Next Manager?

[easty]

He's over qualified then.

:faf::top marks

[lugz]

I really don’t want Gray to get/take the job, for me we need a massive clear out of the players who purposely downed tools against Aberdeen to get another manager sacked. Those same players would remain under Gray and I can’t say I’d trust them moving forward.

[SeanWilson]

There may well be contractual stuff that means he can comment etc.

And given they’ve already said he’ll be leading on the appointment, it’s going to be his name that’s all over it.

Don’t think we’re naive enough to think he’s not doing anything but the official start date being mentioned definitely has some meaning IMO.

Totally.

My point is if its as easy as SDG and MM is in agreement with that, we wouldn't wait until the 1st June to announce. Entirely pointless.

We are either giving MM the reigns to appoint his own man, or we aren't.

Given his role is to ensure an upwards direction in entire performance, whether he's being paid or not - it would be entirely naive to think he's not tapping up the next victim in the hot seat already.

[Greenworld]

Genuinely [emoji1]Not genuinely [emoji23][emoji23] but I will spot my dummy out [emoji6]

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[Greenworld]

He has zero authority at Hibs, 25% doesn't give them the right to dictate anything, we'll use their expertise and scouting network to our and their advantage.Really they have 2 on the board that means they have rights

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[easty]

He'd learn not to try and play a system where the players can't play it, he'd learn to pay more attention to the defence and not to just think chucking 4 attackers on the pitch will win a game, he'd learn that 2 in the middle in a 442 gets swamped in midfield and no one really plays like that nowadays, he'd learn not to over train the players as if they're in the special forces so as they're knackered after 70 mins, he'd learn not to put square pegs in round holes.

Also that a slow and patient build up won't always work against teams like St Johnstone and Ross County. They'll let you have it in your own half, sometimes you need to be direct and counter them.

[J-C]

If Mackay has been put in total control of the football operations, then he'll be wanting to announce Gray (if it is him), he cannot do this until June 1st when he's in situ.

[SeanWilson]

If Mackay has been put in total control of the football operations, then he'll be wanting to announce Gray (if it is him), he cannot do this until June 1st when he's in situ.

'Ben, I've decided that we're going with Gray. A ken a don't start til the 1st June but probably best if we just get on with it and tell the fans.'

'Malky, I told you, I am here to do all i can to annoy everyone at this club. We will leave them hanging till the 1st June, then announce the cheap option all along'.

Nah.

[Mcbizz1998]

Happy enough if it is indeed Gray.

[Hibs4185]

I’m not mad keen on gray but one thing I just thought of, he’s seen this squad for 4/5 years. Which players have performed and who hasn’t.

He might be the ideal candidate to get rid of the deadwood and keep the promising ones (if any)

You could also argue he’s been a part of the underperforming squad

[Exuberance1875]

Needing an appointment very quickly, cannot afford to waste time here given the size of the job in hand

[Greenworld]

If Mackay has been put in total control of the football operations, then he'll be wanting to announce Gray (if it is him), he cannot do this until June 1st when he's in situ.Can see why you think that but not really an issue Ben Kensell could easily do that.
More likely they club are still talking to people or waiting untill after today and all football is over for the season .


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[JohnM1875]

Needing an appointment very quickly, cannot afford to waste time here given the size of the job in hand

Agreed.

But I’ve already come to the conclusion it’s going to be nowhere near the clear out that I was hoping for or what I think is needed.

Think it’ll be Youan sold and a few duds out on loan and we’ll get four or five first team players in.

Think next summer (I know) will see bigger changes with contracts coming to an end.

[B.H.F.C]

Agreed.

But I’ve already come to the conclusion it’s going to be nowhere near the clear out that I was hoping for or what I think is needed.

Think it’ll be Youan sold and a few duds out on loan and we’ll get four or five first team players in.

Think next summer (I know) will see bigger changes with contracts coming to an end.

Anybody expecting a huge clear out is setting themselves up for disappointment IMO. I’m not saying I wouldn’t like one, but all the crap that we’ve given contracts to over the last few years makes it impossible.

New manager needs to sign the spine of a team, IMO, then try and piece what he has around that to try and get more out of them.

[ekhibee]

I've now read different articles quoting interest in Michael Valkanis, the Ajax assistant coach, for the Hibs job. Dunno how true they are though.

[J-C]

'Ben, I've decided that we're going with Gray. A ken a don't start til the 1st June but probably best if we just get on with it and tell the fans.'

'Malky, I told you, I am here to do all i can to annoy everyone at this club. We will leave them hanging till the 1st June, then announce the cheap option all along'.

Nah.

If they announce Gray now, the fans will just assume it's BK and IG that have chosen him, Mackay will be the new boss going forward and if it is his choice, he should announce it, remember this is all conjecture as we still know nothing, could be someone else.

[GreenGray]

Needing an appointment very quickly, cannot afford to waste time here given the size of the job in hand

Yup, or next season will be another write off.


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[Alex Trager]

Anybody expecting a huge clear out is setting themselves up for disappointment IMO. I’m not saying I wouldn’t like one, but all the crap that we’ve given contracts to over the last few years makes it impossible.

New manager needs to sign the spine of a team, IMO, then try and piece what he has around that to try and get more out of them.

Agreed.

They need to work their way through the ‘bottom’ of the squad.

Get rid of those contributing nothing and send the lads out on loan.

Use the wages we recover to sign 4/5/6 players to come in and replace the current first teamers.

[PatHead]

Needing an appointment very quickly, cannot afford to waste time here given the size of the job in hand

It's more important to get the correct appointment rather than appointing the wrong person quickly.

Names have been mentioned that I wouldn't have even thought about. Japp Stam, Ajax assistant and there will be others that I haven't thought about or heard of.

Then there is research on the assistants Due diligence, interviews, negotiations and references will be required for all candidates. This takes time.

[Gmack7]

It's more important to get the correct appointment rather than appointing the wrong person quickly.

Names have been mentioned that I wouldn't have even thought about. Japp Stam, Ajax assistant and there will be others that I haven't thought about or heard of.

Then there is research on the assistants Due diligence, interviews, negotiations and references will be required for all candidates. This takes time.

Unless they have been in the building all along

[Hibees1973]

It's more important to get the correct appointment rather than appointing the wrong person quickly.

Names have been mentioned that I wouldn't have even thought about. Japp Stam, Ajax assistant and there will be others that I haven't thought about or heard of.

Then there is research on the assistants Due diligence, interviews, negotiations and references will be required for all candidates. This takes time.

Wouldn't appear this was done properly, or at all, on the last three appointments as they all failed miserably.

Fine, MacKay is now a front for the Gordons & Kensell. But can the latter two sit back and not interfere. Both just couldn't help themselves get involved in all kinds of stuff the last few years when they were clearly not qualified to do so.

[NC1875]

I’m not mad keen on gray but one thing I just thought of, he’s seen this squad for 4/5 years. Which players have performed and who hasn’t.

He might be the ideal candidate to get rid of the deadwood and keep the promising ones (if any)

You could also argue he’s been a part of the underperforming squad

He’s been part of the last 4 management teams that have kept all his **** mates playing most weeks.

No thanks. We need someone to come in and be ruthless. Gray is friends with too many of them and that in itself should stop him getting the job.

[bingo70]

He’s been part of the last 4 management teams that have kept all his **** mates playing most weeks.

No thanks. We need someone to come in and be ruthless. Gray is friends with too many of them and that in itself should stop him getting the job.

I want to be ok with Gray getting it but there just isn’t any sound logic to him getting the job, or if there is, I can’t see it.

If he was to get it, the only thing I can think of is that he’s been here so knows the players and there won’t need to be a period of the new manager getting to know the squad. That surely can’t be enough to get the job though?

I think if I was in charge and picking the next manager, i would want Gray to be made assistant while he works towards his UEFA A licence and then his pro qualification.

At this stage though, it’s just far too early for him imo.

[jeffers]

He’s been part of the last 4 management teams that have kept all his **** mates playing most weeks.

No thanks. We need someone to come in and be ruthless. Gray is friends with too many of them and that in itself should stop him getting the job.

Who are his mates ?

[B.H.F.C]

He’s been part of the last 4 management teams that have kept all his **** mates playing most weeks.

No thanks. We need someone to come in and be ruthless. Gray is friends with too many of them and that in itself should stop him getting the job.

There isn’t anything to suggest he would want to continue with all the same players other than people thinking he will. I’d argue someone who hasn’t worked with them day in, day out is going to come in and go down the ‘fresh start for everyone’ route. Besides, whether it’s him or anyone else, they are going to need to get more from a number of them this season at least. It’s fine saying we need to be ruthless but with the number of contracted players we have, we’re clearly going to need to move players on to get any significant number in. What we do bring in this summer really, really needs to be on the money.

[Northernhibee]

Fwiw, almost all the arguments made for Gray not to get the job are actually to his benefit.

He knows the players inside out so he knows who is good, who could be good, and who just isn’t to standard. He’s most likely to know how to make the most of the players in the middle.


He’s more experienced than Stubbs was when he took us over.


He’s got more experience of this league and how you win in it than our last two managers.

Of the names still in the running, he’s by far the one I’d most like to get the job.

[Unseen work]

Fwiw, almost all the arguments made for Gray not to get the job are actually to his benefit.

He knows the players inside out so he knows who is good, who could be good, and who just isn’t to standard. He’s most likely to know how to make the most of the players in the middle.


He’s more experienced than Stubbs was when he took us over.


He’s got more experience of this league and how you win in it than our last two managers.

Of the names still in the running, he’s by far the one I’d most like to get the job.

Disagree that all the arguments for Gray not to get the job are for his benefit.

I just don’t think he’s very experienced at all. Being interim manager for about a week at a time 4 times over 3 years doesn’t change that imo. Being interim is completely different from being the actual manager, the players are all devoid of confidence and you need to give them a quick lift.

The spell as coach has been during a spell where we’ve been a failure, to sack 4 management teams and then say the coach who has been there the entire time is the best man for the job is just mental to me. Not even the assistants. The only reason he’s still here is because of his legend status, he shouldn’t then get it through default of still being here to unite the fans.

Stubbs was a coach at Everton for the under 21s for 5 years prior to coming to us

[Keepthefaith]

There isn’t anything to suggest he would want to continue with all the same players other than people thinking he will. I’d argue someone who hasn’t worked with them day in, day out is going to come in and go down the ‘fresh start for everyone’ route. Besides, whether it’s him or anyone else, they are going to need to get more from a number of them this season at least. It’s fine saying we need to be ruthless but with the number of contracted players we have, we’re clearly going to need to move players on to get any significant number in. What we do bring in this summer really, really needs to be on the money.

did he not suggest that both lewis and Paul could still do a job for us? that doesn't sound like a man who's ready to move on to the next phase of hibs challenge?

[bingo70]

Fwiw, almost all the arguments made for Gray not to get the job are actually to his benefit.

He knows the players inside out so he knows who is good, who could be good, and who just isn’t to standard. He’s most likely to know how to make the most of the players in the middle.


He’s more experienced than Stubbs was when he took us over.


He’s got more experience of this league and how you win in it than our last two managers.

Of the names still in the running, he’s by far the one I’d most like to get the job.

I think it’s debatable to say he is more experienced than Stubbs was.

Stubbs had been a coach for 6 years, some of that time included managing the Everton reserves where he will have gained touchline managerial experience. When to make subs, tactical changes mid game, motivating of players, pre match and half time team talks, being responsible for picking players up after defeats as well as being the main man responsible for day to day training sessions and individual player development.

Stubbs also had his UEFA pro license.

Gray has been 3rd in command with no real responsibilities or accountabilities for 3 years. Other than being caretaker for a few games, hasn’t ever managed a team at any level.

Gray also only has his B license.

I think Gray could go on to be a good manager but i think people are underestimating just how inexperienced he is in terms of his coaching background.

[Unseen work]

did he not suggest that both lewis and Paul could still do a job for us? that doesn't sound like a man who's ready to move on to the next phase of hibs challenge?

I know there was a couple of tongue in cheek jokes about Jair when Gray put him on against Livi, but the thought of him thinking he’s good enough and playing him/giving him another chance is a scary one.

[Ship of Hope]

SDG will always be a hero for 2016 but I can’t help feel it would be a mistake to give him the managers job at this time. It would feel like an easy appointment that the majority of fans would be appeased by but not necessarily what we need. If he gets the gig I will however support him 100% and hope he is successful. I just can’t help feeling he needs to cut his teeth in management elsewhere first rather than walk straight into the hibs job. I would be delighted if he did this and proved himself and then came back and brought success to hibs - who wouldn’t? It would feel like another Maloney type appointment to me at the moment. Good experience in a coaching sense but not proven as the main decision maker / strategist. His record as interim manager hols up well but imo this is very different from doing the job long term.

[Donegal Hibby]

He’s been part of the last 4 management teams that have kept all his **** mates playing most weeks.

No thanks. We need someone to come in and be ruthless. Gray is friends with too many of them and that in itself should stop him getting the job.

Gray hasn't picked the teams as part of the last 4 management teams , the manager's have ! . How do you know he won't make tough decisions and who are all these friends ? .

[bingo70]

Disagree that all the arguments for Gray not to get the job are for his benefit.

I just don’t think he’s very experienced at all. Being interim manager for about a week at a time 4 times over 3 years doesn’t change that imo. Being interim is completely different from being the actual manager, the players are all devoid of confidence and you need to give them a quick lift.

The spell as coach has been during a spell where we’ve been a failure, to sack 4 management teams and then say the coach who has been there the entire time is the best man for the job is just mental to me. Not even the assistants. The only reason he’s still here is because of his legend status, he shouldn’t then get it through default of still being here to unite the fans.

Stubbs was a coach at Everton for the under 21s for 5 years prior to coming to us

My biggest concern if gray was to get it, in addition to the points I just posted about is he doesn’t meet the very specific criteria Mackay said he was looking for.

If we do appoint Gray, I will be worried about what prompted the change of heart about what Mackay thought we were needing.

[B.H.F.C]

did he not suggest that both lewis and Paul could still do a job for us? that doesn't sound like a man who's ready to move on to the next phase of hibs challenge?

What’s he gonna do, come out and say they’re both finished and it’s at long last time they moved on? What he says is pretty irrelevant IMO. No point in judging him on things that are completely hypothetical and might never actually happen.

[Unseen work]

My biggest concern if gray was to get it, in addition to the points I just posted about is he doesn’t meet the very specific criteria Mackay said he was looking for.

If we do appoint Gray, I will be worried about what prompted the change of heart about what Mackay thought we were needing.

100%

If we just decided after Montgomery to give it to Gray, whilst I wouldn’t have been happy with it id have accepted it.

But for us to appoint Mackay, him to give very clear criteria on what he wants, go through a full process of identifying and interviewing managers to end up giving it to Gray, would imo be mental.

If Mackay was at any other club and looking for a manager, Gray wouldn’t be in his thought process. So he shouldn’t be in it for Hibs.

[Lago]

My biggest concern if gray was to get it, in addition to the points I just posted about is he doesn’t meet the very specific criteria Mackay said he was looking for.

If we do appoint Gray, I will be worried about what prompted the change of heart about what Mackay thought we were needing.
Money or the lack of it, cheap option?

[B.H.F.C]

100%

If we just decided after Montgomery to give it to Gray, whilst I wouldn’t have been happy with it id have accepted it.

But for us to appoint Mackay, him to give very clear criteria on what he wants, go through a full process of identifying and interviewing managers to end up giving it to Gray, would imo be mental.

If Mackay was at any other club and looking for a manager, Gray wouldn’t be in his thought process. So he shouldn’t be in it for Hibs.

I don’t think anyone really knows if he meets the criteria or not.

The first thing, coaching. He might be very good at that but had limited input. In fact, a couple of his comments after the Motherwell game suggested to me that he’d have been doing things a fair bit differently. Student of the game, again, none of us really know if he is or he isn’t. The bit about being a people catcher is probably more subjective and none of us, again, really know how much people at the club would want to work for him etc.

If he gets the job it’ll be because McKay thinks he meets his criteria, not because we’ve changed our mind on what the criteria is.

[bingo70]

Money or the lack of it, cheap option?

I dunno, I still don’t think it will be him so I don’t want to get worked up about the club going for the cheap option.

I just don’t think the appointment would make sense at all.

If we appointed someone like John Kennedy for example, I think people would turn there nose up at him. His experience levels are absolutely miles ahead of Gray though.

[bingo70]

I don’t think anyone really knows if he meets the criteria or not.

The first thing, coaching. He might be very good at that but had limited input. In fact, a couple of his comments after the Motherwell game suggested to me that he’d have been doing things a fair bit differently. Student of the game, again, none of us really know if he is or he isn’t. The bit about being a people catcher is probably more subjective and none of us, again, really know how much people at the club would want to work for him etc.

If he gets the job it’ll be because McKay thinks he meets his criteria, not because we’ve changed our mind on what the criteria is.

I don’t think he can claim to be a student of the game whilst only holding his UEFA B license.

I also don’t think he can legitimately say he would be capable of hosting a training session in front of 100 experienced coaches (I can’t remember if that was MM’s exact words, but it was something like that)

I could see Gray meeting the criteria of that people catcher phrase, I don’t think he can give any evidence of it though. Being the popular, good cop whilst being 3rd in command is very different to being the main man taking a team.

[Unseen work]

I don’t think anyone really knows if he meets the criteria or not.

The first thing, coaching. He might be very good at that but had limited input. In fact, a couple of his comments after the Motherwell game suggested to me that he’d have been doing things a fair bit differently. Student of the game, again, none of us really know if he is or he isn’t. The bit about being a people catcher is probably more subjective and none of us, again, really know how much people at the club would want to work for him etc.

If he gets the job it’ll be because McKay thinks he meets his criteria, not because we’ve changed our mind on what the criteria is.

Yeah to be fair I do agree to an extent.

It’s probably my interpretation of what he said that makes me think he doesn’t suit the criteria.

Confident coach/on the pitch and able to implement a game plan/shape - To me that is someone that has more experience than just a first team coach for 3 years. Someone that has a very good grounding and really comfortable taking and leading sessions, implementing their ideas and it making sense to the players.

Student of the game and able to adapt - Gray is definitely a student, but that phrase made me think of someone that isn’t necessarily inexperienced and more that they’re always wanting to learn and improve. Has Gray shown any evidence of adapting/changing tactics mid game? I suppose in fairness putting ALF and Doidge on against Aberdeen where we won. But we’re surely looking for examples of it being done consistently

People catcher - I think this comes/is described a lot for Klopp. Someone that is so passionate, gets everyone on side and makes them believe they can do anything. Again, does Gray have any experience of this as a coach? I’ve no doubt he’s respected in the current team as people will like him as a guy. But will new signings be completely sold on him? Will, after a couple of months, the players we have still buy into his ideas and will he make them be able to believe and take us to an even better level.

Like I said I think it’s just down to how people interpret it, to me it’s someone more experienced and that has a bit more of an aura than Gray has currently.

FWIW I absolutely love SDG and none of this is a dig at him. He is clearly a legend and a leader as a player. It’s just how that translates to a manager and getting him experienced to be as good as we all want him to be!

[B.H.F.C]

I don’t think he can claim to be a student of the game whilst only holding his UEFA B license.

I also don’t think he can legitimately say he would be capable of hosting a training session in front of 100 experienced coaches (I can’t remember if that was MM’s exact words, but it was something like that)

I could see Gray meeting the criteria of that people catcher phrase, I don’t think he can give any evidence of it though. Being the popular, good cop whilst being 3rd in command is very different to being the main man taking a team.

Not having it doesn’t mean he’s not a student of the game. It just means he doesn’t have it and is working towards it (as we’ve seen across the city it’s still possible to do the job well without the badges).

As to the bit about the training session, we don’t have any idea one way or the other.

I’m not mad on the idea of Gray getting the job. I’d just challenge the point that we’d have had some kind of change of heart on the criteria. Having been so public about it, whoever gets the job, it’s because McKay thinks he meets it.

[whiskyhibby]

Fwiw, almost all the arguments made for Gray not to get the job are actually to his benefit.

He knows the players inside out so he knows who is good, who could be good, and who just isn’t to standard. He’s most likely to know how to make the most of the players in the middle.


He’s more experienced than Stubbs was when he took us over.


He’s got more experience of this league and how you win in it than our last two managers.

Of the names still in the running, he’s by far the one I’d most like to get the job.


if we were looking to recruit a manager from the SPL with the same experience of management as Gray, we would be looking at someone with circa 15 games under his belt……..this place would be in uproar

I love DG and everything he stands for, a brilliant hibs player and rightful legend, but now is not the time for his appointment, he needs way more managerial experience

[Donegal Hibby]

I dunno, I still don’t think it will be him so I don’t want to get worked up about the club going for the cheap option.

I just don’t think the appointment would make sense at all.

If we appointed someone like John Kennedy for example, I think people would turn there nose up at him. His experience levels are absolutely miles ahead of Gray though.

Kennedy might have more experience than Gray though that doesn't necessarily mean he will be a better manager, it's much the same when folk said Murray , Thomson had more experience too though i still think Gray comes across much better doing interviews than the 3 of them and I'd still choose Gray over them all .


I'm still not sure Gray will get it though the qualities MM said he was looking for in a manager I think Gray ticks a fair few of the boxes though .

[bingo70]

Not having it doesn’t mean he’s not a student of the game. It just means he doesn’t have it and is working towards it (as we’ve seen across the city it’s still possible to do the job well without the badges).

As to the bit about the training session, we don’t have any idea one way or the other.

I’m not mad on the idea of Gray getting the job. I’d just challenge the point that we’d have had some kind of change of heart on the criteria. Having been so public about it, whoever gets the job, it’s because McKay thinks he meets it.

I think he would want someone that can provide evidence of meeting that criteria and give examples of working at a club when they displayed those attributes. Gray might meet the criteria but he can’t give any evidence of it I don’t think and that’s not the same thing.

I also listened to the sports director podcast Mackay was on and he made a big deal about the coaching badges so regardless of what you or I think about him not having the prevent badges, I think it will be an issue for Mackay.

This isn’t an attempt to batter SDG, I want him to be the Hibs manager at some point, I just don’t think this is the right time, even if he does. I think he would be better playing the long game, hopefully become assistant manager this time round while he works towards his badges, get a bit more responsibility in a more senior role and then when the next manager is headhunted to go to Barcelona he can take over a team from a position of strength, not firefighting at a difficult time for the club.

[Unseen work]

if we were looking to recruit a manager from the SPL with the same experience of management as Gray, we would be looking at someone with circa 15 games under his belt……..this place would be in uproar

I love DG and everything he stands for, a brilliant hibs player and rightful legend, but now is not the time for his appointment, he needs way more managerial experience

Yep, just look at the job Peter Leven has done at Aberdeen since he’s came in, don’t think anyone has suggested or wants him.

[J-C]

Folk going on about his mates in the team, he's not played for 3 years and his last 2 so called mates have been told to go when their contracts are finished, his other mate is the U18 manager.

As for his coaching badges, Jamie Murphy seemed to think he'd done them all back in Dec 21
Murphy said: “We’d be happy for Dave to be here as long as he can. Dave knows what he is doing. He’s done all his coaching badges.

[Lago]

I dunno, I still don’t think it will be him so I don’t want to get worked up about the club going for the cheap option.

I just don’t think the appointment would make sense at all.

If we appointed someone like John Kennedy for example, I think people would turn there nose up at him. His experience levels are absolutely miles ahead of Gray though.
Tend to agree with you, I do have reservations, but time will tell.

[Greenworld]

Folk going on about his mates in the team, he's not played for 3 years and his last 2 so called mates have been told to go when their contracts are finished, his other mate is the U18 manager.

As for his coaching badges, Jamie Murphy seemed to think he'd done them all back in Dec 21
Murphy said: “We’d be happy for Dave to be here as long as he can. Dave knows what he is doing. He’s done all his coaching badges.He had not though

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[ekhibee]

Right now it would be quite interesting to learn just what McKay's role actually is and just how much involvement he is going to take as regards the team. As it stands it looks like quite a lot, and then the role of manager becomes less relevant in the grand scheme of things. From that perspective, Gray might fit in quite well, as he gets used to the role. A more experienced manager might have a very different opinion though, there might be a posibility of resentment of McKay overruling or interfering in managerial decisions. As I've said in another post, Gray certainly wouldn't be my first choice, but I'd give him a chance and support him as Hibs manager.

[BoomtownHibees]

Right now it would be quite interesting to learn just what McKay's role actually is and just how much involvement he is going to take as regards the team. As it stands it looks like quite a lot, and then the role of manager becomes less relevant in the grand scheme of things. From that perspective, Gray might fit in quite well, as he gets used to the role. A more experienced manager might have a very different opinion though, there might be a posibility of resentment of McKay overruling or interfering in managerial decisions. As I've said in another post, Gray certainly wouldn't be my first choice, but I'd give him a chance and support him as Hibs manager.

He explained pretty well what his role was going to be in an interview he did not long after joining. Worth a listen

[matty_f]

Folk going on about his mates in the team, he's not played for 3 years and his last 2 so called mates have been told to go when their contracts are finished, his other mate is the U18 manager.

As for his coaching badges, Jamie Murphy seemed to think he'd done them all back in Dec 21
Murphy said: “We’d be happy for Dave to be here as long as he can. Dave knows what he is doing. He’s done all his coaching badges.

I'm sure he's done more than the B licence. My son was on sessions with him as a runner on some of the sessions that Gray was doing for his badges, think Marvin Bartley was on the course as well amongst others.

[ekhibee]

He explained pretty well what his role was going to be in an interview he did not long after joining. Worth a listen

Thanks for that, I watched/listened to his interview on youtube, I think it was an interview done just after he'd joined Hibs, not sure if he's done others since. TBH I still dunno, for me he sounded quite nervous during the interview, he said all the things the interviewer and listeners probably wanted to hear, but I'm still not quite sure how much of an influence he'll have on the new coach/manager. Obviously time will tell. Is McDermott still at Hibs or has he moved on?

[AlbertK86]

Thanks for that, I watched/listened to his interview on youtube, I think it was an interview done just after he'd joined Hibs, not sure if he's done others since. TBH I still dunno, for me he sounded quite nervous during the interview, he said all the things the interviewer and listeners probably wanted to hear, but I'm still not quite sure how much of an influence he'll have on the new coach/manager. Obviously time will tell. Is McDermott still at Hibs or has he moved on?

https://youtu.be/YWu9SLdYAUQ?si=b_gtjCuaoRrHBXNO

Have a listen to this from before he was at Hibs.

Not answering what he thinks Hibs faans want to hear and his ideas principles are the same.

Long interview but really worth a listen


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[Greenworld]

I'm sure he's done more than the B licence. My son was on sessions with him as a runner on some of the sessions that Gray was doing for his badges, think Marvin Bartley was on the course as well amongst others.Think I read he's either doing or done his uefa B licence

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[Victor]

Think I read he's either doing or done his uefa B licence

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It must be difficult to do this when you have a full time job. Does anyone know if the Club pay his fees for these courses, or does he have to finance them from his own pocket?

[MWHIBBIES]

It must be difficult to do this when you have a full time job. Does anyone know if the Club pay his fees for these courses, or does he have to finance them from his own pocket?

Id imagine Hibs both pay and allow him the time to do it. It benefits Hibs to have him more qualified.

[erin go bragh]

Yep, just look at the job Peter Leven has done at Aberdeen since he’s came in, don’t think anyone has suggested or wants him.

Aberdeen already made the mistake of giving the managers job to an interim in Robson. Once bitten and that.
Love SDG but its not his time imo and would be a massive mistake to appoint him.

[Unseen work]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/former-hamburg-boss-interested-in-hibs-role-as-manager-search-continues-4643327

EEN saying we’re not looking at Fink and Gray remains the front runner.

[bingo70]

Seen someone on Twitter asking for odds for Albert Capellas to get the job.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/albert-capellas/profil/trainer/16563

I still think based on Mackays criteria, someone like that is more realistic than a David Gray or an Ian Murray.

Would certainly be an interesting option and clearly a highly regarded coach, not much joy as a manager in his own right though.

[CapitalGreen]

https://www.edinburghnews.scotsman.com/sport/football/hibs/former-hamburg-boss-interested-in-hibs-role-as-manager-search-continues-4643327

EEN saying we’re not looking at Fink and Gray remains the front runner.

The front runner of an already decided race.

[easty]

Any betting sites actually got this priced up? I cannae see it on Skybet, Paddy Power, Bet365 or Willy Hills.

[bingo70]

Any betting sites actually got this priced up? I cannae see it on Skybet, Paddy Power, Bet365 or Willy Hills.

Mcbookie the only company offering odds as far as I know.

[bingo70]

The front runner of an already decided race.

Think you’ve said this a few times.

Is just this your opinion or something you know for sure?

[CallumLaidlaw]

Mcbookie the only company offering odds as far as I know.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240527/fd279baadc563d3501a644421e8c933e.jpg


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[easty]

Mcbookie the only company offering odds as far as I know.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20240527/fd279baadc563d3501a644421e8c933e.jpg


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Thanks

[GloryGlory]

Seen someone on Twitter asking for odds for Albert Capellas to get the job.

https://www.transfermarkt.co.uk/albert-capellas/profil/trainer/16563

I still think based on Mackays criteria, someone like that is more realistic than a David Gray or an Ian Murray.

Would certainly be an interesting option and clearly a highly regarded coach, not much joy as a manager in his own right though.

Average term as coach - 0.75 years. 9 months - should fit the criteria for Hibs these days! :greengrin

[bingo70]

Average term as coach - 0.75 years. 9 months - should fit the criteria for Hibs these days! :greengrin

Testimonial territory 😂

[Gordy M]

The front runner of an already decided race.

If thats the case mate, you should be taking the bookies to the cleaners(though they prob wont allow you) but Gray is 8/11 so money to be made.

[joe breezy]

If thats the case mate, you should be taking the bookies to the cleaners(though they prob wont allow you) but Gray is 8/11 so money to be made.

I don't bet anymore but had my fingers burnt a few times on manager bets.
Heard Sean Dyche was a certainty for Everton years before he actually got the job.

But yeah there will be limits on a next manager bet I imagine as they will be aware that some people may have inside info.

Would be a bit disappointed with DG tbh but would of course back him and live in hope.

[Springbank]

Average term as coach - 0.75 years. 9 months - should fit the criteria for Hibs these days! :greengrin

In fairness that's 2 years as Denmark U21 national manager, 1 season at Midjetland and 2 games as Barcelona's caretaker manager (100% win record there)

Assistant manager at Borussia Dortmund & Brondy, and Barca youth team coach/manager (which that website doesn't take into account)

It's an intriguing CV

[jeffers]

Think you’ve said this a few times.

Is just this your opinion or something you know for sure?

SDG may well get the job, but the idea that it’s already decided is way off the mark.

[H18 SFR]

The front runner of an already decided race.

I’m going to be absolutely gutted if it is Gray. Really want to turn the page on successive managerial failures.

[NGoloGrantie]

SDG may well get the job, but the idea that it’s already decided is way off the mark.

[emoji106][emoji106] MM is still on his holidays


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[timewilltell]

Gray will be a terrible appointment. Legend, but seriously short of what we need. Will be bitterly disappointing if we opt for this option.

[Donegal Hibby]

Gray will be a terrible appointment. Legend, but seriously short of what we need. Will be bitterly disappointing if we opt for this option.

How do you know that he will be a terrible appointment ?.

[mcohibs]

What other managerial vacancies in Scotland would Gray get close to even getting an interview for? Shouldn’t be managing one of the biggest clubs in the country.

A completely unproven manager is literally the last thing we need at the moment.

[Hiber-nation]

How do you know that he will be a terrible appointment ?.

He doesn't know, no-one does. Any manager within our budget could be a terrible appointment.

I didn't know anything about Monty but I stupidly assumed he'd be big Ange mk 2 given the way he was bumped up by some on here.

[matty_f]

I would think that we're still a bit away from appointing someone and that it's by no means a certainty that SDG will get it. That's not to say he won't, but it's not done yet.

[Since452]

The bar is very low. That might go in the new managers (or head coaches) favour. There is no hysteria about how great they are like there was by a lot of fans when Montgomery was appointed. I still remember feeling massively underwhelmed when Mowbray was appointed. I was completely wrong about that.

[marinello59]

How do you know that he will be a terrible appointment ?.

None of us know how it will turn out no matter who is appointed. I'm at the stage of not really caring who gets the job, I'll just cross my fingers and hope for the best.

[Willis1875]

None of us know how it will turn out no matter who is appointed. I'm at the stage of not really caring who gets the job, I'll just cross my fingers and hope for the best.

Is that you Ben?

[Paul1642]

I don't bet anymore but had my fingers burnt a few times on manager bets.
Heard Sean Dyche was a certainty for Everton years before he actually got the job.

But yeah there will be limits on a next manager bet I imagine as they will be aware that some people may have inside info.

Would be a bit disappointed with DG tbh but would of course back him and live in hope.

Bookies odds when it comes to mangers tend not to be an accurate indicator as to who’s actually got a shout at the job. A couple of not very big bets or even just someone requesting odds tend to make a person plummet in price, hence why Jaap Stam is 7/1 despite not having any chance at getting the job IMO.

[matty_f]

None of us know how it will turn out no matter who is appointed. I'm at the stage of not really caring who gets the job, I'll just cross my fingers and hope for the best.

We really need to sort the stuff around the manager as much as we needed to change the manager (or head coach) to give the next guy a decent chance of success.

There's more to our downward slide than just the head coach appointments, imho. Hopefully Mackay can start to undo some of the mistakes made over the last few years.

[sauzeelegod]

In fairness that's 2 years as Denmark U21 national manager, 1 season at Midjetland and 2 games as Barcelona's caretaker manager (100% win record there)

Assistant manager at Borussia Dortmund & Brondy, and Barca youth team coach/manager (which that website doesn't take into account)

It's an intriguing CV

Yep. Would get me excited if it’s him.

[bingo70]

Bookies odds when it comes to mangers tend not to be an accurate indicator as to who’s actually got a shout at the job. A couple of not very big bets or even just someone requesting odds tend to make a person plummet in price, hence why Jaap Stam is 7/1 despite not having any chance at getting the job IMO.

I agree when the general point you are making, only thing I would say is if SDG already had the job and it was just a case of waiting to see it confirmed, enough people would know and be limping on to close the market down.

The fact someone’s in the betting or their odds shortening doesn’t mean anything though.

Interestingly though, I see from Twitter the person who asked for odds on Albert Capellas has deleted the tweet 🤔. Wonder why they’ve done that? Seems a random name to pull from nowhere, get the odds put up and then delete the tweet straight after?!

[blackpoolhibs]

I dont worry anymore who the hell gets the job now, nowt we can do or say will influence those in charge, and we will get who we get and have to get on with it.

The new guy will get our support, it's for how long is the question.

Please get it right Hibs.:pray:

[Coco Bryce]

I agree when the general point you are making, only thing I would say is if SDG already had the job and it was just a case of waiting to see it confirmed, enough people would know and be limping on to close the market down.

The fact someone’s in the betting or their odds shortening doesn’t mean anything though.

Interestingly though, I see from Twitter the person who asked for odds on Albert Capellas has deleted the tweet 🤔. Wonder why they’ve done that? Seems a random name to pull from nowhere, get the odds put up and then delete the tweet straight after?!

Ask them? 🤷

[J-C]

What other managerial vacancies in Scotland would Gray get close to even getting an interview for? Shouldn’t be managing one of the biggest clubs in the country.

A completely unproven manager is literally the last thing we need at the moment.

Pretty sure someone said Ayr were after him a year or so ago but he knocked it back.

[Hibiza]

Any chance of getting it sorted out soon ?

[davhibby]

What other managerial vacancies in Scotland would Gray get close to even getting an interview for? Shouldn’t be managing one of the biggest clubs in the country.

A completely unproven manager is literally the last thing we need at the moment.

You could easily say the exact same thing about Naismith and he’s done pretty well at Hearts. Or Don Cowie at County. There are pros and cons to Gray getting it but I think it’s harsh to deny him an interview considering what sort of head coach we’re looking for

[CentreForward]

Any chance of getting it sorted out soon ?

By beginning of June at the latest hopefully!

[mcohibs]

You could easily say the exact same thing about Naismith and he’s done pretty well at Hearts. Or Don Cowie at County. There are pros and cons to Gray getting it but I think it’s harsh to deny him an interview considering what sort of head coach we’re looking for

Fair point

[Victor]

Any chance of getting it sorted out soon ?

Monday 3rd June. Unless it’s a Bank holiday somewhere!

[ekhibee]

The last time I had a bet on managers it was Rogers for the Celtic job 1st time round, I got in quite early and got 12/1, Capellas looks interesting but not sure if he'd come to Scotland. If he indicated that he would I'd be straight in there asap.

[Keith_M]

So is it going to be Thorsten Fink, or is my 'mate' just winding me up?


:dunno:

[SeanWilson]

What other managerial vacancies in Scotland would Gray get close to even getting an interview for? Shouldn’t be managing one of the biggest clubs in the country.

A completely unproven manager is literally the last thing we need at the moment.

Nail. Head.

[SeanWilson]

You could easily say the exact same thing about Naismith and he’s done pretty well at Hearts. Or Don Cowie at County. There are pros and cons to Gray getting it but I think it’s harsh to deny him an interview considering what sort of head coach we’re looking for

You could also say Naismith is a shankland away from a failure too.

Appointing Gray is mediocre, same old, sentimental pish.

[JohnM1875]

So is it going to be Thorsten Fink, or is my 'mate' just winding me up?


:dunno:

Not according to EEN, no interest from us.

[Since452]

Whoever it is we need to get them in the door very soon. They have a huge job on their hands. For the life of me i don't know why we waited as long as we did after failing to get top six. The dillydallying with the statement etc was just wasting valuable time.

[Niffy]

A Gray type appointment now and same background running of the club could spell relagation. .

[Keith_M]

Not according to EEN, no interest from us.


Aw, that's a shame. :-(

He's never managed at a really big club but was pretty decent when he was at Austria Wien, especially the 9-0 win over Matersburg (RIP)

[flash]

Whoever it is we need to get them in the door very soon. They have a huge job on their hands. For the life of me i don't know why we waited as long as we did after failing to get top six. The dillydallying with the statement etc was just wasting valuable time.

He wasn't getting sacked until the Aberdeen game.

[Lago]

What other managerial vacancies in Scotland would Gray get close to even getting an interview for? Shouldn’t be managing one of the biggest clubs in the country.

A completely unproven manager is literally the last thing we need at the moment.
This is the best summation I've seen to date, says it all.

[andrew70]

You could also say Naismith is a shankland away from a failure too.

Appointing Gray is mediocre, same old, sentimental pish.

Yep.

Just trying to curry favour with the support. Thankfully most see beyond that.

[B.H.F.C]

A Gray type appointment now and same background running of the club could spell relagation. .

We’ve only just appointed a new Sporting Director. And we also have the BK involvement as well. So whatever happens, it’s pretty clear that things aren’t going to be running the same.

[matty_f]

I can see the for and against for SDG, and there is enough in the "for" column for me to be able to get behind the decision (if that's how we go), even if it's not my preference.

He's worked under some great and some awful coaches and managers in his career, he has the respect of everyone at the club and has established himself as a leader at the club over many years now.

My concerns are really restricted to whether or not he's literally qualified for the role - there's an accepted wisdom on here that he's only got the B Licence (he's not updated his LinkedIn beyond that) but I'm 99% sure that he's done more than that - I can see Marvin Bartley has "Pro licence candidate" on his LinkedIn and I think they were going through it together.

The lack of an emerging strong candidate is a bit of a concern - could just be we're keeping our cards close to our chest but I thought we might have seen more credible candidates being in the running by now.

[marinello59]

Is that you Ben?

:greengrin:top marks

[Donegal Hibby]

A Gray type appointment now and same background running of the club could spell relagation. .

Having appointed MM and a review with the help of the BK's hopefully the running of the club has changed somewhat from what it was .

Nobody knows how SDG would do for definite or an appointment like him though since he has stepped into the role in the 12 games he's won 5 , drawn 3 and lost 4 , two of which were Celtic in the cup final and Aston villa away which gives him just over a 40% win rate .

We will have some sort of clear out and we will sign players who will improve the squad also , with all this i don't think we will be anywhere near relegation next season if Gray was manager either imho .

[Onion]

Whoever it is we need to get them in the door very soon. They have a huge job on their hands. For the life of me i don't know why we waited as long as we did after failing to get top six. The dillydallying with the statement etc was just wasting valuable time.

Footie manager is unlike most other jobs. Invariably, they last 1-4 years and that's it. If successful, they move to another club. Fail and they get sacked (by mutual consent). IMO, Hibs should be right up front with anyone we appoint as manager that we will be constantly monitoring the market for a successor. The Board should maintain a short list of candidates (realistic and hopeful) so when the time comes for the current man to be fired or leave, we can move with haste and confidence. If any Hibs manager can't live with that, then they're too thin skinned for the job.

Don't understand why it always seems to be a shock and standing start for Hibs when a manager leaves. It doesn't need to be like that. Succession planning should be continuous process.

[Smartie]

I can see the for and against for SDG, and there is enough in the "for" column for me to be able to get behind the decision (if that's how we go), even if it's not my preference.

He's worked under some great and some awful coaches and managers in his career, he has the respect of everyone at the club and has established himself as a leader at the club over many years now.

My concerns are really restricted to whether or not he's literally qualified for the role - there's an accepted wisdom on here that he's only got the B Licence (he's not updated his LinkedIn beyond that) but I'm 99% sure that he's done more than that - I can see Marvin Bartley has "Pro licence candidate" on his LinkedIn and I think they were going through it together.

The lack of an emerging strong candidate is a bit of a concern - could just be we're keeping our cards close to our chest but I thought we might have seen more credible candidates being in the running by now.

This is pretty much exactly where I am... only I'm in favour of Gray getting it.

The reason I'm in favour is because the perfect candidate doesn't exist, we're at the mercy of picking from who is available right now and I can see arguments for and against all candidates.

There are points in Gray's negative column - absolutely no doubt about it - but some of his positives are fairly unique.

It sounds ridiculously short term but we're almost at the stage where we need to have a very strong start or all hell will break loose no matter who it is. There isn't a manager who will truly unify the support and I don't think there's anyone out there who will get patience beyond a very short sticky spell at the start.

Gray probably has the best chance of having the strong start that buys him time, gets folk on board with what is going on and then positive momentum can build from there.

Personally I think folk are still absolutely deluded about how attractive a job this is - reshaping a bloated and substandard squad, a requirement to win straight away in the league cup, expectations high because of supposed investment that may or may not translate into ability to buy players, a job that is rapidly turning into a graveyard for managerial careers. How many great coaches out there want associated with that?

[Onion]

What other managerial vacancies in Scotland would Gray get close to even getting an interview for? Shouldn’t be managing one of the biggest clubs in the country.

A completely unproven manager is literally the last thing we need at the moment.

Spot on. For so many reasons, SDG should be nowhere near the Hibs job. Fact that MSM is pushing the idea is reason enough to look elsewhere.

[ian cruise]

Footie manager is unlike most other jobs. Invariably, they last 1-4 years and that's it. If successful, they move to another club. Fail and they get sacked (by mutual consent). IMO, Hibs should be right up front with anyone we appoint as manager that we will be constantly monitoring the market for a successor. The Board should maintain a short list of candidates (realistic and hopeful) so when the time comes for the current man to be fired or leave, we can move with haste and confidence. If any Hibs manager can't live with that, then they're too thin skinned for the job.

Don't understand why it always seems to be a shock and standing start for Hibs when a manager leaves. It doesn't need to be like that. Succession planning should be continuous process.

I work for a pretty big global firm. We have succession plans in place for senior positions. No one is constantly looking over their shoulder thinking "they're out to get me", instead they're busy working on how they do the best job they can so they can move on to whatever they want whenever they want.

As you say, I'd hope anyone coming in as a manager would be thick skinned enough to know the club monitor what other managers are doing and they themselves are focused on being as successful as they can be, even if that involves a move to EPL or similar in future (let's be honest,managing Hibs is not the pinnacle of most managers ambitions).

[matty_f]

Footie manager is unlike most other jobs. Invariably, they last 1-4 years and that's it. If successful, they move to another club. Fail and they get sacked (by mutual consent). IMO, Hibs should be right up front with anyone we appoint as manager that we will be constantly monitoring the market for a successor. The Board should maintain a short list of candidates (realistic and hopeful) so when the time comes for the current man to be fired or leave, we can move with haste and confidence. If any Hibs manager can't live with that, then they're too thin skinned for the job.

Don't understand why it always seems to be a shock and standing start for Hibs when a manager leaves. It doesn't need to be like that. Succession planning should be continuous process.

Hopefully this is the sort of improvement that Mackay identifies as part of his job, and the net is cast using resources across the group for the potential successor.

[04Sauzee]

String rumours Alex Neil will be appointed manager at Birmingham City

[bingo70]

I can see the for and against for SDG, and there is enough in the "for" column for me to be able to get behind the decision (if that's how we go), even if it's not my preference.

He's worked under some great and some awful coaches and managers in his career, he has the respect of everyone at the club and has established himself as a leader at the club over many years now.

My concerns are really restricted to whether or not he's literally qualified for the role - there's an accepted wisdom on here that he's only got the B Licence (he's not updated his LinkedIn beyond that) but I'm 99% sure that he's done more than that - I can see Marvin Bartley has "Pro licence candidate" on his LinkedIn and I think they were going through it together.

The lack of an emerging strong candidate is a bit of a concern - could just be we're keeping our cards close to our chest but I thought we might have seen more credible candidates being in the running by now.

One of the main positives for SDG is he’s seen good and bad managers in his time but im not sure that really means that much.

It’s one thing being able to identify good and bad practices, it’s an entirely different skill set altogether to implement changes that are required. I think you deal with that kind of thing in your professional life but you must have come across countless people with great ideas based on good and bad management but weren’t actually the right people to make the changes?

I’m probably a bit like that myself in my line of work, I’m good at noticing when stuff is getting done badly, if I got the responsibility to fix those things they’d still be ***** 6 months later, even if I do think I’m actually alright at my day to day jobs (one of which surprisingly isn’t scouting Transfermarkt for obscure available managers).

[Unseen work]

One of the main positives for SDG is he’s seen good and bad managers in his time but im not sure that really means that much.

It’s one thing being able to identify good and bad practices, it’s an entirely different skill set altogether to implement changes that are required. I think you deal with that kind of thing in your professional life but you must have come across countless people with great ideas based on good and bad management but weren’t actually the right people to make the changes?

I’m probably a bit like that myself in my line of work, I’m good at noticing when stuff is getting done badly, if I got the responsibility to fix those things they’d still be ***** 6 months later, even if I do think I’m actually alright at my day to day jobs (one of which surprisingly isn’t scouting Transfermarkt for obscure available managers).

It’s definitely an interesting point about different lines of work etc.

For example in my line of work there are at time ‘Supervisors’ who get the position and come in with all these ideas that those working below them think ‘wtf’ or ‘that won’t work’ but the supervisor is adamant that’s the best way forward.

The supervisor then leaves and the next person gets the role who then applies a bit of common sense and logic to the decision making which improves performance and gets staff on side

I’ve been vocal about not wanting Gray, but I think he would fall into the latter which would be a good thing. I think he’d go back to basics in some ways and get players in that know the league and will get results.

[B.H.F.C]

It’s definitely an interesting point about different lines of work etc.

For example in my line of work there are at time ‘Supervisors’ who get the position and come in with all these ideas that those working below them think ‘wtf’ or ‘that won’t work’ but the supervisor is adamant that’s the best way forward.

The supervisor then leaves and the next person gets the role who then applies a bit of common sense and logic to the decision making which improves performance and gets staff on side

I’ve been vocal about not wanting Gray, but I think he would fall into the latter which would be a good thing. I think he’d go back to basics in some ways and get players in that know the league and will get results.

If Gray got the job I’m almost certain his main priority would be going back to basics defensively. He more or less said that after the Motherwell game. The last two have paid next to no attention to it and that’s what has ended up costing them their jobs. Whoever gets it, if they don’t that they’ll fail miserably as well. All comes back to us being a bit less snobby about who we sign and what they can do on the ball IMO. I think a Gray would be more interested in folk who can defend first and foremost.

[He's here!]

This is pretty much exactly where I am... only I'm in favour of Gray getting it.

The reason I'm in favour is because the perfect candidate doesn't exist, we're at the mercy of picking from who is available right now and I can see arguments for and against all candidates.

There are points in Gray's negative column - absolutely no doubt about it - but some of his positives are fairly unique.

It sounds ridiculously short term but we're almost at the stage where we need to have a very strong start or all hell will break loose no matter who it is. There isn't a manager who will truly unify the support and I don't think there's anyone out there who will get patience beyond a very short sticky spell at the start.

Gray probably has the best chance of having the strong start that buys him time, gets folk on board with what is going on and then positive momentum can build from there.

Personally I think folk are still absolutely deluded about how attractive a job this is - reshaping a bloated and substandard squad, a requirement to win straight away in the league cup, expectations high because of supposed investment that may or may not translate into ability to buy players, a job that is rapidly turning into a graveyard for managerial careers. How many great coaches out there want associated with that?

Not sure too many people remain deluded about how attractive a job it is. We've become akin to Hearts circa 2013 with our over-sized and mediocre squad and a reputation for rattling through managers at pace. They ended up with Gary Locke in charge.

[Since452]

I'm softening to the idea of Gray getting it although I still think it's a huge risk after the Montgomery and Maloney experiments failed. I'm also not too keen on a perennially failing squad having a "popular choice" or whatever has been reported. Our last three managers have come across as a bit too nicey, nicey. Can't help but feel some of these players could do with a rocket up the arse. Maybe Gray would do that. Who knows? He was a great captain and leader of the team. Would that transcend into the dugout as head coach? Again, who knows?

[Unseen work]

Rhys McCabe has signed an extension with Airdrie so won’t be him

[Sioux]

we're at the mercy of picking from who is available right now and I can see arguments for and against all candidates.

Who are those candidates you know about?

[Pedantic_Hibee]

Rhys McCabe has signed an extension with Airdrie so won’t be him

It won’t be Unai Emery either as he’s just signed a new five year deal at Villa.

[Donegal Hibby]

Rhys McCabe has signed an extension with Airdrie so won’t be him

I'd have been really surprised if he was even considered for it tbh , read he was getting linked with the Livvy job as there was talk of Martindale quitting though that's changed now too .
https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/articles/c4nnp223dy5o

[Paul1642]

I think it will be someone not yet mentioned or on the bookies odds list. Just like Monty, who came out of nowhere.

Not based on anything but a hunch.

[The Modfather]

One of the main positives for SDG is he’s seen good and bad managers in his time but im not sure that really means that much.

It’s one thing being able to identify good and bad practices, it’s an entirely different skill set altogether to implement changes that are required. I think you deal with that kind of thing in your professional life but you must have come across countless people with great ideas based on good and bad management but weren’t actually the right people to make the changes?

I’m probably a bit like that myself in my line of work, I’m good at noticing when stuff is getting done badly, if I got the responsibility to fix those things they’d still be ***** 6 months later, even if I do think I’m actually alright at my day to day jobs (one of which surprisingly isn’t scouting Transfermarkt for obscure available managers).

My concern with Gray is that he hasn’t really shown anything different tactically whenever he’s been in charge. It is unfair to expect too much in his cameos in charge, and you could maybe argue making us more organised at times is an element of tactics. However he appears to just continue with the same formations of the previous manager, albeit with more pragmatic/sensible team selections.

I’d have hoped to have seen signs of something different like the midfield playing higher, much higher tempo etc, the things that have been an issue for years. I wonder if he can see all the failings of previous managers, if he can why couldn’t he influence the fundamental problems, or if he’s simply fairly limited and his strengths amount to round pegs in round holes and motivating players.

[Smartie]

Who are those candidates you know about?

Everybody who has been rumoured and discussed on here.

[JohnM1875]

Not sure why, but with each passing day I’m less convinced about Gray being a good appointment.

I’ll absolutely back him 100% same as I would any manager. The task at hand with us just now is massive though.

[Unseen work]

It won’t be Unai Emery either as he’s just signed a new five year deal at Villa.

Cheers Geoff

[Lago]

It won’t be Unai Emery either as he’s just signed a new five year deal at Villa.
It won't be Martindale he's staying at Livingston

[matty_f]

One of the main positives for SDG is he’s seen good and bad managers in his time but im not sure that really means that much.

It’s one thing being able to identify good and bad practices, it’s an entirely different skill set altogether to implement changes that are required. I think you deal with that kind of thing in your professional life but you must have come across countless people with great ideas based on good and bad management but weren’t actually the right people to make the changes?

I’m probably a bit like that myself in my line of work, I’m good at noticing when stuff is getting done badly, if I got the responsibility to fix those things they’d still be ***** 6 months later, even if I do think I’m actually alright at my day to day jobs (one of which surprisingly isn’t scouting Transfermarkt for obscure available managers).

It's a good point, and it generally aligns to how open the person is to learning, how much they actually think about what they've seen, and having the self awareness to recognise what they do. It's a very effective way to learn, though.

[matty_f]

My concern with Gray is that he hasn’t really shown anything different tactically whenever he’s been in charge. It is unfair to expect too much in his cameos in charge, and you could maybe argue making us more organised at times is an element of tactics. However he appears to just continue with the same formations of the previous manager, albeit with more pragmatic/sensible team selections.

I’d have hoped to have seen signs of something different like the midfield playing higher, much higher tempo etc, the things that have been an issue for years. I wonder if he can see all the failings of previous managers, if he can why couldn’t he influence the fundamental problems, or if he’s simply fairly limited and his strengths amount to round pegs in round holes and motivating players.
I think that reflects a bit of common sense and pragmatism - he's usually stepped in at short notice with games coming up. Changing massively in those circumstances is asking for trouble but tweaking what the players know enough to make it effective shows a good thought process, imho.

[The Modfather]

I think that reflects a bit of common sense and pragmatism - he's usually stepped in at short notice with games coming up. Changing massively in those circumstances is asking for trouble but tweaking what the players know enough to make it effective shows a good thought process, imho.

I’m not advocating sweeping tactical changes, but take the Livi game as an example. It could have been a Montgomery/Johnson/Maloney team we were watching. A few like for like subs and it was the same plodding performance we’ve seen ever more where you can tell early doors what’s in store for the full 90 mins. No attempt to do anything different.

[Kaiser_Sauzee]

I’m not advocating sweeping tactical changes, but take the Livi game as an example. It could have been a Montgomery/Johnson/Maloney team we were watching. A few like for like subs and it was the same plodding performance we’ve seen ever more where you can tell early doors what’s in store for the full 90 mins. No attempt to do anything different.

I'm not sure what else he should have done on the final day of the season with a group of players that have been drilled all season to play that way.

[bingo70]

I'm not sure what else he should have done on the final day of the season with a group of players that have been drilled all season to play that way.

I agree, I don’t want SDG as manager but I think that criticism is a bit harsh.

I do think i was a bit disappointed by the lack of spark in the team. They went through the motions a bit, if they really wanted Gray to get the job, it should have been relatively easy to get them busting a gut for one last game.

Might be harsh questioning his motivational abilities based on one game but it is something that is bothering me a wee bit.

[joe breezy]

It won't be Martindale he's staying at Livingston

Damn


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[GreenGray]

This is pretty much exactly where I am... only I'm in favour of Gray getting it.

The reason I'm in favour is because the perfect candidate doesn't exist, we're at the mercy of picking from who is available right now and I can see arguments for and against all candidates.

There are points in Gray's negative column - absolutely no doubt about it - but some of his positives are fairly unique.

It sounds ridiculously short term but we're almost at the stage where we need to have a very strong start or all hell will break loose no matter who it is. There isn't a manager who will truly unify the support and I don't think there's anyone out there who will get patience beyond a very short sticky spell at the start.

Gray probably has the best chance of having the strong start that buys him time, gets folk on board with what is going on and then positive momentum can build from there.

Personally I think folk are still absolutely deluded about how attractive a job this is - reshaping a bloated and substandard squad, a requirement to win straight away in the league cup, expectations high because of supposed investment that may or may not translate into ability to buy players, a job that is rapidly turning into a graveyard for managerial careers. How many great coaches out there want associated with that?

This is a good point.

I actually think Gray would be the least risky appointment of anyone.

He’s already shown he’s up to it, he would be almost guaranteed to get both the fans and players on side.

Can we really afford to risk appointing another dud?

It might be slightly uninspiring but I think he’s what we need. Safe pair of hands who knows the league and club.


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[The Modfather]

I'm not sure what else he should have done on the final day of the season with a group of players that have been drilled all season to play that way.

I’m just talking about small things like Newell playing in and around Campbell high up the pitch. Not Triantis & Newell both as deep as the centre backs for long periods. Showing that he’s the man to get the best out of Vente. Or visibly telling the team to push up or up the tempo, that way it’s clear the players are the ones not following instructions rather than playing to design. It was his last game to audition for manager and was just more of the same.

I’m not judging him solely on that game which was a dead rubber. Similarly he didn’t do anything to indicate he knows where Maloney/Johnson/Montgommery went wrong.

[Percy Vere]

I agree, I don’t want SDG as manager but I think that criticism is a bit harsh.

I do think i was a bit disappointed by the lack of spark in the team. They went through the motions a bit, if they really wanted Gray to get the job, it should have been relatively easy to get them busting a gut for one last game.

Might be harsh questioning his motivational abilities based on one game but it is something that is bothering me a wee bit.

I agree.
SDG has been a first team coach throughout the last few seasons, Defence coach?
it might work but I fear a Sauzee Scenario where a club legend is brought down.
This isn't going to be an easy season even for a tried and tested coach, let alone someone in their first permanent head coach role. I'd sooner see him go off and cut his teeth in the Championship and see what comes further down the line.
all that said if it is Gray he's got 100% backing.

[Wull]

I have heard on here, people saying that David Gray was not involved in the defensive coaching side, does anybody know what his actual duties are / were at the club.

[K-Zazu]

If we are looking at someone like David Gray, then what about Scott Brown? More experience than Gray.

[bingo70]

If we are looking at someone like David Gray, then what about Scott Brown? More experience than Gray.

Yeah, I’d be happier with Brown than Gray. I’m not actually sure how Brown has done at Ayr though?

I’d heard he had masses of issues behind the scenes at Fleetwood that made it almost an impossible job so was very harshly sacked, I’m not sure how true that is though.

[WestCoastHibby]

If we are looking at someone like David Gray, then what about Scott Brown? More experience than Gray.

I’d say Scott Brown would be risky but hey risk and reward can be worth it.
Think of the winners mentality he has

[Wilson]

Yeah, I’d be happier with Brown than Gray. I’m not actually sure how Brown has done at Ayr though?

I’d heard he had masses of issues behind the scenes at Fleetwood that made it almost an impossible job so was very harshly sacked, I’m not sure how true that is though.

I wouldn't. If experience is the key then we could target someone more experienced again than Brown.

The attraction with Gray is that he has been in and around successful managers, the mixed results of Johnson, and failing managers. He'll have a knowledge of what works. Of who works. If you go with the relative inexperience then you use this knowledge. You take the fact that Gray always steps in and steadies the sinking ship and give him the chance to do more.

Brown isn't the answer.

Given we've already tried the 500 games in England route, and the championship in OZ route, I'm not sure who is the answer.

[04Sauzee]

Yeah, I’d be happier with Brown than Gray. I’m not actually sure how Brown has done at Ayr though?

I’d heard he had masses of issues behind the scenes at Fleetwood that made it almost an impossible job so was very harshly sacked, I’m not sure how true that is though.

He's won 7 and lost 7 with a 41.2% win rate. Very small sample size at Ayr. I have no idea who his wins and losses were against. Couldn't tell you what style of football he plays.

Edit ... Actually transfermrkt has it as 6 wins and 5 loses in 14 matches 1.5 points per game. 1.5 points per game over the season would have got you in the play offs.

[J-C]

I have heard on here, people saying that David Gray was not involved in the defensive coaching side, does anybody know what his actual duties are / were at the club.

It's been mentioned on here about 400 times that he was the set piece coach, free kicks, throw ins and attacking corners.

[Winston Ingram]

Appointing another untried rookie would be par for the course for this board of ours.

[04Sauzee]

I wonder since championship managers are being mentioned I'd Kris Doolan would be under consideration? Young with 2 seasons or so under his belt. Not sure what badges he has? Partick aways seem to be up the top end of the table.

I don't think he's a Hibs manager just thought I'd put his name out there.

[eastmainsmsh]

David Wagner would be a good fit would never happen tho

[He's here!]

I agree.
SDG has been a first team coach throughout the last few seasons, Defence coach?
it might work but I fear a Sauzee Scenario where a club legend is brought down.
This isn't going to be an easy season even for a tried and tested coach, let alone someone in their first permanent head coach role. I'd sooner see him go off and cut his teeth in the Championship and see what comes further down the line.
all that said if it is Gray he's got 100% backing.

Very different scenario to Sauzee who was (I think) still playing when he got the job and had no official coaching experience at all. Unlike Gray, he was, I think, lacking in awareness of how much travel/scouting etc the job entailed on top of coaching and picking a team. He was kind of swept into the role on a tide of popular support. Turned out to be a terrible move but he did maintain his record of never playing in a losing side against Hearts and his legendary status remains undiminished.

[Wilson]

David Wagner would be a good fit would never happen tho

Perennial underachiever. Would fit but not in a good way.

[Viva_Palmeiras]

It seems like we’re opting for the football (managerial appointment) equivalent of the chimpanzees writing Shakespeare.

[Paul1642]

I wouldn't. If experience is the key then we could target someone more experienced again than Brown.

The attraction with Gray is that he has been in and around successful managers, the mixed results of Johnson, and failing managers. He'll have a knowledge of what works. Of who works. If you go with the relative inexperience then you use this knowledge. You take the fact that Gray always steps in and steadies the sinking ship and give him the chance to do more.

Brown isn't the answer.

Given we've already tried the 500 games in England route, and the championship in OZ route, I'm not sure who is the answer.

If there was an exact science to it then it would be easy. Just because a manger with experience of 500 games in the English championship eventually failed doesn’t mean the next one would automatically fail, neither would a manager from the A league or a coach at a good international side.

Just like trying to mimic our previous successes like Mowbray, Lennon and Ross wouldn’t guarantee success.

I personally think that Ange Postecoglou is the best manger to have managed in the SPFL for a very long time yet a manger with a similar career path at the time he joined Celtic wouldn’t necessarily have us thinking we had found a gem. Likewise if we were signing a manger in the mould of 2017 Steve Clarke it would raise certain concerns.

The board haven’t given us much confidence in their ability to find the right man but there are some fresh faces involved in this decision and I’m still holding out hope that the BK might have someone in mind who falls just short of the standard needed for Bournemouth but would be exactly what we need.

Gray just doesn’t fill me with confidence although going back to my above points, it would still be a fresh start and there’s nothing stopping him from being a success. I just worry that his familiarity with the squad might be a hindrance rather than a help.

[ekhibee]

I’m not advocating sweeping tactical changes, but take the Livi game as an example. It could have been a Montgomery/Johnson/Maloney team we were watching. A few like for like subs and it was the same plodding performance we’ve seen ever more where you can tell early doors what’s in store for the full 90 mins. No attempt to do anything different.

I pretty much agree with all you say regarding this.

[ancient hibee]

Very different scenario to Sauzee who was (I think) still playing when he got the job and had no official coaching experience at all. Unlike Gray, he was, I think, lacking in awareness of how much travel/scouting etc the job entailed on top of coaching and picking a team. He was kind of swept into the role on a tide of popular support. Turned out to be a terrible move but he did maintain his record of never playing in a losing side against Hearts and his legendary status remains undiminished.

His biggest problem was that his best player-Sauzee- stopped playing.

[Iain G]

Appointing another untried rookie would be par for the course for this board of ours.

So David Gray then 😁

[cubehindthegoal]

His biggest problem was that his best player-Sauzee- stopped playing.

Exactly this.

[Unseen work]

Wonder if Gray would try a 352 having seen it a couple of times throughout his time at Hibs with pretty good success

Obita and Cadden as wing backs.
A striker to partner Vente may get the best out of him.

Solid formation in this league imo, especially if you have the attackers.

The only thing is instead of signing 1 decent centre half we would need 3 🤣

[Springbank]

I'm not sure what else he should have done on the final day of the season with a group of players that have been drilled all season to play that way.

Think about it.

It's your big audition.

You've got a squad that cost many multiples of your demoralised & already-relegated opponents

And we looked like losing 2-1

As auditions go, the Director would be saying "thank you, next"....

[degenerated]

Think about it.

It's your big audition.

You've got a squad that cost many multiples of your demoralised & already-relegated opponents

And we looked like losing 2-1

As auditions go, the Director would be saying "thank you, next"....

Does the game against Motherwell not count? What would the director have said there?

[matty_f]

Think about it.

It's your big audition.

You've got a squad that cost many multiples of your demoralised & already-relegated opponents

And we looked like losing 2-1

As auditions go, the Director would be saying "thank you, next"....

We didn't lose though, which is progress from the last manager who would routinely drop points from games we looked like winning.


I don't think anyone would read into that last game, a shan pitch on a hot day with a handful of players in the team who know they're not here next season who just have one game to navigate without injury to be in a good position to pick up a new club over the summer, at the end of a season that everyone wanted to see the back of.

[Hibees1973]

Just say Gray was a coach at Hibs and he hadn't scored the winning goal for us in the Scottish Cup Final. Would the sentimentalists out there still feel he has the qualifications and experience to be the manager/first team coach. Particularly as he has been a visible and key component in the last three failed coaching teams at the club.

[NC1875]

Just say Gray was a coach at Hibs and he hadn't scored the winning goal for us in the Scottish Cup Final. Would the sentimentalists out there still feel he has the qualifications and experience to be the manager/first team coach. Particularly as he has been a visible and key component in the last three failed coaching teams at the club.

No they wouldn’t. We are sentiment Fc, always pining for ex players, always wanting to keep existing players around forever. The same people will be hoping Gray gets the job and resigns Hanlon and Stevenson.

Haymaker might finally get his wish and get Griffiths back too.

[Callum_62]

No they wouldn’t. We are sentiment Fc, always pining for ex players, always wanting to keep existing players around forever. The same people will be hoping Gray gets the job and resigns Hanlon and Stevenson.

Haymaker might finally get his wish and get Griffiths back too.Gray did say "it's up to the next manager" regarding Paul

I wonder if he would offer him another year

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[Heisenberg]

Gray did say "it's up to the next manager" regarding Paul

I wonder if he would offer him another year

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I think he’d 100% keep Hanlon if he was open to staying.

[Broken Gnome]

People are overlooking the pretty obvious reason Gray is a legitimate candidate - he's been a Hibs caretaker umpteen times. Hibs would never have batted an eyelid at Barry Robson or Steven Naismith, but those clubs plumped for their caretakers/interims/coaches. If he's in the door already, he's obviously a consideration as much as he'd never been remotely in the running to be Hibs boss if in the same position elsewhere.

That's not a Hibs board issue or lack of ambition - that would happen at a whole host of clubs.

[easty]

People are overlooking the pretty obvious reason Gray is a legitimate candidate - he's been a Hibs caretaker umpteen times. Hibs would never have batted an eyelid at Barry Robson or Steven Naismith, but those clubs plumped for their caretakers/interims/coaches. If he's in the door already, he's obviously a consideration as much as he'd never been remotely in the running to be Hibs boss if in the same position elsewhere.

That's not a Hibs board issue or lack of ambition - that would happen at a whole host of clubs.

David Gray has every right to stick his name forward as an option. He’s been trusted to be caretaker, so he’s obviously thought of well at the club too.

However, rather than it being a lack of ambition if the board give him the job, I think it’s a lack of realisation of what’s needed. It’s not going well at Hibs. The last manager was a complete failure, and was a guy with fairly little management experience. He followed an absolute slaver who fans didn’t take to at all. This appointment isn’t the time for a guy with Grays managerial experience, and who doesn’t even have the coaching badges a Hibs manager should have.

The board need to realise how important this appointment is.

[Unseen work]

People are overlooking the pretty obvious reason Gray is a legitimate candidate - he's been a Hibs caretaker umpteen times. Hibs would never have batted an eyelid at Barry Robson or Steven Naismith, but those clubs plumped for their caretakers/interims/coaches. If he's in the door already, he's obviously a consideration as much as he'd never been remotely in the running to be Hibs boss if in the same position elsewhere.

That's not a Hibs board issue or lack of ambition - that would happen at a whole host of clubs.

Being a first team coach/ set piece coach for a couple of years under failure is not a valid reason to make him a legitimate candidate. How would you have felt a couple of years ago if Eddie May got the job?

People would have and did 100% bat eyelids when Naismith in particular was appointed with numerous hearts fans raging at the set up because he had no badges and other teams finding it hilarious. Despite that though Naismith had been manager of the B team for a couple of years prior to a spell as interim.

Robson only got the job because of his interim spell which was exceptional and made it impossible not to give him the job. He won 7 games in a row which got them 3rd and group stage football in Europe. Even at that some Aberdeen fans never wanted him.

If Gray had a prolonged period as interim where he had a spell similar to Barry Robson or even Peter Leven fans would be a lot more accepting. Gray has had it the majority of times for a week or 2 with varied results

Both Robson and Naismith were also a couple of years older than Gray when they got the job.

[Winston Ingram]

So David Gray then 😁

My point exactly

[Jones28]

Being a first team coach/ set piece coach for a couple of years under failure is not a valid reason to make him a legitimate candidate. How would you have felt a couple of years ago if Eddie May got the job?

People would have and did 100% bat eyelids when Naismith in particular was appointed with numerous hearts fans raging at the set up because he had no badges and other teams finding it hilarious. Despite that though Naismith had been manager of the B team for a couple of years prior to a spell as interim.

Robson only got the job because of his interim spell which was exceptional and made it impossible not to give him the job. He won 7 games in a row which got them 3rd and group stage football in Europe. Even at that some Aberdeen fans never wanted him.

If Gray had a prolonged period as interim where he had a spell similar to Barry Robson or even Peter Leven fans would be a lot more accepting. Gray has had it the majority of times for a week or 2 with varied results

Both Robson and Naismith were also a couple of years older than Gray when they got the job.

Doesn't that point just go to show that some will never be happy?

[Broken Gnome]

David Gray has every right to stick his name forward as an option. He’s been trusted to be caretaker, so he’s obviously thought of well at the club too.

However, rather than it being a lack of ambition if the board give him the job, I think it’s a lack of realisation of what’s needed. It’s not going well at Hibs. The last manager was a complete failure, and was a guy with fairly little management experience. He followed an absolute slaver who fans didn’t take to at all. This appointment isn’t the time for a guy with Grays managerial experience, and who doesn’t even have the coaching badges a Hibs manager should have.

The board need to realise how important this appointment is.

I do agree, and I'd be pretty surprised if at this point in time - with Mackay, the scale of the task required and the new financial influence - if Gray ended up being the stand out candidate.

Just don't think there's anything actually wrong with having an internal candidate as a serious option. Beyond that, they need to be good enough and not just the cheap and simple choice - and who really knows bar the board as to whether that's the case.

[Jones28]

Just say Gray was a coach at Hibs and he hadn't scored the winning goal for us in the Scottish Cup Final. Would the sentimentalists out there still feel he has the qualifications and experience to be the manager/first team coach. Particularly as he has been a visible and key component in the last three failed coaching teams at the club.


Visible, perhaps. Responsible for the tactics that saw us sack three managers? No.

[Donegal Hibby]

No they wouldn’t. We are sentiment Fc, always pining for ex players, always wanting to keep existing players around forever. The same people will be hoping Gray gets the job and resigns Hanlon and Stevenson.

Haymaker might finally get his wish and get Griffiths back too.

That's another assumption that's not true , I didn't want Lennon , Murray , Thomson or Brown back . Think it's probably time both Hanlon and Lewy moved on sadly. ( Though Hanlon could still be useful to have imo )

And Gray has experience of Scottish football , knows the club better than most after spending 10 years or so at it with 3 as a coach , were he's had to step in 4 times and done well in difficult circumstances.

Nobody knows who's getting the Hibs job yet though Gray has earned the right to at least have an interview for the job seeing he wants it . If he gets it , it's because he's deemed the best for the job.

I don't think we are sentiment FC , more like Moaners FC because truth be told there will always be a small minority moaning about whoever gets the job .

[NC1875]

That's another assumption that's not true , I didn't want Lennon , Murray , Thomson or Brown back . Think it's probably time both Hanlon and Lewy moved on sadly. ( Though Hanlon could still be useful to have imo )

And Gray has experience of Scottish football , knows the club better than most after spending 10 years or so at it with 3 as a coach , were he's had to step in 4 times and done well in difficult circumstances.

Nobody knows who's getting the Hibs job yet thoughj Gray has earned the right to at least have an interview for the job seeing he wants it . If he gets it , it's because he's deemed the best for the job.

I don't think we are sentiment FC , more like Moaners FC because truth be told there will always be a small minority moaning about whoever gets the job .

If Gray is deemed best man for the job, Then we’re up **** creek without a paddle.

[Unseen work]

Doesn't that point just go to show that some will never be happy?

It does, but that’s probably because they live in Aberdeen 🤣

[Mcbizz1998]

That's another assumption that's not true , I didn't want Lennon , Murray , Thomson or Brown back . Think it's probably time both Hanlon and Lewy moved on sadly. ( Though Hanlon could still be useful to have imo )

And Gray has experience of Scottish football , knows the club better than most after spending 10 years or so at it with 3 as a coach , were he's had to step in 4 times and done well in difficult circumstances.

Nobody knows who's getting the Hibs job yet though Gray has earned the right to at least have an interview for the job seeing he wants it . If he gets it , it's because he's deemed the best for the job.

I don't think we are sentiment FC , more like Moaners FC because truth be told there will always be a small minority moaning about whoever gets the job .

Good post, I was going to say similar. I wanted Stevenson and (particularly) Hanlon gone a long time ago. I also have no interest whatsoever in seeing be likes of Brown or Thomson anywhere near our club again. David Gray has applied it seems and if our new sporting director deems him to be the best candidate then he will get the job. That will be good enough for me and I will be more excited about getting behind SDG next season than some random from the English 3rd division or some tinpot league like Australia.

[Donegal Hibby]

If Gray is deemed best man for the job, Then we’re up **** creek without a paddle.

You don't know that , because none of us know . It's like me saying he's going to great . I don't know that either and if I said it , it would be me completely guessing on something which is exactly what your doing here too . Nobody knows and we just have to trust that they pick the right one out of however the candidates are . If it's Gray , so be it and let's get behind him and give him a chance.

[GreenCastle]

I was under the impression you need a UEFA A to manage in the Premier League ?

Gray has his UEFA B ? Takes about 1 year to complete UEFA A.

That could be a key issue to him getting the job - unless the league allow him to take charge if he starts the course - but time is an issue.

[Mcbizz1998]

I was under the impression you need a UEFA A to manage in the Premier League ?

Gray has his UEFA B ? Takes about 1 year to complete UEFA A.

That could be a key issue to him getting the job - unless the league allow him to take charge if he starts the course - but time is an issue.

What did Naismith have then? He wasn't ale to manage in Europe but could in Scotland? Based on that I don't think it's an issue.

[Forza Fred]

Doesn’t matter who we appoint.

I am firmly of the belief that appointing ANY coach is a bit of a hit or miss thing.

Recruitment will ultimately decide whether we sack the new coach in a year or so.

Just wish they’d get on with it.

Not real bothered who gets it.

[CapitalGreen]

What did Naismith have then? He wasn't ale to manage in Europe but could in Scotland? Based on that I don't think it's an issue.

Naismith has his A license and is doing his pro license this summer.

[GreenCastle]

What did Naismith have then? He wasn't ale to manage in Europe but could in Scotland? Based on that I don't think it's an issue.

He has UEFA A.

The pro licence is what you need to play in Europe - but you can get exceptions like Naismith though as he hasn’t finished it.

You definitely need some qualifications to manage in Scottish Premier league - had a google search but couldn’t see anything though.

[Mcbizz1998]

He has UEFA A.

The pro licence is what you need to play in Europe - but you can get exceptions like Naismith got as he hasn’t finished it.

You definitely need some qualifications to manage in Scottish Premier league - had a google search but couldn’t see anything though.

Ah right, makes sense. cheers.

[Brightside]

I was under the impression you need a UEFA A to manage in the Premier League ?

Gray has his UEFA B ? Takes about 1 year to complete UEFA A.

That could be a key issue to him getting the job - unless the league allow him to take charge if he starts the course - but time is an issue.

Gray is working on his A I believe. Shouldn't be an issue until we get to Europe the following year. :greengrin

[NorthNorfolkHFC]

I think he's on his periods.

What, all of them at once?


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[Unseen work]

Doesn’t matter who we appoint.

I am firmly of the belief that appointing ANY coach is a bit of a hit or miss thing.

Recruitment will ultimately decide whether we sack the new coach in a year or so.

Just wish they’d get on with it.

Not real bothered who gets it.

Spot on re the recruitment

[GreenCastle]

Spot on re the recruitment

100%

Strong dressing room characters and leaders and the team will pretty much run itself.

Young inexperienced loans and weak mentality and we would continue to struggle.

We all know the exact type of players we need - question is do those who get paid ££ to recruit for Hibs know this or make same mistakes again.

[Donegal Hibby]

Doesn’t matter who we appoint.

I am firmly of the belief that appointing ANY coach is a bit of a hit or miss thing.

Recruitment will ultimately decide whether we sack the new coach in a year or so.

Just wish they’d get on with it.

Not real bothered who gets it.

Totally agree any coach we appoint is a bit of a hit or a miss .

Recruitment is key in how any manager does .

Would be nice to get one in though that we could see some ( even if small ) improvement that we could maybe stick with longer than a year or under .

All this upheaval be it managers or squad changes isn't getting us anywhere fast .

[worcesterhibby]

100%

Strong dressing room characters and leaders and the team will pretty much run itself.

Young inexperienced loans and weak mentality and we would continue to struggle.

We all know the exact type of players we need - question is do those who get paid ££ to recruit for Hibs know this or make same mistakes again.

The crazy thing is that I totally get why they want to bring in exciting young raw talent and try to improve them and sell them on. But to do that you need there to be experienced, strong-minded, wily, hardened professionals in the side, mentoring them, protecting them and demanding more from them.

Hanlon, Stevenson, Cadden, Newell... all good pros.. but all nice guys.. we need a bit of nasty for a change.

Having said that, a decent manager would have got our squad into 5th place. If lee Johnston could do it, then anyone with a bit of knoweldge should have.

[Since452]

The lack of experience is the obvious elephant in the room regarding Gray. Recent history (post cup win) kind of backs that up.

Maloney - Highly regarded coach with zero management experience - Disaster.
Johnson - Vastly experienced manager with over 500 games under his belt at a good level - Some good moments some bad. On the whole pretty underwhelming.
Montgomery - Inexperienced manager with decent success in his first role in a foreign league - Complete disaster.

Before that we had Ross and Lennon and who finished 3rd and 4th respectively with multiple Hampden trips between them who then both went on chronic bad runs.

Heckingbottom who came in, salvaged top 6 out of nowhere winning a couple of manager of the month awards and beat Hearts at Tynecastle then had his own chronic bad run the very next season.

You could probably say the guys that have done best have had more experience but ultimately they have all ended badly. All of them could point to mitigating circumstances for their departures although some are far more credible than others.

[JohnM1875]

The lack of experience is the obvious elephant in the room regarding Gray. Recent history (post cup win) kind of backs that up.

Maloney - Highly regarded coach with zero management experience - Disaster.
Johnson - Vastly experienced manager with over 500 games under his belt at a good level - Some good moments some bad. On the whole pretty underwhelming.
Montgomery - Inexperienced manager with decent success in his first role in a foreign league - Complete disaster.

Before that we had Ross and Lennon and who finished 3rd and 4th respectively with multiple Hampden trips between them who then both went on chronic bad runs.

Heckingbottom who came in, salvaged top 6 out of nowhere winning a couple of manager of the month awards and beat Hearts at Tynecastle then had his own chronic bad run the very next season.

You could probably say the guys that have done best have had more experience but ultimately they have all ended badly. All of them could point to mitigating circumstances for their departures although some are far more credible than others.

Fair points. Or maybe, as fans/club we need to get used to a manager having a bad run in form? We’re not the only team this happens to and we should give folk a chance to turn it round.

[eastmainsmsh]

Love SDG but I have concerns if the current board are going for cheap option and the current Squad gets clean slate and back on the merry-go-round

[worcesterhibby]

Love SDG but I have concerns if the current board are going for cheap option and the current Squad gets clean slate and back on the merry-go-round

I'm not one of the people who think SDG would be the best choice, however, surely he would be the last person to give the current squad a "clean slate" as he has seen exactly what they are capable of under several managers. I think MM is smart enough and has a good enough knowledge of Scottish football to know who we want to keep and who we want to move on (If we can).

[Donegal Hibby]

Fair points. Or maybe, as fans/club we need to get used to a manager having a bad run in form? We’re not the only team this happens to and we should give folk a chance to turn it round.

Another fair point.

[GreenCastle]

I'm not one of the people who think SDG would be the best choice, however, surely he would be the last person to give the current squad a "clean slate" as he has seen exactly what they are capable of under several managers. I think MM is smart enough and has a good enough knowledge of Scottish football to know who we want to keep and who we want to move on (If we can).

Mad to think MM was sacked in November for being 11th in league with a lower level team and he’s in charge of deciding our next manager.

[Donegal Hibby]

Love SDG but I have concerns if the current board are going for cheap option and the current Squad gets clean slate and back on the merry-go-round

I don't know who the other candidates for the Hibs job are , don't think any of us do .Though surely if MM and the Hibs board deem Gray ticks more boxes than the others , he then doesn't become the cheap option but rather the best , no ? .

[easty]

I don't know who the other candidates for the Hibs job are , don't think any of us do .Though surely if MM and the Hibs board deem Gray ticks more boxes than the others , he then doesn't become the cheap option but rather the best , no ? .

Not necessarily no.

[ancient hibee]

Mad to think MM was sacked in November for being 11th in league with a lower level team and he’s in charge of deciding our next manager.
Meanwhile the current coach there is to be appointed manager for finishing 11th in the league.

[Donegal Hibby]

Not necessarily no.

So if he ticks more boxes than the other candidates you still don't think so?

[easty]

So if he ticks more boxes than the other candidates you still don't think so?

Not if the people ticking the boxes are ticking those boxes based on cost of candidate as well as capability.

[GreenPJ]

Not if the people ticking the boxes are ticking those boxes based on cost of candidate as well as capability.

Cost has to come into it somewhere. It can't be a parameter that is completely ignored but you would assume that cost (whether that be direct compensation costs or backroom structure/headcount) had been part of the initial triage of candidates to rule them in or out.

[greenpaper55]

I don’t think it matters who gets the job as i think the main reason we are so bad is we have a squad apart from one or two who are mediocre at best. We simply have to invest in a better quality of player to be best of the rest , i doubt even Pep could get a tune out of the gash we have at the moment and we are all kidding ourselves if we think otherwise.

[easty]

Cost has to come into it somewhere. It can't be a parameter that is completely ignored but you would assume that cost (whether that be direct compensation costs or backroom structure/headcount) had been part of the initial triage of candidates to rule them in or out.

Absolutely, but ticking a box for a candidate based on them being more financially viable can cost more in the long run.

[Donegal Hibby]

Not if the people ticking the boxes are ticking those boxes based on cost of candidate as well as capability.

I think cost of something comes into every situation though I'd presume the other candidates are all affordable for us , otherwise it would be pointless even interviewing them .

I'd like to think that with our recent managerial history that the candidates credentials would be at the top of the list on our agenda .

Which is why I think if Gray did get it , it's because he's the best candidate for it and not necessarily just a cheap option instead .

[GreenGray]

A lot of people making the point that if Gray didn't have the history he does with the club he wouldn't even be considered.

But is context not important? Often the best appointment on paper isn't always going to turn out successful.

Some of our best managers in recent years (there hasn't been many) weren't the most experienced and - at the time - people disagreed with.

[blackpoolhibs]

I don't know who the other candidates for the Hibs job are , don't think any of us do .Though surely if MM and the Hibs board deem Gray ticks more boxes than the others , he then doesn't become the cheap option but rather the best , no ? .
Have you seen the mess this board have us in, i wouldnt trust them to be able to light a fart, nevermind appoint a good football manager.

[GreenCastle]

Meanwhile the current coach there is to be appointed manager for finishing 11th in the league.

But he did beat Hibs, Hearts and Rangers plus a hammering in playoffs.

Last Hibs manager to beat Hearts and Rangers ?

[easty]

I think cost of something comes into every situation though I'd presume the other candidates are all affordable for us , otherwise it would be pointless even interviewing them .

I'd like to think that with our recent managerial history that the candidates credentials would be at the top of the list on our agenda .

Which is why I think if Gray did get it , it's because he's the best candidate for it and not necessarily just a cheap option instead .

If we're putting candidates credentials at the top of the list on our agenda, then SDG shouldn't even be on the list :dunno:

[easty]

But he did beat Hibs, Hearts and Rangers plus a hammering in playoffs.

Last Hibs manager to beat Hearts and Rangers ?

Jack Ross?

[Smartie]

A lot of people making the point that if Gray didn't have the history he does with the club he wouldn't even be considered.

But is context not important? Often the best appointment on paper isn't always going to turn out successful.

Some of our best managers in recent years (there hasn't been many) weren't the most experienced and - at the time - people disagreed with.

Absolutely.

It's like saying about other managers, if you remove the ability and success they've had, what is left?

It's part of the package with Gray, as is the fact that he's only ever been a caretaker boss. You can't cherry pick bits and dismiss other bits to make your point, you have to consider the full package, including acknowledging that candidates you maybe don't fancy actually have stuff going in their favour.

[Mainstandman]

The lack of experience is the obvious elephant in the room regarding Gray. Recent history (post cup win) kind of backs that up.

Maloney - Highly regarded coach with zero management experience - Disaster.
Johnson - Vastly experienced manager with over 500 games under his belt at a good level - Some good moments some bad. On the whole pretty underwhelming.
Montgomery - Inexperienced manager with decent success in his first role in a foreign league - Complete disaster.

Before that we had Ross and Lennon and who finished 3rd and 4th respectively with multiple Hampden trips between them who then both went on chronic bad runs.

Heckingbottom who came in, salvaged top 6 out of nowhere winning a couple of manager of the month awards and beat Hearts at Tynecastle then had his own chronic bad run the very next season.

You could probably say the guys that have done best have had more experience but ultimately they have all ended badly. All of them could point to mitigating circumstances for their departures although some are far more credible than others.


The weird thing about Johnson was he performed exactly as you would expect. He's always talked such a good game that you thought he would do more but his performance was entirely predictable. Our managerial appointments match our signing policy, possible potential. Our rivals have recruited more solid professionals on and off the pitch and do better.

[Donegal Hibby]

Have you seen the mess this board have us in, i wouldnt trust them to be able to light a fart, nevermind appoint a good football manager.

I'm hoping with Mackay in charge of leading the search for the next manager and McDermott now possibly more focused on the recruitment of players things might improve on both fronts , both have a lot of experience in football .

Can't be much worse from what it was in the past surely?.

[The_Exile]

Think I'm at the point where I just don't want another rookie manager. Selfishly, I don't want SDG's name to be associated with another failed 'project' on the managerial side of things here. I loved Mixu when he was a player here and I remember towards the end of his time as manager just feeling gutted for him and the fact he had essentially failed and wishing he'd never been the manager.

I'm not a fan of former players managing teams they used to play for full stop, I don't like the natural dynamic of sentimentality that comes with it as the job should be ruthless, and I feel you can only really do that by having no prior connection to the club when you come in. Nobody should be on a hiding to nothing and I don't think managers do themselves any favours in these situations. Strange way to look at it I know but it's what I believe.

[Donegal Hibby]

If we're putting candidates credentials at the top of the list on our agenda, then SDG shouldn't even be on the list :dunno:

Knowing the club , league , experiences of highs and lows at us , well respected by the players and staff . Four times as interim manager were we've been struggling , yet having a 40.67% win rate . There's a few things which almost certainly indicate why he should be on it too . Whoever gets it I think it will be for that they are seen as the the best option and not the cheapest.

[Hibees1973]

Mad to think MM was sacked in November for being 11th in league with a lower level team and he’s in charge of deciding our next manager.

It's not mad.

When you look at the performances of the whole for the last three years and some of the decisions made on players and managers, appointing MacKay totally makes sense for those in charge at Hibs.

[JimBHibees]

It's not mad.

When you look at the performances of the whole for the last three years and some of the decisions made on players and managers, appointing MacKay totally makes sense for those in charge at Hibs.

Agree a decent experienced appointment 😊

[Hibees1973]

Jack Ross?

Correct answer and one some won't like on here.

It's gone downhill ever since Ross got punted.

[bingo70]

Correct answer and one some won't like on here.

It's gone downhill ever since Ross got punted.

Interesting, you’d think his name would be mentioned more with that being the case 🤔

[tonyrougier123]

Correct answer and one some won't like on here.

It's gone downhill ever since Ross got punted.

Definitely dropped the ball by not signing enough quality after finishing 3rd. Should’ve backed the man,and we’d have been comfortably 3rd again I think.defence was overdue an overhaul.

[tonyrougier123]

I’d like us to look at Nigel clough 🤔

[mcfly]

I’m quite happy if David gray gets the job. It’s worked ok at hearts having a rookie manager.

The key is getting defenders who can defend. Creative midfielders and strikers who score goals.

You could have sir Alex Ferguson in charge but if you have defenders who make the same mistakes every game you will concede goals regardless who is in charge.

Recruitment of players is the biggest issue we have. They’re just not good enough..

However I agree hibs have to get a move on. As always it seems reactive to get rid of a manager without a proper plan moving the club forward.

[cameronw-hfc]

I’d like us to look at Nigel clough 🤔

Probably the scariest suggestion yet. That would be atrocious lol

[blackpoolhibs]

Correct answer and one some won't like on here.

It's gone downhill ever since Ross got punted.

He was the first manager who had the privilege of Ian Gordon buying players for him.

How lucky he must have felt.:rolleyes:

[Gatecrasher]

I think we over think our managerial appointments to an extent, we try to be imagianitive or go for options outwith the more obvious.

As the ones I think we should go for are out of the running, I wouldn't mind giving SDG an opportunity if he wants it. I think he's shown he can organise a team and motivate. We've tried experieced and younger managers recently and none have worked out.

[Since452]

Correct answer and one some won't like on here.

It's gone downhill ever since Ross got punted.

I'd take him back in a second. The backing (or lack of it) and the timing of his sacking were a joke.

[Saint Hibee]

I'd take him back in a second. The backing (or lack of it) and the timing of his sacking were a joke.

Sorry, but he was truly awful. He was responsible for some of the worst, most insipid and spineless Hibs performances I’ve ever seen.

[Since452]

Sorry, but he was truly awful. He was responsible for some of the worst, most insipid and spineless Hibs performances I’ve ever seen.

I really rated him. Opinions eh!

[CallumLaidlaw]

Sorry, but he was truly awful. He was responsible for some of the worst, most insipid and spineless Hibs performances I’ve ever seen.

Truly awful?

[emoji23][emoji23]


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[Since452]

Truly awful?

[emoji23][emoji23]


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I'm sure his top league win percentage is one of the best in our history. Post Turnbull anyway.

[Paul1642]

A lot of people making the point that if Gray didn't have the history he does with the club he wouldn't even be considered.

But is context not important? Often the best appointment on paper isn't always going to turn out successful.

Some of our best managers in recent years (there hasn't been many) weren't the most experienced and - at the time - people disagreed with.

Who are the less experienced mangers in recent years that have been our best?

Lennon had won domestic trophy’s and managed in the champions league.
Jack Ross had 3 jobs before us including Sunderland.

Stubbs is a hero for that day in 2016 but if that result went the other way his legacy would have been 2 failed attempts to get out of the championship.

Mowbray and Collins are the next two going further back but that was going on 20 years ago and benefited from the emergence of the golden generation.

[GreenGray]

Who are the less experienced mangers in recent years that have been our best?

Lennon had won domestic trophy’s and managed in the champions league.
Jack Ross had 3 jobs before us including Sunderland.

Stubbs is a hero for that day in 2016 but if that result went the other way his legacy would have been 2 failed attempts to get out of the championship.

Mowbray and Collins are the next two going further back but that was going on 20 years ago and benefited from the emergence of the golden generation.

I was referring to Stubbs and Mowbray to be fair.

What it does show is that any “successful” manager has had Scottish football experience.

I understand that people think Gray is a risk but I think he’s less of a risk than a Thomas Fink type for example.


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[California-Hibs]

Honestly the more I think of it, I really really hope we don't appointment David Gray. It just isn't the right time for him and his level of experience, and more so I don't think it would be healthy appointing someone the players are comfortable with, not to mention the fact if he wasn't a massive Hibs legend because of the Scottish Cup Final, he wouldn't even remotely be considered for the role.
I don't want another Sauzee situation, especially for someone we hold to possibly the highest ever regard for many..

[Lago]

Correct answer and one some won't like on here.

It's gone downhill ever since Ross got punted.
Should never have been sacked.
And I'm becoming bored stiff with guess the next Hibs manager, reality show.

[Hibees1973]

Should never have been sacked.
And I'm becoming bored stiff with guess the next Hibs manager, reality show.

And with Ian Gordon either being appointed by his dad or appointing himself as Head of Recruitment, was at the root of all our problems (in the footballing dept) for the last 3-4 years.

Nepotism at its worst.

[Iain G]

And with Ian Gordon either being appointed by his dad or appointing himself as Head of Recruitment, was at the root of all our problems (in the footballing dept) for the last 3-4 years.

Nepotism at its worst.

Is he only responsible for the bad signings? Just asking for a friend...

[Paul1642]

An interesting case study is Kieran McKenna. An unremarkable playing career stopped very short due to injury. Youth team coach at spurs then Man United, before eventually becoming a first team coach and an assistant manger, to managers that got sacked.

I’d imagine Ipswich fans weren’t massively excited at the appointment yet just a few years later he’s got them back in the Premiership and himself in contention for some of Europe’s biggest jobs.

It goes to show that managerial experience isn’t necessarily everything if the talent and other experience is right.

This isn’t an appoint Gray argument as he’s got much less coaching experience and at a lower level, however I wouldn’t be against a established assistant manger from a club higher than ourselves such as John Kennedy.

[H18 SFR]

An interesting case study is Kieran McKenna. An unremarkable playing career stopped very short due to injury. Youth team coach at spurs then Man United, before eventually becoming a first team coach and an assistant manger, to managers that got sacked.

I’d imagine Ipswich fans weren’t massively excited at the appointment yet just a few years later he’s got them back in the Premiership and himself in contention for some of Europe’s biggest jobs.

It goes to show that managerial experience isn’t necessarily everything if the talent and other experience is right.

This isn’t an appoint Gray argument as he’s got much less coaching experience and at a lower level, however I wouldn’t be against a established assistant manger from a club higher than ourselves such as John Kennedy.

As I read your point I was saying to myself, “yeah, but Gray hasn’t got anywhere are near as much coaching experience” and then you dropped in the John Kennedy reference - which I totally agree with. Someone like that would be a huge yes for me.

[Hibees1973]

Is he only responsible for the bad signings? Just asking for a friend...

The evidence is all in front of you that there has been a whole lot more bad than good.

[Just_Jimmy]

An interesting case study is Kieran McKenna. An unremarkable playing career stopped very short due to injury. Youth team coach at spurs then Man United, before eventually becoming a first team coach and an assistant manger, to managers that got sacked.

I’d imagine Ipswich fans weren’t massively excited at the appointment yet just a few years later he’s got them back in the Premiership and himself in contention for some of Europe’s biggest jobs.

It goes to show that managerial experience isn’t necessarily everything if the talent and other experience is right.

This isn’t an appoint Gray argument as he’s got much less coaching experience and at a lower level, however I wouldn’t be against a established assistant manger from a club higher than ourselves such as John Kennedy.I highlight mckenna as a case study much earlier in the thread.

There's loads of good coaches out there, we just have to find one that works for us


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[Iain G]

The evidence is all in front of you that there has been a whole lot more bad than good.

But he takes some responsibility for all signings or are we being selective again? Like Monty and LJ only signed the **** ones?

[MWHIBBIES]

Sorry, but he was truly awful. He was responsible for some of the worst, most insipid and spineless Hibs performances I’ve ever seen.

:faf:

Stop it.

[Stonewall]

Correct answer and one some won't like on here.

It's gone downhill ever since Ross got punted.

and/or Mathie got scapegoated.

[ChuckNor]

Find our fan base hilarious. Some of the reasons not for going with Gray are insane. When it comes to Hibs he is the most experienced coach available - he has been here for years and knows the players strengths and limitations. If you think he won't be harsh with these players then you don't know the man - he is incredibly serious about success.

[raeburnhibs]

Find our fan base hilarious. Some of the reasons not for going with Gray are insane. When it comes to Hibs he is the most experienced coach available - he has been here for years and knows the players strengths and limitations. If you think he won't be harsh with these players then you don't know the man - he is incredibly serious about success.

and some are extremely logical, like he has Caretaker Managed only 12 games! He wouldn't get near a like for like position elsewhere and we shouldn't appoint either (and I highly doubt we will)

[erin go bragh]

Seen this posted on twitter by Hibs central

Interview process to take place this week & next, David Gray willl be sounded out first. Believe there is a shortlist of 4 candidates (Gray obviously being one) - no idea on others. Hibs hoping for a swift appt, but know they need to get this right. MM has (unofficially) started.

[04Sauzee]

Seen this posted on twitter by Hibs central

Interview process to take place this week & next, David Gray willl be sounded out first. Believe there is a shortlist of 4 candidates (Gray obviously being one) - no idea on others. Hibs hoping for a swift appt, but know they need to get this right. MM has (unofficially) started.

I'm guessing this must be on the PM board somewhere If he's posted that.

[Donegal Hibby]

and some are extremely logical, like he has Caretaker Managed only 12 games! He wouldn't get near a like for like position elsewhere and we shouldn't appoint either (and I highly doubt we will)

Lots of other managers have though and done well / some not so well . Some with even less knowledge of the club/ league too . I'm not saying he should get it though he's definitely worth considering , think it would be foolish not too .

[bingo70]

I'm guessing this must be on the PM board somewhere If he's posted that.

It’s not but it’s fairly easy to see it’s an educated guess.

I suspect they are correct but that doesn’t mean they’ve got any inside info.

[TrinityHFC]

and some are extremely logical, like he has Caretaker Managed only 12 games! He wouldn't get near a like for like position elsewhere and we shouldn't appoint either (and I highly doubt we will)

It isn’t really relevant what he’d get elsewhere. He has a status and knowledge here that would be particularly beneficial for this role.

Anyway, like some others I’ve given up being up or down either way. There’s just no way of knowing what appointment is going to work. The most experienced managers have been amongst our worst and inexperienced managers have probably been most successful and played the best style of football.

[raeburnhibs]

It isn’t really relevant what he’d get elsewhere. He has a status and knowledge here that would be particularly beneficial for this role.

Anyway, like some others I’ve given up being up or down either way. There’s just no way of knowing what appointment is going to work. The most experienced managers have been amongst our worst and inexperienced managers have probably been most successful and played the best style of football.

Both valid points, however, I think you could alternatively argue that he is too close to everything (and has been for a long time) and that someone with zero Hibs history is the way to go. Agree it does seem to be a particularly inexact science, albeit MM's description of the candidate qualities seemed particularly clear headed and logical

[Rick Rude]

and/or Mathie got scapegoated.

Wasn't it Jack Ross who demanded Mathie got sacked?