The future of the Labour Party

[Hiber-nation]

"Everything will change once we get in". That was from Chris Murray the Labour candidate for my constituency after my 10 minute rant about Brexit, the two-child benefit cap, independence, immigration, doing anything to get Daily Mail readers onside etc etc. :greengrin

[marinello59]

There only two camps. Keeping it or not keeping it. The rest is BS.


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So Labour are in the camp of keeping it until Labour are in the camp of not keeping it so I'm assuming that's the BS camp,, I'm cool wi that. :greengrin

No it looks like Oz has declared any perceived nuance as BS, looks like keeping it or not keeping it are both OK.
Has anybody ever seen Oz in the same room as Sir Keir? :greengrin

[Keith_M]

Is Starmer the British version of Macron?

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/article/2024/jun/18/macron-consultants-lobbyists-starmer-labour-


I'm surprised the Guardian allowed such a critical article on Starmer.

[DaveF]

Tory donor John Caudwell is voting Labour for the first time ever.

"He praised Sir Keir's attempts to get rid of what he called "the loony Left" which he claimed had focused on "extreme socialist policies", instead of "creating a wealthy Britain".

"We can't tax rich people in order to help the poor because they'll go off to Monaco and other places, we have to create real genuine wealth.”

He added that “I hope to goodness I am right in my judgement and they make Britain great again”

[Kato]

We can't tax rich people in order to help the poor because they'll go off to Monaco and other places



How very patriotic of the billionaire brexiteer.


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[Ozyhibby]

No it looks like Oz has declared any perceived nuance as BS, looks like keeping it or not keeping it are both OK.
Has anybody ever seen Oz in the same room as Sir Keir? :greengrin

Just woke up pretty hungover in Cologne and I’m not even sure I’m in the same room as me right now.[emoji23]


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[marinello59]

Just woke up pretty hungover in Cologne and I’m not even sure I’m in the same room as me right now.[emoji23]


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:greengrin

[grunt]

Looks like Labour is taking on the "lying" title from the Tories. Or maybe it's just a screeching u-turn.


Labour to appoint dozens of peers within weeks to push through policies and improve representation of women in House of Lords

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/article/2024/jun/23/labour-add-dozens-peers-back-policies-improve-gender-balance?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

And yet ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GQxv7eQX0AEAyKi?format=jpg&name=large

[cabbageandribs1875]

indeed

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/448829661_777235151249363_1323622713437843281_n.jp g?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=kVX6CyCUwpoQ7kNvgFRyIWR&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AYDX23inVgCdovCduSduooP4RIOYli5WswTwNI6TZEKQ mQ&oe=667F3880

[JimBHibees]

indeed

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/448829661_777235151249363_1323622713437843281_n.jp g?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=5f2048&_nc_ohc=kVX6CyCUwpoQ7kNvgFRyIWR&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AYDX23inVgCdovCduSduooP4RIOYli5WswTwNI6TZEKQ mQ&oe=667F3880

Perfectly valid point. Wonder what happened to Blair’s ethical foreign policy

[Paul1642]

Perfectly valid point. Wonder what happened to Blair’s ethical foreign policy

Two entirely separate issues. WTF does Stonehenge have to do with weird either Gaza or Climate change?

[JimBHibees]

Two entirely separate issues. WTF does Stonehenge have to do with weird either Gaza or Climate change?

His response to Stonehenge totally undermines his weak as a kitten position on Gaza. Shameful

[Paul1642]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cqqqqx25rz0t

Labour now suspending a candidate due to a betting investigation.

In fairness to him it looks very naive rather than anything dodgy. He bet against Labour to win in the seat he is standing for.

Probably just a bit of covering his losses in the way that I bet against Hibs in cup finals.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cqqqqx25rz0t

Labour now suspending a candidate due to a betting investigation.

In fairness to him it looks very naive rather than anything dodgy. He bet against Labour to win in the seat he is standing for.

Probably just a bit of covering his losses in the way that I bet against Hibs in cup finals.

The last bit is fine so long as you don’t work or play for Hibs. This guy is a Labour candidate and should be gone.


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[Paul1642]

The last bit is fine so long as you don’t work or play for Hibs. This guy is a Labour candidate and should be gone.


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Don’t disagree and he is gone. I don’t understand how you can be so stupid.

[Stairway 2 7]

It's not the same as the tories who heard the date then bet on that. It's more like Ivan Toney betting in games he's involved. I said about Toney a small suspension is fine, politicians are different and he should be booted, although he obviously can't for this election. Labour have suspended him immediately and handed back the 100k he gave the party as a donation.

[Ozyhibby]

Don’t disagree and he is gone. I don’t understand how you can be so stupid.

My wife is always saying that about me.[emoji6]


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[marinello59]

It's not the same as the tories who heard the date then bet on that. It's more like Ivan Toney betting in games he's involved. I said about Toney a small suspension is fine, politicians are different and he should be booted, although he obviously can't for this election. Labour have suspended him immediately and handed back the 100k he gave the party as a donation.

It is poor from the Labour candidate but given how decisively action has been taken it only goes to highlight Sunak’s dithering over the matter.

[Just Alf]

My wife is always saying that about me.[emoji6]


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk:rofl: .... I hear you!

[Keith_M]

It is poor from the Labour candidate but given how decisively action has been taken it only goes to highlight Sunak’s dithering over the matter.


Agreed, and I'm not entirely convinced this is anywhere near as bad as the Tories, with inside info, betting on the election date.

[grunt]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24413563.labour-mp-hopeful-admits-helped-tory-campaign-last-election/


A LABOUR candidate admitted to helping the Tory campaign at the last election in a bid to defeat the SNP (https://www.thenational.scot/politics/snp/)

[grunt]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRAXAiHW4AEK363?format=jpg&name=medium

[JimBHibees]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/live/cqqqqx25rz0t

Labour now suspending a candidate due to a betting investigation.

In fairness to him it looks very naive rather than anything dodgy. He bet against Labour to win in the seat he is standing for.

Probably just a bit of covering his losses in the way that I bet against Hibs in cup finals.

How did they seriously think that was OK.

[JimBHibees]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24413563.labour-mp-hopeful-admits-helped-tory-campaign-last-election/

Not really a shock

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/scotnational/status/1806283700029604054?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

They could hardly suspend him when it’s approved by Scottish Labour.


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[superfurryhibby]

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24413563.labour-mp-hopeful-admits-helped-tory-campaign-last-election/

Behind a paywall.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/442412150_809712137932679_8001170931983530713_n.jp g?_nc_cat=103&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=833d8c&_nc_ohc=v6eL1i5e3IcQ7kNvgHVnDwx&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&oh=00_AYC005eDUqey2kwNrFjyRCorjkyPSghRuXi_c3OtC-95kQ&oe=6683775D

[grunt]

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GRKydvQXsAAlbUC?format=png&name=small

[cabbageandribs1875]

damn well done, another little bloody nose for Sir Starmer (1) Damien Willey 🟢 🔴 on X: "Huge news and a massive blow to Keir Starmer's supposed authority, that 72 members of Islington North CLP, with a week to go until polling day have issued a joint resignation statement, saying enough is enough and they're walking to campaign and vote for Jeremy Corbyn. Starmer https://t.co/x3g9lVEqWM" / X (https://x.com/KernowDamo/status/1806758304775029173)

[cabbageandribs1875]

poor Lammy is feeling the pinch as well LammyOut on X: "Lammy claims he is 'feeling the pinch'. Well, let's take a look at his registered interests over the last year shall we: 💰£91.3k as an MP 💰£10k+ as a landlord 💰£57.1k from LBC 💰£15.3k from speaking engagements 💰£70k Gary Lubner 💰£12.5k Waheed Ali 1/2🧵 #LammyOut https://t.co/4nYPu3c04R" / X (twitter.com) (https://twitter.com/LammyOut/status/1807111228319211802)

we should have a whipround

[Stairway 2 7]

Brilliant speech from Rachel Reeves and what I see as the biggest subject for under 40s. It's devolved but hopefully it wakes SNP into doing similar, if they don't it'll help Sarwar being able to do it as FM

- Reform the national planning policy framework in order to deliver infrastructure

- Restore mandatory housing targets for the government

Reeves: “With these steps we have done more to unblock the planning system in the last 72 hours than the last government did in 14 years."
- Get councils to hit council house building targets

- Decisions on large projects will be taken nationally, rather than locally

[JimBHibees]

Brilliant speech from Rachel Reeves and what I see as the biggest subject for under 40s. It's devolved but hopefully it wakes SNP into doing similar, if they don't it'll help Sarwar being able to do it as FM

- Reform the national planning policy framework in order to deliver infrastructure

- Restore mandatory housing targets for the government

Reeves: “With these steps we have done more to unblock the planning system in the last 72 hours than the last government did in 14 years."
- Get councils to hit council house building targets

- Decisions on large projects will be taken nationally, rather than locally

Why did Labour not do any of that when Blair and Brown were in charge?

[grunt]

- Decisions on large projects will be taken nationally, rather than locally
So we're going to have a nuclear power plant imposed on us over the heads of the SG?

[lapsedhibee]

So we're going to have a nuclear power plant imposed on us over the heads of the SG?

Or a bridge to NornIron! :grr:

[Stairway 2 7]

Why did Labour not do any of that when Blair and Brown were in charge?

You'd have to ask Blair or Brown. Almost 15 years ago so not really relevant to this government. Plus house building numbers halved in the 5 years after labour lost compared to their last 5 years. When Gordon brown left 4 million adults lived with their parents in was 4.9 10 years later. We've also had a massive increase of immigration since brexit, net migration of 2 million the last 2 years who all need homes.

Migrants are a net positive to a nation so the money is their just the will. I've no idea why the tories didn't build, Nimbyism or wanting to increase prices I'm unsure. Labour’s plan is great in comparison but it's not enough

[Stairway 2 7]

So we're going to have a nuclear power plant imposed on us over the heads of the SG?

I wish but I don't think so I think the small reactors are going to England. We should copy South Korea who have bet heavily on modern small nuclear reactors and are getting them built at a quarter of what we pay, mainly due to planning and process pricing. Even Poland is going to going to have a 470MW Rolls Royce small reactor whilst we will probably talk do nothing and get a third of our electricity from burning gas.

[lapsedhibee]

I've no idea why the tories didn't build

Number of landlords in the Tory ranks might have been a factor. Chancellor Hunt forgot how many properties he had. They wouldn't have wanted rents to fall back to anything resembling reasonable.

[Kato]

Why did Labour not do any of that when Blair and Brown were in charge?Most people were happy with the cheap credit on the go back then.

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[marinello59]

Why did Labour not do any of that when Blair and Brown were in charge?

That was 15 years ago.. things have changed massively.
Do you think it’s the right thing to do now?

[RyeSloan]

I wish but I don't think so I think the small reactors are going to England. We should copy South Korea who have bet heavily on modern small nuclear reactors and are getting them built at a quarter of what we pay, mainly due to planning and process pricing. Even Poland is going to going to have a 470MW Rolls Royce small reactor whilst we will probably talk do nothing and get a third of our electricity from burning gas.

It’s taken a while since it was first announced in 2015 but the UK’s decision on what technology to base mini reactors on is due this year.

Labour will hopefully work with GBN to ensure no further delays in this process. GBN has also purchased a couple of ‘nuclear ready’ sites from Hitachi so you would hope that this is a perfect use case for the new planning laws in that they will allow speedier development once the final design is chosen.

In an Industrial policy world you could also suggest that they just get on with it and back the RR tech and therefore ensure they keep the substantial design and build knowledge and jobs in the U.K.
But easy for me to say as the consequences of backing the wrong design won’t come back on me [emoji1787]

Poland is pushing ahead with two designs, one of which is RR tech but is still at the ‘decision in principle’ stage so they also have a bit to go.

[JimBHibees]

That was 15 years ago.. things have changed massively.
Do you think it’s the right thing to do now?

Yes however many of the issues were created by their total inaction at that time.

[JimBHibees]

You'd have to ask Blair or Brown. Almost 15 years ago so not really relevant to this government. Plus house building numbers halved in the 5 years after labour lost compared to their last 5 years. When Gordon brown left 4 million adults lived with their parents in was 4.9 10 years later. We've also had a massive increase of immigration since brexit, net migration of 2 million the last 2 years who all need homes.

Migrants are a net positive to a nation so the money is their just the will. I've no idea why the tories didn't build, Nimbyism or wanting to increase prices I'm unsure. Labour’s plan is great in comparison but it's not enough

Of course it is relevant it is the same party

[RyeSloan]

So we're going to have a nuclear power plant imposed on us over the heads of the SG?

No.

[Stairway 2 7]

It’s taken a while since it was first announced in 2015 but the UK’s decision on what technology to base mini reactors on is due this year.

Labour will hopefully work with GBN to ensure no further delays in this process. GBN has also purchased a couple of ‘nuclear ready’ sites from Hitachi so you would hope that this is a perfect use case for the new planning laws in that they will allow speedier development once the final design is chosen.

In an Industrial policy world you could also suggest that they just get on with it and back the RR tech and therefore ensure they keep the substantial design and build knowledge and jobs in the U.K.
But easy for me to say as the consequences of backing the wrong design won’t come back on me [emoji1787]

Poland is pushing ahead with two designs, one of which is RR tech but is still at the ‘decision in principle’ stage so they also have a bit to go.

I thought Poland had agreed on RR or is it one of 2, they plan to build 6 reactors from 2026

https://www.power-technology.com/news/rolls-royce-smr-construction-approved-by-polish-ministry/?cf-view
Rolls-Royce SMRs construction approved by Polish Ministry
The 470MW reactors constitute a key part of Poland’s nuclear plans.


Read south Korea leading the way with 27 nuclear reactors just now and adding 4, they are also wanting to export 80 reactors by 2030. Building on mass makes it so cheap for SK, I read they are in talks to build one for the uk in Wales

https://www.britainremade.co.uk/revealed_britain_is_one_of_the_most_expensive_plac es_in_the_world_to_build_new_nuclear

While Britain builds for £9.42m per MW, South Korea can build one for just £2.24m per MW.

[Stairway 2 7]

Yes however many of the issues were created by their total inaction at that time.

You didn't read my post? House building was halved when the tories came into power, 2 million migrants net in 3 years makes the comparison irrelevant.

More than that they are different governments it's as daft as comparing Corbyn to Starmer or the SNP for what they did in the 70s

[Ozyhibby]

Number of landlords in the Tory ranks might have been a factor. Chancellor Hunt forgot how many properties he had. They wouldn't have wanted rents to fall back to anything resembling reasonable.

The Tory govt were no friend of Landlords. The section 24 tax change has decimated buy to let investing more than any change Labour or the SNP have managed.


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[Bostonhibby]

Why did Labour not do any of that when Blair and Brown were in charge?Could be because Blair & Brown were presented with a different set of circumstances / challenges than the current Tory car crash that the present government has inherited?

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[lapsedhibee]

The Tory govt were no friend of Landlords. The section 24 tax change has decimated buy to let investing more than any change Labour or the SNP have managed.


Was more suggesting they were friends of themselves, rather than landlords in general. I doubt whether Hunt, for example, was affected by that change you mention.

[Ozyhibby]

Was more suggesting they were friends of themselves, rather than landlords in general. I doubt whether Hunt, for example, was affected by that change you mention.

Depends on if he owns the properties personally or they are inside a Ltd company.


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[JimBHibees]

Could be because Blair & Brown were presented with a different set of circumstances / challenges than the current Tory car crash that the present government has inherited?

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Yes but they sold off loads of council houses and built none

[JimBHibees]

You didn't read my post? House building was halved when the tories came into power, 2 million migrants net in 3 years makes the comparison irrelevant.

More than that they are different governments it's as daft as comparing Corbyn to Starmer or the SNP for what they did in the 70s

Blair sold off loads of council houses and built none

[Bostonhibby]

Yes but they sold off loads of council houses and built none[emoji106] sorry, I was more focussed on all the other things the new government has inherited that aren't legacy housing related issues - which I feel track back to Thatcher selling off council stock very cheaply and not replacing what was sold.

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[lapsedhibee]

Depends on if he owns the properties personally or they are inside a Ltd company.


Yeah, they're in a limited company. Appears I have been wrong to think of Hunt as a selfservative.

[RyeSloan]

I thought Poland had agreed on RR or is it one of 2, they plan to build 6 reactors from 2026

https://www.power-technology.com/news/rolls-royce-smr-construction-approved-by-polish-ministry/?cf-view
Rolls-Royce SMRs construction approved by Polish Ministry
The 470MW reactors constitute a key part of Poland’s nuclear plans.


Read south Korea leading the way with 27 nuclear reactors just now and adding 4, they are also wanting to export 80 reactors by 2030. Building on mass makes it so cheap for SK, I read they are in talks to build one for the uk in Wales

https://www.britainremade.co.uk/revealed_britain_is_one_of_the_most_expensive_plac es_in_the_world_to_build_new_nuclear

While Britain builds for £9.42m per MW, South Korea can build one for just £2.24m per MW.

Yeah they are also going for the GE Hitachi offering as well.

Which kind of shows you don’t need to go down the competition route the U.K. has taken. They have obviously looked at the offerings and decided just to bash on with the two they think hedges their bets the best.

[Kato]

Of course it is relevant it is the same partyIs it? That was New Labour. The technocratic style of this govt is very old school Labour, the mission is similar as well given the wreckage of war, one military the more recent cultural.

By the end of Blairs' 1st parliament we had nothing but sticking plasters and no real plan other than to make the sticking plasters bigger (the notion of "in work benefits" later on just about summed them up). His second term may have been better but he had wars, his "showbiz" years in his head as he noticed a place in history, the booby trap of PFI and then financial world events undone them.



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[Ozyhibby]

Is it? That was New Labour. The technocratic style of this govt is very old school Labour, the mission is similar as well given the wreckage of war, one military the more recent cultural.

By the end of Blairs' 1st parliament we had nothing but sticking plasters and no real plan other than to make the sticking plasters bigger (the notion of "in work benefits" later on just about summed them up). His second term may have been better but he had wars, his "showbiz" years in his head as he noticed a place in history, the booby trap of PFI and then financial world events undone them.



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That’s the thing about new Labour. None of it lasted.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Blair sold off loads of council houses and built none

Another reason why it has zero relevance to this government. I called people ridiculous for calling this SNP government tartan tories for helping bring down the government too. What about praising Trump for the republicans helping end slavery.

I feel Labour’s targets are too low but I'm glad of the reform change and the pushing councils to build more houses.

[Kato]

That’s the thing about new Labour. None of it lasted.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkA sticking plaster doesn't last long.

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[Ozyhibby]

Another reason why it has zero relevance to this government. I called people ridiculous for calling this SNP government tartan tories for helping bring down the government too. What about praising Trump for the republicans helping end slavery.

I feel Labour’s targets are too low but I'm glad of the reform change and the pushing councils to build more houses.

An important distinction is that they are not building council houses. All I’ve heard so far is an increase in the number of private houses being built by house builders. Still very welcome but no money has been allocated for building social housing?


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[Stairway 2 7]

An important distinction is that they are not building council houses. All I’ve heard so far is an increase in the number of private houses being built by house builders. Still very welcome but no money has been allocated for building social housing?


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No one is building them unfortunately and with council budgets slashed I can't see that changing. You take the good where it comes though. Planning reform is one of the biggest restrictions on the UK, change that and we're getting somewhere. When we need 4 million homes now to match our western European peers I'm really not bothered what they are if they actually come, they all won't with this plan mind

[Moulin Yarns]

No one is building them unfortunately and with council budgets slashed I can't see that changing. You take the good where it comes though. Planning reform is one of the biggest restrictions on the UK, change that and we're getting somewhere. When we need 4 million homes now to match our western European peers I'm really not bothered what they are if they actually come, they all won't with this plan mind

I can confirm what I posted a few weeks ago that pkc are building /converting buildings in pitlochry to create around 20 new council houses. In a town of 2,500 that's a decent amount. To do this they are spending £8.5m on an enlarged school community campus. StevieC of this parish will know more than me.

I got some information from a former colleague who works on housing in the planning sector.

Did I say it is an snp led council 😉

[Stairway 2 7]

I can confirm what I posted a few weeks ago that pkc are building /converting buildings in pitlochry to create around 20 new council houses. In a town of 2,500 that's a decent amount. To do this they are spending £8.5m on an enlarged school community campus. StevieC of this parish will know more than me.

I got some information from a former colleague who works on housing in the planning sector.

Did I say it is an snp led council 😉

Yes but that's 20 houses in a town I'm talking nation wide. Scotland has even less spare homes available than England 1.5% to 3% England. Uk has the third lowest amount of homes free in the OECD. We had 25% less homes starting to get built last year than the year before only 16,000. Scotland had 2,073 housing association houses built last year the lowest since 1988, 1,192 council houses built the lowest since 2013.

Things are getting worse. If we match Labour we'd have to double the housebuilding but I think we should do better and need to as our problem is bigger

[Moulin Yarns]

Yes but that's 20 houses in a town I'm talking nation wide. Scotland has even less spare homes available than England 1.5% to 3% England. Uk has the third lowest amount of homes free in the OECD. We had 25% less homes starting to get built last year than the year before only 16,000. Scotland had 2,073 housing association houses built last year the lowest since 1988, 1,192 council houses built the lowest since 2013.

Things are getting worse. If we match Labour we'd have to double the housebuilding but I think we should do better and need to as our problem is bigger

What is getting built is council houses, providing a 2.5% bedroom increase for working people in a tourist area. What's not to like?

[jamie_1875]

Edinburgh council recently bought a load of old army homes at Dreghorn and are turning them into council homes.

[Stairway 2 7]

What is getting built is council houses, providing a 2.5% bedroom increase for working people in a tourist area. What's not to like?

I'm delighted for the owners of they 20 homes but it'll be no consolation to the growing numbers of adults having to live 8th parents. It's a bit like saying my one shop is doing great so I'm fed up about the nation complaining about brexit. We obviously need to look nationwide where we have an increasing problem

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm delighted for the owners of they 20 homes but it'll be no consolation to the growing numbers of adults having to live 8th parents. It's a bit like saying my one shop is doing great so I'm fed up about the nation complaining about brexit. We obviously need to look nationwide where we have an increasing problem

They won't be owned, they are council houses for rent!!!!

[Stairway 2 7]

They won't be owned, they are council houses for rent!!!!

Mature conversation 👍 Could talk about any of the points I've said or just stick with the nationwide numbers don't matter as there's 20 council houses built in Pitlochry

[grunt]

Social media in summary:

"here's a good thing"

"it's not good enough!!!!"

[Stairway 2 7]

Social media in summary:

"here's a good thing"

"it's not good enough!!!!"

Bizarre take. Surely most normal people look at nationwide statistics. We've the least council houses built last year in a decade, they 20 will be included. A field next to my work started building 500 houses. I don't go oh well housebuilding is going well in Scotland, I look and see housebuilding is 25% down in a year.

We need to look at the bigger picture and not just in our back yard. This conversation was about Labour though and the much needed planning reforms. It's a very positive step although not nearly enough

[Ozyhibby]

Bizarre take. Surely most normal people look at nationwide statistics. We've the least council houses built last year in a decade, they 20 will be included. A field next to my work started building 500 houses. I don't go oh well housebuilding is going well in Scotland, I look and see housebuilding is 25% down in a year.

We need to look at the bigger picture and not just in our back yard. This conversation was about Labour though and the much needed planning reforms. It's a very positive step although not nearly enough

A great example of the delays that we need to get rid of is at the old Craigroyston school ash pitch. The houses are being built now but that land has been earmarked for those houses for more than 10 years. What was the hold up? It appears to be housing association but I can’t say for sure but there seems to be no reason it should have taken so long? We will never solve this problem when that is how we go about building houses.


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[grunt]

A field next to my work started building 500 houses. I don't go oh well housebuilding is going well in Scotland, I look and see housebuilding is 25% down in a year. :greengrin

[RyeSloan]

No one is building them unfortunately and with council budgets slashed I can't see that changing. You take the good where it comes though. Planning reform is one of the biggest restrictions on the UK, change that and we're getting somewhere. When we need 4 million homes now to match our western European peers I'm really not bothered what they are if they actually come, they all won't with this plan mind

Did councils directly employ all the trades n brickies etc back in the ‘glory days’ of the 50’s?

Must admit I’m not clear on how all that housing was built or how it was funded.

As the council can’t even organise for bins to be collected I shudder to think what it would be like if they were to employ direct labour forces to build houses!

Conceptually though you would think that there is space for such a thing which could be directly linked to colleges and apprenticeships etc to develop skills and jobs. The houses could be designed centrally around key themes on energy efficiency, cost effective building methods etc and then rolled out across the country…all on land bought for non planning cost via some sort of compulsory orders.

The outcome would be well designed, affordable housing built by a non profit which created jobs and skills. Some of the housing could be sold to reinvest the proceeds to make the venture self funding while the rest would be social housing with rent set as low as possible to ensure affordability but proper maintenance (using some of those new skills!)

Probably a thousand reasons why a publicly run / owned builder of such an ilk would not work but I’d like to see some sort of ambition on that front.

The alternative seems to be to bribe for profit house builders to build more houses than they think the market can take without lowering prices and types of houses they might not want to build…which doesn’t strike me as good or affordable long term plan!

[Jack]

I really don't see what's wrong, apparently, with posters pointing out local examples of what is, or isn't happening around the country 🤔

We can surely all welcome these positive stories while at the same time being concerned about the national picture. They are not mutually exclusive.






As a besides. I thought housebuilders were required to include a certain percentage of new projects to social or affordable housing. I know some councils allowed developers to make a financial contribution in lieu. If that is still the case then it's a good story all round that these 10s of thousands of private houses are being built.


Edit: And if Edinburgh Council stopped approving ****** student accommodation making it clear that residential housing would be more easily approved then that might be a move in the right direction 😠

[Stairway 2 7]

I really don't see what's wrong, apparently, with posters pointing out local examples of what is, or isn't happening around the country 🤔

We can surely all welcome these positive stories while at the same time being concerned about the national picture. They are not mutually exclusive.






As a besides. I thought housebuilders were required to include a certain percentage of new projects to social or affordable housing. I know some councils allowed developers to make a financial contribution in lieu. If that is still the case then it's a good story all round that these 10s of thousands of private houses are being built.

They do make a certain amount available to affordable housing but it's not affordable to many. Regardless with house building dropping by 25% these will fall in line. We have a housing emergency in Scotland and things are getting worse so I don't see any good news stories.

As for student accommodation we need it massively. The students are coming regardless. Overseas students can pay 20k per year for education and pay over £700 per room for housing. If they don't go in accommodation they will outbid most families for a flat or house. We should do what is happening in Glasgow with their new 36 story student skyscraper, put it down the shore and free up space. I don't see why the council don't own the student accommodation so we get the profits

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cd1d2y3rl92o?at_campaign_type=owned&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_link_type=web_link&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_link_id=D38B5934-3DDF-11EF-A1E8-F3640D709B99&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_medium=social&at_format=link&at_bbc_team=editorial

At last we are getting some acknowledgement of the problem. Solutions might be some time away.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Mature conversation 👍 Could talk about any of the points I've said or just stick with the nationwide numbers don't matter as there's 20 council houses built in Pitlochry

This started when you said no council houses were being built to which I replied to you that I was aware of 20 which will be provided in my small town.

Don't get arsey just because someone has the nerve to point out that you are wrong!!!

[Stairway 2 7]

This started when you said no council houses were being built to which I replied to you that I was aware of 20 which will be provided in my small town.

Don't get arsey just because someone has the nerve to point out that you are wrong!!!

JimBHibees said Blair built no council houses. Oz replied Labour won't be building houses now, I replied no party will be. Well done your 20 proved all of us wrong, Blair did build houses Labour and SNP will.

All 3 of knew we meant basically a tiny amount of council houses will be built and were built by new Labour. The playground like battle of semantics is draining.

It's not just about council houses though we need to build all types, they were correct to call a housing emergency but they must act on that

[Moulin Yarns]

JimBHibees said Blair built no council houses. Oz replied Labour won't be building houses now, I replied no party will be. Well done your 20 proved all of us wrong, Blair did build houses Labour and SNP will.

All 3 of knew we meant basically a tiny amount of council houses will be built and were built by new Labour. The playground like battle of semantics is draining.

It's not just about council houses though we need to build all types, they were correct to call a housing emergency but they must act on that

I don't think politicians are in a position to build houses. The biggest problem is the large amount of land banks in the hands of the house builders. They want profit so keep the volume of new house completions low.

[Stairway 2 7]

I don't think politicians are in a position to build houses. The biggest problem is the large amount of land banks in the hands of the house builders. They want profit so keep the volume of new house completions low.

I agree that is a huge problem and utter greed but politicians can and have put time limits on purchase of land and building time. Planning laws are too slow in the uk and in control of council groups who are too anti building. 55k people are homeless in Scotland and 16k kids, it's unfair in a wealthy nation

[Moulin Yarns]

I agree that is a huge problem and utter greed but politicians can and have put time limits on purchase of land and building time. Planning laws are too slow in the uk and in control of council groups who are too anti building. 55k people are homeless in Scotland and 16k kids, it's unfair in a wealthy nation

Just had a look at the local development plan for pitlochry, last one is 2019, so a new one is due (every 5 years). I was involved in part of the ldp before I retired.

There are 2 housing development sites, one is owned by a local builder in bridge of earn with capacity of up to 85 houses, the other is currently grazing land with a capacity of up to 105 houses. So 190 new houses could be built in a town of 2,500. I worry about the infrastructure. A single small supermarket, 1 bank, a school at 95% capacity, doctor surgery busy with elderly patients.

[silverhibee]

A great example of the delays that we need to get rid of is at the old Craigroyston school ash pitch. The houses are being built now but that land has been earmarked for those houses for more than 10 years. What was the hold up? It appears to be housing association but I can’t say for sure but there seems to be no reason it should have taken so long? We will never solve this problem when that is how we go about building houses.


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The biggest scandal is how long does it take to build Pennywell shopping centre, they seemed to have rebuilt Muirhouse but just can’t get the shopping centre finished.

[Ozyhibby]

The biggest scandal is how long does it take to build Pennywell shopping centre, they seemed to have rebuilt Muirhouse but just can’t get the shopping centre finished.

You can bet other parts of the city wouldn’t take so long.


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[Keith_M]

I think the situation is summed up pretty well by the commonly used term 'Affordable Housing'.

The fact they have to even use a term like that (rightly) implies that housing in general is actually un-affordable

We could go round in circles discussing the efficiencies/deficiencies of various housing rental groups, such as Councils and Housing Associations, but the main thing is that we really need to get back to the situations where non-profit groups like these are the ones providing genuinely affordable housing.

This would need to be organised from the top down, meaning Westminster arranging the funding and overseeing the building of these properties.

Unfortunately, that's where I see the biggest problem, as the previous and current governments are too invested (many of them literally) in house building for profit that I can't ever see them putting this in motion... as it would badly affect their relationships with party donors.

[Kato]

I think the situation is summed up pretty well by the commonly used term 'Affordable Housing'.

The fact they have to even use a term like that (rightly) implies that housing in general is actually un-affordable

.



Generic, banal gaslighting.

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[grunt]

Meet the new boss; same as the old boss.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/labour-backtracks-decision-drop-objection-icc-arrest-warrants

UK's Labour 'backtracks' on decision to drop objection to ICC arrest warrants

[JimBHibees]

Meet the new boss; same as the old boss.

https://www.middleeasteye.net/news/labour-backtracks-decision-drop-objection-icc-arrest-warrants

UK's Labour 'backtracks' on decision to drop objection to ICC arrest warrants

Pathetic and so lacking in any sort of moral compass. Wonder what guys like Robin Cook would have made of that

[Moulin Yarns]

Surprised no one has mentioned Vaughan gethings resignation.

[grunt]

Surprised no one has mentioned Vaughan gethings resignation.I'm pretending to be BBC Scotland.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm pretending to be BBC Scotland.

😁

[weecounty hibby]

I'm pretending to be BBC Scotland.
Its ok, I'm sure Anas will be along to give an interview demanding that the Welsh government stand down because of it

[Paul1642]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ng5n0my0zo

Labour chancellor Rachael Reeves publicly suggesting that she will accept above inflation pay requests for the public sector in England.

Puts the SNP in an interesting position up here, especially when these pay rises would presumably be reflecting in money received via the Barnett formula.

[Callum_62]

https://x.com/RachelReevesMP/status/1815426360258560381?t=Jrbwr11dpQ_0Xvw9lHGnGw&s=19

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[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/RachelReevesMP/status/1815426360258560381?t=Jrbwr11dpQ_0Xvw9lHGnGw&s=19

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Good


Jessica Elgot
@jessicaelgot
NEW - HMT is starting process for Reeves to appoint Covid corruption tsar with instructions to claw back billions

Appointee expected within weeks and will re-examine Covid contracts for government lawyers to pursue costs. Hopes are to retrieve £2.6bn

The commissioner will work with HMRC, the Serious Fraud Office and the National Crime Agency to examine an estimated £7.6bn worth of Covid-related fraud.

“I will not tolerate waste. I will treat taxpayers’ money with respect and I will return stability to our public finances."

[DaveF]

Govt defeat proposal to scrap 2 child benefit cap.

7 labour MPs rebel.

At least labour kept their word and didn't u-turn on this one 🙄

[DaveF]

And those 7 MPs are now Independents for 6 months as result.

Govt showing that internal dissent won't be tolerated. It's almost like the Tories never left.

[JimBHibees]

Govt defeat proposal to scrap 2 child benefit cap.

7 labour MPs rebel.

At least labour kept their word and didn't u-turn on this one 🙄

Shocking to be honest how very Tory

[Pretty Boy]

It's a sad day when voting to remove children from poverty is worthy of removal of the Labour whip.

I don't want to hear any tosh about having to be disciplined in government either. Something like this is a matter of conscience and it's disappointing, if not remotely surprising, so many put party and career before that.

[Ozyhibby]

It's a sad day when voting to remove children from poverty is worthy of removal of the Labour whip.

I don't want to hear any tosh about having to be disciplined in government either. Something like this is a matter of conscience and it's disappointing, if not remotely surprising, so many put party and career before that.

To be fair to the Labour Party, they said they were going to do it and people voted for them on that basis all over Scotland. This one is on the voters.


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[DaveF]

To be fair to the Labour Party, they said they were going to do it and people voted for them on that basis all over Scotland. This one is on the voters.


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Those Scottish voters were probably listening to Sarwar who is apparently against the cap but doing hee haw about it apart from the odd meaningless soundbite.

[Stairway 2 7]

To be fair to the Labour Party, they said they were going to do it and people voted for them on that basis all over Scotland. This one is on the voters.


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Read polls in UK and Scotland and decent majority want it kept unbelievably, the public don't like large benefits bar pensions. The old crap if you can't afford kids don't have them, even though as a aging nation we badly need kids.

I don't know why the SNP Westminster group tabled it but chose not to end it in Scotland. They can top up any benefit they want, like they do with the bedroom tax. They say doing it would take money from elsewhere but that's Labour’s crap excuse. No magic money tree nonsense, you prioritise spending and kids in poverty is at the top. We get 30% per head more than England so we could do it.

If we're going stop people having kids we're going to have to have large immigration numbers and that seems political poison just now

[Ozyhibby]

Read polls in UK and Scotland and decent majority want it kept unbelievably, the public don't like large benefits bar pensions. The old crap if you can't afford kids don't have them, even though as a aging nation we badly need kids.

I don't know why the SNP Westminster group tabled it but chose not to end it in Scotland. They can top up any benefit they want, like they do with the bedroom tax. They say doing it would take money from elsewhere but that's Labour’s crap excuse. No magic money tree nonsense, you prioritise spending and kids in poverty is at the top. We get 30% per head more than England so we could do it.

If we're going stop people having kids we're going to have to have large immigration numbers and that seems political poison just now

The SNP do the Scottish Child Payment.


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[Stairway 2 7]

The SNP do the Scottish Child Payment.


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That doesn't cover the money although it is great. Swinney said yesterday they just don't have the money to mitigate it

[Stairway 2 7]

The SNP do the Scottish Child Payment.


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Ash Regan calling today for SNP to scrap the 2 child payment cap

https://archive.ph/OLMaX

While the party has called for it to be scrapped in Westminster, it has so far resisted calls to use the powers of the Scottish Government to ditch the policy in Scotland, saying it does not have enough money amid a challenging fiscal situation

It is estimated that scrapping the policy, which limits the amount people with more than two children can claim in benefits, would cost the UK Government £2.5 billion.
No exact figures are available for Scotland, but in 2018, then-Scottish Labour leader Richard Leonard scrapping it north of the Border would cost £69 million, or £87m in today’s money.
Regan told The National: “It is a scandal that in energy-rich Scotland, we have one in four children living in poverty in 2024. Lifting children out of poverty should be a national mission above party politics.

“My motion allows the Scottish Government to set an example for the new Labour UK Government and pressure them to lift the two-child cap in their first budget. The SNP at Westminster is calling for this, yet at Holyrood, they won’t back the same campaign led by Alba

“I am calling on my former SNP colleagues to show that Holyrood can be competent and ambitious again by working together constructively to prioritising lifting Scotland’s children out of poverty – the root cause of so many of our society’s challenges.”

No SNP MSPs have backed her motion and neither have they backed a motion from Labour’s Paul O’Kane which calls for the cap to be “removed as soon as the financial circumstances allow

[marinello59]

Starmer is deluded if he thinks removing the whip from these MPs makes him look strong. It demonstrates his weakness. A Labour party that can’t accommodate Zarah Sultana and Rebecca Long-Bailey within its ranks isn’t worthy of the name.

[MKHIBEE]

Starmer is deluded if he thinks removing the whip from these MPs makes him look strong. It demonstrates his weakness. A Labour party that can’t accommodate Zarah Sultana and Rebecca Long-Bailey within its ranks isn’t worthy of the name.It hasn’t been worthy of the name under Starmer at all.

[GlesgaeHibby]

That doesn't cover the money although it is great. Swinney said yesterday they just don't have the money to mitigate itThe Scottish Parliament shouldn't have to use block grant money to mitigate against awful reserved policies introduced by the Tories, and shamefully continued by Labour. However, they could take the money from something like the free bus travel for under 22s now that the Greens have been turfed out of government, which runs at over £100m per year. If they really wanted to tackle this as a priority they could find the money for it. Shameful that it has come to this though. Labour should have acknowledged the nation's finances are a mess after 14 years of the Tories, but been clear that this is a priority - and more importantly a point of principle - and they would find the money for this.

[Stairway 2 7]

Starmer is deluded if he thinks removing the whip from these MPs makes him look strong. It demonstrates his weakness. A Labour party that can’t accommodate Zarah Sultana and Rebecca Long-Bailey within its ranks isn’t worthy of the name.

He's a populist 60% of Britain's want it kept and 28% want it abolished according to yougov (59% to 31% in Scotland). Mostly weighed to younger voters wanting it scrapped, people who vote more want it kept. That's where we are child poverty is fair game and triple lock pension is untouchable due to who votes

Rumours they will scrap in the budget but I'd be dubious if the furore dies down sadly

[SHODAN]

The Tory vote is going to steadily go down with demographic change but Labour are sadly mistaken if they think that automatically translates to votes for them with **** like this.

[Hibrandenburg]

Starmer is deluded if he thinks removing the whip from these MPs makes him look strong. It demonstrates his weakness. A Labour party that can’t accommodate Zarah Sultana and Rebecca Long-Bailey within its ranks isn’t worthy of the name.

Especially over a vote that could have put food on some kids' tables.

[Ozyhibby]

The Scottish Parliament shouldn't have to use block grant money to mitigate against awful reserved policies introduced by the Tories, and shamefully continued by Labour. However, they could take the money from something like the free bus travel for under 22s now that the Greens have been turfed out of government, which runs at over £100m per year. If they really wanted to tackle this as a priority they could find the money for it. Shameful that it has come to this though. Labour should have acknowledged the nation's finances are a mess after 14 years of the Tories, but been clear that this is a priority - and more importantly a point of principle - and they would find the money for this.

Free bus travel has been a massive success and helps reduce congestion as well as reduce emissions.


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[NORTHERNHIBBY]

Starmer is deluded if he thinks removing the whip from these MPs makes him look strong. It demonstrates his weakness. A Labour party that can’t accommodate Zarah Sultana and Rebecca Long-Bailey within its ranks isn’t worthy of the name.


Whether it's right or wrong , I see the complete polar opposite. What the Tories were bereft of, was effective leadership. Sunak would take a week to make a 5 minute decision as he hummed and hoh-ed instead. There will be a rethink by more than a few right wing commentators who were smugly suggesting that it's only a matter of time until the cloak comes off and the full fat Corbyn agenda is implemented. That's totally quashed now.

[wookie70]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4ng5n0my0zoLabour chancellor Rachael Reeves publicly suggesting that she will accept above inflation pay requests for the public sector in England. Puts the SNP in an interesting position up here, especially when these pay rises would presumably be reflecting in money received via the Barnett formula.The SG have already published a three year remit that is arguably above inflation(if you use current CPI as a measure) It has been pretty much universally laughed at by Unions. I find it very confusing being a Union Rep these days. We seem to herald below CPI inflation awards as a win and reject out of hand remits that are, at least in terms of CPI, better. One thing that is certain is living standards for public servants has fallen pretty dramatically since 2008. Labour had just about recovered the decimation that occurred under Thatcher and Major. That journey needs to start again, hopefully before I get my "gold-plated" final salary pension(another benefit which now costs far more to deliver less.)

[Pretty Boy]

He's a populist 60% of Britain's want it kept and 28% want it abolished according to yougov (59% to 31% in Scotland). Mostly weighed to younger voters wanting it scrapped, people who vote more want it kept. That's where we are child poverty is fair game and triple lock pension is untouchable due to who votes

Rumours they will scrap in the budget but I'd be dubious if the furore dies down sadly

And people wonder why young people are less likely to vote than older people.

We desperately need to up our birth rate and you have a substantial numbers of boomers who seem desperate to kick their own children and grandchildren at every opportunity and political leaders who pander to them.

[Bristolhibby]

And people wonder why young people are less likely to vote than older people.

We desperately need to up our birth rate and you have a substantial numbers of boomers who seem desperate to kick their own children and grandchildren at every opportunity and political leaders who pander to them.

I despair at what our kids are going to do. My in laws gave us £30k for a deposit for our first house. We simply don’t have that money sloshing about. Pretty sure my in laws mortgage was paid off pretty early on a massive country house. I’ll be paying it until I retire in my mid 60s.

Uni fees (down here are massive). Shouldering them with insta debt that even my gen didn’t have to deal with (relatively low fees and loan).

J

[AgentDaleCooper]

To be fair to the Labour Party, they said they were going to do it and people voted for them on that basis all over Scotland. This one is on the voters.


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it's not their fault really - they didn't exactly have much choice. if there's anyone to blame, it's who-ever sets the political agenda, and the PLP members who are more set on serving this than they are the people who voted for them.

[AgentDaleCooper]

And people wonder why young people are less likely to vote than older people.

We desperately need to up our birth rate and you have a substantial numbers of boomers who seem desperate to kick their own children and grandchildren at every opportunity and political leaders who pander to them.

the entire schtick of the centre-"left" is essentially depress the young people into not turning out, and pandering to the 'sensible' people who are, through no fault of their own, more focussed on what is in front of them than the clearly dreadful direction we were going in.

If Labour somehow elected another genuinely left wing leader, the PLP would make absolutely sure that they didn't get in to power, just as they did in 2017. The fact is, that election proved that there is a massive popular vote out there to be taken if left wing policies are put forward by the right people (i.e. those that aren't quite so open to associating with holocaust deniers). If this doesn't happen across Europe, I can't see how we're going to avoid a truly horrific era.

[DaveF]

Reeves to give a statement today, which is essentially going to be about cuts and delays to promised projects.

Blaming the Tories for being less than truthful about things.

[Andy Bee]

Reeves to give a statement today, which is essentially going to be about cuts and delays to promised projects.

Blaming the Tories for being less than truthful about things.


Ah read my lips Dave, "there'll be no austerity"

[Stairway 2 7]

Ah read my lips Dave, "there'll be no austerity"

I don't think it'll be cuts based I think they have been softening up in the media to announce tax rises.

[DaveF]

I don't think it'll be cuts based I think they have been softening up in the media to announce tax rises.

Pat McFadden explicitly ruled that out on Sky this morning.

[Stairway 2 7]

Pat McFadden explicitly ruled that out on Sky this morning.

Surprised by that I thought they would have no choice. The English public hate tax rises even if it's for better services. Think they will be delighted if they can get away with not doing it. Although everything Mcfadden says is usually wrong so I'll wait for Reeves to spout her mince later

[Stairway 2 7]

I paper saying it could be mostly through capital gains tax. Hopefully fuel duty freeze ends

https://archive.ph/DqABa
However, the Chancellor is said to be considering raising capital gains tax – the levy imposed on shares or any other assets sold – in line with income tax. Experts say it could raise over £16bn a year.

Another option that has been pushed by Treasury civil servants is cutting pension tax relief for many middle-class workers.
The independent Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) has already estimated that introducing a flat, 30 per cent tax on contributions could bring in £2.7bn a year.

Sources familiar with the Chancellor’s thinking previously told i that options for tax increases could also include ending the fuel duty freeze – raising up to £4bn a year. Fuel duty has been frozen in nominal terms since 2011, and was cut by another 5p during the cost of living crisis

[grunt]

Labour should introduce a wealth tax.

[Bostonhibby]

Labour should introduce a wealth tax.A non- dom tax. Full disclosure of and investigation into offshore income. If you are a UK citizen / passport holder and spend time living here wherever you hide your assets to avoid paying your tax to your country you are liable to the same tax rates as the rest of us.

The option to move permanently to the country where the money is hidden will be there should you feel the need to get closer to it.

As if..........

Charities should be charities for those in need so hopefully labour swiftly deliver on ending the charitable status of "public" schools.

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[Ozyhibby]

The good thing is there won’t be any cuts because Anas Sarwar promised no austerity under Labour.


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[SHODAN]

Labour will not be forgiven for this. People expect this from the Tories but not Labour.

[Stairway 2 7]

Labour will not be forgiven for this. People expect this from the Tories but not Labour.

What is this, I've not seen anything announced? Talk of some road and rail building being dropped but I can't find anything else

[jamie_1875]

Labour will not be forgiven for this. People expect this from the Tories but not Labour.

From what? Have you seen the announcement being made at 3pm?

What if the black hole is paid for by increasing taxes such as capital gains and removing higher rate tax relief on pensions etc?

[Callum_62]

Dunno about anyone else but im outraged



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[Bostonhibby]

Dunno about anyone else but im outraged



Sent from my Pixel 7 Pro using TapatalkI'm sending my season ticket back.

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[tamig]

I'm sending my season ticket back.

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I’ll take a PM if there’s any going? Intrigued.

[Bostonhibby]

I’ll take a PM if there’s any going? Intrigued.[emoji16]Alright, let me rephrase. I'm not buying a season ticket so I can send it back or give it to some ragamuffin on the interweb.

If labour do something I don't agree with I swear I'll do time..........

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[grunt]

I never voted for them, so NONE of this is my fault.

[Stairway 2 7]

I never voted for them, so NONE of this is my fault.

Of what

[SHODAN]

Here you go lads. Austerity 2.0. Meanwhile the rich continue to get richer.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jul/28/rachel-reeves-to-set-out-plans-to-fill-the-shortfall-in-public-finances-left-by-tories

[Ozyhibby]

Here you go lads. Austerity 2.0. Meanwhile the rich continue to get richer.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jul/28/rachel-reeves-to-set-out-plans-to-fill-the-shortfall-in-public-finances-left-by-tories

They are doing a great job of conning everyone into thinking they didn’t know about this before the election.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Here you go lads. Austerity 2.0. Meanwhile the rich continue to get richer.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/article/2024/jul/28/rachel-reeves-to-set-out-plans-to-fill-the-shortfall-in-public-finances-left-by-tories

That still says nothing?

[Moulin Yarns]

Reeves says the last government overspent on the asylum system - including the Rwanda plan - by a projected £6.4bn this year.

"That was unfunded, and it was undisclosed," she tells the Commons.

She says the previous government "covered up the true extent of this crisis".

[Paul1642]

I paper saying it could be mostly through capital gains tax. Hopefully fuel duty freeze ends

https://archive.ph/DqABa
However, the Chancellor is said to be considering raising capital gains tax – the levy imposed on shares or any other assets sold – in line with income tax. Experts say it could raise over £16bn a year.

Another option that has been pushed by Treasury civil servants is cutting pension tax relief for many middle-class workers.
The independent Institute for Fiscal Studies (IFS) has already estimated that introducing a flat, 30 per cent tax on contributions could bring in £2.7bn a year.

Sources familiar with the Chancellor’s thinking previously told i that options for tax increases could also include ending the fuel duty freeze – raising up to £4bn a year. Fuel duty has been frozen in nominal terms since 2011, and was cut by another 5p during the cost of living crisis

Capital gains tax is okay with me in a selfish way as it won’t affect me and I would assume most of the working class? Could be wrong.

Would pension tax relief mean that 21% income tax payers still get their pension contributions tax free but those earning £43663 and above pay tax on some or all of their pension contributions? It’s probably quite simple but one I’m struggling slightly to understand how it works.

Also on the face of it it runs the risk of putting people of saving for their pension which is the opposite of what we want to achieve is it not? I’ve always imagined the long term plan is to start reducing the state pension and eventually phasing it out for those not on benefits. Also would this not then mean you potentially get taxed twice on the same income?

Fuel duty would be a slight pain but in a world where we want to cut miles driven by petrol and diesel cars it’s probably justified.

[Moulin Yarns]

Reeves announces Labour is scrapping the Advanced British Standard qualification - introduced by former prime minister Rishi Sunak.

She says the cost of the proposal "rises to billions" in future years and if the government cannot afford it, they will not pay for it.

"This was supposed to be Sunak's legacy - but it turns out he didn't put aside a single penny to pay for it," Reeves says.

[Ozyhibby]

Reeves announces Labour is scrapping the Advanced British Standard qualification - introduced by former prime minister Rishi Sunak.

She says the cost of the proposal "rises to billions" in future years and if the government cannot afford it, they will not pay for it.

"This was supposed to be Sunak's legacy - but it turns out he didn't put aside a single penny to pay for it," Reeves says.

It’s better to cut whole spending projects rather than just salami slicing things.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Reeves says the last government overspent on the asylum system - including the Rwanda plan - by a projected £6.4bn this year.

"That was unfunded, and it was undisclosed," she tells the Commons.

She says the previous government "covered up the true extent of this crisis".

How can that spend be possible, ridiculous. See they are scrapping the Bibby Stockholm barge, how much did that ******g thing cost

[Stairway 2 7]

Reeves says the last government overspent on the asylum system - including the Rwanda plan - by a projected £6.4bn this year.

"That was unfunded, and it was undisclosed," she tells the Commons.

She says the previous government "covered up the true extent of this crisis".

Hunt said it was known I uses Paul Johnson of IFS name. Johnson just replies that it looks like it was unfunded. They actually broke the bank to hammer immigrants with a disregard to the cost, ****

@BestForBritain
🚨Jeremy Hunt: "Paul Johnson of the IFS said the state of public finances were apparent pre-election to anyone who cared to look."

Paul Johnson today, saying Conservative asylum plans "genuinely appear to have been unfunded."

PJTheEconomist
Paul Johnson
30m
Rachel Reeves says £6.4bn overspend on asylum this year. Huge number. Does genuinely appear to have been unfunded

[Stairway 2 7]

End to winter fuel allowance to those not in receipt of pension credit or other benefits. Good a ridiculous benefit. Won't go down well as old people vote

[Stairway 2 7]

A bit of a red face for those saying Labour knew about these overspends.

https://x.com/faisalislam/status/1817942339068862806

Faisal Islam
@faisalislam
NEW OBR letter backs up Chancellor:

“We were made aware of the extent of these pressures at a meeting with the
Treasury last week. .. could “constitute one of the largest year-
ahead overspends against DEL forecasts outside of the pandemic years”

[weecounty hibby]

They are doing a great job of conning everyone into thinking they didn’t know about this before the election.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
They've got the press ontheir side at the moment so getting an easy ride. The record in Scotland is a Labour fanzine at the moment. The bbeb seem to have lost all contact with sarwar as well

[Stairway 2 7]

Labour confirm 20% tax or private schools, good

[Stairway 2 7]

OBR to launch a review into the Tory overspend and March budget. One of the biggest overspends ever outside covid. No one knew how bad the overspend was until this week. No wonder Jeremy Hunt looked like he was going to cry today, him and Rishi shouldn't be receiving a public wage right now


https://x.com/BenChu_/status/1817947736743833782

@BenChu_
Quite a letter from
@OBR_UK


- says unaware of 2024-25 spending pressures until this week (i.e not when it made its March forecast)
- points out it would be one of biggest in-year overspends on record
- launches review of "adequacy" of what HMT told it before the March Budget


Steven Swinford
@Steven_Swinford
BREAKING:

The OBR has announced a formal review into the preparations of the forecasts underlying the Conservative's Spring Statement

Richard Hughes, head of the OBR, says it would 'constitute one of the largest year ahead overspends against DEL forecasts outside of the pandemic years'

He says it is a 'serious' matter

But surely this also presents a significant issue for senior officials at the Treasury, who are all still there, including the permanent secretary James Bowler

[Ozyhibby]

OBR to launch a review into the Tory overspend and March budget. One of the biggest overspends ever outside covid. No one knew how bad the overspend was until this week. No wonder Jeremy Hunt looked like he was going to cry today, him and Rishi shouldn't be receiving a public wage right now


https://x.com/BenChu_/status/1817947736743833782

@BenChu_
Quite a letter from
@OBR_UK


- says unaware of 2024-25 spending pressures until this week (i.e not when it made its March forecast)
- points out it would be one of biggest in-year overspends on record
- launches review of "adequacy" of what HMT told it before the March Budget


Steven Swinford
@Steven_Swinford
BREAKING:

The OBR has announced a formal review into the preparations of the forecasts underlying the Conservative's Spring Statement

Richard Hughes, head of the OBR, says it would 'constitute one of the largest year ahead overspends against DEL forecasts outside of the pandemic years'

He says it is a 'serious' matter

But surely this also presents a significant issue for senior officials at the Treasury, who are all still there, including the permanent secretary James Bowler

To govern is to choose and to plug the gaps they have went straight for the cuts rather than tax the wealthy more.


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[Stairway 2 7]

To govern is to choose and to plug the gaps they have went straight for the cuts rather than tax the wealthy more.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

You said they knew about the overspend before hand when Reeves says they just found out. OBR confirmed they didn't realise until this week.

The only cut they confirmed was making the winter fuel means tested a tax on the wealthier. They confirmed a tax on the wealthy private school parents and the assumption is most of the gap will be plugged bya inheritance tax and fuel duty increase. There isn't much detail, we will find out more in the budget. I think they are softening up the public for tax increases as was expected. Scottish government will have to do the same.

[grunt]

The only cut they confirmed was making the winter fuel means tested a tax on the wealthier. I'm not sure you could reasonably describe someone who doesn't receive pension credit as in any way wealthy.
They confirmed a tax on the wealthy private school parents and the assumption is most of the gap will be plugged bya inheritance tax and fuel duty increase. There isn't much detail, we will find out more in the budget. I think they are softening up the public for tax increases as was expected. Scottish government will have to do the same.You say the Scottish Government will have to do the same yet all the taxes you describe (VAT on school fees, IHT and Fuel Duty) are reserved and SG has no control over them?

[degenerated]

The good thing is there won’t be any cuts because Anas Sarwar promised no austerity under Labour.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkTell that to all the OAPs who aren't on benefits who are going to lose their winter fuel allowance.
Something else then Scottish government will be expected to mitigate, you can bet your bottom dollar that Scotch Labour try to play politics with that one.

[Ozyhibby]

Tell that to all the OAPs who aren't on benefits who are going to lose their winter fuel allowance.
Something else then Scottish government will be expected to mitigate, you can bet your bottom dollar that Scotch Labour try to play politics with that one.

Also unfairly targets Scottish pensioners where energy is more expensive (amazingly) and the climate is a lot colder.


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[Paul1642]

Tell that to all the OAPs who aren't on benefits who are going to lose their winter fuel allowance.
Something else then Scottish government will be expected to mitigate, you can bet your bottom dollar that Scotch Labour try to play politics with that one.

Dammed if you do, dammed if you don’t.

There is an endless list of people and projects that need and deserve money spent on them, however there just isn’t the money to spend. Keeping this benefit would mean another crap decision elsewhere.

This decision will affect some people who rely on the money and that’s a problem I hope can be addressed somehow, but chucking a benefit at all people due to their age rather than finances is undeniably a poor use of money and unfortunately means testing it by another method is apparently much more difficult than it sounds. They’ve kept it for those on benefits so it’s not like they have scrapped it altogether.

The BBC summed it up nicely for me with this paragraph - “While pensioners have arguably been one of the better protected groups financially, they don’t necessarily feel that way”.

They’ve kept the triple lock and received an 8.5% increase in the state pension this year after receiving a 10.1% increase last year.

Most lower paid young workers out there could only dream of a 18.6% pay rise over two years.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm not sure you could reasonably describe someone who doesn't receive pension credit as in any way wealthy. You say the Scottish Government will have to do the same yet all the taxes you describe (VAT on school fees, IHT and Fuel Duty) are reserved and SG has no control over them?

I mean the Scottish government will have to chose to make cuts or raise taxes if the block grant is smaller as is expected. Labour just announced a massive £9 billion in public sector wage rises. Scotland will face similar this year including councils so again it's cuts somewhere or raise tax if you can. That's what a budget it it's not a surprise, the only surprise I saw was the tories hiding billions of uncosted spending

[Paul1642]

A bit of a red face for those saying Labour knew about these overspends.

https://x.com/faisalislam/status/1817942339068862806

Faisal Islam
@faisalislam
NEW OBR letter backs up Chancellor:

“We were made aware of the extent of these pressures at a meeting with the
Treasury last week. .. could “constitute one of the largest year-
ahead overspends against DEL forecasts outside of the pandemic years”

Would be conspiracy theory ish to suggest that the the reason for Sunak calling an election earlier than expected in seemingly unexplainable electoral suicide, was because the state of the finances are so f***** that he wanted it to be Labours problem ASAP?

[Kato]

Would be conspiracy theory ish to suggest that the the reason for Sunak calling an election earlier than expected in seemingly unexplainable electoral suicide, was because the state of the finances are so f***** that he wanted it to be Labours problem ASAP?Booby traps for years.

Yes, it's really hard to imagine that the most heinous, ideological, grasping govt we've ever had would put politics before country, not.

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[Stairway 2 7]

Would be conspiracy theory ish to suggest that the the reason for Sunak calling an election earlier than expected in seemingly unexplainable electoral suicide, was because the state of the finances are so f***** that he wanted it to be Labours problem ASAP?

Don't think it's conspiracy theory. OBR are independent and usually just comment of fact. They seem furious at how the tories have acted and hidden what was obviously going to eventually come out. Surely Hunt and Sunak should face a parliamentary investigation.

[DaveF]

Don't think it's conspiracy theory. OBR are independent and usually just comment of fact. They seem furious at how the tories have acted and hidden what was obviously going to eventually come out. Surely Hunt and Sunak should face a parliamentary investigation.

More chance of them getting knighted before being up before an investigation.

[Kato]

More chance of them getting knighted before being up before an investigation.Ersehole minions like Gavin Williamson get a knighthood. A knighthood is a mere bribe.

Fully fledged "evil masterminds", like Hunt (who made sure austerity hit the NHS as badly as possible) and Richi "Credit Crunch" Sunak, will be given the ermine robe treatment. They'll probably take the pleasure of slaughtering the ermine themselves.

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[Andy Bee]

Don't think it's conspiracy theory. OBR are independent and usually just comment of fact. They seem furious at how the tories have acted and hidden what was obviously going to eventually come out. Surely Hunt and Sunak should face a parliamentary investigation.


Not usually my goto journalist but have a read of this https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/there-is-nothing-new-about-rachel-reevess-20bn-black-hole/

I'm not falling for this narrative of the Tories done it and then hid all the evidence under the sofa from the very body whos remit is to scrutinise Government spending. There may be evidence that they've underplayed the level of migration costs but the vast majority of this black hole was known and made public months ago in an OBR assessment. The IFS warned about it and Stephen Flynn, John Swinney, Kate Forbes and Carla Denyer shouted from the rooftops about it on live TV. I listened to Rachel Reeves today try to explain that this black hole is a different black hole from the one Flynn etc warned about, she explained this black hole was due this year but the other, that's the other that Sarwar, Starmer and Rayner dismissed as fabrication was due over the course of the Government i.e. 5 years. Is she saying we've got 2 black holes now, one that's been discovered in the last few days and the other which now exists but a few weeks ago was dismissed, that's a lot of black holes? Personally I think we should call in Prof Brian Cox he's a black hole expert by all accounts.

They knew this was coming and they kept silent until after the election and are now playing the victim card, as usual they played the electorate for fools. The outcome so far after a few weeks......pensioners hit for Winter fuel payments, middle earners looking like they'll be hit on pension tax relief, fuel prices to rise, the social care cap scrapped and to top it all off MPs like Zara Sultana and John McDonell are now suspended. Yup it all feels quite refreshing with this new Government, I've got a new spring in my step and I await austerity mk2 with a vigour and ongoing optimism, it's really enlightening, living the dream here.

[Ozyhibby]

Not usually my goto journalist but have a read of this https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/there-is-nothing-new-about-rachel-reevess-20bn-black-hole/

I'm not falling for this narrative of the Tories done it and then hid all the evidence under the sofa from the very body whos remit is to scrutinise Government spending. There may be evidence that they've underplayed the level of migration costs but the vast majority of this black hole was known and made public months ago in an OBR assessment. The IFS warned about it and Stephen Flynn, John Swinney, Kate Forbes and Carla Denyer shouted from the rooftops about it on live TV. I listened to Rachel Reeves today try to explain that this black hole is a different black hole from the one Flynn etc warned about, she explained this black hole was due this year but the other, that's the other that Sarwar, Starmer and Rayner dismissed as fabrication was due over the course of the Government i.e. 5 years. Is she saying we've got 2 black holes now, one that's been discovered in the last few days and the other which now exists but a few weeks ago was dismissed, that's a lot of black holes? Personally I think we should call in Prof Brian Cox he's a black hole expert by all accounts.

They knew this was coming and they kept silent until after the election and are now playing the victim card, as usual they played the electorate for fools. The outcome so far after a few weeks......pensioners hit for Winter fuel payments, middle earners looking like they'll be hit on pension tax relief, fuel prices to rise, the social care cap scrapped and to top it all off MPs like Zara Sultana and John McDonell are now suspended. Yup it all feels quite refreshing with this new Government, I've got a new spring in my step and I await austerity mk2 with a vigour and ongoing optimism, it's really enlightening, living the dream here.

Anyone who paid any attention at all can see what has happened but they don’t really care. They won and that’s all that matters to them.


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[marinello59]

Not usually my goto journalist but have a read of this https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/there-is-nothing-new-about-rachel-reevess-20bn-black-hole/

I'm not falling for this narrative of the Tories done it and then hid all the evidence under the sofa from the very body whos remit is to scrutinise Government spending. There may be evidence that they've underplayed the level of migration costs but the vast majority of this black hole was known and made public months ago in an OBR assessment. The IFS warned about it and Stephen Flynn, John Swinney, Kate Forbes and Carla Denyer shouted from the rooftops about it on live TV. I listened to Rachel Reeves today try to explain that this black hole is a different black hole from the one Flynn etc warned about, she explained this black hole was due this year but the other, that's the other that Sarwar, Starmer and Rayner dismissed as fabrication was due over the course of the Government i.e. 5 years. Is she saying we've got 2 black holes now, one that's been discovered in the last few days and the other which now exists but a few weeks ago was dismissed, that's a lot of black holes? Personally I think we should call in Prof Brian Cox he's a black hole expert by all accounts.

They knew this was coming and they kept silent until after the election and are now playing the victim card, as usual they played the electorate for fools. The outcome so far after a few weeks......pensioners hit for Winter fuel payments, middle earners looking like they'll be hit on pension tax relief, fuel prices to rise, the social care cap scrapped and to top it all off MPs like Zara Sultana and John McDonell are now suspended. Yup it all feels quite refreshing with this new Government, I've got a new spring in my step and I await austerity mk2 with a vigour and ongoing optimism, it's really enlightening, living the dream here.

I guess we are going to see a lot more formerly discredited Tory leaning news sources being quoted here now. I love a regime change :greengrin

[Andy Bee]

I guess we are going to see a lot more formerly discredited Tory leaning news sources being quoted here now. I love a regime change :greengrin

Ahh please just don't, Kate Andrews is everything I hate about politics but sadly she's talking sense here.............spits

[Andy Bee]

Anyone who paid any attention at all can see what has happened but they don’t really care. They won and that’s all that matters to them.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


It;s all good mate, Tories will be back in five years and they'll sort all this **** out.

[Stairway 2 7]

Not usually my goto journalist but have a read of this https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/there-is-nothing-new-about-rachel-reevess-20bn-black-hole/

I'm not falling for this narrative of the Tories done it and then hid all the evidence under the sofa from the very body whos remit is to scrutinise Government spending. There may be evidence that they've underplayed the level of migration costs but the vast majority of this black hole was known and made public months ago in an OBR assessment. The IFS warned about it and Stephen Flynn, John Swinney, Kate Forbes and Carla Denyer shouted from the rooftops about it on live TV. I listened to Rachel Reeves today try to explain that this black hole is a different black hole from the one Flynn etc warned about, she explained this black hole was due this year but the other, that's the other that Sarwar, Starmer and Rayner dismissed as fabrication was due over the course of the Government i.e. 5 years. Is she saying we've got 2 black holes now, one that's been discovered in the last few days and the other which now exists but a few weeks ago was dismissed, that's a lot of black holes? Personally I think we should call in Prof Brian Cox he's a black hole expert by all accounts.

They knew this was coming and they kept silent until after the election and are now playing the victim card, as usual they played the electorate for fools. The outcome so far after a few weeks......pensioners hit for Winter fuel payments, middle earners looking like they'll be hit on pension tax relief, fuel prices to rise, the social care cap scrapped and to top it all off MPs like Zara Sultana and John McDonell are now suspended. Yup it all feels quite refreshing with this new Government, I've got a new spring in my step and I await austerity mk2 with a vigour and ongoing optimism, it's really enlightening, living the dream here.

So you believe the tories and the spectator over labour and the independent OBR and Paul Johnson of the IFS who the tories were quoting 3 months ago cool. There was obviously unfunded spending that was discovered this week, you're verging on conspiracy theory if your going against the independent experts.

[Bostonhibby]

So you believe the tories and the spectator over labour and the independent OBR and Paul Johnson of the IFS who the tories were quoting 3 months ago cool. There was obviously unfunded spending that was discovered this week, you're verging on conspiracy theory if your going against the independent experts.Yep, inconvenient truth, was just reminding myself of why the Nasty party set up the OBR in the first place and how recently they were positively citing Johnson.

Revenge of the bean counters seems an appropriate title. They've obviously found their apparent impartiality, created by the nasties, being leaned on/compromised by the nasties.

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[Ozyhibby]

So you believe the tories and the spectator over labour and the independent OBR and Paul Johnson of the IFS who the tories were quoting 3 months ago cool. There was obviously unfunded spending that was discovered this week, you're verging on conspiracy theory if your going against the independent experts.

That doesn’t account for the full amount of cuts planned. There is still the £20bn that Labour refused to acknowledge during the election.
Doesn’t really matter now. They won. They have 5 years to hope people forget.


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[weecounty hibby]

So you believe the tories and the spectator over labour and the independent OBR and Paul Johnson of the IFS who the tories were quoting 3 months ago cool. There was obviously unfunded spending that was discovered this week, you're verging on conspiracy theory if your going against the independent experts.

So how come Flynn, Swinney and Denyer talked about this constantly during the campaign? We're they just lucky to guess pretty accurately how much of a mess the public finances were in? Or was it pretty obvious to all and just that Labour, read my lips, lied? This is a continuation of Tory austerity which is a political choice

[Stairway 2 7]

That doesn’t account for the full amount of cuts planned. There is still the £20bn that Labour refused to acknowledge during the election.
Doesn’t really matter now. They won. They have 5 years to hope people forget.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Who says its cuts they will choose most are suggesting taxation, inheritance tax, fuel duty and private school VAT would cover the shortfall.

They have already stopped Rwanda policy, closed Biddy Stockholm barge, promised they will never leave ECHR, called for a two state solution for Israel, cancelled ICJ objection, ended tax free private schools, brought living wage down to 18, entered the cost of living into living wage formula, setting up nationalised rail, ended zero hour contracts, ended hereditary peers, ended ban on onshore wind farms, committed to 300k homes per year and easing planning, £9 billion of public sector wage rises in line with recommendations,

That's within a few weeks i think people will remember this more. This Labour government is centrist like the SNP but if SNP go with Labour and the Tories are the same they will get laughed out of leading the Scottish Parliament in 2 years.

[Stairway 2 7]

So how come Flynn, Swinney and Denyer talked about this constantly during the campaign? We're they just lucky to guess pretty accurately how much of a mess the public finances were in? Or was it pretty obvious to all and just that Labour, read my lips, lied? This is a continuation of Tory austerity which is a political choice

The £18 billion was capital spending and it was an IFS estimate for the years 2029/30. That is a completely different subject to uncosted spending this year.

How would SNP deal with the gap labour inherited or how would you? The only way is cuts or increase in taxes. I think and most do that they will increase tax.

[Ozyhibby]

Who says its cuts they will choose most are suggesting taxation, inheritance tax, fuel duty and private school VAT would cover the shortfall.

They have already stopped Rwanda policy, closed Biddy Stockholm barge, promised they will never leave ECHR, called for a two state solution for Israel, cancelled ICJ objection, ended tax free private schools, brought living wage down to 18, entered the cost of living into living wage formula, setting up nationalised rail, ended zero hour contracts, ended hereditary peers, ended ban on onshore wind farms, committed to 300k homes per year and easing planning, £9 billion of public sector wage rises in line with recommendations,

That's within a few weeks i think people will remember this more. This Labour government is centrist like the SNP but if SNP go with Labour and the Tories are the same they will get laughed out of leading the Scottish Parliament in 2 years.

That’s a wish list. Let’s wait and see how much of it happens.


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[weecounty hibby]

The £18 billion was capital spending and it was an IFS estimate for the years 2029/30. That is a completely different subject to uncosted spending this year.

How would SNP deal with the gap labour inherited or how would you? The only way is cuts or increase in taxes. I think and most do that they will increase tax.

So why would Swinney etc all correctly predict that this would mean cutting public services etc? And yes, I'd tax the bankers, multi millionaires and billionaires, non doms, big businesses etc correctly and appropriately rather than hit folk who have a need for cold weather allowances or have a private pension. The tax system needs to be simplified and adhered to, cut out loopholes that the rich can afford to pay accountants to find and use.

The problem with the super rich being taxed higher is that is where the party donations flow in from. I'll be interested to see Labour's spending on the election. Every leaflet I got from them was postie delivered, my son even got a personal letter from them again postie delivered. Social media presence was massive.

[Stairway 2 7]

So why would Swinney etc all correctly predict that this would mean cutting public services etc? And yes, I'd tax the bankers, multi millionaires and billionaires, non doms, big businesses etc correctly and appropriately rather than hit folk who have a need for cold weather allowances or have a private pension. The tax system needs to be simplified and adhered to, cut out loopholes that the rich can afford to pay accountants to find and use.

The problem with the super rich being taxed higher is that is where the party donations flow in from. I'll be interested to see Labour's spending on the election. Every leaflet I got from them was postie delivered, my son even got a personal letter from them again postie delivered. Social media presence was massive.

They have taxing non doms in the manifesto the rest is buzz words. So you would increase corporation tax it could work but they could also jump ship to Ireland. I don't see concrete plans. They are rumoured to be ending fuel tax freeze good the planet is dying, the majority is expected to come from inheritance tax that will target mainly the top 20%. Adding VAT to public schools will bring buildings and will also come from the top 20%

It seems they are suggesting paying the funds from the top 20% mainly.

Pensioners have had pension increases young people could only dream off. Those paying tent still or have dependents will still receive the allowance

Triple Lock means pensions rising 3x faster than inflation next year.. £600+ instead of £200 if in line with 2% inflation.

When the fuel allowance was brought in in 2000 the average pensioners income was 15k and pensioners received on average 29% less than a worker. They now receive 27k and 9% less than the average worker. 82% of pensioners own their home and 28% have assets of 1 million. I think the youth are getting a bit pd off with all the wealth and assets sitting with boomers

[Jack]

After 14 years of lying and thieving from the public purse folk all of a sudden think the torys are telling the truth. 😆

While labour undoubtedly went through the election with their fingers in their ears there was never any doubt the torys would leave a huge elephant trap for labour to deal with. It was only ever a question of size.

[Ozyhibby]

After 14 years of lying and thieving from the public purse folk all of a sudden think the torys are telling the truth. [emoji38]

While labour undoubtedly went through the election with their fingers in their ears there was never any doubt the torys would leave a huge elephant trap for labour to deal with. It was only ever a question of size.

Two things can be true at once. Yes the Tories managed things terribly and lied about how bad but there was also a £20bn hole in Labour’s figures as well which was pointed out but the IFS, OBR as well as the SNP before the election. Anas Sarwar called John Swinney a liar live on national television to his face for pointing it out.
For now, Labour can do no wrong but this is not a great start building trust.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Two things can be true at once. Yes the Tories managed things terribly and lied about how bad but there was also a £20bn hole in Labour’s figures as well which was pointed out but the IFS, OBR as well as the SNP before the election. Anas Sarwar called John Swinney a liar live on national television to his face for pointing it out.
For now, Labour can do no wrong but this is not a great start building trust.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The figures were different things. The IFS said by 2029/30 £18 bil could be needed depending on inflation and raising defence spending, NHS workforce plan, maintain overseas aid and expand free childcare. I'm sure you agree with all these costs.

That is all speculation and depending on what the chose to pay in the next 5 years. The biggest actual rise in the budget announced yesterday was actually the £9 billion for public sector workers. Would SNP oppose that and screen austerity

Labour hasn't done a budget yet so how can anyone say cuts or austerity, that is just playing politics. It they take the money from raising taxes from this most well off, will you be back saying well done. If the cover it with cut then fair enough. I reckon it will be tax rises, we will see I suppose

[greenginger]

After 14 years of lying and thieving from the public purse folk all of a sudden think the torys are telling the truth. 😆 While labour undoubtedly went through the election with their fingers in their ears there was never any doubt the torys would leave a huge elephant trap for labour to deal with. It was only ever a question of size.What’s new ? The last Labour government to leave in 2010 even made a joke about it.A note saying “ sorry there’s no money left “ was put on the desk for the incoming Conservative chancellor.

[Moulin Yarns]

What’s new ? The last Labour government to leave in 2010 even made a joke about it.A note saying “ sorry there’s no money left “ was put on the desk for the incoming Conservative chancellor.

Laws broke convention by publicly exploiting the private message an outgoing minister traditionally leaves for an incomer when a government changes after an election.


https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/commons-confidential/2023/07/liam-byrne-labour-apology-no-money-note

So, a note is traditionally left, not just the one leaked by the libdems.

I presume the outgoing tory secretary to the treasury left a bit of paper with a big black spot on it. 😉

[greenginger]

Laws broke convention by publicly exploiting the private message an outgoing minister traditionally leaves for an incomer when a government changes after an election.https://www.newstatesman.com/politics/commons-confidential/2023/07/liam-byrne-labour-apology-no-money-noteSo, a note is traditionally left, not just the one leaked by the libdems.I presume the outgoing tory secretary to the treasury left a bit of paper with a big black spot on it. 😉Notes may be traditional ,but joking about the terrible state of the country’s finances ? I don’t think so.

[grunt]

Notes may be traditional ,but joking about the terrible state of the country’s finances ? I don’t think so.Which is worse? Tanking the economy, giving multi-billion PPE deals to your pals who have no experience in providing PPE, wasting billions on Rwanda, wasting billions on Brexit, wasting hundreds of millions on videos for your Tory social media; or joking about it?

[Kato]

Notes may be traditional ,but joking about the terrible state of the country’s finances ? I don’t think so.The literal description of the note as left by past chancellors is "a traditional joke."

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[greenginger]

Which is worse? Tanking the economy, giving multi-billion PPE deals to your pals who have no experience in providing PPE, wasting billions on Rwanda, wasting billions on Brexit, wasting hundreds of millions on videos for your Tory social media; or joking about it?

I think the last labour government helped tank the world banking system and world economy

[greenginger]

Which is worse? Tanking the economy, giving multi-billion PPE deals to your pals who have no experience in providing PPE, wasting billions on Rwanda, wasting billions on Brexit, wasting hundreds of millions on videos for your Tory social media; or joking about it?

I think the last labour government helped tank the world banking system and world economy

[marinello59]

I think the last labour government helped tank the world banking system and world economy

More down to the American sub-prime mortgage crash than anything Labour did wrong.

[Moulin Yarns]

I think the last labour government helped tank the world banking system and world economy

Doesn't matter if you repeat your post, you are wrong. The 2008 financial crisis had nothing to do with the labour government of the time, but, as an intelligent person you already know that.


Back to the notes, any ideas what the Tory Chancellor left for reeves? I'm still going for the black spot (blind pew would be proud)

[Stairway 2 7]

More down to the American sub-prime mortgage crash than anything Labour did wrong.

Yeah if anything Labour saved the banks which I probably disagree with.

The Big Short with Steve Carell, Christian Bale and Brad Pitt is a tremendous film that shows how shocking these sub prime deals were and how it collapsed the stock exchange.

[Stairway 2 7]

Doesn't matter if you repeat your post, you are wrong. The 2008 financial crisis had nothing to do with the labour government of the time, but, as an intelligent person you already know that.


Back to the notes, any ideas what the Tory Chancellor left for reeves? I'm still going for the black spot (blind pew would be proud)

Yeah that's the correct point rather than is it OK to joke. Labour left a note saying the money is tight. Tories hid from everyone what they were doing including the OBR, so as you say no truth would be in any letter but perhaps a black hole

[jamie_1875]

Yeah if anything Labour saved the banks which I probably disagree with.

The Big Short with Steve Carell, Christian Bale and Brad Pitt is a tremendous film that shows how shocking these sub prime deals were and how it collapsed the stock exchange.

There would have been chaos if the UK banks had failed. Imagine finding out you never got paid into your RBS or Bank of Scotland account and you had no money, imagine going to the cash machine and it not working or logging on to your account and getting an error message. They did what they had to do. RBS was 20 minutes away from closing down the cash machines.

[Keith_M]

I think the last labour government helped tank the world banking system and world economy I'm no fan of Labour but that's really not true.

The whole world went through a slump, mainly because of US capitalism at it's worst.

[The Tubs]

I'm no fan of Labour but that's really not true. The whole world went through a slump, mainly because of US capitalism at it's worst. While this is generally true, countries with stricter banking regulation, like Brazil, only suffered from knock-on effects from a fall on global demand but there was little risk in their banking systems, I think.

[Bostonhibby]

Which is worse? Tanking the economy, giving multi-billion PPE deals to your pals who have no experience in providing PPE, wasting billions on Rwanda, wasting billions on Brexit, wasting hundreds of millions on videos for your Tory social media; or joking about it?Better not to smirk at the proles who are funding it all, just quietly syphon their tax money away down lord Deighton's covid fast track whilst people are dying.

I much prefer a humorous post it note joke that cost us nothing at the end than the last great snout in the trough event for the select few that cost us money and lives.

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[grunt]

May 2024. https://x.com/DanielJMath1/status/1818265356365938792

[Ozyhibby]

While this is generally true, countries with stricter banking regulation, like Brazil, only suffered from knock-on effects from a fall on global demand but there was little risk in their banking systems, I think.

And Australia. Proper banking regulation was absent in Britain.
And the response may have been necessary but Brown made sure that the bankers were well looked after as well. There was no let up to their bonuses. Nobody was ever charged with anything unlike places like Iceland. Lots of money was shovelled from poor tax payers into the pockets of the very rich. They were buying brand new Mercs with a £2000 subsidy from a Labour govt.


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[Stairway 2 7]

There would have been chaos if the UK banks had failed. Imagine finding out you never got paid into your RBS or Bank of Scotland account and you had no money, imagine going to the cash machine and it not working or logging on to your account and getting an error message. They did what they had to do. RBS was 20 minutes away from closing down the cash machines.

It was a private company it should be able to fail like all others. The customers money would have been protected, in the US all the lehmann brothers customers got their money back and joined another bank.

Rbs had tons of junk and sub prime and we bought it all. The bankers done alright, the public got an austerity that was estimated to have cost 300k British lives.

[Stairway 2 7]

And Australia. Proper banking regulation was absent in Britain.
And the response may have been necessary but Brown made sure that the bankers were well looked after as well. There was no let up to their bonuses. Nobody was ever charged with anything unlike places like Iceland. Lots of money was shovelled from poor tax payers into the pockets of the very rich. They were buying brand new Mercs with a £2000 subsidy from a Labour govt.


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Yes there was a couple of obvious fall guys like Fred but there should have been hundreds of prosecutions and Labour wasn't interested. Public debt is larger now, we're back to where we started with barely a lesson learned. How could bankers crash a company and then keep making obscene wages when publicly owned

[Jack]

If I recall correctly the banking crash was where Richy Sunak started making his multi millions.

[Bostonhibby]

If I recall correctly the banking crash was where Richy Sunak started making his multi millions.Indeed, just like when Kwakers and Dim Lizzie set the markets up for Kwakers former employers and friends to fill their boots by betting against the economy Dim Lizzie created for that very short but very profitable spell she led the nasties

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[Moulin Yarns]

Funny how the Tory apologists have disappeared now the truth is out 😁

[Ozyhibby]

https://ifs.org.uk/articles/ifs-response-rachel-reeves-spending-audit
Not all a surprise.


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[degenerated]

Tell that to all the OAPs who aren't on benefits who are going to lose their winter fuel allowance.
Something else then Scottish government will be expected to mitigate, you can bet your bottom dollar that Scotch Labour try to play politics with that one.Sarwar is nothing if not predictable.
28063

[JimBHibees]

Sarwar is nothing if not predictable.
28063

Taking the pee big time with that. Wow

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyx5x44vnyeo?at_link_type=web_link&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_format=link&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_campaign_type=owned&at_link_id=3652AACA-5093-11EF-B681-9417F217C3FF&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_medium=social
I know cuts are being made but this does not feel like the sort of thing we should be cutting. And it’s a big loss for Edinburgh.


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[JimBHibees]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyx5x44vnyeo?at_link_type=web_link&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_format=link&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_campaign_type=owned&at_link_id=3652AACA-5093-11EF-B681-9417F217C3FF&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_medium=social
I know cuts are being made but this does not feel like the sort of thing we should be cutting. And it’s a big loss for Edinburgh.


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Yep not great. Assume Anas sees it as a possible opportunity

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cyx5x44vnyeo?at_link_type=web_link&at_campaign=Social_Flow&at_format=link&at_link_origin=BBCScotlandNews&at_bbc_team=editorial&at_campaign_type=owned&at_link_id=3652AACA-5093-11EF-B681-9417F217C3FF&at_ptr_name=twitter&at_medium=social
I know cuts are being made but this does not feel like the sort of thing we should be cutting. And it’s a big loss for Edinburgh.


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Seems it was not budgeted for.

"The Department for Science, Innovation and Technology (DSIT) said the money was promised by the previous administration but was never allocated in its budget"

Think most would have this not funded if it meant cuts elsewhere, although I'd raise tax to fund it seems an important area if we're not to be left behind

[grunt]

"The Department for Science, Innovation and Technology (DSIT) said the money was promised by the previous administration but was never allocated in its budget"
The lying Tories should never ever be in power in the UK again.

[Stairway 2 7]

The lying Tories should never ever be in power in the UK again.

Thing is each revelation is coming out recently and its knocking the last one of the news and nothing is getting done. Labour doesn't seem to care and the Tory press do the minimum reporting.

[marinello59]

Sarwar is nothing if not predictable.
28063

He's not criticising the Scottish Government in any way there so I'm not sure that he charge of merely playing politics sticks on that one. There is an opportunity here for the Scottish Government to target resources towards those who genuinely need it rather than providing a cosy middle class subsidy to those who don't.
My main gripe with what the UK Government has done is the cliff edge they have set, restricting it to those who receive pension credits will see some slip through the safety net this benefit should be providing. Devolution provides an opportunity to do something different our side of the border. Sarwar has recognised that and has proposed working with the Government in order to try and rectify that. Swinney has said he would be more open to working with the opposition from now on and given the arithmetic at Holyrood he will have to so fingers crossed. (I know, I'm a dreamer.:greengrin)
If the Scottish Government themselves aren't thinking along similar lines then they aren't doing their job. I'm pretty sure Forbes will already being looking at what can be done for our pensioners.

[degenerated]

He's not criticising the Scottish Government in any way there so I'm not sure that he charge of merely playing politics sticks on that one. There is an opportunity here for the Scottish Government to target resources towards those who genuinely need it rather than providing a cosy middle class subsidy to those who don't.
My main gripe with what the UK Government has done is the cliff edge they have set, restricting it to those who receive pension credits will see some slip through the safety net this benefit should be providing. Devolution provides an opportunity to do something different our side of the border. Sarwar has recognised that and has proposed working with the Government in order to try and rectify that. Swinney has said he would be more open to working with the opposition from now on and given the arithmetic at Holyrood he will have to so fingers crossed. (I know, I'm a dreamer.:greengrin)
If the Scottish Government themselves aren't thinking along similar lines then they aren't doing their job. I'm pretty sure Forbes will already being looking at what can be done for our pensioners.I don't disagree that the Scottish Government will have to be looking at how they deal with this but you know as well as I do that this is nothing but cheap politicking from Sarwar.

[Kato]

The lying Tories should never ever be in power in the UK again.They did a great job last time, (in teeing up fascism).

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[marinello59]

I don't disagree that the Scottish Government will have to be looking at how they deal with this but you know as well as I do that this is nothing but cheap politicking from Sarwar.

That’s your opinion. I won’t say there’s not a wee bit of political mischief making going on but he is an opposition leader at Holyrood, it’s sort of his job.
I won’t dismiss any politician who I think are saying the right things no matter which party they represent. Sarwar has brought up some interesting points there about the merits or otherwise of universal benefits. It’s a debate that has to be held, it’s long overdue. In this case I don’t see it as cheap politicking, whatever that actually means.

[Hibs4185]

Just seen a great post. Starmer is cutting a lot of projects that cost money.

Seemingly Scotland gets more money per person and has a massive budget deficit.

Will Starmer cut Scotland loose???

[Jack]

Just seen a great post. Starmer is cutting a lot of projects that cost money.

Seemingly Scotland gets more money per person and has a massive budget deficit.

Will Starmer cut Scotland loose???

Fingers crossed 🤞

[lapsedhibee]

Just seen a great post. Starmer is cutting a lot of projects that cost money.

Seemingly Scotland gets more money per person and has a massive budget deficit.

Will Starmer cut Scotland loose???

No. Natural resources.

[Stairway 2 7]

Pretty interesting breakdown of all the different tax increases Reeves could use in the budget. I'd go for £3 bil for fuel duty but that is unpopular. Surprised how little you get for raising the top tax bracket from 45 to 50, under £1 bil. Pension tax relief 3-15 billion depending on the rate used actually distributes wealth from the well off much more

https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/08/01/rachel-reeves-raise-22bn-of-tax/

[wookie70]

Pretty interesting breakdown of all the different tax increases Reeves could use in the budget. I'd go for £3 bil for fuel duty but that is unpopular. Surprised how little you get for raising the top tax bracket from 45 to 50, under £1 bil. Pension tax relief 3-15 billion depending on the rate used actually distributes wealth from the well off much more

https://taxpolicy.org.uk/2024/08/01/rachel-reeves-raise-22bn-of-tax/ I'd have pension tax as my first claw back, fuel duty next. I would look at a two tier Vat system that we saw when it was introduced and try and take anything that is a necessary purchase out of VAT or at a far lower rate. Balance that with the difference in loss being added to the higher rate. I think they were foolish to say NI would not be touched. That was clearly an election bribe by the Tories. Given growth is stronger they could start slow and hope growth pays the bills. That was their plan in the manifesto was it not

[cabbageandribs1875]

oooooooohh

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GVdEhEdWcAA0Bz2?format=jpg&name=large

[Kato]

oooooooohh

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GVdEhEdWcAA0Bz2?format=jpg&name=largeHeads will be exploding with utter rage. Chances of a Daily Mail headline including the word "fury" not worth betting on.

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[grunt]

https://x.com/ScotNational/status/1826526469704573266

Anas Sarwar has been called out for making a “misleading” claim about Brazil recently granting special protected status to Scotch whisky.

He said it was proof of Labour "delivering for Scotland" but the decision was actually made in June, before the General Election ...

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/ed_miliband/status/1826867181943947352?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Labour putting the energy prices up again. What happened to GB energy? Wasn’t that supposed to be ready to go on day 1?


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[marinello59]

https://x.com/ed_miliband/status/1826867181943947352?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Labour putting the energy prices up again. What happened to GB energy? Wasn’t that supposed to be ready to go on day 1?


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At no point was it ever suggested that GB energy would be ready to go on day one.

I still can’t work out what it actually is. I’m expecting the headquarters to be a mailbox in Aberdeen and not much more. Vague promises are pretty worthless.

[jamie_1875]

https://x.com/ed_miliband/status/1826867181943947352?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Labour putting the energy prices up again. What happened to GB energy? Wasn’t that supposed to be ready to go on day 1?


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Aren't energy prices and caps controlled by OFGEM?

[GlesgaeHibby]

At no point was it ever suggested that GB energy would be ready to go on day one.

I still can’t work out what it actually is. I’m expecting the headquarters to be a mailbox in Aberdeen and not much more. Vague promises are pretty worthless.

They've started advertising for jobs on Linkedin - looking for an Energy Project Development Lead with experience of pre-development and development lifecycle (wind and solar) as well as of corporate financing structures but only willing to pay £53k.

[Moulin Yarns]

They've started advertising for jobs on Linkedin - looking for an Energy Project Development Lead with experience of pre-development and development lifecycle (wind and solar) as well as of corporate financing structures but only willing to pay £53k.

I can tell them when the wind blows for £53k.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/ed_miliband/status/1826867181943947352?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Labour putting the energy prices up again. What happened to GB energy? Wasn’t that supposed to be ready to go on day 1?


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Labour putting the prices up. If your going with that line then you have to say tories did great keeping them low for a decade before Ukraine or tories cut prices the last two years. Of course like inflation the government doesn't put prices up and down but they still stupidly try to take credit when it lowers.

Ofgem sets the price for the energy companies who set the price on worldwide markets. France is one of the few countries that didn't see rises because it bet heavily on nuclear and nationalising the companies. Labour and tories sold off our energy companies and gas and oil rights for profit. Tories Labour and SNP sold off our renewable profits for a pittance also. Renewables should have been our way to cheaper energy but we sold the rights to oil and gas companies who own most of our windfarms.

It's a shame Common Weal are working with the Welsh government after getting ignored by ours. Public renewable energy is the way forward
https://commonweal.scot/the-welsh-way-forward-part-2/

How we privatised our renewables is a depressing read
https://commonweal.scot/policies/scotwind-privatising-scotlands-future-again/

[Stairway 2 7]

They've started advertising for jobs on Linkedin - looking for an Energy Project Development Lead with experience of pre-development and development lifecycle (wind and solar) as well as of corporate financing structures but only willing to pay £53k.

And a £160,000 co-director to look after emissions trading and decarbonisation

[grunt]

Labour putting the prices up. If your going with that line then you have to say tories did great keeping them low for a decade before Ukraine or tories cut prices the last two years. Of course like inflation the government doesn't put prices up and down but they still stupidly try to take credit when it lowers.

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GVppB-jXcAAt6E1?format=jpg&name=large

[grunt]

At no point was it ever suggested that GB energy would be ready to go on day one.
You can see why people are confused. "What I want them to do on Day 1 is [for the plans] to be implemented".

https://x.com/msm_monitor/status/1815113068910915929

[marinello59]

You can see why people are confused. "What I want them to do on Day 1 is [for the plans] to be implemented".

https://x.com/msm_monitor/status/1815113068910915929

He's playing fast and loose with the definition of implemented there to say the least. :greengrin

I vaguely remember this at the time and what I took from it was that the Bill to create GB energy would be in place ASAP. Suggesting that a company would be fully formed, manned and ready on day one would have been ridiculous and no reasonable person would expect it to be.

As an aside Twitter is full of twenty second clips like this taken out of context to make meaningless points. I'd love to see a mass boycott of Musk's cesspit.

[Moulin Yarns]

He's playing fast and loose with the definition of implemented there to say the least. :greengrin

I vaguely remember this at the time and what I took from it was that the Bill to create GB energy would be in place ASAP. Suggesting that a company would be fully formed, manned and ready on day one would have been ridiculous and no reasonable person would expect it to be.

As an aside Twitter is full of twenty second clips like this taken out of context to make meaningless points. I'd love to see a mass boycott of Musk's cesspit.

I've come off twitter and use threads instead and there's a lot of people saying they have done that.

[grunt]

As an aside Twitter is full of twenty second clips like this taken out of context to make meaningless points. I'd love to see a mass boycott of Musk's cesspit.
This clip was neither out of context nor was it making a meaningless point. Hope this helps.

[Stairway 2 7]

This clip was neither out of context nor was it making a meaningless point. Hope this helps.

You said its confusing. No one with a few braincells thought UK energy would be ready to go on day one. I don't believe it will be ready in 12 months mind you and the can be criticised if they miss that target

[marinello59]

This clip was neither out of context nor was it making a meaningless point. Hope this helps.

Did you truly believe that on day one of a Labour Government GB energy would emerge fully formed, manned and open for business? Would any reasonable person think that? One comment from hundreds made but if it produces a slogan that can fit on a tee shirt then I guess it has meaning for some.

Don't think for a second I'm defending GB energy. It's still not been fully explained. Milliband's involvement gives me hope that something genuinely useful will eventually emerge but I'm not so sure Starmer knows himself what the plans are. If he does he hasn't communicated them very well at all.

[JimBHibees]

Assuming Labour are going to windfall tax the energy companies

[Stairway 2 7]

Assuming Labour are going to windfall tax the energy companies

They have already, were yet to see any of the 100k job losses Stephen Flynn said it would cause

[Andy Bee]

Did you truly believe that on day one of a Labour Government GB energy would emerge fully formed, manned and open for business? Would any reasonable person think that? One comment from hundreds made but if it produces a slogan that can fit on a tee shirt then I guess it has meaning for some.

Don't think for a second I'm defending GB energy. It's still not been fully explained. Milliband's involvement gives me hope that something genuinely useful will eventually emerge but I'm not so sure Starmer knows himself what the plans are. If he does he hasn't communicated them very well at all.

Ed seems to be off to a good start....https://x.com/Bounce_BackLoan/status/1826897610600227016

[Stairway 2 7]

Labour gain Armadale and Blackridge in council by-election. What's worrying is look at reforms figures. I think they are going to get a good number of seats in 2 years. Don't know how that will effect who forms a government as I'm sure no party will work with them

@electpoliticsuk
Armadale and Blackridge Ward (West Lothian) council by-election:

LAB: 28.9% (+14.8)
SNP: 28.3% (+6.2)
REF: 18.9% (NEW)
ISP: 8.6% (+7.8)
CON: 8.2% (-2.3)
LDM: 4.4% (+3.5)
GRN 2.7%, (+0.1)

[SHODAN]

Remember when household energy was like £50 a month? £100 at most?

They'll never give that back unless it's taken from them via nationalisation.

[SHODAN]

Labour gain Armadale and Blackridge in council by-election. What's worrying is look at reforms figures. I think they are going to get a good number of seats in 2 years. Don't know how that will effect who forms a government as I'm sure no party will work with them

@electpoliticsuk
Armadale and Blackridge Ward (West Lothian) council by-election:

LAB: 28.9% (+14.8)
SNP: 28.3% (+6.2)
REF: 18.9% (NEW)
ISP: 8.6% (+7.8)
CON: 8.2% (-2.3)
LDM: 4.4% (+3.5)
GRN 2.7%, (+0.1)

If Reform are the kingmaker Labour will gladly take their support if the alternative is an SNP-Green government.

[Moulin Yarns]

Labour gain Armadale and Blackridge in council by-election. What's worrying is look at reforms figures. I think they are going to get a good number of seats in 2 years. Don't know how that will effect who forms a government as I'm sure no party will work with them

@electpoliticsuk
Armadale and Blackridge Ward (West Lothian) council by-election:

LAB: 28.9% (+14.8)
SNP: 28.3% (+6.2)
REF: 18.9% (NEW)
ISP: 8.6% (+7.8)
CON: 8.2% (-2.3)
LDM: 4.4% (+3.5)
GRN 2.7%, (+0.1)

I'm trying to make sense of those figures, how have they all increased their votes??

[Stairway 2 7]

If Reform are the kingmaker Labour will gladly take their support if the alternative is an SNP-Green government.

I'd put that close to 0% chance. I don't think Scottish tories would even go in a coalition with them.

[Stairway 2 7]

I'm trying to make sense of those figures, how have they all increased their votes??

An independent won last time on 48%

[Moulin Yarns]

An independent won last time on 48%

Cheers

[Andy Bee]

I'm trying to make sense of those figures, how have they all increased their votes??

Stuart Borrowman former SNP and changed to Independent, the councillor whos sudden death triggered the election, won in 2022 with 2571 votes. The Labour councillor who won this election done it with 795 votes to SNPs 777. Reform grabbed 519 votes mainly in Blackridge and the turnout was a measly 20.7% which is down 19.7% from 2022. ISP grabbed more votes than the Tories, Lib Dems and Greens which is a positive.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1563067579119329280?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Another tweet that we were not meant to actually believe. [emoji849]


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[McD]

I'm trying to make sense of those figures, how have they all increased their votes??


That was what I was wondering looking at the numbers too

[McD]

An independent won last time on 48%


Stuart Borrowman former SNP and changed to Independent, the councillor whos sudden death triggered the election, won in 2022 with 2571 votes. The Labour councillor who won this election done it with 795 votes to SNPs 777. Reform grabbed 519 votes mainly in Blackridge and the turnout was a measly 20.7% which is down 19.7% from 2022. Independent for Independence grabbed more votes than the Tories, Lib Dems and Greens which is a positive.



Thanks :aok:

[JimBHibees]

They have already, were yet to see any of the 100k job losses Stephen Flynn said it would cause

Well they need to do it again

[grunt]

You said its confusing. No one with a few braincells thought UK energy would be ready to go on day one. I don't believe it will be ready in 12 months mind you and the can be criticised if they miss that target


Did you truly believe that on day one of a Labour Government GB energy would emerge fully formed, manned and open for business? Would any reasonable person think that? One comment from hundreds made but if it produces a slogan that can fit on a tee shirt then I guess it has meaning for some.

Don't think for a second I'm defending GB energy. It's still not been fully explained. Milliband's involvement gives me hope that something genuinely useful will eventually emerge but I'm not so sure Starmer knows himself what the plans are. If he does he hasn't communicated them very well at all.
Ok, it seems today is my turn to be attacked on here. Starmer spoke - many times - about Day One, and what he would do on Day One. It is his fault that people have picked up on those words and questioned him about them. And you're right to be confused - the poor communication from Labour about just exactly what GB Energy would be was - still is - hugely vague. It is all very disappointing.

[grunt]

https://x.com/keir_starmer/status/1563067579119329280?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Another tweet that we were not meant to actually believe. [emoji849]
Starmer going back on his word? Shirley knot.