The future of the Labour Party

[Jones28]

Vote for this Labour candidate in Livingston ...

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_Umn9pXoAAqBrM?format=jpg&name=900x900

I can't get my head around that. So she's a pro-union Catholic who doesn't trust the SNP to stand up to religious bigotry, but is unphased by the idea of the UK Government...

A deeply confused woman.

[grunt]

I can't get my head around that. So she's a pro-union Catholic who doesn't trust the SNP to stand up to religious bigotry, but is unphased by the idea of the UK Government...

A deeply confused woman.Perhaps the time of posting 1:28am had something to do with her confusion?
:cheers:

[JimBHibees]

This is a disgrace. Imagine living in a country you hate. I’m of Irish Catholic ancestry and have voted SNP since Labour refused to support non payment of the poll tax. Shame on McConnell.

Or Scots in general seems a very odd thing to say. Simply wow. She doesn't trust Scots but would trust the UK government.

[grunt]

Hahahahaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/F_qBt3vWcAAMdNf?format=jpg&name=medium

[cabbageandribs1875]

Labour peer Alistair Darling has died, 70

Former Labour chancellor Alistair Darling dies aged 70 | The National (https://www.thenational.scot/news/23959109.former-labour-chancellor-alistair-darling-dies-aged-70/?ref=ebbn&nid=1457&u=8c7cbcbaa1741d7cbc339fe13eff0274&date=301123)

[neil7908]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/02/keir-starmer-praises-margaret-thatcher-for-bringing-meaningful-change-to-uk

Are Labour supporters still saying this guy is playing 4D chess and isn't a Tory?

Margaret Thatcher is the complete opposite of what the Labour Party exists for.

This man is a disgrace. The right have won.

[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/02/keir-starmer-praises-margaret-thatcher-for-bringing-meaningful-change-to-uk

Are Labour supporters still saying this guy is playing 4D chess and isn't a Tory?

Margaret Thatcher is the complete opposite of what the Labour Party exists for.

This man is a disgrace. The right have won.

Think I'll say they the same the last time the idiot praised her or quoted her i think actually. Some on here said he wasn't praising her or downplaying her evil, he was just highlighting one of the things she did right.

I said you don't use a platform to talk about Hitler being a decent painter or quoting some wise words of Pinochet

[JimBHibees]

https://www.google.com/amp/s/amp.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/02/keir-starmer-praises-margaret-thatcher-for-bringing-meaningful-change-to-uk

Are Labour supporters still saying this guy is playing 4D chess and isn't a Tory?

Margaret Thatcher is the complete opposite of what the Labour Party exists for.

This man is a disgrace. The right have won.

Absolutely incredible included in his Telegragh article was an appeal to Tory voters that their party was moving away from them. How ironic

[Ozyhibby]

Think I'll say they the same the last time the idiot praised her or quoted her i think actually. Some on here said he wasn't praising her or downplaying her evil, he was just highlighting one of the things she did right.

I said you don't use a platform to talk about Hitler being a decent painter or quoting some wise words of Pinochet

He’s is going to be PM and if he’s modelling himself on Thatcher then it’s not going to be good for Scotland but then when did we last have a PM that was good for Scotland?


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[Ozyhibby]

https://news.sky.com/story/keir-starmers-economic-plan-risks-him-looking-more-like-a-cameron-tribute-act-than-an-heir-to-blair-13022984

More Cameron than Blair.


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[Ozyhibby]

All very jovial from Starmer today at PMQ’s. Meanwhile the genocide in Gaza that he supports continues.


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[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/eddie-izzard-loses-bid-to-become-labour-candidate-in-brighton

Tom Gray of Gomez to stand for Labour in Brighton Pavilion. Looks like they dodged a bullet.

[overdrive]

Scott Arthur, the reason why I cancelled my Labour Party membership, has been selected as the Labour candidate for my constituency, Edinburgh South West. They’ve just lost my vote as well as my membership!

[Pretty Boy]

Scott Arthur, the reason why I cancelled my Labour Party membership, has been selected as the Labour candidate for my constituency, Edinburgh South West. They’ve just lost my vote as well as my membership!

He was practically begging for selection on Twitter last week along with the obligatory selfie.

I actually think he has had some good ideas (and a few stinkers admittedly) but he's a hard man to take to.

[JimBHibees]

Scott Arthur, the reason why I cancelled my Labour Party membership, has been selected as the Labour candidate for my constituency, Edinburgh South West. They’ve just lost my vote as well as my membership!

Who he?

[cabbageandribs1875]

well done those pointing out that Starmer/Streeting are indeed Tories, you want a Tory Government ? vote LABOUR:agree: Labour councillors resign over 'right-wing rhetoric' and 'mirroring' of Tories | The National (https://www.thenational.scot/news/23992567.labour-councillors-resign-right-wing-rhetoric-mirroring-tories/?fbclid=IwAR3bhg18HNo3S_gIdTagBtgcu6XfSmTknYEDJNRy q5eJ-dBiWYX-Gie5orU#comments-anchor)

SEVERAL Labour (https://www.thenational.scot/politics/labour/) councillors have resigned their whip over the party's increasingly "right-wing rhetoric", spelling more trouble for Keir Starmer.
Six councillors from Hastings Borough Council, including the council’s leader and deputy leader, announced their resignations from the Labour Party on Friday to form an independent group, saying Labour “no longer provides us with the policies, the support or the focus on local government that we need”.
The councillors cited the Labour Party’s policy on Gaza, a lack of support for workers, and the party’s increasing use of right-wing rhetoric, as reasons for leaving.


labour/Conservatives, twa cheeks off the same bum :agree:

[Ozyhibby]

well done those pointing out that Starmer/Streeting are indeed Tories, you want a Tory Government ? vote LABOUR:agree: Labour councillors resign over 'right-wing rhetoric' and 'mirroring' of Tories | The National (https://www.thenational.scot/news/23992567.labour-councillors-resign-right-wing-rhetoric-mirroring-tories/?fbclid=IwAR3bhg18HNo3S_gIdTagBtgcu6XfSmTknYEDJNRy q5eJ-dBiWYX-Gie5orU#comments-anchor)

SEVERAL Labour (https://www.thenational.scot/politics/labour/) councillors have resigned their whip over the party's increasingly "right-wing rhetoric", spelling more trouble for Keir Starmer.
Six councillors from Hastings Borough Council, including the council’s leader and deputy leader, announced their resignations from the Labour Party on Friday to form an independent group, saying Labour “no longer provides us with the policies, the support or the focus on local government that we need”.
The councillors cited the Labour Party’s policy on Gaza, a lack of support for workers, and the party’s increasing use of right-wing rhetoric, as reasons for leaving.


labour/Conservatives, twa cheeks off the same bum :agree:



Their opposition to progressive income tax in Scotland shows how far right they have moved recently. They used to be in favour of higher taxes for the top 5% of earners.


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[grunt]

Labour MSP changes his mind overnight. No one notices or points it out.

https://x.com/msm_monitor/status/1737403841434268015?s=20

Last night when interviewed on Drivetime, Labour MSP Michael Marra was in favour of taxing high earners more. This morning when interviewed on Good Morning Scotland he wasn't.

[grunt]

Starmer calling for a ceasefire today. Why didn't he support SNP vote for a ceasefire weeks ago?

[degenerated]

He was practically begging for selection on Twitter last week along with the obligatory selfie.

I actually think he has had some good ideas (and a few stinkers admittedly) but he's a hard man to take to.He came across as a complete roaster during the independence referendum. He seemed to be on every TV and radio debate and was always shouting, finger pointing and frothing at the mouth.

His snide racist dig at yousaf a few years back make him pretty loathsome as well.

[Keith_M]

Starmer calling for a ceasefire today. Why didn't he support SNP vote for a ceasefire weeks ago?


Politics before humanity?


Same kind of principles as this, I suppose.

Keir Starmer considers scaling back Labour’s £28bn green plans

(https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/22/keir-starmer-considers-scaling-back-labour-28bn-pounds-green-plans)

[weecounty hibby]

Politics before humanity?


Same kind of principles as this, I suppose.

Keir Starmer considers scaling back Labour’s £28bn green plans

(https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2023/dec/22/keir-starmer-considers-scaling-back-labour-28bn-pounds-green-plans)
Surely no one is surprised at that but I'm sure someone will be along shortly to tell us that it's all about getting into No10 and then they will implementing all the policies that they have promised. Honest guv.

[Stairway 2 7]

Starmer calling for a ceasefire today. Why didn't he support SNP vote for a ceasefire weeks ago?

Just read Starmer’s statement. He says a ceasefire if Hamas release all the hostages and agree to not being the future leaders of gaza and in return Israel to agree to stop the bombing and open the borders to all aid. Very different to just a ceasefire and let Hamas continue with their actions and hostages

Seems reasonable but obviously won't happen as the bams on both sides don't want to stop.

[Ozyhibby]

Just read Starmer’s statement. He says a ceasefire if Hamas release all the hostages and agree to not being the future leaders of gaza and in return Israel to agree to stop the bombing and open the borders to all aid. Very different to just a ceasefire and let Hamas continue with their actions and hostages

Seems reasonable but obviously won't happen as the bams on both sides don't want to stop.

Like calling for a ceasefire in Ukraine and for Putin to step down and all Russians to go home. Nice one Keir. Why hasn’t anyone else thought of that?


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[ardecos]

Scott Arthur, the reason why I cancelled my Labour Party membership, has been selected as the Labour candidate for my constituency, Edinburgh South West. They’ve just lost my vote as well as my membership!

I don't think Joanna Cherry will be quaking in her boots.

[MKHIBEE]

Like calling for a ceasefire in Ukraine and for Putin to step down and all Russians to go home. Nice one Keir. Why hasn’t anyone else thought of that?


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Starmer trying to get us to believe he has an answer when, in reality, he knows there is absolutely no chance of that happening. Wind and piss.

[Stairway 2 7]

.
Starmer trying to get us to believe he has an answer when, in reality, he knows there is absolutely no chance of that happening. Wind and piss.

His proposal has zero chance of happening, a full ceasefire has zero chance of happening, it's all deflection and grandstanding from the politicians

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231226/14c4f48a14dfd970ad162a5e32409cc8.jpg

Rwanda mark 2.


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[Moulin Yarns]

Santa brought me a coaster that says


It would be nice if the leader of the opposition actually opposed

[grunt]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20231226/14c4f48a14dfd970ad162a5e32409cc8.jpg

Rwanda mark 2.

I'm not sure that's entirely fair. Isn't this just the offshoring of the processing of asylum claims?

[cabbageandribs1875]

yi just have tae laff, eh

Labour MP charges taxpayers for equality course after racial incident | The National (https://www.thenational.scot/news/24009880.labour-mp-charges-taxpayers-equality-course-racial-incident/?ref=fbshr&fbclid=IwAR3YD1_FTWwIAHJQf7PdVmxB4FzMfmykvTe-8CPWSi2uSo-JgLxjFcqq57o#comments-anchor)

A LABOUR MP who was suspended after using “abusive language with racial overtones” towards a journalist went on to charge taxpayers for equality training.
Neil Coyle, who rejoined Keir Starmer’s party after having the whip restored earlier this year, claimed £295 in expenses for the course, as first reported by The Independent. (https://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/labour-mp-neil-coyle-racism-expenses-b2466521.html)

The MP for Bermondsey and Old Southwark was suspended from Labour (https://www.thenational.scot/politics/labour/) last year following an incident in a Commons (https://www.thenational.scot/politics/westminster/) bar during which he was said to have made Sinophobic comments towards political journalist Henry Dyer.
Coyle went on to put an equality training course in January 2023 on expenses, it has emerged.

[Keith_M]

I realise it isn't strictly the future of the Labour Party. but... it's interesting to find out that Blair's Government had considered a Rwanda style plan for immigrants around 20 years ago.

Apparently they thought it was a good idea to dump them on Mull*, before shipping them off to Turkey, Kenya or South Africa
https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/dec/29/tony-blair-rwanda-style-asylum-plan-2003



*Why are those people so obsessed with Scottish Islands?

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/02/champagne-worth-90000-bought-in-house-of-lords-last-year-foi-data-shows?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1704174489

This won’t happen in the future because Labour are getting rid of the House of Lords? Right?


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[Pretty Boy]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/jan/02/champagne-worth-90000-bought-in-house-of-lords-last-year-foi-data-shows?utm_term=Autofeed&CMP=twt_gu&utm_medium&utm_source=Twitter#Echobox=1704174489

This won’t happen in the future because Labour are getting rid of the House of Lords? Right?


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It makes a good headline but when you read the content and the response at the bottom of the article it seems a bit of a nothing story really. The figure includes bottles sold in the gift shop and those sold at private functions. I'm not sure what political gain there is in this kind of petty **** stirring and implying something different, there is enough criticisms to be made of the HoL in it's current format without making stuff up. It's the equivalent of me claiming Hibs board members drank 50000 hot drinks over the course of a season and then adding the small print that I included the drinks sold to punters at the kiosk on match day. I suppose the hope is that people just read the headline and the first couple of paragraphs then get bored.

[Ozyhibby]

It makes a good headline but when you read the content and the response at the bottom of the article it seems a bit of a nothing story really. The figure includes bottles sold in the gift shop and those sold at private functions. I'm not sure what political gain there is in this kind of petty **** stirring and implying something different, there is enough criticisms to be made of the HoL in it's current format without making stuff up. It's the equivalent of me claiming Hibs board members drank 50000 hot drinks over the course of a season and then adding the small print that I included the drinks sold to punters at the kiosk on match day. I suppose the hope is that people just read the headline and the first couple of paragraphs then get bored.

Doesn’t matter anyway because it’s being abolished.


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[Pretty Boy]

Apologies for the below link:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/25290381/sir-keir-starmer-free-lawyer-save-baby-murderers/

I don't particularly care for Starmer but this is a disgrace from The Sun (another one to add to the long list). If this is the puerile nature of the 'debate' we are going to be subjected to in the run up to a general election then God help us all.

[Stairway 2 7]

Apologies for the below link:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/25290381/sir-keir-starmer-free-lawyer-save-baby-murderers/

I don't particularly care for Starmer but this is a disgrace from The Sun (another one to add to the long list). If this is the puerile nature of the 'debate' we are going to be subjected to in the run up to a general election then God help us all.

Jesus they really are ****

[lapsedhibee]

If this is the puerile nature of the 'debate' we are going to be subjected to in the run up to a general election then God help us all.
With Gullis and Anderson such prominent spokespricks for them, the current Tory party take on pretty much everything is puerile anyway, election or not. Definitely expect them and their abetters to strain every sinew ramping up their nonsense as the year goes on though.

[MKHIBEE]

Apologies for the below link:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/25290381/sir-keir-starmer-free-lawyer-save-baby-murderers/

I don't particularly care for Starmer but this is a disgrace from The Sun (another one to add to the long list). If this is the puerile nature of the 'debate' we are going to be subjected to in the run up to a general election then God help us all.
Expect the tone of the anti Starmer debate to sink to the level of, I don’t know, Starmer’s anti Corbyn diatribe

[neil7908]

Apologies for the below link:

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/25290381/sir-keir-starmer-free-lawyer-save-baby-murderers/

I don't particularly care for Starmer but this is a disgrace from The Sun (another one to add to the long list). If this is the puerile nature of the 'debate' we are going to be subjected to in the run up to a general election then God help us all.

Definitely not a Starmer fan but this is sick. The Sun are an absolute disgrace to this country and shouldn't be able to print such *****.

[Keith_M]

Expect the tone of the anti Starmer debate to sink to the level of, I don’t know, Starmer’s anti Corbyn diatribe


You have to wonder what's next... constant claims of anti-semitism maybe?

[MKHIBEE]

You have to wonder what's next... constant claims of anti-semitism maybe?

Please let that happen, even if it is made up

[Stairway 2 7]

Whataboutery helps the Sun. Saying Starmer was just as bad let's one of the UKs leading newspapers away with these horrible crap. Starmer is an idiot but this is disgusting and from the paper that hasn't changed since it said Liverpool fans pissed on their dying friends. A tory rag

[MKHIBEE]

Whataboutery helps the Sun. Saying Starmer was just as bad let's one of the UKs leading newspapers away with these horrible crap. Starmer is an idiot but this is disgusting and from the paper that hasn't changed since it said Liverpool fans pissed on their dying friends. A tory rag
Starmer is well versed in the art of “disgusting”. Short of physical harm to him I’m not bothered what he has to contend with personally

[Stairway 2 7]

If you don't complain when the press do crap like this to people you dislike then you have no right to complain when they do it to someone you respect. I'd be the same if they did it to Sunak. It's gutter journalism from the bams that hacked dead girls phones, if only the UK treated it like the Liverpudlians

[marinello59]

Whataboutery helps the Sun. Saying Starmer was just as bad let's one of the UKs leading newspapers away with these horrible crap. Starmer is an idiot but this is disgusting and from the paper that hasn't changed since it said Liverpool fans pissed on their dying friends. A tory rag


If you don't complain when the press do crap like this to people you dislike then you have no right to complain when they do it to someone you respect. I'd be the same if they did it to Sunak. It's gutter journalism from the bams that hacked dead girls phones, if only the UK treated it like the Liverpudlians

:agree:

[MKHIBEE]

If you don't complain when the press do crap like this to people you dislike then you have no right to complain when they do it to someone you respect. I'd be the same if they did it to Sunak. It's gutter journalism from the bams that hacked dead girls phones, if only the UK treated it like the Liverpudlians

If you are prepared to use lies and questionable practices to achieve your aims then don’t be surprised when those attitudes are used against you ( obviously not you personally). Starmer is a lying snake, he deserves to be treated as such. I will complain about whoever, and whatever, I want. There are many I have no time for who I think are treated abominably by the press as well as many I respect. It’s not up to you to decide what I have the right to do or not to do.

[Stairway 2 7]

If you are prepared to use lies and questionable practices to achieve your aims then don’t be surprised when those attitudes are used against you ( obviously not you personally). Starmer is a lying snake, he deserves to be treated as such. I will complain about whoever, and whatever, I want. There are many I have no time for who I think are treated abominably by the press as well as many I respect. It’s not up to you to decide what I have the right to do or not to do.
Calm down with the don't tell me what to do chat. It's a message board for debate, your opinion is yours I wouldn't try or think I could change it, I will give my opinion mind.

I've pretty much said my opinion. I think this type of journalism is vile and from other places I'm reading most think the same and that tory toad Harry Cole is getting slated for it. If it was a article on the tories I'd say the same and have. There is enough ammo to slam our politicians without letting lies slide.

[Bostonhibby]

If you don't complain when the press do crap like this to people you dislike then you have no right to complain when they do it to someone you respect. I'd be the same if they did it to Sunak. It's gutter journalism from the bams that hacked dead girls phones, if only the UK treated it like the Liverpudlians[emoji106]agree completely.



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[McD]

If you are prepared to use lies and questionable practices to achieve your aims then don’t be surprised when those attitudes are used against you ( obviously not you personally). Starmer is a lying snake, he deserves to be treated as such. I will complain about whoever, and whatever, I want. There are many I have no time for who I think are treated abominably by the press as well as many I respect. It’s not up to you to decide what I have the right to do or not to do.



Think you’ve mistaken the word ‘you’ as being directly at you personally, rather than the general/collective use of ‘you’.

A bit like the ‘if you want entertainment, go to the cinema’ comment, it wasn’t directed at a specific person in the crowd.

[MKHIBEE]

Think you’ve mistaken the word ‘you’ as being directly at you personally, rather than the general/collective use of ‘you’.

A bit like the ‘if you want entertainment, go to the cinema’ comment, it wasn’t directed at a specific person in the crowd.
That’s not the impression his post gave. He expressed his opinion, I expressed mine. That’s what happens on message boards

[McD]

That’s not the impression his post gave. He expressed his opinion, I expressed mine. That’s what happens on message boards


It’s the impression it gave me.

You then went on a rant about his opinion. I expressed my opinion to your reply and the impression your post gave. That’s what happens on message boards too.

[Stairway 2 7]

It’s the impression it gave me.

You then went on a rant about his opinion. I expressed my opinion to your reply and the impression your post gave. That’s what happens on message boards too.

Yeah I was meaning in my opinion "you" as in people in general, can't allow the gutter press to tell lies about people you dislike and still call themselves legitimate press.

It's bizarre to me that so many people still read The Sun after constant scandals and lies being exposed. Another thing is I thought they usually jumped ship to support who they think will win, like Blair in 97 and the SNP in the Scottish version a decade ago. They seem to be still pro Tory.

[MKHIBEE]

It’s the impression it gave me.

You then went on a rant about his opinion. I expressed my opinion to your reply and the impression your post gave. That’s what happens on message boards too.

Fair enough.

[MKHIBEE]

Yeah I was meaning in my opinion "you" as in people in general, can't allow the gutter press to tell lies about people you dislike and still call themselves legitimate press.

It's bizarre to me that so many people still read The Sun after constant scandals and lies being exposed. Another thing is I thought they usually jumped ship to support who they think will win, like Blair in 97 and the SNP in the Scottish version a decade ago. They seem to be still pro Tory.


It depends who Murdoch thinks will benefit him the most

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/alexnunns/status/1745584406230630874?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Another Starmer u-turn?


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/alexnunns/status/1745584406230630874?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Another Starmer u-turn?


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The two aren't mutually exclusive. He could want to change it but at the same time accept the PMs right to do this as its law.

I'd like to see the law change for troops on the ground but not for strikes against terrorists attacking civilians where you may need speed, personally

[marinello59]

The two aren't mutually exclusive. He could want to change it but at the same time accept the PMs right to do this as its law.

I'd like to see the law change for troops on the ground but not for strikes against terrorists attacking civilians where you may need speed, personally

Correct.
In an ideal world you got to Parliament first but sometimes operational issues mean you can’t. I don’t like it but that’s the reality our elected leaders have to deal with.

[grunt]

I'd like to see the law change for troops on the ground but not for strikes against terrorists attacking civilians where you may need speed, personally


In an ideal world you got to Parliament first but sometimes operational issues mean you can’t.
All this bollocks about recalling Parliament. With today's technology, MPs could convene online in a matter of hours. It's just the antediluvian Westminster traditions that get in the way of effective government.

[Ozyhibby]

The two aren't mutually exclusive. He could want to change it but at the same time accept the PMs right to do this as its law.

I'd like to see the law change for troops on the ground but not for strikes against terrorists attacking civilians where you may need speed, personally

Has he asked for a recall of parliament now?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Has he asked for a recall of parliament now?


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There shouldn't be one and doesn't need to be one. Yesterday afternoon when there was talk of intervention satellite imagery showed Houthis moving equipment. This isn't a war its targeted strikes to open up a shipping lane. Its the navies job to police the ocean. It was strikes against radar stations and missile launch sites, not much to be discussed.

[grunt]

There shouldn't be one and doesn't need to be one. Yesterday afternoon when there was talk of intervention satellite imagery showed Houthis moving equipment. This isn't a war its targeted strikes to open up a shipping lane. It's the navies job to police the ocean. It was strikes against radar stations and missile launch sites, not much to be discussed.
Is this a UN sanctioned strike?

[Stairway 2 7]

Is this a UN sanctioned strike?

It doesn't have to be just like UN didn't sanction Ukraines strikes to open the black sea.

It is a wide coalition who have now agreed to keep the red sea open US, UK, Germany, India, Canada, Australia, France, Denmark, Italy, Norway, Denmark, Spain and others.

Indian special forces retook a merchant ship and Denmarks pm has said they will help strike if this doesn't stop the attacks, Mearsk is Danish

[MKHIBEE]

It doesn't have to be just like UN didn't sanction Ukraines strikes to open the black sea.

It is a wide coalition who have now agreed to keep the red sea open US, UK, Germany, India, Canada, Australia, France, Denmark, Italy, Norway, Denmark, Spain and others.

Indian special forces retook a merchant ship and Denmarks pm has said they will help strike if this doesn't stop the attacks, Mearsk is Danish

Surely the UN cannot sanction the actions of a non member?

[Stairway 2 7]

Surely the UN cannot sanction the actions of a non member?

Who do you mean, Ukraine is a member. Regardless UN doesn't need to sanction policing missions like this

[MKHIBEE]

Who do you mean, Ukraine is a member. Regardless UN doesn't need to sanction policing missions like this

Apologies, I’m mixing up the UN and NATO. Ukraine are a member of the UN.

[Stairway 2 7]

Apologies, I’m mixing up the UN and NATO. Ukraine are a member of the UN.

Hopefully Ukraine can become a part of NATO soon. People complain about its expansion but Mariupol wouldn't be Russian now and hundreds of orphans wouldn't be in East Russia if Ukraine had been let in. Turkey looks close to ratifying Sweeden at least

[neil7908]

Correct.
In an ideal world you got to Parliament first but sometimes operational issues mean you can’t. I don’t like it but that’s the reality our elected leaders have to deal with.

I'm not necessarily against the action taken but I don't like us bombing people without a debate and vote in parliament.

Like a lot of stuff in the UK, we've got by on the expectation that every politician will be a good faith actor who wouldn't dare take advantage of the system.

Given the last few years though, it's clear that isn't the case and the grey area here worries me deeply for future engagements.

It just seems really easy for a PM to order military action that would take us to the brink of war without any discussion or scrutiny in parliament. That is concerning. This could well spread into a serious regional war, and I don't think we should be dropping bombs on anyone without a bit of scrutiny.

[Ozyhibby]

I'm not necessarily against the action taken but I don't like us bombing people without a debate and vote in parliament.

Like a lot of stuff in the UK, we've got by on the expectation that every politician will be a good faith actor who wouldn't dare take advantage of the system.

Given the last few years though, it's clear that isn't the case and the grey area here worries me deeply for future engagements.

It just seems really easy for a PM to order military action that would take us to the brink of war without any discussion or scrutiny in parliament. That is concerning. This could well spread into a serious regional war, and I don't think we should be dropping bombs on anyone without a bit of scrutiny.

I’d like someone to articulate what we do if it doesn’t stop the Houthi’s sending more drones to attack ships? These drones cost next to nothing so it’s likely they will carry on.


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[Stairway 2 7]

I’d like someone to articulate what we do if it doesn’t stop the Houthi’s sending more drones to attack ships? These drones cost next to nothing so it’s likely they will carry on.


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I'd hope parliament would then decide and I'd be hopeful they would agree we go along with the twenty other countries in deciding to stop this. With satellite imagery it's easy to see where the launch sites are, destroy each one. Ukraine has kept Russia at bay by HIMARS and drones, the coalition won't have a problem.

There wasn't enough time to consult parliament in the initial strikes but if it continues fine.

The Houthis have some pr team or more probably sensible bunny hopping onto the poor Palestinians. They aren't related in any way. Houthis have been murdering Yemenis for years they are now firing missiles at civilians

[Bristolhibby]

I’d like someone to articulate what we do if it doesn’t stop the Houthi’s sending more drones to attack ships? These drones cost next to nothing so it’s likely they will carry on.


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Hit them again, harder.

Degrade their radar and arm ships with anti drone weapons, jammers and the likes. They aren’t the drones you get in Argos, they don’t have the range.

J

[Ozyhibby]

Hit them again, harder.

Degrade their radar and arm ships with anti drone weapons, jammers and the likes. They aren’t the drones you get in Argos, they don’t have the range.

J

No but they are not reaper drones either. Apparently they only cost about £20k each and we are aiming £1m dollar missiles at them to bring them down.


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[Stairway 2 7]

No but they are not reaper drones either. Apparently they only cost about £20k each and we are aiming £1m dollar missiles at them to bring them down.


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That's why it's good we bombed radar stations and sites that the drones took off from. The French head of the navy said you can't just think of the price of the missles but the price of the ships they are saving and lives also.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Labour suffer by-election loss in Hackney Labour's shock Hackney election loss ‘highlights local dissatisfaction’ | Morning Star (morningstaronline.co.uk) (https://morningstaronline.co.uk/article/labours-shock-hackney-election-loss-highlights-local-dissatisfaction)





meanwhile in West Lothian a Senior Labour councillor has Quit the party blaming a "Toxic Atmosphere" in the local group

Labour controls West Lothian Council with the help of their beloved Tory partners in Scotland

[grunt]

Why did Labour peers abstain on the Rwanda bill?

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/alexwickham/status/1753705015900782953?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/1753892770601652717?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

I didn’t see this coming. [emoji849]


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[DaveF]

https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/1753892770601652717?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

I didn’t see this coming. [emoji849]


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Keir Starmer has ditched his promise - words forever associated with that Labour Tory.

[degenerated]

https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/1753892770601652717?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

I didn’t see this coming. [emoji849]


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkHe's going to run out of pledges to break before the election even happens.

[Ozyhibby]

He's going to run out of pledges to break before the election even happens.

He’s made a right tit of Gordon Brown as well. He spent two years on that constitution report and Starmer has binned the lot. I suspect Brown knew it would happen and didn’t care right enough.


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[Moulin Yarns]

If only more people were like Kezia

https://news.stv.tv/politics/kezia-dugdale-says-anger-at-brexit-led-to-her-voting-snp

[Jack]

If only more people were like Kezia

https://news.stv.tv/politics/kezia-dugdale-says-anger-at-brexit-led-to-her-voting-snp

More Labour MSPs were like Kezia!

[Keith_M]

https://x.com/politlcsuk/status/1753892770601652717?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

I didn’t see this coming. [emoji849]





"Keir Starmer has ditched his promise to abolish the House of Lords in a first term as he seeks to make the Labour manifesto "bombproof" of Tory attacks "


:faf:



Does he have anything left to ditch?

[Kato]

"Keir Starmer has ditched his promise to abolish the House of Lords in a first term as he seeks to make the Labour manifesto "bombproof" of Tory attacks "


:faf:



Does he have anything left to ditch?The name "Labour", which they probably should.

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[Hibrandenburg]

The name "Labour", which they probably should.

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How true, which begs the question of what they should call themselves?

[Kato]

How true, which begs the question of what they should call themselves?Social Neoliberal Democrats, it says "Cat Food" on a cat food tin so SND seems apt.

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[Ozyhibby]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-68211110

Guess this is what we can look forward to if Labour win at Holyrood.[emoji106]


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-68211110

Guess this is what we can look forward to if Labour win at Holyrood.[emoji106]


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Should we ask the tories to be in charge

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/23872065.scots-nhs-waiting-lists-25-times-higher-england/

I'd think not as all 4 nations NHS's are falling apart and some are worse than others depending on what metric you look at


https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/23872065.scots-nhs-waiting-lists-25-times-higher-england/

Scots NHS waiting lists 25 times higher than England

NHS Scotland data showed 1,587 patients had been waiting at least 156 weeks for either an inpatient or day care procedure.

More than 1,500 Scots patients are waiting three years or more for hospital procedures while a total of 6,831 Scots have been on the list for two years.

Despite the population south of the border being significantly larger, NHS England data showed 265 patients waiting 104 weeks or more for an inpatient or day care procedure

[Ozyhibby]

Should we ask the tories to be in charge

https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/23872065.scots-nhs-waiting-lists-25-times-higher-england/

I'd think not as all 4 nations NHS's are falling apart and some are worse than others depending on what metric you look at


https://www.glasgowtimes.co.uk/news/23872065.scots-nhs-waiting-lists-25-times-higher-england/

Scots NHS waiting lists 25 times higher than England

NHS Scotland data showed 1,587 patients had been waiting at least 156 weeks for either an inpatient or day care procedure.

More than 1,500 Scots patients are waiting three years or more for hospital procedures while a total of 6,831 Scots have been on the list for two years.

Despite the population south of the border being significantly larger, NHS England data showed 265 patients waiting 104 weeks or more for an inpatient or day care procedure

Those are only the very longest waits?


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[Stairway 2 7]

Those are only the very longest waits?


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Yes someone can say they are the best at short waits and then someone else for ambulance times ect ect

[lapsedhibee]

Those are only the very longest waits?



:agree: Cherry picked stats to show Scotland in the worst possible light.

[Stairway 2 7]

:agree: Cherry picked stats to show Scotland in the worst possible light.

That's literally my point, we all like to cherry pick, as he did with ambulance waiting time. Pick the good ones say the bad ones are putting Scotland down.

[Ozyhibby]

https://amp.theguardian.com/society/2023/aug/14/which-uk-nation-has-got-the-longest-nhs-waiting-list

More info.


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[lapsedhibee]

That's literally my point, we all like to cherry pick, as he did with ambulance waiting time. Pick the good ones say the bad ones are putting Scotland down.

Yes, wasn't meaning to object to your post. So very tiring, the relentless unionist and/or Tory distortion of statistics in most of the press, of which the linked Glasgow Times article was a fine example.

[Hibrandenburg]

:agree: Cherry picked stats to show Scotland in the worst possible light.

There's an argument to be made that Scotland first had to play catchup after devolution. I'm old enough to remember family members having to travel south because there was more assets and some treatments available south of the border than there were in Scotland. Same can be said for other devolved areas like transport where road and rail infrastructure was way behind that in England. It was a long standing joke amongst the English that Scotland didn't have any roads. Maybe we have ourselves to blame for that last one due to us being inhospitable towards the Romans :wink:

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240208/7bfd157bf90abfb5de2d77bf9c79a32d.jpg


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[grunt]

:greengrin

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68280098


Labour says it has “withdrawn support” for Rochdale by-election candidate Azhar Ali

[Ozyhibby]

:greengrin

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68280098

Starmer changed his mind again?

Correct decision now reached. Whoever in charge of vetting candidates should be getting his p45.


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[cabbageandribs1875]

oh dear (1) The National on X: "Labour MSP Paul Sweeney pulled out of sponsoring an event at the Scottish Parliament showcasing arms companies supplying weapons to Israel after he was confronted by the media https://t.co/furo32crYi" / X (twitter.com) (https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1757053695815291303?t=ihWW5-0VZT4V30Z6oDDdtA&s=19&fbclid=IwAR3JrTyJnQK7D1G14gJ08pqEU_yd-AuCBcUMrJpqYD25SGWSWGqvFUIsGSQ)

and some want British Labour(BLiS) to have power at Holyrood.... gtf & take Starmer/Streeting with yi

[marinello59]

Starmer changed his mind again?

Correct decision now reached. Whoever in charge of vetting candidates should be getting his p45.


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Maybe they will do what the SNP did with Neale Hanvey. Disown him whilst turning a blind eye to the local party activists continuing to campaign for him so he gets elected then welcome him back in to the party after the fuss has died down

[marinello59]

oh dear (1) The National on X: "Labour MSP Paul Sweeney pulled out of sponsoring an event at the Scottish Parliament showcasing arms companies supplying weapons to Israel after he was confronted by the media https://t.co/furo32crYi" / X (twitter.com) (https://twitter.com/ScotNational/status/1757053695815291303?t=ihWW5-0VZT4V30Z6oDDdtA&s=19&fbclid=IwAR3JrTyJnQK7D1G14gJ08pqEU_yd-AuCBcUMrJpqYD25SGWSWGqvFUIsGSQ)

and some want British Labour(BLiS) to have power at Holyrood.... gtf & take Starmer/Streeting with yi

Looks like the Scottish Parliament is hosting this. Sweeney was the required sponsor but they have decided to go ahead anyway without one.

[Stairway 2 7]

Maybe they will do what the SNP did with Neale Hanvey. Disown him whilst turning a blind eye to the local party activists continuing to campaign for him so he gets elected then welcome him back in to the party after the fuss has died down

Hanvey was a GE. I think Labour would if it was a GE but will probably sit back then change for GE as whoever they put their in November will win.

[marinello59]

Hanvey was a GE. I think Labour would if it was a GE but will probably sit back then change for GE as whoever they put their in November will win.

Good point.
Why Starmer thought they could ride this one out by saying it was out of character beggars belief. What a mess.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/lbc/status/1757165180524306649?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Labour’s attitude to Scotland.[emoji849]


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[DaveF]

https://x.com/lbc/status/1757165180524306649?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Labour’s attitude to Scotland.[emoji849]


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I wonder if he will apologise. Twat.

[Ozyhibby]

I wonder if he will apologise. Twat.

Not a peep from Sarwar either.


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[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/thescotsman/status/1757364559940100415?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[MKHIBEE]

https://x.com/lbc/status/1757165180524306649?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Labour’s attitude to Scotland.[emoji849]


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imagine the ****storm if he said Israel instead of Scotland

[Keith_M]

https://x.com/lbc/status/1757165180524306649?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

Labour’s attitude to Scotland.[emoji849]


In fairness, he';s been criticized by a number of Labour MPs for his stupid comment.

[cabbageandribs1875]

and another one, what in the wee mans name is going on with the British Labour Party Labour suspends second parliamentary candidate after recording emerges - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-68289460)

Labour has suspended a second parliamentary candidate after allegations that he made comments about Israel.


Former MP Graham Jones is also facing an investigation, the BBC understands.


It comes after Labour withdrew support for the party's candidate for the Rochdale by-election, Azhar Ali, for apparently making antisemitic remarks.



But, on Tuesday the Guido Fawkes website published audio in which the former MP allegedly uses an expletive to refer to Israel and arguing that British people who fight in the Israel Defence Forces "should be locked up".

At the same meeting, Mr Ali is alleged to have blamed "people in the media from certain Jewish quarters" for the suspension of MP Andy McDonald from Labour.

[DaveF]

In fairness, he';s been criticized by a number of Labour MPs for his stupid comment.

I see he's been forced to issue the standard 'I love Scotland' apology.

“Following my comments on LBC last night, I apologise for any negative insinuation about Scotland.

“I’m half Scottish, I love the country and it is where much of my family comes from. It was a poorly judged comment made in jest and doesn’t reflect my views, or the views of the Labour Party"

[Ozyhibby]

I see he's been forced to issue the standard 'I love Scotland' apology.

“Following my comments on LBC last night, I apologise for any negative insinuation about Scotland.

“I’m half Scottish, I love the country and it is where much of my family comes from. It was a poorly judged comment made in jest and doesn’t reflect my views, or the views of the Labour Party"

Some of my best friends are Scottish.[emoji6][emoji23]


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[grunt]

Scottish Labour MSP Paul Sweeney joked about having shares in a major weapons firm in the wake of UK airstrikes in the Middle East.


Damn. I sold all my BAE Systems shares two months ago. I still got a nice return on my investment though.

https://www.thenational.scot/news/24117677.paul-sweeney-joked-bae-systems-shares-syria-airstrikes/

[Stairway 2 7]

They won't care about the guy saying send the criminals to Scotland as he is a bit of a random and not an MP or councilor or anything

They probably have a decision with Graham Jones criticising Israel and people going to fight for them. They don't want antisemitism labels again. It's just noise regardless and won't move the dial in the elections at all but he'll need to be more decisive with decisions if he's wanting a second term, he's very lightweight

[grunt]

Scottish Labour MSP Paul Sweeney joked about having shares in a major weapons firm in the wake of UK airstrikes in the Middle East.
Someone has posted this is from 2015. I don't know and can't see the article. If so, then it's just rabble rousing and I should not have posted it.

[degenerated]

Someone has posted this is from 2015. I don't know and can't see the article. If so, then it's just rabble rousing and I should not have posted it.Regardless of when it was from it shows the stamp of the man.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/dominicpenna/status/1757665864696971522?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Ozyhibby]

They won't care about the guy saying send the criminals to Scotland as he is a bit of a random and not an MP or councilor or anything

They probably have a decision with Graham Jones criticising Israel and people going to fight for them. They don't want antisemitism labels again. It's just noise regardless and won't move the dial in the elections at all but he'll need to be more decisive with decisions if he's wanting a second term, he's very lightweight

Not a total random.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240214/3b95eb52b7fea15619474c4ce11ac447.jpg

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[Stairway 2 7]

Not a total random.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240214/3b95eb52b7fea15619474c4ce11ac447.jpg

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Who knew him before yesterday bar the most avid politics follower, he's not an MP or even a councilor. Don't you regularly say that a party can't be blamed for an individual MP it's how they deal with them that matters. He isn't an MP so can't be punished

He seems odious like most think tank grifters and chums of Starmer and Cooper

[grunt]

They won't care about the guy saying send the criminals to Scotland as he is a bit of a random and not an MP or councilor or anything
Not really so random. He's the Director of a Labour Think Tank credited with making Labour re-electable, a Think Tank comprising 7 current members of the Labour Shadow Front Bench. Just a reminder of what he said:


Why don't you send the smuggler gangs and put them on the barge that has been set aside for asylum seekers and ship the barge up to the north of Scotland, for all I know, who cares?

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGOlwe4XIAAPqJV?format=jpg&name=medium

[Stairway 2 7]

Not really so random. He's the Director of a Labour Think Tank credited with making Labour re-electable, a Think Tank comprising 7 current members of the Labour Shadow Front Bench. Just a reminder of what he said:



https://pbs.twimg.com/media/GGOlwe4XIAAPqJV?format=jpg&name=medium
I'll stick with what I said in the post above only the most avid of avid followers of politics knew him before yesterday, did you I didn't and I sadly follow politics more than most of the population as do all on this forum.

But the point remains a few OZ and myself included say you can't blame the party for the actions of an individual only how they deal with them ie suspension or sacking. He's not an MP just a tit. I'm sure others actually in Westminster think similar mind you

[Ozyhibby]

I'll stick with what I said in the post above only the most avid of avid followers of politics knew him before yesterday, did you I didn't and I sadly follow politics more than most of the population as do all on this forum.

But the point remains a few OZ and myself included say you can't blame the party for the actions of an individual only how they deal with them ie suspension or sacking. He's not an MP just a tit. I'm sure others actually in Westminster think similar mind you

He does represent Labour though. He would not have been allowed to go LBC without permission from the party. He was there to speak for them.
So far no rebuke from Starmer or Sarwar? He is still in his post.


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[Stairway 2 7]

He does represent Labour though. He would not have been allowed to go LBC without permission from the party. He was there to speak for them.
So far no rebuke from Starmer or Sarwar? He is still in his post.


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He doesn't represent Labour they have dozens of talking heads on LBC of course he wasn't talking for them. It's like the IEA are intertwined with the Tories but aren't them. Slow news week due to half term

"Sarwar, on the eve of his party conference starting in Glasgow, was asked about Simons by the Record.

“My first reaction is ‘who?’. Every party has elements on the fringes that give them moments of cringe.”

He added that it was a “ludicrous” comment to make:

“He doesn’t represent the Labour party’s view. He doesn’t represent the Labour party and it’s actually quite a serious issue he trivialised.”

“I think people that are making stupid, flippant comments like that are best ignored"

[DaveF]

He doesn't represent Labour they have dozens of talking heads on LBC of course he wasn't talking for them. It's like the IEA are intertwined with the Tories but aren't them. Slow news week due to half term

"Sarwar, on the eve of his party conference starting in Glasgow, was asked about Simons by the Record.

“My first reaction is ‘who?’. Every party has elements on the fringes that give them moments of cringe.”

He added that it was a “ludicrous” comment to make:

“He doesn’t represent the Labour party’s view. He doesn’t represent the Labour party and it’s actually quite a serious issue he trivialised.”

“I think people that are making stupid, flippant comments like that are best ignored"

Does this guy gets paid for making Labour re electable?

Just wondering if it's good use of Labour money to pay someone Sarwar says is best ignored.

[grunt]

He doesn't represent Labour ...

Sarwar: “I think people that are making stupid, flippant comments like that are best ignored"Except he's not being ignored. He's a key policy maker at the centre of the Labour Party. He advises the top people in the Party as to what direction they should take. If he was "best ignored" then Reeves, Streeting, Nandy, Powell, Phillipson etc. wouldn't be working with him.

I can't believe you're pretending this is not a major issue.

[Stairway 2 7]

Except he's not being ignored. He's a key policy maker at the centre of the Labour Party. He advises the top people in the Party as to what direction they should take. If he was "best ignored" then Reeves, Streeting, Nandy, Powell, Phillipson etc. wouldn't be working with him.

I can't believe you're pretending this is not a major issue.

I can't believe your pretending it is. No mark think tanker is rhyming slang of that. Some SNP supporters are angrier about this than actual labour employees and MP hopeful saying conspiracy theories about October 7th massacre. Both aren't a major for labour they will still walk to a majority

Why get angry with what half wit posh think tank people think, if your into that thought I'd follow whatever this boys think tank is called and also the IEA on twitter, you can rage all day. It's like getting angry at 50p Lee, irrelevant . We're obviously best served outwith the whole Westminster apparatus. Although we'll be swapping public schoolboys in Westminster for Scottish Labour and SNP public school leaders

[Stairway 2 7]

Does this guy gets paid for making Labour re electable?

Just wondering if it's good use of Labour money to pay someone Sarwar says is best ignored.

He's not employed by Labour they are funded by donations, mostly from multi millionaires who want Labour to not move to the left. They show their donations unlike the IEA but both try to keep things to the right

[DaveF]

He's not employed by Labour they are funded by donations, mostly from multi millionaires who want Labour to not move to the left. They show their donations unlike the IEA but both try to keep things to the right

Fair enough, ta.

Be interesting to see if your view changes should he get his supposed dream ticket of becoming an MP.

[weecounty hibby]

I can't believe your pretending it is. No mark think tanker is rhyming slang of that. Some SNP supporters are angrier about this than actual labour employees and MP hopeful saying conspiracy theories about October 7th massacre. Both aren't a major for labour they will still walk to a majority

Why get angry with what half wit posh think tank people think, if your into that thought I'd follow whatever this boys think tank is called and also the IEA on twitter, you can rage all day. It's like getting angry at 50p Lee, irrelevant . We're obviously best served outwith the whole Westminster apparatus. Although we'll be swapping public schoolboys in Westminster for Scottish Labour and SNP public school leaders
I think that you are making a mistake by playing down those comments. It goes to the heart of what Labour and Tories think about Scotland. Both a cash cow and a dumping ground for things undesirable in England. And you are playing down the power that these think tankers have within both parties. There us a reason why these think tanks get funded so well by people with vested interests. See Brexit for how powerful they are

[Stairway 2 7]

Fair enough, ta.

Be interesting to see if your view changes should he get his supposed dream ticket of becoming an MP.

My view won't change he'll still be a useless right wing grifter like Starmer, Streeting Reeves and chums. Only positive is he might have damaged his chances of being an MP although I'd doubt it unfortunately

[Stairway 2 7]

I think that you are making a mistake by playing down those comments. It goes to the heart of what Labour and Tories think about Scotland. Both a cash cow and a dumping ground for things undesirable in England. And you are playing down the power that these think tankers have within both parties. There us a reason why these think tanks get funded so well by people with vested interests. See Brexit for how powerful they are

I'm not playing down the quote it's disgusting I'm just saying he's not employed by Labour. Just like when there are sex pests or bigots that are MPs I don't think the party can be blamed, they can only be viewed on how they reprimand, he's not employed so can't be suspended.

I also think it's weird that people are angrier about the Scotland comment rather than the fact he didn't attack the sick Rwanda deal. I know he backtracked calling out Rwanda but it was pr like saying his dad is scottish

[Stairway 2 7]

Jeezo massive poll of 18,000 people shows a tory wipeout. Tories getting 80 seats and 18 cabinet ministers losing their seats including Jeremy Hunt, Grant Shapps, Penny Mordaunt, Gillian Keegan and Mel Stride. Will contract but not in time for it to be a disaster for them

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/bombshell-mega-poll-predicts-tories-32121361

[Kato]

Jeezo massive poll of 18,000 people shows a tory wipeout. Tories getting 80 seats and 18 cabinet ministers losing their seats including Jeremy Hunt, Grant Shapps, Penny Mordaunt, Gillian Keegan and Mel Stride. Will contract but not in time for it to be a disaster for them

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/politics/bombshell-mega-poll-predicts-tories-32121361

How many seats does Grant Shapps lose all by himself?

I like these polls and think it could be even worse for the Ghouls if enough people tactically vote, but there is a whole load of crap to go under the bridge before a GE.

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[Stairway 2 7]

How many seats does Grant Shapps lose all by himself?

I like these polls and think it could be even worse for the Ghouls if enough people tactically vote, but there is a whole load of crap to go under the bridge before a GE.

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It'll get closer but it's usually tightening quite a bit this far in the cycle, polls are showing the opposite. Papers are going to go into hyperdrive defending the tories. Can see quite a few tories say they are standing down at the next election so they don't have to stand on the podium

[grunt]

I can't believe you're pretending it is


Prominent Labour policy maker, who works with seven of the Labour front bench says that Labour should send criminals to Scotland and you can't understand why it's a big issue. Right.

[Stairway 2 7]

Prominent Labour policy maker, who works with seven of the Labour front bench says that Labour should send criminals to Scotland and you can't understand why it's a big issue. Right.

Not Labour employee that you and I didn't know two days ago , think tanker is an erse shocker. Same people get angry about this as get angry about Edinburgh castle cafe names. There's been sex pests MPS that get less anger. If he was an MP you would want him to be suspended but he's not. I'm sure many in Labour and the tories think of Wales and North of London are distant feral outposts

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/11987400/anas-sarwar-claims-labour-u-turns-show-political-bravery/?utm_campaign=native_share&utm_source=sharebar_native&utm_medium=sharebar_native

According to Anas, Starmer is building trust in politics by breaking all the promises he has previously made. Call me old fashioned but I always thought trust was built by keeping promises. [emoji2369]


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[Kato]

Wellingborough (Bub)Bye Election.

Bloke from Sky, anticipating a Labour win, sounding like John Robertson as Hibs third went in against Inverness, then pivoting to sounding like John Robertson when Inverness got their consolation goal while interviewing Richard Tice.

"Here's a happy man."

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[Stairway 2 7]

Massive victory for Labour expected with the polls recently but still huge swings. I think it was poor from reform as it was a byelection. I reckon they will fizzle out and most of the people who chose them in polls will be stay at homes.


@lewis_goodall
·
Big, big victories for Labour in Wellingborough and Kingswood. Catastrophic for the Conservatives. They’ve now lost more by elections than in any other Parliament since 1945.

We’ve started to expect these scale of Tory defeats. Says much about how bad a hole the govt is in


@lewis_goodall
·
We’re becoming accustomed to records being broken.

Wellingborough had become the safest of safe Tory seats. Majority of 18500. The fall in the Tory vote (-37.6) is the biggest drop for any party since the war.

Swing of 28.6% 2nd biggest in history, only just shy of the record

[MKHIBEE]

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/11987400/anas-sarwar-claims-labour-u-turns-show-political-bravery/?utm_campaign=native_share&utm_source=sharebar_native&utm_medium=sharebar_native

According to Anas, Starmer is building trust in politics by breaking all the promises he has previously made. Call me old fashioned but I always thought trust was built by keeping promises. [emoji2369]


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Ask Boris Johnson

[marinello59]

That’s another two stunning by-election victories for Labour. After the drubbing they got at the last general election I thought it would take at least two electoral cycles before they would be seriously challenging for Government. They’re not there yet , given the way politics have gone in the last decade with Brexit, Trump etc we could still be in for another shock. Interesting times. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

That’s another two stunning by-election victories for Labour. After the drubbing they got at the last general election I thought it would take at least two electoral cycles before they would be seriously challenging for Government. They’re not there yet , given the way politics have gone in the last decade with Brexit, Trump etc we could still be in for another shock. Interesting times. :greengrin

Labour will be in govt before the end of the year. Not offering any change though.


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[Pretty Boy]

That’s another two stunning by-election victories for Labour. After the drubbing they got at the last general election I thought it would take at least two electoral cycles before they would be seriously challenging for Government. They’re not there yet , given the way politics have gone in the last decade with Brexit, Trump etc we could still be in for another shock. Interesting times. :greengrin

From a Labour perspective they will feel this is all about gaining momentum (no pun intended:greengrin).

It's a bit like ticket sales for big Hibs games. If they start off sluggish then the mood around the game becomes negative, that carries over to social media, places like here and in the pub and so on. There's no excitement around it so there's never really a head of steam built up. On the other hand if sales start well and excitement starts to build then everyone wants to be a part of it so it creates a snowball effect.

I think the Tories are currently in the former camp whilst Labour are in the latter. The far right Tories are shifting support to the likes of Reform whilst the old style small c conservatives are largely staying at home. A general election will probably see a higher turnout among that core Tory vote but Labour have a head of steam up now. For all the Tories may be staying at home, the Labour vote is coming out in decent numbers. I'm far from impressed by Starmer but there have been repeated forecasts of doom and gloom from the critics nominally on his own side and he just keeps winning. He'll stroll to victory in a general election with a whopping majority barring a total disaster now. A lot of floating voters will see results like last night and see it as an indication of where their vote should go and some people just like being on the winning side. I'm not at all sold on how positive a Labour victory will be but then I don't see any mainstream party offering a radical alternative to the status quo and if push came to shove I'd rather have Starmer than 5 more years of the incumbent lunatics.

[Andy Bee]

I don't think it's as cut and dry for Labour, another 2 elections with turnout at the 37 - 38% mark, Rutherglen was 37% and a fair few others are below 40%. People are staying home and Labour are only hoovering up half of the votes the Tories are losing. Rutherglen consistently showed well over 60% and sometimes closer to 70% in turnout albeit for general elections but even still people just aint interested. I think a new record is on the cards for the lowest turnout since records began.

[Stairway 2 7]

I don't think it's as cut and dry for Labour, another 2 elections with turnout at the 37 - 38% mark, Rutherglen was 37% and a fair few others are below 40%. People are staying home and Labour are only hoovering up half of the votes the Tories are losing. Rutherglen consistently showed well over 60% and sometimes closer to 70% in turnout albeit for general elections but even still people just aint interested. I think a new record is on the cards for the lowest turnout since records began.

Nah turnouts for byelections are regularly like this including before Blairs landslide, it's the swing that's extraordinary the second biggest ever. Turnout will rise for the general election

[grunt]

Anas Sarwar says it’s “ludicrous” that those earning £28.5k should be paying more in tax for public services in Scotland.
Says the SNP has been “reckless” and “incompetent” with taxpayer money ...

The Scottish Labour Party voted in favour of this year's (23/24) Scottish Income Tax rates in the Scottish Parliament, and their Finance Spokesperson described them as "progressive." Anas Sarwar now describes his own party's position as "ludicrous."

[Ozyhibby]

Anas Sarwar says it’s “ludicrous” that those earning £28.5k should be paying more in tax for public services in Scotland.
Says the SNP has been “reckless” and “incompetent” with taxpayer money ...

The Scottish Labour Party voted in favour of this year's (23/24) Scottish Income Tax rates in the Scottish Parliament, and their Finance Spokesperson described them as "progressive." Anas Sarwar now describes his own party's position as "ludicrous."

Anas isn’t really a serious politician.
He said today he would stand up for Scotland against Starmer. Why would this be needed?


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[grunt]

Anas isn’t really a serious politician.
He said today he would stand up for Scotland against Starmer. Why would this be needed?
Vote Scottish Labour so we can oppose Starmer? Ok.

[Ozyhibby]

Vote Scottish Labour so we can oppose Starmer? Ok.

It’s Sarwar saying Starmer won’t stand up for Scotlands interests. It’s a fair old admission and must have took some guts.


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[grunt]

It’s Sarwar saying Starmer won’t stand up for Scotlands interests. It’s a fair old admission and must have took some guts.
That's certainly one possible interpretation.

[grunt]

Can someone please explain what Labour is doing here? https://news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-labour-mps-murray-and-shanks-wont-support-snps-gaza-ceasefire-motion

[DaveF]

Can someone please explain what Labour is doing here? https://news.stv.tv/politics/scottish-labour-mps-murray-and-shanks-wont-support-snps-gaza-ceasefire-motion

The article is from November last year.

[Hibrandenburg]

The article is from November last year.

Is it still the current status quo?

[grunt]

The article is from November last year.Thank you. Life is so complicated sometimes.

[DaveF]

Is it still the current status quo?

Starmer has moved on from humanitarian pauses to:

"Speaking to delegates on Sunday, Sir Keir said everyone wanted an end to the fighting, "not just for now, not just for a pause, but permanently".

"A ceasefire that lasts. This is what must happen now. The fighting must stop now."

But the Labour leader stopped short of using the word "immediate" which is what the SNP is calling for in terms of a ceasefire announcement.

[grunt]

Starmer has moved on from humanitarian pauses to:

"Speaking to delegates on Sunday, Sir Keir said everyone wanted an end to the fighting, "not just for now, not just for a pause, but permanently".

"A ceasefire that lasts. This is what must happen now. The fighting must stop now."

But the Labour leader stopped short of using the word "immediate" which is what the SNP is calling for in terms of a ceasefire announcement.It really annoys me how these politicians are quibbling over words. We just need the IDF to stop bombing Palestine and killing unarmed women and children. Is that so hard?

[marinello59]

Starmer has moved on from humanitarian pauses to:

"Speaking to delegates on Sunday, Sir Keir said everyone wanted an end to the fighting, "not just for now, not just for a pause, but permanently".

"A ceasefire that lasts. This is what must happen now. The fighting must stop now."

But the Labour leader stopped short of using the word "immediate" which is what the SNP is calling for in terms of a ceasefire announcement.

Flynn and Starmer both playing petty point scoring games while people die. Sad stuff.
They actually agree, the rest of us don’t care about the wording .

[grunt]

Flynn and Starmer both playing petty point scoring games while people die. Sad stuff.
They actually agree, the rest of us don’t care about the wording .
I'm not sure what else Flynn could do in this case? He's put two motions before Parliament.

[Moulin Yarns]

I'm not sure what else Flynn could do in this case? He's put two motions before Parliament.

Ronaldo, formerly of this parish, frequently has a go at the Labour Party on the twittersphere. Quite good to know that he is still campaigning.

[cabbageandribs1875]

https://scontent.fman1-1.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t39.30808-6/428630462_7252382314848428_4353594176932226759_n.j pg?_nc_cat=109&ccb=1-7&_nc_sid=dd5e9f&_nc_ohc=Cb06Vu70H3EAX821Xrm&_nc_ht=scontent.fman1-1.fna&oh=00_AfBJ73Jnzs54KtbLPjyZs09dAaZ8ReGiihqHxceBtAaA dQ&oe=65D68901

[DaveF]

Flynn and Starmer both playing petty point scoring games while people die. Sad stuff.
They actually agree, the rest of us don’t care about the wording .

What's Flynn done wrong? He's used the word immediate. Starmer is quoted above as saying he wants a ceasefire now. It's pathetic that Labour won't back it simply because it's the SNP who submitted it.

[marinello59]

What's Flynn done wrong? He's used the word immediate. Starmer is quoted above as saying he wants a ceasefire now. It's pathetic that Labour won't back it simply because it's the SNP who submitted it.

You don’t think writing open letters and demanding Labour MPs be whipped to vote for the motion exactly as it stands is political posturing and gamesmanship? It’s hardly conducive to amicable discussions behind the scenes.
Both leaders fundamentally agree, I expect the motion to be backed fully by both parties after a simple change to the wording.

[Ozyhibby]

You don’t think writing open letters and demanding Labour MPs be whipped to vote for the motion exactly as it stands is political posturing and gamesmanship? It’s hardly conducive to amicable discussions between the scenes.
Both leaders fundamentally agree, I expect the motion to be backed fully by both parties after a simple change to the wording.

There has been no discussions behind the scenes. That was a lie by Sarwar yesterday.


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[marinello59]

There has been no discussions behind the scenes. That was a lie by Sarwar yesterday.


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I didn’t claim there had been. :greengrin

[Hibrandenburg]

You don’t think writing open letters and demanding Labour MPs be whipped to vote for the motion exactly as it stands is political posturing and gamesmanship? It’s hardly conducive to amicable discussions behind the scenes.
Both leaders fundamentally agree, I expect the motion to be backed fully by both parties after a simple change to the wording.

I'm not sure they fundamentally agree, Flynn is at least taking a moral stance that is clear whilst Starmer might have got off the fence but is still within reach of it should he decide to climb back on.

[grunt]

I'm not sure they fundamentally agree, Flynn is at least taking a moral stance that is clear whilst Starmer might have got off the fence but is still within reach of it should he decide to climb back on.
No, you've got this quite wrong. Flynn is playing petty point scoring games while people die. Sad stuff.

[marinello59]

I'm not sure they fundamentally agree, Flynn is at least taking a moral stance that is clear whilst Starmer might have got off the fence but is still within reach of it should he decide to climb back on.

Starmer’s failure to call sooner for an immediate cease fire was wrong. Quite apart from anything else he totally misread the mood of his own party. They’re pretty much in agreement now though, thank goodness.

[Hibrandenburg]

Starmer’s failure to call sooner for an immediate cease fire was wrong. Quite apart from anything else he totally misread the mood of his own party. They’re pretty much in agreement now though, thank goodness.

I'm certainly glad that that seems to be the case M59, but I think Starmer is not that different from Johnson in that his opinion blows with the wind. Public opinion steers Starmers opinion. This country is screaming out for a leader, I'm not convinced Starmer is that. He'll do what he needs to do to get elected and then what he needs to do to stay in power, we need someone who steers public opinion not another follower of it.

[marinello59]

I'm certainly glad that that seems to be the case M59, but I think Starmer is not that different from Johnson in that his opinion blows with the wind. Public opinion steers Starmers opinion. This country is screaming out for a leader, I'm not convinced Starmer is that. He'll do what he needs to do to get elected and then what he needs to do to stay in power, we need someone who steers public opinion not another follower of it.

I’m not convinced by Starmer either. We can only hope that when they publish their manifesto it reveals a previously hidden radical streak. I’ve actually made myself laugh there. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2024/feb/19/keir-starmer-risks-biggest-rebellion-of-his-leadership-over-gaza-vote-mps-warn?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Starmer not convinced he wants war to stop.


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[Hibrandenburg]

I’m not convinced by Starmer either. We can only hope that when they publish their manifesto it reveals a previously hidden radical streak. I’ve actually made myself laugh there. :greengrin

We neither but I'll end up voting for him because I have to vote in the last constituency where I lived in the UK and that's in prime Tory territory. :greengrin

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/kieranpandrews/status/1759849559939797274?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

This is the start of Labour preparing the ground for getting rid of free education.


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[Hibrandenburg]

https://x.com/kieranpandrews/status/1759849559939797274?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

This is the start of Labour preparing the ground for getting rid of free education.


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George Foulkes will be happy, you can't have a Scottish government trying to build up a situation in Scotland where the services are manifestly better than south of the border in a number of areas.

[marinello59]

https://x.com/kieranpandrews/status/1759849559939797274?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

This is the start of Labour preparing the ground for getting rid of free education.


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I think Michael Marra has said he is against introducing fees but options do need to be considered hasn’t he? There does need to be a grown up conversation about university funding , especially as we are seeing places for Scottish students being cut. I’d like to think all parties will engage in that.

[grunt]

Labour's Ian Murray writes to Stephen Flynn to urge him to back the Labour Party ceasefire motion.

But yeah, it's Stephen Flynn that's playing petty point scoring games while people die. Sad stuff.

[Stairway 2 7]

Labour's Ian Murray writes to Stephen Flynn to urge him to back the Labour Party ceasefire motion.

But yeah, it's Stephen Flynn that's playing petty point scoring games while people die. Sad stuff.

They should have worked together immature from Labour. Both want a ceasefire now and Hamas to release the hostages. Israel isn't going to stop now that it's taken the rest of the strip and Hamas isn't interested in releasing the hostages so it's very moot. They definitely should still make clear their position mind.

I assume the tories will just vote it down anyway?

[Ozyhibby]

I think Michael Marra has said he is against introducing fees but options do need to be considered hasn’t he? There does need to be a grown up conversation about university funding , especially as we are seeing places for Scottish students being cut. I’d like to think all parties will engage in that.

Has there been a fall in Scottish kids going to uni? Last I looked more Scottish 18 year olds went to uni than in England?


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[marinello59]

Has there been a fall in Scottish kids going to uni? Last I looked more Scottish 18 year olds went to uni than in England?


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I love the way you have framed that. Well done. :greengrin

And I know that you are aware that 1200 University places for Scottish students were cut as part of the last budget, something that almost went unnoticed. To be fair these were places created during covid. It was well hidden though and when it was eventually picked up on Robison said it was no longer sustainable to fund the first-year university places created due to a "big spike" in the number of pupils meeting admission thresholds after exams were disrupted during the pandemic.
I'm guessing some here will argue that that isn't a real cut and I can see the logic to that. (Though the number of places that will require to be cut to make the claimed savings is disputed by Michael Marra. I make no comment on whether he is right or not. ) It does highlight how places are capped for Scottish students though in order to make space for fee paying foreign students. That is less than ideal, surely we should always be looking to improve on what we have?

[Ozyhibby]

I love the way you have framed that. Well done. :greengrin

And I know that you are aware that 1200 University places for Scottish students were cut as part of the last budget, something that almost went unnoticed. To be fair these were places created during covid. It was well hidden though and when it was eventually picked up on Robison said it was no longer sustainable to fund the first-year university places created due to a "big spike" in the number of pupils meeting admission thresholds after exams were disrupted during the pandemic.
I'm guessing some here will argue that that isn't a real cut and I can see the logic to that. (Though the number of places that will require to be cut to make the claimed savings is disputed by Michael Marra. I make no comment on whether he is right or not. ) It does highlight how places are capped for Scottish students though in order to make space for fee paying foreign students. That is less than ideal, surely we should always be looking to improve on what we have?

If they are capped then it’s not much of a cap if more kids in Scotland are going to uni than in uncapped England?
You can get a place in a Scottish uni for some courses with very average higher results.


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[Stairway 2 7]

If they are capped then it’s not much of a cap if more kids in Scotland are going to uni than in uncapped England?
You can get a place in a Scottish uni for some courses with very average higher results.


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I've not seen it in years but around 2020 England had a few % more kids going to uni than Scotland a higher % of deprived children too. Scotland had more in higher education but that included hnc and hnd's. Be good if we've took over.

Regardless of the figures all of ours have much lower debt at the end which is the most important thing.

[marinello59]

I've not seen it in years but around 2020 England had a few % more kids going to uni than Scotland a higher % of deprived children too. Scotland had more in higher education but that included hnc and hnd's. Be good if we've took over.

Regardless of the figures all of ours have much lower debt at the end which is the most important thing.

There is always room for improvement though and as Michael Marra suggests, that can be done without imposing tuition fees.

[Ozyhibby]

I've not seen it in years but around 2020 England had a few % more kids going to uni than Scotland a higher % of deprived children too. Scotland had more in higher education but that included hnc and hnd's. Be good if we've took over.

Regardless of the figures all of ours have much lower debt at the end which is the most important thing.

The figures I googled had Scotland at 37% and England at 35% but I guess those figure might fluctuate a bit and I’d be comfortable if they were reversed.
The average Scottish student leaves with £16k of debt and the average English kid with £44k of debt.


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[Moulin Yarns]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/labour-to-back-snps-call-for-immediate-ceasefire-in-gaza

At last, a Starmer U- turn that is the right thing to do.

[marinello59]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/labour-to-back-snps-call-for-immediate-ceasefire-in-gaza

At last, a Starmer U- turn that is the right thing to do.

Excellent. It's really important that the entire opposition gets behind this.

[weecounty hibby]

There is always room for improvement though and as Michael Marra suggests, that can be done without imposing tuition fees.

That's the problem though. Labour are suggesting loads but actually showing nothing. Michael Marra says they will need to do something different but doesn't say what that is. If Labour are in WM and in Holyroood it's likely that it'll be a copy and paste of England as Labour in Scotland will do as they are told and we all know that they don't like Scotland being different. For different read better

[Ozyhibby]

https://news.stv.tv/politics/labour-to-back-snps-call-for-immediate-ceasefire-in-gaza

At last, a Starmer U- turn that is the right thing to do.

What has been achieved by Isreal since the last vote for Starmer to change his mind?


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[DaveF]

What has been achieved by Isreal since the last vote for Starmer to change his mind?


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Israel has had time to more or less flatten all of Gaza and murder 30,000 civilians. All while Starmer stood by and watched.

[Stairway 2 7]

What has been achieved by Isreal since the last vote for Starmer to change his mind?


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Militarily? Loads, they have fully taken Gaza city, blew up miles of tunnels all known tunnels in the north and some unknown, taken Khan Yunis, war mapper estimates they have caused 20,000 Hamas casualties from the original 40,000 ( Hamas say they have lost 6k fighters). They pretty much have full control bar Rafah

They have done this in the most disgusting way with disregard for human life and infrastructure. 30,00 innocents gone Gaza is rubble.

Most of the remaining 20,000 Hamas soldiers are mixed with hundreds of thousands of refugees in Rafah. It'll be a massacre if Israel go in, but I'm sure they will. It could well overtake the 100k civilians killed by Assad and Putin in Syria as the biggest civilian slaughter of the 21st century.

The only ceasefire there have been has been is for hostage releases and I don't think Hamas is interested in that. I also don't think Netanyahu is really interested in that either both sides want the war to continue and as always its the public that will pay

[marinello59]

That's the problem though. Labour are suggesting loads but actually showing nothing. Michael Marra says they will need to do something different but doesn't say what that is. If Labour are in WM and in Holyroood it's likely that it'll be a copy and paste of England as Labour in Scotland will do as they are told and we all know that they don't like Scotland being different. For different read better

This is a devolved issue and Labour will not be forming next Holyrood Government, not as the lead party anyway. That will continue to be the SNP. Marra one of the more capable MSP's in the Parliament right now, is doing the job of an opposition MSP quite well here. He actually seems pretty well versed on this so dismissing his comments as a signal that Labour are going to introduce tuition fees is a bit of a leap from him suggesting the current situation with university funding is less than perfect. The best he can really hope to do is spark a conversation, I just hope somebody in the SNP takes it on. Free tuition does not mean job done.
A cap means some students either miss out totally on going to university or on their choice of university or course of choice for reasons other than ability. I'm not naïve enough to think that a cap will disappear totally but I do think the balance between funding by Government or other means and fees from foreign students (currently 30%) should be looked at. I don't think that's unreasonable is it?

I shouldn't really have to add this but for the avoidance of doubt and to stop myself being stuck in some constitutional pigeon hole I'm highly unlikely to vote for either Labour of the SNP.

[MKHIBEE]

Israel has had time to more or less flatten all of Gaza and murder 30,000 civilians. All while Starmer stood by and watched.

And supported.

[Ozyhibby]

Starmer threatened to bring down the speaker after the election if he didn’t change the rules and accept his amendment today. An indication of the type of govt he is about to run.

https://x.com/nicholaswatt/status/1760315632216678639?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

UK democracy in action.

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[Stairway 2 7]

Starmer threatened to bring down the speaker after the election if he didn’t change the rules and accept his amendment today. An indication of the type of govt he is about to run.

https://x.com/nicholaswatt/status/1760315632216678639?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A

UK democracy in action.

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@nicholaswatt
The Speaker’s office have been in touch to say: “This is not true.” For clarity: senior Lab sources briefed me on the messages: you will need our support after the election and this may not be forthcoming. The speaker met multiple MPs this week because he has an open door policy

[lapsedhibee]

@nicholaswatt
The Speaker’s office have been in touch to say: “This is not true.” For clarity: senior Lab sources briefed me on the messages: you will need our support after the election and this may not be forthcoming. The speaker met multiple MPs this week because he has an open door policy

Hoyle's just never going to say anything, ever, which might jeopardise his peerage.

[Stairway 2 7]

Hoyle's just never going to say anything, ever, which might jeopardise his peerage.

Hoyles not broken any parliamentary laws just gone against precedent.

I heard the IDF and Hamas have been gripped to the radio on the who said what of the egotistical British parliament. Why do they idiots always have to behave like kids. The real winner today is Kemi Badenoch who's scandal is bumped down the pages

[Ozyhibby]

Hoyle's just never going to say anything, ever, which might jeopardise his peerage.

He could be out of job before the day is out.[emoji1696]


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[Northernhibee]

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/infantile-mps-political-games-gaza-burns-2917672?ico=most_popular

Genuinely embarrassing from all parties involved. People are dying and they’re point scoring over the phrasing of the same thing.

[grunt]

Hoyles not broken any parliamentary laws just gone against precedent.
The UK Houses of Parliament are run on a system based on precedent and protocol. As we've seen from the last few years and from Johnson's time as PM, there are precious few rules when it comes to parliamentary business.

So I think your use of the word "just" is misjudged.

[GlesgaeHibby]

Hoyle is finished after his shameless deal to spare Keir Starmer's blushes, in order to try and save his job post election.

[Stairway 2 7]

The UK Houses of Parliament are run on a system based on precedent and protocol. As we've seen from the last few years and from Johnson's time as PM, there are precious few rules when it comes to parliamentary business.

So I think your use of the word "just" is misjudged.

I don't there is difference from not following they way things are usually done and breaking a rule. The Clerk said he didn't break a rule and can do as he wishes in this instance. The comparison to the Tories downplays their crimes. Both Boris and Sunak received police cautions and the government lost in court due to not following rules.

Hoyle's terrible generally though so wouldn't be bothered if he went

[Ozyhibby]

A deal was done by the speaker and Starmer to undermine the SNP. The speaker has to go.


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[lapsedhibee]

He could be out of job before the day is out.[emoji1696]



Mutually consented to the House of Lords, maybe after a decent period has elapsed, say, a week?

[Ozyhibby]

Labour MP’s now going out to bat hard to try keep their man in the job.


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[marinello59]

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/infantile-mps-political-games-gaza-burns-2917672?ico=most_popular

Genuinely embarrassing from all parties involved. People are dying and they’re point scoring over the phrasing of the same thing.

:agree:

[Ozyhibby]

:agree:

All the SNP did was put down a motion on a day they were entitled to do so. What games were they playing?


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[Andy Bee]

I'd say The Speaker contriving to not allow the SNP to vote on their own opposition day motion is more serious than simple gaming. Especially when it's to save Starmer a red face because of his own parties division.

[DaveF]

What an embarrassment. Hoyle is a spineless git only interested in getting his peerage. He should resign immediately.

And all for what. Nothing.

[Stairway 2 7]

It's all about numbers SNP and tories didn't have them Labour did

@NatashaC LBC
Multiple Tory MPs say Penny Mordaunt pulled tonight's amendment because govt did not have votes to support Israel 'humanitarian pause' motion.

Rumour is that too many Tories had told Whips they were minded to back the Labour motion in favour of full fat ceasefire.

[Kato]

What an embarrassment. Hoyle is a spineless git only interested in getting his peerage. He should resign immediately.

And all for what. Nothing.Mavis Reilly would be a more decisive Speaker.

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[weecounty hibby]

Shameful today from Labour. Spineless from Hoyle. True colours from Starmer.

Anyone in Scotland thinking about voting Labour because they say they'll put Scotland at the heart of Westminster needs to just take stock of what went on there today. The change that people want? Aye right.

[grunt]

It's all about numbers SNP and tories didn't have them Labour did



WTF are you talking about? SNP has 43 MPs. Of course they didn't have the numbers. Sheer lunacy.

It was never about "numbers".

[Stairway 2 7]

WTF are you talking about? SNP has 43 MPs. Of course they didn't have the numbers. Sheer lunacy.

It was never about "numbers".

Labour don't have the numbers on their own either but put a proposal that SNP would agree with. The only way you get a motion passed is knowing a majority will vote for it. Of course your entitled to put a motion through that you know will fail but that's a separate point

[Ozyhibby]

Labour don't have the numbers on their own either but put a proposal that SNP would agree with. The only way you get a motion passed is knowing a majority will vote for it. Of course your entitled to put a motion through that you know will fail but that's a separate point

It’s not about the numbers. It’s about the hijacking of the SNP opposition say by the speaker and Labour.


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[weecounty hibby]

Labour don't have the numbers on their own either but put a proposal that SNP would agree with. The only way you get a motion passed is knowing a majority will vote for it. Of course your entitled to put a motion through that you know will fail but that's a separate point

Labour were not entitled to an amendment today. They threatened the speaker to break protocol and allow ut. This was the SNP opposition day. Labour can try to spin this positively, and they are already trying, but what they did today was undemocratic and shows just how this pish about scotlands voice at the heart of Westminster and them being a change is utter bull****. They will likely win the next GE but only because the Tories are so bad.

[Stairway 2 7]

It’s not about the numbers. It’s about the hijacking of the SNP opposition say by the speaker and Labour.


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I think it was wrong but getting a motion passed is about the numbers. SNPs motion would have failed and we go on to other news surely they will be happy that an ammendment has passed calling for a ceasefire. Are they more interested in Hoyle not breaking a law but a gentleman's agreement or getting a call for an immediate ceasefire.

[Moulin Yarns]

It’s not about the numbers. It’s about the hijacking of the SNP opposition say by the speaker and Labour.


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Labour and the speaker knew that Labour would not support the SNP motion so he allowed the Labour ammendment against all normal parliamentary procedures.

Under normal circumstances Labour would know an ammendment wouldn't be allowed, but somehow they tabled one anyway!!!

[Stairway 2 7]

Is everyone happy that a ceasefire ammendment passed though as yesterday it looked like SNP motion would go through and be defeated. I'd say about 1% of population knows parliamentary procedure or cares, only politics biggest followers

What is more important to people SNP being bumped by Labour and dodgy Westminster showing again its dodgy or getting the ceasefire call through.

[weecounty hibby]

Is everyone happy that a ceasefire ammendment passed though as yesterday it looked like SNP motion would go through and be defeated. I'd say about 1% of population knows parliamentary procedure or cares, only politics biggest followers

What is more important to people SNP being bumped by Labour and dodgy Westminster showing again its dodgy or getting the ceasefire call through.
Getting the motion through was obviously the most important thing. BUT Labour could have raised that motion at any time they had an opposition day but chose not to. They did what they did today to prevent another rebellion and another split.
Edit. The SNP have been consistent with their view of what should be done. Until a couple of days ago Labour were still bull****ting about a humanitarian pause

[Ozyhibby]

I think it was wrong but getting a motion passed is about the numbers. SNPs motion would have failed and we go on to other news surely they will be happy that an ammendment has passed calling for a ceasefire. Are they more interested in Hoyle not breaking a law but a gentleman's agreement or getting a call for an immediate ceasefire.

You think they got a call for a ceasefire out of that?


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[Moulin Yarns]

Labour has SEVENTEEN Opposition Days each Parl Session, when they can bring ANY Motion forward.
NOT ONCE did they bring a Gaza Ceasefire Motion.
SNP have THREE Opp Days and they brought TWO Gaza Ceasefire Motions.
Labour ABSTAINED on the first and BLOCKED the second!

[Moulin Yarns]

https://twitter.com/MartinJKeatings/status/1760403790094627319?t=VKVo6HJhc9ArT2dP0OjldQ&s=19


A good thread explaining it all.

In layman's terms, here's what unfolded in the House of Commons today, and why what Hoyle did was so egregious

[Northernhibee]

https://iandunt.substack.com/p/commons-chaos-these-partisan-halfwits

As ever, an excellent breakdown of yesterday from Ian Dunt.

Yesterday, the SNP lost my vote that they gained under Sturgeon and Blackford. Back to grievance politics and rather than taking the high ground and just doing what it takes to get a call for a ceasefire through the Commons tried to use it to hurt Labour and it backfired spectacularly. Shoulder to shoulder with the Tories they walked out rather than vote for their constituents.

The electorate deserve far better than what happened.

[DaveF]

https://iandunt.substack.com/p/commons-chaos-these-partisan-halfwits

As ever, an excellent breakdown of yesterday from Ian Dunt.

Yesterday, the SNP lost my vote that they gained under Sturgeon and Blackford. Back to grievance politics and rather than taking the high ground and just doing what it takes to get a call for a ceasefire through the Commons tried to use it to hurt Labour and it backfired spectacularly. Shoulder to shoulder with the Tories they walked out rather than vote for their constituents.

The electorate deserve far better than what happened.

Well, that's one way to look at it I suppose.

[Ozyhibby]

https://iandunt.substack.com/p/commons-chaos-these-partisan-halfwits

As ever, an excellent breakdown of yesterday from Ian Dunt.

Yesterday, the SNP lost my vote that they gained under Sturgeon and Blackford. Back to grievance politics and rather than taking the high ground and just doing what it takes to get a call for a ceasefire through the Commons tried to use it to hurt Labour and it backfired spectacularly. Shoulder to shoulder with the Tories they walked out rather than vote for their constituents.

The electorate deserve far better than what happened.

The SNP never had your support. [emoji23]

Labour supporting Ian Dunt comes out with a Labour favourable opinion piece. I’m shocked.

Yesterday the SNP were prevented from voting on their own motion by Labour blackmailing the speaker. I guess it’s ok because they only represent Scottish voters. Who cares what they think?

Scotland put back in its box.


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[Northernhibee]

The SNP never had your support. [emoji23]

Labour supporting Ian Dunt comes out with a Labour favourable opinion piece. I’m shocked.

Yesterday the SNP were prevented from voting on their own motion by Labour blackmailing the speaker. I guess it’s ok because they only represent Scottish voters. Who cares what they think?

Scotland put back in its box.


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I’ve voted SNP in the last UK government and Hollywood elections actually. I voted Labour in the last council election as I know the Labour councillor for my area and he’s a very good chap.


But here we go with the “Scotland put back in its box” grievance pish when the SNP walked out with the Tories and gave up its voice on the vote. Back to student politics where it had done so well in looking like the grown ups in the room for so long.

[Mon Dieu4]

https://iandunt.substack.com/p/commons-chaos-these-partisan-halfwits

As ever, an excellent breakdown of yesterday from Ian Dunt.

Yesterday, the SNP lost my vote that they gained under Sturgeon and Blackford. Back to grievance politics and rather than taking the high ground and just doing what it takes to get a call for a ceasefire through the Commons tried to use it to hurt Labour and it backfired spectacularly. Shoulder to shoulder with the Tories they walked out rather than vote for their constituents.

The electorate deserve far better than what happened.

Did the SNP not want a clause about the war crimes being commited by the IDF included, which there are, anyone who says any different is off their head but Labour just wanted a ceasefire and no such clause

Not like they were arguing about the exact same thing is it?

[Andy Bee]

Did the SNP not want a clause about the war crimes being commited by the IDF included, which there are, anyone who says any different is off their head but Labour just wanted a ceasefire and no such clause

Not like they were arguing about the exact same thing is it?


Exactly, the only winner out of all of this is the Israel Lobby. Quite worrying really that the incoming PM can be pressured that much as to go as far as blackmail the Speaker.

[Ozyhibby]

I’ve voted SNP in the last UK government and Hollywood elections actually. I voted Labour in the last council election as I know the Labour councillor for my area and he’s a very good chap.


But here we go with the “Scotland put back in its box” grievance pish when the SNP walked out with the Tories and gave up its voice on the vote. Back to student politics where it had done so well in looking like the grown ups in the room for so long.

The SNP no longer had anything to vote on. The minute the Tories walked, the SNP motion was no longer going to be voted on. What was the point in staying?


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[Ozyhibby]

Exactly, the only winner out of all of this is the Israel Lobby. Quite worrying really that the incoming PM can be pressured that much as to go as far as blackmail the Speaker.

There is no doubt that Labour got everything they wanted out of the day.
They avoided a split, they stopped the SNP from being able to put their motion and they now have the speaker in their back pocket.


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[CropleyWasGod]

There is no doubt that Labour got everything they wanted out of the day.
They avoided a split, they stopped the SNP from being able to put their motion and they now have the speaker in their back pocket.


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Did they get a ceasefire?

[Andy Bee]

The SNP no longer had anything to vote on. The minute the Tories walked, the SNP motion was no longer going to be voted on. What was the point in staying?


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They didn't walk out, they went to the voting lobby to vote according to Ian Blackford

[Ozyhibby]

Did they get a ceasefire?

Are you saying parliament shouldn’t take a view on these things? Who should decide what the UK position is? The House of Lords? The King?
We are on the UN Security Council so our position on these things is not inconsequential.
Or do you think we should just abandon all foreign policy altogether?


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[Moulin Yarns]

Did they get a ceasefire?

The answer is no. They got a meaningless shout out for a Ceasefire. No idea what anyone expected. I'm wondering what the UN are doing, is there anything possible like going into Palestine for a time as a peacekeeping force to enforce a Ceasefire??

[CropleyWasGod]

Are you saying parliament shouldn’t take a view on these things? Who should decide what the UK position is? The House of Lords? The King?
We are on the UN Security Council so our position on these things is not inconsequential.
Or do you think we should just abandon all foreign policy altogether?


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I'm sure you know what I meant.

The answer to my question is "no", because they (like the others) weren't interested in a ceasefire as much as they wanted to posture.

The question should have been asked weeks ago "does this House want a ceasefire?". Free vote, no whipping or pedantic ****ing arguments about words. The result would have had much more meaning than the nonsense we have now.

[Ozyhibby]

https://x.com/jesse_norman/status/1760607700407169526?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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[Ozyhibby]

I'm sure you know what I meant.

The answer to my question is "no", because they (like the others) weren't interested in a ceasefire as much as they wanted to posture.

The question should have been asked weeks ago "does this House want a ceasefire?". Free vote, no whipping or pedantic ****ing arguments about words. The result would have had much more meaning than the nonsense we have now.

The SNP have tried twice now to ask. What more can they do?
Labour had plenty opportunity to do the same but instead chose to sabotage yesterday and likely brought down the speaker.


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[grunt]

I think it was wrong but getting a motion passed is about the numbers. SNPs motion would have failed and we go on to other news surely they will be happy that an ammendment has passed calling for a ceasefire. Are they more interested in Hoyle not breaking a law but a gentleman's agreement or getting a call for an immediate ceasefire.
The SNP motion was not even debated. Do you really think that the SNP should not promote motions that only they will support? The objective for the smaller parties is to get their viewpoint discussed within the chamber. Hoyle and Starmer contrived to avoid the SNP having their debate.

[grunt]

https://iandunt.substack.com/p/commons-chaos-these-partisan-halfwits

As ever, an excellent breakdown of yesterday from Ian Dunt.One of the most disappointing things IMO from yesterday has been the number of otherwise sensible political commentators falling over themselves to excuse Labour's actions. Dunt, O'Brien, Andreou, Goodall: all of them happy that their man has flouted convention and parliamentary precedent and given the Tories and the SNP a bloody nose.

[grunt]

But here we go with the “Scotland put back in its box” grievance pish when the SNP walked out with the Tories and gave up its voice on the vote. Back to student politics where it had done so well in looking like the grown ups in the room for so long.SNP MPs say they were in the lobby waiting to vote. Perhaps they're lying. In the end there was no vote, the Labour amendment passed without one. Still, democracy eh?

[grunt]

I'm sure you know what I meant.

The answer to my question is "no", because they (like the others) weren't interested in a ceasefire as much as they wanted to posture.

The question should have been asked weeks ago "does this House want a ceasefire?". Free vote, no whipping or pedantic ****ing arguments about words. The result would have had much more meaning than the nonsense we have now.Who is "they" in this sentence, please?

[grunt]

https://x.com/jesse_norman/status/1760607700407169526?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A
Thanks.

[Stairway 2 7]

When it comes down to it a lot of people are angrier about a procedure was not followed in the usual way in the parliament than they are happy about a ceasefire motion being passed in the uk parliament.

I thought this was more important and about the dying people ect ect. That's all we've heard put the politics aside and focus on whether we get a ceasefire motion.

Load of mince all three parties care more about how they look or have been treated than whether a ceasefire motion on Gaza was passed

[Ozyhibby]

When it comes down to it a lot of people are angrier about a procedure was not followed in the usual way in the parliament than they are happy about a ceasefire motion being passed in the uk parliament.

I thought this was more important and about the dying people ect ect. That's all we've heard put the politics aside and focus on whether we get a ceasefire motion.

Load of mince all three parties care more about how they look or have been treated than whether a ceasefire motion on Gaza was passed

Should we not be concerned at having a speaker favour one party over another?
Should the SNP not be unhappy that they could not put forward their own motion on their own opposition day?


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[Stairway 2 7]

https://x.com/jesse_norman/status/1760607700407169526?s=46&t=3pb_w_qndxJXScFNwz8V4A


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You say Ian Dunt isn't impartial then put up a tory **** eh. Last night SNP fans were also saying trust the bbc reporter that said Hoyles was threatened, not Hoyle or labour who are denying it.

But I thought we weren't to trust anything the bbc said, I'm lost

[Stairway 2 7]

Should we not be concerned at having a speaker favour one party over another?
Should the SNP not be unhappy that they could not put forward their own motion on their own opposition day?


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Speakers are never impartial, I liked Bercrow when he was trying to scupper the tories on brexit as he was against it.

It's unfair its not a rule but it's the way it usually done. That's my opinion on it. But I've not been all over the press or forums the last few days saying the only thing that matters is the vote, think of the children and lives are at stake

[Ozyhibby]

You say Ian Dunt isn't impartial then put up a tory **** eh. Last night SNP fans were also saying trust the bbc reporter that said Hoyles was threatened, not Hoyle or labour who are denying it.

But I thought we weren't to trust anything the bbc said, I'm lost

It’s BBC Scotland I have a problem with. Perhaps you are choosing to be lost.
If it’s all nothing then why is Hoyles apologising and likely about to lose his job?


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[degenerated]

Did they get a ceasefire?

Did they want one?

[grunt]

It's unfair it's not a rule but it's the way it usually done. That's my opinion on it. Can you please explain this? What is it, and what is the way it's usually done?

[Stairway 2 7]

Can you please explain this? What is it, and what is the way it's usually done?

Sorry I was blethering with people when typing it was not the was it was usually done although it wasn't against rules. I think it's bad but then again I'm also not bothered if gentlemens agreements in parliament are followed as I couldn't care tbh it's all a load of pomp and pish. We know Westminster is corrupt so I can't get bothered about it, I watched the napoli game instead as neither the vote nor the game was going to change anything in the real world.

They should have all just said their preferred position on the matter, put it on headed paper and released it like Canada did. Then they could have got onto issues that we can effect like councils failing, immigrants getting sent to Rwanda and energy companies taking insane profits

[Kato]

You say Ian Dunt isn't impartial then put up a tory **** eh. Last night SNP fans were also saying trust the bbc reporter that said Hoyles was threatened, not Hoyle or labour who are denying it.

But I thought we weren't to trust anything the bbc said, I'm lostStopped reading at "SNP fans".

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[cabbageandribs1875]

Stopped reading at "SNP fans".

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ditto :agree: