(Soon to be) Former President Donald Trump

[Jones28]

I wish the brackets in the title of this thread read ‘soon to be forgotten’ but I sense that’s wishful thinking.

I know what you’re getting at but Trump should never be forgotten. He should always be a reminder of how close we came to chaos and easy it is to get there. 4 years is all it took and it could happen again.

[Ronniekirk]

Some posts I have seen have his supporters saying he will be back in March this year as president
What planet are they on ffs


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[Haymaker]

Some posts I have seen have his supporters saying he will be back in March this year as president
What planet are they on ffs


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There's some theory that since the 1820s or something ridiculous, America has become a corporation rather than a country. As the original date for the inauguration was in March then he'll be sworn back in then as the 19th president.

It's actually scary how many people I know who think he is/will be President. And these aren't mouth breathers, we're talking highly educated individuals.

[Ronniekirk]

There's some theory that since the 1820s or something ridiculous, America has become a corporation rather than a country. As the original date for the inauguration was in March then he'll be sworn back in then as the 19th president.

It's actually scary how many people I know who think he is/will be President. And these aren't mouth breathers, we're talking highly educated individuals.

Even more worrying then The ones ok ow are full blown conspiracy theorists Lightworkers that believe he was clearing the swamp and saving abused children held underground by the Elite , and that he couldn’t be bought by the Establishment , hence they rigged results to get him out
I guess we are nearly at March so time will tell But would be Astonished if this actually transpired
I wonder what they will then come up with




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[Hibbyradge]

Did I read that the founder of Qanon and the rumour that Biden was a paedophile has been charged with having indecent pictures of children?

[CropleyWasGod]

Did I read that the founder of Qanon and the rumour that Biden was a paedophile has been charged with having indecent pictures of children?

I did, I think it was yesterday or this morning. But I can't find it now.

The only story I can find is one from December about a candidate for office, who was charged with possession. https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13453279/airman-who-lost-gop-race-arrested/

[lapsedhibee]

Did I read that the founder of Qanon and the rumour that Biden was a paedophile has been charged with having indecent pictures of children?
The founder of Qanon is Q, isn't it? Don't think it was him/her. Think it was an adherent/spouter.

[Bristolhibby]

The one with conspiracies that gets me every time is the sheer number of people involved.

At EVERY level of life, and the fact that they ALL keep tight lipped, not one credible leak.

And the fact that DONALD TRUMP is their saviour. The very definition of established White, Male Privilege

Beggars belief.

J

[Kato]

The one with conspiracies that gets me every time is the sheer number of people involved.

At EVERY level of life, and the fact that they ALL keep tight lipped, not one credible leak.

And the fact that DONALD TRUMP is their saviour. The very definition of established White, Male Privilege

Beggars belief.

J

Radicalised, internet zoomers. I bet there is no one amongst them who has been suckered into swallowing this rubbish verbally, like in a pub or at a party. Every one of them have been "doing research" online. Imagine someone came to your door with the Qanon tale, they'd get short shrift as well as guffawed at. Bammy as.

[ACLeith]

Did I read that the founder of Qanon and the rumour that Biden was a paedophile has been charged with having indecent pictures of children?

Here .... https://www.dailydot.com/debug/qanon-ben-gibson-arrest/

Adam Kinzinger, a Republican who voted for impeachment has been ostracised by his family, telling him he was in cahoots with the Devil's Army and that he is a disappointment to God. Whilst accepting that Trump has faults they said he is at least a Christian.

So let me get my head round this. The only time Trump was seen with a Bible was when he brandished it as a weapon having tear gassed the crowd to clear a path for him; he has no clue about its contents and has never appeared to ever read it. His personal behaviour - speech and actions - is totally at odds with even the most cursory glance at Christian behaviour. Meanwhile, the leader of the Devil's Army is a regular churchgoer whose first action on Inauguration day was to attend Church.

Before anyone tries to pick me up for this, I am NOT suggesting that those who attend Church regularly are automatically better than those who don't, but in the case of Biden v Trump I rest my case!!

[Kato]

Here .... https://www.dailydot.com/debug/qanon-ben-gibson-arrest/

Adam Kinzinger, a Republican who voted for impeachment has been ostracised by his family, telling him he was in cahoots with the Devil's Army and that he is a disappointment to God. Whilst accepting that Trump has faults they said he is at least a Christian.

So let me get my head round this. The only time Trump was seen with a Bible was when he brandished it as a weapon having tear gassed the crowd to clear a path for him; he has no clue about its contents and has never appeared to ever read it. His personal behaviour - speech and actions - is totally at odds with even the most cursory glance at Christian behaviour. Meanwhile, the leader of the Devil's Army is a regular churchgoer whose first action on Inauguration day was to attend Church.

Before anyone tries to pick me up for this, I am NOT suggesting that those who attend Church regularly are automatically better than those who don't, but in the case of Biden v Trump I rest my case!!

If it were some mullah bandying that theoretical rhetoric around they'd have the polis all over them or should have. That is why I used the term "radicalised" in the post above, a section of the American population have been weaponised.

[RyeSloan]

If it were some mullah bandying that theoretical rhetoric around they'd have the polis all over them or should have. That is why I used the term "radicalised" in the post above, a section of the American population have been weaponised.

Does that mean in some cases weapons have been weaponised?

[Kato]

Does that mean in some cases weapons have been weaponised?

Exactly, and they're armed.

[Bristolhibby]

Here .... https://www.dailydot.com/debug/qanon-ben-gibson-arrest/

Adam Kinzinger, a Republican who voted for impeachment has been ostracised by his family, telling him he was in cahoots with the Devil's Army and that he is a disappointment to God. Whilst accepting that Trump has faults they said he is at least a Christian.

So let me get my head round this. The only time Trump was seen with a Bible was when he brandished it as a weapon having tear gassed the crowd to clear a path for him; he has no clue about its contents and has never appeared to ever read it. His personal behaviour - speech and actions - is totally at odds with even the most cursory glance at Christian behaviour. Meanwhile, the leader of the Devil's Army is a regular churchgoer whose first action on Inauguration day was to attend Church.

Before anyone tries to pick me up for this, I am NOT suggesting that those who attend Church regularly are automatically better than those who don't, but in the case of Biden v Trump I rest my case!!

He’s the type of guy who has never read the Bible, and you all know he has never read the Bible.

His life isn’t influenced by Christ or the teachings of the Bible.

His Bible is “The Art of the Deal”.

His God is money and power.

It sickened me to se him hold up that book like a weapon. WTF was he even saying? He just fancied a quick prayer with an old favourite Bible of his?

Just got to club some skulls first.

Still makes me laugh when pressed by an evangelical to give him his favourite Bible verse “that’s personal to me” was his response.

That’s one above “all of them”.

A bit like Alan Partridges favourite Beatles album being “The Best of”.

J

[Jones28]

Trump takes on the world is captivating

[RyeSloan]

I see the Supreme Court has ordered the release of Trumps tax returns to NY prosecutors.

Considering how hard and long Trump has battled to keep them secret I’m assuming this is particularly bad news for him.

Will take a grand jury a while to peruse them I’m sure but I’m also pretty confident that they will find plenty to pique their interest when they do!

[neil7908]

He’s the type of guy who has never read the Bible, and you all know he has never read the Bible.

His life isn’t influenced by Christ or the teachings of the Bible.

His Bible is “The Art of the Deal”.

His God is money and power.

It sickened me to se him hold up that book like a weapon. WTF was he even saying? He just fancied a quick prayer with an old favourite Bible of his?

Just got to club some skulls first.

Still makes me laugh when pressed by an evangelical to give him his favourite Bible verse “that’s personal to me” was his response.

That’s one above “all of them”.

A bit like Alan Partridges favourite Beatles album being “The Best of”.

J

This is the interview here:

https://youtu.be/ERUngQUCsyE

It's scary and astonishing that Christians think this man is the second coming.

[ACLeith]

This is the interview here:

https://youtu.be/ERUngQUCsyE

It's scary and astonishing that Christians think this man is the second coming.
Only a certain kind of “Christian” though. The kind who changes their faith to suit their political views. Every person I know who could be described as a Christian despises what he has stood for and is relieved he is no longer POTUS

[AltheHibby]

Only a certain kind of “Christian” though. The kind who changes their faith to suit their political views. Every person I know who could be described as a Christian despises what he has stood for and is relieved he is no longer POTUS

If you look at christianchat.com it's not the type who change their mind, it's the rabid right wing gun nut who think every other country is communist, COVID-19 is a fraud and Q-Anon and various con men televangelists are god's prophets.

Lunatics the lot of them.

[Lendo]

If you look at christianchat.com it's not the type who change their mind, it's the rabid right wing gun nut who think every other country is communist, COVID-19 is a fraud and Q-Anon and various con men televangelists are god's prophets.

Lunatics the lot of them.

Holy ****, I’ve just spent the last hour going down the rabbit hole that is ChristianChat.com. Unbelievable entertainment.

[Jim44]

The smell that won’t go away.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/donald-trump-tightens-his-grip-on-the-republican-party

[RyeSloan]

Surprised to see Trump not back in the White House today!

I’m sure QAnon told us that would happen as well....

[Hibbyradge]

Surprised to see Trump not back in the White House today!

I’m sure QAnon told us that would happen as well....

It's early yet...

[Future17]

He's had his victory today...he's found out Murdo Fraser is a fan. :greengrin

[Callyballybe]

This is the interview here:

https://youtu.be/ERUngQUCsyE

It's scary and astonishing that Christians think this man is the second coming.


"Do you prefer the old or new testament?"

"Eh....I like them both, equally."

Truly tremendous stuff. Like many people have said in the comments section, you'd fully expect that answer from one of the characters on 'The Office.'

[Hibbyradge]

I considered posting this in the Good News thread, but the fact that it's not been melted down took the edge off the story. :wink:

Trump Wax Figure Moved In Texas Because People Kept Punching It In The Face

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/trump-wax-figure-moved-in-texas_uk_605455e5c5b6d6c2a2a64b37

[lord bunberry]

I considered posting this in the Good News thread, but the fact that it's not been melted down took the edge off the story. :wink:

Trump Wax Figure Moved In Texas Because People Kept Punching It In The Face

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/trump-wax-figure-moved-in-texas_uk_605455e5c5b6d6c2a2a64b37
I just read about that. :faf:

[DaveF]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56546480

Looks like all his whinging has had post election impact.

[Hibs Class]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56546480

Looks like all his whinging has had post election impact.

I find it astonishing that states even have the authority to do things like this.

[lapsedhibee]

I find it astonishing that states even have the authority to do things like this.

Trump was pretty clear last year that unless some sort of voter suppression was implemented, there would never be another Republican president.

[hibsbollah]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-56546480

Looks like all his whinging has had post election impact.

None of this is new, the Republicans have been making it hard for black voters to vote for decades. The only sensible choice for the GOP after Obama was to put policies in place to attract more black and Hispanic voters.

‘Activism’ gets sniffed at by politicos as old fashioned but without literally millions of activists doing voter drives in poor neighbourhoods, helping people with voter registration and ‘right to vote’ awareness raising by the NFL, NBA, Trump would have won again.

[Ozyhibby]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210519/50a851c9e2f7e0794c6361c4c96189ba.jpg


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[Hibbyradge]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20210519/50a851c9e2f7e0794c6361c4c96189ba.jpg


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Boom!

[Keith_M]

As my wife might say....


I'm surprised to see this coming up again after all this time.

[Hibbyradge]

As my wife might say....


I'm surprised to see this coming up again after all this time.

Are you really?

I've been waiting for it expectedly.

[Jones28]

The irony of the man who’s crowds chanted “lock her up” facing criminal charges.

[Kato]

The irony of the man who’s crowds chanted “lock her up” facing criminal charges.

Manhattan DA's have been after him for decades.

[wookie70]

I was listening on the radio today and 70% of republicans still think that the election was rigged. It would be brilliant if he saw his remaining years out in jail. They should be looking at all his dealings with New York authorities. 40 year tax breaks for his hotel costing tax payers a 1/3 billion dollars. He has been at it from the word go.

[cabbageandribs1875]

a judge in Georgia has approved a recount in fulton county :rolleyes:

Georgia judge approves ballot audit as Trump supporters continue to push unfounded election claims (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/georgia-judge-approves-ballot-audit-as-trump-supporters-continue-to-push-unfounded-election-claims/ar-AAKh9Ne?ocid=msedgntp)

Around 147,000 votes will be recounted, a move initiated by a group of activists who will be paying for the audit (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/audit) to go ahead, and more information about it come imminently, Judge Amero said.

[Ronniekirk]

a judge in Georgia has approved a recount in fulton county :rolleyes:

Georgia judge approves ballot audit as Trump supporters continue to push unfounded election claims (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/georgia-judge-approves-ballot-audit-as-trump-supporters-continue-to-push-unfounded-election-claims/ar-AAKh9Ne?ocid=msedgntp)

Around 147,000 votes will be recounted, a move initiated by a group of activists who will be paying for the audit (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/audit) to go ahead, and more information about it come imminently, Judge Amero said.

What a ****ed up system they have The people that can’t accept they lost just can’t let go


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[cabbageandribs1875]

What a ****ed up system they have The people that can’t accept they lost just can’t let go


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if the same result comes back maybe they will finally accept their was no cheating anywhere




but then again maybe not

[cabbageandribs1875]

madness i say, madness

Matt Gaetz tells ‘America First’ rally crowd they have ‘obligation’ to take up arms against tech companies (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/matt-gaetz-tells-america-first-rally-crowd-they-have-obligation-to-take-up-arms-against-tech-companies/ar-AAKtWwN?ocid=msedgntp)


In remarks to an “America First (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/america-first)” rally in Georgia (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/georgia), Florida (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/florida), Republican congressman Matt Gaetz (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/matt-gaetz) told a cheering crowd “we have an obligation” to take up arms against Silicon Valley companies that he believes are “suppressing” right-wing voices on their platforms.


give it a few years and the Right-Wing Westminster Tories will probably introduce a 2nd amendment here :rolleyes:

EXCLUSIVE: Tory MP Eddie Hughes slammed for sharing picture of himself posing with gun | Left Foot Forward: Leading the UK's progressive debate (https://leftfootforward.org/2021/05/exclusive-tory-mp-eddie-hughes-slammed-for-sharing-picture-of-himself-posing-with-gun/?fbclid=IwAR3EiWzQYG7FX3tgJpL9R5AHbOVu8bBuTKJwRVhp J1_49gv6h7pPpOs2kz0)


“We believe that posing for a photograph clutching a large gun in a location where racks of more weapons are clearly available, is reckless, insensitive and inappropriate.”

[AltheHibby]

madness i say, madness

Matt Gaetz tells ‘America First’ rally crowd they have ‘obligation’ to take up arms against tech companies (msn.com) (https://www.msn.com/en-gb/news/world/matt-gaetz-tells-america-first-rally-crowd-they-have-obligation-to-take-up-arms-against-tech-companies/ar-AAKtWwN?ocid=msedgntp)


In remarks to an “America First (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/america-first)” rally in Georgia (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/georgia), Florida (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/florida), Republican congressman Matt Gaetz (https://www.independent.co.uk/topic/matt-gaetz) told a cheering crowd “we have an obligation” to take up arms against Silicon Valley companies that he believes are “suppressing” right-wing voices on their platforms.


give it a few years and the Right-Wing Westminster Tories will probably introduce a 2nd amendment here :rolleyes:

EXCLUSIVE: Tory MP Eddie Hughes slammed for sharing picture of himself posing with gun | Left Foot Forward: Leading the UK's progressive debate (https://leftfootforward.org/2021/05/exclusive-tory-mp-eddie-hughes-slammed-for-sharing-picture-of-himself-posing-with-gun/?fbclid=IwAR3EiWzQYG7FX3tgJpL9R5AHbOVu8bBuTKJwRVhp J1_49gv6h7pPpOs2kz0)


“We believe that posing for a photograph clutching a large gun in a location where racks of more weapons are clearly available, is reckless, insensitive and inappropriate.”





Interestingly, at the times of both Hungerford and Dunblane there was a Tory Government. Both times they took swift action, with cross-party support if I remember correctly, to tighten the gun laws.


I read that there has been 232 mass shootings over there so far this year. There has been 150 days this year.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57293174


What the actual ****

[Crunchie]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57293174


What the actual ****
You're blaming Trump for this? :confused:

[Moulin Yarns]

You're blaming Trump for this? :confused:

Where did I do that?

The post immediately before mine also talked about mass shootings, would you like to complain about it too? 🙄

FWIW, Trump has a lot to answer for when it comes to the gun lobby in America.

[JimBHibees]

Interestingly, at the times of both Hungerford and Dunblane there was a Tory Government. Both times they took swift action, with cross-party support if I remember correctly, to tighten the gun laws.


I read that there has been 232 mass shootings over there so far this year. There has been 150 days this year.

I think there was also a high profile campaign against gun control by hunting shooting lobby supported by many including the late Prince who made some crass comment about cricket bats in relation to dunblane.

[AltheHibby]

I think there was also a high profile campaign against gun control by hunting shooting lobby supported by many including the late Prince who made some crass comment about cricket bats in relation to dunblane.

I don't remember that. But then again, there's a lot I dont remember these days.

[easty]

https://mobile.twitter.com/BFriedmanDC/status/1401406435121106947?s=1005

[WeeRussell]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-57293174


What the actual ****

22 THOUSAND rounds?!

I've never heard numbers anywhere like that outside of war.

[Lendo]

https://mobile.twitter.com/BFriedmanDC/status/1401406435121106947?s=1005

I cannot fathom this at all. It’s like an optical illusion. Once it’s in your head that he’s wearing his trousers backwards that’s all you can see.

[Bostonhibby]

I cannot fathom this at all. It’s like an optical illusion. Once it’s in your head that he’s wearing his trousers backwards that’s all you can see.He maybe got up in the morning and put the top half of his body on the wrong way round?

I mean it's possible, look what happened with the orange wavey thing on top of his head.

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[Jim44]

Maybe he’s way ahead in the vanguard of fashion.

[Just Alf]

What else can you do when having a pee mistake just before going onstage :greengrin


Fake tho :-(



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[wookie70]

https://mobile.twitter.com/BFriedmanDC/status/1401406435121106947?s=1005
Such a pity it is fake but it just shows how low my opinion of him is that it was definitely believable

[Crunchie]

Such a pity it is fake but it just shows how low my opinion of him is that it was definitely believable
Opinions aside, how can you believe anyone can put a pair of trousers on backwards :confused:

[Hibbyradge]

Opinions aside, how can you believe anyone can put a pair of trousers on backwards :confused:

I understand why you ask that, but you'd be surprised what people with mental illnesses do.

My wife worked at a medium secure unit and wearing clothes backward was one of the least bizarre things some of the patients got up to.

Also, another friend's wife works with autistic kids and she's known children who would insist on buttoning their shirts/blouses up the back.

Trump clearly has got issues with his mental health, but I doubt it's reached that stage...yet.

[Hibs Class]

Opinions aside, how can you believe anyone can put a pair of trousers on backwards :confused:

I know it's fake, but there was a suggestion (also fake) that he wears trousers with elasticated waist and no zip - they could easily be put on backwards.

[CloudSquall]

...warned against illegal migration to the US, saying: "Do not come. Do not come. The United States will continue to enforce our laws and secure our borders."


"If you come to our border, you will be turned back."










No, not Trump, Kamala Harris this time, who still hasn't visited the border.


Just playing devil's advocate and genuinely interested to know why(if) this is any different to the language used by Trump and the Republicans?

[Hibbyradge]

...warned against illegal migration to the US, saying: "Do not come. Do not come. The United States will continue to enforce our laws and secure our borders."


"If you come to our border, you will be turned back."










No, not Trump, Kamala Harris this time, who still hasn't visited the border.


Just playing devil's advocate and genuinely interested to know why(if) this is any different to the language used by Trump and the Republicans?

Trump wanted to stop Mexicans, Muslims and anyone who wasn't white American coming into the US whether they were legal or illegal. This included genuine asylum seekers.

Illegal immigration will be stopped by every government in the world and rightly so.

[Kato]

...warned against illegal migration to the US, saying: "Do not come. Do not come. The United States will continue to enforce our laws and secure our borders."


"If you come to our border, you will be turned back."










No, not Trump, Kamala Harris this time, who still hasn't visited the border.


Just playing devil's advocate and genuinely interested to know why(if) this is any different to the language used by Trump and the Republicans?She's not talking about "sh#thole" countries, she's not calling all Mexicans rapists - talking about border control isn't racist the last time I checked. Unless its accompanied by the type of rhetoric Trump employed.

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[Tyler Durden]

...warned against illegal migration to the US, saying: "Do not come. Do not come. The United States will continue to enforce our laws and secure our borders."


"If you come to our border, you will be turned back."










No, not Trump, Kamala Harris this time, who still hasn't visited the border.


Just playing devil's advocate and genuinely interested to know why(if) this is any different to the language used by Trump and the Republicans?

It has been condemned by the likes of AOC. Seeking asylum at the US border is a legal method.

[HUTCHYHIBBY]

I watched a documentary on PBS America yesterday, American Insurrection, scary stuff.

[Crunchie]

She's not talking about "sh#thole" countries, she's not calling all Mexicans rapists - talking about border control isn't racist the last time I checked. Unless its accompanied by the type of rhetoric Trump employed.

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Trump didn't call ALL Mexicans rapists either, but I'm guessing you know that already.

He was quite right in stating a large percentage of major crime is committed by illegal aliens in the country, something that the vast majority of Mexicans living LEGALLY in the USA agreed with.

[Callum_62]

Trump didn't call ALL Mexicans rapists either, but I'm guessing you know that already.

He was quite right in stating a large percentage of major crime is committed by illegal aliens in the country, something that the vast majority of Mexicans living LEGALLY in the USA agreed with.When do we beat Mexico at the border? They're laughing at us, at our stupidity. And now they are beating us economically. They are not our friend, believe me. But they're killing us economically.

The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else's problems.

(APPLAUSE)

Thank you. It's true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

Ringing endorsement right enough [emoji23]

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[Crunchie]

When do we beat Mexico at the border? They're laughing at us, at our stupidity. And now they are beating us economically. They are not our friend, believe me. But they're killing us economically.

The U.S. has become a dumping ground for everybody else's problems.

(APPLAUSE)

Thank you. It's true, and these are the best and the finest. When Mexico sends its people, they're not sending their best. They're not sending you. They're not sending you. They're sending people that have lots of problems, and they're bringing those problems with us. They're bringing drugs. They're bringing crime. They're rapists. And some, I assume, are good people.

Ringing endorsement right enough [emoji23]

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Some things he said at rallies were a bit ott, his basic message was what I said.

[Hibrandenburg]

Some things he said at rallies were a bit ott, his basic message was what I said.

So his basic message was not what he said himself but what you said? :faf:

[Stairway 2 7]

Trump didn't call ALL Mexicans rapists either, but I'm guessing you know that already.

He was quite right in stating a large percentage of major crime is committed by illegal aliens in the country, something that the vast majority of Mexicans living LEGALLY in the USA agreed with.

What percentage of major crime is done by illegal immigrants would love to know. Surprised vast majority agreed with him as vast majority voted against him

[Crunchie]

What percentage of major crime is done by illegal immigrants would love to know. Surprised vast majority agreed with him as vast majority voted against him
I think you'll find he had a large Mexican and Black vote. I think you'll also find Obama was tough on the border issue as well but it seems to have been conveniently airbrushed by the loony left.

[Crunchie]

So his basic message was not what he said himself but what you said? :faf:

Hilarious right enough
:faf:

[lapsedhibee]

I think you'll find he had a large Mexican and Black vote.

Trump got somewhere around 10% of the black vote and Biden around 90%. Larger than 2016 but not large.

[Kato]

I think you'll find he had a large Mexican and Black vote. I think you'll also find Obama was tough on the border issue as well but it seems to have been conveniently airbrushed by the loony left.Is that the loonies who stormed the Capitol building imagining there was going to be a revolution? Or the loonies who thought QAnon was going to unveil himself at Biden's inauguration, killing or arresting everyone present?

Those loonies?

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[Callum_62]

Some things he said at rallies were a bit ott, his basic message was what I said.A bit ott?

So your saying the president of the US can say whatever aslong as you can decipher that into something less crass and less racist?



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[Callum_62]

Is that the loonies who stormed the Capitol building imagining there was going to be a revolution? Or the loonies who thought QAnon was going to unveil himself at Biden's inauguration, killing or arresting everyone present?

Those loonies?

Sent from my SM-A405FN using TapatalkYeah the 'loony left' are the real bad guys

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[Callum_62]

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/15/kremlin-papers-appear-to-show-putins-plot-to-put-trump-in-white-house?__twitter_impression=true

The loony left?

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[Lendo]

https://amp.theguardian.com/world/2021/jul/15/kremlin-papers-appear-to-show-putins-plot-to-put-trump-in-white-house?__twitter_impression=true

The loony left?

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Only a matter of time before the pee per video they have of Trump leaks (excuse the pun)

[hibsbollah]

https://www.ft.com/content/a2e499d0-10f0-4fa2-8243-e23eedc4f9f4?segmentID=ba5c37f3-1ef2-1603-ca72-c26f292ab7db&fbclid=IwAR3DlCHj4D7F1bJbGBrLC92MbHcuyioYC_gs3jlCZ 5OHuzTRHAcC2BrJoPM

[Hibbyradge]

https://www.ft.com/content/a2e499d0-10f0-4fa2-8243-e23eedc4f9f4?segmentID=ba5c37f3-1ef2-1603-ca72-c26f292ab7db&fbclid=IwAR3DlCHj4D7F1bJbGBrLC92MbHcuyioYC_gs3jlCZ 5OHuzTRHAcC2BrJoPM

Paywall 😢

[hibsbollah]

Paywall 😢

I’ll summarise; basically Trump has strengthened his power base in the GOP, if hes still alive in 2024 he’ll be the unopposed candidate and his agenda will be proper Turkey/Hungarian style full authoritarian rule. Also some unbelievable stats about faith/trust in democracy as an idea.

[Hibbyradge]

I’ll summarise; basically Trump has strengthened his power base in the GOP, if hes still alive in 2024 he’ll be the unopposed candidate and his agenda will be proper Turkey/Hungarian style full authoritarian rule. Also some unbelievable stats about faith/trust in democracy as an idea.

****

[GRA]

The odious orange clown is now launching his own social media platform.... and calling it.... kid you not.... TRUTH social :clown:

https://eu.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2021/10/20/donald-trump-announces-new-media-platform-truth-social-after-twitter-ban/6113559001/

If ever an idea captures Doublethink in Orwell's 1984 this is it!

[stokesmessiah]

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/donald-trump-alec-baldwin-deliberate-b1952641.html?amp

In short….I hated him taking the mickey out of me so I will totally smear his name. What a ****bag Trump is.

[heretoday]

Trump will get in again next time if he survives that long.

[Northernhibee]

Trump will get in again next time if he survives that long.

I think you could be right.

[He's here!]

Trump will get in again next time if he survives that long.

Extraordinary but probably true. Biden looks like he might struggle to serve one term, let alone two and as Lionel Shriver points out his veep comes across as 'an incompetent dolt'.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/a-re-gift-to-donald-trump

[Stairway 2 7]

Extraordinary but probably true. Biden looks like he might struggle to serve one term, let alone two and as Lionel Shriver points out his veep comes across as 'an incompetent dolt'.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/a-re-gift-to-donald-trump

Shriver is a brexit loving racist so I can see how she would be more aligned with trump than kamala

[hibsbollah]

Extraordinary but probably true. Biden looks like he might struggle to serve one term, let alone two and as Lionel Shriver points out his veep comes across as 'an incompetent dolt'.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/a-re-gift-to-donald-trump

She has 'historically low approval ratings for a VP' is the current headline. Its 48%. Trumps is 37% so Fox should really calm down. Martin Luther King's was 33% when he was alive, it is now 79%. The lesson here is if Kamala wants to be popular, she needs to get shot and wait 50 years for all the racists to die off.

[Keith_M]

Cortez apparently has a high approval rating among a certain demographic, so it might be an idea to put her forward as the next presidential candidate.

[AT8]

She has 'historically low approval ratings for a VP' is the current headline. Its 48%. Trumps is 37% so Fox should really calm down. Martin Luther King's was 33% when he was alive, it is now 79%. The lesson here is if Kamala wants to be popular, she needs to get shot and wait 50 years for all the racists to die off.

Where are you getting 48% from? All outlets are reporting it as being 28%.

[Ozyhibby]

Extraordinary but probably true. Biden looks like he might struggle to serve one term, let alone two and as Lionel Shriver points out his veep comes across as 'an incompetent dolt'.

https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/a-re-gift-to-donald-trump

Hard to take the Spectator seriously these days.


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[hibsbollah]

Where are you getting 48% from? All outlets are reporting it as being 28%.

You gov.

https://today.yougov.com/ratings/politics/popularity/Democrats/all
Edit-actually, the matrix is 'Popularity' as opposed to 'Approval' which explains the different figure. Its still a relevant comparison though, as the figures for Trump, MLK, and the other figures i mentioned are correct and on the same matrix.

[cabbageandribs1875]

Capitol riot: 'QAnon Shaman' Jacob Chansley sentenced to 41 months in prison - BBC News (https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-59253090)

https://ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/976/cpsprodpb/6CD0/production/_121565872_gettyimages-1230733976.jpg

A prominent supporter of the baseless QAnon conspiracy has been sentenced to 41 months in prison for his involvement in the US Capitol riot.


Jacob Anthony Chansley was among the Trump supporters who tried to stop Congress from certifying the 2020 presidential election on 6 January.


He earlier pleaded guilty to one felony count of obstruction in an official proceeding.


His sentence is among the longest so far given in connection to the riots.


In addition to his prison sentence, Chansley was sentenced to 36 months of supervised release and must pay $100 (£74) in restitution.


The 34-year-old became one of the most recognisable figures from the siege after being pictured wearing horns and a bearskin headdress, with a US flag painted on his face. He referred to himself as "the QAnon Shaman".

[hibsbollah]

Only 2 Republicans voted to censure Gozar for this.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/republicans-gosar-trump-ocasio-cortez/2021/11/08/ead37b36-40ca-11ec-9ea7-3eb2406a2e24_story.html

Quite incredible what’s happened to the GOP.

[Callum_62]

https://twitter.com/stevesilberman/status/1465926498615918597?t=PWVdZfNkw6UJJyKZP0eRcQ&s=19

That would be criminal surely

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[Callum_62]

https://twitter.com/brianschatz/status/1469181644552564737?t=NxVSZsJ5mc7wA1E_XxST-Q&s=19

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[Hibernia&Alba]

David Cay Johnston has been investigating Trump, particularly his finances, since the late 1980s. History will be astonished a person so unqualified and so criminal became president of the United States. Trump is a magnificent con man and the media didn't do its full diligence on him.


https://youtu.be/qM9Xndn5Gro

[hibsbollah]

David Cay Johnston has been investigating Trump, particularly his finances, since the late 1980s. History will be astonished a person so unqualified and so criminal became president of the United States. Trump is a magnificent con man and the media didn't do its full diligence on him.


https://youtu.be/qM9Xndn5Gro

I read a book called The Plot Against America in about 2005 by Philip Roth which imagined Charles Lindbergh winning the Presidential election over Roosevelt in 1940 and America becoming a dictatorship. Its still weird to me how the writer managed to foretell lots of the things that were going to happen under Trump, without any knowledge of the future, by using historical fiction. Its such a strange book to read again.

[Ozyhibby]

I read a book called The Plot Against America in about 2005 by Philip Roth which imagined Charles Lindbergh winning the Presidential election over Roosevelt in 1940 and America becoming a dictatorship. Its still weird to me how the writer managed to foretell lots of the things that were going to happen under Trump, without any knowledge of the future, by using historical fiction. Its such a strange book to read again.

It’s a TV series now as well. I think with Wynona Rider in it? Not sure what platform I watched it on but I enjoyed it.


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[Ronniekirk]

I read a book called The Plot Against America in about 2005 by Philip Roth which imagined Charles Lindbergh winning the Presidential election over Roosevelt in 1940 and America becoming a dictatorship. Its still weird to me how the writer managed to foretell lots of the things that were going to happen under Trump, without any knowledge of the future, by using historical fiction. Its such a strange book to read again.

Have read most of his work Very talented writer


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[hibsbollah]

Have read most of his work Very talented writer


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Give it a bash, I absolutely loved it.

[Ronniekirk]

Give it a bash, I absolutely loved it.

Aye have read that one One of a handful of writers that I have kept all thier books I have read
Ian McEwan is another


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[Keith_M]

25402

[w pilton hibby]

Donald was responsible for the Covid vaccine. He says...

https://twitter.com/i/status/1474024520721866789

[Callum_62]

https://twitter.com/AP/status/1483684782596890624?t=ePVyaFTiejIk1HKqzU4NQg&s=19

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[heretoday]

Hard to take the Spectator seriously these days.


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I agree. The cartoons aren't as funny either.

[AltheHibby]

At least one Trump is decent.

https://twitter.com/MaryLTrump/status/1490912137317064709?t=q3XO9ff5_2zyDpWc7G58Hg&s=19

Take a look at the troll's badge.

[hibsbollah]

AOC says ten years.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/feb/15/aoc-alexandria-ocasio-cortez-democracy

[WhileTheChief..]

I read a book called The Plot Against America in about 2005 by Philip Roth which imagined Charles Lindbergh winning the Presidential election over Roosevelt in 1940 and America becoming a dictatorship. Its still weird to me how the writer managed to foretell lots of the things that were going to happen under Trump, without any knowledge of the future, by using historical fiction. Its such a strange book to read again.

HBO did a mini-series of it a couple of years ago.

Frightening how totally believable it was. Highly recommend it.

[hibsbollah]

HBO did a mini-series of it a couple of years ago.

Frightening how totally believable it was. Highly recommend it.

Thanks,Ozy mentioned that too, I’ll have a look.

[hibsbollah]

HBO did a mini-series of it a couple of years ago.

Frightening how totally believable it was. Highly recommend it.

Thanks for the recommendation. Very different from the book but it’s excellent regardless. Turturro and Kazan (Herman’s wife) steal the show.

[cabbageandribs1875]

one day this fat lying orange man will end up in court

Jan. 6 panel missing roughly 8 hours of Trump's phone calls - ABC News (go.com) (https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/wireStory/jan-panel-missing-roughly-hours-trumps-phone-calls-83739908)

Jan. 6 panel missing roughly 8 hours of Trump's phone calls

The House panel investigating the Jan. 6 Capitol insurrection has identified a roughly eight-hour gap in official records of then-President Donald Trump’s phone calls as the violence unfolded and his supporters stormed the building

Trump communicated with at least some lawmakers during the insurrection. He spoke, for example, with House Republican Leader Kevin McCarthy, who asked him to call off the mob, according to Republican Rep. Jaime Lynn Herrera Beutler of Washington state, who said McCarthy told her about the call.
She said in a statement, “That’s when, according to McCarthy, the president said, ‘Well, Kevin, I guess these people are more upset about the election than you are.’”

[Kato]

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1508943310483767302?t=b97eixLDmivlAQ386O_oBQ&s=19



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[Ronniekirk]

https://twitter.com/JuliaDavisNews/status/1508943310483767302?t=b97eixLDmivlAQ386O_oBQ&s=19



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Frightening ffs


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[Kato]

Frightening ffs


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkWe are all.. I mean..


They are all in it together.

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[Jim44]

Is there any doubt that Trump is pro Putin and will be supporting him in the present conflict? The appeal to the Americans to get Russki Trump back into the White House is nauseating but the frightening thing is that his huge, idiotic, support will stick with Trump. You would have thought that compassion and support for Ukraine might make ‘Trumpets’ rethink their blind allegiance but I fear not. A Russian victory would see their man back in power, possibly before the next scheduled election. Thank God, Putin’s plans are not going as expected.

[greenginger]

Is there any doubt that Trump is pro Putin and will be supporting him in the present conflict? The appeal to the Americans to get Russki Trump back into the White House is nauseating but the frightening thing is that his huge, idiotic, support will stick with Trump. You would have thought that compassion and support for Ukraine might make ‘Trumpets’ rethink their blind allegiance but I fear not. A Russian victory would see their man back in power, possibly before the next scheduled election. Thank God, Putin’s plans are not going as expected.

https://www.newsweek.com/us-military-killed-200-russians-syria-airstrikes-pompeo-says-trump-considers-883947

Trump bombed the sh*t out the Russians and Syrians for using chemical
weapons in the civil war. Does that seem the actions of a pro-Putin president.

Biden is scared to allow Poland to gift planes to the Ukrainians in case it upsets Vlad Putin.

[Kato]

Is there any doubt that Trump is pro Putin and will be supporting him in the present conflict? The appeal to the Americans to get Russki Trump back into the White House is nauseating but the frightening thing is that his huge, idiotic, support will stick with Trump. You would have thought that compassion and support for Ukraine might make ‘Trumpets’ rethink their blind allegiance but I fear not. A Russian victory would see their man back in power, possibly before the next scheduled election. Thank God, Putin’s plans are not going as expected.

Putin has financed and seduced right wing parties throughout the West. Most if not all the "anti-woke", disruptor, gaslighting, divisive parties have taken his shilling. Its a shake down of the highest order. When Nazi Germany wanted to spread their ideas they had to invade other countries to do it. Putin has already spread his ideas, plenty people agree with his guff.

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[Kato]

https://www.newsweek.com/us-military-killed-200-russians-syria-airstrikes-pompeo-says-trump-considers-883947

Trump bombed the sh*t out the Russians and Syrians for using chemical
weapons in the civil war. Does that seem the actions of a pro-Putin president.

Biden is scared to allow Poland to gift planes to the Ukrainians in case it upsets Vlad Putin.

Trump left Syria to its fate, which was the Russians systematically demolishing swathes of the normal populations' livelihoods and homes.

Taking one incident in isolation, in which the US were bombing Syrians and Russians got in the way, doesn't really sum up Trumps relations with Russia and Putin over the last 10 years or so.

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[greenginger]

Trump left Syria to its fate, which was the Russians systematically demolishing swathes of the normal populations' livelihoods and homes.

Taking one incident in isolation, in which the US were bombing Syrians and Russians got in the way, doesn't really sum up Trumps relations with Russia and Putin over the last 10 years or so.

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If Trump bombed the Russians I think it shows he would take no crap from him.

Has Biden done anything to deter Putin ?

[greenginger]

Trump left Syria to its fate, which was the Russians systematically demolishing swathes of the normal populations' livelihoods and homes.

Taking one incident in isolation, in which the US were bombing Syrians and Russians got in the way, doesn't really sum up Trumps relations with Russia and Putin over the last 10 years or so.

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One incident in isolation ?,

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/397212-president-trump-is-tougher-on-russia-in-18-months-than-obama-in-eight/amp/

[Kato]

One incident in isolation ?,

https://thehill.com/opinion/white-house/397212-president-trump-is-tougher-on-russia-in-18-months-than-obama-in-eight/amp/What does that really matter they aren't point scoring against each other. Both want to disrupt the way of the world, both lie through their teeth to do so. A few dead Russians mean nothing to Trump and less to Putin. The disruption is the thing not the means. Trump is busy this week begging Putin, in the middle of a war that has disgusted anyone with any empathy, to provide kompromat on the Bidens.

The question remains, why have the Russians spent 10-12 years financing right wing parties and individuals?

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[Hibrandenburg]

What does that really matter they aren't point scoring against each other. Both want to disrupt the way of the world, both lie through their teeth to do so. A few dead Russians mean nothing to Trump and less to Putin. The disruption is the thing not the means. Trump is busy this week begging Putin, in the middle of a war that has disgusted anyone with any empathy, to provide kompromat on the Bidens.

The question remains, why have the Russians spent 10-12 years financing right wing parties and individuals?

Sent from my SM-A528B using TapatalkAnd isn't it telling that those right wing parties throughout the world are particularly silent on events in Ukraine.

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[Kato]

If Trump bombed the Russians I think it shows he would take no crap from him.


That's what you think and you are entitled to do so. There is well documented incidents which say the opposite.

"37 times Trump was soft on Russia"

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/17/politics/trump-soft-on-russia/index.html


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[JimBHibees]

That's what you think and you are entitled to do so. There is well documented incidents which say the opposite.

"37 times Trump was soft on Russia"

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/17/politics/trump-soft-on-russia/index.html


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Yes but apart from that.

[greenginger]

That's what you think and you are entitled to do so. There is well documented incidents which say the opposite.

"37 times Trump was soft on Russia"

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/17/politics/trump-soft-on-russia/index.html


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CNN would say that, they’re just the inverse of Fox News.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2018/09/25/on-the-record-the-u-s-administrations-actions-on-russia/

Here’s some more info.

[Hibrandenburg]

That's what you think and you are entitled to do so. There is well documented incidents which say the opposite.

"37 times Trump was soft on Russia"

https://edition.cnn.com/2019/11/17/politics/trump-soft-on-russia/index.html


Sent from my SM-A528B using TapatalkDidn't he ask permission from Putin before carrying out his symbolic bombing raids?

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[Kato]

CNN would say that, they’re just the inverse of Fox News.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2018/09/25/on-the-record-the-u-s-administrations-actions-on-russia/

Here’s some more info.Trump spoke out against a lot of those sanctions. We can argue sources all day. Fact remains Trump often took Putins side over his own secret services advise and preferred to believe Putin than his own people.

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[greenginger]

Didn't he ask permission from Putin before carrying out his symbolic bombing raids?

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IIRC Russia were warned to get their people out of the chemical works before they were bombed.

Nothing about asking permission.

[cabbageandribs1875]

ABC news streaming live coverage of the hearing into the capital hill riot, lots of unseen footage along with that vile repugnant irresponsible nasty orange-faced PoS Trumps part in events

[Hibernia&Alba]

ABC news streaming live coverage of the hearing into the capital hill riot, lots of unseen footage along with that vile repugnant irresponsible nasty orange-faced PoS Trumps part in events

I saw some of it. Liz Cheney, of Trump's own party, skewered him. Evidence from his Attorney General, Bill Barr, was damning. It's going to be a very interesting investigation.

[JimBHibees]

CNN would say that, they’re just the inverse of Fox News.

https://www.brookings.edu/blog/order-from-chaos/2018/09/25/on-the-record-the-u-s-administrations-actions-on-russia/

Here’s some more info.

CNN are miles more reputable than Fox imo.

[bigwheel]

CNN are miles more reputable than Fox imo.

100 percent. Largely quality journos…no comparison with the deep agenda driven content from Fox …

[Hibernia&Alba]

100 percent. Largely quality journos…no comparison with the deep agenda driven content from Fox …

I agree. I think the likes of CNN are lightweight, bubble gum news as a consequence of American commercialism and the battle for ratings. It isn't hard-hitting journalism; for example, you will never see any substantive criticism on Israel on any of the major networks. That said, it isn't just a mirror image of Fox. That channel has done enormous damage to politics in America as a weaponised mouthpiece for the most unsavoury aspects of the Republican Party. The likes of Tucker Carlson are not trained journalists, they are partisan political operatives.

[JimBHibees]

100 percent. Largely quality journos…no comparison with the deep agenda driven content from Fox …

Absolutely the Russell Crowe series The Loudest Voice said it all about Fox.

[Stairway 2 7]

Absolutely the Russell Crowe series The Loudest Voice said it all about Fox.

That was brilliant. Vile man and vile network

[JimBHibees]

That was brilliant. Vile man and vile network

Yes despicable

[Stairway 2 7]

Fox helps things like this

https://mobile.twitter.com/nytimes/status/1535984014519111681

The New York Times
@nytimes
Dozens of members of a white supremacist group were arrested on Saturday in Idaho before they could act on plans to riot at a local Pride event, police said. An apparent leader of the group had a seven-page document outlining a plan in extensive detail.

[Stairway 2 7]

NEXTA
@nexta_tv
·
U.S. President Joe #Biden will be running for a second term, reports White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre

[Jones28]

NEXTA
@nexta_tv
·
U.S. President Joe #Biden will be running for a second term, reports White House Press Secretary Karine Jean-Pierre

I didn’t realise you could do such things from the afterlife.

I wonder if my granny could rustle up some rum truffles and send them through the same portal Biden will use?

[Hibernia&Alba]

One of the big highlights for me yesterday was Trump scamming his supporters post-election for $250 million for a 'fighting fund' to overturn the 'stolen election'. Of course there was no such campaign and Donnie trousered the lot. He just can't help himself, an incorrigible swindler.

[Stairway 2 7]

Can see a us recession pretty soon.

Walter Bloomberg
@DeItaone
·
*US MORTGAGE RATES SURGE TO 5.78% IN BIGGEST JUMP SINCE 1987

The Dow Jones Industrial Average $DJIA falls over 700 points, falling below 30,000 hitting session lows, as stock losses accelerate amid renewed recession concerns

[Hibernia&Alba]

Can see a us recession pretty soon.

Walter Bloomberg
@DeItaone
·
*US MORTGAGE RATES SURGE TO 5.78% IN BIGGEST JUMP SINCE 1987

The Dow Jones Industrial Average $DJIA falls over 700 points, falling below 30,000 hitting session lows, as stock losses accelerate amid renewed recession concerns

Bring back Donnie. This would never have happened had but for a stolen election :greengrin

[Stairway 2 7]

Bring back Donnie. This would never have happened had but for a stolen election :greengrin

Not worth baring thinking about, then again republicans are favourites for the next election so sadly maybe it is

[Keith_M]

I agree. I think the likes of CNN are lightweight, bubble gum news as a consequence of American commercialism and the battle for ratings. It isn't hard-hitting journalism; for example, you will never see any substantive criticism on Israel on any of the major networks. That said, it isn't just a mirror image of Fox. That channel has done enormous damage to politics in America as a weaponised mouthpiece for the most unsavoury aspects of the Republican Party. The likes of Tucker Carlson are not trained journalists, they are partisan political operatives.


Criticism of Israel? In the US?


:faf:

[Stairway 2 7]

Criticism of Israel? In the US?


:faf:

Or in the labour party now..

[Stairway 2 7]

Wow

BNNUS
Former President Trump says he's "very, very seriously" considering pardoning 1/6 defendants if reelected

[Hibernia&Alba]

Wow

BNNUS
Former President Trump says he's "very, very seriously" considering pardoning 1/6 defendants if reelected

He will struggle to get re-elected from jail.

[Hibernia&Alba]

A consequence of Trump getting three Supreme Court picks: strike down laws that haven't even been passed yet. That way you get to ensure, amongst other things, the environment is trashed. An idea Brett 'accused sex offender' Kavanaugh has been pushing.


https://youtu.be/LolRyRMOY7Y

[hibsbollah]

The New Republicans are now way to the right of Le Pen’s party in France. Repeal the 1965 Voting Rights Act, Biden is not the legitimate president, leave the UN, gays are all abnormal.

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/20/texas-republican-party-adopts-far-right-positions

[Hibernia&Alba]

As expected, Roe v Wade overturned by the hard right Supreme Court. Abortion will now be an issue for each state to decide for itself, reversing fifty years of guaranteed reproductive rights for women. A very sad day, and, IMHO, this is motivated by the anti-women's rights agenda of the Republican right wing. Of course they claim they are protecting the unborn, but the religious right is deeply misogynistic. They are not only anti-civil rights, anti-LGBT, anti-worker, anti-environmental protections; their war against women has been part of their platform for decades. Women must be controlled and punished, and removing reproductive rights is a key component of that. Trump's three hard-line right wing appointees are determined to roll back progressive reforms. Only two days ago it overturned the decision of the New York SC on guns, thus making carrying guns in public a protected right.

Women in Republican controlled states will now have to cross state lanes and enter Democratic states to get an abortion. Those who can't afford it, well, will it back to the days of the back street abortionists? It will be interesting to see how laws are changed in Republican states regarding criminal prosecution of women and doctors found to be breaking the law, once abortion is outlawed. No doubt at least some states will outlaw abortion in all cases, including for pregnancies resulting from rape and incest, which will have a huge impact upon women's mental health.

What a warped society, where controlling a woman's reproductive rights is deemed more important than controlling children being massacred in school.


https://youtu.be/zDztJN9-o4c

[Hibernia&Alba]

The New Republicans are now way to the right of Le Pen’s party in France. Repeal the 1965 Voting Rights Act, Biden is not the legitimate president, leave the UN, gays are all abnormal.

https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2022/jun/20/texas-republican-party-adopts-far-right-positions

They absolutely are. It's a lunatic party: authoritarian, anti-democratic, intolerant, anti-science, conspiratorial. It's a process that has taken several decades to reach this point. It began really in the late 1970s, when the religious right started to push their agenda within the party. Reagan put that process on steroids, and now there is no place for moderate centre-right discussion; the GOP is an insane asylum of crackpot thinking.

[Lendo]

As expected, Roe v Wade overturned by the hard right Supreme Court. Abortion will now be an issue for each state to decide for itself, reversing fifty years of guaranteed reproductive rights for women. A very sad day, and, IMHO, this is motivated by the anti-women's rights agenda of the Republican right wing. Of course they claim they are protecting the unborn, but the religious right is deeply misogynistic. They are not only anti-civil rights, anti-LGBT and anti-worker, anti-environmental protections; their war women has been part of their platform for decades. Women must be controlled and punished, and removing reproductive rights is a key component of that. Trump's three hard-line right wing appointees are determined to roll back progressive reforms. Only two days ago it overturned the decision of the New York SC on guns, thus making carrying guns in public a protected right.

Women in Republican controlled states will now have to cross state lanes and enter Democratic states to get an abortion. Those who can't afford it, well, will it back to the days of the back street abortionists? It will be interesting to see how laws are changed in Republican states regarding criminal prosecution of women and doctors found to be breaking the law, once abortion is outlawed. No doubt at least some states will outlaw abortion in all cases, including for pregnancies resulting from rape and incest, which will have a huge impact upon women's mental health.

What a warped society, where controlling a woman's reproductive rights is deemed more important than controlling children being massacred in school.


https://youtu.be/zDztJN9-o4c

Justice Clarence Thomas (the most openly conservatives of the lot) already suggesting that other Supreme Court decisions could be re-evaluated, same-sex marriage and contraception safeguarding.

Just one more step towards America becoming the “Christian” Saudi Arabia

[Ozyhibby]

America needs to get a grip though. They need to stop relying on judges interpreting a 250 year old document. If they want to ban guns, or legalise abortion then they need to vote for it and get it passed into law. There is a majority for both in the US but they need to start voting for it.


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[Hibernia&Alba]

Justice Clarence Thomas (the most openly conservatives of the lot) already suggesting that other Supreme Court decisions could be re-evaluated, same-sex marriage and contraception safeguarding.

Just one more step towards America becoming the “Christian” Saudi Arabia

Contraception is definitely in their firing line; many GOP politicians are open about that. Women should only have sex within marriage and for reproduction; it's a return to the nineteenth century.

I think it's also worth pointing out that ALL Republican appointed SC Justices, when asked by Congress during their nomination hearings, said they supported Roe v Wade as settled law. Furthermore, as 'conservatives' they couldn't envisage overturning settled precedent. Of course, the likes of Thomas, Coney-Barrett, Alito and Kavanaugh are not conservatives but are very radical right wingers, filled with religious fundamentalism.

This is why control of the SC matters so much. Republicans know they can only get a majority in the House by gerrymandering districts. They can only get control of the Senate because tiny rural states (Republican) get two senators, same as Democratic states with hue populations. The demographics are against them, thus appointing right wing Justices ensures they control one branch of government for decades. That's why Republicans blocked Obama's pick, Merrick Garland, for eleven months but rushed through Trump's three picks whilst they controlled Congress.

[Haymaker]

Missouri has already blanket banned abortion. In ALL cases.

Glad I live in NJ where a women's right to choose is encoded in state law.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Missouri has already blanket banned abortion. In ALL cases.

Glad I live in NJ where a women's right to choose is encoded in state law.

Which will include thirteen year old girls raped by a family member, forced to give birth. What a country.

[Haymaker]

Which will include thirteen year old girls raped by a family member, forced to give birth. What a country.

Indeed it does.

[hibsbollah]

Missouri has already blanket banned abortion. In ALL cases.

Glad I live in NJ where a women's right to choose is encoded in state law.

I worked in New Orleans for a month or so in my twenties, loved the place. It’s beyond belief that now Pakistan has more liberal abortion laws than Louisiana, one of the states that have now rushed to criminalise, and now as a dad with teenage daughters I would just never consider living there again. We talk about what’s happened to America a lot on here but I just have this massive feeling of sadness on a personal level.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Indeed it does.

Hard to imagine. It's lunacy and savagery.

[Mcbizz1998]

So the decision on abortion has been handed back to the states and therefore the people. The way it should have been all along. This isn’t a ban on abortion, if the people who live in each state want it, they will vote for those who will give them it.

[hibsbollah]

So the decision on abortion has been handed back to the states and therefore the people. The way it should have been all along. This isn’t a ban on abortion, if the people who live in each state want it, they will vote for those who will give them it.

You DO have a point of course, it’s democracy to a point. But 85% of US citizens want to retain abortion with certain controls and oversights, what about that vast majority that have their constitutional right removed? The militant right have control over the Republican Party now. That’s fine, major companies and investors will start to avoid otherwise booming urban centres like Atlanta, Houston, Dallas and New Orleans because successful people will start to avoid those places and the South and Rural America will get poorer for it.

[Hibernia&Alba]

So the decision on abortion has been handed back to the states and therefore the people. The way it should have been all along. This isn’t a ban on abortion, if the people who live in each state want it, they will vote for those who will give them it.

What? And what about equal protection under the law? What about those women who vote for it but are denied abortion rights? It shouldn't depend upon accident of birth. A woman in Mississippi shouldn't have fewer rights than a woman in California.

If Republican states vote to bring back slavery, would that be okay? Anything the majority wants is okay. If they vote to allow stoning to death of homosexuals, that's okay, they voted for it in Alabama.

[Hibby70]

So the decision on abortion has been handed back to the states and therefore the people. The way it should have been all along. This isn’t a ban on abortion, if the people who live in each state want it, they will vote for those who will give them it.

Does that apply to other civil rights. Should they be able to outlaw homosexuality and introduce slavery if the majority want it?

[Stairway 2 7]

So the decision on abortion has been handed back to the states and therefore the people. The way it should have been all along. This isn’t a ban on abortion, if the people who live in each state want it, they will vote for those who will give them it.

Your either half daft or fishing?

[Haymaker]

Does that apply to other civil rights. Should they be able to outlaw homosexuality and introduce slavery if the majority want it?

Today's announcement has also come with a mention of "Reviewing" same sex and inter-racial marriage along with access to contraception.

[Stairway 2 7]

Does that apply to other civil rights. Should they be able to outlaw homosexuality and introduce slavery if the majority want it?

Yep and lynching and flogging, give the public their choice. Ban unemployment pay, transgender rights and separate water fountains. You want it you got it

[Mcbizz1998]

You DO have a point of course, it’s democracy to a point. But 85% of US citizens want to retain abortion with certain controls and oversights, what about that vast majority that have their constitutional right removed? The militant right have control over the Republican Party now. That’s fine, major companies and investors will start to avoid otherwise booming urban centres like Atlanta, Houston, Dallas and New Orleans because successful people will start to avoid those places and the South and Rural America will get poorer for it.

Certain controls and oversights - that’s quite broad and I would be genuinely interested to know what that meant. Most states that have trigger laws that oppose unfettered abortion, still have some conditions like the welfare of the mother being in jeopardy.

Does the 85% you quoted cover that as a “control or oversight”?

I don’t believe this was ever an issue for the Supreme Court and it’s now with the people. I dislike how the Democrats and left are positioning this as a ban on abortion when it isn’t.

[Mcbizz1998]

Your either half daft or fishing?

Neither mate, maybe just differ in opinion to you.

[Mcbizz1998]

Does that apply to other civil rights. Should they be able to outlaw homosexuality and introduce slavery if the majority want it?

Although this is a straw man as well as a dig at me, its an interesting question. At which point does democracy have to be set aside in the name of morality?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Neither mate, maybe just differ in opinion to you.

But it's nuts. Democracy isn't the same thing as mob rule. There are rights that all must have, in order to protect minorities. Where would you stop, if you go down the line that every majority decision must be carried out? If the public votes to forcibly sterilise everyone with red hair, in order to remove the ginger gene from the gene pool, is that okay? What if the majority votes to euthanise gypsies and execute shoplifters? What are the limits?

Your argument supports the majority always getting their way in law. For the minority it's just tough.

[Mcbizz1998]

But it's nuts. Democracy isn't the same thing as mob rule. There are rights that all must have, in order to protect minorities. Where would you stop, if you go down the line that every majority decision must be carried out? If the public votes to forcibly sterilise everyone with red hair, in order to remove the ginger gene from the gene pool, is that okay? What if the majority votes to euthanise gypsies and execute shoplifters? What are the limits?

It’s not mob rule. It’s voting for what you want.

What is the alternative? Let’s use your ridiculous example about people with red hair. What if the government or some court decided to sterilise them all against the democratic will of the people who live there? Is that fine because those in charge think it’s right?

It works both ways. In your world it’s better the minority get what they want over the majority? That makes no sense. I suggest you just don’t agree with what the majority in these states want.

[CropleyWasGod]

It’s not mob rule. It’s voting for what you want.

What is the alternative? Let’s use your ridiculous example about people with red hair. What if the government or some court decided to sterilise them all against the democratic will of the people who live there? Is that fine because those in charge think it’s right?

It works both ways. In your world it’s better the minority get what they want over the majority? That makes no sense. I suggest you just don’t agree with what the majority in these states want.

It's not really.

What about the women who vote for abortion rights in their State, but are outvoted? Is that fair? Is it fair, for example, that men should have a say?

[Ozyhibby]

I agree. If Americans want this then they have to make it happen. Relying on interpretations of judges of the constitution is a ridiculous way to run a country. Is that much different than allowing priests or imans to interpret the bible or Quran and making it law?
They need to take decisions out of the hands of the judges. They complain that the Supreme Court has become politicised but how could it not be when they allow it to make such massive decisions.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Hibernia&Alba]

It’s not mob rule. It’s voting for what you want.

What is the alternative? Let’s use your ridiculous example about people with red hair. What if the government or some court decided to sterilise them all against the democratic will of the people who live there? Is that fine because those in charge think it’s right?

It works both ways. In your world it’s better the minority get what they want over the majority? That makes no sense. I suggest you just don’t agree with what the majority in these states want.

It doesn't work both ways. There are fundamental human and civil rights that the majority must never be allowed to vote away from the minority simply because they don't like them. No population or court can remove them. The moment you say anything goes according to a majority, those protections are gone. Can you imagine a referendum just now on what should happen to refugees. It wouldn't surprise me if a majority in the UK voted in favour of putting them in concentration camps, for example, such is the toxicity of the issue. Does that mean it should happen? No, because every human has rights that cannot be breached. Democracy must come with safeguards. Mob rule would quickly lead to the breakdown of society.

[Mcbizz1998]

It's not really.

What about the women who vote for abortion rights in their State, but are outvoted? Is that fair? Is it fair, for example, that men should have a say?

That’s called democracy. What if at the next opportunity the state voted FOR abortion.

Is that fair on all the women who are against it?

[Hibernia&Alba]

That’s called democracy. What if at the next opportunity the state voted FOR abortion.

Is that fair on all the women who are against it?

But is isn't; it's called mob rule. Democracy is something else.

[Mcbizz1998]

It doesn't work both ways. There are fundamental human and civil rights that the majority must never be allowed to vote away from the minority simply because they don't like them. No population or court can remove them. The moment you say anything goes according to a majority, those protections are gone. Can you imagine a referendum just now on what should happen to refugees. It wouldn't surprise me if a majority in the UK voted in favour of putting them in concentration camps, for example, such is the toxicity of the issue. Does that mean it should happen? No, because every human has rights that cannot be breached. Democracy must come with safeguards. Mob rule would quickly lead to the breakdown of society.

So who decides these safeguards? A court? A President? You?

I don’t believe killing unborn children is a fundamental human or civil right. I believe the right of these children to live is the only human right worth discussing.

[Ozyhibby]

So who decides these safeguards? A court? A President? You?

I don’t believe killing unborn children is a fundamental human or civil right. I believe the right of these children to live is the only human right worth discussing.

And if one person’s human rights caused deliberate and lasting harm to another human being? Does the foetus’s human rights trump the mother’s human rights?


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[Hibernia&Alba]

So who decides these safeguards? A court? A President? You?

I don’t believe killing unborn children is a fundamental human or civil right. I believe the right of these children to live is the only human right worth discussing.

International human rights law is a good place to start.

The rights of the embryo/foetus isn't the ONLY right discussing. You are disregarding the woman and effectively saying you will force her to give birth against her will. Who are you, or anybody else, to force your views upon her? Nobody is saying you must have an abortion, but you don't have the right to make that decision for others. You must have heard the phrase ' your freedom ends where my freedom begins'. You are free from being persecuted by others, but you can't persecute them either. That's essential part of a democracy, it's called the rule of law. You are proposing abandoning the rule of law so that minorities can be persecuted by any vote from a majority wishing them harm. It's insane.

[Mcbizz1998]

And if one person’s human rights caused deliberate and lasting harm to another human being? Does the foetus’s human rights trump the mother’s human rights?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

The child’s right to live trumps the mothers right to use abortion as a matter of convenience, yes. And this is what abortion is used for in the vast majority of cases.

[Moulin Yarns]

So who decides these safeguards? A court? A President? You?

I don’t believe killing unborn children is a fundamental human or civil right. I believe the right of these children to live is the only human right worth discussing.

Now you are admitting your pro-life anti abortion bias

[Mcbizz1998]

International human rights law is a good place to start.

The rights of the embryo/foetus isn't the ONLY right discussing. You are disregarding the woman and effectively saying you will force her to give birth against her will. Who are you, or anybody else, to force your views upon her? Nobody is saying you must have an abortion, but you don't have the right to make that decision for others. You must have heard the phrase ' your freedom ends where my freedom begins'. You are free from being persecuted by others, but you can't persecute them either. That's essential part of a democracy, it's called the rule of law. You are proposing abandoning the rule of law so that minorities can be persecuted by any vote from a majority wishing them harm. It's insane.

Well this is where we differ. Clearly you don’t believe an unborn child is a person and therefore has no rights? I believe they are viable people and to kill then as a matter of convenience is wrong. Somehow that’s become an evil immoral stance to take in todays world but there we go.

Nobody is forcing the woman to do anything. She is responsible for herself and for getting pregnant (other than in cases of rape where I believe abortion should be an option). Once pregnant, I don’t believe anyone has a right to kill the child unless in extreme circumstances.

I believe the rule of law should apply to everyone, especially the most vulnerable- like baby’s.

[Mcbizz1998]

Now you are admitting your pro-life anti abortion bias

Yes I’m pro life and I’m anti abortion. I’m not afraid or ashamed to say that.

I don’t believe killing the unborn is right, somehow I’m the bad guy. So be it.

[Hibrandenburg]

Yep and lynching and flogging, give the public their choice. Ban unemployment pay, transgender rights and separate water fountains. You want it you got it

I've heard summary execution is on the cards for people driving slower than 55 on the highway, unless they're listening to country and western of course.

[CropleyWasGod]

Well this is where we differ. Clearly you don’t believe an unborn child is a person and therefore has no rights? I believe they are viable people and to kill then as a matter of convenience is wrong. Somehow that’s become an evil immoral stance to take in todays world but there we go.

Nobody is forcing the woman to do anything. She is responsible for herself and for getting pregnant (other than in cases of rape where I believe abortion should be an option). Once pregnant, I don’t believe anyone has a right to kill the child unless in extreme circumstances.

I believe the rule of law should apply to everyone, especially the lost venerable - like baby’s.

You mean that?

[hibsbollah]

Certain controls and oversights - that’s quite broad and I would be genuinely interested to know what that meant. Most states that have trigger laws that oppose unfettered abortion, still have some conditions like the welfare of the mother being in jeopardy.

Does the 85% you quoted cover that as a “control or oversight”?

I don’t believe this was ever an issue for the Supreme Court and it’s now with the people. I dislike how the Democrats and left are positioning this as a ban on abortion when it isn’t.

Controls and oversights refer to all the mitigating circumstances that Alabama has just positioned itself to the outside of- in cases of rape, incest, rape AND incest, where the mother is in imminent medical danger and that sort of stuff. And of course early abortions where there is barely a foetus formed. The situations where even fundamentalist clerical states like Iran allow abortion...

[Mcbizz1998]

You mean that?

Emm…..yep!

[hibsbollah]

The child’s right to live trumps the mothers right to use abortion as a matter of convenience, yes. And this is what abortion is used for in the vast majority of cases.

You are really badly informed on this subject.

[CropleyWasGod]

Emm…..yep!

So by that, you mean that the man has no responsibilty?

[Lendo]

Well this is where we differ. Clearly you don’t believe an unborn child is a person and therefore has no rights? I believe they are viable people and to kill then as a matter of convenience is wrong. Somehow that’s become an evil immoral stance to take in todays world but there we go.

Nobody is forcing the woman to do anything. She is responsible for herself and for getting pregnant (other than in cases of rape where I believe abortion should be an option). Once pregnant, I don’t believe anyone has a right to kill the child unless in extreme circumstances.

I believe the rule of law should apply to everyone, especially the most vulnerable- like baby’s.

Holy ****.

[Moulin Yarns]

I've heard summary execution is on the cards for people driving slower than 55 on the highway, unless they're listening to country and western of course.

😂 Somehow I don't think everyone will appreciate this, does it only apply on motorways and dual carriageways? Asking for the old boy in Fife.

[hibsbollah]

Although this is a straw man as well as a dig at me, its an interesting question. At which point does democracy have to be set aside in the name of morality?

It’s not a straw man, it’s a very appropriate comparison. And you need to park your version of morality as well, because it’s very very debatable. So try answering it.

[Mcbizz1998]

So by that, you mean that the man has no responsibilty?

Nope. Not what I said unsure where you inferred that from my post.

[Moulin Yarns]

So by that, you mean that the man has no responsibilty?

You're sowing the seed of doubt 😉

[CropleyWasGod]

Nope. Not what I said unsure where you inferred that from my post.

Probably from the use of "She is responsible for herself and for getting pregnant".

I'd say that's a reasonable inference.

You might want to re-phrase it to avoid others thinking the same.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://www.publichealthscotland.scot/publications/termination-of-pregnancy-statistics/termination-of-pregnancy-statistics-year-ending-december-2021/

Just for context, scottish abortion statistics. Higher rates in areas of deprivation unsurprisingly, but let's force them into greater deprivation by making them have large families? 🤔

[Mcbizz1998]

Probably from the use of "She is responsible for herself and for getting pregnant".

I'd say that's a reasonable inference.

You might want to re-phrase it to avoid others thinking the same.

I never said solely responsible, did I? Nah, if others are unable to read and understand English then I’m not holding their hand.

I think men have a huge part to play too and I’m sure men are guilty of encouraging and sometimes forcing women into abortions in order to shirk their own responsibilities for the woman’s pregnancy.

[Hibrandenburg]

Well this is where we differ. Clearly you don’t believe an unborn child is a person and therefore has no rights? I believe they are viable people and to kill then as a matter of convenience is wrong. Somehow that’s become an evil immoral stance to take in todays world but there we go.

Nobody is forcing the woman to do anything. She is responsible for herself and for getting pregnant (other than in cases of rape where I believe abortion should be an option). Once pregnant, I don’t believe anyone has a right to kill the child unless in extreme circumstances.

I believe the rule of law should apply to everyone, especially the most vulnerable- like baby’s.

Men also don't have to do anything (other than in cases of rape), where does their responsibility start and end in your view?

[Mcbizz1998]

It’s not a straw man, it’s a very appropriate comparison. And you need to park your version of morality as well, because it’s very very debatable. So try answering it.

It’s pretty much the definition of a straw man. He never refuted my point, just came up with a made up a hypothetical scenario and demanded I answer it. That’s a straw man.

Well, as I said it’s a very interesting question. There are lots of countries around the world that have laws and practices that don’t align with our western values and they are supported by the majority of people (gay rights in Africa). I’m not saying I know the answer. Sorry.

[CropleyWasGod]

I never said solely responsible, did I? Nah, if others are unable to read and understand English then I’m not holding their hand.

I think men have a huge part to play too and I’m sure men are guilty of encouraging and sometimes forcing women into abortions in order to shirk their own responsibilities for the woman’s pregnancy.

No need for the snide comments. It was a genuine request for clarification.

[Mcbizz1998]

Men also don't have to do anything (other than in cases of rape), where does their responsibility start and end in your view?

They should have to do something. They should take responsibility and be fathers to the child. It starts the moment they have sex and take the chance of having a child. If that comes to pass they should step up. The hook up culture we now live in means that most young men don’t agree and leave women to pick up the pieces.

[Mcbizz1998]

No need for the snide comments. It was a genuine request for clarification.

Fair enough mate, my bad. Apologies.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Yes I’m pro life and I’m anti abortion. I’m not afraid or ashamed to say that.

I don’t believe killing the unborn is right, somehow I’m the bad guy. So be it.

Nobody is calling you a bad guy. I understand the arguments about protecting the most vulnerable. I was raised Catholic and I know it's an ethical issue a lot of people agonise over. In a perfect world there would never be need for abortion, but we don't live in a perfect world. Real life gets in the way. The central question for me is whether or not a woman should have the right to control her own reproduction. For me, yes, because forcing a woman to give birth against her will is, I believe, a violation of her human rights and even a from of torture. I don't think anybody is 'pro-abortion' in the sense of it being a good thing, but on balance I don't think there is an alternative. As the saying goes, you can't be a little bit pregnant, so what's the best thing to do? I think allowing a termination to a woman who doesn't want a pregnancy is a far lesser evil than forcing her to give birth against her will. Of course there are legal safeguards, such as time limits. We must also remember that outlawing abortions won't stop them. Women will still have illegal and unsafe abortions and will die as a result.

[heretoday]

I used to long to go to America. Not now.
Maybe New York just to see the sights.

[Stairway 2 7]

Interesting section in the classic data book freakanomics. There was a marked huge and steady decrease in every kind of crime starting about 15 year post roe v wade. Less people having children they couldn't afford or emotionally care for.

I hope none of the republican nutters have ever had an eduardo the tank, as every sperms is sacred

[Stairway 2 7]

I used to long to go to America. Not now.
Maybe New York just to see the sights.

New yorks a **** hole with undeniable jems in it. Poverty is just everywhere, even all over manhatten be good if you like a smoke as about the same amount of hash shops as the dam now.

[Hibernia&Alba]

Another question this throws up is what happens to women who are caught breaking the law by having an illegal abortion? Are they going to be prosecuted, given a criminal record, perhaps even jailed? How will it work in practice?

[Moulin Yarns]

Nobody is calling you a bad guy. I understand the arguments about protecting the most vulnerable. I was raised Catholic and I know it's an ethical issue a lot of people agonise over. In a perfect world there would never be need for abortion, but we don't live in a perfect world. Real life gets in the way. The central question for me is whether or not a woman should have the right to control her own reproduction. For me, yes, because forcing a woman to give birth against her will is, I believe, a violation of her human rights and even a from of torture. I don't think anybody is 'pro-abortion' in the sense of it being a good thing, but on balance I don't think there is an alternative. As the saying goes, you can't be a little bit pregnant, so what's the best thing to do? I think allowing a termination to a woman who doesn't want a pregnancy is a far lesser evil than forcing her to give birth against her will. Of course there are legal safeguards, such as time limits. We must also remember that outlawing abortions won't stop them. Women will still have illegal and unsafe abortions and will die as a result.

Absolutely. I posted the Scottish statistics 20 minutes ago and they pointed out that most abortions were 'therapeutic' and the majority were in areas of deprivation.

So far there has been no response to the question, why increase deprivation by forcing large families on young women who are probably having to go to food banks already?

[Stairway 2 7]

Macron trying to virtue signal but being shown up as the right wing nipple he is.

acron
@EmmanuelMacron

Abortion is a fundamental right for all women. It must be protected. I wish to express my solidarity with the women whose liberties are being undermined by the Supreme Court of the United States

Devan Sinha
@DevanSinha
·
11m
Abortion laws in France (14 weeks, even in cases of rape) are marginally more restrictive than the Mississippi law SCOTUS upheld today (Dobbs v. Jackson, 15 weeks) overruling Roe v. Wade.

Europe is not a paragon of women's reproductive rights. Some nations do better than others

[Hibrandenburg]

They should have to do something. They should take responsibility and be fathers to the child. It starts the moment they have sex and take the chance of having a child. If that comes to pass they should step up. The hook up culture we now live in means that most young men don’t agree and leave women to pick up the pieces.

Just how do you juggle being a father to 4 kids by different mothers?

Isn't it strange how all these religious US political/preacher nutjobs who preach about morality, are normally the same guys who get caught sending photos of their trouser snakes to choir girls/boys.

[Stairway 2 7]

Ahmed Ali
@MrAhmednurAli
·

You can never ban abortion, you can only ban safe abortions. Read that again

[Mcbizz1998]

Nobody is calling you a bad guy. I understand the arguments about protecting the most vulnerable. I was raised Catholic and I know it's an ethical issue a lot of people agonise over. In a perfect world there would never be need for abortion, but we don't live in a perfect world. Real life gets in the way. The central question for me is whether or not a woman should have the right to control her own reproduction. For me, yes, because forcing a woman to give birth against her will is, I believe, a violation of her human rights and even a from of torture. I don't think anybody is 'pro-abortion' in the sense of it being a good thing, but on balance I don't think there is an alternative. As the saying goes, you can't be a little bit pregnant, so what's the best thing to do? I think allowing a termination to a woman who doesn't want a pregnancy is a far lesser evil than forcing her to give birth against her will. Of course there are legal safeguards, such as time limits. We must also remember that outlawing abortions won't stop them. Women will still have illegal and unsafe abortions and will die as a result.

Well, some people absolutely do think pro-life is bad . A quick look on Twitter tonight is an eye opener on that one haha! Also, some people seem to very much be pro-abortion - with some even bragging about how many they have had on social media! Im not sure if that’s just due to how polarised some people are on the issue that they are being extreme?

I appreciate what you are saying though about women being forced to reproduce. My view is that the hook up culture we live in takes away the responsibility people (both sexes) have when having sex. Women aren’t forced to give birth, because in almost all cases they aren’t forced to have sex. Once sex is separated from reproduction, as it is in todays world, I can very much agree with the argument you are making.

Women and men have choices if they want to avoid pregnancy. The only party with no choice is the unborn child and I just can’t accept that ending their life due to the poor choices made by the parents is somehow morally right.

[Mcbizz1998]

Absolutely. I posted the Scottish statistics 20 minutes ago and they pointed out that most abortions were 'therapeutic' and the majority were in areas of deprivation.

So far there has been no response to the question, why increase deprivation by forcing large families on young women who are probably having to go to food banks already?

But again, nobody forced them to have unprotected sex? How about people take responsibility for themselves instead of getting pregnant when they can’t afford it and then using abortion as an easy way out?

[Hibernia&Alba]

Absolutely. I posted the Scottish statistics 20 minutes ago and they pointed out that most abortions were 'therapeutic' and the majority were in areas of deprivation.

So far there has been no response to the question, why increase deprivation by forcing large families on young women who are probably having to go to food banks already?

My gran on my mother's side was very devout in her Catholicism and had twelve children as a result, which wasn't uncommon back then. Not only was abortion unthinkable, contraception was a total no-no. Of course it was never discussed, but if she was alive today I would ask her if she would do it differently, if she had the chance. Such a big family took a huge physical, emotional and financial toll on my grandparents. As stated, contraception availability is something the GOP also has its sights upon, in its quest to turn the clock back a century. Sex for women is purely within marriage and in order to get pregnant again. Women of childbearing age are to be brood mares, in and out of the maternity ward every year. Or of course there is the option of married couples having separate bedrooms, like good Christians should. Of course, the Republican Party doesn't believe the state should help those big families it will help create - that's socialism, you're on your own.

[Moulin Yarns]

But again, nobody forced them to have unprotected sex? How about people take responsibility for themselves instead of getting pregnant when they can’t afford it and then using abortion as an easy way out?

So, how do you intend to get these people out of poverty if you are preventing them from having a safe, clinical abortion?

Don't tell me you have never heard of accidents happening.


FWIW, I have no children, not by choice, but to tell people who are fortunate to become pregnant, possibly at the wrong time of their lives, under age for example, that they just have to suck it up and get on with it!!?

[Stairway 2 7]

So, how do you intend to get these people out of poverty if you are preventing them from having a safe, clinical abortion?

Don't tell me you have never heard of accidents happening.


FWIW, I have no children, not by choice, but to tell people who are fortunate to become pregnant, possibly at the wrong time of their lives, under age for example, that they just have to suck it up and get on with it!!?

Yep the you've made a mistake now live with it is as stupid and victorian, as those that say the same about brexit.

[Haymaker]

Another question this throws up is what happens to women who are caught breaking the law by having an illegal abortion? Are they going to be prosecuted, given a criminal record, perhaps even jailed? How will it work in practice?

Yes, certainly in Missouri now, even assisting someone to get one is punishable by time inside.

[Lendo]

But again, nobody forced them to have unprotected sex? How about people take responsibility for themselves instead of getting pregnant when they can’t afford it and then using abortion as an easy way out?

Surely you’re not advocating for the use of contraception? Isn’t that amoral and a sin too, just like abortion?

Every drop of sperm caught in that condom is a dead kid surely.

[Hibernia&Alba]

So, how do you intend to get these people out of poverty if you are preventing them from having a safe, clinical abortion?

Don't tell me you have never heard of accidents happening.


FWIW, I have no children, not by choice, but to tell people who are fortunate to become pregnant, possibly at the wrong time of their lives, under age for example, that they just have to suck it up and get on with it!!?

You're right, those American states which ban abortion will make the lives of poorer women even more difficult. It will be like the bad old days: those who can afford it will go to a private clinic where doctors charge big money for doing abortions illegally. It's a very nice side revenue. Everyone will be told she is visiting family for a few days and it will never be mentioned again. If the woman is poor, it's another baby to feed and clothe or the coat-hanger option...

[Mcbizz1998]

So, how do you intend to get these people out of poverty if you are preventing them from having a safe, clinical abortion?

Don't tell me you have never heard of accidents happening.


FWIW, I have no children, not by choice, but to tell people who are fortunate to become pregnant, possibly at the wrong time of their lives, under age for example, that they just have to suck it up and get on with it!!?

Well, if the alternative is killing a child then ….. yeah!

This ultimately comes down to that. Do you think killing an unborn child is wrong in almost all cases? In my case, yes I do.

I have a friend who’s sister got pregnant at 14. Her mother had high hopes for her to go to university, get a great job, married and do all that parents wish for their children. The girl chose to have her child and I can assure you she wouldn’t have it any other way. Accidents happen but only once you make the decision to have sex which is risky. I just don’t accept that killing the child because it’s not right for you at that particular time is right and I’m genuinely worried for a society that believes it is.

[Stairway 2 7]

With the shockingly low rates of rapists being prosecuted. In some states you'll have more chance of being jailed for getting rid of the pregnancy, than committing the rape that caused it

[Stairway 2 7]

Well, if the alternative is killing a child then ….. yeah!

This ultimately comes down to that. Do you think killing an unborn child is wrong in almost all cases? In my case, yes I do.

I have a friend who’s sister got pregnant at 14. Her mother had high hopes for her to go to university, get a great job, married and do all that parents wish for their children. The girl chose to have her child and I can assure you she wouldn’t have it any other way. Accidents happen but only once you make the decision to have sex which is risky. I just don’t accept that killing the child because it’s not right for you at that particular time is right and I’m genuinely worried or a society that believes it is.

Do you ****

[Mcbizz1998]

Do you ****

Sorry, what?

[Stairway 2 7]

Sorry, what?

Do you sherman tank. Where does the limit stop for you. Is it a wasted seed, the morning after, one week, wait until it has brain function.

What about in cases of incest, rape or being underage

[Moulin Yarns]

Well, if the alternative is killing a child then ….. yeah!

This ultimately comes down to that. Do you think killing an unborn child is wrong in almost all cases? In my case, yes I do.

I have a friend who’s sister got pregnant at 14. Her mother had high hopes for her to go to university, get a great job, married and do all that parents wish for their children. The girl chose to have her child and I can assure you she wouldn’t have it any other way. Accidents happen but only once you make the decision to have sex which is risky. I just don’t accept that killing the child because it’s not right for you at that particular time is right and I’m genuinely worried for a society that believes it is.

Now you will have to explain, at what stage, after conception do you think that the zygote becomes an unborn child? 1 day, 1 week, 8 weeks?

What I suppose I'm saying is that, in the early stages, the assembly of cells in the uterus is just that, undifferentiated cells. Not a child.


Edit : Stairway beat me to it. At least I wasn't premature 😉

[Stairway 2 7]

Trump, asked if he deserves credit for today’s abortion rights ruling, on FOX: “God made the decision." https://foxnews.com/politics/trump-praises-supreme-court-decision-overturning-roe-v-wade

[Mcbizz1998]

Do you sherman tank. Where does the limit stop for you. Is it a wasted seed, the morning after, one week, wait until it has brain function.

What about in cases of incest, rape or being underage

At the point of conception. I’ve already covered the cases of incest, rape etc.

My problem is with the vast, vast majority of cases where abortion is done as a matter of convenience by irresponsible people who have a disregard for human life. Using abortion as a form of delayed contraception.

Where does the limit stop for you? 6 months? 9 months? Just after primary 7?

[Mcbizz1998]

Now you will have to explain, at what stage, after conception do you think that the zygote becomes an unborn child? 1 day, 1 week, 8 weeks?

What I suppose I'm saying is that, in the early stages, the assembly of cells in the uterus is just that, undifferentiated cells. Not a child.

At the point of conception I believe life begins.

[Lendo]

At the point of conception. I’ve already covered the cases of incest, rape etc.

My problem is with the vast, vast majority of cases where abortion is done as a matter of convenience by irresponsible people who have a disregard for human life. Using abortion as a form of delayed contraception.

Where does the limit stop for you? 6 months? 9 months? Just after primary 7?

It’s heartening to see that you’re in the minority here at least.

You never answered my question about advocating for the use of contraception though? Surely if you believe a child is a child at the point of conception then a condom is just as bad as abortion?

[Moulin Yarns]

At the point of conception I believe life begins.

So, where do you stand with a natural abortion?

[Stairway 2 7]

At the point of conception. I’ve already covered the cases of incest, rape etc.

My problem is with the vast, vast majority of cases where abortion is done as a matter of convenience by irresponsible people who have a disregard for human life. Using abortion as a form of delayed contraception.

Where does the limit stop for you? 6 months? 9 months? Just after primary 7?

Conception 😆 it's a couple of cells.

You better not eat meat , harm a fly or masterbate surely then

[neil7908]

Well, some people absolutely do think pro-life is bad . A quick look on Twitter tonight is an eye opener on that one haha! Also, some people seem to very much be pro-abortion - with some even bragging about how many they have had on social media! Im not sure if that’s just due to how polarised some people are on the issue that they are being extreme?

I appreciate what you are saying though about women being forced to reproduce. My view is that the hook up culture we live in takes away the responsibility people (both sexes) have when having sex. Women aren’t forced to give birth, because in almost all cases they aren’t forced to have sex. Once sex is separated from reproduction, as it is in todays world, I can very much agree with the argument you are making.

Women and men have choices if they want to avoid pregnancy. The only party with no choice is the unborn child and I just can’t accept that ending their life due to the poor choices made by the parents is somehow morally right.

I 100% think being anti abortion (I will never call it pro life as that is just bollocks) is bad and completely immoral. I think the position you're hold is wrong in every possible way.

If men got pregnant instead of women you could get the morning after pill from vending machines on every street corner. It wouldn't even be discussed.

Also, the language used in all anti abortion talk is nonsense. "ending theirs life" - what life does a ball of cells have 4 weeks after conception? How is its life being ended?!

[Mcbizz1998]

It’s heartening to see that you’re in the minority here at least.

You never answered my question about advocating for the use of contraception though? Surely if you believe a child is a child at the point of conception then a condom is just as bad as abortion?

Emm no. As condoms prevent conception. Would you like me to use a big green crayon for you??

[Lendo]

I 100% think being anti abortion (I will never call it pro life as that is just bollocks) is bad and completely immoral. I think the position you're hold is wrong in every possible way.

If men got pregnant instead of women you could get the morning after pill from vending machines on every street corner. It wouldn't even be discussed.

Also, the language used in all anti abortion talk is nonsense. "ending theirs life" - what life does a ball of cells have 4 weeks after conception? How is its life being ended?!

That’s a good point, Mr McBizz, is the morning after pill also murder?

[Mcbizz1998]

I 100% think being anti abortion (I will never call it pro life as that is just bollocks) is bad and completely immoral. I think the position you're hold is wrong in every possible way.

If men got pregnant instead of women you could get the morning after pill from vending machines on every street corner. It wouldn't even be discussed.

Also, the language used in all anti abortion talk is nonsense. "ending theirs life" - what life does a ball of cells have 4 weeks after conception? How is its life being ended?!

Yeah I’m very aware of what people think of my views. I don’t want to kill baby’s, you do. I’m the bad guy, gotcha [emoji106]

[neil7908]

Yeah I’m very aware of what people think of my views. I don’t want to kill baby’s, you do. I’m the bad guy, gotcha [emoji106]

Again with your linguistic nonsense. Is a 4 week old ball of cells a baby?

[Moulin Yarns]

At the point of conception. I’ve already covered the cases of incest, rape etc.

My problem is with the vast, vast majority of cases where abortion is done as a matter of convenience by irresponsible people who have a disregard for human life. Using abortion as a form of delayed contraception.

Where does the limit stop for you? 6 months? 9 months? Just after primary 7?

Not in law, at least in English law.

The unborn has no legal status, until born!!!


https://academic.oup.com/medlaw/article/28/1/93/5510054

[Stairway 2 7]

Emm no. As condoms prevent conception. Would you like me to use a big green crayon for you??

Are you a vegetarian. As obviously killing a cow is more messed up than killing a couple of cells.

Killing babies 😆 imagine the baby 2 days post conception lying in a crib

[Mcbizz1998]

Conception [emoji38] it's a couple of cells.

You better not eat meat , harm a fly or masterbate surely then

What has eating meat or harming flys got to do with the sanctity of human life?

Masterbate isn’t a word but anyway, having a **** doesn’t involve impregnating anyone so again? What’s your point??

[Mcbizz1998]

Are you a vegetarian. As obviously killing a cow is more messed up than killing a couple of cells.

Killing babies [emoji38] imagine the baby 2 days post conception lying in a crib

Do you think murdering a pregnant woman is worse than murdering a woman who isn’t pregnant?

The law does.

[Moulin Yarns]

Do you think murdering a pregnant woman is worse than murdering a woman who isn’t pregnant?

The law does.

Need some reference, is the woman murdered immediately after conception, or 10 weeks later?

[Mcbizz1998]

Need some reference, is the woman murdered immediately after conception, or 10 weeks later?

Take your pick, I’m not fussy.

[Jones28]

Well this is where we differ. Clearly you don’t believe an unborn child is a person and therefore has no rights? I believe they are viable people and to kill then as a matter of convenience is wrong. Somehow that’s become an evil immoral stance to take in todays world but there we go.

Nobody is forcing the woman to do anything. She is responsible for herself and for getting pregnant (other than in cases of rape where I believe abortion should be an option). Once pregnant, I don’t believe anyone has a right to kill the child unless in extreme circumstances.

I believe the rule of law should apply to everyone, especially the most vulnerable- like baby’s.

Why can’t the abortion be the choice of the individual? Oh wait, it was. Nobody had to get an abortion.

[Moulin Yarns]

Take your pick, I’m not fussy.

I think you will find that the law is a bit more fussy than you on the matter.

A blastocyst has no legal status, neither has a zygote or even an embryo. You need to be born to have any legal status.

[lapsedhibee]

I have a friend who’s sister got pregnant at 14. Her mother had high hopes for her to go to university, get a great job, married and do all that parents wish for their children. The girl chose to have her child and I can assure you she wouldn’t have it any other way. .

Way you tell it, feel I've missed out a bit not having a mum who was 14 or 15.

[Stairway 2 7]

Way you tell it, feel I've missed out a bit not having a mum who was 14 or 15.

😆

[Moulin Yarns]

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/002398.htm#:~:text=A%20blastocyst%20is%20made%20up ,nourish%20and%20protect%20the%20embryo.

Ha, ha!!

Pregnancy begins on the 1st day of the menstrual cycle, even though it takes the rare chance of a sperm in week 3 meeting the egg


But according to the dotnet expert.....

[Stairway 2 7]

13 states so far going to ban. That's what happens when you let religious fundamentals be in charge. Actually Pakistanis have more progressive rules

[Mcbizz1998]

Way you tell it, feel I've missed out a bit not having a mum who was 14 or 15.

Better that than a mum who decided to kill you I suppose.

Let’s be thankful we all had mums who took responsibility for their children eh? We can all agree on that one. Night all [emoji106]

[Stairway 2 7]

https://medlineplus.gov/ency/article/002398.htm#:~:text=A%20blastocyst%20is%20made%20up ,nourish%20and%20protect%20the%20embryo.

Ha, ha!!

Pregnancy begins on the 1st day of the menstrual cycle, even though it takes the rare chance of a sperm in week 3 meeting the egg


But according to the dotnet expert.....

He'll be pro the morning after pill then