Driving Pet Peeves

[danhibees1875]

Traffic with no identifiable cause.

Trying to get out of Criagleith car park yesterday afternoon took just shy of an hour. Admittedly I started at homebase at the other side of the park.

I opted to just get into the queue and slowly work my way round as the traffic dictated but there were so many cars three-point turning and going up the lanes towards a different queue of traffic and having to edge back in. There were also a number who decided just to fly down the wrong side of the road as far as possible before cutting up to the other traffic to skip the queue which at one point ended with them being stuck face to face with oncoming traffic and unable to move anywhere causing more queues going the opposite way.

Eventually got to the lights just up from the Sainsbury's exit and traffic just vanished. I don't remember ever having so much traffic trouble at previous visits there so not sure it was just due to the lights causing problems.

And the negatives of karma when you let someone into the queue ahead of you and they decide to also be nice and let someone in front of them which just holds me up more. :greengrin

[O'Rourke3]

Just Craigleith. Seems to take ages to get out no matter what the time of day.

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[matty_f]

See people who don't indicate, why? I don't get it. I was behind a car today for a good few miles, 3 roundabouts, a couple of turns onto different roads and a right turn at a junction and they didn't indicate once. It must be a wilful decision for it to happen that many times rather than just a one off error. Is it laziness? A feeling that other actions are making your intentions obvious or has it become cool not to indicate?
I hate those people.

[Bangkok Hibby]

See people who don't indicate, why? I don't get it. I was behind a car today for a good few miles, 3 roundabouts, a couple of turns onto different roads and a right turn at a junction and they didn't indicate once. It must be a wilful decision for it to happen that many times rather than just a one off error. Is it laziness? A feeling that other actions are making your intentions obvious or has it become cool not to indicate?

Signalling is a real hit and miss affair in Thailand. Its so erratic you learn not to trust it at all. People turning/switching lanes without signalling is common. As is signalling but not turning. Even people who drive for a living can travel miles without turning off their indicator.

[overdrive]

Annoying features on cars. For example, lane assist where it corrects your positioning if you go across a lane without indicating. I think this one is border line dangerous. On my old car, new car that I got at the weekend and my girlfriend’s car it regularly misinterprets lane markings and you can feel the car being pushed in a direction that you don’t want. Annoyingly, it is always enabled on ignition so you have to remember to turn it off. If you are prone to falling asleep at the wheel, you shouldn’t be driving!

My new car seems to want to critique my driving - a message popped up yesterday implying that I was too slow in comparison to the car in front from a red light changing to green.

[AltheHibby]

Has anyone based in England noticed that in that awful Highways England ad for smart motorways that the guy who breaks down is in lane 3 when he should be in lane 2.

I hate people who do that.

[Northernhibee]

Annoying features on cars. For example, lane assist where it corrects your positioning if you go across a lane without indicating. I think this one is border line dangerous. On my old car, new car that I got at the weekend and my girlfriend’s car it regularly misinterprets lane markings and you can feel the car being pushed in a direction that you don’t want. Annoyingly, it is always enabled on ignition so you have to remember to turn it off. If you are prone to falling asleep at the wheel, you shouldn’t be driving!

My new car seems to want to critique my driving - a message popped up yesterday implying that I was too slow in comparison to the car in front from a red light changing to green.

My partner has an all singing, all dancing Corolla. The thing won’t shut up with beeps and pings and bloops. I drive old bangers which are much more relaxing as a result.

[O'Rourke3]

Annoying features on cars. For example, lane assist where it corrects your positioning if you go across a lane without indicating. I think this one is border line dangerous. On my old car, new car that I got at the weekend and my girlfriend’s car it regularly misinterprets lane markings and you can feel the car being pushed in a direction that you don’t want. Annoyingly, it is always enabled on ignition so you have to remember to turn it off. If you are prone to falling asleep at the wheel, you shouldn’t be driving!

My new car seems to want to critique my driving - a message popped up yesterday implying that I was too slow in comparison to the car in front from a red light changing to green.Our office now has a Kia PHEV. When I took it to Oban I had no idea it had driver assistance and wondered why it was attempting to stop me steering round a very tricky curve. The parking sensors however were god send when someone blocked me in a parking space in an Inverness hotel car park. I destest lane assist.

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[lord bunberry]

Annoying features on cars. For example, lane assist where it corrects your positioning if you go across a lane without indicating. I think this one is border line dangerous. On my old car, new car that I got at the weekend and my girlfriend’s car it regularly misinterprets lane markings and you can feel the car being pushed in a direction that you don’t want. Annoyingly, it is always enabled on ignition so you have to remember to turn it off. If you are prone to falling asleep at the wheel, you shouldn’t be driving!

My new car seems to want to critique my driving - a message popped up yesterday implying that I was too slow in comparison to the car in front from a red light changing to green.
Tell me about it. Mine went into limp mode yesterday meaning I could only drive at 10mph, it kept saying the engine was overheating, but it wasn’t. The only thing wrong with it was the sensor was faulty. Basically the car is working fine, but the thing that’s meant to tell me there’s a fault was faulty. There’s a lot to said for buying older cars.

[Peevemor]

Tell me about it. Mine went into limp mode yesterday...

Are we still talking about cars?

[J-C]

Annoying features on cars. For example, lane assist where it corrects your positioning if you go across a lane without indicating. I think this one is border line dangerous. On my old car, new car that I got at the weekend and my girlfriend’s car it regularly misinterprets lane markings and you can feel the car being pushed in a direction that you don’t want. Annoyingly, it is always enabled on ignition so you have to remember to turn it off. If you are prone to falling asleep at the wheel, you shouldn’t be driving!

My new car seems to want to critique my driving - a message popped up yesterday implying that I was too slow in comparison to the car in front from a red light changing to green.


Could it be a text from the impatient driver behind you?

[lord bunberry]

Are we still talking about cars?
:tee hee::tee hee:

[Just_Jimmy]

Has anyone based in England noticed that in that awful Highways England ad for smart motorways that the guy who breaks down is in lane 3 when he should be in lane 2.

I hate people who do that.is that the "think left" or some pish?

smart motorways are vile.

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[AltheHibby]

is that the "think left" or some pish?

smart motorways are vile.

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That's the one

There is a problem around here in that people now think the hard shoulder is a running lane at all times and zip along it undertaking people in lane 1.

[Just_Jimmy]

That's the one

There is a problem around here in that people now think the hard shoulder is a running lane at all times and zip along it undertaking people in lane 1.the M60 around Manchester is awful.

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[Pretty Boy]

People who think rules don't apply to them.

Outside the nursery my daughter goes to (conncected to a school) there are double yellow lines. They are a fairly recent addition as it was like wacky races before. Every single day there are people who ignore them and park directly outside the school; it's a narrowish road so that impacts cars travelling in either direction and quickly leads to congestion. There is ample space for parking a couple of minutes walk away but the lazy, entitled *******s continue with their selfish actions. No doubt the same types who park in the the pick up point or blue badge spaces at supermarkets.

[Hibrandenburg]

People who think rules don't apply to them.

Outside the nursery my daughter goes to (conncected to a school) there are double yellow lines. They are a fairly recent addition as it was like wacky races before. Every single day there are people who ignore them and park directly outside the school; it's a narrowish road so that impacts cars travelling in either direction and quickly leads to congestion. There is ample space for parking a couple of minutes walk away but the lazy, entitled *******s continue with their selfish actions. No doubt the same types who park in the the pick up point or blue badge spaces at supermarkets.

And the first to scream when they get a ticket.

[Northernhibee]

And the first to scream when they get a ticket.

The lifeblood of Angry People In Local Newspapers.

[Scouse Hibee]

Driving home regularly late at night as I do now I have realised that to some idiots quieter roads means they think they can drive like lunatics and ignore spied limits etc. Last night some absolute ersehole overtook me just past the Zoo heading West by going into the wrong side of the road and going head to head with a bus heading East, ****** unbelievable and not the first example of lunatic driving I have witnessed recently.

[Hibrandenburg]

I've noticed that recently, stopping at red lights has become optional.

[AltheHibby]

I've noticed that recently, stopping at red lights has become optional.

Ah, you've adopted the Birmingham amendment to the traffic light laws.

I suppose our peeves are small beer to the drivers currently stuck in the queues at Suez!

[J-C]

I've noticed that recently, stopping at red lights has become optional.

Used to be amber gamblers, now it's red gamblers. I was crossing the lights at George St heading east at Hanover when an Uber decided the red didn't apply to him and he came flying over the junction coming from Princes St. I was bloody furious as I had a punter in the taxi at the time and had to slamm my breaks on.

[Scouse Hibee]

Used to be amber gamblers, now it's red gamblers. I was crossing the lights at George St heading east at Hanover when an Uber decided the red didn't apply to him and he came flying over the junction coming from Princes St. I was bloody furious as I had a punter in the taxi at the time and had to slamm my breaks on.

It’s getting that bad that if I am approaching lights that have just changed to green, I am always on the lookout for the late red light runner coming across the junction.

[McD]

It’s getting that bad that if I am approaching lights that have just changed to green, I am always on the lookout for the late red light runner coming across the junction.


:agree:

My wife mumps when I give myself an extra a second or 2 at a junction/lights, and says yeah but it’ll be their fault if there’s a crash’. I agree, but remind her that I’d rather just avoid a crash altogether than have to worry about who’s fault it is whilst getting cut out of a car wreck

[GreenNWhiteArmy]

Delivery drivers (DPD, etc)

I get that for a lot of them they're working to a tight schedule with many drop offs but is there really any need to be driving so fast through residential areas and sitting up other drivers' *****?

[Northernhibee]

People who park in the drop off/pick up area at the hospital.

There's a car park within literally the same walking distance but it causes absolute havoc at rush times. Two or three cars take the space of five and it spills right back out onto the road.

Completely inconsiderate.

[overdrive]

I’ve mentioned previously the folk that put the cone out to reserve their preferred space in my development’s car park. There’s a new annoyance taking up spaces in the car park now. Some guy has taken to putting fitness equipment across several parking spaces and doing a workout there for an hour at a time. Take it to the communal grass area or the park 2 mins away, mate and let me park there.

[Scouse Hibee]

Drivers who indicate when driving a bend......why?

[Keith_M]

Drivers who indicate when driving a bend......why?


Can't say I've ever noticed that.

I'll now have to go for a wee drive in the car to see if I can spot anybody doing it...

[matty_f]

Drivers who indicate when driving a bend......why?

There are some roads where you can see how it happens (i.e. where 'straight on' takes you on to a different road but the road you're on curves right (poor road markings don't help here), and I think some folk just err on the side of caution if they're unsure. Doesn't do any harm, but totally unnecessary at the same time. :greengrin

[Jones28]

General roundabout etiquette at the roundabout in Carnwath. The general trend seems to be to wait until you’re just about hitting before indicating you’re turning left.

[Hibrandenburg]

Can't say I've ever noticed that.

I'll now have to go for a wee drive in the car to see if I can spot anybody doing it...

You must have noticed it over here? It's the law if you're on a signed priority road that curves to the left or right at junctions.

[J-C]

Drivers who indicate when driving a bend......why?

Or indicate on a piece of road where you can only go one direction, e.g. going from Sth Charlotte St to Lothian Rd, no need to indicate right and then left as you can only go that way.

[AltheHibby]

Or indicate on a piece of road where you can only go one direction, e.g. going from Sth Charlotte St to Lothian Rd, no need to indicate right and then left as you can only go that way.

To be fair, I often do similar. I'm not indicating for other drivers, but for pedestrians who may well not know the lane markings and therefore the way I am planning to go.

[Bangkok Hibby]

To be fair, I often do similar. I'm not indicating for other drivers, but for pedestrians who may well not know the lane markings and therefore the way I am planning to go.

Yes, a peeve of mine is when I'm out walking and drivers not indicating. Many drivers forget you indicate to let other road users know your intentions. Pedestrians are road users.

[Keith_M]

You must have noticed it over here? It's the law if you're on a signed priority road that curves to the left or right at junctions.


Do you really think my wife let me drive when I was in Germany?


Oh that's so touchingly naive.


:wink:

[Wembley67]

Or indicate on a piece of road where you can only go one direction, e.g. going from Sth Charlotte St to Lothian Rd, no need to indicate right and then left as you can only go that way.

A lot of that behaviour is force of habit. I've seen myself hitting the indiciator coming out of the drive, I stay in a quiet cul-de-sac :greengrin

[Scouse Hibee]

Mobility scooters on the road that shouldn’t be.

[Hibrandenburg]

Do you really think my wife let me drive when I was in Germany?


Oh that's so touchingly naive.


:wink:

I'm taking notes in case I actually meet her. :wink:

[Future17]

Mobility scooters on the road that shouldn’t be.

Agree with this. Also, I've noticed a new trend of runners running on the road when there's a pavement available. Bizarre.

[silverhibee]

I just got a new Kia Sportage and it has this lane thing that if you drift the car corrects it self, anyone know if you can turn this off, very annoying so it is. :greengrin

[overdrive]

I just got a new Kia Sportage and it has this lane thing that if you drift the car corrects it self, anyone know if you can turn this off, very annoying so it is. :greengrin

See my post further up this thread. If it is anything like the Rio and C’eed you have to turn it off at the start of each journey. On the C’eed there’s a button on the panel between the dashboard and drivers door with a car in between two lanes. If there’s something similar in your car press that. It is a faff and a half in a Rio to do the same thing.

Edit: this is the button you want

https://www.google.com/search?q=kia+lane+assist+button&rlz=1CDGOYI_enGB622GB622&hl=en-GB&prmd=ivn&sxsrf=ALeKk02G2viPzwoDTpyCyrpqzIqPM6_nAA:161797536 6146&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiUj9D3o_HvAhXJgv0HHWfeCIoQ_AUoAXoECAIQA Q&biw=414&bih=720&dpr=2#imgrc=AvyIVrZ7rxqSyM

[silverhibee]

See my post further up this thread. If it is anything like the Rio and C’eed you have to turn it off at the start of each journey. On the C’eed there’s a button on the panel between the dashboard and drivers door with a car in between two lanes. If there’s something similar in your car press that. It is a faff and a half in a Rio to do the same thing.

Edit: this is the button you want

https://www.google.com/search?q=kia+lane+assist+button&rlz=1CDGOYI_enGB622GB622&hl=en-GB&prmd=ivn&sxsrf=ALeKk02G2viPzwoDTpyCyrpqzIqPM6_nAA:161797536 6146&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwiUj9D3o_HvAhXJgv0HHWfeCIoQ_AUoAXoECAIQA Q&biw=414&bih=720&dpr=2#imgrc=AvyIVrZ7rxqSyM

Thanks, will have a look when I go out. :aok:

[Danderhall Hibs]

I just got a new Kia Sportage and it has this lane thing that if you drift the car corrects it self, anyone know if you can turn this off, very annoying so it is. :greengrin

Mine is 3 years old but it’s on the dash to the right of the steering wheel.

[Keith_M]

I'm taking notes in case I actually meet her. :wink:


You're not actually going to tell her all the stories I've posted about her on here, are you?

:paranoid:

[heretoday]

To the driver of the van with Secom on the side who harassed me and my family in a 20mph limit road near Tesco in Corstorphine recently: I'm stil looking for you. And when I find you you're getting a slap. Ye ken?

[silverhibee]

Mine is 3 years old but it’s on the dash to the right of the steering wheel.

That wasn’t hard to find, now back to swerving all over the road again. Thanks. :aok:

[Casey1875]

Having to deal with car salesmen. I am yet to encounter a decent one. I know its their job to get you to buy something so will basically say anything, but I have yet to find one who makes me think that the only reason they are doing that job is that they couldn't get another one due to sheer incompetence.

[Keith_M]

Having to deal with car salesmen. I am yet to encounter a decent one. I know its their job to get you to buy something so will basically say anything, but I have yet to find one who makes me think that the only reason they are doing that job is that they couldn't get another one due to sheer incompetence.


The last time I went to a Car Showroom, we were immediately approached by a Salesman and he started the usual sales babble.

I cut him off half way through a sentence by saying "That's really fascinating, but if we have any questions, I'll give you a shout".

He went off in the huff... and we bought the car we'd went in to look at from one of his colleagues.

[speedy_gonzales]

Having to deal with car salesmen. I am yet to encounter a decent one. I know its their job to get you to buy something so will basically say anything, but I have yet to find one who makes me think that the only reason they are doing that job is that they couldn't get another one due to sheer incompetence.

I've certainly came across salesman that make me walk of the courtyard or out the sofa shop. I can't put my finger on what character trait it is but if there was a group of friends, the salesman I've encountered will be the dick that has seen and done everything before you.
The best salesman I've encountered was a guy called Eddie that worked with West End Skoda. He reminded me a little of Gil Gunderson from The Simpsons. No pressure whatsoever, appeared to operate with honesty and it was a pleasure doing business with him.

[patch1875]

I've certainly came across salesman that make me walk of the courtyard or out the sofa shop. I can't put my finger on what character trait it is but if there was a group of friends, the salesman I've encountered will be the dick that has seen and done everything before you.
The best salesman I've encountered was a guy called Eddie that worked with West End Skoda. He reminded me a little of Gil Gunderson from The Simpsons. No pressure whatsoever, appeared to operate with honesty and it was a pleasure doing business with him.


I bought a car from Eddie!

I’m ex motor trade so know a few people still so I can usually track someone decent from them.

[Northernhibee]

I've certainly came across salesman that make me walk of the courtyard or out the sofa shop. I can't put my finger on what character trait it is but if there was a group of friends, the salesman I've encountered will be the dick that has seen and done everything before you.
The best salesman I've encountered was a guy called Eddie that worked with West End Skoda. He reminded me a little of Gil Gunderson from The Simpsons. No pressure whatsoever, appeared to operate with honesty and it was a pleasure doing business with him.

I sold cars for four or five years or so and to turn this one on its head, a big pet peeve is the amount of people who you'd be completely honest with, and then they'd go and buy from someone who promised them the earth without any thought to how true it actually was.

Two key examples - someone who wanted a car on PCP that "won't be in negative equity". I explained that for the most part of a PCP that a car will be in negative equity and although some people may word things to claim otherwise, that's twisting the truth at best and an outright lie at worst. Spent two hours on an excellent deal for the customer, found the right car for them, a good test drive that lasted a long time - and then bought from someone who promised them that their car would "never be in negative equity". Guess what happened when they looked to see if they could upgrade to a bigger car a year in because they were expecting another child in the family. :rolleyes:

The other one was when we had a brand new model of a car coming out. Again, like above gave them all the time in the world, no pressure or anything like that. Put together a really strong offer. Customer must have done it as soon as they got home but put it through Carwow and got offered a deal that when we sat down and looked at it, couldn't figure out how someone could offer the deal without losing a whole lot of money. Said that it looked very odd and to get clarification that it was the new model as opposed to the outgoing one, customer didn't do that, took the deal - only to find out two months down the line that it wasn't what they thought they were being offered and tried to order from me but within the same timescale that I'd offered when we'd first sat down two months prior. Went off the handle over the phone when the lead time had gotten as long as six to seven months, saying that I'd offered them delivery within three. Put simply - customer didn't get that model of car that they'd really wanted at all as they had to take something else to get a car within the timescale they needed.

I'm not going to pretend that I got everything right in my time - every salesperson will have a few horror stories of things that went wrong out of their control - or that everyone in the trade is brilliant, but there are more good salespeople in the trade than bad ones in my experience. Sales managers are a different story and are often the old Swiss Tony types who think that style still works and that everyone should follow their style and that's the big problem.

Still, there are some customers who absolutely will not listen to the truth and that either gives the salesperson two choices - not sell as many cars and have that sales manager breathing down your neck or take a "if you can't beat them join them" mentality.

[Casey1875]

I sold cars for four or five years or so and to turn this one on its head, a big pet peeve is the amount of people who you'd be completely honest with, and then they'd go and buy from someone who promised them the earth without any thought to how true it actually was.

Two key examples - someone who wanted a car on PCP that "won't be in negative equity". I explained that for the most part of a PCP that a car will be in negative equity and although some people may word things to claim otherwise, that's twisting the truth at best and an outright lie at worst. Spent two hours on an excellent deal for the customer, found the right car for them, a good test drive that lasted a long time - and then bought from someone who promised them that their car would "never be in negative equity". Guess what happened when they looked to see if they could upgrade to a bigger car a year in because they were expecting another child in the family. :rolleyes:

The other one was when we had a brand new model of a car coming out. Again, like above gave them all the time in the world, no pressure or anything like that. Put together a really strong offer. Customer must have done it as soon as they got home but put it through Carwow and got offered a deal that when we sat down and looked at it, couldn't figure out how someone could offer the deal without losing a whole lot of money. Said that it looked very odd and to get clarification that it was the new model as opposed to the outgoing one, customer didn't do that, took the deal - only to find out two months down the line that it wasn't what they thought they were being offered and tried to order from me but within the same timescale that I'd offered when we'd first sat down two months prior. Went off the handle over the phone when the lead time had gotten as long as six to seven months, saying that I'd offered them delivery within three. Put simply - customer didn't get that model of car that they'd really wanted at all as they had to take something else to get a car within the timescale they needed.

I'm not going to pretend that I got everything right in my time - every salesperson will have a few horror stories of things that went wrong out of their control - or that everyone in the trade is brilliant, but there are more good salespeople in the trade than bad ones in my experience. Sales managers are a different story and are often the old Swiss Tony types who think that style still works and that everyone should follow their style and that's the big problem.

Still, there are some customers who absolutely will not listen to the truth and that either gives the salesperson two choices - not sell as many cars and have that sales manager breathing down your neck or take a "if you can't beat them join them" mentality.

Unfortunately all I have had are the Swiss Tony types. One thing that is glaringly obvious is a real lack of product knowledge as well. I get that there a lot of variables in cars but I would rather wait 10 minutes for them to research it that be told rubbish. One thing that annoyed me was after telling one what I would be using it for (loads of motorway driving and need all wheel drive) when I was looking at one said, if you were a woman then I'd tell you to buy that but you would be better with a bigger engine. Just left me thinking he was a twat that you couldn't trust.

[Northernhibee]

Unfortunately all I have had are the Swiss Tony types. One thing that is glaringly obvious is a real lack of product knowledge as well. I get that there a lot of variables in cars but I would rather wait 10 minutes for them to research it that be told rubbish. One thing that annoyed me was after telling one what I would be using it for (loads of motorway driving and need all wheel drive) when I was looking at one said, if you were a woman then I'd tell you to buy that but you would be better with a bigger engine. Just left me thinking he was a twat that you couldn't trust.
I think it may come down to who is in charge of recruiting and training for each showroom or dealership group - when I first was hired into the trade there was a big emphasis on finding someone who could meet individual targets yet work as part of a team, but also to put that person through the official manufacturer training (and I’ll go out and say that the BMW training academy is one of the best training facilities in the country, period). Hugely expensive for the business to do so.

As a result we had an office of people who knew the product but wouldn’t screw each other over. If a customer walked in on someone’s day off then another colleague would help them knowing it’d be reciprocated down the line.

Got headhunted by another showroom a few years later and the experience was the opposite - dog eat dog, poor training, blame culture (that landed with nobody but the salesperson). Made myself ill within seven months. Horrible experience. The senior salesperson there was a hideous **** who didn’t look after his customers, was a bully and screwed over anyone to get an advantage himself.

Still, I’d say the majority I met in the trade were good - but good staff tend to attract other good staff to the same showroom so there may be a reason why people tend to find Swiss Toni’s in groups.

[c31]

Walking in to the Arnold Clark car showroom in Seafield and being greeted with the salesman saying "a'right big man" made me turn around and walk out!

[Northernhibee]

Walking in to the Arnold Clark car showroom in Seafield and being greeted with the salesman saying "a'right big man" made me turn around and walk out!

I absolutely hate that as well :greengrin

At the training academy we went to, there was an entire morning spent on greeting people properly. They'd get absolutely buried if one of the team there seen that.

I perfected the greeting that shows that I'm mindfully not badgering them or getting into chatting straight away, but also let them know I was there to help out. It got the initial "ah god, now he's speaking to us" out of the way, but also let them have some time to look around. Later sales managers tried to beat that out of me as the old school way of thinking was "when they come in, go and speak to them, don't take no or go away for an answer and don't let them leave without buying a car" and things went totally downhill for me after that.

I sold most of my cars to people who didn't like car salespeople as I really dislike being sold to myself and treated people the way I liked to be treated.

[Northernhibee]

On the subject of car showrooms - VIP events, sales events and the like that. Half the time the "discounts" aren't that great, the "free gifts" are accounted for when a deal and discount is being drawn up (i.e. if the free gift has a £200 value, the dealership will just give £200 less discount than they would be able to).

The companies brought in to call to invite people in never take into account if a person is in a position to change car. When salespeople did that themselves, they wouldn't call someone who didn't want to come along, who had been in and had for example been declined finance or were in negative equity and couldn't change - these companies just drag anyone in and get their hopes up too. Wastes that persons time, wastes the salespersons time, nobody leaves it looking good.

Even worse, the whole "invite only" thing is bollocks. If someone pulls up, gets out of a car with their card in hand and says "I'd like to buy a car", they're not being told it's an invite only event. Salespeople aren't allowed time off on this period - annual leave is cancelled, days off are cancelled and the like.

It's completely insulting to the intelligence of customers and staff and is usually when a calamitously uncreative area manager and marketing team sit down and figure out how to sell more cars.

[speedy_gonzales]

On the subject of car showrooms - VIP events, sales events and the like that. Half the time the "discounts" aren't that great, the "free gifts" are accounted for when a deal and discount is being drawn up (i.e. if the free gift has a £200 value, the dealership will just give £200 less discount than they would be able to).

The companies brought in to call to invite people in never take into account if a person is in a position to change car. When salespeople did that themselves, they wouldn't call someone who didn't want to come along, who had been in and had for example been declined finance or were in negative equity and couldn't change - these companies just drag anyone in and get their hopes up too. Wastes that persons time, wastes the salespersons time, nobody leaves it looking good.

Even worse, the whole "invite only" thing is bollocks. If someone pulls up, gets out of a car with their card in hand and says "I'd like to buy a car", they're not being told it's an invite only event. Salespeople aren't allowed time off on this period - annual leave is cancelled, days off are cancelled and the like.

It's completely insulting to the intelligence of customers and staff and is usually when a calamitously uncreative area manager and marketing team sit down and figure out how to sell more cars.

You sound like you've worked in a Peter Vardy showroom 🤣
The "invite only" event is exactly what was happening the day my wife and I decided to look for a new car. The showroom was a hive of activity, chaotic, quite off-putting actually.
There was no salesman available to deal with us but they didn't want to lose a sale so asked one of their technicians to take us out on a test ride. Now, I'm not sure if that was a deliberate ploy or not, but not being harassed or brown-nosed by an over enthusiastic sales guy is one of the contributing factors to us actually buying the car.
We had an idea what we wanted, we knew what we could afford, all we needed was the opportunity to drive the car without the spiel.

[Danderhall Hibs]

On the subject of car showrooms - VIP events, sales events and the like that. Half the time the "discounts" aren't that great, the "free gifts" are accounted for when a deal and discount is being drawn up (i.e. if the free gift has a £200 value, the dealership will just give £200 less discount than they would be able to).

The companies brought in to call to invite people in never take into account if a person is in a position to change car. When salespeople did that themselves, they wouldn't call someone who didn't want to come along, who had been in and had for example been declined finance or were in negative equity and couldn't change - these companies just drag anyone in and get their hopes up too. Wastes that persons time, wastes the salespersons time, nobody leaves it looking good.

Even worse, the whole "invite only" thing is bollocks. If someone pulls up, gets out of a car with their card in hand and says "I'd like to buy a car", they're not being told it's an invite only event. Salespeople aren't allowed time off on this period - annual leave is cancelled, days off are cancelled and the like.

It's completely insulting to the intelligence of customers and staff and is usually when a calamitously uncreative area manager and marketing team sit down and figure out how to sell more cars.

I’ve been looking for a car recently and was drawn to a deal Nissan were advertising. Go in for a test drive and the guy says do you want me to get you some numbers (yes) he sends me them and they’re all more expensive than the headline deal. I said can I just get the deal one then? That’s only in red and we don’t have any.

So basically they’re advertising a deal that’s not available.

[Danderhall Hibs]

And another one - when the salesman goes “let me just go and speak to my manager” and comes back with a deal that they’re doing just for you and that’s costing them money to do.

Aye right.

[Mikey_1875]

the experience was the opposite - dog eat dog, poor training, blame culture (that landed with nobody but the salesperson).

This was my experience of working in car sales for a couple of years as well. Again, it was driven by a similar type of sales manager(s) that you describe. One thing that did impress me was their creativity in making up new insults/reasons to slag you and the team off every morning meeting! One manager was particularly handy at dishing out fines left, right and centre for any minor indiscretions.

Pretty toxic atmosphere most of the time with tensions running high as the showroom as a whole was not meeting targets. The difference in wages between hitting and not hitting target is so big that it will always lead to desperation tactics when dealing with customers. As you said have came across plenty of jack the lad type salesman but there are also plenty of good ones I have worked with too.

Happy to be out of the industry but one thing I will say in the defence is that salesman get a bad reputation for telling lies (and in some cases well deserved) but it is nothing compared to half the nonsense that would come out of the customers mouths on a daily basis. Incredible some of the tales they would come out with to avoid just telling you the real objection. Part of the job though and certainly made me a lot less naive when dealing with people in general.

From what I have seen and heard recently is that the classic salesman is on the way out and will slowly be replaced with more and more product genius’ who are less interested (and compensated) for the hard sell. Negotiating deals will be a thing of the past and it will just be one rate/price for all take it or leave it.

[Northernhibee]

I’ve been looking for a car recently and was drawn to a deal Nissan were advertising. Go in for a test drive and the guy says do you want me to get you some numbers (yes) he sends me them and they’re all more expensive than the headline deal. I said can I just get the deal one then? That’s only in red and we don’t have any.

So basically they’re advertising a deal that’s not available.

Absolutely HATED that with a passion. It made the salesperson look dishonest when it was the company who knew what they were doing. Literally no reason why the same discount couldn’t be given for any colour.

Customers never seen past blaming the salesperson though. Hugely thankless job, that.

[McD]

I’ve been looking for a car recently and was drawn to a deal Nissan were advertising. Go in for a test drive and the guy says do you want me to get you some numbers (yes) he sends me them and they’re all more expensive than the headline deal. I said can I just get the deal one then? That’s only in red and we don’t have any.

So basically they’re advertising a deal that’s not available.



once was chatting to a guy who’d worked as a car salesman, and he was speaking about this. Said that it was virtually Impossible to get a car for the price in an advert, due to a myriad of small print, down to things like the price only being for say first responders or serving armed forces, specific colour, advertised price only available at specific days/times of the week, price only applies if you take a service plan, and so on

and, even if all those conditions were met, there would always be admin fees, cost to put fuel in, etc, to be added as well

[GlesgaeHibby]

Mobility scooters on the road that shouldn’t be.

Absolutely. Nearly hit this pillock the other week. Came round a bend on the 60mph coast road to be met with this arse trundling along the middle of the road. He does it just to be obtuse as well.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/1637866/pensioner-robert-cockburn-scooter-road-complaint-east-lothian/

[Northernhibee]

Absolutely. Nearly hit this pillock the other week. Came round a bend on the 60mph coast road to be met with this arse trundling along the middle of the road. He does it just to be obtuse as well.

https://www.thescottishsun.co.uk/news/1637866/pensioner-robert-cockburn-scooter-road-complaint-east-lothian/

Sounds a proper dickhead.

[Killiehibbie]

Sounds a proper dickhead.

He might have a legal right to be there but that won't stop him getting flattened.

[Moulin Yarns]

On the subject of car salespersons, before Christmas I was wanting a look at the Peugeot e-2008 and went to the local dealer, one guy had a couple going through the paperwork at a desk, one was in an office on the phone and 2 others were chatting by the coffee machine. I wandered round the car, looking in all the windows, getting down to look closer at the grille and wheels, showing a lot of interest in the car. Not so much as an acknowledgement!

[Northernhibee]

Happy to be out of the industry but one thing I will say in the defence is that salesman get a bad reputation for telling lies (and in some cases well deserved) but it is nothing compared to half the nonsense that would come out of the customers mouths on a daily basis. Incredible some of the tales they would come out with to avoid just telling you the real objection. Part of the job though and certainly made me a lot less naive when dealing with people in general.

Yep, some people thought that talking to salespeople like dirt would get them a good deal. I had one person who casually informed me that "I want the best deal and if anything goes wrong I can find out where you live and we can sort it there". I reported it to my area manager who did nothing about it but an "I know that customer, he's a right character. He won't mean it". The same guy phoned five or six times a day screaming and barking down the phone. I left two months after and caused as much pettiness around that office as much as I could before leaving.

Also had another customer in that two month limbo period who when asked a fairly routine question about an option he wanted in the car went off on one, calling me all sorts. Thought nothing of it, but got an e-mail asking for a quote which made it clear that he'd gone around every dealership and the cheapest price would win. Simply replied "following our previous correspondences, I politely decline the opportunity to tender for your business. I wish you well in your search for a car". He went off the handle at that one too, phoning up and saying it's a disgrace and it sounds like I didn't want his business. Calmly replied "You're quite correct, I don't".

You're quite right about the amount of lies you're told though, I missed out on a customer satisfaction bonus one month because someone claimed that I'd promised them their factory order car within five weeks (I defo hadn't, don't promise anything you're not certain will happen) and gave me a terrible review on a customer satisfaction survey, despite having arranged all sorts for the delivery to make life easier for them, even getting their new car delivered to their door. Got absolutely chewed out by my area manager for the promises I hadn't made.

It's not something that will ever gather any steam because people have no sympathy for salespeople, but it's seen as acceptable even within their employers sometimes for them to take all sorts of abuse. I genuinely ended up quite unwell at the end of my time in the trade - dizzy spells, physically sick every morning, lost a lot of weight, lack of sleep. Absolutely bugger all support in regards to that, apart from a "Are you in a fit state to work?" on one occasion.

I wouldn't advise for anyone to go into a sales job in the motor trade nowadays; manufacturer demands and targets are so unrealistically high and that just filters down onto the sales floor.

[Peevemor]

...

It's not something that will ever gather any steam because people have no sympathy for salespeople, ...

I often do to be honest.

Working in building I've dealt with countless sales reps over the years. The ones who have the easiest job are those that work for the likes of Velux (for example) - they don't have to sell you anything as the product sells itself. They're there simply to make sure you know about any new products/ranges and that your catalogues are up to date. Compare that to the middle aged guy who turns up in a shabby suit trying to sell you artificial stone cladding made from polystyrene and you think - "you poor b*****d, how did you end up doing that?."

I'm not even rude to people cold calling by phone (apart from the tossers tryng to sell you investment opportunities). I'm sure these people would much rather earn their living in a more rewarding way than working in a call centre trying to sell crap to folk.

All I expect from any sales person is that he (or she) is straight with me, that he knows his stuff, that he treats me with the same respect that I show him and that he doesn't take me for an idiot.

And above all, understand that when I say no I mean it.

[hibee]

On the subject of car salespersons, before Christmas I was wanting a look at the Peugeot e-2008 and went to the local dealer, one guy had a couple going through the paperwork at a desk, one was in an office on the phone and 2 others were chatting by the coffee machine. I wandered round the car, looking in all the windows, getting down to look closer at the grille and wheels, showing a lot of interest in the car. Not so much as an acknowledgement!

That sounds like my ideal experience, I’d much rather go to them if I need something than have them trying to start a conversation!

[matty_f]

And another one - when the salesman goes “let me just go and speak to my manager” and comes back with a deal that they’re doing just for you and that’s costing them money to do.

Aye right.

That’s a nonsense, eh? Why bother with the farce, everyone knows it’s bollocks.

[Peevemor]

That’s a nonsense, eh? Why bother with the farce, everyone knows it’s bollocks.

Apart from if the manager is also the sales guy's wife, in which case it's probably true.

[Mikey_1875]

I wouldn't advise for anyone to go into a sales job in the motor trade nowadays; manufacturer demands and targets are so unrealistically high and that just filters down onto the sales floor.

:agree: The stories you tell are typical of a normal day at the office and it’s very difficult to leave all that stuff at the door when you come in from work. With the benefit of hindsight I can look back on it as ‘character building’ but the industry is definitely in need of a shake up as some of the processes are well in the dark ages. Just don’t get me started on people and their obsession with ****ing car mats :greengrin

[GlesgaeHibby]

Sounds a proper dickhead.


He might have a legal right to be there but that won't stop him getting flattened.

There's no reasoning with him. The police and other residents have tried speaking with him to try and encourage him to use the pavement - for his own safety as well as that of other road users. The pavement in question is a good size largely split into two parts as well, with a lane for cyclists and one for people walking. I think the guy gets a kick out of being an arse.

[Keith_M]

Wow, the complaints about car salesmen have really got some folk on the defensive


:greengrin


FWIW, even though I've met some really annoyingly pushy salesmen (like the one I mentioned), I've also encountered quite a few who would just welcome you when you arrive, tell you 'if you need any assistance, just come over to my desk', then leave you to look around without any stress.

That's definitely how it should be.

[Northernhibee]

People who park in loading bays. Just had to carry a whole load of heavy shelving a country mile as the two nearest loading bays had cars in with their hazards on.

[Northernhibee]

Some absolute prick an hour ago - I was driving towards Lochee and a taxi comes out in front of me in a move best described as “cheeky” - forced me to slow a little to maintain a gap between us. For some reason the dickhead in a Lexus behind him also decided to go. Slammed on the brakes, blasted the horn as I thought he hadn’t seen me and would be able to take avoiding action but he continued on with no deviation.

I have absolutely no idea how we didn’t make contact. Genuinely must have been millimetres - quite literally. Basically him saying “I’m taking this piece of tarmac and am willing to have an accident if you don’t slam on the brakes and avoid me”.

Absolute ****ing prick.

[matty_f]

I was coming back from Kinross yesterday, joined the motorway of the slip and moved to overtake a wee red car.

As I’m passing, the red car speeds up to the point where I’m having to accelerate not to pass it. I generally don’t speed, but i had a car approaching behind me that o was going to have to give way to , and so i accelerated to go past.

Hit 80, and thus wee red car is still trying its best not to let me by. As i drew level with the driver, i glanced across and I swear it was the old woman from the Tweety-pie cartoons driving it. She had more years than miles per hour. Not what i was expecting at all!

Anyway, she’s a ****ing liability.

[Speedy]

People who park in loading bays. Just had to carry a whole load of heavy shelving a country mile as the two nearest loading bays had cars in with their hazards on.

Sounds like they were loading? :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

Inexperienced delivery drivers 🤔

https://www-dailyrecord-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/former-boxer-told-lucky-not-23958323.amp?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16190387834750&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailyrecord.co.uk%2Fnew s%2Flocal-news%2Fformer-boxer-told-lucky-not-23958323

[AltheHibby]

Inexperienced delivery drivers 🤔

https://www-dailyrecord-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/local-news/former-boxer-told-lucky-not-23958323.amp?amp_js_v=a6&amp_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQHKAFQArABIA%3D%3D#aoh=16190387834750&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&amp_tf=From%20%251%24s&ampshare=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.dailyrecord.co.uk%2Fnew s%2Flocal-news%2Fformer-boxer-told-lucky-not-23958323

I used to live in Methven. That scares me.

There is (was( a regular bus service along that road as well as loads of elderly drivers. He could easily have killed someone.

[Moulin Yarns]

I used to live in Methven. That scares me.

There is (was( a regular bus service along that road as well as loads of elderly drivers. He could easily have killed someone.

I live in Perthshire, and worked for the council. Any time I had to go to Crieff I preferred the tulliebelton Road. A nice gentle drive with nobody hassling to get past.

[matty_f]

A car at the Halbeath Roundabout coming from the leisure park, in the middle lane and the pretty-well signposted roundabout, is in front of me, so they’re well placed for exit 2 or 3. As we move off, they brake sharply, indicate left and start drifting the lane next to us (still fine for exit 2, which is what they appear to be going for).
They decide not to go for either that lane or that exit and move back, no signal, into the lane I’m in in front of me.
We get to the next set of lights, they’re in the lane for what was exit 3 at the start of this.
As we move off, they indicate right this time, and cut across the lanes into the one to the right, there’s space for them to move and they indicate in plenty of time, but the car that they move in front of hits their horn got s good three or four seconds.

Pet peeve here is the prick with the horn. The first car, while showing some horrific driving, is clearly lost and their final move was signalled in plenty of time, all it needed was for the horn-prick to ease off their accelerator slightly and let them in safely.

[Bangkok Hibby]

A car at the Halbeath Roundabout coming from the leisure park, in the middle lane and the pretty-well signposted roundabout, is in front of me, so they’re well placed for exit 2 or 3. As we move off, they brake sharply, indicate left and start drifting the lane next to us (still fine for exit 2, which is what they appear to be going for).
They decide not to go for either that lane or that exit and move back, no signal, into the lane I’m in in front of me.
We get to the next set of lights, they’re in the lane for what was exit 3 at the start of this.
As we move off, they indicate right this time, and cut across the lanes into the one to the right, there’s space for them to move and they indicate in plenty of time, but the car that they move in front of hits their horn got s good three or four seconds.

Pet peeve here is the prick with the horn. The first car, while showing some horrific driving, is clearly lost and their final move was signalled in plenty of time, all it needed was for the horn-prick to ease off their accelerator slightly and let them in safely.

Excellent post. Leaning on the horn, unless the target driver is actually dangerous only shows what a dick you are.

[RyeSloan]

A car at the Halbeath Roundabout coming from the leisure park, in the middle lane and the pretty-well signposted roundabout, is in front of me, so they’re well placed for exit 2 or 3. As we move off, they brake sharply, indicate left and start drifting the lane next to us (still fine for exit 2, which is what they appear to be going for).
They decide not to go for either that lane or that exit and move back, no signal, into the lane I’m in in front of me.
We get to the next set of lights, they’re in the lane for what was exit 3 at the start of this.
As we move off, they indicate right this time, and cut across the lanes into the one to the right, there’s space for them to move and they indicate in plenty of time, but the car that they move in front of hits their horn got s good three or four seconds.

Pet peeve here is the prick with the horn. The first car, while showing some horrific driving, is clearly lost and their final move was signalled in plenty of time, all it needed was for the horn-prick to ease off their accelerator slightly and let them in safely.

Someone did that to me the other day at Sheriffhall...a lapse of concentration had left me one lane to the left of what I needed to be in. I quickly check the mirrors and see I have plenty time and space to move to the right.

I indicate and even put a wee dash on to make sure I was not interfering with the car about 3 car lengths behind....only for the trumpet to slam on his horn and keep it on until we had left the roundabout at the next exit. All the while still no where near my bumper!

I felt like stopping the car and smashing his ******g face in to be honest!

Not sure why one idiot with a horn got me so annoyed but it got me right wound up so it did [emoji23]

Anyway I decided against violence to the person and just mashed the accelerator instead and left the twat to eat my dust [emoji2957][emoji2957]

[Moulin Yarns]

A car at the Halbeath Roundabout coming from the leisure park, in the middle lane and the pretty-well signposted roundabout, is in front of me, so they’re well placed for exit 2 or 3. As we move off, they brake sharply, indicate left and start drifting the lane next to us (still fine for exit 2, which is what they appear to be going for).
They decide not to go for either that lane or that exit and move back, no signal, into the lane I’m in in front of me.
We get to the next set of lights, they’re in the lane for what was exit 3 at the start of this.
As we move off, they indicate right this time, and cut across the lanes into the one to the right, there’s space for them to move and they indicate in plenty of time, but the car that they move in front of hits their horn got s good three or four seconds.

Pet peeve here is the prick with the horn. The first car, while showing some horrific driving, is clearly lost and their final move was signalled in plenty of time, all it needed was for the horn-prick to ease off their accelerator slightly and let them in safely.

I've been in similar situation at inveralmond roundabout heading north from Perth.

Approaching the roundabout with 3 lanes, left is left exit, right is 3rd exit north to the A9, middle lane is 2nd exit (industrial estate) and north. Car in front of me in the middle lane on the roundabout shifts over to the right as the lane markings change, suggesting returning down the road she came from, I speed up as I'm going to exit the roundabout at the 3rd exit north, keeping to the correct lane. Woman in the other car hits me, offside rear wing.


Stop and exchange details, I'm accused of cutting her off!!!!

[McD]

I've been in similar situation at inveralmond roundabout heading north from Perth.

Approaching the roundabout with 3 lanes, left is left exit, right is 3rd exit north to the A9, middle lane is 2nd exit (industrial estate) and north. Car in front of me in the middle lane on the roundabout shifts over to the right as the lane markings change, suggesting returning down the road she came from, I speed up as I'm going to exit the roundabout at the 3rd exit north, keeping to the correct lane. Woman in the other car hits me, offside rear wing.


Stop and exchange details, I'm accused of cutting her off!!!!



similar thing happened to my wife a few years ago at the Dobbies roundabout in Livingston with an older (not elderly) couple. The guy gets out the car and starts getting really aggressive with my wife, getting right in her face, shouting and pointing. She got back into her car and phoned my parents who live pretty close (I was at work), the guy is standing outside her car door still shouting and blaming her even though he was in the lane for turning off the roundabout and decided to go straight on and clipped her car

as soon as my dad arrived the guy changed his tune and accused my wife (5’2” and about 8 stone) of being the aggressive one, until my dad told him he’d heard him shouting at her whilst she was on the phone with him, and reminded him that it’s a really hard act getting aggressive with a small woman on her own and he was welcome to try it on with my dad instead. The guy then started getting shirty about taking pictures of the damage and was refusing to exchange insurance details until a call to the police was mentioned, at which point he gave the details then couldn’t leave fast enough

[Killiehibbie]

similar thing happened to my wife a few years ago at the Dobbies roundabout in Livingston with an older (not elderly) couple. The guy gets out the car and starts getting really aggressive with my wife, getting right in her face, shouting and pointing. She got back into her car and phoned my parents who live pretty close (I was at work), the guy is standing outside her car door still shouting and blaming her even though he was in the lane for turning off the roundabout and decided to go straight on and clipped her car

as soon as my dad arrived the guy changed his tune and accused my wife (5’2” and about 8 stone) of being the aggressive one, until my dad told him he’d heard him shouting at her whilst she was on the phone with him, and reminded him that it’s a really hard act getting aggressive with a small woman on her own and he was welcome to try it on with my dad instead. The guy then started getting shirty about taking pictures of the damage and was refusing to exchange insurance details until a call to the police was mentioned, at which point he gave the details then couldn’t leave fast enough
Similar thing happened to my wife when some dick drove into the side of her car in a car park. She locked herself in the car and phoned me, I was about an hour away but she was close to the gym. The guy turned a whiter shade of pale when a couple of powerlifters went out to have a look at the damage.

[Northernhibee]

Loads of small businesses re opening this week, so take a bow Fife Council for the roadworks just outside St Andrews. 95 minutes to complete the 16 miles into work and the high street absolutely dead.

Complete clowns.

[Hibs90]

Been said a million times before but folk who sit at 40/50/60 on dual carriageways for absolutely no reason.

See if they are not confident enough to drive at the speed limit they shouldn't be ****ing driving.

[Hibrandenburg]

Been said a million times before but folk who sit at 40/50/60 on dual carriageways for absolutely no reason.

See if they are not confident enough to drive at the speed limit they shouldn't be ****ing driving.

The clue is in the name "Speed limit". It's neither the recommended speed nor the minimum speed.

[EH6 Hibby]

Been said a million times before but folk who sit at 40/50/60 on dual carriageways for absolutely no reason.

See if they are not confident enough to drive at the speed limit they shouldn't be ****ing driving.

In my opinion, if it’s a dual carriageway, as long as they’re not ridiculously slow, I don’t see the problem them driving under under the limit. There’s a lane to overtake so they’re not impacting anyone else.

I’ll add a peeve of mine which is similar. People that drive up your backside on country roads because you are driving at 50 and not 60. I’m a city driver, I drive on roads I’m familiar with that are well lit. I’m not a bad driver, but if I’m driving on an unfamiliar country road and it’s pitch black I’m not going to drive at 60 the whole way because I don’t know when the next bend in the road is coming. While I roll my eyes at the drivers that overtake me by driving up the wrong side of the road, I’d rather that than try to intimidate me by tailgating me.

[AltheHibby]

The clue is in the name "Speed limit". It's neither the recommended speed nor the minimum speed.

True. As the police say, it's a limit, not a target. However, try driving at, say, 30 on a clear 40MPH road on your driving test and you may well fail for failing g to make satisfactory progress.

[sleeping giant]

Been said a million times before but folk who sit at 40/50/60 on dual carriageways for absolutely no reason.

See if they are not confident enough to drive at the speed limit they shouldn't be ****ing driving.

I dont think angry people should drive.

[Scouse Hibee]

Been said a million times before but folk who sit at 40/50/60 on dual carriageways for absolutely no reason.

See if they are not confident enough to drive at the speed limit they shouldn't be ****ing driving.

Do you also get annoyed at car drivers that don’t drive at 70mph on motorways?

[Pretty Boy]

People who when approaching stationary traffic brake sharply about 100 yards away then stutter up to the queue in 1st gear. Who the **** taught them to drive like that?

I get rolling along if you are in a traffic jam rather than stop starting but the above is something I've only started to notice recently and it's not only bizarre but potentially dangerous.

[Hibs90]

In my opinion, if it’s a dual carriageway, as long as they’re not ridiculously slow, I don’t see the problem them driving under under the limit. There’s a lane to overtake so they’re not impacting anyone else.


Can't always overtake though as people hog the overtaking lane and you end up having to slow down and match the speed of the car infront which is also potentially dangerous.

[Hibs90]

I dont think angry people should drive.

What are you insinuating? I'm not angry at all. It is however frustrating when you come up someone sitting at 45mph and you can't overtake them because other people are lane hogging. If the person infront perhaps upped their speed then it wouldn't even be an issue.

[Moulin Yarns]

What are you insinuating? I'm not angry at all. It is however frustrating when you come up someone sitting at 45mph and you can't overtake them because other people are lane hogging. If the person infront perhaps upped their speed then it wouldn't even be an issue.

Surely it is the drivers in the outside lane that is the issue if they are not overtaking the car going at 45 in the inside lane?

[Northernhibee]

Tossers in traffic jams who start blasting their horns.

[sleeping giant]

What are you insinuating? I'm not angry at all. It is however frustrating when you come up someone sitting at 45mph and you can't overtake them because other people are lane hogging. If the person infront perhaps upped their speed then it wouldn't even be an issue.

I was slightly jesting.
The issue is not with the careful driver ,it's with the outside lane hoggers

[Bangkok Hibby]

Tossers in traffic jams who start blasting their horns.

You ever been to Marrakesh? Hundreds of yards of traffic gridlock and they're leaning on their horns as if it'll make a difference 🥴

[patch1875]

When you enter from a slip road and the car behind flies out to the fast lane to stop you pulling out to overtake.

[matty_f]

The Cramond to Queensferry Crossing road, dual carriageway but inexplicably carries a 40mph limit on for a large part before going to 50.

I’m generally pretty good as adhering to speed limits, but i reckon easily 90% of traffic on that road ignore the speed limit.

[O'Rourke3]

The Cramond to Queensferry Crossing road, dual carriageway but inexplicably carries a 40mph limit on for a large part before going to 50.

I’m generally pretty good as adhering to speed limits, but i reckon easily 90% of traffic on that road ignore the speed limit.If I remember correctly there were additional restrictions through a large number of serious accidents because you can cross both carriageways. Most people were speeding from The Barnton or not slowing off the Motorway. The bit that used to grind my gears was turning the Barnton to Maybury road to single lane till East Craigs.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[Speedy]

When you enter from a slip road and the car behind flies out to the fast lane to stop you pulling out to overtake.

Are people not doing that to give you more space?

[Alfiembra]

If I remember correctly there were additional restrictions through a large number of serious accidents because you can cross both carriageways. Most people were speeding from The Barnton or not slowing off the Motorway. The bit that used to grind my gears was turning the Barnton to Maybury road to single lane till East Craigs.
Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

Got my one and only speeding ticket there many years ago, didn’t pay attention to the signs and thought I was still in the 60 zone caught doing 54 in a 40 limit Really bothered me for a long time after and seriously affected the way I drove afterwards, and not in a good way. I became paranoid about my speed and was so conscious of watching the speedometer when my eyes should have been on the road. Fortunately didn’t have any mishaps but took me many weeks to calm down and relax behind the wheel again.

[McD]

Are people not doing that to give you more space?


I thought he meant the person following down the slip road rather than the person already on the motorway

[Keith_M]

Are people not doing that to give you more space?


:agree:


That was my first thought as well.

[Bangkok Hibby]

I thought he meant the person following down the slip road rather than the person already on the motorway

Me too. Which would make much more sense as a peeve.

[lapsedhibee]

I thought he meant the person following down the slip road rather than the person already on the motorway

:agree:

[patch1875]

I thought he meant the person following down the slip road rather than the person already on the motorway

Yes that’s what I meant maybe didn’t explain it well.😀

You pull onto motorway maybe behind a lorry you go to overtake but the car that followed you on has come straight across and stopped you pulling out.

[Keith_M]

Yes that’s what I meant maybe didn’t explain it well.😀

You pull onto motorway maybe behind a lorry you go to overtake but the car that followed you on has come straight across and stopped you pulling out.


That makes sense


:aok:

[RyeSloan]

Yes that’s what I meant maybe didn’t explain it well.[emoji3]

You pull onto motorway maybe behind a lorry you go to overtake but the car that followed you on has come straight across and stopped you pulling out.

Ahh well if yer not fast yer last [emoji2957]

[overdrive]

Maybe not a peeve but I’ve seen it all now. There seems to be a pedestrian lane on the roundabout at the bottom of Broughton Street

[CropleyWasGod]

Maybe not a peeve but I’ve seen it all now. There seems to be a pedestrian lane on the roundabout at the bottom of Broughton Street

About bloody time. :greengrin

It takes an age to get from one side to the other if you do it legally.

[calumhibee1]

Seen a woman overtake every car in the queue of traffic on the wrong side of the road on Comely Bank today.

Pulled out in front of Waitrose, through one set of lights, to the opening at the Royal Mail sorting office, sat on the wrong side of the road at the red light that had come on, started reversing then went through the red light anyway and then just about crashed into a taxi who was turning right into the bank.

Unreal.

[LaMotta]

What are you insinuating? I'm not angry at all. It is however frustrating when you come up someone sitting at 45mph and you can't overtake them because other people are lane hogging. If the person infront perhaps upped their speed then it wouldn't even be an issue.

:agree: Agree completely with you. Few people giving you stick and saying that everyone should overtake are missing the point that this can then slow down the overtaking lane as well if you have lorries deciding to overtake someone going at 45.

Whilst there is no mimimum speed limit on motorways if the police deem you are driving too slowly then they can pull you over for dangerous driving.

Lorries deciding to overtake someone so they dont have to slow down, but making a string of cars in the overtaking lane slowdown in the process, is one of my pet hates by the way :greengrin

[Moulin Yarns]

:agree: Agree completely with you. Few people giving you stick and saying that everyone should overtake are missing the point that this can then slow down the overtaking lane as well if you have lorries deciding to overtake someone going at 45.

Whilst there is no mimimum speed limit on motorways if the police deem you are driving too slowly then they can pull you over for dangerous driving.

Lorries deciding to overtake someone so they dont have to slow down, but making a string of cars in the overtaking lane slowdown in the process, is one of my pet hates by the way :greengrin

So, it's the slow traffic in the outside lane that is the problem not the car in the inside lane that you think is at fault.

Glad that's cleared up. 😉

[AltheHibby]

Lorries deciding to overtake someone so they dont have to slow down, but making a string of cars in the overtaking lane slowdown in the process, is one of my pet hates by the way :greengrin

It can be fun to let them out when some Audiot behind you is trying to climb into your boot. And when they pull im a nice gentle acceleration past them seals the win. And if said Audiot gestures at you on the way past the day has just become wonderful. 🤣

[LaMotta]

So, it's the slow traffic in the outside lane that is the problem not the car in the inside lane that you think is at fault.

Glad that's cleared up. 😉

No, its quite clearly a combination of the two. :wink:

[LaMotta]

It can be fun to let them out when some Audiot behind you is trying to climb into your boot. And when they pull im a nice gentle acceleration past them seals the win. And if said Audiot gestures at you on the way past the day has just become wonderful. 🤣

Your bizaare behaviour is worse than the "Audiot".

[Moulin Yarns]

No, its quite clearly a combination of the two. :wink:

As a regular driver of the notorious A9, if the driver is driving at 45mph on the dual carriage sections then they are allowing the rest of the traffic to pass, which is the courteous thing to do. 😉

[Bangkok Hibby]

As a regular driver of the notorious A9, if the driver is driving at 45mph on the dual carriage sections then they are allowing the rest of the traffic to pass, which is the courteous thing to do. 😉

I used to drive the A9 regularly and used the dual carriageway sections to pass as many of the slower drivers as I could.

[Moulin Yarns]

I used to drive the A9 regularly and used the dual carriageway sections to pass as many of the slower drivers as I could.

There are currently roadworks to dual the section between Luncarty and Birnam, 40mph through the roadworks, Silverstone on the dual carriageway after the roadworks just now. 😁

[AltheHibby]

Your bizaare behaviour is worse than the "Audiot".

Just teaching them patience and the downside of tailgating even although it holds me up too

[LaMotta]

As a regular driver of the notorious A9, if the driver is driving at 45mph on the dual carriage sections then they are allowing the rest of the traffic to pass, which is the courteous thing to do. ��

Well no its not courteous its actually quite inconsiderate, because a lorry that is limited to 55mph may well feel inclined to overtake the 45mph driver, and therefore a host of cars travelling in the outside lane at 70mph are then held up in the process.:wink:

[Bangkok Hibby]

There are currently roadworks to dual the section between Luncarty and Birnam, 40mph through the roadworks, Silverstone on the dual carriageway after the roadworks just now. 😁

The whole road should have been dualled years ago. Long overdue.

[AltheHibby]

The whole road should have been dualled years ago. Long overdue.

It was supposed to be dualled in the 70's I believe.

[LaMotta]

Just teaching them patience and the downside of tailgating even although it holds me up too

Two wrongs don't make a left:greengrin

[Jack]

The Cramond to Queensferry Crossing road, dual carriageway but inexplicably carries a 40mph limit on for a large part before going to 50.

I’m generally pretty good as adhering to speed limits, but i reckon easily 90% of traffic on that road ignore the speed limit.

I'm on that road a couple of times a week. I've probably seen more unmarked police cars there, having pulled drivers in, than any of the 250 miles I drive a week for my wee part time job around the central belt.

It's maybe a Fifers thing. Apart from Miller and Carter on that road catching Fifers coming in the only other regular camera vans I see are in Fife.

[Hibrandenburg]

Well no its not courteous its actually quite inconsiderate, because a lorry that is limited to 55mph may well feel inclined to overtake the 45mph driver, and therefore a host of cars travelling in the outside lane at 70mph are then held up in the process.:wink:

Truck drivers are not only limited in how fast they are allowed to drive but also how long they can drive and how much rest they have to take. A 10mph difference can make the difference between him making his delivery on time or not or even him/her getting home that day. Everybody moans about trucks on the roads but everyone wants food on the supermarket shelves.

[AltheHibby]

Two wrongs don't make a left:greengrin

True. But I was taught that if someone is tailgating you it's best to slow down. This is my creative interpretation of that.

[McD]

It can be fun to let them out when some Audiot behind you is trying to climb into your boot. And when they pull im a nice gentle acceleration past them seals the win. And if said Audiot gestures at you on the way past the day has just become wonderful. 🤣


if they gesture, I find a smile and a cheery wave is always a good way to defuse things... :greengrin



at least, that’s my intention...:wink:

[Moulin Yarns]

Well no its not courteous its actually quite inconsiderate, because a lorry that is limited to 55mph may well feel inclined to overtake the 45mph driver, and therefore a host of cars travelling in the outside lane at 70mph are then held up in the process.:wink:

Ha, ha. Lorries that don't drive above 55.🤣 What is the speed limit for 15ton trucks on a single carriageway road?

[LaMotta]

Ha, ha. Lorries that don't drive above 55.🤣 What is the speed limit for 15ton trucks on a single carriageway road?

Haha. What are you on about single carriageway roads for? They are of no relevance to anythlng here. :bitchy:

[LaMotta]

Truck drivers are not only limited in how fast they are allowed to drive but also how long they can drive and how much rest they have to take. A 10mph difference can make the difference between him making his delivery on time or not or even him/her getting home that day. Everybody moans about trucks on the roads but everyone wants food on the supermarket shelves.

So you'll agree that if the car driving at 45mph in the inside lane speeds up to a sensible speed then things will improve for everyone.:cb

[Moulin Yarns]

So you'll agree that if the car driving at 45mph in the inside lane speeds up to a sensible speed then things will improve for everyone.:cb

Or make it even harder for everyone else to get past?

[Moulin Yarns]

Haha. What are you on about single carriageway roads for? They are of no relevance to anythlng here. :bitchy:

I asked a simple question, because you would be hard pushed to find any lorries driving within the speed limit for 15ton trucks.

[Moulin Yarns]

Well no its not courteous its actually quite inconsiderate, because a lorry that is limited to 55mph may well feel inclined to overtake the 45mph driver, and therefore a host of cars travelling in the outside lane at 70mph are then held up in the process.:wink:

And then it's the lorry driver who is being inconsiderate 🙄

[Hibrandenburg]

So you'll agree that if the car driving at 45mph in the inside lane speeds up to a sensible speed then things will improve for everyone.:cb

Yes, but I also agree that people should be able to drive within the speed limit according to their personal capabilities, road, weather and traffic conditions.

Someone travelling at 45mph on a dual carriageway is less likely to cause congestion than someone travelling at 58mph.

[Moulin Yarns]

Yes, but I also agree that people should be able to drive within the speed limit according to their personal capabilities, road, weather and traffic conditions.

Someone travelling at 45mph on a dual carriageway is less likely to cause congestion than someone travelling at 58mph.

Exactly this. 👍

[LaMotta]

Or make it even harder for everyone else to get past?

No that is completely illogical. If they speed up to a sensible speed for the inside lane, other cars driving at this speed wont have any need to get past and pull into the outside lane to overtake.

[LaMotta]

I asked a simple question, because you would be hard pushed to find any lorries driving within the speed limit for 15ton trucks.

Well, whatever speed they are going at, it is considerably slower than most cars in the outside lane.

[LaMotta]

Yes, but I also agree that people should be able to drive within the speed limit according to their personal capabilities, road, weather and traffic conditions.

Someone travelling at 45mph on a dual carriageway is less likely to cause congestion than someone travelling at 58mph.


Exactly this. ��

The original post from Dazzling Doidge was about driving too slowly for no reason, so weather and traffic conditions aren't of relevance here because they are good reasons. Your assertion that people should be able to drive within the limit at whatever speed they like based on their driving capabilities though is something I couldn't disagree more with.

Driving too slowly on motorway/ dual carriageway is widely acknowledged as being dangerous ( for a number of reasons) hence why police have ability to warn/fine/ prosecute those who do so for careless or inconsiderate driving. Anyone driving at 45mph for no reason certainly runs the risk of being pulled over by the police, and rightly so as their driving would fall below the standards expected of a competent driver.

[Moulin Yarns]

The original post from Dazzling Doidge was about driving too slowly for no reason, so weather and traffic conditions aren't of relevance here because they are good reasons. Your assertion that people should be able to drive within the limit at whatever speed they like based on their driving capabilities though is something I couldn't disagree more with.

Driving too slowly on motorway/ dual carriageway is widely acknowledged as being dangerous ( for a number of reasons) hence why police have ability to warn/fine/ prosecute those who do so for careless or inconsiderate driving. Anyone driving at 45mph for no reason certainly runs the risk of being pulled over by the police, and rightly so as their driving would fall below the standards expected of a competent driver.

What if they are driving on the Glasgow Road, around Ratho? 😉

[Killiehibbie]

The original post from Dazzling Doidge was about driving too slowly for no reason, so weather and traffic conditions aren't of relevance here because they are good reasons. Your assertion that people should be able to drive within the limit at whatever speed they like based on their driving capabilities though is something I couldn't disagree more with.

Driving too slowly on motorway/ dual carriageway is widely acknowledged as being dangerous ( for a number of reasons) hence why police have ability to warn/fine/ prosecute those who do so for careless or inconsiderate driving. Anyone driving at 45mph for no reason certainly runs the risk of being pulled over by the police, and rightly so as their driving would fall below the standards expected of a competent driver.

Is it ok for me to drive at 56mph on the 70 mph motorway?
Is optimum fuel consumption a good enough reason?

[LaMotta]

What if they are driving on the Glasgow Road, around Ratho? ��

Haha well then they have more chance of being pulled for driving too fast:greengrin

Obviously talking about a 70mph limit though (if it wasnt obvious I apologise :cool2:)

[LaMotta]

Is it ok for me to drive at 56mph on the 70 mph motorway?
Is optimum fuel consumption a good enough reason?

That depends how much you value your time over a few quid saved on fuel :greengrin

[Keith_M]

People driving at low speeds on a dual carriageway or motorway can be overtaken in the outside lane.

That's fine if there's little traffic... but on a busy road, it means that two lanes are now merging into one, which has a knock on effect of slowing down the flow of traffic behind.

This effect is multiplied immensely when there are HGV's, etc trying to overtake, as they're often incapable of reaching the speed limit. This, apparently, is one of the causes of so-called 'phantom motorway tailbacks', where slow moving traffic and delays happen for no obvious reason.


(this is from one of my relatives that used to be in L&B Police, who also said it's policy to warn and/or fine motorists persisting at low speeds on the motorway for no good reason)

[Moulin Yarns]

That depends how much you value your time over a few quid saved on fuel :greengrin

Studies, and personal experience, show that over a typical 30 mile drive on mixed roads, the car that flew past you on the dual carriageway half way is only 3 or 4 cars ahead of you at the next set of traffic lights.

Assume that you could drive from Edinburgh to Inverness at a constant 60mph before the A9 is dualled it would take 2 hours 44 minutes. Then assume once it is dualled you drive at a constant 70mph, it will take 2 hours 21 minutes. The 10mph faster has saved you a whole 23 minutes. Hardly worth the effort.

[Peevemor]

Studies, and personal experience, show that over a typical 30 mile drive on mixed roads, the car that flew past you on the dual carriageway half way is only 3 or 4 cars ahead of you at the next set of traffic lights.

Assume that you could drive from Edinburgh to Inverness at a constant 60mph before the A9 is dualled it would take 2 hours 44 minutes. Then assume once it is dualled you drive at a constant 70mph, it will take 2 hours 21 minutes. The 10mph faster has saved you a whole 23 minutes. Hardly worth the effort.

I don't bother pushing it during my 10 mile drive to work for exactly that reason. Overtaking can make a big difference though.

[Moulin Yarns]

https://learn.eartheasy.com/guides/fuel-efficient-driving/

Speed versus fuel efficiency.

As an aside, what make and model of car was the one that was driving at 45mph on the dual carriageway?

It might well have been an electric vehicle and the driver was concerned about the range. I have passed electric cars on motorways that are cruising along about 50mph in the inside lane, not causing any problems.

[RyeSloan]

Studies, and personal experience, show that over a typical 30 mile drive on mixed roads, the car that flew past you on the dual carriageway half way is only 3 or 4 cars ahead of you at the next set of traffic lights.

Assume that you could drive from Edinburgh to Inverness at a constant 60mph before the A9 is dualled it would take 2 hours 44 minutes. Then assume once it is dualled you drive at a constant 70mph, it will take 2 hours 21 minutes. The 10mph faster has saved you a whole 23 minutes. Hardly worth the effort.

The point is that on a road that is not a dual carriageway and is the main artery then you can never do your hypothetical constant 60mph.

It’s clearly easier and safer and faster on the M9 stretch up to Perth than it is from the A9 onwards from there.

The A9 for the type of traffic it carries should, and needs to be, more than a single track road.

[Moulin Yarns]

The point is that on a road that is not a dual carriageway and is the main artery then you can never do your hypothetical constant 60mph.

It’s clearly easier and safer and faster on the M9 stretch up to Perth than it is from the A9 onwards from there.

The A9 for the type of traffic it carries should, and needs to be, more than a single track road.

https://www.transport.gov.scot/projects/a9-dualling-perth-to-inverness/

Fortunately for you, the SNP Scottish Government agrees that the A9 needs to be dual carriageway and work is underway north of Luncarty and other contracts are already awarded. 👍

[LaMotta]

People driving at low speeds on a dual carriageway or motorway can be overtaken in the outside lane.

That's fine if there's little traffic... but on a busy road, it means that two lanes are now merging into one, which has a knock on effect of slowing down the flow of traffic behind.

This effect is multiplied immensely when there are HGV's, etc trying to overtake, as they're often incapable of reaching the speed limit. This, apparently, is one of the causes of so-called 'phantom motorway tailbacks', where slow moving traffic and delays happen for no obvious reason.


(this is from one of my relatives that used to be in L&B Police, who also said it's policy to warn and/or fine motorists persisting at low speeds on the motorway for no good reason)

:agree: An excellent explanation here :aok:

[LaMotta]

Studies, and personal experience, show that over a typical 30 mile drive on mixed roads, the car that flew past you on the dual carriageway half way is only 3 or 4 cars ahead of you at the next set of traffic lights.

Assume that you could drive from Edinburgh to Inverness at a constant 60mph before the A9 is dualled it would take 2 hours 44 minutes. Then assume once it is dualled you drive at a constant 70mph, it will take 2 hours 21 minutes. The 10mph faster has saved you a whole 23 minutes. Hardly worth the effort.

I've regularly had to drive across Scotland for work from various mtgs to other mtgs and I can assure you that even shaving 10 minutes off a journey can sometimes be vital and worth the effort. :greengrin (Covid has put an end to much of this due to normalisation of online mtgs now)

So again, depends on how important time is to an individual.

[LaMotta]

https://learn.eartheasy.com/guides/fuel-efficient-driving/

Speed versus fuel efficiency.

As an aside, what make and model of car was the one that was driving at 45mph on the dual carriageway?

It might well have been an electric vehicle and the driver was concerned about the range. I have passed electric cars on motorways that are cruising along about 50mph in the inside lane, not causing any problems.

Considerate and careful driving trumps fuel efficiency:cb

[Moulin Yarns]

Considerate and careful driving trumps fuel efficiency:cb

Both are not mutually exclusive though, which is why being aware of other road users, regardless of how they drive is better than getting angry because they are not going as fast as you.

[LaMotta]

Both are not mutually exclusive though, which is why being aware of other road users, regardless of how they drive is better than getting angry because they are not going as fast as you.

People arent getting angry at the driver for not going as fast as them. People (including the police ) will get peeved at someone driving at 45mph in a 70 limit because its potentially dangerous and also inconsiderate. Being ( a little bit) angry at that is fine I think.

[Moulin Yarns]

People arent getting angry at the driver for not going as fast as them. People (including the police ) will get peeved at someone driving at 45mph in a 70 limit because its potentially dangerous and also inconsiderate. Being ( a little bit) angry at that is fine I think.

And what about the scenario involving the electric vehicle that I have witnessed. Range anxiety on the motorway when the driver has to be driving carefully to ensure that they reach a charging point? Would you rather they drive in such a way that they will run out of charge and become a hazard?

[overdrive]

And what about the scenario involving the electric vehicle that I have witnessed. Range anxiety on the motorway when the driver has to be driving carefully to ensure that they reach a charging point? Would you rather they drive in such a way that they will run out of charge and become a hazard?

They shouldn’t set out on the journey without enough charge, I would argue. That’s why I think the technology has to improve on electric cars before they become more mainstream.

[Moulin Yarns]

They shouldn’t set out on the journey without enough charge, I would argue. That’s why I think the technology has to improve on electric cars before they become more mainstream.

That's pretty much what I would do, but you can rarely get the manufacturers claimed range with so many different variables. Unless you drive cautiously to maximise your range, a bit like a full tank of fuel will also take you further the more carefully you drive, again, the chance of getting the manufacturer claimed mileage is practically impossible. The distance between service areas on some motorways can be a fair distance.

Anyway, this has run its course, a driver doing 45mph on a dual carriageway has as much right to be there and other drivers should know how to avoid getting caught behind them. Driver awareness. Think ahead.

[lapsedhibee]

(this is from one of my relatives that used to be in L&B Police, who also said it's policy to warn and/or fine motorists persisting at low speeds on the motorway for no good reason)

It would be good to know what L&B considered too low. 45? Or 30? :dunno:

[LaMotta]

It would be good to know what L&B considered too low. 45? Or 30? :dunno:

That's a good question, I understand its up to Police interpretation of a situation. That said, a number of driving instructors online suggest that you should drive as close to the speed limit as possible in a 70 limit, and certainly no slower than 50.


That's pretty much what I would do, but you can rarely get the manufacturers claimed range with so many different variables. Unless you drive cautiously to maximise your range, a bit like a full tank of fuel will also take you further the more carefully you drive, again, the chance of getting the manufacturer claimed mileage is practically impossible. The distance between service areas on some motorways can be a fair distance.

Anyway, this has run its course, a driver doing 45mph on a dual carriageway has as much right to be there and other drivers should know how to avoid getting caught behind them. Driver awareness. Think ahead.

Final point - it worries me a bit that you are still coming to this conclusion when driving at that speed in a 70 can be dangerous and could lead to a Police fine. I'm out now.

[Moulin Yarns]

That's a good question, I understand its up to Police interpretation of a situation. That said, a number of driving instructors online suggest that you should drive as close to the speed limit as possible in a 70 limit, and certainly no slower than 50.



Final point - it worries me a bit that you are still coming to this conclusion when driving at that speed in a 70 can be dangerous and could lead to a Police fine. I'm out now.

Safer than a driver doing 45mph in a 30 zone. If other drivers are not aware of what is going on around them then they are as much of a problem :agree:

[speedy_gonzales]

Re acceptable driving speeds on roads. I sat my motorbike test 10 years after my car test. The motorbike test was much more intensive, and beside training you to pass the test, they trained you to stay alive.
My instructor, who was ex-Police, told me it was standard practice to drive between the posted limit and the one below if conditions allowed.
So, on a motorway, you'd be between 60 & 70. Dual carriageway the same, single carriageway 50-60, a posted 40 limit would be 30-40 and obviously below 30 for urban areas (putting 20's to one side).
I was taught, for my test, to exaggerate the acknowledgment of speed limit changes for the benefit of the DSA examiner. So big visual look at the speed roundels, then a marked increase or decrease of speed to demonstrate an awareness of the posted limit.
Re cars that seem to crawl at a very low speed relative to those around them, they may well have a valid reason but ignoring any perceived inconvenience to other road users, they're just inviting some pernickty traffic cop to give them a tug to ask them if they "know the speed limit".

[Moulin Yarns]

That's a good question, I understand its up to Police interpretation of a situation. That said, a number of driving instructors online suggest that you should drive as close to the speed limit as possible in a 70 limit, and certainly no slower than 50.



Final point - it worries me a bit that you are still coming to this conclusion when driving at that speed in a 70 can be dangerous and could lead to a Police fine. I'm out now.

Final point - if someone is going at 45mph, there might be a reason, mechanical, physical or other reason.

If you, doing 70ish, don't notice the other driver, doing 45ish, and run into the rear of the car, who do you think would face prosecution?

[Peevemor]

Re acceptable driving speeds on roads. I sat my motorbike test 10 years after my car test. The motorbike test was much more intensive, and beside training you to pass the test, they trained you to stay alive.
My instructor, who was ex-Police, told me it was standard practice to drive between the posted limit and the one below if conditions allowed.
So, on a motorway, you'd be between 60 & 70. Dual carriageway the same, single carriageway 50-60, a posted 40 limit would be 30-40 and obviously below 30 for urban areas (putting 20's to one side).
I was taught, for my test, to exaggerate the acknowledgment of speed limit changes for the benefit of the DSA examiner. So big visual look at the speed roundels, then a marked increase or decrease of speed to demonstrate an awareness of the posted limit.
Re cars that seem to crawl at a very low speed relative to those around them, they may well have a valid reason but ignoring any perceived inconvenience to other road users, they're just inviting some pernickty traffic cop to give them a tug to ask them if they "know the speed limit".

Standard practice? I generally drive at our round about the speed limit and it's rare that I overtake a motorbike.

[Keith_M]

It would be good to know what L&B considered too low. 45? Or 30? :dunno:


Sorry, I can't remember exactly what he said about that.


But this is apparently the advice given out:

"Many people are nervous when driving on motorways due to the volume of traffic and the high speeds. Such drivers may tend to drive a little slower than the maximum speed limit of 70 mph.

Anywhere between 50 mph and 70 mph is acceptable although any slower, you would yourself become a hazard and increase the potential of being involved in an accident or creating an accident for others.

If you do feel the need to drive excessively slow on a motorway, if possible find an alternative route that eliminates such high speed roads."

https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/minimum-speed-limits-driving-too-slow.html


(p.s. I added the bold highlights)

[speedy_gonzales]

Standard practice? I generally drive at our round about the speed limit and it's rare that I overtake a motorbike.

Well, if the bike is doing the speed limit, you won't 😕
My point, perhaps poorly put forward is that we were getting trained to drive towards the speed limit of conditions allowed.

[Peevemor]

Well, if the bike is doing the speed limit, you won't [emoji53]
My point, perhaps poorly put forward is that we were getting trained to drive towards the speed limit of conditions allowed.Sorry, I understood that you were told the standard practice was to sit below the speed limit.

[speedy_gonzales]

Sorry, I understood that you were told the standard practice was to sit below the speed limit.

Ahhh, like I said, probably poorly written on my behalf.
We were told to ride at the "speed band" between the posted limit and the next recognised limit down.
Obviously many folk, including bikers, exceed the posted limit (a couple of SP30's and an SP50 is testament to that) but the message was not to sit at 45 in a 60 or 70 if conditions allow you to make progress, faster.

[lapsedhibee]

Sorry, I can't remember exactly what he said about that.


But this is apparently the advice given out:

"Many people are nervous when driving on motorways due to the volume of traffic and the high speeds. Such drivers may tend to drive a little slower than the maximum speed limit of 70 mph.

Anywhere between 50 mph and 70 mph is acceptable although any slower, you would yourself become a hazard and increase the potential of being involved in an accident or creating an accident for others.

If you do feel the need to drive excessively slow on a motorway, if possible find an alternative route that eliminates such high speed roads."

https://www.drivingtesttips.biz/minimum-speed-limits-driving-too-slow.html

(p.s. I added the bold highlights)

:aok:

[LaMotta]

Safer than a driver doing 45mph in a 30 zone. If other drivers are not aware of what is going on around them then they are as much of a problem :agree:

I think this as close as we'll get to you admitting that you have got this one one wrong.


Final point - if someone is going at 45mph, there might be a reason, mechanical, physical or other reason.

If you, doing 70ish, don't notice the other driver, doing 45ish, and run into the rear of the car, who do you think would face prosecution?

Absolutely the person in the car driving at 45 either because the car is unfit to drive or they are physically unfit to drive competently. You are really going round in circles on this one.

Its ok to just say that actually cars shouldn't be driving at 45mph. Keith's post confirms that:aok:

[calumhibee1]

Re acceptable driving speeds on roads. I sat my motorbike test 10 years after my car test. The motorbike test was much more intensive, and beside training you to pass the test, they trained you to stay alive.
My instructor, who was ex-Police, told me it was standard practice to drive between the posted limit and the one below if conditions allowed.
So, on a motorway, you'd be between 60 & 70. Dual carriageway the same, single carriageway 50-60, a posted 40 limit would be 30-40 and obviously below 30 for urban areas (putting 20's to one side).
I was taught, for my test, to exaggerate the acknowledgment of speed limit changes for the benefit of the DSA examiner. So big visual look at the speed roundels, then a marked increase or decrease of speed to demonstrate an awareness of the posted limit.
Re cars that seem to crawl at a very low speed relative to those around them, they may well have a valid reason but ignoring any perceived inconvenience to other road users, they're just inviting some pernickty traffic cop to give them a tug to ask them if they "know the speed limit".

That is the case.

It’s not enforced as strictly as speeding is for obvious reasons but you’re expected to drive pretty much no less than 10mph below the speed limit as you’ve said. If you are doing less than that (although apparently it would need to be a good bit less to realistically get pulled over) then you should be getting pulled for it. Reason being, as others have said, it’s dangerous.

[Moulin Yarns]

I think this as close as we'll get to you admitting that you have got this one one wrong.



Absolutely the person in the car driving at 45 either because the car is unfit to drive or they are physically unfit to drive competently. You are really going round in circles on this one.

Its ok to just say that actually cars shouldn't be driving at 45mph. Keith's post confirms that:aok:

You do realise that things can go wrong on the journey. My car had been in for a service, on the way home, on a single carriageway section of the A9 it decided to enter 'limp home mode'. I have also asked the question whether it is possible that the car in question was electric and needed to conserve range.

Feel free to drive as fast as possible and ram the back of any car going slower, I'm sure you'll feel better for it. 🙄

[LaMotta]

You do realise that things can go wrong on the journey. My car had been in for a service, on the way home, on a single carriageway section of the A9 it decided to enter 'limp home mode'. I have also asked the question whether it is possible that the car in question was electric and needed to conserve range.

Feel free to drive as fast as possible and ram the back of any car going slower, I'm sure you'll feel better for it. ��


Jesus, Joseph, Mary and the wee donkey, as pointed out already the original post was about people driving too slowly for no reason. To which you have indicated that you think its acceptable to do so without reason.

If there is a valid reason then thats not ideal but understandable. I dont think however that either of your reasons are very good ones. If your car is trundling along you'd be better finding a safe space to pull over and calling breakdown recovery rather than remaining a hazard in the road. Anyone driving electric cars and not knowing how much charge they have in relation to a journey should not be driving.

Your last sentence is absolutely laughable - poor stuff. I really dont understand why sometimes people can't just admit they are wrong.:confused:

[Moulin Yarns]

Jesus, Joseph, Mary and the wee donkey, as pointed out already the original post was about people driving too slowly for no reason. To which you have indicated that you think its acceptable to do so without reason.

If there is a valid reason then thats not ideal but understandable. I dont think however that either of your reasons are very good ones. If your car is trundling along you'd be better finding a safe space to pull over and calling breakdown recovery rather than remaining a hazard in the road. Anyone driving electric cars and not knowing how much charge they have in relation to a journey should not be driving.

Your last sentence is absolutely laughable - poor stuff. I really dont understand why sometimes people can't just admit they are wrong.:confused:

I'd like to know how the OP could tell the car was being driven at 45mph "for no reason" did they ask? I'm pretty sure any car, regardless of speed is being driven for a reason. 😁

[Moulin Yarns]

Haha. What are you on about single carriageway roads for? They are of no relevance to anythlng here. :bitchy:

Eh!!! This is the driving pet peeves thread. Of course single carriageway roads are relevant 🤔

[AltheHibby]

I think this as close as we'll get to you admitting that you have got this one one wrong.



Absolutely the person in the car driving at 45 either because the car is unfit to drive or they are physically unfit to drive competently. You are really going round in circles on this one.

Its ok to just say that actually cars shouldn't be driving at 45mph. Keith's post confirms that:aok:

Actually, I believe in the UK that the presumption is that the person who runs into the other is to blame; so the person going at 70. Also, from watching TV, I think that 'failing to maintain a safe gap', or similar wording is a specific offence down under.

[LaMotta]

Eh!!! This is the driving pet peeves thread. Of course single carriageway roads are relevant 🤔

It was completely irrelevant to the point you were responding to though. :na na:

[LaMotta]

Actually, I believe in the UK that the presumption is that the person who runs into the other is to blame; so the person going at 70. Also, from watching TV, I think that 'failing to maintain a safe gap', or similar wording is a specific offence down under.

Yeah usually ( but not always). It wouldn't change the fact that if you drive too slow without good reason then you are in the wrong.

[Northernhibee]

Every ****ing time at the same roundabout before the Tay Bridge someone cuts into your lane in front of you and slams on the brakes in your own braking zone so they can be one car in front. Dangerous and moronic.

[Moulin Yarns]

Yeah usually ( but not always). It wouldn't change the fact that if you drive too slow without good reason then you are in the wrong.

But, here is the point, you and I are not arbiters of what is "driving too slow without good reason"

Remember, this is on a dual carriageway and the first time anyone is aware of the car is when you see that you are gaining on them, you have no idea what has happened in the moments beforehand and that they are possibly driving to the next lay-by.

We can't prejudge the action of others without knowing all the facts. All I'm trying to say is that you and I have no idea what the circumstances were and should give the driver the benefit of the doubt.

[danhibees1875]

Yes that’s what I meant maybe didn’t explain it well.😀

You pull onto motorway maybe behind a lorry you go to overtake but the car that followed you on has come straight across and stopped you pulling out.

Funnily enough, I came on to post this - well mine was slightly worse (obviously :greengrin ) I think.

Coming up a slip road and there was a big lorry coming down the slow lane so I slowed down a tad to time it so that I could pull in behind the lorry before I ran out of slip road in front of me.

The lorry gets up along side me and the car behind me decides to dart out immediately behind the lorry (didn't/couldn't then immediately proceed to the fast lane either) leaving me with no road to get on to and having to slow down further before then getting on to the main road at a much reduced speed.

I'm usually pretty calm and just laugh off a lot of the stuff I see on the roads/the sort of stuff that's posted on here - but that felt like it could have endangered me and I lost it with them (well, I shouted at my window in their direction :greengrin ).

[Scouse Hibee]

People who run temporary red lights into a single file traffic and meet the traffic head on with nowhere to manoeuvre apart from in reverse, absolute ****wits.

[Hibrandenburg]

Yeah usually ( but not always). It wouldn't change the fact that if you drive too slow without good reason then you are in the wrong.

Maybe, just maybe partially to blame. I don't think driving 40 would fall into that category though.

[AltheHibby]

Maybe, just maybe partially to blame. I don't think driving 40 would fall into that category though.

The thing is, the police would look at it as you going too fast and not able to slow in time. I was taught that you should be able to stop in the distance you can see. That's why we slow down on bends and in fog. There's no getting away from the fact that whatever reason someone is going slow, you shouldn't run into them under normal circumstances.

[AltheHibby]

Source:https://www.drivingtestsuccess.com/blog/safe-separation-distance


"Always know your limitations, and remember that: “Only a fool breaks the 2-second rule.”

Multiple collisions or pile-ups are caused by driving too close and too fast, which leads to drivers being unable to brake in time. You can avoid this by looking well forward, checking how the traffic is performing, getting clues from large vehicles, looking for buses pulling in and out, taxis stopping and turning, junctions and pedestrians."

And:

"Plus, if you hit the car in front of you, you are considered to blame. You have no choice as to the space left behind you, but you can control the amount of space in front".

[Moulin Yarns]

Source:https://www.drivingtestsuccess.com/blog/safe-separation-distance


"Always know your limitations, and remember that: “Only a fool breaks the 2-second rule.”

Multiple collisions or pile-ups are caused by driving too close and too fast, which leads to drivers being unable to brake in time. You can avoid this by looking well forward, checking how the traffic is performing, getting clues from large vehicles, looking for buses pulling in and out, taxis stopping and turning, junctions and pedestrians."

And:

"Plus, if you hit the car in front of you, you are considered to blame. You have no choice as to the space left behind you, but you can control the amount of space in front".

Ah yes, remember the 2 second rule, let the car in front pass an identifiable point, count 1 pink elephant, 2 pink elephant and if you are past the point you are too close. I wonder if people still learn these things. Somehow I doubt it. 😉

[Alfiembra]

Ah yes, remember the 2 second rule, let the car in front pass an identifiable point, count 1 pink elephant, 2 pink elephant and if you are past the point you are too close. I wonder if people still learn these things. Somehow I doubt it. 😉

I’ll see your pink elephants and raise you 1 Mississippi 2 Mississippi. :na na:

[Moulin Yarns]

I’ll see your pink elephants and raise you 1 Mississippi 2 Mississippi. :na na:

When I learned to drive there were no breathalysers 😉

[Hibrandenburg]

The thing is, the police would look at it as you going too fast and not able to slow in time. I was taught that you should be able to stop in the distance you can see. That's why we slow down on bends and in fog. There's no getting away from the fact that whatever reason someone is going slow, you shouldn't run into them under normal circumstances.

Same can be said for hitting something that's not moving. If you hit a broken down car for example, then chances are you'll get done for careless driving and rightly so.

[Hibrandenburg]

Source:https://www.drivingtestsuccess.com/blog/safe-separation-distance


"Always know your limitations, and remember that: “Only a fool breaks the 2-second rule.”

Multiple collisions or pile-ups are caused by driving too close and too fast, which leads to drivers being unable to brake in time. You can avoid this by looking well forward, checking how the traffic is performing, getting clues from large vehicles, looking for buses pulling in and out, taxis stopping and turning, junctions and pedestrians."

And:

"Plus, if you hit the car in front of you, you are considered to blame. You have no choice as to the space left behind you, but you can control the amount of space in front".

In Germany you get taught that braking distance in meters is calculated by speed in kmh ÷ 10 × speed in kmh ÷ 10. For example if you're travelling at 100kmh then your braking distance should be 100m (100÷10) × (100÷10) = 100m.

[Moulin Yarns]

In Germany you get taught that braking distance in meters is calculated by speed in kmh ÷ 10 × speed in kmh ÷ 10. For example if you're travelling at 100kmh then your braking distance should be 100m (100÷10) × (100÷10) = 100m.

Another benefit of the EU, how the fuch do you calculate that in miles per hour 🙄

[danhibees1875]

In Germany you get taught that braking distance in meters is calculated by speed in kmh ÷ 10 × speed in kmh ÷ 10. For example if you're travelling at 100kmh then your braking distance should be 100m (100÷10) × (100÷10) = 100m.

"So why did you crash?"

"I was reaching into the back seat for my calculator"

[LaMotta]

Maybe, just maybe partially to blame. I don't think driving 40 would fall into that category though.

It does though - see posts from others on police views.


The thing is, the police would look at it as you going too fast and not able to slow in time. I was taught that you should be able to stop in the distance you can see. That's why we slow down on bends and in fog. There's no getting away from the fact that whatever reason someone is going slow, you shouldn't run into them under normal circumstances.


Source:https://www.drivingtestsuccess.com/blog/safe-separation-distance


"Always know your limitations, and remember that: “Only a fool breaks the 2-second rule.”

Multiple collisions or pile-ups are caused by driving too close and too fast, which leads to drivers being unable to brake in time. You can avoid this by looking well forward, checking how the traffic is performing, getting clues from large vehicles, looking for buses pulling in and out, taxis stopping and turning, junctions and pedestrians."

And:

"Plus, if you hit the car in front of you, you are considered to blame. You have no choice as to the space left behind you, but you can control the amount of space in front".


Ah yes, remember the 2 second rule, let the car in front pass an identifiable point, count 1 pink elephant, 2 pink elephant and if you are past the point you are too close. I wonder if people still learn these things. Somehow I doubt it. 😉


Same can be said for hitting something that's not moving. If you hit a broken down car for example, then chances are you'll get done for careless driving and rightly so.


Of course if someone drives too quickly they can be to blame as well. Nothing in any of these posts changes the fact that driving too slow is dangerous:cb

[Moulin Yarns]

It does though - see posts from others on police views.

Of course if someone drives too quickly they can be to blame as well. Nothing in any of these posts changes the fact that driving too slow is dangerous:cb

And nothing alters the fact if someone driving faster can't anticipate the slower driver then they are more dangerous.

Nothing alters the fact that neither you, nor I, will know the reason for the driver going slower than you want, so maybe you should ask yourself, 'I wonder if they are in trouble'?

[Moulin Yarns]

But, here is the point, you and I are not arbiters of what is "driving too slow without good reason"

Remember, this is on a dual carriageway and the first time anyone is aware of the car is when you see that you are gaining on them, you have no idea what has happened in the moments beforehand and that they are possibly driving to the next lay-by.

We can't prejudge the action of others without knowing all the facts. All I'm trying to say is that you and I have no idea what the circumstances were and should give the driver the benefit of the doubt.

Funny how Ray missed this one in his multi reply 🤔

[Hibrandenburg]

It does though - see posts from others on police views.

Anecdotal stories on Hibs net are not really a smoking gun, are they? Facts are that there are no laws governing slow driving on motorways or dual carriagewas, yes in some circumstances slow driving will draw the attention of the police and yes slow driving can be a contributing factor to an accident, but I'd wager there has never been an accident where it was deemed to be the sole cause. Blaming a slow moving vehicle is like blaming rain or snow for causing an accident, it's nonsense and they're at most contributing factors.

[lord bunberry]

I drive everywhere at the speed limit and occasionally over it on a motorway. The 70mph speed limit is a nonsense considering it’s calculated by braking distance, cars have evolved hugely since the speed limit was calculated and they aren’t credible anymore.

[O'Rourke3]

Source:https://www.drivingtestsuccess.com/blog/safe-separation-distance


"Always know your limitations, and remember that: “Only a fool breaks the 2-second rule.”

Multiple collisions or pile-ups are caused by driving too close and too fast, which leads to drivers being unable to brake in time. You can avoid this by looking well forward, checking how the traffic is performing, getting clues from large vehicles, looking for buses pulling in and out, taxis stopping and turning, junctions and pedestrians."

And:

"Plus, if you hit the car in front of you, you are considered to blame. You have no choice as to the space left behind you, but you can control the amount of space in front".My peeve here is leaving a safe stopping distance and the asses that pull in and close the ****** gap.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk

[lord bunberry]

My peeve here is leaving a safe stopping distance and the asses that pull in and close the ****** gap.

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
That happens all the time, it really annoys me.

[Peevemor]

That happens all the time, it really annoys me.Or people that overtake you on an empty dual carriageway in pissing rain and pull in just in front of you and splatter your windscreen with crap.

[LaMotta]

And nothing alters the fact if someone driving faster can't anticipate the slower driver then they are more dangerous.

Nothing alters the fact that neither you, nor I, will know the reason for the driver going slower than you want, so maybe you should ask yourself, 'I wonder if they are in trouble'?


2 points here.

No-one is here claiming that someone driving too fast and carelessly isn't dangerous. On the other hand you are bizzarely trying to claim that driving too slow isn't dangerous.

Secondly, even if there is a valid reason for driving at snails pace on a 70mph limit ( of which there really aren't many valid reasons) , it STILL remains a dangerous act, if there is a reason or not.

I think you need to ask yourself why you are continuing to deny this.

[LaMotta]

Anecdotal stories on Hibs net are not really a smoking gun, are they? Facts are that there are no laws governing slow driving on motorways or dual carriagewas, yes in some circumstances slow driving will draw the attention of the police and yes slow driving can be a contributing factor to an accident, but I'd wager there has never been an accident where it was deemed to be the sole cause. Blaming a slow moving vehicle is like blaming rain or snow for causing an accident, it's nonsense and they're at most contributing factors.

So we should ignore anecdotal evidence from Police friends of those on Hibs.net, but instead trust the gut instincts of 2 posters on Hibs.net who just have a feeling that its ok to drive at any speed you like in a 70:hilarious

And then you say that you'd wager there has never been an accident where slow driving was the sole cause? Based on what? Your gut?

In 2019 there were 26 serious injuries and 2 deaths in the UK where slow driving was a contributing factor - source Dept for Transport. So to be clear, slow driving has actually contributed towards the death of people. Are you still going to tell me that its ok for people to drive as slow as they like?

I actually think your posts on this are quite irresponsible.

[Moulin Yarns]

So we should ignore anecdotal evidence from Police friends of those on Hibs.net, but instead trust the gut instincts of 2 posters on Hibs.net who just have a feeling that its ok to drive at any speed you like in a 70:hilarious

And then you say that you'd wager there has never been an accident where slow driving was the sole cause? Based on what? Your gut?

In 2019 there were 26 serious injuries and 2 deaths in the UK where slow driving was a contributing factor - source Dept for Transport. So to be clear, slow driving has actually contributed towards the death of people. Are you still going to tell me that its ok for people to drive as slow as they like?

I actually think your posts on this are quite irresponsible.

For comparison can you tell us the figures for serious injury and deaths by speed. No point in getting one set of figures to help your 'argument' without balance now, is there? 🤔

Just looked. Your stats account for 0.001% of the total casualty figure for the year to June 2019.

[Moulin Yarns]

But, here is the point, you and I are not arbiters of what is "driving too slow without good reason"

Remember, this is on a dual carriageway and the first time anyone is aware of the car is when you see that you are gaining on them, you have no idea what has happened in the moments beforehand and that they are possibly driving to the next lay-by.

We can't prejudge the action of others without knowing all the facts. All I'm trying to say is that you and I have no idea what the circumstances were and should give the driver the benefit of the doubt.

Well? Any comment Mr LaMotta?

[LaMotta]

For comparison can you tell us the figures for serious injury and deaths by speed. No point in getting one set of figures to help your 'argument' without balance now, is there? ��

Just looked. Your stats account for 0.001% of the total casualty figure for the year to June 2019.

Are you deliberately being this obtuse for a reason? Like seriously? You MUST be on the wind up? :tee hee: I can't actually believe im having to explain this.

The comparison with people going too fast is completely irrelevant because nobody, not one person, is making irresponsible claims that driving too fast and carelessly is not dangerous. Its not a part of my argument. How can't you see that?:faf:

It changes nothing about the fact that slow driving can be dangerous. Wake up man ffs!

[Hibrandenburg]

So we should ignore anecdotal evidence from Police friends of those on Hibs.net, but instead trust the gut instincts of 2 posters on Hibs.net who just have a feeling that its ok to drive at any speed you like in a 70:hilarious

And then you say that you'd wager there has never been an accident where slow driving was the sole cause? Based on what? Your gut?

In 2019 there were 26 serious injuries and 2 deaths in the UK where slow driving was a contributing factor - source Dept for Transport. So to be clear, slow driving has actually contributed towards the death of people. Are you still going to tell me that its ok for people to drive as slow as they like?

I actually think your posts on this are quite irresponsible.

And I think your posts are pretty silly. In 2019 there were 1,926 road deaths in the UK and you claim that 2, yes 2 of those deaths had slow driving as a CONTRIBUTING factor. 2 deaths is the average amount of deaths that happen that are DIRECTLY contributed to lightning strikes per year in the UK. Now each death is tragic but claiming that 2 deaths caused by slow driving being a CONTRIBUTING factor is a cause for concern is nuts. More than likely the main reason for those 2 deaths will be for other reasons like the drivers hitting those cars driving slowly not driving with due care and attention. Like I mentioned earlier, if someone drives into a stationary car on the motorway then the blame lies mainly with them for not having their car under control or not driving with due care and attention and the stationary car is merely a contributing factor in the accident.

And yes I do tend to ignore anecdotal evidence because it's meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

[LaMotta]

And I think your posts are pretty silly. In 2019 there were 1,926 road deaths in the UK and you claim that 2, yes 2 of those deaths had slow driving as a CONTRIBUTING factor. 2 deaths is the average amount of deaths that happen that are DIRECTLY contributed to lightning strikes per year in the UK. Now each death is tragic but claiming that 2 deaths caused by slow driving being a CONTRIBUTING factor is a cause for concern is nuts. More than likely the main reason for those 2 deaths will be for other reasons like the drivers hitting those cars driving slowly not driving with due care and attention. Like I mentioned earlier, if someone drives into a stationary car on the motorway then the blame lies mainly with them for not having their car under control or not driving with due care and attention and the stationary car is merely a contributing factor in the accident.

And yes I do tend to ignore anecdotal evidence because it's meaningless in the grand scheme of things.

Your posts are actually a disgrace.

26 people were seriously injured and 2 people died in a year due to people driving too slowly - the fact you think that is acceptable is disgusting. Thankfully the police don't agree.

[Danderhall Hibs]

In Germany you get taught that braking distance in meters is calculated by speed in kmh ÷ 10 × speed in kmh ÷ 10. For example if you're travelling at 100kmh then your braking distance should be 100m (100÷10) × (100÷10) = 100m.

Why do the sum? If 100kmh = 100m then why bother multiplying and dividing.

[Danderhall Hibs]

Another benefit of the EU, how the fuch do you calculate that in miles per hour 🙄

Multiply by 5 and divide by 8.

[Hibrandenburg]

Your posts are actually a disgrace.

26 people were seriously injured and 2 people died in a year due to people driving too slowly - the fact you think that is acceptable is disgusting. Thankfully the police don't agree.

Disgrace :faf: There are no default minimum speed limits on motorways or dual carriageways. There are some laws however that govern what types of vehicles can travel on motorways, motorbikes and scooters under 50cc are one example. These vehicles are restricted to 30mph which would suggest that 31mph is acceptable.

[Hibrandenburg]

Why do the sum? If 100kmh = 100m then why bother multiplying and dividing.

I used 100kph as an easy example. If you're travelling at 80, then the braking distance would be 80÷10 × 80÷10 = 64m. There's also the thumb rule that if you double your speed then you quadruple the breaking distance.

[Rocky]

People who drive at 45mph on a two lane motorway are an absolute pain in the jacksie and effectively reduce a two lane carriageway into a single lane for the majority as everyone has to funnel into a single lane to pass them. People who are prepared to spend dozens of posts defending them are almost certainly people I don't want to be anywhere near on the roads.

[LaMotta]

Funny how Ray missed this one in his multi reply 🤔

You've posted that much irrelevant nonsense on this thread, it was quite easy to miss.


Well? Any comment Mr LaMotta?

We can't know for sure if there is a valid reason I agree, but there really is very little reason for driving at low speeds, so I don't think giving the benefit of the doubt to the driver is sensible. Either way, the crux of this entire argument is that earlier you indicated that people should be able to drive within the limit at whatever speed they like based on their driving capabilities. Do you stand by that view? If you do, I'm worried.

[Hibrandenburg]

People who drive at 45mph on a two lane motorway are an absolute pain in the jacksie and effectively reduce a two lane carriageway into a single lane for the majority as everyone has to funnel into a single lane to pass them. People who are prepared to spend dozens of posts defending them are almost certainly people I don't want to be anywhere near on the roads.

Same can be said for any speed under 70. And likewise, people who get upset by grandad on Sunday taking his car for a spin and aren't capable of accepting that not all road users are of equal mental and physical capabilities are not the kind of drivers that encourage road safety.

[LaMotta]

Disgrace :faf: There are no default minimum speed limits on motorways or dual carriageways. There are some laws however that govern what types of vehicles can travel on motorways, motorbikes and scooters under 50cc are one example. These vehicles are restricted to 30mph which would suggest that 31mph is acceptable.

Oh look, more drivel from your gut. The laws don't allow a scooter under 50cc to drive on a 70mph dual carriageway or a motorway - source the highway code.


People who drive at 45mph on a two lane motorway are an absolute pain in the jacksie and effectively reduce a two lane carriageway into a single lane for the majority as everyone has to funnel into a single lane to pass them. People who are prepared to spend dozens of posts defending them are almost certainly people I don't want to be anywhere near on the roads.

Absolutely. Very worrying.

[Rocky]

Same can be said for any speed under 70. And likewise, people who get upset by grandad on Sunday taking his car for a spin and aren't capable of accepting that not all road users are of equal mental and physical capabilities are not the kind of drivers that encourage road safety.

People who don't have the mental or physical faculties to make good progress on a straight road with no pedestrians, T junctions or any of the other complexities and risk factors of normal roads should absolutely not be driving at all.

[Hibrandenburg]

You've posted that much irrelevant nonsense on this thread, it was quite easy to miss.



We can't know for sure if there is a valid reason I agree, but there really is very little reason for driving at low speeds, so I don't think giving the benefit of the doubt to the driver is sensible. Either way, the crux of this entire argument is that earlier you indicated that people should be able to drive within the limit at whatever speed they like based on their driving capabilities. Do you stand by that view? If you do, I'm worried.

If you think that anyone who feels uncomfortable driving at 70 is a menace then that's worrying. Do you think that senior citizens who don't feel comfortable with driver at 70 should either be forced to or have their licence revoked?

[Rocky]

If you think that anyone who feels uncomfortable driving at 70 is a menace then that's worrying. Do you think that senior citizens who don't feel comfortable with driver at 70 should either be forced to or have their licence revoked?

Yes

[Hibrandenburg]

People who don't have the mental or physical faculties to make good progress on a straight road with no pedestrians, T junctions or any of the other complexities and risk factors of normal roads should absolutely not be driving at all.

So if some drivers don't feel comfortable driving at the MAXIMUM speed limit of 70, you think they should have their license revoked?

[Hibrandenburg]

Yes

Well that's disturbing.

[Rocky]

So if some drivers don't feel comfortable driving at the MAXIMUM speed limit of 70, you think they should have their license revoked?

Yup. Motorways are the simplest roads in the country, if you can't manage one of those I don't want you driving past my kids school at 20mph either.

[LaMotta]

People who don't have the mental or physical faculties to make good progress on a straight road with no pedestrians, T junctions or any of the other complexities and risk factors of normal roads should absolutely not be driving at all.

Correct.


If you think that anyone who feels uncomfortable driving at 70 is a menace then that's worrying. Do you think that senior citizens who don't feel comfortable with driver at 70 should either be forced to or have their licence revoked?

Your analysis skills are woeful if that's the conclusion you've come to about my views. Not surprising given your interpretation of the situation in general. If someone feels more comfortable driving at 60 or 65 in a 70, then no problem at all.

On your second question its funny you ask that, because I was responsible for ensuring that my Dad's licence was revoked 2 years ago when he was 73, basically cause he was a danger to others on the road. He has now been diagnosed with Alzheimer's so his erratic driving had an explanation. He was devastated, but it was necessary. If you are suggesting you wouldn't do the same thing then shame on you.

[Hibrandenburg]

Yup. Motorways are the simplest roads in the country, if you can't manage one of those I don't want you driving past my kids school at 20mph either.

2 different kettles of fish.

[Rocky]

2 different kettles of fish.

No, they're not. You're talking about people not having the mental or physical faculties to drive on an entirely straight road. I'm saying if that's the case they should be nowhere near a situation where little kids could dash out in front of them as they clearly wouldn't have the capability to react.

[lapsedhibee]

If you think that anyone who feels uncomfortable driving at 70 is a menace then that's worrying. Do you think that senior citizens who don't feel comfortable with driver at 70 should either be forced to or have their licence revoked?

I'm a senior citizen and after reading this thread if I catch my speedo dipping below 60 at all on the M9 tomorrow I'm going to admit I'm a disgrace and hand in my licence the day after.

[LaMotta]

I'm a senior citizen and after reading this thread if I catch my speedo dipping below 60 at all on the M9 tomorrow I'm going to admit I'm a disgrace and hand in my licence the day after.

No-one is saying that though. If you are driving at 45mph for the sake of it on the M9 , then that is wrong and it wouldn't matter what age you are. :wink:

[Hibrandenburg]

People who don't have the mental or physical faculties to make good progress on a straight road with no pedestrians, T junctions or any of the other complexities and risk factors of normal roads should absolutely not be driving at all.

You can make good progress at 45-50 mph. What you're basically saying is that 70 should not only be maximum speed limit but also minimum, that's mental.

[Rocky]

I'm a senior citizen and after reading this thread if I catch my speedo dipping below 60 at all on the M9 tomorrow I'm going to admit I'm a disgrace and hand in my licence the day after.

To be clear I've never mentioned elderly or senior citizens. I was responding to a point about people who are physically or mentally incapable of making good progress on a motorway. I'm perfectly comfortable with folk choosing to drive at 60 as long as it's not their lack of physical or mental faculties that's limiting them. I'm not comfortable with folk driving at 45mph as that's a massive inconvenience to other road users.

[Rocky]

You can make good progress at 45-50 mph. What you're basically saying is that 70 should not only be maximum speed limit but also minimum, that's mental.

I think you'll find that the police would absolutely not consider 45mph to be "making good progress" on a motorway in normal conditions. Having attended a Bikesafe course with police motorcyclists I can attest to that. Incidentally neither would an advanced driving instructor.

[LaMotta]

I think you'll find that the police would absolutely not consider 45mph to be "making good progress" on a motorway in normal conditions. Having attended a Bikesafe course with police motorcyclists I can attest to that. Incidentally neither would an advanced driving instructor.

You shouldn't have posted that. He won't believe your anecdotal evidence.:wink:

[Rocky]

No-one is saying that though. If you are driving at 45mph for the sake of it on the M9 , then that is wrong and it wouldn't matter what age you are. :wink:

As anybody who drives the M9 regularly knows, getting one of those cranes from Falkirk on the road up ahead creates a huge tailback as two lanes have to merge into one. 45mph drivers aren't much better. 60+ is fine as the two lanes then stay pretty well balanced so traffic throughput is maintained.

[Future17]

If a two (or more) lane road is even moderately busy, driving at an unusually low speed is a hazard. I don't think that's arguable.

If witnessed over a relatively short period by the police, the driver would be pulled over and likely fined.

[Hibrandenburg]

No, they're not. You're talking about people not having the mental or physical faculties to drive on an entirely straight road. I'm saying if that's the case they should be nowhere near a situation where little kids could dash out in front of them as they clearly wouldn't have the capability to react.

No I'm not, I'm talking about people having the choice to drive at the speed they feel comfortable with within limits. Driving at 70 gives you a breaking distance of about 126m, at 20 that would be about 10.2m. That's definitely 2 different kettles of fish.

[Rocky]

You shouldn't have posted that. He won't believe your anecdotal evidence.:wink:

To be fair, those guys were pretty clear that the speed limit was a target and could be exceeded when safe! The phrase "make good progress" was used a lot.

[Rocky]

No I'm not, I'm talking about people having the choice to drive at the speed they feel comfortable with within limits. Driving at 70 gives you a breaking distance of about 126m, at 20 that would be about 10.2m. That's definitely 2 different kettles of fish.
You literally posted about mental and physical capabilities. If a driver lacks the physical and mental capabilities to be safe on a motorway they're unsafe anywhere else too.

[LaMotta]

As anybody who drives the M9 regularly knows, getting one of those cranes from Falkirk on the road up ahead creates a huge tailback as two lanes have to merge into one. 45mph drivers aren't much better. 60+ is fine as the two lanes then stay pretty well balanced so traffic throughput is maintained.


To be fair, those guys were pretty clear that the speed limit was a target and could be exceeded when safe! The phrase "make good progress" was used a lot.

I'm genuinely relived that we are now getting some common sense on this issue.:banana:


If a two (or more) lane road is even moderately busy, driving at an unusually low speed is a hazard. I don't think that's arguable.

If witnessed over a relatively short period by the police, the driver would be pulled over and likely fined.

And more common sense. Although with the bit in bold it seems that some people do think its arguable:dizzy:

[Rocky]

If a two (or more) lane road is even moderately busy, driving at an unusually low speed is a hazard. I don't think that's arguable.

If witnessed over a relatively short period by the police, the driver would be pulled over and likely fined.
It would appear from the last several pages of this thread that it's very much arguable if you're so inclined.

[Hibrandenburg]

If a two (or more) lane road is even moderately busy, driving at an unusually low speed is a hazard. I don't think that's arguable.

If witnessed over a relatively short period by the police, the driver would be pulled over and likely fined.

Nobody is saying it isn't an inconvenience or even a hazard , it's just not the hazard it's being blown up to be by some and can be easily neutralised by careful and considerate driving.

[Hibrandenburg]

To be fair, those guys were pretty clear that the speed limit was a target and could be exceeded when safe! The phrase "make good progress" was used a lot.

That's utter bollocks, try getting out of a speeding fine by saying it was safe.

[Rocky]

Nobody is saying it isn't an inconvenience or even a hazard , it's just not the hazard it's being blown up to be by some and can be easily neutralised by careful and considerate driving.

Lolz at me neutralising the next mile long tailback I'm in by simply driving carefully and considerately. Can't wait to try it and watch the cars in front simply evaporate.

[LaMotta]

Nobody is saying it isn't an inconvenience or even a hazard , it's just not the hazard it's being blown up to be by some and can be easily neutralised by careful and considerate driving.

You actually stated that, quote, "people should be able to drive within the speed limit according to their personal capabilities". If you are now saying it is an inconvenience an hazard to others to drive at whatever speed they like below the limit, I'm sure you'll retract your previous statement.

[Hibrandenburg]

You literally posted about mental and physical capabilities. If a driver lacks the physical and mental capabilities to be safe on a motorway they're unsafe anywhere else too.

That was an example of why some drivers might not feel comfortable driving at 70, doesn't mean they can't.

[Rocky]

That's utter bollocks, try getting out of a speeding fine by saying it was safe.

Jesus wept you're now telling me that me quoting the words that came directly from a police motorcyclists in a bikesafe course full of people who are literally there to learn to keep themselves safe on the road is bollocks?

[Rocky]

That was an example of why some drivers might not feel comfortable driving at 70, doesn't mean they can't.

In all honesty if your driving is as erratic as your arguments on this thread it might not be a bad idea to pop down to the police station and hand in your licence.

[Hibrandenburg]

You actually stated that, quote, "people should be able to drive within the speed limit according to their personal capabilities". If you are now saying it is an inconvenience an hazard to others to drive at whatever speed they like below the limit, I'm sure you'll retract your previous statement.




I don't think I did.