The future of the Labour Party

[cabbageandribs1875]

oh dear

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/470143500_8233472490086752_21300934924073280_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=nDWtqFoY13sQ7kNvgHUc7zD&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=AhEKZlFbE-u6dr0alVkF-qQ&oh=00_AYBWzM3FI4aSmErSCsjMnmCWxwd6OQUli9vnbT6u7RAv rw&oe=67654F5F

[Ozyhibby]

https://bsky.app/profile/lewisgoodall.com/post/3ldgfi32itc26

Reeves budget really starting to hit the economy hard now.


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[CropleyWasGod]

https://bsky.app/profile/lewisgoodall.com/post/3ldgfi32itc26

Reeves budget really starting to hit the economy hard now.


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I'm always a bit sceptical about these things.

For one thing, the rise in NIC hasn't actually happened yet. For another, and this has been my experience under Governments of all shades, struggling employers will always try to find an excuse to "reduce headcount" (in the 1980's it was "trim the fat", the 90's "rationalise and restructure"), and blame the Government..... even when it's not their fault.

I'd be more interested in knowing the real reasons behind the numbers.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm always a bit sceptical about these things.

For one thing, the rise in NIC hasn't actually happened yet. For another, and this has been my experience under Governments of all shades, struggling employers will always try to find an excuse to "reduce headcount" (in the 1980's it was "trim the fat", the 90's "rationalise and restructure"), and blame the Government..... even when it's not their fault.

I'd be more interested in knowing the real reasons behind the numbers.

What is not in dispute is the numbers are falling. And adding a tax on employment when it is falling is maybe not the best idea?


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/dec/16/chinese-spy-keir-starmer-prince-andrew-uk-politics-latest-news?page=with:block-67601d0d8f0886a1630309f4#block-67601d0d8f0886a1630309f4

Starmer least popular after 5 months except Truss.


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2024/dec/16/chinese-spy-keir-starmer-prince-andrew-uk-politics-latest-news?page=with:block-67601d0d8f0886a1630309f4#block-67601d0d8f0886a1630309f4

Starmer least popular after 5 months except Truss.


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The people hate tax rises. They will be in trouble if they need to do more than a couple of more budgets with major rises. The election is obviously 5 years away so things will change but the press will be against them. People prefer austerity than paying more tax.

I saw a poll and a huge percentage of Britons were against about a dozen different tax rise mechanisms available. They then polled the same people and a majority wanted more spending for a dozen different areas like education, NHS policing ect.

We need a party that can deliver low low taxes and massive spending. If all else fails blame the immigrants

[Ozyhibby]

The people hate tax rises. They will be in trouble if they need to do more than a couple of more budgets with major rises. The election is obviously 5 years away so things will change but the press will be against them. People prefer austerity than paying more tax.

I saw a poll and a huge percentage of Britons were against about a dozen different tax rise mechanisms available. They then polled the same people and a majority wanted more spending for a dozen different areas like education, NHS policing ect.

We need a party that can deliver low low taxes and massive spending. If all else fails blame the immigrants

I think we are currently taxed more than we have ever been. I think a bit more leeway would be given if they had announced a serious program of reform of public services but so far we have had very little? So we have high tax/poor public services combination.


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[Smartie]

I think we are currently taxed more than we have ever been. I think a bit more leeway would be given if they had announced a serious program of reform of public services but so far we have had very little? So we have high tax/poor public services combination.


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The last Tory government had to cope with the effects of Covid, the Ukraine war, the global inflation situation and Brexit. They put taxes up to levels that they wouldn't normally, through necessity.

It hasn't really given Labour anywhere to go re tax and spend.

Hopefully this has all been part of the downward part of a cycle but there's a chance that "this is it" now. We have an ageing population and our current older generations (with stuff like final salary pensions) are going to cost an awful lot to look after for an awful long time.

I don't really see a solution other than everyone accepting they have to have a bit less - but that's not a popular message. It can easily be overcome with false promises, false economics and good old immigrant baiting.

[Jack]

What is not in dispute is the numbers are falling. And adding a tax on employment when it is falling is maybe not the best idea?


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I think the obvious thing about getting as much of the bad stuff out the way as possible early doors is that at the next election most of the stupid electorate will have forgotten how bad it was.

[Ozyhibby]

The last Tory government had to cope with the effects of Covid, the Ukraine war, the global inflation situation and Brexit. They put taxes up to levels that they wouldn't normally, through necessity.

It hasn't really given Labour anywhere to go re tax and spend.

Hopefully this has all been part of the downward part of a cycle but there's a chance that "this is it" now. We have an ageing population and our current older generations (with stuff like final salary pensions) are going to cost an awful lot to look after for an awful long time.

I don't really see a solution other than everyone accepting they have to have a bit less - but that's not a popular message. It can easily be overcome with false promises, false economics and good old immigrant baiting.

A dream for Farage.


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[Andy Bee]

I think the obvious thing about getting as much of the bad stuff out the way as possible early doors is that at the next election most of the stupid electorate will have forgotten how bad it was.

The problem with that is that the budget was front loaded, 4.3% to 2.4% next year and down to 1.3% extra spending after next year to the end of the term is pencilled in. No significant growth and we're looking at more tax rises of some kind if they stick to fiscal policy. Inflation alone is 2% so that's the minimum extra spend needed, 4% is needed for the NHS just to tick over as there's an NHS tax i.e. everything doubles in price if it's the NHS. Unprotected services are taking a hit right now and it'll only get worse. Jeremy Corbyn is apparently forming a new party it'll be interesting to see where that goes.

[grunt]

The last Tory government had to cope with the effects of Covid, the Ukraine war, the global inflation situation and Brexit. They put taxes up to levels that they wouldn't normally, through necessity.
The lying Tories did not HAVE to cope with Brexit. They could, they should have said after the referendum that it was an interesting vote, very close, but that it would be absolute madness to take the UK out of the EU. They should have led the country to do what was best for the UK, rather than acquiesce to Brexiter fantasies. That's what they should have done. But they didn't. And we're now paying for it. Nobodies fault but their own. *******s.

[Ozyhibby]

The lying Tories did not HAVE to cope with Brexit. They could, they should have said after the referendum that it was an interesting vote, very close, but that it would be absolute madness to take the UK out of the EU. They should have led the country to do what was best for the UK, rather than acquiesce to Brexiter fantasies. That's what they should have done. But they didn't. And we're now paying for it. Nobodies fault but their own. *******s.

All well and good but now it’s Labour refusing to discuss Brexit. If there is no economic growth while we stay outside the EU then it’s Labour who are harming us, not the Tories.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

merry xmas Sir Keir :agree:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mQrvmY5s2mo



No1 in the official Big Top 40 chart Song lampooning Keir Starmer over winter fuel cuts hits number one | The National (https://www.thenational.scot/news/24798711.song-lampooning-keir-starmer-winter-fuel-cuts-hits-number-one/?fbclid=IwY2xjawHNVsBleHRuA2FlbQIxMAABHfwyriOhtOMo JGj7W-33npKvBaid1H228QBKIPyMZ6rY5bi5fV291YNL-Q_aem_zXmSFtHkBVHZ_9_8OHaCKg)
i'm not up to date on chart lists so i'm not sure why the official top 40 chart is different to the official chart list, but anyway....

[Smartie]

The lying Tories did not HAVE to cope with Brexit. They could, they should have said after the referendum that it was an interesting vote, very close, but that it would be absolute madness to take the UK out of the EU. They should have led the country to do what was best for the UK, rather than acquiesce to Brexiter fantasies. That's what they should have done. But they didn't. And we're now paying for it. Nobodies fault but their own. *******s.

I wouldn't disagree with a word of this.

All I'd say is that it was an economic shock alongside the others, albeit one that was entirely unnecessary and self-inflicted, and should be acknowledged when we're figuring our why we're in the mess we're now in.

TBH it's probably a fairly salient point - that we need to be careful, as popular proposed solutions can also be incredibly harmful.

[Stairway 2 7]

All well and good but now it’s Labour refusing to discuss Brexit. If there is no economic growth while we stay outside the EU then it’s Labour who are harming us, not the Tories.


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Do you think Labour will win the next election if they try to end brexit or propose a referendum. They have a zero percent chance with a growing reform in my opinion. You can't change anything if your not in power so they shouldn't ask for a referendum they should chip away at what they can. They can't get much because free movement will bring in the far right to the UK

[Ozyhibby]

Do you think Labour will win the next election if they try to end brexit or propose a referendum. They have a zero percent chance with a growing reform in my opinion. You can't change anything if your not in power so they shouldn't ask for a referendum they should chip away at what they can. They can't get much because free movement will bring in the far right to the UK

They could have a referendum and win it and be back in before we get close to another election.


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[lapsedhibee]

I don't really see a solution other than everyone accepting they have to have a bit less - but that's not a popular message. It can easily be overcome with false promises, false economics and good old immigrant baiting.

:agree: Or a lot less.

[Ozyhibby]

I think they will undermine it and undo it in every single way possible short of having a referendum and a bold statement saying we're rejoining ie trade, movement of people, defence will become easier and more integrated all the time.

A bit like stealth taxes. Do what they want to do without having to take the bad press and impediments that go with explicitly telling people what they're going to do.

FWIW I have no problem with this.

I don’t think they are doing any of that.


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[Smartie]

I don’t think they are doing any of that.


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Early days yet. It's in their interests to find a fudge though.

The defence stuff - I think they (we) are definitely heavily involved in the EU / Nato post USA era planning.

[Ozyhibby]

Early days yet. It's in their interests to find a fudge though.

The defence stuff - I think they (we) are definitely heavily involved in the EU / Nato post USA era planning.

We are almost 6 months in and we are not really seeing much action on any front?
I understood why they didn’t say much before getting elected but it now looks like it was because they didn’t have a plan for anything?


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/dec/17/labour-keir-starmer-low-carbon-energy-prison-reforms-housebuilding?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky&CMP=bsky_gu

Don’t think I’ve ever seen the word ‘if’ so many times in one article.


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[Colr]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2024/dec/17/labour-keir-starmer-low-carbon-energy-prison-reforms-housebuilding?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky&CMP=bsky_gu

Don’t think I’ve ever seen the word ‘if’ so many times in one article.


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Labour’s comms are f%@*ing hopeless.

[Ozyhibby]

Labour’s comms are f%@*ing hopeless.

They are obviously trying to push this narrative today with their favoured journos. Ian Dunt has a similar article out as well telling us how radical they are being.
Sorry, just don’t see it.[emoji2369]


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[Ozyhibby]

https://bsky.app/profile/jessicaelgot.bsky.social/post/3ldix5ha7pk22

Waspi women to get zero compensation.


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[Andy Bee]

https://bsky.app/profile/jessicaelgot.bsky.social/post/3ldix5ha7pk22

Waspi women to get zero compensation.


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Ouch, this is going to hit them bad, very bad.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://bsky.app/profile/jessicaelgot.bsky.social/post/3ldix5ha7pk22

Waspi women to get zero compensation.


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Labour trying hard to lose the elections.

[Ozyhibby]

Ouch, this is going to hit them bad, very bad.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241217/f1992d6a12bb1928364c4592d7729374.jpg

He tells lies on a par with Boris Johnson.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Correct decision. The pension age for females matching men was literally announced in the budget in 1993 it went up by 1 year 17 years later. It was all over the news for decades no way people didn't know. Women wanted equality, correctly.

[Andy Bee]

Correct decision. The pension age for females matching men was literally announced in the budget in 1993 it went up by 1 year 17 years later. It was all over the news for decades no way people didn't know. Women wanted equality, correctly.

Angela doesn't agree.

https://x.com/msm_monitor/status/1772020453537726598

[Stairway 2 7]

Angela doesn't agree.

https://x.com/msm_monitor/status/1772020453537726598

Angela has been wrong about most things over the last decade she's a Starmerite, good to see she is consistent. All the labour politicians who backed during opposition were playing the most obvious and pathetic thing an opposition can do, oppose things just to hit out at the current parliament.

My mum was effected she obviously didn't want to work more years but knew about the changes well over a decade before coming in so doesn't feel entitled to anything.

[Ozyhibby]

Correct decision. The pension age for females matching men was literally announced in the budget in 1993 it went up by 1 year 17 years later. It was all over the news for decades no way people didn't know. Women wanted equality, correctly.

It’s handy that this is the only equality they are getting. Wages still well behind males.


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[Ozyhibby]

Angela doesn't agree.

https://x.com/msm_monitor/status/1772020453537726598

Not just Angela. The govt set up an adjudication process and the ombudsman ruled they should be compensated.
Not everyone watches budget speeches.


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[Andy Bee]

Not just Angela. The govt set up an adjudication process and the ombudsman ruled they should be compensated.
Not everyone watches budget speeches.


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Yup. They also stated that previous Government incompetence shouldn't be an excuse not to pay it. All I'm hearing is Tory £22bn black hole again.

[Stairway 2 7]

Not just Angela. The govt set up an adjudication process and the ombudsman ruled they should be compensated.
Not everyone watches budget speeches.


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You don't have to watch the budget to know what was in it, it was in every the paper the next months in an era when everyone read them, It was also on every stations news programs. It was also heavily publicised when it got the Queens approval two years later and still there was another 15 years before it came in.

The ombudsman said the decision to change it was correct and the timescale to change it was fine. They said they reckon 95% of people knew about the changes but they could have done more to get it up to 100%. Even if they called every person I think some would complain.

[Ozyhibby]

You don't have to watch the budget to know what was in it, it was in every the paper the next months in an era when everyone read them, It was also on every stations news programs. It was also heavily publicised when it got the Queens approval two years later and still there was another 15 years before it came in.

The ombudsman said the decision to change it was correct and the timescale to change it was fine. They said they reckon 95% of people knew about the changes but they could have done more to get it up to 100%. Even if they called every person I think some would complain.

Still, it’s accepted that the fault was with the govt and that people were at risk of losing money. They should be compensated.
When it was PPI they made the private sector refund everyone even if you knew exactly what you were buying.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Still, it’s accepted that the fault was with the govt and that people were at risk of losing money. They should be compensated.
When it was PPI they made the private sector refund everyone even if you knew exactly what you were buying.


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That was also ridiculous. People love getting money for nothing though, even if it isn't deserved, claim culture. People's taxes now to compensate people who didn't read a newspaper, watch an advert, listen to the radio adverts or watch the news for 17 years. Rewarded for being daft. It's like paying compensation for the 10% of people who didn't get vaccinated due to not taking the information that was absolutely everywhere.

Knowing the British public, I think getting the correct information to 95% of people is good going

[Ozyhibby]

That was also ridiculous. People love getting money for nothing though, even if it isn't deserved, claim culture. People's taxes now to compensate people who didn't read a newspaper, watch an advert, listen to the radio adverts or watch the news for 17 years. Rewarded for being daft. It's like paying compensation for the 10% of people who didn't get vaccinated due to not taking the information that was absolutely everywhere.

Knowing the British public, I think getting the correct information to 95% of people is good going

An injustice is an injustice. The ombudsman ruled against the govt.
Will it be ok to now not compensate the post office workers? Those affected by the blood scandal?


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[Stairway 2 7]

An injustice is an injustice. The ombudsman ruled against the govt.
Will it be ok to now not compensate the post office workers? Those affected by the blood scandal?


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Stop the bus they aren't comparable. Getting bad blood through no fault of your own has zero to do with someone choosing to deliberately not engage with society for 17 years and then complain that society hasn't engaged with you. You know how hard it would be to not see the news, read a paper, listen to the radio, watch adverts or open letters for 17 years during the 90s? Everyone knew, they just want money anyway

[Bostonhibby]

Correct decision. The pension age for females matching men was literally announced in the budget in 1993 it went up by 1 year 17 years later. It was all over the news for decades no way people didn't know. Women wanted equality, correctly.

What you say actually happened, was on all forms of media for a long time, really wasn't complicated and it didn't take long to plan to live with it whatever your, or females you knews views.

All this time later you've got a mix of media exploitation by those who were silent for the decade or so they were in power and those who never worked it out, but now think a big boy done it and ran away.

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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241217/ceb6d92f79594919c2620f7a3ea2b5d5.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241217/6208a508880812642d73b4b532cb8c1f.png
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241217/6767322f3ba6ab82e37547d7af602d70.jpg

What a lying creep Sarwar is turning out to be.


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[Ozyhibby]

Stop the bus they aren't comparable. Getting bad blood through no fault of your own has zero to do with someone choosing to deliberately not engage with society for 17 years and then complain that society hasn't engaged with you. You know how hard it would be to not see the news, read a paper, listen to the radio, watch adverts or open letters for 17 years during the 90s? Everyone knew, they just want money anyway

I think that’s a bit unfair. Not everyone engages the same way, sometimes through choice, sometime not. The govt has admitted fault and been found that way by an independent ombudsman.
‘Tough luck thicko, watch the news’ isn’t the way to treat people.


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[lapsedhibee]

‘Tough luck thicko, watch the news’ isn’t the way to treat people.


Wouldn't you also have had to be not talking, or listening, to your peers for all that time?

[Stairway 2 7]

I think that’s a bit unfair. Not everyone engages the same way, sometimes through choice, sometime not. The govt has admitted fault and been found that way by an independent ombudsman.
‘Tough luck thicko, watch the news’ isn’t the way to treat people.


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Watch the news is being disingenuous, watch the news, read any paper in the 90s, watch coronation street or eastenders (it was shown before both as both had over 10 million per show), didn't listen to the radio, read the letters sent out and missed the radio and billboard adverts.

Some of the middle class women I saw on the news complaining I don't believe for a second they didn't know well before hand. What the Waspi campaign wanted would have cost £105 billion, what cuts did they want for that to be paid for all of them to get 30k

[Andy Bee]

Not to worry, our bastion of truth, honour, integrity and warrior for social justice, our very own Scottish sentient equivalent of the USAs Statue of Liberty will ride in on her white Unicorn, clad in her golden armour and save the day, putting to sword the tyrannising three lions of Westminster.

https://x.com/msm_monitor/status/1869043619275096316


Ahh, maybe not.

[Hibs4185]

Has any independent body or the OBR actually confirmed the £22 billion black hole?

In the first few weeks Starmer was full of it saying confirmation was coming.

[Ozyhibby]

Watch the news is being disingenuous, watch the news, read any paper in the 90s, watch coronation street or eastenders (it was shown before both as both had over 10 million per show), didn't listen to the radio, read the letters sent out and missed the radio and billboard adverts.

Some of the middle class women I saw on the news complaining I don't believe for a second they didn't know well before hand. What the Waspi campaign wanted would have cost £105 billion, what cuts did they want for that to be paid for all of them to get 30k

I haven’t seen anywhere it costing £105bn?
Or the £30k figure?

Fault has been admitted and also been found by an independent body. And Labour agreed before they were elected. This is a complete betrayal.
I don’t think it’s smart politically either. There are about 3m waspi women.


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[Ozyhibby]

Has any independent body or the OBR actually confirmed the £22 billion black hole?

In the first few weeks Starmer was full of it saying confirmation was coming.

Yes, the OBR confirmed it before the election. The SNP pointed it out because it was in the OBR figures. It suited Labour to pretend not to see it.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I haven’t seen anywhere it costing £105bn?
Or the £30k figure?

Fault has been admitted and also been found by an independent body. And Labour agreed before they were elected. This is a complete betrayal.
I don’t think it’s smart politically either. There are about 3m waspi women.


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They originally wanted up to 33k and John McDonnell agreed with them when shadow Chancellor, Corbyn pledged less in his electionmanifesto at £58 billion, although it wasn't costed. I think they changed there demands to 10,500 this year. Ombudsman said between 1 and 3 thousand, which would be between £3.5 and £10.5 billion

[Andy Bee]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241217/ceb6d92f79594919c2620f7a3ea2b5d5.jpg
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241217/6208a508880812642d73b4b532cb8c1f.png
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20241217/6767322f3ba6ab82e37547d7af602d70.jpg

What a lying creep Sarwar is turning out to be.


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I wonder if Sarwar will do his usual when the head office shaft the pensioners , blame the SNP and then demand they mitigate it?

[Ozyhibby]

I wonder if Sarwar will do his usual when the head office shaft the pensioners , blame the SNP and then demand they mitigate it?

You just won’t see him for a while. It’s not like he’s that active anyway. It’s a part time gig for him.
And he knows BBC Scotland won’t bring it up with either him or Bailie.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

how sad what the British Labour party has become, including BLiS

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/470203851_4032505617026775_1091335111887335229_n.j pg?_nc_cat=101&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=bd9a62&_nc_ohc=LXgMoaH4SZ8Q7kNvgG_7tcd&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=AzmKwRkjFwLtoNK1aBSSO7x&oh=00_AYC0G7jZY-pmSq_GF4dtuJ5EtQT_NBWl3i-IbpHN-3b7sQ&oe=6767C5E5

[Paul1642]

I really can’t see the issue here and agree with Stairway that it’s just people chancing their luck at some compo. The fact that one gender was getting to claim a state pension earlier than another up until the 2000s is the thing that’s wrong here.

£10.5 billion is the figure quoted by Liz Kendall and ultimately that money out of the public purse would be the very large straw that broke the camels back in terms of our already decimated public services.

“ She also said that there was no evidence of "direct financial loss" resulting from the government's decision”.

Hard to argue with that. I’m not the biggest fan of the current government (or many previous ones for that matter) however having the backbone to do the right thing rather than the popular thing sits well with me. It’s just the hypocrisy of saying one thing in opposition then doing the opposite that stinks but nothing new there. Maybe it’s just hard to feel much sympathy when people my age will be lucky to see a state pension before our 70s.

[Ozyhibby]

I really can’t see the issue here and agree with Stairway that it’s just people chancing their luck at some compo. The fact that one gender was getting to claim a state pension earlier than another up until the 2000s is the thing that’s wrong here.

£10.5 billion is the figure quoted by Liz Kendall and ultimately that money out of the public purse would be the very large straw that broke the camels back in terms of our already decimated public services.

“ She also said that there was no evidence of "direct financial loss" resulting from the government's decision”.

Hard to argue with that. I’m not the biggest fan of the current government (or many previous ones for that matter) however having the backbone to do the right thing rather than the popular thing sits well with me. It’s just the hypocrisy of saying one thing in opposition then doing the opposite that stinks but nothing new there. Maybe it’s just hard to feel much sympathy when people my age will be lucky to see a state pension before our 70s.

Yip, everything just favours women all the time.[emoji849]
Chancing their arm? A ten year campaign run by thousands to get a few grand compensation?
Still they have equalised the pension age now so all is good. Wages will have to wait another 50 years though as that favours men.
Labour have campaigned on this issue for years. It’s a flat out betrayal.


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[jamie_1875]

Should men get compensated for having to work extra years over woman for their state pension? Why not?

[Andy Bee]

I really can’t see the issue here and agree with Stairway that it’s just people chancing their luck at some compo. The fact that one gender was getting to claim a state pension earlier than another up until the 2000s is the thing that’s wrong here.

£10.5 billion is the figure quoted by Liz Kendall and ultimately that money out of the public purse would be the very large straw that broke the camels back in terms of our already decimated public services.

“ She also said that there was no evidence of "direct financial loss" resulting from the government's decision”.

Hard to argue with that. I’m not the biggest fan of the current government (or many previous ones for that matter) however having the backbone to do the right thing rather than the popular thing sits well with me. It’s just the hypocrisy of saying one thing in opposition then doing the opposite that stinks but nothing new there. Maybe it’s just hard to feel much sympathy when people my age will be lucky to see a state pension before our 70s.

These arguments are pointless. PHSO were given the task of looking into this, they looked at all the evidence, all the facts, then declared an injustice had taken place. Labour jumped on the bandwagon and because of that garnered votes. It's a complete fitup for pensioners again who were lead to believe voting Labour would help their cause.

[jamie_1875]

I sense Labour are just getting all the bad news out now as it's years until the next General Election. Doesn't help Scottish Labour much for the 2026 elections and I am guessing Anas Sarwar is not happy with Starmer tonight (again)

People will forget about this in a few months, there will be another story. Like the riots in the summer, nobody talks about them now.

[Andy Bee]

I don't watch much if any TV these days, anger management issue but I chose to watch ITV News tonight. Robert Peston stating that Labour will not be happy until a "demand for all puppies and kittens to be drowned is carried out" is got to be up with one of the most surreal moments I've ever encountered.

[Smartie]

I sense Labour are just getting all the bad news out now as it's years until the next General Election. Doesn't help Scottish Labour much for the 2026 elections and I am guessing Anas Sarwar is not happy with Starmer tonight (again)

People will forget about this in a few months, there will be another story. Like the riots in the summer, nobody talks about them now.

I’d be surprised if the women involved will forget about it in a hurry, I’d be even more surprised if they were in much of a mood to forgive - even in a few years’ time.

Ducking out of paying up will have benefits for Labour but they won’t get away with it consequence free.


And the people in cold prison cells tonight for actions they committed during the summer riots will probably still have those riots very much on their minds.

[jamie_1875]

I’d be surprised if the women involved will forget about it in a hurry, I’d be even more surprised if they were in much of a mood to forgive - even in a few years’ time.

Ducking out of paying up will have benefits for Labour but they won’t get away with it consequence free.


And the people in cold prison cells tonight for actions they committed during the summer riots will probably still have those riots very much on their minds.

I meant the general public and media coverage. I would be surprised if the Waspi story is still a story in the New Year. Harsh, but true.

[grunt]

I don't watch much if any TV these days, anger management issue but I chose to watch ITV News tonight. Robert Peston stating that Labour will not be happy until a "demand for all puppies and kittens to be drowned is carried out" is got to be up with one of the most surreal moments I've ever encountered.
:confused:

[Ozyhibby]

Inflation up again.[emoji106]


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[Stairway 2 7]

Inflation up again.[emoji106]


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To the expected level though, I think it'll undershoot the target in spring. Real wage growth for the last 3 months higher than expected at 5.2% so well above inflation. I think that will make it a certainly the BOE doesn't lower the rates until the next meeting. Wages have now been growing above inflation for 18 months. It won't be felt due to just how high inflation went for those few years

[Smartie]

I meant the general public and media coverage. I would be surprised if the Waspi story is still a story in the New Year. Harsh, but true.

Depends really on whether the women concerned are prepared to let it lie or whether they end up determined to make their presences felt.

Let’s face it - the UK media aren’t exactly going to pass up an opportunity that leads to giving Labour a repeated kicking.

[Smartie]

To the expected level though, I think it'll undershoot the target in spring. Real wage growth for the last 3 months higher than expected at 5.2% so well above inflation. I think that will make it a certainly the BOE doesn't lower the rates until the next meeting. Wages have now been growing above inflation for 18 months. It won't be felt due to just how high inflation went for those few years

I think inflation will steadily continue at an undesirable level throughout next year and that any notion of interest rate cuts is for the birds.

[Ozyhibby]

We were forecast to get interest rate cuts this month until the budget happened.[emoji849]


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[Pretty Boy]

I’d be surprised if the women involved will forget about it in a hurry, I’d be even more surprised if they were in much of a mood to forgive - even in a few years’ time.

Ducking out of paying up will have benefits for Labour but they won’t get away with it consequence free.


And the people in cold prison cells tonight for actions they committed during the summer riots will probably still have those riots very much on their minds.

A cynic might suggest that with only 20% of people 70+ voting Labour at the last election, only 23% of women and only 23% of retired people doing likewise they might write it off as a demographic in which they are never going to win much support anyway.

[Ozyhibby]

A cynic might suggest that with only 20% of people 70+ voting Labour at the last election, only 23% of women and only 23% of retired people doing likewise they might write it off as a demographic in which they are never going to win much support anyway.

I think that’s pretty much it. Problem they have is they are not doing much for any of the other groups either?
They keep saying there is no money but there are lots of things could be fixed that don’t cost money or even help growth. They are not doing those either.


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[Pretty Boy]

I think that’s pretty much it. Problem they have is they are not doing much for any of the other groups either?
They keep saying there is no money but there are lots of things could be fixed that don’t cost money or even help growth. They are not doing those either.


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No argument from me on that front.

[Stairway 2 7]

We were forecast to get interest rate cuts this month until the budget happened.[emoji849]


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That's because they chose to end austerity which made inflation stickier but it's still only 0.7% above the target and wages have been growing at 3% above that.

But you also can't have it both ways. Your complaining the end of austerity and tax rises made inflation slow slower, at the same time you want Labour to pay between £10-£30 billion to WASPIs which would undoubtedly raise guilty and inflation. You can't argue at both sides of the fence

[Stairway 2 7]

I think inflation will steadily continue at an undesirable level throughout next year and that any notion of interest rate cuts is for the birds.

IMF are expecting 3 interest rate cuts next year, most other like IMG are predicting 3 to 4, but you could be right

[H18S NX]

Labour to propose 30 more people to the House of Lords, I thought they wanted to reduce the HOL?

[CropleyWasGod]

They originally wanted up to 33k and John McDonnell agreed with them when shadow Chancellor, Corbyn pledged less in his electionmanifesto at £58 billion, although it wasn't costed. I think they changed there demands to 10,500 this year. Ombudsman said between 1 and 3 thousand, which would be between £3.5 and £10.5 billion

How were they ever going to identify those who genuinely didn't know about the changes (eg those who were carrying on their traditional gender roles and letting the menfolk worry about stuff like this :cb), and those who did know and took the appropriate action (whatever that was)?

Among all the many strands of politicking and other stuff that's going on, I can't see anyone asking why there was a difference anyway. I can remember, as a teenager, when "Women's Lib" was a thing, older men saying things like "women can have their equality when they have to work until 65, the same as us".



As an aside, my Granny used to lie about her age once she hit 60, so that she could continue to work :greengrin

[Andy Bee]

:confused:

The anger management bit was tongue in cheek mate but Peston actually came out on the National news and said Labour will not be happy until a demand for all puppies and kittens to be drowned is carried out. Peston is usually quite friendly towards Labour so I was pretty shocked, Tom Bradby didn't know how to follow it.

[Andy Bee]

Inflation from 1.7% pre budget to 2.3% post budget and now 2.6%. 35,000 jobs lost post budget. Private sector pay up 5.4% and public sector 4.7%. Living wage up 6.7% come April and both energy and food rising, energy to the highest in Europe by far when some pay the same wholesale rates as us is baffling, I thought we had a regulator? European Central Bank interest at 3% and projected to go as low as 1.7% and the Fed cutting rates also. Andrew Baillie hinted at 4 cuts this and next year but 91% of analysts project a hold in the next meeting. Andrew Baillie previously projected "aggressive cuts" pre budget this coming year but that aint obviously going to happen now. It'll be interesting to see what he does with the threat of recession looming. Does he hold rates to combat inflation or lower them slightly to promote growth?

[lapsedhibee]

They originally wanted up to 33k and John McDonnell agreed with them when shadow Chancellor,

That figure must have been to part-compensate for suffering 400 years of patriarchy or somesuch, as surely unrealistic for losses incurred during pension-age transition. (While generally unsympathetic to the WASPI cause, I do feel for the relatively few who are Japanese and were hiding in a jungle for 15-20 years, avoiding all contact with other humans.)

[cabbageandribs1875]

oopsie

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/470198805_8968629709860447_7814513080768910458_n.j pg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=ra3XCkVlwLoQ7kNvgHa9mVJ&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=Agb8UuAvMl7Hl7l9I5mCOdE&oh=00_AYAvWDEefP97krsqFVujMkrbCuJ-Cz0WDHBNLZ1NwXpqkQ&oe=6768DA9C

[lapsedhibee]

oopsie

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/470198805_8968629709860447_7814513080768910458_n.j pg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=ra3XCkVlwLoQ7kNvgHa9mVJ&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=Agb8UuAvMl7Hl7l9I5mCOdE&oh=00_AYAvWDEefP97krsqFVujMkrbCuJ-Cz0WDHBNLZ1NwXpqkQ&oe=6768DA9C

Would be interesting to know where she 'discovered' this.

[w pilton hibby]

Would be interesting to know where she 'discovered' this.

Probably read it on X

[CropleyWasGod]

Would be interesting to know where she 'discovered' this.

Got steaming, battered a disabled transgender asylum-seeker outside a kebab shop at 4am, and assumed she was for the jail.

[lapsedhibee]

Got steaming, battered a disabled transgender asylum-seeker outside a kebab shop at 4am, and assumed she was for the jail.

:greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

The anger management bit was tongue in cheek mate but Peston actually came out on the National news and said Labour will not be happy until a demand for all puppies and kittens to be drowned is carried out. Peston is usually quite friendly towards Labour so I was pretty shocked, Tom Bradby didn't know how to follow it.Peston tends to want to be a bit "edgy" to keep Peston in the limelight I feel.

It's not to say he isn't a good political commentator on his day because he is but maybe he needed a bit of exposure and puppies and kittens cross all sorts of divides in Britain.

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[grunt]

Peerages for Wendy Alexander and Margaret Curran. Oh, and Toby Young. :sick:

[Ozyhibby]

Peerages for Wendy Alexander and Margaret Curran. Oh, and Toby Young. :sick:

Remember when Labour were going to get rid of the Lords?[emoji2369][emoji23]
To be fair, their supporters lap it up and it works.


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[Andy Bee]

Peerages for Wendy Alexander and Margaret Curran. Oh, and Toby Young. :sick:

Sue Gray in as well. Peter Mandleson as UK Ambassador to the US, erm how's that going to work if Trump sticks to his promise and makes the Epstein list public?

[Ozyhibby]

Sue Gray in as well. Peter Mandleson as UK Ambassador to the US, erm how's that going to work if Trump sticks to his promise and makes the Epstein list public?

I wouldn’t worry about the last bit.


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[Bostonhibby]

Remember when Labour were going to get rid of the Lords?[emoji2369][emoji23]
To be fair, their supporters lap it up and it works.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkYep, that one should have been easy to do, and a money saver as well.

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[greenlex]

Ian Murray MP has denied deleting a page from his website. This one seems to have disappeared. ****ing snake.

[Stairway 2 7]

The ombudsman basically said the government was correct to change the age of the pension due to equality and that the government gave plenty notice. They said a small group of people should have been sent letters earlier 95% of people knew about the changes. WASPI group put forward 6 cases to the ombudsman. 1 had 3 homes. Another retired at 47, she admitted she got a letter but lost the pertinent pages.

https://x.com/john_actuary/status/1771977667404832990


I think the only positive is the people effected won't know about the decision as they don't keep up with any current affairs

[lapsedhibee]

The ombudsman basically said the government was correct to change the age of the pension due to equality and that the government gave plenty notice. They said a small group of people should have been sent letters earlier 95% of people knew about the changes. WASPI group put forward 6 cases to the ombudsman. 1 had 3 homes. Another retired at 47, she admitted she got a letter but lost the pertinent pages.

https://x.com/john_actuary/status/1771977667404832990


I think the only positive is the people effected won't know about the decision as they don't keep up with any current affairs

Got a link for the 6 cases?

[Hibs4185]

Sue Gray in as well. Peter Mandleson as UK Ambassador to the US, erm how's that going to work if Trump sticks to his promise and makes the Epstein list public?

I’ve been pretty vocal about my dislike for Starmer but this is the stupidest of the stupid.

The current ambassador is very well respected in Washington, so much so, she managed to get Starmer in early to see Trump, despite Starmer’s and Labour’s rhetoric against Trump.

No matter your view on Trump, it is better to be on the inside than outside and have good relations with America.

They’ve now replaced the well respected incumbent with Mandelson. One of Trump’s inner circle has now described Mandelson in very unsavoury terms, can’t remember the exact words.

Talking about shooting yourself in the foot.

Starmer is a joke

[Stairway 2 7]

Got a link for the 6 cases?

https://ombudsman.org.uk/sites/default/files/Women%E2%80%99s-State-Pension-age-our-findings-on-injustice-and-associated-issues.pdf…

[lapsedhibee]

https://ombudsman.org.uk/sites/default/files/Women%E2%80%99s-State-Pension-age-our-findings-on-injustice-and-associated-issues.pdf…

:aok:

[Andy Bee]

I’ve been pretty vocal about my dislike for Starmer but this is the stupidest of the stupid.

The current ambassador is very well respected in Washington, so much so, she managed to get Starmer in early to see Trump, despite Starmer’s and Labour’s rhetoric against Trump.

No matter your view on Trump, it is better to be on the inside than outside and have good relations with America.

They’ve now replaced the well respected incumbent with Mandelson. One of Trump’s inner circle has now described Mandelson in very unsavoury terms, can’t remember the exact words.

Talking about shooting yourself in the foot.

Starmer is a joke


He called him a total moron and it was Trumps deputy campaign manager. :greengrin

[Andy Bee]

The ombudsman basically said the government was correct to change the age of the pension due to equality and that the government gave plenty notice. They said a small group of people should have been sent letters earlier 95% of people knew about the changes. WASPI group put forward 6 cases to the ombudsman. 1 had 3 homes. Another retired at 47, she admitted she got a letter but lost the pertinent pages.

https://x.com/john_actuary/status/1771977667404832990


I think the only positive is the people effected won't know about the decision as they don't keep up with any current affairs

The fact that one has got 3 homes or not is immaterial, why mention it?

The Ombudsman ruled an injustice had taken place and compensation was due, it's really that clear. Dress it up however you like, to not take the Ombudsmans advice especially after all the soundbites of sticking up for WASPI Women is just plain wrong. The fact they're all now trying to delete their histories tells as much.

[Stairway 2 7]

The fact that one has got 3 homes or not is immaterial, why mention it?

The Ombudsman ruled an injustice had taken place and compensation was due, it's really that clear. Dress it up however you like, to not take the Ombudsmans advice especially after all the soundbites of sticking up for WASPI Women is just plain wrong. The fact they're all now trying to delete their histories tells as much.

The ombudsman said a small group of people probably less than 5% should have got letters earlier but said the letters might not have changed anything. It said the government was correct in changing the age and gave plenty notice. People are incorrectly thinking the ombudsman said everyone should get money or that the government shouldn't have equalised the age. The person with 3 homes chose to retire at 56 and obviously didn't get financial advice or watch or read the news for 15 years, no bother.

Labour were correct to not pay out. The are absolute hypocrites though as the campaigned to support a pay put. Politicians being lying **** bags shocker!!

[Moulin Yarns]

Following careful consideration of the PHSO’s report into how changes to the State Pension Age were communicated, the Government has accepted the Ombudsman’s finding of maladministration and has apologised for there being a 28-month delay in writing to 1950s-born women.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/response-to-phso-report-on-communication-of-changes-to-womens-state-pension-age

Evidence showed only one in four people remember receiving and reading letters that they weren’t expecting...

The Ombudsman found:

DWP provided adequate and accurate information between 1995 and 2004;DWP decision-making between 2005 and 2007 led to a 28-month delay in starting to send letters to 1950s-born women about State Pension age changes and that;These delays were maladministration and the Ombudsman found they led to injustice...




https://www.ombudsman.org.uk/publications/womens-state-pension-age-our-findings-department-work-and-pensions-communication-0



We consider that, if DWP had made a reasonable decision in August 2005 and then acted promptly, it would have written to affected women to tell them about changes to their State Pension age by, at the latest, December 2006. This is 28 months earlier than DWP actually wrote to them. It follows that these women should have had at least 28 months’ more individual notice of the changes than they got. The opportunity that additional notice would have given them to adjust their retirement plans was lost.



The failure of the DWP, a government department, led to women born in the 1950s not having sufficient time to change retirement plans.

There should be compensation aimed at those born earlier and affected most by the government failure. IMHO

[grunt]

Oh God, is Starmer and Labour going to get EVERYTHING wrong??

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/21/ministers-resist-calls-to-block-musk-donations-to-farages-reform-uk


Ministers resist calls to block Musk donations to Farage’s Reform UK

[Jack]

The government needs to decide soon if what an ombudsman says is sacrosanct, or if it can be dismissed which ombudsman falls into each category.

The common belief that an ombudsman's word is final is obviously incorrect.

[Ozyhibby]

The ombudsman said a small group of people probably less than 5% should have got letters earlier but said the letters might not have changed anything. It said the government was correct in changing the age and gave plenty notice. People are incorrectly thinking the ombudsman said everyone should get money or that the government shouldn't have equalised the age. The person with 3 homes chose to retire at 56 and obviously didn't get financial advice or watch or read the news for 15 years, no bother.

Labour were correct to not pay out. The are absolute hypocrites though as the campaigned to support a pay put. Politicians being lying **** bags shocker!!

You can’t just excuse them because they are Labour?


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[Ozyhibby]

Oh God, is Starmer and Labour going to get EVERYTHING wrong??

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/dec/21/ministers-resist-calls-to-block-musk-donations-to-farages-reform-uk

Labour are raking it in from big business just now. Can’t change the rules now.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://bsky.app/profile/edconway.bsky.social/post/3ldxgsuww7c2o

Economic picture getting worse under Starmer.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy0n14ywzqpo

Running out of ideas?


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[Paul1642]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy0n14ywzqpo

Running out of ideas?


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Not a good look.

[Ozyhibby]

Not a good look.

To be fair, I think everyone must be thinking ofwat haven’t been doing enough for big business.[emoji849][emoji23]


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[Bostonhibby]

To be fair, I think everyone must be thinking ofwat haven’t been doing enough for big business.[emoji849][emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkGood point, turkeys being given the chance to reinvent xmas springs to mind.

I can't think of a UK regulator that hasn't been moulded to simply be a front for letting money makers do what they want or at best be compliant with what past government's pals want to happen in, or to regulated areas.

There isn't one that feels fit for purpose because those that appoint the regulators don't seem to want them to be.

We have toothless regulators who dish out fines which businesses simply pass on as costs to customers or taxpayers, whilst in the case of businesses they carry on rewarding themselves and shareholders disproportionate to the mediocre services they provide. Water is clearly the best example of that.

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[Jack]

I really don't see the problem with these meetings as such and any other meetings they have with stakeholders.

I think one of Labour's big failings in Scotland before they got booted out was their arrogance in formulating policy in a locked Labour backroom then dictating to those how it must be done. It failed.

In their first term the SNP spoke with as many people as they could basically saying 'this is where we want be, how can you help us get there?'. It worked where I was working. All of a sudden things were working in about as close to harmony as I ever thought possible. I don't know but it doesn't look as though the same conversations are happening now which is a pity.

It's not Labour having the conversations that should be the issue. It will be what they do afterwards and how people perceive the implementation of policies formed.

[Ozyhibby]

I really don't see the problem with these meetings as such and any other meetings they have with stakeholders.

I think one of Labour's big failings in Scotland before they got booted out was their arrogance in formulating policy in a locked Labour backroom then dictating to those how it must be done. It failed.

In their first term the SNP spoke with as many people as they could basically saying 'this is where we want be, how can you help us get there?'. It worked where I was working. All of a sudden things were working in about as close to harmony as I ever thought possible. I don't know but it doesn't look as though the same conversations are happening now which is a pity.

It's not Labour having the conversations that should be the issue. It will be what they do afterwards and how people perceive the implementation of policies formed.

I just expected them to already have some sort of plan to start implementing when they got elected. 14 years in opposition, 5 years with Starmer in charge and we get to 6 months in power and they start casting around for ideas? This has to be the least imaginative govt ever.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/30/uk-teenager-marcus-fakana-begins-dubai-jail-term-for-relationship-with-17-year-old-girl?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky&CMP=bsky_gu

Can’t help but feel that if this kid was white we would be doing a lot more to get him home. Media would certainly have paid more attention. Starmer should be turning this into a diplomatic incident.


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[Hibrandenburg]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2024/dec/30/uk-teenager-marcus-fakana-begins-dubai-jail-term-for-relationship-with-17-year-old-girl?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky&CMP=bsky_gu

Can’t help but feel that if this kid was white we would be doing a lot more to get him home. Media would certainly have paid more attention. Starmer should be turning this into a diplomatic incident.


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Normally I'd agree but it's the UAE we're talking about, they can do no wrong.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jan/03/britain-social-care-crisis-labour-plans-to-fix-it?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky&CMP=bsky_gu

14 years in opposition and he announces a review that will report back in 4 years.[emoji849][emoji23]


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[Andy Bee]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jan/03/britain-social-care-crisis-labour-plans-to-fix-it?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky&CMP=bsky_gu

14 years in opposition and he announces a review that will report back in 4 years.[emoji849][emoji23]


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£165k of reported personal donations all related to companies with interests in health couldn't be a factor could it? Our Wes is surely beyond being influenced financially by external factors surely?

Signed.... A Palantir

[Bristolhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy0n14ywzqpo

Running out of ideas?


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Here’s a simple one.

Join the Single market and allow FOM.

Brexit is still Brexit, but we get some kind of Norway / Switzerland access that we were all promised.

That would boost growth.

J

[Andy Bee]

Here's an easier one, join EFTA.

[Andy Bee]

Another 20 Labour councillors leave the party.

https://www.itv.com/news/central/2025-01-02/broxtowe-councillors-resign-from-labour-party-condemning-pms-leadership

[Ozyhibby]

£165k of reported personal donations all related to companies with interests in health couldn't be a factor could it? Our Wes is surely beyond being influenced financially by external factors surely?

Signed.... A Palantir

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250103/09c94d49c47f447623d70b0addd4317e.jpg

This Labour govt are worse than some of their harsher critics even expected.


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[Bostonhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jan/03/britain-social-care-crisis-labour-plans-to-fix-it?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky&CMP=bsky_gu

14 years in opposition and he announces a review that will report back in 4 years.[emoji849][emoji23]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkComical, but is it potentially quicker than the report into Russian interference in UK when the party in a position to get it done wasn't in opposition?

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[Ozyhibby]

Comical, but is it potentially quicker than the report into Russian interference in UK when the party in a position to get it done wasn't in opposition?

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Neither will happen so the result is the same. Big boost for private providers though.


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[Bostonhibby]

Neither will happen so the result is the same. Big boost for private providers though.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkIndeed, my views on Streeting and his impact on labour are documented above[emoji849]

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[Stairway 2 7]

Elon has written 60 anti labour, Rotherham, pro Reform and Tommy Robinson tweets in the last 4 days, some off them awful

@elonmusk
Jess Philips is a rape genocide apologist

[Ozyhibby]

Elon has written 60 anti labour, Rotherham, pro Reform and Tommy Robinson tweets in the last 4 days, some off them awful

@elonmusk
Jess Philips is a rape genocide apologist

Nothing will be done about it though. Starmer not interested in upsetting the oligarchs.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Nothing will be done about it though. Starmer not interested in upsetting the oligarchs.


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How is Starmer meant to stop him tweeting on his own website. If he tries to ban it he hands Musk a win. I actually think Musk has over reached in saying free Tommy Robinson. The overwhelming majority of the public hate him and the ones that don't don't vote

[Ozyhibby]

How is Starmer meant to stop him tweeting on his own website. If he tries to ban it he hands Musk a win. I actually think Musk has over reached in saying free Tommy Robinson. The overwhelming majority of the public hate him and the ones that don't don't vote

If he is using his website to stir up hatred and spread misinformation then if the UK govt can’t do something about that then there is something wrong? And if he can’t protect MP’s from potential violence then what is he for?
Personally I would block X at this point.


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[JimBHibees]

If he is using his website to stir up hatred and spread misinformation then if the UK govt can’t do something about that then there is something wrong? And if he can’t protect MP’s from potential violence then what is he for?
Personally I would block X at this point.


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Agree something needs to be done

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.independent.co.uk/tv/news/elon-musk-keir-starmer-grooming-wes-streeting-b2673339.html

Streeting bends the knee. Jess Phillips must be so proud to have him as a colleague.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250104/0ccd12d49a02639bcb9f06cbdb3e8ee3.png
Starmer still doing nothing while this goes on.


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[Callum_62]

Elon laying the groundwork early for PM Farage

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[Andy Bee]

Elon laying the groundwork early for PM Farage

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The latest MRP poll by More in Common has Reform with 72 seats and second place in a further 206 seats, Tories with 222 seats and Labour with 228. Interestingly the SNP would be the King makers if the poll turned into results. If the Reform membership ticker is to be believed they have now just short of 170k members and gaining momentum at an alarming rate.

https://www.moreincommon.org.uk/latest-insights/mrp-december/

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/society/2025/jan/04/labour-retreats-on-rape-courts-pledge-amid-fears-over-shortage-of-lawyers?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky&CMP=bsky_gu

Anyone know what exactly is this govt doing?


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[Ozyhibby]

https://bylinetimes.com/2024/11/11/the-psycho-social-techno-politics-of-maga-trumps-democracy-and-the-liberal-left-has-no-answer/

Put this in here but could go in a number of threads. It’s depressing reading but doesn’t make it any less true.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jan/05/start-rebuilding-work-keir-starmer-who-you-are-different-to-the-last-bunch-of-cowboys?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky&CMP=bsky_gu
Accurate assesment.


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[Colr]

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/jan/05/start-rebuilding-work-keir-starmer-who-you-are-different-to-the-last-bunch-of-cowboys?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky&CMP=bsky_gu
Accurate assesment.


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Couldn’t agree more. Still waiting for them to make the direct moves on housing. I think Khan is making the right noises in London

Last time it took a year to get education provision moving but then it took off so I’m hoping that this spring will see some action.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,scottish-budget-set-to-pass-as-anas-sarwar-confirms-labour-will-abstain

6 Months ago he would have loved to have forced an early election.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://news.sky.com/story/bluesky-13285470

Reeves budget still not looking great.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

BLiS have a new little Gimmicky slogan, it's now "new direction" Anas Sarwar dumps 'change' slogan after rocky start by Keir Starmer's Labour Government - Daily Record (https://archive.ph/ObiS6)

[Ozyhibby]

BLiS have a new little Gimmicky slogan, it's now "new direction" Anas Sarwar dumps 'change' slogan after rocky start by Keir Starmer's Labour Government - Daily Record (https://archive.ph/ObiS6)

They should go with ‘Vote Labour to stop Labour’. It’s what they are trying to sell anyway.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/09/rachel-reeves-cuts-public-services-borrowing-costs-tax?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Budget such a success that we may be having another one in the spring.[emoji849]


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[Andy Bee]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/jan/09/rachel-reeves-cuts-public-services-borrowing-costs-tax?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Budget such a success that we may be having another one in the spring.[emoji849]


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£9.9bn of headroom all but gone and guaranteeing no tax rises, there's a word for what's coming but I aint saying it, Stairway will have a fit. On the bright side for them though, they're cancelling the local elections in May, that's handy.

[Ozyhibby]

£9.9bn of headroom all but gone and guaranteeing no tax rises, there's a word for what's coming but I aint saying it, Stairway will have a fit. On the bright side for them though, they're cancelling the local elections in May, that's handy.

A tax on jobs means less jobs. I’m not sure why they thought it a good idea?[emoji2369] The bond markets can see what’s coming and we will all pay.


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[Hibs4185]

A tax on jobs means less jobs. I’m not sure why they thought it a good idea?[emoji2369] The bond markets can see what’s coming and we will all pay.


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Genuinely speechless on the state they’ve got us into.

I’m no Tory but Sunak had the country growing and out of the woods. I saw so many commentators saying Sunak was bonkers to call the election as the economy was coming good.

They then went further and said how amazing for Labour they were inheriting a blossoming economy which made their job easier.

The tories bashed Labour for years over the note left in the treasury saying ‘good luck there is no money left’. We’ll
I can help but feel the doom and gloom over the economy and the £22bilion black hole was said in order to bash the tories for years to come.

If the £22 billion was real, which it isn’t, then it would be a key phrase in which to fight another election amd discredit the tories.

In essence, the Labour approach has been politicking and in order to tarnish the tories they’ve ruined the economy.

They are looking at a spring budget, thinks could get very ugly before then and Reeves will be lucky to still be in post although Starmer won’t have the balls to sack her.

Absolute shambles

[lapsedhibee]

Genuinely speechless on the state they’ve got us into.

I’m no Tory but Sunak had the country growing and out of the woods. I saw so many commentators saying Sunak was bonkers to call the election as the economy was coming good.

They then went further and said how amazing for Labour they were inheriting a blossoming economy which made their job easier.



Telegraph? :dunno:

[Bostonhibby]

Genuinely speechless on the state they’ve got us into.

I’m no Tory but Sunak had the country growing and out of the woods. I saw so many commentators saying Sunak was bonkers to call the election as the economy was coming good.

They then went further and said how amazing for Labour they were inheriting a blossoming economy which made their job easier.

The tories bashed Labour for years over the note left in the treasury saying ‘good luck there is no money left’. We’ll
I can help but feel the doom and gloom over the economy and the £22bilion black hole was said in order to bash the tories for years to come.

If the £22 billion was real, which it isn’t, then it would be a key phrase in which to fight another election amd discredit the tories.

In essence, the Labour approach has been politicking and in order to tarnish the tories they’ve ruined the economy.

They are looking at a spring budget, thinks could get very ugly before then and Reeves will be lucky to still be in post although Starmer won’t have the balls to sack her.

Absolute shamblesThe IFS commentary on this was helpful. Leading up to the critical date only the party in power could direct what was happening with the finances at the time and probably even in the short term after they've gone.

I think Labour have caught the ball now though.

https://ifs.org.uk/articles/ps22bn-black-hole-was-obvious-anyone-who-dared-look

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[Smartie]

Genuinely speechless on the state they’ve got us into.

I’m no Tory but Sunak had the country growing and out of the woods. I saw so many commentators saying Sunak was bonkers to call the election as the economy was coming good.

They then went further and said how amazing for Labour they were inheriting a blossoming economy which made their job easier.

The tories bashed Labour for years over the note left in the treasury saying ‘good luck there is no money left’. We’ll
I can help but feel the doom and gloom over the economy and the £22bilion black hole was said in order to bash the tories for years to come.

If the £22 billion was real, which it isn’t, then it would be a key phrase in which to fight another election amd discredit the tories.

In essence, the Labour approach has been politicking and in order to tarnish the tories they’ve ruined the economy.

They are looking at a spring budget, thinks could get very ugly before then and Reeves will be lucky to still be in post although Starmer won’t have the balls to sack her.

Absolute shambles

I feel like we’ve had the wrong governments at the wrong time.

There was never a right time to have Johnson of Truss but a decent Labour government to steer us through covid and the events beyond it (and avoid nonsense such as “eat out to help out”) would have been useful.

Having weathered a lot of the trouble of those few years though, it felt like with Sunak as PM and Hunt as chancellor that there were green shoots and positive signs. That’s been well and truly extinguished with Labour, who appear hell bent on driving us into a recession. A bit like with Brexiteers, they appear prepared to do anything other than what will actually improve the situation because they’re ideologically opposed to it. It’s going to seriously damage their image in the long term.

I’m no Tory either btw and don’t really like the old fashioned left /right view of the world. I’d consider myself centrist, with left and right opinions and a preparedness to lurch either way if the situation requires it.

[grunt]

If the £22 billion was real, which it isn’t, then it would be a key phrase in which to fight another election amd discredit the tories.
:confused:

[grunt]

Having weathered a lot of the trouble of those few years though, it felt like with Sunak as PM and Hunt as chancellor that there were green shoots and positive signs.
:confused:

[Kato]

Genuinely speechless on the state they’ve got us into.

I’m no Tory but Sunak had the country growing and out of the woods. I saw so many commentators saying Sunak was bonkers to call the election as the economy was coming good.

They then went further and said how amazing for Labour they were inheriting a blossoming economy which made their job easier.

The tories bashed Labour for years over the note left in the treasury saying ‘good luck there is no money left’. We’ll
I can help but feel the doom and gloom over the economy and the £22bilion black hole was said in order to bash the tories for years to come.

If the £22 billion was real, which it isn’t, then it would be a key phrase in which to fight another election amd discredit the tories.

In essence, the Labour approach has been politicking and in order to tarnish the tories they’ve ruined the economy.

They are looking at a spring budget, thinks could get very ugly before then and Reeves will be lucky to still be in post although Starmer won’t have the balls to sack her.

Absolute shamblesThere was one month's growth at 0.1% iirc.

What other "greenshoots" were there ?

There were other commentators saying that the election was called because the projections for economy were really bad.

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[Bristolhibby]

I feel like we’ve had the wrong governments at the wrong time.

There was never a right time to have Johnson of Truss but a decent Labour government to steer us through covid and the events beyond it (and avoid nonsense such as “eat out to help out”) would have been useful.

Having weathered a lot of the trouble of those few years though, it felt like with Sunak as PM and Hunt as chancellor that there were green shoots and positive signs. That’s been well and truly extinguished with Labour, who appear hell bent on driving us into a recession. A bit like with Brexiteers, they appear prepared to do anything other than what will actually improve the situation because they’re ideologically opposed to it. It’s going to seriously damage their image in the long term.

I’m no Tory either btw and don’t really like the old fashioned left /right view of the world. I’d consider myself centrist, with left and right opinions and a preparedness to lurch either way if the situation requires it.

Personally he’s painted himself into a corner.

Tell you what would kick start growth. Single market access for goods and services. That should be his top priority.

Spell it out to the idiots. We have Brexit and we have single market access. Exactly what many leave voters voted for.

Hammer that message home. Scream over Farage and Badenoch. We need growth. This will allow goods to be traded and investment and people (aka tax payers) to come in.

Do it now. There’s five years for the heat to die down before a new election. Say it’s an emergency. This improves BREXIT.

J

[Bristolhibby]

There was one month's growth at 0.1% iirc.

What other "greenshoots" were there ?

There were other commentators saying that the election was called because the projections for economy were really bad.

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Also the Tories were eating themselves.

J

[RyeSloan]

There was one month's growth at 0.1% iirc.

What other "greenshoots" were there ?

There were other commentators saying that the election was called because the projections for economy were really bad.

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2024 Q1 - 0.7%
2024 Q2 - 0.5%

Reeves dismalism arrives

2024 Q3 - 0.1%

Reeves budget arrives

2024 Q4 Forecast - 0%

Coincidence? Maybe.

[Kato]

2024 Q1 - 0.7%
2024 Q2 - 0.5%

Reeves dismalism arrives

2024 Q3 - 0.1%

Reeves budget arrives

2024 Q4 Forecast - 0%

Coincidence? Maybe.Aye, maybe. Thanks for the actual figures. Still, not a startling amount of growth to able to say "the worst is over."

I reckon the damage done by the last govt over 14 years isn't publicised very well and is very much ignored at the moment.

eg

GDP per capita
2008 UK $47k USA $49k
2010 UK $40k USA $48k
2023 UK $46k USA $76k

That's a steep hill to climb and won't be fixed by one budget, if at all.


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[RyeSloan]

Aye, maybe. Thanks for the actual figures. Still, not a startling amount of growth to able to say "the worst is over."

I reckon the damage done by the last govt over 14 years isn't publicised very well and is very much ignored at the moment.

eg

GDP per capita
2008 UK $47k USA $49k
2010 UK $40k USA $48k
2023 UK $46k USA $76k

That's a steep hill to climb and won't be fixed by one budget, if at all.


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Oh for sure. The U.K. has got itself in a right muddle on many fronts with regards to having the right foundations for sustained growth.

I’ve little faith that any of the politicians then or now have any real clue as to what’s needed or the real desire to be bold enough to deliver.

Hope I’m wrong but so far so meh from the latest lot in terms of grasping the nettle there but I suppose time will tell.

[Ozyhibby]

Personally he’s painted himself into a corner.

Tell you what would kick start growth. Single market access for goods and services. That should be his top priority.

Spell it out to the idiots. We have Brexit and we have single market access. Exactly what many leave voters voted for.

Hammer that message home. Scream over Farage and Badenoch. We need growth. This will allow goods to be traded and investment and people (aka tax payers) to come in.

Do it now. There’s five years for the heat to die down before a new election. Say it’s an emergency. This improves BREXIT.

J

Pre Brexit Johnson, Carswell, Cummings and Hannan all said we would be able to stay in the SM and CU. It’s not betraying anyone to move back into them. And the public would back that. Starmer needs to grow a pair and do what’s right for the economy or he could find himself in a very sticky situation.


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[Bristolhibby]

Pre Brexit Johnson, Carswell, Cummings and Hannan all said we would be able to stay in the SM and CU. It’s not betraying anyone to move back into them. And the public would back that. Starmer needs to grow a pair and do what’s right for the economy or he could find himself in a very sticky situation.


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Exactly.

[Smartie]

Aye, maybe. Thanks for the actual figures. Still, not a startling amount of growth to able to say "the worst is over."

I reckon the damage done by the last govt over 14 years isn't publicised very well and is very much ignored at the moment.

eg

GDP per capita
2008 UK $47k USA $49k
2010 UK $40k USA $48k
2023 UK $46k USA $76k

That's a steep hill to climb and won't be fixed by one budget, if at all.


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No doubt about that.

I made the "green shoots" comment and it was more a comment about the fact that we'd fought back from a fairly awful place - getting the high inflation etc under control. The awful place had some external forces at play but most of the awful place was absolutely down to the Tories and their own actions - Brexit, Trussonomics, abysmal management of covid etc etc.

I just thought that the iteration of the Tories who were eventually blamed and booted out were a lot closer to being what we needed to continue the move away from the precipice than the charlatans who went before them, or (as it appears) Starmer and Reeves and their Labour vision.

And I'd love Labour to get a grip and make it all better, because if they don't then the alternatives to follow them don't bear thinking about, which is basically different shades of the chicanery and ****wittery that led us here in the first place.

[grunt]

I made the "green shoots" comment and it was more a comment about the fact that we'd fought back from a fairly awful place - getting the high inflation etc under control.
Which had nothing to do with any actions by the lying Tory government.

[Stairway 2 7]

£9.9bn of headroom all but gone and guaranteeing no tax rises, there's a word for what's coming but I aint saying it, Stairway will have a fit. On the bright side for them though, they're cancelling the local elections in May, that's handy.

If you want to say austerity be brave padawan. I'd be stunned if Labour don't bring in austerity at some point. They are a centre right neolib government. Fact is though everyone thought they would bring in austerity but they brung in the most left wing budget in 30 plus years.

Spending was 45% of gdp when they came in, debt was 100% and tax was at a 70 year high. Labour chose to be verging on far left. Borrowed £100 billion to pay off unions and end austerity. They also raised taxes above that amount.

You have to remember most on this board say they are left but care more about the markets and say you can't upset them. Ending austerity makes the markets angry.

I want independence more than anything but I think we should warn people that the markets will go into meltdown post it obviously. If we don't the media will use it as an end of world event

[Stairway 2 7]

Which had nothing to do with any actions by the lying Tory government.

It is utterly bizarre that people think inflation up or down is mostly controlled by the government. Sunak for his faults was intelligent, he was lying deliberately when he said they would bring down inflation

[Ozyhibby]

If you want to say austerity be brave padawan. I'd be stunned if Labour don't bring in austerity at some point. They are a centre right neolib government. Fact is though everyone thought they would bring in austerity but they brung in the most left wing budget in 30 plus years.

Spending was 45% of gdp when they came in, debt was 100% and tax was at a 70 year high. Labour chose to be verging on far left. Borrowed £100 billion to pay off unions and end austerity. They also raised taxes above that amount.

You have to remember most on this board say they are left but care more about the markets and say you can't upset them. Ending austerity makes the markets angry.

I want independence more than anything but I think we should warn people that the markets will go into meltdown post it obviously. If we don't the media will use it as an end of world event

Markets don’t care about austerity if you have growth.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Markets don’t care about austerity if you have growth.


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Yep but generally austerity is the best way of getting growth. The markets said one of the biggest causes of shrinking growth in the budget wad the huge public sector wage rises. If we'd given nhs workers less we'd have more delicious growth. You slated labour for going for austerity then slated them for not going for austerity it's a great position. I'd like to see everyone on here's perfect budget, I'd suspect most would be right wing

[Ozyhibby]

Yep but generally austerity is the best way of getting growth. The markets said one of the biggest causes of shrinking growth in the budget wad the huge public sector wage rises. If we'd given nhs workers less we'd have more delicious growth. You slated labour for going for austerity then slated them for not going for austerity it's a great position. I'd like to see everyone on here's perfect budget, I'd suspect most would be right wing

You can get growth by freeing up planning, encouraging immigration and leveraging the private sector to build things. No need for austerity.
Join the SM and CU as well.
Growth is available if Starmer wants it but he has to be honest about how we get it.

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[Stairway 2 7]

You can get growth by freeing up planning, encouraging immigration and leveraging the private sector to build things. No need for austerity.
Join the SM and CU as well.
Growth is available if Starmer wants it but he has to be honest about how we get it.

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What about in the real world. We had almost 1 million net migration how much do you want for your growth paradise. You need to admit first massive public sector wage rises effected inflation and also ending austerity?

[Ozyhibby]

What about in the real world. We had almost 1 million net migration how much do you want for your growth paradise. You need to admit first massive public sector wage rises effected inflation and also ending austerity?

Without growth austerity is coming back. Starmer needs to think of something quickly. There is barely a crane to be seen these days because there is nothing happening in the UK economy.


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[Smartie]

Without growth austerity is coming back. Starmer needs to think of something quickly. There is barely a crane to be seen these days because there is nothing happening in the UK economy.


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What sort of time scale and geographical location are you meaning with your “barely a crane” comment?

Reason I say that is to say - have you been to Manchester lately? Cranes everywhere, part of the city is turning into Skyscraper city and I’ve heard it occasionally nicknamed Manc-hattan. There’s building and there’s growth where there’s a microclimate to make it happen.

Not everywhere, granted, but as ever there are parts that appear to be in slow but terminal decline and others that are booming.

[Stairway 2 7]

Without growth austerity is coming back. Starmer needs to think of something quickly. There is barely a crane to be seen these days because there is nothing happening in the UK economy.


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Everyone wants no tax rises, no austerity, huge growth. In the real world you have to pick your poison. I'd get voted out first term as I'd want large income and corporation tax rises, large minimum wage rises. All would effect growth and job creation. The gilts would get destroyed and I'd be booted

The system is created to keep the tories in or at least a right wing Labour and the public help by agreeing with it. I think Labour will switch more right with and go for austerity in March, because markets and social media say

[Stairway 2 7]

What sort of time scale and geographical location are you meaning with your “barely a crane” comment?

Reason I say that is to say - have you been to Manchester lately? Cranes everywhere, part of the city is turning into Skyscraper city and I’ve heard it occasionally nicknamed Manc-hattan. There’s building and there’s growth where there’s a microclimate to make it happen.

Not everywhere, granted, but as ever there are parts that appear to be in slow but terminal decline and others that are booming.

Cities are dying ok but I agree with Oz that building is a disgrace compared to our net migration. Labour said they would change that. If they don't improve in the next few years I'd say their Raison d'être for this parliament has failed and they need voted out. I'm dubious they will change anything in a meaningful way. That and Milliband being hopeless on nuclear is the reason Labour has been a waste

[grunt]

Cities are dying ok but I agree with Oz that building is a disgrace compared to our net migration. Labour said they would change that. If they don't improve in the next few years I'd say their Raison d'être for this parliament has failed and they need voted out. I'm dubious they will change anything in a meaningful way. That and Milliband being hopeless on nuclear is the reason Labour has been a waste
Back to Lying Tory Grifting?

Independence please.

[Smartie]

Everyone wants no tax rises, no austerity, huge growth. In the real world you have to pick your poison. I'd get voted out first term as I'd want large income and corporation tax rises, large minimum wage rises. All would effect growth and job creation. The gilts would get destroyed and I'd be booted

The system is created to keep the tories in and the public help by agreeing with it

I sort of get your point, and the one that’s been alluded to at points in this thread.

Is there any actual point in politics? Is there any point in having a left wing opinion, or to go the other way, be like Liz Truss? Or is what you’re actually allowed to do all just determined by “the markets”?

Liz Truss isn’t somebody I naturally agree with on anything but I’ve heard her thoughts on something referred to as “the blob” referred to second hand, probably on the Rest is Politics. That refers to a big, sluggish, immovable, homogenous mass of all sorts of institutions (roughly what Trump refers to as the deep state) preventing any more radical approach from being taken. It tripped up her right wing vision just as it would trip up your left wing alternative proposal here.

I think she’s onto something - and I can’t decide whether the existence of this blob is something positive and comfortable or whether there’s a little bit of the anarchist in me that would like to see it all blown up one way or another.

Either way, it feels like we need change but are hamstrung when it comes to being able to actually enact meaningful change.

Agree 💯 with the comments about smoothing the edges of Brexit as much as we possibly can btw.

[Stairway 2 7]

I sort of get your point, and the one that’s been alluded to at points in this thread.

Is there any actual point in politics? Is there any point in having a left wing opinion, or to go the other way, be like Liz Truss? Or is what you’re actually allowed to do all just determined by “the markets”?

Liz Truss isn’t somebody I naturally agree with on anything but I’ve heard her thoughts on something referred to as “the blob” referred to second hand, probably on the Rest is Politics. That refers to a big, sluggish, immovable, homogenous mass of all sorts of institutions (roughly what Trump refers to as the deep state) preventing any more radical approach from being taken. It tripped up her right wing vision just as it would trip up your left wing alternative proposal here.

I think she’s onto something - and I can’t decide whether the existence of this blob is something positive and comfortable or whether there’s a little bit of the anarchist in me that would like to see it all blown up one way or another.

Either way, it feels like we need change but are hamstrung when it comes to being able to actually enact meaningful change.

Agree 💯 with the comments about smoothing the edges of Brexit as much as we possibly can btw.

I could have posted that 👍. I think we're given the allusion of choice. Left wing budget spook the markets, right wing the same, keep it central and your pension will be OK in the future..

[Bristolhibby]

Yep but generally austerity is the best way of getting growth. The markets said one of the biggest causes of shrinking growth in the budget wad the huge public sector wage rises. If we'd given nhs workers less we'd have more delicious growth. You slated labour for going for austerity then slated them for not going for austerity it's a great position. I'd like to see everyone on here's perfect budget, I'd suspect most would be right wing

Public Sector pay increases being the catalyst for inflation is the biggest lie ever said. The Tories spouted it out ad infinitum till it stuck.

Low growth, poor consumer confidence, cutting yourself off from your biggest markets, COVID handling, all to blame. All lay at the Tories door.

J

[Bristolhibby]

without growth austerity is coming back. Starmer needs to think of something quickly. There is barely a crane to be seen these days because there is nothing happening in the uk economy.


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cu & sm.

J

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.holyrood.com/comment/view,keir-starmer-is-a-dead-man-walking-before-even-getting-into-his-stride-as-prime-minister

Is Starmer a dead man walking?


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[grunt]

https://www.holyrood.com/comment/view,keir-starmer-is-a-dead-man-walking-before-even-getting-into-his-stride-as-prime-minister

Is Starmer a dead man walking? That Holyrood website is perpetually disappointing. The quality of the articles is uniformly poor.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250115/4911dbb6fb4bd5d8d62dff639d18644f.jpg


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[Ozyhibby]

Lower than expected growth figures today of 0.1% but it is still growth so should be seen as good news.[emoji51]


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[grunt]

Lower than expected growth figures today of 0.1% but it is still growth so should be seen as good news.[emoji51]

Just serves to remind me that Labour continue to blithely ignore the obvious way to resume economic growth. Damn Starmer and his stupid red lines.

[Ozyhibby]

Starmer doing what the UK does best, launching yet another enquiry. Must be one of our biggest industries.


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[Bristolhibby]

Starmer doing what the UK does best, launching yet another enquiry. Must be one of our biggest industries.


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TBF if you want to change something after 14 years, you have to know what went on and what is going on. 6 months in seems the right thing to do. All above board and critically, impartial. There should be no politics in issues such as this.

J

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.cityam.com/reeves-to-water-down-non-dom-changes-as-scale-of-exodus-revealed/

Labour already watering down plans to scrap non dom status. Will it ever happen?
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250123/c54b31315a67b59e00d304c3dec5c555.jpg

At least she is listening to their concerns. Didn’t bother to listen to the concerns of freezing pensioners though.

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[Ozyhibby]

https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-david-mcwilliams-podcast/id1462649946?i=1000684994871

Are we heading for an IMF bailout?


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[grunt]

At least she is listening to their concerns. Didn’t bother to listen to the concerns of freezing pensioners though.

Or the concerns of upwards of 60% who want back in the EU.

[Ozyhibby]

Or the concerns of upwards of 60% who want back in the EU.

If you’re not in London you are of no interest to the UK govt.


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[Jones28]

God this speech from Reeves is dull.

She sounds like a female Starmer, same levels of dynamism as a wet tea towel.

Whats the point? Who is this for? I wanted to listen to James Obrien on LBC so I'm listening by accident.

[Ozyhibby]

God this speech from Reeves is dull.

She sounds like a female Starmer, same levels of dynamism as a wet tea towel.

Whats the point? Who is this for? I wanted to listen to James Obrien on LBC so I'm listening by accident.

So pleased to hear we are getting more infrastructure for London. They are so often forgotten and neglected by govt. Glad to hear that we are making big changes in this respect.[emoji106][emoji849]


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[nonshinyfinish]

God this speech from Reeves is dull.

She sounds like a female Starmer, same levels of dynamism as a wet tea towel.

Whats the point? Who is this for? I wanted to listen to James Obrien on LBC so I'm listening by accident.

Obviously the important thing is what they actually do, but I'm generally in favour of a chancellor being a boring b*****d.

[Stairway 2 7]

So pleased to hear we are getting more infrastructure for London. They are so often forgotten and neglected by govt. Glad to hear that we are making big changes in this respect.[emoji106][emoji849]


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All of the things she announced were devolved, we can have more rail lines and new towns if we want?

It's easy for her to promise it harder to deliver. Constantly saying planning will reform and we will start building, with little actual action

[Ozyhibby]

All of the things she announced were devolved, we can have more rail lines and new towns if we want?

It's easy for her to promise it harder to deliver. Constantly saying planning will reform and we will start building, with little actual action

Have they put changes to planning laws to parliament yet?

I know it’s devolved and I wish the SNP (or any of the other Scottish parties) would start talking about such things again. Hard to plan though when the funding can be pulled by London at a moments notice.


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[Stairway 2 7]

Have they put changes to planning laws to parliament yet?

I know it’s devolved and I wish the SNP (or any of the other Scottish parties) would start talking about such things again. Hard to plan though when the funding can be pulled by London at a moments notice.


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I don't think Labour have done anything on planning rather than constantly saying we are improving planning

[Ozyhibby]

https://youtu.be/OhrFZwEmdwU?si=inxduPBaP9dR8wgp

Labour can’t even say if it’s wrong for the US to try take Greenland.[emoji35]


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[DaveF]

Gotta love the Labour back tracking.

First it was Lammy crawling to Trump, now it's Mandelson.

For some reason I can't post a link but it's easy to find.

[Andy Bee]

Gotta love the Labour back tracking.

First it was Lammy crawling to Trump, now it's Mandelson.

For some reason I can't post a link but it's easy to find.



https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/peter-mandelson-donald-trump-us-ambassador-b2688300.html

Trump's promised to release the Epstein docs, Pete must be sweating it a bit but luckily for him I doubt Trump will go near that one.

[Jack]

So pleased to hear we are getting more infrastructure for London. They are so often forgotten and neglected by govt. Glad to hear that we are making big changes in this respect.[emoji106][emoji849]


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Every cloud and all that, maybe this is the reason it's being built 😆

“I will lie down in front of those bulldozers and stop the construction of that third runway… Heathrow is just undeliverable, and the sooner we face that the sooner our salvation.”

Boris Johnson – London Mayor, 2015

[greenlex]

Public money being spent giving a football club (that pays players millions) a helping hand. Meanwhile a Joseph rowntree report reckon one in three children will be in poverty by about 2029(don’t quote me on the year but it’s not a million miles away. Labour aye? I remember getting a bit of stick when a knight of the realm got the top job and I was against it. I’ll never vote for them again in my life.

[Andy Bee]

Jim Ratcliffe seems to be flavour of the month with Labour. The tax incentives for closing Grangemouth, the £600m loan guarantee for Antwerp, the involvement in the Forth Green Freeport which includes the very same refinery he's closing and converting to storage and now today Rachel fae accounts gives him the go ahead for a new Old Trafford. A cynic would think he had something on someone in Labour :dunno:

[Ozyhibby]

Jim Ratcliffe seems to be flavour of the month with Labour. The tax incentives for closing Grangemouth, the £600m loan guarantee for Antwerp, the involvement in the Forth Green Freeport which includes the very same refinery he's closing and converting to storage and now today Rachel fae accounts gives him the go ahead for a new Old Trafford. A cynic would think he had something on someone in Labour :dunno:

He’ll have just given them a hefty donation. It’s how the system works.


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[Keith_M]

Recent Polls not looking good for Scottish Labour, regards upcoming elections.

Sadly Reform seem to be picking up in terms of voting intentions, with 1 in 8 expected to vote for them in the Holyrood elections, and 1 in 6 for Westminster.


https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24901699.herald-poll-imploding-labour-hand-snp-victory-2026/

[Ozyhibby]

Recent Polls not looking good for Scottish Labour, regards upcoming elections.

Sadly Reform seem to be picking up in terms of voting intentions, with 1 in 8 expected to vote for them in the Holyrood elections, and 1 in 6 for Westminster.


https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24901699.herald-poll-imploding-labour-hand-snp-victory-2026/

It’s hardly a surprise given how useless Labour have been at Westminster and how uninspiring Sarwar is. There is zero chance he has the personality to out perform his party.


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[grunt]

Cooper repeating Starmer's red lines re Brexit this morning. So disappointed in how Labour have turned out so far.

[Ozyhibby]

Cooper repeating Starmer's red lines re Brexit this morning. So disappointed in how Labour have turned out so far.

Frustrating. As an SNP supporter I should be happy except I have to live here and really don’t want another recession.
Swinney has done a good job steadying the ship for the SNP and improved relations with business but it’s mostly Labour performing terribly that has caused the biggest revival in the SNP’s fortunes.


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[Jack]

Recent Polls not looking good for Scottish Labour, regards upcoming elections.

Sadly Reform seem to be picking up in terms of voting intentions, with 1 in 8 expected to vote for them in the Holyrood elections, and 1 in 6 for Westminster.


https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/24901699.herald-poll-imploding-labour-hand-snp-victory-2026/

The longer the labour branch can keep Sawar in the cupboard the less damage will be inflicted. Even moreso with labour in England failing so miserably to match pre GE expectations so no-one in Scotland has to defend a raft of very unpopular policy decisions.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/uk-government-hoodwinking-public-over-gb-energy-says-swinney

GB energy. CEO said at least 20 years to get to 1000 staff and can't say when bills will come down!! 2 labour pledges.

[Hibrandenburg]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/uk-government-hoodwinking-public-over-gb-energy-says-swinney

GB energy. CEO said at least 20 years to get to 1000 staff and can't say when bills will come down!! 2 labour pledges.

It used to be that getting a UK Labour government was a short welcome respite from consecutive Tory plundering. Oh the good old days.

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/scotland/uk-government-hoodwinking-public-over-gb-energy-says-swinney

GB energy. CEO said at least 20 years to get to 1000 staff and can't say when bills will come down!! 2 labour pledges.

It was always an obvious lie but Sarwar will never be held to account by the Scottish media.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20250204/1d7aecafb47db1ad885f3f6efe2c3410.jpg

Sarwar lining up one of his ‘definitely not a coalition’ coalitions.


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[Ozyhibby]

Redundancy letters sent out today to all the workers at Grangemouth. Anas Sarwar is leaving it late on his promise to save the plant.
Or was he lying through his teeth?[emoji2369][emoji35]


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[Bostonhibby]

Redundancy letters sent out today to all the workers at Grangemouth. Anas Sarwar is leaving it late on his promise to save the plant.
Or was he lying through his teeth?[emoji2369][emoji35]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHe really is doing an abysmal job of running the branch office. Finding some common ground with Nasty Nige's grift party shouldn't be ruled out.

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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/feb/06/labour-launches-ads-in-reform-style-livery-to-boast-about-deportations?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky&CMP=bsky_gu

Labour adopting Reform branding.


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[grunt]

So very disappointed in Starmer's Labour.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Labour launches ads in Reform-style branding to boast about deportations | Labour | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/feb/06/labour-launches-ads-in-reform-style-livery-to-boast-about-deportations?fbclid=IwY2xjawISG6hleHRuA2FlbQIxMQAB Ha1COPGQJ5acyMRzX5WDBf8b21nvnUoFxBqtHIUxioyTtgb9lV yP6p8XfQ_aem_wGtPtliEiXjn0fd3ymj72w)

https://i.guim.co.uk/img/media/a9ee7d252a0d6efbb74656e09c03aa312d23495d/14_15_1045_804/master/1045.jpg?width=480&dpr=1&s=none&crop=none

shame on any socialists still in the new centre-right British Labour party

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.sky.com/story/andrew-gwynne-sacked-as-health-minister-over-comments-posted-on-internal-whatsapp-group-13305272

Did the govt really change last July?


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[cabbageandribs1875]

https://news.sky.com/story/andrew-gwynne-sacked-as-health-minister-over-comments-posted-on-internal-whatsapp-group-13305272

Did the govt really change last July?


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here he is with antivax grifter Dr Aseem Malhotra in 2023


https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GjSerzuWoAAvp9z?format=jpg&name=large

[cabbageandribs1875]

Councillor kicked out of Labour Party after Starmer attack - Birmingham Live (https://www.birminghammail.co.uk/black-country/councillor-kicked-out-labour-party-30958967?fbclid=IwY2xjawIUhh5leHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHQJn ZciVgnM9ukEDwpnpW-hZl4gV1cKzGoxlJyHSIzdbiVFhJ0EUpLRTKQ_aem_KjHH_BWlh 2aw0UgaIC0cpQ)

Dudley councillor pays a high price as Labour terminate his membership after he brands Sir Keir Starmer a liar who turned against the working classes

[JimBHibees]

It was always an obvious lie but Sarwar will never be held to account by the Scottish media.


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Indeed

[jamie_1875]

Indeed

Apart from here?

https://x.com/STVColin/status/1887509225204597041?t=yMw4w6SwynwjLpf220o9QQ&s=19


Pretty comprehensive in holding him to account for things he has said from the Scottish media?

[Ozyhibby]

Apart from here?

https://x.com/STVColin/status/1887509225204597041?t=yMw4w6SwynwjLpf220o9QQ&s=19


Pretty comprehensive in holding him to account for things he has said from the Scottish media?

Colin Mackay is one of Scotlands best political interviewers to be fair. STV is also best for Scottish news.
The BBC would never have done that.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,anas-sarwar-labour-government-would-keep-free-tuition-and-scottish-child-payment

Why would anyone believe him after the betrayal of Grangemouth. If Labour win the tuition fees will be brought in. Sarwar is a proven liar.


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[jamie_1875]

https://www.holyrood.com/news/view,anas-sarwar-labour-government-would-keep-free-tuition-and-scottish-child-payment

Why would anyone believe him after the betrayal of Grangemouth. If Labour win the tuition fees will be brought in. Sarwar is a proven liar.


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I think you need to define what you mean by a lie. He wanted to save Grangemouth and yes he did say Labour would save the jobs and it's not happening. It was his wish and desire at the time but at the time of saying it was it a lie? Yes it's proven not to be true but do you believe at that time he said it he knew he was lying? How would you know he was lying at the time?

There are plenty of cases of politicians saying one thing and then it doesn't happen, doesn't make them liars. If it does all politicians are proven liars (which could be true) for example Nicola Sturgeon "I will lead Scotland to Independence" a lie or her valid opinion at the time?

[Andy Bee]

I think you need to define what you mean by a lie. He wanted to save Grangemouth and yes he did say Labour would save the jobs and it's not happening. It was his wish and desire at the time but at the time of saying it was it a lie? Yes it's proven not to be true but do you believe at that time he said it he knew he was lying? How would you know he was lying at the time?

There are plenty of cases of politicians saying one thing and then it doesn't happen, doesn't make them liars. If it does all politicians are proven liars (which could be true) for example Nicola Sturgeon "I will lead Scotland to Independence" a lie or her valid opinion at the time?

Lol that's a shoogly defence, so at the time he lied he didn't know he was lying so it's all good. What about when he said GB Energy was an "energy generation company" or the time he also supported a Scottish Visa system and has been found out for not even contacting anybody in his main party about it? Taking your defence seriously for one second, for him to say they'd save the Grangemouth jobs he'd have had to have had assurances from Starmer so I'd say that's even worse and shows the contempt Starmer has for Scotland and his supposedly Scottish party leader, he's a patsy.

[Ozyhibby]

I think you need to define what you mean by a lie. He wanted to save Grangemouth and yes he did say Labour would save the jobs and it's not happening. It was his wish and desire at the time but at the time of saying it was it a lie? Yes it's proven not to be true but do you believe at that time he said it he knew he was lying? How would you know he was lying at the time?

There are plenty of cases of politicians saying one thing and then it doesn't happen, doesn't make them liars. If it does all politicians are proven liars (which could be true) for example Nicola Sturgeon "I will lead Scotland to Independence" a lie or her valid opinion at the time?

Has Sarwar made any moves that made you think he’s is doing anything at all to save Grangemouth? That would maybe help your case?


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[jamie_1875]

Has Sarwar made any moves that made you think he’s is doing anything at all to save Grangemouth? That would maybe help your case?


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I don't have insight into the workings of the UK Government I am afraid. Who knows what they have done. I am just saying at the time of saying it I don't think is was an outright lie and he knew he was lying and was thinking this is a lie but I will say it anyway. If so then you can accuse all politicians of doing the same when whatever they say will happen doesn't then happen to take place.

[jamie_1875]

Lol that's a shoogly defence, so at the time he lied he didn't know he was lying so it's all good. What about when he said GB Energy was an "energy generation company" or the time he also supported a Scottish Visa system and has been found out for not even contacting anybody in his main party about it? Taking your defence seriously for one second, for him to say they'd save the Grangemouth jobs he'd have had to have had assurances from Starmer so I'd say that's even worse and shows the contempt Starmer has for Scotland and his supposedly Scottish party leader, he's a patsy.

I just don't think at the time he said it he knew he was lying, it was his opinion and desire at the time. As for the others I am not sure as I don't know the details. Isn't the jury still out on GB Energy?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/oct/16/gb-energy-can-become-a-major-power-generator-says-its-chief-executive

"Britain’s new national energy company will eventually become a major power generator, running its own windfarms, tidal power and carbon capture schemes and potentially borrowing its own money, according to its new chair."

[Ozyhibby]

I don't have insight into the workings of the UK Government I am afraid. Who knows what they have done. I am just saying at the time of saying it I don't think is was an outright lie and he knew he was lying and was thinking this is a lie but I will say it anyway. If so then you can accuse all politicians of doing the same when whatever they say will happen doesn't then happen to take place.

When you say something that’s untrue surely it’s on Sarwar to show it’s not a lie?
Let’s face it, he lied through his teeth to get votes. He never cared one bit about the workers at Grangemouth. I doubt he even asked Starmer about saving the jobs.
Instead, Labour is giving Ineos £600m for a plant in Belgium. Shows where their priorities are.


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[jamie_1875]

When you say something that’s untrue surely it’s on Sarwar to show it’s not a lie?
Let’s face it, he lied through his teeth to get votes. He never cared one bit about the workers at Grangemouth. I doubt he even asked Starmer about saving the jobs.
Instead, Labour is giving Ineos £600m for a plant in Belgium. Shows where their priorities are.


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So when he said it how do you know it was untrue?

[Ozyhibby]

So when he said it how do you know it was untrue?

It’s been proven to be untrue. He hasn’t lifted a finger for Grangemouth. He lied.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

bare-faced lying runts, Starmer has said more than once he wants scotland brought into line with england, Sarwar won't get his ermine by defying him

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/476823728_9257692600954155_3744301893312589187_n.j pg?_nc_cat=108&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=8cWIlmBzFUIQ7kNvgF-jbwh&_nc_oc=Adg3wxKNqFpIjyJloUbrmDAbVg-rRv5J4xeKw_adISU301I3GSEA-HdQLZ9KWxo1rYI&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&_nc_gid=AFTLR-AyKY96SgZL3LFyVJm&oh=00_AYAvHCIoFi1bjL1IUvDxdSE6xEIy8wx9ca504ejTB2oe 9A&oe=67B03596


a new direction lol

[jamie_1875]

It’s been proven to be untrue. He hasn’t lifted a finger for Grangemouth. He lied.


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Yes but on the day he said it how could you prove it was untrue, that's the point. Unless you had a time machine?

Like the example I used, did Nicola Sturgeon lead Scotland to Independence? No, so by the same logic she is a proven liar. Now I don't think she is on that as when she said it at the time I think she believed it to be true.

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/business/nils-pratley-on-finance/2025/feb/10/drax-is-the-subsidy-show-that-goes-on-and-on?utm_source=dlvr.it&utm_medium=bluesky&CMP=bsky_gu

Nothing for Grangemouth but £billions for Drax power plant in England. Priorities.[emoji106]


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[Jack]

Despite French firm EDF’s assurances Sizewell would be a carbon copy of the ongoing Hinkley Point C project, and that major savings in time and cost would result accordingly, it has persuaded ministers that £8bn of public money is required up front merely to help it reach a Sizewell decision.

Meanwhile, French auditors advise against proceeding with Sizewell until Hinkley’s issues are resolved. With Hinkley over budget and EDF seeking additional funds, there are suspicions some "Sizewell" money is being redirected.

As Labour backtracks on binding green targets and prioritises economic growth, calls are growing for Ed Miliband to freeze further Sizewell funding until EDF commits.

[Moulin Yarns]

I just don't think at the time he said it he knew he was lying, it was his opinion and desire at the time. As for the others I am not sure as I don't know the details. Isn't the jury still out on GB Energy?

https://www.theguardian.com/business/2024/oct/16/gb-energy-can-become-a-major-power-generator-says-its-chief-executive

"Britain’s new national energy company will eventually become a major power generator, running its own windfarms, tidal power and carbon capture schemes and potentially borrowing its own money, according to its new chair."

https://news.sky.com/story/keir-starmers-1-000-jobs-pledge-could-take-20-years-gb-energy-boss-admits-13302168


Farcical!!!!

[grunt]

So when he said it how do you know it was untrue?He said "we would step in to save the jobs at the refinery. We would put hundreds of millions of pounds behind it to make it a reality". He hasn't. Labour hasn't. He lied. Labour lied.

That's how you know it was untrue.

[jamie_1875]

He said "we would step in to save the jobs at the refinery. We would put hundreds of millions of pounds behind it to make it a reality". He hasn't. Labour hasn't. He lied. Labour lied.

That's how you know it was untrue.

I mean I can repeat myself again but would rather not.

But question...this is quote from Nicola Sturgeon on Brexit in a speech she did March 2017.

"By taking the steps I have set out today, I am ensuring that Scotland's future will be decided not just by me or the Scottish Government.

It will be decided by the people of Scotland.

It will be Scotland's choice."

Well the steps she took that day never resulted in anything at all, the people of Scotland never had any choice or further referendum. So she lied to everyone? Or when she said it in March 2017 she believed it to be true?

[Ozyhibby]

I mean I can repeat myself again but would rather not.

But question...this is quote from Nicola Sturgeon on Brexit in a speech she did March 2017.

"By taking the steps I have set out today, I am ensuring that Scotland's future will be decided not just by me or the Scottish Government.

It will be decided by the people of Scotland.

It will be Scotland's choice."

Well the steps she took that day never resulted in anything at all, the people of Scotland never had any choice or further referendum. So she lied to everyone? Or when she said it in March 2017 she believed it to be true?

She took steps. Interesting. What steps has Sarwar taken?
I see the Gas price has hit a two year high. Another Labour broken promise.

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[jamie_1875]

She took steps. Interesting. What steps has Sarwar taken?
I see the Gas price has hit a two year high. Another Labour broken promise.

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Well whatever steps she took resulted in absolutely nothing and nothing even close to what she was saying would happen. She lied then I guess.

I am not privy to the inner workings of the UK Government but going by media reports then he is "taking steps" in a similar way...

"However, he insisted his Labour colleagues in the UK government were "looking robustly" at how they can support the site, deliver a just transition and secure investment in the area."

"The Scottish Labour leader insisted there had been progress made to help workers. He cited Project Willow, a feasibility study on building a new, long-term industry at the refinery site."

He said he was putting his case "very forcefully" to Sir Keir and other Labour ministers.

"The MSP added: "Where we are right now there has been some progress, but nowhere near enough progress and I keep pressing that case."

Appreciate whatever I say makes no difference to some but just trying to get a point across I don't think it's a lie in the sense when he said it he knew it to be completely false. I don't think anyone could unless they had some kind of time machine.

[grunt]

I mean I can repeat myself again but would rather not.

But question...this is quote from Nicola Sturgeon on Brexit in a speech she did March 2017.

"By taking the steps I have set out today, I am ensuring that Scotland's future will be decided not just by me or the Scottish Government.

It will be decided by the people of Scotland.

It will be Scotland's choice."

Well the steps she took that day never resulted in anything at all, the people of Scotland never had any choice or further referendum. So she lied to everyone? Or when she said it in March 2017 she believed it to be true?
Are you really suggesting these two circumstances are the same?

In canvassing for the general election a Labour MP said he would do something if elected. He was elected. He didn't do it. He lied.

Sturgeon put in place a process to request a second Independence referendum from the UK Government. The UK Government denied her request. She wasn't lying, she was describing a process she would follow if allowed to. She wasn't allowed to. Is that a lie? I think not.

If you want to continue this ridiculous discussion - that Sarwar wasn't lying when he plainly was - you'll have to do it without me. I've got better things to do.

[jamie_1875]

Are you really suggesting these two circumstances are the same?

In canvassing for the general election a Labour MP said he would do something if elected. He was elected. He didn't do it. He lied.

Sturgeon put in place a process to request a second Independence referendum from the UK Government. The UK Government denied her request. She wasn't lying, she was describing a process she would follow if allowed to. She wasn't allowed to. Is that a lie? I think not.

If you want to continue this ridiculous discussion - that Sarwar wasn't lying when he plainly was - you'll have to do it without me. I've got better things to do.

Both said things at the time they believed to be true, both things never happened. We will just agree to disagree.

[Jack]

Both said things at the time they believed to be true, both things never happened. We will just agree to disagree.

Sarwar knew it was a private company when he made the promise to save the 400 jobs. So why is it now the excuse he can do nothing now?

[jamie_1875]

Sarwar knew it was a private company when he made the promise to save the 400 jobs. So why is it now the excuse he can do nothing now?

So was Ferguson's shipyard and Prestwick airport when they were "saved", didn't stop then from being taken over. I have read various reports that it is making a significant loss and then read it's still making a profit, I don't have the inner details. I still don't think on the day he said it he was deliberately lying thinking I am saying this knowing it's never ever going to happen, it was his wish and desire at the time. If we are using this logic then pretty much everything a politician says that then doesn't actually happen is a lie and they are proven liars. It's diminishes actual lies if we are now saying that suggesting a wish or desire for something that then doesn't happen makes people proven liars. Think I have repeated myself multiple times now so will leave it at that.

[lapsedhibee]

So was Ferguson's shipyard and Prestwick airport when they were "saved", didn't stop then from being taken over. I have read various reports that it is making a significant loss and then read it's still making a profit, I don't have the inner details. I still don't think on the day he said it he was deliberately lying thinking I am saying this knowing it's never ever going to happen, it was his wish and desire at the time. If we are using this logic then pretty much everything a politician says that then doesn't actually happen is a lie and they are proven liars. It's diminishes actual lies if we are now saying that suggesting a wish or desire for something that then doesn't happen makes people proven liars. Think I have repeated myself multiple times now so will leave it at that.

If all you're trying to say is that there's a difference between lying and failing to keep a promise, I agree with you. :faint:

[Ozyhibby]

He lied. Shamefully. And everyone at Grangemouth knows it.


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[Jack]

So was Ferguson's shipyard and Prestwick airport when they were "saved", didn't stop then from being taken over. I have read various reports that it is making a significant loss and then read it's still making a profit, I don't have the inner details. I still don't think on the day he said it he was deliberately lying thinking I am saying this knowing it's never ever going to happen, it was his wish and desire at the time. If we are using this logic then pretty much everything a politician says that then doesn't actually happen is a lie and they are proven liars. It's diminishes actual lies if we are now saying that suggesting a wish or desire for something that then doesn't happen makes people proven liars. Think I have repeated myself multiple times now so will leave it at that.

He knew when he first said that he and Labour would save the 400 jobs it was a private company. Was there any chance Labour nationalise in the same way as the other companies you mention? I would suggest not. I was never going to happen.

He said something that was untrue, that he knew to be untrue at the time. He lied.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Starmer thinks we don't notice It’s straight from the Trump playbook: Labour is tearing up the machinery of government | George Monbiot | The Guardian (https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2025/feb/11/donald-trump-labour-government?fbclid=IwY2xjawIYA9hleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHU WVdz3Ie51Vr2B76j_dHh06pc0Nhbw5kcepABad2O121hdrtwZw mb7ZHw_aem_6UcAB1iZfJqb0ARAywJKCw)

[grunt]

What is Starmer doing?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/feb/11/us-uk-paris-ai-summit-artificial-intelligence-declaration


US and UK refuse to sign Paris summit declaration on ‘inclusive’ AI

[lapsedhibee]

What is Starmer doing?

https://www.theguardian.com/technology/2025/feb/11/us-uk-paris-ai-summit-artificial-intelligence-declaration

Sucking up to Trump so he can maybe possibly get a better deal than Ireland on whisky? :dunno:

[Ozyhibby]

Sucking up to Trump so he can maybe possibly get a better deal than Ireland on whisky? :dunno:

What has happened to Ireland on Whisky?


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[lapsedhibee]

What has happened to Ireland on Whisky?



Nothing yet.

[Ozyhibby]

Nothing yet.

Hopefully we get the same deal as Ireland then.


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[grunt]

Hopefully we get the same deal as Ireland then.
We probably won't. Ireland will be negotiating as part of the EU - a much bigger prize, and consequently a better deal. The UK will negotiate alone and hence a worse deal, and let's face it, Starmer won't mind if Scotch Whisky is subject to high tariffs. Another of those fabled Brex*t Benefits.

[cabbageandribs1875]

they're getting more like Trump as each week passes :agree:

Anas Sarwar threatens to circulate league table of under-performing Scottish Labour colleagues - Daily Record (https://archive.ph/6KGfl#selection-591.0-633.26)

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/476888426_9262376613819087_7543961176026080748_n.j pg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=cMMftM8vDpoQ7kNvgFhu36F&_nc_oc=AdjYG7QoSgk3OBVfmQtx-4j4I4p4zrRLK4CTZEeoHpSi-5yNXQvjXqgBxGP9tf97hFg&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=A0Io73VXPXr7qQi8lxhW4CE&oh=00_AYDNlBXb2Lp0AeJDlNjwou-C-e3_hbI-U9nscmW4io60nA&oe=67B190E4

[Ozyhibby]

they're getting more like Trump as each week passes :agree:

Anas Sarwar threatens to circulate league table of under-performing Scottish Labour colleagues - Daily Record (https://archive.ph/6KGfl#selection-591.0-633.26)

https://scontent.fman1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/476888426_9262376613819087_7543961176026080748_n.j pg?_nc_cat=105&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=aa7b47&_nc_ohc=cMMftM8vDpoQ7kNvgFhu36F&_nc_oc=AdjYG7QoSgk3OBVfmQtx-4j4I4p4zrRLK4CTZEeoHpSi-5yNXQvjXqgBxGP9tf97hFg&_nc_zt=23&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-2.fna&_nc_gid=A0Io73VXPXr7qQi8lxhW4CE&oh=00_AYDNlBXb2Lp0AeJDlNjwou-C-e3_hbI-U9nscmW4io60nA&oe=67B190E4

To be fair to his MSP’s and MP’s, they could end up looking foolish when it turns out Sarwar was lying all along. Best not to be involved.[emoji106]


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[cabbageandribs1875]

and this is what BLiS agents have won for selling out workers at Grangemouth, GTF RATcliffe/Ian Murray and every other BLiS agent, s**m

Labour get 'season ticket' for backing Man U over Scottish workers | The National (https://www.thenational.scot/news/24932901.labour-get-season-ticket-backing-man-u-scottish-workers/?fbclid=IwY2xjawIa93ZleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHbNQzpTibTwK 8MyuvRZxAnJ97P1pbKPbOl_BLMRFmpvLx10rhpvNKi62Mw_aem _Jaxs3btFTjQLyTW1tZg6Bg)



and just like little Sarwar warned his Branch party members, little Donald Starmer has warned British Labour politicians not to criticise his poxy party Labour 'ban MPs from criticising Government in public' | The National (https://www.thenational.scot/news/24930186.labour-ban-mps-criticising-government-public/?fbclid=IwY2xjawIZjYRleHRuA2FlbQIxMQABHZmdrglExtYf 9KeFO-5K-feNWvF57a7SqcnldWKyGFx6XWCcWhDzuQriIg_aem_mm32qZMv buAGmUoTdViXgQ)

[cabbageandribs1875]

the "nasty" party sounds about right and so does reform-lite, British Labour have by-passed the original Conservative party and getting more like the Farage lot :agree: Analysis: Is Labour turning into the nasty party? | The Independent (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-immigration-migrants-raids-small-boats-b2696854.html?fbclid=IwY2xjawIa_JtleHRuA2FlbQIxMQA BHcvQ0Xwi4xO9cclCacvRtQSpNAdTi_s8DSh4zITyvBDP8QEmG NOP9uiOlQ_aem_B4wwdyktD5xK-QqMr1WxnA)