Scottish Rugby, Basketball Scotland, Netball Scotland, Scottish Handball, sportscotland Institute of Sport and Scottish Squash and Racquetball, and they also have their main contract with Hearts, as a custodian, which is done through the auspices of the SFA, and host Hibernian U20 matches. It is also hoped that they can eventually add indoor tennis facilities to the sporting footprint as well.


The concept of the national Sports Performance Centre was developed following recommendations in the McLeish Report into Scottish football, with the idea of providing the sporting elite with the facilities, access and sports services pivotal to national success.

In the case of rugby, Campbell’s statistics prove that it has worked and he says it is only a matter of time before the SFA starts maximising the returns as well.

“We will start with Scottish rugby. We worked out a stat that their training programme increased by 20 per cent as a result of Oriam being here – compared to the previous year – due to the vagaries of the Scottish weather. For them to be able to come in and just have everything on one site, the guys fed back to us that it did really help them get to where they are today.


“My favourite moment was when I was watching Finn Russell and Greig Laidlaw practising their kicking. Then when I got in from Montrose and I watched and realised Finn had kicked the winner against Australia with the last kick of the ball. That was the moment which crystallised for me why we are here. It had been pishing with rain outside and they were in practising when they couldn’t have before.

“Last year they achieved their highest ever world ranking of fifth and that has cascaded down to the Under-20s and the women – they had their highest-ever finish in the Six Nations. That was a highlight but from the SFA we are only really starting to scratch the surface.”

It was claimed that former Scotland boss Gordon Strachan was not a fan of switching the squad base from Mar Hall Hotel, in Glasgow, to the facility on the outskirts of Edinburgh, but with the new on-site hotel now open, and SFA chief executive Stewart Regan and performance director Malky Mackay onside, that is expected to change under the next national boss.

“Certainly, that is the intention,” says Campbell. “Now we have the hotel here on site too. It was always the SFA’s intention to come here, once a new campaign started and the hotel was here and we were delighted to have them here recently for a couple of days before they went up to Aberdeen. Seeing football and rugby work at the same time, very early on that seemed to be a very big challenge, but a year down the line, once we have established relationships, they actually work really well together. It was great to see the players interacting.


“The senior men had been here in March for the Canada game but for the recent match, against the Netherlands, in Aberdeen, they were here. Because there had been a change of manager it was a bit last-minute, but they worked really well with the rugby guys. Gregor and the SRU guys were here and in the hotel for the autumn Tests but they were really accommodating and that hit home for me because of how they were interacting. They were sharing the gym, sharing the pitches.

“That’s not the only thing – they recently went on a joint venture to enhance the performance analysis equipment which we’d installed in the indoor facility, football and rugby worked together. The SFA attracted money from Fifa but they went into it together – under the new strategy for football, performance analysis is a key component so they’ve installed a state of the art HD system and both sports can use it.”

As the sports work together and netball players mingle with footballers, squash players, rugby stars and recreational users in the on-site cafe, there is a feelgood vibe about the facility that has spent its first year proving that teamwork can make the dream work and as these sports and Campbell and his staff have shown, it is the way forward.

[lapsedhibee]

Interesting read about the Oriam

Don't like the thought of Hearts players mixing with pro egg chasers. Rugby's a rougher sport than fitba and the Hearts players might get ideas.

[SirDavidsNapper]

Don't like the thought of Hearts players mixing with pro egg chasers. Rugby's a rougher sport than fitba and the Hearts players might get ideas.

Maybe they've picked up the hoofball from the rugby lads

[Sioux]

From the FT Nov 2017
. Incorporation
Recent dramatic falls in the corporate tax rate — from 28 per cent in 2010 to 20 per cent today, with plans for a further fall to 17 per cent by 2020 — have made companies a popular vehicle for tax planning. When it comes to avoiding tax, Richard Murphy, a professor at City University who campaigns for the closure of loopholes, says: “The big options are incorporation, incorporation and ​incorporation.”

Setting up a company can shelter income from work from national insurance contributions. Switching to a corporate form could save employed and self-employed individuals £3,300 and £700 a year respectively, if they had incomes of £30,000 a year, according to the Office for Budget Responsibility. Married couples have extra flexibility. Dividends and salaries paid out of family-owned companies are commonly arranged to shift income to a spouse who is taxed at a lower rate.

Property investors can also use companies to avoid new interest restrictions and benefit from lower tax rates, though they risk stamp duty and exit charges. There is also a growing trend for investors to use personal investment companies to benefit from low corporate tax rates. Capital lent to this type of “money box” company can grow tax efficiently, while income can be extracted via dividends in retirement when the individual’s tax rate is likely to be lower. The investment growth will fall outside the estate for inheritance tax purposes.

The big tax savings available from using companies have caught the Treasury’s eye. Philip Hammond, the chancellor, used his Autumn Statement to raise concerns about the tax system’s ability to keep up. While it is too soon to predict the shape of any crackdown, the ideas being floated include charging the self-employed higher national insurance, a return to pre-1989 rules designed to stop small companies hoarding cash and the introduction of higher corporate tax rates for non-trading companies.

If tax planning using companies ends up being squeezed, it may not be the only casualty of tough fiscal times. With the OBR forecasting a deficit of £20.7bn in four years, it is likely that the Treasury will scrutinise tax reliefs very closely, as their cost is far larger than that of the health service or any other government department and there is a growing debate about their value.

Taxpayers need to be mindful of political risk. The sudden withdrawal of a concession could affect asset values or leave them in a worse position than if they had never tried to cut their tax bills. Even so, cutting back tax reliefs is likely to prove harder than it sounds. In 2013, protests from charities forced Mr Osborne to withdraw plans to limit tax relief on philanthropy.

David Kilshaw of EY, a professional services firm, says much depends on the behaviour of others. In the same way as the alcohol industry tells customers to “drink responsibly”, tax advisers should ensure their clients use tax reliefs responsibly. “If you abuse reliefs you are spoiling the party for everybody.”

Its articles like this that get so many people in trouble with Hector.

[hibbysam]

Interesting read about the Oriam

One year after the opening of Oriam – the national performance centre for sport – and the man at the helm believes the benefits already validate the money spent on the build, citing Scottish rugby’s rise as one example. But he insists that with Scottish football seeking to make more use of the facilities, there could be many more to come.

Recently promoted to chief executive of the flagship facility at Heriot-Watt University’s Riccarton campus, Ross Campbell knows how much has gone into ensuring the project is a success. Involved since the outset, the Montrose footballer used to turn up for evening training sessions knackered as he and other staff members worked tirelessly to ensure their bid saw off competition from Dundee and Stirling and then bring those plans to life.

“Twelve months ago, we had just opened and I was suffering from sheer exhaustion. I was the Montrose captain but I was struggling in the warm-ups.” He is thrilled with his new position as assistant manager and admits that while he would love to still be playing, that role suits better.


Oriam is proving itself in its debut year after costing £33 million, with the Scottish Government contributing £25m, and the remainder coming from sportscotland, Edinburgh City Council and Heriot-Watt University.

The partners include the Scottish FA, Scottish Rugby, Basketball Scotland, Netball Scotland, Scottish Handball, sportscotland Institute of Sport and Scottish Squash and Racquetball, and they also have their main contract with Hearts, as a custodian, which is done through the auspices of the SFA, and host Hibernian U20 matches. It is also hoped that they can eventually add indoor tennis facilities to the sporting footprint as well.


The concept of the national Sports Performance Centre was developed following recommendations in the McLeish Report into Scottish football, with the idea of providing the sporting elite with the facilities, access and sports services pivotal to national success.

In the case of rugby, Campbell’s statistics prove that it has worked and he says it is only a matter of time before the SFA starts maximising the returns as well.

“We will start with Scottish rugby. We worked out a stat that their training programme increased by 20 per cent as a result of Oriam being here – compared to the previous year – due to the vagaries of the Scottish weather. For them to be able to come in and just have everything on one site, the guys fed back to us that it did really help them get to where they are today.


“My favourite moment was when I was watching Finn Russell and Greig Laidlaw practising their kicking. Then when I got in from Montrose and I watched and realised Finn had kicked the winner against Australia with the last kick of the ball. That was the moment which crystallised for me why we are here. It had been pishing with rain outside and they were in practising when they couldn’t have before.

“Last year they achieved their highest ever world ranking of fifth and that has cascaded down to the Under-20s and the women – they had their highest-ever finish in the Six Nations. That was a highlight but from the SFA we are only really starting to scratch the surface.”

It was claimed that former Scotland boss Gordon Strachan was not a fan of switching the squad base from Mar Hall Hotel, in Glasgow, to the facility on the outskirts of Edinburgh, but with the new on-site hotel now open, and SFA chief executive Stewart Regan and performance director Malky Mackay onside, that is expected to change under the next national boss.

“Certainly, that is the intention,” says Campbell. “Now we have the hotel here on site too. It was always the SFA’s intention to come here, once a new campaign started and the hotel was here and we were delighted to have them here recently for a couple of days before they went up to Aberdeen. Seeing football and rugby work at the same time, very early on that seemed to be a very big challenge, but a year down the line, once we have established relationships, they actually work really well together. It was great to see the players interacting.


“The senior men had been here in March for the Canada game but for the recent match, against the Netherlands, in Aberdeen, they were here. Because there had been a change of manager it was a bit last-minute, but they worked really well with the rugby guys. Gregor and the SRU guys were here and in the hotel for the autumn Tests but they were really accommodating and that hit home for me because of how they were interacting. They were sharing the gym, sharing the pitches.

“That’s not the only thing – they recently went on a joint venture to enhance the performance analysis equipment which we’d installed in the indoor facility, football and rugby worked together. The SFA attracted money from Fifa but they went into it together – under the new strategy for football, performance analysis is a key component so they’ve installed a state of the art HD system and both sports can use it.”

As the sports work together and netball players mingle with footballers, squash players, rugby stars and recreational users in the on-site cafe, there is a feelgood vibe about the facility that has spent its first year proving that teamwork can make the dream work and as these sports and Campbell and his staff have shown, it is the way forward.

Is that Ross Campbell that was at Hibs?

[JimBHibees]

Is that Ross Campbell that was at Hibs?

I think it is. Seems to have done very well for himself.

[Sauzee16]

Isn’t it Dick Campbell’s son?

[Eyrie]

Don't like the thought of Hearts players mixing with pro egg chasers. Rugby's a rougher sport than fitba and the Hearts players might get ideas.

I'd be more worried about the rugby players being influenced by Levein and just hoofing the ball up the park at every opportunity instead of seeking to play an attractive high paced attacking game.