Hearts' New Stand Thread (Merged)

[Firestarter]

It's the attitude of "why should our supporters be penalized?" that gets me. Erm because it's your **** up you balloon.

[Peevemor]

Wouldn't it have made more sense to have the wee shed at the back of the stand, meaning nobody's view is blocked?


:confused:

That would mean the presenter/pundits having to mix with ordinary supporters to get access (ref. PBS directors' box).

[Ozyhibby]

It's the attitude of "why should our supporters be penalized?" that gets me. Erm because it's your **** up you balloon.

It would be difficult to lift it to the back


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[ancient hibee]

It’s typical that they can announce an(at least) 25% cost overrun on a bog standard construction job and she is treated by the MSM as some sort of financial genius.She’s certainly conned the numpties.If ever I decide to sell sand in the Sahara she would be my first choice to lead the sales team.

[silverhibee]

Budge is a self-centred old cow. She’s doing everything to upset us for the derby. She actually thinks she is some sort of queen as well. Time someone bought her a new outfit the tramp that she is.

Imagine the seethe if they lose both games or draw one and lose the cup game. Her house will come crashing down around her.

While stuck on the bypass yesterday she came on the radio talking about missing out on some right back, "he was our main target and we don't have a list so we will just have to move on to the next target on the list" :confused:, she really is a dislikeable woman with her arrogant chat.

[Billy Whizz]

While stuck on the bypass yesterday she came on the radio talking about missing out on some right back, "he was our main target and we don't have a list so we will just have to move on to the next target on the list" :confused:, she really is a dislikeable woman with her arrogant chat.

It was a left back who played for the Swedish team, Ostersund, who’ve drawn Arsenal in the Europa League.
He decided to go to an American team instead

[Famous Fiver]

Without trawling through this entire thread I am sure it has been pointed out on here many times about the inevitable difficulties with TV box, police box, restricted views, indeed at one time was the TV Box not supposed to have one of the Floodlight pylons right in the middle of it.

A class of primary school children could easily have designed a more user friendly facility than this one. I wonder what Mr Clydesdale would have to say, if in fact he is the 'architect/designer' or whatever title they have for him in what is quite evidently a spectacular failure in achieving even basic facilities.

No direcors box, press facilities open to the elements, no seats ordered, no views of the castle, or the pitch, from their executive restaurant, no provision for proper technical areas, restricted views all over the place, power outages because they do not have enough basic utilities in place.

I am sure others can add to a sorry list which can't be described as snags but are basics. How did the whole thing get beyond the planners in the first place?

That, I think, is another, as yet unexplained story.

[happiehibbie]

Dont panic !!!! I have just secured a seat in the new stand seemingly the sky lounge is opening on the 27th !!!! I will keep you posted oh and some pictures

[hibbyfraelibby]

Dont panic !!!! I have just secured a seat in the new stand seemingly the sky lounge is opening on the 27th !!!! I will keep you posted oh and some pictures

You sure the Sky lounge isnt that garden shed with a view down the front of the Rosie?

[Famous Fiver]

I seem to remember in Romanov's pomp we were treated to photos of cardboard boxes with the caption ' Now that is what you call a proper planning application' to much boast and bombast.

Looks like this one was done on the back of a fag packet!

[Jack]

Think she said £1million revenue not profit.

I was told by someone that was there that;

There will be 2 or 3 hospitality areas in the new stand and also a supporters bar. Whispers this, all dependent on licencing.

They will be entering the conference market. The facilities will be able to cope with up to 2,000 delegates.

This along with weddings, parties and whatnot.

[HFCdeb]

Budge is a self-centred old cow. She’s doing everything to upset us for the derby. She actually thinks she is some sort of queen as well. Time someone bought her a new outfit the tramp that she is.

Imagine the seethe if they lose both games or draw one and lose the cup game. Her house will come crashing down around her.

Superb rant 😂

[Bostonhibby]

I was told by someone that was there that;

There will be 2 or 3 hospitality areas in the new stand and also a supporters bar. Whispers this, all dependent on licencing.

They will be entering the conference market. The facilities will be able to cope with up to 2,000 delegates.

This along with weddings, parties and whatnot.Are they still going to win the champions league by 2008 as well? May as well drag all the old dreams and promises up.

Hopefully there will be owls as well.

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[fat freddy]

I was told by someone that was there that;

There will be 2 or 3 hospitality areas in the new stand and also a supporters bar. Whispers this, all dependent on licencing.

They will be entering the conference market. The facilities will be able to cope with up to 2,000 delegates.

This along with weddings, parties and whatnot.

All these events will be B.Y.O.B.
Corkage fees will be applied of course...

£51 per can of special brew

[SteveHFC]

Budge is a self-centred old cow. She’s doing everything to upset us for the derby. She actually thinks she is some sort of queen as well. Time someone bought her a new outfit the tramp that she is.

Imagine the seethe if they lose both games or draw one and lose the cup game. Her house will come crashing down around her.

http://i.imgur.com/pjqWBh2.jpg

[silverhibee]

It was a left back who played for the Swedish team, Ostersund, who’ve drawn Arsenal in the Europa League.
He decided to go to an American team instead

:aok:

[gaz1875]

Given that they sold out almost instantly,the demand was obviously there. There would have been chaos if people discovered that Hibs decided not to sell 600 seats, albeit with restricted views.

It will be interesting to see if there is crowd issues should the score be in our favour and those that can't see start squeezing into the spaces between others.

My view is we should never have sold them, they loose financially over their shambles and Hibs fans watch it at ER or on tv

[Alan62]

Will be interesting to see what happens when folks apply the 'it's an away game and I'm going to stand anywhere I want' rule. :wink:

[Smartie]

I do think that at the very least we should install a supersize cardboard cut out of Jason Cummings doing his "lifting the cup" celebration at the front of the South Stand for our next league game (or the inevitable cup replay I suppose) before charging them £28 a pop for restricted view tickets to stand behind it.

[FilipinoHibs]

[QUOTE=SingHibs;5252773]£1m over 18 home games is £55,555 extra income a game. Say at £50 pop a head then 1,111 corporates per game. Seems very ambitious. Do they have that many free seats? The corporates will have to sit in the general stand. Plus as somebody noted legislation makes it difficult to accept this sort of gift now.[/QUOTE

It’s £140 at ER for hospitality for the Ross Co game on Saturday.

Was a back of envelope calculation. So 400 extra per game going to hospitality. Can't see that being sustained unless they are winning and playing attractive football.

[FilipinoHibs]

[QUOTE=SingHibs;5252773]£1m over 18 home games is £55,555 extra income a game. Say at £50 pop a head then 1,111 corporates per game. Seems very ambitious. Do they have that many free seats? The corporates will have to sit in the general stand. Plus as somebody noted legislation makes it difficult to accept this sort of gift now.[/QUOTE

It’s £140 at ER for hospitality for the Ross Co game on Saturday.

They are advertising at £110 a pop. So 500 extra hospitalities per game.

[happiehibbie]

You sure the Sky lounge isnt that garden shed with a view down the front of the Rosie?


i will let you know

[green day]

[QUOTE=SingHibs;5252773]£1m over 18 home games is £55,555 extra income a game. Say at £50 pop a head then 1,111 corporates per game. Seems very ambitious. Do they have that many free seats? The corporates will have to sit in the general stand. Plus as somebody noted legislation makes it difficult to accept this sort of gift now.[/QUOTE

It’s £140 at ER for hospitality for the Ross Co game on Saturday.

Hibs hospitality in the West (gallery and clubhouse) is £110 for non ST, £90 for ST.

Bunch of us going to next Dons game, already sold out 2 months beforehand. Hibs are doing very well.

I'm sure if they don't sell £1m extra then Quentin Bumblebee Rosebery III will bail them out with another £1m or so 😂😂😂

[FilipinoHibs]

[QUOTE=WhileTheChief..;5253131]

Hibs hospitality in the West (gallery and clubhouse) is £110 for non ST, £90 for ST.

Bunch of us going to next Dons game, already sold out 2 months beforehand. Hibs are doing very well.

I'm sure if they don't sell £1m extra then Quentin Bumblebee Rosebery III will bail them out with another £1m or so 😂😂😂

I am sure FOH money for the stand will be funneled off to her.

[Brunswickbill]

main stand to reach £15 million Hearts chairwoman Ann Budge and manager Craig Levein arrive at Tynecastle for today's agm. Pic: Greg Macvean BARRY ANDERSON Email Published: 12:58 Tuesday 19 December 2017 0 HAVE YOUR SAY Hearts owner Ann Budge has revealed that the final cost of Tynecastle Park’s new main stand will reach £15 million. Budge told shareholders at Tuesday’s annual general meeting that anonymous benefactors have agreed to provide an extra £1.5m to help with the project. The initial cost to rebuild the stand was to be £12m, a figure revised to £14m earlier this year. Budge confirmed that stadium redevelopment is now expected to total £15m. Benefactors were initially giving £3m towards the cost but will now contribute £4.5m in total by the time work is finished at Tynecastle in summer 2018. “I thought we were looking at £14m, I’m now telling you I think we are looking at £15m,” Budge explained to shareholders at the 111th Hearts AGM inside the stadium’s Gorgie Suite. Budge predicted that the new stand will earn Hearts around an extra £1m income per year. She added that the board have the use of a £1.75m loan facility to help with costs and are intending to use at least some of those funds over the winter months. There are no plans at the moment to rename the new stand through sponsorship but this has not been ruled for the future. Hearts still hope to replace the Tynecastle pitch next summer with a hybrid surface similar to that at Murrayfield. Budge explained that the price for this will be between £850,000 and £1m. Manager Craig Levein also addressed the AGM and said he expects another six or eight youth academy players to sign professional contracts with the Edinburgh club next summer. That follows the recent progress of 16-year-olds Harry Cochrane and Anthony McDonald into the first team this season. Levein also insisted Hearts’ recruitment must improve after six out of nine players signed in January this year were released during the summer. “I think the recruitment was better in the summer than it was in January. We got a real fright in January, when mistakes were made,” said Levein, who was director of football at that time with Ian Cathro head coach. “We are trying to limit mistakes but I don’t think we’ll ever get to a point where we don’t make any. “I’m glad I decided to go back into the dugout (in September). At least I go home on a Saturday night exhausted from shouting rather than sitting in the stand frustrated.” A question from the floor asked Levein when Hearts would “stop being bullied by Hibs in derby matches”. The Easter Road side have not lost any of the last eight meetings between the clubs since August 2014. “Nobody has sat in that stand feeling sick more than me,” replied Levein. “We’ve been poor in derby matches in the last couple of years and we will be ready for the next one. I can’t guarantee we’ll win but we won’t be bullied, that’s for sure.”

Read more at: https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hearts/hearts-agm-final-cost-of-main-stand-to-reach-15-million-1-4643058

One for CWG or any other legal / financial expert.
It seems strange that an "anonymous benefactor" can slip Hertx £1.5m just like that. Try to move any kind of cash through the banking system and you have to jump through all sort of money laundering hoops. Then this weekend we hear that HMRC are pursuing the big donators to the Leave campaign for tax on their donations. This is, I believe, under Section 24 of the Inheritance Tax Act 1975, which requires tax to be paid on large gifts. I wonder if those who know about these things can advise whther Hector will be contacting the generous Hertz benefators to claim their share of their generosity.:devil:

[CropleyWasGod]

One for CWG or any other legal / financial expert.
It seems strange that an "anonymous benefactor" can slip Hertx £1.5m just like that. Try to move any kind of cash through the banking system and you have to jump through all sort of money laundering hoops. Then this weekend we hear that HMRC are pursuing the big donators to the Leave campaign for tax on their donations. This is, I believe, under Section 24 of the Inheritance Tax Act 1975, which requires tax to be paid on large gifts. I wonder if those who know about these things can advise whther Hector will be contacting the generous Hertz benefators to claim their share of their generosity.[emoji317]Really not sure what's strange about it.

If there are money-laundering concerns, they will.be flagged up by those who have legal responsibilities to do so.

If there are tax implications for the donors, HMRC won't be doing any chasing for the time being. The nature of the self-assessment system means that its the donors' responsibility to disclose any chargeable transfers.



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[greenginger]

Really not sure what's strange about it.

If there are money-laundering concerns, they will.be flagged up by those who have legal responsibilities to do so.

If there are tax implications for the donors, HMRC won't be doing any chasing for the time being. The nature of the self-assessment system means that its the donors' responsibility to disclose any chargeable transfers.



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What puzzles me about these annonomous donations is where were these people back in 2013.

When the Foundation of Hearts was trying to buy the Club from the administrators they must have searched high and wide for a backer to put up the cash . Back then Budge and her 6.25 % interest was the only offer available and now there seems to be funders giving away a lot more than the £ 2.5 million that was required just a few years ago.

Where have they suddenly appeared from ?

[Brunswickbill]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;5257555]Really not sure what's strange about it.

If there are money-laundering concerns, they will.be flagged up by those who have legal responsibilities to do so.

If there are tax implications for the donors, HMRC won't be doing any chasing for the time being. The nature of the self-assessment system means that its the donors' responsibility to disclose any chargeable transfers.


So are Hertz responsible for informing the authorities of the source of the anonymous donations?

[GreenCastle]

Chances of a power cut on the 27th ?

Seems a pretty common thing recently as they are still working off some dodgy power supply !

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;5257555]Really not sure what's strange about it.

If there are money-laundering concerns, they will.be flagged up by those who have legal responsibilities to do so.

If there are tax implications for the donors, HMRC won't be doing any chasing for the time being. The nature of the self-assessment system means that its the donors' responsibility to disclose any chargeable transfers.


So are Hertz responsible for informing the authorities of the source of the anonymous donations?No, unless they employ people who are regulated under the Anti-money Laundering legislation, who have suspicions that any donation is the result of the proceeds of crime; and that is unlikely.

The most likely people to flag any concerns would be the auditors, accountants, solicitors or bankers of the club or the donors.



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[Deansy]

[QUOTE=WhileTheChief..;5253131]

Was a back of envelope calculation. So 400 extra per game going to hospitality. Can't see that being sustained unless they are winning and playing attractive football.

The same process used with their new stand - for a long, long time they're going to rue the day Budge decided on exactly how they were going to build their carbuncle !

[NAE NOOKIE]

What puzzles me about these annonomous donations is where were these people back in 2013.

When the Foundation of Hearts was trying to buy the Club from the administrators they must have searched high and wide for a backer to put up the cash . Back then Budge and her 6.25 % interest was the only offer available and now there seems to be funders giving away a lot more than the £ 2.5 million that was required just a few years ago.

Where have they suddenly appeared from ?

That's the same question I've asked a number of times. Anonymous benefactors stepped forward to finance the 'Save the Children' deal and have now donated several million to the new stand. As you say, where were these people when Hearts really needed them? Why are they happy to ante up for shirt sponsorship and infrastructure now but were nowhere to be seen when the very existence of the club was at stake? .... Very strange :hmmm:

I cant help thinking these mystery men are getting their money from a source close to Tynecastle ...... very very close in fact :wink:

[Springbank]

Chances of a power cut on the 27th ?

Seems a pretty common thing recently as they are still working off some dodgy power supply !

If anyone finds themselves with time on their hands at the moment, an interesting FOI for the council transport division might be to ask:
how many times did the traffic lights fail between chesser and Dalry in October to December 2016 (before tynecastle works began) compared to how many times they failed in October to December 2017

all coincidence I'm sure...

[WellingtonHibby]

[QUOTE=Brunswickbill;5257568]No, unless they employ people who are regulated under the Anti-money Laundering legislation, who have suspicions that any donation is the result of the proceeds of crime; and that is unlikely.

The most likely people to flag any concerns would be the auditors, accountants, solicitors or bankers of the club or the donors.



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Not strictly true, those administering the UK and European AML legislation are interested in who is donating/moving/remitting funds. The focus of interest is both the source of funds and the identity of those using them. KYC is generally the main AML threshold. But, I'm not sure it would apply here unless a financial institution or a lawyer was utilised to to complete the transaction.if it's a private agreement then AML leg wouldn't apply.

[WhileTheChief..]

If anyone finds themselves with time on their hands at the moment, an interesting FOI for the council transport division might be to ask:
how many times did the traffic lights fail between chesser and Dalry in October to December 2016 (before tynecastle works began) compared to how many times they failed in October to December 2017

all coincidence I'm sure...

Good point. Instead of worrying about money laundering maybe they could write to the council asking why the hell there was a need to change a perfectly good road with 2 lanes into a bike lane and 1 for cars?

Mental decision and way more important than any potential AML regulations!

[CropleyWasGod]

[QUOTE=CropleyWasGod;5257572]

Not strictly true, those administering the UK and European AML legislation are interested in who is donating/moving/remitting funds. The focus of interest is both the source of funds and the identity of those using them. KYC is generally the main AML threshold. But, I'm not sure it would apply here unless a financial institution or a lawyer was utilised to to complete the transaction.if it's a private agreement then AML leg wouldn't apply.That's not the case.

If the auditor, for example, has suspicions then he has to report it. Not to do so risks 7 years in jail.

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[CropleyWasGod]

That's the same question I've asked a number of times. Anonymous benefactors stepped forward to finance the 'Save the Children' deal and have now donated several million to the new stand. As you say, where were these people when Hearts really needed them? Why are they happy to ante up for shirt sponsorship and infrastructure now but were nowhere to be seen when the very existence of the club was at stake? .... Very strange :hmmm:

I cant help thinking these mystery men are getting their money from a source close to Tynecastle ...... very very close in fact :wink:This has been discussed elsewhere. As far as the original donation is concerned, at least, a donation by AB or anyone else connected to the club would have been disclosed in the accounts.

And is it several million? I thought that it was £1.5m. If that's the case, it's less than AB's cost to save the club.

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[berwickhibee]

That's the same question I've asked a number of times. Anonymous benefactors stepped forward to finance the 'Save the Children' deal and have now donated several million to the new stand. As you say, where were these people when Hearts really needed them? Why are they happy to ante up for shirt sponsorship and infrastructure now but were nowhere to be seen when the very existence of the club was at stake? .... Very strange :hmmm:

I cant help thinking these mystery men are getting their money from a source close to Tynecastle ...... very very close in fact :wink:
Stop teasing man. Spill the beans😎

[lapsedhibee]

This has been discussed elsewhere. As far as the original donation is concerned, at least, a donation by AB or anyone else connected to the club would have been disclosed in the accounts.

And is it several million? I thought that it was £1.5m. If that's the case, it's less than AB's cost to save the club.


Wasn't it originally £1.5m when the eighth wonder was costing £12m, but now that the cost is £15m the anonymous benefactor will cough £4.5m?

[Winston Ingram]

That's the same question I've asked a number of times. Anonymous benefactors stepped forward to finance the 'Save the Children' deal and have now donated several million to the new stand. As you say, where were these people when Hearts really needed them? Why are they happy to ante up for shirt sponsorship and infrastructure now but were nowhere to be seen when the very existence of the club was at stake? .... Very strange :hmmm:

I cant help thinking these mystery men are getting their money from a source close to Tynecastle ...... very very close in fact :wink:

I’m absolutely certain it’s Budge because she knows the damage the car crash planning that she headed up would have done and the stick she would’ve got for it. This ‘benefactor’ had already donated £3m. I can’t imagine why anyone would be happy to stump up another £1.5m when the extra cost had arisen purely as a result of complete incompetence.

[CropleyWasGod]

Wasn't it originally £1.5m when the eighth wonder was costing £12m, but now that the cost is £15m the anonymous benefactor will cough £4.5m?Yeah, you're right.

It is donors, plural. Possibly people.who either didn't have the cash to get involved when the club was up for grabs, or who simply didn't want to.

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[Jack]

Folk on here keep on going on about an "anonymous benefactor" however in many of the yams missives it benefactors.

[greenginger]

Folk on here keep on going on about an "anonymous benefactor" however in many of the yams missives it benefactors.


I suppose it depends on if you consider Edinburgh Council as a singular or plural identity. :greengrin

[Eyrie]

That's the same question I've asked a number of times. Anonymous benefactors stepped forward to finance the 'Save the Children' deal and have now donated several million to the new stand. As you say, where were these people when Hearts really needed them? Why are they happy to ante up for shirt sponsorship and infrastructure now but were nowhere to be seen when the very existence of the club was at stake? .... Very strange :hmmm:

I cant help thinking these mystery men are getting their money from a source close to Tynecastle ...... very very close in fact :wink:

Nothing strange about it,

Those benefactors let their club enter administration so that they could keep their cash for spending once the administration had stuffed all the creditors. Why "waste" it at the time on recompensing charities and pensioners? Instead they could distract attention from the stolen money by using Save the Children as a smokescreen.

[Aldo]

Nothing strange about it,

Those benefactors let their club enter administration so that they could keep their cash for spending once the administration had stuffed all the creditors. Why "waste" it at the time on recompensing charities and pensioners? Instead they could distract attention from the stolen money by using Save the Children as a smokescreen.

Very well put!! [emoji122]


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[DarlingtonHibee]

Often wondered, how does the save the children sponsorship work?

[CropleyWasGod]

Nothing strange about it,

Those benefactors let their club enter administration so that they could keep their cash for spending once the administration had stuffed all the creditors. Why "waste" it at the time on recompensing charities and pensioners? Instead they could distract attention from the stolen money by using Save the Children as a smokescreen.It wouldn't have gone anywhere near the charities. It would have gone to.the secured creditor, like AB's money.

That said, I agree that there's nothing strange about not giving the money then..Giving it now has a more tangible benefit than throwing it down an uncertain hole post-administration

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[gordonced18]

If Budgie is indeed the benefactor her personal wad is taking a big hit.... I can see brown stuff and fans in my crystal ball in the not too distant future.....

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[greenginger]

It wouldn't have gone anywhere near the charities. It would have gone to.the secured creditor, like AB's money.

That said, I agree that there's nothing strange about not giving the money then..Giving it now has a more tangible benefit than throwing it down an uncertain hole post-administration

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FoH was begging all and sundry for cash to buy the club out of administration.

If these doners had come forward then , the club could have been fan owned from time of admin. exit.

These doners don't want their money back or any credit for their gifts so why not get involved earlier ?

[CropleyWasGod]

FoH was begging all and sundry for cash to buy the club out of administration.

If these doners had come forward then , the club could have been fan owned from time of admin. exit.

These doners don't want their money back or any credit for their gifts so why not get involved earlier ?

Maybe they didn't have the cash then.

Maybe they had little.confidence in the FOH model.

Maybe they were backing another potential saviour. Shoeless Bob or Gordon McKie for example.

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[erin go bragh]

Well we will find out tomorrow what their capacity actually is .
I’ll go for 19007 :)

[Eyrie]

Well we will find out tomorrow what their capacity actually is .
I’ll go for 19007 :)

I'd like them to announce 21,516.

However they'd have to find another 2000 seats first.

[The Pointer]

Did anyone spot the missing panel in the ceiling when the teams were waiting to come out?

[Haymaker]

19,000 apparently

[Bobo]

Well we will find out tomorrow what their capacity actually is .
I’ll go for 19007 :)

19316 according to the BBC 🤔

[Danderhall Hibs]

19316 according to the BBC 🤔

How many are they not selling just now due to the restricted view?

[Dashing Bob S]

A titchy little club with a titchy little ground saved by a small minded short sighted ref and linesman. How utterly pathetic.

[GlesgaeHibby]

6 turnstiles for 3500 hibs fans is a joke. Arrived half an hour before kick off and got in 5 minutes after the game started. Utter shambles

[SirDavidsNapper]

19316 according to the BBC 🤔

Big team

[Gregor]

There's something that's been niggling me ever since The Guntery have started slapping each other on the back over this "donation". This "Anonymous Benefactors" term - if it were to be used in the context of Hibs finances - would immediately raise a red flag as far as I am concerned. Questions would be asked. E.g the shoogling that took place with regards to the ownership of the club, the stadium, the land, the training centre at East Mains etc and the resultant questions / queries / witch-hunts.

I would have thought, given the ***** they've been through in recent decades, the same would happen on the other side of the city and yet, I don't hear any grumbles or points of concern from any of the puddle-drinking knuckle-draggers I choose to associate with. Conversely, the reaction seems to be "aren't we barry".

I just don't understand how they can happily shamble on from one epic cock-up to the next without being the least bit suspicious. My immediate question would be : What is the benefactor getting out of this? Nobody chucks in several million quid without getting something back. Certainly not this myopic blot on the landscape - who needs a part-developed as this monstrosity of a stand? So, they must be getting something back unrelated to Wernham Hogg Tribute Act structure. And if so, what is it?

[CropleyWasGod]

There's something that's been niggling me ever since The Guntery have started slapping each other on the back over this "donation". This "Anonymous Benefactors" term - if it were to be used in the context of Hibs finances - would immediately raise a red flag as far as I am concerned. Questions would be asked. E.g the shoogling that took place with regards to the ownership of the club, the stadium, the land, the training centre at East Mains etc and the resultant questions / queries / witch-hunts.

I would have thought, given the ***** they've been through in recent decades, the same would happen on the other side of the city and yet, I don't hear any grumbles or points of concern from any of the puddle-drinking knuckle-draggers I choose to associate with. Conversely, the reaction seems to be "aren't we barry".

I just don't understand how they can happily shamble on from one epic cock-up to the next without being the least bit suspicious. My immediate question would be : What is the benefactor getting out of this? Nobody chucks in several million quid without getting something back. Certainly not this myopic blot on the landscape - who needs a part-developed as this monstrosity of a stand? So, they must be getting something back unrelated to Wernham Hogg Tribute Act structure. And if so, what is it?

Even in today's cynical, "nothing-for-nothing" society, they do. Thankfully.

[FilipinoHibs]

There's something that's been niggling me ever since The Guntery have started slapping each other on the back over this "donation". This "Anonymous Benefactors" term - if it were to be used in the context of Hibs finances - would immediately raise a red flag as far as I am concerned. Questions would be asked. E.g the shoogling that took place with regards to the ownership of the club, the stadium, the land, the training centre at East Mains etc and the resultant questions / queries / witch-hunts.

I would have thought, given the ***** they've been through in recent decades, the same would happen on the other side of the city and yet, I don't hear any grumbles or points of concern from any of the puddle-drinking knuckle-draggers I choose to associate with. Conversely, the reaction seems to be "aren't we barry".

I just don't understand how they can happily shamble on from one epic cock-up to the next without being the least bit suspicious. My immediate question would be : What is the benefactor getting out of this? Nobody chucks in several million quid without getting something back. Certainly not this myopic blot on the landscape - who needs a part-developed as this monstrosity of a stand? So, they must be getting something back unrelated to Wernham Hogg Tribute Act structure. And if so, what is it?

Going by the Hibs vs Hearts no rules thecHearts fans ars utterly gullible. They think we bumped the bank - dont understand the simple deal Farmer struck with Hibs and the bank. Still think their total debt was less than £30m - ignoring share conversions and debt foregiveness of another £70m. Think Vlad went iff with money rather it going on wages and transfer fees.

[greenginger]

Whoever the donor / donors are , their identity is being kept completely under wraps .

I've sounded out folks in different circles in the " village " of Edinburgh and nobody has heard anything , not even a rumour or a I've heard but can't say.

Maybe I'll first foot Budge with a bottle of extra strong hooch. :greengrin

[Crazyhorse]

Whoever the donor / donors are , their identity is being kept completely under wraps .

I've sounded out folks in different circles in the " village " of Edinburgh and nobody has heard anything , not even a rumour or a I've heard but can't say.

Maybe I'll first foot Budge with a bottle of extra strong hooch. :greengrin

Regardless of who he or she or them or it actually is they seem to be dumping the money into the money pit that is the poorly designed 'main' stand. At least with the Aberdeen funders they can see the result of their beneficence on the pitch.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Can someone please explain how you can build a £15m ediface to mamon on a turnover of €11m, Not profit but turnover, and claim you dont have any debt and can afford to bring in 3 quality midfieders in January without screwing over the usual small businesses and charities. This is how Vlad started. Is history about to repeat itself?

[Panda]

Changing the topic slightly to, um, Hibs, does anyone know what the stand gradients/rakes are at Easter Road?

[CropleyWasGod]

Can someone please explain how you can build a £15m ediface to mamon on a turnover of €11m, Not profit but turnover, and claim you dont have any debt and can afford to bring in 3 quality midfieders in January without screwing over the usual small businesses and charities. This is how Vlad started. Is history about to repeat itself?The turnover of 11m doesn't include the cash they get each month from FOH. Most of that has gone towards the stand in recent times, the remainder to working capital.

They don't claim they have no debt. They have a loan of 2.5m, plus a reasonable amount of trade debt.

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[hibbyfraelibby]

The turnover of 11m doesn't include the cash they get each month from FOH. Most of that has gone towards the stand in recent times, the remainder to working capital.

They don't claim they have no debt. They have a loan of 2.5m, plus a reasonable amount of trade debt.

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The FoH moneys are included in their accounts

[jacomo]

Changing the topic slightly to, um, Hibs, does anyone know what the stand gradients/rakes are at Easter Road?


Optimum.

[CropleyWasGod]

The FoH moneys are included in their accountsYes, but they're not included in turnover. That's why they can afford to pay for the stand, without external debt.

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[hibbyfraelibby]

Yes, but they're not included in turnover. That's why they can afford to pay for the stand, without external debt.

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As a plc they are requiered to include all income, and donations are income however you dress it up. They have to account for all their assets in their balance sheet.

[seanshow]

Whoever the donor / donors are , their identity is being kept completely under wraps .

I've sounded out folks in different circles in the " village " of Edinburgh and nobody has heard anything , not even a rumour or a I've heard but can't say.

Maybe I'll first foot Budge with a bottle of extra strong hooch. :greengrin


Facts that we do know as previously discussed, would include wearing the hidious sample (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_of_Rosebery#/media/File:Lord_roseberryv2.svg), Battenberg away shirt, colours of lord do-dah of dalmeny. One would suggest that this act was not a mere gesture of goodwill.(I don't know if anyone looked further into that)
As far as the yams go if it's legal good luck to them....
If there is skullduggery they can always look forward to docked points and administration.

[CropleyWasGod]

As a plc they are requiered to include all income, and donations are income however you dress it up. They have to account for all their assets in their balance sheet.Whether or not they are a PLC is irrelevant.

However, again, the money they get from FOH isn't turnover. It's a capital contribution which is accounted for through the capital reserves in the Balance Sheet, initially as a contribution to Working Capital, then as a contribution to the cost of the stand, and eventually as repayment of the Bidco loan

It is separate from, in addition to, and accounted differently to, turnover.

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[greenginger]

Yes, but they're not included in turnover. That's why they can afford to pay for the stand, without external debt.

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The maximum FoH will be contributing to the stand construction is £ 3 million.

After that’s been handed over they start saving up to pay Budge her £ 2.5 million plus interest.

[hibbyfraelibby]

The maximum FoH will be contributing to the stand construction is £ 3 million.

After that’s been handed over they start saving up to pay Budge her £ 2.5 million plus interest.

So assuming Crops is up to speed with the current accounting practice they can cover 7.5m only from donations, or half the cost, so in about 20 years they might have paid of the total debt assuming there are no other calls on their working capital reserves.

Still means they're skint for the best part of the 2020s and into the 2030s and living beyond their means unless the change the financial model or find a non FoH donation stream.

[CropleyWasGod]

The maximum FoH will be contributing to the stand construction is £ 3 million.

After that’s been handed over they start saving up to pay Budge her £ 2.5 million plus interest.Explicitly, yes.

But I'm sure that, of the 1.4m or so that they have been contributing to working capital each year, a chunk will have been squirreled away by the club to meet their own share of the cost.

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[inglisavhibs]

Yes, but they're not included in turnover. That's why they can afford to pay for the stand, without external debt.

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The turnover was £11m without the donations and that was all swallowed up with employment and running costs. 6m of the stand costs had been paid with a 2.5m donation and around 3.7m from FOH donations. They still need top find 9m to pay for the rest of the stand. A further donation of 2m and 1.2m (1 year) from FOH will pay some of it but they have still a bit to find. I assume that is why they have just taken out a loan for 1.7m. Their debt at the moment is 2.5m to Budge plus the 1.7m loan and that can only rise in the short term.

[Famous Fiver]

And they are identifying targets in the upcoming transfer window?

Something stinks.

Living beyond their means, again?

TICK TOCK

[greenginger]

Explicitly, yes.

But I'm sure that, of the 1.4m or so that they have been contributing to working capital each year, a chunk will have been squirreled away by the club to meet their own share of the cost.

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Prior to the start of £ 3 million of FoH money going to the stand project, a total of £ 3.94 million was paid towards the clubs working capital. Just under £ 1.4 million/year.

When the stand funding started the working capital funding stopped, and when the £ 3 million towards the stand is reached all Club funding will cease and Budge buy-out will begin.

[greenginger]

The FoH accounts to June 2017 are on their web page.


https://www.foundationofhearts.org/media/297/foundation-of-hearts-signed-full-accounts-30jun17.pdf

[hibbyfraelibby]

The FoH accounts to June 2017 are on their web page.


https://www.foundationofhearts.org/media/297/foundation-of-hearts-signed-full-accounts-30jun17.pdf
So lets get this straight. If a punter makes a donation to FoH it must be recorded in their accounts as turnover yet whe transfered to HMFC the donations are lent to HMFC but deemed impaired and effectively written off so HMFC does not have to record them as liailities on their balance sheet but the donations commit Budge to relinquish control to Bidco so someobe somewhere in this menage a trois must be recording the liability somewhere a la Vlad?

Probably legal and tax efficient somehow owing money to yourself but given the FoH has turnover in excess of 1.5m are they not supposed to be VAT registered and paying HMRC something?

[CropleyWasGod]

So lets get this straight. If a punter makes a donation to FoH it must be recorded in their accounts as turnover yet whe transfered to HMFC the donations are lent to HMFC but deemed impaired and effectively written off so HMFC does not have to record them as liailities on their balance sheet but the donations commit Budge to relinquish control to Bidco so someobe somewhere in this menage a trois must be recording the liability somewhere a la Vlad?

Probably legal and tax efficient somehow owing money to yourself but given the FoH has turnover in excess of 1.5m are they not supposed to be VAT registered and paying HMRC something?

1. it's not written off. It's shown as a Reserve on HMFC's Balance Sheet.

2. No, because donations of this type are outwith the scope of VAT.

[greenginger]

1. it's not written off. It's shown as a Reserve on HMFC's Balance Sheet.

2. No, because donations of this type are outwith the scope of VAT.


Lets see if I've got this right.

Company FoH generates a heap of cash by selling an idea that they will own HOMFC one day.

FoH loans said cash to HOMFC, interest free, to be used as working capital. They then classify the loan to be fully impaired and of no future economic value to FoH.

Now, if I had a company which loaned a few million to myself, then wrote it off, I'd guess I'd be receiving a visit from Hector very soon.

I would guess me being connected to the company would get the red flag waving at HMRC central.

I wonder why its not an issue with FoH and HOMFC. They do have common company directors after all. :confused:

[CropleyWasGod]

Lets see if I've got this right.

Company FoH generates a heap of cash by selling an idea that they will own HOMFC one day.

FoH loans said cash to HOMFC, interest free, to be used as working capital. They then classify the loan to be fully impaired and of no future economic value to FoH.

Now, if I had a company which loaned a few million to myself, then wrote it off, I'd guess I'd be receiving a visit from Hector very soon.

I would guess me being connected to the company would get the red flag waving at HMRC central.

I wonder why its not an issue with FoH and HOMFC. They do have common company directors after all. :confused:Like I say, it hasn't been written off. It's in HMFC's reserves. In time, that reserve will be converted to shares.

If anybody, connected person or not, lends a company money, and that loan is converted to shares, there is no tax charge.

Further, though, the money given by FOH is not a loan. It's a donation. FOH's accounts are explicit in that respect.

[Libby Hibby]

Like I say, it hasn't been written off. It's in HMFC's reserves. In time, that reserve will be converted to shares.

If anybody, connected person or not, lends a company money, and that loan is converted to shares, there is no tax charge.

Further, though, the money given by FOH is not a loan. It's a donation. FOH's accounts are explicit in that respect.

Is it 100% legit or a bending of the law? A legal loophole so to speak.

[CropleyWasGod]

Is it 100% legit or a bending of the law? A legal loophole so to speak.

Which bit?

The donations by fans? The donation by FOH? The conversion of the donations to shares?

I don't see anything wrong with any of it.

[greenginger]

Like I say, it hasn't been written off. It's in HMFC's reserves. In time, that reserve will be converted to shares.

If anybody, connected person or not, lends a company money, and that loan is converted to shares, there is no tax charge.

Further, though, the money given by FOH is not a loan. It's a donation. FOH's accounts are explicit in that respect.


According to FoH accounts note 11, the FoH money is a loan.

2nd para, " ....taking the total advanced as a loan to £ 5,691,274 ........ the directors are of the opinion that this loan has no economic value and as such has been impaired in full. "

[CropleyWasGod]

According to FoH accounts note 11, the FoH money is a loan.

2nd para, " ....taking the total advanced as a loan to £ 5,691,274 ........ the directors are of the opinion that this loan has no economic value and as such has been impaired in full. "

..which is why it is expensed in the P and L account. In substance, it is not a loan.

[greenginger]

..which is why it is expensed in the P and L account. In substance, it is not a loan.


In the FoH , P & L accounts the sums are described as " Exceptional items ", and in the FoH detailed accounts , under the heading of exceptional items, the sums are described as " impaired loans ".

FoH thought they were giving a loan.

[CropleyWasGod]

In the FoH , P & L accounts the sums are described as " Exceptional items ", and in the FoH detailed accounts , under the heading of exceptional items, the sums are described as " impaired loans ".

FoH thought they were giving a loan.

In reality, I'd doubt they ever expected repayment. There would have been a loan agreement drawn up, to protect the FOH donors in the event that the Budge regime collapsed in the early days. But I don't think you'd find anyone who would be thinking "We'll get that money back".

[BSEJVT]

Although shown as a loan that is an accounting accommodation for dealing with the gift.

They knew fine they were donating it.

It then gets shown as an impaired loan before getting written off and the monies and the loan disappear from the accounts no tax paid.

However I do wonder about their dealing with it in this way.

I am sure they know what they are doing and will have researched all the angles but I can imagine the response I would get from HMRC if my company loaned money to my wee brother, who was known to be trading precariously and then wrote the loan off with no effort to recover it whilst he was buying a new library?

[CropleyWasGod]

Although shown as a loan that is an accounting accommodation for dealing with the gift.

They knew fine they were donating it.

It then gets shown as an impaired loan before getting written off and the monies and the loan disappear from the accounts no tax paid.

However I do wonder about their dealing with it in this way.

I am sure they know what they are doing and will have researched all the angles but I can imagine the response I would get from HMRC if my company loaned money to my wee brother, who was known to be trading precariously and then wrote the loan off with no effort to recover it whilst he was buying a new library?

The "loan" hasn't been written off by HMFC, though, which is the important thing. If they went belly-up tomorrow, that money would still be legally due to FOH, regardless of whether they had written it off in their own accounts, and regardless of whether they made a claim to it.

Eventually, it will be converted to shares, which is the ultimate form of loan, albeit worthless in FOH's eyes.

The difference between this situation and the one you use as an example is that, in yours, both companies are (I assume) trading. FOH doesn't trade and is, therefore, not subject to Corporation Tax or Income Tax on written-off loans.

[Peevemor]

It should be remembered that when STF sold ER stadium back to the football club (including, at that time, the 2 new end stands), it was for something like £4m - not even the cost of the stands, let alone the value of the land (including the car park). We weren't crying foul then.

[WhileTheChief..]

^Yup.

Also more recently the deal he did with the bank and us repaying him interest free. The club are benefiting from that.

Aberdeen and Dundee both have wealthy new directors that are putting money into their clubs and no one is batting an eye lid.

Absolutely nothing wrong with someone giving Hearts money. If they want to keep it private that’s entirely up to them too.

A lot of clutching at straws looking for something amiss that isn’t there.

[Joe6-2]

^Yup.

Also more recently the deal he did with the bank and us repaying him interest free. The club are benefiting from that.

Aberdeen and Dundee both have wealthy new directors that are putting money into their clubs and no one is batting an eye lid.

Absolutely nothing wrong with someone giving Hearts money. If they want to keep it private that’s entirely up to them too.

A lot of clutching at straws looking for something amiss that isn’t there.

I think we are suspicious because of their track record

[MrSmith]

I wonder if Vlad is still laundering money through HMFC? His son still owns 5% in shares IIRC?

[CropleyWasGod]

I wonder if Vlad is still laundering money through HMFC? His son still owns 5% in shares IIRC?

It's difficult to tell whether young Rodney is still a shareholder. There isn't a current shareholders list available.

However, as for laundering money, not sure how that could be the case......

Unless you're suggesting that Vlad is one of the benefactors :stirrer:

[greenginger]

There is a new shareholder list just published with the latest confirmation statement.

https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-prod/docs/bb_APVcJz6tGcWmn7MMUFzm74pCC6rjuiIVmt4vZeT0/application-pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=ASIAI6ZXXTZQ457G65OA&Expires=1514639610&Signature=uslIzkapyVAYRJXZFcZqFoZqOHE%3D&x-amz-security-token=FQoDYXdzENX%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2F%2FwEa DMmMe5BnQn5v%2BJ6gWSK3A98AzJxjsu88MQmLNe44CECDm7oD N0tnZDBrWwcGwsq4KciQYa1UVGTCD5ISiZPoWiwxuF18JNa6KD hBo45DadKdRmOYEnLLjb8Yt6O%2F4I9ULww0MMPd8fqfWB%2FP ybfwDyysXbwlF%2FZuPZ4kWdasD%2FNSMEdCzY7hKJHuqByIyr dxRQ7PWN%2Fj3ppTO8AlA2dj9HDknMJYCKrouzia4MnmIvhV9U iX2SKwvk7XeG4bhUggfd2dRDLcNiVBQ8KrzLqCUPGBg1EXj1UF dhNCJ86obiC5GZkHsyrT%2BT%2Fx%2FpoLcoXXjJCdsITEJrA1 o6S8%2BGUbZew5HbFVg77kYSwpjy1U2t5fIWUxBMuXhKw3xxqs 5vZyRmTX1rI6P6l1I%2FjroTLPQt4VRxtGsY9nZArWM1y%2F2P s89IV1X3Bdn%2****Zy%2BUdMhb0piUJjPNJqCMCD0Q%2BHgXB 5OkwRaVRYr4EUuHKciCka9owyeWqdxAz4iINJdYHTOw7nI%2FC 6G3S5hdYvaF2Sg7nf8Jrkln9sgsvGave9f%2BKklai66AP%2BU yV%2FMLLpSQI4sg2xVwJT3cnmIn0Vl6JgMPjXZ8G0t484og%2F ud0gU%3D

Its mention in part 4, but you've got to buy the CD !

I don't think the Romanov's ever held any Hearts shares personally. They first bought into the club the shares wee held in a company called Heart of Midlothian 2005. Its since been struck off and the share holding fell to the Crown.

Trouble was, the crown didn't want them :greengrin . Now Budge, or actually Bidco 1874 has a petition at the High Court to have the shares either allocated to herself or dissolved .

[MrSmith]

It's difficult to tell whether young Rodney is still a shareholder. There isn't a current shareholders list available.

However, as for laundering money, not sure how that could be the case......

Unless you're suggesting that Vlad is one of the benefactors :stirrer:

Concomitantly speaking :cb

[CropleyWasGod]

Concomitantly speaking :cbIt would be a quantum leap.

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[hibbyfraelibby]

Like I say, it hasn't been written off. It's in HMFC's reserves. In time, that reserve will be converted to shares.

If anybody, connected person or not, lends a company money, and that loan is converted to shares, there is no tax charge.

Further, though, the money given by FOH is not a loan. It's a donation. FOH's accounts are explicit in that respect.

But it is written off in FoH's accounts not HMFC's not because it cannot be paid back but because they dont want it paid back because they have an agreement to buy the dodgy diner with the stand attatched. That makes them associated and Hector will probably wait untill that transaction takes place.

[CropleyWasGod]

But it is written off in FoH's accounts not HMFC's not because it cannot be paid back but because they dont want it paid back because they have an agreement to buy the dodgy diner with the stand attatched. That makes them associated and Hector will probably wait untill that transaction takes place.What's Hector going to do?

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[hibbyfraelibby]

It's difficult to tell whether young Rodney is still a shareholder. There isn't a current shareholders list available.

However, as for laundering money, not sure how that could be the case......

Unless you're suggesting that Vlad is one of the benefactors :stirrer:

If there is no Shareholders List, aka the Register, held at the Registered Office and available for inspection at 5 days notice they are in breach of the Companies Act 2006 Chapter 2 Section 112 onwards. All you need do is make the request in the proscribe format and pay the appropriate fee ( charged on the basis of the number of lines of entry). They can only deny you by making application to the court.

[hibbyfraelibby]

What's Hector going to do?

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We are not talking VAT here but Corporation Tax which is a levy on a Company's profits. FoH declares all its income as turnover and retains c50k per year for running costs. It then makes unsecure loans to HMFC to build a new stand i.e. create an asset. Once it has loaned a specified amount it actually gets to own HMFC, its assets and its liabilities.

FoH makes effectively a profit of 1.4m per year, impairs and then writes off the debt to avoid making a profit but in a few years actually realises the value of the loan through the ownership of HMFC and makes an actual profit.

Now is that Tax Avoidance or Tax Evasion Hector asks himself when that day comes?

[hibbyfraelibby]

The difference between this situation and the one you use as an example is that, in yours, both companies are (I assume) trading. FOH doesn't trade and is, therefore, not subject to Corporation Tax or Income Tax on written-off loans.

Ah but FoH is trading. It is a membership organisation and it is making loans available. It trades every day as the dds roll in and it expends money on running costs managing its fundraising and loan activities. It is not a dormant company.

[CropleyWasGod]

Ah but FoH is trading. It is a membership organisation and it is making loans available. It trades every day as the dds roll in and it expends money on running costs managing its fundraising and loan activities. It is not a dormant company.That's not the definition of trading.

The accounts explicitly state that it isn't trading, and i wouldn't disagree with that. I can't see why HMRC would either.

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[hibbyfraelibby]

That's not the definition of trading.

The accounts explicitly state that it isn't trading, and i wouldn't disagree with that. I can't see why HMRC would either.

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Well this is and they quite clearly meet the definition even though they make the declaration in their accounts. The following is quoted directly from HMRC aka Hector

What is active for Corporation Tax purposes
Generally your company or organisation is considered to be active for Corporation Tax purposes when it is, for example:

carrying on a business activity such as a trade or professional activity
buying and selling goods with a view to making a profit or surplus
providing services
earning interest
managing investments
receiving any other income
This definition of being active for Corporation Tax purposes is not necessarily the same as that used by HMRC in relation to other tax areas such as VAT, or by other government agencies such as Companies House.

It may also not match definitions in the various accounting conventions that are used to prepare audited accounts, such as the Financial Reporting Standards issued by the Accounting Standards Board, or the International Financial Reporting Standards issued by the International Accounting Standards Board.

[CropleyWasGod]

Well this is and they quite clearly meet the definition even though they make the declaration in their accounts. The following is quoted directly from HMRC aka Hector

What is active for Corporation Tax purposes
Generally your company or organisation is considered to be active for Corporation Tax purposes when it is, for example:

carrying on a business activity such as a trade or professional activity
buying and selling goods with a view to making a profit or surplus
providing services
earning interest
managing investments
receiving any other income
This definition of being active for Corporation Tax purposes is not necessarily the same as that used by HMRC in relation to other tax areas such as VAT, or by other government agencies such as Companies House.

It may also not match definitions in the various accounting conventions that are used to prepare audited accounts, such as the Financial Reporting Standards issued by the Accounting Standards Board, or the International Financial Reporting Standards issued by the International Accounting Standards Board.It's active, but it's not trading. There is a big difference.

Tax students answer exam questions on this kind of stuff. The better ones can tell the difference between trading, active and dormant. I can too, as I mark the ICAS final tax exams.:)

FOH is not trading.

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[hibbyfraelibby]

It's active, but it's not trading. There is a big difference.

Tax students answer exam questions on this kind of stuff. The better ones can tell the difference between trading, active and dormant. I can too, as I mark the ICAS final tax exams.:)

FOH is not trading.

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

FoH say they are not trading but HMRC rules consider them to be trading. I am the Company Secretary of such an organisation so I see your exam marking credentials and raise you my legal status.

[Cat Stanton]

Could you two get a room? This is a rubbish spectator sport...

[Mr White]

FoH say they are not trading but HMRC rules consider them to be trading. I am the Company Secretary of such an organisation so I see your exam marking credentials and raise you my legal status.

Oooft.. hit him with your IQ now while he's on the ropes :greengrin

[malcolm]

It's active, but it's not trading. There is a big difference.

Tax students answer exam questions on this kind of stuff. The better ones can tell the difference between trading, active and dormant. I can too, as I mark the ICAS final tax exams.:)

FOH is not trading.

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You are admirably patient, tolerant and not a bit condescending even if that might be expected to be concomitant in such circumstances :greengrin

[McD]

FoH say they are not trading but HMRC rules consider them to be trading. I am the Company Secretary of such an organisation so I see your exam marking credentials and raise you my legal status.


You have a real bee in your bonnet about this... given FOH have been in existence for a few years now, don’t you think someone at HMRC would have looked at them by now, if there was something to look at.

btw, to the total lay person (me), it seems like you’re mixing up your descriptions. The HMRC regs you’ve quoted only refer to the word ‘active’, not the word ‘trading’. All you’ve proved is that they are active, not that they are trading.

either way, I doubt much will change for them in the next wee while anyway, hope you’re having a nice festive period :greengrin

[hibbyfraelibby]

Oooft.. hit him with your IQ now while he's on the ropes :greengrin

That would be below the belt such is its magnitude😊

[CropleyWasGod]

FoH say they are not trading but HMRC rules consider them to be trading. I am the Company Secretary of such an organisation so I see your exam marking credentials and raise you my legal status.

Which HMRC rules are they? You quoted HMRC guidance on what constitutes an "active" company, not a "trading" one. As i say, there is a big difference.

Whether a business, incorporated or not, is trading, depends on a number of factors. These are known as the Badges of Trade, and it is the cumulative assessment of these which will determine whether a business is trading or not.

Do you think that Scott-Moncrieff, albeit not auditors, would prepare a set of accounts with such a blatant lie as "the company is not trading" in them? If so, do you want ICAS' number? :greengrin

[Carheenlea]

Financial expertise on a subject is all well and good, but I preferred the funny pictures.

[Mr White]

You have a real bee in your bonnet about this... given FOH have been in existence for a few years now, don’t you think someone at HMRC would have looked at them by now, if there was something to look at.

btw, to the total pay person (me), it seems like you’re mixing up your descriptions. The HMRC regs you’ve quoted only refer to the word ‘active’, not the word ‘trading’. All you’ve proved is that they are active, not that they are trading.

either way, I doubt much will change for them in the next wee while anyway, hope you’re having a nice festive period :greengrin

The club also appointed some high profile tax lawyer to their board of directors a year or so ago didn't they?

While I'd love to see them make a mess of their tax affairs (again) in the same way they've mucked up building their new stand, I doubt it's going to happen over this.

[hibbyfraelibby]

You have a real bee in your bonnet about this... given FOH have been in existence for a few years now, don’t you think someone at HMRC would have looked at them by now, if there was something to look at.

btw, to the total lay person (me), it seems like you’re mixing up your descriptions. The HMRC regs you’ve quoted only refer to the word ‘active’, not the word ‘trading’. All you’ve proved is that they are active, not that they are trading.

either way, I doubt much will change for them in the next wee while anyway, hope you’re having a nice festive period :greengrin

The point I am making is relevant to that time in the future when ownership changes. Hector will be watching to see if tax is being avoided or evaded.

[CropleyWasGod]

The point I am making is relevant to that time in the future when ownership changes. Hector will be watching to see if tax is being avoided or evaded.

What would HMRC do? Conversion of reserves to equity is not taxable.

[CropleyWasGod]

Financial expertise on a subject is all well and good, but I preferred the funny pictures.

Trust me, so do I :greengrin

[Firestarter]

Their support are putting a hell of a lot more than hours for **** all really only to help the club. If only our fans where as passionate about funding our club as they are about way Hearts have cheated.

[greenginger]

The "loan" hasn't been written off by HMFC, though, which is the important thing. If they went belly-up tomorrow, that money would still be legally due to FOH, regardless of whether they had written it off in their own accounts, and regardless of whether they made a claim to it.

Eventually, it will be converted to shares, which is the ultimate form of loan, albeit worthless in FOH's eyes.

The difference between this situation and the one you use as an example is that, in yours, both companies are (I assume) trading. FOH doesn't trade and is, therefore, not subject to Corporation Tax or Income Tax on written-off loans.


My company's status was changed to non-trading a few years ago because majority of the business turnover is rental income and investment income.

I can assure you the company has a Corporation Tax bill to settle every year .

[JohnMcM]

Could you two get a room? This is a rubbish spectator sport...


You may have just posted the last really funny thing on here in 2017.

:faf::faf::top marks:faf::faf:

[CropleyWasGod]

My company's status was changed to non-trading a few years ago because majority of the business turnover is rental income and investment income.

I can assure you the company has a Corporation Tax bill to settle every year .

Tax on rental and investment income, of course, and that's correct.

But the point at hand is that FOH isn't trading, and has no taxable income. As such, it is outwith the scope of Corporation Tax.

As an aside, it makes losses. Even it it were trading, there would be no tax to pay.

[hibbyfraelibby]

What would HMRC do? Conversion of reserves to equity is not taxable.

But they are not converting reserves to equity are they, they are currently making loans.

Anyway enough for now . Have a good new year when it comes as there are bound to be lots of new funny pictures to laugh at.

[CropleyWasGod]

But they are not converting reserves to equity are they, they are currently making loans.

Anyway enough for now . Have a good new year when it comes as there are bound to be lots of new funny pictures to laugh at.

HMFC are making the conversion.

[Deansy]

Their support are putting a hell of a lot more than hours for **** all really only to help the club. If only our fans where as passionate about funding our club as they are about way Hearts have cheated.

It's totally different circumstances - their support had to put their money in to save their club from going out of existence after it's decades of 'Other People's Money' !. Our club - properly, professionally and honestly run - isn't under any threat, there's not the same vital urgency.

[Thecat23]

Their support are putting a hell of a lot more than hours for **** all really only to help the club. If only our fans where as passionate about funding our club as they are about way Hearts have cheated.

Only because it was/is to keep them afloat. Look at Hands Off Hibs, if we ever needed it we’d easily make the money to help the club.

[pacorosssco]

always dodgy stuff going on at hearts.

[Mantis Toboggan]

Only because it was/is to keep them afloat. Look at Hands Off Hibs, if we ever needed it we’d easily make the money to help the club.

Exactly. They were at deaths door.
Still doesn't explain the literal cash cow. Nothing can justify that.

[NAE NOOKIE]

Their support are putting a hell of a lot more than hours for **** all really only to help the club. If only our fans where as passionate about funding our club as they are about way Hearts have cheated.

:top marks

I'm ashamed to be a Hibs fan sometimes, utterly ashamed. Look at all the clubs who have a better set up than HSL, there's Hearts and then there's erm, there's um .... sorry, I should have done some research, I'm sure there are loads out there.

But anyway, bang on Firestarter .... Just because Hibs aren't at deaths door that doesn't mean to say that folk like me who have bought shares, buy a measly £400 season ticket every year and spend about another £300 just getting to games shouldn't be digging deeper to fund the club. The one good thing is that in our very own city we have a set of fans to look up to.

[Thecat23]

Exactly. They were at deaths door.
Still doesn't explain the literal cash cow. Nothing can justify that.

Yeah the cash cow is just weird! 😂

[SuperAllyMcleod]

Could you two get a room? This is a rubbish spectator sport...

I agree, I used to really enjoy this thread.

[Heisenberg]

The cash cow really got me, it was hilarious. Just absolute begging from them, trying to get everything and anything they can out of their own fans as they didn’t have enough for the new stand on their own.

[Keith_M]

Financial expertise on a subject is all well and good, but I preferred the funny pictures.


Trust me, so do I :greengrin


OK....



https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8a/9b/98/8a9b984ffcaf2e0d369d1a0f29b7b5e5.jpg

[CropleyWasGod]

OK....



https://i.pinimg.com/originals/8a/9b/98/8a9b984ffcaf2e0d369d1a0f29b7b5e5.jpgFinally, someone gets it. [emoji7]

Sent from my SM-A510F using Tapatalk

[BSEJVT]

:top marks

I'm ashamed to be a Hibs fan sometimes, utterly ashamed. Look at all the clubs who have a better set up than HSL, there's Hearts and then there's erm, there's um .... sorry, I should have done some research, I'm sure there are loads out there.

But anyway, bang on Firestarter .... Just because Hibs aren't at deaths door that doesn't mean to say that folk like me who have bought shares, buy a measly £400 season ticket every year and spend about another £300 just getting to games shouldn't be digging deeper to fund the club. The one good thing is that in our very own city we have a set of fans to look up to.

There is nothing the matter with HSL that a renewed vigour to it wouldn't sort.

That doesn't however alter the fact that Hearts fans raise more than 10 times what Hibs fans do per annum to support their team in addition to the other monies that we all spend actually following Hibs,

Whether its now 5 or 10 years from now or whenever that money will go into their playing budget and give them a huge advantage.

There are any number of Hibs fans deluding themselves that it wont matter, it will. Many many more who hark back to the different situations that led to the founding of FOH & HSL and justify that as the reasons for their comparative performances.

By all means don't contribute to HSL its an individual choice, but don't criticise those who see the car crash coming in the distance and are trying to prevent it.

At the end of the day despite their differing motivations one day soon Hearts playing budget will be boosted by supporters donations more than 10 times greater than Hibs budget will be.

No one at Tynecastle will give a jot why that is the situation, but unless we wise up to it and those that can afford to start contributing, we will be handing them an advantage by out intransigence and arrogance over the deparation of their scheme's origin.

Happy New Year to all

[Nameless]

Yeah the cash cow is just weird! [emoji23]Be fair, she's not weird, she just looks awful in that jacket.

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[WoreTheGreen]

Be fair, she's not weird, she just looks awful in that jacket.

Sent from my D5503 using Tapatalk

A bit harsh afterall it’s friesian oot there

[Jack Hackett]

The cash cow really got me, it was hilarious. Just absolute begging from them, trying to get everything and anything they can out of their own fans as they didn’t have enough for the new stand on their own.

Are we talking about the plastic one or the Polyfilla one?... I get so confused :confused:

[Crazyhorse]

A bit harsh afterall it’s friesian oot there

Hopefully she will have a jersey to match, snow predicted for next weekend.

[Skol]

There is nothing the matter with HSL that a renewed vigour to it wouldn't sort.

That doesn't however alter the fact that Hearts fans raise more than 10 times what Hibs fans do per annum to support their team in addition to the other monies that we all spend actually following Hibs,

Whether its now 5 or 10 years from now or whenever that money will go into their playing budget and give them a huge advantage.

There are any number of Hibs fans deluding themselves that it wont matter, it will. Many many more who hark back to the different situations that led to the founding of FOH & HSL and justify that as the reasons for their comparative performances.

By all means don't contribute to HSL its an individual choice, but don't criticise those who see the car crash coming in the distance and are trying to prevent it.

At the end of the day despite their differing motivations one day soon Hearts playing budget will be boosted by supporters donations more than 10 times greater than Hibs budget will be.

No one at Tynecastle will give a jot why that is the situation, but unless we wise up to it and those that can afford to start contributing, we will be handing them an advantage by out intransigence and arrogance over the deparation of their scheme's origin.

Happy New Year to all

You make a good point about FoH and the long term advantage and I fully get and see that and credit to the Hearts fans for digging deep. However for me there is a limit to how much I am prepared to pay for my football. I am going to need to pay for 2 adult STs from next season and that along with other regular purchases etc is what I feel is right to pay. If I was to pay another £20 pcm then I wouldnt be getting value for what I pay.

[tamig]

You make a good point about FoH and the long term advantage and I fully get and see that and credit to the Hearts fans for digging deep. However for me there is a limit to how much I am prepared to pay for my football. I am going to need to pay for 2 adult STs from next season and that along with other regular purchases etc is what I feel is right to pay. If I was to pay another £20 pcm then I wouldnt be getting value for what I pay.
Even if you knew that additional £20 a month was helping to fund new quality signings we may not otherwise be able to afford. That would represent value for money to me.

[BSEJVT]

You make a good point about FoH and the long term advantage and I fully get and see that and credit to the Hearts fans for digging deep. However for me there is a limit to how much I am prepared to pay for my football. I am going to need to pay for 2 adult STs from next season and that along with other regular purchases etc is what I feel is right to pay. If I was to pay another £20 pcm then I wouldnt be getting value for what I pay.

Entirely fair point

Value like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I don't think of value though when making my HSL contributions or banging the drum for HSL

I recognise that I am in the fortunate position of being able to afford to contribute to HSL without it affecting our lifestyle and want to do my bit to help make sure that any advantage they have over us is minimised as far as possible.

Their years of financial cheating and the advantage it gave them over us on the park annoyed me hugely, I will be absolutely distraught if they can gain that advantage legitimately and I had sat back and watched it happen without trying to do anything to prevent it.

My fear is that by the time the time that day is upon us it will be too late and I know that the time for action is now to try and prevent this.

[Famous Fiver]

Anyone know if the army of builders and assorted others were employed on the monstrosity over the holiday period or did it all come to a shuddering halt?

I am interested in the state of the pitch which was a tattie field when we played them on 27th, the cup tie is coming up. The weather forecast for the next couple of weeks is not encouraging, so I see another tattie field coming up.

Supreme irony, though,'Medals' Mackay urging purchase of a couple of creative midfielders to allow them to gain fourth place. Spat my tea out when I read that. It's more likely to be Clydesdale horses drawing a plough who will prosper on that surface.

Creative midfielders, oh ma sides.

[Joe6-2]

Anyone know if the army of builders and assorted others were employed on the monstrosity over the holiday period or did it all come to a shuddering halt?

I am interested in the state of the pitch which was a tattie field when we played them on 27th, the cup tie is coming up. The weather forecast for the next couple of weeks is not encouraging, so I see another tattie field coming up.

Supreme irony, though,'Medals' Mackay urging purchase of a couple of creative midfielders to allow them to gain fourth place. Spat my tea out when I read that. It's more likely to be Clydesdale horses drawing a plough who will prosper on that surface.

Creative midfielders, oh ma sides.

As usual the main objective is just to be better than Hibs

[Kato]

I am interested in the state of the pitch which was a tattie field when we played them on 27th, the cup tie is coming up. The weather forecast for the next couple of weeks is not encouraging, so I see another tattie field coming up.


Doesn't matter what the weather is like the pitch will be churned up. Deliberate.

[jacomo]

:top marks

I'm ashamed to be a Hibs fan sometimes, utterly ashamed. Look at all the clubs who have a better set up than HSL, there's Hearts and then there's erm, there's um .... sorry, I should have done some research, I'm sure there are loads out there.

But anyway, bang on Firestarter .... Just because Hibs aren't at deaths door that doesn't mean to say that folk like me who have bought shares, buy a measly £400 season ticket every year and spend about another £300 just getting to games shouldn't be digging deeper to fund the club. The one good thing is that in our very own city we have a set of fans to look up to.


:agree:

In all this chat about HSL, it shouldn't be forgotten that the Hibs family are backing their club heavily right now, with bumper home attendances and all the rest.

[CockneyRebel]

Entirely fair point

Value like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.

I don't think of value though when making my HSL contributions or banging the drum for HSL

I recognise that I am in the fortunate position of being able to afford to contribute to HSL without it affecting our lifestyle and want to do my bit to help make sure that any advantage they have over us is minimised as far as possible.

Their years of financial cheating and the advantage it gave them over us on the park annoyed me hugely, I will be absolutely distraught if they can gain that advantage legitimately and I had sat back and watched it happen without trying to do anything to prevent it.

My fear is that by the time the time that day is upon us it will be too late and I know that the time for action is now to try and prevent this.



Are you sure that these direct debits to FOH will continue into the distant future? All the jambos I know see it as a finite set up and not a forever kind of contribution.

[HibbyAl]

There is nothing the matter with HSL that a renewed vigour to it wouldn't sort.

That doesn't however alter the fact that Hearts fans raise more than 10 times what Hibs fans do per annum to support their team in addition to the other monies that we all spend actually following Hibs,

Whether its now 5 or 10 years from now or whenever that money will go into their playing budget and give them a huge advantage.

There are any number of Hibs fans deluding themselves that it wont matter, it will. Many many more who hark back to the different situations that led to the founding of FOH & HSL and justify that as the reasons for their comparative performances.

By all means don't contribute to HSL its an individual choice, but don't criticise those who see the car crash coming in the distance and are trying to prevent it.

At the end of the day despite their differing motivations one day soon Hearts playing budget will be boosted by supporters donations more than 10 times greater than Hibs budget will be.

No one at Tynecastle will give a jot why that is the situation, but unless we wise up to it and those that can afford to start contributing, we will be handing them an advantage by out intransigence and arrogance over the deparation of their scheme's origin.

Happy New Year to all

One day soon? Aren't their donations helping to pay for their new stand and after that it will go to pay back Budge?

Think it will be a few years before that's all paid off. And once it's paid back how do you know they will all continue to contribute extra.

[Jack Hackett]

One day soon? Aren't their donations helping to pay for their new stand and after that it will go to pay back Budge?

Think it will be a few years before that's all paid off. And once it's paid back how do you know they will all continue to contribute extra.

There was an article in the EN recently, stating 2020 as the new projected date for her handing over shares. This probably equates to 2025 in the real world.

[Alan62]

They have managed to normalise overpaying. With good communications, they should be able to refocus the donations on whatever essential purchase is required: stand, ownership, players. The circumstances of the creation of FOH also allowed people to assess where the club sat in their personal priorities and encouraged people to sacrifice other elements of their lives in return for the continued existence of their club. For me, that’s a key differentiator. FOH is seen as everybody’s business at Hearts while HSL is an optional choice for wealthy Hibs fans. People with very modest incomes donate sizeable sums to FOH to the detriment of their personal lifestyles.


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[Bostonhibby]

Are you sure that these direct debits to FOH will continue into the distant future? All the jambos I know see it as a finite set up and not a forever kind of contribution.I know two. The one I am related to set up the DD, and according to his wife pulled out because he decided that Budge had saved them so it wasn't needed. It was in fact stopped without a penny being paid.

The other one intended to pay for one year and did just that. Fair play to him.

I don't think it's a sustainable business model or a business model at all as the factors that affect people's good intentions are not in the control of the football business except where a dip in the teams fortunes might see an element of the DD contributors stopping.

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[BSEJVT]

Are you sure that these direct debits to FOH will continue into the distant future? All the jambos I know see it as a finite set up and not a forever kind of contribution.

The contributions are set up UFN

Despite a pretty crap time on and off the pitch they have held up well

Conversely every Hearts supporter I know sees it as an ongoing donation

Many of the HSL supporters see their contributions to HSL continuing until they die.

Forgive me for putting this on you, but this is another example of straw clutching, wishful thinking or burying your head in the sand.

FOH already own more of Hearts than HSL do off Hibs

They have funded part of Hearts working capital for the last 3 years.

What is going to take for folk to waken up to the fact that they have and are likely to continue to have a huge advantage.

Don't contribute to HSL if you don't want to / cant afford to, but lets not pretend that this isn't an issue because it is and will become increasingly so once their contributions aren't needed to buy shares or pay for stands.

Even if half of them chuck it, the extra money the other half contribute would buy them the equivalent of a Jason Cummings fee per season

[BSEJVT]

One day soon? Aren't their donations helping to pay for their new stand and after that it will go to pay back Budge?

Think it will be a few years before that's all paid off. And once it's paid back how do you know they will all continue to contribute extra.

They already own 20%

How do you know it wont?

Are you prepared to take that chance / hand them that advantage?

Even if half them chuck it, the extra income the other half pay would pay for a Jason Cummings type signing every year.

[Alan62]

While I have no evidence for this, I also suspect that bigging up the relative successes of FOH v HSL keeps a lot of the Jambo donors in the programme.


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[hibbyfraelibby]

The contributions are set up UFN


FOH already own more of Hearts than HSL do off Hibs

They have funded part of Hearts working capital for the last 3 years.



Are you quite sure of fhat "fact"? As I understood it £2.5m was used to pay off the CVA by funding BIDCO and that money was Budge's and as such FoH have not bought any shares in the club but have an agreement to "buy" the club from Budge in 3 years time once they have paid off her investment inc 6% intetest pa. FoH are making contributions to Working Capital none of which transfers into shareholding.

Surely the correct situation is that HSL as confirmed by our CEO in a text to the BBC owns 30% of Hibernian FC and that FoH owns 100% of a promise of future ownership after 2020?

[MyJo]

One day soon? Aren't their donations helping to pay for their new stand and after that it will go to pay back Budge?

Think it will be a few years before that's all paid off. And once it's paid back how do you know they will all continue to contribute extra.

thier donations were meant to be buying the club from Ann Budge and transferring to full fan ownership via FoH.

The £6m or so they had raised for this over the last 3 years has all been put towards working costs and the building of the new stand with the remainder of the costs coming from mysterious "donations" and loans from Budge which will be paid back with 6% interest before any donated money starts being used for share purchases.

I may be wrong on this but i also think that the money Budge used to buy the club is a loan which is also being charged at 6% interest (suspended for a a couple of years while they build the stand)while its being paid back, she has essentially loaned hearts money to buy the club and the "donations" to FoH will be used to repay the money to Budge to allow them to take ownership of the club.

As it stands the fans own absolutely nowt while thier "donations" to FoH will be paying back several million pounds worth of loans from Ann budge, plus 6% pa, for the forseeable future. Only once that has happened and FoH take full ownership of the club would any "donations" from the fans have the slightest impact on the budget or squad at thier disposal.

Can Hearts really hope to maintain an income of £2m a year purely from donations for the next 5 to 10 years while this happens?

Its a highly unsustainable model that is reliant on a steady income stream of funds from supporters over and above the normal income from ticket sales/merchandise etc. If the Hearts fans continue to pay money to the club hand over fist for the next decade to pay off thier debts to Budge and plow money into the playing squad then good on them but that is many years down the road and honestly i can't see it happening myself.

[CropleyWasGod]

Are you quite sure of fhat "fact"? As I understood it £2.5m was used to pay off the CVA by funding BIDCO and that money was Budge's and as such FoH have not bought any shares in the club but have an agreement to "buy" the club from Budge in 3 years time once they have paid off her investment inc 6% intetest pa. FoH are making contributions to Working Capital none of which transfers into shareholding.

Surely the correct situation is that HSL as confirmed by our CEO in a text to the BBC owns 30% of Hibernian FC and that FoH owns 100% of a promise of future ownership after 2020?

HSL don't own anything like 30% of the club; I think it's about 15%. The combined holding of theirs, and independent shareholders, is about 34% now.

FOH have 20% of the voting rights of the shares that Bidco has in HMFC, but they don't own any shares.

[greenginger]

Are you quite sure of fhat "fact"? As I understood it £2.5m was used to pay off the CVA by funding BIDCO and that money was Budge's and as such FoH have not bought any shares in the club but have an agreement to "buy" the club from Budge in 3 years time once they have paid off her investment inc 6% intetest pa. FoH are making contributions to Working Capital none of which transfers into shareholding.

Surely the correct situation is that HSL as confirmed by our CEO in a text to the BBC owns 30% of Hibernian FC and that FoH owns 100% of a promise of future ownership after 2020?

Here is the FoH / Bidco Budge agreement re stand funding.

https://www.foundationofhearts.org/news/ann-budge-s-offer/

I think they have contributed £ 2 million to the stand project so they will own 20 % of the club shares with another 15 % due when the total of £ 3 million is reached.

I think its HSL and other share holders , not just HSL, that have the 30 + %

[hibbyfraelibby]

HSL don't own anything like 30% of the club; I think it's about 15%. The combined holding of theirs, and independent shareholders, is about 34% now.

FOH have 20% of the voting rights in HMFC, but they don't own any shares.
So our CEO told the BBC an on the record porkie that our fans owned more than 30%?

[Mikey]

HSL don't own anything like 30% of the club; I think it's about 15%. The combined holding of theirs, and independent shareholders, is about 34% now.

FOH have 20% of the voting rights of the shares that Bidco has in HMFC, but they don't own any shares.


So our CEO told the BBC an on the record porkie that our fans owned more than 30%?

:dizzy:

[Mikey]

There is nothing the matter with HSL that a renewed vigour to it wouldn't sort.......



It's really disappointing to see how much resistance you're getting here. And that's before the militant wing gets moving, which they will if there's a relaunch.

[CropleyWasGod]

So our CEO told the BBC an on the record porkie that our fans owned more than 30%?

Um, no.

She told them the truth. Read my post again :wink:

[CentreLine]

So our CEO told the BBC an on the record porkie that our fans owned more than 30%?

No not at all. The combined fan ownership, between HSL and fans that already own shares, is in excess of 30%. Our CEO declared it absolutely correctly. :flag:

[CropleyWasGod]

Here is the FoH / Bidco Budge agreement re stand funding.

https://www.foundationofhearts.org/news/ann-budge-s-offer/

I think they have contributed £ 2 million to the stand project so they will own 20 % of the club shares with another 15 % due when the total of £ 3 million is reached.

I think its HSL and other share holders , not just HSL, that have the 30 + %

Yet the accounts say that only the voting rights have been transferred, and only 20% of the rights attached to Bidco's shares at that.. :confused:

[greenginger]

So our CEO told the BBC an on the record porkie that our fans owned more than 30%?

The other share holders are presumably fans.

I count myself as one. :greengrin

There are also various Nominees, like Duddingston Nominees, East Lothian Nominees, Hilton Park Nominees , etc. about 12 in all who own holdings of between 625,000 and 1,250,000 shares. Not sure who is behind the various nominee companies.

[greenginger]

Yet the accounts say that only the voting rights have been transferred, and only 20% of the rights attached to Bidco's shares at that.. :confused:


The agreement says when FoH contribute £ 1.5 m ( not £ 2 m. ) Bidco will
transfer a 20 % share holding in the club to the foundation.

Budge must be a student of Vlad, who would have thought. :greengrin

[hibbyfraelibby]

The other share holders are presumably fans.

I count myself as one. :greengrin

There are also various Nominees, like Duddingston Nominees, East Lothian Nominees, Hilton Park Nominees , etc. about 12 in all who own holdings of between 625,000 and 1,250,000 shares. Not sure who is behind the various nominee companies.

Heart of Midlothian F.C. - In 2014, when the club were in administration, the Edinburgh club was bought over by the Ann Budge fronted Bidco group. Although fans do not control any shares currently, the Bidco group plan to hold the club for a possible five years before the fans backed Foundation of Hearts supporters group take control. The 2014/15 away strip featured Foundation of Hearts as its chief sponsor, and the 2015/16 third strip featured the names of 8000 supporters who donate to the foundation.[67]
Hibernian F.C. - 34% owned by fans. In December 2014, the club publicised plans to sell up to 51% ownership of the club to its supporters.[68] The fan shareholding in June 2017 stood at 34%[69]

[CropleyWasGod]

The agreement says when FoH contribute £ 1.5 m ( not £ 2 m. ) Bidco will
transfer a 20 % share holding in the club to the foundation.

Budge must be a student of Vlad, who would have thought. :greengrin

I know it's a pedantic point (in this context, shares are all about "voting rights").... but either the agreement is wrong, or the accounts are.

Or else AB slipped in the "voting rights" bit without telling anyone, which renders your last sentence bang on the money :greengrin

[CropleyWasGod]

Heart of Midlothian F.C. - In 2014, when the club were in administration, the Edinburgh club was bought over by the Ann Budge fronted Bidco group. Although fans do not control any shares currently, the Bidco group plan to hold the club for a possible five years before the fans backed Foundation of Hearts supporters group take control. The 2014/15 away strip featured Foundation of Hearts as its chief sponsor, and the 2015/16 third strip featured the names of 8000 supporters who donate to the foundation.[67]
Hibernian F.C. - 34% owned by fans. In December 2014, the club publicised plans to sell up to 51% ownership of the club to its supporters.[68] The fan shareholding in June 2017 stood at 34%[69]

... but not HSL.

[BSEJVT]

Here is the FoH / Bidco Budge agreement re stand funding.

https://www.foundationofhearts.org/news/ann-budge-s-offer/

I think they have contributed £ 2 million to the stand project so they will own 20 % of the club shares with another 15 % due when the total of £ 3 million is reached.

I think its HSL and other share holders , not just HSL, that have the 30 + %

This was my understanding of the situation also

That understanding was given to me by someone I expect is fully informed as to the situation.

[CropleyWasGod]

This was my understanding of the situation also

That understanding was given to me by someone I expect is fully informed as to the situation.

Does he know they've only got voting rights, and nae shares? :greengrin

[BSEJVT]

It's really disappointing to see how much resistance you're getting here. And that's before the militant wing gets moving, which they will if there's a relaunch.

Folk either contribute or they don't, its a free choice influenced further by ability to pay,

No-one should feel bad because their circumstances don't allow them to contribute, and I cant repeat that enough.

What saddens me a bit is folk putting out excuse after excuse as to why FOH has more traction and how it will all unravel and we have nothing to worry about.

Not interested, no problem, walk on by, but don't try and salve your conscience by inventing increasingly implausible reasons as to why the car crash will never come.

It most certainly will unless we waken up to it and take steps to combat it.

To me it looks like the ostrich approach and the first time folk will realise there is a problem is when the lion is eating their arse as they couldn't see it sneaking up as their heads were buried.

We have suffered most of my adult life through their financial doping.

I wont sit idly by and allow them to gain a fair financial advantage for the sake of typing a few words here and there in the hope that it might alert folk to the looming problem that are able and willing to do something about it.

[Ronniekirk]

Folk either contribute or they don't, its a free choice influenced further by ability to pay,

No-one should feel bad because their circumstances don't allow them to contribute, and I cant repeat that enough.

What saddens me a bit is folk putting out excuse after excuse as to why FOH has more traction and how it will all unravel and we have nothing to worry about.

Not interested, no problem, walk on by, but don't try and salve your conscience by inventing increasingly implausible reasons as to why the car crash will never come.

It most certainly will unless we waken up to it and take steps to combat it.

To me it looks like the ostrich approach and the first time folk will realise there is a problem is when the lion is eating their arse as they couldn't see it sneaking up as their heads were buried.

We have suffered most of my adult life through their financial doping.

I wont sit idly by and allow them to gain a fair financial advantage for the sake of typing a few words here and there in the hope that it might alert folk to the looming problem that are able and willing to do something about it.

And i wont be allowing any Lion to eat ma Ass


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[greenginger]

Here is a list of the shareholders and their holdings at 31/12/2016.


https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-prod/docs/ySVpb21AZ773oJYZgsQkRyb3uRLfGxCOsUdyT8vvWcs/application-pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=ASIAJSDKWQTLLKGBBXIA&Expires=1515001154&Signature=MaTDNKmlYdClyK3z98mFU%2BbyXQM%3D&x-amz-security-token=FQoDYXdzEEkaDNWT98vJor4U1hsbiiK3A8ZD1nEtzcal yJfMZI7D9Ie6Hrx1IaeQFMXHnqDsR%2Bgcb7UYYXZbOg339Cxd hFSxYCS%2FrysRCLadOhACiypLGScPdGnFDwPBJIGbHL6xNijc Sb5KBqLI8ZX0JKW4zQjX5coT2QBpS6x4PxlqHnn5pzJiYrYeig I%2FrtPUp4mlPGJZ3KoIObXJL%2FaYd6T4EmT48dWLzI4nZXej SCARopWAdOuhUb6fvdqqh%2FzdRqWtN9rsBT9OrfuDPCBBKPJ0 l3bx7wqA0xC%2BJWqWO2DGv4Q55lskf9U5DRDC4RjYhruX3jBF XJwo3yfYYck1JynXsVNIJFjusnVDd2%2Bux2yg48A8ETTxdTtI RNBtROYxiAmjHyMSRXLINEUPrQh7s%2B5cKwv1glZXEJfHEyOh Me7KaoOSs464TrvOeGs7XF1hrsmYhypTphGR3SkwLyH34aLgQ5 cf65rbueCduyXpASWEs4E83wSroZyZWuNgv%2BAO%2FiDaP9Mp PU9offpUMrd5cdF6vJrfcyB8G2Sm4FEcqjU5oojEovxZmaTsRE ji7UOzcDwwrDNcso8e7g99km9Ufvg3IdOU9gIHzhnCiokooOqz 0gU%3D

There will be a new list to 31/12/2017 published in a month or so.

[Bostonhibby]

Does he know they've only got voting rights, and nae shares? :greengrinThey really really really don't have a single share in the hands of any FOH savers. One fan continues to have an iron grip on the holding that matters.

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[CropleyWasGod]

Here is a list of the shareholders and their holdings at 31/12/2016.


https://s3-eu-west-1.amazonaws.com/document-api-images-prod/docs/ySVpb21AZ773oJYZgsQkRyb3uRLfGxCOsUdyT8vvWcs/application-pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=ASIAJSDKWQTLLKGBBXIA&Expires=1515001154&Signature=MaTDNKmlYdClyK3z98mFU%2BbyXQM%3D&x-amz-security-token=FQoDYXdzEEkaDNWT98vJor4U1hsbiiK3A8ZD1nEtzcal yJfMZI7D9Ie6Hrx1IaeQFMXHnqDsR%2Bgcb7UYYXZbOg339Cxd hFSxYCS%2FrysRCLadOhACiypLGScPdGnFDwPBJIGbHL6xNijc Sb5KBqLI8ZX0JKW4zQjX5coT2QBpS6x4PxlqHnn5pzJiYrYeig I%2FrtPUp4mlPGJZ3KoIObXJL%2FaYd6T4EmT48dWLzI4nZXej SCARopWAdOuhUb6fvdqqh%2FzdRqWtN9rsBT9OrfuDPCBBKPJ0 l3bx7wqA0xC%2BJWqWO2DGv4Q55lskf9U5DRDC4RjYhruX3jBF XJwo3yfYYck1JynXsVNIJFjusnVDd2%2Bux2yg48A8ETTxdTtI RNBtROYxiAmjHyMSRXLINEUPrQh7s%2B5cKwv1glZXEJfHEyOh Me7KaoOSs464TrvOeGs7XF1hrsmYhypTphGR3SkwLyH34aLgQ5 cf65rbueCduyXpASWEs4E83wSroZyZWuNgv%2BAO%2FiDaP9Mp PU9offpUMrd5cdF6vJrfcyB8G2Sm4FEcqjU5oojEovxZmaTsRE ji7UOzcDwwrDNcso8e7g99km9Ufvg3IdOU9gIHzhnCiokooOqz 0gU%3D

There will be a new list to 31/12/2017 published in a month or so.Isn't there one with the latest Confirmation Statement? On the CD?

You know you want to.... [emoji16]

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[Drewster]

This was my understanding of the situation also

That understanding was given to me by someone I expect is fully informed as to the situation.

I understand that HSL are entitled to a seat on the board when they reach a 20% share holding.

[Firestarter]

It's totally different circumstances - their support had to put their money in to save their club from going out of existence after it's decades of 'Other People's Money' !. Our club - properly, professionally and honestly run - isn't under any threat, there's not the same vital urgency.

Their club isn't dying now yet the completely dwarf is in numbers of gifting to the football club, that cannot be used as an excuse and that kind of feeling will see us well behind them financially in the mid to long term future.

[hibbyfraelibby]

I understand that HSL are entitled to a seat on the board when they reach a 20% share holding.

Leeann is on both...

[Firestarter]

Only because it was/is to keep them afloat. Look at Hands Off Hibs, if we ever needed it we’d easily make the money to help the club.

It was the primary reason they signed up but they could stop at any time but don't. They are still heavily investing in their club while we keep making excuses why not to.

[HibbyAl]

They already own 20%

How do you know it wont?

Are you prepared to take that chance / hand them that advantage?

Even if half them chuck it, the extra income the other half pay would pay for a Jason Cummings type signing every year.

So in other words you have no idea whether they will continue to contribute once they don't need to, ie once stand paid for and Budge paid back.

[BSEJVT]

So in other words you have no idea whether they will continue to contribute once they don't need to, ie once stand paid for and Budge paid back.

And in other words neither do you.

Short of canvassing them individually and hoping they tell the truth / follow through on their intentions no-one does.

And your point is?

Still if you would rather wait until it was too late and then complain about the unfairness of it all, crack on.

Personally I hope we turn HSL into a huge success and raise more than they do at their peak.

If they fall away so much the better

[Thecat23]

It was the primary reason they signed up but they could stop at any time but don't. They are still heavily investing in their club while we keep making excuses why not to.

If they stopped Hearts would struggle to function even now. They depend on that money for the running of the club.

[Firestarter]

If they stopped Hearts would struggle to function even now. They depend on that money for the running of the club.

I hugely doubt it. Probably not the new stand but they aren't reliant on money from that group putting money in.

Can you see them stopping pledging or whatever you want to call it any time soon? Personally I can't and there will always be excuses as to why the continue to do and we continue not to and that's where a massive gap will grow and to be honest, if it does then we will only have ourselves to blame as the warning signs are there.

[HibbyAl]

And in other words neither do you.

Short of canvassing them individually and hoping they tell the truth / follow through on their intentions no-one does.

And your point is?

Still if you would rather wait until it was too late and then complain about the unfairness of it all, crack on.

Personally I hope we turn HSL into a huge success and raise more than they do at their peak.

If they fall away so much the better

My point is you're worrying about something that might not even happen. And it'll be at least 2 years before they have paid the stand and Budge off (probably longer).

[Firestarter]

So in other words you have no idea whether they will continue to contribute once they don't need to, ie once stand paid for and Budge paid back.

They could stop now when they "had to to save their club" before but they don't. They could have stopped last year or the year before where plans came into place for their stand and the group they put their money into changed the goalposts and gave it years longer to take control of the club, they didn't.

Clutching at straws to say they will stop, why would they?

[HibbyAl]

I hugely doubt it. Probably not the new stand but they aren't reliant on money from that group putting money in.

Can you see them stopping pledging or whatever you want to call it any time soon? Personally I can't and there will always be excuses as to why the continue to do and we continue not to and that's where a massive gap will grow and to be honest, if it does then we will only have ourselves to blame as the warning signs are there.

So you think they would be able to pay off the stand and Budge no problem without that extra money coming in?

[Jack Hackett]

The cup game is absolutely huge for them psychologically and financially. Finish their season in 3 weeks time, and the merde will hit the fan.

[Firestarter]

My point is you're worrying about something that might not even happen. And it'll be at least 2 years before they have paid the stand and Budge off (probably longer).

If they continue to pledge money to their club and we continue to sit and make excuses a massive gap will appear. It's that simple.

[Thecat23]

I hugely doubt it. Probably not the new stand but they aren't reliant on money from that group putting money in.

Can you see them stopping pledging or whatever you want to call it any time soon? Personally I can't and there will always be excuses as to why the continue to do and we continue not to and that's where a massive gap will grow and to be honest, if it does then we will only have ourselves to blame as the warning signs are there.

I’ve honestly no idea what will happen. I do think a lot will stop though but they will still have a lot that will. Remember we are in a better place than them on and off the pitch.

[HibbyAl]

They could stop now when they "had to to save their club" before but they don't. They could have stopped last year or the year before where plans came into place for their stand and the group they put their money into changed the goalposts and gave it years longer to take control of the club, they didn't.

Clutching at straws to say they will stop, why would they?

They still need to pay for the stand then they need to pay Budge off. After that I'm sure some will continue but I'm sure some will be happy to stop after paying extra over several years.

[Firestarter]

So you think they would be able to pay off the stand and Budge no problem without that extra money coming in?

Part of the agreement of proceeding with the stand was the continuous payments otherwise the stand wouldn't have went ahead.

If the payments stopped their owner ie budge would have to bridge any gap. I don't believe they are reliant on the pledges though even if they where it's because they are funding a new stand, future years to come it will go into the football clubs playing side while we are still making excuses why we arent doing similar.

[greenginger]

Isn't there one with the latest Confirmation Statement? On the CD?

You know you want to.... [emoji16]

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The recent statements are statements of capital, latest being 94,980,000 shares issued with an aggregate nominal capital of £1,899,600 .This years confirmation statement is actually due by 14 January.

Its the Yams who put their shareholders on a CD, only big clubs do that don't ya know. :greengrin

[BSEJVT]

My point is you're worrying about something that might not even happen. And it'll be at least 2 years before they have paid the stand and Budge off (probably longer).

My counter point would be that you are in denial or at best guilty of hoping blindly for the best and will choose to act (if at all) after its too late IMO.

What is there not to like about folk, who can afford it and want to, putting small amounts of money into the club.

Lets ignore for a moment FOH and Hearts completely, why would folk not want to do it to give their team a chance to do better, sign better players, win more games, win trophies, get into Europe.

But, I am quite prepared to put my money where my mouth is. Over those 2 years you talk about I will contribute £500 to HSL

Bet me a £100 donation to HSL that FOH will be pumping less than £500k per annum into Hearts by the end of that period.

That would still be roughly 4 times what we do, that's as much as we reportedly got for Cummings and there is my issue in a nutshell.

Money talks.

I really don't see what your problem is?

If you don't agree with HSL or don't want to contribute fine, but why folk like you find the need to take issue with folk trying to help the club escapes me.

If it bothered me that much I would just put the poster on ignore.

Probably enough on this part of the HSL debate.

In all honesty no-one can know until after the event, it will all become clear in the fullness of time.

[HibbyAl]

Part of the agreement of proceeding with the stand was the continuous payments otherwise the stand wouldn't have went ahead.

If the payments stopped their owner ie budge would have to bridge any gap. I don't believe they are reliant on the pledges though even if they where it's because they are funding a new stand, future years to come it will go into the football clubs playing side while we are still making excuses why we arent doing similar.

Of course they are reliant on the pledges. You've said yourself that was part of the agreement for proceeding with their stand.

And as I said once they are no longer reliant on the pledges a lot will stop (but I'm sure some will continue too). It will be years away before they get to that position tho.

Why is it people who don't want to put into HSL are being seen as making excuses? If folk don't want to contribute they don't want to contribute.

[HibbyAl]

My counter point would be that you are in denial or at best guilty of hoping blindly for the best and will choose to act (if at all) after its too late IMO.

What is there not to like about folk, who can afford it and want to, putting small amounts of money into the club.

Lets ignore for a moment FOH and Hearts completely, why would folk not want to do it to give their team a chance to do better, sign better players, win more games, win trophies, get into Europe.

But, I am quite prepared to put my money where my mouth is. Over those 2 years you talk about I will contribute £500 to HSL

Bet me a £100 donation to HSL that FOH will be pumping less than £500k per annum into Hearts by the end of that period.

That would still be roughly 4 times what we do, that's as much as we reportedly got for Cummings and there is my issue in a nutshell.

Money talks.

I really don't see what your problem is?

If you don't agree with HSL or don't want to contribute fine, but why folk like you find the need to take issue with folk trying to help the club escapes me.

If it bothered me that much I would just put the poster on ignore.

Probably enough on this part of the HSL debate.

In all honesty no-one can know until after the event, it will all become clear in the fullness of time.

I don't have a problem with HSL. If folk want to contribute that's their choice.

Likewise if folk don't want to contribute that's their choice.

It's the comments about people making excuses if they don't join HSL. Why do people need to make excuses. It's their decision what they do with their money, not yours.

[Eyrie]

Of course they are reliant on the pledges. You've said yourself that was part of the agreement for proceeding with their stand.

And as I said once they are no longer reliant on the pledges a lot will stop (but I'm sure some will continue too). It will be years away before they get to that position tho.
If they've been paying £10 or £20 a month for several years then they will be in the habit of donating that money and won't need it for themselves, so they'll just leave the DD in place. Some may talk about cancelling but only a few will actually make the effort to do so.

[BSEJVT]

I don't have a problem with HSL. If folk want to contribute that's their choice.

Likewise if folk don't want to contribute that's their choice.

It's the comments about people making excuses if they don't join HSL. Why do people need to make excuses. It's their decision what they do with their money, not yours.

Exactly it is so why make excuses

Why not just say not for me and leave it at that?

Its the type of argument that you have advanced on this thread that is the excuse or the self justification for not doing something and then being unable to justify that excuse.

The reasons given are entirely spurious.

Why not just not ignore something you have no interest in?

It's noticeable that you didn't take up my wager which might indicate that you don't believe your argument either?

[WhileTheChief..]

Folk on here complain about the price of a pie and cup of tea at ER - you really think thousands of us will give money away to the club?!!

It’s admirable that that you feel so strongly about it but unless our existence is threatened you’ll have a hard job.

I also don’t buy your argument that we will be at a massive disadvantage to Hearts. They’ve always had a higher turnover than ours, as have Aberdeen, by quite some distance.

It’s not all about the money though. If Hearts are paying higher wages to the likes of Lafferty they’ll never get far in front of us.

We just need to stay on our own course and trust our board to make the right decisions when it comes to contracts and transfers. We have had considerably more success than them over the years.

Remember also that a lot of us are not in favour of fan ownership for whatever reason. Not an excuse, but a widely held point of view which I’m sure you respect.

[HibbyAl]

Exactly it is so why make excuses

Why not just say not for me and leave it at that?

Its the type of argument that you have advanced on this thread that is the excuse or the self justification for not doing something and then being unable to justify that excuse.

The reasons given are entirely spurious.

Why not just not ignore something you have no interest in?

It's noticeable that you didn't take up my wager which might indicate that you don't believe your argument either?

I've not made any excuses and I don't need to.

Why do you accuse people of making excuses and expect them to justify themselves. You come across as very judgmental when in fact you don't know how much I (or others) contribute to Hibs.

[Jack]

Whether someone signed up to HSL or their one or any other clubs one there can be no doubt the contributions will continue forever for the vast majority of subscribers, or at least till they're dead.

It's the same apathy that sees millions not shift their utility companies, insurances or banks despite it costing them £100s a year!

BSEJVT is right. We either catch up with them now, or at least do a lot better than we're currently doing, or we let them take the advantage.

Yes, for many the amount they put into our club will already be a bit of a stretch. For others it won't be. It's the latter HSL will appeal to.

Our team have been doing their bit to starve them of funds by pumping them out the cup recently and their continued failure in the other cup likewise. We can't rely on this, they're bound to get lucky eventually ;-)

[HibbyAl]

Folk on here complain about the price of a pie and cup of tea at ER - you really think thousands of us will give money away to the club?!!

It’s admirable that that you feel so strongly about it but unless our existence is threatened you’ll have a hard job.

I also don’t buy your argument that we will be at a massive disadvantage to Hearts. They’ve always had a higher turnover than ours, as have Aberdeen, by quite some distance.

It’s not all about the money though. If Hearts are paying higher wages to the likes of Lafferty they’ll never get far in front of us.

We just need to stay on our own course and trust our board to make the right decisions when it comes to contracts and transfers. We have had considerably more success than them over the years.

Remember also that a lot of us are not in favour of fan ownership for whatever reason. Not an excuse, but a widely held point of view which I’m sure you respect.

And wasn't so long ago people were moaning about the price of a season ticket.

[Firestarter]

Folk on here complain about the price of a pie and cup of tea at ER - you really think thousands of us will give money away to the club?!!

It’s admirable that that you feel so strongly about it but unless our existence is threatened you’ll have a hard job.

I also don’t buy your argument that we will be at a massive disadvantage to Hearts. They’ve always had a higher turnover than ours, as have Aberdeen, by quite some distance.

It’s not all about the money though. If Hearts are paying higher wages to the likes of Lafferty they’ll never get far in front of us.

We just need to stay on our own course and trust our board to make the right decisions when it comes to contracts and transfers. We have had considerably more success than them over the years.

Remember also that a lot of us are not in favour of fan ownership for whatever reason. Not an excuse, but a widely held point of view which I’m sure you respect.

So you are quite happy for Hearts as a club to become financially much bigger than us because their fans want to help and ours don't? Sorry but that pisses me off.

[Firestarter]

And wasn't so long ago people were moaning about the price of a season ticket.

There's paying to see the football on show and there's consistently paying into the good of your football club to enhance everything. Why people would object to it is baffling.

[HibbyAl]

There's paying to see the football on show and there's consistently paying into the good of your football club to enhance everything. Why people would object to it is baffling.

I think it's more that people have their limit to how much they are willing to spend to go to the football. Hibs set the season ticket price and most folk see that as what they need to contribute.

[Alan62]

Personally, I think ongoing donations is an unsustainable business model. I also think there is something profoundly odd about it. Call me old fashioned but I expect to get something in return for my money. At least with the HSL model there is a sense that collectively, the patrons are acquiring influence and ownership within the club.


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[BSEJVT]

I've not made any excuses and I don't need to.

Why do you accuse people of making excuses and expect them to justify themselves. You come across as very judgmental when in fact you don't know how much I (or others) contribute to Hibs.

You bang on about how FOH donations wont last forever and then cant back that statement up and when offered the opportunity to put your money where your mouth is, have shied away from it.

I have also said folk don't need to make excuses, do it or don't do it, its that simple, but instead they proffer a variety of reasons as to why they don't need to, isn't that an excuse or at least them trying to justify something they don't need to in the first place?

I have said ad nauseum that folk should contribute only when they can afford to do so, so the statement about being very judgmental is also a patent nonsense.

Frankly I don't care how much you or others contribute to Hibs, we are all grown people and do whatever we can comfortably afford to do.

My only motivation in this entire thing is bringing HSL to more peoples attention and trying to highlight what I honestly believe is a looming problem.

Its becoming quite tiresome having to justify that position to folk as I really cant see why anyone would object to the club receiving more funding from people willing and able to provide it.

[Keith_M]

I thought this was a thread about Hearts' new stand?


Seems to have gone waaaay off topic.

[Gmack7]

Anyone know if the army of builders and assorted others were employed on the monstrosity over the holiday period or did it all come to a shuddering halt?

I am interested in the state of the pitch which was a tattie field when we played them on 27th, the cup tie is coming up. The weather forecast for the next couple of weeks is not encouraging, so I see another tattie field coming up.

Supreme irony, though,'Medals' Mackay urging purchase of a couple of creative midfielders to allow them to gain fourth place. Spat my tea out when I read that. It's more likely to be Clydesdale horses drawing a plough who will prosper on that surface.

Creative midfielders, oh ma sides.

I've a couple of mates sabotaging the project but they've been off since the 22nd and go back this Monday. I'm not sure if it's been a total shutdown or if some of the valiant workforce are turning up (for free)

[green&left]

FoH make HSL look like amateurs to be fair. There's a few things they could learn from the hertz model. They offer pretty good incentives. A discount card for some Edinburgh pubs, hotels, gyms, restaurants etc. The FoH pledgers strip. Limited edition scarf's and pin badges. A chance to have you're name engraved in Tynie, a chance to have lunch with the management team. On top of that they're very active online and on social media. HSL on the other hand have made one 45 second video clip featuring a Proclaimer stating they want to raise quarter of a million. HSL could do with a re-brand and re-launch especially after the loyalty points fiasco, the "ponzi scheme" accusations and having Leeann on both HSL and Hibernian FC's board.

[Brummie_Hibs]

FoH make HSL look like amateurs to be fair. There's a few things they could learn from the hertz model. They offer pretty good incentives. A discount card for some Edinburgh pubs, hotels, gyms, restaurants etc. The FoH pledgers strip. Limited edition scarf's and pin badges. A chance to have you're name engraved in Tynie, a chance to have lunch with the management team. On top of that they're very active online and on social media. HSL on the other hand have made one 45 second video clip featuring a Proclaimer stating they want to raise quarter of a million. HSL could do with a re-brand and re-launch especially after the loyalty points fiasco, the "ponzi scheme" accusations and have Leeann on both HSL and Hibernian FC's board.

:top marks

[greenginger]

I've a couple of mates sabotaging the project but they've been off since the 22nd and go back this Monday. I'm not sure if it's been a total shutdown or if some of the valiant workforce are turning up (for free)


I passed down Mcleod Street yesterday and there were 3 ADT Fire and Security Services vans parked outside.

Snagging in progress :confused:

[Hibby Kay-Yay]

I thought this was a thread about Hearts' new stand?


Seems to have gone waaaay off topic.

This

[hibbyfraelibby]

I passed down Mcleod Street yesterday and there were 3 ADT Fire and Security Services vans parked outside.

Snagging in progress :confused:

Its not snagging when its a first fix😉

[MrSmith]

I passed down Mcleod Street yesterday and there were 3 ADT Fire and Security Services vans parked outside.

Snagging in progress :confused:

nah it will be fitting of essential safety, security and alarm systems.

[Bostonhibby]

I've a couple of mates sabotaging the project but they've been off since the 22nd and go back this Monday. I'm not sure if it's been a total shutdown or if some of the valiant workforce are turning up (for free)This got me thinking, what's happened to the usual stories about burying strips and other memorabilia?

All I've heard about is 1/1/1973 0-7 being scribed on the underside of the tin flooring of the stand.

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[BSEJVT]

I thought this was a thread about Hearts' new stand?


Seems to have gone waaaay off topic.

Apologies,

I will bow out on this thread now

[offshorehibby]

FoH make HSL look like amateurs to be fair. There's a few things they could learn from the hertz model. They offer pretty good incentives. A discount card for some Edinburgh pubs, hotels, gyms, restaurants etc. The FoH pledgers strip. Limited edition scarf's and pin badges. A chance to have you're name engraved in Tynie, a chance to have lunch with the management team. On top of that they're very active online and on social media. HSL on the other hand have made one 45 second video clip featuring a Proclaimer stating they want to raise quarter of a million. HSL could do with a re-brand and re-launch especially after the loyalty points fiasco, the "ponzi scheme" accusations and having Leeann on both HSL and Hibernian FC's board.

There was talk last year about a major relaunch of HSL but heard nothing since. If OfficalHSL is looking in on this thread they could maybe comment.

[Ozyhibby]

There was talk last year about a major relaunch of HSL but heard nothing since. If OfficalHSL is looking in on this thread they could maybe comment.

They said the relaunch will be in 2018.


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[offshorehibby]

They said the relaunch will be in 2018.


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Cheers, just my impatience, i've been waiting for the HSL revamp.

[lord bunberry]

FoH make HSL look like amateurs to be fair. There's a few things they could learn from the hertz model. They offer pretty good incentives. A discount card for some Edinburgh pubs, hotels, gyms, restaurants etc. The FoH pledgers strip. Limited edition scarf's and pin badges. A chance to have you're name engraved in Tynie, a chance to have lunch with the management team. On top of that they're very active online and on social media. HSL on the other hand have made one 45 second video clip featuring a Proclaimer stating they want to raise quarter of a million. HSL could do with a re-brand and re-launch especially after the loyalty points fiasco, the "ponzi scheme" accusations and having Leeann on both HSL and Hibernian FC's board.
HSL probably need to have someone who is working for them full time to promote it. I know it would mean less money going to the club initially, but hopefully it would lead more subscribers in the long term.

[Sioux]

How does this work? Stolen from sickback

"2,501 seats left. - 290 sold since yesterday morning."


19991

They've sold 11,191 but only 2,500 left + Hibs tickets say 3,600. Capacity around 17,300? The tip's getting smaller.

Click on pic to enlarge.

[hibbyfraelibby]

How does this work? Stolen from sickback

"2,501 seats left. - 290 sold since yesterday morning."


19991

They've sold 11,191 but only 2,500 left + Hibs tickets say 3,600. Capacity around 17,300? The tip's getting smaller.

Click on pic to enlarge.

They dont do a real dot count they make up capacities for each stand stick them in a spreadsheet then convince themselves there have been sales but never admit the real capacity is 19514.

[Sioux]

But according to their/these figures it's nowhere near 19,514. There's 2000 seats missing :faf:

[greenginger]

How does this work? Stolen from sickback

"2,501 seats left. - 290 sold since yesterday morning."


19991

They've sold 11,191 but only 2,500 left + Hibs tickets say 3,600. Capacity around 17,300? The tip's getting smaller.

Click on pic to enlarge.


A few queries right enough.

Sections A-G is the Wheatfield Stand and has tickets available as 5770 ( there are supposed to be 5918 in that stand, difference the tunnel )

Section V-Z is the Gorgie and has 2914 tickets ( its meant to hold 3340, maybe hospitality seats sold somewhere else ? ? )

Section N in the new stand is the section nearest the Roseburn and only has 500 tickets. The dot plan for the stand shows 1140 seats in that section. Maybe police orders to reduce the stand capacity until they get the exits fixed. ???

[Sioux]

A few queries right enough.

Sections A-G is the Wheatfield Stand and has tickets available as 5770 ( there are supposed to be 5918 in that stand, difference the tunnel )

Section V-Z is the Gorgie and has 2914 tickets ( its meant to hold 3340, maybe hospitality seats sold somewhere else ? ? )

Section N in the new stand is the section nearest the Roseburn and only has 500 tickets. The dot plan for the stand shows 1140 seats in that section. Maybe police orders to reduce the stand capacity until they get the exits fixed. ???

Strange. But it does as you say throw up a few questions.

[hibbyfraelibby]

Section N in the new stand is the section nearest the Roseburn and only has 500 tickets. The dot plan for the stand shows 1140 seats in that section. Maybe police orders to reduce the stand capacity until they get the exits fixed. ???

Is Section N not where their standing baby bigots gather? I think they have a vehicle access tunnel in that corner which cost them capacity in the new stand that was originally unplanned as they forgot about cutting the grass...

[Eyrie]

But according to their/these figures it's nowhere near 19,514. There's 2000 seats missing :faf:

I think you mean 2002 seats missing :wink:

[greenginger]

Is Section N not where their standing baby bigots gather? I think they have a vehicle access tunnel in that corner which cost them capacity in the new stand that was originally unplanned as they forgot about cutting the grass...


This is section N


https://www.eticketing.co.uk/heartofmidlothian/EDP/Event/Index/963

1140 seats or thereabouts even allowing for the tractor tunnel.

Why is only 500 available . :confused:

[hibbysam]

This is section N


https://www.eticketing.co.uk/heartofmidlothian/EDP/Event/Index/963

1140 seats or thereabouts even allowing for the tractor tunnel.

Why is only 500 available . :confused:

Potentially bit the bullet and decided to put the TV studio there?

[Leith's finest]

Just left wardens club, it looks like there is a jumble sale in the new stand, ***** you not if anybody has a reason to past the stand have a look and take a photo, it must be getting ready for Monday morning, my battery was flat on my phone reason i never took one

[Famous Fiver]

What are they selling?

Players?
Seats?
Cherrypickers?
Owls?
Cash Cows?
Phantom shares?

Answers on a postcard please.

[Greentinted]

What are they selling?

Players?
Seats?
Cherrypickers?
Owls?
Cash Cows?
Phantom shares?



Answers on a postcard please.

Cakes and pastries surely? They do love a wee fundraising bake sale over-by.

[Leith's finest]

What are they selling?

Players?
Seats?
Cherrypickers?
Owls?
Cash Cows?
Phantom shares?

Answers on a postcard please.
2nd hand clothes by the look of it, not even got curtains to hide from window, maybe nade has put on a bit weight and donated his old clobber

[Jack Hackett]

Cakes and pastries surely? They do love a wee fundraising bake sale over-by.

It's a new yam historic tradition... started 5 years ago

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180116/102541a99ece174e0b8cb5c388fda3a2.jpg
TV box going in the Yams end this time. Maybe struggling to sell tickets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Firestarter]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180116/102541a99ece174e0b8cb5c388fda3a2.jpg
TV box going in the Yams end this time. Maybe struggling to sell tickets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

They must be. I thought it was going to be sorted during the winter break? What a shambles. Imagine paying for a season ticket and not getting to sit where you want or who your usual group is for their end of season sash bash on Sunday.

[wazoo1875]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180116/102541a99ece174e0b8cb5c388fda3a2.jpg
TV box going in the Yams end this time. Maybe struggling to sell tickets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What could possibly go wrong there!! All those little fannies with their union flags sitting next to the budgie 🧐

[Col2]

They still have a few hundred left to sell. Surprised as we would have sold out weeks ago if it was out Scottish Cup derby.

[Hibee87]

They must be. I thought it was going to be sorted during the winter break? What a shambles. Imagine paying for a season ticket and not getting to sit where you want or who your usual group is for their end of season sash bash on Sunday.

Its a cup game so they have to purchase a ticket anyway. Obvs they should be able to get their own seat but from a yam maye yesterday he seems to think they have sold 10k tickets. Which i very much doubt

[Firestarter]

What could possibly go wrong there!! All those little fannies with their union flags sitting next to the budgie 🧐

Never thought of that 😂😂😂😂

[Mikey]

Budgie knows the away end will sell out and the home end won't. The TV studio is better going somewhere that there's space for it.

[Firestarter]

Its a cup game so they have to purchase a ticket anyway. Obvs they should be able to get their own seat but from a yam maye yesterday he seems to think they have sold 10k tickets. Which i very much doubt

Cup game against them, I purchase my own ticket to sit beside the group I always sit around, people you sit around usually come through luck of the draw but you want to sit in your own bit and go radge with them anyway.!i changed once when JC scored in the replay and it wasn't that he same but took my boy. There will be a few 100 bigots raging at this and just wait until they walk up sozzled to the Queen Anne section 😂

[Firestarter]

Budgie knows the away end will sell out and the home end won't. The TV studio is better going somewhere that there's space for it.

Because we are due a percentage of the crowd they would have no alternative to give us no restricted tickets for the cup game Mikey.

[Hibee87]

Cup game against them, I purchase my own ticket to sit beside the group I always sit around, people you sit around usually come through luck of the draw but you want to sit in your own bit and go radge with them anyway.!i changed once when JC scored in the replay and it wasn't that he same but took my boy. There will be a few 100 bigots raging at this and just wait until they walk up sozzled to the Queen Anne section 😂

Wait u til we end their season again and the section N mutants are in with budge and co 😂

[Joe6-2]

What are they selling?

Players?
Seats?
Cherrypickers?
Owls?
Cash Cows?
Phantom shares?

Answers on a postcard please.

Grass, oh wait

[Greenfly]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20180116/102541a99ece174e0b8cb5c388fda3a2.jpg
TV box going in the Yams end this time. Maybe struggling to sell tickets.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



The e-mail reply options clearly aren't inviting any criticism - Kim Jong Un could learn a thing or two there.

[iwasthere1972]

The e-mail reply options clearly aren't inviting any criticism - Kim Jong Un could learn a thing or two there.

Premium section. They really are a load of roasters. There's nothing premium about Tynecastle except their prices. Upper and lower tiers as well. A way of fleecing another couple of quid out of thousands of fans.