The future of the Labour Party

[Mr Grieves]

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/98463/senior-labour-official-plunged-sectarian-row-over

After the Hugh Gaffney and anti-Semitism controversies he should really know better.

[cabbageandribs1875]

so, a critic of corbyn is in discussions with the police for 24 hour protection due to threats from the loony far lefties, what a vile political party Labour has become, it's ******* shameful, and now their poxy annual conference has made it easier for local party members to deselect sitting MP's, watch out decent labour MP's...the loony far lefties are after yi :agree:

[Moulin Yarns]

so, a critic of corbyn is in discussions with the police for 24 hour protection due to threats from the loony far lefties, what a vile political party Labour has become, it's ******* shameful, and now their poxy annual conference has made it easier for local party members to deselect sitting MP's, watch out decent labour MP's...the loony far lefties are after yi :agree:

Who are you referring to?

Mon Scottish Labour 🤔

[JimBHibees]

https://www.politicshome.com/news/uk/political-parties/labour-party/news/98463/senior-labour-official-plunged-sectarian-row-over

After the Hugh Gaffney and anti-Semitism controversies he should really know better.

Very shameful that even more so given the latest controversies.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Some numpty Labour MP now calling for a general strike to bring down the Tories and force a general election. :faf:
Shambles of a party. They forget we had one last year, and they lost?

[Pete]

Erm, anyway.

What a fantastic, energetic conference and some great speeches, especially from Mr Corbyn. Some flesh put on the bones of real socialist policies that will ensure more wealth distribution and less profiteering from our infrastructure. It would be interesting to hear from other Labour members who are slightly more to the right...any of them unworkable? Any you like the look of?

The future of the Labour Party? It looks like they’re coming to a government near you. :aok:

[marinello59]

Some numpty Labour MP now calling for a general strike to bring down the Tories and force a general election. :faf:
Shambles of a party. They forget we had one last year, and they lost?

It was a lone voice calling for a general strike, every party has them. The leadership has distanced themselves from her views. But if somebody calling for the Labpur movement using their latent power to force a Tory government to relinquish power offends you vote for one of the centre right parties . The SNP or the Tories will both welcome you.

[marinello59]

Erm, anyway.

What a fantastic, energetic conference and some great speeches, especially from Mr Corbyn. Some flesh put on the bones of real socialist policies that will ensure more wealth distribution and less profiteering from our infrastructure. It would be interesting to hear from other Labour members who are slightly more to the right...any of them unworkable? Any you like the look of?

The future of the Labour Party? It looks like they’re coming to a government near you. :aok:

There were some interesting policies put forward. I found Corbyn’s speech pedestrian at best and he did little to deal with the anti-semitism stuff .

[GlesgaeHibby]

It was a lone voice calling for a general strike, every party has them. The leadership has distanced themselves from her views. But if somebody calling for the Labpur movement using their latent power to force a Tory government to relinquish power offends you vote for one of the centre right parties . The SNP or the Tories will both welcome you.

Drew plenty cheers from Mobmentum. I'd love to see this Tory government booted out, but the Labour party are not fit to govern. There is also nothing to suggest Corbyn would win this time round either - had his chance last year and still fell short. Opinion polls still show the Tories having a slender lead over Labour.

[G B Young]

There were some interesting policies put forward. I found Corbyn’s speech pedestrian at best and he did little to deal with the anti-semitism stuff .

The prospect of this clown getting anywhere near number 10 would be laughable if it wasn't for the fact the Tories are doing their best to make it a possibility. A half competent Tory leader would brush Corbyn aside with ease (as Cameron used to do).

Corbyn is a dim-witted frontman. He's in his element playing out his 'greatest hits' in front of the converted but is hopeless when pressed on any kind of detail. Witness the footage included here of him seemingly listing the 'six tests' Labour have apparently set down that the Brexit deal must meet before they'll vote for it. He appears to know them, yet when Kuenssberg reads the actual 'tests' back to him he appears to have got them all wrong!

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/correspondents/laurakuenssberg

[heretoday]

Labour might do very well in Brexit Britain. Win the next election and nationalise everything.

[Hibbyradge]

Labour might do very well in Brexit Britain. Win the next election and nationalise everything.

How could they afford to do that?

[G B Young]

How could they afford to do that?

Hefty tax rises. But they don't admit that. Talk of 'investment' sounds so much more appealing.

[RyeSloan]

Hefty tax rises. But they don't admit that. Talk of 'investment' sounds so much more appealing.

Did McDonald not actually state that it would ‘cost free’

I’ve been following a few of the Labour proposals. All typical stocks beating the ‘rich’ stuff and particularly liked his proposed theft of 10% of all U.K. listed companies.

[Pete]

Did McDonald not actually state that it would ‘cost free’

I’ve been following a few of the Labour proposals. All typical stocks beating the ‘rich’ stuff and particularly liked his proposed theft of 10% of all U.K. listed companies.

That’s one way of looking at it. Another way is looking at who actually is responsible for the accumulation of the wealth.

A mere 10% stake for the “workers” might be considered theft when you consider general wealth distribution.

[RyeSloan]

That’s one way of looking at it. Another way is looking at who actually is responsible for the accumulation of the wealth.

A mere 10% stake for the “workers” might be considered theft when you consider general wealth distribution.

It’s not for the workers though is it. They can’t buy or sell ‘their’ stake so they don’t accumulate anything.

There is also already two mechanisms for workers to get shares in the company they work for SAYE and SIP’s.

IF Labour were genuine in wanting workers to share in their companies success more (there is already hundreds of companies offering SAYE and SIP) then simply extend the compulsion for companies to offer these and/or make the terms of these more generous (currently restricted by, yes you guessed it, the tax man).

And of course you are stuffed if you work for the postal service, an energy company or a rail operator as clearly Labour don’t think you deserve even a pseudo stake in those companies.

It is larceny on an epic scale to propose 10% of listed firms (companies that many many people will have holdings in either directly or indirectly through their pensions) is appropriated by the state, for the state under the thin veil of ‘for the workers’.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Hefty tax rises. But they don't admit that. Talk of 'investment' sounds so much more appealing.



Labour= the spend spend spend, tax tax tax party, FACT :agree:

[cabbageandribs1875]

How could they afford to do that?



by waving the magic money tree again, the one they waved about leading up to the last GE but soon backtracked on after they lost, Liebour is a very apt name for that lot :agree:

[Colr]

Once again Labour have some good policy ideas but say too many things which limits their appeal to the core left wing. They are still behind the tories in the polls.

[Pete]

Once again Labour have some good policy ideas but say too many things which limits their appeal to the core left wing. They are still behind the tories in the polls.

I’m sure they were ahead last week. I wouldn’t be paying attention to any polls until it’s coming up for an election and even then they can be misleading.

[Chic Murray]

Labour= the spend spend spend, tax tax tax party, FACT :agree:

Why do you say that, and what does it actually mean?

[RyeSloan]

Why do you say that, and what does it actually mean?

It means the Labour manifesto promised at least £55bn (or £90bn depending on who you believe) of extra spending and the equivalent tax rises.

They also promised to borrow an extra £35bn a year for their national investment bank.

So more like spend spend, tax tax, borrow borrow.

[Chic Murray]

It means the Labour manifesto promised at least £55bn (or £90bn depending on who you believe) of extra spending and the equivalent tax rises.

They also promised to borrow an extra £35bn a year for their national investment bank.

So more like spend spend, tax tax, borrow borrow.

Right, so we should just accept the status quo then? Because we aren't really getting anywhere, are we?

What would you propose to get Britain out of its malaise?

[Mibbes Aye]

Labour= the spend spend spend, tax tax tax party, FACT :agree:

All parties in power tax and spend.

Are you suggesting that we should pay less tax and have less public spending? If so, in what areas do we cut spending and are you talking about taxation at local, Scotland or UK level?

Interestingly, surveys over the last couple of years show that a majority of voters are prepared to pay more tax if it is hypothecated to the NHS. This perhaps reflects the rather ingrained attachment we have to our 'free at the point of care' health system. Nevertheless, the cost of yet more sophisticated ways of keeping an older population alive for longer, often with expensive but not life-limiting health conditions means that the cost of the NHS has, is and will continue to rise.

Where does the money for that come from?

[RyeSloan]

Right, so we should just accept the status quo then? Because we aren't really getting anywhere, are we?

What would you propose to get Britain out of its malaise?

I was merely pointing out that the poster wasn’t wrong in stating that Labour plan to spend more, tax more, borrow more.

But as for your question I would suggest that without understanding what you mean by malaise and where you think we should be getting to it’s a touch unfair for me to be asked to propose anything [emoji6]

[Hibernia&Alba]

I was merely pointing out that the poster wasn’t wrong in stating that Labour plan to spend more, tax more, borrow more.

But as for your question I would suggest that without understanding what you mean by malaise and where you think we should be getting to it’s a touch unfair for me to be asked to propose anything [emoji6]

Surely such terms are a man made framework i.e. a form of alchemy which exists only because someone says it does? We accept these concepts, living by numbers, as we humans are the only animal which use a money system, but it's all a computerised system now. What actually is money; where does it come from and why do we allow it to control our lives? Is this why we are born; to conform to a system which controls our lives by numbers next to our name? Who created these numbers and what if I reject their significance? Is my value as a person really dependent upon the money value I can say I have?

[Smartie]

All parties in power tax and spend.

Are you suggesting that we should pay less tax and have less public spending? If so, in what areas do we cut spending and are you talking about taxation at local, Scotland or UK level?

Interestingly, surveys over the last couple of years show that a majority of voters are prepared to pay more tax if it is hypothecated to the NHS. This perhaps reflects the rather ingrained attachment we have to our 'free at the point of care' health system. Nevertheless, the cost of yet more sophisticated ways of keeping an older population alive for longer, often with expensive but not life-limiting health conditions means that the cost of the NHS has, is and will continue to rise.

Where does the money for that come from?

I think we need to have a conversation at national level about this subject.

This is why we feel like we have less and less - more is required to look after a growing section of our population whose contributing days are behind them.

Not the EU, being "ruled from Westminster" or people coming here and taking x, y or z.

Tbh I'm less fussed how we do it (tax and spend or every man for himself) but more that we acknowledge that we have a problem and come up with a collective plan to deal with it.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Surely such terms are a man made framework i.e. a form of alchemy which exists only because someone says it does? We accept these concepts, living by numbers, as we humans are the only animal which use a money system, but it's all a computerised system now. What actually is money; where does it come from and why do we allow it to control our lives? Is this why we are born; to conform to a system which controls our lives by numbers next to our name? Who created these numbers and what if I reject their significance? Is my value as a person really dependent upon the money value I can say I have?

Now THAT is one philosophical sucker of a post!

[G B Young]

Not Liddle's biggest fan but he puts that Corbynista t**t Lavery in his place here:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/watch-rod-liddle-takes-corbyn-to-task-on-question-time/

[lapsedhibee]

Surely such terms are a man made framework i.e. a form of alchemy which exists only because someone says it does? We accept these concepts, living by numbers, as we humans are the only animal which use a money system, but it's all a computerised system now. What actually is money; where does it come from and why do we allow it to control our lives? Is this why we are born; to conform to a system which controls our lives by numbers next to our name? Who created these numbers and what if I reject their significance? Is my value as a person really dependent upon the money value I can say I have?

All good questions, but you're forgetting Rosie Redknapp.

[Hibbyradge]

All good questions, but you're forgetting Rosie Redknapp.

Very good! :tee hee:

[CropleyWasGod]

Nice...

https://twitter.com/AnasSarwar/status/1047883087114391552?s=19

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Hiber-nation]

Nice...

https://twitter.com/AnasSarwar/status/1047883087114391552?s=19

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

Jings....lunatics well and truly taking over the asylum.

[ronaldo7]

They got him right between the shoulder blades, with a rather sharp blade of their own.

They've not replaced him with, Monica Lennon, have they?

Any old bandwagon will do for, Monica. 😁

[cabbageandribs1875]

what a class act Richard Leotard and his Scottish Labour Unionist party is, eh



wonder if he was also anti-corbyn

[marinello59]

Nice...

https://twitter.com/AnasSarwar/status/1047883087114391552?s=19

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

It looks like they are going out of their way to alienate people. What a shambles.

[Moulin Yarns]

what a class act Richard Leotard and his Scottish Labour Unionist party is, eh



wonder if he was also anti-corbyn



OK. I'll have to say it.

Mon Scottish Labour 😁

[Bristolhibby]

It means the Labour manifesto promised at least £55bn (or £90bn depending on who you believe) of extra spending and the equivalent tax rises.

They also promised to borrow an extra £35bn a year for their national investment bank.

So more like spend spend, tax tax, borrow borrow.

Hmmm

https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/uk_government_debt_in_cash.png

[RyeSloan]

Hmmm

https://fullfact.org/media/uploads/uk_government_debt_in_cash.png

It’s not adjusted for inflation and any fule knows that if you run deficits you increase your debt.

A more realistic picture of the what’s gone on would be this:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181004/ec7a128ba2b7aae8fd659e844734138c.png

[Bristolhibby]

It’s not adjusted for inflation and any fule knows that if you run deficits you increase your debt.

A more realistic picture of the what’s gone on would be this:

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181004/ec7a128ba2b7aae8fd659e844734138c.png

So borrowing spiked to cover the crash. Just what every other Government around the world was doing.

I would say the Tories would have been doing the same if they were at the helm. Their greatest triumph was convincing the electorate that Labour caused the Global Financial Crisis, that they were to blame.

As far as I’m aware Iceland was the only country that took a different approach and let the banks collapse and bankers go to jail.

J

[Pete]

Not Liddle's biggest fan but he puts that Corbynista t**t Lavery in his place here:

https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2018/09/watch-rod-liddle-takes-corbyn-to-task-on-question-time/

Hardly “put in his place”, was he?

All he did was spout more lazy crap that the right wing media spout every day. “Hypocrites, terrorists, Cuba, Venezuela blah blah”

Desperate stuff.

[Bristolhibby]

Hardly “put in his place”, was he?

All he did was spout more lazy crap that the right wing media spout every day. “Hypocrites, terrorists, Cuba, Venezuela blah blah”

Desperate stuff.

The Spectator talking about Rod Little, tells me all I need to know.

Like you said “IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah, Soviet Union, Cuba, Venezuela“. Is a tired old trope.

While I’m on it, since when did talking and negotiating with your enemies become a bad thing?

When you strip it down, if you militarily can’t win a war (by killing them all) like in Northern Ireland, you ultimately have to sit down and negotiate.

We should be more critical of why it took so long to find a peaceful settlement in NI? Doing the same thing again and again, expecting something different and getting the same reaction is the definition of insanity.

J

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

The Spectator talking about Rod Little, tells me all I need to know.

Like you said “IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah, Soviet Union, Cuba, Venezuela“. Is a tired old trope.

While I’m on it, since when did talking and negotiating with your enemies become a bad thing?

When you strip it down, if you militarily can’t win a war (by killing them all) like in Northern Ireland, you ultimately have to sit down and negotiate.

We should be more critical of why it took so long to find a peaceful settlement in NI? Doing the same thing again and again, expecting something different and getting the same reaction is the definition of insanity.

J

Negotiating with your enemies isn't a bad thing, but supporting them is.

Corbyn is an anti-westwrn hard left type, who has supported every 'underdog' going. That's fine when you are a backbench nobody. It becomes a very legitimate problem when you aspire to take control of the armed forces.

[Hibbyradge]

The Spectator talking about Rod Little, tells me all I need to know.

Like you said “IRA, Hamas, Hezbollah, Soviet Union, Cuba, Venezuela“. Is a tired old trope.

While I’m on it, since when did talking and negotiating with your enemies become a bad thing?

When you strip it down, if you militarily can’t win a war (by killing them all) like in Northern Ireland, you ultimately have to sit down and negotiate.

We should be more critical of why it took so long to find a peaceful settlement in NI? Doing the same thing again and again, expecting something different and getting the same reaction is the definition of insanity.

J

I'm not buying that, BH, and I doubt anyone else is either.

Corbyn has never negotiated with his enemies. He's had cosy chats with his friends, or the friends of his ideologies.

He's voted against the government hundreds of times, often to protect his "friends", or rather save face with them.

Can you point to any success he's had in these negotiations? Trump has had more success with North Korea and that's only lip service success.

[Bristolhibby]

It would be a dangerous place if Parliament was totally for one course of action without any dissenting voices.

Intresting fact checking by Channel 4.

https://www.channel4.com/news/factcheck/factcheck-corbyn-on-northern-ireland

J

[Pete]

Negotiating with your enemies isn't a bad thing, but supporting them is.

Corbyn is an anti-westwrn hard left type, who has supported every 'underdog' going. That's fine when you are a backbench nobody. It becomes a very legitimate problem when you aspire to take control of the armed forces.

At first, I thought Jeremy Corbyn hated the army and wanted to abolish them because he hates Britain.

Now it’s possible that he could team them up with Hezbolla, Hamas and the IRA to go to war with democracy, I’m definitely going to play it safe at the ballot box.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

At first, I thought Jeremy Corbyn hated the army and wanted to abolish them because he hates Britain.

Now it’s possible that he could team them up with Hezbolla, Hamas and the IRA to go to war with democracy, I’m definitely going to play it safe at the ballot box.


Very droll

[Pete]

Very droll

Come on, you have to admit that some of the scaremongering is indeed outrageous.

[lucky]

Good move by Richard Leonard, Sarwar and Ballie were being disruptive within the Labour group. Some of these MSPs need to realise that new Labour is dead. The loyalty to Kez over being sued was the final nail in their political coffins. Dugdale got paid for going into the jungle but wanted ordinary party members to pay legal expenses and Ballie and Sarwar were leading the charge in the labour group. Hopefully they will all be replaced by socialists who represent the people not themselves

[CropleyWasGod]

Good move by Richard Leonard, Sarwar and Ballie were being disruptive within the Labour group. Some of these MSPs need to realise that new Labour is dead. The loyalty to Kez over being sued was the final nail in their political coffins. Dugdale got paid for going into the jungle but wanted ordinary party members to pay legal expenses and Ballie and Sarwar were leading the charge in the labour group. Hopefully they will all be replaced by socialists who represent the people not themselvesI'm not sure people are criticising the motives, more the way Sarwar in particular learned about his sacking.

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

Come on, you have to admit that some of the scaremongering is indeed outrageous.

Probably a bit, yeah. But I think those concerns are valid.

[ronaldo7]

Is, Alex Rowley, really back on the front bench?

Labour punching above their weight again. 🙈

[Pete]

Is, Alex Rowley, really back on the front bench?

Labour punching above their weight again. 🙈

Can you elaborate on your problem with Alex Rowley?

(Without the use of hilarious, esoteric one-liners)

[ronaldo7]

Can you elaborate on your problem with Alex Rowley?

(Without the use of hilarious, esoteric one-liners)

Who said I have a problem with, Rowley? You've just made that up, pistol.

Fwiw, I'm happy that he's been returned to the front bench as one of your, "big hitters".

It shows the lack of depth in the branch office.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Now THAT is one philosophical sucker of a post!

There is an excellent book titled 'Where Does Money Come From'?, written by four economists and investigative journalists, which I would highly recommend. Nobody in public life seems to ask this question; rather, they accept an axiom which says economics has 'laws', when in fact, it does not, but only has theories. The entire system is man made. Gravity is a law; money and economics are social constructs which serve ideological viewpoints, yet we are led to believe they are unalterable laws of reality. In fact it's a manufactured reality which could be changed at any time. They money system is, I say again, alchemy: a fiction which we abide by from birth and which is seemingly never questioned.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

There is an excellent book titled 'Where Does Money Come From'?, written by four economists and investigative journalists, which I would highly recommend. Nobody in public life seems to ask this question; rather, they accept an axiom which says economics has 'laws', when in fact, it does not, but only has theories. The entire system is man made. Gravity is a law; money and economics are social constructs which serve ideological viewpoints, yet we are led to believe they are unalterable laws of reality. In fact it's a manufactured reality which could be changed at any time. They money system is, I say again, alchemy: a fiction which we abide by from birth and which is seemingly never questioned.

Ill have a look out for the book.

Of course, money and economics are human constructs, but they were constructed to bring order to human behaviour - possibly or possibly not instrinsic - to barter and value for things. Its simpmy a universally recognised way of assigning a value to something (or everything!).

Id view it much the same as democracy, ots the worst system except for all others that habe been tried, but im open to persuasion.

Ps i ahree on economics, it is a social science based on history, behavious etc, just like sociology and psychology.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Ill have a look out for the book.

Of course, money and economics are human constructs, but they were constructed to bring order to human behaviour - possibly or possibly not instrinsic - to barter and value for things. Its simpmy a universally recognised way of assigning a value to something (or everything!).

Id view it much the same as democracy, ots the worst system except for all others that habe been tried, but im open to persuasion.

Ps i ahree on economics, it is a social science based on history, behavious etc, just like sociology and psychology.

The thing is we accept people going hungry or without shelter and employment as a result of 'economics', yet I've heard very few people figures question the foundation of this situation; rather, the vast majority accept the premise of the system, as if it's infallible, then try to apply these 'rules' to minimise the drawbacks. This is crazy: there is no need to accept these 'rules' a priori, for it is a human construct which originates from an ideology. Seldom do we get back to first principles and question the foundation of the money system: where does it originate? Who was it designed to serve? Why do we never question its efficacy or legitimacy?

As you said, these are philosophical questions. My background is philosophy, not economics; but why do allow this system to control us, rather than the way around, when it's man made? Other than Tony Benn, I haven't heard any British politician question the validity of the very thing which controls our lives. We talk about 'the economy' as if it's something separate from those who do the work, when, in fact, they are the economy. Marx discussed this in great detail, yet those who accept the axiom of the money system have succeeded in erasing him from discourse. It's a con which prevents our examining what our painfully short lives are really for.

[Pete]

Who said I have a problem with, Rowley? You've just made that up, pistol.

Fwiw, I'm happy that he's been returned to the front bench as one of your, "big hitters".

It shows the lack of depth in the branch office.

Erm, your post suggested you had a problem with Alex Rowley. Why make the post otherwise?

Lack of depth? When it comes to principles and beliefs, Alex Rowley certainly isn’t lacking in that department.

I’m sorry my flag bearing friend but nationalism is part of the past.

[Pete]

The thing is we accept people going hungry or without shelter and employment as a result of 'economics', yet I've heard very few people figures question the foundation of this situation; rather, the vast majority accept the premise of the system, as if it's infallible, then try to apply these 'rules' to minimise the drawbacks. This is crazy: there is no need to accept these 'rules' a priori, for it is a human construct which originates from an ideology. Seldom do we get back to first principles and question the foundation of the money system: where does it originate? Who was it designed to serve? Why do we never question its efficacy or legitimacy?

As you said, these are philosophical questions. My background is philosophy, not economics; but why do allow this system to control us, rather than the way around, when it's man made? Other than Tony Benn, I haven't heard any British politician question the validity of the very thing which controls our lives. We talk about 'the economy' as if it's something separate from those who do the work, when, in fact, they are the economy. Marx discussed this in great detail, yet those who accept the axiom of the money system have succeeded in erasing him from discourse. It's a con which prevents our examining what our painfully short lives are really for.

The only plus side is that it’s only a matter of time before this “market society” that we have become, has its kickback.

Enough is enough.

[ronaldo7]

Erm, your post suggested you had a problem with Alex Rowley. Why make the post otherwise?

Lack of depth? When it comes to principles and beliefs, Alex Rowley certainly isn’t lacking in that department.

I’m sorry my flag bearing friend but nationalism is part of the past.


Speaking of flag bearing friends, maybe Alex can try and stop his comrades in North Lanarkshire voting with the Tories(again) to stop them spending cash on a new flag pole to fly the union flag, whilst people in that county have to visit foodbanks. Oops, they've already voted.

Wrapping themselves up in the flag of the union is their type of nationalism, but that's ok though.

Jeremy can give us a rendition of, Jerusalem, whilst they raise their standard each morning. How very progressive.

British nationalism, alive and well in the British Labour party in Scotland.

[One Day Soon]

All political nationalism is direly inward looking, whether you wrap it in a Union Jack or a Saltire. Two cheeks etc.

[RyeSloan]

All political nationalism is direly inward looking, whether you wrap it in a Union Jack or a Saltire. Two cheeks etc.

Ahh yes but forget about the flag what about the flag pole?

I mean if only we just didn’t have flag poles then there would be no means to fly the flags and, by the most obvious extension of logic seen on here for a long time, no need for food banks.

Time for a flag pole debate I think...would be much much better than a flag debate.

[JeMeSouviens]

Ahh yes but forget about the flag what about the flag pole?

I mean if only we just didn’t have flag poles then there would be no means to fly the flags and, by the most obvious extension of logic seen on here for a long time, no need for food banks.

Time for a flag pole debate I think...would be much much better than a flag debate.

The whole point of Brexit was to stop Poles, didn't you get the memo? :wink:

[RyeSloan]

The whole point of Brexit was to stop Poles, didn't you get the memo? :wink:

[emoji12][emoji16]

[G B Young]

I'm not buying that, BH, and I doubt anyone else is either.

Corbyn has never negotiated with his enemies. He's had cosy chats with his friends, or the friends of his ideologies.

He's voted against the government hundreds of times, often to protect his "friends", or rather save face with them.

Can you point to any success he's had in these negotiations? Trump has had more success with North Korea and that's only lip service success.

Spot on. It's easy to bleat on about 'dialogue' being the only way to end conflicts when you've never had any meaningful part to play in trying to broker a peace deal. While there's no conflict (yet!) around the issue, just look at his almost infantile reaction to the Salisbury poisonings. His refusal to acknowledge the possibility of Russian involvement was laughable and you have to hope he's never in a position where his opinion actually carries any clout.

In the era of 'identity politics' we now inhabit, the perception among his devotees that Corbyn is a man of virtue is what keeps a man hopelessly unsuited to leadership at the head of the Labour Party. Witness his 'handling' of the summer-long anti-semitism row where he dismissed accusations against him of anti-semitic rhetoric (despite solid evidence to the contrary) by saying such a thing was impossible due to the fact he had spent his life fighting 'all forms of racism'. It's a generalisation typical of Corbyn ie that he's a right-thinking man of the left who is therefore 'in the clear'.

[Mibbes Aye]

The only plus side is that it’s only a matter of time before this “market society” that we have become, has its kickback.

Enough is enough.

Arguably there was a kickback in 2008 when the banking system failed and we were at imminent risk of a domino effect where ATMs stopped paying out cash, direct debits failed etc etc. There would have been anarchy, literally anarchy.

The only solution was for the state (several states in fact) to step in and pump almost-unimaginable amounts of public money in, to save a system that was proven to be utterly flawed.

Profit got privatised and risk got socialised. It stinks and it doesn't really feel like we learned anything.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Arguably there was a kickback in 2008 when the banking system failed and we were at imminent risk of a domino effect where ATMs stopped paying out cash, direct debits failed etc etc. There would have been anarchy, literally anarchy.

The only solution was for the state (several states in fact) to step in and pump almost-unimaginable amounts of public money in, to save a system that was proven to be utterly flawed.

Profit got privatised and risk got socialised. It stinks and it doesn't really feel like we learned anything.

'Quantitative easing', done to prop up the banks, is perhaps the ultimate example of the chimera that the money system is. Tens of billions of pounds was 'created' out of thin air. That 'money' only existed because the government put said amount into a computer and announced it now existed. In fact it didn't exist in any physical form; one day it wasn't there, the next it was. A money system can only survive for as long as there is public we confidence in it. When we suspend our disbelief for a period i.e. 'lose confidence in the system', it collapses. It only exists for as long as we accept that it exists.

Then, just a few years later, a dimwit like Teresa May campaigns on the banal slogan 'there is no magic money tree', when in fact that's exactly how any financial system works! I say again there are no economic laws, only theories which support ideologies. Every economic 'law' can be broken; it isn't science. Yet when are the foundations of the money system ever discussed? We only get debate based upon the universal acceptance of economic premises which are, in fact, tacitly agreed fiction.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Speaking of flag bearing friends, maybe Alex can try and stop his comrades in North Lanarkshire voting with the Tories(again) to stop them spending cash on a new flag pole to fly the union flag, whilst people in that county have to visit foodbanks. Oops, they've already voted.

Wrapping themselves up in the flag of the union is their type of nationalism, but that's ok though.

Jeremy can give us a rendition of, Jerusalem, whilst they raise their standard each morning. How very progressive.

British nationalism, alive and well in the British Labour party in Scotland.



:applause: 10/10 :agree: read that a few weeks back, Labours Jim Logue is quite excited with the thought of splashing out 18k on a union jack going up, Labour and Tories in Scotland are two cheeks of the same erse, each party trying to out-do each other to see who's the biggest unionists, it's VERY hard to tell them apart up here nowadays, ******* vomit-inducing :agree:

[grunt]

Have I picked this story up correctly?

Scottish Labour runs Glasgow City Council for 17 years, during which time news emerges that women are paid less for the equivalent jobs of their male counterparts. Scottish Labour spends millions of pounds trying to stop GCC female employees taking their fight to court.

Roll forward two years, SNP now run the council, SNP are doing something to address the gender pay discrepancy (not entirely sure what), and when the GCC women strike, Labour's Corbyn and Leonard post their support of them.

Is this hypocrisy?

[CropleyWasGod]

Have I picked this story up correctly?

Scottish Labour runs Glasgow City Council for 17 years, during which time news emerges that women are paid less for the equivalent jobs of their male counterparts. Scottish Labour spends millions of pounds trying to stop GCC female employees taking their fight to court.

Roll forward two years, SNP now run the council, SNP are doing something to address the gender pay discrepancy (not entirely sure what), and when the GCC women strike, Labour's Corbyn and Leonard post their support of them.

Is this hypocrisy?

To answer your first question, that's my reading of it.

On the second one, it's just politicians doing what they do. :rolleyes:

[ronaldo7]

Have I picked this story up correctly?

Scottish Labour runs Glasgow City Council for 17 years, during which time news emerges that women are paid less for the equivalent jobs of their male counterparts. Scottish Labour spends millions of pounds trying to stop GCC female employees taking their fight to court.

Roll forward two years, SNP now run the council, SNP are doing something to address the gender pay discrepancy (not entirely sure what), and when the GCC women strike, Labour's Corbyn and Leonard post their support of them.

Is this hypocrisy?

You've got it. Although I believe it's a lot longer than 17 years in control.

Another thing to mention is the unfortunate role of the GMB in this whole debacle. Where they told some of their members to accept an offer which was found to be less than they were entitled to. The ladies are now taking the union to court.

All in all, it looks like the new administration are trying to sort out labours mess. It's going to cost a bomb, something like their PFI deals.

I suppose it gives, Rhea wolfson as a parliamentary candidate from the labour party, and GMB official a wee chance of some media training.

[Fife-Hibee]

Sad thing is, hundreds of thousands of people will still fall for it.

[RyeSloan]

Have I picked this story up correctly?

Scottish Labour runs Glasgow City Council for 17 years, during which time news emerges that women are paid less for the equivalent jobs of their male counterparts. Scottish Labour spends millions of pounds trying to stop GCC female employees taking their fight to court.

Roll forward two years, SNP now run the council, SNP are doing something to address the gender pay discrepancy (not entirely sure what), and when the GCC women strike, Labour's Corbyn and Leonard post their support of them.

Is this hypocrisy?

Duplicity more like. No doubting which party resided over this mess.

That said I did laugh at the reassuring comment from the current council leader. Susan Aitken said: "I'm not entirely sure why this strike is taking place”

Good to know you were keeping abreast of the situation Susan [emoji23]

Which is good but not quite as good as Edinburgh’s own Leslie Mcinnes (transport convener) when muttering about the on street bike storage scheme came out with this cracker:

"It's essential we get the basics right, like providing somewhere for people to put their bikes”

[emoji24][emoji24][emoji24]

[ronaldo7]

Duplicity more like. No doubting which party resided over this mess.

That said I did laugh at the reassuring comment from the current council leader. Susan Aitken said: "I'm not entirely sure why this strike is taking place”

Good to know you were keeping abreast of the situation Susan [emoji23]

Which is good but not quite as good as Edinburgh’s own Leslie Mcinnes (transport convener) when muttering about the on street bike storage scheme came out with this cracker:

"It's essential we get the basics right, like providing somewhere for people to put their bikes”

[emoji24][emoji24][emoji24]


Probably said in the context of the ladies having won their case, and the council having 30 people trying to work out how much individuals are due.

I can assure you that the case is fully abreast. :wink:

[ronaldo7]

Sad thing is, hundreds of thousands of people will still fall for it.

You've got to ask yourself, why in the hell, a party called Labour, were in court to block equal pay of low paid women.

It's how they roll I suppose.:saltireflag

[cabbageandribs1875]

Have I picked this story up correctly?

Scottish Labour runs Glasgow City Council for 17 years, during which time news emerges that women are paid less for the equivalent jobs of their male counterparts. Scottish Labour spends millions of pounds trying to stop GCC female employees taking their fight to court.

Roll forward two years, SNP now run the council, SNP are doing something to address the gender pay discrepancy (not entirely sure what), and when the GCC women strike, Labour's Corbyn and Leonard post their support of them.

Is this hypocrisy?



oh yes

21339


the scottish branch of the liebour party at their very best

[RyeSloan]

Probably said in the context of the ladies having won their case, and the council having 30 people trying to work out how much individuals are due.

I can assure you that the case is fully abreast. :wink:

It attitudes like that....[emoji12] [emoji23]

[ronaldo7]

It attitudes like that....[emoji12] [emoji23]

Here is labour guy, Ian smart giving his tuppence worth.

Sheds a light on Richard the leopard heart.

Really mundane point. The reason there was a strike in Glasgow today was because, in 2006, the GMB insisted on a deal with discriminatorily terms in favour of their male members. Advised by the GMB’s then research officer, @LabourRichard That’s just an unfortunate fact.

[JeMeSouviens]

Here is labour guy, Ian smart giving his tuppence worth.

Sheds a light on Richard the leopard heart.

Really mundane point. The reason there was a strike in Glasgow today was because, in 2006, the GMB insisted on a deal with discriminatorily terms in favour of their male members. Advised by the GMB’s then research officer, @LabourRichard That’s just an unfortunate fact.

When you say "Labour guy" ... "frankly close to unhinged fanatical nat basher" might be closer to the mark. Not like you to have missed this ronaldo. :wink:

[ronaldo7]

When you say "Labour guy" ... "frankly close to unhinged fanatical nat basher" might be closer to the mark. Not like you to have missed this ronaldo. :wink:

:faf::faf:


I try and give these Labour boys a bit of leeway, however, if you say so. :wink:

[GlesgaeHibby]

Where's our resident 'mon Scottish Labour chap to fight their corner here? :greengrin

[cabbageandribs1875]

21342



Scottish Labour, the gift that keeps on giving :agree:

[ronaldo7]

Where's our resident 'mon Scottish Labour chap to fight their corner here? :greengrin


He's maybe still reading this to get up to speed on British Labour in Scotland.:wink:

https://wingsoverscotland.com/the-last-days-of-pompeii/

[ronaldo7]

21342



Scottish Labour, the gift that keeps on giving :agree:

I saw wee Shug (with the racist views), on Sky, during the equal pay march in the weege, doing his...Honestly it's not me, I'm just a postie routine.

I bet James Matthews had a redder after that interview when he was told who he was.

How many jobs does Wee Shuggie have now?

[cabbageandribs1875]

I saw wee Shug (with the racist views), on Sky, during the equal pay march in the weege, doing his...Honestly it's not me, I'm just a postie routine.

I bet James Matthews had a redder after that interview when he was told who he was.

How many jobs does Wee Shuggie have now?



and he had the brass neck to address westminster with this p@sh "i want to build a UK that cares for all walks of life" :rolleyes: Hypocrisy appears to be rife in the British Labour party lately

[Moulin Yarns]

Now a police investigation into possible criminality in the Anti-semitic furore surrounding the Labour Party

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46070229

[ronaldo7]

Now a police investigation into possible criminality in the Anti-semitic furore surrounding the Labour Party

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46070229

I suppose we need to let it run its course and see if anything floats to the top.

[cabbageandribs1875]

about time too https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-46414207 vile crooked violent b***h

A Labour frontbencher has quit her role to "support family" after events surrounding her son's drugs conviction.

Shadow International Development Secretary Kate Osamor stepped down weeks after she was reported to Parliament's standards watchdog.

Her son Ishmael Osamor, 29, previously admitted to having £2,500-worth of drugs at last year's Bestival event in Dorset.

Ms Osamor's resignation follows allegations in a national newspaper.


one less nodding momentum head on the front bench at least :agree:

[ronaldo7]

Imagine if this plonker ever got the chance to run the budget. :doh:


https://www.thenational.scot/news/17296367.scottish-labour-make-embarrassing-error-in-budget-press-release/?ref=mr&lp=10

Mon Scottish Slavers

[Hibbyradge]

Imagine if this plonker ever got the chance to run the budget. :doh:


https://www.thenational.scot/news/17296367.scottish-labour-make-embarrassing-error-in-budget-press-release/?ref=mr&lp=10

Mon Scottish Slavers

:faf:

[RyeSloan]

Imagine if this plonker ever got the chance to run the budget. :doh:


https://www.thenational.scot/news/17296367.scottish-labour-make-embarrassing-error-in-budget-press-release/?ref=mr&lp=10

Mon Scottish Slavers

Hee hee that’s a classic! [emoji23]

[weecounty hibby]

Imagine if this plonker ever got the chance to run the budget. :doh:


https://www.thenational.scot/news/17296367.scottish-labour-make-embarrassing-error-in-budget-press-release/?ref=mr&lp=10

Mon Scottish Slavers
But but but, they have fantastic leadership and will solve all of the problems in Scotland and have fantastic ideas and wonderful plans. We just don't know what they are. They are in a sorry state in Scotland and across the rest of the UK.
Cant wait to see IGNSH/Tornadoes defend that one!!😂

[Hibbyradge]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-labour-lib-dems-jeremy-corbyn-tory-deal-poll-yougov-a8685786.html

[hibsbollah]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/brexit-labour-lib-dems-jeremy-corbyn-tory-deal-poll-yougov-a8685786.html

Agree, that's probably accurate. But I'm hoping and I'm confident Labour won't support Mays deal. There's no sensible political reason to do so.

[Hibbyradge]

Agree, that's probably accurate. But I'm hoping and I'm confident Labour won't support Mays deal. There's no sensible political reason to do so.

I so, so hope you're right.

[Tornadoes70]

But but but, they have fantastic leadership and will solve all of the problems in Scotland and have fantastic ideas and wonderful plans. We just don't know what they are. They are in a sorry state in Scotland and across the rest of the UK.
Cant wait to see IGNSH/Tornadoes defend that one!!😂

A resurgent Labour party under the very popular leader Jeremy Corbyn really puts the fear into you lot :wink:

As I said to CWG politicians are particularly prone to misspeaking, remember when the snp stated the separation referendum was a once in a generation matter? Should still be around 26 years or so until the next one is even considered then :aok:

Mon Labour!!!

[Moulin Yarns]

A resurgent Labour party under the very popular leader Jeremy Corbyn really puts the fear into you lot :wink:

As I said to CWG politicians are particularly prone to misspeaking, remember when the snp stated the separation referendum was a once in a generation matter? Should still be around 26 years or so until the next one is even considered then :aok:

Mon Labour!!!

I'm off to see the wizard, the wonderful wizard of oz. And it will be more believable than any of your post

[GlesgaeHibby]

A resurgent Labour party under the very popular leader Jeremy Corbyn really puts the fear into you lot :wink:

As I said to CWG politicians are particularly prone to misspeaking, remember when the snp stated the separation referendum was a once in a generation matter? Should still be around 26 years or so until the next one is even considered then :aok:

Mon Labour!!!

The game's up, given yourself away as a troll with that there.

[Hibbyradge]

A resurgent Labour party under the very popular leader Jeremy Corbyn really puts the fear into you lot :wink:

As I said to CWG politicians are particularly prone to misspeaking, remember when the snp stated the separation referendum was a once in a generation matter? Should still be around 26 years or so until the next one is even considered then :aok:

Mon Labour!!!

I'd be delighted if there was any sign of resurgence in the Labour Party.

However, there isn't.

Something significant has to change, but you're complacent.

[Tornadoes70]

I'd be delighted if there was any sign of resurgence in the Labour Party.

However, there isn't.

Something significant has to change, but you're complacent.

Jeremy's been very busy transforming the party since the first moment of taking over as leader. He's done brilliantly so far and is very popular especially resonating with younger idealist voters.

[Tornadoes70]

The game's up, given yourself away as a troll with that there.

Most peculiar.

I seem to recall you sounding me out some posts back.

Pot and kettle methinks.

[Hiber-nation]

Jeremy's been very busy transforming the party since the first moment of taking over as leader. He's done brilliantly so far and is very popular especially resonating with younger idealist voters.

I know a few Labour party members and they are absolutely dismayed at Corbyn's leadership, particularly on Brexit.

[Pete]

I know a few Labour party members and they are absolutely dismayed at Corbyn's leadership, particularly on Brexit.

People of all persuasions are dismayed with their parties stance on Brexit, such is the nature of the debate.

One thing Corbyns leadership has done has boost party membership big time. The commitment to democratic socialism trumps all.

[Hibbyradge]

Jeremy's been very busy transforming the party since the first moment of taking over as leader. He's done brilliantly so far and is very popular especially resonating with younger idealist voters.

Did you bother to look at those polls?

[Hibernia&Alba]

People of all persuasions are dismayed with their parties stance on Brexit, such is the nature of the debate.

One thing Corbyns leadership has done has boost party membership big time. The commitment to democratic socialism trumps all.

I agree with the thrust of your post, Pete. I'm more pro-European than Corbyn, but I'm a socialist. I'm a Green, and the emphasis may be different, but I agree with the general direction of Corbyn. I agree he has improved Labour's fortunes despite the huge forces against him. The Green vote halved between the elections of 2015 and 2017, and, taking an educated guess, I would say much of that went to Labour under Corbyn. We on the left need to find some way of find consensus which would undo the harm of austerity and forty years of neoliberalism.

[Tornadoes70]

Did you bother to look at those polls?

Polls can very often be misleading. In any case I support Labour with virtually the same constant positive optimistic outlook that I do with our beloved football club.

Mon Labour!!!

[Tornadoes70]

People of all persuasions are dismayed with their parties stance on Brexit, such is the nature of the debate.

One thing Corbyns leadership has done has boost party membership big time. The commitment to democratic socialism trumps all.

:top marks

[Hibbyradge]

Polls can very often be misleading. In any case I support Labour with virtually the same constant positive optimistic outlook that I do with our beloved football club.

Mon Labour!!!

Did you think Hibs were going to win the league when Terry Butcher was taking us steadily down the league to relegation?

Positive optimism is brilliant, but it's just blind faith, and it doesn't really add anything to considered debate. It really is just sticking your fingers in your ears and blocking out anything you don't like.

If Labour get Brexit wrong, they're toast. I might even burn my old membership cards.

[Hiber-nation]

People of all persuasions are dismayed with their parties stance on Brexit, such is the nature of the debate.

One thing Corbyns leadership has done has boost party membership big time. The commitment to democratic socialism trumps all.

In Scotland? Maybe it has increased here, I've no idea but there a lot of disappointed Labour supporters out there, believe me.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Most peculiar.

I seem to recall you sounding me out some posts back.

Pot and kettle methinks.

You've completely lost me now.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://twitter.com/robertflorence/status/1074737854725664769?s=19

[Glory Lurker]

I'm not sure he really meant to, and I'll believe it when I see it, but fair play to Corbyn for raising the stakes at last.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm not sure he really meant to, and I'll believe it when I see it, but fair play to Corbyn for raising the stakes at last.

And fairer play to the leaders of the other parties for raising the stakes to the proper level that Corbyn was Frightened to.

[Glory Lurker]

And fairer play to the leaders of the other parties for raising the stakes to the proper level that Corbyn was Frightened to.

Oh, totally. I was trying to be ecumenical!

[Moulin Yarns]

We know he is right, but to be caught saying it at PMQs

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46619689

[ronaldo7]

We know he is right, but to be caught saying it at PMQs

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46619689

Once again, when he should be ripping into May, and leaving the scraps for the rest of us, he scores an own goal, by calling her a stupid woman. How to embolden the Tories in one easy lesson.

[GlesgaeHibby]

We know he is right, but to be caught saying it at PMQs

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46619689

After rightly being rinsed about will he/won't he call a confidence motion. The guy is a clown.

[Bangkok Hibby]

We know he is right, but to be caught saying it at PMQs

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46619689

Completely understand his frustration at her answers. Perhaps he should have called her a stupid **** or a stupid ******* to avoid the embarrassing cries of mysogyny from the Government back benches. It clearly had nothing to do with denigrating women. Let him come back, apologise and move on. Margaret Beckett got it right. Constituents across the country looked at this nonsense with dismay.

[hibsbollah]

After rightly being rinsed about will he/won't he call a confidence motion. The guy is a clown.

You may think he's 'a clown', but I must be living in a parallel universe if muttering 'stupid woman' under your breath during PMQs is a matter of any importance to anything.

Still, it gives the frequent users of the Holy Ground a chance not to focus on the food banks, or the fact the waiting list for children's mental health services is about twelve months, or hundreds of thousands of families that are borrowing money from loan sharks to fund Christmas because of the universal credit roll out. That's the kind of issues that Labour focus on. If you care about these kind of things, use your vote in the right way. That's what politics should be about.

That's REAL politics, not the ridiculous smoke and mirrors diversion that we're being fed, and far too many idiots seem prepared to lap up as 'news'. Pathetic.

[Moulin Yarns]

Naughty Labour MP

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-cambridgeshire-46602635

[GlesgaeHibby]

You may think he's 'a clown', but I must be living in a parallel universe if muttering 'stupid woman' under your breath during PMQs is a matter of any importance to anything.

Still, it gives the frequent users of the Holy Ground a chance not to focus on the food banks, or the fact the waiting list for children's mental health services is about twelve months, or hundreds of thousands of families that are borrowing money from loan sharks to fund Christmas because of the universal credit roll out. That's the kind of issues that Labour focus on. If you care about these kind of things, use your vote in the right way. That's what politics should be about.

That's REAL politics, not the ridiculous smoke and mirrors diversion that we're being fed, and far too many idiots seem prepared to lap up as 'news'. Pathetic.

Yes, and the easiest way to start tackling these problems is to get shot of the Tories. Something which Labour are incapable of doing with Corbyn at the helm, which is why I want them to get shot of him.

[hibsbollah]

Yes, and the easiest way to start tackling these problems is to get shot of the Tories. Something which Labour are incapable of doing with Corbyn at the helm, which is why I want them to get shot of him.

I'll take you at your word that you do, in fact, give a **** about these things and they concern you. I suspect with a lot of the posters on here who claim to be wanna be Labour voters but who are put off by Corbyn, they just have no interest in traditional Labour issues like wealth redistribution, hence the lack of posts about it. There is literally NO POLITICS on here. At all.

[heretoday]

Instead of bickering about who said what about whom, would it be too much to ask these MPs to stay behind over the break and get some kind of deal sorted out over Brexit?

[IGRIGI]

We know he is right, but to be caught saying it at PMQs

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-46619689

Weapons grade mock outrage on show.

[GlesgaeHibby]

I'll take you at your word that you do, in fact, give a **** about these things and they concern you. I suspect with a lot of the posters on here who claim to be wanna be Labour voters but who are put off by Corbyn, they just have no interest in traditional Labour issues like wealth redistribution, hence the lack of posts about it. There is literally NO POLITICS on here. At all.

The problem is Brexit is dominating everything in the UK at the minute with nothing getting done on the real issues that matter. We need to get this over with (whatever option we decide, and I hope we stay in). It's criminal that whilst this Tory government are busy making an arse of Brexit that in work poverty is on the rise, homelessness is on the rise, homeless deaths and suicides on the rise, police numbers down, education budgets stripped to the bone, NHS in a mess.

Sadly, whatever happens next, Brexit is likely to dominate the headlines for a few years to come. Still can't forgive Cameron for getting us into this needless mess.

[SouthsideHarp_Bhoy]

You may think he's 'a clown', but I must be living in a parallel universe if muttering 'stupid woman' under your breath during PMQs is a matter of any importance to anything.

Still, it gives the frequent users of the Holy Ground a chance not to focus on the food banks, or the fact the waiting list for children's mental health services is about twelve months, or hundreds of thousands of families that are borrowing money from loan sharks to fund Christmas because of the universal credit roll out. That's the kind of issues that Labour focus on. If you care about these kind of things, use your vote in the right way. That's what politics should be about.

That's REAL politics, not the ridiculous smoke and mirrors diversion that we're being fed, and far too many idiots seem prepared to lap up as 'news'. Pathetic.

I dont agree with the whole post, but i totally agree that the 'stupid woman' thing is nothing. Im not even sure why itnis deemed to be sexist? Many would argue it is factually correct...

[JeMeSouviens]

The problem is Brexit is dominating everything in the UK at the minute with nothing getting done on the real issues that matter. We need to get this over with (whatever option we decide, and I hope we stay in). It's criminal that whilst this Tory government are busy making an arse of Brexit that in work poverty is on the rise, homelessness is on the rise, homeless deaths and suicides on the rise, police numbers down, education budgets stripped to the bone, NHS in a mess.

Sadly, whatever happens next, Brexit is likely to dominate the headlines for a few years to come. Still can't forgive Cameron for getting us into this needless mess.

This is true - but given that the Tories would be actively pursuing policies to exacerbate all the things you go on to mention, it's something of a silver lining that Brexit is paralysing them so completely.

Anyway, given that the real motivation behind Brexit is as a staging post to unleash a low tax, low regulation economy, I think fighting it should be the overwhelming priority of the left at the moment. Tories hate the EU because its consensus holds them back. This is a real danger and a combination of seeking to appease British nationalist racists/xenophobes and dallying around with a fantasy Lexit is opening the door to it.

[Hibbyradge]

I'll take you at your word that you do, in fact, give a **** about these things and they concern you. I suspect with a lot of the posters on here who claim to be wanna be Labour voters but who are put off by Corbyn, they just have no interest in traditional Labour issues like wealth redistribution, hence the lack of posts about it. There is literally NO POLITICS on here. At all.

The main reason that there are no posts about issues like wealth redistribution is because there is currently literally no chance of it becoming even a possibility.

You say there is no politics discussed on here, but I disagree.

There may not be enough debate on the issues that exercise you, but Brexit, Indy2, Poverty, Trump and the prospect of the Labour Party gaining power are all important political issues. I'm not going to check, but I'm fairly confident that you've contributed to most of those discussions too.

I think if there were threads about the redistribution of wealth or the disgrace that is foodbanks, they'd be short because they would quickly turn into arguments about Corbin's inability to land a blow on this utterly incompetent government.

[G B Young]

Once again, when he should be ripping into May, and leaving the scraps for the rest of us, he scores an own goal, by calling her a stupid woman. How to embolden the Tories in one easy lesson.

He regards himself as the embodiment of virtue, a saintly man who claims to stand for a 'kinder, gentler politics' so obviously he couldn't possibly have said such a thing - even though he quite clearly did (the Sky News lipreader analysis last night was funny to watch as they forensically showed how one's mouth has to move in order to utter each word). A swift apology would have been the correct course of action, but Corbyn is incapable of accepting criticism (and clearly possesses zero sense of humour) so he once again fluffed his latest attempt to land a blow on May. The guy's a clown.

[hibsbollah]

I think if there were threads about the redistribution of wealth or the disgrace that is foodbanks, they'd be short because they would quickly turn into arguments about Corbin's inability to land a blow on this utterly incompetent government.

I completely agree, and this admission tells us that people are being manipulated into some sort of logical 'through the looking glass' reality where the culprits for the War On the Poor 2008+into perpetuity©) are being let off the hook, and instead we are blaming the only guy who actually debates and campaigns on behalf of the victims of it.

[hibsbollah]

The problem is Brexit is dominating everything in the UK at the minute with nothing getting done on the real issues that matter. We need to get this over with (whatever option we decide, and I hope we stay in). It's criminal that whilst this Tory government are busy making an arse of Brexit that in work poverty is on the rise, homelessness is on the rise, homeless deaths and suicides on the rise, police numbers down, education budgets stripped to the bone, NHS in a mess.

Sadly, whatever happens next, Brexit is likely to dominate the headlines for a few years to come. Still can't forgive Cameron for getting us into this needless mess.

****in' Halejulah. Someone else noticed. I had assumed Corbyn started this whole Brexit mess. While blocking a disabled space and mocking the war dead.

[Hibbyradge]

I completely agree, and this admission tells us that people are being manipulated into some sort of logical 'through the looking glass' reality where the culprits for the War On the Poor 2008+into perpetuity©) are being let off the hook, and instead we are blaming the only guy who actually debates and campaigns on behalf of the victims of it.

This is true.

He's being blamed because he's in the only position in the country with the power to hold the culprits to task and he's failing.

Debates and campaigns about poverty and inequality are all very well, but in the main, they're just echo chambers, and they won't change a thing.

Getting the keys to Downing Street might and the right Labour leader would be an odds on favourite to do just that.

However, JC is behind May in popularity and the Labour Party is neck and neck with the Tories if you search for a helpful poll, otherwise they trail.

I hope he wins the next GE and I hope it's soon. Brexit combined with another 5 years of an emboldened Tory Party is just too horrible to contemplate, but unless something drastic changes, it's a real possibility.

[JeMeSouviens]

I completely agree, and this admission tells us that people are being manipulated into some sort of logical 'through the looking glass' reality where the culprits for the War On the Poor 2008+into perpetuity©) are being let off the hook, and instead we are blaming the only guy who actually debates and campaigns on behalf of the victims of it.

Tories perpetrating a war on the poor are succeeding. That's what they do.

Labour are supposed to defend the poor in that war. If their tactics are making it easy for the Tories then they're failing.

[Tornadoes70]

I'll take you at your word that you do, in fact, give a **** about these things and they concern you. I suspect with a lot of the posters on here who claim to be wanna be Labour voters but who are put off by Corbyn, they just have no interest in traditional Labour issues like wealth redistribution, hence the lack of posts about it. There is literally NO POLITICS on here. At all.

Good post.

Labour under Corbyn will re introduce across the spectrum good old fashioned socialist core values when voted back into Government.

[hibsbollah]

Tories perpetrating a war on the poor are succeeding. That's what they do.

Labour are supposed to defend the poor in that war. If their tactics are making it easy for the Tories then they're failing.

Tactics like not supporting a no confidence vote until the time was apposite for actually winning that vote? Exactly what I would have advised him to do. But when the briefings are that this is somehow a 'gaff', people just switch off as to whether this assessment is actually justified.

[JeMeSouviens]

Tactics like not supporting a no confidence vote until the time was apposite for actually winning that vote? Exactly what I would have advised him to do. But when the briefings are that this is somehow a 'gaff', people just switch off as to whether this assessment is actually justified.

Labour will never win a no-con vote in this parliament. If they wanted to stop Brexit they would move a no-con to give them cover to say they've tried everything they could, then move to a ref#2.

The only logical conclusion from their tactics is that they want Brexit and then get into power. They are playing a dangerous game and probably in the short term and definitely in the medium to long term the poor will suffer as a result.

[hibsbollah]

Labour will never win a no-con vote in this parliament. If they wanted to stop Brexit they would move a no-con to give them cover to say they've tried everything they could, then move to a ref#2.

The only logical conclusion from their tactics is that they want Brexit and then get into power. They are playing a dangerous game and probably in the short term and definitely in the medium to long term the poor will suffer as a result.

That's not the only conclusion.

Labour party members don't want Brexit. Labour MPs don't want Brexit. Momentum members overwhelmingly don't want Brexit. But 60%+ of Labour VOTERS do want it, or did in 2016. That's why the shadow cabinet has to be careful of what its signalling to those people, who already feel like noone listens to them.

https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majority-conservative-and-labour-constituencies-vote-leave-eu-referendum/

If I was Labour I'd say it's now time for a Second Referendum with Leave on the ballot. But even if they did, they can call all they want, that's not something Labour can make happen, only the Tories can.

[Moulin Yarns]

I was the lucky(?) recipient of an email today.

Subject: Don't stand for this.


Today at Prime Minister’s Questions Jeremy Corbyn called Theresa May a ‘stupid woman’.

This is just the latest in a long line of misogynistic behaviour from Corbyn and his top team.

Jeremy Corbyn ‘mansplained’ to the Prime Minister on International Women’s Day, called for women only train carriages and has a Shadow Chancellor who called a female MP a ‘b****’ and said she should be lynched.

Show them you won’t stand for this by joining the Conservative Party today. (https://www.conservatives.com/sitecore%20modules/Web/EXM/RedirectUrlPage.aspx?ec_eq=NHBnJBt5uphp0CdzH%2bN9% 2bPYvacuqzjbALAj2nJYgPHHGVLpt5y0BlkVf0vyRKTw8CkSiU Kf4RffzkrC8jBGJFzunP5pIOTfezGAQqzwCGg7PWTIOf9oHlZe Kv9e8J3HZMvyJZmHG5Wvq0vxUC3CLJqHt53cINxEFhMlWExXhp RjWaZl7uncxFuiFMz65RCSkshxvHLlKoAge0La6bykZ1MNlJlf EGH0RKZVrBgMyJsR9aauKYRK35ElB6m1iG6ryyjiBNPzZ96AET Utf%2bccm%2fFIgpeRXnlJ%2bbN3VZPm7wf5tjyFwZOwaMNXZX 948ftIeAqzqSRcey1p7fw%2f1V5MCSqEG1ZRL0%2fBIDPBRaRY qkxGg8ZlctH9syd7%2bz23AGwxJoppI3ZZuvWRPLNlwd8TvP1l b1Y7JiVUnRNLCS6j5ye%2f6LX%2fovbNgc9vbCjKew%2fYqJVS QvqOYIPy4z662MnzafQ%3d%3d)

We’re supporting more women to go as far as their talents will take them. Including tackling the abuse and intimidation women face in public life.

On top of this, with a Conservative government the female employment rate is close to a record high and the gender pay gap is at a record low.

That’s why I’m incredibly proud to be the Party’s Vice Chair for Women – join me as a member of the Conservative Party today (https://www.conservatives.com/sitecore%20modules/Web/EXM/RedirectUrlPage.aspx?ec_eq=A691nyQB%2bhFxpUF4eyamH hRdf4KXXD74LY79OfrB3LpY5CdwjwOe7ogJmMM4NLvJF2S3spR %2bXAv5%2fTykUFcMGSCsOCl4TGecYi7lEY%2bIxfcxMxHXKnE GMQlRCvIcZjaSw656pojRDKWmC9qGyVnGolyXoDnk6DDC4WIWs OCuxmJRHPV75hMaoijfgP%2b4HkkuRx75jKNpRswgkJjOeB2it 0lXZ7D9lfNcfDh8UA6C04nyKHH4rpu9kX1Gk9Si3qip8l9FrDO Wx%2b9U4AJ9om750TAV1Ea5Fqk9JNJuC0EqYc5jkAnr6vK9ViN GKTQa%2baBlNu19GonrhZ3uSgg9ZRzZwfo%2fDTyBzNuuzaHR6 H9CCYl9J4lI1FD29f1SCA5cW3EJnsIi0fWbFeEsjTNtrWTYsBP TMyVtArL77s%2fM4dfYdtXwf74zw13o1eVydREuOadVlv2k89% 2fFBwWav32A%2faRo%2bQ%3d%3d).

Yours

Helen Whately MP
Conservative Party Vice Chair, Women

PS: Show Corbyn he can’t get away with calling Theresa May a 'stupid woman' by joining the Conservative Party (https://www.conservatives.com/sitecore%20modules/Web/EXM/RedirectUrlPage.aspx?ec_eq=K5qHKJLGoUdT9q5tPIcd%2f 5d9zmVSjUUVQ7oupvj1b4ESmmW90ytA0rmKkeiRhILgBB301F4 g18%2b3aQuv%2fFybBZkCQJOSkFGUPgYqz7QWRyELcpOHvDD2% 2bmhc8JAMYDsvrFJ428tLURIVM89pP%2fs7%2f3jjXJC9KbOFE g9KCsphz6ij7FfGQnqQmk5Ydw8uqiNA3HN7d2JEQuF8jzgAJp7 %2b%2bPJ1gqzJjIg%2botgBqU%2f2GSo5z4EwFQsXuJinAYJZb YtOFnxbKQcPk5atXMLINXGmfR3Utz9yaKH8OXsipRmKW3dgUwG x242e7ei0%2bIDLy2HSGE3mPbTDfL4cHCroaPyayi0JqcoGuWD 4meuHCrUhalCjErVc7xDViC5%2fIaXBaEoeWtntZR46d4%2fbD wo%2bf1pMAOzydjFnHTmx5fYNaeAAc%2bZMqsrGlXbALvfvWmd 6C1vhyBMCVbxXovs%2b37q1lhdO5w%3d%3d).

Ms Whately got a clear reply from me.


So, you are complaining about the leader of the opposition muttering under his breath "Stupid people" while you consider it to be a wizard wheeze to tell the leader of the SNP to "Go back to Skye". I know which I find more offensive, and it is just the same as telling an Asian to go home to Pakistan, or a Nigerian to go home to Africa.


Your party is the worst offenders when it comes to insulting behaviour.

[JeMeSouviens]

That's not the only conclusion.

Labour party members don't want Brexit. Labour MPs don't want Brexit. Momentum members overwhelmingly don't want Brexit. But 60%+ of Labour VOTERS do want it, or did in 2016. That's why the shadow cabinet has to be careful of what its signalling to those people, who already feel like noone listens to them.

https://fullfact.org/europe/did-majority-conservative-and-labour-constituencies-vote-leave-eu-referendum/

If I was Labour I'd say it's now time for a Second Referendum with Leave on the ballot. But even if they did, they can call all they want, that's not something Labour can make happen, only the Tories can.

That 60% figure says that 60% of Labour held constituencies had Leave majorities, not that 60% of Labour voters voted Leave.

A majority of Labour voters voted remain in 2016 and that majority has hardened since.

The meaningful vote in January can be amended to call for ref#2. There are enough Tory rebels to get it over the line if Labour whips its MPs to vote for it.

[JeMeSouviens]

This is EU ref exit polling:

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/How-the-UK-voted-Full-tables-1.pdf

Found that people who voted Lab in 2015 split 63-37 for Remain.

cf. Tories 58-42 for Leave and bizarrely UKIP 96-4 for Leave (wtf were the 4 thinking about?)

[hibsbollah]

That 60% figure says that 60% of Labour held constituencies had Leave majorities, not that 60% of Labour voters voted Leave.

A majority of Labour voters voted remain in 2016 and that majority has hardened since.

The meaningful vote in January can be amended to call for ref#2. There are enough Tory rebels to get it over the line if Labour whips its MPs to vote for it.

Yes I'm sorry I meant 60% of Labour constituencies not voters. But the point is the same, these constituency seats that Labour won arent guaranteed to stay that way. We're talking over 150 Labour seats in mostly deprived rural and ex industrial areas that have kept this parliament hung. The SNP don't have the same pressure of having a split voting body so have more freedom to act.

[JeMeSouviens]

Yes I'm sorry I meant 60% of Labour constituencies not voters. But the point is the same, these constituency seats that Labour won arent guaranteed to stay that way. We're talking over 150 Labour seats in mostly deprived rural and ex industrial areas that have kept this parliament hung. The SNP don't have the same pressure of having a split voting body so have more freedom to act.

I get that and I understand why they are concerned but if they are seen to have facilitated Brexit they will lose a bunch of other seats where angry remainers will switch to Libs or green or just not come out to vote.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://twitter.com/Aiannucci/status/1075678162258980864?s=19

[Hibernia&Alba]

This is EU ref exit polling:

http://lordashcroftpolls.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/How-the-UK-voted-Full-tables-1.pdf

Found that people who voted Lab in 2015 split 63-37 for Remain.

cf. Tories 58-42 for Leave and bizarrely UKIP 96-4 for Leave (wtf were the 4 thinking about?)

Interesting :aok:

[Moulin Yarns]

John mcdonnell saying that Labour will work with the DUP to win an election then take advice from Gordon brown.

WTF do they put in their tea?

[CropleyWasGod]

John mcdonnell saying that Labour will work with the DUP to win an election then take advice from Gordon brown.

WTF do they put in their tea?So we'll be getting criminalisation of gays, abortion and sex work in the Labour manifesto. [emoji849]

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

[Moulin Yarns]

So we'll be getting criminalisation of gays, abortion and sex work in the Labour manifesto. [emoji849]

Sent from my SM-A520F using Tapatalk

I was more worried about the advice from Gordon brown to be honest

[Colr]

John mcdonnell saying that Labour will work with the DUP to win an election then take advice from Gordon brown.

WTF do they put in their tea?

They don’t take the advice of their own party, though.

We swapped in another team of aloof technocrats

[Moulin Yarns]

https://twitter.com/LesleyRiddoch/status/1076787413463285760?s=19

Corbyn decision not to support the people's vote is also described as the shortest suicide note in politics

[Moulin Yarns]

Possibly true
https://twitter.com/ferryferndale/status/1076553734493216768?s=19

[Colr]

Good piece on BBC about politicians who never quite made it to No10. Doing Kinnock at the moment.

[Pete]

Another planned crucifixion of the “looney left” Labour Party on the impartial BBC tonight.

Impartial crowd pleasing mentions of Hamas right from the get go to appeal to the lowest.

Edit: It now surfaces that Fiona Bruce spent ten minutes telling jokes at Diane Abbots expense as a “warm up”. Disgraceful but not unexpected from what is now nothing more than a vehicle for the opinion of millionaires.

[Colr]

John mcdonnell saying that Labour will work with the DUP to win an election then take advice from Gordon brown.

WTF do they put in their tea?

Mcdonnel was on the TV a few weeks back saying how much he’d love to see a united Ireland. Corbyn is of a similar mind, I’m pretty sure. I can’t see the DUP being too willing to help Labour out on anything much.

[ronaldo7]

British labour in Scotland's latest PPB is a hoot. Kidding on that they're showing pictures of, Scotland, and they're actually Snowdonia.

😂😂

[Fife-Hibee]

:faf:

http://oi63.tinypic.com/2vbmslh.jpg

It's getting beyond parody now.

[weecounty hibby]

:faf:

http://oi63.tinypic.com/2vbmslh.jpg

It's getting beyond parody now.
What a ****er. Has he mentioned the part that Labour, his union and he himself had in holding back these women's pay rights for decades? No didn't think so. Totally shameful that he is trying to take any credit for this.

[Fife-Hibee]

What a ****er. Has he mentioned the part that Labour, his union and he himself had in holding back these women's pay rights for decades? No didn't think so. Totally shameful that he is trying to take any credit for this.

Not only holding it back, but squandering over £2.5m of tax payers money to sue them for demanding equal pay. :greengrin

[Pete]

British labour in Scotland's latest PPB is a hoot. Kidding on that they're showing pictures of, Scotland, and they're actually Snowdonia.

😂😂

Issues like this. ☝🏻

Vital importance :agree:

[ronaldo7]

Issues like this. ☝🏻

Vital importance :agree:

It's vitally important that they keep on giving us a lorra, lorra laughs.

If they can't even get a PPB correct, how are we to take them seriously when they continue to tell us, that, tricky dickie, is going to be the next FM. 🎭

[Pete]

It's vitally important that they keep on giving us a lorra, lorra laughs.

If they can't even get a PPB correct, how are we to take them seriously when they continue to tell us, that, tricky dickie, is going to be the next FM. 🎭

Is this the Royal ‘us’ or a select band of like-minded people on here. ;-)

To me, it’s more. It’s all part of this narrative that’s rather aggressively pushed by supporters of some Nationalist parties. If you don’t support independence then you’re not quite as “Scottish” as those who do. You therefore don’t have Scotlands best interests at heart and don’t love your homeland as much. I’ve said it before but it’s a message I vehemently disagree with and, as someone who voted for independence, find very offputting.

I actually like some of the SNP ppb’s but I wouldn’t use them, or their production quality to persuade my thinking or judge competence. I also doubt Richard Leonard had any input.

It should be about politics and the issues that impact our everyday lives, not petty point scoring. However, that’s all it seems to be about on these threads.

[JeMeSouviens]

Is this the Royal ‘us’ or a select band of like-minded people on here. ;-)

To me, it’s more. It’s all part of this narrative that’s rather aggressively pushed by supporters of some Nationalist parties. If you don’t support independence then you’re not quite as “Scottish” as those who do. You therefore don’t have Scotlands best interests at heart and don’t love your homeland as much. I’ve said it before but it’s a message I vehemently disagree with and, as someone who voted for independence, find very offputting.

I actually like some of the SNP ppb’s but I wouldn’t use them, or their production quality to persuade my thinking or judge competence. I also doubt Richard Leonard had any input.

It should be about politics and the issues that impact our everyday lives, not petty point scoring. However, that’s all it seems to be about on these threads.

Jeezo, a straw man so big you could put Edward Woodward in it!

[ronaldo7]

Is this the Royal ‘us’ or a select band of like-minded people on here. ;-)

To me, it’s more. It’s all part of this narrative that’s rather aggressively pushed by supporters of some Nationalist parties. If you don’t support independence then you’re not quite as “Scottish” as those who do. You therefore don’t have Scotlands best interests at heart and don’t love your homeland as much. I’ve said it before but it’s a message I vehemently disagree with and, as someone who voted for independence, find very offputting.

I actually like some of the SNP ppb’s but I wouldn’t use them, or their production quality to persuade my thinking or judge competence. I also doubt Richard Leonard had any input.

It should be about politics and the issues that impact our everyday lives, not petty point scoring. However, that’s all it seems to be about on these threads.

I don't usually do "Royal", but onto the substantive point of the British Labour party in Scotland cocking something up as simple as making a PPB just really shows how inept they currently are.

I'm sure you do like some of the SNP PPB's just like, Richard is a friend of the SNP's manifesto.:wink:

Don't take things too seriously Peter, after all we've got the next PPB to look forward to. :thumbsup:

[Pete]

I don't usually do "Royal", but onto the substantive point of the British Labour party in Scotland cocking something up as simple as making a PPB just really shows how inept they currently are.

I'm sure you do like some of the SNP PPB's just like, Richard is a friend of the SNP's manifesto.:wink:

Don't take things too seriously Peter, after all we've got the next PPB to look forward to. :thumbsup:

I’ve heard it was going to involve Richard Leonard appearing in the kitchen at someone’s house party.

However, that’s had to be shelved. Nobody can afford a house as all the SNP have done regarding housing is tinker around the edges. :-(

Home ownership and fair rent for the many, not the few. What’s not to like? ;-)

[Fife-Hibee]

Is this the Royal ‘us’ or a select band of like-minded people on here. ;-)

To me, it’s more. It’s all part of this narrative that’s rather aggressively pushed by supporters of some Nationalist parties. If you don’t support independence then you’re not quite as “Scottish” as those who do. You therefore don’t have Scotlands best interests at heart and don’t love your homeland as much. I’ve said it before but it’s a message I vehemently disagree with and, as someone who voted for independence, find very offputting.

I actually like some of the SNP ppb’s but I wouldn’t use them, or their production quality to persuade my thinking or judge competence. I also doubt Richard Leonard had any input.

It should be about politics and the issues that impact our everyday lives, not petty point scoring. However, that’s all it seems to be about on these threads.

I think the idea that those who don't support independence don't have Scotlands best interests at heart stems from the fact that they wish to maintain a union that doesn't have Scotlands best interests at heart.

[Pete]

I think the idea that those who don't support independence don't have Scotlands best interests at heart stems from the fact that they wish to maintain a union that doesn't have Scotlands best interests at heart.

I think a Corbyn led, socialist UK government will have everyone’s interests at heart. :agree:

[Fife-Hibee]

I think a Corbyn led, socialist UK government will have everyone’s interests at heart. :agree:

Indeed. Because socialism has historically been good for everyone and not just those who toe the party line. :Ummm:

You also have the issue of Corbyn actually wanting to be leader, which he quite clearly doesn't. :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

I think a Corbyn led, socialist UK government will have everyone’s interests at heart. :agree:

Mon Scottish Labour

[pacoluna]

Mon Scottish Labour

Do people still talk about Scottish labour? Pretty much irrelevant now..

[beensaidbefore]

Another planned crucifixion of the “looney left” Labour Party on the impartial BBC tonight.

Impartial crowd pleasing mentions of Hamas right from the get go to appeal to the lowest.

Edit: It now surfaces that Fiona Bruce spent ten minutes telling jokes at Diane Abbots expense as a “warm up”. Disgraceful but not unexpected from what is now nothing more than a vehicle for the opinion of millionaires.


Did you see Diane Abbot last night? Imo she is worthy of ridicule. She seems to be on another planet.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Richard Leonard, some neck.
Sums up his party, joke.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Did you see Diane Abbot last night? Imo she is worthy of ridicule. She seems to be on another planet.

She seems so out of touch. I'm puzzled as to her standing in the Labour party, she must have photos 🤣

[Pete]

Do people still talk about Scottish labour?

😂

Evidently they do.

[hibsbollah]

Another planned crucifixion of the “looney left” Labour Party on the impartial BBC tonight.

Impartial crowd pleasing mentions of Hamas right from the get go to appeal to the lowest.

Edit: It now surfaces that Fiona Bruce spent ten minutes telling jokes at Diane Abbots expense as a “warm up”. Disgraceful but not unexpected from what is now nothing more than a vehicle for the opinion of millionaires.

Bruce was also mocking Abbott's claim that Labour are not trailing in the polls, and are actually broadly neck and neck. Bruce says 'youre behind. Definitely. Definitely'. She laughs, Tory laughs, audience laughs. Camera pans to Bruce, grinning and looking at Abbott in a disbelieving way.

Thing is, it's true. It fluctuates between a narrow Labour lead to narrow Tory lead and a dead heat. After all the hilarity directed her way by Bruce I think she's owed an apology.
https://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/

Abbott gets a harder time than other politicians for obvious, old fashioned and disturbing reasons.

[Hibrandenburg]

I think a Corbyn led, socialist UK government will have everyone’s interests at heart. :agree:

In a world of black and white, yin and yang, day and night, good and evil and Hibs and Hearts that is impossible.

[Pete]

Bruce was also mocking Abbott's claim that Labour are not trailing in the polls, and are actually broadly neck and neck. Bruce laughs, Tory laughs, audience laughs. Camera pans to Bruce, grinning and looking at Abbott in a disbelieving way.

Thing is, it's true. It fluctuates between a narrow Labour lead to narrow Tory lead and a dead heat. After all the hilarity directed her way by Bruce I think she's owed an apology.
https://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/

Abbott gets a harder time than other politicians for obvious, old fashioned and disturbing reasons.

I was seething last night and she definitely is owed an apology...but she won’t get one.

I totally agree with your last point and I bet a lot of the people who have a problem with her aren’t even aware of it themselves.

“I’m no racist but...let’s be honest, she looks like she should stick to cleaning and raising children in a plantation household.”

[Pete]

In a world of black and white, yin and yang, day and night, good and evil and Hibs and Hearts that is impossible.

True, there is a very small percentage of people who’s interests they don’t have at heart. I think we all know what percentage of the population that is.

[ronaldo7]

I’ve heard it was going to involve Richard Leonard appearing in the kitchen at someone’s house party.

However, that’s had to be shelved. Nobody can afford a house as all the SNP have done regarding housing is tinker around the edges. :-(

Home ownership and fair rent for the many, not the few. What’s not to like? ;-)

Housing, now there's a statement. Care to elaborate on how many houses labour build during there time in charge at Holyrood?

[RyeSloan]

Abbott gets a harder time than other politicians for obvious, old fashioned and disturbing reasons.

Ahh yeah sure...or it’s the fact she frequently talks a lot of bull and is forever reminding everyone just how out of her depth she is.

Who can forget her opinion that Mao did more good than harm!

[Pete]

Housing, now there's a statement. Care to elaborate on how many houses labour build during there time in charge at Holyrood?

Different sources give different figures but that’s not the point.

It’s all about the here and now and it’s grim for youngsters and first time buyers. Radical action is needed now at a national level and only Labour can deliver on housing.

I admire what the SNP have done but it isn’t enough. It will only get worse so they should make way for a party that has the interests of the many at the heart of everything it does.

[hibsbollah]

Ahh yeah sure...or it’s the fact she frequently talks a lot of bull and is forever reminding everyone just how out of her depth she is.

Who can forget her opinion that Mao did more good than harm!

It doesn't really explain the disproportionate online abuse, racist sexist abuse and death threats she gets. Amnesty did a survey of MPs sites and there's no comparison.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Bruce was also mocking Abbott's claim that Labour are not trailing in the polls, and are actually broadly neck and neck. Bruce says 'youre behind. Definitely. Definitely'. She laughs, Tory laughs, audience laughs. Camera pans to Bruce, grinning and looking at Abbott in a disbelieving way.

Thing is, it's true. It fluctuates between a narrow Labour lead to narrow Tory lead and a dead heat. After all the hilarity directed her way by Bruce I think she's owed an apology.
https://britainelects.com/polling/westminster/

Abbott gets a harder time than other politicians for obvious, old fashioned and disturbing reasons.

Oh come on man. Abbott gets a hard because she is completely detached from the reality of now.

[Pete]

Ahh yeah sure...or it’s the fact she frequently talks a lot of bull and is forever reminding everyone just how out of her depth she is.

Who can forget her opinion that Mao did more good than harm!

If you don’t think racism, subconscious or otherwise, is involved in a lot of the ‘non racist’ abuse she receives then you’re being incredibly naive.

[weecounty hibby]

Different sources give different figures but that’s not the point.

It’s all about the here and now and it’s grim for youngsters and first time buyers. Radical action is needed now at a national level and only Labour can deliver on housing.

I admire what the SNP have done but it isn’t enough. It will only get worse so they should make way for a party that has the interests of the many at the heart of everything it does.
The interests of the many. That's a catchy wee slogan that Labour have for themselves there. Does that stretch to the many women who worked for decades in Glasgow City Labour led Council for less pay and were then shafted by the now Scottish branch secretary when he was a union leader? Ah yes, for the many as long as its the right many. I see Leonard is trying very hard to take some credit for the workers victory. Well played brother.

[Pete]

Oh come on man. Abbott gets a hard because she is completely detached from the reality of now.

Detachment from reality of any sort is the last thing you can accuse her of.

People will be calling her thick next 🤣

[hibsbollah]

Oh come on man. Abbott gets a hard because she is completely detached from the reality of now.

She was right last night. The stats prove it. The only ones detached from reality were jolly old chummy Fiona and Isobel.

[ronaldo7]

Different sources give different figures but that’s not the point.

It’s all about the here and now and it’s grim for youngsters and first time buyers. Radical action is needed now at a national level and only Labour can deliver on housing.

I admire what the SNP have done but it isn’t enough. It will only get worse so they should make way for a party that has the interests of the many at the heart of everything it does.

Ok. I'll give you the figure as you don't seen to want to find it. 6, yes six ***** houses. Why should I trust a party who would take wee cleaning ladies to court to stop them getting equal pay?

[Pete]

Ok. I'll give you the figure as you don't seen to want to find it. 6, yes six ***** houses.

https://fullfact.org/economy/social-renting-scotland/

🤔

[ronaldo7]

https://fullfact.org/economy/social-renting-scotland/

🤔

Can't open the link but I'll have a look when I get home. On the point of your party taking wee cleaning wummin to court to stop them getting equal pay. Not for Penny, just for Hugh 😁

[cabbageandribs1875]

good old Dicky Leotard, Slab=the gift that keeps on giving https://www.scotsman.com/news/politics/labour-shares-vision-for-scotland-with-view-of-welsh-mountain-1-4858008?fbclid=IwAR3CiB6otOsw08Gxw4ji-KoaVH-bLKHal_2zCLMmi3uFCIUML9gupQ6jBPo


“This is pretty embarrassing for Richard Leonard – it’s hard to shake off Scottish Labour’s ‘branch office’ reputation when they can’t tell Snowdonia from Scotland.”


oh Dear Dicky :agree:

[Pete]

Can't open the link but I'll have a look when I get home. On the point of your party taking wee cleaning wummin to court to stop them getting equal pay. Not for Penny, just for Hugh 😁

You do that mate...and it looks like mountaingate has also been cleared up:

But Labour insisted it had not made a gaffe by showing Wales instead of Scotland - explaining the video reflects the party’s aspirations as a UK-wide political movement.

A spokesperson for Scottish Labour said: “As Richard states in the film, this is our vision for Scotland and for the whole of the UK, because the urgent need to get rid of the Tories and elect a Labour government that will end austerity doesn’t stop at the border with England.”

More fake news busted. 👍🏼

[Moulin Yarns]

Different sources give different figures but that’s not the point.

It’s all about the here and now and it’s grim for youngsters and first time buyers. Radical action is needed now at a national level and only Labour can deliver on housing.

I admire what the SNP have done but it isn’t enough. It will only get worse so they should make way for a party that has the interests of the many at the heart of everything it does.

There is currently planning approval for more than 4000 new homes around Perth alone, many of which are low cost or social housing. I suggest that you check facts about what the snp are doing for housing.

[weecounty hibby]

You do that mate...and it looks like mountaingate has also been cleared up:

But Labour insisted it had not made a gaffe by showing Wales instead of Scotland - explaining the video reflects the party’s aspirations as a UK-wide political movement.

A spokesperson for Scottish Labour said: “As Richard states in the film, this is our vision for Scotland and for the whole of the UK, because the urgent need to get rid of the Tories and elect a Labour government that will end austerity doesn’t stop at the border with England.”

More fake news busted. 👍🏼

Aye ok then. That's the kind of thing my laddie would make up when he gets caught out making **** up. I look forward to the next Labour PPB that airs around London being filmed in Inverness, you know because it's all about beating the Tories, except in Scotland where it's ok to lose to them as long as it's not the SNP. 3rd party in Scotland for a reason, or more likely a number of reasons.

[Pete]

There is currently planning approval for more than 4000 new homes around Perth alone, many of which are low cost or social housing. I suggest that you check facts about what the snp are doing for housing.

Hey, the housing crisis is number one on my list so anything to alleviate the pressure is to be applauded.

Now about these facts. You say 4000 homes and “many” are social or low cost. What percentage is that and what is the total amount of social homes that will be built? Also, can you tell me where these facts come from?...we all know that certain outlets have certain agendas and are known to twist things.

[Fife-Hibee]

Abbott gets a harder time than other politicians for obvious, old fashioned and disturbing reasons.

Or she just plays the race card at every opportunity to cling on to a well paid job that she clearly isn't fit for.

[Fife-Hibee]

It doesn't really explain the disproportionate online abuse, racist sexist abuse and death threats she gets. Amnesty did a survey of MPs sites and there's no comparison.

Did they include other dark skinned politicians in the survey? How did they compare with her?

[Pete]

Aye ok then. That's the kind of thing my laddie would make up when he gets caught out making **** up. I look forward to the next Labour PPB that airs around London being filmed in Inverness, you know because it's all about beating the Tories, except in Scotland where it's ok to lose to them as long as it's not the SNP. 3rd party in Scotland for a reason, or more likely a number of reasons.

I guess you’ll never know, will you...but it sounds like you’ve made up your mind.

Mind you if the SNP website told its supporters that Labour only built six council houses in its entire tenure, they would blindly believe that and it would become a fact.

[stoneyburn hibs]

Or she just plays the race card at every opportunity to cling on to a well paid job that she clearly isn't fit for.

Regardless of your politics, that's just rubbish because it's simply not true.

[marinello59]

Or she just plays the race card at every opportunity to cling on to a well paid job that she clearly isn't fit for.

That comment doesn’t just lack truth, it’s bordering on offensive. Are you really saying that a working class black woman with a Cambridge degree only hangs on to her job because she plays the race card?

[GlesgaeHibby]

Different sources give different figures but that’s not the point.

It’s all about the here and now and it’s grim for youngsters and first time buyers. Radical action is needed now at a national level and only Labour can deliver on housing.

I admire what the SNP have done but it isn’t enough. It will only get worse so they should make way for a party that has the interests of the many at the heart of everything it does.

The 50k affordable homes over the lifetime of this parliament target at £3bn is the single biggest investment in housing since devolution and is widely supported by people working in the industry. Scotland is building more affordable housing per year than all of England. HTB has also helped plenty FTBs, including myself, onto the housing ladder.

All Labour are capable of at the minute is telling the SNP where they need to invest, without any suggestions as to where they should cut (given we get a block grant and limited pot).

[Moulin Yarns]

Hey, the housing crisis is number one on my list so anything to alleviate the pressure is to be applauded.

Now about these facts. You say 4000 homes and “many” are social or low cost. What percentage is that and what is the total amount of social homes that will be built? Also, can you tell me where these facts come from?...we all know that certain outlets have certain agendas and are known to twist things.

Planning Policy, across the whole of Scotland, requires a minimum of 25% of developments to be affordable or social housing. Developers either give a legally required contribution to the local authority or build them along with their houses for sale, Pennywell in Edinburgh is an example. Most people don't realise when the buy a new house their neighbours may be in the same house but are renting from either the council or more likely a housing association. Barratts development at the Gyle? The same, and these are just a couple of examples I know of, The Wisp? Yes, the same.

How do I know these facts. I worked in local government, in Perth.

[Curried]

That comment doesn’t just lack truth, it’s bordering on offensive. Are you really saying that a working class black woman with a Cambridge degree only hangs on to her job because she plays the race card?

Race aside, it’s clear she’s intellectually gifted. She has a 2:2 in History...Didn’t Phil the Greek’s kid get the same ?

[Pete]

Race aside, it’s clear she’s intellectually gifted. She has a 2:2 in History...Didn’t Phil the Greek’s kid get the same ?

When you consider the social obstacles faced by each individual, I couldn’t think of a worse comparison.

[Curried]

When you consider the social obstacles faced by each individual, I couldn’t think of a worse comparison.


The one thing in common being they are both thick as mince:-)

[Curried]

When you consider the social obstacles faced by each individual, I couldn’t think of a worse comparison.

On reflection, this is probably a much better comparison now that I think of the Labour party. However he did manage a 2:1.

https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/courses/history/top-10-celebrities-with-a-history-degree/?entry=6
https://www.thecompleteuniversityguide.co.uk/courses/history/top-10-celebrities-with-a-history-degree/?entry=6

[marinello59]

Race aside, it’s clear she’s intellectually gifted. She has a 2:2 in History...Didn’t Phil the Greek’s kid get the same ?

Seriously? Abbott was one of only three black women at Cambridge when she attended in the seventies. It must have been a hell of a lonely experience for her, racism wasn’t only acceptable back then, it spawned its own ‘hilarious’ sitcoms.
I didn’t claim she was intellectually gifted but she is far from the uneducated dimwit so many people love to portray her as.

[Pretty Boy]

The Abbott abuse has many parallels with Neil Lennon. 'She only gets it because.....'

Some people are suspicious, abusive and hyer critical of her because they are condotioned to be so by a hostile press and the weight of history on social norms.

She may well be incompetent or unfit for the role she is in but the criticism and vitriol aimed at her is way out of proportion. A huge part of the reason is, quite literally, staring people in the face.

[Curried]

Seriously? Abbott was one of only three black women at Cambridge when she attended in the seventies. It must have been a hell of a lonely experience for her, racism wasn’t only acceptable back then, it spawned its own ‘hilarious’ sitcoms.
I didn’t claim she was intellectually gifted but she is far from the uneducated dimwit so many people love to portray her as.

Let's agree to disagree. BTW you did infer that she was intellectually gifted by pushing the line that she had a degree from Cambridge.

[Fife-Hibee]

That comment doesn’t just lack truth, it’s bordering on offensive. Are you really saying that a working class black woman with a Cambridge degree only hangs on to her job because she plays the race card?

So having a Cambridge degree makes her good at any job does it? :rolleyes:

I'm calling her a useless politican, not an idiot.

[marinello59]

So having a Cambridge degree makes her good at any job does it? :rolleyes:

I'm calling her a useless politican, not an idiot.

No. You were saying that she keeps her job because she constantly plays the race card. That’s not true.

[Fife-Hibee]

No. You were saying that she keeps her job because she constantly plays the race card. That’s not true.

She's the prime example of someone who will not be demoted because of their race. If she was being treated equally, she'd have long been booted from her high ranking position out of sheer incompetence.

Take her criticism of private schooling for example. She was pointing the finger at other politicians for sending their children to private schools, only for it to be uncovered that she sends her own child to a private school. So what does she do? She plays the race card. Claiming that she was right to send him to a private school, as "black boys underachieve in secondary schools". :rolleyes:

[lapsedhibee]

No. You were saying that she keeps her job because she constantly plays the race card. That’s not true.

This probably makes me a racist and/or misogynist in the current climate, but I've often wondered why she is so prominent in a large political party. Is she really good at something that's not apparent to casual observers? It's as well she's on Andrew Neil's team on his late night show because if she was an interviewee he'd eat her alive.

[hibsbollah]

This probably makes me a racist and/or misogynist in the current climate, but I've often wondered why she is so prominent in a large political party. Is she really good at something that's not apparent to casual observers? It's as well she's on Andrew Neil's team on his late night show because if she was an interviewee he'd eat her alive.

Chris Grayling, Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock are just three high profile Tory ministers that are more visibly error prone and dense. I came up with them in less than twenty seconds, there will be a lot more on both sides of the house.

They also seem to avoid the death/rape threats and ugly jibes.

[Fife-Hibee]

Chris Grayling, Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock are just three high profile Tory ministers that are more visibly error prone and dense. I came up with them in less than twenty seconds, there will be a lot more on both sides of the house.

They also seem to avoid the death/rape threats and ugly jibes.

Were the death/rape threats actually ever proven? If I recall, she wrote an article claiming she recieved these threats a while back, without providing any tangible evidence to suggest that she actually did.

Here is a racist tweet from her however...

https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/x190/293692_2.jpg

[hibsbollah]

She's the prime example of someone who will not be demoted because of their race. If she was being treated equally, she'd have long been booted from her high ranking position out of sheer incompetence.

Take her criticism of private schooling for example. She was pointing the finger at other politicians for sending their children to private schools, only for it to be uncovered that she sends her own child to a private school. So what does she do? She plays the race card. Claiming that she was right to send him to a private school, as "black boys underachieve in secondary schools". :rolleyes:

That's a complete misinterpretation:rolleyes:

You can argue about the morality of that choice she made (personally, i don't see a hypocrisy in sending your kid to a private school while campaigning for ALL schools to be well funded), but it doesn't prove or disprove your assertion that she's so incompetent she'd be booted out if she were white. Without providing any evidence, that claim IS offensive in my opinion.

[Moulin Yarns]

Is this thread still going, it must have a brighter future than the Labour Party :wink:

[hibsbollah]

Were the death/rape threats actually ever proven? If I recall, she wrote an article claiming she recieved these threats a while back, without providing any tangible evidence to suggest that she actually did.

Here is a racist tweet from her however...

https://cdn.images.express.co.uk/img/dynamic/1/x190/293692_2.jpg

:confused: You're now suggesting she made these things up? Ridiculous.

Amnesty tracked all the tweets over a six week period, evidence here.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/05/diane-abbott-more-abused-than-any-other-mps-during-election

I am guessing her tweet there, while not defensible, is not representative of what she normally posts and might be a result of the proven grief she's received over decades.

[lapsedhibee]

Chris Grayling, Boris Johnson, Matt Hancock are just three high profile Tory ministers that are more visibly error prone and dense. I came up with them in less than twenty seconds, there will be a lot more on both sides of the house.


Aye but I wasn't asking about any of them. Grayling's good at smiling and Boris at Latin. What is it that Abbott's particularly good at? :dunno:

[Moulin Yarns]

Aye but I wasn't asking about any of them. Grayling's good at smiling and Boris at Latin. What is it that Abbott's particularly good at? :dunno:

Countdown.

[weecounty hibby]

I think it would be childish to suggest that she hasn't been the target of outright racism on social media and probably unconscious racism elsewhere. It would also be childish on the other side to think that she is a high class, competent politician. I really do wonder how she keeps her role within the Labour party. Likewise the Tories mentioned above though

[hibsbollah]

Aye but I wasn't asking about any of them. Grayling's good at smiling and Boris at Latin. What is it that Abbott's particularly good at? :dunno:

Im absolute not making the case shes some kind of political genius. I just think the narrative that shes a useless liability isnt based on any real evidence. She can make a good, impassioned speech (Spectator magazine gave her Political Speech of the Year in 2007, he says, searching her wiki page for evidence to back up his argument). I probably feel slightly defensive towards her because of the abuse campaign shes received and the fact she tends to support issues that I do, for example defying Ed Milibands whip and voting against the 2015 Welfare Reform Bill. Shes good at authenticity and representing her constituents perhaps?

[Fife-Hibee]

That's a complete misinterpretation:rolleyes:

You can argue about the morality of that choice she made (personally, i don't see a hypocrisy in sending your kid to a private school while campaigning for ALL schools to be well funded), but it doesn't prove or disprove your assertion that she's so incompetent she'd be booted out if she were white. Without providing any evidence, that claim IS offensive in my opinion.

Her arguement wasn't about all schools being well funded. It was about white politicians sending their white children to private schools and her mocking them for doing so. It seems in her mind, white boys and black boys should be segregated. With white boys going to public schools and black boys going to private schools. She put herself in an utterly ridiculous position and it's hardly for the first time either.

[RyeSloan]

:confused: You're now suggesting she made these things up? Ridiculous.

Amnesty tracked all the tweets over a six week period, evidence here.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/05/diane-abbott-more-abused-than-any-other-mps-during-election

I am guessing her tweet there, while not defensible, is not representative of what she normally posts and might be a result of the proven grief she's received over decades.

She does have a wee bit of history with that type of stuff tho does she not? Like her stuff about Finnish nurses which was rather dubious to say the least.

Anyway I think Countyhibby has summed this one up quite well.

[RyeSloan]

.

[Fife-Hibee]

:confused: You're now suggesting she made these things up? Ridiculous.

Amnesty tracked all the tweets over a six week period, evidence here.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/sep/05/diane-abbott-more-abused-than-any-other-mps-during-election

I am guessing her tweet there, while not defensible, is not representative of what she normally posts and might be a result of the proven grief she's received over decades.

Amnesty also point out that they used an automated system for determining what tweets were considered abusive or not and even they themselves admit that the system is far from perfect. They also gave no information as to how the algorithms actually work when making that distinction.

I'm not suggesting that she hasn't recieved any abuse online. I don't think there's a single politician out there that would tell you that they don't recieve what they consider abuse online. But I would like to think that if she is recieving the level of threats that she is claiming to, that she would make a copy of those threats and send them to the authorities for them to deal with appropriately.

[hibsbollah]

Amnesty also point out that they used an automated system for determining what tweets were considered abusive or not and even they themselves admit that the system is far from perfect. They also gave no information as to how the algorithms actually work when making that distinction.

I'm not suggesting that she hasn't recieved any abuse online. I don't think there's a single politician out there that would tell you that they don't recieve what they consider abuse online. But I would like to think that if she is recieving the level of threats that she is claiming to, that she would make a copy of those threats and send them to the authorities for them to deal with appropriately.

That's weak.

The AI was very clear that she receives disproportionate abuse. There's no equivocation about the reporting system.

I've no doubt that some of it HAS gone to the authorities.

[Fife-Hibee]

That's weak.

The AI was very clear that she receives disproportionate abuse. There's no equivocation about the reporting system.

I've no doubt that some of it HAS gone to the authorities.

Sorry, but that's utterly meaningless. If we don't know how the AI actually makes it's determinations, then any results it produces need to make taken with a pinch of salt.

Why would she only send some of it to the authorities? If I was a politician recieving the scale of abuse she claims herself to recieve, then I would be sending all of it to the authorities.

I will make this point though. There hasn't been any instances, at least not that i'm aware of, where her life or health has been under direct threat. By that, I mean that nobody has attempted to assault her or take her life in public. You would think with all the threat claims she has made, that she would require constant security to ensure her own safety. Yet she goes about her life and her career all day everyday without any incident.

[hibsbollah]

Sorry, but that's utterly meaningless. If we don't know how the AI actually makes it's determinations, then any results it produces need to make taken with a pinch of salt.

Why would she only send some of it to the authorities? If I was a politician recieving the scale of abuse she claims herself to recieve, then I would be sending all of it to the authorities.

I will make this point though. There hasn't been any instances, at least not that i'm aware of, where her life or health has been under direct threat. By that, I mean that nobody has attempted to assault her or take her life in public. You would think with all the threat claims she has made, that she would require constant security to ensure her own safety. Yet she goes about her life and her career all day everyday without any incident.

It's not threat 'claims', there is threat 'evidence'. And you're now casting doubt on their veracity because she hasn't been put in an early grave by a right wing nut like Jo Cox was?

Ridiculous. You're trolling.

[lapsedhibee]

Im absolute not making the case shes some kind of political genius. I just think the narrative that shes a useless liability isnt based on any real evidence. She can make a good, impassioned speech (Spectator magazine gave her Political Speech of the Year in 2007, he says, searching her wiki page for evidence to back up his argument). I probably feel slightly defensive towards her because of the abuse campaign shes received and the fact she tends to support issues that I do, for example defying Ed Milibands whip and voting against the 2015 Welfare Reform Bill. Shes good at authenticity and representing her constituents perhaps?

Perhaps. But even if so, probably insufficient to warrant her current status as Home-Secretary-In-Waiting. I still suspect there are photographs.

[Fife-Hibee]

It's not threat 'claims', there is threat 'evidence'. And you're now casting doubt on their veracity because she hasn't been put in an early grave by a right wing nut like Jo Cox was?

Ridiculous. You're trolling.

Where is the evidence? :confused: An AI saying she recieves such and such percent more threats than anybody else isn't evidence. I want to see these tweets that the AI considers "threats" and determine for myself whether I consider them threats or not. No details are given in the report on how the AI makes these determinations. If that's good enough for you then fine. But from my own perspective that isn't good enough. I want to see solid evidence that she actually does recieve a disproportionate amount of threats compared to other politicians.

As for Joe Cox. I don't seem to recall her mentioning much about online abuse or threats. What happened to her can happen to any politician, regardless of their colour, race or creed. Which the situation itself proved. She was a politician who earned her position on merit. She didn't need to play on her background to get to where she did.

As for calling me a troll. I suppose that's the online version of calling somebody a bigot, just because you can't agree or find common ground with them.

[hibsbollah]

Where is the evidence? :confused: An AI saying she recieves such and such percent more threats than anybody else isn't evidence. I want to see these tweets that the AI considers "threats" and determine for myself whether I consider them threats or not. No details are given in the report on how the AI makes these determinations. If that's good enough for you then fine. But from my own perspective that isn't good enough. I want to see solid evidence that she actually does recieve a disproportionate amount of threats compared to other politicians.

As for Joe Cox. I don't seem to recall her mentioning much about online abuse or threats. What happened to her can happen to any politician, regardless of their colour, race or creed. Which the situation itself proved. She was a politician who earned her position on merit. She didn't need to play on her background to get to where she did.

As for calling me a troll. I suppose that's the online version of calling somebody a bigot, just because you can't agree or find common ground with them.

No, I just think all your arguments are demonstrably weak. I can't find any substance in there at all.

[hibsbollah]

Perhaps. But even if so, probably insufficient to warrant her current status as Home-Secretary-In-Waiting. I still suspect there are photographs.

There have been some fairly shoddy home secretaries, to be fair. I remember thinking 'who is this ****ing weird John major nobody and how did he get one of the great offices of state?' under Thatcher. David Liddington was one recently wasn't he?

She probably won't put out 'get the **** out of my country you dirty foreign bassas' bus adverts like Theresa May did when she was HC, but I think that goes in Diannes favour.

[lapsedhibee]

There have been some fairly shoddy home secretaries, to be fair. I remember thinking 'who is this ****ing weird John major nobody and how did he get one of the great offices of state?' under Thatcher.

The nightmare scenario. Diane Abbott's career replicates John Major's, and Abbott becomes Prime Minister. Cheers for that terrifying thought!

[Ozyhibby]

Is it possible that there are racist, sexist pricks who are abusing Diane Abbott on the internet but also, totally separately, that Diane Abbott is terrible at her job and is a hypocrite?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[hibsbollah]

Is it possible that there are racist, sexist pricks who are abusing Diane Abbott on the internet but also, totally separately, that Diane Abbott is terrible at her job and is a hypocrite?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yes It's possible, and it's a view that gets a lot of coverage.

[Hibrandenburg]

The nightmare scenario. Diane Abbott's career replicates John Major's, and Abbott becomes Prime Minister. Cheers for that terrifying thought!

She's like Corbyn, intelligent and probably conscientious but comes across as a bumbling imbecile and thus totally unelectable as PM.

[degenerated]

I’ve heard it was going to involve Richard Leonard appearing in the kitchen at someone’s house party.

However, that’s had to be shelved. Nobody can afford a house as all the SNP have done regarding housing is tinker around the edges. :-(

Home ownership and fair rent for the many, not the few. What’s not to like? ;-)Could they not have used one of the 6 that Labour had built during their last tenure at Holyrood?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

[Pete]

Could they not have used one of the 6 that Labour had built during their last tenure at Holyrood?

Sent from my SM-G950F using Tapatalk

#fakenews

😜

[Pete]

She's like Corbyn, intelligent and probably conscientious but comes across as a bumbling imbecile and thus totally unelectable as PM.

You can criticise Diane Abbot in that regard but Corbyn? He is anything but a ‘bumbling idiot’.

Do you watch the exchanges in the House of Commons or just see wee bits and read the British press?

And another thing he certainly isn’t is unelectable. On the contrary, he’s one of the most electable leaders of the opposition in recent years and he’s favourite to be the next PM.

[lapsedhibee]

You can criticise Diane Abbot in that regard but Corbyn? He is anything but a ‘bumbling idiot’.

Do you watch the exchanges in the House of Commons or just see wee bits and read the British press?

And another thing he certainly isn’t is unelectable. On the contrary, he’s one of the most electable leaders of the opposition in recent years and he’s favourite to be the next PM.

Corbyn's a terrible performer in the Commons. As someone else on here suggested, he's mostly about 'shouty soundbites'. He can't seem to breathe properly when he speaks. And I do believe Theresa May's got more of a sense of humour about her than him. :faint:

[Ozyhibby]

You can criticise Diane Abbot in that regard but Corbyn? He is anything but a ‘bumbling idiot’.

Do you watch the exchanges in the House of Commons or just see wee bits and read the British press?

And another thing he certainly isn’t is unelectable. On the contrary, he’s one of the most electable leaders of the opposition in recent years and he’s favourite to be the next PM.

Most electable? He’s already lost one election to Theresa May and is behind in the polls even now. In what parallel universe is he electable?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Pete]

Corbyn's a terrible performer in the Commons. As someone else on here suggested, he's mostly about 'shouty soundbites'. He can't seem to breathe properly when he speaks. And I do believe Theresa May's got more of a sense of humour about her than him. :faint:

Well I'm not sure who you and this "other person" are watching as I don't see that at all.

Anyway, it's not about sense of humour, bodily functions or the ability to put on a show. Being electable in this modern age is about policies and "being real". That's something Mr. Corbyn most certainly is.

I'm loath to listen to anything that any of his detractors say as they were the same ones who were thinking that the last general election would see the Labour Party finished off. You didn't have a clue then so what makes you all think that you are some figure of authority now?

[Pete]

Most electable? He’s already lost one election to Theresa May and is behind in the polls even now. In what parallel universe is he electable?


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"Behind in the polls now"

Is that right?

[hibsbollah]

"Behind in the polls now"

Is that right?

No it's not, as I've posted before. Yougov generally rates the Tories a few points higher, but both parties have been neck and neck for months.

But if you say something often enough it becomes fact.

[Ozyhibby]

No it's not, as I've posted before. Yougov generally rates the Tories a few points higher, but both parties have been neck and neck for months.

But if you say something often enough it becomes fact.

Neck and neck with THIS government? Wow. He must be heading for a landslide. Tories will change leader before an election and he will lose again.


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[hibsbollah]

Neck and neck with THIS government? Wow. He must be heading for a landslide. Tories will change leader before an election and he will lose again.


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It doesn't really do you any favours to make confident predictions about election results. Modern history teaches us that you look a bit daft doing so. Especially as you clearly don't even know the correct polling numbers.

[lapsedhibee]

Well I'm not sure who you and this "other person" are watching as I don't see that at all.

Anyway, it's not about sense of humour, bodily functions or the ability to put on a show. Being electable in this modern age is about policies and "being real". That's something Mr. Corbyn most certainly is.

Would be nice if elections were all about policies, honesty, authenticity, etc, but they really ain't. Convincing liars, for example, do quite well in them.

[JeMeSouviens]

Polling numbers fyi:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_genera l_election#2019

[Ozyhibby]

Polling numbers fyi:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opinion_polling_for_the_next_United_Kingdom_genera l_election#2019

Tony Blair led the tories by 20+ points when Major was in trouble. I would have thought someone as electable as Corbyn would be doing better given that Major was never in the trouble May is in just now.


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[heretoday]

Yvette Cooper should be leader. She seems to have a better handle on the situation than Corbyn.

[Fife-Hibee]

Labour were "neck and neck" with the tories in 2015 according to the polls. :rolleyes: