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Stairway 2 7
12-05-2025, 07:19 PM
Not so much in scotland though? Maybe pollokshields in Glasgow but can’t think of anywhere else in Scotland?

We don’t have any of the immigration problems that England has

81% of England is white 93% of Scotland. There's only a couple of local authorities in Scotland where the white population is under 90% there are dozens in England where the white population is under 45%, London is around 50%. We just don't have the same immigration as England although that might change net migration was huge in Scotland last year 61k

As Oz says we need either immigration or increased fertility due to demographics, the government aren't interested in either

Bishop Hibee
12-05-2025, 08:04 PM
I've often wondered whether a more imaginative approach to immigration might be worth exploring.

Some areas of the UK (Scotland being one) need more people, while others feel the pressure of having too many people. The latter tend to be areas of already high population, to where immigrants will be drawn due to better prospects of jobs, schools, health support and community support.

Is there mileage in issuing visas with conditions, such as what part of the UK an immigrant can live or work? That might help redistribute the population in a more efficient and manageable way.

If you mean Edinburgh has ‘too many people’ then it hasn’t made much of a difference to the care sector in my experience. You could get a job working in the housing area of the care organisation I work for tomorrow if you wanted.

CropleyWasGod
13-05-2025, 08:47 AM
If you mean Edinburgh has ‘too many people’ then it hasn’t made much of a difference to the care sector in my experience. You could get a job working in the housing area of the care organisation I work for tomorrow if you wanted.

I don't :greengrin

Bishop Hibee
13-05-2025, 09:57 AM
I don't :greengrin

Haha neither do I but needs must!

Moulin Yarns
13-05-2025, 09:37 PM
I notice that the starmer poodles are missing since he declared war on immigrants.

Stairway 2 7
14-05-2025, 07:00 AM
I notice that the starmer poodles are missing since he declared war on immigrants.

Unfortunately it's went down well. Yougov poll on it says they agree with his island of strangers mice. 53% agree with it 27% disagree. 51% agree 27% disagree in Scotland
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2025/05/13/b638b/2?utm_source=daily_question&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=daily%2F2025%2F05%2F13_question_2


I think sadly people who are surprised by these numbers are living in a liberal vacuum on places like here and blue-sky. There is a very disenfranchised working class, no homes, crap jobs and post pandemic economic pain. The media and Farage make it easy for them to view the problem from being from immigration. The sitting parties need to take blame too. We didn't upscale our schools, NHS and housing in line with the incredible amount of immigration we had.

Bostonhibby
14-05-2025, 07:50 AM
I notice that the starmer poodles are missing since he declared war on immigrants.This former starmer backer who recognises the value of, and need for the right immigration for the sake of our economy (amongst other things) had lost faith in him before then.

But, being more of an Alsatian than a poodle I know you can't mean me[emoji6]

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Ozyhibby
14-05-2025, 08:39 AM
Unfortunately it's went down well. Yougov poll on it says they agree with his island of strangers mice. 53% agree with it 27% disagree. 51% agree 27% disagree in Scotland
https://yougov.co.uk/topics/politics/survey-results/daily/2025/05/13/b638b/2?utm_source=daily_question&utm_medium=twitter&utm_campaign=daily%2F2025%2F05%2F13_question_2


I think sadly people who are surprised by these numbers are living in a liberal vacuum on places like here and blue-sky. There is a very disenfranchised working class, no homes, crap jobs and post pandemic economic pain. The media and Farage make it easy for them to view the problem from being from immigration. The sitting parties need to take blame too. We didn't upscale our schools, NHS and housing in line with the incredible amount of immigration we had.

There is no doubt that while housing remains in shortage and people can’t afford their own home then there will be no appetite for bringing in more people.
It’s just deferring problems though if we don’t sort out our demographics.


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Moulin Yarns
14-05-2025, 08:45 AM
There is no doubt that while housing remains in shortage and people can’t afford their own home then there will be no appetite for bringing in more people.
It’s just deferring problems though if we don’t sort out our demographics.


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What about the skilled tradesmen from eastern Europe?😉

grunt
16-05-2025, 06:10 AM
C4News: "The Prime Minister Keir Starmer, unusually, chose to take only one broadcaster, GB News" on trip to Albania to discuss immigration.

Ok.

Jack
16-05-2025, 06:27 AM
C4News: "The Prime Minister Keir Starmer, unusually, chose to take only one broadcaster, GB News" on trip to Albania to discuss immigration.

Ok.

Maybe hoping the Albanians would detain them.

Ozyhibby
16-05-2025, 06:28 AM
C4News: "The Prime Minister Keir Starmer, unusually, chose to take only one broadcaster, GB News" on trip to Albania to discuss immigration.

Ok.

This is Starmers Rwanda scheme.


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Smartie
16-05-2025, 06:30 AM
C4News: "The Prime Minister Keir Starmer, unusually, chose to take only one broadcaster, GB News" on trip to Albania to discuss immigration.

Ok.

Is it just me… or is there a whiff of the influence MAGA about all of this?

I’m not a fan of Starmer or Labour but this seems quite a departure from normal practice from them.

It’s a bit fishy. Do I need to make myself a tin foil hat?

jamie_1875
16-05-2025, 06:57 AM
Highest economic growth in the G7 announced yesterday, higher than France and Germany etc. That's a start isn't it? (awaiting the no it's rubbish and should have been double)

Ozyhibby
16-05-2025, 08:49 AM
Highest economic growth in the G7 announced yesterday, higher than France and Germany etc. That's a start isn't it? (awaiting the no it's rubbish and should have been double)

Pretty sure we have the lowest standard of living in the G7 so a lot of catching up to do. I’m sure everyone is feeling Labour are changing that though?


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Kato
16-05-2025, 08:50 AM
Highest economic growth in the G7 announced yesterday, higher than France and Germany etc. That's a start isn't it? (awaiting the no it's rubbish and should have been double)Hooray. A line has gone up. Will have zero impact on the vast majority of people.

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grunt
16-05-2025, 09:09 AM
Highest economic growth in the G7 announced yesterday, higher than France and Germany etc. That's a start isn't it? (awaiting the no it's rubbish and should have been double)
Trump. All down to Trump. A huge unexpected increase in aluminium exports to the US ahead of Trump tariffs kicking in. Nothing to do with Labour or Starmer.

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:tqlxuvuwac6clygtjgkm6mh7/bafkreid57252teucaowfibyhpibwmiwrrdypbyotpziwpm3ni 537ha2iti@jpeg

grunt
16-05-2025, 10:01 AM
https://bsky.app/profile/brexitbin.bsky.social/post/3lpbr5ryv7k24


Just remember: Starmer could have used his speech on immigration to explain to people how Brexit has made immigration explode, and that that's why we need to rejoin the Single Market with Freedom of Movement. But he chose instead to follow Farage down his xenophobic rabbit hole.

He's been such a disappointment.

Andy Bee
16-05-2025, 10:08 AM
Highest economic growth in the G7 announced yesterday, higher than France and Germany etc. That's a start isn't it? (awaiting the no it's rubbish and should have been double)

0.7% growth with projected growth set to fall, of course people will say it's rubbish because it is rubbish. NI hikes, energy hikes and tax hikes aren't factored into this period they're coming in the next quarter with a recession still not being ruled out this year. Starmer falls 39% in favourability ratings amongst his own members, it's all going swimmingly for Labour. The problem we've got now is Reform is going to hoover up more seats than Labour in the Scottish elections because of it, cannae wait.

Ozyhibby
16-05-2025, 10:32 AM
https://bsky.app/profile/yougov.co.uk/post/3lpbk6a32b22u

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250516/762a29f88adafcfefd590c6f6704bb02.png

It’s all going great.[emoji106]


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cabbageandribs1875
16-05-2025, 11:33 AM
he's shed the Tory Lite clothes, now it's Reform Lite

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/497264491_9565440600233621_2288691849260502616_n.j pg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=zaZrgrrZ6iQQ7kNvwEV8VO6&_nc_oc=Adm_JHCCho88As-O6KFFP8BoLIHiuBncBWKsPhVtMwUqYK8hrQhnjQDMEiCjwr2PG X4&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=42eSdE2GGp4yx7e1sOfkIw&oh=00_AfJAsG8XRnM5LAB69seBTdpo0JI5WbM1fK0Hx-7bStpdgA&oe=682D042D

cabbageandribs1875
16-05-2025, 08:01 PM
The result was described by one expert as "completely and utterly disastrous" for Labour.

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/497550119_1113655287463148_9187375319817624671_n.j pg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=RhqtgtvyAkIQ7kNvwGJudmW&_nc_oc=AdmYTP_hoLHqB7iric5rW3k8HRxiyA28amZY03GwLwS H95x81fGEiR-2A6PiJw_IbpI&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=ayl6anqGFkYqHP1nJSI_jg&oh=00_AfJv9t5X3QAQ3d5MjFRrQ2xM-kfSG_9De9hiJPkI7BDtKQ&oe=682D6361

two raging Liars

Stairway 2 7
16-05-2025, 08:21 PM
The result was described by one expert as "completely and utterly disastrous" for Labour.

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/497550119_1113655287463148_9187375319817624671_n.j pg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=RhqtgtvyAkIQ7kNvwGJudmW&_nc_oc=AdmYTP_hoLHqB7iric5rW3k8HRxiyA28amZY03GwLwS H95x81fGEiR-2A6PiJw_IbpI&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=ayl6anqGFkYqHP1nJSI_jg&oh=00_AfJv9t5X3QAQ3d5MjFRrQ2xM-kfSG_9De9hiJPkI7BDtKQ&oe=682D6361

two raging Liars

I hate they Starmerites but there is nothing to be happy about reform taking a huge chunk out of the snp and labour vote. I despise them and want them to fail, regardless of that effecting snp's chances

Hibs4185
17-05-2025, 08:38 AM
I hate they Starmerites but there is nothing to be happy about reform taking a huge chunk out of the snp and labour vote. I despise them and want them to fail, regardless of that effecting snp's chances

I really don’t think reform will steal any votes from the SNP.

You either vote SNP because you support independence. That voter def isn’t jumping to reform. You vote SNP because you agree with their centre left policies, you def aren’t voting reform.

It’s a pretty big jump for any SNP voter to vote reform. You might get a few anti-EU SNP conservative minded voters but they’d be in the small percentages.

I think your Rangers fans and hardcore unionists will jump on the reform bandwagon however so might find reform being the new unionist party in scotland.

For every SNP voter who votes reform, I think you’ll get many Labour and Lib Dem’s voting SNP to keep reform out

Ozyhibby
17-05-2025, 08:40 AM
I really don’t think reform will steal any votes from the SNP.

You either vote SNP because you support independence. That voter def isn’t jumping to reform. You vote SNP because you agree with their centre left policies, you def aren’t voting reform.

It’s a pretty big jump for any SNP voter to vote reform. You might get a few anti-EU SNP conservative minded voters but they’d be in the small percentages.

The SNP problem will be in getting their voters to turn out.


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Smartie
17-05-2025, 09:01 AM
The SNP problem will be in getting their voters to turn out.


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Reform will probably have the odd “putting the jocks back in their box” statement and policy, which might reinvigorate SNP voters somewhat.

They’re less likely to do that at Scottish elections tbf, for obvious reasons.

Andy Bee
17-05-2025, 10:19 AM
There's 15% of voters who support Indy not voting SNP and there's another cohort who have lost faith in them and are now politically homeless, it's a no brainer how to get the voters out. Push Independence by not sitting in the list on seats they know they have absolutely no chance of winning. They don't have to advertise the fact of making way for other Indy parties, people will know what to do. Any more than 4 or 5 seats in the constituency vote in any region gets you nothing on the list and it's looking like letting Reform in.

cabbageandribs1875
17-05-2025, 09:32 PM
I hate they Starmerites but there is nothing to be happy about reform taking a huge chunk out of the snp and labour vote. I despise them and want them to fail, regardless of that effecting snp's chances

it's nauseating that Farage will be up campaigning in the Hamilton by-election


I really don’t think reform will steal any votes from the SNP.

You either vote SNP because you support independence. That voter def isn’t jumping to reform. You vote SNP because you agree with their centre left policies, you def aren’t voting reform.

It’s a pretty big jump for any SNP voter to vote reform. You might get a few anti-EU SNP conservative minded voters but they’d be in the small percentages.

I think your Rangers fans and hardcore unionists will jump on the reform bandwagon however so might find reform being the new unionist party in scotland.

For every SNP voter who votes reform, I think you’ll get many Labour and Lib Dem’s voting SNP to keep reform out

or, more people are now aware that starmer said he wants Scotland brought into line with England, i suspect that will mean prescription charges, huge increases in Council Tax, we've already had a taste of that in the love-in Blue and Red Tory council power sharing, i am absolutely positive BLiS want to privatise Scottish Water but don't worry it will start of with smallish charges, then soon rise sharply, they will also want to bring in tuition fees, we should all hope Mr Curtice is correct here

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/499375369_1274988964628897_6362889544787991021_n.j pg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=lueTRFRHHXUQ7kNvwG0l8QU&_nc_oc=AdlcPiLY19wCuJQvDEa005CrU2KSYrLxRi_yx6AduZr B6sSrXrpQG7EkI425nc2NkUs&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=iF64kMQMOGIKsyjDteE1ow&oh=00_AfKGqU-HSmeLbm8OAq-II3craPZydnOLeTUVq6kOiXYMcw&oe=682EC74D

Andy Bee
17-05-2025, 10:28 PM
it's nauseating that Farage will be up campaigning in the Hamilton by-election



or, more people are now aware that starmer said he wants Scotland brought into line with England, i suspect that will mean prescription charges, huge increases in Council Tax, we've already had a taste of that in the love-in Blue and Red Tory council power sharing, i am absolutely positive BLiS want to privatise Scottish Water but don't worry it will start of with smallish charges, then soon rise sharply, they will also want to bring in tuition fees, we should all hope Mr Curtice is correct here

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/499375369_1274988964628897_6362889544787991021_n.j pg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=lueTRFRHHXUQ7kNvwG0l8QU&_nc_oc=AdlcPiLY19wCuJQvDEa005CrU2KSYrLxRi_yx6AduZr B6sSrXrpQG7EkI425nc2NkUs&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=iF64kMQMOGIKsyjDteE1ow&oh=00_AfKGqU-HSmeLbm8OAq-II3craPZydnOLeTUVq6kOiXYMcw&oe=682EC74D

The Hamilton by election will be really interesting, if Reform come second again, will the MSM change the narrative from Labour and Tories losing votes to Reform to SNP v Reform for the 2026 election? If that happens Labour are done and we may well see tactical voting from some Labour supporters to SNP.

jamie_1875
18-05-2025, 04:32 AM
it's nauseating that Farage will be up campaigning in the Hamilton by-election



or, more people are now aware that starmer said he wants Scotland brought into line with England, i suspect that will mean prescription charges, huge increases in Council Tax, we've already had a taste of that in the love-in Blue and Red Tory council power sharing, i am absolutely positive BLiS want to privatise Scottish Water but don't worry it will start of with smallish charges, then soon rise sharply, they will also want to bring in tuition fees, we should all hope Mr Curtice is correct here

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/499375369_1274988964628897_6362889544787991021_n.j pg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=lueTRFRHHXUQ7kNvwG0l8QU&_nc_oc=AdlcPiLY19wCuJQvDEa005CrU2KSYrLxRi_yx6AduZr B6sSrXrpQG7EkI425nc2NkUs&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=iF64kMQMOGIKsyjDteE1ow&oh=00_AfKGqU-HSmeLbm8OAq-II3craPZydnOLeTUVq6kOiXYMcw&oe=682EC74D

He may well have said it but when exactly did Kier Starmer say he wanted Scotland "brought in line with England"?

I mean literally the opposite was said.

"Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar has said his party would maintain a range of benefits including free prescriptions and the Scottish Child Payment, if it wins the next election.

Speaking in the run-up to his party’s conference, which takes place in Glasgow later this month, Sarwar said Labour would keep in place a range of entitlements such as free university tuition and free bus passes. He called such policies the “successes of devolution"

JimBHibees
18-05-2025, 06:16 AM
C4News: "The Prime Minister Keir Starmer, unusually, chose to take only one broadcaster, GB News" on trip to Albania to discuss immigration.

Ok.

So pandering to an extreme right wing outlet. Where has the soul of the Labour Party gone?

grunt
18-05-2025, 08:47 AM
"Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar has said his party would maintain a range of benefits including free prescriptions and the Scottish Child Payment, if it wins the next election.
You're not seriously suggesting we should believe what Sarwar says before an election? :greengrin

Ozyhibby
18-05-2025, 08:49 AM
He may well have said it but when exactly did Kier Starmer say he wanted Scotland "brought in line with England"?

I mean literally the opposite was said.

"Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar has said his party would maintain a range of benefits including free prescriptions and the Scottish Child Payment, if it wins the next election.

Speaking in the run-up to his party’s conference, which takes place in Glasgow later this month, Sarwar said Labour would keep in place a range of entitlements such as free university tuition and free bus passes. He called such policies the “successes of devolution"

Remember when he said Labour would save Grangemouth?[emoji2369]
Shows the success of the SNP though that all Labour are offering is to keep their policies.


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jamie_1875
18-05-2025, 09:04 AM
Remember when he said Labour would save Grangemouth?[emoji2369]
Shows the success of the SNP though that all Labour are offering is to keep their policies.


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Yea everyone hates "free stuff" don't they 😂. Very popular policies tend to be the free things but of course nothing is free. The SNP using devolution as it should be, allowing Scotland to make different choices etc and being able to afford it. I agree he has a credibly issue and I suspect he won't be FM which means the issue of balancing the books passes back to the SNP. For example the benefits bill in Scotland is due to significantly increase.


"In 2025-26 social security makes up 14% of the Scottish Budget (SFC fig 2.10).
Total devolved social security spending is forecast to increase from £5,330 million in
2023-24 to £8,754 million in 2029-30"

Where is the extra billions coming from exactly? There comes a point where to keep funding free and popular policies other things need to be cut.

Moulin Yarns
18-05-2025, 09:55 AM
Yea everyone hates "free stuff" don't they 😂. Very popular policies tend to be the free things but of course nothing is free. The SNP using devolution as it should be, allowing Scotland to make different choices etc and being able to afford it. I agree he has a credibly issue and I suspect he won't be FM which means the issue of balancing the books passes back to the SNP. For example the benefits bill in Scotland is due to significantly increase.


"In 2025-26 social security makes up 14% of the Scottish Budget (SFC fig 2.10).
Total devolved social security spending is forecast to increase from £5,330 million in
2023-24 to £8,754 million in 2029-30"

Where is the extra billions coming from exactly? There comes a point where to keep funding free and popular policies other things need to be cut.

The only thing that needs cut is the rest of the UKs reliance on Scotland’s resources.

jamie_1875
18-05-2025, 10:22 AM
The only thing that needs cut is the rest of the UKs reliance on Scotland’s resources.

An answer to a question nobody asked?

So if Scotland was Independent you don't think it should be exporting to the rest of the UK? Or you do but you just don't like it happening today, why is that?

grunt
18-05-2025, 10:28 AM
"Scottish Labour leader Anas Sarwar has said his party would maintain a range of benefits including free prescriptions and the Scottish Child Payment, if it wins the next election.

Speaking in the run-up to his party’s conference, which takes place in Glasgow later this month, Sarwar said Labour would keep in place a range of entitlements such as free university tuition and free bus passes. He called such policies the “successes of devolution"


I agree he has a credibly issue and I suspect he won't be FM ...
So why quote him if you don't believe what he says?

jamie_1875
18-05-2025, 10:36 AM
So why quote him if you don't believe what he says?

I didn't say that did I? I believe when he said he would save Grangemouth he believed it and I believe he will keep all the freebies as well, nobody is going to run for election saying I am cutting all the free stuff are they? That would be stupid. You don't, that's fine we all have different opinions.

Ozyhibby
18-05-2025, 11:42 AM
I didn't say that did I? I believe when he said he would save Grangemouth he believed it and I believe he will keep all the freebies as well, nobody is going to run for election saying I am cutting all the free stuff are they? That would be stupid. You don't, that's fine we all have different opinions.

It’s not worth the risk for me. I have a kid at Uni just now and hopefully another going in 4 years time. I don’t want them to have to pay for it and start their lives in massive debt. Hard enough for young folk starting out as it is.


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Kato
18-05-2025, 11:52 AM
Social contract for which we pay taxes towards = "free stuff".

The Neoliberal version of the Labour Party showing its teeth.

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jamie_1875
18-05-2025, 11:55 AM
Social contract for which we pay taxes towards = "free stuff".

The Neoliberal version of the Labour Party showing its teeth.

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Lol, I literally said nothing is free. 😂 It's not paid for from the magic money tree.

Jack
18-05-2025, 03:09 PM
One of Labour's first actions coming to power at Westminster was to take £300 from most old age pensioners at a time when many were getting caught for the first time by the freezing of income tax bands and the knock on effect up the chain meaning they paid loads more in income tax. Most pensioners are on a fixed income with little opportunity to make up the shortfall.

I think anyone believing the liar Sarwar saying he'll keep all the Scottish 'benefits' is either deluded or aff their heids!

Bristolhibby
19-05-2025, 11:39 AM
Brilliant deal for the UK realigning with the EU.

Saw a great stat. If our total GDP was £1000. The fishing industry would account for 30p.

More access to markets. Removing red tape. Students right to study abroad. Access to defence funding. Ability to use e-gates when travelling.

All this and Brexit is still “done”.

J

Hibs4185
19-05-2025, 11:59 AM
Brilliant deal for the UK realigning with the EU.

Saw a great stat. If our total GDP was £1000. The fishing industry would account for 30p.

More access to markets. Removing red tape. Students right to study abroad. Access to defence funding. Ability to use e-gates when travelling.

All this and Brexit is still “done”.

J

Wish they do a deal on the 90 day rule. Europeans get 180 days here but we have to come and go for 90 and away for 90

Bristolhibby
19-05-2025, 12:13 PM
Wish they do a deal on the 90 day rule. Europeans get 180 days here but we have to come and go for 90 and away for 90

Baby steps. This is just day one of the reset of the toxic relationship with the EU. Can put to bed the ideologically driven rhetoric from the Tories and Reform.

We need big business to come out and support this. Grab the narrative!

J

Jack
19-05-2025, 12:36 PM
Brilliant deal for the UK realigning with the EU.

Saw a great stat. If our total GDP was £1000. The fishing industry would account for 30p.

More access to markets. Removing red tape. Students right to study abroad. Access to defence funding. Ability to use e-gates when travelling.

All this and Brexit is still “done”.

J

And what percentage of 'our' boats owned by foreigners?

Ozyhibby
19-05-2025, 01:42 PM
And what percentage of 'our' boats owned by foreigners?

I saw someone post that there are more people employed in the yoga industry than the fishing industry. Not sure if true but if so then you can see why it was sacrificed.


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Jack
19-05-2025, 02:08 PM
I saw someone post that there are more people employed in the yoga industry than the fishing industry. Not sure if true but if so then you can see why it was sacrificed.


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I'm not even sure it was sacrificed. I read it was a rollover of what was already in plaice 😉

Andy Bee
19-05-2025, 02:32 PM
I'm not even sure it was sacrificed. I read it was a rollover of what was already in plaice 😉

Yup, it was due to end in June 2026. You've got to laugh at this being touted as Starmers Brexit reset, this was a review that was always going to happen, Frost signed up to it years ago in the Brexit deal.

Bristolhibby
19-05-2025, 02:44 PM
Yup, it was due to end in June 2026. You've got to laugh at this being touted as Starmers Brexit reset, this was a review that was always going to happen, Frost signed up to it years ago in the Brexit deal.

But we are aligning more. Our food access to EU markets with reduced red tape is a win. Fish and shellfish included in that. ✅

Youngsters able to go to Europe and study. ✅

Closer defence alignment and the ability to bid for EU Defence contracts ✅

Regulatory alignment meaning our exports are easier to export. ✅

Pet passports being recognised. ✅

No stupid passport stamping with E Gates. ✅

And just having a better relationship with the EU. ✅

J

Andy Bee
19-05-2025, 03:10 PM
But we are aligning more. Our food access to EU markets with reduced red tape is a win. Fish and shellfish included in that. ✅

Youngsters able to go to Europe and study. ✅

Closer defence alignment and the ability to bid for EU Defence contracts ✅

Regulatory alignment meaning our exports are easier to export. ✅

Pet passports being recognised. ✅

No stupid passport stamping with E Gates. ✅

And just having a better relationship with the EU. ✅

J


Not knocking any of the gains at all bud, just knocking how it's all being reported, one side saying the fishermen were sold out and the other championing Starmer for his negotiating skills. In truth this review was signed up to as part of the TCA years ago. The fishermen were already sold out by gaining only 25% of their waters back in the Brexit deal, Starmer is just continuing that.

Ozyhibby
19-05-2025, 03:21 PM
It’s a step forward. A small one but forward all the same. [emoji106]
I think we’ll be having new deals every year like the Swiss do. The return to the EU will be a long gradual process which will prolong the pain for the die hard brexiteers.


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Bristolhibby
19-05-2025, 04:15 PM
Not knocking any of the gains at all bud, just knocking how it's all being reported, one side saying the fishermen were sold out and the other championing Starmer for his negotiating skills. In truth this review was signed up to as part of the TCA years ago. The fishermen were already sold out by gaining only 25% of their waters back in the Brexit deal, Starmer is just continuing that.

Oh the messaging is key. The fishing thing is crazy. They were sold out, rightly so when you consider what they bring to the economy and ironically considering how pro Brexit the fishermen were.

But it flows both ways one gain for the industry is that live shellfish will now be able to be exported to the EU. Thats a boon for fishermen and unlike net fishing it’s all U.K. based and delivering to the British and Scottish fishing economy.

I also read that the gig economy and touring bands will be allowed to tour again visa free. All good news tidying up the Tory Brexit disaster.

J

jamie_1875
19-05-2025, 05:34 PM
Good tweet.

https://x.com/UKLabour/status/1924511797408571721?t=9gy9DXfw-w7zxf3BUbvprA&s=19

Ozyhibby
19-05-2025, 05:54 PM
Good tweet.

https://x.com/UKLabour/status/1924511797408571721?t=9gy9DXfw-w7zxf3BUbvprA&s=19

Not accurate though, is it? Swinney not against the deal as such, just wanted more consultation.


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Kato
19-05-2025, 06:03 PM
Good tweet.

https://x.com/UKLabour/status/1924511797408571721?t=9gy9DXfw-w7zxf3BUbvprA&s=19Hehe. That's good and well done the Labour Party for this one.

(Apologies for the error above, Jamie. Was reading posts in the sun without specs)

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grunt
25-05-2025, 10:59 AM
Andrew Neil showing he was asleep for 14 years of Lying Tory government

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:nxb36xbu3fmz476orupk4p6q/bafkreiaes2amoailxakb3mp34l4mhmwsl3xhfx6jjmueue4v7 mejv3jidq@jpeg

Bostonhibby
25-05-2025, 11:10 AM
Andrew Neil showing he was asleep for 14 years of Lying Tory government

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:nxb36xbu3fmz476orupk4p6q/bafkreiaes2amoailxakb3mp34l4mhmwsl3xhfx6jjmueue4v7 mejv3jidq@jpegMaybe he was just partying?https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250525/da50f9781287f3b3785e48379d96026e.jpg

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MKHIBEE
25-05-2025, 02:31 PM
Andrew Neil showing he was asleep for 14 years of Lying Tory government

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:nxb36xbu3fmz476orupk4p6q/bafkreiaes2amoailxakb3mp34l4mhmwsl3xhfx6jjmueue4v7 mejv3jidq@jpeg
Was he on the moon during Johnson’s time?

McD
25-05-2025, 03:16 PM
Was he on the moon during Johnson’s time?


Nah, the wording of the quote is key. He didn’t ‘accuse’ any government of lying. He knew it was going on, just chose to keep his gob shut like most of the Tory media.


So he’s technically being truthful, but on very shaky ground regarding the whole truth

JimBHibees
25-05-2025, 07:44 PM
Andrew Neil showing he was asleep for 14 years of Lying Tory government

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:nxb36xbu3fmz476orupk4p6q/bafkreiaes2amoailxakb3mp34l4mhmwsl3xhfx6jjmueue4v7 mejv3jidq@jpeg

Absolutely complete charlatan

Ozyhibby
02-06-2025, 05:25 PM
https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,blow-to-scottish-labour-as-councillor-defects-to-reform-uk

Not as big a step these days.


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Jones28
03-06-2025, 08:52 AM
Andrew Neil showing he was asleep for 14 years of Lying Tory government

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_thumbnail/plain/did:plc:nxb36xbu3fmz476orupk4p6q/bafkreiaes2amoailxakb3mp34l4mhmwsl3xhfx6jjmueue4v7 mejv3jidq@jpeg

He is the original right wing shill, a trend setter.

What is he even accusing Starmer of lying about?

Moulin Yarns
03-06-2025, 11:54 AM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq69q36gpg8o

Sir Kier alienating half the population.

Andy Bee
04-06-2025, 08:47 PM
Quite surprised all the latest defence talk hasn't been mentioned here yet. Watched Starmers speech from the BAE Systems yard in Govan and was left fairly dumbstruck. I get defence is drastically needing investment, 22 operational tanks, an army that'd fit in Old Trafford and 33 planes for two aircraft carriers that can carry up to 80 planes each but the wording of the speech and the narrative of it being a race against time and an impending apocalypse nearly on our doorsteps isn't sitting well. Rhetoric like multiplying the lethal force of our army by x10, normal people being battle ready. TBH when Starmer was delivering it I couldn't get that video of him slapping a punchbag like a wee fanny out my head.

Also watched George Robertson on the "Strategic Defence Review" he's done work on, incidentally he worked on the previous "SDR" in 1998 in which he recommended 3 aircraft carriers, it took 20 years for two of them to arrive. Interestingly he's recommended an Iron Dome like system for the UK but has allocated £1bn of funding so that'll be for Central London only I'd imagine.

Is this a realistic state of affairs we're in at the moment or is it a desperate attempt from Starmer to kickstart growth by using weapons manufacturing, Military Kensianism I've heard it referred to as?

JimBHibees
05-06-2025, 06:15 AM
Quite surprised all the latest defence talk hasn't been mentioned here yet. Watched Starmers speech from the BAE Systems yard in Govan and was left fairly dumbstruck. I get defence is drastically needing investment, 22 operational tanks, an army that'd fit in Old Trafford and 33 planes for two aircraft carriers that can carry up to 80 planes each but the wording of the speech and the narrative of it being a race against time and an impending apocalypse nearly on our doorsteps isn't sitting well. Rhetoric like multiplying the lethal force of our army by x10, normal people being battle ready. TBH when Starmer was delivering it I couldn't get that video of him slapping a punchbag like a wee fanny out my head.

Also watched George Robertson on the "Strategic Defence Review" he's done work on, incidentally he worked on the previous "SDR" in 1998 in which he recommended 3 aircraft carriers, it took 20 years for two of them to arrive. Interestingly he's recommended an Iron Dome like system for the UK but has allocated £1bn of funding so that'll be for Central London only I'd imagine.

Is this a realistic state of affairs we're in at the moment or is it a desperate attempt from Starmer to kickstart growth by using weapons manufacturing, Military Kensianism I've heard it referred to as?

Share your cynicism

Pagan Hibernia
05-06-2025, 10:52 AM
One of Labour's first actions coming to power at Westminster was to take £300 from most old age pensioners at a time when many were getting caught for the first time by the freezing of income tax bands and the knock on effect up the chain meaning they paid loads more in income tax. Most pensioners are on a fixed income with little opportunity to make up the shortfall.

I think anyone believing the liar Sarwar saying he'll keep all the Scottish 'benefits' is either deluded or aff their heids!

This labour government makes Blair and Brown look like Marx and Engels

Stairway 2 7
05-06-2025, 02:25 PM
Pensioners are the most well off group by far. If it was framed instead of freezing Pensioners as giving Pensioners extra money for their cruise trip when a much much higher percentage of children are in poverty than Pensioners, letting the kids freeze. Notice ons released yesterday that excess deaths were down this winter in all age groups from last year so all ends that ends well

Ozyhibby
05-06-2025, 03:59 PM
Pensioners are the most well off group by far. If it was framed instead of freezing Pensioners as giving Pensioners extra money for their cruise trip when a much much higher percentage of children are in poverty than Pensioners, letting the kids freeze. Notice ons released yesterday that excess deaths were down this winter in all age groups from last year so all ends that ends well

They don’t like kids either though. Especially ones with two or more older siblings.


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Jack
05-06-2025, 04:12 PM
Pensioners are the most well off group by far. If it was framed instead of freezing Pensioners as giving Pensioners extra money for their cruise trip when a much much higher percentage of children are in poverty than Pensioners, letting the kids freeze. Notice ons released yesterday that excess deaths were down this winter in all age groups from last year so all ends that ends well

What drivel.

There's far more pensioners in relative poverty than go cruising. And besides losing the WFA many of the poorest pensioners have been sucked into the frozen tax allowances over the past few years. A pensioner paying a few hundred pounds tax 3 years ago is paying a few thousand pounds now. There's also little scope for pensioners to increase their income.

Hiber-nation
05-06-2025, 05:38 PM
What drivel.

There's far more pensioners in relative poverty than go cruising. And besides losing the WFA many of the poorest pensioners have been sucked into the frozen tax allowances over the past few years. A pensioner paying a few hundred pounds tax 3 years ago is paying a few thousand pounds now. There's also little scope for pensioners to increase their income.

Agree. I know a few folk who are really toiling. Generalising pensioners is just wrong.

MKHIBEE
05-06-2025, 05:58 PM
This labour government makes Blair and Brown look like Marx and Engels

This government makes Thatcher look like Marx

Kato
05-06-2025, 05:58 PM
This government makes Thatcher look like MarxHarpo?

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CropleyWasGod
05-06-2025, 07:13 PM
This government makes Thatcher look like Marx


Harpo?

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Richard

Stairway 2 7
05-06-2025, 07:31 PM
What drivel.

There's far more pensioners in relative poverty than go cruising. And besides losing the WFA many of the poorest pensioners have been sucked into the frozen tax allowances over the past few years. A pensioner paying a few hundred pounds tax 3 years ago is paying a few thousand pounds now. There's also little scope for pensioners to increase their income.

There's far more pensioners cruising than in poverty is as ridiculous as saying far more kids in poverty than play shinty. Over 60s are by far the least in poverty in the uk. So do you direct money to them or the under 18s who are the most in poverty.

I hate boomers that are so greedy. Want the cheap housing they got, nice pensions, bairns can starve, where to next darling hurah

Stairway 2 7
05-06-2025, 07:35 PM
Agree. I know a few folk who are really toiling. Generalising pensioners is just wrong.

Generalising is daft government's need more than that. Where is the money needed. It's horrendous 12% of pensioners are in poverty (97% still get WFA) and 33% of children. We should take the wfa away from those pensioners that aren't in poverty and give it to kids who are. Boomers will disagree

Moulin Yarns
05-06-2025, 09:01 PM
Generalising is daft government's need more than that. Where is the money needed. It's horrendous 12% of pensioners are in poverty (97% still get WFA) and 33% of children. We should take the wfa away from those pensioners that aren't in poverty and give it to kids who are. Boomers will disagree

Where do you get that figure about WFA? I'm an average income pensioner and I certainly didn't get it. If 97% of pensioners got the WFA then they were on low incomes and required pension credit.

You can't have it both ways.

grunt
05-06-2025, 09:48 PM
Where do you get that figure about WFA? I'm an average income pensioner and I certainly didn't get it. If 97% of pensioners got the WFA then they were on low incomes and required pension credit.

You can't have it both ways.It will be a typo.

Ozyhibby
06-06-2025, 04:06 AM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250606/5316250112f971c0c9c6311b7f9569d3.jpg


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Bristolhibby
06-06-2025, 05:04 AM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250606/5316250112f971c0c9c6311b7f9569d3.jpg


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LAB: 31.5% (-2.0)
SNP: 29.4% (-16.8)
REF: 26.2% (+26.2)
CON: 6.0% (-11.5)
GRN: 2.6% (+2.6)

Tories collapsed. With SNP vote going to Green and 6% going to Reform!

WTAF?!?

What was the turnout?

J

RIP
06-06-2025, 05:35 AM
The first indication that a combination of Rangers backed by wealthy US investment is no guarante of success? :wink:

grunt
06-06-2025, 06:09 AM
What was the turnout?

J
44%, down a massive 16% on previous turnout. Not sure anyone can make many forecasts for next year with any confidence.

jamie_1875
06-06-2025, 06:24 AM
Turnout at 44% is good for a by election. A pretty stunning victory for Labour winning the seat from the SNP under the circumstances of why the by election happened in the first place. It was an awful campaign from Labour but still enough. Reform taking votes from all parties including the SNP, but I was surprised at how big the SNP vote dropped.

A great line from the winner Davey Russel "do you see me now".

Great result overall and give me renewed hope for 2026.

Hibspur
06-06-2025, 06:33 AM
That's a big, big win for Labour. They'll be ecstatic bearing in mind some thought they'd finish third. Very decent 44% turnout for a by-election too, with pundits having been predicting it would be a low as 30%.

The SNP will be privately devastated. They threw everything at that seat yet saw their vote plummet. Swinney was almost right though, it was a two-horse race between his party and Reform...but for second place! Here's hoping last night is replicated across Scotland in next year's Holyrood elections and we see the hapless SNP reduced to similar numbers as they now have at Westminster.

Reform will be happy enough. Very much part of a three-way battle for the seat and their vote rocketing from 0.2% to nearly 30%. They've shown they can be a player UK-wide.

GlesgaeHibby
06-06-2025, 06:38 AM
Turnout at 44% is good for a by election. A pretty stunning victory for Labour winning the seat from the SNP under the circumstances of why the by election happened in the first place. It was an awful campaign from Labour but still enough. Reform taking votes from all parties including the SNP, but I was surprised at how big the SNP vote dropped.

A great line from the winner Davey Russel "do you see me now".

Great result overall and give me renewed hope for 2026.

I'm not, for a number of reasons - governing party getting a kicking at a by-election happens lots, and the Labour candidate seems to have a decent local connection. However, it's clear Swinney is a disaster for the SNP. He was hopeless as leader first time round, given the education brief to great fanfare and failed there, and lead a poor campaign that saw the SNP trounced at the last general election.

ErinGoBraghHFC
06-06-2025, 06:45 AM
I'm not, for a number of reasons - governing party getting a kicking at a by-election happens lots, and the Labour candidate seems to have a decent local connection. However, it's clear Swinney is a disaster for the SNP. He was hopeless as leader first time round, given the education brief to great fanfare and failed there, and lead a poor campaign that saw the SNP trounced at the last general election.

Davy Russell is definitely a well kent face locally and I’ve no doubt that helped but I wasn’t impressed when he was canvassing or interviewed anywhere. To be fair though, none of the candidates impressed me very much.

Swinney needs to go imo.


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Jack
06-06-2025, 06:47 AM
There's far more pensioners cruising than in poverty is as ridiculous as saying far more kids in poverty than play shinty. Over 60s are by far the least in poverty in the uk. So do you direct money to them or the under 18s who are the most in poverty.

I hate boomers that are so greedy. Want the cheap housing they got, nice pensions, bairns can starve, where to next darling hurah

How many pensioners went cruising last year?

Pretty Boy
06-06-2025, 06:52 AM
Hard to know what to make of it.

SNP and Reform threw everything at it and Labour have sneaked up on the blindside. Labour weren't plucky underdogs though, they had the leadership out front and centre campaigning as well. While it's debatable as to whether that is a positive or negative it's proof they were taking it seriously and weren't resigned to defeat.

You have to wonder where a lot of Reforms vote came from. A chunk obviously from the Tories but that still leaves a big percentage unaccounted for. The Labour vote was down but not significantly enough to make up the difference. They are either motivating previous non voters to get our or they have taken some votes from the SNP.

jamie_1875
06-06-2025, 07:02 AM
The SNP to fall back to the old line "vote for the SNP for Independence" but I think people aren't stupid and don't buy that anymore. The SNP has no credible plan and they can blame Westminster over and over like they have done for years but it's not working, their vote is falling. I mean they could put Independence on page one line one of their manifesto and see if that helps. 😉

Hiber-nation
06-06-2025, 07:12 AM
The good people of Hamilton voting Labour on the basis of who they're not rather than who they are. And why not.

jamie_1875
06-06-2025, 07:16 AM
Swinney's line of it being a two horse race between the SNP and Reform was kind of right, for second place.

But Jamie Hepburn, the SNP campaign director in Hamilton,
says "We never suggested it was entirely a two horse race".

John Swinney, yesterday: "People face a simple choice in this by-election.

"They can either vote for the SNP – elect an SNP MSP – or they will end up with a Reform MSP. That’s the simple choice."

So lies from Hepburn.

Hibspur
06-06-2025, 08:00 AM
Hard to know what to make of it.

SNP and Reform threw everything at it and Labour have sneaked up on the blindside. Labour weren't plucky underdogs though, they had the leadership out front and centre campaigning as well. While it's debatable as to whether that is a positive or negative it's proof they were taking it seriously and weren't resigned to defeat.

You have to wonder where a lot of Reforms vote came from. A chunk obviously from the Tories but that still leaves a big percentage unaccounted for. The Labour vote was down but not significantly enough to make up the difference. They are either motivating previous non voters to get our or they have taken some votes from the SNP.

I heard John Curtice earlier saying Reform had taken one in four votes from the Tories yesterday and one in six from Labour. I didn't hear him mention the SNP, but given the collapse in their vote it's probably fair to assume some of their voters opted for Reform too.

staunchhibby
06-06-2025, 08:12 AM
More pensioners have been caught in the fiscal drag.Due to freezing of allowances by governments.When they get pension credits it negates any thing else they are entitled to.

Stairway 2 7
06-06-2025, 11:45 AM
Where do you get that figure about WFA? I'm an average income pensioner and I certainly didn't get it. If 97% of pensioners got the WFA then they were on low incomes and required pension credit.

You can't have it both ways.

Sorry of those bellow the poverty line. I think it's 16% of pensioners in poverty and similar amount get WFA.

Thanks to the triple lock pensioners are better off this year than last even with winter fuel allowance going, £362 or £472 a year it went up. The amount of pensioners in poverty has halved since 2000 when it was close to 30%, 40% of pensioners in 1990

Stairway 2 7
06-06-2025, 11:49 AM
Not sure what to make of that result as it's only 1 by election. Seems reform got it numbers from Conservative and SNP voters. It's easy to be a protest vote as Oz says previously Farage like Trump will plummet in power when their nonsense ideas don't work

Jack
06-06-2025, 11:51 AM
Sorry of those bellow the poverty line. I think it's 16% of pensioners in poverty and similar amount get WFA.

Thanks to the triple lock pensioners are better off this year than last even with winter fuel allowance going, £362 or £472 a year it went up. The amount of pensioners in poverty has halved since 2000 when it was close to 30%, 40% of pensioners in 1990

How many went on a cruise last year?

Stairway 2 7
06-06-2025, 11:59 AM
How many went on a cruise last year?

Not sure where you would get the precise figure for the answer to a flippant comment, ask Saga.

staunchhibby
06-06-2025, 12:06 PM
Yes but triple lock pulled a lot of pensioners into the tax banding. Took them over the claiming for pension credit

Stairway 2 7
06-06-2025, 12:49 PM
Yes but triple lock pulled a lot of pensioners into the tax banding. Took them over the claiming for pension credit

58k more pension credit claiming now than last year, although perhaps due to government advertising people not claiming. The real problem is so many pensioners don't claim the credit. 780k could claim but don't and 1.4 million get it. Think Reeves is backtracking and millions more will now receive WFA.

Jamesie
06-06-2025, 12:56 PM
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250606/5316250112f971c0c9c6311b7f9569d3.jpg


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Got some intel yesterday afternoon to suggest Labour were polling better than anticipated, and that turnout was holding up. Made a £10 investment with the bookmakers on Labour worthwhile, and I woke up £100 better off this morning as a consequence.

Jack
06-06-2025, 01:22 PM
Not sure where you would get the precise figure for the answer to a flippant comment, ask Saga.

You said there were more pensioners cruising than in poverty. Surely you know the figures.

Keith_M
06-06-2025, 01:23 PM
Maybe Souness' last minute plea to the voters actually worked, then.

Stairway 2 7
06-06-2025, 02:53 PM
You said there were more pensioners cruising than in poverty. Surely you know the figures.

I thought it would be blindingly obvious it was a joke and usually if you have to explain a joke or get the figures it kills it a bit.

What is true is that pensioners who are in poverty has plummeted from 40% to 14% just over 30 years. The problem is children in poverty has stayed at around 33% in that time. Younger people don't vote so I can see what the political parties are playing at

Andy Bee
06-06-2025, 03:26 PM
Maybe Souness' last minute plea to the voters actually worked, then.

Would this by-election be the only competition The Rangers have won this year?

Jack
06-06-2025, 10:05 PM
I thought it would be blindingly obvious it was a joke and usually if you have to explain a joke or get the figures it kills it a bit.

What is true is that pensioners who are in poverty has plummeted from 40% to 14% just over 30 years. The problem is children in poverty has stayed at around 33% in that time. Younger people don't vote so I can see what the political parties are playing at

Blindingly obvious jokes are found on the jokes thread, other jokes on that thread are less obvious.

You're always very keen to pepper your posts with numbers to prove your point. How can we tell the drivel from the ones you just make up?

Paul1642
06-06-2025, 11:47 PM
How many went on a cruise last year?

Devil’s Advocate mode on:

Not specific to cruses but:
Google suggests 31% of UK kids are in poverty.
Google suggests 16% of UK pensioners are in poverty.
Google suggest that 86% of over 50s go on at least one holiday per year and 23% of over 65s go on at least five holidays a year.

A means tested winter fuel allowance, with a lower threshold is what’s needed. If remotely accurate, those 23% taking multiple holidays simply don’t need it.

Moulin Yarns
07-06-2025, 06:53 AM
Devil’s Advocate mode on:

Not specific to cruses but:
Google suggests 31% of UK kids are in poverty.
Google suggests 16% of UK pensioners are in poverty.
Google suggest that 86% of over 50s go on at least one holiday per year and 23% of over 65s go on at least five holidays a year.

A means tested winter fuel allowance, with a lower threshold is what’s needed. If remotely accurate, those 23% taking multiple holidays simply don’t need it.

A bit more details are required.

I'm over 65, this year's holidays:

3 days in Edinburgh in April
4 days in Glasgow from tonight
5 days in Newcastle in November

Might try and get away in October for 5 or 6 nights, possibly the borders or lochaber

OK 5 holidays, but not exactly breaking the bank.

jamie_1875
07-06-2025, 07:11 AM
The PM "Growing up my mum worked for the NHS as a nurse. The world has since had a technological revolution, but our NHS is still stuck in the past.

Upgrades to the NHS app will deliver results and reminders straight to your phone – a crucial part of making our NHS fit for the future."

I know it's been mentioned before by why don't we have this in Scotland or something similar?

Jack
07-06-2025, 07:28 AM
Devil’s Advocate mode on:

Not specific to cruses but:
Google suggests 31% of UK kids are in poverty.
Google suggests 16% of UK pensioners are in poverty.
Google suggest that 86% of over 50s go on at least one holiday per year and 23% of over 65s go on at least five holidays a year.

A means tested winter fuel allowance, with a lower threshold is what’s needed. If remotely accurate, those 23% taking multiple holidays simply don’t need it.

Fair doos, you at least did some research.

However the bottom line is that the pensioners who go on x number of holidays each year are likely to be the ones that have saved and made sacrifices by way of pension, housing and other savings over their working lives.

They've gone without while buying and maintaining a home over that period, probably with expensive children in tow. Work pensions swallowing what seems a pointless fortune when you're younger.

A lifetime of being frugal.

The 16% quoted above are unlikely to made the same effort.

It's not just the WFA pensioners have lost the frozen tax allowances have brought many of the poorer pensioners into paying tax and creeping into paying more and more tax. I know of one who was paying a few hundred pounds tax a year, that's now a few thousand.

I'd suggest if the government make pensioners their go to scape goat for collecting more taxes then the generations coming through will ask what's the point of saving, what's the point of having a pension, what's the point in buying a house, indeed what's the point of any assets?

overdrive
07-06-2025, 07:41 AM
The PM "Growing up my mum worked for the NHS as a nurse. The world has since had a technological revolution, but our NHS is still stuck in the past.

Upgrades to the NHS app will deliver results and reminders straight to your phone – a crucial part of making our NHS fit for the future."

I know it's been mentioned before by why don't we have this in Scotland or something similar?

We have a half baked thing where you get a text message with hospital appointments but loads of people think it looks like a scam.

Bridge hibs
07-06-2025, 08:17 AM
We have a half baked thing where you get a text message with hospital appointments but loads of people think it looks like a scam.

Nothing half baked about it, I get loads of texts from hospital and doctors appointment reminders, very handy if I miss calls or forget appointments, its been an excellent service for me.

McD
07-06-2025, 08:20 AM
We have a half baked thing where you get a text message with hospital appointments but loads of people think it looks like a scam.


Which is sensible of them, a random text message that says it’s from the nhs and to click a link and provide personal information to log in. We’ve spent years being told anything that you don’t know about asking for personal information should be avoided and not to click on links from unknown sources.


I had this a few weeks ago, and was immediately wary. I checked with my wife who works for the nhs, who told me it was legit.


I’ve not seen any advertisements or information saying that the Scottish nhs had started doing this, a bit of effort into telling people that this was being launched would make people less wary.

McD
07-06-2025, 08:22 AM
Nothing half baked about it, I get loads of texts from hospital and doctors appointment reminders, very handy if I miss calls or forget appointments, its been an excellent service for me.


You’re right that is a great service. What Overdrive is referring to isn’t a reminder service, it’s a new way of telling you about new appointments or if you’ve been put onto a waiting list. Instead of a letter you get a text message asking you to log into a system, which then shows you a digital version of the letter you’d previously have received in the post.

jamie_1875
07-06-2025, 08:24 AM
Nothing half baked about it, I get loads of texts from hospital and doctors appointment reminders, very handy if I miss calls or forget appointments, its been an excellent service for me.

It's not an App where you can book appointments and message your GP, get your prescriptions and so on. It's a text reminder service.

Looks like we are getting something similar in Scotland next year but it's already years late as should have been with us in 2023 from the googling I just did.

Bridge hibs
07-06-2025, 08:25 AM
Which is sensible of them, a random text message that says it’s from the nhs and to click a link and provide personal information to log in. We’ve spent years being told anything that you don’t know about asking for personal information should be avoided and not to click on links from unknown sources.


I had this a few weeks ago, and was immediately wary. I checked with my wife who works for the nhs, who told me it was legit.


I’ve not seen any advertisements or information saying that the Scottish nhs had started doing this, a bit of effort into telling people that this was being launched would make people less wary.I spoke to my Doctors receptionist who asked if I would like to receive reminders for future appointments, very straight forward. Same for my Dentist and hospital appointments, I was given a choice and opted in, great service.

Bridge hibs
07-06-2025, 08:29 AM
You’re right that is a great service. What Overdrive is referring to isn’t a reminder service, it’s a new way of telling you about new appointments or if you’ve been put onto a waiting list. Instead of a letter you get a text message asking you to log into a system, which then shows you a digital version of the letter you’d previously have received in the post.

Yeah but thats not new though, Ive had that service from Urology at the Western for a couple of years, I never receive letters from them, same for my diabetic screening, I even had an app for an NHS Physio that enabled me to check availability and book appointments to suit.

McD
07-06-2025, 08:29 AM
I spoke to my Doctors receptionist who asked if I would like to receive reminders for future appointments, very straight forward. Same for my Dentist and hospital appointments, I was given a choice and opted in, great service.



I don’t think this is the same system. I get text reminders from my doctors surgery and my dentist also.


What I was referring to is an unknown number sending me a text message, saying it was from the nhs, to click the included link and log in using my personal information. When I checked up on it, this is a new service the nhs (not the doctor’s surgery) is running. After logging in, I was able to view a letter informing me I was being added to a waiting list to see a consultant, the same letter which previously I would have received through the mail. Other people I’ve since spoken to about it have said they had the same experience. I assume it’s a more efficient way to get information to people (assuming they have a smart phone), and saves the nhs a fairly significant amount of money on paper, printing and postage.

McD
07-06-2025, 08:32 AM
Yeah but thats not new though, Ive had that service from Urology at the Western for a couple of years, I never receive letters from them, same for my diabetic screening, I even had an app for an NHS Physio that enabled me to check availability and book appointments to suit.



Apologies, was replying to your other post.


That’s good to hear, I’d never experienced it before, neither had others I’d spoken to (including someone who’s never away from the hospitals with the volume of appointments they have), but I agree it’s a quicker service and easier to manage than waiting for a letter to come through the post.

Bridge hibs
07-06-2025, 08:39 AM
Apologies, was replying to your other post.


That’s good to hear, I’d never experienced it before, neither had others I’d spoken to (including someone who’s never away from the hospitals with the volume of appointments they have), but I agree it’s a quicker service and easier to manage than waiting for a letter to come through the post.

No probs mate, paper versions through the post are a mare to me, a few years ago I missed an urgent appointment at WGH because I didnt receive the letter and it was only later that day I knew when I got a telephone call from the hospital

McD
07-06-2025, 08:44 AM
No probs mate, paper versions through the post are a mare to me, a few years ago I missed an urgent appointment at WGH because I didnt receive the letter and it was only later that day I knew when I got a telephone call from the hospital


Yeah I agree, paper versions are susceptible to all sorts of issues, not least them not arriving!

Jack
07-06-2025, 11:08 AM
It's not an App where you can book appointments and message your GP, get your prescriptions and so on. It's a text reminder service.

Looks like we are getting something similar in Scotland next year but it's already years late as should have been with us in 2023 from the googling I just did.

I was in health policy for Scotland a while ago. At that time there was an issue around the NHS sending text messages due to patient confidentiality. Clinicians in particular were worried the 'wrong' people may have access to patients phones. That may be partly the reason for the slow roll out.

Andy Bee
07-06-2025, 12:16 PM
Fair doos, you at least did some research.

However the bottom line is that the pensioners who go on x number of holidays each year are likely to be the ones that have saved and made sacrifices by way of pension, housing and other savings over their working lives.

They've gone without while buying and maintaining a home over that period, probably with expensive children in tow. Work pensions swallowing what seems a pointless fortune when you're younger.

A lifetime of being frugal.

The 16% quoted above are unlikely to made the same effort.

It's not just the WFA pensioners have lost the frozen tax allowances have brought many of the poorer pensioners into paying tax and creeping into paying more and more tax. I know of one who was paying a few hundred pounds tax a year, that's now a few thousand.

I'd suggest if the government make pensioners their go to scape goat for collecting more taxes then the generations coming through will ask what's the point of saving, what's the point of having a pension, what's the point in buying a house, indeed what's the point of any assets?


I've no clue how they calculate a pensioner being in poverty but this 12, 14, 16% or whatever it is isn't realistic. There's approx 800k pensioners not claiming pension credit that should be and there's 1.4m that are so approx 2.2m pensioners are on £227 a week or less. Those 800k pensioners not claiming must be on the pre 2016 pension of £179 a week because you don't qualify for credit on the post 2016 pension of £230. There's 11m pensioners in England and Wales so 20% of them are on £227 a week or less to survive and that's before knowing how many pensioners are on the post 2016 pension alone without a private pension to top it up, I'd assume it's a fair amount of them.

Hibs4185
07-06-2025, 12:38 PM
My wife had a reminder two days ago but it was an unknown number which she was hesitant to answer.

I’d imagine more than 50% of calls go unaswered due to this which will affect the efficiency of the service.

Shouldn’t be too hard to get a number for outbound calls which everyone knows is the nhs. Something like 08700 242424.

Keith_M
07-06-2025, 02:09 PM
Would this by-election be the only competition The Rangers have won this year?


:faf:

Jack
07-06-2025, 02:30 PM
I've no clue how they calculate a pensioner being in poverty but this 12, 14, 16% or whatever it is isn't realistic. There's approx 800k pensioners not claiming pension credit that should be and there's 1.4m that are so approx 2.2m pensioners are on £227 a week or less. Those 800k pensioners not claiming must be on the pre 2016 pension of £179 a week because you don't qualify for credit on the post 2016 pension of £230. There's 11m pensioners in England and Wales so 20% of them are on £227 a week or less to survive and that's before knowing how many pensioners are on the post 2016 pension alone without a private pension to top it up, I'd assume it's a fair amount of them.

Well put.

It's been said before on here. It can't be beyond the wit of the government, through HMRC and DWP between them, to identify those pensioners not claiming the benefits they may be due and invite them to do so.

Stairway 2 7
07-06-2025, 03:22 PM
Would people agree that Labour and the Conservatives have done a spectacular job in getting the pensioners poverty level from 40% to 14% in just over 30 years. Horrendous that child poverty is still 33% and not dropped

Ozyhibby
07-06-2025, 03:54 PM
Would people agree that Labour and the Conservatives have done a spectacular job in getting the pensioners poverty level from 40% to 14% in just over 30 years. Horrendous that child poverty is still 33% and not dropped

Depends on if it is something they did or just that the generation retiring now all own their homes so have access to capital previous generations did not?


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JimBHibees
07-06-2025, 04:12 PM
Maybe Souness' last minute plea to the voters actually worked, then.

What did he say?

McD
07-06-2025, 06:05 PM
What did he say?


Souness endorsed the Labour candidate, encouraged people to vote for him. He also put the boot into Farage at the same time I think.

JimBHibees
07-06-2025, 09:26 PM
Souness endorsed the Labour candidate, encouraged people to vote for him. He also put the boot into Farage at the same time I think.

Cheers. Would have had him down as a Tory

Kato
08-06-2025, 10:53 AM
Cheers. Would have had him down as a ToryHe used to be.

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Bristolhibby
08-06-2025, 05:37 PM
Apparently Starmer being sung at by the England fans. To the tune of KC & The Sunshine Band's 1982 song Give It Up, fans sang: “Na-na, na-na, na-na, na-na-na-na now, Starmer is a c---, is a c---

I’m struggling to see what Starmer has actually done to get on the bad side of those morons?

Inheritance Tax for farmers, VAT on private schools and winter fuel payment (which is now getting reversed).

We are closer with the EU, have deals with the US, rail and water companies coming back under National Ownership.

I don’t get the hate. Suppose it’s England fans being a bunch of right wing wallopers might be the answer. Rule Britannia, F the Pope and the IRA and all that.

J

Keith_M
08-06-2025, 05:43 PM
Apparently Starmer being sung at by the England fans. To the tune of KC & The Sunshine Band's 1982 song Give It Up, fans sang: “Na-na, na-na, na-na, na-na-na-na now, Starmer is a c---, is a c---

I’m struggling to see what Starmer has actually done to get on the bad side of those morons?

Inheritance Tax for farmers, VAT on private schools and winter fuel payment (which is now getting reversed).

We are closer with the EU, have deals with the US, rail and water companies coming back under National Ownership.

I don’t get the hate. Suppose it’s England fans being a bunch of right wing wallopers might be the answer. Rule Britannia, F the Pope and the IRA and all that.

J


I'm not a Labour voter but I do find that a bit bizarre as well.

JimBHibees
08-06-2025, 05:50 PM
Apparently Starmer being sung at by the England fans. To the tune of KC & The Sunshine Band's 1982 song Give It Up, fans sang: “Na-na, na-na, na-na, na-na-na-na now, Starmer is a c---, is a c---

I’m struggling to see what Starmer has actually done to get on the bad side of those morons?

Inheritance Tax for farmers, VAT on private schools and winter fuel payment (which is now getting reversed).

We are closer with the EU, have deals with the US, rail and water companies coming back under National Ownership.

I don’t get the hate. Suppose it’s England fans being a bunch of right wing wallopers might be the answer. Rule Britannia, F the Pope and the IRA and all that.

J

He isn’t Farage

Hibrandenburg
08-06-2025, 06:21 PM
He isn’t Farage

Yep, buckle up because the next few decades are going to be "interesting" as the Chinese would say. We've got well supported right-wing leaders popping up all over the world who don't necessarily like or agree with each other, the potential for one of them to ignite major conflict is higher than it's ever been in my lifetime.

Ozyhibby
08-06-2025, 08:15 PM
Apparently Starmer being sung at by the England fans. To the tune of KC & The Sunshine Band's 1982 song Give It Up, fans sang: “Na-na, na-na, na-na, na-na-na-na now, Starmer is a c---, is a c---

I’m struggling to see what Starmer has actually done to get on the bad side of those morons?

Inheritance Tax for farmers, VAT on private schools and winter fuel payment (which is now getting reversed).

We are closer with the EU, have deals with the US, rail and water companies coming back under National Ownership.

I don’t get the hate. Suppose it’s England fans being a bunch of right wing wallopers might be the answer. Rule Britannia, F the Pope and the IRA and all that.

J

Long list of people he has hurt. Whose life has he made better? SNP doing the same. Vote us to stop Farage, Boris Truss etc. what are you for and what are you going to?


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Kato
08-06-2025, 08:50 PM
Long list of people he has hurt.

Do you think there's that much thought behind the chants?

It'll be because he put a stop to a few bonfires last summer.

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Bristolhibby
09-06-2025, 12:36 AM
Long list of people he has hurt. Whose life has he made better? SNP doing the same. Vote us to stop Farage, Boris Truss etc. what are you for and what are you going to?


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Long list? In 11 months. Who’s that?

Don’t say farmers and people who send their kids to private school.

And honestly, all must be in context of the 14 years of Tory nonsense. Brexit being the key enabler for our economic downturn.

J

Ozyhibby
09-06-2025, 05:34 AM
Long list? In 11 months. Who’s that?

Don’t say farmers and people who send their kids to private school.

And honestly, all must be in context of the 14 years of Tory nonsense. Brexit being the key enabler for our economic downturn.

J

I wasn’t saying it was bad policy, just that political parties just now are not pressing forward a positive vision of what they want to do?


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Bristolhibby
09-06-2025, 08:42 AM
I wasn’t saying it was bad policy, just that political parties just now are not pressing forward a positive vision of what they want to do?


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Yes. I agree the Labour PR machine and Comms is ****. (In part with the media’s obsession with Farage).

Labour should be spelling out what they’ve done, doing and will do. Shill also pointing out that Farages pledges are worse than Truss’s for the economy.

J

Moulin Yarns
09-06-2025, 08:53 AM
Just heard starmer at a tech conference

"Tech and AI will make us more human " said umpteen times.

No idea what it means and I don't think he does either.

jamie_1875
09-06-2025, 09:23 AM
Just heard starmer at a tech conference

"Tech and AI will make us more human " said umpteen times.

No idea what it means and I don't think he does either.

I don't think he will say something he doesn't understand. I have not seen the speech but it will mean that AI can take over repetitive or technical tasks, freeing people up to focus on creativity, empathy, relationships, and the things that make us human etc. I think there needs to be strict frameworks and guardrail around all of this but I suspect that's what he was meaning.

Smartie
09-06-2025, 09:31 AM
I don't think he will say something he doesn't understand. I have not seen the speech but it will mean that AI can take over repetitive or technical tasks, freeing people up to focus on creativity, empathy, relationships, and the things that make us human etc. I think there needs to be strict frameworks and guardrail around all of this but I suspect that's what he was meaning.

I think you're right.

But it is vague. And do people REALLY care? Or understand?

I think it was maybe the Trans Rights Debate where the very valid point was made that the SNP were banging on about Trans rights during a cost of living crisis. Folk didn't care about that whilst they were trying to make ends meet.

Whilst people are living month to month do they really want to have Keir Starmer lecturing them on being more human? I suspect not.

This isn't really a big deal to me but if we're wondering why Starmer is copping abuse from the crowd at an England game and we have a government who aren't really capturing the imagination of the public (albeit you certainly appear to be happy with them) - do you not think that this is maybe a valid criticism? Do you really think enough of the public are genuinely bothered about harnessing tech and AI in order to be more human or would they just rather it was a bit easier to put food on the table?

jamie_1875
09-06-2025, 10:02 AM
I think you're right.

But it is vague. And do people REALLY care? Or understand?

I think it was maybe the Trans Rights Debate where the very valid point was made that the SNP were banging on about Trans rights during a cost of living crisis. Folk didn't care about that whilst they were trying to make ends meet.

Whilst people are living month to month do they really want to have Keir Starmer lecturing them on being more human? I suspect not.

This isn't really a big deal to me but if we're wondering why Starmer is copping abuse from the crowd at an England game and we have a government who aren't really capturing the imagination of the public (albeit you certainly appear to be happy with them) - do you not think that this is maybe a valid criticism? Do you really think enough of the public are genuinely bothered about harnessing tech and AI in order to be more human or would they just rather it was a bit easier to put food on the table?

It was a speech to open London Tech Week so the people the speech was directed at will be interested and care. If it was just some random thing then I agree most don't care, but in the context for London Tech week it makes sense.

Jack
09-06-2025, 11:15 AM
Breaking!

Winter Fuel Payments will be extended to all pensioners with incomes of £35,000 or less this winter, the Government has confirmed. It means nine million pensioners will get the £200 or £300 top-up.

jamie_1875
09-06-2025, 12:12 PM
Breaking!

Winter Fuel Payments will be extended to all pensioners with incomes of £35,000 or less this winter, the Government has confirmed. It means nine million pensioners will get the £200 or £300 top-up.

Nice to see the change and admittedly a u turn. More generous than the Scottish version as well and unlike in Scotland millionaires won't be getting a winter fuel allowance! Also means extra funding for the SG of around £100M I understand. Let's hope the SNP spend it wisely where it makes a difference.

I am sure someone will find something wrong with it soon enough. 😁

Ozyhibby
09-06-2025, 12:39 PM
Nice to see the change and admittedly a u turn. More generous than the Scottish version as well and unlike in Scotland millionaires won't be getting a winter fuel allowance! Also means extra funding for the SG of around £100M I understand. Let's hope the SNP spend it wisely where it makes a difference.

I am sure someone will find something wrong with it soon enough. [emoji16]

A Labour triumph.[emoji23]


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Jack
09-06-2025, 01:02 PM
Nice to see the change and admittedly a u turn. More generous than the Scottish version as well and unlike in Scotland millionaires won't be getting a winter fuel allowance! Also means extra funding for the SG of around £100M I understand. Let's hope the SNP spend it wisely where it makes a difference.

I am sure someone will find something wrong with it soon enough. 😁

Let's be honest the Scottish version was done without the benefit of the Barnet Formula trickle down that was removed by Westminster when they stopped paying the WFA universally.

That trickle down will now be restored.

Interestingly, and you can file this under the UTTER CONTEMPT WESTMINSTER HAS FOR SCOTLAND if you like, it would appear from the BBC1 lunchtime news report that no-one from the UK government thought to let the Scottish Government know it was making this announcement.

Maybe if they had pensioners throughout the UK could have all been relieved by the good news at the same time.

Poor show from the Labour government.

Jones28
09-06-2025, 02:12 PM
Just heard starmer at a tech conference

"Tech and AI will make us more human " said umpteen times.

No idea what it means and I don't think he does either.

I understand it to mean AI and tech can take over the humdrum, day-to-day crap and give people more time to be people.

We should be able to cut down working time and outsource menial jobs to AI.

Bristolhibby
09-06-2025, 03:35 PM
I understand it to mean AI and tech can take over the humdrum, day-to-day crap and give people more time to be people.

We should be able to cut down working time and outsource menial jobs to AI.

Read an interesting article about AI and its ability to reduce our workload.

This will only work if the benefit and wealth is spread. Say moving to three day week but we get paid the same.

The concern is capitalists gonna capitalist and horde the wealth generated by AI and automation. Leaving a super wealthy caste (even more so than now) and potential revolution on their hands as working people don’t see the benefit and in worst case get sacked and are in an even worse position.

Now what would your money be on? A Star Trek utopia, or tech bros hoovering up all the capital and use robot slaves?

J

Jones28
09-06-2025, 03:54 PM
Read an interesting article about AI and its ability to reduce our workload.

This will only work if the benefit and wealth is spread. Say moving to three day week but we get paid the same.

The concern is capitalists gonna capitalist and horde the wealth generated by AI and automation. Leaving a super wealthy caste (even more so than now) and potential revolution on their hands as working people don’t see the benefit and in worst case get sacked and are in an even worse position.

Now what would your money be on? A Star Trek utopia, or tech bros hoovering up all the capital and use robot slaves?

J

Well thats exactly part of the problem.

Will it be a mechanism for companies to get rid of more staff and make bigger margins or will it liberate a workforce to allow people to work less for the same money...

Bristolhibby
09-06-2025, 04:01 PM
Well thats exactly part of the problem.

Will it be a mechanism for companies to get rid of more staff and make bigger margins or will it liberate a workforce to allow people to work less for the same money...

We know what the answer should be. We also know what capitalists will be wanting.

J

Paul1642
09-06-2025, 06:50 PM
Breaking!

Winter Fuel Payments will be extended to all pensioners with incomes of £35,000 or less this winter, the Government has confirmed. It means nine million pensioners will get the £200 or £300 top-up.

Definitely for the best but I do feel £35k is a bit of a high threshold. 25k would have been more appropriate.

Paul1642
09-06-2025, 06:54 PM
Read an interesting article about AI and its ability to reduce our workload.

This will only work if the benefit and wealth is spread. Say moving to three day week but we get paid the same.

The concern is capitalists gonna capitalist and horde the wealth generated by AI and automation. Leaving a super wealthy caste (even more so than now) and potential revolution on their hands as working people don’t see the benefit and in worst case get sacked and are in an even worse position.

Now what would your money be on? A Star Trek utopia, or tech bros hoovering up all the capital and use robot slaves?

J

None of the large technological advances in the last 40 years or so, computers and the internet probably being the most notable, have made any difference to how many hours your average person needs to work to earn a solid wage. Can’t see AI being any different.

The rich will get richer, replace some workers with AI perhaps, without passing on the wage. Instead of 100 workers doing a 40 hour week, they might get away with 50 doing the same job on a 40 hour week rather than the 100 existing workers getting to do a 20 hour week with would be the real benefit of AI.

It’s all about productivity going up rather than working hours going down :(

Jack
09-06-2025, 08:18 PM
Definitely for the best but I do feel £35k is a bit of a high threshold. 25k would have been more appropriate.

£35k is apparently the average working salary and I expect it will be a fair bit more than the average pensioners income.

I'm sure it's been worked to death on some excel spreadsheet at the various levels and a balance between what's important to politicians as been achieved.

If they made it the pensioners average half would still be campaigning and being a pest. The smallest number of well off pensioners campaigning is best!

Eaststand
10-06-2025, 10:01 AM
Definitely for the best but I do feel £35k is a bit of a high threshold. 25k would have been more appropriate.

I may be missing something obvious in the press release but, is the cut off to be based on income of 35k per person, or is it based on a joint income of 35k per household.

GGTTH

Jack
10-06-2025, 10:11 AM
I may be missing something obvious in the press release but, is the cut off to be based on income of 35k per person, or is it based on a joint income of 35k per household.

GGTTH

Individual income.

Jones28
10-06-2025, 10:34 AM
Individual income.

So does that mean a couple receiving £69,999 in pensions per year are eligible WFA?

CropleyWasGod
10-06-2025, 11:24 AM
The WFA is only available in England and Wales.

What is the equivalent in Scotland?

jamie_1875
10-06-2025, 11:37 AM
The WFA is only available in England and Wales.

What is the equivalent in Scotland?

"Every pensioner household in Scotland will receive a winter fuel payment next year, the Scottish government has announced.

Social Justice Secretary Shirley-Anne Somerville said those in receipt of qualifying benefits like Pension Credit would get £200 or £300 depending on their age, while all others would get £100.

The funds - which are limited to one payment per household - will be paid through a new Scottish Parliament benefit, which will not be ready until late 2025."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj6kl7ywe07o

CropleyWasGod
10-06-2025, 11:48 AM
"Every pensioner household in Scotland will receive a winter fuel payment next year, the Scottish government has announced.

Social Justice Secretary Shirley-Anne Somerville said those in receipt of qualifying benefits like Pension Credit would get £200 or £300 depending on their age, while all others would get £100.

The funds - which are limited to one payment per household - will be paid through a new Scottish Parliament benefit, which will not be ready until late 2025."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj6kl7ywe07o

Ta.

Do you know if there is an option to refuse it, as there is in England and Wales?

jamie_1875
10-06-2025, 11:50 AM
Ta.

Do you know if there is an option to refuse it, as there is in England and Wales?

My friend Mr Google says yes, if you write to Social Security Scotland and let them know.

CropleyWasGod
10-06-2025, 12:01 PM
My friend Mr Google says yes, if you write to Social Security Scotland and let them know.

Yeah, just saw this:-

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2jz30099go

Jack
10-06-2025, 12:45 PM
"Every pensioner household in Scotland will receive a winter fuel payment next year, the Scottish government has announced.

Social Justice Secretary Shirley-Anne Somerville said those in receipt of qualifying benefits like Pension Credit would get £200 or £300 depending on their age, while all others would get £100.

The funds - which are limited to one payment per household - will be paid through a new Scottish Parliament benefit, which will not be ready until late 2025."

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cj6kl7ywe07o

That article is from last year when the Scottish Government were doing what they could do mitigate against the Labour partys shocking decision to do away with the winter fuel allowance for the vast majority of pensioners.

In the biggest U turn yet by Labour this was changed yesterday so that now around 75% of pensioners in England and Wales will once again receive the allowance.

While Labour were keen to tell almost everyone about this significant U turn they didn't tell either the Scottish Government or NI. Do you know why they wouldn't do that?

So while it's very likely pensioners in Scotland and NI will receive the full allowance it cannot be confirmed until Westminster has given them details of the consequentials.

Do you know if the Labour government has informed the Scottish Government and NI of their U turn yet?

jamie_1875
10-06-2025, 12:52 PM
That article is from last year when the Scottish Government were doing what they could do mitigate against the Labour partys shocking decision to do away with the winter fuel allowance for the vast majority of pensioners.

In the biggest U turn yet by Labour this was changed yesterday so that now around 75% of pensioners in England and Wales will once again receive the allowance.

While Labour were keen to tell almost everyone about this significant U turn they didn't tell either the Scottish Government or NI. Do you know why they wouldn't do that?

So while it's very likely pensioners in Scotland and NI will receive the full allowance it cannot be confirmed until Westminster has given them details of the consequentials.

Do you know if the Labour government has informed the Scottish Government and NI of their U turn yet?

It's a reserved benefit only applicable to England and Wales so while a note or update would have been beneficial I suppose it's up to the SG how they allocate the money in Scotland. Maybe it was like the SNPs council tax freeze when they decided on it only 24 hours before announcing it, and not even bothering letting the councils know. Would be much better if they all talked and played nice together.

Jack
10-06-2025, 01:10 PM
It's a reserved benefit only applicable to England and Wales so while a note or update would have been beneficial I suppose it's up to the SG how they allocate the money in Scotland. Maybe it was like the SNPs council tax freeze when they decided on it only 24 hours before announcing it, and not even bothering letting the councils know. Would be much better if they all talked and played nice together.

It is incumbent on Westminster to inform the Scottish Government on any major policy issues that may affect them. And vice versa. It's part of the devolution agreement.

Why do you think they didn't do so?

jamie_1875
10-06-2025, 01:36 PM
It is incumbent on Westminster to inform the Scottish Government on any major policy issues that may affect them. And vice versa. It's part of the devolution agreement.

Why do you think they didn't do so?

I don't think it's a strict legal requirement under devolution as such (it's not a law) but under the Sewel Agreement (I thanks it's called that) there is a rule the UK Government won't legislate on devolved matters and vice versa, on this case it never did as the benefit is devolved to Scotland. I would much rather though both governments worked together but in this case as I say I don't know what has gone on, maybe it was decided last minute etc. but where they can both governments should be open and transparent.

It's a shame the SNP won't commit to passing on all the extra funding to pensioners though.

Jack
10-06-2025, 02:35 PM
I don't think it's a strict legal requirement under devolution as such (it's not a law) but under the Sewel Agreement (I thanks it's called that) there is a rule the UK Government won't legislate on devolved matters and vice versa, on this case it never did as the benefit is devolved to Scotland. I would much rather though both governments worked together but in this case as I say I don't know what has gone on, maybe it was decided last minute etc. but where they can both governments should be open and transparent.

It's a shame the SNP won't commit to passing on all the extra funding to pensioners though.

The UK government has been slow in letting the devolved nations know of policy announcements since devolution. In Scotland there was a marked change when the SNP came to power when it became the norm to find out policy changes through the media. It was probably the same in Wales.

At the moment we have no confirmation that Westminster has informed the Scottish Government how much it's getting in the trickle down.

I'm fairly certain it's illegal for the Scottish Government to commit or spend money it doesn't have.

Scotland's pensioners will just have to wait until Westminster sees fit to let Holyrood know.

Do you think it's fair that Labour seem to be deliberately delaying here?

jamie_1875
10-06-2025, 02:47 PM
The UK government has been slow in letting the devolved nations know of policy announcements since devolution. In Scotland there was a marked change when the SNP came to power when it became the norm to find out policy changes through the media. It was probably the same in Wales.

At the moment we have no confirmation that Westminster has informed the Scottish Government how much it's getting in the trickle down.

I'm fairly certain it's illegal for the Scottish Government to commit or spend money it doesn't have.

Scotland's pensioners will just have to wait until Westminster sees fit to let Holyrood know.

Do you think it's fair that Labour seem to be deliberately delaying here?

It's been reported it's about £250M but I don't think a figure to the exact pound and pence is needed to start planning. If the SG are waiting for the exact amount I suspect they aren't doing their jobs properly. As for policy via the media all governments unfortunately do that, the SNP have done that for a long time and even been censured by the Presiding Officer in the Scottish Parliament for doing so. The PO actually stopped a SG Ministerial Statement as the details had already been leaked to the press. I wish all governments would stop it.

Jack
10-06-2025, 03:19 PM
It's been reported it's about £250M but I don't think a figure to the exact pound and pence is needed to start planning. If the SG are waiting for the exact amount I suspect they aren't doing their jobs properly. As for policy via the media all governments unfortunately do that, the SNP have done that for a long time and even been censured by the Presiding Officer in the Scottish Parliament for doing so. The PO actually stopped a SG Ministerial Statement as the details had already been leaked to the press. I wish all governments would stop it.

I'm sure the Scottish Government has done their homework on this already and will be ready to act when Westminster confirms the figures.

Of course the delay means that UK government's Scottish Secretary Ian Murray and our favourite jambo can do a few media slots criticising the Scottish Government, just as you are doing, for something that it can do nothing about at this time. Hurrah! [Sarcastically waves 🇬🇧]

Moulin Yarns
10-06-2025, 04:40 PM
https://news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-government-demands-clarity-from-uk-government-over-shambolic-winter-fuel-payment-u-turn



https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2jz30099go


The outcry from some quarters that the SG haven't done anything about the WFP yet, just 24 hours after hearing the UK government has u-turned is laughable.

They need to know the Barnett consequencials before committing to a sum.

The amount already committed, £100 per pension household, had to come from the block grant, with the knowledge that something else was missing out.

I don't know the costs but it's not going to be a small amount. Now that additional funding is going to be available more can be allocated. I definitely like the idea that pensioners can opt out or donate to charity (Shelter?) Similar should be available for prescription charge IMHO

Jack
10-06-2025, 09:06 PM
Tuesday teatime and the Scottish Government was still waiting for details of the Labour government's U turn on the winter fuel allowance and the consequences for the Scottish budget.

Does anyone else think Westminster will drag its heals so that Sarwar can get get a few headline grabbing jibes in at FM Questions?

What a deplorable way to treat Scotland and its circa 1,000,000* pensioners.


* only over 65s figures to hand.

Stairway 2 7
11-06-2025, 10:40 AM
As I've bored people it's populist ballox as old people vote. 14% of pensioners in poverty down from 40% 20 years ago 33% of k8ds 56% of families with 4 kids

Neither policy effects me but bringing this back is nonsense and 2 child benefit cap is disgusting by Labour. Oh well England fans might like the right wing PM again, independence when?

Hibspur
11-06-2025, 10:50 AM
Starmer seems quiet on the rioting in NI compared to post-Southport. I've lost track of what the devolved government situation is there. Is Stormont finally up and running again?

Ozyhibby
11-06-2025, 01:24 PM
Starmer seems quiet on the rioting in NI compared to post-Southport. I've lost track of what the devolved government situation is there. Is Stormont finally up and running again?

I think Westminster would happily hand NI back but they just don’t know how to do it. In the meantime Starmer will just ignore it and hope it goes away.
He knows that it has no effect on his poll numbers in England as it’s seen as abroad to most.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

jamie_1875
11-06-2025, 03:52 PM
Extra £2BN funding for the Scottish Government as a result of Labours spending plans. Who is going to be first and say how awful it is? 😂

"Reeves said the announcements had provided Scotland with the "largest settlement in real terms since devolution was introduced"."

Oh I see Shona Robinson has got her grievance in early after getting billions more to spend and a budget of £52BN. It's kinda scary someone like her has control over such vast sums.

grunt
11-06-2025, 05:02 PM
Extra £2BN funding for the Scottish Government as a result of Labours spending plans. Who is going to be first and say how awful it is? 😂
Is that all? That's not very much. GB Energy got more than that.

JimBHibees
11-06-2025, 05:14 PM
Extra £2BN funding for the Scottish Government as a result of Labours spending plans. Who is going to be first and say how awful it is? 😂

"Reeves said the announcements had provided Scotland with the "largest settlement in real terms since devolution was introduced"."

Oh I see Shona Robinson has got her grievance in early after getting billions more to spend and a budget of £52BN. It's kinda scary someone like her has control over such vast sums.

Could say the same for Reeves

jamie_1875
11-06-2025, 05:40 PM
Could say the same for Reeves

I would somewhat agree, I am guessing she has one more chance.

He's here!
11-06-2025, 08:18 PM
Extra £2BN funding for the Scottish Government as a result of Labours spending plans. Who is going to be first and say how awful it is? 😂

"Reeves said the announcements had provided Scotland with the "largest settlement in real terms since devolution was introduced"."

Oh I see Shona Robinson has got her grievance in early after getting billions more to spend and a budget of £52BN. It's kinda scary someone like her has control over such vast sums.

It could be 20 billion and the SNP would still find a grievance.

To be fair, all opposition parties are going to find ways to pick apart anything budget-related announced by the government.

Kato
12-06-2025, 08:06 AM
I take things must be going well with waiting times for hospital appointments as there is not a cheep about the issue on telly or in the papers.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

grunt
12-06-2025, 09:13 AM
It could be 20 billion and the SNP would still find a grievance.

To be fair, all opposition parties are going to find ways to pick apart anything budget-related announced by the government.
If it was £20 billion then she may well have a grievance (I don't know, it's theoretical) but it wouldnt be the same grievance. Her complaint is that Scotland got less of an increase than the average given to other UK departments. £20 billion would clearly be more than average.

jamie_1875
12-06-2025, 09:55 AM
If it was £20 billion then she may well have a grievance (I don't know, it's theoretical) but it wouldnt be the same grievance. Her complaint is that Scotland got less of an increase than the average given to other UK departments. £20 billion would clearly be more than average.

The other departments seeing the big increases are the Ministry of Defense and the Department of Energy Security and Net Zero, both departments that the SNP agree with increased spending on and importantly there will be significant spending in Scotland. So that particular grievance is exposed as a yet another false grievance when you look at the detail.

Unless the SNP have suddenly changed their position and don't agree with increased defense spending and increased spending on energy security and net zero that will bring significant spending in Scotland? Don't think so.

It's a shame we may not see the significant spending and jobs in nuclear energy in Scotland, especially as the majority of the public support this.

Hibs4185
12-06-2025, 10:11 AM
Brian Cox obviously likes Starmer

https://x.com/bbcdebatenight/status/1932904134337794161

grunt
12-06-2025, 10:21 AM
The other departments seeing the big increases are the Ministry of Defense and the Department of Energy Security and Net Zero, both departments that the SNP agree with increased spending on and importantly there will be significant spending in Scotland. So that particular grievance is exposed as a yet another false grievance when you look at the detail.
:greengrin

In what way is it a "false grievance"? Whatever that is.

You know what, if Labour is so grudging about providing more funds for Scotland, let us go our own way and we'll not be such a burden on England's Government. Set us free.


It's a shame we may not see the significant spending and jobs in nuclear energy in Scotland, especially as the majority of the public support this.One simple way to fix that. Give us control to do what the majority of Scottish people want to do.

grunt
12-06-2025, 10:24 AM
Brian Cox obviously likes Starmer

https://x.com/bbcdebatenight/status/1932904134337794161
He's right though. Starmer - and Labour - couldn't give a xxxx about Scotland.

jamie_1875
12-06-2025, 10:42 AM
Brian Cox obviously likes Starmer

https://x.com/bbcdebatenight/status/1932904134337794161

It was a very odd appearance from Cox, he drifted into some kind of conspiracy theories and then said Kier Starmer didn't like Scotland because he occasionally talked about English football. He then did a minute speech where he waffled but said nothing. Good actor but he seemed a bit all over the place, he said Abla and the SNP etc should all unite though.

jamie_1875
12-06-2025, 10:46 AM
:greengrin

In what way is it a "false grievance"? Whatever that is.

You know what, if Labour is so grudging about providing more funds for Scotland, let us go our own way and we'll not be such a burden on England's Government. Set us free.

One simple way to fix that. Give us control to do what the majority of Scottish people want to do.

How is Labour grudgingly funding and spending in Scotland? And no such thing as an English Government, that's made up.

As for the majority comment, well the last few times people have actually had to vote and not give a view in an opinion poll the clear winners are the parties who don't support Independence. Last week being a great example. (And average polling results still has a slight lead for No)

McD
12-06-2025, 11:59 AM
I take things must be going well with waiting times for hospital appointments as there is not a cheep about the issue on telly or in the papers.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk



A positive Scottish nhs story:

My daughter fell a couple of weeks ago, and a few days later was still complaining of her arm being sore. Phoned the doctor, who suggested that since it was related to a fall, 111 would be a better option. 111 took the details, made an appointment for us to take her down to minor ailments/out-of-hours that evening at 9pm at St John’s.


We arrived at 8:55, taken through exactly at 9. Examined by a nurse practitioner, who recommended an X-ray. That happened about 10 minutes later, then the nurse practitioner took us back to the assessment room, showed us her X-ray and the diagnosis, support fitted and advice given, and we were leaving by 9:25. Absolutely fantastic.

Kato
12-06-2025, 12:04 PM
A positive Scottish nhs story:

My daughter fell a couple of weeks ago, and a few days later was still complaining of her arm being sore. Phoned the doctor, who suggested that since it was related to a fall, 111 would be a better option. 111 took the details, made an appointment for us to take her down to minor ailments/out-of-hours that evening at 9pm at St John’s.


We arrived at 8:55, taken through exactly at 9. Examined by a nurse practitioner, who recommended an X-ray. That happened about 10 minutes later, then the nurse practitioner took us back to the assessment room, showed us her X-ray and the diagnosis, support fitted and advice given, and we were leaving by 9:25. Absolutely fantastic.

Hope you're daughter is on the mend.


That is very good service. As a coinincidence my daughter fractured her arm just after Covid and while the service wasn't as quick as you experienced she was stookied up within three hours during what was still a very stressful time.

I guess good news stories about our services just aren't of interest to our outrage driven media.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Pretty Boy
12-06-2025, 12:05 PM
A positive Scottish nhs story:

My daughter fell a couple of weeks ago, and a few days later was still complaining of her arm being sore. Phoned the doctor, who suggested that since it was related to a fall, 111 would be a better option. 111 took the details, made an appointment for us to take her down to minor ailments/out-of-hours that evening at 9pm at St John’s.


We arrived at 8:55, taken through exactly at 9. Examined by a nurse practitioner, who recommended an X-ray. That happened about 10 minutes later, then the nurse practitioner took us back to the assessment room, showed us her X-ray and the diagnosis, support fitted and advice given, and we were leaving by 9:25. Absolutely fantastic.

In a similar vein my son split his ear open when falling at nursery last week. Mt wife had him up at A&E for 1pm, he was triaged, the cut cleaned, a couple of stitches put in and home within 3 hours. Would have been quicker but they held him for observation for a bit because it was a head injury. That's outstanding service really.

And I know anecdotal evidence isn't proper evidence when compared to actual trends and data but I've moaned when I've felt the service hasn't been up to scratch so only fair to compliment it when it's as good as that.

Hibspur
12-06-2025, 12:24 PM
It was a very odd appearance from Cox, he drifted into some kind of conspiracy theories and then said Kier Starmer didn't like Scotland because he occasionally talked about English football. He then did a minute speech where he waffled but said nothing. Good actor but he seemed a bit all over the place, he said Abla and the SNP etc should all unite though.

In that respect Cox reminds of the late Sean Connery when it comes to pontificating about politics.

Hibspur
12-06-2025, 12:31 PM
How is Labour grudgingly funding and spending in Scotland? And no such thing as an English Government, that's made up.

As for the majority comment, well the last few times people have actually had to vote and not give a view in an opinion poll the clear winners are the parties who don't support Independence. Last week being a great example. (And average polling results still has a slight lead for No)

The SNP's ship has sailed. They appear to have zero strategy when it comes to independence. Sturgeon saw to that, squandering the gift Salmond left her. Whereas he was perfectly willing to form a strategic alliance with the Tories to get legislation through Holyrood, her 'I despise Tories' approach was never going to win over undecided voters. They've fallen into the same trap under the hapless Swinney, pitching themselves as the 'anti-Reform' party rather than bringing anything constructive to the table.

jamie_1875
12-06-2025, 12:41 PM
The SNP's ship has sailed. They appear to have zero strategy when it comes to independence. Sturgeon saw to that, squandering the gift Salmond left her. Whereas he was perfectly willing to form a strategic alliance with the Tories to get legislation through Holyrood, her 'I despise Tories' approach was never going to win over undecided voters. They've fallen into the same trap under the hapless Swinney, pitching themselves as the 'anti-Reform' party rather than bringing anything constructive to the table.

It also helps legitimise Reform in Scotland, I don't think they were taken too seriously and had been getting nowhere in polls and in actual elections. Having a "Stop Reform" conference and then saying the by election was a two horse race between the SNP and Reform gave them a level of legitimacy they have never had in Scotland. It's probably why the rumors are starting about some in the SNP trying to force Swinney out.

cabbageandribs1875
12-06-2025, 01:01 PM
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetimes.com%2***%2Fpoli tics%2Farticle%2Ffact-check-rachel-reeves-figures-6hm3vgh0d%3Ffbclid%3DIwY2xjawK3oe5leHRuA2FlbQIxMQB icmlkETBNWm8yMG5ZVENuRTB4S3RwAR4lHSW0DAyCCbBTNuIoA 8QTUkJhtXsN1Uy4XPAIMj5fTfBVly5JM0yLKjrr8Q_aem_QPci 5D6MR17LFqlQEN2DsA (https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetimes.com%2***%2Fpoli tics%2Farticle%2Ffact-check-rachel-reeves-figures-6hm3vgh0d%3Ffbclid%3DIwY2xjawK3oe5leHRuA2FlbQIxMQB icmlkETBNWm8yMG5ZVENuRTB4S3RwAR4lHSW0DAyCCbBTNuIoA 8QTUkJhtXsN1Uy4XPAIMj5fTfBVly5JM0yLKjrr8Q_aem_QPci 5D6MR17LFqlQEN2DsA)

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/504378353_10097493350307405_129626200459768373_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=vcVX4bmrQe8Q7kNvwFuAndG&_nc_oc=AdnhM7RfeQUeswBqRr4V_-c_ASfGtu_sSUUqI6t_6JmSxVEMQrwIw0M_KEOS4Bg_K50&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=ebdTSHfvyWslJzxnNe161w&oh=00_AfODDE9bXSSfjzaa_LSRc3y7QD5aj000T7sLGhTpW6WG Yg&oe=68509D2A

Hibspur
12-06-2025, 02:01 PM
It also helps legitimise Reform in Scotland, I don't think they were taken too seriously and had been getting nowhere in polls and in actual elections. Having a "Stop Reform" conference and then saying the by election was a two horse race between the SNP and Reform gave them a level of legitimacy they have never had in Scotland. It's probably why the rumors are starting about some in the SNP trying to force Swinney out.

'The Presbyterian schoolmaster might fly in Perthshire, but in the rest of Scotland it just does not land'.

A quote attributed to one of the reported conspirators. It's pretty much on the mark. Nobody can doubt Swinney's commitment to his party, but as he's proved before he's no leader. He was on a bit of a hiding to nothing by stepping up shortly before last year's near-SNP wipeout at the General Election but last week's by-election defeat underlines that he simply doesn't inspire.

Smartie
12-06-2025, 03:14 PM
'The Presbyterian schoolmaster might fly in Perthshire, but in the rest of Scotland it just does not land'.

A quote attributed to one of the reported conspirators. It's pretty much on the mark. Nobody can doubt Swinney's commitment to his party, but as he's proved before he's no leader. He was on a bit of a hiding to nothing by stepping up shortly before last year's near-SNP wipeout at the General Election but last week's by-election defeat underlines that he simply doesn't inspire.

What the SNP really need is some time out of power.

Snipe from the sidelines whilst whichever incumbent makes us poorer and our lives worse.

The support for independence will then be there, if not an actual pathway to independence.

I don't think it matters who is in charge of them right now - they've been in power too long, their ideas are old and tired, there is little they can do to inspire and it's just what happens when the same lot are in charge for too long.

I'll probably not vote next time.

grunt
12-06-2025, 03:18 PM
The SNP's ship has sailed. They appear to have zero strategy when it comes to independence. Sturgeon saw to that, squandering the gift Salmond left her. Whereas he was perfectly willing to form a strategic alliance with the Tories to get legislation through Holyrood, her 'I despise Tories' approach was never going to win over undecided voters.


I think the biggest challenge Reform face is that, like the SNP under Sturgeon, they have an ego-driven figurehead who overshadows the rest of the party. In Sturgeon's case she turned out to be all front and no substance, but such was the cult-like persona she created she left behind an empty husk of a party.


As for Sturgeon, I can't think of a single flagship policy or pledge of hers which could be deemed to have come to fruition. Baby boxes maybe? She was swept in on Salmond's coat-tails and brought nothing to the table but years of empty promises. Finally made to look plain daft by her absurd obsession with gender ideology, while the murky goings on around Salmond's trial and the SNP finances didn't help.


If we're going beyond the last decade then yes, he's the other significant figure. A colossal politician who made the pipe dream of Scottish independence a genuine possibility, but whose efforts were largely undone by Sturgeon.


The SNP post-Salmond have managed to perfect the art of remaining in power while never delivering anything :wink:


I'm not dismissing SNP supporters out of hand incidentally. I was very much a fan of Salmond as a politician and were he to have remained in charge I wouldn't be surprised if Scotland had become independent. He'd certainly have exploited the haplessness of successive PMs more successfully than Nicola Sturgeon. I simply could not see what Sturgeon brought to the table (next to nothing as it transpired) and her successors have been left to try and tidy up the shambles she left behind.

You really don't like Sturgeon do you? Your sneering comments about her are peppered throughout the Labour and Reform threads. Why is that, I wonder? Is it because she's a woman? Did she steal your sandwiches at school? Who would have made a better SNP leader & First Minister between 2014 and 2023? Handsy Salmond?

McD
12-06-2025, 04:31 PM
Hope you're daughter is on the mend.


That is very good service. As a coinincidence my daughter fractured her arm just after Covid and while the service wasn't as quick as you experienced she was stookied up within three hours during what was still a very stressful time.

I guess good news stories about our services just aren't of interest to our outrage driven media.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk


In a similar vein my son split his ear open when falling at nursery last week. Mt wife had him up at A&E for 1pm, he was triaged, the cut cleaned, a couple of stitches put in and home within 3 hours. Would have been quicker but they held him for observation for a bit because it was a head injury. That's outstanding service really.

And I know anecdotal evidence isn't proper evidence when compared to actual trends and data but I've moaned when I've felt the service hasn't been up to scratch so only fair to compliment it when it's as good as that.



Yeah she’s doing well thanks, just a wee buckle fracture, it’s not diminished the cheek she gives out :greengrin


Hope your son is getting on ok PB .



The NHS gets a lot of stick, some of it fairly, but the people at the sharp end really are incredible, and often get the worst of the grief and very little praise, even though they’re the ones behind anything positive.

Hibspur
12-06-2025, 05:00 PM
You really don't like Sturgeon do you? Your sneering comments about her are peppered throughout the Labour and Reform threads. Why is that, I wonder? Is it because she's a woman? Did she steal your sandwiches at school? Who would have made a better SNP leader & First Minister between 2014 and 2023? Handsy Salmond?

Of course Salmond would have made a better leader. His resignation after the referendum defeat seemed like the honourable thing to do at the time, but in hindsight he'd have wished he stayed on. I never thought he seemed like a particularly nice guy, hugely arrogant for sure, but 'handsy' is pretty much the worst that can be levelled at him considering he was cleared of every charge brought against him in court (with the majority of the jury being women), with Sturgeon's government also having to pay him half a million pounds in compensation for their unlawful inquiry into his conduct.

While appointing Sturgeon as his successor turned out to be something he regretted, the influence she brought to bear on appointing her successor also cost the party dear. Kate Forbes was the obvious choice as somebody who would have held cross-voter appeal.

jamie_1875
12-06-2025, 05:12 PM
Announced this afternoon: "Acorn carbon capture & storage project to receive “around £200m” of development funding, Department for Energy Security & Net Zero confirms

DESNZ says that’ll secure 18,000 jobs in northeast Scotland that would otherwise have been lost"

More terrible news from Labour who don't give a **** about Scotland! Oh wait...😂

Ozyhibby
12-06-2025, 05:41 PM
Announced this afternoon: "Acorn carbon capture & storage project to receive “around £200m” of development funding, Department for Energy Security & Net Zero confirms

DESNZ says that’ll secure 18,000 jobs in northeast Scotland that would otherwise have been lost"

More terrible news from Labour who don't give a **** about Scotland! Oh wait...[emoji23]

Not a party political point really because all parties seem to support this but there is still no evidence this will work and it has not been achieved anywhere else. There are better uses for this money but I suspect it’s really just another subsidy for the oil industry.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Hibs4185
12-06-2025, 06:11 PM
Announced this afternoon: "Acorn carbon capture & storage project to receive “around £200m” of development funding, Department for Energy Security & Net Zero confirms

DESNZ says that’ll secure 18,000 jobs in northeast Scotland that would otherwise have been lost"

More terrible news from Labour who don't give a **** about Scotland! Oh wait...😂

Makes you wonder why they are so good to us poor old Scot’s, it’s almost too good to be true all these gifts bestowed upon us from Sir Starmer

jamie_1875
12-06-2025, 06:15 PM
Makes you wonder why they are so good to us poor old Scot’s, it’s almost too good to be true all these gifts bestowed upon us from Sir Starmer

Why do you characterise Scots as "poor old Scots"? The chip on the shoulder routine doesn't work in my opinion. Scotland pays it's way and we get our fair share, unless you think we don't pay our way?

In this case the SNP asked for £200M funding for the project and got £200M, why not just say that's great news and really positive for the Scots whose jobs will be secure as a result of this?

Hibs4185
12-06-2025, 07:04 PM
Why do you characterise Scots as "poor old Scots"? The chip on the shoulder routine doesn't work in my opinion. Scotland pays it's way and we get our fair share, unless you think we don't pay our way?

In this case the SNP asked for £200M funding for the project and got £200M, why not just say that's great news and really positive for the Scots whose jobs will be secure as a result of this?

I think we pay more than we get back for sure. Fat more benefits for England than scotland get in return.

Drove through the Borders today and there are signs so no pylons in the Gala water valley.

Guess where the pylons are going?

Hiber-nation
12-06-2025, 07:14 PM
https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetimes.com%2***%2Fpoli tics%2Farticle%2Ffact-check-rachel-reeves-figures-6hm3vgh0d%3Ffbclid%3DIwY2xjawK3oe5leHRuA2FlbQIxMQB icmlkETBNWm8yMG5ZVENuRTB4S3RwAR4lHSW0DAyCCbBTNuIoA 8QTUkJhtXsN1Uy4XPAIMj5fTfBVly5JM0yLKjrr8Q_aem_QPci 5D6MR17LFqlQEN2DsA (https://12ft.io/proxy?q=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.thetimes.com%2***%2Fpoli tics%2Farticle%2Ffact-check-rachel-reeves-figures-6hm3vgh0d%3Ffbclid%3DIwY2xjawK3oe5leHRuA2FlbQIxMQB icmlkETBNWm8yMG5ZVENuRTB4S3RwAR4lHSW0DAyCCbBTNuIoA 8QTUkJhtXsN1Uy4XPAIMj5fTfBVly5JM0yLKjrr8Q_aem_QPci 5D6MR17LFqlQEN2DsA)

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/504378353_10097493350307405_129626200459768373_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=vcVX4bmrQe8Q7kNvwFuAndG&_nc_oc=AdnhM7RfeQUeswBqRr4V_-c_ASfGtu_sSUUqI6t_6JmSxVEMQrwIw0M_KEOS4Bg_K50&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=ebdTSHfvyWslJzxnNe161w&oh=00_AfODDE9bXSSfjzaa_LSRc3y7QD5aj000T7sLGhTpW6WG Yg&oe=68509D2A

Two of my former colleagues work for the FoAI. They make appearances on Reporting Scotland and Scotland Today now and again but I bet they weren't asked on to discuss this.

jamie_1875
12-06-2025, 07:17 PM
I think we pay more than we get back for sure. Fat more benefits for England than scotland get in return.

Drove through the Borders today and there are signs so no pylons in the Gala water valley.

Guess where the pylons are going?

If Scotland pays in more than it gets back can you prove that? The Scottish Governments own figures say otherwise.

This was a few year's ago so may need updated but Scotland makes up about 8.2% of the UK population and pay about 8% of UK taxes, but we get about 9.2% of UK spending. That's about £10BN a year we can spend on the NHS and Education etc.

I hear this a lot that Scotland pays more in than it gets back, but it's never backed up with facts and figures though so if you have that data can you share?

CropleyWasGod
12-06-2025, 07:21 PM
If Scotland pays in more than it gets back can you prove that? The Scottish Governments own figures say otherwise.

This was a few year's ago so may need updated but Scotland makes up about 8.2% of the UK population and pay about 8% of UK taxes, but we get about 9.2% of UK spending. That's about £10BN a year we can spend on the NHS and Education etc.

I hear this a lot that Scotland pays more in than it gets back, but it's never backed up with facts and figures though so if you have that data can you share?

Compensation for having noisy neighbours.

jamie_1875
12-06-2025, 07:25 PM
Compensation for having noisy neighbours.

Perhaps, but it's a welcome sum that funds our public sector.

In 2023-24 Scotland raised £88.5BN in taxes and public spending was £111BN. How anyone can claim that means Scotland pays in more than it gets back is confusing.

CropleyWasGod
12-06-2025, 07:33 PM
Perhaps, but it's a welcome sum that funds our public sector.

In 2023-24 Scotland raised £88.5BN in taxes and public spending was £111BN. How anyone can claim that means Scotland pays in more than it gets back is confusing.

Jeez :rolleyes:

You do know it was a joke?

Ozyhibby
12-06-2025, 07:34 PM
Perhaps, but it's a welcome sum that funds our public sector.

In 2023-24 Scotland raised £88.5BN in taxes and public spending was £111BN. How anyone can claim that means Scotland pays in more than it gets back is confusing.

Scottish govt spent £111BN?


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grunt
12-06-2025, 07:41 PM
Kate Forbes was the obvious choice as somebody who would have held cross-voter appeal.
LOL. She was even disliked by the SNP supporters on here!

jamie_1875
12-06-2025, 07:43 PM
Scottish govt spent £111BN?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No, Scottish Government spending was around £75BN on Health and Education etc, things that are devolved to the Scottish Government. Reserved spending on things like social security and pensions was £36BN. So total public spending was £111BN. I understand there is an argument that for reserved spending £X may not be spent if Scotland was Independent though but there is zero analysis or figures on what that would be and how than would impact the numbers. (You think this would be a priority for someone in the Indy movement)

As I said if Scotland does pay in more than is spent in Scotland I would love to see those figures and would question why nobody seems to produce anything that backs it up, surely if true they would be on page 1 line one of the SNP website and manifesto.

jamie_1875
12-06-2025, 07:44 PM
Jeez :rolleyes:

You do know it was a joke?

Sorry, yes. I do sometimes struggle with that! Apologies.

CropleyWasGod
12-06-2025, 07:47 PM
Sorry, yes. I do sometimes struggle with that! Apologies.

:greengrin :aok:

jamie_1875
12-06-2025, 07:51 PM
"On 11th March 2023, Humza Yousaf told an SNP leadership hustings audience in Glasgow that if he became First Minister, he would take forward the “alternative GERS” project, originally announced by Derek Mackay in October 2019."

So what happened? 6 years and still waiting.

JimBHibees
12-06-2025, 08:07 PM
It was a very odd appearance from Cox, he drifted into some kind of conspiracy theories and then said Kier Starmer didn't like Scotland because he occasionally talked about English football. He then did a minute speech where he waffled but said nothing. Good actor but he seemed a bit all over the place, he said Abla and the SNP etc should all unite though.

Think some of his points were valid. Grangemouth is clearly a shocker by Labour as was punishing pensioners and the disabled. Party of the people though

Andy Bee
12-06-2025, 08:12 PM
If Scotland pays in more than it gets back can you prove that? The Scottish Governments own figures say otherwise.

This was a few year's ago so may need updated but Scotland makes up about 8.2% of the UK population and pay about 8% of UK taxes, but we get about 9.2% of UK spending. That's about £10BN a year we can spend on the NHS and Education etc.

I hear this a lot that Scotland pays more in than it gets back, but it's never backed up with facts and figures though so if you have that data can you share?



Instead of arguing your point using GERS which is pointless and lazy try looking at other factual figures and then come to a conclusion. E.G.

GDP per capita in similar types of countries :-

Switzerland - $99,564 per capita
Norway - $87,925 per capita
Denmark - $68,453 per capita
Sweden - $55,516 per capita
Finland - $52,925 per capita
Scotland - $34,105 per capita

Why is it so low when we have far more resources than many of the countries listed above?

Add to that the worst mortality rate for white males spanning nearly a century both in the "Union" and Europe. I agree with your point on the poor old Scots statement, we're just poor Scots, we don't have the benefit of getting old.

jamie_1875
12-06-2025, 08:31 PM
Instead of arguing your point using GERS which is pointless and lazy try looking at other factual figures and then come to a conclusion. E.G.

GDP per capita in similar types of countries :-

Switzerland - $99,564 per capita
Norway - $87,925 per capita
Denmark - $68,453 per capita
Sweden - $55,516 per capita
Finland - $52,925 per capita
Scotland - $34,105 per capita

Why is it so low when we have far more resources than many of the countries listed above?

Add to that the worst mortality rate for white males spanning nearly a century both in the "Union" and Europe. I agree with your point on the poor old Scots statement, we're just poor Scots, we don't have the benefit of getting old.

I would disagree it's pointless as it's all we have, the SNP were supposed to produce alternative figures but never did, you have to wonder why. In the past the SNP have told us they are the "Gold Standard" etc so it's what we have. I would argue using GDP per capita is kind of lazy, do we measure our quality of life using a single monetary figure and economic output? A country with a high population of billionaires for example would have a high GDP but it would mask the big inequalities. It doesn't also account for the cost of living, £20K in country A may buy you a lot but in B buys you significantly less.

Alternative measurements could be the Human Development Index which takes into account health and life expectancy, education and income ect and the UK scores very high being 13th in the World.

Back to the original point that kicked this off, if Scotland pays in more than it gets back where do these figures exist?

Hibspur
12-06-2025, 09:55 PM
LOL. She was even disliked by the SNP supporters on here!

Really? They seriously thought Yousaf was the best option?

Forbes was the candidate Westminster were a bit wary of. They'd have been delighted when it became clear Yousaf was Sturgeon's chosen one.

cabbageandribs1875
12-06-2025, 11:02 PM
what a shameful bunch

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/506054404_1154582363377181_8762886842599409781_n.j pg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=-vZ2tgvwKboQ7kNvwEngyip&_nc_oc=AdlfT5X71cLOHZycZh87dEQji-ahPkM5-6wOSBjz_VqXtFMHiSoYeKFSEGZXZoWf96k&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=ev-H1JUMsbD7J5o_4sc4bA&oh=00_AfN2JoB-RRlM6KYETYhdY9WoqKssxzWHNrLfDGVjhRflTg&oe=68513FDB

He's here!
13-06-2025, 04:13 PM
It also helps legitimise Reform in Scotland, I don't think they were taken too seriously and had been getting nowhere in polls and in actual elections. Having a "Stop Reform" conference and then saying the by election was a two horse race between the SNP and Reform gave them a level of legitimacy they have never had in Scotland. It's probably why the rumors are starting about some in the SNP trying to force Swinney out.

I was no fan of Salmond but I thought Sturgeon was the one who brought the real toxicity to the table (not just in relation to the independence issue but latterly over issues like the gender debate). Salmond actually loved Westminster and had the political reach and savvy to earn the respect of his opponents (witness his great friendship with David Davies).

Swinney was at her side throughout and simply continues to play her anti-Tory (now anti-Reform) card to try and screen the fact he has nothing else to offer.

Andy Bee
13-06-2025, 06:08 PM
I was no fan of Salmond but I thought Sturgeon was the one who brought the real toxicity to the table (not just in relation to the independence issue but latterly over issues like the gender debate). Salmond actually loved Westminster and had the political reach and savvy to earn the respect of his opponents (witness his great friendship with David Davies).

Swinney was at her side throughout and simply continues to play her anti-Tory (now anti-Reform) card to try and screen the fact he has nothing else to offer.

Same could be said about Humza Yousaf, you could probably argue we still haven't seen an SNP party not influenced by NS since Alex Salmond.

Hibs4185
13-06-2025, 06:33 PM
Same could be said about Humza Yousaf, you could probably argue we still haven't seen an SNP party not influenced by NS since Alex Salmond.

Only option for me is Stephen Flynn, failing that Kate Forbes

Kato
13-06-2025, 07:14 PM
Only option for me is Stephen Flynn, failing that Kate ForbesI don't doubt Swinney is a placeholder. Parties pick someone beige and unnoticeable if they've messed up/went past they're welcome. William Hague was leader of the Tories ffs.

Flynn will be the next leader, a bit fire in his belly and a good communicator.



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jamie_1875
13-06-2025, 07:29 PM
Don't see the appeal of Stephen Flynn, he has achieved very little other some good one liners at PMQs. He was the Westminster leader that oversaw a near wipe out of SNP MPs and had terrible judgement on thinking he could be MP and a MSP and push out the standing SNP MSP without apparently even telling her. What has he achieved? Very little.

I mean of course I would say this as I am not a SNP voter but I don't see him having the broader appeal needed, he is quite divisive in that you probably think he is really good or you probably can't stand him, not many will be in between.

I guess it comes down to is he becoming the next SNP leader and FM or the next leader of the opposition in Scotland.

grunt
13-06-2025, 07:52 PM
Don't see the appeal of Stephen Flynn, he has achieved very little other some good one liners at PMQs. He was the Westminster leader that oversaw a near wipe out of SNP MPs and had terrible judgement on thinking he could be MP and a MSP and push out the standing SNP MSP without apparently even telling her. What has he achieved? Very little.

I mean of course I would say this as I am not a SNP voter but I don't see him having the broader appeal needed, he is quite divisive in that you probably think he is really good or you probably can't stand him, not many will be in between.

I guess it comes down to is he becoming the next SNP leader and FM or the next leader of the opposition in Scotland.
One of the funniest posts we've ever had on here. Well done for that achievement.

Kato
13-06-2025, 07:53 PM
I mean of course I would say this as I am not a SNP voter



I'm not an SNP voter either, although I've voted for them on occasion.

There's a bit more to him than one liners in QT if you've ever heard him debate.

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jamie_1875
13-06-2025, 08:03 PM
One of the funniest posts we've ever had on here. Well done for that achievement.

Some of yours are belters though.

I did wonder what happened to Grumpy Gibby...😁

Hibs4185
13-06-2025, 09:01 PM
Don't see the appeal of Stephen Flynn, he has achieved very little other some good one liners at PMQs. He was the Westminster leader that oversaw a near wipe out of SNP MPs and had terrible judgement on thinking he could be MP and a MSP and push out the standing SNP MSP without apparently even telling her. What has he achieved? Very little.

I mean of course I would say this as I am not a SNP voter but I don't see him having the broader appeal needed, he is quite divisive in that you probably think he is really good or you probably can't stand him, not many will be in between.

I guess it comes down to is he becoming the next SNP leader and FM or the next leader of the opposition in Scotland.

Unionist doesn’t approve of Flynn, shock horror!

Now I know Flynn is def the man for the job

jamie_1875
13-06-2025, 09:07 PM
Unionist doesn’t approve of Flynn, shock horror!

Now I know Flynn is def the man for the job

😂😂😂 Please pick him, just like how Salmond, Sturgeon, Yousaf and Swinney will lead you to Independence. He is the one to do it just like all the others....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/24/scotland-independence-referendum-nicola-sturgeon-snp-wins-may-

https://news.sky.com/story/nicola-sturgeon-confident-her-successor-will-lead-scotland-to-become-an-independent-country-12840784

https://news.stv.tv/politics/humza-yousaf-believes-he-will-be-the-first-minister-to-lead-scotland-to-independence-from-uk

https://www.thenational.scot/news/25158281.john-swinney-scotland-will-independence-option-leader/

https://youtu.be/9reiUfV0EkM?si=8nEnOc5Umrr-r0FU

Hibs4185
13-06-2025, 09:22 PM
😂😂😂 Please pick him, just like how Salmond, Sturgeon, Yousaf and Swinney will lead you to Independence. He is the one to do it just like all the others....

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2021/jan/24/scotland-independence-referendum-nicola-sturgeon-snp-wins-may-

https://news.sky.com/story/nicola-sturgeon-confident-her-successor-will-lead-scotland-to-become-an-independent-country-12840784

https://news.stv.tv/politics/humza-yousaf-believes-he-will-be-the-first-minister-to-lead-scotland-to-independence-from-uk

https://www.thenational.scot/news/25158281.john-swinney-scotland-will-independence-option-leader/

https://youtu.be/9reiUfV0EkM?si=8nEnOc5Umrr-r0FU

Love your confidence, why doesn’t Starmer allow another vote then and put independence to bed for another 10-15 years?

jamie_1875
13-06-2025, 09:59 PM
Love your confidence, why doesn’t Starmer allow another vote then and put independence to bed for another 10-15 years?

Why should he? The people of Scotland voted Labour at the last election and they voted for Labour in the knowledge that meant no referendum or Independence. Independence isn't a priority for the people of Scotland, it was about 8th on a recent list. Independence isn't even a priority for the SNP, they have said no to an Independence Convention that they promised they would have. It may well happen but it's in the very very long grass for now.

Flynn is just as useless as the last one if there is no plan for Independence and the SNP don't have one.

Have you got those figures that say Scotland pays in more? Why do you believe it to be the case?

Smartie
14-06-2025, 08:18 AM
Don't see the appeal of Stephen Flynn, he has achieved very little other some good one liners at PMQs. He was the Westminster leader that oversaw a near wipe out of SNP MPs and had terrible judgement on thinking he could be MP and a MSP and push out the standing SNP MSP without apparently even telling her. What has he achieved? Very little.

I mean of course I would say this as I am not a SNP voter but I don't see him having the broader appeal needed, he is quite divisive in that you probably think he is really good or you probably can't stand him, not many will be in between.

I guess it comes down to is he becoming the next SNP leader and FM or the next leader of the opposition in Scotland.

Please take this in the spirit intended - the SNP need to be targeting people who will well and truly get up your nose.

There are parties I will never vote for. They’d be better off forgetting about me altogether rather than trying to seduce me, as it would alienate their core support to do so.

jamie_1875
14-06-2025, 09:41 AM
Please take this in the spirit intended - the SNP need to be targeting people who will well and truly get up your nose.

There are parties I will never vote for. They’d be better off forgetting about me altogether rather than trying to seduce me, as it would alienate their core support to do so.

👍 I am not their target voter I would agree 😁 But I personally don't see him as an attractive proposition to those who he will be hoping to win over. The problem the SNP have is their core support is dwindling, in 2015 they got 1.5M votes in 2024 they got 725,000 votes. Remember Nicola Sturgeon waving to the sell out crowds at the SECC? I even remember a bizarre new year show on STV where the main guests were Nicola Sturgeon, her Mum and her sister with Elaine C Smith, can you imagine that happening now?! That's mental!

I don't see Flynn as anything special but I may be wrong, but I have been right about all the others.

He's here!
14-06-2025, 09:59 AM
👍 I am not their target voter I would agree 😁 But I personally don't see him as an attractive proposition to those who he will be hoping to win over. The problem the SNP have is their core support is dwindling, they are getting less votes at nearly every single election since 2015 when they were riding high after the referendum. Remember Nicola Sturgeon waving to the sell out crowds at the SECC? I even remember a bizarre new year show on STV where the main guests were Nicola Sturgeon, her Mum and her sister with Elaine C Smith, can you imagine that happening now?! That's mental!

I don't see Flynn as anything special but I may be wrong, but I have been right about all the others.

Be surprised if they were to appoint two slapheids in succession...

More seriously, it would depend on how much clout the Sturgeon faction/cult still carry. Probably quite a lot. She didn't want Flynn as Westminster leader, preferring a subservient type like Blackford.

Hiber-nation
14-06-2025, 10:27 AM
Thought this was the Labour thread??

Hibs4185
14-06-2025, 10:31 AM
Thought this was the Labour thread??

All roads lead to the SNP and independence 🤣

grunt
14-06-2025, 10:56 AM
Thought this was the Labour thread??Labour posters just can't stop talking about the SNP :greengrin. Psychologists would probably have something to say about it.

Paul1642
14-06-2025, 01:22 PM
Unionist doesn’t approve of Flynn, shock horror!

Now I know Flynn is def the man for the job

Aren’t the would be unionist’s votes required to tip support for independence over to a majority?

Hibs4185
14-06-2025, 03:05 PM
Aren’t the would be unionist’s votes required to tip support for independence over to a majority?

Might be but I suspect the yes/no question is probably 40/45% with around 10-20% undecided. With every election/referendum it’s usually the floating voters who need swayed.

I think this is the SNP policy, be a stable and electable government and show a progressive vision, win over the undecided and youngsters. Unfortunately for them they are alienating the yes vote.

grunt
14-06-2025, 03:18 PM
I think this is the SNP policy, be a stable and electable government and show a progressive vision, win over the undecided and youngsters. I think you're right.


Unfortunately for them they are alienating the yes vote.Are they?

He's here!
14-06-2025, 04:45 PM
I think you're right.

Are they?

Yes voters presumably want to see a plan for how independence can be achieved. That's a non-starter under the current stewardship. Meaningless waffle about persuading Westminster is just rehashing an already failed strategy. Westminster, as was confirmed by Sturgeon's costly and unnecessary Supreme Court grandstanding, can simply say no. With just 9 UK seats the SNP dont have a leg to stand on.

superfurryhibby
14-06-2025, 05:16 PM
what a shameful bunch

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/506054404_1154582363377181_8762886842599409781_n.j pg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=-vZ2tgvwKboQ7kNvwEngyip&_nc_oc=AdlfT5X71cLOHZycZh87dEQji-ahPkM5-6wOSBjz_VqXtFMHiSoYeKFSEGZXZoWf96k&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=ev-H1JUMsbD7J5o_4sc4bA&oh=00_AfN2JoB-RRlM6KYETYhdY9WoqKssxzWHNrLfDGVjhRflTg&oe=68513FDB


Disgraceful.

Hibspur
14-06-2025, 08:13 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7872pngj2qo

I don't know if there's another thread on this subject, but I see the PM has finally announced a national inquiry into the grooming gangs scandal.

Kato
14-06-2025, 10:13 PM
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c7872pngj2qo

I don't know if there's another thread on this subject, but I see the PM has finally announced a national inquiry into the grooming gangs scandal.Great. Another jolly for the lawyers with zero done afterwards.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

JimBHibees
15-06-2025, 02:21 PM
what a shameful bunch

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/506054404_1154582363377181_8762886842599409781_n.j pg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=-vZ2tgvwKboQ7kNvwEngyip&_nc_oc=AdlfT5X71cLOHZycZh87dEQji-ahPkM5-6wOSBjz_VqXtFMHiSoYeKFSEGZXZoWf96k&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=ev-H1JUMsbD7J5o_4sc4bA&oh=00_AfN2JoB-RRlM6KYETYhdY9WoqKssxzWHNrLfDGVjhRflTg&oe=68513FDB

Explains alot

Hibspur
15-06-2025, 07:28 PM
Be surprised if they were to appoint two slapheids in succession...

More seriously, it would depend on how much clout the Sturgeon faction/cult still carry. Probably quite a lot. She didn't want Flynn as Westminster leader, preferring a subservient type like Blackford.

No love lost between Flynn and Blackford, somebody I was especially relieved to see depart the political scene. I thought the campaign he ran to unseat the late Charles Kennedy, who was our local MP when we lived in that part of the world, was disgusting, yet Sturgeon turned a blind eye to it. It jars with me that he's a Hibs fan.

He's here!
16-06-2025, 10:48 AM
Great. Another jolly for the lawyers with zero done afterwards.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

Remains to be seen how the government implement the Casey report, which gets released in full today.

Hibspur
16-06-2025, 08:57 PM
Casey report: Ethnicity of grooming gangs was shied away from.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/clynyyqdnrdo

A lot of this is unsettling stuff.