The future of the Labour Party

[cabbageandribs1875]

goodness me, not another Labour Liar, they truly are the Liebour Party :agree: Business Secretary accused of falsely claiming he was a ‘solicitor’ — despite quitting training contract and never qualifying - Legal Cheek (https://www.legalcheek.com/2025/02/business-secretary-accused-of-falsely-claiming-he-was-a-solicitor-despite-quitting-training-contract-and-never-qualifying/)

[grunt]

LOL at Scottish Labour. This is a great idea!

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24954826.snp-slam-pound-shop-elon-musk-anas-sarwars-plans-scottish-doge/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Bluesky#Echobox=1740157099


ANAS Sarwar is bidding to be a “pound-shop Elon Musk” with his plans to copy the far-right US official’s cost-cutting measures, the SNP have said.

[jamie_1875]

LOL at Scottish Labour. This is a great idea!

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24954826.snp-slam-pound-shop-elon-musk-anas-sarwars-plans-scottish-doge/?utm_medium=Social&utm_source=Bluesky#Echobox=1740157099

The National? Not sure we can take them seriously and wouldn't believe a word in it.

But they did report today John Swinney got on the Glasgow Underground.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24953354.first-minister-spotted-getting-subway-glasgow/

"THE First Minister has been spotted getting on the Subway in Glasgow"

[Keith_M]

The National? Not sure we can take them seriously and wouldn't believe a word in it.

But they did report today John Swinney got on the Glasgow Underground.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24953354.first-minister-spotted-getting-subway-glasgow/

"THE First Minister has been spotted getting on the Subway in Glasgow"


OK, read it in the Daily Record then

'Anas Sarwar echoes Donald Trump and Elon Musk by announcing Scottish Labour DOGE plan'
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/anas-sarwar-echoes-donald-trump-34726177

[Andy Bee]

The National? Not sure we can take them seriously and wouldn't believe a word in it.

But they did report today John Swinney got on the Glasgow Underground.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24953354.first-minister-spotted-getting-subway-glasgow/

"THE First Minister has been spotted getting on the Subway in Glasgow"


OK, read it in the Daily Record then

'Anas Sarwar echoes Donald Trump and Elon Musk by announcing Scottish Labour DOGE plan'
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/anas-sarwar-echoes-donald-trump-34726177


Or watch it on STV, "pound shop Elon Musk" :greengrin

https://x.com/Henriklubo/status/1893024904691188110

[grunt]

The National? Not sure we can take them seriously and wouldn't believe a word in it.


OK, read it in the Daily Record then

'Anas Sarwar echoes Donald Trump and Elon Musk by announcing Scottish Labour DOGE plan'
https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/anas-sarwar-echoes-donald-trump-34726177


Or watch it on STV, "pound shop Elon Musk" :greengrin

https://x.com/Henriklubo/status/1893024904691188110

Ok. So now you know it's true, do you support Sarwar's plan to set up a Scottish version of Elon Musk's DOGE?

[jamie_1875]

Ok. So now you know it's true, do you support Sarwar's plan to set up a Scottish version of Elon Musk's DOGE?

Sorry - I just know how there is a habit on here to immediately dismiss something because of where it's reported not the actual content.

Do I support cutting back on government waste and inefficiently? Yes, who wouldn't. The Scottish Public sector is bloated.

"Scotland is laden with so many “hidden” public bodies that watchdogs play a bingo game with the names of new ones they find.

There are about 130 quangos — external organisations set up by the government in Edinburgh to exercise functions on ministers’ behalf — costing the taxpayer about £6.6 billion annually."

Reckon we could make some savings there and pass it on to get more nurses, teachers etc.

[Ozyhibby]

Sorry - I just know how there is a habit on here to immediately dismiss something because of where it's reported not the actual content.

Do I support cutting back on government waste and inefficiently? Yes, who wouldn't. The Scottish Public sector is bloated.

"Scotland is laden with so many “hidden” public bodies that watchdogs play a bingo game with the names of new ones they find.

There are about 130 quangos — external organisations set up by the government in Edinburgh to exercise functions on ministers’ behalf — costing the taxpayer about £6.6 billion annually."

Reckon we could make some savings there and pass it on to get more nurses, teachers etc.

Which ones would you cut?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_bodies_of_the_Scottish_Government

Big list here if you’re looking for ideas.[emoji106]


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[jamie_1875]

Which ones would you cut?

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Public_bodies_of_the_Scottish_Government

Big list here if you’re looking for ideas.[emoji106]


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No idea, but if I was in Government and that was my job I would definitely do the research and have an answer. I am confident in a budget of £6BN plus some savings could be made with a proper review done in a proper professional way.

Are you suggesting we don't need more efficiency in Government and there is no room for any kind of reviews or savings to be made?

In the last 10 years we have gone from around 4,500 Scottish Government civil servants to over 8,500, it's nearly doubled.

Bit of a side issue but I have never worked in the Civil Service so have no idea how it works, I bet lots on here have so what happens if someone was really bad at their job?

[Ozyhibby]

No idea, but if I was in Government and that was my job I would definitely do the research and have an answer. I am confident in a budget of £6BN plus some savings could be made with a proper review done in a proper professional way.

Are you suggesting we don't need more efficiency in Government and there is no room for any kind of reviews or savings to be made?

In the last 10 years we have gone from around 4,500 Scottish Government civil servants to over 8,500, it's nearly doubled.

Bit of a side issue but I have never worked in the Civil Service so have no idea how it works, I bet lots on here have so what happens if someone was really bad at their job?

Are the extra ones def Scottish govt? UK govt has increased their presence here last few years.


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[jamie_1875]

Are the extra ones def Scottish govt? UK govt has increased their presence here last few years.


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All Scottish Government.

The latest quarterly Scottish Government Workforce Information statistics have been published today by Scotland’s Chief Statistician. These statistics cover the numbers of workers, staff sickness rates, and the diversity of staff up to the most recent quarter ending June 2024.

The statistics show that:

At the end of June 2024 there were 8,911 full time equivalent (FTE) directly employed staff, an increase on last year’s figure of 8,739 (2%) at the end of June 2023. At the end of June 2024 the percentage of directly employed staff was permanent (99.5%) and temporary (0.5%). This is compared to last year (June 2023: 98.8%, 1.2%)

And nearly doubled in 10 years.

But you don't think savings or efficiencies can be made in Government and quangos? Obviously done in the proper and professional way

[jamie_1875]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/anas-sarwars-speech-marks-new-34726861

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/politics/anas-sarwars-speech-marks-new-34726861

Despite the excitement of the journalist who wrote the article there does not appear to be any game changing policies in there?


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[jamie_1875]

Despite the excitement of the journalist who wrote the article there does not appear to be any game changing policies in there?


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I liked the 48hr guarantee for a GP appointment and getting an NHS App, never understood why we don't have an App for appointments etc when NHS England do.

Using public sector pension funds to build houses in Scotland should be popular as well and being an advocate of building more houses get your support?

But on the previous point you agree there can be savings and efficiencies to be made in Government, done the right and proper way?

[Ozyhibby]

I liked the 48hr guarantee for a GP appointment and getting an NHS App, never understood why we don't have an App for appointments etc when NHS England do.

Using public sector pension funds to build houses in Scotland should be popular as well and being an advocate of building more houses get your support?

But on the previous point you agree there can be savings and efficiencies to be made in Government, done the right and proper way?

Absolutely the govt is miles from being efficient. It’s just that after many years of listening to politicians promise efficiency savings without being specific about what they plan to cut and then watching them in power not achieve those efficiency savings I’m a little bit cynical and jaded with that particular line. If you want to get rid of the potato council or whatever then say so and bloody do it.

All in favour of building houses as you know. Might be tricky raiding pension funds for it? If it’s affordable housing then you are risking pensioners returns? Surely there are safeguards in place around use of pension funds?


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[jamie_1875]

Absolutely the govt is miles from being efficient. It’s just that after many years of listening to politicians promise efficiency savings without being specific about what they plan to cut and then watching them in power not achieve those efficiency savings I’m a little bit cynical and jaded with that particular line. If you want to get rid of the potato council or whatever then say so and bloody do it.

All in favour of building houses as you know. Might be tricky raiding pension funds for it? If it’s affordable housing then you are risking pensioners returns? Surely there are safeguards in place around use of pension funds?


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He mentioned reform of the planning system, unlocking public pension funds and using the Scottish Investment Bank to build more houses. Unleashing the largest house building program in decades is the desire....

[Jack]

I liked the 48hr guarantee for a GP appointment and getting an NHS App, never understood why we don't have an App for appointments etc when NHS England do.

Using public sector pension funds to build houses in Scotland should be popular as well and being an advocate of building more houses get your support?

But on the previous point you agree there can be savings and efficiencies to be made in Government, done the right and proper way?

I was involved with the Scottish Government when Labour tried to impose the 48 hour access to a GP the last time. They failed miserably both in Scotland and England to make it work.

It only really worked in Scotland when the SNP came to power and worked with the BMA to make it happen.

[Moulin Yarns]

I liked the 48hr guarantee for a GP appointment and getting an NHS App, never understood why we don't have an App for appointments etc when NHS England do.

Using public sector pension funds to build houses in Scotland should be popular as well and being an advocate of building more houses get your support?

But on the previous point you agree there can be savings and efficiencies to be made in Government, done the right and proper way?

Not an app but I can order repeat prescription and book gp appointment online, appointment often in 48 hours.

[jamie_1875]

I was involved with the Scottish Government when Labour tried to impose the 48 hour access to a GP the last time. They failed miserably both in Scotland and England to make it work.

It only really worked in Scotland when the SNP came to power and worked with the BMA to make it happen.

Whe you say it worked in Scotland what does that mean? How many get an appt in 48 hrs then as if it already high then yes I would question the policy. I thought it was a bit of a postcode lottery but could be wrong.

[Paul1642]

Whe you say it worked in Scotland what does that mean? How many get an appt in 48 hrs then as if it already high then yes I would question the policy. I thought it was a bit of a postcode lottery but could be wrong.

I believe it is. I’ve always felt very lucky with my GP surgery on the rare location I need to use them, however from speaking to others who live nearby in Musselburgh, your lucky if you can get through on the phone within 48 hours let alone get an appointment.

[Jack]

Whe you say it worked in Scotland what does that mean? How many get an appt in 48 hrs then as if it already high then yes I would question the policy. I thought it was a bit of a postcode lottery but could be wrong.

You've got to remember that this was some years ago.

The achievement measure was that at any time a patient could call the practice and the 2nd or 3rd available appointment with a GP had to be within 48 hours. That is the first 2 or 3 appointments available all had to be within 48 hours.

After some work virtually every GP practice in Scotland hit the target. Only a dozen or so, from about 1,100, never did.

[jamie_1875]

You've got to remember that this was some years ago.

The achievement measure was that at any time a patient could call the practice and the 2nd or 3rd available appointment with a GP had to be within 48 hours. That is the first 2 or 3 appointments available all had to be within 48 hours.

After some work virtually every GP practice in Scotland hit the target. Only a dozen or so, from about 1,100, never did.

Thanks, so assuming that's not the case anymore then hence the announcement by Labour. So it can be done!

[grunt]

Thanks, so assuming that's not the case anymore then hence the announcement by Labour. So it can be done!


It only really worked in Scotland when the SNP came to power and worked with the BMA to make it happen.

:wink:

[Stairway 2 7]

Certainly doesn't work at mine. I've said before but my niece is a receptionist and some days they know before opening the phone's there is no appointments bar emergencies available so they spend the day saying try tomorrow. She says the doctors just want to work less and less hours. Pity GP services are privatised although under the NHS umbrella.

[Jack]

Thanks, so assuming that's not the case anymore then hence the announcement by Labour. So it can be done!

Last time round it was Labour dictating how it should be done following the rules set by UK Labour and tartanised. It failed because of Labour's intransigence.

The SNP came to power and almost left it to the BMA to come up with a solution. The SNP said to the BMA this is what we want to achieve how would you go about setting it up?

Of course there was a bit of going back and forth but at the end of the day a pragmatic solution that suited both parties was found.

If Labour choose to dictate and impose UK policy that doesn't work in a Scottish setting, or indeed any setting, then it will fail. Again. But that's then same for any policy.

[Jack]

Certainly doesn't work at mine. I've said before but my niece is a receptionist and some days they know before opening the phone's there is no appointments bar emergencies available so they spend the day saying try tomorrow. She says the doctors just want to work less and less hours. Pity GP services are privatised although under the NHS umbrella.
It's very sad how GP services have changed over the period since the SNP came to power; decent on arrival; very good; now, not nearly as good.

With regards to GPs working fewer hours does that not reflect what many people are doing? More since covid but there's been a step change in how people generally see their work/ family life balance. Those that can afford it are working less.

[Jim44]

I see that Rachel Reeves is considering reducing the annual deposit limit into a cash ISA from £20k to £4k. ‘Reeves has been holding talks with investment fund managers, who say that pressing people to invest into a Stocks and Shares ISA instead could boost the struggling UK economy.’ This will allow the government to cream off vast sums of income tax from savings accounts but, more worryingly, they are encouraging people to ‘gamble’ their disposable income by investing in possibly high risk accounts, where you could stand the risk of losing all your money. Sounds a bit ‘Toryish’ to me.

[jamie_1875]

I see that Rachel Reeves is considering reducing the annual deposit limit into a cash ISA from £20k to £4k. ‘Reeves has been holding talks with investment fund managers, who say that pressing people to invest into a Stocks and Shares ISA instead could boost the struggling UK economy.’ This will allow the government to cream off vast sums of income tax from savings accounts but, more worryingly, they are encouraging people to ‘gamble’ their disposable income by investing in possibly high risk accounts, where you could stand the risk of losing all your money. Sounds a bit ‘Toryish’ to me.

"Someone who invested £10,000 in a cash Isa in December 2012 would currently have £11,955. Adjusted for inflation, this is just £7,918.

In contrast, a £10,000 investment in the IA Global Equity index over the same period would be worth £33,526 or £22,221 after inflation."

I am a fairly confident investor, my friends though see it as gambling but then I show them stats like the above and it does make them question should they consider investing. Plenty of products out there you can pick the level of risk you are comfortable with but it's not for everyone.

[grunt]

I am a fairly confident investor, my friends though see it as gambling but then I show them stats like the above and it does make them question should they consider investing. Plenty of products out there you can pick the level of risk you are comfortable with but it's not for everyone.
Do you have any concerns for the global economy as a result of Trump's actions over the last six weeks?

[Jim44]

"Someone who invested £10,000 in a cash Isa in December 2012 would currently have £11,955. Adjusted for inflation, this is just £7,918.

In contrast, a £10,000 investment in the IA Global Equity index over the same period would be worth £33,526 or £22,221 after inflation."

I am a fairly confident investor, my friends though see it as gambling but then I show them stats like the above and it does make them question should they consider investing. Plenty of products out there you can pick the level of risk you are comfortable with but it's not for everyone.

I think that investing in stocks and shares is fine for folk like yourself who are ‘savvy’, understand trends and make good judgements and very importantly, keep a good eye on markets etc. For ‘Joe Bloggs’ it could be a bit of a minefield. To me, safe and steady investment like a cash ISA is the way to go, but obviously not so attractive with a low deposit limit.

[jamie_1875]

Do you have any concerns for the global economy as a result of Trump's actions over the last six weeks?

The FTSE and Dow Jones are at near record highs, it of course depends what you are investing in and that could be a fund that tracks an indice or individual stocks. Defence stocks may be a good investment while gold is seen as the safe haven when there are global concerns. The markets don't like volatility so yes I would have concerns about the current state of things but it depends where and what you are investing in.

[jamie_1875]

I think that investing in stocks and shares is fine for folk like yourself who are ‘savvy’, understand trends and make good judgements and very importantly, keep a good eye on markets etc. For ‘Joe Bloggs’ it could be a bit of a minefield. To me, safe and steady investment like a cash ISA is the way to go, but obviously not so attractive with a low deposit limit.

Plenty of products out there where you basically pick High, Medium or Low risk and put away £25 a month and that's it, the rest is done by the "experts". As I say not for everyone and also not many can afford to save/invest but it's not as complicated or complex as I think some people may think. It's always more risky than just cash though, but as the stats show the returns are pretty much always better.

Best thing I did was invest a small amount each month for the kids, after nearly 18 years I am able to help my daughter out and she has some funds to help her in the future.

[Stairway 2 7]

I think that investing in stocks and shares is fine for folk like yourself who are ‘savvy’, understand trends and make good judgements and very importantly, keep a good eye on markets etc. For ‘Joe Bloggs’ it could be a bit of a minefield. To me, safe and steady investment like a cash ISA is the way to go, but obviously not so attractive with a low deposit limit.

I think that individuals that can save 20k per year aren't Joe Bloggs but rather the top few % of the population. I'd say asking for more tax from the population and mostly from higher earners is literally the opposite of a tory policy

[Stairway 2 7]

It's very sad how GP services have changed over the period since the SNP came to power; decent on arrival; very good; now, not nearly as good.

With regards to GPs working fewer hours does that not reflect what many people are doing? More since covid but there's been a step change in how people generally see their work/ family life balance. Those that can afford it are working less.

Perhaps in the private sector but my feelings is going to a GP shouldn't be privatised. Public sector workers aren't generally saying they are just going to work less as it's down to the public need

[cabbageandribs1875]

vote for change they said Labour MP took £10,000 from Russia-linked ‘golden visa’ firm (https://democracyforsale.substack.com/p/labour-mp-took-10000-donation-from-russia-golden-visa-preet-kaur-gill?fbclid=IwY2xjawInTV1leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHUiCK_H7 ZK0VUBqN7KeGxNudNP4SwCPeRAla47I93ztIApbQdTNAwtCb9A _aem_nKyS2muMH-YjwUGqz0_fQA)

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgl0k772lwpo


Vote Labour for lower energy bills.[emoji849]


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[Andy Bee]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cgl0k772lwpo


Vote Labour for lower energy bills.[emoji849]


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It's the "New Direction" :agree:

Joking aside, this is going to have a knock on onto inflation, already 3% again. Add to that all the hikes coming in April and the B of E will have to think if cutting again is the right way to go.

[cabbageandribs1875]

vote for change they said part 326421 Exposed: Labour peer’s involvement in apparent cash-for-access venture | House of Lords | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/feb/25/exposed-labour-peer-involvement-in-what-appears-to-be-cash-for-access-venture?fbclid=IwY2xjawIqddJleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHdQw_ ZLe-c6lSGrlKWb39BNra5h3-33to2EQ4Umsxa9ycXdFATtWzCxaeA_aem_RV5Z3MxHIfcDxJov 3UPdUg)

[H18S NX]

Already since January,my broadband is up,my mobile is up,tv licence is going up,lecky and gas going up probably council tax going up,then today my bank told me my interest on savings is going down,not great for a pensioner.

[grunt]

Already since January,my broadband is up,my mobile is up,tv licence is going up,lecky and gas going up probably council tax going up,then today my bank told me my interest on savings is going down,not great for a pensioner.
Good point. What exactly is going on with energy prices? Average household bills to reach £1849 after April. Who can afford that? All at a time where energy companies are making record profits. Prem Sikka says that the UK energy industry made £483bn profit since 2020. What is OFGEM doing? Arent they supposed to regulate energy prices?

[Ozyhibby]

Good point. What exactly is going on with energy prices? Average household bills to reach £1849 after April. Who can afford that? All at a time where energy companies are making record profits. Prem Sikka says that the UK energy industry made £483bn profit since 2020. What is OFGEM doing? Arent they supposed to regulate energy prices?

Energy prices are tied to gas even if it’s not gas that is providing it. It’s a rip off. And despite having an abundance of energy, Scotland is charged more for it than the rest of the UK. And we are 4 or 5 times as expensive as other European countries.


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[Smartie]

Good point. What exactly is going on with energy prices? Average household bills to reach £1849 after April. Who can afford that? All at a time where energy companies are making record profits. Prem Sikka says that the UK energy industry made £483bn profit since 2020. What is OFGEM doing? Arent they supposed to regulate energy prices?

I'm assuming there's still a fairly hefty windfall tax in place on that, therefore at least a hefty chunk will find its way back into the exchequer and it ends up just being a very indirect form of taxation?


Is there not more that can be done with the price caps, as happened a year or two back?

[Scorrie]

Energy prices are tied to gas even if it’s not gas that is providing it. It’s a rip off. And despite having an abundance of energy, Scotland is charged more for it than the rest of the UK. And we are 4 or 5 times as expensive as other European countries.


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In a nutshell. The energy market pricing needs a complete overhaul. Why on earth it is still tied to gas price I don’t know when renewables are getting a lot cheaper

[Smartie]

In a nutshell. The energy market pricing needs a complete overhaul. Why on earth it is still tied to gas price I don’t know when renewables are getting a lot cheaper

Who has it in their power to instigate such an overhaul?

Not disagreeing, just not sure how it works.

[Moulin Yarns]

Who has it in their power to instigate such an overhaul?

Not disagreeing, just not sure how it works.

The head of octopus energy has been saying it for ages.

[Scorrie]

Who has it in their power to instigate such an overhaul?

Not disagreeing, just not sure how it works.

I would have thought that Ed Miliband as the relevant Secretary of State would be able to. There is a director of clean energy in my work so I’ll ask him!

[lapsedhibee]

Let's hope that Mr Starmer, when he steps off his return flight, can at least wave a piece of paper, bigly signed by Mr Trump, assuring us that there will be no encroachment into the UK for links courses and that.

[Hibs4185]

Breaks my heart but Starmer has juts stood up to the plate and delivered

[tamig]

Breaks my heart but Starmer has juts stood up to the plate and delivered

Why does it break your heart?

[Hibs4185]

Why does it break your heart?

Because he has been an own goal for independence and he had actuality came across as a leader today

[Ozyhibby]

Breaks my heart but Starmer has juts stood up to the plate and delivered

Personally felt a bit bit embarrassed for him having to bend the knee like that but each to their own.


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[Hibs4185]

Personally felt a bit bit embarrassed for him having to bend the knee like that but each to their own.


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It was embarrassing and absolutely excruciating to watch. Starmer was unbelievably awkward especially after handing Trump the letter but somehow he has managed to get Trump on side. God knows how

[Ozyhibby]

It was embarrassing and absolutely excruciating to watch. Starmer was unbelievably awkward especially after handing Trump the letter but somehow he has managed to get Trump on side. God knows how

Trump is onside with whoever he is in the room with. He’ll be pals with Zelensky today. The minute they are all away though he will do whatever suits him best and won’t give a second thought to either. I’m not sure what you think exactly was achieved yesterday?


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[Bostonhibby]

Trump is onside with whoever he is in the room with. He’ll be pals with Zelensky today. The minute they are all away though he will do whatever suits him best and won’t give a second thought to either. I’m not sure what you think exactly was achieved yesterday?


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkPerfectly sums up the character of the man. Self obsessed and narcissistic and never truly comfortable face to face as he craves popularity.

You could see his delight at the invitation to a bit of pomp and pageantry with the King, hopefully our right to protest won't be as restricted as last time he creeped into our country.

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[Ozyhibby]

Perfectly sums up the character of the man. Self obsessed and narcissistic and never truly comfortable face to face as he craves popularity.

You could see his delight at the invitation to a bit of pomp and pageantry with the King, hopefully our right to protest won't be as restricted as last time he creeped into our country.

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I think you know the answer to that. Labour has not repealed a single anti protest law that they opposed when Patel brought them in.


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[Bostonhibby]

I think you know the answer to that. Labour has not repealed a single anti protest law that they opposed when Patel brought them in.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkSadly, I do. For me it's about how it's policed and where the blob is allowed to parade himself and how stage managed the event is to make him get the right mix of thinking he's loved here and getting the biggest bestest treatment ever.

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[Hibs4185]

Trump is onside with whoever he is in the room with. He’ll be pals with Zelensky today. The minute they are all away though he will do whatever suits him best and won’t give a second thought to either. I’m not sure what you think exactly was achieved yesterday?


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I think you’re right, yesterday was a bit too good to be true and I waited for the press conference because I thought Trump would throw a curve ball in somewhere, however none came.

It’s all a bit too good to be true so I wouldn’t be shocked if something changes.

However, with my dislike for Trump and Starmer, yesterday could not have went any better for the UK and hopefully Ukraine.

It’s widely reported this morning how well it went. Trade deal, no tariffs and positive signs for Ukraine.

If that was nothing being achieved then I don’t know frankly.

Whether it lasts we shall see but at this moment in time, I’m far happier than I was a week ago where I couldn’t even watch the news because my heart was breaking for Ukraine and Zelensky.

[Ozyhibby]

I think you’re right, yesterday was a bit too good to be true and I waited for the press conference because I thought Trump would throw a curve ball in somewhere, however none came.

It’s all a bit too good to be true so I wouldn’t be shocked if something changes.

However, with my dislike for Trump and Starmer, yesterday could not have went any better for the UK and hopefully Ukraine.

It’s widely reported this morning how well it went. Trade deal, no tariffs and positive signs for Ukraine.

If that was nothing being achieved then I don’t know frankly.

Whether it lasts we shall see but at this moment in time, I’m far happier than I was a week ago where I couldn’t even watch the news because my heart was breaking for Ukraine and Zelensky.

There is no chance we have a trade deal with the States. It just would not work. They would demand access to the NHS and agricultural markets. No chance we can give it and it also pushes us away from the EU.
The no tariffs thing is a no brainer. We are one of the few countries that the US does not have a trade deficit with because we don’t make anything that they want. Starmer amazingly brought this up as if it was a good thing during the press conference.
As for Ukraine, nothing changed at all.
He’s some salesman though if people here are buying all that from yesterday.

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[Bostonhibby]

There is no chance we have a trade deal with the States. It just would not work. They would demand access to the NHS and agricultural markets. No chance we can give it and it also pushes us away from the EU.
The no tariffs thing is a no brainer. We are one of the few countries that the US does not have a trade deficit with because we don’t make anything that they want. Starmer amazingly brought this up as if it was a good thing during the press conference.
As for Ukraine, nothing changed at all.
He’s some salesman though if people here are buying all that from yesterday.

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You're exactly right on the trade deal and the tariffs in particular as well, we are in a very poor place on manufacturing currently, the States already have plenty Hairdressers and coffee shops which seems to be the UK's actual growth areas as distinct from what we talk about.

And the States are unlikely to need to use our world class legacy money laundering services now that they are free to let rip and do what they want at home.

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[tamig]

Because he has been an own goal for independence and he had actuality came across as a leader today

I’m pro-independence. Not sure what you mean by Starmer being an og for independence? He leads a party that is against it. What do you expect?

[jamie_1875]

We do export quite a bit to the US nearly £200BN last year so its not insignificant. Cars, medicines and power generators being the big items.

[Jack]

You're exactly right on the trade deal and the tariffs in particular as well, we are in a very poor place on manufacturing currently, the States already have plenty Hairdressers and coffee shops which seems to be the UK's actual growth areas as distinct from what we talk about.

And the States are unlikely to need to use our world class legacy money laundering services now that they are free to let rip and do what they want at home.

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Lots of food banks too. They've been increasing government on government.

[Bostonhibby]

Lots of food banks too. They've been increasing government on government.Yep, ironically in the brexit supporting area round here I seen one the other day where quite a few of the volunteers are the dreaded foreigners, and apparently quite a bit of their donated past sell by date stock comes from the Polish and Eastern European supermarket.

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[Andy Bee]

Oh how times change.......https://x.com/Keir_Starmer/status/1134833523959971840 :greengrin

[Hibs4185]

I’m pro-independence. Not sure what you mean by Starmer being an og for independence? He leads a party that is against it. What do you expect?

His performance in the first few months has been dreadful, scrapping the winter fuel payment etc, which has lead Scottish Labour to its lowest polling in years.

I thought independence was dead for at least 10 years after the Labour landslide but suddenly it’s back on the table due to Starmer’s policies.

Hence why Starmer has bene great for independence.

[Paul1642]

Trump is onside with whoever he is in the room with. He’ll be pals with Zelensky today.

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Perhaps not.

[Ozyhibby]

Perhaps not.

Indeed. Everyone now knows where they stand now. Time to get on with it.


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[Stairway 2 7]

A thread on twitter sharing all the European nations praising Zelensky and Ukraine. Around 21 different nations and some nations with multiple politicians. From the right wing Austria, left wing Spain and neutral Ireland.

https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1895562005953827044

From Labour and Starmer zero, even the tories are speaking up, SNP too

@KemiBadenoch
Respectable diplomacy is essential for peace.
We need to remember that the villain is the war criminal President Putin who illegally invaded another sovereign country - Ukraine. A divided West only benefits Russia. Now is the time for more cooperation, not less

@RobertJenrick
I’m sickened by that degrading spectacle. And to think the bust of Winston Churchill was in the same room as it unfolded. He would be turning in his grave if he saw that happen.

Ukraine’s people, led by President Zelenskyy, have fought bravely to hold off Putin over the last three years with US and European support. Zelenskyy has shown sincere gratitude for the support offered by his partners. We salute him and the courageous Ukrainians as they fight for freedom against Russian imperialism


@JohnSwinney
Today's events in Washington are a clear cause for deep concern, for shock, for anger. What we need now are cool heads and clear thinking. We must stand firm with our European allies in the steadfast defence of Ukraine. That is where Scotland stands

[Smartie]

A thread on twitter sharing all the European nations praising Zelensky and Ukraine. Around 21 different nations and some nations with multiple politicians. From the right wing Austria, left wing Spain and neutral Ireland.

https://x.com/Osinttechnical/status/1895562005953827044

From Labour and Starmer zero, even the tories are speaking up, SNP too

@KemiBadenoch
Respectable diplomacy is essential for peace.
We need to remember that the villain is the war criminal President Putin who illegally invaded another sovereign country - Ukraine. A divided West only benefits Russia. Now is the time for more cooperation, not less

@RobertJenrick
I’m sickened by that degrading spectacle. And to think the bust of Winston Churchill was in the same room as it unfolded. He would be turning in his grave if he saw that happen.

Ukraine’s people, led by President Zelenskyy, have fought bravely to hold off Putin over the last three years with US and European support. Zelenskyy has shown sincere gratitude for the support offered by his partners. We salute him and the courageous Ukrainians as they fight for freedom against Russian imperialism


@JohnSwinney
Today's events in Washington are a clear cause for deep concern, for shock, for anger. What we need now are cool heads and clear thinking. We must stand firm with our European allies in the steadfast defence of Ukraine. That is where Scotland stands

Surprising and heartening to see the proper right wingers being as critical as that.

[Bishop Hibee]

Indeed. I’m no Tory but Churchill would have called out Trump’s fascism

[Bostonhibby]

Surprising and heartening to see the proper right wingers being as critical as that.Indeed, nothing from wee Nige yet, or did I miss it?

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[grunt]

@RobertJenrick
I’m sickened by that degrading spectacle. And to think the bust of Winston Churchill was in the same room as it unfolded. He would be turning in his grave if he saw that happen.

Ukraine’s people, led by President Zelenskyy, have fought bravely to hold off Putin over the last three years with US and European support. Zelenskyy has shown sincere gratitude for the support offered by his partners. We salute him and the courageous Ukrainians as they fight for freedom against Russian imperialism
Said last year if he was American he would vote for Trump. Hypocrite.

[Smartie]

Said last year if he was American he would vote for Trump. Hypocrite.

I’m sort of fascinated with how this plays out with those further to the right, here and in the USA.

Whatever anyone thinks, the Russians are not natural friends or allies of them so they’re sort of stuck.

Truss has obviously damaged her zero credibility further by throwing her lot in with the MAGA loons and Farage skirts around the sides but nobody else in the UK seems to be getting on board. Even Johnson picked a side decisively and early (quite bizarrely given rumours imo).

This might even put Farage in a difficult position - if there is a swell in pro-European and anti-American sentiment, which I expect there might be.

[Bostonhibby]

I’m sort of fascinated with how this plays out with those further to the right, here and in the USA.

Whatever anyone thinks, the Russians are not natural friends or allies of them so they’re sort of stuck.

Truss has obviously damaged her zero credibility further by throwing her lot in with the MAGA loons and Farage skirts around the sides but nobody else in the UK seems to be getting on board. Even Johnson picked a side decisively and early (quite bizarrely given rumours imo).

This might even put Farage in a difficult position - if there is a swell in pro-European and anti-American sentiment, which I expect there might be.Well put sir[emoji106]

Still nothing from Farage, unless I missed it.

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[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/480515341_9366814616708619_4278169060557060657_n.j pg?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=127cfc&_nc_ohc=Ce2hgwOsrvcQ7kNvgE-3cCl&_nc_oc=Adj5YHMF1Q2_MwcVblmYhzQD5PyQTMgt7W4d0ssvTQz KpFU1OvJuV2y88UBogbW90MI&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=AnWGJH4LfSFNdN2Q4gT1Ih6&oh=00_AYBnPaHTSqZ1vH6q6xGbIlWcv0eSrl7tMXrWpOfR0lt8 Gw&oe=67C925B2

[tamig]

His performance in the first few months has been dreadful, scrapping the winter fuel payment etc, which has lead Scottish Labour to its lowest polling in years.

I thought independence was dead for at least 10 years after the Labour landslide but suddenly it’s back on the table due to Starmer’s policies.

Hence why Starmer has bene great for independence.

Cheers. Sorry I just didn’t get what you meant by the phrase but get it now.

[Jim44]

Starmer is coming across as a wet behind the ears chameleon. One minute he is telling Zelensky that the UK is firmly behind Ukraine and in the next breath he announces that he trusts Trump. I assume that the grovelling idea to invite Trump to an audience with the king is his and it stinks. I don’t trust him. For the record I am from a strong Labour background.

[Smartie]

Starmer is coming across as a wet behind the ears chameleon. One minute he is telling Zelensky that the UK is firmly behind Ukraine and in the next breath he announces that he trusts Trump. I assume that the grovelling idea to invite Trump to an audience with the king is his and it stinks. I don’t trust him. For the record I am from a strong Labour background.

I'm not a Labour supporter, but I respect the man for attempting to ride a few horses at the same time - and for being someone whose ego allows for him to allow himself to potentially look foolish or weak to some, but who knows that there is a greater good at stake.

We sort of need the likes of him right now.

I'm comfortable with our man being the humility amongst the hubris.

[Jim44]

It might have been more insightful if Zalensky’s meeting with Trump had come before Starmer’s.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250307/6befa0645c357fc87581f305ccefc833.jpg
Who could have seen this coming?[emoji849] Labour Party hate Scotland but we are stupid enough to keep falling for it.


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[Berwickhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250307/6befa0645c357fc87581f305ccefc833.jpg
Who could have seen this coming?[emoji849] Labour Party hate Scotland but we are stupid enough to keep falling for it.


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Make up your mind, your screaming that Starmer has to do more to support Ukraine and European military support, which he does but when he has to make cuts to fund it, you complain that it’s an attack on Scotland.

[Moulin Yarns]

Make up your mind, your screaming that Starmer has to do more to support Ukraine and European military support, which he does but when he has to make cuts to fund it, you complain that it’s an attack on Scotland.

What about increased taxation for the rich and keeping windfall tax for the oil and gas companies?

[Bostonhibby]

What about increased taxation for the rich and keeping windfall tax for the oil and gas companies?Gets my vote but sounds a bit socialist to me.

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[Ozyhibby]

Make up your mind, your screaming that Starmer has to do more to support Ukraine and European military support, which he does but when he has to make cuts to fund it, you complain that it’s an attack on Scotland.

These are not real cuts because they were never going to happen. The whole thing was a complete con from start to finish.


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[grunt]

Make up your mind, your screaming that Starmer has to do more to support Ukraine and European military support, which he does but when he has to make cuts to fund it, you complain that it’s an attack on Scotland.
Who says he has to make cuts to fund it? Tax the rich.

[Andy Bee]

Make up your mind, your screaming that Starmer has to do more to support Ukraine and European military support, which he does but when he has to make cuts to fund it, you complain that it’s an attack on Scotland.

He doesn't have to make cuts to fund anything, it's a political choice just like WASPI,WFA, the two child benefit cap and the rumoured upcoming slashing of £bns off of benefits. The idea that we have this finite pot of money created by the amount of taxes brought in every year is exactly what politicians either want you to think or don't understand and believe it themselves. GB Energy was dressed up as one of the few things that could've created growth, cutting it will achieve nowt except let Rachel from accounts brag that she stuck to her beloved fiscal framework. I suppose Starmer is relying on a good ole war now to achieve his growth targets.

[jamie_1875]

Who says he has to make cuts to fund it? Tax the rich.

In Scotland you are rich it seems if you earn £43K or more as you pay the higher rate tax band.

If you mean a wealth tax they sound great but reality is they would be complicated and very costly to administer.

In Scotland we increased the tax rates but then potentially actually have less revenue! We probably need to wait a few years to get the full impact though and whether it's been positive or negative.

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,increases-to-top-rate-income-tax-may-have-reduced-revenues-says-ifs

[Ozyhibby]

In Scotland you are rich it seems if you earn £43K or more as you pay the higher rate tax band.

If you mean a wealth tax they sound great but reality is they would be complicated and very costly to administer.

In Scotland we increased the tax rates but then potentially actually had less revenue! We probably need to wait a few years to get the full impact though and whether it's been positive or negative.

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,increases-to-top-rate-income-tax-may-have-reduced-revenues-says-ifs

You used ‘potentially’ and ‘had’ in the same sentence? [emoji23]


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[Pretty Boy]

He doesn't have to make cuts to fund anything, it's a political choice just like WASPI,WFA, the two child benefit cap and the rumoured upcoming slashing of £bns off of benefits. The idea that we have this finite pot of money created by the amount of taxes brought in every year is exactly what politicians either want you to think or don't understand and believe it themselves. GB Energy was dressed up as one of the few things that could've created growth, cutting it will achieve nowt except let Rachel from accounts brag that she stuck to her beloved fiscal framework. I suppose Starmer is relying on a good ole war now to achieve his growth targets.

I genuinely think Labour strategists are living in a delusional parallel world in which they believe the political and social landscape today is comparable to 1997.

Matching the Tories fiscal framework and spending commitments for a parliamentary term worked for Blair and Brown then. They knew the 2001 election was a slam dunk because there was no opposition of note. In that 2nd term they turned the spending taps on and then some. It wasn't particularly redistributive and you can pick holes in it all day, particularly the diversion of public money to private enterprise and how much we are still paying for that today, but things definitely got better, superficially at any rate. As it stands Labour simply aren't going to get a 2nd term this time around, certainly not with any kind of workable majority. Their Scottish support base isn't the rock it once was, would anyone really be surprised if they lost 20-30 seats at the next election? The spectre of Reform is everywhere in England but particularly in some of the heartlands.

People across the demographics are struggling now. People are working multiple jobs to make ends meet, people who work don't have enough left to live any kind of life after essentials are paid, younger people have all but accepted that owning a house is a pipe dream, people who need benefits find they are insufficient to meet their needs, bills are going up across the board, fiscal drag is decimating take home pay etc etc. Reform aren't the answer obviously but the neither is this pitiful excuse for a Labour Party. At a time when we need a bold and radical alternative to the status quo we have got this. Things can indeed only get better but god knows who is going to lead us there.

[jamie_1875]

You used ‘potentially’ and ‘had’ in the same sentence? [emoji23]


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I edited a few times as often struggle to get the right words, sorry about that. Glad you find it funny?

[grunt]

In Scotland you are rich it seems if you earn £43K or more as you pay the higher rate tax band.
With all due respect this is nonsense.

[Berwickhibby]

With all due respect this is nonsense.

He is correct in respect of taxation threshold

[Ozyhibby]

He is correct in respect of taxation threshold

It’s not the highest tax band though so ‘rich’ is a bit of an unfair description? Maybe ‘doing ok’ would be a bit more accurate?
Personally agree that it should be at a higher level though.


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[Berwickhibby]

It’s not the highest tax band though so ‘rich’ is a bit of an unfair description? Maybe ‘doing ok’ would be a bit more accurate?
Personally agree that it should be at a higher level though.


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On that we can agree

[jamie_1875]

It’s not the highest tax band though so ‘rich’ is a bit of an unfair description? Maybe ‘doing ok’ would be a bit more accurate?
Personally agree that it should be at a higher level though.


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I didn't say it was the highest did I? I said it was the Higher Tax Band, that's literally it's name. 😂

It's called the Higher Rate Tax Band on the Scottish Government website.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-income-tax-2025-2026-factsheet/pages/2/

[Ozyhibby]

I didn't say it was the highest did I? I said it was the Higher Tax Band, that's literally it's name. [emoji23]

It's called the Higher Rate Tax Band on the Scottish Government website.

https://www.gov.scot/publications/scottish-income-tax-2025-2026-factsheet/pages/2/

You said in Scotland you were deemed rich if you earned £43k, did you not?


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[Moulin Yarns]

He is correct in respect of taxation threshold

Yeah, it's called the higher rate but it's not the highest tax rate.

[Berwickhibby]

Yeah, it's called the higher rate but it's not the highest tax rate.

Nobody has said it’s the highest rate…but the name ‘higher rate’ suggests you’re earning more than average and should be paying more tax. Hence why Jamie quite rightly stated it suggests you are rich (well richer than others)

[RyeSloan]

You said in Scotland you were deemed rich if you earned £43k, did you not?


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Used to be the thought that if you were earning enough for the 40% tax band then you were ‘rich’.

But I’m confused as to what people consider ‘the rich’ to be these days.

Interesting I read recently that if the £50k 40% band in England had went up with inflation that would now be c£75k…which is now the 45% band in Scotland!

No wonder people feel worse off these days…inflation and the massive fiscal drag from taxation has been a huge double whammy on a large number of people.

As an example at the start of the 90’s only 3.5% of adults paid higher rate tax in the U.K. In Scotland (which presumably had less than the U.K. average back then) that’s now over 11% and it’s a 42% rate.

Take out the huge amount of non tax payers (maybe there in lies some of the problem!) and you get nearly 28% of tax payers having a marginal rate of 42% or above.

[Pretty Boy]

Nobody has said it’s the highest rate…but the name ‘higher rate’ suggests you’re earning more than average and should be paying more tax. Hence why Jamie quite rightly stated it suggests you are rich (well richer than others)

I think to put it into perspective someone earning £44K in Scotland takes home about £2915 a month whilst someone earning £34K takes home £2329 (this is at the most base level and doesn't take into account student loans, pension contributions etc). A £10K disparity in gross pay only equates to an additional £586 take home a month. Not an insignificant sum but hardly enough to enable someone to live a millionaire lifestyle.

I'm all for placing a higher tax burden on those who can most afford it but a £43K threshold for the higher rate is too low. You are talking a higher end band 6 nurses salary not an investment banker. I think it's telling that just over £85K a year still puts you in the top 5% of earners in the UK. That is by most measures a good salary but it's not super duper rich and probably leads to our warped idea of what constitutes 'rich' or 'doing well' these days. £44K is a nice salary but it's not putting you out of site of people earning significantly less. All the brackets really need a rethink; the tax free allowance is set too low as well and places an undue burden on those who really can least afford it.

When we are talking about taxing those who can most afford it we should really be looking at 6 figure earners and above with perhaps an intermediary rate at about £55-75K rather than squabbling about people earning £40K and whether that constitutes being rich or not (which it isn't by any reasonable measure).

[Ozyhibby]

Used to be the thought that if you were earning enough for the 40% tax band then you were ‘rich’.

But I’m confused as to what people consider ‘the rich’ to be these days.

Interesting I read recently that if the £50k 40% band in England had went up with inflation that would now be c£75k…which is now the 45% band in Scotland!

No wonder people feel worse off these days…inflation and the massive fiscal drag from taxation has been a huge double whammy on a large number of people.

As an example at the start of the 90’s only 3.5% of adults paid higher rate tax in the U.K. In Scotland (which presumably had less than the U.K. average back then) that’s now over 11% and it’s a 42% rate.

Take out the huge amount of non tax payers (maybe there in lies some of the problem!) and you get nearly 28% of tax payers having a marginal rate of 42% or above.

Last paragraph is about to become much talked about as I think Labour are going to cut sickness benefit. I think we have the highest number of people on it in Europe (70% mental health) and it has to drop if we are to get out the mess we are in.


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[Ozyhibby]

I think to put it into perspective someone earning £44K in Scotland takes home about £2915 a month whilst someone earning £34K takes home £2329 (this is at the most base level and doesn't take into account student loans, pension contributions etc). A £10K disparity in gross pay only equates to an additional £586 take home a month. Not an insignificant sum but hardly enough to enable someone to live a millionaire lifestyle.

I'm all for placing a higher tax burden on those who can most afford it but a £43K threshold for the higher rate is too low. You are talking a higher end band 6 nurses salary not an investment banker. I think it's telling that just over £85K a year still puts you in the top 5% of earners in the UK. That is by most measures a good salary but it's not super duper rich and probably leads to our warped idea of what constitutes 'rich' or 'doing well' these days. £44K is a nice salary but it's not putting you out of site of people earning significantly less. All the brackets really need a rethink; the tax free allowance is set too low as well and places an undue burden on those who really can least afford it.

When we are talking about taxing those who can most afford it we should really be looking at 6 figure earners and above with perhaps an intermediary rate at about £55-75K rather than squabbling about people earning £40K and whether that constitutes being rich or not (which it isn't by any reasonable measure).

Totally agree. The tax take on people earning average salaries has become especially burdensome. Something will need to give soon.


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[RyeSloan]

I think to put it into perspective someone earning £44K in Scotland takes home about £2915 a month whilst someone earning £34K takes home £2329 (this is at the most base level and doesn't take into account student loans, pension contributions etc). A £10K disparity in gross pay only equates to an additional £586 take home a month. Not an insignificant sum but hardly enough to enable someone to live a millionaire lifestyle.

I'm all for placing a higher tax burden on those who can most afford it but a £43K threshold for the higher rate is too low. You are talking a higher end band 6 nurses salary not an investment banker. I think it's telling that just over £85K a year still puts you in the top 5% of earners in the UK. That is by most measures a good salary but it's not super duper rich and probably leads to our warped idea of what constitutes 'rich' or 'doing well' these days. £44K is a nice salary but it's not putting you out of site of people earning significantly less. All the brackets really need a rethink; the tax free allowance is set too low as well and places an undue burden on those who really can least afford it.

When we are talking about taxing those who can most afford it we should really be looking at 6 figure earners and above with perhaps an intermediary rate at about £55-75K rather than squabbling about people earning £40K and whether that constitutes being rich or not (which it isn't by any reasonable measure).

Yet even the 6 figure earners pay a marginal rate between £100k and £125k of 67.5% in Scotland!

Not that there is too many of them if you look at the stats.

It would appear that from an income tax, PAYE perspective there is nowhere left to turn really. The burden has been pretty rapidly ramped up across the board and, despite what some would think, especially on the ‘higher’ earners.

Not that I have too many answers of course…just that there seems to be no real road left to run on that front.

I’d suggest that whatever answers there may be are actually within a pretty radical rethink of how all tax, benefits and services are provided and to what level and to who but if we can’t even address a single tax like council tax then what hope do we have of such a re-think from any party in any of our governments!

[Moulin Yarns]

Nobody has said it’s the highest rate…but the name ‘higher rate’ suggests you’re earning more than average and should be paying more tax. Hence why Jamie quite rightly stated it suggests you are rich (well richer than others)

Average salary last year was £38.5k so those on the higher rate are above the average Scottish salary.

[Andy Bee]

I genuinely think Labour strategists are living in a delusional parallel world in which they believe the political and social landscape today is comparable to 1997.

Matching the Tories fiscal framework and spending commitments for a parliamentary term worked for Blair and Brown then. They knew the 2001 election was a slam dunk because there was no opposition of note. In that 2nd term they turned the spending taps on and then some. It wasn't particularly redistributive and you can pick holes in it all day, particularly the diversion of public money to private enterprise and how much we are still paying for that today, but things definitely got better, superficially at any rate. As it stands Labour simply aren't going to get a 2nd term this time around, certainly not with any kind of workable majority. Their Scottish support base isn't the rock it once was, would anyone really be surprised if they lost 20-30 seats at the next election? The spectre of Reform is everywhere in England but particularly in some of the heartlands.

People across the demographics are struggling now. People are working multiple jobs to make ends meet, people who work don't have enough left to live any kind of life after essentials are paid, younger people have all but accepted that owning a house is a pipe dream, people who need benefits find they are insufficient to meet their needs, bills are going up across the board, fiscal drag is decimating take home pay etc etc. Reform aren't the answer obviously but the neither is this pitiful excuse for a Labour Party. At a time when we need a bold and radical alternative to the status quo we have got this. Things can indeed only get better but god knows who is going to lead us there.

A blog by Zach Carter on John Maynard Keynes, widely thought of as one of the greatest economists of modern times. It's interesting the similarities of what's happening now compared to back in the time when FDR won the presidency and the US was suffering the Great Depression. Keynes answer was basically to spend not cut. Prof Robbie Mochrie of Heriot Watt Uni talks of a phonecall between Keynes and FDR who was asking for advice on how to get out of the depression, Keynes answer "spend $400m a month wisely until you see signs of recovery". The New Deal was born and the rest is history.

https://www.futurehindsight.com/blog/how-keynes-influenced-fdrs-new-deal

[Ozyhibby]

A blog by Zach Carter on John Maynard Keynes, widely thought of as one of the greatest economists of modern times. It's interesting the similarities of what's happening now compared to back in the time when FDR won the presidency and the US was suffering the Great Depression. Keynes answer was basically to spend not cut. Prof Robbie Mochrie of Heriot Watt Uni talks of a phonecall between Keynes and FDR who was asking for advice on how to get out of the depression, Keynes answer "spend $400m a month wisely until you see signs of recovery". The New Deal was born and the rest is history.

https://www.futurehindsight.com/blog/how-keynes-influenced-fdrs-new-deal

US debt was only about 50% of gdp in 1933. We are already at 100% ish.


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[Andy Bee]

US debt was only about 50% of gdp in 1933. We are already at 100% ish.


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Japans is 300%, there's no scenario whereby cutting benefits, services and investments lead to a more prosperous future for the majority of people.

[Ozyhibby]

Japans is 300%, there's no scenario whereby cutting benefits, services and investments lead to a more prosperous future for the majority of people.

I’m not disagreeing. Austerity was a disastrous policy. We do need to look at the number of people who are not active in the economy though but that is different from austerity.


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[Pretty Boy]

I’m not disagreeing. Austerity was a disastrous policy. We do need to look at the number of people who are not active in the economy though but that is different from austerity.


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It would take some time to bear fruit, and we all know both politicians and much of the public want quick results, but creating an environment in which having children is appealing and affordable again rather than seriously cost prohibitive would be a huge step in the right direction. We simply need to get the average age of the population down. The idea that some people want to scrap child benefit altogether seems total madness to me (and massively hypocritical given it has been in existence in various guises since 1945 or indeed 1909 if you want to go back to the tax breaks of the Lloyd George government so the people calling for it to be scrapped benefited from it themselves). We could also sort out the ridiculous anomaly that sees a household with one individual earning £50K (rising to £60K) as the total household income not receive the benefit but one in which 2 individuals earn £49K for a total household income of £98K do. I would have loved to have another child or 2 but the reality is as a family we just couldn't afford it. If my wife wanted to go back to work full time after we had our 2nd about 90% of her salary would have been consumed by childcare (obviously she wouldn't have been exclusively paying for it but you get the idea of what I am trying to say). She took an extended period out of work, paused her career and is now back working only part time in a lower paid job so earning less and thus contributing less in tax take longer term than she would have done with a couple of years of well funded childcare.

If you want short term gains with such a policy then open up free childcare or at least generously funded childcare from a younger age, universally and throughout the year. That allows parents to go out to work, it creates employment in childcare settings and it creates knock on employment in other sectors.

[Ozyhibby]

It would take some time to bear fruit, and we all know both politicians and much of the public want quick results, but creating an environment in which having children is appealing and affordable again rather than seriously cost prohibitive would be a huge step in the right direction. We simply need to get the average age of the population down. The idea that some people want to scrap child benefit altogether seems total madness to me (and massively hypocritical given it has been in existence in various guises since 1945 or indeed 1909 if you want to go back to the tax breaks of the Lloyd George government so the people calling for it to be scrapped benefited from it themselves). We could also sort out the ridiculous anomaly that sees a household with one individual earning £50K (rising to £60K) as the total household income not receive the benefit but one in which 2 individuals earn £49K for a total household income of £98K do. I would have loved to have another child or 2 but the reality is as a family we just couldn't afford it. If my wife wanted to go back to work full time after we had our 2nd about 90% of her salary would have been consumed by childcare (obviously she wouldn't have been exclusively paying for it but you get the idea of what I am trying to say). She took an extended period out of work, paused her career and is now back working only part time in a lower paid job so earning less and thus contributing less in tax take longer term than she would have done with a couple of years of well funded childcare.

If you want short term gains with such a policy then open up free childcare or at least generously funded childcare from a younger age, universally and throughout the year. That allows parents to go out to work, it creates employment in childcare settings and it creates knock on employment in other sectors.

Couldn’t agree more. Also embrace working from home, especially for young parents.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

shower o Tory ****s

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/480297329_954219410224364_5229068793119690188_n.jp g?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=yWKW3ijosygQ7kNvgEWUt-c&_nc_oc=AdixvObHp08V720d7eJwxPpfjZczM-Dp74l6PVgwc4dbHkoFLoIhPLPI5esludT7K74&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=AQPcAQwhqgWWgGAqhdXZYxR&oh=00_AYHeXHA-quIQlb9e0667su9z7CDIidq4_WHiGGAqU1FWtg&oe=67D1412A

[jamie_1875]

shower o Tory ****s

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/480297329_954219410224364_5229068793119690188_n.jp g?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=yWKW3ijosygQ7kNvgEWUt-c&_nc_oc=AdixvObHp08V720d7eJwxPpfjZczM-Dp74l6PVgwc4dbHkoFLoIhPLPI5esludT7K74&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=AQPcAQwhqgWWgGAqhdXZYxR&oh=00_AYHeXHA-quIQlb9e0667su9z7CDIidq4_WHiGGAqU1FWtg&oe=67D1412A

“The government has given the NHS a £183 billion budget for 2025-26 but an audit by NHS found this week that, based on current spending plans, they will exceed this by £6.6 Billion.”

This budget is higher than before, and is asking nhs to adhere to budget set"

Always best to look beyond the headlines.

[Moulin Yarns]

shower o Tory ****s

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/480297329_954219410224364_5229068793119690188_n.jp g?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=yWKW3ijosygQ7kNvgEWUt-c&_nc_oc=AdixvObHp08V720d7eJwxPpfjZczM-Dp74l6PVgwc4dbHkoFLoIhPLPI5esludT7K74&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=AQPcAQwhqgWWgGAqhdXZYxR&oh=00_AYHeXHA-quIQlb9e0667su9z7CDIidq4_WHiGGAqU1FWtg&oe=67D1412A

I'll admit I can't read beyond the headline because it's behind a paywall!!!!


https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/nhs-leaders-propose-7bn-cuts-spending-deficit-z8khsgpwp


Sounds like labour are demanding £7bn saving from the NHS!!

[cabbageandribs1875]

vote for change, of conservative colours that is :aok: get musk in to help them

Details of more than £6bn in welfare cuts revealed | ITV News (https://www.itv.com/news/2025-03-07/government-to-make-6bn-welfare-savings-with-benefits-shake-up?fbclid=IwY2xjawI4TjFleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHROBmlYn05-jkiTqdbRqMxLlnjSRdnpE7PwGE1T7Ccu3zhWE3KkqcKD_sg_ae m_Cc5067f5dsJaEYNsRmkLXw)


https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/480761613_9413143588742388_4902108803132939114_n.j pg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=iOPSRCycgZMQ7kNvgHzcwve&_nc_oc=Adgo6OtO7LpLHC6zUneDtbSszLnV34rmLPoU-Cf1bc1S9Tme9Fuj2OubHwzpGqzHlwk&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=A7zKbXEXbKU2TzNtaPgsz2J&oh=00_AYGR5tM9qXec5WvGVhnBBZxK7uokFGbb5INLVUS4J5jf DQ&oe=67D13F3C

[cabbageandribs1875]

I'll admit I can't read beyond the headline because it's behind a paywall!!!!


https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/nhs-leaders-propose-7bn-cuts-spending-deficit-z8khsgpwp


Sounds like labour are demanding £7bn saving from the NHS!!

two mins i'll give you a link to that

try this, copy & paste the link in it https://12ft.io/

[jamie_1875]

I'll admit I can't read beyond the headline because it's behind a paywall!!!!


https://www.thetimes.com/uk/healthcare/article/nhs-leaders-propose-7bn-cuts-spending-deficit-z8khsgpwp


Sounds like labour are demanding £7bn saving from the NHS!!

It's like saying the SNP gave the Scottish NHS record funding of £30BN and then the NHS saying but we will spend £32BN and the headline saying SNP will cut the NHS budget by £2BN. Doesn't really tell the whole story.

[SHODAN]

In Scotland you are rich it seems if you earn £43K or more as you pay the higher rate tax band.

If you mean a wealth tax they sound great but reality is they would be complicated and very costly to administer.

In Scotland we increased the tax rates but then potentially actually have less revenue! We probably need to wait a few years to get the full impact though and whether it's been positive or negative.

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,increases-to-top-rate-income-tax-may-have-reduced-revenues-says-ifs

I remember when the new tax threshold was first introduced one of the rags' headline was "Sturgeon has just taken away your skiing holiday!"

Excuse me if I take out the world's smallest violin.

[Pretty Boy]

I remember when the new tax threshold was first introduced one of the rags' headline was "Sturgeon has just taken away your skiing holiday!"

Excuse me if I take out the world's smallest violin.

You think people earning £43K are the classic demographic for luxury skiing holidays? Maybe in 1992. More chance they are using a foodbank in the current climate. A stupid headline and unbelievable people actually paid it any attention.

If we can't get a handle on what actually constitutes wealthy in 2025 and how that manifests itself then we are doomed to never have a sensible conversation about taxation, who pays it and how.

[jamie_1875]

I went to Hillend when I was younger and hated it, put me right off skiing.

[Hibrandenburg]

I went to Hillend when I was younger and hated it, put me right off skiing.

That's like having your first kick-about on the M8 and hating football.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/12/eu-retaliates-against-trump-tariffs-with-26bn-countermeasures

UK just says ‘thank you sir’ to tariffs imposed by Trump. Some strong leadership from Starmer as usual.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Bostonhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2025/mar/12/eu-retaliates-against-trump-tariffs-with-26bn-countermeasures

UK just says ‘thank you sir’ to tariffs imposed by Trump. Some strong leadership from Starmer as usual.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkI definitely agree with you, time for us to grow a set and get into line with however the EU and Scandinavians might respond(?). The long term fall out from buddying up with this gang doesn't seem worth it.



Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/mar/14/uk-economy-shrinks-blow-to-rachel-reeves?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky&CMP=bsky_gu

Thank goodness Labour are focussing on growth.[emoji849]


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[silverhibee]

There is no future for the Labour Party now.

[grunt]

No. No no no no no. Do not do this.

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:qwb7aulelog3wpb6o3nwx33e/bafkreihfgynrtgnnqu2jkl2up7ulgwbq37stqwgjkkhv3ljxl xdau4si3a@jpeg

[Ozyhibby]

No. No no no no no. Do not do this.

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:qwb7aulelog3wpb6o3nwx33e/bafkreihfgynrtgnnqu2jkl2up7ulgwbq37stqwgjkkhv3ljxl xdau4si3a@jpeg

In his defence, it would be hard to imagine an administration moving slower than the current UK govt. They have totally wasted the first 9 months and have the square root of zero to show for it.


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[MKHIBEE]

There is no future for the Labour Party now.
That’s how I feel. The name may carry on but I don’t see them being a party that the less fortunate in society will look towards for the help they need.

[silverhibee]

That’s how I feel. The name may carry on but I don’t see them being a party that the less fortunate in society will look towards for the help they need.

The more unfortunate people in the UK were better of under the Tories, that’s a sad thing when Labour are in power promised the world and have delivered nothing.

[Pretty Boy]

No. No no no no no. Do not do this.

https://cdn.bsky.app/img/feed_fullsize/plain/did:plc:qwb7aulelog3wpb6o3nwx33e/bafkreihfgynrtgnnqu2jkl2up7ulgwbq37stqwgjkkhv3ljxl xdau4si3a@jpeg

I'm just stunned he described this government as centre left. Centrist enablers at best.

[Bostonhibby]

I'm just stunned he described this government as centre left. Centrist enablers at best.A guy I'm really uncomfortable with being anywhere near the labour party let alone a minister.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

A guy I'm really uncomfortable with being anywhere near the labour party let alone a minister.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

One of those guys who's path was decided about 40 years ago. Cambridge Student Union leader to NUS leader to MP to shadow Minister to Cabinet. A cursory 1 year protected position in the public sector for 'real world experience'. The only choice he ever made was whether to wear a blue, yellow or red rosette.

[MKHIBEE]

A guy I'm really uncomfortable with being anywhere near the labour party let alone a minister.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

A leader in the making, when voting Tory will seem like the path to a “ just and fair” society

[cabbageandribs1875]

****s the lot of them

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/483870987_10236552805341530_7334365647524691228_n. jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=hPZL6piddsEQ7kNvgEqBcid&_nc_oc=AdiS-lnw5_HdRamIUNM6yN0e-BqpULWHqaV_0Uos9fpzLNA_TM1UFF_oo3OePvt4xMs&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=rG6QW_QwRrv-nXn2hNDpxQ&oh=00_AYFq_m-6cwFn64_8xShW9qz7AoAG6mputBhYyGSUREHV_w&oe=67DB9E9D

[Kato]

I'm just stunned he described this government as centre left. Centrist enablers at best.Slightly centre right imh. The right have moved so far ahead toward authoritarianism that it makes John Major look like Harold Wilson.

Labour have zero socialist policies, are quite happy to add fuel to the furnace of neoliberalism and are relaxed with the less well off have to pay more taxes.

The same since "New Labour" who brought in in-work benefits, which is basically socialism for the rich.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[JimBHibees]

****s the lot of them

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/483870987_10236552805341530_7334365647524691228_n. jpg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=hPZL6piddsEQ7kNvgEqBcid&_nc_oc=AdiS-lnw5_HdRamIUNM6yN0e-BqpULWHqaV_0Uos9fpzLNA_TM1UFF_oo3OePvt4xMs&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=rG6QW_QwRrv-nXn2hNDpxQ&oh=00_AYFq_m-6cwFn64_8xShW9qz7AoAG6mputBhYyGSUREHV_w&oe=67DB9E9D

Should be immediate sackings. Clearly been manipulated by politicians shameful

[cabbageandribs1875]

another BLiS Slaver

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/484167608_1202527204779477_7394550444380307859_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=bt7RvTsNjvwQ7kNvgEpJbT4&_nc_oc=Adjx58HAOT6wsVK9SW2vAd5_FVowmDxeCrPzPWWNkMt I7sRaDDdFDA8GfOYRjT9LZSM&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=Pdu15GPcGh0nIT01wMFEZA&oh=00_AYHh72f-KndqfYoaD8MoWz0fgiJNnPzcbR9AQT8Yxl1-Ag&oe=67DB838C

[JimBHibees]

another BLiS Slaver

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/484167608_1202527204779477_7394550444380307859_n.j pg?_nc_cat=110&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=bt7RvTsNjvwQ7kNvgEpJbT4&_nc_oc=Adjx58HAOT6wsVK9SW2vAd5_FVowmDxeCrPzPWWNkMt I7sRaDDdFDA8GfOYRjT9LZSM&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=Pdu15GPcGh0nIT01wMFEZA&oh=00_AYHh72f-KndqfYoaD8MoWz0fgiJNnPzcbR9AQT8Yxl1-Ag&oe=67DB838C

How is a Scottish mp so badly educated about the nhs. Absolutely basic knowledge. Maybe deliberate gaslighting

[jamie_1875]

How is a Scottish mp so badly educated about the nhs. Absolutely basic knowledge. Maybe deliberate gaslighting

Is it that there are 14 Regional Health Boards, 7 special NHS boards, 1 public health body and 31 Integrated Health and Social Care Boards.

Maybe his language is wrong but the point being do we need that many? 14 Chief Executive salaries etc and so on .?

That's the debate.

[grunt]

Is it that there are 14 Regional Health Boards, 7 special NHS boards, 1 public health body and 31 Integrated Health and Social Care Boards. Maybe his language is wrong but the point being do we need that many? 14 Chief Executive salaries etc and so on .?

That's the debate.
CEO salary for NHS Lothian in range £150k to £200k. Not excessive IMO given the responsibility they have.

[jamie_1875]

CEO salary for NHS Lothian in range £150k to £200k. Not excessive IMO given the responsibility they have.

I would agree, but the point of the comment he made was IMO there are 50 public bodies in Scotland dealing with Health, that's 50 CEO salaries, 50 HR departments and so on.

Feels reasonable to question if we as a small country need that many? Maybe we do, but it seems you dare question anything about the NHS you are immediately shot down. It needs reform, I think most would agree so we need to start somewhere.

[Andy Bee]

I would agree, but the point of the comment he made was IMO there are 50 public bodies in Scotland dealing with Health, that's 50 CEO salaries, 50 HR departments and so on.

Feels reasonable to question if we as a small country need that many? Maybe we do, but it seems you dare question anything about the NHS you are immediately shot down. It needs reform, I think most would agree so we need to start somewhere.

There's no CEO salaries involved in the 31 boards you mention, they're regional hence the number, they're made up of councillors and health professionals setup so's to integrate the local council social care and NHS for each region. Simply put if you close them all down then you do not save a penny apart from maybe tea and coffee money when they meet up. England are looking to reform closer to the Scottish and Welsh systems and are looking to put back ministerial control rather than trust and ministerial. Shanks is either clueless or gaslighting as usual.

[jamie_1875]

There's no CEO salaries involved in the 31 boards you mention, they're regional hence the number, they're made up of councillors and health professionals setup so's to integrate the local council social care and NHS for each region. Simply put if you close them all down then you do not save a penny apart from maybe tea and coffee money when they meet up. England are looking to reform closer to the Scottish and Welsh systems and are looking to put back ministerial control rather than trust and ministerial. Shanks is either clueless or gaslighting as usual.

I don't see anyone suggesting all 31 are closed down, but a quick look at their roles and responsibilities suggests there could be potential for duplication and do we need 31 of these across the country. Do we need 14 Health Boards for Scotland is another question that should be looked at.

I personally don't see it being an issue questioning the NHS and if we need 14 Health Boards and 31 times all of the people below etc. Would prefer our elected representatives questionong and challenged rather than pretending everything is ok. I understand he is Labour so he could probably come up with the best solution in the world and it would be dismissed by many but I am comfortable for MPs and MSPs to challenge the status quo and would like to see it done more.


"The Integration Joint Board is created as a new legal entity that binds the Health Board and the Local Authority together in a joint arrangement. The membership of an Integration Joint Board reflects equal participation by the Health Board and Local Authority to ensure that there is joint decision making and accountability.

The Local Authority and the Health Board will set out the number of representatives that will sit on the Integration Joint Board within their integration scheme. The Order requires that the Local Authority and Health Board put forward a minimum of three nominees each. This number may be increased by local agreement, but the same number must be nominated by each party. Local Authorities can insist on nominating a maximum of 10% of their full number of Councillors. The Health Board and Local Authority may also agree that they will each nominate a larger number than this.

The Local Authority will nominate Councillors to sit on the Integration Joint Board.

The Health Board will nominate non-executive directors to sit on an Integration Joint Board. Where the Health Board is unable to fill all their places with non-executive directors, they can then nominate other members of the Health Board.

The Integration Joint Board will make decisions about how health and social care services are planned and delivered for the communities within their areas. To do this effectively, they will require professional advice, for example, to ensure that the decisions reflect sound clinical practice. It is also essential that Integration Joint Boards include key stakeholders within the decision making processes to utilise their advice and experience.

To ensure this, the Order sets out a minimum membership, but allows local flexibility to add additional nominations as Integration Joint Boards see fit. In addition to Health Board and Local Authority representatives, the Integration Joint Board membership must also include:

The Chief Social Work Officer of the constituent Local Authority
A General Practitioner representative, appointed by the Health Board
A Secondary Medical care Practitioner representative, employed by the Health Board
A Nurse representative, employed by the Health Board
A staff-side representative
A third sector representative
A carer representative
A service user representative
The Chief Officer of the Integration Joint Board
The Section 95 Officer of the Integration Joint Board

[grunt]

I don't see anyone suggesting all 31 are closed down, but a quick look at their roles and responsibilities suggests there could be potential for duplication and do we need 31 of these across the country. Do we need 14 Health Boards for Scotland is another question that should be looked at.

You have no idea what they do but you question their value?

[jamie_1875]

You have no idea what they do but you question their value?

I know 31 for Scotland seems high.

I also agree with Shanks when he says "Less bureaucracy, more healthcare professionals treating patients is what we need" I think most would agree with that statement, would you?

[Andy Bee]

I don't see anyone suggesting all 31 are closed down, but a quick look at their roles and responsibilities suggests there could be potential for duplication and do we need 31 of these across the country. Do we need 14 Health Boards for Scotland is another question that should be looked at.

I personally don't see it being an issue questioning the NHS and if we need 14 Health Boards and 31 times all of the people below etc. Would prefer our elected representatives questioned and challenged rather than pretending everything is ok. I understand he is Labour so he could probably come up with the best solution in the world and it would be dismissed by many but I comfortable for MPs to challenge the status quo and would like to see it done more.


"The Integration Joint Board is created as a new legal entity that binds the Health Board and the Local Authority together in a joint arrangement. The membership of an Integration Joint Board reflects equal participation by the Health Board and Local Authority to ensure that there is joint decision making and accountability.

The Local Authority and the Health Board will set out the number of representatives that will sit on the Integration Joint Board within their integration scheme. The Order requires that the Local Authority and Health Board put forward a minimum of three nominees each. This number may be increased by local agreement, but the same number must be nominated by each party. Local Authorities can insist on nominating a maximum of 10% of their full number of Councillors. The Health Board and Local Authority may also agree that they will each nominate a larger number than this.

The Local Authority will nominate Councillors to sit on the Integration Joint Board.

The Health Board will nominate non-executive directors to sit on an Integration Joint Board. Where the Health Board is unable to fill all their places with non-executive directors, they can then nominate other members of the Health Board.

The Integration Joint Board will make decisions about how health and social care services are planned and delivered for the communities within their areas. To do this effectively, they will require professional advice, for example, to ensure that the decisions reflect sound clinical practice. It is also essential that Integration Joint Boards include key stakeholders within the decision making processes to utilise their advice and experience.

To ensure this, the Order sets out a minimum membership, but allows local flexibility to add additional nominations as Integration Joint Boards see fit. In addition to Health Board and Local Authority representatives, the Integration Joint Board membership must also include:

The Chief Social Work Officer of the constituent Local Authority
A General Practitioner representative, appointed by the Health Board
A Secondary Medical care Practitioner representative, employed by the Health Board
A Nurse representative, employed by the Health Board
A staff-side representative
A third sector representative
A carer representative
A service user representative
The Chief Officer of the Integration Joint Board
The Section 95 Officer of the Integration Joint Board

Of course you need them, there's 31 of them because of the 32 council areas (Stirling is in a joint partnership). Councils are responsible for running social care and NHS runs health so they need to talk to each other hence the intermediary boards. They're made up of existing councillors and existing health professionals, they're not stand alone positions so your claim of 50 CEOs and 50 HR departments just aint true as are Shanks claims.

[DaveF]

I know 31 for Scotland seems high.

I also agree with Shanks when he says "Less bureaucracy, more healthcare professionals treating patients is what we need" I think most would agree with that statement, would you?

You sound like you would swallow the same **** that Musk and Trump spout. How sad that a one proud labour party have shrills like you at their core now.

[Bostonhibby]

Slightly centre right imh. The right have moved so far ahead toward authoritarianism that it makes John Major look like Harold Wilson.

Labour have zero socialist policies, are quite happy to add fuel to the furnace of neoliberalism and are relaxed with the less well off have to pay more taxes.

The same since "New Labour" who brought in in-work benefits, which is basically socialism for the rich.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk[emoji106]This

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[jamie_1875]

You sound like you would swallow the same **** that Musk and Trump spout. How sad that a one proud labour party have shrills like you at their core now.

Lol, ok 😂. (And I think you meant shill)

[DaveF]

Lol, ok 😂. (And I think you meant shill)

Whatever, you fit the bill.

Labour voter from my era would easily brand you a dyed in the wool conservative.

[jamie_1875]

Whatever, you fit the bill.

Labour voter from my era would easily brand you a dyed in the wool conservative.

You seem really angry about it, but times have changed and the politics of the 1970s won't work in the modern world. Luckily the people of Scotland agree with me seeing as over 800,000 voted for Labour at the election less than a year ago going from 1 MP at the previous election to 37.

Yes the polls are not looking favourable for 2026 but I am still hopeful that can be turned around when the campaigns begin for real.

[Ozyhibby]

You seem really angry about it, but times have changed and the politics of the 1970s won't work in the modern world. Luckily the people of Scotland agree with me seeing as over 800,000 voted for Labour at the election less than a year ago going from 1 MP at the previous election to 37.

Yes the polls are not looking favourable for 2026 but I am still hopeful that can be turned around when the campaigns begin for real.

You hope the campaign will turn things around rather than do anything that would benefit Scotland. Less focus on sales and more on delivery would be good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jamie_1875]

You hope the campaign will turn things around rather than do anything that would benefit Scotland. Less focus on sales and more on delivery would be good.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Why would anyone living in Scotland hope a party does nothing to benefit Scotland? Don't get it.

[Kato]

You seem really angry about it, but times have changed and the politics of the 1970s won't work in the modern world.



The politics of the 70s are left in the past but policies are timeless. Cutting/blaming burocacy, putting profits before everything and tariff wars aren't exactly modern ideas.

Sent from my SM-A528B using Tapatalk

[JimBHibees]

I would agree, but the point of the comment he made was IMO there are 50 public bodies in Scotland dealing with Health, that's 50 CEO salaries, 50 HR departments and so on.

Feels reasonable to question if we as a small country need that many? Maybe we do, but it seems you dare question anything about the NHS you are immediately shot down. It needs reform, I think most would agree so we need to start somewhere.

He said Health Boards he should know the difference but no doubt spinning it as negatively as possible

[Moulin Yarns]

I would agree, but the point of the comment he made was IMO there are 50 public bodies in Scotland dealing with Health, that's 50 CEO salaries, 50 HR departments and so on.

Feels reasonable to question if we as a small country need that many? Maybe we do, but it seems you dare question anything about the NHS you are immediately shot down. It needs reform, I think most would agree so we need to start somewhere.

Have you noticed that labour are scrapping NHS England, a single body in favour of local NHS boards with additional care bodies to run them locally.

Exactly the thing you are ranting about????

[Moulin Yarns]

While we are on about the NHS I would like to thank Jackie Baillie for highlighting the excellent service by the NHS in Scotland

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/scottish-patients-having-to-rely-on-decades-old-equipment-says-labour


An MRI scanner costs £500,000 so one lasting 15 years is only costing £33,333 a year.

[cabbageandribs1875]

A MASSIVE THANK YOU TO SIR KIER STARMER AND THE LABOUR PARTY.

I am so sincerely sorry, Where on earth are my manners. I have forgotten to thank Kier Starmer and his three female colleagues (Reeves, Angela Rayner and Yvette Cooper for their overwhelming generosity in awarding me a £36 a month pension rise.
The thing is -and I think they would all readily agree with me – that I don’t really deserve such a huge rise. I just hope that this large amount doesn’t make any difference to their 5.5% rise, or to their £91.346 salary. I would hate to think that I was taking food from their mouths.

The reason I am so grateful is that this precious money will almost certainly help towards the rise in my council tax, the rise in my gas and electricity, the rise in my water rates and the expected rise in the cost of living.
These forthcoming rises are now only expected to eat into about 15% of my existing pension, I’m quite sure I could skip another meal somewhere to make up for this generous gesture. I would also – whilst I am writing this – like to thank everyone who voted the Labour Party into power, without all your help I would not be in the position I am in today.

Oh, and I must also apologise for being reckless with the money this government have so generously allowed me to have after working a meagre fifty years, what I mean by being reckless is wasting it on food items and keeping warm. I now realise that I could have saved a lot more by turning my thermostat down just one degree to 10 degrees. Also, if they hadn’t stopped my Winter fuel payment, I would have been grossly overweight. We have had a narrow escape really, during the general election campaign, they promised to cut our bills by up to £300 over the course of this Parliament, had they managed to do this I would have been able to eat a lot better. This in turn would have led me to joining weightwatchers at a further £228 per annum, so, they have saved me money in a funny way.

One last thing, I must thank the Labour party for keeping me on a sober line, if they hadn’t put the cost of a pint up so high I would have been attending AA by now.
So, thank you to the fab four and everyone in the Labour party for not spoiling me or allowing me to get spoiled, and I really hope that I don’t have to say more thanks when Ms Reeves finally taxes me on my pension in April.

Sincerely

Every Pensioner in the Country

[Jack]

Come on Cabbage, they took a penny (1p) off a pint!

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/484171166_10161130195653059_5723160488526780347_n. jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_tt6&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=dWwUC_NuqNkQ7kNvgEilYoB&_nc_oc=Adio6sZLbamKhsetyE0u0sHIA8sKtiGgXGoclN1sBiC ApPZwEm0X5Cz2WMpjierrwFA&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=_rNX8n_Sqd03ML9fR1swgA&oh=00_AYGXR2y42kv6MyFsBnwJrMy869VXY7K7eYCi32gle8Gs tg&oe=67DB8BE4

[cabbageandribs1875]

Come on Cabbage, they took a penny (1p) off a pint!


that's no good for teetotalers like moi :cb

[cabbageandribs1875]

George Monbiot: "Brilliant column by @nesrinemalik.bsky.social, which everyone in the UK should read. www.theguardian.com/commentisfre..." — Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/georgemonbiot.bsky.social/post/3lkkzxk2r4s2a?fbclid=IwY2xjawJFXhhleHRuA2FlbQIxMAA BHQo0NIDiFqje7jtamDzMtAUGrYoB-yumN70cO_2QzSTAjc3QhImb4sSoqg_aem_qKOWRzhCaoIdooO9 PD27zg)

Many said the Starmer era would be just Tory-lite – now it’s worse than that. Time to stop the pretence | Nesrine Malik | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/17/keir-starmer-tory-radical-prime-minister-poor-people)


anyone with half a brain knew we were getting Tory-Lite with Starmer & Streeting, but we probably didn't realise just how much this horrible new British Labour party would swing to the right, it's a battle now between British Labour/Conservative party & the Farage company Reform UK just how far right they will go to get the votes in the future, every one of they parties make me freakin sick but the new British Labour should scunner us all.

[Ozyhibby]

George Monbiot: "Brilliant column by @nesrinemalik.bsky.social, which everyone in the UK should read. www.theguardian.com/commentisfre..." — Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/georgemonbiot.bsky.social/post/3lkkzxk2r4s2a?fbclid=IwY2xjawJFXhhleHRuA2FlbQIxMAA BHQo0NIDiFqje7jtamDzMtAUGrYoB-yumN70cO_2QzSTAjc3QhImb4sSoqg_aem_qKOWRzhCaoIdooO9 PD27zg)

Many said the Starmer era would be just Tory-lite – now it’s worse than that. Time to stop the pretence | Nesrine Malik | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/17/keir-starmer-tory-radical-prime-minister-poor-people)


anyone with half a brain knew we were getting Tory-Lite with Starmer & Streeting, but we probably didn't realise just how much this horrible new British Labour party would swing to the right, it's a battle now between British Labour/Conservative party & the Farage company Reform UK just how far right they will go to get the votes in the future, every one of they parties make me freakin sick but the new British Labour should scunner us all.

I can see the need for reform of the disability allowance or whatever it’s called but they need to start to show that it’s not just people at the bottom that they are picking on. Where is the wealth tax? Land tax? It can’t all just be pensioners and disabled people who have to bear the weight of trimming deficit.


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[MKHIBEE]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/484171166_10161130195653059_5723160488526780347_n. jpg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_tt6&_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=dWwUC_NuqNkQ7kNvgEilYoB&_nc_oc=Adio6sZLbamKhsetyE0u0sHIA8sKtiGgXGoclN1sBiC ApPZwEm0X5Cz2WMpjierrwFA&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=_rNX8n_Sqd03ML9fR1swgA&oh=00_AYGXR2y42kv6MyFsBnwJrMy869VXY7K7eYCi32gle8Gs tg&oe=67DB8BE4

I think that shows exactly the position that Labour have adopted and it is not a good one for the less fortunate people in the country. My dad used to tell me “ if you fly with the craws, you will get shot with the craws”, I feel that is going to be happening a lot over this Parliament.

[Pretty Boy]

George Monbiot: "Brilliant column by @nesrinemalik.bsky.social, which everyone in the UK should read. www.theguardian.com/commentisfre..." — Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/georgemonbiot.bsky.social/post/3lkkzxk2r4s2a?fbclid=IwY2xjawJFXhhleHRuA2FlbQIxMAA BHQo0NIDiFqje7jtamDzMtAUGrYoB-yumN70cO_2QzSTAjc3QhImb4sSoqg_aem_qKOWRzhCaoIdooO9 PD27zg)

Many said the Starmer era would be just Tory-lite – now it’s worse than that. Time to stop the pretence | Nesrine Malik | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/17/keir-starmer-tory-radical-prime-minister-poor-people)


anyone with half a brain knew we were getting Tory-Lite with Starmer & Streeting, but we probably didn't realise just how much this horrible new British Labour party would swing to the right, it's a battle now between British Labour/Conservative party & the Farage company Reform UK just how far right they will go to get the votes in the future, every one of they parties make me freakin sick but the new British Labour should scunner us all.

Is it even Tory Lite? From where I'm sitting, admittedly probably a bit more to the left than many, it just seems full blown Tory. It's Cameron's austerity mark 2 and given it was a total flop on about every conceivable level first time around (unless the aim was excess deaths and economic stagnation all along) I've no idea why there would be any desire to run it back again.

[The Tubs]

Is it even Tory Lite? From where I'm sitting, admittedly probably a bit more to the left than many, it just seems full blown Tory. It's Cameron's austerity mark 2 and given it was a total flop on about every conceivable level first time around (unless the aim was excess deaths and economic stagnation all along) I've no idea why there would be any desire to run it back again.

I suppose you have to make some allowance for national debt, interest rates and Brexit all limiting the capacity for government action. Under Cameron, the conditions were far more favourable.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/480557094_9478670695523010_8249971604207148790_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=jsXspkdDpYYQ7kNvgGGtktX&_nc_oc=AdktjrOuV79TNnLqKZLOY61MK_qcX0V7zSf2Xbeas5G KTKRHQ6hYwPpPs9_Lvzyb5xA&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=YR_Fxyxh8E3ZI5pSCnG2Nw&oh=00_AYGM58BNF5Uybmnqb45Aw3mnehZEmQeSaoj2rXHbIYRB DQ&oe=67DFE766

[cabbageandribs1875]

Baillie & Sarwar love to be seen and heard every day in the media....where are they :confused: of course Westminster TV(scottish branch) and the now Daily Express stablemate The Daily Record are not asking them questions, s'funny that, eh

MSM Monitor on X: "In October 2022 Jackie Baillie demanded the UK and Scottish Govts ensure adequate funding for a disabled girl, Freya Hunter. The girl's mother, Carolynne Hunter, resigned from Labour this week because of the party's disability benefit cuts. What say you now Jackie? https://t.co/Sme00GF35V" / X (https://x.com/msm_monitor/status/1902325757386342885)

[cabbageandribs1875]

Neil Findlay resigns from the nasty party



https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/485032991_1376211683512436_3314208468618923876_n.j pg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_tt6&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=Ks91JAoxE5gQ7kNvgE5NbEg&_nc_oc=AdmTkO4QT2vKeyRQ8UDxgHV71E4s5b4iw7hUwNALOor cx2-jehvhPecGcBG3ulG78JE&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=aN-GmZb1ZH6mmL94Dcovxw&oh=00_AYG_Bm6YUQsrQVC8KV6gePaU8L8wWKm99fkukJOhRLwz gA&oe=67E0B502


https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/485696453_1376211730179098_3250205792807699443_n.j pg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_tt6&_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=cU0hqfw3dHgQ7kNvgHOU98T&_nc_oc=Adn-_DcKn_DWRZeVkz4vNVzxYxsI_W-UquQIWmt25H3N8tdHGTrM3_Ga1H2OjoVJC3g&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=-6mkMuw3Eb7iK_nI4tKpXQ&oh=00_AYGAPAqwLW2a4w0NEMJSnlmwp6unXaoFw5AjzwphkTvr GQ&oe=67E0BA17

[silverhibee]

George Monbiot: "Brilliant column by @nesrinemalik.bsky.social, which everyone in the UK should read. www.theguardian.com/commentisfre..." — Bluesky (https://bsky.app/profile/georgemonbiot.bsky.social/post/3lkkzxk2r4s2a?fbclid=IwY2xjawJFXhhleHRuA2FlbQIxMAA BHQo0NIDiFqje7jtamDzMtAUGrYoB-yumN70cO_2QzSTAjc3QhImb4sSoqg_aem_qKOWRzhCaoIdooO9 PD27zg)

Many said the Starmer era would be just Tory-lite – now it’s worse than that. Time to stop the pretence | Nesrine Malik | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/17/keir-starmer-tory-radical-prime-minister-poor-people)


anyone with half a brain knew we were getting Tory-Lite with Starmer & Streeting, but we probably didn't realise just how much this horrible new British Labour party would swing to the right, it's a battle now between British Labour/Conservative party & the Farage company Reform UK just how far right they will go to get the votes in the future, every one of they parties make me freakin sick but the new British Labour should scunner us all.

Just wait until the hot weather starts and the patriots of England will destroy England.

[silverhibee]

Is it even Tory Lite? From where I'm sitting, admittedly probably a bit more to the left than many, it just seems full blown Tory. It's Cameron's austerity mark 2 and given it was a total flop on about every conceivable level first time around (unless the aim was excess deaths and economic stagnation all along) I've no idea why there would be any desire to run it back again.

As I said earlier, I’m on benefits and I was getting more under a Tory government than me and the missus are getting from labour now, carers allowance up £2.20p/m, DLA for missus up £2.00 and UC will go up a whopping £8 extra a month in April, the carers allowance is a joke though, slave labour with no time of for £11p/d 24/7, thank goodness the SNP supplement carers two times a year for the hard work they put in to looking after and caring for people.

[DaveF]

Neil Findlay resigns from the nasty party



https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/485032991_1376211683512436_3314208468618923876_n.j pg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_tt6&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=Ks91JAoxE5gQ7kNvgE5NbEg&_nc_oc=AdmTkO4QT2vKeyRQ8UDxgHV71E4s5b4iw7hUwNALOor cx2-jehvhPecGcBG3ulG78JE&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=aN-GmZb1ZH6mmL94Dcovxw&oh=00_AYG_Bm6YUQsrQVC8KV6gePaU8L8wWKm99fkukJOhRLwz gA&oe=67E0B502


https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/485696453_1376211730179098_3250205792807699443_n.j pg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_tt6&_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=cU0hqfw3dHgQ7kNvgHOU98T&_nc_oc=Adn-_DcKn_DWRZeVkz4vNVzxYxsI_W-UquQIWmt25H3N8tdHGTrM3_Ga1H2OjoVJC3g&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=-6mkMuw3Eb7iK_nI4tKpXQ&oh=00_AYGAPAqwLW2a4w0NEMJSnlmwp6unXaoFw5AjzwphkTvr GQ&oe=67E0BA17

I'm sure the labour loyalists will dismiss him as a fringe lunatic, whilst casually ignoring his reasons for resignation.

[Ozyhibby]

Neil Findlay resigns from the nasty party



https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/485032991_1376211683512436_3314208468618923876_n.j pg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_tt6&_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=Ks91JAoxE5gQ7kNvgE5NbEg&_nc_oc=AdmTkO4QT2vKeyRQ8UDxgHV71E4s5b4iw7hUwNALOor cx2-jehvhPecGcBG3ulG78JE&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=aN-GmZb1ZH6mmL94Dcovxw&oh=00_AYG_Bm6YUQsrQVC8KV6gePaU8L8wWKm99fkukJOhRLwz gA&oe=67E0B502


https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/485696453_1376211730179098_3250205792807699443_n.j pg?stp=cp6_dst-jpg_tt6&_nc_cat=104&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=cU0hqfw3dHgQ7kNvgHOU98T&_nc_oc=Adn-_DcKn_DWRZeVkz4vNVzxYxsI_W-UquQIWmt25H3N8tdHGTrM3_Ga1H2OjoVJC3g&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=-6mkMuw3Eb7iK_nI4tKpXQ&oh=00_AYGAPAqwLW2a4w0NEMJSnlmwp6unXaoFw5AjzwphkTvr GQ&oe=67E0BA17

Easy to resign when it’s not a job you’re resigning from.


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[Ozyhibby]

Remember when Labour were going to sort this before they got distracted with taking money of disabled people.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgp51d7zy2o


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[jamie_1875]

Remember when Labour were going to sort this before they got distracted with taking money of disabled people.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgp51d7zy2o


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The Planning and Infrastructure Bill has it's second reading in parliament next week. I am sure it's better to do it properly than rush it through. Does it even impact Scotland?

[Moulin Yarns]

The Planning and Infrastructure Bill has it's second reading in parliament next week. I am sure it's better to do it properly than rush it through. Does it even impact Scotland?

That doesn't stop development applications being decided though?! Unless developers are hanging back expecting everything to be so much easier to railroad through the planning process!!
😉

[cabbageandribs1875]

BLiS have a "listening event" tonight (giggle)

NHS Listening Event with Anas Sarwar and Jackie Baillie - Cumbernauld (https://events.labour.org.uk/event/481352?fbclid=IwY2xjawJCoehleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHX0M-bszJRK6gNoFhyfA7p9R9PaA0N9WpjkwlimgSOX6N0oFZE5Zw5z Dlw_aem_N0rblfZq0UGmklIYX9_C1w)

yes, Sarwar and Baillie want to hear from the public how the SNHS should be run :rolleyes: what they really mean is "yi got any goss so we can bring it up in Holyrood"

Scottish Labour wants to hear your views about the challenges facing our NHS and what needs to be done to ensure it is there when you need it and fit for the future.

[Ozyhibby]

BLiS have a "listening event" tonight (giggle)

NHS Listening Event with Anas Sarwar and Jackie Baillie - Cumbernauld (https://events.labour.org.uk/event/481352?fbclid=IwY2xjawJCoehleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHX0M-bszJRK6gNoFhyfA7p9R9PaA0N9WpjkwlimgSOX6N0oFZE5Zw5z Dlw_aem_N0rblfZq0UGmklIYX9_C1w)

yes, Sarwar and Baillie want to hear from the public how the SNHS should be run :rolleyes: what they really mean is "yi got any goss so we can bring it up in Holyrood"

Scottish Labour wants to hear your views about the challenges facing our NHS and what needs to be done to ensure it is there when you need it and fit for the future.





Thought he would be busy saving Grangemouth? Hundreds of millions he promised to save it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[cabbageandribs1875]

from 2016, lots of giggles

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/485366705_1046794107495300_8583140497118160671_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=O0fUUXTBiQAQ7kNvgEq6k1z&_nc_oc=AdnE86O2lE7II3_M2mLz8f1ttDNHb_lqjN_19xAY0PO 3kIVBVudMwWpWztClDuFnntk&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=_4DOv9DDm173OOFxUdcruQ&oh=00_AYE8F5a4BbgCSuGuFo0nGv0AJSDjqNAsn04mf1rWalVz-A&oe=67E20D10

[JimBHibees]

from 2016, lots of giggles

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/485366705_1046794107495300_8583140497118160671_n.j pg?_nc_cat=111&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=O0fUUXTBiQAQ7kNvgEq6k1z&_nc_oc=AdnE86O2lE7II3_M2mLz8f1ttDNHb_lqjN_19xAY0PO 3kIVBVudMwWpWztClDuFnntk&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=_4DOv9DDm173OOFxUdcruQ&oh=00_AYE8F5a4BbgCSuGuFo0nGv0AJSDjqNAsn04mf1rWalVz-A&oe=67E20D10

More faces than the town clock

[cabbageandribs1875]

Thought he would be busy saving Grangemouth? Hundreds of millions he promised to save it.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

unfortunately it's agreed the media won't ask him difficult questions, he's allowed to stay schtum on some topics, of course everyone knows(surely) he has to await instructions from HQ in England on what to finally say on certain events, or dodged altogether and on to another topic.

[Hibs4185]

https://x.com/J4m35c4mpb3ll/status/1902433207875695029

Sums up Scottish Labour and Sarwar pretty well

[cabbageandribs1875]

another one leaves the Nasty Party

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GmaZ8tiXkAAxqd8?format=jpg&name=medium

[JimBHibees]

What the hell has Labour become punishing pensioners now disabled people ffs

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.sky.com/story/bluesky-13332973

Labour is going to take us back to the IMF for a bailout at this rate.


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[Hibs4185]

https://news.sky.com/story/bluesky-13332973

Labour is going to take us back to the IMF for a bailout at this rate.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I seen a debate with Sunak from last year and he warned exactly this would happen if Labour got into power. Pains me to say a Tory was right.

Look at the SNP and stephen Flynn in particular warning about Labour’s uncosted plans and a £20 billion black hole in their plans.

Absolute charlatans Starmer and Reeves

[Ozyhibby]

I seen a debate with Sunak from last year and he warned exactly this would happen if Labour got into power. Pains me to say a Tory was right.

Look at the SNP and stephen Flynn in particular warning about Labour’s uncosted plans and a £20 billion black hole in their plans.

Absolute charlatans Starmer and Reeves

He was certainly right about them not having a plan. This is painful to watch.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250321/4d55886c33428f059fd8e1bccfca31f2.jpg


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibs4185]

I see some of the press are already linking the Heathrow fire today to possibly being Russia.

I can see it being Russia to be honest if you look at similar events around Europe.

I hope it’s not and it’s just an accidental fire.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2025/mar/22/all-uk-families-to-be-worse-off-by-2030-as-poor-bear-the-brunt-new-data-warns?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky&CMP=bsky_gu

It’s all going to plan.[emoji849]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250323/ec6afaa3d675c8fc5ee0845ad528cfdd.jpg

What makes Scotland so different?


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/23/hard-times-why-rachel-reeves-must-be-bold-and-ditch-her-dickensian-rulebook?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-5

And some good ideas for them to turn it around. The EU is really the only way forward but some of this would help.


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[Hibs4185]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/mar/23/hard-times-why-rachel-reeves-must-be-bold-and-ditch-her-dickensian-rulebook?CMP=oth_b-aplnews_d-5

And some good ideas for them to turn it around. The EU is really the only way forward but some of this would help.


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Could this be a strategy? Make it so bad, that the only way to improve is to rejoin the EU? Surely not but we are headed that way.

[Ozyhibby]

Could this be a strategy? Make it so bad, that the only way to improve is to rejoin the EU? Surely not but we are headed that way.

I think as part of some sort of mutual defence pact that we’ll join the SM and CU. It makes total sense but is still Brexit. Public support is there and it’s their only chance to get growth and investment back in the economy. And allows UK companies to bid for all those juicy defence contracts.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250324/2e265a91b0977cd43eaf8e21add79167.png

I guess a little bit of slavery is ok?[emoji2369]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crewy5472gxo

More infrastructure for the South East. Thank goodness. Poor souls are living in the dark ages down there.[emoji849]


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[Jones28]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crewy5472gxo

More infrastructure for the South East. Thank goodness. Poor souls are living in the dark ages down there.[emoji849]


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£1.2 billion already spent on planning!

TBH for that money I'd almost be more pissed off if they didn't follow it through.

[jamie_1875]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/crewy5472gxo

More infrastructure for the South East. Thank goodness. Poor souls are living in the dark ages down there.[emoji849]


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The Barnett Consequencials will be pretty significant I guess which is a good thing for Scotland isn't it? Transport is devolved so the SG can spend it on what it wants though.

Last time there was suggested direct investment from the UKG in Scotland for infrastructure projects there was an outcry as it was bypassing Holyrood.

[Kato]

£9Billion for a tunnel. Will be up to £15Billion already and will end up costing £25billion - when it should cost under one.

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[Hibs4185]

The Barnett Consequencials will be pretty significant I guess which is a good thing for Scotland isn't it? Transport is devolved so the SG can spend it on what it wants though.

Last time there was suggested direct investment from the UKG in Scotland for infrastructure projects there was an outcry as it was bypassing Holyrood.

They’ll spend it in scotland on more infrastructure to steal our energy

[jamie_1875]

They’ll spend it in scotland on more infrastructure to steal our energy

Isn't the energy owned by the energy company who pay to extract it and then sell it on the open market?

But putting that to the side if a massive pipeline was built to send gas across the country then if Scotland was ever Independent wouldn't it be great for exporting energy? Or wouldn't an Indy Scotland want to do that?

[Jack]

Isn't the energy owned by the energy company who pay to extract it and then sell it on the open market?

But putting that to the side if a massive pipeline was built to send gas across the country then if Scotland was ever Independent wouldn't it be great for exporting energy? Or wouldn't an Indy Scotland want to do that?
It would be our choice.

[jamie_1875]

It would be our choice.

I am struggling to see where exporting energy is a choice you would choose not to do, especially if you have a surplus.

[Jack]

I am struggling to see where exporting energy is a choice you would choose not to do, especially if you have a surplus.

If there's a surplus I'd suggest it's a no brainer.

Whatever the decision, a decision made in an independent Scotland would undoubtedly be best for Scotland.

[Ozyhibby]

Isn't the energy owned by the energy company who pay to extract it and then sell it on the open market?

But putting that to the side if a massive pipeline was built to send gas across the country then if Scotland was ever Independent wouldn't it be great for exporting energy? Or wouldn't an Indy Scotland want to do that?

We export energy now but get charged for the privilege.


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[jamie_1875]

We export energy now but get charged for the privilege.


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Back to the original point, you seemed a bit upset the UK Government was spending money on the Thames tunnel, but the Barnett Consequencials will be good for Scotland and the Scottish Government can spend it on whatever it chooses.

[greenlex]

Back to the original point, you seemed a bit upset the UK Government was spending money on the Thames tunnel, but the Barnett Consequencials will be good for Scotland and the Scottish Government can spend it on whatever it chooses.

That Scotland getting back some crumbs after they took the biscuit in the first place?

[Hibrandenburg]

Back to the original point, you seemed a bit upset the UK Government was spending money on the Thames tunnel, but the Barnett Consequencials will be good for Scotland and the Scottish Government can spend it on whatever it chooses.

What about Scotland starting it's own major infrastructure projects? We can't initiate anything until England decides to spend multiple times the amount we would need for any such project. It kills initiative and promotes dependency.

[jamie_1875]

What about Scotland starting it's own major infrastructure projects? We can't initiate anything until England decides to spend multiple times the amount we would need for any such project. It kills initiative and promotes dependency.

So how did the Queensferry Crossing come about? Cost £1.3BN.

Borders Railway. Cost £350M

A9 Dualling and Upgrade. Cost £300M

I am not sure if you remember this, probably not as surprisingly we haven't heard much after the grand announcement but the SG has the powers to fund further infrastructure projects if the want. This was the FMs own words "This is an exciting opportunity to use the powers we already have to invest in infrastructure for Scotland’s future" so I am not sure that the notion of dependency and killing it initiative is strictly true.


https://www.gov.scot/news/government-bonds-to-issue-in-first-for-scotland/

"The Scottish Government will take steps to issue its first ever bond to finance key infrastructure in Scotland, the First Minister has announced.

First Minister Humza Yousaf has commissioned initial work including due diligence assessments with the aim of making the bonds available to the market by the end of the current parliamentary session.

Steps will include undertaking detailed analysis to ensure value for money can be achieved and further consideration of the potential investment opportunities in Scotland.

The First Minister said:

“Scotland has a wealth of investment opportunities. Issuing a bond will help raise Scotland’s profile and engagement with international investors to attract investment.

“This will be a first for the Scottish Government and is a significant undertaking. The next steps will involve the commissioning of detailed analysis and necessary due diligence. Subject to the successful completion of that process, the first bond will issue by the end of this parliamentary session.

“This is an exciting opportunity to use the powers we already have to invest in infrastructure for Scotland’s future. That investment in infrastructure is key to supporting the three priorities I have outlined for the Scottish Government over the next three years – delivering high quality public services, boosting a green and thriving economy and ensuring equality of opportunity for everyone.”

[Hibrandenburg]

So how did the Queensferry Crossing come about? Cost £1.3BN.

Borders Railway. Cost £350M

A9 Dualling and Upgrade. Cost £300M

I am not sure if you remember this, probably not as surprisingly we haven't heard much after the grand announcement but the SG has the powers to fund further infrastructure projects if the want. This was the FMs own words "This is an exciting opportunity to use the powers we already have to invest in infrastructure for Scotland’s future" so I am not sure that the notion of dependency and killing it initiative is strictly true.


https://www.gov.scot/news/government-bonds-to-issue-in-first-for-scotland/

"The Scottish Government will take steps to issue its first ever bond to finance key infrastructure in Scotland, the First Minister has announced.

First Minister Humza Yousaf has commissioned initial work including due diligence assessments with the aim of making the bonds available to the market by the end of the current parliamentary session.

Steps will include undertaking detailed analysis to ensure value for money can be achieved and further consideration of the potential investment opportunities in Scotland.

The First Minister said:

“Scotland has a wealth of investment opportunities. Issuing a bond will help raise Scotland’s profile and engagement with international investors to attract investment.

“This will be a first for the Scottish Government and is a significant undertaking. The next steps will involve the commissioning of detailed analysis and necessary due diligence. Subject to the successful completion of that process, the first bond will issue by the end of this parliamentary session.

“This is an exciting opportunity to use the powers we already have to invest in infrastructure for Scotland’s future. That investment in infrastructure is key to supporting the three priorities I have outlined for the Scottish Government over the next three years – delivering high quality public services, boosting a green and thriving economy and ensuring equality of opportunity for everyone.”

All good, but it doesn't change the fact that Scotland is dependent on what England spends and has limited borrowing capabilities.

[jamie_1875]

All good, but it doesn't change the fact that Scotland is dependent on what England spends and has limited borrowing capabilities.

I agree the borrowing powers need reviewed but I think what I posted above shows no reliance is needed for infrastructure projects and the powers are there if they want them. The £1.3BN bridge being a great example of that.

[Hibs4185]

I agree the borrowing powers need reviewed but I think what I posted above shows no reliance is needed for infrastructure projects and the powers are there if they want them. The £1.3BN bridge being a great example of that.

Scotland doesn’t control its own finances so the borrowing powers are a bit of fools gold.

How much can we borrow? How do we repay it? Does it come from the Devi funds? What else loses out?

If we were independent the borrowing would be paid from growth, oil resrves, energy etc.

Maybe there is limited appetite for extra borrowing unless absolute necessary.

If we borrow say £10 billion then unionists can then use is a political football to say we can’t afford to be independent. The athuejeny goes on and on.

Better not to borrow in the first place I’d say.

[Moulin Yarns]

All good, but it doesn't change the fact that Scotland is dependent on what England spends and has limited borrowing capabilities.

Not to mention that European funds helped a lot of infrastructure projects, including the A9. Possibly the Queensferry crossing and borders railway as well.

[Hibrandenburg]

I agree the borrowing powers need reviewed but I think what I posted above shows no reliance is needed for infrastructure projects and the powers are there if they want them. The £1.3BN bridge being a great example of that.

The procurement and build of the Crossing was exceptionally well executed, but £1.3 billion is well within Scotland's Barnett Block Grant. Scotland needs to modernise and extend its infrastructure which would cost a **** load more, not sure what England would have to buy to free up enough pocket money for Scotland to make a serious attempt at doing that what is desperately needed.

[Hibrandenburg]

Not to mention that European funds helped a lot of infrastructure projects, including the A9. Possibly the Queensferry crossing and borders railway as well.

:agree:
Leaving the EU hit the regions outside of the Home Counties particularly hard in this respect.

[jamie_1875]

Scotland doesn’t control its own finances so the borrowing powers are a bit of fools gold.

How much can we borrow? How do we repay it? Does it come from the Devi funds? What else loses out?

If we were independent the borrowing would be paid from growth, oil resrves, energy etc.

Maybe there is limited appetite for extra borrowing unless absolute necessary.

If we borrow say £10 billion then unionists can then use is a political football to say we can’t afford to be independent. The athuejeny goes on and on.

Better not to borrow in the first place I’d say.

Lots of questions there but the Scottish Government does have control on what it spends it's many billions of pounds budget on, some spending is reserved some is devolved and that's the way the system works. We have benefits in Scotland that nobody else has, that's not something a government with no control and power on spending has, but I understand what you mean that the overall budget is decided in Westminster, but that's what the people voted for.

Probably best sticking it in the Indy thread.

[jamie_1875]

Not to mention that European funds helped a lot of infrastructure projects, including the A9. Possibly the Queensferry crossing and borders railway as well.

Leaving the EU was a big mistake, cost us all.

[Andy Bee]

Lots of questions there but the Scottish Government does have control on what it spends it's many billions of pounds budget on, some spending is reserved some is devolved and that's the way the system works. We have benefits in Scotland that nobody else has, that's not something a government with no control and power on spending has, but I understand what you mean that the overall budget is decided in Westminster, but that's what the people voted for.

Probably best sticking it in the Indy thread.

The SG has borrowing limits of £500m a year and a total ceiling of £3bn, in a country where GDP is around £250bn that's small change and limits the power of the SG to spend what's needed on infrastructure, see Acorn and the various hydro projects for proof of that. We're in the process of a green revolution on the scale of last centuries Industrial revolution and we've got one hand tied behind our backs whilst having some of the greatest resources in the world. We need our own currency sharpish.

[Jack]

With regards to the Queensferry Crossing the Scottish Government did need permission from Westminster "The primary legislation for the Queensferry Crossing, now known as the Forth Replacement Crossing, is the Forth Crossing Act 2011, which granted powers to the Scottish Ministers to construct the new crossing and related infrastructure."

The Scottish Government was also not allowed to build the 6 lane bridge it wanted to. Cunningly the Scottish Government built a hard shoulder that can be used as a 3rd lane if Westminster ever allow it.

[Ozyhibby]

OBR saying government are not going to hit their house building target. Not exactly shocking news when you waste your first year in office with no improvement.


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[Jones28]

Has this Chancellor-took-free-concert tickets thing been done to death yet or what?

We've got bigger things to worry about than a politician taking a relative to a concert. She's a politician but doesn't mean she has to live in a cave ffs.

[Ozyhibby]

Has this Chancellor-took-free-concert tickets thing been done to death yet or what?

We've got bigger things to worry about than a politician taking a relative to a concert. She's a politician but doesn't mean she has to live in a cave ffs.

Especially when she is doing such a fine job.[emoji106][emoji23]


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[Bostonhibby]

Especially when she is doing such a fine job.[emoji106][emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkAgree but she's got a long way to go to plumb the depths Kwazi Kwarteng et al managed, and in such a short space of time[emoji6]

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[Jones28]

Especially when she is doing such a fine job.[emoji106][emoji23]


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I’ve lived my whole life adult life under austerity, this is normality for me 😂

[Ozyhibby]

OBR just halved all our growth predictions for next 5 years due to Trumps tariffs that we are just accepting. Less than 1% for next 5 years.


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[jamie_1875]

OBR just halved all our growth predictions for next 5 years due to Trumps tariffs that we are just accepting. Less than 1% for next 5 years.


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Some good news from the OBR.

"The government’s reforms to the UK’s planning system will result in housebuilding being at its highest level in over 40 years, the OBR has concluded in its forecast for today’s Spring Statement"

[Moulin Yarns]

Some good news from the OBR.

"The government’s reforms to the UK’s planning system will result in housebuilding being at its highest level in over 40 years, the OBR has concluded in its forecast for today’s Spring Statement"

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g0nv2e70do



(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g0nv2e70do)The government will not get close to the extra homes needed to hit its housing target in England, official figures suggest.
Angela Rayner's plan for 1.5m new homes by 2029 is seen as crucial to solving the housing crisis and boosting economic growth.
But latest estimates from the Office for Budget Responsibility (OBR) suggest the government will fall short of that figure, even with planning reforms outlined in the chancellor's Spring Statement on Wednesday.



(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g0nv2e70do)

[CropleyWasGod]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g0nv2e70do



(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g0nv2e70do)

Both can be correct, no?

[jamie_1875]

Both can be correct, no?

Yep, but it's the biased BBC again isn't it. Let's see the positive in it and house building being the highest for 40 years hopefully.

[jamie_1875]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g0nv2e70do



(https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4g0nv2e70do)

You can still build the highest number of houses in 40 years and miss your target.

Happy to help. 😂

[cabbageandribs1875]

shower o wee teets

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/486390997_3830683543908873_2252355711906057251_n.j pg?_nc_cat=106&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=tvUWTSczVyIQ7kNvgFD8c_9&_nc_oc=AdnvsSvDZurHwYbXOSbbCDT5AhPcLX6Vy_AwJtwDU5C mO2ZdF7uJC_RMXTDRxdjSFgA&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=tNfU4eAKZBLmbJ2iW-J7-Q&oh=00_AYG0XH-GTbya7PxexvPF7_WUFXxz_Cni0WV2mG_7evLTYA&oe=67EB9903

[Ozyhibby]

You can still build the highest number of houses in 40 years and miss your target.

Happy to help. [emoji23]

Let’s hope so. They are the lowest this year for 12 years so already a lot of catching up to do. Lucky for them there is a huge skilled workforce just waiting on them getting their **** together so they can jump into action.[emoji106]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cq5zn282yl1o

Scotland could and should have lowest bills in Europe. We were the ones who allowed onshore wind to go ahead when England didn’t but we have to have bills based on their generation. If Labour don’t allow this they should be finished in Scotland.
Turning off windmills and paying them to do so rather than give Scots cheaper energy should be a crime.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

and some still believe whatever this dude says, a vote for the new British Labour party is a vote for Conservatism, said it as soon as that goat got the the leadership... :agree:



https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/487058846_1078318507658907_6852369075283148210_n.j pg?_nc_cat=100&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=N4RibEupvVMQ7kNvgH6a9YL&_nc_oc=AdmAUHJatj7Qu2AbnoqfsgHB2CS8rSs_IXBX253X670 PNxheOxOXqJLQ4KZ__xRFcrA&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=mwtMkFlWZfxkKQvIVGGDrQ&oh=00_AYEEDebqemwcbQKOmIYQEdvwEjdtHkkf96lEqllc4aHm hg&oe=67ED21C2

[cabbageandribs1875]

oh goody, more Donations for one of the biggest Tories in the new new British Labour Party, a tasty £53k from a private health recruiter.... that's awfully nice of them, of course they've done that as a freebie, haven't they ? Wes Streeting takes £53k from private health recruiter pre-NHS job cuts | The National (https://www.thenational.scot/news/25047376.wes-streeting-takes-53k-private-health-recruiter-pre-nhs-cuts/?ref=eb&nid=1948&block=article_block_a&u=8c7cbcbaa1741d7cbc339fe13eff0274&date=280325)

[lapsedhibee]

oh goody, more Donations for one of the biggest Tories in the new new British Labour Party, a tasty £53k from a private health recruiter.... that's awfully nice of them, of course they've done that as a freebie, haven't they ? Wes Streeting takes £53k from private health recruiter pre-NHS job cuts | The National (https://www.thenational.scot/news/25047376.wes-streeting-takes-53k-private-health-recruiter-pre-nhs-cuts/?ref=eb&nid=1948&block=article_block_a&u=8c7cbcbaa1741d7cbc339fe13eff0274&date=280325)
Why is that even legal?

[Stairway 2 7]

Never mind adolescence Starmer should host a round table on the film 'I, Daniel Blake' maybe?

[MKHIBEE]

oh goody, more Donations for one of the biggest Tories in the new new British Labour Party, a tasty £53k from a private health recruiter.... that's awfully nice of them, of course they've done that as a freebie, haven't they ? Wes Streeting takes £53k from private health recruiter pre-NHS job cuts | The National (https://www.thenational.scot/news/25047376.wes-streeting-takes-53k-private-health-recruiter-pre-nhs-cuts/?ref=eb&nid=1948&block=article_block_a&u=8c7cbcbaa1741d7cbc339fe13eff0274&date=280325)

To be added to the £175000 he has already pocketed from companies with private health links. Should be a jailable offence.

[Bostonhibby]

To be added to the £175000 he has already pocketed from companies with private health links. Should be a jailable offence.Streeting alone could be the reason this Labour supporter will be looking elsewhere next time around.

The decision has already been made for council and local elections.

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[cabbageandribs1875]

Why is that even legal?


To be added to the £175000 he has already pocketed from companies with private health links. Should be a jailable offence.

wait, at least something to laugh about on this fine April fool's day...phew


https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/487507152_1001715585398999_7229891130629972212_n.j pg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=1g9eSm3lmqkQ7kNvgE6RTst&_nc_oc=AdkAf3e-CDf2jOSAm_yw0rhmRKcvrRgV8AT6HTNZcyU8_XBo803jbLIATs 3Npooke08&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=QJsQRNCoK0Yn6ORjnBeROA&oh=00_AYFTJGNew8la2OijckKaHGMVGYF6q856Rr7C7m1PYXLE sw&oe=67F21DC5

[Jack]

To be added to the £175000 he has already pocketed from companies with private health links. Should be a jailable offence.

Over £500,000 since 2015.

[greenlex]

wait, at least something to laugh about on this fine April fool's day...phew


https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/487507152_1001715585398999_7229891130629972212_n.j pg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=1g9eSm3lmqkQ7kNvgE6RTst&_nc_oc=AdkAf3e-CDf2jOSAm_yw0rhmRKcvrRgV8AT6HTNZcyU8_XBo803jbLIATs 3Npooke08&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=QJsQRNCoK0Yn6ORjnBeROA&oh=00_AYFTJGNew8la2OijckKaHGMVGYF6q856Rr7C7m1PYXLE sw&oe=67F21DC5

And all this before US tariffs

[MKHIBEE]

Streeting alone could be the reason this Labour supporter will be looking elsewhere next time around.

The decision has already been made for council and local elections.

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Unfortunately I think Starmer is making it very difficuilt for Labours previous core voters to continue to support them. The last election was the first time in 50 years I didn’t vote Labour, I don’t see myself ever voting for them again.

[Bostonhibby]

Unfortunately I think Starmer is making it very difficuilt for Labours previous core voters to continue to support them. The last election was the first time in 50 years I didn’t vote Labour, I don’t see myself ever voting for them again.An actual socialist alternative is getting hard to find. The nearest I've seen to socialist policy in the UK is the SNP.

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[wookie70]

An actual socialist alternative is getting hard to find. The nearest I've seen to socialist policy in the UK is the SNP.

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The SNP are miles away from a Socialist Party and I don't think I would describe Labour as anything apart from a Capitalist Right Wing Party, at least at Parliamentary level. Since I first voted in the mid 80s the Overton Window has moved to the point where the Labour Party is a good deal to the right of Thatcher and even further to the right than the Tory Parties that preceded her. Take a look at the Tory manifesto (http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1959/1959-conservative-manifesto.shtml) from the end of the 1950s to see how times have changed.

[Bostonhibby]

The SNP are miles away from a Socialist Party and I don't think I would describe Labour as anything apart from a Capitalist Right Wing Party, at least at Parliamentary level. Since I first voted in the mid 80s the Overton Window has moved to the point where the Labour Party is a good deal to the right of Thatcher and even further to the right than the Tory Parties that preceded her. Take a look at the Tory manifesto (http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1959/1959-conservative-manifesto.shtml) from the end of the 1950s to see how times have changed.Trust me, if you live on the heart of Brexitland with reform MP's on your constituency doorstep some of what SNP have done looks to be more socialist than we see down here where the locals think it stands for the Special Nigel Party.

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[The Tubs]

The SNP are miles away from a Socialist Party and I don't think I would describe Labour as anything apart from a Capitalist Right Wing Party, at least at Parliamentary level. Since I first voted in the mid 80s the Overton Window has moved to the point where the Labour Party is a good deal to the right of Thatcher and even further to the right than the Tory Parties that preceded her. Take a look at the Tory manifesto (http://www.conservativemanifesto.com/1959/1959-conservative-manifesto.shtml) from the end of the 1950s to see how times have changed.

Sterling is the currency in which nearly half the world's trade is done.

This sentence alone tells you how much the world has changed. It's irrelevant to compare.

[wookie70]

Trust me, if you live on the heart of Brexitland with reform MP's on your constituency doorstep some of what SNP have done looks to be more socialist than we see down here where the locals think it stands for the Special Nigel Party.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk More to the left/socialist doesn't mean the SNP are socialist though

[wookie70]

Sterling is the currency in which nearly half the world's trade is done.

This sentence alone tells you how much the world has changed. It's irrelevant to compare. It is a very different world I agree but they were not privatising were building and maintaining council house stock and other things we could only dream about the Labour Party doing now. That manifesto would have been viewed as centre right back in the day and would now be considered well to the left of Starmer and Blair

[Jack]

More to the left/socialist doesn't mean the SNP are socialist though

I think many people forget the only policy the SNP are likely to agree on en masse is independence.

Everything else will be decided by a broad church of views. While it's quite easy to spot the lefties in the party the conservative type are still very much there being soft conservatives.

[Bostonhibby]

More to the left/socialist doesn't mean the SNP are socialist thoughBelieve it or not, I know that- an idealistic and misguided SWP supporter in my youth and ex Labour party member..........

In UK terms I can see stuff they've done that as a minimum, and in comparison, is more socialist looking than elsewhere in the country. Social care, access to GP's being examples though it's probably a low bar in both cases.

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