(Soon to be) Former President Donald Trump

[stoneyburn hibs]

Bawbag
Not the most informative statement but I don't think anyone has said.

[Smartie]

I'd say it's a certainty.

Presidents rarely fail to get a second term.

His last victory was far from emphatic and he was up against a divisive, pretty weak opponent.

The only things that I can see working in his favour are that Biden is also weak and that there are a reasonable number of morons in the USA who might just watch his pish and think “that’s my guy!”

A democrat of any substance would wipe the floor with him. The dust is yet to settle on the coronavirus crisis, even if he’s polling ok now I just can’t see him emerging from this with any credibility.

I suppose in his favour there will also be party loyalty - some might see past him and just want a republican to guide them through what stands to be a very challenging spell economically.

One thing I have found with some Americans I’ve met through work is that even if they’re very intelligent, scientific people they can have pretty mental political beliefs - very right wing.

[Hibby Bairn]

Don’t underestimate the size of the redneck vote.

[Sylar]

Don’t underestimate the size of the redneck vote.

Hopefully his base take his advice seriously and decide to embrace internal bleaching this coming weekend!

[Mibbes Aye]

Meant to post this ages ago but the Guardian has been running summaries several days a week of the late-night US talk show hosts. They have consistently been eviscerating Trump in a very funny way - he must hate it if he pays attention to it. This link will connect to the recent shows and comment, but they have been going at it since he was elected and a lot of it has been absolutely hilarious. If you follow the links at the bottom it takes you all the way back.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/late-night-tv-roundup

[Tobias Funke]

Meant to post this ages ago but the Guardian has been running summaries several days a week of the late-night US talk show hosts. They have consistently been eviscerating Trump in a very funny way - he must hate it if he pays attention to it. This link will connect to the recent shows and comment, but they have been going at it since he was elected and a lot of it has been absolutely hilarious. If you follow the links at the bottom it takes you all the way back.

https://www.theguardian.com/culture/late-night-tv-roundup

A lot of these clips appear on my YouTube feed, he gets absolutely obliterated by the likes of Colbert, Myers, Kimmel. My only criticism is their terrible Trump impressions 😂

More serious critics are the likes of Joe Scarborough of MSNBC (Fake News no doubt 🙄) and Jesse Dollemore, both Republicans who call out his BS out at every opportunity. Worth a watch of their content.

Haven’t seen much of our Trump fan boy and resident headcase “Slavers”, surely even they must now see how much of a dangerous fool this man is.

[Tobias Funke]

If you listen to what he said - he is thinking out loud (maybe he shouldn't be doing that in his position) - 'blue skying' maybe over a possible solution. I don't think he is suggesting everyone chugs down some domestos.

I genuinely didn’t think it was possible to defend what that Orange f-wit said yesterday but that was a valiant effort by you, I’ll give you a 4 out of 10.

Trump is a highly dangerous moron, that press conference yesterday was up there with the most f’ed up things I’ve seen from a person in a position of such power. I don’t think his meds had been balanced properly yesterday morning.

[Mibbes Aye]

A lot of these clips appear on my YouTube feed, he gets absolutely obliterated by the likes of Colbert, Myers, Kimmel. My only criticism is their terrible Trump impressions 😂

More serious critics are the likes of Joe Scarborough of MSNBC (Fake News no doubt 🙄) and Jesse Dollemore, both Republicans who call out his BS out at every opportunity. Worth a watch of their content.

Haven’t seen much of our Trump fan boy and resident headcase “Slavers”, surely even they must now see how much of a dangerous fool this man is.

Alec Baldwin has probably been my favourite Trump impersonator so far.

A real, real guy. Let me tell you, I have lots of impersonators. Interesting people. Weak people. Some people say are fake people. I don’t know about that but I have a lot of friends and have made a lot of deals, good deals. People tell me the impersonations are fake, a lot of people say that. Good people, good people say that. I know a lot of people.

[staunchhibby]

The idiot should be sent to the iss and forgotten about

[lapsedhibee]

Don’t underestimate the size of the redneck vote.

America is totally and absolutely ****** ***** **** ********* ****** *****ed (https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/24/revealed-leader-group-peddling-bleach-cure-lobbied-trump-coronavirus)

[Pretty Boy]

I genuinely didn’t think it was possible to defend what that Orange f-wit said yesterday but that was a valiant effort by you, I’ll give you a 4 out of 10.

Trump is a highly dangerous moron, that press conference yesterday was up there with the most f’ed up things I’ve seen from a person in a position of such power. I don’t think his meds had been balanced properly yesterday morning.

I actually understand what the poster quoted is saying. I'll counter that by saying Trump most definitely shouldn't be 'blue skying' on such a platform.

I used to work for a successful and fairly well known Edinburgh businessman. He had an ability to 'get the job done' but he was an idiot. He had no idea of what was going on in the world and was totally impulsive. Some of the ideas he used to come up with were off the scale mental. What he did have though was a brilliant right hand woman. She was well liked and she had an uncanny ability to take his rubbish ideas, completely change them yet sell them back to him as though he had thought them up. She was also able to get him to beleieve he had rubbished the really terrible ideas even though it had been taken out of his hands.

The point I am making is that in a corporate boardroom environment all kinds of terrible ideas get thrown about. Successful people have a team in place that make sure they never see the light of day. The ones that slip through the net probably explains the huge chunk of his Dad's fortune Trump has lost. In his previous life Trump had a filter. He could walk into his New York office or a Florida clubhouse and declare 'I think disinfectant is a really great idea, we should look at selling it, it's really great. You know I really believe in it, I'm hearing lots of really great things, really great' and it would never see the light of day because he wasn't important enough for people to notice. If they did it would be a sideshow about what the 'maverick billionaire' was suggesting.

He has a habit of going totally off script when he speaks, he's a rambler and that becomes a dangerous mix when you remember he is also a moron. It looks to me like he has read or heard something about using bleach, UV light and disinfectant to fight the virus and has decided he likes the sound of it and has gone off on his own tangent and said it out loud. In his own head it probably is just 'throwing an idea out there'.

The problem for me isn't so much the terrible idea. That happens, both in business and behind closed doors in politics. It's the fact that the man is so unsuited to his position that he didn't realise the harm he was capable of doing by 'blue skying' publicly. What was once a harmless corporate 'idea shower' now has potentially lethal consequences.

[Kato]

I actually understand what the poster quoted is saying. I'll counter that by saying Trump most definitely shouldn't be 'blue skying' on such a platform.

I used to work for a successful and fairly well known Edinburgh businessman. He had an ability to 'get the job done' but he was an idiot. He had no idea of what was going on in the world and was totally impulsive. Some of the ideas he used to come up with were off the scale mental. What he did have though was a brilliant right hand woman. She was well liked and she had an uncanny ability to take his rubbish ideas, completely change them yet sell them back to him as though he had thought them up. She was also able to get him to beleieve he had rubbished the really terrible ideas even though it had been taken out of his hands.

The point I am making is that in a corporate boardroom environment all kinds of terrible ideas get thrown about. Successful people have a team in place that make sure they never see the light of day. The ones that slip through the net probably explains the huge chunk of his Dad's fortune Trump has lost. In his previous life Trump had a filter. He could walk into his New York office or a Florida clubhouse and declare 'I think disinfectant is a really great idea, we should look at selling it, it's really great. You know I really believe in it, I'm hearing lots of really great things, really great' and it would never see the light of day because he wasn't important enough for people to notice. If they did it would be a sideshow about what the 'maverick billionaire' was suggesting.

He has a habit of going totally off script when he speaks, he's a rambler and that becomes a dangerous mix when you remember he is also a moron. It looks to me like he has read or heard something about using bleach, UV light and disinfectant to fight the virus and has decided he likes the sound of it and has gone off on his own tangent and said it out loud. In his own head it probably is just 'throwing an idea out there'.

The problem for me isn't so much the terrible idea. That happens, both in business and behind closed doors in politics. It's the fact that the man is so unsuited to his position that he didn't realise the harm he was capable of doing by 'blue skying' publicly. What was once a harmless corporate 'idea shower' now has potentially lethal consequences.Hes a twat. Anyone defending him or imagining he has redeeming qualities is someone who has been fooled.

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[Pretty Boy]

Hes a twat. Anyone defending him or imagining he has redeeming qualities is someone who has been fooled.

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Thankfully almost no one on here seems to be doing that.

[-Jonesy-]

Didn’t take any questions on yesterday’s briefing, read a bunch of his usual pish and stormed out

[Kato]

Thankfully almost no one on here seems to be doing that.Almost.

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[spike220]

Thankfully almost no one on here seems to be doing that.

It looks like he is shoe in for a second term. A lot if America support him. I dont think we are getting the full story from MSM on his presidency. He has made it very clear that he his at war with a lot of MSM.

[ACLeith]

Pam Ayres (@PamAyres) Tweeted:

At last, we have a cure for all!
Ailments large and ailments small,
Good health is not beyond my reach,
If I inject myself with bleach.

Radiant, I’ll prance along,
Every trace of limescale gone,
With disinfectant as my friend,
Like him,
I’m clean around the bend

[lapsedhibee]

Pam Ayres (@PamAyres) Tweeted:

At last, we have a cure for all!
Ailments large and ailments small,
Good health is not beyond my reach,
If I inject myself with bleach.

Radiant, I’ll prance along,
Every trace of limescale gone,
With disinfectant as my friend,
Like him,
I’m clean around the bend
:greengrin

[CapitalGreen]

Still a better option than the Clintons!

Why?

[bigwheel]

Still a better option than the Clintons!

Never...like them or hate them , they are skilled statesman/woman- he’s just a state

[Bostonhibby]

Thankfully almost no one on here seems to be doing that.He's the bully who's usually the boss who will superimpose his view or off the cuff idea onto any meeting, however irrelevant or superfluous it is. Often the real solution doesn't get aired or is delayed.

He wants folk to know he's there and the top man, there's really no point in any of the experts being there, they probably get together afterwards and find a way forward like you say above. If it works or is credible the erse will bask in the reflected glory.

Generally there's no point in inviting the guy to meetings or having him involved with the experts and the doers. They could sit him outside with an ice cream, a few choice magazines and Tom & Jerry on TV, just a shame he's the president of the United States.

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[Future17]

Still a better option than the Clintons!

:troll:

[Sir David Gray]

Still a better option than the Clintons!


:troll:

In all seriousness it's a damning indictment on Hillary Clinton that she couldn't win the last election.

I've never come across someone who's less suited to being Head of State than Donald Trump and she still couldn't beat him.

[grunt]

In all seriousness it's a damning indictment on Hillary Clinton that she couldn't win the last election. I've never come across someone who's less suited to being Head of State than Donald Trump and she still couldn't beat him.She got more votes than him?

[lapsedhibee]

In all seriousness it's a damning indictment on Hillary Clinton that she couldn't win the last election.

I've never come across someone who's less suited to being Head of State than Donald Trump and she still couldn't beat him.

Didn't she get 3 million more votes than him, something like that? :dunno:

[Sir David Gray]

She got more votes than him?


Didn't she get 3 million more votes than him, something like that? :dunno:

She did but even with the way the American elections work, I would have expected someone even remotely competent to have won that against Trump.

[Slavers]

Why?

Maybe because the Clinton's are linked with human trafficking and made regular visits to a known paedophiles private island.

[Bristolhibby]

Didn't she get 3 million more votes than him, something like that? :dunno:

Something that irks the **** out of Trump to this day.

TBH in a straight shootout that the American Presidential Elections are. It should be the popular vote.

The college system is a joke and disenfranchises millions of Americans.

I have family in Texas who are 100% Democrats. Yet their vote is ignored in the all or nothing college system In Red Texas.

J

[-Jonesy-]

It looks like he is shoe in for a second term. A lot if America support him. I dont think we are getting the full story from MSM on his presidency. He has made it very clear that he his at war with a lot of MSM.

Don’t need to get any story from the media, everything I need to make my mind up about trump comes directly from his moronic, bigoted, narcissist mouth.

[Mibbes Aye]

She did but even with the way the American elections work, I would have expected someone even remotely competent to have won that against Trump.

It is all about the key swing states in the North - There is a band that runs Wisconsin-Indiana-Michigan-Ohio-Pennsylvania. They all went to the Republicans in 2016 but if the Democrats could turn three of them then they win.

Alternatively, if the Democrats can win Florida then they probably only need one of those northern states.

That’s all based on the other states opting the same way as they did in 2016 but most are set in stone. What could shift things in the South is Biden, who scores massively highly with black voters due to his time as Obama’s VP. That might be enough to swing a state his way. I still fancy Andrew Cuomo for a late run and if he goes with Kamala Harris on the ticket, then that creates the possibility of swinging a Southern state, which have been Republican for decades.

It is astonishing to hink that the South was a safe base for the Democratic Party for a long time.

[Bishop Hibee]

You could bring any schmuck off the street and they’d do better than that roaster. I’d have said he was a certainty for a second term but bleachgate May finish him.

[Captain Trips]

Purely for the folks on here who live in USA. Prior to Covid 19 in general was the USA from its own citizens pov in a better or worse state than previous regime?

[spike220]

Maybe because the Clinton's are linked with human trafficking and made regular visits to a known paedophiles private island.

yup anyone that spends 10 mins researching the Clintons online could figure that out. But lets put all our our faith in mainstream media.

https://youtu.be/MY8Nfzcn1qQ

Tip of the iceberg:

[spike220]

Something that irks the **** out of Trump to this day.

TBH in a straight shootout that the American Presidential Elections are. It should be the popular vote.

The college system is a joke and disenfranchises millions of Americans.

I have family in Texas who are 100% Democrats. Yet their vote is ignored in the all or nothing college system In Red Texas.

J

Saved more lives that any president in living memory.

[spike220]

Maybe because the Clinton's are linked with human trafficking and made regular visits to a known paedophiles private island.

yup

[spike220]

That is why folks we end up with a silent majority. The minority still offended that democracy worked and Trump was elected. Then they tried and failed to impeach him!

But hey dont let the facts stand in the way of your emotions.

[spike220]

In all seriousness it's a damning indictment on Hillary Clinton that she couldn't win the last election.

I've never come across someone who's less suited to being Head of State than Donald Trump and she still couldn't beat him.

In no way is he perfect just better than the establishment. One look to number 10 in London shows you everything you need. All friends playing on different teams.

[Barney McGrew]

That is why folks we end up with a silent majority. The minority still offended that democracy worked and Trump was elected. Then they tried and failed to impeach him!

But hey dont let the facts stand in the way of your emotions.

The majority didn’t vote for Trump though.

[spike220]

The majority didn’t vote for Trump though.

Democracy has spoken. The system has elected the president. By participating in the vote the people legitimized the electoral system. He came out on top. A large number of people must therefore have voted for him. Too late to agrue the process is flawed.

The silent majority is defined as: an unspecified large group of people in a country or group who do not express their opinions publicly. Nothing to do with vote margins.

[bigwheel]

That is why folks we end up with a silent majority. The minority still offended that democracy worked and Trump was elected. Then they tried and failed to impeach him!

But hey dont let the facts stand in the way of your emotions.

I don’t see anyone offended that democracy worked....people are just rightly challenging the effectiveness and quality of him as a world leader. The fact he is creating more hate, inequality and prejudice will be recognised for many years to come.


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[Pretty Boy]

Democracy has spoken. The system has elected the president. By participating in the vote the people legitimized the electoral system. He came out on top. A large number of people must therefore have voted for him. Too late to agrue the process is flawed.

The silent majority is defined as: an unspecified large group of people in a country or group who do not express their opinions publicly. Nothing to do with vote margins.

There is no silent majority with Trump though. His supporters are every bit as vocal and proud of their allegiance as those who oppose him. As a movement they have legitimised the alt right and opinions that would have been considered taboo a few years ago are now openly expressed.

[Barney McGrew]

Democracy has spoken. The system has elected the president. By participating in the vote the people legitimized the electoral system. He came out on top. A large number of people must therefore have voted for him. Too late to agrue the process is flawed.

The silent majority is defined as: an unspecified large group of people in a country or group who do not express their opinions publicly. Nothing to do with vote margins.

I didn’t argue anything.

[McD]

Saved more lives that any president in living memory.


please enlighten us...


the man is a bigot, a racist, a narcissist, an egotist, incapable of listening to advice or criticism, denies any opinion or position that doesn’t agree with his as fake news, speaks without any thought for the consequences of his words (the last few days alone show this), and is obsessed with everyone believing that he’s bigger, better, and more popular than any president ever. A dangerous collection of personality traits for someone holding the office he does

[-Jonesy-]

Spike220 you countered everyone’s opinion of trump apart from mine.
It was that we don’t need the media to form an opinion of him as a person as he directly shows his ego, lack of intelligence and narrow mindedness almost every time he speaks freely.
You did everyone else and I feel left out.

[Ronniekirk]

His Fake News Mantra as a tactic does my head in He chooses to stand up and at times ramble and attack others
But when he is picked up fir some of his ridiculous comments he doesn’t want to take the criticism
His comments were shown live on T V They are there fir all to hear
He then backtracks and makes up a pathetic excuse like it was a sarcastic comment to Wynd up a Hostile Fake Press Pack He can’t stand Women scoring a legitimate point against him and his dustbin and contempt fir them is clear to see
More worryingly he has spoken to Boris ( his great friend ) who will be back to lead us out of lockdown on Monday and they both agree they need to cooperate
So will be interesting to see the tact they both take now
Will Boris allow Flights to Alaska for his Tory Party Sponsors to allow them to eat out in a Restraunt ( Now that is clearly Sarcasm )


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[-Jonesy-]

That is why folks we end up with a silent majority. The minority still offended that democracy worked and Trump was elected. Then they tried and failed to impeach him!

But hey dont let the facts stand in the way of your emotions.

They tried to impeach him and failed because the servile republican senate prevented anything approaching a fair and open trial.

[McD]

They tried to impeach him and failed because the servile republican senate prevented anything approaching a fair and open trial.


:agree:

[Captain Trips]

please enlighten us...


the man is a bigot, a racist, a narcissist, an egotist, incapable of listening to advice or criticism, denies any opinion or position that doesn’t agree with his as fake news, speaks without any thought for the consequences of his words (the last few days alone show this), and is obsessed with everyone believing that he’s bigger, better, and more popular than any president ever. A dangerous collection of personality traits for someone holding the office he does

I am interested until the Covid crisis what had Trump being in charge do to the way of life for us here? What effect has he had to our way of life in UK? More tax? Less wages? Economy issues? Are you as an individual worse off because of him?

How has our life in UK in changed from Obama to Trump? I am curious to know from both UK and how Americans are better or worse off.

Have people stopped visiting USA because of how bad he is?

[lapsedhibee]

I am interested until the Covid crisis what had Trump being in charge do to the way of life for us here? What effect has he had to our way of life in UK? More tax? Less wages? Economy issues? Are you as an individual worse off because of him?

How has our life in UK in changed from Obama to Trump? I am curious to know from both UK and how Americans are better or worse off.

Undermined international, co-operating, institutions. Purely for his own electoral gain. So yes, as an individual looking ahead, I'm worse off.

[Captain Trips]

Undermined international, co-operating, institutions. Purely for his own electoral gain. So yes, as an individual looking ahead, I'm worse off.

Can you explain that please if you don't mind?

[lapsedhibee]

Can you explain that please if you don't mind?

Climate change, WHO, EU, for example.

[Dalianwanda]

yup anyone that spends 10 mins researching the Clintons online could figure that out. But lets put all our our faith in mainstream media.

https://youtu.be/MY8Nfzcn1qQ

Tip of the iceberg:

Watching youtube videos isn’t research no matter what it is your looking into. What methods are you using to fact check? Or just putting ‘clinton human trafficker’ into google?

[weecounty hibby]

In no way is he perfect just better than the establishment. One look to number 10 in London shows you everything you need. All friends playing on different teams.
That always makes me smile, just a wee bit mind. Trump is the epitome of the establishment. Multi Billionaire who looks after his friends and family in business and politics. Who was started in business with a loan if £1m from his dad. Not many people start if in life that way. Look at his friends list as well and you will see he is no better or worse than the Clintons. I am not trawling the internet for links or evidence of his wrong doings or thiers. Anti establishment my hoop!

[Captain Trips]

Climate change, WHO, EU, for example.

Ok

[spike220]

Climate change, WHO, EU, for example.

WHO undermined Trump when he wanted to close the boarders. They have blood on their hands. Trump wants only whats best for USA. NZ close the borders 2 days later and everyone celebrates the good leadership. Only because it suits their narrative. NB the NZ PM has strong communist ties and a poor human rights record.

[McD]

I am interested until the Covid crisis what had Trump being in charge do to the way of life for us here? What effect has he had to our way of life in UK? More tax? Less wages? Economy issues? Are you as an individual worse off because of him?

How has our life in UK in changed from Obama to Trump? I am curious to know from both UK and how Americans are better or worse off.

Have people stopped visiting USA because of how bad he is?


on a personal level, at the moment, no my finances haven’t been affected. However when he is openly provoking other nations (north Korea for example), consistently and without facts blaming other nationalities for his country’s ills (Mexicans), regularly threatening to step out of or damage organisations like the UN and WHO, amongst other behaviours that impact on the world’s population, then yes I’d say it’s fair comment to describe him as a negative affect on all of us

[spike220]

on a personal level, at the moment, no my finances haven’t been affected. However when he is openly provoking other nations (north Korea for example), consistently and without facts blaming other nationalities for his country’s ills (Mexicans), regularly threatening to step out of or damage organisations like the UN and WHO, amongst other behaviours that impact on the world’s population, then yes I’d say it’s fair comment to describe him as a negative affect on all of us

provoking North Korea, had Clinton won it would have been war. He visted North Korea and has walked a tight line to manage them with a silk glive in ine hand and hammer in the other.

[lapsedhibee]

WHO undermined Trump when he wanted to close the boarders. They have blood on their hands. Trump wants only whats best for USA. NZ close the borders 2 days later and everyone celebrates the good leadership. Only because it suits their narrative. NB the NZ PM has strong communist ties and a poor human rights record.
Totally agree that Ardern is a bit suspect. Her face is hardly orange at all. What's that all about? :dunno:

[Future17]

That is why folks we end up with a silent majority. The minority still offended that democracy worked and Trump was elected. Then they tried and failed to impeach him!

But hey dont let the facts stand in the way of your emotions.

I'm not really sure what "facts" you're referring to here? Or what point you're trying to make about a "silent majority"?

[-Jonesy-]

Scary how The most ardent of Trump supporters wear their ignorance like a badge of honour.

[HibernianJK]

WHO undermined Trump when he wanted to close the boarders. They have blood on their hands. Trump wants only whats best for USA. NZ close the borders 2 days later and everyone celebrates the good leadership. Only because it suits their narrative. NB the NZ PM has strong communist ties and a poor human rights record.

What on earth are you talking about?

[Hibrandenburg]

Democracy has spoken. The system has elected the president. By participating in the vote the people legitimized the electoral system. He came out on top. A large number of people must therefore have voted for him. Too late to agrue the process is flawed.

The silent majority is defined as: an unspecified large group of people in a country or group who do not express their opinions publicly. Nothing to do with vote margins.

Trump's core support is a large not so silent mixed bag of nuts, racists, religious zealots, misogynists, gun freaks, conspiracy theorists, homophobes, rednecks, corrupt businessmen, shysters, snakeoil salesmen, right wing bampots and a multitude of other freaks and egocentric misfits. When you gather all these nutters together then you guarantee a pretty solid base electorate. But just because the lunatics have taken over the asylum, doesn't mean they're right.

[Iain G]

WHO undermined Trump when he wanted to close the boarders. They have blood on their hands. Trump wants only whats best for USA. NZ close the borders 2 days later and everyone celebrates the good leadership. Only because it suits their narrative. NB the NZ PM has strong communist ties and a poor human rights record.

Do you work for Fake Fox News?

Trump wants America open for business so his false claims on his economic miracle can stand for the election campaigning. He does not want and has never wanted his own borders closed, it wouldn't show up well for his good bestest ever leadership.

[Iain G]

WHO undermined Trump when he wanted to close the boarders. They have blood on their hands. Trump wants only whats best for USA. NZ close the borders 2 days later and everyone celebrates the good leadership. Only because it suits their narrative. NB the NZ PM has strong communist ties and a poor human rights record.

Sorry but did you just accuse Jacinda Arden of being a communist!!

Whatever you are taking I suggest you lay off it for a wee while...

[Ozyhibby]

It looks like he is shoe in for a second term. A lot if America support him. I dont think we are getting the full story from MSM on his presidency. He has made it very clear that he his at war with a lot of MSM.

I haven’t seen a single poll that suggests this?


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[spike220]

Sorry but did you just accuse Jacinda Arden of being a communist!!

Whatever you are taking I suggest you lay off it for a wee while...

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12058818

It's not me suggesting it. I am just pointing out what others have said. I don't think it that simple. I happen to agree with several of these policy considerations of Arden. But certainly not all.

[CapitalGreen]

yup anyone that spends 10 mins researching the Clintons online could figure that out. But lets put all our our faith in mainstream media.

https://youtu.be/MY8Nfzcn1qQ

Tip of the iceberg:

Seems like you have been manipulated into believing whatever the alt-media tells you. You have been brainwashed like all the other sheep, ever thought about thinking for yourself instead of just believing everything you are spoon-fed by the alt-media? Wake up! You are being lied to by these alt-media grifters on YouTube who earn money per view via advertising. Let me guess, these grifters ask you to “make a donation” to their “cause” at the end of the video? The oldest grift in the book, selling a lie and then taking the money of gullible people.

[spike220]

Seems like you have been manipulated into believing whatever the alt-media tells you. You have been brainwashed like all the other sheep, ever thought about thinking for yourself instead of just believing everything you are spoon-fed by the alt-media? Wake up! You are being lied to by these alt-media grifters on YouTube who earn money per view via advertising. Let me guess, these grifters ask you to “make a donation” to their “cause” at the end of the video? The oldest grift in the book, selling a lie and then taking the money of gullible people.

I am not suggesting anyone should be believing anything. In fact that is the point I am trying to make. I don't believe any PM or president is all good or all bad. But when everyone is jumping on a bandwagon I like to to look at what others are saying.

[CapitalGreen]

I am not suggesting anyone should be believing anything. In fact that is the point I am trying to make. I don't believe any PM or president is all good or all bad. But when everyone is jumping on a bandwagon I like to to look at what others are saying.

This sounds exactly like what someone who has been drinking the alt-media kool-aid would say.

Also, I’m sorry to tell you this and it may be hard to hear but Donald Trump isn’t alternative or the “other” guy He is the president of the United States of America, that’s probably as mainstream as it gets buddy. He controls the world biggest military power. Christ, even before becoming president your guy was the star of the most mainstream reality tv show on mainstream US television.

Your alt-media brainwashing has convinced you that one billionaire American business man is less mainstream than another billionaire American businessman.

[Pretty Boy]

This sounds exactly like what someone who has been drinking the alt-media kool-aid would say.

Also, I’m sorry to tell you this and it may be hard to hear but Donald Trump isn’t alternative or the “other” guy He is the president of the United States of America, that’s probably as mainstream as it gets buddy. He controls the world biggest military power. Christ, even before becoming president your guy was the star of the most mainstream reality tv show on mainstream US television.

Your alt-media brainwashing has convinced you that one billionaire American business man is less mainstream than another billionaire American businessman.

Don't forgot the $320bn tax cuts for his corporate buddies. What an anti establishment hero!

[CapitalGreen]

https://www.nzherald.co.nz/nz/news/article.cfm?c_id=1&objectid=12058818

It's not me suggesting it. I am just pointing out what others have said. I don't think it that simple. I happen to agree with several of these policy considerations of Arden. But certainly not all.

By that logic, does that mean Donald Trump is also a communist?

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-columnists/donald-trumps-debt-to-china

[Kato]

This sounds exactly like what someone who has been drinking the alt-media kool-aid would say.

Also, I’m sorry to tell you this and it may be hard to hear but Donald Trump isn’t alternative or the “other” guy He is the president of the United States of America, that’s probably as mainstream as it gets buddy. He controls the world biggest military power. Christ, even before becoming president your guy was the star of the most mainstream reality tv show on mainstream US television.

Your alt-media brainwashing has convinced you that one billionaire American business man is less mainstream than another billionaire American businessman.So many bankruptcies with Trump as well, for a "successful" business man it's easy to believe hes a con man who plays the system and launders cash.

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[Bostonhibby]

Trump's core support is a large not so silent mixed bag of nuts, racists, religious zealots, misogynists, gun freaks, conspiracy theorists, homophobes, rednecks, corrupt businessmen, shysters, snakeoil salesmen, right wing bampots and a multitude of other freaks and egocentric misfits. When you gather all these nutters together then you guarantee a pretty solid base electorate. But just because the lunatics have taken over the asylum, doesn't mean they're right.It seems Boris quite likes him as well.

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[RyeSloan]

Now spitting the dummy because the media had the temerity to report his own words. Oh and because some people occasionally ask him awkward questions.

How anybody, no matter their politics, can remotely defend this guy I have no idea.

[Smartie]

It seems Boris quite likes him as well.

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He makes Boris look competent by comparison. I can't decide whether it's better for Boris to have an imbecile in the White House or someone incredibly competent - someone with the ability to guide and help him but someone who has the potential to show him up.

One thing is for sure - the UK, in it's post-Brexit self-harm era, we could do with a strong, competent, outward looking USA to call an ally. That is something we'll never have with Trump.


Now spitting the dummy because the media had the temerity to report his own words. Oh and because some people occasionally ask him awkward questions.

How anybody, no matter their politics, can remotely defend this guy I have no idea.

He's indefensible. You can still just about muster up respect for the office that he holds, see past the fact that he's an utter imbecile and just get on with it, but it is impossible to condone this guy, his behaviour, his actions or his words.

[Kato]

If some random doughnut appeared on TV advocating ingesting bleaches or putting yourself under an extremely strong UV light to kill this thing the reaction would rightly be one of horror. This donkey says it and his supporters twist all logic to condone him.

Dinny get it.

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[hibsbollah]

If some random doughnut appeared on TV advocating ingesting bleaches or putting yourself under an extremely strong UV light to kill this thing the reaction would rightly be one of horror. This donkey says it and his supporters twist all logic to condone him.

Dinny get it.

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With Trump its a character thing. We've all encountered people with a political compass totally opposite ends to our own, but you can respect those views if they are genuinely held and move past that to have friendships and enjoy their company anyway. But with Trump you just know he's actually of bad character. And like you, I cant believe how seemingly normal folk can defend him. Far less almost the entirety of the GOP, historically and supposedly the home of east coast yankee respectability. He's just downright bad.

[McD]

provoking North Korea, had Clinton won it would have been war. He visted North Korea and has walked a tight line to manage them with a silk glive in ine hand and hammer in the other.


a few points to reply to:

- can you provide proof that Clinton would have forced a war?

- do you accept that by provoking North Korea then Trump was risking a war? A war he would have been responsible for starting

- you’ve ignored everything else in the post, so can we take it that you agree with the rest of it?

[CapitalGreen]

a few points to reply to:

- can you provide proof that Clinton would have forced a war?

- do you accept that by provoking North Korea then Trump was risking a war? A war he would have been responsible for starting

- you’ve ignored everything else in the post, so can we take it that you agree with the rest of it?

Good luck getting a reply, as usual when the alt-media narrative they have have been brainwashed into believing is challenged they disappear.

[Iain G]

Good luck getting a reply, as usual when the alt-media narrative they have have been brainwashed into believing is challenged they disappear.

Bloody flat earthers 😊

[McD]

Good luck getting a reply, as usual when the alt-media narrative they have have been brainwashed into believing is challenged they disappear.


:aok: I know, but I always feel the need to reply and ask, because when you don’t they take that as you accepting their “facts” as the truth

[Hibs Class]

Scary how The most ardent of Trump supporters wear their ignorance like a badge of honour.


100%. Trump and the pro-Trump “media” have emboldened morons who wear their ill-informed xenophobic ignorance with pride without any sense of irony.

[JimBHibees]

WHO undermined Trump when he wanted to close the boarders. They have blood on their hands. Trump wants only whats best for USA. NZ close the borders 2 days later and everyone celebrates the good leadership. Only because it suits their narrative. NB the NZ PM has strong communist ties and a poor human rights record.

Wow.

[spike220]

Wow.

:fishin::fishin::fishin::halowitch:

[CapitalGreen]

:fishin::fishin::fishin::halowitch:

Why are you pretending you are fishing or stirring the pot now? Earlier you posted a link to a news article (from a mainstream media publication too) trying to back up your point about Ahern being a communist. Are you taking deflection techniques off billionaire businessman, commander in chief of the worlds most powerful military and “leader of the free world” Donald Trump? Humiliating yourself and then claiming it was just sarcasm all along?

[spike220]

Why are you pretending you are fishing or stirring the pot now? Earlier you posted a link to a news article (from a mainstream media publication too) trying to back up your point about Ahern being a communist. Are you taking deflection techniques off billionaire businessman, commander in chief of the worlds most powerful military and “leader of the free world” Donald Trump? Humiliating yourself and then claiming it was just sarcasm all along?

30 secs of research on Google my friend!

Sorry you got sucked in! :)

[CapitalGreen]

30 secs of research on Google my friend!

Sorry you got sucked in! :)

You don’t even have the wearwithal or courage to back yourself or your opinions up. Spineless and pathetic.

[Hibrandenburg]

30 secs of research on Google my friend!

Sorry you got sucked in! :)

I could find out that the earth is flat in 30 seconds on Google, doesn't stop it being absolute drivel.

[spike220]

You don’t even have the wearwithal or courage to back yourself or your opinions up. Spineless and pathetic.

Thanks for playing!

[CapitalGreen]

Thanks for playing!

“Thanks for playing!”

https://i.imgur.com/dTcAHZc_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

[Ronniekirk]

I could find out that the earth is flat in 30 seconds on Google, doesn't stop it being absolute drivel.

The Flat Liners think social distancing could push some people over the Edge [emoji849]




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[Pretty Boy]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/trump-coronavirus-disinfectant-republican-attack-ad-covid-19-a9484131.html

A couple of Republican groups turning their fire on Trump.

And the below is a bit out of date but it's a prominent Evangelical Christian publication condemning Trump. Some of the religious aspects may not be to everyone's tastes but the general tone is agreeable:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2019/december-web-only/trump-should-be-removed-from-office.html

[lapsedhibee]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/us-election/trump-coronavirus-disinfectant-republican-attack-ad-covid-19-a9484131.html

A couple of Republican groups turning their fire on Trump.

And the below is a bit out of date but it's a prominent Evangelical Christian publication condemning Trump. Some of the religious aspects may not be to everyone's tastes but the general tone is agreeable:

https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2019/december-web-only/trump-should-be-removed-from-office.html

Confusing Pulitzer prizes with Nobel prizes and then misspelling Nobel as Noble, now claiming he didn't make any mistake at all and that he was really suggesting that critical award-winning journalists should return their Noble prizes. And again puzzled that no-one understands sarcasm.

America, do what you're best at and somebody just take him out.

[Tobias Funke]

“Thanks for playing!”

https://i.imgur.com/dTcAHZc_d.jpg?maxwidth=640&shape=thumb&fidelity=medium

😂😂😂😂😂😂😂😂

👍🏼👍🏼

[-Jonesy-]

30 secs of research on Google my friend!

Sorry you got sucked in! :)

What a fud

[Hibee87]

At it again. Saying 'someone' could have stopped this but choose not to, eh?

Usual attack on China after he has been exposed. His disinfectant chat was sarcastic, like the whole world didn't see it, and he takes no responsibility for the people who have drank disinfectant 😂

[Kato]

An essay by Fintan O’Toole of The Irish Times, April 25, 2020

Over more than two centuries, the United States has stirred a very wide range of feelings in the rest of the world: love and hatred, fear and hope, envy and contempt, awe and anger. But there is one emotion that has never been directed towards the US until now: pity.

However bad things are for most other rich democracies, it is hard not to feel sorry for Americans. Most of them did not vote for Donald Trump in 2016. Yet they are locked down with a malignant narcissist who, instead of protecting his people from Covid-19, has amplified its lethality. The country Trump promised to make great again has never in its history seemed so pitiful.
Will American prestige ever recover from this shameful episode? The US went into the coronavirus crisis with immense advantages: precious weeks of warning about what was coming, the world’s best concentration of medical and scientific expertise, effectively limitless financial resources, a military complex with stunning logistical capacity and most of the world’s leading technology corporations. Yet it managed to make itself the global epicentre of the pandemic.
As the American writer George Packer puts it in the current edition of the Atlantic, “The United States reacted ... like Pakistan or Belarus – like a country with shoddy infrastructure and a dysfunctional government whose leaders were too corrupt or stupid to head off mass suffering.”

It is one thing to be powerless in the face of a natural disaster, quite another to watch vast power being squandered in real time – wilfully, malevolently, vindictively. It is one thing for governments to fail (as, in one degree or another, most governments did), quite another to watch a ruler and his supporters actively spread a deadly virus. Trump, his party and Rupert Murdoch’s Fox News became vectors of the pestilence.

The grotesque spectacle of the president openly inciting people (some of them armed) to take to the streets to oppose the restrictions that save lives is the manifestation of a political death wish. What are supposed to be daily briefings on the crisis, demonstrative of national unity in the face of a shared challenge, have been used by Trump merely to sow confusion and division. They provide a recurring horror show in which all the neuroses that haunt the American subconscious dance naked on live TV.
If the plague is a test, its ruling political nexus ensured that the US would fail it at a terrible cost in human lives. In the process, the idea of the US as the world’s leading nation – an idea that has shaped the past century – has all but evaporated.
Other than the Trump impersonator Jair Bolsonaro in Brazil, who is now looking to the US as the exemplar of anything other than what not to do? How many people in Düsseldorf or Dublin are wishing they lived in Detroit or Dallas?
It is hard to remember now but, even in 2017, when Trump took office, the conventional wisdom in the US was that the Republican Party and the broader framework of US political institutions would prevent him from doing too much damage. This was always a delusion, but the pandemic has exposed it in the most savage ways.

Abject surrender
What used to be called mainstream conservatism has not absorbed Trump – he has absorbed it. Almost the entire right-wing half of American politics has surrendered abjectly to him. It has sacrificed on the altar of wanton stupidity the most basic ideas of responsibility, care and even safety.
Thus, even at the very end of March, 15 Republican governors had failed to order people to stay at home or to close non-essential businesses. In Alabama, for example, it was not until April 3rd that governor Kay Ivey finally issued a stay-at-home order.
In Florida, the state with the highest concentration of elderly people with underlying conditions, governor Ron DeSantis, a Trump mini-me, kept the beach resorts open to students travelling from all over the US for spring break parties. Even on April 1st, when he issued restrictions, DeSantis exempted religious services and “recreational activities”.
Georgia governor Brian Kemp, when he finally issued a stay-at-home order on April 1st, explained: “We didn’t know that [the virus can be spread by people without symptoms] until the last 24 hours.”
This is not mere ignorance – it is deliberate and homicidal stupidity. There is, as the demonstrations this week in US cities have shown, plenty of political mileage in denying the reality of the pandemic. It is fuelled by Fox News and far-right internet sites, and it reaps for these politicians millions of dollars in donations, mostly (in an ugly irony) from older people who are most vulnerable to the coronavirus.

It draws on a concoction of conspiracy theories, hatred of science, paranoia about the “deep state” and religious providentialism (God will protect the good folks) that is now very deeply infused in the mindset of the American right.
Trump embodies and enacts this mindset, but he did not invent it. The US response to the coronavirus crisis has been paralysed by a contradiction that the Republicans have inserted into the heart of US democracy. On the one hand, they want to control all the levers of governmental power. On the other they have created a popular base by playing on the notion that government is innately evil and must not be trusted.
The contradiction was made manifest in two of Trump’s statements on the pandemic: on the one hand that he has “total authority”, and on the other that “I don’t take responsibility at all”. Caught between authoritarian and anarchic impulses, he is incapable of coherence.

Fertile ground
But this is not just Donald Trump. The crisis has shown definitively that Trump’s presidency is not an aberration. It has grown on soil long prepared to receive it. The monstrous blossoming of misrule has structure and purpose and strategy behind it.
There are very powerful interests who demand “freedom” in order to do as they like with the environment, society and the economy. They have infused a very large part of American culture with the belief that “freedom” is literally more important than life. My freedom to own assault weapons trumps your right not to get shot at school. Now, my freedom to go to the barber (“I Need a Haircut” read one banner this week in St Paul, Minnesota) trumps your need to avoid infection.
Usually when this kind of outlandish idiocy is displaying itself, there is the comforting thought that, if things were really serious, it would all stop. People would sober up. Instead, a large part of the US has hit the bottle even harder.
And the president, his party and their media allies keep supplying the drinks. There has been no moment of truth, no shock of realisation that the antics have to end. No one of any substance on the US right has stepped in to say: get a grip, people are dying here.

That is the mark of how deep the trouble is for the US – it is not just that Trump has treated the crisis merely as a way to feed tribal hatreds but that this behaviour has become normalised. When the freak show is live on TV every evening, and the star is boasting about his ratings, it is not really a freak show any more. For a very large and solid bloc of Americans, it is reality.
And this will get worse before it gets better. Trump has at least eight more months in power. In his inaugural address in 2017, he evoked “American carnage” and promised to make it stop. But now that the real carnage has arrived, he is revelling in it. He is in his element.

As things get worse, he will pump more hatred and falsehood, more death-wish defiance of reason and decency, into the groundwater. If a new administration succeeds him in 2021, it will have to clean up the toxic dump he leaves behind. If he is re-elected, toxicity will have become the lifeblood of American politics.

Either way, it will be a long time before the rest of the world can imagine America being great again.

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[lapsedhibee]

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Excellent from O'Toole, as usual.

[-Jonesy-]

Excellent from O'Toole, as usual.

Is Trumps behaviour a political death wish though? He’s proved time and time again that anything that shocks most level headed moderate people simply emboldens and even validates his right wing base who seem devoid of critical thought.

[hibsbollah]

Is Trumps behaviour a political death wish though? He’s proved time and time again that anything that shocks most level headed moderate people simply emboldens and even validates his right wing base who seem devoid of critical thought.


I didnt read it as a death wish for Trump, more as a death wish for America's place as 'worlds leading nation'. The article is very good. Whether he can use his combination of superior analytics and superior wealth to beat the Worst Democratic Party Candidate In Living Memory is one political event I just cant get excited about this time round. Im sure whatever happens it wont be a dignified exit.

[Jim44]

My knowledge and understanding of American politics is sub par, but it seems unforgivable, to me, that the Democrats have not managed to get their act together by nurturing an opposition of young, bright, strong and competitive candidates who could challenge Trump and his browbeaten eunuchs at the next election.

[stuart-farquhar]

My knowledge and understanding of American politics is sub par, but it seems unforgivable, to me, that the Democrats have not managed to get their act together by nurturing an opposition of young, bright, strong and competitive candidates who could challenge Trump and his browbeaten eunuchs at the next election.
Tbf unless you have lived in the USA for a decent period, and in more than one state, it's difficult to comprehend how people actually are politically. The notion of freedom among a huge number of Americans revolves around guns. Yes it does. There are pockets of sanity on both the east and west coast metropolitan areas. So called liberals, what we in Europe regard as the norm. Personally I love the USA and spend lots of time there with my family. It is a very different place from what you see in movies and from visiting as a holidaymaker. Oh that we could right now!!

[HibernianJK]

My knowledge and understanding of American politics is sub par, but it seems unforgivable, to me, that the Democrats have not managed to get their act together by nurturing an opposition of young, bright, strong and competitive candidates who could challenge Trump and his browbeaten eunuchs at the next election.

It’s mostly money. To run a campaign costs and exorbitant amount of money which requires funding. Candidates usually obtain funding through contacts/companies/lobbies they have had relationships with for 25/30 years. For a younger person to run a campaign would be difficult with funding far inferior to his or hers opponents even if they are the better candidate.

There were some good younger candidates on the Democrats ballot this time around which probably lacked exposure. Again this is done through funding and advertising. As someone already mentioned. Alexandria Ocasio Cortez could be the next young hope already with a huge fan base and social media presence. In another 8 years when she’s eligible to run, she could be the one.

[McD]

It’s mostly money. To run a campaign costs and exorbitant amount of money which requires funding. Candidates usually obtain funding through contacts/companies/lobbies they have had relationships with for 25/30 years. For a younger person to run a campaign would be difficult with funding far inferior to his or hers opponents even if they are the better candidate.

There were some good younger candidates on the Democrats ballot this time around which probably lacked exposure. Again this is done through funding and advertising. As someone already mentioned. Alexandria Ocasio Cortez could be the next young hope already with a huge fan base and social media presence. In another 8 years when she’s eligible to run, she could be the one.



What eligibility is needed to run? Not being wide, I'm genuienly curious as I didn't realise there was eligibility to meet

[Pretty Boy]

What eligibility is needed to run? Not being wide, I'm genuienly curious as I didn't realise there was eligibility to meet

You have to be at least 35. She's only 30 so won't be eligible until the 2028 election.

You also have to be a natural born US citizen and have been resident in the US for at least 14 years.

[McD]

You have to be at least 35. She's only 30 so won't be eligible until the 2028 election.

You also have to be a natural born US citizen and have been resident in the US for at least 14 years.



Thanks :aok:

I knew you had to be a natural born US citizen, didn't know about the other points though, cheers

[Ozyhibby]

What eligibility is needed to run? Not being wide, I'm genuienly curious as I didn't realise there was eligibility to meet

You need to be 35.
AOC would be an amazing candidate but is too far left to win. If she can tack towards the centre she is a very impressive politician.


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[IWasThere2016]

My knowledge and understanding of American politics is sub par, but it seems unforgivable, to me, that the Democrats have not managed to get their act together by nurturing an opposition of young, bright, strong and competitive candidates who could challenge Trump and his browbeaten eunuchs at the next election.

This.

My politics are marginally right of centre - but the US doesn't need a Republican President.

They need a calm, measured, intelligent Democrat more than ever IMHO.

Their society is broken and that utter d**khead Trump is a huge part of the problem and no part of the solution whatsoever.

[HibernianJK]

You need to be 35.
AOC would be an amazing candidate but is too far left to win. If she can tack towards the centre she is a very impressive politician.


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There’s a fair few Americans I know (through forums) that think by the time she is eligible to run she might be very electable candidate. The next wave of eligible voters are exactly the sort of people she is attracting.

[heretoday]

Trump looks like being dragged away by men in white coats soon.

[Kato]

Trump looks like being dragged away by men in white coats soon.Men in white coats applying the best possible science.

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[StevieC]

New York cops had to break up a mass gathering at a funeral .. for a rabbi that had died from Coronavirus!!

Only in America

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/04/28/nyregion/hasidic-funeral-coronavirus-de-blasio.html

[Ozyhibby]

https://twitter.com/danielnewman/status/1255949280814215170?s=21

States start to fall apart when the lose the monopoly on the use of force. America heading in a dangerous direction.


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[Kato]

https://twitter.com/danielnewman/status/1255949280814215170?s=21

States start to fall apart when the lose the monopoly on the use of force. America heading in a dangerous direction.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkOh dear, maybe some of those gunmen will catch it.

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[Colr]

Oh dear, maybe some of those gunmen will catch it.

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If they were black they’d have been shot by police before they got to the front door!

[Barney McGrew]

He’s fuelled the story about the virus starting from a Wuhan lab overnight by saying he’s seen evidence suggesting that’s the case - in direct contradiction to what his own security organisations have said.

Who to believe. :hmmm:

[hibsbollah]

He’s fuelled the story about the virus starting from a Wuhan lab overnight by saying he’s seen evidence suggesting that’s the case - in direct contradiction to what his own security organisations have said.

Who to believe. :hmmm:

I posted a link to a poll a week or so ago reporting 29% of Americans believe the lab conspiracy theory. Deflect,blame, repeat.

[Ronniekirk]

He’s fuelled the story about the virus starting from a Wuhan lab overnight by saying he’s seen evidence suggesting that’s the case - in direct contradiction to what his own security organisations have said.

Who to believe. :hmmm:

This is part of the problem now He is so consummate now at lying and using the term Fake News ,thst when he may be correct you tend to dismiss him
They two posts from the Japanese Professor is a good example
One saying here is the evidence to say it’s a Man Made Virus
The other refuting he was responsible for that post
Our Goverment says we are sticking just now to Lockdown But new Flights are today leaving from Luton Airport on top of the thousands that have continued unabated since lockdown started
Wetherspoons tweet we will be open in June etc etc
Don’t wear Masks , Wear Masks
The level of Speeding Traffic on the roads in paisley yesterday after Nicola reinforced it was growing too fast and wasn’t all essential ,confirms more people are taking risks and perhaps putting others at risk
I haven’t seen much Police presence at all during Lockdown so it gives the impression that we aren’t really serious about enforcing lockdown
If the R rate starts creeping up we will find ourselves back in a more severe lockdown
If people would only stick to what’s being asked we could of got F rate in Scotland down to 0 .25 and then been in a great position to plan for and relax lockdown properly
I do hope people start pulling back and listen and act
It’s people being Selfish that will possibly undermine all the good work we have done


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[Hibby Bairn]

I posted a link to a poll a week or so ago reporting 29% of Americans believe the lab conspiracy theory. Deflect,blame, repeat.

38% of Americans would not drink Corona beer for fear of infection. A further 16% were confused as to whether it would lead to infection.

😳

[weecounty hibby]

Pretty worrying stuff in the state's just now with armed "militia" (terrorists if they had been any other colour) in the Michigan state building. Sadly they seem to have the support of the president.

[G B Young]

He’s fuelled the story about the virus starting from a Wuhan lab overnight by saying he’s seen evidence suggesting that’s the case - in direct contradiction to what his own security organisations have said.

Who to believe. :hmmm:

Trump's a loose cannon, but I don't think National Intelligence have ruled out the outbreak being due to an accident in a Wuhan lab? What they have ruled out is it being man-made or genetically modified.

The Office of the Director of National Intelligence said: “The intelligence community will continue to rigorously examine emerging information and intelligence to determine whether the outbreak began through contact with infected animals or if it was the result of an accident at a laboratory in Wuhan.”

[Ronniekirk]

38% of Americans would not drink Corona beer for fear of infection. A further 16% were confused as to whether it would lead to infection.

[emoji15]

Well I am drinking it by the case loads d never felt better
It’s completely irrational


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[Hibrandenburg]

Trump's a loose cannon, but I don't think National Intelligence have ruled out the outbreak being due to an accident in a Wuhan lab? What they have ruled out is it being man-made or genetically modified.

The Office of the Director of National Intelligence said: “The intelligence community will continue to rigorously examine emerging information and intelligence to determine whether the outbreak began through contact with infected animals or if it was the result of an accident at a laboratory in Wuhan.”

So the virus just happened to naturally evolve in a test tube in a Wuhan lab? I'm too thick to understand what you're getting at.

[AT8]

So the virus just happened to naturally evolve in a test tube in a Wuhan lab? I'm too thick to understand what you're getting at.

It means the Chinese may have been studying the virus in the lab and safety protocols weren't followed which allowed the virus to escape.

[Pretty Boy]

It means the Chinese may have been studying the virus in the lab and safety protocols weren't followed which allowed the virus to escape.

There is a precedent for it happening.

There was a death from Smallpox in 1978 in Birmingham, the lady involved worked in a building which had a lab studying the disease and it was traced to there. 300 people were quarantined and that saved us from a wider outbreak.

In 2014 the FDA quite literally found a box of vials containing live smallpox virus that was unaccounted for. They were transported in an unapproved way and one was broken. Thankfully it was a control specimen.

The CDC inadvertently sent H5N1 samples to a lab and that was only discovered when the lab in question got unexpected results from an experiment. Add to that 75 employees from the same organisation were suspected of being exposed to anthrax the same year.

In recent years in China there has been scandals involving both contaminated baby milk and faulty vaccines. Both were the subject of attempted cover ups.

I don't believe it's what has happened here but it's undoubtedly something that can and does happen.

[JimBHibees]

Extract from Guardian. WHO reports numerous scientists assured virus is natural. Think I know who I believe.


The executive director of the World Health Organization reiterated that the group believes coronavirus came about naturally, despite Trump’s dubious claims that he has seen evidence it was created in a Chinese government lab.

“We have listened again and again to numerous scientists who looked at the sequences and looked at this virus and we are assured that this virus is natural in origin,” WHO executive director Michael J. Ryan said Friday.

Just yesterday, Trump claimed he had seen evidence that coronavirus was made in a lab in China’s Wuhan region, which saw the first outbreak of the virus. Asked what evidence he had seen, Trump said, “I can’t tell you that. I’m not allowed to tell you that.”

The president’s comments came hours after the office of the director of national intelligence said in a statement that the intelligence community “concurs with the wide scientific consensus that the Covid-19 virus was not manmade or genetically modified”.

[AT8]

Extract from Guardian. WHO reports numerous scientists assured virus is natural. Think I know who I believe.


The executive director of the World Health Organization reiterated that the group believes coronavirus came about naturally, despite Trump’s dubious claims that he has seen evidence it was created in a Chinese government lab.

“We have listened again and again to numerous scientists who looked at the sequences and looked at this virus and we are assured that this virus is natural in origin,” WHO executive director Michael J. Ryan said Friday.

Just yesterday, Trump claimed he had seen evidence that coronavirus was made in a lab in China’s Wuhan region, which saw the first outbreak of the virus. Asked what evidence he had seen, Trump said, “I can’t tell you that. I’m not allowed to tell you that.”

The president’s comments came hours after the office of the director of national intelligence said in a statement that the intelligence community “concurs with the wide scientific consensus that the Covid-19 virus was not manmade or genetically modified”.

That is completely untrue. He said he believed it originated from the lab, meaning the point I raised a few posts up comes into play.

[Hibrandenburg]

There is a precedent for it happening.

There was a death from Smallpox in 1978 in Birmingham, the lady involved worked in a building which had a lab studying the disease and it was traced to there. 300 people were quarantined and that saved us from a wider outbreak.

In 2014 the FDA quite literally found a box of vials containing live smallpox virus that was unaccounted for. They were transported in an unapproved way and one was broken. Thankfully it was a control specimen.

The CDC inadvertently sent H5N1 samples to a lab and that was only discovered when the lab in question got unexpected results from an experiment. Add to that 75 employees from the same organisation were suspected of being exposed to anthrax the same year.

In recent years in China there has been scandals involving both contaminated baby milk and faulty vaccines. Both were the subject of attempted cover ups.

I don't believe it's what has happened here but it's undoubtedly something that can and does happen.

Smallpox has been with us for at least 4000 years and has been cultivated, cured and used as a biological weapon, there will be strains of it kept in laboratories around the world and is estimated to have killed over 300 million people in the 20th century alone. Covid19 is a new virus that mutated in a way that makes humans sick, those are scientific facts widely agreed upon by the scientific community. The chances that Wuhan Covid19 mutated, transferred to humans, was recognized, then contained and eradicated but somehow kept in a test tube in China without the world knowing and then spread from a laboratory accidentally is not just far fetched, it's mental and the chances that Donald Trump meant exactly that in his utterances are next to zero. If this virus mutated from animals and wasn't produced in a lab then it has spread from patient zero and not from a lab.

[Pretty Boy]

Smallpox has been with us for at least 4000 years and has been cultivated, cured and used as a biological weapon, there will be strains of it kept in laboratories around the world and is estimated to have killed over 300 million people in the 20th century alone. Covid19 is a new virus that mutated in a way that makes humans sick, those are scientific facts widely agreed upon by the scientific community. The chances that Wuhan Covid19 mutated, transferred to humans, was recognized, then contained and eradicated but somehow kept in a test tube in China without the world knowing and then spread from a laboratory accidentally is not just far fetched, it's mental and the chances that Donald Trump meant exactly that in his utterances are next to zero. If this virus mutated from animals and wasn't produced in a lab then it has spread from patient zero and not from a lab.

I'm not disagreeing with you. I did try to make it clear in my last sentence I thought it was very unlikely that it was the case.

As I said earlier in the thread part of Trumps problem (I was going to say biggest problem but that would be bollocks) is that he just goes off on a tangent when he gets an idea in his head, the idea being totally ridiculous doesn't matter.

Much like with the disinfectant stuff (I've read analysis he may have been referring to ozone therapy, a controversial topic) I think this is something that has been put in his head and it's easier to run with that for him than to try and get his tiny brain around the actual scale and process of what has happened.

I'll clarify that shouldn't be read as any kind of defence of Trump, I assumed it was clear enough last time I said similar but it seems painting someone as a total idiot can be defined as a defence.

[Hibrandenburg]

I'm not disagreeing with you. I did try to make it clear in my last sentence I thought it was very unlikely that it was the case.

As I said earlier in the thread part of Trumps problem (I was going to say biggest problem but that would be bollocks) is that he just goes off on a tangent when he gets an idea in his head, the idea being totally ridiculous doesn't matter.

Much like with the disinfectant stuff (I've read analysis he may have been referring to ozone therapy, a controversial topic) I think this is something that has been put in his head and it's easier to run with that for him than to try and get his tiny brain around the actual scale and process of what has happened.

I'll clarify that shouldn't be read as any kind of defence of Trump, I assumed it was clear enough last time I said similar but it seems painting someone as a total idiot can be defined as a defence.

I certainly never thought you were in anyway defending him, apologies if I've somehow given you that impression. However those who are are comically pitiful. Trump says something outlandish and then there's a whole army of apologists chewing over the semantics of what he spews out looking for a hidden sensible meaning in the words spoken by the messiah. The same phenomena is now happening with Boris Johnson and this Tory government, their utterly farcical management of the Covid19 crisis is inexcusable, yet there are people queueing up to do so in the most ridiculous manner.

[matty_f]

I certainly never thought you were in anyway defending him, apologies if I've somehow given you that impression. However those who are are comically pitiful. Trump says something outlandish and then there's a whole army of apologists chewing over the semantics of what he spews out looking for a hidden sensible meaning in the words spoken by the messiah. The same phenomena is now happening with Boris Johnson and this Tory government, their utterly farcical management of the Covid19 crisis is inexcusable, yet there are people queueing up to do so in the most ridiculous manner.

100% agree. It's a really worrying trend, and the manipulation of a willing media is really, really dangerous and depressing.

We are at a stage where people who openly act in a way that, in days gone by, would have destroyed careers or put them in jail, and instead of that their acts and words are swept under the carpet.

[G B Young]

It means the Chinese may have been studying the virus in the lab and safety protocols weren't followed which allowed the virus to escape.

Yes that was my reading of it. The lab in question was, IIRC, focused on research into bat coronaviruses and as you say, the NI statement suggests they want to eliminate the possiblity of accidental transmission.

Personally I find it hard to imagine we'll ever have a definitive answer on where or, perhaps more importantly, when the virus orginated bearing in mind how long Beiging appears to have delayed announcing its emergence. If it really did start its spread as early as last September, the world was pretty much screwed long before anyone was able to try to prevent global infection.

As an aside, I hadn't realised human coronaviruses have been around since the 1960s:

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/types.html

[HappyAsHellas]

I believe the South Koreans were so well prepared this time round due to an outbreak there in 2015 when one returning businessman infected 600 people of whom around 35 died. They initially thought it was MERS but after studying it identified it as Mers-covid. From their study they worked out that you needed massive stocks of PPE and tests. This they set about to achieve and is why they never went into lockdown and have had few deaths compared to other countries. This would seem to say to me that this virus has been mutating for years and it was only a matter of time till this happened. It also points out how utterly incompetent some governments are at prioritising things.
Meanwhile, as the South Koreans were looking after their citizens, Boris was giving a speech about a superman style of government who could make a profit during all this.

[Colr]

I believe the South Koreans were so well prepared this time round due to an outbreak there in 2015 when one returning businessman infected 600 people of whom around 35 died. They initially thought it was MERS but after studying it identified it as Mers-covid. From their study they worked out that you needed massive stocks of PPE and tests. This they set about to achieve and is why they never went into lockdown and have had few deaths compared to other countries. This would seem to say to me that this virus has been mutating for years and it was only a matter of time till this happened. It also points out how utterly incompetent some governments are at prioritising things.
Meanwhile, as the South Koreans were looking after their citizens, Boris was giving a speech about a superman style of government who could make a profit during all this.

FT’s take on the governments handling of PPE today is interesting. They suggest the advise on PPE wasn’t based on science but on what they actually had access to. To be blunt they were lying about what was safe for PR reasons.

[wpj]

He's losing it day by day, just watched his latest broadcast or outburst. He seems to be more tanned and more bleached hair and talking more crap than ever. Can he get even more crazy before being removed?

[theonlywayisup]

With US deaths are nearing 80,000 and the country’s unemployment rate has risen to 14.7%, President Trump has tweeted nearly 40 times this morning, giving his administration “great marks” for his handling of the pandemic.

The man is an idiot. It's all about him!!

[HibernianJK]

I try and avoid listening to him, reading his tweets, watching interviews or anything that gives him a platform. He just makes me so angry every time he opens his mouth.

[wpj]

I try and avoid listening to him, reading his tweets, watching interviews or anything that gives him a platform. He just makes me so angry every time he opens his mouth.

I have been talking to an American friend who is living in Trumpland in Missouri, He's an absolute Democrat and a Bernie Sanders campaigner. He reckons Trump will be massively reelected. How depressing is that

[Hibs Class]

With US deaths are nearing 80,000 and the country’s unemployment rate has risen to 14.7%, President Trump has tweeted nearly 40 times this morning, giving his administration “great marks” for his handling of the pandemic.

The man is an idiot. It's all about him!!

Way over 40 by the end of the day including yet more outlandish theories and promoting the reopening of his golf course in LA.

[HibernianJK]

I have been talking to an American friend who is living in Trumpland in Missouri, He's an absolute Democrat and a Bernie Sanders campaigner. He reckons Trump will be massively reelected. How depressing is that

Sanders fans are reluctant to say anything positive about Biden and even more recently with the rumours spreading. I don’t think there’s anyway it’s a convincing victory. It’s going to be close.

FWIW, I was a Bernie fan, but since he’s out the running I would be backing Biden without a moments hesitation. The need the Democratic Party to unite behind Biden.

[BroxburnHibee]

Makes another racist comment towards an Asian American journalist then storms off when she pushes him over the outburst at the latest press conference.

He's unhinged yet his supporters will love him for it.

[wpj]

Makes another racist comment towards an Asian American journalist then storms off when she pushes him over the outburst at the latest press conference.

He's unhinged yet his supporters will love him for it.

I watched that, what an absolute bully, he just doesn't have a decent bone in his body

[Pretty Boy]

That is embarrassing behaviour. I wouldn't expect that from a surly teenager. I said yesterday that I had never seen anyone less suited to high office than Johnson but that's not true. Trump is better than him at being terrible.

What Trump and Johnson and their cult like followers need to understand is that the media is allowed to ask tough questions and in the position they are in they are expected to answer them.

[wpj]

That is embarrassing behaviour. I wouldn't expect that from a surly teenager. I said yesterday that I had never seen anyone less suited to high office than Johnson but that's not true. Trump is better than him at being terrible.

What Trump and Johnson and their cult like followers need to understand is that the media is allowed to ask tough questions and in the position they are in they are expected to answer them.

They are obnoxious people PB, how did we end up with such people in charge? Chuck Putin in the mix we have a "perfect storm"

[weecounty hibby]

That is embarrassing behaviour. I wouldn't expect that from a surly teenager. I said yesterday that I had never seen anyone less suited to high office than Johnson but that's not true. Trump is better than him at being terrible.

What Trump and Johnson and their cult like followers need to understand is that the media is allowed to ask tough questions and in the position they are in they are expected to answer them.

The problem has been that all the way through their campaigns for office the media was not asking tough questions. Both got a very easy ride from the mostly right wing MSM. They are both woefully out if their depths when it comes to leading and especially at this moment when strong leadership is needed.

[lapsedhibee]

They are obnoxious people PB, how did we end up with such people in charge? Chuck Putin in the mix we have a "perfect storm"
Absolutely tragic that the three most important entities in the English-speaking world (UK and HMFC being the other two) are simultaneously under their worst-ever leadership. Dullards all.

[Sir David Gray]

I've just seen that interview, what an embarrassment.

Really sad that he has made it to the most powerful position in the world.

[grunt]

They are obnoxious people PB, how did we end up with such people in charge?I think this is a really tough question, going to the heart of what has happened in the UK and the US in recent years. But one key factor which I'd suggest in the UK was the lack of an effective opposition. But you'd have to add lots of other things too.

[Callum_62]

GOP is split who to listen to.

[emoji15]

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1260335570628366337?s=19

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[Pretty Boy]

GOP is split who to listen to.

[emoji15]

https://twitter.com/CNN/status/1260335570628366337?s=19

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

Hmmm an immunologist with several published peer reviewed papers who has worked under several Presidents. Or Donald ****ing Trump. Tough choice.

[Killiehibbie]

Hmmm an immunologist with several published peer reviewed papers who has worked under several Presidents. Or Donald ****ing Trump. Tough choice.

But we know who many Americans will listen to.

[weecounty hibby]

Since I watched him storm out of the update yesterday I have had Jethro Tull as an earworm, as the kids seem to call it. Thick as a brick! Honestly can't get it out of my head

[Ronniekirk]

Hmmm an immunologist with several published peer reviewed papers who has worked under several Presidents. Or Donald ****ing Trump. Tough choice.

Detest Trump but there are a few alternative reports on Facui linking him to Bill Gates and Vaccines which make interesting reading
There is lots of money to be made in America in this area and lots of patents were taken out
The Aids Epidemic showed that some treatments that could of saved lives earlier were blocked in favour of me that was actually killing people
Dallas Buyer Club is a film based on a true story
Sadly there is money to be made out of Pandemic s
However would not Trust Trump that’s for sure




Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mon Dieu4]

Take it Trump knew who this lady was when he answered ask China? as until she took off her mask and glasses I couldn't have told you she was Asian American

[Pretty Boy]

Take it Trump knew who this lady was when he answered ask China? as until she took off her mask and glasses I couldn't have told you she was Asian American

I'm not sure if US briefings work the same way as the UK ones with the name and organisation of the reporter being called before the question.

If they do then I assume would think Weijia Jiang might have been a bit of a giveaway.

[Mon Dieu4]

I'm not sure if US briefings work the same way as the UK ones with the name and organisation of the reporter being called before the question.

If they do then I assume would think Weijia Jiang might have been a bit of a giveaway.

Didn't see any of the build up to it all, just saw her ask the question and his answer, didn't even know the ladies name to be honest, what a total mentalist he is :rolleyes:

[Jamesie]

Take it Trump knew who this lady was when he answered ask China? as until she took off her mask and glasses I couldn't have told you she was Asian American

I asked the same question myself. While not seeking to defend Trump, I’m not totally convinced the answer is racist: if he had delivered the same answer to a non-Asian American journalist, would it be considered a racist response?

[danhibees1875]

I'm not sure if I've just missed it from a few days ago, but he also had a ridiculous interaction with a nurse.

He and a group of nurses behind him were asked about PPE and obviously he wanted to give it the whole "millions of PPE, the best PPE in the world, I got it all and it's all great".

One of the nurses said that her experience and that of her colleagues suggested that PPE provision was sporadic with not everywhere being adequately covered.

Trump immediately got defensive and came out with a brilliant quote of: "Well it's maybe sporadic for you, but it's not sporadic for a lot of others".

[Pretty Boy]

I asked the same question myself. While not seeking to defend Trump, I’m not totally convinced the answer is racist: if he had delivered the same answer to a non-Asian American journalist, would it be considered a racist response?

I think that's the point though. Would he have said the same to a non-Asian American reporter? Worth point out his response to the incident on Twitter was as below:

“Asian Americans are VERY angry at what China has done to our Country, and the World. Chinese Americans are the most angry of all. I don’t blame them!”

[Captain Trips]

I think that's the point though. Would he have said the same to a non-Asian American reporter? Worth point out his response to the incident on Twitter was as below:

“Asian Americans are VERY angry at what China has done to our Country, and the World. Chinese Americans are the most angry of all. I don’t blame them!”

Well it cant be proved what he would have said if was not an Asian American IMO it is not racist, it is though bizarre and I wonder what the "unusual answer" is.

[Smartie]

If he had a blemish free record it would be nice to be able to give the President of the United States of America the benefit of the doubt for what is obviously a misunderstanding.

Sadly...

[Barney McGrew]

Take it Trump knew who this lady was when he answered ask China? as until she took off her mask and glasses I couldn't have told you she was Asian American

IIRC, he had a run in with the same journalist not that long ago. He knew exactly who she was.

[hibeedc]

Hello

My first post. I have been viewing these boards for many years and I am a season ticket holder at Easter Road. It has taken what's going on in the world now to get me to join up as people seriously need to know what is going on. From the start of this I have had a feeling there is more to what is going on than the virus so a few weeks ago I starting looking around for answers.

I have come across a lot of information, some very interesting and disturbing. It's going to take a while to dig out the key information and I am still working fulltime so please bear with me. I have a day of tomorrow so will try and get some info posted then. For starters as the previous poster says Dr Fauci and Bill Gates are closely linked and that's not a good thing. I know and understand why you are all rubbishing Donald Trump but you may have a different opinion soon.

Please be nice. You are going to think I am a nutcase. I am not, far from it. Please bear with me for a while even if you think this and when you see the truth spread the news as that's the reason I am doing this, as many people as possible need to know what is going on. There are already many people around the world who know but we need to have many more.

Start by searching for 'out of the shadows documentary' on youtube. It's currently about a third of the way down the first page and runs for just under 78 mins. After watching you might think whats this got to do with the virus, there is a connection.

Cheers

[hibsbollah]

Well it cant be proved what he would have said if was not an Asian American IMO it is not racist, it is though bizarre and I wonder what the "unusual answer" is.

You can’t ever ‘prove’ racist intent definitively.
You can watch a persons pattern of behaviour and come to the obvious conclusion though.
He’s obviously racist, his track record is clear.

[H18 SFR]

Hello

My first post. I have been viewing these boards for many years and I am a season ticket holder at Easter Road. It has taken what's going on in the world now to get me to join up as people seriously need to know what is going on. From the start of this I have had a feeling there is more to what is going on than the virus so a few weeks ago I starting looking around for answers.

I have come across a lot of information, some very interesting and disturbing. It's going to take a while to dig out the key information and I am still working fulltime so please bear with me. I have a day of tomorrow so will try and get some info posted then. For starters as the previous poster says Dr Fauci and Bill Gates are closely linked and that's not a good thing. I know and understand why you are all rubbishing Donald Trump but you may have a different opinion soon.

Please be nice. You are going to think I am a nutcase. I am not, far from it. Please bear with me for a while even if you think this and when you see the truth spread the news as that's the reason I am doing this, as many people as possible need to know what is going on. There are already many people around the world who know but we need to have many more.

Start by searching for 'out of the shadows documentary' on youtube. It's currently about a third of the way down the first page and runs for just under 78 mins. After watching you might think whats this got to do with the virus, there is a connection.

Cheers


Can you provide a summary please?

[hibeedc]

His answer was nothing to do with the colour of the reporters skin. It was to do with the company she works for.

[Smartie]

Hello

My first post. I have been viewing these boards for many years and I am a season ticket holder at Easter Road. It has taken what's going on in the world now to get me to join up as people seriously need to know what is going on. From the start of this I have had a feeling there is more to what is going on than the virus so a few weeks ago I starting looking around for answers.

I have come across a lot of information, some very interesting and disturbing. It's going to take a while to dig out the key information and I am still working fulltime so please bear with me. I have a day of tomorrow so will try and get some info posted then. For starters as the previous poster says Dr Fauci and Bill Gates are closely linked and that's not a good thing. I know and understand why you are all rubbishing Donald Trump but you may have a different opinion soon.

Please be nice. You are going to think I am a nutcase. I am not, far from it. Please bear with me for a while even if you think this and when you see the truth spread the news as that's the reason I am doing this, as many people as possible need to know what is going on. There are already many people around the world who know but we need to have many more.

Start by searching for 'out of the shadows documentary' on youtube. It's currently about a third of the way down the first page and runs for just under 78 mins. After watching you might think whats this got to do with the virus, there is a connection.

Cheers

Hi

Welcome to the board.

I'm interested to see how this develops.

You might want to start a new thread on it though - it possibly deserves one rather than being stuck in with Donald Trump's daily acts of lunacy.

I have heard quite a lot of what you are probably about to go on to say. I'd like to say I have an open mind on it and I think I do, but you'll have a job on your hands convincing many that it isn't just a wacky conspiracy theory.

There is an election later this year and at this point in time nothing matters more to Donald Trump than to get reelected. He will not let anyone or anything stand in his way and would see millions of people die with no regret whatsoever in order to make that happen, as we'll likely see over the coming weeks.

So I'm calling it now - Trump-esque lowest common denominator stuff designed to smear all the people he doesn't like and make him look like the good guy. It will go down well with the few right-wing nut jobs who hang out here. It will be given short shrift from the rest. Highly polished and appearing almost credible at times, it will dissolve under scrutiny leaving you howling "fake news" etc.

Still, bring it on...

[CapitalGreen]

Hello

My first post. I have been viewing these boards for many years and I am a season ticket holder at Easter Road. It has taken what's going on in the world now to get me to join up as people seriously need to know what is going on. From the start of this I have had a feeling there is more to what is going on than the virus so a few weeks ago I starting looking around for answers.

I have come across a lot of information, some very interesting and disturbing. It's going to take a while to dig out the key information and I am still working fulltime so please bear with me. I have a day of tomorrow so will try and get some info posted then. For starters as the previous poster says Dr Fauci and Bill Gates are closely linked and that's not a good thing. I know and understand why you are all rubbishing Donald Trump but you may have a different opinion soon.

Please be nice. You are going to think I am a nutcase. I am not, far from it. Please bear with me for a while even if you think this and when you see the truth spread the news as that's the reason I am doing this, as many people as possible need to know what is going on. There are already many people around the world who know but we need to have many more.

Start by searching for 'out of the shadows documentary' on youtube. It's currently about a third of the way down the first page and runs for just under 78 mins. After watching you might think whats this got to do with the virus, there is a connection.

Cheers

lol

[BroxburnHibee]

His answer was nothing to do with the colour of the reporters skin. It was to do with the company she works for.

Rubbish.

[hibeedc]

Hi

Welcome to the board.

I'm interested to see how this develops.

You might want to start a new thread on it though - it possibly deserves one rather than being stuck in with Donald Trump's daily acts of lunacy.

I have heard quite a lot of what you are probably about to go on to say. I'd like to say I have an open mind on it and I think I do, but you'll have a job on your hands convincing many that it isn't just a wacky conspiracy theory.

There is an election later this year and at this point in time nothing matters more to Donald Trump than to get reelected. He will not let anyone or anything stand in his way and would see millions of people die with no regret whatsoever in order to make that happen, as we'll likely see over the coming weeks.

So I'm calling it now - Trump-esque lowest common denominator stuff designed to smear all the people he doesn't like and make him look like the good guy. It will go down well with the few right-wing nut jobs who hang out here. It will be given short shrift from the rest. Highly polished and appearing almost credible at times, it will dissolve under scrutiny leaving you howling "fake news" etc.

Still, bring it on...

Thanks for the welcome. Nothing to do with what you say.

I have been viewing threads on here for many years because I am a Hibs fan, never joined any forum before. Don't want to sound naff, but I don't really want to join now and do this because I know I am going to be slated by some. Some will see what I, and many others see, and spread the news, that's all I am looking for.

[hibeedc]

Rubbish.
Fair enough I will rephrase. If a white skinned reporter from that company had asked the same question they would have got the same reply. I am not really here to defend Trump and I'm not going to argue with folk.

I'll say what I have to say and leave.

[Sir David Gray]

I asked the same question myself. While not seeking to defend Trump, I’m not totally convinced the answer is racist: if he had delivered the same answer to a non-Asian American journalist, would it be considered a racist response?

I think it probably was aimed at the lady's ethnicity but I personally felt his whole attitude during that exchange by eventually walking out of the press conference when it clearly hadn't finished was the worst bit, just because he was getting asked a few awkward questions.

He's so thin skinned it's unbelievable and cannot take any criticism.

[CapitalGreen]

Thanks for the welcome. Nothing to do with what you say.

I have been viewing threads on here for many years because I am a Hibs fan, never joined any forum before. Don't want to sound naff, but I don't really want to join now and do this because I know I am going to be slated by some. Some will see what I, and many others see, and spread the news, that's all I am looking for.

Instead of pre-empting how people are going to respond, why don’t you present your thoughts and opinions on the matter and let people make their mind up.

[Hibrandenburg]

Hello

My first post. I have been viewing these boards for many years and I am a season ticket holder at Easter Road. It has taken what's going on in the world now to get me to join up as people seriously need to know what is going on. From the start of this I have had a feeling there is more to what is going on than the virus so a few weeks ago I starting looking around for answers.

I have come across a lot of information, some very interesting and disturbing. It's going to take a while to dig out the key information and I am still working fulltime so please bear with me. I have a day of tomorrow so will try and get some info posted then. For starters as the previous poster says Dr Fauci and Bill Gates are closely linked and that's not a good thing. I know and understand why you are all rubbishing Donald Trump but you may have a different opinion soon.

Please be nice. You are going to think I am a nutcase. I am not, far from it. Please bear with me for a while even if you think this and when you see the truth spread the news as that's the reason I am doing this, as many people as possible need to know what is going on. There are already many people around the world who know but we need to have many more.

Start by searching for 'out of the shadows documentary' on youtube. It's currently about a third of the way down the first page and runs for just under 78 mins. After watching you might think whats this got to do with the virus, there is a connection.

Cheers

Welcome. Let me get my popcorn.

[H18 SFR]

Fair enough I will rephrase. If a white skinned reporter from that company had asked the same question they would have got the same reply. I am not really here to defend Trump and I'm not going to argue with folk.

I'll say what I have to say and leave.

Any chance you can summarise the documentary before you leave?

[Ronniekirk]

Hello

My first post. I have been viewing these boards for many years and I am a season ticket holder at Easter Road. It has taken what's going on in the world now to get me to join up as people seriously need to know what is going on. From the start of this I have had a feeling there is more to what is going on than the virus so a few weeks ago I starting looking around for answers.

I have come across a lot of information, some very interesting and disturbing. It's going to take a while to dig out the key information and I am still working fulltime so please bear with me. I have a day of tomorrow so will try and get some info posted then. For starters as the previous poster says Dr Fauci and Bill Gates are closely linked and that's not a good thing. I know and understand why you are all rubbishing Donald Trump but you may have a different opinion soon.

Please be nice. You are going to think I am a nutcase. I am not, far from it. Please bear with me for a while even if you think this and when you see the truth spread the news as that's the reason I am doing this, as many people as possible need to know what is going on. There are already many people around the world who know but we need to have many more.

Start by searching for 'out of the shadows documentary' on youtube. It's currently about a third of the way down the first page and runs for just under 78 mins. After watching you might think whats this got to do with the virus, there is a connection.

Cheers

Thanks will give it a watch Have only recently come across this stuff and find it interesting


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[grunt]

HelloCan you just let me know if the virus is caused / spread by 5G? It'll save time later.

[bigwheel]

I’m not a believer in the conspiracy theories around Dr Fauci...and the facts seem to back this up

There has been a rumour and implication that Fauci and Gates relationship is a conflict of interest. This has been investigated by independent institutions and viewed as an inaccurate representation. He does sit on The leadership council for a Gates sponsored vaccines collaboration initiative. Gates doesn’t sit on this council . it is part of the Gates charity foundation though , which is making charitable donations to organisations such as WHO and other parties - it is not a profit nor revenue generating entity...

Fauci has worked for the last 30 plus years as a public servant and advisor to presidents . Viewed as a strong consistent performer throughout his career

The biggest “charge” (rumour) is that Gates has created a COVID vaccine and is due to benefit from this pandemic ..again independent research has concluded this is not true (suggestions for example he worked on this with the pilbright institute have subsequently been found to be false accusations ...

Trump and his administration are constantly looking to deflect blame through false accusations..this smells of another when they are under the microscope ...I’m waging that this is where the real issue is...

[RyeSloan]

Fair enough I will rephrase. If a white skinned reporter from that company had asked the same question they would have got the same reply. I am not really here to defend Trump and I'm not going to argue with folk.

I'll say what I have to say and leave.

What are you saying?

[Tobias Funke]

Another conspiracy theorist donut joins the thread. Some absolute belters out there. 🙄

[Dalianwanda]

Fair enough I will rephrase. If a white skinned reporter from that company had asked the same question they would have got the same reply. I am not really here to defend Trump and I'm not going to argue with folk.

I'll say what I have to say and leave.

Just out of curiosity how do you know they would have got the same reply?

[Hibbyradge]

I am not really here to defend Trump

So why are you defending him? No-one is asking you to.

What are you here for?

[stokesmessiah]

Another conspiracy theorist donut joins the thread. Some absolute belters out there. 🙄

Yup.

The amount of nonsense I have seen over the last couple of months is crazy and the amount of people who are citing their ‘sources’ as a YouTube clip, give me strength.

[Hibrandenburg]

Here's a conspiracy theory for you. Why is it that everyone who opposes, contradicts or threatens Donald Trump's image are subjects of conspiracy theories? :hmmm:

[wpj]

To be honest the internet (here included) has become bizarre during lockdown. I am no better or worse neither am I judging anyone but conspiracy theories are all over the shop. The only thing I am sure of is Trump and Boris are absolute idiots and not fit to run a bath let alone a country

[stokesmessiah]

To be honest the internet (here included) has become bizarre during lockdown. I am no better or worse neither am I judging anyone but conspiracy theories are all over the shop. The only thing I am sure of is Trump and Boris are absolute idiots and not fit to run a bath let alone a country

Amen

[Smartie]

To be honest the internet (here included) has become bizarre during lockdown. I am no better or worse neither am I judging anyone but conspiracy theories are all over the shop. The only thing I am sure of is Trump and Boris are absolute idiots and not fit to run a bath let alone a country

I'm concerned by how convincing conspiracy theories can now be as well.

It isn't difficult to put together a polished video, have a serious and credible interviewer asking questions of "a scientist" and put something together that on the face of it looks like it is the real deal.

You don't want to appear closed minded and I've probably given more nonsense the time of day than I would have in the past, but it can be challenging.

[Callum_62]

. https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200514/e821e0cde4a3c28511816a66ea559949.jpg

Sent from my VOG-L29 using Tapatalk

[BroxburnHibee]

I see hes turned on Fauci now.

Purely for telling the truth instead of the Trump narrative.

[Future17]

His answer to the journalist's question only really comes close to making sense if it was either racist or questioning her integrity/impartiality.

Unfortunately, so much of what comes out of his mouth makes no sense that it's difficult to apply rational reasoning to his utterances.

[Future17]

I see hes turned on Fauci now.

Purely for telling the truth instead of the Trump narrative.

The wording he used was the giveaway here - he said that Fauci's position wasn't "acceptable". He gave no detail as to why, suggestingit's s only unacceptable because it's contrary to Trump's own interests.

It makes you wonder how many other viewpoints he's dismissed on this basis.

[lord bunberry]

I’m not a believer in the conspiracy theories around Dr Fauci...and the facts seem to back this up

There has been a rumour and implication that Fauci and Gates relationship is a conflict of interest. This has been investigated by independent institutions and viewed as an inaccurate representation. He does sit on The leadership council for a Gates sponsored vaccines collaboration initiative. Gates doesn’t sit on this council . it is part of the Gates charity foundation though , which is making charitable donations to organisations such as WHO and other parties - it is not a profit nor revenue generating entity...

Fauci has worked for the last 30 plus years as a public servant and advisor to presidents . Viewed as a strong consistent performer throughout his career

The biggest “charge” (rumour) is that Gates has created a COVID vaccine and is due to benefit from this pandemic ..again independent research has concluded this is not true (suggestions for example he worked on this with the pilbright institute have subsequently been found to be false accusations ...

Trump and his administration are constantly looking to deflect blame through false accusations..this smells of another when they are under the microscope ...I’m waging that this is where the real issue is...
David Ike thinks that the Gates vaccine will contain nanoprobes that will be able to track and control our minds. He’s a guy that knows his stuff. :greengrin

[Bostonhibby]

David Ike thinks that the Gates vaccine will contain nanoprobes that will be able to track and control our minds. He’s a guy that knows his stuff. :greengrinAye but he needs 5G pylons to make it all work, and even then you can deflect their signal by wearing a colander with a TV aerial sticking out the top as a helmet.

Donald Trump's already interested in developing more of these safety devices than any other country.

Sent from my SM-A750FN using Tapatalk

[CapitalGreen]

Seems like hibeedc may have been silenced by the deep state just before he was about to reveal the truth to us about Bill Gates’ New World Order plan for world domination via mass vaccinations and brainwashing by 5G signals. Hopefully he can escape their clutches and teach us all to see what he sees, preferably through the medium of youtube videos which solicit “donations” for their truth seeking creators.

[JeMeSouviens]

Scary stuff:

https://www.ft.com/content/97dc7de6-940b-11ea-abcd-371e24b679ed

[hibsbollah]

Scary stuff:

https://www.ft.com/content/97dc7de6-940b-11ea-abcd-371e24b679ed

Ft paywall. Can you cut n paste?

[JeMeSouviens]

Ft paywall. Can you cut n paste?

Oh, it let me read following a link from twitter. Anyway, here you go





When the history is written of how America handled the global era’s first real pandemic, March*6 will leap out of the timeline. That was the day Donald Trump visited the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta. His foray to the world’s best disease research body was meant to showcase that America had everything under control. It came midway between the time he was still denying the coronavirus posed a threat and the moment he said he had always known it could ravage America.

Shortly before the CDC visit, Trump said “within a couple of days, [infections are] going to be down to close to zero”. The US then had 15 cases. “One day, it’s like a miracle, it will disappear.” A few days afterwards, he claimed: “I’ve felt it was a pandemic long before it was called a pandemic.” That afternoon at the CDC provides an X-ray into Trump’s mind at the halfway point between denial and acceptance.

We now know that Covid-19 had already passed the breakout point in the US. The contagion had been spreading for weeks in New*York, Washington state and other clusters. The curve was pointing sharply upwards. Trump’s goal in Atlanta was to assert the opposite.

Wearing his “Keep America Great” baseball cap, the US president was flanked by Robert Redfield, head of the CDC, Alex Azar, the US secretary of health and human services, and Brian Kemp, governor of Georgia. In his 47-minute interaction with the press, Trump rattled through his greatest hits.

He dismissed CNN as fake news, boasted about his high Fox News viewership, cited the US stock market’s recent highs, called Washington state’s Democratic governor a “snake” and admitted he hadn’t known that large numbers of people could die from ordinary flu. He also misunderstood a question on whether he should cancel campaign rallies for public health reasons. “I haven’t had any problems filling [the stadiums],” Trump said.

What caught the media’s attention were two comments he made about the disease. There would be four million testing kits available within a week. “The tests are beautiful,” he said. “Anybody that needs a test gets a test.”


Donald Trump at the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention in Atlanta on March 6 with, from left, Alex Azar, secretary of health and human services, Robert Redfield, CDC director, and Steve Monroe, associate director for laboratory science and safety at the CDC © Jim Watson/AFP/Getty Images
Ten weeks later, that is still not close to being true. Fewer than 3 per cent of Americans had been tested by mid-May. Trump also boasted about his grasp of science. He cited a “super genius” uncle, John Trump, who taught at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology and implied he inherited his intellect. “I really get it,” he said. “Every one of these doctors said, ‘How do you know so much about this?’ Maybe I have a natural ability.” Historians might linger on that observation too.

What the headlines missed was a boast that posterity will take more seriously than Trump’s self-estimated IQ, or the exaggerated test numbers (the true number of CDC kits by March was 75,000). Trump proclaimed that America was leading the world. South Korea had its first infection on January 20, the same day as America’s first case, and was, he said, calling America for help. “They have a lot of people that are infected; we don’t.” “All I say is, ‘Be calm,’” said the president. “Everyone is relying on us. The world is relying on us.”

America is first in the world in deaths, first in the world in infections and we stand out as an emblem of global incompetence

William Burns, former US diplomat
He could just as well have said baseball is popular or foreigners love New York. American leadership in any disaster, whether a tsunami or an Ebola outbreak, has been a truism for decades. The US is renowned for helping others in an emergency.

In hindsight, Trump’s claim to global leadership leaps out. History will mark Covid-19 as the first time that ceased to be true. US airlifts have been missing in action. America cannot even supply itself.

South Korea, which has a population density nearly 15 times greater and is next door to China, has lost a total of 259 lives to the disease. There have been days when America has lost 10 times that number. The US death toll is now approaching 90,000.

What has gone wrong? I interviewed dozens of people, including outsiders who Trump consults regularly, former senior advisers, World Health Organization officials, leading scientists and diplomats, and figures inside the White House. Some spoke off the record.

Again and again, the story that emerged is of a president who ignored increasingly urgent intelligence warnings from January, dismisses anyone who claims to know more than him and trusts no one outside a tiny coterie, led by his daughter Ivanka and her husband, Jared Kushner – the property developer who Trump has empowered to sideline the best-funded disaster response bureaucracy in the world.

People often observed during Trump’s first three years that he had yet to be tested in a true crisis. Covid-19 is way bigger than that. “Trump’s handling of the pandemic at home and abroad has exposed more painfully than anything since he took office the meaning of America First,” says William Burns, who was the most senior US diplomat, and is now head of the Carnegie Endowment.

“America is first in the world in deaths, first in the world in infections and we stand out as an emblem of global incompetence. The damage to America’s influence and reputation will be very hard to undo.”


Coffins of people who have died from Covid-19 lined up in a funeral home in Queens, New York. Recent estimates suggest 135,000 people will die by late July © Tayfun Coskun/Anadolu Agency/Getty Images
The psychology behind Trump’s inaction on Covid-19 was on display that afternoon at the CDC. The unemployment number had come out that morning. The US had added 273,000 jobs in February, bringing the jobless rate down to a near record low of 3.5 per cent. Trump’s re-election chances were looking 50:50 or better. The previous Saturday, Joe Biden had won the South Carolina primary. But the Democratic contest still seemed to have miles to go. Nothing could be allowed to frighten the Dow Jones.

Any signal that the US was bracing for a pandemic – including taking actual steps to prepare for it – was discouraged.

“Jared [Kushner] had been arguing that testing too many people, or ordering too many ventilators, would spook the markets and so we just shouldn’t do it,” says a Trump confidant who speaks to the president frequently. “That advice worked far more powerfully on him than what the scientists were saying. He thinks they always exaggerate.”

[JeMeSouviens]

... continued




'This is a great success story,’ said Jared Kushner, Trump's son-in-law and adviser, of the US coronavirus response in late April. Kushner’s advice to avoid alarming the markets is said to have had more influence on the president than the warnings from scientists © Jabin Botsford/The Washington Post/Getty Images
Stephen Moore of the Heritage Foundation, a conservative think-tank, who talks regularly to Trump and is a campaign adviser, says the mood was borderline ecstatic in early March. “The economy was just steaming along, the stock market was firing on all cylinders and that jobs report was fantastic,” says Moore. “It was almost too perfect. Nobody expected this virus. It hit us like a meteor or a terrorist attack.”

The CDC has led the response to every disease for decades. Now it has vanished from view

Laurie Garrett, former senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations
People in Trump’s orbit are fond of comparing coronavirus to the 9/11 attacks. George W Bush missed red flags in the build-up to al-Qaeda’s Twin Towers attacks. But he was only once explicitly warned of a possible plot a few weeks before it happened. “All right, you’ve covered your ass,” Bush reportedly told the briefer.

At some point, Congress is likely to establish a body like the 9/11 Commission to investigate Trump’s handling of the Covid-19 pandemic. The inquiry would find that Trump was warned countless times of the epidemic threat in his presidential daily briefings, by federal scientists, the health secretary Alex Azar, Peter Navarro, his trade adviser, Matt Pottinger, his Asia adviser, by business friends and the world at large. Any report would probably conclude that tens of thousands of deaths could have been prevented – even now as Trump pushes to “liberate” states from lockdown.

“It is as though we knew for a fact that 9/11 was going to happen for months, did nothing to prepare for it and then shrugged a few days later and said, ‘Oh well, there’s not much we can do about it,’” says Gregg Gonsalves, a public health scholar at Yale University. “Trump could have prevented mass deaths and he didn’t.”


Demonstrators gather in Olympia, Washington to protest against the state’s stay-at-home orders. Trump adviser Stephen Moore says he told the president ‘this lockdown is causing more deaths and misery than the disease itself’
In fairness, other democracies, notably the UK, Italy and Spain, also wasted time failing to prepare for the approaching onslaught. Whoever was America’s president might have been equally ill-served by Washington infighting.

The CDC has been plagued by mishap and error throughout the crisis. The agency spent weeks trying to develop a jinxed test when it could simply have imported WHO-approved kits from Germany, which has been making them since late January. “The CDC has been missing in action,” says a former senior adviser in the Trump White House. “Because of the CDC’s errors, we did not have a true picture of the spread of the disease.”

Here again, though, Trump’s stamp is clear. It was Trump who chose Robert Redfield to head the CDC in spite of widespread warnings about the former military officer’s controversial record. Redfield led the Pentagon’s response to HIV-Aids in the 1980s. It involved isolating suspected soldiers in so-called HIV Hotels. Many who tested positive were dishonourably discharged. Some committed suicide.

A devout catholic, Redfield saw Aids as the product of an immoral society. For many years, he championed a much-hyped remedy that was discredited in tests. That debacle led to his removal from the job in 1994.


Trump and Robert Redfield at a daily briefing of the coronavirus task force at the White House. Trump chose Redfield to head the CDC despite of widespread warnings about the former military officer’s controversial record on HIV-Aids © Drew Angerer/Getty Images
“Redfield is about the worst person you could think of to be heading the CDC at this time,” says Laurie Garrett, a Pulitzer Prize-winning science journalist who has reported on epidemics. “He lets his prejudices interfere with the science, which you cannot afford during a pandemic.”

One of the CDC’s constraints was to insist on developing its own test rather than import a foreign one. Dr Anthony Fauci – the infectious disease expert and now household name – is widely known to loathe Redfield, and vice versa. That meant the CDC and Fauci’s National Institutes of Health were not on the same page. “The last thing you need is scientists fighting with each other in the middle of an epidemic,” says Dr Kenneth Bernard, who set up a previous White House pandemic unit in 2004, which was scrapped under Barack Obama.

Advising Trump was like ‘bringing fruits to the volcano . . . You’re trying to appease a great force that’s impervious to*reason’

An administration official
The scarcity of kits meant that the scientists lacked a picture of America’s rapidly spreading infections. The CDC was forced to ration tests to “persons under investigation” – people who had come within 6ft of someone who had either visited China or been infected with Covid-19 in the previous 14 days. Most were denied. Few could prove that they had met either criterion. This was at a time when several countries, notably Germany, Taiwan and South Korea, gave access to on-the-spot tests, including at drive-through centres – an option most Americans still lack.

[JeMeSouviens]

wait!, there's more ...





Anthony Fauci, director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases, and Deborah Birx, White House coronavirus response co-ordinator, have been two of Trump’s key advisers and the main public faces of the crisis © Mandel Ngan/AFP/Getty Images
“You’ve been commuting by train or subway into New York every day, you show up sick in the clinic and they refuse to test you because you can’t prove you’ve been within 6ft of someone with Covid-19,” says the former adviser. “You’ve probably been close to half a million people in the previous two weeks.”

Restrictions on testing narrow the options. “Once you get to one per cent prevalence in any community, it is too late for non-pharmaceutical interventions to work,” says Tom Bossert, who created the since-disbanded White House pandemic office before he was ejected in 2018 by John Bolton, Trump’s then national security adviser.

By March 11, just five days after Trump’s CDC visit, the reality was beginning to seep through. In an Oval Office broadcast, Trump banned travel from most of Europe, which expanded the partial ban he put on China in February. Two days later, he declared a national emergency. Even then, however, he insisted America was leading the world. “We’ve done a great job because we acted quickly,” he said. “We acted early.

Over the next 48 hours, however, something snapped in Trump’s mind. Citing a call with one of his sons, Trump said on March 16: “It’s bad. It’s bad… They think August [before the disease peaks]. Could be July. Could be longer than that.”

Eleven days later, Boris Johnson, Britain’s prime minister contracted Covid-19. The disease nearly killed him. That was Johnson’s road-to-Damascus. Many hoped Trump had had a similar conversion. If*so, it did not last long. The next week, he was saying that America should reopen by Easter on April 12. “I was one of the ones advising him to make it ‘Resurrection Sunday,’” says Moore. “I told him then what I think now, that this lockdown is causing more deaths and misery than the disease itself.”

Trump’s mindset became increasingly surreal. He began to tout hydroxychloroquine as a cure for Covid-19. On March 19, at a regular televised briefing, which he conducted daily for five weeks, often rambling for more than two hours, he depicted the antimalarial drug as a potential magic bullet. It could be “one of the biggest game-changers in the history of medicine”, he later tweeted.


Healthcare workers gather outside Brooklyn Hospital Center in New York. The state has been the epicentre of the disease in the US © Brendan McDermid/Reuters
The president’s leap of faith, which was inspired by Fox News anchors, notably Laura Ingraham, and his lawyer Rudy Giuliani, none of whom have a medical background, turned Washington’s bureaucracy upside down. Scientists who demurred were punished. In April, Rick Bright, the federal scientist in charge of developing a vaccine – arguably the most urgent role in government – was removed after blocking efforts to promote hydroxychloroquine.

Most clinical trials have shown the drug has no positive impact on Covid-19 patients and can harm people with heart problems. “I was pressured to let politics and cronyism drive decisions over the opinions of the best scientists we have in government,” Bright said in a statement.

In a whistleblower complaint, he said he was pressured to send millions of dollars worth of contracts to a company controlled by a friend of Jared Kushner. When he refused, he was fired. The US Department of Health and Human Services denied Bright’s allegations.

I was one of the ones advising him to make it ‘Resurrection Sunday’. I told him then what I think now, that this lockdown is causing more deaths and misery than the disease itself

Stephen Moore, campaign adviser
Other scientists have taken note of Bright’s fate. During the Ebola outbreak in 2014, when Obama’s administration sent 3,000 US military personnel to Africa to fight the epidemic, the CDC held a daily briefing about the state of progress. It has not held one since early March. Scientists across Washington are terrified of saying anything that contradicts Trump.

“The way to keep your job is to out-loyal everyone else, which means you have to tolerate quackery,” says Anthony Scaramucci, an estranged former Trump adviser, who was briefly his White House head of communications. “You have to flatter him in public and flatter him in private. Above all, you must never make him feel ignorant.”

An administration official says advising Trump is like “bringing fruits to the volcano” – Trump being the lava source. “You’re trying to appease a great force that’s impervious to reason,” says the official.

When Trump suggested in late April that people could stop Covid-19, or even cure themselves, by injecting disinfectant, such as Lysol or Dettol, his chief scientist, Deborah Birx, did not dare contradict him. The leading bleach companies issued statements urging customers not to inject or ingest disinfectant because it could be fatal. The CDC only issued a cryptic tweet advising Americans to: “Follow the instructions on the product label.”

A woman protests against shelter-in-place orders at a Michigan Conservative Coalition rally in Lansing
“I can’t even get my calls returned,” says Garrett. “The CDC has led the response to every disease for decades. Now it has vanished from view.” A former senior Trump official says: “People turn into wusses around Trump. If you stand up to him, you’ll never get back in. What you see in public is what you get in private. He is exactly the same.”

America’s foreign partners have had an equally sharp reminder of Trump’s way of doing business. Few western leaders are as ideologically aligned with Trump as Scott Morrison, Australia’s prime minister. Early into the epidemic, Morrison created a national cabinet that meets at least once a week. It includes every state premier of the two main parties. Morrison’s unity cabinet projects an air of bipartisan resolve in a country that has lost just under 100 people to coronavirus in three months. Some days, America has lost more people to it every hour.

Trump, by contrast, plays US state governors against each other, much as he does with his staff. Republican states have received considerably more ventilators and personal protective equipment per capita than Democratic states, in spite of having far lower rates of hospitalisation. Trump says America is fighting a war against Covid-19. In practice, he is stoking national disunity. “It’s like saying to the governors that each state has to produce its own tanks and bullets,” says Bernard. “You’re on your own. It’s not my responsibility.”

Trump’s dog-eat-dog instinct has been just as strong abroad as at home. A meeting of G7 foreign ministers in March failed to agree on a statement after Mike Pompeo, the US secretary of state, insisted they brand it the “Wuhan virus”. America declined to participate in a recent summit hosted by Emmanuel Macron, France’s president, to collaborate on a vaccine.

You don’t turn off the hose in the middle of the fire, even if you dislike the fireman. This virus threatens every country in the world and will exploit any crack in our resolve

Dr Bernhard Schwartländer, chief of staff at the WHO
Most dramatically, Trump has suspended US funding of the WHO, which he says covered up for China’s lying. The WHO confirms that Trump met the then director-general designate, Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus, in the Oval Office in June 2017, shortly before he took up the role. Trump supported his candidacy.

Other critics say the Geneva-based body was too ready to take Beijing’s word at face value. There is some truth to that claim. “They were too scared of offending China,” says Bernard, who was America’s WHO director for two years. But its bureaucratic timidity did not stop other countries from taking early precautions.

[JeMeSouviens]

last bit ...




WHO director-general Tedros Adhanom Ghebreyesus in March. Trump has suspended US funding of the organisation © Fabrice Coffrini/AFP/Getty Images
Trump alleged the WHO’s negligence had increased the world’s death rate “twenty-fold”. In practice, the body must always abide by member state limits, especially the big ones, notably the US and China. That is the reality for all multilateral bodies. The WHO nevertheless declared an international emergency six weeks before Trump’s US announcement. WHO officials say Trump’s move has badly hindered its operations.

“You don’t turn off the hose in the middle of the fire, even if you dislike the fireman,” says Bernhard Schwartländer, chief of staff at the WHO. “This virus threatens every country in the world and will exploit any crack in our resolve.” The body, in other words, has fallen victim to US-China hostility.

Blaming America’s death rate on China and the WHO could well help Trump’s re-election campaign. Many voters are all too ready to believe the US is a victim of nefarious global forces. Garrett, who is a former senior fellow for global health at the Council on Foreign Relations, cites Inferno, a lesser-known novel by Dan Brown, author of the best-selling Da Vinci Code, in which the WHO plays a dastardly role.

One of its leading characters is a biologist at the CFR. During a pandemic, she kidnaps the head of the WHO and puts him in the think-tank’s basement. He is rescued by a WHO military team that swoops in on the body’s C-130 jet. In reality, the agency has no police powers at all. “We are not like Interpol,” says Schwartländer. The WHO can no more insist on going into Wuhan to investigate the origins of Covid-19 than it can barge into Atlanta to investigate the CDC’s delay in producing a test.


'Trump’s campaign will be about China, China, China,' says Steve Bannon, his former chief strategist. A demonstrator in California echoes the administration’s anti-China rhetoric © Stanton Sharpe/SOPA Images/LightRocket/Getty Images
Both the US and China have spread outlandish rumours about the other. Some Chinese officials have circulated the groundless conspiracy theory that the US army planted the virus in Wuhan at an athletics event last year. Trump administration officials, including Pompeo, have repeatedly suggested Covid-19 originated from a bat-to-human transmission in Wuhan’s virology lab.

Last month, Australia called for an international inquiry into the disease’s origins. “Australia’s goal was to defuse conspiracy theories in both China and America,” says Michael Fullilove, head of the Lowy Institute, Australia’s largest think-tank.

Days later, Australia’s Daily Telegraph, a tabloid owned by Rupert Murdoch, ran an apparent scoop that the “five eyes” – the intelligence agencies of the US, the UK, Australia, Canada and New Zealand – had concluded the disease came from the Wuhan lab, whether by accident or design. It appears the story had no substance. Fauci and other scientists say the pathogen almost certainly came from a wet market in Wuhan. No “five eyes” dossier existed.

According to a five eye senior intelligence officer and a figure close to Australia’s government, the Daily Telegraph story probably came from the US embassy in Canberra. There was no chance after its publication that Beijing would agree to an international probe. The report damaged Australia’s hopes of defusing US-China tensions. “We used to think of America as the world’s leading power, not as the epicentre of disease,” says Fullilove, who is an ardent pro-American. “We increasingly feel caught between a reckless China and a feckless America that no longer seems to care about its allies.”

So where does the American chapter of the plague go from here? Early into his partial about-turn, Trump said scientists told him that up to 2.5 million Americans could die of the disease. The most recent estimates suggest 135,000 Americans will die by late July. That means two things.

First, Trump will tell voters that he has saved millions of lives. Second, he will continue to push aggressively for US states to lift their lockdowns. His overriding goal is to revive the economy before the general election. Both Trump and Kushner have all but declared mission accomplished on the pandemic. “This is a great success story,” said Kushner in late April. “We have prevailed,” said Trump on Monday.


'We have prevailed,' said Trump at a White House news briefing about the coronavirus earlier this week
Economists say a V-shaped recovery is unlikely. Even then it could be two Vs stuck together – a W, in other words. The*social mingling resulting from any short-term economic reopening would probably come at the price of a second contagious outburst. As long as the second V began only after November, Trump might just be re-elected.

“From Trump’s point of view, there is no choice,” says Charlie Black, a senior Republican consultant and lobbyist. “It is the economy or nothing. He can’t exactly run on his personality.” Steve Bannon, Trump’s former chief strategist, had a slightly different emphasis: “Trump’s campaign will be about China, China, China,” he says. “And hopefully the fact that he rebooted the economy.”

In the meantime, Trump will probably continue to dangle the prospect of miracle cures. Every week since the start of the outbreak, he has said a vaccine is just around the corner. His latest estimate is that it will be ready by July. Scientists say it will take a year at best to produce an inoculation. Most say 18 months would be lucky. Even that would break all records. The previous fastest development was four years for mumps in the 1960s.

We used to think of America as the world’s leading power, not as the epicentre of disease. We increasingly feel caught between a reckless China and a feckless America

Michael Fullilove, head of the Lowy institute
For the time being, Trump has been persuaded to cease his daily briefings. The White House internal polling shows that his once double-digit lead over Biden among Americans over 65 has been wiped out. It turns out retirees are no fans of herd immunity.

Friends of the president are trying to figure out how to return life to normal without provoking a new death toll. After an initial rally in March, Trump’s poll numbers have been steadily dropping over the last month. For the next six months, America’s microbial fate will be in the hands of its president’s erratic re-election strategy. There is more than a whiff of rising desperation.

“Trump is caught in a box which keeps getting smaller,” says George Conway, a Republican lawyer who is married to Kellyanne Conway, Trump’s senior counsellor. “In my view he is a sociopath and a malignant narcissist. When a person suffering from these disorders feels the world closing in on them, their tendencies get worse. They lash out and fantasise and lose any ability to think rationally.” Conway is known for taunting Trump on Twitter (to great effect, it should be added: Trump often retaliates).

Yet without exception, everyone I interviewed, including the most ardent Trump loyalists, made a similar point to Conway. Trump is deaf to advice, said one. He is his own worst enemy, said another. He only listens to family, said a third. He is mentally imbalanced, said a fourth. America, in other words, should brace itself for a*turbulent six months ahead – with no assurance of a safe landing.

Edward Luce is the FT’s US national editor

[hibsbollah]

Thanks :faf: that’s quite a tome. I’ll read it shortly.

[HappyAsHellas]

It's actually staggering that this can go on in America in this day and age. Nice to see Murdoch is still morally reprehensible.

[Pretty Boy]

That article is just wow.

I'm not particularly familiar with the inner workings of domestic politics in the US, however one phrase I always remember hearing was 'checks and balances'. Something in the system must be seriously broken to allow one man and 2 unelected advisors to create such havoc. America needs protecting from itself.

[hibsbollah]

last bit ...

Fantastic, thank you. I’ve read some of that before but the stuff from CDC in Atlanta I haven’t seen. It’s a barely credible dystopian storyline, I can’t believe we’re living through these times.

[Tobias Funke]

Scary stuff:

https://www.ft.com/content/97dc7de6-940b-11ea-abcd-371e24b679ed

The FT must be the latest bastion of FAKE NEWS, file alongside CNN, WAPO and the NYT. Nothing to see here...

In all seriousness the stuff written in that article boggles the mind. Trump was always going to be a dangerous inhabitant of the White House, America is finding out just how frightening an ignorant, malignant, petty minded narcissist can be as president. He’s an abomination of a human being.

Never mind though, he’s draining the swamp, as certain imbeciles like to state. Some folk should stop taking drugs and stay off the internet, conspiracy theorist weirdos that they are.

[wpj]

So many people deserting him, Dr Bright has resigned. Anyone who challenges him resigns or is sacked or is tweeted against He's completely out of control

[Ronniekirk]

So many people deserting him, Dr Bright has resigned. Anyone who challenges him resigns or is sacked or is tweeted against He's completely out of control

Yet it’s being predicted he will be re-elected as long as he kick starts the economy and restores people’s freedoms
Bringing in the military to administer a rushed through flawed vaccine will surely be his undoing though


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[wpj]

Yet it’s being predicted he will be re-elected as long as he kick starts the economy and restores people’s freedoms
Bringing in the military to administer a rushed through flawed vaccine will surely be his undoing though


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Been talking to my American friends who predict he is absolutely getting 4 more years. The prospect is unbelievably scary.

[JeMeSouviens]

Yet it’s being predicted he will be re-elected as long as he kick starts the economy and restores people’s freedoms
Bringing in the military to administer a rushed through flawed vaccine will surely be his undoing though


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Being predicted by doom-mongers. The polls show Biden will win all the Clinton states and won't have the problems she did in the rust belt: he's well ahead in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/weve-got-some-early-trump-vs-biden-swing-state-polling/

I don't think JB is much of a candidate but Trump needs a big turnaround.

[JeMeSouviens]

Fantastic, thank you. I’ve read some of that before but the stuff from CDC in Atlanta I haven’t seen. It’s a barely credible dystopian storyline, I can’t believe we’re living through these times.

No probs.

:agree: about the surreal nature of all this. Sometimes I wake up and have to process my way through it all being real all over again.

[Dan Sarf]

Just to clear up what The President of the United States actually said...

https://twitter.com/Kiltworm/status/1260076975185526784

[JimBHibees]

The Trump article is absolutely incredible but not really. Scary thing is he will probably get reelected. What a moron.

[SideBurns]

Being predicted by doom-mongers. The polls show Biden will win all the Clinton states and won't have the problems she did in the rust belt: he's well ahead in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania and Michigan.

https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/weve-got-some-early-trump-vs-biden-swing-state-polling/

I don't think JB is much of a candidate but Trump needs a big turnaround.

One thing I took from the article posted earlier is that it sounds like even Trump supporters and other Republicans are alarmed with his behaviour at the moment. I wonder if many would be content to swallow a Biden presidency to return the US to some stability, then find a credible Republican candidate who could take him on in 4 years.

[Hibs Class]

Is there any prospect of Cuomo getting the Democrat nomination? Not sure whether or not he'd want it, but I think I read that a candidate can be elected from the floor even if they haven't been in the primaries - don't know if that is realistic or just hypothetical.

[JeMeSouviens]

Is there any prospect of Cuomo getting the Democrat nomination? Not sure whether or not he'd want it, but I think I read that a candidate can be elected from the floor even if they haven't been in the primaries - don't know if that is realistic or just hypothetical.

It's possible but extremely unlikely. They've settled around Biden and there isn't major dissent. Barring a health scare he'll be the nominee.

[hibsbollah]

No probs.

:agree: about the surreal nature of all this. Sometimes I wake up and have to process my way through it all being real all over again.

I had an interesting conversation with my 16 year old yesterday about processing what’s going on the world. She thinks a lot about future reflections; in practice, imagining talking to friends ten years in the future about the madness of Trump and Coronavirus and reflecting on the incredulousness of it all. I’m the opposite; I imagine a ‘go back in time’ scenario, where I have prior knowledge in 2019 of the madness that’s unfolding. I suppose it’s a reflection of how different folk have different mental mechanisms :agree:

[Captain Trips]

As much as we can lambast Trump etc IMO the person needed to explain themselves fully and openly and has again IMO caused this country far far more issues than Trump is Xi Jinping.

"German newspaper Der Spiegel reported that Chinese leader Xi Jinping pressured Tedros Adhanom, director of the World Health Organization in January 2020 to hold off on issuing a global warning about the coronavirus outbreak. The report published over the weekend said Xi urged the WHO chief to “delay a global warning” about the pandemic and hold back information on human-to-human transmission of the virus, but WHO denied German allegations"

What could this regime have tries to suppress within own state we will not know?

True or not there is IMO lots and lots of smoke and mirrors of all this and for me we are in a far worse situation than we should be first and formost because of the actions or non actions early doors.

[Callum_62]

As much as we can lambast Trump etc IMO the person needed to explain themselves fully and openly and has again IMO caused this country far far more issues than Trump is Xi Jinping.

"German newspaper Der Spiegel reported that Chinese leader Xi Jinping pressured Tedros Adhanom, director of the World Health Organization in January 2020 to hold off on issuing a global warning about the coronavirus outbreak. The report published over the weekend said Xi urged the WHO chief to “delay a global warning” about the pandemic and hold back information on human-to-human transmission of the virus, but WHO denied German allegations"

What could this regime have tries to suppress within own state we will not know?

True or not there is IMO lots and lots of smoke and mirrors of all this and for me we are in a far worse situation than we should be first and formost because of the actions or non actions early doors.Wasnt it declared a global emergency in January?

Countres dont have an excuse for being woefully unprepared or worse, not taking it seriously

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[hibsbollah]

As much as we can lambast Trump etc IMO the person needed to explain themselves fully and openly and has again IMO caused this country far far more issues than Trump is Xi Jinping.

"German newspaper Der Spiegel reported that Chinese leader Xi Jinping pressured Tedros Adhanom, director of the World Health Organization in January 2020 to hold off on issuing a global warning about the coronavirus outbreak. The report published over the weekend said Xi urged the WHO chief to “delay a global warning” about the pandemic and hold back information on human-to-human transmission of the virus, but WHO denied German allegations"

What could this regime have tries to suppress within own state we will not know?

True or not there is IMO lots and lots of smoke and mirrors of all this and for me we are in a far worse situation than we should be first and formost because of the actions or non actions early doors.

That’s probably true, although Xi didn’t suggest his population start injecting themselves with bleach.

[McSwanky]

As much as we can lambast Trump etc IMO the person needed to explain themselves fully and openly and has again IMO caused this country far far more issues than Trump is Xi Jinping.

"German newspaper Der Spiegel reported that Chinese leader Xi Jinping pressured Tedros Adhanom, director of the World Health Organization in January 2020 to hold off on issuing a global warning about the coronavirus outbreak. The report published over the weekend said Xi urged the WHO chief to “delay a global warning” about the pandemic and hold back information on human-to-human transmission of the virus, but WHO denied German allegations"

What could this regime have tries to suppress within own state we will not know?

True or not there is IMO lots and lots of smoke and mirrors of all this and for me we are in a far worse situation than we should be first and formost because of the actions or non actions early doors.

Whataboutery at its finest there! Remind me what this thread was about again? :greengrin

[hibsbollah]

whataboutery at its finest there! Remind me what this thread was about again? :greengrin

ask china

[Future17]

One thing I took from the article posted earlier is that it sounds like even Trump supporters and other Republicans are alarmed with his behaviour at the moment. I wonder if many would be content to swallow a Biden presidency to return the US to some stability, then find a credible Republican candidate who could take him on in 4 years.

It's interesting. I think when Trump ceases to be President, the subsequent years will bring out revelations which are even worse than his publicised deranged behaviour. When that happens, a lot of Republicans will suffer by association. It might be a while before they are able to effectively rebuild.

[Captain Trips]

Whataboutery at its finest there! Remind me what this thread was about again? :greengrin

Its not whataboutary is Trumps actions with Virus not whataboutary as are everyone elses as Virus came first. When did saying what about become this whataboutary pish anyway?

[BroxburnHibee]

It's interesting. I think when Trump ceases to be President, the subsequent years will bring out revelations which are even worse than his publicised deranged behaviour. When that happens, a lot of Republicans will suffer by association. It might be a while before they are able to effectively rebuild.

That's what worries me. Its probably way worse behind the scenes.

[Captain Trips]

That’s probably true, although Xi didn’t suggest his population start injecting themselves with bleach.

No he didnt though but perhaps if they had done their job correctly in first plce then no bleach talk every gets said etc etc etc.

[The Tubs]

No he didnt though but perhaps if they had done their job correctly in first plce then no bleach talk every gets said etc etc etc.

The easy answer to all this type of question is that Germany had enough time to prepare, so why didn’t other developed nations like the U.K. or USA? Even poorer ones like Portugal did.

And the obvious answer to my question is poor leadership in the nations that have failed so far.

[CapitalGreen]

"German newspaper Der Spiegel reported that Chinese leader Xi Jinping pressured Tedros Adhanom, director of the World Health Organization in January 2020 to hold off on issuing a global warning about the coronavirus outbreak. The report published over the weekend said Xi urged the WHO chief to “delay a global warning” about the pandemic and hold back information on human-to-human transmission of the virus, but WHO denied German allegations"



Der Spiegel claims this conversation occurred on January 21st but China had already confirmed the existence of human to human transmission themselves prior to this date.

[Captain Trips]

The easy answer to all this type of question is that Germany had enough time to prepare, so why didn’t other developed nations like the U.K. or USA? Even poorer ones like Portugal did.

And the obvious answer to this one is poor leadership in the nations that have failed so far.

Is anyone claiming that UK USA have done a good job? Im not I am saying Chinas handling of the incident in the first place has caused us far more trouble than Trump ever will here. So counties that were prepared for a terror attack well done but if our security fail then blame them firstly and not the actual source?

[Captain Trips]

We can all agree or not I find the obsession with how bad Trump is totally bizarre when in many many countries just because we have no real links with them there are some horrendous things been going on.

So indeed probably not the ideal thread for me to post on.

[wpj]

We can all agree or not I find the obsession with how bad Trump is totally bizarre when in many many countries just because we have no real links with them there are some horrendous things been going on.

So indeed probably not the ideal thread for me to post on.

Then don't, Trump is an absolute racist pr!ck, a liability with no grasp of any sensible ideas or facts

[Captain Trips]

Then don't, Trump is an absolute racist pr!ck, a liability with no grasp of any sensible ideas or facts

Why you pointing out to me what the last 200 pages show as if that is some sort of revelation your opinion? I do not disagree with most folks thoughts but I can still find it strange. I wont so cheers. Im not stuck in thee house because Trumps a prick.

[CropleyWasGod]

We can all agree or not I find the obsession with how bad Trump is totally bizarre when in many many countries just because we have no real links with them there are some horrendous things been going on.

So indeed probably not the ideal thread for me to post on.

It's less an obsession than a recognition that what happens in the US usually has an effect (politically, culturally, financially) on the rest of the World, particularly in Europe.

"When America sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold"

[wpj]

Why you pointing out to me what the last 200 pages show as if that is some sort of revelation your opinion? I do not disagree with most folks thoughts but I can still find it strange. I wont so cheers. Im not stuck in thee house because Trumps a prick.

Oh chill out, you always come across as angry about stuff. Again, if I have offended you I apologise but the chill out comment stands

[Captain Trips]

It's less an obsession than a recognition that what happens in the US usually has an effect (politically, culturally, financially) on the rest of the World, particularly in Europe.

"When America sneezes, the rest of the world catches a cold"

Well I don't know how much all your lives have changed here in UK since he took over mine hasn't and I have been to USA twice on holiday since he took over. Has that stopped others visiting?

[CropleyWasGod]

Well I don't know how much all your lives have changed here in UK since he took over mine hasn't and I have been to USA twice on holiday since he took over. Has that stopped others visiting?

My post didn't mention Trump. It spoke about the reality of the effect of the US on the World.

He's the leader of that country. Ergo it's of interest.

[Captain Trips]

Oh chill out, you always come across as angry about stuff. Again, if I have offended you I apologise but the chill out comment stands

"Then don't, Trump is an absolute racist pr!ck, a liability with no grasp of any sensible ideas or facts"

That comes across as? I'm perfectly chilled thanks.

[Smartie]

We can all agree or not I find the obsession with how bad Trump is totally bizarre when in many many countries just because we have no real links with them there are some horrendous things been going on.

So indeed probably not the ideal thread for me to post on.

I think it would be only reasonable and valid for a thread about Donald Trump to have someone on here defending the guy. We shouldn't necessarily downplay the fact that he managed to get enough people in a nation of 328 million to vote him in as president, so somebody somewhere must like what he is doing.

As far as I can see your defence of him is "aye, but what about China" which is about the best he can normally come up with himself. It's not really much of a defence for the reckless, distasteful and downright dangerous words he often chooses to use to go about his business but clearly quite a lot of people are content with it.

[Captain Trips]

My post didn't mention Trump. It spoke about the reality of the effect of the US on the World.

He's the leader of that country. Ergo it's of interest.

Indeed but I still ask what has occurred to us due to his leadership then as individuals?

[Captain Trips]

I think it would be only reasonable and valid for a thread about Donald Trump to have someone on here defending the guy. We shouldn't necessarily downplay the fact that he managed to get enough people in a nation of 328 million to vote him in as president, so somebody somewhere must like what he is doing.

As far as I can see your defence of him is "aye, but what about China" which is about the best he can normally come up with himself. It's not really much of a defence for the reckless, distasteful and downright dangerous words he often chooses to use to go about his business but clearly quite a lot of people are content with it.

Who is defending him? I said there are others out there as well. When did I say he is doing OK or I support him? Once again you say something not necessarily anti Trump and your in support of him. Utter nonsense and totally irrational.

[Callum_62]

Is anyone claiming that UK USA have done a good job? Im not I am saying Chinas handling of the incident in the first place has caused us far more trouble than Trump ever will here. So counties that were prepared for a terror attack well done but if our security fail then blame them firstly and not the actual source?

If they knew well in advance of the impending terror attack and know exactly the form it would take - yes, I'd say our security forces failed.



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[Captain Trips]

If they knew well in advance of the impending terror attack and know exactly the form it would take - yes, I'd say our security forces failed.



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They did what about the terrorists though forget about them? As we didn't do good enough?

[CropleyWasGod]

Indeed but I still ask what has occurred to us due to his leadership then as individuals?

4 suggestions:-

The worsening of the relationship with China and Russia has, IMO, made the world less safe. That affects us all.

The facilitation of right-wing views has validated the rise of similar behaviour in this country. For people in marginalised communities, that is very worrying.

His encouragement of Brexit has helped to contribute to what is an uncertain economic future.

His refusal to accept the widely-held view of climate change is very worrying for those of us who care about the future of our families.

[Captain Trips]

There are plenty of countries at conflict as well that could do same.

Point 2 source.

We voted Brexit all others are irrelevant.

I accept point 4.

Anyone on here still visit the states out of interest? Or is this defending him.

[Callum_62]

They did what about the terrorists though forget about them? As we didn't do good enough?The terrorists in this case is a virus we can't even see



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[Captain Trips]

Some of these are very nasty questions

[CropleyWasGod]

There are plenty of countries at conflict as well that could do same.

Point 2 source.

We voted Brexit all others are irrelevant.

I accept point 4.

Anyone on here still visit the states out of interest? Or is this defending him.

1. none with the economic and military clout of the US.

2. simple example would be the proposed protests taking place in the UK this weekend, organised by the Britain First people. They are, IMO, following the example of similar protests in the US. Trump's rhetoric enables and emboldens these people.

[Captain Trips]

1. none with the economic and military clout of the US.

2. simple example would be the proposed protests taking place in the UK this weekend, organised by the Britain First people. They are, IMO, following the example of similar protests in the US. Trump's rhetoric enables and emboldens these people.

Lame tbh, anyway very nasty points.

[Captain Trips]

There is no point in asking me stuff I suggest you ask China and with that I storm off this thread.

[CropleyWasGod]

There is no point in asking me stuff I suggest you ask China and with that I storm off this thread.

:greengrin

[Smartie]

There is no point in asking me stuff I suggest you ask China and with that I storm off this thread.

:faf:

I always had Donald Trump down as a hun but maybe he's one of us?