The future of the Labour Party

[Colr]

I'm liking the staying in the European single market. I'm liking the abolition of the House of Lords to be replaced by a Federal UK chamber. They're getting some decent policies together.

[High-On-Hibs]

Labour party are all over the place, the Tories are all over the place. All three parties at WM are run by old middle class journeymen.

We need a Macron.

Will you be saying that several years down the line when he pulls a Blair and murders thousands of people for nothing, then conveniently jumps ship not long before the economy hits the wall? :dunno:

[High-On-Hibs]

I'm liking the staying in the European single market. I'm liking the abolition of the House of Lords to be replaced by a Federal UK chamber. They're getting some decent policies together.

A federal UK will never happen. The unionist tactic has always been to dangle the federalism carrot just close enough to make people believe that it may happen some day, without ever quite allowing it to ever happen.

[Colr]

Will you be saying that several years down the line when he pulls a Blair and murders thousands of people for nothing, then conveniently jumps ship not long before the economy hits the wall? :dunno:

Let's see!

[Colr]

A federal UK will never happen. The unionist tactic has always been to dangle the federalism carrot just close enough to make people believe that it may happen some day, without ever quite allowing it to ever happen.

It should happen so that England can have its own parliament like the other three home nations. I think it would get a lot of support.

[overdrive]

Kezia Dugdale resigns as leader.

[hibsbollah]

Interesting watch last night, Labour The Summer That Changed Everything on iplayer now. It was clearly made with the expectation that The Tories were going to win an overall majority, and the editorial team ends up doing something different. Stephen Kinnock does not come out of it well, I almost felt sorry for him.

[ronaldo7]

With the Tories ripping themselves apart, the latest yougov poll shows May ahead again. :rolleyes:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/02/08/voting-intention-conservatives-43-labour-39-5-6-fe/

[Pete]

With the Tories ripping themselves apart, the latest yougov poll shows May ahead again. :rolleyes:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/02/08/voting-intention-conservatives-43-labour-39-5-6-fe/

I’m surprised the Tories and May aren’t further ahead considering nearly half the people surveyed were over fifty and 20% of them were over 65.

Once the next election comes the momentum will start to build again. Corbyn survived a deluge of fake news and abuse the last time and he will again.

[Hibbyradge]

With the Tories ripping themselves apart, the latest yougov poll shows May ahead again. :rolleyes:

https://yougov.co.uk/news/2018/02/08/voting-intention-conservatives-43-labour-39-5-6-fe/

I voted in that poll, for Corbyn.

It's a horrible statistic, particularly given the incompetence of the Tory party, but it might put more pressure on Corbyn to change his stance on Brexit.

I'm convinced that the promise of a 2nd referendum would put Labour ahead.

[ronaldo7]

I voted in that poll, for Corbyn.

It's a horrible statistic, particularly given the incompetence if the Tory party, but it might put more pressure on Corbyn to change his stance on Brexit.

I'm convinced that the promise of a 2nd referendum would put Labour ahead.

I don't think he has one, does he?


I’m surprised the Tories and May aren’t further ahead considering nearly half the people surveyed were over fifty and 20% of them were over 65.

Once the next election comes the momentum will start to build again. Corbyn survived a deluge of fake news and abuse the last time and he will again.

I'd like to think the people in England would come to their senses, I won't be holding my breath though.

[Hibbyradge]

I don't think he has one, does he?





He wants us out. No 2nd referendum. A Brexit for jobs etc etc

[Just Alf]

Probably for the other thread but I'm amazed there wasn't a final vote already baked into all of this... Even a rabid brexiter might have a rethink if they were looking like they'd get independence from Europe but would be unemployed.

That's an example by the way, not suggesting that's what's going to happen.


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[ronaldo7]

He wants us out. No 2nd referendum. A Brexit for jobs etc etc

:tee hee:

[Hibrandenburg]

He wants us out. No 2nd referendum. A Brexit for jobs etc etc

:agree: as always with politicians you need to watch what they do and not listen to what they say.

[marinello59]

I voted in that poll, for Corbyn.

It's a horrible statistic, particularly given the incompetence of the Tory party, but it might put more pressure on Corbyn to change his stance on Brexit.

I'm convinced that the promise of a 2nd referendum would put Labour ahead.

Would it put him ahead where it really matters though, in the constituencies that voted for Brexit? If he doesnt win them he has no chance of winning an election.

[steakbake]

Off in a different track, but what do folks make of Richard Leonard?

To my eyes, he's making very heavy work of it so far. The body language of those sitting around him is not particularly positive. If anyone can catch a look at yesterday's FMQs (if you're into that kind of thing), it was a study in human discomfort.

I don't think he's up to it. I cannot see where Labour might dig themselves out. When you think of some of the leaders they have had who appealed beyond their own kind and some of the talent that has left recently, they look to be in pretty dire straights.

[Hibbyradge]

Would it put him ahead where it really matters though, in the constituencies that voted for Brexit? If he doesnt win them he has no chance of winning an election.

I'm not sure that's the case. Opinions on Brexit are changing given the constant stream of negative forecasts.

Despite the confirmation bias you may hear from people, if an actual choice was given to us again, I think that many leavers would vote remain.

[lord bunberry]

Off in a different track, but what do folks make of Richard Leonard?

To my eyes, he's making very heavy work of it so far. The body language of those sitting around him is not particularly positive. If anyone can catch a look at yesterday's FMQs (if you're into that kind of thing), it was a study in human discomfort.

I don't think he's up to it. I cannot see where Labour might dig themselves out. When you think of some of the leaders they have had who appealed beyond their own kind and some of the talent that has left recently, they look to be in pretty dire straights.
He doesn’t come across as a natural leader. I think his plan will be to not say that much and let Corbyn lead the way.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Off in a different track, but what do folks make of Richard Leonard?

To my eyes, he's making very heavy work of it so far. The body language of those sitting around him is not particularly positive. If anyone can catch a look at yesterday's FMQs (if you're into that kind of thing), it was a study in human discomfort.

I don't think he's up to it. I cannot see where Labour might dig themselves out. When you think of some of the leaders they have had who appealed beyond their own kind and some of the talent that has left recently, they look to be in pretty dire straights.

I agree, i dont think he has settled in at all yet, although still very early.

He could walk down any street in scotland and not be recognised by anyone - not exactly our next FM in waiting id say...

[JimBHibees]

I agree, i dont think he has settled in at all yet, although still very early.

He could walk down any street in scotland and not be recognised by anyone - not exactly our next FM in waiting id say...

I know it is not a huge issue however found it strange that Labour couldnt find a Scottish leader.

[marinello59]

I know it is not a huge issue however found it strange that Labour couldnt find a Scottish leader.

But he lives in Scotland. It’s not an issue at all is it?

[JimBHibees]

But he lives in Scotland. It’s not an issue at all is it?

No dont think it is just not sure how it will play with the electorate.

[EH54]

I think the fact he isn't Scottish will be irrelevant to the Scottish electorate the fact he is well out his depth won't though.

[Hibrandenburg]

But he lives in Scotland. It’s not an issue at all is it?

:agree:

[Pete]

I think those who don’t think his nationality are an issue are kidding themselves. The social media feeds of Richard Leonard and Scottish Labour contain many comments from SNP supporters suggesting that he’s more suited to English politics and even some suggestions he should move back there.

Nationalism isn’t really my thing but when it develops into xenophobia, questions have to be asked.

[xyz23jc]

I think those who don’t think his nationality are an issue are kidding themselves. The social media feeds of Richard Leonard and Scottish Labour contain many comments from SNP supporters suggesting that he’s more suited to English politics and even some suggestions he should move back there.

Nationalism isn’t really my thing but when it develops into xenophobia, questions have to be asked.

Absolute nonsense...Daily Mail speak! :agree::confused:

[Moulin Yarns]

I think those who don’t think his nationality are an issue are kidding themselves. The social media feeds of Richard Leonard and Scottish Labour contain many comments from SNP supporters suggesting that he’s more suited to English politics and even some suggestions he should move back there.

Nationalism isn’t really my thing but when it develops into xenophobia, questions have to be asked.

Probably as a result of his saying he would support England at whatever sports if they are playing Scotland. Whoever asked him knew what they were doing.

[snooky]

No dont think it is just not sure how it will play with the electorate.

If I wanted to vote Labour, it wouldn't affect me one bit what his nationality was. What would matter would be if he is good enough to do the job.
I also think more of him saying that he supports England in sports, if that's how he feels. Much better being truthful than being a shallow patronising creep (as some politicians would choose to be).

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

I know it is not a huge issue however found it strange that Labour couldnt find a Scottish leader.

Agreed, i also found that a bit strange.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Probably as a result of his saying he would support England at whatever sports if they are playing Scotland. Whoever asked him knew what they were doing.

If he did say that good on him for being honest and not giving some fudged politicians answer. If he is English, why wouldnt / shoukdnt he afterall?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

If I wanted to vote Labour, it wouldn't affect me one bit what his nationality was. What would matter would be if he is good enough to do the job.
I also think more of him saying that he supports England in sports, if that's how he feels. Much better being truthful than being a shallow patronising creep (as some politicians would choose to be).

Have to admit i would find the idea of am English FM a bit odd?

I think its a strange move for a party that already has a major problem with its relationship with its Uk party. That would be my concern were i a labour member.

[Just Alf]

Have to admit i would find the idea of am English FM a bit odd?

I think its a strange move for a party that already has a major problem with its relationship with its Uk party. That would be my concern were i a labour member.

1st paragraph I initially agreed with at first read then when I thought about all the English folks I know who vote for the SNP (in a couple of cases are members) I changed my mind!

2nd paragraph I agree with (and still do :D), on a personal level my view is the guy's made his home here and is perfectly entitled to do what he can to improve the world around him in political "service" to his adoptive country. Not sure some of the hard of thinking folks out there can see that though :-(



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[Bristolhibby]

If he did say that good on him for being honest and not giving some fudged politicians answer. If he is English, why wouldnt / shoukdnt he afterall?

Agree. The cringe I felt when Gordon Brown said Gazzas goal AGAINST us was his favourite football memories!

How about just shut up and say you don’t like football.

J

[Mibbes Aye]

I struggle to take Richard Leonard seriously, only on the basis that he looks a bit like Hugh Abbot, and a bit like John Bercow, Phil Hammond and Andrew Mitchell.

There must be some sort of Identikit look for middle-aged white male politicians that he signed up to.

[Hiber-nation]

I struggle to take Richard Leonard seriously, only on the basis that he looks a bit like Hugh Abbot, and a bit like John Bercow, Phil Hammond and Andrew Mitchell.

There must be some sort of Identikit look for middle-aged white male politicians that he signed up to.

Reminds me a bit of Kenneth Williams. I'm not judging him on appearance though when I wonder how he can possibly be the best that Scottish Labour have got to offer.

[Mibbes Aye]

Reminds me a bit of Kenneth Williams. I'm not judging him on appearance though when I wonder how he can possibly be the best that Scottish Labour have got to offer.

Oooh Matron :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

How about just shut up and say you don’t like football.

J

Is he not a Raith Rovers 'supporter', oh wait:greengrin

[ronaldo7]

This new labour lot have not got a clue about their past. :greengrin

20319

[One Day Soon]

Reminds me a bit of Kenneth Williams. I'm not judging him on appearance though when I wonder how he can possibly be the best that Scottish Labour have got to offer.

lol

[JeMeSouviens]

Is he not a Raith Rovers 'supporter', oh wait:greengrin

Aye, but his favourite goal was for the Pars. :rolleyes:

[Colr]

Reminds me a bit of Kenneth Williams. I'm not judging him on appearance though when I wonder how he can possibly be the best that Scottish Labour have got to offer.

I would love to hear Kenneth Williams doing Prime Ministers Questions!

[cabbageandribs1875]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-43367511





Mrs Abrahams said she had been victim to "aggressive, intimidating and wholly unprofessional" treatment by "certain individuals in the leader's office" over the last 10 months.



dear debbie, don't be afraid to name names....you could maybe start with the wee bearded terrorist sympathising communist, go on just say it hen, mind don't get the office communists mixed up :greengrin


although some claim that she herself is a bit of a bully...

[Hiber-nation]

Corbyn sacks Owen Smith for calling for a 2nd referendum.

[Mibbes Aye]

Corbyn sacks Owen Smith for calling for a 2nd referendum.

Hilarious stuff. More Labour members voted to Remain than voted for Corbyn as leader. I will happily wager more Labour members would vote Remain in a second referendum. Still, he gets to indulge his 1970s/80s tropes :rolleyes:

[Mr White]

Corbyn sacks Owen Smith for calling for a 2nd referendum.

Shadow NI secretary expresses concern for the region and the GF agreement ahead of Brexit and calls for a rethink... and gets sacked. Even allowing for the party line aspect that's a pretty good indicator right there of why the labour party are a good distance from being electable just now despite the weakness and utter ridiculousness of the DUP propped Tory government.

It's just so sad all round that pretty much anyone with any measurable influence seems determined to shoot themselves in the foot and/or slit the throat of anyone who wants to bring some sanity to this utter madness.

[Colr]

Corbyn sacks Owen Smith for calling for a 2nd referendum.

I’m astonished that twat was in the shadow cabinet.

[Mibbes Aye]

Shadow NI secretary expresses concern for the region and the GF agreement ahead of Brexit and calls for a rethink... and gets sacked. Even allowing for the party line aspect that's a pretty good indicator right there of why the labour party are a good distance from being electable just now despite the weakness and utter ridiculousness of the DUP propped Tory government.

It's just so sad all round that pretty much anyone with any measurable influence seems determined to shoot themselves in the foot and/or slit the throat of anyone who wants to bring some sanity to this utter madness.

:agree:

There's a lot of self-indulgence going on just now from people in different parties. I find the phrase 'lunatics running the asylum' a bit distasteful but the sentiment of it captures where we are just now.

As for Smith, it's yet another example of Corbyn's sheer hypocrisy. He made a principle of voting against his party on hundreds of occasions but happily accepted all the support, finance and resourcing that came from being a Labour MP, especially when it came to re-election. Not so keen on comrades voicing disagreement now though.

[Bristolhibby]

:agree:

There's a lot of self-indulgence going on just now from people in different parties. I find the phrase 'lunatics running the asylum' a bit distasteful but the sentiment of it captures where we are just now.

As for Smith, it's yet another example of Corbyn's sheer hypocrisy. He made a principle of voting against his party on hundreds of occasions but happily accepted all the support, finance and resourcing that came from being a Labour MP, especially when it came to re-election. Not so keen on comrades voicing disagreement now though.

Corbyn was never in the shadow cabinet though.

Don’t get me wrong I agree with Smith 100% on this particular issue.

J

[Mr White]

I’m astonished that twat was in the shadow cabinet.

The way things are heading people will be dying in the streets of Northern Ireland in numbers again before too long. Smith wouldn't have been doing his job if he'd ignored that elephant in the room. It's a shame so many of his colleagues seem content to treat that as an inevitably.

[hibsbollah]

I’m astonished that twat was in the shadow cabinet.

I agree, he's spectacularly bad. However, I'm not happy at the implication that the sacking gives about the Party's Brexit position. A bad decision. Edit, or maybe a good decision for a bad reason.

[Mibbes Aye]

The way things are heading people will be dying in the streets of Northern Ireland in numbers again before too long. Smith wouldn't have been doing his job if he'd ignored that elephant in the room. It's a shame so many of his colleagues seem content to treat that as an inevitably.

I'll admit to not having an in-depth knowledge but Smith seemed to have a degree of respect from all communities in Northern Ireland, which few ministers or shadow ministers could really claim over the decades - does that sound reasonable?

[Mr White]

I'll admit to not having an in-depth knowledge but Smith seemed to have a degree of respect from all communities in Northern Ireland, which few ministers or shadow ministers could really claim over the decades - does that sound reasonable?

It does sound reasonable but tbh I don't know much about his rep over here. From what I've read recently though I think he was spot on in the comments that lead to his removal from the shadow cabinet.

[lord bunberry]

Shadow NI secretary expresses concern for the region and the GF agreement ahead of Brexit and calls for a rethink... and gets sacked. Even allowing for the party line aspect that's a pretty good indicator right there of why the labour party are a good distance from being electable just now despite the weakness and utter ridiculousness of the DUP propped Tory government.

It's just so sad all round that pretty much anyone with any measurable influence seems determined to shoot themselves in the foot and/or slit the throat of anyone who wants to bring some sanity to this utter madness.

And that is exactly the problem b. Anyone who decides to take up a position for the greater good in British politics is either whipped into line or slapped down. It’s not about who you know, it’s about who you add up to.

[Colr]

I agree, he's spectacularly bad. However, I'm not happy at the implication that the sacking gives about the Party's Brexit position. A bad decision. Edit, or maybe a good decision for a bad reason.

I voted in the last leadership challenge but, as much as I think Corbyn is preventing Labour putting a meaningful challenge to this diabolical Tory government, Owen was not of a sufficient calibre to replace him.

I was particularly pissed off with Angela Eagle for lacking the integrity to stand.

[ronaldo7]

It looks like the Labour councillors in Falkirk have just joined the Tories to oust the minority SNP administration. I wonder if Richard will have a word?

[xyz23jc]

It looks like the Labour councillors in Falkirk have just joined the Tories to oust the minority SNP administration. I wonder if Richard will have a word?

Congratulations!......Probably! :duck:

[snooky]

:agree:

Relentlessly incompetant.

The government is a shambles, with a working majority of only 17 and one of the weakest front benches I've ever known, yet Corbyn can't land a single blow.

He goes from gaff to gaff, but refuses to bugger off and let someone capable take the reins.

As you say, it's utterly depressing.
This is not meant to be a cheeky question but, is there someone available to take up the reins who IS capable?

[Hibbyradge]

This is not meant to be a cheeky question but, is there someone available to take up the reins who IS capable?

Everyone in the Labour party is keeping their heads down so I have no idea who is competent or otherwise.

But you've quoted a post I made over a year ago so maybe I had someone in mind then.

However, my point is still valid. Labour should be miles in front of the Tories yet they're still lagging behind.

Why's that?

[Hibrandenburg]

Everyone in the Labour party is keeping their heads down so I have no idea who is competent or otherwise.

But you've quoted a post I made over a year ago so maybe I had someone in mind then.

However, my point is still valid. Labour should be miles in front of the Tories yet they're still lagging behind.

Why's that?

Because politics in England has taken a huge leap to the right.

[Pete]

You’d think that after 19 pages, the irony would become apparent.

I’m not sure anyone who has contributed within the last two pages (apart from maybe one poster) has anything to do with the future of the Labour Party.

Plenty of people who are scared of what might happen though. Needlessly scared.

[Mibbes Aye]

You’d think that after 19 pages, the irony would become apparent.

I’m not sure anyone who has contributed within the last two pages (apart from maybe one poster) has anything to do with the future of the Labour Party.

Plenty of people who are scared of what might happen though. Needlessly scared.

Scared of what?

[hibsbollah]

You’d think that after 19 pages, the irony would become apparent.

I’m not sure anyone who has contributed within the last two pages (apart from maybe one poster) has anything to do with the future of the Labour Party.

Plenty of people who are scared of what might happen though. Needlessly scared.

Its like an old boyfriend at the bar, desperately trying to persuade everyone that his ex is actually really ugly and stupid, again and again and again. The ex has moved on and is happy with her new life. You just wish the pub bore would find someone else who would make him equally happy.

[RyeSloan]

The future is bright, the future is ‘free’!

So more ‘free’ stuff from Labour...this time under 25’s to get ‘free’ bus travel.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/11/labour-announces-plan-for-under-25s-to-have-free-bus-travel

To be paid for out of existing taxation so the ‘free’ is of course a total misnomer. Tax payer subsidised would of course be rather more accurate...or in fact funded by debt since the shortfall in the spending the money is currently ear marked for is to be filled with government borrowing.

Dunno why they just don’t make the whole transport system ‘free’! Over 60’s can travel ‘free’ in a lot of the UK and over 65’s everywhere. Now we have a proposal for under 25’s which only leave the forgotten lot between 25-60 who seem to be assumed not to need ‘free’ travel.

Then there is the cost...13m saving up to £1,000 = £1.4bn according to Corbynomics.

Of course Major Khan loves the policy (despite TFL now running a £1bn deficit, not helped by his meddling) claiming the ‘investment’ will do all manner of wonderful things.

[G B Young]

The future is bright, the future is ‘free’!

So more ‘free’ stuff from Labour...this time under 25’s to get ‘free’ bus travel.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/11/labour-announces-plan-for-under-25s-to-have-free-bus-travel (https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2018/apr/11/labour-announces-plan-for-under-25s-to-have-free-bus-travel)

To be paid for out of existing taxation so the ‘free’ is of course a total misnomer. Tax payer subsidised would of course be rather more accurate...or in fact funded by debt since the shortfall in the spending the money is currently ear marked for is to be filled with government borrowing.

Dunno why they just don’t make the whole transport system ‘free’! Over 60’s can travel ‘free’ in a lot of the UK and over 65’s everywhere. Now we have a proposal for under 25’s which only leave the forgotten lot between 25-60 who seem to be assumed not to need ‘free’ travel.

Then there is the cost...13m saving up to £1,000 = £1.4bn according to Corbynomics.

Of course Major Khan loves the policy (despite TFL now running a £1bn deficit, not helped by his meddling) claiming the ‘investment’ will do all manner of wonderful things.

Free bus travel for under-25s. That's the burning issue of the day isn't it? More hollow pledges from the blessed Jeremy as he looks to keep the youth vote on side, lest they start to realise he's just a rather dull old bloke.

[Hiber-nation]

"I'm Marc Wadsworth, you might have heard of me". Not for a while hopefully.

[Colr]

I would love to hear Kenneth Williams doing Prime Ministers Questions!

Carry on Brexit

The cast:-

David Davis- Syd James
De Pfeffel - Terry Scott
Michael Gove - Kenneth Williams

[Colr]

Big effort from the young Labour activists around the capital but very limited impact.

Given the lacklustre performances in the HoC by the parliamentary party, the evolution of Labour seems still work in progress!!

I think we’ve reach peak left wing and the party needs to broaden its appeal.

[Hiber-nation]

Pretty poor Labour performance in English local elections. This is usually an opportunity for the opposition to win a load of seats due to the public's unhappiness with the Government. No surprise though.

[Hibbyradge]

When I woke up and saw the Guardian headline " May survives", my heart sank. I've stayed silent about Jeremy Corbyn since the surprising result in the snap election, but that's a terrible result.

If Labour can't inflict a serious blow during local elections when the Tories are at each others throats, getting defeated 10 times a week in the HoL, their Prime Minister is implicated in an outrageous scandal, and their senior ministers are resigning to protect her, they stand little or no chance if removing them from government in a GE. Ever.

"Things might change so wait and see" isn't good enough for a football team never mind a political party.

If people really want the Tories out and Labour to form government, Corbyn must be replaced by a more voter friendly leader.

I suspect that winning the next general election isn't the priority for many on the left, however. I despair.

[Moulin Yarns]

I don't understand the local elections in England. Not every seat is being contested.

As numbers of seats go all bar UKIP and Tories have gained seats. But if not all council seats are up for grab what difference will it make

[ronaldo7]

When I woke up and saw the Guardian headline " May survives", my heart sank. I've stayed silent about Jeremy Corbyn since the surprising result in the snap election, but that's a terrible result.

If Labour can't inflict a serious blow during local elections when the Tories are at each others throats, getting defeated 10 times a week in the HoL, their Prime Minister is implicated in an outrageous scandal, and their senior ministers are resigning to protect her, they stand little or no chance if removing them from government in a GE. Ever.

"Things might change so wait and see" isn't good enough for a football team never mind a political party.

If people really want the Tories out and Labour to form government, Corbyn must be replaced by a more voter friendly leader.

I suspect that winning the next general election isn't the priority for many on the left, however. I despair.

England has stayed blue and will do for the foreseeable imo. We have alternatives up here though. Those thinking of returning to labour up here, and returning a Labour government in London are in for another bloody nose.

[Colr]

I don't understand the local elections in England. Not every seat is being contested.

As numbers of seats go all bar UKIP and Tories have gained seats. But if not all council seats are up for grab what difference will it make

All the seats in the London Councils were being contested and Labour pretty awful night. They failed to make any headway and actually went backwards in their main target Council, Barnet.

[lord bunberry]

I think the fact that UKIP didn’t stand in so many seats helped the Tories win as many seats as they did.

[Moulin Yarns]

I think the fact that UKIP didn’t stand in so many seats helped the Tories win as many seats as they did.

Yet they have lost 27 so far.

[lord bunberry]

Yet they have lost 27 so far.
:agree: But the expectation was that the sitting government would take a kicking. The results are a bit skewed by the collapse of UKIP.

[Pete]

Don’t worry my Blairite friends, here is a different perspective:

Labour take 600 more seats than the Tories

Labour hold twice as many councils

Labour make gains, Tories hoover up UKIP vote and STILL make losses

Labour had a huge swing to take Plymouth Council in the true blue South West

Labour took Kirklees, a council they haven't held since 1999

Labour has the best result in London since 1971

In Westminister and Wandsworth, Labour has more seats than at any time since 1986

Labour hold a record number of seats in Croydon, Ealing, Redbridge and Waltham Forest

Labour failed to take Barnet - yet Labour have NEVER won Barnet under any leader

Labour are the largest party in Trafford, meaning the Tories now hold no councils at all in Greater Manchester.

Don’t believe the hype✊🏼🌹

[Mibbes Aye]

Don’t worry my Blairite friends, here is a different perspective:

Labour take 600 more seats than the Tories

Labour hold twice as many councils

Labour make gains, Tories hoover up UKIP vote and STILL make losses

Labour had a huge swing to take Plymouth Council in the true blue South West

Labour took Kirklees, a council they haven't held since 1999

Labour has the best result in London since 1971

In Westminister and Wandsworth, Labour has more seats than at any time since 1986

Labour hold a record number of seats in Croydon, Ealing, Redbridge and Waltham Forest

Labour failed to take Barnet - yet Labour have NEVER won Barnet under any leader

Labour are the largest party in Trafford, meaning the Tories now hold no councils at all in Greater Manchester.

Don’t believe the hype✊🏼🌹

Yesterday's vote doesn't show any real shift towards Jeremy Corbyn's Labour whatsoever.

Any Opposition, Labour or Tory, should be hoovering up seats at this stage of the electoral cycle.

It's tragic that we are sleepwalking towards another Tory administration, whether minority, coalition or majority, in order that some leftists can self-indulge.

[Pretty Boy]

It's not a disaster for Labout but I struggle to be optimistic either.

This government should have been decimated last night. A PM who is as good as a lame duck, torn apart over Brexit, have been incumbents for almost a decade and embroiled in a huge scandal yet they will probably be feeling like they have been let off lightly.

Last night was a victory for the status quo.

[RyeSloan]

It's not a disaster for Labout but I struggle to be optimistic either.

This government should have been decimated last night. A PM who is as good as a lame duck, torn apart over Brexit, have been incumbents for almost a decade and embroiled in a huge scandal yet they will probably be feeling like they have been let off lightly.

Last night was a victory for the status quo.

Is that not kind of to be expected though?

Like it or not real politics is on hold until after Brexit happens. Once that triggers (in what ever form) there will be room for grand visions and paths for different directions (no government seems just to be happy to just try and improve everybody’s lot incrementally and sensibly) then I think we’ll get to see a more dynamic political world.

No doubt May will step down soon after Brexit...she’ll be pretty tired of shooting herself in the foot repeatedly for one thing and the Tory’s will rallying to a Make Britain great again flag.

Corbyn will then launch his grand plan of being free of the EU and thus free to promise the re-nationalisation of the the country (which actually won’t really cost anything) and make as many things free or capped as he can think of.


I can hardly wait [emoji24]

[marinello59]

It's not a disaster for Labout but I struggle to be optimistic either.

This government should have been decimated last night. A PM who is as good as a lame duck, torn apart over Brexit, have been incumbents for almost a decade and embroiled in a huge scandal yet they will probably be feeling like they have been let off lightly.

Last night was a victory for the status quo.

Down, down, deeper and down......

[Hibrandenburg]

The Tories and UKIP lost seats, Labour and the Lib Dems win seats. I guess that clarifies where UKIP took their previous success from.

[Mibbes Aye]

Down, down, deeper and down......

:greengrin

[Pretty Boy]

Down, down, deeper and down......

I'm shocked it took so long:greengrin

[Pretty Boy]

Is that not kind of to be expected though?

Like it or not real politics is on hold until after Brexit happens. Once that triggers (in what ever form) there will be room for grand visions and paths for different directions (no government seems just to be happy to just try and improve everybody’s lot incrementally and sensibly) then I think we’ll get to see a more dynamic political world.

No doubt May will step down soon after Brexit...she’ll be pretty tired of shooting herself in the foot repeatedly for one thing and the Tory’s will rallying to a Make Britain great again flag.

Corbyn will then launch his grand plan of being free of the EU and thus free to promise the re-nationalisation of the the country (which actually won’t really cost anything) and make as many things free or capped as he can think of.


I can hardly wait [emoji24]

You are probably right.

I'm fed up of 'real politics' being on hold though. It's been that way in Scotland for about a decade. The independence referendum, the EU referendum, the constitutional question post the EU referendum, brexit preparations and no doubt about 3 years of 'post brexit settlement' before we kick off another independence debate.

[IGRIGI]

To win over the Tories they need to win an election they will need to go for some James Hunt careerist full of soundbites like Chuka Umunna which depresses me.

[Pete]

To win over the Tories they need to win an election they will need to go for some James Hunt careerist full of soundbites like Chuka Umunna which depresses me.

I’m not so sure. People are looking far too deeply into local election results and should consider the GE performance after a poor set of results in 2017.

[Mibbes Aye]

I’m not so sure. People are looking far too deeply into local election results and should consider the GE performance after a poor set of results in 2017.

The 2017 GE results were abysmal though.

In 2017, Labour had a rise in the vote share and a rise in the absolute vote that hadn't been seen since the 1997 and 2001 elections.

In the 1997 and 2001 elections they turned that into majorities of 179 and 167

In 2017 we got a Tory government.

Corbyn managed to mobilise votes from people who deserted Labour after Iraq and from people who were never Labour but saw a chance to latch on to the Labour Party and try and further their own agendas. All it meant was Labour bolstered their vote in the London constituencies and failed to win the bellwether seats.

The problem there is that it's not a big enough critical mass in the swing seats to win a GE. Nothing like it. Pro-Corbyn votes are centred in seats that were and will always be Labour.

I make no apology for this, he's a parasite. He's enjoyed the benefit of the support of the Labour party machine through his decades as a backbencher while indulging himself repeatedly voting against party policy, literally hundreds of times. Since becoming leader he has adopted a shriller tone, trying to stop any dissent.

He needs to stop the self-indulgence and go.

[Colr]

The 2017 GE results were abysmal though.

In 2017, Labour had a rise in the vote share and a rise in the absolute vote that hadn't been seen since the 1997 and 2001 elections.

In the 1997 and 2001 elections they turned that into majorities of 179 and 167

In 2017 we got a Tory government.

Corbyn managed to mobilise votes from people who deserted Labour after Iraq and from people who were never Labour but saw a chance to latch on to the Labour Party and try and further their own agendas. All it meant was Labour bolstered their vote in the London constituencies and failed to win the bellwether seats.

The problem there is that it's not a big enough critical mass in the swing seats to win a GE. Nothing like it. Pro-Corbyn votes are centred in seats that were and will always be Labour.

I make no apology for this, he's a parasite. He's enjoyed the benefit of the support of the Labour party machine through his decades as a backbencher while indulging himself repeatedly voting against party policy, literally hundreds of times. Since becoming leader he has adopted a shriller tone, trying to stop any dissent.

He needs to stop the self-indulgence and go.

Much as I disagree with Brexit, it offers an opportunity to decide what we want the Country to be in the future. That call for an inclusive vision and a fresh perspective.

Trouble is parliament is like something from Tales from the Crypt and the parties are let by crusty old dotards.

[Hibbyradge]

http://www.heraldscotland.com/news/16206786.Corbyn_faces_Labour_backlash_over__unmiti gated_disaster__in_polls/?ref=ebln

[One Day Soon]

To win over the Tories they need to win an election they will need to go for some James Hunt careerist full of soundbites like Chuka Umunna which depresses me.

:faf: Corbyn has spent literally his ENTIRE career in politics.

[One Day Soon]

The 2017 GE results were abysmal though.

In 2017, Labour had a rise in the vote share and a rise in the absolute vote that hadn't been seen since the 1997 and 2001 elections.

In the 1997 and 2001 elections they turned that into majorities of 179 and 167

In 2017 we got a Tory government.

Corbyn managed to mobilise votes from people who deserted Labour after Iraq and from people who were never Labour but saw a chance to latch on to the Labour Party and try and further their own agendas. All it meant was Labour bolstered their vote in the London constituencies and failed to win the bellwether seats.

The problem there is that it's not a big enough critical mass in the swing seats to win a GE. Nothing like it. Pro-Corbyn votes are centred in seats that were and will always be Labour.

I make no apology for this, he's a parasite. He's enjoyed the benefit of the support of the Labour party machine through his decades as a backbencher while indulging himself repeatedly voting against party policy, literally hundreds of times. Since becoming leader he has adopted a shriller tone, trying to stop any dissent.

He needs to stop the self-indulgence and go.


Yup, Magic Grandad just isn't working.

But while I think he's about as charismatic and persuasive as a bucket of sick, the problem here isn't just one of personality and presentation. It's the actual substance and the politics which are toxic. The antisemitism crisis within Labour perfectly captures what is wrong. That it is there at all - and the failure to confront it - demonstrates the weasel worded politics and nature of the whole cadre around him.

[Colr]

:faf: Corbyn has spent literally his ENTIRE career in politics.

On the fringes.

[One Day Soon]

On the fringes.

No-one who has spent 35 years as a member of the Westminster parliament can credibly be described as having been on the fringes of politics.

Someone like Colin Fox has been on the fringes of politics, Jeremy Corbyn has spent his entire pampered career in the political elite.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

On the fringes.

So hes been an unsuccessful career politician for his whole career!

[RyeSloan]

So hes been an unsuccessful career politician for his whole career!

Good work if you can get it! [emoji38]

[IGRIGI]

:faf: Corbyn has spent literally his ENTIRE career in politics.

Ok, I should've added "Tory lite" at the beginning.

[Hibbyradge]

Ok, I should've added "Tory lite" at the beginning.

You mean not hard left.

Would you prefer Corbyn as leader and the Tories in power?

[IGRIGI]

You mean not hard left.

Would you prefer Corbyn as leader and the Tories in power?

Couldn't give a **** to be honest, just awaiting indryref2.

[Pete]

https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/article/labour-made-important-gains-but-a-united-party-would-be-racing-ahead

:agree:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

https://www.morningstaronline.co.uk/article/labour-made-important-gains-but-a-united-party-would-be-racing-ahead

:agree:

Says Pravda...😂

[Pete]

Says Pravda...😂

Great, more handbags.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Great, more handbags.

😁

[Beefster]

Couldn't give a **** to be honest, just awaiting indryref2.

You’ve got the EU elections coming up soon in France so something to keep you going whilst you wait.

[ronaldo7]

It looks like the Labour councillors in Falkirk have just joined the Tories to oust the minority SNP administration. I wonder if Richard will have a word?


Congratulations!......Probably! :duck:

I suppose it's to be expected these days with Labour in cahoots with the Tories, all over Scotland. I see they elected a Tory as Provost in Midlothian the other week.


Radical Richard will have something to say about it, nae doubt. Just like the Aberdeen councillors. :wink:

[lord bunberry]

This has been something that has been annoying me for a while. Corbyn and most of his supporters are on the side of the Palestinians. They therefore disagree with the policies of the Israeli government. After you add in a few ultra left wing members, suddenly you get accusations of anti semitism. I don’t believe they’re anti semites, they’re pro Palestine .

[Stranraer]

This has been something that has been annoying me for a while. Corbyn and most of his supporters are on the side of the Palestinians. They therefore disagree with the policies of the Israeli government. After you add in a few ultra left wing members, suddenly you get accusations of anti semitism. I don’t believe they’re anti semites, they’re pro Palestine .

I'm pro-Palestine but not anti-semitic. The same cannot be said for the Labour lot. Corbyn himself supported a clearly anti-semitic mural being kept up...

[Hibbyradge]

This has been something that has been annoying me for a while. Corbyn and most of his supporters are on the side of the Palestinians. They therefore disagree with the policies of the Israeli government. After you add in a few ultra left wing members, suddenly you get accusations of anti semitism. I don’t believe they’re anti semites, they’re pro Palestine .

Corbyn himself has acknowledged that there is an anti-Semitism problem in the Labour party which needs addressed.

Also, the Board of Deputies of British Jews, and the Jewish Leadership Council have complained about it. I'm guessing they're a better judge of the matter than we are.

[ronaldo7]

Corbyn himself has acknowledged that there is an anti-Semitism problem in the Labour party which needs addressed.

Also, the Board of Deputies of British Jews, and the Jewish Leadership Council have complained about it. I'm guessing they're a better judge of the matter than we are.

They balance it out with freezing out Asian members in Glasgow. I'm sure the court of session will have something to say about the racism in the party.

[Colr]

I was at a discussion event tonight in London about the future of Labour and I was left with an overwhelming feeling that wew are in a protracted period of political stalemate. Something may give to change things very fast but I’m not sure that’s in the control of either major party.

Extremism may well grow to fill the void unless one of the main parties can appeal to a broader constituion. Echoes of Weimar?

[JeMeSouviens]

I was at a discussion event tonight in London about the future of Labour and I was left with an overwhelming feeling that wew are in a protracted period of political stalemate. Something may give to change things very fast but I’m not sure that’s in the control of either major party.

Extremism may well grow to fill the void unless one of the main parties can appeal to a broader constituion. Echoes of Weimar?

Rees Mogg just needs a wee Adolf tache and we’re good to go ...

[snooky]

Rees Mogg just needs a wee Adolf tache and we’re good to go ...

..... and find him a suitable bunker. :coffee:

[Hibbyradge]

..... and find him a suitable bunker. :coffee:

Don't you mean a secret plane to Argentina?

[ronaldo7]

It seems Jezza's bubble has burst, as his approval rating slumps, and, Labour Live has to be propped up by unite and co, due to lack of appetite.

The Tories are running him ragged in England, whilst they remain third and falling in Scotland. 😲

[Stranraer]

It seems Jezza's bubble has burst, as his approval rating slumps, and, Labour Live has to be propped up by unite and co, due to lack of appetite.

The Tories are running him ragged in England, whilst they remain third and falling in Scotland. 😲

Are Labour still 3rd in Scottish polling? Leonard has done nothing to help them if that's the case...

[ronaldo7]

Are Labour still 3rd in Scottish polling? Leonard has done nothing to help them if that's the case...

Yup.

[RyeSloan]

It seems Jezza's bubble has burst, as his approval rating slumps, and, Labour Live has to be propped up by unite and co, due to lack of appetite.

The Tories are running him ragged in England, whilst they remain third and falling in Scotland. [emoji44]

The Survation poll gives Labour some hope in England but really if they can’t get in front of the Tories now what chance does Jezza ever have?

And the last poll I saw for Scotland for Westminster forecast ONE Labour MP from Scotland! Wow.

Their Scottish Parliament polling was hardly great either but did show at least some stability...albeit stable in 3rd place.

[Stranraer]

Labour haven't been ahead in a British poll since the 12th of April and even then it was by one point. If we had an effective opposition they should be miles ahead of this government.

[Colr]

The Survation poll gives Labour some hope in England but really if they can’t get in front of the Tories now what chance does Jezza ever have?

And the last poll I saw for Scotland for Westminster forecast ONE Labour MP from Scotland! Wow.

Their Scottish Parliament polling was hardly great either but did show at least some stability...albeit stable in 3rd place.

To do so he needs broader appeal. He doesn’t have broad appeal.

[Colr]

CON: 44% (+2)
LAB: 37% (-2)
LDEM: 8% (-1)
UKIP: 3% (-)
GRN: 3% (+1)

via @YouGov, 04 - 05 Jun
Chgs w/ 29 May

[Mibbes Aye]

To do so he needs broader appeal. He doesn’t have broad appeal.

He doesn’t have broad appeal but neither does he have the appearance of competence.

[Bristolhibby]

CON: 44% (+2)
LAB: 37% (-2)
LDEM: 8% (-1)
UKIP: 3% (-)
GRN: 3% (+1)

via @YouGov, 04 - 05 Jun
Chgs w/ 29 May

FFS!

You can trace Labours downfall all the way to picking the wrong Millaband.

Yes they are back to their roots, but the game has shifted. Combined with a hostile media, and they are facing an uphill battle. This all in the backdrop of a paralysed Tory minority Government.

J

[Hibbyradge]

CON: 44% (+2)
LAB: 37% (-2)
LDEM: 8% (-1)
UKIP: 3% (-)
GRN: 3% (+1)

via @YouGov, 04 - 05 Jun
Chgs w/ 29 May

Unbelievable

[Mibbes Aye]

FFS!

You can trace Labours downfall all the way to picking the wrong Millaband.

Yes they are back to their roots, but the game has shifted. Combined with a hostile media, and they are facing an uphill battle. This all in the backdrop of a paralysed Tory minority Government.

J

Yet it's funny that both May and Corbyn picked up on his policies as vote-winners.

Ed Miliband had the balls to publicly challenge Rupert Murdoch and Paul Dacre and the energy cartels. You will be hard-put to find an elected representative who has done similar.

And he stopped us going to war in Syria in the same way we did in Iraq, in tune with the majority of the public.

This will maybe find negative responses but he was miles ahead of May or Corbyn.

[Tornadoes70]

Scottish Labour's leader Richard Leonard is appearing ever more impressive especially at First Minister's Questions when Sturgeon had no answer to his calls for the hapless and inept Snp health minister Shona Robison to resign as per her shocking performance in this vital position.

Sturgeon's very limp reply was to accuse Mr Leonard of being 'political'.

Err...Sturgeon if your'e not used to politicians being 'political' which is of hugely significant importance in the field of err....politics then maybe its you who should resign along with the rest of what's being shown to be a not fit for purpose government you lead.

Sturgeon appears to have given up literally and calls upon her direct opponents in the political field to stop playing politics.....incredulous.

The Snp are completely out of touch and the likes of Scottish Labour's leader Richard Leonard are coming to the fore by directly 'politically' challenging them and he is demonstrating a wise choice when voted in to lead Scottish Labour.

:flag:

[Mibbes Aye]

Scottish Labour's leader Richard Leonard is appearing ever more impressive especially at First Minister's Questions when Sturgeon had no answer to his calls for the hapless and inept Snp health minister Shona Robison to resign as per her shocking performance in this vital position.

Sturgeon's very limp reply was to accuse Mr Leonard of being 'political'.

Err...Sturgeon if your'e not used to politicians being 'political' which is of hugely significant importance in the field of err....politics then maybe its you who should resign along with the rest of what's being shown to be a not fit for purpose government you lead.

Sturgeon appears to have given up literally and calls upon her direct opponents in the political field to stop playing politics.....incredulous.

The Snp are completely out of touch and the likes of Scottish Labour's leader Richard Leonard are coming to the fore by directly 'politically' challenging them and he is demonstrating a wise choice when voted in to lead Scottish Labour.

:flag:

Robison is a complete and utter failure and has been for a while. It's difficult for Sturgeon given she held that role herself and she was a failure then too.

Part of the problem is that health and social care isn't really headline stuff - delayed discharge or waiting on a home care package doesn't sound like a big deal, until it's you or your parent, grandparent or some significant other who is affected. Then it becomes personal.

And with that it becomes really clear that the system is a mess and in some parts of the country it's a shambles, bordering on negligence.

I've not heard Leonard offer any real solutions though. Or for that matter, any politician.

It's time to stop the excuses. Sturgeon and Robison need to acknowledge their failures, opposition pols need to admit they don't have a magic bullet and there needs to be some way of finding an objective and realistic way of dealing with massive and ongoing increases in demand, set against constraints or reductions in resources.

[Tornadoes70]

Robison is a complete and utter failure and has been for a while. It's difficult for Sturgeon given she held that role herself and she was a failure then too.

Part of the problem is that health and social care isn't really headline stuff - delayed discharge or waiting on a home care package doesn't sound like a big deal, until it's you or your parent, grandparent or some significant other who is affected. Then it becomes personal.

And with that it becomes really clear that the system is a mess and in some parts of the country it's a shambles, bordering on negligence.

I've not heard Leonard offer any real solutions though. Or for that matter, any politician.

It's time to stop the excuses. Sturgeon and Robison need to acknowledge their failures, opposition pols need to admit they don't have a magic bullet and there needs to be some way of finding an objective and realistic way of dealing with massive and ongoing increases in demand, set against constraints or reductions in resources.

The answer's most certainly not to retain the failure's Sturgeon and Robison Snp etc to continue on their now very transparent botch job.

Labour are the architects of the NHS and their Scottish leader Richard Leonard is holding the Snp failings to account which is an excellent achievement for the NHS is of the utmost importance and we just shouldn't have a Health Secretary whose failed in their position retained there solely because of their closeness to the Snp leader Sturgeon which is exactly what it looks like and was what the impressive Mr Leonard was alluding to.

:flag:

[RyeSloan]

Robison is a complete and utter failure and has been for a while. It's difficult for Sturgeon given she held that role herself and she was a failure then too.

Part of the problem is that health and social care isn't really headline stuff - delayed discharge or waiting on a home care package doesn't sound like a big deal, until it's you or your parent, grandparent or some significant other who is affected. Then it becomes personal.

And with that it becomes really clear that the system is a mess and in some parts of the country it's a shambles, bordering on negligence.

I've not heard Leonard offer any real solutions though. Or for that matter, any politician.

It's time to stop the excuses. Sturgeon and Robison need to acknowledge their failures, opposition pols need to admit they don't have a magic bullet and there needs to be some way of finding an objective and realistic way of dealing with massive and ongoing increases in demand, set against constraints or reductions in resources.

Who or what would be qualified to prescribe the solution? (Assuming of course the problem has been fully understood in the first place...)

[Mibbes Aye]

Who or what would be qualified to prescribe the solution? (Assuming of course the problem has been fully understood in the first place...)

I've said before that it needs something like a Royal Commission. Composed of academics who work in this field, clinicians, senior social work and social care people (including from the private and voluntary sector), people who use services or care for those who do and data analysts who can understand and articulate how resources get used, both financial and non-financial. They would map out the different options for fixing a broken system and assemble the pros and cons.

There's no shortage of people who understand the problem or elements of it. Then you need someone with the guts to say some of the unpopular things that need saying. Most politicians would shirk that hence why an independent chair of a Royal Commission seems the only answer.

[Tornadoes70]

I've said before that it needs something like a Royal Commission. Composed of academics who work in this field, clinicians, senior social work and social care people (including from the private and voluntary sector), people who use services or care for those who do and data analysts who can understand and articulate how resources get used, both financial and non-financial. They would map out the different options for fixing a broken system and assemble the pros and cons.

There's no shortage of people who understand the problem or elements of it. Then you need someone with the guts to say some of the unpopular things that need saying. Most politicians would shirk that hence why an independent chair of a Royal Commission seems the only answer.

What we need is a Scottish government of politicians who're actually competent. Its obvious Shona Robison is simply not able to cope with the task and Sturgeon is demonstrating extreme weakness or doesn't care if NHS Scotland implodes by failing to replace the hapless Robison and it appears all they care about is their single issue of holding yet another breakaway referendum just a few years after the last one when Scotland voted against it.

Richard Leonard of Scottish Labour is showing he's very capable at holding the Snp to account for their obvious failures and hopefully the good folk of Scotland who depend upon NHS Scotland are becoming aware of the fine job he's doing as opposition leader and vote in a party that is up to the task of ensuring good honest governmental management.

:flag:

[Mibbes Aye]

What we need is a Scottish government of politicians who're actually competent. Its obvious Shona Robison is simply not able to cope with the task and Sturgeon is demonstrating extreme weakness or doesn't care if NHS Scotland implodes by failing to replace the hapless Robison and it appears all they care about is their single issue of holding yet another breakaway referendum just a few years after the last one when Scotland voted against it.

Richard Leonard of Scottish Labour is showing he's very capable at holding the Snp to account for their obvious failures and hopefully the good folk of Scotland who depend upon NHS Scotland are becoming aware of the fine job he's doing as opposition leader and vote in a party that is up to the task of ensuring good honest governmental management.

:flag:

I'm sure I've called for Robison to go and Sturgeon is neck-deep in culpability given she was Health minister and then as FM she was in charge as things continued to get worse despite much-vaunted new strategies and approaches.

It's not that difficult to find the ammunition to fire at their failure. But Leonard hasn't offered solutions. The only thing of note I've seen from him is a desire to bring social care provision back into local authorities - nationalising home care if you like.

That's fine on one level - there's evidence that local authority-provided home care generates higher levels of satisfaction from people experiencing care. But it doesn't seem to address the fact that the unit cost of delivering home care through the local authority is around double that of delivering it through the private and voluntary sector.

I'm not sure people really appreciate the costs involved in the health and social care of the elderly in Scotland - it's somewhere between £5-6 billion a year or thereabouts. Doubling the home care budget is practically impossible without a massive funding increase from the centre and that's not going to happen without significant cuts elsewhere or huge hikes in taxation. I think some people would be up for that but it needs to be acknowledged and made clear to people that to do something like this then there are big decisions and big costs as a consequence.

[Tornadoes70]

I'm sure I've called for Robison to go and Sturgeon is neck-deep in culpability given she was Health minister and then as FM she was in charge as things continued to get worse despite much-vaunted new strategies and approaches.

It's not that difficult to find the ammunition to fire at their failure. But Leonard hasn't offered solutions. The only thing of note I've seen from him is a desire to bring social care provision back into local authorities - nationalising home care if you like.

That's fine on one level - there's evidence that local authority-provided home care generates higher levels of satisfaction from people experiencing care. But it doesn't seem to address the fact that the unit cost of delivering home care through the local authority is around double that of delivering it through the private and voluntary sector.

I'm not sure people really appreciate the costs involved in the health and social care of the elderly in Scotland - it's somewhere between £5-6 billion a year or thereabouts. Doubling the home care budget is practically impossible without a massive funding increase from the centre and that's not going to happen without significant cuts elsewhere or huge hikes in taxation. I think some people would be up for that but it needs to be acknowledged and made clear to people that to do something like this then there are big decisions and big costs as a consequence.

it seems perfectly clear to me that Scottish Labour's Richard Leonard is offering the simplest of solutions holding the Snp to account who're transparently mismanaging NHS Scotland and offering the good Scottish folk who depend upon it an alternative of a change in governmental management.

Sturgeon is demonstrating extreme weakness or couldn't care less if NHS Scotland implodes when refusing to replace the hapless Robison.

The Snp appear very tired and overly obsessed with their mantra of another breakaway referendum. They're failing and fading fast and the good folk of Scotland deserve so much better. Scottish Labour's Richard Leonard is demonstrating a freshness and real leadership by holding the fatigued Snp to account.

:flag:

[Mibbes Aye]

it seems perfectly clear to me that Scottish Labour's Richard Leonard is offering the simplest of solutions holding the Snp to account who're transparently mismanaging NHS Scotland and offering the good Scottish folk who depend upon it an alternative of a change in governmental management.

Sturgeon is demonstrating extreme weakness or couldn't care less if NHS Scotland implodes when refusing to replace the hapless Robison.

The Snp appear very tired and overly obsessed with their mantra of another breakaway referendum. They're failing and fading fast and the good folk of Scotland deserve so much better. Scottish Labour's Richard Leonard is demonstrating a freshness and real leadership by holding the fatigued Snp to account.

:flag:

Challenging the SNP on poor performance and saying "I can do better" isn't offering a solution, it's offering an alternative.

I've maybe missed it, I don't have all the time I would like, but what exactly is Richard Leonard's solution to the woes of health and social care?

[Tornadoes70]

Challenging the SNP on poor performance and saying "I can do better" isn't offering a solution, it's offering an alternative.

I've maybe missed it, I don't have all the time I would like, but what exactly is Richard Leonard's solution to the woes of health and social care?

(I know you're not a Jambo but will use them as a very simplistic analogy and what I purport to be a correct one)

You sound like a Jambo who knew Computer Boy was a complete and utter failure yet couldn't help defend him simply because of allegiances to the club.

The Snp are failing the good Scottish folk who deserve so much better and Scottish Labour represent a freshness and the opportunity to free ourselves from the abject misery of Snp obsession with yet another breakaway referendum that was rejected just a few years ago.

We as a nation deserve so much better than the obsessive Snp and its refusal to offer ordinary decent honest governance and Scottish Labour would I firmly believe put into place a far better system of governmental management.

:flag:

[Mibbes Aye]

(I know you're not a Jambo but will use them as a very simplistic analogy and what I purport to be a correct one)

You sound like a Jambo who knew Computer Boy was a complete and utter failure yet couldn't help defend him simply because of allegiances to the club.

The Snp are failing the good Scottish folk who deserve so much better and Scottish Labour represent a freshness and the opportunity to free ourselves from the abject misery of Snp obsession with yet another breakaway referendum that was rejected just a few years ago.

We as a nation deserve so much better than the obsessive Snp and its refusal to offer ordinary decent honest governance and Scottish Labour would I firmly believe put into place a far better system of governmental management.

:flag:

Are you suggesting I'm an SNP supporter?

Ronaldo7 and JMS will be pissing themselves laughing :greengrin

[Mibbes Aye]

Oh, and while you are at it, you said Richard Leonard had the solution to our health and social care problems.

Please share.

[Tornadoes70]

Are you suggesting I'm an SNP supporter?

Ronaldo7 and JMS will be pissing themselves laughing :greengrin

No to the top however one wouldn't necessarily be able to tell due to your negativity at suggestions that because the Snp have completely failed at ordinary competence when in charge of NHS Scotland that its not worth giving other parties a shot who don't have the overarching confines of seeking a breakaway referendum. Failure suits the Snp as they can then seek to place the blame elsewhere.

Scottish Labour seriously care about the public services and would in my opinion put in place serious folk in charge of them and not the likes of the extrordinarily hapless Shona Robison.

:flag:

[Tornadoes70]

Oh, and while you are at it, you said Richard Leonard had the solution to our health and social care problems.

Please share.

I actually didn't say these specific words but if it suits your purpose carry on regardless.

:flag:

[Mibbes Aye]

No to the top however one wouldn't necessarily be able to tell due to your negativity at suggestions that because the Snp have completely failed at ordinary competence when in charge of NHS Scotland that its not worth giving other parties a shot who don't have the overarching confines of seeking a breakaway referendum. Failure suits the Snp as they can then seek to place the blame elsewhere.

Scottish Labour seriously care about the public services and would in my opinion put in place serious folk in charge of them and not the hapless Shona Robison.

:flag:


You maybe didn't pick up on my second post because you were responding to the one I did first. What are Richard Leonard's solutions to the health and social care problems we face - you said he had them?

I don't think any politician of any hue wants to see the health service fail, especially on their watch. That's why it needs removed from them to a Royal Commission or the likes, which will have the licence to say the unpopular things that need to be said.

[Tornadoes70]

You maybe didn't pick up on my second post because you were responding to the one I did. What are Richard Leonard's solutions to the health and social care problems we face - you said he had them?

I don't think any politician of any hue wants to see the health service fail, especially on their watch. That's why it needs removed from them to a Royal Commission or the likes, which will have the licence to say the unpopular things that need to be said.

It was you who began banging on about 'health and social care problems'.

Commissions are totally useless for politicians can either accept or reject their recommendations.

What the good Scottish folk really need is a break from the tired single issue purpose of the Snp which is another breakaway referendum.

The Scottish folk deserve so much better than a bunch of self serving selfish nationalists who only care about one thing and one thing only.

:flag:

[Mibbes Aye]

It was you who began banging on about 'health and social care problems'.

Commissions are totally useless for politicians can either accept or reject their recommendations.

What the good Scottish folk really need is a break from the tired single issue purpose of the Snp which is another breakaway referendum.

The Scottish folk deserve so much better than a bunch of self serving selfish nationalists who only care about one thing and one thing only.

:flag:

That's strange because I thought this all started when you posted about Shona Robison and I replied to your post?

I'm not sure you understand the weight and authority of Royal Commissions if you feel they they are "totally useless"

As for your last two sentences, I think it flags up an interesting point - you rightly say there is a party that is defined by a single issue. It then finds itself in administrative power but within the structure it seeks to leave. So, it has to govern and make policy but within constraints it is trying to change. Fascinating stuff.

Anyway, what's Richard Leonard's simple solution to health and social care?

[Tornadoes70]

That's strange because I thought this all started when you posted about Shona Robison and I replied to your post?

I'm not sure you understand the weight and authority of Royal Commissions if you feel they they are "totally useless"

As for your last two sentences, I think it flags up an interesting point - you rightly say there is a party that is defined by a single issue. It then finds itself in administrative power but within the structure it seeks to leave. So, it has to govern and make policy but within constraints it is trying to change. Fascinating stuff.

Anyway, what's Richard Leonard's simple solution to health and social care?

Its simply a report that governments will either put into practice or reject. Government has the final say no matter what a commission might find.

Scottish Labour's Richard Leonard or Richard Leonard's Scottish Labour offers a freshness and opportunity to rid ourselves of the Snp who are obsessed with another breakaway referendum of which a similar one was rejected just a few years ago.

Only the Snp has a singular issue of soliciting a second breakaway referendum that Scotland rejected just a few years ago.

I'm getting the distinct impression your'e definitely an Snp nationalist.

:flag:

[Mibbes Aye]

Its simply a report that governments will either put into practice or reject. Government has the final say no matter what a commission might find.

Scottish Labour's Richard Leonard or Richard Leonard's Scottish Labour offers a freshness and opportunity to rid ourselves of the Snp who are obsessed with another breakaway referendum of which a similar one was rejected just a few years ago.

Only the Snp has a singular issue of soliciting a second breakaway referendum that Scotland rejected just a few years ago.

I'm getting the distinct impression your'e definitely an Snp nationalist.

:flag:

No offence, but I'm getting the distinct impression you're an idiot, who can't answer a simple question about Richard Leonard's plans in relation to health and social care, while weakly talking him up as a fresh and opportune alternative to Sturgeon.

As far as it goes, you should recognise the image below - it's the back of my party membership card. The front carries my name, my membership number, my CLP secretary's name and his/hers phone number and email, so obviously I'm not posting that.

But yeah, I'm no nationalist and any search of my previous posts would demonstrate that, I guess.

The funny thing is, you and I probably don't disagree on a lot of stuff. We seem to put it across a bit differently though.

Anyway, what is Richard Leonard's position on the massive crisis in health and social care?



https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=2d96ab0a68&view=fimg&th=163e6edbb6f43fbf&attid=0.1.1&disp=emb&attbid=ANGjdJ8BxFKmuiDctwC1aeLHJ_e8pxn8zV_m_d9akSq EsyZ6AIbsiNH8BaG--Uugy1yAuc5eaPanRlR63jYXz7GgyR4EU_0-l4tn9fB5Ne4UMd3PdC13_I7yTSXPdvY&sz=s0-l75-ft&ats=1528587871199&rm=163e6edbb6f43fbf&zw&atsh=1

[ballengeich]

I actually didn't say these specific words but if it suits your purpose carry on regardless.

:flag:


No offence, but I'm getting the distinct impression you're an idiot, who can't answer a simple question about Richard Leonard's plans in relation to health and social care, while weakly talking him up as a fresh and opportune alternative to Sturgeon.


That's my impression too. If Labour have answers to our problems they need articulate supporters.

[Tornadoes70]

No offence, but I'm getting the distinct impression you're an idiot, who can't answer a simple question about Richard Leonard's plans in relation to health and social care, while weakly talking him up as a fresh and opportune alternative to Sturgeon.

As far as it goes, you should recognise the image below - it's the back of my party membership card. The front carries my name, my membership number, my CLP secretary's name and his/hers phone number and email, so obviously I'm not posting that.

But yeah, I'm no nationalist and any search of my previous posts would demonstrate quite the opposite.

The funny thing is, you and I probably don't disagree on a lot of stuff. We seem to put it across a bit differently though.

Anyway, what is Richard Leonard's position on the massive crisis in health and social care?



https://mail.google.com/mail/u/0/?ui=2&ik=2d96ab0a68&view=fimg&th=163e6edbb6f43fbf&attid=0.1.1&disp=emb&attbid=ANGjdJ8BxFKmuiDctwC1aeLHJ_e8pxn8zV_m_d9akSq EsyZ6AIbsiNH8BaG--Uugy1yAuc5eaPanRlR63jYXz7GgyR4EU_0-l4tn9fB5Ne4UMd3PdC13_I7yTSXPdvY&sz=s0-l75-ft&ats=1528587871199&rm=163e6edbb6f43fbf&zw&atsh=1

You're undoubtedly a 'Nationalist' in my opinion and have resorted to insults instead of debate. I'm not an 'idiot' merely a Labour and Scottish Labour supporter and I note not once have you gave any supportive opinion towards either Labour or Scottish Labour.

Instead of calling for a change of governance in the face of the shocking performance from the Snp as per NHS Scotland you called for a 'Royal Commission'.

'Royal Commission' reports are completely useless unless adopted by the government and yet you call me an 'idiot'.

Undoubtedly you are an Snp 'Nationalist' and cannot accept faults in arguments without turning nasty and calling folk who politely argue their case an 'idiot'.

:flag:

[Mibbes Aye]

That's my impression too. If Labour have answers to our problems they need articulate supporters.

:agree:

Someone, anyone, needs to be making an articulate argument for how we deal with possibly the biggest social issue we are facing.

[Mibbes Aye]

You're undoubtedly a 'Nationalist' in my opinion and have resorted to insults instead of debate. I'm not an 'idiot' merely a Labour and Scottish Labour supporter and I note not once have you gave any supportive opinion towards either Labour or Scottish Labour.

Instead of calling for a change of governance in the face of the shocking performance from the Snp as per NHS Scotland you called for a 'Royal Commission'.

'Royal Commission' reports are completely useless unless adopted by the government and yet you call me an 'idiot'.

Undoubtedly you are an Snp 'Nationalist' and cannot accept faults in arguments without turning nasty and calling folk who politely argue their case an 'idiot'.

:flag:


I need to bookmark this as one of my most favourite-ever posts on .net, it's a belter :greengrin

I think I've asked this four or five times now, but what's Richard Leonard's solution to dealing with the crisis in health and social care?

[Tornadoes70]

:agree:

Someone, anyone, needs to be making an articulate argument for how we deal with possibly the biggest social issue we are facing.

Please don't try to debate the issue with 'Mibbes Aye' for if you disagree with him or her you'll be dispatched as being an 'idiot'. This despite the fact 'Mibbes Aye' argued for a 'Royal Commision' that is absolutely useless.

Its a 'Mibbes Naw' from me as per 'Mibbes Aye' Nationalistic tendencies.

:flag:

[Pete]

For all his faults, one thing Maybes aye isn’t is a nationalist.

As card carrying members, all we are in the grand scheme of things are brothers who have to iron out slight disagreements.

Income and wealth inequalities along with a poitical awakening among the young will ensure a Labour government.

With a bit of hard work, it’s in the bag! 👍🏼

[Tornadoes70]

For all his faults, one thing Maybes aye isn’t is a nationalist.

As card carrying members, all we are in the grand scheme of things are brothers who have to iron out slight disagreements.

Income and wealth inequalities along with a poitical awakening among the young will ensure a Labour government.

With a bit of hard work, it’s in the bag! ����

Could not agree more with your'e/our left wing Labour Scottish Labour vision Pete, Good man!

:flag:

[Moulin Yarns]

Its simply a report that governments will either put into practice or reject. Government has the final say no matter what a commission might find.

Scottish Labour's Richard Leonard or Richard Leonard's Scottish Labour offers a freshness and opportunity to rid ourselves of the Snp who are obsessed with another breakaway referendum of which a similar one was rejected just a few years ago.

Only the Snp has a singular issue of soliciting a second breakaway referendum that Scotland rejected just a few years ago.

I'm getting the distinct impression your'e definitely an Snp nationalist.

:flag:


The bit in bold. So does Ruth Davidson's Conservatives, Willie Rennie's Liberal democrats and Maggie Chapman and Patrick Harvie's Scottish Greens. However it will require more than SNP bashing by any one of those parties and their supporters/members to do it. It requires proper debate and constructive arguments, not just bash the government because you don't like them.

Now, what does Scottish Labour propose to do, if in power, to solve the crisis in the NHS?

[Hibrandenburg]

A thread about the future of the Labour Party condignly descends into a slagging match between Labour supporters. :greengrin

[Colr]

FFS!

You can trace Labours downfall all the way to picking the wrong Millaband.

Yes they are back to their roots, but the game has shifted. Combined with a hostile media, and they are facing an uphill battle. This all in the backdrop of a paralysed Tory minority Government.

J

Not only that but brexit is an effective front for a kyypto-fascist front and a lifelong leftie is being complicit in allowing it to control the policical agenda!

[Colr]

Yet it's funny that both May and Corbyn picked up on his policies as vote-winners.

Ed Miliband had the balls to publicly challenge Rupert Murdoch and Paul Dacre and the energy cartels. You will be hard-put to find an elected representative who has done similar.

And he stopped us going to war in Syria in the same way we did in Iraq, in tune with the majority of the public.

This will maybe find negative responses but he was miles ahead of May or Corbyn.

Fair comment. He was still the wrong leader but even at that he was way ahead of that pair of ****s

[RyeSloan]

The bit in bold. So does Ruth Davidson's Conservatives, Willie Rennie's Liberal democrats and Maggie Chapman and Patrick Harvie's Scottish Greens. However it will require more than SNP bashing by any one of those parties and their supporters/members to do it. It requires proper debate and constructive arguments, not just bash the government because you don't like them.

Now, what does Scottish Labour propose to do, if in power, to solve the crisis in the NHS?

As it’s pretty clear that all you’ll get back is more tub thumping rhetoric rather than anything constructive or informative I thought I would have a wee look on Scottish Labour website on his behalf:

https://scottishlabour.org.uk/where-we-stand/manifesto/a-healthier-scotland/

And amazingly what I found was more tub thumping rhetoric!

Make the rich pay more

Tax more those that dare to take insurance that would reduce the load on the NHS

Tax even more (handily described as a ‘big boost’)

Then spend even more

Do lots of supporting of things

Have a commission (of course!)

And most importantly of all reintroduce collective bargaining


After reading that list I’ve no idea why Ig couldn’t come up with any definitive policies and be able to articulate the detailed measures and steps that Labour will take 🤪

[Hibbyradge]

the good Scottish folk

the good folk of Scotland

Gotta love a cliché.

It's the bad folk of Scotland I feel sorry for.

[Smartie]

A thread about the future of the Labour Party condignly descends into a slagging match between Labour supporters. :greengrin

It is fairly apt, as the real enemy of the 2 main parties nowadays seems to be themselves rather than each other.

[Tornadoes70]

My general point still stands in that Scottish Labour's Richard Leonard has been holding the Snp to account at Holyrood by putting serious questions to them given the almighty mess the Snp and their hapless Shona Robison are making of NHS Scotland in particular.

The Snp are a shambles in my opinion and the good folk of Scotland deserve so much better and with Richard Leonard's Scottish Labour looking ever more impressive every week that goes by we should be looking to significantly increase our share of the votes in future elections.

:flag:

[Moulin Yarns]

My general point still stands in that Scottish Labour's Richard Leonard has been holding the Snp to account at Holyrood by putting serious questions to them given the almighty mess the Snp and their hapless Shona Robison are making of NHS Scotland in particular.

The Snp are a shambles in my opinion and the good folk of Scotland deserve so much better and with Richard Leonard's Scottish Labour looking ever more impressive every week that goes by we should be looking to significantly increase our share of the votes in future elections.

:flag:


Well, the only way to answer you is in a way that you will understand.



BOLLOX

[CropleyWasGod]

My general point still stands in that Scottish Labour's Richard Leonard has been holding the Snp to account at Holyrood by putting serious questions to them given the almighty mess the Snp and their hapless Shona Robison are making of NHS Scotland in particular.

The Snp are a shambles in my opinion and the good folk of Scotland deserve so much better and with Richard Leonard's Scottish Labour looking ever more impressive every week that goes by we should be looking to significantly increase our share of the votes in future elections.

:flag:How does that square with the latest opinion poll, in which support for Labour in Scotland has fallen?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[McD]

Please don't try to debate the issue with 'Mibbes Aye' for if you disagree with him or her you'll be dispatched as being an 'idiot'. This despite the fact 'Mibbes Aye' argued for a 'Royal Commision' that is absolutely useless.

Its a 'Mibbes Naw' from me as per 'Mibbes Aye' Nationalistic tendencies.

:flag:


You haven't been debating though.

You’ve made the same points over and over, like a broken record. You’ve refused to answer the question put to you, and just repeated the same points again and again.

you're criticising Mibbes Aye for calling you an idiot, which only came AFTER you started calling him a nationalist (which in and of itself isn’t anything concerning, but in this instance was clearly intended as an insult).

its rather ironic that you have criticised the SNP as being single issue, when the only thing you’ve said is that Scottish Labour is the way to go, and Leonard is the person to lead that. Over and over and over. Your single issue.


no doubt you’ll be telling me I’m a nationalist as well.

[One Day Soon]

What a spectacular thread. Mibbes is a Nat? :faf:

I'm absolutely loving the relentless use of the the power of assertion as an attempted means to lever up the credibility of Scottish Labour. Richard Leonard IS the messiah, he just IS!

FFS, Sturgeon did more harm to herself in a single Channel 4 interview this weekend than Leonard has managed in months of trying.

This has got to be the most debased cabal of political leaders on both sides of the border in living memory. None of them with any clue how to address the issues we face, all of them drawn into the twin sinkholes of pointless constitutional politics in Scotland and the UK and two failing governments untouched by an opposition so ludicrous/irrelevant that they make the out of their depth May and Sturgeon seem credible by comparison.

[Tornadoes70]

You haven't been debating though.

You’ve made the same points over and over, like a broken record. You’ve refused to answer the question put to you, and just repeated the same points again and again.

you're criticising Mibbes Aye for calling you an idiot, which only came AFTER you started calling him a nationalist (which in and of itself isn’t anything concerning, but in this instance was clearly intended as an insult).

its rather ironic that you have criticised the SNP as being single issue, when the only thing you’ve said is that Scottish Labour is the way to go, and Leonard is the person to lead that. Over and over and over. Your single issue.


no doubt you’ll be telling me I’m a nationalist as well.

The Snp is failing Scotland and the only credible party to replace it is Richard Leonard's Scottish Labour Party. If you listen to Mr Leonard's probing questions at First Minister's Questions as I do you would realise he is rightly holding the increasingly incompetent Snp to account and he himself is demonstrating the leadership Scottish Labour has required.

I'm certain Scottish Labour's share of the vote and seats will be significantly boosted at future elections. The Snp are on the slide and appearing divided due to their desperation to hold another breakaway vote while Scottish Labour are being led by a leader who is organising the party into an electable one.

Scottish Labour supporters have the right to begin to feel positive about their party once more in my opinion.

:flag:

[CropleyWasGod]

The Snp is failing Scotland and the only credible party to replace it is Richard Leonard's Scottish Labour Party. If you listen to Mr Leonard's probing questions at First Minister's Questions as I do you would realise he is rightly holding the increasingly incompetent Snp to account and he himself is demonstrating the leadership Scottish Labour has required.

I'm certain Scottish Labour's share of the vote and seats will be significantly boosted at future elections. The Snp are on the slide and appearing divided due to their desperation to hold another breakaway vote while Scottish Labour are being led by a leader who is organising the party into an electable one.

Scottish Labour supporters have the right to begin to feel positive about their party once more in my opinion.

:flag:The opinion polls suggest differently. Why do you think that is?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[weecounty hibby]

The opinion polls suggest differently. Why do you think that is?

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Maybe because asking probing questions isn't the same as having a positive policy that will make any difference. All about shouting negativity and hoping folk think that means you must have a policy that's different. Happens way too often in politics at the moment.

[grunt]

The Snp is failing Scotland and the only credible party to replace it is Richard Leonard's Scottish Labour Party. If you listen to Mr Leonard's probing questions at First Minister's Questions as I do you would realise he is rightly holding the increasingly incompetent Snp to account and he himself is demonstrating the leadership Scottish Labour has required.
His questions are all very well. But when Sturgeon replies and beats him into the ground he has nowhere to go. being in opposition must be the easiest job in the world, but Leonard fails even at that.

[Tornadoes70]

Richard Leonard's Scottish Labour Party is holding the increasingly tired looking and incompetent Snp goverment to account while at the same time being a party that fights inequality, fights for social justice, fights against poverty among many other things and would have replaced such a useless Health Minister that is the Snp's Shona Robison some time ago because we care very deeply about the NHS.

Sturgeon's refusal to remove the hapless Shona Robison is disastrous and shows a weakness or a contempt by Sturgeon for the Scottish folk who depend upon NHS Scotland.

If you listen to Scottish Labour leader Richard Leonard as I do more folk would realise he's an impressive leader and human being with a very good cv who can take Scotland forward and build a Scottish Labour left wing, compassionate, tolerant, pragmatic and successful nation.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

[grunt]

Richard Leonard's Scottish Labour Party is holding the increasingly tired looking and incompetent Snp goverment to account while at the same time being a party that fights inequality, fights for social justice, fights against poverty among many other things and would have replaced such a useless Health Minister that is the Snp's Shona Robison some time ago because we care very deeply about the NHS.
Perspective is a wonderful thing, to be sure.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-rise-in-support-for-snp-could-lead-to-seats-gain-1-4751338



The YouGov survey for The Times Scotland found the Scottish Conservatives have retaken second place on 27 per cent - up 4 per cent from the last poll - while Labour have dropped 5 per cent to 23 per cent in Westminster voting intentions.

[JeMeSouviens]

Are you suggesting I'm an SNP supporter?

Ronaldo7 and JMS will be pissing themselves laughing :greengrin

Best. Thread. Ever.

[CropleyWasGod]

Perspective is a wonderful thing, to be sure.

https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/poll-rise-in-support-for-snp-could-lead-to-seats-gain-1-4751338So is the ability to say the same thing over and over, shifting the words around a bit.

Actually.... It isn't.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[weecounty hibby]

Richard Leonard's Scottish Labour Party is holding the increasingly tired looking and incompetent Snp goverment to account while at the same time being a party that fights inequality, fights for social justice, fights against poverty among many other things and would have replaced such a useless Health Minister that is the Snp's Shona Robison some time ago because we care very deeply about the NHS.

Sturgeon's refusal to remove the hapless Shona Robison is disastrous and shows a weakness or a contempt by Sturgeon for the Scottish folk who depend upon NHS Scotland.

If you listen to Scottish Labour leader Richard Leonard as I do more folk would realise he's an impressive leader and human being with a very good cv who can take Scotland forward and build a Scottish Labour left wing, compassionate, tolerant, pragmatic and successful nation.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

You're like a broken record. Can you let us in on the revolutionary policies that you seem to have been shown in secret. You are making him out to be the new Keir Hardie so I really want to read these policies.it would be good if you actually showed them to more People and the latest polls might be turned around

[CropleyWasGod]

You're like a broken record. Can you let us in on the revolutionary policies that you seem to have been shown in secret. You are making him out to be the new Keir Hardie so I really want to read these policies.it would be good if you actually showed them to more People and the latest polls might be turned aroundHardy [emoji6]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-labour-keir-hardy-howler-12157496

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[grunt]

Hardy [emoji6]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/scottish-labour-keir-hardy-howler-12157496

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk
Kiss me.

[CropleyWasGod]

.

[Tornadoes70]

So is the ability to say the same thing over and over, shifting the words around a bit.

Actually.... It isn't.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Wouldn't you agree its actually a good thing that there's at least one vocal Labour supporter extolling good vibes for Scottish Labour other than the usual suspect Snp nats who're on here non stop expressing nothing but grumbles when anyone who disagrees with them posts on here?

I've been interested in politics since childhood and I genuinely sense Richard Leonard is growing into being Scottish Labour's leader and is making a very good job of holding the jaded looking and increasingly incompetent Snp to account.

As a lifelong Labour supporter I'm once more becoming enthusiastic about the party after having taken the time to listen to Mr Leonard and the quite pathetic responses from Sturgeon's Snp at First Minister's Question Time.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

[CropleyWasGod]

Wouldn't you agree its actually a good thing that there's at least one vocal Labour supporter extolling good vibes for Scottish Labour other than the usual suspect Snp nats who're on here non stop expressing nothing but grumbles when anyone who disagrees with them posts on here?

I've been interested in politics since childhood and I genuinely sense Richard Leonard is growing into being Scottish Labour's leader and is making a very good job of holding the jaded looking and increasingly incompetent Snp to account.

As a lifelong Labour supporter I'm once more becoming enthusiastic about the party after having taken the time to listen to Mr Leonard and the quite pathetic responses from Sturgeon's Snp at First Minister's Question Time.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:Before I answer that question, there are a few others that have been patiently waiting in line to be answered......

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[weecounty hibby]

Wouldn't you agree its actually a good thing that there's at least one vocal Labour supporter extolling good vibes for Scottish Labour other than the usual suspect Snp nats who're on here non stop expressing nothing but grumbles when anyone who disagrees with them posts on here?

I've been interested in politics since childhood and I genuinely sense Richard Leonard is growing into being Scottish Labour's leader and is making a very good job of holding the jaded looking and increasingly incompetent Snp to account.

As a lifelong Labour supporter I'm once more becoming enthusiastic about the party after having taken the time to listen to Mr Leonard and the quite pathetic responses from Sturgeon's Snp at First Minister's Question Time.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:
Yip, so you keep saying over and over and over again. As asked by me and others on the thread can you let us in on the policies that give you these good vibes. Asking questions doesn't mean you are actually holding anyone to account.

[Tornadoes70]

Before I answer that question, there are a few others that have been patiently waiting in line to be answered......

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

An Snp nat dictatorship inquisition?

Think I'll give that a decided miss and concentrate on extolling the positive vibes that's becoming ever more prevalent from Scottish Labour!

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

[weecounty hibby]

An Snp nat dictatorship inquisition?

Think I'll give that a decided miss and concentrate on extolling the positive vibes that's becoming ever more prevalent from Scottish Labour!

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

So Richard Leonard is great because he asks questions. Nicola Sturgeons government is a shambles because of her answers to these questions. You are being ask questions and your answers are pretty rotten to be honest. Would it be unfair to say you were a shambles?
I'll probably give this particular thread a miss for a wee while as it seems to be going round in circles

[Tornadoes70]

So Richard Leonard is great because he asks questions. Nicola Sturgeons government is a shambles because of her answers to these questions. You are being ask questions and your answers are pretty rotten to be honest. Would it be unfair to say you were a shambles?
I'll probably give this particular thread a miss for a wee while as it seems to be going round in circles

I would give it a miss for a good while if I was you as that's a bit below the belt and descending into personal insults when I'm on a Labour thread being positive about Labour and its Scottish leader Richard Leonard.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

[CropleyWasGod]

An Snp nat dictatorship inquisition?

Think I'll give that a decided miss and concentrate on extolling the positive vibes that's becoming ever more prevalent from Scottish Labour!

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:I'm not an SNP voter. So maybe you can answer my question. [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[weecounty hibby]

I'm not an SNP voter. So maybe you can answer my question. [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

You and I and everyone else reading this thread know how that one is going to go!

[weecounty hibby]

I would give it a miss for a good while if I was you as that's a bit below the belt and descending into personal insults when I'm on a Labour thread being positive about Labour and its Scottish leader Richard Leonard.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

Aw didums, I asked if given your statement about the Scottish government being a shambles would it be a fair analogy given your lack of being able to answer direct questions to say the same about you. It was a question that you seem to have had no problem answering, could you answer some of the others as well please

[Tornadoes70]

I'm not an SNP voter. So maybe you can answer my question. [emoji6]

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

As I posted previously regarding deterioration into personal insults its mostly best to avoid possible confrontational direct questions.

I'm quite certain you will have deduced from my posts on a Labour thread that I'm all about being enthusiastic about the Labour party I've supported since childhood and my enthusiasm has been engaged once more after listening to Scottish Labour leader Richard Leonard and the pathetic responses in reply from Sturgeon's Snp.

Feel free to state your own positive or negative case regarding whichever party it is you support or rubbish mine but politics is not always about answering direct questions.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

[weecounty hibby]

As I posted previously regarding deterioration into personal insults its mostly best to avoid possible confrontational direct questions.

I'm quite certain you will have deduced from my posts on a Labour thread that I'm all about being enthusiastic about the Labour party I've supported since childhood and my enthusiasm has been engaged once more after listening to Scottish Labour leader Richard Leonard and the pathetic responses in reply from Sturgeon's Snp.

Feel free to state your own positive or negative case regarding whichever party it is you support or rubbish mine but politics is not always about answering direct questions.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

And ducked the question yet again. Bravo for being so single minded.

[Tornadoes70]

Aw didums, I asked if given your statement about the Scottish government being a shambles would it be a fair analogy given your lack of being able to answer direct questions to say the same about you. It was a question that you seem to have had no problem answering, could you answer some of the others as well please

I will not be replying to any of your posts from now on as per the pathetic personal insult. If you can't be civil then best avoided.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

[Hibrandenburg]

As I posted previously regarding deterioration into personal insults its mostly best to avoid possible confrontational direct questions.

I'm quite certain you will have deduced from my posts on a Labour thread that I'm all about being enthusiastic about the Labour party I've supported since childhood and my enthusiasm has been engaged once more after listening to Scottish Labour leader Richard Leonard and the pathetic responses in reply from Sturgeon's Snp.

Feel free to state your own positive or negative case regarding whichever party it is you support or rubbish mine but politics is not always about answering direct questions.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

The phrase "Happy Clapper" springs to mind.

[CropleyWasGod]

As I posted previously regarding deterioration into personal insults its mostly best to avoid possible confrontational direct questions.

I'm quite certain you will have deduced from my posts on a Labour thread that I'm all about being enthusiastic about the Labour party I've supported since childhood and my enthusiasm has been engaged once more after listening to Scottish Labour leader Richard Leonard and the pathetic responses in reply from Sturgeon's Snp.

Feel free to state your own positive or negative case regarding whichever party it is you support or rubbish mine but politics is not always about answering direct questions.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

I'll deduce from that, then, that you have no idea why Leonard's short leadership of the party has resulted in a reduction in support for Labour, and an increase in support for the SNP.

As for your last sentence, it's patronising ***** like that that puts people off politics, and politicians of all colours.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[weecounty hibby]

I will not be replying to any of your posts from now on as per the pathetic personal insult. If you can't be civil then best avoided.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:
To be honest you weren't really replying anyway. Pointless asking any questions as you don't seem to like it and then go all huffy when asked if your idea of a shambles could be used in describing your lack of an answer to any posters who date to question you

[Tornadoes70]

I'll deduce from that, then, that you have no idea why Leonard's short leadership of the party has resulted in a reduction in support for Labour, and an increase in support for the SNP.

As for your last sentence, it's patronising ***** like that that puts people off politics, and politicians of all colours.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

The Irony is pulsating.

I've never seen you post anything about the party of your choice!

At least I'm posting on a thread being positive about the subject matter!

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

[CropleyWasGod]

The Irony is pulsating.

I've never seen you post anything about the party of your choice!

At least I'm posting on a thread being positive about the subject matter!

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

I don't currently have a party of choice. My vote is up for grabs. Hence my question.

However, if your attitude to potential voters is typical of Richard "Keir Hardy" Leonard's party, I'm not sure that you will be getting much positive movement.

Thankfully, I know enough Labour supporters to know that it's not.



Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Hibbyradge]

As I posted previously regarding deterioration into personal insults its mostly best to avoid possible confrontational direct questions.

I'm quite certain you will have deduced from my posts on a Labour thread that I'm all about being enthusiastic about the Labour party I've supported since childhood and my enthusiasm has been engaged once more after listening to Scottish Labour leader Richard Leonard and the pathetic responses in reply from Sturgeon's Snp.

Feel free to state your own positive or negative case regarding whichever party it is you support or rubbish mine but politics is not always about answering direct questions.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

It's like the Stepford Wives with you. Robotically repeating stock phrases over and over and avoiding any troublesome questions. :hilarious

I'm not an SNP votter, I live in England so that's not an option, but your posts would drive me in that direction.

[Tornadoes70]

It's like the Stepford Wives with you. Robotically repeating stock phrases over and over and avoiding any troublesome questions. :hilarious:

I'm not an SNP votter, I live in England so that's not an option, but your posts would drive me in that direction.

Well here's two of them for you just because you've taken the time to post against my positivity for Scottish Labour!

The Snp appear very tired and increasingly incompetent.

Vote Scottish Labour and fight against inequality, fight against poverty and fight for social justice!

Let's vote in a real socialist government who will fight for decent benefits, the NHS and equality!

Vote Labour!

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

[JeMeSouviens]

It's like the Stepford Wives with you. Robotically repeating stock phrases over and over and avoiding any troublesome questions. :hilarious

I'm not an SNP votter, I live in England so that's not an option, but your posts would drive me in that direction.

The best thing for people who live in England is Richard Scottish’s Leonard Labour! :agree:

[Mibbes Aye]

The best thing for people who live in England is Richard Scottish’s Leonard Labour! :agree:

:greengrin

[One Day Soon]

The Irony is pulsating.

I've never seen you post anything about the party of your choice!

At least I'm posting on a thread being positive about the subject matter!

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:


I can't decide if I think you are:

a) Richard Leonard

or

b) An algorithm posting automated responses

[Tornadoes70]

The best thing for people who live in England is Richard Scottish’s Leonard Labour! :agree:

An entirely predictable response from the jaded Snp supporters who just cannot help themselves by invading the subject matter of Scottish Labour when a Scottish Labour poster reports positivity.

if only Sturgeon had replaced the utterly hopeless Shona Robison instead of demonstrating extreme weakness or contempt for the Scottish folk. Inept and incompetent leadership from Sturgeon in stark contrast to Scottish Labour's Richard Leonard whose becoming Scotland's real leader when holding the Snp to account and whose cv emanates compassion for the disabled and those on benefits, fights for social justice, fights against poverty and against inequality among many other very worthwhile attributes.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

[Mibbes Aye]

The best thing for people who live in England is Richard Scottish’s Leonard Labour! :agree:


:greengrin

I take that back.

It turns out you're jaded and and invading someone else's subject matter.

Thank goodness I'm backing Richard Labour's Scottish Leonard :agree:

[Tornadoes70]

I can't decide if I think you are:

a) Richard Leonard

or

b) An algorithm posting automated responses

A nonsensical post in my opinion neither stating their case or anything really.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

[Hibbyradge]

Well here's two of them for you just because you've taken the time to post against my positivity for Scottish Labour!

The Snp appear very tired and increasingly incompetent.

Vote Scottish Labour and fight against inequality, fight against poverty and fight for social justice!

Let's vote in a real socialist government who will fight for decent benefits, the NHS and equality!

Vote Labour!

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

That's 5 not 2.

Why are Labour losing support in the polls?

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

An entirely predictable response from the jaded Snp supporters who just cannot help themselves by invading the subject matter of Scottish Labour when a Scottish Labour poster reports positivity.

if only Sturgeon had replaced the utterly hopeless Shona Robison instead of demonstrating extreme weakness or contempt for the Scottish folk. Inept and incompetent leadership from Sturgeon in stark contrast to Scottish Labour's Richard Leonard whose becoming Scotland's real leader when holding the Snp to account and whose cv emanates compassion for the disabled and those on benefits, fights for social justice, fights against poverty and against inequality among many other very worthwhile attributes.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

I agree with you to an extent that the SNP after ten years in power do seem a little jaded - and that Robison is a major weak spot for Sturgeon.

However... the SNP are still VERY popular, particularly for a party that has been in office for so long - any party of govt will lose it's shine after a decade as the inevitable attrition of being in govt when things go wrong (ie the NHS) take their toll.

But they are not some lame duck govt killing time until they inevitably lose - their polling is still very good, and this is at least in part due to the lack of credible alternatives. The Tories are doing well, relatively, but probably have a natural ceiling that they are at, and have a front bench team with zero recognition apart from Davidson.

Labour are still a listless party going nowhere, and Leonard could walk down princes st on a Saturday afternoon and barely be recognised- he is a complete nonentity who is apeing a leader in London who has proved to be unable to unseat a govt that is far less competent than the SNP govt here.

Leonard will struggle to regain second place, never mind win a Holyrood election. The only thing that MIGHT save him is a coalition.

When will you hard left Labour guys accept that elections are won from the centre, and socialism is a discredited ideology that hasn't come close to winning an election in the UK for nigh on 40 years?

Leonard is a political never-has-been, with a busted ideology, leading a divided and listless party.

Still...at least we know that Labour Live will sell one more ticket. Just another 30-odd thousand to go...

[JeMeSouviens]

I take that back.

It turns out you're jaded and and invading someone else's subject matter.

Thank goodness I'm backing Richard Labour's Scottish Leonard :agree:

You've seen right through me. :boo hoo:

But not to worry, that wily old Scottish Leopard, Richard the Labourheart, will sort us both out!

[CropleyWasGod]

That's 5 not 2.

Why are Labour losing support in the polls?

Politics is not always about answering direct questions.

[Hibbyradge]

Politics is not always about answering awkward questions.

Ftfy.

[Hibbyradge]

Politics is not always about answering direct questions.

Maybe I'll try the indirect approach.

"If I was to ask the good people of Scotland why Richard Leotard's Scottish Labour was losing support in the polls, what do you think they might say?"

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe I'll try the indirect approach.

"If I was to ask the good people of Scotland why Richard Leotard's Scottish Labour was losing support in the polls, what do you think they might say?"

What the ****ing **** are you ****ing asking me for?

[Hibbyradge]

What the ****ing **** are you ****ing asking me for?

Retain a civil tongue in your head and answer the question.

Whoever you are.

[CropleyWasGod]

Retain a civil tongue in your head and answer the question.

Whoever you are.

Keir, sorry, ...Tom... Hardy.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/500040364860280971/?lp=true

[Hibbyradge]

Keir, sorry, ...Tom... Hardy.

https://www.pinterest.co.uk/pin/500040364860280971/?lp=true

Reported

[marinello59]

Well here's two of them for you just because you've taken the time to post against my positivity for Scottish Labour!

The Snp appear very tired and increasingly incompetent.

Vote Scottish Labour and fight against inequality, fight against poverty and fight for social justice!

Let's vote in a real socialist government who will fight for decent benefits, the NHS and equality!

Vote Labour!

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

Liberation for Tooting.

[Moulin Yarns]

Liberation for Tooting.

That is just an affront.

[CropleyWasGod]

That is just an affront.

:agree:

He's a Wolfie in Smith's clothing.

[Stranraer]

An entirely predictable response from the jaded Snp supporters who just cannot help themselves by invading the subject matter of Scottish Labour when a Scottish Labour poster reports positivity.

if only Sturgeon had replaced the utterly hopeless Shona Robison instead of demonstrating extreme weakness or contempt for the Scottish folk. Inept and incompetent leadership from Sturgeon in stark contrast to Scottish Labour's Richard Leonard whose becoming Scotland's real leader when holding the Snp to account and whose cv emanates compassion for the disabled and those on benefits, fights for social justice, fights against poverty and against inequality among many other very worthwhile attributes.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

Labour haven't been a progressive party since the early 1960's so no, I won't be backing them.

[Colr]

Labour haven't been a progressive party since the early 1960's so no, I won't be backing them.

What do you mean by “progressive”?

[grunt]

What do you mean by “progressive”?

https://glidemagazine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/03/Tales-Yes-Cover.jpg

[Mibbes Aye]

Labour haven't been a progressive party since the early 1960's so no, I won't be backing them.

Starter for ten - legislating against racial and sexual discrimination and introducing protection for workers and the public through the Health and Safety at Work Act.

They were all mid-1970s and it's hard if not impossible to say they weren't progressive.

The Open University was mid to late 60s and that's perhaps the epitome of progressive policymaking.

There were countless other progressive policies under Wilson and Callaghan.

And then under New Labour, I think someone listed them all recently in a "What did the Romans ever do for us?"-style post. We can maybe go with the minimum wage, child and pensioner tax credits, the Human Rights Act and the introduction of civil partnerships for progressive starters, eh?

And before the whataboutery kicks in, yes, Labour governments have made mistakes and bad policy decisions too.

But to say they've not been progressive simply doesn't stand up.

[McD]

Richard Leonard's Scottish Labour Party is holding the increasingly tired looking and incompetent Snp goverment to account while at the same time being a party that fights inequality, fights for social justice, fights against poverty among many other things and would have replaced such a useless Health Minister that is the Snp's Shona Robison some time ago because we care very deeply about the NHS.

Sturgeon's refusal to remove the hapless Shona Robison is disastrous and shows a weakness or a contempt by Sturgeon for the Scottish folk who depend upon NHS Scotland.

If you listen to Scottish Labour leader Richard Leonard as I do more folk would realise he's an impressive leader and human being with a very good cv who can take Scotland forward and build a Scottish Labour left wing, compassionate, tolerant, pragmatic and successful nation.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:




can you give some examples of these please?

[ronaldo7]

can you give some examples of these please?

They fought the women in Glasgow council in their fight for equal pay for years. They even took some of them to court. For the few, not the many 👎🙅

[grunt]

Labour abstaining from the vote on the devolution amendments in Westminster.
So this is what the Labour Party think of devolution - standing idly by while previously devolved powers are removed by the Conservatives.
I hope the Scottish electorate remembers this at the next elections.

[snooky]

Politics is always about not answering direct questions.


Ftfy.

FTF(both of)Y :wink:

[GlesgaeHibby]

Labour abstaining from the vote on the devolution amendments in Westminster.
So this is what the Labour Party think of devolution - standing idly by while previously devolved powers are removed by the Conservatives.
I hope the Scottish electorate remembers this at the next elections.

Just when you think they can't sink any further. I genuinely haven't a clue what purpose the Labour party has any more, because we'd be as well saving the salaries of their 200 odd MPs at Westminster because as the main opposition they achieve/do absolutely nothing. I almost hate them as much the tories.

[JeMeSouviens]

Labour abstaining from the vote on the devolution amendments in Westminster.
So this is what the Labour Party think of devolution - standing idly by while previously devolved powers are removed by the Conservatives.
I hope the Scottish electorate remembers this at the next elections.

Bizarre when Labour at Holyrood (who’s their leader again? :wink:) voted to reject Uk gov seizing powers in devolved areas.

[weecounty hibby]

Bizarre when Labour at Holyrood (who’s their leader again? :wink:) voted to reject Uk gov seizing powers in devolved areas.

It proves that the UK Labour party are just like the Tories and don't care one little bit for Scotland. Even when Scottish Labour can see the benefits for Scotland the big boys down south pull rank

[ronaldo7]

Just when you think they can't sink any further. I genuinely haven't a clue what purpose the Labour party has any more, because we'd be as well saving the salaries of their 200 odd MPs at Westminster because as the main opposition they achieve/do absolutely nothing. I almost hate them as much the tories.

That's the radical, progressive, Jeremy and co, giving Theresa a helping hand.

Labstaining again.

[snooky]

Just when you think they can't sink any further. I genuinely haven't a clue what purpose the Labour party has any more, because we'd be as well saving the salaries of their 200 odd MPs at Westminster because as the main opposition they achieve/do absolutely nothing. I almost hate them as much the tories.

IMO, these days they are actually worse than the Tories. At least you know what you're up against and what to expect from the Con-men. The old Lab guard would be appalled if they could see the total lack of spine in Labour these days. A total wimp of a Party. The Tories have been lying on the rack for some time and all Labour can do is lick their wounds for them. Unbelievable scenario.

[Mibbes Aye]

Labour abstaining from the vote on the devolution amendments in Westminster.
So this is what the Labour Party think of devolution - standing idly by while previously devolved powers are removed by the Conservatives.
I hope the Scottish electorate remembers this at the next elections.

Makes you wonder which UK government legislated for devolution in the first place.......

[grunt]

Makes you wonder which UK government legislated for devolution in the first place.......

I’m not sure what point you are making.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

[Hibrandenburg]

Makes you wonder which UK government legislated for devolution in the first place.......


Because it suited them at the time. Now they're even going against the wishes of their own party in that devolved parliament and the mask has slipped showing their true contempt of the Scottish people. But hey ho, there's no homogenous Scottish interest anyway so what does it matter what the people there think anyway.

[Mibbes Aye]

Because it suited them at the time. Now they're even going against the wishes of their own party in that devolved parliament and the mask has slipped showing their true contempt of the Scottish people. But hey ho, there's no homogenous Scottish interest anyway so what does it matter what the people there think anyway.

Oh please, "...true contempt", really?

I'm no fan of Corbyn or his acolytes, as has been made clear and I'm obviously not a May fan but it's infantile to sloganise about people having 'true contempt' for other people.

Most people are in politics because they believe in a way of making things better. Depending on their viewpoint there's room for massive disagreement about how that's achieved.

Talking about people disguising a 'true contempt for the Scottish people' takes us right back to the referendum result when you were furious that people could have dared vote 'No' and were obviously stupid, wrong or manipulated.

They weren't. They just didn't buy into your way of thinking. Deal with it.

[One Day Soon]

When's the Indyref2? Asking for a humpty, disappointed friend. :wink:

[JeMeSouviens]

Makes you wonder which UK government legislated for devolution in the first place.......

The one that wanted to kill nationalism stone dead?

Didn’t get rid of nationalistic tendencies though, eh? :wink:

[Mibbes Aye]

The one that wanted to kill nationalism stone dead?

Didn’t get rid of nationalistic tendencies though, eh? :wink:

Nationalism never disappears but always appeals to the weak-minded and resentful :wink:

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The one that wanted to kill nationalism stone dead?

Didn’t get rid of nationalistic tendencies though, eh? :wink:

Ha ha, I do still love that quote, so descriptive of the arrogance and complacency with which Labour used to deal with scotland.

I believe though at the time it was an internal sop to Donald Dewar- Blair was apparently very reluctant, maybe he was a touch more prescient than Robertson...

[Hibrandenburg]

Oh please, "...true contempt", really?

I'm no fan of Corbyn or his acolytes, as has been made clear and I'm obviously not a May fan but it's infantile to sloganise about people having 'true contempt' for other people.

Most people are in politics because they believe in a way of making things better. Depending on their viewpoint there's room for massive disagreement about how that's achieved.

Talking about people disguising a 'true contempt for the Scottish people' takes us right back to the referendum result when you were furious that people could have dared vote 'No' and were obviously stupid, wrong or manipulated.

They weren't. They just didn't buy into your way of thinking. Deal with it.

I'm fine with contempt. An antonym of contempt is respect and the Westminster Labour overlords showed the opinion of their Scottish counterparts none. Semantics doesn't change that.

[Mibbes Aye]

I'm fine with contempt. An antonym of contempt is respect and the Westminster Labour overlords showed the opinion of their Scottish counterparts none. Semantics doesn't change that.

“Westminster overlords”, come on, please.

if you weren’t trying so hard iwith the cartoon language it would maybe be more convincing.

You were exactly the same after the referendum, torn between calling the majority of the Scottish electorate victims or cowards.

They didn’t agree with you and didnt buy your notion of being hard done by, or oppressed. They exercised choice. Deal with it.

[One Day Soon]

“Westminster overlords”, come on, please.

if you weren’t trying so hard iwith the cartoon language it would maybe be more convincing.

You were exactly the same after the referendum, torn between calling the majority of the Scottish electorate victims or cowards.

They didn’t agree with you and didnt buy your notion of being hard done by, or oppressed. They exercised choice. Deal with it.


I for one welcome our new alien/Labour/non-Awesome/overlords.

[snooky]

Nationalism never disappears but always appeals to the weak-minded and resentful :wink:

Who does freedom as opposed to suppression appeal to then? Just wondering. :wink:

[Tornadoes70]

Watching Sturgeon's performances at First Minister's Questions is very sore to bear. She sounds negative, always ultra defensive, body language is off putting and extremely non inspiring. Tired and needs replaced as Scotland deserves so much better.

On the other hand Scottish Labour sounds sharp and focused.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

[Hibbyradge]

Watching Sturgeon's performances at First Minister's Questions is very sore to bear. She sounds negative, always ultra defensive, body language is off putting and extremely non inspiring. Tired and needs replaced as Scotland deserves so much better.

On the other hand Scottish Labour sounds sharp and focused.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

Any ideas as to why the energetic and vibrant Scottish Labour party are losing opinion poll ratings compared to the tired and uninspiring SNP?

[Moulin Yarns]

Watching Sturgeon's performances at First Minister's Questions is very sore to bear. She sounds negative, always ultra defensive, body language is off putting and extremely non inspiring. Tired and needs replaced as Scotland deserves so much better.

On the other hand Scottish Labour sounds sharp and focused.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:



Was it Scottish Labour that questioned the first minister on the Growth Commission at FMQ?

[JeMeSouviens]

Any ideas as to why the energetic and vibrant Scottish Labour party are losing opinion poll ratings compared to the tired and uninspiring SNP?

Interesting snippet from the latest Yougov poll. When asked "Do you think that Richard Leonard is doing well or badly as leader of the Scottish Labour party?" 57% *of Labour voters* said "Don't know".

[CropleyWasGod]

Interesting snippet from the latest Yougov poll. When asked "Do you think that Richard Leonard is doing well or badly as leader of the Scottish Labour party?" 57% *of Labour voters* said "Don't know".

24% said "Who?"

[ronaldo7]

Watching Sturgeon's performances at First Minister's Questions is very sore to bear. She sounds negative, always ultra defensive, body language is off putting and extremely non inspiring. Tired and needs replaced as Scotland deserves so much better.

On the other hand Scottish Labour sounds sharp and focused.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

I bet you were gutted when she mentioned another 5,000 people joining up with the SNP. 🍻

[CropleyWasGod]

Watching Sturgeon's performances at First Minister's Questions is very sore to bear. She sounds negative, always ultra defensive, body language is off putting and extremely non inspiring. Tired and needs replaced as Scotland deserves so much better.

On the other hand Scottish Labour sounds sharp and focused.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

To be fair, Scottish Labour would be a better bet than the "sit on our hands" Westminster version. What was their justification for abstaining earlier this week?

And, do you think it would be better for all if there was a separate party in Scotland?

[One Day Soon]

Interesting snippet from the latest Yougov poll. When asked "Do you think that Richard Leonard is doing well or badly as leader of the Scottish Labour party?" 57% *of Labour voters* said "Don't know".

That's quite surprising. I 'd have thought that about that percentage would have said "Who?"

[Scotty Leither]

That's quite surprising. I 'd have thought that about that percentage would have said "Who?"

And that was just from within his own MSPs.

[snooky]

To be fair, Scottish Labour would be a better bet than the "sit on our hands" Westminster version. What was their justification for abstaining earlier this week?

And, do you think it would be better for all if there was a separate party in Scotland?

If we got independence first :agree:.

[Tornadoes70]

To be fair, Scottish Labour would be a better bet than the "sit on our hands" Westminster version. What was their justification for abstaining earlier this week?

And, do you think it would be better for all if there was a separate party in Scotland?

Wouldn't you be better putting questions to your party leader Sturgeon asking why she drones on, why the ridiculous body language and why she always sounds so negative, ultra defensive and completely uninspiring.

In stark contrast both Labour leaders at Westminster and Holyrood are in a different league to the drone and bottomless pit of negativity that is Sturgeon.

Both Labour leaders are active in fighting poverty, ensuring a decent standard of benefits will be assured and fighting inequality among many other very worthwhile ideals.

Labour is the party to replace the tired and out of ideas Snp.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

[CropleyWasGod]

Wouldn't you be better putting questions to your party leader Sturgeon asking why she drones on, why the ridiculous body language and why she always sounds so negative, ultra defensive and completely uninspiring.

In stark contrast both Labour leaders at Westminster and Holyrood are in a different league to the drone and bottomless pit of negativity that is Sturgeon.

Both Labour leaders are active in fighting poverty, ensuring a decent standard of benefits will be assured and fighting inequality among many other very worthwhile ideals.

Labour is the party to replace the tired and out of ideas Snp.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:

She's not my party leader. I've told you that before.

I'm asking a Labour party supporter, so that I can understand their policies better.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

Watching Sturgeon's performances at First Minister's Questions is very sore to bear. She sounds negative, always ultra defensive, body language is off putting and extremely non inspiring. Tired and needs replaced as Scotland deserves so much better.

On the other hand Scottish Labour sounds sharp and focused.

Mon Scottish Labour!

:flag:


Was it Scottish Labour that questioned the first minister on the Growth Commission at FMQ?

Well, I'm waiting for your response on whether it was the wonderful Leopard that raised questions today at FMQ on the Growth Commission?